Lost Reviews and News

LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH!!! This was probably this best episode so far. Why does it seem like next Thursday is so far way?

". . . a robotic River Tam . . ." priceless.
This episode is pure genius. Wow.

Best episode so far, this season and in my top 3 of all time. I was anxious at the end, wishing that Desmond does not jump back to 1996 while waiting to talk to Penny.
I also wonder why Charles Widmore was so interested in the diary and why did he help Desmond though last time he treated him like crap (maybe he thought his daughter would join him in treating Des like crap too)

Great review!

GRAA! Mac.
(brainquilibrium?) best line ever.
Glad we are starting to get some form of answers, sort of. My brain hurts, time for bed. Keep up the good work.

Just decided to repost my last post from a few minutes ago on last weeks epi's page (to tired to write anything else for now....

Forgive the typos (there's now some beer combined with that Italien red...Here's to you Damon...)

Can't wait for Mac"s post and man I love this show.

OK, here goes

Tonight confirmed that Dan IS definately THE MAN.

Also, for some obscure reason that we'll come to now later, Frank also is a good guy (or just has his own agenda) "a la" Juliet.

Now this Epi helped to answer some questions and establish some priNcipals that have to be followed;

1- Time travel doen't necessitate the displacement of your body (Eloise never moved!)....it's where your conscience is at that's important (confirms the old adage that seeing IS believing (as long as your mind thinks it's seeing it....))

2- You NEED to have a constant in your life (or not if you don't mind your brain liquifying and coming out of your nose and eyes....

3- dsaf.gmnfhg wGOHOAHSG (sorry a bit drunk and tired.....)

4- !!!!! ONE OF THE NUMBERS!!!!! (I believe there was at least one reference tonight, the lot number for the Black Rock's ledger was "2342"

BTW is it me or did Widmore give me the impression that he knew what was going on when he gave Desmond Penny's address.

That's all for now....GRAAM (it's a future-flash to what i"ll be writing tomorrow)

@Mac: Bless your brain for making that coherent and funny! I’m also feeling very sympathetic with a flat-lined rat. Just call me Eloise the 3rd.

Oh, my head hurts.

There were a few holes in the plot that you could drive a truck through, but overall, I agree: this episode was awesome! Gosh, I love this show!

So, from the time of his dishonorable discharge from the army to the time he set sail on his boat race around the world to the time he ended up on the island, Des would have known that on Christmas Eve 2004 he would be calling Penny from a boat somewhere near Fiji having just left an island, right? He would have remembered his “future-flashes” from 1996, but not known exactly how he got to the island or the freighter! And then, maybe nothing after that, because the connection with his constant should have stopped the time-jumps.

I always thought Des had some secret he wasn’t sharing with his fellow Losties! This is great because it puts a whole new spin on his motivations and reactions in past episodes.

If the connection with Penny stopped the time-jumps, he should not have any first-hand memory of his island experiences now. Unless a return to the island somehow gives him back his memories? And how does this tie into Daniel’s memory loss?

Biggest weak link in the episode was the immediate assumption by Daniel that Des would have to connect with a constant in both timelines to... what? Stop the jumps? Keep his sanity? Prevent his consciousness from leaking out his nose? Anyway, the writers just conveniently zoomed ahead to the Penny solution, in my opinion, and didn’t back it up well.

The Des/Penny phone call made me cry. Because I’m a girl and because it was awesome :)

A few random thoughts:

I love Daniel.

I love Sayid. Best line was his response to Des about fixing the sabotaged radio equipment (spaghetti wires hanging everwhere): “Just give me a minute.”

During the helicopter ride into the thunderhead, I kept waiting for Frank to say “Talk to me, Goose.”

Boy, howdy, was that freighter guy huge!

Kinda glad Minkoski only lasted one episode. Fisher Stevens annoys me.

Henry Ian Cusick is HOT!!! Sorry, had to get that out there. I mean, seriously, how could Penny try to shut a door in his face? And, I definitely prefer Royal Scots Regiment Des to Island Des. Although I wouldn’t kick either one out of bed. Sorry again. It’s late, I’m tired and it had to be said ; ) G’Night All.

I don't feel drunk.*

OK, NOW the show is officially weird. Mac, how you made any sense of that is amazing. I'm impressed and very excited at what this new wrinkle could bring to the show.

Note that the helicopter veers slightly off course during a storm causing Desmonds flashbacks and forwards. It was probably very similar to the storm Lapidus and the crew flew through when they landed on the island. And by the way, what happened to Naomi? Did they take her off the chopper? Did she fall out during the turbulance? I'm sure Desmond's condition threw them all for a loop but you figure Sayid or Lapidus might have remembered to tell someone, hey we brought back a dead Naomi!

The line I loved was when Desmond says to Faraday, "What do you wear on your head?" after he puts on the anti-radiation apron (is that what they call it?).

And the scene between Desmond and Penny when he tells her he'll call her December 24th, 2004, 8 years in the future, was brilliant. The chemistry between those two is so fantastic, it's hard to believe they aren't husband and wife in real life. Kudos to them.

*I really need to watch "Memento" again. Excellent movie.

The Constant Haiku (4.5 v.1)

Oxford Hippie Doc,

Can't Wait To See His Nose Bleed,

Shivers Like Lab Rat.

@mac "...nor is he a robotic River Tam sent to protect a teenaged resistance leader."

Loved it! I always look forward to Summer.

A couple of quick observations:

1) There does not seem to be a large time difference between the island and the real world. Hours/minutes maybe, but not days as some of us have speculated. Dec 24, 2004 on the island and on the freighter.

2) Was Faraday's journal entry a reference to the fact that Faraday is time traveling as well and knows he needs a constant? Or was it a "just in case" note?

3) It appears that Widmore has a series of monitoring stations setup to look for the island - two of which are the Arctic station and the freighter.

4) Minkowski spoke of trying to go to the island and then his friend died. Now apparently he has as well after presenting peculiar symptoms. Is this what happened to Rousseau and crew? Are these symptoms the same as Rousseau referred to in saying that her crew became sick after arriving on the island?

I had better stop thinking about all of this before a small line of blood begins to trickle from my nose...

Its only 2 hours since the show ended and already you have a great review for all of us to dissect! Thanks Mac!

This too was my favorite episode of the season, gave us a LOT of answers. Few questions/Comments:

1) So is 2004 Desmond now 1996 Desmond (i.e, does he remember how he got onto the island via the boat competition?)

2) Does this whole episode now change the past? I'm having trouble reconciling the previous flash-back episode for Desmond with this one.

3) This episode introduced the concept of consciousness and body being able to "separate". Do you think Jacob is a conscious that's "lost"?

4) Widmore gotta be the financier behind this whole thing. Why else would he be that interested in the journal?

5) When the Dharma initiative started, it seems that ppl come and go freely to the island. So obviously back then this island was easy to find. I think the Dharma initiative may have started the radiation/electromagnet experiments, which probably set off the chain of events.

Thanks Mac, GRAA!

It's been a while since I last posted. I read the recap almost as soon as it's up, but there's already hundreds of comments and observations made before I actually get round to posting. By that stage, any theory or thought I've had has already been stated in some form or other so adding a comment is rendered obsolete. I do read all the comments on this site every week, though, and have done so since season 2. All I can say is what a brilliant bunch of thinkers, researchers and wacky theorists we have here - thanks for always adding to my enjoyment of the show.

I remember a while ago someone asking about the far-flung countries Mac's readers come from. There's quite a few of us in Australia (though in Lost world, that's hardly far-flung, really, is it?)
Maybe the Aussies have been a bit quiet here in the past because we've always been at least half a season behind (does that have anything to do with the Island's proximity to Australia and the time anomaly???). I can, however, report that we have almost caught up and are now only a mere week/episode behind the States in terms of free-to-air screening (thanks to the heat local tv networks get from online downloading).

(And, yes, before you ask, my name really IS Claire, so it's not some obvious Lost pseudonym I'm using.)

Episodes of Lost go to air in Oz 9.30pm on Thursdays... and yet I still can't wait that extra week before watching the ep online. So I'm just waiting for the download to complete so I can go watch this week's ep, but thought I'd say hello and thanks to everyone who contributes to the page before the number of comments start stacking up... :)

One thing I haven't noticed anyone mention to any length is the role of Clancy Brown, who played Kelvin (and has connections to Sayid and Kate's past). I know Desmond is supposed to have killed him on that fateful day he forgot to press the button, resulting in the Oceanic 815 crash, but I can't shake the feeling his story's not completely told yet. My spidey-senses were piqued, too, when we first heard Jacob's voice in the cabin with Ben and Locke last season. When Jacob said 'Help me' to Locke, it sounded a lot like Clancy Brown's deep resonant voice. I know we've seen Jacob in the form of Christian Shepherd since, and the voice of anyone playing Jacob could have been distorted/slowed down to sound deep and resonant, but if you saw Clancy Brown in Carnivale - a program that had some similar philosophical themes - you'd know what I mean. I know it's been said that when someone dies on the island, they ARE dead, but I'm expecting to see him at least pop up in a flashback (or even forward) at some point.

* The Widmore's will be there to the very last episode, no doubt about it!

Can someone explain why the freighter is now only 40 miles away from the island? Just one day before the freighter was "80 nautical miles away" which translates to 92 miles away.

As others have stated, this episode was pretty sweet!

It is definitely mind boggling, so I hope to re-watch before seriously discussing/analyzing.

Mac - I loved:

"Faraday tells Jack and Juliet that "island time" is a little different than "off-island time" (somewhere, Jimmy Buffet nods in agreement)."

@ 6 Clementine

I don't think 1996 Desmond remembers any of the experiences of time travel. He no doubt feels something weird has happened, but he cannot retain the memory. I'm sure they will further explain this at some point.

I don't think 2004 Faraday remembered his experience with Desmond in 1996.

Yeah - brain hurts, but just remember: there will be no paradox!

The freighter is steaming closer.

Time paradoxes are popping-up all over.

Key personnel are taking ill.

I think they are about to solve all their food problems.

Locke is going to step outside for one of his legendary, perfectly timed (how do he know?) rain showers, and I guarantee you, it is going to start raining #15 white rabbits.

(We don't need no stinking eggs!)

ok, so Mr Widmore buys the blackrock log, allegedly recovered by pirates (sorry, dont buy it). I think the Blackrock landed on the island. the survivors wrote for a but about the island before they died. A Mr Hanso with island access found the diary, and sold it, making up the cover story so people wouldnt look for the island, not having thoroughly read the diary. My. Widmore buys the diary at auction, and then Penny READS the diary. Reads about how they landed on some mystery island, and THATS how she knew about the island. Thus she occassionally radios that part of the world, hoping to catch Desmond.

For my theory on how Desmond ends up in jail... after his future flashing in boot camp, he earned a bad reputation as a slacker, or trouble maker. Then he goes and runs off to find Penny. Might not have made it back in time. Been listed as AWOL, and with enough enemies, not given a second chance. They immediately tossed him in jail.

@ Shikotee # 13 -

"Faraday tells Jack and Juliet that "island time" is a little different than "off-island time" (somewhere, Jimmy Buffet nods in agreement)."

That was my fave Mac-Moment this week, too!

@ Alex (not rousseau) #7 -

I loved Memento!

And, once again, I'm reminded of Slaughterhouse 5...

Wish i could travel in future and watch all LOST (future)episodes [:(]

PS... Rousseau... AKA 'Mother of another Other'

At the start to middle of last season, I brought up some curious parallels to Slaughterhouse 5, noting that the writers would have most definitely drawn some inspiration from Kurt Vonnegut and such writers and theorists in the quantum physics and space/time travel traditions. I dropped the topic when other readers here said they were sick of all the time/space theories being thrown about. Well, it seems now that the Lost writers certainly aren't sick of these theories and are quite prepared to explore them! Sorry, but I feel quite vindicated... ;)

For those that haven't read Slaughterhouse 5, here's a brief description of a key relevant element, courtesy of Wikipedia:

* Billy has become "unstuck in time" for unexplained reasons (though it's hinted towards the end that his surviving a plane crash left him with mild brain damage) so he randomly and repeatedly visits different parts of his life, including his death. He meets, and is later kidnapped by, aliens from the planet Tralfamadore, who exhibit him in a Tralfamadorian zoo with Montana Wildhack, a pornographic movie star. The Tralfamadorians see in four dimensions, the fourth dimension being time. Tralfamadorians have seen every instant of their lives already; they believe that they can't choose to change anything about their fate, but can choose to focus on any moment in their lives that they wish.

Throughout the novel, Billy hops back and forth in time, reliving various occasions in his life and fantasy life; this gives him a constant sense of stage fright, as he never knows what part of his life is coming up next. *

I'm sure, if we freeze frame and zoom in, we'll surely find that there's Vonnegut and Hawking titles planted on the bookshelf in the home currently occupied by Sawyer and Hurley!

2 weeks ago, someone mentioned that the island might be under water, which had sprung to my mind when I looked more closely at the title pictures on the website. The when someone else started making comparisons to Pirates of the Carribbean it freaked me out because I had been previously thinking about the scene from Pirates 3 when the ship is sailing "upside down" in the nether world and they have to tilt it far enough that it flips all the way over and again sails "right side up" on the "living" side of the ocean (sorry, I didn't explain that very well. Maybe someone who's seen the movie could explain it better than me at this time of night).

Regardless of the answers we might eventually get to so many of our current questions about the Island, the numbers, the Widmores, Jacob, the Others, Dharma, Oceanic 815, etc, hasn't the journey been worthwhile! Watching Lost certainly fires off the synapses in bizarre and mind-melting patterns and the creators are due massive credit for engaging our imagination for so long.

Mac. Long time lurker. Love your site, feels like family. My experience with LOST is never complete without viewing your review and the comment sections.

Wondering something. Did Desmond's exposure come from the hatch implosion or for being in the hatch for a number of years? If implosion alone, does this mean the same thing would happen to Locke if he left the island? If from the sky turning puple, does possible exposure is the risk for all of islanders if they try to leave the island?

Even though the head is hurting, I wouldn't have it any other way. I love this show and the way it makes me think ...

Great Recap Mac.
Best episode ever in that it answers two major questions - time travel does exist, the island does have special properties.
Also, is Charlie alive? Penny says she talked to him and knows about the island.
AND while this episode was great in a micro way, how does it relate to what will happen over the next 2.5 years in a macro way?
AND have we got close in the time line to the finale 2.5 years from now with flash forwards?

Loved this episode.

I wonder if George was zipping back to 1996 as well?
Did he die in the past and the future at the same time?

When Desmond was experiencing some blood loss due to the 2004 time flip, he did not have a nose bleed when he returned to the past. Perhaps you only die in the future flip. If not George would have died while on a ferris wheel in his past flip.

I'd like to see Julliete kick Charlottes ass.

That's all for now.

Ooops! Sorry, I got so distracted by my poor description of that scene in Pirates of the Carribbean 3 that I didn't finish my point or explain why I was mentioning it (see post #20).

Though I don't give much weight to this idea anymore in light of more recent revelations, the concept in Pirates 3 of being stuck in a parallel world that was on the "flipside" of the ocean did offer some ideas about where the Lost island might have been located - under the water.

In Pirates 3, the ship and crew can't find their way home (and therefore also can't be found) because they're sailing "upside down" on the ocean in the netherworld. Nothing on their map is showing up where it should be and instead of seeing the living and the landmarks indicated on their map, they are seeing all the dead souls floating past in their small rowboats to wherever.

Captain Jack works out that, because they've passed through some living/death portal, they must actually be sailing upside down on the ocean. By flipping the boat over, they can revert back to the topside world and find their way on the map and to where they're going.

This seemed to be relevant at the time because the Others' main mode of transport on and off the island was by submarine and the island can't be found on regular maps - where the island should be, the regular maps were said to just show open water. Ethan had also put Juliet to sleep during her trip to the Island because he said the last part of the journey was a bit rough, or words to that effect, and that seemed consistent with a craft needing to flip over to the other side of the ocean.

Anyway, a crazy theory and I prefer the space/time travel one much better. But it's all part of the fun of throwing up ideas and theories, isn't it? :)

When Desmond contacts Penny on Sayid's
Tin Can SAT Phone. Penny mentions that she started looking for Desmond
3 years earlier, when his friend (charlie) had spoke to her ( through the looking glass).

Please correct for exact wording.

The idea of time/space travel does seem to offer some potential answers to old questions, particularly about why people and things keep showing up at odd times. eg,

- Walt appearing at different times and at different ages on the island. After leaving the island and mastering time travel, did he go back in time to the past Lostaways to help them with his future knowledge? Did he show up at that precise moment when Shannon was shot because he knew she had die then for some yet unexplained reason?

- are the whisperings in the jungle the disembodied voices of time travellers watching and observing them?

- Did future Kate send that horse back to past Kate for some particular reason? Did she send a horse as her messenger because she herself was afraid of the potential consequences of time travelling? Not to mention the further weirding out she would have experienced if Past-Kate had met Future-Kate.

-Did Naomi have the photo of Desmond and Penny because she had time travelled to meet Desmond at some point? Or did Desmond travel back in time to find Naomi and give her his photo...

- Is Jacob a time traveller trapped in that cabin by the space/time continuum?

- the appearance to Jack of Christian Shepherd on the island back in season 1

- The presence of the Black Rock

- the polar bears

I'm sure you could add many many MANY other "Bizarre Island Incidents" to this list that could now be explained with time/space travel. No wonder Ben doesn't want anyone to leave the Island - their heads will explode out their noses!

Maybe Faraday should have worn Cindy's scarf on his head.

I must rewatch this as well before I can discuss it in depth. I think that Faraday didn't remember seeing Des because it hadn't actually happened yet. Once it did, then the book was altered due to the new events occuring in the past, if that makes sense. Don't you guys watch Back to the Future? It's one of my all time favorites.

I have to admit, I really didn't buy in to the whole time travel theory...duh, and I am eating crow for lunch today.

#26

Not exactly. Penny said, "I have been looking for you for 3 years" that was since Des disapeared.

"When I spoke to Charlie" referred to the last episode of season 3 when she spoke with Charlie.

The episode also explains why Penny was even calling during the last episode of season 3. Minkowski does mention that Penny Widmore had been calling non-stop and they were given strict orders never to answer.

The Jewelery Shop woman, the first time Desmond's conscience traveled through time, might know about what is going on. To bad Des didn't recall to find her.

I snuck in early to the concert hall business office just to read Mac's review. OK, I'm excited to see this episode and certainly gained a "heads up" about what to watch for . . .

Hopefully I'll be able to read everyone's reactions on Sunday when I get home for a day. Have a great week friends and thanks, Mac, for the "anticipation thrill" I having right now!

To rehearsal.

Some interesting ideas were raised by last night's awesome episode. Faraday is getting more intriguing by the minute. He made a comment to 1996 Des that you can't change the future. I wonder if this is true or if it is his hypothosis.

If time on the island is so different ... or perception of time on the island is so different then Sayid should be incorrect when he says it is Christmas Eve. The time/date he believes it to be and actual chronological time/date would not be synchronized. Of course this would leave poor Des totally screwed, and I do so love his Bonnie accent.

Did anyone notice that the creepy -" I am just trying to help you" doc turned up in the Eli Stone episode immediately following Lost. Also the Hanso/darma doc showed up as a doc in Medium two weeks ago. (Run Alison run!!!) Maybe they are caught in a cross time network paradox!!!

It think Faraday had a breakdown of some sort which is why he has no memory of meeting 1996 Des. Wonder what else is in that black book of his!!!

I wonder if Des will stop having his future flashes now that he has reset his brain equillibreum!!!

Love truely does conquer all.

Sorry, but I found this episode to be a bit contrived. It seems the writers are now channeling Christopher Reaves ala "Somewhere in Time" with all this mind travel business. Add to that a bit of "Back to the Future" in terms of Des having to seek out "the doc" Farraday and you have a weak episode. I suppose that in the context of the next couple of year's episodes the writers will bring this all together. At least I now have an excuse for spacing out at work!

Research time: In "Live Together, Die Alone" Desmond turns the key which releases a large electromagnetic discharge. The same overexposure that Faraday asks if Desmond has been exposed to. (The purple sky event) Since Desmond has been exposed, he has a problem getting off the Island without a constant. So guess who was nowhere near the explosion in that episode?

Jack, Kate, Michael, Sawyer, and Hurley form a rescue party to save Walt from the Others. (Stop me if you've seen this grouping recently.) Also Sayid, Sun, and Jin take off in a flanking move in Desmond's sailboat. In that episode all these people see the purple sky from the other side of the island. Michael and Walt are released by Ben and presumably don't die. Everyone else is relatively close to the Hatch implosion/electromagnetic discharge being still on the beach.

My theory: The rescuers are the likely Oceanic Six. This would mean Sawyer, Sun, or Jin should round out the Six because they can safely leave the island without buoncing or bleeding.

Also in that episode Ben tells Michael to head off at a bearing of 325, not 305. Does the opening move? Or did Ben send Michael and Walt off on the wrong heading on purpose? Or do the Freighties have the wrong heading?

Ok, after last night's less that "clear" post by yours truly, here are a few more lucide (well, only under the influence of coffee) comments:

- It's pretty clear to me that the type of "time travel" revealed in this epi only happens in one's mind. Desmond never physically left his friends, he only seemed comatose to those around him but his body was still there (remember Eloise, she never physically left the maze).

This could explain Jacob. When Ben was taunting Locke last week, he referred to the fact that Locke wasn't able to contact Jacob.

Maybe Jacob has mastered this method of time travel and he has some plan that he communicates to actors like Ben and Locke at different times to try and prevent some important event from happening (or forcing it to happen...). Maybe he's seen the future and he wants to help (would explain the "good guys" reference by bug-eyed Ben)

- I think that the "dead" people that keep popping up are physically dead but the brain of everybody that sees them, generates there presence for a reason. Ever notice that these "apparitions" are totally individualized and from the past.

- At the end, Des seemed to have regained his memory in the present (2004), I'm wondering if the fact that he now has his constant, will he be able to control his "travels"

BTW

- The three card monty was a memory exercise, rewatching last weeks epi, Charlotte says to Dan "what do you rmember". If it were ESP, she would of said something like "what can you see"

-More trial weirdness: noticed there weren't any TV cameras IN the courtroom. Hey we're in L.A.: O.J. anyone

Back to this weeks epi, a few random thoughts:

-Best line: Juliet to Dan:"if you go slow, maybe we'll be able to understand"

-The sat phone must not be a phone, more of a fancy walkie-talkie, because as Juliet said last week, I'd be calling every phone number still embedded in my mind...."Hello, QVC, do you still have those super Juiceman machines, I'm here on this island with all this fruit and...the address...well about that, here's the thing....

-Is it me or did the light coming from Dan's weird gizmo seem the same color as the sky when the hatch blew...

-How george dies: The Matrix anyone....

-What if everyone, deep down has the potential of beeing ghost wisperers and something on the island triggers this hidden potential (would explain all the dead people showing up for random visits

All for now, sorry for the super-long post but I'm "stuck" at home with a sick child...."to much time on my hands"

P.S. I've decided to keep the One of the six handle until we find out who the six are (after that, it would be like a big lie and all...)

Didn't Penny say something to the effect "I've been looking for you the last 3 years since I spoke to your friend Charlie" What's that about

My assumption on why Des went to jail, is for being Awol from the army.

I love Daniel! We need a Daniel flashback!

The Desmond/Penny relationship makes the Kate/Jack/Sawyer "triagle" look like junior high stuff.

GRAA Mac!

"A Very Special Lost Christmas." Chewbacca's family and Bea Arthur guest star."

Best...line...ever! Maybe we will also get a five minute cartoon of Boba Fett fighting Smokey!

I have been complaining the past four episodes of how I was worried the show was getting into the "too many questions" phase, and let me just say that this episode was brilliant! It managed to do something that most episodes do not, and that is to ask and ANSWER major questions in the same episode. One of my favorite episodes.

I just can't look at Kevin Durand (aka Keamy) and not see him as a Tremor Brother from Smokin' Aces. I kept waiting for him to make a run at Spyid with a chainsaw.

I feel sorry for Fisher Stevens. Clearly, Number 5 is not alive. Not anymore at least.

What the hell is Eckley from C.S.I. doing giving out flu shots on the S.S. Others II anyways. I guess he needed something to do until the strike ended.

I was very impressed what they did with Faraday's character. Impressed in the way that he seemed like a very weak and secondary character, but my has all that changed. He was like Hurley in the grand scheme of things, but it took much less time to show his importance to the grand scheme of things.

That is all for now. I must go and beat Lost: Via Domus for the 360 to see if that gives me any clues about the island.

Dan's line about being exposed to radioactive or magnetic energy (paraphrasing) when he finds out about Desmond's confusion on the boat and then in the journal "Desmond Hume will be my constant"....This could be foreshadowing some events: Dan has been exposed to radation or magnetic energy with all of his experiments (1996) so he could be in danger when he leaves the Island...so if this happens (mind travelling) future Dan (2004) will visit Desmond at some point in the past.

Not sure if I explained consisly but....

Also, the Lost numbers where everywhere in this episode...

Hey, Mac, during the summer, how bout a book club to discuss some of the novels that appear on the show..

On a side note...Des is extremely hot...in any year........

SEE! I told you Aaron was one of the 6! I'm vindicated! HA!

WWWWHHHHHHOOOOOAAAAAA!!!!

Okay, I'm back...I was just transported a couple Fridays into the future in my mind. I guess I won't give anything else away! (Pause to wipe blood away from nose.) ;o)

[Faraday tells Jack and Juliet that "island time" is a little different than "off-island time" (somewhere, Jimmy Buffet nods in agreement).]

Made me LOL Mac. Great review and very funny as usual. You always pack a great punch with so few words, and always hit the most vital points.

The most interesting thing to me was Faraday telling '96 Des that you can't change the future. My theory then, is that two totally different timelines were present. One being the first 'life' Desmond experienced leading up to his island experience, and one that he WOULD HAVE experienced had he stayed in 1996 #2 and lived those 8 years all over again.

In that 2nd timeline he could've made choices that would've kept him far away from the island. But that timeline never got to play out since Des was able to find his 'constant' in 2004 that kept him in 2004. As soon as he did that, then the 2nd 1996 timeline basically ceased to exist.

So Faraday was correct in saying you can't change the future...at least timeline #1 that 'already happened'.

Geeze, I think I'm just confusing myself...cuz this theory doesn't tie in with the ending journal entry Faraday found about Des.

One more quick thing. Faraday said he wouldn't be teaching Eloise the maze for another 2 hours. But she died before he could teach her the maze. Yet, she had been to the future so knew the maze when she 'came back'. But then again, how could Faraday teach her the maze at that point when she already knew it? Doesn't make sense to me...

There's just too many variables to think about when you introduce time travel stuff in a series. But anyway, it was a phenomenal ep and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

→ 31. Posted by: weepict at February 29, 2008 08:27 AM

Yes, I noticed the doctor in Medium. Wondering if they are doing this on purpose to mess with us?? Placing the actors in other shows...weird huh.

When Des left the room with Daniel and fell down the steps, I wonder why Daniel didn't follow and help him?

It did seem like Penny's dad knew that something was amiss. Why give out an address instead of a number?? Odd. Also, how did Des call her from the payphone if he didn't have her correct number? She had already moved.

Ben is going to be my constant...:)

Don't forget that a Tsunami hit at the end of December 04!

Spoiler alert!!! I figured out how the entire series is going to end... I am going to wake up and there never really was a series, it was all a dream.

what an amazing episode.. im gonna go ahead and say most intellectually engaging episode of the series so far.. i thought flashes before your eyes messed with my mind.. i had NO idea

i love this show so much and these writers really are geniuses. they should seriously give the next nobel prize to the lost writers

#36-one of the dix... seems you already gave it up

Desmond's flash's -- I have to presume he keeps having them, only more controlled with less nose bleeding. He saw Claire get on the heli, Charlie skewered through the neck, Charlie drowning saving Claire, Charlie dieing in the looking glass. Some prior to 'current time', some after.

The best line of the episode was Sayid’s flat affect delivery of the ‘convenient’ line in response to Desmond’s ‘remembering’ the telephone number just at the right moment. Was it suspicion? Exasperation? Cynicism? Whichever is was, Sayid, I feel ‘ya. An episode driven by deus ex machina is no more fun to watch than it is to be in.

So the big mystery of George is no greater than that he’s a red shirt: a walk-on character that exists to be killed in order to convince us that the regular character we care about is in mortal danger. Meh.

Sayid channels the spirit of Russell Johnson and rigs a radio out of coconuts and seawater that lasts just long enough for Desmond to declare his love-across-the-ages to Penny, but not long enough to actually do anything useful. Unaccountably, Sayid, man-of-action, is content to sit passively in the background while his sole lifeline to the world is squandered on a big teary e-hug. I haven’t seen such a cheeseball resolution to a complex time travel dilemma since “Altered States”. Meh.

Speaking of questionably derivative choices, I think 1996 Daniel Faraday went to see “12 Monkeys”, in theaters that year, and on seeing Brad Pitt’s over-the-top mannered performance in that time-travel film thought to himself, “Aha! *That’s* how people deranged by spending too much time thinking about time are supposed to act!” Meh.

And as we were looking over Danny’s shoulder at his notebook, I couldn’t help but wonder what it said about him that Desmond was his Penny. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

I think we're missing a major, MAJOR flaw here people:

Where did the information come from?!?!?!?!

Desmond got it from Daniel right? But Daniel got it from Desmond BUT Desmond got it from Daniel, NO BUT Daniel got it from DESMOND, NO DESMOND GOT IT FROM DANIEL!...

Do you see where I'm going?

Who actually discovered that the machine has to be set at 11Hz at 2.3?

Mac help me out!!

George Minkowski played by Fisher Stevens died in this episode (time traveler dude in the sick bay bed). He is credited with 3 episodes in IMDB however... The Constant, Confirmed Dead, and The Beginning of the End. So expect to see more of him.

Hey Mac and fans,

Does anyone think that the person Sayid was going after, the person who was giving those woman the beepers and stuff, was Penny's Dad?

Im starting to think that!

Great Post Mac Daddy!

Don't know if anyone else caught this but - the experiment with Eloise caught my eye. The light that Daniel had shining on her was the same color as the "Purple Sky" that surrounded the island when Desmond turned the failsafe key.

Hmmmmnnnn. I have to admit, I am a bit surprised at the general tone of the readers regarding this episode. With the exception of #34 gables79 it seems everyone loved it.

I'm lukewarm at best. Don't get me wrong, the story was fantastic, it's just that the whole episode seemed pretty pedestrian and as gables79 said contrived.

Typically, and what I like about Lost, is that they (producers/directors/writers) don't ram things down your throat. A mystery will be revealed and then over the course of many epidodes or a season, clues to that mystery are slowly revealed. It's like enjoying a glass of wine or cup of good coffee. You savor it and enjoy it.

With this episode, I felt like I just chugged a Big Gulp of sugary caffeinated Coke. Right away, this drastic event occurs with Desmond and the whole episode just races through to tie it all up. It seems like such an important reveal should have been treated differently. I suppose it could be argued that the whole sense of speed of the episode was set up to make us feel the urgency of Desmond unlocking his situation. Yeh...maybe I just didn't get it.

And the nosebleeds? C'mon guys...that's the oldest and most played trick in the book. Character gets sick/infected/exposed, and what do they always do? They give them a nosebleed. I was very disappointed to see Lost fall for that cop out.

Anyway, this whole explanation of Desmond went a heck of a long way to explain his older future flashes and give us some hints of what's going on in the island. And looking at the bigger picture, we all have to now wonder how to apply this knowledge to what's going on with all the other characters.

Thanks Mac!

Robert Gale is R.G. on the bracelet, which is Ben's alias.

Hey AC, I just assumed that at some point between 1996 & 2004 Faraday figured out the settings as his experiments advanced. So that's the reason 2004 Daniel was able to relay 1996 Daniel the info through Des.

Sounds like you're thinking that 2004 Daniel knew the info because Des told him back in '96...but that doesn't make sense to me. I think Faraday figured it out on his own as time approached 2004, and that's why he was able to relay the info to 1996 Farady through Des.

So how do they address how this new knowledge affected the 1996 timeline as far as Faraday is concerned? Is the only change the journal entry that 2004 Daniel saw at the end of the ep? Is that a paradox that the producers say they aren't going to address?

Jenny, the initials on the bracelts read RG, i was thinking maybe, Robert Gale, Bens alias...

Kinda explains the need for a submarine now, the chopper doesn't exactly look like the best means of transportation between the island and the rest of the world.

GRAAM!

In Daniel's first flashback/forward, he had a caretaker. Mental impairment because he neglected to cover his noggin when he conducted 20 experiments a day? Also, he was very upset when Oceanic 815 was found at the bottom of the ocean, but he didn't know why. That seems to me like that scene wasn't a traditional flashback, as he probably met the survivors of 815 (what we're seeing right now) before the discovery of the plane. Maybe there are emotional echoes even if the events aren't remembered? Just speculation since it appears now that Daniel is unstuck from time, too.

How fantastic was Sayid in this episode? He sets up the one call from the freighter to the outside world, and without even understanding the importance of it, he hooks up Des and Penny.

→ 7. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau)

I'd forgotten about Naomi already!

1 quick question, does any know if the quardinets that ben gave to Michael and Walt, match up anyway to the quardinets the helicoter took?

One thing I want to point out and i don't think anyone mentioned it yet, is that the first time we met faraday, he's locked up in a home watching the news and the findings of the wreckage of oceanic flight 815. someone asks him what's wrong as he begins to cry. he replies 'i don't know'. so, to me, past faraday has already been to the future, on the island, but hasn't made contact with desmond in the past. does that make any sense? faraday, watching that newscast, has some sort of relationship tied up to the crash...in the past. somehow, faraday is going through the exact same thing that desmond is. does anyone remember this or have any insight they'd like to share?

In 1996, things between Penny and Des were still left that she really didn't want to see him anymore. She reluctantly gave him her phone number, but only after he promised her he wouldn't be calling her soon. Why then did she decide 5 years later to look for him? What events led them to be on good terms? If I recall the timeline, they last spoke just when he was leaving for his sailing race around the world, prior to him landing on the island. It would appear she started looking for him at that point. I guess she must have known he was LOST.

→ 52. Posted by: JoePike

Daniel couldn't have figured it out because Desmond gave the information to him!

@Meg: The first phone call Des made was before Penny moved and changed her number.

@Confused: Boats move.

I think Mr. Widmore is funding the Freighties. They are ignoring Penny's calls and he is very interested in the Black Rock journal. (Maybe he wants to collect the whole set?) The journal must have some information like 'We went through a weird place and somehow escaped. I, the first mate, will not go back but the captain wants to explore again.'

AC...Yes, but you're forgetting that there was a timeline that went from 1996 - 2004 where Daniel hadn't met Des yet. That means that Daniel had to have figured out the info on his own in this first timeline. Des telling Daniel the info in 1996 was a timeline #2...

Nose bleeding again...

I doubt all of this stuff will ever be fully explained as the show goes on, so who knows which of our theories is correct in the writers' minds!.

Desmond also told Daniel that in the future his boat crashes on an island and Daniel is there too.

In Daniel's flash back he is terrified about the Oceanic 815's plane crash 'cos maybe he knew from Desmond that he would end up there etc. Maybe Daniel is experiencing some memory lost like
→ 57. Posted by: kevin
mentioned, something ties him to it and it is DESMOND!

However... I'm still taking about whats really bothering me!

Daniel couldn't have figured it out because Desmond gave him the information!!!

Ok, first my comments on some of the posts:

@bcre8ve (entry #9):

1) I think the calendar on the ship may be something to throw us off the trail. ie: The calendar is showing what they figure should be the date on the island rather than what the "real" date is. Remember: they said there was a big electromagnetic disturbance only two days ago that made them lose all communications. We, as the viewers, of course know that flash happened quite some time ago now when Desmond turned the key in "Live Together, Die Alone". Also, remember that the Black Rock was lost back in the 1800's. If the time differential isn't really a factor then Rousseau is really upwards of 150-200 hundred years old at this point.

2) Faraday's entry in his log seems to me to be a "just in case" rather than a reference to an existing problem.

3) Don't know about Widmore, but Penny's conversation was purposely cut off at a couple of (what likely will turn out to be) key points. I think there was information there that we'll not be allowed to find out until a later episode this season or some future season.

4) I hadn't made the connection with Rousseau's team until you mentioned it. Perhaps the "virus" that she thought was infecting her crewmates was in fact this "mental time travel" phenomenon.

@PiecesofArzt (entry 35):

Regarding the difference in headings that Mike/Walt were given compared the Frank (325 vs 305) I think we'll find eventually that different headings take you to different points in time. Just my theory. It kinda ties into the calendar being 2004 on the ship when we all know that people on the island are there from different points in time yet here they are on the island at the same time.

@JoePike (entry 41):

About Faraday telling Desmond that he can't change the future, perhaps he was just plain wrong or perhaps there are many futures - it just depends on which branch we're sitting on.

Now, I've got to say this episode was just awesome. It blows away all kinds of theories we've been positing around here while reinforcing those same theories at the same time. The Lost writers are just unbelievably amazing storytellers! I'm going to need to see the size of that whiteboard when this series is over. The storylines, the concepts, the arcs, everything is so intricately tied to everything else it must be the size of an airplane hangar wall!

It's just so much information in this episode that can be interpreted in so many ways, I just am at a loss for words about putting forth a single theory this week. That's how overwhelmed I am at things right now. I guess I'll let the smoke coming out of my ears dissipate for a day or two and them come back here to post again. (Likely, I'll read something posted after my post and have to respond before then, but it's still good in theory...)

@MAC - as always, fantastic interpretation of the episode. Your knack for detail is amazing. We're definitely lucky to have you as our "host".

Ok, I'm out. My head has set off the smoke detector in my house...

i think ben knows how to time travel and has mastered it, we saw his passports and cash from different countries in his desk drawer. i also
think he knows charles widmore and may
be working for him. btw its 08:01 here
and no one is on ready or claimed.

Daniel recognised Desmond's name therefore they must have met in 1996 hence Daniel knew that Desmond was about to give him information and he realised that he was the person who gave this information to Desmond... right?

I got a feeling that Daniel knew who Desmond was. If Daniel didn't know who Desmond was why would he ask him to go to Oxford to tell him some numbers?

"The writers' room whiteboards will someday hang in the Smithsonian." I loved that Mac!!! Thought so too!! (Though couldn't expressed it as good :p)

LOVED the episode. One of the best of the WHOLE series!!!

First time poster.

Here are my thoughts from last night's episode, didn't see some of this mentioned in my quick glance of the comments (bear with me, I'm at best a hack sleuth for deciphering this stuff, usually happy and perfectly entertained just to be along for the wild ride that is Lost).

-'96 Daniel remarks that Des had been out for 40 minutes or so (forget the exact amount of time), but Des said he'd only been in 2004 for 5 minutes.

-So, "past" time moves much slower than "future" time, or at least is perceived that way. And Daniel stated as much as the beginning of the episode when trying to explain why the helicopter hadn't yet made contact upon arrival on the freighter.

-THAT time differential (island vs. freighter) was greater than the time differential Des was experiencing in jumping between 96 and 04. Jack remarked that the helicopter trip should have taken 20 minutes but it had been 2 days (or SEEMED like 2 days, Daniel clarified).

-Also, keep in mind that once on the freighter, Desmond starts having trips BACK in time, whereas on the island he was having visions FORWARD in time (albeit very briefly forward).

-So, does this mean that the island is actually in the PAST sometime earlier than 1996? I may be misconnecting the dots here, but I think this is how everything is starting to tie together.

-Another thing that jumped out at me: 96 Daniel remarked to Des that "you can't change the future." It struck me as a poignant "famous last words" line that is going to be crucial to how the story unfolds and proven to very much not be the case - that in fact the future CAN be changed.

-This last point may explain the episode where Daniel becomes is seen crying and distraught when he sees the newscast that 815 wreckage had been recovered, no survivors. Maybe that wreckage was not staged, but a real alternate fate for the flight and everybody aboard, and perhaps he somehow played a part in altering events that changed history.

This was my favorite Lost episode yet, from any season.

-

To quote somebody or other:

"We're gonna need to watch that again."

Haven't read anything...all I gots to say is...Best Episode Ever!!

Look forward to reading ya'lls thoughts.

I really loved this episode. Penny and Desmond are my favorite couple and I was always hoping they'd get to meet up somehow. It made me very happy. =)
Although I was a bit anxious when he was calling her, thinking that he'd die at the last moment.

And like others here I believe Desmond went to jail because he was AWOL.

As for Mr. Widmore. I think he was nicer to Desmond when they met at the auction because Desmond slightly altered his past actions by meeting Daniel so therefore his course of events, while not changing dramatically, still had some subtly different results.

I am confused though about 'Not Penny's Boat' when she said she was looking for him. Could this be her father's boat instead?

And had she been searching for him when the hatch exploded? Where would that put her in the time line? It didn't seem like three years since that incident.

Those are the two parts that have me confused.

→ 58. Posted by: BEMH at February 29, 2008 09:59 AM

I wondered about the chain of events with Des and Penny as well. Where did the monk bit fit in? Could someone try to clarify the whole Desmond timeline?

@Mac, thanks for the recap. enjoy it every time.
@15 I think you might be on to something regarding the Blackrocks log that Widmore bought, but it also raises a lot of questions regarding that. If the BR's log was in possesion of the Hanso family, why did it end in an auction in 1996? I think that as Mac says this will be an important revelation on how the Dahrma iniciative came to be on the island in the first place. We have also to remember that in the second season a parachute full of Dahrma supplies lands on the island, so they are pretty much still around.
It is my theory that Faraday will somehow be the key to this whole mess.

The course heading Michael and Walt were to take was 3.25. I saw a note on the dash of the helo. That said 3.05. Were have we seen the heading before? On Eko stick!! What up with this.

@63. Posted by: LostedIt

I agree with you 100%. I think that the calander is there to throw us off. We know now that the Boaties know much more about the island (via Faraday) then we thought. I think that they are keeping track of the day on the island via that calandar. When Penny said "I have been looking for you for 3 years" I think that it was a clue that it is actually December 24 2007 (2004 + 3 years). Usually my ideas are fully analyized before I get to post them... Any thoughts?

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Juliette is a sneaky lil' minx and can not be trusted. Never. Ever. Ah, I feel better now that I've gotten that off my chest.

Now to focus on Mac's superlative review -- fabulous, funny, clever and insightful as always! Thank you, Mac!

Did anyone else notice the wedding band on Penny's finger in the last scene??!! She's obviously not married to Desmond...so someone else??

@71 meg said:

>I wondered about the chain of events with Des and Penny as well. Where did the monk bit fit in? Could someone try to clarify the whole Desmond timeline?

For a wonderful collection of all the events of "Lost" in as coherent a time line as possible, see:

http://www*lostpedia*com/wiki/Timeline

They're not perfect. Their calculations had the 'present' day island time as Dec 26 whereas last night's ep informed us it was Dec 24.

However, I notice that overnight they've fudged a bit by changing the present day heading to:

"Day 96 - Sunday, December 26, 2004 (on the Island)/Friday, December 24th, 2004 (off the Island)".

I'm not sure if this is going to be born out on the show, or if they just had made a two day error in their calculation (some of the evidence is a little ambiguous). We'll just have to see.

"It's a tour de force on all fronts."

Understatement of the year, Mac. Holy buckets.

This *might* be the first episode that answered more questions than it asked. OK, so it's weird and we don't fully understand it, but we do know why 'Des could see glimpses of the future! Sure, the science behind it is wacky (electromagnets! Who knew?), but we aren't exactly watching a documentary here... ;)

BTW... I'm not convinced that time is moving in a linear fashion here. Meaning... 'Des didn't "remember" the island when he was doing the army thing the first time, because his flashbacks hadn't happened yet. Daniel didn't have any 'Des notes in his journal from his first pass in Oxford because 'Des hadn't jumped yet. Those notes didn't appear in his journal until *after* the 2004 island events.

It's a brain-bender, and no mistake. And I'm likely wrong. :) But that's my theory. For now.

Tour de force... Rawkin'!

FABULOUS episode, amazing recap, Mac!

Going back to last week's episode, I had a flash on inspiration -- Jack last week talked about 8 people surviving when they crashed. We've been talking about 2 people dying... but I think the other two are Michael and Walt! Bringing the total to 8 -- the O6 + michael and walt. Otherwise, why would he have added 2 people specifically. They had to explain Michael and Walt! What do you guys think?

If you read Watchmen, you'll find out what the "freighter" might symbolize....duh duh duhh!

@ 76 - Penny wasn't married. I made sure about that. =) She just had a ring on her right hand ring finger (our left) and there was nothing on her left (our right).

This also makes me wonder if Desmond's meeting with Penny in 1996 caused her to not get married as she would have done prior to him leaving for the boating race.

Hi all,
Just wanted to comment (as someone did before) about he fact that not long ago, alot of people were "tired of all these time-travel theories", well, now we can see that we shouldn't take anything for granted from these writers. What we think are useless theories might just turn out to be very usefull, indeed. Kudos to all the time-travel theorists!!

On another note, my broker just called me and advised me to buy stock in the BlackRock Company! It turns out that it has nothing to do with Lost, but it made me a little nervous for a moment.

ALso, to the person who mentioned above that the actor that played George Minkowski was credited for "Confirmed Dead" and The Beginning of the End" so we might see him again: those were previous episodes, and he is credited for his voice, because the episodes both involve the Losties talking to him on the SAT phone. Just wanted to clear that up.

I just had a bizarre thought. What if the people on the plane really are dead?? Not that they are in some type of purgatory, as the writers dismissed; but, that they are caught in the same sort of time-rift thing. Their bodies exist in two places at once, and in two times. The things that keep popping up from their pasts (Kate's horse, Jack's dad, etc) are their constants.

So it seems that Sawyer may well be the Oceanic Sixth, eh? Farady asked Des is he had recently experienced any extraordinary electromagneticism. Thanks to Locke, most of the 815ers did except for those who went to Bensylvania. They got tied up on the dock when things went whacky and Des turned the key.
Great recap Mac, always a joy.

In regards to how Daniel/Desmond figured out the settings to be 2.342 @ 11, Daniel figured it out because he told Desmond to go back and tell him...make sense....

There was an old Valiant Comic Book (hey, some of the Lost writers are comic book writers, Brian Vaughn anyone...) called TimeWalker with a guy who jumped through time. The premise behind the book was that the future could not be changed because what happened in the past had already determined the future. In one issue TimeWalker tries to stop charge of light brigade because he hates that poem but in the end he ends up causing the charge. Same thing here, Daniel figured it out because Desmond told him and then in future Daniel sent Desmond back to tell him what Desomond had already told him.

As for the boaties, Daniel explains that only ppl who have had massivie exposure to radiation/electromag so where had George/Brandon been to be exposed to massive radiation???

I think that maybe the island itself is possibly jumping through time much like Desmond (would explain why it so hard to find and how the Black Rock is in the middle of the island...boat is travelling and island appears underneath???)

Also, it has to be Daddy Whidmore who is in charge of things on the boat since it has to be someone who knows Penny for them to tell the boat not to answer phone calls specifically from her.

Also, weren't all of the Oceanic 6 on the water at end of Season 2 when explosion went off (Jack and gang were on a pier, Sayid in boat), so none of them had physical contact with island???

Also, time seems like a good premise behind the show, remember that Sun/Jin were on Oceanic 815 because Sun's dad was having Jin deliver a watch to someone in LA? Why have someone personally deliver a watch??? FedEx anyone???

Overall, great season, with exception of last week's Kate episode which was maybe a little weak.

I think it is still 2004. Why would a ship carry around a calendar that is 3 years out of date? Just in case some people caught in a time trap got on their boat when they weren't supposed to? The show '24' doesn't take 24 weeks to explain so why couldn't 'Lost' still be in the past.

Besides the impending tsunami will 'bury' the fake 815 so no one can explore the details.

@ Manny: Post #10; Great thought! "Is jacob a lost conscious?" Yes, he could literally be stuck between times hence the cry to Locke of "Help Me."

@87 PiecesofArzt asked:

>I think it is still 2004. Why would a ship carry around a calendar that is 3 years out of date?

To make the food better? (See William Least Heat Moon's "Blue Highways".)

People, please be aware that *conscience* is the little voice in the back of your head that says it's not right to pull your sister's pigtails, even when no one is looking.

What's travelling through time is Desmond's *consciousness*, or "awareness", or, if you want a really short word, "mind".

OK. I am really confused right now, I thought I had a handle on this show until now. Thanks everyone for your insights and theories. I came away from this episodes with far more questions than answers. For the person who brought up Rousseau's crew's "sickness" - aha!
I can't wrap my head around why Faraday asked Desmond to seek him out in 1996 and give him the settings for his "future fryer". Was this a correction that has implications in 2006? Did that one moment make this whole series possible? I feel a nosebleed coming on, too, and we're in an endless past/future loop that never stops! I thought Ben's moniker was "Henry Gale" - did one of his many passports also say "Robert"? Ditto about Sayid's sacrifice of their one communications device - he can be such a softie sometimes!

@ Cecil Rose #89: How funny (not in a ha-ha but in a funny-peculiar-how coincidental way)... I was discussing Blue Highways w/a friend at breakfast just yesterday. Wonderful book in terms of making one think about one's own life.

I haven't seen the episode yet (*@!#% VCR tape...we're still in the 20th century re TV technology) but couldn't wait to read Mac's AAA (Awesome As Always) review & see what people had to say.

Over in the Forums Capt. Nemo has a very interesting post on what he terms a Grand Unified Theory w/regard to the island, its various inhabitants, & time travel. (Yes, I know, JoePike...we don't need no stinkin' forums! ; > )

Sorry I meant 2004 - like anything makes sense...

@72,

but theres the time dilation effect, or whatever you want to call it. The parachute full of supplies could have been launched a long, long, long time ago. I'm guessing theres 1 bearing it could arrive on, and NOT be time shifted. For all we know, the helicopter that dropped those supplies dropped it 10 years ago, and it only just arrived. After all, we never heard any aircraft fly overhead.

I don't understand why everyone thinks this episode "is in the Top 5!". It was really hokey, and reminded me of a cheesy sci-fi made-for-TV movie.

The only good things were the Desmond-centric nature of it (I love him!), the fact there is finally confirmation that there is some sort of time issue on island, and a kinda-explanation for Desmond's ability to see into the future.

Was that Mrs. Hawking (the freaky jewely store lady that told Des about the universe "course correcting") sitting in the audience during the auciton?

I'm at work and can not check DVR...anyone else notice that? If it wasn't her sitting behind Widmore, it looked a lot like her.

@78 Posted by: Combat Chuck

I don't buy into the idea that Daniels note regarding Desmond as his constant "magically" appears (a la Back to the Future Style). Based on the evidence provided, it is more likely that Daniel simply could not remember that he had met Desmond, or that he had written a note about it. I think this is why they had the scene where Daniel could only remember 2of3 cards.

This time-traveling of the mind definitely has memory loss side-effects - which only seem to be resolved with the use of a constant.

*** Conceptual Spoiler *****

Keep in mind - the writers have worked pretty hard to reinforce the idea that the future can't be changed, even when some form of time travel into the past occurs.

In the first podcast, the producers stated that while they will play with bending space time, they will not allow paradoxes to come into effect.

The example they use to demonstrate this was a reference to the first season of "Heroes", where the story arch is the heroes trying to prevent New York City to blow up. The character of Hiro has the ability to travel in time, and in one episode, future (super cool) Hiro visits season 1 (super nerd) Hiro. In future Hiro's timeline, New York City blew up, and he is trying to change that. At the end of season 1, New York city does not blow up.

This creates a paradox. If New York does not blow up, then the future Hiro who travels back to geek Hiro does not actually exist anymore, so how could he go back and give the warning?

I think memory loss will be the way the Lost writers avoid paradoxes, and maintain the idea that the future will always unravel as is, despite time travel experiences.

Thus - 2004 Desmond (stable due to constant) remembers all experiences. I think we will find out that post 1996 Desmond will not remember his time travel experience, but will be deeply disturbed as a result of it. As some have speculated, this may be what will land him in military jail.

OMG!

Just read the review and can't believe I forgot to watch last night! Thank God for DVR...

fave-macism--the very special Lost Christmas with Chewbacca's family and Bea Arthur--priceless!! What no animated Boba Fett?

Still I feel so pathetic for forgetting it was Thursday. Let me preface by saying that I HATE playing video games. However we recently purchased a wii and I got started playing some Marvel SuperHero game. I totally lost track of time and ended up playing the game until 1am! I missed Lost for a video game (again thank God for DVR...but still...)
Sorry to divert too much from topic but I just needed to make my confession--I feel sooo dirty!

Thank you and now back to the regularly scheduled blog comments--I'll pipe back up after I watch the ep! It sounds like a doozy!

i'm still wondering where the chuck are Micheal and Walt? are they Ben's man on the Boat???
Did anyone else find the Dr. like the creepiest Dr. ever? I mean that dude comes out while i'm in the waiting room and i'm bailing.

I just listened to the official audio podcast on ABC.com. Just to clear one thing up real quick... (Sort of spoilerish, but doesn't really give anything away...just stuff we really want to know at this point.)

The producers reinforced that the show is 'paradox averse', meaning that when a character time travels, nothing they do can change the present or future we have already seen on the show. This is why they introduced the concept of 'the universe having a way of course correcting' so many episodes ago.

So even if a character goes back in time and changes something significant, the universe will 'course correct' so that the future we know (and love?) on the show remains intact. So none of the future-flashes we've already seen can ever be changed.

Glad that's cleared up for sure.

They also touched on Eggtown a bit, but unfortunately didn't mention anything about the courtroom screw ups we've talked about here so much.

They did mention though, that by the end of episode 7 we will know 100% who the Oceanic 6 are. (AARON! AARON!)

Interestingly, they also brought up that it doesn't really matter who the other 2 of the total 8 Jack talked about are, since what he said was a lie.

@56: it's spelled "coordinates"

Great review, Mac, thanks!
I generally don't read books about time travel because they make my head hurt, but if you're interested in one that doesn't have so much of a sci-fi feel (I know, why would anyone reading this blog want a NON sci-fi book ;-) ), read "The Time Traveler's Wife" by Audrey Niffinegger. It was great, and didn't cause severe headaches!
The fact that time is "different" on the island might be why none of the women seem to have hairy armpits (THAT would have put a different spin on the Sawyer-Kate caged sex scene!) and the men have scruff, but not beards as long as "Zeke's" fake one.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm:

Eko's Jesus stick was carved with 'Look north, John 3:05' and that was also Frank's heading: North 305.

Some people have mentioned that maybe the Oceanics ARE dead (the wreckage is real) and that the island and its special properties have created past or future (I'm confused) alive selves (minds) on the island. Would this somehow lead to an explanation for how Hurley sees Charlie in the future?

Penny and Des were "off-again" in 1994 but dad didn't hate him so much then...so he gave Des the address. After 1994 Penny and Des are "on-again" and dad is mad...we've seen Penny and Des together post 1994 but dad doesn't approve. Des decides to enter sail competetition to win dad's approval...and ends up on the island. Penny is in love with Des, knows he is missing, and tries to find him. Des wasn't on the plane crash, so he could have been missing for three years (how long penny has been looking for him). Remember, he was in the hatch and sailing around going nowhere for who knows how long.

oops....1996 not 1994 (it's 2004)

No paradoxes, eh? What if Daniel had refused to teach Eloise how to run the maze? But he can't, because she already knew it, right? So, he was "forced" to go through those actions in the future? (nosebleed)

Seems like free will may come into play at some point, and the most likely person to exercise it will be Jack, who seems to enjoy being contrary in many cases. "Let's not teach her the maze and see what happens then...".

GRAA Mac -

Amazing how you condense so much physics noise into a coherent synopsis.

IMHO this was a great episode and a true turning point in the series - much was revealed that a significant premise behind the island weirdness is tied to time travel.

One question I have - why did Desmond time travel to 1996? Is 1996 significant for other reasons? Otherwise he could have just as easily travelled back to nursey school.

Was 1996 signifianct for Dharma?

Any thoughts...

The course heading Michael and Walt were to take was 3.25. I saw a note on the dash of the helo. That said 3.05. Were have we seen the heading before? On Eko stick!! What up with this.

→ 73. Posted by: micHael at February 29, 2008 10:44 AM
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm:

Eko's Jesus stick was carved with 'Look north, John 3:05' and that was also Frank's heading: North 305.

→ 102. Posted by: GatorGal at February 29, 2008 11:46 AM

As you can see I have been wondering about this also. Did Eko give more of a clue then we first through?

Ok, so what if the card experiment on last weeks show was an exercise to see is Dan could control going forward in time and retain the memories. the last scene where he finds the note to himself about desmond being his constant makes me think there more to that scene then just a memory trick.

Well... I'm new to the forum and somewhat to the series, but thanks to past time travel, I've caught up. This probably may have been discussed before, but does the time-warp explain how Hurley won the Lottery?

So does Eloise stay dead so Daniel can't teach her the maze in an hour? I'm really having a tough time "getting" this, but still love it!

109. Posted by: Mary

I was just about to type the same thing. I think that he can't remember the three cards from the future.

I hate this episode. Introducing the concept of actual time-travel (as opposed to the more benign visions) could very well provide Lost with the intial energy needed to slide down the slippery slope into contrivied cheesiness.

The aspect of Lost that has always appealed to me is the element of science fiction. The ghosts, smokey, the magic box, all of these are cool ideas, and I never seemed to mind that they didn't quite make sense.

Time-travel, however, is a different beast entirely. As already mentioned by several previous posters, the concept of time travel brings about some serious and irreconcilable lapses in logic.
(I can't find the original post to give proper credit, but whoever mentioned "how can daniel '96 teach the rat in 2 hours what it already knows and is dead..." illustrates my point perfectly).

My point is that I finally realized that I don't need answers. In fact, getting the answers lessens my enjoyment of the show, because the answers are fairy-tale nonsense and only serve to disconnect me from the "reality" of the show.

It's like traveling 13 hours by car to disneyland when you were a kid, almost pissing yourself from excitement for the whole trip, and then getting there and realizing mickey mouse is just some jerk in a costume.

To quote someone from last year: Razzle, dazzle! Terrific ep. And Mac, you are just the best. As a longtime Parrothead, the Jimmy Buffett reference was classic.

Best comic quote of the night: Sayid says "Give me a minute".

Clementine, I absolutely fell apart (ie cried) when Des and Penny connected. And yes, Henry Ian Cusick is HOT! To avoid a catfight of our own over him, you can have the 1996 Des; I prefer the 2004 version.

When the show ended last night, all I could say was: my head hurts. The writers are undisputed geniuses.

Is Charlotte a time traveler, too, or simply Daniel's lovely assistant? I have a million other questions, but will defer to the rest of you and your thoughts. I feel a nosebleed coming on.

Seems a lot of posters can't get over the whole 'Faraday gave Des the info/Des gave Faraday the info' thing. I think it's either that Faraday eventually figured out the correct numbers himself (before coming to the island) but wants Des to tell him in 1996 so that he can get a head start (like being locked out of your house in the freezing cold for 3 hours before you eventually find that the back door is unlocked- wouldn't you love it if someone came from the future and told you to try the back door? You'd save hours of misery) or- here's another option- Faraday figured out the info somehow while on the island. He's been conducting experiments and thinks he's got it. Also, someone asked what's up with Faraday saying he wouldn't teach Eloise the maze for another 2 hours, but I'm pretty sure he actually said another hour (not 2). So the 75 minutes works fine there.

I have to say someone really knows were this show is going when you watch an EP with Desmond as the focus. The reason I think this is because of his appears. He goes from a full beard to clean shaved and long hair to short hair and it does not look like it is fake or makeup. This means they shot the scenes with beard and long hair weeks ago then filmed scene with the short hair no beard later or the other way around. They have been doing this type of scene mixing with Desmond for a quiet a long time. Which means they have this mapped out a long way out, so bearded scene or no beard scene have been in the can for a while.

Well somebody has to ask,,,,,Where does Ol’ Smokey play out in all of this?

Desmond was flashing the light in his own eyes trying to initiate time travel, was that what Ol’ Smokey was doing to Kate and Juliet when they were handcuffed together and hiding in the jungle trees and the super bright light was flashing at them?

Long time reader- first time poster.
@100 Joe you wrote: "The producers reinforced that the show is 'paradox averse', meaning that when a character time travels, nothing they do can change the present or future we have already seen on the show. This is why they introduced the concept of 'the universe having a way of course correcting' so many episodes ago.
So even if a character goes back in time and changes something significant, the universe will 'course correct' so that the future we know (and love?) on the show remains intact. So none of the future-flashes we've already seen can ever be changed."

This makes sense however... why during Desmond's flash-fowards last season if something changed, the future was changed. Charlie was saved several times by altering present events?!?!? It was only when Desmond chose to not intervene did Charlie eventually die.

Long time reader- first time poster.
@100 Joe you wrote: "The producers reinforced that the show is 'paradox averse', meaning that when a character time travels, nothing they do can change the present or future we have already seen on the show. This is why they introduced the concept of 'the universe having a way of course correcting' so many episodes ago.
So even if a character goes back in time and changes something significant, the universe will 'course correct' so that the future we know (and love?) on the show remains intact. So none of the future-flashes we've already seen can ever be changed."

This makes sense however... why during Desmond's flash-forwards last season if something changed, the future was changed. Charlie was saved several times by altering present events?!?!? It was only when Desmond chose to not intervene did Charlie eventually die.

I'm glad Eloise is dead.....worst character ever!!..plus, I hate rats!!

I don't know if anyone posted this already, but when they are auctioning the Black Rock, I believe the item number is 2342. Another Easter Egg?

Has anyone thought to compare Desmond's profile with the screen caps of Jacob? Hmmmm.

@AC ->62:

Let's try this -

In 1994 Daniel Faraday is working on a time travel experiment with Eloise. He can't get the machine to work and he spends the next 6 years trying different frequencies and oscillations. Then in 2000 he hit's upon the right frequency and the experiment works.

In 2004 Daniel Faraday is on the island and Desmond tells him he's flashing back to 1996. Daniel needs past Desmond to convince 1994 Daniel that he's telling the truth. Daniel remembers the frustration of the failed experiments in 94 and knows that by giving Desmond the correct frequencies 1994 Daniel will be skeptical but will believe him enough to try the information. When it works he'll then completely believe Desmond is from the future.

So you claim that it's a paradox because of the whole information exchange and that Daniel wouldn't have had it if Desmond hadn't traveled back - etc etc etc.

I believe it's still possible the way it's explained above. Daniel discovered it and gave it to Desmond to have it given to past Daniel before he would have discovered it anyway. Either way - Faraday get's the machine to work.

Maybe I'm not making sense.

Adjusted anagram for future reference:

ANTP? = Anyone Notice The Pee?
*Chuck Widmore took a massive pee in this episode!! Sweet! Can you say Easter Egg?

@124: I noticed the pee, but I didn't think it was a particularly long pee in an of itself but rather an effect of prostate issues causing him to have difficulty starting his stream (note the look of aggravation on his face). Of course, being a nurse, I do sometimes have a different take on things. Probably why I got annoyed when the good "Doc" jabbed a needle in Fisher Stevens in a place that you would not give an injection, although that's a minor matter next to the potential paradox of time travel.

This ep made me cry almost as much as when Ol' Yeller takes a dirt nap. Guess I'm just an old softie...

Elizabeth Mitchell and Sonya Wilger...good Lord...my cup runneth over...

I don't think Old Man Widmore was being nice to Des when he gave up Pen's address. I think he thought Penny would slam the door in Des' face and get some closure.

And the numbers showed up someplace else I just can't remember exactly where...something had the descriptor 42231615. Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

sorry; that was a typo; I meant "in and of itself"

This might have been covered, but I haven't read all the comments.

There seems to be a hole in the plot where as Des would know about the call he would have to make to penny while on the Island. But, it seems like what ever happened to Des in the copter made his mind/consousness beome that of 1996 Des. So for the whole episode, Des on the freightner had Des's 1996 mind. Now once he had the constant and talked to penny, Des on the boat finally got his 2004 mind back, and he remembered sayid, etc.

If we look at Back to the future style, this is the starting point of a new time line, where as the Des we saw in 1996 will now have the future knowledge. The des we see on the boat is the original point of the new timeline and would not have had that knowledge, but all subsequent Desmond's will.

with that said I think my brain is about to burst, goodnight all

@ Mister_Grimm/#123: Exactly!! Well said indeed.

Also, I believe that Faraday's black book has a whole slew of juicy info that we'll be usefull in the future. I think someone (besides me) should do some screen-shots of him flipping through the pages. If I recall properly, the page opposite of "Desmond Hume will be my constant" had what looked like a table/graph where on one axis it said 'real-time' and the other axis says 'imaginary time'? Alright, everybody get on that....NOW!!

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and make a prediction regarding Ben's ability that was referenced by Miles last week.

In season 2 when Ben was being held captive in the Swan hatch there were a couple of instances where the Jack, or Locke would open the door to his cell and Ben would slowly straighten up - almost as if he had just been meditating or napping. What if he was actually traveling? Ben's ability might be that he can focus his consciousness and travel at will.

Just a guess. Last night's episode connected the dots for me.

Did anyone notice the Actor playing Keamy (from Vegas on the boat) has another acting connection to Lost. He was in Wild Hogs as Tom (Mr. Friendly or Zeke) sidekick when they find the Wild Hogs in the little town in New Mexico.

@6 Clementine:

ROTFLOL!!!

That was awesome! Gotta get back to the rest of the posts.

@77 Cecil Rose
Lost Timeline.

Can't wait until they post a new timeline. Would it read?

So in 1996 Desmond was in the Army and was busy stopping a nose bleed he was going to have in 2004.

I'd like to see the universe correct itself if Desmond in 1996 went bonkers from the flash-whatevers and killed himself or better yet Dan.

But if Des kills Dan how will he be in Saving Private Ryan...Oh the mind positively reels...

Red...Neck...Man:

You can already find screen caps of DF's chalkboard and notebook on the 'net. A couple of interesting points.

His chalkboard says "Kerr Metric" and has equations and diagrams consistent with the label. The Kerr Metric is a field equation solution for describing the behavior of a rotating black hole. That doesn't seem to relate to "Lost" much, but for this: One implication of the Kerr Metric solution is that a rotating black hole can create a wormhole at it's event horizon--one that allows (theoretically) an object to physically time travel to its own past.

Another interesting aspect of both the chalkboard and the notebook is that they apparent