The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Eggtown"

Season 4, Episode 4
Episode Air Date: 02/21/08

Point 1
Kate

Jack
I've always had a problem with Kate's story arc. Her character is fine when she's tucked within the ensemble, but her backstories -- and future flashes -- aren't compelling. The whole good-girl-goes-bad thing is just so ... pedestrian. And the big reveal at the end of this episode didn't have the zip we've come to expect. Speaking of that reveal ...

In the final seconds of "Eggtown" we learn that Jack isn't the only direct descendant of Christian Shephard who makes it off the island. Aaron -- Claire's Aaron -- is adopted by Kate in her post-island life. Aaron is the "him" Kate referred to in "Through the Looking Glass."

I'd like to say no one saw that coming, but truth is a lot of people latched on to the Kate-has-a-kid theory. Granted, it wasn't a blatantly obvious revelation, but it didn't live up to "Lost's" lofty standards.

Nonetheless, the Aaron revelation does bring up a few important questions:

  • What happened to Claire? Is she still on the island? Does she die on the island? How does Kate become Aaron's adoptive mother? Did anyone bother to inform Aaron's real father -- the dude who knocked up Claire -- that his child is alive and well and living in a California suburb?
  • Is Aaron part of the Oceanic Six? If he is -- and if we assume that Ben isn't in that group -- then the roster is almost complete: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron and ???.
  • Does Jack know he's Aaron's uncle? Or, does Jack's reluctance to see Aaron stem from his guilt over abandoning Oceanic 815's remaining castaways?
  • Does Aaron have any idea he was born on a mystical island? Does he have Charlie's family ring? And, most importantly of all, is his skull still shaped like a turnip?
What's odd is that these questions make this episode's future flash seem much more interesting than it actually was. On the surface, the only major thing we learn is that Kate's apparent freedom -- which is something many of us have wondered about -- was achieved when Kate's sick mother was unable to testify against her during a murder-arson-larceny-general-badness trial. The fact that Kate's mom is alive is surprising on its own. She appeared to have one foot planted firmly in the great beyond way back in season one's "Born to Run." (Did ol' smokey line Ma Austin's oxygen tank with magic healing dust?).

Now, there was one part of Kate's future flash that caught my attention, and I think it's worth some discussion. Jack testifies as a character witness at Kate's trial and he spins a story that is one giant lie. Let's examine his testimony:

  • Exhibit A: On Sept. 22, 2004 [true] Kate and Jack were passengers on Oceanic 815 [true], which crash-landed on an island in the South Pacific [true, but he left out that whole Desmond/hatch/button thing].
  • Exhibit B: The marshal who apprehended Kate died in the plane crash [LIE]. Jack never spoke to him [LIE LIE LIE].

  • Exhibit C: Only eight passengers on Oceanic 815 survived the crash [OH MY GOD JACK, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL]. They all landed in the water [TAILIE LIE]. Kate took care of everyone [OH COME ON].
Now, isn't this interesting: According to Jack's account, the Oceanic 6 were originally the Oceanic 8. So, who died? Moreover, why bother "killing off" two people if you're going to lie about the whole incident anyway?

Point 2
Kate

Sawyer

Locke

Ben

Miles
Now we get to the good stuff!

You'll recall that in last week's episode, Sayid swapped Miles -- the Boater/Ghost Whisperer -- for Charlotte. This week, Kate is obsessed with questioning Miles about his knowledge of Kate's past. Kate wants to know what she's in for if/when she leaves the island.

Kate finds Miles locked in a small boathouse down by the remnants of the submarine dock (the one Locke blew up). The two make a deal: Miles will tell Kate everything he knows about her if Kate gets him one minute of time with Ben.

So Kate sets in motion Operation: 60 Seconds With Ben, which plays out in surprisingly easy fashion. Kate brings Miles down into the Other catacombs -- the same underground rooms that once held Locke's evil daddy -- and oversees a one-minute meet-and-greet between the incarcerated Ben and Miles "Let's Make a Deal" Straum.

To Kate and Ben's surprise, Miles uses his precious 60 seconds to ask Ben for ... money? In a bizarre exchange, Miles says he will tell his employer -- the unseen, unknown, super-powered person pursuing Ben -- that Ben is dead, if Ben pays Miles exactly $3.2 million.

Uhhhhh.

Let's think about this: Miles has left his comfy existence as a California-based ghost whisperer to travel to a screwy tropical island just so he can double-cross the omni-person who's searching for Ben? And why does he need $3.2 million? And why does he think Ben has that kind of money?

This is clearly the beginning of something much bigger, but I have no idea where any of it's going.

Because Kate lived up to her end of the bargain, Miles tells her that he and his freighter buddies know Kate is a damn dirty fugitive. So much for a clean re-entry, Katie.

Unfortunately, Miles' time on the island might soon be cut short. Locke catches Kate red-handed and decides to inflict a little frontier justice on Miles: he strings him up in the boathouse and wedges a pin-less grenade into Miles' mouth. If Miles unclenches, he'll be ghost whispering himself. Locke leaves Miles to ponder his options (Option A: tell Locke everything; Option B: Kaboom).

As for Kate ... Locke banishes her from Bennsylvania (soon to be renamed Lockington Gardens). But before she leaves, Kate sneaks off to Sawyer's condo and the two start the groping and the kissing and the whatnot. But this isn't the sex-fest we witnessed in the bear cage. The nookie goes cold when Kate tells Sawyer that she definitely is not pregnant and Sawyer does an end-zone celebration. Kate's maternal instinct is starting to emerge (hence ... Aaron), and she doesn't appreciate Sawyer's reaction. She slaps Sawyer and runs off to the beach before that harlot Juliet digs her Other talons into Jack.

Speaking of the beach ...

Point 3
Jack

Juliet
Jack and Juliet spend the majority of this episode trying to get the satellite phone to work, but someone Jailbreaked the thing and now the latest firmware upgrade turned the whole device wonky (sorry ... iPhone humor).

Late in this episode we learn that the phone itself is working (Charlotte dials an "emergencies only" number and gets through), but something is definitely amiss in Freighter World. Jack, Juliet, Charlotte and Dan learn that the chopper carrying Sayid, Desmond and Frank is way overdue. The helicopter departed the day before, so it should have arrived on the freighter a long time ago.

Judging by next week's previews, the wayward chopper will soon be addressed. But I wonder if we'll get an inside look at the freighter crew. It seems that the two satellite phone operators -- Regina and George -- disappear for long stretches of time. Where are they? What are they doing? And why is everyone wary of George?

Point 4
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "You just totally Scooby-Dooed me, didn't you?" -- Hurley to Kate.
  • Second Best Line: "Enjoy your breakfast." -- Locke to Miles, who's got a grenade shoved in his mouth.

  • Jin must have discovered a set of Rosetta Stone DVDs. Up until this episode, his English skills involved grunts, pointing and occasional monosyllabic answers. But now, he's speaking in full sentences. In a few weeks he'll be organizing Lincoln-Douglas reenactments at the Lockington Gardens gazebo.
  • Something is wrong with Danny Faraday's brain. In a brief exchange, we see Danny and Charlotte working on a memory exercise, and Danny isn't doing too well. This probably dovetails with Dan's flashback scene, which showed him being tended to by some sort of live-in nurse/caretaker.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"The Constant" -- Desmond's future flashes go wacky, which doesn't bode well. Airs Thursday, Feb. 28, 2008 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

In honor of Meg... MIF

I'm a traditionalist

#1. Posted by: bccre8ve at February 21, 2008 11:53 PM

I agree with you Mac...

Kate-centric stories make me cringe!

Weakest episode of the season...

#2. Posted by: shikotee at February 21, 2008 11:56 PM

Many are saying she called the toddler Eric at the end... Folks with CC say the closed caption said "Aaron"

I initially thought I heard Eric too. Then I rewound.

With that blond mop and slurred speech - I was expecting "Charlie".

[check his knuckles for writing]

#3. Posted by: DocH at February 21, 2008 11:56 PM

Another question about Kate/Aaron (ArKat? Kaaron?)...
Does she say that she's her biological mother? Is Jack posing as a father maybe? (they're related after all)

First question I just ask because she seems to be the kind of person that would usurp Claire's motherhood just to gain sympathy from the public.

Second question I ask because Jack is questioned whether he still loves Kate, maybe they went public with an Island romance.

Timelines for "Jack is the father" wouldn't add-up maybe.

#4. Posted by: Daniel Rivera at February 21, 2008 11:58 PM

Wow wow wow Great review/episode Mac!

Great Quotes

"I'm not moving in with you James" Kate

"I believe you know my roommate." Sawyer

"I know it in a box but ah, its pretty dam good wine. I tasted it" Sawyer(to Meg)

"How could you resist with all that I'll keep you safe stuff?" Sawyer

According to Jack's account, the Oceanic 6 were originally the Oceanic 8. So, who died? MAC Very good question. WHose family's would Oceanic airlines want off there backs? Suns?

Kate steals Aaron VS Claire dies(for real) Kate steps in? Which side are you on? I'm on steal for the moment. No, Claire is totally dead.

The Helo crashes onto Michael's boat that he is still circling the island on? (Just wanted to mention no Michael. When will he pop up?)

ABNTALW? any body notice that Aaron looked wierd?( dont want to have to be the meany) But he's super island freaky. In a I just scored a Touch-downsSyndrome kinda way. Sorry had to say it, might need to veiw it again.

Season 4 rules. Night all. I know long had to get them out to sleep.

#5. Posted by: Dakota at February 21, 2008 11:58 PM

Congrats to all you who called Kate's "he" as baby Aaron! There's been some pretty wacky theories discussed on this blog, but sometimes they hit the nail on the head!

This ep had a few scattered clues to place it in the time line, but nothing very definitive. I thought Aaron looked about 2 or 3, but I didn't get a real good look. That would place these scenes sometime in late 2006-up until now. I wonder if the trial happened before or after the drunken bearded Jack scenes. Has Jack not yet started to want to go back to the island or is he past all that?

Kate's mom mentioned something about the doctors telling her she had 6 months to live for the past 4 years. Anyone remember how long ago it was when Kate visited her in the hospital?

So Aaron is a member of the Oceanic 6. That just sparked a thought... Kate wasn't pregnant on the plane, and yet, (one would assume), when they were rescued she claimed to be mother to a baby. So to make that story work, they would have to have been on the island long enough for her to get pregnant, give birth, and have it be a few months old by the time they got rescued. Of course if they were on the island that long, Aaron would look much older than he ought to be, given that story. Difficult one to explain, but they did it some how.

I didn't realize that Lock’s father was locked up in Ben’s basement. His cottage is more than it seems from the outside, isn’t it?

Lastly and most importantly, if Lock used the last of the eggs, why did he kill the chicken?

#6. Posted by: Frogurt at February 21, 2008 11:59 PM

WOW! Great episode and great recap Mac!
I never miss this, you are fantastic!

#7. Posted by: Dragonfly at February 21, 2008 11:59 PM

Outstanding, as usual, Mac. Is “60 Seconds with Ben” like “Seven Minutes in Heaven”? Well, maybe for Meg ;)

I absolutely agree about Kate episodes being “meh.” Some good information revealed, but overall, not as exciting for me as the last few.

And now we have to speculate about two more Oceanic survivors. We better get to work! Who has a theory? :)

Did Kate’s mom say she’s been on her deathbed for four years? How does that fit into our timeframe of how long the Losties were on the island?

Anyone familiar with the Stephen King novel “Dreamcatcher”?

Duddits, who has Down syndrome and is an eternal child, is the Dreamcatcher who has psychic powers that he passes on to his childhood friends, to prevent the alien and evil Mr. Gray from colonizing the planet through infection with a virus. The aliens, and those infected with the virus who survive, communicate telepathically. Also starring a psychotic army Colonel named Kurtz.

“I am the Eggman!” (from the Beatles song I Am the Walrus) was the phrase used by one of the boys, before he sets fire to a cabin to try to kill the alien.

First thing I thought of when I saw Aaron. Sorry, if I got any of the details wrong, it's been awhile since I read the book.

Just one other comment for now...

ANTP – well, not really a picture, but cardboard cut-outs on Aaron’s bedroom wall of what looked like 4-toed alien robots?

#8. Posted by: Clementine at February 22, 2008 12:00 AM

Thanks for the recap, and a good laugh before calling it a night, mac. Miles: 'he'll be ghost whispering himself'!

#9. Posted by: JT at February 22, 2008 12:07 AM

Another great line: "If Hurley knows, everyone knows"

Also James' reference to Montezoma as hurley flushed.

I have mixed feelings about the episode. I feel a little cheated in that the lack of Kate's mother's testimony could have freed her from the charges of her step dad's murder but what about the other charges? Her mother wasn't a witness (or at least not the only witness)to her other crimes.

On the other hand, I really wasn't looking forward to a protracted Perry Mason-esque trial. There is too much more going on in the series right now to drag that out. But I feel like they could have done a better job explaining her freedom. It was a little below what I have come to expect from the writers.

#10. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 12:08 AM

About the Oceanic Six "killing off" two people in their story... here's my theory of what they said after being rescued...

1. They crashed in the water
2. Eight people survived, the rest of the plane went to the bottom of the ocean
3. A "3-months-pregnant" Kate plays Mother Theresa with everyone
4. Two die from their injuries or otherwise.
5. They get rescued and *bring* those two dead with them (hence they are the Oceanic Six that came back, with two other survivors that died later).

Then, we need to ask: who were those two? Probably the public knows that they survived but later died.

#11. Posted by: Daniel Rivera at February 22, 2008 12:08 AM

long long time lurker, posting for the first time...

if aaron is one of the oceanic 6, and there were, in jack's story, 8 survivors when the plane crashed, then actually, they're acknowledging that 3 people died between crash and rescue... am eager to hear more about that!

mac, thanks for all the work on getting these up for our reading and discussing pleasure!

#12. Posted by: magsgirl at February 22, 2008 12:08 AM

@Clementine #8

Great minds think alike about Aaron and Down syndrome. You just backed up your though nicer.

#13. Posted by: Dakota at February 22, 2008 12:08 AM

long long time lurker, posting for the first time...

if aaron is one of the oceanic 6, and there were, in jack's story, 8 survivors when the plane crashed, then actually, they're acknowledging that 3 people died between crash and rescue... am eager to hear more about that!

mac, thanks for all the work on getting these up for our reading and discussing pleasure!

#14. Posted by: magsgirl at February 22, 2008 12:09 AM

So....

Why called "Eggtown"?

Is this just a reference to Locke cooking up the last eggs, smashing a plate, and choking the chicken in frustration?

Read into that last line as you will....

#15. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 12:10 AM

Aaron is not a member of the Oceanic 6, as he was not born at the time, and was thus never a passenger. As Kate was a prisoner on that flight, they were aware that she was not visibly pregnant...

#16. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 12:15 AM

I'm not sure Aaron or Eric is Claire's Aaron. Why would she be so excited to be around Claire's Aaron?

Is it possible that her son IS her son and the father is Sawyer. Sawyer eventually dies for Kate/Jack/whoever and THAT is why Jack doesn't want to be around her. He is Sawyer's son, and he is dead.

I think the producer's said these flash forwards are about a year and half after present?

#17. Posted by: Nathan at February 22, 2008 12:18 AM

I know MAC caught this - just didn't have time/room to discuss. aka Hurley’s video pick at the bachelor pad with Sawyer. Xanadu.

In mythos… Xanadu is a mysterious city concealed deep within the Himalayan Mountains. It lies in a jeweled valley of unparalleled splendor. Shrouded in myth and believed only to be fiction, the truth about this beautiful place has been veiled from the eyes of the known world for thousands of years.

Only recently has the truth of the fabled city been discovered. Monastery journals, over two hundred years old tell the story of a grand expedition into the Himalayas. The participants of this journey stumble across the sacred valley of Xanadu and record the events in great detail. It is from the story contained within these journals that began the search for further evidence of Xanadu’s existence.

During the search, Xanadu’s pervasiveness throughout history becomes frighteningly apparent.

Within the walls of Xanadu lies a garden of exquisite beauty, that holds beautiful works of art, on display for all its citizens to enjoy.

Excavation suggests the origin of Xanadu is linked to the mysterious destruction of an ancient Sumerian city.

A series of ancient scrolls depicts the legend of a Demon Goddess.

A Codex (book) is retrieved and transcribes writings found on an Obelisk.

An ancient manuscript sheds …. it goes on.

(says alot about pillars in the forest, temple, four toed statues, Jacob, ancient natives, etc...)

#18. Posted by: DocH at February 22, 2008 12:19 AM

Found a screen shot of the alien-robot people on Aaron's bedroom wall. Looks like they only have three toes (and three fingers).

http://tinyurl*com/2mqeha

(replace the * with a period)

#19. Posted by: Clementine at February 22, 2008 12:20 AM

@Frogurt: Tonight's flash-forward was probably before the Bearded Jack episode. Everything in the conversation from last season's finale points to that (I'm tired of lying).

I'm wondering what happens to change Jack's mind about going back. What send him over the edge? Is it the death of Ben (or whoever it really is in the coffin)? It doesn't seem so, since he was a drunk by the time that happened.

I thought tonight was great, and I can't wait for next week.

#20. Posted by: James at February 22, 2008 12:21 AM

aaron may or may not be considered a member of the oceanic six. he was present -- in utero -- on the flight. and we've had a trend of learning about a new member of the "six" pretty regularly. and we're still not aware of how they are characterizing the group. (if someone remembers, please remind me-- did previews for this week indicate that we would learn the identity of another of the O6 this week, or was that in the previews for "the economist"?

all that being said, it will be interesting to hear who they say died -- and how -- over time.

#21. Posted by: magsgirl at February 22, 2008 12:23 AM

Survivors seven and eight are Nikki and Paolo.

#22. Posted by: James at February 22, 2008 12:31 AM

Anyone think Claire and the rest are being held captive by Ben so Sayid is forced to kill for Ben to keep them alive.

This also connects with Jack being depressed thinking he made a mistake and wants to go back to the island because of his instinctive nature of saving people.

#23. Posted by: kd at February 22, 2008 12:40 AM

Re 17: I think it is definitely Claire's Aaron, that's why all this bonding was going on between Kate and Claire on the island and maybe why Jack is reluctant to see her at home with Aaron. It's a reminder of the people they left behind for whatever reason. I think this also implies that Claire is still alive, I can't imagine Jack that upset about Aaron being adopted by Kate if Claire was dead and Aaron was an orphan. Jack can lie on the witness stand, but seeing Aaron without his mother is just too difficult for him.

#24. Posted by: unladenswallow at February 22, 2008 12:41 AM

Remember that in Season 1's "Raised by Another" that the psychic told Claire that her baby must not be raised by anyone but her? He later seemed to change his mind*, sat up an adoption in LA, and booked her on flight 815. (He told her it had to be that flight and no other.)

*It is hinted that the psychic did not change his mind but rather knew of the impending crash of flight 815 and therefore set Claire up to be stranded so that she would have no choice but to raise the child herself.

In the same epi, Claire has a dream in which Locke says to her, "He is your responsibility, but you gave him away." (That is when Locke has the one black and one white eye - @CORROMO #371 on last week's epi).

It is interesting that Claire is warned, both by Locke (in her dream) and by the psychic, that she must raise her baby herself or else she will release a great evil on the world.

I don't know what it all means but it seems to tie in.

#25. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 12:46 AM

@15/shikotee "Why called "Eggtown"? Is this just a reference to Locke cooking up the last eggs, smashing a plate, and choking the chicken in frustration?"

Eggtown? How about Locke-t Town?

Or in reference to John's predicament and his transformation from passive to quite the aggressive animal (the whole grenade in the mouth thing...) I guess you could say, "Welcome to Locke-t Town, Home of the Locke Mess Monster"

#26. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 12:59 AM

*** m a c s l o c u m ***
*** enemy of sleep ***

o--------

Poor Locke. Ben can get his goat at ANY time.

#27. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 22, 2008 1:18 AM

Great recap. Thanks for all your work over the last few years!

The question that is bothering me tonight is that we are four episodes into the season and we haven't seen any sign of the "others" (all that weren't killed in the last episode of season 3)(Richard Alpert, etc.). In addition to the others this would include the plane crash victims that were kidnapped in season 1 and had become others in training. If I remember correctly it seemed like they were all sort of migrating to some new place on the island towards the end of season 3.

They have to surface at some point don't they? It doesn't seem like they could be written out of the story?

Any ideas?

Thanks.

#28. Posted by: Mike at February 22, 2008 1:18 AM

Great recap. Thanks for all your work over the last few years!

The question that is bothering me tonight is that we are four episodes into the season and we haven't seen any sign of the "others" (all that weren't killed in the last episode of season 3)(Richard Alpert, etc.). In addition to the others this would include the plane crash victims that were kidnapped in season 1 and had become others in training. If I remember correctly it seemed like they were all sort of migrating to some new place on the island towards the end of season 3.

They have to surface at some point don't they? It doesn't seem like they could be written out of the story?

Any ideas?

Thanks.

#29. Posted by: Mike at February 22, 2008 1:18 AM

I think Jack does find out that Claire is his sister. She's probably the one in the coffin. It does explain why he gets so upset.

#30. Posted by: Guy at February 22, 2008 1:21 AM

aaron is not part of the Oceanic Six...look it up, i've found a spoiler that says who it is, though don't want to give it on here...

#31. Posted by: Marisa at February 22, 2008 1:24 AM

you guys arent doing your research either..the person in the coffin..their name starts with a "J" thats all we know..and that it's a man. Look it up.

#32. Posted by: marisa at February 22, 2008 1:26 AM

The interchange between Locke and Ben at the beginning was great. Here is Locke, the same guy who last year accused Ben of cheating by using a refrigerator is now using it to make Ben breakfast. Ben knows immediately that Locke is lost again...more lost than he has ever been.

The mental tortures that Ben puts Locke through are riveting.

#33. Posted by: chris at February 22, 2008 1:31 AM

As soon as Hurley made the Scooby Doo comment, I knew it would show up here as "best line." I wonder if the writers throw some of these lines in just because they know you'll highlight them, Mac--another way the fan base could impact the show.

I didn't read all the comments from last week, so didn't know there'd been speculation about Kate's child. But as soon as it was mentioned that she had a son, I looked at my wife and said, "I bet it's Claire's baby, not really hers." As I'm used to being pretty gobsmacked by the reveals on the show, I suppose my on-the-money guess goes to show that this wasn't the best moment. Or maybe I *am* getting better, as I suspected Sayid was working for Benry before that was revealed last ep.

#34. Posted by: dogsbody at February 22, 2008 1:36 AM

@28/Mike

"we are four episodes into the season and we haven't seen any sign of the "others" ...(Richard Alpert, etc.)... They have to surface at some point don't they? It doesn't seem like they could be written out of the story?
Any ideas?"

**** Mild Spoiler ****

Ben sent the Others (including Richard) to the "Temple." The producers stated that each season focuses on specific stories. Season 3 was the Others and Season 4 is the relationship between the Losties and the Freighter Folks. They will be getting back to the Others and the Temple story arc later.

It is interesting how real life affects the series. Originally Richard was not to be in Season 4 due to the actor's (Nestor Carbonell) commitment to the series "Cain." Cain was canceled this week which, assumable frees Nester to appear on Lost. If it had not been for the strike, Season 4 would have already filmed and wrapped. Due to the strike, however, it is now possible for Richard to return this season. It will be interesting to see whether or not this will happen.

#35. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 1:42 AM

I love the Dharma coffee mugs and boxed wine! ;-)

#36. Posted by: Speedmaster at February 22, 2008 1:47 AM

Was Charlotte using the cards to test Dan's memory or his psychic abilities?

#37. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 1:51 AM

--I could've sworn I heard Jack referred to as a "hero" more than once during the episode...

--It's absolutely Claire's Aaron. And, to be as un-PC as possible, yes he does look down with the syndrome. He doesnt sound like it when he says "Hi Mommy" to Kate though...

--Clearly, the poor fools on the helicopter didnt make it to the ship. Weird time warp, black hole theorists bring it on.

Thats what i got. Not very memorable episode. I wanted to care about the Miles/Ben thang, but it wasnt made very interesting.

xoxo
-chopkins

#38. Posted by: chopkins at February 22, 2008 1:55 AM

It will be interesting to see how Michael and Walt fit into all of this. Apparently they aren't a part of the Oceanic 6. Are they the other two that Jack referred to on the witness stand (bringing the total survivors to 8?) If they did get back to the real world wouldn't it have made the lies of the Oc6 pointless unless:

1) They too had been told to lie and had been given the same story as the Oc6

or

2) They made it back but went underground fearing that people would find out about Michael's murdering spree on the the island.

#39. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 2:03 AM

I predict that the grenade will make an explosion that will be seen for Miles. [8^)

And in true Artz fashion, Hurley will say to James, "Dude, wipe that Miles off your face."

#40. Posted by: bcrfe8ve at February 22, 2008 2:14 AM

Thoughts:

--Weakest episode yet, you say? That's like saying, "Well, I had steak for dinner, but I really wanted lobster." Compare to "Stranger in a Strange Land," "SOS", or any other eps that took five to cover what two could have, and other filler-esque eps. This one was solid.


--I'm as diehard a LOST theorizer as the next, and I did NOT see the Aaron twist coming. "Meh?" Madness. Besides, can't end every ep with ever-mindblowing twists. Then you'd be Heroes Season 2. (Yeah, I went there!)


--What is with the title of this ep? That's more rhetorical than anything else. I'll research.


--Easily the best Kate episode, save perhaps for her very first one (S1E2). Because, you know, like, stuff HAPPENS and things are REVEALED.


--Finally, is no one bothered by the fact that the only time we've seen Claire grieve for Charlie was the season premiere???? She was downright chipper in this episode, and he died only a few days before?!?!?!?!


Otherwise, Season 4 has put the pedal to the metal. Rock on Darlton!

--

#41. Posted by: CC at February 22, 2008 2:59 AM

Thoughts:

--Weakest episode yet, you say? That's like saying, "Well, I had steak for dinner, but I really wanted lobster." Compare to "Stranger in a Strange Land," "SOS", or any other eps that took five to cover what two could have, and other filler-esque eps. This one was solid.


--I'm as diehard a LOST theorizer as the next, and I did NOT see the Aaron twist coming. "Meh?" Madness. Besides, can't end every ep with ever-mindblowing twists. Then you'd be Heroes Season 2. (Yeah, I went there!)


--What is with the title of this ep? That's more rhetorical than anything else. I'll research.


--Easily the best Kate episode, save perhaps for her very first one (S1E2). Because, you know, like, stuff HAPPENS and things are REVEALED.


--Finally, is no one bothered by the fact that the only time we've seen Claire grieve for Charlie was the season premiere???? She was downright chipper in this episode, and he died only a few days before?!?!?!?!


Otherwise, Season 4 has put the pedal to the metal. Rock on Darlton!

--

#42. Posted by: CC at February 22, 2008 2:59 AM

Daniel Rivera...do you watch Lost? Did you watch this episode?

#43. Posted by: Ailsa at February 22, 2008 3:30 AM

Daniel Rivera...do you watch Lost? Did you watch this episode?

#44. Posted by: Ailsa at February 22, 2008 3:30 AM

Multiple Choice:

I think the egg is a reference to:
a. Kate vs. Claire's child
b. The egg shaped grenade in Miles'mouth
c. The egg breakfast served/thrown
d. Egg headed Aaron
e. All of the above

I liked the choking the chicken play on words previously posted.

Did little Aaron have a Claire-accent...a la "Hi Mummy!"?
But then again..it is late, and I do have a Dan-like memory.

Speaking of..you ever notice how really smart braniac people have poor memories about simple stuff...I should know. Haha.

#45. Posted by: justlost at February 22, 2008 4:17 AM

They hammered home the island timeline tonight: 93 days on the island starting Sept. 22, 2004 meaning the current date is... (carry the 8.. 15...) December 24, 2004 (or maybe the 23rd depending on how you count the first day.)

Which is two days (or maybe 3) days before the Boxing Day earthquake in the Indian Ocean.

But: did Jack actually say (see Mac's Exhibit 1) that they crashed in the South Pacific? How could that anyone believe that, if the fuselage was found in the Indian Ocean (other side of Indonesia)?

#46. Posted by: LockeBox at February 22, 2008 4:28 AM

I really don't like Kate stories. I find myself questioning why we should be rooting for her. She killed her step-dad, ran, killed her doctor fried (sort of). I just kept thinking that she deserves to go to prison.

#47. Posted by: Raider at February 22, 2008 4:32 AM

I thought Locke's choice of books to give Ben to read while locked up was interesting. Valis by Philip K Dick. I checked out the plot summary for the book and it had some interesting points that could tie in with this episode.

From www.philipkdick.com:

"A coterie of religious seekers forms to explore the revelatory visions of one Horselover Fat; a semi-autobiographical dialogue of PKD. The groups hermeneutical research leads to a rock musician's estate where they confront the Messiah: a two-year old named Sophia. She confirms their suspicions that an ancient, mechanical intelligence orbiting the earth has been guiding their discoveries."

#48. Posted by: Robert d at February 22, 2008 4:37 AM

Of course Aaron doesn't have Down Syndrome.

Don't you think anyone would have noticed this on the island already. Especially with Jack being a doctor and all.

Sawyer would have made a nickname for Aaron ages ago. 'Hey, your kid looks a bit 'down' today. What's his name? Corky?'

#49. Posted by: SnakeJake at February 22, 2008 6:06 AM

Long time reader . . .blah blah blah

I always have problems with how they write Kate - flash back, on the island and flash forward. The "trial" was poorly constructed from a legal point of view, but cutting a deal for a hero is not unheard of.

- I thought it interesting that they made a point of the 10 years "in the state" and Kate's determination that she is not going anywhere. She will be the harded of the Oc6 to convince to go back to the Island, because it will probably mean leaving Aaron.

- I did call the kid being Aaron and I do wonder at Jack's refusal to be around him. Was Jack forced to back a choice that cost Claire her life? Does he know she was his sister? Did Claire offer her "spot" to Kate if she would take Aaron? Desmond said he saw Claire on the helicopter, but did not say she lived.

- The more we see of Locke, the more clearly unstable he becomes. Him, or the island working on him?

- Ben does not think he can get out from under Locke in 2 days, but he thought a week would be enough time?

- I assume Miles means to kill Charlotte, Danny and Frank, since he would assume Charlotte would have told them she found Ben?

- Any chance Kate mentions this to Charlotte when she gets back to the beach?

AMRLTFN - All my random Lost thoughts for now.

#50. Posted by: Redbee at February 22, 2008 6:34 AM

Maybe the kid that Kate calls her son, is really Claire's son. And maybe Jack doesn't want to see him because it reminds him of the island, and not that she laid down with another man.

#51. Posted by: Danni Sue at February 22, 2008 6:47 AM

Best Sawyer line!

Locke: And the rest of the group what are they saying?

Sawyer: I think they're saying baa.

Ahahahaa!!

Why would Kate claim that Aaron is hers? Is Claire dead or still on the island?

Ooh.

#52. Posted by: AC at February 22, 2008 6:49 AM

Is Miles maybe the son of the Asian guy who does the Dahrma videos??

#53. Posted by: JP at February 22, 2008 7:02 AM

GRAAM

A few quick thoughts on the quality of the epi.

As Mac said, they got the info transmitted to us but not in the usual WTF / OMG sort of way Lost has a tendancy to do things.

Also, being a prosecutor down here in Quebec, Canada, I was really suprised when the trial started off with the defence. That doesn't happen in real life. It's always the prosecution's burden to prove it's case firest.

Now I,m used to seeing writers screw this up all the time in other TV series and movies, but I was a little dissapointed to see this on Lost because of their usual attention to detail.

I know they couldn't do it the other way around (prosecution first) because then there would have been no need to have Jack testify, but I hope this will not start happening on a regular basis.

Darleton, if you're reading PLEASE don't let the quality of the writing diminish, IT'S why we watch this show and love it so. DON'T let it become just another show!

That's my 2 cents for now, and every body have a good one.

P.S. Is it me or did Locke seem to be bidding for Castro's old job...

#54. Posted by: One of the Six at February 22, 2008 7:18 AM

Everybody seems to think the card scene between Daniel and Charlotte was a memory game.

What if it was a PSYCHIC test? What if they were checking to see if Daniel is starting to exhibit psychic skillz?

Could be one of the weird things Daniel is there to test.

#55. Posted by: ishtvan at February 22, 2008 7:42 AM

Great comments everyone. Lots of astute points raised already.

Put me in the camp that really liked this episode. In fact, it was my favorite of the season. A little more subtle than the previous shows.

First of all Mac, I have to say, I am a little disappointed. When that Xanadu music was cued up in Hurley and Sawyers bachelor pad my first thought was "oh man, Mac's going to go to town on this" :-)

Anyway, I enjoyed the whole show. I liked the Miles extortion story. It was so simple. We were all set to hear him and Ben have some sort of super revealing conversation and all we see is that Miles (good actor btw, I like the way he's doing that character) is the common thug that we saw when he visited that house earlier.

And I loved the opening scene. It's good to see Ben getting his mean guy mojo back. I was getting tired of seeing him being everyone's punching bag.

Of course the baby reveal was the big mystery. What happened to Claire? My first thought was that perhaps she died and it's Kate's mission to raise Aaron. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but when he was stitching Sayid up, didn't Ben say something to Sayid about when he thought with his heart, someone died. Was that Claire, or is she left on the island? We'll just have to wait and see.

Anyway, looking forward to reading more comments.

Thanks Mac

#56. Posted by: petew at February 22, 2008 7:43 AM

Is it possible that the baby in the end is indeed Kate's, and that she named him Aaron in honor of Claire's son?

#57. Posted by: Parks at February 22, 2008 7:50 AM

Point about the SAT phone:
We now know there are 2 #s to call the ship. Charlotte indicates that the one they've been calling is George's, and they're not supposed to call Regina's. Except previously, Regina has answered the phone a few times. And I forget who, but once someone said not to say anything if George answered.
Just more clues that something's wrong on the ship.

#58. Posted by: hurling at February 22, 2008 7:51 AM

This is my first time commenting on an episode, but I woke up this morning with a theory I would like to share. We prsume the flash forward is a short time after the return of the Oceanic 6, because Kate is on trial. Cut to her son Aaron{Claires son} who is now about 4 years old.Walt appears to Locke and is about 4 years older. The missle from the boat arrives on a delay of time. Could this all have a connection? Of course! I am not a scientist but ther are probably some time theories about this.If anyone agrees or has a comment, please do so.

#59. Posted by: Maryann at February 22, 2008 7:58 AM

Mac, I had to stop reading and just LMAO "OH MY GOD JACK, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL"
Fantastic!

#60. Posted by: Peg Leg Rider at February 22, 2008 8:29 AM

Pedestrian episode, IMO. A return to the pacing problems of many a prior seasons' episodes that takes up the whole hour misdirecting us to no purpose, while telling us only one or two interesting things.

It seems pretty obvious to me that in the future flash, Jack is aware of Aaron's biological origins. In the conversation between Kate and Jack in the parking garage, Jack's reluctance to have anything to do with Kate's kid is the wedge between Jack and Kate, and she cryptically tells him that she knows why that is. In the hindsight of the reveal, the only thing that sensibly explains Jack's hyper-aversion to the kid in the future flash is that he's aware of its lineage. Hopefully, the episode that adddresses that point will be more interesting than this one. Probably will be, since Jack's dialogue in the season finale last year implied that his dad is actually still alive.

The Miles twist was lame. I had the same reaction Locke did, "Miles went through all that to ask for money?" Weak. Tell him to buy a lottery ticket. He can ask Hurley what numbers to play.

#61. Posted by: Deep Cover at February 22, 2008 8:31 AM

This episode was just aw'ight for me, dog. (Sorry, too much A.I. this week) I knew that Kate's whole trail thing had to be addressed (I could hear the People's Court theme in my head as she entered the courtroom), so while it was only meh it was necessary. I did enjoy the Aaron bit. I always knew she had a kid, but I kept expecting Sawyer to pop out of the closet at the end.

As far as Aaron being one of the Oceanic 6, he had better be. All ABC has done over the last week is say that number 5 will be revealed, and he was the only one in the episode that wasn't off the island before. Not that they haven't done that in the past. I remember in season two they kept saying on one episode we would get a major reveal, and it was something to the effect of Vincent is still alive.

@#6/Frogurt


Lastly and most importantly, if Lock used the last of the eggs, why did he kill the chicken?

Clearly, he had to kill the chicken for his satanic ritual to contact Uncle Jake. If that doesn't work, one can only assume Miles will be next.

#62. Posted by: The Other Other at February 22, 2008 8:40 AM

Mac,

Another great recap – I have to disagree with you on one point, the quality of the episode was superb. I don’t usually cringe at a Kate-centric episode, then again I “think she’s hot and I dig her accent”. All that aside – we learned some very important things:
1)Aaron makes it off the island
2)Claire does not leave the island– at least not breathing
3)Jack is freaked out by baby Aaron ( I have a theory as to why and I’ll explain later)
4)Jack and Kate are still in love with each other
5)Miles knows exactly who Ben is and what he can do
6)Locke is losing it (his mojo)

Now back to why Jack is freaked out by Baby Aaron – there are two possible reasons:
1)Jack somehow feels responsible for Claire’s death and Aaron is a constant reminder of his failure to save her.
OR
2)Aaron stayed an infant while on the island – once they were rescued and left the island the time discrepancy resolved itself resulting in Aaron aging 3-4 years overnight – that freaks Jack out because his belief in science tells him that what happened is not possible
Either way he is mucho freaked out.

Miles indicates to Ben that he know’s exactly who he is and exactly what he can do – and the reaction on Ben’s face is one of “oh crap – busted”.
Best line –
Ben: “You came all this way to blackmail me?”
Miles: “Technically it’s extortion.”

What is it that Ben “can do”?

Regarding the chopper – we can rest assured that it makes it to the freighter – We’ve seen Sayid in his flash-forward and Damon Lindleoff (?) has stated in an interview that the flash-forwards are the future because of events on the island and that they can’t change because what is happening on the island is what causes them – basically he’s saying that the Oceanic 6 can’t change their future by making different choices on the island if they don’t know what their future is. Oooooohhhh my achin’ head.

There are so many more questions but I have to cut this short or it’ll wind up being longer than Mac’s recap.

#63. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 8:41 AM

I definitely think this is supposed to be Claire's Aaron. It is why it was dropped like a bomb at the very end of the episode. And also, the bonding between Claire & Kate in this episode further points to that.
I too thought he looked down's when they first showed him, but perhaps this was unintentional, because like someone said...he certainly isn't downs on the island. Unless, of course......there is that whole miracle healing thing on the island....perhaps the body is back to the way it was when taken off the island. And Aaron was downs in Claire's belly initially. Maybe this is why Jack can't see him. Because there is too much guilt & pain over seeing him that way. And this is the reason why the psychic wanted her to raise him. Then again.....as said....he certainly didn't sound downs when he said " hi mommy".

#64. Posted by: Marge at February 22, 2008 8:41 AM

First of all, let me say GRAA Mac.

My wife and I enjoyed last nights epi, but not as mind blowing (unless you're Miles...) as the last couple of weeks.

During the trial when we saw Kate's Mom, I told my wife she would'nt testify because she was going to die. She asked how I knew, and I told her I saw the red blazer on the table when the two of them were talking. I kind of missed that one.

I did however, call the Aaron twist/reveal. The only thing I had to do was rewind the ending and put the caption on because my wife thought she said "ERIC."

Just my thoughts...no deep thoughts or major revalations in regards to this epi. Keep up the good work Mac.

#65. Posted by: Three men and a baby (I counted Hugo twice...) at February 22, 2008 8:43 AM

I thought that Locke's chicken/egg episode spoke volumes about where he is right now. "These are the last two eggs." & "I just killed a chicken."

At the beginning of th epi, Locke seems to be off balance (as Ben is so kind as to point out) not knowing what to do next. By the end he has taken action but is it action simply for action's sake? We have seen him go off this way before (the hatch & not entering the numbers for example) and then pay the consequences.

Does Locke have a plan? Or is he simply being Locke? Killing chickens isn't going to get you more eggs, John.

#66. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 8:48 AM

@59 - Maryann...I think you may be onto something in regard to addressing the TGW (taller ghost Walt). Considering the metaphysical theories out there that could address the time difference thing (I can't even comprehend those half the time I read them here...) between the boat and the island and how that would affect a person who left the island and then returns, as I am SERIOUSLY hoping Michael and Walt will, it may add some explanation as to why Walt has turned into TGW when and if he does make it back to the island. Would this theory only apply to characters who leave the island and then return? I don't think that Aaron looked 4 though...he looked about 2 to me.

@Doc H...thanks for the recap of the mythical story of Xanadu. In case anyone has not seen the movie, it stars Olivia Newton John as a Cali-based beach bum/roller skating queen who is actually one of the 7 muses. It ends with a roller derby style dance off. As I am watching last night, I am thinking, what the HELL does this movie have to do with LOST, and now I feel much better knowing it's the story of Xanadu and not the movie of Xanadu that probably has something to do with it...thank goodness! :)

-Here's a theory I had. We are assuming the O6 are the characters we have been privvy to seeing in FFs. Jack testifies that originally there were 8 survivors, two of which died. We know that Des and Sayid leave on the chopper. We don't know for sure that they make it back to the island (and the coming attraction for next week didn't seem too promising in that regard either...) What if Des and Sayid don't make it back to the island after being on the freighter? We know that Sayid at least gets off the island due to his FF and that he is in cahoots with Ben. Maybe we will see a Des FF and maybe he will be in cahoots with Ben too....some sort of deal the two of them had to make with Ben's "man on the boat"??? Then, if you take Sayid out of the O6 equation, and we don't count on Aaron as being one of the O6 either, could Des and Sayid be the "two that died" that Jack speaks of? Would that mean there are actually 3 more Lostaways that would make up the O6? I mean, if it is worldwide news about the O6, Sayid could certainly go around telling people he is one of them. It hasn't been revealed yet that Jack, Kate, or Hurley are aware of the fact that Ben is also off the island (if he even is...maybe that animal hospital is actually on the island and Sayid goes back and forth???) Over the years, we have been led and misled and led again, sometimes in circles, by the show's writers, so who's to say that things are really what they appear to be off the island as well? Maybe there are two factions of Off-islanders too...Jack/Kate and Aaron/Hurley/?/?/? and Sayid/Des/Ben/???

I also know that there's a lot to be said about Jack's character's character (does that make sense?)...on the one hand, he's made some shady decisions and has spiraled downward in his Off-island life. On the other, he provides the moral thread that so many of the Lostaways hang on to on the island. What the hell kind of dilemma did the O6 face to strike a deal to leave that would 1. make Jack turn his back on all the other survivors in his "camp" the way he did and 2. make Jack lie through his teeth on the stand? Was there another Dharma purge that they either led or were forced to lie about?

Sorry for the long post...so many thoughts swimming through my head after this ep..thanks for letting me work them out here...WGNABB!

#67. Posted by: Vikki at February 22, 2008 8:59 AM

first time poster, long time reader!regarding the 8 that survived, I think that according to their fabricated story 2 died on the island, leaving 6 to come home.
I don't think they're implying that kate was pregnant. How about a story that Claire was one of the 8 that survived and she died givinig birth, and kate the hero raised the baby as her own??? But then why wouldn't claire's family come after her? hmm. debunked my own theory....
thanks mac!

#68. Posted by: vkn at February 22, 2008 9:10 AM

At the end of this episode, I just sat there going, what....I just spent an hour to learn that Kate has Aaron???? They could have told me that in 5 minutes.

Glad the writers are back.

#69. Posted by: Found and Lost at February 22, 2008 9:19 AM

65 3 men

"I saw the red blazer on the table"

I don't understand this. What does it mean?

#70. Posted by: btly at February 22, 2008 9:25 AM

Jack’s “business” that he mentioned to Hurley in the first episode and brought him “in the neighborhood” was KATE’S TRIAL. He’s wearing the same suit in both episodes. All that flash-forward stuff happened at the same time!
Okay, so I’m guessing that two other people that had been on the plane (and lived on the island with the rest of the Losties) were found or talked about to the “rescuers” (whoever they turn out to be) and that’s why the “Oceanic 6” story had to include up to 8 survivors.
I KNEW it!! I totally called it: Kate was never pregnant – something happens to Claire and Kate ends up raising Aaron as her own.
I love how freakin’ scared Ben looks when he talks to Miles. Though Locke’s little trick with the grenade breakfast muffler was much scarier.

#71. Posted by: Angelkiss82 at February 22, 2008 9:26 AM

I believe Kate is passing Aaron off as her own child. No one ever mentioned "adoptive". Plus why would Kate's mother want to see her grandchild so badly if she knew he really wasn't Kate's? It's likely the reason why Kate didn't want her mother near him, because she would realize the child had none of their family's features.

Kate could have explained Aaron being hers by saying she was a few months pregnant on the flight which would only vary Aaron's age by five months or so and would be believable. Also the kid just woke up and looked sleepy. I didn't see any Down's features at all. He looked to be about 2 or 3.

I think Jack doesn't want to see Aaron because it reminds him of the people they left behind including Claire, which eats at him until he announces "we have to go back".

I agree with many points bre8ve listed (we think alike):

Post 10 - I too am disappointed at the way Kate was set free. Where does Kate's mother's testimony come off with such power to get someone off on murder charges? Plus there was grand theft auto, larseny, and being a fugitive in general. Or perhaps their only proof Kate did any of that was because she admitted it to her mother, and otherwise they had no proof.

Post 39 - I think Michael and Walt are also the other 2. Maybe it's acknowledged they made if off separately and are not part of the Oceanic 6? If 8 made it off and 2 later died, the public would not reduce the number to 6, and then later keep reducing when each person died. This makes no sense. Oceanic 6 means 6 dead or alive. Perhaps they had to say 8 survived, and 2 died on the island because they needed to pass off some information to the public about those 2 and thus had to prove somehow they were first alive. Or perhaps Claire was one of the 8 which would explain why Kate adopted him (if she is saying he is adopted). I don't think Aaron is considered one of the 6 anyway since he wasn't an official ticketed/live passenger.

Post 25 - Great point about how Claire is suppose to raise Aaron herself. Now what happens that Kate has him?

I think Locke was out of character with the grenade. He was never really voilent before. He never killed anyone, and remember he couldn't even kill his own dad. However he's obviously changed since Naomi and now Miles.

I also thought Locke was "cheating" when cooking eggs and using the kitchen but perhaps he is just using up the rest of the luxuries so he can live off the island.

46/LockBox - The public at this point knows the plane in the Indian Ocean was a ruse, so Jack saying they crash landed in the South Pacific is absolutely true.

#72. Posted by: BEMH at February 22, 2008 9:30 AM

@Ailsa: Yes, I do watch Lost, thanks for asking! It's one of my favorite shows.

---

I still believe that Kate took Aaron and posed as the mother (most likely posing as biological) in order to gain a sympathy vote from the public. All that she was concerned with was whether or not she'd be arrested upon escaping the island, so she needed to pose as a caring mother taking care of five people.

The only way she could pose as an adoptive mother is if they said that the mother (Claire) died while delivering the baby, but that they didn't know her name or anything, thus Kate adopted him. If they had given out Claire's name, Claire's family could've reclaimed him. Or maybe a writer's slip up. Bleh, too many theories there. Weak episode anyway.

#73. Posted by: Daniel Rivera at February 22, 2008 9:31 AM

In the past when anyone was playing backgammon, the pieces were black & white. Last night the pieces were brown. Does this represent Locke's compromising (the same thing he accused Ben of doing?)

#74. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 9:36 AM

Just my thoughts on the Kate/Aaron/Jack situation
1. I'm sure that was Claire's Aaron ... besides the super blond hair (which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything), why would Kate's lawyer think her young son would carry so much weight with the jury? My thought is that it's b/c not only has Kate been painted as a hero in the whole Oceanic crash scenario, but she's now raising the child of a fellow crash survivor who ultimately did not make it (whether she really died, or that's just the story) . Her raising a relative stranger’s child would make for a much better character boost at trial than if it were just her own.
2. Given #1, I obviously don’t believe that Kate is claiming that Aaron is hers biologically. There's no way that when Kate was rescued, she could explain a child Aaron's age, since she obviously was not 9 months pregnant when she boarded the plane.
3. Like some others have said, I think that a possible reason that Jack does not want to see Aaron is that he now knows that Aaron is his nephew, and he feels overwhelming guilt about whatever happened to his sister Claire. I’m guessing she either died, or is still on the island … I’m leaning towards dead—Desmond had a flash of Kate in a helicopter lifting off from the island, maybe something happened in transit, and Aaron somehow survived b/c I can’t imagine that Claire would have separated willingly from Aaron, or that Kate would have felt compelled to leave before mother Claire, and take the baby as a favor). Now of course Jack could feel guilt even w/o knowing Claire is his sister, but I don’t think it would keep him from seeing the baby.
4. I think that the reason for the official story being that 8 people originally survived is that something happened that made it obvious that the two other people were alive at some point. And I think one of those people is Claire, and that since Aaron is now with Kate, Claire would have presumably been alive after the crash, so they have to explain why she’s back out there in the world with her son. I just wonder if the world believes that the other two died because there are bodies that were recovered, or because it’s the story they’ve all been telling. I’m dying to know who the two that “survived but didn’t make it” are supposed to be.
5. Speaking of the cover story, I wonder if the Oceanic 6 agreed on the story about Kate being the big hero, b/c they thought that maybe that would help Kate when she ultimately had to face her criminal charges. It’s kinda silly, but then why make Kate the big hero? Jack would otherwise be the obvious choice to take that role in the story (especially since he actually did play hero quite a bit).
6. I don’t have a great reason, but I don’t think that Aaron is considered one of the Oceanic 6. I could easily be wrong about that though.
That’s all. Just wanted to share my thoughts. Can’t wait for next week! I get the feeling that the pilot is flying directly into what looks like a storm (but could be any kind of freaky warp thing at this point), b/c Daniel told him to follow the bearing no matter what. I find it interesting that it looked like they are encountering a horrible storm when they are presumably not far from the island which has been dry as a bone in the 24 hours or so that they’ve been gone. Talk about a bumpy ride …

#75. Posted by: BluSerene at February 22, 2008 9:41 AM

Where did Kate get the money to afford a big house and a Volvo? Would she still qualify for a settlement from Oceanic if she was a fugitive? Surely she would not be able to find a good job while awaiting trial. Did Hurley or Jack give her money? Did she strike a cash deal with the person in charge of the search on the freighter?

#76. Posted by: momofdjalandjim at February 22, 2008 9:59 AM

In season three we see Claire at her mother's bedside telling her she is pregnat. In the background there is Jack dressed in hospital garb cleaning the floor. It seeems Jack had something to do with a plan of his father to end the life support of Claire's mother and this is why he is so anxious to get the body out of Sidney. When he finds the coffin on the island it is empty, the airport officials didn't release the body. Last week Jack in a FF makes mention of his father two times which would indicate his father is alive. Now we have Jack saying only eight survived the crash and earlier Hogo saying he didn't know Anna Lucia. It seems that the exodus form the island was chaotic and there is this story of six survivors concocted to protect the other survivors some who may have gotten off the island and some who remained. Jin and Sun had every reasosn to reemian in hiding but wanted off the island, they are not alone. I predict we will see a chaotic departure from the island with plans to protect those who remianed and those who evacuated.

#77. Posted by: krasjim at February 22, 2008 10:03 AM

I am having a tough time with time lines. Are they rescued around January 2006 with Aaron being a baby. And it takes three years to get a trial together for Kate?

#78. Posted by: Rudy at February 22, 2008 10:06 AM

Has it occurred to anyone that Sayid may not actually be one of the Oceanic 6? If he is one of the O6, then he would be very recognizable, as they've been none to shy about pointing out between Kate, Hurley and Jack's flashforwards. If he's recognizable, it'd be tough for Sayid to travel all over the place as an assassin. Granted he did sort of admit it to the guy on the golf course, but that was someone he knew he was going to kill, so the veracity of the statement didn't really matter.

I think it's distinctly possible that he's not part of O6. Also, how do we know Sayid's not already working with Ben? I'm not saying I necessarily think otherwise, but the show does have a tendency to deliver OMG moments by capitalizing on viewer assumptions.

#79. Posted by: Chris van B at February 22, 2008 10:07 AM

@krasjim #77:

I don't like to knock people for their thoeries, but yours doesn't make much sense to me. Jack doesn't know that Claire is his half-sister, why would he be in an Australian hospital cleaning the floor, and why would he be involved in a "plot" with his father to end the life support of a woman he doesn't even know?

#80. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 10:08 AM

@ 75(5) I must agree that making Kate the hero was only to try and keep her out of jail. I can't see any other valid reason to invent this part.

I also agree with the fact that Kate must be passing Aaron off as hers, it's the only reason her mother would want to see him.

Still can't figure out why Jack is so freakish about Aaron. He obviosly still loves Kate, but he's willing to sacrifice it all because he can't stand to see or be with the kid...

It's pretty clear that the conviction the DA was looking for was the murder, it was the only charge justifying the prosecution of a public hero. The other charges were tagged along but they would not have been proscuted on their own.

As per Dan's three card monty, maybe he has some memory problems (degenerative disease or something) and since they seem to know about the island's properties, there testing to see if it's having a healing effect on Mr. Physics

Got to get back to work, that's all for now.

P.S. Anybody get the judges name, I feel there's an easter egg hiding there (also maybe one of the significations of the epi title)

#81. Posted by: One of the Six at February 22, 2008 10:12 AM

→ 79. Posted by: Chris van B

Sayid + hair straighteners =
assassin

lol

but i agree he doesnt look that different with straight hair.

#82. Posted by: AC at February 22, 2008 10:14 AM

→ 70. Posted by: btly

I don't understand this either!

#83. Posted by: AC at February 22, 2008 10:19 AM

As mentioned, Aaron is not likely a member of the Oceanic 6. The term "Oceanic 6" is no doubt a sensational name the media has attributed to 6 people who were passengers, and survived the crash.

Yes - we all know that Aaron technically qualifies, but I have too much respect for the writers to believe that they would waste one of 6 spots with Aaron.

This episode confirmed that Kate is most certainly one of the the 6.
For those counting, we know of 4, and there are 2 to go.

Theories of Claire and Aaron:

I had previously speculated that Claire will bite the bullet, as it seemed she was nothing but a background character for much of S3. This episode makes you want to think that Claire could be dead, but I think this is a Red Herring.

So - what is it that would make Jack not comfortable with Aaron? Could this be part of the "guilt" thing that drives him to drug and alcohol abuse?

Perhaps, in his obsessed belief that leaving the island was paramount and in the best interests of everyone and anyone, maybe he snatched Aaron from Claire, in the belief that this was best for him? I could see Jack doing something like that.

The writers will have some reason as to why only 6 could leave (space limitations, etc). Perhaps Claire asked Kate to take Aaron with her? Naturally, Claire has issues with Aaron's father, so maybe she insisted that Kate take care of him as her own, as a means of insuring that the fathers family would not get involved for publicity purposes?

#84. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 10:23 AM

Why is everyone assuming the grenade is real? Locke is no fool, so what would he gain by blowing Miles up? I think he is playing a mind game with Miles, in the old "Obi-Locke" fashion. This would be welcome, as Locke needs to get his mojo running again.

I thought the "I killed a chicken" was just an excuse to cover that he cut his hand while smashing the dishes.

#85. Posted by: The Duf at February 22, 2008 10:25 AM

Hello all,
Have not posted before, but have been reading a long time. Great reviews, Mac, long, short or otherwise. My favorite place to go for recaps. It helps to be a Red Sox fan as well.
Anyhow, one of the reasons I have never posted was that I didn't have anything to add that had not been said by the smart people on this blog. Well, now I do - It has occurred to me that the info that tells us pregnant woman die on the island may just be yet another form or Ben's manipulation, in this case, perhaps to keep Juliette there. They could have implanted some kind of time-release device like they did to Claire last season, and not deactivated it, causing the pregnant woman to die.
This could mean that Sun will survive, with all the upheaval thats gone on since her conception, maybe they have not had the opportunity to implant anything and maybe that was the reason for trying to capture all pregnant Losties in the first place.

#86. Posted by: Dharma Queen at February 22, 2008 10:26 AM

I may have been hearing things but when Kate picked up Aaron it sounded like he called her "Mummy" not "Mommy". To me that would suggest he has an Australian (or British) accent perhaps? That would also suggest that if he is Claire's Aaron that she was around when he started talking. As I watched the show I almost felt that they were trying to lead us to believe that Kate may have been lying to Saywer and was actually pregnant but she knows Saywer would want nothing to do with that (as he showed by his celebration) and that made her mad. The twist being that perhaps the baby in the forward flash was Sawyers. If figured the baby was gonna call her "freckles" and cue to the Lost logo. Then I heard "Mummy" and was like.. oh.. Aaron.

#87. Posted by: pacer6string at February 22, 2008 10:29 AM

Buh-bye Claire. Been nice knowin' ya. Afraid that last night's episode was akin to a death sentence for you. I think Calire is the one who will die before E8.

Question is: why her? And how? She is non-confrontational, non-aggressive, does not carry or use a gun (does she even know how?) Will she die at the hands of another or as a result of some island illness/mishap?

Guess we can expect her to appear in later episodes as a ghost...maybe giving diaper-changing advice to Kate!

#88. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 10:30 AM

Anyone have any theories on the $3.2 million asked for by Miles? Ben questioned the number, "Why, 3.2? Why not 3.3 or 3.4?" What's the significance?

#89. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 10:38 AM

This episode was poorly written and badly executed by any standard.

The Kate court proceedings were not believable; totally wrong both factually and procedurally:

Kate was being tried in a California court. However, California has no jurisdiction over any of her crimes. Murder is a local, state prosecution. The murder of her step father took place in Iowa. To be tried for murder, she would have been in an Iowa courtroom. Her bank robbery took place in New Mexico. Any bank robbery charges would be tried in New Mexico. She would have to be tried in each state for each separate crime. Also, federal courts have no “consolidation” jurisdiction over state criminal actions. So the whole premise that Kate was being tried for all her charges in one California court proceeding is totally wrong.

During the trial, the prosecution presents its case in chief first. When Jack was called to the stand as a defense “character” witness, that would have meant that the prosecution would have rested its case. But it did not; because afterward the prosecutor (the District Attorney) told the judge her key witness, Kate’s mother, was “unable to testify” (because he was being uncooperative). Not only the court procedure was wrong, the excuse that Kate’s mother is now uncooperative is irrelevant to the prosecution of a capital case. Prosecutors subpoena “uncooperative” witnesses every day to testify at trials. Under the rules of evidence, a prosecutor can impeach its own witness on prior inconsistent statements, or subject an “uncooperative” witness to perjury charges. Further, the investigators who conducted the interviews with Kate’s mother would still be able to testify on Kate’s conduct. So the whole concept that the prosecution’s case instantaneously unraveled when Kate’s mother got “cold” feet is not believable.

No prosecutor would offer time served (less than 2 years since that is my guess on Aaron's age) and probation to a murder-arson-insurance fraud case. An elected District Attorney would be run out of office for being soft on crime if allowed such a deal.

So the whole premise of Kate’s trial and release is totally out of the realm of reality even for television show writing. It taints the entire show.

#90. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2008 10:44 AM

I agree with Shikotee that Aaron is NOT one of the Oceanic six. He hadn't even been born when the plane crashed.

Perhaps calire WAS one of the Oceanic 6. Des's premonition of seeing Claire and Aaron lifted to safety on a helicopter does come true but she dies after returning to the real world 9i.e. in a forward flash).

Another thought....if Des and Juliette reutrn to the real world, they technically would not be considered part of the O-6 since they were never ON the plane to start with and hence, did not survive the crash. Maybe they create some ruse about why they were already there?

I think that the remaining two are Sun and Yin. They do have an episode coming up (the week after next) you know. That's where my $ is anyway. Especially with the inclusion of the scene b/n them last night about "where should we live and raise our baby?"

#91. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 10:45 AM

Don't have the benefit of DVR, so correct me if I'm wrong, but during the exchange between Miles and Kate where he tells her she should just stay on the island, didn't he say to her "Who knows? maybe you survived" or somtething like that? That seems to be a very strong clue of a parallel universes/separate realiies, etc.

#92. Posted by: VPIWes at February 22, 2008 10:46 AM

Additional Thoughts Upon Second Viewing:

(1) How is Kate so loaded? A sizeable, new home in So-Cal. A fancy car (BMW I think) in the driveway. A private nanny. Is this all a result of supposed "hush-money" from Oceanic/Maxwell Group/Abbadon? Think it is relevant since she wasn't well off pre-crash and now seems to be livin' pretty high on the hog.

(2) Aaron is definitely NOT 3 or 4 years old! My best guess is between 18-24 months. And yes, I'm a mom of two boys so that is an observation from experience.

(3) Whose to say Claire doesn't make it off the island and die after returning to the real world or even en route?

#93. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 11:05 AM

@79. Sayid IS one of the Oceanic 6, In last week's episode, when he kills Mr. Avellino he tells him he got a huge settlement for being a survivor of Oceanic 815.
On the time warp theory, I think that the helicopter Does make it to the freighter, but for some-hatch implosion and not pushing the button-reason time is moving faster on the island than on the rest of the world, thus the helicopter is still on route to the freighter when they make the 911 call. What's really strange is how come radio waves travel at normal speed and are not delayed??? This time warp as ET dude put it is moving at a different pace, maybe its time being sort of stopped little by little on the island. I mean Aaron looks like he's three yrs old. How much time has elapsed in these Flash forwards???
Why are those 3.2 mil so important to -as Sawyer puts it- "that Bruce Lee guy from the freighter"? Even Benry asks him this, why not 3.3 etc...
Ben is actually so rich he can afford that money? I mean Miles calls him out. We know who you are and what you do... (???)
In all honesty, I was really surprised to see Aaron as Kate's son. I really thought it would be a Sawyer baby.
Maybe Claire is supposed to die and she tells Kate to please take Aaron with her, to protect him. Jacob might tell Fidel Locke to get the baby off the island?
This episode I thought was pretty well done since it gives out a lot of clues. and raises more and more questions.
Nice job Mac........

#94. Posted by: mapache at February 22, 2008 11:08 AM

I think there'e a possibility that Claire is still alive. This would give her and the French Chick (can't spell her name). Plus, neither's child would know the mother when they were reunited. I think the writers would like parallel plots like that.

#95. Posted by: castaway at February 22, 2008 11:09 AM

When Ben captured Kate, Sawyer, and Jack, he took Kate away wined, dined and dressed her. I believe he impregnated her and then put her in a cage that she could get out of. The plan was for her to seduce Sawyer (with little effort) so people would assume that the baby was his when in acuality the baby is Ben's. Kate knows she is pregnant that is why she needs to leave the island (all pregnant women die) and cannot stay with Sawyer. That is why she is so concerned with Miles giving her information about her and the outside world.

#96. Posted by: Roxy at February 22, 2008 11:12 AM

Few thoughts.....

-First of all, I have to say, I love our little LOST crew here....but who in the hell would come to a conclusion that Aaron 'looks like' he has downs syndrome? That's just F'n brutal!! I think we should lay off the innocent little child and focus on making fun of the fact that he could be the devil incarnate (psychic prediction?). I just think playing the DS card is a little jumpy and mean.

-Locke: choking chicken, then blood...dude, you're doing it all wrong!!!!

-@ #76/whatever your name is: I agree totally. I was thinking where did Kate get the cashish to have a sweet home and a live-in nanny (clue: looked kinda like Hurley in drag?). That's a little odd. Unless she was getting $$ from the government to take care of her downs syndrome baby....JERKS!! HA!

-$3.2MM: I believe that this will end up being some kind of code. Miles knows Ben and they'll be working together. Could 3.2 be a reference to the 'changing directional heading' to get on/off the island? What was the most recent coordinates? What heading did Ben tell Michael to follow?

Things I thought I heard:

-Didn't Sawyer say 'We haven't gone all the way yet' when he and Kate woke up in the morning? Was he referring to the previous night or the entire time they've been on the island, including the 'cage of raging hormones'? PS - I just read a story that fish biscuits make you sterile.

-Kate's lawyer I think says 'we need to put him on the stand'. And Kate I think says 'you're not putting my son on the stand'. Why would they put Aaron on the stand? Can he talk? Can he remember what happened to Claire and that's why she doesn't want him to testify? Would it just be too tramatic and Kate's just being a good mommy? Does downs syndrome lead to perjury? JERKS I repeat!!

That's all I got for now I guess. I hope you've all learned your lesson.

#97. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 22, 2008 11:16 AM

*** Some Spoiling ****

I think some of this was mentioned in the 3rd episode discussions...

In a recent interview, Damon and Carlton clarified a few important things.

Most importantly, they clarified that flash-forwards are set in stone, and they are not just a possibility that could be changed. They also clarified that flash-forwards are presented in chronological narrative fashion within the episode - so Sayid in golf course takes place before Elsa.

With that said, they are not against "bending the time/space continuum", but they are against paradox problems.

#98. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 11:16 AM

Alot of folks seem to be wondering how Kate could afford the nice hoouse and the nice car and a nanny - the answer is simple - a nice fat monetary settlement from Oceanic Airlines. That's why Sayid was able to play glo at such an exclusive club, "I received a large settlement from a plane crash. My name is Sayid Jarra(?), I am one of the Oceanic 6". So if Sayid received a large cash settlement then why not Kate? Being a fugitive from justice wouldn't exclude her from suing or being able to accept a settlement.

#99. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 11:16 AM

I don't think Jack lied to the court, he just misremembered.

#100. Posted by: lostsox at February 22, 2008 11:27 AM

Sorry - in my post above i meant "able to play golf" - I really need to start proof-reading my posts before submitting.

#101. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 11:32 AM

@lostsox: Awesome. Just, AWESOME.

#102. Posted by: mac at February 22, 2008 11:32 AM

What if . . .

. . . Kate’s Flash Forward was actually a DREAM? Why? Because: (1) After talking to Miles (and after last week’s suggestion from Sawyer), wouldn’t any reasonable person figure out that leaving the island with great fanfare only to face felony charges would be incredibly stupid? (2) At no time during the trial was Kate ever referred to as one of the “Oceanic Six” even when there was a perfect tie-in to do so; i.e., “She has one of the most recognizable faces in America. She is one of the Oceanic Six.” (3) The whole trial sequence had the crazy dream-like quality of being filmed in cool blue, putting the defense before the prosecution (and other legal inconsistencies posted here), including Jack as a character witness mainly to get him to admit to the status of his “love” for Kate, introducing “mom” into the proceedings, and at the end, adding Aaron to the mix . . . the subconscious is certainly capable of tying all these things together into a dream, especially after the day Kate just had.

What if . . .

. . . when next week we back up the timeline to cover what was going on once the helicopter left the island and during this action-packed sequence we cut back to the simultaneous events at the island and we see Kate moping back to her house as per Lock’s demand, falling into a fitful sleep, dreaming the whole trial sequence, waking up in a heart-pounding panic as Aaron calls her “Mummy,” then retreating to the living room couch in time to receive Lock’s visit informing her of her new persona non-grata status?

What if . . .

. . . the writers are sitting back in their lair having a good laugh at all LOST fans wracking their brains to determine the remaining members of the Oceanic Six after being misled by this week’s supposed revelation in this regard?

What if . . .

. . . Miles would have asked Ben for $4 million, or $8 million or $1.5 million or $1.6 million or $2.8 million, or $4.2 million? (Would anyone have questioned the number as much?)

#103. Posted by: desertrat at February 22, 2008 11:36 AM

@Dakota #5 Thanks for the shoutout to the wine...:) more later tonight, after I have celebrated a bit.

@Clementine #8 7 minutes with Ben...hmmmm, oh, back to reality. I'm telling you, he's the man. He's not dying, he's not in the coffin. That man is in control of it all. I don't even know why he is tolerating being held prisoner. I don't believe it for a minute. It's all part of his game.

I thought the same thing about the down syndrome baby. At first though, I was expecting to see Ben living with Kate. That would have been freaky. I didn't buy the whole story of her being let off, but the stipulation that she would have to stay in the area must come into play somewhere. maybe this is why she can't "go back" as Jack insists.

more later

#104. Posted by: meg at February 22, 2008 11:38 AM

GRAAM. I agree the ep was weak, but still riveting. I was in the "HE is Aaron" camp, but don't believe he is one of the Six. Bottom line for me: Regardless of how (insert name here)-centric each episode is, it's still all about Ben. I look forward to hearing from the rest of your regulars, Mac. Cecil Rose? RNM? Anyone?

#105. Posted by: lovelost at February 22, 2008 11:39 AM

My theory:
Any member of the "Oceanic 6" must have been on the flight. Therefor Aaron, Ben, or Desmond can't be in that group. Doesn't mean they don't get off the island, just means they wouldn't be recognized as part of the six survivors. I think Jin & wife make up numbers five and six.

As for the baby, my theory is that the source of rescue (helicopter etc) could only take a few people (the six). Claire wasn't one of the six, but she begged Kate to take the baby first, just in case they didn't make it back to pick up everyone else. The rescuers then told the 6, you have a choice. We can take you back to civilazation under one condition, you go along with the story that there are no more survivors and we are not going back to pick anyone else up. The other option is we kill you and say there were no survivors on the island. This would explain Jack's guilt, plus why he feels the need to go back (we never should have left, we have to go back), plus it explains why he makes sure Hurley has been sticking with "the story", plus it explains Kates comment "I've heard you say it so many times I almost think you believe it". Just my two cents.

#106. Posted by: Sammy at February 22, 2008 11:43 AM

To me, the assumption of the "large cash settlement" being a normal lawsuit or lawsuit-preventer settlement don't ring true.

What seems more likely is that there's some sort of bribery going on. In return for the large pile of cash, the six have agreed to stick to a cover story that's miles off the truth. And the coverup is slowly eating at every one of them.

Maybe it was even a sweetener on some "offer they can't refuse" made by some shadowy power we know nothing of, yet - whoever's behind the freighter, perhaps.

Maybe all the 'left-behinds' ARE dead and the surviving six are consumed by guilt over whatever deals they made that saved their own hides.

Or maybe the left-behinds are hostages. The six either take their blood-money and abide by the rules like good little boys and girls, or bad things happen to their firends.

A lot of agonizing and theorizing would be saved if folks would go back and watch the "enhanced" versions of the show.

In the E-version of last week's show (broadcast just before last night's show) the pop-ups clearly state that Sayid is revealed to be the fourth member of the Oceanic Six (in addition to Jack, Kate, and Hurley).

It was also clearly stated that the clocks "were synchronized before the missile was launched" (apparently by communication between Faraday and Regina) and that the difference is not due to the trip, and therefore not due to different rates of time passage on and off the island.

The interview that Gator Gal pointed us to also clearly states that the Future Flashes are NOT possible alternate futures but THE future - exactly how the story will unfold (unlike Desmond's visions).

#107. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 22, 2008 11:44 AM

just wanted to add my five cents to the ante:

-kate was very adament to sawyer that she is NOT pregnant

-it is aaron that kate is passing off as hers and i'm sure we will find out how and why it came to be that way.

-aaron looks to be around 2 or 3 years old(and yes i have children, three boys). :)

-charlotte said she has "work to do", besides capturing and/or killing ben what else is there for her to do??

-as many have already mentioned, why 3.2 mill for miles? in todays world thats not a lot of money if one plans to live off it and not do anything else to make any more money.

-if ben is such a powerful and wealthy individual, how did this come to be?? cant wait to find out.

-one last thing, will anybody EVER remenber those darn diamonds that are buried on the beach and try and retrieve them?? :)

Just my five cents.

#108. Posted by: tiffani at February 22, 2008 11:48 AM

Also on the "let's get some money from Ben" bit:

I doubt miles is the only one involved. I would be willing to bet that the Helicopter Pilot and Miles are together on the plan to get money out of ben.

#109. Posted by: afraal at February 22, 2008 11:49 AM

I think Kate's sentence is just to show the irony of it. She has always been on the run and can't stay in one place for too long. She now has to "stay put" (exact quote).

#110. Posted by: Rudy at February 22, 2008 11:49 AM

I agree w/ bcre8ve that the Daniel/card thing wasn't a memory loss test but an ESP test. And he got two out of three.

Now here's my big theory...Kate's Aaron is not Claire's Aaron...it's Kate's and Sawyer's. I'm betting that Claire and Aaron fall out of the helicopter or some such and Kate names her love child after the poor departed turnip-head. That would explain why Kate has to get off the island (she's pregnant and doesn't want to die - yes, she lied to Sawyer), and why Jack dislikes the wee babby (cuz it's Sawyer's).

And funny how Miles is a bit of a conman (i.e., ghost-whisperer), but is into extortion to make a quick and easy buck, and seems to have no problem (other than a steel pineapple in his mouth) with "...getting rid of Charlotte..." That $3.2M is somehow significant.

And the title of the ep "Welcome to Eggtown" meant ot me something along the lines of...which came first the chicken or the egg...because it seems to me that Locke is turning into Ben.

#111. Posted by: Randy at February 22, 2008 11:50 AM

@R...N...M: I think you "misremembered." I don't think Kate's lawyer ever said he wanted to put her son on the stand, I think he merely wanted the completely adorable, wonderfully behaved, (chromosomally normal), tow-headed tot to be present to help garner the jury's sympathy for Kate as a dedicated single mother who shouldn't be shuttled off to prison.

#112. Posted by: desertrat at February 22, 2008 11:53 AM

And I have a dollar that says Walt is Ben's man on the boat.

#113. Posted by: Randy at February 22, 2008 11:55 AM

Thanks Mac for your Blog. Lot of work late at night.....

I did not think the episode was great when I watched it but after conferring with my daughter on the epi, I found that there were a lot of questions raised.

Most of the info in the epis, I get the OMG thing because I can connect it logically with what I already know. But last night, I couldn't connect with too much, only ask wha??????

So Thjis might be a really good one that will be important later and I connect with it then.

Good point about the color of the backgammon pieces. but it WAS Ben's game, so it would be muddied. Locke does seem to be taking over Ben's position though. maybe that's what the others are waiting for. to see who comes out on top with Jacob. Wouldn't they come to help Ben? Or maybe they just don't want the boaties to know they are there.

Daniel's cards was a ESP test. I never thought anything else. He seemed to be disappointed with 2 out of 3. We don't see Char place the cards so we don't know about this.

Many here thought that Kate's man was a baby, and when she and Claire were bonding, I thought ok, must be Aaron, but no idea how.

This was a frustrating epi. Especially now that I had read all the posts ;)

#114. Posted by: Berkyo at February 22, 2008 11:57 AM

GRAA, Mac!

I have a theory, that the Oceanic 6 are allowed off the island as part of a master plan, devised by Ben, perhaps. Part of the control could be that they would allow Aaron off, but make Claire remain. That keeps Jack invested in both islanders (sis Claire) and off-islanders (nephew Aaron) which could be a part of why it is so hard for him eventually. Considering the people off so far, they seem to be of use. Jack/doctor, Kate/criminal, Sayid/soldier. I think that is why Kate is so quick to accept the offer that she stays in the state for 10 years. This means she can't be sent off to do someone's bidding, and she'll be under the watchful eye of the justice system. It's almost like protective custody. Perhaps the reason she doesn't want her son "exposed" is so the biological family doesn't come looking for him. They could have passed Aaron off as the child of another 815er, not Claire's. Just a thought.

I'm not a Kate fan, so I find her back- and forward-stories lacking. Plus, her character is cranky all the time. Part of the reason I like the rest of the characters is they seem to have more than one emotion. Annoyed 1 and annoyed 2 does not invest me in her well-being. Sawyer could do better.

#115. Posted by: Lost Cause at February 22, 2008 11:58 AM

I think that Kate has to be passing Aaron off as her own son. Before this twist I thought that maybe she used another name from the manifest to try to escape prosection. However, even after talking to Miles it is apparent that she left the island as Kate Austin. I can't see any judge in America letting someone accused of murder and arson raising a baby that was not biologically hers. I think that they would try and find the babies relatives or send Aaron to child protective services. I also don't think that it matters if Aaron was born before or after the crash - anyone alive and rescued would be considered part of the Oceanic 6. Can't you see the news clips about a rescued infant if this really happened. Some people don't start to show until the fifth month. We know that they have been on the island between three and four months and we don't know how many days they are on the island between when the helicopter lands and the "rescue". I think that there could be a timeline which has Kate having a baby prematurely on the island (wouldn't that be expected after the trauma of the crash and the change of diet and exercise associated with the island living - thank goodness a doctor survived)

#116. Posted by: agunther at February 22, 2008 12:06 PM

Bad typis, bad...

Instead of "that the difference is not due to the trip, and therefore not due to different rates of time passage on and off the island."

that sentence should have read

"that the difference IS due to the trip, and therefore not due to different rates of time passage on and off the island."

#117. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 22, 2008 12:12 PM

@110 Rudy

re: Kate's sentence - She now has to "stay put"

I think what is more interesting is that she wants to stay put! When her lawyer is bargaining with the prosecutor, it is implied that the lawyer could get a better deal for Kate, but she settles for less. She passes it off as just wanting the whole ordeal to end, but there most certainly is more to it.

She has no interest in mobility, and is much more concerned about her responsibility to (to take care, or protect) Aaron.

When Kate talks to her mom, they are so close to making peace, until Aaron is brought up. The protection of Aaron is more important than making peace with her dying mother...

#118. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 12:13 PM

lostsox 100

Thanks my lunch is all over my PC

"I don't think Jack lied to the court, he just misremembered."

#119. Posted by: btly at February 22, 2008 12:17 PM

Make that "typist", not "typis"

You know, this could get

(recur(recur(recur(recursive)sive)sive)sive)

#120. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 22, 2008 12:18 PM

Whoops, I forgot about Hurley. Ben would want him off the island because Hurley can see Jacob. Remember how unhappy Ben was when he realized Hurley had seen the cabin? Ben wants to be the only one communicating with Jacob, which is why he and Locke are at each other's throats. This goes back to season 3 with the other Others recognizing Locke's special communication with the island and their growing unease with Ben. Then, Locke said last night that he is working FOR the island. Hurley seems to have that special connection, too, as evidenced with the van starting, seeing the cabin, etc. Locke would want him to stay, because that raises Hurley's importance in his eyes, but Ben would definitely want him gone. Can't have TWO Jacob-seers working together against him.

#121. Posted by: Lost Cause at February 22, 2008 12:29 PM

LOSTSOX, aside from making me LOL, you made me think: Since Jack is obviously lying (misremembering)about Kate's heroic role, and we're pretty sure that Kate has Claire's Aaron, can we assume that all of the Oceanic Six agreed to the story being told in the courtroom? Or are they too wrapped up in their after-Island lives to know or care? This is such a minor point in the whole scheme of things, I know.

@104 Meg: Yes yes yes. Ben is definitely the man (and not in a good way).

@97 RNM thanks for putting down the Down's thing.

#122. Posted by: lovelost at February 22, 2008 12:33 PM

@Red...Neck...Man /97 "fish biscuits make you sterile" LOL!

@Gator Gal - I put Aaron at 24-36 mos. The "Hi, Mommy" was pretty clear. And if they were going to put him on the stand, he'd have to have complete sentences.

I also heard "Eric," not "Aaron" - and wondered if I'd misheard. Will rewatch tonight.

Along with the trial being totally messed up, I don't get why Aaron would be a character witness. If she's a murderer, etc., they certainly would take her child away.
And "time served" - if she'd been in jail for most of the 2 yrs, Aaron wouldn't know her or be bonded.

Must remember to watch with captions on.

#123. Posted by: hurling at February 22, 2008 12:36 PM

→ 90. Posted by: welh

Just a quick point: I believe the prosecution had told the judge Kate's mother could not testify due to ill health.

And a quick question: Did Kate's lawyer tell her the D.A. herself was going to be trying the case? Would a D.A. try a Federal case?

#124. Posted by: Marzo at February 22, 2008 12:37 PM

I read to point 100 and did not see this so far so here it goes.

notice that whenever the helicopter is seen on lost there is an electrical storm. We saw this for when Naomi first came on the island and for when the fantastic four of Miles/Jimmy Buffett/CS Lewis and Dan the Man come to the island and now we see it in next weeks preview.

THis all goes into the thought that there is some sort of magnitism around the island that allows folks to travel via some sort of space/time worm hole. Maybe by getting near this worm hole u upset the balance.

It is clear that writers like to give hints with the names of characters. Lets not forget about Faraday and what he as a scientist is known for (all that cool stuff with magnetism/etc).

different topic:

i said to my wife - Kates kid will be aaron about 30 mins into the epi.

There has to be some link in here.

C

#125. Posted by: lost at work at February 22, 2008 12:38 PM

→ 112. Posted by: desertrat at February 22, 2008 11:53 AM

You are wrong, I do think the lawyer wanted to put the son on the stand. I remember wondering how he would have grown up so quickly.

#126. Posted by: meg at February 22, 2008 12:40 PM

Someone had posted that the Oceanic 6, having made it back from the island, are all worse off than before they were rescued. I think it was a comment from last week or the week before. Apparently Kate is one of the 6 that is not miserable after being rescued. Although only time will tell if the guilt eventually eats away at her.

#127. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 12:40 PM

post#109
-good call about miles being in cahoots with the pilot or someone, i can definitely see that being a possibility.

my theory....and it is only a theory, maybe the 8 or 6 that get off the island had every intention of going back to rescue the other but couldnt. something serious goes down preventing that from happening(they stage an unsucessful coup and its either they live, never come back or try to come back and never speak of what happened to anyone and "they" will make sure they never want for anything or if they do they will kill everyone left on the island. since everyone has become very fond of each other, i think that would be a hard pill to swallow.

#128. Posted by: tiffani at February 22, 2008 12:49 PM

Quick Question: If Kate's crimes took place in Iowa then why was her trial held in California?

@ tiffani: I haven't forgotten about the diamond either! :)

#129. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 12:55 PM

Hello everybody
Great review as always Mac.
I don't think Kate took Aaron to gain sympathy, because she didn't wanted him near anyone public. I think Claire will die and that's why she has him.
I like the theory that some of you suggested about Jack not standing to see Aaron because "somehow" he finds out they are related, and when he sees the child all that "my-father-had-another-family-I-had-daddy-issues" comes back.
@90: I really liked your observations about the legal procedure. Real bad from the writers to not make some research.

#130. Posted by: MassielZ at February 22, 2008 12:55 PM

Meant @wehl (#90) Sorry...

#131. Posted by: MassielZ at February 22, 2008 12:59 PM

Is it possible that the trial was held in California as a result of a "change of venue" motion?

Probably not - there has to be a compelling reason for a change of venue.

Any other ideas that might seem plausible?

#132. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 1:00 PM

SKIP THIS LONG ENTRY IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT "EGGTOWN"
Meaning of episode name - Eggtown:

(From Lostpedia)
Egg-town is a pejorative term that refers to the days of bartering, during the Great Depression. A traveling salesman would have to barter his candy or tobacco or shoelaces for different commodities. A poor exchange would be for eggs, a relatively common item that is also highly perishable. Nobody wants to trade for eggs from a traveling salesman because they have their own, so the salesman who accepted an egg in exchange was forced to accept a bad deal. Salesmen would use the term like "If I were you I would stay away from Bogart. That's an egg-town." . . . The term "egg-town" represents a deal with undesirable outcomes in either case

We have a few different examples in this episode that refer to an "eggtown":

The inability of Locke to makes any progress with the interrogation of Ben or Miles.
The deal Kate made. She is now forbidden to leave the state and thus can't legally go back to the island for any reason for at least ten years.
The barracks turn out to be Egg-town for Miles; He tries to extort 3.2 million dollars from Ben and ends up with a grenade in his mouth instead.

The episode starts with literal eggs: Locke preparing an omelet breakfast for Ben. He tells Ben these are the last two eggs.
Kate's preoccupation with the chance that she might be pregnant, and the continuing references to her child in the episode's flashforwards.
Locke's inability to establish any communication with Jacob.
Locke kills a chicken (no more eggs).
Kate's decision whether to leave the island and go to jail or remain on the island and die (from her hinted-at pregnancy).

#133. Posted by: ANTP? at February 22, 2008 1:04 PM

@ 124 / Marzo

Just a quick point: I believe the prosecution had told the judge Kate's mother could not testify due to ill health.
>>> A witness' condition does not stop cold a witness from testifying. There have been cases where people with oxygen tanks go to court and testify before jurors. (In fact, Kate's mom was in the court hosue already.) Also, knowing that Kate's mom was near death several times over, the prosecution would have video taped an evidence deposition at the very least prior to trial to preserve her testimony.

And a quick question: Did Kate's lawyer tell her the D.A. herself was going to be trying the case? Would a D.A. try a Federal case?

>>> U.S. Attorneys try federal cases. District Attorneys try state/local cases. The arson-murder-insurance fraud case would have had to been tried at the place of the crime, Iowa, not California. (An interesting side note: Iowa does not have the death penalty for such a crime; which would make a prosecutor less lenient in a plea deal.) Also, the plea deal has no bearing on child welfare services allowing a murder-arsonist take care of child.

#134. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2008 1:05 PM

@ANTP #133:

FANTASTIC JOB - I was hoping someone would be able to find the meaning of the title - the writers never title an epsiode without a reason - now we know why this ep was titled "Eggtown".

#135. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 22, 2008 1:08 PM

@133ANTP?

Egg-cellent!

#136. Posted by: lovelost at February 22, 2008 1:09 PM

@ → 132. Posted by: Mister_Grimm

Is it possible that the trial was held in California as a result of a "change of venue" motion?
>>> no, criminal trials are held in the location of the crimes. California has no contacts to the crimes alleged at the trial. The whole trial was factually wrong.

Any other ideas that might seem plausible?
>>> one poster above said maybe it was all a dream; Kate's fantasy about the best possible outcome if she left the island.

#137. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2008 1:16 PM

→ 134. Posted by: welh

I was wondering something similar about taping Mom's testimony. Especially considering her health.

So that was another "oops" by the writers to say the DA would be trying the case.

Thanks :O)

#138. Posted by: Marzo at February 22, 2008 1:18 PM

With all these "Time difference" theories that are going on here on my favorite little blog (i.e. Mac's), I wanted to point out something that I think was done intentionally.

Anybody remember the movie Frequency, and what it was about? If you don't remember, check out the premise on IMDB.

Guess who is in that movie--our beloved/hated Juliet. Any other guess as to who else is in that movie? . . . Kate's lawyer, whose real name is Shawn Doyle. Guess what Shawn's character's name was in Frequency . . . "Jack Shepard". Coincidence? I think not. The spelling of the name might be different, but don't tell me that it's still just a coincidence.

Character names, similar premise (rip in time), actor/actress, just too much going on here.

I wish I was a Producer, so I could mess with fan's heads all the time.

#139. Posted by: ANTP? at February 22, 2008 1:28 PM

I believe that Kate's comment to Jack about understanding Jack not wanting to see "the baby" is foreshadowing:

Jack will be resposnible for Claire's death. He will later learn that Claire was his sister and Aaron - therefore - his nephew...he will have difficulty coming to grips with the idea that he somehow "killed" Claire - his sister and Aaron's mum...

#140. Posted by: SonnyESQ at February 22, 2008 1:42 PM

@SonnyESQ, how did you come to that conclusion? I didn't get that impression at all.

#141. Posted by: schiano at February 22, 2008 1:49 PM

Was Kate's housekeeper Farraday's caretaker? Did we ever get a face shot of the caretaker, becuse they seemed to linger on her wiht Kate.

Nice hosue for a crook, totally stole Miles's money

great I Duddits reference from by Clementine

#142. Posted by: CC at February 22, 2008 1:59 PM

@SonnyESQ

That seems unlikely. If Claire is dead, and Jack knows about the family connection, I could see Jack doing the opposite - being more involved with Aaron, to help atone for causing the death.

With that said, perhaps Jack had a role in saving Aaron, which directly resulted in something horrible (such as death) to Claire or someone else -(gasp) Juliette?

For him, the sight of Aaron is a painful reminder of that decision....

#143. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 2:06 PM

Kate calling Aaron a baby when he is supposed to be about 3 years old seems weird. Was just a way for the writers to be vague. She could have said "I understand you don't want to see him". There was a new writer for this episode (along with Elizabeth Sarnoff), he doesn't seem to have the attention to detail as the others. Or give the audience the credit of being able to catch the errors.
Mac should give him some pointers :)

#144. Posted by: Rudy at February 22, 2008 2:14 PM

Mac, you're the man. Really. Your first 4 bullet point questions were the ones that came to my mind the most as well.

"→ 140. Posted by: SonnyESQ
Jack will be resposnible for Claire's death. He will later learn that Claire was his sister and Aaron - therefore - his nephew...he will have difficulty coming to grips with the idea that he somehow "killed" Claire - his sister and Aaron's mum..."

Brilliant Sonny, I think that's exactly how it will play out.

Aaron is definitely one of the Oceanic 6. He most definitely was on the plane, contrary to what some have said...he was just sharing Claire's seat! He was part of the crash and part of the 'rescue' and therefore has to be considered one of the 6.

They are giving us the impression so far that Kate is passing Aaron off as her own though. And of course it's Claire's Aaron...the producers podcasted that the ending of this ep would be 'huge'...it wouldn't be nearly as 'huge' if it wasn't Claire's Aaron that was revealed.

Oh, and Roxy...the producers have also said that there really was nothing hidden in the beach Ben/Kate scene, so no...Ben did not impregnate Kate!

I think it's possible that Miles is Ben's 'man on the boat' and the 3.2 million figure was some sort of coded message he was giving Ben. I think their whole conversation was riddled with codes.

So if the public knows the plane found at the bottom of the ocean was a 'scam' (based on the 6 being rescued), how is that going to be explained? Can't wait to see how that all plays out. Also, how do the 6 explain that the island where they were stranded can't be found now?

And I also can't wait to see what the heck the remaining Losties on the island were doing while the 6 were back home for so many years. Not sure if that will ever fully be shown, but I'm also sure all of the 6 will go back to the island somehow before the series ends.

#145. Posted by: JoePike at February 22, 2008 2:35 PM

Just realized that 3.2 (Miles requested dollar amount) is the reverse of 23 (one of the numbers). If that has already been pointed out, I apologize for being slow on the uptake!

#146. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 2:38 PM

I think Aaron looked between 2 and 3 yrs old.

What about the imperative premonition that CLAIRE needed to be the one who raised the baby???

#147. Posted by: Guv at February 22, 2008 2:50 PM

Any chance Charlotte is a the same Charlotte Lewis who played Kee Nang in 1986's The Golden Child? If so, then we all need to watch out for Sardo Numspa!!!!

I-I-I-I-I-I want the knife........
Puuuuuhhhhllleeeeeeeaaaasssssseeeeeeee

#148. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 22, 2008 2:54 PM

Oceanic 6 thoughts...

So - we know that the media showed potentially false footage of what happened to flight 815 (presuming that there is no multi-dimensional answer). Some powerful people seem to have a motive in distorting the true location of the island.

We've noticed that the Oceanic 6 are most certainly lying about the crash and what really happened on the island. Perhaps they are "supporting" the media version of the crash, and this is why they are being taken care of "financially". In other words, plane crashed in ocean, 8 of them made it to an island, of which 2 died before rescue?

This seems more likely than the newspapers reporting "815 Crash a Scam". I see more of a "Unbelievable - 6 Survived Flight815" headline, which is what makes them celebrities.

#149. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 3:02 PM

Re: #89

I believe that Miles was telling Ben a code. 3.2 million didn't actually mean anything about money. He was telling him something. And Ben responded with, oh not 3.1 or 3.3? This is like when Naomi used the code was "tell my sister..."
Seems like a good theory, right???

#150. Posted by: Lost Is Found at February 22, 2008 3:11 PM

Didn't last season's finale when Jack and Kate met near the airport, kate said something along the lines of, "I should go, he's waiting for me." Some assumed it was Sawyer, etc. now we know she most likely meant Aaron.

#151. Posted by: aitriad at February 22, 2008 3:12 PM

I think a writer from the TV Squad Web site has completely ripped off your summary style!!! That's BS man!!!

Here's the link.

http://tinyurl.com/2xaz36

#152. Posted by: Jason at February 22, 2008 3:34 PM

Something that I have been wondering about is Jack and the fact that every time I see him in a scene on the island he is drinking water. What up with this? It’s a mindless thing that is not usually shown like eating, sleeping, going to the bathroom, etc… Is there a clue here are am I just looking way to deep? If you remember way back in season one, he finds the water at the caves. He also made a comment that they would need 64 oz. of water a day to survive. Does he have a strange connection to the island water? I know there is probaly anything here but it something I have been wondering about.

#153. Posted by: micHael at February 22, 2008 3:34 PM

4-4 (75) Eggtown

Kate teases Sawyer
Ben teases Locke teases Miles
Aaron calls Kate "Mom"!

#154. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 22, 2008 3:35 PM

@ 148: RNM.

VIVA NEPAL!! VIVA NEPAL!! VIVA NEPAL!!

Please tell me you remember that part of the movie! I lose it everytime I think of Eddie Murphy singing on the airplane to the music in his headphones.

#155. Posted by: ANTP? at February 22, 2008 3:38 PM

@Jason: What's that thing about imitation and flattery? ;)

No biggie -- I don't think you can copyright a format, especially one that mirrors story structure.

#156. Posted by: mac at February 22, 2008 3:41 PM

I think I got the answer to the red jacket on the table in the room when Kate meets with her mother. It her prison Outfit. She is wearing a red jumpsuit early in the EP when she is talking with her lawyer. She probably changed into her street clothes and left the jumpsuit on the table.

#157. Posted by: micHael at February 22, 2008 3:44 PM

@150:

Good observation. Miles might as well be Ben's inside man on the boat, though viewers (and myself) are pointing towards someone else on the boat.

Additionally, wouldn't Charlotte or Daniel have warned the guys still @ the boat about a possible infiltrator? Charlotte heard (didn't she?) Ben confess about his spy. Though Charlotte and Daniel are being constantly watched.

#158. Posted by: Daniel Rivera at February 22, 2008 3:58 PM

I got it figured out !! probably not.

The missle was 24 hours plus 31 minuets late getting to the island. So the helicopter will still arrive at the boat. or maybe 2 years and 31 minuets.
love this show.

yea Mac !

#159. Posted by: SamFin at February 22, 2008 4:00 PM

-145 Joe Pike: Love the Ben/Miles coded-message angle. It would explain Miles' urgency to see Ben, and Ben's reply to be clear - "not 3.1 or 3.3?"

-149 Shikotee: I like your suggestion that The Six have been bribed to support the media claims.

-153 MicHael: I am constantly remarking to myself: Why is Jack always drinking water when no one else is? And if I recall correctly, Sayid even hands Jack a water bottle when they're standing near the helicopter (last week, I think). It seems so insignificant but, as we've learned with these writers, take nothing for granted. Or maybe the water just tastes better on the Island. We've only seen him drink cocktails post-rescue!

#160. Posted by: lovelost at February 22, 2008 4:08 PM

I just really don't get the whole Kate storyline. I understand she's hot, but PLEASE! Why is Jack in love with a murdering, lying, robbing self-absorbed grouch. yuck.

My thought was that more time had passed OFF the island than ON the island. If people thought they'd been on the island much longer then it would make sense that Kate could have gotten pregnant.

I thought it odd that Kate was so sure she wasn't pregnant. My first reaction was that she can't have children. Taking Aaron is her only chance to be a mother. No way Claire gave him up willingly or Kate stole him. Claire - R.I.P.

I still think the beach scene had a purpose - maybe kate struck a deal with Ben?

Miles as man on the boat theory - great!

Locke 'n Load is losing it big time.

Sawyer = spontaneous human combustion. Smoking!!!!

#161. Posted by: EthansGirl at February 22, 2008 4:12 PM

Hi Agin. Just rewatched the episode. Char does say "What do you remember" talking to Daniel. Not ESP.

BUT. The name of the judge on my tv"s cc - which has a lot of mispelled words-was Arthur Galzethron.

Can anyone verify the spelling?

Now what kind of name is that?

The kind of name like the funeral parlor had?

Can anyone make anything of it? Is it a clue to the kind of flash it is like the other one?

I found lots of words like True/North or Oz/Gale or Zero/Truth but I always have strange letters left over.

Maybe a phrase?

Maybe the name of RG?

#162. Posted by: Berkyo at February 22, 2008 4:16 PM

I can't seem to recall, where are the diamonds? Were they buried with a body? One other comment, was it just me, or did it look like Kate's house was on the island?

#163. Posted by: xanadude at February 22, 2008 4:16 PM

I do like the idea of the Ben/Miles code talk. If the extortion was for real, it is strange that he would do it so openly. Miles might not be the man on the boat, but this seems to be about something else than Miles saying that Ben is dead. How else would Miles be able to silence everyone else who knows Ben is alive?

#164. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 4:25 PM

@ Xanadude (love that name, BTW) The diamonds are buried six feet under with the (now dead) bodies of Nikki and Paolo. Sawyer chucked them in before they started covering the bodies up with dirt. Kinda as an act of "I'm not as much of a greedy cad as you think I am" thing after Hurley reminded him that there was nothing they could be used for on the island anyway. But...off the island!

#165. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 4:34 PM

I always knew Kate was a child-stealing whore. Okay, maybe not child-stealing, but i definitely always knew she was a whore. Does this mean Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic six? and who is going to believe that Kate was pregnant ON THE FLIGHT like Claire was, because unless she was, the timelines definitely don't match up. Of course this means Claire is dead, which sucks. At least she'll be in island underworld with Charlie. Free of the child-stealing whore...

#166. Posted by: forever_lost at February 22, 2008 4:37 PM

Jack said that eight of them survived the crash so who are the two who supposedly died before rescue? I think that in this lie sawyer is one of the two who died because if kate is posing as Aaron's mother then Sawyer would be a good eplanation for the father saying he died on the island before rescue.I do not think Aaron counts as one of the 6 because he wasnt really on the plane and the story is probally kate got pregnant on the island even if they say kate was pregnant when she got caught before the crash with some guys baby and had him on the island i dont think he counts as one of the 6.

#167. Posted by: carol at February 22, 2008 4:43 PM

Jack said that eight of them survived the crash so who are the two who supposedly died before rescue? I think that in this lie sawyer is one of the two who died because if kate is posing as Aaron's mother then Sawyer would be a good eplanation for the father saying he died on the island before rescue.I do not think Aaron counts as one of the 6 because he wasnt really on the plane and the story is probally kate got pregnant on the island even if they say kate was pregnant when she got caught before the crash with some guys baby and had him on the island i dont think he counts as one of the 6.

#168. Posted by: carol at February 22, 2008 4:44 PM

Jack said that eight of them survived the crash so who are the two who supposedly died before rescue? I think that in this lie sawyer is one of the two who died because if kate is posing as Aaron's mother then Sawyer would be a good eplanation for the father saying he died on the island before rescue.I do not think Aaron counts as one of the 6 because he wasnt really on the plane and the story is probally kate got pregnant on the island even if they say kate was pregnant when she got caught before the crash with some guys baby and had him on the island i dont think he counts as one of the 6.

#169. Posted by: carol at February 22, 2008 4:45 PM

Jack said that eight of them survived the crash so who are the two who supposedly died before rescue? I think that in this lie sawyer is one of the two who died because if kate is posing as Aaron's mother then Sawyer would be a good eplanation for the father saying he died on the island before rescue.I do not think Aaron counts as one of the 6 because he wasnt really on the plane and the story is probally kate got pregnant on the island even if they say kate was pregnant when she got caught before the crash with some guys baby and had him on the island i dont think he counts as one of the 6.

#170. Posted by: carol at February 22, 2008 4:45 PM

Jack said that eight of them survived the crash so who are the two who supposedly died before rescue? I think that in this lie sawyer is one of the two who died because if kate is posing as Aaron's mother then Sawyer would be a good eplanation for the father saying he died on the island before rescue.I do not think Aaron counts as one of the 6 because he wasnt really on the plane and the story is probally kate got pregnant on the island even if they say kate was pregnant when she got caught before the crash with some guys baby and had him on the island i dont think he counts as one of the 6.

#171. Posted by: carol at February 22, 2008 4:45 PM

Aaron is definitely a key lynchpin to Lost. Here is something that the producers told Kristen (from E!) way back BEFORE the pilot even aired:

"Emilie de Ravin's character's unborn child is connected to the history of the Island. Word is, that was the original pitch and storyboard for the full series that was presented by J.J. Abrams and his team back in the day, and it seems a fair bet that Aaron—the only child to be born on the Island—is still at the chewy-gooey epicenter of this ever more layered Lost mythology."

To all those speculating, Miles is not the man on the boat. Trust me (I've seen a spoiler. sigh)

#172. Posted by: GatorGal at February 22, 2008 4:48 PM

@162./ Berkyo

Judge's name was Arthur Galzethron

Anagram: Enthral Razor Slug

Last Name Galzethron only: anagram is Slang Other


#173. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2008 4:48 PM

@GatorGal - Thanks for helping my misrememberance(?)
There were 8 survivors but only 6 lived to be rescued. Could those 2 be nikki & paolo? The diamonds could help Kate live well w/o a settlement.

#174. Posted by: xanadude at February 22, 2008 4:51 PM

the latter anagram is spelled with S instead of Z

#175. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2008 4:52 PM

why do you guys think they said there were 8 survivors? is it like jack's pride that no one wanted to follow them? because that's the best thing i can think of.... someone let me know what they think.

#176. Posted by: forever_lost at February 22, 2008 4:56 PM

"organizing Lincoln-Douglas reenactments at the Lockington Gardens gazebo"

Precious moments, mac, precious moments. These are what make life worth living.

Thank you and GRAA

#177. Posted by: Dan at February 22, 2008 5:04 PM

kate is living large probably due to the same "large cash settlement" that sayid told the guy he murdered in the seychelles that he received from being a member of the O6.

does anyone know who makes the sunglasses kate was wearing to court. TDF. I want some, badly. pls let me know if anyone knows who the designer is.

#178. Posted by: cdnfan at February 22, 2008 5:04 PM

kate is living large probably due to the same "large cash settlement" that sayid told the guy he murdered in the seychelles that he received from being a member of the O6.

does anyone know who makes the sunglasses kate was wearing to court. TDF. I want some, badly. pls let me know if anyone knows who the designer is.

#179. Posted by: cdnfan at February 22, 2008 5:05 PM

who would win in a game of bloody knuckles??
jack? or locke?

miles or sawyer???(there basically character twins only sawyers way more BA)

dan, or frank???

frank or mr. friendly??

hmmm...i shall ponder this....

#180. Posted by: kaseygirl106 at February 22, 2008 5:05 PM

kate is living large probably due to the same "large cash settlement" that sayid told the guy he murdered in the seychelles that he received from being a member of the O6.

does anyone know who makes the sunglasses kate was wearing to court. TDF. I want some, badly. pls let me know if anyone knows who the designer is.

#181. Posted by: cdnfan at February 22, 2008 5:06 PM

@kaseygirl

i can see hurley killing sawyer at bloody knuckles..

they both spin their coins.... tension is high... LOST music swells... suddenly, sawyer's dharma coin drops.

Hurley: Yeah, dude! *shoots coin at sawyer's knuckles* that was for lardo! *shoots coin again* that was for Jaba! *shoots coin again* and THAT was for Jumbotron!!!!!

oh, sweet revenge.

#182. Posted by: forever_lost at February 22, 2008 5:21 PM

@forever_lost

obviously jack lied becouse he was told to. the point of him being questioned was to make kate seem like a better person and get her off the hook.

did anyone else notice that kates house looked like it was on the island?? probly just shot it there..

#183. Posted by: kaseygirl106 at February 22, 2008 5:26 PM

Q: How long can you hold a pinless grenade in your mouth?

A: For the rest of your life.

#184. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 6:09 PM

@140/SonnyESQ "I believe that Kate's comment to Jack about understanding Jack not wanting to see "the baby" is foreshadowing..."

Um... wouldn't that be backshadowing?

#185. Posted by: b at February 22, 2008 6:16 PM

Two things.
1 - On last weeks coming attractions for this week they said that another of the "Oceanic 6" will be revealed. That leads me to belive that it has to be Aaron. I do not believe that they would suddenly start showing someone now, and later in the season reveal him as a passenger.


2 - I think revealing the fast forward stuff makes some of the current story boring/meaningless. So Miles says he will keep quiet for 3.2 mil, big deal. Last weeks FF shows Ben is alive and well so it doesn't matter whether he gives him the money or not because I already know he lives. I hope the rest of the FFs don't turn me off to the story completely.

#186. Posted by: opserc at February 22, 2008 6:28 PM

@185 b-

Very nice. I stand corrected...

#187. Posted by: SonnyESQ at February 22, 2008 7:16 PM

okay, so WOW. that's pretty much all i gotta say for this episode. I seriously think my heart may have skipped a beat.

anyway, i'm not going to lie, i actually did consider the fact that aaron may have been kate's so called, "son".

so back to my point...
1. I don't think Aaron would count as one of the "Oceanic 6", or I don't think that he SHOULD count.
2. Ben, Juliet, Desmond and the other's that weren't on Oceanic 815 would not be counted as the "Oceanic 6"
3. Jack's a liar, but I think Mac made that quite clear.
4. It seems that everything that is happeneing this season is contradicting what happened in the season finale of season 3 in, "Through the Looking Glass"
5. Does the Freighter know that Ben has a spy? If so, are they looking for him/her?
6. Was Claire one of the other two in the "survivors"? Why 8? What happened in between!?!?!
7. I am VERY curious as to how they will connect everything together.

(1) Ok... so first off... How could the public possibly believe that Aaron is Kate's son. Which is why I don't think he would be counted as one of the "Oceanic 6".

Kate was NOT at least 7 months pregnant when she got on the plane, and I think everyone knows that. According to Aaron's age, it wouldn't make ANY SENSE whatsoever that he is her child.

Either they know that she adopted him, or they're idiots.

It seems obvious that the baby was Claire's, or just not Kate's.

And if for some reason they think he was concieved on the island and born off the island, which wouldn't make any sense, that would mean that he wasn't on Oceanic 815 which would mean that he cannot be one of the "Oceanic 6".

(2)It seems as though Ben wants everyone to think he's dead. So how did he get off the island? Was there a "hidden submarine" that he didn't want anyone else to know about?

Obviously they would recognize him if they see him. It's not like he got plastic surgery or is wearing a disguise.

THE LIST is killing me. Who are the people on the list?

Also, they can't possibly be counted as part of the "Oceanic 6". Unless Desmond dies, it seems like he's going to get rescued and possibly make up with Penelope. Is she the source of all this chaos?

(3) Jack is a liar. Why is he giving Kate credit for what he did? Apparently that wasn't the first time he told that story since Kate says to him, "I've heard this story so many times" blah blah blah... We can see why it would be relevant to the case, but why before?

Maybe Jack did find out that Claire is his sister, and he's too hurt by seeing Aaron. Or maybe Kate stole Aaron from Claire and Jack isn't too happy about that.

(4)In "Through the Looking Glass", Jack was depressed and didn't want to live anymore. He wanted to go back to the island and Kate didn't. He hoped for a plane to crash that he was aboard.

Does Jack want to go back for the sake of the other survivors?

How did the other's hide from everyone else, and from getting rescued?

Ben says in "The Economist" to Sayid, he asks him, "you do want to help your friends, don't you?" Was he referring to the others of the "Oceanic 6" or the people that still remain on the island?

Wouldn't someone try to have look for them? If they are living in the Barracks, woudln't a helicopor have spotted "Bensylvania"?

Is one of the people that weren't on Oceanic 815 (Juliet, Ben, Desmond), pretending to be one of them?

(5)If the Freighter was not aware that Ben had a spy on their ship, then did Charlotte or Daniel tell them? Do they know that there's someone there giving Ben all this information?

If they are looking for the worm, then what's going on there? Is there chaos on board the Freighter?

(6)Obviously now, Claire can not be one of the "Oceanic 6" unless she is pretending that Aaron is not her son. So was she one of the "Oceanic 8", have the kid, the die?

Like Mac said, why 8? If you're going to lie about it, why not just 6?

Did they decide to use Nikki and Paulo as the other two? Make it random... or just someone like them that didn't have much to do with whatever happened there.

And finally...
(7) It seems as thuogh something HUGE happened in between. It feels like there is a BIG HOLE between the "present" and the "future".

I guess Locke can't be the one in the coffin anymore... since unless someone forced him off the island, it doesn't seem like he got off.

Sorry for the rambling.

Thanks again Mac... I live for this show. =D

#188. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 22, 2008 7:18 PM

Point on Danny Faraday: Didn't Naomi call him a head case when Abaddon was giving her the assignment? So everyone on the crew knows he has some sort of condition.

-TP

#189. Posted by: tpull at February 22, 2008 7:19 PM

I don't know about ya'll, but being in Bennsylvania with that boxed wine and ...ahem...Sawyer (of course) wouldn't be too bad.

Also, was anyone else disappointed by the lack of eggs in this episode? I do appreciate ANTP?'s reference though. I pictured Kate on a colorful easteregg hunt with her child.

I can't wait to watch this episode again tonight!

Totally agree with the Miles Ben connection.

I hate Locke. What an %$#@ and then he kicks out Kate??!! I mean, are we in middle school here??

#1 @bccre8ve - thanks for getting my back there.

#190. Posted by: meg...MIF at February 22, 2008 7:23 PM

I think it's a Locke/ben competition thing going on. Ben could easily get his people to spring him. Ben seems to enjoy toying with Locke. When he made the comment that Locke was still "Lost" and then Locke threw the tray against the wall he looked so satisifed.

#191. Posted by: meg at February 22, 2008 7:31 PM

I think we must not forget that there could still be quite a bit of time left before the Six getting off the island.

We think they're getting off soon because of the chopper and all, but they might just be throwing us a curve ball.

Maybe their ultimate rescue has nothing to do with the freighter...who knows...maybe the teleporter type thing (remember the polar bear in Tunisia) starts working again and it gets them off.

This would partly explain Aaron's age and Jack's greying temples (Hi I'm Jack, one of the Oceanic Six, after having spent some time on a deserted island, I used Grecian-Formula and kept just a touch of grey...)

The people who brougt up Claires's flashback reminded me that Aaron has always been supposed to be an important character. I wonder if it's this importance that's freaking Jack out, because I just can't believe that it's a guilt trip.

Come on, Kate wants you, you want her, but the GUILT is just to much...I don't buy it, there's got to be something more.

Going back to the L.A. court thing. The more problems that are pointed out, the more I think somethins up. Isn't it possible that there are just to many mistakes for them to be mistakes?

#192. Posted by: One of the Six at February 22, 2008 7:36 PM

OK - i don't have verbatim words as spoken by actors, but we know that:

Ben says in "The Economist" to Sayid, he asks him, "you do want to help your friends, don't you?"

And, when Abaddon visits Hurley he says "Are they still alive?"

And when Jack visits with Kate after the near-jumping-off-bridge incident, he says "we need to go back kate"

And when jack visits Hurley in the gym, Hurley says something like "they need us" or "we need to go back".

SO, it's obvious that some remain on the island...

are they there b/c they are being held there by Ben as insurance.. so that the O6 do and say what he wants (and so that sayid keeps killing for him)...

or are they there b/c they missed the window of opportunity to be rescued...

or are they there by choice?

the spy on the freighter has got to be Michael.... i'll be damned if i am wrong...

#193. Posted by: cdnfan at February 22, 2008 7:39 PM

That grenade Locke gave Miles for breakfast sure gives a new meaning to "SNAP, CRACKLE, POP"

#194. Posted by: One of the Six at February 22, 2008 7:40 PM

Been reading for about a year & a half but this is my first post...

Halfway through the posts and I can't stand it anymore, I have to comment on the makeup of the Oceanic 6. According to Jack's story, eight people survived the crash but two of those died not long after the crash. That leaves six and ONLY six survivors who also get off the island. Those six HAVE TO BE the Oceanic 6. Jack, Kate, Hurley, & Sayid are all known as survivors who got off the island thus all four are part of the Oceanic 6. Aaron was not a survivor of the plane crash because he was not a passenger on the plane and thus is NOT one of the 6.

I believe Micheal & Walt are the other two since they are already off the island somewhere doing God knows what (whatever it is they are doing I strongly believe it has nothing to do with the freighter).

Kate is clearly passing off Aaron as her own child.

#195. Posted by: Debunker at February 22, 2008 7:46 PM

@45 just lost - about the "smart brainiac people having poor memories about simple stuff" :
to paraphrase Douglas Adams, "When you have a brain the size of a planet, sometimes you miss the small stuff."

I think Dan is getting so "lost" in his physics that he can't handle the day-to-day basics, like not wearing a tie for island excursions or remembering three items in succession.
@ welh : the trial had so many holes, but it served a purpose, I guess. I'm trying to ignore it, but they're really big holes.

I've seen references to Ben as Yoda and the Dark Lord - is anyone thinking about Lord of the Rings?

BEN is GOLLUM!

The good guys (?) have to keep him around, even though they know he'll stab them in the back as soon as he gets a chance. Ben will do anything to protect his "precious" island. And the buggy eyes just clinch it.

The only thing weirder than Kate going home to Aaron would have been Kate going home to Ben. (YUCK - sorry meg)

#196. Posted by: jaybee at February 22, 2008 8:03 PM

Great Line...Juliet..."Maybe we should try another number, like 911"

In all this time, hard to believe Kate hasn't gotten stuck babysitting Aaron yet...just a thought.

Why doesn't Locke bother to knock when he goes into Kate's place?? and they don't even question it, she and Claire.

When Miles confronted Kate with the information they all know about her, and then said, "who knows, maybe you didn't survive the crash" It made me think that tough decisions were made amongst the Losties. Decisions that decided who should say and who should go. Not just by chance who was the Oceanic 6. Just not sure why Claire wouldn't be paired with Aaron.

#197. Posted by: meg at February 22, 2008 8:04 PM

It was another great episode. Not sure what the negative vibe is about from some?

#198. Posted by: R at February 22, 2008 8:13 PM

***possible spoiler****

someone told me that sun and jin complete the O6. Aaron is not considered part of O6 - but since the trailers said another member would be revealed last night, kinda hard not to believe that he isn't one of them.

#199. Posted by: goolyramsamsam at February 22, 2008 8:27 PM

It's not so much that it was a bad episode - it just feels like the weakest one so far this season. This could also be because the last two episodes were fantastic, and this one, well.... is not?

I'm fine with Kate as a character on the island. I guess I felt her back stories got pretty redundant (felt like filler), so it is hard to shake off.

Would have been sweet if her ex husband (Nathan Fillion) would have shown up at the trial....

#200. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2008 8:33 PM

Could it be that Jack is hesitant to see Kate's boy because he is convinced it is Sawyer's?

#201. Posted by: dumbi at February 22, 2008 8:35 PM

@welh Not to mention that the building she went into was clearly the the courthouse in downtown Honolulu...and her house at the end was in/near Hawaii Kai... ;)

The only thing I have to add to the conversationis that I missed the episode last night, so I watched it tonight on ABC's streaming HD website, and man, is that site pretty sweet!

#202. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 22, 2008 9:05 PM

wait a minute, post #188
→ 188. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 22, 2008 07:18 PM

I do believe you and I need to talk!!! You thought you slipped that one past me....yet, the wine is just making me sharper...:)

#203. Posted by: meg at February 22, 2008 9:16 PM

I like the idea that Jack doesn't want to see the baby becuase he thinks it's Sawyers.

Kate can tell Sawyer that she's sure she's not pregnant because between the time they were together in the cage and now she would have had a period. However, she could also be lying straight out since we know she's pretty good at that.
I don't think they actually went all the way in Sawyer's bed in this ep - he mentions something about her being tired or out of sorts the night before, but she should be fine that morning. Up until he opens his mouth anyway.

#204. Posted by: Angelkiss82 at February 22, 2008 9:42 PM

@200/shikotee "Would have been sweet if her ex husband (Nathan Fillion) would have shown up at the trial..."

I agree. I am a big Captain Tight Pants fan. "I aim to misbehave!"

#205. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 22, 2008 9:58 PM

Regarding post #96 from Roxy....

I, too, have always thought that Ben did something to Kate after that breakfast on the beach. Here are my reasons why-

1. First, and foremost, what Ben tells her at breakfast- "The next two weeks are going to be very unpleasant."

2. When Kate is brought to the cages, and sees Sawyer, she is clearly quite shaken up.

3. In the same scene you can also tell that her wrists are badly cut and bleeding as if she had been violently struggling to protect and/or free herself.

4. After being left alone at the cages Sawyer asks Kate if they hurt her. She is still upset and seems to nod yes.

Having been a fan of this show since day one (and the way the writers can and will sit on plotlines for long periods of time), I can't help but think that that scene laid the foundation for future plot lines. And that maybe it ties into the Kate/Aaron/pregnant women storylines that are unfolding now...

Time will tell....

Anyway, long time reader, first time poster...great recaps from Mac and great comments always!

#206. Posted by: scorpio95628 at February 22, 2008 10:43 PM

@113 Randy
"And I have a dollar that says Walt is Ben's man on the boat."

And I have a dollar that says we haven't met Ben's man on the boat yet.

oops, gotta go... my dollar is saying something else now...

#207. Posted by: Frogurt at February 22, 2008 10:54 PM

Post 188..."Kate was NOT at least 7 months pregnant when she got on the plane, and I think everyone knows that. According to Aaron's age, it wouldn't make ANY SENSE whatsoever that he is her child."

O.K., Devil's advocate here, but who other than the 8 would have know if Kate was or was't knocked up? She was arrested in Australia, and everyone else other than the 6 (or 8?) have been lying (according to last night's epi, and Jack S3 finale), or are dead from the crash, according to the rest of the world. Just a thought...

#208. Posted by: Three men and a baby...I counted Hugo twice at February 23, 2008 12:33 AM

Has any one come to the conclusion that:

1) there is no boat

2) Miles is one Ben's henchman

3) Miles was using coded words when he spoke to Ben such as "3.2 million"

#209. Posted by: Guy at February 23, 2008 1:01 AM

I'm not sure Aaron or Eric is Claire's Aaron. Why would she be so excited to be around Claire's Aaron?

Is it possible that her son IS her son and the father is Sawyer. Sawyer eventually dies for Kate/Jack/whoever and THAT is why Jack doesn't want to be around her. He is Sawyer's son, and he is dead.

I think the producer's said these flash forwards are about a year and half after present?

→ 17. Posted by: Nathan at February 22, 2008 12:18 AM

THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS, EXACTLY!

#210. Posted by: Samantha at February 23, 2008 1:37 AM

Mr. Grimm-did you watch the episode? Or are you just lost in your fantasy that Jack and Kate might still have a chance?

#211. Posted by: Rebecca at February 23, 2008 1:58 AM

I was thinking about the fact that one of the Freighters, I believe it was Frank, told Dan to call the freighter but hang up if Minkowski answered. Perhaps they know they have a mole and know it's Minkowski.

I think Lost has fried some of our brains. I can see no logical reason that the Aaron she hugs at the end of the episode is not Claire's Aaron. We have been thrown for a few loops, but this would be kind of cheap. But, maybe Aaron was transported of the island, like the polar bear and rabbit, and that is why he isn't one of the six. Yeah, that is pretty far fetched, huh?

#212. Posted by: Raider at February 23, 2008 2:30 AM

This episode had so many plot holes you could drive a truck through them:

1) If Kate was "worried about the possibility of pregnancy" then she would NOT have joined Locke. She would have wanted to get off the island as fast as her legs could carry her, since she knew about women dying.

2) If Kate was "not staying for Sawyer", but to "use" Sawyer to get information from Miles....well, someone else said she could have gotten that info from any of the other boaties.

3) If the whole point of the episode was to tell us that Kate got off the murder charge, but had to stay in California, then that could have been done in all of 5 minutes. Therefore, the Jack and Aaron thing have to mean SOMETHING, but it was a cheap trick to have us watch all that dribble just to get to the last line of the show.

4) Kate is going to abandon the Beach folks, spend the night with Sawyer, (but in a Monica Lewinsky style, we suppose, and "not have sex,").....then just leave him because he's happy she's not pregnant......then just expect that the beach folks will take her back? What was her character's motivation for any of this?

Basically, this was a sloppy episode with sloppy writing (everyone else has mentioned the courtroom inconsistencies, etc.) and very few new developments.

However, the new previews for next week's eps on darkufo look promising...!

#213. Posted by: taylor0822 at February 23, 2008 7:27 AM

This episode had so many plot holes you could drive a truck through them:

1) If Kate was "worried about the possibility of pregnancy" then she would NOT have joined Locke. She would have wanted to get off the island as fast as her legs could carry her, since she knew about women dying.

2) If Kate was "not staying for Sawyer", but to "use" Sawyer to get information from Miles....well, someone else said she could have gotten that info from any of the other boaties.

3) If the whole point of the episode was to tell us that Kate got off the murder charge, but had to stay in California, then that could have been done in all of 5 minutes. Therefore, the Jack and Aaron thing have to mean SOMETHING, but it was a cheap trick to have us watch all that dribble just to get to the last line of the show.

4) Kate is going to abandon the Beach folks, spend the night with Sawyer, (but in a Monica Lewinsky style, we suppose, and "not have sex,").....then just leave him because he's happy she's not pregnant......then just expect that the beach folks will take her back? What was her character's motivation for any of this?

Basically, this was a sloppy episode with sloppy writing (everyone else has mentioned the courtroom inconsistencies, etc.) and very few new developments.

However, the new previews for next week's eps on darkufo look promising...!

#214. Posted by: taylor0822 at February 23, 2008 7:28 AM

Just a comment about Kate passing off Aaron as her own and those saying it's impossible. Two points:

1.) She was a fugitive for a fair bit of time wasn't she? Was she even close enough to anyone at the time she got on the plane for anyone in the general public to say "Wait a second, she wasn't pregnant." The only people who could answer that would be the marshall, and he's dead, and the Oceanic 6, and they are lying anyway. So in my mind, she most certainly could have gotten away with saying she was pregnant when she got on that plane and delivered that baby after the crash.

If someone has some hard objective evidence to refute this, let me know, I'd be curious as I'm guessing this is the angle that the writers will be using.

2.) One other angle is that once they get off, it's quite possible that the time in the real world is considerably different than what they thought. The 6 could have stepped off that island and found out that they were gone for a year and a half or even 7-9 months. That would be another way for Kate to get away with claiming the baby was hers.

That said, I'd say the baby was Claires, and you have to say that he was part of the six. The previews CLEARLY stated that we'd be revealed another one of the Oceanic 6, so if it wasn't Aaron, who the heck else was introduced to us in this weeks episode to make us feel otherwise?

Boy, this show makes my head spin.

#215. Posted by: petew at February 23, 2008 7:51 AM

What if at the end of Through the Looking Glass when Jack tells Kate he wants to go back they did go back!What if the whole time the series has been going on it's there second time on the island.In the first episode of season 1 you see Jack for the first time walking out of the jungle.Kate would still have been a fugitive because she fled probation.That would explain the news footage of the plane underwater and Jack saying there were 8 survivors.maybe there were 8 survivors on the first plane.

#216. Posted by: moog at February 23, 2008 8:57 AM

Maybe Kate's Aaron is named *after* Claire's Aaron ;)

#217. Posted by: mac at February 23, 2008 9:42 AM

@ mac 217

I also wondered, but would the writers really be that sneaky.

The bed scene with Sawyer made me reflect that she seemed to be testing him, to see his reaction. Thus when he almost started to breakdance when she told him she wasn't pregnant, I think she knew then that she didn't want her child to have him as a father.

Now this doesn't mean she Is pregnant but it doesn't exclude it either.

#218. Posted by: One of the Six at February 23, 2008 10:00 AM

@94 mapache

I like your theory that the $3.2 million could be code for the direction to get off the island. I too thought the amount was very odd. Why 3.2?
That being said, could Miles be Ben's man on the boat? That's all for now.

#219. Posted by: onelostdude at February 23, 2008 10:13 AM

@ bcre8ve and ishtvan

charlotte did actually say "tell me what you remember" before he told her what he thought the cards were.

i guess she could have meant, "tell me what you remember from your psychic flash thing but i highly doubt it.

i agree --- Mac, you didn't really jump on most of the quotes that i thouhgt you would. but i knew right when i heard the "scooby -dooed" thing hurley said that you would put it under the best quote.

@ Clementine
I didn't really notice anything about Down Syndrome. I assumed he was just waking up from his nap and he was wiping his face and all.

I guess it is possible that he does have down syndrome... it does make sense that he didn't show symptoms on the island but i think he wouldn't have said "hi mommy" like that and he wouldn't have watched tv or whatever.

They didn't really make it seem like he had it, so i highly doubt that as well.

IN ADDITION, if he had down syndrome, they probably wouldn't have been able to make him speak in court. weren't they thinking about making him testify?

@ Welh
And yeah, i was thinking the same thing with the prosecution going first, not the defense in a court trial. But i guess they did it for television purposes. they made everything else about the trial quite accurate.

That's about all i have for now.

#220. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 23, 2008 11:25 AM

@ Meg

Are you referring to the fact that "i love benjamin linus"??

Haha, i do, i really do.

#221. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 23, 2008 11:32 AM

Ok, is there any possible connection between the movie "Frequency" and Lost? Now we have the villian serial-killer playing Kate's lawyer,

and his name was Jack Sheppherd in the movie :)

and the mom in the movie goes on to play Juliet.

any possible link? Or do we chalk that up to good hollywood networking?

#222. Posted by: taylor0822 at February 23, 2008 12:16 PM

What if they are hiding Aaron from somebody or something? Maybe Claire is not dead. Just a thought.

#223. Posted by: Hutch at February 23, 2008 1:01 PM

@65 "3 men and a baby" says Kate's mom was going to die and he knew because he saw a red blazer on the table.

@70 bytl and @83 AC both don't understand his comment.

@157 micHael says something about it being a prison outfit for Kate.

I think what "3 men and a baby" is subtly referring to is the old Star Trek TV series where the characters had different colored uniforms based on their jobs (commanders, science officers, medical personnel, etc) and it always seemed that when a landing party was sent down to a planet, if there was a new crewman (one we hadn't met before) in a red uniform on the team, he would usually get killed on the planet. Hence the reference to a red blazer being an omen of death.

#224. Posted by: ardie at February 23, 2008 3:06 PM

Me agin.....Regarding the anagram for Arthur Galzethron.
I got it!
It's "A RAZOR LENGTH RUTH"

Okay, I guess there is no anagram, it's just a goofy name.......Helped pass a cold and snowy day here. Unless there is a Bearded Ruth on the freighter.

#225. Posted by: Berkyo at February 23, 2008 3:09 PM

I am sorry if my post sounds dense. I have watched Lost since the beginning but I usually don't make comments everyone always seems so much more observant than I. People keep talking about Jack being Claire's brother and Aaron's uncle but do we know that for sure? I don't remember Lost addressing this particular rumour.

#226. Posted by: El at February 23, 2008 3:20 PM

WHO are the Oceanic 6?

From what I've been following, 5 of the oceanic 6 have already been identified. They are :
1) Jack
2) Kate
3) Hurley
4) Sayid **
5) Aaron ***
6) ?????
** I think Sayid was being truthful. Why would he lie about something too easy to disprove?

*** I don't agree that Aaron wouldn't be one of the 6 on the basis that he was unborn. Even in utero, he still survived the crash. (Unless Aaron got off the Island by other means and the public believes Kate gave birth before 815 took off.)

The preview for this episode DID promise that another of the O6 would be revealed. (Although that could actually have been KATE since the S03 ending only IMPLIED that Kate was one of the O6)

Hopefully, this will get clarified on a podcast, because I don't think the producers are trying to play tricks with us about the 6.

For instance, if 5 of the 6 are already known, then Jin and Sun won't round out the field and spoilers postings to that effect will prove untrue.

Also, notwithstanding identity theft, rule out anyone not on the plane including Ben, Juliet, or Desmond.

That leaves the following possibilities and my projected odds`:

Jin 5-1 If the pair don't get off the island together, I think Jin is more likely to leave without Sun than the other way. He did get on that raft without her. The scene where he professes his mastery of the English language could be a setup to his forward flashes off the Island without Sun playing interpreter.

Sun 6-1 The fact that Suns father may have a hand in things both on and off the island brings her odds way lower. Also, am I correct that Jin and Sun are the only other 815 passengers that are the center of an already scripted episode that could possibly be a flash forward? (I'm pretty sure that any Michael story would be a flashback)

Cindy 10-1 Great PR for Oceanic to have a flight attendant survive. Also to lend some credibility to the cover story.

Sawyer 20-1 He's a survivor. If things go bad on the island, he'll jump ship. He did buy his way on to the raft. If there were a Sawyer centric episode on the radar, I would've made that 10-1.

Michael 40-1 He was on the plane. We know we'll see him again. I still think he's in the coffin, if not one of the O6.

Walt 60-1 Also on the plane and apparently a little taller now. No reason he can't be one of the 6 but I don't see it.

Bernard 100-1 Would never leave the island without Rose so this factors in the odds that Rose will be killed off.

Claire 200-1 The Aaron reveal makes her odds of surviving season pretty slim.

Rose 700-1 Why would Rose ever want to leave? Even if she did, how likely is it that Rose would be willing to lie to the world?

Vincent 800-1 Unlikely he was one of the 6 who needed Kate's help to doggy paddle to shore.

Locke 1,000-1 He's protecting the Island, plus he wants to continue using his legs.

#227. Posted by: vacc at February 23, 2008 3:28 PM

@El/226 Christian Shepherd is the father fo both Jack and Claire, anbd that has been pretty firmly established through flashbacks. As of "present" (Island time), they are not themselves aware of their shared paternity.

#228. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 23, 2008 3:36 PM

I've been trying to post this for some time, but it keeps asking for approval, and I guess Mac is not giving it?

After all the heavy thought processes trying to figure things out, perhaps everyone is due for a moment of mental relaxation. Check out this Lost-esque parody:

tinyurl dot com /ywo5mj

Pretty Funny!

#229. Posted by: shikotee at February 23, 2008 3:39 PM

Thanks Fenway, love the show but it's so hard for me to remember what is on the show and what is speculated about on the blog!!

#230. Posted by: El at February 23, 2008 3:42 PM

→ 195. Posted by: Debunker
"Aaron was not a survivor of the plane crash because he was not a passenger on the plane and thus is NOT one of the 6."

Hmmmm...then how did Aaron get on the island? He was on the plane. True, he was not a paying passenger, but he was actually on the plane and crashed on the island like everyone else. So what if he wasn't born yet and wasn't officially on the manifest? He was on the island because of the crash, and is now off the island with Kate, a known 6'er. Therefore, Aaron was one of the ones rescued. Therefore, Aaron is one of the 6.

It is interesting though that Kate seems to be passing off Aaron as her own child...but really we don't know that for sure. We don't have enough info yet to know if she adopted Claire's kid or if he got teleported off the island (in which case...he wouldn't be one of the 6!) and she's claiming he's her own.

And here's me beating a dead horse again (a horse that's actually smokey)...the producers said in a podcast that the beach scene between Ben and Kate was nothing more than what was actually seen.

#231. Posted by: JoePike at February 23, 2008 4:40 PM

I think that it IS Claire's Aaron and because he was born on the Island (remember how rare that is) he is "special" like Walt was special. That is why the lawyer expected him to be able to testify despite his young age. And possibly, one of his gifts is a phenomenal memory but he isn't old enough to be "discrete" so Kate doesn't want him around anyone who would ask him questions and get answers that don't line up with the approved lies.
And the reason Jack doesn't want to be around him is that his gifts creep Jack out like Walt's gifts creeped out his step-dad.

#232. Posted by: littlelostlamb at February 23, 2008 5:11 PM

#229 Shikotee
tinyurl dot com /ywo5mj

Could you check this as it does not work

#233. Posted by: btly at February 23, 2008 5:21 PM

some additions to previous comments...

@ Vikki - #67
Sayid tells the guy on the golf course before he shoots him that he IS one of the "Oceanic 6". Also, the girl that Sayid was sleeping with in Berlin that was supposedly "The Economist's" employee or assistant, she said that Sayid looks "familiar" to her. Obviously she saw him on television.

Maybe when she found out that Sayid was one of them, she called "the Economist" and they came up with a plan.

According to your theory, the three DEFINITE people are only
1. Jack
2. Kate
3. Hurley

I belive that sayid IS #4
and Aaron is NOT #5.

I guess i made that clear earlier.

Kate probably didn't want her mother to see aaron because her mother was a B**** to her and she was trying to make a "deal" with her. On top of that, she is the one that made Kate a fugitive and after all that she wanted to testify AGAINST her in court! If my mother did all that to me, i probably wouldn't want her to see my son either. I don't think it's because Aaron isn't her biological son.

It makes sense that Michael and Walt could be the other two in the Oceanic 8. IF they survived, which they most likely did, the Oceanic Airlines and the people that "know" the Flight Manifest would know that they were on Oceanic 815 because of the Manifest. BUT it IS possible that they don't want to be apart of the publicity like someone mentioned earlier.

BUT that theory rules out the fact that they died, and in that case, they must me #5 and 6, not 7 and 8. Even though the public may not know their identity, the fact that they are still alive puts them in that category.

Did Jack ever say that the other two died? Because if he didn't, it is possible that they are 7 and 8.

OR they could still be on the island?

Someone said earlier that Michael and Walt could have been circling the island for all that time and someone found them or soemthing like that. The problem with that is the boat is small. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that they could have survived that long on that boat with that little food and water for the both of them. It is possible that they just decided to stay on the island because they weren't getting anywhere by circling it so they ended up on the other side of the island which is why nobody else found them.

AND let's assume Locke's vision of Walt was ACTUALLY Walt. Maybe Michael didn't want anything to do with the rest of the survivors? But then Walt was searching for something, witnessed the whole shooting from Ben to Locke then decided that he wanted to help him?

Does that sound too bougus?

@ 25 (Don't know the name) and #72 - BEMH
Locke was out of character. Maybe the grenade is a FAKE? Apparently Miles is valuable to Locke. Why would want to put his life in danger? What if Miles decided that his life isn't worth living for and he rather die? Where would that leave Locke if the grenade was real? Obviously Locke considered that before he gave Miles his "breakfeast".

ON TOP of all of that, how is Locke going to get the grenade away in time before they both become Arzts? (if it was real). He told Miles that he WILL make him talk and all. How is Locke going to make him talk with the grenade in his mouth? If the grenade was real, when Locke is going to take it out of Miles' mouth, then either keep his hand on the trigger or something so they don't turn into Arzt.

Maybe that was a stupid comment? I don't know much about grenades.

@ BluSerene - #75
The "Oceanic 6" MUST HAVE agreed on a story because then if everyone says something different (cough, hurley, cough) then whatever they're lying for, could be caught.

But let's not acknowledge Kate's trial as the reason for the lie...
Why this particular story?

Once again, apparently Jack has told the story "so many times" and Kate is starting to think that Jack may be "starting to actually believe" it himself.

@ momofdjalandjim - #76
They probably got money for the plane crash from Oceanic Airlines to "redeem" them of their pain.

We already know they got a "golden pass" for Oceanic Airlines that lets them go on a plane whenever they want. But who would want to ever go on a plane again (what NORMAL person would ever want to go on a plane again) other than old, bearded, Jack here... which is why they probably gave them money as well.

The golden pass doesn't seem like it would make up for being stranded on an island for 98 + days... and from going through all they have gone through.

Also, since the world is about money, maybe they felt that would be a good way to make up for everything.

________________________________________

Sayid doesn't seem "happy" working for Ben. (Ha, but i would be.) After all, he promised himself that he would never torture or kill another human being again. Even though the broke that promise multiple times... I don't know.

Something obviously happened with Clire and Jack that made him not want to see Aaron...
1. He did something that caused Claire to die, therefore, he feels guilty.
2. He feels guilty leaving everyone else on the island (with someone else? bad guys? others?)
3. He knows Claire is his HERMANA (sister). (Sorry, i felt like using some spanish).
4. Kate stole him, and he doesn't agree with that act on Kate's part.

I guess before they left the island they could have come up with a plan on how they are going to "cover up" everything when they get home. Maybe Claire agreed to let Kate take Aaron for a reason that they encountered in the time between the "present" and the "future".

ANOTHER possibility is that Kate became Aaron's godmother and Claire wanted her to take care of him after she died.

...just some additional thoughts

I have a feeling i'm going to become one of the "regulars" here. I used to just read the review then some of the comments.

=D <-- that looks a bit evil... maybe it's just me.

#234. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 23, 2008 5:23 PM

I'm sticking to my guns on this one, Aaron is not one of the 6.

The promo immediately following episode 3 DOES mention the next member of the 6 but DOES NOT specifically say that person will be revealed.

#235. Posted by: Debunker at February 23, 2008 5:46 PM

Just read all(most) of the posts. Great review MAC, I actually had to read your review first as my DVR screwed up recording the episode and I had to wait to watch it online.

Albeit a Kate episode which is always more about emotions than reveals, it still had its moments. Here's my thoughts:

“Eggtown” - I was wondering about the last eggs for Ben and Locke killing the chicken. And it hit me that eggs are part of the chicken’s fertility cycle. Yet on the island we know HUMANS can’t procreate, so the question is can ANIMALS? So how did those eggs come to be, were they part of a DHARMA drop (hard to do). Or were they sent via submarine. Locke did smell them to see if they had gone bad. Basically I am wondering which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I need to know what day it is. I believe the HO-HO-HO’s in Hurley’s episode says it’s Christmas eve. But the helicopter has been gone for at least a day, and Kate spent the night at Sawyer’s house. So is it Christmas? Or the day after? Basically I am still wondering if the Sri Lanka Tsunami theory will play out as many of us have speculated for the last couple years.

Jack’s lie on the witness stand was clever, I tried to get each piece of info he said and figure out what really happened. I believe the line that they crashed in the water was arranged to coincide with the wreckage that was found. Obviously the Kate story was to get her out of jail. But the part about the Oceanic 6(8) is puzzling. Two people had to have survived because of proof somewhere else that they were alive. But furthering it by saying 6 returned, says either they died or stayed on the island. I am now more concerned about the Oceanic 2 than the 6. Who they are, what happened to them, why are they so important that they are even mentioned in a lie that could have easily said they died in the plane. Oh and for the record I think Aaron doesn’t count as an Oceanic anything. Though I think he counts a lot when it comes to the greater overall plot of the show.

That’s all my deep thoughts now. So on a lighter side. Did anyone notice Kate held baby Aaron like a left handed mother… but she’s right handed on the island!?!?!? The grenade in Miles’ mouth was friggin’ awesome, reminds me of classic Lost, kudos to the writers. Also, most importantly, no one mentioned another survivor of Oceanic 815. In the scene with Kate and her mother, her mother is obviously wearing Cindy’s Scarf. I am not making it up, see it for yourself. It’s funny because I didn’t see Cindy’s Scarf’s name in the opening credits.

Anyways, looking forward to next week to see what’s up with the chopper. Plus I hope they give Dan Faraday more screen time, his acting is great, and I feel like he has no drama, he’s only there to figure out the island, he kind of represents one of us, the audience. Yet he only gets one little “Mr. Wizard’s World” experiment per episode.

Favorite MACism:
“The nookie goes cold when Kate tells Sawyer that she definitely is not pregnant and Sawyer does an end-zone celebration”

#236. Posted by: callaway76 at February 23, 2008 6:37 PM

Another possibility is that Kate was impregnated with "Clone Baby" Aaron.

#237. Posted by: DW at February 23, 2008 6:55 PM

Um, no, that's not really a possibility...!

But I promise I'll eat crow if you're right!

#238. Posted by: JoePike at February 23, 2008 8:02 PM

Okay, Miss. ilovebenjaminlinus, It's obvious you are new to this blog and haven't gotten a few things straight yet. So, I, personally am going to introduce you to rule #1.

1. BEN IS MINE!!!


Once you have gotten this rule commited to memory I'll be fine. Until then, I am going to protest by drinking this lovely Chianti (it's a 2005 and it's going down nicely!)

I have nothing else to say now.


:)

#239. Posted by: meg...MIF at February 23, 2008 8:06 PM

Okay, I have remained quiet long enough in protest. Among the community of non-obsessed Lost people they are messing up. My sister and her family watch it religiously, and they didn't even realize the baby was Aaron! They totally missed that part. My parents have stopped watching because they are too senile to keep the flashforwards and flashbacks separate. I mean, they made a point of saying that those little "clue cards" were needed just so they could keep up.

personally, I keep up okay, even with the wine...lol...but, I'd hate for the show to lose viewers and get canceled.

#240. Posted by: meg at February 23, 2008 8:12 PM

Kate's lawyer DID NOT want Aaron to testify, and the word 'testify' was never mentioned. He just wanted Aaron to be in the court room so the jury could see him to generate more sympathy for Kate. There's no way a kid Aaron's age would be called testify...and anyway, he knows nothing of the crimes and is an extremely biased character witness!

I'm just really surprised so many of you feel Aaron is not one of the "Oceanic 6".

First off, the way he was revealed totally proves (IMHO) that he's Claire's child. It was the so called "big reveal" promised for the end of this episode. (DUDE, KATE IS RAISING CLAIRE'S AARON...WHOA!). So that's not really in question. What is in question is how Aaron got off the island.

Based on the current info we have (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, & Aaron were on the island...and now they're not), we are left to believe that Aaron was rescued at the same time as the other Losties. We currently have no reason to believe otherwise.

So if Aaron was one of the people on the island as a result of the crash, then was rescued, why wouldn't he be considered one of the 6 just because he's a kid? I think he would still be counted.

Plus, Kate isn't trying to hide him at all. She may be claiming him as her own, but again, we don't have enough info to know if that's true or not.

Again, just based on the info the show has provided us so far, it makes sense to me that Aaron is #5 of the Oceanic 6.

#241. Posted by: JoePike at February 23, 2008 8:21 PM

Kate’s lawyer did not say he wanted her son to testify, just that he wanted him in the courtroom to establish Kate’s character. Here’s the transcript of that scene:

LAWYER: The way I see it, we’ve got one shot at this.
KATE: What’s that?
LAWYER: We make it about character. Not about what you did or didn’t do, but about who you are.
KATE: What do you mean, “Who I am?”
LAWYER: I want him in the courtroom.
KATE: Absolutely not.
LAWYER: We need him, Kate. It will generate tremendous sympathy…
KATE: Duncan, listen to me! You are not bringing him in here! All right, you wanna make this about me, about my character? Fine. But you are not using my son.

So the little guy was not going to take the stand and recount his memories of the crash whilst in utero. Although I’m sure that would have been entertaining.

But it did strike me as odd that the lawyer implied he needed Aaron present in the courtroom to gain sympathy. Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but if Kate is a mega-famous crash survivor, wouldn’t the whole world know the details of her motherhood (or whatever official story the Oceanic Six gave out)? So, something about Aaron’s existence, the circumstances by which Kate became his mother, or his “specialness” (maybe TGW powers X infinity) remains unknown to the general public and would have helped her case. Just speculating.

Also, I found the inconsistencies of proper trial-procedure disappointing, although very interesting to read about. Thanks to welh and One of the Six.

In the credits at the end of the episode, William Blanchette is “Two Year Old Boy.” Which would put the trial timeline at the end of 2006, which seems about right, considering it’s pre-pillpopping crazy-beard Jack, who ripped the obituary out of the April 5, 2007 edition of the Los Angeles Times.

So, I don’t think Aaron is TGA. He’s right about the age he should be as Claire’s baby (DOB: November 2, 2004). But if he was Skate’s baby, he would be at least 10 months younger. (Sawyer and Kate bear-cage mambo happened around December 2, 2004.)

My vote is that Aaron is Aaron. That being said, upon second viewing of Eggtown, I am of the opinion that Kate is pregnant or thinks she may be pregnant. She seems totally focused on getting off that island, to the extent that she is willing to alienate Jack, Locke and Sawyer to get the information she needs from Miles. Kate’s a survivor and a fugitive. If she didn’t have a compelling reason to leave, I think she would be doing everything possible to avoid the limelight of a freighter rescue. I think Sawyer handing her the wine was his own little test, and she could have faked a sip. During the Lostie trek to the radio tower in “Through the Looking Glass,” Kate reminds Sawyer:

KATE: You know. They sent Juliet to check out Sun, but she was there to check and see if I'm pregnant, too.

SAWYER: Well, let's hope you're not.

Ah, James, ever the romantic! To give him credit, it was a bad timing, as he had just returned from offing Locke’s dad. But Kate didn’t know. So, I think she’s pretty clear on what his reaction would be to impending fatherhood, even before his touchdown dance. And I think she held back from more sex, because without a Widmore pregnancy kit or a Dharma-lab sonogram, she can’t confirm. So better to be safe.

Is Aaron considered one of the Six? I’m going to say no. When Jack testified at the trial, he said, “Only eight of us survived the crash…” “She tried to save the other two, but they didn’t…” It’s all semantics at this point, but I think Jack would have said that only seven survived the crash, if he was talking about a pregnant Claire or Kate. The producers have said we will know the identity of the Six before the upcoming break. Hopefully, it will be clear to us, as well as them ;) My burning question now is, How will this affect our friend “One of the Six”? Will he have to change his name to One of the Eight if he’s not confirmed as a survivor? Personally, I’ll always think of him as Prosecutor67, anyway.

Michael and Walt left Pala Ferry on November 27, 2004 and the events in Eggtown occur on December 25-26, 2004. So, I agree with whoever said they could not have been circling the island this long.

As for the tsunami, who knows? I guess there could be some connection to whatever happens with the helicopter. Or it could be a red herring. The producers have confirmed that “Find 815” is not canon. Only time will tell.

*Note: Lostpedia is the source for all dates mentioned above.

@Meg: Ratings are still good. And hopefully, they will survive the upcoming 6 week break, with a good lead-in from Grey’s Anatomy. Although, I am not a fan of the 10pm timeslot. And I can’t believe that Lost only beat Fox’s “Don’t Forget the Lyrics” by one million viewers. Heathens!

From DarkUFO:

Surging from its lead-in by 8.0 million viewers and by 235% in Adults 18-49 (replay of the previous week's episode = 5.5 million & 1.7/4), ABC's "Lost" moved ABC into a dominant first place in the 9 o'clock hour for the fourth week in a row. Despite its decided lead-in advantage coming into the hour from "American Idol," "Lost" outperformed second-place Fox's "Don't Forget the Lyrics" by 1.0 million viewers (13.5 million vs. 12.5 million) and by 19% in Adults 18-49 (5.7/13 vs. 4.8/11).

#242. Posted by: Clementine at February 23, 2008 8:41 PM

@JoePike: I was too busy writing my treatise on Aaron, and didn't see your post before I responded. So we agree on the absurdity of Aaron's testimony and disagree on whether he is one of the Six. I'm leaning toward the idea that Kate having a son is public knowledge, but not that he was on the island. How that would be, I don't know :)

#243. Posted by: Clementine at February 23, 2008 8:52 PM

Hi all, sorry if someone mentioned this, but I haven't gone thru all the posts yet...
How is the media going to explain the Oceanic 6 when they showed coverage (we know it was a fake, but the "public" doesn't know) of the wreckage and "no survivors"?

#244. Posted by: ChristinaLVT at February 23, 2008 8:52 PM

WGNAE...
"We're Gonna Need Another EGG!"

(or more chickens...)

#245. Posted by: ChristinaLVT at February 23, 2008 9:26 PM

If we know that the man in the coffins name starts with a J. Then it is defiantly Jin in the Coffin, He and Sun get off the island she gives birth and dies while in labor. Thus a farther with only a surviving son and no family(they are all in Korea). Has a funeral and no one is there.

How is Miles going to "Kill" Ben off? Should be interesting to see.

@ Red Neck Man

Sorry, I offended you with my D.S. theory. For some reason even on my second viewing he looked off to me. Probably nothing, but why else would the lawyer wan the kid in the court room. The entire public already knows Kate is a mom, she is Famous. Sympathy vote?


#246. Posted by: dakota at February 23, 2008 9:41 PM

#229 - Shikotee:
Thanks,that was great, so many parallels!!

#247. Posted by: ChristinaLVT at February 23, 2008 9:57 PM

Haha. You know Meg, i was going to actually say the same thing but then i had a feeling that you were going to say what you just said to me.

I guess I was right.

I would fight with you for him, but I have a feeling you won't be able to handle his manipulative sense of character... and eventually you will realize that he is NOT the one for you. (or vice versa) Then obviously I'll have him all to myself and we'll live happily ever after in a land far far away called, "BENSYLVANIA!"

I'll let you have him first though... just so you don't hate me as much as you do right now probably.

aah, what a dream. but according to my "analysis" it will most likely come true.

I feel kind of mean saying it, but the truth has to come out some time or another. =D

@ JoePike
Sorry about the whole testify thing. I interpreted it incorrectly.

I guess it makes a lot of sense for Aaron to have Down Syndrome... but once again, the whole "hi mommy" thing isn't making sense.

If they just wanted to generate sympathy for Kate, i think a child with Down Syndrome would do the trick.

I think i'm getting a hang of this whole blogging thing!

#248. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 23, 2008 10:56 PM

I found this episode to be a bit anti-climatic but then again, we need to come down from the great heights the show has taken us to the first three episodes.

I agree that Aaron is Aaron and not the spawn of Kate. I do also agree that she is passing him off as her own kid and not as Claire's.

Does anyone else think that the Oceanic 6 are hand picked by Benry? I believe he'll make them all THINK it's their choice when in reality he is persuading them to do exactly as he desires. This helps along the theory others have posted that Jack (or perhaps all 6 of the O6) have to make a decision to leave people behind, including Claire. The guilt leads Jack to his future flash alcoholism and wish to return to the island.

Also on that note, there is no way Ben allows Juliet off the island. Ever. And speaking of which...

Is it me or did Juliet look incredibly hot this episode?

@ 197 Meg
"In all this time, hard to believe Kate hasn't gotten stuck babysitting Aaron yet."

Charlie never got around to taking Claire to the island's Olive Garden so there was never a need for a babysitter!

#249. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at February 23, 2008 11:55 PM

@239 meg...MIF ranted:

>Okay, Miss. ilovebenjaminlinus, It's obvious you are new to this blog and haven't gotten a few things straight yet. So, I, personally am going to introduce you to rule #1.

>1. BEN IS MINE!!!

Okay, okay, now I'm confused.

I thought rule #1 was "Meg is First!".

So maybe one of you can have on-island Ben (lots of mothering opportunities, nursing him back to health after all the beat-downs...

And the other can have off-island Ben, snappy dresser, promising vererinary career...

* * * No bunnies were hurt in the orioduction of this comment. * * *

* * * Also note the balnced asterisks * * *

* * * A moose once bit my sister * * *

* * * Moose bites can be veri nasti * * *

- The people responsible for the preceding comments have been sacked.

#250. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 24, 2008 12:01 AM

Clementine, those were great and well thought out posts...though I still say Aaron is one of the 6. Can't wait to see who is right. (Maybe a new podcast this week will shed some light?)

And ilovebenjaminlinusxx, I didn't think the lawyer thought Aaron would generate more sympathy because of Downs...I thought it was just the fact that the jury would see she has a kid to take care of. The whole Downs thing is highly speculative at this point (and I don't think he's got it).

#251. Posted by: JoePike at February 24, 2008 12:40 AM

@ dakota #246: "If we know that the man in the coffins name starts with a J. Then it is defiantly Jin in the Coffin..."

How do you figure it's definitely Jin? Why couldnt it be James...or John....?? Neither of them have any family. At this point I'd almost believe it could be anyone...

#252. Posted by: Keluha at February 24, 2008 1:58 AM

After seeing this screenshot on lostpedia, I'm now convinced that Aaron did not have Down Syndrome.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Aaron-ff.jpg

#253. Posted by: taylor0822 at February 24, 2008 5:13 AM

Here's my theory on the "8 survivors" theory they've been telling people...

The Oceanic six, along with Claire (and a yet unidentified person) survived the crash. Claire gave birth and then died because of a lack of medical facilities (they might even try to spin it that she died DURING childbirth).

Something happened to the other person to cause him/her to die as well. (This will probably be explained in the future.)

Kate, being the "saint" she is and caring for everyone, decides to adopt the now orphaned Aaron. Regardless of the actual circumstance, that's probably how they spun it...

Most likely, Claire was unable/unwilling to go on the freighter and she asked Kate to smuggle Aaron back to civilization. Nobody on the freighter knew until they were halfway home so they had to work him into their lie.

#254. Posted by: Lost-Confused at February 24, 2008 9:06 AM

@ Clementine - 242

To answer your question about why Aaron would be useful in the courtroom, it's for the sympathy vote.

I know Kate's lawyer used the word character, but this was (...is...going to be.....anyway!!!) a jury trial and a big part of a juror's decision is based on "feelings".

Knowing this, sending a mother off to jail for a life sentence while looking at her child is probably one of the hardest things for a human beeing to do.

That's why this tactic would have been more a question of sympathy than character (as already mentionned by JoePike).

As per the Tsunami angle, there's a part of me that doesn't think that the writers would go there. With all the REAL people that died in that event, any way you spin it would be pretty much unrespectful to the deceased and the survivors....

Back to Aaron...For me it's clear that 1- his existence is of the pubic domain (grandma knowing and all...) and 2- Everybody thinks it's Kate's (once again Grandma...why want to see a child that isn't your "true" descendant).

Also, I'm wondering if her not dying has something to do with the "course correction" theory we learned of from Mrs. What'sHerName in Desmond's first premonition (Kate's mom mentionned the doctors giving her six month's to live for the past four years).

Now if her role was to testify so Kate WOULD end up in jail, I think there are a few "course correcting" suprises left to come (hope so anyway....Man I love this show)

#255. Posted by: One of the Six...or maybe not at February 24, 2008 9:24 AM

****POSSIBLE SPOILER****

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a spoiler and if it was addressed in the season opener, but I just rewatched the official Lost video podcast for that epi which shows the behind the scene's footage of the filming of the scene where Hurley is in the police interrogation room and he sees Charlie swim up with a new message: they need you (man that sentence could of used some punctuation and paragraphes...hey, it's Sunday morning, the kids were up early and that bottle of Australian red was pretty good last night...)

Getting back to th point, in that podcast we can here (subtitles and all to make sure) the acting director say to the stuntman "blah, blah blah, SINCE YOU'RE A GHOST blah, blah, blah..."

I think this pretty much settles what Charlie and the other "apperitions" of dead people are...GHOSTS!

So these ghosts seem to be there to make sure our friends do what they're supposed to (that course correcting thing pops into mind again...)

Think of Locke and Boone (sweat lodge), Jack's dad with Vincent in the final "Missing pieces", Jack's dad with Jack on the Island, Hurley with Charlie in the flash-forward (BTW, I think the ghost decides who can see him, so Charlie didn't care that a bunch of crazy people could notice him...), Jacob and Ben, Locke and know Hurley, Ben and his mom, etc...

Now, don't ask me what this all means to the overall story, I've got no clue. It's just something I thought worth mentionning

#256. Posted by: One of the Six at February 24, 2008 9:59 AM

OK, per the ABC video podcast on darkufo, that is CLAIRE'S AARON. :)

#257. Posted by: taylor0822 at February 24, 2008 10:14 AM

@ JoePike
Yeah, i don't think Aaron has Down Syndrome either, i was just saying it would make sense. But good point.

@ Meg and Cecil Rose
Guess there's two number one's... but it's the first Rule #1 that counts, so i guess the second Rule #1 isn't a rule.

if that made sense...

So now your second rule #1 could be my FIRST rule #1 and therefore, ben would be MINE ;D

that smiley looked a little evil too...
is it just me?

#258. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 24, 2008 10:29 AM

Okay...maybe there are two rule #1's :) (not so evul looking smile)

I agree that the baby isn't a DS baby. It did look like that at first, but I think it was just "bedhead". Sorry, I know that last comment was terribly not politically correct (forgive the overuse of the adverbs).

I agree that that Ben will have a say in who the six people are. Can't shake the feeling that he's still in control, even as a prisoner. I am still not convinced either way on Aaron, but I think it's big, really going to be big, the fact that baby is there and Claire isn't.

I would like to see more tie-in to earlier episodes, if that makes sense. I would hate to think the writers were forgetting earlier introduced facts, such as Claire getting on the helicopter, etc.

I wonder if they read these blogs...or this one in particular. hmmm

#259. Posted by: meg..aka..mif...aka... Ben's meg at February 24, 2008 11:17 AM

either way, there can't be two rule #1's. and since "meg is first" is your official rule #1, ben can not be yours.

it's okay to be jealous of our relationship, we just, you know, "click".

honestly, i want to be like ben. his personality is just, so attractive and GENIUS.

anyway...

i think we have established that most likely, aaron DOES NOT have down syndrome.

it would be pretty darn cool if the writers look at this blog. i have a feeling that they do. if i remember correctly, they did happen to mention in an interview that they read theories on different sites and if they like them they consider them.

i don't know, i could be wrong. that was a while ago.

#260. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 24, 2008 12:53 PM

Hey if you two can't decide this in an adult manner, I'll have to ask Sayid to split Benry in two and you can each get half of him, mkay?

;)

#261. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 24, 2008 1:55 PM

lengthwise or crosswise?

#262. Posted by: Debunker at February 24, 2008 2:08 PM

Would have to be lengthwise, can't let one of them get both of his bug-eyes!

#263. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 24, 2008 2:22 PM

But then he'll just be my other quarter!! right now he's my other HALF.

i won't be whole because he won't be whole!!!

i don't agree with this, but just incase... i call the LEFT SIDE of his body!!!

#264. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 24, 2008 2:24 PM

Eggtown Haiku (v4.4)

Daddy James Or Not?,
Kate Is The Flash Forward Key,
Toddlers Get Bed Head.

#265. Posted by: DocH at February 24, 2008 2:24 PM

Of course it might be easier (and less mess) to use the technique from the Orchid video; then they both could have a full one...

#266. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 24, 2008 2:24 PM

To All Those With a Yen for Bug-Eyed Ben:

Good luck with the Orchid-ization. All I ask is that there be no discussion of physical attributes without a proper disclaimer (including balancing asterisks). I don't want to stumble across any Ben porn by accident. I'm very impressionable and easily nauseated.

#267. Posted by: Clementine at February 24, 2008 2:53 PM

just as kate and claire are sharing Aaron.

#268. Posted by: phg at February 24, 2008 3:05 PM

lol, have we already deteriorated to this point?? I think we need another episode, and fast.

But, I agree that with the splitting of Ben, each of us would have to have a bug-eye. :)

at least Claire and Kate didn't split the baby in half! ick

#269. Posted by: meg at February 24, 2008 4:03 PM

Who would of thought that 2 girls would be fighting over BEN and not JACK or SAWYER (proves the point that power attracts...).

If the writers get their hands on this and are able to incorporate it in the story, that'll prove that they really are the most creative people on the planet.

And in a really basic GUY comment (which I'm suprised I haven't read yet) I'm going to call it:

CAT FIGHT!!!

#270. Posted by: One of the Six at February 24, 2008 4:39 PM

Speaking of catfights, it's a flashback to that argument that involved Vikki a couple years ago...remember that one? lol

#271. Posted by: meg at February 24, 2008 5:46 PM

I wonder if anyone reads this far down in the blog...

I think that the boy is Claire's Aaron and that they used him as part of Kate's "heroic rescue everybody" fib. How great would that sound if Kate decided to take reaponsibilty for Aaron after his mother (Claire) was killed in the plane crash? That is just what I think about that since the oceanic 6 are into telling false stories about the crash and rescue.

Also, it is Claire's Aaron for two more reasons...

1) Kate told the babysitter to keep him from the TV. Maybe since he was born on the island he has special island powers --> mess up electronics?

2) Kate doesnt want Aaron meeting her mom because his powers may cure or kill her?

just my thoughts, if anyone actually reads this far down in the blog.

#272. Posted by: moehabba at February 24, 2008 6:12 PM

i was waiting for someone to say catfight too!

jack breathes weird and sawyer is just hot as hell.

but he doesn't have the attractive manipulative personality that ben does... he does, but it's not the same... there's just something about him that's so, i don't know... hot.

two bug eyes are better than one. but one bug eye is better than none. =D

he'll survive the split... i bet he's hallo inside anyway... except for his brain.

#273. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 24, 2008 7:47 PM

In response to Debunker -> 235 and all others who do not believe Aaron is one of the 6:

I think Aaron's Oceanic 6 membership actually depends on how much time has elapsed OFF the island since 815 took off. (Help me out if anyone has been able to establish what the off-island date was at the time the Oceanic 6 were to have been rescued). Based on the possibilities introduced by Faraday's rocket test, a strong case can be made that the actual date of the Oceanic 6's first public appearance may not coincide with the number of days the O6 have experienced.

If the off-island date establishes that Aaron was conceived long before 815 crashed, it would be very hard to sell the idea of a nearly full-term Kate carrying the drowning Hurley to shore for some mouth-to-mouth while Jack runs screaming "Does anybody have a pen?" Nope, I wouldn't buy that. So if off-island time establishes that Aaron was born shortly after the crash, then I'm guessing that the rest of the Hero-Kate story Jack was telling in court would go like this :

A nearly full-term Claire was one of the people Kate heroically rescued when the plane crashed into the water.
Claire died on the Island while giving birth.
Kate raised the baby on the Island and became it's mother.

In this scenario, Aaron should be considered one of the Oceanic 6.

If time off the Island establishes (based on Aaron's apparent age at time of rescue) that Aaron was conceived either on the island, or shortly before 815 crashed, then Kate being the baby's mother would be plausible, or even necessary for the cover story. Also, if enough time has elapsed off island that Aaron HAD to be conceived on the Island, then there would need to be two biological parents on the island. Unless one of the O6 is daddy, then the story would probably be that the father died on the island after impregnating Kate.

Jack could also help establish maternity by transfusing Kate's blood with his own, so a blood test would reveal a genetic match. Perhaps this is even how Jack discovered his connection with Claire and Aaron and could help explain his being uncomfortable with Aaron. We already saw Jack giving Boone a transfusion and learned that he was a universal donor. Things happen for a reason on this show.

Whether Aaron was part of the Oceanic 6 or not, it's likely that Aaron was paraded as publicly as Kate, Jack, Sayid, Hurley, and whoever else rounds out the 6. The entire Hero Kate cover-up story was concocted to help Kate avoid jail. It would make sense that Aaron was a pivotal part of that story and Kate's connection to the baby (mother, guardian or otherwise) was scripted in such a way that Kate would appear unimpeachable in the eyes of public opinion.

#274. Posted by: vacc at February 24, 2008 7:56 PM

ha. wow. this is a strange day. i go on the lost blog only to fing that two girls are fighting over BEN of all people.
ha, i can understand fighting over charlie(why did he have to die?!?!why!?!!) or sawyer or the long gone, but may i remind you ADORABLE boone. but ben?? ha. i must be having another strange lost dream. any minute now charlie will start singing george micheal songs.(damn you eli stone!!)

#275. Posted by: kaseygirl106 at February 24, 2008 8:25 PM

forgot to post this. sorry...

i think that there are many possibilities for the whole Aaron thing.

one is that Claire wanted to stay on the island and decided that Aaron would be better off if he wasnt on the island. how he would be better off with Kate, i don't know.

another is obviouse. claire dies, kate (heroically) takes in Aaron.

Claire and Aaron are killed in a Locke related explosion. kate names her kid after Aaron in memory of them. (ha. yeah right.)

kate is a dirty rotten baby stealling wh*re who deserves to die and rott in hell (take THAT evangeline lilly, that 'll teach you to steal MY hobbit/druggie!)

the baby really IS kates, but shes not sure if its Sawyer's or Jack's. (te he. this is so unlikely.)thats why jack doesent want to see it. he cant handel if it turns out to be a mini-sawyer(well it did have blonde hair. but so does claire)


i would just like to say that i really dont like the way that the producers are taking Lost. rember the good 'ol days when des hurley and charlie were best buds? when sawyer got beat by hurley in ping pong? when sayid tortured sayid for an inhaler?

im already sick of the flash forwards. its like being forced to go on a spoiler site. couldnt they all just die. id be happier, actually.
it hurts to see sayid working for ben and kate raising claire. im not really bothered by how things go for hurley or jack though. whatever. they were crazy anyways.

wow. long post. okay im done now.


#276. Posted by: kaseygirl106 at February 24, 2008 9:17 PM

Late to the party this week, but FWIW:

@lostsox #100: That's my laugh for the week...thanks!

Re Daniel & Charlotte's card-guessing parlor trick: I interpreted it as an ESP trial rather than Daniel working on his short-term memory. Guess he "misremembered" too.

Re Kate & Aaron: Based on the way the episode played out (w/Kate's interactions w/Claire), it wasn't too much of a surprise that Kate's son turned out to be Aaron. But I still have a niggling doubt that Kate's Aaron is Claire's Aaron...just because it seems obvious that it's Claire's Aaron.

Re Kate's mom: Was it just me or did she seem threatening when she told Kate she wanted to see her grandson?

Re Locke: You'd think that he'd have learned by now to not go having temper tantrums where Ben can hear him.

Re Ben & Miles: Whether Miles is Ben's man on the boat or not, it did seem like their conversation was a code. Perhaps Miles wanted to bust Ben out in a couple of days & Ben wanted Miles to wait for a week so he could torment Locke some more.

Re Miles & his breakfast grenade: How strong do one's teeth need to be to hold a grenade for hours?

Great review as always, Mac...thanks!


#277. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 25, 2008 1:12 AM

277/Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought

"Ben wanted Miles to wait for a week so he could torment Locke some more."

HA!

"Re Kate's mom: Was it just me or did she seem threatening when she told Kate she wanted to see her grandson?"

I thought the same thing.

"How strong do one's teeth need to be to hold a grenade for hours?"

See post #184

#278. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 25, 2008 1:49 AM

heard rumors a character will die soon. any idea who that might be?

#279. Posted by: dresden at February 25, 2008 6:21 AM

Okay, seriously, did anyone notice the picture? ANTP in Aaron's room when Kate is standing in the doorway? The picture is of a child riding a bicycle. I remembered that their was a picture that was spliced in the Orchid video of a child on a bicycle. Now we just have to know what that means, which should be REALLY simple. *Note the sarcasm*

#280. Posted by: ANTP? at February 25, 2008 8:19 AM

Hmmm...I didn't think Kate's mom seemed threatening at all when she asked to see Aaron. I thought she totally sounded desperate though, and that scene gave me the impression she thinks the kid is Kate's. Or she wouldn't want to see him so badly as someone else already pointed out.

#281. Posted by: JoePike at February 25, 2008 9:38 AM

I think Miles is the man Ben had on the boat and because Kate wouldn't let them talk in private they used the 3.2 mil as code for something else. After all Miles talks to the dead and this island is full of them from Jack's dad all the way to Jacob (?)
I'm nuts thinking of why Jack won't see the baby. The craziest theory I have is that when Ben captured Kate, Jack and Sawyer last season he had Kate put on a frilly dress and meet him at the beach. When she was put in the bear cage next to Sawyer she seemed VERY upset but didn't say why. Maybe the baby is BENS and she calls it Aaron in memory of Aaron or to make people believe it is Aaron. Jack sure wouldn't want to see Bens baby no matter how much he loved Kate

#282. Posted by: Hurley ho at February 25, 2008 11:18 AM

Perhaps the MAN in the coffin with the initial of J is..

Jorge - on the boat?

Maybe it is not spelt "George".

He might have been the last person who knew how to get to the island and is now dead! Hence Jack being upset.

#283. Posted by: Tao at February 25, 2008 11:27 AM

I disagree about this being a weak episode. I thought it rocked! And I was flabbergasted to see that Aaron is with Kate. So many questions come to mind: Did Claire give Aaron to Kate so he could get off the island? Is Claire dead? Who is the 6th of the Oceanic Six? (I am counting Aaron among the 5 already revealed.)

And it made sense that Kate did not want her mother to see Aaron. Because if she had, she probably would have figured out that he wasn't Kate's biological child.

And how interesting that Jack is still in love with Kate! Wow. Wow. Wow.

I loved this episode and thought it rocked.

#284. Posted by: Yomanda at February 25, 2008 11:52 AM

I hope someday the producers will address the whole 'what happened to Kate when she was alone with Ben on the beach' question. That would really help to clear things up. ;o)

(Hurly Ho, see the bottom of post 231. Before I have to post more posts that just drip with sarcasm!)

#285. Posted by: JoePike at February 25, 2008 12:30 PM

Some musings...

In the very beginning, I was put off by the "Lost" pilot because of the unreality of the air crash. As an aeronautical engineer, a private pilot, and a former Air Force officer, I've enough experience to know that airplanes don't just crash like that - fuselage torn apart and engines still running (inverted yet).

A crash strong enough to do that much damage would rupture the fuel tanks and the whole thing would go up in one giant fireball.

Nor would so many people survive.

There have been large-airplane survivable crashes, most notably the L-1011 (same type as the wreckage purchased by the production company to stage "Lost") that descended at a very shallow angle into the Everglades when they accidentally knocked off the altitude-hold on their autopilot while on approach. In that crash, howver, the fuselage stayed largely intact, and the people survived strapped into their seats.

So I was put off a bit, and didn't even tape (though I watched) the first season. Only gradually, as the other mysteries of the island unfolded, did I begin to think that the unrealities of the crash were part of the mystery. Just how do people survive largely unscratched an airplane disintegrating into three main pieces in mid-air? Is there some mysterious force at work? I'm hoping the writers eventually present an explanation for this.

The relevance of this ancient musing is to the trial presented in this latest episode. By normal rules of jurisprudence it's all wrong.

1) The trial is held in California though none of the offenses took place in California. The murder was in Iowa, the bank robebry in New Mexico, the 'assault on a federal officer' was in Australia.

2) The trial is a mixture of state and federal charges which no one court could try.

3) The witnesses are called in an order that no real trial ever does - the state's "star witness" (Kate's mom) is to be called after the defense had presented a witness (Jack)? The state always has to present its case. then the defense. The state could only call a witness after the defense to rebut a defense witness, not to provide primary testimony.

4) The state can't call a witness who doesn't want to testify? They call reluctant witnesses all the time -it's called a subpoena.

So, I'm wondering, if, like the air crash, the very unreality trial is in some way a part of the plot. I don't see how they'd do it, but I hope, desparately, that it's not just incompetent script writing.

#286. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 25, 2008 1:03 PM

So did anybody else think Kate's defense attorney looked a bit like the Marshal? Is he meant to be a reverse mirror-image in some way? What if he's revealed to be the Marhal's brother? Hah...

#287. Posted by: catbarf at February 25, 2008 1:09 PM

I'm just happy that ETHAN IS MINE!

I'm also bugged by the Ben/Kate beach scene. I keep thinking that Ben made a deal with her to do something for him. What, I have no idea.

The trial was so far off base that it has to be something strange.

#288. Posted by: EthansGirl at February 25, 2008 1:47 PM

This was a duff episode. Seriously. I am disappointed that so many mistakes were discovered in the court scenes. What did the script writers expect us to think? We're not stupid, we are dedicated fans who have stuck by this show through the good, the bad and the ugly. I understand that most episodes answer one question and spark another million but come on, this was the most frustrating episode ever! So we find out that Kate has a little child in her care, called Aaron, wait a minute, that name rings a bell...

*hits head with a DHARMA pencil

We've got to wait to the next Kate flash forward (whoop) to find out if Aaron is Claire's Aaron or Kate's Aaron. How exciting. I can hardly contain myself. Yay.

Sorry for the tone. The series has been amazing up until this episode. I can't wait til the next one.

#289. Posted by: AC at February 25, 2008 2:24 PM

@ meg and ilovebenjaminlinusxx and all: I wonder if Michael Emerson patrols the net for LOST sights, found this one, and has been sitting back reading this power exchange between quarreling lovers. Talk about an ego trip!

#290. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 25, 2008 2:31 PM

@ bcre8ve #184 & 278: Ha! No doubt! So seriously, can Locke (or whoever rescues Miles) get the grenade out of Miles's mouth before it goes off? Or is Miles's character destined for a Naomi-like length of appearance?

Locke has progressed from blowing things up to blowing people up.

@ JoePike #281 & 285: Hmm. Yes, I suppose Kate's mom (is her name Diane?) could have been desperate to see her grandson before she died. And as far as there being nothing nefarious (or more nefarious than usual) going on in the Ben/Kate beach scene, it seems a shame that TPTB set up a situation that looked like there was more to it but left it dangling & then cut it off.

@ catbarf #287: Just typing your name makes me laugh. ; > I did think Duncan looked familiar but am not sure if he looks like Edward Mars, or just like a stereotypical lawyer character. FWIW, he didn't look like a Duncan but like a Barry. ; )

Having had the trial inconsistencies/impossibilities pointed out (thanks, welh & others) makes me disappointed in the writers. Surely they could have found a more realistic way to handle Kate's future flash.

Going back to Kate's comment at in last season's finale, "He'll be wondering where I am": Now it seems settled that it was her son who would be wondering. But would a two-year-old be up at the time of the night that Kate met Jack to be wondering where his mom was? (Yes, I do have a child & know that bedtimes at that age aren't always predictable...Miss Longthought certainly wasn't.) I think there's still the possibility that Kate was referring to a significant other rather than Aaron w/that comment. It doesn't seem likely that the significant other would be Sawyer; he didn't want to leave the island & if he did, it doesn't seem likely that he'd be staying in the limelight. Also, we've wondered where Kate got the money for the house/car/nanny (although she would have had to have a babysitter or someone to provide Aaroncare while she was on trial/in jail). Maybe the "he" is Ben, as has been speculated. Ben certainly has plenty of money. Perhaps he's holding Aaron as a hostage, so to speak, to force Kate to do as he wants, as he's doing to Sayid. That could explain why Kate is so protective of Aaron & why she would take a quick deal rather than holding out for something better.

I know a lot of people didn't care for the Kate aspects of this episode, but to me the fact that just about everything could be interpreted different ways made it interesting. Was Diane threatening Kate & Aaron? Or was she desperate? Is Aaron really Claire's Aaron? Or is he Kate's biological son? Does Jack not want to see Aaron because he's Sawyer's son? Or because he's his own half-nephew & that sets off the daddy issues again? Was the big reveal that Kate is raising Aaron as her own & thus he makes it off the island but not Claire? Or was the big reveal that Kate got pregnant on the island & lived to give birth either on the island or back home?

#291. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 25, 2008 2:33 PM

@287 catbarf

You know what? I totally thought Kate's defense attorney looked like the marshal.
It was the first thought that hit me when I saw him. I just assumed that since I had not seen anything with the Marshall for so long, that my mind was playing tricks on me. Glad to hear someone else got the same vibe!

**** Spoiler ****

In the latest Official ABC Lost video podcast, Evangeline Lily discusses Kate becoming a mom. It confirms that Aaron is Claire's Aaron, though Evangeline has no idea how this came to happen.

#292. Posted by: shikotee at February 25, 2008 3:18 PM

@279 dresden
re: character will die

Last week, I thought they would take Claire out of the picture for sure. With the Aaron off island revelation, I don't think this will be the case. The writers certainly suggest the idea she may die in the future, but it will likely be a Red Herring.

Should we ever reach a stage where flash forwards or the regular story depict what has happened to other island characters, the character of Claire still on island without her son would be compelling to watch. We'd get to experience her dealing with the emotions, and also she would have greater mobility to actively do things on the island (as she would no longer be nurturing a baby).

My next guess would be either Sun or Jin. I don't think it will be Sun til later (if she gives birth on the island). I think they need to keep her because they will still explore the island pregnancy death thing. If on island, it would more likely be Jin. I doubt this too though, because the writers seem to be suggesting that Jin is working hard to learn English.

I guess much will depend on who the remaining Oceanic 6 will be. My belief is that we only know of 4 so far - Kate, Jack, Hugo, Sayid. I do not believe that Aaron is counted (the writers will explain this at some point in the future), so this leaves 2 spots open. My guess would be Sun and Jin.

Based on what has happened to all women who have conceived on the island, I think people would give her the spot (if there was a choice element involved). Naturally, I think they would include Jin in the package.

Man - I'll sure be eating crow if Aaron turns out to be one of the six!

#293. Posted by: shikotee at February 25, 2008 3:44 PM

I think Jack has "told the story so many times he is starting to believe it" because they have probably been on every talk show there is. repeating the story on Dateline, Oprah, Fox news, etc.

#294. Posted by: xanadude at February 25, 2008 3:46 PM

@292 shikotee

Could you point us to a URL? Just wondering where you're getting this, since the lastest video and audio podcasts on the ABC website are 2/15.

o--------

All:

If you think you recognize Kate's lawyer, you must be "Big Love" fans. He plays Joey Hendrickson, the brother of the Bill Paxton character there.

#295. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 25, 2008 3:58 PM

The book Sawyer is reading in bed is an English translation of the 1940 Spanish novel "The Invention of Morel". Check out the Wikipedia synopsis at the URL below for more clues to the "Lost" writers homage:

http://en*wikipedia*org/wiki/The_Invention_of_Morel

o-----------

There is a very spoilerish 'sneak peak' on the ABC website for next weeks ep. Remember, you were warned. I'll withhold comment until the ep airs.

#296. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 25, 2008 5:35 PM

→ 296. Posted by: Cecil Rose
Thanks for the "Morel" reference (reminder) and getting us back on task.

Morel - The major themes of which are;

Physical Immortality Preferred to Spiritual Immortality.

Love and Loneliness.

Control of life - after unfair conviction.

(Reminds me most of Desmond - Lonely, Locke - Immortal, Kate - facing Conviction).

#297. Posted by: DocH at February 25, 2008 6:04 PM

To the Cat-fight girls: Are you really in love with Ben or with Michael Emerson? FYI Michael was on the View recently (I don't watch....just heard). You may recall that his wife played his mother on LOST. hmmm ... not sure if that makes him more attractive or not.

I seem to recall that Henry Gale was supposed to be a short-lived character, but he was such a hit that the creators decided to make him a major player. Does anyone else remember that? Or am I dreaming? If it's true, then they certainly had to change their original story quite a bit.

Another unanswered question: what about that parachute? Is it significant or was it just a prop for Ben's Henry Gale disguise? I know the Losties found the corpse in the grave. Another one of Ben's props?

Is it really only Monday? T minus 72 hours til Thursday night....hence the drivel here (or "dribble" as someone else called it).

#298. Posted by: lovelost at February 25, 2008 6:39 PM

When Locke threw Ben's breakfeast against the wall, he just proved to Ben that Ben was right and that Locke was getting weak. It also proved that Ben was still getting to Locke's head.

@ 184 - bcre8ve
Q: How long can you hold a pinless grenade in your mouth?

A: For the rest of your life.

NICE ONE!

@ JoePike
You have a great deal of insight, all the time. I admire that.

I agree, I think Kate's mom was speaking out of desparation. I mean, with Kate's history of capabilities, I think the last thing her mother would try to do is threaten Kate. She of all people know what Kate is capable of and it seems clear that she is already afraid of her.

@ 282 - Hurley ho
I highly doubt that anything happened with Ben and Kate. At least I hope nothing happened.

Also, Jack and Kate's relationship is quite irritating. Once again, I hate how Jack breathes; especially when he inhales. I've also never really been a fan of Kate, or Juliet.

I think Kate episodes are good though. Despite the askew court procedure, i think this episode was the best of the season so far.

It gave us SO MUCH to talk about!

@ 286 - Cecil Rose
I completely agree with the wrongs of the court procedure. I'm no engineer so I can't really say much about the plane but I do know about courts and that was the most un-american courtroom I've ever seen. In a matter of fact, it was not like any country's courtroom.

Maybe there was a reason for all of this. I hope it comes together.

@ EthansGirl
Congratulations! Ethan is all yours! First of all, he is DEAD. And second of all, he's quite ugly compared to sexy Ben and everyone else in the world.

In addition...
It is posisble that Ben and Kate made a deal. The beach scene bothered me for a while too but then then it kind of slipped my mind.

@ Red... Neck... Man
"@ meg and ilovebenjaminlinusxx and all: I wonder if Michael Emerson patrols the net for LOST sights, found this one, and has been sitting back reading this power exchange between quarreling lovers. Talk about an ego trip!"

That would be quite funny. We all know he'll choose to find out who I am over Meg!
_______________________________________

Remember folks:
LOSTPEDIA.com = LIFE.

That's my motto.
________________________________________

@ 298 - lovelost
I'm in LOVE with BEN and Michael Emerson because to me, although Ben is Michael's character, they are in fact the same person. It is Ben that I initially fell in love with, but we all know Michale in fact has Ben inside of him.

And I am certain that he would leave his wife for me. However, I didn't actually know that his mother was played by his real-life wife. On the bright side, that could mean that it will potentially be even eaiser for him to leave her for me.

What a mamma's boy.

I like mamma's boys.

Yeah Michael Emerson was supposed to be killed off, but since he was such a great actor, they decided to keep him.

That's a good point about the "props". Knowing how smart the other's are, they most likely wouldn't leave the body there. They would probably find a woman's body to put in there to make the story more convincing. Maybe even if they had to kill someone, they would. Maybe he wanted to be discovered as "one of them"?

That's all I got for now!

#299. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 25, 2008 7:29 PM

→ 298. Posted by: lovelost
I seem to recall that Henry Gale was supposed to be a short-lived character, but he was such a hit that the creators decided to make him a major player. Does anyone else remember that?
------
you're right. He was only supposed to be on 2 or 3 episodes. I think they liked him so much that in his fifth or 6th they officially blended the Ben & Henry plotline so they overlapped.

#300. Posted by: MorBid0 at February 25, 2008 7:39 PM

@295 Cecil Rose

I see what you mean - it does not appear to be up on the ABC site. I wonder why?

In the forums at Lostpedia, there is a section called "ABC released maerial",
with a thread called "Spoiler : New ABC Podcast - 2/23". There is a link to the podcast, but it is not from the ABC site itself.

I've only checked out a few audio podcasts previously, so I have no idea how things go with the video ones.

#301. Posted by: shikotee at February 25, 2008 9:14 PM

Wow! I finally read all the posts. Thanks for sharing all your creative ideas and theories, I love to read them.

I wanted to read them all before I posted my thoughts on why the "official" story of the Oceanic Six includes the fact that their were originally 8 survivors but 2 didn't make it. As many people mentioned in earlier posts there has to be some significant reason for that.

After thinking it over, I realized that at least one person has had contact with the outside world since the crash but will not be among the Oceanic Six...Charlie.

In the Season 3 Finale "Through the Looking Glass" Charlie contacted Penny Widmore before meeting his watery demise. So in order to make their story believable, the Oceanic Six would have to include the fact that Charlie survived the initial crash but later died before being rescued.

So If that guess were correct, that gives us (I don't want to join the "Is Aaron one of the Six" debate so I'll put him as a maybe)

Oceanic Eight:
1. Hurley
2. Sayid
3. Jack
4. Kate
5. Aaron (or not)
6. ?
7. Didn't make it--Charlie
8. Didn't make it--?

So that got me to thinking of who else may have made some type of contact with the outside world while on the island...
Boone seemed to in Season 1 when he found the radio in the plane that later caused his demise (is this a pattern?) but as it turns out he was contacting the "Tailies" (as we found out in Season 2). So it would not be Boone.

Jack and Kate have spoken with the "Freighties" and are known to be among the Oceanic 6. Sayid has made several attempts at communication using various devices during the last 3 seasons, however we know he is also among the "Six."

The only other person I can think of who has attempted to contact the outside world is Claire. In season 3 she attached a note about the Flight 815 survivors to a Seagull. I no longer remember whether or not she listed her name (or anyone else's) or how many 815 survivors there were. But I think Claire may be a possibility.

The other person that I think may be a possibility is Jin. If he doesn't make it off the island yet Sun does, perhaps the explanation for Sun's pregnancy would need to be included in the "Official" story. Meaning that Jin survived the initial crash but died before rescue but after Sun conceived. That I think is also a long shot, but a possibility.

If anyone else has thoughts on who may have had the need to be accounted for in the "official" Oceanic Six cover story (because they contacted the outside world or left other evidence of their surviving the crash) please post your thoughts.

Sorry for the long post.

#302. Posted by: Christine at February 25, 2008 11:05 PM

EGGS = BABIES

I may be over-simplifying things with the whole title of Eggtown. However, it seems to me that the main reason for referring to "eggs" has NOTHING to do with Locke or the eggs he cooked or the chicken he may or may not have killed.

Eggs are the female half of the equation to make a human baby. We know this is a problem on the island where all pregnant women die. I think the whole "egg" thing refers to Kate's (probable) pregnancy, and how it all plays out. Clearly this episode focused on Kate's emerging maternal instincts (discussion with Claire; fight with Sawyer; protective instincts against lawyer and mother to let anyone close to child, etc.)

Sorry for the late post. I was out of the country and couldn't watch the episode til tonight, and I had to see what everyone here said!

Peace.

#303. Posted by: Sleepy Tonite at February 25, 2008 11:09 PM

I'm new to this but here's an interesting little tidbit. The book that Locke hands Ben with his breakfast is called VALIS, by Philip K. Dick. VALIS stands for "Vast Active Living Intelligence System" A clue to the nature of the island?

#304. Posted by: Sam at February 26, 2008 12:24 AM

@Christine -
good point about Charlie talking to Penny. Charlie also told her that Desmond was right in the other room. I know he wasn't on Oceanic 815, but at least Penny knows he was on the island. Plus, how would they explain this island with equipment that would make this possible? I think I've started arguing with myself.

#305. Posted by: Raider at February 26, 2008 12:35 AM

Since it was made so important that Aaron not be raised by anyone else but Claire, I'm wondering if that prediction was made because the current outcome where Kate has left the island was never supposed to happen, and the only reason Aaron was meant to be raised by Claire is because that would mean they'd still be on the island?

Also I'm starting to wonder when Sawyer finds time to wax his chest...

#306. Posted by: isaac at February 26, 2008 12:58 AM

I think the person with the initial "J" in the coffin was John Locke...and no one bothered coming because of how crazy he got and what he did on the island at the end.

Why did the Boater Pilot memorize the entire Oceanic passenger list? Somehow that fact seemed significant. Could that be the hit list Ben is using?

#307. Posted by: LostinLove at February 26, 2008 3:54 AM

@#234/ilovebenjaminlinusxx - I think you may have slightly misunderstood my comment about the cover story. It's obvious that the Six agreed on the story, and I wasn't at all implying that the reason for having a fake story was Kate's trial. What I was actually commenting on is the question you posed "Why this particular story?". What I was wondering is if when the story was being created for whatever reason it was created, why Kate being the hero was a detail that was changed, instead of at least going with the partial truth that Jack played hero. Basically I was wondering if Kate's charges were the reason, not for the cover story, but for that particular lie, b/c they could have easily created a story where she was not the hero.

#308. Posted by: BluSerene at February 26, 2008 7:19 AM

oh, and @302/Christine - WOW, that's a really good point about Charlie! That very well may be the answer. I still think that person 8 there would be Claire though, b/c they have to explain baby Aaron, and I refuse to believe that Kate is passing him off as her own. I firmly believe that one way or another Kate's managed to adopt him - it could really happen even if Claire still had family out there-they might not want her kid. I mean she was giving it up for adoption anyway, so I'd have to say chances are pretty good there wasn't a family member that wanted to raise the child. And the father wanted nothing to do with the baby because he "wasn't ready" or some crap. Also, although Kate did have charges against her, the court may or may not have considered that when letting her adopt. first of all, they'd probably only seriously consider her violent crime, and then it was an isolated incident, so they could have determined she would never purposely harm the baby. Also, if Claire had family out there that was enamored by a story of Kate maybe delivering the baby, and trying to save Claire, they could have set up a private adoption. And now that I think about it any adoption would likely have gone through Australia at that, where things might have been easier for one reason or another than it would've been here in the states. Anyway, it's not as impossible as it seems to some people (which I can understand).

#309. Posted by: BluSerene at February 26, 2008 7:52 AM

@ Christine - 302

I have a little problem with the Charlie justification because I don't believe it's at all clear that Desmond knows that Charlie spoke to Penny (gonna have to rewatch that epi).

This also brings up the matter of a possible cover-up. By this I mean pertaining to the other castaways on the island.

I don't think whoever is controling things (Ben or big black up-to-no-good mean-looking guy) would want attention brought to the Island itself by the fact that not only the Oceanic Six were found there, but also a weird French lady with a Croation accent and a future-seeing, military-deserting, ex-monk, Scotish dude (and maybe some of the "other" people left that Locke won't have offed, Juliet for example).

LUCY, YOU'VE GOT SOME EXPLAINING TO DO!!!

I can't wait to see how all this plays out.

@ Cecile Rose - 286

I've also questionned the number of survivors (more the fact that there were some) since the begining, but as the show evolved (and the number of survivors grew with the tailies) I came to the conclusion to it had to have something to do with the Island (all the Locke and Rose healing hints)

And when we saw the airplane rip apart in mid-air in the season 3 opener (most likely because of Desmond's delay in pushing the button), I thought that this seemed "reasonable" in a Lost sort of way.

I still think there's a difference between the fact that the fuel "most likely" would have exploded and all the weird mistakes concerning Kate's trial.

And I have to agree with you (and maybe it's just hope that Lost won't dwell into the "ordinary") that the more I think about it, there's got to be some "rationnal" to it all (who know's course correction maybe...)

BTW, I was re-listening to the Podcast that followed "Flashes before your eyes" and Darleton mentionned that we should be seeing Rousseau in somebody else's flashback during season 4. Can't wait to see how it will play out.

#310. Posted by: One of the six at February 26, 2008 9:02 AM

Is it really ONLY Tuesday morning? sigh.

#311. Posted by: GatorGal at February 26, 2008 9:39 AM

I still think the 'psychic' who convinced Claire to head to California via Oceanic 815 to meet a potential adoptive couple didn't know anything about the island.

Remember, he badgered her incessantly over a long period of time trying to convince her that she had to keep her baby and raise it. He saw that the baby was 'special' (potentially evil?), and saw that something terrible was going to happen if the kid wasn't raised by Claire.

But nothing he said or did could convince Claire to change her mind about giving the baby up for adoption. So he decided to take matters into his own hands, and put her on a plane he foresaw was going to crash. He put her on that plane thinking he was getting rid of the problem because he thought she and the kid wouldn't survive.

After all, he wouldn't have wanted her to end up at the very place where people would be trying to take her baby away...that would've defeated his whole goal. To put her near the people who would bring out the worst in Aaron was not part of his plan.

So now it's VERY interesting that we know Claire does not end up raising Aaron forever...

#312. Posted by: JoePike at February 26, 2008 11:24 AM

→ 310. Posted by: One of the six at February 26, 2008 09:02 AM
@ Christine - 302
I have a little problem with the Charlie justification because I don't believe it's at all clear that Desmond knows that Charlie spoke to Penny (gonna have to re-watch that epi).
The reason Desmond runs to the room Charlie is in is because he hears Penny’s voice. He turns and you see his lips saying “PENNY” as he is running toward the room. So he knows Penny was talking to Penny but all he knows is Penny said the boat was not from her.

#313. Posted by: micHael at February 26, 2008 11:35 AM

@JoePike: I agree that Aaron is pivotal. And so does Lost fan Kristin with E!. Check out this excerpt from her blog below:

"This twist reminds me of what I was told before Lost had even premiered in 2004: Emilie de Ravin's character's unborn child is connected to the history of the Island. Word is, that was the original pitch and storyboard for the full series that was presented by J.J. Abrams and his team back in the day, and it seems a fair bet that Aaron—the only child to be born on the Island—is still at the chewy-gooey epicenter of this ever more layered Lost mythology."

#314. Posted by: GatorGal at February 26, 2008 12:20 PM

Speaking of Kate being the hero: wasn't Jack referred to as being a hero "twice"....back when he saved the woman in the bridge car accident?? I think someone in the hospital also referred to him as a hero w/regard to Oceanic 815. So, now he's saying it was Kate??

BTW: Thanks again, Mac... and everyone on this site ... for such wonderful postings. You make the wait between eps tolerable.

#315. Posted by: lovelost at February 26, 2008 1:18 PM

Another thought about the original plane crash. I mean, really, who could possibly survive a plane falling out of the sky and hitting the water with such impact? So, yes, perhaps it has something to do with the Island's "protective powers". And this may be why Ben initially said: Go check... there might be survivors. He knew it could happen.

#316. Posted by: lovelost at February 26, 2008 1:21 PM

Do we know if this flash forward is before or after Jack's flash forward/hurleys flash forward??

#317. Posted by: AC at February 26, 2008 1:28 PM

Like “Sleepy Tonite” (#303), I too, was out on a concert engagement and just able to view last Thursday’s show on my DVR last night. And then . . . I trudged thru ALL the postings herein . . .

It does seem the consensus that Kate’s stories always leave us a little disappointed . . . I know that make-believe IS make-believe, but Kate’s episodes appear to border on the “what were they thinking when they wrote this drivel?” . . . But, Kate looks good even in a prison jumpsuit, so who am I to quibble with “creativity” . .

(Tho I still think Juliet is just a little bit hotter . . . but of course, I can’t get the picture of Season-Three-Juliet forced to crawl across a submarine deck in a tight skirt and Ruched d’Orsay stiletto pumps out of my mind . . Moments like that DO tend to brand themselves in the psyche of old men . . . )

I have several observations about this week’s postings:

1. Cecil Rose is still the smartest guy in the world. (But I’m still older.)

2. Catbarf Lives! (Name alone may win the Laffo Memorial Prize this season.)

3. Meg and ilovebenjaminlinusxx : Ladies, Ladies! . . Catfight, indeed! However, to really understand the deep emotional attachment and consequent antagonism that each of you feel toward the other . . perhaps if you could meet . . . and wrestle in a big mud hole and film it for us . . we all would be a tad more understanding of your dilemma. Just a thought.

4. Last week, as part of Mac’s review of “The Economist”, he wrote that - “Danny discovers a bizarre 31-minute delay between the time the rocket should have arrived on the island and when it did arrive on the island.”

By asking: “heard rumors a character will die soon. any idea who that might be?” - It is obvious that “dresden”, (#279), is on a FOUR EPISODE DELAY!!!!

Remarkably, Danny’s hypothenuse apparently has some validity.

5. I am reminded by GatorGal’s last post that, yes indeed, when LOST began, there was much talk about the significance of Claire’s, at that time, unborn baby. Hmmmm, Adam and Eve? Aaron and . . . EVE-vangline Lilly! Whoooooa. This is spooky.

6. The last two members of the Oceanic Six? Well, until her recent passing, I was still holding out for Bob Newhart and Suzanne Pleshette. I guess now I’ll have to go with Bob and . . Larry, his brother Darrell, and his other brother Darrell. That’s my guess and I’m sticking to it - at least until next Thursday.

DRAT!!!! I’m not in town again!!!! OR the next week!!!!

I’ll catch up to you in three. Have a good one, friends.

#318. Posted by: davidrh at February 26, 2008 1:37 PM

BY THE WAY . . .

I noticing a appalling dearth of “funny lines” in this season’s postings. Perhaps we’re all taking this a little toooooo seriously?!?! At this rate, if Red Neck Man just writes “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!” once - he’ll probably be the repeat winner.


And you don’t want that to happen, do you . . .


Clementine?

#319. Posted by: davidrh at February 26, 2008 1:45 PM

I got to about post# 215 and couldn’t contain myself anymore:

@everyone re: Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6 – As much as your arguments make sense I can’t help but disagree. Aaron is not one of the Oceanic 6 - just my gut telling me so – but also the writers of this show like to be sly. There is a very telling scene on the beach between Sun and Jin where they are talking about where they are going to live after getting off the island. The writers are telling us (as promised in the previews for the episode) who another of the Oceanic 6 is (or are – possible that they both make it off the island).

Re: Ben’s man on the boat – once again the writers have told us at the start of every episode this season who the spy is – it’s Michael. He has a history with Ben, although it’s been an adversarial one, it’s a history nonetheless. Besides, we know that Ben can travel on and off the island – he may have gone on one of his trips and recruited Michael by threatening Walt. He may have used other methods to coerce him – eventually we may find out how – but for now the important part of the puzzle is the “who” not the “why”.

@Rebecca #211:
HUH!? I’m not big into the whole romantic aspects of the story line – although any romantic action that provides scenes of Kate sans clothing is ok in my book. I was just looking for a rational and not-so-rational explanation for Jack wanting to avoid Aaron.

Now – back to reading the rest of the posts !

#320. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 26, 2008 1:56 PM

Ok, I've just caught up with all of the posts from last week and this week.

Here's my 2 cents:

1) For those that are calling this a "pedestrian", "boring" or "not up to snuff" episode, just remember that these kinds of episodes always hold the biggest secrets/reveals that we end up look back on much later saying "ooooooh, we missed that!".
2) For those of you saying Dan's memory is lapsing, I never thought the card scene was anything but a psychic abilities test of some sort. It definitely wasn't a memory test.
3) Most importantly: Oh, my, g-d... that Orchid video on youtube! Why isn't there gobs of discussion going on about it here? I mean, seriously, it was more than just significant. It may have been a reveal of proportions we haven't seen in some time now.
What was that white "thing" that dropped from above the camera view, apparently perhaps from the bunny's cage, and why is everyone so freaked out about it in the video and why do they need to "keep them apart/separated"? What two things must they keep separated?
My take, based on some cloning tie-in conversations I read somewhere on this site or elsewhere, is that the bunny replicated itself (by its own choice or not) somehow. It ties in to why the bunnies are numbered - so perhaps the Dharma people can tell "their" bunnies from the ones that "appear" from nowhere? This is huge speculation, but that was my very very quick takeaway from the video.
Now, tying that into the whole Lost world view, what if the reason that Jack is so freaked out about Aaron is because he's not the real Aaron? This one's a stretch, but things like the Orchid video always make me go out on a tangent tear through all kinds of possibilities. What if he's some sort of replica/clone?
Anyhow, it's obvious that the "incident" on the Orchid video is a significant clue to something. It's something I think has been largely ignored here.
4)Why an episode named "Eggtown". Again, I'm of the mindset that everything presented to us has obscure meaning. Most of the time, we just haven't figured it out yet. This episode is going to prove to be more important than most of us are giving credit to it.

Ok, I'm done.

#321. Posted by: LostedIt at February 26, 2008 1:59 PM

I know who the remaining Oceanic 6 are. And it's one of the best jobs of decifering an episode's title ever!! It must be Sun and Jin. Why you ask? Because an anagram for 'Eggtown' would be, of course = Wet Gong!!

#322. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 26, 2008 2:28 PM

In the Orchid Video on Youtube @ 39 seconds there is a splice in the film and a thin looking Peter Jackson or Jack Black in a brown suit appears..Is this the director of the video (voice behind the camera?) Very strange and random but on Lost everything has a meaning..
Anyone have any ideas who (whom?) this may be?
49 seconds picture of a building..
1:09 Writing "God Loves You as He Loved Jacob"
1:42 upside video of someone riding a bike.
D@mn, I have too much time on my hands..

#323. Posted by: UsetheSchwartz at February 26, 2008 2:42 PM

→ 322. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 26, 2008 02:28 PM ...it's one of the best jobs of decifering an episode's title ever!!

Definitely...awesome.

#324. Posted by: JT at February 26, 2008 2:45 PM

@usetheschwartz #323:

@ :39 seconds into the Orchid video we see an image of Professor DeGroot spliced in.

#325. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 26, 2008 2:48 PM

@usetheschwartz #323:

The image of the building is from the Swan orientation video.

"God Loves you as He loved Jacob" is from Karl's clockwork orange torture chamber.

@ 1:42 in the video there is an upside down image of someone riding a bicycle, and it appears to take place in "Bensylvania" or "Othersville" if you prefer that term. I can't tell if the rider is male or female.

#326. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 26, 2008 2:53 PM

For any of you that are video gamers - the Lost: Via Domus game comes out tomorrow for the PS3, XBOX360 and PC. I'm not getting a comission or anything by mentioning it here. And I know that Mac's superb Blog is dedicated to the show and not video games, but for all you crazed fans that have always wanted to explore the island and interat with the characters, well here's your chance. Granted - for the ladies out there a digital Sawyer may not be as good as the real thing but what the hey.

I'm picking up my copy and I'll probably miss a day or two of work :-]

#327. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 26, 2008 3:22 PM

@321 LostedIt asked:

>3) Most importantly: Oh, my, g-d... that Orchid video on youtube! Why isn't there gobs of discussion going on about it here? I mean, seriously, it was more than just significant.

I think because, until it's actually shown in the show itself, fans are not sure how to take it. Was it just a Comic-Con tease, or is it canon? When it shows in an episode the wild specualtion will break out.

Actually, I think the upcoming ep will generate a bit of specualtion, with or without the Orchid video.

o----------

@davidrh - Kind'a bites that "Lost" breaks out again in concert season, huh? And looks like it may be that way for the next three years.

#328. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 26, 2008 3:37 PM

At least I typo consistently.

"SPECULATION".

#329. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 26, 2008 3:40 PM

@322 RNM...

Or...Get Wong.

#330. Posted by: lovelost at February 26, 2008 3:45 PM

@CecilRose #328:

The Orchid video is canon - Damon, or was it Carlton, verified in an interview that the Orchid video is canon as far as the show and mythology is concerned.

#331. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 26, 2008 3:51 PM

Good to have you back MAC.

Can anybody understand what the bearded man yelled at Kate as she was walking into court in the first flash-forward segment? Sounded like "WHERE'S JEFF EUBANKS?"

#332. Posted by: chapdave at February 26, 2008 4:02 PM

@chapdave #332
The man is yelling "I hate you"
b a c k w o r d s .
no kidding. I listened about 20 times and then saw where somebody played it backwards.

#333. Posted by: SamFin at February 26, 2008 6:20 PM

Speaking of the crowd yelling at Kate in front of the courthouse, was anyone else surprised by that? Her crimes in another state wouldn't seem to have so much impact in California, the man and the crowd seemed to be yelling angrily at her. Thank you for telling what the man said, I too listened over and over and couldn't figure it out. Another insight from Kate's flash-forwards that I noticed was when Kate's lawyer told her that having Aaron in the courtroom would generate "tremendous sympathy". Many female convicts are mothers, I wondered if his words might be a clue that the public knows that Aaron is not Kate's biological son. If she adopted him after something happened to his mother after the crash, she would be seen much more sympathetically by the jury. Just a thought.

#334. Posted by: lostluva at February 26, 2008 6:42 PM

@ Christine - 302
Wow, that's truly a brilliant theory! Kudos to you!

So now #8 must be someone else who tried to contact the outside world. Or that may only be the reason why they decided that Charlie had to be one of them. The other person may have had a different reason.

Claire makes sense.

@ BluSerene - 308
I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I think you misunderstood me as well. I think i replied to your comment and then I added on a little of my own input.

Next time I'll be more clear. I apologize again.

I think I do that with all the comments I reply to. Rats.

I think that's why everyone is saying, "wait! I didn't say that!" (or something along those lines)

@ JoePike - 312
Great point! I completely agree.

...anything is possible with that psychic.

Your theory makes perfect sense.

@ davidrh - 318
"3. Meg and ilovebenjaminlinusxx : Ladies, Ladies! . . Catfight, indeed! However, to really understand the deep emotional attachment and consequent antagonism that each of you feel toward the other . . perhaps if you could meet . . . and wrestle in a big mud hole and film it for us . . we all would be a tad more understanding of your dilemma. Just a thought."

...I would win the wrestle.

@ Red... Neck... Man - 322
"I know who the remaining Oceanic 6 are. And it's one of the best jobs of decifering an episode's title ever!! It must be Sun and Jin. Why you ask? Because an anagram for 'Eggtown' would be, of course = Wet Gong!!"

... Very creative =D

@ SamFin - 333
"The man is yelling "I hate you"
b a c k w o r d s .
no kidding. I listened about 20 times and then saw where somebody played it backwards. "

... Really? Didn't see that anywhere... Interesting.

#335. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 26, 2008 8:35 PM

A little preview of tomorrows epi (maybe if my guess was right!!!)

Reading the title, The Constant, got me thinking. This and Dan "let"s have fun with rockets" Faraday's experiment reminded me of something, or more precisely someone: Einstein.

See, within his Special theory of relativity, Einstein developped what he called the "twin paradoxe" (keep reading, I"m totally not a geek and I get this one...)

From PBS / NOVA:

"THE TWIN PARADOX

Einstein came up with an example to show the effects of time dilation that he called the "twin paradox." It's a lot like the Time Traveler game you just played. Let's try it out with a pair of pretend twins, Al and Bert, both of whom are 10 years old in their highly futuristic universe.

Al's parents decide to send him to summer camp in the Alpha-3 star system, which is 25 light-years away (a light-year is the distance light travels in a year). Bert doesn't want to go and stays home on Earth. So Al sets out on his own. Wanting him to get there as quickly as possible, his parents pay extra and send him at 99.99 percent the speed of light.

The trip to the star and back takes 50 years. What happens when Al returns? His twin brother is now 60 years old, but Al is only 10 and a half. How can this be? Al was away for 50 years but only aged by half a year. Has Al just discovered the fountain of youth?

Not at all. Al's trip into space lasted only a half year for him, but on Earth 50 years passed. Does this mean that Al can live forever? Nope. He may have aged by only half a year in the time it took 50 years to pass on Earth, but he also only lived half a year. And since time can slow down but never goes backwards, there's no way he could grow younger."

Now check this out..

Same source:

"There are other ways, however, to put his ideas to the test. How do we know Einstein had it right? One experiment in the 1970s provided some pretty strong evidence:

Atomic clocks are extremely accurate clocks that can measure tiny amounts of time—billionths of a second. In 1971, scientists used these clocks to test Einstein's ideas. One atomic clock was set up on the ground, while another was sent around the world on a jet traveling at 600 mph. At the start, both clocks showed exactly the same time.

What happened when the clock flown around the world returned to the spot where the other clock was? As Einstein had predicted in a general way, the clocks no longer showed the same time—the clock on the jet was behind by a few billionths of a second. Why such a small difference? Well, 600 mph is fast but still just the tiniest fraction of the speed of light. To see any significant differences in time, you'd have to be traveling many millions of miles an hour faster. "

2 clocks, different times in relation to each other, sound familiar...

I"m not to sure what to make of it (as usual, I feel like the coyote in the epi where he finaly catches the roadrunner, looks at the audience and raises a sign saying "Now what!"...)

My feeling is that we're going to get more details on what is going on in the outside world in relation to the island, maybe...or not....Damn you Lost writers!!!

#336. Posted by: One of the six at February 26, 2008 9:08 PM

@chapdave #332

An interesting post, I went back and listened and it does almost sound like "Where's Jeff Eubanks?" (I'm pretty sure I know where he is).

Have some thoughts on the Aaron/Kate/Jack thing. In the parking garage exchange Kate says she understands why Jack does not want to see "the baby".

1. Aaron is a bit old to be referred to as a baby.

2. The exchange almost sounds like she is talking about someone Jack has never seen.

3. I can not think of a plausible reason Jack would not want to see Aaron, the whole guilt thing just does not make sense to me.

This leads me to think its possible that Kate is both raising Aaron (not as her biological child in this scenario) and also has a child fathered by Sawyer.

I really do not believe this to be the case but the idea keeps haunting the back of my mind (a very scary place to be even for ghosts - just ask Miles).

#337. Posted by: Debunker at February 26, 2008 9:27 PM

Sorry, I so need a my lost fix, I thought we were Wednesday (time realy is relative to what you compare it to...)

#338. Posted by: One of the six at February 26, 2008 9:40 PM

BTW, what I forgot to add is that for Einstein, the only constant in the universe is the speed of light (remember what the "c" stands for in E=mc2)

Have a nice one everybody!


#339. Posted by: One of the six at February 27, 2008 8:53 AM

Re: 320 by Mister_Grimm:
"As much as your arguments make sense I can’t help but disagree. Aaron is not one of the Oceanic 6 - just my gut telling me so"

Aaron IS one of the Oceanic 6. If Aaron turns out to NOT be one of the 6 then I will eat my hat.

Now excuse me...gotta run. I see there's a sale on chocolate hats at my local supermarket!

#340. Posted by: JoePike at February 27, 2008 9:37 AM

@ One of the six/#336: That is some interesting stuff...now check out what I found!!!!

Train A leaves the station at 2:11pm traveling north at approx 66mph....Train B leaves the same station traveling in the opposite direction going approx 46mph. If both trains are carrying 4 polar bears, 12 choked chickens, and 1 inoperable sonic death pylon...what time then will each train plow through the nexus of the universe to find Aaron and Walt playing hop-scotch on the freighter?

#341. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 27, 2008 11:02 AM

@RNM: 1:08 pm

#342. Posted by: mac at February 27, 2008 11:05 AM

Aliens in paradise.
The island of 4 toed aliens has existed for centuries. Their base contains a ship/temple that radiates an extreme electro magnetic field. So strong that a space/time abnormality engulfs and virtual hides the island. Over the centuries these aliens have interbred with humans that happened onto the island. There are genetic abnormalities though, so 100% successful reproduction has presented a challenge for them. Eventually these hybrids have been able to leave the island and infiltrate the world population in various sectors. Covert to the general population they have succeeded in establishing a substantial power base. Although initially unaware, Ben and some of the Oceanic survivors are offspring of this alien infiltration. Like salmon migrating home they find themselves by accident or grand design returning to the mother ship. It appears these hybrids can be ruthless, inflicting pain with a low regard for life. This probably stems from the amazing regeneration properties of their species and environment on the island. As our losties become more self aware they will realize there really is no place like home and despite the pros & cons staying on the island is best.

#343. Posted by: JST at February 27, 2008 11:10 AM

@mac: close....1:11 pm
lol

#344. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 27, 2008 11:32 AM

"This probably stems from the amazing regeneration properties of their species and environment on the island."- JST (#343)

GADS MAN! You mean all these people are actually cockroaches!?!?!?!

#345. Posted by: davidrh at February 27, 2008 12:36 PM

@340 Posted by: JoePike

"Aaron IS one of the Oceanic 6. If Aaron turns out to NOT be one of the 6 then I will eat my hat."

Lol! Instead of a chocolate hat, you should go a la Homer Simpson style, and get a sombrero that is made of nachos, with salsa poured in on the top. You break a piece off, dip, eat, and then you can sing: "Nacho Nacho man... I wanna be, a Nacho man!"

#346. Posted by: shikotee at February 27, 2008 1:28 PM

Aliens in paradise.
re: → 343. Posted by: JST
... island of 4 toed aliens... have interbred with humans... There are genetic abnormalities though,...
______________
Well, at least that would genetically explain one "bug-eyed freak" running around the island.

(and the lack of sun-burned necks).

#347. Posted by: DocH at February 27, 2008 1:53 PM

if kate is a cockroach...i personally volunteer to put her down....pshhhhhhhhh

#348. Posted by: Tfoulikum at February 27, 2008 2:00 PM

Longtime lurker. Mac, you're a treat (even better than a Scooby Snack!)

Some comments if anyone's still reading:

@310 and 336 – One of the six:

Excellent theory about Einstein and relativity and how time doesn't stay consistent as you approach the speed of light (or something like that). Certainly ties in to Dan's comment about the light being weird on the island.

Just a thought: Rousseau has been such a random, irrelevant character that it seems at some point she has to come into play in a bigger way (guess we'll have to wait til we see her in someone's backstory). Otherwise, why would the writers waste their time with her character (unless they're Paolikki).

So many comments last few weeks -- we're gonna need a bigger blog (WGNABB)

#349. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 27, 2008 2:14 PM

I'd settle for a WIDER blog.

The width here only allows about 65 characters per line. I'd like to get that up to at least 100 characters (less vertical scrolling). And yes, I know every PC tip and trick in the book to maximize/optimize my screen real estate.

#350. Posted by: DocH at February 27, 2008 2:42 PM

To #91 Gator Gal:
This post contains a spoiler regarding an upcoming episode, albeit a mild spoiler, but a spoiler just the same. Please don't do that here without a little warning at the top of the post. Many of us work very hard to remain spoiler-free. Thanks.

#351. Posted by: bees at February 27, 2008 2:54 PM

Sorry to repost something from this season's first episode comments....but I was just giggling out loud remembering. PS - I really hope someone is actually keeping a list of this years 'LOST: Lines of the Year'.

'Can someone please explain to me the comment about Cindy's scarf being Naomi's sister? I just don't get it.

→ 190. Posted by: BEMH at February 4, 2008 12:04 PM '

#352. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 27, 2008 3:01 PM

I think the blog width is a frame that allows for the ads down the right hand side. (Mac does have to feed that baby.)


We're getting so many comments today that we run past the ads and see a lot of blank space over there. Too bad the blog can't expand once it runs past the ads.

We could always go play in the forums, and get most of the width of the screens, but no one seems to want to do that. Alaïs_Longthought seems to be the only blog-poster that's coinsistently in the forums, unless people are using different names over there.

#353. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 27, 2008 3:03 PM

@Cecil Rose #353: Well, I could make a comment about swinging both ways, but that would give people the wrong idea. ; > ; > ; >


#354. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 27, 2008 3:18 PM

re: → 354. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought
Well, I could make a comment about swinging both ways, but that would give people the wrong idea. ; > ; > ; >
________
What makes you think we don't already have the wrong idea?
[;^o
________
re: → 353. Posted by: Cecil Rose
________
I get the blog ad revenue angle.
I am just sitting here at my 1440 pixel wide, Hi-def, flat screen, LCD (oh-oh-oh) cadillac of a monitor, wanting more FilmFodder per scroll.

#355. Posted by: DocH at February 27, 2008 4:03 PM

OK--solution for ilovebenjaminlinusxx and meg..........
ilovebenjaminlinusxx gets benjumin linus because she, well, loves benjamin linus. Meg however seemed more into the actor in general so Meg gets Michael Emerson. Seems like an equitable solution to me!

I think Claire is one of the eight but not one of the six. Des saw her get on a helicopter in his vision. Something happens too her between the helicopter and getting back to the mainland. thus she survives the 815 crash but is not one of the 6 ultimate survivors.

Also liking Charlie as one of the 8 since as someone pointed out, he spoke to Penny before he died and so there is someone who knows he survived the 815 crash.

S'll I got. Hope I get in here earlier on next episode's blog. Been a little busy lately.......

#356. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 27, 2008 4:24 PM

One more legal/writing issue.
If Kate was in prison pending trial, her "child" would have placed in the care of a guardian, the nearest living relative, or if none, state care in a foster home. If Kate was alone, then her mother would have had custody or access to her grandchild.
Since that did not occur, the only conclusion is that the child, Aaron, remained with his "father" while Kate was in custody. A "nanny" or housekeeper would not have legal custody of the child since she would be classified as a stranger. Further, since parents control the upbringing of a child, in many states grandparents have no "visitation" rights This is why Kate's mother could not see Aaron without Kate or Aaron's "father's" permission. So to tie these matters up, Kate would have to be living with a man claiming to be Aaron's father.

#357. Posted by: welh at February 27, 2008 5:19 PM

Excellent point, welh!

So the options are:

Kate has a Baby-Daddy. How does this relate to her parking garage convo with Jack? I think she said "come visit us" which could include a husband or significant other. Does anyone remember exactly what she said? (Feeling too lazy to look it up myself.)

OR -- The writers ignored yet another legal issue affecting the story.

OR -- Aaron's existence is not public knowledge. This would allow Kate to leave him with the nanny. But her attorney and Jack did know about him, and also most tellingly, her estranged mother. So this seems unlikely, but still an option.

*********

@Scooby-Dude: Love the handle! I’ve been eagerly anticipating Rousseau’s backstory, also. And if there is a time differential on the island vs. the real world, it doesn’t seem to have affected Rousseau. It has been 16 years since she arrived in both timelines. Unless she’s lying ;)

#358. Posted by: Clementine at February 27, 2008 5:53 PM

Was someone looking for me?

#359. Posted by: Jeff Eubanks at February 27, 2008 6:59 PM

344/Red...Neck...Man
"@mac: close....1:11 pm lol"

Actually, it should be 12:40pm. You forgot to account for the Island Time Anomoly (ITA).

#360. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 27, 2008 8:47 PM

@Scooby-Dude

Waiting for Rousseau to be in a flash back too. Should be great.

@Clementine

Interesting you point out that Rousseau's time lines up with the real world, someone should inform Dan of this.

#361. Posted by: dakota at February 27, 2008 10:29 PM

@352 What's with Naomi's sister being Cindy scarf?

Well once upon a time Cindy had a scarf that was the sister of Naomi. The scarf fell in love and then ran off with some guy named Red...Neck...Man and hasn't been heard of since.

It's been said if you are on a remote Pacific Island and listen real close late at night you can still hear whispers talking about the time Red...Neck...Man met his scarferLoo

#362. Posted by: SamFin at February 27, 2008 10:53 PM

Going back to Cindy's Scarf (which I think was an offspring of a love affair between the Smoke Monster and Rousseau). Rousseau had twins, one white, one black. One good, one bad. Naomi is the bad twin, but Cindy's Scarf is the good one. Though it is obvious that Cindy's Scarf made it off the island as Kate's mother was wearing it in this last episode's flash forward. The debate remains as to if in fact Cindy's scarf is one of the Oceanic 6. Granted Cindy was wearing it on the flight, it was not a ticketed passenger. Personally I think it is not one of the Oceanic 6. And the scarf is now working as an assassin for Ben Linus. It's currently around Kate's mom's neck and if Ben says the word, it strangles her. This is truly why Kate's Mom didn't testify.

Sorry guys, it's that "24 hours til next Lost episode" craziness that we all get.

That's all I got... til next post

#363. Posted by: callaway76 at February 27, 2008 11:11 PM

I re-watched Eggtown last night. ANTL - Anyone Notice The Lovebirds? I've read most of the posts and no one seems to be making an issue about Sun dropping the bomb on Jin - yeah, it's great that you've learned English for me, but now I want to go back to Korea to raise our baby. (I still think Juliet lied and the baby was conceived pre-plane crash.)If either Sun or Jin or both are part of the Six (or Eight), does Jack fly over on weekends to visit with his Golden Pass?
It kills me how many "ifs" we have to put into our posts. How will the writers manage to knit together all these bits and pieces and ever leave the obsessed fans satisfied?

#364. Posted by: jaybee at February 28, 2008 6:56 AM

!!! How do we know that Rousseau's time line isn't off by 31 minutes ???

#365. Posted by: JT at February 28, 2008 8:20 AM

No one replied or commented on my post regarding the "LOST" video game but I thought I'd write up a little blurb here - hope you don't mind Mac.

The game is visually stunning - the actors have all been re-created digitally in amazing detail - I counted the freckles on Kate's face. The island is recreated in great detail - compared to what I've seen on TV it looks exactly the same. The gameplay takes a little getting used to because the controls are a little twitchy, but so far I'm very happy with the experience. All the main characters are there and they do interact with you and vice-a-versa. The game is not a shoot 'em up - run and gun FPS. It's more like a 3D platform game with puzzle solving and exploration. There are supposed to be a couple of missions where shooting is required but it's not the core of the game play experience. So far I've helped Jack stop a fuel leak from one of the engines after the crash, I've explored some of the jungle, I've seen and heard Smokey, and I've started exploring a set of caves while I try and make my way to the cockpit section. I only played for about an hour out of fear that I would stay up all night and not make it into work today. All in all it was an above average experience and I'm enjoying every minute of staring at digital Kate (Yes - I know I have issues).

Anywho - just thought I'd let any ppotential gamers know that if they're a fan of the show and like videogames that it might be worth checking out.

#366. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 8:40 AM

@Mister_Grimm: I don't mind at all. Thanks for the write-up!

#367. Posted by: mac at February 28, 2008 8:55 AM

@366 Mister_Grimm:

>... I've seen and heard Smokey...

But did Smokey see you?

And if so, what images flashed inside him as he did?

#368. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 9:23 AM

@Cecil Rose -> 368:

Smokey saw me and chased me but I hid amid the roots of some Bania trees and he couldn't get to me - he also didn't flash me (yet). After a few seconds of circling he disappeared into the jungle.

#369. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 9:26 AM

I will advise about one negative aspect regarding the game so far - the beginning of the game involves alot of tutorials showing you how to accomplish certain actions - the tutorials are presented through the characters from the show as dialogue with your character. This makes the gaming experience slow to a little bit of a crawl, but once you're through the tutorials it is a much smoother experience.

Also, the creators of the show have stated that the game is not "canon". You witness key moments from the show and none of the mysteries are answered. The game is supposed to let you experience the island as a survivor of the crash. Your character has amnesia when he wakes up from the crash and his past is revealed through flashbacks. The games takes place during seasons 1 - 3 (part of the way through season 3 anyway, because Juliet's character is in the game).

You get to explore all the hatches that have already been seen on the show as well as some areas of the Swan hatch and the island that the show never explored.

I'll let you know if the overall game experience is worth it.

#370. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 9:36 AM

Well, it's still two days for me before I can see tonight's Lost. So to while away the time, I've been watching House. I remember back in the old days of this blog there was someone plugging their blog for House. Was it you davidrh? or maybe it was Red....Neck...Man? Anyway, I can't find it anymore. Did it go away?

Sorry to be completely off topic, Mac. But I did first hear about House on this blog! I goggled House blogs but can't find anything. Help!

On a Lost note, I was so impressed with everyone's comments this week. Every time I wanted to add something, I just scrolled down a little and their was my comment. However, I'm on the side of "Aaron not one of the six." Jack clearly says, "there were 8 of us that survived the crash" I don't see him counting Claire and Aaron as two people.

#371. Posted by: En Provence at February 28, 2008 9:49 AM

Why wouldn't Jack count them as 2 people? Aaron was alive in Claire's belly, and he survived the crash just like Claire did. If Aaron wasn't on the plane to survive the crash, then where was he?

The only real question is... (drum roll please)... was Turnip-Head publicly rescued along with the other people? If the answer to that question is yes, then Aaron is one of the 6.

If that answer to that is no, then obviously Aaron is not one of the 6 and somehow got off the island some other way.

#372. Posted by: JoePike at February 28, 2008 10:32 AM

@Mister_Grimm
Do you know if they make the Video game for WII?

Only 10 and a half hours to go.

#373. Posted by: dakota at February 28, 2008 10:38 AM

There's nothing like pulling up the blog at work and reading about 10mins of 'The True Tales of Cindy's Scarf'. I feel blessed.

Also, slight spoiler alert, but I found out that after Paulo took a dump at the ? Hatch, he flushed, and...you guessed it...it actually flushed 31mins later!! Man...I have IBS and I don't poop anywhere near as much as that dead loser.

#374. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 28, 2008 10:41 AM

Man...I have IBS and I don't poop anywhere near as much as that dead loser.

→ 374. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man

Hahahahaha!!

#375. Posted by: AC at February 28, 2008 10:49 AM

USA Today published a preview of tonights episode where Cusick states: "you'll find out why it's so difficult to get to the island". That' huge! That could eliminate some of the theories...or, is it possible that the writers would leave us even more confused? Hmmmm.

#376. Posted by: JT at February 28, 2008 11:11 AM

@371 En Provence asked:

>...So to while away the time, I've been watching House. I remember back in the old days of this blog there was someone plugging their blog for House. Was it you davidrh? or maybe it was Red....Neck...Man? Anyway, I can't find it anymore. Did it go away?

>Sorry to be completely off topic, Mac. But I did first hear about House on this blog! I goggled House blogs but can't find anything. Help!

Me, ME, Me, teacher! (waving hand!)

The URL is:

http://www*tvfodder*com/house

or google "house" + "tvfodder"

or just go up to the top of this page and click on "TV+", then "TV Drama", then "House"

Or you can call me Ray, or you can call me "J", or...

Unfortunately "House" is in a writer's strike induced hiatus right now, but you're (that's you all, y'all) welcome to peruse the back reviews. I've been blogging "House" since the second season of Rome folded around a year ago. Rumor is that five or six new episodes will air in April/May.

Commentary welcome. I get just a *few* less than mac . We now return you to "Lost" related looniness. (10 hours and counting). I think we will get some startling revelations from Dan Faraday tonight.

#377. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 11:12 AM

@dakota -->373

No - they make it for the PS3, Xbox360, and the PC.

#378. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 11:13 AM

→ 356. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 27, 2008 04:24 PM

Best theory yet about the 6/8.

Wasn't it Cecil Rose who had the house blog??

Cindy's scarf....I keep giggling to myself while reading it. Where is Cindy?? That's one of the biggest mysteries I'd like to see an answer to. Where are the kids?? I think we definitely need the backstory on Naomi, and her love affair with Cindy's scarf. Was it a love affair???

#379. Posted by: meg at February 28, 2008 11:15 AM

→ 363. Posted by: callaway76 at February 27, 2008 11:11 PM

MJ2COMN - My Juice just came out of my nose!!

I'm going to have to go back and watch again for the scarf. I always knoew that Kate's mom must have known Cindy.


Oh, and as to the equitable division of Ben, and the actor who plays Ben, I am giving my half of Ben to Cindy's scarf!

#380. Posted by: meg at February 28, 2008 11:20 AM

How far forward was the flash of Kate's trial?

We'd been leaning toward "four years" because that's how long Kate's mom told her the doctors had been giving her "six month to live" prognoses.

Someone on another blog pointed out that in the credits for "Eggtown" the actor playing Aaron is credited as "Two Year Old Boy". Ergo, barring any major time slips geting off the island, the flash is apparently two years in the future, from present-day island activities.

#381. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 12:54 PM

@DocH #355: Always leave 'em guessing, that's my motto... ; >

@Cecil Rose #381: I don't think we can really date Kate's FF by using Diane's comment about her six-month prognosis, as we don't know 1) when she got sick or 2) whether the drs. told her that when she first got sick or whether she was told that after she had been sick for a while. If Kate's Aaron is being credited as "Two-Year-Old Boy," & Claire's Aaron was born in the fall of 2004 (the exact date escapes me), then we can date Kate's trial to be sometime between the fall of 2006 (when Aaron would turn two) & the fall of 2007 (when Aaron would turn three).

#382. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 28, 2008 1:26 PM

@Cecil and Alaïs: I must refer you to my post #242 for Aaron/trial/future-flash timeline speculation and dates. Of course, my post was incredibly long, so just skip about half-way down to the "Two Year Old Boy" paragraph, if you're interested.

@JoePike: I still don't think Aaron is one of the Six :)

Sorry, I just like to mess with you.

But, really, I don't think he is :))

What do you think? :)))

#383. Posted by: Clementine at February 28, 2008 2:14 PM

@Clementine #383: Thanks for the referral...I should have looked back over the posts! But it's nice to know we're on the same page time-wise.

Speaking of time, less than seven hours to go...

#384. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 28, 2008 2:31 PM

I just solved one of the Lost secrets!

Picture this... a while back I was sitting at home watching TV. A teaser for the 'Sarah Conner Chronicles" came on. I was ecstatic. Not only was it a Terminator spin off but one of the stars is Summer Glau (a favorite of mine)!

"I've got to watch that," I think to myself. But then - in a fast paced, high pitched legal disclaimer type of voice - the teaser ends with, "Monday 8/7 Central."

Now, what exactly does that mean? What time exactly is this show actually on? And what if I'm in the Mountain time zone? Pacific? Eastern? Or what about a transdimensional, magnetic shield covered, can-only-get-there-from-a-325-bearing island that can move all over the globe and has a time anomaly that makes you a good 31 minutes off time wise time zone?

This definitely explains why Karl has never watched the Brady Bunch or any other TV shows!

#385. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 28, 2008 2:33 PM

I'm pretty sure that the last scene in the Economist where Sayid was revealed to be working for Ben actually took place in RNM's fax room.

#386. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 28, 2008 2:43 PM

@ Mister_Grimm

Thank you, guess I will have to wait.

#387. Posted by: dakota at February 28, 2008 2:43 PM

So it took 2-3 years before Kate's trial was done? I'm assuming she was out on bail that whole time (sympathy factor?) since Aaron called her mom. If she was a fugitive, how did they let her stay out of jail that whole time? Just bad legal substance to this episode.

#388. Posted by: Rudy at February 28, 2008 3:20 PM

****POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT****

I say possible because it involves Ben, Jacob, the circle of ash, and the cabin.

I own Season 3 on Blu-Ray (All Hail the Hi-Def !) part of the commentary deals with the episode "The Man Behind the Curtain" - When we see the circle of ash around Jacob's cabin the commentary claims that Ben uses the ash to contain Jacob and that Jacob has the means to contro Ben, to an extent. They didn't elaborate on either point.

For those of you that have read the above - what do you think they meant?

#389. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 3:48 PM

Sorry - I meant "control Ben".

#390. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at February 28, 2008 3:54 PM

Speaking or 325 bearings (or $3.2 M)...

In the previews of this week broadcast after last week's show...

...look away quickly if you don't want to be spoiled...

When the helicopter is flying into the thunderstorm, there's a quick view of the instrument panel. Freezing and magnifying (ain't DVRs wonderful?) I see that the heading on the directional gyro is 310. This may or may not be significant.

We never hear from physicist Dan just what that "bearing we came in on" is, just that pilot Frank should not deviate from it. 325 was the heading that Ben gave Michael in the S-2 finale. Maybe the 'safe bearing' moves around over time.

Of course, especially in aircraft, bearing and heading aren't the same thing, anyway. To maintain a course over the land (or sea) an aircraft may have to adjust its heading to maintain a constant course (or bearing from a point) because of cross winds. The title of tonight's episode is, btw, "The Constant".

Thus if the wind was from the left, an aircraft might have to turn into it (at say, 310 degrees) to maintain a constant course of 325. The exact amount of crab is a function of the crosswind component of the wind and the speed of the aircraft itself.

Then there's the question of whether that bearing is magnetic or true. If true, how can the helicopter determine it? Directional gyros are just an inertially stabilized platform, but they are synched to a magnetic compass to get their initial direction. Aircraft normally determine true course by measuring magnetic course and correcting for the declination between magnetic and true north that prevails in a given location. In Raleigh compasses point about 7 degrees west of the true north pole.

This declination is normally published on maps. But of couse the island is some sort of magnetic anomally, so who knows if there is even a hope of knowing the magnetic declination a a particular point?

And lastly, I again point out that two weeks ago we saw the helicopter leave the shoreline of the island, and *then make a course change of at least twenty degrees*!

#391. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 4:07 PM

The Einstein ‘Theory of Relativity’ was published in 1905. As written in the blog earlier it presents the time paradox when accelerating up to the speed of light. In 1915 Einstein had an addendum to this theory, which was gravity also warps the fabric of time & space. He stated that the force of gravity is equivalent to acceleration and if motion affects the measurement of time & space then gravity does the same thing.
I am trying to make sense of Daniel’s experiments & comments, also Desmond’s hatch that displayed abnormal magnetic properties. My conclusion at this point is the island has abnormal magnetic/gravity properties. This could be the result of nature or some system devised by the Others. Me thinks when Dharma was there studying all the abnormalities of the island, they built the hatch with the electro magnetic system in an attempt to counteract the time anomaly. They may of needed this magnetic anchor to survive and interact with the outside world. Now that the hatch is history the island is again drifting away. Just a theory! But it to is all relative!
T.G.I.Thursday

#392. Posted by: JST at February 28, 2008 4:18 PM

"Eggtown" deleted scene:

The Real Reason Why Miles Is So Unhappy?

Hurley (confessing to Locke): "Sorry... I kind of blabbed to Kate that you stashed that ghost whisperer dude down in the boat house next to the fish pond."

Locke (grinning slightly): "I appreciate your candor Hugo, but that is the pump house for the septic pond."

Hurley (raises eyebrows): "Poor guy... I've been in the can all morning with Irritable Bowel Syndrome."

#393. Posted by: DocH at February 28, 2008 4:27 PM

Hey Clementine, do I think Aaron is one of the 6 or not? Hmmmm...I haven't given it much thought... I'll have to decide if I want to have a strong opinion or not. I'll let you know.

Now you must excuse me. I've got to go buy a choco-hat.

#394. Posted by: JoePike at February 28, 2008 4:31 PM

→ 391. Posted by: Cecil Rose

I am with you on the Mag vs. True heading / bearing debate but I have to land on the side of magnetic heading. Ben gives Michael a "compass" bearing to leave in the boat. While true heading would be most desirable to get to an exact place, a constant magnetic heading is needed to slip out of the magnetic anomaly. Sort of like an unsealed envelope stuck to a spinning top, only one way out - thru the seal - regardless of what the envelope is doing in relation to the rest of world.
I am sure the mag variation is crazy on the island... a 325 mag heading is local only to the helo/boat. Heck, they could pop out on the Southeast side of the island - 160NM from the freighter. Maybe that was why Frank is so concerned about not having enough fuel.
________________
Transcript S2E24
Ben: "I'm not happy about the arrangement that was made with you Michael, but we got more than we bargained for when Walt joined us, so I suppose this is what's best. And you let me go, set me free... you lived up to your word. We live up to our word, too. Do you know how to drive a boat?

Michael: "Yeah, I can drive a boat.

Ben: Good, then you're going to take this boat and follow a compass bearing of 325, and if you do that exactly, you and your son will find rescue.

Michael: Well that's it? I follow the bearing and me and my son get rescued?

#395. Posted by: DocH at February 28, 2008 4:54 PM

@ JST (392)
So in that case if the hatch/island is one gigantic gravitational magnet – we've seen evidence of this when the buttons weren't pushed (flying metal objects inside the hatch and a rather large airplane being pulled from the sky onto the island during the first "event") – then Ben really is one of the good guys and wasn't lying when he told Locke he was saving the world by pushing the buttons. And "it's getting worse" because, with the hatch destroyed, the island's magnetic pull is warping time. But which is worse – gigantic magnet sucking the earth in on itself or doing the time warp again?

#396. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 28, 2008 5:29 PM

-Cecil Rose
-Doc H
-R N M
-And all you other brainiacs...

Who ARE you?! (rhetorical) I feel so intellectually inadequate posting my feeble comments. Henceforth, I shall continue to read and only be enlightened by your insights, theories, postulates, etc. Unless, of course, I just can't stand it anymore and have to weigh in. I'm on MST, so must wait 3 1/2 more hours to showtime. The agony is killing me. Namaste...and you all... everybody.

#397. Posted by: lovelost at February 28, 2008 5:37 PM

Dude, Regina is PENNY.
she said, "why are you calling on this number?" when charlie shut down the blocking device. those are the EXACT words that Regina said when the losties called her on the "emergency number"
she also has a Penny-like voice.

any thoughts??

#398. Posted by: kaseygirl106 at February 28, 2008 6:17 PM

>@397. Posted by: lovelost at February 28, 2008 05:37 PM (EST) [03:37 PM MST]

>I'm on MST, so must wait 3 1/2 more hours to showtime. The agony is killing me. Namaste...and you all... everybody.

You guys get "Lost" at 7:00 PM out there?

#399. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 6:21 PM

@398 kaseygirl106 said:

Dude, Regina is PENNY.
she said, "why are you calling on this number?" when charlie shut down the blocking device. those are the EXACT words that Regina said when the losties called her on the "emergency number" she also has a Penny-like voice.

any thoughts??

Sorry to pop this bubble, but...

Penny asks how he got the *frequency*, not number.

Penny is confused by the mention of a boat and denies being on one.

Penny is confused by the mention of Naomi and denies knowledge of her.

and desmond SAW Penny on the vid sccreen (different discussion)


Courtesy of Lost-TV*com:

CHARLIE: Incoming transmission!

[He quickly presses it, and Penelope Widmore appears on the view-screen]

PENNY: Hello?! Can you hear me?

CHARLIE: Yes, yes I can hear you.

PENNY: Who is this? Who am I speaking to?

CHARLIE: Charlie er... Charlie Pace, I'm a survivor of Flight eight-one-five, Oceanic Flight eight-one-five.

PENNY: Er... where are you?

CHARLIE: We're on an Island, we're alive.

PENNY: An Island!! Well where, what's your location?

CHARLIE: I dunno. Who's this?

PENNY: This is Penelope. Penelope Widmore. How did you get this frequency?

CHARLIE: [Shouts] Desmond? Desmond!

PENNY: Did you just say Desmond?

CHARLIE: Yeah, he's here, he's with me.

PENNY: [Smiles] Is he OK?

CHARLIE: He's brilliant! Hey, are you on the boat?

PENNY: What, what boat?

CHARLIE: Your boat, eighty miles off shore. Er... Naomi, parachutist.

PENNY: Bu, I'm not on a boat, who, who's Naomi?

[Desmond looks around the moon pool room, and notices Mikhail's body is missing. In the comms room, a tap at the window cause Charlie to turn. Mikhail is outside in the water, with a grenade in his hand]

PENNY: Hello, hello is Desmond there? Desmond, can you hear me? Desmond?

[Mikhail pulls the cork. Charlie turns to see Desmond running toward the room, and he rushes to close the door. As he does so, Desmond sees the video screen]

PENNY: Can you hear me?

DESMOND: Penny!!! No...

#400. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 6:34 PM

@ JoePike
I think you're going to end up eating your hat. I'm telling you, Aaron can't be one of the six!

It's almost here!!! Can't wait!!!

#401. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 28, 2008 6:50 PM

My theory
Not only is Aaron Jack's nephew by his half sister Claire, but Aaron is also Jack's half brother. Christian is not just Claire's father but he is also Aaron's father. This is why Jack cannot bring himself to see the child in the episode "Eggtown". Think Chinatown.

#402. Posted by: profpablo at February 28, 2008 7:04 PM

@profpablo: Ew, yuck! And I don't think so. Claire's boyfriend Thomas is Aaron's father.

99 minutes and counting...

#403. Posted by: Clementine at February 28, 2008 7:22 PM

You guys get "Lost" at 7:00 PM out there? → 399. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 28, 2008 06:21 PM

The rerun w/captions at 7. I'm just so hungry for more LOST. The real deal at 8.

#404. Posted by: lovelost at February 28, 2008 7:44 PM

@ Cecil Rose - 391

A little "tranche de vie" (slice of life)

As a prosecutor I used to live in a littlt northen Inuit village called Kuujjuaq (look at at map and reflect on who was worse off: the people on the island or me...)

You really brought back memories with the "crab" comment because having on several occasions been a witness to this, it can be a pretty weird experience.

We traveled from village to village on the Ungava Bay between Kuujjuaq and Salluit (look at a map again and you'll understand...) on a Beechcraft King Air B200 (8 passanger, you can't stand up in it, now bathroom "luxery" airplane).

Now the first time you go through a landing approach, at night, during a snow-storm with a 70k wind at 90 degrees, you learn what "crab" is when you look out through the cockpit windshield (yeah the plane IS that small) and you notice that the nose is pointing at least a good 30 degrees off-angle with the runway.

Now, not being a aeronautical engineer, you say to yourself, well, if I can see that so can the pilot and he must know what he's doing and he probably doen't want to die today either (well your hoping that any way...).

Then you notice that even at this angle the plane is heading right for the runway...Pretty weird (and scarey) feeling.

Anyway, just wanted to share this with you guys (if anybody's still out there).

@lovelost - 397

I've got hte internet to thank for rendering all this scientific stuff accessible.

If you take the time to look smething up, it's there.

I usaly just take a few keywords from a theory I may have and punch them into Google and VOILA

No real credit

That's all for now, T minus6f minutes and counting (more or less 31 minutes depending on where you are....)

#405. Posted by: One of the six at February 28, 2008 7:54 PM

Just read my post...man...a good Italien red combined with some cold medecine really create some weird typos!

#406. Posted by: One of the six at February 28, 2008 8:00 PM

One quick question / tasker for TPTB or the old-heads here before tonights' fun begins... how come we haven't seen a "Simpson-ized" version of the four freighter tot newbies? (Miles, Charlotte, Frank & Daniel).

#407. Posted by: DocH at February 28, 2008 8:05 PM

How come the hour before Lost goes so slow but once Lost starts, time just flies?

Must have something to do with the island time anomaly.

#408. Posted by: bcre8ve at February 28, 2008 8:40 PM

Each LOST hour is only 31 minutes long. ; )

#409. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 28, 2008 11:35 PM

Forgive the typos (there's now some beer combined with that Italien red...Here's to you Damon...)

Can't wait for Mac"s post and man I love this show.

OK, here goes

Tonight confirmed that Dan IS definately THE MAN.

Also, for some obscure reason that we'll come to now later, Frank also is a good guy (or just has his own agenda) "a la" Juliet.

Now this Epi helped to answer some questions and establish some priNcipals that have to be followed;

1- Time travel doen't necessitate the displacement of your body (Eloise never moved!)....it's where your conscience is at that's important (confirms the old adage that seeing IS believing (as long as your mind thinks it's seeing it....)

2- You NEED to have a constant in your life (or not if you don't mind your brain liquifying and coming out of your nose and eyes....

3- dsaf.gmnfhg wGOHOAHSG (sorry a bit drunk and tired.....)

4- !!!!! ONE OF THE NUMBERS!!!!! (I believe there was at least one reference tonight, the lot number for the Black Rock's ledger was "2342"

BTW is it me or did Widmore give me the impression that he knew what was going on when he gave Desmond Penny's address.

That's all for now....GRAAM (it's a future-flash to what i"ll be writing tomorrow)

#410. Posted by: One of the six at February 28, 2008 11:37 PM

@410 One of the six said:

>4- !!!!! ONE OF THE NUMBERS!!!!! (I believe there was at least one reference tonight, the lot number for the Black Rock's ledger was "2342"

And the first constant future Des brought back into past-Des's head for past-Dan's experiment was 2.342 - though strangely the frequency (11 Hz) wasn't one of the numbers.

#411. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 29, 2008 9:17 AM

Hi ho you all everybody. I'm just caught up reading all 411 posts and now am ready to go to last night's MAC recap and read the 100+ posts already there. I've been so busy reading, I haven't had time to post! (Bad for me, good for you...)
Hey RNM - aren't you supposed to be last?

#412. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 29, 2008 4:35 PM

I am sorry that I've have not read every blog entry after #11 But come on! Has anyone thought about the fact that #1 Kate's 4 year future is a flash forward? #2 Jack's lie about the crash was a requirement of being rescued and that the rest of the survivors are still on the island (ie locke)? #3 Jack has no mountain man look, but still has the jeep that he parked on the bridge the night he saved the woman/tried to kill himself. #2a Going back for a sec.....the Oceanic 6 or 8 what have you...whoever rescued them, made them tell that story so as to not reveal the real story of the survivors that stayed behind OR!!!!! Maybe the boaters could not find Ben and wanted to keep it all a secret..........remember Miles $ request and that Sayid is working for Ben in the flash forward, Just a couple thoughts of many.

#413. Posted by: goodnight at March 2, 2008 9:42 PM

re comment 413 by goodnight
Longest... Sentence... Ever...
You said some stuff that we all knew. Now. Tell us what you are thinking.

#414. Posted by: MorBid0 at March 2, 2008 10:45 PM

At the beginning of the Ep a bearded man yells to Kate as she is walking into the court house "WHAT DID JACK DO TO HER".

Did anyone else catch this?
Who is the man asking about?
Does anyone recognize him?

#415. Posted by: W33DDY at March 4, 2008 6:32 PM

to mrbido #414
sorry about the late thoughts on my entry. Did not mean to screw up any ideas...however.. the punctuation at the end of a sentence that includes a question mark or a period or even an exclamation point does conclude a sentence. So, that is why it is not the longest sentence ever. Thank you for reading.

#416. Posted by: goodnight at March 4, 2008 9:10 PM

This will be so far down the list of blogs that I'm sure it won't be read. Or, this may have been covered at some point. However, just in case, does anybody remember Claire's psychic from season one? He claimed that she had to be the one to raise the baby...or else. Never established the or else, but this adds a curious twist to Kate's custodial role with Aaron, who calls her mom. Wouldn't this consitute as another person raising Aaron? Will he turn into a serial killer or something since Kate is raising him? Perhaps I just think about this show a little more than is healthy.

#417. Posted by: herg at March 6, 2008 11:37 AM

RNMiL

#418. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 17, 2008 12:34 PM

number of parts, than in those of a more trifling nature, the division is friendster layouts resources sites person who possesses them, and pays that rent for them such as shops, jevbuaumpp

#419. Posted by: Katherine at March 29, 2008 5:18 AM

number of parts, than in those of a more trifling nature, the division is friendster layouts resources sites person who possesses them, and pays that rent for them such as shops, jevbuaumpp

#420. Posted by: Katherine at March 29, 2008 5:18 AM

It should as readily occur, that the quantity of gold and silver black and white friendster layouts to be let to a tenant for rent, as the house itself can produce nothing, the pkkqjxvgcf

#421. Posted by: Karen at March 29, 2008 6:00 PM

grass grown track the water running in the vale was the one lulling alexis love lesbian galleries some years was not absolutely certain of her existence No one saw kuyftjupzqk

#422. Posted by: Jackie at April 22, 2008 3:44 AM

kqya zxhnaoj kudxln yiapsdzc nzkv lyczosui rdkbm

#423. Posted by: ijgewpdfm bsjgfnchx at May 20, 2008 4:38 AM

ebxsm mopxj nixyb zqced dknjy aykxmjuqv kqgxbf http://www.atyjguev.kfaoc.com

#424. Posted by: jhityq dyuswlfn at May 20, 2008 4:40 AM

akgv furwgio tcjrmg gaosyc ldexjc omzxqrs tflscudva qilxhuvg hwubcdng

#425. Posted by: jgpkxcbd mpqwd at May 20, 2008 4:41 AM

gobzdxsqp rzup frelbctv txawjve mzdkix vioabgez zntp [URL=http://www.cuveanxr.gopsd.com]arlvwy lqvyuixpa[/URL]

#426. Posted by: bakh dwlnsbm at May 20, 2008 4:42 AM

vnozjtysk gkovdhsbx xmrsbt crgai ieflqp mhkaf jzukgelc [URL]http://www.pmgtucok.xreuy.com[/URL] rmhxtgfq ysplnem

#427. Posted by: whvi qlejivyf at May 20, 2008 4:43 AM