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Lost Reviews and News

Key Points from "Catch-22"

Season 3, Episode 17
Episode Air Date: 04/18/07

Point 1
Desmond

Hurley

Jin

Charlie
In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" -- the previous Desmond episode -- I mistakenly assumed the "Lost" crew was taking an unnecessary diversion into the supernatural. It didn't occur to me that Desmond's newfound "future flash" ability would hold any near-term relevance to the show. Rather, I chalked it up as one of those Emmy-grab episodes that inspires critical adoration and fan frustration.

But I was wrong. And I apologize.

Based on the current trajectory of the show and the events featured in this episode, it certainly seems that Desmond is the island's true wildcard.

Consider the evidence:

  • He activated the hatch's failsafe, which ripped purple across the sky and dismantled the Others' communication system. It also put the island back on the world map for the briefest of moments.
  • Desmond's relationship with Penny has the potential to completely disrupt the island's flow. Penny has the determination and resources needed to "find anyone." When the island blip appeared, her cohorts were watching, and you just know she's spent the ensuing weeks assembling a massive rescue operation.
  • Desmond's "ability" gives him a potential edge over Ben. If a future flash sneaks up on Desmond before Ben can initiate his plan (whatever it may be), the survivors could go from island chumps to island rulers in one fell swoop.
Allright, enough of that. Let's get recappin'.

The episode opens with Charlie's death, which seems quite real and dramatic (and nasty -- arrow through the neck?), but since this is a Desmond episode it's clear from the get-go that Charlie's death sequence is another one of Desmond's future flashes (I need a better name for these things -- "future thoughts?" "time bombs?" "flux capacitors?").

Desmond, who's already saved Charlie's butt three times, is growing tired of all this Charlie protection. Following a heroin junkie with marginal music skills around an island all day isn't the wicked romp you'd expect.

In an interesting twist, Desmond's latest future flash -- the one where Charlie is impaled on an arrow -- somehow has a connection to Penny's arrival on the island. Initially, neither we nor Desmond have a firm handle on the "how" or "why" of Penny's assumed appearance, but as the episode progresses it certainly seems legitimate. There's only one hitch: Desmond must allow his future flash to play out exactly as he's seen it. Otherwise, the picture will change and the joyful Desmond-Penny reunion will never come to pass ... and Marty will never be born and he'll never get the chance to play "Johnny B. Goode" at a sock hop.

Desmond's flash doesn't actually show Penny, but we're led to believe that the following memory segments -- all of which Des sees repeatedly -- are crumbs along a path that leads to Pen. Here's what he sees:

  • Hurley picks up the long electrical cable that leads mysteriously into the ocean. (Note: Hurley first encountered this cable in "Numbers" and it's the same wire Sayid originally discovered in "Solitary.")
  • At night, a small red light blips in the island sky. Is it a plane?
  • A parachute ruffles from a tree.
  • A person wearing boots is dangling from a tree.
  • Hurley and Charlie engage in a heated Superman vs. Flash debate. (Charlie = Pro Superman, Hurley = Pro Flash).
  • A nasty old arrow pierces Charlie's throat. Blood bubbles from his mouth. Fin.

Des is in a pickle: on one hand, he's brimming with excitement at the prospect of seeing Pen, but on the other, he knows Charlie has to die. It's a bummer, but Des appears confident in his decision: Penny can stay, Charlie must go.

For the future flash to play out properly, Des needs Hurley, Jin and Charlie to accompany him on a specific journey -- one that takes them to the mystery cable and then veers into the jungle (and it has to be in that order). Hurley joins up with little prodding from Des, and Jin and Charlie enlist because they mistakenly believe they're going camping.

Uh, camping? Watch your back, boys. Smokey loves those smores.

The group plods along the beach until they reach the wire. Des is pleased; the first part of his mind puzzle snaps into place.

The sun is setting, so the boys set up camp and regale each other with fireside ghost stories (Jin's Korean variation of "killer with a missing hand" is particularly dramatic). Desmond sits away from the group and gazes longingly at that now-famous Desmond-Penny picture (i.e. "the picture that would not die"). Charlie strolls up and takes a gander at the pic.

"That's not bad, Des, not bad at all," Charlie murmurs as thoughts of Claire evaporate from his mind.

Des hints at his relationship with Penny and piques Charlie's curiosity by repeating Penny's line from the season two finale: "With enough money and determination, you can find anyone."

And right on cue, a low rumbling echoes across the sky. Holy crap, that sounds like a helicopter!

The boys share a moment of celebration. Rescue! They're going home!

Or not.

The rumbling shifts. It becomes sporadic. Helicopters don't sound like that.

THUNK ... THUNK ... thunk ... splash

Somewhere offshore -- close enough to hear but out of sight -- a heavy object slams into the sea.

The boys see a small red light floating down from the sky (future flash!). It's a rescue beacon, and given its slow descent, it appears to be attached to a parachute.

The beacon floats into the island's mid-section and disappears. Desmond immediately wants to launch a rescue operation, but Charlie will have none of it. He knows a haphazard search through dark trees doesn't bode well under the best of conditions, but toss in a smoke monster and 16 year's worth of Rousseau traps and you've got a recipe for disaster ... or impalement.

Des backs down. His future flash demands that all four men be present, so he tables the rescue initiative until morning.

Early the next day, Des leads the group into the jungle. After a mile or so Hurley demands a break (Dharma Twinkies + Mangos = Acid Reflux). Des is initially pissed, but the pit-stop proves fruitful because Charlie spots a small plastic hula doll sitting in the brush. Could it be wreckage from last night's "incident"?

The group investigates the area and Des soon finds a black bag stuck in a tree. Using Hurley as a reluctant stepladder, Des snatches the bag and dumps its contents on the jungle floor. The group sorts through the material and finds:

  • A satellite phone with spent batteries (of course).
  • A Portuguese edition of "Catch-22." (Remember: the two arctic researchers seen at the end of "Live Together, Die Alone" spoke Portuguese.)
  • A second, unidentified book tucked in a plastic bag. (Wanna bet it's "Our Mutual Friend" by Charles Dickens?)
  • And here's the kicker ... a color print-out of the Desmond-Penny picture is tucked into the pages of "Catch-22."

Desmond's heart soars. Up until now he was acting on future-flash faith, but the picture convinces Desmond that Penny has arrived.

Freshly inspired, the group pushes on. Rain begins to fall, which is nothing new, but the downpour sends a shiver through Des. He knows that Charlie dies while it's raining.

Right on cue, Hurley and Charlie start to debate the merits of Superman vs. Flash. Des moves faster because he knows a "Big Moment" is about to descend. It's only seconds away ...

Des looks around. This is it. This is the spot where Charlie dies.

He sees the jagged edge of an arrow tucked into the trees. He looks down. A tripwire is pulled taut across the jungle floor.

Charlie steps on the wire.

Five ... four ... three ... this is it! ... two ... the Driveshaft reunion is off! ... one ...

But Desmond can't help himself.

"Charlie, duck!" he shouts, lunging at Charlie. The arrow zings. It misses!

Charlie looks up at Des. That's Life-Saving Moment No. 4, but Charlie knows something is amiss about this one.

Shortly thereafter, the group momentarily splits up to cover more ground. Desmond and Charlie are left alone, which offers Charlie a chance to challenge Desmond.

It was "duck." That one word gave it away. Desmond knew the arrow was there and so he knew Charlie was about to die. Des doesn't argue; he's too depressed to care. By saving Charlie, he's changed the future flash (he doesn't know how, but he knows it's different). In the choice between Penny and Charlie, Charlie won ... for now.

Desmond's funk is soon interrupted by a shout from Jin. He and Charlie race toward the call. They arrive and look up: another puzzle piece dangles from a high tree.

A lifeless body and a parachute are stuck in the branches. The pilot's face is obscured by a helmet and dark visor, but Des knows it's Penny. He climbs up the tree like a howler monkey on a fruit binge and begins cutting parachute lines. The chute falls to the ground. Hurley, Jin and Charlie spread the chute out in a makeshift rescue sack, preparing to catch the pilot.

Desmond hacks. The pilot falls safely into the chute.

Des darts from the tree and pushes the trio away from his beloved Penny.

A small cough pops from under the helmet. She's alive!

Desmond unstraps the helmet. "I'm here Penny! I waited so long! I never read the Dickens book! I ..."

Uhhh ... that's not Penny! It's a woman, no doubt, but it's definitely not Penny.

The pilot groggily opens her eyes.

"Desmond," she sputters before drifting into unconsciousness.

And that's when it ends!

Point 2
Juliet This episode's flashback serves two purposes: It reveals just how misguided and spineless Desmond can be and it shows how Desmond and Penny first met. Beyond that, it has some lovely cinematography and great Scottish accents, but that's about it.

Here are the high points:

  • We discover -- surprisingly -- that Desmond had a brief tenure as a monk. Seriously. Robes, vow of silence, the whole thing. The problem is that his monkhood came at the expense of his fiancee (a woman named Ruth, whom he dated for six years then ditched a week before their wedding).
  • Upon achieving full monkhood (brotherhood?), Des visits Ruth to apologize. He claims that after a night of boozy revelry, he experienced a "calling" when a monk offered a helping hand. It's one of those "I had a vision" speeches that's meant to forgive all past transgressions, but Rose isn't swayed. "It's a good thing a bloody shepherd didn't help you up," Ruth snipes (I like that Ruth; she's got spunk).

  • Desmond's run-in with Ruth sets him on an unrighteous path. He sneaks into his abbey's winery (yes, they have one) and drowns himself in the very expensive vintage the abbey produces ("Moriah Vineyards, Cabernet Sauvignon, 1995" -- thank you, TiVo). He's caught by the prior, who kindly informs Des he's been fired from monkdom. Des is stunned -- he didn't realize monks could be fired, nor does he have any idea what he's supposed to do next. The prior says God clearly has a bigger plan for Des, which is the same schpiel he gives all his fired monks, but in this case it takes on extra meaning because this is "Lost" and Desmond is now a key figure on a wacky island.
  • The next morning, a sober Des turns in his monk robes and monk badge. The prior doesn't have any ill feelings toward Des, but he does have one final request: He needs him to prep a wine shipment for a buyer arriving later that day. So Des dutifully assembles 10 cases of the high-brow vintage and rolls them outside to a waiting van. And that's when he meets the buyer ... Penny.

    The two are clearly attracted to each other, and their connection is quickly solidified when Des uses his "fired monk" story to charm the hell out of Pen (it's a wonder they didn't start going at it on the abbey's grounds). And so this is how they get together. In later years, after prison and the sailing race and all that wasted time on the island, Des and Pen will sit with their grandchildren and tell one hell of an origin tale.

There's a couple other backstory bits worth noting:

  • Easter Egg: The prior has a poorly Photoshopped picture on his desk that shows the prior with the white-haired oracle from Desmond's previous backstory (she's the jewelry store clerk who warned Desmond that the universe has a way of "course correcting".)
  • Testing and sacrifice are two key themes in Desmond's story. We know this because Desmond goes out of his way to recount Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac at Mt. Moriah, and the story serves as a counterpoint to Desmond's inability to "sacrifice" Charlie. I'm sure smarter folks can draw better parallels, but I figured I'd throw it out there since it was so clearly mentioned.
Point 3
Jack

Juliet

Kate

Sawyer

The Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle is now the Jack-Juliet-Kate-Sawyer love rectangle (or "love rhombus" if you want to get tricky).

The abridged version goes like this: Kate still wants Jack, but when Jack deflects her flirting in favor of time spent with Juliet, Kate acts out by jumping Sawyer in his tent. The two have rabbit sex, which nearby castaways must have loved hearing all night, but the next morning Sawyer (who's not a dumb man), correctly concludes that Kate came to him after Jack "chose" Juliet.

One thing leads to another and it becomes clear that Sawyer really doesn't care all that much if he's Kate's Plan A or Plan B. As long as he gets a little action, he's cool (for now).

I'm sure some folks will criticize this soapy storyline, but I see no harm in it. Oh sure, it's fluffy filler, but how else can the writers work in gratuitous shots of Evangeline Lilly and references to mix tapes, "Phil Collins' Greatest Hits," afternoon delight and, best of all, a classic Sawyerism -- "Hope I'm not interruptin' ... you two arguing over who's your favorite Other?"

Point 4
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line (as already noted): "Hope I'm not interruptin' ... you two arguing over who's your favorite Other?" -- Sawyer to Jack and Juliet"
  • Second Best Line: "You need me to make you a mix tape?" -- Sawyer, pleading/suggesting, after Kate rebuffs his bump 'n grind request.
  • Bernard and Rose haven't been forgotten. While we don't see the pair, Sawyer tells Kate he pilfered her "mix tape" (the aforementioned "Phil Collins' Greatest Hits") from Bernard. What's truly sad about this revelation is that, 1. Bernard still uses cassettes, and 2. without a tape deck there's no way for the castaways to enjoy the drum solo from "In the Air Tonight" (do-dum do-dum do-dum do-dumdumumdumudum ... I can feel it comin' in the air toniiiiiight, oh loooord ...).

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"D.O.C." -- Sun discovers the identity of her baby's daddy. Maury Povich guest stars. Airs Wednesday, April 25, 2007 at 10 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Posted by Mac Slocum on April 19, 2007 11:58 AM |




Hey Mac Nice POst, did it again MAc Daddy!

#1. Posted by: Jenny Talia at April 19, 2007 12:01 PM

So, what do you think, would the pilot have been Penny if Desmond hadn't saved Charlie yet again?

#2. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 12:02 PM


I usually have been stepping to the computer immediately following
the Wednesday evening episode to extrapolate my thoughts before reading mac’s review the next afternoon:

WHAT I SAW TONIGHT (11:10 EST - 4/18/07)


. . was confusing and not very compelling. Oh sure, Des has visions, Kate has “jack” troubles & Sawyer “benefits”, (This scenario is getting a little tiresome...) and Charlie gets saved again. (Talk about mental anxiety! I’m waiting for the moment when Charlie gets so distressed about his impending demise that he simply spontaneously combusts!)

Backflashing: Des obviously has a long tradition of commitment-phobia. Monks would rather make wine than jelly, Des meets Pen (aaaaah-hearts go aflutter), and some strange girl - NOT Penny - falls out of the sky . . . and breathes the word “Desmond” before slumping into unconsciousness . . .

BOY. I can hardly wait for mac’s review tomorrow and all the comments by fellow “mac-ees and mac-ettes” as to what this was all about....

EXCEPT: I did have one startling glimpse tonight. When Desmond is saying goodbye to the Elder Brother, if you freeze-frame on the picture on the desk you will see the Elder Brother AND the “white haired lady” from the jewelry store . . . Whoa! What’s that all about?

Previews look good. I’m sure they’re ALL totally misleading . . . It’s the “Lost” way, Brotha.

Bring it home, mr. slocum, bring it home.


DRH

#3. Posted by: davidrh at April 19, 2007 12:10 PM

was the woman in the parachute walt's mom? who is supposedly dead? because i re-watched that scene and it sure looks like her!!!

#4. Posted by: carrie at April 19, 2007 12:15 PM

Great Review
*****IM SO EXCITED**********************
So I had an idea but wanted to wait till the new review came out this week. I was the one with the symbol in the tree last week. Well I just wanted to pass on that I am a huge LOST fan. I watched the first and second season on dvd back to back when I was done I was Jones'in for more I couldnt get my mind off of series. .. So I seen an add for LOST JIGSAW PUZZLES I bought them all when I got them there was no picture of how they went together..(LAST NIGHT DESMOND REFERING TO VISIONS AS A JIGSAW PUZZLE WITH NO PICTURE TO USE TO PUT THEM TOGETHER) so i just started putting them together the only thing they had on the box was a bunch of warnings that said MAY REVEAL SECRETS well after putting together all of the puzzles (I glue all my puzzles together when im done) I didnt notice any new secrets UNTIL I FLIPPED THEM OVER and noticed yellow writing on the back in sections on each i put all 4 together and I'll be DAMNED IT made some kind of Map that GLOWS IN THE DARK
with apparently all the answers to this series which i will not reveal and most of which I dont understand but I know most of you would solve right away. tHERE ARE A TOTAL OF 4 LOST PUZZLES out on the market I highly suggest getting them assembling them then flip them over and and see how all 4 come togehter to reveal one big map and secrets. DESMOND WAS RIGHT and I think hes refering to the jigsaw puzzles you can buy.

#5. Posted by: abigerbang at April 19, 2007 12:16 PM

1st time getting the 1st post, today my frendz is an exctiting day for me :-)

Thought it was a great episode... I can't wait til next week.

#6. Posted by: Jenny Talia at April 19, 2007 12:17 PM

@Carrie: Alas, it's not the same actress. Walt's mom was played by Tamara Taylor (who's now on "Bones"). The "parachutist" is played by Marsha Thomason. Unless they're recasting Walt's mom, which is doubtful, they're probably different characters.

#7. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 12:19 PM

Muary Povich? Really?
anyway...what about Future Echoes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Echoes

#8. Posted by: denise at April 19, 2007 12:21 PM

Charlie mentions that that he would not go into the Jungle because he was afraid of being impaled by a booby trap promptly steps on a trip wire and with his keen intelect says oooh what is this and steps off the wire triggering the device.

Darwin anyone

#9. Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 12:24 PM

The brotherhood story also provides us with a clue that the prior knew the old woman from the antique store where Des gets the ring. As Des returns the robes, there is a brief shot of the prior's desk and there is a photo of him and an elderly woman.

#10. Posted by: whereispeter at April 19, 2007 12:25 PM

I sense a storm brewing, so before this gets out of control:

Yes, the prior has a photo of the oracle on his desk.

#11. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 12:27 PM

@mac

>And right on cue, a low rumbling echoes across the sky. Holy crap, that sounds like a helicopter!

I wish to point out that I predicted Dharma helicopters last episode. . But if this is a Widmore search helicopter, where's it coming from? Helicopters (like small twin engine piston drug planes), don't have the range to reach the mid-Pacific.


>Somewhere offshore -- close enough to hear but out of sight -- a heavy object slams into the sea.

Actually, if you look closely you can see a splach out there in the dark ocean.


>Des backs down. His future flash demands that all four men be present, so he tables the rescue initiative until morning.

His future flash also showed it happening in daylight, so I'm a little confused why he wanted to charge into the jungle at night.

>Charlie spots a small plastic hula doll sitting in the brush. Could it be wreckage from last night's "incident"?

Or was he looking for heroin inside?


>A satellite phone with spent batteries (of course).

But given they're using FLASHLIGHTS! to tell ghost stories on the beach, batteries are apparently no problem for the Losties.


>A second, unidentified book tucked in a plastic bag. (Wanna bet it's "Our Mutual Friend" by Charles Dickens?)

I'm voting for "Something Happened". If Penny knows Desmond's philosophy about "Our Mutual Friend", mightent bringing it represent a death wish?


>The Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle is now the Jack-Juliet-Kate-Sawyer love rectangle (or "love rhombus" if you want to get tricky).

Or maybe "love parallelogram", to make it even less stable.

#12. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 12:30 PM

Loved the episode and the recap. However, - as a real Scot - I HATED Ruth's apalling accent. She veered from Glasgow, to Edinburgh, to Liverpool thru Dublin and then down to Cornwall all in one small speech. Also, her brother, the nose puncher sounded more Irish than Scots. Desmond and the other monk 'brother' both have authentic accents so the producers should have made sure the other two characters didn't sound like Scotty from Star Trek.

Also, where in Scotland do you grow vines, harvest grapes and then bottle a superior cabernet? Napa Valley and the French hillsides are under no threat from the Hebrides. The mountains around the Abbey looked like Scotland, but it would have made more sense if the Abbey had been making the fine MacCutchen malt that plays into the plot of the show.

Otherwise it was a great night for LOST.

#13. Posted by: weepict at April 19, 2007 12:32 PM

So, I guess we're supposed to assume that it would've been Penny hanging in the tree if only Des had let Charlie die. Don't know that I'm buying that one. What would Charlie have to do with whether or not Penny lands on the island? I'm sure, since she has such an extraordinary amount of money and determination, she can just alter the pieces to suit her liking.
I never read Catch-22, although I know the meaning of the phrase. I guess the significance here is that someone has to be "sacrificed" in order for them to be saved? Eh.
I liked the parallel between Charlie's impending death and Abraham sacrificing Isaac. In the Bible, God tested Old Abe's faith by telling him to sacrifice his only son (after his wife was barren for 90 years) but at the last second, God stopped him because he had passed the test. Maybe if Des actually lets Charlie die, then he won't die after all? (I knew Des wouldn't let wouldn't let him die last night, since we still have another Charlie episode coming up. Maybe then, though.)

#14. Posted by: Trinity at April 19, 2007 12:34 PM

Was Ruth the same woman who Charlie used for money in season 1?

#15. Posted by: Chris at April 19, 2007 12:34 PM

I LOVE Cecil Rose's eye for "oh-so-obviously-blooper-details!"

Keep them coming. Great synopsis, mac!

#16. Posted by: davidrh at April 19, 2007 12:38 PM

When Desmond was saying Goodbye to the monk, there was a picture of the monk and a woman on the monk's desk. The woman looked like the jewlery store owner that Desmond went to purchase an engagement ring from.

Did anyone else notice that?

#17. Posted by: Sean at April 19, 2007 12:39 PM

Mac love your reviews more than the show most of the time//GO RED SOX//

#18. Posted by: bigdogjoe at April 19, 2007 12:40 PM

Great recap Mac. I got a kick out of Charlie and Hurley debating superheros. It reminded me of Vern and Teddy in Stand By Me ranting about Superman vs. Mighty Mouse. "You're and idiot, Superman is way better. Besides, he's a real person and Mighty Mouse is a cartoon....."

Also, I was a bit confused, is it the general opinion that Penny would have come if Dez did'nt save Charlie???

#19. Posted by: Three men and a baby... I counted Hugo twice at April 19, 2007 12:41 PM

@Sean: So I guess you didn't read the review (which is fine), nor did you read the comments (not so fine).

Yes, it was the woman.

#20. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 12:41 PM

re: Kate's tent scene...

I guess Kate was jealous of Desmond and decided to do a little "back flashing" of her own. Remember the trailer" "...is it salvation, or anhilation?" Well with Sawyer looking at Kate it was "salivation"

#21. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 12:42 PM

I was a little curious that a helicopter was used to bring a new story line to Lost island, so I checked on flying ranges for helicopters.

The current official record belongs to Robert Ferry who flew from California to Florida in April of 1966. The distance covered on the journey was 1,923.08 nautical miles (3,561.55 km).
So for snicks and giggles, let's round up to 2,000 nm (3,704 km for our non-US friends).

Since it seems likely to me that a person undertaking such a trip would have a vested interest in making it a round trip, we can halve that distance and make a reasonably safe assumption that Lost island is within 1000 miles of land, whether it be Australia or some other spot of land. Or at least within 1000 miles of a ship capable of transporting said helicopter (or helicopters?).

#22. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 19, 2007 12:42 PM

@Sean

When Desmond was saying Goodbye to the monk, there was a picture of the monk and a woman on the monk's desk. The woman looked like the jewlery store owner that Desmond went to purchase an engagement ring from.

>Did anyone else notice that?

Ayup. And mac mentioned it in his review, and another couple of posters and a mac response, above mention it.

#23. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 12:42 PM

Sawyer had some all time great lines this week. Along with the Other comment to Jack and Juliette - "we have to play ping pong every 108 seconds or the island blows up" - him saying to Jack to let him be better than him at something - calling the others perverts and so many more...

#24. Posted by: Melissa at April 19, 2007 12:43 PM

Maybe Desmond is supposed to let Charlie die and that is the lesson he has to learn. Didn't the oracle say something about not being able to change someone's 'destiny'? Desmond asked why she let the brick wall fall on the man with the red shoes and that is when she said no matter what he fate would find a way of killing him. So the question may be why does Desmond keep saving Charlie?

#25. Posted by: Anna at April 19, 2007 12:45 PM

so, mac....

Maybe it's time to ALL CAPS!

:-)

Can you hear me? . . . . good . .

#26. Posted by: davidrh at April 19, 2007 12:49 PM

Another great job Mac.

Are we being set up for yet another pregnancy on the island?? Skate thing.
Last week, Juliet and Goodwin thing.

Loved the back to the future references. I also agree that Desmond's ability to see forward may help the Losties with the Othas, Brotha.

#27. Posted by: Donna at April 19, 2007 12:50 PM

@Anna

>So the question may be why does Desmond keep saving Charlie?

Because he's a coward?

Nah, I don't really believe that. Because he's a decent human being who can't NOT try to save another human being, is my guess.

But my real question here is - can fate really change things mid-scenario like Charlie dies, it's Penny, Charlie doesn't die, it's not?

This is beginning to sound like Schroedinger's cat.

#28. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 12:51 PM

Long-time reader, first time posting.

I thought the episode was the 2nd weakest of the season, behind only the Death of Eko snorer. Mac's review was more entertaining by far than the actual show.

#29. Posted by: Noah at April 19, 2007 12:53 PM

Ok, Melissa beat me to it, but here is my favorite quote of the week in full:

Jack asks about the ping pong table and Sawyer replies...

"It fell out of the purple haze when the hatch went blammo! If we don't play every 108 minutes the Island's gonna explode."

#30. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 12:54 PM

I thought at first that the helicopter got shot out of the sky (and I'm sorta still thinking that) because why would that girl jump out onto an island when her only methid of transportation on/off the Island was the helicopter?

I loved the ping pong game between Jack & Sawyer..."Ya see doc, while you went AWOL there's been some new developments..." Also, loved how Sawyer could not figure out what to say or where to look when he walked in on Kate getting dressed.

@mac "He climbs up the tree like a howler monkey on a fruit binge"
~That had me laughing so hard.

#31. Posted by: lostfugitive at April 19, 2007 12:55 PM

This is beginning to sound like Schroedinger's cat.
→ Posted by: Cecil Rose

Schrödinger's cat is a seemingly paradoxical thought experiment devised by Erwin Schrödinger that attempts to illustrate the incompleteness of an early interpretation of quantum mechanics when going from subatomic to macroscopic systems.

Cecil Rose, I'M REALLY IMPRESSED!!!! Who are you? Albert Einstein's lost child? That was a great post!

#32. Posted by: davidrh at April 19, 2007 12:59 PM

@ mac: Desmond's future flashes = 'A Scot-Thought'?

#33. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 1:00 PM

Thanks for the recap Mac.

My first thought was the parachutest was Ruth with short hair. Second thought is, Penny is still in the helicopter or somewhere else on the island and the gal they found was just the pilot. With Lost anything is possible.

#34. Posted by: LiSa at April 19, 2007 1:00 PM

"... the Driveshaft reunion is off!"

That was good...very good. Oh and did anyone notice that in the shot of the Monk's desk..... :-) Sorry Mac..couldn't resist.

Thanks for the recap.

#35. Posted by: petew at April 19, 2007 1:00 PM

Hey, anyone notice the picture on the head monk's desk?

Just kidding...

#36. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 1:02 PM

The helicopter went into the sea at night, so there's probably no way we'll ever know the answer to this for sure, but is it possible that Smoky had something to do with the helo's crashing? Any way to confirm/deny?

Maybe the pilot - at least we assume the parachutist is the pilot and there were no other (Other?) passengers - will wake and hold a flashlight under her chin and tell a spooky story of a cloud of not-nanobots bringing her aircraft down. Or is Smoky afraid of fences AND water?

#37. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 19, 2007 1:03 PM

Smartasses. All of you. (But I love it)

ANTP = "Anyone Notice the Picture?"

;)

#38. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 1:04 PM

BTW - I think the picture on the monk's desk showed an elderly white-haired lady riding in an elevator...

#39. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 19, 2007 1:06 PM

@Mac
Love the recap, I look forward to it as much as I do the show!

I was wondering if the cord in the ocean had anything to do with the helicoper crashing at the same spot. Like, is the underwater beacon connected to the cord.??
I also wonder who else heard the chopper and crash, and who else might have seen the red lights flashing...Ben?
It make sense to me that the prior fired Des. He knew, just like the oracle, that Des had "bigger" things to do, i.e. push the button.
Also, did anyone else notice in last weeks epi, when Juliet arrives on the sub, the camera pans over to 2 people sitting at a table in the sub. One of them looks like the prior. Can you check that out Mac?

#40. Posted by: Lostsplorer at April 19, 2007 1:12 PM

@Lostsplorer "I was wondering if the cord in the ocean had anything to do with the helicoper crashing at the same spot"

I know that this is not what you meant but when I read your post I thought back to those old time remote controlled toy helicopters with the cable attached between the 'copter and the remote. I got this mental picture of Hurley tugging on the cable and pulling the 'copter into the ocean. Ha! Thanks, I needed a good laugh today.

#41. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 1:18 PM

-I thought one of the key revelations of the episode was that we learned the origin of Desmond's fascination with "brutha"
-Assuming the helicopter was in radio contact with the outside world, there is another chance for people to find out where the heli crashed/where the island is
-I don't mean to complain, but it'd be cool if people would read the recap and the comments before saying anything...

#42. Posted by: Jack Attack at April 19, 2007 1:19 PM

-I thought one of the key revelations of the episode was that we learned the origin of Desmond's fascination with "brutha"
-Assuming the helicopter was in radio contact with the outside world, there is another chance for people to find out where the heli crashed/where the island is
-I don't mean to complain, but it'd be cool if people would read the recap and the comments before saying anything...

#43. Posted by: Jack Attack at April 19, 2007 1:19 PM

I doubt Penny Widmore would actually go herself - she's probably got a rescue team to find Desmond. The rescue lady will probably end up being someone's ex-girlfriend or boss....any thoughts?

#44. Posted by: MeMeMe at April 19, 2007 1:20 PM

According to Wikipedia "Moriah refers to the highest peak of the mountainous ridge on which Jerusalem is built". It also says that it is a "land of vision". Maybe Desmond is intended to go to the highest peak on the island to find something.

#45. Posted by: ac at April 19, 2007 1:20 PM

One more commment I forgot to make. Mac, you mentioned how Desmond's flashbacks/flashforwards give him an edge over Ben.

I like that thought quite a bit, and it truly would make sense for one of his episodes to really be the catalyst for a power change between the Losties and Ben's clan.

I like Desmond's character...he seems to have had such a tragic existence so far and it'd be nice to see that character gain some self worth and confidence through an act a little more heroic and significant than continually having to save a has-been rock star from his inevitable fate.

#46. Posted by: petew at April 19, 2007 1:23 PM

@ Jack Attack -I don't mean to complain, but it'd be cool if people would read the recap and the comments before saying anything...

I read the posts but sometimes by the time I post a response, there are like 6 or 7 already posted.

I have to admit the picture on the desk comments are a bit absurd.

#47. Posted by: LiSa at April 19, 2007 1:26 PM

Does the parachuter actually know Desmond from the past, or simply from the copy of the picture she has of Penny and Desmond?
BTW, she is definitely not Walt's mom (as someone already pointed out)--she is the actress that played Nessa on Las Vegas.

#48. Posted by: copwife at April 19, 2007 1:27 PM

Mac, how about FISIONS, future visions...

#49. Posted by: John at April 19, 2007 1:27 PM

I'm betting that there is definately some sort of magnetic field around the island.

And I bet the helicopter crashed into it and that's what made it fall from the sky.

That would also explain the bumpy ride for Juliet when she came to the island, they probably have to go through it somehow.

#50. Posted by: Steve B at April 19, 2007 1:28 PM

I'm pretty sure a while back the producers said Desmond would end up being a major player for the show. We all snickered but I also think that we are starting to dig the idea.

Is there any chance that Desmond was tagged by Dharma/Jacob as a potential 'savior' at an early time, perhaps while he was in army-jail? He get's out and meets Ruth. Falls in love, then Ethan (on a Guiness drinking sabbatical in Scotty-land) slips him the #108 elixir to knock him out before the wedding. We wakes up to see Mr. Monk ready to help. Mr. Monk butters him up by saying great job not talking dude, then rips the carpet out from under Des, crushing his hopes. They know he's a flake when it comes to committment, so they just add a little pressure.

They intentionally did this and then introduce him to Penny, but more importantly, the Widmores'. He gets all lovey-dovey and of course all hell breaks loose again, resulting in his little boat trip and subsequent arrival on the island.

Since Penny has said 'With enough money and determination, you can find anyone', Dharma/Jacob know that she and her resources will eventually show up to save Des. If she does find him, then theoretically, she has solved the mystery of where the island is = course correcting?

Maybe the solution to the islands fertility issues lies with Desmond's realization of his destiny, he must allow sacrifice (as unnatural as it is to his nature) to be with Penny. Or, if Dharma/Jacob do think that they need unlimited resourses for research, then getting Penny with her cash to the island (now that she can get there and have others come to help) to provide support may be a way of acheiving that goal.

'Let's all get drunk and play ping-pong' - Leader of the StoneCutters

#51. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 1:28 PM

@davidrh "so, mac....Maybe it's time to ALL CAPS! :-) Can you hear me? . . . . good . . "

Testing, one, two, three...testing, one, two, three... Is this thing on?

BTW: davidrh, how's the knee?

#52. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 1:31 PM

I don't think the downed pilot was ever "going" to be Penny, that was just what Des thought / hoped. The test is not will he be willing to sacrifice Charlie, but will he be willing to save him even if it means possible losing all he hoped for. Just my opinion...

I think the photo in the book of Des and Penn would have been for identification for the recon pilot, but why a satellite phone with spent batteries??? My guess is, due either to Sayid's technical savvy or Bennsylvania's resources, the 815'ers devise some way to at least try and use their new toy.

Also, we know that the helicopter could not have been traversing the ocean for days or weeks without a ship to base from. Ergo, Penny must be nearby on said ship and the copter was advance recon. If this is true, the helicopter was probably brought down by Smokey, and didn't just crash due to a lack of fuel or mechanical difficulties.

One final rant the writer's have to 'splain to me at some point: how did Penny know to search for an undetectible island that might be someday detected due to a magnetic kaplooi and that said explosion would lead her to Desmond? That has been a head scratcher for me since last season...

#53. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 1:31 PM

Des met Ruth 6 years before Pen and he was in the army jail while he knew Pen. Hence all the letters her father never gave her.

#54. Posted by: LiSa at April 19, 2007 1:32 PM

Love your wrap up Mac. Oftentimes better than the show! Are the tatoos on Jack's inner arm new? Have I missed something?

#55. Posted by: Anne at April 19, 2007 1:32 PM

Man, the funniest freakin thing I heard all night was Sawyer asking about that mix tape...hysterical! And brought me back to my junior high years....loved it!

I am wondering WHY the chopper crashed? Is it the mega-magnetic whoonaney about the island that made this happen? Anything which flies over/near this island so far on this show met demise....flight 815, the chopper, Eko's brother's plane....

I loved the reference (intentional or not) to Lord of the Flies again with the parachutist that fell to the trees on the side of the mountain....beast from air, right?

This is a stretch, but is Ruth the girl that Eko had to visit who came back from the dead when the coroner was performing an autopsy on her body? The one that then met him in the airport to give him a message from Yemi?

I forgot to freeze my DVR on the satellite phone...did anyone notice what information was on the screen before it went dead?

I am wondering if Des keeps changing the course of what is supposed to happen by saving Charlie, how much else is altered by his decisions to do so? Because I do have a sneaking suspicion that if he had let Charlie die this time, it just may have been Penny that they found.

How did this new person know Des' name? Is she "Alternate Universe Penny"? or maybe Penny was on board with this person and plummeted into the sea with the rest of the aircraft, but this person is aware of who Des is?

#56. Posted by: Vikki at April 19, 2007 1:32 PM

Way off point thought here, forgive me... We know Locke is not interested in leaving the island, that's been addressed... But what about the murderous mates, Kate & Sawyer? Wonder what their reaction to rescue would be? They may have to pay the piper back home... As for some of the other evil do-ers though, I'm assuming island murder cases will never be brought to trial, ha ha.

#57. Posted by: R at April 19, 2007 1:36 PM

Ex-Helo pilot here. Charlie/Hurley, et. al., covered the fact that you can't eject from a helicopter, but that you could jump from one. My only question is why was the person hanging from the tree, who everyone assumes exited the crashing helicopter, wearing an oxygen mask????? Helos usually travel IFR (I follow roads) and therefore do not require pilots/passengers to use oxygen masks. Most helos, at least the one's that I have flown, don't come equipped with oxygen systems. SO, is it possible that when Des saved Charlie's life that not only did the person in the parachute change from Penny to someone else, the source (helicopter) that the person came from also changed (to a jet aircraft)?????

#58. Posted by: DJ at April 19, 2007 1:39 PM

I don't buy into the whole "if Des lets Charlie die, the pilot would have been Penny." Don't forget that Desmond finds the backpack in the tree with the Portugese Catch 22 BEFORE Charlie was "supposed" to die. Therefor it can't be Penny regardless of Charlie's fate, unless she speaks or is learning Portugese. Any thoughts?

#59. Posted by: Robby at April 19, 2007 1:40 PM

NOT A HELICOPTER!!
Someone had the line 'who ever heard of ejecting out of a helicoptor' That's right. The flightsuit. The hula doll. That whoosh-whoosh noise wasn't the props of a copter, it was a plane in a horizontal spin, with no power descending into the ocean. (I think they got in one in Top Gun or something)

What do you think?

Love the jewelery lady link to the prior, who is obviously doing his job (like the jeweler) by kicking Des out as part of the progression of his trip to the island in the future (our present...maybe). Now I get why he calls everybody brother, they are all in it together (like the drunk monks) so they are brothers.

#60. Posted by: CC at April 19, 2007 1:41 PM

Hey Mac

Great update as always. :)

Loved the two back to the future refrences in the first few paragraphs.

This episode wasn't the strongest of the show but it helps define Desmond's "ability" a little more.

I feel the show has been getting stronger as the season goes on (I was ready to drop the show after the "break", I'm glad I haven't).

My thought is do you think Desmond changed "history" when he saved Charlie from the arrow in the throat? That it was Penny in the copter, but "something" altered "history" and replaced Penny with "the other woman"?

Also I think this helecopter wasn't alone, that there is a ship somewhere of the coast waiting to bring a "force" led by Penny onshore???

Just a few random thought

Peace

Kalico

#61. Posted by: Kalico at April 19, 2007 1:41 PM

@ BeLost: I think that we are lead to believe that during Des's 'flash-forward' after the hatch implosion, he explained the entire thing to his buddy at the bar (remember when he was trying to predict the soccer match). Des get's blasted back to the island, then his friend tells Penny the entire ridiculous story because Des has disappeared again. She believes the story to be true, because she's blinded by love. She spends the next 3yrs figuring out how to find Des based on the wacky story.

#62. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 1:42 PM

so im pretty sure that the head monk man had a picture of himself with the jewelry shop grandma on his desk. did anyone else happen to catch that?

#63. Posted by: mdc at April 19, 2007 1:43 PM

I agree, Mac! Your reviews are just as good if not BETTER than the show sometimes!

Thanks!!

#64. Posted by: momof2js at April 19, 2007 1:47 PM

ANTP???? Why was it photoshoped so badly, you'd think Lost could afford a good designer, no???

#65. Posted by: Mary at April 19, 2007 1:47 PM

@ mac: Drastic measure, but can you manually delete additional posts of people that do not pay attention..i.e. continuous ANTP on Monk-ey Monk's desk?

#66. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 1:47 PM

@CC

Agree that the person hanging from the tree didn't come from a helo.

Not sure about the sound of a jet in flat spin, but, the initial sound we heard sure sounded like a lot of helos that I have flown.

#67. Posted by: DJ at April 19, 2007 1:47 PM

I've been thinking about WHY Charlie must die. Really, Why?

My hypothesis is that he was supposed to die when Ethan hung him from the tree. Jack went way above and beyond to bring him back. (As an aside, I don't see how Ethan could have done it, RoboSurgeon or not).

Since the island is 'course-correcting', what has charlie done since the hanging that changes things? I can't think of anything besides hitting on Claire.

any thoughts?

#68. Posted by: OtherKate at April 19, 2007 1:48 PM

Got a Jacob theory out of last night. (Don’t give up reading this right away, stay with me through the end on this)

As Brother Des said, Moriah (wine/mountain) was the spot for Abraham to sacrifice his son in the name of God...his son Isaac, which is the name of the healer in Australia…who harnesses the energies (magnetic) at his house/office/location to heal people. He was supposed to heal Rose but explained that there was another place with the energies required for her to heal… the island the Losties are on. Which like Isaac’s place is healing/fixing things for our castaways (Rose, Locke’s legs, Jin’s little Jins). The Others are ga-ga about the mysterious Jacob…who is Isaac’s son in the Bible.

Isaac healing people with mystical energies in Australia has a following of believers
Jacob healing people 9perhaps) with magnetic energies on the island has a cult of wackos speaking his praises.

The Others Jacob is the son of Isaac in Australia and …I don’t know, some other religious implication like this is all God’s work/plan.

Thoughts?

#69. Posted by: CC at April 19, 2007 1:49 PM

The helicopter would/could have come from a ship. Most helicopters on a search mision would plan to travel approx one hour from the ship or roughly 90 miles spend two hours searching and have enough gas to travel back safely.

You would not use a single piloted helicopter on a search mission

It could be that the pilot came from a fixed wing prop plane and that when it was faltering the losties misidentified the source. That would explain the parachute and the oxygen mask neither of which you use in a helicopter.

#70. Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 1:52 PM

Haven't read all the posts yet, but did anyone notice if Penny herself actually appeared in Desmond's flashforward? I thought his vision just included the famous photo of him & Penny, and that part of the flashforward did come true. If this is correct (that Penny herself didn't appear in the vision), then his entire flashforward was fulfilled, and saving Charlie had no impact on altering it.

#71. Posted by: Buck41 at April 19, 2007 1:53 PM

@Steve B....I was thinking the same thing about why Juliet's plane didn't go down either, but then I remembered that the sedative they gave her knocked her out immediately. It must have been some strong stuff. My guess is they flew her to an undisclosed location and transported her to the submarine without her regaining consciousness....all to keep the identity of the island a secret. Hope this helps!

#72. Posted by: VIkki at April 19, 2007 1:54 PM

@ Robby: my thoughts exactly. I don't think it would have been Penny in either case. That was just wishful thinking on Des' part.

#73. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 1:54 PM

SUPERB review again Mr. Slocum. (Running out of original adjectives...)
ANTP?

Pure genius:
"Uh, camping? Watch your back, boys. Smokey loves those smores."
'"That's not bad, Des, not bad at all," Charlie murmurs as thoughts of Claire evaporate from his mind.'

I vote for 'flux capacitor'. Just to see you make it work in a sentence. "Des had another future flash..." vs. "Des had another flux capacitor..." I know you could make it flow better somehow.

I completely don't get how people are theorizing that if Desmond had allowed the arrow of doom to kill Charlie, the hanging pilot would've been Penny. I just don't get it. It makes no sense to me. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The pilot had already fallen from the sky when Charlie stepped on the wire. Whether he got toasted or not wouldn't change the identity of the pilot. There's just no correlation there. Am I missing something? You know, because I did miss the picture on the desk thing until Mac pointed it out. And 90 other people.

And I also don't get Desmond's whole train of thought- why did he assume that Penny/the pilot wouldn't be found just because he saved Chuck? Hmmmm...

I also think the chopper was brought down by something to do with the island- it got too close and got 'mechanical difficulties'.

The Losties are still taking too long to interrogate Juliet!

#74. Posted by: JoePike at April 19, 2007 1:56 PM

@Otherkate.

I was thinking the same thing last night about why Charlie had to die. I really like your theory about the island course correcting.

#75. Posted by: ac at April 19, 2007 1:57 PM

Anybody know if the flightsuit and oxygen mask typical for regular aircraft or high altitude (U2) types?

#76. Posted by: CC at April 19, 2007 1:58 PM

"Or maybe "love parallelogram", to make it even less stable."

Personally, I've always been a trapezoid person. Those things are cool!

#77. Posted by: Trinity at April 19, 2007 2:04 PM

A High altitude recon plane would require a pressurized suit. The gear worn by the parachutist in this episode is consistant with a long range patrol aircraft

#78. Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 2:10 PM

I suspect that the helmet-issue is just another example of the writers being a little lazy in their zest for creating suspense.

They likely wanted the last scene to be the revelation of the parachutist's face. But instead of doing something like having a ripped flight jacket covering her head, landing in the parachute-net face down, and then dramatically turning her over, the easiest way out was a helmet.

#79. Posted by: Buck41 at April 19, 2007 2:25 PM

@ mac: Oooh, Oooh, Oooh (ala Horshack) I got it! Desmond future flash = a Des-monition (premonition)

#80. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 2:26 PM

@ Buck41 (That's Buck with a B for any of you old followers of American Gothic) - I like your idea of Penny ONLY showing in the photograph and yes, that did come true. Did anyone freeze frame enough to see Penny in any other form throughout Desmond's flashes?

#81. Posted by: hookedonlost at April 19, 2007 2:28 PM

ANTP?

OK, now that's out of the way, I think that there are people on this board putting more thought into the whole flightsuit/helo thing than the writers did. The person who bailed out of the craft was wearing a face-covering helmet mask, because that was required to preserve the mystery conclusion to Desmond's time-flash (I nominate "flashy thingy"). It was a simple plot device and all else is backfill.

Personally, what makes me uncomfortable about Dez's character motivations is that he seems way too eager to have Penny stranded on the island with him. I understand that his flashy thingy might make him believe the dangling person was Penny, but he's profoundly disappointed when it isn't. Why? Shouldn't he be happy that Penny isn't stranded on the island now, too? Shouldn't he be happy to have changed the outcome of his flashy thingy that way?

#82. Posted by: Deep Cover at April 19, 2007 2:29 PM

Anybody know if the flightsuit and oxygen mask typical for regular aircraft or high altitude (U2) types?

#83. Posted by: CC at April 19, 2007 2:29 PM

Sorry if someone already said this - I haven't read through all the comments - but you could refer to Desmonds "future flashes" as the more normal "premonitions".

By the way - the old white-haired lady was in the monk's picture. Did you happen to see it?

#84. Posted by: Phil at April 19, 2007 2:33 PM

You guys are never gonna believe this, but I just say Michael AND the white haired lady in my fax room! They both said they're never gonna appear on the show again unless posters stop mentioning the 'ANTP'! Geeeeeeez!!

#85. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 2:36 PM

Re: Why does Dez keep saving Charlie?

On a character motive (as well as philosphical) level, it is because we've learned that Dez is a man who defies authority and refuses to accept what anyone else explains to him is his fate, whether that someone else is an abbot, a wealthy scotch-drinker, or a supernaturally gifted purveyor of cheap jewelry. He keeps saving Charlie because that is is Bhudda nature. Charlie keeps getting in life-threatening peril because that is *his* Bhudda nature. [See, e.g., the koan of the monk and the scorpion/frog and scorpion.]

Were I writing this, I'd make the collision/crisis point of this plotline a vision in which Desmond sees Charlie die saving someone else's life. This will force Desmond to a different decision, from choosing whether to save a life, to choosing who to allow to live and die. That's the point at which Charlie could complete his journey to redemption by his self-sacrifice, and Desmond would be forced to reconsider the logic and consequences of his perpetual rage against the machine.

I don't know if it actually will go that way, but I think that solution works.

#86. Posted by: Deep Cover at April 19, 2007 2:38 PM

We did get an answer to one of the questions that came up at the end of last season and again in "Flashes before your eyes". The question was about the picture of Des and Penny, was there one or two pictures? Penny had one by her bed and Des has one on the island. Now both are on the island. Does this mean anything, probaly not but it is an answer.

#87. Posted by: michael at April 19, 2007 2:42 PM

I love "DESMONITIONS"!!!

#88. Posted by: hookedonlost at April 19, 2007 2:44 PM

The whole Abraham and Isaac thing did make sense sort of. It really would have made sense if Des let the arrow go. Because in the story of Abraham and Isacc, Abraham was going to sacrafice Isaac. He never stopped it, but God did. In the same way if Des didn't save Charlie maybe Charlie still wouldn't have died because the island would have saved him. Basically just letting it go and trusting that another way would have saved Charlie. Just in the same way Abraham trusted that God would provide a sacrifice so it wouldn't have to be Isaac.
So, the use of the illustration wasn't 100% accurate it was a little shifted for this particular story.

#89. Posted by: Deirdre at April 19, 2007 2:45 PM

Excellent review Mac!

I do not think saving Charlie has altered the outcome of the events till now. The parachute woman jumped out of the helicopter much before Desmond decided to alter the sequence of events and save Charlie. It probably altered the future events which is not shown. Much like what the Oracle in Matrix says, you only see till your choice and the rest of the future depends on what choice you made.

Not sure why the producers decided to use a helicopter instead of a sea plane or a ship. It is a rather curious choice to reach an island at least 1000 miles away from nearest known land.

This episode also shows that Des is honing his future seeing skills. The beginning parts of the vision are unclear chopped fragments, but later get to a continuous and clear visual sequence. Soon, he might be able to force see future rather than involuntary flashes before the eyes! (Another reference to Matrix where Neo learns to fly at the end of the first movie and perfects the ability in the second one).

It seems writers are working overtime to make pregnant woman samples for Juliette to experiment!

#90. Posted by: aj at April 19, 2007 2:46 PM

Helo vs. jet...monk picture...Charlie's impending demise...too much...brain overloading...synapses firing in sub-atomic cerebellumular orgiastic euphoria...

I think the next big question is...to whom is Naomi (the parachutist) related? My guess is that she is working for Penny, but is actually Rose's daughter. Does anyone recall if Rose ever said anything about having a daughter?

#91. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 19, 2007 2:52 PM

OK, I have a question. Why did Desmond get the First Aid Kit from Jack? When Dez was having his "Desmonition" and saw Charlie die, Hurley shouted at Desmond to "Do something!", to which Desmond responded there was nothing he could do. When Dez went to get the First Aid Kit, I figured what he was going to do was let the arrow hit Charlie (as to not alter the chain of events), but then have the means to "do something" (save him), via the kit. So why didn't the kit ever come into play? I suppose maybe it will come in handy if the parachutist is injured.

Also, as far as I can tell, we've never met Naomi (the parachutist) before, she is definitely NOT Walt's Mom and is defitely NOT Ecko's Lazarus Girl. I suppose we'll find out she's linked to someone on the island, though. They always are....

#92. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 2:53 PM

@ransomjackson- I like the way you think, Brotha : )

What if the girl is related to the Original Henry Gale? I'd love to see him come back into the fold.

#93. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 2:57 PM

***** TINY SPOILERS *****

@ransomjackson "I think the next big question is...to whom is Naomi (the parachutist) related? My guess is that she is working for Penny, but is actually Rose's daughter. Does anyone recall if Rose ever said anything about having a daughter?"

I have seen spoilers that state Rose has a daughter. When I first saw it, I was like, "So?" But your idea is interesting. I rather think that it would be stramge though seeing as Naomi is presumably Portuguese. The Henry Gale cross idea is interesting as well. Rumer has it that he is the one that cured Rachal.

***** TINY SPOILERS *****

#94. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 3:01 PM

As you know, I am a huge fan of Doc Jensen over at EW.com, he included a great little tidbit in his article this week that I wanted to share (this is original material material from Entertainment Weekly and Jeff "doc" Jensen- Credit where credit is due, and all).

"In ''Catch 22,'' the characters Ruth and Naomi have nothing to do with each other. But in The Bible, they are the stars of the Book of Ruth. Well, it just so happens that the book right before Ruth is the Book of Judges. The very last story in the Book of Judges is the story of a war among the tribes of Israel. The bad guy in this story: the Tribe of Benjamin. The war started over a murder that the other tribes believed needed to be avenged; it ended with the near-obliteration (''The Purge,'' perhaps?) of the Benjaminites. Here's where it gets creepy: In the aftermath, the people of Israel felt badly about wiping out Benjamin's people. So they decided to repopulate his tribe by forcing the women from another city to join the tribe of Benjamin. You know: to make babies and stuff."

#95. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 3:03 PM

@Deirdre
I was actually thinking more big picture besides just the one instance...

#96. Posted by: CC at April 19, 2007 3:05 PM

@ sarah c,

I like the way you like the way I think...Gosh Dharm it...there go those synapses again...brain hurts...(slugs down some Dharm-ale and some Dharma-sprin)...ahhh...that's better...

I forgot about Ol' Henry Gale...but wasn't he in some way related to Rose? He was her first husband or some such? Weren't they both from Minnesota or something like that?

#97. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 19, 2007 3:05 PM

mac-1st time I ever posted--love your reviews--insightful & informative--suggestion for Desmond's "future flashes" could be premonitions--that might be what you are looking for...now I have to go back & read the review, haven't had time

#98. Posted by: Lisa at April 19, 2007 3:06 PM

I don’t know what the hell is up with the picture on the monk's desk and the oracle. Is that his Mom??? His ex-lover/wife/girl/concubine????? Are monks allowed to have pictures of women in abbeys??? Anyway it is really obvious that they put that picture there for a reason as to what the relation between the monk and the woman is left uncertain.
Regarding Desmond’s future flashes/ flux capacitors I truly believe that he is convinced that it would have been penny in that parachute if he had not saved Charlie. It is really obvious that Desmond is also very devious and self centered. I mean he was willing to sacrifice Charlie (even though he's an ex-junkie washout musician) to get Penny back. Not cool Des!!!
Also kind of funny is Hurley convincing Jin that they would be camping in the woods with a fire sleeping under the stars. I mean haven’t they been doing that for the past two and a half months except for the Dharma marshmallows?

#99. Posted by: mapache at April 19, 2007 3:10 PM

@mac "Kate still wants Jack"

I find it interesting that Kate could not make up her mind about who she liked - Sawyer or Jack but now that Jack has become "out of reach" she wants him.

#100. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 19, 2007 3:11 PM

I belive there was speculation of a Henry Gale/Rose relationship, but I think that was just among us in the forum, not on the show. I'm pretty sure Rose (in the Rose/Bernard Flashback episode) was living in New York, the Bronx I think (or was it when the Losties first heard the Monster that she said that?).

It seems, though, that all the characters will turn out to be connected on some level or another, so they fun part is being surprised by HOW.

Also, lots of non-Portugese folks speak Portugese, I dont think the book is a dead giveaway as to Naomi's nationality. Perhaps there was someone, or several someones on the helicopter/other possible aircraft with her?

#101. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 3:12 PM

LONG TIME READER....Probably only post ever....Not on same level as other posters........

Absolutley loved Jin campfire story and Hurleys reaction!

#102. Posted by: Mike at April 19, 2007 3:19 PM

Brazilians also speak portuguese.

#103. Posted by: mapache at April 19, 2007 3:19 PM

Brazilians also speak portuguese.

#104. Posted by: mapache at April 19, 2007 3:19 PM

Moriah Vineyards and the comparison of Desmond's testing to that of Abraham is certainly not a coincidence. The writers play games. They make connections but only some are connected to the Island's story and the past stories of the lost ones. Just like the lost ones' connections to each other. Some are important and some are not. Life is full of coincidences that mean nothing but into which we read volumes. Other coincidences prove to be earth shattering.

In Desmond's Pas encore vu, he also sees himself with Penny and the famous Penny/Desmond photo but these were not really from the future but from the past. So they were only telling him that Penny is close because unbeknownst to him she is seeking him.

After nearly 3 years we still do not know the conntection between the others and Dharma. We still do not know if there are other others (other than demented French women.) We do not know the relationship between Penny's daddy, his company, Dharma, or the others. We don't know why those message tubes ended up in a junk pile. We haven't the foggiest clue what the smoke monster is. We don't know why some people (Rose and Locke) had mystery cures. And how did Rose know her cancer was in remission. And how did Penny know to look for magnetic anomolies?

Are the writers keeping a list of all the stuff about which they've got a lot of explaining to do?

I am seeing a final episode after the 13th season when Penny lands on the island. Like an Agatha Christie mystery she will explain everything to everybody. Through flashbacks we will see scenes we've seen before but with new information added that the participants were ignorant of.

AP

#105. Posted by: August Paul at April 19, 2007 3:20 PM

In that monk picture, the background is clearly fake, like one of the pull down background choices that Des and Penny had when they had their picture taken.

Also, I'm not good with the time line stuff, but they aired last week's episode before the new one, and Juliette said she'd been on the island 3 years. In the new episode, Des said he'd been on the island 3 years. Any connection there?

Finally, what happened to that bus that Hurley found? Why didn't they take that into the jungle?

#106. Posted by: jiggy at April 19, 2007 3:21 PM

A lot of people noticed the picture of the Abbot and the Oracle (oh really :)?) which leads me to think it was not much of an Easter egg but rather something we were supposed to notice. Anyone out there in TIVOland review that scene to see how it was set up for us to notice?

AP

#107. Posted by: August Paul at April 19, 2007 3:26 PM

@August Paul: Good point. It was *very* clear and the shot lingered on the desk.

#108. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 3:28 PM

I'm not convinced by Desmond's new found Chronovision (©Danny, 214BC). I have the sneaking suspicion that the visions being 'fed' to him by entities or persons unknown, in order to convince him to act in a certain way.

Up to now, these 'future legends' (I won't copyright that one - I'll give David Bowie full credit) have contained only the truth or variations on the past. I suspect that in the remaining episodes the visions will coerce Des to act in one way, while events go in another. We've lived too long with the Island not to realise that things the losties are shown are 10% truth and 90% con.

#109. Posted by: Danny at April 19, 2007 3:29 PM

@sarahc: Not to flame you or your Doc Jensen, but I went to wiki and bookrags for character description and plot summaries for Catch 22 by Joseph Heller and can find no reference to even a minor character named Ruth nor one named Naomi. Admittedly, I have never read the entire novel and do not have a full extensive knowledge of the tale. Can you clarify or better confirm Doc Jensen's information?

Really, I am not flaming, but am looking for the connection to Catch 22. In reviewing wikipedia, here is the major theme of Catch 22:

"The book sets out the absurdity of living by the rules of others, be they friends, family, governments, systems, religions or philosophies. Heller suggests that rules left unchecked will take on a life of their own, forming a bureaucracy in which important matters (eg those affecting life and death) are trivialized and trivial matters (eg clerical errors) assume enormous importance. He concludes that the only way to survive such an insane system is to be insane oneself."

So, maybe Des' rebellion against the universes' rules of life and death will lead to his eventual insanity??? Just a thought. Maybe he goes insane thinking that Penny is always 'just around the bend' (literally and figuratively LOL!) and loses his tenuous grasp on reality. A mad Scotsman running willy-nilly (and maybe naked!) thru the jungle. Should make for good rating with the 15 - 45 age female audience!

#110. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 3:35 PM

Im telling you get the jig-saw puzzles
do em flip em over brutha all will be revealed brutha...only in the dark that is

#111. Posted by: abigerbang at April 19, 2007 3:41 PM

@BELost-
I haven't read Catch-22 myself (I tried once, and couldn't get through more than a couple chapters). I took Doc Jensen's word on the points he made. If he didn't research his article, shame on him. I posted only becuase I thought it sounded interesting and thought others may agree. I actually thought the MORE interesting piece of information in that little blurb revolved around the Tribe on Benjamin.

I have to admit, seeing Desmond naked and running willy-nilly again is worth the price of his sanity, if you ask me : )

#112. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 3:45 PM

WAAAAAY off the subject, but I was just looking at the map on the blast door in the Swan trying to see if we know anymore about what's on there. I noticed the portion that said 'Following AH/MDG Incident' and got curious. AH must be Alvar Hanso, and I thought MDG may have been a reference to DeGroot. Not sure now.

If you have a little time, check out MDG, which stands for Millenium Development Goals. Just as a tidbit, here's their tag line and 8 goals to achieve by 2015:

Tag Line:
“We know what to do, We know when to do it, We know who should do it, We have adequate resources, We can monitor progress, There is no excuse not to fulfil the… …Millennium Development Goals”

8 Goals:
1. Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger
2. Achieve Universal Primary Education 3. Promote Gender Equality and Empower Women
4. Reduce Child Mortality
5. Improve Maternal Health
6. Combat HIV/AIDS, Malaria and Other Disseases
7. Ensure Environmental Sustainability 8. Develop a Global Partnership for Development

#'s 4 & 5 look familiar to say the least....interesting reading.

#113. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 3:50 PM

Yeah, I agree and I did even read the last few chaps of Judges just to see if I could glean any more details or insights. However, the original connection Jensen laid out re: Naomi, Ruth and Judges falls apart if they aren't in Catch 22, doesn't it? Or am I missing something?

#114. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 3:52 PM

Hey guys -- I finally figured out how to number the comments. You should now see an ID at the bottom of each comment post.

Hope that helps!

#115. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 3:57 PM

Holy Numbering Batman!!! Well done -- like I like my CrispySeaStakes!

#116. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 3:59 PM

@BELost- Don't read too much into it! I don't know if there's a connection, can't it just be interesting?

And MAC, the numbered posts are awesome! You rule : )

#117. Posted by: sarah c at April 19, 2007 3:59 PM

Desmond's girlfriend, the one he left to become a Monk was named Ruth and I believe the Pilot is named Naomi. I saw this on another site which was giving information about next weeks episode.

#118. Posted by: michael at April 19, 2007 4:01 PM

Does anyone else think that Sawyer got Kate preggers when they did it in her tent? I know it was the soap opera story on this episode, but it shouldn't go overlooked, as fertility seems to be a major theme here. I mean, unless of course, has anyone seen a dharma-condom lying around?

#119. Posted by: Matt at April 19, 2007 4:02 PM

@MAC - ANTP brutha.

@Deep Cover - Your point about Charlie giving his life for someone else actually happened. When Desmond dove in the water to save Claire in "Flahses Before Your Eyes", he did it with the intention of saving Charlie who would have died trying to save someone else.

On another point, I can't buy into the theory that if Charlie dies via arrow to the throat the pilot magically turns into Penny. The island is weird but that's a stretch.

Meanwhile Desmond seems to be the ultimate self-saboteur. Every time he is about to commit to something or someone (Ruth; the monastery; Penny; the army; the button) he does something to ruin what he's built (getting drunk and running away is the usual recourse). Will he quit on his Charlie saving task next? Just a thought.

#120. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at April 19, 2007 4:03 PM

Congratulations to the following:

4 carrie
8 denise
15 Chris
16 davidrh
23 Cecil Rose
42 Jack Attack

and
...
...
wait for it
...
...
108
...
...
mac!

#121. Posted by: Danny at April 19, 2007 4:08 PM

@sarahc:

Agreed. Definitely interesting. Relevant? Only if there is a possible connection...

Oh well, EVERYTHING can't be connected to our Losties -- OR CAN IT???

@mac: Great job with the numbering. I started to count up to my first post today, but its been so active I didn't think I could count that high. I only have so many fingers and toes! Is there a connection between me and our 4-toed friend on the isle of mis-tery? Could be...

#122. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 4:08 PM

As always Mac, great review!

I loved this episode mostly because it was hilarious. And like you Mac, the Desmond plot seemed so far-fetched until last night. It's starting to make a bit more sense and now I know that Desmond is more than mere eye candy (he has a seriously sexy swagger).

I have two favorite scenes: 1st few minutes when Charlie get's the arrow I actually screamed out loud and said "OMG, he's gonna die in this episode". My roommate thinks I'm a total lunatic, btw. 2nd best, Jin's ghost story! I have no clue what he was saying but it was so hilarious! Way back in season 1, Jin was so worried about fitting in and being understood. Now, he's just as goofy as Charlie and Hurley. And that's a good thing.

One more comment! In Expose, Sawyer found a walkie-talkie in Nikki/Paulo belongings. When will he use it to listen in on the Others?? Why hasn't he told Sayid? Frustrating!

#123. Posted by: amelia at April 19, 2007 4:11 PM

So mac, can you turn on the numbering on my blog, too? After all, I might run out of the fingers of one hand to count them on.

Now for your next feat of magic, how 'bout a 'trusted poster' status, so the ones so designated don't have to sit in durance vile waiting for release due to a dreaded link?

And could you release my 'Schrodinger' post so it could lie reasonably close to Alex's, to which is is sort of a response (and to a much earlier poster as well)?

#124. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 4:17 PM

@Cecil: Numbering I can do (it's active on "House" now), but reordering comments opens up a WHOLE can of worms.

Re: post in purgator -- the trick is not to use any URLs, including those to Fodder blogs. I had to tighten things up to avoid spam. However, if you post without any links, the post should go right through.

#125. Posted by: mac at April 19, 2007 4:23 PM

@Alex/post 120:

Point taken, but I mean a genuine choice, no cheating. Dez got to save Claire *and* Charlie by his action in that prior sequence. There should be a future history predicament for Dez that is simply unresolvable without *someone* dying. That's real drama, without the cop-out.

#126. Posted by: Deep Cover at April 19, 2007 4:26 PM

Concerning the SatPhone:

Since island communications are down, this phone with no charge could become a VERY important thing for both the Losties and the Bensylvanians. The Losties should hop in Hurley's van and go down to the island Best Buy to pick up a SatPhone charger before (Ben steals it of course).

#127. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at April 19, 2007 4:29 PM

I just had a Desmonition: in an hour I see frames of me 1. drinking a beer, 2. throwing darts, 3. drinking a smooth glass of MacCutcheon, neat, and 4. Aaron spits up Exorcist-style on Charlie's face and I somehow have to save him

Kinda wierd, huh? If I don't save him will my high school girlfriend fall out of the sky?

#128. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 4:30 PM

@Mac/post 115:

Well done! The post numbering system is going to make referencing earlier posts a lot less of a hassle. Kudos!

I forsee a future in which the first poster gets no respect, but the 4th, 8th, 15th, 16th, 23rd, and 42nd posts will have fierce competition.

#129. Posted by: Deep Cover at April 19, 2007 4:31 PM

@Deep Cover/129

Blowing my own trumpet --> 121

#130. Posted by: Danny at April 19, 2007 4:34 PM

I'm new to the site, while I have been watching Lost since the beginning, I only started looking for blog sites after last week's episode, but I have to congratulate the recapper, both last week's and this week's post were great. Apologies if I say anything y'all already agreed on prior to that!

First of all, I am SO glad that the formula of one episode on the beach, one in Othersville is finally over. I understand that there is too much going on to include a beach adventure AND a Others adventure in the same episode, but the constant back and forth really killed the story telling momentum for me this season.

I have to ask, is anyone else getting a little tired of the "Final Destination" storyline? I'm not sure how the writers can get out of it at this point, short of either killing Charlie (please don't!) or having Charlie die then resuscitated (a la "Final Destination 2", but surely the writers can find a better source material to homage!).

In the Abraham on Mount Moriah story, Abraham brings his son to the mountain, raises the knife and is willing to make the sacrifice until God says "wait, just joking! It was only a test! Had this been an actual sacrifice this announcement would be followed by emergency instructions!" Well, Des brings Charlie to the jungle, gets him to where the arrow is pointed squarely at his neck, and at the last minute his conscience has him stop the sacrifice. Maybe this is his test, and the writers will use THAT as a way to end the Charlie must die story.

As for the helo (assuming it was a helo, it sure sounded like one and that would be consistant with the size of the splashdown), it is totally plausible that Pen has a rough idea of where the island is, and is camped on a ship sending search helos out to find the exact location. Also, I live in Hawaii, and while you can't send a helo from LA or Japan out here, there are a lot of islands you can get to/from here by helo, so maybe the next closest island to our Losties is not as far as we all think...

#131. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 4:36 PM

Maybe I am wrong, but I think you are somewhat missing the key point here. It has to do with Abraham-Isaac. Desmond does not "change the future" by thwarting his premonition and saving Charlie. He changes the future by working so hard to set it up as his premonition dictated. This is the new element here. Desmond is NOT controlled by fate (nor is Charlie, I expect). Abraham decided to sacrifice Isaac even though he did not want to because of his faith. Only God stopped him from following through. Desmond was ready to do likewise but could not follow through. Perhaps it's because he is a coward. But maybe it's because Abraham was doing God's will whereas Desmond was only doing his own will. In either case, though it is WILL, not fate that determines things.

#132. Posted by: Jon Burack at April 19, 2007 4:39 PM

@BELost and @sarahc
Regarding the Doc Jensen article, the way I interpreted it was that he is referring to the Lost episode entitled "Catch 22" and not the book of the same title. So in this episode there is really no relation between the characters (that we know of) but in the Bible it is significant.

#133. Posted by: copwife at April 19, 2007 4:45 PM

@Steve B - That would also explain the bumpy ride for Juliet when she came to the island, they probably have to go through it somehow.

Good point but what I've been having a problem with is this ... why would the ride be bumpy only for Juliet? How about the other passengers and captain, wouldn't it also be bumpy for them?


I have to admit that when Charlie took one in the throat, I thought of Desmond having a dream BUT still, wasn't it great to see him hang ten once and for all? Even though we knew it wasn't true.


I vote for Des-monition, submitted by Red...Neck...Man


@mac - the numbered comments are nice.


@abigerbang Im telling you get the jig-saw puzzles do em flip em over brutha all will be revealed brutha...only in the dark that is.

Hey as far as I'm concerned, list here what you found on the back of the jigsaw puzzles, but preface it with SPOILER ALERT so as not to offend anyone. I'm sooo in left field that I'd welcome any additional info at all. Anyone feel the same way?


#134. Posted by: ButchM at April 19, 2007 4:49 PM

I guess then, the real question is where are these visions coming from? If they are from God (whom the Monks and the Oracle seem to think have a big plan for our boy Des), then making sure the things in the visions happen are indeed following God's will. If the "fusions" spring from somewhere else, well then that is a different story!

#135. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 4:51 PM

Still wading my way thru the myriad of comments, so forgive if I repeat any info post-comment #95.

BTW, ANTP?? ;-) sorry, I digress...

@sarah c: you capitalized on a trend I was hoping to comment on anyway, you just beat me to it. Somehow all these OT references are going to be tied together. It's no accident that these names (Jacob, Rachel, Isaac, Naomi, Ruth, Mt. Moriah, etc.) are being introduced and like a puzzle it's all going to "fit" together. We're missing a few "patriarchs" here, though...and if we're going to have a Ruth and Naomi, then we better get a David at some point... lol

@mac: numbering the posts...DUUUDE...you rock.

#136. Posted by: debilost at April 19, 2007 4:53 PM


@ Bcre8ve - In SOS, Rose explains to Sun that she had a daughter that died. I think it was SOS.

#137. Posted by: amelia at April 19, 2007 4:55 PM

@Deep Cover (and Danny) - I forsee a future in which the first poster gets no respect, but the 4th, 8th, 15th, 16th, 23rd, and 42nd posts will have fierce competition.

An absolute GREAT point - and something to look forward to in future blogs. You can come out of hiding after such a gem :>)

#138. Posted by: ButchM at April 19, 2007 5:00 PM

Thanks, mac. I wasn't really requesting a re-ordering, just a relaease while Alex's was near th3 end of the queue, so the two would be relativilty close together.

The post I'm talking about has aa URL because its connected to a funny cartoon of the Shroedinger's paradox, and Bob-the-Angry-Flower strip titled "Schroedinger's Fridge".

But then I had a thought. If a post is held, then released, does it go in the bottom of the current posts, or does it show up in the position based on when it was submitted? If the latter, does it mess up the numbering scheme? And does it mean people who've already read past that point when it was released will never see it, not realizing that a "new" post materialized behind them?

#139. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 5:03 PM

Had to go away and actually live my REAL LIFE for a few hours. Really enjoying everyone’s humor today . . . (I’m sorry for being the first one to mention that “picture thing” way up front today . . mac, I beg your forgivemness,) A lot of the postings after “CC’ brought up the “NOT A HELICOPTER!” line sure make sense . . . That dude, rather, dudette in the trees was certainly not dressed for Island hopping with TC and Magnum . . Looked more like Gary Powers’ little sister . . .So again, not all is as it seems......

Concerning Desmond's choices, we should remember that Catch-22 means, basically, "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" . .

And then, one question: I thought the original Henry Gale was that dead body Sayid dug up at the crashed balloon site. Didn't he bring in a drivers license showing his picture?

And bcre8ve . . . the knee is slowly getting better, thank you . . My doc says I just need to be a little less theatrical on the podium . .

And Red . .Neck . . Man . . . I just gotta see your fax room! I read that, laughed very loudly, spun sideways in my chair to explain to my wife what was so funny . . . and banged my knee . . .

hmmmm. Conducting in a prone position . . . Never been done as far I know . .

AND “Helo vs. jet...monk picture...Charlie's impending demise...too much...brain overloading...synapses firing in sub-atomic cerebellumular orgiastic euphoria...”
Å® Posted by: ransomjackson

Highlight of my afternoon. It’s a pleasure to be in this company.

Cheers.

#140. Posted by: davidrh at April 19, 2007 5:12 PM

Finally (insert contented exhale here), LOST appears to be back on track. No more gratuitous violence (others beating up on our heroes), heaped on top of improbable events (sophisticated spinal surgery done in a dimly lit fish tank), and episodes sprinkled with question after question after question lacking not only answers, but also the mere pretense of resolution (Who ARE the “others?” WHAT happened to the hatch(es)? Will Sayid EVER get his own story line again?).

Now we are firmly entrenched with the castaways, and voyeuristically enmeshed in the mundane yet compelling trials and tribulations of what it may mean to be marooned on a polar-bear-infested tropical island that exhibits inexplicable electromagnetism. Throw in an “ah ha” moment from a back-story or two, and I think we can all agree that THIS is why we began watching this show in the first place.

What’s more fun than pondering some harmless psycho-social questions?

Like, how completely outside the realm of possibility is it for a random group of crash survivors to suddenly decide to band together for a seemingly aimless “camping trip” even with the promise of a campfire and toasted marshmallows courtesy of Dharma foresight (what, the powers that be didn’t pop for a candle-powered s’mores maker?).

And just how gut wrenching is it to watch how Sawyer and Kate are reciprocally using each other, and how they both KNOW it, and how they both are OK with it? (And can we assume that the last Dharma drop included a box or two of Hanso condoms?)

And Sawyer and Jack? Ping-pong? Drop the pretense and paddles already and just get out a ruler, boys.

And are we expected to believe that after being marooned on an island for months and finding out that just over the mangrove swamp and thru the rainforest, certain creature comforts of Losteria Lane, Bennsylvania exist and NOBODY thinks to pull up stakes and re-colonize a perfectly good abandoned Other Town? (Remember, these are the same folks who thought collapse-prone CAVES were a step up in the lodging department.)

And finally, after LOST wraps, WHEN and WHERE are we going to see Henry Ian Cusick (aka Des) next? How about as Jamie Fraser from author Diana Gabaldon’s Outlander series. Surely the books have been optioned by Hollywood? And surely anyone can see that this particular Scot has the perfect set of pecs for Claire Beauchamp to lay her head on as she struggles to reconcile the comforts of her 20th century upbringing with the danger, romance, and intrigue of 18th century Scotland and all that ensues on the basis of THAT decision. (Heck, correct me if I’m wrong, but he’d be equally attractive to the Jack Randall’s and Lord John Grey’s out there, eh?) A touch of auburn highlights, a broadsword, and nine-yards of the Fraser plaid will turn Des (and his lil’ highlander: Best . . . Mac’ism . . . ever!) into a chieftain worthy of perpetual adoration with little matter to sex or century.

See, now THESE are the things it is a delight to be thinking about after a good episode.

BTW, best line that sums up the entire show (and likely the pitch the producer(s) made to ABC): “Even if I could explain it to you in Korean, it wouldn’t make any sense.”

#141. Posted by: desertrat at April 19, 2007 5:12 PM

@mac:
(I need a better name for these things -- "future thoughts?" "time bombs?" "flux capacitors?").

I heard Hurley call them "future-grams" and it cracked me up.

#142. Posted by: howdydoo at April 19, 2007 5:19 PM

Okay, I only read to post number 100 so far, but had to stop and post this: THANKS MAC for finally numbering the posts!
Point two - Naomi and Ruth are both biblical names as well. Seems like all the main other characters have biblical names. Oh, and anyone notice the picture on the monks table? (KIDDING - just kidding. Don't be hatin...)

#143. Posted by: bunnylover at April 19, 2007 5:21 PM

@Mike/102
"Not on same level as other posters........Absolutley loved Jin campfire story and Hurleys reaction!"
No, Mike, you clearly are NOT on the same level as other posters, since you failed to mention (for the thousandth time) the picture on the monk's desk. ;) Please don't be shy about posting again - I also loved Jin's campfire story. I also liked when Hurley said, "Leave it to the master," when he needed to get Jin to join the party. He seems to have gained a lot of confidence. I was surprised that Jin was so easy-going about leaving Sun.

What I don't get about ANTP is, 1) I don't wear my glasses to watch TV; 2) I don't recognize people, esp when I've only seen them once - so I was happy to see Mac mention it.
However, everyone who mentioned that picture spent a lot of energy freeze-framing, checking out the cheap photoshopping, in essence, paying attention to detail. And then they missed seeing the mention in the review, missed the dozen or so posts about it (I don't buy the simultaneous posting excuse - several of them were far apart) - a complete lack of attention to detail.

@Jon Burack /132 - I thought the same thing - for what reason would those 4 guys have gone off on a little party? And how did Desmond know it had to be that day? The other des-monitions (love that, Red...Neck...Man) just happened when they happened. Des went thru a lot of prep work to make this one happen. Maybe *that's* what changed the result.

#144. Posted by: hurling at April 19, 2007 5:36 PM

One more thing... and this really bothered me. Desmond gets the guys to leave the camp to go camping. Huh? Like weren't they already camping? That just didn't make any sense to me. Why not tell them he found something they should see, or needed their help with killing a big boar. Anything else but 'camping'???? I'm going to rewatch the epi tonight, but I though the helo also sounded like a jet doing a death spin. How do we know Naomi was the pilot of whatever crashed? Passenger? More survivors than her?
"We're gonna need a bigger helo..."

#145. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 19, 2007 5:39 PM

@desertrat/141
"And Sawyer and Jack? Ping-pong? Drop the pretense and paddles already and just get out a ruler, boys."

ROTFLMAO!!!!

#146. Posted by: hurling at April 19, 2007 5:45 PM

@hurling (love the name!)
"I was surprised that Jin was so easy-going about leaving Sun."

Me too. He seemed pretty flip about going off with the boys. Perhaps Sun asked him if he had cleaned the fishing nets one time too many.

And by the way, did anyone else think "Gilligan's Island" when Jin said "Rescue!" while the helicopter sound was starting to be heard? I certainly laughed when he said that.

#147. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at April 19, 2007 5:47 PM

As I faithfully and with anticipation read this Blog every week, I am abit surprised that no one has mentioned the connection of Henry Gale aka Ben to The Wizard of Oz. The wizard was Henry Gale aka professor. He ruled the Emerald City, controlled the munchkins, it was another dimensional land...anyone see any more similarities? Thoughts?

#148. Posted by: Diane at April 19, 2007 5:57 PM

@Mike/102 and @amelia/123: regarding hurley and jin...

Hurley and Jin were a crack team of comedians this week weren't they! What about the two of them whistling "Bridge over the River Kwai" as they were trudging along the beach! Priceless!!!

#149. Posted by: BELost at April 19, 2007 5:59 PM

Maybe my childhood memory has been completely eradicated, but Henry Gale is presumably Uncle Henry (Of Auntie Em and Uncle Henry fame) as Dorothy's surname is Gale. And while I am new to this site, I bet it was discussed ad naseum last season.

BTW, the Korean word for camping? It's "camping".

#150. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 6:00 PM

Mac,

Finally got time to read your post. I guess everyone saw the oricle as well.

All we need is Morpheous and Neo to show up on the island.

#151. Posted by: Sean at April 19, 2007 6:05 PM

When did Rose say her daughter died, I can't recall her saying anything like that in S.O.S or is this something from off the show, like that Diary?

#152. Posted by: sky at April 19, 2007 6:13 PM

Just as an aside, the first two Superman vs the Flash footraces in DC Comics (Superman #199 and the Flash #175) ended in a tie. In the first race (orchestrated by the UN, and held for charity), there were indeed rules that Superman could not fly, and the Flash was able to vibrate through the great pyramids, while Superman had to run over them. The Flash was stopped briefly by a glass trap across the route, Superman by a Kryptonite based trap. In later races, the Flash is awarded the title the fastest man on the planet, but Supes is deemed to be just about as fast.

And yes, as the previous poster pointed out, it was a nice allusion to "Stand By Me"

#153. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 6:15 PM

Schroedinger's Cat
------------------
"Schroedinger's cat" was a thought experiment of a German physicist to illustrate the principles of quantum mechanics. Suppose, Schroedinger said, we place a cat in a box with a device that detects the decay of a radioactive atom, which decay is exactly 50% probable.

We then wire the device so that if the atom decays, the device releases a deadly gas and kills the cat. Now we seal the cat in the box with the device. Is the cat dead or alive?

Common sense says it's either one or the other. But quantum mechanics says the cat is both alive AND dead, the two states existing simultaneously in superposition, until an observer opens the box, and "collapses the Probability functions" into either the one outcome or the other.

So the pilot is either Penny or Not Penny, depending on whether Desmond, the observer, allows his future vision to play out as he saw it or doesn't and changing the pilot from Penny to Not Penny or vice versa can occur even after the pilot is hanging in the tree, depending on whether Desmond has interfered or not interfered.

For a very funny cartoon on Schroedinger's ideas, see:

www*angryflower*com/schrod*gif

Change the asterisks to periods.

#154. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 19, 2007 6:37 PM

Great review. I must say that you have found more interesting points in this episode than I did.

Btw my favorite line was also (like desertrat mentioned) Hurley's :"Dude even if I spoke Korean, it wouldn't have made any sense".

#155. Posted by: Nemo at April 19, 2007 6:54 PM

@ Sky, #152. Rose's Daughter.

Now I know I'm an official Lost Nerdette....

The scene where Rose & Sun are discussing the death of her daughter was actually a deleted scene -- part of Season 2 bonus features. Nerdette Power!

#156. Posted by: amelia at April 19, 2007 6:56 PM

The problem with Schroedinger's is that the cat already knows if it is alive or dead before the box is opened! The theorum works great for subatomic particles, but unless you buy that the only reality (at least on the Island) is perception, it doesn't work as well on people. The only reason we had to believe that the peron on the parachute was Pen was the photo the person carries, and since it appears to be a print out or photocpy, it looks like something Pen would give to a search and rescuer, not a photo she would carry herself. I'm not buying that she was ever/or could have been ever Pen. Now if Des can find Ben's magic box, maybe he can make her show up on the island that way!

#157. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 7:03 PM


@sarah
I think you got a point there. The only problem is that in the Island Benjamin's tribe is the one which purged the Dharma. But overall, it fits nicely with the whole scenario and I am sure we will see more on the sacrifice point more. I remember Locke saying about Boon "He was the sacrifice the Island demanded".

I am not sure if this is a clue or a production glitch, but in the later part of desmonition, Charlie is shown holding one end of the parachute. This incident is clearly after Charlie death, so is this a clue that Desmond would eventually avert Charlie's death or a production glitch when they choose a scene inadvertently?

On a separate note, the Others camp must be conducting some kind of martial training for its inhabitants. Ben is shown to be a master with sticks (incident when Sawyer tried to trick him to electrocute) and Juliette shows her Judo skills when Kate attacks her.

#158. Posted by: aj at April 19, 2007 7:13 PM

@ mac: You da Man!
Not only did you figure out how to number the posts, but it works on all recaps, not just this one! I got to 122 before I tried another recap, so sorry if someone has already typed this.
GRAA, the helo pilot is a very interesting twist.

#159. Posted by: onelostdude at April 19, 2007 7:49 PM

Re #152, what's the thought on plot points revealed in deleted scenes? Will the writers treat the info (ie Rose's daughter's death) as cannon, or feel free to ignore the conversation?

I hope Naomi isn't related to Paolo (who was Brazillian and a Portuguese speaker, right?) I don't know if I could sit through another flashback with him in it...

#160. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 8:07 PM

Holy shit does anyone read the rewiews!!!!! Yes the women on the desk is the same as the one in the store> Lets pay attention!!!

#161. Posted by: dantheman at April 19, 2007 8:11 PM

Do you want to go camping? LOL...next week Charlie might ask Claire on a date to spend the day swimming at the beach.

Perhaps dropping the word "future" in future flashes settles the problem. Desmond's flashes sounds fine to me. Although I do like Desmonitions too. Props to Red neck man i think it was.

I got my abs workout in laughing at post # 85..thank you.

There seems to be confusion on the Abraham/Isaac relationship to Desmond/Charlie. Regarding last nights ep, wouldnt Pen=Isaac not Charlie=Isaac? The test was the sacrifice... not the fact that an individual dies. Des' sacrifice would have been to give up what he perceived to be Pen coming to the island. He seemed to pass the test although it was a close one. I find the argument that allowing Charlie to die is the same as offering Isaac up for a sacrifice.

Having spent a couple years in Scotland I must admit, as previously posted,by weepict, some of the accents were a wee bit off. AND even if you are into the whole Global Warming castastrophe as true science, I still dont think they are growing too many grapes in the highlands yet.



#162. Posted by: kilorooster at April 19, 2007 8:16 PM

Also did anyone notice the monk tell des that they made 108 case of that wine??????

#163. Posted by: dantheman at April 19, 2007 8:21 PM

As far as I know, the only wine from Scotland is Cairn o Mhor (from Perthshire), but nothing they bottle would fetch more than $20 a bottle. I have no idea if it's any good, but I am sticking to Aussie and California wines just in case

#164. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 8:26 PM

beLost:

I think Penny is on Desmond's trail because . . . Des told his scientist pal that he was time tripping. The pal didn't believe him so Des told the pal, "Thus and such is going to happen in that soccer game." And it didn't and that was all there was to that. EXCEPT that Des just had the wrong game. It did come to pass as he said it would and I figure the pal saw that game and realized Des wasn't nuts and he went to Penny with the story Desmond told him and the search began.

Catch 22 is this: The only way to get reassigned from fighter pilot duty is to be crazy. If you are crazy all you have to do is request the transfer out and it will be granted to you. The catch of Catch 22 is if you are sane enough to want to transfer out of that hellish duty you are deemed pretty damned rational;not at all insane and so your request is denied.

#165. Posted by: undaunted at April 19, 2007 8:28 PM

@ Cecil Rose/154: I went to happy hour (3 Bud Lights, 5 games of darts), went and got an hour massage which was sweet, came home, drank 2 more Bud Lights, partook in an extracarricular 'Smokey' activity, downed 1 more Bud Light, then read your comments at #154, and I have to say.......

YOU JUST BLEW MY FRICKIN' MIND!!

#166. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 8:46 PM

@FenwayBen/#157: that makes sense too....but I gotta say...after my Cecil Rose experience...wow...what a buzzkill right now.

Love ya brotha!!

#167. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 19, 2007 8:50 PM

You gotta love this line, Hurley to Desmond.."this is future crap isnt it"

#168. Posted by: kilorooster at April 19, 2007 10:03 PM

line of the week:

"(Dharma Twinkies + Mangos = Acid Reflux)"

thanks for another great recap.

#169. Posted by: Lauren at April 19, 2007 10:10 PM

Is it okay to speculate about the next week's episode, or is that considered bad form?

Sorry for the buzz kill Red...Neck...Man. Last thing I ever want to be is a buzz kill!

#170. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 10:14 PM

@mac: You rock. Thanks for a guaranteed laugh, each and every week. "The two have rabbit sex, which nearby castaways must have loved hearing all night..."

@desertrat #141: Greetings to a fellow Outlander fan. "A touch of auburn highlights, a broadsword, and nine-yards of the Fraser plaid..." Ahh, a girl can dream! No wonder Pen is searching to the ends of the Earth. I'd be willing to parachute in myself.

If the island is indeed a region of space-time where the laws of physics no longer apply, it would stand to reason that entering/exiting would be a bumpy ride. Maybe Penny and crew were making preparation for such when outfitting their helicopter pilot with an oxygen mask and parachute, before sling-shotting her through the Bermuda-triangle/black hole/vortex into the unknown. Same with Juliet’s OJ cocktail. I don’t think your typical submarine ride requires major sedation.

I’m anxiously awaiting Rousseau’s flashback episode, although it doesn’t appear to be in the plans for this season. That vague Frenchwoman has some explaining to do. Sixteen years on the island and no sightings of the Others, and now they’re popping up everywhere you turn? “Only whispers” indeed! I’m not buying what she has to sell.

#171. Posted by: Clementine at April 19, 2007 10:43 PM

I'm only about half way through the posts, so I'm sorry if anyone else has said this:
1. Why on Earth would someone go recon-ing in the dark?
2. FYI, the Book of Ruth is supposedly all about sacrificing in the pursuit of genuine love (so I've read, I'm not actually a biblical scholar). I assume that originally meant God-human love, but in this episode the ooey gooey sentiments in question are probably limited to the Penny-Des affair. Just more fuel to the sacrifice-theme fire.

#172. Posted by: KaytieD at April 19, 2007 11:12 PM

Whoa! I just realized that Naomi (the helio pilot) is the name of Ruth's mother-in-law in the Bible's Book of Ruth. The general gist of the story is that after Naomi's two sons die, she is left with just her daughter-in-law in a strange land.
I'm not smart enough to draw more than the obvious parallels. Does anyone else have any insight?

#173. Posted by: KaytieD at April 19, 2007 11:26 PM

The Book of Ruth: I'm not a biblical scholar either, but here's the short of it. Naomi is an Israelite, her husband moved her and her two sons to Moab. The two sons marry locals, but eventually all three men die. Naomi tells her two daughters-in-law to return to their families while she returns to Israel, one agrees but Ruth decides to go with Naomi. Once back in Israel, Ruth falls for a distant relation, but before they can marry, they must first get a closer relation to renounce his rights to the family's estate (including its daughter-in-law). He does, and following the tradition of the time, Ruth's first son is considered to be Naomi's, so as to continue the family line (this child was an ancestor of King David, which is why the story is important enough to make the Bible in the first place).

Okay, so anything after this is pure specualtion. We are dealing with a tribe (the Others) that, like Naomi in the Bible, can no longer continue their family line due to a tragedy. They have no problem, however, continuing their line by taking other people's kids (hello, Alex Russeau!). I don't think we're going to see a direct parallel (although, the producers could always put Ruth in with the tailies and say she was "always there" like Paolo and Nikki). But things don't look good for Baby Aaron staying with mom, I suspect getting him is high on Ben's agenda for Juliet. I suppose one of the taken children could lead the others, giving us a David parallel, but I have probably read too much into it already. I think the writers just took the two names form the same source, sometimes a cigar...

#174. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2007 11:52 PM

I'm getting quite sick of this show. There's WAY too much loose ends. If makers would concentrate on tying them together and explaining every oddity seen since today, it would still take a season or two to get this all over with.

I don't even care anymore what's the grand mystery. Like, what's the island's for and who are the others. I would like to know more about numbers, polar bears, giant birds, smoke things and all this other side trickery. Wheeen?!

#175. Posted by: InC at April 19, 2007 11:59 PM

I feel like there's usually a lot of over-reading done with Lost, but I think we might be on to something here, Fenway.
I love the idea that this is an explanation for the baby snatching. AND it's also worth pointing out that waaay down the line Ruth and her hijacked baby wind up not just starting the line for the King David, but eventually for Jesus. I have no idea how that could tie in (Ruth or Naomi's future offspring save the Losties OR become the leader of Bennsylvania OR leave the Earth and start a new alien race on ABC's next hit show?) but it could happen.

#176. Posted by: KaytieD at April 20, 2007 12:03 AM

Is there any significance to the hula doll? Maybe Desmond wanted the first aid kit in case Penny was hurt in her descent to the island. Do you think the writers think of things like that to throw in just to throw us off track and to make us spend long hours speculating about trivialities? I adore this show, but I have a concern that it will end in being someone's bad dream. My fifth grade teacher warned us (about a zillion years ago) that that was a cheap, overdone contrivance used to end a story when the author didn't know how else to make it come together. Please assure me that's not what they're going to do!!!

#177. Posted by: rhondab57 at April 20, 2007 12:22 AM

I think the producers would face a riot if they pulled a Booby Ewing in the shower to end the series. I have faith that there is some explanation for everything, that we will get some answers the end of this year and smoe next season. And I will boycott ABC if I am wrong!

As for the hula doll, I am sure the writers put it in for a reason. We may find out next week, next season, or never.

PS I am totally stoked for next week! Wednesday can't come fast enough!

#178. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 12:28 AM

@Mac: You rock, brutha! Thanks much for the numbering system. Definitely a big help in finding which posts to respond to (oops, ended the sentence w/a preposition...)

@desertrat & Clementine: Here's another shout-out from an Outlander fan. What *is* it about Scottish guys that makes them so sexy? ; >

@weepict: Agreed on the lack of award-winning wines from Scotland, & that it would have been more realistic & interesting to have the monks be making MacCutchon's scotch (single malt to be sure). However, that would have wiped out the whole Moriah plotline.

So if we're putting Des's past life in chronological order, it would appear to go:

1) Meets & dates Ruth (a six-year period)
2) Has his vision (a first occurrence of "Desmonition"? love that term!), dumps Ruth, & heads off to the monastery
3) Is a novice for an undermined period (a year? does anyone know how long someone is in their novitiate? I didn't find anything in a quick Google search)
4) Falls off the wagon after visiting Ruth; meets Penelope & starts dating her right away
5) Meets Penelope's dad (I thought I remembered that Des & Penny had been dating for about two years by that point)
6) Gets totally blown off by Mr. Widmore; meets the Oracle; blows off Penny; joins the military (for an indeterminate period of time)
7) Spends time in military jail (again, an indeterminate period of time); is dishonorably discharged; makes his way to the U.S.; meets Libby & gets his boat; trains by running stadia stairs & meets Jack in the process
8) Is shipwrecked on the island & spends three years there before he accidentally kills Kelvin & Flight 815 crashes.

How long would all this take? And when did Des fit in his work as a set designer? And when/how did he learn to be an expert deep-sea sailor? Does Scotland have a naval regiment?

Re Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet: How 'bout a love quadrilateral? Has that been used already? As far as Kate & Sawyer going at it like rabbits, you have to figure that if anyone has a supply of condoms, Dharma or otherwise, it's Sawyer, so perhaps he & Kate won't be having a litter anytime soon.

#179. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 20, 2007 12:37 AM

the bad men are watching me.

#180. Posted by: vikesfan at April 20, 2007 2:57 AM

@ FenwayBen: what's the thought on plot points revealed in deleted scenes? Will the writers treat the info (ie Rose's daughter's death) as cannon, or feel free to ignore the conversation?

Maybe they will continue the plotline in a later episode, all maybe drop the "dead daughter" storyline to add more characters in there next flashback, but I can't really see Rose and Bernard having another flashback anytime soon.

#181. Posted by: Sky at April 20, 2007 5:34 AM

Hi everyone, and thank you Mac for the recap!
Take a look at the picture from the flashback; we can clearly see Charlie holding the parachute. So this must mean things were supposed to happen like this-I mean the appearance of "Naomi" instead of Penny!?
http://tinyurl.com/2xt562
see ya ;)

#182. Posted by: the french redneck at April 20, 2007 7:51 AM

Wow! I was late watching the show, but I must say that I completely enjoyed this episode. The red flash in the sky happened and we HEARD Penny's voice in Desomond's flashforward, but we didn't actually see her at all.

I didn't know monks were allowed to drink? Or, is that why he got fired?

#183. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 8:39 AM

So dissapointed in "catch 22". I really was getting to like Desmond & have particularly enjoyed the last 2 Desmond centric episodes, but why oh why did they have him sing a celtic song when he's drunk? C'mon just because he looks like a tramp you dont have to make him "one of them" also I thought they were in ireland after hearing Ruths terrible accent. Get a grip!

#184. Posted by: Junior at April 20, 2007 9:19 AM

Probably been said (there are too many posts to read through) - but why would it ever have been Penny?

Why would a gazillionaire heiress (or is she just a gazillionaire?) ever risk her life to fly a helicopter (or even fly IN a helicopter) to some remote location who-knows-where, that up until recently didn't exist on any map or radar scan thingy?

I suspect Desmond is supposed to believe that he changed it somehow and that Penny should have been there. His next flash that involves charlie's death... I bet good old Brother Des lets Charlie bite it for sure.

#185. Posted by: Sam at April 20, 2007 9:29 AM

Someone commented "Why haven't the Losties interrogated Juliet yet?" or something to that effect:

Hello? Have you been watching the show? The number one thing the Losties have in common - no one asks any questions. This is the most self-centred group of people ever assembled. Even Locke, all of his goodness is only to further his agenda and how quickly he turned on Kate and the rest.

No, these are not the sort of people who question "What's the smoke monster? Where does that cable lead OFF the island? Why don't we storm Otherville and live there now that it's abandoned?" No, these folks would rather stare intently at their navels (or in Desmond's case, his future navel) than actually get to the bottom of the mystery.

It's like a microcosm of America in more ways than just a comment on politics or religion - Americans project a world image of intent navel gazers who rarely notice or care about anyone else. (Notice I say "project a world image" - most Americans are good people - too bad you can't get an image makeover - or even care to have one.)

It's only the outsiders, like Hurley (fat) or Jin (foreign) or Sayid (perceived enemy) who take notice of things and try and figure things out.

There should be a Canadian on the show. (Not just Ethan.) But I bet that character would have been killed early (like Ethan.)

Okay, I'm done ranting now.

;)

#186. Posted by: Sam at April 20, 2007 9:39 AM

Yes, I must admit that I don’t really buy into what Desmond’s character is starting to reveal. A three-year (longer if you count the time in prison, etc.) obsession with a woman is unnatural, especially if you’ve been apart all that time. Also, his obsession with obtaining his “honor” reveals a low self-esteem.

Hurley, on the other hand, is really starting to intrigue me with his witty humor. “This is future stuff” ha! That was the best. He takes the supernatural phenomenon and portrays it in a realistic light. The campfire scene was awesome. Come on though, who would go “camping” in the woods with Others loose and the smoke monster – not to mention the polar bears. The rope was some sort of beacon for the sub, and it could very well have caused the helicopter crash.

#187. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 9:45 AM

@rhondab57: The dream sequence is my fear as well. There would be riots in the street if the final three minutes of LOST has Bob Newhart waking up, rolling over, and telling his wife he just had the wildest dream. I agree, it would be nice to get some more answers, but that does not seem to be ABC's way right now. Time for a nice breakfast of CrispySeaplanes....

#188. Posted by: onelostdude at April 20, 2007 9:48 AM

@ meg/#187: Didn't you see Castaway? I mean come on...that was like 7 years or something. Love can do strange things to a man. And why not hold on to the thought of someone you love. I'd think that'd keep you from focusing on the conditions/situation which would lead closer to insanity. Maybe Naomi (which is i.moan backwards, nice!) is Penny's fraternal sister.

#189. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2007 10:50 AM

@Red...Neck...Man

Maybe I just haven't come across that kind of man yet...:) Maybe being in jail and isolated on an island would fuel the obsession thing, but look at the flip slide. Why the heck would some wealthy beautiful girl continue to pine for him? Okay, maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, or too much of a realist.

#190. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 11:00 AM

Why did Hurley assume there were multiple survivors to find, and when Charlie called him on it, his excuse was that Desmond said "Someone was coming" ummm, that doesn't specify either a single or plural. Peculiar.
Also when Hurley checks the phone, it shuts off and he announces that it's dead. It would have been pretty easy for him to just have hit the power button and pretended that it was dead. No one expects Hugo to be anything but honest, but the conspiracy freak in me is starting to wonder.

#191. Posted by: The Cobra at April 20, 2007 11:03 AM

I think that SOMEONE in the Losties camp is not who they claim to be. No major supporting documents on this, just a "hunch" or, better yet, womean's intuition.

So, who is most likely to be the fraud/liar/faker/secretOther/Dharmaite? Jack? Hurley? Charlie? Des?

Just a thought....off for more coffee.

#192. Posted by: GatorGal at April 20, 2007 11:03 AM

@ ransomjack:

Good question! Could Naomi be:

(1) related to Eko somehow?

(2) maybe a friend/relative of Michael's? Maybe he did get to safety and has been working with Penny to find the Losties? Could be a strong resuce team: Michael's knowledge of the island and the people paired with Penny's unlimited funds and desire to find her true love. If so, that would explain why she "knows" Des -- has been told details about him, studied pictures, etc.

hmmmm.

#193. Posted by: GatorGal at April 20, 2007 11:10 AM

Sorry for the long post but I've been reading (and thinking) for a while now.

Mac, great recap as always.

I'm relatively new to the blog (been reading for about a month), but I'm taking the time to read the first 2 season's Key Points, lots of great stuff (and writing by Mac) that we may have forgotten.

Reading all the reviews and comments has brought me to one realization: maybe we're all overthinking a little bit.

What I mean by this is that it's clear that the writers are "inspired" by alought, sorry ALOUGHT of religious and litterary themes (for example if you look at Catch-22's plot line (the book) it in itself could be the basis for the whole show (or at least Des' storyline), but is it reasonable to believe that one of these themes (religion, science, litterature...) would be the SOLE answer to this show...I don't think so Tim...

What I believe make's this show so great is that we don't know, we can't guess, they keep us thinking. I know that these same elements are what have frustrated some viewers but for me, it's what makes this show so different.

Keeping it just close enough to reality (faith, society, good, bad, man's errors, sickness...) without dwelling to much into the supernatural (a la Heroes for example) is what makes us think that we can possibly make a link between the show and the real world that will permit us to find some answers...but it ain't going to be easy and that's the point.

Ok, enough with the inspirational lecture, here are a few thoughts;

@179: Des was bottling the 1995 vintage of the wine so this could help establish his timeline (BTW the label indicates a limited bottling of 500: 108 cases x 12 = 1296 bottles???)

Also a quick google search revealed quite a few wine producers in Scotland.

@ The different connctions between everybody: I don't believe the "connections" between the different losties and/or others and/or Dharma are really important in a "it'll give us some answers" sort of way. I believe it's simply to help us understand who these peaple are and also to show that in our lives, we interact with alot of people and these people also do with other people and there's a good chance that at one point, one of these "relationships" will go full circle in a "6 degrees of seperation" sort of way.

This doesn't meen that there's a reason for it...it just happens, you react and life goes on.

@Everything going on on this island in general:

To this effect alot of wikipedia serch's got me this:

-The dharmic religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction. In recent years this cyclical vision of time has been embraced by theorists of quantic space-time and systems theory. This view has also not been scientifically verified;

-The theology and philosophy of Dharmic Religions center on the concept of Dharma, a Sanskrit term for "fixed decree, law, duty", especially in a spiritual sense of "natural law, reality". (Hum..natural law...as if you shouldn't have offspring you won't AND you'll pay the price for having tried...)

-Wherever the Universal Truth is manifest; there is Sanatan Dharma—whether it is in a field of religion, art or science, or in the life of a person or community. Wherever the Universal Truth is not recognized, or is scaled down or limited to a particular group, book or person, even if done so in the name of God, there Sanatan Dharma ceases to function, whatever the activity is called. (Doing what you think is a greater good but for the wrong reasons=bad..."We're the good guys" (Ben)...Well are you REALLY now;

-In 5th century BC Greece, Antiphon the Sophist, in a fragment preserved from his chief work On Truth held that: "Time is not a reality (hupostasis), but a concept (noêma) or a measure (metron)." Parmenides went further, maintaining that time, motion, and change were illusions, leading to Zeno's paradoxes (Zeno was a follower of Parmenides).

Ralph Waldo Emerson considers time as presentness, where past and future are but our present projections (of our memory, hope, etc.). For Emerson, time needs a qualitative measurement rather than a quantitative one
(So let's say for the sake of argument that your stranded on an island with no outside references to time and space, would it mean that depending on what you start interpretaing as be so will be so. For example, if I start losing track of time does it actally slow down for me. If I believe I've been on the island 6 months but it's actually been a year, will I have aged half as much (I'm thinking Emilia Earhart being in the book club.... And as for Desmond, could he be projecting what he wants to happen(he needs to believe Charlie will die so he can be a righteous dude and save him...and he needs to know Penny is looking for him)

Sorry again for the extremely long post.

"It's deja vue all over again"

#194. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at April 20, 2007 11:16 AM

post #141

absolutely LOVED it, best post of the blog. :) can you get on as one of the writers of lost? please!!

#195. Posted by: tiffani at April 20, 2007 11:21 AM

Forgot one insprational theory:

The discourse on the Bhagavad Gita begins before the start of the climactic battle at Kurukshetra. It begins with the Pandava prince Arjuna, as he becomes filled with doubt on the battlefield. Realising that his enemies are his own relatives, beloved friends and revered teachers, he turns to his charioteer and guide, Krishna (Bhagavan, or the Lord), for advice.

In summary the main philosophical subject matter of the Bhagavad-gita is the explanation of five basic concepts or truths:[9]

Ishvara (The Supreme Controller)
Jiva (The Soul)
Prakrti (Matter)
Karma (Action)
Kala (Time)

(Starring Jacob and/or Ben and/or Juliet in the role of The Supreme Controller, Locke as The Soul, Hurley as Matter, Sawyer as Action, and the Island as Time)

BTW-With all the beautiful women ending up on the island and the recent "beach" scene in Kate's tent I was inspired by last weeks game:

Just Another Copy Of Baywatch

"Even if I knew Korean it wouldn't make sense"

#196. Posted by: prosecutor67 at April 20, 2007 11:40 AM

Those first time posters always think they know everything! lol

#197. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 11:47 AM

{deleted -- ANTP?}

#198. Posted by: stoam at April 20, 2007 11:52 AM

@ Stoam

Im guessing you never read the reveiw and the 196 post before you.

#199. Posted by: sky at April 20, 2007 11:55 AM

stoam is banned!!

#200. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2007 11:55 AM

stoam...please report to the barracks for your branding!

#201. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2007 11:57 AM

@The Cobra (191) "...Also when Hurley checks the phone, it shuts off and he announces that it's dead. It would have been pretty easy for him to just have hit the power button and pretended that it was dead. No one expects Hugo to be anything but honest, but the conspiracy freak in me is starting to wonder."

[TIC] Did you ever see the movie, "The Game" with Michael Douglas? Maybe Lost is just a rich kid loses all of his friends, gets bored, and gets his own adventure scenerio. Just think about it. Hurley wins the lotto. Bad things start happening to him. His friends realise the danger in being around him and leave him. For a short while his new found riches "buy" him some fun but eventually he becomes bored. He becomes depressed and is institutionalised. His mom realises his predicament and starts the wheels turning. For his birthday, she sets up a plane crash on a deserted island, he becomes the "master", and gets the adventure of a lifetime. Great gift for the man who has everything![/TIC]

Ok, but seriously, I do see your point. Hurley has certainly been a bit more conniving as of late. He's always been my favorite character.

#202. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 20, 2007 11:59 AM

Anyone else get the feeling we are being set up for a big let down in the finale? There are only 4 episodes left and I don't see this show building up to a crescendo. What's next, Marty goes back in the DeLorean to change the future? I also like how the writers keep throwing in PG fluff like Kate's panty flash and the Sawyer-Kate humping scenes. Sin telling a ghost story with a flashlight shining his face? Hurley cruising in the Scooby-Doo van? Ben's magic surprise box? I agree with a previous poster, Mac's reviews are better than watching the whole show.

#203. Posted by: gables79 at April 20, 2007 12:05 PM

Sorry Stoam, I had to delete/edit your post.

#204. Posted by: mac at April 20, 2007 12:12 PM

1st post: I read all posts didn't see this.
LOST is just a Pilot for the NEW Fantasy Island?

#205. Posted by: SamFin at April 20, 2007 12:18 PM

I can understand people thinking that the season has been a bit of a disapointment, even as a diehard fan I have to admit that the first six episodes were a bit 'slow' but since "Enter 77" Lost has gone back to its all time best.

I can't believe there are only 4 eps left til another loooong summer.

#206. Posted by: Sky at April 20, 2007 12:26 PM

@ mac: That was great. You are like Spiderman...with great power comes great responsibility. Such a flawless use of your power of deletion.

I wonder if Dharma has experimented with stoam-cell research?

#207. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2007 12:33 PM

@what did Stoam do that was so bad that he had to be deleted? Now I'm curious.

Have we reached a point where we are persecuted due to our ignorance of details? That thought scares me, because you all are too sharp and detail conscious on here for me, I'm hanging on by a thread..:)

I DIDN'T notice the picture, but I'm going home today to dvr and see it!

#208. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 1:06 PM

@meg: Stoan asked the same question that's been asked (and answered) at least three times: did you notice the picture on the prior's desk?

I deleted it because it didn't add anything to the conversation.

#209. Posted by: mac at April 20, 2007 1:19 PM

@ Prosecutor67.

Emerson fan? Are you a "transparent eyeball" too?

#210. Posted by: Kate's jeans at April 20, 2007 1:28 PM

We're gonna need a bigger helo......
Best comment of the week!

Drive Shaft Reunion cancelled.........
LMAO, Mac!

Bridge Over the River Kwai..........
Who comes up with this stuff?

Mac, your review and everyone's comments afterwards just make my week.

#211. Posted by: P J in Paradise at April 20, 2007 1:29 PM

Thanks mac, I figured that must've been it.

I find it odd that someone could comment without reading your review first. Truthfully, I look forward to it as much as I do the show. Do you write for the House blog as well? I watch that show, but have never read any reviews for it.

#212. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 1:35 PM

Interesting theory... that Desmonitions aren't really premonitions of the future, but things the Desmond needs to do/does to change what the future would have been if he hadn't had the Desmonition.

If he hadn't seen the flashes he did, who would've initiated the 'camping' excursion, and for what purpose would they have been trudging through the jungle? It just doesn't make sense to me that any of that would've/could've happened on it's own if Des hadn't seen it first.

OK, maybe I've confused myself now. I s'pose that theory wouldn't hold up for the lightning strike, as Hottie Scottie couldn't cause that to happen.

My opinion about the deleted scenes- since they were never part of an officially broadcast Lost ep, they are not to be included in the storyline. In other words, the writers could now legitimately say that Rose has 10 daughters, all alive and well!

#213. Posted by: JoePike at April 20, 2007 1:36 PM

@meg: Esteemed Lost Blog regular Cecil Rose writes the "House" blog. I highly suggest you check it out!

#214. Posted by: mac at April 20, 2007 1:40 PM

@Sky

>@ FenwayBen: What's the thought on plot points revealed in deleted scenes? Will the writers treat the info (ie Rose's daughter's death) as cannon, or feel free to ignore the conversation?

I haven't seen it, so I can't directly vouch for this, but at one time when everybody was discussing "Whatever happened to Vincent?" it was reported that a deleted scene on the Season 2 DVD showed Vincent departing in the boat with Michael and Walt.

Then this season, Vincent shows up in the jungle. So I guess we'd better not depend on deleted scenes as gospel.

What I wish we had a definitive statement from the producers on is how much we can depend on information revealed in last summer's "Lost Experience" game, especially about the nature of Dharma.

And, btw, does anybody know if there's going to be another "Lost Experience" this year?

#215. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 20, 2007 1:44 PM

I can answer meg about the HOUSE reviews. They're written by our own CECIL ROSE.
Double click on his name and you'll be taken to his blog.

#216. Posted by: davidrh at April 20, 2007 1:45 PM

Concerning my last post . . .

nevermind.

Someone else got there first.

#217. Posted by: davidrh at April 20, 2007 1:47 PM

Did anyone see the new Buy.com commercial starring one of the LOST cast members? It's Vincent! He get's his butt sniffed by some dude. What a talented actor...so diversified.

#218. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2007 1:50 PM

I highly doubt this whole Des/Chuck Final Destination storyline will be resolved this season. I bet they just don't deal with it anymore right now, as they're about to start focusing on Juliet's devious mission, Sun's preggo-ness, Locke/Coop, and Sawyer/Kate's rumpy-bumpy in these final eps.

ANTP?

Plus there's a Rosenard-centric ep coming up in this mix too. Looking forward to that...though I hope it doesn't turn into a mostly filler ep...

#219. Posted by: JoePike at April 20, 2007 2:06 PM

Hey guys, i was traipsing along on the wikipedia website and it says that series four of Lost will begin in january?! is this true?!

Thats kinda a long, long way a way!

Btw every week i'm totally impressed by your reviews Mac, great stuff, keep it up :D

#220. Posted by: Andie at April 20, 2007 2:08 PM

@Andie: Yeah, a January start is the rumor going around. It's a long lag between season 3 and 4, but it's probably the best option they've got (that six-week thing was ridiculous).

#221. Posted by: mac at April 20, 2007 2:10 PM

Has anyone mentioned that the helicopter appears to have crashed in same manner as the plane- but the explanation for the plane crash was Desmond not pressing the button in the hatch...what caused the helicopter to crash?

#222. Posted by: Kim at April 20, 2007 2:35 PM

@ Cecil Rose

I looked up "The Lost Experience" on Lostpedia and according to a statement producer Carlton Cuse says:

"The details of the Hanso Foundation’s demise…it’s tangential to the show but it’s not unrelated to the show. We sort of felt like the Internet Experience was a way for us to get out mythologies that we would never get to I wain the show. I mean, because this is mythology that doesn’t have an effect on the character’s lives or existence on the island. We created it for purposes of understanding the world of the show but it was something that was always going to be sort of below the water, sort of the iceberg metaphor, and the Internet Experience sort of gave us a chance to reveal it."

And Damon Lidelof has also stated:

we’d consider that stuff canon to the show, As to whether there’s going to be another Lost Experience, there’s been discussions about it and I think it would only happen if we found another story that again, felt like it was worth telling but that we weren’t going to get around to telling it on the mother ship.


Hope that helps.

#223. Posted by: Sky at April 20, 2007 2:55 PM

#194

ALOUGHT?
Please elaborate.

#224. Posted by: Len at April 20, 2007 3:11 PM

Did anyone else read the Lost article in this week's Entertainment Weekly? It states "Lindelof says they wrote the finale mindful that viewers probably won't see Lost again until January 2008-when it would launch a rerun-free season, and perhaps the beginning of the end of the show itself."

The wait till January and show em all at once theory seems to work for 24, but I don't think it did Alias any favors. Clearly the mid-season break didn't work very well, so I am open to it, but the wait will be excruciating.

#225. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 3:31 PM

I guess series four might be the end of lost :(

I really didn't like the six week interval but yet look where we are, a few episodes from the end of the series. its gone really fast.

Bring on series four :D

P.S there only 22 episodes in this series! whats all that about?!

#226. Posted by: Andie at April 20, 2007 3:40 PM

@Andie "there only 22 episodes in this series! whats all that about?!"

About two too short!

#227. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 20, 2007 4:08 PM

@ Andie The producers have always said they want to have a definite end to the series, and end it once the stories have run their course rather than stick around longer churning out filler for a final season or two (X-Files, anyone?). Of course, ABC wants them to do a minimum of 5 seasons for syndication sales and to stay on the air as long as they are getting ratings, so the end of Lost is a constant negotiation. Season 4 may be the end, it may not be. I'm just glad there WILL be a season 4.

#228. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 4:16 PM

It seems like a lot of people are thinking that there are only 4 episodes left this season, but I am reasonably sure that the end trailer on Wednesday night said "4 episodes left UNTIL the season finale". assuming the season finale is a two-hour episode, that would put the season 3 at 24 episodes, not 22.

#229. Posted by: markthefish at April 20, 2007 4:28 PM

@Mac:

First, let me say thank you for blocking/deleting all the "picture" posts after the first, what, 15-20 or so? That is one thing that has REALLY annoyed me about the posts on your blog, or rather, the users writing the posts -- if someone isn't going to take the time to actually read what others have written before them, then their posts should be removed/ignored when it is a topic or item that has been mentioned ad nauseum. I honestly feel that people just read about something somewhere else, and want to be the first person to post about it everywhere, and don't care to find out if it's already been mentioned or not. I've noticed it has been going on with various topics/points from just about every episode ever since I've been reading your blog (for the last two seasons), so I'm glad this time you put an end to it -- I think I speak for almost everybody when I say "Thanks!"

Now, on to my comments:

******************POSSIBLE SPOILERS****

@JoePike (post 129) The episode that airs on 5/16 has a description that states that Charlie's fate will be decided in that episode, so we will find out soon enough. It IS a Charlie-centric episode, so he very well may die (haven't most deaths occured in the character's own flashback episode -- Ana-Lucia, Eko, Shannon, Nikki & Paolo??) I have a feeling Charlie is next... unfortunately for some, but fortunately for me, I've always thought his character is just annoying and hasn't really served much of a purpose on the island, so I'll be happy to see him go. As someone mentioned above, he probably was supposed to die at the hands of Ethan, and the island has been course correcting things ever since. Maybe it will finally get the DriveShaft "Greatest Hits" album it has been searching for... :)

@Diane (post 148): You mentioned some parallels between Lost and The Wizard of Oz, as many others have done previously. Well, the episode airing on 5/9 is called "The Man Behind The Curtain" and will reveal more info about Dharma than we have received to date, as it is a Dharma-centric episode.

*************END SPOILERS************

If it is not appropriate to mention info from upcoming episodes, please edit my post accordingly Mac...

Finally, @Red Neck Man & Meg (posts 187, 189 & 190): I don't find it hard to believe that both Penny and Desmond would still be in love even after so much time has gone by without being together. Desmond had been on his race around the world when he ship-wrecked, and his whole reason for doing that was to prove he was good enough for Penny. When they last saw each other (at the stadium) he said he would return, and she obviously still loved him. She wouldn't give up hope, and hope is all Desmond has had for a long time. So when he comes up missing, she spends three years looking for him with all of her resources instead of just writing him off. That's true love for you...

#230. Posted by: Stocky at April 20, 2007 4:30 PM

According to the EW article, the season fianle will be two hours, airing May 23. Maybe they are counting the first hour of the two as one of those four episodes? By my count that puts the season at 23 episodes...

#231. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 4:32 PM

Sure takes a long time to wade through all these comments a few minutes at a time at work. Its nice that with the better episodes we've been able to have more interesting discussions on the blog (Aside from the few people that kept repeating the same question, but really its easy to skim past those.) Nearly every comment has been insightful and worth reading, so it took me a while to get around to commenting. I was especially interested in all the Biblical connections people have made.

It was nice to see I wasn't forgotten as a couple posters made reference to my brand new cereal!
Red Neck, you're one funny SOB! I look forward to your posts as much as mac's review!

About the helo crash: perhaps there is some sort of force field that surrounds the island cloaking it and its strong enough to bring down smaller aircraft but it took Desmond not pushing the button to bring down something as big as 815. (Or maybe him not pushing the button was really just another LOST coincidence and really had nothing to do with the crash. Its not like it went so far that stuff in the hatch went flying around by itself or that the sky turned purple or anything. Maybe he really did push the button on time to reset it without consequence.

I like the idea of 4,8,15,23,42 being the new posting numbers for everyone to aspire to. That means meg can be forever #1. Don't worry meg, I don't think you have to worry about doing anything to get kicked off the blog.

I enjoyed the game of ping pong. It actually seems like since Jack came back that Sawyer has really made an effort to be more friendly with him (giving him a hug when he returned, joking around while playing a game). It's like he's put aside some of his animosity for Jack despite the rivalry over Kate and differences in opinion when making leadership decisions).

Someone mentioned this leading up to a new Fantasy Island show. Anyone remember the goawful version with Malcolm McDowell as Roarke and Edgar Stiles from 24 as the new Tattoo?

#232. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 20, 2007 4:49 PM

@191 and 192:

I agree with both posts. To me Hurly is the one who is shaping up to be a major character and I think possibly a mole or someother postion within Dharma.

Why you say:
1) He was kidnapped by the others and then sent back to tell the losties what had happened...Did he tell the losties what happened? (I really can't remember is he did or not, but is seems to me that he never made any big deal about it).
2) He recently was involved in changing Sawyer's behavior. Maybe Hurley knows why Sawyer needs to assume a leadership role.
3) He seemed to set-up the entire "camping" trip by easily convincing Jin to go.
4) He became rich before the plane crash by using the numbers.
4) He is Buddha like.
5) Shock value for this seasons finale

Hurley is Jacob!

Be gentle.

#233. Posted by: T-Dog at April 20, 2007 4:51 PM

Question of the week????

Who the heck is Naomi?

What's next after a camping trip?
a fishing trip?
making sandcastles?

#234. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 20, 2007 4:52 PM

@Crispy:

Naomi is revealed to be the name of the woman who parachuted in during this weeks episode.

#235. Posted by: Stocky at April 20, 2007 4:54 PM

******************POSSIBLE SPOILERS*****

For those interested in the number of episodes left, there are five with a total of six hours. They are as follows:

#18 D.O.C. Jin/Sun Centered
#19 The Brig Locke centered
#20 The man behind the curtain Ben
#21 Greatest Hits Charlie
#22 Through the looking glass partI Jack
#23 Through the looking glass partII

#236. Posted by: michael at April 20, 2007 4:59 PM

@ Crispy Seaplanes

I like the idea of sandcastles, that would make a thrilling episode! Maybe someone can bury Hurley up to his neck in the sand! They have beer, roast boar...where are the grass skirts? When is someone going to fashion a surfboard out of some plane/hatch wreckage?

#237. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 5:03 PM

Re: 236

POSSIBLE SPOILERS*********************

Didn't someone say that there was a Rosenard centered story coming up? Was that just specualtion? PLEASE tell me it's not the finale!

END ALL POSSIBLE SPOILERS*************

#238. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 5:06 PM

It was refreshing to have Charlie to challenge what was happening when he said that helicopter pilots do not eject when a copter goes down like a boulder in the ocean. He was the only one in the camping group to grasp what there were experiencing was incorrect.
This gets back to the Grand Illusion theory that the island occupants are trapped in a collective, interactive fantasy where mental images (mind) controls matter.

#239. Posted by: welh at April 20, 2007 5:09 PM

Stocky--whoops, I didn't realize that the question sounded like I didn't know where the name came from. I know its the name of the girl with the parachute. I just thought a fun suggestion for this week's question could be coming up with wild theories about who she is and where she came from. It was just a thought I was tossing out. I appreciate the serious answer though. Some people would have ridiculed it as having been covered many times already.

#240. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 20, 2007 5:09 PM

Its funny but when the idea of Charlie dying first came around, I was all for it. He'd been acting like an annoying jerk for awhile and he'd never been one of my preferred characters. He's been a lot more loveable recently. When Des saw the arrow vision, although I knew it wasn't real, I found myself somewhat grateful, hoping that Charlie wasn't really getting killed.

Fenway Ben--as long as Hurley is in the sand and not wearing the grass skirt (that thought just reminds me of some images from Borat I've been trying to expel from my mind!) Leave the grass skirts to Kate, Claire, Sun and Juliet--maybe even Naomi (withholding judgement until we get a better view without a bulky flight suit). Rousseau is definitely not invited to the luau! (Too bad Nikki is dead!)

#241. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 20, 2007 5:17 PM

After seeing the remaining names of the episodes

behind the curtain....wizard of oz
through the looking glass prt1 an 2.........alice in wonderland

im starting to get a feeling of dread thinking we are heading towards a finale of fantasy and someones dreams......then again LOST is a fantasy i guess we all just want it to be more real than it is

#242. Posted by: abigerbang at April 20, 2007 5:29 PM

So, someone mentioned above that Charlie probbly should have died at the hands of Ethan, well I think he should have died in the plane crash.

I remember him on the plane tryng to get into a toilet but it was locked (maybe Bernard was on it) he the ran past Jack, Rose, Boone and Shannon and into the toilet to have his fix, when turbulence hit he sat on the nearest seat (Which wasn't his original one)

Since then Charlie has nearly died in the following ways

* In Pilot part 1 when the turbine exlodes a peice of debris narrowly misses him

* Ethan stringing him up for dead, and probably did die, but Jack resucitated him.

* In numbers when he nearly fell from the collapsed rope bridge, and was shot at by Rousseau

* He got caught in the hatch implosion and avoided being blown up by dynamite.

And of cause the events that Desmond has also saved him from.

Just though I'd put it out there.

#243. Posted by: Sky at April 20, 2007 5:30 PM

@Sky

Thanks for the details re Lost Experience. Somehow I don't think they're quite as irrelevant as they make out. I mean the LE definitely establishes Dharma as evil - committing what amounts to genocide and justifying it as justified by necessity. So if the Others are opposing Dharma, then it makes me view them in a more favorable light. Plus it establihes Dharma/Hanso as a viable organization out in the world, whereas on the island it seems to have abandoned (or been driven out of) all its facilities.

#244. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 20, 2007 5:39 PM

@Crispy Seaplanes - I was glad you asked that question, and doubly glad when it was answered. I had no idea who Naomi was. I think that's a great question to ponder who she is and how she fits into it all. My bet is Rose's daughter. Or, maybe Henry Gale's daughter.

#245. Posted by: meg at April 20, 2007 5:43 PM

Great review thanks Mac!

Definatly think the chix was flighing a small aircraft not a helo her outfit was totaly Top Gun. Could it be that the island is surrounded by another fence that is in the water like the one around the lost camp and that one is to keep Smokie on the island.

I agree with everyone about Hurlys role, I mean he could have be sot out by darmha to be an investor in there massive operation. They have to get funding from somewhere. Either the US government is paying them to not release there cure for Cancer or they seek out people like Hurly who dont want there money anymore. The money is ruining there lives so Darmha tells them that they can make a different with there investment. Just a rambling thought.

What happen to Ruso is she going to be in any of the remaining eps this season?

@Red Neck Man you are so funny had me craking up mutiple times with your post.

#246. Posted by: Dakota at April 20, 2007 5:52 PM

I hope Russeau shows up again, now that she knows about Alex, I doubt she'd content herself to just hiding out in the jungle.

**** ALLUSION TO SPOILER ALERT! ********


Speaking of recurring characters if you like SPOILERS, check out the imdb page for the cast list of next week's episode...

#247. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 20, 2007 5:57 PM

Oh and something else i noticed from the Desmonition in the sceen where Charlie is holding the Shoot, He is in a different shirt then he is wearing when it actual happens. Maybe Des did change the future Brotha.

#248. Posted by: Dakota at April 20, 2007 5:59 PM

I thought it was a 12 week break the series took this year.

#249. Posted by: Zeppo at April 20, 2007 6:05 PM

Thoughts on Desmond's flash and decision to indeed save Charlie (bear with me):

This one was different in a couple of ways. First of all, Desmond tried to fulfill the vision instead of changing it. Second, Claire was not involved.

So maybe the writers realized Charlie dying all the time related to Claire was an unintentional red herring and fixed that idea with this episode.

And maybe the counterpart of Desmond's action is the key to Charlie's fate: that rather than avoiding death, Charlie is actually going to choose death - as a sacrifice. Desmond said Charlie would have died *trying* to save Claire, not actually *in saving* Claire. Maybe Desmond has a vision of Charlie dying for the greater good, *tells* Charlie, and Charlie chooses to go along.

Because - what could swing the balance against Ben's mastermind scheming? Maybe Jack's long con, but I'm thinking it's Desmond's clairvoyance, and Charlie's heroinism. Darnit - heroism. Which would also fit with character resolution preceding / precipitating character death on the show.

Sorry to flit back and forth between island world and meta-thematic points. Any thoughts?

#250. Posted by: LockeBox at April 20, 2007 6:46 PM

Seems to me that the writers may be setting up a Locke Vs. Desmond encounter.

Both Locke & Desmond have synergy with the Island. Locke's had his connection since Day 1 - Desmond's premonitions since the failsafe activated.

Now, where will the loyalties of the Losties, Others and Undergroundies (a rumor..) lay?

#251. Posted by: WendyE at April 20, 2007 7:43 PM

@ Crispy Seaplanes: Thanks for the kind words brotha. Ditto seems appropriate, so DITTO.

The only reason I've had such vigor and wittyness (arg, I know, not a word but if fits) is my new routine. Having a nutritious breakfast every day. It's new, but not what you're thinking!

With all the new yummy-oatmeal-talk going around the island, I did some research. I found something. It's been on the test market for a while but it's about to make it's debut. The all new 'OatPlanes Brand Ready-Crispy-Packs'. I pop one in the microwave, check my voicemail w/ my newly-aquired/charged satellite phone, then take heaping gulps with the SAME spoon Kate used (smiley!). It crunches like a tasty Dharma fish biscuit, and contains 108% of my daily intake of midiclorians. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

#252. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2007 1:06 AM

@ Dakota/#246: Thank YOU for the kind words. You are good...therefore you are on MY List.

Speaking of Lists (regulars, get ready to smile)......{next post I hope}.......................

#253. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2007 1:24 AM

@ mac: Lists are rampant in LOST (lame line). So I suggest, on behalf of the regulars ('Regulators....Mount-Up'), that you create an *All-Star mac's-blog-posters Team* (I relinquish all rights to this name..feel free to re-name/work at yo' pleasure).

Ya, 9 positions (baseball of course)...who hits lead-off?, who hits clean-up?, who is the DH? Could be interesting and fun for the posters. Also would motivate positive and thoughtful postings to impress tha man....mac.

#254. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2007 1:31 AM

@ LockeBox/#250: Holy gut-buster Batman! Sooooooooo serious...then busts out w/ heroinism.

Now for a serious note. Am I the only Friday-Night-Drunk that's posting around 1:30-2:00am? I'm gonna take 2 Tylenol PMs and try to conjure up a couple Desmonitions!!! I love it!!!!

#255. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2007 1:43 AM

Nice that they put the allusion to Bernard in the episode. Surely in response to all the internet questions as to whether he and Rose are still around.

Something about that submarine....

I'm just not sure why they drugged Juliet and tied her up on the sub. On one hand it makes sense so the producers didn't have to show any 'sub travel' scenes, but when I combine it with Locke's 'non' blow up of the sub it gives me a funny feeling. Does anyone else think that there is something fishy about it? And with the arrival of the 'helicopter' last night, does anyone feel that 'civilisation' is a lot closer to the island than we think?

#256. Posted by: sjm at April 21, 2007 2:51 AM

Re: #247. Posted by: FenwayBen

************Potential Spoiler************
Thanks for the juicy insight about IMDB...I not only looked at next week's episode, I also looked at the remaining episodes and I found it interesting at the characters who were listed....and who werent listed, for that matter. Check out the cast for Through the Looking Glass...
:)

*************END****************

#257. Posted by: Keluha at April 21, 2007 8:11 AM

Has anyone noticed the constant reference to people in the Bible's Old Testament? Aaron, Moses, Jacob, Isaiah, and now Ruth & Noemi....not to mention Eko's "Jesus stick" had mostly OT verses...

It made me go "Hmmm!!"

#258. Posted by: ice at April 21, 2007 8:28 AM

@Red...Neck...Man: I'll certainly take the all-star lineup under advisement ;)

#259. Posted by: mac at April 21, 2007 8:28 AM

@meg #186/190

"Yes, I must admit that I don’t really buy into what Desmond’s character is starting to reveal. A three-year (longer if you count the time in prison, etc.) obsession with a woman is unnatural, especially if you’ve been apart all that time"

"Maybe I just haven't come across that kind of man yet...:) Maybe being in jail and isolated on an island would fuel the obsession thing, but look at the flip slide. Why the heck would some wealthy beautiful girl continue to pine for him? Okay, maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, or too much of a realist."

meg, hang in there. True love does exist - have faith. Someday your prince will come... and get stranded on an island for three years... and risk the lives of his friends because he thinks you are jumping out of a helicopter. Just don't disappoint him and turn into someone else named Naomi.

@Red...Neck...Man/#189 Thanks to you, I will now never forget how to spell Naomi!

@mac GRAA - the numbers rock!

#260. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 21, 2007 8:40 AM

@Sky,

"So, someone mentioned above that Charlie probbly should have died at the hands of Ethan, well I think he should have died in the plane crash."

One could extrapolate that all of the survivors should have died in the crash. SO...if the universe does have a way of course correcting...seems to me that all of our Losties necks are on the chopping block...at least all of the ones who were on Oceanic 815 and not drunk Scottish monks...

#261. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 21, 2007 10:41 AM

Of course, the REAL reason why Desmond keeps saving Charlie is because he's really Jesus. ;)

I'm actually not kidding, LOL, the actor who plays Desmond also plays Jesus in a movie called "The book of John" or the "Gospel of John", not sure which one. My pastor showed a clip from it a couple of weeks ago, and I almost busted out laughing and said, "That's Desmond!"

And of course, the real reason why Charlie's fate hangs in the balance is because our beloved hobbit was probably in contract negotiations for the duration of the writing, and they simply didn't know if they could keep him or not, LOL!

Thanks so much for the blog. I try not to watch TV, but when I found out I could watch Lost for free on the ABC website, I was hooked---------UNTIL I found your blog! Thanks for freeing me from my deadly addiction. ;)

Dotty

#262. Posted by: Dotty at April 21, 2007 11:04 AM

Just found the other episodes "Naomi" (The chic in the parachute) has been on, according to IMDB.com

- Through the Looking Glass (2007) TV Episode .... Naomi
- Greatest Hits (2007) TV Episode .... Naomi
- The Man Behind the Curtain (2007) TV Episode .... Naomi
- The Brig (2007) TV Episode .... Naomi
- D.O.C. (2007) TV Episode .... Naomi
(1 more)

#263. Posted by: Dotty at April 21, 2007 11:41 AM

Coupla things...

There have been a number of comments along the lines of "Why don't the Lostaways go live in Otherville/Losteria Lane/Bensylvania (take your pick of the names)?" I actually think there are a few good reasons that might be going through the Lostaways' minds:

1) They're close to a major food source on the beach (fish/seafood). Even if there is a food stash in Otherville, the Lostaways don't know whether the Others booby-trapped it in some way before they bugged out.

2) Smokey hasn't shown up on the beach, but he could be anywhere in the jungle, & who's to say that that sonic fence will be working when he/she/it comes knocking?

3) The Others lived in their village for a long long time & are intimately familiar w/all its ins & outs...like possible tunnels underneath w/entrances into the homes, for example. Sure, hot showers would be awesome, but I know I'd be pretty leery of going to live somewhere that might feature someone popping up under my bed (or bathtub mat or what have you) to kidnap/gas/experiment on me.

Thoughts on Des's Desmonition of Penny being the one arriving: Although I haven't rewatched the episode, I don't think I remember seeing Penny in the Desmonition...& there's always a possibility that not everything in a Desmonition is coming from an outside source. Some of it could be colored by Des's own wishes, & having Penny w/him sure appears to be something he wishes for very much. (Maybe he's jealous of the Jack-Juliet, Kate-Sawyer, & Charlie-Claire pairings-up.) In any case, the idea that Penny is directing search operations from a large ship somewhere nearby seems very sensible.

If Naomi turns out to be either Rose's or Henry Gale's daughter, I'd be disappointed...that seems to be stretching connections to the breaking point. It seems more straightforward & sensible (that must be my word for the day) to have Naomi be part of the Portuguese monitoring team that we got a glimpse of at the end of Season 2.

If Charlie does bite the dust, I'll be disappointed.

#264. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 21, 2007 1:16 PM

great site. don't really have time to read 264 comments so i hope this hasn't already been talked about yet.

- is naomi (the parachute chick)an Other? it would make for a better twist then if she'd only been sent by Penny. The Others have been watching Desmond for 3 years now and probably have hime pegged by now.

- Des doesn't have "the box" to see how all the puzzle pieces fit together. don't know if it's actually Ben's box, but still it's a box reference.

- Des's ex-girlfriend is named Ruth & apparently the chick who fell from the sky is named Naomi. In the bible Ruth tells Naomi that she'll go whereever Naomi goes, so is Ruth gonna show up on the island - dead OR alive? The show, this episode in particuar, has a LOT of bible references.

- Kind of a crazy idea but Des said that he's been there for 3 years & so has Julliette. The island is apparently invisible to the outside world. Do you think that there's like a "bubble" protecting the island from being found & to keep people out/in & they have to turn the "bubble" off so new Others (like Jull) can come which makes it possible for different people (like Des & 815ers & Danielle) to crash there.

#265. Posted by: Courtney at April 21, 2007 2:03 PM

Is her real name Naomi, or it that the actress's name? Because I don't remember learning her name.

#266. Posted by: meg at April 21, 2007 2:59 PM

@ Meg

It as been her confirmed name from an ABC press release.

#267. Posted by: sky at April 21, 2007 3:04 PM

@ Meg

It has been her confirmed name from an ABC press release.

#268. Posted by: sky at April 21, 2007 3:04 PM

Re: 257

************ SPOILERS *****************
***Stop now or don't blame me! ********

Well, keep in mind that IMDB is in no way an authority, they don't always have full cast details on shows that have aired in the past, let alone ones airing in the future. But I am VERY intrigued by this next episode, given that we all assumed it would be a Jin/Sun based episode (find out who Sun's baby daddy is! Will she be a Sabine or a Claire when all is said and done?), it's normal to see Mr. Paik and and his entourage back, Mr. Kwon returning, a Korean actress playing an "older lady", but what about the non-asian the list? I assuming he is going to be in the back story not the present, but how the heck does he fit in?!? I am also assuming the title "D.O.C." means Dead on Conception (a play on D.O.A. Dead on Arrival). That does not sound good for Sun at all!


**********END SPOILER INFO************

As an aside, has anyone ever explained why Jin and Sun's names are not in line with Korean tradition? Normally (read almost always), Koreans have a two-syllable individual name, not one, and the wife keeps her family's name instead of changing it at marriage as westerners do. Not at all relevant to any mystery on the show, it's just been bothering me.

#269. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 21, 2007 9:29 PM

Charlie seems to be caught in a "Final Destination" type of loop. The Grim Reaper will get you no matter what...

#270. Posted by: Christina at April 21, 2007 10:34 PM

@269/FenwayBen

I assumed D.O.C was Date Of Conception - like DOB is Date of Birth.

But I agree... your's is far more chilling ;-)

#271. Posted by: Danny at April 22, 2007 5:32 AM

@Christrina/270

Let's hope that Charlie doesn't die by hanging himself in the bathtub, in a kitchen explosion or in a train or bus accident while playing "Rocky Mountain High" on his guitar.

@Danny/271

When in doubt, always go with chilling!

#272. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 22, 2007 7:38 AM

Hi guys! Long, long time reader, first time poster. I finally have something to post that no one's brought up yet. And yes, I have read ALL the posts, geek that I am.

Actually, it's a request. Can anyone get a translation of Jin's ghost story? I think it would be hilarious to understand his story and maybe it would provide a tiny bit of insight into his character.

Also, on Lostpedia there is a transcript of the "whispers." Very interesting! It seems like the "whisperers" are hiding and watching the Losties. In one line someone says something like "put up the scope." SCOPE?!!? They also seem kind of childish judging from the things they say and also very afraid of the Losties seeing them.

Anyway, thanks for being my online Lost community. I'm living in the South of France, and while we have Lost fans here, they are one year behind the States.

One more thing, did anyone else start singing,

"Comet, it makes your teeth turn green,
Comet, it tastes like gas-o-line,
Comet, it makes you vomit
So buy some Comet and vomit today..."

while our camping guys were whistling the Bridge over the River Kwai song? So intrenched in our American/commercial culture, it was my French roommate who told me it was a movie song, not a jingle. Ooh la la!

#273. Posted by: Randi at April 22, 2007 8:18 AM

Also, on Lostpedia there is a transcript of the "whispers." Very interesting! It seems like the "whisperers" are hiding and watching the Losties. In one line someone says something like "put up the scope." SCOPE?!!? They also seem kind of childish judging from the things they say and also very afraid of the Losties seeing them.
Posted by: Randi

Good grief! That sounds like the "lost
children" in Peter Pan's Never-never-land! A subterranean world on the island . . would that explain the ill-dressed teddy-bear dragging group Jin and Eko saw? Maybe there IS a third group of "hostiles" . . .

#274. Posted by: davidrh at April 22, 2007 8:57 AM

Did anyone else notice the literal FLASH of light on Hurley's face that happened just as Desmond's flash began to play out in real time?

I wonder if this flash has been seen as Desmond's other flashes become reality?

#275. Posted by: Reba at April 22, 2007 10:57 AM

@Red...Neck...Man -
Ya, 9 positions (baseball of course)...who hits lead-off?, who hits clean-up?, who is the DH? Could be interesting and fun for the posters. Also would motivate positive and thoughtful postings to impress tha man....mac.

not to rain on your parade, but it could piss a few people off, too.

Seems we should be sticking to "Lost," no? Rather than the continuous patting ourselves on the back.

#276. Posted by: smitty at April 22, 2007 3:06 PM

@273/Randi I don't have the episode still on my DVR, but Jin was basically telling the classic man with the missing hand story. When the episode re-airs next week, I'll jot down what he's actually saying and give as good of a translation as I can if someone hasn't done it yet by then.

#277. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 22, 2007 3:14 PM

@273/Randi

Okay, so it's early SUnday morning here and I have a bit of a head form last night, so I totally spaced that you can rewatch for free on ABC.com. So, after a little bit of rewatching, I have come up with this (but I am nto a native Korean speaker, so no guarantees!)

Jin (in a female voice): Thank the Lord, we should go before the man with the missing hand comes.

Jin (in a male voice): However, don't be anxious about that man at all, because the man with the missing hand, he's already in the room!

#278. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 22, 2007 3:52 PM

@ 224

Sorry for the mistake, being french-canadien and all I sometimes make some weird mistakes. Must of been off that day.

I ment "alot".

Thanks for noticing.

"oh crap!"

#279. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at April 22, 2007 7:53 PM

@ smitty/#276: You're starting to piss ME off. You're definitely on the bench to start the season.

#280. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 22, 2007 8:31 PM

@ the french redneck re: #182 – Is that picture from Des’ Desmonition at the beginning or from later in the episode when it all plays out? If it is from the Desmonition then that’s probably a big clue that maybe ties into what JoePike is saying in #213 (numbering system rocks mac! Kudos!), this is the 1st time Des has actually worked to make something happen instead of trying to prevent something. There would have been no ‘camping’ trip unless Desmond initiated it – so he’s having flash-forward to events that would never occur UNLESS he experienced a flash forward?!?! He’s having flashbacks to a future that didn’t happen… or something.

I haven’t had my weekly 2nd viewing of the episode yet so forgive me if my Desmonition sequencing is off, but if I recall correctly it starts in the middle with Charlie getting killed then moves forward to getting Naomi out of the tree (w/Charlie present?!?) and then moves backward to the beach, cable, light in the sky. OR is it Charlie’s killed, backward to the beach then forward to Naomi? There’s got to be some significance to the order in which Des experiences this that points to him taking charge and Charlie surviving. Or maybe I’ve been hanging out with Ol’Smokey more than Red…Neck… Man. Anyone else see any significance?

@ Sky re: #243 – I think it was Paulo keeping the latrine busy on Charlie :)

#281. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at April 22, 2007 8:37 PM

@Smitty and RNM -- Easy fellas. Stay on target ... STAY on target ...

#282. Posted by: mac at April 22, 2007 8:39 PM

"Jin (in a female voice): Thank the Lord, we should go before the man with the missing hand comes.

Jin (in a male voice): However, don't be anxious about that man at all, because the man with the missing hand, he's already in the room!

→ 278. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 22, 2007 03:52 PM"

==== Uh, Marvin Candle? ====

#283. Posted by: lost and back again at April 22, 2007 10:39 PM

Suggestions for this weeks LOST question are welcome. What do ya'll want? Let me know.

#284. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 23, 2007 10:20 AM

Suggestions for the Lost question of the week:

- Well the obvious 'Who will Naomi turn out to be connected/related to?' comes to mind first.

- How will the Jack/Claire sibling-hood be revealed?


Naaaaaaaah, Hurley is not a Dharma/Other mole. Based on his pre-island history and what we've been shown on the island it would be a REAL stretch (and a big disappointment) to make him a mole.

#285. Posted by: JoePike at April 23, 2007 10:55 AM

Reply to #284

Question of the week!

What is the different in "Camping" as in Hurley's asking Jin to go camping and what the losties are doing on the beach right now?

This has been bothering me since Hurley asking Jin and he said yes. I just don't see Jin being that easily convinced to go with them and leave Sun behind. I would like to have Jin explain why he did this. To me this is a 180 departure of the way this character would act. Is this a pattern of people (Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Sayid and others) doing thing they would not normal do? Is the island changing the why they thing and act?

#286. Posted by: michael at April 23, 2007 11:14 AM

****** (Sort of) SPOILER ALERT *******
Re: #236/238

I was wrong when I said there was a Rosenard-centric ep coming up. The 3/30/07 Lost producer podcast indicated that "Rose and Bernard have a really awesome storyline coming up..."

So it may not be "Rosenard-centric", as far as flashbacks and such go, but my guess is the secondary storyline in one of the eps before the season is over will focus on them.

#287. Posted by: JoePike at April 23, 2007 11:18 AM

I think Jin decided to go with them because he understood the word "camping". It was more of the excitement of finally being able to decipher the meaning of an English word. Charlie and Hugo went because of the future stuff.

Rose and Bernard's awesome story line must have something to do with Naomi.

#288. Posted by: meg at April 23, 2007 11:41 AM

@ RNM - Instead of a question this week, how about an acronym listing. There are a lot of new folks on this site now that many not know WGNABB means "We're gonna need a bigger boat" or I guess now it's WGNABH (We're gonna need a bigger helo.) I know one poster always tells mac GRAA (great review as always) and there are so many others.
JAS (just a suggestion... ha!)
You could start off the definitions and have other "regular posters" define the ones you left off. It shouldn't be an open season for making new acronyms, but like a "users guide" for this blog. Your thoughts? If you want to stick to a conversation question, that's just fine too - perhaps mac will create a new posting entitled "Commonly Used Blog Acronyms" or something like that.

#289. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 23, 2007 11:43 AM

This is my first post, but I have been reading Mac's recaps since the beginning. They are by far the best!! I know I am getting of the track a bit, but has anyone seen the movie "Wild Hogs"? Forgive me if anyone has already discussed this. Towards the end of the movie, Peter Fonda rides up to Ray Liotta. Of course they are the bad boy bikers. Anyway, Fonda looks at Liotta and says "Give it up Jack, give it up". The craziest part was that M.C. Gainey (Tom/Zeke) was standing right next to him when he said it. My daughter and I just looked at each other and said "whoa". Has anyone else seen it?

#290. Posted by: marlisa at April 23, 2007 11:45 AM

MAC - Great Recap ! ! !

Island Mystery # 4 Solved: Why does Des always say "Brotha"? Know we have a definitive answer to a truly perplexing island mystery. Take that naysayers always commenting that the brains behind the show don't have answers for anything. J/K

great ep and great recap.

#291. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at April 23, 2007 12:12 PM

Future Flashes = Des Says

#292. Posted by: J-Rod at April 23, 2007 1:23 PM

Some people have questioned the whereabouts of Rousseau. I am sure that she is trailing the Others, so that she can watch Alex.

SJM made a comment about the island being closer to land than we think. If it is invisible, then it is possible that it is close enough to land that a helicopter could reach it. As far as the suit goes...I don't know. I could be wrong, but as far as I know it is not easy to bail from a helicopter. How many times have you heard of soldiers bailing out of a helicopter. Usually you hear of them going down with it. I'mnot saying that it is impossible though, so don't bite my head off.

#293. Posted by: Batteries Included at April 23, 2007 3:09 PM

Seems like it would be difficult to bail from a helicopter with a parachute without getting sucked up into the rotor and pureed. It was probably some other type of aircraft which from a distance sounded like a helo.

#294. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 23, 2007 4:38 PM

@Smitty and RNM -- Easy fellas. Stay on target ... STAY on target ...

→ 282. Posted by: mac

mac - this is my point precisely. Stay on target and talk, joke, and jest about Lost. We don't need an all-star baseball team with RNM batting lead-off, third and clean-up.

On the bench RNM? I don't even want on the team ...

@bunnylover - Instead of a question this week, how about an acronym listing. There are a lot of new folks on this site now that many not know WGNABB means "We're gonna need a bigger boat" or I guess now it's WGNABH (We're gonna need a bigger helo.) I know one poster always tells mac GRAA (great review as always) and there are so many others. JAS (just a suggestion... ha!)
You could start off the definitions and have other "regular posters" define the ones you left off. It shouldn't be an open season for making new acronyms, but like a "users guide" for this blog. Your thoughts? If you want to stick to a conversation question, that's just fine too - perhaps mac will create a new posting entitled "Commonly Used Blog Acronyms" or something like that.

What a marvelous idea - not only would new readers and posters be aided, but someone not so bright in blog terminology and afraid to ask, like me, would also be helped ;>)

#295. Posted by: Smitty at April 23, 2007 4:53 PM

Hi Smitty /#295 - Thanks for the cudos on the acronym idea. Looks like RNM took up the idea and started a new post!
Thanks Red...Neck...Man. Going over there to post some of the ones I know right now. Yeah! WGNABB (We're gonna need a bigger blog...)

#296. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 23, 2007 5:09 PM

Next Week, in a sudden change of direction and in an attempt to boost ratings for sweeps week, the producers of Lost present "Lost: the Musical"

****** Foilers ******

The first scene opens with Ben and Locke in the jungle. In the background, the Others are setting up Tents-ill Town and singing the Wizard of Oz's, "Oh-ee oh, ohhh oh."

BEN: So John, tell me your secret.

LOCKE: No, you're a bad man.

BEN: So are you, you killed a young man by making fall off of a cliff in an old rickety airplane.

LOCKE: (Looking down) It's true. (Music swells... and Locke sings a ringing rendition of "Bad to the Boone")

On the day I was born (electric guitar - Du, Du, Du, Du, Du)...

Meanwhile, back at the beach...

The Others have just attempted to kidnap Sun so that they can place her impending offspring in the Dharma orphanage. Sun and Claire are downhearted and join together in a chorus of "It's a hard knocked up life for us..."

Afterward, Sun goes into hiding. Juliet goes along to "provide care."

Meanwhile, John still won't give Ben the answers he wants but does agree to help him capture Desmond so that he can see the future. On their way, they happen upon a second parachute - Penny! Now Ben has his emotional trump card that he needs.

BEN: (to Desmond) Tell me your visions and what they mean and I'll give you your women friend.

DESMOND: So what you're saying is a Penny for my thoughts?

Cut to the Beach...Jin misses Sun and becomes depressed. Charlie, in an attempt to cheer him breaks out into song singing, "Sun will come out tomorrow, Bet your bottom Dharma on tomorrow..."


****** End Foilers ******

That's all I'm going to tell you. If you want to know the rest, you'll have to watch it on Weds (or make the rest up yourself...)

Oh, I will give you this much more though. Hurley gives a rousing cover of the Beatles "Hey, Jude" (Naaaa, na,na ,nanana naaaa, nanana naaaa, Hey, Dude...)

#297. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 23, 2007 5:29 PM

Way to lay off Smitty....way to lay off.

Thanks BunnyLover. I hope everyone enjoys a little side question/discussion to break up the week. If it helps, I had posted that around 1:30pm today I believe (HA!). It should usually be available for all on Sun or Mon following the weeks ep. And I appreciate all suggestions. All for fun.

#298. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 23, 2007 8:00 PM

@ bcre8ve/#297: With your mentioning of "Lost: the Musical", I hope I'm not the only one who started to sing the first few lines of convo b/t Ben & Locke. I did, of course.

#299. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 23, 2007 8:06 PM

#300! Yah! Is this a record? Do I get a prize?

Congrats mac, it just shows that you have a good thing going! Keep up the good work!

#300. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 23, 2007 9:33 PM

An interesting tid-bit that I don't think has been mentioned: Des says that he left Ruth after he "woke up on his back in the street" and was helped up. We've seen him wake up on his back twice previously: once in the jungle after the hatch explosion and once in his flat surrounded by paint after a return to the past. Perhaps, this calling occurred after one of his reboots. The oracle said he wasn't cooperating "this time" implying it has happened before.

#301. Posted by: RCT at April 24, 2007 9:44 AM

@RCT/301 Awesome catch! You may have something there. I wonder if we will be visiting that scene?

@mac We currently can see the number of comments but not views a thread has had. Knowing that traditionally on blogs/forums there are quite a few more viewers than posters - is there any way to show how many views a thread has had? Or at least would you be willing to share this info with us? (assuming that you have access to this info) Once would be fine. Just curious.

#302. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 24, 2007 11:00 AM

@bcre8ve: Without getting into a discourse on Web analytics (I rant about such things on my journalism/tech blog, www.theindependentpublisher.com), it would be a little tricky to display "live" views of the page. But your conclusion is correct: the vast majority of folks who visit the blog stop by to read, but only a small percentage actually post.

However, I can tell you that each Key Points review gets somewhere between 5,000-8,000 unique views each week (additional views accrue over time as well). Compared to other sites, these aren't massive numbers, but I am absolutely amazed/excited/overwhelmed by the attention this little spot gets.

Hope that helps! I'm happy to share more if you're interested. -- mac

#303. Posted by: mac at April 24, 2007 11:13 AM

Hey Mac,
I'd also be interested in stats like that- you know, maybe post a summary late Wed. each week of 'unique views' and other stats you feel like sharing for the last Key Points Review before the new ep airs. It would be cool to see the numbers grow over time and from season to season as word of mouth for your Film Fodder Lost site spreads.

I'd also be curious to see the 'ebb & flow' of the numbers when a weak ep airs vs. a really strong plot-advancing one.

Congrats by the way- that's a crapload of people checking this site out every week. it amazes me though, that the percentage that actually post is so small! I guess the 250-300 posts each week cover pretty much what the lurkers would say anyway...

#304. Posted by: JoePike at April 24, 2007 12:05 PM

@mac/303 "I can tell you that each Key Points review gets somewhere between 5,000-8,000 unique views each week... Compared to other sites, these aren't massive numbers, but I am absolutely amazed/excited/overwhelmed by the attention this little spot gets."

Those are good numbers specially considering:
1) They are measuring unique views
2) This isn't a forum but rather a comments section

Your ratio of viewers to posters seems solid and on the higher end which is a good thing. It shows that viewers are inspired to action.

You have a right to be "amazed/excited/overwhelmed".

#305. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 24, 2007 12:10 PM

Hey mac! I just checked out the indie pub blog and noticed you're a fellow Bostonian! Sorry for geeking out but that was cool. Nothing on topic - sorry everyone - just watch out for the Mooninites!

#306. Posted by: Dr, Bologna at April 24, 2007 1:51 PM

@Dr. Bologna -- Ignignokt and Err will rise again!

#307. Posted by: mac at April 24, 2007 2:13 PM

I can't wait to see what the acronym is for 'Ignignokt and Err'...could be juicy! LOL!

#308. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 24, 2007 2:27 PM

@ bcre8ve / #297

"BEN: (to Desmond) Tell me your visions and what they mean and I'll give you your women friend.

DESMOND: So what you're saying is a Penny for my thoughts?"

Priceless... Totally made me LOL. You are so very, very cre8ve.

#309. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 24, 2007 2:57 PM

Ignignokt and Err proved that Boston is the best city in the country, they coulda gone anywhere, but they chose Beantown!

Of course, I am a little biased...

#310. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 24, 2007 10:51 PM

@FenwayBen/310 "Ignignokt and Err proved that Boston is the best city in the country, they coulda gone anywhere, but they chose Beantown!"

As I recall... they also appeared at other venues but it was Beantown that gave them their most notable welcome.

#311. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 24, 2007 10:55 PM

@bcre8ve/311

Are you trying to muddle the argument with facts?

In my defense, I'm in Hawaii, news from the outside world rarely makes it here intact, so apologies! Guess we should get back to talking about Lost, anyhow...

#312. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 25, 2007 12:32 AM

@FenwayBen/312 (Hawaii? I'm jealous)

Far be it from me to bring facts to a discussion ; )

No, I was simply refering to their marketing blitz this past January that earned them a police and homeland security parade and eventually led to their "contributing" to the coffers of the great city of Boston.

They did not receive such an elaborate welcome in the other nine cities in which they appeared.

But you are correct, we digress. So back to Lost...

I received a suggestion for another scene for "Lost: The Musical:"

Juliet is finishing setting up her tent. Jack watches from a distance.

SAWYER: You've really fallen for her, huh?

JACK: I'm afraid so. (cue Squeeze music...) Tempted by the fruit of an Other...

#313. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 25, 2007 1:09 AM

Sorry I´m late, but did you notice the name of the place on the Wine label (Eddington, Scotland), which doesn´t seem to exist.
Could be another anagram (I love those):
- Ending dot or
- Intend God.
BTW, I just figured out, that Naomi is none other than Des´ grandmother: in German, "Na, Omi" means "Hey, Granny"! One question answered at last ;-)


#314. Posted by: John K at April 25, 2007 9:35 AM

@Randi

>...while our camping guys were whistling the Bridge over the River Kwai song? So intrenched in our American/commercial culture, it was my French roommate who told me it was a movie song, not a jingle. Ooh la la!

The song they were whistling is "Col. Bogey's March" a song that Americans now almost universally identify with the movie "The Bridge over the River Kwai" wherein the British POW's whistle it while marching. However it actually goes back much further than that. There is a "Bridge over the River Kwai March", expressly composed for the movie and played therein, but it is a different tune.

#315. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 25, 2007 11:32 AM

@293. Batteries Included

>... as far as I know it is not easy to bail from a helicopter. How many times have you heard of soldiers bailing out of a helicopter. Usually you hear of them going down with it. I'm not saying that it is impossible though, so don't bite my head off.

@294. Crispy Seaplanes

>Seems like it would be difficult to bail from a helicopter with a parachute without getting sucked up into the rotor and pureed. It was probably some other type of aircraft which from a distance sounded like a helo.


I haven't done it, but my friends that have done so say that bailing out of a helicopter is not difficult. The rotor thusts the air down, so it would drive you away from the rotor, not suck you toward it. My friends say the wierdest thing about diving out of a helicopter is there being no great wind blast hitting you as you bail out, unlike jumping from airplanes, but a sensation that is probably familiar to B.A.S.E. jumpers.

#316. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 25, 2007 11:39 AM

Mac, a technical quetion -- what's the definition of "unique pageview"? Is it based on IP address of the viewing computer? Or user ID? (I'm not sure if that can be detected). So if I return to the blog three times to read the latest comments, is that one or four "unique pageviews"?

#317. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 25, 2007 11:42 AM

@Cecil: Good question. Like all Web metrics, Unique Page View is flawed. Often it's a combo metric that tracks a unique cookie over a specific period of time (the specifics are something that's WAY beyond my mental capacity). Of course, if you delete your cookies, you can be counted again as a "unique" visitor. There's other issues with it (the total amount of time, the IP address, blah, blah, blah). Most Web traffic should be taken as an estimate, so I think it's reasonable to estimate that 5,000 unique views is an average for the reviews.

And to answer your question, as I understand it, you would only be counted once. I think. Maybe.

#318. Posted by: mac at April 25, 2007 11:51 AM

Mac, you're the best!

Posters, you crack me up. I love all of your comments and insights.

Can't wait for tonight; look forward to tomorrow!

#319. Posted by: Krys at April 25, 2007 12:06 PM

It seems quite strange that they heard some sort of helicopter yet it had no lights and there wasn't an explosion or raging ball of fire. It sounded like metal being contorted or something. i feel like i've missed something. all we saw was a splash, right??

just a thought

all might be revealed tonight.

#320. Posted by: Andie at April 25, 2007 12:34 PM

@Andie/320
Here's hoping Naomi wakes up and starts talking tonight, and the producers don't leave her unconcious until the finale or give her amnesia, or when Sayid starts to ask her questions, Desmond doesn't stand up and say "she's under my protection!"

@bcre8ve/313
Before you get too jealous (and there is a lot of upside to living in Hawaii), you can always rememebr I'll be watching tonight's Lost episode 2-5 hours after the mainland does...

#321. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 25, 2007 1:05 PM

After hearing all the chatter about who/what is Jacob I have arrived at this conclusion:

Jacob is a deity, but not in human form (maybe the source for the 4 toed statue as a religious icon).

Ben WAS born on the island, but not in the sense of childbirth. He was born on the island, as in, Born Again.

Ben and the others seem hold Jacob in reverence, as in, (Holy) Father.

Does this make any sense to anyone?

#322. Posted by: Len at April 25, 2007 1:50 PM

Theory: Jacob is the monk who fired Desmond.

#323. Posted by: welh at April 25, 2007 3:07 PM

Ok, guys, I have a theory and I can't wait any longer. This has been bothering me for some time. Remember when Juliet was first being recruited for fertility work with the Others? She was shown a scan (MRI?) of a woman's uterus. She said that it looked like the uterus of a very old woman. But Alpert said the woman wasn't, in fact, very old. I forget all the details, so bear with me here. My theory is that the Others are, maybe, very old. Their lives are extended by the Island so they cannot, any more, reproduce. Maybe their reproductive organs are affected by time passing but their overall health and appearance remains the same--unchanged.

Perhaps there is an "elite" group of Others seeking to reproduce but their reproductive organs are too old.

I think the significance of the scan shown to Juliet is too important to overlook. There is a reason the writers showed us this bit of information. I don't think it was random. Add to that the fact that Juliet is on the Island to solve their fertility problems and it all leaves me thinking there is something rotten in Bensylvania.

#324. Posted by: Randi at April 25, 2007 3:17 PM

Of all the things we need explaining for, I would love to see them finally give us a clue as to what the hell is up w/ the 4-toed statue. And by solving it, I don't mean having Vincent running out of the forest with a giant pinky-toe in his mouth. Did Roger Work-Man have 4 fingers on his hand?

#325. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 25, 2007 4:41 PM

@FenwayBen/321 "Desmond doesn't stand up and say "she's under my protection!"

LOL!

@bcre8ve/313
Before you get too jealous (and there is a lot of upside to living in Hawaii), you can always rememebr I'll be watching tonight's Lost episode 2-5 hours after the mainland does...

2-5 hours of suspense versus 24/7 in paradise? Tough call, not! : )

@Red...Neck...Man/325 "I don't mean having Vincent running out of the forest with a giant pinky-toe in his mouth."

Ha!

Hey, RNM, I was trying to remember your posting name before it was RNM. Can you refresh my memory?

#326. Posted by: bcre8ve at April 25, 2007 5:29 PM

Interesting comment . .

→ 324. Posted by: Randi

where (I'm assuming) she talks about people who never age. Sounds like shades of "Lost Horizons" - an old book and movie about a glorious land high in the Himalayas where nobody grew old . . .

#327. Posted by: davidrh at April 25, 2007 7:47 PM

Hey, RNM, I was trying to remember your posting name before it was RNM. Can you refresh my memory?
→ 326. Posted by: bcre8ve

Hey, I EVEN know the answer to that question . . He was "Mhausen11" . . I always remembered that because it reminded of the Baron Mulhausen(sp?)movies . .

#328. Posted by: davidrh at April 25, 2007 7:57 PM

@Randi/324

I am absolutely sure you're right, there was a lot of info in "Not in Portland" that laid the groundwork for what's to come...the scan you mention, the whole "I wish he'd get hit by a bus" episode (which was totally awesome!)

I am not sure if the woman was really as old as her uterus and just looks young, or if the island prematurly ages uteri (?!?), but I am willing to bet the scan belonged to Sabine...

Maybe it's a Dorian Grey thing, but instead of having a picture in the closet that is aging...

@bcre8ve/326 People on the east coast are watching D.O.C. already, I just got home from work (tear)

#329. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 25, 2007 11:17 PM

Just a last note about this episode.

While the parachutist (Naomi) was still hanging in the tree, Hurley twice referred to her as either she or her well before they took off her helmet and opened up her flight suit to "check out her wound." There really was no way for him to know that that was a woman in that pilot's garb.

Just because Des said it might be his old flame doesn't really explain it for me. Seems curious...

#330. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 26, 2007 8:21 AM

@ransomjackson/330
Desmond was so convincing (reason for the camping trip) that (his) Penny was coming to the rescue, that, yes, I buy it - Hurley's reference to the person in the flight suit containing that gender.

#331. Posted by: JT at April 26, 2007 8:44 AM

@ bcre8ve: used to be Mhausen11..just my e-mail...but once I heard the beautiful call of the redneck (I grew up in Atlanta) I had to take the moniker.

posting for my lost question: RNM = Red...Neck...Man!

#332. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 26, 2007 10:59 AM

@ bcre8ve #313
"SAWYER: You've really fallen for her, huh?

JACK: I'm afraid so. (cue Squeeze music...) Tempted by the fruit of an Other..."

DARN YOU bcre8ve - now I can't get that stupid song out of my head. I hate that when that happens! (That was brilliant by-the-way.)

must not sing... must not sing... find another tune... anything but Squeeze!!!!

#333. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 1, 2007 4:35 PM

3-17 - Catch-22

The boys go camping
A stranger drops from the sky
Is rescue coming?

#334. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 24, 2008 12:45 AM

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