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Lost Reviews and News

Key Points from "The Man Behind the Curtain"

Season 3, Episode 20
Episode Air Date: 05/09/07

Point 1

Remember that whole "Lost" isn't sci-fi thing?

Forget that. When a significant character is revealed to be a sentient cigarette burn with a flashlight phobia, you're smack dab in the world of sci-fi.

This episode was a biggie and we've got a lot to cover, so, in the name of efficiency, let's get the revelations out of the way up front. (Note: I'm working under the assumption that the information presented in "The Man Behind the Curtain" is true, but there's always the chance the producers are pulling our collective legs).

Revelation 1: Dharma and the Hostiles are two different groups. The Hostiles pre-date Dharma, but their origin and their cause are unknown. Richard Alpert is (we think) a Hostile. I'm assuming the Hostiles are also responsible for the four-toed statue seen in "Live Together, Die Alone."

Revelation 2: Ben was not born on the island. His father, Roger, was recruited by Dharma and brought to the island. A young Ben tagged along. Like all proper "Lost" characters, Ben has major daddy issues (more on this in Key Point 2).

Revelation 3: Ben turned on his Dharma comrades and played a key role in the Hostile's "purge." Soon after the purge, Ben assumed a leadership position and he and his Hostile buddies took over Dharmaville and renamed it Bennsylvania.

Revelation 4: Like Locke, Ben seems to have some sort of connection to the island -- at least he did. When he was a boy, his dead mother appeared to him. This revelation makes Richard "Hostile Eyeliner" Alpert very excited. It also suggests that Jack has a similar island connection because he saw dead Dr. Daddy in season one.

Revelation 5: We meet Jacob ... sorta. Who he/it is, what he/it does, why he/it is invisible (yes, invisible), remains to be seen.

On to the review!

The episode picks up where "The Brig" left off: Locke tracks the Others to their new campsite and, upon arriving, drops Cooper's corpse at Ben's feet. Ben's bug eyes struggle to remain in their sockets -- Locke's reappearance and Cooper's rotting body are both unexpected. More disturbing, Ben now has to live up to his end the "answer" bargain he made with Locke: Cooper's body = island revelations.

Locke is gleeful, which makes sense because his evil daddy is decomposing and he's got Ben in his Obi-Locke crosshairs. At first, Ben tries to use the old "I'm not the leader of this island" excuse, but Locke has none of it. He demands to see this so-called leader, and when Ben suddenly gets cold feet at the prospect of visiting Jacob, Locke calls him a liar and says he'll simply find someone else to take him to see the wizard.

And that's when Ben starts to shake. He tells Locke that Jacob only speaks to him and, in a convenient twist, Ben is the only one who knows where to find him.

Locke is incredulous (and rightfully so): Basically, Ben's direct superior is a guy only he can find and who only communicates with Ben. And, just to make this oh-so-unbelievable, none of the Others have ever seen Jacob.

"I think there is no Jacob," Locke spits. " I think your people are idiots if they believe you take orders from someone else. You are the man behind the curtain, the Wizard of Oz, and you're a liar."

Alas, this excellent Obi-Locke moment is soon interrupted by the surprise entrance of Mikhail. The former Sonic Death Fence victim runs into camp and tells Ben that a woman recently parachuted onto the island and she's now being cared for by the castaways. Ben's reaction (bug-eyed surprise, natch) suggests that Naomi's presence is bad news for the Others -- they don't like it when people penetrate the island's InvisiShield. Ben pauses and considers his options. The Others are planning a beach attack the day after tomorrow, so Ben figures they can deal with Naomi at that point. But Mikhail implores Ben to move the attack timetable up to today.

And this is when Locke reclaims his status as Island Badass.

Locke, who's been eavesdropping on the conversation, strides toward Mikhail and Ben and informs the duo that Ben already has plans. "He and I are going to see Jacob," Locke says, making sure everyone within 20 feet can hear him loud and clear.

Ben is sheepish. Richard Alpert and Tom look surprised.

Mikhail begins to protest, but Locke puts him in his place with a massive headbutt and a series of punches and kicks to all the soft spots. Ben calls to Tom and Richard for help, but the two remain stationary, entranced by the ass whuppin'. With a final kick to the groin, Mikhail sputters blood and passes out.

"So when do we leave?" Locke asks Ben.

They leave immediately, but Alex appears moments into their journey. She hands Locke a pistol and says he'll need the gun if they're going to visit Jacob. She turns and looks at Ben with disdain.

"Happy birthday, dad," Alex says, then walks off.

Ben's right eye zings through the jungle and embeds in a thousand-year-old tree trunk. All these double crosses and surprises are playing hell on Ben's buggy optics.

Sidenote: The birthday thing plays a significant role in Ben's backstory. More on that in a bit.

Locke and Ben continue on their journey. Most of it is uneventful (the "Lost" writers love using "island journeys" as filler between key scenes), but at one point Locke notices a pile of fine, grey sand (ash?) on the jungle floor. Ben quickly diverts his attention, so Locke doesn't follow up, but you just know that grey ashy stuff will come into play at some point.

Sometime later, Locke and Ben arrive at a small, concealed hut. It's night and the trees are thick, so it's hard to make out the details.

This is Jacob's lair, and Ben is not comfortable at all. He quietly approaches the door and lights a kerosene lamp. "Once I open this door, there's no turning back," Ben says. "You sure this is what you want?'

"You know ... you're right," Locke says, wiping his forehead with Arzt's old scarf. "Let's grab a few beers and impregnate Other chicks."

But of course that doesn't happen. Locke's eyes light up at the prospect of Big Revelations. He walks closer to the door and Ben correctly interprets this as the "go" signal.

"Jacob, I'm here with John Locke, we're coming in now," Ben says. He opens the door. It creaks on its hinges.

Inside, the old cabin is dark and decrepit (it looks like the storage unit from "Silence of the Lambs"). A small table sits in the middle of the room. Mason jars with orange goo are perched on a windowsill. An empty rocking chair is positioned by the table.

And this is when things get weird.

Ben goes to the rocking chair and begins talking to Jacob. But uh ... there's nobody there. Ben is having a conversation with an invisible friend. Locke rolls his eyes. He can't believe he didn't catch on to Ben's insanity.

Ben's "conversation" becomes heated; invisible Jacob is making him angry.

"You're crazy," Locke says to Ben. "You don't know anything about the island, do you? You just made it up. You're putting on a show for me ... or, do you really think there's someone there?"

Ben is surprised. He expected Locke to "see" Jacob.

Locke's had enough of this nonsense. He turns to leave.

"Hellllllp meeeeeeee," a deep voice croaks.

Locke turns around. He thinks Ben is playing tricks (or doing a really bad James Earl Jones impression). Locke flicks his flashlight on.

Uh oh.

The cabin shakes! Wood creaks! Mason jars rattle!

Locke steps back. The flashlight beam darts over the rocking chair. For a fleeting screen-cappy moment, a dark, black "thing" appears in the chair (it looks like a massive cigarette burn). Is that ... Smokey?

Ben grabs the sides of the rocking chair. "That's enough! You've had your fun!" Ben shouts at Jacob.

Jacob tosses Ben against the cabin wall. Locke runs out the front door and crouches a few yards from the cabin. The rattling stops.

Moments later, Ben quietly appears at the door then shuffles over to Locke.

"What was that?" Locke asks.

"That was Jacob," Ben says.

WHAT?! THAT was Jacob?

Wait. What? WHAT?! What was Jacob? That black thing? The cigarette burn?

Good lord, what the hell is going on!?

And of course we don't find out because this is "Lost" and we've got three more seasons to sort through all these details.

Moving on ...

Ben and Locke temporarily put the Jacob encounter on hold as they make their way back toward the Others' camp. The sun is up and Locke can clearly see that Ben is taking a different route to camp. Locke's not interested in seeing the sites (and, unlike Jack "Circles" Shephard, he knows his way around the island).

Locke stops and demands to know what Ben is up to. But Ben's side trip has a point. He says he wants to show Locke something.

Locke protests, saying he's not in the mood for another show (at this point he's sorta kinda concluded that the Jacob extravaganza was orchestrated ... maybe).

Ben resorts to honesty. "Some of the things I told you -- that I've told everyone -- are simply not true," Ben admits.

Locke's curiosity is piqued. He asks for an example.

Ben offers one up: he wasn't born on the island. Locke, naturally, asks where he came from.

"That's what I want to show you," Ben says.

A short while later, Ben guides Locke into a clearing. They stand at the edge of a large, square hole. Locke looks down.

Oh my.

Six feet below, Locke sees skeletons haphazardly tossed and stacked. Old Dharma jumpsuits and name tags are visible. It's a mass grave.

And this is when the true depths of Ben's dark soul are revealed.

"This is where I came from, John," Ben says, looking over the bodies. "These are my people, the Dharma initiative."

He rambles on, saying the Dharma drones were hypocrites -- they sought harmony, but couldn't coexist with the island's original inhabitants.

"When it became clear that one side had to go, that one side had to be purged, I did what I had to do," Ben says, referring to Excuse No. 108 in the Genocide Forgiveness Handbook.

Anger rises in Ben. It's clear his Dharma experience had a profound effect on his outlook.

"I was one of the people smart enough to make sure I didn't end up in that ditch," Ben says. "Which makes me considerably smarter than you, John."

Oookay, that's it. Locke doesn't need to listen to this buggy crap. He rises and turns, prepared to whip Ben's butt.


Oh ... my ... god.

Ben shot Locke! Ben shot Locke in the chest!

Locke stumbles backwards and falls into the grave ditch.

Ben looks down. Smoke wafts from the pistol in his hand.

"What did Jacob say to you?" Ben asks desperately.

Locke stammers. The bullet lodged in his ribcage doesn't feel so good.

"Help me ..." Locke says.

Ben scoffs.

"He said, 'help me,'" Locke groans.

Ben's face drops. These two words -- "help me" -- send Ben's world spiraling.

"Well, I certainly hope he helps you, John," Ben says vengefully. He walks off.

Locke sputters at the bottom of the grave. He's shot and bleeding and dying in a mass grave!

And then it ends!

Allright. My head is spinning and I need to sort a few things out:

  • Just to be clear: Locke isn't dead ... yet. He's dying, but I'm betting that Richard Alpert and Tom swoop in to save the day. Or, the island's healing properties kick in and Locke stages a miraculous recovery.
  • Ben's "power' is waning. In the scenes with Alpert, Tom and Mikhail, it's clear that the Others are growing tired of Ben's shenanigans. Is Ben about to be ostracized? Or worse, tossed into the Dharma grave?
  • It appears that Jacob -- whatever he/it is -- favors Locke over Ben, and this is driving Ben nutty. Ben might be able to "see" Jacob, but Jacob sent his secret message ("help me") to Locke.
  • Why does the all-powerful, all-knowing, list-making Jacob need help? What's wrong with him? Did he misplace his VisiCream?
Point 2
Ben The backstory chronicles Ben's history on the island, and it is loaded with easter eggs and Dharma details. I'm sure I'll miss some of them, so please chime in with your observations via the comments mechanism.

So here's what we learn in Ben's Tragic Backstory:

  • As noted, Ben wasn't born on the island. He was, however, born in the woods. His mother, Emily, and his father, Roger, were hiking near Portland (Oregon, I'm assuming), when Ben decided to arrive two months early. Emily successfully delivered Ben, but something went wrong and she died moments after Ben's arrival.
  • Emily's death sent Roger to a bad, bad place. He blames Ben for killing his wife, which doesn't lend itself to a healthy father-son relationship. Their issues are manifested annually when Roger consistently forgets about Ben's birthday.
  • Roger's friendship with a man named Horace Goodspeed (who has a name like that?) brings Roger and Ben to the island as Dharma recruits. Horace and Roger bonded when Horace tried to help Emily after Ben's unexpected birth. Years later, Horace joined up with Dharma and invited Roger and Ben to live/work on the island.
  • Ben is around 10 years old when he and his father come to Dharma World. In flashbacks, we see Dharma in its heyday. Apollo Bars are abundant. The submarine is shiny and new. The dock is painted and "Namaste" signs welcome new recruits.
  • Roger and Ben's fresh start on the island doesn't last very long. Moments after arriving, Roger discovers that he's been hired as a janitor (a "work man"), which doesn't sit well.
  • As a young boy, Ben is a sullen little fella with big round glasses (he's Harry Potter's doppleganger). He manages to befriend a girl named Annie. On his birthday, sweet-hearted Annie gives Ben two wooden dolls: a boy (Ben) and a girl (Annie). In the present day, we see that the Annie doll is one of Ben's treasured keepsakes.
  • We witness two very interesting events in Ben's early Dharma experience: First, we see him in a classroom. His teacher, Olivia (Horace Goodspeed's significant other), is teaching a class on volcanoes. She tells the class that the island's volcano is dormant, but as she activates a classroom volcano prop, a low rumble echoes through the island. Is this another case of the island's Stay-Puft "think it and it will happen" ability?
  • Second, as the rumble echoes, shouting is heard outside the classroom and an alarm starts to blare. Olivia instructs the children to take their "positions." She then grabs a rifle (always a good thing to have in a classroom) and perches near a window. Outside, armed Dharma drones dart around the compound. Little Ben is wide-eyed and scared out of his mind, but Annie (who's an old Dharma pro) calms him. "Don't worry, it's just the hostiles," she says.

  • Months go by and Roger and Ben grow further apart. Roger continues to fume about his low-level employment, and he drowns his sorrows in case after case of Dharma beer. Ben withdraws further into himself -- his only friend appears to be Annie -- and his internal turmoil soon manifests itself with "visions" of his dead mother.

    But are they visions?

    During one particularly bad birthday, Ben runs into the woods and encounters the Sonic Death Fence. It hums menacingly. Suddenly, his mother appears on the opposite side. He starts to run toward her, but she stops him in his tracks. "It's not time yet, Benjamin," she says.

    This Mother Event proves to be pivotal both in Ben's island existence and Dharma's ultimate demise.

  • Sometime later, young Ben uses a secret pass code to disable the Sonic Death Fence and wander into dark territory. Moving into the jungle, he hears those familiar whispers (they appear to be a hallmark of the Hostiles). Thinking his mother is near, he runs and calls for her.

    A figure appears, but it's not his mother.

    It's Richard Alpert!

    At this point, Ben is still 10 or 11 years old, but Alpert -- who in the present day seems to be around Ben's age -- is in his 20s. Perhaps the age discrepancy is intentional, or maybe they want us to believe that Alpert is 10-12 years older than Ben. Regardless, it's jarring to see Eyeliner Alpert and little Ben together.

    Anywho ... young Ben tells Alpert that he saw his mother and this causes Alpert's eyebrow to unconsciously crawl up. Dead mother, eh? Verrrry interesting ....

    Ben says he wants to join the Hostiles and Alpert, based on Ben's mother revelation, is open to the idea. He seems to sense that Ben has a connection to the island, and that connection could prove useful. But there's a hitch: Ben may be able to join the Hostiles down the road, but for now he will need to be very patient.

  • Alpert wasn't kidding about that patient thing. The story jumps ahead by at least a decade. Young Ben is now Current Ben (well, current Ben plus more hair -- so he's "younger current Ben") and, in the final flashback sequence, we see that Ben has followed in his father's "Work Man" footsteps. He wears the same janitor jumpsuit and carries himself in the same low-man-on-the-Namaste-pole way.

    Once again, it's Ben's birthday, and once again, Roger has forgotten. But the years seem to have softened ol' Rog, so, to make up for decades of neglect, he invites his son to tag along in his blue Dharma van so they can drive up to the "mesa" and share a few beers.

    Ben agrees, so the two zip off. As they drive, "Shambala" plays over the Van's speakers (this is the same song that blares from the same van when Hurley and the boys get it running in "Tricia Tanaka is Dead"). They reach the mesa (the steep hill also seen in "Tricia Tanaka") and Ben asks his father if he truly believes that Ben killed his mother.

    "What do I know," Roger mumbles.

    Ben doesn't really care about the answer. He looks at his watch then reaches into a bag and takes out a gas mask.

    "You know, I've missed her too, maybe as much as you have," Ben says, referring to dead mom. "But the difference is, for as long as I can remember, I've had to put up with you. And doing that required a tremendous amount of patience."

    Ben puts the gas mask on and pulls the pin on a can of fumes.

    Gas swirls around the cabin of the van. Blood drips from Roger's nose and he shakes violently.

    Godspeed, Roger Work Man.

    After dispatching dad, Ben keeps his gas mask on and walks back to Dharmaville. The grounds are littered with dead Dharma drones. They've all been gassed.

    Richard Alpert and other gas-mask-clad hostiles appear. Alpert removes his mask and asks Ben if they'd like him to retrieve his father.

    "No, leave him out there," Ben says, completing his journey to the Dark Side.

    And that's that.

The backstory inspires a host of questions, including:

  • What is the genesis of the Hostiles vs. Dharma conflict? When Ben and Roger arrive on the island, the "battle" has been going on for some time. We don't know how or why it started.
  • Who are the Hostiles? Are they island natives? How does/did their society function? Is Alpert a Hostile? If so, he appears to be well educated and well versed in guerilla warfare -- so how did he learn these things? Where did he learn these things?
  • How does Jacob factor into all this? Is Jacob connected to the Hostiles? Are Smokey and Jacob one in the same, or does Jacob use Smokey to "take form"?
  • How did Ben become leader of the Others? At first it seems that Alpert has seniority over him, but in the final flashback sequence, Ben is in control. What happened?
  • How does former hatch inhabitant Kelvin fit into all this? Was he the last remaining Dharma drone? How did he survive? Was he on the island during the purge, or did he arrive later?
  • How do the DeGroots and Alvar Hanso fit in? Were they ever on the island, or did they simply come up with the master plan and monitor from afar?

  • What happened to Annie?
Point 3




This week's beach scenes are set-ups for the oncoming castaway/Other battle, but we do receive one big, juicy revelation: Juliet's secret is out.

Sawyer returns to camp with the tape recorder in tow (remember, Locke gave him the recorder at the end of "The Brig"). At first, Sawyer only shares the news with Sayid, but Kate eventually finds out and, later, Sayid and Sawyer stage a town meeting with the rest of the castaways.

As expected, people freak when they discover that Juliet and her Other friends plan on kidnapping all the pregnant women (Sun, perhaps Kate, maybe they'll even dig up Nikki just for good measure). But as the townspeople prepare their torches and pitchforks, Jack and Juliet suddenly appear.

See, the J&J duo promptly left camp after Kate told them about Naomi and her rescue ship. We don't know where they went or what they did, but when they return they add another little twist to the plot.

We learn that Juliet told Jack about Ben's pregnancy plan. Juliet (we presume) is double-crossing Ben and Jack (we presume) is formulating a counter-attack. Juliet manages to temporarily save her hide by instructing Sawyer to play the other side of the tape. That's when we hear Ben's latest instructions:

"Juliet, it's Ben [No kidding], I'm sending three teams to extract Kwon the night after tomorrow. We won't have time to run Austen's sample, so if you determine that she and anyone else is pregnant, mark their tents and we'll take them too. Good luck."

Juliet then reveals that after she saw Sun's ultrasound ("D.O.C.") she spilled the beans to Jack. Sayid, who's tired of all these ridiculous secrets, asks Jack why he didn't share this vital bit of information.

"Because I hadn't decided what to do about it yet," Jack says. Question: When did Jack become General Patton?

Jack looks around at the assembled castaways.

"I think we've got some catching up to do," he says.

And that'll lead us straight into next week ...

Point 4
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "You said that if I killed my father you'd tell me everything I wanted to know about the island ... *THUNK* ... so why don't you start at the beginning." -- Locke to Ben, after presenting Cooper's gift wrapped corpse.
  • Second Best Line: "I guess we've got some catching up to do." -- Jack, with the understatement of the season.

  • Mikhail says his survival is due to the Sonic Death Fence not being set on a "lethal level." Apparently, it was set to the much lower "shoot blood from every orifice" level.

  • This episode features three interesting casting tidbits: 1. Emily (Ben's mom) is played by Carrie Preston, who is married to Michael Emerson (Ben). Oedipus, anyone? 2. Ben's dad (Roger) is played by Jon Gries, who is best known as Uncle Rico from "Napoleon Dynamite." 3. And finally, "X-Files" fans may have recognized Horace Goodspeed (Doug Hutchinson) as one of the great "X-File" villains of all time, Eugene Victor Tooms.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"Greatest Hits" -- Jack whips up an Other plan. Sayid uncovers a flaw in the Others' system. Charlie is in great peril. All in all, just another day on the island. Airs Wednesday, May 16, 2007 at 10 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Posted by Mac Slocum on May 10, 2007 10:57 AM |

Locke can not die!!!

#1. Posted by: michael at May 10, 2007 11:00 AM

That was Quick!

#2. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at May 10, 2007 11:00 AM


#3. Posted by: John Doe at May 10, 2007 11:02 AM

Not even third this week...dang!

#4. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 11:03 AM

I jumped out of my seat when Locke got shot, my goodness.

#5. Posted by: dor at May 10, 2007 11:07 AM

Does it seem to anyone else how much the writers/producers are listening to the blogs? I don't remember the term 'hostiles' being used for another supposed group on the island except as a theory on the blogs and now last night. Am I wrong and missing something or are we, the fans contributing more than we realize?

#6. Posted by: JOSS at May 10, 2007 11:08 AM

@JOSS: Both Desmond and Kelvin used the term "Hostile" last year.

#7. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 11:09 AM

There is a short scene after Ben is thrown across the room where you can see Jacob sitting in the chair. Looks like an ordinary man. There are screen captures of it on the lost-media website.

#8. Posted by: IBelieve at May 10, 2007 11:11 AM

Great review, and I'm agreeing with you about all the unanswered questions.

How come LOST manages to raise more questions each week, LOL ??!!

Here's what I think....

Locke = Jacob ... just not yet.

I think Locke will probably die. And like Ben Kenobi and Gandalf, he will come back as a newer, better Locke .... If Gandalf the Grey can return as Gandalf the White, then Locke can return as Jacob, no?

Yes, I believe that LOST is now operating on a mythic, "Hero With A Thousand Faces" level.

The Jacob scene .... I think Jacob looked like Locke's silhouette. [Have you checked out some of the hi-def screen caps online?]

I think there's some weird time-thing happening. Possibly, Locke could not see Jacob because one person cannot exist in two time-periods at the same time .... (what an awkward sentence that was!).

Weird episode.

Also, it is possible that the "help me" line means that Jacob is imprisoned in that house. Could that explain the grey powder?? Does it trap Jacob there??

Also, if this theory is correct, it could bring new meaning to "Only Fools are enslaved by time and space".

Maybe Ben has imprisoned Jacob ...

Meanwhile..... I'm hoping that Jack comes clean next week and tells everyone WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON WITH HIM. I miss the old Jack. In Season Three, Jack has been emasculated a bit.

#9. Posted by: Matt-DC at May 10, 2007 11:13 AM

It was great- and so was the re-cap Mac. Thanks!

But can someone please make this connection for me:

Who is Dharma still dropping food to on the island?

What was the actual purpose of the hatch: pushing the button, watching at the Pearl, keeping those record-logs that piled a mountain high?

Loved Uncle Rico's cameo....Ehy Jiggy!

#10. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 10, 2007 11:16 AM

Oh man, I am so gullible.....or am I? It all depends if Locke is dead or not.

This year Johnny had been really getting on my nerves…blowing stuff up and all that….and I was convinced that his stupidity would soon get him in a load of trouble. But then, over the last few episodes, I started to think…maybe he had a plan…maybe he knew what he was doing. He was clearly getting in Ben’s head and possibly even gaining the respect of the others.

They pulled me in hook line and sinker. And right when Ben was about to shoot Locke, I realized what a fool I’d been.

And yet….maybe he’s not dead….could this be the catalyst for a relationship between Locke and Jacob.

That episode was worthy of a season ending finale. Only thing I didn’t understand was why had the writers and Ben been leading us to believe that Ben was born on the island….that, I don’t get..

Favorite scene last night – After Locke opened up a can of whoop @ss on Patchy, he gave Patchy a really subtle “I own you” grin as he and Ben were leaving camp. Very well done.

Thanks Mac!

#11. Posted by: petew at May 10, 2007 11:17 AM

@IBelieve: You're right! I checked Lost-Media. In this screencap you can clearly see an older guy:

#12. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 11:18 AM

Wow, mac, I sure didn’t envy you last night trying to put together a review of this episode. It was, indeed, LOADED!!!!

Now we know for sure that:

Ben was NOT born on the island.
His Dad was a drunk who eventually let Hurley have his car.
“Ghost appearances” are just an everyday norm on the island.

The “Others” are NOT Dharma
The “Others” ARE the hostiles
The Hostiles were considered “natives” to the Dharmas.
The hostiles eradicated the Dharmas.
Ben is a Judas.

The hostiles obviously have found the Fountain of Youth, because Alpert is still the same age after nearly 40 years.

Ben shot Locke.
Ben fatally shot Locke - is still an open question.

The “Others” are planning to attack the Losties in less than two days.
Juliet is maybe not so bad after all.
Jack has a plan.
Sayid has a very good scowl.


Locke steps back. The flashlight beam darts over the rocking chair. For a fleeting screen-cappy moment, a dark, black "thing" appears in the chair (it looks like a massive cigarette burn). Is that ... Smokey?
Å® Posted by: mac

This morning, while viewing a filmclip on the ABC Lost Site, I realized that for one nano-second, there ACTUALLY WAS a person sitting in the chair in the cabin. Right after Ben cries out about “You’ve had your fun” and gets knocked to the floor, if you slow down the tape, there is a man, full head of hair, but with a high forehead, face in shadows (of course) sitting in the rocking chair!


This is getting really interesting.

#13. Posted by: davidrh at May 10, 2007 11:20 AM

On images in that room...I've heard that Vincent was shown as well. Odd.

#14. Posted by: petew at May 10, 2007 11:21 AM

Wonder if anyone caught the fact that Locke was shot on his left side. Where his Kindney would have been if he hadn't given it to his dad!!!!!!! Locke WILL NOT DIE !!! MAC what do ya think....Jacob healing Locke???

#15. Posted by: dantheman at May 10, 2007 11:22 AM


Made it in the top 20!!!!

#16. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 11:22 AM

OH NO!!!

We're going to start the

"Did anybody notice the picture thing again?"

#17. Posted by: davidrh at May 10, 2007 11:23 AM

So does anyone thing that the island keeps adults from aging? I ask cause Richard does not to have aged since first seeing Ben as a teenager - he just got a hair cut.....

#18. Posted by: Toni at May 10, 2007 11:27 AM

Ummm... the big "cigarette burn" looking thing was a guy sitting in the chair. You need to watch that part again.

#19. Posted by: BrentM at May 10, 2007 11:28 AM

Why Jacob is invisible remains to be seen! Ha!

(Bcre8ve's Observation Blather)


* Hostiles = Others = Native Islanders? That is what we were led to believe last night. But I for one am not taking it at face value. First, they were all too white to be native to that area of the world. Secondly, they had too good of a grasp of technology (guns, gas, gas masks, etc.) If by native they meant Black Rock survivors, then maybe. It could be that there was another, earlier rebellion and some of the Dharmites joined with the island natives. My question is, "Who supplied them with their weapons?"

* Why does Richard ALpert seem to recognize Ben as his leader? Richard recognized Ben's power when they first met in the woods. Ben got his attention when he told him that he had seen his dead mother. Apparently the hostiles are/were looking for people that are special. Richard saw this trait in Ben just as he does in Locke.

* @Matt-DC/9 I noticed that too. Theory: "Only fools are enslaved by space and time." The message that we saw in room 23 was joke at Jacob's expense. Jacob (and crew - the whispers?) are enslaved by space and time. Somehow in the Dharma experiments or because of the nature of the island, Jacob has been caught in time. Ben knows this and is taking advantage of Jacob, his powers and the situation. Jacob recognizes that Locke has powers similar to Ben's, siezes his chance, and asked Locke for help.

* Knowing the healing powers of the island, it seemed short sighted for Ben to shoot Locke only once.

* Only certain gifted people such as Ben and Locke can see Jacob. That is why Richard originally took interest in Ben and now in Locke.

But if that is so, think about who else has seen "ghosts" on the island.
(mac touched on this in the review)

Jack - his dad
Eko - his brother
Hurley - Dave
Kate - her horse
Sayid - his cat

(I'm probably leaving some out...) Are they special too?

* In the scene where Ben is walking through the Barracks after the Purge, I was expecting to see Annie. But then I started thinking...

In another episode next season or so, we will see a Ben flashback in which Ben and Annie are married. She is pregnant and will die in childbirth along with their baby.

* Did anyone else think that they saw Cindy on the island greeting new comers? I will have to go back and rewatch it to see for sure. If so, how did she survive the Purge?

50 epis yet to come...

#20. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 11:30 AM

Yes, there is definately a human figure in the chair for a nano-second. I wasn't thrilled with all of the poltergeist shenanigans last night. I'm going to have a hard time swallowing the explanation for this, just like how Patches averted death.

#21. Posted by: Bryan at May 10, 2007 11:30 AM

Did anyone notice that the Dharma video playing when Benny and Dad arrived was in color, whereas the tapes the Losties have found have been in B&W?

Not that that means anything, but...

#22. Posted by: jan at May 10, 2007 11:32 AM

So, here's a thought that ties Kelvin in nicely: Maybe this Ben-orchestrated purge was "The Incident" that was referred to in the training video. If that's true, that would mean that Dharma was set back, but not deterred, and that they came back for a second round. Maybe that was why The Flame was set up with an ability to blow up the hostiles. What do you guys think?

#23. Posted by: Kaytied at May 10, 2007 11:33 AM

I'm with Bryan (#21), I thought the whole invisible Jacob/poltergeist thing was stupid. Until that point the episode was fantastic.
Thanks as always for a great review mac.

#24. Posted by: ct at May 10, 2007 11:35 AM

Another one of the best lines was when Locke asked Ben, "So, where did you come from?" Well, OK, maybe it wasn't one of the best but it would've been better if Ben had answered something like, "Well, John, when a mommy and a daddy love each other very much...."

I thought I saw Jacob's face very briefly just as he was saying "Help me" (which sounded like "Know me" at first) but maybe it was just Locke's face with a furrowed brow? Wish I had DVR so I could get better screencaps!
Had to watch the whole Jacob scene twice just to digest enough to follow along. There was a painting/picture of a yellow lab on one of the pieces of withered furniture, but I doubt it was supposed to be Vincent himself.


#25. Posted by: Trinity at May 10, 2007 11:36 AM

GRAA, mac.
What an episode. Here is my 2 pesos worth: The gray ash that Locke found on the way to Jacob's house is the same ash / dirt that they found in the Pearl Station. (I think it was the Pearl) There has to be some connection there.
The ash was in a continuous line. I assume that it forms a ring around Jacob's compound. Is it flammable? Does it act as a moat or a fence? Does it keep people out (not likely as Ben & Locke walked right over it) or does it keep Jacob in? That's all for now.
I would have never guessed that Roger workman would end up being Ben's dad.
Peace Out.

#26. Posted by: onelostdude at May 10, 2007 11:38 AM

If all the Dharma group has been killed off, then why do they still get food drops??????

#27. Posted by: dantheman at May 10, 2007 11:38 AM


Interesting. It woud explain some things for sure.

I tend to think that the Purge and Incident are two seperate occurances and that the Incident occured first and caused the Dharma group to split off into two groups. One splintered group joined the true natives of the island and became the hostiles who then took poart in the Dharma purge.

#28. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 11:38 AM

In last week's promo, there were images of a ghostly little girl. Could that have been Annie, and if so, why did they not follow up on it this week?

Also, I thought the sonic death fence on "stun" was kind of lame...

#29. Posted by: Three men and a baby... I counted Hugo twice at May 10, 2007 11:39 AM

i'm not entirely convinced that Richard doesn't age. Sometimes Hollywood thinks that if you give someone long hair it makes them look younger... maybe the makeup department just got a little lazy. Note that when we saw Richard again later, when Ben was a young adult, he had short hair. We'll see, I guess.

Locke definitely isn't dead.

I"m really anxious to see how they explain Jacob, because last night could have either been the best episode ever, or a shark-jumping ramp.

#30. Posted by: jay at May 10, 2007 11:43 AM

Great review as always Mac! Love the reason 108 excuse book line, classic.

One observation you neglected to mention. in the beginning of the episode, Richard came to Ben and asked about giving Juliet the latest instructions. This seemed to cause a problem that ended quickly when Locke arrived. It is evident of something else going on between the "Others".

#31. Posted by: Sam at May 10, 2007 11:44 AM

also, i think the hostiles "took over" for Dharma, and due to the nature of communications/visitation on the island, Dharma is not even aware. As far as they know, everything is still just fine.

Remember Kelvin said he had joined the Dharma Initiative and he had been on the island for 3 years before Desmond came. Desmond was on the island for 4 years before we met him. So, the Dharma initiative (or the hostiles masquerading as the dharma initiative) was still recruiting people and sending them to the island as of 7 years ago. I think this explains the food drops, the Dharma people back in the real world have no idea what has happened on the island.

#32. Posted by: jay at May 10, 2007 11:46 AM

@dantheman/27 "If all the Dharma group has been killed off, then why do they still get food drops?????? "

I would guess that once the Purge occured, the Hostiles took over the roles of the Dharmites effectively manning the essential stations. This would include the communications that enabled them to keep up the appearance of normal operations on the island including the Flame where they would request the drops. Dharma would have no reason to stop the drops.

#33. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 11:46 AM

GRAA mac -
On the Richard aging issue. Ben says to Richard, when he's looking at his old birthday doll present from Annie, something like "It's my birthday." Then sarcastically Ben says "You do remember birthdays don't you?" That right there made me think, Richard doesn't have or celebrate birthdays anymore because he doesn't age. hummmm...?

#34. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 11:51 AM

One mystery I want solved - remember the volcano lab test. Olivia started the reaction, then the room shaked, then again, and again. We all thought, wow, what a coincidence that the real volcano started shaking right then (or they were just having an earthquake). Teacher says get in your positions - we think, hey - standard duck & cover earthquake/atom bomb drill. The teacher has a rifle, a the Dharmites outside start running for the perimeter with their rifles. SO - not an earthquake! What on the island makes the ground shake so. (Polar Bears, smokie, T4TS?)

#35. Posted by: DocH at May 10, 2007 11:53 AM

Great episode.

Anyone who thinks that Lindelof and Cuse are just "winging it" don't get it. They are 10 steps ahead of everyone else.

My number one question is: Did Annie also get gassed during the purge?

She and ben were really close, (he still carries her fugurine. Could he have killed her, or did he rescue her first?

#36. Posted by: Usually Lurkin' at May 10, 2007 11:58 AM

Fantastic review Mac!

Loved this line:

"He wears the same janitor jumpsuit and carries himself in the same low-man-on-the-Namaste-pole way"

Locke will not die - the question is - who will save him?

Will it be Jacob? Not likely, as he seemed to be the one asking Locke for help!

My money is on a Rousseau intervention.

This episode has set-up what the future of the show will be. No doubt, future flashbacks will reveal what happened to Annie, how Ben was seduced to the darkside, etc. After all - how many more Jack backstories can their possibly be?

It will be intersting to learn more about Jacob, and how everyone else seems to have no doubt he exists despite having never met him. Locke's take on the matter (a-la Oz Man behind the curtain) is how everyman would look on the matter. So how has Jacob managed to get full loyalty from these people? More importantly, how was Juliet convinced that he exists, as she has only been on the island for 3 years, and would likely be as cynical as Locke?

Time will tell.....

#37. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 11:59 AM

Mac, that cigarette burn thing you see in the rocking chair when Locke shines his light on it is simply the middle of the beam on most cheap flashlights. Really good lights have adjustable beams that will narrow the big "shadow" in the middle to near nothingness. Old flashlights (which presumably would be on the island) almost always have that light void in the middle. Trust me, it will drive you nuts if you ever have to change a tire in the dark on the side of the road, and your good flashlight is at home!

#38. Posted by: Neal at May 10, 2007 11:59 AM

There is a continuity issue here, that probably doesn't really matter.

This is Day 91 on the Island, which makes it December 21. Alex tells Ben "Happy birthday," which means Ben was born on December 22.

How many December 22nds in Portland are good days for hiking with your pregnant wife and driving around in convertibles?

#39. Posted by: Doogie at May 10, 2007 12:02 PM

So..why is Mikhail alive? Something about the security posts not resetting?

#40. Posted by: GatorGal at May 10, 2007 12:02 PM

I ALWAYS thought that Richard was wearing EYELINER!! How funny that you noticed, too.

#41. Posted by: joe at May 10, 2007 12:04 PM

Regarding the paradox of a December birthday with a verdant landscape and convertibles: There is a a Portland *Florida* which is conveniently located between Pensacola and... Tallahassee

#42. Posted by: Zizzy at May 10, 2007 12:06 PM

Great review Mac. Great episode.

A couple of random thoughts I had when I watched the episode and after having had time to review my thoughts...

1) I saw what looked like black smoke in Ben's eyes while he was speaking with Jacob... am I hallucinating?

2) I did see a picture of a lab in Jacob's digs... Vincent?

3) A note on the whole island is hell theory that Tom Sawyer (daddy Locke) was proposing last week... Jacob did appear to be "A Lord of Darkness". Also, it made me think of the whole Karl brainwashing acid trip visuals... "God loves you as he once loved Jacob." Satan was a fallen angel, no? Could Jacob be the devil?

4) Jacob's house appears to be quite a babe magnet.

#43. Posted by: Gitmo at May 10, 2007 12:06 PM

re: Annie

My guess is that she was not gassed, and was not around (ie dead). In future flashbacks, we will see Ben and Annie get close, and the loss of her will likely be what makes Ben jump sides!

re: Richard

All signs seem to point towards not aging. While recruiting Juliet, did he not show a 70 year olds womb?

re: The Purge

Is the purge the same thing as "the incident" that was referred to in the Dharma training film?

#44. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 12:07 PM

Great review as always Mac.
How are the Hostiles getting these sophisticated weapons???? Gas bombs, Gas Masks. Why weren't there any dead animals around (birds, etc)???
How can Jack battle Locke in the season finale if Locke is dead??????
I liked the ep, but too many questions again...

#45. Posted by: Donna at May 10, 2007 12:09 PM

Perhaps Annie was an early victim of the Pregnancy Purge?

#46. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 12:10 PM

TCBWAP = The Cigarette Burn Was A Person

#47. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at May 10, 2007 12:11 PM

I usually read this blog because so many of you throw out great theories that I can never come up with. But here is one that I could be completely off with.

Do you think that Ben could of been concieved on "the island" but then born in Portland? His mother died of the same problem that all the other woman who concieve on the island do.

I don't know how this could be possible, but just throwing it out there.

#48. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at May 10, 2007 12:13 PM

One last thought...

Why would Alex give Locke a gun, and tell him he will need it if he is visiting Jacob?

Good thing she wished him a happy b-day.... forget that consistantly, and you're a goner!

#49. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 12:13 PM

@PiecesofArzt: The cigarette burn is people! It's PEOPLE!

#50. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 12:16 PM

@Sam (30)-
Ben was feaking out about the tape recorder becuase he thought Alpert already dropped it of for Juliet when in fact Locke stole it and gave it to Sawyer.

This was a very cool episode, but I don't know how I feel about Invisa-Jake yet, if they address it SOON and give a good explanation, I'll be satisfied- but they better not leave this piece of the puzzle until 2010!!

#51. Posted by: sarah c at May 10, 2007 12:17 PM

@21 and 24, I am with you, I think the Jacob scene was where they finally jumped the shark. However, I have invested so much in this show, I am hoping that they will redeem themselves.

I got a laugh about the exchange between Sayid and Jack. Jack says, "I haven't decided what to do yet." Clearly, he is no longer an ambivalent leader. But it looks like the Losties no longer wish to be led by him.

I think Ben saved Annie from the Sarin gas event, but something later happened to her.

I am not sure about the theory posted about Ben's mother coming from the island, as he was born alive and she did make it to the 3rd trimester. However, it explains his obsession with birth and saving the mothers.

#52. Posted by: boharpe at May 10, 2007 12:23 PM

long time reader, first time writer - love the reviews mac. is it possible we're over-thinking the ash? could it be volcanic ash left behind after an eruption? if that's the case, my money's on Annie got toasted in an eruption back in the day which is why Ben is so sensitive to Locke touching it...cuz c'mon, they're not gonna mention the volcano has been dormant and then not have it erupt. But that would be somewhat logical, and when has Lost ever been logical?

#53. Posted by: eric at May 10, 2007 12:24 PM

Am I only one, who once seeing the decrepit cabin in the woods, was hoping that Jacob was, in fact, Ash from the Evil Dead movies.

Ben and Locke walk into the cabin, and there sits Bruce Campbell... Groovey.

#54. Posted by: michael at May 10, 2007 12:25 PM

OK, *if* Jacob is Smokey, I doubt that Jacob is Locke in a time warp. Someone posted a pic of Smokey with Eko, and Eko was seeing his brother, and other scenes from his life.
*****Potential Spoilers*******
Has anyone read Tom Sawyer? Obviously our Sawyer is reading a lot of Mark Twain in his spare time, and a friend of a friend said that there is a scene in the book where Tom fakes his own death to see if Becky really loves him. She bet money that our Sawyer would fake his own death to see if Kate really cared. There was also some connection with Tom Sawyer and diamonds, but since I haven't read the book since 4th grade, I don't remember what it was.

#55. Posted by: Dotty at May 10, 2007 12:28 PM

Awesome review as always Mac.

When we see Ben and Dad waiting in line in Dahrmaville, you can see a new Dr. Candle video welcoming all the newcomers to the island. He explains their purpose here is to study the "special" properties the island posesses. Is this what Richard meant when he was talking to Locke in "The Brig" when he said Ben was wasting their time at fertility issues, and not focusing on the bigger picture?

There is just no way that Locke will die. He is too big of a player in the grand scheme of things, and with the show now haveing an end date, I think we will all finally get to see what that exactly is.

When we were told there would be five deaths in the last four episodes, I wonder if they are actually major characters, or if they are including key people in backstories (such as Ben's mom).

#56. Posted by: The Other Other at May 10, 2007 12:28 PM

I believe that the circle of ash surrounding Jacob's cabin was some sort of supernatural fence, keeping Jacob in. I have read some crap about witchcraft where a circle of salt is used to sanctify an alter/spell area. Perhaps this "ash" is serving a similar purpose.

Also, I think that Richard Alpert and the "hostiles" are not quite human. The actor who played Ben's father was made up to show a difference in age as the episode progressed, so why wouldn't the same be done to show a change in Richard? I realize that it is a lot easier to make someone look older than it is to make them look younger, but still, I can't believe it was an oversight. There is something very strange about Richard.

Locke is dead. It's a shame too, because he finally started to grow a pair.

#57. Posted by: markthefish at May 10, 2007 12:29 PM

The shaking of the compound when the volcano science experiment started: the hostiles trying to get through the Sonic Fence. Which would then mean that when Patchy went through the sonic fence, it was probably heard/felt in Ben's camp. So Ben would have been prepared for Locke,Sayid, Kate, Rousseau's arrival.

Possible big prop error? Was the knock-out gas the same canister as Ben's fatal purge gas??

#58. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2007 12:32 PM

One question I have is whether or not women on the island had problems with child birth before Ben got to the island? Could this be part of Ben's connection to the island force.

Also I believe the powder around Jacob's hut was similar to placing a "magic" circle around either a spirit to contain it or around oneself to ward off evil.

Just thoughts.

#59. Posted by: Kevin at May 10, 2007 12:33 PM

Was Mikail a Dharma guy or "ostile" guy..I thought he was Dharma so why is he not a part of the purge...Why did he survive and what allowed him to be a pat of the hostile group? many why's

#60. Posted by: mike at May 10, 2007 12:33 PM

The line of ash that Lock found, sometimes with vodoo and other forms of witch craft the line is ment to keep spirts trapped in a particular area

#61. Posted by: goldenboy at May 10, 2007 12:35 PM

MAC, as always - superb! My fav line from your review:

"All these double crosses and surprises are playing hell on Ben's buggy optics."

Love it!

#62. Posted by: GatorGal at May 10, 2007 12:37 PM

Cindy Chandler, the flight attendent from #815 was in last night's episode greeting Ben and his father when they first arrived on island.. This would mean that she was on the "Lost flight" and must have known it was going to crash.

#63. Posted by: kate thornton at May 10, 2007 12:37 PM

@mac/46 – maybe Annie died carrying Ben’s baby and that is why he is so obsessed with fixing the pregnancy thing?

I hope Locke is not dead. Despite all of his recent actions, I still really love his character especially the way he whooped up on Mikhail. But…

******* POSSIBLE SPOILER (I think) *******
Didn’t the writers say there was going to be a big showdown between Jack and Locke in the final episode? If so, then our man Locke will probably be fine.
Also, the writers have said the fact that Locke heard Jacob say “Help me” will change his course on the island.
******* END POSSIBLE SPOILER *******

Ben seemed pretty upset that Locke could *also* hear Jacob. Is this because Locke has a connection with the island that Ben now holds exclusively? Is Ben afraid that Locke will “overthrow” him and become leader of the Others?

And why did Alex give Locke a gun to take on his visit to Jacob? Has she met him before? Jacob didn’t seem like the type you could take down with a gun since he is invisible and can make objects fly (maybe his real name is Peter Petrelli). ;)

And finally, anyone think the sand that Ben stepped over really is Smokey taking a “smoke break”? Since Jacob can control things without touching them, does he control Smokey too?

Mac – as always, great job with the review. Love it, love it, love it.

#64. Posted by: callie at May 10, 2007 12:42 PM

@Shikotee : "One last thought...

Why would Alex give Locke a gun, and tell him he will need it if he is visiting Jacob?"

Because she knew Ben would kill Locke after he visited Jacob, hence the look Alex and Ben shared when she handed the gun to Locke.

#65. Posted by: rgr_moore at May 10, 2007 12:44 PM

How about the dharma people on the island were part of a larger expiriment, and the hostiles were there watching them and carrying out experiments on them. Seeing how they would react and such.

#66. Posted by: Frank the Frowner at May 10, 2007 12:46 PM

GRAA, Mac,
@ jan/22,
"Did anyone notice that the Dharma video playing when Benny and Dad arrived was in color, whereas the tapes the Losties have found have been in B&W?"
I saw that too, but I just put it down to a color tv vs. a b&w monitor.
@Doogie/39 & Zizzy/42,
Re. Portland, FL vs. Portland, ME/WA/OR,
Did anybody catch a license plate on the convertible?

Now for my dos pesos...

So Ben's daddy never gave him a birthday cake. Boo hoo.

More and more I'm thinking that the whole "dadyy issues" has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Agatha Christie was a great fan of the red herring, and I really believe that's what this whole issue is. I mean, who doesn't have issues with their parental units?

I think what was considerably more interesting was that Ben sold out his fellow Dharma-ites to Eyeliner Dick. Ben's so concerned with not being thought of as a liar, but he has no problem with murder, first degree or mass?

And yeah, what happened to Annie, young Ben's girlfriend, the one who gave him the little wood-carving dolls? Did they show it and I missed it? I think this is a key turning point for Benny…much like Anakin and Padme.

#67. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 10, 2007 12:50 PM

Another awesome review Mac.

Something that struck me as odd ..... all the dead Dharmanians in the UNCOVERED mass grave have obviously been there a long time. So why were they all so intact? Seems that some of the island varmints would have rooted around in there over the years and disturbed them a lot.

Also, what does Ben have against bunnies?

#68. Posted by: Saminator at May 10, 2007 12:50 PM

@mac #12 & davidrh #13

The man in the chair looks like he's wearing a ruffled shirt, like a pirate shirt...

#69. Posted by: Krys at May 10, 2007 12:55 PM

Ben's mom's name is Emily. Lockes mom's name is Emily..............could it be?

#70. Posted by: Frank the Frowner at May 10, 2007 12:56 PM

Aweeome episode!! Did anyone else get a shiver down their spine when Jacob spoke??? And to actually catch a glimpse of him. How come John didn't see him? I KNOW no one on this blog saw that coming!

#71. Posted by: BELost at May 10, 2007 12:56 PM

The convertable didn't have front license plate.

#72. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at May 10, 2007 12:57 PM

For old x files / current Lost fans... not only was Goodspeed "Tooms", but the Dharma school teacher (Samantha Mathis) and Locke (Terry O'Quinn) starred on the short lived "Harsh Realm" from X files creators. O'Quinn was "Santiago". Useless, but interesting I thought.

As always good stuff mac daddy. Long live Lost!

#73. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 12:59 PM

All I know is that clearly the writers watch these blogs, and reviews. At a very minimum, they have a focus group who watches episodes prebroadcast and formulates questions and predictions of coming events or plotlines.

That said however, there are too many acronyms, theories, questions /answers / Easter eggs relating back to these blogs to be circumstantial.

#74. Posted by: Neal Mindflood at May 10, 2007 1:01 PM

This show sure showcases some of the best acting ever ! Locke has got to live ! Heal boy , heal !!! I think the show would suffer if it "lost" him. It is hard to make sense out of Ben wanting Locke dead. Jealousy ? A threat to power ? Maybe he testing to see if Locke will regenerate, hence the one gubshot from Woody,...uh, I mean Benry.

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#75. Posted by: thinng at May 10, 2007 1:04 PM

I'm a little confused as to the purge of Dharma. Was that all Ben's doing?
It seemed like all the Dharma people had died from the gas inhalation when they were going about their daily routines, suddenly and abruptly.

I didn't think the other hostiles had gassed them because there were no canisters lying around and people would have been running around panicking.

This leads me to believe when Ben killed his dad it had the same effect on all the Dharmaites instantly. I think it has something to do with his voodoo dolls that Annie gave Ben and Ben's power. Any thoughts?

#76. Posted by: Matt S at May 10, 2007 1:04 PM

@65 / MAC... Can we confirm or deny the 815 flight attendant being on the Dharma Welcome Wagon? That would seem to be a HUGE development if so, hmmmm?

#77. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 1:06 PM

@BunnyLover/34 "Ben says to Richard... "It's my birthday." Then sarcastically Ben says "You do remember birthdays don't you?" That right there made me think, Richard doesn't have or celebrate birthdays anymore because he doesn't age. hummmm...?"

Interesting thought and good catch. We know that there is some tension between Ben and Richard so another way to look at that statement would be as a threat from Ben. What happened to Ben's father when he forgot birthdays?

#78. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 1:10 PM

@64/Kate/Mac for Flight Attendant comment. oops

#79. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 1:11 PM

As far as Locke's gunshot wound is concerend, I think the location was carefully chosen by the writers...

It was just left of the midline in the epigastrium, near the course of the Abdominal aorta. Now if the Aorta was hit, that would generally be a rapidly fatal wound.

But if the Aorta was missed, the only vital organ nearby is the stomach, and while a stomach wound is bad, it could be survivable.

And Locke did not spit up any blood so a stomach wound may not have occured.

So who knows...maybe he'll survive. I think he will.
Of course

#80. Posted by: usually Lurkin at May 10, 2007 1:11 PM

Thanks Mac, great review as always!

So...obviously Jack Sparrow's pirate ship ended up on the island, & Richard "Eyeliner" Alpert is his descendent. Also, Dharma makes a great hair dye in black that Richard gets in bulk.

BIG plot hole: How did Juliet know what was on the other side of the tape? Locke had stolen it from Ben's portable dresser & given it directly to Sawyer. So was Juliet just guessing what would be on the tape? Did she figure that the fact of her telling the Lostaways about the tape would give her enough credibility to avoid being burnt at the stake? (Sorry Juliet, you're no Joan of Arc.) Where did Juliet & Jack go after Kate spilled the beans? Both of them—especially Juliet—looked rather worse for wear when they came upon the Lostaways' town meeting. And Mac is right—who made Jack General Patton?

While it would be a genuine shock to have Locke be dead for real, I'm not really expecting that to be the case. I'm thinking that Danielle happens by & hauls Locke out of the pit (hopefully she sets the dynamite down carefully before doing so).

Speculation re Richard & Ben's relationship: Perhaps Richard could be viewed as an Obi-wan type. Ben was Luke Skywalker...but he went over to the Dark Side rather than becoming a Jedi. Richard has secretly been looking for a real Luke & thinks Locke might be it. Richard & Juliet might have been in together on the videotape she showed Jack when he was still in the dolphin cage.

Trivial note: I was surprised that the combination Young Ben used to turn off the SDF wasn't a group of "The Numbers."

#81. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at May 10, 2007 1:13 PM

I don't understand why Jacob being invisible means this show has jumped the shark. Isn't this development EXACTLY the kind of thing that we all love about Lost? Personally, the black smoke monster is the reason I started watching Lost to begin with. In fact, the first episode I ever saw was the one where Locke takes Boone into the woods, clocks him over the head, and rubs hallucinagenic goo into his cracked dome.

There's so many supernatural/sci-fi elements to the show, so why is this one so frowned upon? Personally, I think it would be WAY less satisfying if everything could be explained by science/math/medicine--all that boring stuff that lead me to becoming an English major.

Jump the shark my bum. This was the complete opposite. What would you call that, anyway? Killing the shark? Going through the shark? Sitting on the kitten?

#82. Posted by: The Face at May 10, 2007 1:14 PM

mac, great review and thanks for the link to the picture of Jacob on He definitely has a full head of hair, and it looks like a ruffled shirt, like other posters mentioned. So, how does this all tie in to the Black Rock?
I was wondering if Danielle Rousseau could end up being Annie... probably not, but, would be cool.
Also, SPOILER ALERT*******
On EW, the producers say Jacob is hugely important to the mythology/storyline, as much so as the Emperor was to Star Wars. Wow! So, is Jacob driving this whole thing? Or, is he kept prisoner by the circle of powder???

#83. Posted by: lost chao at May 10, 2007 1:14 PM

I still think there is no "Jacob". It is probably that Benry , like Neo (ala The Matrix) "has some skills".
This episode had my eyes bleeding from avoiding blinking.

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#84. Posted by: thinng at May 10, 2007 1:14 PM

So there's one question that's just been eating me up ...
What's up with Ben and the Bunnies ?! (They can't be called rabbits. Alliteratively, Thematically, it's inexcusable) Was this the same bunny that he used to Con Sawyer ? A descendant from that bunny blood line ? Was the Bunny named Jacob ?

On a much more serious note ...
I don't see why so many are ready to get bent out of shape about Jacob being invisible. So many posters have already pointed out that plenty of Losties have found an 'Invisible Man ... or Horse' . So that shouldn't be a shock. What should be a shock is that this is the first time two people have seen the 'SAME' thing.
Can't think of anything else that hasn't been posted.


#85. Posted by: trexl at May 10, 2007 1:15 PM

Jacob is the devil... he seems to enjoy the darkness "Lord of Darkness".

"God loves you as he once loved Jacob" Jacob is a fallen angel.

Ben somehow won a game of Battleship with the devil and now has imprisoned him.

"It's a little hot for heaven." - Daddy Locke.

#86. Posted by: Gitmo at May 10, 2007 1:23 PM

I have not read the reviews yet but wanted to say that I freeze framed the scene with Jacob after getting a glimpse of something in the chair. After Jacob pushes Ben away from the chair into the wall and the camera moves back to the chair, there is definitely a man sitting there. It is dark and shadowy but I could make out that he is white, has long hair and perhaps a beard. No smoke or ashes. See for yourself.

#87. Posted by: BEMH at May 10, 2007 1:24 PM

Re: Cindy -- if folks are referring to the woman with the lei (Cassy, the "Gemologist"), then I don't think that's Cindy. It *could* be. The actresses certainly look a lot alike. I'll dig around and see what I can find.

#88. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 1:24 PM

I really think that Ben eventually married Annie, and she did get pregnant and die. Remember when we were first introduced to Juliet, and she was in the OR with a bloody and dying woman? Someone offered to go tell Ben, and at one point he was reminding Juliet "It was what she wanted." Definitely Anakin-like here!

#89. Posted by: LisaLizzie at May 10, 2007 1:24 PM

Locke can't be dead because every episode where someone has been killed has started with a mega close up of that person's eye!

#90. Posted by: gables79 at May 10, 2007 1:28 PM

I agree with the last few commentors, all of a sudden, NOW everyone is annoyed at something being mystical? Black smoke that you can see through, can toss eko around, but now that Jacob cannot be seen right away, it's jumped the shark? That's not even including about 10 different visions people have seen (horse/daddies/insane asylum mates).

To me these aren't die-hard fans, we're finally getting answers, but some people will just never be happy.

As far as Jacob goes, obviously he holds some power in this island and Ben has manipulated his way into controlling it. Perhaps that's why Richard pretends to follow, cause he has to?

Course you'd think they would just kill Ben themselves, but another underlying plot seems to be getting other people to kill for you (Locke/father, Shannon's death, Michael doing his killings).

Have we actually seen an other personally kill outside of them killing each other (patchy/klu). And we don't know what really happend with the tallies, maybe they are captive or they sacrificed them to smokey.

Even Ben didn't outright kill Locke. nor would juliet outright kill Ben.

Maybe i'm onto something, or maybe i'm just confused like everyone else :)


#91. Posted by: Slightly Visible Jacob at May 10, 2007 1:28 PM

I think that the island shaking during the volcano experiment, and Jacob's hut shaking, are from the same source... smokey. And smokey is the only form Jacob can take outside of his hut while he is imprisoned there by the circle of ash.

And we've already seen that smokey and Locke have a special bond, so smokey is likely to rescue Locke.

#92. Posted by: Buck41 at May 10, 2007 1:28 PM

great review as always mac!

my concern/question is why would locke turn his back on ben? knowing what he knows about ben and the others he definitely should have known better. surely he doesnt trust ben or anyone else, even if he pretended to to make them think he did, why did he turn his back on ben?

i agree with the person who mentioned ben not shooting locke twice. i would have if i were in ben's shoes and knowing what i know about the island and locke's ability to heal.

exciting episode till they got to jacob's house. wierd. but i cant wait till the season finale!!!

holla :)

#93. Posted by: tiffani at May 10, 2007 1:33 PM

---------Personally, I don't think that Ben can 'hear' or communicate with Jacob anymore...he might have been able to at one time. Otherwise, he would have heard what Jacob said to Locke...that's why Ben tried to kill Locke...Ben has LOST his communion with Jacob...Communion...funny choice of words Ben used...

#94. Posted by: J-Rod at May 10, 2007 1:43 PM

@ #91 - SVJ - Juliet shot and killed an Other, remember? When he was chasing Sawyer and Kate. I don't remember his name right now, but she did outright shoot him. Then again, she was the only one "branded" too, huh?

Great episode. I used to be into reading the spoilers ahead of time, knowing what the show was about before Wednesday night actually got here, but knowing how good it is getting, I couldn't do it. I'm very happy I didn't check out the spoilers for last night's epi. The experience is much better when you don't know what is actually coming.

Anybody else wonder how Roger Workman's van got turned over and back in the jungle where Hurley found it? I know the Losties found it CLOSE to the spot it was parked, but why was it turned over and a hundred feet away? I don't believe a storm there would have turned it over, then again, maybe Lost Island has horrible hurricanes and I'm just searching for a meaningless answer.

I've got it, I focus on the wrong things! That's like me wondering why Candle's left arm still appeared to be a prosthetic.

Anybody else think I'm losing it?

#95. Posted by: ANTP? at May 10, 2007 1:45 PM

Re #87 or BEMH.

Do us a favor and read the post before you post. It is annoying to read something that was talked about since the 2nd post. Because of course the first one is usually some writing "First"

#96. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at May 10, 2007 1:45 PM

Locke has to be the world's greatest fly through the air and land on his back actor in history.

#97. Posted by: lostsox at May 10, 2007 1:45 PM

Since Locke apparently stole the tape before it could be delivered to Juliette, how did Juliette know what was on the other side of the tape?

#98. Posted by: Barb at May 10, 2007 1:47 PM

Since Locke apparently stole the tape before it could be delivered to Juliette, how did Juliette know what was on the other side of the tape?

#99. Posted by: Barb at May 10, 2007 1:47 PM

wrote down my thought at 11:11pm -

Very cool episode...but I wish they broke it up into 3 eps.

#100. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 1:48 PM

I agree with the "Rousseau saves Locke" theory -- she's probably been following him from the Black Rock after seeing him whittling with that big knife.

I think Locke will be paralyzed again from the gunshot wound -- at least for a while. Until the island demands a sacrifice (a "Ben-kabob"?) and then heals him...

I think the Hostiles are as old as -- and landed on the island via -- the Black Rock. That "Hostile Chic" look is actually 17th Century Pirate fashion. And if they ARE pirate ghosts, that would explain how Mikhail came back to life... he's already dead.

Maybe if they are ALL dead (including the Losties), as Locke's dad theorized, that is why nobody can see/visit Jacob except Ben (who came to the island alive?). If this is true, than Naomi should also be able to see Jacob.

Finally, I started thinking about lepers (partly because Richard Alpert's name falsely started me down that path), and that Hawaii, also an island in the Pacific, was used to dump lepers. Maybe this is where some of the "natives" came from? And they were healed by the island?

#101. Posted by: Chad at May 10, 2007 1:49 PM

@ 97, great post and good point.

Who here thinks we can beat the number of posts from last week's episode. I know we were up over 400. We're already at 100 today, and it has just started.

#102. Posted by: ANTP? at May 10, 2007 1:49 PM

Has anyone considered that Rousseau could be Annie? Alex is Ben & Annie's child. It seems to make sense.

#103. Posted by: bhelton at May 10, 2007 1:50 PM

Juliette didn't know *exactly* what was on the other side of the tape... she just knew that was where Ben had left his "instructions". In the beginning of the episode Ben was telling Eyeliner that he'd left his instructions for Juliette on the tape.

#104. Posted by: Buck41 at May 10, 2007 1:52 PM

I think that the island won't just magically heal Locke's wound. It does seem to have healing properties dealing with Rose and Locke. However, Ana Lucia, Libby, Shannon and various Others have died from gunshot wounds. I think that his best chance is that the bullet landed where his kidney should have been and that Jack will find him time.

@94 J-Rod: I think that you are right on with the thought that Ben might not be able to hear Jacob or the island anymore. Maybe that is why Ben got cancer even though he claimed that no on the island gets cancer - because the island/Jacob might have turned its back on him.

#105. Posted by: ac at May 10, 2007 1:53 PM

@103 - Rousseau = French, and her first name is Danielle.

#106. Posted by: ANTP? at May 10, 2007 1:53 PM

@97/lostsox - Totally made me LOL.
@49/Shikotee - Someone else posted this "answer" above, but I'm too lazy to go find it. Since I jotted down your question, thought I'd give you MHO about why Alex gave Locke the gun. I believe Ben was planning on killing Locke all along and got Alex to give Locke a gun as his "birthday present" cause he knew Locke would at some point put his guard down and Ben could take it. Just the way Alex said "Happy B-day" to Ben made me think something was up.
Then again... what the heck do I know...
I am, and always will be, a BunnyLover.

#107. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 1:54 PM

No one has mentioned about when did Alex become Ben's daughter? We now have some history/time line of Ben. Did they take her after the purge?

#108. Posted by: BEMH at May 10, 2007 1:56 PM

mmh not sure about annie being rousseau. i have no reason to doubt rousseau. We havnt been led to believe that she has lied or indeed does lie. there is no indication. is there?

#109. Posted by: Andie at May 10, 2007 1:56 PM

@106 You are assuming that Rousseau is telling the truth. She is a very shady character who is up to something that will play out later.

#110. Posted by: bhelton at May 10, 2007 1:58 PM


"i agree with the person who mentioned ben not shooting locke twice. i would have if i were in ben's shoes and knowing what i know about the island and locke's ability to heal."

Who on the island has survived a gunshot wound? More importantly, who has survived as gunshot wound without medical assistance? Most gunshot wounds have resulted in death, n'est pas?

What I am curious about is how Ben plans on explaining what happened to Locke.

My spider senses are tingling!

Methinks Bens action against Locke will make the others turn on Ben. As we have seen, Richard has secretly worked behind Ben's back (ie giving Locke info on Sawyer) - perhaps he will be the one who will find and help Locke? The Others will find out that Ben shot Locke out of jealousy, and perhaps this will mark the end of Ben, and start the rule of Locke?

I doubt they will kill Ben - too much rich backstory still to tell. Then again, he could simply be used in other people's backstories....

#111. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 2:02 PM

two things:
@volcano When Roger was talking to Goodspeed he said that while he was out driving around there was an explosion and then shooting. If Goodspeed was right about it being an explosion, that would explain the shaking during the volcano class, which would mean that there probably wasn't a volcanic tremor. That would still leave the question about what caused the explosion, but it's something...
@ash I like the idea that the ash could be there to keep Jacob in (actually, I like that idea a lot), but my first impression was that it was gun powder. Is Ben/Rosseau/Mikhail/someone else planning on blowing up Jacob's home?

#112. Posted by: kaytied at May 10, 2007 2:02 PM

Well, for all of you that had complained about Locke not fighting his own battles, last night we got to see the new and improved "daddy is dead" Locke squarely kicking Mikhail's, um, butt. Hopefully he heals quickly and it wasn't the last time we see him in action!

A few things Ben says in the episode really intrigued me. The whole "You do remeber birthdays, don't you Richard" has me on the side that Richard doesn't age. True, it could be a threat "Those who forget my birthday must die!", but I don't think Richard is scared of Ben. Just MHO.

Ben also refers to the "Hostiles" as the "Island's original inhabitants". How original are we talking here? Just here before Dharma, or ALWAYS been here original?

Ben says he was born on the island (an admitted lie at this point) and then goes on to say he brought most of the other people there to the island. Did he bring the Flight 815ers to the island as well? If Cindy was an Other all along, did she go to Sydney and make sure the plane crashed on the Island somehow as part of the flight crew?

Ben seems upset that the tape recorder is missing (or is he faking it cause he knew Locke was gonna take it?) and about the resuce attempt (Naomi appears not to be an Other, thank you very much!), so is he losing control or just trying to make it look like everyone else is incompetent?

Finally, I got the impression from his conversation at the grave that Ben might not have been the only one spared in the purge. Perhaps one or two other Dharm drones saw which side was gonna win and switched allegiences as well.

I thought for a second I saw Michael in the Other's camp when Locke and Ben headed out to see Jacob (sitting near Tom), but when rewatching it it clearly was a different black guy.

Great review Mac, and great thoughts from everyone on what has to be the most interesting Lost in a long time!

#113. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 10, 2007 2:03 PM

@ MAC:

The blonde teacher (teaching about the volcanos) ....her name tag on the uniform said Olivia...

Isn't that the name of the blonde woman who they called the Sherriff? The one who sat in judgment of Juliette after she killed Danny and branded her with that mark on her back?

Could that be the same woman...did she flip sides too?

#114. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 10, 2007 2:03 PM

re: Rousseau - I think the resident crazy French chick is planning an attack on the hostiles in order to steal back her duaghter, Alex, from Ben. There hasn't been any indication that Rousseau's telling of how she got to the island and recent history is false. Unlike Ben and any number of other characters, she has no reason to lie about her past.

#115. Posted by: Josh at May 10, 2007 2:04 PM

Did anyone else see Cassidy? As Ben and Locke were walking out of the camp to go see Jacob, it looked like Cassidy in the background behind Richard and Tom. That'd be coolio.

#116. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 2:04 PM

Quick?? Can someone answer? When we first met Juliet and the others there was a woman who seemed to be jealous of Juliet. Can anyone remember her name.

#117. Posted by: BigNameJames at May 10, 2007 2:04 PM

I was just thinking of Rosseau back in season one when she took Claire's baby. There was something about black smoke and that there was also black smoke when her baby was taken. Maybe the black smoke has something to do with the volcano. Like the teacher's experiment by pouring water inside to have a chemical reaction and the how Annie or one of the kids said, "just like our volcano." Probably just a silly thought...

#118. Posted by: ac at May 10, 2007 2:05 PM

ANTP - Good point Juliet did shoot one of the others, maybe that factors into her not being an other? I guess the more I think about it, the more I cannot remember.

Also whoever brought up the point that Ben cannot hear jacob is a really good.

Either two things:

1) Ben is playing dumb, but it didn't seem like it, since he shot locke and was emphatic about it

2) Ben is losing his powers on the island, as Locke indicated to him on why he wasn't healing

Either way last night's show has me still pumped up today for Mac's awesome revies

#119. Posted by: Slightly Visible Jacob at May 10, 2007 2:06 PM


The only other thing that puzzled me is at what age Ben lost his eyelashes...

#120. Posted by: Three men and a baby... I counted Hugo twice at May 10, 2007 2:06 PM

@silly girl. They're two different women from what I can tell.

#121. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 2:10 PM

Reading some of the above (see? it does pay to read before posting) got me thinking...what if the Black rock slave/prison ship was like the HMS Bounty? Just a bunch of happy-go-lucky folks headed out to find their own little piece of South Seas heaven.

If the ship crashed onto the island (tsunami maybe?) and all the crew were marooned on the island and the island has some mysterious longevity properties, then Richard and the "Hostiles" could be two hundred years old, and they would certainly pre-date Dharma.

Ben's comment to Richard "You remember birthdays..." would make much more sense.

#122. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 10, 2007 2:12 PM



#123. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 10, 2007 2:13 PM

@AC - re: island healing
Exactly - I think Locke will need help! Naturally, he is one lucky S.O.B., so the bullet will have gone somewhere none lethal!

@BunnyLover - re: Alex + Gun

Not sure if I buy into Alex and Ben plotting this in advance. Why give Locke the gun at all? Why wouldn't Ben just have it concealed? If anything, it seems like Alex supsects that Ben would be up to no-good, and is trying to help Locke defend himself.

Of all people, she is very well aware of how manipulative, deceiving, jealous Ben can be. My guess is that Alex does not trust Ben.

Keep in mind - Ben has told her that her mom is dead, and Sayid has dropped the hint that this is not the case. Couple that with the crap her boyfriend has been put through....

#124. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 2:13 PM

@kaytied #112

i totally thought it was gunpowder too, i like the ash idea, but it seemed too coarse

also, did anyone see that picture/painting in jacob's shack that Locke looked at when they first walked in? what was it of?

i agree that Ben is jealous/upset that Locke heard Jacob. Jacob previously "only talked to" Ben.
He is afraid Locke will take his position as omniscient island leader.

#125. Posted by: kk at May 10, 2007 2:15 PM

I agree with a previous poster that Ben is "responsible" for the island women dying at the 7 month mark, just like his mom. (that Magic Box thing, thinking it and it will happen.) I think he's probably aware of his mystical accidental responsibility, which is why he's so determined to stop it by any means. The "wishes" clearly have an uncontrollable life of their own once they're out of the box.

Also, since the Hostiles are the (maybe)original island inhabitants and seemingly don't age, don't you think Dharma knows this and are partly on the island to study them? (Didn't the Dharma website have a section on longevity/fountain of youth that they were really into?) I'd be a little PO'ed too if some swarm of hippy scientists invaded my peaceful magical home and tried to run experiments and study me and my family.

Not a far stretch to imagine Richard Alpert the captain/crewman of a slave ship, either. He spoke perfect English and didn't appear "native" in any traditional sense, even his clothes seemed to be that of a Black Rock contemporary. Guess we'll have to wait a few more years for the answer to that one.

#126. Posted by: ab at May 10, 2007 2:15 PM

Thanks Mac, as always.

There was a bit of a discrepancy I noticed in the Jacob cabin scene. When Jacob starts his hissy fit the lamp Ben brought in with him falls to the floor and smashes, lighting the floor on fire. After Locke escapes, Ben walks out with the intact lantern and places it back on the hook outside the cabin door. Meanwhile, there is no sign of any fire inside the cabin behind Ben as he closes the door. Is this merely a blooper or should we take this to mean that Jacob's fit of anger was more in Locke's imagination than anything?

I will also join the chorus:

WHTA: What Happened to Annie?
ANTPOV: Anyone Notice the Painting of Vincent

One "other" thing (sorry): Why does everyone assume that Ben is telling the truth about Alex being his biological daughter? Remember that Ben = Liar.

#127. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 10, 2007 2:16 PM

@silly girl.... But the more I think about it, what do I know? Definitely two different actresses. You'd think they'd use the same actress with different age appropriate make-up if it was to be young & older Olivia. Maybe, Interesting...

#128. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 2:16 PM

@bcre8ve: Actually Sawyer saw the horse, Dave was in Hurley's head (remember the photo of him with his arm around the empty chair), Sayid cat-?. Only Jack (dad), Eko (brother/smokie?), and Ben (mom) have confirmed sightings that I remember.

I think Danielle and/or Alex will save Locke. They are both sneaky tailers (not Tailies) and the gunshot would bring one or both especially Alex since she tried to arm Locke before leaving. What a touching reunion that will be!

Could Dharma have made a deal with the New Dharmites to continue the project after they took over? That would explain the continued food drops. Presumably the purple sky ruined that because there is no way to find the island. Maybe Richard was telling Locke the truth about the rest being fed up with Ben's leadership. Evidence-Tom and Richard let Locke pound Mikhail who was a leftover original Dharma. They didn't move an inch when Ben told then to stop the beatdown. Also they all look expectantly when Locke challenges Ben.

Annie is probably dead in the gas attack but Ben remembers her as the only person to love him so he packs the dolls as link to her. He thought she would spill the beans if he tried to save her from the Hostile attack.

There are at least 16 Portlands in the US including Texas, Florida, and throughout the midwest where a 70 degree day would be welcome and entice people to get outside and roll the top down.

The ash is from the volcano which was alluded in the schoolyard not voodoo or magic. Jacob's Hut is probably on the dormant volcano.

Could Danielle and Richard be part of the same science team? It would explain the love child between her and Ben but I think the timeline is way off. It also would explain Richard and Danielle being good fighters and Richard's want to get back to science.

Final note: I guess Lazlo's prize winnings didn't go as far as he had hoped!

#129. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at May 10, 2007 2:16 PM

So, the "hostiles" have gas masks but can't find a decent clothing store or shoes ? Sheesh,... "I'm on the road to Shambala"

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#130. Posted by: thinng at May 10, 2007 2:18 PM

I was thinking along the lines also that you don't really age on the island which would explain Richard, but that is easily shot down by Ben obviously aging.

Also, if the island heals Locke, why didn't it heal Shannon, and everyone else killed?

#131. Posted by: Michael at May 10, 2007 2:19 PM

@ PiecesofArtz/#131: Thank you for referring to Roger Work Man's true defining role in film...Lazlo! Lazlo destroys Uncle Rico in all formats!

#132. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 2:22 PM

There was a picture of a dog in a frame. Absolutely not Vincent, this dog had a large terrier look ~ perhaps this is who Old Smokie used to be? And yes there was a man sitting in the chair who looked nothing like Locke.

All in all - I inhaled more air this episode than in any other so far!

#133. Posted by: Bobbi at May 10, 2007 2:22 PM

Re: hostiles and gas masks - If I remember correctly, the Arrow station that the Tailies used as a base of operations was a possible supply shed/house. The hostiles could have ransacked any number of Dharma store houses in their war against Dharma, thus procuring gas masks, gas grenades and guns.

#134. Posted by: Josh at May 10, 2007 2:22 PM


You just cracked me up. Maybe if they go dig out by the old VW van they will find the RV and the rest of Lazlo's fabulous prizes.

#135. Posted by: ac at May 10, 2007 2:23 PM

Why do people keep trying to figure out when Ben and Danielle Russeau had sex? We have never been given any reason to believe Ben is Alex's biological father, in fact all clues point to the opposite...

I think Alex was trying to warn Locke ("poor, gullible Locke" didn't die with Daddy) when she gave him the gun. She says something like "You're going to need this if you're going to see Jacob". I don't think she meant that Jacob is invisbile unless you haev a gun, or that you'll need to shoot Jacob. I think she meant Ben is gonna shoot you, but our boy Locke ain't so quick on the uptake sometimes. She's pretty po'd at Ben right now, what with Carl being tortured (and threatened with execution) and Sayid dropping the mommy bomb on her. I thik she'll come running at hearing the gun shot, only to be disappointed at which guy ended up in the pit.

#136. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 10, 2007 2:24 PM

The young Ben and Alpert storyline has opened up a can of worms:
Chronology of the groups on the island:
1. Pagans: ruins and four toed statue
2. Pirates: Black Rock found in jungle
3. Military: the configuration and construction of hatches, communications, etc.
4. Dharma: research subcontractor whose compound looks newer than stations/hatches
5. Rousseau's science crew, shipwrecked
6. Henry Gale, balloonist, crash landing; killed and buried near crash site
7. Desmond, shipwrecked
8. Flight 815, plane crashed.
Interaction between groups:
Pagans and Pirates: unknown, but appears pagan civilization died off
Military and Dharma: appear to have co-existed for some time (work men running supplies to the stations) At some time, Military pulled out leaving Radz, Kelvin and Patchy or others behind to work with Dharma researchers.
Rousseau and Dharma: It is assumed that Rousseau believes that Dharma is to blame for the death of her team and the taking away of her child
Desmond and Dharma: Dharma knew of Des because of the cameras in the hatch, and was seen only as Radz/Kelvin's replacement. Don't think Des was ever asked to join Dharma because Kelvin kept him in the hatch with the toxic suit con.
Losties and Dharma: Ben has immediate hostility toward the crash by sending spies into the survivors camps; known actually killing by both sides.
Where does Alpert's rebels purge fit in?
First theorum: Alpert is the descendant of the pagan-pirate lineage, who took over the unseen hatches, got military bio & conventional weapons, and started a guerilla war to rid the island of the Dharma people. Alpert is the last pagan priest who can communicate with the island spirits (like Smokey)
Second theorum: Alpert was part of the military project which was abandoned/taken over by Dharma, and had a revenge plot to regain control of his island.
Third theorum: Alpert was part of the Dharma group, but became a negative voice in the direction of the group's research that he and his followers were banished to the jungle.
Fourth theorum: Alpert and his men were part of Rousseau's science team who did not die as Rousseau says (or maybe she classifies them as being dead in her mind because they joined Dharma's unethical research)
Fifth theorum: Alpert and his men are competitors to Dharma and literally pulled off a "hostile" take over of the Dharma research and facilities. But they are now ticked that Ben is not concentrating their resources on what Alpert believes is more important research (the island's "special properties") than fertility experiments. Alpert was looking to Locke to create a second hostile take over of Dharma.

#137. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2007 2:25 PM

In regard to the food drops:

-------------POTENTIAL SPOILER-------------

There is a video clip that is part of the Lost Experience game where Alvar Hanso says that the food drops would continue in "perpetuity". These drops are probably scheduled regularly. If for whatever reason you need an extra drop, the Flame station would make the request (that was one of the options Dr. Marvin Candle gave in "Enter 77" when Locke was on the computer).

-------------------END SPOILER------------

#138. Posted by: Alex ( Not Rousseau) at May 10, 2007 2:28 PM

Can anyone help out the internet-challenged, i.e. ME! I can't ever get to these tinyurls and I'd love to catch a glimpse of the infamous Jacob. Thanks!

#139. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 2:28 PM

Was the side-effect of the Hatch and the Numbers: Eternal Life? Or, Premature Birth? Unnatural healing? Or all of the above?

And now that the hatch has blown, will everyone start getting older? Can babies be born? Are the healing powers gone?

#140. Posted by: Chad at May 10, 2007 2:31 PM

@129/Alex (Not Rousseau),

Jacob's cabin = Yoda's wit, "All that's in there is what you take with you."

As for the aging vs. not aging, that could easily be explained away by having to eat native foods, and not Dharma Chic'n Nuggets and Dharma Flakes and Dharma Beer and Dharma-sicles...

Ben's never truly "gone native" like Richard or Locke or Rousseau; therefore, he ages where others do not.


#141. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 10, 2007 2:32 PM

...just reviewed my dvd recording of last night's episode and there is definitley a guy with long hair sitting in the chair. He seems to be pretty calm for all the chaos that is whipping around the room.

we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#142. Posted by: thinng at May 10, 2007 2:33 PM

@becr8tive and en provence....I stand corrected...seems your Dharma/Hostiles theory from last week was right on! Kudos to you!

What if Ben and Juliet are brother and sister? Then would Locke be related to Juliet if he is related to Ben?

@barb...great call on how Juliet knew what was on the other side of the tape...still not sure if we should trust her...

#143. Posted by: VIkki at May 10, 2007 2:33 PM

1. Maybe Ben means he was born in a spiritual sense on the Island. Like born again Christians...I think he said "born to this island, of this island"? Not necessarily ON the island.
2. Jack and Juliet went back to Benslvania to grab gas masks..People that was a HUGE easter egg, suprised no one mentioned it..
3. Did the gun Benny shot locke with look like a prop from Pirates of the Carribean? OLd looking Not like the one Alex gave Locke..more modern
4. Alpert gave the tape recorder to Locke b.c. he knew locke would get sawyer to kill his dad and give the recorder to sawyer..Maybe richard is in on everything with Juliet unless he is looking to double cross her.

#144. Posted by: Use the Schwartz at May 10, 2007 2:34 PM

@MattDC (9): I went right into Jacob's cabin believing Ben was going to tell Locke that they all thought John might be Jacob / Messianic figure come to lead the Others toward a better future. Now I am not so sure... I think Locke might have a future role to play, but honestly, now I don't know what to think about Jacob. Only that he freaked me out when he spoke!

@Jay (32) / bcre8ve (33):
I like your thoughts regarding the Hostiles taking over the Dharma Initiative, echoes leanings I have had in the past. Assuming the 4pm assassination conspiracy only took place in the one VW van and in Bennsylvania, that would have left Dharma people manning the other stations, including the Pearl (where the attack could have been observed) and the Flame (where Hanso could have been warned) and those on Alcatraz. These survivors were either killed later, killed at the same time (unlikely), or joined forces with the Hostiles. My guess is they joined up, either willingly or by coercion.

I think Hanso knows and continues to fund/supply the Hostiles because of perceived potential and promises by Ben. Why -- which leads me to my next point...

@callie (67) / LisaLizzie (89):
Put me in the "Annie died in labor" camp. I think she and Ben hooked up pre-Purge and died giving birth. He saw no hope in doing it the Dharma way and decided he needed to take the initiative on a more directed course (ala Judas). Once taking over the Dharma facilities, Ben's preoccupation with infertility leads to a shift in initiative priorities (as Alpert alluded) and a disenchantment among the people. They are looking for a new leader, aka Locke (as mentioned above).

BTW, Just got to say I love me some ALEX!!! Did anyone notice what seemed like Karl's voice warning the 815ers about his people coming in the preview???

Finally, anyone else notice Goodspeed played the guard Percy in SKing's "The Green Mile"???
MWOOR -- More Wizard of Oz references!

#145. Posted by: BELost at May 10, 2007 2:37 PM

#141 @ransomjackson

"Yoda's Cave" - And Locke brought his lightsaber! He should have learned from Luke's experience.

#146. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 10, 2007 2:37 PM

as if the smoke monster was not enough of super natural, the writers introduced an invisible man who talks using telepathy and has telekinetics capability. Allusion to X-Men? invisibility, mind highjacking, tele-kinetics, etc.

something which has been bothering me from second season is the need to push the button. Anyone with limited computer experience would know that repeated tasks are scheduled and not left to end-users to execute them at corrent time. Specially if they know the concequence of not pushing the button, they would have never planned such a manual dependant thing. And if the argument is to use this button pushing as a psychological experiment, they would have deactivated the station before they left. Even the explanation of a sudden purge doesn't explain it as Dharma keeps dropping food but haven't send any replacement people to push the button.

Back to last episode, if you look carefully at the scene where Ben is thrown to the wall, you can see two shadows. one prominent one belongs to Ben and a faint one probably from Jacob. In the scene before that, I thought I can see shadow of a hand clutching Ben's throat, but it could be a play of shadows!

#147. Posted by: aj at May 10, 2007 2:42 PM

just some thoughts from a newbie...

maybe babies can't be born because people can live forever on the island... perhaps that is the "big picture" alpert is referring to.

i think there may be something to the theory that ben was conceived on the island. maybe mom found a way off knowing about the death problem and hoping to escape it. ben made it but she didn't and then ben was brought back. roger seems to be an unwitting accomplice in this theory.

i think annie died carrying ben's baby and launched his obsession with the pregnancy thing. this goes against the "big picture" and island karma is working against his continued leadership as he takes his gang further and further off course.

#148. Posted by: equeyaya at May 10, 2007 2:47 PM

i know all those with gunshot wounds have died but locke has a "special"relationship with the island and it healed his paraylsis so maybe it would heal "his" gunshot wound, so with ben knowing all of these why even take the chance of that happening if his intentions were to kill him?

did that make sense? i hope so because i dont think i can keep explaining it to where others can understand exactly what i'm thinking and trying to say. :)

#149. Posted by: tiffani at May 10, 2007 2:48 PM

How long has Timex had Indaglo in thier watches? I noticed when Ben looked at his watch before he pulled the pin, it was a Timex with Indeglo. This would be a good indication of how long ago the purge took place. Was it befor or after Danielle crashed?
Just a thought. Last night really confused me, so I may be barking up the wrong tree.

#150. Posted by: lostdob at May 10, 2007 2:52 PM

The man in the chair looks like he's wearing a ruffled shirt, like a pirate shirt...
69. Posted by: Krys
I think the Hostiles are as old as -- and landed on the island via -- the Black Rock. That "Hostile Chic" look is actually 17th Century Pirate fashion. And if they ARE pirate ghosts, that would explain how Mikhail came back to life... he's already dead.
101. Posted by: Chad

Maybe I'm too excited about the new "Pirates of the Carribean" movie, but these two guys have made an interesting
conclusion . .

I did notice that "Jacob's" clothing had the ratty-tatty look. I mentioned in an earlier episode blob, I think, about how the "begger's clothes" on the Others looked like the 'Lost Boys" of Peter Pan's Never-Never-land.

Since mac is even wondering if we're charging off into Sci-Fi land, maybe pirate ghosts are not that unbelievable at this point!

#151. Posted by: davidrh at May 10, 2007 2:54 PM

Hey guys - was Jacob wearing a "scarf?" May explain the Cyndi fashion statement.

#152. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 2:56 PM

1.The biggest clue in the ep to me was Mr. Eyeliner asking young Ben if his mother died on the island ... almost as if he knew if she did there was hope if she had. I'm telling you we haven't seen the last of Nikki/Poopy!

2.Ben became leader of the hostiles because they believed he had a strong connection with the island AND he also was familiar with all the Dharma technology and science and he used that to manipulate them. But it seems to me the hostiles might not all be Ben followers (Patchy yelling "we had an agreement" at the flame). He was afraid of something or someone invading.

3.I think Mr. Eyliner will save Locke or Rossuea. Could he have given Locke the recorder (as he helped Locke with Sawyers file) or did Locke see Juliette and Jack go into the medical hatch and go take it? Juliette knew what was on the back of the tape so she must have gone back and listened to the new message.

4.The ash is an important clue ... just not sure what, yet. Keep Smokey from the hut?

5. Rossea has enough dynamite to blow up the the 4-toed statue.

5. Man in the chair looks like Dennis Hopper! I hope it is ... what perfect casting for this crazy show!

6. Why is Ben killing Locke because he could hear Jacob. Hasn't he been collecting "good" candidates just for this reason ... Walt being number one? And why didn't he kill Walt? Because Walt didn't connect with Jacob?

Loved this ep and glad I decided to stick with the show

#153. Posted by: Luvlost at May 10, 2007 2:58 PM

Sawyer was shot and lived (it was a shoulder injury). But it got infected (he also had an infected knife wound). Funny that no one else ever seems to get infections or live after shootings.

Shannon had asthma and the island didn't cure her. Wonder why?

Shannon and Sayid saw Backwards-talking Walt--was it Smokey?

Maybe the classroom volcano was like a voodoo doll, when it erupted (with baking soda and water), the real one started to rumble.

I think Locke is going to live. But how can Jack be General Patton in the newest uprising and also Dr. Jack as the same time?

#154. Posted by: boharpe at May 10, 2007 2:58 PM

Timex first introduced the Indiglo watches in 1992.

#155. Posted by: Matt at May 10, 2007 3:02 PM

LOVED last night's epi. I'm confused by a few things:

The ship appeared to be a slave ship to 'mine' the island. Dynamite wasn't invented until 1870. I thought slave ships were over with by then.

If the Hostiles are 'immortal' and have super strength and a huge sperm count - I wonder if the island is not letting them reproduce in return for immortality?

Let's say Jacob was the Captain of aforementioned ship and Alpert one of the sailors - would there really be that many women on that kind of vessel?

Yes, yes, I know.....

#156. Posted by: EthansGrrl at May 10, 2007 3:02 PM

Mac, GAFRAM! Too many great lines to even try to quote here...very enjoyable read.

Cindy wasn't greeting boy Ben and his daddy...she wasn't there.

Count me in on the Annie died from pregnancy theory. If Ben knew she had croaked in the purge I think they would've shown a poignant moment of him looking sorrowfully at her dead body.

I agree that Ben has never indicated that Alex is his bio-daughter...we've simply been told she's his daughter.

Ben never had relations with Crazy Danielle. Ben WAS NOT born or conceived on the Lost island. Crazy Danielle is not Annie.

My first thought upon seeing Alpert in the jungle with boy-Ben was that he doesn't age! My theory is that it's only a thing for those who actually were born on the island. Richard probably was born on the island and stopped aging once he reached adulthood. So I wonder if he ages during the short spurts that he's off the island recruiting people like Juliet?

Interesting that Jacob asked Locke for help. If Locke survives I'll bet he visits Jacob's hut quite a bit on his own.

******** SPOILER ********

Well, whether Locke dies on not- he's listed as being in the next 2 he'll be with us for at least the rest of this season in some capacity.

#157. Posted by: JoePike at May 10, 2007 3:05 PM

This episode proves that the hostiles(others) don't care about killing large amounts of people.

So this begs the question, why have they not killed all of the lost people(plane crash), looks like they wanted to recruit good candidates first, but after that, seems they have no further use, why not just kill 90% of them and keep who you want.

#158. Posted by: Michael at May 10, 2007 3:05 PM


Dynamite might have been invented in 1870 but gunpowder has been around centuries. I don't think we've seen any references to dynamite being on the pirate ship have we?

My theory on the black powder around Jacob's house is that it is gunpowder and means that Russeau is near by.

#159. Posted by: petew at May 10, 2007 3:07 PM

@Luvlost/153 - I'm not sure Juliet had ever heard the message from Ben. I think she just knew that this was how they communicate and that if Sawyer turned the tape over, he would hear Ben's next instructions.

#160. Posted by: callie at May 10, 2007 3:07 PM

#154 @boharpe
"But how can Jack be General Patton in the newest uprising and also Dr. Jack as the same time?"

Could it be that Jack feels he has some insight into the others? He was their captive for longer than Kate & Sawyer and perhaps he senses a weakness that can be exploited. His captivity may have given him a sense of entitlement too. Then again, Michael was the others' captive for a while and that turned out...not so well. At least there is the very real possibility that the Losties will actually and fully communicate with each other! Hurrah!

#161. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 10, 2007 3:08 PM

@ "R"

I went back and read Mac's review of "Stranger in a Strange Land"...The lady's name was Isabel...

Nice try thought, right??

#162. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 10, 2007 3:08 PM

Best revelation - Ben's dad is Uncle Rico.

I agree with others that Annie probably died giving birth, that is why Ben is fixated on solving that problem on the island (Or maybe he brought the problem to the only and his father wasn't too far off by blaming him for his mother's death)

I don't think Jacob is the monster. As long as he's been on the island, I don't think he would have blindly tried to push through the fence when he attacked Kate and Juliet.

I imagine that the hostiles were able to keep up impressions with Dharma's home base that nothing had happened becuase of insiders like Ben. He had plenty of time to learn how things worked while "patiently" waiting for the purge to occur. That would explain why Dharma food keeps being dropped.

Question, why can Dharma plane's fly over the island, but nothing else can without falling out of the sky?

#163. Posted by: theburg19 at May 10, 2007 3:09 PM


I just listened to the version with headphones on. I have to say that the creepy voice sounds REALLY close to Ben's voice with some effects on it.

I'm wondering about the whole Jacob vs. Ben thing. Could Jacob actually just be BEN who has constructed this 3rd person myth so that people feel that Ben is a mere link to the Leader. Not a weak leader himself?

Sort of like a Regan voice scenario from The Excorcist...

#164. Posted by: rinz at May 10, 2007 3:10 PM

@159 Petew - Definately dynamite was taken from Black Rock ship before. Ask Mr. PiecesofArtz!

#165. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 3:11 PM

@petew/159 - If it was gunpowder placed there by Rosseau, wouldn't Ben have been wondering what it was doing there?

#166. Posted by: callie at May 10, 2007 3:14 PM

I just rechecked the episode online, and there is definitely a silhouette of a man in Jacob's chair after he throws Ben. He has a stubbly beard, and is wearing some sort of brown shirt. See for yourself at 31:54 on ABC's full episode player.

#167. Posted by: randomness at May 10, 2007 3:15 PM


I was referring to Rousseau taking the unstable dynamite out of the ship when Locke was there. Could have been brought there later but seems unlikely.

I think Ethan was a Hostile as well. Maybe that's why the two were 'let' off the island.

I also think Ben is threatened by Locke. Why else shoot him?

#168. Posted by: EthansGrrl at May 10, 2007 3:16 PM

Where is Annie? I think this is an important part that will be played out in future episodes. He wouldn't have killed her with the other Dharma folks. She's important to him - she remembered his B-day.

I copied that screen cap of Jacob and worked a little bit with it in PhotoShop. The figure looks a lot like Locke - especially his forhead.

I agree with No. 144 - Ben says he was born on the island - maybe he was (in his mind) reborn that day everyone died. He became new.

And I loved Mac's saying - "When did Jack become General Patton?"

#169. Posted by: d-lost at May 10, 2007 3:22 PM

Not only is Ben threatened by Locke, but the root is straight jealosy. He can't figure out why Locke has a greater connection/communion with the island. Ben used to be the special one, now the new kid comes to the yard and it looks like Locke will be picked first over Ben in their next kickball game.

#170. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 3:25 PM

@156, you would only know this if you did the Lost Experience last summer, but Hanso continued slave trading in the Pacific long after it had been abolished in Europe and North America, so the fact that there was a slave ship with dynamite on it can be explained that way.

#171. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 10, 2007 3:27 PM

Pirates of the Caribbean (or South Seas), ABC, Mr. Toad (aka Ben)'s Wild Ride…all products of Disney Corp…or am I too cynical?

Jacob is Captain Jack Sparrow's dad (talk about daddy issues), Keith Richards!

#172. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 10, 2007 3:28 PM

Far Out Maaaannnnn!!!

We're going to the Darhma commune!

I can just see Ben and the others sitting around a campfire on the beach, sipping Boones Farm.

#173. Posted by: Sean at May 10, 2007 3:29 PM

I have just gone back and watched the scene of Ben and Dad arriving on Island. Itis Cindy (the flight attendent from #815)) who greets them with Namaste and leis. The actress is Kimberly Joseph and if it not her its her double.

Can somebody please watch the scene and confirm.

#174. Posted by: kate thornton at May 10, 2007 3:30 PM

I have just gone back and watched the scene of Ben and Dad arriving on Island. Itis Cindy (the flight attendent from #815)) who greets them with Namaste and leis. The actress is Kimberly Joseph and if it not her its her double.

Can somebody please watch the scene and confirm.

#175. Posted by: kate thornton at May 10, 2007 3:30 PM

Thanks EthansGrrl..I always thought it was gunpowder that Rousseau was taking from the ship, but you're was Dynamite.

Only other explanation outside of a writers error could be that this wasn't a ship headed to the US, but perhaps a different country that still used slavery after the US stopped the practice.

As far as Ben knowing what that ashy substance was...I don't think that scene gave us any absolute indication either way that Ben knew just exactly what Locke was looking at.

#176. Posted by: petew at May 10, 2007 3:32 PM

@The Ghost in the chair - I think we're reading far into the Jacob thing. I re-watched a couple times. I think that the room exploding could be nothing more than an old pirate ghost that doesn't like flashlights having a hissy fit. The ashes - as many have pointed out - are a voodoo barrier to keep him from wandering. The "help me" is what he says to everyone that visits.

I still think BEN IS JACOB. And Jacob is nothing more than a construct of Ben's for convenience. Born of a literary psychopathic mind - ala David Koresh.

I think Locke is dead on when he says "you made this up....You don't know anything." And Ben knows Locke is right. That is why he shot him.

The hint, that same Ben "what I didn't hear anything?" act that he used when he was catured 2nd season.

This explanation would be easy to present afterward.

I don't think Locke is dead. In fact LOCKE is the Key...

er....I mean key to the series arch.

#177. Posted by: rinz at May 10, 2007 3:40 PM

@Kate... Mac said it wasn't Cindy, but he was going to do more research on it to be sure...

#178. Posted by: R at May 10, 2007 3:42 PM

HAHA! Richard eyeliner!!! How funny! I was wondering last night if he did infact wear makeup or just has really dark eyes?? So, Im glad I know the truth!!

One question that doesn't relate to last night's ep. Where are Rose and Bernard!?!?! It's just killing me that thye just have not been seen forever!???

#179. Posted by: lostforever at May 10, 2007 3:44 PM

Anyone else think that Jacob (in the screen cap) looks worryingly like Kenny Rogers? Could this be a clue ;-) ?

The Island's in the stream
That is where we are
Nothing to believe
All beliefs are wrong
Sail away with me to another world
Where we don't spy on each other, ah-ah
From one lover to an Other, ah-ah

#180. Posted by: Danny at May 10, 2007 3:44 PM

Maybe we are going the wrong way with the slaves on Black Rock. Maybe they were not African Slaves, but a shipload of prisoners set for Australia. Australia was, after all a penal colony. The transportation of convicts to Australia was phased out by 1868. This would fit the time line a bit better, maybe the ship was shipwrecked on Losties Island.

#181. Posted by: boharpe at May 10, 2007 3:45 PM

I like the idea of the Hostiles being descendents of the Black Rock survivors, but I can't help wondering why, if that were the case, the survivors would have just left the slaves chained up in the boat. I mean, if they were still alive, you'd want people to do the hard labor and alland if they were already dead when the ship crashed, they'd be pretty ripe...I'd want to bury them.

But really, I think the most important clue we got this episode was about Ben's tumultuous relationship with bunnies!

#182. Posted by: bunnyfiend at May 10, 2007 3:50 PM

It's NOT Cindy!

#183. Posted by: BELost at May 10, 2007 3:51 PM

@180 Danny said:

>Anyone else think that Jacob (in the screen cap) looks worryingly like Kenny Rogers? Could this be a clue ;-) ?

To my earlier guesses of Michael Gross or Locke-with-hair, add Dennis Hopper, who I was thinking about but couldn't remember his name at the time.

#184. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 10, 2007 3:51 PM

@111/ Shikotee - asking who survived a gunshot wound. Sawyer survived a gunshot wound at the end of season 1. He was dragged through the forest by the Tailies and didn't get medical help for days. It didn't seem like it took him all that long to recover to full strength.

@114/Fenway Ben - the man who "looked like Michael" I believe was also on the Sub that brought Juliet. He was sitting at a table when she looked up the ladder.

What were Ben's exact words to Locke at the mass grave? Did he say "I was one OF the smart ones?" That would imply that he was not the ONLY one that switched sides to the Hostiles.

#185. Posted by: GFish at May 10, 2007 3:56 PM

Great Review!!!
A question I have on my mind is could the lack of births be due to a side effect from the gassing? I can't imagine there are too many chemicals that can cause massive bleeding/death and then have no residual problems. I know the problem seems more island wide, but if they gassed several different places at once....??

#186. Posted by: RckyMntnman at May 10, 2007 3:56 PM

Nearly 200 posts ALREADY! Un-frisking-believable.

@Cecil Rose@mrg
@and everyone else - - - uh, thought you should know about the 424th and final post from The Brig. It is as follows:

Like I said ..... bil (ButchM is last)

→ 424. Posted by: ButchM at May 10, 2007 03:49 PM

As Woody Woodpecker would say, "Heh, heh, heh, HEH, Heh."

#187. Posted by: ButchM at May 10, 2007 3:56 PM

#96 or Jon is FOUND

Settle down; I have a job.

#188. Posted by: BEMH at May 10, 2007 3:57 PM

I'm sure someone has already noted that the anagram for Namaste is "Me Satan" but I don't feel like reading 177 comments just in case

#189. Posted by: don at May 10, 2007 4:00 PM

Shouldn't Sawyer and Kate be concerned about their prospective parenthood? Jacob reminded me of HBO's Carnivale and its Management character.

#190. Posted by: PAG at May 10, 2007 4:06 PM

Does anyone else think it is possible that Ben's special relationship with the island is why no children can be born without killing both the mother and child. Just as his birth killed his mother? Do I remember correctly that no mother survived past the end of the second trimester, kinda like ben's mom dying in the 7th month of her pregnancy?

#191. Posted by: ccurchin at May 10, 2007 4:08 PM

@Chad/101 "Ben-kabob" LOL!

@et al "who has been shot on the island and lived"

Add Sayid to the list. Patchy shot him at the flame. Of course neither Sawyer nor Sayid had more than a flesh wound.

#192. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 10, 2007 4:09 PM

LOL, great review Mac. Seriously, I was roflmao. Thanks for the entertainment.

@101 Chad: Didn't Juliet also arrive to the island alive?

@99 Barb: I think Juliet was expecting there to be a response from Ben.

@96 Jon: Some of us read bottom up. :) Some have been admonished for replying to some of the earlier posts without reading further down. The convos move so fast, it's hard to wait until all posts are read before replying to any of them. :)

#193. Posted by: silkyway at May 10, 2007 4:13 PM

Okay ButchM - you win you wascally wabbit! (Even though I am the bunny...)

Anyone figure out the anogram for Horace (sp?) Goodspeed is? I'm sure they didn't come up with a gawd aweful name like that without SOME hidden meaning.

#194. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 4:14 PM

I still think that we've been given some pretty good hints that Locke = Jacob.

For instance, the line that Ben uttered to Locke before entering Jacob's house (something like, he cares for technology about as much as you do, John).

To my eyes, the screen grabs of "Jacob" look like Terry O'Quinn in hairy makeup.

THE IRONY: The Others (formerly the Hostiles ... of which, Ben was formerly of Dharma), who we were shown in last night's episode living in the jungle ... eventually they moved into the Dharma barracks. And then they started living like the Dharma scientists and utilizing the Sonic Fence. Locke touches on this when he tells Ben that having chicken in the refrigerator is cheating. And Alpert touches on this when he says to Locke that there are more important reasons to be on the island.

I originally thought Locke would die from the gunshot. But other astute viewers have pointed out the ex-kidney location of the wound, which I think is probably an important clue as to where the writers are going with this.

As others have said, I totally had an EMPIRE flashback when Alex handed the gun to Locke (Yoda: "Your weapons ... you will not need them.")

There's still not enough clues to figure this whole thing out, but I am betting on some sort of time-thing ... with Locke as we know him now being Jacob ... but stuck in some time-thing-warp.

LOL, I keep coming back to "Only fools are enslaved by time and space". I think that is an important phrase to LOST.

#195. Posted by: Matt-DC at May 10, 2007 4:17 PM

@181 boharpe said:

>Maybe we are going the wrong way with the slaves on Black Rock. Maybe they were not African Slaves, but a shipload of prisoners set for Australia.

Nice theory, but I don't think Australian deportees were shipped in chains.

#196. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 10, 2007 4:20 PM

To go along with the last post, Locke also utters the same words "Help me" in the slow, hazy sort of voice that Jacob whispered to him....but I truly doubt that Locke is Jacob since it seems Jacob's presence was there long before Locke was. Also we were told that none of the Others have ever communicated with Jacob, but certainly they have had communication/visual contact with Locke....unless, of course, Jacob is some alter ego/reality/dare I say...Clone...of Locke

Maybe I am in the minority here, but I did not think that last night's episode was that good.

And for all those of you who think Locke will die....NO WAY! He is arguably the most important character of the show and if he were to die in last night's ep, the producers would have finished him off at the end...not hav

#197. Posted by: mike at May 10, 2007 4:25 PM

I'm just waiting for Desmond/Sayid/Hurley to investigate the Hatch implosion pit and uncover the triangular doorway to the 20-cubic-mile Krell facility (AKA, The Magic Box) hidden eons ago in the old magma chamber beneath the island. 'Splains all of the odd phenomena attending brain-storms/dreams/visions by high ESPER/PSI types like Locke and Ben and Hurley and Walt...

#198. Posted by: Unhappy Camper at May 10, 2007 4:25 PM

Jacob reminded of the actor Lance Henriksen (Near Dark, Aliens & Terminator)

#199. Posted by: Jen at May 10, 2007 4:26 PM

e him being alive as the episode ended...Locke will prevail!

Sorry, my previous post was cut off

#200. Posted by: mike at May 10, 2007 4:26 PM

Good call #70 on Emily being the name of both Ben's and Locke's mother. How awesome would it be if they are brothers?

#201. Posted by: BEMH at May 10, 2007 4:36 PM

Okay, I looked up the anagram for Goodspeed and the only one that made sense was "GODS DO PEE." Huh?
I beleive the original spelling of Goodspeed, from an historical perspective of name origins, was "Gods Speed" which was a common saying long ago for the safety of travelers. Something along those lines. If you try to find the anagram for Horace Goodspeed there's like a gazillion so I didn't bother.

#202. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 4:37 PM

@200 mike said:

>e him being alive as the episode ended...Locke will prevail!

>Sorry, my previous post was cut off

Premature e-post-ulation?

#203. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 10, 2007 4:38 PM


Terry O'Quinn was also on the Chris Carter created Millenium series

#204. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 10, 2007 4:38 PM

Nah, Jacob is not a future Locke.

If that were the case, wouldn't he have said 'Help us!'...or 'Help yourself!'


#205. Posted by: JoePike at May 10, 2007 4:38 PM

The man sitting in the chair (the silhouette) is definatly Locke with hair.
locke again I mean LOOK AGAIN
remember previous episodes with him and hair it looks just like him.

#206. Posted by: abigerbang at May 10, 2007 4:41 PM

No, it's not Locke.

Yes, it IS Locke.

No, it is definitely NOT Locke.


No, he's not.

Can't wait to see this go on and on and on up to 400+ posts...

But for the record, Locke is not Jacob. And vice versa. ;o)

#207. Posted by: JoePike at May 10, 2007 4:45 PM

@206 abigerbang said:

>The man sitting in the chair (the silhouette) is definatly Locke with hair. locke again I mean LOOK AGAIN
remember previous episodes with him and hair it looks just like him.

I dunno. There's something about the forehead/nose combination that says "Michael Gross" to me. Alex. P. Keaton's dad/the survivalist in the "Tremors" movies.

#208. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 10, 2007 4:51 PM

Opinions on the mysteries of the Island.

Richard’s people are the ones with the ancient civilization (proven soon as Richard takes his shoe off and only has 4 toes). Richard (and more still around like him) do not age and have been there a long time. Richard has that calmness and dignity, but he does not want power (been there, done that). Some have said he’s from the Black Rock, but I think the slave ship was just more invaders. Rousseau’s boat, more invaders. The flight’s crash = more invaders. Things are drawn to the island--- part of the magnetic aspects of the island.

Jacob is one of Richard’s people trapped in some “magnetic place” (an old priest turned evil through the thousands of years), needs help and wants to be freed from the Island’s grips. Jacob is fighting by using some of the Island’s powers –Smoky, visions, etc., but he is trying to escape and he can communicate with only with certain special people. Whom he cannot communicate with, he can kill but only outside the fence. Now, everyone is not that special---those that have seen things, but that was just the writer’s of the show early on before they had the answers (the horse). Ben can harness some of this power (“You’ve had enough fun”), trapped him around some ash, and has used Jacob to become his own high priest of his flock along with brain washing experiments still financed by Dharma—see below) But Ben knows Jacob is very powerful and obviously Locke is a threat to all of Ben’s power over the Others. Ben was seeking out Locke the first time we saw him as Henry Gayle. Jacob must have said to Ben, “Someone has arrived who can ‘help me.’” “I will do what I can,” Ben says manipulating the trapped old fart, only knowing he must get rid of Locke eventually. Worshiping Jacob should be the main pursuit according to Richard, but Ben has always been obsessed with his pregnancy diversions.

Early Dharma started doing experiments on the Ancients as part of their save the world theme---obviously well financed for its implications. (Fountain of Youth = evil experiments, even murder—killing to see what happens) Bring on the billionaires. They started this before Ben’s arrival on the Island and that’s why it became a “hostile” situation. Some Dharma left to join the persecuted hostiles (The good guys) and had access to gas masks, etc. A 10 year struggle with some plotting from the inside. Ben fell for Anne but she and Ben’s baby die in child birth, giving him more reason to Kill All and later do all the birth experiments (and take Rousseau’s baby), so simple. Ben killed dad as I’m sure his dad said something like, “You killed your mom and now these two, you’re pathetic, you puke.” Later, after the plot to attack was in place, Sober Daddy Work Man feels a bit guilty and offers a scenic van ride (as long as there is beer). Ben became an integral part of the plot from the inside, learned to harness Jacob, gaining the hostile’s respect, and I’m sure he was a better WORK MAN than his dad, so he had certain keys, etc. So, let’s revolt and that’s why they killed all the Dharma (the ones for the experiments)---the bad guys, duhh.

Ben learned to harness Jacob in some ways, showing how powerful he was and since Ben was/is so twisted it evolved into a cult using Richard’s religion as a basis. Dharma was convinced that so many died due to a disaster and Patchy kept up the illusion (a Dharma revoltee who lost an eye in that epic struggle) until the communication station was blown up. The keep sending supplies, but don’t attempt to go to the Island as they are not immune to the disease like those who took over are.

P.S. Easter Island is closer to Florida than Oregon, the tricky part is getting the sub through the Panama Canal.

#209. Posted by: Bus Spaig at May 10, 2007 4:51 PM

Mac wrote before:

>> Mr. Eko is dead.

Locke closes Eko's eyes as Sayid, Desmond, and Nikki/Paulo look on.

"What did he say, John?" Sayid asks.

Locke looks up.

"He said ... we're next."<<<
Which leaves Desmond and Sayid left.

#210. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2007 4:58 PM

@don ~189,

Namaste is a very common Indian (east) greeting and is popularized by the spread of yoga. The word Dharma is also a common sanskrit word loosely meaning Duty, spiritual framework, etc. Namaste comes from two sanskrit words: 'nama' and te. 'nama' can mean 'to bow', 'to bend', 'to sink', etc and 'te' means you. combining the two words gives the meaning I bow before you! so reading the anagram 'Me Satan' would be really misleading. there is nothing satanic in Namaste!

#211. Posted by: aj at May 10, 2007 4:58 PM

Thanks Mac Great Review!

Daddy issues now we know even Ben had them. Yes we learned alot, but im dying to see the rest of Bens childhood as he grows into Island prodigy. Alpert must have though Ben was special, because he could see his mommy so he took little Ben in. Or did they lure him away with the illusion of his mother.

Even Jacob wants Ben out and Ben knows it why else would he try and kill Locke just to see if the island/Jacob would heal him again. Jacob ask for Lockes help im sure we wont find out why for a long time though.

What was the dirt that Locke was looking at when Ben hurried him along. Was Ben really afraid or just acting?

Mikhail why does he not travel and live with the Others. He seems to have a good relationship with the island too. I think Lockes live off the land theory is what makes the island like people.

So many new questions

#212. Posted by: Dakota at May 10, 2007 4:59 PM

At first, I thought Jacob is just a figment of Ben's imagination... and that Ben suffers and tries to suppress his dual personality...... that is until the screen capture that you all provided.. there goes my worthy theory..

Anyways... having looked at the image.. I've determined that it is NOT an older Locke. Why? Because... THE HAIR.. there's a full set of hair, if it's Locke, it's a younger version. Either that or one of the Island's power is an unlimited supply of Rogaine.

#213. Posted by: Quang at May 10, 2007 5:03 PM

@ JoePike / 207
Perhaps RNM can put the LOCKE IS JACOB debate up as his question this week therefore moving that debatable subject off this thread?
How bout it Red...Neck...Man?

#214. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 5:03 PM

@ JoePike/207
Perhaps RNM can put the LOCKE IS JACOB debate up as his question this week therefore moving that debatable subject off this thread?
How bout it Red...Neck...Man?

#215. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 10, 2007 5:04 PM

Great recap Mac - I had all the same questions you did coming out of the episode. Loved the Benry flashbacks.

My first thought was - how do Kelvin & Radzinsky play into the purge? Were they there yet? Did they just get lucky because they were in the hatch? Or did the Hostiles know that they needed someone to keep pushing the button?

The disturbing scene of all the dead Dharma bodies laying around reminded me of the old '70's Sci-Fi movie "The Andromeda Strain." The people were dead in the streets.

Goes with Mac's Soylent Green reference.

My question is how do you kill someone instantly with gas out in an open area? Roger's death I understand because he was in a confined area, but the dead guy on the park bench, how did they kill him? And was it timed that at 4:00 PM they would all die? Ben kept checking his watch like he was trying to make sure it was the right time to kill his dad.

Who kills their own dad anyway?

I wonder if the 'gassing' does have something to do with the birthing problems. Kind of like a nuclear fallout causing defects.

I love that LOST keeps making us ask questions as they answer other questions. It keeps the mind going and the imagination brewing.

#216. Posted by: GFish at May 10, 2007 5:05 PM

@mac - Annie is living in an orphanage in NYC - she may be far away, or she may be real nearby - maybe.

@The Face, #82 - Jump the shark my bum. This was the complete opposite. What would you call that, anyway? Killing the shark? Going through the shark? Sitting on the kitten?

How about "Crawl below the whale?"

@ANTP, #95 - Anybody else think I'm losing it?

That all depends - are you wearing a scarf? :>)

@lostsox - Locke has to be the world's greatest fly through the air and land on his back actor in history.

LOL - that was funny dawg. I guess he still has 8 lives left.

Hey, no way does Locke whip Patchy's behind. The friggin guy was in the Soviet military and is supposedly a bad ass. In addition to healing Locke from being a cripple, did the island also make him into a super hero? I mean he's an old dude, for crying out loud!

#217. Posted by: ButchM at May 10, 2007 5:07 PM

Mac - GRAA!!!

So Last night's episode, to me, was great - I have had many theories and this show kind of encouraged them. I'll try and keep it short.

So the OG inhabitants/Hostiles are original survivors from the Black Rock, pirates of some sort that took over the minig ship, this would explain Alpert's garb and his Jack Sparrow-esque eyeliner.

Locke is somehow Jacob - or at least it looked like Locke's profile in the chair (to me) I've heard speculation that the guy in the chair looks like a lot of people, even Vincent.

Now for my far out guesses, perhaps Locke is an old soul, or Jacob is a presence from the future. Still the connection between the two and the way they have a una-bomber hate on technology suggests something - honestly I don't know.

Locke has to live - how - dunno, I like the poster who suggested a Gandalf transformation, or perhaps he returns as Jacob. All in all though he has regained his Obi-Locke presence in Spades and this makes me happy and I pray he lives to give us more.

That's it

My favorite MACism - the stay puft theory, I never thought of that. I hope Hurley doesn't get the munchies and think of the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man, there may be a world of hurt put on the Losties.

#218. Posted by: callaway76 at May 10, 2007 5:09 PM

Could somebody please clear something up for me? I have read that Locke stole the tape recorder and that Eyeliner gave it to him. I thought Ben gave it to him and told him Juliet was at the camp gathering information. Which is it? That small bit of info is going to be key in the showdown between the Losties and The Others.

#219. Posted by: nd fan at May 10, 2007 5:13 PM

1. The newcomers at the orientation center were given vaccinations. Placebo?
2. Rousseau's mention of her colleagues getting sick could reference the Purge.
3. Patchy's Dharma wardrobe is his trophy.
4. If the Hostiles could overtake the Dharmanians so quickly, easily and efficiently, why all the prior pussy-footing around?

#220. Posted by: Rich at May 10, 2007 5:23 PM

@219nd fan - Ben told Locke what Juliet was doing (why?, I have no idea). But he didn't give Locke the tape at that point.

Richard giving Locke the tape is pure speculation, as we never saw that either.

The only thing we saw was Ben asking Richard if he delivered the tape to Juliet... which of course he did not.

#221. Posted by: GFish at May 10, 2007 5:26 PM

#219 @nd fan

"I have read that Locke stole the tape recorder and that Eyeliner gave it to him. I thought Ben gave it to him and told him Juliet was at the camp gathering information. Which is it?"

That is unclear at this time. The scene only showed Ben listening to the tape recorder as Locke walked into his tent. The next time we see the tape recorder, Locke is handing it to Sawyer. How Locke procured it has not been shown.

#222. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 10, 2007 5:26 PM

@GFish and Alex (not Rousseau)

Thanks for the explanation. I thought that I had missed something.

#223. Posted by: nd fan at May 10, 2007 5:38 PM

Why would Benry reveal secrets of his future plans to Locke if he never trusted him in the first place. It is pretty obvious that Benry is one whom plans ahead, way way ahead. Benry's plans included killing (or trying to kill)Locke, NO...... Locke managed Obi-wan Benry to take him to Jacob. Thus Benry really didn't plan on shooting Locke. Why would he confide in him???? Telling him they are invaiding Lostieville... Unless there is ulterior motive from Benry to all of this, which makes me think that this is just another of his devious plans to take over the Everything on the island. Does anyone have any thoughts on the code that little Benry uses :54439????

#224. Posted by: mapache at May 10, 2007 5:38 PM

@216 GFish wrote >>Who kills their own dad anyway?

Well, Locke got someone to kill his by proxy, and Kate killed her step-dad which almost counts.

#225. Posted by: leegull at May 10, 2007 5:40 PM

If you slow down the previews for next week it looks like Rose and Bernard are back. Bernard looks like he is shooting a rifle and Rose is to his left and Jin is to her left.

#226. Posted by: Mel at May 10, 2007 5:41 PM

The whole mass grave scene was demented. What did they do, take a vote. "Who wants to put all the dead bodies in an open pit in the middle of the jungle? Raise your hands." Talking about desensitizing yourself against some serious gore even the plane crash survivors burned the carcasses.

The hostiles (Richard Alpert’s group) were packing some serious aggression. Not one speck of extra dirt, flower or tarps covered that gruesome site.

#227. Posted by: Dana at May 10, 2007 5:52 PM

WIDSDF - why is Dharma still dropping food?

#228. Posted by: harmony at May 10, 2007 5:54 PM

At the beginning of Season 3 when Jack was in the dolphin tank there was a screencap of a little girl sitting in the corner of the cell. I don't believe it ever aired. Mac referenced it in the episode 1 comments.

Maybe that girl was little Annie who never aged a la Richard Alpert. (Doubt it).

I think I'm on board with the Annie was pregnant with Ben's child theory (either before or after the purge). It wouldn't surprise me if more than just Ben were Hostile-converts.

Do the "Others" have a name for themselves now? I'm sure they don't call themselves the Hostiles. Do they just refer to themselves as "The Good Guys"? Natives?

I can't wait for a Richard Alpert flashback. What was the island like BEFORE Dharma came?

#229. Posted by: GFish at May 10, 2007 6:02 PM

People on the island who see/communicate with dead people are "special."
That's why Ben had power over his followers; he could communicate with the dead = power over life and death; a cult figure.
The "person" in Jacob's chair was Roger.
Look at his hairstyle when he first arrives at the dock.
This is the person who Ben feared; now Roger's ghost haunts him. In order to cope with killing his father, he calls him Jacob.

#230. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2007 6:05 PM

Way back when, I think it was Mrs. Klugh that asked Michael if Walt ever appeared where he wasn't suppose to be. Maybe Jacob is just appearing like Walt did. We have to remember too that Walt made appearances and he was alive. Jack's father and Eko's brother were both dead. That's two different situations. Also, the others appear to be moving freely all over the island, that means they are outside the protection of the fence. How come that doesn't seem to worry them? Are the hostiles still around?

#231. Posted by: peb at May 10, 2007 6:20 PM

Discussion b/t Roger and Horace as 'lil Ben eavesdrops from his room:

Horace: 'Hey man, I heard you ran into a little trouble.'

Roger: 'We're driving back from THE PLANE, and we hear this huge thing I know there's a siren whaling and we're driving through the middle of a shoot-out!'

Anyone catch that? Not that the bold gives it away or anything. Roger says he was driving back from the plane...which would lead us to believe that there is another way on/off the island. Maybe as speculated, they drug the recruits, fly them in, then strap them into the submarine to make them think that that is the only way on/off the island.

#232. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 6:26 PM

Three comments:

(1) Volcanoes don't blow smoke rings. If the "ash" is volcanic ash, it's been gathered up somewhere and deposited there by humans.

(2) Juliet and Ben had a system with the tape recorder. Side A belongs to Juliet, for reporting her doings, and 80's mixes. Side B for Ben's bootleg REM and nefarious instructions. All she knew was that his instructions were on Side B.

(3) The most intriguing post here today was #127, where it was noted that the fire was out when Ben left Jacob's cabin, and that the lantern had reorganized itself into one piece. That is worth mulling over. What is up with that????

#233. Posted by: Geologeeste at May 10, 2007 6:28 PM

This is to those of you who think richard could have been on daniells boat/part of her crew.
this cant be true because fo the time lines danielle and her team arrived on the island 16 years ago and richard has been on the island since ben was a little boy which is certianly longer then 16 years so there is no way the richard could have been part of danielles team
theres my 2 cents
great recap mac and another great episode

#234. Posted by: sawyer<3 at May 10, 2007 6:28 PM

Overlooked revelation here: Alpert knows Ben was not born on the island. Makes him a huuuuuge threat to Ben Vader's authority on the island. Could be the source of their tension.
Also, I'm thinking the "You remember birthdays, don't you?" lines is being misinterpreted. Ben in't asking if he remembers people's birthdays. He's asking if remembers the concept of birthdays at all. Alpert isn't quite right.
Getting weird (not out of line considering) I think Annie may still be around. Maybe she was pregant, and Ben somehow found a way to freeze her before the pregnancy purge could kill her. Would explain his desperation to find a cure, which has always been out of character considering that he's never show any desire to help anyone, ever.

#235. Posted by: jg at May 10, 2007 6:41 PM

Tidbits from next weeks preview:

-Sayid teaching Bernard target practice with a rifle..Rose is standing right there too.

-metal ring thingy with the letters DS on it...looks like it's in Aaron's crib.

-Rousseau touching two metal connections which creates huge explosion by a big tree.

-Ends with Sayid executing what seems to be like an arm tackle on someone on the beach. Come on Sayid, you gotta wrap-up the legs...everyone knows that!

#236. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 6:42 PM

Mac, LMAO great review as always! Great episode of Lost...AGAIN. I'm amazed how the Lost team up's every single episode. When I saw Mikhail high-tailin' it to the Others camp, I was like ..oh dang, Locke's there and you're gonna just s**t. lol.. My favorite line from Mikhail "he's the one that tried to kill me" as Locke looks on like..yeah? so what? Lovin it!

Just a few things:

I live in Portland,Oregon so I'm kinda happy about all the references to Portland (and the fact that there's a character named Amelia..cause it's all about Hiking, giving birth, and riding in a convertible in late December Portland, Oregon IS possible but given the scenery in this episode, I'd say Ben's folks were not in Portland, Oregon because there would have been no leaves on the trees and less greenry. Anywho, I'm sure it was filmed in Hawaii and that's the closest they could come to a nice Portland winter day...believe me, it happens..that's how I determine if it's a panythose day or not.

Second thing: Jacob's image. I didn't catch the image at the first viewing, then stayed up until 2am to watch it online and saw it briefly. Looks like there was a cat on his shoulder too! Wasn't there a painting of a cat or dog on the wall? Some say it's a monkey on his should but I think it's a cat. (lot's of photo's at - navigate to the Lost site then click on screen caps) Which brings me to another point about imagery.. WALT!

Didn't Ms. Klugh ask Michael in "3 Minutes" if Walt had appeared someplace he wasn't supposed to be? The reason why the Others kidnapped Walt is because 1, he's a child, 2 he has special abilities. In fact, too much ability so they let him go. I wonder if he saw Jacob and Ben let him go. Can't have a kid ruining your little power trip.

and three, I agree with the person who posted that Ben no longer had a connection with Jacob and that's why he shot Locke. I also believe that Ben found some way to keep Jacob hostage in the jungle shack by using the "ashes" just like the Dharma folks use the sonic fence to keep out Smokey.

Ben...still the little weasel but I found it touching that he closed Horace's eyes...I guess he kinda liked the guy. Oh, and I DO belive that Richard, Tom and Juliett are in it together. When Juliett showed Jack the "flashcard in a film" asking him to kill Ben, she stated there were others who felt that Ben needed to go.

Richard is so FIIIOONNEE..especially in a black shirt. He's gotta wear that shirt in every episode from now on.

#237. Posted by: amelia at May 10, 2007 6:49 PM

When Locke is scanning the mass shows a close up of a dead Dharmite and it appears that there is a bullet hole in the skull. Not sure what type of toxic gas could do that....

Re: 54439
Could only find a couple things outside of trying to add/subtract/multiply/divide the numbers to get 108...

54439 is the zip code for Hannibal, WI. Who want's to do the research?

As I was googling my brains out, I ended up entering in '54439 code' of the entries referred to I typed in 'Nanotechnology 54439' and up pops an article that says -Nanotechnology in Asia Pacific 2004-. Pretty sure some people have discussed the possible origin of Smokey is nanobots or nanotechnology or something. Totally cool reading...too bad I don't understand any of it.

#238. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 6:51 PM

@ 232 RNM- I was pretty sure he was saying they were returning from "The Flame." But who knows, anyone that watched with subtitles?

#239. Posted by: Kyle at May 10, 2007 7:01 PM

@ Kyle/#239: That may be correct as well. Just listened to it again but to me is sounds like plane. Transcripts anyone?

#240. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 7:09 PM

@ RNM- So I went back and watched that scene with subtitles and it he does say plane. Not sure what it means but good catch.

#241. Posted by: Kyle at May 10, 2007 7:09 PM

@232 You are right RNM...You just beat me to the same post.

Roger clearly says to Horace that he was coming from the plane..(Isn't Closed Captioning wonderful?)

It sure seems that planes can land on the island. And a plane would make a good delivery device for weaponized gas, ala "Goldfinger" and the Fort Knox takeover scene.

#242. Posted by: Usually Lurkin' at May 10, 2007 7:10 PM

OK, my wife thinks I am wrong but I just wanted to put this out there. When "Jacob" said Help Me I could swear that it sounded like Christian Shepherd. This doesn't really make any sense but it's what I heard.

#243. Posted by: Kyle at May 10, 2007 7:15 PM

I was just looking on Lostpedia and saw the photo of the long haired Richard Alpert, and it occured to me, the Richard Alpert that was speaking with young Ben looked a lot like an older version of Boone. Talk about weird circularity. Take a look.

#244. Posted by: Gitmo at May 10, 2007 7:16 PM

afriendnebraska is got it right--- read above

#245. Posted by: bnus dffg at May 10, 2007 7:28 PM

well, closed captioning does indeed state that roger says "driving back from the plane". I just listened to the exchange about 3 times and I really think he said "driving back from the flame".

does anyone know how accurate the captioning is. i've noticed discrepencies in other shows, so maybe it was just an error or typo.

I think that if Dharma had a plane, at some point we probably would have seen a landing strip.

#246. Posted by: markthefish at May 10, 2007 7:31 PM

I figured it out.

Jacob = Joseph Adama


#247. Posted by: Six at May 10, 2007 7:36 PM

I figured it out.

Jacob = William Adama!

Jacob has many copies.
Jacob has a plan.

#248. Posted by: Six at May 10, 2007 7:37 PM

@Six: Starbuck should be Jacob. That'd make me just about the happiest person ever.

#249. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 7:42 PM

I thought Rousseau said she was pregnant when they shipwrecked?

OMG Doogie...I thought the same would be too frickin cold to be running around in a convertible in Oregon in December. However, I do like Portland, FL idea.

#250. Posted by: Juliet_Is_Evil at May 10, 2007 7:45 PM

My favorite part of the episode is when Roger throws that piece of meat at Ben and knocks him off his bike.

OMG!!! What is Jacob is Pedro??

#251. Posted by: markthefish at May 10, 2007 8:04 PM

*****Posible Spoiler******
Eveangeline Lilly said last night on Jimmy Kimel that she could not say anything but....."I am not a fan of tv but I watch Lost... and there is a reveal in the Finaly that gave me goose bumps when I read the script its really good"

#252. Posted by: Dakota at May 10, 2007 8:47 PM

Just finished watching it 2x in a row! Wow! Mostly everyone has brought up everything - nut mac I did notice your scarf reference! Seems I am making an impact somewhere!

@Jon is FOUND - am I first??

@ButchM - You are definitely last in the Brig...BMILD (ButchM Is Last Da%m$T)

I would write another idea here, but that would make this totally irrelevant email relevant, and I DON'T want that! More tomorrow when I have more time (at work..:)

#253. Posted by: meg at May 10, 2007 9:08 PM

Does anyone else think it is very interesting that Ben had to kill his own father to be accepted by the hostiles/others/dharma frauds/whoever they are AND THEN he told Locke that he would have to do the same thing to be accepted by the Others??

Here's what I'm thinking - Ben embarrassed Locke in front of everyone (when he couldn't kill his father) to prove to the rest of the Others (esp. Richard who obviously knows that Ben killed his Daddy) that Locke is not as 'special' as Ben himself.

So when Locke turns up with Daddy's body over his shoulder, Ben is feeling especially threatened. And THEN Locke hears Jacob and Ben is VERY scared that he is about to be superseded.

I agree - you definitely see Jacob's face when Locke hears 'Help me' - you don't even need to pause the frame to see it.

And interesting idea that Ben can no longer hear Jacob.

#254. Posted by: Hannah at May 10, 2007 9:18 PM

The only thing that is certain after last night is that there is still an awful lot of mind-messing going on here . . . so many strange inconsistencies, discontinuities, and general easter eggish stuff that it seems almost pointless to wonder who/what Jacob is, where Annie has gone, if Ben has lost his power, why Eyeliner-man doesn’t age . . . these are all piddley little details that won’t mean anything when the great reveal is unveiled.

Like the mass grave . . . I totally agree with everyone who posted that it is beyond the realm of sanity to leave a heap of bodies uncovered for nigh these many years. It’s not rational so of course it was done FOR EFFECT as part of the larger mind game. (But then why shoot the only witness to this grizzly concoction?) All I can say, is let’s hope that our friend Locke is only MOSTLY dead and as we all know, there’s a BIG difference between mostly dead and all dead, since mostly dead is slightly alive, with all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do . . . pack him off to Miracle Jack’s of course!

I can’t help but wonder about a few things though. Like has Sayid buried his backbone with Shannon? What happened to our favorite arse-kicking Iraqi from Seasons I and II? I can think of plenty of kick-worthy folks (can anyone say J&J?) right about now. I say we turn loose our Iraqi next week, ok folks?

And young Ben’s white rabbit trick to test the disabling code for the sonic fence . . . was anyone else hoping to see Smokey or a random polar bear smite Flopsie as he safely made it thru the barrier?

Another irksome observation: I’m sorry Dharmaites, but mixing seltzer with vinegar to illustrate a cheesy Brady Bunch volcanic eruption does not a “quality education” make. Now, if Olivia were solving a differential equation explaining null peaks that would scramble communications from the island, THEN I would believe that young Ben and his cohorts were receiving their money’s worth in school.

I bet we are going to find out who the REAL man behind the curtain is, and it will be anything but predictable.

#255. Posted by: desertrat at May 10, 2007 9:28 PM

I think Ben is orchestrating the whole Jacob thing. The "man behind the curtain" in Oz was nothing more than the man from Kansas pulling some strings and sound effects to make it *look* and though there was a Wizard. So I think Ben = Jacob and I also think Ben = schizo! He is seriously touched, and he is way threatened by Locke so he had to eliminate Locke to avoid exposure and mutiny. But I think Locke will survive.

#256. Posted by: hey boo at May 10, 2007 9:37 PM

MITTELOS = Mac Is The Talentedest Ever LOST Observer and Sage!

#257. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at May 10, 2007 9:41 PM

@251, markthefish

That is funny. They need to search the Pearl Station, certainly we can find some videotape of Roger WorkMan working on his drop-back passes.

"Hey Ben, how much you wanna bet I can throw this football over them mountains?"

#258. Posted by: Diggler at May 10, 2007 10:05 PM


I just figured it out!

How could I have been so stupid?
All the signs are clearly pointing to this!

Jacob = Mac

Mac - Do you really look live Dennis Hopper, Future Locke, Chris Kristoferson?

#259. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 10:06 PM

Lies is this how the writer are going to get around things by turning the characters into lyers. I thought Ben prided himself on his word. Who else has been lying?

#260. Posted by: Dakota at May 10, 2007 10:10 PM

But seriously....

It is interesting that the crap hit the fan when Locke turned his flashlight on. Jacob sure doesn't like that modern technology!!

And as was mentioned by a few others, when Ben leaves, the lantern (which was smashed and started a fire) is returned intact, and there is no fire. What up with that? Is the cabin itself a manifestation?

#261. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 10:15 PM

@Shikotee: Jacob's cabin doesn't get HD. There's no *way* I could live in those conditions.

@Diggler: "Hey Ben, how much you wanna bet I can throw this football over them mountains?" -- That's one of the funniest things I've ever read. You KILLED me with that.

#262. Posted by: mac at May 10, 2007 10:28 PM

So my wife and I were watching the episode last night and when Ben and Locke head of into the jungle we imagined this happening:

Ben leads lock through the jungle to a beach, and pulls back foliage to reveal Hurley!

Hurley: Dude!
Ben: Gasp
Locke: Eyebrow arches incredulously
Hurley: Dude, Ben, I didn't like summon you!
Hurley stabs forth his hand and lightning evaporates Ben.
Hurley pushes back his hair, turns to Locke-
Hurley: So, Locke, um, like you lead the others now, so like don't come back till...I...Summon you or something. Ok?

Well it was for everyone in the Hurley = Jacob camp. Still a possibility with this show.

#263. Posted by: Matt at May 10, 2007 11:06 PM

maybe i'm all washed up here, but do you remember the "other" who make a remark to jack about his tattoos? didn't she say her name was annie? just a thought, but it's been a while since that episode...

#264. Posted by: nikki c at May 10, 2007 11:09 PM

Read all 250 and here goes my turn on theories:

* Ben wanted Locke to kill his dad - in front of all the villagers - including children. May be some rights of passage thing - and you can bet the men are in no hurry to have daddy killing offspring survive ;-) birthing.

* Juliette and the "turn over the tape" was a rehearsed and planned "what if" scenario - just like the one she and Ben concocted when Juliette surmised that Kate would not fall for the "left behind too" story.

* Jacob photo does not look like Locke. Jacob has a pronounced fold across the tip of his nose - and Locke does not.

* Ben honestly did not know what Jacob said to Locke - which leads me to think Ben may not hear Jacob. Ben was also demanding and disrespectful to Jacob - not in character with "You don't go to visit Jacob, HE summons you".

* I can find no details or other references to Jack and Juliette going for gas masks (post 144)

* The van was found OUTSIDE of the protection pylons (sp) - closer to Beachies' camp. Seems a little "off" to me.

* Why doesn't Walt appear wet and whispering anymore? Was there some special connection to Shannon?

Appreciate your reviews every week, Mac.

#265. Posted by: djrmsn at May 10, 2007 11:21 PM

@mac: “Ben's right eye zings through the jungle and embeds in a thousand-year-old tree trunk.” Hee-hee. I’m a sucker for a good optical a-llusion.

Hello, everyone. If MIF (Meg is First) and BIL (ButchM is Last), I’ll just be SITMWY (Stuck in the Middle With You) and in the best of company.

Until the flash of Jacob sitting in the rocker, I was sure Ben was having a psychotic (not psychic) episode. I didn’t think he was faking for Locke. Too bad if Jacob is confined to the hillbilly cabin by the ring of ash. How funny would it be if Ben had ongoing conversations with his invisible friend, a’la Jimmy Stewart in “Harvey”? Hmm, a giant invisible rabbit? But I think Ben’s friend would be the “Donnie Darko” version.

Regarding the lantern coming out of the cabin in one piece, after it appeared to be dropped and broken and starting a fire inside: Someone can make you see things that aren’t there or don’t happen. But was it Jacob? Or was it Ben?

Good theory that Annie dies in childbirth as a catalyst for Ben’s fertility obsession.

I agree with Bus Spaig/209 that Dharma started their experiments on the natives, creating the “Hostile” situation long before Ben’s arrival. I don’t think the natives are descendants of the Black Rock crew; I think their civilization pre-dates the Black Rock by a long time (4-toed statue). But what happened to the natives before Dharma that put them in need of a leader with special powers like Ben (and now maybe Locke)? Is it just to keep Jacob “harnessed” or maybe to “channel” Jacob’s knowledge/power? But to what end?

@JoePike 205/207: Totally agree that Jacob is not Locke, and Locke is not Jacob.

@GFish/216: Totally agree with the question of gas canisters in an open air setting. Seemed unrealistic that it would be so effective.

@ButchM/217: Totally agree with the question of Locke’s new ultimate-fighter skills. I think Patchy Mikhail threw that fight.

@amelia/237: Glad to know I’m not the only one who enjoys Mr. Eyeliner. Just recently realized he was Luis on “Suddenly Susan.” Didn’t like the show, but liked him.

@desertrat/255: I also miss Sayid’s backbone. Where’s a good kick-ass hero when you need one? (Jack’s not making the grade.)

#266. Posted by: Clementine at May 10, 2007 11:29 PM


One has to wonder - did Ben really expect Locke to kill his dad? Captain mind games that he is, I suspect he brought forth that challenge believing that Locke would not go through with it.

I'm thinking and hoping that Juliette has finally decided to break away from Ben. The one thing that she clinged on was the hope of returning, and with the destruction of the sub, it doesn't seem like she has much to gain from a further aliance with Ben.

I think that Ben can hear Jacob. Does anyone have a transcript of the conversation Ben had with Jacob? It would be interesting to *guess* what Jacob was saying to him, based on his responses.

As Jacob has the ability to fix broken lanterns, extinguish fire, appear to whomever he wants, we can assume that he can let whoever he want hear him. The propoganda Ben has spread about Jacob (ie Summons) could be BS he told, so people would not try to seek an audience.

#267. Posted by: Shikotee at May 10, 2007 11:37 PM

@ nikki c/#264: Her name was Isabelle...also same chick that was 'holding court' over Juliette right before her branding. Not the same chick.

@ Clementine/#266: re: 'seeing things that aren't there'...Is it possible that the piece of fruit Locke was eating w/ a knife before they left was poisoned so he'd see stuff later? Or the ash-circle around Jacob's hut was a hallucinogenic? Locke has already caused someone to 'see crap' (Boone) by mixing stuff on the island, and he's also 'seen crap' when he did the trippin-in-tha-tent thingy.

#268. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 11, 2007 1:10 AM

-@ → 137/welh

Rousseau and her people landed @ 16yrs ago, and she claims that she killed them all.

Kelvin was in one of Sayid's flashbacks, if I'm not mistaken, that took place during the first Gulf War, so he can't have been on island prior to @1992(ish?? when did the war end?).

@ - DS - Charlie's Driveshaft ring, which, strangely, he never takes off..... NOOOOOOO!!! Not my Charlie!!! I don't think he will die, it's been put forth too often, it would be anti-climactic if he actually did bite it.

@ everyone - Just mind-blowing this week. Some answers and sooo many more questions - LOVE THIS SHOW!!

#269. Posted by: Irish at May 11, 2007 1:42 AM

Come on people, it's fairly obvious that Walt=Jacob.

Seriously, though, I think the grayish powdery substance is what Jacob uses to take his smoky form.


#270. Posted by: James at May 11, 2007 1:44 AM


Interesting thought about Locke's history with mind-tripping. Hallucinogenics would be a more conventional explanation than my original thought that Ben was using some psychic ability.

The fruit did remind me of the 1st season on the beach and Locke's freaky orange-peel smile. (Was that on the show or just the DVD extras? Sorry, can't remember for sure.)

#271. Posted by: Clementine at May 11, 2007 2:22 AM

So I was just sitting here drinking and playing madden on xbox when it really hit me. this show is freaking awesome. I mean, when Ben started talking to an empty chair, it was like the producers of the show were mocking everyone, like, here he is Jacob - an invisible freaking man! That shit was pretty cool, I must say, and ballsy. It is easy to pick things apart and to find faults, but at the end of the day, Lost cooks with gas. All of you naysayers and "jumped the shark" d-bags can take a long walk off of a short pier. (preferably one with a submarine on one end and a Namaste sign on the other)
I'm out like John Locke

#272. Posted by: markthefish at May 11, 2007 2:57 AM

It seems to me that the reason Richard decided Ben was special and could possibly join the "Hostiles" was that he could she a dead woman who didn't die on the Island. And she spoke to him. Now we have a plane load of people, several of whom have seen dead people (although Locke saw Boone who died on the Island. Eko's brother's and Jack's dad's bodies are also on the island), so maybe Richard is ready to give up on Ben, who is obsessed with his mother and/or Annie dying from child birth. Maybe Jack really is meant to be the next leader, not Locke?

Also, I am no expert, but doesn't baby Ben seem a bit large for a 2 month premie?

ButchM, if someone is last and no one reads their post, is the cat in the box alive or dead?

#273. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 11, 2007 5:06 AM

ButchM, if someone is last and no one reads their post, is the cat in the box alive or dead?
→ 273. Posted by: FenwayBen

Line worthy of applause!

#274. Posted by: davidrh at May 11, 2007 7:18 AM

Did anyone else get the deja vu feeling when Ben started talking to the empty chair? I mean, it was just like Hurley talking to Dave. Dave appeared on the island. Dave wasn't there. Maybe there is a Jacob/Dave connection somewhere.

#275. Posted by: meg at May 11, 2007 8:03 AM


I got a deja vu feeling after seeing Jacob sitting in the chair. It freaked me out almost as much as when I first saw "Bob" hiding behind Laura Palmer's bed in the Twin Peaks pilot episode.

#276. Posted by: Stocky at May 11, 2007 8:26 AM

@273 FenwayBen said:

>ButchM, if someone is last and no one reads their post, is the cat in the box alive or dead?

But I read it and therefore collapsed the probability function.

#277. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2007 9:32 AM

Thanks so whoever posted about Rose and Bernard being in the next episode. I think it's strange that they have not been around in SO long, not even at the pig BBQ when Hurley conned Saywer.

Do you think there is anything to this? Rose and Berbard MIA for a long time? Or do you think they were just unable to film? I wonder if they will play a bigger part? It's probably nothing becasue none of the other Losties mentioned them being away.

#278. Posted by: lostforever at May 11, 2007 9:34 AM

Just wanted to add..that my favorite lost moment was the exchange that Rose and Locke had on the beach. When she told Locke "we know it won't take that long" referring to the islands healing powers since they both knew eachother had healed from the island...I don't know I just loved that scene...I liked the connection they had

#279. Posted by: Lostforever at May 11, 2007 9:39 AM

1 thing I was thinking of concerning another group staging the actual crash on the island. Could they have staged/anticipated that Locke and Charlie would find his guitar high up in the trees? What about the passengers in the seats in the lagoon that kate/sawyer and Pauloiki found? So maybe they didn't stage it but caused it. If they caused it and somehow had a hand in getting all the Losties on the plane, then maybe Cindy as the stewardess was able to provide the Losties with a Dharma beverage that permitted their bodies to heal or be protected from the crash. That is, if Cindy was an other before all this.

#280. Posted by: PeterisLost at May 11, 2007 9:59 AM

@260. Posted by: Dakota "Lies is this how the writer are going to get around things by turning the characters into lyers. I thought Ben prided himself on his word. Who else has been lying?"

Like Dr. House says "Everybody lies." I think lying has been a theme throughout LOST, it shouldn't be coming as any surprise in season 3.

If withholding information is lying, then ALL of the Losties have lied at one point or another.

Flame vs. Plane - when I watched it I thought he said "Flame" and I thought that made sense since he seemed to be the "beer delivery guy." (Does that make him a Real American Hero or a Real Man of Genius?)

It also makes sense that he is outside the Sonar fence when killed (and for Hurley to find the van.) Wasn't he going to the Pearl station? He sure had a LOT of beer though.

Will the van make a reapparance at some point? Maybe Hurley will jump start it down a hill and run over Ben. How fitting for Ben to be killed by the vehicle that he killed his father in. Although a hit-and-run would not be "lethal" on the island. So Ben would probably pop right back up.

So why hasn't Mikhail's eye healed? Or does he just where a patch for the heck of it? He seems to heal rather quickly from all other wounds.

#281. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 10:00 AM

@232 RNM:
I understand where you are getting PLANE from. I heard, "We were driving back from THE FLAME." Pardon if someone else has said this. I wanted to comment before reading the next 40 comments to the end.

#282. Posted by: onelostdude at May 11, 2007 10:02 AM

Ok so lets say that Richard and the other Hostiles can live for ever. Maybe they have been around for so long that they have stopped trying to be in control of people who find there little island. They just go along with them and live in peace till all the new comers kill each other and the island is discovered by a new group of people. Just a thought, a lot of time did pass from when Ben meet Richard as a child then Ben was much older when he killed dear old Dad. The Hostiles could have been trying to make peace that whole time and terms were unreachable so they had to take action. They then made a deal with Makhail and Kelvin about where they were permitted to roam. Ben convinces them that it is best to live in the Barracks so Darhma will continue to fund them and not send replacements. Just a wacky idea.

#283. Posted by: Dakota at May 11, 2007 10:02 AM

If one is looking for a connection with the Ben-Jacob "Harvey" exchange; Hurley and Dave; hallucinations; seeing "dead" people; mind alternating technique on Carl; all these Daddy-issues and violence (which is why Ben had a special connection with Kate when first captured: she blew up step-daddy) . . . reinforces an early theory that all the characters are confined in a mental institution.

#284. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2007 10:04 AM

Ben seemed to have assumed a leadership position among the Others when he killed his own father. Coincidentally (?), when Locke kills *his* father, the Others suddenly look to him as a leadership figure. (Or so it seems.)

Apparently, the Others have Daddy issues -- even with other people's daddies.

We'll obviously get another Ben flashback at some point (or another island history flashback) to learn what happened to Annie. It's probably a key moment in his decision to run away and join the Hostiles (either initially as a kid or later as a father-killing adult).

#285. Posted by: BJ Nemeth at May 11, 2007 10:08 AM

@285 BJ Nemeth said:

>Apparently, the Others have Daddy issues -- even with other people's daddies.

Maybe it's because none of them *have* Daddies. They are fascinated and repulsed at the same time by the biology of birth, which they've never known.

Who needs parents/kids when you never age? "To become one of us you must kill your parent(s)." "And never have kids." Which is why the island is hostile to childbirth.

#286. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2007 10:19 AM

Someone commented earlier on the fact they left all the bodies in the whole and didn't bury them. I also find it odd that he would just leave his dad's dead body out in the van in the middle of nowhere.

I wonder if the two bodies found at the caves will tie in anywhere.

It was noticable how they didn't show Annie again. I didn't even see her body, unless it was one of the people who died in the badmitton game.

I loved the way they made the filler episode with the mini van relevant!

#287. Posted by: meg at May 11, 2007 10:23 AM

I also don't see how the Dharmans were all killed so quickly- like at the very same time and with no visible struggle. And I guess we're to assume they were killed in the same manner as daddy-Roger, since all of the Hostiles also had gas masks on. But as has been previously mentioned, no cannisters are seen anywhere lying around. Just very strange, especially in the vast open air.

I disagree that other Dharma people defected before Ben. I think they were a very united group and it was just Ben who joined the Hostiles and betrayed all the Dharmans. Afterall, the Hostiles wouldn't have accepted just anyone into their ranks, just 'special' people like Ben. And it is very feasible that just been could've smuggled gas masks to the Hostiles if they didn't already have them.

And isn't it possible that there was another lamp in Jacob's hut that Ben carried out? Couldn't Ben have stamped out or thrown a blanket/towel over the fire before he stepped out?

Interesting that when Locke asked Ben why he shot him, Ben answered that it was because Jacob talked to Locke. Ben feels seriously threatened by Locke now- even more so than before. That's why I don't think Locke is toast...they need to develop this rivalry between John and Ben more.

******* minor spoiler *******

(Is it a rule that you have to have the same amount of asterisks on the right as you do on the left of your spoiler alert? Would the lack of symmetry cause the very fabric of this community to disintegrate?)

Rose and Bernard will both be in these coming final 2 episodes. Cuse/Lindelof have stated that it's just not fair to these 2 actors to keep them around in the background when the story isn't focused on them. We're just supposed to assume they are elsewhere on the beach when they are not seen this season. And when they do finally show up it will seem perfectly normal to everyone, like they've been there all along. I'll go along with it...why not?!

#288. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 10:27 AM

@235. Posted by: jg "Overlooked revelation here: Alpert knows Ben was not born on the island."

That is huge. Has Richard been around when Ben has said "I was born on this island"? I can't remember who all Ben has said that too. If Richard does want Ben overthrown, wouldn't this be a good way to do it. 'Hey everybody, this Ben guy, yeah, he's been lying to us for the last 35 years. He really wasn't born on this island. He was born in the woods outside of Portland. So really you can't trust anything he says.'

@265 - djrmsn - "Juliette and the "turn over the tape" was a rehearsed and planned "what if" scenario.

That would be one heck of a what-if scenario.... so IF Locke steals the tape, ANDIF he goes back to the losties camp to give the tape to someone, THEN have them turn it over? For what reason? to find out the plan? So the Losties will think Juliet is on their side and trust her. But they would also be prepared for the Others attack, which doesn't seem like a logical plan. Unless Juliet betrays all the Losties now that she is on the inside. Could be, Ben IS pure evil. I think Juliet wants out though, and the Losties are her best chance in 3 years.

Jacob speaking to Locke:

Jacob may have telepathically spoken to Locke, which is why Ben didn't hear them. Yet Ben could still be able to hear Jacob otherwise (assuming Jacob really exists).

Or Ben just concocted his best Darth Vader voice with Obi-Locke's back to him to make Locke think he heard a different voice, thus Jacob.

Bad crackpot theory:
Jacob is Lord Voldemort and Ben is a bizarro Harry Potter - using his powers for evil instead of good.

#289. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 10:29 AM

Sorry, it should've read:

And it is very feasible that just BEN (not been!) could've smuggled gas masks to the Hostiles if they didn't already have them.

I'm hiring a proofreader...

#290. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 10:31 AM

@ 287. Posted by: meg
"I wonder if the two bodies found at the caves will tie in anywhere."

Maybe they were the Pearl station attendees at the time of the Purge. Somebody convinced them to come out of their hatch and gassed them. Otherwise wouldn't the people in the Pearl potentially have seen what was going on? Did any of those 9 TV's connect to Othersville Village?

I love how things from previous episodes and seasons are tying in to current revelations... its almost as if (gasp) the writers know what they are doing.

@284. Posted by: welh "an early theory that all the characters are confined in a mental institution."

If they are in a mental institution, somebody's dream, purgatory, or hell, then my set of LOST dvds will be on ebay for 1 penny each. (maybe even 1 penny for the whole set). Because the loss of $150 of dvds will be nothing in comparison to the amount of time I WASTED watching a ridiculous 'it was all in their minds' show.

#291. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 10:42 AM

@288 JoePike said:

>******* minor spoiler *******

>(Is it a rule that you have to have the same amount of asterisks on the right as you do on the left of your spoiler alert? Would the lack of symmetry cause the very fabric of this community to disintegrate?)

No, but if too many people put an excess of asterisks on the same side, it could cause your monitor to tip over.

#292. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2007 10:46 AM

New points to consider:
1. If Roger was so unhappy being a janitor, why would he not leave after a year? He wasn't involved in any Dharma secrets. What's the reason he could not leave the island? (Even the US military allowed employees to go home from Area 51.)
2. If Ben was so unhappy being with his father, why would he not leave the island when he became an adult? He came to the island at age 10-12. Why did he spend another 20 years+ following in his father's path? When young Ben first ran toward the sonic fence, it was clear that he was going to commit suicide. But the vision of his mother stopped him by saying it was not time (to die?) The second trip to the fence, young Ben was running away. Alpert told him to go back and be "patient." Who could be patient for twenty-odd years for things to change??!
3. The timeline puts the Purge in the early 1990s. All the Others including Kelvin and Patchy were recruited/taken to the island after the Purge. Would not the mainland Dharma execs wonder why the island leadership (Horace) would not contact them directly (in person, by video, by phone) for more than 10 years? Certainly, the mainland Dharma execs would not allow a janitor to run their research facility. I think Dharma abandoned the island to the hostiles after the Purge.

#293. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2007 10:46 AM

Discussion b/t Roger and Horace as 'lil Ben eavesdrops from his room:

Horace: 'Hey man, I heard you ran into a little trouble.'

Roger: 'We're driving back from THE PLANE,

Anyone catch that? Not that the bold gives it away or anything. Roger says he was driving back from the plane...which would lead us to believe that there is another way on/off the island. Maybe as speculated, they drug the recruits, fly them in, then strap them into the submarine to make them think that that is the only way on/off the island.

→ 232. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 10, 2007 06:26 PM

What I heard was "We were driving back from the Flame", There is a hatch called the Flame.

#294. Posted by: michael at May 11, 2007 10:48 AM

#292 Cecil Rose:

"No, but if too many people put an excess of asterisks on the same side, it could cause your monitor to tip over."

Very nice. Touché...

#295. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 10:50 AM

Is it my imagination or didn't Ben and Juliette stop by Jacob's house once before? They didn't go in, but it seems as though they just yelled out that they were there. Am I wrong? It seems as though it was earlier in this season.

#296. Posted by: LUCY at May 11, 2007 10:54 AM

#293 welh:
"When young Ben first ran toward the sonic fence, it was clear that he was going to commit suicide."

I didn't think that was clear at all. I don't think young Ben had suicide on his mind- I think he was just irrational in that moment, and was just running toward his mother he never knew.

#297. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 10:55 AM

@ 296 LUCY

Juliet and Ben approached Mikhail at the Flame in a previous episode. That's when Ben yelled "Don't shoot". They did go in, too. That was when Ben showed Juliet her sister on the monitor.... and they saw the footage of the crash of flight 815.

I don't recall them ever going to Jacob's Lair.

#298. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 11:02 AM

Re: the gassing of all the Dharma-town residents out in the open...

What if the chosen time 4 pm was a required meeting time or gathering time or eating time? It would make a lot of sense that if you are going to assault a rather large group of people (esp a larger number than yourselves) then you'd choose a time when they were all together in a confined area. All the better that you gas them then. I think they were gassed indoors and they ran to escape, but just didn't make it very far.

#299. Posted by: BELost at May 11, 2007 11:03 AM

New points to consider:
1. If Roger was so unhappy being a janitor, why would he not leave after a year? He wasn't involved in any Dharma secrets. What's the reason he could not leave the island? (Even the US military allowed employees to go home from Area 51.)
→ 293. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2007 10:46 AM

free beer.

#300. Posted by: equeyaya at May 11, 2007 11:07 AM

@ 299 BELost -

I have trouble buying that, because they looked like they were in the middle of what they had been doing.

One dead guy was holding a running hose.

Horace was on the park bench reading the newspaper.

They weren't running from anything.

#301. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 11:08 AM

I think maybe the gas is more potent than we are giving credit. Remember when the Others were fleeing after they gassed Kate and Sayid? They were wearing the masks outside. Also, Sayid was gassed outside.

#302. Posted by: meg at May 11, 2007 11:17 AM

That could not have been the same gas they used on Kate and Sayid that they used to exterminate Dharma. They would both be dead, especially Kate since she was in a confined area.

Plus the gas used on Kate included a fog, the one on Roger didn't appear to have any fog with it.

I hope Sawyer doesn't die from drinking gassed beer. I hope that the seal on the cans was good enough to withstand any sinister gas from leaking in.

My favorite line of the season was Sawyer calling the corpse of Roger "Skeletor"

#303. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 11:28 AM

@296 (LUCY)

No, They weren't at Jacob's shack...they were approaching the flame station, and yelling out to Patchy not to shoot them as they got closer. It was the scene where Juliette's sister and her baby were being filmed by Richard in Miami....the same afternoon that Oceanic 815 crashed.

#304. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 11, 2007 11:33 AM

Is it possible Ben's mother's death in childbirth is somehow the cause of the island pregnancy deaths? Maybe Ben's sick mind is short-circuiting the island's healing properties, projecting his own bad mojo on everybody else? It's clear he has/had a connection with the island but now it's become perverted in some manner. It will turn out BEN is the reason the pregnant women die... maybe only his death will stop it?

#305. Posted by: catbarf at May 11, 2007 11:36 AM

Probably doesn't make much sense, but what if Ben has a connection with Smokey and Smokey in his sleep form is what barricades Jacob...

#306. Posted by: Quang at May 11, 2007 11:38 AM

"He walks among them but isn't one of them"

Jack's tattoo...any thoughts on that having relevance to JACOB and the hostiles?

#307. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at May 11, 2007 11:47 AM

Hmmm. I'd say that what the tatoo means is more in reference to when Jack was with the Others caring for Ben and playing football with Tom. He was getting along with them, and from all appearances was 'one of them', but was never really on their side.

#308. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 11:50 AM

@305 Catbarf

I was thinking something similar. I think that would be a great reveal to Ben (and his ego). The very thing he is trying to solve he has actually CAUSED!

And the only solution is his death. Will he give up his life so that humanity (at least on the island) will continue to live? Or is that too Donnie Darko-ish?

#309. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 12:03 PM

@JoePike/288 "Is it a rule that you have to have the same amount of asterisks on the right as you do on the left of your spoiler alert? Would the lack of symmetry cause the very fabric of this community to disintegrate?"

I think I remember having this conversation a while back... (insert flashback SFX here)...

Cecil Rose: We must consult the Book of Spoilers

davidrh: Spoilers, Chapter Two, Verses Nine to Twenty-One. "And Saint Atila, being willing to spoileth, raised the spoiler up on high, saying, 'Oh, Mac, bless this thy spoiler that with it thou mayest blow the curiousity of the readers to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And Mac did grin, and readers did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large --"

meg: Skip a bit, Brother.

davidrh: "And the Mac spake, saying, 'First shalt thou spell out "Spoiler." Then, shalt thou write three asterisks each side, no more, no less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt write, and the number of the writing shalt be three. Four shalt thou not write, nor either write thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then spell thou thy Holy Spoiler. Then thou reader, who being curious in my sight, shall read it."

Red...Neck...Man: Amen.

ALL: Amen.

FenwayBen: Right! One... two... five!

BunnyLover: Three, sir!

FenwayBen: Three!

#310. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 12:03 PM

This Ben centric episode got me wondering: Where the hell was Ben going/What the hell was Ben doing when he got caught in Rousseau's net?

#297 @JoePike

I agree, young Ben was not suicidal. I think he was just running away. His mother prevented Ben's accidental death-by-death-fence.

#311. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 11, 2007 12:07 PM

This is so much better than church...

In the name of everyone's (deadbeat) father, Michael's son Walt, and the Holy Smokey....Namaste!

#312. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 11, 2007 12:08 PM

@311 Alex (Not Rousseau)

Re: Ben caught in the net

While in the Hatch, Ben told Locke that he had come for Locke. I think that was part of Ben's reason.

I think the other part was to get Jack to perform the surgery. In Paulikki's episode we saw Ben & Juliet in the Pearl see Shepard in the Swan. Ben said he would manipulate Jack to do the surgery. So at some point he had to come to the Losties camp.

I'm not sure whether Ben intended to get caught in the net, but I'm pretty sure he had the whole Henry Gale story ready to go.... even if he were to just walk in to the Losties camp.

Unless, as some theorists say, Danielle is part of the Others. Then the net was just a ploy by Ben and Danielle to get Sayid to take Ben to the hatch. Although that was a heck of a ploy being that Danielle shot an arrow threw Ben/Henry's shoulder. But since Ben knows the healing power of the island, he may just have figured the mere flesh wound was worth the trouble.

If Ben weren't such an evil bass terd he may have thought 'Jack seems like a nice person, maybe he'll do surgery on me if I ask him' instead of trying to manipulate/break him to do it.

#313. Posted by: GFish at May 11, 2007 12:23 PM

Here is a snip from the conversation Locke has with Ben in the tent regarding Jacob.

"I was born here on this island. I'm one of the last that was. Most of these people you see - I brought them here, so Jacob talks to me John. He tells me what to do... trusts me!"

So hard to figure out what Ben is referring to when He says he was born on the island. Definately has to refer to a change that occured when he met Jacob. He also mentions that he is one of the last who went through the process - I wonder who the others were, both dead and still alive.

It also gives further insight into why Ben shot Locke. He is jealous of Locke and his connection to Jacob and the island, and is very protective of this special status that he has had.

"Help Me"

Does this mean a) Help Jacob from Ben (who is controlling restricting him somehow - ie maybe the circle of ash) or b) Help Jacob as Ben has helped Jacob in the past.

My new theory - Jacob/the island is some alien being that crashed ages ago, and is somehow stuck there. It has uber telepathic and healing abilities, that may or may not be in full control. The link it established with Ben has had side effects - ie the 7 month pregnancy thing, and who knows what else.

Backup anyone?

#314. Posted by: Shikotee at May 11, 2007 12:25 PM

#313 @GFish

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

#314 @Shikotee

We all saw Ben admit that we has not born on the island to Locke. Does anyone think that Richard knows this too? We don't know what Young Indiana Ben told Richard or any of the other Hostiles about his arrival on the island. For all we know Richard thinks Ben WAS born on the island. And from Richard's conversation with Locke re: the fertility issues, Richard may not care much about that subject anyway. There are bigger things in his world view.

#315. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 11, 2007 12:38 PM

Alex (Not Rousseau)/315 "For all we know Richard thinks Ben WAS born on the island."

When Richard and Ben first met, Ben told him that he had seen his dead mother. Richard asked if she died on the island. Ben says, "No." Assuming that Richard now knows that Ben's mother died at childbirth, he can put two and two together and know that Ben was not born on the island.

#316. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 12:45 PM

@ → 310. bcre8ve

#317. Posted by: ANTP? at May 11, 2007 12:53 PM

Jack and Locke square off in the final episode because Jacob takes possession of Lockes body.

Jacob is the leader of the Hostiles, and can teleport his conciousness into another body, as Alpert has already.
This is why Jacob is asking Locke to help him. Locke is special because the Island can heal him and that makes him the ideal host for Jacob. This is also why the Others would search for, and investigate children, in trying to identify a host body for Jacob to inhabit.

Immortality on the Island.

#318. Posted by: Neal Mindflood at May 11, 2007 12:53 PM

The Big Questions from "The Man Behind The Curtain"

1) What is the deal with Richard Alpert? He now becomes one of the most intriguing characters on the show. He was an important member of the Hostiles/Natives that appeared to lead the Purge with tiny Ben's infiltrating assistance. Does/Did Richard have any connection to Jacob at that time? That question will have implications for the rest of the show because if not, is Jacob a "creation" of Ben/Dharma/etc.?

Also, from Juliet's first flashback, second flashback, and The Brig, Richard Alpert has a very effective way of manipulating people. His style is different than Ben's but no less effective. Everytime he has spoken with someone, they have done exactly as he desired.

Small question from the episode: Has there been any speculation to the jars on Jacob's window sill? I've heard that 4 of 6 were a reddish liquid (wine/blood) with a solid floating in it. The other two were a clear liquid. It is too strange a prop to not be IMPORTANT.

#319. Posted by: Gitmo at May 11, 2007 12:58 PM

#316 @bcre8ve

That's the one thing we don't know - Did Ben tell Richard that his mother died at childbirth? He didn't tell him that in the scene they showed us. He may have told Richard later or Richard could have put 2 and 2 together. But since we're not sure, it makes me wonder whether this information would constitute a betrayal for Richard, Tom or any of the other Hostiles. It seems to me that Richard probably doesn't care either way.

#320. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 11, 2007 12:59 PM

Food for thought on a Friday:

(1) Rousseau (aka: Danielle) = Annie?

(2) Ben and Locke's mohers are both named Emily. Coincidence? Not likely.

(3) In the Bible, Jacob is Ben's father.


#321. Posted by: GatorGal at May 11, 2007 1:00 PM

Going back to when Richard was recruiting Juliet. He shows her a pic of the uterus of a 20 something woman that looks like one of a 70 something woman. Richard appears to not age. Maybe the hostiles/natives age on the inside and not the outside which then poses a reproduction problem. Who knows- just another theory to throw out there.

#322. Posted by: nd fan at May 11, 2007 1:17 PM

@Alex (Not Rousseau)/320 "Did Ben tell Richard that his mother died at childbirth? He didn't tell him that in the scene they showed us. He may have told Richard later or Richard could have put 2 and 2 together..." "It seems to me that Richard probably doesn't care either way."

I agree. I think that Richard has his eye on the bigger picture and is starting to see Ben for the fool that he is. (Fool = selfish/focused on his own agenda)

So it was Richard that put 2 and 2 together and got 4 - the first Lost number : p

#323. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 1:17 PM

In the Haunted Mansion at Disney World patrons are instructed not to use flash photography. This is because the flashes will disrupt the special effects, i.e., ghosts, gobblins, etc. Now put this same theory to the Haunted "Jacob" House. Ben tells Locke not to use technology because Jacob doesn't like it.
Ben is controlling the special effects (Man Behind the Curtain) and the light from the flashlight will disrupt the desired effects. When Locke does turn on the flashlight the light does in fact have an impact on the electronic special effects causing destructive random movements.

Does this seem to make sense?

#324. Posted by: Len at May 11, 2007 1:23 PM

@Alex (Not Rousseau)/315:

I believe that Richard is well aware that Ben was not born on the island. Richard clearly knows that Ben was a member of the Dharma Initiative (in his conversation with young Ben, he says something to the effect of "your people" so Richard knows Ben is one of that group). Richard (I assume) knows full well that conception cannot happen on the island, as he has been on the island for some time already, and thus he knows that young Ben (and any other Dharma children for that matter) MUST have been brought to the island or conceived off-island. I'm sure that "the natives/hostiles" have been keeping track of Dharma ever since they came to the island, and would know of any children coming to the island, or born on the island.

It will be interesting to learn as time passes who of the Others was a native, who was originally a member of Dharma, who arrived on the island at some other point and was "forced" into the group, and who was brought to the island to join the group. Here is a list of what I believe so far:

Richard Alpert (now known)
Ethan Rom
Mikael (although could have been Dharma)

Ben (now known)
Kelvin (told Desmond he joined)
Goodwin (just guessing here)
Karl (not sure where else he could have come from as he could not have been born on the island, he is rather young, but has been around long enough to have a relationship with Alex)

815 Tail Section Survivors, including Cindy and the children

Brought to Island:

I believe that Ethan, Tom, Mikael, Bea and Isabelle are natives because they all seem to, in some way or another, have a rough, tough (super strength), or mystical presence about them, and they don't seem to have come from Dharma. Some MAY have been brought to the island, like Juliette, but I doubt it. Goodwin seems to be the Dharma type -- and maybe that's why Juliette "bonded" with him moreso than some others. Kelvin was certainly not a native, as he was in Iraq with Sayid, so he clearly went to the island. I think he arrived before the purge, as did Radzinsky, and were just left to be after the purge because, well, someone had to push that button.

One other thing that occurred to me -- there must have been someone in "The Flame" for sometime after the purge as well, hence all the unopened notebook canisters in that pile. The books were probably picked up regularly before the purge, but The Flame inhabitants (just like The Swan inhabitants) were unaware of the purge and continued to do their duties. And I think The Flame only monitored the other hatches/stations, not the whole island, so if every Dharma member in a hatch stayed in their hatch unaware of the purge, the observers in The Flame would not know of anything until their subjects started to disapper from the stations. They would then go to investigate and share their fate -- either death or forced into the new order. All except for those in the Swan of course, because they HAD to stay in there. This does explain Kelvin's and Radzinsky's intimate knowledge of the island layout though -- at one time, they were out and about on the island with the rest of the Dharma folk.

Feel free to disagree, as I'd like to hear what other think about who was Dharma and who was native, etc...

#325. Posted by: Stocky at May 11, 2007 1:23 PM

→ 310. Posted by: bcre8ve

Someone is taking my name in vain!!!!
Darest I nameth names? . . .


#326. Posted by: davidrh at May 11, 2007 1:28 PM

With all the Ben-centered discussion, one beach point has to be mentioned. At the town meeting, when Juliet is confronted with tape recorder, she says she told Jack beforehand of Ben's plan. Jack stands in a trance and agrees with that statement. But Juliet's claim has to be false because in the chain of custody of the tape itself, she never heard the B side. Ben had dictated the "new" instructions that Alpert was supposed to plant, but Locke had already taken the tape to Sawyer. So Juliet could not have known of Ben's "new" instructions (i.e. exact details of the raid because Ben moved up the time table without any other samples.) So did the writers throw Jack under the Hurley VW Bus by having him lie to protect what Juliet was telling the mob?

#327. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2007 1:31 PM

Do we now think maybe the writers actually have a plan? Remember when we thought "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" was a throwaway filler episode. Just an excuse to give Hurley a little screen time and a van to play with and some bitchin' rock music. Right?

Now that van becomes a darker object with a central purpose in showing how twisted Ben's psyche has become, and what led up to it.

Now what's another recent episode that seemed to be a throwaway with little point in advancing the overall story? "Expose'". So what will we learn that puts Paolo and Nikki in another light?

#328. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2007 1:44 PM


Juliette never heard the tape/instructions, but that doesn't mean she didn't know SOMETHING would be on it. They were clearly using the recorder as a means of communication, so it would not be unreasonable to surmise that either Ben had previously left a message on the recorder that Juliette knew was there, or that she knew he was supposed to leave another message for her after he got hers, only she hadn't heard it yet. Either way, instructions from Ben to Juliette would have been on the other side of the tape, so she wanted them to hear whatever was there so they would know she was being instructed to do what she was doing. Coming clean to Jack, without even having heard the new message on the tape, proves that her betrayal of Ben is legit if you ask me...

#329. Posted by: Stocky at May 11, 2007 1:44 PM

This last episode sure has put the mind to thinking. Lots of great ideas put forth. Will the last episode answer any of these questions?

@ 181 - Loved the idea that Black Rock was a ship headed to Australia with prisoners on it. Makes lots of sense.

Why hasn't anyone asked Naomi any hard questions? Were you on the helo alone? Is Penelope nearby on the ship? Will the Red Sox win the World Series again?

#330. Posted by: d-lost at May 11, 2007 1:47 PM

@davidrh/326 "Someone is taking my name in vain!!!!Darest I nameth names? . . . "


The events depicted in post 310 are fictional. Any resemblance to actual posters or events is purely unfortunate...

Oh yeah, and ...void where prohibited, no purchase necessary, objects may appear large than they are, not legal tender, caution coffee is hot, etc.

I think that about covers it.


Sincere apologies - davidrh, meg, RNM, and Bunnylover and mac

I would confess to making the whole thing up but a certain group of British writers might disagree...

#331. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 1:48 PM

@bcre8ve/310: That post is dynamite!

Oh how I do love that movie.

#332. Posted by: mac at May 11, 2007 1:52 PM

Notice also that both Roger (Bens Dad) and Jacob are 5 letter names with two vowels in the middle.

Can't find the anagram or math relationship yet though...

#333. Posted by: Neal Mindflood at May 11, 2007 1:55 PM

#265 djrmsm
Jack and Juliet do not make an announcement over 'smores that they are going to traipse back to BENStown to get gas masks..That is just my guess, along with the 325 other guesses on this forum about Lost, as to where they went to. I felt that the gas masks were prominently displayed on this episode. Foreshadowing for what is to come in the smackdown season finale.
Someone has also mentioned how black Ben's eyes get when he gets angry or upset. His bug eyes were Totally ebony in Jacob's cabin..Maybe smokey can possess him?

#334. Posted by: Use the Schwartz at May 11, 2007 2:00 PM

Since this weblog is evolving from thoughtful to witty, I'd like to add... I figured out why the Hostile Native population went nutso on the Dharma Clan... they kept on trying to sell them Amway products. ('nuf said!)

#335. Posted by: Other 218 at May 11, 2007 2:09 PM

@JoePike/#290: I about spit my tea on my keyboard laughing. My editing/proofreading rates are very reasonable! ; )

#336. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at May 11, 2007 2:15 PM

OK. I think I can put this all together now.

Jacob was a former incarnation of Locke. He came to the island on the Black Rock, which is a sister ship to the Black Pearl. Jack Sparrow was an ancestor of Roberta Sparrow, who wrote "The Philosophy of Time Travel" in Donnie Darko.

The 'hostiles' are the crew of the Black Rock, undead and undying as was the crew of the Black Pearl. (Pearl Station named after that ship???)

The common denominator is Walt Disney, Inc. which produced both LOST and POTC. We've been flimflammed by a sidebar to a sidebar to an amusement park ride.

On another note: In our 'real world', Richard Alpert worked with Timothy Leary and changed his name to Baba Ram Dass. Just for fun, look up Richard Alpert on wikipedia; then look up the Hanuman Foundation (Hanso Foundation, anyone?)

LOST is a huge Disney slap in the face to the 'peace and love' crowd of the '60's.

Ultimately, welcome to Forbidden Treasure Pleasure Island!!

#337. Posted by: Calv1n at May 11, 2007 2:21 PM

Wow. Almost 340 posts and its only Friday.....its safe to say we'll hit 1,000 by next episode....where is this sudden influx of posters coming from?'s time to start getting some more advertisers to this website and boosting those pockets of yours

#338. Posted by: mike at May 11, 2007 2:24 PM


#339. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 11, 2007 2:31 PM

@Mike: Anytime ABC wants to shell out some dough, I'm ready ;)

#340. Posted by: mac at May 11, 2007 2:32 PM


Actually, I've always been around, just didn't have much to offer since my theories are quite lame.. but this past week's episode sparked a sudden urge to typ..

#341. Posted by: Quang at May 11, 2007 2:48 PM

#336 Alaïs_Longthought

Your hired as my knew proofreader...asuming you can be payd in Darma beer.

You have your work cut out for you... Do you do windows too?

And now for something completely different.

Crazy Danielle is going to be the real wildcard in the final eps...she and her merry case of dynamite. Seems to me she isn't going to care who gets 'blowed up' as long as she can snatch Alex back.

#342. Posted by: JoePike at May 11, 2007 2:52 PM

Loooong time lurker, first time Poster (and I have read all 335 posts, don't worry)

#284 when you said about Ben and Kate having a link (both killed their fathers) did anyone else notice that young Ben took off his drunk daddy's shoes while he was crashed on the couch (a la Kate putting Wayne to bed and removing his shoes). That scene had to be on purpose (I even said out loud "that's what Kate did").

Second point: Anyone notice how Ben's mom named him right before she died ("name him Ben ok") a la Padme naming Luke and Leia and then croaked?

#343. Posted by: Rudy at May 11, 2007 2:56 PM

Yes, Juliet may have known the general nature of the mission and capture, but she said she told Jack everything about it before the tape was heard by Jack - - I am saying she could not have told Jack the exact timing of attack because Ben moved it up. Maybe that's why Jack looked stunned and said to Sayid that he hadn't told anyone about it (he had not formulated a plan) because no time table had been set for the Others attack.

#344. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2007 2:56 PM

way-side-notation: I was just reading an article about baby's a piece....

'Overall, the country's most popular names list hasn't changed much since 2005.

Emily and Jacob remain atop the list. Emily has been the top girls' name since 1996; Jacob for boys since 1999.'

Fairly neat....Third most popular was of course RNM!! Cause I'm great of course.

#345. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 11, 2007 3:07 PM

@344 I thought they talked about moving up the attack, but Locke nixed that idea by insisting he be taken to Jacob...and beating the crap out of Mikhail. On a side not, who is gonna kick the crap out of Mikhail next? Sayid, Jin and Locke have all had their turns...

@345 I am sure any day now "Freckles" and "Red...Neck...Man" will be topping the list!

#346. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 11, 2007 3:20 PM

@welh/344 "...that's why Jack looked stunned and said to Sayid that he hadn't told anyone about it..."

I am one of the ones that have been pretty hard on Jack about his silence and not sharing info with the beach crew. But looking at their history on the beach with the Others infiltrating their little commune, I think a little caution about tipping your hand is prudent.

That doesn't speak to the fact that he has not opened up to the inner sanctum (Kate, Sayid, Sawyer, Sun, Jin, Hurley, Charlie, Claire).

***** Spoiler *

Oops! (Sorry, didn't mean to tip your monitor.) I mean...

*** Spoiler ***

We've been told that there is a snake in the mailbox type of event that is about to occur. Is it possible that one of the inner sanctumites is really an Other and Juliet has informed Jack?

*** End Spoiler ***

#347. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 3:26 PM

I've read all the posts here, and saw something no one has yet mentioned:

Right before going into Jacobs cabin, Ben lights the lantern with a match, then reaches down to his belt and CLICKS something attached to his belt - it looked like a tape recorder or something...could it be the "on" switch for the "Jacob show" ? The whole thing reminded me of the disneyworld "pirates of the carribean" ride, flames that appear and then disappear as soon as the audience passes by.

Also - I am in the ben is the cause of the prego problems - the rabbit is a clue - Rabbits/babies/fertility often related together. Also - Can rabbits have babies? or just the humans have those problems.

#348. Posted by: Dani at May 11, 2007 3:28 PM

I couldn't see Jacob. I've had to look at pictures on the computer :(

Nevertheless the figure definitely looks like Locke. Who the hell is this Jacob? what is it?! It was so weird seeing Ben lose his cool, its almost too hard to believe - maybe hes playing a game.

BTW that ash will wash away during a raining session will it not? Or even a windy session. Someone planted it there? For effect?

I'm quite intrigued by Evangeline Lilly's revelation that she got "goosebumps" when she found out the revelation in the last episode. I wonder what she was/who refering too.

#349. Posted by: Andie at May 11, 2007 3:36 PM

Picking up on posts 329 and 347 - Juliette needed a way to hear the new message. There was no way she was going to be able to do that without showing her hand. Also, how could she explain an absence that would have been long enough for her to go back to the hatch and retrieve the new message? How did the 'Others' even know when she left a message. Does she have a contact in the camp? If not, there must definately be one close by to retrieve tree mail. Also, I think when all is said and done, Hurley will buy the island and anyone left standing will live happily ever afer.

#350. Posted by: peb at May 11, 2007 3:41 PM

@Stocky/276 "It freaked me out almost as much as when I first saw "Bob" hiding behind Laura Palmer's bed in the Twin Peaks..."

That is the same thing I thought back to. I too, got caught up in the debacle that was Twin Peaks. Once it went off the deep end I stopped watching. Not that I don't appreciate shows like that. My issue with TP was that it presented itself as one thing (a murder mystery) for so long but then went a totally different direction.

My first thought Weds. night while watching Schitzo Bug Man wrestle the invisible man was, "Here we go again!" But the Lost writing crew is smarter than that and have voiced their intentions to not go that direction. I think that their recent announcement to end the show after six seasons is a step to ensure that we don't end up trapped in the Black Lodge.

Now if Laura shows up on the island carrying a log and talking backward to a dwarf while Ben's mom looks on, I might reconsider.

#351. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 3:47 PM

I just read on the site that Rose married while doing Lost and then her husband died within the year. Maybe that's why she's been missing. It also says she's back in Hawaii doing Lost again.

#352. Posted by: peb at May 11, 2007 4:11 PM

@ peb/#352: I read that too....but he came back to life a couple days later. Was that mean?

#353. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 11, 2007 4:14 PM

353 = YES

#354. Posted by: peb at May 11, 2007 4:18 PM

The two dead people in the cave are Annie and some guy she was messing around with. Ben caught them and gassed them.

#355. Posted by: littlelostlamb at May 11, 2007 4:21 PM

Great Recap MAC:

I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, and at 350 posts I don't think i'd ever find it, but after looking at the screencaps of "Jacob" that are posted online and studying them I can't seem to shake the feeling that it's Christian Shephard, Jack's dad. I'm not 100% positive, it's just that his is the first face that comes to mind when looking at Jacob.

#356. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at May 11, 2007 4:26 PM

If you compare the picture of Jacob in this episode to the picture of Alvar Hanso on the Hanso Foundation website there are some striking similarities. I think Jacob is Magnus Hanso.

#357. Posted by: Bobbi at May 11, 2007 4:28 PM

From afriendnebraska
A.K.A. Bus Spaig

I really liked one of the comments about Richard...... . . .

"Also it hits me, that other than the instance when Juliette drank the drugged orange juice, I have never seen Richard talk to more than one person. Every conversation he has (specifically, on the island) is one-on-one and usually it is some pretty powerful persuasion he is laying down."

Richard can persuade people and he probably persuaded young Ben to work on the inside for 10 years (talk about patience), to finally overtake Dharma. Persuaded Locke to get Sawyer to kill his dad. Ben was only in charge because he had special talents with Jacob---- again, one of the Ancients, like Richard, who live forever----Jacob trapped in some magnetic void wanting to get out, wanting "help." Fighting with his only powers--Smoky, visions---- trying to influence others. Thus the Ancients are both long lived AND can influence people.

#358. Posted by: afriendnebraska at May 11, 2007 4:44 PM

sorry i cant find your post, but who ever wrote that they think they seen a cat on jacobs shoulder - i think you are right! ive studied the picture and it most certainly looks like a cat.

it could be Nadia - mikhails cat?

possibly reading into this tooo much but the ancient Egyptians were scared of cats right (cos they guarded the underworld ?) and weren't there hieroglyphics in the hatch? mmh.

#359. Posted by: Andie at May 11, 2007 4:44 PM

@JoePike/#342: As long as the beer is from Dharma's microbrewery, that's cool...although if you could get a case of the wine from Desmond's ex-monastery that would be even better. For windows I need a case of MacCutcheon's Scotch, though. ; >

As far as other species (e.g., rabbits) reproducing on the island: Sure looks like there are no problems w/the females ability to carry to term...unless the rabbits are immortal or age very slowly à la Eyeliner Dick.

#360. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at May 11, 2007 4:50 PM

Hey, has anyone considered the fact that Carl (Alex's BF) could have been someone who had originally been kidnapped from the tailies section of the camp? Didnt they have several people taken within the first couple of nights? We didnt really get to know any of the characters that had been taken from their camp. Maybe since Carl was an outsider, that could be the reason he was in "The Room" watching the trippy video? I dunno.

#361. Posted by: Keluha at May 11, 2007 4:55 PM

Looking at the picture of the dog on a full screen format there is no way that it is Vincent or another dog like Vincent. It looks like an Airedale Terrier. Perhaps this is who Vincent plays with in the jungle off screen (Smokie, ghost of pictured dog?) but it is in no way Vincent in the picture.
Just had to get that off of my chest.

#362. Posted by: Bobbi at May 11, 2007 5:00 PM

oi dudes if you look closely you can see jacob as the camera scrolls away after ben was pushed

#363. Posted by: warna at May 11, 2007 5:09 PM


-Really, there's a guy sitting in the chair. I wish someone in the previous 362 posts would have brought that up... lol.

-Sorry, bro... that kind of post dictates that you be given some shizzat.

#364. Posted by: Gitmo at May 11, 2007 5:24 PM

I have neither the time nor the inclination to review the 360+ posts before mine, but could Dick Alpert's slow aging and that orangutan, Joop, be related. I seriously doubt that immortality comes into play. Just my two cents.

#365. Posted by: fedexman at May 11, 2007 5:42 PM

I wanted to share a quick synopsis of this week's show...


Baby cries,
Mommy dies,
Daddy sighs,
Li'l buggy eyes.

Roger bad,
Forgets the lad,
Blaming Dad,
Son is mad.

Class in room,
Hostiles boom,
Thoughts of doom,
Looking gloom.

Annie's gift,
Brings a lift,
Mother swift,
Jungle drift.

Ben a whiner,
Couldn't find her,
Hostiles kinder,
Much eyeliner.

Dharma suit,
Beer en route,
Ben's a brute,
Dad gets boot.

Dharma crass,
Choking gas,
Dead en masse,
Litter grass.

Present day...

Tape is gone,
Dad of John,
Locke has brawn,
Journey on!

Birthday boy,
Alex, coy,
Gun, not toy,
All a ploy?

Volcanic dust?
Ben's disgust,
Locke's nonplussed,
Forward, must.

Enter hut,
Door goes shut,
Can't see what?
Ben's a nut!

Rocking chair,
Have to stare,
No one's there,
Then a scare.

Jars of goo,
Lantern flew,
Passing view,
I saw him too!

Said, "Help me",
Room too small for three,
Locke - evacuee,
No need to pee.

Jungle trot,
Bones that rot,
Lies not bought,
Kidney shot.

On the beach...

Kate acts dumb,
Jack is mum,
Tape goes hum,
Beach is glum.

Talk of smack,
Can't trust Jack?
Big attack?
Fade to black.

#366. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 11, 2007 5:42 PM

@348/Dani - Re. your idea that Ben reached for his belt before entering the cabin, I just looked at that scene again. You can tell by the color of the shirt that it was not Ben, but Locke who reaches to his belt checking something with his left arm, probably his gun. Looks like a cell phone holder, but obviously not ;) It would have been a major disappointment if it was Ben turning on a disneyworld type switch.

#367. Posted by: leegull at May 11, 2007 5:45 PM

Thanks for the poem. I'll try my hand at a Lost Haiku.

Bug eyed Ben kills mom.
His dad never forgives him.
Dharma beer is good!

#368. Posted by: fedexman at May 11, 2007 5:47 PM

I think Locke was taking the safety off his gun.

#369. Posted by: peb at May 11, 2007 5:47 PM

For clarification, Joop was that 100+ year old orangutan that was mentioned on one of the Hanso websites. Maybe I'm way off base.

#370. Posted by: fedexman at May 11, 2007 5:50 PM


Actually, all Juliet said was that after she found out that Sun was pregnant, that night she "told Jack what they were making [her] do." She never said anything about specific dates or times, but she did know to expect Ben and the rest about a week after they left Bennsylvania. So I'm sure what she told Jack was that Ben sent her there to get the info on pregnant women, and that the others would be coming for them soon. Now EVERYONE knows when they're coming, and they will be ready for them, once Rousseau comes with the dynamite :)

#371. Posted by: Stocky at May 11, 2007 6:00 PM

@Matt, #263 - dude, totally FUNNY!

@SITMWY, #266 - oh my darlin, oh my darlin, oh my darlin, SITMWY (sorry mif)

@Irish, #269 - so, you live in South Bend, huh?

@FenwayBen, #273 - ButchM, if someone is last and no one reads their post, is the cat in the box alive or dead?

LOL! Great comeback. In my defense, when your opponent’s sittin’ there holding all the aces, there’s only one thing to do: Kick over the table (Or copy and paste to the new episode).

@davidrh, #274 - you are obviously a man with polish (seohs ruoy no) :>)

@Cecil Rose, #277 - touche! Yeah, that davidrh is probably the type of fisherman who catches fish by the tale.

@Lostforever, #279 - totally agree. That was an awesome scene.

@GFish, #281 - Will the van make a reapparance at some point? Maybe Hurley will jump start it down a hill and run over Ben. How fitting for Ben to be killed by the vehicle that he killed his father in.

Great irony, for sure! Ben is as compatible with refined people as ham and matzohs.

@Cecil Rose, #292 - No, but if too many people put an excess of asterisks on the same side, it could cause your monitor to tip over. LMAO!

I think bcre8ve in #310 came up with the very best possible answer for this.
LMAO again!!!

There are some things so serious you have to laugh at them.

#372. Posted by: ButchM at May 11, 2007 6:04 PM

@Alex (Not Rousseau)

Re: Ben not born on island

I realize that Ben did admit that he was technically not actually born on the island. But as we have observed, Ben often speaks half truthes. The flashback revealed that at some point or another, he sided with the natives. Hence why he refers to himself as one of them - as if he was born on the island.

I'm still piqued by:
"I'm one of the last that was."

Does this mean that there are not that many natives left? If there were other ex-Dharma that helped with the Purge, were they perhaps involved in a ritual where they were symbolically re-born on
the island? Does this line then mean that Ben is one of the few that is still alive?

#373. Posted by: Shikotee at May 11, 2007 6:08 PM

@bcre8ve, #366

This was an absolute pearl (no pun intended). Great job, very witty, very interesting, good reading. What can I say - you da man!

#374. Posted by: ButchM at May 11, 2007 6:12 PM


Great stuff!!

Made me think of Adam Sandler's SNL "Cajun Man"....


#375. Posted by: Shikotee at May 11, 2007 6:15 PM


Twin Peaks starred Michael J. Anderson as the "Man From Another Place" who was also on the HBO show Carnivale. Carnivale also starred Clancy Brown as "Brother Justin" but we all know him better as Kelvin Inman. Just a little 6 Degrees of Separation for everyone.


I mentioned above in an earlier post that Karl is most likely not a tailie. I doubt that Alex would have fallen for him in such a short time, however we have seen it before on this show (Shannon & Sayid), so anything's possible I guess. I personally think Karl was either left over from Dharma and somehow survived, was brought to the island after the purge, or was born to someone brought to the island after the purge, but who was impregnated before being brought to the island. I think he's definitely too young to be a native, but maybe he's actually hundreds of years old and hasn't aged...but then he wouldn't have been caught crying in the woods like he was.

#376. Posted by: Stocky at May 11, 2007 6:25 PM

@366 bcre8ve said:

Some very cre8ve things.

I especialy like that you have to pronounce "what" Southern (whut) to make the rhyme work. Alabama rulez!
(I'm from Sheffield).

#377. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2007 6:56 PM

I forsee a battle among the Others. When Locke said he would go to that eyeliner guy for help in talking to Jacob, you could see by Ben's reply, "Why would you go to HIM" that Ben was thinking of a conspiracy. Then they just sat there while Locke beat up Mikhail.

bcr8ve - you are forgiven - but I didn't understand it...sorry - I'm a skipping...

#378. Posted by: meg at May 11, 2007 9:23 PM

To all my "LOST NERD HERD". Help me out with something. Locke blows up the sub. After that, lets say the next day or so, Ben brings Locke to see his Dad. If there was no sub how did Lockes Dad get to the Island. He (LOckes Dad) has been the only person brought to the Island since the plane crash......Help me out please....

#379. Posted by: dantheman at May 11, 2007 9:24 PM

→ 376. Posted by: Stocky: I doubt that Alex would have fallen for him in such a short time...

I would think 3 months, give or take, would be plenty of time for teenagers to fall in love. I am not arguing your thoughts on him being a left over or an after purge miracle...but of course, with this show, almost anything is possible.

#380. Posted by: Keluha at May 11, 2007 9:32 PM

And back to the tape recorder…

Suppose Ben knows a faction of his people are plotting to overthrow him. Juliet desperately wants off the island and some of the Others are “looking for a change” (Juliet’s secret video message to Jack at the Hydra). And Jack revealed Juliet’s plan to kill Ben in surgery (although during the Isabel interview he claimed to be working alone).

Ben knows his people believe him to be weak because:
1) Ben is wasting time with pregnant women when there are other more important reasons for being on the island (according to Richard).
2) Ben developed cancer on an island where there is no cancer.
3) Ben promised Jack could take the sub and go home in exchange for saving him from the cancer.

So what’s a bug-eyed optimist to do when confronted with such a dilemma? Ben needs a plan!

First, a blatant attempt to humiliate Locke and show his people there is no competition. When Locke refuses to filet his father, Ben is jubilant.

But then Richard gives Locke information (the Sawyer file), aiding and abetting the enemy to overcome Ben’s ultimatum. Treachery!

On to Plan B.

Ben is listening to a private, taped message (from Juliet) when Locke enters his tent. Ben (rather obviously) quickly switches the tape off and puts it on the chest of drawers for Locke to see. Before they leave the tent, Ben places the recorder in a drawer as Locke watches closely.

Locke steals the tape and gives it to the Losties (Sawyer) as Ben meant for him to do (because Locke is always an easy target for manipulation).

Richard enters Ben’s tent and asks to take the tape back to the medical station. Ben exclaims “I thought you already took it! Where’s Tom?” and storms outside to make it public that the recorder is missing.

Ben’s compadre Mikhail interrupts by crashing into camp with news of Naomi, a sat phone and a ship approximately 130 klicks to the West. “We have to attack now!” (Locke interrupts to lay the smack down.)

Next Ben takes Locke on the Jacob Quest and kills the competition.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Losties are listening to the B-side of Ben’s greatest hits. The Others are attacking tomorrow night! They want the pregnant women! (and/or Kate’s sample! Eww!) Jack gives a rousing encore of Live Together, Die Alone.

Ben arrives back at camp with news of Locke’s demise. “Gee, guess he wasn’t as powerful as you all thought. Jacob sure didn’t like him. Now, let’s rise above this and go capture Naomi and her sat phone.”

Now the Losties know that the Others are coming, and the Others know the Losties are prepared (all because of the tape recorder). This is no longer a hit-and-run night raid. This is WAR!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

#381. Posted by: Clementine at May 11, 2007 10:52 PM

I've compared Terry O'Quinn's profile with that of Jacob, and they are not the same person, as some have suggested. Jacob's head is larger, and his nose is longer and differently shaped. I initially thought of Kelvin Inman, but it's not him either.

Speaking of "him," who is ""him"?

We still don't know, do we?

#382. Posted by: James at May 11, 2007 11:20 PM

Him = Jacob

#383. Posted by: Gitmo at May 11, 2007 11:38 PM

Clementine @ Comment #381 *ButchM too*
Easily the smartest, most refreshing thoughts in the past 2 days... All need to start reflecting on the above.

#384. Posted by: DocH at May 11, 2007 11:57 PM

Here is the truth....

Richard is a timelord from Gallifrey known as "the Doctor". He is in his 12th regeneration. Gallifreyeans are known to live hundreds of years - hence the not aging thing.


Wrong show.

#385. Posted by: Shikotee at May 11, 2007 11:59 PM

OK, I've never posted here and although I've scanned the previous posts, I can't say that I've read them all.

Having said that, I'm going to offer up my "Who is Jacob" theory as food for thought.

Jacob = Alvar Hanso

I have compared the "Lost-Media" screencap with the picture of AH on "Lostpedia" and am convinced I'm right about this.

Also, this would fit with the timeline of the Lost Experience, where Hanso (circa 2006) writes that he has been freed from his "imprisonment" on the Foundation website. Who helped free him from the imprisonment? None other than John Locke (circa 2004).

I could go on with further parallels, but I want to see if this theory has legs first. I'm a bit self-conscious about posting here.

If anyone has already thought of this, sorry. If there's an enormous hole in my theory, please point it out...

#386. Posted by: slamgrass at May 12, 2007 12:00 AM

You forgot to mention the sight of a man sitting in the chair after Jacob launches Ben backwards.

I would have to say that it is a crucial moment, and I didnt notice it the first time around.

#387. Posted by: Nick at May 12, 2007 12:30 AM

I suppose we're to assume Jacob is Him, but Desmond seemed to think "Him" might be dropping by the hatch. If Jacob is Him, that begs the question: why would Jacob be visiting the Swan?

#388. Posted by: James at May 12, 2007 12:31 AM

...and why would he be expected to tell Desmond what one snowman said to the other snowman?

#389. Posted by: James at May 12, 2007 12:36 AM

And if those questions are reasonably answered and Jacob is Him, then what does Desmond already know about Jacob?

#390. Posted by: James at May 12, 2007 12:38 AM

@James 388
Maybe Jacob is a big Mamas & the Papas fan, and Des knew he'd be coming to get his album back?

@Slamgrass 386
I think someone else mentioned him being Alvar Honso (no, I don't want to re-read 388 posts to figure out who. Call me lazy), but I don't think I put the confinement portion of it together...Wasn't there someone he credited with his release, though? I forget all the details of the Lost Experience.

While I applaud your creativity, and bow humbly before the "last" master, let's hope this doesn't spur a trend of people copying and pasting comments from previous posts onto this one, we're almost up to 400 as it is!

How did we lose to the Orioles today?!? We NEVER lose to the O's...

#391. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 12, 2007 12:41 AM

Because when the O's fans have faith in their team they always win.

#392. Posted by: peb at May 12, 2007 1:21 AM

This may be old new, but I just heard about it...

Next Thursday on ABC at 10:15 PM (9:15 PM Central and Hawaiian), "Executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse explore the mysteries of the island and recap some of the revelations made this season as well as those not yet made"

On a side note, this is the time slot they used last night to launch "Traveller". I gotta say, I love the way "Lost" uses flashbacks to propel the story and reveal bits of information, but I don't want EVERY show to be flashback heavy (hello "Reunion", "the Nine", "Traveller", "Kidnapped" (or was it "Missing"?) and the like!) BSG uses it nicely (and sparingly) but imagine if every time Jack Bauer came upon a terrorist to fight, we had to flash back to his childhood schoolyard fight days? Long live "Lost", death to the "Lost" clones! (and I don't mean the survivors of flight 815!)

#393. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 12, 2007 1:31 AM

@392 peb
Please display the same amount of faith the next time your team is in the Bronx. Thank you :)

#394. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 12, 2007 1:37 AM


AH credits his daughter in his letter, but I don't think that precludes him being captive on the island or that Locke may have helped in his rescue.

#395. Posted by: slamgrass at May 12, 2007 1:46 AM

Is anyone an expert at Greek mythology? Is not Jacob similar to Prometheus? Jacob is confined (or chained) to a summit of a mountain, surrounded by ocean. Prometheus is chained to a moutain summit near the ocean Oceanus, which is at the end of the world. Jacob hates flashlights, while Prometheus introduced fire to man, and would most likely be insulted by a flashlight. Prometheus showed men the art of healing, and saved them from the four toed statue that of one of the seven wonders, the statue of Zeus, who chained Prometheus?

#396. Posted by: Loz at May 12, 2007 1:59 AM

@meg/378 "bcr8ve - you are forgiven - but I didn't understand it...sorry - I'm a skipping..."

Just consider it a shout out to some of the mac blog regulars and Monty Python fans.

"I'm a skipping..." - ?

#397. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 12, 2007 9:31 AM

Ben told Juliette that Jacob would heal her sister's cancer. Does that mean Jacob himself or Jacob's people? Does he physically need to be there to do this? Since Rachel has never been to the island, is Jacob's power so strong he can make things happen 'long distance?' That's scary.

#398. Posted by: peb at May 12, 2007 9:38 AM

I just had a strange thought...what if Alex really is Ben's daughter, but NOT Rousseau's daughter. Maybe Annie did have a baby by Ben and died, and this is what has sent him off the deep end trying to figure out the pregnancy thing instead of exploring the other elements of the island.

Maybe Jacob can't be seen because he is in some alternate dimension.

@ bcre8ve - I said "I'm a skipping..." b/c you said something like "meg - skip a little"

#399. Posted by: meg at May 12, 2007 10:01 AM

I highly doubt Alex is Ben's daughter. I'm pretty sure Danielle would know whether or not she had carried a baby to term, and that said baby was taken from her.

400 Posts and it's only Saturday AM...

#400. Posted by: Stocky at May 12, 2007 10:10 AM


Had to run to Atlanta last night, so waited till this morning to post this.
I’ll be signing off for the weekend, because it IS Mother’s Day and it’s time to devote my full attention to the most wonderful woman in my life - THE WIFE!!!

Remember, MAC’s a new Daddy, which means there’s a new MOTHER in his house, so let’s let the guy have some downtime and not have to worry that we will write something totally foolish over the weekend . . .

Happy Mother’s Day, Mrs. Slocum.

#401. Posted by: davidrh at May 12, 2007 11:28 AM

@393/Fenway Ben:
Thanks for the heads-up!

#402. Posted by: James at May 12, 2007 11:53 AM

@399 and 400. Maybe Meg is onto something. We only have Rousseau's word that she had a baby girl who was stolen by the Others. Is there any proof that anything she said so far is true, including killing off her team members? Even though we sort of like her, she has her own agenda and will reveal only what is necessary, just like everyone else on the island.

Maybe she was a Native who did not go along with the purge and she has been lurking outside the death fence ever since, living alone and going whacko, seeing a baby on the compound and deciding that it must have been hers. But I don't like this idea of Ben being a real dad because it means he had a loving relationship with someone (Annie) and was a bit normal before turning into pure evil. Michael Emerson is a wonderful actor - we have grown to hate his character so much!

I digress. Whether or not Rousseau is a mom, I join those who think her survival and tracking skills present the best hope that someone can find Locke and get him out of the pit, rub a little aloe into the wound, and deliver him healed and whole to the beach along with Rousseau's dynamite in time for the big battle. Time will tell.

#403. Posted by: leegull at May 12, 2007 1:41 PM

@397 bcre8ve said:

>Just consider it a shout out to some of the mac blog regulars and Monty Python fans.

Are those laden or unladen Python fans?

#404. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 12, 2007 2:10 PM


Wasn't Desmond refering to "the one" being a person who had to change guards with him when his working time in the station was expired? I don't think it had anything to do with Jacob.

About the ashes around jacob's little vacation house: probabelly indeed some kind of magic circle keeping him prisonned.Jacob is most likely some kind of powerful spirit but with weaknesses.
Indeed maybe in controle of smokey and when he's angry (of being inprisonned)sending smokey on a path of destruction: killing peopple, ravagin' trees, etc...
Who knows anyway...
Mostlikely locke will heal from the gunshot and he'll get some unexpected help.

grtz from Belgium

#405. Posted by: Tyson at May 12, 2007 3:04 PM

OH yeah, and Jacob looks like Lock's twin brother....

#406. Posted by: Tyson at May 12, 2007 3:51 PM

Hey.. Why is it that Ben took such a liking to Kate on the beach when he made her wear the "special dress"? I think Kat's mom might be Annie and that she left the island while pregnant and had Kate on the mainland....Also, how come the other's look genuinely confused and surprised when they look up in the sky and see the plane crashing? If they made it crash, why would they be surprised.? Does anyone actually think that the producers will ever tie up the 1000 loose ends that they have created? Thinking back to the first season... I am speechless when I think of all of the unanswered "what the hecks"...

#407. Posted by: DKE at May 12, 2007 4:04 PM

The whole premise for 'Lost', could be that the plane survivors are in an artificial reality type computer program(John Locke's & Jacob's dislike of modern technology may be leading them to the truth of exiting the artificial reality mind program that everyone is experiencing on the island). This could explain why visions of dead people and whispering voices are heard at different times in the jungle. These are the voices & appearances of those in the real world overseeing the plane crash survivor participants artificial reality game/experiment/escape from reality, that they all are either voluntarily or involuntarily partaking in. Remember the movies 'eXistenZ', and 'Total Recall', in the first movie the virtual reality participants had completely new identities and past lives created, and in the second Arnold Schwarzenegger's character chose what type of adventure he wanted to have. Also a few episodes of the English comedy 'Red Dwalf' deal with the programs characters waking up from their Red Dwalf artificial reality game to discover they were supposedly different people to who they believed they were. Another episode of Red Dwalf deals with the characters knowingly entering an virtual reality game together; Where upon all their wishes are realized, however what was different from a Star Trek holodeck experience, they discovered that all of their secret, dark desires of failure and self loathing, came true in their experience in the artificial game.
One thing that could point toward this is the requirement by the 'others' when Juliet first entered the submarine to get to the island location, to be drug injected, and sleep to get to the 'Wizard of Oz'-fantasy Island-'The plane, the plane, I see the plane arriving-Mr. Roarke(Ben)-the mysterious host of the Island, making all your wildest fantasies come true, which you only realise has happened when you reach the climatic end of the Island game. Also at the end of the 'Wizard of Oz', all the characters only realized at the end of their journey, they had achieved through their own hard exeriences what they all wished for the most.
Also when Locke accompanied Kate, Sayid and Rousseau on a mission to find and rescue Jack. The group came across a DHARMA Initiative station called the Flame, and a man inside with an eye patch. The man identified himself as Mikhail Bakunin, and claimed to be the last living member of the DHARMA Initiative, but he was soon discovered to be one of the Others. When the gunfight ensued, the 'Other' black lady demanded that eye patch Mikhail shoot and kill her. Why did this other lady demand eye patch man to do this and not be overly worried about her own death? No doubt she was fully aware that they are 'all' participants in a virtual reality type computer game, and at that point she wanted out of the game, and the only quick and easy way to exit the game is to be physically killed within the game. This would also explain why eye-patch man Mikhail was obviously definitely kill when Locke pushed him between two barrier pylons and he was subsequently killed by a sonic weapon. Then low and behold patch-man soon after is found running through the forrest and stumbling onto some of the plane survivors, eye-patch man obviously decided he wanted to re-enter the virtual reality game, or maybe he was allowed to re-enter the game because Locke was breaking the rules of the game somehow. The question is, is their only 'one' winner to this 'LOST' game, and he who discovers all of the secrets, or the one big main secret, wins all of the 1 million dollar prize.

Another idea is that 'LOST' refers to one of the lost tribes of Israel(Jacob), who possibly took with them the magical 'Box'-the Ark of the Covenant. Also 'smokey' could be the presense of the 'Angel of Death' that went thoughtout Egypt killing the first born children, as shown in the bibles book of Exodus.
"The phrase Ten LOST Tribes of Israel(Jacob) refers to the ancient Tribes of Israel that disappeared from the Biblical account after the Kingdom of Israel was totally destroyed, enslaved and exiled by ancient Assyria. Many groups of Jews have doctrines concerning the continued hidden existence or future public return of these tribes."

"go to Jeremiah 31. This chapter is about those Lost Tribes, The "isles(Islands) afar off"-is where it makes reference that they went too.

Also the soon to be erupting volcano theme, ties in with God's revealed presense on top of Mount Zion, his appearance resembled an erupting volcano, with all the ground rumblings and flashes of lightening, as also shown in the bibles book of Exodus.

#408. Posted by: Keith Michaels at May 12, 2007 7:02 PM

Come on guys, its soooo obvious! "Jacob" is really Howard Hughes... Think about it.

#409. Posted by: Matt Dralle at May 12, 2007 7:36 PM

Re 408
I'm not here to comment on your theories, but your post reminded em of something. Ben says to Locke something like "Jacob hates technology as much as you do, John." What?!? If Locke hates technology THAT much, it must have been really hard for him to get on that 14 hour plane flight to Sydney. I wonder what Locke would do if you pointed a flahlight at him!

And another thing, how many people are on the dock when Linus and Mini-Ben arrive on the island? Must have been a cramped submarine ride!

#410. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 12, 2007 8:02 PM

Speaking of that arrival on the dock, there's a guy in a brown suit that seems to appear in each scene. During the registration process he's holding a brown suitcase. Does anyone recognize him?

#411. Posted by: peb at May 12, 2007 8:49 PM

I work at a video store so I get to watch whatever I want on the store's televisions. I was watching Lost of course and noticed/realized that the "Hurley Bird" arrives in both season finales. I don't know if this means anything, probably not. If we see it in this season's finale, it may be something though.

#412. Posted by: Kyle at May 13, 2007 1:41 AM

I think Ben's comment about Locke not liking technology was related to Locke's comment about Ben keeping chicken in a ref.

#413. Posted by: meg at May 13, 2007 9:52 AM

Could Jacob be Jack's dad? The "help me.." sounded awfully like him.

#414. Posted by: Andie at May 13, 2007 12:45 PM

Why did Juliet cry so excessively when she saw her sister and the baby? Because the good doctor is not fertile herself. Her sister was carrying Juliet's child for her. So Juliet was crying because she saw 'her' baby. This is also the reason why she will do anything to leave the island to be united with the child.

#415. Posted by: Adriaan at May 13, 2007 1:56 PM

@LuvLost - Butch IS (as in "IS") LAST.
Better check it again - by the way, I am retired and have nothing better to do :>)

@DocH, #384 - Can't speak for Clementine as she's off playing right field for the Pirates, but for myself - thank you for the nice comment.

@FenwayBen - ButchM, While I applaud your creativity, and bow humbly before the "last" master, let's hope this doesn't spur a trend of people copying and pasting comments from previous posts onto this one, we're almost up to 400 as it is! @Mac - How did we lose to the Orioles today?!? We NEVER lose to the O's...

You're right - we should stick to relative stuff, like baseball scores. Say, do you time for some "Gone With The Wind" trivia? What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that it was a one time thing - AND it was funny, as several other posters pointed out. AND, how else was I to convey the text of the message? I'm still smilin, dude :>)

Geeze meg, now I know how you felt when you were nibbled on about mif.

Thanks, FenwayBen for the info about the
Lindelof/Cuse airing next Thursday at 10:15 p.m. - I'm certainly looking forward to watching it.

@Matt Dralle, #409 - ok, I've thought about it. And that is some funny stuff.LOL

Happy Mother's Day to our beloved BENRY, leader of the Others. If he isn't a mother, then I don't know who is.

#416. Posted by: ButchM at May 13, 2007 3:29 PM

Juliet got emotional and cried because she misses her sister so much, and because she was so happy and moved to see she was really alive. Also because she saw her sister's dream (a child) as a reality. And she was overwhelmed when Ben told her the kid's name was Julien (ie, 'named after' Juliet...the male equivalent of her name). I think they would've clued us in a bit more if Juliet is infertile & her sister was trying to be a surrogate for her.

I LOVE the theory that the Lostie's know when the Others are coming, but Ben/the Others know that they know because of the missing tape player. Ben totally manipulated Locke into stealing the tape. Can't wait to see how it all plays out!

Danielle & her DYNO-MITE (shout out to JJ/Good Times...) is still the wildcard no one knows about. Except for Locke. And he's a bit preoccupied with other issues right now.

#417. Posted by: JoePike at May 13, 2007 4:01 PM

I am ALWAYS up for some "Gone with the Wind" Trivia! ;)
Sun seems to be a fan too, she's growing a garden so she'll "never go hungry again!"

Dude, the last line of your post had me laughing OUT LOUD! Very nice.

#418. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 13, 2007 4:09 PM

Just went back to see if, in fact, the "Hurley Bird" does appear in the season 1 finale. While I haven't come across that yet, I did find something of interest in the first several minutes of Exodus Part 1. Danielle arrives at the Losties camp to warn them that the others are coming. She tells them her story of how she got to the island. In this story, she says that she was 7 MONTHS pregnant when she gave birth, and that she (of course) delivered the baby herself. Could be a coincidence, but this is VERY similar to Ben's birth. And this is Lost, so it is highly unlikely it is a coincidence, even if it doesn't turn out to mean anything.

On a side note, she also mentions that there were 6 people on her ship, including herself, and that the Others took Alex when she was a week old.

Just a little refresher as we go into the end of this season...

#419. Posted by: Stocky at May 13, 2007 4:30 PM


Well, I had my doubts, but it appears you were right! In Exodus Part 2, there is a GIANT bird that squawks, and then flies out of the trees and off into the distance, and is does look an awful lot like the "Hurley Bird." Maybe it will make another appearance in this season's finale.

Something else I noticed in this episode (that I probably knew from before, but had forgotten about) -- when Sawyer is reading the letters from the message bottle, he finishes one and says "Who the hell is Hugo, and why is he leaving his mom $160 million?" Now at that time, Sawyer didn't know Hugo was Hurley. But we know for a fact he does now. I don't remember if he found out prior to this, but in one of the episodes after Sawyer loses the ping-pong match, he approaches Hurley and starts to call him by some nickname. Hurley stops him, says something to the effect of "Uh-uh -- remember dude, no nicknames. It's Hurley -- you can even call me Hugo if you want." So assuming Sawyer remembers the letter, he now knows Hurley was rich before he got to the island. Don't know if anyone ever pointed this out before or not, so I figured I'd mention it.

It's fun to go back and watch previous episodes and see something that ties into what's happening more recently, especially when it probably didn't mean much (as far as we knew) at the time.

#420. Posted by: Stocky at May 13, 2007 6:41 PM

@Stocky (419/420):

This is from the Lostpedia entry on the "Hurley Bird":

While in the Dark Territory, Hurley saw a huge bird of prey which convinced him that whoever came up with the name "Dark Territory" was "a genius." ("Exodus, Part 1")

While being led by Michael through the jungle, Michael, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley had a seemingly giant, green bird swoop down over their heads which screeches, what appears to be, Hurley. Hurley asked if the bird screeched his name and Sawyer replies "It sure did... right before it crapped gold". Michael attempted to shoot at the bird, revealing that the gun that Jack gave him was unloaded. ("Live Together, Die Alone")

According to the DVD subtitles, the bird screeches say "Hurley" in both appearances.

And in the entry for "bird calls":

In the January 9, 2006 Podcast, Damon and Carlton make reference to the bird. They call it the "Hurley Bird" because it sounds like it's screeching "Hurley!"

There are a bunch of theories about the "Hurley Bird" also posted, check em out if you are interested.

Heh, your last post was 420...

#421. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 13, 2007 8:06 PM

if someone brought this my bad, but i think our new pal jacob is mr. goodspeed himself looks like him 2 me with a goetee.sitting in the chair, (gray goetee)

#422. Posted by: T-spoon at May 13, 2007 8:58 PM

@ Mac : ""When it became clear that one side had to go, that one side had to be purged, I did what I had to do," Ben says, referring to Excuse No. 108 in the Genocide Forgiveness Handbook."

-Had me laughing out loud at the office (being a prosecutor, I'm used to hearing all sorts of excuses for all sorts of crimes...)

BTW, I was laughing Thursday but it took me untill today to finish reading the posts!!!

Referring to the review: "I was one of the people smart enough to make sure I didn't end up in that ditch," Ben says.

-Has me wondering which other members of DHARMA were "smart enough" to survive...Olivia (the teacher), Annie (for a while anyway if you think Ben made her pregnant)...

Horace Goodspeed: Another inspirational name.

Horace the poet - best known for the latin expression "Carpe Diem" or "Seize the day"

Goodspeed: Nicolas Cage's character in the movie The Rock (Or that other definition already given by another poster)

It's pretty clear to me that back in the day, the sub was only used to get from one part of the island to another ( a la "20 000 leagues under the sea" ride at Disney:

1- Why would DHARMA need to drug everybody (and they looked in better shape than Juliet getting off the sub) and

2- I agree with RNM that Roger was referring to a plane which for me makes sence as the "normal" way for getting to and from the island (plane splitting in 2 and crash-landing are extras only provided to paying customers...)

Jacob's house (aka "The love shack")

- Is it just me or did it look like the kind of place a hillbilly or a red neck man (pun intended) would feel quite at home in: Picture of a bloodhound (not Vincent he's a lab), a few mason jars of moonshine, a rocking chair, all that was missing was a twelve-gauge in Jacob's hands and the sound of dueling banjos playng in the background...

In parting, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Locke:

- The past has shown he's got somekind of super-healing power (or should I say the Island does...Naomi looked fine to me last week...) and I believe Ben knew this (which has me wondering what the little bugger is up to...)

- And if he is dead, well, they're on the island where you SEE dead people, so, not a problem. (Personnaly I think he'd be a great Obi-Locke to Sawyer)

Anyway, can't wait utill Wednesday (CWUW)

#423. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at May 13, 2007 9:25 PM


Horace Goodspeed was killed during the purge -- we see him sitting on the park bench, and Ben goes over and closes his eyes.

I actually thought this small gesture sort of showed that Ben was not as uncaring as we may think. This show of reverence toward Horace after his death, compared to that of his own dad (or lack thereof I should say), was very revealing. Ben could easily have blamed Horace for his being brought to the island to begin with, but he didn't. He cared more about Horace than his own father, probably because Horace actually seemed to care more about Ben than his own father did (this is evident from their initial contact on the dock, the conversation between Horace and Roger about Ben's education, etc.) I think in the end that Ben just saw all of the members of the Dharma Initiative as "collateral damage" with regards to his main objective -- his dad had to go.

As others here have pointed out, I think that's why he was so insistent to Locke that he ahd to kill his own father as well. He begins to feel threatened by Locke, and he knows Locke won't kill his own father. He is out to humiliate him in front of everyone, thus elevating his own status among the Others back to where it had been before. Only Locke ruined Ben's plan when he showed up with his dead dad (assisted by both Richard Alpert & Sawyer). It will be very interesting to see what happens when Ben tells the rest of the Others that Locke is dead, and then Locke winds up showing up at some point...

#424. Posted by: Stocky at May 13, 2007 9:28 PM

@ButchM: The Black Rock had a baseball team??

By the way, I think I've solved the mystery. I said before that Alpert could play Mr. Rourke in a spin-off, but the more I think about it, maybe Lost is the bizarro Fantasy Island. Rourke and Alpert never age, they bear some resemblance, the Losties are learning the error of their ways, and everybody's fantasy is turning out weird. And now Dharma is handing out leis at the dock. (Still waiting for Charlie to run into camp yelling "De helicopter! De helicopter!" but it could happen!) Jacob is the ghost of Aaron Spelling, trying to break through to give production advice.

And, yes, my intellect was severely stunted by too much 80s tv as a child. Time for bed!

#425. Posted by: Clementine at May 14, 2007 12:31 AM

They were originally the Black Rock Slavetraders, but concern over the inappropriateness of the name and logo in our modern era led them to change it to the Hostiles. This coincided with a uniform change from pirate gear to a J. Crew inspired look for home games and hillbilly chic for away games. Jerry Seinfeld is a fan, and once wore a throw back jersey on the Today Show. They are currently at the top of the standings, but the new expansion team this year, the Beachdwellers, are positioning themselves for a run at the pennant.

#426. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 14, 2007 12:59 AM

Some (maybe obvious) observations:
1. locke pushed to "sacrifice" his dead seams to connect to ben's experience killing his own dad as a kind of initiation ritus / price.
2. kelvin's work in the hatch was probably not disturbed by the purge, bc. the "hostiles" a) couldn't reach him bc. of the security system the hatch had, and therefore they wouldn't sacrifice men to get him out, and b) so they didn't really know what was going on in there. maybe they knew it was about magnetism. but they would have taken the hatch if they knew it could completely destroy their power over communication with the outside world (by failure in code entry). remember the effect the purple sky had on them at the dock? did they know what it meant?
3. I also come to think, ben and his "hostiles" somehow "invited" most of his people (as he said) "in the name of dharma" then turning them over as they arrived. How could he possibly find people to stack up his "team" if he raised as a child on the island, not having any connections to outsiders? ben has the outside world to think that dharma still exists (just look at those supply drops). and this disguise is easily done, since the island somehow blocks communication and contact. and there comes another one:
4. who provided whom with the purge's weapons? was is ben giving rifles and masks to his new friends or did they have them before? who are these people? former castaways? or were they summoned by the islands powers? alpert seemed very interested in ben's connection to the island. I don't give much on the theory about the island being "hell" or "purgatory", however compelling that sounds. How could richard alpert and ethan rom possibly escape hell by submarine? they acted as employees of mittelos in "real world", remember? so they obviously did the job to recruit new flesh. but: did they have the possibility to leave the island before they purged dharma?
5. the cable. as mentioned in rumours, the next airing episode comes with sayid handling a workout to rescue them. i suppose he connects the phone with something at that cable. my idea: the cable ends some miles away from the islands powers (magnetism?) at the sea, outside its influence, for communication reasons (maybe that was said before, didn't read it).

#427. Posted by: makake at May 14, 2007 2:35 AM

Questions: Has anyone figured out where the security fence is located on the blast door map? What are the other buildings surronding the Swan? Why would food drops take place outside of the fence? Do you think the 'security system' that Danielle refers to in the Dark Territory is run by Ben or left over Dharma people? Danielle said 'they' have control of the radio tower. Which group is that?

#428. Posted by: peb at May 14, 2007 8:22 AM

Just re-watched "Deus Ex Machina" (Locke loses power to walk and finds plane with Boone) & "Do No Harm" (Boone dies, Aaron is born) from season one.

In "Deus Ex Machina" Locke's flashbacks follow him finding his dad and giving up his kidney. I noticed that the man Locke hires to find out the info on his parents slides Locke a RED FILE FOLDER containing the info on his father. It is the exact same color of the file Locke receives from Alpert on James Ford. Again, maybe it's just a coincidence, or maybe the producers got a good price on RED file folders, as opposed to the more-commonly-used manilla colored folders, but it's possible that the red folder may indicate something more.

After watching "Do No Harm" it got me thinking about recent episodes. Locke keeps saying that Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. Maybe he's right -- maybe the island had to take a life in order to create a new one. Boone had to die so Aaron could be born. As far as we know, only two births have occurred on the island -- Alex (16 years ago, and Rousseau says she was 7 months pregnant when she gave birth to Alex) and Aaron (anyone remember how many months pregnant Claire was when they crashed? At the time of Aaron's birth, they've been on the island about 4 weeks). So maybe the island won't create new life until it finds another suitable sacrifice, and all pregnancies result in the death of both the mother and child. Maybe it is trying to take the mother as the sacrifice, but in doing so, inadvertantly kills the child as well.

#429. Posted by: Stocky at May 14, 2007 9:23 AM

not sure if anyone touched on this yet and since the last post i read was #331, i'm going to assume no one has.

what if rousseau is a part of jack's plan? in this weeks preview there is an explosion but its not clear who was behind the exlposion. it's possible she was gathering the dynamite for jack as well as herself.

just a thought since there are only two episodes left and a big showdown is coming, so what better way to do some damage than with a lot of dynamtie. :)

anyway, just thought i'd put the theory out there.

#430. Posted by: tiffai at May 14, 2007 9:48 AM

@408 Keith Michaels

Red DwaRf

#431. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 14, 2007 10:07 AM

@ bcre8ve (post 310)-
Please tell me you had to actually listen to MPATHG to write that up, because if you did it from memory, you rank right up there with the mighty Tim.
Oh, and by-the-way - that rabbit they used the holy hand granade on - could it be? The same one as Ben had? OMG!!

#432. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 14, 2007 10:33 AM

A point that has me thinking - what is the connection between Desmond and his button pushing, the psychic woman/monk, and the island?

It seems that Desmond was specifically brought there to do his task and is a counterpoint to the Hostiles (Ben). I can't believe Ben was unaware that Desmond was there for three years in the hatch.

Is the woman from the jewelry shop related to Jacob? Another manifestation? I'm very confused....

#433. Posted by: EthansGrrl at May 14, 2007 10:34 AM


I have answers but only a few.

previously posted>>It seems that Desmond was specifically brought there to do his task and is a counterpoint to the Hostiles (Ben). I can't believe Ben was unaware that Desmond was there for three years in the hatch.<<

Desmond was providing a service, conveniently, for everyone...pushing the button and allowing communication with the outside world. Desmond's back story and the button is one of the keys.

Cerebus is not the true name of the monster. Around here it's Esau. Further more, black and white imagery in season one will answer alot of questions. One particular "black and white" involving Locke is of particular significance.

The location of the Searchers, end of season 2, is an important clue.

Keep having fun!

#434. Posted by: tGates at May 14, 2007 11:48 AM

Tahnx, Stocky i missed that with goodspeed on the bench. But U know how LOST does its' thing, i think it was significant that ben/the writers makes it a point 2 show us that. (maybe so we could get a good look at him with the gotee)...or not. i also think the birthday thing could b that the HOSTLIES don't age Odv. (see richard). In the begining of the epi. ben asks rich if he REMEMBERS birthdays DONT' U . if they don't age maybe that's y the females can't have kids, they fail after the 2nd trimester, something in the body isn't right. Also the gray sand? it may keep Goodspeeds'/Jacobs' soul hostage. Goodspeed knows/thought ben was special"a least when he was a kid", at some point ben lost that quality. Now John-boy has it. Again it might not be goodspeed at all,i think it might be the HAIR of Jacob sitting in the chair.It just looks like him. Again i'm new 2 this if i'm rehashing old news my bad.

#435. Posted by: T -spoon at May 14, 2007 11:52 AM

Did anyone notice in the screenshot of Jacob sitting in the chair, that he only had 4 toes?

#436. Posted by: lostisgreat at May 14, 2007 12:06 PM

@FenwayBen/426: Thanks for the info. Sports references just go right over my head :) (Nice "six degrees of Seinfeld" puffy shirt tie-in. Everything can be related back to that show.)

#437. Posted by: Clementine at May 14, 2007 12:53 PM

GRAAM!! F*$&ing hilarious! I haven't posted anything on TMBC before now because the whole epi was incredibly overwhelming. After watching it twice and reflecting here's my one thought:

What if the "line of demarcation" (the ash circle) isn't to keep Jacob in, but to keep something else out? Like Smokey? What if, following the ideas of dualities, i.e. good and bad, black and white, etc., Jacob has two aspects, a "good" one and a "bad" one?

Cut to Jacob's backstory (whooooshhhh); he shipwrecks on Lost Island with the slave ship, Black Rock. He is welcomed by the natives who worship a god with 4 toes. He notices the natives never seem to die or get sick AND there are no children! He manages to gain access to the priests who ready him for a ceremony to give him ever-lasting life. Unfortunately, he has another agenda, he wants to take the secret with him and bring it to the rest of the world. The gods find out and as punishment, they split him in two. He continues to exist like this until Ben learns how to control him/them by keeping them apart. Smokey still wreaks havoc on the Island, but only to the "bad" people. (whoooooosshhhh) end of backstory.

What I find interesting is that Juliet stopped and let Smokey "scan" her. Maybe she knows this is part of the power of Smokey and wanted to know if she is evil--therefore doomed to be killed by Smokey--or whether she is good and spared.

We know Locke was scanned and judged good. Others haven't been so lucky. Maybe this is part of Locke's appeal to the Others/Hostiles? They know he's been seen by Smokey.

The whole "circle of protection" thing is really strange. The writers made sure we stayed good and long on the image of Locke examining the line, tasting it, smelling it and of Ben's pressing need to move on. I think this line is going to have major significance later in the show--and maybe not this season!

I think my theory was fired by some remark I read on another thread:

*******SPOILER ALERT!!!*******

I read the writers (I think) call Smokey, "Esau." Get ready for this!! Esau is the twin brother of Jacob!! Got this off the I-net:

"The name Edom (Idumea) was given to Esau, the first-born son of Isaac, and twin brother of Jacob, when he sold his birthright to the latter for a meal of lentil pottage." (www_mustardseed_net)

**********End Spoiler Alert********

Anyway, what do you guys think? Remember Sawyer reading "Bad Twin"? I think Smokey and Jacob are definitely connected. I also think the whispers are the gods talking about what's happening on the Island. They always come out when major changes are about to occur.

Don't wanna say, "can't wait for the next epi" because that just brings us that much closer to the end of Season 3. But, CWFTNE!


#438. Posted by: En Provence at May 14, 2007 1:30 PM

Oh, I'm so stupid!!! *hangs head in shame*

I just noticed it was HERE I read the "spoiler"


→ 434. Posted by: tGates at May 14, 2007 11:48 AM--"I have answers but only a few. Cerebus is not the true name of the monster. Around here it's Esau. Further more, black and white imagery in season one will answer alot of questions. One particular "black and white" involving Locke is of particular significance."

********End Spoiler********

Duh! I'm such a dork!! Sorry guys. That's what I get for reading too many forums and having no life. ;)


#439. Posted by: En Provence at May 14, 2007 1:40 PM

@312 Red...Neck...Man

This is GREAT, but if you think this is better than church, then you might need to find a new church...:o)

#440. Posted by: BELost at May 14, 2007 1:48 PM

Question for the Group:

Ben tells Locke that Jacob doesn't like technology any more than Locke does.

What indications (if any) have we previously seen that Locke doesn't like technology?

#441. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 14, 2007 1:58 PM

@ 441: whe he finds out that The Others have electricity. He's particularly mad at the fridge and the chicken in it :)

#442. Posted by: Mj at May 14, 2007 2:11 PM

I think Ben's remark to Locke about the technology is made because Locke said the the Others were cheating when they were living in modern house and using fridge's.

#443. Posted by: Sky at May 14, 2007 2:13 PM

@ Cecil Rose/#441: I remember Locke destroying a certain computer that was keeping everyone from 'certain death'. Computers are fairly technological. Also he lived at a weed-colony (I wanna live there soooo bad!) that was pretty primative. And maybe the technological advances in medicine that allow for successful kidney transplants from one to another is the root.

Or maybe he just sucked at Atari and couldn't solve Pitfall or something.

#444. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 14, 2007 2:15 PM

@Cecil Rose/441:

I think it's mainly in reference to Locke's comment about Ben "cheating" by using refrigerators and running water, and all the luxuries provided by modern technology, at the barracks (Bennsylvania/Dharmaville/whathaveyou...). Other than that, I don't think has really given an indication thathe hates technology -- he just disapproves of Ben's use of it on the island.

#445. Posted by: Stocky at May 14, 2007 2:16 PM

and why DID Ben's group leave all those luxury's behind? I mean the effects of the "knockout gas" they used on Jack/Kate/Juels(maybe) certainly must have worn off in a short amount of time. Why did they all leave and start camping out? Anyone?

#446. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 14, 2007 2:22 PM

Ya BunnyLover, I can't seem to figure that out either. They must be going somewhere specific. There must be another 'home-base'. The other point would be is that all of them? I don't think that all of Bennsylvania is hiking with Isabelle, no Karl, no mean-security-guard-who-watches-over-swing-set-bount-ex-Iraqi-Republican-Guard-type guy. They can't be using the entire hiking posse to attack the beach, can they? Ben wouldn't attempt the abductions himself, would he?

There is no way the attack of the beach will be a smash-n-grab. They'll hit first and distract all the powerful people that run to protect. Then all the women will be scooped up from behind. They are all so screwed no matter what....unless.....Sayid really was digging for the tunnel system, found it, and they dump all the women down there before the attack. Then the Others would show up, seeing no women to take, then say something that only Moe Syzlak would say..WWHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?

#447. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 14, 2007 2:32 PM

JINN Theory update :

Following the “I Do” episode, I posted a theory that Smokey the Island Monster is a JINN (a.k.a. Djinn, jinni, genie) whose existence on the island predates Dharma.

I got the idea when I learned that Andrew Divoff’s was cast as Patchy (Mikhail). Before LOST, his most notable role was a Jinn in the film WishMaster. Made me wonder if the screening of WishMaster by LOST producers led to his casting.

Now, after watching the Jacob scene, I’m even more convinced that Jinn are at least partially behind the Island Mythology.

Some bullets about Jinn support the idea:

- The word jinn literally means: "hidden or veiled from sight" (The island? Jacob?)

- Jinn are beings, possessing free-will and the ability to be good and bad. (A big theme of LOST)

- Jinn are very similar to us. They eat, drink, marry, have children and die.

- Their life span is far greater then ours - Jinn can live about 1,000 years

- Jinn are said to have been the first of Earth's masters, building huge cities whose ruins still stand in forgotten places.

- A Jinn's natural form is composed of fire or smoke. (Jacob? Smokey?)

- Jinn are usually invisible to us, although Jinn can appear in the shape of any being.

- Jinn often take on human and animal shapes to influence men and have led people astray by appearing in the forms of people who are dead.

- Jinn move extremely fast and are not bound by the time and space constraints within which we normally move.

- Strength of faith will prevent Jinn from harming a person. (Locke?)

- Jinn are said to be controllable by binding them to objects, known as a talisman. (like the genie and lamp)

- An imprisoned Jinn is required to provide services for its captor. However, Jinn do not have the power to alter reality and can not truly grant wishes.

- They are quick to punish those who do not follow their many rules. (Juliet's "trial")

- Jinn are able to interbreed with humans but the human parent may die or suffer when the offspring is born.

- When a human and a Jinn mate the offspring will possess some of the traits common to the Jinn. (The island's original inhabitants? Richard Alpert?)

- If a Jinn takes on shape and is observed, it is confined for as long as the eye continues to look at it. Having no place to disappear, it manifests a form, then makes the person believe that the form has left in a particular direction. When the person’s eyes follow the form, the Jinn leaves its confinement and vanishes. As it disappears, the form vanishes from the sight of the one who is following it with his eye.

#448. Posted by: vacc at May 14, 2007 3:16 PM

WOW Vacc - you may have just solved all the mysteries of LOST (Jacob/Smokey that is.) Excellent information and thanks for sharing. Now I have to do some research on "Jinn." And is it coincedental that Jin's name is, well, Jin?

#449. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 14, 2007 3:26 PM

WOW again! Read the info on Wikipedia about Jinn's. Amazing. Also note that if Jacob/Smokey is a Jinn (Gennie) it would also explain how the "majic box" can produce "whatever you wish for" - like Ben told Locke.
Vacc I really think you've hit on something big here.

#450. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 14, 2007 3:36 PM

@ vacc/#448: Not bad. I sure could use a Jinn & Tonic after that.

And on a more serious note, Mikhail's most notable role was obviously as Luis Cali in 1991's Toy Soldiers.

#451. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 14, 2007 3:37 PM


While fighting terrorists with a hobbit and Wesley Crusher of the Starship Enterprise is admirable, I thought his most notable role was as Mendoza, the guy who fights Keenan Ivory Wayans in A Low Down Dirty Shame...

#452. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 14, 2007 4:07 PM

jacob must be John! however, Jacob/John can no longer walk and this is why he is sat in a chair. Also; Jacob/John is Bens prisoner and has not been able to shave his hair (whats left of it) or his beard, again this explains the high def imagery.

#453. Posted by: duncanthorpe at May 14, 2007 4:27 PM

We still don't know what the 'incident' was that is referred to in the film. That had to happen before the purge, right?

#454. Posted by: peb at May 14, 2007 5:00 PM


#455. Posted by: redhotryan at May 14, 2007 5:20 PM

@Clementine - ButchM: The Black Rock had a baseball team??

Nah, it was a crazy reference to Roberto Clemente, former Pittsburgh Pirates right fielder, what with your name being similar. That's funny that you were confused. :>)

However, FenwayBen put a whole new face on the baseball comment, and his description of the "team" in #426 is rip-snorting hilarious.

@FenwayBen - Hattie McDaniel (I have telepathy and sense that you are asking me who played the role of Mammy in GWTW).

#456. Posted by: ButchM at May 14, 2007 5:25 PM

Hey ButchM :) being a native Pittsburgher, I actually did get your Clemente reference, just thought the Pirates/pirates thing was ironic. But if we're fielding a team, I wanna be shortstop, not right field!

#457. Posted by: Clementine at May 14, 2007 5:58 PM

and it aaaaaaaaalllllllllll comes back to Red...Neck...Man. Turns out the suggestion for a Bloggers All Star Team formed by mac at the end of the year might just be in order.

So Jacob = Shoeless Joe Jackson? If the last line of the season turns out to be, 'This isn't's Iowa' I'm gonna be a little peeved.

All Jacob predictions to the Lost Question of the Week...AWAAAAYYYYY!

#458. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 14, 2007 6:48 PM

Hello gang, I have been trying to see the screen caps of "Jacob". Can anyone provide the link to this?. By the way, for the series finale, John is going to wake up and find Bobby Ewing in the shower. Don't say you were not warned. :-)

#459. Posted by: Jimmy Allen at May 14, 2007 6:53 PM

@Jimmy Allen/459

The following site is good for all kinds of screen caps, and there is a page with spoilers as well. The conversation on the blogs about them isn't nearly as interesting as Mac's blog, though. (replace * with .)


As for Bobby Ewing in the shower...don't give the writers any ideas!

When I first went into exile from Beantown I lived in Squirrel Hill. Small world, huh? Back then you could see the Pirates at Three Rivers for $2, and if you got there early enough you could watch them vaccuum the "field"


That actually is kinda funny, I wasn't gonna throw you THAT easy of a question, but it was Hattie McDaniel related! McDaniel (who won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her role as Mammy) won raves 3 years earlier in a supporting role in which film? HINT: Many say this role led to the Academy creating the Supporting categories the very next year, since at the time there was no way to recognize McDaniel's performance.

Alice Adams :) I am FULL of useless trivia.

#460. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 14, 2007 7:14 PM

Couldn't someone just look at the credits for "man behind the curtain" and see who played Jacob? Or does it not say?

#461. Posted by: brandon massey at May 14, 2007 7:45 PM

@Brandon 461

It does not. Normally, only speaking roles are listed in the credits. Jacob may have spoken, but I have read it was Carlton Cuse's voice that said "Help Me", not any actor who happened to manage the 12 frames or so worth of air time.

#462. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 14, 2007 7:52 PM

@ FenwayBen:

Hope yunz enjoiyed yur time in Da Burgh! Tree Rivers is goiwn, but PNC Park is a beaut! Stop back an have yurselve an Arn City n’at when yur in tawn.

#463. Posted by: Clementine at May 14, 2007 8:09 PM

@Clementine/#463: Too funny! My husband's family is from the Pittsburgh area...meeting them was the first time I was exposed to words/expressions like "nebby"; "jaggers"; "redd up the house"; & "slippy."

Too bad Jacob only had two words of dialogue w/no accent or regional possibility of telling where he's from. ; )

#464. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at May 14, 2007 9:27 PM

Comment on Smokey:
When Juliet and Kate are fleeing Smokey, it is stopped inside the sonic fence, on the Others' side.
But we know Smokey has gone beyond the fence to attack the Losties (ex. Eko).
If Smokey is somehow confined by an active sonic fence, like a dog collar to an invisible fence system, then someone must let him through it to roam the island.
So Smokey is not Jacob. But he may be Jacob's hound from Hell.

#465. Posted by: welh at May 15, 2007 10:55 AM

Did anybody catch the fact that the code for turning off the fence changes every morning "the numbers on the piece of paper young ben was holding." Could it be it's the amount of time spent or days on the isle. The guy in the orentation vid. says this. Annie=Russo. I won't be shocked if we see Russo pull out her Ken ben doll from her Tomb Raider bag.

#466. Posted by: T -spoon at May 15, 2007 1:03 PM

Dang that was a lot of posts to read!

welh--I thought Smoky was stopped outside the others' compound. The way Juliet was so scared of it, I would assume the fence is there to keep it out.

I'm wondering if Ben is using Juliet and the tape to give the Losties a false time and place for the attcak so that he can surprise them. It would also help him figure out who is and isn't loyal to him i.e. if Richard were to have helped John obtain the tape.

A thought about the Black Rock. Someone brought up the possiblity of the ship being a ship taking prisoners to Australia. It would make sense that perhaps prisoners revolted and took control of the ship. The "slaves" chained up in the hold might actually have been the ship's crew and guards.

Some posters took issue with the Sarin gas being used in open air. I would think depending how potent the gas is that it would be pretty deadly. I think about all of our troops when they invaded Iraq back when we thought Iraq might actually have WMD and chemical weapons. Every time there was an Iraqi attack, everyone was putting on their gas masks. Even out in open air such chemicals are pretty devastating. Seems like an awful lot of people were killed in WWI with gas out in the open air.

I like the idea that was brought up of the ring of ash being Smoky when he is at rest. I also agree that Smoky is related to Jacob somehow like being Esau the twin. That makes a lot of sense as well.

#249 mac--I'm assuming you meant the new Starbuck and not Dirk Benedict.

I think Ben still hears Jacob but he's jealous that john can as well. I think people can maybe only hear him if he is addressing them directly. Locke couldn't hear what Jacob said to Ben. Ben couldn't hear "help me"

The fire in the cabin is curious as it seems to disappear part way through the scene. After a certain point you see no light or color from it or flicker or anything. Then the lanter isn't broken when he comes out. It's almost as if there are alternate realities or timelines playing out within that one cabin.

Maybe when Uncle Rico attempted to throw the football over the mountains, it travelled through a space time vortex so Jack could catch it in the present. Maybe it was really Uncle Rico he was playing catch with and not Tom!

#467. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 15, 2007 1:24 PM

A thought about the death pit

Alex gave Locke a gun before he left with Ben to see Jacob. Does she know that nobody returns after seeing Jacob and she wants Locke to survive? Did the bodies in the pit come from Ben killing them after seeing jacob and not the purge? Remember it showed one f them with a bullet hole in the forhead.

#468. Posted by: btly at May 15, 2007 2:11 PM

"Flashes Before Your Eyes" has the scene of Desmond leaving the Widmore building. He is shown removing his necktie. A lady passes behind him wearing a long black coat with a long white neck scarf. She goes from screen right to screen left, just after he passes. The Widmore Industries plaque is in plain sight behind them. I swear this is our Naomi.
Can anyone check this out?

#469. Posted by: Len at May 15, 2007 2:20 PM

What if Ben wants the Losties to know an attach is coming so he can get rid of the people he thinks are not loyal to him. He sends them in first, they all get killed, then he has only the ones left that are loyal. He has setup people to show if they are loyal by giving information that is then passed on so he know who gave this information out.

#470. Posted by: michael at May 15, 2007 3:22 PM


There, no screen tipping on my part. So looks like we have another double bluff from the producers. First, there is rampant speculation that Charlie would die in "Greatest Hits". After all, Desmond has been having visions of Charlie dying ever since the Hatch blew, and often main characters die in episodes featuring their own flashbacks. Then, imdb left Dom off the cast list for the finale, "Through the Looking Glass". Goner for sure right? Next, the televised promo for "Greatest Hits" has Desmond telling Charlie something like "this time, you've got to die". Yup, confirms everything, right? Not so fast! the imdb cast list for "Through the Looking Glass" now INCLUDES Dom on it. So does he show up in a flashback scene? Does he live after all? Is this just a piece of misinformation? I don't know what game the producers are playing at, but I am loving every minute of it!

#471. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 15, 2007 3:57 PM


But if those who were disloyal gave the Losties the information, and knew they'd be expecting an attack, they wouldn't go in first...

I don't think that Ben assumes the losties have the tape. He never did find out what happened to it. He just knows Richard never took it back to the medical hatch like he was supposed to. He will probably remember Locke saw him with it, but at best he may think Locke took it. But Ben went so far as to TELL Locke what the others were planning, so I doubt he'd think Locke would have taken it. He probably would have asked Locke about it after he shot him if he did think Locke took it. And unless he's had Locke followed around the island, Ben would have no way of knowing that Locke gave the recorder to Sawyer, and thus he wouldn't know the Losties would be expecting their attack, UNLESS he knew Juliet would betray him and tell them. Either way, I'm expecting a very violent season finale.

On a side note, I'm still thinking that there could possibly be SOMEONE ELSE on this island. Ben's comment to Michael as he was letting him leave in the Season 2 finale:

Michael: "Who ARE you people?"
Ben: "We're the good guys Michael..."

If they are the good guys, then who are the BAD guys?!? We now know Dharma isn't around anymore (at least on the island), so unless he's referring to the Losties and each of their questionable pasts, or he's talking about someone who is not actually on the island, who could possibly be the BAD guys?

#472. Posted by: Stocky at May 15, 2007 4:06 PM


This post itself doesn't contain spoilers, but I want everyone to be aware that a massive, enormous, mind-blowing spoiler is going around and I highly suggest that if you absolutely do not want to be spoiled in any way possible, be VERY CAREFUL visiting spoiler sites in the next couple weeks.

The spoiler I've seen (yes, I looked) is so big I have decided not to post it, nor will I allow it to remain in the comments section if someone else posts it (no offense -- it's just too big to let through).

I hope this warning keeps the non-spoiler folks happy, because oh mama, is this a bigun (if it's true ...)

#473. Posted by: mac at May 15, 2007 4:10 PM

Mac's right -- the spoilers are huge! I read them too (couldn't resist). There's been a lot of speculation, but it looks like the finale will be an action packed 2-hours filled with twists and turns that none of us has ever thought of! The TV advertisements keep telling us to watch for the "cataclysmic season finale". I can't wait!

#474. Posted by: Linda at May 15, 2007 4:24 PM

Mac, say it aint so. You read the Spoiler? I look forward to your blog because you don't know what is going to happen and you speculate just like us. Oh well.

#475. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at May 15, 2007 4:41 PM

I'm a little no want that spoiler!

#476. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 15, 2007 4:46 PM

Oh Jon, I hate to burst your bubble but I've always been a spoiler fan, even back in my X-files days. I certainly don't have anything against non-spoiler folks, but for me the fun is always seeing how they *arrive* at a destination. Knowing what the destination is doesn't really detract from my experience.

#477. Posted by: mac at May 15, 2007 5:01 PM

"There, no screen tipping on my part."

Your spoiler was indeed nicely symmetric. As I scrolled down to read the rest of your post, however, the weight of your generous application of [SHIFT]8 made it difficult for my scroll mouse button to push the paragraph up. I had to result to brute force - i.e. actually pointing, clicking and pushing the scroll bar. Once I got your post to the top, the monitor became top heavy and fell forward nearly missing my Cocoa Puffs.

@RNM - Question for next week: Who's punching bag will Patchy be next week?

BTW, Official Patchy Fan Club Symbol:

#478. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 15, 2007 5:20 PM

Oops! I mean, "...nearly missing my Crispy Sea Planes." Yeah, that's right, Cocoa Puffs suck, Crispy Sea Planes rule!

#479. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 15, 2007 5:37 PM

@FenwayBen - if you had a twin brother, I have a good blog name for him. How about "The Green Monster?"

****BELOW IS BORING**to other posters
@Clementine - What part of Pittsburgh? I'm originally from McKeesport, which is 13 miles southeast from Pgh. Been living in Ohio for years, but still am a Steelers fan!!!!

@FenwayBen - Hattie McDaniel - was it Show Boat? I'm just guessing. Geeze, so you are another Pittsburgher. I've been to Squirrel Hill a dozen or so times, but not in 40 years. It sounds as if you might be close to my age (63).
I've seen the Buccos play for 2 bucks or so many times way back when. Remember the "Green Weenie?" How about Benny Benack?

@FenwayBen -
hey, younse guys, this is straight from my $18.95 "Pittsburghese" jersey ...
jumbo (bologna, but not the good Dr.)
worsh clothes
No, J'ew? (no, did you?)
jynt igle (popular super market)
chipped ham (in Ohio, I must ask for chopped, chipped ham to get what I want).
aht (ought)
malk (milk)

@Red...Neck...Man - The last line of the season may be "Build it and they will come." Or Jack may ask, "Wanna play a game of catch?"

@Len, #469 - if it's a scarf, it must be Cindy. *mif*

@bcre8ve - Official Patchy Fan Club Symbol: P-(

I love it!

#480. Posted by: ButchM at May 15, 2007 6:23 PM

I couldn't resist but look at the spoilers that have been going around.

For those of you who want to be spoiled, check out "". There is some really interesting comments by people dealing with this episode and the next, as well as confirmation about who will die, which regular member comes back next episode, etc. I'm still taking all that was said with a grain of salt because who knows what the LOST producers have up their sleeves for sure...

For those who are faithful and do not wish to cheat a little bit, stay away from that website...whether it is true or not, there is defintely information there that answers questions and is very revealing

#481. Posted by: Anonymous at May 15, 2007 6:43 PM

I am so conflicted about reading the spoilers or not...usually I don't mind if I find out, but if it is something THIS big...

I hope Bernard gets to kick the snot out of Patchy next, they never give him anything interesting to do!

(everyone else can skip to the next post or run the risk of being bored beyond belief)

Hate to break it to you, but I am actually only 32. Those two dollar tickets? That was in 2000, the last year of Three Rivers. Sold out for every Steelers' game, but you couldn't guve a Buc's ticket away until the final home series. I gotta say, I do miss Permante Bros and those Eat n Park cookies!

Also, I included the answer in the post, it was Alice Adams (starring Kate Hepburn and Fred McMurray before he had three sons). Hey, Chip Douglas would make a great Jacob!

#482. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 15, 2007 7:31 PM

The outside world still believes the Dharma Initiative exists.

This is the reason for why little Ben had to be so patient -- so that he could grow up, learn the secrets of the Dharma Initiative and become a duel leader over Dharma and the Others (who now pass as Dharma employees).

This would explain why the Others have powers in the outside world (i.e. bringing Locke's Father to the island). New Dharma recruits are actually new Other recruits. It would also explain why Richard put Ben in control -- because of his affiliation with Dharma.

#483. Posted by: allissa at May 15, 2007 8:31 PM

@mac: Thank you *very much* for the spoiler warning. I’ll be avoiding other sites until after the finale. (Now if I can just keep my co-workers from spilling the beans.)

To throw in another Pittsburgh reference: “An-tic-i-pation, is makin’ me wait!” (Heinz ketchup)

*********Speaking of Pittsburgh*********


Wow! So happy to see all the great hometown connections and memories! I live north of the city (Mars, Pa), but I work “dahntahn,” and all of us Southwestern PA folks consider ourselves Pittsburghers. Very proud of Da Burgh! Go Bucs, Go Pens, Go Stillers!

You just made a great blog even better for me. Thanks yinz.

And here’s a website for anyone interested in our very unique style of communication (it even has a translator, if you plan to visit our fair city and are afraid of the natives):


*********Picksburg aht!*********

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…just reading back to some of the comments I missed, and the JINN Theory/448 was amazing. I probably should be posting this under the “Jacob is…” section (sorry RNM), but I’m now completely sold on Jacob/Smokey as a genie. (And I always loved “The Monkey’s Paw” by W.W. Jacobs)

From the Wiki site: “In mythology, jinn have the ability to possess human beings, both in the sense that they persuade humans to perform actions, and in that of the Christian perception of demonic possession.” Look out, John Locke!

#484. Posted by: Clementine at May 15, 2007 10:56 PM

@mac: Forgot to add a Thank You to our Beantown Blogger for your patience with the off-topic discussion. I'm back on track now, I promise: LOST, LOST, LOST!

#485. Posted by: Clementine at May 15, 2007 11:42 PM

@Clementine: No worries at all. Nothing wrong with a little civic pride ;)

#486. Posted by: mac at May 15, 2007 11:48 PM

Well I read the spoilers for the season episode at, and I've got to say, 'Is that It!' How boring, unexciting and uninspiring.

Maybe I'll consider even to stop watching Lost now if those spoilers pan out correct.

Lost appears to be going the way of the 1990s show 'Twin Peaks', where the producers and writers, writing new material at the same time of filming, got Lost making up their lame, going nowhere, around in circles story!

#487. Posted by: Keith Michaels at May 16, 2007 3:35 AM

@465 welh said:

>When Juliet and Kate are fleeing Smokey, it is stopped inside the sonic fence, on the Others' side.

I got the opposite impression, that Jukliet and Kate were *outside* the fence, and fled back *inside* before Juliet turned the fence on. After all, from there they proceeded back to the barracks without crossing the fence again. Smokey apparently has a short attention span, since the whole group was later to pass outside the fence unmolested on the way to the beach, Wonder if Juliet demonstrated fence control to the whole group at that time?

@481 Anonymous said:

>For those who are faithful and do not wish to cheat a little bit, stay away from that website...whether it is true or not, there is defintely information there that answers questions and is very revealing

This is beginning to sound a lot like B'rer Rabbit. "Please don't /t/h/r/o/w/ /m/e/ go in that briar patch."

#488. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 16, 2007 3:43 AM

mac - on which website did you read those spoilers? I'm an addict, and I need my fix, man, pleeease tell me!!

Or, send it to me through my email address - you have access to those, right?

#489. Posted by: meg at May 16, 2007 8:29 AM

Thanks for the spoiler alert Mac...I usually am into them throughout the season, but there are so few surprises in life that I'd like to go into the finale without knowing the 'bigun'.

@487 Keith:
Funny you feel that way, as the producers/writers seem to me to be doing everything in their power to avoid 'Twin Peak syndrome'. I'll be looking for your comments in 2010...!

I'm still surprised that Locke didn't take the major hint from Alex when she gave him the gun. By giving him the gun she was effectively saying, "Dad plans to kill you. Here's a gun to protect yourself. Don't turn your back on him." Apparently Locke has trouble reading between the lines!

#490. Posted by: JoePike at May 16, 2007 8:42 AM

Rumors are that the ‘cable’ will be in the upcoming episode(s). Beginning with Sayid finding it in S1 through Jin re-locating it during the camping trip a few weeks…well, the special effects reflect ignorance! A cable weighs 4 or 5 lbs. per foot (length, not related to 4 toes). Then why do we have all these characters tossing it around like an old garden hose? Ugh!

#491. Posted by: JT at May 16, 2007 8:45 AM

Down with Cocoa Puffs!! I sure hope all you folks aren't seeing other cereals behind my back now!

#492. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 16, 2007 8:57 AM

come on someone, give me a good link. I looked at the one posted earlier, but what I saw there was no big deal - stuff like...we are going to learn more about???? We won't find out about????

#493. Posted by: meg at May 16, 2007 9:21 AM

@meg: check your email. I just sent you a link.

#494. Posted by: mac at May 16, 2007 9:36 AM

Remember there is another who has a special relationship with the Island who has been healed the same as Locke.

Her name is Rose.

What happens when Ben discovers there is another?

Rose may be more spiritually advanced than Locke because she is "centered" while Locke is off.

#495. Posted by: genepools at May 16, 2007 9:54 AM

"That boy was our last hope."

"No. There is another."

Maybe Locke will die and Rose will become the key to everything. Doubt it though.

#496. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 16, 2007 9:59 AM

To all the Pittsburgh peeps: I'm pretty sure Jacob will turn out to be Fransisco Cabrera...ring a bell? Ya, I grew up in Atlanta so a guy's gotta dream, right? And Sid Bream would be Locke cause of the crappy legs. Ben is Stan Belinda.

#497. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 16, 2007 10:04 AM

Doesn't look like Naomi or Cindy to me.

BTW, I am so jonesing for a spoiler fix. I wanna hit so bad!!! But I am resisting temptation. Only 10 hours and 52 min now!!! Ohh, its gonna be a long day!

#498. Posted by: BELost at May 16, 2007 10:09 AM

Locke and Rose seperated at birth...

Good thing they didn't kiss on that first season beach scene...

#499. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 16, 2007 10:11 AM

My head is spining. I think I need to smoke a cigarrette now, and I don't even smoke!!

I truly hope that whatever we learn soon about Rose and Bernard is awesome. Seems like it will have to be. I really can't see them coming in, after being gone so long, with a minor role.

Okay - 12 hours to go - I'll never make it!

#500. Posted by: meg at May 16, 2007 10:11 AM

496 - crispy seaplanes.

That was the quote I had in mind.

#501. Posted by: genepools at May 16, 2007 10:20 AM

mif - meg is five hundreth

#502. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 16, 2007 10:23 AM

Thanks for the painful memories...and we (Pirates) haven't done anything since!

#503. Posted by: JT at May 16, 2007 10:33 AM

I don't think the Others and Ben will be all that interested in Rose. They already know that the island cures/prevents Cancer (and don't bring up the whole "Benry had cancer" thing- he had a Tumor, and we have no way of knowing if it was benign or malignent). So Rose being healed should be nothing new to them, whereas a man who was paralyzed and now walks, maybe that is just a bigger deal to them.

Now, I do believe that Rose and Bernard will play a significant role at some point. With all the black/white symbolism within the show, it only seems natural that our resident mixed-race couple will have an important role to play.

And Mac, thanks for informing us about the new spoiler. I've always liked to check out spoilers, until I read ahead of time that there would be a scene in which Jack tosses around a football in Bensylvania with the others. When that scene aired, it should have been a shocking WTF moment, but since I knew it was coming, it was a little anti-climactic. Since then, I've decided I'd rather be surprised (especially around Finale time). So thanks for letting us know the big spoilers are out there, but not dropping any hints here : )

And congrats on another record-breaking week of posts, people!

#504. Posted by: sarah c at May 16, 2007 10:51 AM

@bcre8ve - Wow, when I looked at the post number a minute ago I thought - wow, it went over 500, I wonder who was number 500? ... and it was "I" all along! :) MIFWET Meg IsFive-hundreth Without Even Trying

Yes, I don't really see Ben being interested in Rose. Rose and Bernard, although fascinating at one point when they both survived on opposite sides of the island, are actually pretty dull.

#505. Posted by: meg at May 16, 2007 11:42 AM

@BElost #71

Yeah it gave me goosebumps and shivers and couldn't sleep for a half hour that night just thinking about the episode and that scene.

I was hoping LOST would have a logical scientific explanation or a sci-fi one. Not sure how I feel if it goes the supernatural route. Not saying thats bad I have a few theories such as Garden of Eden (Smokey equal flaming sword or cherubim) or some sort of Egyptian/Atlantis groove.

#506. Posted by: Jion at May 16, 2007 12:03 PM

@meg: check your email. I just sent you a link.

→ 494. Posted by: mac at May 16, 2007 09:36 AM

Can I get this link sent to my email address? Thank you.

#507. Posted by: michael at May 16, 2007 12:05 PM

@mac : pleeease, send me this link. I did'nt find it. I'm filled with possible spoilers already, my mind spinning. Can't resist, need to read it myself.

#508. Posted by: makake at May 16, 2007 12:20 PM

Something just occurred to me -- now that Locke's dad/the real Sawyer is dead, we may not be seeing Sawyer/James Ford for too much longer. I mean, what else can we learn about Sawyer? Short of his budding "relationship" with Kate, or maybe some more insight into his daughter and Cassidy, what more is there we need to know about Sawyer?

I like his character and all, and I'd hate to see him go, but it appears to me that his story has been told, and that he has now fulfilled his own sense of purpose, so I think we may see the end of him shortly...

#509. Posted by: Stocky at May 16, 2007 12:22 PM

According to the old testament Jacob is Benjamin’s Father. Benjamin was Jacob First Son Born in Israel, or Canaan. Jacob's Wife also died giving birth to Benjamin. See any parallels here. Jacob will probably end being nothing but Ben inability to deal with killing his own father, and the Island helped to manifest Jacob. John and Ben have hating and killing their fathers in common. Ben/Jacob obviously need help deal with the life he has on the island.

#510. Posted by: Jake at May 16, 2007 1:58 PM

I'm wondering if one of Ben's reasons for shooting Locke is the fact that he probably figured out that Locke double-crossed him/them by handing over the recording to the Losties...this will probably lead to a suprise attack ahead of schedule.

I like that Jinn theory also for Smokey...

See you all tomorrow!!!

BTW: At least there's one advantage of living in Canada: we get to watch the show at 8:00 on CTV and then get to watch it again at 10:00 on ABC (which my wife doesn't understand btw...)

..."Cataclysmic season finale"...

Reminds me of something a well known Scott use to say:

"If I push her any harder captain, she's gonna blow"


#511. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at May 16, 2007 2:32 PM

With all this talk of a jinn, does that mean that the next person to parachute onto the island is Maj. Anthony Nelson? Which would mean that Jeannie is trapped somewhere (Jeannie=Jacob?). And we can then conclude that Smokey is the Blue Jinn! If all this plays out we'll find out that Alvar Hanso is actually Dr. Bellows...duh-Duh-DUH!!!

#512. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 16, 2007 2:37 PM

[DELETED BY EDITOR -- don't post spoilers without warning and DO NOT post spoilers about the finale]

#513. Posted by: Mindboggled at May 16, 2007 2:44 PM

Was it ironic that his NAME was Scotty and he WAS a Scot? Imagine what the blogs would have made of that if they had existed in the 1960's!

As far as Smokey being Jin, well they have never appeared on screen together, so I guess it's a possibility. Maybe that's why Sun wanted to leave him for Kareem Abdul Lee?
It would be cooler if Smokey was some kind of magical creature instead! ;)

#514. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 16, 2007 2:57 PM

#513- That is a spoiler. Why would you write that? Mac, please block that D bag Mindboggled.

#515. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at May 16, 2007 3:00 PM

Just to clarify...

I don't think Smokey is Jin (a.k.a. husband of Sun).

I think Smokey is a JINN/djinn/genie (a.k.a. magical creature).

But could Patchy Mikhail be the bizarro Major Nelson?

Now I can't get the "I Dream of Jeannie" music out of my head. Thanks, Alex (Not Rousseau)!

#516. Posted by: Clementine at May 16, 2007 3:05 PM

@516 Anytime Clementine! I just can't believe over 60 posts went by after the jinn was first mentioned without someone bringing up "I Dream of Jeannie". I must be getting old. P-(

#517. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at May 16, 2007 3:11 PM

@FenwayBen: Sorry, the irony of your comment just arrived. It must have been obstructed by our firewalls here at work. (Surely not operator error!)

@Mindboggled: Shame on you! Shame, shame, shame!

#518. Posted by: Clementine at May 16, 2007 3:16 PM

@Clementine, no worries! Just lightening up the posts to keep myself from going stir crazy since I still have almost 12 hours before air time here...

BTW, Walt just stopped by, he was speaking backwards, but I think he was telling me that Magnum PI is going to find Locke in the jungle, Dan-o is gonna book Ben for the shooting, and the Love Boat will stop by on a South Pacific cruise in time for Adam (Aka "Doc") to fix up Locke. Special guest cruiser Charo will prove to unwittingly hold the key to a power struggle, while Isaac makes a mean mai-tai at the boar roast. Meanwhile, the rest of the others continue their cross island hike to the North Shore Boarding House. Surf's up!

#519. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 16, 2007 3:27 PM

With all this talk of Smokey and Jacob, I am trying to remember what exactly it was that killed the pilot in the beginning of Season 1. Was that Smokey?

#520. Posted by: Jane at May 16, 2007 3:46 PM

Well, Walt doesn't speak to me (backwards or forwards), but the whispers seem to be saying that Jan-Michael Vincent (Naomi's copilot) will be arriving shortly to lay the smack down on #513!

#521. Posted by: Clementine at May 16, 2007 3:52 PM

@Clementine: Extra points for an "Airwolf" reference!

#522. Posted by: mac at May 16, 2007 3:55 PM

@ Clementine/531

I heard Mr T. and the rest of the A-Team came along for the ride, just for good mesure...

#523. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at May 16, 2007 4:03 PM

Speaking of Jan Michael Vincent--didn't he start out on the Banana Splits in "Danger Island"? Ooooh, spooky!

BTW mac--Blue Thunder kicks Airwolf's ass!

#524. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 16, 2007 4:12 PM

Actually if we're talking aircraft in general, I was always partial to Cutter's Goose.

Also I'm pretty sure Jacob/Smokey is Manimal.

#525. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 16, 2007 4:15 PM

Crispy, everyone knows Thunderbirds are go! Keep your Blue Thunder...

#526. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 16, 2007 4:16 PM

I'll take Snoopy's dog house any day!

#527. Posted by: bcre8ve at May 16, 2007 4:47 PM

bil - maybe!

#528. Posted by: ButchM at May 16, 2007 5:32 PM

Wonder if Sun dreams of Jin?

Meg - congrats on being 500th! Doesn't make me feel so bad for being 1st on the LOST: Jacob is......? thread.

BLILFN (BunnyLover Is Last For Now)

#529. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 16, 2007 5:33 PM

BunnyLover is penultimate (next to last)

#530. Posted by: ButchM at May 16, 2007 5:38 PM

I'll take Airwolf over Blue Thunder any day! It is amazing that Airwolf could launch mavericks, Bullpups, Harpoons, and anything else out of 3" missile tubes. The aircraft was magical.

#531. Posted by: onelostdude at May 16, 2007 6:06 PM

“Stringfellow Hawke...a loner who lives in a cabin in the mountains, only accompanied by his dog Tet, and the surrounding wildlife. Hawke is a recluse, spending most of his time alone with his priceless painting collection” and jars of red goop! Jan-Michael Vincent is Jacob.

CIL (Clem is last) but I can feel ButchM lurking

#532. Posted by: Clementine at May 16, 2007 7:00 PM

On a semi-serious note, was anyone paying attention during "Expose"? I know I have blocked most of it from my memory ("Worst episode ever!"), but all this talk of cheesy TV shows jogged my memory. Nikki was guesting on "Expose", trying to find out who the hidden, unseen bad guy was, only to find out that the bad guy was Billy Dee Williams (the supposed hero of the show). Of course, in true lost fashion, she's killed before she can tell anyone the truth. Therefor, Jacob must be Billy Dee Williams! No, not literally, but someone who has been hiding in plain sight the whole time. Cuse/Lindeloff have compared him to the Emperor from Star Wars, who was thought to just be a kindly senator until his double life as a Sith Lord was revealed. Just some food for thought.

FBILFABAOT (FenwayBen is Last for a Brief Amount of Time)

#533. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 16, 2007 7:10 PM

@Fenway Ben

I agree. Expose! Was maybe the most cheesy thing I have ever seen.


#534. Posted by: dominoghan at May 16, 2007 8:07 PM

Okay, I hate to say this... but with all the ""spoiler"" talk and hype, I was really let down by tonight's epi. I know, I know - Charlie seems to have redeemed himself. The big fight is about to begin. Jules, once again, proves she's had other intentions and might actually be trustworthy - HIIK.
If you haven't seen tonight's show, please stop reading now - k?
(Tilt head slightly to the right if the astericks (sp?) tilted your monitor - sorry...)
Seems the only thing that bothered me tonight was the blood on Alex's hand when Ben 'threw' the gun at her after his encounter with Locke.
Loved the interchange with Hurley and Charlie on the beach. "I wanna go with you" "Your too fat" Hey - fat sux especially in a small boat, and I thought Charlie handled that well.
*******************MORE SPOILERS*****
(Now lean your heads left...)
Loved Charlies list. Really got to me the #1 on his list was meeting Claire.
So, in next week's previews, looks like at least Desmond makes it back.
OH - did anyone think the girls in bed with Charlie during a flashback were the same girls that drew guns on him afer he entered the underwater station? Gotta TiVo that again.
A number of questions and answers reveiled tonight...liked it. But still - didn't make me jump off the couch going "No he did'nt" kind of stuff like last weeks. Lots of backstory closure with Jin and Sun. Liked the Charlie/Liem backfashes, blah. blah. balh.
Must go to bed now. Yes must go to bed...
OVERALL - Extremely entertaining - wodering if I'm going to be dissapointed in the finale - So...Hope...Not

#535. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 17, 2007 12:08 AM

Okay, I hate to say this... but with all the ""spoiler"" talk and hype, I was really let down by tonight's epi. I know, I know - Charlie seems to have redeemed himself. The big fight is about to begin. Jules, once again, proves she's had other intentions and might actually be trustworthy - HIIK.
If you haven't seen tonight's show, please stop reading now - k?
(Tilt head slightly to the right if the astericks (sp?) tilted your monitor - sorry...)
Seems the only thing that bothered me tonight was the blood on Alex's hand when Ben 'threw' the gun at her after his encounter with Locke.
Loved the interchange with Hurley and Charlie on the beach. "I wanna go with you" "Your too fat" Hey - fat sux especially in a small boat, and I thought Charlie handled that well.
*******************MORE SPOILERS*****
(Now lean your heads left...)
Loved Charlies list. Really got to me the #1 on his list was meeting Claire.
So, in next week's previews, looks like at least Desmond makes it back.
OH - did anyone think the girls in bed with Charlie during a flashback were the same girls that drew guns on him afer he entered the underwater station? Gotta TiVo that again.
A number of questions and answers reveiled tonight...liked it. But still - didn't make me jump off the couch going "No he did'nt" kind of stuff like last weeks. Lots of backstory closure with Jin and Sun. Liked the Charlie/Liem backfashes, blah. blah. balh.
Must go to bed now. Yes must go to bed...
OVERALL - Extremely entertaining - wodering if I'm going to be dissapointed in the finale - So...Hope...Not

#536. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 17, 2007 12:08 AM


@BunnyLover, did you not like the blood on Alex's hands because of how the blood got there (she makes Glenn Close look like a PETA poster child), or because the foreshadowing was too heavy handed?

I actually really loved the episode. No, it wasn't as "OMG, what was that!?!" as last week, but I loved how all the flashbacks were items on Charlie's list. Watching him interact with Claire, Hurley and Desmond for what he thinks is the last time had me hook, line, and weight belt. I thought each was pitch perfect. More thoughts after Mac's review!

#537. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 17, 2007 7:41 AM

I haven't watched it yet, but from reading the last post it looks as if I won't need to go home "sick".

#538. Posted by: meg at May 17, 2007 7:46 AM

Why discuss another episode here?

Be patient, and wait until Mac post his recap.

Wow - Over 530 comments!

I pity the fool who has to catch up....

#539. Posted by: shikotee at May 17, 2007 9:48 AM

Sorry for the double premature posts... I suffer from premature postulation. (Especially when I've been drinking.) You're right shikotee, I should have the patience to wait and post after mac's review. Figured if I didn't get it out of my system right then and there that I'd forget everything after I slept. I was right. I didn't even remember that I posted until I logged on this morning. Perhaps I should join AA...
BLIADASL (BunnyLover is a drunk and still last...)

#540. Posted by: BunnyLover at May 17, 2007 10:18 AM

Ok... I am posting here for the first time and I need to say MAC i always read your recap and it it great, thx... so in my county I will watch the next episode next week (it is so here), but I have to say sht to this episode... THE SMOKEY is not to me Smokey! (Or whatever)... I freezed the point on this episode and for 3 seconds i saw a men sitting there in the chair, and it looked like he is one of the old Pirates (they have a ship where Sawyer killed his dad). Or am I the only one that thinks so? So I think:
like in "The Pirates of Carribean" there is a soul of one Pirat that has so much and great power to control the Island. And someone Locke or someone else will or needs to help him to became again human bee and alive. And Ben doesnt want that so he shoot him.
And KATE,,, oh Kate, u are so naiv. How could u tell it to Jack and the Wannabe-Doctor-girl!
I am curious where is the rest of the VW-BUSes, only one "survived", and at the beggining of the episode there was so many cars. If the people are dead, then where are the cars, and how do LOSIES have DHARMA food, if the people are dead, and who brings it to them!
And THE FREAKY ISLAND: so, I think, people cant see this island, they see just See, and somehow maybe of too much electricity or whatever it could be seen, so Desmonds Girlfriend saw it when Desmond put that Key in that Box so "he rescued the world"... in that moment the Island was able to be seen. And Naomi was surprised when she didnt see it, while she was so near it. Too much electricity is on this Island, so noone can reach it, or maybe that is the Curse of the Island, so Locke is gonna save it. (Am I imagining too much?)

Ok, I will try to post more but for today it is enough! (Sen benym canimsin Askim :))

#541. Posted by: carrie_indira at May 17, 2007 10:37 AM

Charlie didn't die!!!

#542. Posted by: michael at May 17, 2007 2:53 PM


He didn't? That's what the producers would LIKE you to think...

#543. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 17, 2007 5:00 PM

3-20 - The Man Behind the Curtain

Wierd stuff in cabin
Jacob is... what, exactly?
Locke's in a bad way.

#544. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 25, 2008 4:37 PM

  1. If your post contains spoilers -- or even hints at spoilers -- add ***** SPOILERS ***** to the top of your comment.
  2. Your post will NOT immediately show up if you post any URLs. Because of ongoing spam issues, I need to manually approve comments that include links. This sucks, but it's the only solution at this time.
  3. Super-long URLs screw up the page. If you post one of these, people will get very angry at you and really, no one wants that. The solution is easy. Go to and create a mini URL.
  4. Do not post under multiple identities and then have inane conversations with yourself. This kind of nonsense will get you banned from the blog.
  5. Do not post in ALL CAPS FOR YOUR ENTIRE POST. In netiquette, all caps suggests you're screaming. In etiquette, it's lame. All-caps posts will be deleted.
  6. Please scan through previous posts to see if someone has already addressed your theory or comment.

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