Lost Reviews and News

first? love ya, meg!

Well - not a bad follow up.

Quick points -

Why did the killing crew even bother with burying Rousseau and Karl? And why did they do such a half ass job?

Juliet - I like you so much more now!

Great review Mac, even if it was brief.

Claire never learned Christian Shephard's name. So the only way she could refer to him would be as her father or dad.

Someone new has been posting as Christine, so to prevent confusion I should come up with a new name ... any ideas?

I think Claire's "Dad?" was to remind viewers that she's Jack's 1/2 sister. Sometime soon she'll have to reappear & tell everyone who she saw so Jack can figure it out. Or maybe he'll see them together.

I thought it was weirder that both Kate & Jack referred to Aaron as "the baby." They didn't do that on the island. I thought my husband & I were the only couple in the world to do that past the age of 6 mos. (We still do sometimes, and the loveable youngster is almost 19.)

Did anyone get the feeling that future Jack was aware that Aaron was a relative? I think it was when he was all Stalkerish with Kate, and said something like "You're not even a relative".

I did find it funny that just before Jack sees the image of his father, the smoke detector is activated. Perhaps Smokie really is behind the apparitions on and off the island?

Why did Claire awaken in the middle of the night and go with "dad?"

Okay...

Why did Claire awaken after the bungalow exploded and go with "Charlie?", while looking at James?

Maybe she's 'walking dead/wounded'. She's already a mort (zombie). That's why Christian came for her.

And Miles, he was aware of the whole 'she went off with some dude thing'. Did his spidey-senses tingle? - waking him up when Christian floated in to camp, or was it just a waking dream?

Where do we get that Jack knows that Aaron is his nephew? He doesn't even know yet that Claire is his sister. The - you're not even related - slash at Kate may just mean that Claire is the birth mom, not you (Kate).

I like that Christian showing up at hospital coincides with the smoke alarm... or is that SMOKEY alarm?

@7

It seems rather suggestive that Jack might know by this point that Clair is his half sister, but by no means is this for certain.

Isn't it possible that Kate's errand "for Sawyer" - we don't know that she was talking to him - was something for his daughter with the chica from the Long Con (who's name I've forgotten), who Kate later ended up with while she was on the lamb (trying to get in touch with her mother)? If Jack has put together that Claire was his sister, maybe Kate has put together that her con-artist friend was connected to Sawyer.

Kate did say that what she was doing had nothing to do with her and Jack. Helping Sawyer's daughter certainly wouldn't. And Sawyer wouldn't want anyone to know about the abandoned daughter. (Kate said "He wouldn't want me to tell you.")

@9

My first thought was that it would have something to do with Clementine.

Did anyone notice when Jack said to Kate that she wasn't even related to Aaron, that he had a sort of self-dignifying tone to his voice?

Does this mean that somehow he knows he's related to Claire AND Aaron?

Just a thought. We'll see if the writers do something with it.

I'M OUT!

I’ve been away for several weeks - watching episodes 5 days late - but tonight I got to see the “first run” version and wow, right off the bat, first big and very pleasant surprise is Kate stepping out of the shower! (I must admit, I kind of hoped it was Juliet - she’s turned into such a “good egg” of late . . .I know, I know - she’s NOT one of the O6, but afterall, she wasn’t ON the plane and no one still says that other folks on the island don’t get off. I mean, like, explain Benny -Boy and his future rovings!)

I agree with Mac - If Juliet goes out - I hope it’s the Mother of All Glorious Take-outs! She deserves it. (Nice moment in the operating tent with Kate concerning “the” Jack-kiss.)

Plus she must be a SUPER SURGEON, because if I saw correctly in my rewind, Jack doesn’t even have a surgical scar in the opening scene!

I’m really bummed out that Danielle is really dead. I’ve been waiting for that 16 year flashback when Ben and Friends kidnap Alex. Of course, with that guy in the preview indicating that he’s been dead for 12 years, obviously no one, even dead people, have to REALLY worry about getting totally written out of the story line . . . good grief, how about that old drunkard, the original Dr. Shepherd? That guy keeps wandering in and out, season after season.

(Of course, unlike “shot-up-like-a-rocket’ WALT, it’s easier for old guys to stay the same . . . Hey, I turned 62 at Christmas. and heck, I don’t look at day over 60.5 if I do say so myself!)

And with all the hubbub about Aaron and Claire, Aaron and Kate, Aaron and Jack, Aaron and the Australian Psychic . . Let’s all remember that way back in season one, C & D said that Aaron would be a “very important character to the mythology of the show” . . . .

I must admit, Jack can be such a fuss-whussitt at times. You and I both know that Kate is probably taking care of Sawyer’s business with Cassidy and Clementine. But can Jack just let it go? . . Noooooooo, he has to sink into his Paranoid-Jack Jumpsuit! What a jerk.

Hey, four scenes with Kate in her underwear! THE smile wouldn‘t leave my face for three weeks! (Don’t give me that “age” thing . . You YOUNG GUYS are thinking EXACTLY the same thing I’m thinking . . .! . . )

By the way, I loved the "Jin playing Korean James Cagney” with the Red-headed chick! I kept waiting for him to push a grapefruit in her face.

Well, looking forward to meeting Jacob, the hay-raker, or whomever that young dead, yet glibly talking, dude was in the previews next week.

I'm out of here.

Thanks Mac.

Last episode I figured Miles could "smell" Claire's impending death, as though she had already sustained the injury that would kill her; I said if she had a headache this episode she was a goner. Sure enough she had a headache and then wandered off with dead Dr.Dad. It does not bode well for Claire. Or not...Who the hell knows? I sure don't know!

Sorry to see Rousseau really is dead. But death appears to be about as relative as time on the island.
How on earth can the warning that only Claire must raise Aaron still apply if Claire is dead? So it must mean she is alive. Or not...

If we work on the premise that because Claire had gone missing the tough decision was made at the time of rescue to evacuate Aaron from the island in Kate's custody, that is a good explanation of why Jack orginally had difficulty being around Aaron. He felt guilty for taking the baby without certainty that his mother was dead.

Why would Christian accompany Claire away from her baby if no one should raise Aaron but Claire? Is that an indication that even among the walking dead there are warring factions? Charlie (through Hurley)is telling Jack, "You can't raise him." But Christian separates Claire from Aaron at a crucial moment?

The implication from Charlie's caution to Jack is that if Aaron had remained on the island, Claire would be raising him. So maybe Claire shows up again next episode alive and well. Or maybe she shows up dead and well.

Charlie visits Hurley. Christian visits Jack. So why can't Claire permanently visit Kate and raise Aaron heself?

Looks like the previews give us a hint as to the nature of the forest whisperers.

Haha, I told you guys they were ramping up the Jack-Kate romance this week, after seeing Kate's seemingly pointless flirting and taking her arms out of her tank top straps last week I just knew they were setting us up for this week. But wow, I didn't realize how much!

Well, I guess this sets the records straight on Jack's feelings. Kate's always been the girl for him, regardless of all the other craziness that's happened. Seems like he's destined to constantly lose to Sawyer though. I'm willing to bet that when (this is an assumption on my part, not a spoiler) the 06 go back to the island for the final apocalyptic showdown or whatever, Sawyer (who has been alive while the 06 were off island) ends up with Kate at the end after they win and defeat evil forever or whatnot. It would follow the typical cosmic law that goes something like

"nice guy leader types with a tendency towards OCD and heavy breathing will always lose out to roguish assholes who secretly have hearts of gold."

Kind of like how Luke lost out to Han over Leia. Well, without the incest. (Unless you count Shannon and Boone, but that was really no more incest than when George Michael got to 2nd with Maebe by "going in head first, like Pete Rose")

Anyway, enough rambing. Night all!

Oh, also Lost is the best show ever made.

Sixteenth!

No one has mentioned the fact that Hurley told Jack he thinks they are all really dead and were never supposed to leave the island. I know the purgatory theory was shot down early on, but this kind of makes me wonder about that again. It would be hard to explain how they are now back in the "real world", but with the constant appearance of the supposedly dead people it leads me to think that they could be "lost souls" who have not yet "crossed over." I put all these phrases in quotation because I am not a person who has been interested in this sort of thing in a personal way so I am just using phrases I am familiar with from watching movies with this subject-matter. Does anyone have a comment about Hurley's "theory?"

Was just rewatching the episode, had a few more random thoughts:

It was so awesome when Faraday was like, "See, that, Charlotte, your, uh, attitude, your, uh, VERY BAD attitude, it's uh, exactly why they don't trust us." This was my favorite quote of the episode. God Charlotte is such a hateful b&tch. I hope she gets riddled with bullets like, yesterday.

To quote Mac: "God bless you, Doctor Burke." Her magnanimity in her little scene with Kate where she tells her that Jack loves Kate, was nothing less than saintly.

Why do they keep teasing this "they're all dead" stuff when the producers debunked the rumor a long time ago? Both Hurley and the dastardly Anthony Cooper have made recent allusions to this.

I took a couple Clonazepam and drank a beer once, (as Jack is seen doing in this ep) I highly recommend that no one ever do this. I lost almost all coordination, it was rather scary. Once Jack decides he's gonna get f'ed up, he doesn't mess around, huh?

What's with the whole Sawyer-restraining order thing? 2nd episode in a row where he's uncharacteristically overprotective. Are they trying to set us up for some future development perhaps? Which will help explain why Sawyer and Claire apparently did not leave the Island.

Anyone else wonder if Jack's obsessive need to fix things (like his own appendix) is meant to be his tragic flaw? Will things end badly for the good doctor because of this? I hope not, Jack is awesome, despite his super annoying breathing and tendency to get all intense and start yelling and emphasizing random words.

I think Lapidus crapped his pants when he was covering for Claire, Sawyer and Miles with the commandos.

Too bad the smoke alarm didn't make the hatch 4 minute warning beep. I'm starting to miss it. Man I miss the hatch!

Kate+Undergarments=win!

The newspaper article that Jack reads at Kate’s house,

http://tinyurl.com/42m6pl

appears to have been taken from this NY Times article of August 31, 2007

http://tinyurl.com/4mxfpe

Can this be used to reliably date the flash-forward or is it just a case of production copying an article for their convenience? They have to know how obsessive we fans are about the details at this point. But it would seem to me the events here should be taking place in 2005.

********************************

The scene with Hurley at Santa Rosa freaked me out. Jorge Garcia is awesome. Hurley doesn’t believe that his current reality is real. He reminds Jack, doesn’t it all seem too perfect? Charlie’s delivering “raised by another” messages, and Jack will soon have a visitor of his own.

What if the future is not as it should be? What if the course needs to be reverse-corrected, as Jack realizes by the time he is flying the friendly skies.

When Hurley visits Sun after Ji Yeon’s birth, he seems content. He is particularly happy when Sun responds to his question about anyone else coming with “No”. “Good,” he says. Perhaps not because he’s had a falling out with his Oceanic Six friends, but because he knows they have returned to the island.

********************************

I agree about Claire being one of the walking dead. Here were my thoughts after the last episode,
“Claire's house exploded into nothingness and yet Claire survived with very little injury. What if the healing properties of the island saved her (for some reason), but she is now unable to leave the island without dying. That could possibly explain why she would give up Aaron to Kate, and why Miles commented "I wouldn't say that" when Claire said she was alright. Maybe Miles can see her "aura" of death or injury that's being masked by the island.”

I noticed they referenced Claire’s “vision” of Charlie that was cut last week. Will we ever get to see it?

********PREVIEW SPOILER************

Was that Horace Goodspeed saying that he’s been dead for 12 years? Didn’t get a good look at him. I don’t think that fits the Dharma timeline, and no one else has mentioned it, so I’m guessing not. But I hope they’re not adding random dead people at this point.

*******END PREVIEW SPOILER*******

The thing that everybody's seems to forget is that Desmond said to Charlie that he saw Claire get on the helicopter with Aaron and Desmond seems to be right with predicting the future stuff.
That was the reason for Charlie to dive down to the station en turn off the switch

Am I just getting used to Dan's speech pattern, or is the island curing his stuttering?

Also up for "Best Line Nominee":

Faraday - Where do you think all this power comes from?

Charlotte - Add that one to the list.

Thanks Mac...great review despite the late hours.

Regarding Jack/Aaron...I too thought right off that somehow Jack knows that he is his nephew. Not sure why...wasn't clearly stated, but that was my first impression. Don't really know what is up with Claire...can't even formulate a theory. The great thing (sometimes frustrating thing) about Lost is that they have us jumping back and forth in the timeline of events that I honestly trust that it will all come together at the end.

Agree that we got more insight into how Bearded Jack came to be...always wondered after Season 3 how our "Hero" could have gotten in such a state. After re-watching, I wonder how Jack could come to "accept" Aaron, move in with him and Kate (when he couldn't even agree to a cup of coffee with Kate in the parking garage after her trial because he couldn't "accept" Aaron), be so happy, propose and then be so easily paranoid over a night time outing of Kate's. There must be more information that has yet to be revealed as to why a little doubt on his part woulod send him to drugs, alcohol and self destruction. That whole progression just doesn't sit well with me.

Why did Juliet reveal all that to Kate while she was stiching Jack up knowing he was awake...? Why was he pretending to be out? I was thinking they would go back to that to kind of finish, but no. Any thoughts?

I have more questions after this episode than I had yesterday. Not sure why Hurley is losing it. He did seem to be okay when he went to see Sun. (And assuming out of the mental facility facility since he was able to travel would imply that he had "recovered".)

How many more episodes are left this season?

Agree that there must be something to Rose and Bernard's conversation...again, not sure what...

Also noticed in the opening scene...Jack all wrapped up in that towel...don't care if he breathes funny and goes a bit cross-eyed when he's really inflammed about something...he's still hot. Did not see a scar either... Perhaps the island healed him...? Then why did the appendicitis happen to start with...? Locke's gun shot wound...pretty much healed. Jack's surgery scars healed...hmmm...

Oh yeah...anyone notice that right before the "check battery/your dad's ghost is in the lobby" smoke detector beep went off, Jack was looking at x-rays of what seemed to be the same tumor on the spine issue as Ben's...? Anything...?

Hey Mac - Great Recap - Short, but still sweet.

I don't know if anyone pointed it out - I haven't read through the posts, but I just wanted to point out Claire's "daddy" decleration. She called him "Dad" when she saw him because she doesn't know his real name. When they where at the coffee shop he wanted to tell her his name but Claire told him she didn't want to know it. So upon seeing him in the jungle she called him the only thing she could - Dad.

I did notice one strange thing - when Jack was walking around in a towel in the FF there was no sign of a scar from his island operation. We know that Juliet stitched up the incision, so where's the scar?

@Mister_Grimm/25

True that Claire did not want to know his name, but something odd about that whole. First of all, it was dark, middle of the night and she could tell who he was from across the campfire...someone she only met once...? Also, calling him "Dad" did not make sense. "Dad" is not just a name...for someone to use the word "Dad", means that he would be more than just the man who fathered her and after their last meeting, their relationship did not appear to have reached that level. Starting to think that that was for story purposes only. They needed to set up the whole Jack/Claire/Aaron relations.

Re: Claire & Dad - The only other thing she could have called him was "you?" and that would have made no sense whatsoever. I think Claire calling Christian Dad makes perfect sense. That's all she knows him as regardless of their lack of a realtaionship.

Re: The Flash Forwards - I think it helps if we figure out what chronological order they happen:

- Sun gives birth. Explains why Hurley is ok.

- Hurley in the mental hospital. Hurley's not as far gone as he is last night and Jack is not drugged up.

- Kate's trial. This could switch with Hurley in the mental hospital.

- Jack & Kate living the dream.

- Drugged out Jack.

- Sayid and Ben's flash forwards are their own separate storyline from the others.

@boodle: 27

I agree - I'm just saying that it was the only thing she could call him, instead of "Hey there sperm donor guy". LOL. It's also strange that we assume she went with him willingly into the jungle. We only have Mile's word for it. It's possible that Ghost Daddy coerced Claire into going into the jungle with him by threatening to harm Aaron, he was holding the baby when she woke up.

Everyone has a theory about what is going on. It seems now that Hurley has his own theory -- they're all dead. Any comments about that?

Thanks for the short but sweet review Mac.

I agree that Claire calling Dr. Daddy "Dad" was somewhat for story purposes (just to remind the masses that he's Claire's Dr. Daddy too)...but I also agree with those that are saying it was just logical for her to say "Dad". She doesn't know his name, and it would've taken too much time to say "Man who knocked up my mum".

I'm so glad it's really really clear now that future Aaron is Claire's Aaron...there were some really out there theories floating around about how he could be Kate's bio-kid.

But I'm really bothered that Jack didn't actually come out and say to Kate "You're not even related to him...but I am!" or something like that. Just so we'd have confirmation that Jack really knows about his 1/2 uncle status. I DO think he was implying it to Kate, but I wanted confirmation.

@Clementine /19: Maybe Hurley was happy with Sun cos he didn't yet realize everything was "too perfect."

@boodle/23: 1) Jack wanted the cup of coffee after the trial, it was Kate who nixed it.

2) Juliet said her piece to Kate while she knew Jack was awake. As much as she likes him, she doesn't want to be used, or 2nd choice. If she confronted Jack, he'd disagree.

Therefore, to connect Clementine & boodle: Each of the O6 will slowly realize things aren't right. Hurley & Jack got it and descended into madness. When will the rest catch on? What will happen to Aaron? Will he become a sparkly-eyed genius? Will he send people into the cornfield?

Yankees Bludgeon Red Sox in Sweep
August 28 29 30, 2007 (How'd that work out for 'em?) Kate has to be some kind of bitch to leave the paper open to that page laying around the house.
No way did Juliet take out Jack's appendix. (Rose, the island heals) (Jack, you are shaving the wrong area) (Bernard, I have to knock you out) She either put something in Jack or maybe he had a baby.

Re: The 2007 Newspaper article - Makes sense in relation to Aaron that they've been off the island for almost three years. It would mean that Aaron is not a freaky time baby. It also makes sense in relation to Kate's trial. There was no way, the way our judicial system works, that Kate's trial would take less than a year.

If we reason it out. The O6 get back to civilization in early '05. Kate gets a month or two celebrity status while the law figures out what to do with her (she would've been declared dead at this point with the Widmore/Ben cover-up). She goes to trial by late '05/early '06. Her trial goes for a few months. Acquittal by mid '06. Her and Jack eventually hook up.

I noticed the scar thing right away, and I rewound it to be sure. The writers made a point of showing Jack's abdomen, where the scar should be. I think they want us to know that there isn't a scar. But Juliet definitely stitched him up, so maybe there's something to the time-travel thing going on with the future-flashes, or Jack's, anyway.
@Cissy/17: The first thing I thought regarding the absence of the scar was that Hurley was right. Jack wouldn't have a scar if he were dead. But I think there's too many details in the future stories for them to be dead, doesn't make sense.

@Clementine/19: The future flash can't be 2005, because Aaron is about 3 years old. So 2007 makes sense.

OK, as much as I hate the idea, here are a few of my thoughts on the whole "we're all dead" theory.

In this episode, we never actually saw Hurley, or Kate interacting with anyone. And the 2 times Jack interacted with that other doctor/nurse lady, it also happened to be when he was seeing Christian Shepherd. He also interacted with Hurley's doctor at the mental hospital, but his line of "He doesn't think I exist" kinda weirded me out.

I know we see the O6 (except Hurley, maybe?) interacting with other people in other episodes (Sun's birth, Kate's trial) but it seemed like they were being careful of that in this episode.

Another unrelated thought, why didn't Claire seem more freaked out by Christian Shepard not only taking Aaron and holding him while she was sleeping, but also just BEING on the island. I'm pretty sure I would have leaped over that fire to get to my child. She just looked slightly confused and then calmly wandered off into the jungle without letting anyone know where she was going.

AND as someone else mentioned, if Claire is dead but alive on the island and she'll die if she leaves the island, why couldn't Aaron just stay with her and she could still raise him? I don't understand why Aaron had to leave unless Claire is good and dead. And with Claire somewhere in the jungle and possibly near death while Kate is on the beach, then what in the world gives Kate the right to raise Aaron? How did she get custody? And how would Jack learn of his relationship to Claire and Aaron? Why would he not want to see Aaron?

So, yeah. I have a few more more unanswered questions.

And something else I've been wondering about this season that they haven't touched on at all is the relationships of all the Losties BEFORE they got on Oceanic 815. Obviously we know that they are all linked, but we still don't understand why or how.

Okay, I'm done rambling...

Josh, I was repeating what you said about the date, we must have posted at the same time.

notsoeasy, re Kate's having custody of Aaron, I think she told everyone when they returned that Aaron was her baby, so there was no custody mess to deal with. I don't remember hearing otherwise, but if I'm wrong, please someone let me know.

33. Posted by: lostsox
No way did Juliet take out Jack's appendix

Bernard confirmed to Kate that Juliet did a good job with the surgery

I had the strangest feeling after Hurley said they were all dead that we would end up seeing Island Jack die during the surgery. It would have blown our minds to wonder how he could die and then be alive in the future. Didn't happen though but the abscense of the scar still makes me go hmmmmmmmmm.

@hurling/32

You're right...I was mistaken...Jack wanted to get together, but Kate nixed it because she felt no point since he couldn't accept Aaron...

Aaron future will be sending people in the cornfield...HA...what a hoot!!

@notsoeasy/36

Interesting...O6 lack of interaction with "possibly live" folks. Don't forget...Jack walked a patient out of his office discussing what I think might be his surgery the next morning. Kate had conversation with the nanny after returning home from her trial when we first discovered she had Aaron and although we didn't see it, Jack relieved the nanny when he returned home early to grab a beer or 3 or 4 waiting to catch Kate in her "lies".

I had my appendix out when I was 15 (centuries ago...) and the scar is surprisingly low. Below my waist-line for sure. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that Jack's scar is below his towel line in that scene...seriously. In fact, I remember being very uncomfortable when I had to have a certain area of my body shaved before the surgery...which in reality is where Juliet should've been shaving Jack too.

Now that would've made for some great TV!

@ JoePike #42

I agree with you about the scar being low. My husband had an appendictomy a few years ago and his scar is right around his groin area....certainly not visible when he walks around in a towel.

I think they buried Karl and Danielle (in shallow graves, Mac) in order to make it look like they disappeared (for the islanders) or have the area attract polar bears.

Why was a multimillion dollar building protected with a smoke detector? I would love to see the insurance rates!

DYNNS: Did You Notice No Scar?

Re: The Scar - you're all probably correct about where apendectomy scars are generally located - but we saw where Juliet made the incision and later was stitching him up, it was not near his groin - it was a pretty lengthy incision just above his hip to the side of his abdomen - although if it had been near the groin female viewership would have skyrocketed.

I just wanted to let you all know I am here, and I am not MIF...nor am I MID. I haven't watched the episode yet, and am restraining myself from the review. By the time I get home and watch it there will be over 100 comments for sure. By then I hope I'll be "MID", but alas, then it will take longer to muddle through.

Until then, scarf and namaste to all.

I'm just really bothered by all the dead people showing up...walking around...talking to live people... Charlie, Dr. Daddy...

** PREVIEW SPOILER **

...and now next week it looks like Horace Goodspeed (or whatever his name is) is going to have a chat with Locke...

** END PREVIEW SPOILER **

So what's the deal? Are they really ghosts? Are they all Smokey in disguise like Yemi was when talking to Eko? I mean it still fits with the producer mantra that when you're dead you're dead, but we really need an explanation as to how and why these life-deficient people are interacting with alive people.

According to the psychic from season 1, the only way the world will be safe is if Aaron is raised by his mother. So maybe Dr. Daddy's 'abduction' of Claire is a step in the plan of some bad forces trying to keep him away from her. And maybe Charlie is on the 'good' side, trying to help convince Jack and eventually Kate that they shouldn't be raising Aaron, and they need to get him back to Claire on the island. Assuming of course that Claire isn't face up in the dirt...

@ Clementine/19 - "The newspaper article that Jack reads at Kate’s house
appears to have been taken from this NY Times article of August 31, 2007"

I think the article Jack reads in paper is from August 22, 2006. Most likely the LA Times. The Yankees just completed a 5 game sweep of the Red Sox - scoring 54 runs in the series (the bludgeoning). A-Rod had a great series batting .333, with an on base % of 571, and accounted for 10 of the runs (5 scored and 5 driven in) In the Aug 2007 series, the Yankees swept the Sox in 3 games, by a combined score of 14-6> But A-Rod had a very quiet series going only 2 for 9 with a single RBI.
Also, (although not 'canon') the date of the paper that Jack reads the obit at the end of season 3 is from April 2007, and that appears to take place after the scene in Kate's house.

Let us never again speak of that five game debacle ;)

@44 - PiecesofArzt >> Why was a multimillion dollar building protected with a smoke detector? >>
The smoke(monster) detectors are to discourage patients and visitors from smoking - like the ones that are installed in airplane bathrooms. Smoking is an even bigger "no-no" in most hospitals.

I just noticed something BIG! This is a major timeline discovery. In the opening flash-forward scene, Jack stepped on the Millenium Falcon toy from the Star Wars movies. Now, the very first Star Wars movie came out in 1977...stick with me here...which means that the date of this flash-forward has to be sometime AFTER 1977!

Can't believe I'm the first one to point this out.

;o)

@JoePike/51

LOL...I actually did "...stick with me here..." and all I could do was chuckle at myself!!

@19 Clementine

********PREVIEW SPOILER************

My theory (which I rehashed yesterday in the theories topic) is that Horace Goodspeed is Ben's real father, NOT Roger "workman" Linus.

As for the timeline, his being dead for 12 years places the Purge around 1992. Ben would've been in his late 20's at the time. Of course, to quote Faraday in last week's episode "time is a relative thing"

Am I correct that the Dharma Orientation video for the Swan predates 1992? If so, the purge could not be "the incident" the video refers to.

*******END PREVIEW SPOILER*******

Flash forward date:

If you read the poorly written newspaper article, it states that Yankee Robinson Cano hit two home runs. He did so on August 30, 2007.

@9 - Not that Kate

"...who Kate later ended up with while she was on the lamb..."

People, people, fugitives go on the *lam*, not *lamb*.

=== No lambs were harmed in the creation of this post ===

After re-watch...when Hurley reads Charlie's message to Jack..."You're not supposed to raise him Jack." Hurley asks him if that makes any sense and Jack says it doesn't make any sense. Hurley asks him if he thinks Charlie meant Aaron... Why wouldn't that make sense to Hurley...it seemed to be obvious to me, but maybe there is another meaning there... Just wondering...

Can't believe I actually got to read mac's awesome review and all your comments today. It's a lot easier keeping up with the comments when you get here before they've reached over 100 posts!

******PREVIEW SPOILER******

I think the preview of next week's episode is what shocked me the most. When "that guy" says "I've been dead 12 years" I about crapped my pants. Can't wait to see where this is going! Maybe Hurley is right. Maybe everyone is dead. Maybe when your dead and get killed again, it's permanent? Nope - Mikhael (sp?) negates that theory. He's like the energizer bunny. Keeps going and going... However, we haven't seen him since he "blew up." Maybe that one really did get him.

******* end spoiler **********

So, can't wait to see how this all plays out. And I, too, can confirm that an appendix scar is quite low and mine is only about 3 inches long and you really have to look close to see it anymore.

Have a great weekend all.

Bunnies rule!

Well - i believe that the flash forward was in 2007....besides Aaron's age, I find the phones they use are a good clue (the ring of Kate's phone is the same as mine which we just bought in 2007). Jin's flashback, Jack's bearded flash forward - the cell phones and portable phones give the best clues of the time lines.

As far as I'm concerned, the series can end right here! Jack and Kate get engaged, live happily ever after raising the bastard island baby and having lots of hallway sex. Too perfect! Please don't let it go down the tubes! :(

My favorite line of the whole episode:
Jack: "So when was the last time you did this?"
Juliet: "An appendectomy or shaving a man's stomach?"

@boodle - #56
when Hurley reads Charlie's message to Jack..."You're not supposed to raise him Jack."

At first I thought he was talking about Aaron, but after pondering I thought "maybe" Charlie meant you're not supposed to "raise him" as in Jack's father. Not supposed to raise him from the grave...

(queue spooky music - ooooowwww)

jin's flashlight said: "What's with the whole Sawyer-restraining order thing? 2nd episode in a row where he's uncharacteristically overprotective. Are they trying to set us up for some future development perhaps? Which will help explain why Sawyer and Claire apparently did not leave the Island."
______

I was re-watching Season 1 yesterday & was reminded of this tiny little tidbit TPTB gave us which I had carelessly thrown away: Sawyer had quite a connection with Aaron; his voice would immediately stop Aaron from crying. Sawyer was the only person who could settle the baby in Claire's absence.

So maybe if Claire is dead, Kate & Sawyer were supposed to raise Aaron and that is why Jack is melting down, because he knows on some level that Sawyer is the one who should be there with Aaron and Kate.

@55 - I was three glasses of wine into the evening, please forgive me.

I still think Kate's big secret is not that she's hanging with Sawyer, but with Clementine and Whatshername (the Long Conned).

@BunnyLover/60

Exactly...not sure about the dead dad theory, but we all know that assumptions can't always be made here. If it's so obvious, then why all that wasted interchange between Jack and Hurley...?

I can't believe in 41 entries this Best Line has been ignored!

Sawyer: "It's too early for Chinese" when he awakes to the annoying "I see dead people" guy.

Best visual: Sawyer holding a baby while still having a semi-auto strapped to his back. The juxtaposition was heavenly...
although my husband would argue Kate in her undies for most of the episode was the best visual.

For the ladies...

You can see Jack's scar here:
http://tinyurl.com/3vheon

For the guys, you can also see Kate in her PJs there...

Enjoy;)

Just a quick thought on the whole "character name signifcance" thing. We have a good does of Biblical names in on the Island. Jack (Shephard) is clearly a Moses-Like character - being tasked with leading the people out of the proverbial Egypt. I can't help but think of the connection for him needing to be connected to Aaron. If you recall your Biblical history, Moses was fearful he was not articulate enough to lead his people, and God gave him Aaron. I can't help but think (despite Hurley's admonition via Charlie that Jack "shouldn't be raising" him, there is some necessary connection that in the long run plays out which the writers are using the Biblical name to suggest.

I thought this was interesting too. Found it on another blog:

"Millenium Falcon? Didn't even think about symbolism until reading this board. The Millenium Falcon was the rescue vehicle that saved the galaxy by rescuing the one person who had the plans for destroying the death star. Jack, Hurley, Kate, etc need to save the galaxy."

JoePike #47 said:
"So maybe Dr. Daddy's 'abduction' of Claire is a step in the plan of some bad forces trying to keep him away from her. And maybe Charlie is on the 'good' side, trying to help convince Jack and eventually Kate that they shouldn't be raising Aaron, and they need to get him back to Claire on the island."

But, if you were an evil guy (or a smoke monster) and you were sending an apparition in to get someone to do your evil bidding, would you send them in as someone your mark hardly knows and has cause not to trust...like Dr.Daddy to Claire. Or would you send them in as someone they love and trust....like Charlie to Hurley. Heck...like Yemi to Eko.
Just a little somethinsomethin to complicate matters more.

Didn't post last week but read everything. Nice to be back, checking things out on Friday when I'm supposed to be working.

After this week's and last week's shows, I think I've about given up. I can no longer get all worked up for "answers," only to be fed more questions etc. I think I just gotta relax and let this show take me where it will, for better or worse.

Until, that is, Naomi (that's "I moan" backwards) comes back from the "dead" and proves me right all along.

Lovin' all the dead/undead theories. And i LOVE the fact (first noticed by shikotee?) that the smoke alarm was going off when Christian appeared to Jack, probably (or, actually, knowing this show, probabaly not) tipping of the fact that Smokey and Christian are one and the same.

So strange.

More scantily-clad Kate please...

And Mac, I dig the new "Lost Theories" section.

xo
-chopkins

Re: Hurley

I've been reading that the producers/writers have been saying that the finale will make us wonder how future and past flashes will be able to continue. When I saw Hurley in this episode I wondered about how his worldview fits into the larger mythology.

We know that Desmond can see into the future--at least one possible version of it. What if Hurley somehow has the ability to see all possible futures?

We're getting a lot of hints about the nature of time and perception.

@mac

>Why did Claire call the ghostly Dr. Shephard "Dad"? She spent approximately 15 minutes with this guy in her backstories, yet when he shows up mysteriously on the island she's all "oh hi, Daddy!"? What am I missing here?)

And remember the one time she met him, she refused to call him 'dad' or even learn his name.

-------o

@mac

>...not only does he want to see little Aaron (his nephew, which he seems to know about)...

How do you figure that? From the "You're not even related to him" remark? I didn't get an implication of 'and I am', but I can see how that might be one way to read it.

-------o

@mac

>... (presuming Sawyer and Jin are kicking back with Dharma bear and English lessons).

Would that be of the Polar variety?

-------o

@12 davidrh croaked out:

>I’m really bummed out that Danielle is really dead. I’ve been waiting for that 16 year flashback when Ben and Friends kidnap Alex.

Hey there, grampa (young thing that I am, I didn't hit 62 'til March). Maybe we still get the promised Rousseau flashback through Miles - who knows how much he picked up in his
commune with the departed.

-------o

@13 undaunted prophesied:

>Looks like the previews give us a hint as to the nature of the forest whisperers.

*** POSSIBLE SLIGHT SPOILER ALERT ***

If the whispers transcripts posted in some websites can be trusted, some of the whispered dialogues seemed clearly to come from the deceased, e.g. Boone "Hi, sis!" (when Shannon appeared)

***END SPOILER ALERT ***

-------o

@19 Clementine asked:

********PREVIEW SPOILER************

>Was that Horace Goodspeed saying that he’s been dead for 12 years? Didn’t get a good look at him. I don’t think that fits the Dharma timeline, and no one else has mentioned it, so I’m guessing not. But I hope they’re not adding random dead people at this point.

Yes, that was definitely the old Roger recruiter.

And the Lostpedia timeline states:

"1992 4 pm December 19th, The Purge takes place."

So that would definitely place Horace's death 12 years before the late Dec 2004 events of next week.

*******END PREVIEW SPOILER*******

-------o

@bunnylover:

Taking the day off, or found a way around the blocking software?

-------o

@65 IdMonster pointed out:

>You can see Jack's scar here:

Thanks. And what an idiot I am. My first reaction was "The scar is on the worng side!" Then I remembered I was looking at a mirror image.

... and what about the freighter mercenaries surviving the wrath of Smokey?

One point to add, JACK was Kate's husband to be now, she should tell him everything. She should have been up front to begin with. Sawyer would have got over it.
If he was off doing favors for Juliet she would have wanted to know.

@dharma boy/72

So much to talk about...forgot about that. Yeah, and the one guy that looks the most injured...was he the one that was trying to get away and Smokey grabbed him and pulled him back into the forest... Smokey was not known to "injure" and not finish the job. You also have to wonder, along with all the screaming in the woods during Smokey's terror, there was a lot of gun fire...assuming they were trying to shoot Smokey...like that even makes any sense. Wouldn't you think...in the woods, Smokey attacking, confusion and spraying gunfire, that a few of them would have been killed by the bullets from all their automatic weapons...?

I also wanted to add that I think Kate loves Jack in a father/brother way, but chose Jack because she thought he would be good for her and ultimately a good baby daddy. But I think she truly LOVES Sawyer, So she used jack. Its her fault they broke up.

@dharma boy 72

Good point. But to be fair, some of them did look pretty banged up, and we dont know how many there were to begin with, and now it appears theres only 4 or 5, tops. Perhaps in all the hubbub when Ben summoned Smokey/Christian/Weather Channel Wet Dream that the beast simply didnt have time to finish the job...

.... or was somehow, for some reason, instructed not to.

xo
-chopkins

This is my first post. Not very good at this. I did notice that Jack was driving his old Bronco in last nights episode. This was the same Bronco that was involved in the crash in the episode last season when Jack had the heavy beard. Not sure if anyone has pointed this out. Helped me with timeline.

Great comments so far. Need to think more on it, but here's my immediate $.02.

When I remove the battery from my smoke detector, it continues to beep until I put in a new one. If they quit beeping, that would defeat the purpose. (Loved the Smoke Monster connection/warning.)

What? He couldn't give her a bigger diamond???

-12 davidrh
-71 Cecil

Wow. Had no idea there was anyone older than moi here. I'll be 62 in Dec. Nice to have company. ;-)

Back to the 06: Aside from Kate's trial, she seems to be at peace - as opposed to Jack and Hurley, although Hurley eventually finds it, too. And Sun seems to be ok. And Sayid, too, until Nadia gets killed. Aaron's a baby, so he doesn't count (yet). So why are Hurley and Jack so tortured? Of course, there's still a lot to come, but they seem to be the only ones (so far) with visions. I'm going somewhere with this, but can't seem to pull it together.

@ chopkins 76

Also makes sense that the writers had to keep Cremie and a few mercs alive to set up the confrontation (per Mac) back on the freighter when Sayid channels Rambo.

@IdMonster #65:

I stand corrected - there is a small flat scar on Jack's right side - that should quiet the rumblings about "The Scar".
And thank you 1,000 times for the Kate pics - my wandering thoughts thank you !

@ dharma boy 80

Man, I cannot wait for Sayid to get all pimp-tastic and finally beat some ass on the freighter. He effin rules so hard.

Did anyone notice in this scene when the mercs show up, that Lapidus is running AWAY from them with the first Aid kit... or did it just seem that way? It seems like Lapidus comes crashing through the jungle with the first aid kit, tells Sawyer, Miles, Clarron to hide, then Kreamy shows up with his walking wounded from the same direction that Lapidus just came from? Then when they ask where the helicopter is, Lapidus says "One click back this way" and leads them back the way they came??

Something fishy about that. Or could just be me.

Remember when I promised I wasn't going to get sucked in this week....?

xo
-chopkins

Silly sidebar question:

How is it that Smokey didn't get Keamy and all of his men? Even more curious is that some of them are injured, meaning that it did get some, but didn't go completely Ecko on them.

Is there a range or timelimit on Smokey once he's summoned to do a deed?

@ chopkins 82

... and I would think the Sayid "Pimp-tastic" LOL episode should be coming up shortly. The whole handling (at least at this point) of the mercs in last night's episode seems a little shakey.

-Smokey's half-as*ed butt kicking.
-Lapidus running himself into a coronary to help them?
-and good point, they did to a direct 180 degree turn back from the direction they came from.

@83, Mindflood

Welcome to the convo, Neal... ;)

xo
-chopkins

One point in this episode confirmed my extreme dislike of the "Eggtown" episode wherein the facts and circumstances around Kate's trial were unbelievably wrong. If Kate was on trial for murder and in custody, Aaron would have been in family services foster care. But he was not. The only wild assumption is that Aaron stayed at Kate's home because there was a claimed biological father maintaining custody of his son. This episode shows that after the trial, Jack moves in with Kate which infers that there was no "Mr. Kate" pretending to be Aaron's father to move out.
It still puts the whole post-island Kate story line in the unbelievable column.

Re: The smoke detector - It was beeping as if the battery was dead, not as if it was going off because of smoke. If it was going because of smoke, that is one mellow smoke detector.

The theory that the smoke detector was going off do to Smokey being Christian doesn't really make much sense.

sorry one of the worst reviews in a while- especially after last week. Blew past all the details of Hurley in psycho ward. Ignored the Lapidus exhange which had some telling moments.
Ignored the better part of the trek to get the gear for Jack... bad mac bad mac!

Um...Mac apologized in advance and let us know the review would be more brief than usual. I thought he hit the most major points and did a great job...even in brevity.

I think yer gonna get pounded for your comments...even though you're certainly entitled to them.

...and in cases like that it's common knowledge in this blog that we're supposed to fill in the blanks for him with our comments... Mac is actually counting on that.

In regards to the missing scar. Sayid also was missing a scar in the flashforward with Ben.

If Sayid steals the helicopter, I guess he could fly it, and the other Oceanic 6 get on board, and they fly off without knowing they need to take a cetain heading, they could wind up in their future BEFORE they recieved the scars. Aaron wouldn't count as he was born on the island. So they would be on the island in island time and in the real world in real world time AT THE SAME TIME but minus scars they received later in island time. Like the doc being dead on the shore and alive on the ship. Maybe why that's what is bothering them, the feeling of being out of time and place and Hurley is more suseptible than the others.

→ 88. Posted by: pezme

-89 and 90 Joe Pike
Right on, Joe. How can anyone criticize Mac for anything? It's not like we're paying him to do this.

Mac rules. Period.

@88 pezme...

I think a half-assed smokey beat down might be in order, pez....

Oh my God, don't I have work to be doing?? Instead of "blasting" someone Ive never met, and probably never will meet, on this blog?

@91 berkyo--
Intriguing bit about Sayid thinking hes helping everyone out and saving the day, but really does more harm than good by flying off on the wrong heading. But isn't Sayid too much of a pimp to do somethign so foolhardy???

xo
-chopkins

@pezme: One of the lovely things about this format is that if I miss something -- either intentionally or unintentionally -- the comments mechanism acts as an editor, a gap-filler and an equalizer.

Moreover, I long ago came to the conclusion that people visit this blog because of the sum total of the experience -- comments, review, conversation, theories, etc. My review is, at best, a glorified comment with fancy formatting.

So, I encourage you to share your observations from the institution scene, the Lapidus scene and anything else that popped onto your radar. All thoughts and theories are welcome!

65. Posted by: IdMonster

Thanks for the photo.

Please disregard my earlier ramblings on why the scar is not there. Oh well.

@ 54 welh & clementine 19: Yep, that makes it the 2007 series - though much less of a bludgeon, and less worthy of Jack's "A-Rod" remark. I looked at the article closely, and the only factual error I found was a mention of the Yankees sweep in Aug 2006 as being three games, when it was actually five games.

Here's the text of the article :
By GREGG BILSON
STAFF WRITER
The sweep was more emphatic last August, when the Yankees rampaged into Fenway Park and won three games to bury the Boston Red Sox. The best the Yankees could do this time was to win three at Yankee Stadium and chisel a chunk from Boston's sizable lead in the American League East.
Suzy Allman for The New York Times Robinson Canó hit two home runs as the Yankees completed a three-game sweep of the Red Sox with a 5-0 victory. The Yankees have cut Boston's division lead to five games.
They have done that now, finishing off the Red Sox, 5-0, yesterday behind Chien-Ming Wang, who carried a no-hitter through the seventh inning. The Red Sox are not spiraling, not with a five game lead, but the Yankees are rolling again. "It was good, because as a team, we're behind," said Robinson Canó, who smashed two opposite-field home runs against Curt Schilling. "We need to start winning some games if we want to make the playoffs. We're a half-game up for the wild card, but we're not worried about the wild card. We're just trying to win games."
The Yankees increased that lead over Seattle to a full game last night when the Mariners lost to the Indians, 6-5.
The Mariners come to the Bronx on Monday for a series that could have some impact on the Yankees' playoff chances... (the rest is blurred)

Great brevitious review, Mac. You just keep hitting the high points and we'll keep dissembling and arguing over the littluns.

I like Kate in her panties as much if not more than most, but at some point it seemed a tad gratuitous. I can't believe I just wrote that.

But I was looking for a little more substance in last night's ep. There's so many more juicier stories in which to delve that I was a little disappointed they spent so much time on Kate's panties. Well, not really, but...

And I know there had to be some kind of juxtaposition in the Jack stories (well becoming ill in one and ill becoming well in the other), but I just didn't get the relevance.

I think the more telling aspect of the thing was why does Jack get sick at all?The island heals those who are in communion with it. And if Jack isn't truly in communion with the island, why would he then be so desperate to return to it? Am I missing something here?

As has been discussed, it must somehow become known that Jack is blood-relative to Aaron otherwise there's no way Aaron would be left in Kate's care. And if Jack and Kate are married (maybe separated?) at the time of her trial that might explain why she has custody. And if Jack knows that Dr. Daddy is the baby-daddy that might explain his reluctance to become emotionally attached.

And as for Smnoky's not-slow and not-fast beatdown? Maybe Keamy & Co. have some kind of protective charm necklace like a crucifix or garlic or kitty litter...or a crucifix made of kitty litter...

Anyone notice the uncanny parallel between evil Ben smirk when Sayid "fell"in with his plans and Charlotte's smirk when Sun made his deal with her? Creepy!!!

Also, favorite exchange as Kate and Jack walk up the beach:
Jack says "In case anything should happen"
Kate interrupts "it can't"
Jack says "that's settled then"!!!!

Great to see Rose and Bernard together again

@ 97 ransomjackson

"And as for Smnoky's not-slow and not-fast beatdown? Maybe Keamy & Co. have some kind of protective charm necklace like a crucifix or garlic or kitty litter...or a crucifix made of kitty litter..."

hahahaha, awesome. And perhaps true. Honestly, if Widmore knows as much about the island as we're led to believe, he must know all about Smokey, and so must have given his guys at least a heads up, right? Maybe there IS some way to beat the beast...

Seriously, I do have work to do...

xo
-chopkins

@5 shikotee said:

>I did find it funny that just before Jack sees the image of his father, the smoke detector is activated. Perhaps Smokie really is behind the apparitions on and off the island?

Except that wasn't the sound of a smoke detector going off (detecting smoke). That was the sound of a smoke detector with a low battery. Maybe Smokey is bundled electromagnetic energy and drains nearby battery operated devices?

@79 lovelost observed:

>So why are Hurley and Jack so tortured? Of course, there's still a lot to come, but they seem to be the only ones (so far) with visions. I'm going somewhere with this, but can't seem to pull it together.

Don't forget that Michael saw Libby - twice. I'm guessing Kate and Sayid and Sun will have their demons, too. Hope Aaron is spared.

@97 ransomjackson bemoaned:

>But I was looking for a little more substance in last night's ep. There's so many more juicier stories in which to delve that I was a little disappointed they spent so much time on Kate's panties. Well, not really, but...

And where is former poster KatesPanties just when we need him/her?

There has been no mention about the story that Jack was reading to a sleeping Aaron in the beginning of the episode. Believe it was Alice in Wonderland. (Not a stranger to reoccuring theme...) May not be a direct quote, but this is what I have:

"...Alice took up the fan and as the hall was very hot she kept fanning herself all the time she went on talking...Dear, dear how queer everything is today and yesterday, things went on just as usual. I wonder if I have been changed in the night. Let me think was I the same when I got up this morning? Where if I am not the same...the next quetion is...who in the world am I? Ahh...that's the great puzzle."

I think Jack reading that had definitely more meaning than just a sweet bedtime story.

Jack: "Will you marry me?"

Kate: "Taco night?!? Taco Night??! I don't do taco night Jack!"

@103 boodle:

Is your first name "Kittenca"?

Very cogent comments, and in line with somme long time thinking I've had and will be discussing in my long-time coming review of "The Invention of Morel" over in the random topics area.

Sawyer nickname HOF: Donger (Miles)

→ 101. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Re: Michael and his sightings. Geez, I totally forgot about Michael. I was counting Sayid in the 06.

I also must get back to work. Thanks for any clarification. My head hurts.

@CC: Did he actually call him Donger? If so, that goes straight to No. 1 Nickname as far as I'm concerned.

95. Posted by: berkyo

Who's to say the photo wasn't doctored?

Can't believe everything you see or think you see:)

sure sounded like it, and i couldn't think of anything else that would have sounded like "Donger".

Automobiiillleee???

→ 87. The theory that the smoke detector was going off do (due) to Smokey being Christian doesn't really make much sense.
(Just guessing, but I think that sequence qualified as a subtle joke by the writers, not a theory, unless of course the anomaly/apparition we recognize as Christian is really an Electro-Magnetic event that drains back-up 9 volt batteries in smoke detectors... that's my unified theory+joke).

→ 59.
favorite line... Juliet: "... or shaving a man's stomach?"
(I agree. No telling what Juliet and Goodwin were into... or... ewww! Her and Ben after that).

→ 61.
Sawyer had quite a connection with Aaron; his voice would immediately stop Aaron from crying.
(Sure didn't work this episode. The little guy was bawling up a storm at the end).

→ ##. re: Kate custody of Aaron.
As far as Kate passing as the bio-mom of Aaron, when she got on 815 as a very pregnant prisoner, you'd think US Marshall Ed Mars would have passed that on to his office. "Yeah, I've got Austen in custody and she's been real busy (8 months pregnant). Oceanic would have noted that too, discouraging her from flying - which they should have done for Claire. We keep trying to apply US laws to Aarons custody case, maybe Kate made an interim stop on the way back to the states and adopted under much less restrictive laws. Or Ben helped... he seems pretty good when it comes to fake/false/forged documents.

→ Me: Anyone notice the beer that Jack was going thru last night. Looks like "Anchor Steam" to me, one of my favorites... wonder if that is for the 'freighter' folks.

Maybe we're all way past jaded on the marketing claims of the past week's promo's, but I don't see anyone commenting on the preview voiceover that said, "The Island claims one of its own."

I kept waiting for someone to die, but no one did. The only thing that fits is Dr.Daddy taking Claire away. She being Non-O6, must belong to the island. And last night, she got claimed as such.

One problem: if Aaron is so important to the island mythology, (I suppose partly because he's the first child ever born there?) then why did Christian Shepherd not take Aaron, too?

Maybe Jacob/Dr.Daddy don't want the boy until he's grown, like Obi-wan during his hermit years? ;)

Any other guesses on what the voiceover might mean?

Cecil # 102

That is exactly what/who I was thinking of in the midst of my bemoaning...

Boodle # 103

Re. Jack's reading Alice In Wonderland...I seem to have some recollection of one of the hatches being called something along the lines of The Looking Glass...hmmm...Charlie getting blowed up...Des's visions of Claire and Turnip-head getting on the helo...curiouser and curiouser...

I thought he said "Donner" (as in the Donner Party)

@Bill: I've heard the producers complain about the overblown marketing on a number of occasions (most recently during the Oceanic Six "reveal"), so I tend to ignore that booming voice. I seem to remember last season -- somewhere around the low-point "Stranger in a Strange Land" episode -- a similar voiceover proclamation that turned out to be complete crap.

Of course, nothing compares the insane "24" voiceover: "Next week, Jack Bauer DIES! ... (inside ... when Kim cries about her Daddy issues) ... BWAHAHAHAHAH!"

Lame-o.

@CC: A friend of mine actually ran into the original Donger once. He didn't know the guy's real name, but he was *sure* it was the Donger, all grown up.

@ Mac - yeah, I totally agree, so I wouldn't push it really far. But if we can't come up with some other weak justification for their claim (a la your Bauer dying inside example)...

then maaaybe the promo department actually gave us a clue for once.

Like I said, any other ideas?

@115 mac:

>@CC: A friend of mine actually ran into the original Donger once. He didn't know the guy's real name, but he was *sure* it was the Donger, all grown up.

Somebody let me in on the joke. Who's "Donger"?

→ 112.
One problem: if Aaron is so important to the island mythology, I suppose partly because he's the first child ever born there?

(Seems to me Alexandra was born there too, shortly after arriving on the island, inside Danielle, who looked good last night. I think that is the cleanest we have seen her in 4 seasons - during a dirt nap).

@Bill: Well, if we play around with this "claim" concept, I suppose the following apply (tongue in cheek on some of these, of course -- all in homage to the marketing dept.):

* Dr. Daddy -- acting as island proxy -- "claims" Claire.

* Dr. Daddy "claims" Jack's sanity. I don't think Jack qualifies as one of the island's own, though.

* Karl is officially dead and he seemed to be a true Other, so maybe his rotting corpse serves as a formal island claim.

I dunno. That's the best I can offer.

@112 Bill wondered:

>...I don't see anyone commenting on the preview voiceover that said, "The Island claims one of its own."

>I kept waiting for someone to die, but no one did. ...

>Any other guesses on what the voiceover might mean?

Maybe a reference to Rousseau - being reclaimed in the most literal way?

Or Karl?

@Cecil: "Donger" is short for Long Duk Dong, a beloved character from "Sixteen Candles."

(Of course, the name and portrayal now come across as VERY un-PC, but back in the day, the Donger ruled!)

Cecil Rose/117

The most famous (maybe only) "Donger" I know of is the Chinese exchange student in the movie Sixteen Candles w/ Molly Ringwald.

@MorBid0 - I don't remember if we learned Alex's birth date, pre or post island, but I thought we'd been assuming she was about 16 years old and the taped message Sayid calculated to be 16 years old as well. Can anyone verify these details?

Speaking of Sayid's calculations, how might Danny's "time is relative" statement affect the true age of that message?

And how can Alex have been taken as an infant if the purge was only 12 years ago? Was she taken by Ben but kept with Richard & the hostiles for awhile?

I know one thing: this is still the best TV show ever made. I really need to get back to my project today... (!)

Re Idmonster
"Who's to say the photo wasn't doctored?

Can't believe everything you see or think you see:)"

Isn't there anyone I can trust????;0

@ 107 lovelost

I ALWAYS forget about Michael/Walt. Not sure if thats intended on the producers' part or not, or if the two of them are just such forgettable (but somehow important) characters. I've always thought Michael sucked as a character.

I've also always been curious about how Michael/Walt aren't part of the 06. Certainly Walt's grandma knows something's up, but aint talking. And are we really supposed to believe that Michael was SUCH a loner/jerk/bad smelling man that he didnt have a SINGLE buddy notice when he got home. Or that nobody would notice? Man, it sucks to be him.

Just odd. I hate the Michael/Walt story arch... and I hate that its obviously so important to whatever the eff is going on on the freighter and the island...

This has probably already been discussed in great detail, but you got me thinkin' lovelost...

xo
-chopkins

@Mac very cool, that guy must have gotten tired of being called Dong about 10 years ago HA HA

@Cecil Rose
the movie Sixteen Candles had the 80's stereo-typical asian who's name was Long duk Dong, the "Donger".
unless you know the movie, the quotes don't sound funny at all though.

Classic lines from the movie like when he lost grandpa's car (ie. automobile) "Dong where is my auot-mobile? " "automooobbbiiile?"

what else "oooh sexy girlfireind" "the donger need food" "what's a happenin hot stuff"

the whole she's not here becasue she got married routine was classic too.

@ Cecil Rose #71 - Nope, I'm not taking the day off. Having a slower than normal day at work and I FINALLY snuck around the blocking software the work nazi's installed.

It's good to be back... At least when I'm at work my posts are alcohol free! I, like meg, enjoy a drink or two or twelve after work and posting here while under the influence (shall we say PUI) can be rather embarassing but FUN!

Back on subject:
I am very curious why smokie didn't kill those guys as well. Of course, it took him a while one-on-one to beat the ba-jesus out of Eko. Hand of God???

@124 berkyo asked:

>Isn't there anyone I can trust?

Trust mac.

→ 123. Alex Birth?
(According to Danielle, she was 7 months preg, when her husband and expediton arrived).

When did we learn that "The Purge" was exactly 12 years ago? I thought the SWAG was sometime in the early '90s.

@Cecil Rose - Evidently we are too old to have seen 16 Candles in its prime. (Oh, no, 16 again! Does that mean we MUST watch it?)
Other movies I am too old to appreciate:
Ferris Bueller's Day Off
anything with Austin Powers
Dumber & Dumberer
Plenty more, but I don't keep track. None of them are in the same league as Blazing Saddles, are they, Cecil?

@hurling/130

Blazing Saddles 1974
Sixteen Candles 1984

Didn't Horace Goodspeed die in the purge? Preview has him say "dead for 12 years."

curious...

In the newspaper clipping (Yankees bludgeon Red Sox) pic at getlostpodcast .com it shows a box score right below the article that shows Angels 8, Astros 4. Appears to have Willits and Figgins as the first two hitters for the Angels.

On June 20, 2007 the Angels won 8-4 over the Astros. This was the only Astros-Angels series during 2007 since it is an interleague game.

The Angels didn't have a game on Aug 30, 2007.

The Angels and Astros did not play each other during the 2006 season.

So I'm not sure how "canon" the Aug 30, 2007 date is.

@127 BunnyLover wiggled her cute nose and said:

>At least when I'm at work my posts are alcohol free! I, like meg, enjoy a drink or two or twelve after work and posting here while under the influence (shall we say PUI) can be rather embarassing but FUN!

Careful. Disney may write you out of the blog.

GRAA, Mac!

*****Preview spoiler*****

When Goodspeed says that he's been dead for the past 12 years, maybe he didn't mean literally. Maybe he meant that he was *presumed* dead for the past 12 years. Perhaps that opens it up for others from the purge to still be alive? I know Ben saw him "dead" but maybe he was just mostly dead and the island Miracle Maxed him.

*****End preview spoiler*****

I think Claire was out of it and followed Daddy, still carrying Aaron, into the jungle. That's the only way I can figure she would go with 15 minute Dad and away from her peeps. The island claimed her at that time, so Aaron was on his own. Just a thought, but what if Jacob was trying to force Aaron to stay on the island by trapping his mother there, not realizing that Jack would take him off? Thus, the island targets Jack in an effort to bring Aaron back and quickly drives him bonkers to that end. Hurley knows they shouldn't have left and gives Jack that Charlie-o-gram.

@129 MorBid0 pondered:

>When did we learn that "The Purge" was exactly 12 years ago? I thought the SWAG was sometime in the early '90s.

Horace said in the previews he died 12 years ago (2004-12=1992).

Lostpedia's Timeline places the Purge on December 19, 1992.

Which makes one wonder -

Was Alex only 12 years old at her demise? (Hardly)

Was Alex snatched by the Others back when they were "The Hostiles" and back before Ben had joined them? (In which case he 'adopted' a little girl, not an infant.)

Have we caught the writers in an error?
(Maybe).

Or maybe Horace and Lostpedia are both wrong? (Maybe)

I thought Horace Goodspeed was rotting away in a sanitarium courtesy of John Coffey from The Green Mile. BTW - Another Stephen King connection.

Otherwise, I really don't think you can trust whatever they say in the previews.

Criminy...they didn't say anything about Kate doing half the show in her bloomers and yet...there she - and they - were.

Although Smokey beat the snot out of the death squad, he sure didn't ekoize them. Maybe Smokey has to scan them first, then submit the scan for extermination approval. Maybe if someone is on that "List" we keep hearing about, they can't be killed by Smokey or anyone else. Maybe that is one of The Rules.
_________

Cecil Rose #101...you mentioned Sayid might see his demons down the line. I was re-watching Season 1 the past couple of days and noticed the writers made a point of bringing to our attention that Sayid claiming the body of his "terrorist" friend resulted in the one day delay in his departure from Sydney which put Sayid on flight 815.

But since last night I realize maybe what they were really bringing to our attention is that Sayid's claiming of that body prevented it's cremation and thus allows for the dead almost terrorist to visit Sayid at a later date.

AND...Although most of the 815 passengers were cremated in the plane, several were not, and we have seen Libby a couple of times.

Also remember The Others funeral service where they did a viking thing and set the raft carrying the body afire...Cremated. And after the Purge? All those bodies in an open grave which is a hell of a health risk but still no cremation?

All I'm saying is....I don' know what the hell is going on.

→ 136.
Oh, okay. Seems like using info from next weeks' preview to assist deductive reasoning for this episode, might fall under Rule #1 here and get the ***Spoiler*** warning... but who am I to say?

@ 133/ Sock...Puppet...Guy

The newspaper had to be either
a) a time clue referring to August 30, 2007
or
b) a concept clue showing that story could not
be true based on the surrounding, contradictory evidence (the Astros box score from earlier in the summer).

@ransomjackson #137:
>Criminy...they didn't say anything about Kate doing half the show in her bloomers and yet...

Ummmm - I don't see an issue - great wardrobe choice - Emmy nominee for sure for costume design ! ! !

Is anybody here so concerned about being spoiled they don't watch "next Week on Lost" at the end of the show?

For me, it gives me a week of speculation akin to the old Kremlin-watchers who'd try to determine who was who in the Soviet heirarchy *this* year by where they stood on the balcony during the May Day parade.

Which reminds me of an old "Hallmark Hall of Fame" drama about one such Politburo spparatchik who, stealing a glance at the place cards in advance, was stunned to find out he was no longer his customeary #3 position behind the premier. Fearing he was about to be purged, he tried to defect and denounced the government, only to be caught before he could get away.

As he was led away to prison and presumably execution, we see two party functionaries puzzling over how the former pol suddenly went crazy and threw away his career and his life "just as he was being moved up to number 2".

Moral: Make sure you have all the facts before reaching a conclusion.

Cecil Rose #136 I was just thinking the same thing! If the info on the date of the Purge is correct, Alex was 4 years old when it happened. Was she kidnapped by Dharma and Ben was raising her all that time which would explain how Widmore knows she is Ben's daughter. Or was she kidnapped by The Hostiles and adopted by Ben after The Purge when Ben was able to join up with them? In which case two things: #1. How did Widmore know about Alex? #2. How did Rousseau survive Ze Purge.

I just realized that Keamy could have sat phoned Widmore and said, "Good news, Ben has a daughter. We can use her for leverage."

Observations:
1. In Jack's office, why would a spinal surgeon have two sets of skull/head x-rays/CAT scans? I found that extremely out of place. Was this a cue that Jack is a head case?
2. In Kate's house, why is the Santa Rosa day room artwork doing on her refrigerator? Jack did not want Kate around Hurley because he was "nuts."
3. Bernard used the episode's title to Jack as a metaphor for a happy "dream" state, something that was forced upon him.
4. Hurley said to Jack that his perfect off-island was heaven. Hurley also said he was dead. They all were dead (then presumably in the same realm of heaven).

Hey guys, my first comments of the season. I have still been reading off and on just unable to post like I used to. Your comments re: Smokey have drawn me back in. D*** YOU ALL! LOL.
Good to be back.

I guess this is now at least the second instance of a dead somebody showing up off island, in the 'supposed' reality. So how do we suppose that Smokey is 'dead Charlie' or 'dead Dr Shepard'? How would Smokey be able to get off and back onto the island (assuming he has gone back -- funky timeline, you know)?

This is where I have always had issue with most of the Smokey theories. I understand most of the Smokey = dead people mirages comes from the Eko conversation with his brother and subsequent beat down. Do we truly know that Smokey becomes these people? Have Carlton and Damon more or less confirmed this in anyway?

I am aware of vacc's hypothesis of Smokey = Jinn, and while this has some merit, I am uncertain about the shape shifting attribute. Can someone cue me in why that seems to be rather well accepted?

MorBidO:

I figure if it has been broadcast nationwide on ABC, it's not a spoiler.

Smokey = DJINN (not Jin)

http://community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4290090682/m/5370043319/p/1

@ 138/ undaunted

"Maybe if someone is on that "List" we keep hearing about, they can't be killed by Smokey or anyone else. Maybe that is one of The Rules."

The only people I know who make people Lists are
a) Santa Claus, naughty and nice;
b) St. Peter
c) Ben Linus.

Admittedly I did it up at the front of these postings - I utilized information in the preview for an assumption. We all are now doing it, but remember . . .

In last week’s preview, it showed Sawyer, Miles, Claire and Aaron hiding in the bushes from the bad guys and suddenly a baby cried and the head guy turned suddenly, menacingly toward the bushes...

HOWEVER, in the show, THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN. The baby wail we finally heard was at the end of the episode when Sawyer finds Aaron abandoned on the stump.

Since the days of the SATURDAY AFTERNOON MOVIE SERIAL, film editors have been making chumps out of us . . week after week . . .

So maybe we, including me, shouldn’t put all our apples (or assumptions) on what we hear in the previews . . .

you think.

@145 BELost queried:

>Do we truly know that Smokey becomes these people? Have Carlton and Damon more or less confirmed this in anyway?

Only indirectly. When fans were questioning why they hadn't seen Smokey for a long stretch (S-2, iirc), C&L said, in a podast, 'Maybe we have seen him and just didn't realize it.'

I think there've been a few other indirect references as well. 'Yemi' saying "What makes you think I'm your brother?" followed quickly 'his' dissappearance and a Smokey beatdown of Eko seemed to imply it as well.

Another observation: it may just be format writing, coincidence or cubical corporate thinking, but have you noticed the growing pattern that characters are replacing other characters in their original roles?

Examples:
Locke replaced Ben as Barracks leader;
Juliet has replaced Jack as the beach camp doctor;
Jin has replaced Sawyer as the beach sargeant of arms;
Charlotte has replaced Juliet as the spy in the camp;
Aaron has replaced Walt as the camp child; and
Sawyer having replaced Michael when you screamed "CLAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRE!" (That was annoying).

Okay, i've spent the last few hours catching up on everything, and first of all i have to say, it seems way too many people are ignoring rule #6. it was so frustrating reading thru posts and have the same questions come up time after time. so please, READ before you WRITE!

Now, onto the episode...
@ MorBid0 post #111

"Sawyer had quite a connection with Aaron; his voice would immediately stop Aaron from crying. 
(Sure didn't work this episode. The little guy was bawling up a storm at the end)."

I don't think Sawyer yelling classifies as his usual soothing voice. There definitely seems to be a connection between them.

@ Cecil Rose - post #136

As far as we can tell, Alex was approx. 16. We were told that Rousseau took Alex up to the radio station when she made her message, and Alex was taken shortly after that.

If the "Purge" took place in '92, that means Alex would have been approx. 4 years old - so either she was stickin around with the 'hostiles' until the purge, or it was something else that we don't know about yet...

Can't remember who posted it, but someone asked how Danielle survived the Purge - well, it wasn't a matter of surviving it, because she was never at the Dharma community. She's been on her own since the beginning.

Kinda sad to know that Rousseau has been there for 16 years and never managed to find any hatches, find the dharma camp, or discover ANYTHING about them, and here our Oceanic crew comes and figures it all our in a couple months!

All in all, i didn't care much for this episode. Sorry to all who loved seeing kate in her dainties so much, but seriously, after last weeks episode; all the excitement and intensity...jack needs an appendectomy. neat. i just want to follow Locke and Ben around! Take me to Jacob!!!

OH, also - re: Jack and Aaron...
i think it would be hard for Jack to take care of Aaron if he knew that Claire was his daddy's baby too. Maybe Aaron would serve as a reminder of his father's infidelity? That would go along with the assumption that Jack somehow discovers that they're siblings...

Welh #148:

Yep. But isn't Ben's list actually Jacob's list?

I think I have a young 'ilovejohnlockexx' on my hands.

My youngest (13) just got home from school and showed me a poem (1 of 3) she got an A on today from her English teacher. She says her teacher likes and watches Lost too.

(The Jacob plotline has always interested her the most and that is what she usually wants to talk about after the show aires. She is worried lately about the trek to find the cabin.)

- Locke's Prayer -
Now I lay me down to sleep,
With Ben Linus at my feet,
Guard me Jacob through the night,
And keep Mister Smokie out of sight.

- - - -
hmmm - what to do?, what to do? at least the other two poems weren't Lost related.

Point numero Uno , has anyone thought about the fact that Juliet must know Jack is Claire's half brother. They knew everything about them, had 'detailed files' and she should know. Maybe she hasn't had the opportunity to tell Jack, especially cuz Claire decided to join the Locke camp.

Numero Dos . Seems like the smoke takes the form of that person's worst/best/hopeful figure. Maybe the smoke has no control over what it is seen as.

Three, I think they were all lost BEFORE they got to the island, they were found once they arrived, and were not meant to leave.

Best Line - Right in the beginning when Sawyer called the Ghost Whisperer guy "Donger". Come on, Sixteen Candles..."No more yanky my wanky...the Donger need food!"

I'm gone 18 hours and I have 155 posts to catch up on... (It's currently exactly 6:00 PM)... SAT 2's tomorrow morning. Let's see how far I get.

So let me start by saying, once again, I REALLY HATE the way Jack breathes... and this episode was FULL OF IT!

I was waiting for Jack to say that Hurley's crazy the whole episode... because he didn't say it to Hurley at the hospital, probably because that would totally reverse his treatment -- if he got any -- and just make him even more crazy. You can tell he was trying to avoid it.

Who did Jack say that to before? Maybe it was Hurley... I don't know, but he did that weird breathing thing he does and he goes, "you're crazy". Wow, that just sounded so obvious. Maybe it was Ben?

Anyway, Aaron has a REALLY BIG HEAD. And so does baby Aaron on the island.

By the way -- Sorry ealgumby... Your whole explination about how Aaron could be Kate's son just went down the drain... but to JoePike -- I still don't think he's one of the Oceanic 6, or at least he shouldn't be. Saying that I don't think he IS seems stupid right about now.

... I still owe you that chocolate chip cookie.

Since I didn't read anyone's posts yet, I'm thinking that the whole, "you're not supposed to raise him, Jack" thing from Mr. Charlie Pace may have been for the same reason that the psychic told Claire that she wasn't supposed to let anyone else raise him.

Sorry if I'm repeating anything anyone is saying.

So wait -- All this time it seemd that Smokey was the one taking the form of people after getting into their heads. (Am I wrong?) If so, then unless Jack and Hugo are just "seeing things", then did Smokey follow them? I doubt it.

So what's up with Bernard? Why does he know everything about everything?!?! I thought he was just a Dentist, not Rambo! Apparently he is... although I have no idea who Rambo is.

Somehow he knows Morse Code and knows a lot about surgeries... and appendectamies (I don't know how to spell it).

Bernard has been very interesting lately... I think it started with the whole "I guess we're the good guys, huh..." in his talk to Jin. I have a feeling he's going to have a great deal of importance in the future... and for some reason he and Rose don't leave. -- I thought she changed her mind about not wanting