The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Man from Tallahassee"

Season 3, Episode 13
Episode Air Date: 03/21/07

Point 1
Locke

Ben
Oh ... my.

Prior to this episode, the phrase "Ben's Magic Box" was merely an immature euphemism that didn't hold much relevance (beyond being gross ... and kinda funny). But now, "Ben's Magic Box" might just be the most important thing in this entire show.

And the thing is, the Magic Box was only one of many jaw droppers in "The Man from Tallahassee."

So let's get to it!

The episode picks up where "Par Avion" left off -- Locke, Kate, Sayid and Rousseau watch incredulously as Jack cavorts/plays football with their mortal Other enemy, Tom. Juliet appears in the Other yard and saunters over to Jack all flirty and casual. Kate blinks -- she can't believe that 80 days of coy smiles and tight jeans and "whoopsie, I just came out of this steamy shower half-naked" maneuvers have been wiped from Jack's memory by that diabolical blond hussy.

The scene gets even more intriguing when Jack cheerfully accompanies Juliet back toward a nearby bungalow and Juliet rolls an on-the-mend Ben out in a wheelchair. Jack shakes Ben's hand and the two appear to share some sort of thought/comment -- and for once, that thought or comment doesn't involve Jack threatening to nick one of Ben's vital organs.

As all of this plays out, Rousseau silently walks off. She smells a supple young boar lounging unaware in the sun. Lunchtime!

Locke, who's watching the Jack-Ben proceedings through binoculars, lowers his peeping-tom specs and utters the understatement of the episode: "This is going to be more complicated than we thought."

Now, I'm no military genius, but I never did quite figure out how Locke, Kate, Sayid and Rousseau were going to pluck Jack from a fortified Other stronghold. I'm not sure they figured it out, either.

No matter. Jack's apparent assimilation into the Others' collective forces the Jack Rescue Group to rethink its plan. Locke says they should lie low, wait for dark, and then meet with Jack privately to see if he actually wants to be rescued.

Night falls and the trio watches as Jack and Juliet share a quiet moment outside Jack's "apartment." The pair bid each other goodnight and Jack quietly closes the door behind him ... alone. Locke, Kate and Sayid sprint across the dark lawn like ninjas -- really loud ninjas. Each is supposed to cover a specific area, or monitor a specific spot, or some such nonsense.

Kate successfully creeps into Jack's apartment and moves quietly down a hallway. Jack is playing piano in a nearby room. Kate appears in the doorway, but Jack doesn't notice her. He stops the tune and slowly turns.

"Hi," Kate says, not sure if she's supposed to smile or frown or lift her shirt (it works for Sawyer).

Jack isn't pleased. He's not pleased at all. His eyes dart toward a corner of the room and Kate sees a closed-circuit security camera. Jack pleads/orders her to leave immediately, but Kate holds her ground -- she came all this way to rescue Jack, and that's what she intends to do.

Or not.

The front door to Jack's apartment busts open and a platoon of armed Others spills inside. Kate is pushed to the ground as additional Others drag Sayid into the room. An Other digs his pistol into Kate's neck and demands to know who else is with them. Kate looks at Sayid. Sayid looks at Kate.

"Nobody, it's just us," she lies.

And this little lie opens the door to an epic showdown between Locke and Ben.

With the Others temporarily convinced that Kate and Sayid are working alone, Locke is given time to break into Ben's bungalow.

Ben's recent surgery prevents him from sleeping upside down as he normally does. Instead, he's splayed in a Craftmatic and when he hears a noise in his living room, he mechanically whirs himself into a defensive position (Setting No. 108).

Locke appears, his gun trained on Ben's buggy eyes.

Ben wastes no time offering Locke exactly what he wants.

"I can show you where Jack is," Ben says.

And this is when Locke pulls the rug out.

"I'm not looking for Jack," Locke says. "I'm looking for the submarine."

Locke wants the sub?

Ben feigns ignorance. "Uh, submarine? What submarine?"

A knock sounds at Ben's bedroom door. It's Alex. Ben's mouth quivers and he starts to ask Locke to leave her out of their little conversation ... but Locke flings open the door and drags Alex inside.

At that exact moment, Tom pounds on the front door of Ben's bungalow. Locke pulls Alex into Ben's closet (bumping into an assortment of gimp paraphernalia) as Tom and another Other enter Ben's bedroom.

Tom doesn't realize that an Oceanic Interloper is hiding in the room, and Ben doesn't offer any hints because his daughter is being held captive (to Locke's credit, he doesn't point the gun at Alex -- he just shoves her in the corner and tells her to keep her pie-hole shut). Tom tells Ben that Sayid and Kate have been captured and Ben offers some sort of directive ("tie 'em up" or "lock 'em up" or "make them watch the '04 World Series tape"). Tom leaves and Ben's attention turns to the second Other. His name is Richard, and judging by his height, weight and the faint smell of eyeliner wafting from his orbital sockets, it appears to be Richard Alpert, the guy who recruited/dragged Juliet to the island in "Not in Portland."

"I want you to bring me the man from Tallahassee," Ben instructs Richard.

Uh ... what? Is that code?

Richard leaves and Locke drags Alex out of the closet. He has a plan: He wants Alex to find Sayid and retrieve his backpack (this is the same backpack containing the C4 Locke plucked from the Flame station). Alex shows a momentary glimpse of concern for Ben -- the first we've seen from her -- then scampers off to find the pack.

This leaves Locke and Ben alone for a few minutes ... and oh what an interesting time we're about to have.

Ben asks Locke to help him into his wheelchair so he can roll around while doling out island mysteries and lies. Locke at first resists, but Ben plays to Locke's past. "I just want some dignity," Ben says. "You of all people should understand what it means to want some dignity."

If Ben had a handlebar mustache, he'd be twirling it.

As Locke moves to help, Ben continues his devious deconstruction of Locke's psyche. He asks Locke how he intends to pilot the Others' submarine (thereby confirming the sub's existence). Locke puffs his chest and says that for all Ben knows, he's a former submarine captain ... a decorated captain with lots of medals and lovely ladies in every port.

Ben stifles a smile ... he's really going to enjoy this next bit.

Ben takes a breath and loads up for a classic Henry Gale monologue. In the span of the next 30 seconds, he tells Locke exactly what he knows about him:

  • Ben knows Locke was born in California and raised in foster care.
  • He knows Locke wasted many years working at a box company in Tustin, Calif. (More on this in a second.)
  • Ben knows Locke spent the four years prior to arriving on the island in a wheelchair.
  • And here's the kicker ... Ben knows how Locke got in that wheelchair.

Locke blinks. That was unexpected.

"Tell me, John. Did it hurt?" Ben asks, evil dripping from his chin.

"I felt my back break," Locke says. "What do you think?"

Sidenote 1: Remember this dialogue. It's going to be very important later on.

Sidenote 2: Ben's comment about Locke's employment at the box company seems a little off to me. Judging from what we've seen of Locke's backstory, I always figured that Locke went to work at the box company after he was in the wheelchair. If we're to believe Ben's timeline -- i.e. Locke was in the wheelchair for four years -- then it seems Locke couldn't have worked at the box company for more than four years, which is a significant period but not the ungodly amount of time Ben seems to imply it is. Or am I missing something here?

Moving on ...

The power balance in the Locke-Ben conversation soon shifts to Locke because Ben can't contain his curiosity. He asks -- in a giddy and uncharacteristic way -- if Locke regained use of his legs immediately after the plane crash. Locke confirms he did, but then he arches an eyebrow and gazes at Ben. He knows why he's so curious. "You're wondering why it's not the same for you," Locke says, a grin carving across his face. "How'd you get sick in the first place, anyway?"

Touche, Mr. Locke.

Ben's temper rises and his defenses come down. He says he knows Locke isn't going to pilot the sub -- he's going to use the C4 he stole from the Flame station to blow it up. He knows that Locke doesn't want to leave the island because the island has given him life, and if the sub is gone, there's no escape.

It's quite a conclusion -- especially that bit about the C4 (Ben masterfully connects the dots: Locke was in the Flame station, which means he found the C4, which means he can use the C4, which means Locke now has legitimate power ... if Ben wasn't so damn evil I'd admire the little bugger's detective skills).

Locke tosses off Ben's conclusion and the moment passes. The pair moves to the kitchen so Locke can munch chicken wings and scarf Dharma juice.

Ben realizes his psychoanalytic tactics aren't working, so he opts for the direct route. Rolling up to Locke (whose face is covered in chicken bits), Ben puts on his Honest Eyes.

"If you blow the sub up, I have a big problem with my people," Ben says.

Locke stops munching.

Ben tells Locke that he's one of the few Others who was born on the island. Most of his comrades were recruited and brought in, and despite their loyalty to the Others' way of life, these folks need to know they can leave anytime they want. If Locke blows up the sub, Ben can no longer dangle the "leave anytime" carrot, and that's going to call Ben's leadership into question.

Ben continues: Since Locke already has a clear affinity for the island, Ben is willing to share the island's secrets if Locke does him just one wee favor: don't blow up the sub.

"I can show you things, things I know you want to see very badly," Ben says. "Let me put it so you'll understand. Picture a box. What if I told you that somewhere on this island there's a very large box and whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be in it, when you opened that box there it would be. What would you say about that, John?"

Locke pauses, mulling over Ben's Magic Box.

"I'd say I hope that box is big enough to imagine yourself up a new submarine," Locke spits sarcastically.

Now, Locke's comment is funny and fitting, but you know the 8-year-old boy trapped inside Locke is screaming "Show me the box! I wanna see the box!"

Ben's frustration swells. He asks Locke why he's so angry and Locke, in a twist, admits that his anger stems from the Others' hypocrisy. He's mad because, in Locke's mind, the Others are "cheating." They're living on this mystical and wonderful island, but they're doing it with electricity, and submarines and refrigerators full of delicious chicken. To Locke, this is anathema.

Sidenote: This "hypocrisy" bit taps into a part of Locke's personality that's been dormant for a while. At the beginning of season one, Locke's desire to be an explorer and to commune with nature was one of his essential motivations, but all the business with the hatch and the Others and Eko's death put Locke's nature-boy side on the back burner ... or so I believed. Apparently, it's still a key part of his personality.

Anyway ...

Ben snaps at Locke's "hypocrisy" comment. "How do you know this island better than I do?" Ben sneers.

"Because you're in a wheelchair and I'm not," Locke snorts.

Locke appears poised to push Ben down a flight of stairs, but fortunately for Ben all the Other bungalows have single-floor designs. More fortunate still, Alex arrives with Sayid's backpack and Locke's attention is diverted.

Locke orders Alex to guide him to the submarine. He moves to leave, but Ben wants to make one last-ditch attempt to stop Operation Boom. Ben tells Locke that Jack made a deal with him, and in less than an hour Jack is going to leave the island in the submarine. The problem is, the Purple Sky incident -- Ben calls it "the anomaly" -- knocked out the Others' communication systems, so the sub cannot return. "Whether you destroy it or let it go, the end result is the same," Ben says. "No one will find this island."

Locke remains unconvinced. He points Alex toward the door and the pair exit Ben's bungalow. Ben huffs then rolls toward the TV to catch the last half of a "Golden Girls" marathon.

So Alex guides Locke to the shoreline and points out the submarine. Locke apologizes to Alex for involving her in his plan and with that Alex is free to go. She zips back through the trees and disappears from sight.

But in an interesting twist, someone is watching from the bushes ...

It's Rousseau! A single tear drips through the deep cracks in Rousseau's cheek as she realizes that her daughter is alive.

But enough of this Rousseau family drama, we've got a sub to blow up!

Locke goes into the sub and roots around, looking for the best place to attack its weak point for massive damage. The sub itself isn't Red October, but it's much larger than you'd expect. It's lined with beds and contains at least three compartments -- maybe more.

Moments later, Locke emerges from the sub (oddly, his pants are drenched -- did he put the C4 on the outside of the sub?). He casually walks back down the dock, but his exit is blocked by the arrival of Jack, Juliet and a group of armed Others.

It just so happens that Jack and Juliet were about to leave the island ...

Yeah, about that.

The armed Others force Locke to his knees. He looks up.

"I'm sorry Jack," Locke says with faux sincerity.

"Sorry for what?"

Locke doesn't answer. He waits ... three ... two ... one ...

BOOOOOOOOOOM!

A massive fireball blows into the sky as the C4 detonates.

Jack, Juliet and the Others dive for cover, but Locke stays put -- he doesn't even turn to admire his handiwork.

That sub is toast.

Jack glares at Locke. The problems these two had in the past don't even compare to the issues they've got now (Man of Rage, Man of Boom).

Locke is brought back to the Others' compound and chained in a boiler room (apparently, "Lost" and "24" are sharing sets now). Ben is rolled into the room by Richard Alpert, but Locke isn't in the mood for Ben's nonsense. See, Locke knows Ben could have lifted the C4 from his bag, but he didn't, and that means that Ben wanted Locke to blow up the submarine.

But Ben has a little twist on this argument. He rolls closer to Locke.

See, Ben is a man consumed by power -- actually, check that, he's consumed by maintaining power -- and up until recently he was in a bit of a power pickle because his deal with Jack showed weakness, and weakness cuts leaders off at the knees (so to speak). On the flip side, Ben couldn't kill Jack because he gave his word and if he went back on his word that, too, would cast aspersions on his leadership.

But then Locke opted to blow up the submarine and Ben's problems were eradicated in that glorious fireball. Now, Ben can keep Jack on the island without reneging on his deal.

He tells Locke all this and Locke seems momentarily dazed; Locke isn't sure if he just helped or hindered his cause.

Ben instructs Alpert to uncuff Locke. Since Locke has been so very helpful in keeping Ben perched on his Other throne, Ben wants to reward Locke with a little glimpse into the island's Magic Box.

Alpert and Ben move out of the boiler room and guide Locke down a short, dirty hallway (it looks subterranean). Alpert unlocks a heavy metal door and cracks it open.

Ben looks up at Locke.

We need to pause a moment because this next bit's massive revelation is infinitely more jaw-dropping when Locke's backstory is added to the mix. So this seems like a good time to ...

CUE BACKSTORY SWOOSH

This episode's backstory is the most revelatory in series history because we discover -- undeniably -- the answer to one of the show's very first questions:

We see how Locke ended up in the wheelchair.

Here's how it plays out:

  • As the backstory begins, Locke is down and out, depressed and quite pathetic. He's visited by a young man named Peter Talbott and Peter has an interesting story to tell. His mother recently became engaged to an older man -- a guy who calls himself Adam Seward -- but Peter doesn't trust the guy, so he did some digging. That digging revealed the man's other identity: Anthony Cooper. Peter's research also revealed that Locke "donated" a kidney to Cooper.

    So Peter, in an effort to do his due diligence on his future stepfather, visits Locke to get the inside scoop. Who is this Seward guy? Why does he use an alias? Why did Locke give him a kidney?

  • But Locke is in no mood to dredge up the past, so he tells Peter that the kidney donation was anonymous and he doesn't know Seward/Cooper at all. Peter departs and Locke continues shuffling through his pathetic little life.

  • As we've seen in the past, Anthony Cooper is Locke's kryptonite. Locke's desire for "family" is so powerful, he simply can't stay away from the guy, even though he's a conman kidney thief. So Locke tracks Cooper and issues an ultimatum: Cooper needs to break off his engagement or Locke will reveal his true identity to his fiancee. Cooper reluctantly agrees.
  • Everything seems nice and tidy, but since this is Locke's backstory (and since we're only halfway through it), you just know tragedy awaits. The Dark Hand of Fate intervenes when a pair of detectives show up on Locke's doorstep with questions about Peter Talbott. Turns out, Talbott and his family are worth more than $200 million, and that's particularly relevant since Talbott recently turned up dead. When he died, Talbott had a scrap of paper with Locke's name and address on it, and so the detectives probe Locke for details.
  • Locke seems to be a suspect in Peter's death -- or at least a "person of interest" -- so Locke once again tracks down Cooper and confronts him. Cooper is living the high life in an eighth-floor apartment with panoramic views and all the latest amenities. Clearly, Cooper didn't keep his word about breaking the engagement and now Locke wants to know if he had a hand in Peter's death.

    And this is where it all comes together.

    Cooper claims that Peter's death has sent his fiancee into a downward spiral and she's called off the wedding. Locke doesn't believe it, so he challenges Cooper: if Locke calls the wayward fiancee, will she confirm Cooper's story? Cooper points toward a phone on a table by the window. "Phone's right over there, John."

    Locke turns and grabs the phone. He presses the "on" button.

    Hold on to your britches, you're not going to believe this next part.

    Cooper lunges at Locke! The spry old guy slams his shoulder into Locke and hurtles him toward the window. Locke slams through the glass ...

    HE GOES RIGHT THROUGH IT!

    Locke FALLS 8 stories! Arms flailing, lungs screaming, Locke drops like a stone and WHACKS into the ground.

    This is it! This is how he became paralyzed! His own father tried to kill him! Holy Moses on toast, Cooper tried to kill him!

  • Sometime after the accident, Locke is visited at the hospital by the two detectives who were investigating Peter Talbott's death. They tell him that Cooper fled to Mexico and then disappeared. He could be anywhere.

    The detectives depart and Locke's physical therapist enters the room. He lifts Locke into a wheelchair. Locke looks down at his unfeeling, lifeless feet. He weeps.

    And with that, the backstory ends

Returning to the island ...

Ben, Locke and Alpert are clustered outside the metal door. In the adjacent room, a Magic Box surprise awaits.

"When I asked you earlier if it hurt when you suffered your injury, I think you misunderstood me," Ben says, rubbing his hands in anticipation. "I really wasn't asking about the physical pain ..."

Locke looks down.

"I wanted to know what it felt like when your own father tried to kill you."

Locke's eyebrows pop. How does Ben know this stuff?

Ben keeps pounding. He concludes that Locke is afraid of his father ... and this island is the one place in the world where Cooper can never find him. That's why he doesn't want to leave. That's why he destroyed the sub.

Locke tries to shake off Ben's psycho babble. It stings.

Ben is entranced by the web he's weaving; he can't stop pushing. He narrows his eyes. "I don't know how it happened, but you seem to have some communion with this island, John, and that makes you very, very important ... I want to help you."

"Why?" Locke asks.

"Because I'm in a wheelchair, and you're not," Ben says, his eyes bulging to bug-like proportions.

Ben looks toward the metal door. Locke slowly pushes it open.

The door swings ... Locke looks inside ...

No friggin way. There's just no way.

"Dad?" Locke sputters.

Cooper is in the room, bound and gagged and beaten! The Magic Box produced COOPER! Wha wha wha?!

And that's when it ends!

Point 2
Kate

Jack
About half-way through this episode, Jack and Kate share a quiet moment that's supposed to be revelatory, but I really don't get it at all -- I simply don't understand the motivations of these characters.

Anyway, here's how it goes down.

After being discovered in Jack's apartment, Kate is shackled and tossed into the Others' pool hall (yes, they have one). Kate's biggest fan -- Tom -- stops by to visit and he brings Jack with him. Oddly, Tom seems to be helping Jack -- he points toward the ceiling of the pool hall and tells Jack to be careful about what he says because someone is undoubtedly watching and listening.

So, Tom departs and Jack and Kate are left to talk. The pair do their customary talking without saying anything nonsense. There's lots of "are you hurt?" "no" "are you hurt?" "no," but what they're really saying is "can we disable that camera and go at it like bunnies on this pool table?"

Or something like that.

Anyway, Kate asks a few questions, such as:

  • Where are the kids and the other kidnapped castaways?

    Answer: Jack says they're "safe." (Thanks Jack, big help.)

  • Is Jack with the Others now?

    Answer: Jack isn't "with" anyone.

See what I mean? The entire scene plays out like this.

Kate moves toward Jack and touches his hand and the two get all close and intimate. Jack tells Kate he made a deal and he's going home first thing in the morning (this all happens before Locke stages his submarine demolition). Kate is clearly hurt -- she had dreams of raising a family of wee doctors and fugitives in a bright oceanside bungalow. Jack claims this is their best chance for rescue; he'll bring back help.

And this is when Kate asks Jack why he trusts the Others. Why does he believe they'll let him go?

"I trust them because you told me to, Kate," Jack spurts. "When you asked me to save Sawyer's life."

"What did they tell you?" Kate asks.

The question remains unanswered because Juliet appears at the door and tells Jack they need to go. "And don't get too close to that con man's chick ... we're running low on penicillin"

Jack nuzzles next to Kate and whispers in her ear. "I will come back for you," he says.

And with that, he leaves ... and I grow more confused by the second.

So let me see if I've got this straight:

Jack developed "trust" for the Others when Kate asked him to save Sawyer? I assume he's referring to the brief exchange they had in "I Do." In that scene, Kate told Jack that if he successfully operated on Ben, Juliet promised to let them all go.

So, are we to assume that this conversation cast the die? Was this the motivation for Jack's operating room double-cross?

But here's the thing: It seems that Jack's real motivation came when he saw Sawyer and Kate in flagrante delicto over the security camera. Kate doesn't realize that Jack knows about her dirty deed, but Jack appears to be using that as a deal-breaker. Since Kate is now with Sawyer (so he believes), he's willing to leave the island. Is that right?

I dunno. I still don't get it. If anyone can connect the dots, please do so in the comments area.

Point 3
Sayid

Alex
Poor Sayid. He has one minute of total screen time in this episode, and much of it happens while he's tied to a swingset.

Anyway, the big Sayid moment comes when Alex appears to retrieve the backpack with Locke's stolen C4. Sayid immediately realizes that Alex is Rousseau's daughter and, in a refreshing twist, a "Lost" character finally does more than look incredulously at another character.

"You're Alex, aren't you?" Sayid asks.

Alex turns and asks how he knows her name.

"Because you look like your mother," he says (FINALLY).

"My mother is dead," Alex says flatly.

"I'm sure that's what they told you," Sayid says quietly. "And after you meet her, you'll wish you were dead because, good lord, that woman is ripe."

Alex walks off and Sayid receives a swift punch in the gut from his Other security guard.

And that's that.

Point 4
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • My favorite exchange from this episode:

    Locke: Where do you get electricity?

    Ben: We have two giant hamsters running in a massive wheel at our secret underground lair.

  • I'm assuming that Cooper is the "man from Tallahassee," but there are a billion questions surrounding his appearance on the island. How did he get there? Why is he gagged? Why was he beaten? Why is he dressed in cabana wear? How long has he been on the island? Why was he in Tallahassee? Does his Tallahassee connection have ties to Sawyer or Kate (both of whom spent considerable time in Florida)? How glorious will it be when the smoke monster lifts Cooper eight stories and then impales him on Eko's Jesus stick?
  • What sort of government system do the Others use? Based on Ben's comments, it seems like birthright factors into the mix (or maybe Ben made that up). But they also have a jury system (as we saw at Juliet's "trial"). So, what gives? Is it a pseudo-Democracy overseen by an all-powerful Czar? Or, is it an anarcho-syndicalist commune that takes turns acting as a sort of executive officer for the week?
  • If island birth is an important factor in Other government, doesn't that make Aaron the "Baby Who Will be King?"
  • Rousseau could become a major player in the second half of the season. Now that she's gazed upon Alex with her own eyes, I could see her staging a massive coup ... or at least playing a significant role in a Jack-Locke-Kate-Sayid escape plan. I'm also looking forward to a Rousseau-Ben showdown. When she realizes she once had the man who stole her daughter trapped in a net her head will spontaneously combust.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by our "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"Expose" -- The truth behind Sun's season two abduction comes out. Elsewhere, Paulikki get their own backstory. Airs Wednesday, Mar. 28, 2007 at 10 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

First post? Totally awesome episode!!

#1. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 12:38 PM

Great review Mac... loved the episode!

#2. Posted by: LostFanInPR at March 22, 2007 12:38 PM

okay. so we learn during the episode that locke breaks his back, and that his dad is an evil biotch, but i never expected him to PUSH HIS SON OUT THE WINDOW!!! I couldn't believe it!

But at the end when Daddy Locke shows up in the holding area, was incredible. Does this mean that the mysterious box of glory does exist? Or maybe they brought him in on the sub...which doesnt work.

Anyway i think Locke is gonna pull a Sayid and torture his dad until he says hes sorry. Then Locke will give him his other kidney.

And did anyone else realize that Ben and Locke are so similar, they could be best friends. Maybe it will happen...

anyway those are my thoughts!! great episode!

#3. Posted by: nina at March 22, 2007 12:42 PM

Awesome!. Up while it's still lunch time.

#4. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 22, 2007 12:43 PM

Hey Mac,

Looking forward to your recap - just wanted to put in my 2 cents. If last night's episode doesn't prove to the naysayers that the show is finally back on track and as bada$$ as ever then nothing will.

Loved the ep, now on to reading the recap.

#5. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 12:52 PM

On a personal note....all of these overt references to Tallahassee are about to drive this UF Gator to the brink! Honestly, of all places to imortalize. Puhleez.

#6. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 12:53 PM

does anyone know what time of Locke's life it was when he was holding up the undercover cop in the pot farm? remember "I'm a hunter"?? I'm having trouble fitting that part into the timelline.

#7. Posted by: nina at March 22, 2007 12:54 PM

You rock, Mac!!! That was great.

#8. Posted by: kittikat at March 22, 2007 12:54 PM

GRAA, Mac.

Wow! I did not see that coming. When Ben led John to the door, I said to myself, Self (cuz that's what I call me) there's no way they're going to let us see what's in there. And even if they do let us see what's in there, it couldn't possibly be truly worthwhile. But Locke's dad? Holy (with all due respect to Frank Barone) Crap! Talk about your Daddy Issues…yeah, I guess I'd be a mite tiffed if my daddy had pushed me out an eight-story window.

Methinks Ben's armor is beginning to chink…first he allows Juliet to lead the book club with a discussion of a (gasp) Stephen King novel, then he gets himself captured (on purpose or otherwise) and shot and ass-whupped, then he has to promise to let Jack and Juliet leave if they fix his tumor, and now he's in a wheelchair and his daughter has a gun to her head…his "daughter" who he had told Mommy Dearest had slipped the mortal coil only to find out from a cuffed and sweaty Republican Guard that Mummy may not be quite as deceased as previously thought, and now his submarine has a bloody great hole in it. Great gosh a-mighty…Ben's starting to look like Charlie Brown trying to kick a football.

#9. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 22, 2007 12:55 PM

as soon as ben said "did it hurt?" i felt that anthony cooper was involved, though i dont believe its a magic box that makes whatever you want appear

#10. Posted by: daniel at March 22, 2007 1:04 PM

It might of just been me, but wasn't the song that Jack was playing on the piano the music LOST tends to use at the end of episode. When they do those montages. I have listened to is 3 times and it sounds really close. Anyone else think the same? Not that it is really important, but kinda interesting.

#11. Posted by: Jon is FOUND at March 22, 2007 1:05 PM

Sorry, I don't get this episode. The Sayid/Locke/Kate rescue party had all the grace of a bull elephant in a china factory. I agree with Mac, Jack is leaving in a love torn hissy fit.
I knew Locke's dad was going to be in the box the moment Locke was led to it. And while I am at it, a "magic box"? I think the shows writers must be seriously asking themselves how long they can string this out before the whole thing appears overly contrived. By the way, I love the way Locke's dad was able to stop himself from crashing through the window. And if Jack & Juliet were leaving who was going to pilot the sub? Regardless, you have to love actor who plays Ben. Great work dude.

#12. Posted by: gables79 at March 22, 2007 1:08 PM

I think Locke's dad is "The Man From Tallahassee", and I believe that he's been on the island for a while now. Maybe that is where he disappered to. Mr. Alpert asks what they need him for, as if he has been there a long time, and that he was thought to be useless. I think that they just dressed daddy-dearest up to look like he was beaten and new on the island. That, OR . . . what if "smokey" is portraying his daddy? We know he can change his shape to appear as people (Eko's bro).

#13. Posted by: Adam at March 22, 2007 1:09 PM

Here's a theory: What if "the man from Talahassee" is SMOKEY?

In other words, maybe the Others have an actual shape-changer, who can appear to be anyone, and also read minds. And they call him "the man from Talahassee".

So then, Ben told Richard to put Smokey in the box, after Locke left w/ Alex. I'm assuming - as Mac seems to agree - that the 'Magic Box' is most likely a Ben con. (Like the Pacemaker Rabbit!)

Anyway, I see three possibilities:

(1) Cooper appears in the magic box b/c Locke wished it.

(2) Cooper somehow came to the Island and got trapped by the Others.

(3) Cooper isn't really Cooper!

Which is more likely? Actually, what makes this a great show is that ANY of these may be likely! (But I'm rooting for #3!)

#14. Posted by: Herobill at March 22, 2007 1:10 PM

@Adam: You might be on to something there with the Smokey connection. *If* Smokey was able to take the form of Eko's brother, Yemi, it happened *after* Smokey read Eko.

Smokey also read Locke, so it's quite possible that Cooper is a similar manifestation. -- mac

#15. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 1:11 PM

Solid all around.

The first thing I noticed, which I will have to confirm, was when we saw Jack at the beginning of the ep frolicking. When he went over to shake Ben's hand, it looked as if there was a large tattoo on his left arm, inside the elbow. I immediately said, CLONE! But the rest of the ep ended up with me thinking I just saw a shadow. But Jack was a little off from the normal doc we know. Any thoughts?

#16. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 1:12 PM

Wonder if the box is the reason why the Others are willing to die without putting up a fight. Maybe someone can bring them back!?!
The producers have said that Jack's dad is dead but what if Jack brings him back? Didn't they also say that since someone is dead, they are not gone? We assume they'll appear in flashbacks but maybe they can be brought back.
Maybe not...just wondering.
Great recap! Great show!

#17. Posted by: MrEko237 at March 22, 2007 1:13 PM

@Red...Neck...Man: You definitely saw a tatoo. I checked it a couple times and it's there -- on the underside of his left arm. -- mac

#18. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 1:14 PM

Was Locke the guy falling out the window when Hurley was in the office of his financial manager in season 1????

#19. Posted by: Mary at March 22, 2007 1:14 PM

I don't know how I feel about Cooper being on the Island. It feels too convenient. How are they going to explain it? He just appeared out of a magic box? puh-lease. One thing I have always clung to is the fact that the producers have said that everything is scientifically explainable, but how do you explain a magic box that spits out cast-away's evil parents?
If the explanation of this phenomena is decent, than I will accept it for what it is, an interesting plot twist that helps make the back-stories relavent (Haven't fans been complaining about this for ages as well?). If there is no forthcoming explanation of the magic box, I think I'm going to be a little miffed. They might as well strap some water skis to Ben's wheel chair and have him lasso the Dharma Shark to go for a ride!

That being said! I thought the rest of the episode was pretty fantastic (and the Cooper revalation could be as well, it all depends on how they explain the box!). I was glad Sayid made the first step in connecting Rousseau and Alex, I liked the exchanges between Locke and Ben, I liked that they showed Richard Alpert being on the island.
I thought the exchange between Jack and Kate was odd, they never just say what they mean, you know?
I did like that he said that he was going to come back for her though, that was sweet.
But now what? Ben doesn't have to let Sayid and Kate go, becuase he only promised he would when Jack got off the island. Where does this leave Jack now? Will he be a prisoner as well, or will he be "one of them"?

Why did Jack say that the children and the others who were taken were "Safe"? What does that even mean? That was the same thing Goodwin had said. Is he just not "allowed" to reveal what is going on, and since he knows they are being reconded, trying not to get himself in trouble by revealing too much info?

I don't know, folks, but I am itching for next week's episode!

#20. Posted by: sarah c at March 22, 2007 1:15 PM

I think the "Magic Box" was just a metaphor for the Submarine, I beleive that Cooper was bought to the island when Ben realized that Cooper (Lockes dad) was Sawyer (the man Sawyer has been tracking.)

#21. Posted by: sky at March 22, 2007 1:15 PM

What a fun episode this was....there was a lot to digest on this one. Yeah, the whole Jack and Kate dynamic was a little strange and I'm not sure where that is leading.

Ben; don't you just hate the guy? I sure do. And poor Locke....after yet another sabotage stunt, he's either going to get his @ss kicked very soon by one of the Losties or have to redeem himself somehow in a major way. But first, he obviously has to deal with Dad.

Another aspect I liked of this episode was that we finally get to see the Losties getting under the others' skins. Notably, some of Locke's comments to Ben and Sayid's exchange with Alex. Oh yes...the tables are turning.

Mac, as always..thanks...you get better with each one!

#22. Posted by: petew at March 22, 2007 1:17 PM

@mac - Does it mean anything? Does Matthew Fox have a real tattoo there and it's just bad camera work? Was he branded? Also, usually you can see his shoulder tattoo peaking out under his t-shirt. Didn't see that either. That bothered me all episode.

#23. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 1:19 PM

I personally think Rousseau knew Ben was the leader of the others when she captured him in her net, and that she need the castaways to help her track down her daughter since she could not do it herself for whatever reason.

#24. Posted by: Joe at March 22, 2007 1:22 PM

Another great exchange in this episode:

Locke: "Was that some code?"

Ben: "No John, we don't have a code for a man is holding my daughter in the closet with a gun to her head. But maybe we should." (not verbatim, sorry)

I agree Mac, the hamster comment was hysterical. More likley two polar bears. :)


#25. Posted by: The Duf at March 22, 2007 1:24 PM

Anybody else read flan o'briens "the third policeman"? It was one of the books desmond grabbed when fleeing the hatch. There could be a catch to this magic box.

#26. Posted by: robot by the river at March 22, 2007 1:25 PM

I had a problem with the lack of reaction from Alex when Syid tells her about her mom. No disbelief, no look of hope, nothing, and no questions for dear old dad. La la la, let me just lead big bad Locke straight to the sub and stroll back home.

#27. Posted by: ej at March 22, 2007 1:30 PM

Great review Mac…thanks again for your humor and insight. I really felt like Ben was channeling your mojo when he made the comment to Locke about Bensylvania being powered by two giant hamsters!

Speaking of mojo, Lost certainly does have it back!!! Awesome episode. Terry O’Quinn and Michael Emerson (Locke and Ben) both deserve Emmys for their performances. Simply stellar acting.

I’m totally eating crow about Locke. I’ve said previously that though he wants to stay on the island he would never sabotage his fellow Losties’ chances to leave. I was WRONG! Knowing that Jack was about to leave on the sub he still had no problem blowing it up. So maybe he really did purposely turn the Flame into the Cinder! And now it’s ironic that he’s stuck on the island with his own daddy dearest! Can’t wait to see how that plays out. Jack is going to want to kill Locke now...should be some great and very tense scenes in the future.

I really do want a plausible explanation for how Locke's father got on the island. Whether it means an explanation of the magic box or some other way we need to know soon.

I also can’t wait for next week’s Nikki-Paolo-centric episode. You know, the one that makes them become our favorite Lost characters!

#28. Posted by: JoePike at March 22, 2007 1:31 PM

I don't think that it was necessarily Locke's father in the box. Earlier in the episode, Ben stated that you can see anything you imagine in the box. I believe that's why Ben made Locke talk about his dad immediately before opening the door. Just a possibility....

#29. Posted by: Carl at March 22, 2007 1:32 PM

ej,

Maybe Alex knows that if she brings up "mommy" now, Sayid could get beatin' badly. It may take some time for it to sink in. If someone you loved always told you one thing and a stranger says another, I could see ignoring it at first. I bet it will bother her until she asks him.

#30. Posted by: MrEko237 at March 22, 2007 1:36 PM

Mac,

Great review! If I didn't know better, I could've sworn that you consulted in the writing of this episode. Seriously, between the plot line and the witty conversations, I could've sworrn it had your finger prints all over it.

I don't think Cooper is the man from Tallahassee. That's too obvious for Lost standards. Wouldn't be suprised if it turns out to be the yet unknown Jake or might have something to do with Sawyer. Remember Sawyers comment, "I spent some time in Tallahassee and lets just say the sun wasn't the only thing burning."

As far as the birth right thing goes, it would make sense as to why Alex hasn't been branded, vanished, or killed yet. She was born on the island but despite all the times she has refused or violated orders, she seems to be left alone and continues to be trusted. Definately think it has something to do with being born on the island.

#31. Posted by: Sam at March 22, 2007 1:37 PM

Does anyone know why Locke was dripping wet when the sub blew up? He wouldn't have to get out of the sub to plant the C4...

#32. Posted by: Ryan at March 22, 2007 1:38 PM

ej,

Maybe Alex knows that if she brings up "mommy" now, Sayid could get beatin' badly. It may take some time for it to sink in. If someone you loved always told you one thing and a stranger says another, I could see ignoring it at first. I bet it will bother her until she asks him.

#33. Posted by: MrEko237 at March 22, 2007 1:38 PM

MAC - Awesome recap. Much like the show your recaps are in top form again.

One point you left out - probably on purpose - was when Jack and Juliet went to see Ben for the "one last favor". Ben made it perfectly clear that yes he would release Jack's friends - as soon as he left the island. This scene only confirms how evil Ben can be, and how good he is at being evil. He already knew that Locke was gonna make the sub go boom. Now he doesn't have to release John, Sayid, or Kate and he won't be breaking his word to Jack. Technically if Jack is still on the island then he doesn't have to release anyone.

Then there is the scene where Alex tries to warn Locke that he's playing right into Ben's hands. That Ben manipulates people, "That's what he does, he gets you to think it was your idea from the start". Smart girl, but John being John couldn't hear anything past his immediate desire.

Oh well.

#34. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 1:38 PM

You know, how old do you think Ben really is. Is it possible that being a "product" of the island, assuming that he is the result of a Dharma project, makes his physically developmental age accellerated. No even sure that matters but his mannerisms are sometimes childlike.

I guess we have to assume that Lockes dad was brought to the island before the anomoly. It seems that we have only touched the surface of Lockes importance to the others not to mention the "Big Cheese" we haven't met yet.

Very Interesting.

#35. Posted by: SF at March 22, 2007 1:40 PM

Awesome. I could see stuff coming from a mile away ("don't go near the window, Locke!") but still, great episode. Leave it to Locke to get this show back on track.

My only question is, why did Jack suddenly turn into a sell-out bee-atch?

#36. Posted by: Rob at March 22, 2007 1:41 PM

does anyone know what time in Locke's life it was when he was on the mj farm??

#37. Posted by: nina at March 22, 2007 1:46 PM

@Mac - loved the "supple young boar" comments - LOL

Since this is an ABC show and ABC is owned by Disney, do you think the sub was an old sub from the now defunct 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride? ;oD

When is Randolph Mantooth gonna show up to save his old partner from "Emergency!"? :D

#38. Posted by: Connie at March 22, 2007 1:46 PM

I believe when they showed Locke soaking wet, it was after the sub exploded. I'm sure when that happened it caused quite a splash.

#39. Posted by: bt at March 22, 2007 1:49 PM

@Adam

I was thinking that too, the magic box has to be smokey, its the most logical of all... if logical can be said about LOST.

Smokey is the box and it can transform into anything.. sidenote: remeber the backwards talking Walt in season two? maybe that was Smokey.

Its due time that Smokey makes another appearance, in its normal form

#40. Posted by: sierramark at March 22, 2007 1:49 PM

Ben knows that the Losties have been to the communications HQ, and that they met Mikhail. Yet Ben does not ask about Mikhail or Ms. Klugh. Does he fear the worst? Ben never asks how they got into the compound... wouldn't he be curious? They are all walking around just fine, brains intact and all.

I like Carl's comment about how Cooper was the last thing Locke was thinking about when he looked in the room, and there's Cooper. If Locke had been thinking about Donuts, would the room have been full of donuts?

I also like the idea that what we saw as Cooper is really Smokey taking a new form. But following that train of thought, so far we've only seen Smokey take the form of people who were dead on the island (Yemi and Christian), so could that mean that Cooper really had been on the island at some point, but is now dead?

Is the Room we saw, the "Box" that Ben was talking about, or is the Box somehwere else, and the room is just where they are keeping what popped out of it?

#41. Posted by: sarah c at March 22, 2007 1:50 PM

@Adam

I was thinking that too, the magic box has to be smokey, its the most logical of all... if logical can be said about LOST.

Smokey is the box and it can transform into anything.. sidenote: remeber the backwards talking Walt in season two? maybe that was Smokey.

Its due time that Smokey makes another appearance, in its normal form

#42. Posted by: sierramark at March 22, 2007 1:50 PM

@ Mary--Locke falling out the window past Hurley is just pricesless. I never put that together. Need to watch that epi again and see if it is Locke.

The magic box is interesting, but we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. I knew Locke wanted to blow up the sub the moment he told Ben he was not 'here for Jack.'

GRAA, mac. Keep up the good work. The hamster line was almost as good as "That's a helluva Jesus." I do want to know how the EMP did not cripple the sub, power generation, etc. I only knocked out communication. hmmm...

#43. Posted by: onelostdude at March 22, 2007 1:50 PM

I forgot to mention this in the review, but Locke's swan dive was on par with the classic "Helen-Hunt-Drug-Freak-Out" from "Desperate Lives." -- mac

#44. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 1:52 PM

@bt:

Locke was wet before the sub exploded. For some reason he swam off the sub instead of walking the pier. It's possible that he placed the C4 on the outside of the submarine, close to where he thought the fuel tank would be.

#45. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 1:55 PM

Here's my take on the "magic box".

The magic box is the smoke monster, and the Others's don't control it. It's a part of the island that they discovered, and sometimes it's useful to them, but ultimately they can't make it do whatever they want it to do.

It can appear as anything the viewer imagines/desires.(?)fears...

o Kate's horse
o Sawyer's boar
o Jack's dad
o Hurley's friend
o Claire's Walt
o Eko's brother
o Desmond's visions?
o the whispers?
o whatever makes the island invisible
to the rest of the world?
o LOCKE'S DAD

OK, if so, then almost all the puzzles of the island reduce to "What the heck is the Smoke Monster?"

The writers have said that no magic, supernatural, religious, or alien/UFO explanations are involved.

However, remember Clarke's Third Law:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

-------------------------------------

A few more questions:

Why was it necesary to use a submarine, rather than a surface vessel to reach the island? (Maybe because there's something you're not supposed to see as you approach it.)

Why was/is a beacon necesary for the sub to find the island? Normal submarines are quite capable of navigating without them.

If so, how was the island discovered in the first place, before the beacon was placed there?

As to why Ben doesn't want anybody to leave, and Locke also seems to want to prevent anyone from leaving, maybe they both realize that if the outside world ever discovers the island, everything that is special about it will be ruined - maybe the island is fragile in some sense we don't yet understand.

Welcome back Locke the mystic!


-------------------------------------

Other extraneous issues.

I don't think Locke was the person falling past the window when Hurly was at his accountant's office. Locke's dad was in a residential building or
hotel, which don't often mix with office space, plus the times don't seem to work out.

If, like my wife, you said "That's why I don't like being in high-rises with glass sides", let me assure you that in the real world, Locke's back might have been broken hitting the window, but not the ground. That structural glass is incredibly tough.


Good Luck, and Namaste!

#46. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 22, 2007 1:59 PM

You skipped over what was a poignant moment in the episode - Locke's physical therapist comes into his room and wants to put Locke in his wheelchair, but Locke says he can't. The therapist says "John, you fell 8 stories and survived. I don't want to hear about what you can't do". When Locke goes to the wheelchair, I think he's crying because of his brush-with-death revelation. And this is also, presumably, the origin of Locke's "Don't tell me what I can't do!" motif.

#47. Posted by: Phil at March 22, 2007 2:08 PM

Mac, what an excitement it is when your review pops up the day after LOST!

@ Mary -- Wow! Locke falling during Hurley's flashback??!! Cool.

Last night ...

Did I hear Locke's dialogue incorrectly? I thought, when he was talking to Ben about the C4, that he said something like, "you put the C4 in my pack for Sayid to discover." Am I on crack? Or did he not say something like that?

I love the Alex set-up with Sayid's few but well-chosen words. Alex reacted the way she did because it probably never entered her head to believe that her mother was *not* dead.

"The Man from Tallahassee" (TMFT) ... hmmm. I'm going to keep it simple and assume the easiest answer: When Ben said to bring "TMFT", he meant Cooper (Locke's dad). That's why, at the end of the episode, Cooper was perfectly placed inside the room for the reveal.

As to why they would call Cooper "TMFT" ... I don't get it. I probably believe what I've read on other boards that Sawyer/Kate/Cooper probably have a flashback in common that we have not seen yet.

Now, as for the whole "magic box" concept....

(1) Why are you people believing what Ben is saying ???!!

(2) I don't think Cooper literally sprung from the box. Nor do I think the room that he is in is the box.

(3) Other than that ... I really don't know. But I am VERY CURIOUS to see where they're going with this!

Kate and Jack's scene touched me immensely. I guess I didn't pay that much attention to the dialogue, LOL. I wish we had a TRANSCRIPT of it. To me, the gist of the scene was that Kate sort-of asked Jack about the whole Sawyer sex thing, but Jack was obtuse with his answer.

Again, I am going to assume that there's some other strategic things going on with Jack. Although ... it was pretty clear in the 6-episode arc that Jack adamantly asserted that he wanted off the island *after* he saw Sawyer and Kate in their post-sex position.

Could Jack's motivation to get off the island now simply be jealousy and disappointment that Kate hooked up with Sawyer ????

Finally, [please don't hate me for this one] I cringe when anyone mentions "clones". I really don't think that's what's going on. And I don't think that's the way the writers are going with this show. Plus, it's too easy of a plot-device. I think the writers are smarter than that.

Oh yeah ... Terry O'Quinn was brilliant in this episode. Emmy, anyone??

#48. Posted by: Matt at March 22, 2007 2:09 PM

Don't take the box idea too literally. If they had a real box that produced anything they wished for, why would they be eating Dharma brand imitation Frosted Flakes (with twice the fiber and half the sugar)? Who would be wishing for Dharma Frosted Flakes? Tom?

#49. Posted by: jiggy at March 22, 2007 2:09 PM

re: Jack's Tatoo

He's always had a tatoo on the inside of his left arm, all the way back to season one.

re: The Magic Box

I don't think Ben's Talking about a box litereally, but the island figuratively. Ben wished for a spine surgeon and one fell out the sky.

Cooper falling off the grid after going to Mexico could just mean he finally got conned himself and ended up on Dharma World with a much better conman in charge.

#50. Posted by: Josh at March 22, 2007 2:10 PM

I am liking what I am reading (as well as what I was watching last night...) here in LOSTland....the smoke monster as Locke's dad (and Eko's brother, and Jack's dad, and Hurley's friend, and Kate's horse (well, maybe...)...). I think that is one darn good theory...As is the clone of Jack theory...

Who is Benry really playing in all of this? In one breath, he goes from telling Locke that the sub is an "illusion," there to make his people believe they can leave at any time to explaining he made a deal to allow Jack to go home using said sub...so which is the lie? The one to Locke or the one to Jack? Both? Neither? I guess it doesn't matter now, as Benry so politely thanked Locke for helping him with...

I noticed the rum Cooper poured was the same kind Desmond's future father in law was drinking...as were Des and Charlie and Hurley...

I thought Jack's new tattoo looked like a heart with wings...

I do find it hard to believe that Sayid and Kate and Locke could scamper across the grounds of Losteria Lane unnoticed, but as soon as they went inside somewhere, there were cameras to catch them. Why no such security to watch the outside? Why only the inside? Why weren't there cameras in Ben's room/house? How did no one else know Locke was in there?

WGNABB...that's for sure!

#51. Posted by: Vikki at March 22, 2007 2:10 PM

You would want to place the explosives on the outside hull of the sub. You get much more bang for the buck, that way, because the water tamps the explosive force and concentrates it toward the sub.

For the same reason, the RAF's 699 squadron in WW II developed techniques to skip-drop bombs that would then sink in the water on the upstream side of the Ruhr dams. The explosives broke the dams open, whereas the same amount of explosive on the air side of the dam would have just scratched the concrete.

#52. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 22, 2007 2:11 PM

@Jiggy

Although completely irrelevant, that was an excellent & thought out post. Touche.

#53. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at March 22, 2007 2:14 PM

@Red...Neck...Man - Matthew has a lot of tattoos that have to be covered for the show. I'm assuming that they didn't know that one would be visible for the scene and didn't take the tons of time to cover it.

Knowing Lost fans and the show's usual attention to detail, I'm a little surprised by that.

#54. Posted by: HyperJen at March 22, 2007 2:14 PM

Excellent point Sky on the possible Cooper/Sawyer connection!

#55. Posted by: gables79 at March 22, 2007 2:16 PM

What happens to Locke's ability walk if he kills Cooper?

Will the Island punish him the way that it punished Eko?

#56. Posted by: dave at March 22, 2007 2:17 PM

Now *this* is the show that I thought this show was going to be before it quit being the show it was!

I don't see the profit in straining for workarounds to Ben's 'magic box' monologue. Ben's modus operandi is to allways tell the truth. It's just that his manner of truthiness is often 'misunderstood', likely as Alex tells/warns us, because he deliberately intends it so.

The magic box talk is just metaphor for a phenomenon that Locke has already discovered: if you want something bad enough, and you focus on that desire, the Island will provide. Locke demonstrated/taught that secret to Charlie when Charlie 'found' his guitar. The hint/foreshadowing of this phenomenon has been with us from episode 2, when it appeared a polar bear had been conjured from Walt's imagination. Be careful what you wish for little lostie, or the Island will surely provide it.

Let's run with this as a true proposition for a moment. The Man From Tallahassee (TMFT) showed up to *Ben*, not Locke, and he arrived at the Barracks before Locke did. I seriously doubt that TMFT is *Locke's* wish fulfillment. It logically follows that it's *Ben's* wish fulfillment, just as a surgeon 'falling from the sky' represented wish/need fulfillment to Ben. Ben realizes that TMFT isn't here because he's what Locke needs/wants, but because he's what Ben needs/wants. That's not what he's going to lead Locke to believe though.

Interestingly, though, it appears that Ben genuinely has no clue how he's supposed to leverage this gift from the Island into what he really wants. But the apparent implication is that what Ben needs/wants is, ultimately, something Locke needs to provide. This power that Locke holds over Ben is underscored by the repeated observation about who is in a wheelchair and who is not.

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

This show has picked up some ferocious momentum the last couple of weeks. Good times. Good times.

#57. Posted by: Deep Cover at March 22, 2007 2:19 PM

This might be nothing, but in the scene where Locke is talking to Peter Talbott you can hear a car alarm going off outside. Maybe that was just to imply that Locke was living in a bad area, but could it have been a reference to something that happened in another back story? Maybe not, but it seemed kinda prominent to me.

#58. Posted by: mturczyn at March 22, 2007 2:22 PM

Ben must have found Locke's dad and brought him to the island after he escaped from the hatch. He had wanted to meet Locke ("I came for you") because he wanted to check out Locke's connection with the island even way back then. Since then it's only been a matter of waiting until after his back was operated on to finish his business with Locke. It would be a real loss of power if Locke proved to have a better connection with the island than Born-on-the-island Ben and Ben knows this. The reference to the "magic box" was only a metaphor Ben used to pique Locke's interest and keep him manipulatable and in Ben's game. Ben is one smart and evil cookie. Ben will keep Locke's dad hanging over Locke's head to get what he wants even though Locke's island connection gives him the upper hand (although he may not know this)
Since I have always believed there are 3 groups on the island (losties, dharma leftovers and hostiles) here is my theory about the smoke monster/island connection: This "island connection" is probably what gave the dirty caveman-like hostiles the upper hand over the original high-tech Dharma people and why they won against them and forced them to live in a fenced in part of the island. When the Dharma drones went out of their "safe area" and met up with the Losties they dressed as hostiles so the Losties would blame the hostiles for the kidnappings and killings and such. But I do wonder if the hostiles carry some diseasee that threatens Ben's group as all the hatches had quaratine signs on them. Since they innoculated Claire's baby with something (in uteero) maybe this disease kills young chidren and makes women infertile? Or the disease (experiment gone awry) turns you into a hostile and that's where they came from
Any thoughts?

#59. Posted by: lost addict at March 22, 2007 2:28 PM

@DC: two things:

1. Nice use of "truthiness" Stephen Colbert would be proud ;)

2. You're right about the momentum. The last three episodes have really kicked it into gear.

#60. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 2:30 PM

I caought the following refrences to the numbers in this fantastic episode...

- Locke fell EIGHT floors.

- There were FOUR stones (or something!) lined up on top of the piano that Jack was playing

Again, for the record, I think there is a serious DADDY ISSUES theme going on here. Think about it...every character we know about has 'em:

Locke (his tried to murder him after stealing an organ!)

Sawyer (his was a conman who killed his mom)

Jack (his was a cad, a drunk and an overbearing jerk)

Claire (hers was nonexistent in her life and then pops in and tries to get her to pull the plug on her mother)

Kate (hers was a drunk and leach who abused her mother)

Walt (his was uninvolved, althoguh this was not on purpose, per se. Still they did not have a relationship until the crash)

Shannon (hers died and left her evil step-monster in charge; no one to take care of poor Shannon)

Hurley (his left him one day and only came back when he learned his son was a millionaire)

Sun (hers is a controlling underworld typrant who does bad things to people)

That leaves us with:

Sayid
Charlie (can anyone weigh in on daddy issues here?)
Jin (any issues with his fisherman dad?)

#61. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 2:36 PM

In the first episode of Season 3, we see Otherville for the first time. I might be wrong, but when the camera zoomed out, wasn't their camp in the middle of the jungle, surrounded by trees? If that's the case, how do they have a submarine (and a dock) within walking distance? Those two scenes don't match up. Leads me to believe the writers either don't do their homework or hope we don't catch things... Just a thought.

#62. Posted by: Charles at March 22, 2007 2:37 PM

The others dont need the submarine to
come and go, they have the bigger boat
available unless Locke finds it. Jack
also knows about this boat as he was ferried w/the others from the work island not long ago. Makes you wonder how far Mike and Walt got in the Others smaller boat last season and where they wound up. I also dont believe Ben is stuck in his wheelchair, he's a bug-eyed lying lier that lies.

#63. Posted by: cosmik debris at March 22, 2007 2:43 PM

@ Mary, Locke falling from the sky: Great theory, but it was not him. I had to think about this for a while. I do like the theory though. Hurley had only been a multi-millionaire for a short time (months?) when he came to the island. Locke was in the wheelchair for four years. The timelines don't match up. Great theory, but, this myth is BUSTED!

#64. Posted by: onelostdude at March 22, 2007 2:46 PM

@Vikki:

I though the same thing about why no security to watch the perimeter. But it kind of makes sense.If you had a "Sonic Death Fence", would you really think it necessary to put up cameras as well. Also, no camera in Ben's room because he's the leader and there's no need to monitor him, security wise. The camera in Jack's house was to keep an eye on him. He was still a prisoner, just on a longer invisible leash.

That's just my take on it though.

#65. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 2:46 PM

@MrG: Since there are cameras in the rec room (and a lot of other places), I'd say that everyone is a prisoner, to a greater or lesser degree. I continue to think that the idea that the sonic death fence is primarily for keeping people *in*, not out, is going to be proved correct.

#66. Posted by: Deep Cover at March 22, 2007 2:50 PM

The Daddy issues thing has shown up so many times, but regarding Gator Gal's Post, Jin denied his father, told Mr. Paik he was dead. He was deeply ashamed of him. As far as I remember, we never met Sayid's Dad, but when Kelvin showed Sayid a video of the Republican Guard destroying a small town, didn't he say Sayid had family there? Did Sayid's army kill his father? (and does Sayif feel some responsibility for that? This is a stretch, I know : ) Regarding Charlie, we only met his Dad in a dream/flashback, he was a butcher, we never saw his face, but he was slicing the heads off dolls (serious Daddy issues, if you ask me) and the gist I got from other Charlie Flashbacks was that the Father wanted Charlie and Liam to become butchers as well, and not waste their time on music. Also, Sawyer's Dad was NOT a conman, he was Conned by the original Sawyer (Cooper?) and killed himself and his wife because of it.
Just wanted to add my two cents!

#67. Posted by: sarah c at March 22, 2007 2:55 PM

TYVM, Mac :-) Don't you think Ben and Colbert have a lot in common, when you think about it? Fanatical devotion to a cause, a willingness to elevate 'truth' above facts, an obsessive fear and loathing of bears . . . it's all there.

#68. Posted by: Deep Cover at March 22, 2007 2:55 PM

João Mealha from Portugal here.

Just wanted to say this is THE BEST place to go after watching a new Lost episode.

I love Lost and I love your work Mac!

#69. Posted by: JoaoMealha at March 22, 2007 2:57 PM

I'm glad to see that someone else picked up on the conman reference that Cooper made. Seriously - how many conmen can one show have? I think that Cooper is the one to blame for Sawyer's dear old daddy killing himself and his wife when Sawyer was killed. Further wish fulfillment anyone?

#70. Posted by: irish76 at March 22, 2007 2:59 PM

@Gatorgal:

Good catch on the characters having Daddy issues. One misstep though - Sawyers dad wasn't a conman, his wife was conned by a conman and their life savings were gone. That's why Sawyer's dad lost it killed her before killing himself.

But dead on on them all having Daddy issues. Locke's got the mother of all daddy issues.

#71. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 3:00 PM

@mturczyn -- yes, I remember hearing the car alarm during that scene and thinking, "What a strange sound cue. Could they be planting something for later?"

@Deep Cover -- All good points, for sure.

ONe more small detail from last night: During the Locke flashback I noticed the television news was playing a story. Again, I thought "What an interesting sound cue". I looked it up on Lostpedia and they said the news story was about "a Bolivian gold deposit" being stolen the evening before.

Finally, I watched the Locke/Ben scene (after Locke eats chicken) again. I noticed the decor of Ben's apartment: Lots of masks. They don't look African to me. But definitely primitive. I think I saw a Buddha statue on Ben's table. Also ... the shot of Ben with the clock and the photos of young Alex was interesting. I can't help but wonder why they composed the shot like that and what it meant. Ben looked away from Locke to that wall before turning back to Locke. I guess it's interesting that Ben has all those photos of little Alex.

#72. Posted by: Matt at March 22, 2007 3:05 PM

Arrggh - this is what I get for not checking my posts before setting them up! LOL! Sawyer wasn't killed (obviously!!) I meant when he was a kid. Gonna go get myself some more coffee, I think!

#73. Posted by: irish76 at March 22, 2007 3:06 PM

Charles - the sub can probably be reached by an underground tunnel.

#74. Posted by: myloststory at March 22, 2007 3:07 PM

@ DeepCover:

You might be right about the SDF (Sonic Death Fence) being used to keep people in instead of out, but the result is the same. The bars and high walls in a prison are to keep the prisoners in but it also keeps people out.

#75. Posted by: Mr. Grimm at March 22, 2007 3:12 PM

@DC: All Ben needs is Ben Jr. flying around ... come to think of it, maybe the Hurley bird is Ben, Jr ... hmmm

#76. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 3:18 PM

@ GatorGal: Go 'Noles! ;) (Although you do have our old coach now, so I can't hate you *too* much.)

@ Mary: I don't think it could've been Locke falling past the window in front of Hurley because he'd been in a wheelchair 4 years before coming to the island and Hurley only won the lottery a year or so ago (if I have deduced correctly his "about a year ago" reference in a S1 ep.)

#77. Posted by: Trinity at March 22, 2007 3:21 PM

I don't know if anyone else thought it was interesting when Ben told Locke (re: the leftover chicken) "Sorry, I ate most of the dark meat." I guess I always thought of Ben as a white meat kinda guy.

#78. Posted by: Trinity at March 22, 2007 3:23 PM

Can someone answer this...Is Cooper really Locke's dad, or did he pose as Locke's dad to get a kidney? Maybe he conned Locke's mom too? I dunno! All these Daddy Issues are too much to keep up with!!

#79. Posted by: keluha at March 22, 2007 3:26 PM

@mac - "If Ben had a handlebar mustache, he'd be twirling it."

Thanks for the best...mental...picture...ever!

You're recaps are brilliant and down right hillarious.

This episode? AWESOME. Literally jumped off the couch at the end. Can't wait to get home and watch it again. Why, oh why did they move it to 10:00? I'm usually too drunk to remember any of it when I stay up that late.

Cheers!

#80. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 22, 2007 3:30 PM

The Locke Ness Monster really showed up last night.
If Locke's desire is to stay on the island because this is the only place where people around him respect/admire/like him, then his actions are doing the opposite--- destroying a means of escape will alienate him with the plane crash survivors.
I knew that Locke's injury would be caused by his father's con, just not in the manner shown last night. But it did give us a possible link (via the family brand of whiskey) that the rich Talbott Cooper was to con is related to the Widmores and Penny. We assumed that Penny was looking for Desmond - - - what if she was really looking for the man who conned her mother?

#81. Posted by: welh at March 22, 2007 3:35 PM

@ mac "Man of Rage, Man of Boom" HA!

"Oddly, Tom seems to be helping Jack"

Remember Juliet's flash card message in the fish tank? She said that, "Some of us want change?" I don't think she was talking quarters and dimes. There seems to be a faction of the Others that do not agree with what is going on there but do not dare oppose Ben. We get a glimpse of this from Ben's conversation with John where he talks about the illusion of Others being able to leave the island when they want and how it is important to his maintaining leadership. Tom is probably one of these that are kinda stuck between the two groups. Helpful yet faithful.

#82. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 22, 2007 3:44 PM

ok ok....got a question from the very first episode that still hasnt been answered....how did everyone surivive the plane crash?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! id imagine they fell pretty freaking far up there. is it the healing powers of the island or something? were they dead and now they ve come back to life somehow?!?!? other than that nice blog mac, gotta looooooooooove LOST

#83. Posted by: Ross at March 22, 2007 3:45 PM

@gables79 "...you have to love actor who plays Ben. Great work dude."

Agreed! Michael Emerson does a supurb job playing the role of Ben. I've not seen any of his other work (no pun intended) but am now wanting to.

#84. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 22, 2007 3:46 PM

@Red...Neck...Man "When he (Jack) went over to shake Ben's hand, it looked as if there was a large tattoo on his left arm, inside the elbow."

Jack has always had that tat. The most noticeable time that comes to mind was when he was in the Hydra hanging from the chains.

#85. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 22, 2007 3:47 PM

@Ross: dude, come on. you kidding me?

Here's a question...What is air?

#86. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 3:49 PM

Can someone answer this...Is Cooper really Locke's dad, or did he pose as Locke's dad to get a kidney? Maybe he conned Locke's mom too? I dunno! All these Daddy Issues are too much to keep up with!!

→ Posted by: keluha at March 22, 2007 03:26 PM

I believed Cooper is John's Dad. He would need a tissue match to get a Kidney from him. Typically a blood relative is your best match. He probably knew that John’s mother had his child, found her when he knew he needed a kidney, and then worked the con on John.

Otherwise he would have had to go through medical record to find a match, then find that person, then con them.

#87. Posted by: michael at March 22, 2007 3:51 PM

@lost addict re: three groups on the island theory

That's the same theory I've been working off of for a while in my state of "What-the-heck-is-going-on-here-edness?" I think you're right on with it.

#88. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 22, 2007 3:52 PM

I took the comment about the 'magic box' as a metaphor. Didn't Ben say, "Imagine, if you will, a magic box and when you open that box whatever your heart desires..." or something along those lines? I don't believe the room is the box or the box is elsewhere. I think the island is the box.

#89. Posted by: Jennifer at March 22, 2007 3:52 PM

Observations:

re: Sayid's conversation with Alex

It's refreshing to see that Ben is not the only one that can play mind games. Sayid had just a fleeting chance to interact with Alex and in doing so made the most of it. Alex will be wondering about his comments for a long time. Alex certainly now has stock in wanting to see Sayid freed - or at least keeping him alive. Smart move Sayid. It will interesting to see where this leads.

re: Locke

Locke in his attempt to keep daddy away has now locked himself in the cage with him. Reminds me of the old Three Stooges short where they were attempting to lock the door to keep out the monster that is standing in the room right behind them. Instead of locking his fear out, by blowing up the sub, he has now locked himself in the room with it!

#90. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 22, 2007 3:58 PM

Dugg!

http://digg.com/television/Lost_Recap_Locke_s_Backbreaker_is_Revealed

If you haven't Dugg it, do so. And if you haven't signed up for Digg, do it and Digg it. We need great content like this on the Web and must spread the gospel of Mac's "Lost" blog!

#91. Posted by: Rob at March 22, 2007 4:07 PM

Did anyone else feel that Locke's actions in this episode (and the last few) were incredibly selfish. I mean serioiusly, he blows up a sub after he knows jack is about to escape off of it. If he really doesn't want to leave the island, why does he have to stop others from leaving as well? He travels all the way over to Losteria Lane to blow up a means of escape that otherwise would not come to bare effect on him if he just stayed on lostie beach.
Seems incredibly selfish and although I love Locke and his character this gap in intentions makes me angry. Damn you Locke if you really want to stay so bad then let the other losties go and sit on the beach chatting with Rose and Smokey!

#92. Posted by: Matt S at March 22, 2007 4:07 PM

Dugg!

http://tinyurl.com/ys255r

If you haven't Dugg it, do so. And if you haven't signed up for Digg, do it and Digg it. We need great content like this on the Web and must spread the gospel of Mac's "Lost" blog!

#93. Posted by: Rob at March 22, 2007 4:10 PM

Love your review!

I also don't believe the "box" is anything other than a closet. It has been referenced a few times that Locke was Other "List" worthy, so I am thinking they brought the dad to the island to somehow recruit Locke to their side. I'm not sure how they would use him, but to me that is most logical right now.

Ben got Locke talking about his father to make it seem like Locke made him appear in that closet. I think the "magic box" is somewhere else on the island.

#94. Posted by: Michelle at March 22, 2007 4:11 PM

could Ben have brought Cooper to the island because he probably shares the same DNA makeup as Locke and Ben wanted to study cooper so he could learn why Locke can heal his paralysis and Ben Can't? Ben did state again " that's why I'm in a wheelchair and you're not" right b4 he showed Locke Copper was behind the door.

I also think cooper was there way befor

#95. Posted by: Art at March 22, 2007 4:11 PM

@bcre8ve - The only other place I can remember seeing Michael Emerson is in the movie 'Saw'. Very solid. I'm sure you could check out imbd.com and get all his credits.

#96. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 4:18 PM

I agree with some of the other posters that the "magic box" is simply a metaphor for the island. I also noticed that Cooper poured two glasses of MacCutcheon's right before he tried to kill Locke.

Locke definitely wins the prize for Daddy issues--no one else comes close! And I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Locke's dad is the real Sawyer.

#97. Posted by: copwife at March 22, 2007 4:22 PM

I see a lot of comments regarding "Daddy issues" and I fully agree that pretty much everyone on the island's got 'em. My question is...what's the relevance?

Seems like pretty much everybody I know - let alone the Losties - has issues with one or both of their parental units, so maybe this is just fodder (shameless plug) for the writers and producers to throw out there so we skip over the truly salient bits.

BTW - I think the "magic box" is Locke's mind...subconsciously working in concert with the island's metaphysical capabilities.

Like Yoda told Luke, "All that's in there is what you take with you."

#98. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 22, 2007 4:26 PM

I haven't read all the comments yet, but I had to say this before I forgot. Does anybody else think that Cooper has enlisted help(2 detectives, someone to play Peter Talbot) to further (#^%$%&)"mess with" Locke's mind. A family fortune of 200 mil. you certainly might need a little help fleecing that sheep. What Daddy Coop's motives might be I don't know but maybe Daddy Coop wanted Locke on that island.

#99. Posted by: BigNameJames at March 22, 2007 4:28 PM

LOST is back at full tilt ! Awesome episode ! Still the best show I have ever seen. The acting keeps getting better. This season was slow until these last 3 episodes. It is now back on stride !

When Jack is seen throwing the football at the end of last weeks airing, it looks like he has a large tatoo or injury on the inside of his elbow. Anyone catch/mention that ?

"we're gonna need a bigger boat"

#100. Posted by: thinng at March 22, 2007 4:35 PM

Hey mac just wanna say AWSOME review it had me laughing from start to finish...and the episode last night was also amazing...i just had one thought, could lockes dad have ended up on the island very soon after he tried to kill locke...when locke was still in the hospital the detectives came and said that he had gone to mexico and then left and that he could be anywhere...this could mean that during his escape attempts cooper ended up on the island...possibly he was travelling by boat and ended up on the island like desmond or he could have been on a small plane and crashed...if this is true it means that lockes dad has been on the island for about 4 years...

#101. Posted by: sawyer<3 at March 22, 2007 4:46 PM

@ mac,

Great Review and great episode!

Loved the Monty Python reference!!

#102. Posted by: Castaway at March 22, 2007 4:50 PM

@GatorGal

Just read your post. I'm glad the writers chose Talahassee. UF's got every thing else going for them. Give Florda State a break.

Go 'Noles!!!!!

#103. Posted by: Castaway at March 22, 2007 5:14 PM

@Cecil Rose: There was a real case not long ago where someone in a new high rise wanted to prove how safe the picture windows were. He leaned against it, it popped out, and he splattered. Even though that's not what happened last night, it is not impossible to be defenestrated. (Gosh, I've always wanted to use that word!)

#104. Posted by: hurling at March 22, 2007 5:16 PM

Thursdays are always so blissful with your review Mac. The 1st paragraph of your review shares the same sentiments I have of Ben's Magic Box - freakin' creepy. My fav line: "I'd say I hope that box is big enough to imagine yourself up a new submarine." You can just feel Locke's anger building. Kick his ass, Locke!

It's excellent TV if you're yelling at the top of your lungs "blow that mutha****** up," says my boyfriend. And last night's epi was pure goodness. All I can say is that I'm on the path with John Locke and I hope his slow smackdown on the Others continue.

@ Adam - Initially I was shocked out of my gore when Anthony Cooper became the product of the Magic Box. Then I got to thinking about Smokey (I prefer to call it the "Smoke Monster). Then I thought, why would Smokey get involved with the Others or is Smokey a part of the Others? Or is Smokey giving Locke a gift like Locke did for Boone (helping him get over Shannon)? Then my head blew up.

@ Mac about Ben's timeline of Locke. I was confused too! From what I've seen is that Locke was 1st employed at (I think) Toy R Us (shows his vast knowledge of games - particuarly mouse trap). It's also were he met his Mom & Pop. After his kidney giveaway, he was a house inspector (he met w/ Nadia - Sayid's love interest). Then he hung out at the weed colony for a bit after Helen gave him the boot (I totally think Helen and Anthony Cooper were in the con together). Locke must have went into deep depression after losing the best family he ever had at the weed colony and then re-established a tragic connection with his Dad only to be splatted 8 stories below from his Dad's pimp shack. In season 1, we saw him working at the box company but NEVER saw him walking or in a wheelchair UNTIL he was turned down in epi "Walkabout". When Ben stated that Locke wasted his time at the box factory perhaps he was just saying it was just purely a waste of time. Time that could have been better spent on the island with him...lol Hey, maybe Ben's the gay character? I dunno.

-amelia

#105. Posted by: amelia at March 22, 2007 5:19 PM

Ben can't understand why Locke has a natural connection to the Island.

The Other's society seems to value Island birth.

John's father is on the Island - is he really a prisoner - is this really his first time there?

John was brought up in a foster home - he doesn't know much about his background - when he finally meets his mother, she tells him he is special, part of a design (though that's later said to be a con).

My new theory: Locke is Island born - probably the eldest Island born - and that is why Ben's in a wheelchair while he isn't.

#106. Posted by: Danny at March 22, 2007 5:23 PM

"Why is Locke wet on the pier??"

I don't believe Locke blew up the sub!!! I think he just creates the illusion of an exploding sub (by blowing up the pier). I think he may actually know how to pilot the sub (he makes reference to this possibility earlier in the episode), submerges the sub, gets out of the sub somehow (thus getting wet), and calmly walks down the pier just prior to the explosion. I think Locke just wants Ben to THINK the sub is gone, which is what Ben wants anyway. Eventually (after Locke learns the secrets of the Island/Others), Locke will use the sub for his and the other castaway's escape......what do y'all think???

#107. Posted by: MazGator at March 22, 2007 5:24 PM

Wow, great episode.. I love Locke, he is by far my favorite LOST charachter so I hope all ends up well for him but now his dad is there..oh boy

***On a side note...I find the actor who plays Ben so damn attractive and I don't know why!?> He is a wonderful actor and I hope he has much success in showbiz after LOST ends****

#108. Posted by: Amy at March 22, 2007 5:30 PM

This may have been mentioned so it's not big deal but did you know Ethan is Tom Cruis's cousin?? Funny huh?

#109. Posted by: Amy at March 22, 2007 5:33 PM

@mac@adam

What about this idea: If the smoke monster is the magic box and if the monster is only able to recreate people from existing memories (Yemi, Jack's dad, Hurley's friend, Walt, etc.), then maybe Locke is another recreation, but modified with spinal correction? Ben brought in Cooper to continually smoke monster out Locke from his memory (thus the lack of paralysis). Locke had two purposes: one, to blow up the hatch (for Ben), which caused the end to communications and rescue; two, to blow up the submarine (for Ben), which now eliminates any escape. Locke is now expendable. Ben expects to die on this island, and his plan is to take everyone with him. Jack has merely extended his life here. The whole plane crash was planned as a background for Locke, who isolates the island while making Ben look good.

#110. Posted by: Loz at March 22, 2007 5:39 PM

please...please....please...someone tell me how long cooper has been on the island!?!?!?!?!?!?

#111. Posted by: richie rich at March 22, 2007 6:08 PM

Sorry to be negative, BUT:

petew mentioned that the tables are turning in favor of the Losties. And it seems that everyone is totally ga ga over last nights airing.

What I see is (1) the almighty ex Republican guard, trained in military matters to the nth degree, fails yet again to have an impact or do anything positive to aid the Losties cause, (2) Locke needs to be locked up (pun intended) for the crazy things he has done, and

(3) Although the Losties have had their moments the past few episodes, AT THE END OF THE DAY, they are (once again) in the hands and at the mercy of the Others.

Regardless of all their zany, funny and heroic efforts, Kate, Sayid and Locke are prisoners once more (oops).

However, Rousseau is still on the loose - perhaps she will turn into Lynda Carter and save the day.

No wonder they named it Lost. I think the producers and writers are indeed, lost. It is so boring to watch the Losties do everything wrong - do any of them have an ounce of sense at all?

@vikki I do find it hard to believe that Sayid and Kate and Locke could scamper across the grounds of Losteria Lane unnoticed, but as soon as they went inside somewhere, there were cameras to catch them. Why no such security to watch the outside? Why only the inside? Why weren't there cameras in Ben's room/house? How did no one else know Locke was in there?

Excellent point!

#112. Posted by: ButchM at March 22, 2007 6:17 PM

I don't know if this was mentioned already; forgive me:
Ben and Locke do seem to have some similarities, only one is evil and the other is good. Notice that when Locke is getting chicken from the fridge Ben apologizes for having eaten all the DARK meat (dark=evil) so all that's left for Locke is WHITE meat. Just another repetition of the dark/light, black/white symbolism surrounding Locke. I love it.

#113. Posted by: Claire at March 22, 2007 6:24 PM

I'm trying to grasp what's up with good ol' Coop. He was kidnapped, crashed there, in on it all, he's smokey, he simply forgot to tell Locke he loved him before a little love tap that resulted badly. Could be anything.

What I do like was the simple acting that took place. I tried to gauge the look on Coop's face when he TOO saw John for the first time. Total terror! I originally thought that was part of the act. But seeing your son - STANDING THERE NO LESS - after you took his legs would put a little terror into me as well.

So that's it, I'm done thinking about it. Cause we'll all have the friggin answer in a couple eps anyways, right?

#114. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 6:27 PM

Here's a thought....and man am I smart.

Why haven't Locke or especially Jack asked Ben the most obvious question of all? Why didn't the Others just take ALL of the survivors of Oceanic 815 into their community? It was only like 60 people I think. Why couldn't they take them in...slowly assimilate them to 'what's going on'...if they dig it, they stay...if they don't dig it and resist, throw 'em in bear cages for all to see.

The sinister (ya I said sinister) ways of the Others will be revealed. The emporer has forseeeeeeeeeen it.

#115. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 22, 2007 6:38 PM

Some points of curiosity:

Could the con-man that Sawyer's been looking for and has always eluded him be Cooper?

What kind of vibe would Desmond get in close proximity of Ben and/or his Magic Box?

Here's something that's been bothering me for a while now: What in the world has happened to Rose & Bernard?

#116. Posted by: CA Mileham at March 22, 2007 7:02 PM

@Mary

wow, great theory and it really made me think. Kudos for remembering a small part wayyy back in 1st season.

But, I just rewatched that scene "Numbers", season 1 and it wasn't Locke. In last nights episode Locke fell backwards, face up. The man falling in Hurley's flashback was face down (I could tell by the arch in his back)

Nice idea though.

#117. Posted by: sierramark at March 22, 2007 7:14 PM

Since I'm on an extended concert engagement I haven't seen the past three episodes yet, but just reading your reviews is certainly wetting my appetite! When I get back to town this Sunday, there's definitely going to be a three hour couch-potato event going on in my den!

Just writing to you Mac, to tell you that your spell check let you down in one of the paragraphs . .

>Ben instructs Alpert to uncuff Locke. Since Locke has been so very helpful in keeping Ben perched on his Other THROWN, Ben wants to reward Locke with a little glimpse into the island's Magic Box. <

I think you meant THRONE, as in a King's chair.

Thanks for the reviews.


DRH

#118. Posted by: davidrh at March 22, 2007 7:15 PM

This makes my head hurt!!!!

#119. Posted by: johnny at March 22, 2007 7:17 PM

A lot of people speculated that Locke was a bad guy initially in season one. We've seen before that Locke is willing to resort to extreme measures to carry out his objectives (knocking Sayid unconscience and breaking the radio, sending Boone into the plane, breaking the hatch computer, etc). I don't think Locke is 'evil' but for a long time I've felt that he would emerge as the main antagonist of the Losties (as in he opposes the ultimate goal of most castaways -to be rescued).

My new theory is that as the show progresses the two factions will feature one side, lead by Jack (the man of science), comprised of the bulk of the Oceanic survivers and few Others that switch sides with a common goal of escaping the island. The other side will be lead by Locke (the man of faith) and be made up mainly of Others and few castaways (possiably Rose and Bernard and the tailies/children) who want to remain on the island and keep it hidden.

#120. Posted by: Recluse8747 at March 22, 2007 7:39 PM

@MazGator - that is an excellent reason why Locke is wet! I don't know that he's planning on helping the other Losties escape, after all, I'm sure he blew up Mikhail's place on purpose. But there's no reason to think he doesn't have his own plans for the sub. Couple points:
1- Alex warned him about Ben's manipulation. So even if Locke really wanted to blow up the sub, once he realized that's what Ben wanted him to do, he may have changed his plans just to thwart Ben.
2- We have no reason to think Locke has been trained in how to pilot a sub, but (a) he used to play those war games and may have read instruction manuals, (b) it looked like Juliet was going to pilot it for Jack and herself, so maybe there was some simplified control panel - you know, big stickers with arrows saying "push this to go down, remember to close the hatch."

#121. Posted by: hurling at March 22, 2007 7:46 PM

Jack glares at Locke. The problems these two had in the past don't even compare to the issues they've got now (Man of Rage, Man of Boom).

One word for that mac; Amazing. Your reviews are the highlight of my Thursdays... along w/ Grey's Anatomy but that's besides the point :)

Well, I must say that karma has a way of coming back and kicking you in the a$$; Locke is a prime example. He destroys everyone's chances of ever leaving the island, and BAM! the person who tried to kill him by shoving him out an eight story window shows up on the island you can't leave. All I can say is haha Locke. (I've never been a fan of Locke)

Well, I thought the moment between Jack and Kate was really sweet, and I understood it. Yeah, Kate "chose" Sawyer, but we all know that she loves Jack, but she thinks she can't be with Jack because she can't ever have anything good, and Jack is good. Granted her logic is a little messy but I'm guessing about 10 years (I think its about that long) on the run can do that to yeah. And Jack loves Kate, but he think he can't be with her because she "chose" Sawyer and he doesn't want to mess that up. Really, if he hadn't seen Skate on camera this situation wouldn't be so messed up. So anyways, Jack loves Ktae, and even though he can't have her, he's still gonna be the hero and come back to so he can save her. Of course that plan of action went up in flames (haha literally :])

When I heard Ben say to Jack "Once you leave the island, I'll let your friends go" I went "oh no. That can't be good"

Sorry I wrote so much but I had a lot to say :)

#122. Posted by: lostfugitive at March 22, 2007 7:53 PM

@MazGator

My thoughts exactly. While watching last night I told my daughter that there was no reason for Locke to be wet if he put the C4 in the sub. I also think he moved it and blew up the end of the pier. I do think the reason for this was not because of what Ben said but because after he was told that Jack was leaving, he didn't want to close that door entirely. When he gets a chance, he can tell Jack that he can still leave.

#123. Posted by: SUPDRAGON at March 22, 2007 8:26 PM

"...into a defensive position (Setting No. 108)."

Haha, no one can do that better than you do, mac. Yes, keep 'em coming!

I'm worrying about Sayid, tho. Now that he's held captive, would Ben torture him in revenge?

And the magic box... Is this the answer of all mysterious creatures found in the island? I recall that Walt spend a lot of time reading a comic with a polar bear in its cover, and then it did came out of nowhere. Maybe the box only respond to Locke (and Walt) wishes.

#124. Posted by: vazirani at March 22, 2007 8:27 PM

We all must remember ONE thing: The Lost producers have not closed or made anything "final". So we all talk about these theroies,but they can go in any direction. Is Ben telling the truth? Is that really Lockes dad? Who really knows. The beauty of this show is that we don't know shiiiittttt!!! We think we understand but do we really?? This is all fun but what direction is up and what is down? The sub. Why a sub? Maybe they (on the island) are actual under water. Some sort of under water cave. The need a sub to go under water to go up to the "real world"???? Who really knows. Thats why we all love this show.......danthe man

#125. Posted by: dantheman at March 22, 2007 8:29 PM

Poor GatorGal. Say, do you know what Tallhassee has that Gainesville doesn't?

The National High Magnetics Lab.

It seems a little far reaching, but with all of the other magnetic clues on the island, it could very well be that Tallahassee wasn't just picked for its musical nature (Aerosmith has no songs mentioning Gainesville), but also for its scientific advances.

Oh, and it's not all strip malls and Waffle Houses. That's totally off base.

And Cooper/Seward is totally the Original Sawyer.

#126. Posted by: ShawnL at March 22, 2007 8:35 PM


Totaly think the fence is to keep people inside and the people that are on the outside were either kicked out or dont want back in.

I can't comprehend that the button ment this much to the island and it was not being watched better then by some random ship wrecked people.

Maybe it is all just a head game and some very rich people in the real world are watching them and recording what is going on on the island and the losties are ruining there game only kidding

great review thanks mac

#127. Posted by: Dakota at March 22, 2007 8:50 PM

When Locke tells Ben he wants a "submarine", Ben doesn't realize he means he is hungry and wants a sandwich. Ben is thinking that now they have a pilot. (Why else would the craft be unguarded?) Locke gets chicken instead and the bonus, blowing up the "submarine" and pissing off Jack (again).

#128. Posted by: lostsox at March 22, 2007 8:53 PM

@ Deep Cover: You are my hero! Thanks for putting the whole wish/need fulfillment theory into such an eloquent and understandable post. I TOTALLY agree with you, BTW..so, in response to your "That's my theory and I'm sticking to it" I say, "Me, too!"

Here is a further thought on the wish/need fulfillment. Consider this:

If we accept that the island can manifest things based upon wishes/needs/desires, then those with the most vivid imaginations would be the most powerful, right? And who does this apply to more than CHILDREN! Children believe in everything (Santa Claus, the toothfairy, monsters in the closet, giant spiders on the wall, etc). So, I think this is why the others took the children first. Because their imaginations/wishes/desires/beliefs are more powerful and vivid (and possibly dangerous) than those of adults. This is why they there are safe but probably isolated somewhere in the bowels of Losteria Lane.

#129. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 9:04 PM

@Castaway and Trinity: OK, OK. I apologize for the Tallahassee comment. My bad! Just jealous that Gainesville wasn't chosen to be immortalized on this awesome show instead.

#130. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 9:08 PM

@Deep Cover - I usually stay away from these "magic" theories, but I think you have something here. Especially if @MazGator is right and Locke didn't blow up the sub, this little feud between Locke & Ben will get veeery interesting. If Locke is catching on, he's the only one who can match Ben's wits - and he did get some good zingers in.

#131. Posted by: hurling at March 22, 2007 9:13 PM

Okay, I need someone to explain something for me.

At the beginning of Locke's flashbacks, we see him meeting with someone for a review of his disability benefits. He mentions that he stopped going to therapy because it wasn't doing any good, so the caseworker suspended his benefits, but stressed it was only temporary until Locke resumed the therapy. To which Locke replied, "you think my disability is temporary?", or something of that nature. The whole time I figured Locke was in his wheelchair and this part of his backstory was being shown to us as another way that he was down on his luck, but then, HE WALKS OUT?! I didn't understand that. Why was he receiving disability benefits? What was his disability? Why was this relevant? Anyone?

#132. Posted by: AmyK at March 22, 2007 9:14 PM

As all first posters do - I bow before the great MAC and express my appreciation for the insight, humor and ramblings.

I have to wonder - how did Locke and Alex get around the "Security System"?? I don't believe the death fence crosses the ocean (and therefore the submarine also).

#133. Posted by: Rayman at March 22, 2007 9:16 PM

Cooper could be Jacob

#134. Posted by: c at March 22, 2007 9:18 PM

LOL @ what is air

@Matt---Locke's intentions and motivations arent changing by season. He has always done what HE thought needed to be done including causing the original hatch implosion/explosion.

I thought this was the most dynamic episode to date. Every line/scene barring the Jack/Kate scene was intensely acted/written and perfectly intrigues the viewer. (except maybe one or two posters including one expert at pushing ppl through windows without falling out himself. AND @ ButchM--the Lost writers are not lost and if watching the losties was so boring you wouldnt still be watching it....and reading blogs about it.)
I loved how the opening scene gave the appearance that John was already in a wheelchair while talking to the social worker. Then he stands up.. seems to be written to put doubt in our minds about other flashbacks and what we REALLY saw.
Perhaps the most important lines in the whole episode are from Alex to John: "Thats what my father does...he manipulates people...he makes you think its your idea, but its his." John replies.. "I'll have to keep that in mind."

John coming off the dock wet was not a mistake by the writers...that certainly meant something important. Someone will find out the condition of the sub soon.

I find it interesting that "bring me the man from Tallahassee" means gag and tie up Cooper and stuff him in the hold. Unless, as some of you have theorized, that Cooper IS smokey in a new form, it is code for "get the wish box ready I'm bringing John to see it."
I find it more plausible that somehow this is a master plan to recruit John. Thinking too much about it makes my head spin though.

Sidenotes:

There are pictures in both Jack's and Ben's quarters of an island valley near waterfront.. minus the barracks.

There are moments when Ben seemed genuinely interested and clued in on what Locke was saying to him. Take that as you like....perhaps Ben realizes that he isnt doing something right with the "island" or it's "box".

Personally, if I was Jack, I wouldve ditched Kate a while ago. The prospect of a life with Juliet seems plenty appealing as a replacement.

Maybe Ben will let Jack cut open Cooper's kidney sac.

#135. Posted by: kilorooster at March 22, 2007 9:26 PM

Check out this blog by J. Wood (author of "Living Lost") for insightful literary and historical "Lost" symbolisms every week:

powellsBooks.blog

Go to "J Wood", read his take on this week's episode, then click on his photo for his other episode posts.

@Mac: this is in NO possible way meant as any disrespect. YOU are the master of Lost reviews and the king of Lost innuendos and laugh-out-loud Lost summaries. This is simply a secondary reference tool!

#136. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 9:26 PM

@GatorGal: No worries. I welcome all interesting, relevant, funny, cool stuff. -- mac

#137. Posted by: mac at March 22, 2007 9:37 PM

Two thoguht, then off to do dishes (thrilling, I know.):

(1) If Ben does have some added "hierarchial power" amongst the Others because he was born on the island (as opposed to being brought there) then I agree with Mac that this make baby Arron the heir to the throne so to speak. Will the baby that Sun is carrying then also somehow come into play? Is there soem kinda weird blue-bloodish first born of a first born thing going on here?

(2) What were the four little "doo dads" lined up in a neat, tidy row on top of the piano that jack was playing? They looked suspiciously like four black rocks! Did anyone else catch this?

#138. Posted by: GatorGal at March 22, 2007 9:40 PM

**possible spoiler**

My 2nd posting today...my newest theory which I'm sticking to until Damon & Carlton prove it all wrong. Soooo...here it is...

I had to go back and think about Desmond and how he plays into this scenerio with all that "see into the future" stuff. I'm sure this has been discussed before...but

The Island is a parallel universe.
The Losties are the Past and the Others, the Future.

When Ben stated to Locke that he was born on the Island, the 1st thing that came to mind was baby Aaron. The other is that an upcoming episode a newcomer is introduced to the Island (Billy D. Williams) and I think this newcomer is actually Walt; Anthony Cooper is Sawyer and Tom is Hurley. Who is Locke? I'm not sure yet..but I think he's there to totally mess up the whole structure. Who's Jack? Jack could be HIM and Kate? I dunno.

This parallel universe was 1st found by Magnus Hanso (world explorer, slave traffiker, grandfather to Alvar Hanso)and the legacy of Dharma was built around it. Mittleworks found out about this parallel universe and engaged in a cozy relationship in the name of science then initiated the purge to take control. And now everyone is experiencing a collision of past and future because of John Locke!

After typing all that I feel the need to shop...for shoes....Crazy theory?

#139. Posted by: amelia at March 22, 2007 9:53 PM

I think it is really cool that Kate - who is pertually running away finally came back only to be told "I wish you hadn't". Lovely irony!!!!

Also, did Ben focus on wanting to prevent Jack from leaving the island only because he was talking to Locke or does he not care about Juliette leaving the island too?

The teaser for next week tells that someone will die. Should we assume it is going to be Charlie since we have been forwarned by Des and his future flashes or will someone else bite the big one?

#140. Posted by: maureen at March 22, 2007 10:05 PM

may I add two more thoughts.
1. Was that young Alex picture on the wall in Ben's bedroom? If he's not the real father, why does he really care for Alex?
2. I just can't understand why these guards took the guns but left the bag carrying C4 unopened. Not a professional Losterian Guard in my opinion.

#141. Posted by: vazirani at March 22, 2007 10:09 PM

I didn't read all the comments, but this "magic box" is possibly how Kate's horse, Jack's dad, and Hurley's friend got on the island. Maybe it has something to do with the time warp being able to bring thse people or things back to life and in island time.

#142. Posted by: Heather at March 22, 2007 10:20 PM

By the time I read halfway through the comments, I realized that I needed to take notes to be sure I didn't forget what I wanted to say, so I went back to the top & reread...but I'm sure I'll still miss things. Anyway:

*Mac, your line about Ben normally sleeping upside-down was spit-coffee-at-the-screen-worthy. LOL!

*Ben's comment to Locke about the length of time that he (Locke) worked at the box factory was odd. Yes, it didn't seem as though Locke had worked there prior to his "accident" (some accident!), which would make his employment there four years of less.

*Interesting idea about Locke moving the sub, then swimming back & blowing up the pier to cover the sub's absence. I too had wondered how & why he was soaked head to toe.

*I'm not getting why Ben would think that Locke's motivation for removing ways to leave the island was to keep Cooper away. Aside from Cooper seeking Locke out to con him out of his kidney, it's always been Locke who sought out Cooper & Cooper who would have been happy to never see Locke again...& who was none too happy to see his son who he had tried to kill standing there in front of him in the position of power.

*Jack's comment to Kate about it being her who caused him to trust the Others seems to be a lame cover-up for his real reason (seeing Sawyer & Kate snuggling like two hiberating bears). Whether Kate picked up on the lameness of the excuse & correctly attributed it to Jack's knowledge I don't know. However, Jack still wants to fix people...that's why he told Kate that he'll be back for her (& thereby turning the screw of guilt a bit deeper into her).

*Do the Others use a jury system? I don't remember if we saw much into the "courtroom" when Jack & Alex burst in during Juliet's "trial" to see a jury box. It seems more likely that edicts get handed down from on high & the community gets to watch the punishment so that they're deterred from repeating the crime.

*There was definitely some large tattoo or marking underneath Jack's left arm that didn't appear to be the tattoos that we had seen before. And I didn't think of it before typing the word "marking," but was Jack marked by the Others just as Juliet was?

*Alex's lack of reaction to Sayid's comment was actually pretty credible, I thought. There was an Other guard right there, plus Locke was holding Ben at gunpoint until she returned w/the backpack, & even if she hates Ben at the moment (per his comment), I'm sure that it was a distraction from what Sayid said. However, I'm sure that she's thinking it over quite a bit & will pursue the information in future episodes.

*Yes, the car alarm going off during Peter's visit to Locke's scrungy apt. did seem to be loud enough to be noted by us as a clue (or red herring). I think you could see Locke's eyes shift to the window as he noted the sound...if he lived in an area where alarms went off all the time, you'd think that he wouldn't pay that much attention to it.

*Finally (whew, you all say, she's finally done), the comment about Charlie's dad butchering dolls' heads in Charlie's dream...doesn't that reference what was supposed to be the cover art for one of the Beatles' albums?

And I knew I'd almost forget something...hurling, loved your use of "defenestration"! : )

#143. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 22, 2007 10:26 PM

didn't mikhail say the barracks were surrounded by the security perimeter? whend did locke and kate ever go through those to make it to the sub?

#144. Posted by: shaanz35 at March 22, 2007 10:32 PM

locke and alex i meant

#145. Posted by: shaanz35 at March 22, 2007 10:35 PM

I still think that Cooper is Hanso. It sure looks like him in the Dharma tape and now we find him conveniently on the island. He's the big cheese and his "capture" is just another ploy by the Others.

#146. Posted by: PAG at March 22, 2007 10:45 PM

@ vazirani

We've been told by both Ben and Alex that Ben raised Alex. Thats reason enough for him to care about her, regardless of her bloodline. Also, this episode seemed to hint that being born on the island is something that set some apart from others. If Rousseau's words are true...then Alex, like Ben and baby Aaron, was born on the island.

#147. Posted by: kilorooster at March 22, 2007 11:22 PM

@Mazgator
that might be the most logical idea I've heard all day. I think you just might turn out to be right.

#148. Posted by: KaytieD at March 23, 2007 12:00 AM

EJ...

I have no problems with how Alex has handled the info from Sayid.

Did you somehow forget that her dad was being held at gunpoint?

If you were in her shoes, would you not hurry to finish your task and not jeapordize the life of your father?

After she brings the sack back to Locke, do you think she should have asked gun toating Locke to give her a moment alone with her father so she could ask about her mother?

Alex is a smart cookie. No doubt - this is going to eat away at her, and she will start looking into the history of her mom.

#149. Posted by: shikotee at March 23, 2007 12:35 AM

EJ...

I have no problems with how Alex has handled the info from Sayid.

Did you somehow forget that her dad was being held at gunpoint?

If you were in her shoes, would you not hurry to finish your task and not jeapordize the life of your father?

After she brings the sack back to Locke, do you think she should have asked gun toating Locke to give her a moment alone with her father so she could ask about her mother?

Alex is a smart cookie. No doubt - this is going to eat away at her, and she will start looking into the history of her mom.

#150. Posted by: shikotee at March 23, 2007 12:35 AM

I read about 200 posts but I can't reads no more, so many redundant theories. And mine will probably be too.

First off, MAC you never disapoint - thanks and I hope you are getting paid for this gig.

An awesome fact I read in the forums was this:
"Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad".
Which just about confirms the Locke Sawyer connection as much as Claire and Jack. Well done writers, I bet they get all giddy and roll around on the floor like beached whales when they come up with that stuff.

Things I think we should really think about is what is Locke's "communion" with the island? I feel it is the same as Walt's and that is why the others were so interested in the boy as well.

What will Locke blow up next? I'm guessing either a polar bear or Ben. And then we could get the line "Dude, you got a piece of Benry on you".

Favorite MACism:
"Kate blinks -- she can't believe that 80 days of coy smiles and tight jeans and "whoopsie, I just came out of this steamy shower half-naked" maneuvers have been wiped from Jack's memory by that diabolical blond hussy."

@ Hurling - your name wouldn't happen to be Ryan Sky would it. I only know one other person that knows what defenestration means. And I bet it feels awesome to use it in a sentence.

We're going to need a bigger/another submarine.

Until next week - much love to all y'all

#151. Posted by: callaway76 at March 23, 2007 1:22 AM

i was having very up and down feelings about our locke in this ep. during the back stories i felt so bad for him, what a horrible life he has lead. then in real lost time, i was so mad at him for doing what he did.
him and ben, that was brilliant writing all around.
kate and jack, i wanted jack to call her out sooooo bad.
the tatoo buged me and the boy friend too.
mac, you're the man! my dog is half named after you. :-)

#152. Posted by: Laura at March 23, 2007 1:49 AM

Busy day at work today so every time I made it to a point to post I had to refresh and spend another hour reading. That’s not a complaint (except about work I guess), y’all made a very busy day very enjoyable! Bunch of stuff to touch on and I’ve had a bit of Chivas so excuse the length.

Mac – Thank you again!!

Deep Cover – Glad to know you, too, are a Hero! Also loved the wish fulfillment angle. It makes a lot of sense. One possible snag on that though is that the only way Juliet could get to Lost Island was if her ex-hubby was hit by a bus, which didn’t happen on the island. Have wish fulfillment, will travel? I think you’re definitely on to something but is it confined to the island?!?

Connie – Thank you for reminding me of my age. “Rampart we’ve got a male Caucasian electrocuted by a Sonic Fence of Death.” Will Pete Malloy & Jim Reed make the final arrest?

Matt – I’m with you on the whole clones idea. It makes me cringe but that’s more because of something that happened in the Spider-man comics about 10 years ago that I’ve never recovered from.

Charles – Although it’s already been commented on, I think there’s definitely a tunnel system that we only have inkling about. I also think this explains how Ethan & Gordon (dang Chivas, was it Gordon?) got to each crash site as quickly as they did

Lost addict – I think you’re truly on to something here with the 3 group theory. We’ve got at least another season to go and we ain’t even met The Hostiles. Makes Patchy’s whole “We had a deal!” exclamation work much more than just a con on our Losities.

MazGator & hurling – THANK YOU!!! Locke’s the man and I just couldn’t accept him screwing over all the castaways like that and that is SUCH a beautiful explanation for why he was so wet. Holding on to my ‘77 gave a set of instructions’ theory though. Maybe not so much to pretend to blow up the sub but definitely to blow up the Flame.

Maureen – Nice call on the Kate irony

Too many to address – I’ve been big time thinking Locke’s poppa & Sawyer’s Sawyer are one & the same. Can’t wait to see that meet-up!

Some thoughts of my own… maybe… blame the Chivas if I’m repeating & please accept my apologies:

Kate’s “What’d they tell you?” comment – Soooo in love with Jack & hopin’ he knows nothing about getting ‘stuck in a net’ with Sawyer!

Tom warnin’ Jack about Other’s listening? Tom’s got a cru-ush! Tom’s got a cru-ush! “Oh my gosh! You can’t leave cuz Locke blew up the sub? I’m so sorry!!! C’mere big guy”

****SPOILER*** or really just speculating BUT if the whole Lost Experience thing is part of the continuity & the creators have said Mike & Walt are coming back could it be that while the rest of the world is going on in real time, TIME is going slower on the island and this is how they explain Walt being in his teens when he shows back up? Could this also explain Desmond’s ‘remembering’ all of Charlie’s various demises?

And in closing… did nobody else find it funny as all get out when Evil Ben wrapped up the leftover chicken for tomorrow’s sandwiches? That may just have been the most surreal moment of this whole series for me.

#153. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at March 23, 2007 1:57 AM


callaway76 re: what will Locke blow up? Much like What Would Jesus Do, could this be our next acronym? WWLBU?

#154. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at March 23, 2007 2:07 AM

As noted by some above, it is clear that Locke has NOT blown up the sub.

1. On the way to the sub, Alex tells Locke that Ben is a manipulator. Locke says he will 'keep it in mind'. This is a hint that Locke is up to something devious himself.

2. The scene in the sub is deliberately cut at a point at which Locke could have laid explosives, or piloted it away.

3. Locke is not just wet, he is soaking, and the camera pans up from the dripping legs.

4. We don't see the sub blow up, or remnants.

5. Before and after the explosion, Locke is looking at Jack intently - too intently. Great acting by O'Quinn, because that is not a look of 'sorry, I blew up the sub', it's a look of 'don't worry, I've just stolen the sub for our future use'.

I look forward to seeing this in the future.

Great blog, by the way.

#155. Posted by: sjm at March 23, 2007 3:53 AM

mac,
mikhail had military background so he could man the sub, yes?
a friend has a garden of eden theory, but it is just not clicking.
also the submarine sub-plot is incredibly weird cause how in the name of everything that is holy would anyone, even the dharma iniciative would get their hands on a submarine that size????? i mean is not like they sell them in west marine. or u go to the sub store and order one for next month, how the hell does that work? submarines from previous wars are for sale or what? Why a submarine anyways??? why not a plane like the plane that droped the dharma food via parachutes, or why not a simple boat? a sub is practically a submersible boat with a sonar, a radar is practically the same, one for air, one for underwater. why not bring the "other people" on a boat?
walt and micheal left on a boat.
the submarine sub-plot doesnt make a lot of sense, it actually seems too far fetched..... I mean a SUBMARINE?!?!?!?
i particularly pathom the idea of the island being purgatory more than the garden of eden and maybe Benry is the boatman, you know like in old irish tales where you pay the boatman to cross from purgatory to heavean
and im catholic and that aint no garden of eden, and if it is.............dang!
we are all in for it now!!!
The island could be a fountain of youth sort of thing. more likely with the locke and rose backstories. hmmmm?!?!?

#156. Posted by: mapache at March 23, 2007 4:46 AM

mapache -

The sub seems consistent to me. Firstly, it probably isn't a millitary sub. Secondly, an organisation that has the power and money to pull off all the stuff we have seen on Lost has definitely got the money to get a sub. In fact, the sub is almost essential, as it explains plot points, especially how people have been able to get from place to place quickly and without being seen.

I would just like to also congratulate Locke's hair. It's been very useful to me to tell just when these flashbacks are happening!

Also, as a newcomer to the board, I am impressed by some of the theories that have been suggested. Very creative. I do suspect however, that what will be revealed will be far more simple than what has been put forward.....

#157. Posted by: sjm at March 23, 2007 5:58 AM

Remember, way back in `Orientation', the hoopla about the novel `The Third Policeman'?

This episode harks me back. When I wrote this, on my own now abandoned LOST blog:

http://tinyurl.com/2pbxbj

I thought the important parallel between the book and the island was the mysterious hatch. If you read the book, or my old blog where I talk about it, the bit about the magic drawers that appear in the mysterious hatch in `The Third Policeman' that will give you whatever you wish seem to evoke Ben's Magic Box, non? Maybe this book is more important than they said?

#158. Posted by: Ishtvan at March 23, 2007 7:30 AM

@everyone regarding the security system...(I can't remember specific posts...sorry)...I am thinking, though, that Benry's group, if we are still considering them the Others, seems to be smart enough and calculating enough to realize the possibility of plane crash survivors attempting to explore the island and eventually finding their compound. If this was the case, wouldn't they plan for this by setting up outside security/cameras to ensure they would be made aware of someone else's presence? Their sonic defense fence is not so advanced that human beings couldn't figure out a simple way to get over it (i.e. a tree trunk). So I am still thinking that the security system in place is definitely to keep people in more than out. It seems as though they never had to fend for themselves before the survivors of 815 came along...

#159. Posted by: Vikki at March 23, 2007 7:42 AM

That Locke was wet after rigging the sub is highly suspect. I think that there will be more surprises and twists in the future from Locke. Also, what was that with the social worker suspending his benefits and then him walking away? What disability were they talking about?

Could it be that Cooper is one of the taillies?

So long...

#160. Posted by: itsiph at March 23, 2007 9:05 AM

About the security fence:

@Vikki - you may be right about the fence being there to keep something in - at least originally. There were no tall trees on the inside of the fence - at least not near the fence. But we saw what happens when a clever monkey cuts down one on the outside. Maybe the fence wasn't there first for the barracks, though, maybe they came along later after whatever used to be in the fence was no longer around - remember the whole zoo looking thing?

Also about the fence - on the map that Sayid had, on the upper portion there was clearly an entrance. Could be that this entrance is where the dock is. Maybe that is one gap that actually isn't fortified because they didn't think they would need to either keep things from escaping into the water, or from it - or the possibility was so small that they keep that part off. That could be another reason John was wet - checking out how to get in & out. But not blowing up the sub is a good reason, too.

#161. Posted by: Helen at March 23, 2007 9:16 AM

About the magic box, possibly this is not a literal description of it. Yes, it's Smokey, but Smokey takes the shape of what the characters wish for. Jack longs for his dad, Eko longs for his dead brother. Kate longed for the horse which set her free. Just an idea. I am not finished reading all the posts yet, but I always forget so I am jumping to the end with my ideas.

My favorite line was Ben's, where he said "clearly we do" about needing a code phrase for Locke is in the closet holding my daughter captive. That cracked me up!!!

#162. Posted by: meg at March 23, 2007 9:33 AM

@lostsox John wanted a sub sandwich

Ha! He was on the Jarod diet before he left Australia and he saw his chance to get back on course.

#163. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 23, 2007 9:48 AM

GREAT post AMELIA....In regards to your SPOILER REPORT.....Maybe Kate is the french lady Rousseau!!! They look alike. Jack is for sure "HIM"...a great man. well done

#164. Posted by: dantheman at March 23, 2007 9:57 AM

@callaway76 - no, I'm not Ryan, but you'll be happy to know there are whole bunches of us. See Tales from the White Hart; "The Defenestration of Ermintrude Inch". 1957. Arthur C. Clarke.

#165. Posted by: hurling at March 23, 2007 10:07 AM

@ those asking about what therapy sessions Locke was skipping out on.
I thought there was something said about depression in that convo John had with the social worker.

#166. Posted by: kilorooster at March 23, 2007 10:12 AM

Cooper looked scared, especially when he saw Locke. I think he's the real thing. Perhaps conjured up as some sort of mind game experiment that's going on. At this point I'm beginning to think this whole thing is part of a Dharma mind game. At some point each person came in contact with Dharma and that's what the flashbacks are leading to. They were all willingly part of some experiment, yet they don't really remember it. Wasn't there some Arnold S. movie like that?

I am beginning to hate Locke. I vote for him to be killed. What an idiot. I think he's a wimp too. Get over it! Your dad sucks, oh well. Don't lay around the house moping about it for god's sake!

#167. Posted by: meg at March 23, 2007 10:13 AM

re: Locke being wet.

Not sure if Locke blew up the sub or not. As to his being wet, there is one point that I have not seen mentioned yet. I for one was not concerned or surpised that he was wet. I prefer to keep it simple stupid (KISS). Ships/submarines have bilges, which are typically located in engineering spaces. If Locke were really trying to eliminate the sub from future use he would have to ensure that his ONE C4 charge was placed in the most appropriate space to do that amount of damage. I suspect that Locke encountered the subs bilges when planting the C4 charge in the location most likely to incapacity the sub. Hence, he was wet.

#168. Posted by: DJ at March 23, 2007 10:15 AM

@Alais - Hi, just saw your post. I'm in the office today, so trying to read quickly. Are we having a mass migration from the forum? Lots of interesting ideas here, it's just a difficult format to read.

#169. Posted by: hurling at March 23, 2007 10:16 AM

Did anyone else happen to notice the few easter eggs in this episode?

The scotch that Cooper pours two glasses of, before he pushes Locke out the window.

The pictures on the walls of Ben's abode.

Also of interest:

The reference to Con men, and what they mean to Locke, when Kate and Sawyer have both lived that life.

When Jack was talking to Kate in the Others Rec room, 'We're leaving first thing in the morning' yet they go to the Sub that night. Inconsistent.

Richard Alpert is Smokey, thus the magic box. Alpert was present when Juliet's ex-husband dances with the bus, and is the go to guy to get Cooper. Alpert wasn't in Otherton, when the plane was crashing. When Ben wishes for something, Alpert makes it happen. Neural Surgeon, Exhusband bus accident, Cooper front and center. Alpert was probably at the Chicken Shack when the meteor hit.


#170. Posted by: Neal Mindflood at March 23, 2007 10:17 AM

@AmyK: The dialogue between Locke and the disability benefit caseworker indicated that Locke's disability was depression. The idea of the scene (camera angles, carefully written dialogue) was to mislead you for a while into thinking that they were talking about his paralysis, so don't feel bad.

@GatorGal: Glad I could be somebody's hero, LOL!

@Mac: The precis of this ep really is one of your high water mark writing efforts that I've seen in the last ten years. I think your need to self-edit to be more efficient/succinct has succeeded in pushing you to evolve a more compact/high impact style. Stress, pressure, deadlines and time constraints seem to agree with you. I think you're ready to become a dad now ;-)

#171. Posted by: Deep Cover at March 23, 2007 10:35 AM

@DC: Thanks DC. All those years of journalism training and tight deadlines appears to have attached itself to one of the functioning parts of my brain ;)

To be honest, the "new" format is more enjoyable for me as well. -- mac

#172. Posted by: mac at March 23, 2007 10:39 AM

(And I can't believe it's been 10 years ...) -- mac

#173. Posted by: mac at March 23, 2007 10:41 AM

@SUPDRAGON @MazGator

>My thoughts exactly. While watching last night I told my daughter that there was no reason for Locke to be wet if he put the C4 in the sub. I also think he moved it and blew up the end of the pier.

There's a perfectly good reason to place the explosives on the outside of the sub. The water acts as a tamper, greatly increasing the destructive force of the explosion.

That's why the famous British 617 Squadron (Dam Busters) developed the tactic of dropping their skip-bombs to sink on the upstream side of the Ruhr dams, then explode underwater, breaching the dams. The water concentrated the force of the explosions on the dam. The same amount of explosive dropped on the air (downstream) side would have just scratched the concrete, with most of the explosive force dissipating in the air.

My prediction - the sub's a goner.

#174. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 23, 2007 10:50 AM

Here's my interpretation of magic box.

Magic Box is...well

The one thing very obvious to me is the island will create anything (or anyone) that any of the main characters can think up. The island manifests whatever is desired, imagined, feared, or thought about. The island itself is responsible for these things - or rather, the characters are responsible for them through the power of thought or will.

Example? Locke's gained his legs back. Jack sees his father. Kate sees stallion. Charlie found heroin. Sayid sees the cat and he tries to escape a life which he was forced to torture people. Yet once on the island he inevitably finds himself having to do those same things yet again. etc.

In short, I think the island makes all things possible. Was there dynamite in the Black Rock before they needed it to blow the hatch, or was the dynamite suddenly there once they DID need it?

Plus, I believe Mikhail told the truth about sonic fence has not been working for years. Sayid didn't believe him and think it still works. Thus the island makes it work!

Who knows how long ago Locke inadvertently manifested his dad. The point is that upon stumbling across the man from Tallahassee, Ben immediately knew who was responsible for him. This made Locke a very important commodity to Ben, which may be why he came looking for him in season two.

#175. Posted by: lenny at March 23, 2007 11:02 AM

Working on the theory that the island is a parallel universe with Ben being the grown-up version of Aaron... this would make Ben/Aaron Jack's nephew, and Alex would be his step-grandniece! Does this mean anything? Probably not. Just a thought I wanted to express.

Aside from that theory, could Locke be Ben's long lost (pun intended) big brother? Where was he from before foster care, anyway? If Cooper is Hanso, then Locke could be the original island son...

#176. Posted by: Wendy at March 23, 2007 11:17 AM

@Gatorgal - I was hoping Ft. Myers would be the one! Wow, we sure have Florida covered.

@ Kilorooster - Your comment about cutting open his kidney sack made me crack up - hilarious! Is that sick?

Someone made a note about how attracted they were too Ben. I have to say, he is one talented actor. Alex has an intruiging look about her as well. Figure that one out.

#177. Posted by: meg at March 23, 2007 11:48 AM

The "magic box" potentially explains a lot. I'm referring to the appereance of the horse, Jack's dad, Ecko's brother, etc. The other's apparently know the Oceanics well enougth to bring on these "images". I've heard that these images are the smoke monster taking on another form. I give major props to Sayid for speaking up. I hate how they never say anything. Like why didn't John Locke say to Ben how do you know these things. Also, is John's dad really John's dad or was that a con too. Finally, was John's dad plucked out of reality and placed on the island, does he exist in Mexico and on the island or is he an illusion of some sort. If John's dad does exist in two places this lines up with the episode regarding Desmond. Desmond was naked on the island and he was in his old life. Basically at the same time, but time was different. However, he traveled in time, but we can't deny that he was also on the island turning the key and going back in time. This could explains that episode. If my theory is accurate.

#178. Posted by: Deirdre at March 23, 2007 11:48 AM

Wow it takes a long time to get through all these posts! I was intrigued by the idea of Locke moving the sub and blowing up the dock as an explanation for him being wet. However, in the morning won't it be obvious to the others that the damage only included parts of the wooden dock and no sub parts? Sure the Others wouldn't have the sub but right now the Losties don't have it either!
Also, knowing that they could easily figure out that the sub wasn't destroyed, why would Locke come back and get taken prisoner again? Once everyone would figure out the sub isn't really destroyed, they can just manipulate him while he's in their custody to find out where he put it. Why wouldn't he just take it back to Losties beach?
Verdict: This theary doesn't hold water for me. I still think there must be a point to him being soaking wet but its not from hiding the sub. The sub is toast.

#179. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 23, 2007 12:08 PM

I belive Locke did not blow up the end of the pier - he set the c4 charge in his pack - threw it in the water. If you remember the explosion it occurred beyond the end of the pier. This is why Locke no longer has his backpack.
Comments?

#180. Posted by: Len at March 23, 2007 12:25 PM

"(And I can't believe it's been 10 years ...) -- mac"

Well, nine years since I discovered your efforts at ontap, but ten years since you began them. I'm not quite the oldest kid still hanging around your clubhouse, but I'm close--heh.

BTW, did you know that the ontap domain is a realty company now?

Hmmm, I need something on topic to justify this. Lessee. . . .

I think that, despite the seeming inconsistencies, it will turn out that Locke is the one who fell past the window when Hurley was meeting with his accountant. We haven't seen the last Locke backstory, not by a longshot. We've got to cover all the ground where he evolves from self-pitying recent paraplegic to self-assured armchair warrior and zen master. Along the way, the timeline will get cleaned up/clarified. But it's almost inconceivable to me that, given the structure of Lost, Locke wouldn't be the guy falling past Hurley's window.

#181. Posted by: Deep Cover at March 23, 2007 12:26 PM

Hey guys did I miss something about Sun's pregnancy??? Wasn't she going to have a baby - what happened with that??
She doesn't look preggers to me !! Did the magnetic pull from the anomally extract it, or what???

#182. Posted by: PJ in Paradise at March 23, 2007 12:51 PM

@PJ in Paradise
It's only bee a couple of weeks island time since Sun discovered she was pregnant.

@Len
I think Locke blew up more than just his backpack. Again, the others would easily find out that there was no sub wreckage. Locke had to have blown up the sub.

#183. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 23, 2007 12:55 PM

@PJ: In the "Lost" timeline, Sun has only been pregnant for a few weeks.

#184. Posted by: mac at March 23, 2007 12:56 PM

It looked in the previews as if Sun was the one who killed someone. Any ideas on that sneak peek? She made some comment to someone and said something like, "You'll be the next to be buried if you tell Jin."

I truly admire the memories you all have to recall these bits of detail.

#185. Posted by: meg at March 23, 2007 1:01 PM

PJ,
It's only been 2-3 weeks Island time since last year's season finale. That's why we haven't seen Penny either.
It seems like forever to us because it has been, but only a span of 2-3 weeks on the show.
Michael & Walt can show up next season and it'd be like they were only gone a month.

#186. Posted by: MrEko237 at March 23, 2007 1:05 PM

CrispySeaplanes:

My take on the sub:
Locke moves the sub away from the pier. Submerges and uses the escape hatch in the conning tower to get to the surface (with his pack/c4). Swims to the pier, sets the charge, tosses his pack away from the submerged sub. Boom. No sub and no evidence either way. On anther board there is a photo of Sayid examining something underwater. Wonder if he is trying to open the escape hatch to gain access to the sub. This could fit, provided the sub's escape hatch and conning tower were seperately sealed.

Len

#187. Posted by: Len at March 23, 2007 1:39 PM

@mac: Is there any way to start numbering the comments in the blog? The popularity has made catching up on posts a little difficult. I now remember date/time of the last post I have read. Numbers would help. :-)
@DC: I still think that it is not Locke that fell past Hurley, but I still love the theory.

#188. Posted by: onelostdude at March 23, 2007 1:42 PM

@onelostdude: Numbering is a good idea. Let me see what I can figure out. -- mac

#189. Posted by: mac at March 23, 2007 1:45 PM

@Len

I still think that if his intent was to fool the Others into thinking that the sub was destroyed by setting off the C4 near the dock, that the Other's would easily find that there are no remnants of the sub left after the blast. The explosion wouldn't have incinerated every particle of the sub if it were blown up. There would have to be some wreckage afterward. In the absence of that wreckage Ben would deduce that Locke didn't really blow it up. I just think he really blew it up and that there has to be some other explanation for Locke's wetness (eww that sounds kind of gross when put that way!)
Anyway I think I'll have to rewatch the end off my DVR when I get home and see if I see anything new.

#190. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 23, 2007 1:52 PM

@Ishtvan - the magic box in the third policeman was an oven? I can't remember exactly. But I do remember you could not take whatever was created in this oven/magic box out of the labrynth where the oven/magic box was located. Perhaps this is the case with the island's magic box, and anything created on the island only exists on the island. Maybe ben made a fake walt from the box, and we'll see a scene where mike and walt are boating along when all of a sudden walt disappears, prompting michaels return to the island. This scene would coincide nicely with walt being discovered on the island by someone who witnessed him leave. jeez, what would deselby think.

#191. Posted by: a robot by the river at March 23, 2007 2:07 PM

Crispy Seaplanes,

Ahh, but Locke is playing Ben - remember what Alex told Locke about Ben's knack for bluffing. I think Locke has won this hand - imagine Ben's disposition if/when he finds that the sub has not been destroyed - his plot (whatever that is) will have been foiled. Also, please notice, when you watch the ep again, the pier is still 100% intact. And don't know if this means anything or not - the explosion happens on the surface and is 'clean' - seemingly not having been encased (inside the sub) in anything other than the pack. You can see sparks from the explosion, like when fireworks are set off on land. Would we see the same effect if the explosion was deep inside the sub and under the water line.

Now my head is hurting!

Len

#192. Posted by: Len at March 23, 2007 2:11 PM

I think re. the sub that Locke opened up a hatch of some sort (bilge maybe) to flood the sub and detonated the C4 towards the end of the pier. Therefore, the sub would be submerged and look like it sank, but Locke would know that it is still operable. That would explain his being wet, the sub missing, and Locke's "...keep it in mind..." remark to Alex.

The Flame/Cinder explosion is a bit of a Locke subterfuge. Locke wants Ben (and us) to think that he's just a rabid explosion freak.

We've not seen the end of the sub, and I got a dollar that says somewhere sometime Locke spent some time on a sub and Ben just doesn't know about it.

#193. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 23, 2007 2:12 PM

MazGator -

Why is Locke wet? Because subs work in water and I bet Locke had to get in the water to attach the explosives. I bet he also pushed the sub away from the dock so as it wouldn't blow up the dock (there are still boats, doncha know?)

#194. Posted by: Sam at March 23, 2007 2:13 PM

Forum Shmorum! No time for that! Much easier to read Mac's review and then peruse the comments. All the info and conjecture we could ever need!

Some of us are needling Mac for leaving stuff out or forgetting things in his reviews. We need to remember that he is now just hitting the very main and vital points of the episodes and is counting on us to fill in the blanks through our comments.

Okay, I just re-watched the end of this ep (thank you abc.com!). When Locke walks down the pier the sub is on the left side of the pier. But the explosion is clearly at the end of the pier, and no sub can be seen to the left.

When John enters the sub he is a man on a mission- he's looking for the control room in my opinion, and it appears he walks into it before the scene cuts away. We don't see him pull the C4 out of the pack at any time- I think we would've immediately seen that if he really did blow up the sub from the inside. And if he blew up the sub from the outside, there would've been no reason for him to go inside it.

So I think he found the control room and moved the sub away from the dock. John seems to intuitively know his way around the sub, having no trouble locating where the light switch is. To me this indicates that he has some knowledge of subs and would be able to figure out how to pilot it pretty quickly. Maybe he really did used to be in the Navy?

The only hole in this theory is the lack of sub wreckage, which should be pretty obvious to the Others. (But maybe not in TV Land?)

#195. Posted by: JoePike at March 23, 2007 2:18 PM

@hurling: (waving hi back) I've been swinging both ways, so to speak, for quite a while now...reading/posting both here & in the forums. I don't know if there's a mass migration from the forums (hmmm, should that be fora?) to here...I like posting here because all the discussion to do w/one episode is in one place, but you're right, it's hard to read. Plus Joshanda can't post those great pix over here! ; >

Re the initial scene in the episode of Locke & the caseworker: We the audience were definitely led to believe that Locke was in a wheelchair at that point. My guess is that he had been in therapy from a yet-unseen "anger management incident" w/depression stemming from his loss of Helen, whether it was due to her being in a triple-cross w/Cooper or not.

***POSSIBLE SPOILER AHEAD***

This is just speculation, but I'm wondering if anyone really dies next week or not. Does anyone remember the dialogue from the trailer saying specifically that someone bites the bullet? I was thinking that the scene of Sawyer & Sun digging was carefully constructed to seem like they were digging a grave, but as we've seen w/Locke & the caseworker, we could have been misled.

#196. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 23, 2007 2:23 PM

Yeah, I believe the announcer pretty clearly said something like "...and someone will die." for next week's ep. Usually it's pretty anti-climactic for who it ends up being though!

I also thought that watching Ben put the chicken away from the inside of the fridge was pretty surreal. Were we meant to check out it's contents? Mostly fruit and Dharma cans...but does this mean that Bensylvania is still getting regular food drops?

Maybe it was just the best way to get Ben to that side of his house so Jack and Juliet could enter behind him. LOVED Ben's line to Juliet (initially ignoring Jack)- "What, you don't knock?"

I really believe that this magic box Ben referred to is purely metaphorical, and was away to try to explain to John the island's potential.

And I really think there's no way Locke was who Hurley saw falling outside the high rise building window. Not only do the timelines not match, but Hurley said that it was a suicide. He would've known that the 'jumper' survived if it had been Locke, but he definitely knew the guy croaked.

#197. Posted by: JoePike at March 23, 2007 2:38 PM

@ Dr. Bologna -And in closing… did nobody else find it funny as all get out when Evil Ben wrapped up the leftover chicken for tomorrow’s sandwiches? That may just have been the most surreal moment of this whole series for me.

Do you think they were bologna
sandwiches?

@meg - I am beginning to hate Locke. I vote for him to be killed. What an idiot. I think he's a wimp too. Get over it! Your dad sucks, oh well. Don't lay around the house moping about it for god's sake!

Amen to that - the guy is a complete imbecile.

Someone way back in the blog mentioned something about "at the end of the day, they were all still prisoners of the Others," ot something to that effect. I agree whole heartedly - I mean all the stuff that y'all have discussed is extremely interesting, thought provoking, and it shows that many of you/us are really into the show, but still, regardless of what has transpired, the Losties are once again prisoners of the Others. Personally, if I was in a war, I would hope Sayid was on the other side.


#198. Posted by: Smitty at March 23, 2007 2:58 PM

regarding locke and the caseworker: maybe locke was being treated for depression after finding out that he was misled and conned out of his kidney by his father. transplants are considered high risk surgery and maybe his doctor referred him to a therapist after one of many follow up visits.

if locke blew up the sub while it was submerged would one block of c4 be enough to damage the sub enough that the wreckage would float to the top eventually or wouldnt the sub just sink to the bottom of the lake/river/ocean??

i dont think alex took sayid's comments about her mother lightly, i'm sure they will be addressed at some point.

am i mistaken or did next weeks preview say that the connection that all the losties have will be revealed??

keep up the great work mac!

#199. Posted by: tiffani at March 23, 2007 3:01 PM

In the promo for next week's episode, they definitely show a white female lying in a hole, with dirt being dumped on her. They do not show her face, but she seems to be wearing blue jean shorts and a tank top. Her arms are folded in front of her, and she is holding something that looks like a book.

Now, every other time the Losties have burried someone, they have put them in a shroud (which is a gross waste of their already meager resources, but that's what they have done), so that alone leads me to believe that this scene is only supposed to make us believe they are burying a body, and they'll somehow eplain it away.

But lets say that a white woman does die, and they bury her... who is it? Seeing as Kate is being held by the others, our options are Claire and Nikki, or an unknown cast-away. After glimpsing the book the body is holding, I assume it is Claire and they are burying her with her diary.

Now, seeing as Claire has been the root cause of all of Charlie's near-deaths, if she really is dead, is Charlie now in the clear? Will Desmond stop seeing his death?

It also could make sense that the body was Nikki (who we've always seen wearing blue jean shorts and a tank top). So far, characters have always died during their own flash-back episodes, and this one is hers (and Poopy Paolo's).

I also thought the promo made it look like Sun finds out it was Sawyer who orchestrated her kidnapping (Her saying Jin finding out would leave another dead body- meaning Jin would kill Sawyer). Will Charlie be implicated as well?

Can't wait for next week!

#200. Posted by: sarah c at March 23, 2007 3:04 PM

@ hurling

I drove through Taco Bell for lunch this afternoon but now that I find that my lunch has been defenestrated, I'm not sure I really want to eat it.

#201. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 23, 2007 3:08 PM

I just read the most interesting theory by Doc Jenson (with input from Michael Carter) on Entertainment weekly.com regarding Nikki and Paulo's appearance this season. This is Theory, but just in case, I'm going to tag this:
************ SPOILER************

Then there is the Quantum Leap-ing conjecture of Michael Carter: ''I've got a theory for you which justifies the existence of Lost's own Cousins Oliver. Nikki and Paulo weren't on the island — or on the plane, for that matter — throughout the first two seasons. When Desmond went back in time, he changed something that altered the course of history and caused Nikki and Paulo to board flight 815. Now, they have been [retrofitted] into the history of the island.''

DOC JENSEN SAYS: Michael, I like the way you think — and I'll take it one step beyond. Anyone else notice that Rose and Bernard have been MIA from season 3? Yep: I'm suggesting that because of the ''course correction'' required by Desmond's time traveling, Rose and Bernard never got on the plane, and their seats were filled by Nikki and Paulo. Of course, my theory is contingent on how instantaneously this ''course correction'' takes effect; after all, we did catch a glimpse of Bernard on the beach right after Desmond turned the failsafe key in the season finale last year. Perhaps the upcoming Nikki and Paulo episode — which is said to be similar in structure to ''The Other 48 Days'' and is rumored to have a massive twist — will shed some electromagnetic light on the subject.

*******END SPOILER**********

Something to think about, anyway!

#202. Posted by: sarah c at March 23, 2007 3:20 PM

For those interested, the article I quaoted above was called "Terrible Twosome" and can be found at:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20015197,00.html

Jeff "Doc" Jenson comes up with new and interesting theories every week, I recommend him for a good larf and maybe some good theories.

#203. Posted by: sarah c at March 23, 2007 3:23 PM

For those interested, the article I quoted above was called "Terrible Twosome" and can be found at:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20015197,00.html

Jeff "Doc" Jenson comes up with new and interesting theories every week, I recommend him for a good larf and maybe some good theories.

#204. Posted by: sarah c at March 23, 2007 3:23 PM

@tiffani

Next to the dock where the sub was located, the water wouldn't be very deep. I would think it would be relatively simple for the Others to see if there was wreckage or not.

#205. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 23, 2007 3:25 PM

If you're gonna blog on Lost, you might do well to read the books featured in the show. Third Policeman is very relavant here.

#206. Posted by: dfewfrerfew at March 23, 2007 4:09 PM

ok guys - thanks for the timeline info on Sun. got it - only a couple of weeks preggers. ok next question - what about baby aaron - wasn't he supposed to be evil incarnate? what happened with that storyline. remember the psychic in austrailia that warned her about that???? i've been waiting for him to throw up pea soup and rotate his head 360 !

#207. Posted by: PJ in Paradise at March 23, 2007 4:12 PM

@crispy seaplanes
you may be correct about the depth of the water, and maybe i was over thinking the theory but shouldnt the sub still sink??

#208. Posted by: tiffani at March 23, 2007 4:12 PM

@ PJ in Paradise - I believe the psychic was exposed as a fraud in an Ecko back-story, where his daughter came back from the dead. If I remember correctly.

Which begs the question: who set him up to set up Claire on that fateful flight?

#209. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at March 23, 2007 5:21 PM

For all ya'll who are wondering how Locke and Alex got to the sub w/o being de-brained by the sonic death fence....remember, according to the map Sayid found there are underground tunnels leading out of Bennsylvania. I'm sure that's how they roll!!

LOL @ bcre8ve...first and only time I will see Taco Bell and defenestrated in same sentence.

We will know immediately next episode (unless they spend it all on the beach) if the sub was blown up. The next day they will see if there is any wreckage. If not, the Others will gring tha pain! I say YES, it was.

@ mac - another simple add to the site could be a weekly poll. something like 'Is the sub blown up? Yes or No', 'How will Charlie die?' A. B. C. D., 'Cooper is?' A. B. C. D.

could be a nice add next to the 'how will Charlie die' question that can lead to discussion.

just a suggestion

#210. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 23, 2007 5:26 PM

@Red...Neck...Man "We will know immediately next episode (unless they spend it all on the beach) if the sub was blown up. The next day they will see if there is any wreckage. If not, the Others will gring tha pain! I say YES, it was."

Might not know quite so soon...

***** Potential Spoiler *****
The producers have stated that we will not see Locke and his dad for about 5 weeks when their story will lead to the season finale. So I wonder if we will be returning to the beach for a while?
***** End Potential Spoiler *****

#211. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 23, 2007 5:50 PM

@kilorooster

re: I find it interesting that "bring me the man from Tallahassee" means gag and tie up Cooper and stuff him in the hold.

When Ben says "bring me the man from Tallahassee", Locke is hiding in the closet with Alex.

When Locke is brought to see Cooper, who knows how much time Ben has had to prepare? Maybe hours? Maybe minutes? If Cooper is indeed the man from Tallahassee, (and I think he is) Ben would have had time to do anything with him (tie him up, gag him) before bringing Locke over.

Is Cooper for real, or is he Smokey? I guess we will find out in time?

re: Locke and his relationship with the island

At the least, now I know that Locke isn't just a crazy cracker who thinks the island is talking to him! The conversation with Ben confirmed that there is something special with the island...

Awesome episode!

#212. Posted by: shikotee at March 23, 2007 6:45 PM

DID anyone else hear this?????

when tom was banbing on hte door he said "dad im coming in." is there anyway ben could be toms dad as well...and i dont believe that ben is alex dad because danielle said that she wrecked on hte island and they took her baby away from her...so tell me what you think!

#213. Posted by: Am at March 23, 2007 7:12 PM

That may have been Richard saying that, not Tom.

#214. Posted by: snowstream at March 23, 2007 8:39 PM

Dakota had a good point - how do the Others NOT know about the button? That's hard to believe.

So... what if they DO?

Imagine this. Ben's whole motive is to keep people on the island, right?

So he goes to the Hatch, mind-screws Locke into thinking the button was useless. (Remember when he typed in the numbers, but lied and said he didn't?) And then Ben gets to be safely far away when Locke destroys the place.

Only problem is - Ben couldn't have counted on Desmond showing up to turn the failsafe key. Solution: Ben didn't have to know precisely what would happen. But he knew enough to guess it would do what he needed.

Carry this theory a bit further -- Ben could have discovered it was Desmond's discharge that brought down 815, and solving that mystery (plus figuring out how to USE the info) took him about a month and a half. At which point, Ben heads for the Hatch.

Nearly everything else Ben's said and done since, has been misdirection:

- acting surprised on the pier, during the event
- acting casual on the pier, after the event
- sending Klugh & Mikhail to the Flame to no use
- saying "the anomaly" to make Locke think he was ignorant of it (btw, what did Ben call it when talking to Jack? He didn't have to be as careful, because Jack still doesn't know the Hatch blew up, does he?)

I can't see any huge holes in this theory, yet.

And what of Ben's medical reasons for going to the Hatch? He trusted Jack's skills enough to know Jack could do the surgery without much technology.

Think about it, y'all...

Ben didn't only trick Locke into blowing the Sub - Ben tricked Locke into blowing the Hatch, too!

Which ALSO tells us WHY Ben wants to keep Locke around. As Cooper knows, Locke is very easy to manipulate! (Even the police-kid fooled him, at the commune.)

So that's the theory.

And, btw, I think 90% of what Ben told Locke in this Episode was just lies.

We shall see...

#215. Posted by: Herobill at March 23, 2007 8:49 PM

Oh, also:

Ben has known for a while the Sub couldn't come back. So when he showed Jack the World Series tape, and offered to send him home...

That offer, too, had a secret motive for Ben. He wanted the Sub gone, to keep people trapped on his island.

#216. Posted by: Herobill at March 23, 2007 9:06 PM

@ Am - I thought he said "Ben, I'm coming in."

#217. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at March 23, 2007 9:08 PM

@ Gator Gal - ..."those with the most vivid imaginations would be the most powerful, right? And who does this apply to more than CHILDREN!"

That would make perfect sense! I think you're right.

#218. Posted by: Batteries Included at March 23, 2007 9:27 PM

@becre8ve LOL

Your food would only be defenestrated from Taco Bell if you had to rush through the drive through.

#219. Posted by: kilorooster at March 23, 2007 10:05 PM

Tom clearly says..."Ben are you awake?"

I like the dynamic between the Locke fans and those who despise him. Some have said Locke is weak because he is easliy manipulated and has allowed himself to be caught and locked up by the others. Dont forget how good John is at getting HIS way too. He got boone to dig the hatch and go up into the plane. He got help blowing up the hatch cover. He got help imploding/exploding the hatch itself. We arent totally sure how much manipulation happened at The Flame. He got away with killing Mikhail. He left Kate and Sayid to go get Ben and ultimately to blow "something" up at the end of a dock. Locke has gotten done whatever he sought since he's been on the island.

#220. Posted by: kilorooster at March 23, 2007 10:24 PM

I do not think that it was Locke falling in Hurley's flashback. If I remember correctly he was in a skyscraper. I think was way higher than eight floors up. Wait, he would have to be below the eighth floor if it was Locke. I stand by my contention that it is definitely not Locke.

@ Joe Pike - "John seems to intuitively know his way around the sub, having no trouble locating where the light switch is. To me this indicates that he has some knowledge of subs and would be able to figure out how to pilot it pretty quickly."

I totally caught the light switch thing too. I was thinking, Man, if I were in that sub I wouldn't know where the light switches were with the same amount of ease that he just portrayed. He was moving too efficiently through the sub, not fumbling around. He must have had some sort of prior sub/ship training. Maybe he was in the Navy.

#221. Posted by: Batteries Included at March 23, 2007 10:50 PM

I know I'm addicted to lost and this post, but can someone tell me what this line means?
Locke to Ben "if you had any idea what this place really was.....you wouldnt be puttin chicken in your refridgerator."

#222. Posted by: kilorooster at March 23, 2007 11:30 PM

and then the very next time we seen Ben he is putting the chicken back in the fridge. Any of you deep thinkers read anything into this??

Side notes:

Did anyone else think Alex was somewhat attractrive in this ep?

Also, when John came back from the sub dripping wet he no longer had his backpack. I really hope he didnt blow up Mr. Eko's Jesus stick.

#223. Posted by: kilorooster at March 23, 2007 11:41 PM

@kilorooster: Alex is a very attractive girl, & the people responsible for casting did a great job selecting the actresses playing Alex & Danielle to resemble each other. (Unless, of course, one or the other or both are wearing wigs.)

Re the chicken in the fridge: I'm not sure what we were supposed to think of the shot from the back of the fridge when Ben put the chicken away (he should have covered it better; leaving the foil up at the edges will allow the chicken to dry out). Maybe it was just an opportunity to light Ben's face w/a fridge light bulb for some cool effects. ; ) I did notice a can of Dharma beer in there as well.

#224. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 24, 2007 12:48 AM

-About those questioning Locke's initial scene: they did say at the end of their conversation that depression can be temporary, especially since he is no longer in therapy


-Am I mistaken or have all the personifications of Smokey been outdoors (Eko's brother, the horse, etc)? If so, I don't really think Locke's father is a form of Smokey.


-It was making me crazy while watching the episode how often these guys shake hands and trust the line "I give you my word" from a known con man.... (Locke with Ben, Locke with his father, Jack with Ben) I mean, c'mon guys!


-But I must be actually making a connection with the show and the writers, because I actually knew that Locke's father would be in the room-- I called it just before they opened the door.


*******SPOILER ALERT*********
I read somewhere that there would be funerals during the remainder of the season (plural). And while watching the previews in slow-mo, it appears to me that it is Nikki who is dead (and being thrown into a dirt grave)

#225. Posted by: erinb at March 24, 2007 2:26 AM


one more thing..

When Ben recited Locke's life history he never mentioned Locke's stay at the colony. So perhaps he isn't as knowing after all and I think John Locke knows that.

#226. Posted by: amelia at March 24, 2007 3:49 AM

Wow. Lost is on a roll, and I think it's safe to say there won't be any "Tricia Tanaka" episodes in the near future. It seems we've turned a corner, and I think (and hope) it's a full sprint to the finish from here.

Amazing review, Mac. My favorite quotes:

"Because I'm in a wheelchair, and you're not," Ben says, his eyes bulging to bug-like proportions.

"I'm sure that's what they told you," Sayid says quietly. "And after you meet her, you'll wish you were dead because, good lord, that woman is ripe."

#227. Posted by: James at March 24, 2007 11:22 AM

Sub Theory:
No one can live the "island" by boat or raft. That's why Ben gave Michael and Walt the boat; the inference was that they'd go around in circles and be forced back to the island. That's how the raft survivors returned to the beach.
Has anyone considered that the "island" may actually be under the ocean? The island is a giant snowglobe underwater station with the illusion of the tropics, sky and horizons. Since we believe that Smokey can create matter from people's memories, why not just scale up that theory for the entire island construct.
Only a few people know the truth about the island. Ben is one; he knows the only way he can control people is with the promise that people can leave the captivity of the island. The only way out is through a submarine.

#228. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2007 12:01 PM

@ Sarah C - Your theory about Rose and Bernard blows my mind. I'm hoping something like that is true because that would be awesome. How would you explain Sawyer's comment to Nikki though?

#229. Posted by: meg at March 24, 2007 12:07 PM

just wondering, maybe this isn't important BUT......

....Locke called Ben by his name, "Ben". Not Henry Gale. When did Locke know his name was Ben???

Did I miss something? Please correct me if I'm wrong because I just noticed this on Tivo and it's bee bugging me since.

#230. Posted by: jonlocke at March 24, 2007 12:27 PM

In relation to Locke and his father, I have believed since season two that Lockes Father is also the real Sawyer. As is the one that james ford took his name from.

He is a con man. It fits for me.

Now if i am right will anyone buy me a pint?

#231. Posted by: Adam Loomis at March 24, 2007 3:28 PM

LENNY: You used those numbers to play the lottery?
HURLEY: Uh, yeah.
LENNY: Well, you shouldn't have done that. YOU'VE OPEN THE BOX
HURLEY: I what?
LENNY: Ah, you shouldn't have used those numbers.
HURLEY: Why not?
LENNY: It doesn't stop. You've got to get away from those numbers. You've got to get far, far away.
[Lenny is freaking out and an orderly comes over to calm him down.]
ORDERLY: Alright, hey, hold on. Lenny, Lenny. Calm down. Lenny.
LENNY: Do you hear? No, don't you understand? You've got to get away from it or it won't stop.
ORDERLY: Try and calm down.
HURLEY: Wait a second, I need some answers.
ORDERLY: Sir, you need to step away.
HURLEY: Those numbers, where'd you get them?
LENNY [being dragged by the orderly]: Sam Toomey. He heard them.
HURLEY: Who's Sam Toomey?
LENNY: He heard them in Kalgoorlie. It's a town where he used to work.
HURLEY: It's a town where?
LENNY: In Australia. Oh, god.

Her is a box reference from way back when we found out how Hurley got the numbers to win the Lotto. Means alot more now then it did then.

#232. Posted by: Dakota at March 24, 2007 4:20 PM

AWESOME catch, Dakota! Kudos to you!

#233. Posted by: Vikki at March 24, 2007 4:37 PM

I liked that theystaged the camera shot up the hatch of the sub as Locke flipped back the lid. It was the same angle used when he opened the lid off Desmond's hatch. Did anyone see the numbers anywhere on the sub?

#234. Posted by: Jess at March 24, 2007 7:27 PM

@ weh - interesting underwater globe theory.

@ Dakota - that is an amazing catch!

Just watched the episode again on the web and Locke's answer to their predicament re: Jack in Losteria at the beginning: "First time I saw Jack"... yadda... "saving people"... yadda... "whatever"... yadda... "he must have a good reason."
This played into Locke's plan to get to Ben but I bet it wasn't as manipulative as it seemed. I bet Locke meant every word and has total, dare I say, faith in Jack’s motivation.

I really hope Smokey doesn’t turn out to be the autistic kid from St Elsewhere.

#235. Posted by: Dr. Bologna at March 24, 2007 9:13 PM

Not sure if anyone mentioned this WAY too much to read
but do you think smokey also appeared as jacks/claires dad in that episode?

#236. Posted by: Phil Zoop at March 25, 2007 4:24 AM

Best Episode. Loved every bit of it.This really IS lost.
@Mac The Hamster dialogue was really funny

Btw love ur reviews mac, really tongue-in-cheek and with your own personal flair.
Im a new visitor of this site and it really is the best place to come after watching LOST. Period.

#237. Posted by: Andrew is LOST at March 25, 2007 5:34 AM

@ Alaïs_Longthought: I believe they showed Ben calmly putting the chicken back in the fridge to show how comfortable he was with the way his encounter with Locke turned out. He was not worried and didn't have the need to contact security because he did want Locke to blow up the sub so he looked good in front of his peeps.

Another perfect analysis by me!!! Sweet!

#238. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 25, 2007 12:22 PM

This is my first post so I should start by saying that I love the recaps. Mac, you are so funny that I laugh out loud every week when I read your review. To all the other posters: man, nothing gets by you guys - you really make the review complete.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had an idea why Tom is being so nice to Jack. When he let Jack in to see Kate, he told him to be careful because people were listening. Did I miss something? Why would he warn Jack? If Jack was up to something, wouldn't Tom and the Others want to know about it?

#239. Posted by: callie at March 25, 2007 12:28 PM

@itsiph - I think you nailed it, that Cooper was one of the Tailies; he was probably in the first group the Others kidnapped.

Also, I think Ben's talk of the 'magic box' was just to mess with Locke. There is no box.

I still maintain that the Others are former Dharma. Otherville was originally the housing for the support and maintenance staff. About 16 years ago, the Dharma scientists realized Dharma was up to no good; they teamed up with the Otherville residents to sabotage the Dharma Initiative. They maintained the illusion to Dharma that the initiative was continuing undisturbed by pushing the button in the Swan hatch.

It's possible Ben manipulated Locke into blowing up the Flame. Ben wanted the beacon destroyed - it may mean the end of the Dharma supply drops, but also means that Dharma can't come to investigate.

Danielle is a Dharma scientist who still believes in the Dharma mission. She wants to get the word out to Dharma that it has failed. I don't think there is really a group of 'hostiles' - unless Danielle is the last survivor of this group.

I'm not sure about Desmond. Maybe he used the race as a cover to come and investigate the island on Penny's behalf - she found some incriminating evidence in her father's study behind the scotch.

#240. Posted by: Solost at March 25, 2007 12:33 PM

It's kind of interesting that Locke's dad's actions left Locke helpless in a chair and now Locke's dad sits in from of him helpless in a chair .

#241. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 25, 2007 2:59 PM

I refute the idea some have put forth that Cooper was a tailie. John was too surprised to see his dad on the island. As good a conman as he is, I doubt he was hiding on the back of the same flight without Locke knowing it.

#242. Posted by: kilorooster at March 25, 2007 3:23 PM

Lovin the recaps on here.

I really have a feeling that at the end of this whole show, the losties will be separated into 2 groups, as before, and it will end with a shot of Kate and Sawyer (or most of the losties) seeing a plane crashing overhead. Locke will then appear out of a house and order them off to be a part of the group - and it all starts again...

Can't quite figure out in my head how that will happen at the moment though.

As for Cooper, judging by the look in his eyes, he has also been brought to the island by Ben - just to mess with Lockes mind.

So glad its getting good again after too many "is that it?" episodes.

#243. Posted by: Taoski at March 25, 2007 7:00 PM

anyone consider Locke's dad to be the head honcho of the others? And then he, Ben and the rest of the others are conning Locke into beieveing his dad's being held captive?!!? wow what a scenario.

#244. Posted by: CanucksFan at March 25, 2007 8:09 PM

That would be twisted, CanuksFan.

#245. Posted by: Batteries Included at March 26, 2007 1:05 AM

Well, it would be a twist if Locke's father was in the tail section. Remember Locke was immobile in his seat so there is a good change that he was not seen by Locke. On a plane like that hundreds of people board you do not always get to see all the faces while boarding. It would be a twist because we are all trying to figure out how he came to be on the island and we are mostly talking about Smokey or the Box but not about the obvious. It is only an idea, we will have to see...

Last few days I have watched the first episodes of Season 2 on DVD and in some of the scenes one can see a guy that resembles Paolo, he is one of the many people hanging around (love to have that job) on the beach or in the caves. Not sure if that is actually him or if the creators choose Paolo (who looks like that guy) as one of the guys that has been on the island from the beginning.

Locke clearly has his own agenda. If you remember they agree to circle the house that Jack entered but he clearly "sold out" on Kate and Sayid. I also find that Locke is the one person that has most changed since he got onto the island and I do not only mean physically. Up to that point he was your average Joe, avg jobs and gullible. Although his stint at the farm needs to be explained but other than that your normal guy. He is actually more normal that the doctor, the lottery man, the fugitive, the con man, the formed B-Celebrity, etc. Now on the island he became a changed man, a leader, a man of strong beliefs.... hmmmm... I do not know what all this means (and I would like to know why an "average" Joe carries an excellent collection of high quality hunting knives, can't only be for a trip to the outback) but I believe that Locke will be much more significant than he has appeared to be.

So long...

#246. Posted by: itsiph at March 26, 2007 4:16 AM

Hi there,especially all you regulars who have entertained me for the past few years. Mac, I love reading your reviews. There's always something in there that I missed.

So, Locke.... Foster parents, an estranged Mother who suggested he was a special baby! An island that he recovered on. The constant references to black and white with him. And now this episode with him and Ben, where he gets the white meat because Ben has had all the dark meat. Then we have references to twins, cloning and medical island experiments.

So I have this idea...Locke was born on the island through some sort of genetic experiment where his twin brother stayed on the island and he was farmed out to foster parents. Could good old Benry be that twin? I think so. It makes sense the refs to the island curing one and not the other. Both having been in a wheelchair. Ben saying Locke is important to him.

Then there's the part where his Dad, just so happens to be there aswell. I reckon Cooper is one of the main men. I also noticed he was drinking the same expensive MacAllan as Widmore in his apartment. Maybe they went to the same gentlemans club!

Anyway sorry my thoughts are so late.

Kind regards
Jim

#247. Posted by: Jim at March 26, 2007 8:06 AM

Interesting snow globe theory--however if the island is underwater, how did a plane crash there and a sailboat land Desmond there.......?

#248. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 26, 2007 8:32 AM

Locke's Daddy Dearest was not a Tailie and was not on the plane. There's only so many stretches the show can make...and to never ever have shown Coop in any plane flashback or in the main Tailie episode would be too much of a stretch. (Yeah yeah, I know they did that with N&P, but that's another reason why they can't do that with anyone else!) I really think Ben intentionally brought Coop to the island, or Coop was somehow brought through this 'magic box' idea.

RE: PJ in Paradise-
"what about baby aaron - wasn't he supposed to be evil incarnate? what happened with that storyline. remember the psychic in austrailia that warned her about that???? i've been waiting for him to throw up pea soup and rotate his head 360 !"

I think that even though the psychic was proven to be a 'fake' he really did see something with Claire, and that's why he was so freaked out. His main advice was that the baby needs to stay with and be raised by Claire or else very bad things would happen. When he realized she was determined to give the baby up for adoption he sent her on a plane he knew was going to crash...thinking she and the baby would be killed, thereby eliminating the problem. So the reason Aaron hasn't sported a forked tongue yet is that he is still with and is being raised by Claire.

#249. Posted by: JoePike at March 26, 2007 10:34 AM

Quick comment: there has been some discussion of why Tom seems to being so nice to Jack. Well, I can think of one obvious reason, and that's the fact that he is the only surgeon left on the island. Why not "buddy up" to the guy who might be your only chance to be saved at some point? This island has a lot of gunshot wounds and other misc. problems to contend with. I'd sure prefer to have a doctor on my side. It may be that Tom also gained a grudging respect for Jack after the way he handled the whole surgical procedure. And lastly, let's not forget Tom has seemed to have a soft spot all along for Kate as well. I think it's great that some of the players are NOT just blindly obedient, and have their own opinions and/or motivations. It makes it a lot more interesting to figure out what will happen.

Love the theory that Rose and Bernard have been "replaced", but doesn't it mean that Rose would die now, by not being on the island after all? That is the only part of that theory I dislike.

#250. Posted by: The Duf at March 26, 2007 12:49 PM

I definitely think there will be a Cooper and Sawyer connection somewhere, somehow. It's not by accident that Cooper called himself a "con-man" and he's connected to Tallahassee.

And my guess is that Cooper somehow ended up on the island some other way (hot air balloon, anyone?), and was being held captive by Ben for a reason to be determined at a later date.

I also think the "magic box" is a metaphorical term. Not literally a box that produces whatever you want.

#251. Posted by: Amanda S. at March 26, 2007 1:15 PM

OK, the C4 and the Sub thing - definitely suspicious. Think about it for a minute: how would Locke light the fuse on the C4 if it were underwater??? He didnt set it off by remote control, I'll tell you that. This means that he was in the water for some other reason than to plant the C4. What could it be??????

#252. Posted by: J at March 26, 2007 1:21 PM

@ Amanda S.

What would Cooper be doing in a hot air balloon? To me that question would be more of a mystery than these other theories.

Do you guys think we will ever find out the story behind the real Henry Gale? Why he came to the island? Seems like everyone else has a reason for being there.

#253. Posted by: kilorooster at March 26, 2007 1:42 PM

Maybe the sub is/was moored in a small lake/lagoon within the perimeter microwave fence. Access to the sea is via submerged lava tube - therefore the need for sonar navigation.

The intact sub lurks at the bottom of the lake/lagoon - whereabouts known only by Locke.

Len

#254. Posted by: Len at March 26, 2007 3:07 PM

@Crispy
How other craft (boats, balloons) can get to an underwater island?
Burmuda Triangle effect.

#255. Posted by: welh at March 26, 2007 3:42 PM

Jack has had the 'new' tattoo since the first episode. See below. Admittedly, I had not noticed it so prominently before either.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-208.html

#256. Posted by: BELost at March 26, 2007 4:59 PM

Well...thats about as clear as a snow globe.

#257. Posted by: kilorooster at March 26, 2007 7:19 PM

I really like Rose & Bernard so I hope they are still on the islans and not replaced by so and so like some have suggested! There has to be SOME reason we have not seen them for a long time...

#258. Posted by: Amy at March 26, 2007 9:49 PM

@kilorooster "Well...thats about as clear as a snow globe."

LOL ...and this weeks witty award goes to...

#259. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 27, 2007 8:49 AM

Okay, I know its late to be posting but I have been away from the board for a while. My question relates to all these new theories about Smokey.

Does Smokey still = Cerebrus / Security System in everyone's mind? Remember the black light map -- something about a Cereberus incident and a "catastrophic malfunction of Cereberus system"? If Smokey = Cereberus and there was this catastrophic malfunction that led to a loss of control over the security system, then how the heck is Smokey now materializing as Cooper / Yemi / Doctor Daddy? I just don't see how Smokey can attack & kill Eko one minute and then show up as Cooper gagged in a closet the next as Santa Claus fulfilling wishes for all those with an imagination, if it is some system that has malfunctioned beyond all control as the hatch door suggested.

Either Cerebrus does not = Smokey or the manifestations are occurring another way. MAYBE with some connection to Smokey reading people's past lives, but not as Smokey itself.

@sarah c: thanks for the Doc Jensen post; kind of confirms some suspicions i have had about Paolikki, but took it a lot further.

@meg's ? is still a pertinent one however: if Rose/Bernard were replaced by Paolo/Nikki thru a space time transition, why would Sawyer not have recognized Nikki from before. A man like Sawyer, not going to notice someone as obviously HOT as Nikki? Come on. Heck, she is a lot hotter than Ana Lucia and we all know what happened there. You know if she'd been around from the start, he'd have taken note of her.

@kilo: sorry I could not find a better capture of Jack's forearm tattoo; just confirming that it has always been there since day 1. Here is another not so good photo link from season 3 --
http://tinyurl.com/2vzqtq


Bensylvania -- LOVE IT!!!

#260. Posted by: BELost at March 27, 2007 1:30 PM

@BELost - Maybe they threw that comment in for the viewers (Sawyer's), maybe that's just one of the inconsistencies in the show. I'm not sure, but this theory is one that really intruiges me. I'd like to see that explanation, or one like it. There has to be some reason why those two, boring as they are (maybe they appeal to my parent's generation), haven't been in ANY episode. I think it's major.

#261. Posted by: meg at March 27, 2007 5:20 PM

Oh, I also have been giving some thought time to the "magic box". I think the island itself is the magic box. Maybe I already posted this, can't remember. Yet, everyone seems to see what they seek on the island.


Charlie - freedom from addiction
Claire - Peace, relationship, being with her child
Jack - his dad
kate - freedom
Locke - walking
etc.

#262. Posted by: meg at March 27, 2007 5:23 PM

well we should find out this week. isn''t this the paolo / nikki flashback epi? I haven't seen the previews, but if what I've heard about it are accurate, my money is on Nikki being the one that gets killed...

#263. Posted by: BELost at March 27, 2007 5:24 PM

So the island's magnetic personality could bring down a huge plane thousands of feet in the air travelling very quickly, yet the sub did not budge one inch....not to mention all the other metallic items, of which there are quite a few.......hhhhhmmmmm

#264. Posted by: rich at March 27, 2007 5:42 PM

Can anyone make a correlation between the Losters who've been 'read' by Smokey/the Island then seen manifestations from their past, and the Other's List as in "let Hurley go, he's not on the list"? Seems like the Others are studying this, that's why they know so much about everybody's past.

#265. Posted by: Willie Lo at March 27, 2007 11:20 PM

Sorry for the late post, but I am still wondering what the whole chicken-meat-thing is all about...black and white, all right, but is there a deeper meaning to it? Just a tiny observation: Last nigth, I watched "The Long Con" from Season 2 again. Here´s what Gordy, Sawyer´s parner in crime orders in a bar:
GORDY [to Diane]: "...And could I get a plate of chicken salad -- white meat only --" Pure coincidence, probably. Wouldn´t make too much sense to associate a conman like Gordy with the white = good side, would it?

#266. Posted by: John K at March 28, 2007 5:39 AM

@Len

I finally watched the end of the episode again. I'm starting to swing toward the possibility that he didn't blow the sub. There has to be a reason why they purposely lit and shot the scene in that manner so that the sub (if it was present was not at all visible. There was some debris but nothing that looked like wreckage from a sub. And there has to be a reason why he was all wet. So I'm starting to believe the sub may still be around. I'm anxious to find out how they're going to explain this though. How will the others be fooled when they see there is no wreckage? And why did Locke come back to be recaptured? He probably thought he could sneak back into Losteria and get Kate and Sayid. He wouldn't have been expecting them to be coming down to the dock yet as Jack wasn't supposed to leave until morning. Locke figured he'd be able to get Kate and Sayid and leave before the others knew the sub was gone. as usual the best laid plans have gone awry. Romeo and Juliet were leaving early so Locke got caught before he could complete his mission. Makes sense to me...
I really hope Nikki doesn't buy the big one this week. What an utter waste to have introduced her at all if they're going to kill her off before she does anything...
I kind of hope there is a magic box that is literally a box that gives people what they want. I've got no probalem with something fantastical being brought into the story like that...
Can't wait until 10!

#267. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 28, 2007 8:45 AM

I think some are making too much out of the "Who are you?" comment from Sawyer to Nikki. I took it as one of those snotty remarks you hear the popular kids in high school say to someone not in their clique when they try to join in. Mostly I think it was put in there for the fans of the show wondering who these new people are that keep showing up with the regulars.

#268. Posted by: kilorooster at March 28, 2007 9:48 AM

RE: Jack's "new" tatoo...

It has been there from the begining. It is visible on the beach in epi 1 when Jack takes his shirt off so that Kate can sew him up. Link to follow...

#269. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 28, 2007 10:03 AM

Anyone else think that Ben might be a DeGroot offspring? The picture he had in his house looked an awful lot like Karen holding a small critter. Of course having her picture doesn't automatically make him kin (it could be out of admiration - athough it was in close proxmity to his pictures of Alex - or it might not even be her.)

I think the connection would explain a lot. Ben's leadership position and why the Others are so hesitant to go against him.

#270. Posted by: bcre8ve at March 28, 2007 10:16 AM

@Len....
@Crispy Seaplanes....

I think you are on to something. I was wondering why Locke was all wet, soaked in fact. I think he put the sub on the bottom of the lagoon, swam up and blew up the end of the barge. He would have had to close the sub so water couldn't get into it. Maybe he swam out of a missle tube? There would be no reason for the Others to look for wreckage after seeing the explosion. Even if they had looked for it, it would have sank to the bottom fairly quickly.

I believe the Sub exists!!!

Terry O'Quinn is by far the most underrated actor on television. He is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#271. Posted by: Kimberly at March 29, 2007 11:57 AM

Sorry I am french, I will try to write correct english

- Locke's dad is the guy who made sawyer's father suicide. All characters have a link in the past to eachother.
Jack is claire's brother...now why have they ve been led to the island? It cannot be just an accident can it?

- What about the others losties we never see, are they also linked? remember the black women who had cancer and cured on the island...

- Miracles everywhere, why?

- All main lostie made bad things in the past(sins) (muder, incest, torture, abandon baby, steal, lies...) Still we like them and they seem nice persons. They all had really bad childhood.

- now locke and rousseau are the names of phylosophs in uk and france. rousseau wrote some theory about miracles. Locke about enthropology

- how about the list of Jacob? Who is he (I would trust he is penny's father)

- Is the island giving them a second chance in their life? Are the others there also for this second chance? remember Juliet's exhuband was killed by a car and that she felt guilty for that. Just after that, she decided to go to the island with dharma


- Is locke 's father given a second chance towards his son?

- Ben is Alex's dad, he was then with rousseau in the past. Why is she alone now? Is ben's daughter his second chance?

- Now why is not Alex trying to escape and meeting her boyfriend? Where is he? Why did they try to brainwash him. Is he on the way to rescue Alex, Jack, kate and Sayid? Why does Alex hates her dad? why did she help claire escape the hospital?

- I agree with the fact that the sub it not the other way of leaving. There is the boat that jack and the others took and there is the boat(same one?) that took Mickael away.

- Locke did not destroy the sub for sure. Now why had he always hidden the fact that the island saved his legs to the losties? Why is he so secret. Why does the black women tell the others about her cure, same for sun not telling that her husband cool not have children. If the island is helping everyone, they should share their hopes. Why is everyone telling lies?

- I believe they are all feeling this island is giving them a second chance.
Do they really want leave? Same for the others, do they really want to leave?

- Now you put prisonners or dying people or crazy people (hurley) on an island. You give them the chance to forget the past and rebuild something good, cure...will they accept it? or will they destroy their chances? will they go worse? could be the whole dharma project. Study human's nature.

- Do they really die on the island (boon, his sister, eko, jack's dad...)?

- Is god giving a second chance to the humans to choose the good path.

- Is the monster the evil side of us?
taking eko's life?

- If god has nothing to do,then what influence would magnetism have on the people's brain?

#272. Posted by: Hélène at March 31, 2007 10:27 AM

Sorry I am french, I will try to write correct english

- Locke's dad is the guy who made sawyer's father suicide. All characters have a link in the past to eachother.
Jack is claire's brother...now why have they ve been led to the island? It cannot be just an accident can it?

- What about the others losties we never see, are they also linked? remember the black women who had cancer and cured on the island...

- Miracles everywhere, why?

- All main lostie made bad things in the past(sins) (muder, incest, torture, abandon baby, steal, lies...) Still we like them and they seem nice persons. They all had really bad childhood.

- now locke and rousseau are the names of phylosophs in uk and france. rousseau wrote some theory about miracles. Locke about enthropology

- how about the list of Jacob? Who is he (I would trust he is penny's father)

- Is the island giving them a second chance in their life? Are the others there also for this second chance? remember Juliet's exhuband was killed by a car and that she felt guilty for that. Just after that, she decided to go to the island with dharma


- Is locke 's father given a second chance towards his son?

- Ben is Alex's dad, he was then with rousseau in the past. Why is she alone now? Is ben's daughter his second chance?

- Now why is not Alex trying to escape and meeting her boyfriend? Where is he? Why did they try to brainwash him. Is he on the way to rescue Alex, Jack, kate and Sayid? Why does Alex hates her dad? why did she help claire escape the hospital?

- I agree with the fact that the sub it not the other way of leaving. There is the boat that jack and the others took and there is the boat(same one?) that took Mickael away.

- Locke did not destroy the sub for sure. Now why had he always hidden the fact that the island saved his legs to the losties? Why is he so secret. Why does the black women tell the others about her cure, same for sun not telling that her husband cool not have children. If the island is helping everyone, they should share their hopes. Why is everyone telling lies?

- I believe they are all feeling this island is giving them a second chance.
Do they really want leave? Same for the others, do they really want to leave?

- Now you put prisonners or dying people or crazy people (hurley) on an island. You give them the chance to forget the past and rebuild something good, cure...will they accept it? or will they destroy their chances? will they go worse? could be the whole dharma project. Study human's nature.

- Do they really die on the island (boon, his sister, eko, jack's dad...)?

- Is god giving a second chance to the humans to choose the good path.

- Is the monster the evil side of us?
taking eko's life?

- If god has nothing to do,then what influence would magnetism have on the people's brain?

#273. Posted by: Hélène at March 31, 2007 10:28 AM

In my previous comment, I was wondering who were Ben's parent.
Well if we refer to the Bible
Jacob who founded the communities in Israel, had two sons. One of them was called Benjamin. He was considered as the right side (good) of Jacob.

Now Ben might be on the island to lead this communitee, and give to the chosen people a second chance in their life. A chance to forget their mistakes, suffers in the past and rebuild something good. According to rousseau and Locke's phylosophs, man in human nature and far from civilization should return to goodness. They have 2 opposite theories, one says that man in human nature needs to build a communitee with laws...to keep an order and peace. An the other says that man can leave by himself without rules and be good. Now think about the life of the others and the life of the losties opposite communities. How about Rousseau's choice to live by herself?

#274. Posted by: helene at April 1, 2007 5:34 AM

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#275. Posted by: govokinolij at July 10, 2007 2:25 AM

3-13 - The Man From Tallahassee

Locke's dad is evil,
Jack's rescue aborts, sub blown,
Ben has 'magic box.'

#276. Posted by: Cecil Rose at January 21, 2008 3:48 PM

mif

#277. Posted by: meg at March 23, 2008 8:00 PM