The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Little Prince"

Season 5, Episode 4
Episode Air Date: 02/04/09

Point 1
Kate

Jack

Ben

Sayid

Sun

Aaron
I pity anyone who dares jump into "Lost" in season five. The old flashbacks and flashforwards were tough enough to keep in order, but now we've got characters zipping all along the continuum, bumping into each other and giving birth and speaking French and, damn, there's just no way a newcomer could figure this stuff out.

But newbies aren't our concern ... recappin' is!

I wish Benjamin Linus could have planned my wedding. That buggy little bastard might be evil incarnate, but dammit, he can Get Things Done. Through sheer will (and manipulation, natch), he reassembles 5/6ths of the Oceanic Six -- Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun and Aaron -- by the time credits roll on "The Little Prince." Granted, some of them might soon leave in disgust (Kate) and others are mere seconds from a murderous rampage (Sun), but Ben deserves credit for getting this dysfunctional crew together on short notice. Once all this island nonsense is dealt with, he should turn his attention to a Steve Perry/Journey reunion. All will be forgiven, Benjamin.

A few thoughts and observations on the Oceanic Six developments:

  • This episode's Kate-centric material is like all Kate-centric material: "meh." But the Losties pulled a fast one by tossing Claire's Mum into the mix as the not-so-surprising mystery client seeking custody of Aaron. I rolled my eyes when Mum first appeared ... but minutes later that eye roll was fully reversed (a painful but worthy process) when we learned that Claire's Mum has no idea about Aaron! She's conveniently in LA to pick up a settlement check from Oceanic Air (trace that Oceanic check back to its true source and I bet the breadcrumbs lead to Ben's well-stocked offshore account).

  • So who's the master manipulator pushing Kate's buttons? As we figured/hoped, it's Ben. Turns out the bull-necked lawyer who's trying to exsanguinate Kate and Aaron gets his monthly retainer from Ben. This same lawyer also worked a little legal voodoo to make sure Hurley gets out of jail. Unless something goes awry -- always a possibility, but looking doubtful in this case -- Hurley will soon trade his prison jumpsuit for a bathrobe and rejoin the other Sixies.
  • Sun is still the wild card ... and now she's a wild card with a gun. Someone (Charles Widmore, perhaps?) has supplied Sun with surveillance photos and weaponry. Now it's just a question of which of Ben's major organs will be torn asunder by bullets (or ... how quickly can Ben plant seeds of doubt in Sun's vengeful brain?)
  • Sayid is again attacked by a tranquilizer-wielding henchman, but it's unclear who this attacker works for. I initially thought these dart fiends were Ben's minions, but seeing as Ben and Sayid pal around in a carpet van for the second half of this episode, that doesn't seem likely. So are these Widmore's goons? If so, why are they trying to sedate Sayid, not kill him?
Point 2
Locke

Sawyer

Juliet

Faraday

Miles

Charlotte
Things aren't going well for the islanders. The continuous time jumps are wreaking havoc on nasal cavities (Charlotte, Miles and Juliet, specifically). Danny Faraday theorizes that the longer someone's been on the island, the more susceptible they are to this "deadly jet lag." Interestingly, Miles believes he's only been on the island for a couple weeks, but Faraday questions that assumption. It would appear -- unbeknownst to them, perhaps -- that Charlotte and Miles have some sort of past experience on the island (is Miles the scion of Dr. Pierre Chang?).

Other thoughts and questions from this episode's Island Experience:

  • In this rough economic climate it's nice to see the "Lost" producers keeping costs in check by reusing footage from season one. One of the early jumps places Locke, Sawyer and the rest of the group mere weeks after the crash of Oceanic 815. We see the hatch's beam of light from "Deus Ex Machina" and Sawyer watches as Kate helps deliver Aaron in "Do No Harm." Next week: Juliet watches in horror as the smoke monster pulps Mr. Eko!
  • I think we witnessed our first future jump in this episode. The beach camp reappears, but it's been ransacked and the zodiac boat has been replaced by an outrigger canoe. A bottle of water emblazoned with an Ajira Airways (New Web Site Alert!) logo is the only clue. These future folk are also armed: they attack Locke, Sawyer and the others on the water.
  • Where are Rose and Bernard? I lost track of them.
Point 3
Island And now we come to the kicker ...

The episode's final jump deposits our intrepid time travelers smack dab in a massive storm -- the kind of storm that occurs once ever 16 years ... the kind of storm that causes scientific expeditions to shipwreck on the island.

Yes ... we see Danielle Rousseau before she became Crazy Danielle Rousseau. But that's not the juicy bit.

In the midst of the raging storm, Rousseau (now being played by a younger actress) and her crewmates find an unconscious man floating on a piece of wreckage. They haul him to shore, and that's when we see ...

JIN! JIN LIVES!

Jin survived that massive freighter explosion (he was near the stern when that puppy blew), and now he's been transported back 16 years to those halcyon days before Rousseau's crew is beset by a horrific contagion and Rousseau's baby (she's pregnant at this point) has yet to be stolen by Ben. Good times just around the bend!

Point 4
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "Really bad jetlag doesn't make you hemorrhage, Daniel." -- Juliet Burke going all doctory on Faraday.
  • Second Best Line: "Great, maybe they got a flight out of here to Vegas" -- Sawyer, hoping Ajira Airways services his preferred destination.
  • Rousseau's ship was named Bésixdouze, which translates to "B six twelve." And B612 just happens to be the name of the home asteroid once inhabited by The Little Prince. (Disclosure: I saw a few hints about this "Bésixdouze" business floating around the Interweb ... I'm not nearly smart enough to uncover such literary trickery on my own).
  • Aaron is often relegated to eating, coloring, watching cartoons or sleeping. It'll be a miracle if this kid doesn't grow up with separation anxiety.
  • Sawyer is master of the pre- and post-jump quip. Examples: "Son of a" ... JUMP ... "bitch" and "Thank you lord!" JUMP [into an epic storm] "I take that back!"
  • Administrative note: I'll be traveling for business next week (again), so the review will be handled by finale-slayer extraordinaire, Vacc.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"This Place Is Death" -- A cheery episode, no doubt. Airs Wednesday, Feb. 11, 2009 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

MIF mtncbn is first

#1. Posted by: mtncbn at February 4, 2009 11:31 PM

Meg is First!!

#2. Posted by: LostedIt at February 4, 2009 11:37 PM

re: Jack. He murdered Carole Littleton in her hotel room. She wasn't there for a settlement with Oceanic. Jack just told Kate so they could go quickly. Soaking wet he had none of her blood on him. Too much? Okay, he slipped her some drugs, or popped some of those darts from Sayid in to her. Tranq'd her long enough to get out of town with the crew. She lied about not knowing anything about Aaron - particularly after Widmore recruited her to go after Aaron.

#3. Posted by: DocH at February 4, 2009 11:45 PM

Most of you guys probably know this, but in the season 5 promo video they flash the symbol of Ajira Airways at about the 1:35 mark. The video can be found here..... http://tinyurl.com/56at4l

Ajira Airways might have a larger significance then previously thought.

#4. Posted by: ccook76 at February 4, 2009 11:52 PM

re: Sayid. Hospital dart guy, can still work for Ben. Ben sends him in to FAIL, just seconds before Ben rides in like a 'knight in shining armor' to rescue Sayid. Who knew where Sayid was besides Jack? (A:Ben)

#5. Posted by: DocH at February 4, 2009 11:58 PM

@3 yeah, I definitely think there was more to the hotel scene that meets the eye. It would seem filler/out of place if she truly knows nothing and was just there for a settlement.

#6. Posted by: Bentham at February 5, 2009 12:01 AM

@LostedIt: get back to work!

While Ben's manipulations of Kate and the layered reveal of such were very satisfying, it seems a bit of overkill when the only outcome was to get her to the dock. There wasn't an easier way to do that? Or will he threaten to give info about Aaron to Claire's mom unless Kate goes back to the island? Hmm.

Looks like we may be seeing a Juliet/Sawyer hook-up, and that would be awesome. Sawyer angsting over Kate while she pines for Jack is so last season! Although, major props to Josh Holloway for his reaction to Kate in the jungle. I think I saw his heart beating outside his chest there for a moment.

How many episodes will Faraday now have to wear the shirt with Ginger's nosebleed stains? As I said last week, she's quickly going down the road of most useless, least interesting character. Bring on her backstory quick before she becomes a total redshirt. Literally.

Rousseau obviously had a rough 16 years in the jungle if that was her "before" self. Just a reminder, ladies: always remember to moisturize.

#7. Posted by: Clementine at February 5, 2009 12:01 AM

re: Kate & Aaron. What's going to send her to the streets faster that anything? Fear of losing the boy. Who orchestrated the lawyer ploy? (A:Ben)

re: Sun. What's going to get her off of her corporate backside and into the states to rescue her very good island friend Kate WITH the opportunity to take out the man she blames for her husbands' death? (A:Ben)

I see a pattern here. This is all a corraling maneuver by BEN. Destination - the island.

re: Hugo. He is next. He avoided the first trap with instinct, and unmotivated common sense. Once he gets word the rest are going back... he'll heal better than Vincent.

#8. Posted by: DocH at February 5, 2009 12:07 AM

Because we always suspect the obvious at this point...

Is Sun really gunning for Ben? I think she wants to get back to the island. She won't rest until she sees Jin's body.

Is Miles the baby Chang? I'm more likely to guess Charlotte now, just to be contrary.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JIN LIVES!! JIN LIVES!!

That sounds so much better than "Jughead was the..."
Oh, nevermind.


#9. Posted by: Clementine at February 5, 2009 12:15 AM

@mac

>JIN! JIN LIVES!

>Jin survived that massive freighter explosion (he was near the stern when that puppy blew), and now he's been transported back 16 years

Maybe yes, maybe no. When else have we seen Jin afloat on a piece of wreckage. After the others blew up the raft he was on, right? So maybe THAT Jin, the Frenchies, and the island's little time fluxes have conspired to bring about this meeting. We never did see how Jin made it to the island after the raft was destroyed - our point of view stayed with Sawyer and Michael. Then when they beached, a bound Jin runs out screaming "OTHERS"!

Guess only time will tell if this is Jin1 or Jin2.

And maybe the mysterious disease that Danielle feared catching and killed all her comrades because of was TIME DISPLACEMENT disease.

And maybe Danielle's expedition was not in 1986 as we had supposed but in 2004 or 2005, and then she and the other Frenchies were thrown back to 1986 and she lived from there until the Losties showed up in 2004 and never realized that she had travelled back in time because she never thought to compare dates with the Losties!

#10. Posted by: Cecil at February 5, 2009 12:20 AM

→ 10. ...only time will tell if this is Jin1 or Jin2.
- - - -
this is his first appearance since the DUI punishment ended - I think the question is - Jin1 or Gin1.
- - - -
Good to see Rousseau with an authentic French accent. What she lost to lack of moisturizer, she gained in credible screen presence.

#11. Posted by: DocH at February 5, 2009 12:30 AM

Here's the LOST UNTANGLED video, courtesy of DarkUFO courtesy of ABC.

Warning: I consider it maybe just a little bit SPOILERISH, as it confirms a few things at the end that weren't exactly explicit by the end of tonight's episode. If it's true.

tinyurl.com/d3v4b6

I am easily amused by talking action figues and paper dolls, but I could have done a better voiceover myself.

#12. Posted by: Clementine at February 5, 2009 12:39 AM

Thanks again for the great review and comments, y'all. Here's my top 10 thoughts on Lost tonight:

1) If Ellie is Faraday's mom AND she is Ms. Hawking, then Faraday was the first person to introduce his own mom to the idea of time travel! But won't he learn it from her? Woah!

2) 1954 is before Chang and the drillers, so Richard & Ellie really didn't understand time at all in '54. And yet if Jacob was around in '54... then how old is that donkey wheel?

3) The Frosties on their way to the Orchid means Faraday is on his way to see Dr Chang and those five half-drilled holes - which means we might not have to wait all season to see that part again. Also, I can think of other examples where, so far, we're getting quick turnarounds on new questions this season. And I like it!

4) I think Sayid knows Ben sent that last dart shooter to the hospital. Sayid just figures he'll have to fight off fewer guys if he drives Ben around long enough to find out what's really up.

5) It was nice to see Kate resist her own "fight or flight" impulse by going to the lawyer. Also, Jack changed his argument for talking to Claire's mom from "I can fix this" to "Aaron's my family, too." Very nice.

6) I'm convinced now the island itself got "moved" through time, as well as space. The O6 in the chopper saw it "seem to disappear" like the rabbits in the Orchid film. (People who comment on this blog are slick, man, slick.)

7) Why did the Island bring the Losties here? So John could save the island by moving the island? Why? So the Frosties could travel through time and save the island many times over. Faraday told them how to contain Jughead is one example. I'm sure we'll see others.

8) On the other hand, who the heck did Juliet shoot? Hopefully not someone we know and love...

9) If John Locke is just medusa spider'ed then maybe so was Christian Shepherd when 815 left Sidney. How, why and with whose help - IDK.

10) Sorry, Cecil. The compass didn't just FOOM into and out of existence. That's simply against the rules. ;)

Gotta go now... FOOM!

#13. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 1:06 AM

Oh yeah (#11) - did we learn tonight that Aaron was born the same night Boone died? And is that significant? Or is that inaccurate? I thought Kate was with Jack at the caves when Boone bled out. Does anyone remember?

Either way, does anyone else think Aaron is "the little prince"? Aside from those numbers on the raft, his birth scene is my best guess for the titular tie-in.

FOOM!

#14. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 1:11 AM

This is my first post this season, thanks again for all your great reviews Mac! Long or short your Lost reviews are the best on the web.

Anyone else take issue with Locke's statement that "this is all happening because they left" and that he needs to get off the island to bring them back? The island jumping through time was not a result of the "Six" leaving the island, it was because of Ben turning the donkey wheel. Why would bringing the "Six" back make the island stop jumping around in time?

Or did I misunderstand what Locke meant?

#15. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at February 5, 2009 1:16 AM

JIN LIVES!!!

Thank God for that. Charlie was one thing, but Jin....I never would have forgave them.

JIN LIVES!!!

#16. Posted by: Somnambulist at February 5, 2009 1:17 AM

Lots of Red Pain this week from Charlotte (I agree, she is boring and useless so far), Miles (on the island before huh? hmmm...) and Juliette.

@4: Ajira is twice in that vid. Also at 2:25.

@10: I was also thinking that the disease the French died of might have been the time travel symptoms. But, unless your scenario is right, the French wouldn't have time travelled, would they?... Wasn't it mentioned that Widmore had been looking for the island for 20 years? Could it be that Widmore moves the island in 1986, gets transported off the island himself and gives all the French the Red Pain? But why not Rousseau? She surely has been there as long as the other French scientists?


If Faraday's 'length of exposure' conjecture is true, could it be that if you're on the island for an even longer time you don't jump at all? That's why the other's didn't jump?

Did anyone else think "Oceanic 6" during the future flash? Ajira 'flies anywhere'?! To the island as well? And for how many people was that boat... six, wasn't it? The O6+Ben-Aaron?

Claire's mother: At first I thought "this show has me so screwed up that I didn't consider the most logical option for who sent the lawyers after Kate: Aaron's grandmother". And then it turned out she wasn't the one. So we should think screwed up in this show. :) But, as others have said, there was definitely more to Jack's meeting with her than was shown. I don't think he killed her (come on, he's a doctor), why would he do that. He's not that desperate to see that as there last and only chance of keeping Aaron, even if she would know about her grandson. But might Claire have visited her mother and told her something? Or can she do that apparition thing only to people who were on the Island.

Now I think about it (by which I mean, now I wildly speculate about it), we have a mother who recently arrived in LA... Claire's mother wouldn't be Daniel's as well, right? (no... that's too far fetched...)

What o what happened between Ben and Sayid...

Mac, thanks for mentioned Rose and Bernard. I was wondering about them too. Last time we saw them was running from the flaming arrow attack, right? They must have run to a very uneventful part of the Island, or at least one without cameras.

More thoughts will probably come during the week. :) I'll keep it at this for now. Great episode again!

#17. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 5, 2009 1:25 AM

Jin Lives!!!!

Finally! Something came true! Hazzah!

Quick thoughts - This episode all but confirmed that those instances of whispering will turn out to be time travelers. It just seems so plausible!

Back to Jin - I would assume that he has been time traveling along with Locke and co. - he's just been floating in the water during that time. I wonder if he will run into Locke before he goes all Jeremy Bantham and leaves the isle?

Yeah - Locke is not dead - when they all reunite to return to the isle, he may be the one who will pass this info on to Sun....

#18. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 1:53 AM

Did anyone other than me have the initial impression that the gunshots, when they first started raining down on the out-rigger canoe, were coming from Tom Friendly and his band of pirates on the little tugboat they used to raid the raft and kidnap Walt?

#19. Posted by: TanziTwo at February 5, 2009 2:16 AM

@13 Bill proposed:

>10) Sorry, Cecil. The compass didn't just FOOM into and out of existence. That's simply against the rules. ;)

And your basis for thinking so is?

What rule would that be violating?

#20. Posted by: Cecil at February 5, 2009 2:21 AM

Everyone is so psyched about Miles being Chang's child...but I thought we decided the baby looked caucasion and was Charlotte? Maybe not...or maybe Chang has two children. Or maybe Miles just didn't look as Asian as all the Asian babies I see everyday do.

I think Ben orchestrated the thing with Sun as well...somehow...and the previews from next week suggest that Locke gave Ben VALUABLE information to get Sun back...but why didn't "Bentham" tell her himself?

I was also worried that Juliet shot someone important...Perhaps that was a future flash and those canoes belong to our very own O6.

Jin is going to be very, very confused.

I don't think Ben is going with them. I thought he wasn't allowed?

I have a hard time believing Sun will go back without Ji Yeon...so I predict she calls Grandma and tells her to get her ass to LA NOW!!! lol

I think Christine has a very good point. The island is f'd up b/c Ben moved it...not b/c they left...as far as Ben knew they hadn't left or maybe had blown up when he moved the island.

As for those that think there was more to Mum from down under being there...I think Ben probably orchestrated for her to be there on that exact date and probably also somehow for Kate to follow the lawyer and see her.

Bill...Jack sent Kate to handle Claire b/c he was trying to save Boone by amputating his leg or whatever that was about...he couldn't deliver the baby...so they weren't together...

#21. Posted by: Shana Roberson at February 5, 2009 2:49 AM

22nd!

#22. Posted by: t-code-j at February 5, 2009 3:02 AM

Posting things as I notice them during my 2nd viewing...
1) The surveillance package delivered to Sun was intriguing. In Hi-Def, I was able to read much of the text - other than the photos, nothing appeared to relate to Ben or Jack. I'm sure someone with more time on their hands will transcribe it.

2) As Hurley is talking to Jack from the County Jail, I swear I saw imaginary friend Dave being led in by a guard..

3) it appears that Jin is time tripping along with the rest, but probably hasn't figured it out from his vantage point at sea - until meeting Rousseau.

3) @cecil #10 : And maybe Danielle's expedition was not in 1986 as we had supposed but in 2004 or 2005

Interesting idea Cecil, except I don't think the Frenchies are experiencing time travel like the Losties. But along that line of thought, depending on the bearing of Rousseau's ship as it approached the Island, the expedition could've originated from any point in time - even the future.

#23. Posted by: vacc at February 5, 2009 3:11 AM

I don't think it's coincidence - or even a narrative device - that Locke happened to see the Nigerian plane crash or that Jin washed up at the same time the French arrived on the Island. I believe it's likely that the time shifts are opening brief rifts into the Island (which would otherwise be hidden even from God). These rifts are like open windows that enable outsiders to stumble upon the Island. Yemi's plane, Rousseau's vessel for certain.. probably the Black Rock, and maybe even Desmond's sailboat.

#24. Posted by: vacc at February 5, 2009 3:22 AM

Just quick little things:
1. Josh Holloway actually had me in tears when "Sawyer" saw Kate in the jungle. I was actually crying.
2. SOOOOO happy to see Jin (seemingly) alive!
3. I have realized that at least once in every episode I want to smack Jack. I miss crazy bearded Jack, he was more fun. Just my opinion.

#25. Posted by: rachel at February 5, 2009 3:41 AM

@21 - I agree, Claire's mom's presence was part of a sophisticated ploy by Ben to convince Kate to trust jack and join the return team. Ben's lawyer managed to scare kate, convince her the threat to Aaron was real, get Claire's mom some dough, and free Hugo, all in one day. That's a good lawyer. Actually, having kate's address in the dart guy's wallet played into that, too, so maybe he was a Ben guy -- showing Ben is ruthless, even if his ultlimate goals are good.
@24- good point about the conicidental "entrances" to the island. Yeah, Jin is going to be confused. Sun, intrigued. Her hope Jin is alive will trump her desire for revenge. Kate . . . well she and Aaron are there, but now the "threat" to him is admittedly a lie, so she may tougher to convince. Whether she loves sawyer or the old jack, though, she needs to go back . . . still wide open to me as to jack kate / sawyer juliette or the other way.
And @1, @2 (all who race to be "MIF") - mildly entertaining, the first 85 times . . . now, not so much, IMHO. Reminds me of a drunk who keeps repeating himself. Any thoughts about the actual show?

#26. Posted by: JT at February 5, 2009 4:01 AM

Didn't read the recap yet.
Don't know if anyone said this yet.

I think Ben's doing this whole thing so that Jack gets custody of Aaron and they won't have to argue with Kate to bring turnip head back to the island.

#27. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 7:44 AM

Then maybe Kate will follow along so that she'll be with Aaron.

#28. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 7:47 AM

Question - How does Lock know that Jin didn't get off the island? He said the names of the Oceanic Six to Sawyer but didn't include Jin's name, right? How would he know Jin didn't make the chopper?

#29. Posted by: Fuber at February 5, 2009 8:18 AM

#27-
"Didn't read the recap yet.
Don't know if anyone said this yet."

Oh no . . those dangerous words! . . AND spoken by a regular. I'm glad I'm out of town for the next 4 days . . . because we all know the next line, don't we?

"Anybody notice that the little prince dumped a bomb named jughead in his diaper?"

Looking forward to a BIG READ on Sunday evening. Have a good time.

#30. Posted by: davidrh at February 5, 2009 8:20 AM

even if Claire's mom knows that Aaron is her grandson, there is no reason for Jack to kill her or tranquilize her. She knows a bulldog attorney will block Kate leaving the country with Aaron and Jack knows they are leaving in just a matter of hours. So if Claire's mom said, "I will fight you and I will win my granchild" Jack would say, "I'll see you in court for the fight of your life." Then Jack would tell Kate and off they go to the island.

I like the idea of Jin being foomed during the aftermath of the Snatching of Walt (SOW). And I like the idea of the tug boat Others being ones shooting at the outrigger.

Will Ben return to the island or just send the 06 on their way? Last season he said he wouldn't be able to return after he turned the FDW, didn't he?

Rousseau told us her crew members were "crazy" and that is why she killed them. She didn't mention them all bleeding. I think she would have mentioned it as a caution to the Lostee's...Beware of bloody nozez,zhat is ze beginning of ze madness. I am still mourning our loss of mature Rousseau.She didn't boink anyone on the island and she didn't get busted for DUI,,,it was a senseless death.

I have always thought Aaron is The Little Prince. He and Vincent...there's more to them than meets the eye.

that's all I got for now.

#31. Posted by: undaunted at February 5, 2009 8:28 AM

Somebody help me out here...my memory doesn't work as good as it used to. I think.

Did Jin/Gin meet/know Crazy Danielle Rousseau? And I figger he must've foomed back about sixteen or seventeen years cuz CDR is preggers with - we can only assume - Alex. And how long can it be before her entire French crew finds somebody that they can surrender to?

Who's outriggers were those?

Believe me or not but I absolutely knew that black dude who came in to Sayid's room was up to no good. And I knew that Sayid knew. That ol' boy is one a-kickin' mofo. Looking forward to seeing him and Ben mix it up. That day is coming.

Loved Hurley's orange jumpsuit. Where they make those? Ringling Brothers?

#32. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 8:45 AM

I would still want to know why Daniel Faraday cried when he was watching the news about the plane being found on the ocean's ground (Season 4). I always thought it was because of compassion, but now I'm not that sure anymore. And I would also like to know who the woman with him was, the one that asks him: "Why are you so upset?".
Also, do you remember this: way back a (supposedly) page of a Lost script made its way to the Internet. First it was thought to be the relevation of a true spoiler (what a scoop!), then it was identified as a "foiler". But as of today I'm asking myself if it wasn't really a true spoiler after all - only for later (current or the final season maybe?). So what did this script page tell?
SPOILER (or maybe speculation, if the script page wasn't real or was real and then maybe never used) ALERT:

+++++


Jack runs across the island and crosses the way of another man - he gasps with disbelief when he realises that he run just - into himself. Two Jacks in the same place at the same time!
Could it be real? What would that mean?
+++++

#33. Posted by: Naike at February 5, 2009 8:47 AM

EJIRA airways did the O6 use that airline to get back to the island in some way? and is that their outrigger canoe?

#34. Posted by: Art at February 5, 2009 8:48 AM

@ 20 - Can't tell ya, Cecil. It's against the rules. ;)

@ 21 - Thanks, Shana. I remember that now.

@ 23/24 - Vacc, your rift theory is positively brilliant! It also proves the island is moving around through space as well as time. I wonder if Mrs. Hawking's tracking points on her chalkboard correspond to the location of those rifts, also. (But - minor point - don't forget we date the french expedition by Alex's birth as well as Sayid's calculation on the broadcast loop.)

The randomness of time travel is now confirmed. Last season people & objects going through the 'protective bubble' were bounced ahead or behind inconsistently. Now inconsistency is consistent. :) This could also help explain why Tom could get to and from the island so quickly when he went to New York, if he was lucky enough to "fall back" upon reentry, rather than to "spring forward".

#35. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 8:49 AM

More character development: Sawyer actually said, "It doesn't matter what I want." And Locke actively questioned a past event that he previously believed made him "special".

I love Lost! :)

#36. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 8:51 AM

Why didn't Claire's mom just get a check sent to her? Or put in her bank account? Or any other easier way of collecting money than flying from Australia to Los Angeles to pick up a piece of paper? And why didn't she stay in a better hotel than the Red Roof if she was expecting to get a large amount of money? She did just spend $1000 to fly there!

@Clementine: Charlotte or Shannon: who is more worthless? Discuss.

@JT/26: Jughead was the bomb. Welcome to the blog.

Crazy theory of the week: Miles IS Dr. Chang. That's why his nose is bleeding, he has been on the island for a long time (as Faraday asks).

#37. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 8:58 AM

Sorry davidrh, again. Haha.

So Ajira is going to have some significance...

I bet everyone else had the same thought process but when I saw that they were french I was trying to see if the girl was pregnant because that would mean one thing... it's Rosseau!!!

Jin!!!!!

#38. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 8:58 AM

Dameon, Carlton, and J.J are GENIUSes. But that's evident.

#39. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 8:59 AM

OK - last one this morning!

If Ms. Hawking was so confident that the universe course corrects, why did she seem so upset about Desmond's s*****g ring? If Hawking=Ellie, then Hawking, as an Other, did a mind-screw on Desmond!!! Oh, how rich.

It also suggests Hawking has been postponing this upcoming catastrophe for quite a long time (like Desmond kept postponing Charlie's death).

But what does it mean about pushing that button?

#40. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 8:59 AM

"I don't know, the other others?"

Let me first point out that I cannot confirm nor deny the fact that the boat on island was mine. Moving on...

I am very glad Jin is not dead, although I never doubted he was. He is far too important to kill off in some explosion where we do not even see him die.

I was mildly disappointed in the fact that Sayid and Ben had no discussions on the man in the hospital. I am now starting to believe that Ben is sending at least some of them (the one's at the "safe" house, the person in front of Hurley's asylum, and the person at the hospital) to push everyone together. I am sure Ben knew Sayid would get the address and show Jack, forcing him to run go to Kate.

I have mad respect this season for Josh Holloway. Between his lines in the opener "Because everyone I cared about blew up on your boat. Don't you tell me what I can't change." and last night, he is showing some acting chops. Well...more than just his uncanny ability to be a smartass.

I can't wait for next week!

#41. Posted by: The Other Other at February 5, 2009 8:59 AM

Did I mention that I LOVE Benjamin Linus????? <333333333333

#42. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 9:00 AM

Oh, and did I mention that I hate Jack?

#43. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 9:03 AM

Speaking of hating Jack... I posted this last night on last week's episode... so I'll just do it again.
___________

So tonight's episode was AMAZING. But I never posted the comment I wanted to like three days ago, so here I go now.

@ Jiggy - 206
"Maybe RA is Jacob (ie Locke = Bentham). Ra can't have direct contact with himself, so he needs a "leader" to speak with Jacob/future RA."

I actually really like this theory. Seems very possible. It would also make everything else make a lot more sense.

@ meg - 280
"oh, and miss i heart benlinusXX....I am giving him to you because my love has now gone elsewhere. I will miss our arguments over which part of mr. bugeye we will keep....but alas, I am bowing out. Treat him well."

Well congratulations on giving your love to someone else! I guess it was the better for both of us. Now I can have Ben all to myself, but yes, I will also miss our arguments over him. He has such beautiful eyes... and now they are all mine! Woot woot! =]

@ boozy - 294
"Never noticed Jack's heavy breathing. Sounds like someone is a bit anal..."

I don't understand how you choose to add in your little random remarks. I won't lie, they're somewhat entertaining... but still.

Sometimes it's not just "heavy breathing", it's just the way he breathes that I hate. I don't know how to explain it, but it's very annoying.

@ ealgumby - 299
I agree, it seems like you do have a lot of time on your hands. But I love it because everything you write is very insightful. Nice thought process I guess.

@ lost2theworld - 318
"I must say that after a lot of consideration I am throwing my hat in the ring with you. I rewatched Ben's introduction to the show in season 2 and...he is the best character ever. Although Sawyer deserves his due credit in the eye candy/one-liner department, Ben's character is just evilly delicious."

He is amazingly awesome and fantabulous! BUT he's all mine now, so back off. =]

... I appreciate the thought though. Glad you respect him!

@ LostedIt - 329
"ilovebenjaminlinusxx, it's ok, Jack's just an character, performed by an actor, breathe, oh no wait actually forget the breathing part, count to 10, look away from the screen, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

...Haha. Nice one.

Just to clear up things, it's Matthew Fox AND Jack Shephard that I strongly dislike.
1. Matthew Fox's breathing
2. Jack's character
3. Jack's annoying head nodds when he thinks he's right or saying "everything is going to be okay"
4. When Jack says, "I can fix it" or, "it's my responsibilty", or "I did this"
5. When Jack thinks everyone loves him
6. When Jack does that creepy stare thing

... and much more but I don't feel like thinking about it right now because all of these things make me very mad.

@ BunnyLover - 335
"I lost 30 lbs of stomach fat in 8 weeks by obeying this 1 rule."

Yeah that thing is mad annoying. I didn't even know it was possible to have 30 lbs of belly fat.

@ ealgumby - 341
=[ --> =]
or
=( --> =)
or
:( --> :)
or
:[ --> :]

... I couldn't decide which ones I liked best. =]
___________

Goodbye.

#44. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 9:05 AM

Please move on to block 2 at the bell.

#45. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 9:06 AM

It's safe to say that Miles and Charlotte spent time in the past. Three people had nose bleeds this episode. Juilet, Miles and Charlotte. If Faraday is correct about his theory that the length of time (exposure) on the island in some way causes the headaches, nose bleeds, etc then it's safe to say that they all have spent time on the island, possibly as kids.

Another interesting tidbit is the fact that Charlotte didnt remember Faraday's name when she came to. She also spent most of the episode really distant and didnt interact with faraday or any of the other characters. At one point while they are walking through the jungle, Daniel asks her if she's ok and she basically tells him to f""" off. Could she have lost her memory?

Overall a very solid episode. Nice to see that Jin is alive!!

#46. Posted by: Michaelmvp at February 5, 2009 9:10 AM

@7 Clementine/25 Rachel - Josh Holloway

First of all...I whole-heartedly agree. Josh Holloway's expression when he saw Kate and after the time jump was one that I don't believe we have ever seen from Sawyer! I could feel his pain right through my television.

@ Mac - Lost "newbies"...

My husband is one of those "newbies", but not sure how long he will hang on. I have not convinced him to start with the Season 1 dvd's to start catching up. One thing about a "newbie"...they are watching from a different perspective and he made several comments last night that made me think. I can't recall them now, but I will have jot them down if he continues with his "outsider" take on events during the show.

Yes...Jin is really confused!! We all know that he has an amazing grasp of the English language and that when the Losties eventually explain all this to him, he will fully understand. Interesting comments regarding if he is Jin1 or Jin2. When he answered Danielle & Co about what happened to him, I assumed he meant the freighter when he said something about a boat. Well, when Walt was taken, that was also a boat that exploded. Hmm...

Although questions are somewhat being answered so far this season, I still find it to be amazing that they will be able to answer all and wrap all this up in less than 1 1/2 seasons left.

Again...they showed us Jack's phone number on Kate's cell. 323-555-0156 I think we all noticed:

3+2+3 = 8
5+5+5 = 15

Flight 815

Now this next part is reaching (not sure for what), so humor me please...

01 = Jan
56 = 1956

In "Jughead", Locke told Richard to go see him when he was born...May 30, 1956... Wasn't he born early...a result of his mom being hit by the car...? I can't remember how early he was...anyone...maybe locke was conceived in Jan of 1956...? Again, not sure if this means anything, but if they keep throwing Jack's phone number at me...I'm going to make something of it...

I'm re-watching the episode...will be back...

#47. Posted by: boodle at February 5, 2009 9:12 AM

is it possible that the footsteps and whispers the losties always hear in the forest (especially in season 1)just their future selves?

#48. Posted by: schiano at February 5, 2009 9:13 AM

O&BTW...Bésixdouze is French for Jughead. I'm sure of it.

When Jack went to the hotel and the door opened and I saw the blond head, my first thought was that it was Penny in the room. How funky would that've been?

#49. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 9:14 AM

→ 10. ...only time will tell if this is Jin1 or Jin2.

This Jin can speak English so it has to be the Jin from the freighter, right?

→ 21. ...I was also worried that Juliet shot someone important...Perhaps that was a future flash and those canoes belong to our very own O6.

I don't think this would make sense. Why would our O6 shoot at the ones they are trying to save? Especially if Sun is with them and believes Jin is alive and with those left behind.


→ 18. ...This episode all but confirmed that those instances of whispering will turn out to be time travelers. It just seems so plausible!

I suggested this after the season premiere and no one commented on it. I think this concept explains the voices perfectly. They are just a "whisper" of all those who have "jumped" to that moment. The whispers are hard to understand because you can't interfere with the past? Maybe; interesting to ponder at the very least.

Sawyer and Ben are hands down the best two characters. They don't whine, they just are who they are - with no apologies.

#50. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 5, 2009 9:17 AM

Well...JWTB!! I started writing a post and there were 28 posts. I finished and there were 50. You guys are fast!

#51. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 5, 2009 9:20 AM

I don't think Jin spoke English that well after the first incident. I would think that he wouldn't have that kind of conversation with Danielle unless his appearance is after the freighter exploded. If I remember, Jin didn't start speaking English until S03.

#52. Posted by: Steve at February 5, 2009 9:20 AM

@33/Naike: Maybe Faraday was crying at the loss of Oceanic 815 because he thought he had changed events enough to keep the plane from crashing. He was in the tunnel with Dr. Chang in the 1970's. Maybe he is aware of general events on the island (from his notebook)and is trying to make changes (like meeting Desmond in the Hatch). He never does answer the question he is continually asked 'Do you know what is happening?'

#53. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 9:31 AM

When you think they can't through another wrench into the mix who should show up but Danielle. I thought that was a great addition to last night.

I was hoping there'd be more from Charlotte but so far I'm agree that she's not very compelling.

Help me out here. When Locke and crew beach it in the storm they found wrekage on the beach. Was that suppose to be the leftovers from Danielle's landing on the island?

We'll miss you Mac!

#54. Posted by: dk at February 5, 2009 9:34 AM

During the episode, they previewed a new show that will premiere in Apri..."The Unusuals". Harold Perrineau is on the show. Once again...will they pull a return of Michael when no one is looking...?

@52 Steve

Good point...forgot about that. Should be the freighter that he came from. Even though he jumed time, it could not have been too much actual time that Jin has been floating at sea. How long can one survive without any water...?

#55. Posted by: boodle at February 5, 2009 9:43 AM

I've been wondering for the last couple of shows, where do they get these automatic (repeating) dart guns? Is there really such a thing? I don't think so.

#56. Posted by: mtncbn at February 5, 2009 9:57 AM

@32 RansomJackson: Danielle and Jin would have at least met when they set up the ambush of the Others on the beach. After 3 months everyone on the beach would have heard gossip of the crazy French lady and at least have a basic knowledge of Danielle. That's why everyone would run to see the gang when they return from their island adventures to find out what was happening and then we would see everyone huddled around tonight's storyteller in the next scene.

#57. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 9:58 AM

Re. 57 - Thanks PoA. I was trying to remember how much interaction they might've had and how much English Jin 'n' Tonic was speaking at the time.

Still tho...JnT is unaware of the time-skipping. In his mind, there must be two wacky French chicks with the same name.

#58. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 10:05 AM

I thought this episode was great, and I have nothing profound to add, but 1 comment...

I spit a bit of coffee on my desk as I read "Once all this island nonsense is dealt with, he should turn his attention to a Steve Perry/Journey reunion. All will be forgiven, Benjamin." OMG - still laughing, glad I am not the only one who said 'who is that?? and where is Steve Perry??' Thanks Mac!

#59. Posted by: LostinVT at February 5, 2009 10:13 AM

46610 Besixdouze (1993 TQ1) is an asteroid belonging to the asteroid belt. It was discovered by Kin Endate and Kazuo Watanabe on October 15, 1993.

The name of the asteroid is a reference to The Little Prince, who lived on an asteroid named B612. The name Bésixdouze is the concatenation of B, six and douze, French for "B six twelve". Also, 46610 is the decimal equivalent of the hexadecimal number B612.

#60. Posted by: Grapekat at February 5, 2009 10:29 AM

Riddle me this. If Jin and Rousseau met in the past then why wouldn't they have remembered each other when they met again in the future? Wasn't Rousseau on the Black Rock? Can't remember now, maybe the Black Rock was an older ship.

#61. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at February 5, 2009 10:36 AM

@61: The Black Rock is a pirate ship from the 1800s. Rousseau said she landed on the island in the 1980s.

Jin doesn't recognize her because he hasn't met her yet (in 2004). Danielle might/should have recognized Jin's name but it was 16 years later and if Jin blips out in a few minutes then it seems unlikely she would remember his name. I know I couldn't remember the name of a guy I met once for 2 minutes that long ago.

#62. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 10:56 AM

@62 - PoA - I might agree with you, but I gotta believe I'd remember somebody who I rescued at sea who then disappeared in a blinding flash of light and a loud metallic foom-y noise. Unless the BFoL & LMFN stole my memory as well. Or the lack of moisturizing did it.

Wikipedia has a nice bit on The Little Prince (http://en*wikipedia*org/wiki/The_Little_Prince - replace the *'s with .'s), and even makes reference to LOST.

Apparently, there are six main characters (odd little coincidence that) called:

The King who can "control" the stars by ordering them to do what they would anyway.

The Conceited Man who wants to be admired by everyone, but lives alone.

The Drunkard/Tippler who drinks to forget that he is ashamed of drinking.

The Businessman who is constantly busy counting the stars he thinks he owns.

The Lamplighter who was charged with the task of lighting the lamp at night and extinguishing it in the morning.

The Geographer who spends all of his time making maps, but never leaves his desk to explore.

Not sure how this relates to the O6, but there ya go.

Anybody notice the picture of Jughead behind Michael in The Unusuals?

#63. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 11:07 AM

My question is, how did Jin get to/stay with the island after it vanished?

We know that Daniel and Co. in the Zodiac were "within the radius" of the island at the time of the flash and that's why they stayed with the island. Jack and Co. in the helicopter, apparently, were not "within the radius" and watched the island as it vanished; they did not travel with the island. Jin was on the freighter when it exploded, miles from the island; he had to have been further away from the island than the helicopter when the island vanished. Or, maybe Jin had some kind of tricked-out speed door that got him back "within the radius" before the island vanished. Or, maybe the magic door stayed on the heading to the island and that's how he got there. How did Jin get to the island?

#64. Posted by: Chunky at February 5, 2009 11:12 AM

I thought last night's episode was one of the worst of the series: it was ill conceived, contained gross factual errors, major inconsistencies in its own storyline mythology, and poorly executed.

1. After last year's forum beat down on the totally false legal subplots (Kate's trial),TPTB continue to fail to grasp even the basic elements of the law in the real world (which is a huge flaw for an alleged well-written show).

A. You don't have "secret clients" who file paternity lawsuits getting signed "court orders" for drawing blood tests without first serving the defendants with a complaint and summons. Further, to get such an order, the plaintiff would have to show some factual basis to contest paternity, at a contested hearing, before any order would enter.
B. Attorneys do not run around town to hotel rooms to give settlement checks to clients. Claire's mother in LA for a settlement is not realistic; the funds would have been wired to her. However, the key jurisdiction error would have been that Claire's mother would have more likely sued the airline in Australia.
C. The prospect of getting Hurley out of jail in a day is ridiculous. First, he was arrested for murder. He admitted to killing people while he was given his constitutional rights by the police. The witnesses at the safehouse, the photograph, the arresting officers' testimony and Hurley's own incriminating statements, is sufficient to detain him for up to 72 hours before formal charges are filed against him. (That blows past Mrs. Hawkings 70 hour window). Second, no judge would summarily dismiss multiple murder charges at a preliminary hearing. Third, it would also be highly unlikely that any judge would even give Hurley bail because he is a flight risk, a danger to himself and others (mental history) and based upon the seriousness of the charges.

2. The whole Claire's mother in LA events is contraindicated from the past storyline. Claire's mother was in a irreversable coma after an auto accident; she was only kept alive because of Claire's guilt and Shepard's money. Claire's aunt always wanted to pull the plug, and when Claire and Shepard died, and those obstacles were removed, Claire's mother's care would have ceased and she would have passed on.

3. The whole concept that Ben has unlimited resources and a whole ninja army of assassins to round up the O6 crew, but needs the O6 to return to the island to reclaim it is wearing wafer thin. He could have saved time and bleeding manpower by using his existing army, rented a freighter like Widmore did, and steamed to the island for the sequel, Keamy II:First Blood. Instead, we get a MadMadMadWorld run around LA to get everyone to boat slip 23, where we can presume that Ben has the S.S. Minnow waiting for departure. And when Kate confronts Ben about running her through the emotional ringer, all he can say is "you got me?" Weak response.

4. The time travel, island skip, temporal displacement, bleeding nose story line has completely broken down into mush. For two weeks we have been told that temporal displacement (the Minkowski nose bleed-seizure-death) is a symptom of time travel. Faraday used radiation on his lab rat to send its brain into time travel mode. We were also told that you need a "constant" in both time periods (present and your time jump) to avoid the Minkowski effect. In 1954 jump, Faraday himself should have been fountain bleeding from his ears since in 1954, Desmond, his "constant" was not even born. Besides, aren't your fellow survivors your "constants" when your group zoomed in and out of time? They have a stronger "connection" between themselves than Desmond-Faraday's one day meeting at Oxford. The show has written itself into a corner where it cannot explain why different people are symptomatic at different times while others are unaffected by time travel. . . unless, of course, none of the events are actually time travel.

5. The camp disappears but the people do not. The camp re-appears, but the people are gone. But new outriggers who have automatic weapons have landed on the island? If the "event window" has not occurred yet, how can people jump on board an island moving through both time and space? The conflicting concepts of who skips, who does not skip, what does not skip, possessions missing and reappearing is like a con man taking bets while moving three empty shells across a table: there is only an illusion of truth and fraud in its execution.

6. The re-appearance of Jin was probably the worst violation of the past storyline principles. When the freighter blew up, the helicopter turned to head toward the island because the fuel tank was ruptured and they had to land; the helicopter crashed outside the "island radius" when the island disappeared. Logically, the freighter was farther away from the island (its smoke plum was immediately gone after the first jump) so even if Jin survived the blast, he was not within the island radius to actually appear in a time flash with the Rousseau crew. He would have been in the same outside world as the O6 and Ben, who is having his own extreme difficulty finding the island. So under the perameters set down by the story itself, Jin was not in the physical space to be part of the first island jump to show up off shore in last night's episode.

Finally, it has been debated whether the pop-up commentary is canon or bad writing by the ABC PR department, but the repeat did claim the following: Richard is the "advisor" to the island "ruler" Jacob. And in the 1954 U.S. Army camp sequence, it was stated that the person wearing Jones uniform was "a younger version of Widmore." Version? That implies a duplicate person, body, soul, spirit, ect. Coupled with the Egyptian concepts, Richard's appearance, the idea of body doubles when a person dies, that rulers were found at a young age, that priests were key advisors to the pharoahs, an argument can be made that the island is an mystic afterlife temple. And the Little Prince is actually Ben, who believes he is the rightful heir to the ruler.

#65. Posted by: welh at February 5, 2009 11:16 AM

Besixdouze (1993 TQ1) is an asteroid belonging to the asteroid belt. It was discovered by Kin Endate and Kazuo Watanabe on October 15, 1993.

8/15/93 - Flight 815

Anyway, is Ben's lawyer going to "cook" documents that will say that Hurley couldn't have killed that guy because the time of death was while Hurley was still in the hospital?
Sayid really killed him, right? So the lawyer has a lot of influence too I guess.

Anyone one think "The Unusuals" was a plant, and not a real show? Wasn't this done in an episode of S4?

#66. Posted by: Rudy at February 5, 2009 11:17 AM

→ 64. ...My question is, how did Jin get to/stay with the island after it vanished?

Jin must have been blasted from the boat to within the radius before the island vanished. I think it is a great concept. He's just been floating unconcious during all of the jumping! I love it.

→ 44. ...He is amazingly awesome and fantabulous! BUT he's all mine now, so back off. =]

... I appreciate the thought though. Glad you respect him!

I will covet him from afar. Your long held devotion has earned my respect. ;-)

#67. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 5, 2009 11:21 AM

It seems possible that Charlotte still doesn't have her memory back. She could be playing along until she figures out why she doesn't know anyone. I think she's smart enough to realize she should know Faraday based on his reaction to her when she woke. I'll have to rewatch, but didn't Faraday say his name before she seemed to recognize him? Her consciousness could have jumped (a la Desmond) and maybe she's now a pre-freighter version of herself.
Also, Charlotte could be the reason Faraday cried at the 815 wreckage. Maybe she dies & he's crying at a memory of her loss.

#68. Posted by: Hotpocket23 at February 5, 2009 11:22 AM

I don't think Danielle would remember Jin the way RA didn't remember Locke...but of course Locke remembers RA...just as it appears Jin remembers Danielle.

@ 29...Excellent question! How does he know any of them are alive...and how does he know who made it from the boat?

Yes, Charlotte was barely useful last season and has been demoted to red shirt status this week...does her script only read, "Open eyes toward light?"

I am not sure why people think Jin would be traveling from a different point in time than the others...unless you thought he was the walking dead like Claire? And no I don't think the French have anything to do with time travel...

I predict just as Jin starts to figure things out...FOOM!

#69. Posted by: Shana Roberson at February 5, 2009 11:25 AM

Sorry, two more things:

Is Daniel Charlotte's constant and now she'll be ok?

Penny is Desmond's constant, Desmond is Daniels's constant, Daniel is Charlotte's constant........?

Also, interesting that Sun has turned into the type of person Jin was pre crash. I don't like her this way, too evil.

#70. Posted by: Rudy at February 5, 2009 11:26 AM

→ 65. ...I thought last night's episode was one of the worst of the series: it was ill conceived, contained gross factual errors, major inconsistencies in its own storyline mythology, and poorly executed.

Wow, wehl! Was that post like cheap therapy, or what? Now breathe deeeply, but not too deeply or iloveben will get all bothered. There may be crazy inconsistencies but I don't care. I love it. It is entertainment that keeps me guessing.

#71. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 5, 2009 11:33 AM

@66: the unusuals is a real show... no way related to lost

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1240976/

#72. Posted by: schiano at February 5, 2009 11:40 AM

Alrighty. Not a great episode, but there were some necessary plot points made.

I like snotty Charlotte a lot more than bloody Charlotte.

I'm certain that Juliet shot(killed?) someone key from the outrigger. I really thought the outrigger belonged to the O6 but I don't believe they were the ones following them and shooting at them.

Aaron is the most inert 3yo I've ever seen. I have one and there's no way he'd been eating cereal peacefully, staying with a stranger peacefully, well, doing anything peacefully. They are little tornadoes. Just sayin'.

#73. Posted by: EthansGirl at February 5, 2009 12:00 PM

@10 Cecil

Jin #1 wouldn't speak English.... So it must be Jin #2

#74. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at February 5, 2009 12:02 PM

@70/Rudy: Daniel is not Charlotte's constant because her nose would not be bleeding. Desmond's nose bleeds stopped when he reconnected with Penny and like wise with Faraday.

#75. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 12:17 PM

havent read all posts yet - but wanted to offer this opinion on the Jin1/Jin2 conundrum.
at the end, when Jin washes up on the beach, did rousseau not ask him if he speaks english? he replies, 'a little' - or something to that effect. its got to be Jin2 - post freighter explosion, bc Jin1 (fleeing from the others) was just barely learning english - if my memory serves?

#76. Posted by: b mar at February 5, 2009 12:24 PM

-65 welh
I had some of those same, but not nearly so legally accurate, misgivings during the show. I think TPTB have backed themselves into many corners. But being TPTB, they will find a way to write themselves out, as well.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled suspension of reality.

-10 Cecil: Awesome theory about Rousseau.

I do believe I am getting ze bloody nozez referred to by -31 Undaunted.

#77. Posted by: lovelost at February 5, 2009 12:33 PM

Here are my TOP 10 observations / questions from last night's episode (best of this season so far, I think) as well as a few from "Jughead" since I just rewatched it:

(1) Canton-Rainier (the carpet company on the side of Ben's van) is an ANAGRAM for REINCARNATION.

(2) Is Abigail Spencer (the sister of Farady's old girlfriend) the same person as the deli lady that Ben meets with regarding putting Locke into deep freeze? I think so, but have not looked up screen shots (yet).

(3) Even if Sun aims her gun at Ben and pulls the trigger, I doubt the island will allow him to die. Kinda like Tom told Michael when he tried (twice) to kill himself: the island won't allow it. So go ahead Sun, bring it!

(4) The camp scenes in Jughead take place in 1954. This is approximately 20 years BEFORE Ben arrives on the island, right? Didn't he come in/around 1974 at the age of 11?

(5) I still think that Charlotte is Annie's daughter. Or is, at least, related to her in some fashion. Just a hunch.

(6) If Ellie = Elosie (Dan's mom/Mrs. Hawking) then it is very intersting that she seems to be working with Ben in present day but was a soldier with Widmore 50 years prior. Obviously, she has had some massive change in allegiance.

(7) Boat slip #23 -- love it!

(8) Best lines: Locke to Sawyer, "I needed that pain to get to where I am now." Also, Kate to Jack, "I have always been with you."

(9) Um, when did things between Ben and Sayid go sour? Why?

(10) Are we really supposed to believe that over the course of three years, the O6 have not all been in touch with each other? After all that they have been through? I mean, Kate acts like she has not seen/heard from Sun in forever and until Sayid beaks Hurley out the institution, I don't think they've had any contact.

Seemingly, the only post-return relations ships we have been privy to are:

Jack/Kate
Hurley/Sun (he went to Korea to meet Ji Yeon)
Jack/Hurley (multiple visits during Hurley's institutional stay)

So...what about Jack/Sayid? Was the first time they had contact post-rescue when Jack pulls the tranquilizers out of Sayid? Had Sayid contacted Sun at all in he past 3 years? Are they all not at least exchanging Christmas cards?

That's it! Thanks, Mac...and all the other regulars here. You rock!

#78. Posted by: GatorGal at February 5, 2009 12:39 PM

Crazy thought 1) Concerning Jin and his being within the radius of the island: The O6'ers were in a helicopter, not in "contact" with the island when it disappeared. Jin was in the WATER and so was Sawyer and Faraday (in the dingy) when the FDW moved the island. So, could it just be so simple as being in contact with the island(surrounding water included) that carries you with the island and not necessarily the radius?

Crazy thought 2) Ben has a deadline of 70 hours to get the O6'ers back to the island. It's already been a day (I presume without much thought)... So, I really don't think they are going to be able to go by boat to the island. There's simply not enough time - but we don't really know where/when the island is anyway. Was that ever decided? Near Fiji? Near Australia? In any case, a small boat couldn't possibly make it from L.A. to "where" in just a couple of days. I think.

Crazy thought 3) Lapidus. What happened to Lapidus? Remember when he saw the news footage of flight 815 at the bottom of the ocean and saw his pilot friend didn't have a wedding ring on? Maybe that wasn't his friend afterall. Maybe it was HIM that flew the plane and there really was another crash, not a fake set up by Widmore.

Ouch... nose bleeding again...

#79. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 5, 2009 12:41 PM

re: the jin 1 or jin 2 debate, didnt jin learn english long after the tug boat posse blew up the raft & took walt? wouldnt that support the theory that this jin is the jin floating after the freighter explosion? i feel a nosebleed coming on

#80. Posted by: Jin & Tonic at February 5, 2009 12:47 PM

NOSEBLEEDs?

Nothing
Others
Say
Explains
Ben's
Lethal
Evil
Execution
Desires

#81. Posted by: welh at February 5, 2009 12:54 PM

I thought Sawyer's comments to Locke, to the effect of "Why don't you go tell yourself what's going on?" were very interesting. It implies that Sawyer will not consider the implications of 'meeting yourself' and what effects that might cause. Which clearly would not be Sawyer's style anyhow...

Also, has anyone noticed how very linear the story has become? I suppose it's inevitable as we get closer to the end, but I miss the old format a bit.

#82. Posted by: The Duf at February 5, 2009 12:57 PM

How about Jin was in the radius of the jumping island but the O6 were in the vector which everyone else needed to arrive or depart the island? Lapidus would have known to stay on the heading when going back to he ship. Does this mean there could be other survivors of the freighter explosion?

#83. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 1:00 PM

Not sure if anyone checked it out yet, but on the Akira AIrways website, they flash weather/temps for cities around the world. One of the temps is for Tustin, CA, home of my favorite Lostie, John Locke. It appears the other locations are also the home cities of other Losties too.

Also, if you look at the Boarding pass, the hieroglyphs from the countdown timer are on the edges of the sample pass.

#84. Posted by: Paulo at February 5, 2009 1:05 PM

#17 - "Wasn't it mentioned that Widmore had been looking for the island for 20 years?"

Has anyone thought of or brought up the possibility that Widmore sent the Frenchies looking for the island?

#85. Posted by: opserc at February 5, 2009 1:07 PM

Didn't we surmise that Sun blames both Jack and Ben for Jin's (supposed) death? She could be gunning for either of them. And who sent her that gun??? The immediate supposition would be Widmore. But that seems too easy/obvious. I'm trying to think of a reason for Ben to be behind that, too.

Ok, if Locke et al are on their way to the Orchid, and Locke turns the FDW back to where it was (pre-Ben's turn) to stop the record-skipping, is that when Locke is transported somewhere and becomes Bentham? Ben said he (Ben)could not return to the Island after turning the wheel. But we're assuming that Locke can. Or will - in a casket.

Faraday still wearing the blood-stained shirt doesn't bother me nearly as much as him still wearing that tie. Aha! It just might be the reincarnation of Cindy's scarf!!

#86. Posted by: lovelost at February 5, 2009 1:27 PM

@48. Posted by: schiano
"is it possible that the footsteps and whispers the losties always hear in the forest (especially in season 1)just their future selves?"

@50. Posted by: lost2theworld
"They are just a "whisper" of all those who have "jumped" to that moment. The whispers are hard to understand because you can't interfere with the past? Maybe; interesting to ponder at the very least."

This time travel element will now greatly effect the re-watchability of the show. I remember how during s4, I rewatched the entire series, and noted how different an experience it was (based on the info at that point).

When you rewatch the episode where Aaron is born, you'll be wondering where peeping Sawyer is standing...

When Locke feels the pain in his leg, and Boone climbs to the plane, we now know this is linked to the gun shot wound delivered by our old friend Ethan Rom....

It would be interesting to rewatch again, this time keeping in mind that there are potential time travelers out and about...

@64. Posted by: Chunky
"My question is, how did Jin get to/stay with the island after it vanished?"

I'm certainly hoping there is some explanation of this, cause it does seem weak. We know the freighter did move closer to the island - perhaps Jin eventually floated to the spot where the island perimeter was, and due to his previous exposure to the island, he traveled too?

At this point, I have to divulge that I was always bothered by Faraday and the Zodiac traveling to the freighter. Why didn't the helicopter spot them at all while following those specific coordinates? The timing just seemed screwy...

@65. Posted by: welh
re: the law

At least they are consistent with their inconsistancies when it comes to Kate and the law! But yeah - kinda weak. In this scenario though, we can also attribute this to Kate's stupidity. It does not seem that she contacted her own lawyer for advice (just like she didn't listen when she settled for confinement in California), so in theory, the lawyer could have been bluffing.

In the case of Hurley, I guess we just need to assume that Ben has access to some players who are well connected, and can bend the law and make things happen. If Widmore can fake a plane crash, I guess I can believe that Ben has the power, wealth and influence to find a way to spring Hurley via the system. Obviously pretty weak though. And clearly, I'm a cynic who believes undetected corruption still exists (as it always has) within our power structures....

All in all welh, I hear what you are saying, but still have to crack a smirk at being critical about the realism of the show. Lol - Just rewatch the scene where Hugo explains what "really" happened on the island to his mother, and think "realism". I loved that scene, though I found it hard to believe that she did not think he was totally Koo-Koo for Cocoa Puffs, considering he did just break out of an institution. For all you parents out there, how would you react if you heard that story from your offspring? Anyhoots - such an awesome summary of the whacky events that happened on the island!

re: Claire's mom

Is it clear when she woke up? Could it not have been not long after Oceanic crashed? Jack's pops could have paid well in advance for her treatment?

re: Inconsistent time travel stuff

I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt on this, and assume that we will eventually get a better understanding of how the time travel works. As of now, we are still uncertain who and what is traveling - As Faraday speculated - is it them or the island that is traveling? Perhaps it could also be at times a combination of the two? Creative writing can come up with creative solutions...

I need a re-watch!

#87. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 1:27 PM

@85
Good point on the Frenchies being a scouting party for Widmore. They looked prepared for disaster. Big time rescue raft, rain parkas, weapons, etc.

Also great point (on who ever nicknamed him). Jin'n Tonic still might be finding his way back from Nellie's Crab Shack in Honolulu.

#88. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 5, 2009 1:36 PM

@ 85-Yes I had thought that! Not until last night...but it did enter my mind! :)

@ 65
Point A: There were no police involved and no courts...my guess is it was all a mind game set up by Ben...nothing legal about it.

Point B. Attorneys DO run around town giving checks to people when it is...PART OF A MIND GAME that Ben is setting up.

Point C. The way the lawyer talked about the preceedings definitely made it sound like money or something else was used to coerce the judge...ie "The judge will never let it get past that."
Point 2. Claire's mom was at the funeral...obviously she is alive and well...somehow. Regardless this isn't the first time we've seen her. As for the guilt and money...who says the money stopped? And Claire was only going to LA temporarily so its not like she lost all decision making power.

Point 3. Ben going back wouldn't help...as he said the O6 need to go back...now you could argue he coudl just kidnap them...but Sayid doesn't mess around...and where would the fun be in that?

Point 4. I don't think they are the same exact type of illnesses...the people getting nose bleeds are people who have been on the island a medium amount of time...as in more than Losties, less than Others. Their sickness is b/c they are time traveling ONLY with events on the island...not their whole lives...I don't think their sickness has to do with constants...Desmond is an anomaly as described by Daniel...so that leave George for the freighter people and he had never been to the island and tried to get to it without a rift in the "shell" and without the proper 305 bearing...

Point 5. As they stated in the episode the people in the camp RAN AWAY when whoever int he canoes arrived...so it is most likely they WERE there when it FOOMed back...although that particular scene is in the future...and we're not sure how far in the future...

Point 6. As someone else stated...there was no physical contact between the helicopter and the island...the water connected Jin and the island...and the island knew Jin was a part of it just as it knows the O6 are...so it took Jin with it, lol.

FInal comment: It is a TV show...there are allowances to be made for that...and if you take it so seriously you're definitely not going to enjoy it.

#89. Posted by: Shana Roberson at February 5, 2009 1:37 PM

@66 - October 15 is not '815' - October is the 10th month. Now, if it were August 15, we'd be in business..

#90. Posted by: b mar at February 5, 2009 1:41 PM

Is it just me has the actor that plays Locke aged like 10 years. He's all flabby. Just distracts me is all.

#91. Posted by: rinz at February 5, 2009 1:46 PM

@32. Posted by: ransomjackson
Sorry, RJ, not impressed with your superpowers. Anyone who's ever been in a hospital knew DartMan was lying. These meds go to the person in room 133? Never!

@welh - I'm with you. I was seriously disappointed last night. To me, the show shifted from "cool spooky island stuff" to "murder mystery with multiple twists don't trust anyone." *yawn*

#92. Posted by: hurling at February 5, 2009 1:47 PM

@78 #10... "Are we really supposed to believe that over the course of three years, the O6 have not all been in touch with each other? After all that they have been through? I mean, Kate acts like she has not seen/heard from Sun in forever and until Sayid beaks Hurley out the institution, I don't think they've had any contact."

Why can't it happen? People grow apart, it happens. I was with a girlfriend for almost 5 years. We broke up on relatively good terms. It's been almost 6 years and I haven't talked to her since.

Life happens. People move on. They grow apart.

#93. Posted by: schiano at February 5, 2009 1:48 PM

@92

Concur. Last night's "The little Prince" was a bit of a sacrificial lamb to hopefully "set up" future great shows

#94. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 5, 2009 1:50 PM

As for Whispers/People Jumping time:

Remember the time the psychiatrist found Juliet in the woods. There were whispers and then she appeared. they started to talk ant THEN she disappeared out of no where. Was she time traveling too?
Just a thought...

#95. Posted by: Lost Is Found at February 5, 2009 1:53 PM

Has anyone translated the conversation the people on the raft were having? I don't speak French but I'm wondering if they say anything noteworthy.

Any French folk care to offer a general translation?

#96. Posted by: Paul at February 5, 2009 1:56 PM

@95. Posted by: Lost Is Found

The time travel thing certainly forces us to reconsider what the "dead people talking" and "smokey" are. I don't think these visions are time travelers though - I think this is something they will better explain when they start revealing more about Jacob's cabin.

It has crossed my mind though - In theory, could not Smokey be some sort of technology that originated from the future? We've confirmed that time travel can also move forward from the present, as they saw the beach camp return with all the supplies missing. Who knows how far into the future they might leap. Perhaps we will meet Aaron and Sun's Kid (what was his name again?), and Desmond's Charlie, with an older guy named Walt?

#97. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 2:07 PM

"sacre bleu"

Is this what it takes to be a $110/per day extra on Lost.

"Oh mon Dieu"

Where's Rousseau's cold cream?

Best part of the show. Revisiting the French connection

#98. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 5, 2009 2:08 PM

I don't think I've seen anyone point this out: Didn't the Dharma dude (don't remember his name) that Locke ran into in the jungle a season or 2 ago have a nose bleed? We were left to believe he was like a ghost or something, but now with all the nose bleeds going on, seems significant.

@#79; Crazy thought #2: I think Jack said something about Sayid being unconsious for like 40 some hours, so time is running short!

#99. Posted by: RAW26 at February 5, 2009 2:09 PM

@98. Posted by: Islandhopper

Fetchez la vache!

#100. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 2:10 PM

***** SPOILERS *****
I was in such a good mood after the Lakers won last night, and couldn't wait to go upstairs, turn on the Tivo and check out Lost. BORING! Don't tell me anyone here didn't think Jin was still alive... This is still the best show though because Heroe's kinda sucked.

#101. Posted by: boozy at February 5, 2009 2:26 PM

Did we ever see Richard Alpert when we were introduced to Otherton, Juliette, Patchy etc? I know the guy playing Richard was on another show at the time, but wouldn't he have been around while Ben was being the leader? I don't remember ever seeing him during that season.

#102. Posted by: Rudy at February 5, 2009 2:27 PM

Going on the theory that other people are time traveling other than the Locke, Sawyer, etc...

Could it be that Jack's dad was time traveling, Big Walt, and for freakin sake, Kate's horse?!?!?!

Would change my whole thoughts about how this island works.

#103. Posted by: Lost is Found at February 5, 2009 2:29 PM

@99

Good call about the nose bleeding of the "Darma Dude"

#104. Posted by: Lost is Found at February 5, 2009 2:31 PM

Hope to finally see the back story go back further. Maybe hints or glimpses of the Black Rock.

I think this is as far back as we've gone (back) so far? The 1954 "Jughead" Hydrogen bomb test/reference (which) unfortunately grew out of the Atomic Bomb utilized at the end of WWII - August 6, 1945.

#105. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 5, 2009 2:33 PM

Was it strange that when Jack and kate were sitting in the car outside of the Red Roof, it wasn't raining but then it suddenly started raining extremely hard? Can anyone confirm?

#106. Posted by: PeterisLost at February 5, 2009 2:33 PM

I don't know into these crazy theories you guys are, but I'm telling you this one is pretty intense check it out:

http://www.lostreview.com/2007/05/another-theory-on-abcs-lost.cfm

#107. Posted by: boozy at February 5, 2009 2:37 PM

@106
You have never been somewhere where it is not raining but then really quickly it starts to rain?? It happens all the time. I know we need to analyze many things on this show, but that might be a stretch..

#108. Posted by: Lost Is Found at February 5, 2009 2:37 PM

@96: I saw the translation on another site this morning. They're talking about THE numbers, which makes sense now why Danielle had THE numbers on a piece of paper when Hurley confronted her a while back.
Also, the radio transmission right before Jin wakes up on the beach is repeating the numbers.
also of note with the numbers: Sayid was out for 42 minutes; Kate lives at house #42; and slip #23 at the marina.

#109. Posted by: Steve at February 5, 2009 2:40 PM

@62 If Jin never met Rousseau then why the weird look when she said her name?

Also CRAZY THOUGHT HERE.

What if Ben and gang flew Ajira Airlines to get back to the Island and it was no other than Jack, Kate, Ben and crew chasing after them. Maybe Ben got capped from Juliette. LOL.

#110. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at February 5, 2009 2:45 PM

@109:
I think Sayid was out for 42 hours, not minutes. I'm not positive, though.

#111. Posted by: RAW26 at February 5, 2009 2:55 PM

it seems another flight crashed on the island. island is attracting flights like a candle attracts flies :)

for an airline from India, Ajira airlines doesn't have a single location listed on the From and To list of destination. Nor does it list any india related info on the web site.

#112. Posted by: aj at February 5, 2009 3:00 PM

Not to put too fine a point on this but...

The Flight Attendant on the Ajira Airways website STOLE CINDY's SCARF!

#113. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 3:07 PM

the bomb was named jugghead in case you didn't know

#114. Posted by: QZ at February 5, 2009 3:21 PM

my bad Raw26, meant to say hours.

#115. Posted by: Steve at February 5, 2009 3:30 PM

Long time reader, first time blah blah blah....

This episode ("The Little Prince") made me wonder if, during the time flashes on the island, we'll see a Future Aaron who becomes the Other's Leader in oh, say, 2024? Aaron was born on the island, and I would bet a 1000 Cindy Scarves that he will have 'powers' a la Walt as he gets older.

#116. Posted by: elrusoblanco at February 5, 2009 3:35 PM

hummm... Interesting thought there elrusoblanco. Alex was also born on the island. When she was killed, Ben said "he [Widmore] changed the rules" indicating Alex was not supposed to die. If Aaron and Alex were both born on the island, maybe they were supposed to be the "Adam and Eve." ???

#117. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 5, 2009 3:40 PM

Like so many of you, I had a real problem with Jin beating the Chopper back to the island & getting inside the perimeter. That’s why I was so glad that somebody came up with the Jin1/Jin2 theory but it seems we’ve shot that down too due to Jin1’s inability to speak English. This leaves only one logical conclusion. Jin beats the chopper back to the island by hitching a ride with a Dharma shark.

#118. Posted by: cookie at February 5, 2009 3:51 PM

There is a real life organization known as the B612 foundation. The Goal of the B612 Foundation is to significantly alter the orbit of an asteroid, in a controlled manner, by 2015.

Could the Island be a shield protecting the Earth from other worldly objects? Who knows at this point.

#119. Posted by: Aztecdoug at February 5, 2009 4:01 PM

or, the island wouldn't "let" Jin die, just as it wouldn't let Michael die until his mission had been completed. Which brings up a question - wonder if Michael is still alive too?

#120. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 5, 2009 4:02 PM

I think we can solve the mystery of how Jin was "picked up" as follows. After the freighter blew up, he WAS out of range. But he is on a board and begins to drift with the current. On one of the flashes, (and we can't be sure which, but I think the speculated "future" flash) he has come into range, and therefore the island hauls him along for the ride. This also makes his exposure (he looked sunburned) more plausible, since he took a couple days to float into range.

#121. Posted by: The Duf at February 5, 2009 4:08 PM

Tooling around the Ajira website, there's some hexadecimal code hidden in the source code.

Copy the hex code and paste it into a hexadecimal translator - any search engine can find one for you.

Couple of neat passages embedded in there.

Not sure what it all means, but it's fun to mess around with.

I felt like Ralphie in A Christmas Story messing around with my Little Orphan Annie decoder ring.

#122. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 4:12 PM

@118. Posted by: cookie
"Jin beats the chopper back to the island by hitching a ride with a Dharma shark."

Just keeping my fingers crossed that we don't hit a point where Jin is water-skiing, and jumps over the Dharma shark...

Ayyyyyyyy!

#123. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 4:17 PM

@ransomjackson:

I can see Sawyer crouched in the beach outhouse with Locke banging on the door:

"Be ... sure ... to ... drink ... your ... Dharma ... beer. A crummy commercial? Son of a bitch!"

#124. Posted by: mac at February 5, 2009 4:25 PM

I don't understand why this whole Jin thing is hard to believe.

-The boat blows up but he jumps off of it prior to the explosion.
-After the explosion, he is in range of the island that sucks him into the time travel that everyone is going through
-As for the sunburn, even if he goes with the island when it moves, it doesn't mean he can't still be floating in the water and gets the burns.
-As for the Jin 1 vs Jin 2, that is the most ridiculous thing. First as everyone is saying, he didn't know English that well back then. PLUS, when he does run out yelling others, the Others as we know them, not the French follow behind him. Not even sure why anyone is even entertaining the Jin1/Jin 2 theory.

This blog is the best because all of you that comment are intellegent and it amazes me how much you pick up. You see things that I wouldn't even think of which makes all of you so good for me to read this. But this Jin1/Jin2 theory has to be dropped. You're all better than this.

Ok, off to dinner. I'm going to eat some Tyson Anytizers with Walt. Peace!

#125. Posted by: Lost Is Found at February 5, 2009 4:25 PM

Dammit, Mac - and no I won't apologize to anyone who's offended by my swearing - that was funny.

Wish I'd thought of it.

#126. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 5, 2009 4:32 PM

could walt suddenly appearing on the island just be him time traveling and making contact with the losties?

#127. Posted by: schiano at February 5, 2009 4:48 PM

@121/ The Duf

The issue with the island disappearing with the FDW is that it has not returned to its location, otherwise Ben would not have searched for it for the past three years.

A helicopter moving toward the island and not making it within the snow globe radius has to be traveling faster than the ocean current carrying an unconscious freighter explosion survivor from a farther distance.

Further, we have two different "times" intersecting just off the island (16 years a part) when Rousseau shipwreck crew finds Jin floating in their path.

#128. Posted by: welh at February 5, 2009 4:57 PM

@125/Lost Is Found
"I don't understand why this whole Jin thing is hard to believe ...
After the explosion, he is in range of the island that sucks him into the time travel that everyone is going through"

THIS is the problem ... what happened to the freighter then? The first thing Sawyer notices afer the first VOOM is that the freighter is gone, and he argues with Juliet that it couldn't possibly have just sunk or simply disappeared. Assuming Jin survived the blast, that's fine, but exactly how did he get sucked along with the time-jumpers, while the burning/sinking freighter in his immediate vacinity did not?

#129. Posted by: ealgumby at February 5, 2009 5:07 PM

I was moved to tears by the scene when Sawyer saw Kate in the jungle. My first thought was:
Kate is Sawyers constant!
He will escape the time warp disease by searching for Kate.

#130. Posted by: Galadriel72 at February 5, 2009 5:15 PM

@129

The freighter wasn't within the "time-travelling radius", whereas Jin must have floated gradually closer to the island, and hence, entering the radius.

#131. Posted by: Reto at February 5, 2009 5:17 PM

@129
If he survived the blast, he obviously wasn't on the boat. So he could of been within the parameters of the moving island. Could of been by feet or even inches. Honestly, if you are believing into this show and that an island actually moves, why couldn't he of been within the parameters of the moving island??? Thats all I'm saying...

#132. Posted by: Lost is Found at February 5, 2009 5:17 PM

Sawyer and Juliet see the freighter smoke on the horizon vanish after the first flash.
The O6 see the island vanish after the first flash.
From both on and off island perspectives, the island moved in space.
Faraday claims that he was able to return to the island because he was inside the island's radius, a set diameter of space.
Ben cannot locate the island because it moved until Mrs. Hawkings finds the new coordinates in the event window.

So from the story's own construct, Jin and the O6 have to be treated the same. But last night's story treats Jin as a time jumper within the island radius (like the zodiac) while the O6 are treated as being left outside the radius.

#133. Posted by: welh at February 5, 2009 5:33 PM

Great catch on Jin & Daniel being in the water when the Island moved. I'm thinking this water vs. air difference in piercing the bubble could explain why the Others preferred using a Submarine.

#134. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 5:35 PM

I miss your long, light hearted reviews, Mac.

Get your priorities in order young man! Lost first, everything else second!

#135. Posted by: Mike at February 5, 2009 5:36 PM

Long time reader, first time poster. Glad to join the fray.

Re @106

Your mentioning the sudden downpour outside the motel in in Los Angeles got me thinking. Jack and Kate's weather experience may have coincided with the current weather conditions experienced by the time travelling Fr/Losties. And what might that mean regarding Locke's numerous, previous (perhaps?) rain premonitions? Any thoughts?

#136. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at February 5, 2009 5:40 PM

@ 133 - since you mentioned radius...

First, because of its altitude, the helicopter would have to fly much farther to get inside a spherical radius than any object on the surface of the water. Second, if the radius is not perfectly spherical, which is mathematically likely, then objects in the air would have to travel much, much farther to get inside it.

In short, the higher the helicopter was, the closer it would have to get, and if Lapidus was skimming the surface of the water, the O6 wouldn't have been saved. Maybe. ;)

FOOM!

#137. Posted by: Bill at February 5, 2009 5:41 PM

My guess was that the lawyers after Kate were representing the couple who had contracted with Claire to adopt her baby. Too logical I guess. One would think they would at least want their down payment back.

#138. Posted by: lostsox at February 5, 2009 5:48 PM

Does anyone have an idea how much time actually passed between the freighter explosion and the first VOOM? Sawyer jumped out the chopper before the explosion, but it would have taken awhile for him to swim back to the Island. So sometime after he started swimming the explosion happened and Jin started floating toward the Island. Now, it wasn't as long or as fast as Sawyer, but it had to be enough to get him within the radius.

#139. Posted by: Hotpocket23 at February 5, 2009 5:50 PM

another qoute: "Who are they other others?"--Sawyer

#140. Posted by: point at February 5, 2009 5:50 PM

Dont know if this has been brought up yet but isnt the reason for the nose bleeds a lack of a constant??
Sawyer saw Kate=his constant
Locke saw the hatch light=his constant
Faraday already knows Desmond is his constant

The only three without a constant are Charlotte Miles and Juliet. The O6 need to come back to be their constants.

#141. Posted by: Lostfan2009 at February 5, 2009 5:53 PM

only to 54 so far, but.... I really expected to see a 4-toed statue after the canoe came ashore in the storm.

#142. Posted by: So_Lost at February 5, 2009 6:45 PM

→ 141. ...Locke saw the hatch light=his constant

I think it makes more sense that Alpert is Locke's constant. He saw him off island as a child and obviously has seen him on island. Isn't that the key to a constant? You have to know them in the present and in "island" time. Help me remember if that is not the case.

#143. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 5, 2009 7:01 PM

Translation from Lostpedia:

ROBERT: Je t'ai bien dit! On n'aurait jamais du suivre ces maudits chiffres! (I told you so! We never should have followed those damn numbers!)
MONTAND: C'est pas ma faute, Robert. Brennan devait tenir le sonar! (It's not my fault, Robert. Brennan was in charge of the sonar!)
BRENNAN: Mais je le faisais, Montand! Je vous l'ai déja dit, les instruments ont mal fonctionné! (I was watching, Montand! I told you already, the instruments malfunctioned!)
ROUSSEAU: Un homme á la mer! (Man overboard!)
(Man) Quoi? (What?)
Mais je pensais qu'on était tous là! (I thought we were all there!)
On est tous la! il n'est pas des autres. Alors qui est-ce? (We ARE all here! He's not one of us. So who is it?)
(Shouting in French)
Pagaie! Pagayez! Allez (Paddle! Paddle! Come on!)
"pointez la lampe de poche sur lui" (focus the light on him) "il faut tenir la lampe torche" (We have to hold the light)
"brennan (?), aidez a pagayer" (brennan, help paddling)
"allez depechez vous! nous derivons avec le courant" (come on! hurry up! we are moving with the stream)
"non, il n'y a que lui! pas de bateau, rien" (no.. There's only him! no boat! nothing!)
" (????) allez sur la cote" (???? reach the coast)
"nom de dieu brennan! ta gueule!" (In the name of god, brennan, STFU)
"montez le dans le radeau" (bring him in the raft) "aide moi" (help me)
"Il respire encore" (He's still breathing)
(speaking in French continues)
=================================================

AUTOMATED VOICE OVER RADIO: 4... 8...
MONTAND: Robert... Regarde, le signal vient de l'ile (Robert! look at that, the signal comes from the island) ROBERT: Tu peux determiner la source? (Can you locate the source?)
AUTOMATED VOICE OVER RADIO: 15... 16...
MONTAND: Bien sur que oui... regarde (of course I can... look)
ROBERT: Tu crois que l'ile est habitee? (you think the island is inhabited?)
(both speaking french)
ROUSSEAU: Ça va? Comment tu te sens? (how do you feel?)
JIN: No understand.
ROUSSEAU: (French accent) You speak English?
JIN: (Panting) A little.
ROUSSEAU: Are you okay?
JIN: Yes.
ROUSSEAU: How did you get here?
JIN: Boat.
(Man) Qui-est-ce? (who is it?)
(Man)On s'en fout qui c'est. (we don't care who he is)
- Qu'est ce qu'il fait ici? (what is he doing here?) - Il dit qu'il est venu en bateau ( he says he was on a boat)
ROBERT: (French accent) What boat?
JIN: It's gone. Sink.
ROUSSEAU: It must've been caught in the same storm as ours.
MONTAND: Who are you? How long you were in the water?
JIN: I don't know.
MONTAND: How do you not know how you wound up in the middle of the ocean, ah?
ROUSSEAU: Montand... (Leave him alone! he's shocked)
(- Do we have some water for him?) (- yeah)
(- here) ROUSSEAU: Merci, Robert.
()
JIN: (Exhales deeply) Thank you.
ROUSSEAU: What is your name?
JIN: Kwon Jin-su. Jin.
ROUSSEAU: Hello, Jin. I'm Danielle. Danielle Rousseau.
L O S T

#144. Posted by: babush at February 5, 2009 7:24 PM

If the island is jumping- why couldn't Jin just have been "hanging out" and it "came back around". They fished him out of the water. He wasn't on the island.

#145. Posted by: youknowwho at February 5, 2009 7:28 PM

@ QZ - 114
"the bomb was named jugghead in case you didn't know"

In honor of davidrh...

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

=]

#146. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 8:06 PM

@ Mac - "I wish Benjamin Linus could have planned my wedding. That buggy little bastard might be evil incarnate, but dammit, he can Get Things Done."

Yeah, me too... and he will... when I marry him. He will be doing all the work.

Although he'll probably get arrested for being a pedophile before it gets that far, but still... I can dream. =]

#147. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 5, 2009 8:09 PM

@21 Shana Roberson recollected:

>Bill...Jack sent Kate to handle Claire b/c he was trying to save Boone by amputating his leg or whatever that was about...he couldn't deliver the baby...so they weren't together...

iirc, Jack was busy transfusing his own blood into Boone, with a sea urchin needle supplied by Sun.

o------

@87 shikotee thought about:

>still have to crack a smirk at being critical about the realism of the show. Lol - Just rewatch the scene where Hugo explains what "really" happened on the island to his mother, and think "realism". I loved that scene, though I found it hard to believe that she did not think he was totally Koo-Koo for Cocoa Puffs, considering he did just break out of an institution.

I have a friend at work who hasn't watched Lost since about S-2. As I was rewatching "Jughead" (wasn't that the name of the bomb?) on my computer via DVD after work last Friday, he stopped by, saw what I was watching, and commented on it.

Naturally, I had to fill him in on the latest developments. "Oh, the island's not there any more, it disappeared after Ben Linus turned the frozen donkey wheel and the island went 'bloop', but six of them got off, but they have to lie and say the others are dead to keep the mercenaries from killing them, but now they want to go back because John Locke, who's running the Others now, and some of the old guys and some of the new ones rom the freighter that was sent to killl them all have travelled back to 1954 where they have to defuse this H-bomb, see, and ...",

You can guess how he was looking at me by then. Hurley's mom, on the other hand, i think, with a mother's love, believed him.

o------

@90 b mar held forth that:

>October 15 is not '815' - October is the 10th month. Now, if it were August 15, we'd be in business..

October was once the eighth month, hence the name. Maybe the note was written in Roman times during a time travel episode.

o------

@96 Paul asked:

>Has anyone translated the conversation the people on the raft were having? I don't speak French but I'm wondering if they say anything noteworthy.

>Any French folk care to offer a general translation?

Where is En Provence when we need her?

o------

@118 cookie wrote:

>...I was so glad that somebody came up with the Jin1/Jin2 theory but it seems we’ve shot that down too due to Jin1’s inability to speak English.

Jin1 was learning a little English at the time the raft was launched, and Sun gave him a cheat sheet with useful english phrases like "port", "starboard", and "no, those pants don't make your butt look too big."

o------

@120 BunnyLover theorized:

>or, the island wouldn't "let" Jin die, just as it wouldn't let Michael die until his mission had been completed. Which brings up a question - wonder if Michael is still alive too?

But remember Christian appeared to Michael just before the explosion and said "Your work is done, now Michael, you can go,"

o------

@125 Lost Is Found struggled to remember:

>As for the Jin 1 vs Jin 2, that is the most ridiculous thing. First as everyone is saying, he didn't know English that well back then. PLUS, when he does run out yelling others, the Others as we know them, not the French follow behind him.

Actually, it wasn't the Others who came out but the Tailies, and Eko bashed everyone with his Jesus stick, then Sawyer, Michael, and Jin spent a little while in the tiger cage before the Tailies and Losties were persueded that they were all on the same side and set out on a cross-island jaunt for the beach camp.

>Not even sure why anyone is even entertaining the Jin1/Jin 2 theory.

Precisely because it IS entertaining to think ahead and try to anticipate.

#148. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 5, 2009 8:11 PM

Hi, Great review Mac.

I an only at post 53 or so and need to bake a cake......real life. But I wanted to say that I need an media lostpedia search engine. Like I type in Jin and Rousseau and I get a list of clickable videos with the two of them in it. In chronological order please. Then I could check who knew whom when and where.

And for everyone who queried about the outriggers. I agree that it could be the O6 themselves . Why would they be shooting? Because they don't know it is them.....They....Theirselves.

I'll be back.

#149. Posted by: berkyo at February 5, 2009 8:13 PM

@#144 babush

Thanks so much for the French translation. Intersting...your run-of-the-mill Lost watcher would just blow the French converations off...not our group!! Their conversation is significant...

#150. Posted by: boodle at February 5, 2009 8:21 PM

Is there some reason why we are assuming that Jin's froom into Danielle's time zone is simultaneous with the first froom we saw immediately after the explosion of the freighter?

There have been several frooms since the freighter explosion... Jin might have drifted back towards the island, into the perimeter and ended up with Danielle on a froom subsequent to the first one.

Didn't Desmond find that he could not sail away from the island? Wouldn't that same "current" have effected Jin?

Or are we figuring that since the island appears to be gone, it would not have the same effect on a floating adrift post freighter explosion Jin?

#151. Posted by: undaunted at February 5, 2009 8:40 PM

@Mike: If I were truly young, I'd have plenty of time for the long reviews ;)

#152. Posted by: mac at February 5, 2009 9:06 PM

Hey Mac, welcome back! GRAA!

I have to say, I am very excited about how Lost is developing. And I am hopeful that we are getting back to the Island faster rather than slower! I am also looking forward to seeing the backstory for Rousseau. One nitpick though...the Freighter was outside of the Island's sphere of influence when it "moved". The helicopter, which was flying at top speed from the freighter back to the Island was also outside of the sphere. So how then was Jin, who was on the freighter, get blown farther than the chopper to end up within the sphere?!?

And didn't Danielle tell Sayid she had never seen anyone else on the Island ("but I hear them!")?!?

@7. Clementine:

I agree. i was really intrigued by Charlotte when she first arrived, and the hint that she was born on the Island, but they need to give her something more to do than bleed or pretend not to know that Faraday's in love with her.

@10. Cecil Rose:

Did Jin on the raft know any English at that point? Interesting idea, but I am going with the idea of freighter Jin until proven otherwise. I also like the idea of the French team coming from 2004/5! That would be a great twist!

@31. undaunted:

Yes, Ben did say he wouldn't be able to return. Ben says lots of things. One of them was "I wasn't being entirely truthful".

@33. Naike:

I think it was established that the woman with Faraday was a caretaker. It has been implied that Faraday developed mental problems, possibly from his own experiments. See the episode where he is trying to remember cards on the beach with Charlotte.

Oh and Mac, we're on the same page when it comes to the Journey reunion! Don't stop believin! ;)

#153. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 5, 2009 9:16 PM

For those interested, I've posted a preview of the upcoming "Survivor Tocantins" season in the Survivor blog.

Click my name below to go there.

#154. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 5, 2009 9:31 PM

@65. welh :

1.A. Who says they really have a court order? Kate never even read the paperwork he was holding...

2. Claire's mother came out of it. We saw her 3 years earlier at Papa Shepherd's funeral. Several months had passed between when Claire saw her last and we saw her next. If the fact that over 3 months she came out of a coma is the thing that ruins your willing suspension of disbelieve, LOST is not the show for you, my friend.

3. Again, TPTB have set up that the O6 have to return. That's how the Island works. They get to decide that. If Ben could get back without them, that wouldn't be very interesting would it?

4. We've been told the Minkowski effect occurs when the mind can;t tell the present from the past from the future. Faraday has already met his constant (his notebook said Desmond Hume was his constant) in the present and the past, so in theory Faraday could be completely fine.Plus we have a new theory that the more time one spends on the Island, the worse it is. New rule, writers' prerogative.

5. They've pretty consistently let anything with the Losties jump with them. I really don't have an issue with this.

6. Yes, I agree the Jin thing was stretching it. Maybe we'll get an explanation. Or maybe it's just good fun entertainment!

#155. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 5, 2009 9:32 PM

@153 FenwayBen enquired:

>One nitpick though...the Freighter was outside of the Island's sphere of influence when it "moved". The helicopter, which was flying at top speed from the freighter back to the Island was also outside of the sphere. So how then was Jin, who was on the freighter, get blown farther than the chopper to end up within the sphere?!?

>Did Jin on the raft know any English at that point? Interesting idea, but I am going with the idea of freighter Jin until proven otherwise. I also like the idea of the French team coming from 2004/5! That would be a great twist!

Possibulities:

The Frenchies are from Dec 2004/Jan 2005 and pick up Jin2 OUTSIDE the zone, then carry him (and themselves) into it where the time fluxes do their thing.

The Frenchies are from October 2004, find Jin1 floating after the raft blow-up and carry him to the island where they leave him and sail off into time and let the Tailies find him. They hide out until time goes funny, everyone gets sick, and Rousseau goes back 18 years to live forward to 2004 again.

Pausing only to launch the occasional flaming arrow attach at those they thik are Others.

#156. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 5, 2009 9:44 PM

@84. Paulo:

Check out their Ajira Adventures...Australian Walkabout, Polar Adventure, Island Adventures, Swimming with Sharks, and Excavation: Ruins!

@90. b mar:

Before Julius Caesar got his hands on the calendar October was the eight month...Octo is from the Latin for 8!

@148. Cecil Rose: Man, you just beat me!

@106. PeterisLost:

Uh, that's not strange at all. Sudden rain storms happen all the time in Hawaii--er--I mean LA...

@144. babush: Thanks for the translation, you rock!

#157. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 5, 2009 10:04 PM

has anyone noticed the time differences on the ajira site in the weather widow? the minutes are off by a few here and there within time zones accross the board. minutes should be the same around the globe as well as within time zones. bad programming? probably not.

#158. Posted by: flegma at February 5, 2009 10:10 PM

@154 Surv. blog.
Shouldn't there be a comments box?

#159. Posted by: mtncbn at February 5, 2009 10:15 PM

91--
I've been noticing Locke geting flabby as well. He's definitely in need of a Mansierre. Or is it a Bro?

#160. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 5, 2009 10:35 PM

When Juliette & Co were paddling in the outrigger and the flash when FLOOM, did anyone else expect to see them swimming in the drink? Why didn't the outrigger disappear the way other things (ie, the camp, tents) disappear and leave them all dumped in the ocean?

Just sayin'.

#161. Posted by: Linda at February 5, 2009 10:40 PM

@147: You may love Ben but you sure don't understand him! He gets everyone else to do his dirty work!

#162. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 5, 2009 11:00 PM

So if the skippers are travelling to various points in time where the island needs to be saved--such as Daniel telling them how to deal with the leaky hydrogen bomb, then why'd they land in the time where Danielle first came to the island?
So they could give her some soap and deodorant?

I liked this episoade but it seems there just was not as much presented that seems discussion worthy. It advanced the story but did not really leave me with many questions or present many surprises.
When we find ourselves pondering the existence of semi-automatic dart guns, then its definitely below par for Lost (seriously! Was that gun really big enough to hold more than one or two darts? I felt really surprised when a second dart came flying out!--hmmmm guess there was a surprise in this episode!)
Still below par for Lost still beats anything else on tv!

#163. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 5, 2009 11:19 PM

Did anyone else notice that previously, Claire's mom had some kind of mole/growth on her chin, but not this time Jack sees her?

Trying to remember my island geography - are they not heading in the direction where they would pass the four toe statue? Can picture them passing it, flash of light, and full statue stands before them....

#164. Posted by: shikotee at February 5, 2009 11:38 PM

Wild speculation: What if Sun is after Sayid because he (probably accidentally, perhaps on purpose) killed Ji Yeon while working for Ben? No recent pictures of the kid, Sun out for revenge. And according to Lostpedia: "In the ARG The Lost Experience, Paik Heavy Industries had a sinister connection to the Hanso Foundation." Which means Sun's father's company (and now also hers) can be traced to the Dharma Initiative and thus Widmore. Could Ben have set Sayid loose on Paik Industries big shots leading to an accident where Ji Yeon is involved? Did Sayid and Sun see each other in yesterday's episode?

#165. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 6, 2009 1:04 AM

@165/Plain Simple: There has been no mention of Ji Yeon being killed or harmed. Sun is after Ben because she thinks it is his fault that the freighter exploded because Ben kept ranting about how the Freighties were there to kill them all. She thinks he somehow made the freighter blow up and kill Jin.

**Semi-spoiler (if you didn't watch or see the preview for next week)**

In the preview for next week, Ben tells Sun that Jin is alive in an obvious effort to prevent himself from being shot.

#166. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 6, 2009 8:24 AM

@166 PiecesofArzt

I don't think we are really certain that it is at Ben that Sun is aiming her gun. The picture she receives with the gun and report has both Ben and Jack. I think it may be Jack that she blames. Preview also has Sun yelling for Kate to get out of the way (line of fire). I don't think Kate would be shielding Ben with her body from a bullet. She must be standing close to Jack...

#167. Posted by: boodle at February 6, 2009 8:41 AM

I keep going back to Back to the Future when thinking of time travel. Probably because it did such a good job of laying out its rules of time travel and sticking to them.
In those movies, Marty made changes to the past and did his best to correct the course. When he did his future bore more of a resemblance to his original future but this was a separate new timeline created with minor differences--albeit ones he could live with (like his dad not being such a wimp).
So it would seem that the island or time travel rules in Lost will allow minor changes but must correct major ones. Certain people can't die until they're ready, just like Marty had to restore his own existence.
Also Marty in BTTF as a time traveler was aware of changes as they happened and aware of the differences in the timeline when he went back to his own time. Much like how our islanders are skipping through time are aware of the changes going on. People in the time periods they've visited--like Sojer girl aren't tripping through time and so have no awareness of the changes taking place.
The scenes of Locke seeing the hatch light and Sawyer watching Kate was reminiscent of Marty skulking around in part two seeing scenes from part one from a different angle and trying to avoid himself.

Hmm now that I think of it--
Michael J. Fox--Matthew Fox
Marty-in a rock band--Charlie-ditto
DeLorean--Dharma VW van
Bug eyed Doc Brown--Bug eyed Ben

Is Lost Back to the Future 4?
ok, now I'm reaching. Like I said, not much new in this episode to talk about!

#168. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 6, 2009 8:41 AM

@168 Crispy Seaplanes - "Is Lost Back to the Future 4?"

HA!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

#169. Posted by: boodle at February 6, 2009 9:00 AM

@117 - The Adam and Eve seems a bit of a stretch for Aaron and Alex, but I think that everyone is missing a vital point that this episode pointed out.

All this time, we have been believing the Alex was born on the island and we know that for a fact. We know she was taken from Rousseau - fact. We have been told that Alex is Ben's father but this has not yet been proven, has it? She is not Ben's daughter but I think the big question then should be, who is Alex's father. It must be very important if Ben was so affected by her being killed. I think she is more important than we think, but the Adam and Eve is a bit of a stretch.

#170. Posted by: Paulo at February 6, 2009 9:11 AM

what happened to smokey??
losties and others are jumping in time and roaming the island freely, I mean is there no order on that island? wasn't smokey supposed to keep that order???
just sayin'

#171. Posted by: mapache at February 6, 2009 9:32 AM

I freely admit to not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, but can someone please explain to me why everyone seems to be assuming that that Cheetoh-chomping crayon-up-the-nose tow-headed Aaron is the titular Little Prince?

Why can't it be Ben? Or Hurley? Or Locke? Or Daniel? Or anyone other than Turnip-head.

Quite frankly, to me it makes more sense that the little prince is Ben.

And for Pete's sake, can someone please give TPTB a primer in Legal Procedure 101? It's like they've never even watched an episode of Perry Mason.

#172. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 6, 2009 9:36 AM

OMG, this is what happens when I don't get to watch the episode on time and now am trying to catch up on the posts.

I'm seriously going to apologize right now if I discuss something that's already been posted but I'm only up to #70 and already I have too much to say:

1) I think we may have seen the first VOOM into the future. The Ajira Airways outrigger canoe and the abandoned camp lead me to think the island has been found and is now a destination spot of sorts (see also the tv ads and other stuff out there for Ajira Airways).
2) @65: welh - why does the fact that Faraday travelled to a time prior to Desmond's existence detract from the fact that Desmond is his constant? Not everyone seems to (yet) be affected by the nose bleedings, and they don't seem to be tied to the time period that people VOOM into. Perhaps it just hasn't caught up to him yet. I do agree, however, that parts of the new storylines are starting to unravel dangerously.
3) @78: GatorGal - observations #1, 3, and 5 are absolutely awesome and I wholeheartedly agree!
4) @91: rinz - yes, the actor that plays Locke does appear to have suddenly aged a bunch.
5) @121: The Duf - once the island was gone, it was gone. It didn't come back and "pick up" Jin for a ride. As ealgumby said, great so we're supposed to assume that Jin was "in range" of the time shift. Why not the ship he just got blown off of?

Quick personal irrelevant observation: I know this has been brought up before but it's starting to bother me. The whole premise of this season is that the island is hopping because the O6 left. Truth is that the island is hopping because Ben spun the donkey wheel of fortune. The fact that Locke and Been have both said that the O6 are the reason for the island being in the state that it is in is misleading at best, utterly false more likely.

Annoying observation - why must everyone hide everything from everyone else on this show? Why is it that when Kate asks Jack why he called and what he spoke to Claire's mom about it takes multiple prods before he says anything? That's just one example of people no divulging anything for absolutely no reason. For crying out loud!

So we're assuming Sun will try to kill Ben next week or soon thereafter. We can also assume she'll either be talked out of it or find out that she cannot kill him because he cannot die yet. What about her child? When she relents and decides to head back to the island with the rest is she going to go back and get her kid first? If not, and she gets to the island, finds Jin, and realizes she/they cannot go back isn't that going to be a heck of a babysitting bill they're going to run up? And isn't Jin going to be rather po'd at her for not bringing the baby along with her on her death-trip to nowhere? ;)

So now that Juliet's bleeding through the nose as well why hasn't she grabbed Farraday by the scruffs yet and threatened him with a loss of some appendage (you pick one at your leisure) if he doesn't speak up and tell everyone everything he knows right now y'hear?

What happened to Lapidius? Haven't seen/heard about him in quite some time.

What happened to the rest of the Losties left behind on the island that we haven't seen any more about? More importantly, if the Losties we've been seeing run into rest of them again how will they know if they're seeing the present-day (relatively speaking) ones or the ones from the past?

What is the deal with Mr. "I hear dead people"? The implication now is that he's been to the island before? Why in the world wouldn't he remember having been on the island in the past?

Why oh why is Kate acting like such a woos-bag? If someone is threatening her "son" she suddenly finds it prudent to sit around and fret about the whole thing? This behavior from the same person who blew her dad up and managed all kinds of heroics while she was on the island?

I agree that Rousseau should remember Jin in the future. No doubt about it. They're going to have to explain this one in a future episode if it's going to be believable.

Naming the episode "The Little Prince" was full of hints and clues but no hard evidence if you ask me. The name shows up in labels and stuff but where's the direct correlation to whom the title is referring to?

Ok, I'll post more soon once I've re-re-read everything and caught up past #166.

#173. Posted by: LostedIt at February 6, 2009 9:59 AM

Any thoguhts on WHY the island (according to Locke, I suppose) is demanding that the O6 are brought back but NOT including Frank Lapidus (who was there pre-island vanishing just as long as Farday, Miles and Charlotte)? And does this "we must bbring them all back" rule not apply to Desmond b/c he is "special?"

Technically, both Faraday and Desmond left the island too (same time as the O6) but they do not seem to be part of the required "return." Thoughts?

#174. Posted by: GatorGal at February 6, 2009 10:48 AM

After the island blink-out, if being in the water had a bearing on staying with the island, then maybe Jin and the freighter started time traveling with the frosties. But, how come the smoke from the freighter(which was in the air with the helicopter) went with it? The freighter could have finished sinking in the new place/time.

#175. Posted by: mtncbn at February 6, 2009 11:22 AM

Is it possible that Sun's baby is miles, sorry if the baby is a girl i can't remember?

#176. Posted by: Hightower at February 6, 2009 11:32 AM

The way I reconcile some of these questions is not to over-analyze. I mean, it's just television. Darlton & Co. cannot be that smart. Ealgumby and a few others around here are (me not so much), but not those guys.

Re. Jin's skipping with the island, maybe he just got thrown by the explosion close enough to the island to be dragged along in its wake. An explosion that big most likely would've killed him, but maybe the island (and TPTB) wants him alive.

Re. why the O6 must return and nobody else really seems to matter is because, for whatever reason yet TBD, the island brought them. Everyone else came of their own accord.

I agree that the identity of Alex's real father will be an interesting reveal. My money's on Christian Shepard. Or Richard Alpert.

My big question is just how the hell does Ben know seemingly everything? Eagle Eye and Enemy of the State notwithstanding, nobody can possibly be that well-connected. The only explanation that makes any sense to me is that he's lived through this a couple of times before, like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

#177. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 6, 2009 11:47 AM

@173, re Ji Yeon. Something must be up with her. Widmore has her, or she is dead, or she travelled back in time, had a transgender operation, and goes through life under the name of Pierre Chang... I don't know what, but something's up with her.

@173, re Miles: Perhaps he was very young when he left the island?

@173, re Rousseau and Jin: This reminds me of Desmond not remembering Daniel. They acknowledged in last week's episode that it was not clear why that happened when it happened. Hope they will follow up on this. This bothers me more than how Jin got to be in the radius of the island, since it really interferes with the flow of the narrative, imo.

@173, re Little Prince: In what labels and stuff did the name turn up?

@174: The best explanation (which really isn't one) I've read so far is that there is some, as yet unseen, future event on the Island which includes the O6 and fate or the universe or somesuch is 'course correcting' to get this event to happen again. Time travel is interfering with it. Although I have to wonder why Jacob ordered Locke to move the Island, if this is so dangerous. Didn't Jacob know about the dangerous consequences or did he think Keamy and co were even more dangerous?

@175: Could it be Sawyer didn't see smoke rising from the Island, because the smoke was in the air, as was the helicopter, and so it didn't travel with the Island through time, but the freighter itself, which was in the water, did travel with the Island, as did Jin?


TPTB seem to be reading this blog as well:
Ajira= Answer: Jughead Is Radiating A-bomb

#178. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 6, 2009 12:35 PM

If Jin and Rousseau met in the past then why wouldn't they have remembered each other when they met again in the future?
→ 61. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL
Jin doesn't recognize her because he hasn't met her yet (in 2004).
→ 62. Posted by: PiecesofArzt

I think you don't remember/recognize/know something from a time traveler until the moment they tell you. So If Rousseau were still alive, and jumping with the losties, at the end of the show last night she would suddenly say you know, we saved a guy in the water when we crashed here and it was Jin.....Like Desmond remembering what Faraday asked him to do.

******************************************
64. Posted by: Chunky
I like your theory of how Jin got to the island. I will accept it.

*********************************************
65. Posted by: welh.
We were also told that you need a "constant" in both time periods (present and your time jump) to avoid the Minkowski effect. In 1954 jump, Faraday himself should have been fountain bleeding from his ears since in 1954, Desmond, his "constant" was not even born. Besides, aren't your fellow survivors your "constants" when your group zoomed in and out of time? They have a stronger "connection" between themselves than Desmond-Faraday's one day meeting at Oxford.

But I think you have to Contact your Constant to make it work. Don't know why, must be in the fine print.

***********************************************
I foget who posted this. Sorry.
(1) Canton-Rainier (the carpet company on the side of Ben's van) is an ANAGRAM for REINCARNATION.

Good catch, I couldn't even read what it said.

(2) Is Abigail Spencer (the sister of Farady's old girlfriend) the same person as the deli lady that Ben meets with regarding putting Locke into deep freeze? I think so, but have not looked up screen shots (yet).

I think so too.

(3) Even if Sun aims her gun at Ben and pulls the trigger, I doubt the island will allow him to die.

Good point
##########################################
→ 141. Posted by: Lostfan2009

Don't know if this has been brought up yet but isn't the reason for the nose bleeds a lack of a constant??The only three without a constant are Charlotte Miles and Juliet. The O6 need to come back to be their constants.

I think you need to contact someone who is important to you.
*****************************************************************
144. Posted by: babush
Thanks for the Trans
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

→ 154. Posted by: Cecil Rose
I can't, I can't I can't pick up another TV show.........ARRRGGGHHHHH

****************************************
→ 156. Posted by: Cecil Rose
The Frenchies are from Dec 2004/Jan 2005 and pick up Jin2 OUTSIDE the zone, then carry him (and themselves) into it where the time fluxes do their thing.

I think the frenchies were in their right time. And I think Jin was in his right time floating in the sea after the boat blew up. I think he was floating like the Doc did and Desmond trying to leave did, and the rafties did when they tried to leave, and just wound up in the islands grasp again.
And now is jumping with the rest of the island.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

My porblem with this whole thing - And i am willing to suspend my belief a lot. Is that if the longer you are on the island the more you are effected by timedispplcamentitis, why did Minkowski and the the girl who jumped ship have a problem? Does it make a dif if you are actually on the island?

#179. Posted by: berkyo at February 6, 2009 12:57 PM

When did Jacob order Ben to move the island?

I also believe that Jin went back 16 years to meet up with Danielle because of the age of Jin and the age of Danielle. I don't think the young Danielle is moving through time.

I'm also feeling that the Dharma people that were off the island at the time of the purge have changed their names and are in hiding. I think Ben's out to kill everyone connected to the island before he took over. Just who were all these people that Sayid was killing anyway and why? Did I miss that somewhere. And I'm sure it's Ben that's trying to capture Sayid because he knows that Sayid won't listen to him anymore.

Also, maybe the 70 hour window is not to go back to the island but that something big is going to happen on the island. Like nose bleeds maybe.

#180. Posted by: pebspostal at February 6, 2009 1:03 PM

If both Ben and Locke have blamed the island’s disappearance on the departure of the 06 (I don’t recall exactly where and to whom they have said that), could it be their way of luring the 06 back, ie making them THINK it’s their fault? I only recall Ben saying that the only way to save the rest of the survivors was for the 06 to return. And the 06 do not include Frank and Des.

-177 ransom: Great thought about Ben having lived through this before. So that begs the question: what is he trying to change? The killing of Alex, perhaps?

What’s more intriguing to me is the fact that Ben’s character was originally hired for only a few episodes, but TPTB really liked him and made him a major force in the series. While the rest of us are trying to solve the mysteries of this show, TPTB are time-traveling by the seats of their pants. All to our delight, I might add.

#181. Posted by: lovelost at February 6, 2009 1:06 PM

@178 i think you nailed it in response to 175: whatever is in the air is not affected, what is in the water is. smoke and chopper stay while rafters/sawyer/jin/debris move in time. i think the radius is bigger than we/daniel thought it was. did anyone read anything on the debris they found? was it frieghter junk?

#182. Posted by: flegma at February 6, 2009 1:35 PM

-379 ealgumby from last week
-86 my post above
Just today I read your post from last week re: Faraday's tie. I imagine we're not the only ones who deemed it Cindy's scarf reincarnated. Long live Scarftie!

#183. Posted by: lovelost at February 6, 2009 1:50 PM

179--berkyo
This would seem to confirm that the island has not physically moved but is only moving through time. The island seemed to have vanished because it was moving through time. But it was still there.
The freighter smoke vanished from view of the island because it was still outside the radius of the island's temporal effect. Jin floated into the time rift and now he's jumping with everyone else.
If the 06 on the chopper kept going toward where the island had been then they might have been pulled into the rift too and ended up back on island.
I don't know though. Why is it so hard to get back there now then? Did the rift only last for a matter of time while Jin floated into it? The the Enterprise piggybacking the Borg's temporal rift back to the past in First contact? Is the rift gone now not to open up yet for 70 hours?
And if the island is still physically there but invisible, why the wake of waves rushing in when it disappeared?
God I need a Dharma Beer!

#184. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 6, 2009 2:02 PM

**great review mac, as always**

i think clair's mum was/is in town for another reason, who travels across the ocean for a check when, as has already been mention, the funds can be wired.

did anyone catch the part where locke is holding some sort of rope looking thingy and said it belonged to vincent? i'm almost positive that's what i heard but no one has mentioned it. so did they jump to the future or the past? wasnt vincent on flight 815 when is crashed?? hhmmmmm???

will we ever find out who the "economist" is and how they come into play with knowing about the island and everything else that comes with knowing??

looking forward to cecil's survivor review, hopefully i can squeeze it in with lost. :)

#185. Posted by: tiffani at February 6, 2009 2:17 PM

I rewatched the portion of last season where the island vanished. Sawyer jumped out of the copter before it reached the freighter. The copter landed on the freighter and began to refuel, when the O6 were quickly rounded up because of the bomb. It was only a few minutes before the copter left the freighter when the boat blew up. Then the copter headed back toward the island, on a low approach just above the water. Sawyer had returned to the beach to see the freighter smoke.

Sawyer, Faraday's zodiac and the helicopter all heard the "noise" just prior to the flash. From the zodiac's perspective, it appears they are farther away from the island than the perspective of the helicopter (we see a view through the front of the copter, which is below the highest elevation of the island). Sawyer, the Zodiac and helicopter have the same light intensity and reaction when the flash occurs.

From what I have seen, I believe the zodiac and helicopter people should have been treated the same: either with the island radius when it jumped or left outside.

#186. Posted by: welh at February 6, 2009 2:43 PM

I, too was late watching but would like to throw in my two cents.

What if it really was the fact that the 06 left that caused the island to start skipping in time? What if Ben turning the FDW did something else... something we haven't found out about yet? Two separate causes with two seperate effects??

LostedIt - I have also been frustrated with nobody answering questions or finishing their conversations. It seems that they're all walking through the jungle and someone asks a pointed question, but then there's some distraction and they never finish talking about it.

As for grabbing someone by the scruff and demanding answers, I think Juliet is the one who knows MUCH more than she is telling. Someone needs to sit her down and make her answer some questions.

Oh and the FOOMs always seem to come at the most inconvenient OR the most opportune moments. e.g. RA can't finish telling John how to leave the island. (bummer) also, the FOOM while the losties are being fired on by unknown attackers in the boat. (convenient)

Also, why is everyone so concerned with explaining "Why doesn't so and so remember meeting so and so??" I mean, if this is their first trip back in time, then in the events they have already experienced (things we've seen) wouldn't be altered by their current time-skipping. For instance, we've already seen Danielle's interaction with the losties. Before (after) they started time-skipping. Once the young Danielle who does meet Jin catches up to the old Danielle, maybe she will remember Jin. And when Daniel Faraday grew up, Mrs. Hawking (Ellie) wouldn't say "You know, I met someone who looked just like my grown son on an island in the south pacific years and years ago. Isn't that odd?"

I know what I'm trying to say but it's so hard to articulate. Argh!!

#187. Posted by: Christin at February 6, 2009 2:43 PM

Besides the anagram REINCARNATION on that van (good catch GatorGal!) , did anyone else think the van was a shout out to the film 12 Monkeys?

In that movie, Bruce communicates with the scientists who sent him back in time by leaving a voice mail on a carpet cleaners answering machine which is eventually found and reassembled in the future.

For anyone who hasn't seen 12 Monkeys , it's an awesome sci-fi flik with time travel that's guaranteed to give you nosebleeds.

#188. Posted by: vacc at February 6, 2009 4:28 PM

Does it really matter if Danielle remembers Jin?
She's dead!

#189. Posted by: AC at February 6, 2009 5:04 PM

They're all dead.
See, S1E1.

#190. Posted by: welh at February 6, 2009 5:39 PM

→ 190. welh:

Now THAT made me laugh... : >

Great review as always, Mac--thanks!

#191. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 6, 2009 6:35 PM

→ 190 welh

Not sure if you're serious or not, but regardless, always thought "your thought" was viable early on. Or are your just referring to those still on the island and not the O6 since they do interact with live souls?

#192. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 6, 2009 6:37 PM

174. Posted by: GatorGal why only the O6? maybe because the others were not on "the list"?? remember the list? what if ben's list consisted of people who were on 815 who he knows are supposed to be on the island in the future because the list was brought back from the future? does that make any kind of sense?

as for jin...when the island vanished from the copter perspective it almost looked like there was a temporary depression in the water where is had been. if jin was close enough to get caught up in the waterfall effect of that depression it could have pulled him close enough to be in range of this island zone, but not close enough to reach shore before the first foom. i guess what i'm saying is that, if that happened, he could have made it to shore and joined sawyer and juliette if there hadn't been another time shift before he got there. is it possible that the shifts are sending different groups on the islands to different time periods at the same time? eg. locke, sawyer et al to 1954, jin the meet up with rousseau's crew and rose/bernard (whom we haven't seen for a bit) to yet another date and time.

#193. Posted by: surefoot at February 6, 2009 6:50 PM

@159 mtncbn asked:

>@154 Survivor blog.
>Shouldn't there be a comments box?

Yes, there certainly should be. I checked that option in the blog software, and there was already one comment registered (by Crispy Seaplanes) and yet, when I browsed to the blog, I didn't see a comemnt block either. Very strange.

However, I hit "refresh" and the second time it came up, the comments box was there, with Crispy's comment. Go figure.

I've written boss-daddy-mac for any suggestions he might have.

Click my name below and try it again, maybe it works now.

#194. Posted by: Cecil at February 6, 2009 7:20 PM

@180 Pebspostal

Jacob did not order Locke to Move the island. Christian Shephard did. That bothered me. Could there be 2 groups/ Christian and Jacob with opposing motives?

Why would Jacob give Christian permission to speak in his name in his cabin? Was he out to lunch?

Thanks for the review Mac and also Cecil last week. We appriciate them.

#195. Posted by: SamFin at February 6, 2009 9:34 PM

@187, re: Why the concern with people remembering meeting?

Because, at least according to Daniel, in the Lost version of time travel there is only one timeline in which you cannot change the past. If 1986-Rousseau met 2005-Jin back in 1986 then that's what happened. And that has always been what happened. So one would think that 2004-Rousseau would remember that. 2004-Jin would of course not remember that, since it happened to 2005-Jin.

Now they might try to explain it away via the Red Pain related memory losses, but since Rousseau was not the one time travelling, I don't see how.

#196. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 6, 2009 11:03 PM

GRAA Mac! I too miss your old long posts, but totally get why you can't do that anymore.

Has everybody explored the Ajira Airways website. It is really cool. Lots of info in there...

They say that you can choose a 'Destination Destiny' trip. This is described as being "whisked away to an unknown fateful destination of your destiny". Sound like anywhere we know???...

Another cool thing: They give a sample boarding pass. In another area, on the island adventures description, they suggest that if you get bored you practice some oragami with..say, your boarding pass. They even give you folding instructions. This is supposed to make an oragami box and if you look inside you will see something written inside. I haven't tried it yet... has anybody else??

to Ransom..

I thought it was facinating what you said about the source code, but don't have a clue how to do what you said. How can you get to the source code?

Keep up the great work guys. Your commentary is always fun and thought provoking.

#197. Posted by: Lost in ca at February 6, 2009 11:18 PM

@ 192/Islandhopper

My immediate reaction/theory after the Pilot (S1) was that the survivors had fallen into purgatory, and that the show was about the trials, judgments and redemption of these lost souls.
However, this theory was immediately debunked by TPTB. The producers also said that the show was not about:
* Aliens
* Clones
* Dinosaurs
* Dreamworld/All Inside Someone's Head
* Nanobots
* Purgatory
* Reality TV (gone haywire?)
* Time Travel

Whoops, the last one has now done a 180; S5 is all about time travel.
So I guess everything is back on the table. And considering that there have been numerous hammer to the forehead statements that the 815ers were dead (Naomi parachutes into the island and says they are all dead; Locke's father comes to the island, says they are all dead and that this place is hell.)

#198. Posted by: welh at February 7, 2009 10:33 AM

I just rewatched and noticed something with the Frenchies. When unloading the raft, one of the Frenchies is deliberately spilling water out of a violin case, or some other instrument. The Hydra code that Charlie punched into the computer was programmed by a musician, right? Could this be the programmer?

#199. Posted by: PeterIsLost at February 7, 2009 11:00 AM

@199 PeterIsLost

I noticed that too the first time I watched. That one detail was shown quickly, but not without reason, I believe. That is an interesting theory...could be the musician that entered the numbers. However, the song that was entered could be a factor. Wasn't it "Good Vibrations" or something like that? I can't remember exactly. Would a Frenchman have used the notes to an American song? again...was it "Good

#200. Posted by: boodle at February 7, 2009 1:03 PM

@198/welh:

Yeah, hard to explain "There isn't any time travel" (tinyurl.com/2utscc) away now, isn't it?

Lostpedia tries hard with "The 'no time travel' statement was in response to a theory that Oceanic 815 traveled back in time when it crashed on the Island. At that point in the series and in response to that specific question, none of the Losties had traveled in time. It did not mean 'there will never be time travel.'" (tinyurl.com/dzjrng) Yeah, keep believing that!

Basically, I think it points to the show being MUCH more "made-up-along-the-way" than many fans would like to hear/admit. Consider these early production quotes:

"I liken it to taking a road trip from Los Angeles to New York. We know we're going to visit the Grand Canyon, we know we're going to stop in Omaha, we know we're going to Wall Drug in South Dakota. The route we take between these landmarks is what we make up as we go along," Cuse says. "And those landmarks are the answers to the mysteries." (tinyurl.com/5yzya, Feb 2005)

"We never promised that there would be a unified-field theory of 'Lost'," says Damon Lindelof, who created the show with J. J. Abrams. "You'll get many small answers along the way, and ultimately you will understand this island, but all those answers might not necessarily be reduced to a simple one-sentence explanation." (tinyurl.com/clcpa4, May 2006)

More than ever, I think they are writing even more on-the-fly than these quotes indicate. I posted my "stub theory" of Lost script writing on the Lost Random Topic Thread: Spring '08 Edition (#95) (tinyurl.com/6k4q9v, Jun 2008), and firmly believe this has lead to such a blatant inconsistency; apparently they decided to skip Omaha and Wall Drug along the way, but I'll still grant them beginning in LA and ending in NY. I also think it's quite clever how they have everyone believing "the plan was always to stop in St. Louis," when all they had was a plan to stop that day, and it was originally the Omaha stop. Okay, sorry for the metaphorical digression, but hopefully you get my point! I do NOT think the writers had Jughead in mind when Sayid was crawling through the bowels of the Swan station ... if you add enough obscure detail along the way, it's just not that difficult to "link" pieces of otherwise-detritus together into seemingly significant evidence of forethought ... BS!

In short, JJ + D&C may (and I emphasize MAY) have actually had plot points alpha and omega in mind when they started, which have not changed, but I think EVERYTHING in between has been up for grabs. Throw in countless plot details and camera focusing in on objects along the way, and they can pick and choose the 10% they need to string the plot along ... viewers will conveniently forget/disregard the other 90% if never referenced again. Better yet, they can bring up 50% of the red herring references more than once just to obfuscate the "real" plot, and make it seem like the writing is a much more complex web of intricately-related details than it truly is. I mean, these guys ARE showmen, and we're being treated to somewhat of a prestidigitation/mentalist exposition here! I have (more or less) resolved to be fine with that and enjoy the show, but if the "trick" is obvious, I'll surely point it out as well!

That being said ... consider this Damon quote from 2005: "I promise you: The next time you see a dead body, that person's going to stay dead." Locke anyone? Who wants to bet Damon's admonition will be quietly swept under the rug, to join the "no time travel" quip? Oh, I know, many will say "but Locke's not dead, he's just paralyzed by Medusa spider tetrodotoxin!" Yeah, whatever ...

Bottom line ... it's not Ben who's the unreliable narrator ... it's D&C!

#201. Posted by: ealgumby at February 7, 2009 1:13 PM

BTW ... just now completely reread my LRTT S08 Ed post #95, and had to chuckle when I mentioned little Locke's book and baseball glove being or not being ever referenced again in a future epi as a case in point.

Good one D&C! It almost seems like they picked the compass just to rub my nose in it. Hmm ... maybe that's why the prop department couldn't produce the same one little Locke had for this season's RA/Locke exchange ... the compass wasn't supposed to be reappear, until ... ;)

#202. Posted by: ealgumby at February 7, 2009 1:56 PM

snore...

SNORE!..

snore...

web - site - dying...

web - site - dead...

aaaargghhh!

MIL !

#203. Posted by: Bobola at February 7, 2009 6:26 PM

@ 197 Lost in ca:

Re. the source code...when you get to the Ajira website, navigate around to the various destination pages, and then depending upon your browser window, either click View then View Source, or like in my browser click Page then View source.

Once you get to the Source Code look for "HEX" followed by what looks like a bunch of gobbledegook. Copy and paste that junk into a Hexadecimal Translator (Google).

#204. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 7, 2009 10:22 PM

Another link to the book "The little prince" can be the fact that the little prince, in order to go back to his asteroid (in the book he is visiting the earth), needs to die. The same thing happens with Locke, regarding his comeback to the island.
In the case of the little prince, he asks a snake to kill him because otherwise the "traveling" can't be done, his body is too heavy or something like that.


Regarding Jin1, the only way it could be him is that the french people arrive in 2004/5 (which I think it's too much of a complication, but who knows), otherwise he couldn't be time traveling.


I agree with ealgumby's post 201: D&C make us think some details were meant for a reason but they actually give the meaning once they figure it out. That's not a bad thing, though, it shows their skills as writers.

#205. Posted by: Julia at February 7, 2009 11:06 PM

204
the hex is a quote from joyce's 'ulysses'. i did a little diggin and it turns out s05 ep7 will be titled '316'. the quote happens to be on page 316 of the 'modern library edition' of 'ulysses'.(luckily have a copy) ben is supposedly reading the novel in the episode. i read this many moons ago and had a copy on hand. this quote takes place in the tavern scene that is related to the meeting of the cyclops in odysseus work. during this meeting in the pub with the 'cyclops/citizen' they talk of gealic sport, mentioning 'hurley' aka hurling. there is way too much to read into this, and just reading 'ulysses' gave me nose bleeds. i hope all you superliterary folk can run with this.
interesting little nugget abc has given us with this ajira stuff.
good pick up on the hex ransomack! sure you don't work for abc?????

#206. Posted by: flegma at February 7, 2009 11:53 PM

one of the hex codes was joyce. there are others to be found.

#207. Posted by: flegma at February 8, 2009 12:03 AM

oh snap! the hexcode on the main page is from john 3:16. sneaky bastards.

#208. Posted by: flegma at February 8, 2009 12:13 AM

@197 Lost in ca asked:

>I thought it was facinating what you said about the source code, but don't have a clue how to do what you said. How can you get to the source code?

In Internet Explorer it's as simple as clicking "View", then "Source". I'm sure other browsers have equally easy methods. What you'll usually see when you do this is raw html code for creating the page, but frequently during the "Lost Experience" ARG clues would be embedded there as comments, and so, apparently, also in the Ajira site.

o------

@201 ealgumby:

Shhhhh. You're peeking behind the curtain.


o------

@205. Julia demonstrated great recall in revealing:

>In the case of the little prince, he asks a snake to kill him because otherwise the "traveling" can't be done, his body is too heavy or something like that.

Ooooh, really great catch, and I'd forgotten that despite being a big St. Exupery fan. So Locke is the Little Prince?

o------

@206 flegma posted:

>the hex is a quote from joyce's 'ulysses'. i did a little diggin and it turns out s05 ep7 will be titled '316'. the quote happens to be on page 316 of the 'modern library edition' of 'ulysses'.(luckily have a copy)...

The erudition present on this blog never ceases to amaze me.

#209. Posted by: Cecil at February 8, 2009 4:31 AM

Thanks Cecil. I guess Locke is the little prince and the O6 are somehow Saint Exupery carrying him dead. How sad is that part of the book...

Another 2 points (stupid ones):
-For the people (Clementine, I think?) worrying about Daniel's shirt with blood stains, I'm sure the rain washed it. Blood comes out easily with cold water :)

-How annoying it must be to Juliet that every man she approaches is all stupid-in-love with Kate! first Jack, now Sawyer. Hopefully she'll revert the situation this time, hehe.

#210. Posted by: Juila at February 8, 2009 8:15 AM

2 mistakes I made:
-I'm Julia, not Juila! lucky me.
-and Saint Exupery doesn't carry him dead, he just watches him die. However, I do recall him carrying the little prince, it must be another part of the book.

#211. Posted by: Julia at February 8, 2009 8:24 AM

Not home yet. In a hotel business room in Williamsburg Virginia, looking forward to scanning all the blog this evening. However I did go to the AJIRA website and noticed that there was a rolling screen of locations with current temperatures. One was for AMES, IOWA.

Isn't that one of the places during Season one that the Oceanic Airlines billboards showed up around the country?

I'm anxious to read what everybody has to say about the episode. I thought it was a bit slow all night until the french team and Jin showed up. (But what do I know?) Catching a plane. Write later.

#212. Posted by: davidrh at February 8, 2009 8:42 AM

The Little Prince, Ulysses, and Hexadecimals, Oh My!

tinyurl.com/ab4uzb

#213. Posted by: Clementine at February 8, 2009 9:47 AM

→ 184. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
Did the rift only last for a matter of time while Jin floated into it? The the Enterprise piggybacking the Borg's temporal rift back to the past in First contact? Is the rift gone now not to open up yet for 70 hours?

Yes, I think this correct.(but what do I Know????) I think the bursts of electro magnetism open time and space rifts and make the island accessible.
You know, the O6 Ben and Eloise and her pendulum/eventrecording pc are ahead of time in relation to the island's present - I think. Because Ben left the island and wound up ahead in the future. So maybe they know about another event on the island - Locke's leaving? - Before Locke leaves and are trying to get back in the time rift that that event will/has caused.

And that would be 70 hours from now.

I am pretty sure from what we have been told and seen that the island moves in time AND space which I am perfectly willing to accept. Or else gets moved OUT of time and space therefore nobody ages in those times, which I find a lot harder to swallow.

#214. Posted by: berkyo at February 8, 2009 10:46 AM

@214/berkyo:

Just a couple quick comments on this ...

Returning to my "the numbers represent years between skips" theory, I think the following:

(1) The island can only be "found" externally within certain "event windows" which occur at intervals of "the numbers" relative to the current date (2008).
(2) Therefore, we see people "finding" the island in 2004(Flt 815), 1996(Des), 1988(Rousseau), 1954(US Army) ... the numbers are related to when the event windows are open.
(2a) Once the island has been "found," one can leave/return along the "specified course" (i.e., the old 305 thing) ... kinda hokey I know, but all of this is!
(3) The current event window, in 2008, will end in 70 hours ... hence the rush to get to the island before then.
(4) A while back I presented a theory that "true" time travel into the future could not happen without loss of free will ... just to and fro along the timeline which had already past. I still think this is not disproven within Lost to date ... we've never seen anyone jump forward in time beyond 2008, just back and forth by intervals of years equal to "one of the numbers" relative to 2008.
(5) The island cannot truly be "out of time" because there would be no passage of time on the island at all then, not just lack of aging. In other words, Newton's apple falls from the tree due to gravitational acceleration, but acceleration is a function of time, and if time does not exist, the apple doesn't fall ... there can be no causality, by default, without time. That being said, I will not promise the writers haven't gone that way to "simplify" things, but I'd guess (hope) not.

#215. Posted by: ealgumby at February 8, 2009 11:18 AM

→ 187. Posted by: Christin
Once the young Danielle who does meet Jin catches up to the old Danielle, maybe she will remember Jin. And when Daniel Faraday grew up, Mrs. Hawking (Ellie) wouldn't say "You know, I met someone who looked just like my grown son on an island in the south pacific years and years ago. Isn't that odd?"

I know what I'm trying to say but it's so hard to articulate. Argh!!

Right! But did you mean to say WOULD instead of wouldn't? I think you don't remember everything SINCE the event of wrong time experiences, but remember it all of a sudden. Like something you forgot. This is soooo hard to think about.
===================================

→ 188. Posted by: vacc 12 Monkeys
And I had to watch it 3 or 4 times really understand what happened, So I will have plenty to do when Lost ends watching the whole 6 seasons 3 or 4 times.
============================

→ 195. Posted by: SamFin
Jacob did not order Locke to Move the island. Christian Shephard did. That bothered me. Could there be 2 groups/ Christian and Jacob with opposing motives? Why would Jacob give Christian permission to speak in his name in his cabin? Was he out to lunch?

This bothered me too. I suspect that Christan, Clair and other dead types are not good.
If I assume that Jacob is good. A prisoner of the islands would be possessors

++++++++++++++++++→
196. Posted by: Plain Simple Re the time travel thingee.

I really think it could work if you accept that there are NO changes possible to the past. Desmond
"suddenly" remembered that Faraday told him something a long time ago - because it had not happened until that very moment he remembered.
--------------------------
→ 199. Posted by: PeterIsLost
The Hydra code that Charlie punched into the computer was programmed by a musician, right? Could this be the programmer?

AHA! Good One!
=====================
201. Posted by: ealgumby

We know they did not plan anything that first season,and I think they have moved along with each season just keeping far enough ahead of us to look clever. But I do credit them for going back and looking at the previous seasons and incorporating enough events to make me believe that they knew what they were doing.

#216. Posted by: berkyo at February 8, 2009 11:31 AM

I posted this up further and am still mulling over.

This from Lostpedia's site
"Theresa was Boone's childhood nanny. Boone loved to torment her by calling her up the stairs all day. One day, when Boone was 6, she fell down the stairs and broke her neck. Boone felt responsible for this. It is not known whether the fall killed her. ("Deus Ex Machina")
In his dream, Locke sees Boone repeating, "Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs," before Boone told him this story. It is this revelation that leads Boone to believe Locke's dream is more than just a dream. "

So, I am the only one who thinks that maybe Theresa could be the one in the bed? They could have named this woman anything but they chose Theresa. Red Herring? Any other connections?

Falling up the stairs and down the stairs could be time going backwards and forwards.
---------------------------------------
Lostpedia says this about the new Theresa
"Theresa Spencer was an acquaintance of Daniel Faraday at Oxford University during the physics professor's brief tenure there researching temporal displacement. Little is known about Faraday and Theresa's relationship, but they were seen together in the photograph of the two on the Oxford University campus.
Whether Theresa was a research assistant or an experimental subject, she eventually succumbed to the effects of temporal displacement and, though she survived (unlike the rat Eloise and George Minkowski), she was chronically affected and became an invalid, requiring constant home care by her sister, Abigail Spencer, and a nurse. During her occasional moments of lucidity, she describes being a young child or having just been with relatives long deceased. Having previously funded Faraday's research, Charles Widmore financially provides for Theresa's care.
Because of what happened to Theresa, Faraday fled Oxford for the United States, and the university expunged any reference to him from their records.
Trivia
* In the casting call she was described as "Female, 30s, British, blonde. Pretty suffers from dementia but also has short periods of complete lucidity."
Unanswered questions
* What was Theresa's relationship to Daniel Faraday?
* What did Daniel Faraday do to Theresa to make her an invalid?
* Why wasn't Theresa killed by the effects of temporal displacement?
* Is this the same Theresa that was Boone's nanny mentioned in Deus Ex Machina?

#217. Posted by: berkyo at February 8, 2009 12:01 PM

@205/Julia:
@209/Cecil:
@213/Clementine:

Locke as The Little Prince makes sense in that context. Aside from "dying to return home," Locke has also always been the man of faith, not hard science/numbers, and I can totally see him say something like "One cannot see well except with the heart. The essential is invisible to the eyes." Also, the island itself has become Locke's rose ... "It is the time you have spent with your rose that makes your rose so important."

So ... is Locke also the John 3:16 ref then? Locke as Little Prince, okay ... Locke as Jesus though? Anyway, who is "God" supposed to be a reference to in that context? Locke's dad? Wow, I hope not! Anyone else a "one and only son" to possibly be sacrificed for the world? Jack? Aaron? Daniel? Richard (is he Jacob's son perhaps?)? I dunno ...

Which brings me to my next point ... anyone ever heard of "Secrets of the Alchemist Dar?" It's an "armchair treasure hunt" book by Michael Stadther, released in Sep 2006, as a follow up to "A Treasure's Trove" (there are wiki entries for all of these if you're curious). Anyway, SotAD is supposed to contain hidden clues to the locations of 100 rings, which can be redeemed by the publisher for $20k each ("A Treasure's Trove" had twelve hidden tokens, redeemed for bejeweled golden sculptures of various values up to $50k ... all tokens were found, and all prizes redeemed). Apparently, once people began to get "the secret" behind ATT, the tokens were all found very quickly, so Mr. Stadther made the hidden clues in SotAD damned near impossible to solve, and to date no one (to my knowledge) has ever solved/found one of the rings, if they even still exist. You see, in late 2007/early 2008, Stadther shut down the web site for both books, and "the hunt" was "temporarily" called off, due to being sued by his publisher (supposedly due to weaker than expected book sales, possibly because the puzzles were just too damned hard to solve, and people lost interest).

There are still quite a number of SotAD web sites/blogs/forums out there ... not unlike Lost. Got me to thinking ... are we all not somewhat like the SotAD peeps, searching fruitlessly for solutions that never seem to come? D&C might take a lesson from this ... Stadther made his puzzles far too dense in SotAD, and he lost his core audience (the relatively few "hardcore" fans won't pay the bills). I think Lost may also have crossed that threshold ... or at least come dangerously close to it!

I know (do I really though?) that as Lost fans, we do not face the same fate as the poor SotAD saps ... can you imagine if Lost were suddenly cancelled tomorrow, all refs to it on abc.com disappeared, and D&C never gave a public explanation of what was supposed to happen on the show? Damn, I feel for the devoted SotAD fans (and no, I'm not one of them, thank God!), who similarly had the rug yanked out from under them.

Then again, back to The Little Prince: "It is the time you have spent with your rose that makes your rose so important." The lucky ones among us have significant others and/or children as roses, but some do not, and even those who do can have more than one special rose in the garden. Hopefully, we all have at least one rose to tend. For many of the SotAD fans, the book/puzzles/community/hunt was a rose, exclusive or not. Even in the wake of SotAD, for those who cared for it as a rose, it still may carry importance ... the time spent on it should mean something in the long run, besides bitterness, right? Maybe the solution to those SotAD puzzles, the numbers so to speak, are ultimately less important than the time spent trying "to tame" the book, and the people that time was spent with.

I know, I'm rambling ... just something to think of as the very last epi of Lost creeps ever closer. We may not all be happy with the "answers" we receive between now and then, and perhaps when all is said and done, many will feel cheated ala Sopranos fans.

I say, Lost is a rose ... it is important only because of the time we spend enjoying it now. All the theories suggested along the way may prove to be wrong, all the details merely red herrings. You know what? Who cares ... eventually, this will be true: we got from LA to NY, somehow ... and had some fun times along the way.

Ahem ... now that I've gotten all of my warm and fuzzy thoughts out of the way, the next epi better have some more details/puzzles to ponder! ;)

#218. Posted by: ealgumby at February 8, 2009 12:20 PM

I have a couple of questions that I haven't seen addressed yet.

The first is this: Who do Daniel Faraday and his mother actually work for? We know that Faraday's research was funded for a decade by Widmore, and we know that he is a part of Widmore's expedition to the island. Then we see that Widmore knows exactly where Faraday's mother is and gives that information to Desmond. However, in a previous episode we have seen Faraday's mother working closely with Ben, and there has been no indicaion of a rift between Faraday and his mother, so why are they working with opposing teams? Of course, this all assumes that the prevailing theory that Eloise Hawking is Daniel Faraday's mother is correct.

Second, I think we all jumped to the conclusion that the baby in Danielle Rousseau's belly is Alex. But a question that has always bothered me is this: Rousseau calls her baby Alex. Ben calls his daughter Alex. But we are led to believe that Alex was taken as an infant, and that Danielle never knew Ben. How did he know the baby's name was Alex? Maybe this is just one of those little inconsistencies that I've let get to me, but what if that baby in her belly isn't Alex. I'm thinking about Charlotte having been on the island in the past and a possible connection, but I can't quite make it work. Any thoughts?

#219. Posted by: nancyintexas at February 8, 2009 12:25 PM

I thought I'd already posted, but maybe I just thought about posting and....

Has anyone ever considered that possibly none of this makes sense? That's why we can't figure it all out. It's just random bits of story strung together lightly by something or other. When a few pieces fit together it's merely accidental. So brilliant that it actually isn't brilliant at all. Hmmm....something to think about.

#220. Posted by: meg at February 8, 2009 2:42 PM

@218 ealgumby pontificated:

>I say, Lost is a rose ...

And this Rose is lost.

o------

@219 nancyintexas asked:

>But we are led to believe that Alex was taken as an infant, and that Danielle never knew Ben. How did he know the baby's name was Alex?

Maybe baby-Alex had a little "Alex" bracelet.

#221. Posted by: Cecil at February 8, 2009 2:57 PM

Remember that the Others know everything. They had their long lists with names all along. It isn't that odd that they would know the babies name.

#222. Posted by: meg...the FIRST MIF at February 8, 2009 3:27 PM

It looked like Claire's mom had split ends when we first saw her, and then the second time it appeared healthy. Suppose she was in a time warp as well?? Or, have I just tied Cindy's scarf too tightly tonight.

#223. Posted by: meg....dmib at February 8, 2009 7:26 PM

First time poster, yet fan from the start. Here's my thoughts on the whole AJIRA issue.

I did the origami ball with the fake boarding pass. Looked into the hole in the ball and I see GUM (gumball anyone?). I took a picture here: http://tinyurl.com/c6e794. Turns out GUM is the International Air Transport Association airport code for Guam International Airport.

The full name of Guam International Airport is Antonio B. Won Pat International Airport. Anyone notice Antonio B. posted the descriptions on the Ajira Advantures page?

Also, if you look at the source of the About Ajira page, you'll see the phrase WHERE AMERICA'S DAY BEGINS. This is the motto for the Territory of Guam.

Finally, and this may not mean anything, but on the Flights page the weather cycles through all of Ajira's destinations, EXCEPT for Guam. And the times apparently never change.

I don't know what it all means, but it looks like someone has a Guam fetish going on here.

#224. Posted by: ITB at February 8, 2009 10:23 PM

re: my comment
@111 in Jughead

>TPTB have worked in early comments from way back. I'm not sure whether they put them in way back knowing were they where going, or reverse engineered them in later.

I think the latter, as noted by numerous posters lately.

The wonders of modern computing. I now have ALL of lost on one pocket sized USB harddrive (45Gb of 250Gb). I can quickly and easily revisit any episode!!

#225. Posted by: mtncbn at February 8, 2009 10:41 PM

@224/ITB: "Looked into the hole in the ball and I see GUM"

Actually, the next two letters are "B-Y" ... ;)

#226. Posted by: ealgumby at February 8, 2009 10:43 PM

More Guam/Ajira related info.

On the Ajira website, in the backgound and on the left there is a map on the in flight TV. It appears to be a map showing the location of Guam. Check it out here: http://tinyurl.com/d39z9x.

#227. Posted by: ITB at February 8, 2009 10:48 PM

I think LOST HAD(past tense) a super ground breaking break through in television programming. Network pressure and the desire to bring in new viewers has diluted it badly. There is no other series that I follow like this one.

The minute detail analysis necessary to follow it has disappeared. No need for blogs and frame by frame dissection. Key components of the LOST following.

If the TPTB are listening, play to the core group that made you famous, screw the newcomers(unless they are willing to watch 90 hours of history to get up to speed).

TPTB are forgiven for early oopses ie-no time travel - they new not where they where going. The plan to make it a six year show, phenomenal. A model for future programming.

I have vented, I feel better.

#228. Posted by: mtncbn at February 9, 2009 1:25 AM

@206-207-208: Great catches flegma!

#229. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 9, 2009 1:25 AM

Anyone read the Lost article in Entertainment Weekly?
Basically they've said they're taking the show where they want to take it and not worried about attracting newcomers.

The pictures included are interesting--among them one of Jack, Kate and Hurley wearing leis and standing infront of some very new looking Dharma buses as if they are new Dharma recruits being greeted upon arrival aboard the sub. Looks like the 06 might get to time travel a bit as well.

They also said that last season once everyone is back together on the island will be more like the first with character driven episodes and a return to the old flashback/flashforward formats.

#230. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 9, 2009 8:57 AM

@218: ealgumby - "Lost is a rose..."

Beautifully said! I've got to agree that most of the enjoyment we all get from this show is the debates over what each detail on the show means and where things are going. When the last episode has finally come to pass (blasphemy!) and there is nothing left to watch, we're all inevitably going to go our own ways in life (mostly, I'd hope we could all find a way to stay in touch but life is what it is - we can only hope to try). It is the living through this show together and the conversations that we share that is the true joy, the true legacy that this show will leave us. We all have our varying opinions about each episode and what each detail means but the detail that slips by us is how much we are a community here and how much fun we're all having together watching these episodes and talking about them ad infinitum each week.

It is one of my great enjoyments to participate here and be a part of such a smart and spunky group of people. My hats off to all of you.

#231. Posted by: LostedIt at February 9, 2009 10:04 AM

→ 220. Posted by: meg
Has anyone ever considered that possibly none of this makes sense? .

Your telling us????LOL
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

→ 225. Posted by: mtncbn
I now have ALL of lost on one pocket sized USB harddrive (45Gb of 250Gb). I can quickly and easily revisit any episode!!

Cool, Can I do that?
Did you copy from the DVDs? Aren't they protected? is there a trick? I didn't try yet. Tell Me? Huh? HUH?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

→ 227. Posted by: ITB
So, I got a seat on the Jan 20th plane and saw the little pics. With this new intro video, I think I should be able to do the same for the Destination unknown flight, right? Any success there? what date? Do we wait till we know the date of the epi that they return? Do we use the same card number? I have tried all kinds of combos and nothing happens.

#232. Posted by: berkyo at February 9, 2009 10:09 AM

Throughout the first four seasons, the narrative device of using "flashbacks" to tell the back stories of characters was fine. Then we had the first "flashforward" which was like skipping ahead to one of last chapters of a book.

Now we have "time skips" that include nosebleeds and present 815ers looking at past events. When Locke met Horace, a nose bleeding Horace told him he was dead 12 years. Then Horace's image and comments skipped and repeated itself several times. I thought the narrative concept at the time that it was a holographic image projected into the scene.

I bring this episode up because in that scene there was no sound or flash which triggers the S5 characters back and forth through time and space. So if TPTB are going to tell us that Horace (and any other ghost for that matter) are actually time skipping before the FDW wa smoved by Ben, then that implies another means of time travel. It is hard enough to explain one mechanism let alone two!

#233. Posted by: welh at February 9, 2009 10:47 AM

i say it again ealgumby you are simply marvelous!! :)

i thought jacob was the one who told locke what he had to do and once locke got to the cabin and saw christian, christian asked locke did he know what he was suppose to do hence locke said, "he wants me to move the island."

#234. Posted by: tiffani at February 9, 2009 12:22 PM

@233 welh
>there was no sound or flash which triggers the S5 characters back and forth
- only the skippers see the flash and hear the sound

@232 berkyo
record the dtv broadcast with an ATSC tuner card in your PC. Edit out commercials, re-encode Divx, and you end up with a .avi file that is about 350MB that will play on PC or newer DVD player. Since season 4, I have HD versions, about 1.1GB. Will only play on PC.
A lot of work, and requires a powerful PC. There are other ways. try my name at gmail if you want more info.

#235. Posted by: mtncbn at February 9, 2009 12:34 PM

@welh/233: "I bring this episode up because in that scene there was no sound or flash which triggers the S5 characters back and forth through time and space."

It seemed to me that only the skippers were aware of the flashes. When Locke was in the tent asking Richard how to get off the island, Locke saw the flash starting and said, "Oh, no." Richard asked, "What's wrong?" and Locke said, "It's about to happen again."

So, maybe Horace was skipping like a needle on a record, and Locke was stationary in time in that episode. I'm curious if the "ghosts" are skippers who have learned to somewhat control their destination.

#236. Posted by: Clementine at February 9, 2009 12:44 PM

201. Posted by: ealgumby at February 7, 2009 1:13 PM

"That being said ... consider this Damon quote from 2005: "I promise you: The next time you see a dead body, that person's going to stay dead." Locke anyone? Who wants to bet Damon's admonition will be quietly swept under the rug, to join the "no time travel" quip? Oh, I know, many will say "but Locke's not dead, he's just paralyzed by Medusa spider tetrodotoxin!" Yeah, whatever ...

Bottom line ... it's not Ben who's the unreliable narrator ... it's D&C!"


Ahhh, but what we DID see in the coffin was John Locke....how can anyone be certain that he was dead? Paralyzed? We saw John in a casket...logically how can anyone assume that he is other than alive?

Len

#237. Posted by: Len at February 9, 2009 12:46 PM

If only those who time skip can sense and see the flash, ok, but then how can someone who died suddenly (Horace) then "skip" 16 years into the future with the retained knowledge of his own death, let alone the fact that he knows he has skipped 16 years to Locke's time?

#238. Posted by: welh at February 9, 2009 1:15 PM

So in the incidents that one of the time-travelers runs into someone that isn't and then they disappear, how do they disappear to the person that is still there? Clementine has already mentioned that they probably don't see the flash of light, but does a person just fade away or is it more of a see them then don't see them kind of thing?

D&C said that individuals will try and test Farraday's statement that you cannot change the future. So far, the only person that's tried to do that is Farraday himself. Lock and Sawyer both had the opportunity to at the very least interject themselves into a past situation and both declined.

@213: Clementine - Very interesting and informative URL! Really makes one think.

So, show of hands, what are the votes on Sun actually shooting someone? I've got a big fat NO to throw into the hat. They're just not going to kill off anyone right now and since they're not on the island there's no miraculous healing to fix things.

So is Aaron the little prince or WAAAAALT or is it someone from Danielles crew on that boat or is there someone else I haven't taken into account? As with all of these hints, it's quite ambiguous (at least to me). I've slowly come to accept that just because something is implied that it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has feathers and webbed feet like a duck doesn't mean it's a duck on Lost. More importantly, I'm ok with that.

So to bring back a very old question, do we have any new theories, knowing everything we now know, about how the food drops are/were arriving on the island? Just a little diversion while we await the next episode.

So about that pendulum from the season premier episodes, are we going to see any more about that or was it just a way to make the whole calculation thing look complicated and mystical?

Nobody responded to one item in my previous posting that I wanted to hear some opinions about so I thought I'd post it again - My thought is that the scene where they're rowing in the double-hull canoe is actually occurring some time in the future beyond the point when the donkey wheel was turned. It could be within the 3 years since or even beyond that. My point is that it would seem that it certainly didn't occur between 2004 and present time. Given that Ajira Airways has got to be a front for some group we may or may not have seen yet (Ben's people, Widmore's people, or some third group?) if it were that easy to get to the island in the past it would have to have been as easy for Widmore to get there as well so my theory is that it has to be in the future. What does everyone think?

#239. Posted by: LostedIt at February 9, 2009 1:26 PM

Plain Simple - 196

Thanks for the explanation. I understand that. I guess I was thinking the Jin/Rousseau encounter would be like the Faraday/Desmond encounter. Desmond "remembered" their meeting years in the future. I was thinking that would be the case with Rousseau, too except she's dead so she can't remember.

Make sense? Thanks again for the reply. :)

#240. Posted by: Christin at February 9, 2009 1:29 PM

@238: welh - you're working under an assumption that the Horace that presents himself to Locke is not just a spirit, an echo of sorts. I don't think the real Horace the human being flash-forwarded in time or mind-projected himself to meet Locke. It was more like a dead person doomed to walk the earth and repeat something over and over. The fact that he knows it's 16 (or I think actually it was 12) years after he died would seem just a part of the global knowledge that constitutes the island and everyone that becomes a part of it than anything more significant. Everyone like that on the island seems to know everything about everyone and everything. Jack's father, even Claire now. They become part of the "Borg collective" so to speak.

#241. Posted by: LostedIt at February 9, 2009 1:34 PM

--239
What about the food drops? If Widmore's been looking for the island for the last 20 years then how was Dharma continuing to drop supplies on a regular basis?

--241
If Horace was a ghost and not a skipper then why was his nose bleeding?

#242. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 9, 2009 1:41 PM

OK. I’m home and I've had a chance to watch the episode all over again and . . I think my original slant on the ep will remain the same. It was a fairly average, much to do about nothing episode.

Well, that's not QUITE right. It was a set-up episode. One thing that excites me is that it obviously is going to set up a ROUSSEAU episode - - finally! - - something we’ve been clamoring for the past two seasons.

And other than Jin’s look of astonishment in the last fadeout, the ep was basically somewhat ho-hum. But I think it’s funny how much positive dialogue from the bloggers this ep has produced. In past seasons when there’s either been a “set-up” episode or one that is deemed “light-weight” - boy have the derogatory statements flown!

This time-jumping act and the nose bleed syndrome are definitely fodder for discussion and speculation this time around. Of course, we all HAD to get serious this week . . . Let’s face it, 390 “jughead identified” postings had to be a record.

Well, unless we bring up “Laffo” again.

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


ah. That helped.

#243. Posted by: davidrh at February 9, 2009 2:10 PM

@ 239 LostedIt
I agree with you - "the scene where they're rowing in the double-hull canoe is actually occurring some time in the future." They found the canoe's at their beach camp site, along with Vincent's very old leash, and the camp looked very old and abandonded. Had to be a future flash IMHO...

Also, you had a great question about the food drops - let's see JJ and D&C explain that one!

More importantly - where have all the bunnies gone??

#244. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 9, 2009 3:07 PM

Bunnylover asks,
Where have all the bunnies gone??
1954.

#245. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 9, 2009 3:47 PM

Bunnies?

I think they're all over on Alcatraz, reproducing like, well, rabbits.

#246. Posted by: Cecil at February 9, 2009 4:50 PM

→ 218. Posted by: ealgumby at February 8, 2009 12:20 PM

Very true. Also, we have to take some responsibilty for the show being drawn out. Tptb must have had a story with a head and a something of a tail, to begin with. How long the body is, depends on the show's success. If we hadn't been running after everything Lost-related like giddy school children (I say this with love), we wouldn't have had to invest in keeping up with a plethora of little story threads, teasers, that are then ignored or sometimes even contradicted later. Not that I'm complaining, on the contrary. The show still captivates me. The writing and acting are pretty strong, most of the time. I enjoy it even more, now that I know when it will end.


However, some random remarks:

I hate that atomic bomb. There are too many bombs/explosions on and around that Island (hatches, submarines, people, ships etc). And now the Big one. It's weak. Plus, there is absolutely no tension for the audience. That bomb ain't gonna blow, so. Hope that doesn't become a major plot point.

Faraday annoys me. His expressions, his exclamation, his tie.

There are/were too many beautiful women on that island. Really, though.

#247. Posted by: Molemangler at February 9, 2009 5:30 PM

I'm almost in the Locke Is the Little Prince camp.

But, what about Aaron? Someone is after his DNA and he's in the back seat of Sun's car on the dock with Ben and 05 of the 06. He was born on the Island. Weren't we led to believe that anyone born on the Island was special? Maybe it really is Aaron (turniphead and all) that Ben & Co. are after.

Staying on that tack: if Alex was actually born on the Island, then she would have been special, also. And that's why Ben abducted her. But then there's that whole he-changed-the-rules-thing. So I think Widmore wants Aaron, too.

Do we know how many other children have actually been born on the Island? That is to say: how many other pregnant women have landed there?

I feel like I'm going in circles. I simply cannot keep it straight. Does anyone else share my paint (sic)?

#248. Posted by: lovelost at February 9, 2009 6:27 PM

235. Posted by: mtncbn

Thanks. I'll give to info to a friend and see if he can help me.

#249. Posted by: berkyo at February 9, 2009 8:38 PM

my theory is that it has to be in the future. What does everyone think?
→ 239. Posted by: LostedIt

I think so too. It is a future jump. And the Ajira bottle seems to indicate they or someone gets there after taking an Ajirs flight. The Ajira site has been intimating that the O6 go to Guam on that airline. So My next thought is that the guys chasing them are the O6 or some of them.

#250. Posted by: berkyo at February 9, 2009 8:49 PM

Lovelost/248 said, "But, what about Aaron?"

If Aaron is THE or A chosen one, wouldn't it be awesome if the skippers encountered him in the future, somehow fulfilling his island destiny?

If the kid does have any special significance, we'll need to see it. They've opened the door to the future, so now it's not good enough to tell us he's the chosen one without showing us how.

#251. Posted by: Clementine at February 9, 2009 9:06 PM

@232, Spoiler about the O6 going back to the Island:

berkyo, I think I read somewhere (ew.com?) that the O6 will return in th 7th or 8th episode of the season. If you look it up, you can figure out the date this episode airs.

@239, LostedIT: In one of my first posts for this episode I speculated that the boats they found on the beach belonged to the returned O6, which means it would be the future. And, like many others, I speculated that the ones shooting at them were actually the O6'ers. Juliet shot one of them. O o...

@240, Christin: You're welcome. :)

@244 and others: Could the food drops be time delayed? Perhaps they're not entering the islands region via the right direction.

@247: "There are/were too many beautiful women on that island. Really, though."

Huh? Are you trying to confuse me even more than Lost itself does? Too many?

#252. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 9, 2009 11:05 PM

@247 Molemangler said:

>I hate that atomic bomb. There are too many bombs/explosions on and around that Island (hatches, submarines, people, ships etc). And now the Big one.

Oh, Lord. I hadn't even thought about this. John Locke, the man who never met an explosive he didn't like

+

multi-megaton-H-bomb = ??????!!!!!!

#253. Posted by: Cecil at February 10, 2009 1:18 AM

New "House" review's up, for anyone interested. Click my name to go there...

#254. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 10, 2009 1:19 AM

Cecil,

Your comment about "John Locke, the man who never met an explosive he didn't like..." got me to thinkin'...well, that and a healthy (?) dose of caffeine.

What if the 70 hour deadline that Mrs. Hawking mentioned to Ben has to do with the O6 (+ Ben) getting back to the island to prevent the bomb from going off, resulting in the island losing its constant and time-skipping forever?

I don't think Faraday is as smart as he thinks he is, and I think Locke would blow it up just to see the pretty colors. I think it's gonna be up to - as usual - Ben to fix what's wrong.

Jack (aka Mr. Fix-it) may be good with spines and splinters and pimples, but H-bombs not so much.

#255. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 10, 2009 8:40 AM

I think the h-bomb is a tepid explanation of what was occurring on the island before the FDW turn. Faraday used radiation on his lab rat to have it mind jump in the future to learn the maze. When Desmond turned the fail safe key, his mind also had future jumps, especially about Charlie's deaths.

However, the FDW turn added the new dimension of moving a person's mind and body through space and time to the equation.

#256. Posted by: welh at February 10, 2009 9:32 AM

@242: Crispy Seaplanes

"What about the food drops? If Widmore's been looking for the island for the last 20 years then how was Dharma continuing to drop supplies on a regular basis?"

I think we as a group had this conversation in a previous season and didn't come to a good roundly-accepted conclusion. One hypothesis is that the food drops were all done in a very short period of time but at different angles towards the island so they arrived at different times. Another was that someone (Richard Alpert?) always knows where the island is and how to get to/from it and has been making continued arrangements for shipments. That might tie in well to the fact that the O6 need to know how to get back not just to the island but back to an island that is now traveling through time.


"If Horace was a ghost and not a skipper then why was his nose bleeding?"

I think that was more a way for the writers to foreshadow things that were going to happen in the future (ie: this season) than it was something that was actually happening to a real time-traveling Horace. Remember, all of the "skippers" are reacting relatively normally within their "current" surroundings just in a different time period. Horace was actually repeating his actions in a kind of endless loop. That leads me to believe he was no more real than, say, Walt coming to Locke and telling him to get up out of the pit because he has things to do. In both cases, it probably wasn't even the actual person but rather a projection made specifically for them to show them or tell them something. Like Eko's brother asking Eko to recant his sins. Do we really believe it was Eko? My personal opinion is that these visions, or projections, are tightly tied to the individual(s) seeing them and thus often have nothing to do with the real person that is being represented. Dead people or representations of them have a tendency to show up in all kinds of places and situations on the island.

#257. Posted by: LostedIt at February 10, 2009 9:44 AM

@252: Plain Simple - I remember your hypothesis. It's certainly possibly, however given the fact that they took the one boat that was on the beach I don't think the O6 would suddenly come up with another boat to chase them. Besides, when recently have we ever seen them chasing someone for stealing a boat or comparable object? People yes, property I cannot recall a chase scene and cannot think of, at least at this moment, a need to chase someone for stealing a boat, much less shoot at them for stealing it. That being said, I will definitely eat my words in a soon-to-appear episode...

@255: ransomjackson - "I think Locke would blow it up just to see the pretty colors". That gave me a laugh when I read it. Locke caveman, me like thing go boom, fire arrrrrrrr!

Regarding Farraday, I'll say it again, I don't like him one bit. Some people hate Ben (ok, many people), Farraday is my target of ire.

#258. Posted by: LostedIt at February 10, 2009 9:53 AM

I just re-read my post #257 and my question should have read "Do we really believe it was Eko's brother?"

#259. Posted by: LostedIt at February 10, 2009 9:56 AM

I'm starting to hate Faraday and Juliet both. They both have this annoying way of starting to reveal something but then not really saying anything. Someone needs to throttle these two until they tell everything they know.

Come on--Juliet was an Other. She know their secret language and handshake. She obviously knows Richard is old. So she must know who the Others are, where they came from and all that. Why doesn't she just tell someone? Why doesn't Sawyer point his little shotgun at her until she gives it up?

And Faraday? Someone please make him stop talking in circles with that little hesitation and all those riddles! Why do they put up with him? If someone knows as much as he obviously does then why wouldn't they press him to explain it all?

#260. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 10, 2009 12:19 PM

What if turnip head Aaron is a young version of Locke? That would explain why Locke had to "die" to leave the island and why Claire is hanging out with Jacob, the ghostly mastermind.

#261. Posted by: mostlost at February 10, 2009 3:04 PM

@ mostlost - "What if turnip head Aaron is a young version of Locke?"

Well, we saw Locke being born to his young mother (RA visited right after). And we saw Aaron being born to Claire. So definately not the same child. A young "version" of Locke? I dunno... except in both cases above, the rabbit died.

#262. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 10, 2009 3:44 PM

And so it begins...

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b99339_lost_sneak_peeks_smokey_back.html?sid=rss_topstories&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

Apparently Sun doesn't shoot Ben or anyone else. Oh, and SMOKEY'S BACK, baby!

#263. Posted by: LostedIt at February 10, 2009 3:46 PM

looking forward to seeing ole' smokey, maybe we'll finally get to see just exactly what is involved in unleashing old boy. :)

#264. Posted by: tiffani at February 10, 2009 4:13 PM

Ben & Jules were dharma before becoming others. Who else amoung the others was dharma??

#265. Posted by: mtncbn at February 10, 2009 4:25 PM

Did my own research. purge=dec 19, 1992
juliet arrives sep 21, 2001. She was never dharma. Recruited by the others.

Is Ben the only non-other other?? (I guess Locke is one now)

#266. Posted by: mtncbn at February 10, 2009 4:34 PM

Just got a chance to watch all the episodes this season and rewatch last season's finale and, uh, whaaaaa? These time jumps are making me crazy like Rousseau (the older, scragglier version, that is).

P.S. I think Aaron's one of the six!

But now watch me try to prove that he's not. If Ben is trying to stage-manage events so that they all get back to the island, why does he seem to be manipulating events so that Aaron does NOT go back to the island (perhaps ending up in Mrs. Littleton's custody)? Pretty convenient that she happens to be in L.A. to settle a lawsuit against Oceanic Airlines, and we've theorized before that Ben has a connection with Oceanic. So if "all of them" returning to the island means Bentham/Locke but not Aaron, then maybe Aaron's not one of the six.

All kidding aside, I do think there's a reason Aaron is not supposed to return to the island and I bet it will draw Christian Shephard back into the bigger Lost picture.

#267. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 10, 2009 4:43 PM

@ LostedIt

Thanks for posting the awesome Smokey video link! Can't wait for tomorrow night now. Ole Smokey is as big and bad as ever! Bad, bad Smokey. Sit... stay...

#268. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 10, 2009 4:58 PM

#261-62

Weird, I thought about posting that theory and then negated it moments before reading your posts. I guess that's why I don't have much to say this season. I am starting to think like ya'll ahhhhhh!!!!!

#269. Posted by: meg at February 10, 2009 5:24 PM

@267, Scooby-Dude: Wasn't there way back something about how Aaron had to be raised by Claire on the Island, or God help us all. Or something? My bet is on the Island wanting Aaron back as well.

#270. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 10, 2009 5:47 PM

5-4 The Little Prince

Sawyer sees Kate, pangs
Of unrequited love stir,
Then another flash.

Ben manipulates
Kate to a meet in Long Beach
But Sun has a gun.

#271. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 10, 2009 5:52 PM

"Sun of a Gun?"

#272. Posted by: welh at February 10, 2009 6:21 PM

Ok, sorry I'm only up to post 177 but do you think it's possible Charlotte & Miles are Adam & Eve & that they die during a jump back?

Also, just started re-watching Season 1 & the way Christian Shepard appears & disappears makes it definitely look like he was time travelling.

#273. Posted by: CrazyHair at February 10, 2009 11:44 PM

It might a “spoiler” now but in hours it will be common knowledge.

There’s some information in the newest issue of TV Guide hitting the newsstands about the current season. One article verifies that, yes, there will be an episode about Ben becoming the father of Alex. AND there is a multi-episode series where the YOUNG Ben meets the Island time-hoppers as they timejump by . .

This could be a very cool season!

14 hours and counting.

#274. Posted by: davidrh at February 11, 2009 7:31 AM

So I'm sorry that I'm behind on reading the posts so one again, if I'm repeating something... my bad.

I just noticed this while rewatching.
Another reason why I think Carlton, Damen and J.J. are brilliant.

Did anyone else hear when they showed little Rousseau and her raft with the rest of the frenchies that you could hear the "4 8 15 16 23 42 --" transmission.

In the first season in the episodes "Numbers" (I'm pretty sure it was that episode), Hurley saw Rousseau's notes and map and stuff and one of them read:

4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 8 15 16 23 42

Anyway, Hurley was freaking out about it because that's the episode that we find out that he won the lottery with the numbers and he got all that bad luck. In that episode, he also went to go see that guy that Lenoard told him to see, but he was dead and he talked to his wife instead.

When he saw the paper written by Rousseau and he wanted to know why she wrote it, and he wanted someone to tell him that they agree with him or at least believe him that the numbers are cursed.

When he went to go see Rousseau, she told him that the reason she came to the island was because her team picked up a transmission that was repeating those numbers over and over. She said that they decided to follow the transmission and that's how they ended up at the island.

My point was, when they showed Rousseau and all that, you could hear in the transmission in the background.
____________

So I don't really get it. If time is going in circles, and if everything that's technically happening already happened even though it's happening now, then why didn't Rousseau remember Jin? Actually, I don't really remember if she ever met Jin.

Wow, this is all really confusing me.

Nose bleed!!! =[

[Sorry for bad english].

#275. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 11, 2009 8:48 AM

I forgot about the book "The Little Prince" till I saw the cover from the link that someone posted.

That used to be one of my favorite books! I used to carry it around everywhere with me! I still have it... somewhere.

Good times.

I was wondering why it sounded so familiar.

#276. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 11, 2009 9:09 AM

I don't think anyone has mentioned this before. I watched last weeks show and when they're in the "dug-out" boat Sawyer tells Juliet that he saw Kate delivering Claire's baby. She then says that was 3 months ago. Are we to believe that? Has more time passed in the O-6 world?

#277. Posted by: dk at February 11, 2009 10:50 AM

@277 - dk asked "Has more time passed in the O-6 world?"

I think one basic problem in trying to make sense of this show is assuming that just because we see events unfold in a certain order (due to those wacky producers and editors) we assume that that is the order in which they actually unfolded in "real life".

So showing us something that happened in 2008 sandwiched between two events that happened on the island in 2004 IMO is purposefully obfuscating on the part of Darlton.

In my mind's eye I see a bunch of Faraday-type geeks sitting in a dark writer's room giggling with girlish glee at all the false leads and red herrings they throw out there knowing us Lost-atics are gobbling them up like a herd of Hungry Hungry Hippos with a Cleveland-sized sack of Oreos.

#278. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 11, 2009 11:08 AM

Humm... @ ransomjackson - are you proposing that these writers have what I used to "reefer" to as the "munchies" back in the 70's?

Only seems logical since they're probably stationed in California or Hawaii. They grow some good rabbit food there too...

Anybody want a brownie?

#279. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 11, 2009 11:23 AM

As some comedian (maybe it was George Carlin GRHS) used to say, "I used to do a lot of (fill in the blank) in the seventies. Now I don't care what temperature it is."

Pass the brownies, BL. And turn up the Floyd...

#280. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 11, 2009 11:33 AM

I think Ben is being his usual manipulative self and wants those particular people (06) to return to the island so he can change a past event – Alex getting killed. I wouldn’t be surprised if his targeted date for returning to the island is prior to her demise. I don’t recall offhand who exactly was with him when it happened but they all had a part in the chain of events that led up to it.

Although, if their past selves are there, why would he need the current 06 there? Maybe that's the only way he can go back.

#281. Posted by: gris at February 11, 2009 11:45 AM

Roger that RJ. But only AFTER tonight's episode. Hard enough to keep up with what's going on as it is. Besides, ***spoiler*** ole Smokey might scare the "smoke" right out of us...

Dark Side of the Moon - nice... One of my favorites. Still have it on LP. Not to mention Janice Joplin and Jimmy Hendrix. Marshall Tucker, Bob Seger, etc. Now THAT was an era of good music.

#282. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 11, 2009 11:52 AM

I'll take Blue Oyster Cult with my brownies, please.

#283. Posted by: Cecil at February 11, 2009 11:57 AM

Cecil - I shudder to think how many "Cowbell" comments yer gonna get.

I had a big Southern rock phase in the 70's...Skynyrd, .38 Special, Molly Hatchett, & the Allman Bros. Throw in some Nugent, Led Zep and Jack, umm, I mean Charlie Daniels and I was gtg.

Must be getting close to showtime...this conversation's kinda wandering aimlessly (thanks to BunnyLover's brownies). Just like Sawyer & Co. in the jungle. Buh-BAM!

#284. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 11, 2009 12:28 PM

@Plain Simple 270

In flashbacks, the psychic Malkin first told Claire that she must raise the child herself, then he abruptly changed his mind 4 months later (don't recall if he said anything about the island, though). Then in Kate's dream (or maybe "dream") at the end of season 4 off-island, Claire warns her not to bring Aaron back to the island.

#285. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 11, 2009 12:43 PM

TGIW! Time for the natives to get a little "restless".

Here's a thought - all interviews with D&C seem to be pointing to the O6 getting back to the island some time later this season. The only way I can see that happening is if they "hop on" to the island during one of its forward/backward jumps in time. That would reconcile the fact that the on-island people currently have lived only days (perhaps a week?) of time while the off-island people currently have lived at least three years of time.

Here's an interesting question: How does Ben find out that Jin is alive? Technically it happened almost 3 years ago, so there would be plenty of time to find out, but the island has been hopping all of that time. Without an eye that is watching the goings-on on the island (like us watching it on tv), technically there's no way to "see" what has happened since the island started hopping. One might argue that Jin's existence in the past eventually gets noticed by someone who can and does realize that this Jin is not in his "regularly scheduled time slot" AND can report that information back, AND that information eventually gets to Ben. That's the only pathway I can see to Ben and the other off-islanders knowing ANYTHING about what is going on on-island since the O6 left - through incidental happenings over the past that someone puts the pieces together in the post-skipping present (I know, currently it's technically still skipping).

Furthermore, since we're talking about an eventual reunion on-island of at least some of the O6 (I read/heard somewhere that one/some may decide to stay) with the ones left behind, what is going to happen when the off-islanders return to the island? We can only venture to guess that when the island stops skipping someone is going to be out of sync with whatever "present time" they end up in. If the island lands at "today" when it stops hopping, then the on-island people will have lost almost 3 years of time. If the island stops hopping at the place it should be relative to when it stopped hopping (so, then, around 7-ish days after the point it started) then the O6 will have almost 3 years to relive should they ever leave the island again.

Ok, nosebleed, nosebleed! Someone get me a tissue or a hemorrhage kit...

#286. Posted by: LostedIt at February 11, 2009 12:45 PM

Near the end of that last post, it should have read "If the island stops hopping at the place it should be relative to when it STARTED hopping..."

#287. Posted by: LostedIt at February 11, 2009 12:48 PM

*278 ransomjackson - Ah, yes. You got - maybe - might be - who knows? Yes, those guys are probably throwing out lots of red herrings in these shows. I should have guessed. They just love to mess with our heads!

And since nobody has mentioned it.... "I gotta have more cowbell!" In fact, if you listen really close tonight, Smokey plays the cowbell.

#288. Posted by: dk at February 11, 2009 1:31 PM

@LostIt

I suspect that the "explanation" will be that Ben is "Special" and he is hard wired into his Other Constant(s) on the island so he is all seeing, all knowing.

#289. Posted by: welh at February 11, 2009 1:39 PM

"Smokey and the Cowbells"
Has a nice ring to it doesn't it? I can just see that band name appearing in the local papers now.

You think Smokey stole the cow bell from the cow that greeted Lapidus just after he landed the helicopter the 1st time? Or WAS it the 1st time.
[queue spooky twilight zone music]

#290. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 11, 2009 1:42 PM

Good article about where LOST is heading.

*******MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS*******


http://tinyurl.com/be342z

P. S. They mention rabbits... ha!

#291. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 11, 2009 2:18 PM

@284 ransomjackson mentioned:

>I had a big Southern rock phase in the 70's...Skynyrd, .38 Special, Molly Hatchett, & the Allman Bros. Throw in some Nugent, Led Zep and Jack, umm, I mean Charlie Daniels and I was gtg.

I got to sit in on a Skynyrd recording session in Nashville, once, when my little brother Charles was dubbing horn tracks on one of their albums.

#292. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 11, 2009 3:21 PM

Cecil got to sit in on a Skynyrd recording session...Wasn't Call Me the Breeze, was it? I dig that tune.

How friggin' cool is that?

And now Billy Powell has passed away.

Alls I can say is there's a helluva band up there...

#293. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 11, 2009 3:47 PM

Well, the Skynyrds had already done their thing. It was just Charles alone in a studio wearing a headset and adding trombone tracks to the mix.

I did get to meet several Skynyrds in the booth, though I cannot remember their names. They seemed proudest of how loud it was - "Real head-banger music" they said.

#294. Posted by: Cecil at February 11, 2009 4:18 PM

To -279, 280, 282, 238, 284 et al

Here's a timely article about legalizing a certain substance to stimulate (sorry) the economy. (I forgot how to create that tiny url thingie.)

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/02/10/backlash-against-kelloggs-would-legalizing-marijuana-be-good-f/?icid=200100397x1218861682x1201212187

#295. Posted by: lovelost at February 11, 2009 4:34 PM

@275: The writers are brilliant because they get their own backstory right? Now, I'd say, that means they are competent (at least in that respect), not brilliant. They might still be just that, but not based on the example of having the number transmission in there. In my ever so humble opinion of course. :)

@277: Yes, the events off island play some 3 years after the O6 returned (in the mean time Jack and Kate got together, broke up, Des and Penny became parents, Sayid was killing for Ben, Hurley went and had himself locked up in the psychiatric institution, Sun was running her dad's (and now hers too) business, Aaron was watching cartoons, etc.). The events on island follow directly after the events in last seasons finale (freighter boom, island foom). At least from the Losties/Frosties point of view. For the outside viewer the events are all over the timeline between 1954 and an as yet unknown (but not too distant it seems) future.

@278: Like this you mean: http://tinyurl.com/d39xah

@282: Amen to the good music. And the best thing is: it's still there. No time travel needed. :)

@285: Scooby-Dude, thanks. Actually, Claire's warning was not to bring "him" back, which is open to other interpretations: http://tinyurl.com/7c8xpk

@286: The island hasn't been hopping for three years. At least not from the pov of the Losties/Frosties. If it would end up with a hop to 2008, then for the off island people it would have been hopping for 3 years, but for the on island skippers it could have been hopping for a day or for 10 years. We don't now, since we have not seen it happen (yet?).

As for how Ben knows Jin is alive (I guess that's coming up in today's episode?): Rousseau and the other French know that there was a Korean guy on the Island back in 1988 (or 1986 or what is it). Perhaps any of them has told him. Or Rousseau told Alex and she told Ben (or was she too young when she was taken? don't remember).

#296. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 11, 2009 4:44 PM

I'm not sure I buy that the whispers are basically "echos" of people time traveling. Haven't we seen that the whispers tend to show up right before the Others are about to do something? Just seems like too much of coincidence.

Thoughts?

#297. Posted by: Brian at February 11, 2009 5:35 PM

→ 291

Thanks for the great link BunnyLover.

The article (imho) says it all.

...but no big hair (hare). We're still addicted.

#298. Posted by: Islandhopper at February 11, 2009 5:38 PM

that article seemed to tell too much...had to stop reading after the first paragraph.
Less than two hours! can't wait!
or maybe right before the show airs I'll FOOOMP to tomorrow and then have to watch it on DVR? :-)

#299. Posted by: Steve at February 11, 2009 7:12 PM

→ 291. Bunnylover

I love this quote. Great article thanks!

"The fear is that 'Lost' just became an AP class, and really, what's one's incentive for taking an AP class?" says exec producer Damon Lindelof. "But the show has gotten to that point where it had to let its freak flag fly. It needed to announce, 'You wanna know what the Island is? You wanna know why these people were brought to the Island? You wanna know what their purpose for being there is? Well, it might be a little weirder than you would've hoped.' "

Oh, BTW, you can't give a nod to the great music and brownies and such of the '70's without giving a nod, a wink and a puff to the Grateful Dead. Are we all letting our freak flags fly, now?

#300. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 11, 2009 7:33 PM

Julia is last?
nah, I don't think so.

#301. Posted by: Julia at February 11, 2009 8:04 PM

What's first or last on Lost anyway? :)

#302. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 11, 2009 8:17 PM

Very quickly before the enhanced rerun of last week’s epi gets too far along ...

@231/LostedIt & @234/tiffani:
Thanks! :)

Too many other refs to list:
Just a few thoughts ...

(1) I still have seen no evidence that anyone has “really” travelled to the future, just at intervals along the timeline between 1954-2008 ... I’ve said it before, but bears repeating: if they stick to this premise (i.e., no “true” forward time jumping), then the idea that they cannot change the future, just course correct, is still valid ... if they are allowed to “really” jump forward in time, then either the future can be changed, or everything is predetermined and no one has free will (I think the writers have been trying to avoid both of these options).

(2) They essentially invoked the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle as the means to “scientifically” explain this “no changing the future” mythology. Interestingly, this principle holds that as long as things return to the original timeline as of when the traveler went back in time, things do not have to be exactly the same between when the traveler went back and when he left ... this opens the door for “course correction” as presented on the show. It could also be an explanation for the whole “why did Des not remember talking to Daniel at the Swan until 3 years after leaving the island, ‘when’ apparently, Daniel ‘just’ spoke to him” thing ... effectively, Desmond CANNOT remember talking to Daniel before then, because that would’ve violated Novikov.

(3) Now, referencing #1 and #2 above ... I would suggest that Ben (and others) know so much about the O6, and 815ers in general, because he’s been through this before! Not sure we have enough info yet to explain why ... The Incident? Another FDW turning at some point in the past? Anything to do with the purge? Are all of these things related? Do the O6 and/or the skippers cause this to happen somehow? I’m betting YES to all of these ... also, note that none of the O6 were on Ben’s “list” when the plane first went down ... why? I would suggest “the list” has to do with those doing the skipping prior to the O6 return, for some reason. Why? I dunno ... yet.

(4) Last point, building on the first three ... I think something bad happened the “first time” through “the loop,” and perhaps Richard, Jacob, Ben(?), et al are “stuck,” and they are trying to “course adjust” the past, so they can break out of the loop at “the event window.” I’d also suggest that in the previous loop (loops?) than Ben went through, Alex did not die, hence why he seemed so damned cavalier with her life when Keamy had her ... kinda like Tom taunting Michael to kill himself ... he did not think it would happen, cause it didn’t “before.” That’s what he meant by “the rules being broken” ...

Anyway, just wanted to get these final thoughts out before the new epi starts.

#303. Posted by: ealgumby at February 11, 2009 8:18 PM

oh, remember the first time we did this? i was last... ealgumby & Plain Simple, don't try to change things!! this is me, course correcting:
Julia is last.

(p.s. i agree with your whole post 303, ealgumby)

#304. Posted by: Julia at February 11, 2009 8:24 PM

wow! now THAT was good.

#305. Posted by: Steve at February 11, 2009 10:05 PM

Best...episode...ever!!

#306. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 11, 2009 10:23 PM

Very engrossing. Now, since the blog for the next episode is not up yet, I'll just post it here (so SPOILER):

Why did I get the strongest feeling that Ben=John, during John's conversation with Christian???

#307. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 12, 2009 12:59 AM

@297 Brian wondered:

>I'm not sure I buy that the whispers are basically "echos" of people time traveling. Haven't we seen that the whispers tend to show up right before the Others are about to do something? Just seems like too much of coincidence.

Especially since the whispers (if you believe the trasncripts that can be found) seem to refer to what's happening in the scenes taking places - i.e. the whisperers seem to be seeing and reacting to what's going on a the time.

#308. Posted by: Cecil at February 12, 2009 10:33 AM

I thought folks might enjoy this little tidbit from the current PostSecret:

http://tinyurl.com/dlybmg

#309. Posted by: Caelum at February 12, 2009 11:34 AM

Everyone at Delicious Monster has been hard at work for the past several months on Delicious Library 1.5, a free upgrade that will be made available on April 29th
[url=http://www.delicious-monster.com/blog/2005/04/announcing-delicious-library-15.html]delicious[/url]
http://www.delicious-monster.com/blog/2005/04/announcing-delicious-library-15.html

#310. Posted by: Spearriax at April 3, 2009 4:15 AM