The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Some Like It Hoth"

Season 5, Episode 13
Episode Air Date: 04/15/09

Point 1
Miles

Hurley
I thought this would be season five's "funny" episode -- and it certainly lived up to that billing -- but "Some Like It Hoth" also showed that Miles has deep island connections that put him in the same league as Locke and Ben.

The overt connection is via his father, Dr. Pierre Chang. We had big hints Chang might be Miles' daddy when the cranky Dharma doctor was shown caring for his newborn child in the season five opener, "Because You Left." That paternal connection is now confirmed. The epic "Was that Baby Asian?" debate is put to rest.

Beyond the Chang hook, Miles' backstory reveals two secondary connections that could emerge as vital components in the future story:

  1. I'm assuming Miles wasn't born on the island (remember, Ethan's on-island birth was unusual), but did the island "give" Miles his ghost whispering ability? If so, why? And is Miles connected to Walt in some way? To date (and if I'm remembering correctly), Miles and Walt are the only two characters who have built-in abilities. Desmond earned his by destroying the hatch, so I'm guessing he only has a Hall of Justice visitor pass.
  2. Miles is actively recruited by two warring groups: Team Widmore and a murky second faction. If Miles was merely a secondary character, why would Widmore throw $1.6 million at him? Why would a platoon of masked men toss Miles in the back of a van and plead with him to reject Widmore's offer and join them instead? Clearly, the island has big plans for Miles ... he just doesn't know it yet. (Or I'm blowing this out of proportion because I think the dude's funny and want him to stick around.)

    Sidenote: This anti-Widmore group is verrrry interesting. To date, the group's only known characteristics are an open hatred of all things Widmore and a passion for that thing that lies in the shadow of the statue ("What lies in the shadow of the statue?" is this season's version of the numbers -- an adjacent mystery that may never be directly answered, but catalyzes events nonetheless). The safe bet would peg the anti-Widmores as Ben's shadow organization -- and we're led to believe this is the case since Miles requests $3.2 million from both the anti-Widmores and Ben -- but could the group be something entirely different: perhaps a resurrected Dharma Initiative (The Bloodthirsty Hansos? The Screamin' Mad Degroots?)? Beyond affiliation, how do the Ajirans fit in? Is Ilana an active member (remember, she asked Frank the all-important statue question last week), or was she inducted post-crash?

Miles' on-island adventure offers a number of revelations, confirmations and questions (of course):

  • Miles' mother claimed that Chang never cared about her or Miles, but grown-up Miles sees his father acting all goo-eyed with the three-month-old version of miles. So what's the real story? Does Chang push his family away to protect them? Is Miles' mother up to no good?
  • We see the Pearl Swan under construction in Hostile territory, which explains Radzinsky's desire to cut Sayid into little bits. We also see that the island's electromagnetic properties wreak havoc on dental work (a poor Dharma drone dies when a filling shoots through his brain from the inside).
  • Dr. Chang has no time for silly zoological experiments. He calls the polar bear experiments "ridiculous." Put another way: time travel = varsity; bears = JV.
  • Despite their long time-travel debate, Hurley still isn't sold on the no-paradox rule. He's been writing the script for "Empire Strikes Back" from memory -- itself an act that falls within "no paradox" because, technically, Hurley could have always been the source of the script -- but he can't resist the opportunity to revise the story, which clearly violates the paradox block (sadly, paradox was powerless to stop "The Phantom Menace").
  • In the closing moments of the episode we see Dr. Chang and Miles welcome a team of scientists at the submarine dock, and one of them is our shaggy-haired-Charlotte-lover, Daniel Faraday! I've been obsessed with Faraday's role in the 1977 plot line (I seem to reference that unconnected Faraday/Orchid scene from "Before You Left" in every review), so his reappearance certainly piques my curiosity -- and opens up a big can of questions: When did Faraday leave the island? Is he a legitimate Dharma scientist or did he con his way onto the sub? Is he working with his mother, Eloise Hawking? Is he still wearing that skinny tie? There's lots to consider here.
  • Given Miles' ghost whispering talents, what are the chances he eventually runs into the Adam and Eve skeletons?
Point 2
Kate

Sawyer

Juliet
"Well, here we go."

With these four words, Juliet succinctly forecasts the ball of hell that's about to roll through Dharmaville.

It all begins with Roger Linus noticing that his bullet-riddled son is missing from the Dharma infirmary. Kate -- stupid, stupid Kate -- tries to console Roger, but since she's the world's most pathetic liar, he senses something is amiss. How did this woman evade arrest all those years?

Toss in videotape evidence of Sawyer and Kate running young Ben into Other territory, and Sawyer's subsequent knock-out and imprisonment of Phil, that beady-eyed Dharma security guard, and you've got yourself a steaming pot of Oh-Crap gumbo.

Point 3
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • This episode set a record with five best lines (official voting was tabulated by a show of hands from people watching "Lost" in my basement). The big winner was Hurley's excellent "Empire Strikes Back" / daddy issue analysis: "It could have been avoided if they just communicated. And let's face it, the Ewoks sucked, dude."
  • Second Best Line: "You're just jealous my power's better than yours." -- Hurley, putting down Miles' non-conversational ghost-whispering abilities.
  • Third Best Line: "Maybe it's your famous garlic mayo." -- Miles to Hurley, when a whiff of corpse blows through their van.
  • Fourth Best Line: "Dude, that guy's a total douche." -- Hurley, aptly describing Dr. Chang.
  • Fifth Best Line: "Chewbacca ... rowwrrrr" -- Miles, reading from Hurley's "Empire Strikes Back" draft.
  • I'm launching a campaign to make Captain and Tennille's "Love Will Keep Us Together" the official theme of Hurley and Miles. During dramatic moments they can add cellos to create a foreboding and chipper soundscape.

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"The Story of the Oceanic 6" -- A repeat disguised as a clip show. Airs Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 9 p.m. on ABC. Next new show: "The Variable." Airs Wednesday, April 29, 2009.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

some like it mif

#1. Posted by: some like it meg at April 16, 2009 12:11 AM

Meg is first!!! (I've always wanted to say that!)

#2. Posted by: BE_Lost at April 16, 2009 12:13 AM

I love every episode, but I thought this one was a little disappointing. I'd expected more for Miles' backstory. Plus, I thought it was fairly predictable: Faraday in Ann Arbor, Miles' as Chang's son, Kate screwing up Ben's disappearance, Phil getting too nosy and messing things up for our time travelers.

All in all tho, I hate it when the hour is almost over every time. Only show I look fwd to watching every week! And I love this blog!

GRAA mac!

#3. Posted by: BE_Lost at April 16, 2009 12:22 AM

MIF
Mac Is Future

the show isn't even half over and his post is up!!

#4. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 12:31 AM

I loved it when Sawyer just cold-cocked Phil. Classic Sawyer. "Let's see......the easiest way to deal with Phil....SMACK!!!"

I'm glad that we have the "numbers" back in the show, even if they're just serial numbers.

#5. Posted by: dk at April 16, 2009 12:39 AM

Faraday's apparently back + Episode #100 + a title suspiciously similar to "The Constant" = my expectations for "The Variable" are at an unforeseen level of epic.

#6. Posted by: Brandon at April 16, 2009 12:43 AM

I too agree that this episode was pretty predictable. We all had ideas that Miles was Dr. Chang's son. I can't believe they are maing us wait 2 weeks for the next episode. This is the second time this season they have done this to us. Let's hope its worth the wait

#7. Posted by: michaelmvp at April 16, 2009 12:44 AM

this episode was fan-freaking-tastic. indeed there were many great lines, another one of which was hurley to dr. chang: "polar bear poop--got it."

#8. Posted by: schmaboo at April 16, 2009 1:01 AM

@Mac
I know you meant the Swan, not the Pearl under construction.

#9. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 1:20 AM

GRAA Mac!

****

Finally, the Miles back story episode. I have been waiting for that one for a long time. Perhaps it's the long wait, but it's a bit underwhelming. And I'm not sure I like where they're going with Miles's 'I see dead people' ability. Will we someday get some kind of explanation for that one, or are we just going to have to except that Lost is opening up the organ of fantasy on all registers now?

****

Mac, I don't think Hurley's improvements to Empire violate anything. After all, it's not very likely that his 'script' would be turned into a movie without any changes? ... Actually, that would explain how Phantom Menace came to be. :)


****

Did anyone catch what the blackboard that Jack was erasing said? I managed to glimpse the word "Egyptian" before it got erased.

****

"What lies beneath the shadow of the statue?" It definitely seems like a code. A check whether someone is part of the organisation or not. But why would 'they' think Miles is one of them? And who are they? In league with Ben? Or with Paik? Or with Hawking? Or someone new this late in the story?

I didn't follow most of the discussion here the last few weeks, so perhaps this has been said, but what does lie in the shadow of the statue? First of all, wouldn't that depend on the time of day? :) Perhaps its the well with the FDW. After all, the Losties could see the statue from the well just before being flashed to '74. That's assuming that that is the statue they are talking about. Alternatively, with all the 'ancient civilisation' treads running through the show, could they possibly mean the Colossos of Rhodos, or the Sphinx in Egypt?

****

I agree with the people who said this episode was a bit predictable, although at the end I expected the De Groots to come out of the sub. They were at Ann Arbor, weren't they?


****

The best 'line' was unspoken: Miles's look in reaction to his father's 'confession' that he likes country.

****

I liked Jack in this episode better than in "Whatever happened, happened". Clam, helpful, to the point. Perhaps there is something to say for Jack 2.0.

****

Are we now supposed to wonder why the hatch's serial number consisted exactly of Hurley's number? Are we now supposed to wonder if Hurley will try to sabotage the hatch? (btw, Mac, don't you mean the Swan where you said the Pearl? Or am I mixing up my Dharma stations?) Are we now supposed to think that Hurley causes the accident that will lead to the necessity of button pushing? If the Swan is built in hostile territory, does that improve the chances of it being built over Jughead (somebody set us up the bomb!)? If dr Pierre -I love country, pseudonyms, and perhaps my son- Chang disagrees with what's going on on Hydra Island, does that means he hasn't complete freedom in steering the Island's research programme? Does this come from his higher ups in Ann Arbor? The De Groots? Faraday?


****

What's with this show and father issues? Come on you Egyptologists out there, which Egyptian god or half god had father issues? (They usually all have.)


****

How to interpret the dead guy's lines (via Miles) about pictures of empty graves and the order for an airplane being sent to Widmore? Does this imply that Ben was behind the set up (if Widmore was behind it, why would he need someone to bring him the order for the plane?) or perhaps the Statue group? (We need a name for them... the Shadows? the Statuataries?...)

****

Is there more to the Star Wars references than meets the eye? Will we get a pod race flashback? Are we in danger of meeting Ewoks soon if the characters on the show don't work out their tons of daddy issues? Did *gasp* Shannon shoot first?

#10. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 16, 2009 1:35 AM

@myself in 10: "I liked Jack in this episode better than in "Whatever happened, happened". Clam, helpful, to the point. Perhaps there is something to say for Jack 2.0."

I meant "calm", not clam. Although he does seem to have lost his spine. :)

#11. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 16, 2009 1:39 AM

I hope this doesn't sound macabre but has anyone else wondered if there is any significance to the bodies that are being moved around? In tonight's episode, a body was delivered to Dr. Chang and in a the LaFleur episode, I recall that the Other's requested Amy's husband's body. Do you think this has something to do with subduing (appeasing?)Smokey??

I've long wondered what the significance that Paolo and Nikki had to the story line (because the writing here is so very sharp and it seems no scene is wasted) and wonder if their bodies will be needed in a future plot twist.

Such a clever show!

#12. Posted by: Faye McK at April 16, 2009 1:44 AM

I think that the man from the "other side" that spoke to Miles in the van is the same man w/ Ilana last week asking about the shadow of the statue. He was on the Ajira flight that recently crashed.

#13. Posted by: needmorelost at April 16, 2009 2:01 AM

P.S. #13 is my first post ever! I love this blog-thanks to Mac and all of the other posters!

#14. Posted by: needmorelost at April 16, 2009 2:03 AM

The man (Bram?) who was leading the van full of anti-Whitmore folks was definitely the same guy who was with Ilana when she punched out Lapidus. I just re-watched that scene to check.

#15. Posted by: Michael Moncur at April 16, 2009 2:58 AM

@13: "the man from the "other side" ... is the same man w/ Ilana last week"

It is the same guy - his name's "Bram" ... like Bram Stoker I guess.

Kate IS so stupid, stupid ... once again, being incredibly DUMB ... a great candidate for a character in a stupid teenage horror movie!

Yes, a pretty straightforward episode ... but I for one liked it, as I do all of them, whether they're predictable, got budget smokey effects and make-up hairdos, or whatever else people like to complain about ... still fantastic in my oipnion!

And a few Qs were answered ~ $3.2 million for one ...

... and I can't believe a few new ones were posed ~ who ARE the "Statuatuaries"? Because apparently they're not Widmores' crew (I guess that means Widmore won't be popping out of the steel box ... which I kinda thought was a really weird idea, then again I don't watch BSG, so I guess if you do watch BSG it would make more sense)

... and I don't think they're Ben's either coz wouldn't he take them with him when he took off the two times he's taken off for manpower, etc.?

Whatever the case, I have no idea who they are with but it's all INCREDIBLY interesting and I can't wait to find out who the heck they are and whether they're indeed the ones who are gonna win! Crikey, as if there isn't enough to wonder about in terms of who's who and what's what and where is where??!!

And about that "statue code question" ... okay, it's obviously a code, but when Bram is asking Miles the same Q in the van, it seems like it's something that the people who know ... should just know, and not because someone told them the answer to the "code" question ... hope that makes sense =)

#16. Posted by: Lost-in-NZ at April 16, 2009 3:36 AM

Thanks Mac!!

One of my favorite lines was, "...you owe me a fish taco." Miles told Bram when he was thrown into the van.

#17. Posted by: boodle at April 16, 2009 7:13 AM

Ugh ... The Swan is the hatch under construction, not the Pearl. Thanks for the catch mtncbn and Plain Simple! -- mac

#18. Posted by: mac at April 16, 2009 7:38 AM

So was Bram on the Ajira flight, or was he on the island? I am not sure where the connection is, but I am sure we will find out.

I am happy that our suscpicions about Miles' parentage were correct -- but it would have been nice to have more information (as always).

I love Hurley, although he has a snowball's chance in hell of keeping a secret. I guess that it is a good thing then that Kate has already brought about the destruction of Dharmaville, because otherwise it might have been Hurley.

And for the record I liked the Ewoks -- of course when I saw Empire I was only 10, and that could have colored my perceptions.

How did Daniel get off the island in the first place? Too many questions not enough episodes to give us the answers!!!!

#19. Posted by: Elora D at April 16, 2009 7:44 AM

Nice synopsis of a funny episode.
The hour goes by tooooooo fast however.
Looking forward to all the comments because there were a LOT of funny lines last night!

I hate to think that all the hullabaloo about the numbers all originated with a serial number being embedded in a hatch door.

Miles and Hurley are on their way to a great vaudeville act if they could just "foom" back another 75 years!

On with the day, boys and girls . . Let's see where this goes . . .

#20. Posted by: davidrh at April 16, 2009 8:04 AM

BTW, Sledgewedge is already starting to put up episode stills. The first set is Baum (guy in the van)both on and off the island.

Last week they had stills of all the wall markings in the temple basement - surely Jack's blackboard will show up before the day is out . .

#21. Posted by: davidrh at April 16, 2009 8:10 AM

Here's a direct link to the Sledgeweb image referenced by Davidrh:

http://bit.ly/nWMMZ

#22. Posted by: mac at April 16, 2009 8:14 AM

This is far fetched, but it popped into my head this morning. What if the people on 316 that have taken control are actually decendents of Others wanting to take back the island. They would know what is in the shadow of the statue, and therefore can tell if you are a "true" other. It would set up a struggle for the island between the new others and old others.

#23. Posted by: Kevin P at April 16, 2009 8:22 AM

Best line--by Miles:
"The ditch had a gun."
--when told they guy who appeared to have a bullet wound to the head had fallen in a ditch.

Oh yeah and MWTB!

And stop ragging on Ewoks and Phantom Menace. There had to be a little something to lighten things up in Jedi as the counter point to Luke's final showdown with Daddy...and Pahntom Menace? Yes it had JarJar (I've never been convinced that he's the movie wrecker everyone makes him out to be), and Yes it has little boy Darth Vader going "Yipppeeeeee!" But it also has the two Jedi vs. on double bladed lightsabre wielding kick ass Darth Maul in the single best light saber dual of the six movies accompanied by the great John Williams' Dual of the Fates theme! That more than makes up for any flaws Menace might have had.
But how the heck does Hurley think he can improve on Empire? That's the only one of the 6 that I can't find a single thing about that I don't like--a perfect movie!

#24. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 16, 2009 8:52 AM

That whole scene with Kate and Roger made me tear my hair out. At Roger's irrational blowup (dude, she was helping save your kid, remember? Lighten up.) and at the fact that Kate is a better liar than that! Augh! It's like a second language to her! WTF, writers?? Are women not allowed to be cool on this show?

Juliet's whining to Roger in the infirmary didn't help, either. The Juliet I know would have come up with a better backup plan than something that would have Roger running straight to security, where they would have seen the tape of Sawyer and Kate at the sonic fence! Sheesh!

#25. Posted by: ... at April 16, 2009 8:52 AM

Great review Mac! I love your blog the bestest.

All I can say is, whooo, Miles, have a few piercings, eh???? Ouch!!! It really distracted me from listening carefully to his balding mum's final words, which is just plain unfair. And even though I was already convinced Miles was Chang's son, I still did a little jump when he actually said it.

I think I saw yet another Dharma logo on Hurley's LukasWorks composition book - was it a school logo with an apple and book? I only saw it for a second but it seemed filmed so we would see it.

Here's a question. If the Swan is being built over Jughead, was it not Faraday who told Widmore's F-Troop to bury it? They had it hanging out in the open in 1954. Obviously the location for the Swan is hugely important or they wouldn't risk Hostile wrath to build it - is Dharma mistaking the bomb for a natural island phenomenon or is the electromagnetism really part of the island?

I agree with those who think the Statuaries (great name btw!)are the new Dharma Initiative. I don't think it's a simple Ben vs. Chuck battle anymore. They are coming back, perhaps with a desire to stop the Purge - but they're in the wrong era, unfortunately. Maybe Ilana's magic zigler box holds the means to cross the decades.

OK TPTB, the writers are letting me down! I really want to know why Juliet lied so very poorly to Roger - what she was setting up because it was just the lamest "oops - I lost your son" exchange - like a really bad actor adlibbing. And Rog's response is to drink out in the open on the swingset and then go back to WORK? I think Roger's character is the most poorly written one EVER and I hope he gets another dimension soon.

Also, can someone help me with who's on what island? I am totally forgetting. Love your comments, y'all.

#26. Posted by: Glostover at April 16, 2009 8:53 AM

@#23

Hey, I like that too. Bram did say he would "reveal all" to Miles about why he is the way he is, so perhaps the Statuaries know more about the island than the DI, therefore have knowledge that predates them. Thanks.

#27. Posted by: Glostover at April 16, 2009 8:58 AM

Loved this episode.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Bram/Baum (does anyone know which is right?) is an actor that played on the short-lived show "October Road." As stated before, it was definitely him with Iliana last week. Could he/they/the Ajirans be Ellie's people? Or Paik's? Obviously not Widmore's and if they were Ben's, wouldn't they have gone with Ben and Locke to the island last week?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I love the idea that by providing the last number, Hurley may ultimately be responsible for "the incident." Although, I hope for poor Hurley's sake, he doesn't realize he's responsible. I don't think his conscience could take it.

Is there any chance that the guy that couldn't read the smeared number is the guy from the asylum? Maybe he feels guilty about causing the incident...that's a stretch but you never know with this show.

****************************************

How happy do you think that the actor who plays Faraday was to get rid of the skinny tie and blood-stained shirt? I'm happy to not have to look at it anymore.

#28. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 8:58 AM

Are the Statuaries the same group that was chasing Sayid and shot him with the tranq darts?

#29. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 16, 2009 9:01 AM

@ 26. Posted by: Glostover

"is Dharma mistaking the bomb for a natural island phenomenon or is the electromagnetism really part of the island?"

I was thinking the same thing...that they don't really know what they are dealing with and the result is not going to be good.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

@ 29. Posted by: Crispy

"Are the Statuaries the same group that was chasing Sayid and shot him with the tranq darts?"

Good thinking! You all are so smart...you make me smarter by association ;-)

#30. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 9:07 AM

How did Dharma get beer cans with "new style" pop tops? I thought all cans in the 70"s had the removable pop tops...Invention time travel

#31. Posted by: L at April 16, 2009 9:13 AM

(Here's a direct link to the Sledgeweb image referenced by Davidrh)

Mac - you're the best!

#32. Posted by: Renee at April 16, 2009 9:15 AM

@ #28 lost2theworld.

IMDB, lists the role as "BRAM" (not Baum). Also intersting, this actor is given credit for playing Bram in 5 lost episodes (3 having aired, 2 to come):

Namaste
Dead is Dead
Some Like it Hoth
The Incident, part I
The Incident, part II

#33. Posted by: GatorGal at April 16, 2009 9:19 AM

Still counting the SW references. I think 10 might be ballpark...never cared for them damn Ewoks myself...probably pretty tasty tho...didn't hate Jar Jar, but seriously disliked Little Ani, Portman and Christenson. DMWTB (Darth Maul Was The Bomb).

I think Dan went to Ann Arbor to do a little light shopping at a men's store...his whiteshirt and skinny tie were getting a mite gamey.

My first thought was that Alvarez got himself shot in the head right through the filling. But the electro-magnetism yanking his filling through his head makes more sense.

Nice to see Naomi again...always thought she made a better cutie than a knife-throwing target.

With all the arm-chopping business, somehow Miles just HAS to be responsible for Chang's arm getting lopped. I got a dollar that says so.

#34. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 16, 2009 9:20 AM

I don't think Hurley provided the last number. To me, he whispered it to himself. The worker-guys were far enough away to not hear him. To me, the scene played that Hurley knew what the last number was going to be.

@10: I'm sure someone will post caps of that blackboard. There was some major stuff on there about gods and Egypt. Can't wait to examine it!

Love "Statuaries". Agreed, their secret handshake seems to be the riddle.

I thought the Miles/Father theme was handled a bit clumsily by the writers (that flashback where Miles gave back the money ... urgh!). Just a minor complaint, though.

#35. Posted by: DCDude at April 16, 2009 9:23 AM

Couldn't figure out why Miles looked so familiar with all the piercings then realized he looked just like the character he played in Xmen 3 when he had all the spiky things on his face!

And when Hurley said Miles could go hold himself or change his own diaper I was totally thinking that would be "The Incident"

#36. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 16, 2009 9:26 AM

Thanks GatorGal! (#33) I saw both in the posts so I wasn't sure. Bram was such a nice, awe-shucks kind of character in "October Road" it's hard to see take him seriously as a tough guy.

Ransom, (#34) if you were right, and there are exactly 10 Star Wars references, I will officially declare that....RJITB or RansomJacksonIsTheBomb!

I can't help but ponder, when will there ever be a show that is this "the bomb" again. It is a little depressing to think that there very well may never be.

#37. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 9:29 AM

Mac -GRAA!!! How is the new little one?

@lost2theworld -- Hurley didn't provide the last number, he just knew it was going to come up.

So I had this running theory - -that may have been posted here, sometimes it gets hard to keep up -- That the reason Sun and Ben didn't foom back to the 70's was because they were somehow already there, but last night's episode just blew that one out of the water. Bummer!

Did giving Aaron away kill off some of Kate's brain cells? She used to be more savvy -- notice I didn't say smart. What was she thinking?

Miles and Hurley ROCK! They can banter all day as far as I am concerned. The best part about that being that anything that anyone tells Hurley will eventually come out.

#38. Posted by: Wendy at April 16, 2009 9:32 AM

@36. Posted by: Crispy

And when Hurley said Miles could go hold himself or change his own diaper I was totally thinking that would be "The Incident"

I am thinking that Chang finds out that big Miles is his son from "teleHurley" and sends his wife and little Miles away to avoid another rabbit incident. Or maybe that's how he discovers that getting too close to yourself is a bad thing. Maybe Miles is the character that bites the dust this season, because he gets too close to himself.

OK, gotta go do something productive. Be back later!

#39. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 9:36 AM

@10 Plain Simple: My guess regarding the comment about the empty graves and the airplane is that the dead guy might have had something to do with (or at least had knowledge of) the fake "wreckage" of the 815 flight that Widmore staged at the bottom of the ocean. Maybe he was trying to blackmail Widmore with the photos and documents?

#40. Posted by: DC at April 16, 2009 9:43 AM

those lines were just too funny. I think miles' sarcasm really shadows sayers'.
Great episode and great review mac.
BTW does anyone know how many episodes we've got left for this season???

#41. Posted by: mapache at April 16, 2009 9:44 AM

@#28

Correct on Bram character. The actor's name is Brad William Henke and I am one of the few souls to have watched all of October Road. My wife was pregnant and... well she ruled the remote then. But there is something else about this actor and Lost and I've heard this before on this site: he made an uncredited cameo in a previous season. Some scene on the beach. Is it a beach funeral scene? Can someone confirm. Being an OR watcher I remember seeing him with one or two lines and thinking he obviously must have caught the eye of ABC casting and disappeared into OR. But here he is.

#42. Posted by: rinz at April 16, 2009 9:45 AM

Statuaries (Van Men) = Ajirans

I liked skunk-punk Miles. Those piercings were sweet!

The Others must be spread pretty thin if they can't determine the construction of the Swan in their territory. It ends up being underground so maybe they were spying on the Others?

I think Faraday told Dharma taht he was a theoretical scientist when they arrived in Dharmaville. This would explain his crazy futuristic thinking. He was then made into a recruiter and sent off the island in order to find more mad scientists. What I don't understand is why Miles looked surprised to see him when he came out of the sub. Wasn't he with the Foomers when the FDW stopped?

#43. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at April 16, 2009 9:51 AM

@40. I thought the dead guy, who "told" Miles about the fake plane, might have been the guy in the "Red Sox" video from Season 4, "The Other Woman" -- the guy who is blindfolded and murdered by Widmore.

#44. Posted by: DCDude at April 16, 2009 9:57 AM


@ 31 - How did Dharma get beer cans with "new style" pop tops? I thought all cans in the 70"s had the removable pop tops...Invention time travel

Hello - good one!!

Thanks also, Lost2theworld for the theory about why Dr. Chang may have sent baby Miles away - clearly he loved him.

#45. Posted by: Glostover at April 16, 2009 10:04 AM

Thanks for another well done review Mac.

I miss Claire.

Begin Star Wars geekiness.

Hurley got it wrong...he stated that Luke found out DV was his father and didn't put his light saber down to communicate about it so he got his hand cut off. That's not the order it happened. In Empire, DV slices Luke's hand off...then reveals that he is Darth Daddy. Someone who has seen Empire as much as Hurley claims wouldn't have made that mistake!

Star Wars geekiness over.

I enjoyed this ep a lot. I like seeing Jack in such a submissive role right now.

I do think the show needs to be careful about introducing too many new characters at this point. The Statuaries for example...and I don't want that question of what lies beneath the shadow of the statue to drag on and on with no resolution...

I miss Claire.

#46. Posted by: JoePike at April 16, 2009 10:10 AM

Quick question for anyone out there. When Faraday goes away in the sub, when does he go to? If he goes to 1977, then that implies that the island and earth are in synchronization. That makes the island something of a time portal, not an entity existing on a somewhat independent time line. If Faraday is still in 1977 when he is away on the sub (how long has he been gone? Three years?) he will be living at a time when he was a child.

Could Miles' ghost-whispering abilities been created by interaction (yet to occur) with his baby self? Miles said he recognized his mother as someone standing three people behind him. When was that, or did I hear that wrong?

This is definitely an episode that bears rewatching with the reverse button clutched beneath my thumb and my speakers turned up to full volume.

#47. Posted by: August Paul at April 16, 2009 10:12 AM

Definitely great to see Naomi again. She is beautiful!!

#48. Posted by: Kirk B. at April 16, 2009 10:13 AM

Just 2 episodes ago, when Juliet and Kate were on the porch of the infirmary discussing Ben's options for his grave situation, Kate asked about the submarine, and Juliet replied it won't be back for 2 months. And yet here it came with a group of scientists just a day later. Or this could still be the same day. You'd think that the girlfriend of the head of security would be "in the know". Is this just writer's error, or is there something more to it?

I know there is a lot of speculation on reincarnation but it really seems more clear now. The others, and even Darma are very concerned about the dead. Others "take" the dead. Darma buries them or secretly "puts them somewhere". Are these bodies being reincarnated? Sacrificed? Could that be what happened to Christian, Claire, and Locke? Ben said "dead is dead". Was Alex smokey or is she still walking around "dead" somewhere?

Is last night's dead guy the first instance in the past 3 years that Miles had the opportunity to use his powers? I find it odd that he has not bumped into Richard Alpert, especially since he too is working in security. Miles likely has this gift because he was born on the island. Wouldn't Richard know he is one in the same?

Also I guess we now know it's possible to doubly exist in the same time period. Grown up Miles was on the island before baby Miles was born, but now they both exist at the same time. This seems very odd to me. Can he interact with himself? Change his own diaper like Hurley said?

Was the dead body an Other or Darma? Are those Darma who are "in the circle of trust" working with the Others? What exactly happened to kill that person? I thought he was shot, but after reading the posts and remembering Miles' conversation, his filling shot through his brain and killed him? Where was he digging? Was it too close to an electromagnetic field? Why were they so secretive about retrieving and hiding the body?

When Miles didn't know the answer to the statue question in the van, they said "you're not ready?" Ready for what? Is he special because he was born on the island, but yet he's not ready to go back? I am thinking these people are "others" on the outside.

#49. Posted by: BEMH at April 16, 2009 10:17 AM

seems no one noticed the bomb being buried next to the hatch. while hurley and miles watch the hatch being built, on the far right of the screen you see the top half of the bomb sticking out and that's whats encased in cement behind the wall with the electric magnetism they were all so curious about. That's what killed that guy in last nights episode also. The bombs magnetism pulled his filling straight thru his head. and when the numbers are not input kaboom....thats what brung them to the island!

#50. Posted by: jpeso at April 16, 2009 10:34 AM

I've come up with 10 references to SW. Some are a little more stretched (okay, a lot more stretched) than others.

1. The title "Some Like It Hoth"
2. Hurley's Jabba-esque-ness
3. "How do you spell 'Bounty Hunter'?"
4. Miles' mother dying/daddy issues (Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.) Certainly not unique to SW, but hey, I got an agenda here.
5. Hurley "writing" SW5: TESB (Entire conversation lumped into one)
6. Alvarez "fell into a pit" similar to Boba and the Sarlacc
7. Hurley and Miles physical resemblance and witty banter reminiscent of R2D2 and C3PO
8. I am convinced that Miles will be responsible for Chang losing his arm, so I'm including it here
9. Beehive-like construction of an "ultimate battle station"
10. Shutting down/sneaking past the force field

I left out the Boone/Shannon Luke/Leia macking reference because Boone & Shannon weren't in SLIH. But I'd pay handsomely to see Shannon in Leia's slave girl ensemble.

One more point I'd just like to throw out there: Was it just me or did the Dharma logo on Hurley's journal look a helluva lot like the Empire's uniform patch?

I do have a question regarding Alvarez' mishap. If it was a filling, and it was electro-magnetically caused, I thought fillings were made of silver and other non-magnetic metals. Why would a magnet cause a filling to shoot through somebody's brain pan?

I was just waiting for Horace to tell Miles, "I find your lack of faith disturbing..."

#51. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 16, 2009 10:39 AM

Re "Statuaries": Woohoo, I coined a new blog name. Yay me. Too bad I misspelled it in my first post. :) I threw a few extra letters in that made the word as confusing as the group itself.

****

@36, Crispy Seaplanes: "And when Hurley said Miles could go hold himself or change his own diaper I was totally thinking that would be "The Incident""

I was thinking similar thoughts. At the very least I was thinking "bad idea".


****
@39, lost2theworld: "Maybe Miles is the character that bites the dust this season, because he gets too close to himself."

"The" character that bites the dust this season? Charlotte not enough? Well, perhaps technically she bit the dust 30 odd seasons ago.

Miles setting off the Incident is a cool thought. Of course it would only strengthen my feeling that Miles has been put on the show for one reason only and is kind of neglected the rest of the time. Not good.


@43, PiecesofArzt: "I think Faraday told Dharma taht he was a theoretical scientist when they arrived in Dharmaville. This would explain his crazy futuristic thinking. He was then made into a recruiter and sent off the island in order to find more mad scientists."

Because all 'theoretical scientists' are crazy? Because the best way to utilize a scientist when researching the mysterious powers of a strange island is to sent him away as a recruiter? To get more 'mad scientists'? What would they do with them, send them away as well to recruit even more mad scientists? "We are the mad scientists. Resistance is futile. You will be recruited."

Sorry 'bout that, but this ridiculous notion that all scientists are weird crazy people is really something our world could do without. Media indoctrination be damned.

****

#52. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 16, 2009 10:43 AM

I got this from a twitter friend MattD: He said that 'Did you notice the Jedi mind trick Jack used on Roger?'

@PlainTruth: Did *gasp* Shannon shoot first?

LOL!

#53. Posted by: AbeFroman at April 16, 2009 10:53 AM

@51/ransomjackson:

I was just waiting for Horace to tell Miles, "I find your lack of faith disturbing..."

I love that! Or how about Jack saying to Juliet "Surely you understimate their chances" when discussing Kate and Sawyer bringing Ben to the Others to get saved.

#54. Posted by: BEMH at April 16, 2009 10:55 AM

The documents of the 815 crash faking, or similar ones came into Ben's hands. He showed them to Michael as proof of Widmore's involvement. Don't know what the relevance is. Did Ben fake it? Was the guy delivering Widmore doc's to Widmore? Ben docs to Wid? Other docs to Wid?

#55. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 10:55 AM

Clams got legs!

o~~~~~~

Yeah, I too was expecting/hoping the DeGroots would step off the submarine.

o~~~~~~

So who got the overs and unders on Star Wars references? They were coming fast and furious toward the end and I lost count.

o~~~~~~

So how many people in the LucasFilm security department got fired when George received that spec script?

o~~~~~~

Since fillings are made of a silver/mercury amagam, I'm wondering what made a magnet attact one.

o~~~~~~

Still the best, mac, but Ack is giving you a run for your money - at least in the humor department. Can't wait to see what she does with this one.

o~~~~~~

@41 mapache Said:

>I think miles' sarcasm really shadows sayers'.

Dorothy? Loved Lord Peter Wimsey. Wasn't aware she was famously sarcastic, though.

>BTW does anyone know how many episodes we've got left for this season???

I believe we're supposed to get 19 this season. Last night's was 13, which should leave six more and I'm hoping next week's clip show is not part of that count.

o~~~~~~

@mac

>To date (and if I'm remembering correctly), Miles and Walt are the only two characters who have built-in abilities.

John Locke's ability to predict rain? Admittedly, as super powers go, it ranks right up there with the ability to make things "Moist", but it has been remarked on from season one.

o~~~~~~

I'm still waiting for Miles to walk over the Paolikki graves and tell Hurley "Dude, what you did!"

o~~~~~~

THWTS

o~~~~~~
@Glostover

Score:

Big Island:

2008 - Benry, Locke (or someone/something Locke-like), Sun, Smokey, XChristian, X?Claire

1977 - Dharma (but no Greg), Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Juliet, Miles (twice), Jin, Daniel, assorted Others, Smokey, Jacob, Richard

Position, date unknown - Rose, Bernard, Vincent, any other surviving Losties than those mentioned above.

Hydra Island.

2008 (as far as we know) - Statuaries, Frank Lapidus, Caesar (mort), assorted other Ajira survivors, the mother of all crates

o~~~~~~

@34 ransomjackson said:

>With all the arm-chopping business, somehow Miles just HAS to be responsible for Chang's arm getting lopped. I got a dollar that says so.

But Widmore was the fanatical arm-chopper.

o~~~~~~

@49 BEMH asked:

>Was the dead body an Other or Darma?

Clearly Dharma. Working on the Swan station construction.

>Are those Darma who are "in the circle of trust" working with the Others?

Seems to be those "In the Know" about Dharma's violating the truce by setting up research stations in forbodden territory.

>What exactly happened to kill that person? I thought he was shot, but after reading the posts and remembering Miles' conversation, his filling shot through his brain and killed him? Where was he digging? Was it too close to an electromagnetic field? Why were they so secretive about retrieving and hiding the body?

Remember the wall in the Swan station that attracted Jack's key? And when the numbers weren't entered the electromagnetism ran out of control and was destroying the station when Desmond turned the failsafe key? Obviously the electomagnetism ran out of control here (leaving aside for the moment the question of what in a filling could be attracted by magnetism) and extracted the filling right out through his head.

Probably leading to the installation of the Swan and its computer to 'control' it, complete with entry of "the numbers" every 108 minutes. Wouldn't it be ironic if "the numbers" turn out to be a random password copied from the hatchway's serial number? Of course this would contradict the "Lost Experience" revelation that the numbers were the constant coefficients of the terms of the Valenzetti Equation.

o~~~~~

@52 Plain Simple pointed out:


>"The" character that bites the dust this season? Charlotte not enough? Well, perhaps technically she bit the dust 30 odd seasons ago.

Or maybe, technically, thirty odd seasons from now.

#56. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 16, 2009 10:57 AM

Did any one else find Naomi's line about the many dead people 'residing' on the island to be strange...? in a, they are not quite dead' sort of way.. the wording and the way she paused seemed off, like there's more to this.

#57. Posted by: vintaag at April 16, 2009 10:58 AM

'Hoth in the City...Hoth in the City tonight!'

'Feeling Hoth, Hoth, Hoth....da-na-na-na-na-na-na....Feeling Hoth, Hoth, Hoth.'

'This is why I'm Hoth....This is why I'm Hoth....This is why-This is why-This is why I'm Hoth.'

'Hoth blooded...check it and see...I've got a fever of 103...Hoth blooded, I'm Hoth blooded.'

'Got it made, got it made, got it made....I'm Hoth for teacher!'

-hilarious episode...when I threw out that Chang was Miles' Dad before it happened my fiance thought I was a genius...me smart.

#58. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 16, 2009 10:58 AM

@47, August Paul: "Quick question for anyone out there. When Faraday goes away in the sub, when does he go to? If he goes to 1977, then that implies that the island and earth are in synchronization."

I think everything we've seen so far ---Dharma coming and going, Others coming and going, including Juliet, O6 leaving--- suggests that when you leave the Island via the non-donkey wheel way you end up (roughly) in the same time as the island is in.

"Miles said he recognized his mother as someone standing three people behind him. When was that, or did I hear that wrong?"

According to Miles three days after the arrived in Dharmaville he saw his mother in line for lunch or something.

****


@51, ransomjackson: "Why would a magnet cause a filling to shoot through somebody's brain pan?"

It is odd, isn't it. If the field is strong enough though it might magnetize the silver. Of course, in order to have the silver filling turn into a silver bullet (was this guy a vampire?) the field has to be ridiculously strong, if it's possible at all. But then again, we know it is from past episodes. You have to wonder though how they could ever construct the Swan around it if the field is so strong. Perhaps it is only very strong very locally around the bomb.

An otherl question here is, why would a leaking H-bomb cause a strong magnetic field? Or is it the interaction of the leaking bomb with the exotic matter of the Island that's doing the trick?

#59. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 16, 2009 10:59 AM

Watching some of the tv specials about subatomic particles that appear out of nowhere in supercollider experiments then disappear again. Then the guys doing these experiments present it as proof saying the particles are going to/coming from alternate universes. Then they thoerize that since in the Big Bang our universe came from something subatomic in size that there may be tiny invisible to the naked eye alternate universes just floating around, maybe right through our living rooms as we watch Lost.
Sure sounds crazy. I'm thinking the great scientists probably have to be a little crazy to think as far outside the box as they do and come up with therories and discover things outside the realm of conventional "wisdom".
When all people accept the fact that the world is flat and some crazy guy comes along suggesting other wise, imprtant discoveries are made. So I'm thinking that yes the best scientists are pretty out there...but they have to be that way or we'd never find out anything new. Much like all the best artists are pretty out there...
So in my way of thinking saying these scientists are a bit crazy isn't necessarily a negative thing.

My guess is that Faraday wasn't out recruiting so much as working with the bigwigs in Ann Arbor trying to make sense of the information discovered in experiments on island. Generally it seems to me that many scientists do work in the field then they go back to some main lab for analysis.

#60. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 16, 2009 11:04 AM

O.K. her it goes...

"RansomJacksonIsTheBomb"

... or at the very least you get an "A" for effort, my friend.

@ 52. Posted by: Plain Simple

"The" character that bites the dust this season? Charlotte not enough?

A few weeks back (after episode TPID) it leaked that "a major character" would die before the end of the season. There was a lot of speculation that it may be Kate or Hurley. I, too, think it would be cool to set off the incident this way. I would be sad to see TPTB not use the Miles to his full, snarky potentional before it happens though.

#61. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 11:05 AM

@55 mtncbn pondered:

>The documents of the 815 crash faking, or similar ones came into Ben's hands. He showed them to Michael as proof of Widmore's involvement. Don't know what the relevance is. Did Ben fake it? Was the guy delivering Widmore doc's to Widmore? Ben docs to Wid? Other docs to Wid?

We saw Ben's group - through Tom's mouth, speaking to Michael - blamed Widmore for the fake crash.

Widmore's group - through the freighter captain speaking to Sayid and
Desmond - contended Ben had done the faking.

At the time, I thought that one of them was lying, but now the Statuaries seem to imply the existence of a third force unknown to the other two. Perhaps they were the ones that created the fake Oceanic 815? It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Speculation: The US Gov't still looking for its missing H-Bomb?

#62. Posted by: Cecil at April 16, 2009 11:07 AM

Technical detail: Diamagnetism is real world force. Some materials are repelled by extreme magnetic force. Pyrolitic graphite, bismuth, gold, and silver are some of the top materials exhibiting this. This would explain a gold filling going out the top of Alverez's head.

#63. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 11:16 AM

RE: Filling shooting through that dude's head.

Just a point of clarification, but wouldn't the island have to give off some sort of reverse magnetism for the filling to shoot 'up and out' of the dude's mouth? Maybe like the hatch door from the Swan getting shot up into the sky. A magnetic pull would yank the filling down & out of his jaw line or whatever. Unless of course the dude was standing on his head.

Am I correct on this one?

#64. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 16, 2009 11:16 AM

@56. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Admittedly, as super powers go, it ranks right up there with the ability to make things "Moist", but it has been remarked on from season one.

I don't know Cecil...I'm pretty fond of guys that have the power to make things moist..;-) Sorry, couldn't resist. I think I'm blushing!

@58 R...N...M LOL!

#65. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 11:17 AM

The guy who asked miles not to accept Widmore's offer is the same guys who was holding the gun behind Ilana when she asked the pilot the riddle, so it is the same group.

#66. Posted by: Whaaaa?? at April 16, 2009 11:26 AM

As far as super powers go, Hurley mentions himself in this episode as able to see dead people. Sometimes it comes across as part of Hurley's mental problems but he seems to be able to interact with formerly alive people much the way Locke does with Christian. So Locke and hurley definitely belong in the Super Friends along with Miles and Walt.

And if Locke is the person with the ability to make things moist then he must be Zan--"Form of a Bucket of Water! Hey Gleek--carry me!"

#67. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 16, 2009 11:28 AM

@ 29. Posted by: Crispy

"Are the Statuaries the same group that was chasing Sayid and shot him with the tranq darts?"


Nice! I like this theory. It does make sense. They would also be the same people who were sitting outside Hurley's mental "hotel" - right? Makes sense to me - they go after Miles who can hear dead people and Hurley who can see them (or maybe that part's not entirely accurate!)

Love the reviews, comments and all the interesting ideas! :-)

#68. Posted by: addicted2lost at April 16, 2009 11:28 AM

@52/Plain Simple: You have to admit that Faraday is a little squirrely. His research was so out there that he had to hide it from 'proper' university officials at Oxford. So as a recruiter he would be able to talk to other scientists that are also on the Fringe. As a believer, new scientists would be more comfortable with him and more willing to go to some island in the middle fo the ocean in order to further their ideas.
I wasn't trying to belittle all scientists as 'crazy'. I was just pointing out the fact that if Faraday came up to you with notions of time travel and constants, that most people would think he was nuts.

#69. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at April 16, 2009 11:35 AM

@67/Crispy Seaplanes: That was "Form of an ICE bucket!" so Zan could carry Gleek. Jayna would then turn into a hawk/eagle in order to carry the both of them. I watched a lot of cartoons when I was a kid.

#70. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at April 16, 2009 11:39 AM

@61, lost2theworld
Please, please, please don't get my hopes up that Kate might die. Her "acting" has been killing me for years. I can't take that kind of disappointment.

Speaking of disappointment- not loving this episode but loving Hurley. Almost snarfed my Sauvignon Blanc when he called Chang a douche...the perfect descriptor btw.

I really need some closure on the Aaron thing. Didn't the psychic tell Claire that she must raise Aaron? I must know why. Will he be a serial killer otherwise? Is he the key to saving the island and/or mankind? Will he help his grandma find a rat to gnaw the mole off of her face? (Wow! That's pretty mean, but John Candy did say it first.) I can't believe that we're done with that little dude yet.

Finally, you people enable my nerdy tendnecies and I thank you. Star Wars, BSG, this show: I'm not the only geek out there...now if somebody would just tell my high school students.

#71. Posted by: lardiea at April 16, 2009 11:47 AM

@57/vintaag

"Did any one else find Naomi's line about the many dead people 'residing' on the island to be strange...?"

I agree and noticed this too. I even paused and rewound that part to be sure I got it right. How can the dead be residing? Another reference to reincarnation.

@58/Red...Neck...Man

My hips were swinging with all your "hoth" songs. Ahh, spring is here!

#72. Posted by: BEMH at April 16, 2009 11:51 AM

46. Posted by: JoePike

Yeah, You are right about the sequence in SW.
44444444444444444444444444444444
50. Posted by: jpeso
seems no one noticed the bomb being buried next to the hatch.

I did not see this in the show and looked at some screencaps but still don't?

Anyway, Wouldn't you think the others would know what's going on? I mean can you actually hide a huge construction project like that? Makes a lot of noise getitng that big crane through the jungle. And did it come as a kit? How do you get that on a sub?

Wouldn't the others be monitoring the bomb? Or watching their territory? What about Smokey? I thought he prowled the others territory. Some security system.
Do the DI know that it's there?
Do they know why it was put there?
Did Faraday tell them?
Why would they risk digging it up a leaking atomic bomb?
Maybe this is the incident.

#73. Posted by: berkyo at April 16, 2009 11:58 AM

Question:
Does Roger(Uncle Rico)Linus finaly get to time travel and win the state championship for his high school?
I bet he could throw a football all the way over to the Hydra.

#74. Posted by: jst at April 16, 2009 12:01 PM

GRAA, Mac. More best lines:

Miles, explaining why he's driving the van and not Sawyer: "I'm in the Circle of Trust."

Then later, Miles explains to Hurley that he and Dr. Chang don't travel in the same circles. Dr. Chang says, "I wasn't aware of any circles."

Hurley suggests that he and Miles carpool to "prevent global warming, which hasn't happened yet."

Hurley asks if Dr Chang's "stage name" was Marvin Candle.

Hurley says he needs spellcheck when Miles was reading his script.

BTW: Thanks, RNM, for the early morning chuckles at #58.

#75. Posted by: lovelost at April 16, 2009 12:41 PM

@71 lardiea

Sorry to get your hopes up. Supposedly Evangeline Lilly's camp denied the rumor and I'm pretty sure that she said in an EW article that she was in it until the end. Never hurts to pray though, right?

#76. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 12:41 PM

@67 Crispy Seaplanes misconstrued:

>And if Locke is the person with the ability to make things moist then he must be Zan--"Form of a Bucket of Water! Hey Gleek--carry me!"

No, Locke's ability is *predicting* rain, not making it rain.

"Moist" is Dr. Horrible's henchman - see:

http://tinyurl.com/5e9zeu

#77. Posted by: Cecil at April 16, 2009 12:43 PM

@ 74. Posted by: jst

"Question:
Does Roger(Uncle Rico)Linus finaly get to time travel and win the state championship for his high school?
I bet he could throw a football all the way over to the Hydra."

Literally LMAO!!! Sweet!!

#78. Posted by: addicted2lost at April 16, 2009 12:45 PM

@ 74. Posted by: jst

"Question:
Does Roger(Uncle Rico)Linus finaly get to time travel and win the state championship for his high school?
I bet he could throw a football all the way over to the Hydra."

Love the Napoleon Dynamite reference! ROFLMAO!

#79. Posted by: Arionis at April 16, 2009 12:50 PM

Entertaining episode for sure.

*****

Gotta give Kate a little slack. Someone had to start the script that unravels Sawyer's long con.

*****

Another good line from Miles to Hurley-- "let's see what's inside that piece of granite you call a head".

*****

...and nice right cross from Jim Lefleur.
Reminded me of Foreman bouncing Frasier around the ring like a basketball in round 1.

#80. Posted by: IslandHopper at April 16, 2009 12:52 PM

@72 BEMH quoted:

>Ahh, spring is here!

Spring is here, spring is here.
Life is skittles and life is beer,
I think the loveliest time of the year is the spring.
I do, don't you? 'Course you do.

But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me,
And makes ev'ry Sunday a treat for me.

All the world seems in tune
On a spring afternoon,
When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.
Ev'ry Sunday you'll see
My sweetheart and me,
As we poison the pigeons in the park.

When they see us coming, the birdies all try an' hide,
But they still go for peanuts when coated with cyanide.
The sun's shining bright,
Ev'rything seems all right,
When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

Lalaalaalalaladoodiedieedoodoodoo

We've gained notoriety,
And caused much anxiety
In the Audubon Society
With our games.

They call it impiety,
And lack of propriety,
And quite a variety
Of unpleasant names.

But it's not against any religion
To want to dispose of a pigeon.

So if Sunday you're free,
Why don't you come with me,
And we'll poison the pigeons in the park.
And maybe we'll do
In a squirrel or two,
While we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We'll murder them all amid laughter and merriment.
Except for the few we take home to experiment.

My pulse will be quickenin'
With each drop of strychnine
We feed to a pigeon.
It just takes a smidgen!
To poison a pigeon in the park.

#81. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 16, 2009 12:56 PM

→ 39. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 9:36 AM

I am thinking that Chang finds out that big Miles is his son from "teleHurley" and sends his wife and little Miles away to avoid another rabbit incident.

--That's a great idea. Obviously he couldn't tell his wife that grown up, hole-y faced Miles was on the island watching cute cooing baby Miles, so, he'd have to act pretty cold-hearted to send them away and convince them to leave. (She did say, "He kicked us out", I believe, not "he left us".) Maybe her hair was falling out by passing too close to Jughead...how's that for a stretch??

#82. Posted by: sandivon at April 16, 2009 1:09 PM

Random thought #1:
There was a past episode where there was a videotape (like a surveillance tape) showing Widmore whacking some guy outside a motel. (Not sure which season...but for some reason, Mr. Friendly showing it to Michael comes to mind to show him that Widmore is a bad dude and a way to get Michael onto the freighter. I could be completely way off on that one though. While I do follow the show, I haven't rewatched episodes. I just have a really bizarre and cool audio-visual semi-photographic memory.) I remember the angle of the view as being from above (from a balcony or something). When I first saw Bram, I was wondering if he was the guy Widmore had killed. Yet when Naomi showed Miles the body, I wonder if that was the guy instead.

Random thought #2:
Maybe Eloise Hawking is involved with the Statuaries. While I do believe that she is Faraday's mum and was the gun-toting Eli in Jughead, I am not completely sold that she and Widmore have the same agendas. She would certainly know about the statue (if that is, in fact, what the statue in the code phrase refers to).


#83. Posted by: Gumbo at April 16, 2009 1:23 PM

Wait a second ... I just looked at the pics of the SWAN construction here:
http://is.gd/sNdQ

There's no Jughead bomb. If I'm missing it, let me know. But I don't see it.

So we still don't know *where* they buried the bomb, right?

Now I'm back to the theory that the bomb is what "lies in the shadow of the statue".

#84. Posted by: DCDude at April 16, 2009 1:25 PM

I am thinking that Chang finds out that big Miles is his son from "teleHurley" and sends his wife and little Miles away to avoid another rabbit incident.
→ 39. Posted by: lost2theworld

Or...Hurley tells Chang about The Purge and he compassionately expels Mom and Baby, in order to save them. That wouldn't explain the mother's animosity, unless the Doc didn't/couldn't tell her the real reason. Or as Mac suggested, she has an agenda of her own.

#85. Posted by: lovelost at April 16, 2009 1:31 PM

Great review MAC

Best line for me: Hurley--"Maybe you can change your own diaper" TOO Funny. ANd "that guy's a douche." "That douche is my dad!"

I think that Miles or whoever is in the 'cirle of trust' gets the dead bodies up to the Orchid so Chang and his henchman can use them for time travel experiments.

Could someone who has DVR please post what was written on the blackboard that Jack was cleaning. It may offer us some more (mis)leading Egyptian clues.

Now it makes sense to me as to why Ilana and her crew did not detain Ben on the beach. They don't work for Widmore!! Do they work for Ben??? If I think back on the convo he had with her on the beach last week it seemed different somehow. I don't know. If it's another group introduced into the whole storyline now it may be too much.

Maybe Miles' Mom is dying of cancer due to radiation poisoning from the H bomb. Chang sent them away after the incident which had to have something to do with jughead.

#86. Posted by: benlinusrocks at April 16, 2009 1:38 PM

This show causes me to learn lots.
Bismuth and antimony have also been used in amalgam fillings, as well as mercury and silver. Amalgam may be more diamagnetic than gold, which was news to me. A table of diamagnetic properties:

pyrolytic graphite -59.5
bismuth -16.6
antimony -7.3
mercury -2.9
gold -2.8
silver -2.3
diamond -2.2
lead -1.8
table salt -1.4
copper -0.98
water -0.9
soft human tissue -.089

By the by, frogs and people will float in a strong enough magnetic field!!

RNM - in regard to your #64, did you see my #63?

#87. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 1:43 PM

Hmmmmm....pondering the whole "did they know a new sub was coming?" question....I noticed that Daniel was wearing the black Dharma jumpsuit, same as the Dharmites working on the hatch in Other territory. This faction of Dharma seems pretty shady/scary/secretive to me, especially considering Radzinsky's creepiness. I also noticed that these black suited Dharmites get into some sort of gun battle with khaki Dharmites in the next new episode according to the coming attractions. So, no, I don't think it was a run of the mill sub arrival. I think maybe the black suited Dharmites and the "Shadow of the Statue" Statuaries are connected somehow....

#88. Posted by: Vikki at April 16, 2009 1:45 PM

Screen caps of the Dharma Egyptian blackboard lesson are here:

http://is.gd/sNuJ

#89. Posted by: DCDude at April 16, 2009 1:47 PM

Opps, soft human tissue= 0.89. If anyone cares.

#90. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 1:50 PM

Thanks Mac for the review. I always spend a good chunk of my Thursdays reading people's posts.

I expected to be disappointed by this episode, but liked it more than I thought. Something struck me were the children of the island. We were given an aeriel view of a few houses showing 2 or 3 swingsets, not one as I previously though existed. It made me think that there is probably more children on the island then realized. Secondly, the school seemed awfully big before the # of kids on the island that we've seen. Does anyone think that several more characters where born on the island. Libby? Daniel? Walt's mom? Not a sure what it means but maybe even Christian Shepphard? Not quite the right age, but they did make a point of showing Grandpa.
Secondly, what did Miles say before the pushed him out of the van. My brain is incapable of grasping it. It sounded like "isn't that (somebody's name)?" but I could be wrong.

#91. Posted by: EAK at April 16, 2009 1:56 PM

I was actually bugged by the solar path lighting in front of Sawyer's place... in the 1970s! Timeline continuity error!

If Charlotte died on the island - will she be back too?

I'm surprised Hurley didn't make some comment about Princess Leia in her Return of the Jedi bikini outfit or that he'd rather kiss a wookie!

I think Horace needs to go on a low-sodium diet. Doug Hutchison is looking a bit puffy these days...

#92. Posted by: Connie at April 16, 2009 2:23 PM

Thanks Cecil, for the "who's where."

RE: filling killing; Remember the "No...metal...objects...evahhhhh!" scene when Ben started putting all kinds of metal in the bay...maybe ALL metals are affected by this special electromagnetism, even supposedly non-conducting ones?
@87, Wow. Great research mountain cabin!


#93. Posted by: Glostover at April 16, 2009 2:35 PM

lost2theworld commented...

"The character that bites the dust this season?"

Not saying fer sure this is a spoiler, but didn't I read somewheres that Juliet (Liz - Yeah I call her Liz - Mitchell) has signed on to another show? I'm just wondering if she got a DUI...

And lost2theworld said "I'm pretty fond of guys that have the power to make things moist..;-) "

Ooooh...we're working blue now are we? Wrong blog...you want the My Name Is Earl blog right next door. That guy's got no shame...

Oh and BTW - Congrats to Ford/Sawyer/LaFleur/Holloway and his wife, Yessica. They just had a baby girl.

#94. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 16, 2009 2:38 PM

I thought this epi was pretty weak. Man, so many Kate-haters. I like Kate; she makes me "moist."

#95. Posted by: DJ Ativanex at April 16, 2009 3:18 PM

Love the "chew the mole off her face with a rat" reference from Uncle Buck...


Random thought #1:
There was a past episode where there was a videotape (like a surveillance tape) showing Widmore whacking some guy outside a motel. (Not sure which season...but for some reason, Mr. Friendly showing it to Michael comes to mind to show him that Widmore is a bad dude and a way to get Michael onto the freighter. I could be completely way off on that one though. While I do follow the show, I haven't rewatched episodes. I just have a really bizarre and cool audio-visual semi-photographic memory.) I remember the angle of the view as being from above (from a balcony or something). When I first saw Bram, I was wondering if he was the guy Widmore had killed. Yet when Naomi showed Miles the body, I wonder if that was the guy instead.

Random thought #2:
Maybe Eloise Hawking is involved with the Statuaries. While I do believe that she is Faraday's mum and was the gun-toting Eli in Jughead, I am not completely sold that she and Widmore have the same agendas. She would certainly know about the statue (if that is, in fact, what the statue in the code phrase refers to).


#96. Posted by: Gumbo at April 16, 2009 3:22 PM

woops...sorry for the double post. my PC went a bit screwy.

#97. Posted by: Gumbo at April 16, 2009 3:26 PM

@83 Gumbo remembered:

>There was a past episode where there was a videotape (like a surveillance tape) showing Widmore whacking some guy outside a motel. (Not sure which season...but for some reason, Mr. Friendly showing it to Michael comes to mind to show him that Widmore is a bad dude and a way to get Michael onto the freighter.

No, that was the one which Ben 'taped over the Red Sox' Linus showed to John Locke to show him who had hired the freighter folks. Kept in a wall safe in Ben's house in Bennsylvania.

#98. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 16, 2009 3:34 PM

About the dead guy with the filling. Surely he was not the only person working at the job site with a filling or piece of metal? didn't someone else at least have a wedding band on? why weren't they effected?

#99. Posted by: Skipper at April 16, 2009 3:45 PM

@94. Posted by: ransomjackson

didn't I read somewheres that Juliet (Liz - Yeah I call her Liz - Mitchell) has signed on to another show?

I remember hearing that too. It very well could be her. Although, I still think Juliet is holding a lot back. Maybe she will just have a much more limited role next year once a "secret agenda" is revealed and she returns to the "dark side of the force."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and also @94. Posted by: ransomjackson

Ooooh...we're working blue now are we?

My sincere apologies to anyone with a delicate nature. It was just such an obvious, wonderfully obnoxious comment that I couldn't control my bad twin. I promise to stay far away from off color comments from now on. No more blue from me!

#100. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 3:47 PM

URGH! Remind me not to take a class for a week and miss out on reading posts. It takes FOREVER to catch up! I thought I was getting close when I finally got to this week's posts and read through 38 this morning, hit the refresh button and now it's at 100! Oy, I'll be caught up before the seasons over maybe.

I'll read up before commenting...

#101. Posted by: LostedIt at April 16, 2009 3:52 PM

thanks Cecil

#102. Posted by: Gumbo at April 16, 2009 3:55 PM

@ DCDude 84 & 89

Thanks for the screen caps. My only thought on the picture of the construction of the Swan is that there seem to be several shafts that lead down somewhere. (You can see scaffolding built around them.) Since they are working on the hatch door, could we be seeing the end stages of construction and the bomb is already well buried below?

#103. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 16, 2009 3:56 PM

@103 lost2theworld:

My presumption is that the bomb was buried in 1954. Now it's 23 years later, and the Swan - we were told - was situated to study a "unique source of electromagnetism". Whether this has anything to do with the bomb is unknown.

#104. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 16, 2009 4:04 PM

Ok, regarding the videotape that the worker brings to Sawyer, who's to say it actually shows anything that he/they did? Perhaps it only shows dead space on the tape where there should be a recording and the guy came to the conclusion that only Sawyer/LeFleur could have pulled that off.

I agree that Roger Linus is an @ss and am glad a Kate/Roger thing didn't develop so for that much I'm glad he's still and @ss. Kate only saw one side of him until that point. Glad this zebra finally showed his stripes.

I like the idea that Miles becomes at least the one responsible for his dad losing his arm or even the one that does the deed. Perhaps that's what the whole Star Wars reference was alluding to. Maybe the "incident" involves Dr. Chang cutting his own arm off to save his son? I've still got bets on the bomb being involved, though an explosion or something similar from a future person touching their past self I'll buy into.

Seriously, what the heck is going on with them bringing dead people to the under-construction station? Does it run on lost souls or something? BTW, someone speculated on a line of thought about why the Others want their dead back. I find it interesting about the implication that perhaps the Others bring the bodies to the Temple to be rejuvenated in some way, or perhaps incorporated. Either way, it's worth further discussion.

So I suppose now we'll finally find out what happened to Farraday. Perhaps this all ties in to the Comic-Con 2008 Lost video?

Hurley is never going to last hiding any piece of information, especially about the dead body(ies).

The people on flight 316 apparently are plants. I thought it was by Widmore but apparently not. It does seem that there is a third faction that might have been responsible all of this time for some of the things going on that both Ben and Widmore blamed each other for. The dead guy who had had photos of the empty graves and the receipt for a plane, did Miles say the receipt was in Widmore's name or just that he was heading to talk to Widmore about it?

BTW, I have to admit I was strongly in the camp of "no way that Dr. Chang's son is Miles". I now have the taste of shoe and hat in my mouth at the moment.

I think the Dharma initiative is a big hypocrite's convention the way they have dirty secrets and their secret station(s) and tricking people to come work menial jobs instead of promising careers they were promised, all of that. It's just distressing that a group professing to be such a force of good and Utopian goals could be so much like, perhaps even worse than, any corporation back in the real world.

Ok, enough for the moment. More soon.

#105. Posted by: LostedIt at April 16, 2009 4:39 PM

So, in the preview for the next new ep, it said that sides will have to be chosen, this I find very interesting.
I guess that the guys back in '77 aren't really worried about getting back (why should they? They all die in the purge...)

#106. Posted by: Jordan at April 16, 2009 5:29 PM


@31 - Sta Tabs have been around since 1975 - no continuity error there.

Did anyone notice that Dr. Chang was reading baby Miles a kids book about Polar Bears? Awww...

In keeping with recent time travel discussions, has anyone realized the irony that baby Miles could be saved from the thing that kills grown up Miles?

Seems like Miles needs bodies to communicate with as well, as shown by his inability to speak to cremated guy...I wonder if he'll spend any quality time at the Pit O' Bodies?

@84 - I agree with DCDude that "what lies in the shadow of the statue" is Jughead - as I posted in the previous thread, I don't know why, but I do - I also think the Statuaries are after it and brought equipment with them.

#107. Posted by: Caelum at April 16, 2009 5:39 PM

GRAA Mac!

Love Hurley and Miles conversations and their character dynamic.

@ Mac
"Dr. Chang has no time for silly zoological experiments. He calls the polar bear experiments "ridiculous." Put another way: time travel = varsity; bears = JV."

Haha, good one!

"Fifth Best Line: "Chewbacca ... rowwrrrr" -- Miles, reading from Hurley's "Empire Strikes Back" draft."

LOVED THAT PART!!!

I couldn't stop laughing. Aahahahaha.

Someone or many may have said this already -- but -- maybe Chang leaves Miles and his mom because older miles scared him away by telling him everything.

What was up with the gray hair. I thought they did that this season to show that Miles is getting older maybe from time skipping but apparently he had it when he was "younger" or "off-island" as well!

Jack also has a lot of gray hair but he's old and breathes weird so it's understandable.

3 months at 1977 -- that means in 2004 Miles would have only been 27.

Kate is an idiot. I thought that maybe she and Roger would become good friends. Would have been ironic, but verrry funny!

Apparently the chalkboard indicated that they were teaching little dharma kids about Egyptian Heiroglyphics?

Found some screenshots of the chalkboard here: http://tinyurl.com/clgg9b

#108. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 6:51 PM

YAY I got 108!!! =]

#109. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 7:01 PM

Long time reader, first time poster.

Have not read this mentioned yet but in the opening scene when the landlord is showing Miles' mother the microwave in the apartment, the reading on the console is 03:16 (ie. obvious reference to Ajira Airways flight 316).

#110. Posted by: teekay at April 16, 2009 7:37 PM

ost2theworld and others commented...

"The character that bites the dust this season?"

I hope it's not Juliette. I like her. I don't find her smirk irritating and Sawyer seems so happy now.

444444444444444444444

Yes, thanks to Mac and posters for the screen caps site.Looks like pre ancient Egypt might be involved.

8888888888888888888888

#111. Posted by: berkyo at April 16, 2009 7:53 PM

I'm quite behind. I thought I'd be all over last week's epsiode since it was about Ben but I think I only went on it once! Tsk tsk.

@ needmorelost - 13
"I think that the man from the "other side" that spoke to Miles in the van is the same man w/ Ilana last week asking about the shadow of the statue. He was on the Ajira flight that recently crashed."

Yes, I noticed the same thing! [Or I was thinking the same thing when they showed him.] Welcome by the way!

We love people who love us! =]

#112. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 8:24 PM

@ davidrh - 20
"Looking forward to all the comments because there were a LOT of funny lines last night!"

Not to say them all at once but...
[Don't read if it'll kill it for you]

From lostpedia transcripts:

MILES: "Exterior--Hoth. A little spy robot thingy zips through the atmosphere and crashes into the snowy planet below. That's when Chewbacca shows up and blasts it away with his crossbow laser. He shakes his fury fist in the sky in triumph. Chewbacca--Raaar."

HURLEY: It's "furry." "Furry fist." I need to spell-check it.
_____________

HURLEY: That was Luke's attitude, too.

MILES: What?

HURLEY: In Empire, Luke found out Vader was his father, but instead of putting away his lightsaber and talking about it, he overreacted and got his hand cut off.

HURLEY: I mean, they worked it out eventually, but at what cost? Another Death Star was destroyed, Boba Fett got eaten by the Sarlacc, and we got the Ewoks. It all could've been avoided if they'd just, you know, communicated. And let's face it. The Ewoks sucked, dude.
_________________

HURLEY: Dude... did you just... you know?

MILES: What?

HURLEY: You know. It stinks. Did you...

MILES: No.

HURLEY: Well, it wasn't me.

MILES: So roll down your window.

HURLEY: Nah, man, there's something foul in here. It's coming from back there.

MILES: Maybe it's your famous garlic mayo.
_______________

HURLEY: Dude, there's a body bag back here. There's a body in it.

MILES: That's traditionally what you put in a body bag.
_______________

HURLEY: You can talk to dead people.

MILES: Can we please just go?

HURLEY: Don't worry, dude. Your secret's safe with me. You wanna know why?

MILES: No.

HURLEY: 'Cause I can talk to 'em, too.
_______________

HURLEY: I don't know why you just won't admit it. You can trust me. I talk to lots of dead people.

MILES: So you have conversations with them, like they're your pals?

HURLEY: Sure, all the time. Sometimes we even play chess.
________________

HURLEY: Aha! You wouldn't know how it works unless you can do it.

MILES: What I can do has nothing to do with chatting with ghosts, you nitwit. It's a feeling, a sense. When somebody's dead, their brain stops functioning, which means there's no more talking. There's just who they were and whatever they knew before they died.

HURLEY: That's how it works for me.

MILES: Great. I'm happy for you.

HURLEY: You're just jealous my powers are better than yours.

MILES: We're here. Now shut the hell up and deliver your damn sandwiches.
________________

HURLEY: Are you kidding me? How weird is it that your dad is that dude from all those movies? Only back then, he was called Marvin Candle. Was that, like, a stage name?

MILES: What part of "I don't want to talk about it" isn't sinking in?
_________________

DR. CHANG: I need you to take me to Radzinsky at the work site immediately. You... Hurley--you say a word...

HURLEY: Polar bear poop. Got it.
_________________

MAN IN VAN: Miles, my name's Bram.

MILES: You owe me a fish taco.
_________________

HURLEY: So I'm new here, Dr. Chang. What is it exactly you do at the Orchid?

DR. CHANG: It's classified.

HURLEY: Oh, really? You can't tell anyone? Not even your wife?

DR. CHANG: No.

HURLEY: What about your kids?

DR. CHANG: I have a 3-month-old son, so, no, I haven't told him.

HURLEY: 3 months? Wow! Congrats. What's his name?

DR. CHANG: Miles.

HURLEY: Small world. That's your name, too. Right, Miles?

MILES: Yeah.

HURLEY: So are you a fan of jazz, Dr. Chang? Like Miles Davis?

DR. CHANG: My wife is. I like country.

[Miles looks away incredulously.]

HURLEY: So you two have been here for... three years now. Must be pretty tight, huh?

MILES: Dr. Chang and I... don't exactly travel in the same circles.

DR. CHANG: I wasn't aware there were circles.

HURLEY: Great. We should all... get together for a beer sometime. How awesome would that be?

DR. CHANG: Stop here.

#113. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 8:30 PM

Maybe baby Miles was named after grown up Miles?

#114. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 8:30 PM

We should make a list of all our favorite LOST. quotes... kinda like the Lost Blog Acronymn thing.

#115. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 8:34 PM

"Gotta give Kate a little slack. Someone had to start the script that unravels Sawyer's long con."

Well, to be fair, it was Sayid who started the whole mess in the first place by shooting the kid. And if Jack hadn't refused to help, they likely never would have had to take him out of the infirmary.

And how was Kate supposed to know Roger would freak out over a few words of sympathy? Like a previous poster said, she'd only seen the nicer side of him up until that point. No wonder she fumbled so badly, she was completely blindsided. I bet she had to put up with that from Wayne, too.

#116. Posted by: Corvus at April 16, 2009 8:57 PM

@ Cecil Rose - 56
"I'm still waiting for Miles to walk over the Paolikki graves and tell Hurley "Dude, what you did!""

YEAH. Nice one.

RANDOM THOUGHT:
My parents are thinking about getting a dog. I plan to name him BENRY. =]

#117. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 16, 2009 9:01 PM

GRAA, Mac. Five points...

(1) If the Statuaries aren't working for Eloise, they've got the Lampost bugged. Illyana's probably not a new recruit b/c she ordered Bram to hit Lapidus.

(2) In the Old Testament, "Jacob" was another name for the nation of Israel, taken captive in Egypt. I'm wondering if TPTB see this as a parallel to the Egyptian Island keeping Jacob trapped in his cabin?

(3) If Jacob & Smokey are at odds, then Locke could be like Moses - coveted as a prince of Egypt, but destined to free the captive Jacob, whom [Carl was assured] God loves.

(4) The blackboard screencap of Egyptian info mentions "God". That's an unusually monotheistic (capatilized) term for Egyptian mythology... isn't it?

(5) Come to think of it, neither Ben nor Charles nor Richard seem to really know very much about the Smoke monster OR about Jacob. So how are we supposed to guess what the relationship is between these two supposedly supernatural beings anyway?

No religious theories here. Just wondering what TPTB is going to make of it...

#118. Posted by: Bill at April 16, 2009 9:04 PM

Btw, on Hurley's paradox thinking...

Eloise once told Desmond the universe course corrects. Desmond saved Charlie a few times, so he DID change history - just not completely. Charlie still died, but not before he brought down the frequency jammer keeping Penny and the Freighter from finding the Island. Now, maybe the freighter folk were destined to get onto the Island somehow or another, but Desmond still changed the WAY that it happened.

As a matter of fact, I think Eloise had a flash of something horrible happening and needed to get Desmond NOT married in order to postpone (not prevent) that something. That's why she lost her cool and said, "Give me the s*****g ring!" And that's why she told Ben, "Then God help us all." In other words, Eloise is doing a "long con" version of what Des did with Charlie, but with much higher stakes.

The end point at the moment is that the Losties CAN modify details along the way. I don't know if changing Star Wars V counts or not, but I'm thinking Daniel's non-paradox theory is going to undergo revision at some point in the near future.

"See those red shoes?"

#119. Posted by: Bill at April 16, 2009 9:17 PM

@46/JoePike
@105/LostedIt
@113/ilovebenjaminlinusxx: "In Empire, Luke found out Vader was his father, but instead of putting away his lightsaber and talking about it, he overreacted and got his hand cut off."

Been very busy with work lately, but quite surprised no one suggested this yet (despite these posts referencing the hand/arm cutting) ... will Miles end up like Luke, with a missing appendage (arm/hand), to match his dad's? Will his dad end up being responsible directly/indirectly for said loppage?

@50/jpeso -
It's been addressed at some level already, but nuclear weapons do NOT contain magical magnetic properties ... I do not think Jughead is buried at the Swan. But I DO think Jughead will be involved with the incident ...

One more comment for now ... I know it means nothing, but ...

Did anyone else notice Kate/Roger opening their beer cans? Prop error ... cans had removable pull-tabs back then, not the pull-up/push-down tabs found on modern cans, as shown in the scene.

I know it's a major nit-pick, but these things annoy me when I'm trying to suspend disbelief in general already ... ;)

#120. Posted by: ealgumby at April 16, 2009 9:29 PM

Oh ... one more thing I almost forgot ...

I think it's fair to assume Miles' mom didn't last long beyond his punked-out bedside scene with her ...

Couldn't he have learned what "really happened" by probing her dead body? Kinda morbid maybe, but find it hard to believe he wouldn't have done so (assuming she died before he got on the freighter, which seems a fair guess).

#121. Posted by: ealgumby at April 16, 2009 9:49 PM

Okay, a couple more things ...

How is it that Dharma could be building the Swan station in hostile territory without being noticed?

Why $1.6M? Why does Miles later ask for $3.2M from Ben, after previously asking that from Bram? Did he learn something from someone dead on the island that led him to associate Ben with Bram?

Did anyone else think the writers were poking fun at "us" by exposing Hurley's ham-fisted attempt at screen-writing? I kinda took it as "this is what you'll get if fans try writing ... 'Chewbacca ... rowwrrrr' ... not as easy as it looks." Fair enough ... yet not enough to keep me from bitch'n! ;)

#122. Posted by: ealgumby at April 16, 2009 10:09 PM

For me the best part of the episode was the end. In my opinion, Daniel and Desmond are the two most interesting characters on the show, and we have barely seen either this season. Although the performance Juliet puts on in the infirmary for Roger's sake and how she nonchalantly turns back to Kate and says "Well, here we go," puts Juliet in a strong running for third.

Clip shows suck. See ya'll in two weeks! And of course, GRAA, Mac!

#123. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 16, 2009 11:16 PM

→ 120. Posted by: ealgumby
Did anyone else notice Kate/Roger opening their beer cans? Prop error ... cans had removable pull-tabs back then, not the pull-up/push-down tabs found on modern cans, as shown in the scene.

I know it's a major nit-pick, but these things annoy me when I'm trying to suspend disbelief in general already ... ;)
>It took a lot of searching, gave up earlier. Non pull tab(old style removable pull tabs) got replaced with the new style about 1973 or 1974. Searched for 'timeline pop top can'

#124. Posted by: mtncbn at April 16, 2009 11:22 PM

NAOMI: This island has a number of deceased individuals... residing on it, and as this man is the one responsible for their being deceased, we believe they can supply invaluable information as to his whereabouts.

My feeling is that "the one responsible" is not Ben, as Keamy's team had no problem tracking him to the barracks and later the Orchid.

Perhaps Naomi was going to take Miles to the Dharma mass grave, where he would be asked to communicate with someone (Horace? Chang?) to get information on the real "responsible" person- perhaps Jacob?

If Jacob is dead or a spirit, then Miles value to the freighter team may also have been to communicate directly with Jacob, once Keamy removed Ben from the island.

*******

The Bunny theory requires some modification- you can look admiringly at your past self, but perhaps not come into direct contact. Forget the old cliche about going back in time to kill Hitler. What we really want to know- can an individual go back in time and change their own diaper?

This also sticks a fork in any speculation that Charlotte and Ben did not foom to 1974 because they were already there as children.

********

Lots of speculation on handling the dead, but didn't Horace want Chang to examine the body because they are trying to understand the unique energy underneath the Swan construction site? And wouldn't they then want to dispose of the body as quickly and quietly as possible, to prevent other workers from quitting on the spot?

As for the dead body given to Alpert in 1974, wasn't that to prove to the Others that Dharma had also lost a member in that scuffle, and therefore avoid an end to the truce and additional bloodshed?

**********

I have strong doubts from what we've seen that the Shadow/Statue group is affiliated with Ben- Ben is coldly calculating, while these people seem almost fanatical, with their code phrases and "we're going to win" determination.

If they're not affiliated with Ben and not with Widmore, that leaves either Hanso/Dharma (thirsting for revenge re: the purge?) or a new, 4th group we haven't seen yet.

I would be very surprised if the writers introduced a whole new entity at this point, so my money for now is on Hanso-Dharma. Most fantasy and sci-fi epics have clearly defined lines between good and evil, but in Lost, it's just one giant tangled ball of string.

*******

→ 119. Bill: "Desmond saved Charlie a few times, so he DID change history - just not completely."

and

"I think Eloise had a flash of something horrible happening and needed to get Desmond NOT married in order to postpone (not prevent) that something."

If Desmond gets married to Penny, he doesn't go to the island, he doesn't step in and push the button when Kelvin starts to lose it, Oceanic never crashes, and everything we've seen changes. Her interaction with Desmond was intended to make sure events DID happen as needed, not the other way around.

In the same way, it appears Charlie was always destined to die in the Looking Glass for events to play out as necessary. If so, then Desmond wasn't changing history- he was making sure history happened correctly by removing variables (lightning strike, drowning accident, arrow through neck while discussing DC comic book heroes, etc). Essentially, Des was a human "course correction" to ensure Charlie was in the place he needed to be.

#125. Posted by: Mizzed at April 17, 2009 12:48 AM

@124/mtncbn: "Non pull tab(old style removable pull tabs) got replaced with the new style about 1973 or 1974. Searched for 'timeline pop top can'"

Oh, my dear friend, that is so not true ...

I know this, as fact, for several reasons ...

First of all, my dad was a chief engineer at the Milwaukee Schlitz Brewery until the late 70's ... honest to God, he designed and has the patent for the keg "debunging/bunging" machine used by all major modern breweries today, along with several other major canning/bottling mechanism innovations.

This, of course, means nothing by itself ... except that I was avidly collecting beer cans at the time (close to 1000 when I quit), and regularly got experimental/irregular cans from my dad for keep/trade. As I sit here, I hold in my hands "The Universal Beer Can Collector's Guide," Midland Litho Print, Appleton, WI, 1975. In this guide, there is NO mention of the pull/push can tops in use today ... and I can positively confirm (anecdotally if you insist, but I would seriously bet my life on it!) that these cans did NOT exist back then!

Let me waste more of your time, and tell you a little story about beer cans (and if you're still reading, but are understandably interested only in Lost, then please, bail out now ... it only gets deeper!)

Coors first introduced "pop-top" (or to the non-collecting community, "push-button") cans in 1974 (and if you don't know what I'm talking about ... I mean a can with two circular "buttons" on the can top [one big, one small], which were pushed to drink from the can [big button for drinkin', lil' button for air, duh!] ... NOT what much-reviled "can babies" incorrectly refer to as the "pop-top" ... i.e., any variation of the current popular design).

Interestingly (maybe?), Schlitz contemplated both "Light Beer" AND the "pop-top" can circa the date of my collectors' book. My dad was involved with a test-run of the Milwaukee line for the proposed new beer about this time, and he brought home dozens of "dummy" cans (no beer in them, but sealed like a normal can) with the new logo/design. This is what it was ... a golden can with a smiling, silver/blue, pudgy, sun-face on it, and the Coors-like double-button pop-top lid.

Schlitz, in all their managerial brilliance, pooh-poohed the concept of "light beer," as well as the pop-top can. Well, maybe they were right about the can ... but they could've beaten Miller Lite by over a year, by my recollection, in terms of "lite beer" introduction/market share ... MAJOR eff-up at Schlitz management-wise.

At any rate (hey, it's a long story ... and I said so, so I have no regrets :) ), I know DAMNED WELL that the push/pull (stay tab) can was not introduced up to that point in any commercial quantity ... if it had been, I would've seen it (we got a regular supply of defect cans from the factory via my dad ... most of which were valuable for trade ... "upside-down" cans, half-painted cans, Schlitz cans with Miller lids, etc.).

And that puts us WELL past 1977 ...

The current can lid configuration ("stay-tabs") was invented in 1975, but did not come into regular commercial use until well into the 80's.

I *suppose* you could argue the Dharma folk were well ahead of their time, and adopted this "new technology" for their Iron City (oh, excuse me, I meant Generic ... oh, excuse me, I meant Dharma) beer cans.

Okay, I know ... WAY too much thought devoted to this. But as you might guess, based upon my rather brewery-related upbringing, it's not much of a stretch for me.

Sorry if I wasted anyone's time with this post ... pure indulgence on my part, but just felt the need to comment about something near and dear to my heart (but you know you come first sweetie! :) ) ... beer, and beer accessories!

Dude, I'm from Milwaukee, and my dad worked for a brewery, whaddya want?

#126. Posted by: ealgumby at April 17, 2009 1:02 AM

@53, AbeFroman: "@PlainTruth: Did *gasp* Shannon shoot first?"

I'm upgraded to The Truth! Simple as that. I'm out there.


****

@56, Cecil Rose: "I believe we're supposed to get 19 this season. Last night's was 13, which should leave six more and I'm hoping next week's clip show is not part of that count."

According to Wikipedia there are 3 episodes left (plus the clip show), the third of which is double length.


****

@60, Crispy Seaplanes, re "mad scientists": Perhaps then your's is a slightly different version of the mad scientist as the stock Hollywood version.

As far as these 'crazy claims' go, these usually come from the (relatively small, compared to the whole population of scientists) group of theoretical physicists working in high energy physics and cosmology. There's so much speculation and wild popularizing going on in that area (which in itself can be a very good thing thing, I'm definitely in favor of popularizing science, if it happens in a way that's as faithful to the actual science as one can be) that if you're not up to date in the field it's hard to distinguish between the current state of affairs, realistic speculation about where the field might be heading, and way-out wild speculation. One reason for this is that the mathematics behind the theories is often hard to interpret in every day terms and so to turn it into a nice story the physicists resort to odd sounding explanations, the value of which is debatable (another time, another blog, perhaps). Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, a claim like there is "proof ...[that]... the particles are going to/coming from alternate universes" is not justified at all. It might be a possible interpretation of the math behind the theory, but to say that there's proof is another thing altogether.


****


@69, PiecesofArzt: "I wasn't trying to belittle all scientists as 'crazy'. I was just pointing out the fact that if Faraday came up to you with notions of time travel and constants, that most people would think he was nuts."

If he didn't bring any evidence for his claims, then yes. If he had sufficient scientifically acceptable evidence to support his claims he would probably win all the scientific awards in any field even closely related to physics and then some.

That being said, my reaction to your previous post might have come across a little more harshly than it was intended. It's just that science and scientists seem to have to battle against a lot of stereotyping in society and I'm trying to help out where I can. :)

****

@72, BEHM: "I agree and noticed this too. I even paused and rewound that part to be sure I got it right. How can the dead be residing? Another reference to reincarnation."

I'm with you here. I was thinking "does she mean the dead Dharma dudes or the walking Island dead?" My guess is on the former ones though, since they went after Ben and Naomi told Miles that the man they were going after killed all these people. Perhaps she thought Miles could really converse with the dead as if they were still there, but that's not what he does, according to Miles's own explanation. He 'feels' their dying thoughts, but cannot interact with them.

****

@81, Cecil Rose: LOL. Lyrics to a song? Which one?


*****

@82, sandivon: "That's a great idea. Obviously he couldn't tell his wife that grown up, hole-y faced Miles was on the island watching cute cooing baby Miles, so, he'd have to act pretty cold-hearted to send them away and convince them to leave."

Wouldn't it make more sense for him to try and get rid of Miles instead?

#127. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 1:24 AM

Can someone please refresh my LOST memory? When did Dr. Chang lose his arm and in which epi do we find out?? I'm drawing a blank!!

#128. Posted by: Chrissy at April 17, 2009 7:56 AM

Ok, so I can't find the post anymore, but to whomever wrote "somebody set us up the bomb" --- all I have to say is: All your base are belong to us!

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Too funny!

#129. Posted by: Wendy at April 17, 2009 9:30 AM

@ 128 When did Dr. Chang lose his arm and in which epi do we find out?? I'm drawing a blank!!

.....and do we know if Dr. Chang dead? Is it possible that he's still alive?

When Ben did the purge we only saw the one place where the canisters were thrown. With so many places and so many people are we to believe that all of Dharma was wiped out? That would have been a major undertaking by Ben.

#130. Posted by: dk at April 17, 2009 9:48 AM

→ 126. Posted by: ealgumby re:pop tops
I am humbled and honored to be in the presence of brewery royalty. Beer is near and dear to me. Come to think of it, I have some Mash 4077 beer cans that I got after I was married and they are pull tabs. That would have been in the 80's.

Just goes to show, the internet can be an unreliable source, and data should always be verified. Thanks.

#131. Posted by: mtncbn at April 17, 2009 10:08 AM

Just adding my two cents about the beer can tops.

I was born in '72. I have memories from my childhood of pull tabs on pop cans, that is, the kind your pull off and they stay off. I remember making cool necklaces out of a string of them and my brothers ambitiously trying to make a bead-like curtain out of them. (Remember bead curtains in various doorways? Ahhh, the good old days!)

I remember the introduction of the pull and stay tabs in late elementary/early middle school which would have been the early/mid eighties. It was a challenge amongst friends to see if you could pull them off without breaking them or to get them off with the middle part that held it to the can attached. This, incidentally, was not a good thing because it left very sharp metal exposed which you had to try to drink around. Anyway, long story short, I have to agree with the timing listed by ealgumby #126 above.

#132. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 17, 2009 10:08 AM

@ mtncbn: Ya, I noticed....we were writing the exact same thing at the exact same time! I have to admit, you're smart as crud! Although I'd say that 'reverse magnetism' doesn't have quite the same flow as diamagnetism.....I yield to thee.

#133. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 17, 2009 10:11 AM

@132: lost2theworld - I've got the same memories (although my own, obviously we're not sharing a brain ;) ) (How DO we include emoticons in parentheses? xkcd had a comic with that as a question...) of cans with pull tabs and cutting my finger open on occasion.

I'd have to say there are some things that, despite the attention to minutia of the Lost crew, just slip by or aren't deemed worthy of taking the trouble to replicate. This is one of those things likely just wasn't worth the time and effort to worry about. Besides, if they got everything right what would we have to complain about every week! ;)

So the debate goes on as to how far TPTB will link the arm/hand Star Wars reference. Will this subject be dropped entirely going forward or will it continue onwards as an indirect reference for those in the know?

Regarding the number of episodes left, I was under the impression by looking at the calendar that we've got 2-4 regular episodes left including next week's episode/non-episode and then two more weeks for the season finale. They may very well bunch the season finale all onto one night, in which case there's another regular episode they could squeeze in. I'm going under the assumption that they're going to want to close everything out before the Memorial Day weekend.

#134. Posted by: LostedIt at April 17, 2009 10:32 AM

Comments and thoughts:

Maybe Naomi referred to these dead people as residing because they have not been buried. They could be laying in an open pit or walking around with Richard. I haven't settled my mind on that one yet. I also think they 'burned' Colleen, so she couldn't get up and walk around again - or maybe so she couldn't be 'read' to tell the island's secrets. Miles made it pretty clear that he needs a body to read.

I also think Chang will use his arm at the FDW and that's what knocks it off balance. He's probably going to be trying to stop someone from turning it.

And talking about course correction - If Locke was suppose to turn the wheel in 2004, I can only assume that it was meant for him to leave the island at that time. What purpose was he to serve by leaving the island? I also take it to mean that Ben should have stayed on the island and that anything he did after leaving, was not meant to be. That includes all of Sayid's killings. I'm trying to figure out just which years need to be course corrected. Obviously it's somewhere after 1977 at this point.

If Locke's job was to save the island by leaving it, then he would have needed Mrs. Hawkings to get him back to the island. Do we know what year it was that Dan told Desmond to find his mother? If, at that time, Dan knew he'd be going back to 1977, he also knew he would somehow be getting off the island. Why did Dan need his mother? There's still a lot of mystery around Dan.

And I know that Locke's final job was to get everyone to come back. But was that is initial job in 2004? Did the island realize that Jack and crew would actually make it off the island?

Our Oceanic groups problems all started with Desmond not pushing the button. Is that where the course correction needs to be made or are we going back further, possibly to Chang losing his arm, or to prevent the purge which everyone says can't be prevented? What happens when that course correction is made? Have the years, at least since the crash, been all wrong? Will Charlie be alive at the end?

I hate time travel but I love LOST!!!!!

#135. Posted by: pebspostal at April 17, 2009 10:43 AM

→ 126. ealgumby: "...something near and dear to my heart (but you know you come first sweetie! :) ) ..."

Awwww...I'm blushing... : ) ...& back atcha too...

Ahem. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. ; )

#136. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 17, 2009 10:50 AM

There was an early request for some Egyptology commentary on this episode.

First, the school room black board was teaching ancient Egyptian history, which breaks into three clear periods:

The Old Kingdom (the Pyramid Age) (2700 BCE-2200 BCE): Pharaohs had absolute power and were considered gods on earth. Pharaohs were buried in pyramids only during this time period in history. After building a few pyramids, at great expense to the state, it occurred to pharaohs that pyramids were much easier to rob than a hidden tomb.

The Middle Kingdom (2100 BCE-1800 BCE): The middle kingdom was Egypt's Golden Age. Trade flourished, arts and literature flourished. Egypt built strong armies to defend herself against her neighbors. During the time period of the middle kingdom, pharaohs were expected to be good kings and wise rulers. And pharaohs were buried in hidden tombs and it is believed that most of those hidden tombs have not yet been found.

The New Kingdom (1500 BCE-1000 BCE): The new kingdom was Egypt's expansion period. Egypt expanded her borders through military conquest and became a world power. During the time period of the new kingdom, pharaohs were all powerful, and pharaohs were all buried in the same geographic area called the Valley of the Kings.

I got vibe that the classroom was part of a "religious" school.

Second, as some viewers are now speculating that the Bram-van may be a "third" island group after Widmore and Dharma. If you want to add a third group to the mix, you could tie each group to one of the Egyptian kingdoms (pagan-idology, technical, militarism).

Third, in past episodes, the statue of Tawaret has been represented by some to state that it stood to guard the western gate to the underworld. On the island, the western most portion would not cast a shadow on the grounds until dusk- - - which corresponds to the legend of RA's nightly journeys through the underworld. So, when you are asked, "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" I think the correct answer is "The Valley of the Kings."

Fourth, in finding it unbelievable that the Dharma folk could build massive underground structures like the Swan in hostile territory (without a massive shipyard to unload tons of concrete and structural steel and heavy equipment to build), the only thing I can think of why these factions co-exist is that they are all in one form or another, ancient Egyptians (who happen to have different kingdom belief sets). It gets back to an ancient law of civilization peace: an eye for an eye, balance of power.

#137. Posted by: welh at April 17, 2009 11:07 AM

@129, Wendy: "Ok, so I can't find the post anymore, but to whomever wrote "somebody set us up the bomb" --- all I have to say is: All your base are belong to us!

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Too funny!"

What you say!!

(and I meant of course "Somebody set up us the bomb")

#138. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 11:41 AM

@99, Skipper: "About the dead guy with the filling. Surely he was not the only person working at the job site with a filling or piece of metal? didn't someone else at least have a wedding band on? why weren't they effected?"

I think someone said that he was digging in the wrong place? Was that someone on this blog or on the show? :)

#139. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 12:07 PM

@86, benlinusrocks: "I think that Miles or whoever is in the 'cirle of trust' gets the dead bodies up to the Orchid so Chang and his henchman can use them for time travel experiments."

At first I thought that as well, but then they brought the body to the Swan, not the Orchid, right?

#140. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 12:24 PM

Remaining episodes per ABC

The Variable 5.14
Follow the Leader 5.15
The Incident (2 part) 5.16.17

...plus the clip show next week

#141. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 17, 2009 1:10 PM

→ 137. Posted by: welh

It gets back to an ancient law of civilization peace: an eye for an eye, balance of power.

***********

Great thought welh. It seems the past episode of the purge pushed the script point (at that point) around Ben's reconciliation with Dad (roger workman)and "other" issues.

TBTB have seemingly dug a hole for the writers in working through this. Would love to be blown away and see how they "dig" their way out to rectify/explain/reslove this script milestone. Perhaps secrets lie in Steve Martin's classic "King Tut".

#142. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 17, 2009 1:26 PM

Agree with #25 ...

I was complaining about Juliet the other night and my mom was like "You don't like any of the women on this show, do you?" And I realized, I really don't. Admittedly Juliet is growing on me, as she hasn't been quite as smirky and smug lately. And I like her with Sawyer. But she's not awesome or anything. And Kate is... well we all know. I was beginning to like the new Badass Sun but we haven't seen much of her. We need an awesome woman on LOST!!

Also agree that it was unlike Juliet to have a backup plan. Then again, it's hard to tell how much time elapsed between Kate taking Ben and then Roger coming in and realizing he was gone. Maybe she didn't have time to think of something good. Or maybe she figured it would be better if she pretended to be totally ignorant that to try to corroborrate a fake story. Or maybe she didn't have Sawyer the master of deciet there to help her think of soemthing good...

Ok I'm rambling. Back to reading all the posts!!

#143. Posted by: Christin at April 17, 2009 1:29 PM

That's suppose to say Chang will 'lose' his arm not use his arm. I never was good at proof-reading.

#144. Posted by: pebspostal at April 17, 2009 1:38 PM

@10 Plain Simple re: dead guy in restaurant taking pix to Widmore:

Totally agree. If Widmore was behind the fake 815, why would he need the purchase order or pictures of the gravesite? Whether Ben or another group planted the wreckage is still in question.

Bram doesn't work for Widmore, so he either works for Ben or with 3rd group. Ilana, who is now working with Bram, could be with him or only pretending. She could still be a Widmoreite whose mission was to bring Sayid back to the island to kill Ben. Or working with whoever knows that Sayid had to come back to shoot but not kill Ben.

Beergate aside, what I really want to know is how they're getting radio on the island, assuming "Love Will Keep Us Together" was on the radio, not cassette?

Another funny line (or rather a clever play on words) was when Sawyer said, "It's like a Dutch boy putting his finger in a [pause] Doc!"

#145. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 17, 2009 1:52 PM

120. Posted by: ealgumby
will Miles end up like Luke, with a missing appendage (arm/hand), to match his dad's? Will his dad end up being responsible directly/indirectly for said loppage?

Good analogy. I didn't think of that.
I wonder if Miles has a sister?

444444444444444444444444444444

125. Posted by: Mizzed
In the same way, it appears Charlie was always destined to die in the Looking Glass for events to play out as necessary. If so, then Desmond wasn't changing history- he was making sure history happened correctly by removing variables (lightning strike, drowning accident, arrow through neck while discussing DC comic book heroes, etc).

If Desmond was making sure history happened correctly by removing variables did Desmond know he was doing this?
Who caused the lightening strike in the first place? Are you saying it was a mistake and needed to be stopped? It needed to be course corrected? Lightening is an act of nature. Was Nature interfering in the universe's plan and had to be stopped?

This doesn't make sense to me. It has been declared that Desmond is special and It could be his ability to alter events in a WHH universe is why he is special.

888888888888888888888888

Re the filler show next week. The last time they did this, D and C said in a podcast, it was to stretch the season to cover all of sweeps in May. ABC wants it this way.

The promo says we will see the O6 story from a different perspective. Maybe it will have some new info for us?

15151515151515151515151515

@99, Skipper: "About the dead guy with the filling. Surely he was not the only person working at the job site with a filling or piece of metal? didn't someone else at least have a wedding band on? why weren't they effected?"

I think they said he fell into a ditch and -Miles relies "the ditch had a gun?" or "the ditch shot him?"

161616161616161616616

→ 140. Posted by: Plain Simple At first I thought that as well, but then they brought the body to the Swan, not the Orchid, right?

I think they took it from the swan to the barracks and then to the orchid.

#146. Posted by: berkyo at April 17, 2009 2:00 PM

Perhaps secrets lie in Steve Martin's classic "King Tut".
→ 142. Posted by: Island Hopper

I'm smiling just at the mention of that:)

#147. Posted by: berkyo at April 17, 2009 2:01 PM

Rats, I meant "whomever."

Dumb joke: What's the last thing Daniel said before Eloise died: "Rats!"

Wonder who the Variable is going to be? Faraday? Desmond? Need a math lesson here: If Desmond is Faraday's constant and Faraday is a variable, then Desmond...oh never mind, I'd have an easier time desophering hieroglyphics.

@28. Posted by: lost2theworld
Is there any chance that the guy that couldn't read the smeared number is the guy from the asylum?

I don't know if he was that guy, but I do think Leonard could have been on the island during the building of the Swan. But maybe that would make him too old.

Re all the talk about Juliet's lame on-the-fly comment to Roger, I respectfully disagree. Juliet knows that Sawyer is the head of security, so telling Roger to go to Sawyer was a good way to try to contain the situation.

#148. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 17, 2009 2:05 PM

-126 ealgumby, et al.

ONE more post about the pop-tops controversy...with decisive photographic proof!

I work in downtown Dayton Ohio. Along the Great Miami River downtown is Riverscape, where they have displays of notable Dayton inventions that I see everyday on my lunch time walk. Across the street from the full scale stainless steel replica of the Wright Brothers' 1905 flyer is this:

http://tinyurl.com/castl9

A little monument of the evolution of the pop-top can...which was invented and patented in Dayton by Ermal C. Fraze.

As the second picture shows, Fraze invented the ring-pull can in 1962, the pop-top can in 1965, and the push-in fold-back opener in 1977.

I just re-watched the Kate/Roger Linus beer drinking scene, and they are clearly drinking out of cans that have the push-in fold-back openers.

Now if this type of opener had just been invented in 1977...it's HIGHLY unlikely that Dharma beer would utilize this opener yet in 1977, as mass production would've taken a while.

So I agree that this was a show blunder. But it's Lost...so they are forgiven!

#149. Posted by: JoePike at April 17, 2009 2:07 PM

...or maybe the production staff did some research and discovered that type of opener was invented in 1977, so figured they could get away with it.

After all, finding cans with the alternative openers for the scene would've been a pain in the arse.

#150. Posted by: JoePike at April 17, 2009 2:17 PM

***** Long Post Alert ******

I agree that there are several "sides", but I think they are all factions within the Dharma Initiative.

One part of the DI is suburban, little pink houses ("...for you and me...") with picket fences, swingsets, etc. This group is intended to give the appearance of simple hippie-dippy peace, love, and understanding why-can't-we-all-just-get-along-ness. This could explain the Roger Linuses of the DI. They just ain't bright enough to figure out what's really going on. This would also explain all the demeaning comments about the Security folks, and how a Sawyer could appear out of nowhere and rise up so high so quickly through the ranks. Also, it explains Chang's comments about the useless experiments on polar bears. This group is all about subterfuge and mis-direction.

Then there's a group doing the actual scientific experiments involving electro-magnetism and time travel. The Meet the Parents: Circle of Trust (MtPCoT) if you will. These folks are supposedly separate but equal (some being more equal than others) to the regular DI folks, only much much brighter. I suspect these folks are a break-away splinter group that knows what's really going on and are looking to benefit personally (like a Widmore or possibly a Paik).

Then there's a group, the Statuaries, that I believe is trying to rein in the break-aways and wants to re-rail the original intent of the DI, and get What Happened, Happened back to what actually happened. I believe this bunch is the military arm, the Opus Dei if you will, of the DI.

I think Ben Linus was part of the first group, and, after aligning himself with the Others, due to Desmond Hume causing Flight 815 to crash, graduated to becoming part of the second group and is now determined to keep what he sees as his, even though he "stole" it from Widmore. As long as his interests are the same as the island he is free to go about his business ("These are not the droids you're looking for.")

This theory doesn't attempt to explain the Others, who I believe are the true residents of the island, whether they are Egyptian or Atlantean, human or alien, dead or alive remains to be seen. Personally, I think they are quasi-dimensional multi-verse beings, their natural state being that of small black particulates who assemble into the entity we call Smokey, and are thus able to shape- AND time-shift. I know I know…that last bit's a load of hogwash. But doggonit, it almost sounded good.

***** End of Long Post Alert *****

#151. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 17, 2009 2:20 PM

@36. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
And when Hurley said Miles could go hold himself or change his own diaper I was totally thinking that would be "The Incident"

When changing diapers there's always the possibility of AN incident but perhaps not THE incident.

Re dead bodies and time travel, I'm thinking Richard or someone utilizing the orchid's properties can take dead bodies, bring them back in time to when they're alive and give them another go-around. They'd still be dead in the "present" -- thus dead is dead still -- but they could be alive again in the past. But once someone is burned, buried, decomposed and/or Skeletorized, it's too late because the body is gone.

#152. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 17, 2009 2:23 PM

→ 128. Chrissy: When did Dr. Chang lose his arm and in which epi do we find out??

We've never actually seen the arm-lopping incident (which may or may not be part of The Incident), but our first view of Dr. Chang was in the orientation video for the Swan, which we saw in S2. In that video, Dr. Chang was going by Marvin Candle, & it appeared that his left arm was a prosthetic. The copyright date on the video was 1980. The tentative hypothesis at this point is that Dr. Chang's arm was lopped sometime between 1977 (because it's clear that he has two working arms in 1977) & 1980 (assuming...which is always dangerous on LOST...that the copyright date is accurate).

→ 151. ransomjackson: What the Others are:

Hey, sounds as good as anything else that's been proposed thus far!

And if anyone can stand more info on Beergate:

From Wikipedia (obviously not 100% authoritative): The first all-aluminum cans were the same as their forebears, which still used the can opener to open them. Mikola Kondakow of Thunder Bay, Ontario invented the pull tab version for bottles in 1956 [Canadian patent 476789]. Then, in 1962, Ermal Clayton of Dayton, Ohio, invented the similar integral rivet and pull-tab version (also known as rimple or ring pull), which had a ring attached at the rivet for pulling, and which would come off completely to be discarded. He received U.S. Patent No. 3,349,949 for his pull-top can design in 1963 and licensed his invention to Alcoa and Pittsburgh Brewing Company. It was first introduced on Iron City Beer cans by the Pittsburgh Brewing Company... Stay tabs (also called colon tabs) were invented by Daniel F. Cudzik of Reynolds Metals in Richmond, Virginia, in 1975...

#153. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 17, 2009 2:30 PM

@127 Plain Simple asked:

>@81, Cecil Rose: LOL. Lyrics to a song? Which one?

Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" And like all his songs, three times as funny to see.hear him perform it.

http://tinyurl.com/6xdq9q

If you've never heard Tom Leherer, put his name into YouTube search and enjoy.

#154. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 17, 2009 2:43 PM

Perhaps I'm trying too hard to find some hidden meaning (but hey, this is Lost after all) and I apologize if this has been discussed last week, but could the "lies" in "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" refer to not telling the truth, instead of being present? Ben is lying all the time, shadows or not...

Perhaps Christian lied to Locke down in the well, in the shadow of the statue?

mmm... definitely overreaching here.

#155. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 3:16 PM

@146, berkyo: "→ 140. Posted by: Plain Simple At first I thought that as well, but then they brought the body to the Swan, not the Orchid, right?

I think they took it from the swan to the barracks and then to the orchid."

O yes, I think you're right. Image that, only two days after seeing the episode the details start to blur together in my mind. :)

****

@154, Cecil Rose: "Tom Lehrer's "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" And like all his songs, three times as funny to see.hear him perform it."

Thanks, I'll check it out. His name does ring a bell, but I don't know why. Again that memory thing.

#156. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 17, 2009 3:20 PM

O, now I know! His Elements Song and his New Math song, these I knew. Brilliant. :)

#157. Posted by: Plain Simpl at April 17, 2009 3:27 PM

This may go down as Tangent of the Year nominee but here goes:

When I watched the episode, there was a quick “what was that in the background” moment when Jack was at the school blackboard. I rewatched that scene and yes there was something odd to the right of the blackboard. On further investigation, it was a chart of the Periodic Elements. However, there was one of the elements highlighted in red on the chart, like an island. So, I squinted and counted the rows and columns over to find it was the 4th row, 8th element in . . . oh, those pesky Numbers. So the highlighted element could not be a shear coincidence, right?

Well, it turns out that it was the element 26, Fe (Iron), the most common ferromagnetic material. It is also an early reference to Mars, the red planet. And what is the symbol for Mars? It is the MALE FERTILITY symbol.

That was weird, so I decided to run The Numbers through the Periodic Chart:

4: Be (Beryllium) is a rare element caused from the Big Bang (CREATION). It is used as a hardening element in alloys, and radiation filter (but it is highly toxic).

8: O (Oxygen) means “sharp.” It is used to smelt iron ore to purify it. It is a basic foundation for organic LIFE in photosynthesis and respiration.

15: P (Phosphorus) means “LIGHT BEARER”) It is never found as a free element in nature, but it is an essential element for living cells.

16: S (Sulfur) is a pure element in nature and essential to life. It is associated with “brimstone” and HELL.

23: V (Vanadium) is named for the norse goddess of beauty and FEMALE FERTILITY.
It is a natural element which is part of steel smelter slag in the production of alloys. It is also a catalyst to produce sulfuric acid. And some life forms use it as the center for enzyme production.

42: Mo (Molybdenum) is from the Greek word “lead.” It has a high melting point and is used in high strength steel alloys. It is not a free element found in nature but is found in oxidized minerals. There is a theory that Mo in minerals in early oceans allowed free oxygen to be used by early life forms as a catalyst which allowed more complex organisms to evolve (EVOLUTION). There are more than 20 Mo-based enzymes in animals and higher organisms.

Well, the background of those elements are curious in the Context of the show.
So, can The Numbers be the following plot formula for the show?

MALE FERTILITY + CREATION + LIFE + LIGHT BEARER + HELL + FEMALE FERTILITY + EVOLUTION = LOST.

#158. Posted by: welh at April 17, 2009 3:29 PM

@137. Posted by: welh - "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" I think the correct answer is "The Valley of the Kings."

Awesome! I'm on board with that one.

Ok, I'm definitely beer-can-topped out. Nuh muh!

How come nobody's brought up the fact that Farraday swore we couldn't/shouldn't change time but he appears to have been perfectly comfortable going back to the mainland to interact with who know's who? Hasn't he heard of the butterfly effect?

#159. Posted by: LostedIt at April 17, 2009 3:35 PM

@ 145. Posted by: Scooby-Dude concerning radio on the Island.

I don't see any reason why Dharma couldn't have a radio station, though it could be a tape too (probably 8-track being the 70's and all) because wasn't there music when Hurley finally got the van running in the episode from a couple of years ago?

#160. Posted by: Sue at April 17, 2009 3:37 PM

Perhaps secrets lie in Steve Martin's classic "King Tut".
→ 142. Posted by: Island Hopper

I'm smiling just at the mention of that:)
→ 147. Posted by: berkyo at April 17, 2009 2:01 PM

---------

berkyo...

Posted in response to a cnn.com article today that there are reports archaeologists "may" have found evidence of the Cleopatra tomb.

#161. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 17, 2009 3:44 PM

In the scene where Miles was talking to the Dad who wanted to know if his dead son knew he loved him, Miles said
"It's gonna cost you extra."

Totally hoped he'd finish with "10,000. All in advance."

#162. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 17, 2009 3:55 PM

@157 Plain Simpl realized:

>O, now I know! His Elements Song and his New Math song, these I knew. Brilliant. :)

And hundreds of others. One of our most brilliant satirical singer-songwriters of the fities/sixties. Still around in comfortable semi-retirement at UC Santa Cruz. Dropped out of performing in the early seventies.

And "New Math" was no accident - he's a mathematician and wrote a satirical review at MIT in his undergrad days.

#163. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 17, 2009 3:57 PM

@151/ransomjackson: "Personally, I think they are quasi-dimensional multi-verse beings, their natural state being that of small black particulates who assemble into the entity we call Smokey, and are thus able to shape- AND time-shift. I know I know…that last bit's a load of hogwash. But doggonit, it almost sounded good."

Not sure if I ever mentioned this here, but ...

I had a rather obscure thought that Smokey is the 3-D "shadow" of a super-dimensional entity, in the same way a shadow on the wall is a dark, 2-D projection of a 3-D object. Shadows often do not obviously represent the object they are projections of, and I'd expect this to be even less so with a 3-D shadow ... hence "Smokey." Of course, some people are pretty good at making shadows on the wall look like bunny rabbits, crocodiles, and other critters through clever hand manipulation ... could Smokey cleverly manipulate its 4/5/6/?-D self such that its 3-D "shadow" looks like a walking, talking person?

This would be my explanation for the "shape-shifting" aspects of Smokey. If Smokey IS 4+ dimensional, this opens the possibility that it could have time-traveling ability as well (given that time is the fourth dimension in traditional Minkowski space).

Anyway, I don't think you're crazy ... nor that your theory is necessarily hogwash ... and it does sound good at some level! Just not sure how the heck the writers could relate such a concept in terms of the show though. But I guess that's why they're TPTB, and I'm just a Hurleyesque script-writing wannabe ... perhaps they'll find a way to pull it off.

#164. Posted by: ealgumby at April 17, 2009 4:46 PM

@137. Posted by: welh
"What lies in the shadow of the statue?" I think the correct answer is "The Valley of the Kings."

I know the correct answer is not "Hunh? Whuh?" That was Frank's answer, and that didn't work out too well for him.

Maybe the answer is "Pull tab beer cans"
That was a pretty big statue. Can you imagine how many empties it would take to fill the shadow of a statue that size?

#165. Posted by: Gumbo at April 17, 2009 5:41 PM

I believe that Pierre Chang never left but was a victim of the wheel and time travel. He might have went back in time to where the crazy young widmore was willing to cut off a hand resulting in his loss of a limb. He was also aware that there would be a president bush in the future so chances are he bounced around in time and fell in the trap of the bloody nose.

#166. Posted by: ALEX_ANGEL at April 17, 2009 6:03 PM

i just watched the new episode,
very surprised that chang has no interest in "these silly experiments" when he is reading what appears to be a baby polar bear book to infant miles!

#167. Posted by: san at April 17, 2009 7:32 PM

If Chang is not interested in polar bears, then how cum he sent one to Tunisia???? Maybe he really doesn't like them, send them far far away.

#168. Posted by: mtncbn at April 17, 2009 7:58 PM

polar bears seem to be a very common theme in lost - from season 1, when walt had his comic book, to this episode, another childrens book featuring polar bears!

#169. Posted by: san at April 17, 2009 8:20 PM

@159 LostedIt: "How come nobody's brought up the fact that Farraday swore we couldn't/shouldn't change time but he appears to have been perfectly comfortable going back to the mainland to interact with who know's who? Hasn't he heard of the butterfly effect?"

Now that you bring it up...it seems to me Faraday is running around putting out all sorts of fires, doesn't it? From telling Richard & Co. to bury the bomb to telling himself to don't tell Charlotte to preventing another gas attack to who knows what. Now we're back to the opening scene of the season when he was down in the Swan passing by the bleeder on the floor (Another filling? Crown? Bridgework perhaps?) Is he charged with making sure what happens happens?

I fixate on stupid things too, like how does Widmore keep a horse on the island? Where did he get it? Can't be an old army horse. And what about the cow that Lapidus saw back a long time ago in 200____? I think Widmore might also have continued chopping hands into the 70's, why not? It was probably he who "disarmed" poor P.F. Chang.

welh, loved the periodic chart info! I can just see TPTB going, "Yeah, that's amazing,why didn't we think..um,...er...of COURSE that's what we wanted the fans to see! Someone FINALLY got the periodic chart references!!!!!

#170. Posted by: Glostover at April 17, 2009 8:20 PM

anyhoo.... back to polar bears......

#171. Posted by: san at April 17, 2009 8:29 PM

Interesting new feature on the ABC website. A "timeline: episode viewer when one can view full episides either in episode number order or chronological order.

http://tinyurl.com/dhdujh

Can't be perfect, what with episodes occupying multiple times, at least in S-5, but interesting.

Sorting in Chron. order, the earliest (they don't give time/dates, just order) the "Earliest: episode is:

595 - "This place is death" Locke turning the FDW. (So he was in the past while turning it)

The next earliest is:

411 - Cabin Fever - Wherein Richard Alpert visits the young Locke with some interesting objects.

On the other end of the timeline, the furthest in the future is:

504 - The litle Prince - Juliet trading shots with someone (herself?) following in another outrigger.

And the second most forward is:

509 - Namaste - Sun clocks Benry and takesa a canoe to the Big Island with Lapidus.


Don't know how they choose what 'time' represents an episode. Obviously some parts of 503 - Jughead (wasthebomb) predate the Locke/Alpert visit in 411.

Now if they were to offer DVD's of every *scene* in chronoloical order, I'd pay money for that.

#172. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 17, 2009 8:41 PM

Waht does TPTB stand for?

#173. Posted by: Garry Forsythe at April 17, 2009 9:41 PM

@ cecil.
you may have inadvertently just made the producers a load of $$$ if they read this blog!

#174. Posted by: san at April 17, 2009 9:43 PM

chronological box set for - fathers day,- christmas, or anytime you want to show how much you care for your lost obsessed parent!

#175. Posted by: san at April 17, 2009 9:55 PM

Gary #173, there are TWO answers to your question:

1. TPTB = The Powers that Be


2. AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


(Some day you'll understand.)

#176. Posted by: davidrh at April 17, 2009 11:39 PM

→ 159. LostedIt: "How come nobody's brought up the fact that Farraday swore we couldn't/shouldn't change time but he appears to have been perfectly comfortable going back to the mainland"

In past seasons, we wondered how/if Hawking and Widmore knew of future events. One easy answer is that Faraday told them when he went back in time in the 1970's.

Like a lot of other elements from season 5, Faraday leaving the island can be seen as making the previously shown future happen, rather than changing it.

→ 158. welh: "oh, those pesky Numbers. So the highlighted element could not be a shear coincidence, right?"

Creative idea, but like all other attempts to explain the significance of the numbers, there's a major fly in the ointment- TPTB admitted several seasons ago that the numbers were selected randomly.

The importance of the numbers is their role as a mystical message that appears everywhere and is interwoven in virtually every scene where a number appears. The actual numbers themselves- 4, 8, 15, etc., aren't important, just the concept behind them.

I'd compare this to the FDW/Orchid scenes from season 4. Yes, they threw out terms like Casimir Effect, but they never actually explained how the FDW works, or how Locke or Ben were transported in time to Tunisia.

It was viewers that used the wormhole concept to try and explain the FDW, but that was never really presented in the context of the show.

Perhaps D&C will bend to fan pressure and reveal all the mysteries behind the curtain. But their original intention was to leave many elements up to viewer interpretation- FDW, Smokey, numbers, etc. They've used a Star Wars analogy in the past- it's more powerful to view the Force as a mystical, unexplained energy than it is to explain it as midi-chloridians that reside in your blood stream.

IMO, this is the flaw in your postings on the Egyptian pantheon- it's very interesting, but it is too complicated and intricate, and isn't consistent with the way Lost reveals its story. The writers are more interested in detailing why Kate wants that toy airplane than they are in explaining the physics on the Jack group being teleported back in time off that Ajira plane.

→ 146. berkyo: "It has been declared that Desmond is special and It could be his ability to alter events in a WHH universe is why he is special."

Did Faraday describe Des as special because he can change the future, or because he has developed the special ability to maintain his sanity and awareness despite consciousness-jumping through time?

After all, even after Des gained his abilities, he still had to accept that he could not marry Penny or avoid going to the island, and that he would still have to sacrifice three years of his life to pushing that button.

The whole Hawking-Des interaction revolved around Desmond accepting that even though he knew the future, he was still powerless to change his destiny. Just as he struggled then with following his path, he struggled later with his inability to prevent Charlie's eventual death.

When Desmond first left the hatch, he literally could not escape or sail away from the island until he played his next part. That path was to turn the failsafe key at the Swan after Locke refused to enter the buttons, which not only "saved the world", but gave Des the power to forsee events and ensure that Charlie was kept alive until the Looking Glass.

You raise several good questions about why this sequence was necessary, but from a thematic standpoint, I think the writers intention was to reinforce again the role destiny plays in Lost.

#177. Posted by: Mizzed at April 18, 2009 12:58 AM

re: pop-top can

So many childhood memories of shaking the can up, and slightly opening the small hole, keeping the finger in place, and spraying the crap out of things. Good times!!!

Hmmmmm - one other random childhood memory was the size difference between Canadian and American pop cans. The Canadian versions were considerably thinner, and alot harder (maybe tin?).

I also seem to recall potato chips being packaged in something close to the aluminum foil that is presently used in baking. You crunched it up, and it stayed crunched. I wonder when that change transpired?

I think both may have been in the mid 80's.

Would appreciate any input anyone might have....


Lastly.....

SCARF!!!!!!

#178. Posted by: shikotee at April 18, 2009 1:17 AM

@ 146
Re the filler show next week. The last time they did this, D and C said in a podcast, it was to stretch the season to cover all of sweeps in May. ABC wants it this way.
The promo says we will see the O6 story from a different perspective. Maybe it will have some new info for us?

Could it be from the new factions point of view?

#179. Posted by: Monica at April 18, 2009 7:01 AM

@177 / Mizzed

It is clear that there are more creative posters here than the show's writer's bullpen. There have been a few blog comments making it into the show so far (Sawyer's RA "eyeliner" reference for example.) Maybe the end game is the fans writing the last episode.

@172 /Cecil Rose

Ever since the FlashForward Jack-Kate airport scene, I thought ABC would sell a chronological version of the series after the show ended its run. And as bad as this sounds, the whole mystery of LOST could be mere production editing: what happened happened but not in the order you think it happened.

At that time, it was debated whether that scene was the conclusion of the series. It takes on a different context if Jack's reference to Kate's "him" is not Aaron and the statement is really "we have to go back (again)!" is because it is taking place in 2010.

#180. Posted by: welh at April 18, 2009 9:42 AM

Welh, great tangent at 158.

ealgumby at 121. Great point. Why didn't Miles just "read" his mother to find out about his father? He didn't have to wait til she died because wasn't he able to "feel" the dead son through the alive father just by holding his hands?

Wait, I got it. Widmore loves chopping off hands and Smokey likes to sever them, therefore Widmore = Smokey!

Back to what I thought was the overriding theme of this episode, it seems to me that karma has been woven deeply into the fabric of Lost, particularly this season. Starting with Hurley buying all the extra seats on Ajira and instructing Caeser to buckle his seat belt and continuing on to Kate being nice to Roger and even the kinder, gentler Sawyer to some degree, we have seen many of our Losties grow this season.

My theory on Miles is that he was on the island as a baby during the incident and that is what led to his superpower, much in the way Desmond's abilities got heightened after exposure to electromagnetic energy. The irony of Miles' character, though, is that his greatest skill is the ability to hear dead people, yet when he has the opportunity to actually get to know his father while he's still alive, he balks. He can communicate with the dead but not with the living.

Why were we presented with a Miles-centric episode? I believe it was to reinforce the theme of karma in the show's mythology. In karma, to paraphrase badly, I'm sure, one is responsible for one's own life and how it affects others, and one's deeds affect past, present and future experiences. In one interpretation, karma is the baggage of one's thoughts, deeds and actions in one's present and past lives and may be governed by the Five Evils –- Lust, Rage (Anger), Ego, Attachment and Greed. As long as Miles is driven by greed or anger, he will not grow.

Hurley, on the other hand, is probably the only character on the show who is genuinely good all the time. Even before the Oceanic 6's rescue, he didn't want to lie, and later said that bad things happened because they lied. In the hilarious scene with Hurley in the back seat, he is prodding Miles and Chang to try to have a relationship. Hurley is forever trying to help people get along or do the right thing. He also may be the only character who is liked by all. Miles, like the others, is struggling with how to become a better person. Hurley, now that he has forgiven his father, has already become a better person.

This season has also introduced the possibility of reincarnation, and isn't one interpretation of reincarnation a chance to raise one's spiritual soul to a higher plane? I read the clever reversal of the phrase "What goes around comes around" into "What comes around goes around" as Lost's way of saying that the Losties have traveled back in time to give themselves the opportunity to try again and do a better job on the second go-around? Isn't that the common way we view karma -– be good to others and you shall be spiritually rewarded in the end?

#181. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 18, 2009 11:43 AM

158. Posted by: welh

That's awesome! I would love the numbers to mean something. Maybe D and C will read this and adopt it. Unless they knew it was in the Periodic chart along ;)

#182. Posted by: berkyo at April 18, 2009 2:11 PM

@137. Posted by: welh - "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" I think the correct answer is "The Valley of the Kings."

And I liked this one too. Makes sense. I thought they could be modern day pirates coming to get whatever the Black Rock had on board.

#183. Posted by: berkyo at April 18, 2009 2:13 PM

161. Posted by: Island Hopper
I saw something on the sci channel about a tomb near Tut's that is thought to hold his family members. I would LOVE to go see the Valley of the Kings.

#184. Posted by: berkyo at April 18, 2009 2:23 PM

# 42. rinz: JJ must like him, he has a small role in the new Star Trek movie as well.

#185. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 18, 2009 3:21 PM

Best line - the look Miles gave his father when he said he liked country music. Great!! Ken Leung is a fantastic actor.

#186. Posted by: LostinArk. at April 18, 2009 4:05 PM

who is the most agitated character in lost-my top 2 candidates for this award are frogurt and radzinsky, since frogurt died from heartburn stuart radzinsky wins,
shame frogurt had to die, i would have liked to see what happened if those 2 were put in the same room as eachother-maybe another "incident"

#187. Posted by: san at April 18, 2009 4:37 PM

Geek confession: I am a Dr. Who fan.

And Hurley's comment to Miles about being able to hold himself when he was a baby and maybe changing his own diapers . . .

Damn funny comment, but it reminded me of a Dr. Who episode from a few years ago when Chris Eccleston was the Doctor and Billie Piper was Rose.

Rose talked the Doctor into going back in time so she could see her father (who died when she was very young.) But everybody knows that you're not supposed to mess with history when you time travel. When Rose sees the car that is going to hit and kill her Dad, she runs out into the street and saves him.

Rose's parents are young then and attending a wedding, bring her along as an infant. Her Dad should have been killed before the wedding started, but because she saved him, huge time monsters traveled thorough a rift in time and started devouring people. They were safe inside the cathedral (because it was very old) until Rose sees herself as an infant.

And as the Doctor screams, "Rose, don't touch the baby" ~~~ she does. And then the time monsters are able to penetrate the cathedral. Elements of that story came back to me after Hurley's comment: if Miles holds himself as a baby, who knows what time monsters might show up?
Smokey and all of his cousins?

About the removable pop tops: I remember going to an all-day/all-night/all-the-next-day-party to watch the wedding of Charles and Diana ~~~ that was during the Summer of 1981. I remember the disposable rings on the beer cans because 'barefoot me' stepped on one that had been thrown into the grass. It slit my toe open, but unfortunately, I didn't notice until after I sobered up! So I developed a bad infection in my toe.

You don't forget things like that.

#188. Posted by: LostLove at April 18, 2009 8:00 PM

@171 san - If you think I was ignoring your polar bear convo, I was typing while it was going on, and hadn't refreshed the page. Sorry to have confused you. Wish this worked like a chatroom, but it doesn't.

Thanks.

#189. Posted by: Glostover at April 18, 2009 8:03 PM

Also, to add to the Juliet's death theory (which is so sad I may add, I love her and Sawyer and she's got info...I can feel it...) she was wearing a red shirt. Eh???

#190. Posted by: lostandfound at April 18, 2009 9:04 PM

Maybe Chang did some experiment on Miles when he was a baby and that's why he has a connection to dead people?

#191. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 18, 2009 9:51 PM

@-189 glostover,
no need whatsoever to apologize, it can get a bit chaotic in here sometimes,i just got the whole polar bear idea & couldnt stop thinking about it,
i enjoyed reading your post (170) & i agree with you, there are contradictions all over the place, i think the "rules" that we hear ben & widmore discuss means that the same rules apply off island & on the island, - no "other" may harm anyone who is also an "other" yet we have seen this disproved more than once.

#192. Posted by: san at April 18, 2009 10:20 PM

@149. Posted by: JoePike

Now that should end beergate once and for all. Where would the world be without Ohioans? We are smart cookies!

@158. Posted by: welh

Wow! I guess I should have paid more attention in Chemistry. I had a strange teacher who looked like Drew Carey, yet another Ohioan. He never washed his coffee cup and like to gross us out by showing us how nasty it was before drinking out of it. No wonder I didn't learn anything.

#193. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 18, 2009 11:25 PM

When Naomi introduced herself to Miles, she called his name. She said "Miles Strom."

Swear I thought she said maelstrom...


Also, any significance to the type of illness that Miles' Mom has/had? Her hair looked to be falling out. Some type of radiation sickness? Island related somehow?

#194. Posted by: add it up at April 19, 2009 3:28 AM

→ 188. Posted by: LostLove

I remember that Dr. Who episode. Good One. Also remember an older one. I forget who the Doctor was then but they picked up a young man named herb or George (Can't remember that either) at an world expo in Paris I think . He traveled with them for one episode and when he returned to Earth and his time, The Doctor talks about getting him on his path and the helper asks who Herb was. H.G Wells. BTW my favorite Doctor was the Curly blond one with the multi colored coat. I think he his helper was Perry.

#195. Posted by: berkyo at April 19, 2009 11:04 AM

@ 195. berkyo: It was Herbert, and the episode was Time Lash. And I am sorry to tell you this berkyo, but now that I know that the 6th Doctor is your favorite, I don;t think we can be friends any more...

:P

#196. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 19, 2009 11:38 AM

Hee ~~ *warning ~~ more geekiness* ~~ which leads me to remember Star Trek: TNG when Pickard and Guinan hung around with Samuel Clemens for awhile . . .

#197. Posted by: LostLove at April 19, 2009 12:30 PM

There were so many good lines this episode. I especially think Miles did a good job. "The ditch had a gun?"
was great, and there were a few others. I can't wait to hear the story on Faraday - how he got to leave and return.

Okay, kids are whining. Gotta go.

#198. Posted by: meg at April 19, 2009 5:30 PM

Lots of anagrams on the show and now homophones?

Miles Strom sure sounds like Maelstrom.

From Wikipedia:
"In Spanish and other languages, Maelstrom is used as a synonym for whirlpool. Hence, the word "Maelstrom" appears in diverse contexts metaphorically to make reference to different subjects or objects that suggest great chaotic or sinister forces."..."The word, maelstrom denotes powerful and inescapable, personal destructive forces."


With a "Variable" about to be thrown into the works and an impending "Incident", it seems as if the SLIH episode may portend much more important things to happen related to good old Miles.

#199. Posted by: add it up at April 19, 2009 7:18 PM

@191 Thanks for your understanding, san! Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" book series - including The Golden Compass were referenced in one of the blogs out there as having parallels to Lost. I don't know how many materials the creators consulted in coming up with their mythology, but this may be one of them. I couldn't NOT contribute to the conversation! I am looking forward to it all making sense soon!

#200. Posted by: Glostover at April 19, 2009 7:52 PM

@-200 glostover.
i am not familiar with pullmans work, i have seen the golden compass though, hmm... polar bears....

#201. Posted by: san at April 19, 2009 8:20 PM

Re what literary works are/might be referenced in LOST:

Philip Pullman's work is quite interesting & worth at least one read. Personally, I thought the first book in the trilogy was the best...I never made it all the way through the third.

As far as works that have been drawn upon for LOST, though, the biggie is Stephen King's The Stand. TPTB have been very open about its influence on the series (e.g., Charlie was analogous to Larry Underwood). If you haven't read it, definitely read the unabridged version. That's my only regret about the book—the unabridged version wasn't out when I read it for the first time. You'll never look at a crow the same way again...

#202. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 19, 2009 9:17 PM

I don't know about looking at a crow, but I've been known to eat crow every now and then......

CAAAWWW-CAAAAWWWW-CAAAWWWWWW!!!

#203. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 20, 2009 11:44 AM

i am undecided about awarding this season - best season ever, i have to see the remaining episodes to decide, but can say one thing for sure, i am not happy with these breaks in the middle of a season, - no new episode again this week, the broadcasters need to know that -"WE DONT NEED A BREAK" we are veterans when it comes to watching the show, WE CAN TAKE IT!

#204. Posted by: san at April 20, 2009 6:25 PM

Whoa! Only two posts for me to read today? And it's only the Monday before the Wednesday before the next Wednesday before a new show??

Shoot me now.

I think we need wedding planning updates from RNM (will crow be on the menu?), or a haiku from Cecil, or a photo caption from vacc... where the heck is vacc?

Oh well, my creative juices have been lacking some serious flow lately, so who am I to demand it of others?

I think I'll flashback to 2007 and the Mac's Lost Blog Favorite Lines Contest:

tinyurl.com/c6o32e

Now that's just good laughs. But now I gotta a fever for the flava of some Crispy Seaplanes --

tinyurl.com/dkemrt

(The cereal, people! Minds out of the gutter, please.)

#205. Posted by: Clementine at April 20, 2009 7:19 PM

@-205 clementine,
now you have another one to read, ack attack has his recap for hoth now, im going to see it now.

#206. Posted by: san at April 20, 2009 7:46 PM

Sorry was there any explanation or reason for Hurley misremembering the crucial arm cutting sequence of Empire Strikes Back?

The only possibility I could say is that Hurley was referring to Luke cutting off Vader's hand in Return of the Jedi?

But I've only see the Empire 10, maybe 15 times max.

#207. Posted by: dftr at April 20, 2009 10:54 PM

Maybe Dr. Chang is the same as Luke Skywalker, since they both get their arms chopped off. That's a logical scenario....for me to poop on! Holy boredom!

#208. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2009 9:31 AM

@181 Scooby-Dude - Great interpretation of how "What comes around goes around" may tie in to the Losties that are in 1977. I think you misunderstood how Miles' power works. He really can only speak to the dead. His holding of the football player's father's hand was just a ruse to get the money. Since he already knew he wouldn't be able to get a reading from ashes spread across a football field he pretended to be able to do it by holding the father's hands as a show since that likely is how someone who's never seen it in action would expect it to work.

@194: add it up - Funny, I don't think I ever realized Miles' last name was Strom. Can't be a coincidence, especially given that this is Lost.

@203: Red...Neck...Man - Join the flock...

#209. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2009 9:41 AM

@209/LostedIt: "@203: Red...Neck...Man - Join the flock..."

redrum ...

#210. Posted by: ealgumby at April 21, 2009 10:11 AM

ack attack has his recap for hoth now,
→ 206. Posted by: san

Minor correction (from her web site).... "Hi there. I’m Rachel, a.k.a. Ack." Her picture is posted as well.

#211. Posted by: lovelost at April 21, 2009 12:27 PM

196. Posted by: FenwayBen

There is a reason why Colin Baker is my favorite. When he was the Doctor, it was the one time I had decent TV to watch the series on PBS. I have watched the other Doctors on DVD now but he the first clearly seen Doctor will always be my favorite. I think the scripts when Tom Baker was The Doctor were the best.

#212. Posted by: berkyo at April 21, 2009 12:36 PM

→ 203. Red...Neck...Man: I've been known to eat crow every now and then......

And does it taste like chicken? ; )

→ 205. Clementine: where the heck is vacc?

There are quite a few MIA posters now...is this an indication of a lack of interest in the time-travel turn, five-year-fatigue, or that a lot of questions have been answered already?

→ 210. ealgumby: redrum ...

Hmm. As in The Shining? Or as in this RedRum?

"Three-D Spirits, Inc. was founded in 1996. Our goal was to create exciting handmade rums with exceptional quality. Today we are proud to offer three great products: RedRum, VooDoo Spiced Rum & New Jolly Roger Coconut & Key Lime Rum."

Does RedRum cause RedPain? ; )

#213. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 21, 2009 12:48 PM

Now if they were to offer DVD's of every *scene* in chronoloical order, I'd pay money for that.

→ 172. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 17, 2009 8:41 PM

On the season four DVD set, one of the extras is a chronological order of all the flash forward scenes. It was very interesting. Would love to see it expanded.

#214. Posted by: Arionis at April 21, 2009 1:10 PM

@204 san ranted:

>i am undecided about awarding this season - best season ever, i have to see the remaining episodes to decide, but can say one thing for sure, i am not happy with these breaks in the middle of a season, - no new episode again this week, the broadcasters need to know that -"WE DONT NEED A BREAK" we are veterans when it comes to watching the show, WE CAN TAKE IT!

Easy, boy, easy. Remember Season 3 when we had a - what - 13 week break in the middle of the season?

Or Seasons 1 and 2 when we never knew one week to the next whether the next show was original or a rerun? (Inspiration for www.islostarepeat.com, which still operates.)

Or season 4 with the writer's strike interruption and lost episodes?

Only one lousy repeat, and that a clip show which is the producer's method of trying to keep the non-fanatical viewers abreast of the story line.

I say we're living in the best of all possible worlds. Especially compared to that yawning abyss only 13 months away of NO. MORE. LOST. EVER.

#215. Posted by: Cecil at April 21, 2009 2:28 PM

@206 san said:

... ack attack has his recap for hoth now, im going to see it now.

Ack am a her.

#216. Posted by: Cecil at April 21, 2009 2:30 PM

My darlin' Clementine,

Haikus coming slow,
Ars longa, vita breva,
Haikus WILL happen.


#217. Posted by: Cecil at April 21, 2009 2:35 PM

AAAAAAHHHHHHHH...no new Lost tomorrow, say it isn't so. Oh, the red pain!!

#218. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 21, 2009 4:11 PM

NEWMAN: Lately, though, I've been, uh -- I've been buying the generic brand of lima beans. You know, I rip of the label...I can hardly tell the difference.
KRAMER: We've officially bottomed out. Who's our next guest?
NEWMAN: We got no one except that guy from Maybeline.
KRAMER: We need a new format. We should shut down and re-tool.
(Kramer pulls the plug and the show goes dark. Kramer exhales as they sit there for 7 seconds, silently. Then the lights come on and "Make Your Own Kind of Music" starts playing on the tape recorder.
NEWMAN: What about a guest-host?
KRAMER: I'll pretend I didn't hear that.

#219. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 21, 2009 4:16 PM

@193./ lost2theworld

I once had an elementary school science teacher spend the entire afternoon telling us the meaning of each line in the song "American Pie."

#220. Posted by: welh at April 21, 2009 5:12 PM

@-211 lovelost & 216 cecil
i apologize for my gender related mistake when referring to ack in my earlier post, i never once took the time to check out the author of the recap, what i can say is SHE has me laughing so much my face hurts, i meant no disrespect.
@-215 cecil,
i remember in previous seasons being messed around big time - you are right, i should be thankful that we have had a new episode almost every week,my hunger for a new episode sometimes gets in the way of rational thinking.

#221. Posted by: san at April 21, 2009 5:18 PM

@220 welh said:

>I once had an elementary school science teacher spend the entire afternoon telling us the meaning of each line in the song "American Pie."

My brother George has never been an elementary school teacher, but if he was, he'd totally do that.

#222. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 21, 2009 6:16 PM

In reference to Clementine's post:
We should have another contest!!! =]

#223. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 21, 2009 6:26 PM

@222: Cecil Rose - Wasn't that a famous line? "I wish my brother George were here..."

Hey, are we sure tomorrow's episode is entirely non-original material? (ie: regurgitated in a different order/perspective/whatever)

#224. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2009 7:32 PM

Hey, whatever happened to bcre8ive? I'm beginning to miss his humorous poems.

#225. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2009 7:34 PM

Not only do we know Bram from the Ajira crash when he's on the beach with Ilana, but I'm fairly certain we see him in 1977. Chang has just had Miles drop him at the hatch construction site and he calls out to "Bram" for a brief interaction.

#226. Posted by: weezie at April 21, 2009 8:02 PM

A friend pointed out to me that at least some of the equipment at the Swan construction site is distinctly not 1977 vintage. It would probably be really expensive to get vintage props.

#227. Posted by: mtncbn at April 21, 2009 9:49 PM

@213/Alaïs_Longthought: "Does RedRum cause RedPain? ; )"

flock of seagulls
gaggle of geese
murder of crows

redrum ...

although I am intrigued to explore the red pain angle ... Red Rum anyone?

#228. Posted by: ealgumby at April 21, 2009 11:09 PM

→ 228. ealgumby: I am intrigued to explore the red pain angle ... Red Rum anyone?

Mojitos for all, eh? Although I think Richard Alpert prefers his made w/New Jolly Roger Coconut & Key Lime Rum. ; )


#229. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 22, 2009 12:27 AM

I'm missing something, and hoping those more observant can help me out...

How did Miles actually deduce that Chang/Candle was his father? I didn't see that connection happen in the episode.

#230. Posted by: LostInConnecticut at April 22, 2009 12:33 AM

@230
Miles recognized his mother the third day he was there.

#231. Posted by: mtncbn at April 22, 2009 12:47 AM

http://tinyurl.com/d3qgav

This is Michael Emerson on Jimmy Fallon.

Unbelievable tallent

#232. Posted by: BTLY at April 22, 2009 9:42 AM

Has anyone suggested yet that the "incident" referred to in the "orientation" film (in the hatch, in Season 2) involves our Losties? Perhaps it zaps them back to the future (SOMEHOW Jin and Sun are going to have to be reunited) but give the 1970s Dharma kids the impression that the Losties have all been killed?

#233. Posted by: Callan at April 22, 2009 9:43 AM

@225 LostedIt nostalged:

>Hey, whatever happened to bcre8ive? I'm beginning to miss his humorous poems.

Apparently dropped off the face of the earth since the end of last season. When last heard from we were all sending him(?) 'South Park' caricatures of ourselves for inclusion in another Lost Blog group picture.

I've just dug out the email address I sent my caricature to, and send off an email bgging his(?) presence here. I'll let you all know if anything comes of this.

#234. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 22, 2009 10:10 AM

@206 san said:

... ack attack has his recap for hoth now, im going to see it now.

Ack am a her.

I have trouble with gender guessing too;)

#235. Posted by: berkyo at April 22, 2009 11:24 AM

Somehow it just doesn't feel like a TGIW this week. Can a get a whooaaa Bundy?

#236. Posted by: LostedIt at April 22, 2009 1:36 PM

In the last episode, I was struck by the chorus of crickets in one evening scene outside the barracks. It has always bugged me (PI) that – save for the poisonous spider – we never see or hear any bugs, flies, or birds (ok, one lone seagull) - the usual small critters you find on an island. So I thought all along that they simply did not exist here or it just wasn't necessary to show anyone fighting mosquitoes or whatever. But now the obvious inclusion of crickets. Hmmm. Were they all exterminated in The Incident, the Island’s own Dharma Pest Control? Or maybe it’s the high frequency experienced by the time-travelers that acts like the (supposedly effective) ultrasonic products on the market today. Or maybe I'm making too much of it, filling time until the next new ep.

Also, caught part of an old rerun last night (from 2006) on the Sci Fi channel, showing Sun with the pregnancy test kit she got from Sawyer’s medical stash. The kit was made by Widmore Labs. I don’t recall (a) where Sawyer got the kit or (b) if Charles Widmore had been introduced at that time. If only we knew then what we know now....but where would be the fun in that??

I share everybody's "no new episode" red pain today.

#237. Posted by: lovelost at April 22, 2009 6:06 PM

"I Wish My Brother George Was Here."
-- Bugs Bunny playing the piano, of course.

I had always guessed he was referring to Ira and George Gershwin, but I read online that it referred to Liberace's brother George. There's also an album "I Wish My Brother George Was Here" by Del tha Funkee Homosapien. Um, musta missed that one.

I thought I found bcre8ive on a dating website, but he was a she and the profile was removed by the time I checked so never mind.

I think we're gonna get something new tonight. But maybe I'm just being suckered by a marketing gimic.

#238. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 22, 2009 6:37 PM

@- 237 lovelost
re: sawyers medical stash, interesting piece of info, i have always been curious to find out how widmore made his fortune, as far as i know there was no reference made about him during what would have been season 2.

#239. Posted by: san at April 22, 2009 6:40 PM

TGI... Oh, nevermind.

There's no "i" in TEAM or in bcre8ve.

He played fantasy football with us until December.

Come back to us, bcre8ve! And I will hug you and pet you and squeeze you and call you George...

tinyurl.com/dxt43z

...not a bcre8ve, George??

Ohhh, George.

#240. Posted by: Clementine at April 22, 2009 7:25 PM

Where's bunnylover with all these Bugs Bunny references??

So the new perspective on the Oceanic 6 in this recap episode is that we're seeing events chronologically? Interesting revelation about who staged the wreckage. Guess that question is settled.

I love how Sayid says, "It will be extremely unpleasant for everyone." Sometimes I find recap episodes extremely unpleasant.

#241. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 22, 2009 9:54 PM

"We're not going to Guam, are we?"

Yup, still funny!

#242. Posted by: mac at April 22, 2009 9:59 PM

Major fail. They didn't show anything new... just had it in order. I guess that was the "different perspective". =/

#243. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 23, 2009 8:32 AM

sup all, first time poster...

I'd jsut like to say my favorite part of this ep was candle: "WHAT BODY?"

Can't wait for next week...

#244. Posted by: tehjamez at April 23, 2009 8:54 AM

@240: Clementine - But I can't say Sylvester, George!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OogLnq0tkOI

@243: ilovebenjaminlinusxx - Here's one thing that was "new" to me from last night: They actually stated that Widmore was the one that put the fake plane wreckage in place. I believe all of us here were under the impression that was a question still unanswered. ie: Perhaps it really was Widmore, perhaps Ben's group did it and he was lying when he said Widmore did it (y'know what I say, you can tell Ben's lying because his lips are moving), or perhaps it was even the new "third group" headed up by Bram and co. Last night, from what I can recall, was the first time they actually declared an actual culprit to the crime (outside of a character saying it on the show).

One more thing, it would seem to me that they may have put two scenes out of order. They placed Jack's sighting of his dad at the hospital prior to Locke saying that he had "spoken to Christian" who had said "say 'hi' to my son". I know they never really stated explicitly in the past which happened first, but it was always my impression that he had run into his dad much later, closer to when he tried to kill himself on the bridge (which, by the way, was conspicuously left out of the recap episode last night), which was after he started flying on the planes, which of course was after he spoke to Locke. Anyone?

#245. Posted by: LostedIt at April 23, 2009 9:35 AM

@241: Scooby-Dude - Sorry, didn't see your posting stating the same thing I had about Widmore and the plane. Let me give myself a big davidrh AHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! ;)

#246. Posted by: LostedIt at April 23, 2009 9:40 AM

→ 243
Major fail. They didn't show anything new... just had it in order. I guess that was the "different perspective".

ILoveBL...

That's an understatement for sure. And even "the order" was skewed. That recap looked like a Dharma orientation film to recruit new viewers who have previously been watching "Days of our Lost", or "As the FDW Turns".

#247. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 23, 2009 12:53 PM

Was the clip show narrated by TPTB or joe blow? I seem to recall that the enhanced repeats were done by the network, and not necessarily canon. Could the Widmore did the fake plane statement be in err?

#248. Posted by: mtncbn at April 23, 2009 12:54 PM

→ 248

Narration by Joe Blow is spot on. Think they freelanced the production on this one out to Extra Extra, ET, or Wayne's World.

#249. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 23, 2009 1:07 PM

@241 Posted by: Scooby-Dude

I love how Sayid says, "It will be extremely unpleasant for everyone." Sometimes I find recap episodes extremely unpleasant.
________________________

Did anyone else notice that that was not how the original scene, or possible a flash back scene, actually played out?

Sayid said to Ben If I ever see you again, it will not be pleasant for either one of us. Now he includes Jack as "Him" and say's If I see you or him again, it will not be pleasant for any of us.

#250. Posted by: Steve at April 23, 2009 1:23 PM

Does anyone else have a problem with Hurley whining about having to lie, and how wrong the lie is, while he is able to completely ignore the fact that he ran over and killed a guy on the beach with the VW bus?

#251. Posted by: steve at April 23, 2009 1:27 PM

→ 250
Sayid said to Ben If I ever see you again, it will not be pleasant for either one of us. Now he includes Jack as "Him" and say's If I see you or him again, it will not be pleasant for any of us.
******

Steve... nice catch. I'll have to rewatch that, but experienced a slight twitch when I heard Sayid deliver that "outtake" line as well.

After last nights commercial flop, let's hope the "The Variable" next week "approaches" the quality of its apparent kissing cousin episode, "The Constant".

#252. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 23, 2009 1:42 PM

@241 Scooby-Dude & @245 lOSTEDiT

>So the new perspective on the Oceanic 6 in this recap episode is that we're seeing events chronologically? Interesting revelation about who staged the wreckage. Guess that question is settled.

I guess I missed this. The overvoice narrator says this? Anybody got the exact words?

#253. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 23, 2009 1:45 PM

From Lostpedia. I like there 'This show appears to give us an answer'.

The episode is narrated by Nestor Carbonell

This show appears to give us an answer to one of the show's mysteries when Carbonell states that it was Charles Widmore who faked the wreckage of Flight 815.

#254. Posted by: mtncbn at April 23, 2009 1:57 PM

Watching last night recap, I thought of something that I had not before. maybe it was talked about here and I missed it.

The Freighter was Widmore's boat? And his people? Michael was Ben's man on that boat?

Who put the incredible amount of explosives on the boat? Was that Keamy's men? So That Widmore wanted to get rid of all the evidence and people who knew about the island? How was keamy going to get Ben and his men off the island? Could the helicopter fly all the way to where ever? Or was it a suicide mission?

#255. Posted by: berkyo at April 23, 2009 2:30 PM

Here's a question...

So Widmore didn't have any trouble finding/giving Des Eloise Hawking's whereabouts. If he knows her so well why couldn't she calculate out how HE could return to the island? Yes, he says "the island won't let him return" but had he tried using her calculations? She seemed to have come up with the location pretty quickly/easily. Yes, they had to "recreate" as best they could the circumstance of their first crash but then Ben tags along and he's "allowed" to return. Hmmmm....curious.

#256. Posted by: jms at April 23, 2009 2:50 PM

I still don't understand why the O6 had to lie about the island. Why didn't they go back to their homes and say, "We need help finding this crazy island b/c our friends are still there." How would that hurt the people left on the island? if anything, it would hurt thr O6 b/c they'd be put in a nuthouse. But why didn't they tell anyone that people are still there and that a search party needs to be sent STAT!? help me understand, pls. pretty pls.

#257. Posted by: Skipper at April 23, 2009 3:15 PM

@→ 250. Posted by: Steve at April 23, 2009 1:23 PM:

Actually, the first time we saw that scene, I don't remember the ep, Sayid included Ben and Jack in his threat. When the scene played out from a different perspective in a later ep, they cut out Sayid including Jack.

For this recap, they picked the original scene.

-----------------------

(Just writing to myself here, read at risk of boredom)

I'm actually getting annoyed with myself, not for still following this show, but for doing it with such dedication. I spend at least half an hour a day on this and other sites, sometimes more. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not just because I like the show. Over the years, I have become deeply invested in it, spent hundreds of hours on it. I NEED to know all the answers. And I NEED them to be satisfying. That's what annoys me, that I'm all in and depending on TPTB to deliver. Relatively speaking, ofcourse. I mean, life goes on, as Corky would say. But I'm annoyed because it has become so important to me. I mean, even though the show is awesome, It shouldn't be THAT important to me, I think. And thinking about it, the second half of the final season might be sensational. Forcing me to spend even more time with it :-P

I believe that TPTB will come up with an overall satisfying conclusion to this masterpiece, leaving several smaller, but to us very important, questions unanswered (probably commenting about them afterwards).
I don't envy them. It can never live up to expectations, not after six seasons. They need to take so many detours, to avoid the big questions about what's behind the magic. The butter has been spread thin, and by now, it's showing. This show should have been three 25 ep seasons long.

I am going to try to do what I tried and failed to during previous seasons. Stay as unspoiled as possible. Avoid the blogs, don't think about the show too much. Wait untill the new ep is available. Watch the previous ep first, then the new one. Don't think about it too much in between eps. Be passive, like the new Jacob, uhh, I mean the new Jack.

#258. Posted by: Mischa at April 23, 2009 3:55 PM

@→ 257. Posted by: Skipper at April 23, 2009 3:15 PM

The 06 were on the Island in the 70s. That, them being there, interacting with it, has already happened to the Island and it's inhabitants, when the 06 first arrive. It just hasn't happened to the 'current time' 06, the 06 who's adventures we're following on this show. So, the 06 don't tell the truth about the Island, we already know that, because then they wouldn't return to the Island at all or not in the way they end up doing on the show. It's not their conscious choice to choose their destiny however, because they don't yet know that they will eventually return to the Island and end up in the past.
So I guess they're just not thinking straight anymore. Maybe the Island does that to you. Or maybe Jacob, uh I mean Jack, does that to you. It was Jack who talked everyone into making up a story.

#259. Posted by: Mischa at April 23, 2009 4:14 PM

@ Island Hopper #247 - "As the FDW Turns" - Spot On!

Something that irked me last night on revisiting - when did Jack find out Locke was going under the name Jeremy Bentham? It isn't in their dialogue in the hospital, is it? And it's not till crazy bearded Jack starts his compulsive flying that he happens upon the obit in the paper. Sorry if I missed something obvious. Also, it seemed last night that Ben didn't know about Eloise Hawking until Locke mentioned her name. That and Ghost Hot Alex's comment in Smokey's lair convince me that he meant to kill Locke dead dead dead.

#260. Posted by: Glostover at April 23, 2009 4:17 PM

@260: Glostover - At the very least it would have been on his chart when they brought him in. He was using that as an alias and would have had that on his ID. That does bring up an interesting question, though. If he was listed as Jeremy Bentham when admitted, what would have prompted Jack to have gone to check on him in his room? That being said, I'm pretty sure someone, perhaps Hurley(?) mentioned the alias to Jack. Anyone?

#261. Posted by: LostedIt at April 23, 2009 5:09 PM

@ 255 Who put the incredible amount of explosives on the boat? Was that Keamy's men?

Keamy did it in case he died. He figured if the he died then that was it for everyone else. And, for some reason this was personal to him. He did things that he wanted to do even though he and his team were sent by Widmore. Remember when he shot Alex the look on Ben's face? And then he said, "The rules have changed."


#262. Posted by: dk at April 23, 2009 5:19 PM

→ 258. Posted by: Mischa
Be passive, like the new Jacob, uhh, I mean the new Jack.
*****

Yup. Commented last season. Ever since I first saw Jack with that "Pirate Beard", all I can envision is that Jack goes "way back".


#263. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 23, 2009 6:00 PM

We still don't know why it was wrong to trust the Captain (Gault).

#264. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 23, 2009 7:03 PM

→ 255. berkyo: "How was keamy going to get Ben and his men off the island? Could the helicopter fly all the way to where ever? Or was it a suicide mission?"

and...

→ 262. dk: "Keamy did it in case he died. He figured if the he died then that was it for everyone else. And, for some reason this was personal to him."

I didn't get the same sense from Keamy- this was a mission for a large sum of money, nothing else. His team was there to extract Ben Linus alive and return him to Widmore- how could he do that if he blew up the freighter?

They appeared to have a three-step plan: 1. Drop off the science team to neutralize the poison gas facility, 2. grab Alex to use as leverage in an effort to get Ben to surrender at the barracks, and if that failed, 3. intercept Ben at the Orchid before he could move the island.

Keamy described the explosives as an "insurance policy"- he believed he could use the lives of the people on the freighter to force Ben to surrender in the Orchid.

Unfortunately for Keamy and all of the people on the boat, he completely underestimated Ben's lack of regard for any human life other than his own.

→ 258. Mischa: "I am going to try to do what I tried and failed to during previous seasons. Stay as unspoiled as possible. Avoid the blogs, don't think about the show too much."

That seems to be as good an explanation as any for why the interaction here this season seems more tepid. Many, many of the regulars who kept this blog vibrant and interesting in seasons 3 and 4 have either dropped out entirely or rarely pop in for a quick comment.

Rewatching old episodes in seasons 1 and 2 reminds me of how fresh it all seemed at a time when we had lots of questions and very few answers. Now, even though I'm still highly invested in the show, it sometimes seems more like studying for an exam than just enjoying the storyline as it unfolds.

→ 245. LostedIt: "One more thing, it would seem to me that they may have put two scenes out of order. They placed Jack's sighting of his dad at the hospital prior to Locke saying that he had "spoken to Christian" who had said "say 'hi' to my son"."

No, I think it was correct in the recap. Starting from Jack being happy with Kate, Aaron and at work, his descent goes:

1. Hurley delivers the "you're not supposed to raise him" line and tells Jack he'll soon be visited,
2. Jack sees his father in the waiting room at the medical office,
3. Jack begins popping the pills and drinking the booze, quickly followed by jealousy of Sawyer and break-up with Kate,
4. Jack sees Locke at hospital where Locke tells him he also saw Christian,
5. Jack loses it, becomes obsessed with finding the island, and begins to fly back and forth to Sydney,
6. Jack sees the funeral notice regarding Bentham, feels guilty, and tries to jump off the bridge..and then on to the rest of "Through the Looking Glass" events.

This will sound ridiculous, but one way to place Jack's post-island events in proper order is to watch the growth of his beard....

#265. Posted by: Mizzed at April 23, 2009 8:29 PM

@245 LostedIt
Thanks. Of course Locke would have been admitted under the name Bentham since he would have had the passport Widmore gave him on him. Duh. I guess I'm so used to things being overstated and blanks filled in that I've fallen into the habit of never assuming....

@ mizzed #265 "That seems to be as good an explanation as any for why the interaction here this season seems more tepid. Many, many of the regulars who kept this blog vibrant and interesting in seasons 3 and 4 have either dropped out entirely or rarely pop in for a quick comment." *ahem* I resemble that remark! LOL The Beard-O-Meter is an excellent way to track Jack's off-island timeline, indeed.

#266. Posted by: Glostover at April 24, 2009 10:49 AM

Can't wait for next week's episode. Only thing that stinks is we're leaving early Thursday morning for our first big family vacation. It'll be a couple weeks before I can get back here to read everyone's thoughts. It's just not as good watching Lost if I can't get on here the next day and talk about it. Oh well. I'll get caught up soon enough. Basides I'll be having too much fun with the kids at Disney to miss this too much!
See ya!

#267. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 24, 2009 11:34 AM

Two days and no contact from bcre8ve. His(?) website is still up, though contentless (or at least no links on the home page.)

Who else are we missing?

En Provence

Who else would you add to the list?

#268. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 24, 2009 11:34 AM

--> 265 ... Keamy described the explosives as an "insurance policy"- he believed he could use the lives of the people on the freighter to force Ben to surrender in the Orchid.

When I think about the ship exploding, I can't help but remember that the freighter gig was always a one way trip for Michale. Michale's reason for being on board was to twofold, be an informant, and eventually blow up the ship. The first time he tries to detonate the suitcase, a flag pops up and tells him Not Yet! When the freighter does blow, Christian is there to tell him that he can go now.
Funny, that is exactly what Miles tells the ghost in the bedroom after he gets the money from the vent.

#269. Posted by: steve at April 24, 2009 11:40 AM

→ 268. Cecil Rose: Who else would you add to the list?

Meg, Clementine, & Mr. Naysayer haven't been here much...& have we heard from Vikki at all? What about Lost in VT? Three Men & a Baby (I Counted Hugo Twice)? And there are a bunch of people over in the Forums who have disappeared. I suppose we could look at the LOST map to see who's MIA.

I get to watch LOST for three Wednesdays before classes start again, but I think I'll miss the season finale... : (

#270. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 24, 2009 12:03 PM

I hate the fact that I'm not able to devote my entire work day to reading posts and making insanely brilliant observations that traditionally blow 'others' minds...but that's what a real job you care about will do.

Also, I came up with the term Desmonitions....cause that's how I roll! (slight pat on own back here)

Lastly, the new office I'm in has a fax room....unfortunately I haven't had any random Scarf sightings or Scarf hookups at all! I always thought we'd end up together...who knew I'd gravitate towards human interaction instead? 3 weeks till the big day...AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

#271. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 24, 2009 1:29 PM

Someone a while back (my apologies for being too lazy to look up who and when) mentioned something about the dead guy with the pictures of empty graves and the invoice for the old plane.

Maybe it's just me but I thought the intent of that scene was that the dead guy - whether he was a reporter or a disgruntled employee or working for Ben (likely) or whatever - was attempting to blackmail Widmore and was less than successful.

I thought it showed a couple of things...

1. That Widmore has a lot of money and therefore power
2. That Widmore is NOT infallible
3. That Widmore is pretty damn ruthless

And maybe Widmore is unable to return to the island, not because he doesn't know where it is or will be, but because he is unable to replicate his initial arrival circumstances, whatever they may be.

#272. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 24, 2009 2:15 PM

→ 268. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Who else would you add to the list?

Cecil- we're missing VACC.

#273. Posted by: Skipper at April 24, 2009 4:38 PM

Maybe all the missing posters were FOOMED back to 1977 to get all the answers we want!

#274. Posted by: welh at April 24, 2009 5:50 PM

Ok…bear with me here: (1) Locke is dead. Locke’s body is “returned” to the Island. Locke is “alive”. (2) Christian is dead. Christian’s body is transported to the Island. Christian is “alive”. So, had Christian previously been on the Island, too? And was Jack, wittingly or not, bringing his body BACK??? It fits in with the theories about events being replayed over and over, plus the posts above referencing Jacob, I mean Jack, and the pirate beard and all; so maybe Jack, I mean Jacob, and Christian have been a part of the Island for a very long time. Did Christian already move the FDW once and that’s why he could “help” Locke do it? I know someone previously suggested that Christian died in order to get Jack back to the Island, but I don’t recall if it’s ever been specifically discussed here that Christian might have had previous connections to the Island. I'm making myself dizzy with these thoughts, so I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

#275. Posted by: lovelost at April 24, 2009 7:58 PM

En Provence is alive and well, and still in Provence! I've been reading (lurking) every single week here at my favorite Lost blog. I just never come up with anything brilliant to say. I can't watch the episode until Thursday night at the earliest and by then everyone's already said everything I thought of.

Except this:
When Ben told Rousseau she should run away when she hears whispers, both my roommate and I immediately thought maybe the whispers could help her. The way Ben said it, his expression and tone of voice, just seemed like he was scared too.

I wonder if the whispers are an independent, possibly threatening element to Ben and co. I haven't seen this brought up on any other blogs either, so maybe I'm just imagining things but I think Ben is scared of the whispers. And there's nothing we've been shown (or heard) that connects Ben with the whispers or anyone else for that matter. Wasn't this the first time it was brought up on the show? Aside from Rousseau saying she hears them sometimes?

Also, I think there are less mysterious this season. We're getting so many answers now that we don't have so much to obsess about. Fer cryin' out loud, we got to see Smokie's lair!! So many elements are coming together and other things have fallen by the wayside--think the numbers, walt, etc.--I wonder if we are more hesitant to riff on a detail because so much we did disect got dropped. How much time did we spend on the numbers? and on Walt?

But I must admit, I miss VACC, bcr8tive, Mr Grimm, and others I can't think of. Fenway Ben isn't around nearly enough as well.

However now we have ilovebenjaminlinusxx, Mizzed, preacheronus and others that are new to this blog and that's nice too.

Thanks for thinking of me. Rest assured I'm totally hooked, Lost would have to really do something bad for me to stop watching!

#276. Posted by: En Provence at April 24, 2009 8:17 PM

i take back my rant re: no new episode,
i actually enjoyed the oceanic-6 clip show.
i now remember laughing like hell at the oceanic PR woman trying to walk on high heel shoes in the cargo bay of a c-130.
priceless!

#277. Posted by: san at April 24, 2009 8:25 PM

@-276 en provence.
these whispers in the jungle are confusing
but i stumbled on something on lostpedia which gives you a breakdown of all the whispers, apparently what we are hearing are 2 or sometimes 3 audio tracks playing simultaneously, it was good to hear just one voice & discover what was being said.

#278. Posted by: san at April 24, 2009 8:55 PM

→ 276. Posted by: En Provence
'En Provence is alive and well, and still in Provence! I've been reading (lurking) every single week here at my favorite Lost blog. I just never come up with anything brilliant to say.'

Same here! The only thing I have had to say this season was r/t the beer pull tab discussions. I was gonna say that now I have another bit of trivia to astound folks with - along with the fact that I have been able to quote the "This is the famous Budweiser Beer...." label in it's entirety for 25 +/- years now from memory. Ha. I miss those brain cells.
Love this season, and these discussions!

#279. Posted by: LostinVT at April 25, 2009 10:28 AM

&&&&&&&&&$$

Yeah, I'm a lurker too... I've been floating in the background, but rarely ever speak my peace (piece?)... but just in case anyone was worried, I'm still alive... and lurking.

&&&&&&&&&$$

#280. Posted by: Mr Naysayer at April 25, 2009 1:46 PM

still here.

just hate to read the 5000 word SINGLE entry comments from the semi-intelligent.

still waiting for the south park class picture from spring.

#281. Posted by: MorBid0 at April 25, 2009 11:05 PM

What to do for friends who are going through the ravages of LOST WITHDRAWAL has been foremost on my mind this evening as I set up late nursing a aching jaw due to some dental work a few days ago. (There is an off-chance that this concern is really fueled by the particular pain-killer I have ingested, but nevertheless, until my typing becomes a unreadable scramble of undefinable letter-groups, I shall do what I can to give some new direction to your internet viewing.)

It’s the least I can do for the not-blood-related folks I’ve been hanging around with for these last several years.

I thought I might point out some of the internet sites that I have bookmarked for my daily consumption of “visual and trivial rotgut”. There is that borderline fear that the revealing of these oft-visited sites will give the impression that I might be some tottering 63 year old bald headed, slightly overweight conservative Republican curmudgeon who meanders up and down the halls of academia muttering to himself about ethnomusicology whippersnappers and why the heck anybody would care about Lindsay Lohan’s view of whether the Mexican and Canadian borders should change places . . .

Well, I don’t give a flip what people think. And anyway, people who know me will tell you that I’ve lost 25 pounds in the past three months and am now a little-less slightly overweight!

So, in no apparent order, here are some of my bookmarks that you might find fun to visit.

• THE ONION - labeled as America’s finest News Source. Basically, “All the news that’s worth making up”. I notice that one of today’s lead stories concerns a hypothermic stripper who nearly dies inside an Ice-Cream Cake. Also contains lots of funny political stories - there’s a minute possibility that most of them are actually true!

• STUFF WHITE PEOPLE LIKE. Today’s “white people fixation”: being Bob Marley.
This site will captivate you for days . . .

•DEAD OR ALIVE. A favorite of folks my age. Keeps you up on . . well, who’s dead or alive. You just hope you’re famous enough to make the list - You just don’t want to find yourself there, if you know what I mean . . .

Of course, there are scores of sites that are news sources, and some that are just for entertainment. I have everything from DEATH ART ANIMATION to THE BRICK TESTAMENT (which is actually Bible stories illustrated with leggo-people). Lots of the sites I have discovered and saved because of STUMBLEUPON.COM. (A site guaranteed to help you waste hundreds of hours at the computer every evening.)
One of favorites is ARTIFICIALOWL. This is a site dedicated to derelicts, shipwrecks, abandoned buildings and junkyards of the world. It’s better than it sounds.

However (since my pain meds are really kicking in) let me leave you with one of the most entertaining “feel-good” sites in my bookmarks.

•WHERE THE HELL IS MATT?

If this doesn’t bring you out of the LOST WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME, I don’t know what else to tell you . . .

kdsnvcbne lvoi sgegvl, kfjn-3 jkdfhj oeoplnadf lq1bx[ . . . . .

I think I’m fading.

Good Night Friends.


#282. Posted by: davidrh at April 26, 2009 2:08 AM

re en provence, LostinVT et al...i too am just sitting back and lurking so far. i think part of the problem is that, from a "scientific" angle, i have nothing to add. frankly i am just happy that i can come here and read the explanations of things that make my head spin.

and as for you Mr Naysayer, glad to hear you're still around...i for one would really miss the balance you bring to discussions.

on another topic...does anyone know if the Presidential address (or whatever one calls it) scheduled for Wednesday night at 8 is going to interfere with the start of lost? I'm sure he is a great guy and all, but I don't really want to record it on my Lost disc!

#283. Posted by: surefoot at April 26, 2009 5:27 PM

@-283 surefoot
i wonder if your president likes lost,
im sure we will find out during his address if he keeps looking at his watch & sweating, but i guess he has a dvr.

#284. Posted by: san at April 26, 2009 6:14 PM

This week feels so empty.
TGIAW... kinda.

#285. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 27, 2009 8:07 AM

For those of you that need a new obsession to get you through to next week, check out this link:

http://tinyurl.com/dcnd6w

This has become a viral video sensation with an awful lot of people delving into an awful lot of detail behind a 9-minute video created by someone for a supposedly ridiculously low amount of money. I'm not sure how "simple" it was for the person who supposedly created it (personally, I think it's actually a large production company that did it and is trying to build buzz) but it's very intriguing and, more importantly, the guy uses the Lost music as the soundtrack. Quite interesting to say the least.

#286. Posted by: LostedIt at April 27, 2009 3:33 PM

@ 241 Scooby-Dude said: "Where's bunnylover with all these Bugs Bunny references??"

What's up Doc? I mean Dude?

I'm here. Only up to your post. Was on vacation with no access to email OR TV since last Wednesday. Nice break and was glad LOST was a "recap." Haven't seen it yet and I'm thinking of not reading the rest of the posts until I do so I won't be spoiled.

Have to get back to catching up from missing work so later dude and dudettes.

PS - am totally LOVING all the Bugs Bunny references. "ahhhh tha-that, tha-that's all folks!"

#287. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 27, 2009 3:52 PM

In respose --> You gloat about " calling" certain things yet you still thought Kate went back for Sawyer and not Clare. That was just as obvious yet you totally missed it. Just sayin....

)_________________________)

I dont believe for a minute kate went back for Claire. IMO she ran because she had to, and she went back for her toy plane. She is not a super deep character, and we have already seen the lengths she goes to for that toy.

#288. Posted by: steve at April 27, 2009 4:27 PM

I have had 5 full and rather insightful posts over the years, but no one seems to mention me. In the immortal words of Miles..."I'm here....I'm great too"

#289. Posted by: Rich in Baltimore at April 27, 2009 4:58 PM

OK. I can't even go to CHURCH without thinking of "Lost". My apologies to the non-Catholics, but here's what was read yesterday. Sounds so similar to Ben's doubting Thomas "sermon" to Jack, and The Most Delicous Mango Ever Eaten. Note, en Provence, that Christian doesn't eat - it's been mentioned that Locke's eating is to show he's not just not dead, but alive.

Luke 24:35-48

The two disciples recounted what had taken place on the way,
and how Jesus was made known to them
in the breaking of bread.
While they were still speaking about this,
he stood in their midst and said to them,
"Peace be with you."
But they were startled and terrified
and thought that they were seeing a ghost.
Then he said to them, "Why are you troubled?
And why do questions arise in your hearts?
Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself.
Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones
as you can see I have."
And as he said this,
he showed them his hands and his feet.
While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed,
he asked them, "Have you anything here to eat?"
They gave him a piece of baked fish;
he took it and ate it in front of them.

Mmmmm. Mangos.

#290. Posted by: Glostover at April 27, 2009 5:28 PM

Oh, sorry, I just got off the sub upon my return from the DI....circa '77.....saw myself when I was two! :)

Alais, thanks for remembering me! I too mostly lurk now, for the same reasons as naysayer, morbido, en provence, and surefoot, et al....a mix of all of them actually...I find I have less to contribute as this season, IMHO, moves from speculation to revelation, but I do check every week! And it's so nice to see that even after all the seasons, this show we all love keeps us all, old and new, coming back to ponder, wonder, and enjoy!

WGNABB

#291. Posted by: Vikki at April 27, 2009 5:45 PM

A memo from the speculative science desk:

Why did Ben have to release a pit of water to summon Smokey?

The ancient Greeks and Egyptian engineers created many machines that used water power and/or water + heat for steam to run gears and pulleys to create "magical" devices.

The release of water down a pipe could mean:
(a) the energy to turn a water gear to open a gate to release Smokey; or
(b) the energy to to turn a water gear or to release other components to actually create Smokey.

For example, what if Smokey is a combination water plus heat plus electromagnetic energy which creates a steampunk mechanical life form. (Remember the mechanical sounds when it appears in the jungle). When it is released onto the island, it appears it takes on the personality of the first person it comes into contact (like scanning that person's brain-neuron network).

#292. Posted by: welh at April 27, 2009 6:40 PM

lurky~~lurky~~lurky

{{@@}}

I'm out here, too.

Been trying to compose a 5000 word SINGLE entry, but I only have so many digits and tend to lose count after 18. (Four toes, ya know.) And when I concentrate too hard, the drool makes my fingers slip right off the keyboard. I'm lucky if I can get my whole name on a post! Maybe I should start going by my first name... "oh my"


**************************************

@Rich in Baltimore/289:

Rich, darling, where have you been? We've been waiting for Post #6 for ages!

**************************************

@steve/288:

I'm confused. Who said you were gloating? Because I can't find the original post. And somebody might need a smackdown.

**************************************

@DRH: hope the pain meds helped!

**************************************

Nice to "see" everybody... As always, it's a great tribute to the community here that we still check in, even when we have nothing to say!

**************************************

@welh/292: a steampunk mechanical life form, you say?! Why didn't I think of that?!

whhhhoooooopppppppppssssssssss

Slipped in the drool, again. A gal could get hurt around here.

:)

#293. Posted by: Clementine at April 27, 2009 7:50 PM

@292: welh - Maybe it's more like every time Ben pulls that plus somewhere in the temple the smoke monster gets a little bowl full of water poured on his "head" and he gets PO'd enough to come out of his lair. Be careful thou dost not awaketh the sleeping monster indeed!

That being said, I also like your idea of the water initiating a cascade of events that, combined, create Smokey or initiate Smokey into action somehow. My idea was mostly just being funny (although it could happen that way - it's said that every joke contains at least a little truth to it!). Yours, though, sounds a little closer to what might actually be happening.

#294. Posted by: LostedIt at April 28, 2009 8:07 AM

Stating the obvious, but my initial sentence in the previous post should have said "...every time Ben pulls the plug...". He can pull the plus as well if he likes but then it would be a minus.

#295. Posted by: LostedIt at April 28, 2009 8:19 AM

@292 welh pondered:

>Why did Ben have to release a pit of water to summon Smokey?

Maybe Smokey is water soluble and the water blocks his escape?

Have we ever seen Smokey in a rainstorm?

Who knew, maybe the only defense they've needed all along was a garden hose.

#296. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2009 10:36 AM

For those that care, the new House review is up - dead characters over there, too.

#297. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2009 10:37 AM

@ 296 Cecil Rose posited, "Maybe Smokey is water soluble and the water blocks his escape?"

Would that mean that Smokey is unable to vacation off-island? But weren't we supposing that Christian et al when they appeared off-island were Smokey-festations?

And what about that ash that circled Jacob's cabin? Our working theory was that what was kept him "imprisoned".

These island demi-deities allergic to apples, garlic, peanuts, shellfish, and kryptonite too?

What other weaknesses might they have?

#298. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 28, 2009 11:11 AM

@296/Cecil: RE: Smokey

Dharma spent millions to create huge underground stations, but did not have enough money to put in a lawn sprinkler system around the Barracks?

I can actually see Hurley fighting Smokey with a garden hose at the end of the series, with someone like Miles kinking the hose occasionally to cut off water pressure.

#299. Posted by: welh at April 28, 2009 11:17 AM

→ 296. Cecil Rose: Maybe Smokey is water soluble and the water blocks his escape?

&

→ 299. welh: I can actually see Hurley fighting Smokey with a garden hose at the end of the series...

The last line of dialogue in the last episode will be Smokey screeching, "I"M MELLLLLLLLLTING..." And won't Hurley look great in a blue & white-checked gingham dress? We just need to get a basket big enough for Vincent to sit in...

#300. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 28, 2009 12:47 PM

→ 300/ Alaïs_Longthought

Or Smokey yelling:

WALLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!

#301. Posted by: welh at April 28, 2009 1:32 PM

Oh welh...how could you miss it...

"I'm WAAAAAAALLLLLLTTTTIIINNNNNGGGGG!!!"

IIWY?

#302. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 28, 2009 2:03 PM

Nope.

#303. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2009 2:13 PM

Or, more precisely, only in points east from Kathmandu to the International dateline.

#304. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2009 2:16 PM

Com'on now, regarding the jokes.

Have you seen today's clips of M. Fox making the network rounds hyping of the S5 2 hour ending as being "mind blowing".

Starting Wed. with the D Farraaaddday centric show, We can only hope that is the case.

#305. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 28, 2009 3:40 PM

Got a link?

#306. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2009 4:11 PM

so i was just rewatching season two with my boyfriend (i've recently turned him into a lost junky, he's hooked) and was struck by the violence that the others resorted to in "the other 48 days." (which is the episode where we learn what happened to the tail section survivors). we've been so 'exposed' to the others that we've forgotten how truly terrifying they were at first. and we were told by TPTB that the violence was just a result of a couple people who were not necessarily acting out of the intentions of the group of others. But if you go back and rewatch that episode, it just doesn't fly. Remember that Goodwin actually killed a guy just cuz he was worried that analucia might discover that Goodwin was actually an 'other' if he didn't. And the raids in the middle of the night to steal the strongest males and then the children and then the females. what on earth was that about? and remember the lists? and goodwin saying how the people on the lists were the 'good ones.' was this related to the fact that smokey has something to do with egyptian gods that judge people's soul after death?

what on earth was the purpose of all this? it certainly hasn't been explained by anything we've seen so far of the others...

and even the kidnapping of walt... why do it? i understand they wanted to keep him in their custody cuz once they had him they realized he was special... but why bother to steal him in the first place?
and while i'm at it with totally unaddressed questions raised from season 1 i have to wonder if aaron will be addressed properly. remember how big of a deal was made by the psychic that he must not be raised by another?

#307. Posted by: klughs at April 28, 2009 8:46 PM

re: Missing People

All I have to say is "Curse you Lost for not starting and finishing earlier!!" (in the year, that is)

With the warm weather, there simply are too many other things to do than sit in front of a TV, or behind a computer!!

I also blame baseball! The unexpected season start of the Toronto Blue Jays has been very exciting, considering we have been leading the division until last night (where the BoSox tied us - Curses to Mac and all you other Fenway faithful) [gulp - did I just declare war?] For the love of all things holy - lose a game already!!!!

Darn - And it looks like I missed some Doctor Who talk, which I love to geek out on! Methinks I can still chime in though....

For non-Who fans - skip this, as these are not the droids you are looking for!


@196. Posted by: FenwayBen
re: "but now that I know that the 6th Doctor is your favorite, I don;t think we can be friends any more..."
& @212. Posted by: berkyo
re: I think the scripts when Tom Baker was The Doctor were the best.

The script writing for Tom Baker was superb. Heck - even Douglas Adams (Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy) was a script writer for one season!

Sadly, Colin Baker's 6th Doctor was a rough patch for the show, but not the fault of the actor himself. The BBC was a mess at the time, with all sorts of power struggles, and the script writing was just pitiful! Ratings tanked, resulting in the show being put on hiatus, later leading to Colin essentially being sacked and taking the fall.

When the show was brought back with Sylvester McCoy as the 7th Doctor, Colin rightfully refused to return to film a regeneration sequence. As a result, McCoy himself wore a curly hair wig, and thus played both 6th and 7th Doctor in "Time and the Rani".

FenwayBen - I used to feel the same as you about Colin, until I got to experience the redemption.

During summer 1999 (hard to believe it has almost been 10 years!!!), a company called "Big Finish" secured licensing rights from the BBC to produce audio dramas with the 5th, 6th, and 7th Doctors (later - the 8th Doctor was added).

Each month, a new adventure is released (originally by cd only, now mp3) featuring one of the Doctors. It is not just a book narrated by the actor - it's a fully produced story in audio format! The stories feature companions from the show, but have also created new ones for all of the mentioned Doctors.

There have been crappy stories, but there have also been some fantastic gems. The most surprising thing to emerge from all this is a re-evaluation of Colin. Among fandom, his stories are considered the best.

Sad to think of what might have been back in the 80's if only there were better scriptwriting, and a change in the show-runner!!!

If interested, check out: http://tinyurl.com/d6ch92

I'd recommend doing a google search for best episodes, as you wouldn't want to snag anything sub par to start off!!

#308. Posted by: shikotee at April 28, 2009 9:40 PM

Ummmmmm, what?

#309. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 29, 2009 10:25 AM

I admit to being a bit of a sci-fi/fantasy nerd, and I notice that Dr. Who (at least Tom Baker) and Harry Potter are very big on scarves. Is that an English thing?

I mean, I like to keep my neck warm as much as the next guy but they sure seem to take knitted elongated neckwear to the next level.

#310. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 29, 2009 11:22 AM

And let us not forget Oceanic Cindy and Scarfy! And Des' neckwear...and now that I think of it, howsabout John Locke's extension cord noose. And Faraday's skinny tie...weird...

#311. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 29, 2009 12:02 PM

Cecil ---

Here's the clip from M. Fox appearance on Letterman the other night.

http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-news/matthew-fox-on-david-letterman-no-spoilers/

#312. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 29, 2009 12:04 PM

*******POSSIBLE SPOILERS******

I was just reading the latest tv guide issue(may 4-10 the finale preview), the whereabouts of rose and bernard will be addressed before the season ends, vincent will make an appearance, there will be a wedding and we will find out how hurley got out of jail in time to catch the ajira flight. oh, and why hurley has the guitar case.

according to TPTB the season finale will be dramatic! which is typical of lost.

*******END POSSIBLE SPOILERS************

i dont know about everyone else but i cant wait!!!! :)

#313. Posted by: tiffani at April 29, 2009 12:25 PM

Today is the 100th day of the Obama presidency. Oh, and it's also a special TGIW - the 100th episode of Lost!

Coincidence? Conspiracy? Conundrum? Co-dependent amalgamation of a confluence of independently enriching events creating a completely creationistic view of the corresponding copacetic Camelot-like centenarian carryovers? Certainly! ;)

Boy, has this been a long two weeks!

Once again, TGIW folks.

#314. Posted by: LostedIt at April 29, 2009 1:00 PM

→ 311. ransomjackson: And let us not forget Oceanic Cindy and Scarfy!

Of course, Australia was settled by British emigrants (so to speak), so Scarfy on Cindy is no surprise...but I'm not sure how Arzt acquired his now-in-threads-scarf.

#315. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 29, 2009 1:38 PM

i have to wait for my next instalment of
EMD (electro-magnetic dentistry)
no new lost for poor-ole san till friday,
hope you all enjoy episode 100.

#316. Posted by: san at April 29, 2009 3:57 PM

→ 316 - EMD (electro-magnetic dentistry)

... and san. If the EMD can work on extracting a lifetime of mercury from Tuna, Yellow tail and Swordfish, we'll really have something.

#317. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 29, 2009 4:34 PM

@-317 island hopper
hmm... i hadn't considered the application of EMD for large fish anglers.

#318. Posted by: san at April 29, 2009 4:48 PM

@312 Island Hopper

Thanks for the link, he didn't seem to say much, did he?

Jimmy Kimmel would have gottem more out of him.

#319. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2009 6:32 PM

I think that's why they waited a week. They probably thought it would be clever to air the 100th episode of LOST on the 100th day of Obama's presidency.

#320. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 29, 2009 6:51 PM

Much more likely the delay was to push more episodes into the May sweeps month, when ratings determine advertising rates.

#321. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2009 8:20 PM

→ 314. Posted by: LostedIt
Wow, I only had to check the dictionary for one of those words!!

#322. Posted by: mtncbn at April 29, 2009 9:26 PM

don't know if the 100th episode coinciding with obama's hundred days is a coincidence or not, but i think he must be a lost fan. i have never seen them recap a presidential address that quickly! he must have been using a stopwatch.

#323. Posted by: surefoot at April 29, 2009 11:01 PM