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Lost Reviews and News

Key Points from "Every Man for Himself"

Season 3, Episode 4
Episode Air Date: 10/25/06

Point 1
Sawyer

Kate

Ben

Pickett
Something about last week's episode didn't sit right with me, and I finally figured out what it was: The mythology was missing.

Don't get me wrong. There were aspects of last week's Locke-centric episode I enjoyed, and there was plenty of table-setting for something interesting to come, but the slack-jawed wonder I'm so accustomed to experiencing with this show wasn't there. We just didn't have that "WHOA!" moment.

But this week, the "Whoa" returns. The story returns to DharmaWorld, and as it does, the mystery of the Others, the Dharma Initiative and the island (or should that be plural? ...) comes back into focus.

So let's get to it!

As the episode opens, Kate and Sawyer are still stuck in their bear cages. Kate continues to wear the same sun dress, but the long day of manual labor we witnessed in "The Glass Ballerina" has left both Kate and the dress a little ripe. Sawyer also looks like hell, but that's mostly due to the beat-down he received at the hands of Danny Pickett and his merry band of Others in the same episode.

As a new day dawns, karma swoops down and hands Sawyer a gift. Sawyer and Kate watch as Others suddenly appear and scramble down a nearby path. The hub-bub is odd for the Others -- their creepy calm is their stock in trade. But on this occasion, panic is tangible.

And with good reason. Sawyer and Kate watch as Ben, Juliet, Zeke and a number of other Others (my spell check is gonna love that phrasing) emerge from the treeline carrying Colleen on a stretcher. Colleen, you'll recall, was last seen on the receiving end of Sun's gun in "The Glass Ballerina." Alas, the last few hours haven't been good ones for Colleen. As she and her Other cronies arrive back at Dharma Central, Colleen's life is dangling by a thread.

The Other crew haul Colleen between Kate and Sawyer's cages, and as they zip by, Sawyer can hardly contain his enthusiasm. Kate notices Sawyer's schadenfreude smirk and she seems stunned by his total lack of compassion. What Kate doesn't realize is that Sawyer has more than revenge on his mind.

Sawyer figures that Colleen's pain represents his gain. He correctly guesses that Colleen's sucking gut wound will distract the Others, which gives him time to lay a trap and stage an escape.

And it just so happens that he's already developed an exit strategy. With the Others safely out of view (but not out of sight -- remember, we've already learned that the Others are monitoring Sawyer and Kate through closed-circuit cameras), Sawyer takes this opportunity to tell Kate -- and us -- his Master Plan.

It goes something like this:

  1. Redirect the water hose in his bear cage, thereby forcing the water to pool in a nice deep puddle in the area just outside his cell.
  2. Wait for an unsuspecting Other to step into the puddle.
  3. Grab the Other -- preferably on an arm or neck or less meaty area -- and, in one swift motion, pound on his cell's reward button until the previously seen electric current arcs through Sawyer's flesh and, by extension, the flesh of the unsuspecting Other.
  4. Render the now-shocked Other useless and grab the Others' keys. (Bonus: Kick the Other while he/she is down.)
  5. Unlock the cell, bestow a smart-assed nickname on the Other victim, get sugar from Kate, run back to camp, live out the remainder of his days as a housewares salesman at S-Mart.

Like most of Sawyer's plans, there's a few grey areas with the Shock Scheme. The plan assumes that Sawyer will be able to both withstand the electric shock and recover faster than the Other victim (Sawyer tells Kate that his previous experience with the shock leads him to believe he can "take it"). Even if we give Sawyer the benefit of the doubt with the shock, there's still one massive assumption he's making -- and it's an assumption that has no basis in reality. Sawyer's plan requires the Others to act like complete morons. As we've discovered, idiocy isn't part of the Other oeuvre.

You can probably see where this is going.

Sometime later, Sawyer's eyes light up as he sees Ben approach his cage. The armed Others who typically flit through the background are nowhere to be seen. Sawyer can't believe his luck. He's seconds away from barbecuing the big dog!

Ben, dressed in white slacks and carrying the anal-retentive air of a 10th grade English teacher, doesn't bother with a greeting or other social formalities. Instead, he fires two random questions at Sawyer:

  1. How much does he weigh? (Sawyer, after crinkling his brow in confusion, eventually says he tips the scales at "180, give or take").
  2. How old is he? (Sawyer initially says 32, but when pressed on the issue admits he's 35).

As Sawyer answers Ben's random questions (perhaps confusing Ben Linus with Ben Stein), he sees Ben step into the puddle outside the bear cage. Ben rests his hand on the bars of the cage.

Sawyer snares Ben's hand and pins it against the bars! Moving with the dexterity of a 32-year-old, he spins and pounds the reward button on the other side of the cell.

SUCK IT BEN! ... SUCK IT! ... Uhh ... oh ... crap ...

Nothing happens! Ben was on to the plan from the start (damn those hidden cameras!) and he made sure the shocker was turned off before he ventured out for his visit.

Sawyer, confused, twists Ben's arm into the cell (for a second it looked like he broke it, but no such luck), but Ben is a sly Other and he cracks Sawyer across the face with a telescopic baton. Sawyer drops and Ben whips the cell door open.

For a little guy, Ben certainly knows how to kick ass. He blasts Sawyer with a series of well-placed shots across the back and abdomen and then, just as Sawyer collapses on the ground, he sends our burly con-man into unconsciousness with a swift kick across the chin. Sawyer goes down like Glass Joe.

Things get much worse when Sawyer wakes up. As he groggily comes-to, he hears the grumbling voice of Zeke telling someone that the Others' communication equipment has been screwy for the last two days, "ever since the sky turned purple." Sawyer hears all this, but he's in no state to join the conversation. As he opens his eyes he sees that he's been strapped to a long, metal table (it looks similar to the table in Jack's aquarium cell). Heavy leather restraints hold Sawyer's arms against the table.

Sawyer, wide-eyed and wigged out, scans the room and sees Zeke and Ben standing in the far corner. Two armed Other henchmen line opposite walls. Ben orders the henchmen to approach Sawyer, and both comply. One slaps a slick piece of bamboo between Sawyer's teeth -- "It's for the pain," Ben explains -- and the second Other produces a comically huge syringe (the needle on this thing is at least four inches long). Sawyer senses imminent pain ... and he's right. The Other with the needle raises the syringe and prepares to slam it into Sawyer's heart (this whole thing is a big homage to "Pulp Fiction"). In itself a four-inch needle is a frightening prospect, but when the guy holding the syringe seems unsure of his ability to "land" that syringe, the situation reaches horror-film heights.

WHACK! The syringe digs into Sawyer's chest!

Sawyer loses consciousness (again).

He wakes sometime later (judging by the timeline of this episode, he's out for maybe an hour or two). The restraints are still wrapped around Sawyer's arms and he's still pinned to the metal table. Ben is standing in the room, holding a metal cage that contains a fluffy white bunny (seriously ... this really happens). Ben steps over Sawyer and begins to vigorously shake the bunny cage, all the while shouting "C'mon, c'mon! We've gotta go! C'mon!"

The panic and confusion etched into Sawyer's face mimic our own. When did this become "A Clockwork Orange"?

Ben's cage-shaking grows violent. "C'MON! C'MON!" he screams at the bunny. The bunny twitches and moves around the cage (as it moves, we see that it has the number "8" painted/branded on its backside, begging the question: are bunnies 4, 15, 16, 23 and 42 back in the Dharma Hutch?). Sawyer's eyes bulge! The bunny's eyes bulge!

"C'MON C'MON C'MON!" Ben yells.

And that's when the bunny shuffles off its mortal coil, runs down the curtain and joins the choir invisible! It is ... an ex-bunny!

Sawyer is shocked. He might be a callous con-man who would steal an orphan's last nickel, but dammit, that was a bunny and killing bunnies just ain't right.

Ben looks at Sawyer with his placid evil glare (can anyone do "dead eye evil" better than Michael Emerson?). Sawyer's day is about to get so much worse.

He tells Sawyer that the bunny was implanted with a pacemaker, and when the bunny's heart rate reached a certain level (such as the 2.5 billion beats per minute it just experienced), the pacemaker stops and the bunny's heart explodes -- hence, dead bunny. And it just so happens that the exact same scenario has been cooked up for Sawyer. Using the weight and age information Sawyer provided earlier, Ben says the Others assembled a witch's brew for Sawyer's chest. Now, if Sawyer's heart-rate cracks 140, Sawyer's fate will mirror the bunny: his heart will pop in his chest cavity. Ew.

As Ben talks, he straps a heart-rate watch around Sawyer's wrist. The monitor, Ben says, will beep whenever Sawyer's heart rate gets within 15 clicks of 140. When that happens -- say, during an escape attempt or while looking at Kate's naked backside (sorry, getting ahead of myself) -- Sawyer needs to calm himself less his heart burst into bits.

But Ben's got one last bit of information to pass along -- and it's a kicker. He tells Sawyer that if Sawyer breathes a word of this pacemaker business to Kate, "we'll put one in her, too."

Oh you bastards. You deliciously evil bastards.

Sawyer drops his head against the metal table and sneers like a caged bobcat ... with a pacemaker planted in its chest.

Later in the day, the Others unstrap Sawyer and toss him back in his cage. Zeke props a bucket of soapy water in both cages and drops a bag of clothes near Kate's feet. (Sidenote: Zeke seems to have a soft spot for Katie -- he tells her that if any of the clothes don't fit, she should "give a holler" and Zeke'll come running). When Zeke and his Other drones leave, Kate blasts Sawyer with questions: Where were you? What did they do to you? Where'd you get that sweet watch?

With Ben's warning ringing in his ears, Sawyer deflects Kate's questions with non-answers ("Nowhere," "Nuthin'"). Seeing that her inquisition is useless, Kate opts to change out of the stanky dress she's been wearing for two days. She instructs Sawyer to turn around so she can disrobe.

Sawyer momentarily complies, but as Kate strips down in the background, Sawyer cocks his head and catches a glimpse of Kate's bare back.

Beep .... Beep ... Beep ...

Sawyer looks at the heart-rate watch. He just crossed 125. He looks back at Kate and continues to ogle her goods (there's a lot of Kate-ogling going on this season).

Beep ... Beep ... Beep ... As he stares, Sawyer imagines doing Very Bad Things ... BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEPBEEPBEEP! He's gonna blow!

Kate hears the beeping and spins. Sawyer looks away. He grabs the nearby bucket of water and douses his head and face.

BEEP ... beep ....... beep ....... beep

His heart rate settles.

Later in the day -- after Kate has donned a far more practical outfit (she's finally wearing shoes) -- Kate tells Sawyer that she's been studying the layout of her cell and she believes she can squeeze herself through two bars in the roof. Sawyer, normally an enthusiastic supporter of escape attempts, tells Kate that escape is a stupid idea. He suggests they keep a low profile and "get the lay of the land." Kate suggests he stop being such a ninny.

Despite her protestations, Kate opts to couch the escape attempt ... for the moment. Shortly thereafter, an ear-piercing horn blasts a deep, guttural siren near Kate and Sawyer's cages. The two prisoners spin, trying to make sense of the alarm. Kate sees a group of Others rushing nearby. Kate's eyes pop as she sees a tall man in the center of the group wearing a blindfold/bag over his head.

"Jack!" she shouts. "Jack!"

Sawyer joins the chorus. "Doc! Doc!"

But Jack's hearing is dulled by the massive siren. At one point he turns his head in recognition, but before he can respond, the Others push him forward, out of range of Kate and Sawyer's cries.

The siren cuts and the prisoner area falls silent. But not for long. A few minutes later, Danny Pickett strides up to Sawyer's cage and unlocks the cell door. Pickett is churning with rage. To make it worse, Sawyer has no idea why Pickett is so pissed (we know, but we'll get to that in a minute).

Pickett throws Sawyer to the ground, then tosses him from the cell and slams him against Kate's cage.

BLAM! Pickett whips his fist across Sawyer's face.

"Do you love this guy?" Pickett snarls at Kate.

Pickett's random question and random act of violence confuse Kate. She doesn't answer.

BLAM! Another punch pierces Sawyer's mug.

"DO YOU LOVE HIM!?" Pickett screams.

Sawyer's watch begins to beep.

Tears form in Kate's eyes. She throws her arms through the bars and tries to cradle Sawyer.

BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Pickett's fury intensifies. Sawyer's watch beeps faster.

"Do ... YOU ... LOVE ... HIM!" Pickett yells again.

Sensing that an answer is the only want to stop Pickett's March to the Sea, she shouts, "Yes! Yes I love him!"

Pickett steps back. His rage passes. He speaks to unseen Dharma drones and orders them to toss Sawyer back into his cell. Pickett walks off to grab a beer and watch the game at Alvar Hanso's Bar & Grill.

Kate is officially fed up. Jack's Abu Ghraib appearance coupled with Pickett's unexplained beat-down have convinced her it's time to blow this popstand. With squirrel-like skill, she shimmies up her cage, grasps onto the bars lining the roof, and POPS OUT THE TOP.

I need to pause a moment to discuss just how ridiculous this is. Kate doesn't struggle through the bars. She POPS THROUGH THEM. This isn't an escape, it's an exit. If she could do this so easily, why didn't she try it before?

Anyway, Kate zips out the top of the cage and climbs back to the ground. She grabs a rock and tries to break the lock on Sawyer's cage, but as she does Sawyer pleads with her to run. "Every man for himself," Sawyer snarls. "Run!"

Kate won't hear it. She slams the rock against the lock over and over, but the bolt holds.

Sawyer tries a different approach. "If you really love me," he says, looking into Kate's eyes, "Go."

Kate clamps her jaw. "I only said that so he'd stop hitting you," she says.

OH C'MON KATE! You don't have to tell him that! The guy's had his ass kicked twice in the last 10 hours and now you've gotta deliver the death blow?

Sawyer looks down and turns away. Kate drops the rock and steps into the dirt area between the two cells. She weighs her options: escape alone or return to her cell ...

Kate scrambles up her cage and slips back through the GAPING HOLE in the roof. As she lands within the cell, Sawyer barks: "Dammit freckles, it's every man for himself!"

Kate looks at Sawyer. Evangeline Lilly can't believe she's about to utter the dumbest line in series history.

"Live together, die alone," Kate says, referring to the title of the season two finale.

"Oh yeah?" Sawyer challenges, instigating an epic Episode Title battle. "Well, Everybody Hates Hugo! Ha!"

"House of the Rising Sun! Three Minutes!" Kate retorts

"White Rabbit! Lockdown! What ... Kate ... Did!" Sawyer shoots back.

Okay. Enough of that. You get the idea.

Let's now cleanse ourselves of this unfortunate scene with a little backstory ...

CUE BACKSTORY SWOOSH

Sawyer gets the backstory spotlight this week. Like other long-time characters, the historical milestones in Sawyer's life don't have the punch they once did (there are only so many "shocking coincidences" we can experience), but the "Lost" crew does unload one major curveball that no one expected.

In this week's backstory we see/learn:

  • When we first catch up with Sawyer, he's been incarcerated in prison for nine months. During this time, Sawyer has developed a social short-hand with fellow prisoners and a deep hatred for the corrupt warden.

  • Sawyer's incarceration came at the hands of Cassie, the woman he hoodwinked in "The Long Con." We'll have more on Cassie in a moment.

  • The backstory's primary storyline focuses on Sawyer's burgeoning relationship with a new convict, a man named Munson. Dubbed "Costanza" by Sawyer, the bald, pudgy Munson supposedly bilked the government of $10 million -- and scuttlebutt amongst the prisoners suggests the money remains at large.
  • Sawyer wastes no time telling Munson the warden is gunning for the missing $10 million. Sawyer lays out the whole plan: the warden will butter Munson up with protection and easy work duty, then he'll get cozy with Munson's wife and turn her against him. Lickety split, $10 million will soon be in the warden's bank account.

    Munson, suspicious of Sawyer's motivation, asks Sawyer why he's cluing him in to the warden's con. Sawyer convincingly says he hates the warden and would sooner die than watch his adversary swim in newfound riches. Munson buys the excuse. SUCKA!

  • Sometime later, Cassie pays Sawyer a visit in prison. It's the first time Sawyer's long-con target has dropped in, but Cassie certainly knows how to make a memorable visit. For starters, she comes to prison with her hair coiffed in her omni-present femullet and her body crammed into a revealing sundress (cleavage and prison: the perfect pair). Ahhh, but her "presented goods" are merely a prelude to the 5-ton, high-grade nuclear warhead she's about to unload.

    Cassie reaches into her purse and slides a picture of an infant across the table.

    Sawyer feigns confusion, but he knows exactly what he's just been shown.

    Sawyer, this is Clementine. This is your daughter.

    Sawyer explodes. He knows full well he is not father material, and he drives this point home to Cassie by diavowing any knowledge of Cassie or Clementine or anything to do with parenthood. He storms out of the vistor's room. Cassie responds with an unconscious flip of her femullet.

  • Shortly after the Clementine Incident, Munson seeks out Sawyer. He finds Sawyer curled up with the latest selection in Sawyer's Book Club -- "Of Mice and Men" (all this detail is relevant, so stick with me).

    Munson is distraught. His wife is turning against him, just as Sawyer warned, and Munson wants to take steps to protect his $10 million heist. He asks Sawyer for help "moving it," and at first Sawyer is reluctant. But Munson plays to Sawyer's hatred for the warden and Sawyer agrees to help.

    Munson. You're an idiot.

  • In the final backstory segment, Sawyer is escorted into the prison gymansium. The room is empty save for the warden and a platoon of treasury officers.

    Ladies and gentleman, please take your seats. The con is about to conclude.

    The lead treasury cop asks Sawyer where Munson's money is hidden. Without missing a beat, Sawyer spills the beans: "The $10 million is in a red bronco parked in a Stor-Quik facility in Sawgrass. Right off 441. Unit 23C. That's where your money is."

    The warden tells Sawyer that his cooperation just bought his freedom, and, as a bonus, Sawyer's going to land a "commision" from the $10 million. Sawyer instructs the treasury officer to put his cut into an untraceable savings account in Albuquerque, New Mexico under the name "Clementine Phillips."

    The treasury officer tosses Sawyer a "World's Best Dad" mug and with that, the backstory ends.

Returning to island events ...

In the closing moments of this episode, Ben pays an early-morning visit to Sawyer in his cell and invites our bloodied and beaten con-man out for a walk.

Of course, Ben's idea of a walk is a 5-mile hike over mountainous terrain, which is perfect for a guy who's heart rate needs to remain below 140. So Ben and Sawyer head into the hinterlands with two armed Dharma drones in tow. Toward the end of the journey, Ben -- ever the drama queen -- pauses to build Sawyer's anticipation. He tells Sawyer he brought him all this way because there's "something I want you to see."

Sawyer responds by quoting "Of Mice and Men" (See? I told you it'd be relevant): "Is it that little place you've always wanted, George?"

Ben doesn't recognize the quote. Sawyer relishes the opportunity to tweak Ben for his seemingly illiterate ways. "It's from 'Of Mice and Men,'" Sawyer smirks. "You'd like it. Puppies get killed."

Point, Sawyer!

Unfortunately, the victory is short-lived. This exchange takes place as the group hikes a particularly steep hill, and as Sawyer pants, his heart rate watch starts to beep. Sawyer touches his chest. He asks Ben if he's brought him into the hills to make his heart explode from the exertion.

And this is when Ben regains the upper hand. "Your heart's not going to blow up, James," Ben snarls. "The only thing we put inside you was doubt."

Sawyer is stunned.

But Ben has more surprises. He reaches into a bag slung across his shoulder and pulls out the dead bunny, which, judging by its twitching and blinking, has staged a dramatic resurrection. Ben tells Sawyer the bunny was sedated, not killed.

Ben turns to put the bunny back in his sack.

THWACK!

Sawyer lands a wicked hook across Ben's jaw. Ben spins, but holds his ground. A trickle of blood seeps from his mouth.

"The rabbit wasn't the thing I wanted to show you," Ben says, massaging his jaw.

Ben guides Sawyer to the crest of a nearby hill. As he looks out across the water, Sawyer's mouth drops.

The shot spins ... and there, not far off-shore ... IS ANOTHER ISLAND!

And it's not just a random island, it's The Island. Sawyer, Jack and Kate are prisoners on an adjacent land mass; they're not even on the same island as the other castaways!

Ben tells Sawyer that the island they're on -- the Others' island -- is roughly twice the size of Alcatraz. And like, Alcatraz, escape is futile: you'd have to be a champion swimmer to even think of crossing the gash of ocean between the two islands.

Sawyer is floored. He asks Ben if they orchestrated all this -- the work, the pacemaker, all of it -- just to keep him in a cage.

"We did all this because the only way to gain a con man's respect is to con him," Ben says. "You're pretty good, Sawyer ... we're a lot better."

And at this point, Ben suddenly morphs into Dr. Phil (it's a credit to Michael Emerson that this next bit doesn't come across as complete nonsense). Ben points out that it wasn't the pacemaker that kept Sawyer in line, it was the threat toward Kate. Drawing upon previously unknown reservoirs of relationship training, Dr. Ben tells Sawyer that his attempts at making Kate believe he doesn't need her are clearly an attempt to veil his own deep feelings.

"A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody," Ben says.

Sawyer is confused by Ben's sudden regression into Twain-like vocabulary.

"It don't make no difference who the guy is, long as he's with you" Ben continues, summoning his best summer stock inflection. "I tell you ... I tell you a guy gets too lonely and he gets sick."

"What the hell you talking about?" Sawyer growls.

Ben juts his chin toward Sawyer. He was hoping he'd ask that.

"It's from 'Of Mice and Men'," Ben says, brimming with self-righteousness. "Don't you read?"

Sawyer drops his head.

Point, Ben!

And with that, Sawyer's plotline ends.

Point 2
Jack

Juliet

Ben

Colleen

Tom

For the first time in ages, Jack doesn't act like an asshole. We finally catch a glimpse of the confident leader we saw way back in Season 1. Thank God. Whiny Jack is a bore.

Of course, it takes a while before Jack returns to his former self. There's a slow build-up throughout the episode toward Jack's triumphant return.

Here's how it plays out:

The episode opens with Jack diligently obeying Juliet's instructions. She knocks, he sits against the wall of his aquarium cell, she comes in with food, they both revel in their underlying attraction, blah, blah, blah.

But on this particular day, Jack feels a little saucy, so he opts to challenge Juliet's standing in the Other community. Jack wants to know why he's holed up in this cell, and if Juliet can't give him answers, he wants to talk to Ben.

Nice move, Jack!

The mention of Ben's name momentarily stuns Juliet. Jack sees the chink in her armor, so he aims right for it.

"Should I talk to Benjamin? 'Cause I'm starting to think you're just the person who brings me my food," Jack says.

Ohhhhh, Juliet is pissed now!

Juliet composes herself. She tells Jack he can talk to Ben as much as he likes, but Ben won't tell him anything.

Jack doesn't back down. "You work for him," Jack says, digging the dagger deeper.

Juliet bristles at the notion that Ben is her boss. She tells Jack it doesn't "work that way ... we make decisions together."

And here's where Jack starts to get his mojo back.

Summoning all of his smarmy skill, Jack notes that when he was gouging a shard of broken plate into Juliet's jugular, Ben seemed all too happy to let her die. "It felt like he made that decision on his own," Jack says, his eyes full of mock sincerity.

Juliet's face stays still, but her Impenetrable Wall of Calm has weakened. Fortunately for her, Ben suddenly appears at the door.

He marches in and says he needs Juliet immediately. Juliet, still smarting from Jack's comment, tries to exert power by tossing Ben off. But Ben's got no time for relationship nonsense.

"The sub is back," he says, leaning in so Jack can't hear. "We have a situation."

WHOA! WHAT? SUB?! The Others have a submarine?

Ben and Juliet race from the room and slam the door behind them. Jack momentarily morphs into an adolescent girl and rushes to the door to eavesdrop on the arguing adults.

Unfortunately, the door is three-inches thick, so Jack fails to learn anything more about this sub business. For the time being, he's forced to cool his heels in his aquarium cell.

During the middle portions of this episode, there are two moments when the storyline quickly shifts to Jack as he rests in the cell. Both moments are important.

In the first instance, the supposedly broken intercom near the door of Jack's cell crackles to life and, for a few seconds, Jack can hear the sound of a man struggling. The man is Sawyer, and the sound is him straining against the Others, trying to avoid the four-inch needle hovering above his chest. Jack listens intently, but the intercom cuts out.

In the second instance, the intercom sparks to life and Jack rushes to listen. Thanks to the glory of closed captioning, we know exactly what Jack hears:

Man's Voice: "... under control."

Second Man's Voice (I think): "Yeah? You know what he's doing to Karl? You know what he's doing? It was a mistake bringing those two here."

Jack's listening session is cut short by Juliet's entrance. She rushes into the adjacent room and approaches the Plexiglass divider. Jack sees that she's wearing a blood-stained hospital smock. He asks if that's Sawyer's blood (he recognized Sawyer's voice from the intercom), but Juliet says it's from a woman -- it's Colleen's -- and if Jack doesn't help, Colleen is gonna bite it.

Here's the weird thing about this scene: Jack has just been placed in a power position, but he doesn't take advantage of it. Juliet pleads with him to help and Jack doesn't even take a moment to consider the options. Why didn't he bargain? Why didn't make a demand, like, say, "release my friends"? I don't get it.

So, Jack agrees to help. His head is covered with a blindfold bag and he's led outside (this is when Kate and Sawyer see him). Juliet guides him toward a nearby medical station. Ben, Pickett and Zeke are all inside, and all three are shocked at Jack's unexpected entrance. Juliet tosses off their questions, insisting that Jack's expertise is needed to save Colleen.

With the blindfold off, Jack snaps into Doctor Mode. He's taken into a washroom and he instinctually scrubs his hands and arms in preparation for surgery. Juliet also scrubs up (it's becoming clear she's a doctor). As Jack washes, he spots a series of spinal x-rays on a nearby wall. Juliet beckons Jack toward the operating room, but Jack pauses to get a good long look at those x-rays.

Inside the OR, Jack takes command. He deftly clamps and positions and does his doctor stuff, all the while telling Juliet what to get and where to apply pressure. Their roles have been reversed: Jack's confidence soars as Juliet stumbles. She tells Jack she's not a surgeon. Having seen her in action, Jack is already aware of Juliet's skill set (or lack thereof).

Suddenly, Colleen's heart flatlines (maybe she needs a pacemaker ...). Jack calls for paddles, but Juliet says they're broken. "We've never had anything happen," she whines. Jack tries to pump Colleen's heart back to life, but his efforts are for naught (thankfully, Jack doesn't stage one of those "Live, damn you, live!" scenes; he simply pumps a few times then backs off). Jack strips his gloves. Colleen is toast.

In an observation room perched above the OR, Ben, Zeke and Pickett watch as Colleen's soul floats up to Dharma Heaven. Pickett (whom Colleen was involved with), goes apeshit. He wants blood ... and he soon gets it courtesy of Sawyer (Colleen's death catalyzes Pickett to beat the crap out of Sawyer in the "Do you love him?" scene).

In Pickett's mind, Colleen's death was a senseless tragedy, but for us, it's a vital event that leads to an important scene between Jack and Juliet.

At some point following Colleen's demise, the Others handcuffed Jack to the gurney holding Colleen's dead body (nice). Juliet eventually returns to the OR, and, for the first time, we get a long look behind her Impenetrable Wall of Calm. Colleen's death shook Juliet, and seeing Jack chained to the gurney inspires a moment of regret.

Juliet tells Jack that she's a fertility doctor (hence the medical training), and, as such, she's not used to being around death. Juliet feels guilty about Colleen's death, but Jack, still in Alpha Doctor mode, tells her there's nothing more that could have been done. Juliet mistakenly interprets this as Jack trying to make her feel better, but Jack makes it abundantly clear he has no concern about Juliet's feelings; he's just telling it like it is. (Lie. Jack digs her, especially now the he knows she's a fellow doctor and together they could breed lil' surgeons and fertility specialists).

Juliet calmly moves to remove Jack's handcuffs, but as she approaches, Jack grips her wrist. It's not a violent move, but it's not gentle, either.

And this, my friends, is one of Jack's finest moments.

Jack pierces Juliet's eyes. He tells her that the x-ray in the washroom shows the spine of a 40 year-old man.

"Whoever he is, he has a large tumor on his L-4 vertebrae," Jack pauses -- this is where it gets good! "And I just happen to be a spinal surgeon. So you tell me, Juliet, who am I here to save?"

YEAAAAAH! Jack's back baby!

Point 3
Desmond

Claire

Charlie

Hurley

Paulo
Desmond is going to freak a lot of people out in the coming episodes. Last week, he blew Hurley's mind with an off-hand mention of a future event (Locke's speech) and this week, he extends his Circle of Freakatude to Charlie and Claire.

Early in the episode, Desmond strides up to Claire as she sits in her tent with Aaron. Desmond, ever the gentleman, offers to repair the roof of Claire's tent. In itself this is a lovely gesture, but there's just one problem: There's nothing wrong with the roof. Charlie notices Desmond chatting up Claire, so he rushes over before Desmond woos her with his Scottish charm. Desmond reiterates his desire to fix Claire's roof, but he picks up on Charlie's "back-off" vibe so he calmly turns and leaves. Confused, Charlie and Claire give the roof a once-over, then peer back toward Desmond as he walks down the beach.

During his beach travels, Desmond encounters newbie castaway Paulo. We briefly encountered Paulo last week during the final moments of the episode and, for those unimpressed with his single line of dialog, I'm afraid there's little in this episode to suggest a future Emmy victory. When Desmond comes upon Paulo, he's launching limes into the ocean with a golf club. Lime after lime arcs high into the waves as Paulo refines his fruit-smacking skills. Desmond asks if he can borrow one of his clubs and Paulo instructs him to take the five-iron. Desmond grabs the club and happily skips back to camp.

Desmond spends the remainder of the episode constructing a tall tower. The structure is a mix of bamboo, wires and, at the very tip, a five-iron reaching into the sky. It looks like an antennae or ... a lighting rod.

Hurley spots the device and asks Desmond if he's building a piece of art (for a second I thought he said "piece of Artz," but that was wishful thinking on my part). Desmond responds by hopping up on a nearby table and instructing Hurley to wait a moment.

Thunder rumbles across the sky and torrential rain pummels the beach camp. Charlie and Claire take shelter beneath Claire's tent as rain drips across their faces. Desmond watches, his face etched into a preternatural grin. He knows what's coming.

CRACK! ZIZZZZZ!

A lighting bolt slams into Desmond's structure! The five-iron absorbs the current and the structure crumples to the sand.

Desmond smiles. Nearby, Charlie and Claire look on, officially freaked out by what they've just seen. Did Desmond just save them from a lighting strike?

Point 4
Island We'll close with a few questions and observations:
  • The revelation of the separate Other island clears up the ambiguity surrounding the Pala Ferry. Previously, we all worked under the assumption that the Others used the ferry to zip to their hidden location elsewhere on the castaways' island. But not so! The ferry took them to the Other island.

  • Speaking of Other watercraft, what's up with the submarine? Does the presence of a sub explain how Ethan was able to infiltrate and kill a castaway unnoticed (this happened in season one)? Could it also explain how the Others were able to board the sailboat in "The Glass Ballerina"?
  • Could the power line Sayid found in "Solitary" connect to a power source on the Other island?
  • At some point, the polar bears were kept on the Other island (hence the bear cages currently housing Kate and Sawyer), but why were the polar bears moved to the castaways' island? Did they go nutty? Did they eat all the Other children and steal their Tonka dumptrucks?
  • There has to be a connection between Juliet's expertise as a fertility doctor and the dearth of children in DharmaWorld.

  • I think the "Lost" crew is carefully developing Ben's "weakness." The indignation he reveals during the "Of Mice and Men" scene with Sawyer is part of an underlying character flaw that occasionally flares up in the presence of other men -- we've seen it with Sawyer and with Jack. It seems like an epic pissing match is brewing, and Ben may very well be the piss-ee rather than the piss-er.

That's it for now. Be sure to drop by our "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"The Cost of Living" -- Eko confronts his past (backstory alert!) while Locke hunts for clues in the Pearl station. Meanwhile, an Other rift puts Jack in a mental pickle. Airs: Wednesday, November 1, 9 p.m., ABC.




Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.



Posted by Mac Slocum on October 26, 2006 1:40 PM |




WOOHOO - Am i the first poster this week?

Gettin' ready to read your rockin' recap Mac.

#1. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 1:43 PM

Hey Mac,

I'm sure I'll thank you again for the great reading!!!
I know you always do a bang-up job and your reviews are top-notch, but I haven't read them just yet.

I loved that episode, but I wanted to comment on the "time-travelling Des' thing".
Even if the heavy-handed way in which they pointed out that Des’ can see the future was… well, heavy-handed… it was still very cool the way he set-up his lightning rod!

I just wish Ben would die a slow and painful death, but I’m not cruel, I just like our Losties!!

#2. Posted by: Cesco at October 26, 2006 1:44 PM

THEY HAVE A SUB!! that explains everything.

#3. Posted by: JAC at October 26, 2006 2:02 PM

What if Desmond soaked up all the electromagnetic energy from the explosion and is now psychic?

Hey, it could happen. And with LOST, you never really know.

#4. Posted by: forever_lost at October 26, 2006 2:05 PM

I refrained from commenting on the past 2 episodes because I thought they were so subpar ... but I can't refrain any longer after this one. (Note: Lost is one of my top 5 favorite shows ever).

This season is batting 0-4 so far as I'm concerned. In this episode, Sawyer is our focus. Mac, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see you mention the fact that Sawyer's "con" made absolutely no sense.

Let's see ... some guy is in prison for stealing $8M from the government ... money the government could not find. And yet Sawyer - who is in prison - takes it upon himself to conveniently locate this money (did I mention he is in prison) ... and where is the secret location of this $8M. Why, it's in a pick-up truck on the side of the highway! Of course!

And Sawyer - the man who said to Charlie that he himself has "never done a good thing" his whole life - decides to take his "commission" and set up an account for a child he illegitimately fathered to a woman who is responsible for him being in prison in the first place. Right. (Can I also wonder how Sawyer got convicted in the first place? He stole a bag full of cash from Mullet Lady, who, I'm pretty sure, didn't even know his name - how did she find him? How did they prove he stole the money? Minor details).

As for the island action ... I thought the last scene was really good. The Mice & Men stuff was great. The spinal cancer on Henry, and the X-rays, that was well done. So are we to assume Jack was captured in the first place to cure Henry?

Now ... the whole scene with Sawyer getting wailed on, and Pickett screaming "Do you love him!?" ... I mean, that was brutal. I was almost embarrassed for the show itself when that scene was going on. It was just so over-the-top it was unbearable - and not because it was gory, but because it was so stuipd. And the pacemaker thing? Well, at least it turned out they were lying to Sawyer about that ...

As for Desmond - umm, his character is now supposed to be based upon the fact that he can see the future? Really? That's where his character is heading? What happened to the whole Penny Widmore angle? I'm confused.

Bottom line - there are way too many characters involved. We have seen four episodes in Season 4 and Locke has been in exactly one of them. Totally baffling. Gale is the only Other that I care about, and I cared about him way before this season started. I am afraid to say that when this whole series is finished we will look back on it and judge that its first 2 seasons were some of the best television ever produced while everything thereafter simply fell flat.

#5. Posted by: Mike NYC at October 26, 2006 2:07 PM

Bravo Mac. A terrific episode recap, again. My reaction to this episode is that finally they are providing some answers. I'm not saying they should leave all threads tied, just give us some answers. For example, we know why they took Jack. They need a spine doctor for that nasty tumor. We also know why Sawyer. Certainly not to keep Jack in line, but they need his help running a con. Maybe they already have it and we don't even know about it. A clues blog I also like is at http://www.LostExposed.com/ . I also am starting to get skeptical on whether Ben lied when he claimed to Jack that the Others can get off the island. After all, if they really need a surgeon, why not hop on the submarine or boat and sail away to the HMO? Apparently it is not that easy for them.

#6. Posted by: allen at October 26, 2006 2:07 PM

AMAZING as always, Mac.

"I need to pause a moment to discuss just how ridiculous this is. Kate doesn't struggle through the bars. She POPS THROUGH THEM. This isn't an escape, it's an exit. If she could do this so easily, why didn't she try it before?"

Okay- anyone up for a discussion on this one? I've read and heard rumors that Kate is an Other, but I've dismissed them...too easy, right? But come on, nobody is bothering her all that much in Dharmawold, she gets clean clothes, never a beating, etc... Any takers?

#7. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at October 26, 2006 2:10 PM

A few subtleties I think I picked up on, and if I am wrong, please let me know...

-Ok, was the treasury agent's name "Freeman" or "Freedman"? Funny play on words if it is considering that's exactly what Sawyer just did for himself. Also, was this the same guy who stuck the needle in Sawyer's chest? (I know....I have been on a "we've-seen-these-seemingly-insignificant-characters-somewhere-in this-series-before" kick lately, but I am hoping one, just one, of them actually pans out...)

-If that damn siren was so loud, how come they couldn't faintly hear it on the survivors' island? Is it really that far away? Are we sure that second island is really over there? Maybe it was one gigantic green screen joke Benry was playing on Sawyer?

-How does this communications speaker actually work this episode when the last time we heard from it, it was spewing words from Jack's dead father in the beyond???? Or is that because Jack's father isn't dead?

-Munson's number in the jail was 248....I think we mentioned this in the forum for episode one this season, but wasn't "2" one of the numbers on Jack's beeper in the flashbacks?

Can't wait to hear what y'all have to say about this week....looking forward to it!

WGNABB
Namaste
IWAE
"Live together...die alone!!!"

#8. Posted by: Vikki at October 26, 2006 2:13 PM

Great review, as usual, Mac. I did not put the lightning rod and saving Claire's roof together on my own. Thanks for that.

1) Did Cassie pull the final con on Sawyer? Did she really have a baby - or his baby?

2) Kate kept looking up and around. I thought she was figuring out that there were hidden microphones or cameras. Then it was revealed that she could get out the top of the cage.

3) Now we're getting a hint of why Jack/Sawyer/Kate... Jack for his skills. Kate to be the carrot that controls Jack. Sawyer - not absolutely sure on this one yet.

#9. Posted by: djrmsn at October 26, 2006 2:20 PM

I'm guessing the x-rays for the spinal cancer are Jack's dad. He has to save his own father...

#10. Posted by: John at October 26, 2006 2:21 PM

Wuttup wuttup its your boy Evil blizzle, thought last nights episode was tight! Did anyone see Sawyer in prison? Did he have the #'s on his prison gear?


GGG GGG G-Unit!

#11. Posted by: Omar Adams at October 26, 2006 2:22 PM

Mac, your reviews just rock ! I´m from Brazil, and on thursdays I set my computer to download the latest episode, but I just can´t seem to wait and everytime I read your recap first ...
Keep up the nice job!

#12. Posted by: Felipe at October 26, 2006 2:26 PM

Great review, Mac! (as always)

Question: Why did Benry want the sailboat so bad (risking injury to his counterparts to get it) if they already had a friggin' sub?

I think Kate has been compromised. I think she's pulling the ultimate long con on Sawyer.

Where was Locke this episode? We see Charlie. We don't see Locke or Eko. Were they sleeping the whole time?

#13. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 2:27 PM

Was anyone else disappointed that Hurley still hasn't said anything about Michael, Jack, Sawyer, Walt, or Kate? Anyone disappointed that Hurley didn't say "DUUUUUDE," when the lightning hit that 5-iron?

#14. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 2:29 PM

john, xrays belong to benjamin linus aka benry, pdiddy is da man!

#15. Posted by: ramo smada at October 26, 2006 2:31 PM

I really liked this episode. Wouldn't it be something if the tumor is Jack's and his father is there to save him. Before I get blasted too much, remember that this is Lost. We haven't seen Jack's dads body yet. The promos show Jack talking to Ben but I don't think they'd give it away that easy. Jack may be there to save himself !?!

#16. Posted by: MrEko237 at October 26, 2006 2:32 PM

I will be extremely shocked if the tumor is Benry's. Jack said that the patient was a near 40 year old man, so it couldn't be Jack's Dad (unless they can really supress time). Could be Benry, Jack, Sawyer, Tom....?

#17. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 2:41 PM

@MrEko237

Love your theory! That would be amazing...but highly unlikely! How would they have taken those xrays until AFTER they had already taken and drugged him? But that would be so cool....I have to agree with Ramo Smada and say that they're probobly Benry's. That would explain why he hasn't left the island his whole life. Perhaps the island is keeping him alive with this tumor.

#18. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at October 26, 2006 2:42 PM

OK, the x-rays are most likely not Jack's padre, how about Sawyer? He has to save the man that stands between he and Kate. Sawyer was knocked out for a while this episode, they could have taken x-rays...

#19. Posted by: John at October 26, 2006 2:44 PM

"Pickett walks off to grab a beer and watch the game at Alvar Hanso's Bar & Grill."
ROTFLMFAO!! Best line ever, Mac!!

I also wondered if Jack is there to save himself (what a wonderful twist of irony that would be!). I'm just thankful that no bunnies were harmed in the making of this episode. (Good call on the "Python" reference, though!)

@ djrmsn: I think you could be right about Cassie conning Sawyer out of his commission. He did teach her a lot during his long con with her. But, if that's the case, would she have access to the money if it's in Clementine's name?

#20. Posted by: Trinity at October 26, 2006 2:45 PM

I guess its evil of me to say this, but I'm really hoping it is Benjamin Linus' Xrays on the wall. Its obvious that Jack was captured for a reason, and the fact that the Others are well equipped medically, but not equipped ENOUGH for serious ailments. Thus, they kidnapped Jack.

I don't think that the death of Colleen was planned, but I do believe that Sawyer and Kate were to be involved in the 'Long Con' to get Jack to operate on Benry. Colleen... just sped things up a bit. I guess Ben showed Sawyer the 'home' island just to reinforce the fact that even if he does escape... where will he go?

Which brings me to the Other other island... sigh. Now that we know there are two (at least) islands, lets think back to Michael and Walt. The heading they gave them from the Pala Ferry that would take them into open waters.... Would it take them to the Others' island? Seems stupid as they're both obviously visible.

Also, Rousseau has made a full map of the island, and its pretty detailed... Wouldn't she or Sayid have seen this other island in their journey? Methinks a game is afoot.

I wasn't as pleased with this episode, but it did have its exciting points. I think I need to see a few more before I make my final judgement.

#21. Posted by: Illusivemuse at October 26, 2006 2:53 PM

Hey folks. I have some questions from this episode that I'm hoping one of you genius people can help me with.

1. Why was it daylight when they brought Colleen back? How fast do subs go b/c it was pretty freakin dark when they stole the boat.

2. When Ben says the part about "I tell you a guy gets lonely and he gets sick" - is that tumor sick? violent sicko sick? or somehow emotionally sick?

3. Do you think that they are trying to get bone marrow from Sawyer or blood or something? Maybe that's why they are so obsessed with fertility. Ben needs to have a kid to get bone marrow? Just a thought.

That's all for now, any help would be appreciated.

#22. Posted by: KT at October 26, 2006 3:00 PM

I was waiting for Ben to say, (In an Arnold voice) "It's not a tumor!"
HA!!
Love the show, want more answers.

#23. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at October 26, 2006 3:01 PM

I was waiting for Ben to say, (In an Arnold voice) "It's not a tumor!"
HA!!
Love the show, want more answers.

#24. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at October 26, 2006 3:02 PM

It can't be Jack's dad's x-ray, since he can't be 40.

#25. Posted by: madiera at October 26, 2006 3:04 PM

I wonder if they take an escalator, an elevator, or stairs down to their sub? Hmmmmmmm. LOL.

I'm guessing it was an escalator.

#26. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:06 PM

"Stor-Quik facility in Sawgrass. Right off 441. Unit 23C."

I wonder if this place exists. I have a summer house in Deerfield Beach, Florida. It's right near the intersection of the Sawgrass Expressway and rt 441.

Very interesting.

#27. Posted by: schiano at October 26, 2006 3:10 PM

If he has a tumor, why isn't Benry hanging on the other island where the restorative powers of the island could save him... well i wonder if those powers are gone now that the hatch is hatch-less

#28. Posted by: WuLost at October 26, 2006 3:12 PM

(441)4+4+1=9; (23C)2+3+3(C is the 3rd letter)=8. 9+8=17.

What the significance? I...DON'T...KNOW!

#29. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:12 PM

Few points/questions:
1. Could the sub be the shark the rafties saw in the water?
2. Juliet is a fertility doc., rabbits are used to detect pregancy...
3. Sawyer loves Kate/Kate loves Sawyer; babies in the future... with the help of Juliet and rabbits?
4. Maybe all this has to do with cloning or stem cell research.

#30. Posted by: Kathy at October 26, 2006 3:13 PM

Definitely think the Tumor belongs to one of the 815ers, not the Others.

#31. Posted by: Wolf at October 26, 2006 3:14 PM

Big Question.

If you can see the island from the "Other's" island (the point where Sawyer & Ben were standing)Then why can't the castaways see the "Other's" island. If you can see them they should be able to see you don't you think?

#32. Posted by: Scott at October 26, 2006 3:17 PM

I thought this episode was great. Best one of the season thus far. The revelations of another island and a submarine explains a great deal about the others and makes them seem more real. Before we had no idea how they came and went so freely and could not be tracked. Well now we know how they do it and the answer is a feesible one (I know, how feesible can it be that they have a sub but I'm speaking in LOST terms here). Before we knew this they had a spooky aura about them. My biggest question now is where do they go from here. If Jack saves whoever he is meant to save, does that buy him a ticket out of there? And since Jack was brought there for a specific reason, and it appears Sawyer was too although we do not know what yet, for what specific purpose were Kate and Sawyer kidnapped? I can say with all certainty that it wasn't to move rocks. Great job as always Mac!
JAC

#33. Posted by: JAC at October 26, 2006 3:19 PM

Maybe Sayid, Sun, and Jin will discover the "Other" island on their walk back from Pala Ferry dock? I should think so. I mean they've pretty much covered the perimeter of the entire island between Sayid, Sun, and Jin on the sailboat, Sayid's trek in S1, and Locke and Boone's travels.

You would have thought that Hurley could have seen it from the high point he was at when his "buddy" jumped the cliff and Libby talked him down, or in S1 when Sayid took the radio to a high point and was knocked out.

#34. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:22 PM

@Kathy
Bunnies are used to detect pregnancy??? Really?

#35. Posted by: JAC at October 26, 2006 3:23 PM

awesome review mac, the only thing that can make a birthday spent all day at school a little more bearable.

- I think the others needed the sailboat to prevent to losties from sailing over to their island(if there are even two seperate islands)

#36. Posted by: blazinnoah at October 26, 2006 3:24 PM

Observations:
1. A poor con man is one with a conscious. Sawyer is a poor con man; Benry claims he is better. (Locke’s father appears to be a master in comparison).
2. Kate’s real island protector is Zeke. Thee has been a connection between the two. When new clothes arrive, Zeke tells her to call him if there are any problems. When Danny goes nuts when his Colleen dies in OR, he vents his rage to Zeke, not Benry. When Danny in a rage for his loss beats up Sawyer, he asks Kate the question - - - which stops the beating. But in reality, Kate’s answer should have enraged Danny more because his only revenge would be killing Sawyer. (Manslaughter: murder in the heat of passion/emotion).
3. The beach camp survivors have turned into drones; they have no concern about getting off the island or rescue; their activities resemble a collective a cabana residents during a Club Med vacation. The crisp and clean polo/golf shirt of Paulo seems clearly out of place. And as a character, driftwood.
4. If Desmond has the gift to see the future, then should not Locke, who was in the hatch at the time of the implosion, have a similar gift? But Locke has no such vision, because he threw the knife at the polar bear which was really Hurley. And was it a nice clear day for golf when Desmond created the lightning rod. He told Hurley to wait a moment (to observe) and then suddenly lightning appears and strikes the 5-iron perfectly (even though it would have been more probable that such a lightning strike would have hit the surrounding, taller objects -- the trees). Desmond may not be seeing the future, but creating it.
5. Jack misread the x-ray of the tumor at L4 (screen shot shows tumor at L2).(prop error?)
Any person with that rare and serious medical condition would not be located on an isolated Pacific island. (Even a nut case like a Howard Hughes would rent/donate a hospital wing with the best specialists stateside in order to get the best treatment possible.)
6. The medical facility had the look and feel of a military base clinic (spray paint stencil lettering). A medical facility with no staff; there were no nurses or med techs in Colleen’s OR, and the people in the observation deck look like they can’t stand the sight of blood. If this was a functioning medical research facility, would not it have a basic staff in place? (Or is this a bad HMO?)

#37. Posted by: welh at October 26, 2006 3:25 PM

@ blazinnoah.

Great thought. That's probably true. Without a boat, the Losties have no way of getting over to their island.

Wow, nice going Sayid. Let's see what kind of clever plan Locke comes up with to get over there (you know he will, he said he would).

#38. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:26 PM

Just a thought, but maybe the tumor is Locke's and that is what causes him to be paralyzed. I am really hoping that it is Benry's though. Jack should operate and accidentally slip and cut something serious.

#39. Posted by: ydnewc1 at October 26, 2006 3:27 PM

@JAC
Yes, have you never heard "The rabbit is dead"? It is a saying some people make when a person finds out they are pregnant.

Also they needed the sailboat because the Others gave their boat to Walt and his dad.

#40. Posted by: Kathy at October 26, 2006 3:28 PM

@Mike NYC: Sawyer was chosen by the warden/government to pull the scam on Munson. He made a deal with them to get out of jail and get a cut. No writer's cheats involved.

Why did Kate get her wrists all banged up, Zeke's shower scene, and Beach Blanket Benry Breakfast if she is with the Others? If she was an Other wouldn't they have just let her take a normal shower and give her some comfortable clothing?

How big is this sub? There were about 5 people on the boat. They can't all get off the island on a mini-sub.

I also wondered why Danielle's map did not include the other island. Is it invisible to eyesight? Didn't Sayid and Co. sail right by it?

To all: Patience is a virtue. Many people are expecting answers to every question every week. Just wait and see where the story goes. It's fun to come here and postulate but to constantly complain about what happened to ______ and why doesn't every character have 15 minutes of screen time in every episode doesn't make for fun reading.

#41. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at October 26, 2006 3:33 PM

@ Kathy

No I've never heard that so that means you must be wrong. Just kidding. I'll take your word for it. Good call on the need for the sailboat.

JAC

#42. Posted by: JAC at October 26, 2006 3:35 PM

Also "cool" their heels not "cook" them.

#43. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at October 26, 2006 3:35 PM

OK so when the Others had our losties tied up on the dock and let Michael and walt go, were they still on the Losties island? If not, how did Hurley walk back to camp?

#44. Posted by: El at October 26, 2006 3:36 PM

@JAC

A long time ago, long before the advent of the EPT home pregnancy tests, doctors would draw blood from a woman who thought she was pregnant and inject it into a rabbit.

If the rabbit died... the woman was pregnant.

#45. Posted by: Illusivemuse at October 26, 2006 3:36 PM

Does anyone think there's a coorelation between the fact that the others are very explicate that the losties don't pass a certain line on the island... couldn't that be because from a certain peripheral, you would be able to see their other island?

#46. Posted by: KT at October 26, 2006 3:38 PM

I know I'm not stupid so am I the only one confused? If there are two islands, aren't Jin, Sun and Sayid marooned on the Others' island?

#47. Posted by: El at October 26, 2006 3:40 PM

This would also explain why the rabbits were numbered. The Others were very interested in Clair's baby and Rousso's baby. Lord help Sun when they find out about her!! I know we have heard alot about embryonic stem cell research lately, which brings this to mind, but maybe that is why the Others are interested in the people having babies and creating more babies.

#48. Posted by: Kathy at October 26, 2006 3:44 PM

The Pala Ferry dock is on the Losties island. The dock that Michael and Walt left and Jack, Sawyer, and Kate were taken and Hurley was released. The same dock that Sayid, Sun, and Jin had the sailboat taken from.

Where that dock is in relation to the Others island, I have no idea.

We haven't seen anything on the Others island other than the Hydra, the beach scene with Benry and Kate, the rock moving work on the path by Sawyer and Kate, and the cliff we saw Sawyer and Benry on.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the Other's camp we saw at the opening of S3 is also on the Others island, which is probably why the Losties never saw or found their houses. The "area" where Walt was kept and Michael was taken once captured is also likely on the Losties island, because Sayid stopped there in the sailboat and no one was there. Clearly he would have known if it was an "other" island.

#49. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:46 PM

I am more than a little confused about this "Other Island" thing. Why is the castaway Island so visable to Sawyer and Ben, yet the castaways see nothing but ocean from their Island, and in the season 3 premiere when thay saw the plane break up, Ethan and the other guy who's name I can't remember, took off running in different directions. They were not going to any submarine. Can anyone clear tis up? And in that same show the camera panned up from "Othersville" and it clearly showed where the plane had crashed on the same Island. funny review Mac. The buuny stuff was killing me.

#50. Posted by: dlostinboston at October 26, 2006 3:48 PM

@El: I believe Sawyer, Kate and Jack woke up on the new island (in the cage, shower, and aquarium, respectively). They could have been knocked out by tranquilizer and shipped across the water to Other Island.

#51. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at October 26, 2006 3:48 PM

If Juliette is a fertility doctor, could that have something to do with the fact that Sun is now pregnant even though Jin was infertile? Perhaps it's not Kareem's baby after all!

#52. Posted by: Trinity at October 26, 2006 3:49 PM

Check out this awesome Dharma 3D sign on ebay. It is Item number:290043983278
Great episode last night. And as always another superb review from the master Mac.

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#53. Posted by: thinng at October 26, 2006 3:49 PM

Great job again Mac.

I can accept the new island, but that seems to conflict with the season opener where the Others camp witnessed the plane crash and Ethan and Goodwin seemingly ran in different directions to the two plane crash sites. If they were on the *other* island, I'd imagine that Ethan and Goodwin would have to take the sub to the main island and then run to the two different sides. Thoughts?

Marty.

#54. Posted by: Marty at October 26, 2006 3:52 PM

Thanks Dudelost for the explanation and for not getting pissed off at having to explain things.
dlostinboston, that was another confysing thing. That the Others ran when the plane crashed. Unless they have a tunnel to the other island, they they wouldn't need a sub.

#55. Posted by: El at October 26, 2006 3:53 PM

I meant to add to my posting regarding the presence of a second island, that would explain why Russuo never found them in the 15 years that she has been on the island.

I don't know. I mean, if the island is hidden from the world (by some sort of magnetic/force field), then I'm not quite sure why the second island can see it, yet you can't see the second island from the first island.

Marty.

#56. Posted by: Marty at October 26, 2006 3:54 PM

Sorry, apparently I can't spell today!

#57. Posted by: El at October 26, 2006 3:55 PM

Remember, the tailies landed on one side of the island, the losties on another side of the island. Also remember that the Others had more than one water vessel at that time. They (I assume) had the sub, and they had the water craft that they captured Walt with (motorboat).

Ethan takes the sub, Goodwin takes the motorboat, or vice versa. They could have been docked at two different locations for getting to one side of the losties island, or the other.

#58. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 3:56 PM

Can't catch me cause the rabbit done died...

#59. Posted by: Steven Tyler at October 26, 2006 3:59 PM

Maybe the Others relocated after the plane crashed? We haven't seen Happyville since the crash and they seem to be all around the dreary dorms. Maybe that's why they are clearing a new area from rocks and tiny pebbles.

#60. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at October 26, 2006 4:00 PM

Who knows? They could have a whole fleet of boats. I wouldn't be surprised to see Juliette go Ski-Doo'ing past the Losties beach and flip them off or moon them at this point.


AHHH, why did I start watching this show? LOL.

#61. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 4:00 PM

Hi
i was just wondering if anyone else read like me that the others have jacks father for tests
was he on the plane cos if so why isnt jack lukin for ghis body

#62. Posted by: lordio at October 26, 2006 4:04 PM

Hi
i was just wondering if anyone else read like me that the others have jacks father for tests
was he on the plane cos if so why isnt jack lukin for ghis body

#63. Posted by: lordio at October 26, 2006 4:04 PM

Dudelost, rotflmao!!!

#64. Posted by: John at October 26, 2006 4:06 PM

Dudelost, you are funny!

I hate to admit it too, but it's gettin kinda hard for me to keep track of all this stuff....

I am with all of you...the two island thing is confusing....How big is the survivors' island? B/c I am also not understanding how they wouldn't know there is another island right next to them. At the beginning of season 2, what island are Sawyer and Michael looking at after their raft gets blown to bits...the one they call "home"?

What real proof do we have that 2 islands exist? Don't we know by now not to take anything for granted with this show?

And who the hell is the eye patch guy in next week's previews???? Huh????

Thinng, WADGNABB!

#65. Posted by: Vikki at October 26, 2006 4:07 PM

When the guards lead Sawyer to the meeting with the warden, I thought I noticed one of the guards looked like Ben. Am I wrong about this or not?

#66. Posted by: Mr. Cube at October 26, 2006 4:08 PM

While watching the episode last night when Benry said the sub is back, I thought it was just a code word. If they do have a sub, that means that had to take Colleen off the sailboat, put her on the sub and then transport her to the other island. Having a sub seems a little weird, but whatever.

#67. Posted by: ydnewc1 at October 26, 2006 4:09 PM

Mac,
First off, let me say that I love your reviews. I think you do a great job, this is the best Lost review/blog on the web. This may seem insignificant, but as I writer I thought you'd want to know about 2 typos in your review.

"Munson, susicious of Sawyer's motivation" - I think you meant to write "suspicious".

"For the time being, he's forced to cook his heels in his aquarium cell" - I'm sure you meant "cool" his heels.

WGNABB-
Stephanie

#68. Posted by: Stephanie at October 26, 2006 4:12 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when Jack opened the door and nearly drowned himself and Juliet, the point was made that this was because the Hydra was under water. I envisioned an underwater facility. Or maybe they are just holding him in an area under land-based aquarium tanks.

Either way, Jack and Sawyer and Kate are all held in the same place, and it seems more a zoo facility than a medical facility.

I continue to think that "Others" != "Dharma". It seems to me that the "Others" are occupying abandoned Dharma facilities. Seems Dharma was there, left for some reason, the Others came along and are now caretakers of some sort.

Am I theorizing? Dang, I said I wouldn't.

Btw, more on the expression, "The rabbit died" here if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_test

#69. Posted by: Darryl at October 26, 2006 4:13 PM

Waaaaaait a minute.

ydnewc1's post just triggered something. Why would they need a sub? They just stole the sailboat! Why would they take her off the sailboat and put her in the sub unless the only entrance to the hydra and medical room was to go under the island in some Batcave like way?

Maybe it was code that they spoke in front of Jack so he wouldn't know they captured the sailboat?

#70. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 4:15 PM

I've gotta think we'll see the warden again. There's no way they got Bill Duke to be on the show and only give him like five lines. He's too recognizeable an actor for so small a part.
@ ydnewc1
I had the same thought that the tumor could be Locke's. It would tie some things together.
Speaking of Locke, where was he? After the big speech on how they were going to go find their friends, how come no one was out trying to find their friends? Paolo, who was supposedly so concerned about Jack et al, last episode, is now hitting golf balls into the ocean! Where's the big rescue Locke promised? Where's all that concern everyone had last week?
I wish they'd focus one group of people per episode. They try to squeez too much in and then the inconsistencies show.

#71. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 26, 2006 4:18 PM

@Stephanie

""Munson, susicious of Sawyer's motivation" - I think you meant to write "suspicious".

"For the time being, he's forced to cook his heels in his aquarium cell" - I'm sure you meant "cool" his heels."

- thanks for clearing that up b/c I was LOST.

Also

- at first I did not think the Kate as an Other theory was possible, but something may have happened to her in between brunch with Benry and being brought to the cages. She may have been "compromised" - wish I could write that in Sayid's accent, it just sounds cool.

- hate to admit it but I too thought one of those prison guards looked like Benry.

- the 2 island theory is insane, talk about raising new questions! I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be crap.

CS

#72. Posted by: Charlie Salinger at October 26, 2006 4:21 PM

Can someone explain to me please why Sayid, Jin, or Sun didn't notice the other island as they were galivanting around their island on the sailboat? Or is this an obvious oversight?

#73. Posted by: Dave at October 26, 2006 4:23 PM

@ Dudelost: Presumably, they had to transport Colleen back to Island #2 on the sailboat in order to get it back there, which would take longer than a submarine. (Maybe someone driving the sub dropped them off then ran off.) And it could be that they tried working on her for a while before taking her to the medical station which would explain the fact that it was now daylight (I know someone asked about that earlier).
About the Losties not seeing the island and/or Otherville, Perhaps those huge-ass mountains are blocking their view. I kind of think that "Happyville" is on the same island as the Losties, but the Hydra and bear cages are on the Alcatraz one. The Others' camp is just so well-hidden by all those mountains it would be pretty hard to find.

#74. Posted by: Trinity at October 26, 2006 4:24 PM

@PiecesOfArtz and Stephanie -- thanks for the typo catches! -- mac

#75. Posted by: mac at October 26, 2006 4:25 PM

Mac, I've been reading for a few weeks now and LOVE coming here. Funniest part of this recap: The name-dropping of previous episode titles.

Can I just jump in? ... The whole tumor thing ... First of all -- the promo is edited to make it appear that Ben is the one with the tumor. This would be an obvious choice.

However ... Another choice would be that JULIETTE HAS THE TUMOR. This would be an amazing character theme for Jack. Think of it ... First, saving his wife. Now, on the island, having to save another woman he is attracted to.

Finally ... it looks like the find a new hatch in the preview. But the alien/eye patch guy is really freaking me out!! LOL. Can't wait to see what that is.

Thanks, Mac!

#76. Posted by: Matt at October 26, 2006 4:30 PM

Mac:

Great review as always. You amaze me with your powers of observation. I did notice one thing. Benry tells Sawyer that they aren't killers. That they (the Others) haven't killed anyone. That is a blatant lie. In season 2 Goodwin snapped Nathan's neck like a Thanksgiving turkey, and in Season 1 Ethan strung up poor Charlie like a Christmas goose. Charlie was dead when Jack and Kate found him hanging, Jack saved him with the S&M CPR procedure.

There were so many things in last nights ep that I don't have the energy to repeat everything you've already addressed above, and in a much better way than I could ever hope to do.

I look forward to reading everyone's posts. You guys are all too funny sometimes.

WGNABB
NAMASTE
IWAE

#77. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 4:33 PM

Oh yeah - i forgot to mention the preview for next week. Looks like there's a one-eyed man on the island. Perhaps a nod to "The Fugitive"? You know - one armed man / one eyed man. Just a thought.

#78. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 4:35 PM

Didn' Kate rob a bank in Albuquerque?

#79. Posted by: Craig at October 26, 2006 4:41 PM

@Craig -awesome catch. I love for those two things to come up in the future.

#80. Posted by: Dude at October 26, 2006 4:43 PM

Just for clarification, I made that post to Craig.

Don't know why the system "lost" my handle there. :)

IWAE.

#81. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 4:45 PM

Zeke is TOM we already know that from the season 2 finale. What if Desmund was not building a lightening rod to save Claire but what if he was doing to create one of those glass thingy that you get when you mix lightening and sand?

#82. Posted by: matt at October 26, 2006 4:49 PM

@Matt.

Fulgerites. From wikipedia:

Petrified lightning featured in the movie Sweet Home Alabama where the lead male character 'Jake' attempts to manufacture fulgurite by placing metal poles into the sandy beach during a thunderstorm to channel the lightning into the ground. Something similar happened in 2004 on Memorial Day in Huntsville Alabama when lightning struck a high tension power pole. The lightning bolt travelled through the metal guy-wire into the sandy soil at the base of the pole forming a green coloured glassy substance.

Memorial Day. 2004? Hmmmm..

#83. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 4:56 PM

At the momnet when "The Other Guy"
Other than Benry or Zeke, has the needle and about to plung it into Sawyers chest.
You can sense that he "No-Name"
does not know exactly what he is doing.
So he "No-Name" pauses briefly,
When Zeke says something like.
"No ! through the sternum,
just like in the movie."
They had no idea what they were doing,
or again just a ploy do mess with Sawyers groggie head?

#84. Posted by: DJazz at October 26, 2006 4:59 PM

I think the Others village and medical building appear newer and cleaner than the Dharma facilities. The Others are occupying the abandoned Dharma complex. If the second island is true, then there would be little reason for the Others to have continual contact with the Losties island if their purpose, technology and living quarters was on the Alcatraz island. On the Losties island, we are sure that the Others expedition parties have been near the survivor's camps, in the jungle and in the secret medical hatch where Claire was taken. Then it is also possible that Benry's crew may not know of the existence of the Hatch, or even Desmond.

#85. Posted by: cyberbarf at October 26, 2006 5:01 PM

Many people have been wondering why the losties haven't spotted this "other" island. It's quite possible that our intrepid survivors haven't travelled the entire island yet. If they had they would have found Dharmaville, the Pala Ferry, the Tailees (pre-reunion), and a thousand and one other things. The fact is that the island they are on enormous.

Mac, do you have anyway of posting Jpegs on this blog. I ask because last year I was surfing the web for any and all things related to the show and I found one posting of an island map. This island map showed all the relevant points of interest on the island up to that point in the season. It also showed a small island to the south. In the representation it was close enough that it could be the one from last night's ep. The key events noted on the map showed that none had taken place anywhere near a vantage point to see it. The representation was a recreation of Crazy Danielle's map from season 1 that Sayid had. The person apparently copied it from a screen capture. Let me know if there is any way to post it.

#86. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 5:02 PM

@dudelost -

"I wouldn't be surprised to see Juliette go Ski-Doo'ing past the Losties beach and flip them off or moon them at this point."

HA! That was hysterical.

Just a couple of random thoughts: I don't buy the "woe is me, I'm not used to death" act from Juliet for one minute. I think Sawyer had her pegged when he told Kate she would have shot Kate with no problem. I think this is all for Jack's benefit and for now, he doesn't seem to be buying it, but we'll see.

I tend to also believe as has been previously posted that the islands are in some way connected (tunnel? shallow water/sandbar? escalator?). That would explain how the polar bears got the the Losties island and how the Others appear so frequenly over there.

#87. Posted by: Amy at October 26, 2006 5:07 PM

Ok, I never posted before, but I have a question. How did they get to the Others Island with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer? Wouldn't they realize they were on a boat, raft, ferry or something? Is there an underwater passage?

Mac, great recaps. I found this late last season. The other recaps don't hold fish biscuits to yours.

#88. Posted by: Olimax at October 26, 2006 5:08 PM

I really think that we are going to be introduced to a second group of others very soon. Maybe the "bad ones". The creepy guy in the preview is probably part of that group.

I have to admit the presence of another island that nobody ever noticed is a little convenient.

I also appreciate the recollection about the bank job that kate was involved with. Could it be the same bank Sawyer used?

Mac, just wanted to say that you are a great writer. The recaps are perfect. Only picky thing...abdominal wounds aren't sucking, chest wounds suck. (well, all wounds suck but you know what i mean)

look forward to this recap every week...thanks again.

#89. Posted by: Scott at October 26, 2006 5:09 PM

I really think that we are going to be introduced to a second group of others very soon. Maybe the "bad ones". The creepy guy in the preview is probably part of that group.

I have to admit the presence of another island that nobody ever noticed is a little convenient.

I also appreciate the recollection about the bank job that kate was involved with. Could it be the same bank Sawyer used?

Mac, just wanted to say that you are a great writer. The recaps are perfect. Only picky thing...abdominal wounds aren't sucking, chest wounds suck. (well, all wounds suck but you know what i mean)

look forward to this recap every week...thanks again.

#90. Posted by: Scott at October 26, 2006 5:10 PM

What if the smoke from the Pala Ferry going back and forth between the 2 islands is the "black smoke" that means that "the others are coming" -- remember Danielle's warning?
This would be a nice tie-in to season 1 (was that in season 1? I'm starting to get confused by what happened when...)

#91. Posted by: Sabrin at October 26, 2006 5:15 PM

the 2 islands thinng is pissin' me off... how can that be ???

Are they gonna kill Sawyer ?

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#92. Posted by: thinng at October 26, 2006 5:17 PM

mac - your comment about that 10th grade English teacher...some of us may resemble that remark - so be careful..:)

I haven't finished the points you made yet, or read the posts, but I wanted to pose this question first about the "sub" group. Maybe they didn't mean sub as in submarine?? Or, am I totally off. I finally gave up and put on the cc so I could understand mumbles better.

#93. Posted by: meg at October 26, 2006 5:24 PM

I just assumed the tumor was Benry's. Don't the previews from next week imply this?

#94. Posted by: meg at October 26, 2006 5:30 PM

If there is another island, that would answer the question as to why Benry wanted the saiboat - so the Losties could not sail to the island where the Others actually reside.

With the Others on a different island, there is seemingly no way for the Losties to find them - they can search their guts out, but will only walk in circles around their own island.

Perhaps the Losties CAN see the other island - but it is so far off as to be unreachable in their minds. Or maybe that is where Michael, Jin, Sawyer and Walt were headed on the raft. The Others wouldn't have liked that, thus they intercepted the raft.

The "do you love him" thing was utterly ridiculous. It did not seem relevant and made no sense whatsoever.

Where the hell is Penny Widmore. Perhaps she has been melted down for the copper as she sure has hell hasn't been heard from in Season 3. Yet at the end of season 2, we were led to belive that she was an important piece of the puzzle.

Where the hell were Locke and Eko this episode? And how about Sayid, Jin and Sun? TNCS (the new characters suck)

Whoever it was that said the beach camp was too calm and the Losties were too comfortable in their surroundings was correct. Gawd, you'd think they'd do SOMETHING positive. Think of the mixed drinks those limes could be a part of.

I also thought the use of the word "sub" was a code word. If they truly have a submarine, it brings up many questions. And if our Losties can capture it, then WGNABB will become passe - in favor of WHAS (we have a sub).

WMHAS (we might have a sub)

#95. Posted by: ButchM at October 26, 2006 5:33 PM

@meg -

I tend to agree with you. I think the tumor is Benry's, but I think some are saying that because of that implication in the previews it would be too obvious. I know some are speculating that the tumor could belong to one of the Losties: Jack, Locke, but I can't see the Others caring enough to try to save any of them. This seems a stretch for me.

#96. Posted by: Amy at October 26, 2006 5:33 PM

@Illusivemuse

Sorry to disagree with you, but I had never heard of the "rabbit test" and checked what you were saying about the blood being injected and the rabbit dying.
It is a urban legend...

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/rabbit.htm

#97. Posted by: Cesco at October 26, 2006 5:35 PM

I'm getting to the bottom of the posts, but when I think of something I am scrolling down and saying it. About the second island thing. There have been references such as "God can't see this island". Maybe the second island is invisible from the other one. This wouls also explain being "stuck in a bloody snowglobe."

#98. Posted by: meg at October 26, 2006 5:36 PM

A reminder (clue?) and a question:

Reminder: At the end of last season's closer, when Benry had Jack, Kate and Sawyer bound up and kneeling on the dock, remember what he said...when Michael asked "What's gonna happen to them?" (or something to that effect), Benry answered, "They're coming home with us." That, to me is no perfectly clear. "Home" is the Other island (the one they live on, scheme on, now keep Kate, jack and Sawyer imprisoned on. The ending scenes from last season with Micahel and Mrs. Klugh all took place on the Losties island. Remeber, when Sayid found this "camp" he discovered it was somehat of a ruse (supposed doors that openend into the sides of a hill, uninhabitable tents, no signs of life, etc.). I believe this was all a ruse -- another brilliant/creepy Other tactic to keep their real secret (i.e. the important "home" island) ac secret.

Now for the question:

This has been bugging me -- why can Kate and Sawyer not see or locate these hidden cameras? If all you had to do all day was sit in a cage and stare, don't you think you would examine the smallest of details? I mean, it isn't like the cameras had to be hidden if they were there to observe the bears. I just find it odd that nethier Kate nor Sawyer have even entertained the thought that they might be being watched/observed. And, one final question, can the observees (i.e. Bennry in his little surveilance lair) HEAR Kate and Sawyer or just see them? We know that Jack's tank is miked for sound, but what about the cages?

#99. Posted by: GatorGal at October 26, 2006 5:41 PM

Remember the pan-out from the S3 premier of the other village? Definitely not on an island only twice as big as Alcatraz.

#100. Posted by: Brian at October 26, 2006 5:42 PM

NEW TOPIC (Spoilerish).....


Who DIES next week?

The spoilerfix site is reporting that "Next week, a major character (as in a series regular) whose name is not Sawyer will join Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia and Libby in the big island in the sky."

All I can say is, thank heaven it isn't Sawyer!

#101. Posted by: GatorGal at October 26, 2006 5:46 PM

NEW TOPIC (Spoilerish).....


Who DIES next week?

The spoilerfix site is reporting that "Next week, a major character (as in a series regular) whose name is not Sawyer will join Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia and Libby in the big island in the sky."

All I can say is, thank heaven it isn't Sawyer!

#102. Posted by: GatorGal at October 26, 2006 5:46 PM

@ GatorGal

Benry can hear Kate and Sawyer. He listened in on their conversation last week (or was it the week before) when they plotted to escape.

@ Cesco

You'd make a good P.I. Good going.

@ Mr. Grimm

Congrats on being the number 1 to post!

#103. Posted by: ButchM at October 26, 2006 5:49 PM

"I really think that we are going to be introduced to a second group of others very soon. Maybe the "bad ones". The creepy guy in the preview is probably part of that group."

Oh lord I hope not, I can't keep up with the two groups we have now.

#104. Posted by: El at October 26, 2006 5:51 PM

in next weeks episode, is there an alien on the monitor??? did anyone catch that in the previews?

#105. Posted by: dopey at October 26, 2006 6:04 PM

the alien looking thing was actually a guy in an eye patch,

#106. Posted by: eyepatchguy at October 26, 2006 6:12 PM

Thanks for the KP. I usauly watch LOST on HD as the show airs. but last night I was sick. So I watched it in speed time this morning. SO it was nice to read the key points for a few things I missed. BUt I have to say I also thought Hurley said ARTZ. but I did not have time to bakc. up.LOL (for a second I thought he said "piece of Artz," but that was wishful thinking on my part).

#107. Posted by: Tiff at October 26, 2006 6:21 PM

@ButchM:

Don't worry about Penny. I remember reading over the summer that the first 6 eps of this season would deal with the Others, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and the fate of the hatch dwellers. Penny should show up in the eps after the break. I also read on another site the ep description of ep #8 (I think) that it will be desmond centric and that Penny will make an appearance.

#108. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 6:23 PM

Is it just me or was there never a libby-centric episode???

#109. Posted by: Sabrin at October 26, 2006 6:26 PM

@Sabrin:

No - there wasn't a Libby centric ep.

#110. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 26, 2006 6:28 PM

@ Mr. Grimm

Thanks for the tip on Penny. It's going to be a loonnnnnng haul until after the break, that's for sure.

Another group of Others? Goodness and mercy! I hope I don't go into cardiac arrest!

#111. Posted by: ButchM at October 26, 2006 6:30 PM

I only got a quick look at the previews for next week, but I didn't see an alien, or a guy with an eye patch -- I saw a guy in a clean suit/gas mask hood on. Like a hazardous waste suit, sort of like what kelvin used to wear when he went out on the island.

#112. Posted by: lost chao at October 26, 2006 6:31 PM

Thanks for the great recap Mac! Loved Jack last night - at least he wasn't weeping. And Des? Gots to love the Des.

#113. Posted by: Sheridan at October 26, 2006 6:36 PM

Who dies next week? Well, let's see: who is currently seriously injured, having been mauled by a large animal? Hmmm, let's see: On the episode where Shannon died, the flashbacks featured Shannon. On the episode where Ana Lucia died, she had all the flashbacks. On next week's episode, the flashbacks feature Mr. Eko. You do the math.

#114. Posted by: Luke Cordoba at October 26, 2006 6:40 PM

OK, the word "escalator" gets me every time. Can't stop laughing...
Just wondering...where the heck is Mrs. Klugh?? I had forgotten about her!

#115. Posted by: Tazbee at October 26, 2006 6:50 PM

Haven't seen any other mention of the previews for next week ... the very last scene, an image on one of Ben's tv monitors --

My wife was in another room watching, and at the same time we both shouted "Space Monsters"!!

Did anyone else see an Area 51 type alien in that shot?? It was standing on the right side of the frame, the rest of the shot seemed to be a locker room. Yikes!

#116. Posted by: walterchepple at October 26, 2006 6:51 PM

If Jack is now watching (taped)? cartoons he must have watched the Sox take out the Yanks and Cards for the title. He would soon have to ask the big question that seems to dog every character on the show: "Who's your Daddy"?

#117. Posted by: lostsox at October 26, 2006 6:55 PM

Sorry, but am I the only one that thought there were more commercials than actual episode this week? I mean, geez, they averaged once every 5 minutes. Lost is quickly going to be relegated to TIVO status that is, I record it than skip the commercials.

#118. Posted by: Gables79 at October 26, 2006 7:03 PM

I am a big fan of this blog. Mac you are a witty and intelligent writer. THanks for all your hard work.

I was just thinking about the spinal tumor. If the island holds the power to cure (Rose and Locke) why does anyone on the island need an operation from Jack? Could the x-rays sitting out for Jack to see be part of a trap or "other" experiment? Sidenote - I don't think it is Benry who has the tumor.

Also, did anyone else think that Desmond summoned that lightening at the end of the episode? I could not tell if he predicted it or caused it to happen somehow.

I like the theories about time travel. I think this is quite likely where the show is headed.

LAstly - great catch on Kate and Albuquerque.

#119. Posted by: Sue at October 26, 2006 7:10 PM

Every time I get down to the bottom of this blog, whatever I wanted to say has been said already. But I'll say it anyway:
The Others village is NOT on the small island, remember when it panned up and you could see the whole village, it was definitley on the large island.

@Gatorgal: Yes, I seem to remember the first time we see Ben watching Sawyer's cage on the monitor, you could hear what he was saying also.
Which brings up another point someone else mentioned also: It does seem odd that Sawyer and Kate haven't thought they were being watched (especially since Kate has obviously been studying her cage, you'd think she'd see the camera).

#120. Posted by: Christina at October 26, 2006 7:18 PM

Someone asked how they could post the image of Danielle's map. Just copy the link to your post. We'd love to see it!

#121. Posted by: Christina at October 26, 2006 7:21 PM

Mac, thanks for an excellent review. It really helped clarify for me what were a couple of particularly confusing moments.

Lousy episode, though. Might have been the weakest one in the history of the series to date. Glad to see that you pulled no punches on the glaring weaknesses, both in plot and characterization. (E.g the semi-pointlessness of Sawyer's flashbackstory, the deus ex-machina-like revelation of a gaping hole in Kate's cage, etc.) After the intense looking commercials, watching the episode was like buying an album and discovering that you just bought a radio hit and 9 filler tracks.

I propose a new nickname for Desmond. Since he's from the UK, apparently now experiences time in backwards flow, and is socially goofy on account of it, Desmond should now be "Merlin". All in favor . . .

#122. Posted by: Deep Cover at October 26, 2006 7:34 PM

Okay, lots of speculation, but no one seems to remember important details. Episode 1 of Season 3, when we see the Others' Main Street Suburban Neighborhood, the shot pans out and gives us a view of their little community ON THE SAME ISLAND as the plane crash - go back to the episode and watch the first five minutes again. Having said that, it is entirely plausible that the Hydra Station (which appears to be underwater) connects the two islands. Is the second island a ruse? I doubt it. Sawyer (and we ourselves) would have picked up on it.

Tumor? Not worth speculating, because previews are always misleading. Yes, the preview made it APPEAR that the tumor is Ben's, but I highly doubt it. Beyond that, trying to figure it out is pointless - we simply don't have enough information.

I, too, saw the "alien-eye-patch-man-thing" in the video monitor, but the scene cut too quickly to tell what/who it was. I will point this out, however - Locke and Nikki are clearly in The Pearl, and the monitor in which the alien-eye-patch-man-thing appeared was probably the Swan (Locke's Hatch). That means that whoever/whatever it was is in what's left of the Hatch. Remember, we saw the remnants of the metal "hatch" part last week, but the entire structure is very large, and very deep underground. We still have no idea what happened to the structure itself.

In terms of unanswered questions, just wait. I can't remember who posted it, but he/she was right: we can't expect every question to be answered every week. As I recall, that was part of the allure that the show had at the beginning. Isn't that why we all tuned in week after week, because of the mystery? Everyone seems disappointed with this season, but it's just started. I recall most people being annoyed with the beginning of last season, too.

Just a few observations. I think, with patience, we will all be pretty satisified in due time.

#123. Posted by: TribbieSt at October 26, 2006 7:40 PM

@Gatorgal.....Sawyer's name isn't really "Sawyer" so he could technically be the one who bites it next week. But, I think Luke Cordoba nailed it about Eko....I thought I saw some sort of axe or weapon hit his head in the preview....

And now for something completely different....Could the tumor be LOCKE'S????? How's that for an answer to why he can walk on the island, but no real answer to how he became paralyzed in the first place? But, due to my complete lack of medical knowledge, I have no idea if a tumor on an L-4 vertebre (if that is what it is called....) can cause someone to be paralyzed or not, but I am just tossing it out there....Maybe because the island properties heal him for the time being, the tumor doesn't affect him? But now I am going to shoot holes in my own theory....Yes, he's not 40. And how would they have gotten an xray of him? I have no clue....but that's my crazy out there theory for this week...

#124. Posted by: Vikki at October 26, 2006 7:42 PM

Well, since they have a whole file on Jack, its plausible that they could have x-rays of a Lostie that were taken before the crash. I, too, thought, "how would they have gotten an x-ray of Locke?" Jack & Sawyer I can see, because they were knocked out.

#125. Posted by: Christina at October 26, 2006 7:52 PM

I totally agree w/the thoughts that the tumor is someone elses. I'm not buying the skuttle that Jack is there to save Benry. I thought i read somewhere that Jack was going to save an Other - but I'm pretty sure its NOT Benry.

I am a tad frustated w/the season thus far.... and the whole two island thing isn't making me happy.... i love LOST so i'm sure that i'll be MUCH happier in January - and if it wasn't for you Mac I'd be less happy :)

#126. Posted by: orighu at October 26, 2006 8:15 PM

@ Cesco

The phrase, "The rabbit died," came to be a euphemism for a positive pregnancy test in the late 1920 and early 1930s. Around 1927 it was discovered that if you injected the urine of a pregnant woman into a rabbit, there would be corpora hemorrhagica in the ovaries of the rabbit. These bulging masses on the ovaries could not be seen with out killing the rabbit to inspect the ovaries, so invariably, every rabbit died, even if the woman wasn't pregnant.

WGNABB!
(we gonna need a bigger bunny)

#127. Posted by: Debbie at October 26, 2006 8:24 PM

Great recap. If it wasnt for you, I would be (more) clueless.

The sub isn't the Other's.If it was it wouldnt be a "situaton"(am i the only one to notice how much the Others overuse that word) nor would it be "back"(unless it ran away).

Its Penny Widmore's.

#128. Posted by: Kasey Griffin at October 26, 2006 8:25 PM

OK OK!!!
I liked the episode! Anyway..if the tumor IS Locke's how would the "others" have his (Locke's) Xrays?

If Juliet is a fertility doctor then does that mean she came to the island from somewhere else? I suppose even if she were on the island her whole like I guess she could claim she was, but just thought that how she said it, it was like very serious...I also don't buy her "I'm not use to death thing" she's playing with Jack and I think he knows it.

#129. Posted by: Imissthefall at October 26, 2006 8:27 PM

Great recap. If it wasnt for you, I would be (more) clueless.

The sub isn't the Other's.If it was it wouldnt be a "situaton"(am i the only one to notice how much the Others overuse that word) nor would it be "back"(unless it ran away).

Its Penny Widmore's.

#130. Posted by: Kasey Griffin at October 26, 2006 8:27 PM

Great recap. If it wasnt for you, I would be (more) clueless.

The sub isn't the Other's.If it was it wouldnt be a "situaton"(am i the only one to notice how much the Others overuse that word) nor would it be "back"(unless it ran away).

Its Penny Widmore's.

#131. Posted by: Kasey Griffin at October 26, 2006 8:27 PM

A couple points:

The island where Kate, Sawyer and Jack are imprisoned is NOT the same as the "Other Island" where they have their little town set up. I believe the Others' town is on the SAME as the Losties' island.

That is because in the premiere, when the plane crashed, Ben told Ethan he could "run" to that shoreline in an hour. Obviously if it's on another island, he can't run there.

SO the hydra station (zoo) is on another island, but the Others' "town" is NOT on the same island as the Hydra station.

Also, I think the x-rays are Locke's. Obviously the Others can get stuff from the outside world, no reason they wouldn't be able to get Locke's medical records.

#132. Posted by: Jason Allen at October 26, 2006 8:29 PM

One more thing..there has been a lot of talk that Kate could be an other, but isn't that almost impossible to guarantee that she would survive the plane crash even if she or anyone else on that plane was?

#133. Posted by: Imissthefall at October 26, 2006 8:30 PM

I really think the gaping hole in KATE's cage (not Sawyer's) was purposeful.

Vikki - I agree that he tumor being Locke's makes the most sense.

Yes, they most definitely live on the major island. I think the Hydra is connected by an underwater tunnel.

That scene with the guy in the eye patch freaked me out. I hope the show doesn't turn scary. Weird I can take, but scary isn't what I'm looking for.

#134. Posted by: meg at October 26, 2006 8:43 PM

I also really think there is a chance that they are building Sawyer up for a "long con".

#135. Posted by: meg at October 26, 2006 8:45 PM

I think that they took Jack to cure Henry and the "other two" to make Jack cooperate...isn't this the plan Sayid had (keep three of the Others and kill the rest?) in episode 3.2? Is it a common technique with prisoners?

#136. Posted by: bethanybarker@gmail.com at October 26, 2006 8:53 PM

Does anyone else think it's not coincidental that:
Jack, the spinal surgeon, is going to operate on a spinal tumor for the Others.
Kate, the Fugitive, has a gaping hole in her cage, so she can ESCAPE?
Sawyer, the Con Man, has been conned?

Its like the Others are turning the tables on them.

#137. Posted by: Christina at October 26, 2006 8:57 PM

I hope no one has posted this yet, but polar bears are excelent swimmers. They could have swam from the Other's island to the Losties island easily.

#138. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 26, 2006 9:23 PM

Okay, I'm going to bring up the same point I made last time.

The 'Others' are in a time warp. They've been removed from civilization for all/most of their lives.

Who listens to 'Downtown'? But more importantly, they stopped killing bunning in the '60s (wasn't that Petula Clark's heyday?..)

Also, I've been to a 'fertility doctor' and they never call themselves that. They are Reproductive Endocrinologists or (REs). As a fellow doctor she surely would have said that, unless she went to medical school in the freakin' '60s!

Stupid point, but I'm hangin' on to it.

p.s. I would think getting a bleeding woman across the sea to another island, getting her on a stretcher and then carrying her to the facility would take time and be arduous. Just me.

I love Benry!!!

#139. Posted by: katiedlc at October 26, 2006 9:53 PM

Christina that is an excellent observation! It's like the Others are trying to make them wrestle with their own personal demons.

I really, REALLY hope Eko doesn't die next week, but he does seem to be the logical target. But WHY??!! In the previews he does appear to take a serious blow to the head. It also looks like he sets himself on fire (at least it looked like that watching the previews frame by frame). And the eye patch guy kinda looked like Jack in some kind of surgical mask. But, I suppose it could be a guy in a big yellow suit.
Actually, I read somewhere that the DeGroots would be discovered living in one of the underground hatches. Perhaps it's Gerald DeGroot?

#140. Posted by: Trinity at October 26, 2006 9:54 PM

Did anyone else think of the prosthetic eye the tailies found in the flame hatch back in season 2 when the eye patch guy showed up on the preview for next week?

#141. Posted by: Holly at October 26, 2006 9:55 PM

@ Cesco

The rabbit test was an early pregnancy test developed in 1927. It consisted of injecting the tested woman's urine into a female rabbit, then examining the rabbit's ovaries a few days later, which would change in response to a hormone only secreted by pregnant women. The hormone, human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), is produced during pregnancy and indicates the presence of a fertilized egg; it can be found in a pregnant woman's urine and blood. The rabbit test became a widely used bioassay (animal-based test) to test for pregnancy. The term "rabbit test" was first recorded in 1949 but became a common phrase in the English language.

Now, what I was wrong about was that the rabbit died if the woman was pregnant. In fact they all died because the rabbits had to be killed to check their ovaries.

#142. Posted by: Illusivemuse at October 26, 2006 9:57 PM

@debbie

thanks 4 that

#143. Posted by: kasey at October 26, 2006 10:01 PM

Something I just remembered from spoilerfix:

SPOILER ALERT!!!


"09/26 - [Kristin from E! said in her chat: "I'm hearing we'll see a one-eyed-wonder very soon. Think Daryl Hannah in Kill Bill except male and not previously amphibious."] It's a new character, late 40's. A formidable man, tough, a real survivor. A real sense of charisma and danger. Possibly recurring."
Eye patch guy mystery solved? Good call on the glass eye ball, Holly! I forgot about that!

#144. Posted by: Trinity at October 26, 2006 10:09 PM

Spinal tumor answers from a spinal surgeon (me): The AP lumbar radiograph is a pretty poor quality image. The radiodense lesion (which does not really resemble a typical spinal tumor) is in (or overlying) the second lumbar vertebrae, not the fourth, as Jack said. To answer the question of whether a lumbar tumor would cause paraplegia, or lower expremity paralysis: it is unlikely. A lesion this low, below the level of the termination of the spinal cord, may cause nerve root compression and neurological deficit(s) but is less likely to be the cause of a complete spinal cord syndrome like the one Locke appeared to suffer.

#145. Posted by: APW at October 26, 2006 10:26 PM

@Jason Allen: The island where Kate, Sawyer and Jack are imprisoned is NOT the same as the "Other Island" where they have their little town set up. I believe the Others' town is on the SAME as the Losties' island.

@ TribbieSt: Episode 1 of Season 3, when we see the Others' Main Street Suburban Neighborhood, the shot pans out and gives us a view of their little community ON THE SAME ISLAND as the plane crash .

Now I am confused. I also believe that Kate, Sawyer, and Jack are now imprisoned on the only island we have seen for two seasons and what Mac affectionally refers to as Dharmaland. It makes sense that the cages/aquarium/laboratories/hatches are all part of the Initiative. No need for water skiing polar bears either. So when Benry took Sawyer to view the second island - that island would be where the Other's lived. But then again the plane crashed on the same island as the Other's little southseas community. So can you see why I am confused? Help!

#146. Posted by: PAG at October 26, 2006 10:54 PM

Not to change the subject or anything, but a few episodes back,when Jack was bailed out by his exwife, the guy waiting outside was not the same guy at the school with her. Could Ethan Rom have been the "Other Man"? I found a web site using a post someone gave on this site to view some pictures, and I am pretty certain that the guy at the scool and the guy outside of the jail are two differant people.

#147. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 26, 2006 10:56 PM

Funny you should make the Batcave analogy, dudelost - did anyone else see the photos posted prior to the season premiere that had some sort of glass building carved out of a sandstone face overlooking what appeared to be Desmond's inlet, where his boat was moored? It looked like that there might have been some sort of opening at the bottom. This photo appeared with one of a giant hand skeleton, which may mean that they were foilers released by the producers. Still.....

Let me attempt to describe the island shore topography in relation to what I like to refer to as 'Hydratraz'.....

South / southwestern end: site of fuselage and beach camp

Western shore: impassable mountains featuring drainage of at least 2 rivers (seen in Exodus Part 2) Pala Ferry dock on northern side of range and not visible except for approach from the north. 'Othersville' is to northeast and totally hidden by crater's southeastern rim. 'Hydratraz' is to northwest of Pala Ferry dock and west of 'Othersville'; it is possible that the Hydra Station is part of a tunnel between the 2 islands. Same technology that powers Hatch EMF shield also renders smaller island virtually invisible. Flame Station is southwest of southeastern crater rim, Caduceus Station (aka Medical Hatch) to the southeast.

2 IMPORTANT NOTES:

Can it be that the Others intercepted the raft not just to abduct Walt but to prevent Sawyer, Jin and Michael from inadvertently discovering the smaller island? The raft's last position is estimated to be just south of where I'm presuming 'Hydratraz' to be, and.....

Remember, Dr. Arzt was very puzzled by the prevailing currents with monsoon season imminent - could they have been generated or somehow otherwise caused by the smaller island and instrumental in causing small water craft to 'sail around in circles?'

Continuing.....

Northern shore: site of Tail section crash, Arrow hatch to east / southeast of Tailie beach camp.

Eastern shore: fake Others settlement approximately 6 miles southeast of Tailie beach camp, giant 4-toed foot 2 miles south of the former, sandstone bluffs 3 miles further south (where Desmond's boat is moored) Cable discovered by Sayid, Hurley 2 miles south of sandstone bluffs.

Projected dimensions of big island:

North-south length, 12-15 miles

East-west width, 8-9 miles

Thoughts?

#148. Posted by: ogam5 at October 26, 2006 11:00 PM

@ogam5. Dude, that was awesome. Have you been writing this stuff down the whole time or did you see a map of the islands somewhere. That's some impressive marker detail.

#149. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 11:08 PM

I think that "Villa De Others" is on the same island as the Losties. That is why they do not want them to cross the imaginary line (that and the other island). The Others could be other castaways thoughout the years (remember they found an old ship), and then somehow DHARMA finds the island. They then start construction on the island. The Others may have known of the islands mysterious properties and did not want to leave or be discovered. They may have taken over the DHARMAians and may have accepted some of them into thier society. Juliet is a doctor. May be they took her in and brainwashed her. I do not know what I am talking about, just rambling.

#150. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 26, 2006 11:08 PM

Guten Nacht.

#151. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 26, 2006 11:13 PM

@katiedlc - Jack would be known/identified as a neurosurgeon - not a spinal doctor. I think the fertility and spinal doctor tags are to aid the majority lay public in understanding the show and not to mislead or provide additional clues.

#152. Posted by: djrmsn at October 26, 2006 11:20 PM

ogam5: I drew out the map as you explained it.

If correct, this leads me to a couple observations. 1) The cable found by Sayid, Hurley could NOT be going to "Hydratraz" as it is almost exactly on the entire opposite side of the island. Where does the cable go?

If I drew this correctly, you have Pala Ferry Dock and the fake Others camp on complete opposite sides of the island (Pala Ferry on extreme west, and fake o.c. on extreme east). Didn't it seem like Sayid, Sun and Jin sailed past the statue from the south, then got to fake o.c. where they discovered nothing and then just moments later they were at Pala Ferry Dock? They got around the whole top of the island in that short amount of time (past the Tailies former camp, past the crater and then to P.F. Dock). That doesn't seem right.

Also, where is the black rock located? Where is the Pearl? If you know...

Thanks.

#153. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 11:24 PM

Dudelost -

There have been a few evolving versions of computer-generated maps in the past year and, of course, the Swan blast door map - I would also add that, had Desmond not been forced to activate the Swan's failsafe mechanism, it's highly doubtdul that Sayid, Jin and Sun ever would've reached the Pala dock.....and that means 'Hydratraz' island is now accessible by water in some way.....

#154. Posted by: ogam5 at October 26, 2006 11:28 PM

@Holly: Good memory about the glass eye. I'll bet you're right -- it probably belongs to the mysterious eye-patch man we saw in the preview. But, I think the glass eye was actually found by the talies in the Arrow hatch, right? I don't believe we've actually seen the Flame hatch yet.

#155. Posted by: Luke Cordoba at October 26, 2006 11:34 PM

Do you have any links to the pictures you are talking about- the sandstone face, the skeleton hand, etc, or were they just shown in previews on TV?

#156. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 11:35 PM

Dudelost, you do bring up a few good points.....I've wrestled with just where the fake Others settlement is in relation to the Tailies camp, and at six miles southeast, that means it's about 2 1/2 miles down the eastern shore.....we don't know exactly how much time has elapsed since Ben, Tom, Ms. Klugh, Alex and Pickett ushered Jack, Kate and Sawyer off to Hydratraz, so it's not unreasonable to presume that they reached the Pala Ferry dock within an hour or so, depending on the current - if I had to guess, I'd say that it is more or less directly across the island from the four-toed foot statue.....

You are correct - the cable that Sayid and then Hurley stumbled across does not go to the Hydra station.....

The Pearl is, if the blast door map is accurate, centrally located to the greatest island mass (not including northern end) and the Black Rock (not the ship) 1 mile southeast of, and equidistant between, the Flame and Caduceus stations.....

#157. Posted by: ogam5 at October 26, 2006 11:41 PM

Two other points:

1)When in the Sawyer timeline was he in prison? You mean to tell me that after he is unrealistically convicted of larceny/fraud, having his 6+ sentence (we have no idea how much time he previously served) surprisingly commuted, he gets out and starts conning again? And then to make matters worse - after meeting with Robert Patrick he goes to Australia to kill his long lost namesake!

2) Why didn't Kate escape and try to get help? Though she doesn't know exactly where she is - she knows how long they traveled before they were captured and also how long it took them to get from there to where they are now. And she believes there is only one island. Isn't escape the first priority when captured? Isn't bringing back help the second?

#158. Posted by: PAG at October 26, 2006 11:52 PM

Thanks ogam5.

I have the 4 toed statue on the eastern shore and the Pala Ferry dock directly across the island on the western shore with the fake others camp ~2 miles north of the statue. Correct?

Couple other questions and then I'll stop. The beach Sayid took Shannon to. Is that to the west or east (towards the cable) of the fuselage camp? I would assume that the "caves" from S1 and S2 are almost directly south of the Pearl, correct? And (last one) where is Eko's brother's plane located?

Also, just observation, but from where that cable is on the map, I'm surprised that Rousseau never saw Des' sailboat, her "camp" appears to be pretty near the sandstone buffs....

Ok, I'm done. Thanks again.

#159. Posted by: Dudelost at October 26, 2006 11:53 PM

I agree with your conclusion regarding Rousseau - I can only imagine that there was something that had deterred her from venturing close enough to that inlet to see Des' boat in three or four years' time.....

Not sure about Sayid and Hurley's private beach, but I suspect that it's somewhere on the southern shore, southeast of the fuselage beach camp.....the caves are south of the Pearl, and the plane is actually now on top of that station as a result of Boone's death (see "?" ep from late last season.....)

#160. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 12:04 AM

One other thing that's really bugging me looking at this map. The location of "Otherville" doesn't appear to be right.

In the opening of S3, we see the Others standing outside watching 815 go down. The tail section goes down on what appears to be the right side (west?) of them and the fuselage appears to go down far to the left?

Maybe we have the map backwards? As in the Pala Ferry dock is on the extreme east coast with Hydratraz and the 4 toed guy is on the west coast? The tailies camp and the shore to the north of where you have Otherville now are reversed?

I think North and South coasts of the island are correct, but maybe west and east are reversed or a mirror image of what I have written down? That would make more sense as far as where the Others were when they saw the tail and fuselage sections go down.

Sorry, I thought I was done, but that was bugging me too much I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep. I'm going to sleep now.

#161. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 12:24 AM

Since no one else has said it...I just want to send a shout out to Mac for the hilarious reference to Bruce Campbell vs. the Army of Darkness. A housewares salesman at S-Mart lol!!! I just picture Bruce Campbell with the shotgun in his hand shouting at the top of his lungs..."This is my BOOMSTICK!!!" and "Shop smart...shop S-Mart. YOU GOT THAT!!!" Great stuff.

#162. Posted by: Brandonious at October 27, 2006 12:52 AM

How did Goodwin and Ethan both run from the "others" island to the "lost" island. I remember Benry telling them to run and that it should take an hour. They headed off in different directions.

Maybe the tumor was John Lockes.

#163. Posted by: Tara at October 27, 2006 12:59 AM

no way there is two islands. NO WAY. and mac i'm going to say it every review. i love you.
L~

#164. Posted by: Laura at October 27, 2006 1:04 AM

Mac's the max! But a couple things:

1. What's not to get about Jack not even thinking about bargaining for his friends' safety when presented with an opportunity to "save" someone? Jack is all about the healing - Hippocratic oath on steroids - to the exclusion of all else. We've seen this endlessly. It's his Obsession. (More on obsession in a minute.)

2. When Juliette bristles at Jack's suggestion that Benry's her leader, I think more's shown here than traces of some former-lovers'-quarrel. "We don't operate like that. We make decisions together." It's the failed working of the whole (post-)Dharma utopian model that Jack has unwittingly observed. I think we'll see more of that theme. Which leads to:

3. Ever since we saw Happyville/Walden II in S3E1, the Others, and what possibly went wrong with their experiments, have made much more sense. The glimpses of Happyville were the very image of B.F. Skinner's imaginary utopian commune. (Check out Skinner on wikipedia.) He was a very influential behaviorist and experimental psychologist who believed in combining technological advances with social conditioning, behavior modification, etc. Its theoretical heydey, if I'm not mistaken, was in the 1970s; so the social-engineering Hanso initiatives swam in these same theoretical currents.

One problem with behaviorism, etc., is that it has no place for complex human psyches. No human depth. We're all simply products of our immediate environment. (Skinner's best known book: _Beyond Freedom and Human Dignity_: human happiness is best achieved by discarding with these misleading concepts.)

So one hypothesis is that things went awry with the Dharma initiatives when they were met by the deeper messiness of human souls. (You can be either a "man of science" or a "man of religion" and believe this.) Utopia didn't work. The whispers on the island, the phantasmic appearances of persons or things (or horses!) that mattered most to the Losties, fetish objects (toy airplanes) - they all seem to reflect the intractability of particular human desires, scars, and depth. The stuff that makes us what we are.

Somehow this intractability overwhelmed the Hanso/Dharma experiments, and something, the human excess they couldn't control, is running amok on the island. (The "sticky ball" mentioned by Mr. Grimm last week?)

The Others have some inherited relationship to those 1970s defunct Hanso initiatives. But they're still trying to live in the Skinner-like utopian society. But that, too, is breaking down. I suspect that by season's end we'll be rooting for half of the Others (and half of the Losties). The lines will be redrawn.

At least I hope so. And I hope they provide us with some more substantial theme to hang these let-a-thousand-mysteries-bloom plots on.

#165. Posted by: iheartsayid at October 27, 2006 1:43 AM

Ok, I've been thinking about this whole 'time travel' theroy. Remember in Season 2 when Hurley ask Sayid to fix the radio, hoping they could find some music? They find and old song playing, and Hurley makes a comment about not where its coming from, but when...
Any thoughts?

#166. Posted by: dobber at October 27, 2006 2:02 AM

As usual, great recap Mac, thanks.

I have my, a little foolish, version about the two islands stuff.

Since Desmond has opened the multidimensional space-time door, I see there are not two islands; there is the same Island in two different space-time dimensions.
Absurd? May be; but not so much as the Sawyer prison con.

#167. Posted by: Gerardo at October 27, 2006 4:52 AM

Ok..someone in a previous post mentioned B.F. Skinner. So i went to Wikipedia to do a little light research on him. I saw that a Skinner box is something that Skinner himself created and that it is described as the exact same thing sawyer is in (the cage). I don't know what the connection is between the two, but I do know there IS a connecton.

#168. Posted by: Ross at October 27, 2006 5:34 AM

I believe an important clue was overlooked.
What are they doing to Karl? This was heard over the intercom in Jack's cell. If you will recall, Karl was the young man that occupied Kate's cage prior to her arrival. Any theories about little Karl?

#169. Posted by: WendyE. at October 27, 2006 6:34 AM

@Sue:

The island has healing abilities, but they don't heal everyone. Locke and Rose, and possibly Jin. In season 2 when Bernard took Rose to see Isaac of Uluruu, the healer in Australia, Isaac told Rose that he couldn't help her. He said there are places on the earth were the planet's "Magnetic properties" could be harnessed by people like him to heal others, but that his place was not the right place for her to be healed. The island has those properties to heal and it is the right place for Rose and Locke. Does the island heal? Yes. But not everyone, or else Boone, Shannon, Ana-Lucia, and Libby would all be walking around and in Ana's case sneering like there's no tomorrow.

@Kasey Griffin:

I don't think the sub belongs to Penny W. The "situation" that Ben reffered to was Colleen being shot, and when he said it was it back wasn't a reference to the fact that it ran away, rather he was refering to the fact that they had returned from their mission to steal the sailboat.

#170. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 7:33 AM

Dudelost, you're making a very common mistake - a lot of people incorrectly presumed that it was the tail section we saw in the very last teaser frame, but it was the COCKPIT to the left and the fuselage to the right; the tail section could only have landed in a location out of camera view (over cameranperson's left shoulder) especially given that Ben and Goodwin estimate no more than an hour or two to reach it by running. Thus, Othersville is in the island's northwest corner and Hydratraz, were it visible, somewhere to the immediate right side of frame.

#171. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 8:36 AM

Actually, iheartsayid, Skinner had a much greater influence on Fifties suburban America than the Seventies communal societies, although there were some belief systems embracing his principles in that decade as well.....without getting too deep into it, there is some substance to his thought about the power of conditioning, but only from birth and even then, such an approach has the potential to be very corrupted (as in socialism metastasizing into communism as a result of abject fear, narcissism and paranoia - just as organized religions were created to mitigate more animalistic human tendencies - and becaome hopelessly corrupted, so socialism was created to mitigate the economic expression of those tendencies, capitalism.....)

#172. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 8:51 AM

Mac, you are the MacDaddy of reviews.....GAFRAM and ROFLMAO!!!

I didn't get to watch the ep until last night, so I'm just reading the review and comments this morning and as always, you're brilliant....especially in comparison to some other reviews I started reading on this site, which shall remain nameless. (Can anyone say, "Rhymes with Zeroes"?)

WGNABB and Namaste

#173. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 8:56 AM

Thanks again, ogam5.

So, with that information are you saying that the cockpit landed most likely somewhere around Rousseau's camp, the sandstone bluffs, the 4 toed statue and Des' boat? Somewhere down in the southeast part of the island?

I thought about the cockpit but I swore I followed the tail section from when it was in the air until it hit the ground and swore it was to the right.

I'll have to re-watch it again.

#174. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 9:01 AM

That's right, dudelost - the cockpit landed closer to Danielle's camp, the Black Rock (ship) and antenna, but still deep in the jungle canopy and probably a bit closer to the fuselage.

As for your confusion about the tail section's trajectory, it's because the camera rotated to encompass the doves, Othersville and crater - another thing that might provoke confusion is the fact that spatial relations are slightly different in the air versus those objects viewed closer to the ground.....it's my belief that, while we couldn't see any identifying landmarks (nor would we have recognized them, either) in the frame where Ben views 815 breaking into 3 pieces, he's facing toward the west / northwest (this explanation is a bit oversimplified because it doesn't take into account the producer's limitations of real-life topographical consistency.....)

#175. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 9:17 AM

@Dudelost:

I think Ogam5 is right, sort of. The tail section crash probably wouldn't be visible on sreen. You see 2 columns of smoke coming from crash sites, those must be the cockpit and the feuselage. The tail section landed in the water and sank immediately, leaving no chance of a smoke column.

I might be wrong though, my initial impression on S3E1 was that you could see the smoke trails from the plane going down leading to the crash site of each section. I'll have to watch that scene again. Yes - I am so obsessed with Lost that I don't erase the eps from my DVR

#176. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 9:18 AM

Hey Mac,

I emailed you that jpeg of Crazy Danielle's island drawing. Hope you can post it. It clearly shows that she was aware of other smaller islands nearby.

#177. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 9:30 AM

Here's a link to a couple of the images of Crazy Danielle's map

http://www.lostlinks.net/maps.htm

#178. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 9:45 AM

Two things I have not seen mentioned that have me scratching my big 'ol melon head!! Hopefully someone can offer some insight...

(1) The hatch implosion. We see Locke and other folks looking at the hatch from the viewpoint of the original hatch door Locke discovered and that landed on the beach. However, has anyone bothered to go to the other hatch door, which was the primary entry point after it was discovered? Seems they would check that out immediately to see if anything is left over, like someone mentioned in an earlier post.

(2) Maybe one of you behavioralist noodle doctors can help with this one. Why are they showing cartoons, or anything, to Jack? I just can't grasp the reasoning there.

#179. Posted by: Saminator at October 27, 2006 9:46 AM

Here is another link to a map of the Losties island:

http://swirlee.org/media/2006/07/lost_map.jpg

It has the 4 toed statue being on the western coast of the island. This map makes a little more sense to me, specifically the relation between the statue and the Pala Ferry dock.

#180. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 9:53 AM

Another great review.
Thanks Mac.
Jo.

#181. Posted by: Jo at October 27, 2006 10:09 AM

http://podcasting.visuallink.com/~wincfm/lostmap.jpg
huge map of teh whole lost island and loads of info
otehr ppl hav posted it but its too small to read all of teh words if this image appears to small click on teh image and a bos appears in teh bottom right corner click it and it goes super size
its amazing enjoy!-

#182. Posted by: lordio at October 27, 2006 10:18 AM

Mac, I know everyone says it, but it's true that your reviews are as much a part of Lost as the show itself. I almost peed myself when you wrote "He's gonna blow!!!" while Sawyer was watching Kate undress.

I also had the feeling that Desmond made the storm happen and the lightning strike, not that he had a premonition it was going to happen.

I watch this show in HD. When Ben was showing the other island to Sawyer, the ONLY thing I could think about was how FAKE the other island looked! It was almost like they were standing in front of a poster of an island. Did anyone else feel that way?

#183. Posted by: HGB at October 27, 2006 10:27 AM

@HGB:

Why would Desmond want to make the lightning strike? What's his motivation for putting Claire, Aaron, and Charlie in danger like that?

#184. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 10:32 AM

What's Des' motivation to do anything on the island? Who knows? The guy is a total wildcard and a lunatic, IMO.

Having said that, I could see all of that changing and Des becoming the central figure in the whole show, moreso than Jack and Locke were in S1 and S2.

#185. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 10:40 AM

@Dude:

I agree the guy is a little unhinged. But wouldn't it make more sense that he saw the lightning strike as a premonition. Just like Locke's speech. Or did he make Locke give that speech by willing it to happen?

#186. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 10:42 AM

@Mr. Grimm:

It's still my opinion that Des can "see" the future rather than "shape" the future. Your example of Locke's speech is one of the primary reasons why.

If he can see the future, isn't it possible that he knows that Penny is looking for him, and his sole motivation is to keep himself safe and free for when she arrives, thus he doesn't care about anything right now other than survival, and not being captured so that he can leave when she, or rescuers, arrive?

#187. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 10:46 AM

Or can Des only see the future "on the island?"

#188. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 10:47 AM

Dude:

I agree with you, he can see the future and wants to stay safe. That's why I asked HGB what would be Des's motivation to cause the lightning to happen. I don't think he can cause events. He's seen future events and can take steps to change them, but I don't think he can cause the initial events to happen, especially if they are related to things outside of his immediate control.

Someone hypothesised that the island has the ability to manifest peoples desires. Hence the question: What is Desmond's motivation to desire lightning to strike Claire, Aaron, and Charlie if he is then going to set-up a lightning rod to prevent it. It would make more sense to just not want it to happen, if his desire for something results in it being manifested then all he simply has to do is desire that it not happen and it won't.

#189. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 10:55 AM

I would think that the real significance of Desmond's experiment, within the framework of the island's philosohpical didactics, is that Desmond proved he could change the future through action. Or at least, that is what seems to be implied.

Desmond (apparently) has precognitave knowledge of a lightning strike damaging Charlie and Claire's roof. He fashions a lighting rod and successfully redirects the lightning to prevent the damage. Desmond proves the metaphysical model of the universe as described in the Connor Axiom, "There is no fate but what we make". All those "destiny" guys on the island are going to be disappointed in that.

#190. Posted by: Deep Cover at October 27, 2006 10:56 AM

I'd have to say that Des can only see the future on the island. Otherwise, why would he have jumped on the Elizabeth right after leaving the Swan and tried to flee? If he knew Penny was coming eventually, might as well just stay put and not risk anything before that time.

#191. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 10:57 AM

At first I thought the time travel theory was wacked, and had no chance of panning out. Now I'm inclined to believe them. What if that guy who hates Sawyer (forgot name and no time to scroll back) is somehow related to him,no by blood but by circumstances. Sawyer had done something to hurt him or affect his life, and now we have gone back in time. This would fit with the music old, the old equipment and computers, all of it!

#192. Posted by: meg at October 27, 2006 11:03 AM

This may seem stupid and totally unrelated but where the heck are Rose and Bernard?

Also, as far as who the Xrays are, wouldn't it be almost impossible for them to be Locke's? I know the others can get info from somewhere but actual Xrays show they somehoe were delivered? But not totally out of the question I supposse since all that food was once dropped off?? Where do the others get all their food?

#193. Posted by: Imissthefall at October 27, 2006 11:16 AM

OK, I've read through all the comments and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet. If so, I apologize for the repeat.

What still bothers me about Kate popping out of the top of her cage is that the fake rocks or ledges or whatever in the cages go high enough to let her just walk up there. Granted, the cages are supposed to have been built for polar bears, who wouldn't be able to slide through, but don't you think the Others would have had the forethought to either remove those rocks or somehow secure the top of the cage?

The other thing that bothers is if the cages are under surveillance, why didn't a bunch of henchmen show up to capture Kate as soon as she popped out? Lends a little more credence to Kate being "compromised". Not that I think she really is, but it seemed like a pretty major gap in the story to have us believe that she escaped, tried to free Sawyer, adn then just went back in her cage without anyone noticing. Unless.....maybe the Others don't want Kate and Sawyer to know that they are under surveillance. Oh God, I'm so confused!!

WGNABBAB (we're gonna need a bigger boat and bunny)

#194. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 11:21 AM

Mr. Grimm, I agree that making lightning strike on purpose right there on the beach serves no purpose. It just SEEMED like he made it happen, not the other way around. Just a feeling I had, that's all. I agree it's more likely he knew it was going to happen.

#195. Posted by: HGB at October 27, 2006 11:29 AM

A tumor on the L5 verterbrae could cause paralysis of the legs.

#196. Posted by: Tom at October 27, 2006 11:33 AM

@Dudelost:

I think Des only started being able to see the future after he turned the failsafe key and was at the center of the hatch implosion. He ran from the Swan and tried to sail away from the island at the beginning of season 2 before the hatch implosion.

#197. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 11:34 AM

@Mr. Grimm:

You're right, brotha. There I go getting my timeline all messed up again. It's a frequent occurance, please forgive me.

On another note, did anyone get a little irritated when Charlie called Des "brotha" in the scene where Des was talking to Claire about the roof? It's cool when Des says it, not so much when Charlie says it.

#198. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 11:37 AM

That's what happen's when you make a move on a has-beens girlfriend. He starts acting like a wanker.

Charlie is IMHO the least interesting, least sympathetic character on the show. Maybe he can recruit the two new losties, Rodrigo & Blondie, and make a comeback as a folksie trio.

#199. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 11:39 AM

I agree with you that Charlie is the least interesting and least sympathetic character on the show.

Sometimes I wish the Others would capture him, tie him up and force him to listen to "You All Everybody," more times than I've heard that song in my head since first being introduced to it.

It's a burden I carry around everyday.

#200. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 11:49 AM

@ Dudelost:

I feel your pain.

#201. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 27, 2006 12:06 PM

Dudelost,
I've gotta say that I'm not as enamored with Desmond saying "Brotha" as you are. In the past it didn't seem so bad, but on this week's ep it seemed like he said it after every sentence. It's getting a little annoying. I do agree though that Charlie is most uninteresting. Can't they kill him off instead of Eko?

#202. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 27, 2006 12:23 PM

Someone mentioned about the island that henry shown sawyer looking fake.

I think thats mainly just the crap effects of the show, like the totally fake polar bear. Looks totally computerised. I think the show often have things which do look completely naff and i think its just another case of crappy filming and backgrounds than it meaning to be a fake beach.

Someone mentioned about Kate, Sawyer and Jack living up to their 3 traits. Kate escaping (crappy cage) Henry/Sawyer con and Jack doing his hero doctor type thing. I thought that was quite interesting.


#203. Posted by: Scott at October 27, 2006 12:32 PM

Jack has been wrong before so maybe he's wrong again. Maybe it was an old x-ray of Locke when he had the kidney taken out. If he's 50ish now, he was younger looking in the flashback (maybe 40ish). Didn't Ben say he was coming for Locke when he was in the hatch?
I still want to go with the Jack/Jack's dad theory. I can see his dad appearing in the last scene before the break.
Isn't this season an us vs. them plot? Maybe the "them" is the spooky eyepatch guy and his band of misfits. Maybe he's from the Island of Misfit Toys.
Nice catch on the glass eyeball. Also good theory on the Desmond/'04/lightening post.
I am unfamiliar with the whole Bermuda triangle thing but it sounds like they may be in one. The whole "trapped in time dimension" theory sounds right on.
As far as the Islands go, could there be underwater tunnels? Ethan and Goodwin could've ran through the tunnels.
I really hope Eko doesn't kick it but there are wayyy too many characters.

#204. Posted by: MrEko237 at October 27, 2006 12:37 PM

I don't know if this is out there yet...but I've decided that Juliet and Ben are probably siblings....possibly twins.

#205. Posted by: EyePatchGuy at October 27, 2006 12:53 PM

Dudelost, I totally stand corrected - went back and watched the foot statue scene; the motion is clearly from right to left, indicating the western shore.....as for the remarkably professional map (well, save for the misspelling of 'Aarow') posted earlier in this thread, it doesn't incorporate any of the Season 3 reveals, but I think that its placement of the statue IS correct. Strangely, though the mapmaker did not indicate where the fake Others settlement is in relation to it and the Pala Ferry dock.

While I can't locate Danielle's full-length island map to see whether it's consistent with the deck-level rendering included in a link to the blackrock.com map library, a thought struck me: if most of the hypothetical maps are based upon hers, then it's possible we've been operating on a misconception, which is very, very revealing if true.....what if the deck-level map is a view from the NORTH, not the south as we would immediately assume from the show's predominant perspective of the fuselage camp and relative to Danielle's territoire?

Think about it - if the French research ship crashed in the location indicated, the last water-based perspective Danielle might have would be approaching from the north or, less likely, northwest. She then would've drawn from her last visual memory.....

Check out the link and the last example:

http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/24/42/

Look what appears with this shift in perspective! The Othersville crater is front and center and, sure enough, what do we see to the northwest but what surely must be.....HYDRATRAZ? The proportions are a match. I also suspect that the notes in French regarding the sea in that area are very relevant as well.....how the research team would have been able to see Hydratraz must remain a mystery, however.....

Finally, if the placement of where the Others kidnapped Walt is accurate, then it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt my other theory: that the Others blew up the raft to prevent Sawyer, Jin and Michael from discovering Hydratraz, VERY close by as the newer map would suggest.

#206. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 1:02 PM

What is the small, landmass that is labeled "Alex" in the black and white maps toward the bottom (southeastern part of island)?

#207. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 1:18 PM

Question:
If the island fixed John and Rose's medical issues, why doesn't Ben hang out over there for a while and get the tumor cured by the island? Or would it come back when he returns to the Others' island...

#208. Posted by: sara at October 27, 2006 1:21 PM

Anyone else find it interesting that Ben compared the second Island to Alcatraz. It seemed like a really arbitrary island to pick for a size comparison. Did he mention Alcatraz perhaps to reinforce the idea of a prison?

#209. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 27, 2006 1:22 PM

Please, PLEASE could we stop ganging up on the character of Charlie? (And while we're at it, stop acting like we're apprentices of Vidal Sassoon or Paul Mitchell? ENOUGH with the hairstyle criticism already! Charlie does NOT now sport a 'mullet'!) I cracked up when Charlie said 'brotha' to Desmond becuase it was so clearly condescending.....like Shannon, Charlie is actually a very sympathetic character and Dom's masterful portrayal of him in "Fire + Water" revealed as much.....his character and Locke are very similar.

As for Kate and the cage with such easy egress, for some reason the Others set up the exercise counting on her to avail herself of it, given Kate's chronic need to flee unpleasant situations.....

Finally, I thought at first that Desmond was trying to determine how and why the rain is so localized on the island by building what is known as a 'cloudbuster' ('google' Wilhelm Reich) but it became clear that he was fashioning a lightning rod in anticipation of it striking Claire's tent.....also, who was the first person to be able to predict the weather? Locke, who took some sort of prolonged interest in mother and child. And is Desmond's newfound interest in Aaron's (and Claire's) well-being actually on Locke's behalf, a result of his and Locke's consciousness becoming linked by the Swan implosion?

#210. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 1:28 PM

Re: the map.

I'm totally confused by that last post, ogam5 (no surprise). Are we now saying that Rousseau's camp is close to the northern most point of the island? And that the Losties beach camp is on the Northeastern side of the island and that the Tailies camp and Otherville are on the Southern part of the island (switching North/South, East/West) from what we previously thought?

#211. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 1:32 PM

Dudelost, I'm guessing you posted that comment before having a chance to look at Danielle's deck-level map.....by the altered perspective, if the Alex reference is accurate, it means that Danielle knows she was brought to Hydratraz after being kidnapped - - in the northwest, not the southeast as with the previously assumed perspective - again, I don't have the benefit of Danielle's island-length map.

Sara, I think that, for some reason, Ben and possibly other Others are unable to enjoy the benefits of the EMF shield/meteor interface (there is almost certainly more than one crater where meteor fragments - the 'falling star' frequently referred to? - fell.....possibly a flaw in their genetic code - or engineering, if they are in fact clones. Speaking of which, Ben has to be a product of DHARMA if he's lived on the island all his life, and the Others united later on, possibly at the behest of Mittlewerk (they may have killed the original overseers of DHARMA on the island, thinking that it was their moral imperative (there is a distinctly righteous attitude to Ben, Goodwin and Ethan)

#212. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 1:43 PM

@ogam5 - I have been seriously pondering your pleas on Charlie's behalf. After considering your points, I have to agree with the idea to lock him up and make him listen to "We are (or is it all) Everybody" over and over again. Ha, that's the funniest thing I've read all day.

#213. Posted by: meg at October 27, 2006 1:44 PM

Bare with me here, ogam5. I'm still "lost".

So we're now saying that the landmass labeled "alex" is on the northern part of the island, not the south, as previously thought. So make "alex" the NW part of the map. alex = hydratraz, and Rousseau was taken there after her capture.

Which leads me to the question - how did Rousseau get back to the Losties island if that is the case. Did they simply snatch Alex from her and dump her off at the Losties island after they took Alex?

I'm pretty close to understanding this (I think) but just need those questions answered to confirm.

#214. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 1:49 PM

No, dudelost, everything EXCEPT the intended perspective of Rousseau's deck-level map are the exact same - all I'm saying is that if you put yourself in Danielle's shoes looking at the island as the French research team's ship approaches from the north or northwest before crashing (possibly with 'help'?) then the location of both Othersville and Hydratraz are very clear.....

#215. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 1:50 PM

I think that the Others are trying to brainwash Jack (maybe Sawyer and Kate too). Notice how quickly Jack sat in his corner when Juliette came in. Also, the cartoons. It looked like the old propaganda cartoons from the forties and fifties. Coleen was pretty much already dead when the brought her back from the dock. I think they had Juliette act all scared to make Jack think that she NEEDED him. I thought it was great when he told her he couldn't care less how she feels.

#216. Posted by: snk at October 27, 2006 1:58 PM

@ogam5

Gotcha.

We need a better, more current map, a bigger boat, an escalator, and a couple of bunnies.

My head hurts. TGIF.

#217. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 2:00 PM

Yeah, you've got it, Dudelost - can't be positive, but I don't think Danielle ever suggests that they captured her, only Alex - and given how ridiculously close Hydratraz is to the French research camp site, it probably would've been a breeze for them.....last thought: if the ship crashed in 1988, then the original DHARMA Initiative had already fallen apart due to the later series of 'incidents'.....

#218. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 2:01 PM

For all the folks asking for a link to the big map (since provided) I can only paraphase a character from "Galaxy Quest": "Do any of you ever actually READ this blog?"

Back out of this week's entry, scroll down about 13 items and you will see [Get Your "Lost" Bearings with Enormous Map], wherein Mac provided a link way back in July.
-----
Well, so much for my 'Only Hurley can see Desmond' theory - blasted almost at the beginning of this week's episode.
-----
My wife and I have been commenting on the width of the cage bars at the *bottom* since they first were shown... 'bet Evangeline Lilly could squeeze through those'.

#219. Posted by: Cecil Rose at October 27, 2006 2:03 PM

.....also, it's possible the Pala Ferry is actually NORTH of the crater (which looks suspiciously like Diamond Head in the foreground) and Othersville on the western shore.....but if that's the case, it would probably be vusible to Sawyer (and us?) when Ben brings him up to view the big island......

#220. Posted by: ogam5 at October 27, 2006 2:08 PM

@Cecil Rose: Sorry your theory was blown to bits, but A for effort! If it makes you feel any better, I quite liked it and would have enjoyed seeing them recycle the "I see dead people" line.

#221. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 2:32 PM

hey mac, great review. So glad I stumbled across your reviews! Been reading for two seasons now, but I"m a first time blogger..... Just had to bring this up - NO one has mentioned the grave at the top of the mountain! Didn't anyone catch that? There was a wooded cross stuck in the ground when Sawyer and Ben climbed to the top of the mountain.......any thoughts?

#222. Posted by: (lost in minnesota) at October 27, 2006 2:45 PM

I totally missed the wooden cross at the top of the hill Benry and Sawyer were on. I'll have to go back and watch that scene again and look for it.

#223. Posted by: Dudelost at October 27, 2006 3:32 PM

@lost in minnesota -

Yes, I did see the cross also. I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it. I remember that it struck me at the time because we thought there was initially a possibility that Benry & company were taking Sawyer up there to kill him. I thought that sort of fit when I saw the cross, like it was a makeshift graveyard or something.

Also, anyone notice the similarity of what Jack was doing to Juliet with the whole "should I talk to Ben? he seems to make the rules" spiel and what Ben did to Locke when he was held captive in the hatch? Just found that interesting.

Someone above wondered why the Losties didn't go check out the other door of the hatch to see if anything was left. I could be mistaken, but I thought when Charlie and Locke were standing before the huge hole in the ground, that was the former hatch, and there was nothing left.

#224. Posted by: Amy at October 27, 2006 3:46 PM

I believe it was not a cross, but one of those bullhorn speakers (same type that was shown when they moved Jack past Sawyer and Kate) on a pole. What's a speaker doing up there? "Danger! Danger! All Others please return to the Hydra and don your Dirty Legged Other garb! A makeshift raft is approaching!"

#225. Posted by: Darryl at October 27, 2006 3:48 PM

@Darryl: I did see the speaker there. I don't remember the cross. Is it possible both were in the shot? I;ll have to go back and re-re-re-etc.-watch the ep.

#226. Posted by: Trinity at October 27, 2006 3:55 PM

Looking forward to the break in Season 3 so that my significant other can take a break from these boards.

See you soon honey, we miss you.

#227. Posted by: Wife Lost at October 27, 2006 3:55 PM

@ Wife Lost:

Mrs. Mac, is that you? ;)

#228. Posted by: Trinity at October 27, 2006 3:58 PM

@Wife lost -

I think that comment was meant for me.

Hi honey. See you soon. : )

#229. Posted by: Amy at October 27, 2006 4:13 PM

Mr. Mac,
YATKOALER! GAFRAM!

I totally dig the theory that Benry and Juliette are twins.

Jack's dad is dead. As in "as a doornail". The x-rays are not his. He will not be a part of the show anymore except in flashbacks. Or hallucinatory visions ala Boone. Period.

The 2 'new' Lostaways aren't doing much for me yet. I'd rather see more of the current characters than spend any time on them.

I can't wait to see where Desmond's ability to see the future goes. Looks to be the immediate future only so far. Pretty cool development and obviously a result of being at implosion ground zero. Still hoping for the flashback of the time directly after the implosion to see EXACTLY what happened to Des, Eko, & Locke. And to see where the heck Charlie was- I thought he was still with Eko when it happened.

#230. Posted by: JoePike at October 27, 2006 4:34 PM

The Others didn't rush to re-capture Kate when she got out of her cage because they (Benry especially) knew Sawyer would talk her out of it and keep her there.

I've got it. It's an underwater escalator connecting the 2 islands...

#231. Posted by: JoePike at October 27, 2006 4:40 PM

Is there a Doctor in the house, or maybe a radioligist? Can you really look at an X-ray and see that it is a 40 yr old male. Can the age be pin pointed that exactly. Could it have been a 35ish or 45 yr old. I believe the x-ray could have been an old one of Locke's. If the others can get autopsy records then they can get x-rays don't you think.

Loved the nod to Pulp Fiction but where did they see the movie.

Mac, your married - my heart is broken

#232. Posted by: IHEARTSAWYER at October 27, 2006 4:47 PM

Then again, I guess if they can get autopsy records they can get a copy of the movie too. Duh!

Anyone think it's funny that while boxing in prison Sawyer bested a large man but on the island he has been beaten by a smallish man and 2 girls.

#233. Posted by: IHEARTSAWYER at October 27, 2006 4:51 PM

@ Joepike

Why would Sawyer talk her out of leaving? Benry only told him he couldn't TELL Kate about what happened to him, he said nothing of talking her out of escaping. Now that being said, they might expect him to try to convince her, but why would they risk that? If you recall, when Karl escaped, they were all over him like white on rice. Yet, Kate has time to climb up the rocks, slide out, climb down, try to break the lock on Sawyer's cage, and climb back up and back in to her cage, and not one Other is to be seen for miles around. It just isn't adding up. Maybe the elevator broke...or was it an escalator? I can't remember....

#234. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 4:55 PM

socompletelylost

Sawyer told Kate to leave. He said everyman for himself, leave me. I think the others just wanted to see what Kate would do. When Carl and Sawyer escaped, Sawyer was able to run a little way before Juliette zapped him. If Kate had gone very far, I'm sure they would have caught her.

#235. Posted by: iheartsawyer at October 27, 2006 5:01 PM

@socompletelylost:

I think the Others were still watching her the whole time. If she started to run, I'm sure they would have snatched her up just like Karl. I'm inclined to think they wanted to watch her and see what she would do. This is what a behaviorist would do.

#236. Posted by: Amy at October 27, 2006 5:03 PM

Amy

Great minds think alike

#237. Posted by: iheartsawyer at October 27, 2006 5:04 PM

@ Iheartsawyer...I agree that Sawyer told her to go...that's my point. Joepike said above that the Others didn't show up bc they knew Sawyer would talk her out of it.

I have to go home now and won't be able to check in until Monday...sadly, my hard drive got fried last night, so I have no computer access at home. Not sure how I will survive the weekend : (

#238. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 5:05 PM

@ Amy....good point, that hadn't occured to me.

Bye for now!

#239. Posted by: socompletelylost at October 27, 2006 5:07 PM

@ Amy and Iheartsawyer

I completely agree. The Others were either engrossed in the surgery at this point or were monitoring Kate to see what she would do. I think that they knew she wouldn't leave without Sawyer and that Sawyer wouldn't leave for fear of them hurting her.

One step farther with this, I don't think that the cages were meant to house the bears. I think that they were meant to train or test the bear's intelligence. The Others are not stupid people. Why would they put Kate in a cage with basically stair blocks up to a hole. I am sure that if she would have gotten very far away Zeke would have popped out from behind a bush, thrown her back in the cage, and said, "It only took the bears two hours to figure that out."

Finally, no one else has picked up no this, but does anyone have the closed captioning of what Juliet was rambling to Jack after he asked for defibrillator? I could have sworn that she mentioned something about being alone for a long time, or that they haven't come in a long time...Can anyone confirm?

#240. Posted by: ac at October 27, 2006 6:01 PM

ac

I think Juliette said the defilrillator was broken, they had not needed it for a long time, but I could be wrong. I don't have close caption either.

#241. Posted by: iheartsawyer at October 27, 2006 6:05 PM

Just thought I'd comment that the emphasis on rabbits here has another connection to Of Mice and Men--Lennie, the big and mentally challenged character in that book, wants to get the farm with George, a small and quick-witted man, because then Lennie will be able to raise rabbits. Not sure what to make of this connection, but it's interesting--especially since Lennie is prone to killing all the soft creatures he prizes (the puppy mentioned by Sawyer, for instance). No doubt if he and George had ever actually bought that farm (hmm--another death-related saying), there would've been dead rabbits galore.

#242. Posted by: dogsbody at October 27, 2006 6:38 PM

The "white" bunny with the number 8 "in black" in a steel cage is from a Stephen King book called "on writing". Another King reference

#243. Posted by: bill at October 27, 2006 7:00 PM

WHERE ARE BERBARD AND ROSE!!!?????!?!?!?!?!?!

Seriously!! I really liked them. I thought the moment and the beach with Rose and Locke was one of the best moments of LOST!

#244. Posted by: Imissthefall at October 27, 2006 9:01 PM

Also!!
Where has Roussaau been? And what role do you think Alex will play in this season? When she was talking to Kate in the bushes she asked about a guy, was it the guy in the cage?


One more thing..why did they handcuff Jack to the dead body? When someone asked Ben if they should get him he said no let him sit with her a while longer. Why?

#245. Posted by: Imissthefall at October 27, 2006 9:04 PM

Hey Mac...

Just wanted to say I enjoyed the "Glass Joe" reference with regards to Benry kicking Sawyer's butt in.

In short, Glass Joe was the first oponent you faced in the original Nintendo systems "Mike Tyson's Punchout" (and maybe the same for the original Punchout?). With a super punch to the jaw, he went down quick and funny.

Damn - the nostalgia makes me want to hunt down y'olde ancient sytsem from the garage, and see if it still works. Perhaps blow on the cartridge, and hope all works well when I insert? Of course, I could just download an emulator...

#246. Posted by: Shikotee - aka - Sodapopinski at October 27, 2006 9:41 PM

Yeah...

What about that Rousseau?

How could she have spent all those years on the island, and not have encounters with the Others, or with any of the stations? Look how long the plane survivors have been there, and look how much they have discovered.

The only "other" thing that comes to mind is that the Others went out of their way to freak her out, and limit her travel around the island. But for that long?

No doubt, isolation would mess up her head, but you would think that she would put in more of an effort to hang with the survivors, just because she can! Of course, solitude for so long could make her dislike being around people.

#247. Posted by: Shikotee at October 27, 2006 10:03 PM

Actually - the more I think about it - no doubt the Others totally messed with her.

Look at all the whacky psychological stuff they've pulled on people.

#248. Posted by: Shikotee at October 27, 2006 10:15 PM

Mike NYC...AMEN Brother

#249. Posted by: mike v at October 27, 2006 11:05 PM

@Sue -- like your thoughts on time travel!

@Mr. Grimm -- thanks for getting Danielle's island map posted/shared. I, too, had seen it a long time ago and thought that reference/sketch of another island was interesting.

@ButchM -- based on spoiler info I've read on other boards, Penny won't be back until after the break (ugh. I am DREADING the break. Simply dreading it)

Ok - more thoughts:

Daddy Issues....since the end of last season I have been wondering WHY the Others specifically and deliberately chose Kate, Jack and Sawyer. The common link that I keep coming back to is Daddy Issues. All three of them had 'em. In big ways. Not sure how this plays out, but it "feels" right for some crazy reason.

Eyepatch guy -- anyone lese noticed that he only has four fingers?

Oh, according to info from a LOST podcast, the producers say there ARE other Others in other places (got that?) and they are all not in the Hydra station. Might support the theories about Others being on both islands.

#250. Posted by: GatorGal at October 27, 2006 11:17 PM

@luke, Vikki and Trinity:
I've been reading through info on lots of other sites and most seem to agree that it will be EKO who dies next week. Most reliable sites/spoliers all agree that it is NOT Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Ben, Juliet or Locke. Whoever it is "will be suprising" say the spoilers. Stay tuned, huh?

#251. Posted by: GatorGal at October 27, 2006 11:41 PM

Just two observations/questions.
1) Along with Eko Charlie Desmond and Locke that expolosion must have ennihilatd the somewhat dwindling food supple in the pantry. How are some many survivors eating. Mind you they looked pretty well off when you see that new character mindlessly launching perfectly nice limes into the ocean.
2) Who is the girl locke is with when the weird man is spotted. Very pretty but very new looking. And it seems to me that he is caught on camera in teh hatch that was blown up. Anyone else agree disagree.
Lordio

#252. Posted by: Lordio at October 28, 2006 6:23 AM

@ GatorGal

Interesting theory on the daddy issues of our BIG three.

The eyepatch guy had 4 fingers? Maybe the statue with 4 toes was one of his ancestors :>)

Eko - no, no GatorGal, say it isn't so!

#253. Posted by: ButchM at October 28, 2006 11:10 AM

I think Rousseau's sketch is of Hydratraz as seen from The Island, and I think it explains why Hydratraz is not normally seen. Examine http://www.lostlinks.net/images/oceanicmapenglish.jpg

"The sea that one sees, dancing along clear gulfs of silver reflections"

"Silver reflections of the sea, changing reflections at the edge of (whatever)"

And the equations, which look to me like an attempt to approxtimate the trigonometry you would need when calculating the refraction of light.

She is trying to work out how an island can be cloaked! Think about how a mirage works - surely this must be the explanation!

#254. Posted by: Danny at October 28, 2006 11:14 AM

@ Lordio

I wondered the same thing - what in the world are they eating? It seems as if eating is never an issue at all, as if they are all on a satiable edition of "Survivor" and are waiting around for Jeff to pop out and tell them what their reward challenge will be. I don't get it with the food thing since the hatch has blown up.

#255. Posted by: ButchM at October 28, 2006 11:14 AM

I, for one, will be extremely distressed if it is Eko that bites it next week. He has been in my top 3 since the first ep we saw him on.

I think they need to reprint those "Save Walt" shirts and turn them into "Save Eko"....

#256. Posted by: Vikki at October 28, 2006 11:29 AM

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but, how did Ethan and Goodwin run to the plane wrecks if they were on a whole different island.

#257. Posted by: IcebergSlimm at October 28, 2006 11:55 AM

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but, how did Ethan and Goodwin run to the plane wrecks if they were on a whole different island?

#258. Posted by: IcebergSlimm at October 28, 2006 11:55 AM

@ Illusivemuse

Just to set the record set, I said you were wrong because you said that doctors would inject a pregnant woman's "blood", not "urine". So, I just posted the link to the Urban legend definition, that's all!
But thanks for the piece of history!!!

#259. Posted by: Cesco at October 28, 2006 11:57 AM

I belive the Village part is on the main island...remember when the showed the sence in the first episode they did a zoom out and it looked like it was on the same island as the big one. I think that island is like where they do expirments and stuff like that

#260. Posted by: Evan at October 28, 2006 4:59 PM

I agree with Mr. Grimm, regarding Desmond's ability to "see" the future. Desmond seemed to be really fuzzy/confused on the episode where he talked about Locke's speech. Like he couldn't get a grasp on what was going on in his head. With Clair's hut he started off seeming confused -- wanting to fix her roof, when it wasn't damaged yet. Then, he seemed to start to get a handle on it, and built the lightning club pole. He seemed almost giddy when the lightning actually hit it, like, happy he had correctly figured out and interpreted what was going on in his head.

#261. Posted by: lost chao at October 28, 2006 5:26 PM

First time posting here but i did want to make a comment with reguard to the way kate has been acting. I think that during her private time on the beach with Ben she was given instructions in the same sense that Sawyer was given instructions. I think that she was told to keep in line, that she was being watched and that if she tried to escape Sawyer would die. Aswell, i think the only reason she tried to escape was because she saw that the others had broken Sawyerand when she realised how far gone he was she went back to her cage.

#262. Posted by: Jmarlbro at October 28, 2006 11:04 PM

Benry: "The only way to gain a con man's respect is to con him."
Why would they want to gain Sawyer's respect?

#263. Posted by: Maxlife at October 29, 2006 1:59 AM

@GatorGal:

Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is scheduled to appear on "Regis and Kelly" next Thursday. Maggie Grace (Shannon) and Michelle Rodriguez (Ana Lucia) each appeared on "Regis and Kelly" the day following the episode where they died. I'm pretty sure Eko is toast.

Tailies seem to have a short life expectancy!


#264. Posted by: Luke Cordoba at October 29, 2006 2:26 AM


With the season 3 appearance of JULIET - Just where is the African-American "doctor" who was in charge of WALT in the last episodes of season 2?

#265. Posted by: Davidrh at October 29, 2006 8:45 AM

Luke Cordoba....you're killing me! Yet another clue that it will, indeed, be Mr. Eko who bites it. But, maybe he will reappear sometime in the future, a la Boone....

Jmarlbro....I agree that things just don't seem right with Kate. I hope that what happened to her between eating with Benry and showing up at the cages is revealed to us at some point. I am not so comfortable with the "relationship" she has seems to have formed with Tom/Zeke...I would have been interested to see his reaction should she have taken him up on the offer to get him if the clothes didn't meet her satisfaction.....we shall see!

#266. Posted by: Vikki at October 29, 2006 9:20 AM

@ Luke Cordoba
@ Vikki
@ GatorGal

Let's hope it is Regis and Kelly who bite the dust rather than Mr. Eko.
Hey, if Mr. "E" is gone, that doesn't do a whole lot for the rescue mission, does it? Good grief, it sure doens't make sense to get rid of one of the most likable characters.

@ Davidrh - We are all wondering what became of Klugh.

#267. Posted by: ButchM at October 29, 2006 12:21 PM

I was wondering the same thing. What happened to Klugh? She was an intruiging (Gosh I wish this had a spell check!) character. Seems a shame they haven't brought her back yet.

Maybe Mr. Eko got a dui or something?

Let's all hope it's Jack instead!

#268. Posted by: meg at October 29, 2006 12:25 PM

Benry probably wants Saywer's respect because they may have a plan that involves him. If they know as much as they lead everyone to believe, then they know that Saywer is a prison snitch, and that he used trusted information to FREE himself before. Maybe they will use him against Jack or the other Losties.

#269. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 29, 2006 1:22 PM

@ButchM-"Let's hope that it is Regis and Kelly who bite the dust rather than Mr. Eko."

As Desmond would say "Amen Brotha"
(It really is a shame that we cannot type accents.)

#270. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 29, 2006 1:29 PM

That would be so freekin stupid to kill off Eko. I mean be honest when locke and eko get together its sweet (?) If eko dies ill be pretty pissed off cause hes really B.A I hope just one of those like new people die somthing like that.

Also i think everything that we have seen on the island is signifigant somehow..im guessing we will no more about that glass eye

#271. Posted by: Evan at October 29, 2006 1:35 PM

I agree that losing Eko would de terrible. I take solice in hoping that he may stick around spiritualy for Locke. Kind of like (I am truly sorry for this referance) Obi Wan to Luke.

#272. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 29, 2006 1:42 PM

When we see the plane breaking and falling into the ocean in both at the beginning of an episode in season 2 also this season why are no people falling down towards the ocean?
This supports a theory i read that the others have control of time and temporarily stopped time and injured the others and simulated the crash??????

#273. Posted by: Lordio at October 29, 2006 1:51 PM

SPOILER ALERT

Eko is listed for the 6th episode so he can't die in 'The cost of living'

#274. Posted by: maestr06 at October 29, 2006 1:58 PM

As Mr. Burns would say, "Excelent".

#275. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 29, 2006 2:02 PM

@maestr06

Just because Mr.Eko is listed for the 6th episode, does not mean he cannot die in the 5th. The 6th episode might need to use his body, or he could appear in a flashback, or even in a Lockian island vision.

But totally - kill off the new lame characters, instead of someone as interesting as Eko.

#276. Posted by: Shikotee at October 29, 2006 2:08 PM

D'oh!

#277. Posted by: Batteries Included at October 29, 2006 2:12 PM

@Danny

Awesome link to the Rousseau sketch, and good analysis.

#278. Posted by: Shikotee at October 29, 2006 2:39 PM

SPOILER ALERT

Taken from scifi.com

Serenity's Fillion On Lost

Serenity star Nathan Fillion guest-stars on the Nov. 8 episode of ABC's hit series Lost, "I Do," which also marks the decision by Kate (Evangeline Lilly) to hook up with either Jack (Matthew Fox) or Sawyer (Josh Holloway). Fillion will play a character named Kevin in the episode, which is the last new one for a while as the series takes a 13-week hiatus, returning in February.

In "I Do," Jack makes a decision regarding Ben's (Michael Emerson) offer, Kate feels helpless when it looks like an angry Pickett (Michael Bowen) is going to make good on his threat to kill Sawyer, and Locke (Terry O'Quinn) discovers a hidden message that may guide him through the next steps on his journey to unlocking the secrets of the island.

#279. Posted by: Shikotee at October 29, 2006 2:42 PM

Just finished the comments above and would like to do a "what if"-
First, I too thought of Locke with the x-ray tumor issue. But the theory that links the Others' con of Sawyer, the con man, the escape cage for Kate, the escapist, does not work for Jack, the fixer. UNLESS, THE TUMOR IS JACK'S. He cannot "fix" himself, but must trust another to do it (Juliett?).

What if the Hydra place was once a Dharma Sea World? With entrances and exits for showing their "conditioning" with orcas, etc. Then the holding tanks and interconnecting tubes might make more sense.
Namaste-

#280. Posted by: stontilam at October 29, 2006 3:06 PM

Great Review!

I think that Jack didn't response to the Juliet call for help in the first place because he was in "doctor mode" and he wants to help his new sweetie. Therefore, after spending a few hours in the company of a dead body, he figured things out.

#281. Posted by: Miss.M at October 29, 2006 4:29 PM

@Luke Cordoba and ButchM -- sigh. I do agree and think that the writing is on the wall for our good pal, Mr. E. Of course, I would be thrilled to be wrong. I did read on some other sites that it is Charlie. However, the Nov. 1 episode is Eko-centric, which does not bode well. The prodcuers have said that once they feel like they have compted a character's "arc" and told their story, then it is time for them to go. Hmmmm.

Also, someone in the posts above was hoping for more info. into Juliet's background. You'll get your Juliet back story. The Feb. 7 episode (good grief that sounds like a terribly long time away!) is Juliet-centric and titled "Not in Portland."

#282. Posted by: GatorGal at October 29, 2006 4:47 PM

@Meg:

Actually... he did!

"Lost star Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is free and clear of two misdemeanor charges in Hawaii after prosecutors dropped their case against him.

The actor, who plays Mr. Eko on the ABC series, was charged with driving without a license and disobeying a police officer after being pulled over Sept. 2. "

But, I don't think that had any influence on his character's on-screen fate. The script for this week's episode would've been finalized long before Sept. 2.

#283. Posted by: Luke Cordoba at October 29, 2006 4:48 PM

@Luke - Wow! I finally got one! :) And I was just being sarcastic. Certianly these stars earn enough to hire a limo, hire a driver, or at least call a cab and get their car the next day! Geez!

I am eager to see an episode that is centered around the past of one of the Others. It could give us a view into how they got there, or a view into how they are the "good guys". Wouldn't it be funny if in the end it worked out that way?

#284. Posted by: meg at October 29, 2006 4:57 PM

I've been reading (and listening to)all of the interviews with the Lost producers that I can find (both current and past, which are actually pretty telling). Here are some of the juciest tidbits from Carlton, Javier and JJ:


"This season (#3) will be more on the character axis than the mythological axis."

"Next year (from interview given over the summer after S2, before S3)we want to service the relationships next year more than the mythology" Sounds like we won't be learning anything about that stone foot anytime too soon.

Prodcuers ahve also said that the hieroglyphics on the timer (in the hatch) translate to "underworld." That should be fun to discuss!!

And, the latest....
Jack has met one of the Others back in the real world and this relates to why he is the one they (the Others) can cooperate with. And, there are other Others in other places. Not all are in the Hydra Station. Hmm -- maybe that accounts for where Mrs. Klugh is.

"Kate has been married before to a guy named Kevin." Actor Nathan Fillion plays this guy on the Nov. 8 episode.

#285. Posted by: GatorGal at October 29, 2006 5:09 PM

Was it not mentioned on a previous post that in one of Jack's backstories (I think it was the 1st Ep of S3), Zeke was in the operating room?

Could the x-ray be his?

#286. Posted by: Shikotee at October 29, 2006 5:20 PM

Perhaps the Others Suburbian paradise is, in fact, on the main island, and only the Hydra Station is on the mini island?

#287. Posted by: Chris at October 29, 2006 6:20 PM

I can only presume, Danny, that you've read my postings regarding the issue of what perspective is Danielle's sketch (since you referred to the smaller island as 'Hydratraz') Your observations about those bizarre equations are very illuminating, especially since she labeled the smaller island 'ALEX'. We can only conclude that the Others took Alex to Hydratraz after kidnapping her.....

As for why the Others left Jack handcuffed by Colleen's side, is it possible that she is the Other he knew off-island and Ben is waiting for him to recognize her after a long period of time?

#288. Posted by: ogam5 at October 29, 2006 8:21 PM

For some reason, I have been thinking about Locke's relationship with the island. I have also been thinking about the stuff Benry told him when he was incarcerated at the hatch.

I suspect that Locke, who was told that he was "immaculately conceived", will have some sort of relation to Dharma's fertility initiative.

#289. Posted by: Shikotee at October 29, 2006 11:05 PM

Updated map of island.

Check out:

http://tinyurl.com/yjx62k

#290. Posted by: Shikotee at October 30, 2006 12:34 AM

@Gatorgal

I think you've really got something with the daddy issues here, and it extends to more than just Sawyer, Kate, and Jack obviously.

Sun and Jin - MAJOR dad issues for both of them, and secondary dad in law issues for Jin. Sun's dad being someone so powerful that Sun basically has to surround herself in ignorance to deal with it, and Jin's father who is the exact opposite of Mr. Paik (though they did seem to reconcile their differences).

Locke - Yeah, I don't think I need to go there.

Charlie - The butcher who didn't nurture his son(s) musical ability.

How about mommy issues? Ana Lucia anyone?

Shannon lost her father, Boone his father in law. What happened to Boone's real father.

Penny Widmore (though not a major character) has issues with her father, obviously.

And last but not least, that little lovable runt Aaron... That kid is DEFINITELY going to run into some daddy issues. Namely, who is my real daddy? Why are Daddy Locke and Daddy Charlie fighting?

But I'd hate to see the show come down to the fact that they all come to know Eko as a spiritual 'father'.

We'll see. But good call Gatorgirl.

#291. Posted by: Illusivemuse at October 30, 2006 9:19 AM

Was Kate compromised after her famous "Breakfast at Benry's"? Did she do the Houdini just to prove a point, then "pop" back into her cage? Does she know/suspect they are on camera with sound? Only inquiring minds want to know!

#292. Posted by: getLOST at October 30, 2006 9:26 AM

Could this be a virtual replay of "Lord of the Flies"? I mean, after the boys split into "good" and "bad" groups, weren't the natural leaders named Jack (the good guys) and Henry (the evil ones)? Well...I could be wrong about the name Henry.

#293. Posted by: getLOST at October 30, 2006 9:29 AM

Could this be a virtual replay of "Lord of the Flies"? I mean, after the boys split into "good" and "bad" groups, weren't the natural leaders named Jack (the good guys) and Henry (the evil ones)? Well...I could be wrong about the name Henry.

#294. Posted by: getLOST at October 30, 2006 9:30 AM

Could this be a virtual replay of "Lord of the Flies"? I mean, after the boys split into "good" and "bad" groups, weren't the natural leaders named Jack (the good guys) and Henry (the evil ones)? Well...I could be wrong about the name Henry.
Could the island that Benry showed Sawyer just be a mirror image of theirs'?
An overlooked key quote (not verbatim!): Just before Colleen was shot, she told Sun that she wouldn't shoot her....that THEY (the Others) were not the enemy...but if she shot her, they would be sorry. I just know that this is very key to future events!

#295. Posted by: getLOST at October 30, 2006 9:34 AM

@ Lordio ...
I too am of the opinion the plane going down was somehow 'controlled' so the survivors would survive. My theory has been that Smokey was involved. Go to this screen capture from S3E1
(http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=55)
One could argue that the trailing black smoke is jet was, but if you cycle through the pics, a case could be made that Smokey chased the plane down, ripped off the tail, and somehow facilitated a controlled crash.

Just my $0.02 worth, but there does appear to be enough evidence to at least warrant a nod that it could be what happened.

#296. Posted by: Saminator at October 30, 2006 9:37 AM

I thought this ep was kinda boring...

I'm confused about Desmond - did he predict the lightning or did he cause it?

#297. Posted by: Connie at October 30, 2006 10:28 AM

The Others, so far at least, don't seen to have any young children. They do have Alex, and Karl, and these are teenagers.

We have seen children with the "dirty leg" others (seen by Michael). Children seen to be targets of abduction on the island.

So somebody is taking kids, but I'm starting to think it is another group of Others, not the ones that have taken Jack, Sawyer and Kate. I'm starting to think that perhaps the Others are attempting to prevent the dirty leg others from doing whatever it is that they are doing, which involves children in some fashion. Perhaps Alex was originally taken by the dirty leg others, and then rescued by the Others. Perhaps the Others have abducted flight 815 children in an attempt to keep them out of the clutches of the dirty leg others.

#298. Posted by: Darryl at October 30, 2006 10:59 AM

@Darryl -

I like that theory. It would definitely support the "good guys" "bad guys" talk by the Others. Maybe the dirty leg others are the bad guys. That would fit.

#299. Posted by: Amy at October 30, 2006 11:06 AM

Addicted to Lost!!!

1. After seeing next week's promo #2, I think it is obvious and that I spent too much time trying to figure it out. The tumor is Ben's.

2. I can't believe after 11/8 that we'll have to wait until FEBRUARY 2007 for new episodes!?!

3. I have a Hawaiian-based actress friend who was called to audition for the role of an "Other". Not much to say here, other than her scene would take place in a bookstore ... so I'm assuming this would be in the "real" world. Also, it would be a reoccurring role. My friend was not cast.

4. Desmond: he foresaw the lightning. He did not cause it. He was conducting a "test" because he is smart. He thought, "I seem to have this weird, new power. Let me put up this lightning rod and see if what I think is going on is really going on..."

5. Ecko: Yep, again, trying not to over-think this one. Story-wise, he's outlived his purpose. Last season, Locke lost "the faith". So they brought in Ecko to challenge him and take care of "the faith". Now, apparently, Locke is making things right and will regain his faith in the spiritual and the island. Therefore, bye-bye Ecko. Plus, Ecko seems to have fulfilled his character-arch: He was a bad, druggie man. He became a priest on the island. He did the bidding and followed the visions of his dead brother. He has redeemed himself. Bye-bye Ecko. I would imagine he could die happily -- much like Anna Lucia did. If you remember, she died shortly after accepting that she could "stop" and that she chose *not* to kill Fenry.

OMG, I LOVE this show.

#300. Posted by: Matt at October 30, 2006 12:39 PM

http://tinyurl.com/yjx62k

According to this map...by listening to Benry's instructions Michael and Walt would have ended up EXACTLY on the other "Other" island. Does that mean Walt and Michael fell for a long and well played con? Will we be seeing them caged, poked and proded sometime soon? Are they with Ms. Kluegh?

#301. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at October 30, 2006 1:01 PM

I find it interesting that the commercial says that one survivor gets killed off while another can save the rest...or something along those lines.
The obvious choice is Eko but I'd like to see a person who none of us is thinking. Jin...Sayid...Claire.

#302. Posted by: MrEko237 at October 30, 2006 1:59 PM

Just a thought about Desmond.

Does everyone remember when Locke got snared by the Monster in series 1? Okay, he said later that he didn't see it, but in the ensuing episodes he predicted that Charlie would find his guitar, that Jack would be saved from the cave in, and then, he tosses his torch to Boone and 'happens' to find the Hatch! Maybe Locke had a little taste of whatever has got into Nostra-Des-mus!

#303. Posted by: Danny at October 30, 2006 2:47 PM

Is it possible that the Islands are connected under the water somehow?

Maybe the polar bears got out, were released and made their way over.

How would the two guys in episode1 of season3 run to the places where the plane landed. Clearly, they took off into the jungle to get there.

But, they ran in different directions, so is the other island that kate, jack and sawyer on are just another installation of the dharma project. A holding/testing area?

#304. Posted by: DizzyG at October 30, 2006 2:55 PM

@ lordio & ButchM:

I'm not sure if anyone has answered the food thing you guys mentioned but I think I can explain it. Remember back in S2 the ep called "Dave". It was a Hurleycentric ep that showed his past in the looney bin. At the beginning of that ep the losties find a pallett full of food and they carted it off to the beach. In the ep "S.O.S." Rose is seen stocking a makeshift bamboo pantry on the beach (purchased from the "Gilligan's Island" collection at Pottery Barn). The amount of island time since Dave to now is rooughly about 2 weeks. If they took the food from the pallett to the beach and stored it there it could last quite a while. It seems plausible that the losties still have food at the beach and that there is a system for rationing out the food, we just haven't seen them going through the rationing process. But like so many other things in this show they can't film every scenario of every possibility, there just isn't enough time in an hour to convey all the little nuances.

#305. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 30, 2006 4:01 PM

DizzyG wrote:
"Is it possible that the Islands are connected under the water somehow?"

We have already established that there is an underwater escalator that connects the islands. You know, kind of like an airport 'people mover' at parts. But the polar bears are excellent swimmers, so don't need to use it... Jack's dad is the curator of this underwater escalator...

Jack should have some leverage with agreeing to save the tumor patient (BENRY!) or not. I hope he uses it.

#306. Posted by: JoePike at October 30, 2006 4:29 PM

@Danny:

Do you mean the ep where Locke was hunting boar and went running after one, after Michael got knocked over by it, and came face to face with the "Monster". Or do you mean the time they were returning from the BLACK ROCK and he was being pulled along the ground and almost got sucked down a hole? I ask because if you mean the second time then it doesn't jibe with the rest of your post. The second incident post-BLACK ROCK was at the end of S1. All the events you describe take place in the middle of S1, before he was grabbed. However if you are refering to his first encounter then it might make sense. He might have come in contact with the smoke and gotten some of it's mojo to rub off on him.

#307. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 30, 2006 4:35 PM

"Paint an Eight" is the name of a Black Crowes song.

i thought of it immediately when I saw that eight on the rabbit.

I was not going to say anything until Sawyer said the actual song name....something a long the lines of "How do I know you did not just Paint an Eight on another rabbit"

As this song is pretty rare and not on any albums, I could not find the lyrics, but I did find an interesting quote on the significance of the number 8.

"7 days represents the creation of Earth and our existence...striving for one more day is essentially to strive for an existence of being one with nature"

or not.

#308. Posted by: Charlie Salinger at October 30, 2006 4:50 PM

Seems everyone has missed the insinuation that Alcatraz was a prison. A very 'inescapable' prison.

Food for thought.

#309. Posted by: Neal Mindflood at October 30, 2006 5:04 PM

@Mr Grimm:
Yeah, I was thinking about the first time. I was looking over my notes about the first series when it occured to me. But, I'd actually forgotton that Locke got grabbed by the Smoke later!
Thinking back, Locke seemed suprisingly enthusiastic about getting grabbed at the end of S1. Maybe he was expecting the same mojo as he recieved earlier. This may account for his rapidly failing faith in S2 (that, or he is highly bipolar!).

#310. Posted by: Danny at October 30, 2006 5:16 PM

@ meg

Good 0ne - "Maybe Mr. Eko got a dui or something?" Then to find out that he did indeed get a dui - wow. If he gets killed off, maybe he can sell his Eko Jesus sticks to tourists.

The word is "intriguing." :>)

@ Mr. Grimm

I like your explanation of the food situation. But it would mean that they would be running out very soon, don't you think - unless there is another "drop."

@ GatorGal

If it can't be Regis or Kelly, let's pray for useless, despicable and totally unlikable CHARLIE.

#311. Posted by: ButchM at October 30, 2006 6:18 PM

I think Sawyer has been conned big-time by Cassie. All she did was show him a picture of a baby-- a really cute baby-- but still just a baby. I mean, she's not holding the baby or anything. How does he know that that baby is even Cassie's (let alone his). Then, how do we know that Cassie is really her name-- maybe it's Clementine!!

I, also, thought the "do you love him?" business was really weird. If anything, I thought that if she agreed that yes, she loved him, then that would give Pickett even more reason to kill Sawyer. I mean, you guys (Losties) killed someone I love (Colleen), so I'll kill someone you love.

The medical stuff seems very odd to me. On one hand, they seem to have some advanced equipment (obviously an x-ray machine), but other stuff is antiquated or broken (defibrillator). I don't get it. They seem to know just enough to be dangerous. For one thing, you can't make a heart "explode" with a pacemaker. It could stop beating, but not explode. (@Scott-- I loved your comment about "all wounds suck"-- I laughed out loud)

Regarding someone's comment on why Sawyer and Kate haven't been able to find the cameras, I think it's because the cameras are outside the cages. When we see the tv screens of the Others watching them, you can see the whole cage (and sometimes zoomed in), so the camera would have to be outside the cage itself.

And, lastly, I thing Desmond's character is way cool! After he made his lightning rod, he just seemed to have a releaved and happy expression. Like someone said, he seems to have figured out what he was supposed to do with the information in his head. And just because Des has this ability to see the future, doesn't mean our other friends in the hatch will also have it. Desmond was in a different location when the hatch blew remember.

Counting the days/hours till the next episode, and review!

#312. Posted by: Erin at October 30, 2006 11:57 PM

Kate's comment about "Living together or dying alone" isn't randomly based on an episode title as I believe you think.

The way I see it, it harks back to "White Rabbit" in another incredibly subtle fashion. At the end of that particular episode after Jack comes to terms with the fact that he needs to be a leader, Jack returns to the group and says, and I quote

"A woman died this morning just going for a swim and he tried to save her, and now you're about to crucify him? We can't do this." and follows with with..."Every man for himself is not going to work..." and then follows this up with the warning "if we can't live together, we're going to die alone.".

Basically, this is highlighting, the opposites of opinion of Sawyer and Jack. Does it also subtley imply that Kate prefers Jack. (At least his way of thinking). Kate therefore takes Jack's (old) advice, over Sawyers. Yet another slap in Sawyer's face!!

#313. Posted by: Chris at October 31, 2006 3:59 AM

Sometimes I wonder if we're reading too much into small details. Maybe they just said "Hey let's paint a number on a rabbit!" "Sure great idea--what number?" "How about an 8?" "Sure, that sounds good!" "Cool!" "Yeah, all those people on line will be dissecting why we chose that number for the next 13 weeks!" "Word up man!"

#314. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 31, 2006 10:55 AM

They picked 8 because it's one of the "numbers"... or are those done?

#315. Posted by: wolf at October 31, 2006 11:01 AM

I'm sure they picked it because it's one of the numbers, but beyond that it seems a little silly to search for any deeper meaning. They could have just as easily picked any one of the other numbers.

#316. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 31, 2006 11:14 AM

Just a thought. What about the tumor belonging maybe to Jack's wife's new boyfriend? Thus Jack has the decision in helping his ex stay happy or a chance to get her back by not helping her boyfriend?

#317. Posted by: Tuna at October 31, 2006 11:20 AM

I'm thinking the tumor patient is probably someone that we haven't seen yet.

#318. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at October 31, 2006 11:27 AM

Have you guys seen this yet? Pretty funny...check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/yf29s9

#319. Posted by: Vikki at October 31, 2006 12:27 PM

The Others brought Jack there for a reason (remember Jack, Sawyer, and Kate were hand-picked)-- presumably to help this person with the spinal tumor. Why would they do this if the person wasn't one of their own? It's got to be one of the Other's group.

#320. Posted by: Erin at October 31, 2006 12:33 PM

Someone (sorry, I can’t remember who, and I’ve tried going back through the posts but with so many comments I can’t find it) got me thinking a few days ago. They posted a comment stating that there is another group of Others on the island. I thought back to the Season 2 ep where Michael, Jin, and Sawyer are leading the tailees to the beach camp and Michael goes off on his own to look for Walt. Jin and Ecko take off to find Michael and during their search they spot a group of Others walking through the jungle. Ecko grabs Jin and they duck under a bush and we see the group pass from their perspective. Their feet are dirty and their clothes are worn. Now, I know what you must be thinking, that’s just the same Others that we now and love playing dress up. I thought so too, until it hit me. Why would they be playing dress up in the middle of the jungle and with one of the kids? Bear with me – I’m getting to my point.
1st Observation: The Other’s (or if you prefer – Benry’s Gang) only played dress up for a reason, whenever they had to encounter the Losties, and to the best of my recollection none of those encounters had ever involved the kidnapped children being with Benry’s Gang.
2nd Observation: In the season 3 opener, Benry tells Goodwin and Ethan that he wants lists in 3 days. Think back to season 2 and if I remember correctly AL killed one that had a list in her pocket with the names of everyone that was taken that night, wasn’t that the first night they were on the beach? If it was the first night then how did Goodwin get to know everyone’s name, make the list, and get it back to Benry in time for a midnight raid.

I think there is another group of Others on the island. They don’t live like Benry’s Gang, they actually are hillbillies living off the land and barely scraping by. They are the ones that took the children from the tailees. They had their own infiltrator with the survivors, and I think that was Nathan. I’ll explain why, Nathan had disappeared for a short time and that’s what got AL’s suspicion going. Goodwin must have come to the same conclusion and decided to kill Nathan to give his group, Benry’s Gang, the advantage of having their pick of Tailees. It would also throw suspicion off him if they believe Nathan escaped. Benry’s Gang and these other Others are the ones at war. Benry’s Gang is the good guys and the other Others are the bad guys. They each need children for some as yet unknown reason. Let’s also keep in mind that Benry’s Gang didn’t seem like the type to go traipsing around the woods on a whim, and Kelvin mentioned the word “hostiles” to Desmond in the Season 2 Finale. It could very well be that this other group of Others are the actual hostiles.

Sorry it was so long winded but I needed to get that out.

Any thoughts?

#321. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 31, 2006 3:26 PM

Hi Mr. Grimm,
When AL killed the Other with the List, it was the second time they had come around (I think it was on the 9th day). On the first night, the others took 3 big strong guys (including an attempt at Mr. Eko).

I totally agree that there could be more "Others" though.

#322. Posted by: SarahC at October 31, 2006 3:46 PM

Listened to a podcast of JJ and DL and they did answer some questions about the show. You can listen to the podcast at this url: http://tinyurl.com/ybmbdm

The jist of it is as follows:
Summary of points:

- Jae-Lee committed suicide
- Episode 10 is a Hurley flashback
- Kate does indeed love Sawyer
- They hint that Nikki/Paulo may get a flashback that involves what was going on whilst the main cast were off around the Island.
- When Dharma collapsed, the Polar bears escaped
- Confirmed death in Wednesday episode
- They also cleared up any dispute of there being two islands versus one island
- They said that the two-stage approach to Season 3 (6 episodes, hiatus, 17 episodes) has worked well, and they're going to do the same thing in Season 4.
- Turbine Man was in fact, Bad Twin author Gary Troup.
- Baby Clementine is real and could appear in a future flashback
- Scott's dead, but the Scott-Steve actors argued over which one plays Scott

#323. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at October 31, 2006 3:47 PM

Dear Mr. Grimm,
I've been reading the postings here since the middle of S2. I've never posted because I simply enjoy reading everyone else's comments - especially yours, and of course the incredible job that Mac does with the reviews. Your last post compelled me to finally put my 2 cents in. FINALLY someone put into words what I've been thinking all along. Bravo! And thank you for wording it so well. Knew exactly what scene you were talking about (dirty others with kids as viewed from the bushes). Anyways, I just wanted to thank you (and all you others... not the Others or the other Others... but you other posters - you know who you are) for your postings here. Hope you don't mind if I jump in the conversation every now and then. Looking forward to tomorrow night! And looking forward Mac's awesome review and to reading the comments from you regular posters. Again, thanks to all - oh, and Happy Halloween!

#324. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at October 31, 2006 3:59 PM

@ Erin

I thought the "do you love him" business was hokey as hell and didn't make a lick of sense. After reading your recent post, it got me to thinking. What if Pickett did it for the opposite reason that you said?

Possibly, he merely wanted them to know that someone in their group was responsible for the death of the person he loved and he wanted someone to acknowledge their love for another - so that they might comprehend the hurt that he was experiencing. Sort of like saying to them ,"See what you bastards did to me?"

@ Mr. Grimm

A 2nd group of Others could very well be - you make some excellent points to support this theory. I just have a difficult time imagining Benry's gang as the good Others - maybe they are the inbetween Others, the "Tweeners?"

I think Sawyer and Kate are madly in love - he with himself and she with herself. Sawyer seems to be the pill and Kate the headache.

#325. Posted by: ButchM at October 31, 2006 4:28 PM

@ ButchM
Regarding your comment "I just have a difficult time imagining Benry's gang as the good Others..." Perhaps they think they are "good" as in omnipotent or "all knowing" like Q from ST:TNG. For some reason Benry and his gang really reminds me of Q and his Holier than thou attitude.

#326. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at October 31, 2006 4:51 PM

@ Sue-Z-Lost

You're definitely (everyone check that spelling) right - Benry's guys do act as if they are all-knowing. As for our beloved Benry, all he needs to boost his ego is a swivel chair.

#327. Posted by: ButchM at October 31, 2006 5:05 PM

I have to say it again....funny video on youtube about Lost:

http://tinyurl.com/yf29s9

Maybe it's old news to you guys, but I just saw it today and got a laugh or two from it....

Which Lost character did you dress up as for Halloween??????

WGNABB!

#328. Posted by: Vikki at October 31, 2006 5:29 PM

One other thing....could Bad Twin be a hint about Benry and Juliet? I know there were some twin theories going on in this week's forum....

#329. Posted by: Vikki at October 31, 2006 5:30 PM

So, there might be 2 groups of "Others." That would explain a lot of things. Like where those 2 kids from the tail section are. I've been wondering about them for so long!

And, if Desmond can see the future, how far into the future can he see? Just a few hours? A day? Based on the last 2 episodes, it seems to me that he can only see into the next few hours. So interesting! How will he use this new power? For good or evil?

And is the guy with the eye patch in this week's preview the one who left his glass eye inside the Bible that Eko found?

#330. Posted by: Amanda S. at October 31, 2006 5:40 PM

Mr Grimm Amanda

When Ana Lucia climbed the hill with Goodwin. He told Ana that the kids are safe when she was questioning him. So Benrys group does have the kids

#331. Posted by: Bob at October 31, 2006 7:28 PM

I think Zeke/Tom is a priest or something. He said to kate that she's not his type, which is just strange. also, his hair and clothing just really remind me of a priest figure. just speculation really.

#332. Posted by: wolf at November 1, 2006 2:24 AM

We're gonna need a bigger sub!

#333. Posted by: Belgium at November 1, 2006 5:16 AM

@Bob:

I remember - you're right he did tell Ana that the kids were safe. He could have been lying, it's a possibility, although a farfetched one. I'm still on the fence about whether or not they have the children from the tail section. Like everything else on this show, only time will tell.

#334. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at November 1, 2006 7:55 AM

Thank you Bob for bringing up that conversation between Goodwin and AL. It reminded me of something else that Goodwin said. AL asked him about Nathan and Goodwin answered, "He was NOT a good person". The way he said it was so definitive, it leads me to believe that Goodwin knew Nathan wasn't a crash survivor and was actually from the other Others. Since Benry and his peeps think they are the 'good guys', then it stands to reason that they view the other Others as the 'bad guys'.

Thoughts?

#335. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at November 1, 2006 7:58 AM

Mr Grimm
From the transcripts with Ana and goodwin

Did he see you out there? Is that why you pretended to be one of us? You ran out of the jungle 10 minutes after the crash, you weren't wet. You were never even in the ocean. Where are they... your friends? Nathan... what did you...
Goodwin If you had cut off his finger and he still told you he was on the plane, I think maybe you would have started to believe you had the wrong guy.
Ana-Lucia Did you kill him?
Goodwin Nathan was not a good person. That's why he wasn't on the list.
Ana-Lucia What about the kids? Did you kill them, too?
Goodwin Children are fine. They're better off now.
[They fight and Goodwin is impaled on Ana-Lucias stick

#336. Posted by: Bob at November 1, 2006 9:39 AM

Thanks for the transcript Bob. However we know how skillfully the Others can lie. In evidence is Ben. The beating he took at the hands of Sayid and he didn't deviate one iota from his cover story. Nathan might have still been a plant from the bad Others and by killing him goodwin throws suspicion away from himself completely. Even if Ana had started to believe Nathan after cutting off his finger it doesn't mean he was on the plane. Remember Cindy the Flight Attendant stated that she didn't remember him from the flight. Considering that the tail section of a plane is the smallest and most confined area it is a little surprising that no one remembered Nathan. I don't know if I'm right or wrong but then again they didn't notice that they didn't remember seeing Goodwin on the flight.

#337. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at November 1, 2006 9:54 AM

If Nathan was a "bad other" and infiltrated the tailies camp, and Goodwin was a "bad" other and infiltrated the tailies camp, and we know that Ethan (a good other, by these terms) infiltrated the Losties camp, then who is the "bad other" that infiltrated the Losties camp? It would stand to reason that if Nathan was a bad other and went to that camp, that there would be a bad other in the Losties camp...

Have we seen all of the Losties actually on the plane at one time or another? I think we have, but am not positive.

#338. Posted by: Dudelost at November 1, 2006 10:18 AM

Sorry, in the post above, I meant Goodwin was a good other.

#339. Posted by: Dudelost at November 1, 2006 10:39 AM

Didnt the guys looking for Desmond have a submarine maybe that is what Ben ment by the sub is back......just a thought

#340. Posted by: Bendjy at November 1, 2006 11:09 AM

Maybe it was Steve (or was it Scott ha!) that was the bad other in the Losties camp. Even the writers aren't sure which one is dead according to the Pod cast of 10/30/06. OR maybe one of the "new regulars" Paulo/Nikki? Didn't I read somewhere that there's going to be an Other flashback. Could be why they're being introduced. We'll see how he/she infiltrated the Losties... hummm?

#341. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at November 1, 2006 11:19 AM

Could be that Paulo or Nikki could be the bad other who infiltrated the Losties--It would at least give a good reason for introducing these new loser characters.

#342. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at November 1, 2006 11:23 AM

Serious question here...

Supposing that they really did put something into Sawyer, which I'm not sure what to believe now...

Is it possible to install a pacemaker without momentarily stopping the heart?

The reason I ask because if the defibrillator is broken or busted as Juliette says it would:

1.) Possibly imply that it was broken when they used it on Sawyer (despite Juliette's implication that its been broken for a while)

2.) Give Jack crucial evidence later to reveal to Sawyer who will most likely doubt that Ben did NOTHING to him, that without a working defib, they couldn't have installed a pacemaker.

3.) Be really coldhearted of Juliette if the defib WAS in working order because they had just used it on Sawyer and let Colleen die anyway.

I hope this makes since.

Is there a doctor in the house?

#343. Posted by: Illusivemuse at November 1, 2006 12:14 PM

Hey all, that was my idea about the other (dirty legged/hill billy) others. Not that I'm fishing for praise, but I did take a lot of grief last week, you know!

Another variation of this idea is of an "others" civil war. Once, you see, the Others and dirty-legged others were one group (Dharma people?), but something happened and a rift developed. The groups headed in different directions and evolved different lives. The dirty-legged others became bad hill billies who kidnap children and for dastardly purposes. The Others evolved into clean cut khaki-wearing types bent on stopping the dirty-legged others from achieving their evil ends. Recall when Benry insisted that he wasn't "bad".

Also, I think it is pretty obvious that the Others are going to turn out to be "good guys". I say that because most everything we've seen about them (apart from them occasionally saying they're "good") is designed to lead us to believe the opposite. Clearly, Lost is building to an Aha! moment of revelation (can you say "season finale"?) when the Others are shown to be good guys, not the bad guys we all thought they were.

#344. Posted by: Darryl at November 1, 2006 12:46 PM

@Darryl:

Thanks Brotha' - I couldn't find your original post. Thanks for stepping forward to clear that up. I think your theory has some merit. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come true in some way, shape, or form.

#345. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at November 1, 2006 12:50 PM

We've heard that Ana asked Goodwin about the children. Goodwin was a "good" other and he told Ana the children were fine, implying that the "good" others took the children. We also saw the teddy bear being dragged while some "others" were walking through the forest. Could their be two seperate groups? Quite possibly. Could it be that BOTH groups of others (the Good others, and Bad / Dirty legged others) want the children to ensure that they will have numbers as they grow older so that neither of their groups will die out? Possibly.

Maybe the good others gave up Michael / Walt so that they could have Kate - Sawyer / Jack guaranteeing that they'd be able to make a couple. Maybe they want Kate and her choice to conceive as quickly as possible. Maybe that's why they are pressing her on "who do you love?"

#346. Posted by: Dudelost at November 1, 2006 1:13 PM

Or maybe they knew that the whole time Kate was into Sawyer, so they wanted the both of them, and they wanted Jack because of his surgery skills and medical background (something they appear to be lacking)....

#347. Posted by: Dudelost at November 1, 2006 1:15 PM

Thanks Mr. Grimm. I continue to assert that the key to understanding Lost (if it can be done) is to set aside flight 815 and try to figure out what was happening on the island before the plane crash. Starting with the crash and trying to theorize with that as the starting point is the natural way to go, but with Lost, it is a trap, just quicksand.

Clearly, I think, the Others were surprised by the plane crash. Benry came out of his nifty hut in surprise. He was _reactive_, not someone who had some scheme about bringing all the Losties to the island. So I think that all the theories about the Others having this grand design to bring all the people of flight 815 to the island for some scheme are off track.

I think that the mysteries of Lost, when and if finally revealed, are really going to be rather thin. It is all going to turn out to be a matter of perception and viewpoint, obscured by tons of red herrings.

Something fairly clear cut and simple was happening on the island before the plane crash. Nothing exciting enough to be the basis of a TV show. But the whole twist about Lost is that we take the perspective of the plane crash survivors who are introduced into the mix. The plane crash forces the indigenous island dwellers into certain reactions. The reactions are seen as those of a villain because we're seeing them from the perspective of the crash survivors; in reality they are logical steps taken in reaction to the crash and the actions of the intruding crash survivors.

It all could turn out that the villains are those on the plane, whose actions against the existing island dwellers (Jack's vow to build an army to fight the Others) serve to impede them in their important and beneficial pursuits, whatever those turn out to be.

Sorry, a little longwinded! Must be because it is Wednesday!

#348. Posted by: Darryl at November 1, 2006 1:33 PM

@Darryl ...I agree with you re: the perception theory, but the crashees al seem to be connected... Is that a coincidence OR is there meant to be more?

#349. Posted by: RichS at November 1, 2006 1:45 PM

@RichS, you're right, that's a hole in my theory. If the characters have been "brought" to the island, I think someone else did it, not the Benry Others. I still think Benry did not expect the plane to arrive in any fashion, not a landing and not a crash.

I am tending to think that all the connections are red herrings. Or that a few are significant, and the rest are red herrings; perhaps chalk them up to "six degrees of separation" gone amok. Hmmm, maybe Kevin Bacon will be making a cameo at some point.

I think:

1) you have an island where stuff is going on
2) you have a planeful of people with some real and some contrived six degrees of separation stories
3) the plane goes off course and crashes due to the magnetic disruption at the island.
4) you start to tell the story of the people on the plane interracting with the people on the island with a skew towards making it look as if the people on the island are nefarious and the people on the plane were brought there for a PURPOSE.
5) throw in a lot of red herrings and innocent (if not contrived) connections between Losties and you have a simple premise twisted into looking like a really mysterious thing.

I don't think the people or plane was "brought" to the island for any reason other than they were on that plane and that plane was brought down by the magnetism on that island.

#350. Posted by: Darryl at November 1, 2006 2:42 PM

Hey guys - if you haven't seen it yet, they've got a sneak peek posted for tonight's episode. SPOILER: Looks like Mr. Eko gets saved from a fire, then disappears... Off to find his "brotha" perhaps?

http://tinyurl.com/m37eh

#351. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at November 1, 2006 2:45 PM

I hereby declare the Hill Billy Others as the HBOs. Who's with me?

#352. Posted by: Batteries Included at November 1, 2006 3:31 PM

@Batteries:

LMAO - HBO's - I Love it.

I second that.

#353. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at November 1, 2006 3:57 PM

Thank You Mr. Grimm. I always look foward to your posts. I believe there is a possibility that the Benry Others may be the "bad" ones. Good or bad can sometimes be a perspective thing. During the cold war I'm pretty sure the Russians thought that they were the good guys.

#354. Posted by: Batteries Included at November 1, 2006 4:08 PM

@Sue-Z-Lost
@Crispy Seaplanes

I wonder if it is even possible for there to be another infiltrator in the Losties group? Unless the person took over the name of someone on the plane manifest (but how would they know that person was definitely not going to show up or wasn't in the group already)
Ethan was discovered as an infiltrator because of Hurley's verification of each survivor's name and info against the manifest. If there had been another infiltrator, they probably would have been discovered also. Unless, again, they successfully commandeered someone's name from the manifest.

#355. Posted by: Kristine at November 1, 2006 4:30 PM

Good point Kristine and I had thought of that earlier but there are always so many possiblities w/this show. (That's why I love it!) I did see this on the LOST-TV site which made me go hummm... (POSSIBLE SPOILER) posted on 23 August 2006 "One of the three new characters is an Other, and "a major bomb" will be dropped halfway through the season." Could they be referring to Nikki/Paulo?

#356. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at November 1, 2006 4:43 PM

@ Batteries Included
HBO's - Nice! But what about really confusing people and call them UFO's instead (Unwashed Filthy Others). Might fit in better with the mystery of the island and the "alien" theories people come up with. Anybody wanna vote?

#357. Posted by: Sue-Z-Lost at November 1, 2006 4:53 PM

@Batteries Included - HBOs is perfect, good one!

Here's another thought...I think that the Others are _also_ infiltrating the HBOs. The Others have HBO makeup and disguises, after all. Why choose that particular look if not to pretend to be an HBO?

#358. Posted by: Darryl at November 1, 2006 5:39 PM

Now, the "do you love him" beating was a little stupid, yes. But the line Kate throws out, "Live together, die alone" was cool Mac. I bought it. Not stupid at all.

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#359. Posted by: thinng at November 1, 2006 6:38 PM

The Bear cages are on the smaller island OK, ...hey, Polar bears can swim right ? but that far...hmmm, ya, I guess so

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#360. Posted by: thinng at November 1, 2006 7:09 PM

Hey Mac, do the Cardinals think the Bears are who they thought they were...?
...hopefully the Lost writers will give us a nod with the
"we're gonna need a bigger boat" line...
that would be sweeeeet !

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#361. Posted by: thinng at November 1, 2006 7:13 PM

7:43pm...can't wait!

See you guys tomorrow around 2 for Mac's awesome recap!

#362. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at November 1, 2006 7:44 PM

I have a lot of questions about Karl.

Was he part of Sawyer's set up? To help Sawyer think escape was possible? Or is he actually a problem for the others? And what is the relationship with him and Alex?

#363. Posted by: Galen at November 6, 2006 8:15 AM

When the "other" goes to inject sayer the other "other" says "no in the sumthing artairy just like in the oriantation"

does this mean they train them useing dhrama videos?, does dhrama still think the there eperiments are still goin on and sending people and food?

soory for badd spelling im not good at it.

#364. Posted by: Chase at November 7, 2006 11:30 AM

@Chase : His comment about the needle placement - 'above the Sternum, just like in the film' was a reference to the movie "Pulp Fiction" where John Travolta's character had to give an adrenaline shot directly in the heart of Uma's character.

#365. Posted by: vacc at November 8, 2006 11:27 AM

Borat creator Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly signs a $42.5m (£22m) film deal starring his character Bruno...

#366. Posted by: Braiden Peterson at November 22, 2006 7:56 AM

Borat creator Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly signs a $42.5m (£22m) film deal starring his character Bruno...

#367. Posted by: Braiden Peterson at November 22, 2006 7:57 AM

I loved the scene where Jack asks Juliet whether or not Ben is in charge. Simply because its such an awesome parallel to the scene back in Season 2 where Ben asks Locke why he lets Jack call the shots.

Nice writing!

#368. Posted by: Rob at December 10, 2006 11:00 AM

3-4 - Every Man for Himself

Do you love this guy?
Kate decides, a con man conned,
Lightning bolt; a sub?

(alternate first verse:
"Do you love the sky?"

#369. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 15, 2008 11:09 AM

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#370. Posted by: kqybo mlkvt at January 29, 2008 1:19 PM

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#371. Posted by: kqybo mlkvt at January 29, 2008 1:21 PM

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#373. Posted by: kqybo mlkvt at January 29, 2008 1:22 PM

Just listenting to a LostCast Podcast #59, which was recorded between S-3 and S-4, and whihc dealtt with "Theories". The 'casters claimed to have read in an interview with Michael Emerson that, in the first 8 shows (then in the can) he had no scenes off the island. If so:

1) I wonder if we're mistaken about where the Ben/Sayid interchange in "The Economist' took place, or

2) Emerson was misled as to where his character's scene was set, or

3) Emerson was being misleading.

#374. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 18, 2008 1:38 PM

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