The Lost Blog

Key Points from "LaFleur"

Season 5, Episode 8
Episode Air Date: 03/04/09

Point 1
Sawyer

Juliet

Jin

Miles

Faraday

Amy
I think I know why ABC cancelled "Life on Mars." An obscure FCC rule says major television networks can only have one '70s-era time-twisting show on the schedule at any given time. And since "Lost" has more clout, "Mars" got the boot. (Absolute fact -- don't bother looking it up.)

In "LaFleur" we learn that Locke's spin of the frozen donkey wheel accomplished two things:

  1. It stopped the island from skipping through time, which means Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Miles and Daniel will not share Charlotte's squishy-brain fate.
  2. It deposited the island in 1974. This benefits Sawyer because his flowing Farrah hair fits right in, but it also means Sawyer and his Brady Bunch must contend with Dharma, Others and questionable sartorial choices.

    (Note: I'm not sure how Sawyer determines the year, but until we learn otherwise I'm going to assume the group lived in Dharmaville from '74-'77 ... and "current" events now take place from '77 on).

So let's chronicle the notable events from That '70s Show:

  • At some point -- we don't know when -- Dharma and the Others declared a truce. Sawyer and the crew land just as the truce falls apart. In the hazy moments following Locke's departure, the group wanders back to the beach with a rough plan to rebuild the camp (or find the camp ... whichever comes first). But they stumble upon a picnic gone horribly awry. Two Dharma Drones -- Amy (Reiko Aylesworth; "24" fans know her as Michelle) and her husband Paul (some poor actor limited to corpse duty) -- are jumped by two shaggy-haired Others. Paul is quickly executed and Amy appears headed in the same direction. But Sawyer and Juliet intervene with some high-calibre namaste and save the day.

    You'll recall that Daniel Faraday's Rules for Time Travel dictate that the future cannot be changed by tweaking past events. Or, as Faraday himself puts it: "Whatever happened, happened." If Faraday is correct, Amy was always saved. Something or someone intervened. But here's where my brain starts to pulse: Does that "someone" have to be Sawyer and Juliet, or is the outcome more important than the details? And if outcomes carry more weight, who/what determines which outcomes will be most important in a person's (or island's) existence? I'm assuming small events -- like the milk going bad in a Dharma fridge, or Horace Goodspeed getting a haircut -- don't qualify as "outcome worthy," right?

    Enough of that. I feel a knot growing under my forehead.

  • It takes a while, but Sawyer and the crew are assimilated into the Dharma collective. Sawyer (using the name "Jim LaFleur") eventually becomes head of security. Juliet (I'm not sure what name she's using Juliet, Miles, and Jin are all using their real names) fixes Dharma vans in the motor pool. Miles and Jin appear to also work the security detail. We don't see Daniel's transition, but the season five premiere, "Because You Left," already showed Danny working with the crew building the Orchid station. So he's around.
  • This episode should have been subtitled "How Sawyer Got His Groove Back." He uncorks a wicked combination of Han Solo charm and badass con-man ninja skills (an alias and backstory on demand ... and with the Black Rock thrown in for spice!). It's a pleasure to watch this man work the mojo.

  • Speaking of workin' it -- Juliet and Sawyer find an interesting and interactive way to pass their time in Dharmatown: falling in love. This is a hook-up I never would have anticipated, but it just sorta works within the context of blown up freighters, skipping islands and time rifts. Or maybe it's that Dharma free love vibe. Regardless, the Juliet-Sawyer pairing means we'll have a full-blown Love Rhombus when Jack and Kate make their awkward return.
  • Sometime during the group's three-year stay, Amy marries Dharma leader Horace Goodspeed (the moron who invites little Benjamin Linus to the island). Amy gets pregnant and Juliet is called out of retirement to deliver the child. The birth of Amy's baby boy (and Amy's survival) marks the first time Juliet has ever successfully delivered a child on the island. The baby is still an anomaly, however. All Dharma babies are born off-island; Amy popped her's out because she went into labor earlier than expected. So the question is: who will that baby grow up to be?
  • I wonder what the repercussions will be from Sawyer's conversation with Richard Alpert. Sawyer proves, via references to Jughead and Locke's 1954 sit-down with Alpert, that he's been making guest appearances in the island's timeline. Presumably, this makes Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Miles and Daniel valuable to Alpert. Will their status keep them safe during the Dharma purge (assuming they're still around)?
Point 2
Sawyer

Kate
At the very end of the episode, Sawyer reunites with Kate, Jack and Hurley. It's a lovely moment -- lots of dramatic eyeglass removal, windswept hair and tired-but-amazed looks -- but you get the sense Sawyer isn't completely thrilled to see his Oceanic buddies.

It makes sense. He's been livin' large as Dharmaville's security poobah, and everyone knows Juliet is a much better catch than Flaky Kate. This reunion probably marks a beginning-of-the-end moment for Sawyer.

Point 3
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "Your buddy out there with the eyeliner, let me talk to him." -- Sawyer, referring to Richard Alpert.
  • Best Line: "The beach? What, you didn't get enough flaming arrows shot at you? Or maybe when we get there, you'll want to go back to the Orchid again, and then when that gets boring we can head back to the beach. It's the only two plans you people have." -- Miles to Sawyer and Juliet.
  • Attention citizens of Dharmaville: If your daughter has red hair and an English accent, do not allow her within 100 yards of the twitchy bearded fellow.
  • We still don't know the significance of the four-toed statue, but we did get a glimpse of the structure in its former glory. The time-leap immediately before Locke's final spin of the donkey wheel allowed Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Jin to see the back of the massive statue.
  • When/if their reunion finally comes to pass, Sun is going to be deeply impressed with Jin's command of the English language. Three years of Dharma immersion works wonders.
  • Amy reveals the sonic death fence's achilles heel: earplugs. I'm assuming the plugs only work when the fence is set to "stun" ... but it's also possible Mikhail Bakunin's Lazarus maneuver stemmed from a pair of well-placed earbuds.
  • Programming note: Next week's "Lost" will be a repeat of "LaFleur." A new episode will air Wednesday, March 18.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"LaFleur" (Repeat) -- Sawyer goes undercover as a Dharma drone. Airs Wednesday, March 11, 2009 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Remember early in the season there was that shot of Faraday while the FDW was being "discovered". I think that was in the very first scene of this season (I can't find it in the reviews... I miss Mac's old-style more complete reviews!)

Anyway, that was probably in the '70s, so it'll probably happen soon. And that will likely be key to how they make it back to "now".

Oh yeah... I generally prefer brunettes, but I gotta say that Juliette is looking much hotter than Freckles now. Good choice James.

#1. Posted by: LostInConnecticut at March 4, 2009 11:50 PM

Love the eyeliner comment!

#2. Posted by: Frogurt at March 5, 2009 12:00 AM

Eyeliner! I'm still laughing.

#3. Posted by: hurling at March 5, 2009 12:03 AM

Fun Episode.

I have some wacky theories. First the statue is a fertility statue and when it gets destroyed it is what causes the baby making situation.

I had a moment in the ep where I thought that baby might be Jins and would end up being Miles but I think that would be too wacky even for Lost. Poor Mr. Goodspeed if true though.

Sawyer was awesome in this ep. Its almost sad the old gang had to get back together. As the Jules and Sawyer pairing has good legs. It looks like they still may have a shot though.

I wanted to see smokey but I guess learning more about the fence was ok too.

Curious where Sun is since she still didn't even make the preview for the ep in 2 weeks.

#4. Posted by: JJ at March 5, 2009 12:10 AM

Poor Juliet doesn't stand a chance!

GRAA Mac.

First thing I noticed tonight was the absence of Christian Shepherd in the recap of past Island events. Was he really not there with Locke at the Frozen Donkey Wheel (Shaka, when the walls fell)? Or was he there but only Locke can see him? Or was he just not used in the shots to avoid paying John Terry royalties when this episode reairs next week? (Oh, and no new ep next week is lame!)

LOL @ "How Sawyer Got His Groove Back." I'd pay 10 bucks to see that movie, Mac!

Mac, Sawyer is (physically at least) totally Juliette's type, and they both lie so perfectly to everyone (except each other...mostly...) that I think they are a good match. Plus we get to see Juliette lose it after first Jack and now Sawyer pick Freckles over her!

It was interesting that when the others found Danny he was muttering to himself that he wouldn't tell her. Can he keep himself from warning Charlotte? Will it make a difference if he can?

@ 1. LostInConnecticut: Yes, it was the opening of the first episode...not technically the first scene, it followed Dr. Chang's very mundane morning and the interruption of his latest direct to video filming. we saw Daniel's face just before the opening "LOST" title.

Actually the reason ABC probably canceled Life on Mars is the lead actor has all the talent of a wet paper bag. The BBC original is brilliant, mostly because of John Simm in the lead. Check it out!

#5. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 5, 2009 12:16 AM

Question 1): Where is Horace's OTHER wife? The blonde we saw, who is with him when Roger Linus stumbles out onto the highway with his wife, after she just gave birth to Ben -- what happened to her? Is this before or after that event? We know she was on the Island as a teacher, as we saw her teaching Ben and Annie's class during the Hostile's raid on New Otherton.

Question 2): If Horace is currently on the Island, has he already brought Ben and Roger Linus to the Island, or did this happen after 1974-1977? If the Losties don't (somehow) get zapped out of this timeline, eventually they WILL come across a young Benjamin Linus...

Aside from the "pirate-garb" we saw Alpert wearing once, and the suit we saw him in off-Island when recruiting Juliet, it seems apparent to me that not only does Richard not age, he also has only one outfit -- that pair of slacks and blue dress shirt. Speaking of which, there must be something VERY important about Juliet, that Richard Alpert HIMSELF left the Island to bring her to it, other than the whole fertility thing (which Richard told Locke that Ben was wasting their time with)...

#6. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 12:16 AM

@ 4. JJ : Are you sure? i thought I saw Sun in the preview...if only briefly. It was not possible to tell what time line she was in though.

#7. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 5, 2009 12:18 AM

the episode didn't 'wow' me, but was very solid.

As for the statue, right after they see it, there's a flash. Miles says something like "that one was different, more like an earthquake.'
As of now, I'll believe the rest of the statue crumbled.

Biggest thing on this episode to me was Juliet delivering the baby - and mother and baby living. - Her recruitment by Alpert ties into that.

Favorite line, laughed out loud, Miles: 'by now, he's probably trying to explain time travel'

and...2 weeks?!?! what's up with that?

#8. Posted by: Steve at March 5, 2009 12:20 AM

Too bad we only saw the back of the giant statue. I wonder if we would recognize the face? Who would it be....?

#9. Posted by: Frogurt at March 5, 2009 12:23 AM

Wonder why the Hostile's dead bodies have to be buried well? what's that all about? Well, I think we all know what it's about.....whispers?!

#10. Posted by: Skipper at March 5, 2009 12:25 AM

@Steve

That flash was different because time stopped. Time stopping probably hurts. It might have felt like an earthquake in his head but I don't think that is how the statue got destroyed. Until proven otherwise it Mr. Otherton himself (Ben) that is responsible (btw I blame him for global warming and clubbing of baby seals too).

As for Sun I didn't see her but I will check the DVR when I have a chance.

#11. Posted by: JJ at March 5, 2009 12:27 AM

Four toed statue? That was the Six toed statue. Ol' four toe is 500 meters south.

#12. Posted by: TanziTwo at March 5, 2009 12:36 AM

I wanted to comment last week, but couldn't remember too much about those sonic pillar thingies.
But after seeing them tonight, it kind of resembles the layout of the poles in Tunisia where Locke ends up.

#13. Posted by: Steve at March 5, 2009 12:37 AM

The island didn't get deposited anywhere in time, our time-hopping CHARACTERS got deposited in 1974. And wasn't there a short scene with Faraday? He sees the little girl with red hair. Isn't that the child version of Charlotte? She sort of waves at Faraday. That's when they first arrive though, so yeah, I guess we didn't see him three years later. I don't think it's a coincidence and I don't think he's there.

I think the scene earlier in the season, with Faraday digging underground, takes place earlier in time than this episode. I get the feeling that at this point, in '74, all of the Dahrma stations have been created. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. I think we've got a lot more to deal with regarding time travel. Remember the earlier episodes dealing with Desmond skipping through time and almost getting "lost"? And Faraday suffers from the same problems.

I also disagree about the time travel rules. Faraday says "whatever happened, happened." Then doesn't that still apply to a jug of milk going bad? If it went bad, it went bad. I think the rules are iron clad and pertain to every detail. Therefore I think Sawyer and Juliet always saved the pregnant woman, Amy.

Love the love rhombus.

REALLY loved seeing the giant statue.

Loved that when they finally stopped hopping that they weren't conveniently back in their normal time. Was it Locke turning the wheel that stopped the hopping or was it his reappearance on the island that stopped the hopping? I'm thinking the latter.

I agree with your 'beginning of the end' synopsis for Sawyer, but I think it might be a 'beginning of the end' for all of them and their friendships. Sawyer's got it good now and doesn't want it to end, but he knows it will, so they'll have to be long gone before Ben shows up to purge the island of the Dharma folks.

And what about this? When Ben turned the wheel all those episodes ago and left the island, he referred to it as being 'banished' from the island. He said that anyone who turns the wheel is not allowed to come back. So why is Ben trying to get back if he's not allowed? And if that were actually true, why is Locke back?

This season's episodes are so gloriously maddening. And awesome. Every episode seems to have a jaw dropper in it.

#14. Posted by: Mike at March 5, 2009 12:42 AM

interesting episode...anybody got a theory on who the baby might grow up to be????

#15. Posted by: surefoot at March 5, 2009 12:42 AM

Hey all, I didn't read the review or any of the posts yet (o, o, Jughead alarm), but there's a reason: I didn't see the episode yet. So why the post? I need to vent my anger somewhere... grrr... here I was, ready for my weekly new dose of Lost and what do I get: America's Next Top Model? wtf? Turns out they showed Lost two hours earlier than the usual time here (and there was no extend-Jeremy Bentham at all). Why? WHY?!

Anyway, good thing they will eventually put the episode up online, so I will be able to see it later, but right now I'm seriously suffering from withdrawal. :) And I just got one more reason to absolutely loathe these so-called reality shows.

Okay, sorry for the rant. Hope to be back soon with more solid posting.

I hope you enjoyed the episode!

#16. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 5, 2009 12:50 AM

@6 Posted by: Stocky

I wondered the same thing about Horace Goodspeed's "other" wife. Maybe they weren't supposed to save Amy and Horace was supposed to marry someone else...? Will there be a course correction?

---

I was really hoping we could learn what exactly occurred with Sayid. It seems like a short period of time between the time Sayid was contacted by Locke to the time Sayid boarded Ajira flight.

When Lock contacted him he was working on houses in Santa Domingo and then suddenly he's busting Hurley out of Santa Rosa and being attacked by unidentified "bad guys" in his safe-house. Next we see him, he's being escorted by a marshall (or other officer) on flight 316. What exactly happened to cause this sudden turn-of-events? Maybe in two weeks we'll find out.

#17. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at March 5, 2009 12:59 AM

OK....I'll be the first to throw this out there....Jules looked a big pregnant to me when Sawyer went and gave her the flower. So....Jules + Sawyer = pregnant....awesome.
Here it goes: Annie -- Ben's Annie= Juliet and Sawyer's baby.
Devil's advocate here. There were parallels to Jules and Annie's looks, am I right? Eh? EH?

#18. Posted by: Somnambulist at March 5, 2009 1:01 AM

Damn Plain that sucks. At least you can catch it online but I would be beyond pissed. I'm sure that station manager got a few calls.

#19. Posted by: JJ at March 5, 2009 1:01 AM

How did Sawyer know about the Locke-RA details??

#20. Posted by: mtncbn at March 5, 2009 1:19 AM

So... Locke at the wheel was ancient history, the statue was still standing. Interesting that there was no Christian on this viewing. And now back to 1974, a well top with no well??? I give up!!

#21. Posted by: mtncbn at March 5, 2009 1:34 AM

After thinking about some of this, I've begun to think that last week's events have been mis-interpreted. For example, when Ben tells Locke that Jack booked a flight, is it possible that flight was, at that point in time, the very first one that Jack booked, as he moved from his position of never wanting to go back to the new attitude of hoping to get back?

Also, I don't think Walt's dreams-mention to Locke is for the future, I think it ws a tie-in to his past. He mentions dreaming about Locke, and Locke being surrounded by people who want to hurt him. This reminds me of current grown-up Walt appearing in the past to Locke when he was shot by Ben in the ditch. That ties everything together nicely, providing a retroactive explanation for an older Walt appearing to Locke at the time, and concluding with the actual grown-up Walt mentioning that same event, referenced only as a dream.

I also tend to think that Widmore is lying about being "in charge" of the Others.

And how in the world are these guys ever going to figure out what the island needs them to do to fix everything?

I'm still waiting for more explanations for:
a) the smoke monster
b) Jacob
c) the statue
d) the pirate ship

-TP

#22. Posted by: tpull at March 5, 2009 1:48 AM

#18 somnambulist

time line would not work out for sawyer/juliette baby to be annie. this was the new "present', 1977. i'm givin ben the benefit of the doubt and say he was born in 1964 (gotta go check old horace's car out might give a better idea of year). ben looked to be around ten-eleven when rog and him arrived on island which would be around the time of the unskipping 1974ish. if i remember right annie was bens age, maybe a year younger so no way could she be born 77/78.

#23. Posted by: flegma at March 5, 2009 2:03 AM

it seemed like the statue had dog ears sticking up. did anyone else notice that?
i remember seeing this type of idol at the king tut exhibit. this would esplain 4 toes. if that is infact the ruins of that statue. anyone up on egyptian idols? also loved the onkh that paulie was wearing.
all this egyptian stuff is interesting. and hurley drawing a sphinx?! wtf?

#24. Posted by: flegma at March 5, 2009 2:16 AM

#23 flegma

You're absolutely right. Sorry about that. I got ahead of myself. That would make both her and Ben like 28ish?
My bad. Just trying to stay ahead of J.J. and Damon.

#25. Posted by: Somnambulist at March 5, 2009 2:23 AM

@ 24 - flegma:

I didn't saw it, but if you're right it could be Anubis, the Ancient Egypt God of the Dead. He's the jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the Judgement of the Dead. He would weight the heart of the dead one against the Feather of Truth and then, if worthy, would guide the soul in the afterlife.

That would make some sense with all Lost's mithology. But in what concerns the four toes isn't a sure thing. Anubis was mostly represented with a jackal's head in a human body. That includes the feet. Maurice, didn't I told him about the feet? :)

Mac GRAA!

#26. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 5, 2009 3:25 AM

If you're having trouble with the time travel, try to think of it like this:

Imagine if the whole show from Richard Alpert's point of view. If you watched his timeline straight forward all of these things would have alwys happened. There was never an alternate version of '74. Sawyer et al were always there.

Try to imagine editting the show in chronological order. This is the way it always happened. If we watched it in order, you wouldn't think of it in terms of people changing things. It would just be the way it happened.

#27. Posted by: Lupi at March 5, 2009 3:39 AM

God All Mighty! It just hit me after my last post...
Could it be that the eyeliner does not refer to piracy after all but, as someone already mentioned, to Ancient Egypt?
Could it be that Richard Alpert is, in fact, Anubis himself?!? Making lists of the worthy? Weighing the pure of heart? Expecting someone to lead his people like a Pharaoh would do?
Am I going to far?? Losing my self in Lost's and Ancient Egypt's mithology... oh! Dear God, now I can't rest my mind :(

#28. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 5, 2009 3:52 AM

Thanks Mac for getting us up and running so early.

If my facts are right, Ben arrived on the island in 76 and Charlotte was born in 79. So, that could not have been Charlotte that Daniel saw.

Interesting comment by Richard that the sonic fence can not keep his people out.

Even though I don't like it when people start with 'was that so and so in the background,' I must comment on the image of someone reading a book on a bench behind Sawyer when he was picking the flower - looked a lot like the young Ben. Time was right also.

It looks like Horace is the Dharma leader at this point. Can anyone determine if he is in Ben's house? That would give him access to the special room with the tunnel and the basement rooms.

Was Dharma just getting started in 74? Is Horace the head honcho. Who died and left Dr. Chang boss? Are our losties back to prevent the purge? Maybe stop or cause the 'incident?' I still think Daniel caused the incident. And I thought this episode didn't leave me with any new questions. DUH! There's lots more but I figure everyone's already thinking of them so I won't repeat.

It also looks like Locke and Ben did not arrive in the same time period as Jack and group. That station appears to be deserted.

And, I don't care how this show ends - it's been a wild ride!!


#29. Posted by: pebspostal at March 5, 2009 3:53 AM

22. Posted by: tpull
Doesn't work - Walt said Locke was wearing a suit in his dream.

#30. Posted by: hurling at March 5, 2009 7:01 AM

Its not an English accent its Korean :-)

#31. Posted by: maimon at March 5, 2009 7:21 AM

Daniel is so going to be on "To Catch a Predator: Dharma Edition". They even have a TV studio how convenient.

#32. Posted by: JJ at March 5, 2009 7:28 AM

I actually wished they will stumble into little Benjy and maybe James can slap him around a bit, for old (future) time sake....

The sneaky bastard deserves every bit of beating!

#33. Posted by: maimon at March 5, 2009 7:28 AM

And last one.... from last week.

What happened to Locke is exactly what happened to Christian.

I.e. dead dude in the trunkn on an airplane, POOF... special guy on an island.
Or was it the other way around only special guys live again

#34. Posted by: maimon at March 5, 2009 7:43 AM

Mac - your reviews...cracks ,me up!!!

I'm not sure why we didn't see the whole Sawyer and Juliet hook up coming, but I really didn't. Funny to see Sawyer all "lovey dovey"...he appears to be happy! I found it interesting that when Sawyer brought the flower to Juliet, she looked so "70's" like...her hair do especially. BTW...her jumpsuit she was wearing when Sawyer pulled her out from under the van read "Juliet", so no alias for her.

I need a re-watch...many good points brought out already that I didn't notice...statue...Ben's house... Interesting...

#35. Posted by: boodle at March 5, 2009 7:44 AM

One point I haven't seen mentioned. Even though they went back to 74, Sawyer and crew still had to wait the same 3 years that the O6 did in modern time before they returned to the Island.

#36. Posted by: wilcoy at March 5, 2009 7:45 AM

Did anybody else thought this episode was actually an older one?

I am from Australia so watching this from utorrent (please dont tell anybody) so I did not take the time to double check the torrent was good.

And in the first 5 minutes, until I saw the statue... I was sure it was an older episode descuised as a newer one.

That would have really ruined the evening for me, I was so happy to realize its a new one.

It was not a jaw-dropping episode, but a feel-good one :-)
James is the best... so funny how everyone is scared of him :-)

#37. Posted by: maimon at March 5, 2009 8:02 AM

@ mac love rhombus...makes me chuckle every time

@ 10. Posted by: Skipper

The bodies have to be buried so that the hostiles don't find them and realize that the truce has been broken.

@ 16. Posted by: Plain Simple

My sympathies. Are you suffering from temporal problems? Bleeding from the nose? I would be!

@ 20. Posted by: mtncbn

Sawyer knew about Locke & RA because he was there. He didn't give any details about their conversation, just what he saw: Locke marching into camp, Jughead, then Locke disappearing.

@ 26. Posted by: PreacherOnun

I like the idea of Anubis and judging the dead. That would explain why RA needed Amy's husband's body.

@ 29. Posted by: pebspostal

I agree that the Ajirans couldn't have been in 1974 because if they were the Hydra station would have been functional. Seems odd though that the island would "resurrect" Locke but not put him with the Others. Boy is Ben going to throw a fit when he finds out that he isn't with everyone else.

#38. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 8:02 AM

→ 14. Posted by: Mike
Was it Locke turning the wheel that stopped the hopping or was it his reappearance on the island that stopped the hopping? I'm thinking the latter.

Well,They had to wait 3 years for the return of Locke. So i thi k it was the fact of fixing the wheel that stopped the fooms.

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

→ 16. Posted by: Plain Simple

I would be OUTRAGED!
Hope you get to see it soon and look forward to your comments.
dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

17. Posted by: Christine Loves Los
wondered the same thing about Horace Goodspeed's "other" wife. Maybe they weren't supposed to save Amy and Horace was supposed to marry someone else...? Will there be a course correction?

I am thinking this too. From Faraday's mumblings, i think he's done this jump before and knows he will do it again. - until they all do it right and don't interfere with the past. The fact that you can't change the past is maybe the problem. They do interefere.

Faraday says
"I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna tell her" Meaning Charlotte. So maybe he's told her and not told her and it doesn't make any diffference.
She still dies.

So why'd her body disappear? Other bodies don't. Or is that what happens if you don't bury quickly? and in that case does it mean Charlotte was an other?

#39. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 8:08 AM

Best line:

'It would be on the cocunt telegraph by breakfast'

#40. Posted by: maimon at March 5, 2009 8:15 AM

@ 5 Posted by: FenwayBen

"Shaka, when the walls fell?"

Coffee came out my nose - but, well worth it for the laugh.

thank you!

#41. Posted by: Darmok at March 5, 2009 8:25 AM

flegma #24:
I thought the statue was vaguely Egyptian too. And the ankh that dead Paul wore, but Paul is Dharma and the statue is Others, so... what does that imply about Paul? And the fact that Amy removed the necklace and hid it and the fact that Horace was so upset about it that a fight ensued and Horace got drunk. Was Paul a mole?

Are we going to learn that Egyptians discovered the other end of that corridor and traveled there in Egypt's hay-day. Is that the eternal life that the Pharohs packed for? Is Richard an Egyptian, not a pirate?

FDW = Traveling from point A to point Z in the blink of an eye. The time skipping thing is incidental to the "travel corridor"?

The FDW didn't come with instructions so Dharma and the Others are figuring it out as they go?

Gotta go to work. I look forward to reading everyone's impressions of the episode!

#42. Posted by: undaunted at March 5, 2009 8:26 AM

I have mixed feelings about this episode. Still entertaining but I'm thinking back on the broad simple themes of season 1 and as a viewer I'm starting to get....Lost.

Point 1 Re: Faraway. Interesting theories about daniel having been through these jumps before and knowing that, like groundhog day, you can't mess with the past because you relive it until its right.

But I'm wondering this: if there are multiple daniels jumping around time, and he is conscious of it because he has a constant, then that might refute the groundhog day theory. Or does his groundhog day theory apply only to people that don't have a constant - thus the meticulous notes and testing. Seems he was motivated by something powerful to learn all the rules of time travel because he could go back in time and save Charlotte. The only motivation I can think of is love.

But when he gets to the place where he learns he can't he's crushed and gives up hope. It would explain the sudden shift from crazy scientist on a mission to depressed resignation.

Point 2 Re: return of O6 and Ben/Locke - I don't know an explanation separating O6 from the rest of the plane. How will '77 folks get off the island? Are they part of the purge? Does Ben know everyone's names from before because he remembers them from before? If that where the case he'd call Sawyer "Jim" instead of "James" in season 2.

#43. Posted by: rinz at March 5, 2009 8:30 AM

I'm very interested in the egyptian angle, too. And where does Tunisia fit into that? Is the island where life on earth began?

Also interesting that Jack and Company "landed" in 1974 but Locke and Ben are in 2007. I'm thinking it's because they turned the wheel and weren't supposed to come back.

But where are Sun and Sayid? And Frank Lapidus! I know he landed with the 316 survivors(anyone else notice the reference to John 3:16? just in time for easter!) but where did he go on the boat, and with whom?

And did I miss what happened to Rose and Bernard? I'm really hoping they weren't claimed by the flaming arrow attack.

#44. Posted by: Barbara Beatrice at March 5, 2009 8:35 AM

I did suspect we would have a Sawyer/Juliet hook-up, but I didn’t know it would be 70’s style. Hope he stays with Jules (who has his back), but I’m afraid FenwayBen might be right. As soon as Sawyer saw Kate, he got that old lovesick look on his face.

I totally forgot about Horace’s blond wife/earthquake teacher (Olivia). Wonder what happened to her?

Dead Paul’s cross necklace was an Ankh (the Egyptian symbol for eternal life). Horace should be worried :)

The statue looked like a woman from the back.

I’m very curious about the well-top with no well. How the heck does that happen?

How disconcerting to now realize that Ben probably met the Losties 30 years ago!! No wonder he comes off as all-knowing when he shows up as Henry Gale. That’s just awesome. And great point about the significance of Alpert personally recruiting Juliet off-island (2001). Could it be because Amy’s baby boy needed to be delivered safely? Amy’s baby must be someone we know, but who? The boy would be about 27 years old in 2004.

GRAA, Mac.

#45. Posted by: Clementine at March 5, 2009 8:35 AM

Where are Rose and Bernard and anyone else who might be left.

#46. Posted by: shenuzz at March 5, 2009 8:54 AM

In reading the comments today, I noticed that people were using RA for Richard Alpert. Ra is a major deity from Ancient Egypt. AND, the Eye of Horus (Eye of RA) is the symbol with HEAVY EYELINER. Richard Alpert is Ra.

#47. Posted by: Major Matt at March 5, 2009 8:56 AM

21. Posted by: mtncbn

So... Locke at the wheel was ancient history, the statue was still standing. Interesting that there was no Christian on this viewing. And now back to 1974, a well top with no well??? I give up!!

Woah! you are right. I have such a hard time catching these fooms. They were way back. OR way ahead if the people thinking about the others being from the future are correct.
i thought it looked like Sawyer's back. Mucsled arms, long hair...did it have horns? or ears that were funny? It'd wasn't a Vulcan was it. And it looked liked it was holding things in it's hands.

AH! I see 26. Posted by: PreacherOnun just mentioned Anubis. I think that would fit.

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
→ 29. Posted by: pebspost

And, I don't care how this show ends - it's been a wild ride!!

You know, you are right! And I have enjoyed every minute. So I resolve as of NOW to not complain about what the ending might be. Whatever happens, happens.

)))))))))))))))))))))))
so funny how everyone is scared of him :-)
→ 37. Posted by: maimon
That's cause they don't know how sweet he is underneath that curmudgeon exterior. Remember the pilot? I hated him! Mean nasty man.

#48. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 8:59 AM

What if Daniel hasn't lived all of this before? What if Ellie/Mrs. Hawking/his mother has spent his whole life filling him in on all of these details so that he can hit the ground running when he arrives in Dharma time. Would he really be changing things if he has always been there but came from the future understanding the back story? Knowing what has led up to everything in '74 would merely allow him to make educated decisions, right? Maybe this explains the notebook? He's taking notes on everything SojerMama has taught him.

#49. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 9:00 AM

Sawyer and Juliet...totally saw it coming. Their penchant for half-truths, they're both attractive, it gets lonely out there on the island when you've been rejected by Kate/ Jake. Something's gotta give (it up).

Always impressive to watch a master at work. Sawyer's lying ability is impressive. The best lies are woven with truth. Easier to remember, easier to believe. The Black Rock comment was brilliant.

Sawyer has an identity with Dharma and a home: two things he's struggled with all along. I'm so sad that he's going to lose this. It can't last, poor guy.

@mac Thanks for the Amy/ Michelle from 24 connection. It was bugging me.

Laughed out loud at Sawyer's eyeliner comment. They may be reading your recaps, Mac. If they comment on a scarf, I would try to get some royalties.

Viva la Lost.

#50. Posted by: lardiea at March 5, 2009 9:01 AM

@39 berkyo: "Faraday says
"I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna tell her" Meaning Charlotte. So maybe he's told her and not told her and it doesn't make any diffference.
She still dies. So why'd her body disappear? Other bodies don't. Or is that what happens if you don't bury quickly? and in that case does it mean Charlotte was an other?"

Faraday's ramblings are a result of thefact that he is trying to figure out in his head how he can save Charlotte if he can't change the past, since "whatever happened, happened." Charlotte, on her deathbed, TOLD Daniel that he told her to leave the island, and never come back. But she only just remembered it as she was dying. Just as Desmond remembered his encounter with Faraday at the hatch many years later, once he had left the island. This instant "remembering" is a result of someone changing something in the past. Since Charlotte remembered Daniel telling, he must actually go back and do it then. Or maybe it will turn out that it wasn't Faraday that told her afterall -- maybe it was someone else, as Charlotte said "I THINK it was you Daniel." It may not have been.

As to why her body disappeared, well, Charlotte is the first of those left behind on the island that we've seen die since the island started skipping. Possibly, upon her death, she is no longer dislodged from time. The island flashed, what, three times after Locke, Sawyer and the rest split up from Daniel & Charlotte? 1) Right after finding the Orchid station (then they need to find the well). 2) Right after Locke climbs down the well (well disappears, no Orchid station either, giant Statue is present. 3) Final flash. Well is back, but filled with dirt. Our group is stuck in 1974. I'm thinking Charlotte dies while the Orchid station still exists, since that is the closest time to the "present" time. The next two flashes result to them being sent into the past, the first WAAAYY back (statue), the second more closer to the present, but still in the past (Horace) nonetheless. Since they are in the past, then Charlotte's body may still be there at that specific spot, just in the present/future, at the time when she died...

#51. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 9:02 AM

Amy's baby not due for 2 weeks and was going to take the sub to the "clinic" to have the baby. Sawyer and Co supposed to get on sub the next day, but given 2 week reprieve when sub returns...meaning...?

I wondered why Paul's body had to go with Richard and then thought that Richard needs to take Paul's body to show the Others that perhaps their 2 men and Paul died in a shoot out. Richard is sparing Sawyer...why...because Sawyer knows all this stuff from the past...?

What must happen in that 2 week reprieve that not only has them staying (and after Horace proclaimed that they were not "Dharma material"), but becoming an intrical part of the Dharma Initiative society...the security team. Would seem to me as part of any society or group, those who serve as security are well trusted!! What happened to put them in this category...the newcomers protecting the group.

Yes, Horace and Amy's house...definitely Ben's house. But then again, that house is the "leaders" house and Horace is the Dharma leader in the 70's.

What is it with Horace and trees. He's drunk and blowing up trees...when Locke sees Dead Horace, he's cutting down trees. What's up with that...?

Didn't have a good look at little Charlotte's mom...maybe heard her speak a few words...

So, Daniel told Juliette that when the flash came and they all jumped, Charlotte did not...resulting in her body being gone. Does that mean that Charlotte is now dead in the present time...on the island...? Or did she (her dead body) jump to another time...? Whew...so tired...maybe good to have a break next week to process everything.

Sun was definitely in the scenes for next episode...holding Jin's ring.

#52. Posted by: boodle at March 5, 2009 9:04 AM

One thing that's not been mentioned in weeks is Rose and Bernard. I think this almost gaurentee's that Rose and Bernard are the Adam and Eve found in the caves. It would be the next place they knew to find shelter after the arrow attack on the camp, and they were missing for 3 years.

Of all the people/things/smoke monsters that keep appearing on the island, it's been a VERY long time since we've seen one: Vincent.

Ben and his father have to be on the island. The timeline just seems to put it that way. If that's the case, do you think (old) Ben will kill his father (again) when he sees him? What will happen when old Ben and yound Ben high five afterwards?

What a brilliant way of explaining (the whole stuck in '74 bit) all the things we were wondering about. Much better to witness it all with the characters we love than hear about it second hand.

When John saw Horace in his vison, Horace was building the cabin. Does this mean we are going to witness the beginning construction of sed cabin?

#53. Posted by: The Other Other at March 5, 2009 9:06 AM

I wanted more of 4-Toe! :(

Wacky theory of the week: Sawyer turns into Tom (Mr. Friendly). He is grumpy but in charge. He tells Kate that "he's not into her" (in the shower). And the ironically Sawyer shoots "himself" on the beach.

#54. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 9:06 AM

@26... "could be Anubis, the Ancient Egypt God of the Dead. He's the jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the Judgement of the Dead. He would weight the heart of the dead one against the Feather of Truth and then, if worthy, would guide the soul in the afterlife."

@47. "I noticed that people were using RA for Richard Alpert. Ra is a major deity from Ancient Egypt. AND, the Eye of Horus (Eye of RA) is the symbol with HEAVY EYELINER. Richard Alpert is Ra."

I think I need to brush up on my Eygptology, in my spare time, of course.

#55. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 9:08 AM

Suprised that there aren't more comments about Alpert's statement that the gates don't work with them. I think this lends some credibility to the others not being alive.

#56. Posted by: Mike at March 5, 2009 9:08 AM

@47 Major Matt: "In reading the comments today, I noticed that people were using RA for Richard Alpert. Ra is a major deity from Ancient Egypt. AND, the Eye of Horus (Eye of RA) is the symbol with HEAVY EYELINER. Richard Alpert is Ra."

Great Observation!! Remember the symbols on the hatch countdown clock? Egyptian Heiroglyphs! I saw eqyptian symbols on the stone structures surrounding the well (right behind Juliet in one scene), as well as (IIRC) on the outside of the Temple! Hurley drawing the sphinx! The FDW sending people to the Tunisian desert! Now the Ankh! And Richard Alpert's eyeliner (R.A. = Ra)! And Horace = HORUS! Clearly an Egytian mythological theme going on here...

#57. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 9:15 AM

I mentioned in last week's edition that Richard Alpert plays a very important role in this wonderfull show. This episode only proves my point. Richard is obviously the leader of the hostiles in 1977. It's the first time that I can think of that he is actually angry about something. We see him arguing with Goodspeed through the window.

Richard describes the hostiles has "his people" as well. We do not see a middle aged Wildmore come and speak on behalf of his camp.. Is he off the island already?

Something else that has been bothering me...Goodspeed mentions that Darma has been having problems with the
indigenous people of the island. Where did these people come from? Wildmore is obvisouly british. I believe we saw a couple African American hostiles as well. Is Alpert recruiting people off the island that may have valuable traits and can help the cause. I think he must be...How can he get off the island without the submarine?? How was he able to visit a young John Lock when he was just a child in the late 50's early 60's. Richard is the key to the whole mystery. They need to have a Richard Alpert centric episode

#58. Posted by: Michaelmvp at March 5, 2009 9:24 AM

→ 51. Posted by: Stocky
Since they are in the past, then Charlotte's body may still be there at that specific spot, just in the present/future, at the time when she died...
Thanks, This makes sense. You are right.

#59. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 9:28 AM

Hi all,
Just a comment before I read thriugh all the posts...
You said it, Mac, Horace IS a moron, and I'd like to know who put him in charge of the Dharma people, who are supposed to be high-IQ scientists and such. I mean, someone who goes on a blowing-up-trees rampage because he had a little fight with his wife? Not someone I would think Dr. Candle-wick would put in such a position of authority.

#60. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 9:32 AM

This is Wikipedia's timeline after the O6 left. helpful.


http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline:2005_and_beyond

Off to work

#61. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 9:33 AM

just my two cents the baby born on island is none other then john locke just a guess though :D great review as usual, i am still downloading way to go mac:)

#62. Posted by: abhishek at March 5, 2009 9:36 AM

I loved this: after Lost, the announcement said something like, "Let's get back to the 70's with Life on Mars" and then the opening shot on that show was a closeup of someone's eye. Is that a comment by that show's producers/writers as to the fact that they "lost to Lost"? Ha ha...

#63. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 9:37 AM

@20 mtncbn: Locke ran into Sawyer's gang after the Jughead FOOM. We should assume Mr. Blabbermouth told them about all his adventures on the way to the well with the FDW.

#64. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 9:41 AM

@ #5 Fenwayben -- Shaka when the walls fell! HA! Loved it.

#65. Posted by: Wendy at March 5, 2009 9:41 AM

I think we are headed for a bad soap opera, "As the Island Turns," starring James and Juliet Spooner. James is the wise and witty sheriff of Mayberry. Juliet is the grease mechanic ObGyn. Remember, it was not just Sawyer-Kate relationship, but Juliet and Jack were also getting cozy before the island started to jump.

#66. Posted by: welh at March 5, 2009 9:45 AM

My guess it that the baby is Jacob. The only successful birth on the island.

#67. Posted by: Melissa at March 5, 2009 9:52 AM

@67 Melissa

Interesting...hmmm...

#68. Posted by: boodle at March 5, 2009 9:54 AM

I'm confused about something: When Locke was trying to kill himself, Ben told him that Jack bought a ticket on Oceanic, but presuming he meant the fact that Jack was using his "Golden Pass" to fly to Sydney, didn't Jack start doing that AFTER Locke's death and his guilt over it? When Jack met with Locke, he had no intention of going back to the Island, it was only after Locke DIED that he wanted to get back. So Ben was lying to trick Locke into thinking he convinced Jack.

#69. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 9:56 AM

I wonder if Nestor Carbonell took offense at the writers putting Sawyer's eyeliner comment in the show, or if he told them to, going along with the joke, like a good sport.

#70. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 9:58 AM

RE: Christina


You notice that jack was already growing a beard when he spoke to Locke at the hospital. I think that Jack was already flying and using his golden pass. I think that he lied to locke and didnt want to give in to him. I think that Ben said what he did to simply lie to John. Im sure Ben was aware that Jack had been buying tickets for weeks probably.

#71. Posted by: Michaelmvp at March 5, 2009 10:00 AM

-My guess is that the baby will be named Jack Bauer....

-Can't remember after which time jump this happened, but they showed Miles and his hair was almost completely grey. Huh?

-Very curious about the statue, but from behind it looked like it had long hair....so who could it be with long hair - Horace, old school Alpert, no way it's Sawyer, female maybe?

-I hope Faraday doesn't try to ask out 2yr old Charlotte...AWKWARD!!!!

#72. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 5, 2009 10:09 AM

@ 47 Major Matt said "...people were using RA for Richard Alpert. Ra is a major deity from Ancient Egypt. AND, the Eye of Horus (Eye of RA) is the symbol with HEAVY EYELINER. Richard Alpert is Ra."

@ 57 Stocky wrote "...And Horace = HORUS!..."

Excellent, excellent points. I have a nagging sneaky suspicion though that that's what the story was going to be, but now that you've figured it out it's going to be something completely different.

@ 67 Melissa posited "...My guess it that the baby is Jacob..."

I love the idea of Richard bringing Juliet to the island to deliver the baby that could very well turn out to be Jacob.

I'm sorry to say though that you're completely wrong.

Clearly the baby is Moses and John Locke is actually Yul Brynner...

Haven't named the little milk-vomiter yet, have they?

#73. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 5, 2009 10:16 AM

@ 44: Jack and Company "landed" in 1974 but Locke and Ben are in 2007.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure how - but it does. As with this whole show we're on a ride so hang on.

When they were going back and forth during those three years I was really getting a headache, but as it went on they smoothed it out very nicely.

And the whole Egyptian Hieroglyphs comment was fantastic - the symbols on the count-down clock, Ra, the statue, I'm thinking we're seeing a pattern, and I'm liking it.

@ 58: Richard is the key to the whole mystery.

I agree with this and we have to know that what we're watching is only a blip re: the islands time line.


#74. Posted by: dk at March 5, 2009 10:18 AM

@ 69 Christina posted "...When Locke was trying to kill himself, Ben told him that Jack bought a ticket on Oceanic..."

I had much the same question. In re-watching last week's ep, Ben stated that Jack "booked" a ticket, not bought.

I'm sure he used his OA Golden ticket to Wonkaland...I mean Sydney...

#75. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 5, 2009 10:20 AM

Why are the Dharma orientation videos always black and white? Just looking at the videos, without any other reference to time, I would have put them in the late 50's or early 60's. We now know that they were made in the 70's. I was in elementary school in the 70's and have vivid memories of watching full-color, tape-reel movies. I will never forget that red stop sign flashing at me in all of those stranger danger/safety videos. There's probably not much significance, obviously you can make black and white video at any time, but the thought ocurred to me and struck me as odd.

#76. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 10:23 AM

@ #23 flegma
'My bad. Just trying to stay ahead of J.J. and Damon.'

Good luck with that. Lemme know how it's goin'.

#77. Posted by: onelostdude at March 5, 2009 10:23 AM

My Bad for incorrect post number

@ #25 Somnambulist
'My bad. Just trying to stay ahead of J.J. and Damon.'

Good luck with that. Lemme know how it's goin'.

#78. Posted by: onelostdude at March 5, 2009 10:27 AM

JJ I love that comment regarding Daniel

Sit down. Would you like some cookies. I made them.

#79. Posted by: AbeFroman at March 5, 2009 10:27 AM

This show is getting SO confusing -- I'm beginning to feel like Daniel (sitting on the floor and muttering). My brain hurts.

#80. Posted by: Erin at March 5, 2009 10:31 AM

So I was thinking about Locke and Christian Shepard for some reason last night.

I think that the Christian that we've seen on the island is alive and well. Since Locke survived the "crash" of flight 316, and he was taking Christian's "place", it would make sense, to me, if Christian survived also.

#81. Posted by: Erika with a "K" at March 5, 2009 10:32 AM

So Alpert and Ben recruited Juliette in 2001 so that she could deliver the baby in 1977, right?

#82. Posted by: Rudy at March 5, 2009 10:34 AM

@56. Posted by: Mike
re: Sonic Fence and Alpert

If anything, I think his comment likely means he can bypass the sonic fence because a) he has the code (meaning, he has someone on the inside), or b) he is using an underground tunnel (which we know exists, as we saw Ben use it to summon Smokey when Alex was killed).

@55. Posted by: lost2theworld
re: Egyptology

Man - this show better not start pushing Egyptian religion and values on us, because that would make me uncomfortable ;)

#83. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 10:35 AM

another favorite line was when sawyer said "thanks anyway, plato" to daniel after his "what happened, happened." comment. I laughed out loud.

#84. Posted by: james at March 5, 2009 10:36 AM

Question: When John saw Horace in his vision, wasn't Horace's nose bleeding, or am I misremembering that? Could it be that Horace might be jumping around in time, too?

Terrific episode. I loved how happy Sawyer appears to be. I really hope he tells Kate that it ain't gonna happen. Don't go away mad, Kate. Just go away.

#85. Posted by: Tinkerbean at March 5, 2009 10:37 AM


My questions are:
Where are Rose, Bernard and Vincent (the dog)??. I really miss them, I loved those 3 characters.

I saw James and Juliet together since the end of season 3, when they go to the camp and are saved by Hugo and the van.

If this new boy is somebody born in 1979, my guess would be that he could be the biological father or Aaron (the one who was with Claire waaaaay back in Season 1. We never got much information about him, and it would be about time.

#86. Posted by: Tinchorama at March 5, 2009 10:38 AM

@82 Rudy...and 67 melissa...and 73 ransom

I am with you Rudy...I am having a hard time wrapping my head around Alpert and Ben knowing they would need Juliet in 2001 to somehow get her to 1974 to deliver a baby...am I missing something? How would they know in 2001 that Juliet would be necessary in 1974 if the group hasn't started jumping time yet? Any explanations for this out there?

@26 preacheronun et al...I am LOVING all the Ancient Egyptian connections here...I am having a eureka! moment reading all these posts!

I hope that our survivors can high tail it out of there before meeting young Ben or else they may very well wind up in the Dharma purge...unless somehow they die and become Others...huh???


And I can't help but still think back to the flash that was seen and the sounds that were heard when Des turned the fail safe key in the hatch...what if that first flash made time start jumping but we, as viewers, didn't realize yet what it was? Could this throw off our theories on the timeline now?

#87. Posted by: Vikki at March 5, 2009 10:41 AM

@83/Shikotee: You WILL kneel before Anubis! (Wait, wrong show.)

#88. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 10:44 AM

Oh come we did not see Widmore come to the Dharma group. I thought that Widmore said that he was the leader for 30 years. Widmore was lying!

#89. Posted by: AbeFroman at March 5, 2009 10:46 AM

Another great review Mac. They just get better and better.

This was my favorite episode this season so far. I loved seeing the statue from behind, loved the addition of Michelle/Amy in the show, and I loved how Sawyer smoothly handled RA and how his mojo paved the way for their comfy 3 year Dharma life. The whole Sawyer/Juliet romance thing actually resonated with me as awesome...it seems like a natural progression for that 3 year period with reformed Sawyer being responsible and honest and Juliet just being hot Juliet. And it is the 70's...so since they can't be with the ones they love...

And now that Sawyer indirectly admits to Horace that he's over Kate, that he can barely remember what she looks like...it'll be interesting to see how they interact in the coming eps. And how he and Juliet explain their feelings for each other to the rest of the Losties. Plus, to add to the drama, Juliet and Jack were always hot for each other as well. At least Jack & Kate were pretty lovey-dovey before leaving for the island again...so it may not even matter to them that Sawyer & Juliet are doing the horizontal hoochie.

The past few eps were great, but this one was awesome. Hope it continues down this path.

#90. Posted by: JoePike at March 5, 2009 10:49 AM

When did Horace turn into the lion from Wizard of Oz.......whats up with all these bug-eyed / David Coverdale lookin guys getting all the hot tail in Dharma world. Juliet looks like a women, not Sarah Connor in T-2 (Kat) - good work Sawyer......she is a walking petri dish though - resident Island hew-wer.

#91. Posted by: Diggler at March 5, 2009 10:50 AM

Where are Rose and Bernard? WARAB
Where is Vincent? WIV

and...

When did Jack fly? WDJF

RED PAIN, RED PAIN, danger, SOS


@ 83. Posted by: shikotee

Yep, we must avoid all mention of God/gods, religion, ethnicity...shall we start compliling a list? Heaven forbid we offend someone. Oops shouldn't have mentioned Heaven. ;)

@ 86. Posted by: Tinchorama

The baby could be Aaron's father...interesting. Unless that whole course correction thing ends up biting them in the rump and ruining everything. That poor baby could be doomed.

#92. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 10:50 AM

@ Abe at least someone liked the joke.

Also RA was there because other leaders do not negotiate with peace loving hippie terrorists directly. Widmore could still have been kingpin. RA is always under orders. He is the islands Abaddon and he gets people where they need to be.

#93. Posted by: JJ at March 5, 2009 10:52 AM

u have to get back or everyone will die
in the war between the others and dharma
how did they know that the island would get stuck in 1974 b4 the purge

#94. Posted by: mike625 at March 5, 2009 10:53 AM

Jack read Bentham's obit flying back from Sydney, so he already using his golden ticket to try to find the island. It would seem that Ben would not have to really convince to to go back.

#95. Posted by: onelostdude at March 5, 2009 10:55 AM

Have to add for all of the ladies out there that I much prefer "dirty Sawyer" to "freshly laundered Sawyer." It just didn't seem right. I want him to go roll around in the mud.

OK...must...step...away...from...the...computer.

#96. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 10:56 AM

There's been a thread running through this show from the very beginning & while watching the pop-up re-run of last weeks ep I started to wonder about it. Why did they feel it was necessary to remind us that Walt is being raised by his grandmother? Also consider that AAron isn't being raised by his birth mother. It also appears that Sun's child Ji Yeon(?) is being raised by Sun's mother. Then consider that all the Dharma Mom's don't survive so their children are all being raised by soneone else. What's up with all these kids being raised by someone other than their mother? Remember back in season one, the psychic told Claire that SHE must raise her child. This theme has been like a pot simmerring on the back burner for a long time & I think it's about ready to boil.

#97. Posted by: cookie at March 5, 2009 11:12 AM

More Lost funnies. Sing to the tune of "Three Blind Mice"

http://tinyurl.com/afzbyb

#98. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 11:14 AM

The survivors of the most recent plane crash said that the pilot and a woman ran off on one of the boats. (Frank Lapidus and Sun????)

I like how three years has passed on the island now, before the O6 return. It evens out.

Also, I prefer Sawyer with dirty hair, rather than the clean hair from last night's episode. Weird?

#99. Posted by: Staci at March 5, 2009 11:14 AM

@86. Posted by: Tinchorama
re: Rose, Bernard and Vincent

Now that we've seen Sawyer and crew integrated with Dharma, my best guess would be that they must be with the hostiles - aka Alpert's crew. This is of course, based on the assumption that they were jumping in time like Sawyer and crew. Where else could they spend 3 years? I doubt they would be with Dharma - how many mysterious people could they possibly recruit, after all!

re: Horace the leader

I don't get the feeling that he is the leader of the entire Dharma Initiative. He does seem to be the guy in charge of maintenance/security/inventory on the island. Everyone that we have seen him "employ" (Roger Workman, Lafleur, Jin etc) are limited to those types of jobs. Dr. Candle seems to be the man in charge of the scientific/research aspect of things.

And man - I totally thought Amy was going to turn out to be that Degroot's woman - founder of the D initiative!

Oh... and - Vincent is Jacob. Jacob is Ra. Ra is Cindy's Scarf. Duh! It's the new trinity! (though not a trinity, as it involves 4 - would you call it a quoadity?)

#100. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 11:15 AM

@57. Posted by: Stocky

"Great Observation!! [Major Matt]Remember the symbols on the hatch countdown clock? Egyptian Heiroglyphs! I saw eqyptian symbols on the stone structures surrounding the well (right behind Juliet in one scene), as well as (IIRC) on the outside of the Temple! Hurley drawing the sphinx! The FDW sending people to the Tunisian desert! Now the Ankh! And Richard Alpert's eyeliner (R.A. = Ra)! And Horace = HORUS! Clearly an Egytian mythological theme going on here..."

I too am intrigued by the Egyptian theme. Thought about Horus, too, and all the hieroglyphics. I'm going to go even farther out here and posit that Alpert (or the ancient source of all this) is Phoenician. He looks a little Berber, and their culture mingled with the Egyptians. Remember what Charlotte said about Carthage? Carthage is in Tunisia and was a Phoenician city. What's more, the Phoenicians had a fertility goddess, Tanit, "a heavenly goddess of war, a virginal mother goddess and nurse, and, less specifically, a symbol of fertility". According to the Wiki entry, there is evidence that children were sacrificed to her. I want to go along with the observation that the statue was female, and I also think it was a different statue from the four-toed ruins seen from the water. That and $4.50 will get me a Starbucks coffee.

#101. Posted by: Glostover at March 5, 2009 11:16 AM

-16 Plain Simple

I share some of your (red) pain. Here in Phoenix, Direct TV lost the ABC signal for the first 20 min of LOST. They reran the entire ep at 1 am, which I recorded for later viewing.

Am I the only one who thought "Jeff Probst" when RA arrived, walking through the sand with his torch?

When Juliet first spotted RA, she briefly closed her eyes. And she had that Juliet smirk. Was she thinking: "Not again" or "He finally arrived" Or what? She knows much more than she's letting on.

GRAA, Mac. Thanks for the much-needed chuckles this morning.

#102. Posted by: lovelost at March 5, 2009 11:21 AM

Hi All, didn't notice anyone mention this yet.

In regards to the Well, did anyone notice that it was never a well at all? There was no water at the bottom if it when Locke went down, only a cavern and the FDW.

When we "Foomed" while Locke was mid-climb, Sawyer was holding onto the rope, so the rope remained with them when they ended up in "Long Ago" (where they see the Statue, which I am agreeing that it looked like Anubis, and am loving all the other Egyptian connections you all have found).

Anyway, my point is, if the Rope is there in ancient times, then maybe THAT is why the well is built in the first place. It was never to get to water. Someone (maybe the Natives/Hostiles) see the rope leading to nowhere and decide to dig to see where it goes, and this is how the FDW is discovered originally. Perhaps they realize what it can do, perhaps not. They disguise the hole as a well.

At some point, they discover how the wheel can be used and, recognizing the dangers in this, they fill in the well, so others (Dharma perhaps) cannot utilize it.

Just a thought!!

#103. Posted by: Scoosh at March 5, 2009 11:23 AM

@88. Posted by: PiecesofArzt
re: You WILL kneel before Anubis! (Wait, wrong show.)

Now that Lost has a time travel and Egyptian mythology element to it, one thing is absolutely "crystal clear" certain....

That it has been way too long since I have watched Doctor Who and the "Pyramids of Mars".

http://tinyurl.com/c6lcfw

Tom Baker's scarf would DESTROY Cindy's scarf....

#104. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 11:28 AM

@87 Vikki... 82 Rudy...and 67 melissa...and 73 ransom

I dont think they brought her there to deliver that baby. I think that is just the way it ended up. I am just guessing the the baby is jacob.

#105. Posted by: Melissa at March 5, 2009 11:32 AM

Nerd Alert! When I was in high school I had my mom make me a Doctor Who scarf and then wore it to school for several weeks.

#106. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 11:38 AM

There is no way the baby is Jacob.....could it be John?

#107. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 5, 2009 11:39 AM

The Dharma doctor who could not deliver the baby--could he be a young Ethan? He has that awkard look.

Sure he is just an internist in 1974, but in 2004 Ethan is the Other's surgeon and apparently in the future has some gyno/obstetrician experience. Certainly he could learn a thing or two in 30 years.

What also makes me think that the Interist from 1977 is Ethan is that Juliet (the pregnancy doctor) is doing a mechanic's job. When Sawyer comes for her, she slides out from under a truck. In the season 3 premiere where we get our first glimpse of Otherville, we see Ethan (the doctor) do the same thing

#108. Posted by: Bas at March 5, 2009 11:43 AM

The baby is not Jacob because during 'Jughead' Locke mentioned Jacob so it can not be Jacob.

My guess is that the baby is Goodwin. What a twist!

#109. Posted by: AbeFroman at March 5, 2009 11:50 AM

TELWTBP (the eyeliner line was the best part)!!! ... loved how they added that in.

So I only got to post 4, and I know that others have mentioned it because I kinda skimmed, but where are Rose and Bernard and the other beachies???

I'm not sure if anyone said this already becuase I'm not sure how to look for it, but does anyone think that Horace knew who Ben was before Ben got there? (Obviously not only because Roger told him, but becuase he either met him, or because he found out about the time thing and Sawyer or Jules told him about the purge or something to that extent).

I know this is probably really out there but it would kinda explain the reaction that Horace had when he first met young Benjamin Linus.

Problems with this: If he knew about Ben or the purge, the purge would have never happened and he wouldn't have broght Roger and Ben to the island.

Now it sounds stupid...

Anyway, Horace looked madd grimey in this episode.

I'm starting to not mind Juliet. I hate Kate though. I actually like Juliet and Sawyer together.

There are so many posts!!! Time to read! =]

#110. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 5, 2009 11:54 AM

i know this doesn't really pertain to this ep - but its something i've recently seen, upon reviewing an episode from last season.

in the funeral home, with jack viewing locke/bentham's body - when ben arrives, they discuss that a MONTH has passed from the time Locke visited jack, to when Locke was murdered/suicide. So WHAT HAPPENED in that month. There's still lots more to that story, IMO.

#111. Posted by: B Mar at March 5, 2009 11:58 AM

@47/Major Matt: "In reading the comments today, I noticed that people were using RA for Richard Alpert. Ra is a major deity from Ancient Egypt. AND, the Eye of Horus (Eye of RA) is the symbol with HEAVY EYELINER. Richard Alpert is Ra."

Could the statue be Ra?

tinyurl.com/6qlaer

#112. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:04 PM

There was major focus on that submarine. Who is allowed to come and go on it? Also, no one...including Juliet...ever says: why don't we just take a plane? I have a point there; just don't know what it is yet.

La Fleur. Perhaps Sawyer is a hockey fan. ;-) I know, I know....it means flower. Sawyer gave Juliet a flower.

#113. Posted by: lovelost at March 5, 2009 12:04 PM

I think this episode continues to confirm my suspicion that the show is about the afterlife. That all the characters are not in the real world; they are all dead. The Egyptian mythology on the afterlife is the basis for the characters journey through the underworld to judgment.

I think it is not about time travel but recreation of “place” in order to test the characters (souls) to determine if they are worthy to remain in the afterlife or be destroyed into non-existence.

The concept of “place” over “time” is evident in the clear statement that the Hydra station with polar bear cages is in use in 1974-77 with the Sawyer group is on the main island while Locke and the 316ers are at the abandoned Hydra station in 2005-2008 time frame.

Each character is being put into a new situation (place) to determine whether they are able to Change. For example, Sawyer’s soul has been reset to a situation or place where a murderous con man can change into a the peaceful, wise sheriff of Dharmaberry. For example, Locke was returned to a “real” world setting with a simple mission to bring people back, but he utterly failed in his own right. He now has an opportunity in a new place with the 316ers where he could change from pathetic suicidal loser into the special leader.

I also believe that Widmore, Alpert, Abbadon, Hawking, Brother Campbell are all on the same team. They are all judges from the underworld who are testing the characters to determine whether they are worthy for redemption and rebirth.

#114. Posted by: welh at March 5, 2009 12:04 PM

So is the Orchid beside the FDW and the Hatch is beside Jughead?
Or is the FDW run on the energy from Jughead?

#115. Posted by: Rudy at March 5, 2009 12:05 PM

-113 my previous post re: Juliet

What I meant was: when Juliet first arrived....she didn't question the mode of transportation.

#116. Posted by: lovelost at March 5, 2009 12:06 PM

Can someone please explain to me this truce business? From my perspecitve it looks like the Hostiles broke the truce by killing Paul. So...why is RA so self-righteous about it? Also...WHY did he need the body?

#117. Posted by: Shana at March 5, 2009 12:06 PM

@109. Posted by: AbeFroman
"My guess is that the baby is Goodwin. What a twist!"

That is what came to my mind!
He just made a slight change to Goodspeed!

What a skank Juliet is!
She delivers him as a baby, then bangs him as an adult. WHACKED!

@106. Posted by: PiecesofArzt
re: Doctor Who scarf

LoL! Total Nerd alert! My older brother actually learned how to knit, and made both versions of the Tom Baker scarf. I always tried to snag 'em, but he kept them protected under lock and key!

#118. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 12:06 PM

Re. Erika # 81

I can see where you are coming from but lets remember that John Locke was told my Alpert that he had to die in order to bring back the Jack and crew. I think that Christian is an apiration. We have seen several throughout the seasons. Kate saw a black horse, Hurley interacted with his imaginary friend ( I believe is name was dave) Ecko saw his brother, etc etc.

Locke is walking around amongst the new castaways having mango's and interacting with everyone. Christian has always been very mysterious on the island. He has only been seen by a couple of people, Locke and Claire.

#119. Posted by: Michaelmvp at March 5, 2009 12:09 PM

@ 8. Posted by: Steve at March 5, 2009 12:20 AM

Biggest thing on this episode to me was Juliet delivering the baby - and mother and baby living. - Her recruitment by Alpert ties into that.

I agree with you Steve. I think that they brought Juliet to the island to deliver the baby that we saw born last night. This makes me believe that this new baby boy is going to end up being someone VERY important. And the father of this baby is also very important. I mean, why would Alpert want to take his body back to his people? Yes, it could be to prove that one of the Dharma folks was killed, but I think it is much, much more.

#120. Posted by: Paulo at March 5, 2009 12:09 PM

@120 Paulo: "And the father of this baby is also very important. I mean, why would Alpert want to take his body back to his people?"

Paul, whose body was taken, was not the father of this baby. Goodspeed fathered the baby, three years after Paul died...

#121. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 12:12 PM

@72 Red...Neck...Man

Yes! I noticed Miles' gray hair, too, and wondered about that...does anyone else have a theory about that?

#122. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 12:13 PM

And another thing. I think that the "eyeliner" comment by Sawyer was the best Lost quote since the show started.

It also makes me believe that this is just one subtle hint, many more to come, that the Lost writers are using viewer comments on blogs to help build the story (A lot more than we suspect).

#123. Posted by: Paulo at March 5, 2009 12:15 PM

@45/Clementine: "The boy would be about 27 years old in 2004."

Yes, and that eliminates nearly of the potential male Losties ... except perhaps Charlie? Or maybe Desmond? We know nothing of his childhood ...

#124. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:16 PM

what about the list that the others gave to Michael? bring back Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sawyer. Those are the 815ers in 1974 right now.

#125. Posted by: jiggy at March 5, 2009 12:16 PM

as for interfering in past time lines, whatever happened has already happened. So in the past Sawyer did save Ames and did live with Dharma. And Faraday will eventually warn Charlotte. They are not changing anything, eventually Dharma will get purged.

I think Alpert is like Locke's current state. Died and resurrected, walking among mortal and will not age as both are not mortal anymore! Christian on the other hand is not in the same league as he is still a half-ghost, visible only to certain people and cannot physically interact with mortals (couldn't help Lock to get up)

#126. Posted by: aj at March 5, 2009 12:17 PM

Re: Juliet and baby delivery - It seems to make sense that since Juliet is the only person to have successfully delivered a baby on island, RA and Ben will have known this and then later on searched her out to bring her back hoping she'd be able to do it again.

Re: time travel in general - maybe someone has already mentioned the book "The Time Traveler's Wife". Having read that book makes me much more comfortable with the time traveling on Lost and how you can't change the future. It's a good read anyways, but I'd definitely recommend it if the Lost time travel rules elude you.

Re: this episode - I LOVED it. I think Sawyer's character progression has been so cool. He has found his stride as a leader and seems to have more purpose in his life. It's interesting to watch S1 episodes and contrast that Sawyer with who we're seeing now.

Do we have confirmation about if Cesar and Ilana knew each other pre-flight? At the beginning of the episode last night it sounded like Cesar called her "Ila" which seemed to indicate a familiarity between them. Anyone know?

Also, I'm trying to figure out if all the different factions fall into specific categories of spiritual belief. We've got Egyptian symbolism coming out very heavy now, the Christian stuff got very intense in previous week with Ben's speech, the dharma/namaste folks, and then there's the people with more of a european philosophers approach (widmore). Oh and the science base, like Jack.

#127. Posted by: alteza at March 5, 2009 12:17 PM

Miles could also be of the right age ...

#128. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:18 PM

Re: #44
You wrote that Ben and Locke are in 2007 and that Sawyer and the gang is in 1974.

I think they are ALL in 1977.
3 groups:
1) Sawyer, Jin, Faraday etc...
2) Jack, Kate, Hurley
3) Ben, Locke, Sun, Lapidus, Sayid, etc...
Now, we know group #1 and #2 are at the same timeframe. We know that because of the ending last night. The question is Group #3. When are they? I think for plot line, it makes sense that they are in 1977 too.
I think they are all in 1977 which would set up a cool senario for future episodes.
How about down the road we see Sayid, Ben Locke and the rest of them are actually hanging with the Hostiles. There will be the "Big" showdown between the Hostiles and Darma. This will pit the main characters as we know them against each other.
EX. Sayid, Locke, Sun etc.. vs Sawyer, Jin, Jack etc...
It will be interesting to see how they would react seeing the other group of people on the other side.

#129. Posted by: Lost is Found at March 5, 2009 12:19 PM

Why would Sawyer, et al choose to stay with the Dharma people, when they KNOW eventually Ben's gonna wipe them all out via the purge? Sawyer clearly got RA's attention (respect?) with his little talk, so it seems reasonable they could've very easily offered to go with him as part of the body exchange, rather than stay with the DI people, and I doubt if Horace would've objected ...

#130. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:21 PM

@ → 17. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at March 5, 2009 12:59 AM

Maybe Ben and Richard brought Juliet to the island knowing that the baby they have is Annie. Another way to think of it would be they brought her to the island to save her and the baby so that in the future, Horace does not marry the person we see as his new wife (the teacher).

#131. Posted by: Paulo at March 5, 2009 12:22 PM

@117 Shana

I think Amy and Paul broke the truce first by picnicking beyond the fence. I'm guessing the truce means the Dharmaites and Hostiles must each stay on their side of the sonic fence. When Amy and Paul decided to have a picnic beyond the fence, they broke the truce and were then subject to the Hostiles actions (harsh as they were).

#132. Posted by: gusty at March 5, 2009 12:25 PM

→ 100. Posted by: shikotee
re: Horace the leader

I don't get the feeling that he is the leader of the entire Dharma Initiative.
------
I might beg to differ. He's 'da man calling the shots for the fate of Sawyer and crew (for the time being) and also took the lead to represent the camp during Alpert's arrival.

#133. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 5, 2009 12:29 PM

@39/berkyo:
"wondered the same thing about Horace Goodspeed's 'other' wife. Maybe they weren't supposed to save Amy and Horace was supposed to marry someone else...? Will there be a course correction?

I am thinking this too. From Faraday's mumblings, i think he's done this jump before and knows he will do it again. - until they all do it right and don't interfere with the past. The fact that you can't change the past is maybe the problem. They do interefere."

Interesting idea! Perhaps Faraday is the only one thinking along these lines, and will end up "interfering" with what he perceives as the rest of the Losties messing with the "correct" timeline ...

#134. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:31 PM

A couple people hypothesized that the baby could be Locke. Since the baby was born in 1977 this can not be.

#135. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 5, 2009 12:32 PM

@117/Shana: The truce presumably is in place because the Hostiles/Others don't think they should share their island with Dharma. Maybe they couldn't stop them building stations all over the place? Or it was a continuation of the military project from the 1950's overrunning the island?

@129/LostisFound: Locke's group would presumably be in the future because they came across a deserted station.

#136. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 12:41 PM

@134 ealgumby: "The fact that you can't change the past is maybe the problem. They do interefere."

Faraday's point is that it doesn't matter if they interfere or not, it won't change anything. If they DO interfere, it is because in the course of time, they ALREADY DID interfere,and that is how things came to be as they are. If they DON'T interfere, it is because they never did in the first place.

I think the ONLY posible exception to this we have seen would be Desmond seeing the flashes of Charlie dying, and then preventing it from happening each time (until the last time anyway). But we already know that for whatever reason, Desmond is special with regards to time-travelling, so maybe he is the only one who could "interfere," however as Eloise Hawking clearly stated, the universe has a way of "course-correcting." In the end, Desmond and Charlie both realized that no matter how many times, or what Desmond did to keep saving Charlie, in the end, he was meant to die, and so he did. And so, in the end, Desmond's "interference" did nothing to change the events that had already taken place (when looked at from the perspective of the 2008 timeframe, the future-most time we have seen to date (unless the 316'ers are sometime in the future, and not in 2008 as some of us suspect)).

#137. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 12:50 PM

@29/pebspostal: "I must comment on the image of someone reading a book on a bench behind Sawyer when he was picking the flower - looked a lot like the young Ben. Time was right also."

Don’t know if that’s Ben you saw, but you’re right about the timing … little Ben would be on the island then! Which makes me think Sawyer et al must have bumped into Roger Workman by now, and simply MUST realize teenage Ben is skulking about, nurturing the megalomaniacal seed germinating deep within the cranial recesses behind those growing bug-eyes!

#138. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 12:50 PM

Ladies, I agree...

I'd take Dirty Sawyer over clean Sawyer any day!! Although it was nice to see him smile... I don't think Dirty Sawyer ever did that.

#139. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 1:00 PM

******NOT A SPOILER - JUST A RUMOR******

There are posting around the internet that Kate (Evie Lilly) will be leaving LOST.

I repeat - it's just a web rumor at this time.

But if she is leaving...could they write her out of the show by having her get im-jack-nated, and giving birth on the island causes her demise?

Maybe she's going into the West to be with her Hobbit...

***** END OF NOT A SPOILER *****

#140. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 5, 2009 1:00 PM

@mac

>In "LaFleur" we learn that Locke's spin of the frozen donkey wheel accomplished two things:

>It stopped the island from skipping through time, which means Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Miles and Daniel will not share Charlotte's squishy-brain fate.

>It deposited the island in 1974.


I don't think we know the island skips though time. It's the Losties who are skipping. The island was always there in 1974 - that's how Dharma came there then.

=====

>Regardless, the Juliet-Sawyer pairing means we'll have a full-blown Love Rhombus when Jack and Kate make their awkward return.

Make that a pentagram. Don't forget Ben considers Juliet "his".

=====

The instant I saw Sawyer/LeFleur's Dharma logo, I shouted out "There's a new sheriff in town, boys!"


o~~~~~~~~

@1 LostInConnecticut wondered:

>Remember early in the season there was that shot of Faraday while the FDW was being "discovered". I think that was in the very first scene of this season (I can't find it in the reviews... I miss Mac's old-style more complete reviews!)

Mac mentioned it in his review "Key Points from "Because You Left" and "The Lie""
in this paragraph:

>Speaking of Dr. Chang -- Where, exactly, does the opening scene from "Because You Left" fit in? Seeing as *Faraday* appears, I'm guessing the connective threads will be revealed down the road.

o~~~~~~~~

@10 Skipper asked:

>Wonder why the Hostile's dead bodies have to be buried well? what's that all about? Well, I think we all know what it's about.....whispers?!

I think Horace wanted to prevent the Hostiles from discovering that the truce had (or at least appeared to have) been broken. Their people would be 'mysteriously missing' but not known to have beeen killed. Sawyer, hoever, pulled off a more direct approach.

o~~~~~~~~

@16 Plain Simple groused:

>wtf? Turns out they showed Lost two hours earlier than the usual time here (and there was no extend-Jeremy Bentham at all). Why? WHY?!

Where's "here?"

And may I take this opportunity to you and all the others who haven't already done so to stop by the "Lost Blog Readers' Map" blog (just scroll down a little on the index page) and plop in a pin on the map to register your location along with hundreds of other fans of mac?

Last week my local (Raleigh) ABC station (or maybe it was Time Warner Cable) managed to drop the whole last segment of "Lost". Nothing from the moment when Ben strangles Sawyer to the beginning of "Life on Mars" but commercials. I didn't get to see it until the Enhanced Replay this week.

o~~~~~~~~

@35 boodle asknowledged:

>I'm not sure why we didn't see the whole Sawyer and Juliet hook up coming, but I really didn't.

I called it from when the shirtless Sawyer came up from the surf after dropping out of the helicopter.

o~~~~~~~~

@39 berkyo wondered:

>So why'd her [Charlotte's] body disappear? Other bodies don't. Or is that what happens if you don't bury quickly? and in that case does it mean Charlotte was an other?

Charlotte's body didn't disappear - it just no longer jumped (being dead) when Daniel did. From his point of view it appeared to dissappear, but from a non-time traveler's point of view, he FOOM!ed out of existence, leaving a decaying body behind.

o~~~~~~~~

@48 berkyo remembered:

>That's cause they don't know how sweet he [Sawyer] is underneath that curmudgeon exterior. Remember the pilot? I hated him! Mean nasty man.

Remember the nasty smoking habit he had? Island's cured that.

o~~~~~~~~

@69 Christina puzzled over:

>I'm confused about something: When Locke was trying to kill himself, Ben told him that Jack bought a ticket on Oceanic, but presuming he meant the fact that Jack was using his "Golden Pass" to fly to Sydney, didn't Jack start doing that AFTER Locke's death and his guilt over it? When Jack met with Locke, he had no intention of going back to the Island, it was only after Locke DIED that he wanted to get back. So Ben was lying to trick Locke into thinking he convinced Jack.

No, Jack was flying before Locke died - remember he learned about Locke's death in a newspaper clipping in a paper handed to him aboard one of those flights. But this particular flight must have been after he'd met Locke, because the name in the clipping that Jack recognized was "Jeremy Bentham".

o~~~~~~~~

#141. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 5, 2009 1:02 PM

Do Sawyer and Juliette even know about the Purge? I think only Locke knows about it. And Richard.

#142. Posted by: Rudy at March 5, 2009 1:03 PM

@137: I can't help thinking that someone or some group is trying to hold back one massive course correction for whatever means. Similar to how Desmond kept forestalling Charlie's death. The pressure is building to a pitched fever, and there are people like Hawking working mightily to let it take its course. Then again, who the hell knows.

#143. Posted by: Scot at March 5, 2009 1:05 PM

Speaking of dirty versus clean characters ... when RA met little Ben in the forest, he was all long-hair-hippie with grungy clothes, but last night he was clean cut, ala '54 RA. Both scenes *should* be fairly close in time ... probably means nothing (continuity error?), but noticed it anyway ...

#144. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 1:05 PM

Nice review again MAC.

This analysis may be apropos of nothing, but has been bugging me for some time. Juliet never seems to be "surprised" by anything - not sure whether it is just the actors style or what? But, any event, however unusual, god, or bad, seems to just be accepted by her with a shrug as inevitable or as matter of fact.

Is she some type of Island Ancient that has seen it all?

#145. Posted by: yim02 at March 5, 2009 1:07 PM

@143/Rudy: "Do Sawyer and Juliette even know about the Purge? I think only Locke knows about it. And Richard."

She mentioned it specifically last night ...

#146. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 1:07 PM

All I have to say (those in the Phoenix area will know exactly what I'm talking about) is:

It's VICTORIA'S SECRET HANDSHAKE!!!!

#147. Posted by: Gumbo at March 5, 2009 1:10 PM

Re: Michael #119

very very good pontius....you shot holes in the one piece of foresight that i had on this show....everything is tarnished now and i must be alone with my thoughts now...i think i will go into the west, like galadriel.

#148. Posted by: Erika with a "K" at March 5, 2009 1:13 PM

@133. Posted by: IslandHopper
re: Horace the leader

Yes - Horace certainly has power and authority in his position, but this hardly makes him the "Lord of Dharma". As an organization, I would assume that Dharma has a logical and structured hierarchy, much like any organization in the real world.

Horace's power/authority is likely limited to his job function, which so far seems to be limited to maintenance/repairs/supply chain management of the various Dharma stations. He also has control of security, for as there are hostiles on the island, he obviously has to take care of his people.

When Alpert arrives in Otherville, they naturally would send the head of security to talk to him, as security has obviously been breached.

When it comes to taking in Sawyer and crew, my guess is that he developed a fondness for them (due to Sawyer helping several times - likely even more during the 2 week extention), which compelled him to slip them into Dharma. From what we know, Horace likes to help people (such as Roger and Ben), because he is a nice guy.

I wouldn't be surprised if he lied to his superiors about his new additions, making it seem like they arrived with the new work crew via the sub.

The concept of "the leader" is mere poppycock insurgent propaganda that can be found within the natives of the island...

#149. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 1:13 PM

I love the fact that no matter what, Sawyer can't get a break.

He lies off the island, lives happy for awhile, and then the truth comes smashing down.

He lies on the island with dharma, lives happy for a year years, and now it looks like the truth will come smashing down.

#150. Posted by: schiano at March 5, 2009 1:29 PM

If Horace is a Dharma guy--then why in an episode last year does to show him building the cabin for Jacob in a pseudo-dream sequence of John's. Isn't Jacob part of the Others??? Why would Dharma even know about Jacob. And his nose started bleeding during the time he was talking to John also. Confusing.

Also, love the idea that everyone is putting out there about RA being Egyptian. That statue was definately Egyptian--the moment I saw it that is what I thought.

#151. Posted by: benlinusrocks at March 5, 2009 1:40 PM

commenting on ransomjackson's
******NOT A SPOILER******

Can't remember where--EW maybe? But I read that Evangeline Lilly had auditioned for a new show which sparked the rumor of her leaving Lost. when asked about it she debunked it and is supposedly going nowhere...

and @145 ealgumby
I find it hard to believe that Dirty Hippie Richard was a continuity error. Wouldn't it be easier for them to just let him wear the same khakis and blue shirt he wears all the time? They went out of their way to make him look different. Hope it gets explained eventually. Maybe he liked pre-Dharma Sawyer's look and was trying to ape it. Then Mr. Lafleur let him know that he held the copyright to the old Seattle grunge thing...Is there a Starbucks in Bensylvania?

And speaking of RA's look I loved the eyeliner line as well. I love when the producers shoot the fans a reminder that they're paying attention to us.

#152. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 5, 2009 1:41 PM

Remember the picture in Ben's house of the Juliet look-a-like? What if it's 1977 Juliet? Does Ben get a crush on her?

I find it odd that they would be comfortable around Ben in 1974 even if he's a kid. Wouldn't you want to whack him then and there?

Also, lots of people can deliver babies, not just fertility doctors. She has a different purpose.

Oh, and young doctor= Ethan. totally.

#153. Posted by: EthansGirl at March 5, 2009 1:51 PM

@ 112. Posted by: ealgumby

re: Statue of RA

You've got me convinced, it sure looks right to me. All the way down to the stance, although I guess that was common in all egyptian images.

#154. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 1:53 PM

" But Sawyer and Juliet intervene with some high-calibre namaste and save the day. "

- just made my day. Thanks Mac

#155. Posted by: trexl at March 5, 2009 1:53 PM

@ those who think the young Dr. is Ethan.

I don't see how that could be possible... If the intern was in his 20's wouldn't this make Ethan in his 50's? He sure doesn't look that old to me.

#156. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 2:00 PM

@154 Ethansgirl
How could the young doctor be Ethan? Ethan would have to be pushing fifty if that were the case...

#157. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 5, 2009 2:01 PM

@21/mtncbn: “So... Locke at the wheel was ancient history, the statue was still standing. Interesting that there was no Christian on this viewing. And now back to 1974, a well top with no well??? I give up!!”

Call me stubborn, but this still smells of just being too “obvious” in my mind. We have seen no definitive evidence of “when” the well was constructed and eventually destroyed, nor the statue for that matter. I will grant that the statue appears to be ancient, but we don’t know when it collapsed, do we? Given that things are certainly weird on the island, I’m still not convinced the FOOM to no-well/Locke-in-the-FDW-cave time was ancient history …

It could just as well follow this timeline:

( ) The FOOM before the well was built was back to 1954, and the statue still stands! Why not? We have no proof otherwise.
( ) As someone suggested above, the rope buried into the ground is discovered by the RA/Widmore crew (perhaps with helpful guidance from Jacob?), and they dig the well down to the bottom of the rope, and find the cave … this could be any time after 1954 and before 1974, probably completed by the late 50’s.
( ) The FOOM to when Locke enters the well is maybe the early 60’s … after all, the rope looked mighty fresh to be anything other than recent, a couple years old at most.
( ) The FOOM to 1974 after Locke turns the FDW shows the well destroyed. This could simply mean there was an earthquake or other such event (The Incident?) between the early 60’s and 1974, which collapsed the well, in addition to the statue, at that time.

Most probably consider this a stretch on my part, but can’t help but feel that the prevalent “they FOOMed back to ancient times” concept is exactly what D&C expect everyone to be thinking, so it’ll come as a viewer shock later to find that was not the case.

Can’t shake the thought that the FDW is a capstan from The Black Rock, as its wooden/metal construction seems inconsistent with the ancient stonework of the Temple and statue. How did it get there then, you might ask? Perhaps there is/was a cave down to that point, maybe an old lava tube from the volcanic origins of the island (there are a lot of these to be found in Hawaii and other volcanic locations today). Further, perhaps the lava tube ran from the FDW cave all the way to the Temple near the coast, as lava tubes typically terminate in coastal areas. This lava tube could’ve provided the original access to the exotic matter locale, and was also used by the Black Rock people to “fix” the original stone wheel by replacing it with the capstan from their boat. And as the island is volcanic in nature (any South Pacific island would be), perhaps the volcano rumbles out of dormancy sometime in the late 60’s, causing the earthquake which fills in the well and brings the statue down.

I know, I have zero evidence to justify any of this speculation … I just think there’s not enough evidence to prove they FOOMed way back in time either though!

#158. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 2:11 PM

@150/shikotee: “Yes - Horace certainly has power and authority in his position, but this hardly makes him the ‘Lord of Dharma’. As an organization, I would assume that Dharma has a logical and structured hierarchy, much like any organization in the real world.”

The DeGroots family founded the Dharma Initiative, and as such, would sensibly be in charge … Horace is the Island manager.

#159. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 2:16 PM

→ 150. Posted by: shikotee

---- I wouldn't be surprised if he lied to his superiors about his new additions, making it seem like they arrived with the new work crew via the sub.-----

They were recovered from the sonic blast delivered from the "fence", so probably unlikely Horace "snuck 'em in"

----When Alpert arrives in Otherville, they naturally would send the head of security to talk to him, as security has obviously been breached.----

Good points on Horace and the "Head of Security" power/position, but when Richard Alpert shows up with the burning torch and pitchfork, Otherville might want a negotiator beyond "Head of Security".

Also Horace, as the architect of Jacob's Cabin, might suggest a little more (per a recent post).

Agree, he does come off a little bit like Andy Griffith, Sheriff of Mayberry, but think his legacy will confirm there's more to the picture than meets the eye.

#160. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 5, 2009 2:26 PM

I'm struck by the irony of Juliet's original Other life vs. her new 70's era Dharma life. (Did she and Sawyer end up living in the same house she used to live in?)

In modern-day Otherville she was in love and happy in her relationship with Goodwin, but she had BEN and his evil crush to deal with, her frustration over dying pregnant ladies, plus her burning desire to vacate the island forever.

In 70's Dharmaville she's in love and happy in her relationship with Sawyer, but has no evil crushes to deal with, delivers a healthy baby to a very alive mother, and has no apparent desire to leave her life on the island.

It's like she got to do her island life all over again but in a much more normal and happy way.

Unfortunately that's all about to change since Jack and Kate have returned...

#161. Posted by: JoePike at March 5, 2009 2:27 PM

Ok. So Faraday's only purpose on this show is to tell us that this is how things have always happened, and whatever the 815ers do in the 70's has always been done by them in the 70's.

Let's keep that in mind.

Also, the 815ers in 1977 either get off the island before the purge, OR (more likely) join RA before the purge.

Also, the Others (led by RA) give Michael the list of Sawyer, Kate, Jack and Hurley to bring back. These same 4 that are in 1977 now (I read somewhere that Jin gets eaten by a polar bear). Obviously these 4 are considered important by RA.

Jack is clearly THE pivotal character in this series - his father, grandfather, step sister on his father's side and nephew have figured into the island.

I think it's logical to conclude that the 815ers in 1977 not only join RA, but play a vital role in the future of the Others (from the inside), and whatever war that Whidmore mentioned. It is also quite possible that RA + 815ers are on the opposing side of Whidmore + Locke in this war. Ultimately, Jack will decide the future of the world.

#162. Posted by: jiggy at March 5, 2009 2:28 PM

Not to beat the Egypt theme to death, but there was another Egyptian character called Ma-at who guided Ra's sun boat's course. Ma-at would be Matthew who was "the driver"...?

#163. Posted by: sandivon at March 5, 2009 2:29 PM

@29 and @138 re Ben sitting on the bench in the background as Sawyer is picking the flower...

That looks like a woman to me...maybe has her legs crossed. The person seems to be too tall to be 10 year old Benjamin...

#164. Posted by: boodle at March 5, 2009 2:30 PM

I realize I'm speaking of a week ago, but when i turned on the recap of last weeks epi, I caught the part where Locke was about to hang himself... Ben says to him "John, let me HELP you..." just found that interesting from a week's perspective...

#165. Posted by: Three Men and a baby ( I counted Hugo twice...) at March 5, 2009 2:30 PM

@162, Jiggy

You may be on to something....but how does WALT figure into this whole thing? Have you considered what his role is/was.

Also, Sayid, Sun and Hurley....They weren't on "the list"...will they ultimatly survive any purge? They must, in order to have boarded flight 815 in the first (last) place.

#166. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at March 5, 2009 2:33 PM

Assuming all this FOOMING happened just after the O6 left. Then add in the resulting 3 year span for both groups before they reunite, is seems the island time in 74-77 is somehow tied to to present time 05-08.

#167. Posted by: wilcoy at March 5, 2009 2:34 PM

@82 Rudy

Looked at the episode again and it does not appear to be young Ben. Looks like a woman with short hair to me.

#168. Posted by: Paulo at March 5, 2009 2:34 PM

Ultimately, Jack will decide the future of the world.
→ 162. Posted by: jiggy

Couldn't agree more. I posted last week that Jack and Granddad Ray could be one in the same. Introducing Ray "basically out of nowhere" certainly might have future implications.

#169. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 5, 2009 2:37 PM

@160 IslandHopper: "Also Horace, as the architect of Jacob's Cabin, might suggest a little more (per a recent post)."

Didn't Horace tell John Locke that he was building the cabin for "him and the mrs."? Maybe he was building the cabin after they had the baby, and moved to it when it was finished. If the baby does turn out to be Jacob, then this could lead to how it became Jacob's cabin as well. I personally don't think the baby was Jacob, because, like someone else mentioned, Locke told Alpert in 1954 that Jacob sent him, so Jacob couldn't be around in 1954 and then be born in 1977... correction -- I guess he could, because if the rest of the group (Sawyer, Juliet, et. al.) were all born well after 1954, but can time-travel back to 1954, why couldn't Jacob? Time-travelling makes so many things that seem unlikely to become possible... confusing, but possible....

#170. Posted by: Stocky at March 5, 2009 2:41 PM

@156/lost in ca; @157/Crispy Seaplanes:
Richard doesn't look too worse for the wear as a 90+ year old man, why would Ethan age if the island prevents it?

#171. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 5, 2009 2:51 PM

Here's a theory on Amy:

Amy's response to Sawyer after saving her from the "others" was that Paul was not her "friend", he was her husband. As someone mentioned previously, maybe Paul was a mole.

Well, what if Amy figured this out, and she is the one who lured Paul out for a picnic, killed him, and then the Others response was to try to capture her? She murdered one of their kind, which led to the truce being broken, as Richard Alpert suggested.

#172. Posted by: NC Lost fan at March 5, 2009 2:52 PM

Okay, maybe doctor isn't Ethan. sigh.

I just had a wacky idea. What if Jacob is reincarnated into babies born on the island? What Locke saw could be a reincarnation of christian, but not necessarily jacob.

maybe they are waiting for the right child to be born on the island?

Please poke away at my theory...

#173. Posted by: EthansGirl at March 5, 2009 3:02 PM

Could christian be a 'place holder' for Jacob until THE baby shows up? A Jake baby, perhaps?

#174. Posted by: EthansGirl at March 5, 2009 3:05 PM

@159. Posted by: ealgumby
re: "Horace is the Island manager"

Manager works for me.
He's the guy that keeps things running on the island, but has little to do with why it is running.

If I had to guess his back story, I'd say he attended college with the Degroots, they became friends, and this lead to his involvement with Dharma. Horace strikes me as the kind of guy who is in for trying to save the world! He's pretty much a hippie!

Naturally, this is pure speculation, much like the various counter points are speculative. Not enough info to formulate anything definitive.

Further speculation - Who knows how much power/influence the Degroots had over things. They may have been the brains behind things objectives, but in the real world, the financeers hold the power. Forgetting my Lost mythology, but was not Hanso the $$ behind Dharma?

#175. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 3:08 PM

Well, there goes some of my theories....

Horace is being called "the leader?" I think he's the "Blue color" leader or boss. Or just the "on the island" boss--- but I'm sure the scientists (Candle) are like the Doctors of a Hospital. They might not be the "Manager" but they are in charge.

I still think Whitmore is in charge of all of Darhma, but he's rich and does not need to live on the Island, wants to have peace so his people can do experiments.

Think the young Ben will arrive soon-- probably.

#176. Posted by: Bus Said at March 5, 2009 3:09 PM

Ok, my guess about what ultimately is going on..The events on the Island always happen, just who is there when it happens changes..
The record idea got me thinking: Play that Funky music is always the same regardless if song by Wild Cherry or Alvin and the Chipmunks..
Even though people have already lived out their past, now in their present knowing things from the past doesnt change anything for them in the future..Does that make sense.
So, again flight 815 will crash in 2004 (?) yet their will be different survivors, each destinged to follow the path of the original oceanic survivors..

#177. Posted by: UsetheSchwartz at March 5, 2009 3:17 PM

1542 comments on EW.com Blog--- all short answers and a waste of time---though Doc writes an oksy recap.

I did catch that Charlotte was said to be born in 1979 (when Ben gave her Bio). So maybe there are there from 1979 until 1982-- remember the Apple II computers cam out in. About the time the Hatch station was done in the 80s?

#178. Posted by: Bus Said at March 5, 2009 3:21 PM

I forgot this earlier. I'm so totally impressed by Juliet's ability to talk down crazy people. She calms Jack down at the Hydra, she talks Daniel down while he's blathering about Charlotte, she helps Sun keep perspective during her tense ultrasound. She's smooth like Dharma butter. Jack could learn a thing or two about her bedside manner. Sawyer sure seemed to...

I vote for dirty Sawyer, too. Clean- cut and happy just doesn't do it for me. Tortured, sweaty, and angry is much more fun. Not sure what that says about me now that I read it. Gotta love the bad boy, I guess.

#179. Posted by: lardiea at March 5, 2009 3:21 PM

@176. Posted by: Bus Said
re: Horace - "Blue color" leader

Exactly what I was thinking!

re: Widmore in charge of Dharma

Not sure about this. From what we saw, Young Widmore was with Richard and the hostiles.

Widmore claims three decades of island involvement (which is very much different from the 30 years everyone keeps assuming! 1959-1970 is the span of 12 years, but it is also 3 decades!).

My feeling is that Dharma pre-dates Widmore, but I could be wrong...

#180. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 3:31 PM

@156/lost in ca; @157/Crispy Seaplanes:
@171/PiecesofArzt

Then if it were Ethan wouldn't he look the same in 1977 as he did in 2004 just as Richard did?

#181. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 5, 2009 3:39 PM

@5: Timba his arms wide...

#182. Posted by: theoldred at March 5, 2009 3:46 PM

And Ethan was an "Other" which means he would have to defect from Dharma to become a Hostile who then took over Otherton after the Purge.

#183. Posted by: Rudy at March 5, 2009 3:49 PM

@21 (that's how far I am)

"So... Locke at the wheel was ancient history, the statue was still standing. Interesting that there was no Christian on this viewing. And now back to 1974, a well top with no well??? I give up!!"

Where the well was is where the Orchard Station is being built in 1977 (If those dates are right, but may be off). Yes, the covered well in 1974. Daniel 3 years later made discoveries/ helped Dahrma, helping to find the keys to time travel.

The young Ben might already be there and Sawyer & crew have no idea. Maybe they will bump into him soon.

I like the way the story is going-- a good surprise or two every week is better than too many questions.

#184. Posted by: Bus Said at March 5, 2009 3:51 PM

I like ealgumby's point that Locke wasn't necessarily in the ancient past when turning the wheel. We don't know that the statue may have been intact until relatively recent times. It seems weird that all the FOOMs would be between 1954 and the present but just that one FOOM was centuries ago...
Seems more likely that it was a more recent FOOM and the statue just had not been destroyed yet.

and @5
Loving all the references to STTNG
Always loved that episode...though we should change the spelling here to DHARMAK and Gilad at Tenagra...

#185. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 5, 2009 3:57 PM

162. Posted by: jiggy

"Jack is clearly THE pivotal character in this series - his father, grandfather, step sister on his father's side and nephew have figured into the island."

I agree. I've posted basically the same thing for the last few weeks. It can't be inconsequential that we've been introduced to an entire family of characters that have extensive ties to the island.

Now on to a more inane point...

I'll take my "dirty Sawyer" comment one step further for all of the ladies. I seem to remember some of the guys on this blog getting all hot under the collar over Juliet and Kate's rumble in the jungle and again over the death of Alex, so pardon me for a moment.

Wouldn't it be great if "freshly laundered Sawyer" got in a smack down with "preppy Des" (scarf, sunglasses and all) from England. I vote for it to take place in the middle of a mud pit in the jungle. I couldn't care less what this fight would be about, but...aaahhh...a girl can dream, right?

#186. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 4:02 PM

@141 Cecil Rose:
About Jack flying on OA BEFORE Locke's death, thanks for clearing that up, but I still wonder what made Jack change his mind...he was adamant about not going back to the Island, and then all of a sudden he starts taking OA trips back and forth hoping to crash? Was it the comment about his father that Locke told him?

#187. Posted by: Christina at March 5, 2009 4:06 PM

One other real point: I don't think it is a big deal that there was no Christian in the scene with Locke and the FDW this week. I figured it was just expediency in story telling to let us know that we are picking up with Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Jin right after Locke turned the FDW. Makes sense, right?

#188. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 5, 2009 4:07 PM

The "son" that was born in 1977 would be 27 in 2004. The only person I can imagine the son would grow up to be is ... Karl.

Here's something that I think about often. I can't tell if it was a red herring. What about Henry Gale, the black dude in the balloon????? Who was he???? What was that all about????

#189. Posted by: DC-Matt at March 5, 2009 4:07 PM

Sorry ... forgot one more thing on my mind:

Regarding Jacob ... Okay, we haven't see Jacob since "Help me".

Hurley found Jacob's cabin ... but Christian was inside.

And then when Locke visited the cabin again, he spoke with Christian, who presented himself as a spokesman for Jacob.

So: Could Jacob's first words ("Help me") be a clue into what's happening??? It seems to me that Jacob is no longer in his own cabin. Instead, Ghostly Christian Shepard has taken over and seems to be giving instructions to Locke.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH JACOB???

#190. Posted by: DC-Matt at March 5, 2009 4:15 PM

@189/DC-Matt: "The 'son' that was born in 1977 would be 27 in 2004. The only person I can imagine the son would grow up to be is ... Karl."

Karl is simply too young, college age at best in 2004. My money is on Desmond ... he was in basic training in '96 (18-19 years old), so in 2004 he'd be 26-27 years old, just the right age. I also think that's why he was able to "stumble" upon the island on his own ... he has a special connection to it.

#191. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 4:30 PM

@ 186. Posted by: lost2theworld

Re: Sawyer vs. Des

I like the way you think, girl!!

#192. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 4:34 PM

@190/DC-Matt: "WHAT'S GOING ON WITH JACOB???"

Ever since the FOOMing started, I've wondered if Jacob had been time-skipping himself all along ... hence the apparent difficulty in tracking him down. Now that Locke reset the FDW, perhaps he has settled into "normal" time flow like the rest, at a date yet to be revealed.

#193. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 4:35 PM

@187 Christina speculated:

>I still wonder what made Jack change his mind...he was adamant about not going back to the Island, and then all of a sudden he starts taking OA trips back and forth hoping to crash? Was it the comment about his father that Locke told him?

That's my guess. If someone came to me today and convinced me there was some possibility, however remote, that my father was still alive (d.1976) I'd move heaven and earth to find out if it was so.

#194. Posted by: Cecil at March 5, 2009 4:49 PM

@180 back ------ Yes, I meant Horace = “Blue collar" Dharma leader. Sorry about the spelling. Horace surly did not need to go through all the big-wigs to bring a dork like Roger Workman to mop floors, so, seeing someone with leadership like skills, probably doing some heroic things soon, Sawyer and the group gained trust and then gained positions. Sawyer moving up “ to a bigger house.” Nobody needs a background check for that type of work in 1974?

I still think Whitmore was in charge of “His People” from maybe about 1959 to 1989 (Then there was the Purge—Ben looking older). Whitmore’s people was an offshoot of the original 1954 Others. They became two groups maybe around 1959: Alpert’s Hostiles and Whitmore’s Dharma. They kept the peace with guns and barriers. I said this last week and I still believe it. . .
“Whitmore’s temperament in 1954 showed him to be someone who does not cooperate well with others. He gained some allies as they found Island secrets, separated from Richard’s group (soon to be miss-called Hostiles), discovered a way/ left the island (with Mrs. Hawking--Eloise). Took some of its “magic,” became rich in the real world, created Dharma to find/exploit other Island secrets, especially the one of eternal life. Richard, leader of the Hostiles, is guided by the only real “good guy,” Jacob, is always searching for the ONE who will save the island. He thinks it’s Ben for many years. Maybe after they conducted the Purge, Ben found the way to make it so no one could find the island for 20 years, thus he gains the leadership, kept it through manipulation and now of course wanting that power back doing anything he can to get it.
Now recently possible to find the island with the Hatch blown. That’s why Ben went there alone in season 2 as he knew it was important for the numbers to be punched in—maybe he’s the only one who new/ cared about that station, maybe he was there when it was turned on 20 years ago to hide the island— he wanted those in there to have guns, stay in there on fear of contamination, he recruited new people for it---- so keeping the real “good guys” out of it.”

#195. Posted by: Bus Said at March 5, 2009 4:57 PM

First post...

@56: I like the idea that the Others (but not everyone else) are 'dead'. What if they are dead, and possibly recruit new dead people, but they have to be ruled by someone living?

Would explain a few things:

- The Others recruiting off-island (alive) people like Ben, possibly Widmore and later Locke as leaders.

- Other women not being able to have children. (We never saw whether Sun really would have died - maybe it wasn't being on the island that was the problem, maybe it was being dead? Hence the old lady wombs...?)

- Dharma lady Amy being able to have a healthy baby, and other Dharma children like Charlotte being born normally.

- Various dead people walking around: Christian and newly dead Locke, Ben's mother when he was a kid and Locke's father when he was brought to the island right after dying in a car crash.

Locke is now dead too of course, but has fulfilled his purpose in bringing a new live leader for the Others (Jack?)

Doesn't explain everything of course so it's probably wrong. Juliet for one is not dead, we presume. If she is though, that could be a nice twist...

#196. Posted by: Jo at March 5, 2009 5:04 PM

Oh oh, and, way back in like series 3 or whenever it was, when Ben tells Locke that some of his people aren't 'fully committed' yet and it helps them to think they can leave whenever they want... Well that would make sense if they're dead and either don't realise, or haven't come to terms with it yet.

My first coherent Lost Theory. I'm so excited.

#197. Posted by: Jo at March 5, 2009 5:14 PM

I tend to agree with the person that suggested RA and Ben recruited Juliet because she had delivered a healthy baby whose mother lived, seems to make more since maybe, though with all the time travel who knows.

Do we know if babies concieved on the island could not be born on the island always or if it was a recent development? I am not sure the fact that the pregnant women of Dharma usually left the island to have their babies means anything. That could have just been because there wasn't anyone really qualified to deliver the baby.

@128. Posted by: ealgumby concerning Miles being the baby: I think that would give Horace a new reason to go out and try to blow up trees.

#198. Posted by: Sue at March 5, 2009 5:18 PM

wow, hard to keep up with such fast and numerous posting!!
the egyptian mythology is just getting too prevelent to not start thinking something is up with it.

@42 clementine
"Are we going to learn that Egyptians discovered the other end of that corridor and traveled there in Egypt's hay-day. Is that the eternal life that the Pharohs packed for? Is Richard an Egyptian, not a pirate?"

i think this is a great idea. if the statue is of "anubis", he is the protector of the dead and was often seen sitting on tombs. as per wiki, the greeks often associated him with cerebus (smokey).
welh @114 i think you're onto it.

@58 michaelmvp
i think the richard-centric episode will be the finale when he is revealed to be RA.

all this is crazy... red rain flowing from my nose...
sorry for the ramble

#199. Posted by: flegma at March 5, 2009 5:18 PM

anyone have any ideas on why the fdw is frozen?? it is on a tropical volcanic island, not a very likely place for a frozen cave. does it have to do with the exotic matter? it seems darhma was prepared for it by having parkas made.
has this been covered before? sorry if it has.

#200. Posted by: flegma at March 5, 2009 5:21 PM

One more thing about Locke turning the FDW, and then I’ll try to let it go …

I’ve looked again and again (and AGAIN!) at the scenes from both epis where we see Locke turn the FDW, and I am certain the wheel is broken when he turns it … the arm/handle/spoke just emerging from the other side of the wall is snapped off, I’m sure of it. Before this week’s epi, I assumed that damage had happened after Ben turned the wheel, but I now concede Locke turned the wheel first. So why was the wheel “fixed” when Ben turned it? I have a few ideas …

First of all, this could be explained by Widmore’s crew digging the well down to the cave (if my timeline speculation mentioned earlier in this thread is correct) … when they got down there, they found the wheel broken, and repaired it. Perhaps this is even the reason they dug the well in the first place … maybe Jacob instructed RA to do so.

Second, as Locke apparently turned the wheel first, maybe Widmore turned the wheel next (I assume how he got off the island), and just rotated the broken spoke back behind the wall, so it appeared “fixed” when Ben turned it the third time.

Finally (and I do not like this possibility because it’s way out there, and hence unlikely via Occam’s Razor), the island could be a nexus between alternate universes/realities/timelines, with the wheel broken in one, and not the other. In one “reality,” four-toed Egyptians rule the planet, and the other “reality” is the world as we know it. Perhaps the “war” Widmore spoke of was between these two realities, competing for ultimate existence; this would certainly make the stakes of the outcome very high. Like I said though, I really don’t like this option, because even for Lost, it’s just a little too weird. I’d still like a peek at RA’s feet though, just to see if he has only four toes!

#201. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 5:23 PM

off topic...

does anyone remember nestor carbonell on the brief lived 2001 series "the tick"? based on the comic, it starred patrick warburton as 'the tick' and nestor as 'batmanuel' he was hilarious!! only 9 eps but very funny.
sorry, but every time i see him i think of his latin accent and the stupid batsuit he wore. guess that will only ring true with those who saw the show.
check it out, i am sure it is out there in cyberspace.

#202. Posted by: flegma at March 5, 2009 5:28 PM

you know ealgumby, I wasn't even thinking how Locke actually turned the wheel before Ben. That's interesting.

#203. Posted by: Steve at March 5, 2009 5:28 PM

Re: Dharma women leaving the island to have a baby.

Speaking as someone who has had a couple of ankle-biters, I can say that babies are not predictable. They come when they want to come, due date be Darned. It really surprised me that the Dharma folks seemed to cut it so close between when they send the woman to the main-land and their due dates.
______________________________________

I keep wondering, why did everybody stay on the island for those three years. What do you think happened? Since they were given the opportunity to leave, I would have expected at least one or two to take it. I could see why Sawyer and Juliet stayed, they were content. But why did Jin, Miles, & Daniel stay?
_______________________________________

I'm still firmly in the camp of Locke being alive, Christian being a ghost. The reason I think Christian is a ghost is the fact that he shows up suddenly, in places that a live person could not easily reach. He showed up on the freighter, to speak to Michael. He showed up in the sealed off cave to speak to Locke.

Now I suppose we could say that Locke is also a ghost, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of this. I may eat my words... but for now I'm not convinced.
___________________________________

Small gripe: What is up with the bad wigs on Lost. I had trouble concentrating on what Horace was saying. And speaking of hair, what was up with Kate's in the last scene?? Who does she think she is, Lara Croft? Not exactly the look I would have gone for when reuniting with Sawyer (dirty or clean...)!
______________________________________

BTW, I squealed like a girl when we saw the statue last night! Am I the only one?

I was thinking the statue could have been toppled by the same event that filled in the well. I assumed it was "the Incident" but now I'm not so sure. The reason I say this is it seemed that babies could still be born on island. This would seem to indicate that the incident had not yet happened. I wish after they had found the filled in well that they would have looked up at the statue...


#204. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 5:53 PM

@200/flegma
"anyone have any ideas on why the fdw is frozen??"
In Dante's Inferno and other lit on the subject, Satan is cast into the depths of Hell and frozen in a Lake of Ice. It also shows that the island does not follow the same geothermal/physics of our planet.

@201/ealgumby
"the island could be a nexus between alternate universes/realities"
I had a theory long ago that the island was the nexus between heaven and hell. Juliet was recruited because children could not be born in hell, and Ben needed to create an army of Hellspawn to attack the gates of heaven with Satan's return.

#205. Posted by: welh at March 5, 2009 5:56 PM

→ 204. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 5:53 PM

re; bad wigs

haha totally agree. it was really distracting. but couldnt help but notice, his curly locks look strangely similar to what we could see in the screen cap of (what is supposedly) jacob, in the cabin. Can't remember the ep, when Locke and Ben go to the cabin and we can hear a voice tell Locke: "Help Me". I know theres a screen cap of this out there. Anyone else notice this?

#206. Posted by: B Mar at March 5, 2009 6:10 PM

@79 Abe Froman -- the Sausage King of Chicago?

#207. Posted by: wendy at March 5, 2009 6:10 PM

Are we sure the Ajirans are in the Hydra station? If they are and it is the same time frame as Jack and the others, why haven't the Dharma people realized they were there? What ever station it was seemed abandoned. Did Dharma abandon it as part of the truce with the others? Or is it possible they are on the other island which has been completely neglected for a long time in the story line?

#208. Posted by: opserc at March 5, 2009 6:14 PM

Why do you think Sawyer didn't tell Juliet that the gang was back on the island after Jin called?

#209. Posted by: LostinVT at March 5, 2009 6:36 PM

@ 208. Posted by: opserc

re: the vacant Hydra Station.

The general concensus seems to be that they Ajirans split, and they didn't all come back to the island in the same Time. It seems that Jack, Kate and Hurley went to 1974 (probably Sayid too, based on the preview for next week) and Locke, Sun and Ben went to 2007ish.

#210. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 5, 2009 6:42 PM

@198/Sue: "@128. Posted by: ealgumby concerning Miles being the baby: I think that would give Horace a new reason to go out and try to blow up trees."

It was not confirmed last night that Horace was the father of Amy's baby, so Miles is still in play. However, as I said just a while ago, I'm betting it's gonna be Des ... father still unknown, or at least not confirmed. Desmond's childhood is mysterious, and nothing is known of his father; combined with the island "letting" him find it on his boat, plus his appropriate age, not to mention his island-friendly abilities, equals Des as Amy's son! JMHO.

#211. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 7:08 PM

@210/Lost in ca: "@ 208. Posted by: opserc

re: the vacant Hydra Station.

The general concensus seems to be that they Ajirans split, and they didn't all come back to the island in the same Time. It seems that Jack, Kate and Hurley went to 1974 (probably Sayid too, based on the preview for next week) and Locke, Sun and Ben went to 2007ish."

Also confirmed in last night's enhanced epi that 316 landed on the Hydra island ...

#212. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 7:11 PM

Did anyone else notice that the music playing in the background when the statue was shows was from Mysterious Island (1961 edition)?

#213. Posted by: Tim at March 5, 2009 7:12 PM

1) Miles is Marvin Candle's kid (remember the baby in the crib??)

Can't quite put my finger on who this baby is...but I feel like I'll come up with it soon :)

2) I think Locke had to die just so he would be able to return to the island (because as we all know the "rule" is your not supposed to be able to come back). I think the theory that Ben took granddaddy's shoes in hopes the island would pull him back is spot on. Whitmore hasn't been able to come up with anything like this to get himself back on the island and he's obviously known how to get back for a while- so he's using John. Notice how as soon as John takes his "leader" role of the others the freighter rolls on in??

3- Kate is SOOO knocked up, and I think she'll be able to deliver this kid (unless she wants out of her contract). So, forget who's the other baby...who's Jack and Kate's kid??????

#214. Posted by: Towley at March 5, 2009 7:17 PM

@213/Tim: "Did anyone else notice that the music playing in the background when the statue was shows was from Mysterious Island (1961 edition)?"

I surely did not ... kudos on IDing the ref!

Personally, I was sorely hoping to see a background TV in '74 Dharmaville airing an epi of Monty Python's Flying Circus ... a Mr. Gumby skit, of course ... rats!

#215. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 7:21 PM

The Island has a huge backstory. TPTB have to keep their "stars" involved by sending them "back" to help tell this story. The sub goes to Tahiti? I hope Jack goes and brings Bai Ling back.

#216. Posted by: lostsox at March 5, 2009 7:39 PM

815+316=1131

the sum of the digits 1+1+3+1=6 (as in Oceanic 6?)

in groups of:
1=Sun- circa 2007ish on the island?
1=Sayid- on island in 1977 but why is he separate from the rest of his the 77ers?
3=Jack, Kate, Hurley - together in 1977
1=Aaron what did Kate do with poor Aaron?


strange no?

#217. Posted by: add it up at March 5, 2009 7:48 PM

This is my first post online - on any blog or discussion board...But I need an answer to this -

When Locke gets off the Island - the Oceanic Six have already spent 3 years off the Island - whereas when Locke left it had only been a couple of weeks since the Six's departure.

But the Sawyer/Juliet/Miles crew spent 3 years AFTER Locke left them...so how does that tie in? The six are close to returning at that point in the real world whereas the Island losties haven't even started their 3 year period!


Jamal Aziz

#218. Posted by: Jamal Aziz at March 5, 2009 8:31 PM

@202. Posted by: flegma
re: "the Tick"

All I have to say is:

SPOON!

Equally good was Arthur's battle cry:

"Not in the face! Not in the face!"

#219. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 9:12 PM

@218 jamil aziz

welcome to the internets! you couldn't have found a better blog to finally join in on.

the 6 return in 1977.
the island 6 have been in their 3yrs from 1974 when locke turned the fdw stoping their time skippage for them. they were only skipping around for about 5 days or so. hope that kinda helped.

#220. Posted by: f at March 5, 2009 9:15 PM

@202. Posted by: flegma

Curse you flegma!

Now I have that theme song in my head!

But-deee-dat-dat-dat-dee-da!
But-deeeeeee-dat-dat-dat-dee-da!

#221. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 9:19 PM

Miles = Mr. "I Speak To Dead People." Hee hee!

@ 218/Jamal Aziz
According to the enhanced version of last week's epi, Locke flashed forward 3 years when he landed in Tunisia. Which is also interesting because Ben only flashed 9 or 10 months forward. And I don't know why he hurled. I would have been starving after 3 years.

Also from the enhanced bubbles -- which may or may not be accurate anyway -- there was no camera when Ben arrived in Tunisia. Thus answers that question. I guess. Whatever. Seems a bit too convenient for me.

@141/Cecil Rose re Love pentagram.
Bring back Ana Lucia and since Sawyer already "hit that," it'd be a hexagon. But how often do you get to see the word rhombus used in a sentence? Thanks, Mac!

The whole question about who dug the well, who filled it in and why it's now filled with rocks and dirt is frustrating me. so I'm going with whatever ealgumby says.

Anyone catch the commercial for Nick Cage starring in "Lost: The Movie," I mean "Knowing," about a teacher who finds a pattern of numbers that predicts future disasters.

#222. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 5, 2009 9:25 PM

According to lostpedia's timeline

December 2007-January 2008
-Locke gets in a car accident and ends up in Jack's hospital. Jack angrily refuses to believe anything Locke says.

2008
January
-Having given up, Locke prepares to hang himself as his last resort. Ben arrives and stops him, telling him he still has much to do since Jack booked a flight to and from Sydney.

-Jack books a flight to Sydney hoping to return to the Island

Day after Locke's death
* Prior to landing in Los Angeles on his return flight, Jack is handed a newspaper which contains an article about Locke's death.

2nd day after Locke's death
-That night, on his drive home at 2 a.m., Jack pulls his vehicle over on a bridge and gets out with the intention of committing suicide by jumping off the bridge.

Jack attends the viewing for Jeremy Bentham at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home,

Two days after reading about Locke's death, Jack, surrounded by maps and alcohol at home, calls Kate to meet her that night at the airport....Jack yells that they have to go back to the island.

Jack breaks into the funeral home, and Benjamin Linus finds him there. Ben convinces Jack that the Oceanic Six need to go back to the island together, and bring Locke's body with them.

it is very interesting to read all the things that happened in order.

#223. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 9:29 PM

I'm sorry, I lost track of who suggested it, But Desmond as Amy's baby...now that is a thought! He's about the right age; we know nothing about his childhood or family.

Isn't Des the only person whose parents or childhood we haven't seen? Though now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing Sayid's parents or childhood either.

#224. Posted by: undaunted at March 5, 2009 9:34 PM

@ 41. Darmok/65. Wendy: I am glad someone got my obscure ST:TNG referrence. Of course I should have realized that Darmok (and Jilad at Tenagra) would get it! Sorry about the mess though!

@ 10. Skipper: "Wonder why the Hostile's dead bodies have to be buried well? what's that all about? Well, I think we all know what it's about.....whispers?!"

The bodies had to be buried well because killing them broke the truce. Amy thought that if the bodies were well buried the Hostiles might not find out the truce had been broken. This is why she insisted Paul be brought with them as well.

@ 14. Mike: Yes, the little girl with red hair was Charlotte.

Why do you say all of the Dharma stations were built by the time the Frosties arrive at Bennsylvania, 1974? They are already at where the Orchid will be when the flashing stops...yet there is no Orchid. So obviously it has not been built yet, which puts the opening scene of the season at a later date.

Speaking of which, where is little Benjamin, Roger Workman (er, Linus), and Dr. Pierre Chang during tonight's episode? How old is Ben supposed to be when we meet him in Season 2?

Also, Flashes Before Your Eyes showed Desmond that things can change, little things anyhow, but the results are always the same.

And I disagree about the frequency of jaw dropping. I think TPTB are telegraphing their moves way in advance, so most of the "reveals" turn out to be what many of us expected them to be all along. The one exception this season would be Ben murdering Locke, that was a shocker (although totally within Ben's nature!)

@ 16. Plain Simple: How was America's next Top Model? ;)

@ 20. mtncbn: Sawyer didn;t really say all that much about RA's meeting with Locke. He knew Locke's name, and he knew Locke limped and was bald because he saw that for himself. He knew Locke was going on about the Others being "his people". And he knew Locke "disappeared" because they all flashed together. It's not like Sawyer said anything about the compass.

@ 21. mtncbn: That is interesting that there was no Christian Shepherd this viewing, and frankly I am surprised no one mentioned it before you!

@ 39. berkyo: Charlotte's body didn't disappear per se, it just failed to foom with the living.

@ 43. rinz: Occam's razor: Daniels' depression is more easily explained by the fact that the woman he loves just died in his arms.

@ 52. boodle: Sawyer didn't need the two weeks to earn a reprieve and gain Horace's trust. The fact that he could get Richard Alpert to back down from a fight was all it took! Wouldn't you want that guy in charge of security?

@ 54. PiecesofArzt: Sorry, I don't see Sawyer turning gay in his old age. Tom Friendly tells Kate she's "not his type". We saw who his type was in Meet Kevin Johnson.

@ 56. Mike: The Sonic Pylons also don't work on anyone with earplugs. I think the fact that they can be shot and killed goes a long way in the argument that the Others ARE alive.

@ 58. Michaelmvp: It's long been hinted at that the Others can come and go from the Island without using conventional transportation. The Frozen Donkey Wheel is one example of this, there could still be others...that don't move the Island, cause time skipping or "banishment".

@ 62. abhishek: Except we already saw Locke born off of the island...and in the 1950s, not the 1970s...Previous seasons are available on iTunes and DVD!

@ 69. Christina: The flight we see Jack on in Through the Looking Glass was the last one he took on Oceanic, nto the first. It was after this one he tried to kill himself by jumping off the bridge, goes to the nursing home, tells Kate he has been flying every weekend and hoping to crash. He did not start because of Locke's death, unless Locke was in that funeral home for months!

@ 90. JoePike: joe, sawyer was flat out lying to Horace when he said he was over Kate. Did you see the look on his face the moment he saw her? or miss the fact that he lied to Juliet about where he was going? He told Horace what he needed to hear. Paul is dead, Amy is not going to go back to him, so it is better for Horace to think she is over him and not be depressed. Safer that way for the trees, too!


#225. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 5, 2009 9:37 PM

@223. Posted by: berkyo

Once the show completely wraps up, we need someone to splice and edit everything (all flashbacks, time travels, etc) into chronological order. How whacked would that be?

#226. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 9:37 PM

And Lostp also has a very informative page on the Egyptian hieroglyphs in Lost.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hieroglyphs

#227. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 9:42 PM

Okay, couldn't help myself ... here is a snap of the FDW cave from when Locke turned the wheel, superimposed with a closeup model of where a "complete" wheel should be:

tinyurl.com/c7tug4

Hopefully you see the "bottom" spoke is missing in Locke's scene ... the FDW is definitely broken then! This MUST be significant to further plot developments ... it is simply TOO glaring to ignore ...

I lean toward one of the above I mentioned in #201 ... specifically, I think the first option fits best ... RA/Widmore and others crew dug the well to "fix" the broken donkey wheel ...

Now I am done with this, I swear ...

#228. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 9:44 PM

@124/191/211 ealgumby contending that Desmond could be the baby:
I'll buy that. And the baby being Desmond would maybe somehow provide the constant that poor, getting-crazier-by-the-minute Daniel so greatly needs.

@193ealgumby -- Is Jacob FOOMING?
If that's the case, it might explain why the cabin is so hard to find, because it's FOOMING with Jacob.

One more enhanced pop-up tidbit says that Abaddon is the "guardian of the abyss," in a biblical reference. But if you wiki Abaddon, there seem to be a million ways to interpret his name. Guess we'll find out when he becomes undead.

Speaking of predictions, here's an odd one: We're going to see Cindy again this season. Not trying to make a joke. Way back when Locke first joined Ben and his gang, I'm pretty sure Cindy said, "We’ve been waiting for you." So after being kidnapped and hanging with the Others for only a couple of months, all of a suddent it's "we"?! I think not. I think she's a former Dharma/Others drone and was actually returning to the island on flight 815.
(No scarfs were harmed in the making of this post.)

#229. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 5, 2009 9:46 PM

@ 106. PiecesofArzt: Doctor Who is the best show ever. Even better than Lost. If that makes me a nerd, so be it!

@ 110. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: Horace was present at Ben Linus's birth. So yes, he knew him before he brought him to the Island.

@ 182. theoldred: Mirab, his sails unfurled.

@ 185. Crispy Seaplanes: DHARMAk! I love it!

#230. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 5, 2009 10:06 PM

I don't think Jacob is uncontrollably skipping in time, I think he is stuck between times.

#231. Posted by: undaunted at March 5, 2009 10:06 PM

And one more!

these are he time shifts according to Lostp.
* 1 First shift: Between 2001-2002
* 2 Second shift: 2005 or later
* 3 Third shift: Between 2001-2002
* 4 Fourth shift: 1954
* 5 Fifth shift: Monday, 1 November 2004
* 6 Sixth shift: After January 1, 2008
* 7 Seventh shift: Friday, 18 November 1988
* 8 Eighth shift: Between 3-17 January 1989
* 9 Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh shifts: Unknown
* 10 Twelfth shift: After the Orchid greenhouse is destroyed
* 11 Thirteenth shift: Between the times the Well and the Orchid are built
* 12 Fourteenth shift: Between the times the Four-toed statue and the Well are built
* 13 Final shift: 1974
* 14 Shifts

#232. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 10:06 PM

I don't trust Amy.

At the very first part of the picnic scene, the other with the automatic picks up a revolver from the ground, and puts it in his belt at the back. Maybe Amy did shoot Paul. Something wasn't right when she said he was her husband(not friend). Her actions, and evil smirk(sneer? shades of AL) at the fence. Her surreptitious taking of the Anuk(round headed cross thing) from Paul.

@288 ealgumby - when the broken wheel becomes significant, you'll be right back into it.

as I on statue and well age, won't give up. The statue ruins at the beach looked like they had been deteriorating there for a long time.

The filled in well, now with the rope through the tie off point of the block, the perpetual life rope, etc. I repeat, I give up.

#233. Posted by: mtncbn at March 5, 2009 10:14 PM

Wow, I was gone for less than a day, refreshed the page and BAM! -- There's all of a sudden 100 more posts. (Almost exactly 100... a bit more).

Will I ever catch up? Probably not =[

#234. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 5, 2009 10:22 PM

→ 201. Posted by: ealgumby
Perhaps the “war” Widmore spoke of was between these two realities, competing for ultimate existence;

This sounds like Stargate. Would they copy a theme so closely to even use the Egyptians again? It sounds good, but too close to a recent plot I think.

What do you think the wheel is turning?Or did you post about this before? I mean is it a gear? turning something up an down?And if the Widmore group fixed it, who built it?

#235. Posted by: berkyo at March 5, 2009 10:32 PM

Forget about burying the bodies, what's the deal with Alpert wanting a dead body? Is that what they feed Jacob? I'm starting to think Alpert is evil. Eeeeevil! He comes across as all calm and eyelineree, but really he's a time-jumping manipulating somnabitch. And maybe the Alpert wearing the same outfit thing is because he's constantly FOOMING through time and doesn't have time to change clothes. Kinda like when I go ice skating and don't know how to stop. Not like LeFleur, who was a skating king. Oh Oh Oh, I got it. The name of the bomb was LeFleur!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Was anyone else waiting for Richard with the torch to say, "This is OUR island. And the only reason you're living on it is 'cause we LET you live on it."

OK, I'm into the wine a bit if that's not readily apparent.

I'm getting more and more of a sense that the Dharma folks aren't good guys either. Fake peacenik cover story to hide their true intentions of researching and harnessing the island's powers, plus they have a militaristic tendency. I read somewhere that the Dharma orientation videos could be cleverly conceived fabrications.

I liked the old earphone trick with the sonic fence. Interesting that it didn't stop Alpert but it did stop Smokey (Thus Alpert is not Smokey...and curious if anyone has any new thoughts on why a sonic fence would stop Smokey).

@ 83 shikotee suggests that perhaps Alpert has the code (meaning, he has someone on the inside)

You mean, like a mole? I daresay I don't think Alpert has a mole. Rather, I suggest it's all about the eyeliner. You see, folks, I propose that Alpert is really Barbara Eden in disguise. With a coy I Dream of Jeannie style batting of his eyelashes, he time flashes to a time before the sonic fence was built, walks through, then blinks himself back to the present. You NEED good eyeliner with all that blnking!

#236. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 5, 2009 10:36 PM

@225 - FenwayBen - my thought that the Dharma stations were built earlier was only an instinct. I haven't been obsessing over Lost for as long as most people here (I only started watching online at ABC's website a little over a year ago), so I'm not as up on all of the nuances as some people are. I just didn't expect to see the Dharma people making all of the stations still. I figured they would make them before sending people there to live.

Even if Faraday is there, I think there's more to his story (duh - there's way more to everyone's story, hahaha).

I love this whole Egyptian thing and the possibility of Rubert being RA. I don't know if they'll end up making that the case, or even if it is that they'll come right out and say so. I believe that Lost, as someone mentioned earlier, a character study, and most of all the religious and mythological stuff will be left in a mostly unexplained state.

They leave all the figuring out to people like everyone here. I just found this site about a month ago and find it very helpful for keeping everything straight and informing about small things I miss. Thanks to everyone here for all the insights!

#237. Posted by: Mike at March 5, 2009 10:52 PM

Now that the Lost storyline has looped back on itself, here's dates to ponder:

mid 60's: Ben is born near Portland, and Horace and Olivia Goodspeed just happen to be near.

hmmm...factor: this is before the official 1970 founding of the Dharma Initiative, so was it destiny for Horace to establish the relationship with Roger Linus that would lead to Ben killing Horace and the rest of the Dharma Initiative??

Also, Horace and Olivia could be bro-sis rather than hubby-wifey as nothing is said about their relationship.

1972-73: Somewhere in this time frame, Locke is approached by Mittelos Bioscience while in high school to attend their science camp.

Hmmm...factor: RA & the Others had not yet taken control of the Dharma facilities or the submarine, so either the Others also had off-shore facilities to compete with Dharma, or the Mittelos staging facility "just outside of Portland" was actually a Dharma facility- and Dharma was also trying to recruit Locke??

1974-77: Sawyer and compadres are stuck in Dharmaville.

hmmm...factor: Faraday calls the girl with red hair "Charlotte", but this is in 1974, and is five years before Charlotte is even born.

Likely, Faraday will continue to call every little red headed girl he sees Charlotte for the forseeable future until someday he will actually be right.

1977: Juliet delivers a healthy baby boy. The Desmond theory doesn't work because he entered the monastary to avoid marrying Ruth in 1995 after six years of courtship- his birth date has to be closer to 1970.

hmmm...factor: There is a well-known male character who actually was born in 1977 who has already shown an very interesting relationship to the island- may I present Mr. Hugo Reyes??

1976/77: Ben and Roger Linus arrive on island.

hmmm...factor: The reunion factor of Boy Ben and Jack, et al is too juicy to have already happened off-screen. I predict that very soon we will see a reshoot of the Linus family arrival on the island, but this time co-starring some of our favorite Oceanic characters.

1978-79: Boy Ben wanders into the jungle and encounters a Robin Hood looking RA.

Hmmm...factor: nose-bleeding severe. The motivation here and back story is anybody's guess, especially now that RA knows there are "time travelers" hiding among the Dharmaites. Also, if Rose & Bernard aren't dead, they were likely absorbed by the Others- so now RA knows the entire story of what lies ahead...

1979-1980: Charlotte supposedly born in 1979, the Dharma orientation videos with Dr. Chang shot in 1980.

Hmmm...factor: Jughead H-Bomb level. We've already seen Faraday in the Orchid c. 1980, and he warns young Charlotte not to return b/w 1982-1984.

Can this possibly mean that the (now)nine stuck in time characters will have to remain there for ANOTHER 3-5 years? Do they have to wait until Faraday can infiltrate the Orchid and turn the FDW one more time? Can this be the incident described on Radzinsky's blast door map?

The other mind-blowing angle- a day is a day is a day. The Losties spent 100 days on the island, while 100 days passed off-island.

The Oceanic 6 spent three years off-island, while our groovin' 70's quintet spent 3 years in Dharmaland.

If the stuck nine will remain back in time for several more years, that means that Sun, Locke, Ben, Lapidus, etc. will also be living out those years, but in the present. Two completely mismatched in time storylines- not to be united until season 6?

#238. Posted by: Mizzed at March 6, 2009 12:03 AM

GRAA Mac. If I may use your best line...

Sawyer tries to help
High caliber Namaste
You got my back Jules!

@137 Stocky
"Desmond's "interference" did nothing to change the events that had already taken place."

I'm having a hard time with this one. Don't Desmond's actions affect the future in some way? If Desmond had decided not to help Charlie and Charlie had died earlier, who would have gone to the Looking Glass station to turn off the signal jammer? Without Charlie's help events would have played out differently. Someone else would have gone and their reality would have been altered.

To that end I have a feeling that the rules Faraday spelled out regarding not being able to alter events may be breakable. Perhaps that's why Widmore was so eager to get Locke back to the island - to change history. He says there is a war coming but who would be the 2 sides? In 2008 there are The Others and who else? Or is Widmore referring to a war in 1977 time? Do we think Widmore would be able to find the island again and send an army to fight Richard and the Others? It was hard enough to get there with the small team he sent in early 2005. Maybe Widmore feels he can prevent the purge. Then again I may just be hanging around Smokey's lair and he's speaking for me.

Several posters have mentioned Juliet perhaps being brought to the island to deliver Amy's baby. Don't know about that one. There are so many variables along that path that I can't say I'm convinced that was the case.

#239. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at March 6, 2009 12:31 AM

@Jamal Azziz/218: That was a great timeline question! Welcome to Mac’s Place :) And thanks to Scooby/222 for the info from the enhanced episode, which I missed this week.

@ or speaking of Scooby-Dude: In the spirit of LaFleur -- Vous êtes très drôle ce soir! In other words, you veddy funny fellow! I’m sure it has nothing to do with the wine. SDID.

Speaking of which, where’s MIF? Some guy comes along, and she abandons her LB friends. Wonder if he wears a scarf?

Re: Desmond being Amy’s baby

Interesting, but I don’t think so. Penny met Des at the monastery in Scotland in 1994. If he was born in 1977, that would have made him 17 in 1994. And he dated Ruth for at least 6 years prior (not counting how long he was in the monastery, which is unknown). While it’s possible he could have started dating Ruth at around age 10-11, it’s unlikely. He seemed to me to be about mid-30s on the island in 2004, not 27.

Also interesting that Hurley was born in ’77, but I just can’t imagine him with parents other than Carmen and Cheech. Although he does have super-curly hair like Amy.

Now that you all have pointed me in that direction, I’m very suspicious of Amy. Mostly because she hooked up with Horace, when she could’ve made a play for Sawyer ;) A woman of questionable taste, to say the least.

Great to see so many familiar posters around again this season. Mac sure draws a crowd :)

#240. Posted by: Clementine at March 6, 2009 12:55 AM

Does anybody realize that "land of the lost" aired from 1974 to 1977?

#241. Posted by: bushhound2 at March 6, 2009 12:57 AM

@241: I loved Land of the Lost (and H.R. Pufnstuf)!! The statue may be revealed to be a Sleestak.

But, praytell good sir, what happened to bushhound the 1st?

#242. Posted by: Clementine at March 6, 2009 1:10 AM

@153 Ben's possible boyhood crush on Juliet.

So if Ben developed this crush, got the painting done, and brought her to the island, could this change our understanding of Harper's comment to Juliet that she looks, "just like her"? Until now I think we've all been speculating that this was a reference to Annie, but could it be that Juliet simply looks like herself?

Also, I'm on board with people noticing the overlap of Michael's list at the end of season 2 with the people showing up in 1977. Kind of makes you worry about the fate of Jin (again). But also makes us reevaluate why these people were singled out: why Hurley was brought there only to be sent back with a message; why Sawyer and Kate were put in cages to be observed and do some manual labor; I guess Jack's reason for being there was more obvious, but maybe there was more...

#243. Posted by: Anubis Show Was Awesome at March 6, 2009 1:11 AM

@238: this is getting confusing as far as the "9" lost in time... i count 8 or 10 stuck in 1977(depending on rose/bernard). They are: faraday, miles, sawyer, juliet, jin, jack, hurley, kate, + rose and bernard maybe. Am I missing somebody?

#244. Posted by: Bushhound2 at March 6, 2009 1:17 AM

Re: Ben's lists

So, if Ben knew the time-skippers in 1977, but didn't know the full backstory of how they came to be there (believed Sawyer's Black Rock story along with the other Dharmites), and then something happened (maybe "The Incident") and the time-skippers were gone before the purge...

Could Ben be making lists of people he KNOWS from 1977, and living out the rest of his time on the island until 2004, stuck there because he has to wait for the time-skippers to reappear, so he can orchestrate their return to 1977... why? Because he thinks they CAN change history? Or because he doesn't want history changed?

Hmmm...

#245. Posted by: Clementine at March 6, 2009 1:22 AM

I guess Ben would know they were time-skippers if Alpert told him, but he probably wouldn't know about Flight 815. Unless Sawyer had further discussions with RA.

Now I'm dying to know what Ben wants to change (or keep the same). Reverse the purge. Nah. Save Annie. Maybe, but I doubt Alpert would be going to all this trouble to improve Ben's love-life. Reverse the "Incident" that led to the countdown timer in the Swan - JWT(Swan)B? Maybe. Have to think more about this. But must go to bed. Too tired... to think about Lost... anymore...

#246. Posted by: Clementine at March 6, 2009 1:34 AM

@ Scooby-dude..

Inquiring minds wanna know.. how was the Dharma Merlot? You have reminded me of one of my fave parts of the show, seeing that bottle of wine on the table. Those Dharma folks don't miss a beat do they? I imagine they even have Dharma contraceptives.. but maybe I'm taking this too far >:)

#247. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 1:44 AM

Well, as long as others are having their stab at possible Egyptian mythological connections, how about this one: Smokey = Apep

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep

#248. Posted by: Anubis Show Was Awesome at March 6, 2009 1:47 AM

Read on another blog that someone suggested the statue was Tawaret (protector of pregnancy - women would hold an ankh or symbol of her to protect themselves during pregancy), who happens to be the consort of Apep (snakelike monster). Of course it's all speculation at this point, but I love it.

#249. Posted by: Egyptian Eyeliner at March 6, 2009 2:24 AM

@69 That's not quite right, Jack was already flying trans-Pacific when he found Locke's obituary in the paper, and then wanted to jump off the bridge. I don't know if that was the flight to Sydney though, because Jack told Kate he was going across the ocean to other cities, I think he mentioned Tokyo and Hong Kong or Singapore in addition to Sydney if memory serves.

Regarding the Sawyer/Juliet relationship, I hope, really hope, that Damon has finally put an end to all of Carlton's relationship triangle or rectangle nonsense that should have been cleared up Oh, about two seasons ago. I mean seriously as soon as they introduced Juliet, I thought perfect, Jack the doctor/Kate the fugitive, Sawyer the con-man/Juliet the doctor, opposites attract, but NOOOO, Carlton had to indulge his bizarre fetishism for three way relationships for another two plus seasons to the detriment of character development on the show. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

#250. Posted by: unladenswallow at March 6, 2009 2:25 AM

Long time reader, first time poster, all that good stuff. I usually don't have much to add since you guys all do such a great job of pointing things out!

If you look at a screencap of the statue - http://tinyurl.com/arzbo8 - Doesn't it look like it's holding an ankh in each hand? Hard to see with the trees in the way..

#251. Posted by: PrimeTime at March 6, 2009 2:50 AM

Thanks for everyone's sympathies. I saw the episode online. Loved it! Things are settling down a bit and so are the Losties and Frosties in Dharma time. Good to see some interaction between some of our leads again (and in more ways than one).

GRAA Mac!

I have only time for a few quick initial comments:


***

We're stuck in the seventies for at least two more weeks? Aaaahhhh....

Actually, I really like our Losties hopping around Dharma. I don't like having to wait an extra week for more Dharmadventures. What's the reason for the wait?

***
@5, FenWayBen: "First thing I noticed tonight was the absence of Christian Shepherd in the recap of past Island events. Was he really not there with Locke at the Frozen Donkey Wheel (Shaka, when the walls fell)"

First thing I thought when I saw that was "oh no, they're not going to complicate things even more, are they?!" :) For the moment I'll just assume that they cut the bits with Christian out.

"Shaka, when the walls fell"

Two weeks ago it was The Prisoner, last week the Hitchhiker's Guide; this will this week be our series of choice? Okay then, engage!

****

@10, Skipper: "Wonder why the Hostile's dead bodies have to be buried well? what's that all about? Well, I think we all know what it's about.....whispers?!"

Superficially it seems that it was just to hide the bodies, to prevent the Others from finding out their truce was broken (although it did seem a lot to me like the Others were actually breaking it, not Dharma). But there might be more to it. Prevent them from resurrecting???

***

@53, The Other Other: "One thing that's not been mentioned in weeks is Rose and Bernard. I think this almost gaurentee's that Rose and Bernard are the Adam and Eve found in the caves."

The longer they are absent, the more I'm fearing that as well. The hope I'm clinging to? The fact that we haven't seen Vincent in some time either, and Darlton promised he would survive the series. So if Rose and Bernard just stay close to that dog, all will be just fine... unless he really is Smokey...

#252. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 6, 2009 3:02 AM

Going with the christian symbology of the past weeks connected to Locke: When Sawyer was talking to Richard he said (paraphrased) "That man was John Locke and I am waiting for his return." That gave me a very "apostle waiting for Jesus after his resurrection" vibe. Isn't there an ex-criminal who was converted by Jesus in the biblical stories and became one of his followers? Or am I making that up? Well, at least we have a fisher man amongst our Losties.

#253. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 6, 2009 3:35 AM

Did anyone notice the mechanic's name when Sawyer asked him, "Where is she?" His name was Tom. Could this be a young Mr. Friendly? Perhaps he defected to the hostiles before the purge?

#254. Posted by: Staci at March 6, 2009 8:38 AM

Funny how we ladies all like badboy Sawyer. Mind you, 'angry & tortured' would be no picnic to live with. Are we all thinking of ....briefer encounters with the Badboy?

#255. Posted by: shannon at March 6, 2009 8:49 AM

the boy = Caesar

#256. Posted by: mui at March 6, 2009 9:21 AM

@202 flegma
That's it--thank you! I've been trying to figure out where I saw him before!

#257. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 9:59 AM

Unfinished thoughts:

Ok, I finally had the time to rewatch the show and am sure Juliet knew Amy when she saw her. Somethings up with Juliet shooting first. Why the hurry? Even Sawyer's look at her was questioning. I think our quiet, timid Juliet turned evil under Ben's care. Maybe she and Goodwin were up to something. Wasn't Goodwin married while she was having an affair with him? What was the wife's name? Who would Amy be today - 30 years later? Maybe the baby doesn't matter and it's the fact that Juliet was able to finally deliver a baby that counts. Anyone give any thought to Ben's father remarrying? Maybe had Charlotte? I keep watching the players with the red hair.

To clean up a few thoughts of mine, I've been bothered by Richard's hippy like appearance when he met Ben. My first thought was how can a ghost grow hair. Then, someone mentioned the costumes and I realized that he was in character. So, Richard does not change at all. He's stuck at whatever age he died. Can't figure out though how a ghost can rule a group of people like our Cindy and the kids.

Christian Shepherd does change clothes. So he can't be a ghost. And Jack only saw his face. Maybe that was all a setup.

I need to watch Locke and see what happens to him. He appears to be very real.

I also find it hard to believe that Sawyer and group will live on the island until the incident (1985). That will make Aaron a teenager when they do get back.

And since we have the sonic fence in 1974, that means smokey was born before that time.

When Walt was kidnapped, it was the 'others' that were doing the experiments on him. I feel like the original hostiles took in the remaining Dharma people that happened to survive the purge. There was that comment about 'does he ever appear where he's not suppose to be? - something like that. So Christian could be alive and appearing elsewhere. Just like Walt to Locke in the pit.

This stuff gives me a pleasant tension headache!


#258. Posted by: pebspostal at March 6, 2009 10:00 AM

@227

AWESOME!
Everyone should visit this- it's helpful to see how the symbols have been so prevelant thru the past 4 seasons...yet I was always looking for "the numbers"!

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hieroglyphs

#259. Posted by: Sillygirl0630 at March 6, 2009 10:03 AM

A number of people seem to agree that there's an Egyptian connection. At first I thought the four-toed statue looked like Anubis, but when I did some searching I found similarities with the God Duamutef.

1) Duamutef was one of the Four Sons of Horus and a funery God.

2) Duamutef made a pact with Anubis that as long as he lived he could use the Bow of Fatality.

3) Duamutef was bound by chains before his death and killed by Neith. RA (the God) than helped Duamutef kill Neith. Later in Egyptian mythology Duamutef and Neith would fight with neither of them able to kill the other with any weapon.

#260. Posted by: DaveLOST at March 6, 2009 10:13 AM

Okay - I just want to throw a wrench in here - what about Daniel being Amy's baby instead of Desmond?
I know the popular belief is that Sojer Girl = Ellie = Eloise = Daniel's mom but....
The timeline seems to fit a little better for Daniel to be ~27 in 04.
Anyone?

#261. Posted by: LostinVT at March 6, 2009 10:28 AM

@plain simple 252

Two weeks ago it was The Prisoner, last week the Hitchhiker's Guide; this will this week be our series of choice? Okay then, engage!

This week we have so far ST:TNG, the Tick, and Land of the Lost
If you count Mike @237 calling Richard Alpert Rubert then might I add Survivor Pearl Islands to the list? Rupert--strongest man alive!

#262. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 10:32 AM

And when was Charlotte revealed to be born in 1979? Don't remember that...

#263. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 10:36 AM

→ 251. Posted by: PrimeTime
http://tinyurl.com/arzbo8 - Doesn't it look like it's holding an ankh in each hand? Hard to see with the trees in the way...

Thanks for the screenshot... and now that you mention it, nice eye on the observation regarding the ankh(s).

Boy, whoever eventually leaks that frontal shot will be living large.

#264. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 6, 2009 10:42 AM

@ 257. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes & 202. Posted by Flegma

re: nestor carbonell

He was also in Suddenly Susan. He was so different in that show, hard to believe it is the same person. But the 'eyeliner' gives him away.

BTW... we all tease him and his choices in guyliner (yes, I know it is really his eyes) but I have to say he is a very handsome man.

#265. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 10:45 AM

Let me get this straight. In three years old James Lafleur never thought of taking a shovel and digging up that well to see what may have happened to Locke? It seemed there was a cavern below when he fell and the well filled up so digging it out wouldn't be too bad.

Also is the baby Ben?

#266. Posted by: ALEX_ANGEL at March 6, 2009 10:46 AM

Thoughts on the smoke-monster:

It's a nanoparticle swarm. Wait - bear with me here -- (If you've read 'Prey' by Michael Crichton, you'll see where I'm going). We've heard Rousseau's ex (and someone in a previous-season epi, can't remember which one) describe it as a 'security system'. Nano-swarms can be programmed to do whatever - like assess whether or not to kill someone. (Remember it 'looking at' Locke, Eko (twice), the French fellow). In some cases, it attacked, in others, it didn't. But some things aren't programmed into the nano-swarm - like how to handle the sonic fence. So - who built & programmed the nano-swarm? Not Dharma, since the sonic fence is theirs, and the nano-swarm would know about it.

#267. Posted by: shannon at March 6, 2009 10:55 AM

@ 258. Posted by: pebspostal

"Christian Shepherd does change clothes. So he can't be a ghost."

Since when can't ghosts change clothes? Is that a rule? They are ghosts, so I would imagine they can do anything the like. I find it much harder to believe that a 'real' Christian was able to suddenly appear in the well, when the entrance had been sealed. He would have needed future knowledge about where John would be to get there in time to meet up, but the thing with John going down the well all happened very quickly. Also, how did Christian get out of the well??...

For now I'm sticking with Christian=ghost. John=alive. Time will tell.

#268. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 10:57 AM

@247 Losa in ca re Dharma merlot:
Mmmmm, yummmy. So THAT's where I must have gotten the idea for a nice big glass (or two) of red wine last night.

@263 Crispy Seaplanes
I think Ben said Charlotte was born in 1979. He also said she was born in England. Ben = Liar. Thus, I don't think Charlotte's date of birth has been firmly established.

Bas, @108, mentioned the Ethan/Juliet mechanic/doctor parallel. That reminded me that Sawyer and Juliet in bed in Otherton (before Ben upgraded it to New Otherton) paralleled previous scenes in which we saw each of them in bed with someone else in the barracks. That got me thinking, seems to me that both Sawyer and Juliet are in "redemption" mode. Juliet finally delivered a baby, redemption for her misdeeds (home-wrecker, murderer). Sawyer is now a leader, which is interesting, but he's also a kinder, gentler Sawyer. And interesting that he was somewhat more straight with Alpert than the Dharmaniacs were. Someone earlier mentioned that this could be the beginning of the end for our dear Red Neck Man. I wonder about that too. Remember earlier this season when Sawyer picked up a red shirt and asked "Whose shirt is this?" Unfortunately for Frogurt, he was the redshirt in that episode, but I wonder if that was a little easter egg foreshadowing Sawyer's own death as well. I hope not, but seems like sometimes, though not always, death comes after redemption (Charlie, Michael).

Another thing, someone (Gumbo?) theorized that in episode 1 this season, one of the cameramen filming Dr. Chang in the orientation video looked like Sawyer. I had thought the same thing at the time but ABC seems to have taken down the early-season episodes so I wasn't able to rewatch it. Does anyone else think that was Sawyer, or is that one of those Nadia in Tunisia/Sayid or Charlie-on-the-beach with the Ajirans things that was just in my imagination? Does make a lot more sense now for it to be Sawyer, though.

#269. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 6, 2009 11:03 AM

@238. Mizzed

Great help with that timeline.
I do agree with you that we don´t have much options for a boy born in 1977. You mentioned Hugo, and I would add also Charlie.
Anyways I don´t think any of those two would apply.

Way back @86 I launched a wacky idea, and after and yesterday I kept thinking that I could be right.
Wouldn´t it be great if the baby ends up being Aaron father? We have hardly met the paintor who was Claire´s boyfriend.

#270. Posted by: Tinchorama at March 6, 2009 11:06 AM

@260. Posted by: DaveLOST

Good points DaveLost. Duamutef! Are you insinuating that Ben and Whitmore are Duamutef and Neith; fighting for control of the island, while following the rules?


@251. Posted by: PrimeTime

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/6/68/FourToedFull.jpg


http://www.cesras.org/images/CAI-CG61029-Paynedjem2-D21a-TT320-inner-TOL5-Horus-son-Duamutef-white-ERL0107-web.jpg

How about an ankh in his left hand and a cane in his right?

@267. Posted by: shannon

Smokey is a nano particle swarm...
Best explanation I've read yet.

#271. Posted by: JLost at March 6, 2009 11:17 AM

With the identity of Amy's baby in question...

Seems like we've discounted the possibility that the baby is Desmond...timeline/age doesn't seem to line up.

I don't think it's Caesar...don't know why, but it doesn't feel right.

Ad I refuse to believe the baby is Hurley. Or Miles.

Daniel is a strong contender. Maybe not as good as Marlon Brando but a strong contender nonetheless.

So who's my guess?

I think the baby is none other than Richard Alpert.

Age would be about right. He recruited Juliet to make sure he gets delivered alive. And (my guess here) no more babies or mothers live thereafter. Not aging and his special brand of timelessness have no bearing when you have a time machine. He could've gone back a few thousand years and set himself up as Ra and any other persona.

That's my guess and I'm sticking with it until Darlton prove me wrong.

#272. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 6, 2009 11:22 AM

@52, boodle: "Amy's baby not due for 2 weeks and was going to take the sub to the "clinic" to have the baby. Sawyer and Co supposed to get on sub the next day, but given 2 week reprieve when sub returns...meaning.."

Perhaps its a joke, referring to our two week wait for the next episode?

#273. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 6, 2009 12:14 PM

@→ 196. Posted by: Jo at March 5, 2009 5:04 PM

"old lady wombs"

This makes sense. If living on the island stops the external "aging" process, I wonder if it stops the aging of wombs. In the last episode, Juliet successfully delivered the baby and maybe that means that someone who recently made their way to the island can still have children, but if you were on island for any length of time, your womb dries up and you have fertility issues.

Either that, or we haven't yet seen the latest twist. The four toed statue is not Anubis, God of the Underworld, but is really Amun, the God of Creation or Isis, the god of fertility.

#274. Posted by: Paulo at March 6, 2009 12:16 PM

@269 Scooby-dude
I did rewatch that scene. There is a guy with longish hair and a scruffy beard. Definitely not Sawyer though.

@267. Posted by: shannon
I think someone in years past brought up that theory and even invoked Prey in the explanation. I seem to remember someone saying the producers had debunked that theory in a podcast or something. Still sounds like the best explanation to me though...

Regarding whether Locke and Christian are ghosts...I think we have to think beyond whatever we've seen in other shows/movies etc...I don't believe they are ghosts but not human anymore either. Maybe the next stage in human evolution or something. A physical being able to interact with other physical beings but imbued with other gifts such as the ability to FOOM into small enclosed caverns without being noticed. These guys are something new and different but I assume they will end up being the same thing. Locke probably just hasn't discovered how to use his new super powers yet.

#275. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 12:21 PM

@216 lostsox proposed:

>The Island has a huge backstory. TPTB have to keep their "stars" involved by
sending them "back" to help tell this story. The sub goes to Tahiti? I hope Jack goes and brings Bai Ling back.

Bai Ling is in Thailand, a matter of 5000 or so miles difference.
_______
o_______

@218 Jamal Aziz asked:

>But the Sawyer/Juliet/Miles crew spent 3 years AFTER Locke left them...so how does that tie in? The six are close to returning at that point in the real world whereas the Island losties haven't even started their 3 year period!

First of all, welcome to the group. Stick around, it's a friendly place.

When Ben turned the wheel and landed in Tunisia, the indications were that he landed there some none months after when he turned the wheel, so evidently being near all that what-ever-it-is power when it's unleased can transport you though time, as well as space.

When Locke was recuperating in the hospital, Widmore informed him it was three years after the O-6 were 'rescued', so apparently Locke was thrown even further through time.

So the on-island group gets thrown back to 1974 after only a few days of subjective time, then lives three years until they meet (some) of the returning O-6, who lived three years off-island before returning being blasted fron 2008 to 1977.

Is there any necesary reason the for the three year periods to be of the same length? Not for any reason we understand so far. When time travel is involved, these kinds of rules get really fuzzy, but I haven't seen anything yet that would say the O-6 (or some of them) couldn't have lived off-island for, say, ten years and then gone though the identical scenario. Of course, as a practical matter, it then makes casting and makeup more difficult for the producers.
_______
o_______

@228 ealgumby continued to obsess as follows:

>Hopefully you see the "bottom" spoke is missing in Locke's scene ... the FDW is definitely broken then! This MUST be significant to further plot developments ... it is simply TOO glaring to ignore ...

>I lean toward one of the above I mentioned in #201 ... specifically, I think the first option fits best ... RA/Widmore and others crew dug the well to "fix" the broken donkey wheel ...

>Now I am done with this, I swear ...

The island won't LET you be done with it. (evil chuckle)

Seriously, I don't think the broken spoke is significant, because I don't think the FDW in and of itself is significant. The FDW is, most likely, the capstan from the Black Rock, just used as the handiest methood of turning [something]. A broken spoke just means grab another one (unless the broken part is jamming something somewhere else).

No, the really serious question is just WHAT is getting turned, and what does turning it do?
_______
o_______

@238 Mizzed mused

>hmmm...factor: Faraday calls the girl with red hair "Charlotte", but this is in 1974, and is five years before Charlotte is even born.

That's if you believe Ben's 'biography' and as we all know, Ben lies occasionally. (Only on days with a 'y' in them.)

Her mother lied to her about where she was born, could also have lied about when.
_______
o_______

@258 pebspostal proposed:

>And since we have the sonic fence in 1974, that means smokey was born before that time.

I was under the impression that the original purpose of the sonic fence was to keep out the Hostiles, although apparenently by the time of this episode they can pretty much walk through it at will.
_______
o_______

@262 Crispy Seaplanes proclaimed:

>If you count Mike @237 calling Richard Alpert Rubert then might I add Survivor Pearl Islands to the list? Rupert--strongest man alive!

Only tied. Last night, J.T., the cattle rancher from Alabama, equaled Rupert's record of holding 220 pounds on a pole across his neck. Review will be posted this evening.
_______
o_______

>@267 shannon thought:

>Thoughts on the smoke-monster:

>It's a nanoparticle swarm...

A Crichton fan also, this was my favorite theory, too, but alas Cuze and Lindelof specifically denied it in one of their podcasts. I thought it was the best hopr for a scientifically plauseable explanation, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they explain it.

#276. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 6, 2009 12:45 PM

@228 ealgumby and @276 Cecil Rose
I think the fact that the FDW is broken when Locke turned it although Locke turned it technically in time before Ben shows that the FDW is independent of time. While the flashes change the time periods of everything around, the FDW continues on through these time jumps just as the Losties do. So though the time period when Locke moved the wheel was before when ben moved it, Locke actually turned the wheel after Ben turned it. Or something.

#277. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 1:09 PM

Oh yeah and despite JT, Rupert will always be the strongest one there is!
That's still my favoeite season of Survivor followed closely by Australia which was the first season I watched.

#278. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 6, 2009 1:12 PM

@118. Posted by: shikotee at March 5, 2009 12:06 PM

"What a skank Juliet is!
She delivers him as a baby, then bangs him as an adult. WHACKED!"

Help me out here, just can't seem to remember - just when were Juliet and Horace doing the horizontal hula?

Len

#279. Posted by: Len at March 6, 2009 1:29 PM

@→ 158. Posted by: ealgumby at March 5, 2009 2:11 PM

"Tommyknockers"? ? ?

Len

#280. Posted by: Len at March 6, 2009 1:41 PM

→ 189.DC-Matt brought up Henry Gale. I googled Henry Gale's driver's license and found this on lostpedia - not necessarily the authority on LOST, but still some interesting info that I never knew, had forgotten, or dismissed as unimportant (as if anything on LOST is trivial!) For ex: Gale's connection to Widmore.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Henry_Gale

-180 Shikotee's point about 3 decades vs 30 years. Excellent!

-143 and -239 about Des saving Charlie. Des had to keep saving Charlie until Penny could get a fix on where Des was so she could save him and the 06. I don't see that as changing events, but rather ensuring that they happened as they should. Red pain alert.

#281. Posted by: lovelost at March 6, 2009 1:46 PM

(those in the Phoenix area will know exactly what I'm talking about) It's VICTORIA'S SECRET HANDSHAKE!!!! → 147. Posted by: Gumbo at March 5, 2009 1:10 PM

In Scottsdale, Direct TV just kept a "sorry for the inconvenience" message on the screen. We weren't even treated to Wheel of Fortune!!

BTW: Nice to see someone else from the Valley on Mac's blog.

#282. Posted by: lovelost at March 6, 2009 1:54 PM

Helloooo, Lost Braniacs!

I can feel my brain expanding as I read your comments, argh, massive pressure on skull, redpain, repain!

GRAA!

Several people have been speculating that the island is death/the island is purgatory/everyone is dead. Didn't TPTB say that wasn't the case? And people (AnaLucia, Libby, Tom) have died. Not likely that you can die twice!

I'm definitely in the missing Bernard, Rose, and Vincent club. And the prefer dirty Sawyer club--RAWR!!!

About Horace blowing up trees...someone else loves blowing up trees...Smokey!

I don't think it's likely that Horace=Smokey, but who knows? Or maybe Smokey saw Horace blow up a tree, thought it might be fun, and got hooked.

#283. Posted by: freckles at March 6, 2009 2:26 PM

re: ghost theory. I think I've seen both RA and Locke shake hands with some of the losties. "Dead" Claire and Christian, and Charlie, however, I don't think have touched anybody. As far as dying twice, hasn't Mikhail Bakunin died at least twice? (Security fence and grenade drowning Charlie)

#284. Posted by: bushhound2 at March 6, 2009 2:46 PM

@275 Crispy. Sawyer lookalike. Damn those powers that be. And maybe like Ben, TPTB are lying about Smokey being a nanoparticle swarm because they are sneaky sneaky liars.

@277 Crispy. Yeah yeah, Locke turned the FDW after Ben turned it even though it's before he turned it. I'm with ya, brutha. Drip, drip, drip goes the nose blood.

Dang, now I'm obsessed with this and have to post my record-spinning theory jazz. If the island is like a spinning record, I view the time shifts as replaying the record (some might say looping). The record's grooves are still in the same place and it's still spinning, so all you should be able to do is listen to it. When Faraday says something like the record is spinning again but it's not on the song we want to be on, it's akin to someone pushing the needle back a few songs to an earlier groove on the record. Moving the needle doesn't change the record per se, but it can result in the record having a scratch and perhaps skipping a few bars when it's played again. If it's true that you can't really change the past, then the record itself doesn't change, only the point at which you're listening to it changes. So on this looping record of life, when Daniel flashes back in time and meets Desmond at the hatch, for example, it is like playing the record a second time, only this time he puts a scratch in the record when he talks to Des. The scratch wasn't there when the record was played originally or when Desmond experienced the first playing of the record, but now that the scratch is there, it is part of the record and thus blips into Desmond's current consciousness. So back on topic, Ben turns the wheel, the record goes off its spinning mechanism and rotates crazily, hence the time shifts back and forth, then Locke gently sets it back in place and it begins spinning correctly again. But somehow the needle has skipped back a few songs. Maybe the spokes somehow act as needles?? Drip drip drip, collapse...

#285. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 6, 2009 2:53 PM

→ 284. Posted by: bushhound2

Ah, Mikhail! Thank you, I haven't thought about nasty ole Mikhail in a while! Isn't he Mr. Patchy? Don't know if he's dead, didn't he fake them out with the sonic fence death, probably using ear plugs like Amy?

And with the Charlie grenade/speargun i thought he just swim away, but we never find out what happened to him? He's a tough old somagun!

#286. Posted by: freckles at March 6, 2009 3:09 PM

When Patchy went through the sonic fence (in 2004), didn't he have the nose, mouth, etc. bleeding "death". This sonic fence (in 1974) only seems to "stun" by sound.

#287. Posted by: Rudy at March 6, 2009 3:31 PM

@102, lovelost: "When Juliet first spotted RA, she briefly closed her eyes. And she had that Juliet smirk. Was she thinking: "Not again" or "He finally arrived" Or what? She knows much more than she's letting on."

My impression was "oh no, not Alpert".

#288. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 6, 2009 3:57 PM

238. Posted by: Mizzed

A lot if very good Hmmmms there.

#289. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 3:59 PM

→ 239. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) Several posters have mentioned Juliet perhaps being brought to the island to deliver Amy's baby. Don't know about that one. There are so many variables along that path that I can't say I'm convinced that was the case.

I don't like this either. It's too confusing. If you can't change the past, then Juliette has always gone back in time and I don't think their time jumping is "normal" for the island. The Jumps are what's wrong. And they have to fix it before any of these jumps happen. So she would not be there to deliver the baby. just IMHO -It creates too many no beginning /no end loops. You know, Sometimes I don't understand what I am typing......LOL
Still don't like it.

#290. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 4:06 PM

@288/Plain Simple:
"@102, lovelost: 'When Juliet first spotted RA, she briefly closed her eyes. And she had that Juliet smirk. Was she thinking: 'Not again' or 'He finally arrived' Or what? She knows much more than she's letting on.'

My impression was 'oh no, not Alpert'."

Guess I just thought ... when doesn't she have that annoying grin on her face? Probably just my pet peeve, but I think I find her knowing smirk almost as annoying as some find Jack's noisily emoted breathing.

#291. Posted by: ealgumby at March 6, 2009 4:09 PM

I took her look to be along the lines of what she said to Locke "Richard is always here".

#292. Posted by: Rudy at March 6, 2009 4:15 PM

@279 Len asked:

>Help me out here, just can't seem to remember - just when were Juliet and Horace doing the horizontal hula?

The speculation is that little baby Goodspeed grew up and changed his name to Goodwin.

~~~~~~~~~~~
o
~~~~~~~~~~~

@286 freckles wondered:

>And with the Charlie grenade/speargun i thought he [Mikhail] just swim away, but we never find out what happened to him? He's a tough old somagun!

One of the Darlton podcasts confirnmed that Mikhail is now really, most sincerely dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~
o
~~~~~~~~~~~

@288 Plain Simple asked

>Was she [Juliet] thinking: "Not again"...

No, that was the bowl of petunias. [To revert o last week's theme.]

#293. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 6, 2009 4:28 PM

@289/berkyo: "238. Posted by: Mizzed

A lot if very good Hmmmms there."

I agree, excellent points made ...

Re Des and his dating Ruth for 6 years, I totally forgot about that ... too bad, as I thought Des made for a good mystery baby. Unless (tee hee) ... he gets sent back in time 6 or 7 years upon leaving the island as a child, thus making the timeline correct for him again! ;)

Not keen on any of the other choices though ... too much seems to be known about Hurley's childhood ... ditto Charlie (as well as wrong birth date, assuming no additonal time travel :) ) ... Caesar just too new a character for such a major plot turn (why would we care?) ... Daniel kinda makes some sense (could maybe explain why Hawking didn't seem to give a rat's ass when Des delivered his message ... but I think it's just because she's mean ... and creepy), but not sure his timeline works either; I mean, he was an Oxford professor in '96 when Des visited him ... at 19 years old? He also looks too old anyway, at least to me (as did Des really as well, but just thought he was a better choice). SOME people (inside joke ;) ) have given me grief for suggesting Miles, but after having Des summarily removed from consideration ... I just don't know!

#294. Posted by: ealgumby at March 6, 2009 4:29 PM

246. Posted by: Clementine Reverse the "Incident" that led to the countdown timer in the Swan - JWT(Swan)B?

I thought Ben did not know about the Swan. Where did I hear that? He knows everything so why didn't he have the swan monitored and then he would have known that Desmond was going to blow the hatch.

#295. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 4:42 PM

267. Posted by: shannon
It's a nanoparticle swarm.

Berkyo likes this!

#296. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 4:57 PM

@279. Posted by: Len
re: "horizontal hula"

This was a reference to Goodwin - aka the guy who Ben sent to infiltrate the tailsection, and whom Ben was jealous of because he hooked up with Juliet.

It would be pretty warped if the baby turned out to be Goodwin. Is there a Freud type doctor out there who deals with such time travel induced baggage?

In any case - I doubt this is even possible with the timelines we've been presented. Goodwin roughly looked like he was of similar age as Ben.

Not wanting to burst the bubble here on the baby speculation, but it is also possible that the baby will turn out to be someone that we have not yet been introduced to. But naaah! That's crazy talk!

#297. Posted by: shikotee at March 6, 2009 5:05 PM

in the egyptian theme, Richard Alpert's initials are RA.....aka the egypian god Ra

#298. Posted by: jen at March 6, 2009 5:06 PM

@228 ealgumby & 277 Crispy & 285 Scooby

re: whether Locke turned the wheel before or after Ben

I believe I commented on this two episodes ago, and I still feel the same way.

Based on conversations about the well/cave that the wheel is in, especially the fact that the cave ceiling seemed to be pristine/not filled in when Locke spins the FDW.. I believe that the wheel travels along the same timeline as the Losties, rather than with the physical features of the island. This is the only way to reconcile the fact that the wheel is skipping when Locke gets to it even though it is way before Ben's time. So, even though Locke is turning it before Ben in 'Island Time', I think he is turning it after Ben in 'Lostie Time'. (Seems like there is a Jimmy Buffet reference in here somewhere...)

I am thinking of the wheel as more than just a physical feature of the island, like a rock, tree, etc. I think it is closer to being the heart/soul of the island, like a semi/sentient being, if that makes sense. If it is connected to the Exotic matter, this could make sense, because we do not know what the exotic matter is. Possibly it is not of this world... so we may not be able to apply the same natural laws to it.

#299. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 5:07 PM

→ 294. ealgumby: "SOME people (inside joke ;) ) have given me grief for suggesting Miles...:

Yeah, yeah, yeah...open mouth, insert foot, close & swallow. Repeat... ; > ; > ; >

Re Miles being the baby: While I should have gone to bed...or done some homework...or edited a paper...I stayed up late last night reading Lostpedia, including the transcript of "LaFleur." Nowhere in the transcript does it specifically say that the baby is Horace's biological son (it does specifically say that Horace & Amy are married), so it's certainly possible that the baby is not Horace's biological son, & therefore the baby's biological father could be an Asian man & thus the baby could be Miles. Open mouth, insert foot... ; >

Re Desmond's timeline: I'm wondering if TPTB messed it up a bit, as events from Des's life circa 1995-1996 seem to be a bit too compressed. Ruth comments that the closest thing that Desmond had to a religious experience is when Celtic won the football championship in 1995, so it would appear that they were still dating in 1995. Does anyone remember how long Desmond was a monk? It was long enough to impress Brother Campbell w/Desmond's ability to stick w/it, anyway. Then, after Desmond left the monastery, he dated Penny for at least a couple of years before the fateful meeting w/Ms. Hawking & subsequent break-up w/Penny. It wasn't until after that that he joined the Royal Scots Regiment...yet Lostpedia states that he joined them in 1996. And it was while Desmond was in the military that he showed up at Oxford & met Daniel. Something doesn't quite add up date-wise...

#300. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 6, 2009 5:10 PM

One of the Darlton podcasts confirnmed that Mikhail is now really, most sincerely dead.
→ 293. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 6, 2009 4:28 PM

Affirmative! ("Humans Are Dead". Any other Flight of the Conchords fans here?)

#301. Posted by: lovelost at March 6, 2009 5:12 PM

297. Posted by: shikotee

I agree, sometimes a baby is just a baby... and an extra, just an extra... and toes, just toes... ;)
_______________________________

Have you all become like me, and started looking for mysteries and clues in everything you see? I found myself watching 24 and thinking, thats a clue! Then I remembered that not all shows are Lost... Boy! I will miss this show when it is gone, and I sincerely hope something just as good (or dare I say better..) comes along soon.

#302. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 5:15 PM

Isn't there an ex-criminal who was converted by Jesus in the biblical stories and became one of his followers? Or am I making that up? Well, at least we have a fisher man amongst our Losties.
→ 253. Posted by: Plain Simple

You mean Barabas, the thief.
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
→ 270. Posted by: Tinchorama
Wouldn´t it be great if the baby ends up being Aaron father? We have hardly met the paintor who was Claire´s boyfriend.

I remember seeing screen caps of the apartment they lived in and there were paintings on the wall that later show up in Widmore's bedroom/hall. Was he an artist?

llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

→ 281. Posted by: lovelost
Re Henry Gale.
If you go the Widmore Group site and look at the "news" it has a memo on the loss of their beloved employee.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
→ 285. Posted by: Scooby-Dude
You mean like in hip hop music where they mess with the spinning of the record to get that funny nose? (As if I know anything about Hip Hop.)

When I was little me and my girlfriend would throw all her grandpops records on the floor and run and slide on them. We got into a lot of trouble. And really must have messed with somebody's time line.
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

#303. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 5:21 PM

283. Posted by: freckles

Is this Freckles form Spoiler?

Hello anyway.

#304. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 5:23 PM

Hi.. I've been lurking and reading this for a few years now. It's a wonderful site. Recaps are the best and the comments are, for the most part, very thought provoking (or nosebleed inducing). I hope this hasn't been mentioned before but in answer to someone's question about Horace talking about "the island's indigenous people" could they be the descendants of the people who were on the Black Rock? I heard/read somewhere that it was a slave ship from the late eighteen hundreds. Wasn't it the ships log that Widmore bought at auction? Someone, somehow took it off the island. Perhaps they figured out the time travel thing as well. RA and the other others could simply be some of those descendants and the reason he never ages is because he went back in time. He might even have been the one who found/took the log book. Thoughts??

#305. Posted by: Lost Lurker at March 6, 2009 5:34 PM

Did anyone notice that RA asked Sawyer on the park bench "What" are you, not "Who" are you? Love the show & love the blog! Great review & comments.

#306. Posted by: David at March 6, 2009 5:39 PM

regarding the statue.

It is not wearing the same kind of clothes that Anubis and others are depicted as wearing. It looks more like a tunic. And the hair seems to be just long hair, not that cowl thing ion the shoulders.

The ears are not as long as Anubis or a jackals'. More like a dogs ears or a cat. And it has a little pill box type hat on it's head and not the larger "hats" preferred by most gods of Egypt. Maybe the hat is a kind of fire pit. I think the statue is like the Colossus of Rhodes. A Lighthouse and a fire is set in the hat to be a beacon.

#307. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 5:42 PM

If you go the Widmore Group site and look at the "news" it has a memo on the loss of their beloved employee.
→ 303. Posted by: berkyo at March 6, 2009 5:21 PM

I visited the site and didn't see the Henry Gale memo, but I did see the following:

2006.05.08 - Widmore Group announces the opening of Widmore Laboratories newest pharmaceutical manufacturing facility in Mississauga, Ontario. The new facility has been custom built for Widmore with the latest technology to ensure sterilization standards and product segregation.

Shikotee, you’re from Ontario, right? Is this facility close to you? LOL

#308. Posted by: lovelost at March 6, 2009 5:53 PM

It looks like the statue is holding large ankh's in both hands.

#309. Posted by: David at March 6, 2009 5:59 PM

Old news....but here's the Widmore Group's farewell to Henry Gale.

http://www.minnesotametallurgy.com/4436.html

#310. Posted by: lovelost at March 6, 2009 6:10 PM

@253. Posted by: Plain Simple
re: ex-criminal who was converted by Jesus

You are thinking of St. Paul, and his conversion on the road to Damascus (AD33). Prior to conversion, he was Saul, and he greatly persecuted the followers of Jesus. He experienced a vision of the resurrected Jesus after which he was temporarily blinded. Unlike Jesus' apostles in Jerusalem, Paul had not known Jesus in person.

http://tinyurl.com/a55tz

@262. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
re: This week we have so far ST:TNG, the Tick, and Land of the Lost, Survivor

You cold man!
Way to snub "Doctor Who"!

Now PiecesofArzt, FenwayBen, and I are gonna have "Exterminate" you for your poor judgment! Or maybe we'll just sick K-9 on you!

#311. Posted by: shikotee at March 6, 2009 6:26 PM

i was just thinking what if Amy's baby boy is Desmond. Maybe thats why he is special and has this knowing way of saying "see you in another life". Just a thought.

#312. Posted by: northernsplash at March 6, 2009 6:45 PM

ok, so i didn't read past post 100 or so, so perhaps someone else has already brought this up... but daniel faraday started bleeding pretty soon after charlotte, right? indicating he's been on the island longer than juliet, right? and we know the baby is maybe 27ish by 2004... i would have guessed faraday's age closer to 30, but it seems possible that he could be the baby? doesn't the mother of the baby sort of resemble ms. hawking? i dunno why her name would have changed though... so maybe this is silly

#313. Posted by: toni at March 6, 2009 6:49 PM

@ 144. Posted by: ealgumby

“…when RA met little Ben in the forest, he was all long-hair-hippie with grungy clothes, but last night he was clean cut, ala '54 RA. Both scenes *should* be fairly close in time ... probably means nothing (continuity error?), but noticed it anyway ...”

I keep remembering the scene from the Finale of season 2 when Jack, Kate, and Sawyer are on the dock and it is revealed that Mr Friendly (Tom) was wearing a fake beard. I think that Sayid also discovered that the “camp” where the others took Michael was just a “set”. Then later on while exploring the medical hatch (I forget the name of it) someone I think Claire or Kate discover a locker full of disguises (fake beard & tattered clothes).

Perhaps Richard was in disguise at the time that he met young Ben.

I don’t recall that we were told why the “others” sometimes dress this way. It seems that they only do this when interacting with people who are new to the island (i.e. when they were on the boat that took Walt, when they traded Kate for the guns, etc.) because we clearly saw that when they are living in their houses in Bennsylvania, they dress normally.

@ 169. Posted by: IslandHopper

“…I posted last week that Jack and Granddad Ray could be one in the same…”

I never got around to replying to this last week, but since you bring it up again. I did notice when watching the scene with Jack and Ray (and I realize that this probably sounds a bit crazy) but both actors have crooked bottom teeth. At the time I was just thinking what clever casting, makes it seem like a family resemblance.

@ 189. Posted by: DC-Matt

“…What about Henry Gale, the black dude in the balloon????? Who was he????...”

Top of my Unaswered Questions list: Who buried Henry Gale?

I mean Sayid dug him up so that he could find Henry’s drivers license and prove that Ben was not really Henry. But who buried him in the first place? We’ve seen that the “others” don’t bury their own people (Colleen was sent to sea on a raft and Goodwin was left where he lay impaled on a pointy stick). From what I recall Henry had been alive for at least a short while before dying because he wrote a letter to his wife (Jennifer?) on a dollar bill or something. So she must not have been with him when his balloon landed on the island, so who buried him?

@ → 204. Posted by: Lost in ca

“…why did everybody stay on the island for those three years.…”

That is exactly what I have been wanting to post, however I had 300+ posts to read first… I wonder the same thing.

I mean obviously if they are now in 1974-1977 they really don’t have anything to “back” to off island. But is that really any reason to stay? I can see that maybe at first they were waiting for Lock’s return. But who would wait 3 years? After all the FOOMs had stopped FOOMING after Locke turned the wheel (clearly bringing the O6 back to the island had nothing to do with ending the FOOMS) so I could see waiting a few weeks maybe even a month or two, but three years? What are they waiting for at this point?

Even if John Locke comes back, why would that matter to them at this point? I just don’t see their motivation for staying on the island. OK so Juliet and Sawyer decided they wanted to be together, that still doesn’t seem like a reason to remain on the island. They could be together anywhere. And what would be the motivation for Jin, Dan, or Miles to stay with them? There must be something that takes place during that three year period (closer to the beginning of the three year period) that we have not yet seen.

Of course I also remember Ben telling Locke that the submarine gives people the “perception” that they can leave at any time. This is right before Locke blows up the submarine. So maybe they really wouldn’t have gotten to leave?

I found it interesting to see Juliet sitting on that dock by the submarine, wanting to leave the island (in 1977) and getting talked out of going after having seen Juliet on the dock wanting to leave the island (in 1994) and the sub blows up. That was your chance Juliet!

@ 303. Posted by: berkyo

Re Claire’s exboyfiend Tom “…Was he an artist?...”

I was thinking about that. Tom was an artist (painter) and so was Michael. Both contemplated giving up their art because of an unplanned pregnancy with their girlfriends. Both of them do not marry their girlfriends. Both of them wind up the father to baby boys. Tom never sees his child and Michael loses touch with his son for about 10 years. Both of the boys (Aaron and Walt) wind up on the island. We know Walt is “special” and we suspect that Aaron may be special too. What does Art have to do with it? I have no idea, but it is interesting that the storylines have so many parallels.

Also someone (Kelvin or maybe Radinski) was painting inside the hatch before Desmond came along and Charles Widmore had a similar painting in his office. And in one episode we see Desmond painting a wall red in Penny’s apartment (OK that was a bit of a stretch).

#314. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at March 6, 2009 7:04 PM

@303. Posted by: berkyo
re: Barabbas

Ummm... Not quite.

During the passover, when Jesus was in custody, tradition dictated that Pontius Pilate release a criminal chosen by the crowd. Barabbas was a criminal who was also sentenced to be crucified, and it was he who the crowd chose to be freed (instead of Jesus of Nazareth).

@308. Posted by: lovelost
re: Widmore Labs, Mississauga

Is that an "official" Lost site?
Seems kinda skimpy...

Mississauga is a large suburb west of Toronto. I generally refer to it as hell, due to cookie-cutter housing, where if you removed the #'s from the houses, people would likely have a hard time finding their own home!

Most impressive is the mayor of Mississauga, Hazel McCallion, aged 88, who has served as mayor for 31 consecutive years. Just saw her a few weeks ago at a function, and she was great! Keeping my fingers crossed that if I ever reach such an age (lots of time), that I manage to be as together and vibrant as she is!

http://tinyurl.com/aeygtu

#315. Posted by: shikotee at March 6, 2009 7:07 PM

Sorry for such a long post, it didn't look that long when I was typing it in MS Word.

#316. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at March 6, 2009 7:10 PM

? 269. Scooby-Dude
Thanks for the shout out Scooby. I thought the cameraman was Sawyer, and even kept rewatching it to find out for sure. They never showed his face clearly, but from the Farrah hair, I thought it was Sawyer.

? 282. lovelost
Scottsdale, ay?! I'm in Chandler...way south Chandler...bordering the next county

? 45. Clementine
The statue looked like a woman from the back.

I thought so too. (Thought maybe Juliet, even.) But the theory of it being an Egyptian statue such as Anubis would certainly make sense too.

? 109. AbeFroman
Are you in fact THE Abe Froman...the Sausage King of Chicago (and Ferris Bueller)?
Also, I don't think the baby is Goodwin. I thought he was in his 40s

********
I liked how Sawyer had just finished telling Horace that it's been three years, give it up already. That's enough time to get over someone/something. Then FOOM! Kate's back. He was not over her by a longshot.
********

Speculation: The "incident" happens (caused by Faraday to get them back to their own time). That results in Dharma's need to recruit people to replace the lost personnel (Sawyer, et al.) who FOOMed out

#317. Posted by: Gumbo at March 6, 2009 7:22 PM

i just watched the new episode for the first time,i was surprised but not overly so,
we had a show in the uk before season 5 began, it featured some idiot english comedian chatting to the cast of lost on-set, sawyer,jin & a few other actors, all wearing dharma clothes, im glad i can type about it in here now, i wasnt sure if you guys seen this spoil show, i wont watch it again, anyway-fantastic episode, it has to be at least 3 views to get all of it

#318. Posted by: san at March 6, 2009 8:34 PM

→ 306. Posted by: David
Did anyone notice that RA asked Sawyer on the park bench "What" are you, not "Who" are you?

Awesome David. I caught it, but it didn't imprint.

→ 314. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost

Yeah, the Jack & Ray meeting has me tweaked. Obviously I can't let it go in the posts. "Others" also have noticed the chance of 4 generations of "Jack" on the island-- if the Kate rumor comes to pass.

#319. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 6, 2009 9:12 PM

268. Posted by: Lost in ca asked Since when can't ghosts change clothes? Is that a rule?

Of course it is silly, it is on page 100 of "A Handbook for the Recently Deceased"!

307. Posted by: berkyo The ears are not as long as Anubis or a jackals'. More like a dogs ears or a cat.

Maybe it is Vincent. Seriously, that was the impression I had as well. I like the beacon idea. But to warn ships away from the shore ore to lure them in? Maybe that is how the Black Rock and Rousseau's team ended up ship wreaked.

#320. Posted by: surefoot at March 6, 2009 9:16 PM

@313/toni: "ok, so i didn't read past post 100 or so, so perhaps someone else has already brought this up... but daniel faraday started bleeding pretty soon after charlotte, right? indicating he's been on the island longer than juliet, right? and we know the baby is maybe 27ish by 2004... i would have guessed faraday's age closer to 30, but it seems possible that he could be the baby?"

It's funny you mention this, because I just got back from dinner with my kids, and my son pointed something out when I mentioned Miles as a possibility ... that Miles had the second nose bleed after Charlotte, so he must have been on the island nearly as long. Upon reflection, he was right ... and Faraday did not get the bloody nose ... it was Miles, not Daniel (then Juliet, and finally Sawyer).

So ... what seemed pretty random at first now seems much more likely ... Miles is most likely the baby, IMO. As I mentioned earlier, Daniel is too old (Oxford prof in '96), etc.


#321. Posted by: ealgumby at March 6, 2009 9:56 PM

321. Posted by: ealgumby So ... what seemed pretty random at first now seems much more likely ... Miles is most likely the baby

This is starting to sound more and more plausible. After all, Miles knew that Charlotte had been on the island before. Maybe he remembers her from before she left.

#322. Posted by: surefoot at March 6, 2009 10:03 PM

hit post too quickly. Just wanted to add that Miles' Asian/Oriental appearance could be because his mother was artificially inseminated.

#323. Posted by: surefoot at March 6, 2009 10:07 PM

I thought the reason Sawyer & crew decided to stay on the island is because if they went to the real world they'd be 30 years in the past.

Personally, if it meant I could get dim sum again, I'd leave the freaking island in a hot second. Or primerib with horseradish...it just occurred to me I haven't eaten today.

#324. Posted by: undaunted at March 6, 2009 10:16 PM

@323/surefoot: "Just wanted to add that Miles' Asian/Oriental appearance could be because his mother was artificially inseminated."

Or perhaps because she had an affair with Dr. Chang ...

#325. Posted by: ealgumby at March 6, 2009 10:39 PM

@ 324. Posted by: undaunted

re: motivations for leaving the island

There are plenty of reasons to leave, even if you can't have your old life back. Although Dharma seems to provide almost everything, there are clearly things available on the mainland that aren't on the island. Hospitals for example. Disneyland for another!
___________________________________

@ the Baby is Miles theory

I can't remember why, maybe someone with a better memory can fill us in, but for some reason I had the impression when we first saw Miles on island that he and Charlotte had both been their before. I believe it was a scene on the beach, or at the tree line of the beach. Anybody remember...?

Regarding his ethnicity, I believe Reiko A. (Amy) is part Japanese, but this would not account for the way Miles looks. Could Amy have had an affair with Dr. Candle? If so, Horace had a much larger reason to blow up those poor, innocent trees...

#326. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 6, 2009 10:54 PM

Ok, unless we've been misled as to Charlotte's birthdate, that child is not Charlotte. However, if you listen closely you hear the mother say "come along love."
I think it could be Penny. How many times has she called Desmond 'love.'

How about a twist and the baby is Ethan? He could have been kidnapped as an infant by the others.

#327. Posted by: pebspostal at March 6, 2009 11:10 PM

This goes out to all the Ben lovers out there. You know who you are!

It is a comic strip parody of "Father knows Best" based on the experiences Ben has raising Alex called "Benry Knows Best!!!"

Cute and funny, all at the same time!

http://tinyurl.com/bfwwy7

#328. Posted by: shikotee at March 7, 2009 12:11 AM

eyeliner comment had to be the best in the shows history. those writers get around!

#329. Posted by: laura at March 7, 2009 12:21 AM

@244/Bushhound2252:

"this is getting confusing as far as the "9" lost in time... i count 8 or 10 stuck in 1977(depending on rose/bernard). They are: faraday, miles, sawyer, juliet, jin, jack, hurley, kate, + rose and bernard maybe. Am I missing somebody?"

I was including Sayid based on the previews for the next episode.

@252/Plain Simple:

"For the moment I'll just assume that they cut the bits with Christian out."

But why would they do that?

We've already seen several examples of other scenes that have been reshown, but with subtle differences (helping to support the time looping theory).

I have to believe Christian was deliberately omitted, including the dialogue where Locke asks for his son's name right before he travels to Tunisia.

I can only think of two choices: either to show us that Christian is a vision/manifestation, similiar to Hurley being pulled over by Ana-Lucia, or that Locke has been there done that with the FDW more than once.


@258/pebspostal:

"I feel like the original hostiles took in the remaining Dharma people that happened to survive the purge."

This has been confirmed by D&C in past podcasts- the Others collect people over time, including former Dharma members.

@269/Scooby-Dude:

"I think Ben said Charlotte was born in 1979. He also said she was born in England. Ben = Liar. Thus, I don't think Charlotte's date of birth has been firmly established."

True, but if it was Charlotte in 1974, that would make her at least 8-9 years older than previously believed, and you would have to believe that Charlotte was around 40 years old when she died.

I still think that '74 scene was meant to show us his obsession, rather than connect that little girl as Charlotte.

@276/Cecil Rose:

"I was under the impression that the original purpose of the sonic fence was to keep out the Hostiles"

We've already seen the hostiles/others attack inside the compound in Ben's flashbacks, an incident apparently common enough that even the school marm comes a 'packin.

Based on the scene where Smokey/Cerebus was chasing Kate & Juliet and stopped cold at the sonic fence, I think that was exactly the reason for its original installation.

@295/berkyo:

"I thought Ben did not know about the Swan. Where did I hear that? He knows everything so why didn't he have the swan monitored and then he would have known that Desmond was going to blow the hatch."

This was confirmed by D&C several seasons ago that the Swan was a secret Dharma installation and was unknown by Ben until its discovery by Locke- and getting inside to poke around was a big part of the reason "Henry Gale" allowed
himself to be captured by Ms. Rousseau.

#330. Posted by: Mizzed at March 7, 2009 1:11 AM

BTW, wouldn't it be nice to permanently FOOM certain theories that have repeatedly been squashed either by Darlton or by the episodes themselves?

As a start, I would like to nominate the following for extinction into the time of ancient jackal-looking statues:

1. The various "dead" theories. D&C have consistently refuted these theories since season 1.

The Others and the Losties eat, sleep, have surgeries, get killed, relieve themselves in the bushes and do the nasty. If that ain't living, what is?

2. Any Smokey is mechanical theory. It guards the island's temple, can transform itself into human shape, can see into people's minds, and evaluates and judge people's alignment and intentions on a dime. It also won the island olympics gold medal in the tree climbing contest, although Kate was a close second.

If that's man-made, get me the stock ticker of the company that holds that patent.

3. Any parallel and/or multiverse theories. Another old chestnut, another theory refuted by TPB since season 1. Sorry, kids, but season 6 will not feature a texas cage match to the death between Earth-1 Superman, Earth-2 Superman and Bizarro Superman.

4. Any theories that reference Locke, four toes and ancient statue, all in the same sentence.

5. Any theories that reference Nikki and Paulo, diamonds, medusa spiders and "relevant" all in the same sentence.

The writers blew it with that storyline, they ' fessed up to their mistake, time to move along folks, there's nothing to see.

6. Any theories that use as primary evidence anything that Ben said, from "the freighter frito banditos will kill us all" to "anyone who turns the FDW can never go back".

7. Theories that Christian and Locke are in the same general state of mind and body, at least until we see Jack's proud pappy sucking on mango and interacting with more than one person at a time.

8. Finally, I propose a strict and immediate Ranger Rick Eagle Eye FOOM on any post that contains the following: "did anyone else notice the Former Well-Known Cast Member who was standing in the background amongst a group of extras and who could only be identified through a hdtv broadcast that was paused and then advanced frame by frame?

#331. Posted by: Mizzed at March 7, 2009 1:37 AM

@328 shikotee revealed:

>It is a comic strip parody of "Father knows Best" based on the experiences Ben has raising Alex called "Benry Knows Best!!!"

>Cute and funny, all at the same time!

>http://tinyurl.com/bfwwy7

Outstanding!

The last one (top of the page) really cracked me up.

o==========

@331 Mizzed destroyed our most precious illusions:

Spoil Sport 8{B>P}


o==========

For anyone who cares, Survivor review's up. Click my name to go there...

#332. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 7, 2009 3:24 AM

@131, Paulo: "Maybe Ben and Richard brought Juliet to the island knowing that the baby they have is Annie."

Ben and Richard will have a baby?


****

@133, IslandHopper: "I might beg to differ. He's 'da man calling the shots for the fate of Sawyer and crew (for the time being) and also took the lead to represent the camp during Alpert's arrival."

The Dharma Initiative is a big organisation. Horace felt more like the local leader, for the community in pre-Others New Otherton.


***

@137, Stocky: "I think the ONLY posible exception to this we have seen would be Desmond seeing the flashes of Charlie dying, and then preventing it from happening each time (until the last time anyway)."

And even that can hardly be said to be changing the past or interfering in the timeline or anything like that. Desmond knew that if he wouldn't act Charlie would die, so he acted. It's like I'm driving a car and I know that if I don't brake at the end of the street I crash into a wall and die. So I brake. Did I change the timeline by doing that? Of course not. The only difference with Desmond is that he got this knowledge through mysterious Island flashes. It might turn out that what the writer's are going for is the time loop or changing the past angle, I'm just saying that what we've seen so far seems to point to a 'whatever happened happened' explanation. The only thing that flat out contradicts this is Daniel saying that Desmond is special, but then, the characters on Lost say a lot of things that turn out to be not (completely) true or should be interpreted differently than thought at first.

****

@141, Cecil Rose: "Where's "here?""

Or should you ask "when's here?" ;)


Well, since you didn't I'll just answer what you did ask: Vancouver.


***

"Nothing from the moment when Ben strangles Sawyer"

Well, to be fair, none of us saw that I guess. Was that before or after he had that baby with Richard. :)

***

@150, schiano: "He [Sawyer] lies on the island with dharma"

If a man lies with Dharma he shall surely be strangled.

I'm piecing it together here. :)

***

@152, Crispy Seaplanes: "way to make him look different. Hope it gets explained eventually. Maybe he liked pre-Dharma Sawyer's look and was trying to ape it. Then Mr. Lafleur let him know that he held the copyright to the old Seattle grunge thing...Is there a Starbucks in Bensylvania?"

Lol

***

I can't keep up with the posting here anymore. I'm only halfway through... Well, the rest is for another day.

#333. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 7, 2009 4:54 AM

I can't figure out the relevance, but Amy/Paul had a gun(revolver) that the other picked up off the ground and stuck in his belt at his back. There was 2 shots fired and only one apparent hole in Paul. Maybe Amy shot Paul, and that's why the others where grabbing her.

This would be the first time (pre-Ben) that others have used walkie-talkies. A nitpick, but that was NOT a 70's vintage talkie. Jin took the talkie off of pistol packing other. Who by the way they let us see had five toes!

#334. Posted by: mtncbn at March 7, 2009 7:51 AM

@330 Mizzed

Ben did know about the Swan Station. He was viewing the station from the '?'. Paulo was hiding diamonds in the crapper while watching Ben & Juliette discussing the 815 survivors.

All good theories. Enjoying the comments as much as the show. I even had time to read all 334 of them.

#335. Posted by: onelostdude at March 7, 2009 9:47 AM

@331. Posted by: Mizzed
re: The forum is like "Groundhog Day"!

LoL! It is redundantly funny, though not necessarily in a good way, to see the same things popping up over and over again. Regarding what TPTB have squashed, to a certain degree, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt - especially with what they squashed at the onset. Their goal was to keep us interested, and with the way the stories played out, we just didn't need to know the master plan.

Myself - I'm at a crossroads of sorts. At different points, I think I've taken this show way too seriously, as is no doubt the case for several people. At the end of the day - it's entertainment - it's a fluffy distraction from all the shitty things in the world!

Don't get me wrong - I love the analysis, thought provocation, etc. But sometimes I think back to an SNL episode
from the 80's, Bill Shatner hosting, doing a parody of a Trekkie convention, where he is answering questions from the fans as himself.

So - could you help settle a bet for me - In episode 37, where Kirk blah blah blah, what was the combination of the safe?

I dunno - sometimes it feels like this is what WE (myself - equally as guilty) have come to!

Anyhoots....

Mizzed - loved the Earth-1 and Earth-2 Superman reference! Perhaps we need some sort of Crisis of Infinite Earths here!

re: "did anyone else notice the Former Well-Known Cast Member who was standing in the background"

People just don't know the rules of the game. If Charlie Pace is going to appear in an episode, rest assured that you will see Dominic Monaghan's name in the credits. TPTB don't have a choice in this, no matter how tricky they wish to be - Union rules!

Lastly, there is no Santa Clause, no Easter Bunny, and no Tooth Fairy!

BWAAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

#336. Posted by: shikotee at March 7, 2009 9:51 AM

310. Posted by: lovelost

Thanks.

#337. Posted by: berkyo at March 7, 2009 10:00 AM

→ 330. Posted by: Mizzed
I can only think of two choices: either to show us that Christian is a vision/manifestation, similiar to Hurley being pulled over by Ana-Lucia, or that Locke has been there done that with the FDW more than once.

Like the beginning and end scene of the epi about the return to the island. These are not errors or time saving things. I think these scenes are important. They are flashbacks or flashforwards and we are overlooking them.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

→ 331. Posted by: Mizzed

Thanks,Mizzed.......So, now, What shall we talk about?;)

#338. Posted by: berkyo at March 7, 2009 10:22 AM

@307 berkyo
The statue is the goddess Taweret, who is represented as a fertility god, as a mother guardian to the Egyptian people.

But in the Book of the Dead, Taweret was seen as a goddess who guided the dead into the afterlife. As with her double nature of protector and guardian, she was also a guard to the mountains of the west where the deceased entered the land of the dead. Many of the deities relating to birth also appear in the underworld to help with the rebirth of the souls into their life after death.

#339. Posted by: welh at March 7, 2009 10:22 AM

@335/onelostdude:

"Ben did know about the Swan Station. He was viewing the station from the '?'. Paulo was hiding diamonds in the crapper while watching Ben & Juliette discussing the 815 survivors."

I agree that it is confusing. But I think what we are supposed to believe is that Ben knew about the Pearl, but not the Swan.

Essentially, they believed that all Dharma stations had been captured or were inactive, so there was no reason to send someone down to the Pearl to look for new, previously "unknown" stations.

I suppose it's a minor point, other than it helps to explain why the leader of the Others would allow himself to be captured to gain access to the Swan.

From Lostpedia:

"The Others initially seemed to have no knowledge of the purpose or function of the Swan station. Shortly after the castaways entered the Swan, the Others became aware of what they had done via surveillance."

"On November 7, 2004 (three days after the castaways entered the Swan) Tom is known to have used the Pearl to observe the interior of the Swan. Two days later, Ben and Juliet visited the Pearl to briefly observe Jack. At that time, Ben outlined a plan that strongly suggested that the Others were able to send messages to the Swan computer from an unknown location. These messages were apparently directed at Michael."

"In the March 20, 2007 Official Lost Podcast, Carlton Cuse confirmed that The Others had no knowledge of the Swan station; hence, Radzinsky, Kelvin Joe Inman, and/or Desmond were not killed during the Purge along with the rest of the DHARMA Initiative."

#340. Posted by: Mizzed at March 7, 2009 10:39 AM

@ 340 Mizzed

Okay, I am working off of memory here. You have done a whole more research than me! I sit corrected, or more informed at the very least. I have been to Lostpedia, but don't go into that much detail. I am surprised that Ben did not know about it the Swan.

I don't agree with it, and is has already be refuted, but I did get a chuckle out of Sawyer and Tom being one in the same. That would make TPTB about as evil as Ben! What a way to play with our minds. I guess they like simple toys. :-D

#341. Posted by: onelostdude at March 7, 2009 10:51 AM

From the beginning of the show, the viewers saw the premise of Lost as being the lives of plane crash "survivors" on a mysterious island. But this may be a mere illusion to both the viewers and the characters.

If the characters believe they are still alive in their real world context, then their perception of the island is different from those characters who know that this is not their past lifetime but a new one. That knowledge and recognition is power.

Example: Locke believes that he is alive and that he has been healed by the crash; a miracle. However, Rose believes everything would be alright because her painful terminal cancer was gone - - and the only way that would occur would be in death.

#342. Posted by: welh at March 7, 2009 11:00 AM

As has been noted, this forum is constantly barraged with the same ideas/discussions, over and over again.

In the show Lost, many of us have observed various themes, character actions, transpiring over and over again.

While I was waiting until the show would introduce a character called "Friedrich", perhaps now is a good time to discuss the age-old concept of the "Eternal Return", aka "Eternal Recurrence". Not sure if this has ever been discussed here...

Myself - I was first introduced to the concept whilst taking a university course on the writings of Friedrich Nietzsche.

___________________________

From wikipedia:

- The Eternal Recurrence posits that the universe has been recurring, and will continue to recur in a self-similar form an infinite number of times.

- The concept has roots in ancient Egypt, and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans and Stoics.

- With the decline of antiquity and the spread of Christianity, the concept fell into disuse, though Friedrich Nietzsche resurrected it on the grounds that it provides a reason for affirming life after the decline of theism.

- The basic premise is that the universe is limited in extent and contains a finite amount of matter, while time is viewed as being infinite. The universe has no starting or ending state, while the matter comprising it is constantly changing its state. The number of possible changes is finite, and so sooner or later the same state will recur.

- Physicists such as Stephen Hawking and J. Richard Gott have proposed models by which the (or a) universe could undergo time travel, provided the balance between mass and energy created the appropriate cosmological geometry.

- In ancient Egypt, the scarab (or dung beetle) was viewed as a sign of eternal renewal and reemergence of life, a reminder of the life to come.

- Nietzsche calls the idea "horrifying and paralyzing", and says that its burden is the "heaviest weight" imaginable. The wish for the eternal return of all events would mark the ultimate affirmation of life:

"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.' [The Gay Science, §341]"

- To comprehend eternal recurrence in his thought, and to not merely come to peace with it but to embrace it, requires amor fati, "love of fate":

"My formula for human greatness is amor fati: that one wants to have nothing different, not forward, not backward, not in all eternity. Not merely to bear the necessary, still less to conceal it--all idealism is mendaciousness before the necessary--but to love it."

_____________________________


In popular culture, we've seen this concept explored: in comical fashion, like the movie "Groundhog Day", and in mysterious fashion, like the mysterious belief system of the Cylons in Battlestar Gallactica ("All this has happened before, and all this will happen again").

I think the concept has played a huge influence on how TPTB have defined time travel in the show. You can also see how certain characters are stuck in this, constantly making the same mistakes, etc.

In any case - I'll end this with one of my favorite Nietzsche quotes, used very effectively in "The Watchmen" comic (have not seen the movie - yet!).

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
- Nietzsche

#343. Posted by: shikotee at March 7, 2009 12:16 PM

I just wanted to settle this question once and for all. Miles could be Amy's baby or Miles could be Dr. Chang's baby or Amy's baby could be Dr. Chang's baby or Miles is not Amy's baby or Miles is not Dr. Chang's baby or Amy's baby is not Dr. Chang's baby. OK, now that that's settled...

About leaving the island, I doubt Sawyer thinks he'd have a better life off the island, hence he stays. Juliet staying is more of a mystery to me, but maybe the successful birth of a baby gives her a reason to stay and try to prevent what is to happen later on regarding having babies on the island.

@330 Mizzed and others:
About the red-haired girl seeming to be too old to be Charlotte. Let's say the girl was born in 1971 and was 3 when we saw her in 1974. We know Charlotte was on the island and left when she was young enough for her mother to tell her the island didn't really exist, plus she was pretty comfortable in Tunisia in her flashback, so what if she was donkey-wheeled off the island in 1977 at the age of 6 and flashed forward three years, like Locke, to 1980 to begin her life in Essex. In 2007, she would thus be 33 (6 + 27) in real years even though she was born in 1971. You can play around with the birthdate and number of years flashed ahead, but I do think that could be the reason for the seeming age disparity. I would love to see the scene where the crazy man (Daniel) tells the little confused red-haired girl not to come back to the island. That would be too funny/bizarre/scary.

@331 Mizzed
Great post. And mea culpa on my Sawyer was the cameraman theory. P.S. How many toes does Sawyer have?!?!

#344. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 7, 2009 2:09 PM

re: Eternal Recurrence and Lost

Did a Google search to see if anyone else was making this connection. Some have tossed this connection around since the time when Desmond started his mental time travel.

Found a discussion regarding this connection triggered by "LaFleur", where wikipedia was also used to help explain things:

http://tinyurl.com/dxwkje

I highly recommend this to people who are having issues with the time travel aspects of the show.

It nails what likely triggered my thoughts - Faraday's depression over the loss of Charlotte.

He proclaims - "I won't. I won't do it. I won't tell her. I won't."

But we just know that at some point, it will happen.

#345. Posted by: shikotee at March 7, 2009 2:58 PM

Clearly our discussions are LOOPING back on themselves... I suppose this will happen until we get it right!

#346. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 7, 2009 4:09 PM

Sorry I haven't gotten very far in the posts and I have kinda been skipping around a bit, but...

Did anyone think that Charlotte HAD TO die so that she wouldn't see/come in contact with the younger version of herself?

So why did Ms. Hawking say that the ISLAND was skipping through time, but then when we actually see the island, it appears that the (select few) PEOPLE are skipping through time?

Can't anyone anticipate Sawyer saying (referring to Purge), "Captain bunny killer here got buddy buddy with Alpert's gang and they wiped all you bastards out and stuck you in a damn hole!" ?

Anyway, about the Sawyer crew surviving the purge, they probably won't be staying that long, so it doesn't really matter. (Unless I got the timing off).

#347. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 7, 2009 4:10 PM

@ benlinusrocks -- back off kiddo. (Unless you're a straight guy... then I admire your admiration for Benny!!!)

By the way -- I went to the pet store and saw a white(ish) bunny that I wanted. I was going to buy it, draw an 8 on it, and name it Benny, Ben, Lima Bean, or Servando... But my mom said no.

They kinda reminded me of Lenny from Of Mice and Men.

#348. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 7, 2009 4:14 PM

@ yim02 - 145
"Juliet never seems to be "surprised" by anything - not sure whether it is just the actors style or what?"

She always has the same expression on her face with that slight smirkish smile. Bothers me too.

... except for the time she yelled at Ben for "lying" to her about her sister. That was pretty intense and scary. Looked like it came out of some soap opera or something.

#349. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 7, 2009 4:18 PM

This is somewhat completely irrelevant, but does anyone remember the "downtown" song (I don't know the title, but that's what I call it) that came up on several occasions with Juliet?

Anyway, that song has been in my head for over a week now. I can't seem to get it out.

In case anyone was wondering, Juliet was listening to it in the opening scene of the 3rd season (A Tale of Two Cities) before her bookclub meeting and before we saw the plane crash from New Otherton's view.

It was also in "One of Us" when Juliet was leaving with RA and Mitteloes Bioscience. Then it comes up again when they showed the book club thing again.

#350. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 7, 2009 4:25 PM

@350 ilovebenjaminlinusxx

I believe the title is 'Downtown' by Dusty Springfield

#351. Posted by: onelostdude at March 7, 2009 5:09 PM

@ 350 ilovebenjaminlinus -
same thing for me when it played marvin candle record he played, every time i thought about the tune it played with the jump on the record, another 1 i had in my head for so long was the mama kas tune (better everyday) it played when michael dawson was trying to kill himself in his car, the tunes just seem to stick.

#352. Posted by: san at March 7, 2009 7:17 PM

petula clark: "Downtown"

#353. Posted by: undaunted at March 7, 2009 7:29 PM

there's a lot to go through here but i can't see any mention of the fact that the island no longer exists in it's original time although it would appear to exist in both the past and the future.

Is it that the island only exists in one timezone at a time?

#354. Posted by: R Wizzlw at March 7, 2009 7:32 PM

WARNING: Long post re Nietzschean deep thoughts on eternal recurrence … ignore at will …

@343/shikotee:

“In popular culture, we've seen this concept explored: in comical fashion, like the movie ‘Groundhog Day’, and in mysterious fashion, like the mysterious belief system of the Cylons in Battlestar Gallactica (‘All this has happened before, and all this will happen again’).

I think the concept has played a huge influence on how TPTB have defined time travel in the show. You can also see how certain characters are stuck in this, constantly making the same mistakes, etc.”

@345/shikotee:

>>>
Found a discussion regarding this connection triggered by "LaFleur", where wikipedia was also used to help explain things:

http://tinyurl.com/dxwkje

I highly recommend this to people who are having issues with the time travel aspects of the show.

It nails what likely triggered my thoughts - Faraday's depression over the loss of Charlotte.

He proclaims - "I won't. I won't do it. I won't tell her. I won't."

But we just know that at some point, it will happen.
>>>

I found your first post interesting, and all the Nietzsche refs spot-on … until I read the second.

I think the link you ref misses the fundamental point of Nietzsche’s argument, and you reinforce that misconception with your final comment … no!

Here is a link to a (IMO) much better synopsis of Nietzschean thought on eternal recurrence (kinda long, but gets to the core of matters at the end, if you’re interested):

tinyurl.com/dzjp9u

To summarize from the last para of this link:

>>>
Perhaps the only way out of this dilemma is to treat the eternal recurrence in a purely hypothetical manner, and to reject the cosmological interpretation entirely. On this basis, one could take it as asking the question: 'If events were to recur, what would your attitude to that be?'. This way of treating the doctrine does not require one to accept the probability, or even the logical possibility of the doctrine. If one can react cheerfully to this hypothetical, then one has defeated nihilism. Such a truly yea-saying life-embracing attitude is the proper attitude of the Übermensch. It is, however, not immediately clear that anyone less than the Übermensch is capable of wholeheartedly adopting this attitude, as has been seen in Zarathustra's troubled reaction to the doctrine. One might almost view the doctrine as a test whereby the Übermensch, or perhaps the higher man or free spirit, can be distinguished from the rest of humanity in dependence on whether their attitude to the doctrine is one of joy or despair.
>>>

The issue is not whether or not Daniel will tell Charlotte to stay away from the island “this time around,” because “what happened, happened,” but whether or not he truly believes it will happen (and if it “truly” does or not is immaterial … see below)! Is he going to be the Übermensch, or Zarathustra, should he embrace the inevitability of eternal recurrence? His internal discussion re telling her or not highlights his current state of NOT yet internalizing the (apparent?) futility of attempting change.

In Groundhog Day, the protagonist did not escape the time loop UNTIL he embraced its inevitability, and resolved to live each day to its fullest regardless, rather than dwell upon its pointlessness. This approach is more consistent with Nietzschean thought re the matter … did Nietzsche really believe in eternal recurrence? Most likely not … rather, it proved a powerful allegory to explain why life should be engaged in completely and positively, rather than giving into the relatively defeatist attitude that one’s life doesn’t matter due to fate.

If this philosophy has any bearing at all on Lost, I think it will be the exact opposite of what you have proposed … “the time loop,” and the negative events associated with it, cannot be escaped until Daniel (et al?) embrace the idea that they have no chance to ever escape it. Only once resolved to having no possible impact, and deciding to live life well instead, will he/they REALLY have an impact, and the time loop will be broken. Essentially, TRYING to change things will fail (as we saw with Des/Charlie and course correction), but by giving in to the thought that things cannot change and resolving to live in the moment instead … only THEN will change be possible!

Not sold on the idea that this is the whole plot/concept behind Lost, but perhaps the subplot of Daniel/Charlotte …

Of course, none of this may have anything to do with the plotline of Lost; just saying I think the eternal recurrence idea, as presented in the link you ref’d, misses the point … JMHO …

#355. Posted by: ealgumby at March 7, 2009 9:07 PM

Oh no! The STATUE again?
Well it’s just something that’s bothering me.

In Egypt I learned a lot about their costumes and beliefs, both ancient and contemporary: ancient Egypt's mythology and Arabic culture. They believed that when a person, like a pharaoh, for instance, returned to life he would incorporate one of his statues bringing it, literally, to life. And so, all statues are represented with their left foot forward so when it happened the first step on their new life would be with the right foot thus bringing good luck to that person. What’s bothering me it’s a minor detail but anyway… our statue appears to have the wrong leg forward! That’s it. It’s out, finally! Breathe in, breathe out…

BTW, all male (ordinary man, pharaoh or God) were represented dressing a short cloth resembling a kilt. All the ladies wore long dresses. So, whoever that might be is definitely a man.
And he’s holding an Ankh in both hands. The Ankh is the symbol of Life. In hieroglyphic characters means "eternal life".

» 248 - Anubis Show Was Awesome suggested Apep, the giant snake, personification of all that was evil.

Apep = Apophis in Greek
Apophis = Goa'uld System Lord

No! Naaa…. Are they going all Stargate on us???

#356. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 7, 2009 10:01 PM

Thoughts on living fully & in the moment:

Be mindful.
—Campbell of Cawdor clan motto

Wherever you go, there you are.
—Jon Kabat-Zinn

Be impeccable with your word.
Don’t take anything personally.
Don’t make assumptions.
Always do your best.
—From The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom, Don Miguel Ruiz

I am learning that if I just go on accepting the framework for life that others have given me, if I fail to make my own choices, the reason for my life will be missing. I will be unable to recognize that which I have the power to change.
—Liv Ullmann

and of course I couldn't not include a Lord of the Rings quote:

All that we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
—J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

#357. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 7, 2009 10:21 PM

@254 Staci - I agree, the guy looks like Tom and his name tag says "Tom." Could Tom Friendly have joined Ben with the others as a result of the Purge. Great catch!

#358. Posted by: GatorDude at March 7, 2009 11:15 PM

Did anyone see Meet the Robinsons? GOOD MOVIE. Kinda has to do with time looping/course correction. From a LOST. perspective, it seems like it contradicts itself and I just get really confused but yeah.

It really is a good movie though. I highly recommend it. =]

#359. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 7, 2009 11:16 PM

@355. Posted by: ealgumby

Dude - It's like you graded my postings, based on your own thesis, and then flunked me because I didn't get it!

You wrote:
"I think the link you ref misses the fundamental point of Nietzsche’s argument, and you reinforce that misconception with your final comment … no!"

At no point, was I at all trying to prove/disprove N’s writings on the Eternal Recurrence. I simply introduced the concept on a basic level, with the hope of hearing what other people thought.

The link I used pointed to a discussion on the subject and how it could relate to Lost. I liked it, because it also brought forth the Egyptian connection. It is not meant to be a hard-core analysis of N's take on ER.

It is for good reason that N is the most misquoted and misunderstood philosopher - ever. Discussing the validity of the VARIOUS interpretations of N's ER, IMHO, is pointless - especially in this forum!

You wrote:
"If this philosophy has any bearing at all on Lost, I think it will be the exact opposite of what you have proposed"

I mentioned Faraday/Charlotte, but I didn't really elaborate my thoughts on it, mostly because I wanted to hear what others thought. All I mentioned was that this was what likely triggered my thoughts of ER. I didn't really propose anything!

Should anyone be interested in learning more about N's take on ER, google it! I'd be careful on what is drawn from "Will to Power", as this is a collection of N's writings that were a work in progress that he did not complete. N's sister, who was a huge anti-semite, helped compile it, and really distorted his philosophy.

"There are no facts, only interpretations." - Nietzsche

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

#360. Posted by: shikotee at March 7, 2009 11:57 PM

→ 293. Posted by: Cecil Rose "One of the Darlton podcasts confirnmed that Mikhail is now really, most sincerely dead."

:(

→ 293. Posted by: Cecil Rose "No, that was the bowl of petunias."

When they reveal the statue it's gonna be Arthur Dent, looking unappealing in his nightgown, using his ankhs to kill the same being over and over again as chickens or bats or groundhogs, all the while saying "JWTB" and "Miles was the baby" and Richard's the god Ra and the statue is/isn/t anubis or Wiley Coyote while smirking like Juliet.

I know, I've gone zarko. Brain the size of a planet... and I'm stuck here reading 350+ posts.

→ 304. Posted by: berkyo "Is this Freckles form Spoiler? Hello anyway."

Hello back, berkyo, but I'm not that Freckles. Just another girl with freckles.

#361. Posted by: freckles at March 7, 2009 11:58 PM

And this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side.

#362. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 8, 2009 12:29 AM

@ 347 ilovebenjaminlinusxx asked:

>So why did Ms. Hawking say that the ISLAND was skipping through time, but then when we actually see the island, it appears that the (select few) PEOPLE are skipping through time?

Did she say that? I thought she said the island moves though space, and she can predict the time at which it will be at a certain point.

#363. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 8, 2009 12:35 AM

one thing that was said was that amy "came along" and found paul, but if u look u can see a blanket, thus meaning that they were probably having a picnic. also, a note and/or theory of why richard alpert never ages, he was on the black rock when it was wrecked, and because of the islands healing powers, and the fact that he has been there so long(he was a young cabin boy when he crashed) that he has grown immune to aging, among other things AKA the time travel stuff. also i believe that saywer will get juliet pregnant and they will have a side plot where they will try to hide it so that nobody knows, and she will eventually have to(successfully so that she can live) instruct someone while she is giving birth on how to get the baby out without killing her. also, what happens when if they last long enough to see their future selves come to the island, or will something happen to make it so that doesnt happen. till next episode.

oh and if u dont like my ideas and/or theories, dont complain.

oh, and if u have something to prove any of my stuff wrong please email me at

ryanburnette@ymail.com

#364. Posted by: chinese chicken at March 8, 2009 1:42 AM

Baby= Desmond!

#365. Posted by: Roy at March 8, 2009 9:40 AM

@162, Jiggy: "It is also quite possible that RA + 815ers are on the opposing side of Whidmore + Locke in this war."

If that were so, wouldn't Widmore have tried to prevent Locke from bringing the O6 back to the Island?


***

@166, Sillygirl0630: "Also, Sayid, Sun and Hurley....They weren't on "the list"...will they ultimatly survive any purge? They must, in order to have boarded flight 815 in the first (last) place."


Why is that? They end up in Dharma times after the 815 crash, so them being on 815 allows us no conclusions about whether or not they survive Dharma times.


****

This week's Lost Entangled episode on the ABC website seemed to somewhat confirm that the little redhead girl this episode is Charlotte. If that's true then I'm confused. Either Ben lied about her year of birth, but then, why wouldn't she have reacted to that? Or the Losties think they are in '77, but actually are in '80 or so. Or Charlotte has been time travelling as a kid. Or it's an error or inconsistency on the part of the writers.

***

@175, shikotee: "Further speculation - Who knows how much power/influence the Degroots had over things. They may have been the brains behind things objectives, but in the real world, the financeers hold the power. Forgetting my Lost mythology, but was not Hanso the $$ behind Dharma?"

From Lostpedia: "According to various orientation films, the Initiative was founded in 1970 by Gerald and Karen DeGroot, two doctoral candidates at the University of Michigan. It was financially backed by Danish industrialist and munitions magnate Alvar Hanso and his Hanso Foundation."

And furthermore: "There is also strong evidence to suggest that a conversation during a Sun flashback in "D.O.C." also mentioned the Foundation. Her father Mr. Paik discusses an issue with an employee as she comes to his office to see him. This was the only piece of Korean during the episode not subtitled. Translations suggest that Paik was actually discussing forged documents required to ship Paik Motors equipment ordered by the Hanso Foundation. The men speaking with Mr. Paik seem to have had trouble securing the necessary shipping papers, causing Mr. Paik to become agitated, and warn that the Hanso Foundation will be very angry (or possibly that he will be angry if the issue is not swiftly resolved) [1].
Lastly, in Juliet's first flashback in "The Other Woman", a "Certificate of Recognition" seen in the background in Harper Stanhope's house features the distinct logo of the Hanso Foundation.[2]"

Some more from Lostpedia, from the ARG: "In 1881, a company called New World Sea Traders owned the Black Rock. The owner of New World Sea Traders, Magnus Hanso, may have been captaining this slaveship when it vanished in 1881. After the Black Rock disappeared, New World Sea Traders was sold to a company called the East Ocean Trade Group. In the 1950s the East Ocean Trade Group was taken over by the Hanso Group, who renamed the company Allied Copenhagen Marine Merchants. (Rachel Blake Copenhagen 02)"

And finally from Lostpedia, from the book "Bad Twin": "Also in chapter six, it is mentioned that googling Widmore Corporation pulls up "references to joint ventures with something called the Hanso Foundation..." In the last chapter, the Widmore Corporation board has Mittelwerk listed as a member from the Hanso Group."


***

@177, UsetheSchwartz: "Ok, my guess about what ultimately is going on..The events on the Island always happen, just who is there when it happens changes..
The record idea got me thinking: Play that Funky music is always the same regardless if song by Wild Cherry or Alvin and the Chipmunks..
Even though people have already lived out their past, now in their present knowing things from the past doesnt change anything for them in the future..Does that make sense."

To be honest, to me, no. But then, that might just be another clue to it being true. To use your own analogy, the same song performed by different artists can end up being very different. If you want to hear this point rather poignantly made, listen to Laibach's version of Life is Life.: tinyurl.com/bg64wf
tinyurl.com/66dwar
tinyurl.com/69wwcs

But all artistic considerations aside, from a physical point of view I would say it makes even less sense to suppose that a whole group of people can be replaced by another group with that leading to any other changes whatsoever in the future.

***

@196, Jo: "- Various dead people walking around: Christian and newly dead Locke, Ben's mother when he was a kid and Locke's father when he was brought to the island right after dying in a car crash."

Did Locke's father die in a car crash? I thought we never found out how he came to the Island?

@198, Sue: "I am not sure the fact that the pregnant women of Dharma usually left the island to have their babies means anything. That could have just been because there wasn't anyone really qualified to deliver the baby."

The whole idea of shipping highly pregnant women off-island in a submarine just a week or so before their baby is supposed to be born makes less and less sense to me the more I think about it. Aren't pregnant women usually advised not to take long trips in the last month or so of their pregnancy. Especially no flights. I'm not savvy enought medically to be sure if it's just a matter of preventing that an early birth happens on the plane (which would make enough sense in itself already) or if there are also some medical reasons. Perhaps the pressure differences are not good. Whatever might be the case, in all these respects a submarine is similar to a plane: pressure differences, no place to go if the delivery starts prematurely. It would make much more sense to either take the women off island much earlier or have someone (preferably more people) come to the island to deliver the babies (unless the on-island dying of the babies is already going on of course).

***

Pfff.... only @203 right now. It's a long, but interesting, read. Perhaps it's a good thing after all we have two weeks until the next episode. :)

#366. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 8, 2009 11:12 AM

@361. Posted by: freckles
@362. Posted by: Cecil Rose

"I got very bored and depressed, so I went and plugged myself into it's external computer feed. I talked to the computer at great length, and explained my view of the universe to it... "

Man - It's been too long! Gonna have to dig up my copy and enjoy!


@366. Posted by: Plain Simple

Thanks for the mythology clarification!
Lostpedia - Gotta get back into reading up on things there. Lots of good stuff.

Man - memory is a fickle b&#@%!

Forgot that Horace originally wore a Dharma outfit marked "Mathematician".

And LoL - the other who Juliet was doing the horizontal tango with was "Goodwin Stanhope". I erroneously assumed Goodwin was his last name!

New Theory - Goodwin was the baby, and he changed his last name because he didn't want to be known as "Goodwin Goodspeed"?

#367. Posted by: shikotee at March 8, 2009 12:13 PM

Re: Nietzsche's eternal recurrence...

Take it out of the realm of philosophical theory and it's a natural fact...we do the same things over and over again. There is nothing new in the area of human behavior. We want, love, hate, drink, eat, boink, and procreate.
So obviously, we repeat our actions as individuals and as a species. It can be argued that we are "stuck" in the cycle for as long we continue our lives clinging to the past and future of our pain and desires.

We are freed from the perception of repetition when we realize that we can only be in the immediate now and that frees us because there is no room in the immediate now for repetition. We can only "be" in the immediate now.
And the immediate now becomes the only eternity.

So the only way to escape the perception of recurrence is to acquiesce and abide in the eternity within the now. When we do that our "reality" changes because our perception changes.

A great mystery abides in the eternal now. It tickles and makes me laugh.

When there is only this very moment, reincarnation of beings and the cosmos is moot.

With regard to what has happened, is happening, will happen, the Tralfamidorians say it best, "So it goes".


#368. Posted by: undaunted at March 8, 2009 12:41 PM

@ jiggy - 162
"Ultimately, Jack will decide the future of the world."

If this is true, he'll probably get an asthma attack in the process.

#369. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 8, 2009 1:51 PM

I like the whole Ra and Ma theory thing.

Ya'll are some pretty smart cookies!

#370. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 8, 2009 1:54 PM

Sorry, can't find the original post anymore, but someone suggested that the rope in the ground, caused by Sawyer, somewhere (way) in the past, could have caused someone else to discover the FDW in their time. That would be awesome!

But doesn't that contradict the rules of not being able to change the past?

(discussion between self ensues)

If it was Locke himself who teased RA into looking him up at birth, while time travelling, he doesn't change anything that has happened. He becomes the cause of it. Which doesn't mean that he was meant to do it either. The life he has lead, has already been influenced by what he's doing now, while time skipping to the past. There is only one time line, there can be no second. So there never was a scenario where John Locke had nothing to do with the Island. The chicken/egg issue doesn't apply.

But the way we are told the story, the road that f.i. Locke follows, from birth up to time skipping interaction with Alpert, THAT John locke has lead that life because of what he told RA before his own birth. THAT John Locke has not time travelled yet.

Ofcourse he has. It happened in the 50's. John and us viewers didn't know about it beforehand, but it did already happen. If it didn't, then we wouldn't be here.

Ah! But if they wouldn't be there, it wouldn't have happened. That's still not a logical answer.

*# it, I give up. Can anyone else pleas convince this guy?

Anywayyyy, one more thing. I hope the love oxyhectypentrix get's resolved swiftly, and without too many teary eyed scenes.

#371. Posted by: Vingertje at March 8, 2009 2:00 PM

Why pre-purge RA that DI folks know is the one we all know with blue shirt but, years later when he approaches Benjamin, is in character with the costume and hippie look?
Maybe he didn’t want people to realize he’s not aging but why? I mean, isn’t he just showing himself to Ben?

#372. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 8, 2009 2:43 PM

@366 Plain Simple asked:

>>@196, Jo: "- Various dead people walking around: Christian and newly dead Locke, Ben's mother when he was a kid and Locke's father when he was brought to the island right after dying in a car crash."

>Did Locke's father die in a car crash? I thought we never found out how he came to the Island?


Locke's father said he was driving down the freeway in Tallahassee and the next thing he knew he was on the island in captivity, so he figured he was dead and this was Hell.

#373. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 8, 2009 3:09 PM

sooooo... my newish thoughts/comments:
how has sawyer managed to not impregnate (and thereby kill) juliet in three years time? does the island have an infinite supply of condoms? i suppose condoms could be provided via darma supply drop...


secondly, in response to those who wonder why on earth the survivors would remain on the island if they could leave on the sub:
well, my view is that they don't want to leave because if they do, they lose all hope of returning to their own time period and to their own lives. Jin especially would want to stay to eventually find some way to return to sun and the baby. If they stay and john locke returns, then maybe he'll know some way to return them to the future. if they leave the island, they've totally resigned themselves to being stuck permanently in the seventies and estranged from their old life.

ok, that's it for the moment

#374. Posted by: toni at March 8, 2009 3:10 PM

@372. Posted by: PreacherOnun
re: hippie look Richard

The non-aging Richard is still a great mystery - looking forward to when they reveal more about this.

Is it not possible that the Richard that young Ben meets is a different Richard than the clean cut one that we know so well? Perhaps this Richard was from the past, where the FDW was also used, thus causing time skips/jumps? By his clothing, many of us speculated that he may have part of the Black Rock crew.

#375. Posted by: shikotee at March 8, 2009 3:26 PM

oh, one more thing i forgot to mention in my last post:

what do you think of the possibility that john locke is an apparation in the same way that christian shepard is apparently an apparation?

#376. Posted by: Toni at March 8, 2009 3:42 PM

ok, one more comment. so remember how a couple weeks ago widmore told john he needed to go back to the island cuz there's gonna be a war and if he doesn't go, then the wrong side is going to win? could widmore have known that the island is stuck in 1977 and that the war between the hostiles and darma hasn't happened yet? and maybe john plays some important part in the war/purge...

#377. Posted by: toni at March 8, 2009 3:52 PM

ha, i'm totally just talking to myself out here.
but i just found out that my last post makes no sense since the purge doesn't happen until 1992. oh well.

#378. Posted by: toni at March 8, 2009 4:10 PM

I can't imagine Alpert needing Paul's body as evidence for his people. Surely, his word has enough authority?

So he either wants a new vessel for one of his ghost people, or he wants to eat it with some fava beans and a bottle of Chianti.

#379. Posted by: Hans de Vries at March 8, 2009 5:03 PM

@246-Clementine

Ben most definitely wants to change something that happened: his daughter Alex's death. Remember how shocked he was when it happened? Remember what Ben says as he stares out the window?

Later on, in a bedside meeting with Widmore, he says the same thing....

"YOU CHANGED THE RULES!"

It looks to me that Ben is obsessed with changing "the rules" himself, as many as he can, in order to get to a point where he can return physically to that moment when Alex is on her knees, begging Ben to help her, and the soldier-dude shoots her in the head and kills her.

Ben is driven to change that moment when his daughter dies any way he can. I think he pushes/kills Locke and each of the Oceanic 6 to "change the rules", whatever they are, so that he can observe the results and use even a little tiny change that happens to achieve that end.

#380. Posted by: stontilam at March 8, 2009 6:46 PM

just a wild thought
the island is Atlantis

#381. Posted by: newguy at March 8, 2009 9:53 PM

seeing the complete version of the statue has my brain working overtime, we have seen the foot of this statue, we have also seen the complete statue from behind, i think there will be another twist to this, maybe next season we will get to see it from the front, maybe it has eye-liner on, .... who knows??

#382. Posted by: san at March 8, 2009 10:00 PM

@382. Posted by: san

Perhaps this is why we didn't see the front of the statue:

http://tinyurl.com/2x5g3z

#383. Posted by: shikotee at March 8, 2009 10:47 PM

@-383 shikotee
thanx im gonna check it out

#384. Posted by: san at March 8, 2009 10:56 PM

If anyone is interested in a comical, not so serious synopsis of this episode (with lots of pics), check out:

http://tinyurl.com/akyjbl

#385. Posted by: shikotee at March 8, 2009 11:10 PM

@ 369. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: Seriously, ad hominem attacks on Matthew Fox's breathing got old last season.

#386. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 9, 2009 12:03 AM

@366, my own post: "But all artistic considerations aside, from a physical point of view I would say it makes even less sense to suppose that a whole group of people can be replaced by another group with that leading to any other changes whatsoever in the future."

I meant "without that leading to any other changes" of course.

#387. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 9, 2009 12:19 AM

→ 376. Posted by: Toni
Re:what do you think of the possibility that john locke is an apparation in the same way that christian shepard is apparently an apparation?
- - - -
When old man Shephard starts woofing down "the best mangoes he has ever tasted" - I might start to agree.

#388. Posted by: DocH at March 9, 2009 9:14 AM

@311 shikotee
Oops forgot to mention Dr. Who!

@336 shikotee
No Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or Tooth Fairy?
I'm assuming the "e" in your spelling of Santa Claus is evidence of a time loop parallel universe where these three individuals do not exist. In the universe I live in, there most certainly is a Santa, an Easter Bunny, and a Tooth Fairy!
(come on--don't ruin it for the young-uns like IluvBxxx!)

#389. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 9, 2009 10:18 AM

@85 shikotee sez:

>If anyone is interested in a comical, not so serious synopsis of this episode (with lots of pics), check out:

>http://tinyurl.com/akyjbl

I think he reads mac. He mentions a "love rhombus".

#390. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 9, 2009 10:31 AM

@389 Crispy Seaplanes said to @336 shikotee:

No Santa Clause...?
I'm assuming the "e" in your spelling of Santa Claus is evidence of a time loop parallel universe where these three individuals do not exist.

Nah, Shik means there's not really any Tim Allen movies. Complete fig-newtons of our imagination, as it were.

#391. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 9, 2009 10:36 AM

@383/shikotee: "@382. Posted by: san

Perhaps this is why we didn't see the front of the statue:

http://tinyurl.com/2x5g3z"

... toting a couple more ankhs up front, no doubt ... ;)

#392. Posted by: ealgumby at March 9, 2009 11:06 AM

@391 Cecli Rose: "Nah, Shik means there's not really any Tim Allen movies. Complete fig-newtons of our imagination, as it were."

Hey, didn't Elizabeth Mitchell, aka Juliet Burke, play the wife of Santa Claus in at least one those movies? See -- even in real life, you don't have to look very hard to see how things are interconnected, even if only in the slightest way...

#393. Posted by: Stocky at March 9, 2009 11:08 AM

Here's an interesting thought.

What if they brought Juliet to the island to solve the pregnancy issues because they knew that back in 1977-78, Sawyer got Juliet pregnant and she has complications. She was brought to the island to save her own life.

#394. Posted by: Paulo at March 9, 2009 12:26 PM

Baby Goodspeed is Carl...Alex's boyfriend

#395. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 9, 2009 12:50 PM

The posts about the Santa Clause got me thinking of some deja vu.
Found some old references in the comments from "Live together…Die Alone" that were already positing theories about the four toed statue being Anubis or Egypt related and also to some wacky theory that the island was the North Pole.

Check these out:

The four-toed foot seen by Jin, Sun, and Sayid is probably that of Anubis. In Egyptian history, Anubis ruled the underworld. ?????
→ 91. Posted by: maxlife at May 25, 2006 6:53 PM

A few things I noticed:
1. When we cut to the two Portuguese guys, there's a blizzard going on outside their window. I immediately thought "North Pole", then remembered Desmond's line about being "in a snowglobe".
→ 92. Posted by: Marcie at May 25, 2006 7:10 PM

The HO HO HO theory is awesome. This episode of Lost was brought to you today by the letters H and O. North/South Pole makes sense for the fact that there is a magnetic abnomally. Polar Bears. Echo's stick saying look North, Penny's crew being in an artic region, Desmonds reference to a snow globe.
→ 294. Posted by: callaway76 at February 7, 2008 4:32 PM

Hmmmm now with the Santa Clause reference and the point that Elizabeth Mitchell played Mrs. Claus maybe its time to resurrect the North Pole theory...

#396. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 9, 2009 1:14 PM

@→ 385. Posted by: shikotee at March 8, 2009 11:10 PM
If anyone is interested in a comical, not so serious synopsis of this episode (with lots of pics), check out:

http://tinyurl.com/akyjbl
endquote

Those are hilarious. Had to read all of season 5 and started on the older seasons.
Now I'm sure to be WAY behind hear.

#397. Posted by: mtncbn at March 9, 2009 2:41 PM

@390 Cecil
Also noticed the "love rhombus" on the other site.

DAESTGATP?
Did Anyone Else See The Gun At The Picnic?
Someone let me know if I'm seeing things. It appears to be near Pauls body, so presume he was brandishing it. Wish forensics had checked to see if it was fired.

#398. Posted by: mtncbn at March 9, 2009 2:57 PM

398. Posted by: mtncbn

I definitely noticed this as well upon my second viewing and forgot to post on it. When we first see Amy being roughed up by two others, one of the men picks up a gun from beside Paul's body. Definitely more to that story...

#399. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 9, 2009 3:01 PM

» 396. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes referring to post 92. by: Marcie at May 25, 2006 7:10 PM

I am Portuguese and always hated those 2 guys, Henrique and Matias.

They aren’t Portuguese. They aren’t Brazilian either. They’re supposed to be Brazilian but they speak a “Brazilian” Portuguese with such a poor accent that makes me sick. Both times! In the Arctic scene and when the Searcher finds the O6 + Des + Lapidus on the raft. They could improve a bit, but no...
Couldn’t TPTB get two minor Brazilian actors to do it? They got star Rodrigo Santoro, didn’t they? In spite of Lost fans buried him alive, he’s a great Brazilian actor, well known and beloved by both Portuguese and Brazilian viewers.

#400. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 9, 2009 3:39 PM

@397 mtncbn said:

>Those are hilarious. Had to read all of season 5 and started on the older seasons.
>Now I'm sure to be WAY behind hear.

Amen and ditto, brotha!

#401. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 9, 2009 4:56 PM

→ 392. ealgumby re @383/shikotee: "@382. Posted by: san

>Perhaps this is why we didn't see the front of the >statue:
>http://tinyurl.com/2x5g3z"
>... toting a couple more ankhs up front, no doubt >... ;)

Oh, is that what they're called? ; >

#402. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 9, 2009 6:36 PM

I went to that site that you guys recommended and really enjoyed it. I laughed my head off! tears even,Go read season one recap.

#403. Posted by: berkyo at March 9, 2009 8:00 PM

***** NEW CRAZY THEORY ALERT *****

Horace Goodspeed is ... ... Jacob!

Somehow, during the incident, our fearless Darma leader was dislodged from time AND space.
That’s why he lives in his own love shack
That’s why he bleeds from the nose in Locke’s dream
That’s why he needs Locke’s help
That’s why he blows up trees… because he uses the ashes around the cabin to transform into Smokey! Old habits tend to last…

#404. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 9, 2009 8:16 PM

→ 403. Posted by: berkyo
"I went to that site that you guys recommended and really enjoyed it. I laughed my head off! tears even,Go read season one recap."

oh dear, my 10 yr old (who has a better grasp of LOST than most adults I know) and I both have tears of laughter, thank you!

#405. Posted by: LostinVT at March 9, 2009 8:25 PM

@399 - Thanks Crispy Seaplanes, glad to have confirmation that I hadn't LOST it!

#406. Posted by: mtncbn at March 9, 2009 9:15 PM

Have to Ditto the positive comments on the Ack Attack LOST reviews. Thanks for recommending it. The girl who writes these is hilarious! Of course, Mac will always be #1 in my book!

#407. Posted by: Lost in ca at March 9, 2009 11:31 PM

@368. Posted by: undaunted
re: eternal recurrence

I like the take on "Amor Fati", as a love of the immediate moment.

And you've reminded me that I really need to read "Slaughterhouse-Five"!

Damn you internet! I spend so much time reading so many different things, that books have become a non factor in my life!!!!

@355. Posted by: ealgumby
re: Daniel/Charlotte

If anything, prior to this moment, hasn't Daniel been the pushing the idea of accepting the inevitable cycle? He knows how it works, but her death has caused him great emotional turmoil, and he is ever so painfully confused.

When we first met Daniel, we saw him in the same state of emotional distress (whilst with a caretaker, and seeing fake 815 crash on TV) - I wonder if he had a Desmond travel moment after Charlotte died that made him experience that moment?

Hmmmmmm...

Thinking of how the concept of a "constant" fits into all this...

#408. Posted by: shikotee at March 10, 2009 7:30 AM

@389. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
re: Doctor Who

All is forgiven. I guess I can recall the squadron of both Daleks and Cybermen that I sent to hunt you down...

re: Santa Clause

Damn you Tim Allen!
Damn you!!!!!


@390. Posted by: Cecil Rose
re: "I think he reads mac. He mentions a "love rhombus"."

Boy are you ever wrong!
About the "he", that is.... ;)

http://tinyurl.com/cjrxf9


@392. Posted by: ealgumby
@402. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought
re: "couple more ankhs up front"

You know what they say:
The bigger the four toed foot, the bigger the....

Perhaps it is the weight of this anatomical addition that eventually leads to the crumbling?

On a side note - I've always found it fascinating just how openly "dirty" things were in the classic age of Rome and Greece. You can easily compare some of the surviving "Comedies" with the humour found in sitcoms.

The Roman poet Ovid (43 BC – AD 17), who is best known for his take on Roman mythology via his "Metamorphases", also wrote an interesting poem about the need for viagra:

http://tinyurl.com/dhxoj9


@397. Posted by: mtncbn
@401. Posted by: Cecil Rose
@403. Posted by: berkyo
@405. Posted by: LostinVT
@407. Posted by: Lost in ca
re: "Ack Attack"

Glad people are enjoying it!
It totally cracked me up too!
I'm saving the old reviews, for times when I am grumpy, and need some good laughs!

#409. Posted by: shikotee at March 10, 2009 8:21 AM

@ shikotee
i checked out the link you gave me re-front view of the statue, you make a good point, we all know how these ancient civilizations felt about anatomical correctness, if this is indeed the case, maybe the producers of the show could carve some huge stone underpants for said statue.

#410. Posted by: san at March 10, 2009 8:52 AM

Been skimming through this since I haven't been on since Thursday, but my wife believes that the name LaFleur was on the body of one of the deceased in that pit of people that Ben wiped out. I didn't see any reference, but if she was right, I figure you guys would be all over it. If it's true, does that mean Sawyer will die?

#411. Posted by: Q at March 10, 2009 11:20 AM

I really like the egyptian theories that are evolving. I looked up Anubis, and his role is to protect souls as they journey to the underworld. The patron of LOST souls.

That got me to thinking that the title of the show means more than just LOST on a desert island.... it's actually their souls that are LOST.

#412. Posted by: rdt at March 10, 2009 11:36 AM

@409 shikitee corrected:

>>@390. Posted by: Cecil Rose
re: "I think he reads mac. He mentions a "love rhombus"."

>Boy are you ever wrong!
About the "he", that is.... ;)

>http://tinyurl.com/cjrxf9

I sit corrected. Thanks. And she explains the f&^%&g^gi&y( there, too.

#413. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 10, 2009 11:54 AM

@403 berkyo said:

>I went to that site that you guys recommended and really enjoyed it. I laughed my head off! tears even,Go read season one recap.

Where did you find season 1?

#414. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 10, 2009 12:34 PM

If the statue's ears are not as long as those of a jackal, but more like a dog... could this be a statue of Vincent?

#415. Posted by: afraal at March 10, 2009 12:40 PM


→ 414. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Where did you find season 1?

Not sure how normal folk would, but I searched for 'season 1' in the search box, and found it about half way down the page :-)

#416. Posted by: LostinVT at March 10, 2009 12:44 PM

Hi Everyone great review Mac!

Great to see the poolroom/prison back this season.

To all of those that have speculated about Juliet knowing more then she has ever let on. Of course she is full of knowledge. The head honcho had a major crush on her. Think about how he was trying to impress her and make her fall in love.

Juliet come down in my secret room ill show you where Smokey sleeps.

Juliet follow me to this abounded Dharma station and we can watch this guy punch a button every 108 minutes. It is the original reality TV show Island style.

Tis very easy to get information out of Men when they are in Love.


That's all I have for now must finish reading all the post only up to 200.

#417. Posted by: Dakota at March 10, 2009 12:48 PM

@414. Posted by: Cecil
Right at the end of each recap, or /www.theackattack.net/?tag=lost-recap

#418. Posted by: mtncbn at March 10, 2009 12:54 PM

On rewatching the ep:

Cindy's scarf lives! (ala Juliet the Mechanic's bandana)

RA wanted Locke's father's dead body. He SAID it was to show that Locke could/would kill him. And now he wants Paul's body. Is it some sacrificial thing?

The ack attack is very funny. But agree: Mac is da bomb. (JWTB but MIDB)

#419. Posted by: lovelost at March 10, 2009 2:21 PM

@ 360. Posted by: shikotee
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Nietzsche

Shikotee - I think you just saved my marriage…….


@ 395. Posted by: CC_Boston
Baby Goodspeed is Carl...Alex's boyfriend

That was my first thought too… Carl’s parents were never explained and his origin is unknown.

#420. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2009 2:45 PM

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but didn't Goodwin's wife once tell Juliet that Ben is infatuated with her because she looks exactly like someone he used to know. I think most people thought she might have been referring to Annie, but it may be possible that young Ben met current Juliet when he arrived on the island. It's going to be a long wait till the next episode.

#421. Posted by: Jabbawocky at March 10, 2009 3:14 PM

You know, I had the same impression... Can it really be? Gonna have to search for it in old eps...

#422. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 10, 2009 3:40 PM

@ 336. shikotee stipulated: "Lastly, there is no Santa Clause, no Easter Bunny, and no Tooth Fairy!"

really...


No Easter Bunny?


No... Easter... BUNNY????


NO EASTER BUNNY??????????

NoooOOOOOooOOOOOOOOOooooooOO!!!!!!

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

AAAAAAHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHhhhhhhHHHHHH!!!!


(Darn - there goes my nose bleed again.)

#423. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 10, 2009 3:50 PM

@ 347. ilovebenjaminlinusxx actually said about her beloved Ben:

"Can't anyone anticipate Sawyer saying (referring to Purge), "Captain bunny killer here got buddy buddy with Alpert's gang..."


Captain bunny killer - -> LOVE IT!!

I shall now always think of your Ben as the infamous Captain Bunny Killer.

Thank you... thank you my dear child for coming up with a perfect Sawyerism for Ben (for me anyway).

#424. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 10, 2009 4:00 PM

Ops! Now the complete version :)


@411.Posted by: Q

You know, I had the same impression... Can it really be? Gonna have to search for it in old eps...

Gone to Lost Archives!

#425. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 10, 2009 4:03 PM

411,Q...

Surprised & amused by his choice of name, didn't Juliet or someone ask Sawyer, "LeFleur?" I thought Sawyer explained it was an old New Orleans/Louisiana name.

#426. Posted by: undaunted at March 10, 2009 7:00 PM

First off, Mac's review has nothing to fear. The Ack is totally dif and There is no place like this for discussion.

Second, I am getting that Deja vu thing again......It must be the long posts have a tendency to repeat? Wierd.


Third. i just watched TMBTC as I wanted to know more about RA. I think RA is a living breathing human being and is a time jumper hence the age thingee. He's probably a Black Rocker as we all thought originally. The reason I have come to this conclusion is that at the purge, He and the Hostiles enter the compound with gas masks ON! and then RA CAREFULLY removes his. Ghosts and Egyptian gods don't need gas masks. ALso, Ben says he brought most of the others to the island himself. But Ben lies so we can't rely on that.

In the school room, Young Ben's classmate asks, "Is that what happened to the volcano on this island?" and the teacher says "yes". Then a loud rumble and shake and the alarm goes off and the hostiles appear. I wondered first time I saw the epi if it was the volcano, Now I wonder if it wasn't one of the flashes. I wonder if people viewing the flash - time jumpers appearing and disappearing - have any sensation or any environmental clues as tpo the flash.

I forgot to notice any name tags in the pit. Just the Dharma logo on their jumpsuits.

ANNNNNNDDDDDD Roger tells Ben, sorry I missed your birthday but it's the day you killed your mom. She was 7 months pregnant and you were early. I wonder if Roger was really the father? The fact that mom appears on the island might mean she is OF the island and could have been made pregnant by an other or Dharma guy. Hence the coincidence of Roger and Olivia being in the scene. and the look they give each other when she dies is quite speaking. Why else bring them to the island if it was a chance encounter. How come they kept in touch with miserable Roger?

#427. Posted by: berkyo at March 10, 2009 8:13 PM

→ 427. Posted by: berkyo

b'yo....some great points

---- Ghosts and Egyptian gods don't need gas masks.

Remembering that scene, it almost seemed like RA might have been faking it. How much can we "read into" this show???

#428. Posted by: IslandHopper at March 10, 2009 10:17 PM

House review's up, for anyone interested.

#429. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 11, 2009 1:15 AM

Somewhere in the attic of a charming bungalow in New Otherton there is a painting of Richard Alpert that shows him as a dessicated old man.

#430. Posted by: undaunted at March 11, 2009 8:16 AM

Depression abounds! Wednesday is here...but no new Lost tonight--AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Why Lord oh why?

#431. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 11, 2009 8:51 AM

Undaunted,

Is that a reference to Dorian Grey?

Or perhaps Grant Woods' Egyptian Gothic? Ol' shiny-pated Anubis in the front yard with a trident standing next to Ma'at looking all hot and tanned in her Shannon-tastic bikini and her hair pulled back in a tight bun...

#432. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 11, 2009 9:47 AM

@ 425 PreacherOnun

If you check the archives, let me know if you uncover anything. I still don't believe that it has yet to have been uncovered on here if it's true. I refuse to believe it since I'm a bigger fan of the show than her, but then again, she has a pretty solid memory.

#433. Posted by: Q at March 11, 2009 12:35 PM

→ 433. Posted by: Q at March 11, 2009 12:35 PM

I just watched S03E20 where Ben shoots Locke into that pit. during that scene, I did not notice any names on the clothes, just the Dharma logos.
I don't have the episode when Walt appears, so can't confirm the second showing of that pit.

#434. Posted by: Steve at March 11, 2009 1:04 PM

@434 Steve

Thanks for the looking Steve.

#435. Posted by: Q at March 11, 2009 1:07 PM

i watched it online last and i did not see a clear name anywhere. most of it was rotten when Locke looks for the map in Horace's pocket

#436. Posted by: berkyo at March 11, 2009 1:26 PM

if you have to bury people why leave the mass grave open?

And does anyone remember who listed all the things we can rule out? I want to keep that but I forget who posted it.

#437. Posted by: berkyo at March 11, 2009 1:55 PM

@437 berkyo asked:

>if you have to bury people why leave the mass grave open?

Better composting.

#438. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 11, 2009 4:30 PM

I've read the first 200 posts, so I could be repeating someone else here, but why is the statue holding 2 ankhs?

Also, I was rewatching and freeze framing the room 23 orientation video, that Karl was forced to watch. At the end of it, a message appears: ‘Think about your life’

During those few seconds, several small pictures are briefly seen, including one that I think could be the front of the statue. Here's a still, it's low quality though. Check it out on Youtube for a better picture.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8192/statuee.jpg


#439. Posted by: Nattesnee at March 11, 2009 5:38 PM

...why is the statue holding 2 ankhs?

439 Nattesnee

----

Ankhs me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.

#440. Posted by: anubis at March 11, 2009 5:58 PM

@433. Posted by: Q
@434. Posted by: Steve

Nada!
I also checked S04E11 - Cabin Fever and when Locke finds Horace’s rotten corpse we can’t see no other names, either.
But that’s good news, right?

#441. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 11, 2009 6:06 PM

@ berkyo - 437
"if you have to bury people why leave the mass grave open?"

Leaves space for more bodies.

Maybe Ben's planning on another purge?

#442. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 11, 2009 7:19 PM

@-ilovebenjaminlinusxx,
maybe they were waiting for mr. j.locke to join the party in the pit of doom

#443. Posted by: san at March 11, 2009 8:32 PM

→ 439. Posted by: Nattesnee

I always assumed that was a Buddha statue but maybe you are right,. it has that little pill box hat on it like the statue did.

Does Buddha stand? isn't that what they blew up in Afghanistan?

#444. Posted by: berkyo at March 11, 2009 9:23 PM

@122 Christina

> @72 Red...Neck...Man
>
>Yes! I noticed Miles' gray hair, too,
>and wondered about that...does anyone
>else have a theory about that?

I do! I do! If Miles is indeed Candle/Halliwax/Chang's son, then (grownup) Miles is living on the Island at the same time as (baby) Miles. Maybe it's unhealthy for two versions of a person to be inhabit the same time/space, uh, *space* for an extended period. None of our other time-stranded Losties have that problem--Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, and Farraday's baby-selves are oceans away. This *would* have been an issue for Charlotte too, but obviously not anymore.

#445. Posted by: marissa at March 11, 2009 11:47 PM

I always assumed that was a Buddha statue but maybe you are right,. it has that little pill box hat on it like the statue did.

Does Buddha stand? isn't that what they blew up in Afghanistan?

→ 444. Posted by: berkyo at March 11, 2009 9:23 PM

On second inspection, it's probably not it. It's probably the small Buddha figure, seen elsewhere in the same video. In any case, in the small picture, there's a space between the arm and the body. In the picture of the statue, the arms are tight against the body. So nevermind :)

#446. Posted by: Nattesnee at March 12, 2009 4:32 AM

444 Berkyo

The statue doesn't look like a Buddha.
The statue that was destroyed in Afghanistan was enormous, but other wise not at all similar to the statue on the island.

#447. Posted by: undaunted at March 12, 2009 8:10 AM

People have asked whether older Ben would recognize the losties that hooked up with the Dharma Initiative when he was a kid. What if the "list" that he gave to Ethan and Goodwin was a list of the people he crossed paths with in the 70's? I can't remember for sure who was on it.

#448. Posted by: DC at March 12, 2009 10:13 AM

“What happened, happened”.

That’s why they’re on “The List”.

They’re destined (or supposed to non-spiritual) to do all that they are doing in the 70’s. And before.

Jin was supposed to prevent Danielle to enter Smokey’s lair.
Sawyer was supposed to hold on to that rope so Black Rock’s crew could find it and built the well.
Sawyer and Juliet were supposed to save Amy so she could give birth.
Locke was supposed to give Richard the compass so he could give it back to Locke.
The bodies were not buried so Locke could easily find Horace’s map.
Daniel was supposed to warn little Charlotte so she could dig up polar bears in the Tunisian desert and go back to the island to… to… well, to die.
Daniel was supposed to ask Desmond to find his mother so Des could get to the reunion in time, so Ben could fulfill his promise, thus given a good excuse to Desmond’s return.
Daniel was supposed to advice the Others to bury Jughead with concrete at the Swan so Desmond could spend 3 years of his life pushing the damn button every 108 minutes.
The list goes on...

And the O6 were supposed to leave the Island so they could comeback to do what they’re destiny to do in the war that’s coming.

It’s the Circle of Life. The Big Wheal goes on and on and on, forever and ever. Again and again.

#449. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 12, 2009 3:47 PM

Silly, but I just had to share this quote I ran across today (with important capitalization added by me...;-)

“We are here on Earth to do good to others. What the Others are here for, I don't know.”

W.H Auden

#450. Posted by: Caelum at March 12, 2009 5:53 PM

In the enhanced version of last week's ep, it was revealed that Le Fleur was a name that Sawyer had used in his cons. That was news to me.

#451. Posted by: lovelost at March 12, 2009 7:57 PM

Back to the statue.....

Anyone here play the ARG game this summer?? It was to give us a chance to join the Dharma Initiative and they gave us a series of test and were we were put in groups and given jobs. I am a cinematographer BTW!

Anyway, The groups they put us in were named for the Greek gods and their friends.

Test 1 Moons Ganymede, Pandora 2 groups

Test 2 Cyclopes Brontes, Polyphemus, Steropes 3 groups

Test 3 Giants Antaeus, Enceladus, Otus, Tityos 4 groups

Test 4 Titans Atlas, Crius, Cronus, Helios, Oceanus 5 groups

Test 5 Protogenois Aether, Chaos, Chronus, Hemera, Nyx, Oranos 6 groups

Test 6 Olympians Apollo, Ares, Athena, Demeter, Hestia, Poseidon 6 groups

Test 7 Cygni Black Swan, White Swan

I was a white swan :) (meaning I did not cheat)and I can't remember the other groups I was in.

So Why Greek gods if the show seems to be geared to Egypt? I did not play the previous ARG's but they were closely related to the plot line. Could we looking to the wrong gods?

And Remember the Black Swan Theory? This was a clue at the comic con given by the Ruckus Guy. That could be Jughead (pardon me) and maybe the incident is the "totally unexpected event" Changing the path of time?

#452. Posted by: berkyo at March 12, 2009 8:00 PM

also
When you registered for the DWY game, The User Birthday default was set to 17 July 1979. What is the significance of this date?

did they jump to that time?

#453. Posted by: berkyo at March 12, 2009 8:03 PM

Did anyone else notice this? When Miles joins Sawyer in the Dharma van as they are going to investigate Horace's tree blowing-up episode, Sawyer asks if he brought his "zapper". I think he might be referring to the weapon Ben used in Tunisia, and has been the subject of much speculation. Maybe it's a special Dharma invention, and the security people had access to it.

#454. Posted by: Smokygirl at March 12, 2009 9:03 PM

Thursday night, March 12.

Just returned home this evening after 13 days our of country.

Just watched "LeFleur".

Just read 453 comments.

The word "could" must have been used over 1235 times.

Juliet still Hottest Chick on show.

Actually glad I didn't have to watch two new episodes tonight.

Eyes are bleeding.

Brain emitting smoke.

Mind wandering.


Gosh, it's good to be home.

#455. Posted by: davidrh at March 12, 2009 9:08 PM

@ berkyo - 452
"Anyone here play the ARG game this summer?? It was to give us a chance to join the Dharma Initiative and they gave us a series of test and were we were put in groups and given jobs. I am a cinematographer BTW!"

Yes, it said I was a COOK. =]

@ Smokygirl - 454
"Sawyer asks if he brought his "zapper". I think he might be referring to the weapon Ben used in Tunisia"

I think he was referring to those things that Pickett kept using on him when he and Kate were in cages and Jack was in the aquarium in the beginning of season 3.

#456. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 12, 2009 10:19 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHGHHHHHH!!!

is anyone else in serious withdrawl here???!! damn, i guess i should be able to come up with some new topic or a witty comment on a past one but damn, i'm just human!! daddy needs a new pair a shoes!!
shaky... itchy... gonna vomit... ohh god...!!

#457. Posted by: flegma at March 13, 2009 12:55 AM

@455. Posted by: davidrh

Huge laugh! Thanks
Good to know we share the same symptoms :)

#458. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 13, 2009 10:45 AM

@ berkyo - 452
>"Anyone here play the ARG game this summer?? It was to give us a chance to join the Dharma Initiative and they gave us a series of test and were we were put in groups and given jobs. I am a cinematographer BTW!"

Psychologist, here.

#459. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 13, 2009 11:31 AM

@457 flegma complained:

>AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHGHHHHHH!!!

>is anyone else in serious withdrawl here???!! damn, i guess i should be able to come up with some new topic or a witty comment on a past one but damn, i'm just human!! daddy needs a new pair a shoes!!
>shaky... itchy... gonna vomit... ohh god...!!

House last week.
Lost this week.
Survivor next week.

All my shows are in serious skipitis.

#460. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 13, 2009 11:33 AM

@452. Posted by: berkyo

There is only One True God.

The Almighty! The most High and Holy!
Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent.
The All and the Nothing. The Everlasting! The Immutable Engine! The Alpha and the Omega.

Me, baby ;)

#461. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 13, 2009 11:56 AM

@238, Mizzed: "1972-73: Somewhere in this time frame, Locke is approached by Mittelos Bioscience while in high school to attend their science camp.

Hmmm...factor: RA & the Others had not yet taken control of the Dharma facilities or the submarine, so either the Others also had off-shore facilities to compete with Dharma, or the Mittelos staging facility "just outside of Portland" was actually a Dharma facility- and Dharma was also trying to recruit Locke??"

Perhaps there's a connection between Mittelos and Thomas Mittelwerk? tinyurl.com/dxar4s This would connect Mittelos to Hanso and Dharma, which makes sense. Question then becomes, why did Dharma try to recruit Locke? Well, if Widmore is related to Dharma as well, and he found out about the time travelling properties of the Island, then he might have done some research looking for people called John Locke, that mysterious guy who walked into the Other's camp in 1954 and then vanished into thin air.

#462. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 13, 2009 12:05 PM

@239, Alex (not Rousseau): "I'm having a hard time with this one. Don't Desmond's actions affect the future in some way?"

Don't your actions? Don't mine? Don't everybody's?


@240, Clementine: "Now that you all have pointed me in that direction, I’m very suspicious of Amy. Mostly because she hooked up with Horace, when she could’ve made a play for Sawyer ;) A woman of questionable taste, to say the least."

Hey, don't dis the mathematician!

#463. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 13, 2009 12:26 PM

→ 461. Posted by: PreacherOnun

It's good to know a preacher ;)

but what about the god's with a small g?
I am suspicious of the statue because of his garb and the hat on his head. I thought of the OGR program and gods they used. Doing research now on alternate underworld (not Egyptian) gods.

#464. Posted by: berkyo at March 13, 2009 8:14 PM

@269, Scooby-Dude. Was Sawyer the camera man in the season opener.

I remember when I read that post back during the first week of the season I went and watched that scene again. I was pretty convinced at the time it was not Sawyer. Time will tell if I was right I guess.

@274, Paulo: "This makes sense. If living on the island stops the external "aging" process, I wonder if it stops the aging of wombs."

I don't think the Island stops the external aging process, or else Ben would still look like a ten or eleven year old boy.

#465. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 13, 2009 8:17 PM

Looong Post

okay. Here are two pictures of Hades, a Greek Underworld god.

What if TPTB are fooling us again. I can't see a WHOLE Ankh in the Lost statue's hand. I do see a part of a one and it could be just a disk. And one of the statues I have linked has a disk in his hand. And the other one has a hat like the statue. The Egyptian gods have large things on their heads.
The ears are a problem......Maybe they are not ears? Maybe it is the ends of a crown that comes part way around his head. The garb is a tunic like thing and reminds me more of Greek and Rome. And notice that both have Cerebus with them. The dog that guards the underworld. The disk could be a chain and Smokey could be on the end of it:)I think there is a connection here too. Maybe the statue is a mix of different myths.


http://www.springfield.k12.il.us/schools/southeast/pprojects/Group%202/%20text/nonni_/nonni/underworld/hades.html


http://www.legionxiiii.com/images/Kids/rome_hades.jpg
----------------------------------------
HAIDES (Aides, Aidoneus, or Hades) was the King of the Underworld, the god of death and the dead. He presided over funeral rites and defended the right of the dead to due burial.
[Burial?]
Haides was also the god of the hidden wealth of the earth, from the fertile soil with nourished the seed-grain, to the mined wealth of gold, silver and other metals.
[like what's buried in theOrchid?]
Hades was devoured by Kronos as soon as he was born, along with four of his siblings. Zeus later caused the Titan to disgorge them, and together they drove the Titan gods from heaven and locked them away in the pit of Tartaros.[Pit?] When the three victorious brothers
[could there be three brothers?]
then drew lots for the division of the cosmos, Hades received the third portion, the dark dismal realm of the underworld, as his domain.Hades desired a bride and petitioned his brother Zeus to grant him one of his daughters. The god offered him Persephone, the daughter of Demeter.
[Claire and her mother? Charlotte and mother?]
However, knowing that the goddess would resist the marriage, he assented to the forceful abduction of the girl. When Demeter learned of this, she was furious and caused a great dearth to fall upon the earth until her daughter was returned. Zeus was forced to concede lest mankind perish,
[have to save the world]
and the girl was fetched forth from the underworld. However, since she had tasted of the pomegranate seed, she was forced to return to him for a portion of each year.
[They will never be able to leave the island]

Haides was depicted as a dark-bearded, regal god. He was depicted as either Aidoneus, enthroned in the underworld, holding a bird-tipped sceptre,[Hurley Bird?] or as Plouton, the giver of wealth, pouring fertility from a cornucopia. The Romans named him Dis, or Pluto, the Latin form of his Greek title Plouton, "the Lord of Riches.

#466. Posted by: berkyo at March 13, 2009 8:48 PM

The ears could be the ends of a laurel wreath crown.

#467. Posted by: berkyo at March 13, 2009 8:54 PM

i dont think the statue question will be explained any time soon, i think it was thrown into the mix to give all of us something to drive us insane with theories & speculation, this week we have no new episode, i have time to do my crux ansata research

#468. Posted by: san at March 13, 2009 11:32 PM

@283, freckles: "I don't think it's likely that Horace=Smokey, but who knows? Or maybe Smokey saw Horace blow up a tree, thought it might be fun, and got hooked."

Lol!


***

@293, Cecil Rose: "@288 Plain Simple asked

>Was she [Juliet] thinking: "Not again"...

No, that was the bowl of petunias. [To revert o last week's theme.]"

Actually it was lovelost who asked this, but I still had a good laugh at your DNA reference! :)


****

@300, Alaïs_Longthought: "Ruth comments that the closest thing that Desmond had to a religious experience is when Celtic won the football championship in 1995, so it would appear that they were still dating in 1995."

Wikipedia ( tinyurl.com/dh8ovl ) shows that Celtic didn't win the championship in 1995 anyway. They won the Scottish Cup that year though, so perhaps that's what was meant. I don't remember this conversation. If they really did mean the championship then the closest years to 1995 in which Celtic did win it are 1988 and 1998. Does that free up more years in your theory?

#469. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 14, 2009 1:03 AM

@303, Berkyo: "Isn't there an ex-criminal who was converted by Jesus in the biblical stories and became one of his followers? Or am I making that up? Well, at least we have a fisher man amongst our Losties.
→ 253. Posted by: Plain Simple

You mean Barabas, the thief."

No, I don't think I do. He was never a follower of Jesus, was he?

@311:, shikotee: "@253. Posted by: Plain Simple
re: ex-criminal who was converted by Jesus

You are thinking of St. Paul, and his conversion on the road to Damascus (AD33). Prior to conversion, he was Saul, and he greatly persecuted the followers of Jesus. He experienced a vision of the resurrected Jesus after which he was temporarily blinded. Unlike Jesus' apostles in Jerusalem, Paul had not known Jesus in person.

http://tinyurl.com/a55tz"

I probably was thinking of him, although ex-criminal doesn't completely fit, does it?

#470. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 14, 2009 1:13 AM

@466/berkyo:

"Here are two pictures of Hades, a Greek Underworld god.

What if TPTB are fooling us again. I can't see a WHOLE Ankh in the Lost statue's hand."

We know there is at least some Egyptian connection, due to Dharma's use of hieroglyphics in the Swan, and the hieroglyphics seen in the Orchid FDW chamber, on the Temple, in the Summoning Smokey/Cerebus room, etc.

The Romans reengineered many of the Greek gods and myths, just as the Greeks built upon the gods and myths of even older civilizations such as the Babylonians and Egyptians, who in turn reimagined the gods and myths of the earliest human civilizations in Mesopotamia and Sumer.

I've made the point before that TPTB seem to channel some of Joseph Campbell's theories- the gods are fundamentally the same across the ancient civilizations, only the names and faces change to suit the times of the people who worship them.

#471. Posted by: Mizzed at March 14, 2009 1:43 AM

@314, Christine Loves Lost: "@ → 204. Posted by: Lost in ca

“…why did everybody stay on the island for those three years.…”

That is exactly what I have been wanting to post, however I had 300+ posts to read first… I wonder the same thing.

I mean obviously if they are now in 1974-1977 they really don’t have anything to “back” to off island. But is that really any reason to stay? I can see that maybe at first they were waiting for Lock’s return. But who would wait 3 years? After all the FOOMs had stopped FOOMING after Locke turned the wheel (clearly bringing the O6 back to the island had nothing to do with ending the FOOMS) so I could see waiting a few weeks maybe even a month or two, but three years? What are they waiting for at this point?"

I guess that, apart from possibly personal reasons to stay, one major reason is that the Island offers at least the hope that they will find another way to travel back/forward to 2005. Leaving the Island is pretty much a guarantee that you have to live out the rest of your life starting in the seventies.


****


@318, san: "we had a show in the uk before season 5 began, it featured some idiot english comedian chatting to the cast of lost on-set, sawyer,jin & a few other actors, all wearing dharma clothes, im glad i can type about it in here now, i wasnt sure if you guys seen this spoil show, i wont watch it again, anyway-fantastic episode, it has to be at least 3 views to get all of it"

Which comedian/show was that on?

*****

@319, IslandHopper: "→ 306. Posted by: David
Did anyone notice that RA asked Sawyer on the park bench "What" are you, not "Who" are you?

Awesome David. I caught it, but it didn't imprint."

Wasn't that after he concluded that "you are not Dharma"? The question "what are you" sounds quite natural as a follow up.


*******

@330: "But why would they do that?"

All just speculation and guesses, but:

-Because the parts with Christian were not important for what they wanted to show?

-To avoid having to credit and pay an extra actor?

But then again, it might have meaning after all.

***


@331, Mizzed: The repeating theories that keep popping up and don't seem to go anywhere, least of all away :), can get a bit annoying at points. It's not like this blog is lacking in posts. :) Otoh, it's all in good fun here, so if people want to post the same old theory for the umpteenth time and act all enthusiastic and "o, look what I found out", then hey, why not? That said, you compiled a great list of "don'ts"!

#472. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 14, 2009 3:24 AM

471. Posted by: Mizzed
Joseph Campbell's theories- the gods are fundamentally the same across the ancient civilizations, only the names and faces change to suit the times of the people who worship them.

yes, you are right and maybe the island is the basis for all those gods a long time ago. or I am wrong and egypt is the right religion and etc.

I have always liked the idea of primitive man puzzled by something and a bit bored, thinks up a reason- an explanation for it. And he tells 2 friends and they tell two friends and they tell two friends....until one of them, a bit smarter, saw the awesome power in this if he could convince others that he was the link between the cause and the effect. A priest was born.

444444444444444444444444444444444444444
→ 472. Posted by: Plain Simple

why not leave the island? I Think at this point we don't know and assume Jules will leave on the next boat. Prob Miles and Jin too but the rest have personal reasons to stay. Faraday for Charlotte and Sawyer because he has nothing to return to. The island has brought out the best in him and he will wait for Locke and look for the other losties that were left. We know they don't leave - so something happens in the next two weeks to keep them there. Maybe as some have suggested, The Others capture the other losties - Bernard and Rose and any one else, and they all feel they need to stay to help them get away, need to ransom them by being moles. Or somehow find the tape that Chang sends to the future to ask for help. Maybe Faraday actually tells them what he knows about the future from the 70's on and they decide to help try to change their owns lives? maybe that's why Chang sends the tape and knows about his own death.
Maybe Desmond shows up. Maybe....all right, I'm done.

And I really don't mind the repetitive theories. Everyone adds a little something and if they are new, they'll read on and become a fan.

#473. Posted by: berkyo at March 14, 2009 9:10 AM

re: Horace the Leader!!!

So - I briefly watched the first 20 minutes or so of the captioned rebroadcast of this episode on Wed.

I'm inclined to suspect that the person who writes the captions read my postings regarding Horace the Dharma island manager. For good measure, twice was it mentioned that Horace is the island leader.

When I saw it the first time, I was like "Awwwwwww!". 10 minutes or so later, when it was specifically mentioned again, it almost seemed insulting. Do they think the viewers are so dumb that they would not be able to recall the info they just relayed?

For all I know - maybe they mentioned it even more times - I tuned out somewhere around the half-way point!

#474. Posted by: shikotee at March 14, 2009 4:55 PM

@-472 plain simple
re-spoiler show in the uk.
i am in scotland uk, we watch lost on a satelite chanel called sky 1, these people have no idea how to deal with a show like lost, they put some documentary show on before each new season of lost, i believe this one was hosted by a guy called ian lee, the show was called i love lost,it featured this idiot english guy asking jack bender if he could have a walk on part, i was amazed when he walked up to some of the actors who were relaxing off set about getting some kind of cameo roll, i seen some members of the cast were wearing dharma jump-suits, i cant beleive these people who make the progam would do this, i dont think they know anything about lost or anyone who watches it. if they had shown this time filler show in the usa they would have upset a great deal of people.

#475. Posted by: san at March 14, 2009 9:25 PM

http://www./b104261_alpha_male_madness_round_2_whos_tvs_top.html

vote for the Lost men here. So far they are ahead! No Desmond though. or Hurley.

#476. Posted by: berkyo at March 15, 2009 11:54 AM

474. Posted by: shikotee
Speaking of weak enhanced captions, how about when it explained that "Mr. I speak to dead people" was Miles. Uh, thanks for that. Guess I didn't need to watch the first 90 expisodes after all.

#477. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 15, 2009 12:19 PM

My favorite was still when they explained that the title "No Place Like Home" was a reference to "The Wizard of Oz"? Really? I never would have gotten that without the captions...

#478. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 15, 2009 1:05 PM

→ ##2. Posted by: ... has anyone figured-out what LaFleur means?
--- --- ---
"LWTHSATB"

LaFleur Was The Hick Sheriff At The Barracks.

#479. Posted by: Bobola at March 15, 2009 11:49 PM

@476 berkyo posted:

>http://www./b104261_alpha_male_madness_round_2_whos_tvs_top.html

>vote for the Lost men here. So far they are ahead! No Desmond though. or Hurley.

That URL didn't work for me, but this one will:

http://tinyurl.com/cboctz

Get out there and vote! ILBLXX, your hero is losing in the second round!

Selected results:

Alpha Male Madness, Round 2

Game 1.2
47.9% Ben Linus (Michael Emerson), Lost
52.1% Eric Northman (Alexander Skarsgård), True Blood
(Close - let's turn it around)

Game 1.4
59.6% Seeley Booth (David Boreanaz), Bones
40.4% Dexter Morgan (Michael C. Hall), Dexter
(A Travesty)


Game 2.2
50.2% Eric Taylor (Kyle Chandler), Friday Night Lights
49.8% John Locke (Terry O'Quinn), Lost
(My heart's torn on this one)


Game 2.3
47.3% Jack Bauer (Kiefer Sutherland), 24
52.7% Sam Winchester (Jared Padalecki), Supernatural
(Absurd. No one is more alpha than Jack - this Jack, that is)


Game 3.1
65.7% James "Sawyer" Ford (Josh Holloway), Lost
34.3% Henry VIII (Jonathan Rhys Meyers), The Tudors
(TG)


Game 3.2
60.1% Peter Bishop (Joshua Jackson), Fringe
39.9% Tim Riggins (Taylor Kitsch), Friday Night Lights
(Hate to see Riggins go down, but...)


Game 3.3
55.0% Sayid Jarrah (Naveen Andrews), Lost
45.0% Owen Hunt (Kevin McKidd), Grey's Anatomy
(Hear!, Hear!)


Game 3.4
44.3% Chuck Bartowski (Zachary Levi), Chuck
55.7% Jack Shephard (Matthew Fox), Lost
(The only one on the list Jack could beat)


Game 4.4
67.3% Gregory House (Hugh Laurie), House
32.7% Michael Scott (Steve Carell), The Office
(Seriously, did any one even think this could be a match?)

#480. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 16, 2009 11:56 AM

Thanks Cecil. I dk why that tiny url won't work for me.....

can I vote twice? three times????

#481. Posted by: berkyo at March 16, 2009 11:59 AM

The results above are not final, just the score so far.

They don't say when this round of voting closes.

They apparently don't have multiple vote controls. (Your move, ILBLXX)

#482. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 16, 2009 12:05 PM

yes! I can ;)

#483. Posted by: berkyo at March 16, 2009 12:06 PM

If the tiny url doesn't work either (you realize you have to cut and paste, right?) just Google "alpha male madness".

For non-USA readers, brackets like this are popular around this time of year as counterparts to the annual "March Madness", or 64-team NCAA (US college) basketball playoff bracket pairings.

#484. Posted by: Cecil at March 16, 2009 12:10 PM

HOW IS JACK WINNING AND BEN LOOSING?!?!

I voted for Ben, and CHUCK!!! He's just about 56413516843513186435131 xinfinity times better than Jack.

Vote for Ben everyone!!!!

#485. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 16, 2009 7:45 PM

I meant 'losing"... not 'loosing'.

#486. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 16, 2009 7:48 PM

ILBLxx's FAVORITE ALPHA MALES:
1. BENJAMIN LINUS <33333333333333333333333 (obviously)
2. Gregory House
3. Jim Halpert <333
4. Peter Bishop
5. Chuck Bartowski
6. Hotch (Aaron Hotchner)
7. MICHAEL SCOFILED <333 (You would think that his breathing would bother me but he's sexy when he breathes funny... by the way, I LOVE Prison Break -- for everyone that hasn't seen it, or doesn't watch it, WATCH IT!!!)
8. Chuck Bass
9. LUCAS SCOTT!!! (Mostly because of his voiceover quotes)

I voted again... If you just refresh the page it lets you.

I MUST MAKE BEN WIN!!!
VOTE FOR BENJAMIN LINUS EVERYONE!!!

#487. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 16, 2009 7:54 PM

I came here going into withdrawal...is it Wednesday YET!? And then berkyo turned my frown upside down with all of the alpha male madness. Aaaahhhh...just the diversion that I needed. Muchas gracias.

I have to say that I felt very torn when I reached the Ben Linus vs. Eric Northman. As much as I have previously professed my love for Ben, Alexander Skarsgård is just YUMMY. Anyone who has every watched True Blood has to admit that...I don't care who you are. If you have read all of the books, which I highly recommend BTW, he is even yummier.

Any way, thank you berkyo for the distraction. Now, is it Wednesday yet? I'm starting to get the shakes.

#488. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 16, 2009 10:21 PM

no......it's Tuesday.......

#489. Posted by: berkyo at March 17, 2009 10:26 AM

ILBLXX

You haven't voted enough. Ben's still losing. Organize your friends.

#490. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 17, 2009 10:37 AM

********************=====>

Did anyone see the latest Indiana Jones? It ended up being really alien involved...

LOST is going that route... time travel, ancient Egyptian stuff... does anyone remember the OTHERS building a runway for the alien spaceships? Maybe that wasn't sarcasim, maybe it was real?!?

Somehow that all might tie in... ?!?!

Or maybe I'm just blowin' smoke...

*****************+++<

#491. Posted by: Mr Naysayer at March 17, 2009 6:34 PM

Mr Naysayer,

Depending upon which state you live in, the smoke you're blowing may or may not be getting closer to decriminalization, regulation, and taxation.

But since you're trying to figure out LOST, and getting painful headaches and, I'm sure, ex-sanguinating nosebleeds...sounds medicinal to me.

Say, did anybody else see or read anything about Daniel's missing left foot in the Season 4 DVD cast photo? It's not just hidden behind a plant or anything. It's been cgi-ed out.

#492. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 18, 2009 12:02 PM

the ONLY thing that needs to be CGI'd out of LOST is the bugeye, bubblebutt, one trick monster known as Ben. his breathing is much more retarded than Jack.

#493. Posted by: ihatebenjaminlinusxx at March 18, 2009 5:59 PM

TGIW!!!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

#494. Posted by: ilovenewepisodesxx aka Clementine at March 18, 2009 7:21 PM

Ben Linus pronounced!

Jimmy Kimmel
Micheal Emerson
Daniel Dae Kim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAhsQfg0u8Y

#495. Posted by: mtncbn at March 18, 2009 7:56 PM

@ 487. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: Prison Break was interesting for about 12 episodes. Then it became very, very stupid.

#496. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 18, 2009 8:07 PM

youtube can be addicting. I wonder if the author of this might be ILBLXX?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRSlihObsQ

#497. Posted by: mtncbn at March 18, 2009 8:24 PM

Hey ilovebenjaminlinusxx...two bits of info to pass on to you. First, there was a story on my local news today that quoted Matthew Fox as saying that after Lost is over he is done with TV. Looks like his heavy breathing will be relegated to the big screen, thus easier for you to avoid. Also, Michael Emerson is going to be on the
Bonnie Hunt show tomorrow. The commericals looked pretty funny. You'll have to Tivo it.

23 minutes and counting!!

#498. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 18, 2009 8:36 PM

@ all
it doesnt help me when you guys type in "TGIW" or ooohh 30 minutes to go!!
i have to wait till friday to see the new episode, lol just kiddin - enjoy the new episode tonight guys, you deserve it after this mid season break nonsense, catch you all on friday.

#499. Posted by: san at March 18, 2009 8:57 PM

just wanted to take post 500

#500. Posted by: san at March 18, 2009 8:58 PM

Question ...

Who knew that the Hydra Island runway needed to be constructed for 316 to crash-land on?

Hmm ...

#501. Posted by: ealgumby at March 18, 2009 9:22 PM

Kudos to all who predicted the baby would be Ethan!

#502. Posted by: Christina at March 18, 2009 10:31 PM

Knowing now that Amy's child is Ethan. I believe it proves that Amy was supposed to live thru that threat of the break in the truce. As Doc Jensen states on EW.com this may be a deal that Horace and Richard Alpert have previously agreed because Horace wanted Amy for some reason, for himself.

#503. Posted by: bubbles at March 19, 2009 1:16 AM

@497 mtncbn posted:

>I wonder if the author of this might be ILBLXX?

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRSlihObsQ

Nah, ILBLXX can spell "appreciated".

#504. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 19, 2009 9:30 AM