The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Orientation"

Season 2, Episode 3
Episode Air Date: 10/05/05

Point 1
Locke

Jack

Kate

Hurley

Sayid

Desmond

My head hurts.

After two episodes of hatch build-up, we received a colossal mind dump. In the span of two minutes a slew of new elements were added to the equation: scientific experiments, electromagnetic fields, utopian research civilizations, a 108-minute clock, etc.

Like I said ... my head hurts. But pain be damned, we've got an episode to deconstruct!

And so we begin in the hatch, once again. This episode kicks off with the single most overused scene in "Lost" history: the Jack-pointing-the-gun-at-Locke moment. By now, you know it well. The gun is raised. Jack questions Locke about Kate's whereabouts. Locke opens his eyes real wide. Jack chides Locke for his "all roads lead here" hoo-ha. Desmond shows himself. Jack's jaw drops.

But there's a twist this week: We actually move forward.

While this scene plays out, Kate manages to shimmy out of the four-foot-long air duct (she spent most of last episode crawling around up there). She stumbles upon Desmond's gun cabinet and grabs herself a rifle (she intentionally passes by a number of pistols and other small arms -- apparently, she's a rifle girl). She quietly moves behind Desmond, then slams the back of his head with the butt-end of her gun. Desmond falls, but as he careens toward the ground a shot fires from Desmond's pistol.

It's the "Shot Heard 'Round the Hatch." Why? Because this one gunshot introduces us to the 108-minute countdown clock, and the countdown clock has suddenly emerged as a Very Important Plot Device. But more on that in a bit ...

Returning to the scene at hand, Desmond's gun goes off and a bullet lodges in his TRS-80 super computer. The computer, which first appeared in "Man of Science, Man of Faith," is a dandy little machine that appears to serve only one purpose: to control the countdown clock. You see, the hatch is rigged with a 108-minute countdown (I'll explain how I know all this in a minute). The person/persons in the hatch must monitor the countdown clock very carefully -- it can never, ever click down to zero. If it does ... well, we -- and the islanders -- don't know happens, but the assumption is that zero = bad. The computer is integral because, with it, a hatch inhabitant can enter a specific code (4 8 15 16 23 42 -- know it, love it) that resets the system and thereby saves all humankind from shadowy monsters or 19th century pirates carrying temperamental dynamite or polar bears, or maybe all three.

All of this exposition leads to one point: destroying the computer is not a good thing to do, and yet, that's what appears to happen during Kate's take-down sequence. Seconds after the shot fires, Desmond sees the smoldering computer and he is immediately overcome with grave concern. Paying no mind to the two guns trained on him (one from Jack, one from Kate), Desmond gets to his feet and scurries nervously about his underground Hobbit hole. He's looking for something. Locke offers assistance, but Desmond snaps back with a question: "Do you know how to fix a computer?" Alas, Locke does not ... but Sayid does! Locke orders Kate to retrieve Sayid, so she zips out (she's shown going through a new hatch exit). Desmond, after rifling through books and rearranging his hatch decor, finally finds a jar filled with assorted screws, nails and other cast-off computer shreds (you've probably got the same jar stacked in a basement corner). He's pleased with this find and so he scampers back to the computer.

But Jack has a different idea. You see, Jack is having a hard time these days -- his leadership status has been knocked down a few pegs, he's got Locke talkin' loco all the time, and Kate remains out-of-reach romantically -- and in this episode, he decides to take out all of his frustration on Desmond. And so he grabs Desmond's jar of nails and refuses to give it back until Desmond explains how he came to be Hatch Resident No. 1.

The countdown clock is ticking (it's just past the 85-minute mark at this point), so Desmond offers an abridged version of his story:

  • Three years ago Desmond was on a solo race around the world (this corroborates his backstory). Desmond shipwrecked on the island and soon after arriving, a man raced from the jungle and summoned Desmond to the hatch. That man's name was Kelvin.

  • This first meeting between Desmond and Kelvin was cut short by an alarm -- it's the same alarm we've heard beeping throughout the hatch. Desmond describes how Kelvin rushed in and punched a code into the computer. The alarm stopped. When Desmond inquired about this alarm nonsense, Kelvin told him that he's "saving the world." As the days went by, Desmond started to enter the code himself.

  • At some point Kelvin died. Desmond doesn't say how or when. Since Kelvin's death, Desmond has been alone -- whiling away his days in 108-minute increments.

Jack is unimpressed by the story. In Jack's mind, sitting in a subterranean hatch on a mysterious island nervously pushing a button every 108 minutes seems like a nutty thing to do (he's not wrong). But when Jack expresses his scepticism, Desmond directs him to "the film."

Hidden away in Desmond's room -- tucked on a bookshelf behind a copy of Henry James' "The Turn of the Screw" -- is a tin film canister that is marked by two things: the now-ubiquitous Dharma logo (seen on everything from jumpsuits, to electrical boxes, to shark tails) and a label reading "Orientation."

And this is where things get fast and confusing and very, very interesting.

While Desmond continues to work on the bullet-ridden computer, Jack and Locke thread the "Orientation" film into an old projector (the home theater revolution appears to have passed the island by). They flip the switch and out comes a torrent of revelations about the island, the hatch and the Dharma Initiative. In no particular order, here are some of the film's Major Clues:

  • The film's opening titles read:

    The Dharma Initiative
    3 of 6
    Orientation
    Orientation - Station 3 - The Swan
  • The host/narrator of the film introduces himself as "Dr. Marvin Candle."
  • The Dharma Initiative was formed in 1970 by two University of Michigan doctoral candidates, Gerald and Karen DeGroot.
  • Dharma was developed as a scientific research compound where scientists could study meteorology, psychology, parapsychology (paging Dr. Venkman!), zoology (two fighting polar bears are shown when "zoology" is mentioned in the film ... hmmm), electromagnetism and some sort of utopian hoo-ha (the utopian segment of the film is damaged and does not play correctly).

  • Dharma was funded by "reclusive Danish industrialist and munitions magnate Alvar Hanso." Munitions magnate?

  • The hatch is officially known as "Station 3: The Swan." Why it's called The Swan isn't revealed.

  • A two-person team was assigned to the station for 540 days.

  • The Swan was originally a laboratory where scientists could study the "unique electromagnetic fluctuations emanating from this sector of the island." (We'll be deconstructing this revelation for months).

  • An "incident" at The Swan station is mentioned in the film, but no details are given. This incident led to the creation of a strict protocol wherein a button must be pushed every 108-minutes. When an alarm sounds, the hatch residents have four minutes to enter the code into the computer. The code needs to be entered correctly and quickly.

  • Dharma recommends using alternating shifts for entering the code.

  • The computer is not to be used for "any ..." -- That's as much as we get because the film is damaged. I believe the complete sentence is supposed to be: "The computer is not to be used for any porn mongering."

  • After 540 days, a new team will arrive to take over operations.

  • Dr. Candle signs off by saying "Namaste and ... good luck."

  • The film's copyright notice reads: "© The Hanso Foundation, 1980. All Rights Reserved."

  • At the conclusion of the film, Locke has the quote of the year: "We're gonna have to watch that again."

Note 1: I'm writing this at 2 a.m., so it's very possible I missed something (like a black shadow crossing the screen at the fourth, eighth and fifteenth seconds). Please feel free to add your own observations in the comments area at the end of this review.

Note 2: This one is for the "Lost" team -- this film segment was mean. You know full well that people like me spend ungodly amounts of time pouring over every last second, and so you whip out a segment saturated with exceptional detail and force me to stay up till all hours of the night examining every last bit. MEAN ... but I love you for it.

Moving on ...

The film raises Jack's ire to an unprecedented level. He storms into the nearby control room (where Desmond continues to fiddle with the computer) and peppers Desmond with questions: Why didn't you know about the plane crash? Where do you get your food? What's the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow? That kind of thing. When Desmond doesn't respond in detail, Jack hoists himself up on his high horse and suggests, in very stern words, that Desmond may be nothing more than a subject in a psychological test. "Did you ever think of that, fella? Well, did ya?" Jack asks (I'm paraphrasing) while wearing the most self-serving, glib expression he can muster. "Every ... single ... day," Desmond responds. With that, Jack shuts up.

In addition to his fine debating skills, Desmond also displays uncanny multitasking abilities during this segment. As he puts the smack down on Jack, he also fixes the computer (well, appears to fix). A simple flip of the switch should do the trick and .... BZZZZZZZ! Suddenly, a transformer pops and the lights go dark. Maybe Desmond should have eased up on that multitasking.

With the computer fried, Desmond opts for plan B. He tosses food, medicine and weapons into a bag, then runs for the hills. Locke tries to convince Desmond to stay, but Desmond can't be swayed. Jack is the next one to leave -- he blows past Locke and heads for the hatch door (the same door used by Kate). "This isn't what was supposed to happen!" Locke declares. "What was supposed to happen?" Jack asks, while shutting the door. "Jack, please don't leave me here." BLAM! The door shuts. Jack is a heartless bastard doctor.

With 47 minutes left on the clock, Locke wanders back into the control room. He's at his wit's end. "What am I supposed to do!" he cries.

Well, you're supposed to wait for Kate and Sayid to arrive, which finally happens when the countdown hits 25 minutes. For some reason, Kate and Sayid bring Hurley along, and he soon discovers the hatch's stocked pantry (looks like that curse is starting to wear off, big man!). While Hurley peruses the foodstuffs, Kate, Locke and Sayid race (against the clock!) to fix the computer.

At roughly the same time, Jack tracks down Desmond in the jungle. Jack is still hopped up about this whole countdown thing, so he aims his gun at Desmond and drones on and on about how it's all so ridiculous and that nothing is going to happen. It's at this moment that Desmond fully remembers his previous run-in with Jack (his recognition appears to be jogged by Jack's psychopathic intensity). Desmond recounts the entire event: running in the stadium, Jack twisting his ankle, Jack's depression over not being able to "fix" Sara. "Was she okay?" Desmond asks. "It doesn't matter," Jack responds, his gun still trained on Desmond. "What happened to her?" Desmond presses. And with that, Jack's angst bubbles to the surface: "I married her!" he cries. The gun goes limp in Jack's hand and he turns away. Desmond, seeing that he's dealing with a strung-out doctor holding a firearm, wisely backs away. He throws his bag over his shoulder. "See you in another life, yeah?" he says, then runs off.

Back in the hatch, the clock ticks down to four minutes. A beeping alarm starts to sound and everyone gets jittery. Fortunately, Sayid has worked his Geek Squad magic and the computer whirs back to life. Locke starts to enter the code into the computer and as he proceeds through the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42), Hurley protests. Locke types in the last number ... "32." Hurley stops protesting, seeing that Locke has the wrong digit. "It's not 32," Jack says as he enters the control room. "It's 42." Locke corrects the number and prepares to hit the all-important "Execute" button, but he gets a sudden flare up of faith-itis and he declares that Jack should be the one to press the final key. Jack, of course, thinks this is the dumbest thing he's ever heard, but Locke backs away from the keyboard. Locke reminds Jack about the "Orientation" film -- monitoring the countdown is supposed to be a two-person job. Jack counters: "You want to push the button, you do it yourself." And at this moment (this incredibly inopportune moment, mind you), the faith vs. science debate comes roaring to life. Locke whines about faith. Jack whines about misplaced belief. The clock ticks down and finally Jack marches over and clicks the Execute key with only one second to spare. The alarm cuts out and the countdown resets to 108 minutes. "I'll take the first shift," Locke says.

And so now the castaways have a new task to add to their to-do lists: press a button every 108 minutes. The repercussions of this plot device could be far reaching because at any one time, someone has to be near the hatch. Moreover, pressing the button -- or not pressing it -- could become a type of leverage between warring factions. We shall see.

Point 2
Locke You probably noticed that Locke seems a bit unstable in this episode (crying out to no one in particular; playing up his faith in faith; that kind of thing). And you've probably noticed that whenever a character exhibits unusual emotion/instability/insight, a backstory is entwined with the present day events. This episode is no different.

Unlike previous Locke backstories ("Deus Ex Machina," "Walkabout"), there are no mind-blowing revelations in this latest installment. Rather, we learn that Locke had a somewhat long-term relationship with a woman named Helen (played by Katey Sagal from "Married ... With Children") and that he stalked his no-good, kidney-stealing father.

Eventually, Locke is forced to choose between Helen and his Daddy Disdain. Helen, in one of those "bringing it all around" moments, tells Locke that he needs to make a "leap of faith." Locke later uses the same terminology when he convinces Jack to press the "Execute" key on the hatch computer. It would appear that Locke's die-hard commitment to faith is at least partially due to his relationship with Helen.

This Locke segment is notable for what it doesn't tell us. We still don't know how he became paralyzed, nor do we know how his relationship with Helen deteriorates (way back in "Walkabout," Locke appears to have a final phone conversation with Helen). There's still a lot to learn about this guy.

Point 3
Michael

Jin

Sawyer

Ana-Lucia
When last we left Michael, Jin and Sawyer, they had just spotted a menacing group of island inhabitants lurching toward them on the beach. This week, we get a sense of just how menacing those inhabitants really are.

A hulking man with a big stick approaches the Raftaway trio. The man believes in the "hit people with a big stick and don't say anything" mode of communication. He smacks Sawyer upside the head and violently subdues both Michael and Jin. The Raftaways are then hauled into the jungle and tossed into a deep hole. A makeshift door slams shut above them.

Shortly thereafter, the door pops open and an unconscious woman is rolled into the hole. Michael brushes her hair back and we see ... Ana-Lucia!

Let's backtrack a bit ... Ana-Lucia (played by Michelle Rodriguez), popped up in "Exodus, Part 1" during an airport backstory sequence. She and Jack giggled and flirted over a couple of drinks and Ana-Lucia went out of her way to tell Jack the following:

  1. She was on his flight (Oceanic 815).

  2. She was in Seat 42F (back of the plane).

This information becomes relevant once again as she gains consciousness and reveals her status as an Oceanic passenger to Michael, Jin and Sawyer. As you'd expect, the trio is dumbfounded and wants to know where she's been and how she survived. Ana-Lucia is vague: She claims that following the crash, she regained consciousness under water and swam out of the rear section of the airplane. She also says she's been trekking through the jungle by herself, looking for help, but she was captured by these same hulking captors the day before. Her demeanor is suspicious, which is odd since she's just encountered the very people she claimed to have been looking for (other survivors).

The oddness is soon explained. Sawyer, playing up his bravado, pulls a pistol from under his shirt (how he's been able to hang onto that thing is one of the island's great mysteries). He hatches a plan to attract their captors' attention, then pop them full of bullets. In a display of stunning quickness, Ana-Lucia grabs the gun and levels a knock-out punch across Sawyer's jaw (all that "Girlfight" training sure comes in handy!). "Coming out!" she yells. The hulking man seen earlier quickly appears above. He swings the door open and drops a rope down to Ana-Lucia. She trains her gun on the stunned faces of Michael, Jin and Sawyer as the big man hauls her up. "What happened?" the man asks in an accented voice. "Who are they?"

And that's all we get!

That's it for now. Be sure to drop by our "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"Everybody Hates Hugo" -- Hurley's past causes problems in the present. On the other side of the island, the Raftaways learn something very interesting about their captors. Airs: Wednesday, Oct. 12, 9 p.m., ABC.


Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.


Man, that was fast and well-covered...
tho it occurred to my wife and i last night, we dont have the dvd yet... wasnt locke talking to a phonesex line and referred to the woman as helen?

#1. Posted by: tlyden at October 6, 2005 12:14 PM

I thought Locke was talking to a phone-sex "Helen" as well, but maybe that wasn't the case. Or maybe ... he *asked* his phone-sex buddy to use the name "Helen," which is pretty damn creepy.

#2. Posted by: mac at October 6, 2005 12:16 PM

Did I see in the previews right that Jin knows perfect english? Where did that come from? Can't wait for next week

#3. Posted by: B_Dub at October 6, 2005 12:58 PM

There has to be major significance to the "medicine" Desmond injects in season opener...and then grabs several bottles before fleeing??

#4. Posted by: JT at October 6, 2005 1:18 PM

Don't know if this was already covered before, but if you add up the "Mysterious Numbers" they add up to 108. 108 Minutes?

#5. Posted by: RP Perez at October 6, 2005 1:22 PM

Did anyone get a screen shot of the medicine bottles desmond picked up?

#6. Posted by: Yo B at October 6, 2005 1:35 PM

Does anyone have any screencaps of the polar bear from the first season? A few people were talking about how they saw the logo on the bear, and I'd like to see for myself. Googling is turning up nothing...

#7. Posted by: Peg Bundy hearts Locke at October 6, 2005 2:23 PM

hiya all :)

this info is awsome :):P takes alot of reading though :)

does anyone at all know where i can download episodes of lost season 2 :):)

i really want them :)

if someone could please please please reply back to this comment and let me know if they know where i can download REAL! episodes and not fakes :) i would be extremley grateful as you would not believe :) please :):):)

gillian :)

#8. Posted by: gillian :) at October 6, 2005 2:28 PM

Some more numerology... 540 days? 540 is evenly divisible by 108 which we know to be the sum of THE numbers.

#9. Posted by: kidomaha at October 6, 2005 2:35 PM

I am CERTAIN that Jin knew English but kept it from his wife - same as she did. ALways puzzled me why he was so angry that she knew English and kept it secret when he had the same secret...alas!
I don't remember seeing polar bear with insignia.Someone from posting earlier said medicine Desmond injects has the same numbers on it.

#10. Posted by: Sistaire at October 6, 2005 2:43 PM

The Sawyer/Locke connection ...

I believe that Locke's father is the man that conned Sawyer's family; the one he has been searching for his whole life and wants to seek revenge on. Remember, in this week's episode (#3) when Locke's dad asks Locke, "What's wrong? Haven't you ever been conned before? Get over it."

Anyway, just my theory ....

#11. Posted by: GatorGal at October 6, 2005 2:55 PM

In fact, 108 * 5 = 540, and there are (it would seem) 5 pods on the island. This is ultimately where the story is headed - identifying each pod, its inhabitants, functions, etc.

#12. Posted by: philanoia at October 6, 2005 2:55 PM

Good summary! Just some things I want to add to it: Right after the computer is shot and wounded, Desmond looks up at it and says "We're all gonna die!" Later, after Jack tells him that he married Sarah and breaks down, Desmond surmises "Then you're not married to her anymore, are you?" and Jack appears to shake his head but doesn't say whether he's divorced or widowered.
Also, you left out the conversation between Locke and his father. His father gets in Locke's car and tells him how annoying it is to see him sitting out there all day, tells him to get over it and go away because he's not wanted. Poor, sad, messed up Locke!

#13. Posted by: Trinity at October 6, 2005 3:01 PM

Here's the scoop on Helen (at least what I THINK is the scoop). She ends up rejecting Locke and in his misery, he calls a 'fantasy' 800 number and the woman on the other end, instead of doing the phone sex thing, talks to him as though she were Helen.

#2 - The rather large black man with the HUGE stick? I thnk that is Rose's husband. Remeber the lady who, after the crash, just sat on the beach looking out over the water? Jack went and talked to her and she told him that she KNEW her husband wasn't dead. It was just a feeling she had. HE is her husband.

#14. Posted by: Vicki at October 6, 2005 3:35 PM

I'm certainly not calling anyone out on this, but I do find it interesting from a sociological standpoint that we assume that the newly-introduced "big guy" is Rose's husband. I mean, are we basing this on his skin color?

I'm guilty of the same sin, but I realized there's no real proof that this guy is, in fact, Rose's husband. He's just as likely some random guy, or, perhaps, a survivor from the *other* plane crash.

#15. Posted by: mac at October 6, 2005 3:46 PM

SWAN instruments are devices that measure electromagnetic field fluctuations.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/
solarsystem/soho_storms_010427-1.html

#16. Posted by: Gadget424 at October 6, 2005 3:56 PM

Did any notice the picture that was in the hatch, they flashed to quicking as Desmond ran out. It was a picture of Helen and someone else, but I couldn't make out the other person in the picture.

#17. Posted by: Lil at October 6, 2005 3:59 PM

In "Walkabout" Locke was speaking with the woman Helen. She tells him if he keeps going on, she will have to charge him. So here is my thought. Locke's long lost dad is well off. Maybe the old man is feeling bad about scamming John and to pay him back, hires him an escort (Helen) to take his mind off of things and to get John off his road and out of his life.

And I do like the theory about Rose's husband, Vicki. It will be interesting to see where that is going.

Jin speaking English........I heard that

Wow cant wait til next week.

#18. Posted by: dOR at October 6, 2005 4:00 PM

It is a very correct summarise!For me , causemy mother-language is not English!I have a question:Does Jack finally push "execute" or don't, because I could not see clearly.I think he does.I'm very abuse about Ana-Lucia.Does she belong to the others???

#19. Posted by: bonga at October 6, 2005 4:15 PM

Here is a theory I haven?t read yet:
Jin, Sawyer, Mike and ?the others? are on a different island. The show leads us to believe that the drifters, drifted back to their island, but how can they know it is theirs, since they never saw it from the ocean. Especially if they landed on a new beach that they are unfamiliar with very rocky versus sandy.

#20. Posted by: Grandjo at October 6, 2005 4:15 PM

I though it is the same island...

#21. Posted by: bonga at October 6, 2005 4:19 PM

I thought the scene with Jin was the actor speaking about the series, not a scene from the show.

Good review, I love the way your write about the show, it is almost as entertaining as the show itself!

#22. Posted by: Theoldred at October 6, 2005 4:31 PM

I just wanted to add, in regards to the Dharma co-founders from the University of Michigan, this just proves that NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM THE U. OF M.!!!
hahaha

#23. Posted by: Trinity at October 6, 2005 4:39 PM

LOL -- sounds like we've got a Michigan State (or maybe Ohio?) fan in our midst.

#24. Posted by: mac at October 6, 2005 4:42 PM

http://www.thehansofoundation.org

#25. Posted by: blackcock at October 6, 2005 4:46 PM

Isn't the computer in the hatch an Apple, not a TRS-80?

#26. Posted by: Time Cop at October 6, 2005 5:19 PM

i came across someting very interresting. It doesnt make much sense but in the scene where Desmond packs up his stuff to leave there is a brief moment where you can see a book lying there as he grabs his jacket. this book is The Third Policeman by Flann o'Brien. I did a search on Amazon for the book and got this brief summary of Amazon.


"Fiction. The last of O'Brien's novels to be published and now reissued by Dalkey Archive, THE THIRD POLICEMAN is Flann O'Brien's brilliant comic novel about the nature of time, death, and existence. Told by a narrator who has committed a botche d robbery and brutal murder, the novel follows him and his adventures in a two-dimensional police station where he is intruduced to "Atomic Theory" and its relation to bicycles, the existence of eternity (which turns out to be just down the road), and the view that the earth is not round but "sausage-shaped."

mmm, I wonder if this book could have any significence to the story of lost. anyway, go do some research and post your findings. :) CLH

#27. Posted by: chris at October 6, 2005 5:21 PM

The TRS-80 comment was a joke (albeit a very bad one). One of my very first computing experiences was on one of those Trash 80s, so I've always been fond of them.

I'm not sure about the make/model of the Hatch computer, but I'm pretty sure it's not a Mac.

Anyone have a firm ID on that little Wonder Box?

#28. Posted by: mac at October 6, 2005 5:24 PM

I think it's an Apple II

http://apple2history.org/history/ah03.html

It doesn't have the Apple logo on it as far as I can tell, but the shape of the case looks like it's an Apple II.

#29. Posted by: ashman at October 6, 2005 5:37 PM

Regarding the website"
http://www.thehansofoundation.org

If one looks closely, you can highlight your mouse over "terms of use" under 2005 The Hanso Foundation and All Rights reserved. When you click on it, it takes you to a Disney Website. Therefore this website is there to make you believe there really is a "Hanso Foundation."

Who masterminds this stuff? Pretty cool. Thanks Disney Corp for giving us the coolest puzzle that I've had to play with in years! Keep the episodes coming... I LOVE LOST!

#30. Posted by: Janet Burton at October 6, 2005 5:48 PM

I know that some snazzy marketing firms do this kind of publicity, but in this case I get the sense that the "Lost" crew is directly involved. It's simply too in-depth and too related to the show to *not* emanate from the powers-that-be.

And if any "Losters" are reading this -- I know my way around a Web site, so if you ever need any help ... ;)

#31. Posted by: mac at October 6, 2005 5:57 PM

I think it's interesting that a lot of these charactors have "father issues!" Has anyone thought of that? Locke's father figure is a Con Man who would con a guy looking for his natural father out of a kidney... We know Jack's father was a total mess of a man. Walt's father (Michael) gave away his paternal rights but is trying to right his wrong... Jin's wife, (can't think of her name off the top of my head) has a criminal as a father. Jin's father seems to be the most loving and respectable father they've shown but Jim was embarrassed about him becasue the family was poor. Clair's baby's father abondoned her when she was pregnaunt!!! Have they shown anything on Kate's father or Hurley's father?

Also, I'm sure Helen was working as a 1-900 Phone Sex girlfriend in earlier episodes. Locke called her and hanted her to accompany him on his walkabout in Austraila. Can't wait to see how she was also in his support group and how she became a "phone call girlfriend."

Regarding the thought that maybe Jin, Michael and Sawyer and not all on the same island is a thought. The map that the French woman had, had 3 islands on it. And the French woman said, "the Others are coming..." not the otheres live here, too, on the other side of the island" but rather, "the other's are coming."

ONe more thing, When Jack was talking to Desmond in the jungle about Sara, Desmond was leaving and said, "I'll see you in another life, Brother!" He said it again. Brother, Brother Brother. Does anyone think the writers do anythang random to throw us off? No way. Everything on this show is a clue. I don't think there is any "red herrings!" Could Jack and Desmond be brothers?

I'll quit rambling now.

#32. Posted by: Janet at October 6, 2005 6:05 PM

During the orientation film they mentioned that the researchers were using methods similar to B.F. Skinner. Skinner's main work had to do with rats and how they could be conditioned to press the appropriate buttons. Coincidence?

#33. Posted by: Koitous at October 6, 2005 6:39 PM

regarding Locke & Helen

my theory is that john is w/helen when they get in the accident that causes him to become a paraplegic and losses helens life along w/ faith due to this accident. therefore using a "call girl" to substitute helen.

It took another accident "flight 815" to bring him back on his feet and his faith back.

#34. Posted by: mozart at October 6, 2005 6:41 PM

That is the same exact theory i had on helen and locke, mozart.

And with the jin speaking englisg, who knows maybe he knew english.

However my friend and I who watch lost religiously every week together decided that it most likely was a dream or a vision of some kind by one of the other survivors. and for somereasion the jin in their minds said that to them...

but who knows..we will see next week wont we

#35. Posted by: Pratt-San at October 6, 2005 7:14 PM

I read The Third Policeman and other books by Flann O'Brien in an Irish lit class some ten years ago.

=== Book Spoiler Here ==

I think the main character realized he was in Hell at the end. I don't think that will be the case with this show, of course.

Thanks to the person who posted the SWAN instrument link at Space.com. Good catch!

#36. Posted by: lostisland at October 6, 2005 7:25 PM

We almost have the numbers covered now.
4 ---

8 15 (the flight number) ---

16 ---

23 Jack's seat number on the flight ---

42 --- (f) The seat that the girl who talked to jack at the airport bar and who was thrown in to the pit with Sawyer, Jin, and Mike.

so, anyone know a signifigance to 4 and 16 I have missed?

#37. Posted by: Angus at October 6, 2005 8:53 PM

Desmond is Scottish.

Kelvin is the name of a famous Scottish scientist, Lord Kelvin, who did work on electromagnetism.

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Kelvin.html

I wonder if any books around that 'Orientation' film were works by Lord Kelvin.

#38. Posted by: haggis at October 6, 2005 9:29 PM

You can watch the video again here: http://www.thehansofoundation.org/videostream.swf

#39. Posted by: Mike at October 7, 2005 12:08 AM

The importance of 16: It is the age of Alex - crazy French lady's daughter.

#40. Posted by: Jonny at October 7, 2005 12:32 AM

Is the rich man that stole Locke's kidney actually Hanso of the Hanso Foundation? They focus on Hanso in the orientation film through a window. Looks like it could be him.

#41. Posted by: thescribe at October 7, 2005 1:38 AM

I beleive that there are hidden frames in the Orentation video but i can pause it quick enough to catch them on the Hanso Foundation website, i think there more noticable towards the end of the film, i could be wrong but im trying to find out

#42. Posted by: Dave Kellett at October 7, 2005 7:31 AM

Written by mozart:
"my theory is that john is w/helen when they get in the accident that causes him to become a paraplegic and losses helens life along w/ faith due to this accident. therefore using a "call girl" to substitute helen."

mozart you have absolutelly wright!And now I can understand why these people crashed on this island.There is a connection between these people: all of them lose somebody, a very important person:Locke -loses Helen, Clair-her baby's father, Sayid- her girlfriend,Jack- his wife ( i think), I don't know what about Hurley, he lost very much persons, I donno what about Kate etc. but we will know soon.

#43. Posted by: bonga at October 7, 2005 7:42 AM

The Hanso Foundation url is registered to ABC, inc.:

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/
whois.ch?ip=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehansofoundation.org%2F

#44. Posted by: Graham at October 7, 2005 8:39 AM

I like that it took 4 minutes for Sayid to fix a computer that's been shot...and blew up. It took me weeks to get my mouse replaced in my office.

#45. Posted by: Wrecks at October 7, 2005 8:43 AM

did a Whois look-up on the Hanso-foundation webpage... It is administred by Disney and owned and registered by.... well, guess who ;)

#46. Posted by: PeeMaN at October 7, 2005 8:47 AM

I have a theory...
Maybe the plane-crash was caused by "the project" on the island. Think about it. Electromagnetic fields can temper with airplane electronics....

#47. Posted by: PeeMaN at October 7, 2005 8:56 AM

When the "electromagnetic" thing first came up, that was my thought too -- perhaps that's why the plane broke apart. The film also mentioned "meteorological" studies, which may have played a role -- and it might play a role in the odd tides that seem to affect the island, too.

#48. Posted by: mac at October 7, 2005 9:08 AM

http://www.the-dharma-initiative.org/ this is the dharma initiative website, i cant seem to go further then the main page, if anyone else can let me know

#49. Posted by: Dave Kellett at October 7, 2005 10:08 AM

I looked up "108 minutes" on answers.com (my new favorite website/Bible!) and found a long article on (what else?) Aviation history! Here's the URL: http://www.answers.com/topic/aviation-history?hl=108&hl=minutes

The only part where 108 minutes is mentioned though is near the end: In 1961, ths sky was literally no longer the limit for manned flight, as Yuri Gagarin, orbited once around the planet within 108 minutes. This action further heated up the space race that had started in 1957 with the launch of Sputnik 1 by the Soviet Union. The United States responded by launching Alan Shepard into space on a suborbital flight in a Mercury space capsule. The Space race would ultimately lead to the current pinacle of human flight, the landing of men on the moon in 1969


(BTW, I'm an Ohio fan, not MSU!:) Go Bucks!!)

#50. Posted by: Trinity at October 7, 2005 11:43 AM

I think there might be something to the electromagnetics bringing down the plane. In the prior episode, Desmond didn't respond when Locke told him the plane crashed 40 (42?) days ago, but looked scared as though he realized something happened at that same time. Maybe he didn't key in the numbers in time?

#51. Posted by: MattB at October 7, 2005 11:52 AM

P.S. answers.com also lists a biography for an English chemist and physicist named Joseph Swan. At the bottom of the page is a link to one of his essays on electricity and megnetism: http://www.answers.com/topic/electricity-and-magnetism?hl=joseph&hl=swan
Also, one definition of the word "swan" is to move about aimlessly without destination, usually in search of food or employment. The plot thickens.....

#52. Posted by: Trinity at October 7, 2005 11:55 AM

1. Are we sure Kelvin is dead, or did he go insane, get taken off island, and while locked up give Hurley the number sequence?

#53. Posted by: DaveB at October 7, 2005 1:49 PM

Koitus, you're a genius! On episode 201, Walt tells whatshername to "push the button, no button's bad"!

#54. Posted by: Pierre Friedmann at October 7, 2005 4:14 PM

Looking at hanso foundation (fake) website, there's a hidden link (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html)underneath the visible ones to "the Dharma initiative". Shows up when you wave your cursor over it. Have not been able to get it to load, however.

#55. Posted by: addictedtolost at October 7, 2005 5:22 PM

Looking for the OTHERS? Well perhaps we have a connection between the "Others" on the boat and the people on the initiation video---- they sure look alot a like. See for yourself.

http://humpys.net/images/theothers.jpg

#56. Posted by: L O S T Fan at October 7, 2005 5:22 PM

I believe the references to electrmagnetism (EM)will be key as the story unravels. Governments around the world have periodically poured money into research in using E.M. to create: "matter" weapons supposedly more fearsome than Hydrogen bombs (maybe such a weapon blows if the clock is not reset); "cloaking devices" (perhaps why the plane cannot be found by authorities), medicine (perhaps Locke's legs are cured by EM field. The Nazis reportedly researched an EM "time machine" at the end of WWII (could be some time machine elemnts here, no?). There is a non fiction book called "Hunt for Zero Point" on this EM research. Very interesting read. Just a thought.

#57. Posted by: Tommy13 at October 7, 2005 5:31 PM

“From the dawn of our species, Man has been blessed with curiosity. Our most precious gift, without exception, is the desire to know more - to look beyond what is accepted as the truth and to imagine what is possible.”

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

i bet that's what the writers were trying to do all along...make a whole new series that would make everybody "look beyond what is accepted as the truth and to imagine what is possible"

it would be the first time in tv history that a show would have clues all over the internet...what better time than now??

all those dead end websites

#58. Posted by: patrick at October 7, 2005 6:10 PM

what about the others being descendants of survivors from the black rock? They would have been there for hundreds of years before the stations were built and may be at war against anyone who comes to the island thinking they are there to do more damage (the 'incident') to them and the island....

#59. Posted by: fbias at October 7, 2005 6:20 PM

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html

that pic was on the tape... so that proves my theory that the writers made clues on the web

#60. Posted by: patrick at October 7, 2005 6:20 PM

for the one who wanted to know the significance of nhumbers 4 and 16

all significant events to 'all' characters happened either

4 or 16 years ago

#61. Posted by: Pratt-san at October 7, 2005 6:49 PM

yo, the Electromagnetic field must've been what screwed up the compass that Locke gave to Sayid. Locke realized the compass was no good. The electromagnetic field may have been what caused the airplane to lose orientation and become.... dare I say, 'lost.'

BTW, clicking on the hans link on that website brings up the orientation video http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html it didn't work for me yesterday, but it works now.

#62. Posted by: Matty Pants at October 7, 2005 8:24 PM

regarding the numbers from an earlier remark,
16 -is The number of years the french woman's message plays on the loop!

#63. Posted by: wendy at October 7, 2005 8:31 PM

Wendy,
That's right.

So...

4 significant events that happened in our charater's lives

8 15 The flight number

16 Years the french woman's message was looped

23 Jack's seat number

42 The seat Ana Lucia sat in.


#64. Posted by: Janet at October 7, 2005 9:40 PM

Looks to me, based on the picture on the Hanso Coorporation website (and in the 'orientation' film), that Locke's father is Alvar Hanso. You heard it here first.

#65. Posted by: Michael at October 7, 2005 10:26 PM

My feeling is that all 5 "stations" are located on the island (or the three islands) not spread out all over the world. I doubt that the Dharma Initiative is the ultimate secret of the island, just one more layer. I can't picture Jack standing on the beach five seasons from now, nodding sagely and saying, "so it was hippies afterall." But I could be wrong. I also predict that Jin's english turns out to be in someone's dream, probably Shannon's, since she seems to have inherited Walt's powers. I predict that 108 is the number of episodes Lost will run. The button doesn't do anything, just as the vision of Walt told Shannon it doesn't. There's the reference to Skinner, but also, rationally, what could the button really do?
What has to be reset every 108 minutes and why does it have to be entered manually? Of course, this is fiction, so they can make up some bullshit reason, but it they are honest they won't. (I don't know that they are honest.) Funny that Desmond supposedly believes that the world will end with the clock but still packs food and medicine. Where does he think he's running to? Guess he's not going to be a series regular, and that was the only way they could think of to get him out of the way, so the Losties would have to be stuck with the button and no one to provide answers.

#66. Posted by: Michael Canfield at October 7, 2005 10:57 PM

How about this. In season 1, in Kates flashback, she is listening with Tom in his car, to a tape they made on August 15, 1989. August 15 = 8/15, or Flight 815. And 19+89=108. Press the button every 108 minutes!!!!

#67. Posted by: Ken at October 7, 2005 11:41 PM

The real global plot is found on http://dharmainstitute.com

There is a Global Dharma Vision
12 Global Dharma Initiatives
And something called ISE16108

God only knows...

#68. Posted by: Namaste at October 8, 2005 2:56 AM

reply on:"Koitus, you're a genius! On episode 201, Walt tells whatshername to "push the button, no button's bad"!

on the audio-clip on www.lost.com he sais:
"don't press the button, the button is bad"

#69. Posted by: PeeMaN at October 8, 2005 10:03 AM

It is my thoughts that the black man with stick, a blonde girl, and the newly reintroduced Ana-Lucia are not the "Others", but simply another group of people from Flight 815. They are acting in defense mode to Jin, Sawyer and Walt after being spooked by the "Others". There may well be many other pods of "Others" on the Lost Island...

#70. Posted by: Ted at October 8, 2005 10:29 AM

There is no doubt that the computer was an Apple II -- the case was very distinctive. Most likely an Apple II+ (Apple II-Plus).
But the keyboard was not authentic (there was no EXECUTE key) and they faked the screen display (the cursor would not glide smoothly back and forth).

#71. Posted by: kethd at October 8, 2005 11:07 AM

I think the stations are time machines that the scienists invented. Inventing these portals and traveling through time caused the balance of "Time" to get thrown out of whack. Kind of like in "back to the future", if you see your other, future self, it would throw everything off and the world would end. The 108 minute clock is their solution to the accident. By reseting the clock every 108 minutes, it keeps "Time" balanced.

#72. Posted by: Nolan at October 8, 2005 11:27 AM

anybody figure out how to "login" to this site?

If you click the dharma symbol it shows the orientation video, but if you click login it asks for username and password

http://thedharmainitiative.org/

#73. Posted by: mattmak54 at October 8, 2005 1:12 PM

An interesting observation here:

http://www.tapuz.co.il/tapuzforum/main/
ShowImage.asp?path=63011433.jpg&msgid=63011433

#74. Posted by: hmemcpy at October 8, 2005 1:24 PM

Couple more references to 4 and 16...

Jack's first solo operation was on a 16 year old girl -- maybe each of the numbers have significance to each of the characters?? Also the University of Michigan West Engineering Building opened in... 1904...(perhaps each of the numbers also relates to major dates in the project's history?? or time travel??)

#75. Posted by: JasonH at October 8, 2005 1:54 PM

i think the orientation film was edited. The picture and the audio skips and jumps. In the future i think more sections of the film will be found and the film will be fully reconstucted, revealing more information.

#76. Posted by: powersauce at October 8, 2005 2:10 PM

If you view the source of the "login" window at The Dharma Institute website mentioned by mattmak54, it gives two long hexidecimal strings as references to the login ID and password:

login: "732d9dda7f79c827c4453bda8f2d441a"
password: "732d9dda7f79c827c4453bda8f2d441a"

I'm completely not up enough on hex systems, but know that my wireless network can "translate" a hex code into ASCII so that I can remember how to log into it. Any computer gurus who can see if those number have any significance?

#77. Posted by: dogsbody at October 8, 2005 6:43 PM

Just curious if any one has searched google earth for latitude 4.815 and longitude 162.342....you may be surprised where it places this location in relation to where the island is located.

#78. Posted by: RC at October 9, 2005 12:33 AM

Theory: 4815162342cm is Hurley's waist circumference.

#79. Posted by: dilly joseph at October 9, 2005 12:48 AM

On the significance of deGroot name see:

http://www.bayesian.org/awards/DeGrootPrize.html

Also, query whether there is a numerology key to DHARMA D=4 H=8 A=1 R=18 [6+2=8]M=13 A=1 [remaining numbers - 3+4+2=14] - a bit of a streach?

On Namaste see: http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html

The implications are significant as they are bewitching!

#80. Posted by: porlaquin at October 9, 2005 8:54 AM

Another piece of useless infromation:

The building in the orientation movie is footage of the municipality building in Narvik, Norway from the early eighties. Apparently, Alvar Hanso looks like a person named Ivar Normark, who worked in this building from 1948-1991.

Link (in Norwegian)
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/10/07/445691.html

#81. Posted by: jon at October 9, 2005 9:00 AM

Using that decimal form of lat. and long. on mapquest puts that point in the Pacific Ocean near the island of Micronesia. Roughly 50 to 55 miles apart. But interestingly enough that point is between Australia and California and looks to be well off course of a flight plan.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9411/mqmapgend2fv.gif

#82. Posted by: gotspeed13 at October 9, 2005 1:17 PM

Oh and it looks off course because Sydney is at the bottom right of Australia.

#83. Posted by: gotspeed13 at October 9, 2005 1:19 PM

Got an idea: The "Dharma Project". We just did Hinduism in my World Religions class. Dharma is the cosmic order, or the things that one must do--the religious rites you're supposed to carry out, etc (like punching funny numbers in a computer?)
The guy on the film says "Namaste", which is from Hinduism.
As he's leaving, Desmond says to Jack, "See you in another life, yeah?"
Is anybody seeing a pattern? Hinduism? Reincarnation? Religious ritual? Faith? Anybody?
Thanks so much for this page! My TV wonked out on me halfway through the episode, and I totally missed the entire part with the filmstrip. Drove me nuts. Now I know what I missed!

#84. Posted by: Ashley at October 9, 2005 4:43 PM

Hey Here's my theory for the weeks to come:
It was Sun's father who started the program/experiment on the island. Her and Jun blew up the plane so their father could continue on with his project. We still have never see what Jun and Sun were doing on the plane before it started its decent.

#85. Posted by: Dusten at October 9, 2005 6:06 PM

anyone figure out how to login into the dharma website?

#86. Posted by: gettinglost at October 9, 2005 8:13 PM

From: http://aboutdharma.org/dharma-wheel.php

Buddha's teachings, which are known as "Dharma", are likened to a wheel that moves from country to country in accordance with changing conditions and people's karmic inclinations. The external forms of presenting Buddhism may change as it meets with different cultures and societies, but its essential authenticity is ensured through the continuation of an unbroken lineage of realized practitioners. Buddha's teachings are said to be like a precious wheel because, wherever they spread, the people in that area have the opportunity to control their minds by putting them into practice.

#87. Posted by: gettinglost at October 9, 2005 8:18 PM

As somewhat of a computer guru, I wonder if it's possible to work backwards from the md5/hex(?) characters that are given as the target username and password and work backwards to the actual text that someone would need to type into the form in order to login.

I tried this here:
http://jtsitedesigns.freezope.org/lost/login

It seems they are using the md5.js script that you can download here:

http://pajhome.org.uk/crypt/md5/md5src.html

The idea would be to take the target text and pass it through the same functions as the original script, only in reverse.

For my form, I simply passed the values of the original form fields through (what I think is) the same function as in the original script

var hash = hex_md5(uid + pwd);

The idea here is that, if you're lucky, you can put in some seeminly obvious passwords such as "oceanic" and "flight815" then eyeball the final results after the form is submitted.

Anyone care to take this idea and run with it?

#88. Posted by: JohnT at October 10, 2005 1:58 AM

Dharma means "nature" and "duty" and "one's duty to Nature based on one's own nature". For example, the dharma of fire. The nature of fire is comprised of two factors: 1) luminosity and 2)thermal. Hence the nature of fire is to produce light and heat. That is an essential definition. Based on fire's nature it has the duty to illuminate space, and burn regardless of time, place or circumstance. If a child touches it burns, if a wise man touches it burns. That is nature-based duty. Similarly, it must illuminate in China as well as in any part of the world.

There are two sets of dharmic duties for humans because we have two natures. We have our temporal bodily nature, and we have our eternal spiritual nature (related to the soul). We have a spiritual body that is residing within this material body.

Duties related to the body are called varnasrama-dharma, and duties related to the soul are called sanatana-dharma.

Varna = the four natural occupational divisions within society (inteelectual, administrative, priductive and labor).

Asrama = the four natural stages of life (student, householder, retired, renounced).

Sanatana = eternal and relates to the nature of the soul. The sanatana-dharma (nature/duty) of the soul is to love and serve God.

When we fail to do that we come here to this temporal realm and are given temporal varnasrama duties to follow that will eventually lead us back to our sanatana-dharma.

#89. Posted by: Namaste at October 10, 2005 2:19 AM

OK, these are the main areas of investigation at the Dharma F:
meteorology: Remember when Locke was talking with someone (boone i guess) and he predicted that was going to rain just seconds before it actually started raining?
psychology: I think Desmond is part of a huge psychology experiment, he has to play a part to include all these people into the hatch and the buttom stuff
parapsychology: Walt!
zoology: we have the polar bears (Danielle talks about them when she first meets Sayid), and what about the monster Locke sees, maybe is a familiar animal which was change of size in a zoology experiment, remember Locke kind of recognize it in some way whe he saw it
electromagnetism: that's way everithing is attracted to the islend (Boats, plains, etc)

The three islands are owned by Hanso and he and his team develope the proyects in it, that´s why we can find all these stuff, the crash is a new experiment, and Hanso paid to everyone to put these persons in the plain and he paid for the crash and to be forgotten or at least not been notice by the authorities (remember when Boone found the radio and someone in the other line says that there hasn't been any accident with that flight number?)

Well this is it, sorry about my english!

#90. Posted by: alan at October 10, 2005 1:40 PM

Hi !
I found this page by typing one of the md5 sums in google ...
If the script used for coding the login/password is a real md5 script, it is almost impossible to reverse so result ...
So, there are 2 solutions :
- It is a real md5 sum, you just have your tears and can start trying to log in by entering lot of different login/password
- It is NOT a real md5 sum, then that would say that they made that to turn us wrong, and it would probably be possible to reverse it ...

I also want to add that there are 2 md5 sums which are correct, and a md5 sum is unique, so there is 2 couples of login/pwd ... AND appearently you could use the password instead of the login and vice versa (if login = foo and pwd = goo works, login = goo and pwd = foo should work)
As they use the password and the login in the url, there are probably 4 different urls available ...
Greetz from France !

Gmooron

#91. Posted by: Gmooron at October 10, 2005 7:17 PM

Well, it appears that their source code from the md5 sum comes from here :
http://pajhome.org.uk/crypt/md5/md5src.html
So it's probably a real one ...
You can't reverse the password but there are some software to generate a lot of md5 hashes in a reasonnable time and compare the result with a hash you already have ...
I am currently trying one one the first md5 sum ...
And I am just thinking that I'm wrong about the number of combination ...
There are only two as the password and login are concatenated.
And a md5 sum of aabb is normally different from a md5 sum of bbaa ... So there are only two valid couples of login/pwd but they can be the same but inverted ...

#92. Posted by: Gmooron at October 10, 2005 7:55 PM

You can do it from here, either in eMule, Torrent or direct download
form. The episodes are all in english, though there's the chance of
getting them with spanish subtitles.

http://www.lost-perdidos.com/

If you need any help with the spanish lingo, just let me know.

For your info, some basics:

Descarga=Download
Temporada=Season
Cap�tulo=Episode
V.O. means Versi�n Original, which means it's in english.
Descarga Directa=Direct Download.

They are high quality tv all of them, so download away, man!!!

Regards,

See ya.

Not that I condone piracy (I do!), but apart from that, it's
impossible to follow the show on the Spanish TV, as they dont have a
fixed day to show the episodes, and they don't even keep the original
order. Sometimes on a tuesday you'll get epidodes 4-5-6, next sunday
the 20th, and thurs night the 2nd one, so it's impossible unless
you've got a good internet connection to rely on.

#93. Posted by: Ricardito at October 11, 2005 7:56 AM

I'm pretty confident that the big black guy that attacked Jin, Sawyer and Mike is one of the Nigerian drug-smugglers from the plane where Boone died.

Quite how he got to working with Ana-Lucia i'm not too sure. Probably just an alliance - it seems that the survivors from the tail-end have had a much harsher 40 days or so compared with our survivors we know and love.

#94. Posted by: Mada at October 11, 2005 10:08 AM

Please, ppl... this is from episode 3, season 1...

Could it be that the plane itself was a Dharma experiment?

http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tabularasa5305tm.jpg

#95. Posted by: Ricardito at October 11, 2005 11:54 AM

Could the electromagnetism be pulling the plains in to crash on the island? Could it also be somehow blocking the rest of the world from finding the plane? Also some other thoughts that have poped into my head is, since that print found on the bottem of the shark is everywhere could the whole island be planned. If any of you have seen the movie Cube or Cube2 it remindes me of this, people put into a situtation and they are then watched to see how they act. Maybe, maybe not.

#96. Posted by: Caffi at October 11, 2005 6:56 PM

Ok Everyone, I read a lot of interesting stuff and you gave me a lot to consider. However, I'm not computer savy enough to understand any of the talk about login and passwords. Will you please give us the password to the login found on http://thedharmainitiative.org/ ?

Thanks in advance.

#97. Posted by: Sam at October 11, 2005 9:50 PM

The timelines did not match!
I found this when I tried to find out what had happened after Locke first reseted the counter back to 108. I kept playing ep1 to ep3 again and again to document this...
In ep2, 8sec after Locke had reseted the counter, he and Desmond heard Jack's voice. This can be sync. with ep1 where Jack shouted for Kate and Locke.
Now in ep1, after Jack had shouted, he jumped down to the hatch and at least 3min23sec later he heard the music. Again this is another reference point in ep2 where Desmond started this. Up to now, the counter should be displaying 105 or 104.
In ep2, the music ran for 28sec and stopped at "Make your...". But sadly, this did not sync. with ep1. In ep1, the music ran longer for 1min4sec and stopped at "Sing your...". WHAT A CARELESS MISTAKE THE SHOW MAKING TEAM HAD MADE! Despite this fact, the counter should be displaying 104 or 103 now.
Then the three guys started their talk. From ep1, we know that at least 42sec later, Desmond made a gun shot to the air duct. Linking this to ep2, Kate started to crawl again 10sec after the shot. Then we go to ep3 and see that Kate took at least 58sec until she knocked down Desmond. 42sec later, we saw the counter was displaying 97...
If the countings above are correct, the counter should be displaying 100 instead of 97, what is this missing 3min? From what we have seen in the show, all the events are linked except we dont know how long had Kate crawled in the air duct after she left the air duct opening. Did she crawl for 3min and making it 3min58sec in total until she knocked down Desmond? If this was the case, Jack and Desmond must had had their gun talk for another 3min. We dont know what they said in such a tense situation, but when Kate was approaching Desmond, Jack was saying "I am not putting down anything"...wait, hadnt he said that 3min ago when Desmond shot at the air duct? Were they repeating the same dialogues over and over for 3min? Or was that the same dialogue we heard 3min ago? If this was the case, there must be TWO KATE which exist in two different timeline!!! One was still crawling in the air duct, while the other one had knocked down Desmond. Just my guess.

Another thing is, we saw the counter was at 84 1min58sec after Desmond started searching the jar, that means the counter was originally at 86. Did we see that Desmond started to repair the computer when the counter was at 97? What was he doing in these 11min??? Wouldnt he get the screws in the first place instead of 11min later!??

More questions, where does the other exit of the hatch lead? If it is easy enough for Kate to leave the exit and headed back to the beach, and managed to find the exit again when she went back with Sayid, why counldnt they find that exit before?

Sorry for my bad English.

#98. Posted by: Student at October 12, 2005 7:44 AM

OK, Student, maybe you shouldnt be concentrating so hard on the extact timeline. Just enjoy what the writers/director/and cast are showing us. All questions will be answered and ironically it just takes time. I personnally think it would be very difficult putting the scene with desmond, jake, kate, and locke together the way they did. To be off 11 min shouldnt mean a thing, it was probably a mistake. Who knows maybe it'll be explained later on in the season. I dont think Desmond is gone for good. I am waiting to find out whose going to lead the group in Station 3 and to find out more about the captors of Jun, Michael and Sawyer. Lost Is the Best Show ever made! Here's to 10 more season!!!!!

#99. Posted by: Dusten at October 12, 2005 8:30 AM

If you go to oceanic-air.com seating chart, after locating all the main characters seats, click on pre-flight check-in. The name Ethan Rom appears (the guy that took Claire). You can click and drag the letters into the boxes below. Rearrange the letters to spell OTHER MAN and you get a clip of the guy on the boat that took Walt. Does this mean the guy was on the plane?

#100. Posted by: Dee at October 12, 2005 1:35 PM

This MAY be a spolier:
if you highlight the Special Announcement on www.oceanic-air.com,it says, "I have survived a horrific plane crash..." and more. Take a look for yourself!

#101. Posted by: Susan at October 12, 2005 2:10 PM

O.K. if you go to https://www.thehansofoundation.org/ you see a url

http://www.bigspaceship1.com

If you go there you see two bears gliding back and forth. The Title tag of the site is in morse code. The code, translated reads, "Lets Catch Humans All Day Then Throw Them Away".

#102. Posted by: Don at October 12, 2005 5:23 PM

If you look closely on the flash animation at bigpaceship1.com, a red dot appears for an instant ever time the polar bears intersect. If you pause and zoom in, this code appears: 2FENO6

md5 anyone? does it match username or password?

#103. Posted by: jon at October 12, 2005 5:46 PM

More about the numbers....they departed from gate "23" at the airport.

#104. Posted by: Janet at October 12, 2005 5:48 PM

There's even more on the oceanic-air website.
If you highlight the Important Announcement and paste it into a document, it shows two S.O.S. letters; one from Sally and one unsigned AND pencil drawings of New York skyline and a man in the hospital.

#105. Posted by: susan at October 12, 2005 7:44 PM

Did anyone already note that the first five numbers add up to 66 and the last number's digits (4+2) = 6, giving 666? The number 42 is separate from the other numbers on the winning lottery ticket, so that sequence seems to make sense . . . coincidence? I don't think so. Anyone else have a theory on this?

#106. Posted by: Mom at October 13, 2005 12:39 AM

I think the "The others" we see, are actually all survivors of the tail section of the plane. They could have had a much worse time in the open Jungle, with all the bears and strange smoke monsters, explaining the loss of shirt and makeshift weapons.

#107. Posted by: Born_Acorn at October 13, 2005 5:17 AM

The morse code in bigspaceship1.com title is composed by 2 words:
chocolate and asclepius

look here for asclepius:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asclepius

I've tried chocolate/asclepius/2FENO6 in Dharma login page, but always "Invalid login"

#108. Posted by: Gabriele at October 13, 2005 6:08 AM

Did anyone else catch the fact that the doctors left arm in the orientation video never moves. Obviously it's a fake. Thought that was interesting though.

#109. Posted by: Sam at October 13, 2005 10:36 AM

The polar bear thing on bigspaceship1.com, makes some sort of creature. My guess it is the monster who took the pilot and the one we may not have seen yet. And for the code on the red dot, I have no earthly clue lol - John

#110. Posted by: John at October 14, 2005 4:00 PM

For the md5 sum. I'm putting together a Rainbow Table and am trying to reverse the md5 numbers. It'll take a day or so to get the rainbow table completed and probably another day to go through the table and find anything that matches.

If anyone would like to contribute some possible words that the user id and password could be that would be great and I can try a "Dictionary" method at cracking this.

Also, if you look at the code there are 2 possible correct login combinations. However, since the md5 of "foogoo" is different from the md5 of "goofoo" then only one of them will work as this site demonstrates:

http://jtsitedesigns.freezope.org/lost/login

I'll keep you posted to what I find.

#111. Posted by: rkitect at October 14, 2005 4:23 PM

"She and Jack giggled and flirted over a couple of drinks and Ana-Lucia went out of her way to tell Jack the following:

She was on his flight (Oceanic 815).

She was in Seat 42F (back of the plane)."

Ok, my observation is this: according to the seating chart on www.oceanic-air.com ... THERE IS NOT, I REPEAT IS NOT A SEAT NUMBERED 42F!!!
The chart does list Ana's seat in the 42nd row, but it's in the center aisle, row F is on the side and doesn't go to 42!!!
WTH does THAT mean???

#112. Posted by: H§Fexile at October 14, 2005 9:38 PM

hover your mouse over the seat, and the info on economy class starts blinking 42F.. click on the seat, and it says 42F Ana Lucia. The whole Flash then goes haywire and becomes a trailer for the new season. Kinda freaked me out, as my speakers were set on high volume...

#113. Posted by: jon at October 15, 2005 4:10 PM

rkitect >>
I am also running a program with rainbow tables ...
But it takes about 6 days to go, I will probably have finished on Tuesday (I have currently generating 26 000 000 of 40 000 000 rainbow chains) with a probability of 60% per password ...
But we probably have different methods because in 1 day, I can't generate a lot of rainbow chains ..

#114. Posted by: Gmooron at October 15, 2005 6:03 PM

I realize this is a bit late, but I just studied the Dharma Initiative Swan Logo and realized that the 'lines' surrounding the Swan Pic octagon look like I Ching symbols. I have a reference book here that I can look into, if anyone this is a viable reference. I love the recaps, the detail and deconstructions are wonderful, keep up the great work!!

#115. Posted by: Kevin Plumb at October 18, 2005 9:40 PM

Just a thought but maybe due to the electro-magnetic influences, Flight 815 may have went through a Bermuda Triangle type of time warp & crashed onto the ancient version of Australia.
I noticed on the Oceanic-Air homepage that theres an advert telling you to visit 'Ancient Australia'.
That may be what they meant on the Dharma training movie regarding the incident that occured which meant them having to push the button every 108 seconds (to prevent any further time distortions!)

#116. Posted by: Mank Randolph at October 19, 2005 7:26 AM

no1 even replied 2 the third comment :'(

#117. Posted by: :'( at October 19, 2005 11:48 AM

Someone may have mentioned this, but B.F. Skinner wrote an obscure fictional novel called "Walden Two". Skinner claimed that the ultimate purpose of his research was to help create a utopian society. His book could be considered a manual in methods of doing so.

#118. Posted by: Heather Day at October 20, 2005 2:02 AM

Did anyone notice that Micheal is in the DHARMA Orientation movie? He is the classroom with a hige afro. He is also in the lab...

Did anyone notice that Walt was on the side of the milk carton that Hugo was drinking in his dream?

#119. Posted by: Matthias de Haan at October 20, 2005 3:21 PM

This sight is awesome.. I found a cool sight..
http://www.driveshaftband.com/flight815_5.htm

Check it out...

#120. Posted by: Wendy at October 24, 2005 3:58 PM

So I have gone to http://www.bigspaceship1.com

like 10 times.. I have never seen the polor bear, just what looked like numbers all done out in red dots and the morse code at the top. It has been driving my nuts...
So I tried it again, and now I get a green screen with what looks like almonds all lined up in a different mannor, doing the wave.. No music this time at all.. (and the music on the first one that I heard was STRANGE say the least.. like chipmunks on acid..trippy)
Am I going to the right place?
HELP...

#121. Posted by: yaya at October 24, 2005 7:25 PM

Hurley mentioned something about someone getting hit my a meteor, or rather a meteorite as part of his bad luck chain of events. And honestly it looked like there was someone lying on the top bunker in the Hatch, covered by a blanket when Jack was talking to Desmond. Kelvin was it? Freaky but i could've sworn that's what i saw.

#122. Posted by: Lena at October 27, 2005 2:34 PM

Ok well recently i have found out some real weird Lost related things. No sorry I got nothing on the dharma site cept if you whois it it aint by abc so it might be a fake. But it still good to get to the bottom of it!
Now for those who are up to date with series 2 you all know that this next episode is going top be legendary!
Also on the orientation video does anyone notice when the scientist guy explains about pressing the button (i think) and the screen kinda bugs up, if you pause it can you see something that looks like a white spider or scorpion in the top right near the mans head?
WARNING!!! For anyone who does not want the exciting turns spoilt for them (I know i didnt but i stumbled on this by accident) dont follow the below. It clarifies the TRUE meaning of what was meant by "infected" plus an even more shocking turn of events!!
Go to www.oceanicflights815.com (not sure if it is spelt right) click on the barcode type thing at the bottom and type theislandiswaiting for a sneak and what i say amazing turn of events peek at a page of the script

#123. Posted by: Jay at October 29, 2005 6:44 PM

Phase 3 Disclosure:

The Dharma Initiative is not a secret international research project. You see, the island is part of another "dimension", I guess you'd call it, and is sort of "in between" the universes that are made of light matter and dark matter. We call it "Dharma". It's part of a whole planet that is pretty much available for colonization. It could also be used as a future conduit for inter-dimensional/intergalactic travel. The only problem is that we can't exist there naturally. The island only materializes when there's a solar eclipse. During that time the unique electromagnetic frequency added to the gravitational distortion allows both it and us to exist within the same space. But that "effect only lasts for 108 minutes, and then the island disappears from our world, taking any inanimate matter with it that's left behind.
If you were standing on the island after the primary eclipse period ended and the 108 minutes were up, you'd feel a great big suck of air and then "PLOP!" you'd fall right back into the ocean. Naked.
We are trying to change that. Actually, Majestic 13 developed a machine years ago that allows us to exist there. It's weird, but once us and the island "disappear" into the Dharma dimension, we have days and nights just like the earth one. But we can't travel more than 42 kilometers outside the machine's effective range.
The plan is to develop a way to genetically engineer animals with the right quantum frequency so they can exist in Dharma on their own. That's what the project is all about,

and until now it's been classified.

probably

#124. Posted by: john at November 22, 2005 10:26 AM

I did a FINGER to thedharmainitiative.org site, and got the following info :

C:\WINNT>finger cknisley@thedharmainitiative.org

[thedharmainitiative.org]
Login: cknisley Name: Craig
Directory: /home/cknisley Shell: /bin/bash
On since Thu Dec 1 19:56 (PST) on pts/4 from pool-71-107-82-151.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net
8 minutes 10 seconds idle
No mail.
No Plan.


So this might be the username for the site ... now all we need is the PASSWORD !

#125. Posted by: axewater at December 9, 2005 11:03 AM

If you go onto bigspaceship1.com now, you get a small text message in the top right corner saying "Time God". At first I was sceptical about this "Time travel" theory but, it could be correct after all, Maybe on of the 48 survivors is Time God.

Also, the username and password thing for dhama might be a persons name and there corrisponding password, This Hex stuff is to complicated I think for the writers to come up with...your all thinking too far outside the box

#126. Posted by: Dr Thomas Mittelwerk at May 16, 2006 5:50 AM