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Lost Reviews and News

Key Points from "Because You Left" and "The Lie"

Season 5, Episodes 1 & 2
Episode Air Date: 01/21/09

Point 1
Locke

Sawyer

Juliet

Faraday

Miles

Charlotte
One administrative note before we dive into season five: As you'll see, this review differs considerably from my past efforts. Limits on time and energy have forced me to change my approach. I've also concluded that detailed reviews don't hold much value when every "Lost" episode is viewable anywhere, anytime and on any device. I'm now writing these reviews as a collection of "things I noticed." The format won't be exhaustive (or exhausting ... for me), but I do hope they'll still add something to the ensuing conversation. With that out of the way, let's get to the good stuff!

We'll begin with the biggest question, which also happens to be the most confusing: What's going on with the island?

According to Daniel Faraday's rules for time travel and island relocation, the "Lost" locale is dislodged from its normal time slot and is now hopping merrily across the space-time continuum (similar to pre-ABC "Scrubs" leaping wily-nily around NBC's programming schedule). This brings up a series of issues, some of which are addressed in these two episodes, but many others that dangle in the winds of time:

Issue No. 1: The island itself appears to physically jump (after all, we saw it disappear). This differs (maybe?) from the mental jumps Desmond enjoyed in "The Constant."

Issue No. 2: Certain people jump. The current roster includes: Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Bernard, Rose, Faraday, Miles, Charlotte and an assortment of socks who skitter through the background.

Issue No. 3: Certain people don't jump. Richard Alpert is the only confirmed non-jumper to date. This is undoubtedly due to his time-resistant eyeliner.

Issue No. 4: It's not clear if the jumpers (Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, etc.) and the island itself jump in parallel. I'm probably confusing things, but I suppose it's possible that Locke and the other jumpers "ride" the island across time. It's also possible that the island and the jumpers go in different directions. Now pardon me while I wipe the trickle of blood oozing from my nostril.

Issue No. 5: Faraday reveals the "no paradox" rule, which is a significant departure from most time travel stories. In the "Lost" universe, a character may travel forward or backwards along the string of time, but he/she cannot change events. Time simply won't allow it. (Put another way, it's the anti-"Journeyman"). This is a slick storytelling device because it removes all those tedious "multiple timeline" tricks from the equation.

Issue No. 6: The "no paradox" rule does not apply to Desmond because he's: A) Scottish and B) A Very Special Dude. Somehow, Desmond's exposure to the hatch's electromagnetism and/or his experiences during "The Constant" have given him the ability to tweak the timeline. As such, Faraday is able to send a message to off-island Des by talking to island-based Des. And it works. Desmond has a vivid dream, but that dream is actually a memory, and that memory compels Desmond to pull up anchor on the H.M.S. Bliss (the boat/life he's sharing with Penny) and begin a long journey to Oxford University.

Issue No. 7: Items in the possession of jumpers during the first jump remain with the jumpers through subsequent jumps. This explains the consistent appearance of Faraday's journal and the zodiac boat. It also explains the disappearance and reappearance of particular landmarks (the hatch), locations (the beach camp) and supplies (all the Dharma grub).

Issue No. 8: The island jumps at least three times over the course of these two episodes (that's a guess -- I didn't count the purple flashes). I have no idea where the island is currently situated: The past? The future? All guesses and theories are welcome.

Issue No. 9: According to Richard Alpert, the island will stop hopping when the Oceanic Six return. This reunion will be catalyzed by Locke's death.

Point 2
Jack

Ben

Kate

Hurley

Sayid

Sun
In a mirror image of last season, we know that the Oceanic Six will likely reassemble for a return trip to the island (this is pure conjecture, but that seems like a logical trajectory). Throughout these first two episodes, the Six become dislodged from their not-so-happy lives and begin the slow dance toward reunion.

The most notable developments include:

    Jack and Ben are working together ... kinda ... maybe. Jack certainly thinks they're working together, but Ben has enlisted outside help from off-island cohorts. Most interesting of all: Ben appears to be taking orders from Mrs. Hawking, the white-haired oracle from "Flashes Before Your Eyes."

    Mrs. Hawking -- who appears to be an actual person -- is holed up in the basement of a church, using computers and assorted equipment to pinpoint the island's current location. The good news is that she's found it. The bad: Ben only has 70 hours to wrangle the Oceanic Six back to the shores of "Lost Isle." If he fails, something very, very bad will occur (we're offered no clues as to what this might entail, but I bet it involves uninteresting stories about Jack's tattoos).

  • Once Jack returns to the island, he'll never be able to leave. Or something like that. This tidbit is delivered by Ben, and we should all know that "Ben" and "truth" are rarely in harmony.
  • After a promising start -- and some excellent ass-kicking from Sayid -- the Hurley-Sayid storyline lost steam and ran way too long. Sayid spends the better part of two episodes in tranquilizer-induced unconsciousness and Hurley feels real bad about lying. However, I'm 100 percent sure Hurley will regret telling his mother the truth about the Oceanic six. I fear for dear Mrs. Reyes.

  • Someone -- we don't know who -- believes Aaron is not Kate's biological son. I'm guessing Ben is the man behind the curtain on this one. Kate was spooked into fugitive mode, and her hyperactive flight mechanism will likely push her back toward the island.
  • Sun tells Charles Widmore she wants to see Benjamin Linus die in a pool of his own buggy juices. Sun is also deeply pissed at Jack.
Point 3
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "Why there's a dead Pakistani on my couch?" -- Hurley's mom.
  • Second Best Line: "Shut it, Ginger, or you're gettin' one too!" -- Sawyer, threatening Charlotte with a swift slap across the cheek.
  • Third Best Line: "Maybe if you eat more comfort food you wouldn't have to go around shooting people." -- Hurley to Sayid.
  • Anyone care to guess how many "socks" are left? Neil (aka "Frogurt") got his moment in the sun -- and a flaming arrow in the chest -- but after all the Other attacks and freighter explosions, how many background players remain?
  • Time travel tip: When an armed adversary is questioning your sudden appearance on his island (and his time zone), do not pull rank and anoint yourself "leader" of his tribe. Locke is lucky the Purple Haze kicked in before Ethan could pull the trigger.

  • The group of armed military types who grabbed Sawyer and Juliet seemed particularly keen on hacking off Juliet's hand. I wonder if Dr. Pierre Chang (aka Dr. Marvin Candle and other aliases) ran into the same group.
  • Speaking of Dr. Chang -- Where, exactly, does the opening scene from "Because You Left" fit in? Seeing as Faraday appears, I'm guessing the connective threads will be revealed down the road.

  • Dr. Chang's kid sleeps in until 8:15 a.m ... that is one lucky, lucky bastard.

  • This is neither here nor there, but I feel it warrants mention: The single greatest thing to happen to this show was the announcement of a definitive end date. It liberated the writers from the lame lowest-common-denominator storytelling that infects most television shows. Instead of broad-based entertainment that assumes the audience is inherently stupid, we're now treated to complicated, nuanced and intricate stories that require active involvement. In so many ways, this show is now a novel in TV form.
  • One administrative note: I'll be traveling for business next week, so the review will be handled by long-time Lost Blog regular Cecil Rose. Thanks to Cecil for stepping in!

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"Jughead" -- Locke unmasks the hack-happy band of attackers. Airs Wednesday, Jan. 28, 2009 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Posted by Mac Slocum on January 21, 2009 11:59 PM |




MIF.

#1. Posted by: Meg at January 22, 2009 12:21 AM

It is SO great to have you back Mac. There's nothing I look forward to more than reading your reviews after the episodes. Congrats on baby #2.

I'll have to go back and look, but was Dr. Chang's baby caucasion? Charlotte perhaps?

#2. Posted by: The Other Other at January 22, 2009 12:26 AM

One important rule that we also didn't find out: The Timecop Rule. If they somehow run into their past selves, can Sawyer slap himself for having that ridiculos haircut when they crashed? Or will he turn into an amorphis blob?

#3. Posted by: The Other Other at January 22, 2009 12:29 AM

I was so excited... until the flaming arrows appeared. Poor Frogurt.

#4. Posted by: Frogurt at January 22, 2009 12:29 AM

Other good line: Hurley's vision of Anna Lucia in which she tell Hurley that "Libby says Hi"

#5. Posted by: Zizzy at January 22, 2009 12:40 AM

key point you left out: Hurley foiled Ben's plan by turning himself into the cops.

And a side note, was it ever explained what group was sending out the flaming arrow attacks?

#6. Posted by: lostie at January 22, 2009 12:41 AM

also loved Sun's cattiness: she tells Kate she doesn't blame Kate for Jin's death and immediately asks "How's Jack?"

#7. Posted by: Zizzy at January 22, 2009 12:42 AM

I have never posted before, but have enjoyed reading this blog after i've watched every episode! Thanks for writing this so faithfully, mac!

Now that i've finally caught up to the Lost epidsodes, i can join the discussion as it is happening :)

@The Other Other, i also noticed that Dr. Chang's baby looked more Caucasian...hmmm.

I'm also super intrigued by Daniel Faraday's presence at the Orchid when they were drilling. So much to ponder!

Also, the shot of the O6 on the Searcher...was that a flash forward then? Because Hurley was there too...

#8. Posted by: anjou at January 22, 2009 12:58 AM

Re: #6 - lostie

Mac didn't actually "leave" anything out. If you read the top, he says:

"I've also concluded that detailed reviews don't hold much value when every "Lost" episode is viewable anywhere, anytime and on any device. I'm now writing these reviews as a collection of "things I noticed."

We can only assume for now that it was the people who captured Sawyer and Juliet who attacked the beach.

#9. Posted by: The Other Other at January 22, 2009 12:59 AM

A couple things, I think I spotted in the first 5 minutes though could have been purposely deceptive were what looked to be Ben mowing the lawn at the Barracks as Dr. Pierre Chang set off across the Quad to make the mornings video. Remember his dad was a workman and perhaps Ben inherited this line of work. Could account for Ben's hatred of everyone within Dharma. Also the construction worker felled from drilling in the Orchid station looked remarkably like Faraday. The long gaze he takes at what appears to be own body with the bloody nose seemed a deliberate move.

Plus a wild shot- Might the child who, as Mac notes, graciously let Dr. Chang sleep til 8:15 be Jin?

#10. Posted by: edgar at January 22, 2009 1:46 AM

Just playing Devil's Advocate here but....with the time bouncing and the island jumping back and forth, could it be possible that the dirty fellas that were gonna cut off Juliet's hand part of Rousseau's crew? The people that were all "killed" according to our French heroine? If so, they have a terrible fate ahead of them.
Just think about it for a second. I might be getting ahead of myself but hell, I don't care.

#11. Posted by: Somnambulist at January 22, 2009 2:15 AM

Occasional reader, first time poster.

I think the best line of the evening was not in these two shows, but in the season 1-4 recap that aired before. One of the producers said (paraphrasing) "the show has now moved into territory where we will be answering more questions than asking." Uhuh... that we saw... :)

#12. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 22, 2009 2:19 AM

How about Miles being Dr. Chang's baby???

#13. Posted by: Gail at January 22, 2009 3:38 AM

Locke-healer
Desmond-very special

Isn't that lady at the end, Faraday's mom? He had told Desmond to find his mom at Oxford and she's writing all those time travel equations to calculate the # of hours Ben has left. I'm guessing the apple doesn't fall far from the tree when it comes to time travel obsession.

#14. Posted by: lost808 at January 22, 2009 4:28 AM

#1 - The Lost writers really seem to be enjoying themselves. The dishwasher-death-machine set-up and Mrs. Hawking's basement-of-mysteries scenes were the best kind of awesome/ridiculous.

#2 - The arm-choppers at the end appeared to be wearing fatigues and carry what appeared to my untrained eye like rather old-fashioned rifles. How far back are we? And what sort of accents were those? I'm warming up to the idea offered above that these men are part of Rousseau's gang, but I'm kind of hoping that we've jumped back even further in time.

#3 - I love that the Asian=Asian rule applies here on The Lost Blog. "Dr. Chang's eyes look funny. His baby must be one of the other fellers on the show whose eyes looks peculiar!"

#15. Posted by: nancy reagan at January 22, 2009 4:33 AM

Gr8 Post Mac Daddy, I Wuv U! This season is getting really confusing, i am excited to get the show back, most of all ur posts, but they threw too much info for one night!

#16. Posted by: Jenny Talia at January 22, 2009 4:37 AM

The Black Attack is Back Jack!

#17. Posted by: Omar Adams at January 22, 2009 4:37 AM

Boy, what a night!! Yes, a little too much info to digest, but I think that the intent was to set the tone and theme for the season. Thanks Mac for your review...I too look forward to it.

I need to go back and re-watch after reading Mac's review and comments. I wonder if there is any significance to the times that the island is jumping? Is there a particular reason that Locke jumped back in time to witness Eko's brother's drug plane crashing...? Maybe the only significance is to jump back to possibly explain and answer some questions. (i.e. - arm choppers being Rousseau's crew...?) In all the past seasons, there has not been any flash backs to Rousseau's crew and their time on the island. I figure that it is going to take the rest of this season for the O-6 to get back to the island... Good thing is that it seems as if Lost will be airing at 9:00 (e.s.t) on Wednesdays instead of 10:00!

#18. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 6:59 AM

#1 Was Sun setting Kate up to get to Jack? Does she blame Jack for Jin's death because he wouldn't let Kate go back and get him?

#2 Going into the episode, I thought Ben was good, inspite of the bad things he've done. I wavered for a moment during the show. In the end, I still think he's on the side of good.

#3 The computers that Mrs. Hawkins were using, didn't they 'look' old?

#4 Still don't trust Juliet.

#5 Why didn't Richard and company move when our LOSTies moved?

#6 Was Locke around when Ethan filtrated the camp to take Claire? I would have thought he would have remembered Locke, since they've met in the past.

All in all, a good episode. I'm glad it's back. Let the obsession begin ...

#19. Posted by: Landa at January 22, 2009 7:13 AM

Here's a few things I thought about while I was attempting to sleep last night:

1. Locke is not actually dead. I believe this to be very true. Jack asked Ben when the last time he saw Locke, and I think Ben lied (which is nothing new). Could it be possible that Locke attempted to get the OA6 back by convincing them, and when that failed he decided to fake his own death? Maybe Ben shot/injected Locke with something similar to what Sayid was shot with? I'm sure Locke will come back when they get to the island one way or another (i.e. ghost), but I think his staged death was just a failed means of trying to get everyone together (save for Jack).

2. Why doesn't the island need Walt or Desmond? If it's anyone who leaves which causes bad things, shouldn't all these things have started when Charlotte left? If it's just the members of the plane crash, shouldn't they at least need Walt too? I think it's possible that Ben was telling Jack he could never come back just to see what Jack would say.

3. What did Faraday need to see when he went back for his notebook before talking to "PreDes"? Was he hoping Des would remember him from when he jumped back in time before? Was it to tell him that he's Faraday's constant? Was it to deliver a singing telegram that Faraday forgot the words to because there was a gun in his face?

4. The island clearly has to be jumping back and forth to "opposite island". How else can you explain the phenomenon of Rose being a total beeyotch (way beyond just bickering with Bernard), Sawyer getting so emotional to the point where he almost eeks out a tear, Frogert getting more than a sentence or two in, and Juliet (who is a DOCTOR, I might add) forgetting that no amount of sand will cure an arrow through the heart.

#20. Posted by: The Other Other at January 22, 2009 7:25 AM

I don't think Desmond has anything to do with a "no paradox" rule. I think you can create a paradox but Faraday lied to keep from creating a paradox. If Sawyer kept banging that hatch backdoor, Desmond would have eventually opened it for him as well.

#21. Posted by: Ronny B at January 22, 2009 7:31 AM

Did anyone call Jack's number? Kate had it up on her phone screen for a long time - wish I wrote it down. I wonder who would pick up!!!
I loved the flaming arrow through the heart moment.
Ana Lucia is going to be so PO'd that Hurley did not listen to advice about not getting arrested.
Would love to see some Rousseau again as I guess she is still alive and holed up in some well camouflaged tree house on the island.
Put a fedora on Locke and he will look a lot like Indiana Jones!!!
I think Charlotte is done for.
So glad the show is back...way to go mac

#22. Posted by: weepict at January 22, 2009 7:47 AM

I had just arrived back in town in time for the show last night and, of course, so many more questions again . . . Of course, it is a “set the scene” episode cycle, so I just sat and enjoyed it.

On the guys in uniform issue, I remember that the tailies found US ARMY stuff, specifically a knife I think, in their little hiding place in the second year. (?) (Of course, what’s with the Australian accent?)

Admittedly, with all this time jumping on the island, this is going to be a great season of “Who’s your Daddy Now” in respect to “enemies” - others, Dharmas, soldier boys, ancient pirates, or ghosts-who-exist-in-spite-of-DWI-arrests . . . .

Wait! Jin MUST be alive! . . .

Glad to have the show and Mac back. Loved the “sleeping baby” comment. You have NOOOOOO idea . . .

#23. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 8:04 AM

The late-sleeping baby was still pretty young, the mom was alive, and there seemed to be enough infrastructure to suggest that the doctor had been there for at least several months.
It's possible, then, that the baby was both conceived and born on the island.
The mom is still alive - whatever is happening to the moms/babies is maybe still to come.

#24. Posted by: Helen at January 22, 2009 8:22 AM

I thought it was cool how the opening scene had the needle skipping on the record... And then, later on, Daniel explains the Losties time travel as a skipping record on a turntable.
Welcome back everybody!

#25. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at January 22, 2009 8:36 AM

Could Daniels mom be the Oracle? The one who Desmond must find at Oxford?

#26. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at January 22, 2009 8:40 AM

Could it be that this idea of the island skipping is responsible for the voices we hear in the jungle and/or the appearance of "backward speaking Walt." These episodes would represent people from a different time "crossing paths" with Jack, Kate, etc. "Backward speaking Walt" as well as the other voices (Jack, etc. trying to return to the island?) could be trying to save the day but no one can understand them because they are trying to change things, which according to Faraday "never works."

#27. Posted by: lost2theworld at January 22, 2009 8:49 AM

We all sat around the TV like we were kids waiting for The Beatles to be on Ed Sullivan. Now you know my age. Thanks Mac for the great job, as always.

I'm going to watch again, but here's an idea or two. Richard and the others are "Part of the Island" or something like that. They are attached to, and have been around along time. This is why Richard doesn't age, or Faraday for that matter. Somehow they're connected to the island.

I'm assuming that Locke is moving in the same direction as Sawyer and crew when the island skips back and forth.

And I think #21 Ronny B has it correct when he states that Desmond would have opened the door for Sawyer if he had banged on the door long enough. Faraday knew Desmond would be putting on his designer yellow suit because he thinks the air is contaminated and it would take him a while to answer the door. "Avon calling."


#28. Posted by: dk at January 22, 2009 8:50 AM

Speaking of the skipping record...did anyone notice that after he put on the record, Dr. Chang warmed up the bottle, got the baby, fed the baby and took a shower and then the record started skipping, it was in the middle of the first song...? Maybe (or maybe not at all), that may parallel Faraday's analogy of the island moving...? Time may actually be standing still while the folks move back in time... What significance that provides...beats me...

#29. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 9:04 AM

@Ronny and DK: Excellent point re: paradox still being in play. Just because Faraday says "no paradox" applies -- and maybe even believes it -- doesn't mean it's true. It'll be interesting to see if the rules hold.

And a general thought that's been touched upon by others: Where is the line between people who need to return to the island and people who can stay away? Is it *just* the Oceanic Six? If that's true, why is Walt excused?

#30. Posted by: mac at January 22, 2009 9:06 AM

NAMASTE!

Could Dr. Chang's baby be adopted since he knows that island birth will kill his wife? I do like the Miles theory because that might explain his 'powers'.

@22 weepict: Jack's phone number was 555-something. Every TV show and movie uses this becuase it is a dead set of numbers.

Time jumps: I think the first one went back because we saw Eko's brother's coke plane go down. The second jump went forward because then the plane was on the ground after Locke accidentally killed Boone in it. The third jump went back in time because the plane was back up on the ridge.

I think only the Losties are jumping. Richard seems to know what is going on but can't help stop it. I believe he is from the Black Rock which we will see magically appear during a jump back in time. Richard then never dies because he keeps returning to the island.

#31. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 9:13 AM

great episode(s) last night and another killer review mac.

of course there are speculations about the time traveling and i'm fairly certain its more complex for my tiny brain but i wanna throw out my little conspiracy thingy.

the butcher shop.
the one ben ran to not looking for porterhouse. the woman seemed vaguely familiar but so did the homie chopping meat. pretty bald if you ask me. and he got out of the camera pretty quick. im not saying its locke but i am saying it looks like locke. :]

should make for an interesting season

#32. Posted by: grimgravyX at January 22, 2009 9:16 AM

Another thought/question (many swirling around my head)...was the compass that Richard handed Locke to prove they know each other in the past one of the items he presented to the young Locke at the foster home...? I can't quite remember.

#33. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 9:17 AM

I think Faraday will later time-jump into the past to the drill site with Dr Chang. And I don't think his baby is caucasian because his wife in the opening scene is clearly Asian. But I like the idea that the baby may be either Miles or Jin. And I like the idea of Mrs Hawking being Farady's mom.

I suspect Locke is not really dead but in a coma-induces state similar to Sayid.

I believe Ben is the one ordering the paternity test to push Kate to return to the island.

I truly believe Ben is NOT the good guy. He is bad, very very bad, and only cares about saving the island.

In the recap show, the producers said "Sun thinks Jin is dead". Now why would they say "thinks" if he was really dead? I believe he and some others on the freighter survived.

#34. Posted by: BEMH at January 22, 2009 9:17 AM

Maybe Ben knows that one of the Oceanic Six is the island's constant but he doesn't know which one so he is trying to bring them all back.

Also to follow up on my previous theory, the Black Rock has stayed on the island so maybe once an object is on the island it stays with the island? Will the zodiac boat be there at all times? Does this make Faraday a new Richard as someone who has always been/will be/should be on the island now that he has arrived there?

#35. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 9:22 AM

- post 20: she was trying to put the fire out -- putting sand on a fire is an effetive way of breaking the fire tetrahedren

- also - it make sence about the arm choppers... the dr in some videos does not have one of his arms, which is consistant to what they were going to do with jules.. curious to see a timeline of the vids if that is possible.

I acutally got a feeling that MRS Reyes is somehow in on 'it'.

And who is the butcher lady.. I was expected to see the guy from the brady bunch :)

as always a great review

#36. Posted by: lostatwork at January 22, 2009 9:30 AM

What's up ya'll....

Quick thought....if we're holding true to the theory that you can't physically jump through time by yourself (evidentally you can 'ride the island'), are we to believe that by seeing Faraday when the Orchid was being built (presumably late '70s or early '80s, whenever Dharma started setting up shop) that he is a similiar being/inhabitant as Richard Alpert? These are the only two characters we've seen in different time periods (not related to an island jump) that do not seem to age at all.

Keep on Scarfin' Yo!

#37. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at January 22, 2009 9:33 AM

time paradox real - Charlie couldn't die.

#38. Posted by: jiggy at January 22, 2009 9:33 AM

Body count according to Lostpedia is 19 of the 48 Losties dead (plus 2 arrow victims last night makes 21) and 7 of the 21 Tailies are dead. Add Charlotte, Juliet, Daniel, and Miles to the Beach People subtract Claire, the Six, Locke, and Walt.

(48-19-2)+(21-7)=41 + 4 - 9 = 36 left

#39. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 9:42 AM

Hey fellow Losties! I've missed ya. So good to have the sohw and Mac back.

With all the references to Charlotte returning to the island, being "home" (oh and the nose bleeding thingy), I think she is ANNIE'S daughter.

#40. Posted by: GatorGal at January 22, 2009 9:43 AM

Hi all! To go along with the dead-Locke is really in a coma, is it possible that he was injected with a serum created from the same spiders that bit Nikki & Paolo? On a different note, the Island won't let Jin die until it's finished with him, even in such a massive explosion. Michael tried killing himself many times but the Island wouldn't allow it.

#41. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 9:53 AM

WELCOME BACK ALL!!!

a few things to mention:
*congrat to mac and wifey on baby #2
*ben is NOT a good person, he is one back-stabbing, manipulative SOB; to say the least
*charlotte being chang's daughter is working for me and chang's wife looked non asian, maybe australian. she had reddish hair and blue or gray eyes.
*did we ever really find out what made walt special and why??

i belive lost is going to be shown again this saturday for those that didnt tivo or tape it.

peace and love to all.

#42. Posted by: tiffani at January 22, 2009 9:56 AM

Wow! So much happened this episode. I was very happy to see Frogurt get a flaming arrow in the chest. HA! Is he the same guy that was Mouse in The Matrix? I couldn't remember where I knew him from, but I think that might be it.

Maybe Walt isn't immune, maybe Ben already has him. And if they have to bring back John's presumably dead body, what about Jin and Michael and Charlie for that matter -- will they have to find them too? If not, then my guess is that Locke isn't dead.

I also think that Sun is the one who set up Kate. She is lying when she tells her she doesn't blame her for Jin's death. We have seen what a vindicitive person Sun is from childhood -- remember the maid?

I wonder how long Faraday's mom has been trying to get back on the island?

#43. Posted by: Wendy at January 22, 2009 9:58 AM

I thought it was a great episode, from beginning to end it was jaw-dropping-edge-of-your-seat stuff going on.... except maybe the sleeping Pakistani/Hugo adventures.....
Ana Lucia: "Libby says hi" I thought that was just a tad over the top but OK I'll buy it.
Great episode, great new season start, great review Mac.

#44. Posted by: mapache at January 22, 2009 10:04 AM

One thing to mention - Ethan was the same age when the plane with Ekos brother crashed as he was when the Losties showed up on the island. Whats with that?

#45. Posted by: Melissa at January 22, 2009 10:05 AM

So good to have this bloody show back. No television show is worth waited nine months for, but this came about as close as I could hope for.

Opening up with Dr. Marvin Candle was great, but did I hear somebody call him Dr. Chang? And my first thought was that the baby was Miles, and that might go some way towards his knowing that Ginger had been to the island before.

And with all the screen time that Frogurt was getting you just had to know he was gonna get it.

Busting Sun in the airport and locking her in the little room was great. They did that to my mom once...put her in a little plexiglass booth with some other little old ladies...we joked that they were collecting little old ladies.

I didn't recognize the woman in the butcher shop, but it sure seemed like she'd stored Ben's valuables before.

I think Locke got bit by the Medusa spider, like Paolikki.

And somehow Hurley's got to escape the po-po cuz he has to go on his Firebird freeway chase.

And yeah, if the O6 gotta go back, why not Waaaaaaaalt and Michael?

Had to be Jack &/or Ben that turned the lawyers on to Kate.

Is it just me, or was it pretty damn funny when Frogurt was grousing about "we don't have fire" and then a flaming arrow pierces his chest cavity?

#46. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 22, 2009 10:05 AM

Hey, all. Certainly good to see all of the ole crowd back. I'm sure all of us are more than a little overjoyed at finally being able to get our Lost fix. One quick comment - Mac said there's one confirmed non-traveller. Actually, there's two - Ethan didn't travel after he shot Locke. I have to say, it was a mix of enjoyment and frustration watching this double-length episode. I'll leave everyone else to do the adorations. I've got some observations/complaints:

1) Could it have been more obvious that Frogurt was going to have something happen to him? I mean, couldn't they have just put a Star Trek red shirt on him and gotten the formalities over with?
2) I counted two more "background players" killed in the arrow firestorm. I think it's been said already, but how many more sacrificial lambs are left? Death of unknowns has become so inherent in some of these episodes as to become sadly trivial and underrated. I realize this is all in the context of a show that deals with time travel and smoke monsters and the like, but these are still people constantly watching other people die. Nobody even seems to blink any more.
3) I'm becoming more convinced with each episode how much I really dislike Faraday. I'd almost describe him as evil, despite his nice-guy front. He doesn't tell anyone the truth except when threatened, and then only a little - kind of like Ben. Plus he lets people like Charlotte suffer without telling them what he knows about what she's really likely going through (the island-travel syndrome that will eventually kill her).
4) I don't think Locke is permanently dead, if he's even dead at all, although Ben bringing him to someone with a meat locker might hint at least that he's currently dead. Also, some review site posited that perhaps Claire's exhortation to Kate not to bring "him" back and Hurley's hearing from Charlie that Jack wasn't meant to "raise him" were both actually a reference to bringing Locke back and raising him from the dead instead of the seemingly obvious references they appeared to be at the time. What does everyone else think?
5) Here's an important thought - regarding the whole "island skipping through time" conundrum, I'm a little conflicted with the presentation of the whole thing. I mean, there's really two possibilities that I see. One is that the island is skipping through time, presenting a different date/time to the Losties as it does so. If that's true, and the Losties are living their existence in real time present time, why can't we see them and for that matter the island? Were they and everything swept up into something more than just the island moving through time? The other possibility, which would make more sense but isn't how things are being explained, is that the Losties are the ones actually traveling through time, not the island. This would work to explain why they keep showing up in all of these period of time but not why the island disappeared from view. What it comes down to is there are still some holes in the time-travel explanation that don't jibe with the reality as it exists within the show that I'd like to hear more detail about.
6) Was I the only one who thought Sun was the woman in the bed (and thus the baby was hers) at the beginning of the episode and the man lying in bed with her that turned out to be the professor was the big reveal that we were waiting to see? I was left confused as to why we'd be led down a specific path only to find out the woman and baby not only weren't Sun and child but entirely irrelevant to the rest of the story.
7) Nice catch whomever mentioned the likely connection between the mysterious others (perhaps original inhabitants) and Patchy's missing hand.
8) Regarding the person who mentioned Walt and why he isn't on the list of people that needs to come back, my question goes even further. At one point he was being presented as special and a key component of the story in being connected to the island. Suddenly he leaves the island and nothing more ever comes of him other than some cameo appearances. Now they're bringing everyone back and leaving him out? Beyond the obvious possibility of problems with the actor's agent and/or schooling issues and the like, why the complete write-off of his character from the story after such a buildup originally?
9) Regarding Desmond suddenly remembering a memory that was planted there by Faraday, this is another one of those paradoxes we'll never be able to reconcile. Desmond remembers it at that moment because Faraday places it there in the past at that moment in what is currently the present, but in reality wouldn't he have had that memory all of the time from that moment in the past until now? I know, I know, I'm nit-picking, but it's just so obvious and as a true Lost fan we overlook these things because they just can't be reconciled and we know it and the writers know it and it's just a show do lighten up, but it still irks me.

So much more to say but I don't want to clog the channel with too much at once.

#47. Posted by: LostedIt at January 22, 2009 10:06 AM

It will be interesting to see how dark of a place Sun goes this season only to find out Jin isn't dead.

#48. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 10:07 AM

Namasté everyone!

I'll add my thoughts in bits and pieces as they spring to mind. With all the new posts coming in at a fast pace, my apologies in advance if someone already covered the same.

Point 1 - A tip of the hat to mac and the new streamlined review format. Being able to cover so much ground and add so much insight with so few words is a rare gift.

Point 2 - Another nomination for best line: "It points north, John" - Alpert's response to Locke after handing him the compass and Locke asks "What does it do"?

Point 3 - #19 Landa wrote : Was Locke around when Ethan filtrated the camp to take Claire? I would have thought he would have remembered Locke, since they've met in the past.
Yes he was, and he would definitely remember someone that he shot in the leg, who claimed to be their appointed leader, then vanished into thin air (from Ethan's perspective).
On the surface, Locke's encounter with Ethan appears to contradict Faraday's assertion that such meetings were an impossibility. It is probably worthwhile to revisit Season 1 to see if and how Ethan interacted with Locke.

Point 4 - Locke's encounter with Ethan may shed some new light on the scene with Mikhail at the sonic fence. Mikhail said "Of course I don’t know you, Sayid Jarrah. How could I? And you, Kate Austen, are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was pa..." Perhaps we were only meant to assume that the unfinished word was "paralyzed". If we learned anything at all from Season Three's "Exposé", Mikhail could easily have intended to say "Power Lines" or perhaps "Paulo Lies". It now seems to make more sense that Mikhail encountered Locke on the Island at some time in the past.

#49. Posted by: vacc at January 22, 2009 10:14 AM

For those who did not read "What I Did on My Summer Vacation" (see, Random Topics Part 3), I theorized the island as being part of an Egyptian time clock pendulum, and it "moved" to a different focal plane (vanished) when Ben moved the gears that controlled the chain length of the electromagnetic energy that leads to the bob (the island itself).

After a frustrating torrent of a steaming pile of Mess, being the flawed and inconsistent alleged explanations for the "time skips," suddenly there is Mrs. Hawking using a pendulum's oscillation to find the island! That was my "whoa" moment of the evening.

#50. Posted by: welh at January 22, 2009 10:22 AM

Hi Everybody!I wish I could just enjoy this show instead of trying to understand it!

I need to watch it again. But on the paradox problem. I think the paradox is that you can't meet yourself. As they seem to be moving in time as a whole being, I don't think they would meet themselves.They just would be back in the right place in time they came from. Like be in their own minds in a different time? Like Desmond?

They can't change time because the universe will correct - as in Charlie's death. No matter what Des did, Charlie was still bound to die.

Desmond seems to be different maybe because he has already moved through time blowing the hatch? (I like the fact that he is Scottish being the reason Mac - LOL) Then Eko and Locke and Charlie would be special too.

The rest were on the beach or on the other side of the island.

The fact that all the O6 have to return to fix things is curious. And as others have said why not Walt? I think the crash put the losties too close to a whateverelectromagnetic thing and so they all were skipping on a record for their time on the island. SOME of them returning to REAL time would screw things up?

So much to think about and yet do the wash and shop for dinner and get ready for work.......GRRRRRR

#51. Posted by: berkyo at January 22, 2009 10:26 AM

This is my first post, although I've been an avid follower of the blog for some time. Mac, you always make me laugh.
I believe the hand choppers are a Widmore crew, because of their accents, and because Charles told Ben that the Island was his before it was Ben's. Maybe Widmore has ancestors on the Black Rock...

#52. Posted by: soxy at January 22, 2009 10:27 AM

@47 LostedIt: I think they wrote off Walt because the actor grew 6-8 inches in the meantime. He visited Hurley last season and was about 6' tall.

What was up with Miles detecting the dead boar only being dead for 3 hours? Which of his ghost whisperer powers would have allowed him to talk with dead boars?

#53. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 10:28 AM

@50/wehl - I distinctly remembered your comment when I saw that and had the same reaction. Great observation!

#54. Posted by: LostedIt at January 22, 2009 10:29 AM

I hope I'm right in believing that Ben is one of the good guys. I think it will come down to a question of the ends justifying the means. Even though his actions are negative & manipulative, perhaps he is only concerned with the big picture.

#55. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 10:32 AM

i am not sure if ben is good. I only caught part of the preview showed last night and the producers clearly state.. ben is bad (now i did only catch parts).

i think locke is dead-dead.. otherwise if he was in some sort of tauper (liek a bear) and is put in a freezer at the butcher shop, wouldnt that mess up the whole work?

C

#56. Posted by: lostatwork at January 22, 2009 10:35 AM

me again.
I just want to state for all to see (and later laugh at me) That I always though the US Government - and I will accept another government- was involved with the island at one point looking for the ultimate weapon as Governments often do. And they are the ones who put in the Cerebus system. aka Smoke Monster. I believe the military types who were hacking at people were those people.
Ok. all done.

#57. Posted by: berkyo at January 22, 2009 10:37 AM

8--anjou--I don't think the Searcher was a flashforward but a floashback to the 06 before they got back to civilization because they were making up their minds to lie

45--melissa--
I don't think its a matter of Ethan not aging. I don't think it's been that long before the Losties got there that Eko's drug plane crashed.

46--ransom--
Wasn't Hurley's firebird chase before he got locked in the looney bin again?

So many things everyone's brought up that just never struck me when watching--need to get back in Lost viewing mode. That's what's so great about this blog is hearing what other folks caught but I missed--love it!

I do like the idea of Miles as Dr. Chang's baby. It would make a lot of sense. Not as enthused at the suggestion that it might be Jin.

Love the idea that Locke was bitten by a spider.

Sure hope the no paradox thing holds true. I've mentioned on other threads how much time travel stories make my head hurt!

Wonder if maybe Jin is dead but able to exist on the island like other "deadies" such as Ana Licia and Christian Shepherd. Maybe the only way Sun could be with him would be to move back to the island.

I'm thinking the producers may consider some old mysteries as resolved. Like I don't know if they'll revisit the whispers. Wasn't that just a device to show that the Others were coming?
And I'm not sure they'll explain Smokey fully. Maybe we just need to accept it as a manifestation of the Island. Seems like the producers on the recap show made some of the things that felt like unresolved mysteries sound as if they had been explained as much as they were going to be.

#58. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 10:49 AM

@56 berkyo: I blame the French with all their Rousseau's adn croissants!

#59. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 10:51 AM

Although not a "line", I thought the scene where Hurley's Dad put caviar on his sandwich was hysterical. That's a poor man's Rich Sandwich for sure.

Anyone gone to a hospital lately? The idea that Jack, even as a known doctor there, could just sneak Sayid in, seemed a touch ridiculous. He hadn't even shut the door! A bit silly.

Unmentioned is the fact that the bad guys at the safehouse were using darts, clearly with intent to capture. Why? Who wants them and for what purpose? I don't think Widmore is the obvious answer.

Time travel stories are hard to write correctly, but so far they seem to be (mostly) syncing the pieces up ok, with Desmond available to smooth out any trouble they may run into. Way to go brutha!

#60. Posted by: The Duf at January 22, 2009 10:57 AM

Walt was only special when he was short. Now that he's tall the Island has no use for him.
sing along everybody:
"Short people are special..."

#61. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 10:58 AM

Something I noticed that I thought was interesting is how they flashed back during the opening scene and then when they flashed forward to that same timeframe the opening credits continued. I think it was about 30 minutes or so into the show. No real plot mysteries or anything, but I thought it was neat how they were basically showing the time movement within the broadcast.

#62. Posted by: susan at January 22, 2009 11:05 AM

I think the women in the butcher shop is Julliet's sister, who had cancer and was the reason Julliet went to the island in the first place.

#63. Posted by: corckp at January 22, 2009 11:06 AM

"Short people are special..." Err...oh yeah...wait a minute... When Tall Walt and his grandma visited Hurley in the mental hospital, didn't Hurley ask Walt if Bentham (Locke) visited Walt...? Didn't they talk about going back to save the other Losties...including Walt's dad, Michael...? Why would Locke go and see Walt if he's not returning to the island...? Maybe more on Walt to come...

#64. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 11:07 AM

Didn't Dr.Marvin Cnadle in one of the oreintation videos not move one arm..Was his arms cut by the same poeple who threaten to cut off Juliet's arm?????

#65. Posted by: jag at January 22, 2009 11:12 AM

In the episode "Cabin Fever"when Richard interviews a young Locke obstensibly for a special school, he gave him 4 objects and asks which one belonged to him. one of them was a compass. Gotta be the one Richard gave Locke in this episode.

#66. Posted by: debbie at January 22, 2009 11:12 AM

on a funny note, no one mentioned the weekend and bernie's reference...

c

#67. Posted by: lostatwork at January 22, 2009 11:14 AM

Did anyone notice what Desmond said to Faradey when he stepped out of the hatch? "Are you the guy that's been banging on my door for the last 20 minutes?!" Desmond heard Sawyer knocking on the door and was simply putting on his suit before leaving the hatch. Faradey def lied to Sawyer when he told him that he could do nothing to change the past.

#68. Posted by: Michael at January 22, 2009 11:18 AM

I will now reveal all. This is not a spoiler, because I really don't know for sure. However, LOST is brilliant sci-fi. J.J. Abrams has picked up on the legitimate proposed physics theory that if indeed time travel were possible, then the Universe has a self-correcting mechanism that prevents time travel paradoxes, i.e. you can't change the past - and if you try, the Universe will stop you. The Island is a geological formation with special properties that effect time. The Island also contains a statue of a four toed foot. There is an urban legend that as humans continue to evolve, they will lose their pinky toe. From this, we can deduce that the foot statue is not from the past - but from the very distant future where people have evolved not to have a pinky toe. Hence, the Island has actually traveled back in time from the distant future. When the Island traveled back in time, it appeared in the same spot as the Black Rock, so the ship ended up in the middle of the Island. The Island wants certain people on the Island, because these people are the ancestors of the people who inhabit the Island in the future. Without their presence on the Island, the future can't happen. The mystical powers exerted by the Island, such as resurrecting people, creating odd coincidences, directing people to the Island, and the black smoke, are simply the manifestations of the self-correcting mechanism of the Universe. Apparently, the Island goes back in time and threatens the distant future unless things happen according to the plan of the self-correcting mechanism. LOST is a tremenous blend of religion and modern physics, essentially creating a God-like force out of the hypothetical self-correcting mechanism of physics assuming time travel is even possible.

#69. Posted by: John J. Bannan at January 22, 2009 11:22 AM

Don't have time for all the comments, but did anyone comment on the fact that Dr. Chang had a baby and he was ON the island? Was the baby born there? I thought no one could get preggers there? That's an interesting question to me and to Juliet, who told me to ask it.

#70. Posted by: timb at January 22, 2009 11:24 AM

Did anyone else get excited when the clock turned from 8:14 to 8:15? I thought "here we go....!"

#71. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 11:26 AM

Speaking of Hot Pockets...

When Hurley threw the Hot Pocket at Ben and missed, hitting the wall and Ben never even flinched like he knew Hurley couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the broad side of a barn...now that was funny that was.

#72. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 22, 2009 11:33 AM

@ransomjackson: In Hurley's defense, the quirky aerodynamics of Hot Pockets are notoriously tough to judge.

#73. Posted by: mac at January 22, 2009 11:36 AM

Food seems to be an integral part of Ben & Hurley's relationship! First the candy bar & now the hot pocket!

#74. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 11:40 AM

Also in Hurley's defense, I'm not sure he was aiming for Ben's beady head. I think that was just a "knee jerk" reaction to have been startled by his creepiness. Comfort food rocks!!

#75. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 11:43 AM

Why was Sayid going to get Hurley again?
Wasn't Sayid working for Ben? Shouldn't Ben have know that Sayid was getting Hurley? Why then was Ben planning on getting Hurley with Jack?
Am I forgetting something?

Loved the producers' comment on Jack's bad beard in the recap episode. Was the beard made out of Jack's bad old hair from his flashbacks in the hospital with his dad?

#76. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 11:43 AM

Great to have LOST and MAC back. Definitely a nosebleed season opener. The blogs are coming in fast. Sorry if my observations are redundant.

It appears that Dr. Chang passes a pregnant woman in the barracks. And, since his wife and baby are alive, perhaps that whole mother-baby-dying thing happens later after who-knows- what happened.

Also, inside the cave, Dr. Chang says limitless energy is behind the wall and releasing it could be harmful. Ben had to blow up the wall, thus releasing the energy, in order to get to the wheel. So, I guess the result is all the time-skipping. Does that mean they have to seal up the wall again?

Also, when Ben told Locke that he (Ben) would have to leave the Island after "moving" it, was it because Ben knew that he'd be time-traveling with the release of all that energy? I'm so confused. And loving it.

Oh, and Hurley wearing the "I (heart) my shi tzu t-shirt"...that cracked me up. What, no panda?

#77. Posted by: lovelost at January 22, 2009 11:47 AM

I just looked @ my last post & have discovered a new brand of ice cream...Ben & Hurley's! A new Losties brand to compete with Dharma's flavors!

#78. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 11:48 AM

one other thing.. did anyone notice that ben was suprised when Jack said he had Sayid there?

I think ben sent those guys after Sayid and wanted him taken care of (maybe ala some sort of rendition)

#79. Posted by: LOSTATWORK at January 22, 2009 11:54 AM

#69 WOW what a theory! I really like that and it makes a lot of sense - the island is from the future and the ancestors of the future generation need to be on it to course-correct and for there to be a future. This is why O6 are needed there, and perhaps why babies dies (they are not part of the future). Although these 2 examples sort of contradict each other. It also explains why Mrs Hawking says "God help us all", meaning we won't be part of the future if these ancestors don't go back to create us.

If O6 all need to come back, why not Desmond? Also what time period are they in when Desmond gets his "dream" message from Faraday? Is it just after they get home or 3 years later? Because Faraday delivers the message just minutes/hours after the island moves.

Did anyone catch when Sun shows Kate a baby picture, and references a different name than her daughter's? We also know it's not her daughter, because she would be about the same age as Aaron at this point (around 3). So who was she referencing?

I'm not convinced Sayid is with Ben because he did tell Hurley to do the exact opposite of what Ben tells him. Also, Ben was very surprised to here Sayid "showed up" with Jack. I think Ben was trying to capture Sayid so he could make him go back to the island because he too is resisting.

#80. Posted by: BEMH at January 22, 2009 12:09 PM

Some thoughts on Faraday based on both the show as well as comments already posted here.

Point 1 - A lot of discussion so far about Faraday's insistence that time travel can not result in paradox. I believe that the scene where Faraday could only remember 2 of the 3 cards (which Charlotte regarded as an improvement) is a big clue here.
When Faraday first meets Desmond at Oxford, he scoffs at Desmond's time travel claim because he assumed he would remember their meeting in the future - thus creating a paradox. Faraday's subsequent memory impairment removed the paradox factor.

Point 2 - A previous poster asked why Faraday retrieved his notebook before knocking on the hatch. I believe Faraday's memory impairment forces a reliance on his notebook. Perhaps he skimmed through his notes to first verify whether their encounter at the hatch actually took place.

Point 3 - In Faraday's "Time is like a street" analogy he tells Sawyer emphatically that if you try to change anything you will fail. Sawyer asks why he's so sure and Faraday follows up that he spent his adult life studying space time, and more specifically the DHARMA initiative. I believe that a connection between those statements was STRONGLY intended and that the very purpose of the Dharma Initiative was to find a way to change a future outcome. Since we've already seen people become unstuck in time, my guess is that someone has learned of a cataclysmic future event that must be avoided.

Point 4 - Faraday's conversation with Desmond at the hatch may be a HUGE reveal. Especially his statement that Desmond is unique and that the rule doesn't apply to him. More on this in my next post.

#81. Posted by: vacc at January 22, 2009 12:09 PM

With flavors like +Ben's Apollo bar crunch +Charlie's peanut butter fudge swirl +Juliet's hamburger pie in the sky &+Hugo's dad's caviar chocolate chip Ben & Hurley's can't be beat!

#82. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 12:20 PM

No time to post a full reaction right now, but three points:

Did everyone notice that the 'sonogram' of the rock wall the engineer said showed a 'cavity' in the rock also clearly showed the 'frozen donkey wheel' already there, partially embedded in the rock?

I wish to point out that I speculated that the island was time travelling and would become it's own origin back at Hiatus Blog #3, Post 24. Where did this mysterious island with smoke monster, strange magnetic properties, frozen donkey wheel and indigenous white people in the South Pacific come from? Why it jumped there from the future (2004) only to exist for a few years until it was 2004 again and time to jump back to become it's own origin (again?). Visions of the Worm Ouroboros.

I invite all our returning regulars who have not already done so to scroll down to the "Lost Blog Reader Map" and stick in a pin to show your location. Caution: Pins appear to become unstuck after a while if you don't add at least a little more than the bare minimum information. So post a pic or icon and/or a greeting along with your location and handle to insure 'map-longevity'.

#83. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 22, 2009 12:24 PM

IHBBY = It Hasn't Been Built Yet!

Good to have the blog back, Mac!

Oh, and Locke is only *mostly* dead.

#84. Posted by: James at January 22, 2009 12:26 PM

also.. maybe the people that are the most important to the survival of everyone is the first list that we saw way back when???

so b/c sayid if i remember was not on that list, does it make his presence not needed?

#85. Posted by: lostatwork at January 22, 2009 12:29 PM

80--BEMH
Penny says to Desmond he's been off the island three years after he wakes up from the dream.
I thought Sun did say Ji Yeon(which is her daughter's name) when handing the picture to Kate. Did we see that it was a picture of a baby? The age difference with Aaron would be interesting.

#86. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 12:36 PM

So why do the people who meet in the past in this episode not remember each other in the future meetings of past episodes? In other words, why did Desmond not remember Daniel, or Ethan remember Locke? (I guess Daniel not remembering Desmond and Locke not remembering Ethan is to be expected, because it's their future selfs who went to the past, not their past-selfs.)

Well, there are a couple of explanations I can come up with:

-Daniels theory of how this time jumping works is wrong. Not a very satisfying answer, let's stick with his theory for the moment.

-Desmond and Ethan just forgot. Not very likely either. Daniel was the only person Desmond saw for years and years while in the hatch. Surely he would remember that. The more so since Daniel disappeared before his eyes. Ethan just forgetting I also can't imagine. The Others are so protective of their island that they wouldn't forget someone just appearing and disappearing suddenly.

Now, to explain Desmond-Daniel I'm at a loss, but for Locke-Ethan I have another theory.

-Ethan surely reported this event back to someone at Others HQ. The logical choice here might be Ben. When the plane crashed, Ben gave explicit instructions to Ethan not to get involved, so Ethan would not have openly shown that he knew Locke. But wait a minute, Locke told Ethan in the past that Ben made him leader of the Others, surely Ethan would have reported that bit too. So why would Ben try to get Locke to join the others, if he knew his power would be usurped by him? Last season he seemed reluctant enough to give way to Locke. So perhaps it wasn't Ben who Ethan reported to, but then who? Well, who have we seen busy recruiting new leaders for the Others? Who have we seen showing an explicit interest in Locke as a child? Who might have had enough power within the Other's organisation to have people reporting directly to him, without going to Ben first? Who is the only person who doesn't seem to jump and who seems to know exactly what is going on? Right, Richard. My guess is that Ethan reported to Richard, not Ben, and Richard either knowing Locke's potential (from visiting him as a child) or being made aware of his potential via this past-encounter with Ethan (when was Eko's brother's plane crash? I guess Locke would have been past childhood by then, right?) that the Island needed Locke, kept this meeting from Ben and instructed Ethan not to reveal his knowledge of Locke when the Losties fell from the sky.

#87. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 22, 2009 12:40 PM

Can someone explain to me why we think that Dr. Chang's baby has to be Asian? (As per Nancy Reagan #15 and BEMH #34) I just re-watched that scene, and it was a rather Caucasian looking baby, particularly with that blondish-brown hair

Also, the woman in the bed with Dr. Chang, if we presume her to be his wife, looked more Asian (Not Australian, as #42 Tiffani states...are we talking about the same woman?) But that doesn't mean she or Chang have to be a biological parent to the baby.

I don't think Miles or Jin are the baby. Didn't we see Jin have a reunion with his dad, anyway? I think the baby was adopted, which is entirely possible. Locke was adopted, or at least put up for adoption, Alex was "adopted", and Aaron was adopted. And thousands of people adopt every year. It shouldn't be that inconceivable that people, be they Asian or not, and even if they are living on a mysterious and remote island, could adopt. I don't want to blow anyone's mind with this infomration, but Asian people can adopt Caucasian babies.

#88. Posted by: anjou at January 22, 2009 12:44 PM

@74/HotPocket23: Don't forget the ancient tin of crackers!

@79/Lostatwork: I got the impression that Ben sent the Dart Shooters to get Sayid to go to the island with him and Jack since Sayid no longer trusts Ben. So when Jack says he has Sayid, Ben is pleasantly surprised.


#89. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 12:46 PM

Welcome back, everybody! Can't wait to actually watch the episode(s) and read all your thoughtful and insightful comments.

Meantime, here's something I heard during the interregnum (is that acceptable usage, grammarians?) that is neither thoughtful nor insightful:

From the Family Guy episode "Baby Not on Board" this fall, the family discusses where they want to go on vacation and Meg suggests the island from Lost. Stewie advises against it. Why? Because of Matthew Fox’s "heavy breathing."

#90. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at January 22, 2009 12:59 PM

SOmeone might have already mentioned this as I didn't read all 89 posts up to now (man, Lost fans are prolific!) BUT: regarding the 'soldiers' who were going to chop off Juliet's arm -- think back to Season 2 when Goodwin and Ana Lucia were in the jungle Goodwin had a small gun. Ana Lucia said it looked old "like World War II issue" -- perhaps left from these soldiers we saw last night...

#91. Posted by: Gail at January 22, 2009 1:00 PM

#87 : Because we viewed the first season's events during the 'original' timeline. Faraday hadn't yet gone back to talk to Desmond, Locke hadn't yet gone back to interact with Ethan, etc.

From a logistics standpoint, we'll never see the full extent of the timeline's split, as that would require going back and refilming the seasons on the island during the newly-created alternate reality. Hopefully, though, we'll get the general overview of the major changes that occurred as a result of this time-jumping.

Then again, there may actually be clues in the previous seasons if we look for them.

#92. Posted by: James at January 22, 2009 1:01 PM

Sayid was hit by darts that made him unconscious..clearly Ben was trying to kidnap him back to the island and so was suprised to hear from Jack that Sayid was with him

#93. Posted by: Jag at January 22, 2009 1:01 PM

A few things...
1. What if this isn't an Ancestor thing but the souls of the actual people replaying their destinys (ies?) over and over again? It would explain Alpert's agelessness and perhaps love of eyeliner. This might also connect to the Island's need to have certain people on it.
2. The soldiers with the flaming arrows and machetes...when Hurley first got the numbers way back, didn't an old, Australian rancher talk about hearing the numbers while at sea? The men did seem to have old uniforms and Australian accents. Made me think WW2.
3. Nobody has even mentioned the shirtless state of Sawyer. I know that I should be above this sort of thing, but I felt that the writers may have been gently mocking the female viewership with the gratuitous chest shots. Not that I minded...

Thanks to all for the interesting thoughts and ideas. I really hope the answers make it worth the years of my life spent watching the show.

#94. Posted by: lardiea at January 22, 2009 1:02 PM

@90: Scooby-Dude

ilovebenjaminlinus is out there somewhere right now laughing her head off feeling quite vindicated

#95. Posted by: LostedIt at January 22, 2009 1:04 PM

@87/Plain Simple: I believe the answer to forgetting/remembering is easy: the Losties are jumping but people who have been on the island for long lengths of time (Desmond, Richard, Ethan) are frozen in island time. The Losties are jumping in and out of their timelines.

#96. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 1:08 PM

Why are people thinking that Richard doesn't "jump"? When he finds Locke, he says something to the effect of "next time we meet I won't recognize you". To me that implies that when they jump back in time, Richard will encounter Locke pre-tribal-merge, as did Ethan, and (like Ethan) Richard will not really know who Locke is.

#97. Posted by: Buck41 at January 22, 2009 1:12 PM

I think that future Locke/Bentham is dead, but if brought back to the island and jumped back in time, he would be alive again- hence the preserving of the body at Ben's favorite house of meat.

#98. Posted by: PartyofSix at January 22, 2009 1:17 PM

In season 1, didn't the producers say that everything could be explained by science?

Why do I feel like I lied to? This is all becoming too science fiction. I understand we have to stretch our imaginations, but come on.

#99. Posted by: schiano at January 22, 2009 1:17 PM

@94/Lardeia: I was more concerned at Sawyer's plumber's crack than his chest shots. Get the man a belt! Frogurt isn't using his anymore!

#100. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 1:19 PM

Comments on the "time issues:"

1. Faraday first said that only the "mind jumps" through time with his Eloise experiment. Now, the alleged explanation is that time is linear (a stream) where you can go only back and in the future, but you cannot change the events of history.
2. But those "jumps" did change the course of events, as Desmond going back to contact Penny which led directly to the rescue aboard the Searcher. Now, there is a logical construct problem here: you only "mind jump" off the island but you "body jump" on the island?
3. If time is linear concept, then when the island "skips" then all the elements in that location at that time would also skip with the island. The concept of the camp people moving through time but the camp equipment which was with them at the same time and location not moving makes no sense.
4. Further, if people in the same time stream (ex Ethan and Juliet in the Others camp) would skip/move the same. So when Ethan comes across Locke, then disappears at the next flash, Juliet should have disappeared as well, but she did not.
5. Further, Alpert saying that he will not know Locke when the next skip goes into the past is inconsistent because Alpert knew Locke before the island when he recruited him as a child. The concept of selective and inconsistent memories in time skips is a simple but major flaw in the explanation.
6. If Faraday is right in saying the island is skipping like a record through time, and time is linear, then the island's location would remain at the same location whether it is 3 plus or 3 minus years from the time of the first skip. Therefore, the heli/O6 people would not have seen the island "vanish" but just see the island in its same place but 3 years earlier.
7. The result of "mind jumps" by island visitors who left the island was nose bleeds and exploding brains. Charlotte is still on the island, but is having a nose bleed? If that is happening to her, then Miles should also be having nose bleeds.
8. If people are popping in and out of the island time, when Yemi's plane crashed in the past, Locke would not have been on the island to see it crash. So if Locke and the 815ers stay on the island no matter what time period it goes, then all the people on the island during the skips would also be picked up in the time stream along with them and not "fade" away. And what's with Locke's injury coming with him to other time periods? That defeats the concept that history cannot be changed when going through time.

It is more probable that what Faraday is telling us is totally wrong; a red herring.

Comments on the legal/med issues:

1. Kate, knowledgable about the legal system, should have known that no attorney shows up at a defendant's door with a "court order" for paternity tests without first due process notice of summons and a court hearing. And the fact an associate will take the sample destroys any chain of evidence reliability. Again, this whole scene is a farce in reality.
2. Jack wheels in a coma Sayid into an emergency room, and no nurses, techs or other doctors rush with a crash cart to attend a man in dire need of medical attention? And how can Jack make a diagnosis and start sticking medicine into Sayid when he has no idea what toxin is in his system (no blood test results)? Then, suddenly, Sayid awakes with the strength of the undead??

It again shows either TPTB don't tie the details together for a detailed laden show, or they are telling us that this is not real.

And because they show us another Hurley talking to the dead moment! This will continue to fuel that the whole show is just in the crazy mind of Hurley. The physical hit by Ana on Hurley's shoulder and warning was similar to dead Charlie physically touching Hurley at Santa Rosa. If you recall, when Hurley pulls over, he closes his eyes in deep thought of what to do next; and suddenly Ana appears to warn him not to get arrested . . . more than convenient.

#101. Posted by: welh at January 22, 2009 1:20 PM

Island course correction probably caused Ethan to forget seeing Locke. Once time shifted, Locke was no longer there and Ethan forgot as if he'd never been there.

Desmond remembers in his dream because somehow he and Daniel are connected and he is Daniel's constant.

Or it may be that there have been changes to the timeline from the time jumps but nothing that affects the big picture. Just as Desmond made small changes to Charlie's destiny, Charlie still eventually died. Small changes like Ethan meeting Locke must not affect the overall big picture of destiny. The first time we saw Ethan meet Locke earlier in the series, this current meeting of Ethan and Locke had not taken place as the Island hadn't started moving yet. It still occurs though its a change because it does not affect destiny overall. Desmond is allowed to meet Daniel because it leads toward the overall destiny.

Gret--just when I thought there would be no Terminator style paradoxes to make my head hurt--here we go! ARRGGHHH!

#102. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 1:27 PM

@89/PiecesofArzt: Thanks! I had forgotten those crackers! Ok, so here are my ideas for why Desmond & Ethan couldn't remember their previous encounters. It's because they hadn't happened yet. Faraday, Sawyer, etal. had lived their lives from birth in one direction of time (past-present-future). Now the group is bouncing around time encountering the people & events of that time. Faraday's past self wasn't there to talk to Des @ the hatch door. It was his current self who is Xyrs, Xdays, Xhrs, Xsec old. That is why Desmond suddenly remembered it. It was a new detail/event added in time based on the fact that the current Faraday travelled to a past time.

#103. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 1:28 PM

@99/Schiano: I remember this also and used as a way to dispute theories but now I have given up. Time travel is based in science theory but not proven science. Now you just have to expect that they can say anything is possible because it COULD happen.

#104. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 1:40 PM

did anyone noctice that marvin candle has a baby...on the island? it seemed really young...do you think he had it on or off the island? if it's "on" then what happened to make it so no more babies can be born?

#105. Posted by: Danny at January 22, 2009 1:44 PM

Dr. Chang's baby was asian-Miles?

#106. Posted by: LostFan 4815162342 at January 22, 2009 1:44 PM

@welh 101, concerning two points:

>4. Further, if people in the same time stream (ex Ethan and Juliet in the Others camp) would skip/move the same. So when Ethan comes across Locke, then disappears at the next flash, Juliet should have disappeared as well, but she did not.

Ethan didn't dissappear from Locke. Locke dissappeared from ethan.


>5. Further, Alpert saying that he will not know Locke when the next skip goes into the past is inconsistent because Alpert knew Locke before the island when he recruited him as a child. The concept of selective and inconsistent memories in time skips is a simple but major flaw in the explanation.

I'm working on a theory that Richard skipped into the past with the island. That's why Richard-past looks no older than Richard-2004. Because he's only a few days older than Richard-2004. Past-Richard knows Locke because he's 'already' met him in 2004.

But past-Richard is not sure if the child-Locke he's located is the same John Locke he knows, so he tests him by showing him things that Richard-2004 got from Locke-2004. That's why those things are "already his". I'm not sure how Child-Locke is supposed to recognize those things, but give me some time - I'll come up with a theory.

#107. Posted by: Cecil at January 22, 2009 1:44 PM

@102 Crispy Seaplanes: I agree that it's the big picture that matters. Desmond tried to be a hero to save Charlie, but dead is dead. In the end, it doesn't matter how. Events were still going to take place until he died. So it won't change things a whole lot if Locke has a brief encounter with Ethan. Or will it...?

#108. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 22, 2009 1:46 PM

On the 'military' guys, Jones, Mattingly, and ???: the rifle is definitely an M1 Garand, the primary US service rifle during WWII. It came in service in 1936, and was officially issued in many countries until the '60s. But you could say they are still in use since it's a good rifle.

I thought Jones spoke with a Brit accent not Australian. Any case, I don't know of any army wearing nametapes until the 60's. And the left side, where Jones has his name, is for the service, like "U.S. Army." Your name goes on the right side.

This all tells me they are not actual military, but some paramilitary/security outfit.

#109. Posted by: Robbo at January 22, 2009 1:51 PM

No offense to anyone who brings this up ... I've just got a nitpick I need to share:

The producers may have once said everything on the island can be explained through science. "Science," of course, can be redefined any way you like.

"Lost" is absolutely -- without any shred of doubt -- a science fiction show (Smoke monster, people! Smoke Monster!). As such, the rules of science as we learned them in school -- and as apply in our everyday lives -- clearly don't apply in the "Lost" universe. The writers cherrypick what they want and toss away stuff that doesn't fit into the narrative.

Now, there *does* appear to be a basis for scientific "theory" in many of the sci-fi elements on the show, and I really, truly believe this is what the producers meant when they (allegedly) said everything that transpires is tied to science. But in many cases the theories are waaaaay out there. That doesn't mean there isn't some validity, it's just that "science" in the "Lost" world is a lot different than the basic science we all encounter.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

#110. Posted by: mac at January 22, 2009 1:51 PM

#88 Of course an Asian couple can adopt a Caucasian baby, but let's face it, I doubt there is an adoption agency on the island! Not to mention the fact that if babies can't be born on the island, who would give theirs up if it actually lived? Sure they could have adopted off-island, then quickly moved their lives to live on-island with thier newly adopted baby, but this seems unlikely. Given that they are still in the "it's your turn to get the baby" stage, the infant is assumed to be rather young.

#111. Posted by: BEMH at January 22, 2009 1:53 PM

@101: welh

Regarding item #5 - Alpert would not know the adult Locke, only the child Locke in the past.
Regarding item #6 - I think I've come up with an explanation in terms that would fit with Damon/Carlton's description of things and yet answer one of my (and your) big complaints (but not both parts of mine). It's true that the island is supposed to be existing along only one string to avoid the paradox issue. What might also be true, if only for the sake of the Lost story line, is that the island moves along in time like you and me but can exist in different points in time relative to it's real point in time. What I'm saying is that there's always this global/universal clock ticking along against which the island and the Losties must exist, but where they physically exist at that universal time could be relative. So when the island starts skipping through time, it's relative to the universal time. Say it starts skipping at 1:00pm and so no longer can be seen at 1:01pm, and skips for a half hour in total. If it still exists at all times relative to this universal time when it finished skipping and returned to "normal" time it would reappear at 1:30pm, not 1:00pm. That, at least for me, would explain how it could possibly disappear. What it would not reconcile is why the island seems to exist in its relative "local" time exactly as it did at that time the first time it was there (ie: the hatch is/isn't blown based on what time it jumps forward/back to) while the Losties seem to be unaffected by their relative "local" position in time. Even Desmond inhabited his own body and existence in his relative "local" time when he mind-jumped around. That would lead me to believe that the Losties that are floating with the island are floating in a way different from the island itself for some reason and furthermore that some or all of the Losties should be able to run into themselves as they pop around the timeline.
Regarding item #7 - not every person who left the island got affected

#112. Posted by: LostedIt at January 22, 2009 1:55 PM

@34 Yeah that comment was to obvious, Jin must be alive. And Sun will realize this just after she has helped Widemore hunt down and kill the O6.

#113. Posted by: CC_Boston at January 22, 2009 2:02 PM

@107/ Cecil:

My observation was that any two people who are in the same time/place when the island would skip would have the same cosmic/physics principles apply to them at that time; both carried along the same new time stream. I would suspect that Nature would require the same forces and outcomes to apply to everyone at the same place and time.

If you are suggesting that the people on the island are actually still on the day and time when the island vanished, but it is the island and everything attached to it that is moving in different time(s) around them, then can we suggest that the 815ers are stumbling through various holographic sets like Capt. Pike in The Cage?

#114. Posted by: welh at January 22, 2009 2:10 PM

I did not read all 113 posts yet... but does anybody else think that Mrs.Hawking is Farraday's mother???

#115. Posted by: R at January 22, 2009 2:12 PM

... Or anyone think that Pierre Chang's baby could be young Miles??

#116. Posted by: R at January 22, 2009 2:14 PM

You're right mac about the "based in science" thing.
It's similar to how the newer Batman movies try to seem more grounded in reality that the older ones in order to seem more believable. There's a reason a movie with Mr. Freeze seems really silly compared to The Dark Knight. Its also seen in the Iron Man movie. He seems a plausible superhero because his powers are more "based on science" than some other heroes like Thor who is more magical. It doesn't mean the Iron man suit is possible with today's science,it's just made believable by having a somewhat scientific background.

As for why the island disappeared--it's because the island is skipping through time AND space. We're only noticing the time element because we can't see from locations on the island where it islocated in relation to the rest of the world or dimensionally. The element of the skipping that is immediately viewable to our Losties is the time element. faraday did say however that it was skipping through timespace--not just time.

#117. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 2:15 PM

This is turning into an "Did anybody see the picture?" thing with the speculation that Miles could be Dr. Chang's baby. People keep suggesting it as if they first thought of it without having read the previous posts.
So--CMBTK? (Could Miles Be The Kid?)

That said... the fact that so many people are suggesting it makes it seem like there might really be something to this theory...

#118. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 2:22 PM

I just had to point out the irony of Ana Lucia pulling Hurley over for reckless driving and then her line: "Don't get arrested!" Easy to see this as Michelle Rodriguez' advice to remaining cast members for how to stay on the show.

#119. Posted by: sumliber at January 22, 2009 2:23 PM

@ #80 - BEMH - I agree. Ben must have been trying to capture Sayid because he was resisting. The guy watching Hurley was one of Ben's men. Sayid killed him so he could get Hurley before Ben's guys got to him. My thought is that they would "break out" Hurley at the last minute since it would be harder than capturing/kidnapping anyone else.

Sayid doesn't want to go back because he is still searching for Nadia - is that her name?

#120. Posted by: Paulo at January 22, 2009 2:30 PM

@ crispy seaplanes - ha ha, good acronym. i definitly want to know the answer to this mystery :)

#121. Posted by: anjou at January 22, 2009 2:32 PM

Ok so just a few things i wondering if people agree with me on:


1. the Rules and time lines can't change...but Ben was sure keamy wasn't going to kill his daughter but he did...then afterwards dosen't Ben say "he changed the rules" speaking of Widmore? SO clearly things can change maybe through people like Desmond or others.


2. Locke pulls a Ben - letting Ethan now he knows who he is, the same way Ben always seems to know who everyone elses with full details...anyone thing that is important????


3. Dr. Changs baby...my guess is Jim or Sun but the question still remians how did they get off the island and why?


4. reason it's just Oceanic six and not Walt is Walt was already gone when donkey wheel was turned for awhile, the island dosen't need Walt he is not a missing peice, or have we all forgotten maybe like Desmond...Walt was Special too right thats why they wanted the Boy?


5. do we think that Libby, Anna, Arst, or Charlie can run into Myles, Faraday or Charoltte with no issue.., since they wouldn't know who those people are anyway (just idea for cast members to make guest apperances with out being ghosts)


6. Faraday Needs a "Constant" -(his is Desmond) so he must jump like Desomnd from time to time and maybe that is why he is in the past with Dr. Chang?


Ok thats it - just wondering if you all had ideas about these things i'm thinking about after last night

#122. Posted by: Richard at January 22, 2009 2:33 PM

Hey all! Excellent to have LOST back again, and the great reviews. Thanks, Mac!
Some random thoughts I had:

1. Someone made a comment about all the meaningless redshirt deaths. However, keep in mind that the Island has a hand in who lives and dies. If the major characters (Sawyer, Julie, etc.) are important to the future of the island, they're not going to get speared on a flaming arrow anytime soon, are they?

2. I couldn't believe it when Locke started climbing the vines to get to the Nigerian drug plane. Didn't he learn anything when Boone died?

3. I find it hard to believe that throwing someone (faceup!) onto some kitchen knives will kill them instantaneously. But, hey, if we can believe in Black Smoke Monsters for an hour or two a week, we can believe in death via a bread knife.

4. Why does Dr. Chang's baby have to be anybody we know? I'm more apt to believe that this flashback is relevant in a different, more unexpected way. Although what that is, I'm not quite sure. And I did think the wife was Sun for a moment. Did the opening scene with the record remind anyone of the opening scene of Season 3 with Des in the hatch?

4. Where's Mikhail? Yeah, yeah, I know, blown up by the grenade he threw at Charlie. But if this guy can survive an electric fence, a harpoon through the chest, and heaven knows what else, I don't think a grenade will finish him off. Or maybe his final quest was to indirectly kill Charlie, and then the Island was done with him?

5. Ana-Lucia had strange looking bangs. Did she always have those? They seemed to be in her eyes a lot. And her 'Libby says hi' line took me by surprise. Whether Ana was actually talking to him or it was just one of Hurley's visions, I thought it was cute. I liked Hurlibby.

6. I loved Miles besting Sawyer at his nicknames game. It was pretty funny. And on a Sawyer-related note, I don't think he put a shirt on the entire two episodes. It was pretty great.

7. I wonder what the funeral home will do when they find that Locke's body is gone? And shouldn't that place have some kind of security system to prevent Jack from breaking in? It was weird that he could just break the handle, walk on in, and shove Locke into the back of Ben's van without attracting some kind of attention.

8. I, too, am wondering about Walt. Perhaps the island doesn't quite need him just yet. Maybe he will replace Locke, just as Locke replaced Ben? Huh...

9. I like the idea that the hand-cutter-offers were Rousseau's team. Although I did think that the guy who spoke was Karl, at first. I thought, "Wow, he wasn't a wuss after all!" But apparently he was.

That's all for now. Namaste!

#123. Posted by: Mrs. Ford at January 22, 2009 2:33 PM

One question that I do not think have been brought up yet. Is Claire time travelling in Jacob's cabin?

#124. Posted by: Craig at January 22, 2009 2:52 PM

We call these minor characters "Pawsox"

#125. Posted by: lostsox at January 22, 2009 2:56 PM

I originally named myself Skipper after Gilligan's Island...but now that the island is skipping in time; I'm going to claim that I had a premonition and knew it all along (not)!

Someone mentioned these two things earlier but I wanted to highlight them further:

When Faraday was talking about "rules" and how they couldn't be changed, the first thing I thought of was Ben's daughter and how Ben said "He changed the rules" when she was killed. Maybe she was alive in the future, so Ben expected that she could not be killed in the past.

Maybe the reason women can't give birth on the island is b/c it would change the future... if the kids weren't alive in the future. This would mean that 2004 is the past and we have been watching the island’s history this whole time.

Where was that light saber stick that Ben uses when he time travels…?

Ok, not the most articulate post, but that’s all I have time for I’m afraid.

#126. Posted by: Skipper at January 22, 2009 3:00 PM

@47. Posted by: LostedIt at January 22, 2009 10:06 AM
“I was left confused … not only weren't Sun and child but entirely irrelevant to the rest of the story.” :-) How long have you watched Lost? Just because it doesn’t seem relevant now, doesn’t mean it will stay that way.

@→ 84. Posted by: James at January 22, 2009 12:26 PM
“Oh, and Locke is only *mostly* dead.” Love the Princess Bride reference…

@→ 86. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 22, 2009 12:36 PM
“I thought Sun did say Ji Yeon(which is her daughter's name) when handing the picture to Kate. Did we see that it was a picture of a baby? The age difference with Aaron would be interesting.”
I agree she said Ji Yeon – and I also think she specified that this was a ‘baby’ picture (inferring that it wasn’t a current picture). Although why she wouldn’t show Kate a current picture is beyond me, but very suggestive…

@→ 94. Posted by: lardiea at January 22, 2009 1:02 PM
“3. Nobody has even mentioned the shirtless state of Sawyer… but I felt that the writers may have been gently mocking the female viewership with the gratuitous chest shots. Not that I minded... “
Not to mention his constant requests for a shirt to further point out his lack…

#127. Posted by: kristine at January 22, 2009 3:00 PM

about Faraday - when we see him in the Orchid station, I don't think that he was really there when it was being built. I think that was a flashback that we'll see in future eps. after all, the island will continue to move in time until the O6 come back... maybe it moved to that particular day and Faraday went in to find answers..?

#128. Posted by: Skipper at January 22, 2009 3:12 PM

@119 sumliber speculated:

>Easy to see this as Michelle Rodriguez' advice to remaining cast members for how to stay on the show.

But Michelle Rodriguez still IS on the show, as well as William Mapother (hooray!). And (briefly) Frogurt.

Death is no hinderance to continued employment on Lost.

#129. Posted by: Cecil at January 22, 2009 3:14 PM

In regard posts #115 and 116 . . .


Did anyone notice the picture on the table?

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


:-)

#130. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 3:16 PM

@Crispy Seaplanes...
My bad, not trying to steal anyone's thunder, but I just can't read all the posts, so I skim looking for what I'm interested in, or I put it out there and hope someone replies off my question. None of us are getting any awards for original ideas anyways, all kudos go to Lindeloff & Cuse!!

#131. Posted by: R at January 22, 2009 3:17 PM

Sorry, Crispy . . .


I see you were already there.

#132. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 3:18 PM

@101 welh - Re. Kate's lawyer visit...who's to say that those dudes were actually lawyers? Just a coupla Widmorons in JCPenny suits with a summons torn out of Mad Magazine. Their sole purpose? To get Kate's Happy Feet running again.

IOW...

1 Copy of Mad Magazine - $3.00
2 JCP-suited Flunkies - $1,000
Kate Hightailing it to Gilligan's Island...priceless

#133. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 22, 2009 3:23 PM

Thanks alot Crispy & Davidrh. I didn't realize the blog police were monitoring my posts!

See ya in another life brutha.

#134. Posted by: R at January 22, 2009 3:23 PM

and one more thing...

when the beach was attacted by the flaming arrows, my first reaction was this has to be 'the hostile's' or the others.

Even though we did see troops after, I would have never linked the troops with that sort of attack. I mean if I had machine guns, why would I use flaming arrows and not my more modern weapon. I would venture to bet furhter that the military folks though that Sawyer and Jules were the hostiles.

C

#135. Posted by: LOSTATWORK at January 22, 2009 3:28 PM

ok I have covered all 134 posts and no one mentioned… more than likely because it is completely pointless and surely something they stuck in just for fun!…. when Hurley's Dad was sitting down to eat his caviar and bologna sandwich the show was none other than EXPOSE! SURELY a huge hit on reruns circuit since the star was one of the not so lucky passengers of Oceanic 815!

#136. Posted by: katewannabe at January 22, 2009 3:36 PM

Remember when Horace appeared in Locke's dream to help Locke find Jacob's cabin. Do you think that Horace went back into time (or forward for that matter) and gave Locke that dream (that memory)...the same way that Faraday gave Desmond a dream (memory)?

#137. Posted by: Skipper at January 22, 2009 3:39 PM

It's great to have Lost back!

Maybe the reason that there was a young baby on the island is because whatever causes the mothers to die didn't happen until they finaly tapped into the power of the orchid station?

I also thought that the baby could be Miles or Sun. We know that at that time the Darma people could come and go. And we know that they didn't have any problems with stealing children. Didn't Sun's dad have business with Widemore?

Can't wait til next week.


#138. Posted by: LostMamacita at January 22, 2009 3:47 PM

Just want to say hi before I read everything. =]

Oh, and this episode was CRAZY AMAZING.

I don't know what all of you thought yet, but I thought it was worth the wait.

#139. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 3:50 PM

Does anyone else think Claire might be Jack's sister!!??!!??!!?


AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
I'm a genius!!

;)

#140. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 4:01 PM

re: #123 Mrs. Ford comments on opening scenes with Dr. Chang

Maybe the baby doesn't have anything to do with anything, but a mere baby on that island suggests some meaning. I do agree that Dr. Chang's introduction had yet to be made, so what better time than the beginning of Season 5...? I went back to re-watch and only saw up to the Orchid scene... Dr. Chang was alerted of the problem down below when he was filming Dharma Orientation video #2...Take 1. Dr. Chang said this was the Dharma station responsible for defending against the Hostiles...and then he was interrupted. So, can anyone help with the time Orientation #2 video would have been made...? Maybe that is the significance...being able to place the year...the grown baby's age now...?

#141. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 4:06 PM

OH. AND we saw FROGURT again!!!

But he died from being shot with a flame-flying arrow thingy. =[

Whatever, Steve's cooler anyway.

#142. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 4:07 PM

On the theory that Locke was bitten by the spider and not dead, I think that when we look back at the ending of Season 3, we'll see that Jack was reading Locke's obit and that he was hit by a car (?). He's clearly dead. And Jack being a doctor would know that.

But I theorize that returning him to the Island will make him alive. Or at least he will be alive as an active part of the story til the end. Maybe not in the now but in the time slivers they seem to be living inside of.

#143. Posted by: rinz at January 22, 2009 4:15 PM

re: #143

I thought Locke's obit read that he was found "hung" in an apartment...?

#144. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 4:18 PM

@144 - very possible. I can't remember. But dead nonetheless.

#145. Posted by: rinz at January 22, 2009 4:19 PM

I was very entertained by the show. But i would like to state that the Anna Lucia cameo was possibly the more pointless thing from the episode. Besides her looking hot, there was not point.

#146. Posted by: rinz at January 22, 2009 4:21 PM

Okay, sorry if I'm repeating anything but I want to say it before I forget. I only got upto post 9, so yeah.

1. I feel like Chang was alive a LONG time ago. Like in the early days of the Dharma Initiative. Ben came after the Dharma Initiative appeared to be there for quite some time.

2. During the second FLASH TO THE PAST, they show Yemi/Eko's heroin plane still smoking so it looks as though they went back to the same time they were before. In this case, Desmond shouldn't have been in the hatch, it should have been Kelvin, or someone else. Desmond was in the hatch with Kelvin for two years and he couldn't have been there for more than a year after that when 815 crashes.

I don't know if I'm making any sense.

#147. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 4:21 PM

Wow, it's good to be back reading your blog, Mac!
A couple of points (and this is before I've read thru the posts, so I apologize if they've been brought up already):

1. Could Mrs. Hawking be Faraday's mother? He told Des to look up his mother in Oxford, and I'm sure that she must be a character that we've seen already.

2. Could someone please remind me why Neil is called Frogurt?

Thanks!

#148. Posted by: Christina at January 22, 2009 4:22 PM

Another thing that has been bugging me... Everything that we see happening on the island seems as if it was not long after Sawyer swam up to the beach...the bright light...and then they have been "traveling" for the 2 episodes. Are the events at home (3 years later) happening simultaneously or have the island Losties been time traveling for 3 "stateside" years...waiting for the O6 to return...?

#149. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 4:26 PM

@ 137. Posted by: Skipper at January 22, 2009 3:39 PM "Remember when Horace appeared in Locke's dream to help Locke find Jacob's cabin. Do you think that Horace went back into time (or forward for that matter) and gave Locke that dream (that memory)...the same way that Faraday gave Desmond a dream (memory)?"

Good point. It could explain a lot dreams on the island.

Juts want to say how much I enjoy reading all your thoughts.

#150. Posted by: berkyo at January 22, 2009 4:29 PM

Hi Ho fellow LOST freaks!

A big relief to me was that it appears no bunnies were harmed in the making of this incredible season opener.

Hold on folks, cause it looks like we're gonna need a bigger donkey wheel... WGNABDW.

#151. Posted by: BunnyLover at January 22, 2009 4:30 PM

Richard tells Locke that he will not know him next time, because Locke goes back to a time even before Locke's Birth. The time they meet is Pre -1950s way back to when Richard came to the Island (Maybe with the Black Rock). So Richard knows he will be visited, but back then he will not believe Lock until he shows the compass and he hears the story. It must be Richard's old compass from the old days. This is fascinating, that's why Richard visits John in the hospital when born-- he's not sure if it is him when born as someone has said (adopted, a mother named. . . ). That's why he might have though the youg Ben was "him." And overall, Locke must be Jacob somewhere in the future, stuck. Knowing everything, but needs help.

#152. Posted by: bus said at January 22, 2009 4:32 PM

#31 PiecesofArzt mentioned that maybe Richard Alpert is from the Black Rock, which could have been a pirate ship, so THAT would explain the eyeliner! Maybe he's a relative of Jack Sparrow!

#153. Posted by: Christina at January 22, 2009 4:37 PM

@110 mac: It seemed like producers told us everything can be explained by science when everyone was saying that Lost was just purgatory.

In all reality, I'm sure someone can come up with something "scientific" to give a theory about purgatory.

Producers should have kept their mouths shut, imo.

Mac: how about threaded comments a la digg.com?

#154. Posted by: schiano at January 22, 2009 4:40 PM

I am repeatedly amazed at how little people pay attention/understand this show. The fact that someone would suggest Pierre Chang's son is Jin is beyond me.

Yes clearly it is Daniel at the construction of the Dharma Donkey Wheel. There needs to be someone on the island who knows how to work that crazy thing.

What Daniel was looking for in his journal was "If anything should happen, Desmond Hume will be my constant."

I believe that visiting Desmond not only let him send a message to the losties off the island but it cured him of his memory loss problem much like talking to penny cured des's memory loss in the constant. Charlotte seems to be developing memory loss because of her "being-lost-in-time-itis"

I believe the attakees were dharma and i also think that the losties are going to have a helping hand in the purge. That is why richard was like "the next time you see me i wont recognize you"


#155. Posted by: shawzie at January 22, 2009 4:40 PM

questions/thoughts...
When Charlotte mentions not remembering her mother's maiden name, does she ever mention it? could Hawkings be her mom?
Ben seems to have lots of connections...fake cops that arrest Hurley? And I have to watch again the scene with Sun and Kate...the pic of the baby is a newborn. Wouldn't Sun show a pic of a 3 year old?

#156. Posted by: Steve at January 22, 2009 4:46 PM

Based on screen caps of the pendulum, I think Mrs. Hawkings believes the island is located at the intersection point of the international date line and the equator (lying between Micronesia and Polynesia). I don't recall if anyone calculated the island location when the freighter left Fiji to determine where the island was located prior to the move. I suspect the physical location moved at least 1000 miles.

Why she thinks the island will stay in that position for 70 hours when the time skips (such as the Hatch implosion to not found) came within an hour of each event.

#157. Posted by: welh at January 22, 2009 4:50 PM

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

Guess who's back... back again...

Great episode! Its about time... hopefully, we don't have to wait a year inbetween seasons anymore!

Mr. Naysayer

-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

#158. Posted by: Mr Naysayer at January 22, 2009 4:57 PM

I LOVE the idea that Goodspeed visited Locke via time travel and not just a "dream"... His nose bled while he was speaking to Locke, and he seemed to 'skip' around a bit (he repeats himself, the tree he cut down is upright again, etc). A very cool notion! Perhaps this is also how we've seen other ghosts (Yemi, Christian, Claire etc- though with Yemi and Christian we've been operating under the assumption that they were dead prior to crashing on the island).

On another note... remeber when Charlotte told Daniel last season "Would it make any sense if I told you I was looking for the place I was born?" and Miles also makes a comment to her about how she "Spent so much time trying to get back here"? If ANYONE is Dr, Chang's baby (and I'm not saying anyone we know is), then Charlotte should get some serious consideration.

#159. Posted by: scush at January 22, 2009 5:00 PM

Regular reader, sometimes poster....wonderful to hear from you again, Mac. It was hard to keep on top of all the posts, but one of the recurring themes here is Ben bad/good. I am not convinced Ben is bad anymore, just that he has a single, focused purpose. But Sun....what happened to Sun?? I think Widmore is bad and anyone in cahoots with Widmore is bad. I don't have a good feeling about Sun. I read a few posts about Jin being alive. I skipped the review hour because I didn't have time to sit through 3 hours of Lost last night, so I'll have to read and watch to understand why you think Jin might be alive. Someone up above had a chuckle at Cheech eating caviar on his sandwich, LOL...I picked up on that too. One thing I don't get though is how Ben was able to get off the island if he was supposed to die when he made the island jump/turned the wheel. Datzit for now, hope to be a regular poster.

#160. Posted by: silkyway at January 22, 2009 5:07 PM

Locke is not really dead. I was trying to recall one of the strange conversations between Ben and Jcak. They are in the hotel and Ben tells Jack he needs to move Locke to somewhere "safe". Jack asked him, "Safe...he's dead, isn't he?" And Ben pauses and replies that he will see him in 6 hours... I'm almost certain Locke is not really dead and Ben is in on it.

#161. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 5:22 PM

#155 shawzie: thanks for reiterating some of the obvious.

#123 Mrs Ford and #141 boodle and others guessing who the baby is: I think the fact that Mr Chang has a baby is very significant. In #77, I posited that something happened AFTER that baby was born, causing the mothers and babies to die.

I'm sure most of you have noted that the timeline for the opening scene is in the 70's, based on decor and the LP playing, which is Shotgun Willy by Willy Nelson (1973). (ILBLXX #147: is that what you mean by "a long time ago?)

Ben = still creepy
Frogurt = annoying
Shirtless Sawyer = yummy

#162. Posted by: lovelost at January 22, 2009 5:23 PM

Anyone else suspicious that Henry Gale is not who he says he is???

#163. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 5:24 PM

Hi all
It's good to read you all again. I was lurking at work & now for some comments.

-Some say that Jin may be Chang's son. Don't we already know that Jin is a fisherman's son & that's why Mr Paik didn't approve of him?

- I thought Faraday's comment re the zodiak still being with the island might be key. He said something like, "It's still here. It must have been inside the perimeter." So, what/who else might have been inside the perimeter? The looking glass station? Was Mikhail inside? Or did he get blown up?

-If Dharma stopped digging before they got to the wheel cavern, then who put the ladder & lantern down there? Who moved the island previously & thus can't return to it?

#164. Posted by: cookie at January 22, 2009 5:28 PM

What was the item (book maybe) wrapped in a blanket(?) that Ben removed from behind the ventilation grate in the motel???

#165. Posted by: mtncbn at January 22, 2009 5:34 PM

I just thought of something.

If what we see is going on on the island actually went on 3 years ago from current time from the things we see going on off-island, shouldn't Desmond have remembered his "memory" 3 years ago? (Because that's when Daniel technically knocked on the door)... I think.

#166. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 5:36 PM

My thoughts:
The living losties are time constant and the island is skipping like a record needle. Because the losties are within the "radius", they are along for the gut wrenching/nose driping ride. Whomever has died on the island has become afixed to the island and subject to the time skips.

Claire died on the island when the house blew up. Therefore she can only exist on the island in a time anomily. Christian revealed this to his daughter and that is why she left Aaron behind for (non-dead)Kate to raise.

Hurley will probabaly end up being the big kahuna of the island. (Besides the obvious) he will be the one of the OA6 that stabalizes the island's skipping.

Desmond can interact with Faraday because he is his "constant", as revealed last season. If he had talked to Sawyer he would not have remembered it in the future.

The Austalian that wanted to cut off Juliet's hand is the one and only Widmore.

So many thoughts - so little time.....



#167. Posted by: jst at January 22, 2009 5:40 PM

This is probably not relevant at all but did anyone notice that the dent above Ben's lip is usually at a 45 degreeish angle to the right, but halfway through the episode it became straight?

Yes, I notice these things about him.

Plastic surgery maybe?

#168. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 5:45 PM

BOGUS ALERT! BOGUS ALERT!


I just want to acknowledge that Posts #140 and #163 ARE NOT posts written by the original davidrh.(Composer/conductor at davidrholsinger.com)

Obviously, I am going to have to pull a RedNeckMan and change my moniker to something else to stop this infringement upon my commentary access.

Another option is to bring my twin brother, DarrellAnn, out of hiding and put out a contract on this imposter.
This could be worse than FLAMING ARROWS!

I shall take a new name under advisement and get back to you, fellow bloggers.

#169. Posted by: davidrh at January 22, 2009 5:51 PM

Jack's phone number on Kate's cell:
323-555-0156

3+2+3 = 8
5+5+5 = 15

815

0156...????????????

#170. Posted by: boodle at January 22, 2009 5:59 PM

→ 148. Posted by: Christina
Could someone please remind me why Neil is called Frogurt?

While Neil was helping Bernard build the SOS sign, he told Bernard that he used to make yogurt. I don't recall who specifically started calling him Frogurt.

#171. Posted by: lovelost at January 22, 2009 6:12 PM

Thanks, Lovelost!

#172. Posted by: Christina at January 22, 2009 6:19 PM

@148 Christina requested:

>2. Could someone please remind me why Neil is called Frogurt?

At some point he told the other Losties he worked at a Frogurt (FROzen yoghURT) stand. We didn't see this, just heard about it. Thus was the nickname acquired.

#173. Posted by: Cecil at January 22, 2009 6:38 PM

Did anyone connect the gun shot to Locke's leg with the "cramp" he had when he and Boone reached the plane? Why is the island not jumping to the arctic circle? I believe that Widmore was actually on the island and moved it himself, therefore taking himself off the island. Maybe that's why he's so obsessed with finding it. Miles did say Widmore had found it 20 years ago. As far as Michael is concerned, he was allowed to leave. The other group escaped. It does seem strange that Sun showed a baby picture to Kate. Something's up there. Does Frank also need to return to the island? Who is Penny's real father and where is her mother? A whole slew of new questions and we still don't know what happened to Claire or who is Jacob!

#174. Posted by: pebspostal at January 22, 2009 6:40 PM

@155 shawzie observed:

>Yes clearly it is Daniel at the construction of the Dharma Donkey Wheel. There needs to be someone on the island who knows how to work that crazy thing.

The 'sonogram' clearly showed the Frozen Donkey Wheel (TM) embedded in the rock ahead of the Dharma construction. Wherever it came from (and my bet is out of thin air) it definitely pre-existed Dharma.

#175. Posted by: Cecil at January 22, 2009 6:42 PM

im kind of disappointed that no one commented on my "Locke in the Butcher Shop" comment. i would even be satisfied with a, "hey grimgravyX, that is the stupidest specualtion ever" :]

nonetheless,
i love this friggin blog.
such intellectually stimulating posts, its unbelievable.

you guys make the week after an episode worth having.

#176. Posted by: grimgravyX at January 22, 2009 6:46 PM

First, thanks, mac, for a great review & congrats on the impending arrival! As the parent of a child who didn't believe in sleeping more than 90 minutes at a time until she was almost three, I can sympathize w/the lack of sleep issues...

Well. I was left lukewarm by both these episodes. welh #101 articulated many of the problems I found—just too much doesn't make real-world sense, never mind scientific sense. Then again, my head is already spinning (although fortunately my nose is not bleeding) from classes starting this month, so perhaps I just missed a lot. And I missed the first three minutes, so therefore I missed the entire Dr. Chang homelife story, which appears from all of the commentary to be quite significant.

Did anyone else think that the guy who was in charge of digging & who talked to Dr. Chang was an all-in-one-piece Dr. Arzt?

I seriously doubt that the two guys who visited Kate are really lawyers. Whoever hired them knew just how to push Kate's buttons.

Debbie #66 raises a good point. Richard was obviously very unhappy that Locke selected the knife. Could Locke's selection of the knife rather than the compass tell Richard that Locke has not learned his lesson, so to speak? Or hasn't had a memory activated, or something like that?

One of the things that has been repeatedly stressed is that time/the future cannot be changed. I can't remember if this has been discussed before in other threads here, but is this based in real-world scientific theory, or just LOST-based "theory"? There are certainly plenty of books/movies about people changing the future by changing the past...

#177. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 22, 2009 6:47 PM

By the way. I REALLY LIKE PiecesOfArzt's comment (#35):
"Maybe Ben knows that one of the Oceanic Six is the island's constant but he doesn't know which one so he is trying to bring them all back."

Brilliant. That could totally be it. AND it would make a lot of sense.

#178. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 6:52 PM

ALSO, congratulations Mac! Locke's a good name. Actually, anything that does not involve Jack, Shephard, Matthew, or Fox would be a good name. Actually, I can't really say that since those names are so common.

Anyway, great review... as always. =]

#179. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 6:57 PM

Larry Niven has a syllogism about why Time Travel (at least time travel that can change the past) Is Impossible:

1. Either time travel is possible, or it isn't.

2. It it isn't, no problem, if it is possible, then either you can travel to the past or you can't.

3. If you can't, no problem, if you can, then someone will go back. An infinite number of someones, given that time streches immeasuravbly far into the future.

4. Either travellers to the past can change the past, or they can't (perhaps being only unseen observers).

5. If they can't, no problem. If they can, then they *will* change the past, repeatedly, until someone creates a change that prevents time travel from every being discovered. Then all changes cease.

Ipso facto, there can be no time travel that changes the past.

#180. Posted by: Cecil at January 22, 2009 6:59 PM

At the very beginning it looked like one of the men who was involved in the drilling was danny picket- you know, the man in season 3 who wanted to kill sawyer after his woman got shot and eventually killed by sun on the boat.

#181. Posted by: tpsf at January 22, 2009 7:00 PM

Mr_Naysayer!!!!!

"Life is nothing but a filler between episodes of LOST." became even more true during this extremely long hiatus.

#182. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 7:02 PM

For everyone who thinks Frogurt looks familiar:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0923490/

#183. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 7:07 PM

@167 jst: "The Austalian that wanted to cut off Juliet's hand is the one and only Widmore."

Yes yes yes! I thought so to. He said what are you doing on MY island, which relates to him saying that Ben stole the island from him. It would also explain how he knew about the Black Rock and subsequently bought the ship's log at the auction.

Another thought, Sun once said that she blamed 2 people for Jin's death. I thought it was Ben and Jack, but now it's pretty clear that it is Ben and Kate. Does not bode well for Kate!

#184. Posted by: flom at January 22, 2009 7:22 PM

People seem to be convinced that Ben was behind the attack on Sayid/Hurley at the safehouse, simply due to the fact that the attackers seemed to be trying to capture or incapacitate them in order to facilitate their return to the island. While this is certainly feasible, I postulate that it could have been Widmore's people attempting to capture Sayid in order to find out where Ben is.

As to Locke's (Un)Dead/Alive status, when previous comment stated the obvious about embalming the corpse, who is to say that "Hoffs/Drawlar" is really a funeral parlor, and not just a front for Ben or the Others?

Daniel being on the island during the Orchid construction could be easily explained by another flash yet to come. I suggest that the Dharma Initiative will play a more active role in this season's events. After all, we still are not sure precisely what "The Incident" entailed. All that has been explained was that the button and the failsafe key were placed in the Swan station due to "The Incident".

And finally, I am definitely in the "Hawking is Daniel's Mum" camp.

LOST is heroin. I can't wait until I can fix again.

#185. Posted by: |Lorien| at January 22, 2009 7:56 PM

The doctor from Dharma initiative called himself Dr.Marvin Kandel in the beginning of this weeks episode. On the intro leadup he calls himself Dr. Halifax.
Also odd sound effects that never were part of the show, Lockes knife grinds metal to metal when withdrawing from his leather sheath, strange noises when removing the bullet from his leg.

#186. Posted by: Jeff Maas at January 22, 2009 8:23 PM

@152. Posted by: busThe time they meet is Pre -1950s way back to when Richard came to the Island (Maybe with the Black Rock). So Richard knows he will be visited, but back then he will not believe Lock until he shows the compass and he hears the story. It must be Richard's→

How does Richard know what time it will be next? Do you think there is some pattern to the time jumps? What about the pendulum in Mrs. Hawkings basement? Can they figure out when the jumps are and where?

#187. Posted by: berkyo at January 22, 2009 8:25 PM

Candle, Wickman, Halliwax.

Personally, I like his pseudonyms better than the real name. I mean, come on. "Let's name the asian 'Chang'"


#188. Posted by: |Lorien| at January 22, 2009 8:32 PM

@165. Posted by: mtncbn What was the item (book maybe) wrapped in a blanket(?) that Ben removed from behind the ventilation grate in the motel???

Hey, I forgot about that! Yes, What was it?

Going to rewatch now and remember everything I read here.....;)

#189. Posted by: berkyo at January 22, 2009 8:42 PM

The woman in the butcher shop looked like the Other who got accidentally shot in the boat ( I think by Sun) when Sun, Jin and Sayid did their secret sail around the island. I remember her husband was really p'od and wanted to kill Sawyer while he and Kate were exhibits in the zoo. Must have been a lover of a good porterhouse!!!
The oracle lady is in LA - or close by - but Farraday's mother is in Oxford so I do not believe they are the same person.

#190. Posted by: weepict at January 22, 2009 9:19 PM

Aaahhh. Life is good. A double helping of Lost, an insightful recap by Mac, and hundreds of thought-provoking comments, with MIF leading off and RNM batting cleanup. (Oh, wait. That last part hasn’t happened yet. I’m skipping ahead.)

Why are some folks skippers and some folks not? Was Skipper’s original Blog handle really prophetic, or did she return to last season to change it after seeing this episode? Can we ever trust each other again? Especially with bogus DRHs on the loose! ARGHHH!

Aside from Cap’n Dick’s Time-Resistant Eyeliner by Maybelline, I’m having trouble understanding what/who moves and why and what/who stays and why when the sky turns purple. The 815ers are holding on for dear life as the island slides up and down the string of time, but they’re always in their own present. (For example, they don’t revert to children when the island jumps backward in time 30 years.) Does this apply to everyone currently alive on the island? And dead people stay fixed to their pasts with no changing memories to alter events? If this is true, a person could definitely run into themselves in another timeline. And so Richard and his compatriots are the undead, the natives, the exception to the rule. But why? A visit to the temple seems to be in order.

I agree that Des would have opened the hatch for Sawyer, given enough time to suit up. I don’t think I like Desmond’s automatic memory reboot. That plot device could get old quick. We had an exhausting and endless discussion about this last season regarding whether Des would or should remember his meeting with Daniel and Eloise in the Oxford lab, as Des relived his timeline before arriving on the island again. The “course-correction” seemed to necessitate memory loss (and prolific nosebleeds) to address this issue. So, if Des is the exception to the rule of “no paradox,” why does he have to forget? Why can’t he remember everything from every time period (aside from the fact that he would go insane)? Why can he only remember what Daniel, his constant, prompts him to remember?

Sure, we saw Daniel in the Dharma timeframe, but I bet all the other “skippers” were around, too. I don’t think Daniel traveled back separate from them. He was the one who probably volunteered to infiltrate to gain access to the wheel. (Good call on the x-ray looking like a sonogram, Cecil! I thought the same.)

Obviously, the island will stop skipping upon return of the O6. If only as a result of the sheer mass of Hurley landing on it.

I thought the significance of the Chang baby was to reinforce that it was once possible to bear children on the island. Leading up to the revelation of why it is not possible now (which I believe will be revealed to be Ben’s fault somehow. At least his latent guilt seems to point us in that direction.) I think Charlotte was born on the island, but not Miles (or Jin or Sun! Their fathers are both prominently featured in previous backstories, and it would needlessly derail the plot to have them island-born and adopted. IMO) As to whether Charlotte IS the Chang baby, maybe she was born to Annie (who died in childbirth) and adopted by the Changs? I don’t have a strong opinion on this yet.

Ninja-badass Sayid rocks my world. More please. And death by dishwasher was awesome. I’ll be washing my knives pointy-side-down from now on. Thanks for the PSA, Darleton.

Bickering Sawyer and Juliet have a zillion times more chemistry than Jack and Juliet. Although who wouldn’t have chemistry with that man? Especially shirtless with his pants falling off. It was even hot when he slapped Dan.

I like that Hurley sees dead people, and I like that any of the former cast can reappear unexpectedly. That being said, I thought Ana-Lucia’s cameo was gratuitous and annoying.

When I rewatch this weekend, I’ll be looking for the possibility of Ben mowing the lawn and Locke in the butcher shop.

Ben is bad. Very bad. What makes him great, is that you can still question it.

Sun is out to get Kate and Jack. Her eyes were glittering with potential revenge in that scene. And the “baby” pic of Ji Yeon is very suspicious. Where is this kid? Did someone take her hostage? Did Sun hide her away? Why no recent pic?

Sorry, I’m going to make this long post even longer with shout-outs, because I missed you all everybody! Greetings Meg, The Other Other, Frogurt, boodle, weepict, DRH (the original only), Sillygirl0630, PiecesofArzt, BEMH, RNM, GatorGal, mapache, ransomjackson, LostedIt, vacc, welh, berkyo, Crispy, Cecil, Scooby-Dude, Skipper, ilbxx, Bunny, Naysayer, mtncbn, pebs(gone)postal, and Alaïs. Sorry if I missed anybody. Hope to get to know the new poster names. Nomination for best new handle: HotPocket23. Hope you’re wearing your sleeve. It’s cold out :)

#191. Posted by: Clementine at January 22, 2009 9:46 PM

Maybe when Desmond turned the key, he was also "locking" everyone on the island. I think by that time Michael and Walt were already on the little boat thingy.

I just remembered, my favorite part was when Ben came to get Hurley and Hurley threw the hot pocket at him. The face Ben made at him was PRICELESS. Haha.

#192. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 22, 2009 10:12 PM

Long time reader, first time poster. By far....this is the BEST community to share all that is lost. Thanks for lettin' me lurk.

After reading the glorious postings and re-watching...three things to ponder:

1. I found it very interesting to hear Anna Lucia say to Hugo, "Do NOT get arrested." At first I thought it was only by 'her', but now I'm wondering if Anna knew a little something about the "police" (Widmore?) that would end up arresting Hugo. Who will actually turn out to have been the 'safer' choice? Ben? Police? Widmore?
2. Did anyone note the price of gas outside the station that Hurley/Syiad and then Kate were in? $3.22....WOW!
3. When Ben is in the meat market he asked if Gabriel and Jeffrey had checked in. Are these the 'lawyers' who visited Kate? The Police arresting Hurley? Hmmmmmmm........ Only six more days :)

#193. Posted by: chitownteach at January 22, 2009 10:30 PM

@mac #110 who said "Lost is absolutely -- without any shred of doubt -- a science fiction show"

mac, I think Carlton was responding to you during a post S5 premiere interview when he declared that "Lost is a character based adventure show"

Some other things Damon and Carlton touched on in the interview - which you can watch at tinyurl.com/9rqhgp:

- The first episodes are a template, a set of "rules" for upcoming episodes
which they claim are even better!

- Desmond's awareness of future events in "Flashes" and "The Constant" were seeds they planted to be implemented this season.

- Their stance on paradox is that everything we've seen on the show is destined to happen (i.e. the O6 leaving the Island) and they won't create a situation where someone goes back and changes it. They want the audience to believe the stakes are real for the characters.

- That aside, they concede that the big question for this year is "Can you change a past event and thus alter the future?". They say that the characters will have an opportunity to test Faraday's claim that they can't change anything that already happened - and they say emphatically that it is only a theory.
They say season 5 is an exploration of the question "Is Faraday right?" and is a big part of the fun in the storytelling this year.

#194. Posted by: vacc at January 22, 2009 10:34 PM

Hi all, great to be back and GRAA Mac.

Farraday said that it 's either the island OR them that are skipping. I'm guessing he hasn't figured out which yet.

My guess is that it's the island and not them. This would explain why the zodiac boat Farrady was on is staying with them. The island and all that was on it when they arrived (meaning crashed) is skipping relative to their timeline (2004).

That's why they remember and not the others

This is the main difference with what Desmond went through when HE was skipping through his own timeline

I've just re-read myself and my head hurts!!!

I think it's time to give my brain a break.

Like Cecil, I'll try to make it work and then I'll be back.

P.S. Any body else notice that Alpert had to use glasses to pull the bullet out of Locke's leg. First sign of him ageing...don't know what ir means yet though...Damn another nosebleed!!!!

#195. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at January 22, 2009 11:03 PM

One of my favorite parts was Hurley's little smile of victory at Ben after he ran to the police.

"...Dude... I got away from your mind tricks... you didn't beat me... you actually didn't beat me..."

Go Hurley!

By the way, if you have never watched the best Frogurt / Hurley performance ever, its on the Mobisoides ("missing pieces #12 ")on the ABC website.

http://tinyurl.com/2ak5nt (click on the 12th one)

It's definitely worth the time to pull it up. (He's not nearly as annoying as he was in this season opener)

#196. Posted by: Frogurt (Crisp) at January 22, 2009 11:24 PM

Rewatch notes:

Surprised that Richard wears glasses.

What's it do? It points north. Caught this first time thru as an Airplane nod.

After the Richard visit, Locke, and I presume the rest of the skippers, returned to previous skip, as the drug plane engine was still smoking. Late 1990's I read above.

Some of the flaming arrows looked more javelin sized.

I think Jack shot Sayid up with adrenaline - it ended with -aline' anyhow.

What's with the hatch like submarine door in the basement of the church where Ms Hawking and Ben are?

#197. Posted by: mtncbn at January 22, 2009 11:26 PM

@146/Rinz: Ana Lucia's appearance shows that Hurley is still hallucinating or seeing the dead (ala Miles?). Either way she did still look good!

#198. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 22, 2009 11:47 PM

mac, congrats my friend!

#199. Posted by: laura at January 23, 2009 12:12 AM

thanks, Clementine!

200!

we will all be able to think more clearly in the morning, good night everyone :)

#200. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 12:42 AM

Best quote ever, made me lol:

'I need a cool code name'.- Hugo.

#201. Posted by: McNulty at January 23, 2009 1:38 AM

It's great reading all these comments. Some of you remember all these details of previous episodes that I usually have forgotten by the time the next episode rolls along, let alone four years later. :)

Btw, I like the theory in #69.

#202. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 23, 2009 1:58 AM

@167

Why do you assume that's a young Widmore?

#203. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at January 23, 2009 7:10 AM

To validate the "no paradoxe" theory and address the "time issues" welh has put forward, here are a few mre thoughts:

-Let us not forget that you can't change the "finality" of a past event, but you can change how it happens and force a course correction (ex. Charlie's death).

-Also you can't change the past, but the future is fair game. And when i say the future I mean in relation to the original timeline. This would explain why Richard knew where to find locke because this was the future for Locke. So in a "future" past skip (wow!!!) Locke willl explain to Richard that he was (or for grammer's sake, will be) shot by Ethan when the plane crashed (crashes) and that hel willl have to find him and take the bullet out.

-Same thing with what Farraday did. By meeting Desmond in the past he added a memory to Desmond's mind in the FUTURE

That's all for now, I have to head off to work....and put some Kleenex in my nostril to stop this nosebleed!


#204. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at January 23, 2009 7:31 AM

WOW, so much to assimilate. here are my two cents:

1. I think Charlotte (ginger, ha!) is the daughter of the crazy hand cutter. She was born on the island and it seems like craziness must run in the family.

2. Ethan didn't recognize Locke because he hadn't met him yet. (btw - He's BACK!)

3. Miles is the Candle Baby.

4. Children could be born on the island before Dharma started messing with the drilling. It must have triggered it. Children being born would mess up the time travel paradox.

5. I like Ben taking orders.

6. Good point about them using darts. I think just as Ben and Charles can't kill each other, Charles knows not to kill one of the O6. He wants that island!

7. Why the hand? Isn't that for stealing and not showing up unannounced on an island?

8. Where in Hades is Claire?

9. Sun SO blames Kate.

10. Did you notice that Vincent is back with all the red shirts?

That's it for now.

Namaste!

#205. Posted by: EthansGirl at January 23, 2009 7:37 AM

@ Scooby-Dude - 90
"From the Family Guy episode "Baby Not on Board" this fall, the family discusses where they want to go on vacation and Meg suggests the island from Lost. Stewie advises against it. Why? Because of Matthew Fox’s "heavy breathing.""

@ LostedIt - 95
"ilovebenjaminlinus is out there somewhere right now laughing her head off feeling quite vindicated"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! YES. I still can't stop laughing. See! I'm not the only one who hates the way Jack/Matthew Fox breathes!!! Vindicated is the perfect word to describe what I'm feeling right now. =]

#206. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 23, 2009 8:28 AM

I am going to go against the masses and admit that I am a Jack fan!! GASP!! I have to pay more attention and take notice, but I don't really notice the "breathing"...

About the "book" Ben took out of the hotel vent...I re-watched and it is darn near impossible to make out what that is. Guess we will (or won't) learn about that later on in the season.

Also, I am convinced that the "police" that staked out Hurley's house and arrested him are not real police. When they first visited the house and Cheech looked out the window at them going back to their car, I noticed that maybe the car was a Mercedes. (You get a glimpse of the emblem on the front of the car.) I don't think the LAPD detectives do stake outs in Mercedes...

#207. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 8:33 AM

The whole Desmond remembering Faraday business makes sense to me.

If some guy came to you while pushing this button in this hatch alone, and says stuff about helicopters and people in danger you'd be like what the heck is this guy talking about. Back then it means nothing to him. So he forgets about it....it's meaningless. But x years later, waking up in his yacht he remembered this moment and now it makes sense in context.

#208. Posted by: Matt S at January 23, 2009 9:13 AM

--R
Please don't feel I'm policing anyone--it's all good...
You certainly weren't the only one bringing up the possibility of Miles being Chang's son. It was just the repetitiveness of reading these posts reminded me of a past blog where everyone kept asking if anyone noticed a certain picture. I was merely referencing that to hopefully humorous benefit for all of us who've been reading a long time.
I wasn't the one who originally had the idea and so I have no reason to be offended or feel protective of it. And my intention is certainly not to make anyone feel excluded or chastised.
That's one of the nice things here is its like a little Lost community and everyone is welcome. The more thoughts and ideas we have shared, the more fun it is.
I was just funnin' wit ya...

#209. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 23, 2009 9:44 AM

Another question I have... When Faraday emerged from the jungle onto the beach after talking with Desmond, Sawyer or Juliet (forget which one) mentions that he has been gone for 3 hours. What was he doing for 3 hours?

Also, when Miles comes back to the beach with the boar... How...what...?!! He tells the group that it is okay to eat the dead boar...it's only been dead 3 hours... How...what...? Any ideas...?

#210. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 9:49 AM

@ 197 - mtncbn

maybe that hatch is the conduit to which ben (and eyelinerman/others/tom for his evening rondevous in his pad)...go from the island to the real world. Remember the people used to take a sub to go from one place to another so maybe that is the hatch where they go?

Also, wasnt the place where the oracle was in, a church? so that makes me think about - man of science man of faith??? .. a church being a front for the science going on in the back.. Very interesting

C

#211. Posted by: lostatwork at January 23, 2009 9:56 AM

Sorry if someone said this, Just so many post, but is it possible that the O6 are the island's constant? RE: Dez & Penny.

#212. Posted by: T-Spoon at January 23, 2009 10:20 AM

No! We need more details in the review Mac!

#213. Posted by: Boozy at January 23, 2009 10:25 AM

About the flaming arrows--I think they are from a different group than the guys with guns who apprehend Juliet and Sawyer. Didn't some of the earliest season one attacks by the Others on the Losties come in the form of flaming arrows. I can't remember...like maybe before they moved to the caves for awhile.

185--Lorien
Thanks for brining up the Incident which was the given reason for pressing the Swan button. I was trying to remember that. I think it's pretty clear now that the Incident has something to do with someone breaching the wall to the Donkey Wheel chamber and that it cause dproblems--among which the inability to have babies.

Also going to 185 Lorien mentioning the possibility that Hoffs-Drawler may not be a real funeral home...how else would ben know to find Jack there unless he'd lured him somehow. Also someone brought up the obit saying Bentham was found hanging and cited that as evidence that Locke really is dead. However news reports also said that Flight 815 is at the bottom of the ocean. So news reports aren't necessarily accurate. I'm still thinking Locke might be alive there but I also like the idea that if he's dead then he'll be alive again on the island.

Also like the idea that some of the ghosts we've seen are somehow time travellers. Maybe in dying they can now exist outside of time...

#214. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 23, 2009 10:32 AM

@207/boodle: In an upscale neighborhood like the one The Reyes' live in a Mercedes probably does not stand out as much as a Ford Taurus might. It could be plausible the cops have high end cars.

#215. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at January 23, 2009 10:36 AM

One quick note - If Richard Alpert is tied to the Island and doesn't time travel with everyone else, how was he able to seemingly traverse time and space to go visit baby Locke? There have been other occasions when he's been on-off the island. I think eye-liner is much more crucial to the storyline than we believe, and he could possibly be the "first" to be on the island or something to that affect.

#216. Posted by: boozy at January 23, 2009 10:43 AM

Hey all, I think I just found a key clue to the story about what's going to happen with the Locke storyline with them bringing him back to the island.

Go to the missing pieces shorts and look at the one called "So it begins". http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index

You can see there that Jack's dad, though he came to the island in a casket, seems to be fine and dandy and furthermore seems to know exactly what is going on. I think this is key. If they bring Locke to the island, exactly as Jack's dad came there dead in a box, he would/could apparently suddenly come back to life. That being said, there's no proof that Jack's dad nor Locke actually constitute "dead dead" (could really be dead or some spider poison or who knows what). But I think this little "missing piece" might prove to be the basis for what will happen with Locke at some point in a future episode.

#217. Posted by: LostedIt at January 23, 2009 11:12 AM

I cannot believe that no one commented on Abadan returning. When the "LAPD" came to hurley's house didn't you all notice that one of the cops was a tall bald black man that looked a lot like Abadan? They probably didn't show him close up because he's too busy on Fringe but it was him.

Also the point about Richard not remembering Locke is that the time travel may go before Locke's birth so at that time Richard never even met Locke Teenager. makes sense right?

Also I thought Daniel met Desmond when Daniel was in school which would have been prior to when Desmond went to the Island so why didn't Desmond recognize Daniel?

#218. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at January 23, 2009 11:16 AM

@218 ALEX ANGEL - I noticed that as well, but I figured when Hurley didn't react that I was mistaken. Remember, Hurley met this same person while he was in the psych ward. If he then showed up at his house I'd think Hurley would get more than a little suspicious and certainly not surrender to him or his associates later. We could both be right that it was him or it could simply be a case of two similar-looking actors. The way this show seems to purposely want to mislead us into unwarranted conclusions/associations/mistaken identities either or both could be 100% correct.

#219. Posted by: LostedIt at January 23, 2009 11:23 AM

Hello everyone! I wanted to point out that the first post was not in fact the real meg. There is an imposter meg out there.

I have a lot to say, but I want to wait until after viewing the showagain this evening.

It's great to be back...:)

#220. Posted by: meg at January 23, 2009 11:23 AM

"Fair enough" Crispy. BTW, is that name a Dharma brand of cereal of an after dinner dessert??

Good point Alex. I saw the dude and thought is was Abaddon but kinda forget about after two hours of info overloaded my noggin.

P.S. I'm sure most of you already check it out, but along with Mac's great stuff, Doc Jensens' recaps on EW.com are insanely awewsome too.

#221. Posted by: R at January 23, 2009 11:24 AM

fake davidrh, fake meg--what is this world coming to?
Not sure if I should be paranoid with the imposters lurking out there or offended that no one pretended to be me!

#222. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 23, 2009 11:28 AM

R--Ask anyone around here--Crispy Seaplanes is everyone's favorite Dharma brand cereal. So are you a relative of Star Trek's Q?

#223. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 23, 2009 11:32 AM

I am just honored that someone cared enough to wait up that late and cry false "MIF"...and using my name. sniff, sniff...you all are like family!

Question: Is it worth it to watch the hour show before?

#224. Posted by: meg at January 23, 2009 11:55 AM

@#204: "-Let us not forget that you can't change the "finality" of a past event, but you can change how it happens and force a course correction (ex. Charlie's death)."

Now what does that mean? Why would Charlie dying be more of a "final event" then Charlie dying by lightning?


@#208: "If some guy came to you while pushing this button in this hatch alone, and says stuff about helicopters and people in danger you'd be like what the heck is this guy talking about. Back then it means nothing to him. So he forgets about it....it's meaningless."

If you're living for years all alone on a weird Island with a supposedly infectious disease going round outside pushing a button to prevent the world from ending and suddenly someone bangs on your door, stands outside without wearing any protective suit, starts rambling a bit and then disappears in front of your eyes, you say you would forget that?!

@#126 "I think eye-liner is much more crucial to the storyline than we believe, and he could possibly be the "first" to be on the island or something to that affect."

Even more crucial, is that possible? :) The beauty of Lost is that most characters are quite important to the story and Richard is definitely one of them. He is basically the man behind the Others. He choses their leaders. He choose Ben, he choose Locke. He might have chosen Widmore in the past? For all we know he is or is closely related to Jacob as well...

Interesting points in #218!

#225. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 23, 2009 12:05 PM

@#224: "Question: Is it worth it to watch the hour show before?"

I enjoyed it. Of course it's basically just a bunch of clips with producer commentary, so you might find that worth it. Depends how badly you need that hour for something else I guess.

#226. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 23, 2009 12:10 PM

re: #224 meg

It may be worth watching the hour show before. They briefly recap all the characters. They don't really even scrape the surface, but you may catch some "clues"...maybe... For example, when they were recapping Sun, the talked about her grief because "she thinks Jin is dead"... Hmm...kind of supports some of our theories that somehow, Jin and Michael got off the freighter before it blew up.

#227. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 12:12 PM

Meg, you asked, "Is it worth it to watch the hour show before?"

After nine months of no Lost, I woulda watched Juliet take a bath.

No, wait. Bad example.

I woulda watched Ben hydrate his eyeballs.

#228. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 23, 2009 12:17 PM

@185 |Lorien| confessed:

>LOST is heroin. I can't wait until I can fix again.

I foresee a problem in May of 2010.

#229. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 12:27 PM

@186 Jeff Maas posted.

Any relation to Dan Maas?

#230. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 12:30 PM

Connections part one:

Didn't you find it odd that Ben was reporting to Hawking, who was working her scientific calculations in the basement of a church?

And if you recall, Desmond had once taken orders from Brother Campbell, at a monastery, whose main benefactor was apparently Charles Widmore.

Now, there was a picture of Hawking and Brother Campbell together in a church grounds; the same church grounds where Liam met Charlie after his confessional (and just before the band got signed). We first met Hawking as the clock lady in a Desmond flash which changed Desmond's path back to getting together Penny; so this would confirm a connection between Hawking and Brother Campbell.

Then, Desmond had the strongest connection to Charlie, who had been to Hawkings church, and who had to die in order for Desmond to reconnect with Penny. That event allowed Widmore to re-find the island, and gives us the personal conflict between Widmore and Ben for the island.

However, if you trace back these connections, it is possible that Ben is working for Hawkings and Widmore is working for Brother Campbell are in fact Hawkings-Campbell playing Widmore and Ben off each other so their religious order can reclaim the island for itself.

#231. Posted by: welh at January 23, 2009 12:36 PM

→ 231. Posted by: welh

Wow. Great new theory. Nice connecting of dots.

Meg,I liked watching the preview show. It refreshed some details, added a little insight and kind of prepped me for the real thing.

#232. Posted by: lovelost at January 23, 2009 12:55 PM

@191 My Darlin' Clementine wrote:

>(Good call on the x-ray looking like a sonogram, Cecil! I thought the same.)

It WAS a sonogram. The foreman called it a sonar image - same thing. X-Rays have to work by passing through something and registering on film.

Sound waves can echo off something and bounce back, creating an image with the proper equipment.

o----

I agree with your thinking on the Chang baby.

o----

> It’s cold out :)

Tell me about it, Snowed in for two days earlier this week. Of course North Carolinians are snowed in by snowfalls that would make Yankees laugh.

#233. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 1:00 PM

Sorry for the dumb question, but when have we seen bleeding noses before?? I am having a mind block.

#234. Posted by: wondering at January 23, 2009 1:01 PM

@197 mtncbn noted:

>What's it do? It points north. Caught this first time thru as an Airplane nod.

All they needed was to add "but that's not important right now."

#235. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 1:06 PM

@207 boodle speculated:

>I don't think the LAPD detectives do stake outs in Mercedes...

Depends on what they've confiscated from drug dealers lately. (g)

#236. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 1:13 PM

Crazy, Maybe Not So Crazy Idea - What if Charlotte's illness is the same illness that killed Rousseau's people?

Favorite Acronyms:
FHPoD - Flaming Hot Pocket of Death
WGNABDW - We're Gonna Need A Bigger Donkey Wheel (Thank you BunnyLover)
WGNAF - We're Gonna Need Another Frogurt

Idle curiosity # 1 - Vincent's back.

Idle curiosity # 2 - Thorn in Sawyer's foot.

Idle curiosity # 3 - Eyeliner Richard's glasses.

#237. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 23, 2009 1:14 PM

@208 Matt S observed:

>If some guy came to you while pushing this button in this hatch alone, and says stuff about helicopters and people in danger you'd be like what the heck is this guy talking about.

Was anyone, like me, expecting him to ask Dan "What did one snowman say to the other snowman??

#238. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 1:15 PM

ransomjackson's list of new acronyms made me realize we need an ongoing list of these things (for no other reason than they crack me up). Anyone want to volunteer to compile? I'll gladly post it.

#239. Posted by: mac at January 23, 2009 1:18 PM

@210 boodle asked:

>Also, when Miles comes back to the beach with the boar... How...what...?!! He tells the group that it is okay to eat the dead boar...it's only been dead 3 hours... How...what...? Any ideas...?

Easy. Miles can read thoughts up to three hours after the person/animal dies. So when he finds a stationary source thinking "grunt... grunt... berries good... ruh roh.. don't fee so good!" he homes in on it.

#240. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 1:20 PM

@231 - welh: Very nice theory.

As an alternative theory, Maybe Hawking is from the future and is just trying to make sure that past events occur as they always have (with minor variations, of course correction). This, of course, leads to the theory that one of the special properties of the island is immunity from a reality-destroying paradox.

On a direct line from that is my newest theory: The island, and all occupants residing thereon, are simultaneously existing at all points in the space/time continuum.

Here are my supporting observations:

***We see dead people. The producers have stated that "dead on the island is dead." That's all fine and good, but if the dead are still on the island, and therefore occupying all points in time, then they are alive in *some* way. Since they were, they are.

***Explains Walt's random appearances. And the fact that he is “special” would explain why he seems to warn the others.

***And lastly, not really an observation, but a supporting theory: In order to change the Valenzetti equation, it is necessary to bypass time’s “course correction” mechanism. By existing in all points in space/time, one or more of the variables could be changed, causing a different outcome, and avoiding paradox.

Like I said, it’s a theory. Anyone else have observations that would support this? Or contradictory evidence?

#241. Posted by: |Lorien| at January 23, 2009 1:24 PM

@240 Cecil

HA!! That explains it! Thanks Cecil!

#242. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 1:25 PM

@218 ALEX ANGEL expostulated:

>I cannot believe that no one commented on Abadan returning. When the "LAPD" came to hurley's house didn't you all notice that one of the cops was a tall bald black man that looked a lot like Abadan?

Beat me to it. I though so too, but was waiting until I had a chance to rewatch before posting, just to be sure.

#243. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 1:25 PM

Dude I totally noticed Abadon! Aside from Alpert, that is the one character I want to know more about.

#244. Posted by: boozy at January 23, 2009 1:34 PM

@231 welh reasoned:

>Now, there was a picture of Hawking and Brother Campbell together in a church grounds; the same church grounds where Liam met Charlie after his confessional,

I wouldn't base too much speculation on 'sameness' of locations. There's only a limited number of locations of a certain kind in Honolulu for them to film on.

I believe on one of the DVD sets they mentioned that same church has been five different places, including Oxford University.

By the by, folks, welh still has my vote for "Best Icon" on the Lost Blog Reader Map. He showed us Eloise before she'd even appeared on the show. (g) Click on it to blow it up to full size for best effect.

#245. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 1:36 PM

@234 wondering wondered:

>Sorry for the dumb question, but when have we seen bleeding noses before?? I am having a mind block.

Minkowski, just before he died of 'island effect shock'.

Desmond, before he was snatched back from the brink of death by contact with his Constant, Penny.

Possibly the miner who was overcome in the Dharma diggings.

And now, most ominously, Ginger/Charlotte.

#246. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 1:41 PM

@246

...also...the senior Mr. Linus when Ben killed him in the van...

#247. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 1:43 PM

@247 boodle riposted:

>...also...the senior Mr. Linus when Ben killed him in the van...

Good point, though not for the same reasons as the others.

#248. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 1:55 PM

speaking of relatives, Mrs. Hawking probably has another son, too: Stephen Hawking (brief history of time)

#249. Posted by: ember at January 23, 2009 2:03 PM

I'm watching "Because You Left" on ABC.com and one thing I realized for certain is that Richard knew John would be / was shot. So he was prepared to fix his bullet wound. He and the others stay/move with the island and the LOST crew travel. Why? Because they've screwed up the island? But Ben is the one who threw the switch.

And what's up with Sawyer calling Farady "Gilbert"? Another nick-name I'm not sure of.


#250. Posted by: dk at January 23, 2009 2:28 PM

Ok, I got through them all, and there are probably ten more being added while I write this. The referance to the compass, I agree it has something to do with Richard showing it to Locke as a child, but how does Richard get it back? I guess a potential "flash" scene.

Wasn't there a compass in season 1 that DIDN'T point North? I doubt this is important. I find the weird things about Season 1 will never be revisited - Claire having to raise Aaron, Walt being special, the noise of the monster, what Locke "saw" when he saw the monster. I would really like to see Walt come back, I liked his and Locke's relationship.

When Ben moved the island, he destroyed that chamber thing with real matter. Does that just repair itself so it can be moved again, or make it stop jumping?

I loved the first scene, reminded me immediately of Juliet playing the record at the beginning of season 3 (4?).

I think Charlotte could be the baby in the first scene. Maybe her mother did die in childbirth but Charlotte lived, therefore she, Aaron and Alex are connected to the island.

I think the rules don't apply to Desmond once he activated the fail safe switch. That's when he started time jumping.

Ben thinks the rules did change when Alex was killed, because Alex lives in the future, so "course correcting" will be needed.

Completely agree that Jim is alive and thats why Darlton said Sun "thinks" he is dead, no way that wasn't a clue.

#251. Posted by: Rudy at January 23, 2009 2:33 PM

@ 250 dk - I think Sawyer called Faraday "Dilbert" in reference to the comic strip cubicle-dweller with the bad tie. Tha's my recollection anyway.

#252. Posted by: ransomjackson at January 23, 2009 2:33 PM

A few more random observations:

How does Sun know Ben's responsible for Jin's (assumed) death? She has no way of knowing the bomb was activated by Ben's killing Keamy.

And why would Jack be in her sights? I'm inclined to believe she still blames Kate despite her profession of 'understanding' for Kate 'lying' to her about getting Jin.

o----

Why does Desmond come out of the hatch in a HazMat suit? If this is after Kelvin's death he has already been out without one and knows they aren't necessary. If it's before Kelvin's death, where's Kelvin? Of course Desmond's actions have always been inconsistent - he grabbed an injector and a vial of Dharma serum when leaving the hatch to catch his sailboat.

o----

We're only assuming the Desmond/Penny scene where he 'remembers' Daniel's request to go to Oxford is post-island. They were on a sail boat in this scene, not the power boat she rescued the Oceanic 6 in. Maybe this scene is *before* the Desmond/Penny breakup.

o----

When Bernard ran out of the jungle to the beach after the first island-jump, did it sound to anyone like he was calling "Walt, Walt" instead of "Rose, Rose"?

o----

When Rose ran out of the jungle to the beach and Bernard asked where she had been, did it sound to anyone like she said "in the church"?

o----

Physics has always postulated that there's no reason (in the equations at least) time can't run backwards. Maybe backwards-talking smaller Walt was experiencing time backwards, and that's why his talking seemed backwards to us.

o----

I thought the most touching moment of the whole show was when Hurley narrated the whole mad-sounding affair of the island to his mom, and she said "I believe you. I don't understand it, but I believe you." Talk about a mother's love! I don't think it's a bad omen for Mrs. Reyes, it's just a touching moment.

o----

Did anyone notice the two characters who used the phrase "Then God help us all."? Dr. Chang and Mrs Harking.

o----

Not only has Vincent shown up, but someone's actually fashioned a leash for him -- without a knife!

o----

Sun said it was a baby-picture of Ji Yeon she was showing Kate, but she also mentioned Ji Yeon and Aaron playing together if they met, so she seems to be acknowledging their nearnes of age.

O----

I've just rewatched the 'LAPD showing up at the Reyes place' scene, and I don't think one of the officers was Abbadon.


#253. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 2:34 PM

Dilbert. That makes sense. Thanks.

Just for fun - one thing that I was able to do is get a screen grab of the bottles of beer Frank grabs from the reffer on the boat. It's "Jekyl Island Red Ale." Any thoughts on this, or is it just one of the many inside jokes they like to play?

#254. Posted by: dk at January 23, 2009 2:42 PM

@251 Rudy said:

>I loved the first scene, reminded me immediately of Juliet playing the record at the beginning of season 3 (4?).

Juliet played a CD at the beginning of S-3.

Desmond played a record at the beginning of S-2 - first time we'd seen inside the hatch.

I think the skipping record was necessary to clue in the younger fans to the metaphor to be used a little later - fans who may never have seen a turntable in their lives or experienced a record skipping.

#255. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 23, 2009 2:48 PM

Cecil--
Kelvin may have been out elsewhere on the island. I seem to remember him leaving Desmond alone in the hatch for long stretches of time while he went out in his haz mat suit.

Rose did say "in the church". I assumed she meant Eko and Charlie's church.

The Desmond/Penny scene on the sail boat was post island. Penny said that he'd been off the island three years.

Yes--you're right, Sun did say that Ji Yeon and Aaron should play together. That puts an end to the thought that there's some weird age disparity. It does seem weird though that someone who's running acompany as she is wouldn't be able to print out some more recent pictures. Maybe she's been to busy trying to plot revenge, etc... to spend time with her daughter. A sad thought considering she should be taking time to appreciate the only thing she has left of Jin.

#256. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 23, 2009 2:57 PM

Little problem about Daniels theory of not changing the future. Desmond was holed up in the hatch of fear of going outside thinking it was contaminated but then Daniel shows up without any protection on and fine as a whistle. Wouldn't that have convinced Desmond that it is now safe outside thus making him more likely to leave the hatch and alter future events?

Also remember last season when Alpert visited boy Locke and asked him to pick a bunch of stuff out of a lineup and one of them was a knife and a compass? Seems Locke has a big connection to it.
Also our girl Sun seems up to no good but I believe her hearts in the right place and still blames Widmore and is working him over.
Also I hope the show doesn't end this way but with all of this time travel is it possible that the island finally stops its path through time right before the plane crashed and then becomes visible on a map and the survivors get rescued hours later and it seems that they've never been missing from the real world? This would be a crappy Bobby wakes up from the dead Dallas moment. Hopefully the writers of lost don't pull this easy way out.

#257. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at January 23, 2009 3:01 PM

@253 Cecil wrote "When Rose ran out of the jungle to the beach and Bernard asked where she had been, did it sound to anyone like she said "in the church"?"

Remember that Ecko build a church a while back. this might be what she was referring to.

#258. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at January 23, 2009 3:05 PM

@ 228 ransomjackson
>After nine months >of no Lost, I >woulda watched Juliet >take a bath.

>No, wait. Bad example.

>I woulda watched Ben hydrate his >eyeballs.

BAAAAHahahahahahaaa! That's too funny.

Cecil - it's sunny in TX. had the top down today (the car Cecil, the car).

#259. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 3:07 PM

Here's my thoughts on why Des/Walt don't need to return and the O6 do.

Something happens in the future that requres the Oceanic 6 to be there but Des/Walt aren't supposed to return.

The "terrible thing" that they're talking about is probably a paradox wherein the O6 don't return to the island. Ben said last season that Widmore "broke the rules" by killing Alex. Maybe this was something similar... Alex wasn't supposed to die but the future somehow changed and that created a minor paradox.

If the O6 are supposed to return to the island but they don't, it could create a paradox that could let Widmore gain control of the island.

I also wonder if Widmore isn't the one behind the lawyers and the hitmen because he's trying everything he can to keep the O6 from returning.

Widmore and/or Ben may be "special" (like Desmond, only more experienced) and able to somehow change the future. If Ben succeeds, you get one future. If Widmore succeeds, you get a different one.

That's my thought anyway...

#260. Posted by: Paul at January 23, 2009 3:16 PM

@ 228 ransomjackson
That was awesome!

@ mac
I'll volunteer to put together the acronym info, not sure where it will be posted, but I can do it.

My nose has been bleeding for awhile now. I have read all 259 comments.

I think Faraday is related to Mrs. Hawking. I like the idea of Charlotte being Chang's child. I also like the idea of the young Assie being Widmore. I did not notice Pickett, Colleen, or Abaddon. I miss Mr. Friendly.

According to IMDB.com the character is named 'Niel Frogurt.' Gotta love that.

I have no clue as to who is dead or alive. There goes my nose again....

It is great to have LOST and Mac back. I did watch the hour show beforehand. The producers said that we would be getting more answers than questions. Really???

#261. Posted by: onelostdude at January 23, 2009 3:23 PM

@259 Skipper bragged:

>Cecil - it's sunny in TX. had the top down today (the car Cecil, the car).

It's 60 degrees here today. The weather in NC, she is very changeable.

o----

Everybody,

Yes, Eko started to build a church, but decided his mission lay in the hatch inputting numbers before he had more than a bare frame built. Charlie wondered 'what happened to our project'?

I suppose the others (not the Others) might have finished it and added a roof.

o----

And I still have baby pictures of my grandchildren in my wallet, some of whom are teenagers now.

o----

I don't remember - did Kelvin have more than one HazMat suit?

o----

I think the difference that Dan sees in Desmond is that his consciousness can time travel to earlier/later version of himself, and some of his earlier selves are located in England/Scotland, near enough to get to Oxford, whereas everybody else stays put in their body in their present consciousness, in the same physical location but at different times, and nowhere near Oxford and no way to get there.

Mrs Hawking could well be in LA in 2007/8 (whenever it is that Ben sees her there) but still be Daniel's mum back in the ol' Blighty of 199?, thus there to receive a message from Desmond.

#262. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 3:43 PM

As to one of the hand choppers being Widmore: Didn't they all get killed, or just the one knifed by Locke?

My thoughts on Ji Yeon(sp?) baby picture: Maybe more recent pictures would have been more likely to disclose a non-Jin father.

#263. Posted by: mtncbn at January 23, 2009 3:55 PM

@ 191 Clementine Thanks! I had never posted before, & I couldn't resist after watching the premiere! FHPoD!! (thanks randomjackson)

I've read a couple of mentions that the Richard/Locke compass scene could be an Airplane reference. Did anyone else think it was a lighthearted way for the producers to tell us fans with wild theories & crazy speculations that sometimes it's just a compass, nothing more?

#264. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 23, 2009 3:56 PM

@253 Cecil Rose - We're only assuming the Desmond/Penny scene where he 'remembers' Daniel's request to go to Oxford is post-island. They were on a sail boat in this scene, not the power boat she rescued the Oceanic 6 in. Maybe this scene is *before* the Desmond/Penny breakup.

I think it is post island also. I noticed Desmond was wearing a wedding ring. I assumed they got married.

re: Sun and the baby picture...

Ji Yeon is older. Remember last season when she confronted Widmore (with his business associates). Right before he came out, she was talking to her daughter on the phone. Her mom had her. (Maybe her mom has had her all this time.) By the subtitles of what she is saying in Korean, you can tell that Ji Yeon is probably toddler age.

#265. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 4:11 PM

Time travel issue: improbable exceptions.

The whole person time skipping problem is that everyone who was on the island during the first time skip would continue to skip along with the 815ers. That would include Alpert, but apparently he vanishes after meeting Locke.

If it is just the island skipping, and the people are still in their real time lock, a real paradox occurs when hazmat Desmond appears in front of Faraday, because the real time Desmond is outside the island radius in the raft (thereby creating two Desmonds at the same time but in two different places).

#266. Posted by: welh at January 23, 2009 4:13 PM

I was ultimately kinda sorta dissapointed. New mysteries aplenty, but I was hoping for more revelations.

When Alpert meets Locke, I thought he was gonna explain at least something, about Jacob, Christian, Smokey, the Others, the Island itself, anything. I've already forgotten many of the smaller questions that I had before.

I know, I should be patient, it will be awesome and (almost) every piece will eventually fall into place. But dammit, I DEMAND MORE ANSWERS!!!

#267. Posted by: Molemangler at January 23, 2009 4:24 PM

I just re-watched...Abbadon was definitely not one of the police detectives.

Also, to correct my own "observation". LAPD stakeout car was not a Mercedes as I had thought. It just might be a Buick...my bad!!

#268. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 4:36 PM

@268 boodle posted

Is your first name Kitandca?

#269. Posted by: Cecil at January 23, 2009 4:51 PM

Re: the comments about Walt needing to return or not return to the Island. He has returned in his own special way to the Island a few times, appearing to Boone’s sister Shannon and to Locke.

Re: the compass points north scene. Remember the saying on Mr. Eko’s staff ‘Lift up your eyes and look north.” I wonder if there is a significant connection here.

@157 – Island time and off Island time run different so who knows what 70 hours mean.

@120 – Nadia is dead – that is one of the reasons Sayid went to work for Ben.

#270. Posted by: GatorChomp at January 23, 2009 4:57 PM

Best dialogue:

Locke: What is it?
Alpert: A compass.
Locke: What does it do?
Alpert: It points north, John.

#271. Posted by: Roggie at January 23, 2009 5:11 PM

Conjecture - Conjecture - All this conjecture is maddening!

I think it’s soooooo obvious. You just wait - this season is leading up to the final battle for the Rambaldi Artifact and Prophet Five’s conquest of the island. Watch out Charles Widmore. In Episode 17, Sydney Bristow is time warped across the void between the CBS Archives and future tense ABC . . . . And there’s about to be some heavy duty ass-whippin” in the offing.

Jack will also become the spokesman for “Breathe Right” nasal strips.

I figured all this out by running a combined back to back glued tape of “Back to the Future” and “Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure” backwards thru my classic refurbished Emerson EWV404 4-head VCR in slow motion . . . That’s why it’s taken me 36 hours to come up with this solution.

You all can take a break and eat something now.

You're welcome.

#272. Posted by: TheREALdavidrh at January 23, 2009 5:15 PM

Just briefly browsed through the comments and haven't found the answer---one thing's been bothering me is why Faraday kept telling Sawyer stop knocking the door because no one can change the history, and then suddenly after he read sth in his journal, he himself began to knock that door. Does that journal remind him that Desmond is his constant? If that is the case, he surely has serious memory issue!

#273. Posted by: still lost at January 23, 2009 5:26 PM

The "Bad Thing" That Happened on the Island, causing all the chaos, and why the O6 has to return?

When the camp "disappeared" in the time skips because it was non-island made but from the 815ers, that can only mean that Cindy has lost . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . her scarf!!!!

#274. Posted by: welh at January 23, 2009 5:44 PM

well, I watched again last night and it was just as confusing as the first watch.

Re Sun and Kate. Does anyone think that she got her self into trouble tangling with Widmore alone? When she says "wouldn't you do anything to protect Aaron?" I got the idea that maybe Ji Yeon is in danger if Sun doesn't do what Widmore wants. I think she'd in trouble. That's the only new thing that I saw.

Also someone here mentioned Locke's leg pains when Boone was climbing up to the plane. Maybe a vestige of a future memory? I like that, Where Else does that happen?

#275. Posted by: berkyo at January 23, 2009 6:26 PM

@ 274 welh: No, no, no. Cindy & her scarf are fine. Didn't they become part of the Others? So they were part of Richard's group that didn't jump, right? Now what is the actual criteria for becoming a Skipper, hmm...

#276. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 23, 2009 6:40 PM

@#257: "Little problem about Daniels theory of not changing the future. Desmond was holed up in the hatch of fear of going outside thinking it was contaminated but then Daniel shows up without any protection on and fine as a whistle. Wouldn't that have convinced Desmond that it is now safe outside thus making him more likely to leave the hatch and alter future events?"

Not necessarily. Daniel vanished in front of Desmond's eyes. Des might just have thought he started hallucinating from being in the hatch for so long. Could explain (somewhat) why he doesn't seem to remember this encounter until years later.

@#260: "I also wonder if Widmore isn't the one behind the lawyers and the hitmen because he's trying everything he can to keep the O6 from returning."

The hitmen, perhaps, but the lawyers, no. I don't think so. At least not if his goal is to keep the O6 away from the island. Letting Kate have a happy life being mother to Aaron seems like the best way of assuring she won't return to the island.

#277. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 23, 2009 7:34 PM

@269 Cecil - Is your first name Kitandca?

No...is that an acronym for our list...? :o)

#278. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 7:44 PM

@269 boodle -
"@269 Cecil - Is your first name Kitandca?

No...is that an acronym for our list...? :o)"

Ignoring kit & caboodle ...

KITANDCA = Kept Inside The Approved Narrative Damon/Carlton Allow ?

#279. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 8:08 PM

Welcome back ealgumby. Where ya been?!

#280. Posted by: mtncbn at January 23, 2009 8:11 PM

@280 mtncbn -

On da island!

(and obviously I meant to ref boodle/278 ... cut/paste ya know)

#281. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 8:25 PM

okay, now gettin giddy ...

KITANDCA = Kenny Inside The Alpaca Now Devoured/Chomped Alive!

Nevermind ...

#282. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 8:30 PM

How much fun must it be for the producers to be able to appear on a recap show like the one that aired before S5 started and just say something like "Sun believes Jin is dead" and watch the fans start coming up with theories. :) "Sun believes Jin is dead" fits just as well with "Jin is dead" as with "Jin is alive", but just saying these words make us all go "wow, there must be something there". :) Great, they must be having tons of fun at those times, where they can do nice out-of-show rumour spreading like that without actually lying. And we're having fun too!

#283. Posted by: Plain Simple at January 23, 2009 8:33 PM

@194 Vacc

Thanks for the info about the interviews. It was great to hear the producers give their take on the season premiere.

#284. Posted by: lost2theworld at January 23, 2009 9:05 PM

Okay, I only made it through post #100, so if this has already been posted, I apologize. But has anyone noticed that most of the time when Daniel Farady consults his notebook, he goes from back to front? I wonder if he's from the future? Hmmmm.......

#285. Posted by: Kathy at January 23, 2009 9:09 PM

FYI - if you watch all of the interviews on site that @194 Vacc refers to Cuse & Lindelhof discuss their favorite parts of each season. It is very informative.

Also, the actor that portrays Jin says that he just got back from filming in Hawaii. Of course this may or may not mean anything regarding the status of Jin with all of the crazy jumping that the show is doing...but it is interesting nontheless.

#286. Posted by: lost2theworld at January 23, 2009 9:10 PM

Now that the dust has settled a bit, and I’ve had some time to ponder these epis, here are a few of my (rather lengthy … sorry!) early thoughts (and beware … some of this gets pretty “deep” [and by that I mean how far I delve into the irrationality cesspool] really fast, but I just might have stumbled across something of value within the muck as well …):

I concur with Mac’s commentary regarding the “scientific validity” of explanations for what is happening on the show. Ultimately, we must remember this is a science fiction program, so any resolution “explained through science” for what happens can only, by necessity, skirt the edges of known/theoretical esoteric science. If it were “hard science,” then it wouldn’t really be sci fi, would it?

That being said, I have enjoyed trying to unravel the bases for many of the scientific ideas presented in the show. The writers have dug deep into their handbook of obscure science to give an aura of plausibility thus far, invoking such concepts as the Novikov Principle, Kerr metric, Tipler machines, exotic matter, Casimir effect and sonoluminescence … all of which are “valid” to varying degrees. As such, they have provided just enough “scientific basis” to justify the Lost mythology, as incredible as it still might be.

I believe they are about to invoke some more “new science” this season, beginning with the concept of a “Faraday rotator” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, Daniel don’t ya know!) applied to de Broglie polarization of the exotic matter buried within the island. No, this hasn’t been mentioned yet on the show … pure speculation on my part, but have been trying to find *something* in the realm of weird science to explain the whole “Frozen Donkey Wheel turning leads to the disappearance of the island” thing. A wild leap here, but I think the FDW may be an exotic form of a Faraday rotator, which changes the polarization of the island, simply by Ben turning it ninety degrees.

More speculation on my part here (and certainly not “real” science!), but once again, in the spirit of applying some remote plausibility to the Lost mythology … consider for a moment the fact (in terms of current knowledge) that electromagnetic waves can be polarized in such a fashion as to have two completely different signals travelling together, but ninety degrees out of polarization, with minimal interference (why polarized sunglasses reduce glare). In fact, this principle is currently applied to satellite communication systems, with two independent data streams transmitted simultaneously at the same frequency, but perpendicular polarization; they can be received on the ground without interference, effectively “invisible” to one another, yet occupying the same “space.” Taking this a step further, de Broglie (or matter) waves should theoretically operate in the same fashion, but such manipulation is beyond the realm of modern science. Where a Faraday rotator is used in current technology to change the polarization of light, I think the FDW could be using the strange properties of the island’s exotic matter to effectively change the de Broglie polarization of the island, and all matter within its Casimir effect radius of influence. In effect, it is “still there,” but invisible to the “normal world” because it is ninety degrees out of matter polarization.

Mind you, this PURELY speculative on my part at this point, but certain aspects of this theory work well with Lost mythology. One is the concept of birefringence, physically observable in materials such as Iceland Spar; such materials slow the effective speed of light along one polarity by a different amount than light waves with polarity ninety degrees offset. Other related concepts are the Faraday effect, the Kerr effect, the Cotton-Mouton effect, dichroism, and the Zeno effect, which could, once again as a theoretical basis, be applied to the exotic matter effects of the island.

Taking things a step further, it could be that “the island” is uniformly polarized by the exotic matter within it, but the 815ers are not, such that polarization changes affect “the island (and its ‘native’ inhabitants/material)” differently than the Losties … hence natives like Richard coming/going with the island, while the late-comers (including Daniel, et al, and interestingly, probably, Cindy … why not Desmond? Well, he’s special, of course!). Or rather, the 815ers oscillating through time in typical response function form to the disturbance caused by the polarity shift, while the island, and its natives, remain fixed in space-time at the alternate polarity. Yeah, I’m digging deep, but bear with me! You know, like when the Nazis bombed Pearl Harbor, right? (Help me, Bluto!) ;)

I like this theory, at least as a partial explanation, because it also inherently involves “duality” (in terms of both polarization and dichroism), which has certainly been a major focus of the show’s storyline/mythology. I know it’s completely “unscientific” BS, but so is everything else presented to date, as far as I’m concerned.

Now, at a less theoretical level … much has been made in the past about “The Incident,” and its effects upon the island. How this works with what I’ve just pondered about, I’m not sure, but I think “The Incident” will involve the return of the O6 to the island. Many others have suggested that this entire season will be about getting the O6 back, and I tend to agree. In fact, the end of the season will probably be coincident with their eventual return. I ALSO think this will be when “The Incident” happens, and their return will somehow adversely alter the dynamics of the island’s interaction with the “normal” world. Perhaps babies born on the island after “The Incident” are no longer in sync with island polarization, leading to their mortality (?). Total stretch, true … but no less stupid than any other theory … maybe?

Finally, we’ve all noticed the many scattered references to literature, history, and art made throughout this series. Perhaps I’m making more of this than it deserves, but can’t help but wonder if D&C might be fans of “They Might Be Giants.” Specifically, the song “Ana Ng:”

>>>
Make a hole with a gun perpendicular
To the name of this town in a desk-top globe
Exit wound in a foreign nation
Showing the home of the one this was written for
My apartment looks upside down from there
Water spirals the wrong way out the sink
And her voice is a backwards record
It's like a whirlpool, it never ends

Ana Ng and I are getting old
And we still haven't walked in the glow of each other's majestic presence
Listen Ana hear my words
They're the ones you would think I would say if there was a me for you

All alone at the '64 World's Fair
Eighty dolls yelling "Small girl after all"
Who was at the Dupont Pavilion
Why was the bench still warm? Who had been there?
Or the time when the storm tangled up the wires
To the horn on the pole at the bus depot
And in the back of the edge of hearing
these are the words the voice was repeating:

when I was driving once I saw this painted on a bridge:
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"

They don't need me here, and I know you're there
Where the world goes by like the humid air
And it sticks like a broken record
Everything sticks until it goes away
And the truth is, we don't know anything
>>>

I know, more than a bit of a reach, but these epis reminded me specifically of the “broken record” line (and I KNOW, many other similar refs are out there!), but upon further examination, there are a lot of parallels between the song/show. Of course, it might just SEEM that way to me, through the astigmatic lens of my off-norm mind! :)

#287. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 9:17 PM

Did anyone notice that Dr. "Candle" still had both of his hands in this episode?

#288. Posted by: Lets Roll at January 23, 2009 9:19 PM

Few things that I meant to post a while ago so sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

I guess Boozy (213) hasn't learned his/her lesson after being murdered last time for what he said. Well, he's still alive; no one has jumped him yet.
_____

So maybe RA knows how to control this time traveling/jumping/skipping thing and that's why he and the other others don't travel with our skippers. They probably learned how to do it by choice... just a thought.

But that still wouldn't explain how he went back in time to help Ben, because if Ben was never influenced by RA, none of this would have ever happened, because the purge would have never happened. I'm just going in circles now.
_____

Why are there so many imposters??? First davidrh now meg! Looks like these people want to be you guys! Good thing nobody wants to be me.
_____

Ragarding RA's Eyeliner being relevant/important: He had the same kind of eyes in The Dark Knight, so it's most likely just the way his eyes are.
_____

@ wandering - 234
Michael Scofield - Prison Break
... and of course Desmond and Minkowski.
_____

@ Cecil Rose - 238
"Was anyone, like me, expecting him to ask Dan "What did one snowman say to the other snowman??"

YES! I was actually. I even mentioned that to my friend while we were watching it. I think it was the commercial. I said, "why didn't he ask him the snowman question?"
______

If the Oracle/Boss lady is somehow also Daniel's mom, how would Ben get to Oxford from LA so quickly? Answer:
He wouldn't have.

But maybe with this whole time-traveling thing, you never know.
______

@ Cecil Rose - 253
Desmond-Penny Scene Post-Island?

Yes, If I remember correctly Penny says something about it being 3 years since he left.

"God help us all."

Yes, I noticed that also. I found it interesting how multiple characters said the same line.
______

There were also MANY number references during the episode. I'm sure everyone picked up on them.

#289. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 23, 2009 9:30 PM

Questions ...

Who originally placed the FDW? (note: I like the 69/Bannan theory re 4-toed future "humans" ... but I also like my ref to "They Might Be Giants" in terms of the statue scale!)

How did Ben learn to use the FDW, when it was still sealed behind the orchid wall? Does/did he know "what" it does, or just that he has to turn it ninety degrees to "move the island?"

Is Ben supposed to return to the island with the O6, after he said he couldn't?

#290. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 9:51 PM

Just watched the epis again, & the arm chopper who takes Sawyer & Juliet hostage name is Jones.

#291. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 23, 2009 9:52 PM

@291 HotPocket23

Yes, I saw that too during re-watch too...name was on his military uniform.

#292. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 9:57 PM

Did anyone elsdm think that Ms. Hawking's computer looked like the same type as the one in the hatch?

#293. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 23, 2009 10:00 PM

Second viewing observations -

Dr. Chang’s wife doesn’t have an accent. Maybe she grew up in L.A or Portland –Either way she seems Asian-American to me. Dr. Chang himself has a very slight Asian accent, you have to listen closely. Probably doesn’t mean much, just an observation.

Dr. Chang actually says, “there are rules that can’t be broken” so maybe Faraday does know what he’s talking about and maybe he’s not lying.

What would make a carbon drill bit melt (in the Orchid Station)?

#294. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 10:30 PM

Has anyone gone back to watch “The 23rd Psalm” or “The Cost of Living” to see if they can figure out what year Yemi’s plane left Nigeria? This would be a huge clue as to when The 815ers were “skipped to” the first and third time.

The first time that the 815ers were skipped, they were placed in the past with Yemi’s plane. The second time they were “skipped”, they were placed in the future… sometime after the plane crash, but we don’t know when. The third time the 815ers were skipped they went back in time…. Back to the same time Yemi’s plane crashed (they visited Yemi’s time twice). I know this because you can see Locke witness the place crash the first time (then we have a skip forward and Richard Alpert appears to Locke). Then just as Richard gives Locke the compass, the 815ers skip back and the camera pans up to show Yemi’s plane in the tree again… still smoking. Is it possible that Desmond was already on the island when Yemi crashed? Because according the the third Skip back, Yemi’s plane was smoking in the tree while Daniel Faraday was banging on Desmond’s hatch door. I guess I thought that Yemi landed way before that. Again – if anyone can figure out what year Yemi left Nigeria, it would really help.

This means:
First skip back = Yemi’s plane crashes in front of Locke
Second skip forward = sometime after flight 815 crashes
Third skip back = back to Yemi’s plane crash, but this time the place is already in the tree and still smoking

#295. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 10:32 PM

Sun’s common interest with Widmore is to kill Ben, right? But I thought that Widmore could not kill Ben due to the rules. So why is Widmore humoring Sun?

Syaid said, “If you spent the last TWO years doing what I did …..” re: Ben. But they 815ers have been off the island for THREE years… this means that something must have happened between Ben and Sayid two years into Sayid being an assassin, and Sayid has been a single agent for the last year. Maybe they had a rift after Sayid fell in love with that spy girl that he ended up killing.

Charlotte (Ginger) actually says, “I haven’t had a nose bleed since I was a little girl”. So maybe this isn’t the first time that someone has activated the FDW?

One more thing – if you can’t change the past, then why was Locke able to stick a knife in that army-looking-English-guy’s chest – killing him. Maybe that guy was going to die anyways.

#296. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 10:33 PM

@296 Skipper - Syaid said, “If you spent the last TWO years doing what I did …..” re: Ben. But they 815ers have been off the island for THREE years… this means that something must have happened between Ben and Sayid two years into Sayid being an assassin, and Sayid has been a single agent for the last year. Maybe they had a rift after Sayid fell in love with that spy girl that he ended up killing.

I think Sayid was married to Nadia when she was "killed". Maybe that is the year prior to him getting with Ben. Also, another time piece to throw into the whole time puzzle. So, supposedly, after Ben turns the FDW, he is thrown into the dessert...somewhere in the middle east...? That is when he goes to the hotel that recognizes him as a frequent guest and he sees the television news coverage of Sayid and his wife's funeral... How is it that Ben ends up in the dessert apparently right after turning the wheel and then there is Sayid...mourning the death of a woman that he returned home, married and then lost...? So much rambling because my brain in tied in one big knot right now. How would that time difference be explained...?

#297. Posted by: boodle at January 23, 2009 10:51 PM

Good point Boodle. you're right... Sayid was married to Nadia (she found him outside of the O6 press conf.). then they went to Hugo's bday party together and were happy for however long... then Nadia was killed and Sayid took her body back to Iraq to be buried. How the heck did it take Ben THAT long to land in the Tunisian desert IF Ben and Sayid left the Island on the same day??

#298. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 11:00 PM

All entries consumed. Only two immediate comments.

1) Wow, eight months with no LOST... I'd watch Danielle take a bath... no, wait... no, perfect example.

2) Danielle! We saw lots of crazy folks running around the island this week... ready to kill without provocation, Ethan, army guys, arrow attack, Des in the Swan. Sounds EXACTLY like crazy Danielle. Remember how long it took the Losties to lasso her, and how long it took for her to trust them. She has to be part of the "time crowd". If everyone from her ship died from the sickness after a few weeks, but not her, she either wasn't there, or she is "special".

#299. Posted by: DocH at January 23, 2009 11:04 PM

I'm no expert, but the hand choppers sounded a lot more English than Aussie to me. For what that's worth.

Also, I predict that this whole season will just span the next 70 hours. Sorta like "24"... only three times longer.

#300. Posted by: Frogurt at January 23, 2009 11:06 PM

@297 boodle -
"after Ben turns the FDW, he is thrown into the dessert...somewhere in the middle east...?"

Okay, maybe I'm looking too hard to see the forest, but ... back to my "Ana Ng" theory ...

>>>
Make a hole with a gun perpendicular
To the name of this town in a desk-top globe
Exit wound in a foreign nation
>>>

Where is the opposite side of the world from the south pacific? (make a hole perpendicular from the south Pacific through a globe) ... ta da! Tunisia! Right where Ben ended up ...

ponder that ...

Belittle me if you will, but wouldn't be at all surprised if D&C played such a trivial game with us ...

#301. Posted by: ealgumby at January 23, 2009 11:08 PM

Wouldn't the height of the trees change over time? Shouldn't they get taller then shorter and then taller again?

What about the Dharma station found in the desert at the beginning of season 4? Was that explained?

#302. Posted by: just me at January 23, 2009 11:13 PM

@302
re: the trees, you mean.. shorter, taller, then shorter.

Shorter - when they "skipped" back the first time,

Taller - when they "skipped" forward to post 815 crash time

Shorter - short again when they "skip" back the second time.

I didn't notice any change in the trees... anything could explain why they didn't grow...after all it's a magical island.

#303. Posted by: Skipper at January 23, 2009 11:30 PM

@ 301 ealgumby: The incident that Dharma experienced had to be similar to turning the FDW which would explain why the polar bear was also discovered in Tunisia.

#304. Posted by: HotPocket23 at January 23, 2009 11:33 PM

Did anyone notice how the three guys filming the orientation video at the beginning of the epi all looked like Flock of Seagulls guys ... like the ones Vince and Jules encountered, and shot, in Pulp Fiction?

#305. Posted by: ealgumby at January 24, 2009 1:13 AM

Okay ... upon further review ... only the dude by the door qualifies! My bad!

#306. Posted by: ealgumby at January 24, 2009 1:21 AM

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm dating a fellow poster,
Wouldn't you like to know who?

#307. Posted by: ealgumby at January 24, 2009 1:25 AM

No, my record is not skipping ...

in spite of my apparent insanity, it is true ...

someone out there likes me!

#308. Posted by: ealgumby at January 24, 2009 1:27 AM

Great article, Mac, and amazing theories from everyone as well. Just wanted to point out two things I noticed as I watched the episodes for a second time.

The two episodes are bookended with ominous "God help us all" quotes-- Candle at the beginning referring to drilling too close to the power source, and Ms. Hawking at the end warning about if Ben isn't successful in 70 hours.

Also, back when Locke was visited by Alpert as a child, it seems to make sense that he was supposed to pick the compass (as many people have pointed out). He instead picked the knife--and did you notice the one thing Locke was holding when he started to skip in time is a knife? I wonder if that means anything.

#309. Posted by: Gabriel at January 24, 2009 5:34 AM

What episode was the trial? and who's trial was it? The trial at the Hydra where Cindy and the kids came by. My addled memory only recalls a white haired woman 'justice' preciding. I presume it couldn't have been Ms Hawking, or it would have been expounded upon in the blogs, but I can't stop recalling her that way.

Come on guys, the prop crew is pretty good, but changing the trees ...! That would even be quite an order for the cgi crew.

When, after the FDW turn, Ben landed in the desert, he traveled in space AND time.

I don't think the FDW turns 90°, I believe it is a screw that lifted the lid on the exotic matter. Ben had to turn it quite a few turns to raise that heavy lid. But then Ben zaps to Tunesia, how did the lid get lowered?

Ahhh ... new theory.
People from the future (Hawkings crew) were threatened with extinction from the E-matter, they travel back in time to before it came into existence, and with a crew of Egyptions, encased it and put a lid on where it was going to come into existence. (else, how did they ever build the FDW, with that glowing matter there?)(but why an openable lid??)
Along comes Dharma, finds the E-matter, and screws everything up. Now Hawking has come back to un-screw(pun intended-lower the lid) history.
The Egyptian's stayed on the island to guard it, built the 4-toed statue to honor the future people, but were over come by Dharma.
Hawking has four toes!
That is why her other son(Stephen) is so smart!

#310. Posted by: mtncbn at January 24, 2009 7:58 AM

#309:
I wonder if the fact that Alpert decided Locke wasn't the one because he failed to choose the "correct" artifact is one of the course corrections being pursued now.

Ben appears to be the alternate to Locke. Had Alpert accepted Locke inspite of the knife choice, Ben wouldn't have ascended to Island Most High Mucky Muck. Had Alpert chosen Locke, a different series of events would have occurred.

#311. Posted by: undaunted at January 24, 2009 8:19 AM

@287 ealgumby

Okay, now you are making my nose bleed! I understand just enough for it to go right over my head. I like the satellite signal reference. I do understand polarizing sunglasses, applying that to the island is awesome. It is still there, you just can't see it. Great theory!

#312. Posted by: onelostdude at January 24, 2009 9:51 AM

I like the polarization concept to explain why the island could vanish in plain sight but stay in the same place. But the episodes threw on the table both time and space traveling concepts.

When Yemi's plane crashed on the island, it was because the island had skipped in time to a place off the African coast; then it oscillated back in time-space to the Pacific to the 815ers timeline. See, Mrs. Hawking's use of a pendulum to find the island.

The freighter crew believed the island was 4 days east north east of Fiji; and Mrs. Hawking now believes the island is located due north of Fiji. So it is apparent that the island is moving in physical space.

The island could have been skipping all along, like a dust magnet, collecting objects in its path in time-space like the Blackrock, the toe statue, Yemi's plane, flight 815, and in a wild tangent, the entire underground military installation of hatches located in Area 51.

#313. Posted by: welh at January 24, 2009 10:26 AM

Too much Lost makes brain sizzle like breakfast bacon, but I thought it was odd that the storyline included Sawyer stepping on a stick, injuring his foot, then running into a band of body part chopping militarists . . . then it hit me: what if the four-toe statue is a "future" monument to the person who saved the island, i.e. Sawyer?

#314. Posted by: welh at January 24, 2009 10:58 AM

Not to beat a dead horse, but there's clear evidence that Abaddon was *not* one of the cops who visited Hurley's home:

http://tinyurl.com/cqxjdz

#315. Posted by: mac at January 24, 2009 11:35 AM

So I still haven't COMPLETELY read through all the posts yet because I lost my spot, but I thought of a few more things and I'm sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

If Charlotte's Chang's kid, that could explain why she could speak and understand Korean, assuming Chang is also Korean. However, that would not explain why she's a red head.

Also, we can assume that Chang's time (which can be speculated to be during the beginning of the Dharma Initiative), is AFTER 1945. I say this because the construction man person says to Change, "Ok, so, what, we're gonna go back and kill Hitler?"

Maybe the Dharma Initiative isn't as old as it seems it should be.

Once again, I appologize if I repeated anyone.

#316. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 24, 2009 2:37 PM

Thoughts upon second viewing...

If the Dharma worker who was drilling had a massive nosebleed and lost consciousness, why didn't Ben have the same reaction when he went inside the chamber to turn the wheel? Has it lost some intensity over the years?

I can’t remember... where did Kate get the money for her nice house in Cali? Was Dr. Jack paying the rent? The actor playing the bogus lawyer was the dad from My So-Called Life. The law firm is Agostini and Norton which is an anagram for Attaining Donor Son.

Do you think Sayid deliberately booby-trapped the dishwasher? I just can’t imagine a guy living in a bachelor pad safehouse actually loading a dishwasher. Those tranquilizer darts seemed crazy-big. Polar-bear sized, maybe.

I’m guessing we don’t see the Jeremy Bentham story until the end of the season.

Frank is the only returnee whose post-Island life we haven’t seen yet (after the Searcher).

I take back what I said earlier about Ana-Lucia’s appearance being pointless. I guess the point was “do not get arrested.” And ghost-Claire told Kate not to take Aaron back. Where’s all the advice coming from?

When Daniel arrived back at the beach, Sawyer said he was gone for 2 hours. But it only took about 15 mins to look at his journal and talk to Des. Did something else happen in the meantime, or did he really just get lost? How’s he going to calculate a new bearing without an off-island reference point?

Ginger’s nosebleed seemed oddly out of place, as I thought it was a side-effect of the consciousness time-travel or proximity to the FDW chamber.

Jack carrying Sayid into a hospital room and treating him, without being questioned or interrupted, is such sloppy storytelling. Also, the indicator on the oxygen tank he used was in the red (or empty).

I’d love to see a duel between Ben’s baton and Hurley’s hotpocket.

Welh: that’s an interesting thought about Sawyer being the inspiration for a future four-toed statue. There could be a “Planet of the Apes” style revelation. But I hope we don’t see a toe amputation. And the island bouncing through space as well as time would explain the variety of artifacts.

#317. Posted by: Clementine at January 24, 2009 11:31 PM

Lost has had me on the edge of my seat since day one! I was heart broken to hear Jack’s ex wife tell him that she was leaving him for someone else, and was kinda hoping that he and Juliet would get together too. I hope that Sawyer doesn’t die in the 5th season and would feel even better if we discovered that not everyone on the freighter died-like Jin and Michael. I’m still wondering what that 4 toed statue was!

#318. Posted by: Dharma Gal at January 25, 2009 12:23 AM

Wednesday Midnight to Friday Midnight - 304 entries.

Next 24 hours - 14 entries.

Obviously all the sensible people have decided to
finally go to bed and get some rest . . .

Afterall, there are, what, 22 episodes to go? This is no time to totally exhaust our brain cells in the first week.

BTW: Did anybody notice the screen picture of all the Lost Bloggers on Mrs. Hawkings computer?

#319. Posted by: The REALdavidrh at January 25, 2009 7:51 AM

@ Clementine - 317
"I can’t remember... where did Kate get the money for her nice house in Cali? Was Dr. Jack paying the rent? The actor playing the bogus lawyer was the dad from My So-Called Life. The law firm is Agostini and Norton which is an anagram for Attaining Donor Son."

I'm pretty sure they all got compensated from the crash by Oceanic Airlines. I forget how much it was exactly, or if they even said exactly how much, but probably a lot so they wouldn't sue them.

#320. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 25, 2009 9:45 AM

the island has to be moving in physical space because if it wasn't moving, invisible or not, you could find it by it's geographical coordinates.

or is it where it has always been, but the door is locked and what Mrs. Hawking is trying to find isn't the island, but the key to get in?

#321. Posted by: undaunted at January 25, 2009 11:00 AM

Regarding Mrs. Hawking's research:

The Focault pendulum would only demonstrate the rotation of the earth at her location, so I'm guessing it was used for dramatic effect, unless anyone has a suggestion as to how it could be used to find the island?

But I did have some thoughts on the event window that may happen in 70 hours. In Daniel's perception of time, he met Desmond outside the hatch shortly after the freighter blew up (although after skipping back and forth through time). But Desmond woke up with the memory of it 3 years after the freighter blew up. Could it be that the skippers perception of time in this last episode has equated to 3 years in off-island time? If Alpert goes skipping through time often, that might explain his slow-aging. And Mrs. Hawking might be somehow researching people's perceptions and memories of when events occurred, to try to sync up an event that will happen on-island and off at a known time and space, so Ben and the O6 can return in that window. She's like the Lost producer (whose name I forget) who is the keeper of the history of everything that happened in the show.

#322. Posted by: Clementine at January 25, 2009 11:58 AM

Sorry to be getting to this late, been a long week at work.

I am also sorry to be a bit of a downer. I was super excited about the return of Lost, but I was underwhelmed by the delivered product.

Things I was not surprised by the "big reveals" of: It was Marvin Candle (or whatever he is calling himself today) in bed waking up. It was Daniel Faraday at the Orchid construction site. Daniel would speak to Desmond at the hatch. Desmond would do whatever Daniel asked him to. Someone would come looking for Kate and her "baby". Kate would go fugitive. The friendly voice on the phone would be Sun. Hurley would break his promise not to help Sayid in his time of need. Sayid would end up with Jack. Hurley was pulled over by Ana Lucia. Hurley would not go quietly with Ben. Locke was coming to the rescue in the jungle. Frogurt gets juiced by an arrow.

I couldn't have predicted all of those things before Wednesday, but as each of those scenes (or series of scenes) began I could tell exactly where the writers were taking us. Maybe they set everything up too well, but I would like to be surprised more often as the series concludes. The only times I really got excited these two episodes were when Frogurt started talking on the Zodiac, and when the Expose theme came on Mr. Reyes's TV set...although I was disappointed we didn't get a new Expose scene with Nikki (assuming he was watching a rerun).

I predict that Ben hired the lawyers that visited Kate, and that Mrs. Hawking will turn out to be Daniel's mother. I hope I am wrong on both counts, both are way too obvious IMHO.

I am also confused as to why Juliet (who is an Other but joined forces with the Losties) and Locke (who is a Lostie but has been deemed by Jacob to lead the Others) are both jumping. Surely one or the other should be "stuck" like Alpert, Desmond, Ethan, and the rest of the Others. Either Juliet should be stuck by the mere fact she is an Other, or Locke should be stuck by becoming an other (or being at the Temple, which could be protecting the Others, except Alpert left the Temple to fix Locke's wound and remained stuck).

As for the final group they meet on the island (the hand-chopping obsessed Jones), they seemed to be WW2 era to me. Jones is an overabundant name in Wales, and the guy had some kind of UK accent (I couldn't grasp exactly what it was).

Anyone else notice a certain dead man remaining in the cast credits for both episodes, despite not appearing in both episodes?

Finally, I miss the old reviews Mac. Not because I need a detailed recap, but because you had such a humorous way of providing a play-by-play. I understand if real life is in the way of providing those types of reviews, but they will be missed.

#323. Posted by: FenwayBen at January 25, 2009 12:20 PM

@20 The Other Other > I agree with you that Locke may or may not be dead. Jack's "He's dead, right?" line to Ben and lack of answer is at least meant to tease us if not foreshadow. I also wondered why no one is trying to recruit Walt. And does Ji Yeon need to go back? What about Lapidis?

#324. Posted by: FenwayBen at January 25, 2009 12:41 PM

Just some random thoughts:

Re Ji Yeon's picture & Sun: A reason why Sun shows Kate only a picture of Ji Yeon as a baby could be that Sun is afraid of someone trying to kidnap Ji Yeon & use her as leverage over Sun. She (Sun) could be trying to protect Ji Yeon by not showing anyone a current picture.

Trust among the O6 seems to be pretty minimal. Thus, it seems to me to be at least reasonably likely that Sun would not trust Kate enough to show her a current picture of Ji Yeon.

It also seems to be at least reasonably likely that Sun blames Jack & Kate for Jin's death. I know we've speculated that it's Ben &/or Widmore (which, just as an aside, is spelled Whidmore in the most recent issue of TV Guide—the one w/Evangeline Lilly on the cover) that Sun blames, & in her conversations w/Widmore, Sun has blamed Ben, but as someone above pointed out, Sun doesn't know that it was Ben's actions which caused Keany to blow up the freighter. It seems logical that Sun is using Widmore for her own ends & is gaining at least a modicum of his trust by saying she wants to "get" Ben as much as he (Charles) does.

Re the people who wanted to know what made Sayid work for Ben & then stop working for Ben: Ben recruited Sayid by telling him that he (Sayid) could get revenge for Nadia's murder by working for him (Ben). My guess is that at some point Sayid realized that that was not the case & turned on Ben.

Re the Foucoult pendulum: I agree w/Clementine (thanks for the shoutout & nice to "see" you, too! : ) ) on the lack of usefulness of the pendulum in locating the island. And as another LOST watcher pointed out, why does the pendulum have to scratch a trail into the marble surface? And why the druidic robe? That entire scene seemed to me to be nothing more than a "dramatic" effect, à la The Da Vinci Code.

Does anyone else think that Mrs. Hawking resembles Isabel, the long-gone sheriff of New Otherton?

I don't think we ever saw the bridge of the Black Rock, did we? Is its steering wheel still there? Or was it removed from the ship & became the Frozen Donkey Wheel?

A really far-out idea, sparked by ealgumby's idea of two waves at 90 degrees to each other, & Daniel's description of the island as a record, & the old Star Trek episode of alternate realities: Suppose there are two realities, shaped like records, spinning at 90 degrees to each other. The time skips occur when the same character(s) "catch" each other as the records goes 'round, &/or the whispers are heard as characters from one record turn through a place where characters in the other reality are.

When Rose responded to Bernard that she had been "in the church," my first thought was that she had skipped through time & for a split second was in her own church back home.

I'm still not happy w/the inconsistencies in what objects go w/which characters when/where. For example, why would the Zodiac stay but not the camp? Surely at least some of the Losties were in the camp when Ben turned the FDW.

Is there a connection between the Arrow station & its purpose of defense & the flaming arrows that peppered the beach? And did anyone else think that the jungle was a lot farther away than as seen in the past as the Losties fled the arrow attack?

Why does Dr. Chang use a totally different name(s) in the orientation videos?

Guess I've procrastinated long enough...time for homework!

#325. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 25, 2009 1:19 PM

From old relics, like the pillar Cooper was tied to, I presumed the Temple to be an ancient place. However, in these episodes, I seem to recall it being shown on (I think) the map shown to Alex, as a dharma station. Did we see that last season??

As to Walt and returning to the Island -- Bentham visited him (per conversation with Hurly at asylum). So me thinks he needs to go back also.

#326. Posted by: mtncbn at January 25, 2009 1:50 PM

Answering my own question -- back in season four episode 8, the map shown to Alex did look like a dharma station.
'Skipped' thru current shows, and guess Wed. viewing of that map must have been in recap show.

Thanks Alaïs_Longthought: re--sheriff Isabel. And yes, I agree.

#327. Posted by: mtncbn at January 25, 2009 2:08 PM

@ 316 ilovebenjaminlinusxx > I think the producers have said the Dharma Initiative was working in the 70s and 80s.

#328. Posted by: FenwayBen at January 25, 2009 2:51 PM

Thank gods for Mac or I would have to rewatch every episode to find all the connections. Hope you're getting paid for all this, Mac! GRAA

#329. Posted by: lostinAR at January 25, 2009 8:26 PM


→ 302. Posted by: just me
What about the Dharma station found in the desert at the beginning of season 4? Was that explained?

what station in the desert? I don't remember that.
==================================
310. Posted by: mtncbn
Ahhh ... new theory.
People from the future (Hawkings crew) were threatened with extinction from the E-matter, they travel back in time to before it came into existence, and with a crew of Egyptions, encased it and put a lid on where it was going to come into existence......ETC

I like this theory! I always thought that season one was in the the middle of the whole story. Like the Star Wars films. the first 3 being the last three in sequence.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

@287 ealgumby

I would have thought of all that you thought of if I was a lot smarter. What you say, if it's right, makes sense. Thanks, because this season is going to be a confusing one. And that is what I am looking for.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
→ 313. Posted by: welh

When Yemi's plane crashed on the island, it was because the island had skipped in time to a place off the African coast; then it oscillated back in time-space to the Pacific to the 815ers timeline. See, Mrs. Hawking's use of a pendulum to find the island.........The island could have been skipping all along, like a dust magnet, collecting objects in its path in time-space like the Blackrock, the toe statue, Yemi's plane, flight 815, and in a wild tangent, the entire underground military installation of hatches located in Area 51.

I like this theory too!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
→ 322. Posted by: Clementine

The Focault pendulum would only demonstrate the rotation of the earth at her location, so I'm guessing it was used for dramatic effect, unless anyone has a suggestion as to how it could be used to find the island?

Weren't there two pendulum trails? A large one that was being traced and a smaller one next to it. I have to look at it again.?
Can you make the pendulum swing as if it were somewhere else in the world. Maybe on a pc? I have seen one at the Franklin Institute. It knocked over a peg every 15 minutes, I think. keeping time?

##################################
→ 323. Posted by: FenwayBe

I couldn't have predicted all of those things before Wednesday, but as each of those scenes (or series of scenes) began I could tell exactly where the writers were taking us.

Well, I was very surprised to see Ana Lucia! And see Chang in the opening scene - and I did not guess that Sun was on the phone. BTW Why haven't the O6 kept in touch more?

#330. Posted by: berkyo at January 25, 2009 9:46 PM

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Locke%27s_dreams

This is the Lostpedia site for Locke's dreams/visions. I think it is very relevant in regards to things that happen in the future/past. eg Locke's being shot by Ethan and the spasm he gets that forces Boone to climb the vines to the plane.

I had been wondering about he connection and what other dreams he has had. Pretty interesting.

#331. Posted by: berkyo at January 25, 2009 10:07 PM

The question of where Kate got the money - Sayid said when he killed that businessman on the golf course that they each got a substantial settlement.

@323: FenwayBen - glad I'm now not the only one to have voiced a little displeasure at the predictability of the two eps.

Someone brought up about Locke killing those people in the past - I agree that it conflicts with the "you cannot change the past" mission statement but I also feel that as a sci fit tv show there are just some things D&C won't be able to reconcile and we're just going to need to look the other way about. What matters more in a lot of these circumstances is the "spirit" of Lost and the things it's trying to put forth in the storyline. We (and people on all of the other Lost boards) are going to find every little thing that doesn't fit in to reality or to the facts as stated by D&C. It's inevitable. We need to accept that they're trying to put forth a good story at the same time as they're trying to remember and conform to every miniscule detail they've shown us to date. They're human, there's only so many hours in the day to write the scripts and shoot the episodes. As long as no bunnies are harmed ;) in the shooting of this series we should all enjoy the ride more than nitpick.

My statements in this last paragraph may seem to contradict with my "I'm disappointed" stance I've already stated regarding these two episodes but if you read what I've been unhappy about it's actually consistent. I've been unhappy with being misled or tricked for no reason more than anything else. That, and the whole "island is skipping" vs what seems more like the "people are skipping" conundrum.

On that same vein I'm hoping that the pendulum swinging being used to find the island is a real clue rather than another red herring, again not because I'm firmly grounded on one point of view or one theory but simply because I am of the opinion that if you're going to show me something and give it some prominence don't discard it or never bring it up again like so many things in the Lost storyline. It gets very frustrating to cling to some basic tenets as facts only to find they don't mean anything.

#332. Posted by: LostedIt at January 25, 2009 11:19 PM

Wow … so quiet here …

And I preemptively apologize for the length of this post, but think there might be at least a couple nuggets buried within …

Anyway, here are a few more thoughts after reviewing the epis …

Let me start with the one-hour “pre-show,” which I rewatched last night … D&C said something to the extent that the island, before being moved, was essentially invisible, and could not be seen by satellites & airplanes flying right over it … hmm, will get back to that later. Seconds, they explicitly said the island had moved through space-time to another location … hmm again, and will get back to that.

Next, let me jump right ahead to “the compass” … here are screen snaps of the compass Richard presented to little Locke in “Cabin Fever” and the one presented to big Locke this season:

tinyurl.com/bk7kn7

Note that they are NOT the same! However, they ARE very similar, and I suspect they are intended to be the same (?) … perhaps yet another prop slip up (“uh, we don’t HAVE that compass anymore, Damon!”). What also struck me as VERY interesting, is that the little Locke compass is English (NSEW = North South East West), while the “new” big Locke/Richard compass is Spanish (NSEO = Norte Sur Este Oeste), or possibly French (NSEO = Nord, Sud, Est, Ouest). Don’t have any idea what that means. Also noted they’re pointing about the same direction … again, no idea what that means, if anything.

Okay, just skipping around here in random thoughts, but this occurred to me … if the Losties are jumping around in time on the island, might Bunny #15 from the orchid video be doing the same? In other words, might Bunny #15 be skipping through time as well, and just happened to land in the middle of the Orchid video taping, back in time, perhaps from “The Incident?” This made me think … what would happen if the Losties, skipping through time, end up back on top of themselves, still skipping through time? Can this happen? If so, what then?

This occurred to me when I noticed that upon the third time skip, John ended up back under the smoking plane, pretty close to where he was after the first skip. Can he bump into himself while skipping? It also makes me wonder where Ethan went when John skipped back under the smoking plane the second time? Did Ethan just not notice John that time?

On that note, why do certain people “skip” and others do not? Let’s see … among the “skippers” we have the Losties, plus Charlotte, Miles, and Daniel (okay, so far, sorta) … but what about Juliet? Has she lost her island mojo by joining the Losties (despite her tat), and is hence doomed to skip with them, as opposed to the other Others who are not? What of Des? How, exactly, does Daniel know “he’s special?” Because he’s not skipping? Huh? Nosebleed …

Also, why do certain Lostie things skip and others do not? Their base camp was composed mostly of 815 wreckage, so it doesn’t seem to be a matter of whether or not “stuff” came from the island or not. Okay, maybe only people (or animals … Vincent made it! He was seen before/during the arrow attack!) will skip … but then what of their clothes … and the Zodiac, and Daniel’s backpack? What of John’s bullet in his leg, or Richard’s compass? Hmm … maybe only things in physical contact with the Losties, or within “their radii” will skip along with them? So, what would’ve happened if they all had hunkered down on top of the hatch when the skip occurred … would the hatch have gone with them? There seems to be an inconsistency here, but I suppose necessary in terms of the narrative.

Speaking of the bullet in John’s leg … earlier on, Daniel said “either the island is, or we are” with respect to moving through time. Later (so to speak) when Richard was pulling the bullet out of Locke’s leg, he said “I didn’t go anywhere John, you went.” That implies the island is on a constant timeline, while the Losties are skipping … I know, pretty apparent, but worth noting, I think. I also thought it was funny when, upon John commenting that Ethan shot him, Richard replied “what comes around, goes around.” Hmm … opposite of the normal phraseology. Did Ethan seal his future fate by shooting John? I’m also intrigued by the whole John/Richard exchange of Richard knowing exactly where to find John with the bullet in his leg, before John told him … future epi ref? Also intrigued by John asking “how am I supposed to do that?” in response to being told he must bring the O6 back to the island, and Richard’s reply, “You’re gonna have to die, John.” Hmm … Before I leave this scene (which I think may be the most significant of the epis), I must comment on Rishard’s exhortation that he (Richard) will not know John the next time they meet … this leads me to believe Richard knows John will next appear “back in time,” rather than in the future. How? I think he knows the nature of the skipping … that is, they oscillate back in forth through time … so if now in the “future,” then next back in the past … this bears upon Mrs. Hawkings equations later on …

One potentially minor plot point that doesn’t make sense to me … skipping again, sorry … how does Sawyer know Desmond will be in the hatch after the third skip? Just because the hatch is there, gives no bearing upon what time frame they are in … what if he pounded on the door, and Radzinsky had been there instead of Des? Then what? I suppose one could argue Daniel knew Des would be there, because of whatever he had written in his notebook, but Sawyer had no knowledge of such! Maybe THEN we would’ve gotten the “snowman” question?!

I know, running long … but SO many questions left to answer!!!

Okay, other random things …

The “Jack Shephard” phone number is 323-555-0156 … as noted before, this is a bogus directory assistance number, but 323 is in LA anyway … have no idea what the significance (if any) of 0156 is.

What is in Ben’s secret “vent box?” Did anyone else think of “No Country For Old Men?” Did anyone else think of my earlier disturbing Lost caption post with the unscrewed vent cover? Any other Lost-related vent incidents?

Why doesn’t Frank need to return? I suggest he doesn’t, only because he hasn’t shown up on the imdb cast list for this season (at least through epi 10), but those cast lists have been known to be red herrings in the past. On that note, Jin’s appearance on each cast list so far noted, as “credit only” … I think they’re just not giving things away, as to whether he’s really dead or not …

Also via imdb, he know the three “attackers” upon Sawyer and Juliet are Jones, Mattingly, and Cunningham … via the video, one can clearly make out the first two, and partial of the third. According to imdb, Jones and Cunningham are supposed to return in a future epi … real, or not? Random point related to them … at that point in time, the Losties are back to when the drug plane just crashed. Ostensibly, this would be BEFORE “The Incident,” and Dharma would be battling “the hostiles” (based upon the Arrow video being taped at the beginning of the epis) … as such, and perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t think anyone has suggested this yet … J, M, & C are DHARMA security forces! This would account for them carrying 60’s era guns (and yes, I KNOW they are older … but consider they are more or less a mercenary force, using third-party weapons) and wearing nondescript uniforms. This would also (possibly) account for the Hostile/Others “arrow attack” (see previous link for pic of arrow attack). There are a HELL of a lot of flaming arrows launched … but no “frontal assault” so to speak, and no use of “modern” weapons … why?

I have a theory on that, too … perhaps, it is impossible to bring “modern” technology into the past via the island’s strange properties, but “old” tech can be brought forward. This is why “The Others” always seem to be behind the times in terms of tech … they can travel to the future, but CANNOT bring tech from the future back with them! Hence all of the “old” tech we have seen throughout the show used by the Others … maybe there’s some kind of “rule” which prevents them from bringing something back in time which hasn’t been invented yet???

So, Mrs. Hawking has to do her “calculations” on a very old computer (again, see the previously mentioned link to pics) … why else use such an antique? Perhaps this all relates somehow to the “what does and does not skip” question, I don’t know.

From there, on to “Ms. Monk” and her equations on the board … does she have future knowledge? Or only the means to USE current knowledge in the time she has been dropped? We can see her equations on the black board (why not a white board? … just old school?) … I’m no quantum physicist, but I still see things I kinda recognize … a phase space diagram, a Hamiltonian energy equation, a tensor equation, “silent intervals + event probability,” and a Riemannian manifold equation … what does it all mean? To me, it points to a Cauchy sequence answer to a Hilbert space problem (harmonic convergence to a particular solution) … in short, where the “island” is apt to end up … followed by the archaic computer screen yielding “Event Window Determined.” Mrs. Hawking knows when/where the next, perhaps last, opportunity the visit the island will appear again … 70 hours from now.

Okay, now gonna get very theoretical on you, but just for a moment ... how can an island disappear via just time travel? Suppose you’re on Hawaii, and we go back in time 500 years … guess what? Hawaii is still there! The island has NOT disappeared. Or more formally, say we go back in time 500 years from now in space-time … the island will NOT be there, nor will the Earth … the Earth is rotating about the sun at high velocity, the sun is orbiting the galaxy at even higher velocity, and the galaxy is receding from the origin of the universe at even higher velocity … you’d be floating out in the middle of empty space! Hence, moving through time ALONE does NOT account for being on the island at different times in the past/future … the “Lost” mythology must have a way of passing through time without losing ones “relative place” within the space-time continuum.

What if one were “just close” to the right place due to a space-time jump? Could that account for the island being in different places around the globe at different times? NO … suppose we “jumped” to within several hundred, or even thousand miles, of where we were “supposed” to be, as others have suggested (picking up objects around the world at different times) … why would we end up on the surface of the earth, as opposed to miles beneath its surface, or orbiting the planet as a new moon? The odds of ending up on the surface of the earth are REMOTELY small … most likely one would end up within or without of the earth, if a “small” error where introduced. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE for any “space-time” traversal to end up on the surface of planet Earth!

Think about it … the mean radius of the Earth is 3958 miles, and habitable altitude of the earth above sea level is generally with one mile (Denver anyone?), but let’s just say for the sake of argument two miles. The volume of the Earth at sea level would then be (4/3)pi(r^3), or about 260 trillion cubic miles (259.726330025 mi^3). With the habitable Earth as a realm above that, the volume would be 260.120252602 cubic miles. Therefore, the odds of the island landing, even within the habitable film of the Earth would be about 1/6 of one percent, if the island were restricted to such! In other words … the island CANNOT be moving randomly through space-time … it HAS to be fixed to a determinable set of end-points on the planet.

Yet, D&C said the island moved through space-time … how could they be wrong? By default, they cannot be … so there MUST be an answer. MY answer goes back to the FDW, and its use as a form of a Faraday rotator. D&C said the island was invisible to modern tech BEFORE the island moved … therefore, my theory about “polarization” of the island still holds water. ALSO, different polarizations result in different speeds of light, as proven in current knowledge by Iceland Spar … perhaps the different polarizations of the island result is different time flow, but a similar mechanism. So when Ben moved the FDW ninety degrees (and he DID … watch it again if you don’t believe me … he moved it EXACTLY 90 degrees!), the polarity of the island changed, and the Losties (et al) got sucked into an alternate realm of reality, where they were not at stasis, and had to follow a Cauchy sequence (settling to an exact destination) according to Hilbert space mechanics, before they would stop skipping through time. I know, BS … but what in the area of science isn’t on Lost?

Not entirely satisfied, but close enough for now …

Nose bleeds anyone?

#333. Posted by: ealgumby at January 25, 2009 11:20 PM

If Sawyer #2 w/o shirt skipped into Sawyer #3 w/ Frogurt's shirt on, what would Sawyer #2 say to Sawyer #3?

Does it matter to any of the Sawyer fans? My girlfriend says it doesn't matter as long as they both end up without a shirt ...

She also says ... as long as Des comes back in time simultaneously, we don't need the hot Scots replicator either! Any other guys out there feeling rather inadequate with this thought? Grr ...

#334. Posted by: ealgumby at January 26, 2009 12:34 AM

Timing question?
I know the O6 were supposed to be rescued after 180 days. But what time frame has each season been:

Season 1-4 180 days so March 2005?

Season 5: 3 years to arrive at March 2008?

Season 6: starts when?

I agree with the thought that this season will be the next 70 hours. Trying to see if there is significance of the approx mth at the end of 70 hours.

#335. Posted by: Rudy at January 26, 2009 9:55 AM

Because of the pendulum questions, I have decided to re-post a pre-season theory about the island moving:

Ancient Egyptians vs. The Losties.

An Answer to the question: how do you move an island? Yank it’s chain.

The island is part of a clock constructed by the ancient Egyptians to interface with their after world spirit gods, who would judge their body double and soul (ka) after death to see if one was worthy to be reunited with their body (reincarnation) and sent back to the Earth world. There are two separate worlds at play: the human world (Earth) and a spirit world.

The island is part of a spirit world pendulum. The island (“snow globe”) is the bob at the end of an electromagnetic and gravity field stream that has a the pivot point is in the earth’s core. The island then arcs on a plane from the North Pole, through England, Europe, Tunisia-Egypt, Bali, Pacific Ocean-Fiji to Portland, Oregon. The path of the pendulum arc intersects our Earth world with the parallel spirit world of ancient Egyptian religion. The ancient Egyptians searched for this nexus to prove the truths of their religious beliefs. And once they found the intersection point for life and death, the island became the judgment temple for souls since it was part of the gateway from the human world and the spirit world.

The problem with seeing or finding the island is that its pendulum arc is different than the rotation of the earth (earth time) and the pendulum is on a different (spirit world) plane. In order to make sure their pharaohs would get to the afterlife, ancient priests found a way to match the time references to the arc to create an interface between the earth and spirit worlds (and ingress-egress to-from the island). This is why Alpert (who I think is an Egyptian temple priest) was so insistent that Juliet leave Florida “right away” to get to Portland, because he knew that was the spirit arc’s slowest oscillation point was there, and it was the critical to get to that location at that specific time.

In a pendulum clock, there is a “regulator” of the arc called an “escapement” This regulates and keeps the “time” consistent at set intervals. It also releases any tension build up on the pendulum to keep the mechanism in synch. The Swan station (The Hatch) was the pendulum mechanism regulator; every 108 minutes the electromagnetic tension build up from the earth core EM-gravity field stream had to be released to keep the pendulum in its regulated time path. When the Hatch was destroyed, the regulator was destroyed which now allows the pendulum to swing faster (i.e. the island moving away from the freighter in Faraday’s rocket experiment).

If you focus solely on a pinpoint on the bob of a grandfather clock pendulum when it reaches the bottom of its arc, and continue to focus on that point, the bob will return to view on a regular basis. Focal point at the bottom of a grandfather clock, you only see the disc when it reaches the bottom arch. If you suddenly move the chain up, on the next pass the disc would be “gone.” It is in a different level or plane. This is the theory of why the island “vanished” without creating a massive water vortex from the displacement of its 13,000 feet of volcanic mass.

In a pendulum clock, there is also a mechanism called the gear or wheel train. It connects with the power source (here the electromagnetic energy stream; why no metal allowed to turn the gears), usually to step up the power so the pendulum can use it. The Orchid station’s donkey wheel is the gear train mechanism which “changes” the length of the pendulum energy stream, and in turn, changing the visible arch plane and its relative speed to the ratio of the rotation of the earth.

Now, where were the people “deposited” when the island “vanished?” Those still within the confines of the snow globe, like Faraday’s raft, would remain on the island bob. The Oceanic 6 raft was outside the snow globe effect, so they would be off the island bob and inside the parallel plane of the spirit world. This would explain all the factual errors, legal inconsistencies, etc. in the O6 storyline which made no sense to us in our world, but could make sense in a different world (like Alice in Wonderland, Dorothy in Oz, or Chihiro in the bath house in Spirited Away).

The Oceanic 6 never got “home” to their real families. They were living in a parallel “fantasy” world. When Ben said everyone had to return to the island, including Locke’s body, it reminds me of the Egyptian reunification theory of the body and soul together were necessary for reincarnation. It also could mean that everyone was needed to balance a universal principle (like conservation of mass or energy) which could be why “bad things” happened to the island once the O6 left. Maybe part of them remained as the evil spirits (ghosts) of Jack, Kate and Sayid who terrorized the inhabitants, and thereby ruining Sawyer’s attempts to hook up with Juliet.

If the island is part of a large clock mechanism to the afterlife, that would explain why the island is so important to people like Widmore. If you can control the afterlife clock, can you effectively “cheat death” and remain immortal? Can you use the mechanism to create a time machine? Can you release the powerful underworld gods of destruction into the Earth world to eliminate your enemies in order to rule the world like a modern pharaoh?

#336. Posted by: welh at January 26, 2009 10:57 AM

Looking forward to Wednesday!
I don't think they would have put Ana Lucia in there just for charity. She tells Hugo NOT to get arrested. I think the people that went to see Kate, the ones that went after Sayid and the supposed cops are working for Widmore. Both Widmore and Ben are trying to get the O6 first. Ana Lucia warns Hugo because she knows they're not real cops.

#337. Posted by: Steve at January 26, 2009 11:09 AM

What happened to all the other dharma vw vans? There were lots of them around the compound. Now the only one left is the Linus van.

#338. Posted by: mtncbn at January 26, 2009 11:23 AM

Acronym time: ISPBSV? Is Locke Paralyzed By Spider Venom?

@mac - I agree with LostedIt - the short reviews are good, but I miss laughing my head off for 1/2 hour while reading the longer ones.

@jst/167 - I think you are right about Claire dying when the house exploded. I thought that when it happened. Or something completely different has happened to her. We never saw her death or body, yet she ended up in Jacob's shack. Why is she the only one who doesn't want Aaron to return to the island? Everyone else is pushing for it. We know Ben is only out for himself. It's looking like a lose-lose scenario to me, which is a bit odd for a TV show. The O6 are not doing well since they returned, but if they go back, I believe more bad things will happen to them. But Ben wants them to go back, which means he expects some benefit to himself. Since he's taking Locke, he doesn't fear a power struggle. (Whether Locke is alive or dead doesn't matter as far as that goes.)

Walt is special, but Ben is afraid of him - can't control him. That's why he's not insisting on his return.

And who is Christian? Is he Jacob? I think he said he's not, but I don't know if that's true or if he's a competing entity. Christian's body was dead when he arrived on the island, so maybe that's why it's available for use.

So we're left with competing factions who want control of the island. I'm waiting for Widmore to show up & start explaining his e-vil plan, while Kyle, Stan & Cartman yell, "Don't care, don't care, don't care."

#339. Posted by: hurling at January 26, 2009 11:32 AM

@→ 307. Posted by: ealgumby
Excellent! Spill it!

#340. Posted by: hurling at January 26, 2009 11:38 AM

@ 336. Posted by: welh

Thank you, that was very helpful, Welh.

Tell me, if the "clock's chain" was pulled up 90 degrees and this caused the chaos, then why not just turn it back 90 degrees to stop the chaos and drop the chain back to it's original position? Why does Locke have to die and the why do the O6 have to return to make things right on the island? It seems like this could be a quick fix...surely Richard Alpert know about the FDW... why can't he just adjust it? Why can't RA go forward in time and stop Jack from calling the mercenaries and giving them a fix on the island's location? Or why can't he go to the time where Desmond didn't push the button and made 815 crash in the first place and make sure that doesn't happen?

#341. Posted by: Skipper at January 26, 2009 11:55 AM

333. Posted by: ealgumby - arg, bad math ... not that it matters, but volume is ~260 Billion cubic miles, not trillion. It just bothered me ...

#342. Posted by: ealgumby at January 26, 2009 12:13 PM

@341/Skipper

I don't know why Alpert wouldn't use the FDW to go back and forth (or maybe he is).
But if you opened a portal to an enormous energy source, like Ben did, wouldn't you die as the massive amount of energy consumes you?

Which gets me back to a very early thread several seasons ago: life and death.
Alpert told Locke the only way to bring back the O6 was "to die." Was that meant to "die" on the island and be transported to the O6 world? or "to die" in the O6 world to return to the island? Or both?
It may be "The Lie" that all of the O6 must return, because when Michael and Walt left, the island did not spin out of control. If all of the 815ers have to return, would that not include Jin and Michael who were on the freighter?

So could it possible that "death" is the mechanism of time teleportation to/from the island? (So we are dealing with multiple afterlives in multiple universes.)

#343. Posted by: welh at January 26, 2009 1:16 PM

Watching Rose and Bernard argue over how to get a fire started reinvigorated my theory that ALL marriages are the same.

#344. Posted by: Rich in Baltimore at January 26, 2009 1:17 PM

@203 - Sillygirl0630
Why do you assume that's a young Widmore?

Because he has all his hair and no wrinkles.

#345. Posted by: jst at January 26, 2009 1:17 PM

@307 ealgumby rhymed:

>I'm dating a fellow poster,
Wouldn't you like to know who?

Well, Yes...

#346. Posted by: Cecil at January 26, 2009 1:31 PM

-all of eal's posts = perpetual nose bleeds. But keep 'em coming.

I can't imagine when you have time to eat, sleep and work, let alone date!

#347. Posted by: lovelost at January 26, 2009 1:37 PM

@319 The REALdavidrh queried:

>BTW: Did anybody notice the screen picture of all the Lost Bloggers on Mrs. Hawkings computer?

The Simpsons version or the [as yet unrevealed] South Park version?

And where the heck is bcre8ive anyhow?

#348. Posted by: Cecil at January 26, 2009 1:38 PM

hurling/@339 - Why is she the only one who doesn't want Aaron to return to the island?

The fortune teller warned her, early on, she must give up the baby. My guess, if Aaron comes back she would be in his life again. Evidently that would not be good for Aaron...

#349. Posted by: jst at January 26, 2009 1:43 PM

ealgumby, at half-a-beast, asked:

>kay, now gonna get very theoretical on you, but just for a moment ... how can an island disappear via just time travel? Suppose you’re on Hawaii, and we go back in time 500 years … guess what? Hawaii is still there! The island has NOT disappeared.

There's my theory - the island *never* existed until it jumped back from the future, existed for a while, then jumped back to become itself.

#350. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 26, 2009 1:51 PM

Most important thing everyone needs to remember is that when it's all said and done, Ben is the bad guy. Always has been. Always will be.

#351. Posted by: Lupi at January 26, 2009 1:56 PM

-343 welh says: But if you opened a portal to an enormous energy source, like Ben did, wouldn't you die as the massive amount of energy consumes you?

Maybe Ben IS dead...on the Island...but not while time-traveling. Maybe that's why he cannot go back to the Island. He's dead there. (Whatever THAT means.)

I also previously wondered: can the portal be closed and is that the only way to stop the time-skipping? Maybe there's another FDW somewhere? (No, not the ship's wheel.)

→ 285 Kathy says: has anyone noticed that most of the time when Daniel Farady consults his notebook, he goes from back to front? I wonder if he's from the future? Hmmmm.

Hmmmm, indeed.

#352. Posted by: lovelost at January 26, 2009 2:00 PM

Most people read things like magazines from back to front (advertisers will back this up). Check it out next time you pick up a magazine. Lots of times it is easier for the hands to flip through from back to front.

#353. Posted by: brainblur at January 26, 2009 2:07 PM

For those still hoping for scientific credibility in Lost:

The latest issue of Scientific American has an article on "naked singularities".

A singularity is a place in space-time where the laws of the normal universe break down, due to abnormal concentrations of matter or energy (sasme thing, really, see e=mc**2).

The cosmic origins in the single microsopic speck of matter from whence the big-bang sprung are such a singularity - so energy dense that the universe that sprang from it could not be explained by any current scientific theory. But that no longer exists, after having given birth to everything-that-is.


When a sufficiently massive star collapses and forms a black hole, it creates a singularity - a dense form of matter to which scientific law as we know it cannot apply. But that singularity is "cloaked", being inside the event horizon of the black hole, from which nothing can emerge, not even light (hence "black hole") due to the strength of gravity. Because nothing inside the event horizon can communicate with anything outside the event horizon, we are saved from having to deal with the possiblity of normal matter interacting with regions in which scientific law breaks down.

However, now scientists posit there are intial conditions of star collaps, having to do with density distribution, rotation, and electical charge, that may make it possible for a star to collapse *without* forming an event horizon.

This leads to the possibility that normal matter (you, me, the world) may be able to approach regions where physical law breaks down and no longer applies, and return from such regions, thus having things normally impossible occur.

Such as islands moving and/or time travelling, people time travelling, dogs lying down with cats, all the signs of the apocalypse.

So, perhaps the "exotic matter" under the Orchis is a naked singlarity, and turning the FDW somehow releases/controls it.

#354. Posted by: Cecil at January 26, 2009 2:10 PM

@ 349. Posted by: jst
But then later she was told that only *she* could raise Aaron. However, now that (we think) she's dead, maybe he needs to be kept away from the island. (To deter Ben?)

@ 352. Posted by: lovelost
Maybe Faraday is lefthanded, does anyone remember?

Is the island formed from a volcanic eruption? Is the little island part of that? How else are islands formed? It'd have to be WAY in the future to form from lava & then develop all that flora. Candle/Wick/Chang would've had to have known the island was going to appear in the future. If he was from the future, why did he move the island to the 70's to start his Dharma experiments. I don't buy any of that. I don't buy the island's disappearance due soley to time-shifting. I think it's being moved into another dimension. It wasn't time-shifting before the FDW was turned, yet it wasn't visible. Except for that split second when the hatch blew up. Remember all the old snow globe theories, and how we thought Michael & Walt wouldn't really get home. That heading everyone had to follow (and it was the same for leaving & returning) was the only way out of that dimension.
(Hope this is clear; didn't want to make it too long.)

#355. Posted by: hurling at January 26, 2009 2:19 PM

And where the heck is bcre8ive anyhow?
348. Posted by: Cecil


You don't supposed our friend has been transported into the . . . .


fuuuuu-ture-ure-ure-ure-ure . . .


do you?

This is all very mysterious. It's like watching the Bid Bang Theory . .but all the nerds are . . DEAD serious! . .


nuk-nuk-nuk . . Cecil?
nuk-nuk-nuk . . Cecil?
nuk-nuk-nuk . . Cecil?
nuk-nuk-nuk . .

#356. Posted by: The REALdavidrh at January 26, 2009 2:52 PM

@354/Cecil
Your post on black holes reminded me of the recent discussion of "white holes."

Per wikipedia:
In astrophysics, a white hole is the theoretical time reversal of a black hole. While a black hole acts as a vacuum, drawing in any matter that crosses the event horizon, a white hole acts as a source that ejects matter from its event horizon. The sign of the acceleration is invariant under time reversal, so both black and white holes attract matter. The only potential difference between them is in the behavior at the horizon.

Black hole event horizons can only "suck up" matter, while white hole horizons ostensibly recede from any incoming matter at the local speed of light, so that the infalling matter never crosses. The infalling matter is then scattered and reemitted at the death of the white hole, receding to infinity after having come close to the final singular point where the white hole is destroyed

Recent specualtion proposes that black holes might be interpreted as shedding some light on the nature of classical white holes. Some researchers proposed that when a black hole forms, a big bang occurs at the core, which creates a new universe that expands into extra dimensions outside of the parent universe.

The initial feeding of matter from the parent universe's black hole and the expansion that follows in the new universe might be thought of as a cosmological type of white hole. Unlike traditional white holes, this type of white hole would not be localized in space in the new universe, and its horizon would have to be identified with the cosmological horizon.

The problem with white holes is that they violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which states that any closed ordered system becomes more disorganized (if you drop an egg, it will become a disordered mess, but a disordered mess will never spontaneously form a perfect egg), and so a system which adds order to a system is not possible. This is why many believe that a white hole can not exist.

#357. Posted by: welh at January 26, 2009 2:53 PM

O....M.....G....

That giant splattering sound that you just heard? That was my head exploding. : > ; > ; >

Another random thought: Daniel said that time is linear. But a line can be something other than a straight line, no? A spiral is a line...so is a circle, for that matter.

Also, it's apparent that the island &/or the people on it have traveled back & forth on the timeline. But have they traveled ahead of the time in which they started? That is to say, have the Losties gone ahead of December 2004/January 2005, or just back into the past & forward again to a point no later than December 2004/January 2005? Is this why Daniel keeps saying that things can't be changed, because the Losties have already lived through that time period? Perhaps the "special" people (Desmond, Ben(?), etc.) are the only ones who can actually go forward in time, past the present, & thus they're the only ones who would have the ability to change things?

#358. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 26, 2009 3:12 PM

=============0=======0

Maybe someone can lead me in the right direction:

Does anyone know of a site of information or a blog, etc that might have EVERY SINGLE still unanswered mystery about LOST? Like a comprehensive list or collection of mysteries that are still unsolved?

Y'know, like the Smoke Monster, Adam and Eve, Walt's power, Locke's childhood, the Numbers, etc...etc....

????????

Ya see, what I am worried about as a fan, is that when the seasons are all wrapped up over the next two years, that there will still be some questions that never got answered. Maybe not the big important ones, but the little ones that they slip in every so often. Like, they'll forget about some and there will be these little danglers without solutions.

It would be cool to have a complete list of "WTF" bulletpoints that can be checked off to make sure we have all the answers... there has to be some obsessive LOST fan out there to have done this... anyone?.... anyone?... BUELLER??

Ahhh, it feels good to be back!!!

Mr.Naysayer

===============0==========0

#359. Posted by: Mr. Naysayer at January 26, 2009 3:40 PM

@101/welh
"The concept of the camp people moving through time but the camp equipment which was with them at the same time and location not moving makes no sense."

This made me think about the video Locke watched at the Orchid station at the end of last season(ABC ran it the week before). In it, Chang says "Great care must be taken to avoid leaving inorganic materials inside the chamber." Is that related or even important? Who knows? It seems that some inorganic material can "skip" but some can't.

You guys also remember the first Orchid video? Which actually seems to follow this one. In it Chang is holding bunny #15 and then a second #15 appears on a shelf behind him. Went back and watched that and Chang seems extremely concerned that the two not get near each other. Also, they talk about setting the "shift" to -20 and that somehow relating to "9 minutes".

No conclusions, but it does seem like it would be possible to meet yourself, but not very good for your health. And they also seem to be controlling the jumps, or at least think they are.

Just something else to throw into the mix.

#360. Posted by: Brian at January 26, 2009 3:56 PM

Why was Locke able to kill the soldiers, when that would be changing the past??

#361. Posted by: thelostwaltz at January 26, 2009 4:18 PM

After rewatching the two episodes over the weekend, the one big question that left me wondering what was "The Lie." The title of the second hour was singular, as in the Big Lie (even though there were numerous other lies, falsehoods and omissions throughout the storyline). The inference was that the Lie was the O6 covery story to the press, but that seems trivial in the whole scheme of things. What is the biggest lie told to us?

So my nominations for "The Lie":
1) That because the O6 left the island, the remaining folks have had "bad things" happen to them.
2) That all of the O6 survivors have to return to the island, together, to correct what is happening on the island.
3) That in order to get the O6 back to the island, Locke must die.
4) That the island/people are time skipping.

#362. Posted by: weh at January 26, 2009 4:27 PM

@361 thelostwaltz wondered:

>Why was Locke able to kill the soldiers, when that would be changing the past??

How do you know? Maybe they always died then. It's not like we've seen these same soldiers at some future time. Maybe their fate was always to be killed by a time travelling Locke at that time and place.

#363. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 26, 2009 4:28 PM

BTW, for any "House" fans that missed this, "House" is on Monday nights at 8PM now.

Obligatory Lost Content: "Not changing the past" effectively means "Not changing what we already know about the past."

If you can travel to the past, you obviously change something, i.e. footprints, bloodstains, oxygen consumed, carbon dioxide given off, etc. Thangs that wouldn't have happened if you weren't there.

Not changing the past means you can't change something that is already known. I.e. If, on a given day in the past, you didn't meet yourself walking down the street, you can't go back and meet yourself walking down the street. You can, of course, go back and observe yourself, sight unseen by the earlier self.

#364. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 26, 2009 4:35 PM

Someone submitted their LOST dream on this blog:
http://31dreamers.blogspot.com/2009/01/providence-possessed-part-1.html

#365. Posted by: Morgan at January 26, 2009 4:46 PM

@359 Mr. MNaysayer asked:

>Does anyone know of a site of information or a blog, etc that might have EVERY SINGLE still unanswered mystery about LOST? Like a comprehensive list or collection of mysteries that are still unsolved?

Lists abound on several sites. As good a place as any to check for such things is Lostpedia at:

lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

searching there leads you to:


lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questions

lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Character_secrets

latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/01/lost-48-pending.html

#366. Posted by: alabamao68 at January 26, 2009 4:54 PM

Mrs. Hawking says they must get back in 70 hours. Maybe she calculated that the Island would be back/visible/accessible in 70 hours.

We've seen signs of Daniel's forgetfulness before (the cards). We know that Des is his constant and I think we saw Dan searching his notebook once before to determine that. Now he was doing it again. Maybe you need more constant contact with your constant the longer you time-jump.

I'm even more confused when I think back to when Daniel previously told Desmond to give him the numbers in the Oxford lab. And now he tells him to find his mother at Oxford. So, this is the second time that Dan is asking Des to do something in the future/past/present.

I think Charlotte needs to find her constant to stop the nosebleeds. I think Dan knows who it is. Maybe his mother.

The Big Lie could be when Daniel said, "you can't change the past." Maybe you can.

#367. Posted by: lovelost at January 26, 2009 4:58 PM

Tidbit gleaned from another source: Chang in the comic-con film refered to the baby as him.

#368. Posted by: mtncbn at January 26, 2009 7:17 PM

Trivial point, I presume.
When Hurly brought Sayid into dad's house, they plopped him on the red couch. After the cops left, they picked Sayid up from the pool table, and moved him to the red couch.

#369. Posted by: mtncbn at January 26, 2009 8:22 PM

More trivia
How is it that Sawyer and Juliet are split up from everyone else 'headed to meet up with the rest of the group at the 'wet part' of the creek' when they come upon the hand choppers?

#370. Posted by: mtncbn at January 26, 2009 8:49 PM

I posted yesterday the Lospedia site with the info on Lock's dreams. Part of it is this scene -
"Of note: in the scene of Sawyer and Kate standing at the security line (run by Ben), he tells her, "Wipe the stars out of your eyes, sweetheart...watch and learn little lady." In the next episode, "Every Man for Himself", while devising his plan to shock Pickett with the fish biscuit dispenser, Sawyer says to Kate: "Watch and learn little lady...[explains the plan]... Wipe the stars out of your eyes, sweetheart..." Since this had not yet happened in the previous episode, and the two were on separate islands, it is regarded as a premonition. So I watched that epi again- Further Instructions."

We see Sawyer and Kate but we cannot hear what they are saying. So Most of us would have missed that dialogue - unless you read the script or have one of the audio expert posters tell you what it said. Not Fair! But really cool.

I really like the science that Ealgumby is treating us too. I would not know if it was all correct or not, But I had been feeling a little time jumpy myself not knowing what the heck to base any of the 2 epis we have seen on. "I don't understand him....But I believe him."

Welh's theory, on the other hand, is easier to swallow because it has a direct correlation with the pendulum in the Ms H's basement hatch in the church.
I really like this as I think this answers almost all the questions I have on the island hopping /time jumping problem. ;))))


#371. Posted by: berkyo at January 26, 2009 8:57 PM

@371/berkyo

First of all, thanks! Glad you enjoy my rather random ramblings ...

Second, I too, find welh's theory appealing ... except for one thing; the Earth is NOT a sphere! The equatorial radius of the planet is ~3963 miles, while the polar radius is ~3949 miles. The shape of the planet is often referenced as "an oblate sphere," with dimples and bulges here and there of many miles in scale. It would take quite the hauling of the FDW to account for the difference between polar/equatorial radii ... unless that's somehow taken into account with the swing of the pendulum (?).

Still, within the realm of Lost mythology ... who knows? It DOES make for the nice pendulumesque (is that a word?) scratches on the (interior?) of the globe, as shown on Ms. Hawkings computer screen and/or her Dan Brown "Da Vinci Code" floor!

#372. Posted by: ealgumby at January 26, 2009 10:07 PM

334 posted by ealgumby

Richard replied “what comes around, goes around.” Hmm … opposite of the normal phraseology.

I also picked up on that. I figured since I'm east coast that they may say it differently on the west coast. Too simple an explanation?

Also, when Ben asks Jack if Locke told him what happened to the people after the island moved, Jack replied 'no' and Ben comes back with "then I guess we'll never know." If they're going back to the island, wouldn't they find out what happened? Ben makes it sound as if everyone is dead.

Sometimes I think there are more hints in the dialog than we pick up.

Does anyone think that Charlotte might be Ben's daughter by Annie? She's obviously spent her adult life looking for any connection to Dharma. My thinking is that Ben only knows what Michael told him about the people on the boat. Maybe she has a false background because of Widmore. I'm not sure but I thought I saw Ben in a flashback wearing a wedding ring.

If Chang had a baby sometime after 1973 (based on Willie Nelson's record), and the incident is the cause of the deaths of the babies, Ben certainly would have sent her away.

Do you think Daniel's appearance at the Orchid was 'real time' and not time travel? Could he have caused the incident?

Keep up the good work everyone on the time travel theories. That's way too far over my head to figure that one out.

#373. Posted by: pebspostal at January 26, 2009 10:11 PM

@340/ hurling, @346/Cecil, @347/lovelost, …

If you’d like to know, then solve this quiz
Her name’s revealed, if you’re an anagram whiz
This riddle provides, an answer of sorts
A four-word message, with the solution it purports

First falls as rain, then hits like rock
Second a name for you, of Biblical stock
Third the show, we all adore
Last a group, of elk, not boar

If you can’t solve this riddle, then here’s a cheat
Find 980711’s, silly number sheet
Search the Random Topic Area, within it may lie
A table of digits, the better your mind to fry:

32,17,96.30,9,27.48,50,51.33,23,
133.34,19,143-84,66,71.18,57,
105.114,103,86.118,84,81.19,18,
71.82,127,58.103,83,57.38,65,
112.135,125,128.105,13,97.123,67,131

#374. Posted by: ealgumby at January 26, 2009 10:31 PM

372: "... nice pendulumesque (is that a word?)
______It is now!

373: what comes around goes around: "I figured since I'm east coast that they may say it differently on the west coast."
_______I'm from Caifornia;we say it the same way you do.

Re: Locke faking his own death considering we know that you can't die if the island isn't done with you, my inclination is to think the island is not done with Locke, ergo: Locke is merely dead, he is not most sincerely dead.

Reminds me of a favorite quote. Years ago after a Star Trek movie debuted, Leonard Nimoy was asked if Spock was really dead he said, "There is no such thing as dead in sci-fi and soap operas."

#375. Posted by: undaunted at January 27, 2009 7:57 AM

I was just explaining a friend of mine this eppisode and I just realized one thing: Every time the island met a plane, there was a dead body in the plane:

* Jack carried Christian coffin
* Oceanic 6 (will) carry Lock´s coffin
* Drug dealers plane were carring Ekko´s brother.

We have seen Ekko´s brother and Christian on the island. We will surely see Looke.

Seems that the entrance ticket to the island is a dead body

#376. Posted by: Martin at January 27, 2009 9:05 AM

@374. Posted by: ealgumby

Love the red herring, but I'd forgotten about that numbers post, pretty funny.

Was sure it was gonna turn out to be bcre8ve, but it's

Alaïs Longthought, minus the umlaut

Much happiness to you both.

#377. Posted by: hurling at January 27, 2009 9:33 AM

Nobody here today & hurling is bored, "working" from home. (I usually do work, but I'm not too busy today.) So hurling will ask lots of personal questions of the happy couple, Alaïs & ealgumby:
Did you really meet here on the forum?
Where was your first R/L meeting? Did either of you have your finger on speed-dial to the police in case the other turned out to be an axe murderer?
Did you invite Mac on your first date?
How does ealgumby compare (shirtless) to Sawyer & Desmond?

#378. Posted by: hurling at January 27, 2009 11:40 AM

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

Beat me to it hurling.

Only poster I've ever met is married (and so am I). Hope you young'uns are hitting it off - two of the nicest folk on the Lost blog.

Your map locations threw me off a bit. How did you meet from so far apart?

And eal, I never did understand the clue from Mr Random (not Jackson). Care to explain?

#379. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 27, 2009 12:58 PM

Completed catching up on all of the posts.

Ok first, @333: ealgumby ealgumby - O..M...G, you've got a LOT of time to think, methinks. Great detail in your posts. I think one point you're missing in the explanation of the island traveling through time is that, as it was explained, it must travel within the constraints of its existence in the past, along it's pre-defined line or "string", thus if it were to travel 50 years into its past, it MUST re-appear in the same physical place within space that it existed in the past and thus CANNOT re-appear at some other location in the past relative to its current location. ie: if the Earth/Sun/Our Galaxy are moving along within the universe the island would not re-appear in the past relative to where everything exists today but relative to where everything existed back then. That's the point along the line/string that it cannot veer from. So, at least in the case of this argument, EVERYTHING from that point must be the same. Of course, that doesn't explain to me why the Losties exist relative today and would boost your argument in terms of why is it that the Losties don't re-appear in deep space or inside the Earth somewhere. My only postulation would be that because they are getting swept backward/forward in time with the island that they are traveling along the island's line, not necessarily their own.

@376: Martin, interesting observation about how to get to the island, but I don't think Desmond or the Black Rock brought any dead people with them and I'm not sure if it's known whether Eko's brother was actually dead or just mortally wounded when the plan crashed.

I'm going with the "missing pieces" clips as having something important in at least one of them. Unfortunately, it's not going to be exceeding difficult to determine which one(s) might have significant hints and which might just be red herrings.

Another interesting thing - D&C made a point of stating that Farraday's declaration regarding the ability to change the past may or may not be true. Furthermore, they said that much of this season was going to be based on the interplay of those on the island that believed him and those that didn't and the natural testing of that rule by some. A lot of us here are bantering back and forth (including myself) about how can they do this or that if the past cannot be changed but the truth is we don't even know if that statement by Farraday is in fact the reality or a misunderstanding of the "rules".

@357: welh - I think if white holes exist there's no reason they have to create perfect eggs. Why can't they create something more organized from the disorganized components sucked into a black hole without creating the works of Shakespeare? Isn't that how the heavier elements on the table were created - through some process that joins lighter components/subcomponents together, either by chemical reaction or some other method?

#380. Posted by: LostedIt at January 27, 2009 2:35 PM

@379. Posted by: Cecil Rose
Heehee, I <3 working from home. My boss is too, haven't heard from him in hours.
I've met 1 poster - went to her wedding & we went on vacation together last summer. I'm facebook/myspace friends with a few others. At her wedding, my hubby took a photo of her, be-gowned, strangling me, captioned "Beware the Internet Strangler." Sent it to my mom. She didn't laugh. :-/

#381. Posted by: hurling at January 27, 2009 2:43 PM

Re 180 days, I thought they were rescued after 108 Days...It is Christmas (Eve?) when Desmond and Penny speak, just over three months after the crash of Oceanic 815.

#382. Posted by: FenwayBen at January 27, 2009 5:11 PM

Question:
Does anyone have any thoughts on what may of happened to the second island? Odd, that all the aerial shots recently only show the one island. Not sure what to make of it. Island II must not be in any future story line so it just disappeared..

#383. Posted by: jst at January 27, 2009 5:23 PM

@383 jst wondered:

>Does anyone have any thoughts on what may of happened to the second island? Odd, that all the aerial shots recently only show the one island. Not sure what to make of it. Island II must not be in any future story line so it just disappeared..

Just a guess. We know it dissappeared, else it would have been visible from the helicopter. I presume it went with the big island and is just not where we've been looking in the epiusodes so far.

#384. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 27, 2009 5:40 PM

Wierd scenario that came to me:

"Hey, we don't know when or where we are now, but we better be prepared in case those flaming arrow guys attack again."

"Yeah. Let's make some bows and flaming arrows of our own."

(workworkworkwork)

"All finished."

"Hey, I hear someone in the jungle over there."

"Light 'em up boys, and let's pay them back."

(Whoosh WhooshWhooshWhooshWhoosh)

"They've run off - let's go see if we hit anything."

"Huh, this burned corpse looks a lot like Neal. You don't suppose..."

#385. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 27, 2009 5:46 PM

And wondering:

Do the dead losties corpses float along with the group on their time tripping, or does death release you from the cycle?

#386. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 27, 2009 5:48 PM

@382/FenwayBen

Lostpedia had the timeline for December 31, 2004 as Day 101. If the O6 was rescued on Day 108, then it would have been about January 7, 2005.

When Ben pushed the FDW, he "arrived" in the desert allegedly 10 months later; and first thing he saw was Nadia's funeral, which was 10 months after Sayid-Nadia reunion. So when Sayid says he has been working for Ben for 2 years, it is implied that it was after his marriage to Nadia, or approximately 3 years to January, 2008 (the off-island time period).

From what we have seen so far, the island has only oscillated into the past, near present, then distant past, but not anything we can tell to the off-island 2008 time frame.

#387. Posted by: welh at January 27, 2009 6:00 PM

@386/Cecil Rose

If Ethan who is dead in island present shows up to shoot Locke, it would be logical to assume that Boone, Charlie, Lilly, Nikki, Paulo, Arnz, and the red shirts who have died pre-island present would also start appearing if the island jumped back to the past when they were alive.

The perplexing item would be the appearance of Jin and Michael, who died at sea on the freighter, but were alive in the past on the island.

#388. Posted by: welh at January 27, 2009 6:04 PM

That's all we need...Michael is going to come back and be all "They took mah boooooi! WAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLTTTT! Wait, what? Why do I feel like I was blowed up n stuff?"


#389. Posted by: |Lorien| at January 27, 2009 7:02 PM

House review's up, for those that are interested. Just click my name to go there.

I'll be back tomorrow night with my stand-in "Lost" review. Pray for me.

#390. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 27, 2009 9:49 PM

Re 377/378. hurling & 379. Cecil Rose:

Merci beaucoup for all of the good wishes!

We really did meet on this site (mac, I'll bet you never thought you'd be running LOSTMatch.com ; > )...thanks to the marvels of modern technology, it's now possible to get to know people even if their pins are far apart on the map. (We're working on getting our pins to geographically coincide, BTW...so if anyone—Crispy? Mr. Naysayer?—knows of engineering positions in upstate NY, please let us know!)

As far as the first real-life meeting...just outside your hometown, hurling—last August. We had been corresponding for a few months by that point & neither of us were too worried that the other was going to be an axe murderer. ; ) And we didn't invite mac or anyone else on the first date...sorry!

And hurling, you asked how ealgumby compares to Sawyer & Desmond in their shirtless states: let's just say that you all can keep Sawyer & Des...& there will be no creating a Hot Ealgumby Replicator as I'm not sharing! ; > ; > ; >

#391. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 28, 2009 1:15 AM

I’d like to break down what I understand of time travel for myself and anyone who might find it useful. Scenario by scenario.

Scenario 1: Time travel is linear as Faraday has stated, so lets imagine a line that starts at the inception of space/time and progresses as we experience it. The ‘jumps’ we see the islanders experience seem to go in both directions, forwards and backwards. Are we calling them ‘jumps in the sense that the island/islanders are literally moving along the space/time-line (as a single point), in which case; the line itself progresses normally without them being able to change anything in the past or future. But in that case I don’t understand why they would be allowed to change things in the present! Which they obviously can… So more likely they ‘can’ change events, as their return to the present would be a contradiction of the rule since they would have acquired knowledge/experience otherwise unavailable to them. Which leads us to…

Scenario 2: Time travel IS along a straight line as Faraday states, however, his assertion that events cannot be changed is incorrect. So following from the line we already have, with every ‘jump’ a new line is created, parallel to the one that exists. This seems more feasible/reasonable in terms of the rule applying, and seems to be more likely than scenario 1, through some of the contradictions we have noted already; Sawyer/Faraday/Desmond, Locke/Ethan/Juliet. Just as a point to ponder further: once this parallel line is created/copied, does that mean it has the same history leading up to the point of travel. Or does it not have a history, only a future?

Scenario 3: I find the idea of ‘jumping’ misleading and creating many contradictions/paradoxes. I think it more likely that instead of ‘jumps’, what is happening on the island may be ‘reversing’. The line we talked about, at the point of travel (POT?) reverses and that future doesn’t exist. This helps get rid of the notion that the future cannot be changed since it doesn’t exist! Supporting this idea is that Ethan does not remember Locke, Richard remembers Locke but as this is in a future ‘forward’ it is explainable, Desmond remembers what Faraday tells him. Furthermore, the effects experienced by the island are as of till now, only confined to the island move radius. It is possible that this may expand further out since the energy on the island is limitless. I see a problem with this type of travel in that once they travel backwards, traveling forwards means there is a ‘gap’ between the two POT’s. How does the ‘gap’ get filled/replaced?

1. It could possibly be through the normal progression of the original time line,

2. Travel forward will be possible through a ‘correction’ of events to match as close as possible to above, this is quite philosophically questionable since it removes freedom of choice, which of course, may or may not be possible…

3. In the case that the above is not possible, then an error in the code occurs and either the abnormality is removed, possible connection: Charlie, or, allowed freedom of constraints, possible connection: Desmond.

4. If the above is not a possibility then, ‘forward’ travel becomes impossible and the only motion possible becomes ‘reverse’, until point 0.

There is more to be said, but I would like to hear from anyone what they think, whether or not I’ve missed a blatant contradiction or if the last scenario IS indeed the most feasible.

Srry if someone has mentioned this idea already; I don’t remember all the posts and have gone thru all of this episode posts yet. Then again my nose IS bleeding…

Welcome back everyone.
I missed this. Cheers Mac.

#392. Posted by: Apollo at January 28, 2009 4:40 AM

@391/Alaïs_Longthought: Blushing here, but I'm not sharing either, you know! :)

@377-378/hurling & @379/Cecil Rose: Good puzzle solving! However, the numbers really DO provide a solution as well ... each number represents the position of a digit within 980711’s table from 1 to 192, and sets of three digits define the ASCII code for a character of the answer (complete with umlaut) ... dot/dash separate characters/words.

@392/Apollo: The problem with any concept of "the future doesn't exist" is that no one would be able to remember it then ... can't be both ways. Since the Losties, et al remember their lives "pre-jump" (or pre-reversal if you choose), by default, the future MUST exist ... therefore, the basic premise cannot be true.

The other problem I have is that of "filling in the gap" of a forward jump ... with what? If you assume a default future line exists following a jump back into the past (i.e., the future which has already transpired prior to the jump back), then I can see filling the gaps with that future. However, what of a jump into the future proper, where the "default future line" has not yet been defined, because it hasn't happened yet? Seems to me there are only a few possibilities:

(1) this will be physically disallowed (e.g. being "colder" than absolute zero is simply not possible), and "true" jumps into the future cannot happen,
(2) the future is predetermined, such that a jump forward can occur, but rather unsatisfying in terms of philosophical implications,
(3) jumps in time forward or back, can happen discontinuously without regard for timeline maintenance, but this seems to violate causality, and as such is improbable within the universe as we know it.

Therefore, now leaning toward the "no jumping forward" theory proposed by Alaïs/358 (and I know, my objectivity is rather compromised, but still makes sense ...), or some variation thereof. In other words, the "future" which Daniel, Ms. Hawking et al keep saying cannot be changed, is the "future line" which has already been established. However, this "future" goes no further than anyone previously had existed ... leaving it open to change? In this case, one might not be able to effectively change the future line up to the point where the "real future" begins (aside from "course corrections?"), but change beyond that point might be possible ... hence, the rationale for the Dharma experiments (i.e., to change the Valenzetti equation before mankind was doomed).

#393. Posted by: ealgumby at January 28, 2009 7:10 AM

@Alaïs:
I assume you tried Lockheed-Martin? We drove past on our way from Niagara Falls to Lake George (with SKM325!). Nice to know eal compares favorably (even tho we know it doesn't really matter), but since he's all yours now, couldn't you just favor us with a pic?
I remember you mentioning you were headed down my way last summer. We might go to Adirondack Extreme again this summer, will give you a shout if we do.

#394. Posted by: hurling at January 28, 2009 7:18 AM

You can see pics of both Alaïs and ealgumby on the Lost Blog Readers Map, just scroll a few blogs down. In fact, on the pull down pic-list, they're separated only by Apollo (Hope no foreshadowing is implied.) Sorry girls, eal is neither full figure nor shirtless. Click on the pics for larger versions.

While you're there, add your own pin/greeting/pic to the accumulation. Not necessary to use an actual pic if you'd rather not. Many folks use an icon or a favorite pic/sports team logo/etc. (Clementine has switched from soft fruit to STEELer).

#395. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 28, 2009 8:41 AM

OK . . . Here's for Cecil's upcoming review tonight:

Praypraypraypraypraypraypraypray (breathe) Praypraypraypraypraypraypray (breathe) Praypraypraypraypray - continue ad libitum . . .

For Goodness sake, Cecil - DON'T GO TO SLEEP during the episode . . . How embarassing would that be? . . .

Take a nap this afternoon.

Drink lots of coffee.

Sit on a bed of nails while watching (Well, THAT might be overdoing it . . )

Nevertheless - We're ALL there for you, buddy!

Looking forward to it!

#396. Posted by: The REALdavidrh at January 28, 2009 8:58 AM

The Real /D/o/n/ /S/t/e/e/l/e/ DavidRH:

Well I plan to have a DVR in one room and a VCR in another recording. Just pray my cable doesn't go out.

The nameless cable company whose initials are TW did manage to burp a bit on the old digital cable during last week's House episode (I was at a meeting at church). Fortunately it wasn't so long a burp that I couldn't follow the show, and I'll rerecord "Painless" from the USA repeat this week.

#397. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 28, 2009 9:31 AM

The jumps affecting the time line may come down to whether you believe that man has "free will" i.e. the ability to change or that life is a predetermined set of constructs where free will does not exist to change those events (even though people may have the perception that they have a free will).

The more I read everyone's excellent observations on the time-space travel issues, the less likely I believe that the same is going on during LOST writers meetings. So we will either get a simple "huh?" head scratching explanation or no explanation at all.

Minor clean-up items before tonight's episode:
1. Ben's package in the hotel vent: possibly the "magic box" which would be a teleporter-bearing calculator to get people to the island (like Ben said to Locke when Cooper suddenly arrived.)
2. I predict a messed up legal nonsense story arc on Hurley's quad murder charges, i.e. since he is an outstanding citizen and no danger to the public, and not a flight risk, he gets bail. Right.
3. Frank is most likely the pilot to get the O6 back to the island; most likely recruited by Desmond to return.

#398. Posted by: welh at January 28, 2009 10:16 AM

Home from work today,glad to see people still posting. I finally re-watched the epi's last night & have a few trivial(?) observations.
-abnormal focus on candle's left hand in the opening sequence (stove,baby bottle etc). Isn't that the one he appears to be missing later?
-obvious pendulum symbology as candles light switch in closet swings back & forth, then record starts skipping.
-orientation video Chang is shooting is for the arrow station which he says "is to gather defensive strategies & intelligence against the islands hostile indiginous occupants."
-driller who melted the bit has a nose bleed.
-after the first skip Faraday says they have to get to a structure or something manmade before the nest skip.
-Ginger asks Miles if he thinks widmore is looking for them. Miles replies "it took him 20 years to find the island ther first time."
-Alpert tells Locke "we have to remove the bullet" before Locke even tells him he was shot.
-When showing Kate the pic of YiJeon(?), Sun specifies "here's a BABY picture. Why nothing more recent? Hasn't Sun seen her recently? Is YiJeon being raised by someone other than her mother? Just like Aaron?
-Good line I missed earlier when Sayer's banging on the hatch's back door."Open up! It's the ghost of Christmas future!!!"


#399. Posted by: cookie at January 28, 2009 10:53 AM

This whole time thing is so hard to think about. I follow each of you and (Hi to Apollo, nice to see you back) think I understand it : then I try to explain what I read to my husband/daughters, who glaze quickly and change the subject, I get all tangled up.

So here are some unrelated snippets.......

Maybe the future exits as far as the last time the losties left on the island were in sync with the normal space time continuum. When the island last moved. So that the past can be changed as long as it only affects events in the space time continuum after the island last moved.Because the advance of time for the left behinders is not working. Have they been to their island future? I don't think so. Unless the militants are from their future?

Another idea. All the people on the island that are not staying in time with the island, are not equal. I would like to see just Richards group - be able to stay put. Then I could reason that all the NEW people are unstuck and need to be anchored. Need a constant. But Cindy and several others were from the crash were with Richard and though we have not seen them, RIchard said that John was the one that left, implying the new others stayed put also. And Juliet, a new person is moving with the losties. That does not make sense.

And how come Charlotte is having a time attack and not the rest of them?

I can't believe I am using these words!!!! And more than that, I am actually driving to work and trying to think this through!

#400. Posted by: berkyo at January 28, 2009 11:08 AM

sorry, I just read the end of these posts and see that someone else proposed what I was thinking.

Even so, I don't think i understsnd what either of us said!!LOL

#401. Posted by: berkyo at January 28, 2009 11:11 AM

that is supposed to be "understood".

#402. Posted by: berkyo at January 28, 2009 11:12 AM

I'm certain that when the TV cable blips, we jump in real time.

I saw eal's pic on the map, but didn't know if it was really him or some famous person I was expected to recognize. For the record, that is my real butt in my pic.

#403. Posted by: hurling at January 28, 2009 11:34 AM

Speaking of hurling's butt . . . I'm having "image unavailable" problems with my Lost Blogger's map. Anyone else having this problem?

(I'm assuming that my brother DarrelAnn has "taken care" of the impostor using my name, so I have past-jumped to my original moniker.)


DRH

#404. Posted by: davidrh at January 28, 2009 11:55 AM

@399 cookie mentioned:

>-Good line I missed earlier when Sayer's banging on the hatch's back door."Open up! It's the ghost of Christmas future!!!"

Especially apropos since Desmond is a big Dickens fan. If it was anyone but Sawyer I might think it was calculated to engage Desmond.

#405. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 28, 2009 12:14 PM

@404 davidrh pointed out:

>Speaking of hurling's butt . . . I'm having "image unavailable" problems with my Lost Blogger's map. Anyone else having this problem?

Intermittently, yes. Sometimes the map just won't load pins, too. I think maybe Frappr's having 'outgrown their servers' problems.

#406. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 28, 2009 12:18 PM

Re 394 & 403 hurling: I will need to defer to my more technologically adept other half on pictures...but for the record, the pix by our pins on the Frappr map are really ealgumby & me.

Re 404 davidrh: Yes, a good portion of the US seems to have time-jumped somewhere. ; )

I hope everyone who's driving in snow/ice/rain gets where they're going safely...wish me luck as I head off to Buffalo for class!

#407. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 28, 2009 12:28 PM

now leaning toward the "no jumping forward" In other words, the "future" which Daniel, Ms. Hawking et al keep saying cannot be changed, is the "future line" which has already been established. However, this "future" goes no further than anyone previously had existed ... leaving it open to change? In this case, one might not be able to effectively change the future line up to the point where the "real future" begins (aside from "course corrections?"), but change beyond that point might be possible ... hence, the rationale for the Dharma experiments (i.e., to change the Valenzetti equation before mankind was doomed).
→ 393. Posted by: ealgumby

That is the best explanation so far... at least the one I can best understand! Thanks, EAL. And congrats to you and AL.

Go Cardinals, BTW. Hey, I'm in AZ. I have to say that!

#408. Posted by: lovelost at January 28, 2009 12:31 PM

A sudden, bad idea has just floated into my head on where the story line is going:

If the events on the time line are set in place, what if something unexpected occurs to alter that pre-determined time line? It is said that the universe must course correct.

We know of two key variables from Flight 815. First, Frank was supposed to be the pilot, but Seth Norris took his place. Second, Desmond failed to punch the numbers in time, so the plane was sucked off course down to the island. Because of these two variables, there were 48 survivors on a strange hidden island.

But if the "real" time line was supposed to be Frank piloting the plane, and no Desmond error, and Flight 815 had its navigational problems (Burmuda Triangle style), and the plane was supposed to crash in the Sundra Trench. Frank was not seeing a staged crash site with Seth without his wedding band but a flash to what should have occurred: himself at the bottom of the sea.

So all the time guardians are going nutty because this event has altered the space time line (i.e Seth Norris was supposed to do something great in the future). The solution: go back in time and crash Flight 815 as it was supposed to have occurred in 2004 with Frank as the pilot, and with no survivors. Remember in one odd flashback to the Sydney airport, where Ben was working airline security? What if that was part of plan to correct the time line and make sure everyone got on the doomed plane?

So the story line is how do you get the survivors, who have knowledge of their ultimate fate, but have escaped own deaths, get back on the original Flight 815 in Sydney?

#409. Posted by: welh at January 28, 2009 2:17 PM

Sorry Alais--Engineering is a bit out of my wheelhouse. Good luck though!

welh--I agree I don't think they'll ever satisfactorily explain the time travel stuff. Interesting asa all the theories have been on here, the posts get long and I find my mind wandering. I doubt they could ever cover a detailed explanation of what's happening and keep it interesting enough for a prime time show. Methinks a lot of creative license is being employed--and why not? Its entertainment! I find I can enjoy some of these things more by accepting what they do explain and not overanalyzing it.
Again--not that the theories aren't a lot of fun to debate and think about here--I just doubt we'll ever get that deep into the theories on the actual show.

#410. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at January 28, 2009 2:42 PM

Call me shallow - but I just want to know who that hot chick with the rifle is that we flash by in the season opening previews!

#411. Posted by: davidrh at January 28, 2009 6:04 PM

@ Alais and Eal:
Congratulations!

Oh and about to engineering job in NY... Try Google! Even though it's almost an impossible job to get.

#412. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at January 28, 2009 6:17 PM

Alias, take care out there in Bill's land. If you go there often you will have had enough practice to manage today.

Not much snow here though.

Friend of mind is moving there this weekend :(.....on purpose!

Hope every one gets home in time for tonight's show. I am ready.

#413. Posted by: berkyo at January 28, 2009 6:36 PM

Re 408. lovelost, 410. Crispy Seaplanes, & 412. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: Thanks for the well-wishes! And lovelost, now you & Clementine can have Des all to yourselves... ; )

Re 413. berkyo: Did you make it home in time for tonight's episode? I did, just barely...

Where is RNM? He needs to stop by to say RNM is last!

#414. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at January 29, 2009 12:14 AM

I have a question, maybe some of you can help me answer.

The reason they moved the island is because Jacob told Locke they had to do it. Did he also tell him where the donkey wheel was and what it would do - or did he just say "move the island" and Ben knew what it meant?

Does that question make any sense?

#415. Posted by: Christin at January 29, 2009 3:24 PM

Please somebody kindly fill me in re "Frogurt" reference?

I don't seem to be as tack-sharp watching this show as I used to be.

#416. Posted by: catbarf at February 2, 2009 11:02 AM

→ 416. catbarf: Re Frogurt:

There are two...one was the late red shirt on the show itself. Neil was never given an official last name, but at some point during the show, he told another character(s) that he had run a frozen yogurt franchise at home...hence "Frogurt" became his nickname.

The second Frogurt is a poster here. Fortunately, he/she has not been hit w/a flaming arrow... ; )

#417. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 2, 2009 12:48 PM

Sorry if this has been mentioned:

Did anyone notice that the Chevrolet emblem on the front of the blue SUV driven by Hurley was blocked out by black tape in some scenes, while in other scenes the emblem could be seen clearly....Production error?

Len

#418. Posted by: Len at February 4, 2009 1:48 PM

Too many responses to read...
I must add one of my own.

When the record is playing, this guy manages to wake up, make a bottle, feed the baby, shower,dress up etc and only then back to the record, which is just in the very beginning....

This does not make any sense!

#419. Posted by: Uri at February 4, 2009 9:03 PM

Hi, cool site, good writing ;)

#420. Posted by: Ideodianive at February 9, 2009 6:30 AM

5-1 Because You Left

Willie Nelson plays
As Chang rises for one more
Day at the Orchid

We know now why Jack
Must must be the only medic
There's no paradox.

Sun plots to show Ben
No mercy for death of Jin
Kate, an instrument.

5-2 The Lie

When first we practice
To deceive, we must conspire,
To save all our friends.

Hurley, honest soul
Tells all to mother's query
Love! She believes him.

#421. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 10, 2009 5:56 PM

COMMENT WARNINGS
  1. If your post contains spoilers -- or even hints at spoilers -- add ***** SPOILERS ***** to the top of your comment.
  2. Your post will NOT immediately show up if you post any URLs. Because of ongoing spam issues, I need to manually approve comments that include links. This sucks, but it's the only solution at this time.
  3. Super-long URLs screw up the page. If you post one of these, people will get very angry at you and really, no one wants that. The solution is easy. Go to www.tinyurl.com and create a mini URL.
  4. Do not post under multiple identities and then have inane conversations with yourself. This kind of nonsense will get you banned from the blog.
  5. Do not post in ALL CAPS FOR YOUR ENTIRE POST. In netiquette, all caps suggests you're screaming. In etiquette, it's lame. All-caps posts will be deleted.
  6. Please scan through previous posts to see if someone has already addressed your theory or comment.

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