The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Variable"

Season 5, Episode 14
Episode Air Date: 04/29/09

Point 1
Faraday

Eloise Hawking
Key lesson from this episode: When given the choice between a constant and a variable, always, always choose the constant.

Constants (like Desmond) reunite with their soul mates. Variables (like Faraday ... and maybe everyone else) get murdered by their mothers.

Yes, sadly, our twitchy, bearded physicist meets his end. It's a shame because his backstory segments, familial connections (Faraday = son of Mrs. Hawking and Charles Widmore) and supernatural ability to parse intense paragraphs of time-travel mumbo-jumbo make the Faraday in this episode far more interesting than the Bill-Nye-on-heroin composite we previously encountered.

So what do we learn about dearly-departed Daniel?

  • Mrs. Hawking has known for quite some time that she's going to be the death of Danny. Yet, she's also known that the Rigid Rules of Time will thwart any attempts to keep Dan away from the island and, by extension, his inevitable encounter with the business end of circa-'77 Eloise's rifle.

    I'm working under the assumption that in the post-'77 period, Eloise eventually accepts that the man she killed was her son and, more importantly, she's powerless to prevent the chain of events leading to Dan's demise (i.e. Widmore nooky -> Dan's birth -> 30 or so years of life with a wacky-smart son -> Oceanic 815 crash -> Widmore's Oceanic fake -> freighter mission -> frozen donkey wheel 1.0 (Ben) -> Charlotte's death -> frozen donkey wheel 2.0 (Locke) -> Dharma research in Ann Arbor -> Dan stupidly waving a gun in the Others' camp in 1977 -> Dan's death). Of course, powerlessness doesn't cancel out guilt, and that explains Eloise's decades of pained expressions. She knew she was going to kill her boy, and she knew she couldn't do a damn thing about it.

  • Dan crammed a lot of life into his pre-dead period. He was Oxford's youngest PhD. He got jiggy with his research assistant (the soon-to-be-comatose Theresa). He received a massive research grant from Charles Widmore (he didn't know Widmore was his dad, and I'm not sure he ever discovered Widmore was a "benefactor" in more ways than one). And, upon graduating from Oxford, his mother gave him a journal for his science drawings, time miscellany, and PG-13 stories about that English redhead with the bloody nose.

    But then it went to hell: Faraday's experiments sent Theresa to comaville, got him booted from Oxford, and -- this isn't confirmed, but it seems reasonable -- screwed up Faraday's memory. You'll recall (but Dan won't ... badumdum!) that a very ill Daniel cried like an infant when he saw the fake Oceanic 815 news footage. Until now, we never knew why Dan seemed so sick, particularly since he was fairly robust in his island scenes. Turns out, Eloise and Widmore talked up the island's healing properties to convince Dan to join the freighter expedition.

    Sidenote: Did the island cure Dan of his condition permanently, or did he revert to Bad Memory Dan during his three years off-island? Seeing as Locke was able to move around (sorta) during his Jeremy Bentham period, I'm guessing on-island cures work off-island as well. Someone should clue Rose and Bernard in to this.

  • Dan's activities between 1974 and 1977 are murky. He says he worked at Dharma HQ in Ann Arbor, Mich., but we don't know how he wormed his way into Dharma's research fold. Put another way: If a twitchy bearded castaway suddenly appeared on the unfindable island where you're running fringe-science experiments, would you give this guy the key to your lab? That doesn't make much sense. Perhaps Dan spent those three off-island years working on his own and then posed as a Dharma scientist for the return trip?

    Dharma credentials aside, Dan experiences a mid-'70s conversion. He tells Jack and Kate that the inalterable rules of time might be prone to reorganization after all (his new theory hinges on the free will of human variables). With the fervor of a born-again physicist, Dan has returned to the island with one mission: convince Dr. Chang to evacuate New Otherton so Dan can use Jughead (the leaky hydrogen bomb) to prevent a massive release of the Swan Station's electromagnetic energy. His abridged logic goes like this: If he prevents "the incident" from happening at the Swan, the Swan won't be built, Desmond won't forget to push the button, Oceanic 815 won't crash, the freighter won't set sail, Charlotte won't die, etc.

    This is precisely the kind of thinking that gets Action Shephard frothing at the mouth. I'm convinced the passive Jack we've seen for most of this season will soon be replaced by the wild-eyed Mr. Fixit who roamed the island lo those many years ago.

    As to whether Dan's revised theory is correct, I think we received a clue in the closing moments of the show when Mrs. Hawking tells Penny that for the first time in many years, she has no idea what's going to happen next.

Point 2
Jack

Sawyer
All is not well in New Otherton.

In a desperation move, Sawyer calls a meeting of the Time Travelers Society to see if there's even a slim chance he can salvage his blissful Dharma life. But Juliet -- wise, wise Juliet -- knew the con was crushed the moment Jack, Kate and Hurley arrived. In this episode, she officially closes the book on her Dharma years by telling Jack, Kate and Faraday how to disarm the sonic death fence so Faraday can track down his Other mother. Sawyer and Juliet are still technically together, but Kate's presence and the impending Dharma doom have knocked deep chinks in their love armor. (The motor-pool gunfight between Radzinsky and Jack/Kate/Faraday doesn't help, either).

"The Variable" also features the late-season character movement common in pre-finale segments. As the episode concludes, Jack and Kate are perched outside the Others' camp, Juliet and Sawyer are held at gunpoint by Radzinsky, Jin is somewhere in New Otherton, and Hurley and Miles are scrambling to pack for an escape.

Point 3
Island A few closing questions and observations:
  • Best Line: "Your mother is an Other?" -- Sawyer to Faraday.
  • Second Best Line: "Welcome to the meeting, twitchy." -- Sawyer to Faraday.
  • Third Best Line: "I'm gettin' kind of used to insane." -- Jack, in response to Kate questioning Faraday's variable theory.
  • I can deal with ambiguity around smoke monsters and giant statues, but at some point The Powers That Be are going to have to address Richard Alpert's wardrobe. Why is this guy lounging in button-down shirts and slacks while his cohorts are stuck in sweat-stained rags?
  • What lies ahead for Desmond and Penny? Ben's gunshot produced merely a flesh wound, so we know Des survives. But will the island lure him back? And how does Mrs. Hawking fit in? If she no longer knows what's going to happen, what authority does she have to pass judgment on Desmond's destiny?

That's all I've got!

Be sure to drop by the "Lost" Forum for stimulating conversation and conjecture.

Next Episode:
"Follow the Leader" -- Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet and Locke move pieces into place for the season finale. Airs Wednesday, May 6, 2009 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Review by Mac Slocum. All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

yes, I am the first, bye

#1. Posted by: sheyla at April 30, 2009 12:14 AM

1st!

#2. Posted by: ccook76 at April 30, 2009 12:14 AM

Juliet knew it was all over the instant Sawyer called Kate "Freckles" right in front of her. And she wasted no time getting that man-stealin' hussy out of her sight!

#3. Posted by: drew at April 30, 2009 12:21 AM

Quick question: Why does Richard Alpert not recognize Dan when he walks into Otherville? Dan is, after all, the guy who told Richard how to safely dispose of a hydrogen bomb. Wouldn't that sort of meeting make an impact? Do all Island residents start to experience memory problems after a while?

#4. Posted by: Lesley C at April 30, 2009 12:21 AM

Damn - was hoping to post first, just so I could say "Jays are tied for first"!!

It's the thought that counts, right?

#5. Posted by: shikotee at April 30, 2009 12:54 AM

Let's see how this group has done with speculations:

Gun-toting Ellie= Eloise Hawking. check.

Faraday the son of Eloise AND Charles? check.

Chang sends Miles and wife away to protect them from the incident (and possibly Charlotte and her mother as well)? check.

The incident at the Swan is likely the catalyst that sends the Losties back to their own time? Not definite yet, but looking pretty likely- probable check.

After some mid-season confusion, confirmation that Widmore planted the fake plane, and his courier was killed by Ben's people to grab the evidence? check.

The only real surprise was Faraday's death, a neat twist straight out of Greek tragedy. Titling the episode "The Variable" may have given the free will supporters here a brief spark of hope, but his immediate cosmic smackdown is yet another confirmation that Lost lives in a predetermined universe, otherwise known as WHH.

Despite the promos for the finale, I don't believe for a second that Jack, Hurley and Kate change the future by preventing the incident- most likely, they cause the incident. If I'm wrong, I promise to run ten laps around New Otherton wearing nothing but a man-scarf.

BTW, doesn't Faraday's death put yet another nail in the "they're all dead already theory" coffin?

#6. Posted by: Mizzed at April 30, 2009 1:09 AM

Anyhoots...

Poor Faraday!

What a crappy way to go - to be shot by your mother in the past, and to realize that she would knowingly send him out to meet this fate.

That is just so f-ed up!
Hawking is one cold lady, who like Ben, will sacrifice anything and anyone for the island!

Sorry son - no time for ladies in your life - you must work hard, hard, hard, and then I kill you!

I really liked how they finally connected the dots with Faraday's back-story.

Still - pretty crappy continuity, where they show last season's 815 crying clip, and then continue from that moment with obvious physical changes (Faraday's hair length).

Still kinda confused with the whole Journal thing. Faraday uses it to reference things when he returns to 70's island. Where or from whom did he get that info from?

Also - when will the scene (not from show) where he films Chang talk knowingly about the incident take place?

#7. Posted by: shikotee at April 30, 2009 1:15 AM

What happened to Meg is always first (MIF)? Did she relinquish that title?

Loved the episode (except for Daniel dying) and the review. Thanks Mac!

I still am not sure why Eloise wanted Dan to go to the island. Setting aside the fact that she already knew she would wind up killing him, was there something he has done on the island that needed to happen? Was it just his conversation with Chang or has he done something else that was critical?

So sad about Dan.

#8. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost at April 30, 2009 1:25 AM

@8. Posted by: Christine Loves Lost

I much more prefer Meg is Loaded First.
Not so much the thought - more the acronym! ;)

#9. Posted by: shikotee at April 30, 2009 1:33 AM

@#8 Christine Loves Lost
"I still am not sure why Eloise wanted Dan to go to the island. Setting aside the fact that she already knew she would wind up killing him, was there something he has done on the island that needed to happen?"

I think that's all there is to it--Mrs. Hawking is a fervent believer in maintaining the status quo. I think that despite her insistence that the universe operates under WHH rules, she thinks it *might* be possible for things to go otherwise, and believes that it's her job to make sure that they *don't*. So once she learns that she shot her son-from-the-future, she devotes the next 30 years to making *sure* that Daniel makes that fatal trip. From this vantage, we can see that it's not just that she pushed Daniel to accept Widmore's offer of a mission to the Island, it's that she pushed Daniel his entire life to INVENT TIME TRAVEL just so he could go back and get killed.

#10. Posted by: marissa at April 30, 2009 2:31 AM

While it seems likely that Daniel has died (the "far-away" look in an actors eyes is usually a confirm) we must keep in mind that Daniel is in the very camp of the people who saved Baby Ben, despite Ben being plugged by the Wacky Iraqi, right? We can assume that Sayid should have been able to plug Ben with one round. But he lived, and for quite some time too, before they were forced to run to Alpert and crew. I also thought it looked like the bullet wound was to the right side, which means Daniel may, just MAY have some slight chance... He fell into shock, they fix him up quick and take his soul away.

Frankly, at this point, I'd like to see Eloise take a bullet between her eyes, maybe that would knock the smug "I know everything" look off of her face!

I can't believe how much I hate this woman now! ARGH!!

#11. Posted by: The Duf at April 30, 2009 2:37 AM

If Daniel is dead, then how is he going to be around to yell at Chang in the comic con video we saw before the season started?

#12. Posted by: Ryan at April 30, 2009 2:47 AM

What if Daniel is saved by Jack? With such a skilled surgeon in the vecinity, this is still a possibility.

#13. Posted by: NotLost_ar at April 30, 2009 5:18 AM

Anyone else notice the smokey sound effects when they were at the orchid?
Is this just some easter egg they put in or does smoky just like to steal sounds

is he even around yet or been discovered for that matter

LTU-FTP

#14. Posted by: Chase Coley at April 30, 2009 6:22 AM

Why would Kate want to change WHH when that would result in her spending life in prison? If Jack never meets her, he's not testifying for her on the stand. The case against Kate seemed pretty open and shut.

Could it be the fear of the incident that caused her to help Daniel?

#15. Posted by: Steve S. at April 30, 2009 7:07 AM

Did anyone else think that the nurse the came to get Penny looked familiar? Have we seen her before?

I think that baby Charlie is going to be missing when Penny returns. That disappearance will lead to Des and Penny's return to the island.

Could also just be Desmond's return...we didn't find out what happened to Ben. His murderous self could be lurking in the shadows somewhere. It would be like Ben to take out Penny in front of Widmore. Divine justice?

Is Dan our major character death before the end of the season?

#16. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 30, 2009 7:22 AM

I don't post often, but perhaps the past will be changed the "future Losties" and then the "future" will never happen and then...the end will be Happily Ever After where all the travelers end up where they originally had tickets to be. Again, I make NO sense.

#17. Posted by: debisavannah at April 30, 2009 7:22 AM

"I can deal with ambiguity around smoke monsters and giant statues, but at some point The Powers That Be are going to have to address Richard Alpert's wardrobe. Why is this guy lounging in button-down shirts and slacks while his cohorts are stuck in sweat-stained rags? "

When Richard met Ben initially he was dressed differently...maybe he is like Chrisitian and locke now..roaming around looking alive, wearing the same outfit that he was wearing when he died..

#18. Posted by: Jag at April 30, 2009 7:32 AM

I also thought that baby Charlie would be gone when Penny went back - not sure if Daniel is really dead either.

#19. Posted by: BCS at April 30, 2009 7:44 AM

Morning all, I'm going to comment further on the epi when I get a chance later today. I just want to say that Eloise and Daniel's relationship soooo reminded me of The Manchurian Candidate, with the twist of mother offing son at the end. Mother issues, indeed!

RIP, Twitchy.

#20. Posted by: Glostover at April 30, 2009 8:14 AM

Of course El sent Daniel back...If he didn't go he would have never dropped his backpack with his magic book of secrets...empowering the others with the knowledge of physics to harness the island (and "invent things" off island).

#21. Posted by: tanstaafl4y at April 30, 2009 8:16 AM

Err... was last night's epi supposed to clear things up? cause for me...not so much. Need to rewatch for sure!

#22. Posted by: GatorGal at April 30, 2009 8:32 AM

I just want to say that Eloise and Daniel's relationship soooo reminded me of The Manchurian Candidate, with the twist of mother offing son at the end. Mother issues, indeed!
→ 20. Posted by: Glostover at April 30, 2009 8:14 AM


I agree, it is exactly what this episode reminded me of, too. A mother who believes in her son's destiny even if it destroys him..... the Mommy Issue is now added to the Daddy Issue.
By the way, I still don't think Aaron is with his grandmother... I'm betting on another twist there....

#23. Posted by: sandivon at April 30, 2009 8:36 AM

Great Hurley Quote: You guys were in the 50's? Like...Fonzie time?

I'm not so sure Daniel is dead. Between the island healing everybody and Jack healing everybody and a season finale looming large...I think we haven't seen the end of DF.

Eloise and Charles
Sittin' in a tree
K-i-s-s-i-n-g
First comes love
Then comes marriage
Then comes a time travelling wispy-bearded stammering Oxford PhD with a comatose assistant and a homicidal mommy and a Shoot Me sign on his back.

#24. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 30, 2009 8:40 AM

Did Penny and Faraday ever meet, or did she just hear about him from Desmond? Faraday is the reason they went to England.

#25. Posted by: Rudy at April 30, 2009 8:41 AM

I still feel that the reason Farraday was crying when he saw the Oceanic 815 plane on the bottom of the ocean has not been adequately explained.....and could be a very important clue.

Does anyone have any ideas?

#26. Posted by: halliwax at April 30, 2009 8:44 AM

Eloise is a skank heffer. It makes no sense to send Faraday to the island only to put one right between the numbers. There will certainly be some storyline in which he is quickened in some way. Along with Pierre Chang, I recently conducted a double blind, Dharma U. sanctioned study weighing the results of Faraday being killed off, and the results are quite simply way too complex for you cretins to comprehend.
Spoiler Alert -The reason Pierre Chang is leaving the island is his wife walked in on him and Richard Alpert. Pierre had a ballgag in his mouth, Richard was wearing a executioners mask and singing "Downtown", and Ben Linus was licking his eyes as usual.

#27. Posted by: katespanties at April 30, 2009 8:44 AM

Widmore + Hawking = Faraday
Widmore + Unsub = Penelope

GRAA Mac!

Eloise knew what would happen to her son. What is SO IMPORTANT that his sacrifice is necessary? Does his idea of setting of Jughead pay off at the end?

I wouldn't say knowing that your mother knew when and how you were going to die but still encouraged you to do things that would lead to this fate is the best way to leave the world.

Now we know why he and Charlotte were working on his memory with the cards. That was probably when his memory was in the "process" of healing. That's most likely why Charlotte said something along the lines of, "don't worry, it'll get better".

@ Mac
"Sidenote: Did the island cure Dan of his condition permanently, or did he revert to Bad Memory Dan during his three years off-island? Seeing as Locke was able to move around (sorta) during his Jeremy Bentham period, I'm guessing on-island cures work off-island as well. Someone should clue Rose and Bernard in to this."

Yeah... Rose and Bernard went to Australia to that "spot on earth" so Rose can get healed. People don't go there to stay forever. Since the island seems to be one of those "spots", they should be able to go home without getting sick again or going back to their original condition.

@ sheyla - 1 and ccook76 - 2
That was an ultimate FAIL.

#28. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 30, 2009 8:49 AM

The whole half-siblings thing is interesting, yes? We've got JACK and CLAIRE and now PENNY and DANIEL. The latter sheds some intersting light on the scene from S3 where evil Mrs. H trys to convince Des not to give Penny an engagement ring now doesn't it?

#29. Posted by: GatorGal at April 30, 2009 8:53 AM

SPOILERISH..............

From E's "watch with Kirsten" regarding next week's episode:

"One cascade of mistakes leads to one person tragically dying. Of course, someday we'll say that person's death was necessary and right, and that it closed certain important chapters in the story, and gave certain other season-six stories the launching pad they needed to really take off, but for now...it's going to suck. As we've said in the past, brace yourself for pain on the scale of Charlie's death."

Uhhh... pain on the scale of Charlie death? Eek! If it is Sawyer, I will totally lose all control.

#30. Posted by: GatorGal at April 30, 2009 8:55 AM

I sure hope that the janitor at my kid's school doesn't have the key to the gun cabinet.

#31. Posted by: lostsox at April 30, 2009 8:56 AM

@ shikotee - 7
"Sorry son - no time for ladies in your life - you must work hard, hard, hard, and then I kill you!"

Ahaha. The situation was wrong in every way but I love how you worded that.

So apparently TPTB are going to answer EVERY SMALL DETAILED QUESTION by the season 6 finale. I can't wait!!! [Even though I don't want it to be over, I do at the same time].

@ The Duf - 11
"While it seems likely that Daniel has died (the "far-away" look in an actors eyes is usually a confirm) we must keep in mind that Daniel is in the very camp of the people who saved Baby Ben"

This is what I was thinking too. Good point. Maybe that's why Ms. Hawking was so willing to get Danny to the island? She knew he would die, but then she also knew he would be saved?

RANDOM QUESTION: Where did Danny get his last name from? It's not his mother's name, Hawking. It's not his father's name, Widmore. It's FARADAY.

He probably just really wanted to have the same last name as Michael Faraday. But then he would get confused with him if he ever discovered something so huge that would put him in the books or win a Nobel prize.

#32. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 30, 2009 8:59 AM

So how does the DI get from what's happening now to the situation that they're in when the Purge occurs?

#33. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at April 30, 2009 9:02 AM

→ 10. marissa: "I think that's all there is to it--Mrs. Hawking is a fervent believer in maintaining the status quo."

Everything in Lost is interdependant on multiple other events- you change one "variable", the entire storyline would be altered. I don't think Mrs. Hawking sent Daniel b/c she knew she must kill him. She sent him because while he was on the island:

- he neutralized the gas facility, preventing Ben from killing off most of the non-Others on the island

- identified the course bearing required to get Des, Faraday and the Oceanic 6 safely off the island via helicopter

- saved Desmond by giving him instructions on establishing a constant

- put the events into place that got Des and Penny to Oxford and LA

- got the Others to safely bury Jughead

- put Charlotte on her life path

All of these events change if Daniel doesn't go to the island. The idea of personal sacrifice and redemption continues to run deep through Lost- Charlie, Locke, Des, Faraday and Hawking, etc.

BTW, it now seems that all three of the freighter science team- Miles, Faraday and Charlotte- were all children on the island at the same time- coincidence?

#34. Posted by: Mizzed at April 30, 2009 9:14 AM

@20. Posted by: Glostover
re: "The Manchurian Candidate"

Totally - and awesome movie (the original, and not the reboot). Is Angela L still alive? All we needed was a scene where Faraday plays some solitaire....

@26. Posted by: halliwax
re: Faraday crying

As mentioned earlier, they also have yet to explain how he compiled his little journal of secrets. I suspect that the answer will lie in the larger mythos of the show, which is yet to be revealed.

Faraday messed himself up with his time experiments, which scrambled his memory, and likely caused him to experience various time-flashes a-la Desmond. Is it possible that he was channeling/experiencing the loss of Charlotte?

#35. Posted by: shikotee at April 30, 2009 9:17 AM

So why was it so important for Daniel to go back to the island to meet certain doom?

I think that many are thinking too far into this. It's simple.

Daniel had to go back to the island to do exactly what he did in this episode. He explained what needed to be done to stop the incident from happening. Our season finale this year is going to be Kate, Jack, Juliet, Sawyer, Miles and Hurley all working together to set off Jughead.

SPOILER ALERT - I really think this is going to turn out like the stereotypical movie sacrifice where one person stays behind to save everyone and set off the bomb. That person (not sure how we will get to that point) will be Desmond.

#36. Posted by: Paulo at April 30, 2009 9:24 AM

One other question to the Hawking haters- if the Losties have to be on the island to prevent some catastrophe/stop evil/save the island/save the world/save the cheerleader, and everybody has to play their part, including Faraday, doesn't that make her story tragic, not evil?

Her character has known her entire adult life that her son must be sacrificed to save the island, and she did it anyway. That's far different than a Manchurian Candidate scenario where a son is manipulated for political purposes.

#37. Posted by: Mizzed at April 30, 2009 9:33 AM

This episode was great but I was also wondering how the comic con video with Chang and Faraday comes into play then…I think Dan is dead for real…The Hurley Fonzi line was awesome!...Where was Widmore when Dan got shot…I think that Eloise should have a more in depth reason for killing her own son and not stopping it…I think that Dan can change the future that is why he didn’t tell young Charlotte not to come back to the island

#38. Posted by: Deebo at April 30, 2009 9:40 AM

@ 34 Mizzed posted "BTW, it now seems that all three of the freighter science team- Miles, Faraday and Charlotte- were all children on the island at the same time- coincidence?"

Well, okay. Miles seems to have a point (Changlet) and Daniel has (had?) a point. What's Charlotte's? Could she be Daniel's constant?

I also am in the "Wee Chollie's gonna be gone when Penny comes out of Des' hospital room" camp.

#39. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 30, 2009 9:42 AM

Great episode last night (besides Daniel's death)...

But here's my issue. If they really are going to destroy this energy and make it so nothing ever happens and they all live normally la de da, won't some things be a wee bit worse?
Example A: Kate will still be convicted, and most likely put in jail.
Example B: John will still be paralyzed in a wheel chair and depressed. Fun.
Example C: Jin and Sun will still hate each other.
Example D: Hurley will still be crazy and rich.
Example E: Jack will still be dealing with his father's death and most likely become a raging alcoholic.
Example F: Charlie will still be a ginormo druggie. But I suppose he'll at least still be alive.

I think you get the gist. Basically everyone's lives sucked until they met each other/arrived on the island.

Maybe in the process of trying to fix everything (ahem Jack) they will end up being the cause that everything happened. The bomb will somehow release the energy (thanks Jack). I'm guessing this is the accident.

#40. Posted by: brotherfromanotherother at April 30, 2009 9:47 AM

@ 21 tanstaafl4y

"Of course El sent Daniel back...If he didn't go he would have never dropped his backpack with his magic book of secrets...empowering the others with the knowledge of physics to harness the island (and "invent things" off island)."

Have to rewatch but I'm pretty sure that previews for next week showed the Losties with Dan's journal not the others.


@35 shikotee

"they also have yet to explain how he compiled his little journal of secrets"

Daniel was given the journal upon his graduation from Oxford. He had the whole time that he was working on his time travel experiments at Oxford to fill it with secrets. It was probably used as a tool to help speed his recovery, which is why we saw him studying/exploring it during his early days on the island.

#41. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 30, 2009 9:53 AM

Can someone explain to me why Sawyer (so yummy) is angry Jack/Kate/Etc came back? Didn't they expect them back at some point? I know they've made a life for themselves- but I'm confused by his bitterness about it.

BTW- you guys are too smart and I'm contemplating not reading anymore bc nothing is a surprise when it happens bc all you brainiacs figure it out 3 seasons ahead of time!

#42. Posted by: Page Whitson at April 30, 2009 9:54 AM

I thought it was incredibly foolish of Penny to leave baby Charlie with "a nurse," given all that she and Desmond have been through. He's gonna be snatched.

Several people have referred to the comic con video with Chang and Faraday. I haven't seen it; anyone have a link?

#43. Posted by: DJ Ativanex at April 30, 2009 10:01 AM

Am I missing something? How does Daniel know what's going to happen on the island at the hatch 6 hours from the time the episode was taking place yesterday?

In my mind, I assumed he must have traveled to '77 before and actually saw what took place there. Hence, the notes in his journal and how he knew to find Chang to warn him (sort of like that movie Momento). Then, he eventually gets to the 2000's (which is why he is all screwy), loses the memory and doesn't quite understand why the footage of the fake plane upsets him, has the exchange with Widmore to motivate him to go back AGAIN, and then he starts to try to prevent the chain of events now that he realizes the differences betweeen constants and variables...

Is this possible? Or am I missing a major chunk that explains this differently?

Any help y'all could provide would be great....thanks!

#44. Posted by: VIkki at April 30, 2009 10:02 AM

Is it understood why Eloise told Penny that Desmond was shot because of her son Daniel? I don't quite see the connection...

#45. Posted by: kerPow at April 30, 2009 10:05 AM

I agree that I don’t see how Daniel was responsible for Ben shooting Dez unless cause Dan sent him to Eloise and he met Ben which led him to Penny…I really wanted to see more of what happened in Ann Arbor in ’77…I to did get the feeling that Daniel is reliving the events over and over again or maybe he is time jumping…Anyone think that Eloise meant literally that Dan needs to “make time” when she said that to him playing the piano

#46. Posted by: Deebo at April 30, 2009 10:17 AM

@6: Mizzed - Personally, I had no idea Widmore was Farraday's daddy. I know some people speculated it but I was as thrown as the next person after TPTB sent us in a completely different direction when they said Widmore had a child off-island. Had no idea there was a second progeny out there.

@24: ransomjackson - Awesome poem/song.

@26: halliwax - I agree. I'm not so happy with this episode. It didn't really do much for me in terms of filling in questions about Farraday's background for us. More like it created a whole new thread to his background that we didn't really know about anyhow. As for the questions we really wanted answered, like why did he say he's known about and studied the island his whole life or why he was crying when he saw flight 815 crash or what really was his purpose in going back to the island (can anyone state anything, ANYTHING, that he has done that has changed any part of the story? I mean, he's filled in some facts here and there for people but has he really done anything that changed anything?).

Ok, now that I've said that, I've read post 34 by Mizzed and have SOME answers, although Mizzed I don't agree that he put Charlotte on some path in life. Fact is she really didn't think much about it except that some scary guy told her never to come back to the island. Overall, I don't see his going to the island being much help really. More an enabler here and there, perhaps, but really, Eleanor sends her son back to die for the petty changes and input that he made/provided? Doesn't make sense.

@28: ilovebenjaminlinusxx - Hadn't made the connection/recollection about Charlotte testing his memory. Here we all thought at the time that it had something to do with something that was starting, not something that was finishing/healing. Nice catch!

@40: brotherfromanotherothe - Agree with your assesment of what would happen if they prevented the "incident" and everything that happened from it. Why would any of them want to "go there"? That being said, I think we all have been positing for a while now that they would actually be the cause of the incident rather than the preventers of it. Big shout out to myself for calling Jughead as being front and center in the incident! I qualify that, however, with the fact that I said Jughead would be the source of the reason for building the hatch not the cure for it. I guess we'll see if Farraday's right. Somehow I'm leaning in the direction of my original deduction. I'm still thinking that the bomb with not be the source of preventing the energy release but the cause.

Ok, going to post this now and see how many more have shown up since I started reading/typing.

#47. Posted by: LostedIt at April 30, 2009 10:19 AM

I think Daniel is dead ~ after reading - http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2009/04/losts-shocking-death.html - I'm assuming that means that Daniel is the "fan-favorite" death of the season.

I also think Eloise's dedication in his journal ... as well as all the painful looks she had around him ... all that was indicative of the fact that she knows she killed him and so he's dead.

Plus her slap in the face chat with Widmore where she mentions that she had to "sacrifice" him - again, knowing that encouraging him to go to the Island would be the death of him.

So I think he's dead - no healing, no surgery ... that's it; kinda sucks, but I honestly think that I'd rather him than one of the other characters.

#48. Posted by: Lost-in-NZ at April 30, 2009 10:23 AM

@45: kerPow, @46: Deebo - I too didn't get why Eleanor said that it was her son's fault last night as I watched the show. However I just remembered that Farraday knocked on the hatch door and told Desmond to go see his (Farraday's) mother. If Desmond had never traveled with Penny to San Diego they would not have been there so conveniently for Ben to visit and attempt to kill Penny and shoot Desmond in the process.

#49. Posted by: LostedIt at April 30, 2009 10:25 AM

Daniel should be a little boy on the island at the same time that Eloise kills the adult Daniel. Right guys? We don't know his exact age, but he's at least the same age or older than Charlotte and she looks to be about 5 or 6 on the swing set. Thoughts?

#50. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 10:26 AM

Ok, here's a thought that occurred to me as I'm reading through all of the posts today. It would appear that everyone who has left the island and returned is slowly dying off. Charlotte, Farraday, that leaves Miles and who else? We could count Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley but I don't know if they were on the island long enough to count as residents.

#51. Posted by: LostedIt at April 30, 2009 10:28 AM

I know this is Hollywood - and these are just actors... but Faraday has very brown eyes... but Eloise and Charles (Widmore) have extremely BLUE eyes... I felt like the camera really focused on eyes this episode so that I made this observation. Can Daniel REALLY be their son? Can two blue-eyed parents produce a brown-eyed child?

Also - I'm with the rest of you that perked up when the nurse told Penny that the nurse would watch her son when she went to Des. I kept waiting for Desmond to say, "Where's Charlie?" I replayed the scene to look at the nurse and the nurse-sitter and neither rang a bell.

#52. Posted by: WolfMom61 at April 30, 2009 10:30 AM

You know back when charlotte dies and tells Faraday about "the guy who was sooo scary".....I'm thinking along the lines of guy behind dumpster in Mullholland Drive....not Faraday with a cracking voice..."get on the sub, ok". what the hell was so scary about that?

Agent for lady who plays Eloise...get this lady some scripts....Misery part deux, Jason Vorhees mother....whatever that lady is creepy.

#53. Posted by: Diggler at April 30, 2009 10:36 AM

@53

Remember Dan didn’t tell her to not come back I think that he was trying to change the future and that is why they purposely didn’t show Daniel telling her not to come back but they did pan from the outside of the scene which makes me think that we didn’t see the whole conversation

#54. Posted by: Deebo at April 30, 2009 10:41 AM

I have a few complaints about the ep.

One:
Why did Kate say they needed to bring guns? I do like 15. Posted by: Steve S. about this, but I'm still iffy on this.

Two:
Why did Dan go walking into the other's camp waving and shooting????? To me it seems that he was bound to be shot by his actions.

Anybody have a theory about this?

#55. Posted by: shake_alive at April 30, 2009 10:42 AM

@ 53 Diggler posted "...whatever that lady is creepy."

To this day, I remember Fionula Flannigan (sp?) from an old 70's TV series called something like How The West Was Won. I think it also had Bruce Boxleitner and possibly James Arness. She was quite the stunner with very long red hair. I thought she was the next Maureen O'hara.

But I was like very young, possibly not even born yet, with images of sunken planes in my head, and lots of bloody noses.

#56. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 30, 2009 10:44 AM

Just a quick observation that may not mean anything:

When Daniel and Miles jumped into the Jeep to go to the Orchid, Dan had on an all black jumpsuit. When they arrive at the Orchid then Dr. Chang shows up, Dan has on a grey jumpsuit. Not sure what color jumpsuit he has on when he's shot by his bitch of a mom, but maybe.....well, you know.....

Also, did anyone notice the tent (ANTT) that Richard walked out of???...it was marked Sephora!

#57. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 30, 2009 11:03 AM

TPTB said in their recent pod-cast that they are not going to wrap-up every little thing. They used Libby’s story as an example and said her story is done even though there are still some questions. They can’t do it all. Faraday’s story is done-- he is dead. Why did he cry when he saw the fake plae underwater--- he was simple “messed up” and most people might cry normally. Mrs. Hawking’s story is probably done too.

The Incident will probably bring the Losties back to 2008, but the preview saw Jack and Sayid swimming into a cave (Temple?). Maybe that’s how they get back to 2008—and The War.

Des and Penny should just live their happy life—their story can just end (And with those sexual harassment charges . . . ). If Des is around next season, getting back (or getting involved) with the Island again could have something to do with something bad happening with his family, yes, but I hope not. Maybe with his connection with Faraday (and Penny’s too) will lead him to remember/say, “I have the answer, Penny. I know how to rescue all of them! I need to go back to the Island!”

#58. Posted by: Bus Said at April 30, 2009 11:06 AM

Has anybody reached the conclusion that baby Charlie is really adult Charlie who will be kidnapped and sent back in time to save his dad in the future???

#59. Posted by: Really Lost at April 30, 2009 11:13 AM

I'm not so sure Danny boy is dead. Jack is right around the corner so - who knows? Not me. And I also think Penny and Des will be missing one small child. When they said, "Oh, someone will watch him," I thought that was not a good sign.

I can't believe I have to travel to CA on the last day of the season and may not be able to watch! Thank ABC for having it on-line!!!

#60. Posted by: dk at April 30, 2009 11:26 AM

@ 55 Why did Dan go walking into the other's camp waving and shooting????? To me it seems that he was bound to be shot by his actions.

Not until I read this did I think that maybe Dan knew he had to have a gun to protect himself from his mother. That he knew she would have a gun and try and shoot him. So he knew he had to protect himself from her. But - oops - he didn't.

#61. Posted by: dk at April 30, 2009 11:30 AM

BTW - Just checked Ms. Flanigan's IMDb page...

She starred in HTWWW in 1978-79.

Funny coincidences...she also starred in the 2001 movie The Others (with Nicole Kidman). AND in 1969 she played a character named Penelope in Sinful Davey. And in 1984 she played a character named Charlotte in Reflections.

She also appeared in 3 iterations of Star Trek (NG, DSN, and Enterprise).

But then again she was in 1984's Ewok Adventure so I guess it all evens out.

#62. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 30, 2009 11:36 AM

Maybe sounding a little wacky... but what if baby Charlie (Charles!) is in fact the young Charles Widmore and has been kidnapped from the hospital and sent back to his past on the Island... Desmond and Penny would be parents of Penny's father, who hates Desmond... Now THAT'S some "daddy issues"! ;-)

#63. Posted by: fpalma_is_lost at April 30, 2009 11:47 AM

As far as why El had to make sure Daniel made it to the island on Widmore's freighter-- Is it possible that Daniel needed to be there, and events needed to happen as they did, so that when Daniel left the island in 1974, to do his research - he actually created the Lamp Post for Dharma. So there would be a way for the island always to be found. El said it was created by a very wise man , or something like that??

#64. Posted by: thelostwaltz at April 30, 2009 11:55 AM

This is my new Theory about Lost’s 2008 events which they will get back to soon: . . . Dharma (Ann Arbor/ Hanso) is coming back to fight The Others/Hostiles in this coming war next season. Dharmites have their reasons: their Purge, banishment-- couldn't get to the Island until now (only could send baskets to the Swan as they think they still had it? Maybe they need to send 1000 for one to get on the Island?). Maybe Ben hid the Purge itself for a long time, got ahead of their efforts, sabotage. . .
The Losties made MAJOR Island changes in their first 108 days—The Hatch blowing up/flash, Underwater explosion & the two other communication stations. Sub gone. Many things that have limited Ben’s powers/ thus limiting his previous advantages. All makes it possible for groups to communicate/ plan/ return. Ben more desperate/ has a challenger in Locke for leadership/ using the killer Sayid. . .
Richard, the “high priest,” (Not leader unless he NEEDS to be, maybe walking dead) & The Others had reasons for the Purge (experiments maybe on them?, secret stations & why have a station with/making toxic gas?) The Purge was a preventative move for The Others in 1992 about to be killed themselves by Dharma. The Others' leadership was Widmore, taken by Ben. Widmore wants it back---sent the freighter to get Ben off—
Ben and Widmore have been fighting each other on & off island (with Syaid as one of many assassins/ operatives). Maybe Ben and Widmore have been fighting Dharma off Island too, to keep the Island hidden, slow their efforts.
I do think Ilana and Bram are Dharma and getting their on Adjira 316 with their big silver box is their first success to get on the island for a while. Prep/ scout for the war. Ben knows it with his "Can I help" line, but he also knows he can't just kill them right off the bat as that might bring in Dharma before Ben is ready. Dharma may not care who Ben is as they want the whole island, not him. Ben, now heading to The Others’ big hideout, is now supposedly going to help Locke get the Island ready for the war. Ben will of course plot to kill Locke, but do it in his way, “Make it look like an accident,” you know. . .
I thought the Losties might be stuck in 1977 and get old on the Island, kept themselves hidden with The Others, but someone suggested somewhere that they also go back to the mainland to see/help/make themselves get on that first Oceanic 815 flight. . . handing so & so a folder, manipulating . . . If that is the case I will be so mad. Maybe Ben, Richard and Mrs. Hawking think they must “make” things happen, make the O6 go back, make Danial become a scientist, etc., but not all would go for that . . . Whatever happens, happens (WEHH) school here. . . seems to get things the way they are supposed to be anyway.
To make it interesting, maybe ONE of the Losties/Freighter-ites is 66 years old and shows up having been with The Others for 30 Years on the Island, but no more than that, please. No. . . no . . . no, do not “bring it full circle” where Season 1, Episode 1 is repeated AGAIN in the series finale in 2010.
What happens, happens, I always think—some tweaks, small pebbles being moved, corrected, but the Island’s river keeps going forward and can’t be changed.
My ideas for next season . . . I am sure the ’77 Losties will be back in the 2008/present on the Island (WEHH, Via “The Incident” maybe?), struggling with new “invaders” again/ (Dharma?). Maybe getting to know The Other’s with Locke their leader, the one who brings in the Losties for “The Coming War.” What is Sawyer and Juliet wind up on Dharma’s side and Jack/ Kate join The Others???
But I really I want to see the flashbacks of The Others’ story, the Ancients, Richard’s, Black Rock Ship, Jacob’s story and whether or not Locke (anyone) goes WAY back in time or goes way into the future.

#65. Posted by: Bus Said at April 30, 2009 12:04 PM

Please help me decide if I am going nuts, but when Charles Widmore showed up at Daniel's house while he was crying over the news...I swear I heard Widmore call him "Father Daniel." Am I crazy?

#66. Posted by: saphir at April 30, 2009 12:49 PM

@52 - I also noticed the intense blue eyes of Ellie and Charles. based on my memory of high school biology (20+ yrs ago), it is not possible for 2 blue-eyed parents to have a brown-eyed baby. The reverse could happen if they both carry the blue-eyed gene, but it's recessive so the brown would always show in the parents.

This maybe an error by TPB, or it could be that Widmore really isn't Daniel's father. He did seem like he grew up in the US, not the UK.

Also, I've thought for a while now that Widmore and Ben are on the same "side" just fighting for leadership role. Ben could easily have had Sayid kill Widmore (after all, Sun was able to approach him on the streets of London). The coming "war" IMO is Dharma(ajirans) and the others...

BTW I loved the theme of sacrifice at the end... I wonder what sacrifices the island will demand from Jack, Kate et al?

#67. Posted by: Lost @ work at April 30, 2009 12:59 PM

I only watched the ep once last night, but I thought Daniel said, "This is our present. We can still die."

-50 Skipper: I, too, expected to see Lil Dan in the camp. When he said to Ellie, after she shot him, "I'm your son", I was sure the camera would pan to a little boy.

There were a lot of things in this ep that didn't sit right with me. For one, Sawyer had no reaction to Juliette blurting out the fence code. And Dan waving the gun...first with Horace, then with The Others. It's like he knew he was going to die, but he didn't know at whose hand. And then Penny leaving her son with an unknown nurse. And why RA didn't recognize Dan, although he did say "Do we know each other?"

Was it significant that Daniel took the cannister and put it near the wall? I know he was trying to get close to Chang and the conversation, but I assume the cannister IS metal....

#68. Posted by: lovelost at April 30, 2009 1:09 PM

@65---Season 1, Episode 1 is repeated AGAIN in the series finale in 2010"

This is what will probably happen.

Something will make it where 815 does not crash. We have an airport scene of everyone getting their luggage including Charlie, Eco, Boone, etc.

Follow through with everyone getting back to their lives.

Last scene. Ben is in a Los Angeles Dr's office. The Dr. comes in, "I'm Dr. Sheppard. What can I do for you." Last shot--- Bed's Bug Eyes with a knowing look!

Might work

#69. Posted by: Afriendabc at April 30, 2009 1:12 PM

@mac

>But then it went to hell: Faraday's experiments sent Theresa to comaville, got him booted from Oxford, and -- this isn't confirmed, but it seems reasonable -- screwed up Faraday's memory.

I thought last night he told his mother "I tried it first on myself", i.e. before Theresa, which seems like confirmation to me.

@-,-'----

@4 Lesley C asked:

>Quick question: Why does Richard Alpert not recognize Dan when he walks into Otherville? Dan is, after all, the guy who told Richard how to safely dispose of a hydrogen bomb. Wouldn't that sort of meeting make an impact? Do all Island residents start to experience memory problems after a while?

Would you immediately recognize someone you met for fifteen minutes twenty three years ago, especially if/since that person hadn't noticeably aged in the iterim?

@-,-'----

@43 DJ Ativanex asked:

>Several people have referred to the comic con video with Chang and Faraday. I haven't seen it; anyone have a link?

http://tinyurl.com/dneasf

#70. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 30, 2009 1:13 PM

ilovebenjaminlinus @32 RANDOM QUESTION: "Where did Danny get his last name from? It's not his mother's name, Hawking. It's not his father's name, Widmore. It's FARADAY"

Sorry if someone else said this, but Hawking seems to be a married name (Mrs.) so maybe she gave Dan her maiden name and it's Faraday?

@35 shikotee

re: "The Manchurian Candidate"

"Totally - and awesome movie (the original, and not the reboot). Is Angela L still alive? All we needed was a scene where Faraday plays some solitaire...."

Yep, she's still alive, and on Broadway as we speak in "Blithe Spirit". She was only like 2 years older than the actor who played her son!

#71. Posted by: Glostover at April 30, 2009 1:16 PM

@70 -- Thanks, Cecil Rose! I'll have to watch it tonight -- my work computer/firewall is blocking it :-(

#72. Posted by: DJ Ativanex at April 30, 2009 1:22 PM

I have one major question that I did not see addressed in anyone's posts: If Daniel exists in the present (i.e., as part of the freighter team), then how could he possibly have died in 1977?

Theories, please!

#73. Posted by: Paula V at April 30, 2009 1:26 PM

"Her character has known her entire adult life that her son must be sacrificed to save the island, and she did it anyway. That's far different than a Manchurian Candidate scenario where a son is manipulated for political purposes."

→ 37. Posted by: Mizzed
I was referring to her modus operandi rather than her motivation, which is indeed tragic.

#74. Posted by: Glostover at April 30, 2009 1:28 PM

All of us assume that Widmore is the father of Daniel. I think there has to be some significance of Hawking slapping him outside the hospital when he calls himself that.

I think Faraday's brain issues came from trying out his time travel expierments on himself first. He didn't have issues like Theresa did because of his constant. I think he may have visited his own future in his flashes, which was what set off the waterworks when he saw the faked wreckage. He rememebered without remembering what was going to happen to him.

I think this is one of those episodes that everyone will come back to at the end of the season, and things will make alot more sense.

#75. Posted by: The Other Other at April 30, 2009 1:30 PM

→ 66. Posted by: saphir
Please help me decide if I am going nuts, but when Charles Widmore showed up at Daniel's house while he was crying over the news...I swear I heard Widmore call him "Father Daniel." Am I crazy?

---------

saphir... not going crazy, maybe just a nose bleed. Just rewatched and no reference to "Father Daniel".

Another good line.

Hurley - "You guys were back in 1954. Like Fonzie times"?

Judging by the previews, looks like a 2008 reunion for the Losties.

-----

Per an earlier post, Wardrobe malfunction. Yeah Daniel has definitely got the sun sensitive Dharma jump suit that changes shades.

#76. Posted by: Island Hopper at April 30, 2009 1:34 PM

So, just a side note, that may have been mentioned at some point in time, but the actress that plays Daniel's mother, Fionnula Flanagan, also played Data's "mother" in STTNG. She wasn't nearly as creepy in that episode, even though she turned out to be an android too........

#77. Posted by: stilllost at April 30, 2009 1:50 PM

@73: Paula V - This is going to kind of be a rehash from a conversation a few weeks ago, but here goes. Present-day Daniel left the present and went back to 1977. He does not exist in the present day while he went back to the past. There is also his younger self that exists in 1977 that is a distinct and separate entity than the one that went back into the past. The younger self has not had any of the experiences that the older one that came back in time has had. The older one dying in whatever time period his body is sitting in (1977 or the present) has nothing to do with the younger one at all. They exists along different points of the same personal timeline but at the moment in 1977 their bodies are both there. Anything that happens to the younger one the older one would of course know about because it happened to him in his past. Anything that happens to the older one the younger one would never know about just as you would never have know about this post yesterday but here you are today reading it and you will know about this post for the rest of your life (or until you forget about it tomorrow or later today... ;) ). So to answer your question, older Farrady dies in 1977, not younger Farraday. This does not affect anything in his personal timeline from back in 1977 and forward because that is a separate part of the same personal timeline. I've probably only made this more confusing. Sorry.

@75: The Other Other - As far as I can recall, I think people doing mind-time-traveling like Desmond and the others that died from the experience all went backward to inhabit themselves in the past. I don't recall any of them ever traveling forward along their lives. That makes sense because, from a time perspective, that hasn't happened yet so how could they inhabit their own body in the future if it hasn't gotten there yet through whatever experiences it (and everyone/everything around them) needs to go through? Then again, Desmond WAS able to see into the future (a la Charlie's multiple possible deaths) so who am I to say one couldn't actually inhabit one of those possible futures? Oh, my nose is bleeding like a rubber hose...

#78. Posted by: LostedIt at April 30, 2009 2:10 PM

@41. Posted by: lost2theworld
re: Faraday Journal

I don't think you got what I was saying. In this episode (will have to re-watch to confirm), it seems like he refers to entries within the journal to tell him what to do - such as - Go to the Orchid and meet Dr. Chang.

The impression I got was that the journal had specific 1977 island info - where and when did he get that from?

@65. Posted by: Bus Said

Dude - Spacing is your friend! Just looking at your post gave me a nose-bleed, so I couldn't read it!!!

#79. Posted by: shikotee at April 30, 2009 2:21 PM

@→ 52. WolfMom61

*I know this is Hollywood - and these are just actors... but Faraday has very brown eyes... but Eloise and Charles (Widmore) have extremely BLUE eyes... I felt like the camera really focused on eyes this episode so that I made this observation. Can Daniel REALLY be their son? Can two blue-eyed parents produce a brown-eyed child?*

Yes, blue-eyed parents can have brown eyed children. The genetics lessons we learned in school were simplified; IRL eye color is influenced by hair and skin color. (I researched this years ago as my blue-eyed parents have my brown-eyed sister and me with green eyes.)

*"Where's Charlie?"*
I think that baby Charlie may be both Charlie of Driveshaft and possibly Widmore. The writers *never* repeat names on this show unless there is a direct connection.

#80. Posted by: Boharpe at April 30, 2009 2:23 PM

@30- Pain on the scale of Charlie's death...

I don't even like that you wrote death and Sawyer in the same comment, GatorGal. It makes me feel icky inside just thinking about it. The only thing worse would be Des's demise...especially after he had that "I said I'd nevuh leave ya, Pen" line. It seems like he's tempting things.


@39 and others
I was yelling at my tv for Penny to not leave Charlie out in the waiting room with that Hawking lady lurking nearby. Are you kidding me? After your hubby being shot by a lunatic, you leave your baby boy unattended?!? Penny, not a smart move.

Laughed out loud at how quickly Juliet rattled off the numbers to the sonic death fence after the Freckles comment. Could not get rid of Kate fast enough. Even if this Dharma thing goes to crap, she's going down swinging. I like that.

Dr. Chang is truly a tool. I think I'll just have to call him DoucheDad from here on out. It fits.

#81. Posted by: lardiea at April 30, 2009 2:36 PM

Thanks, LostedIt Post 78. I get it; old/young Faraday coexists in the same time period, like old/young Myles.

Separately, Finnoula Flanagan was the housekeeper in the film "The Others" with Nicole Kidman! You can't make this stuff up. xoxo

#82. Posted by: Paula V at April 30, 2009 2:41 PM

How about when Faraday and Miles are sitting in the jeep. Daniel has his notebook out, checking his watch - when Dr. Chang pulls up. Daniel comments "Right on time".
Was he merely waiting for Chang's arrival, or is it possible that he KNEW (time loop?) that Chang was going to arrive at that moment, bc he's lived it before??

#83. Posted by: vintaag at April 30, 2009 2:45 PM

I don't think that Eloise knew she was going to kill Daniel. Remember what Daniel said to Jack when Jack was treating his wound. That they are in their current lives and can be killed. That what happens to a person (I forget who Daniel said) does not enter the person's awareness until it happens in his/her personal timeline irrespective to the when a person is. Even though Faraday was shot in 1977 (say age 30), his 2004 person (say age 27, 30 in 2007) would not know it because it didn't happen to him yet in his actual life.

Therefore, when Eloise shot Daniel is when she would know it the moment it happened in her 2007 timeline, like Desmond knowing to find Eloise in his present only occurred after Daniel actually went to the hatch and told him in his past.

#84. Posted by: genepools at April 30, 2009 3:01 PM

→ 84. Posted by: genepools

Brilliant.... I forgot about that. Makes sense. Eloise did not know that she would kill Daniel. The memory popped into her head while she was in 2007 after it simultaneously happened in 1977. Did I say brilliant? It’s brilliant! I can stop hating her now.

#85. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 3:09 PM

***** SPOILERS *****

Watch the last Comicon video again.

#86. Posted by: Keith at April 30, 2009 3:15 PM

I sure hope that the janitor at my kid's school doesn't have the key to the gun cabinet.
→ 31. Posted by: lostsox

I sure hope your kid's school doesn't have a gun cabinet.

#87. Posted by: ramonomar at April 30, 2009 3:15 PM

@ 75 Other Other
"All of us assume that Widmore is the father of Daniel. I think there has to be some significance of Hawking slapping him outside the hospital when he calls himself that."

Great observation OO - yes it would be cool if there is a Faraday back in 1954 whom Ellie loves and loses (at the hands of CW himself, perhaps?)- maybe Widmore shares Ben's penchant for appropriating other people's children.

On the "loss on the level of Charlie" - do we think Dan is it? Seems Charlie was more beloved, but they do seem to be parallel supporting characters.

Also, the fence's 141717 code numbers - 4 and 7 were also prominently displayed apartment numbers at Miles' mum's apartment complex - does anyone else think these new numbers are significant?

#88. Posted by: Glostover at April 30, 2009 3:27 PM

@ Lostsox #31...

I hope your kid's school doesn't have a gun cabinet.

#89. Posted by: Kev1 at April 30, 2009 3:33 PM

*"Where's Charlie?"*
I think that baby Charlie may be both Charlie of Driveshaft and possibly Widmore. The writers *never* repeat names on this show unless there is a direct connection.


→ 80. Posted by: Boharpe at April 30, 2009 2:23 PM

--Holy Nosebleed, Batman! You mean, Charles Widmore IS Driveshaft Charlie???? Maybe that's what he meant when he said "You All, Everybody..." on the other hand, uhhhh, maybe not.

P.S. speaking of Driveshaft Charlie, what the heck does Hugo have in that guitar case??

P.P.S. another random question- what's the deal with the Tail-ees kids? It looked like they were important back then, now no mention anymore.

one more P.P.P S. Why are The Others living like primitive settlers in tents and stuff? Did someone answer that before and I missed it?

#90. Posted by: sandivon at April 30, 2009 4:15 PM

I really want to see Radsinski's back story.

That man is SOOOOOO high strung and paranoid - who trusted him with a gun?

I loved it when he complained about being shot in the hand by a physisist!!!

Also loved Sawyer's line about this fist slipping!!!

So Dr. Chang is starting to suspect time travel is possible and linked to he island. Kept waiting for him to hug Miles!!!

Didn't know Jack could shoot so well. It was like the ok coral for a minute.

#91. Posted by: weepict at April 30, 2009 4:21 PM

Will the island turn out to be Atlantis or is that too obvious?

#92. Posted by: Dennis at April 30, 2009 4:22 PM

@91 weepict observed:

>Didn't know Jack could shoot so well. It was like the ok coral for a minute.

Where they keep the sea horses?

#93. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2009 4:52 PM

Re: The journal that Mrs H gave Daniel:

I had a feeling that there were already some (or all) entries in it, beyond his Mum's note on the first page, whether Daniel wrote them himself or someone else did. That would explain how he knew Chang's arrival time. And also explains the entry: Desmond Hume WILL be your constant.

#94. Posted by: lovelost at April 30, 2009 4:57 PM

@ 84. genepools and 85. Skipper -- I am sorry but I completely disagree. I think that she has known since 1977 that she was destined to kill him. Why would she act so strangely toward him all of his life and push him so hard if she didn't know ahead of time -- Daniel even says before he dies (presumably dies) you knew the whole time.

#95. Posted by: Wendy at April 30, 2009 5:05 PM

→ 95. Posted by: Wendy

Yeah, you bring up a good point, too, Wendy. Daniel does tell his mum "You knew this whole time." But is that really confirmation that she knew? I think she pushed him to follow a certain path because she knew that his skills would be needed in the future (or past). I guess it could go either way. depending on who is posting, I can see arguments that would support both theories. Like everything else, I guess we'll just have to watch and see what happens.
btw- Lostpedia lists Daniel as a dead character, if that means anything to anyone.

#96. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 5:12 PM

Are TPTB ever going to address what happened to the other Oceanic survivors on the beach, such as Rose/Bernard and whoever else didn't get shot with a flaming arrow? Are they still living on the Island in present time?

#97. Posted by: Christina at April 30, 2009 6:18 PM

Just thinking, if Eloise had a second son, then Daniel Faraday would be his brother from an Other mother.

#98. Posted by: Packerfan at April 30, 2009 7:34 PM

Re: The journal that Mrs H gave Daniel:

I had a feeling that there were already some (or all) entries in it, beyond his Mum's note on the first page, whether Daniel wrote them himself or someone else did. That would explain how he knew Chang's arrival time. And also explains the entry: Desmond Hume WILL be your constant.
→ 94. Posted by: lovelost at April 30, 2009 4:57 PM

_________________________________

I wondered what else Eloise put in the journal as well.

However, the journal entry "If anything goes wrong, Desmond is my constant" only appeared in the journal after Daniel spoke to Desmond, at the back door to the Swan station. If I remember this correctly, he flashes away from Desmond and immediately goes to get his pack with the journal. Daniel pages through the journal until he finds the new entry.

#99. Posted by: Steve at April 30, 2009 7:45 PM

I agree with Mac’s 1st and 2nd favorite lines.

3rd favorite:
Mrs. Hawking “Good Lord, No!” in response to Penny’s suggestion that she was the mother of Benjamin Linus.

4th favorite:
Radzinsky “I just got shot by a physicist” (he says with total disgust), “and the new recruits are helping him. We've been infiltrated!”
________________________________________

Jag/18: “When Richard met Ben initially he was dressed differently...maybe he is like Christian and Locke now, roaming around looking alive, wearing the same outfit that he was wearing when he died..”

Well, that would discount many ideas about Richard’s backstory! Shouldn’t he be wearing an Egyptian kilt or a Pirate scarf? Or both!
________________________________________

Add me to the camp that thinks Charlie is in danger! Probably because this show could make the most rational person a conspiracy theorist.
________________________________________

Both of the following made me laugh out loud:
katespanties/27: “Eloise is a skank heffer.”
ramonomar/87: (I sure hope that the janitor at my kid's school doesn't have the key to the gun cabinet.)--“I sure hope your kid’s school doesn’t have a gun cabinet.”
________________________________________

Deebo/47: “Anyone think that Eloise meant literally that Dan needs to “make time” when she said that to him playing the piano”

Actually, it was Daniel who said, “I can make time.” And Eloise responded, “If only you could.” But, I agree, it was portentous.
________________________________________

I don’t like Widmore as Daniel’s father. Dan seems nothing at all like either of his parents, and it just doesn’t sit right somehow (and I’m not talking about eye color.)

And it seems a waste to off Dan just when he started acting sane. (Well, almost.)

I disagree with Mizzed/6: “Titling the episode "The Variable" may have given the free will supporters here a brief spark of hope, but his immediate cosmic smackdown is yet another confirmation that Lost lives in a predetermined universe, otherwise known as WHH.”

The future will change and Desmond will do it! I have FAITH in FREE WILL!

#100. Posted by: Clementine at April 30, 2009 8:18 PM

I can't believe that 100 posts have gone by and not one person mentioned Daniel's awesome Oxford Graduation wig. I mean, are TPTB even trying anymore? or did they just throw any old mop on his head and call it a day?

#101. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 8:37 PM

When Widmore visits Daniel at his home, he moves a magazine out of the way so that he can sit down. Magazine is called WIRED and the headline is"The imposible gets real"......hm, you can say that agian!

#102. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 8:40 PM

OMG, Skipper, that wig ROCKED! As soon as I saw it, I wanted to comment on it, and then totally forgot. I think Dan may have stashed Eloise in there for safekeeping! (The rat, not the Other mother.)

#103. Posted by: Clementine at April 30, 2009 9:01 PM

After Eloise shoots Daniel she goes through his pockets looking for some change and maybe a debit card, when she finds his journal. The journal has all of the answers in it up to that point in Daniel's life... she takes it, reads it, and consequently knows everything that's going to happen in the future up until that time.... which is why she tells Penny that "for the first time in a long time, I don't know what's going to happen next". The journal stops when Daniel dies.

#104. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 9:04 PM

Eloise: "Sacrifice, don't you talk to me about sacrifice, Charles. I had to send my son to the island knowing full well...."

Charles: "he's my son too, Eloise

Eloise: SMACK

I'm guessing that Chuck gave up custody of Dan and chose his other (no pun), off island family over Eli & Dan. I'd slap him, too. Anyways, the dialogue above is proof enough (for me anyways) that Eloise did know that she was sending Daniel back to the island to die. I take back what I said above in another post.

#105. Posted by: Skipper at April 30, 2009 9:11 PM

Re: "However, the journal entry "If anything goes wrong, Desmond is my constant" only appeared in the journal after Daniel spoke to Desmond,at the back door to the Swan station. If I remember this correctly, he flashes away from Desmond and immediately goes to get his pack with the journal. Daniel pages through the journal until he finds the new entry."
→ 99. Posted by: Steve at April 30, 2009 7:45
-------------

Daniel reads that line in his journal after talking to Des on the phone when Des is on the freighter, flashing back and forth from 2004 to 1996... I interpreted Daniel's flipping through and finding the line differently: not that the entry had just appeared, but that Daniel remembers writing it almost 10 years ago and has finally been able to experience things from "the other side"(i.e, when he originally wrote it, he was dealing with a time-traveling Des during the time period Des was traveling TO...now, when he looks back at the journal, he's dealing with Des from the time period in which Des was traveling FROM).

So it probably makes a lot more sense to Daniel now, which is why he looks at the line in his journal with new understanding.

#106. Posted by: suze at April 30, 2009 10:12 PM

---so if the exotic matter under the Orchid, with the FDW attached, is capable of "moving" the island and causing our time-skippers to hop around through the past/present/future... what then, is the matter under the Swan capable of? Faraday said to Chang that its "30,000 times more powerful" than what's under the Orchid. can it "destroy the world", "make time", create a new universe, etc?

---and i just can't believe that our survivors would REALLY want to stop 815 from crashing and land in LA. each of their lives had major flaws/problems, and preventing the crash would put them back to square one... i am going to have a hard time digesting what their motivation will be if they try to make this happen- the preview for next week shows them all under the temple/smokey's lair, and a large object is under a tarp or in a crate of some sort- presumably... jughead.

---also, i'm just wondering- have we seen smokey in the past? like in the 50s or 70s? i know we saw him when the french team crashed on the island in the early 80s, and going forward from that point. but is it possible that the "incident" releases smokey? hmm... but the sonic fence was there in '77 and it doesn't seem to keep the Others out, and we know it keeps smokey out.. so... i dunno..help me out here....???

#107. Posted by: robertjobert at April 30, 2009 10:30 PM

All this time, Alpert, Hawking and Widmore have had the benefit of at least some basic facts from future events, based on the interactions they've had in 1954, 1974, 1977 with Locke, Sawyer, Faraday, etc.

In addition, Faraday received a 1996 visit from a consciousness jumping Desmond that he may have mentioned to his mother or benefactor.

In other words, Hawking, RA and Widmore may never have time traveled themselves- they just connected the dots from their interactions with Locke, Sawyer, Kate, Faraday, etc.

Widmore personally put Faraday (with Eloise's help), Charlotte and Miles on the island. He and RA also watched Locke, and Widmore used Abaddon to push Locke to Australia.

Widmore (with Libby and Hawking's help) got Desmond on the boat and on to the island.

My question is whether CW and EH manipulated anybody else to get to the island? Perhaps they did not monitor/influence Jack, Hurley, Sayid, etc. precrash because they didn't know who they were at the time? If so, does that make them wild cards, selected by the island/universe but out of the control of individuals like CW & EH?

#108. Posted by: Mizzed at May 1, 2009 1:19 AM

A101 Skipper:
I can't believe that 100 posts have gone by and not one person mentioned Daniel's awesome Oxford Graduation wig. I mean, are TPTB even trying anymore? or did they just throw any old mop on his head and call it a day?

LOST WORST WIG AWARDS:

5. Naomi when she is recruiting Miles
4. Dan's Oxford graduation toupe
3. Miles' mom on deathbed
3. Jack as young surgeon
1. Ben as k d Lang

#109. Posted by: Glostover at May 1, 2009 5:55 AM

@107. Robertjobert: "I can't believe that 100 posts have gone by and not one person mentioned Daniel's awesome Oxford Graduation wig. I mean, are TPTB even trying anymore? or did they just throw any old mop on his head and call it a day?"

Well, I think Jack for one, being a "shepherd" and invested in saving everyone, would have liked to reverse all the deaths that have occurred over the past 5 seasons, Boone, Shannon, Claire, Charlie, Michael, Libby, (we'll let Ana Lucia remain dead), Locke (?) all the redshirts, innocent standersby, etc. Poor guy has had a time of it with his savior complex.

Don't know why I'm posting so much - you all are so stimulating!

#110. Posted by: Glostover at May 1, 2009 6:05 AM

Sorry last post was a reply to 107:

---and i just can't believe that our survivors would REALLY want to stop 815 from crashing and land in LA. each of their lives had major flaws/problems, and preventing the crash would put them back to square one... i am going to have a hard time digesting what their motivation will be if they try to make this happen.

#111. Posted by: Glostover at May 1, 2009 6:07 AM

My first thought when this ep was over was about "Mommy issues". Everyone else on Lost seems to have issues with their dads: Jack, Kate, Ben, Clair, Sawyer, Sun, Hurley, Penny, etc. Now we have a character with wicked mom issues! I wonder if TPTB are using the show as a form of public family therapy?

Watch out ma, if you don't stop nagging me I'm going to write your character into my TV show!

#112. Posted by: jaybee at May 1, 2009 7:20 AM

@ Mizzed - 34
Great point! Now Ms. Hawking doesn't seem like such a bad mommy after all. But she's still one of those people that care more about the island than anything else.

#113. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 7:49 AM

...and the world. I suppose that does matter. I guess Faraday was a "necessary sacrifice that the world demanded". Maybe "demanded" is too strong of a word.

#114. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 7:52 AM

I have a further nominations for Worst Wig Award~~

Libby: tinyurl.com/c3ok93
Locke: tinyurl.com/dzwbwt
Jack: tinyurl.com/cqhj3q
Boone: tinyurl.com/co7ejr

And my personal winner, the Wig that irritated the heck out of me all last season...

Claire (after Emilie de Ravin cut her hair short in real life):

tinyurl.com/c64t7d
tinyurl.com/cctr7g


Emilie de Ravin throughout Season 4 (after she got her hair cut short in real life):

#115. Posted by: Clementine at May 1, 2009 7:55 AM

Miles and Charlotte would not know each other on-island in their childhood because Charlotte leaves before Miles is old enough to meet her, and Miles leaves as well.

#116. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 7:55 AM

@ brotherfromanotherother - 40
Yeah, I agree. I don't know why everyone's so determined to avoid the crash. It seems like it was the best thing that happened to all of them. They may not realize it but they would really regret it if all of that goes away. Sort of like how Jack was like, "WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!!"

So I guess it was their "destiny".

#117. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 7:58 AM

Do we know that Faraday was born on-island?

We know that he was the product of two island leader people thingys of the others...

We know that his mother is NOT the woman "off island" that Widmore had a child with...

But do we know for a fact that Daniel was born on-island? I don't think we can even assume that he's been there before.

We don't even know what year he was born in right? Maybe it was a while after '77, and by that time Hawking was off island.

#118. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:11 AM

@ shake_alive - 55
That seemed stupid to me too. Was it really necessary to have guns? Seriously, nobody would have suspected them if they never did that.

And Faraday waving the gun in the other's faces??? You'd think he'd be smarter than that. OBVIOUSLY the other's have guns too!

#119. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:16 AM

@ Really Lost - 59
"Has anybody reached the conclusion that baby Charlie is really adult Charlie who will be kidnapped and sent back in time to save his dad in the future???"

I think we know too much about Charlie's family to reach that conclusion.

#120. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:21 AM

@ Paula V - 73
So I get that people don't get this whole time-thing, because it's confusing, but we've clarified this on way more than several occasions.

Maybe you should re-watch "Whatever Happened, Happened" or re-read the recap for it.

#121. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:29 AM

New Acronym!!!
TPI77!!! - The Present IS 1977

(for the Losties/time traveling characters )

#122. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:30 AM

Has anyone addressed why Chang was so hesitant to believe that Miles and Daniel were from the future and Miles is in fact his son?

#123. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:36 AM

Friday morning: Just checking in.

Had a concert in Greenville, SC on Wednesday so just watched the episode for the first time this morning. Feeling sorry for Juliet . . But it does look like a new opportunity for leadership renewal from Kate and Jack . . Enjoying the posts so far...Gun Cabinet response was very funny . . . Not sure if Oxford wig can REALLY outvote the kd Lang wig . . .

BTW - Jughead is THE bomb.

:-)


DRH

#124. Posted by: davidrh at May 1, 2009 8:37 AM

Have we seen Faraday write in his journal?

I can only recall him using his journal for reference. So if Ms. Hawking gave him the journal that she recovered from him in '77, it'd just be a circle of passing on the journal, right?

#125. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:51 AM

@ 125
(much like the compass passed between RA and Locke).

#126. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 1, 2009 8:52 AM

@Skipper #104
"After Eloise shoots Daniel she goes through his pockets looking for some change and maybe a debit card, when she finds his journal. The journal has all of the answers in it up to that point in Daniel's life... she takes it, reads it, and consequently knows everything that's going to happen in the future up until that time.... which is why she tells Penny that "for the first time in a long time, I don't know what's going to happen next". The journal stops when Daniel dies."

I had that thought when I read #94 - except the bit about why Eloise doesn't know the future any more - which is brilliant and gave me the following longwinded thoughts:

- It also explains a lot of Daniel's behaviour - he must have realised that Eloise got hold of his journal in 1977, so planned to go and give it to her. Hence him making sure he got his 'errand' done before visiting the Others' camp - he knew he had one thing left to write, which was in the journal when he was given it by Eloise at his graduation.

- It also possibly sheds new light on Eloise's motivations - if she got the journal from Dan after he died, she could then have made use of his notes to effectively set a whole lot of things in motion. Kind of a circular thing like Richard/Locke and the watch: she knew if she didn't kill Dan and get his journal and later give it to him, it would never be written, and he would never discover time travel... I'm presuming that at Oxford he used clues from the 1977 notes in the journal (actually written by his future self with knowledge of time travel), to work backwards and conduct his experiments, leading to his discoveries. Make any sense?

- If all that is accurate, then Dan wasn't trying to change the future in this episode itself, he was making sure that 'WHH' (him giving Eloise the journal). After that, he was going to put his 'changing the future' plan into action with Jughead. But obviously he died instead. So we the viewers still have no idea whether anything really can be changed.

#127. Posted by: Jo at May 1, 2009 9:08 AM

I was disappointed in this episode because it has further created incoherent mush of a storyline (with additional unnecessary soap opera tangents). If Faraday was the means of explaining the show's premise (mind travel, physical time travel, time as linear set destiny, ect.), Faraday now admits he was wrong. He can change things. Instead of raising concern, Jack and Kate join another insane quest which makes no sense. I have come to the conclusion that the characters are at the very least brain dead.

Faraday's "new" solution is the use the h-bomb to blow up the EM under the Swan because it is 30,000 times more powerful than the Orchid (which can move the island). The basic problem with that solution is that under the principle of conservation of energy the h-bomb's power (including additional EM/radiation pulse) is added with the island EM to create a more destructive explosion event.

There is also the problem that time and events move forward along its path, but apparently people do not; when you go back in time, you can meet yourself. If you believe in the one body, one mind, one soul concept this should not occur (the mythological exception: Egyptian burial and afterlife rituals). Here, there are multiple bodies but one mind since information is apparently going back and forth between time periods.

This leads me to a bad feeling that this is a convoluted Groundhog Day re-mix explanation: that Faraday has been going back to the past for many island lifetimes, creating experiments on the island in 1974-1990, then dying in that time period which allows his 2000-2004 self to write down all results/experiences in his journal off island. If you are alive in 2004, but go back time and die in 1977, you are still alive to go back again in 1977 and try, try again.

His "vast knowledge" is similar to Bill Murray's, being present when events have occurred because he has been there hundreds of times beforehand. He may be the "brilliant" man who designed the Lamp Post, the musician who designed the code in the Looking Glass, the designer of the Swan (because Radinsky does not seem to be the mental giant).

He was/is the one Variable that has started all the 815ers on their Monty Python insane quests: first the quest for survival, then the quest to get their friends back from the Others, then the quest to get off the island, then the quest to get back to the island, and now the quest to blow up the Swan.


#128. Posted by: welh at May 1, 2009 10:09 AM

@106- Best post so far-

I agree totally that Daniel’s notebook is the key and that Hawking used the notebook to tell future events and no longer knows what is going to happen because Daniel is dead…Brilliant!!! Worst Wig is definitely Charles Widmore from Dead is Dead and Jack’s Mullet (Man of science Man of a Faith) was unbearable!

I do wonder how Eloise would get a hold of the notebook when it looked from the previews next week that Jack has it….I didn’t like that Dan went to the others waving a gun and asking to be killed.. it seemed too forced by him and gave Eloise the pretext to kill him… Jeremy Davis was an absolute fantastic actor and will be missed.


#129. Posted by: Deebo at May 1, 2009 10:11 AM

a couple of people mentioned rose&bernard, i posted a comment regarding them and a few other thing about lost on the "some like it hoth" blog near the very end of the postings so everyone probably didnt read it.

possible spoilers so if you dont want to know what's going to happen the next few episode, feel free to skip ahead.

i got this info from the latest tv guide issue, their finale preview issue and i'll paraphrase what i typed: the whereabouts of rose&bernard will be addressed before seasons end, vincent will make an appearance, there will be a wedding and how hurley got out of jail and made it in time to catch the ajira flight, also why he has the guitar case.

i for one liked daniel's wig, all that was missing was and earring or two.

i'm in the group that thinks little charlie is going to get kidnapped, after everything they had just went through my child would not be leaving my sight for one minute!!

i think i'm getting a little tired of richard always asking "do we know each other?" all the time. what kind of possible sacred god has a bad memory? :)

#130. Posted by: tiffani at May 1, 2009 10:15 AM

They never explained fully why Widmore was thrown off the island. Now it's very clear in the fact that he had an affair off island which produced another child. If I was Eloise I would have slapped him too when he mentioned Dan as his son.

I also could never understand how Richard lost his status as leader of the others. I always felt that he 'used' Ben to regain his position of power and then he couldn't get the power away from Ben. If Eloise does get her hands on the journal first, that would be a very powerful tool to use against Richard.

And has much as I would like to see Charlie come back, I don't want to see him come back as a drug addict!

#131. Posted by: pebspostal at May 1, 2009 11:45 AM

Worst Wig contender- Horace in 77...although I will go with CW's wig/scarf combo for a top 5 entry,too.

Parent issues seemed to be focused on bad dads the first few seasons but now a slew of bad moms are coming to the forefront. I'll be curious to see further explanations/ connections of this thread. I don't know about TPTB using the show for therapy, but I know I need therapy after watching this show for so many years. I'm worried about possible withdrawal symptoms.

#132. Posted by: lardiea at May 1, 2009 11:50 AM

Mommy issues:

I think some of the main characters DID have mommy issues this whole time, it just wasn't highlighted as much.

Claire's mom - didn't tell her about her real father. fought with her in the car prior to accident. having your mom in a coma alone is traumatizing enough.

Kate's mom - didn't support Kate's decision to blow up her dad. Had the cops watching her and reported her own daughter... I think she gave her a 5 min. head start to run, if I remember correctly

Hugo's mom - took in Hugo's father after they won the lottery, against Hugo's wishes.

Walt's mom - she took him away from his father and married a white man, then died. That's a lot of trauma for one kid.

Alex's mom - Alex didn't even know her mom was crazy French lady. They both died before getting to know each other, and didn't even get to have a Mother's Day Brunch at the Hilton.

Ben's mom - died while giving birth to him. Ben felt guilt (thanks to his dad) about that. she also appeared to him out in the field which really screwed with his mind.

Locke's mom - she's schizophrenic. nuff said.

Miles - his mom never even told him who his father was. She was surprised to see him visit her on her death bed...which makes it obvious that they weren't close at all.

Penny - does she even know who her mom is?

Jin - his mom was a hooker, right? didn't some lady threaten Sun by saying that she would expose Jin's fisherman father and hooker mother?


....I could go on, but I think you get my point, which is that mommy issues are not new to this show.

#133. Posted by: Skipper at May 1, 2009 12:12 PM

@133 skipper: the mother's day brunch at the hilton is "the bomb", they really did miss out. ;0

#134. Posted by: tiffani at May 1, 2009 12:30 PM

@ myself, #127...
"I'm presuming that at Oxford he used clues from the 1977 notes in the journal (actually written by his future self with knowledge of time travel)"

I kinda overlooked the fact that the journal Dan died with in 1977 would have been complete with all his notes from the '90s/'00s as well as the '70s. Which means #125 is right about Dan only using it for reference - the journal he received from Eloise at his graduation would have been full of notes from both time periods.

Which is very weird if it's true, because they're clearly his notes, yet he never actually writes them, he only reads them. And Eloise never actually writes that dedication at the beginning either.

So did he have an idea that he would die soon, because he'd come to the end of the notes? (Obviously he didn't think Eloise would do it though...)

I'm confusing myself with this theory.

#135. Posted by: Jo at May 1, 2009 12:31 PM

@130 tiffani passed on a prediction:

>i got this info from the latest tv guide issue, their finale preview issue and i'll paraphrase what i typed: ... there will be a wedding ...


I'm gonna make my guess:

Sawyer asks Dharma to marry him and Juliet before the scheduled execution...

Which is interrupted by the mother of all explosions (the incident?)...

Triggered by Jack's merry band...

But if there's an explosion Locke has to have a hand in it somehow...

"African Queen", anyone?

#136. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 1, 2009 12:31 PM

@102 - that was the August 2003 issue of Wired, which among other things had the following article:

http://tinyurl.com/gklb

#137. Posted by: Caelum at May 1, 2009 12:43 PM

@ 137. Posted by: Caelum that was the August 2003 issue of Wired, which among other things had the following article: http://tinyurl.com/gklb

Well, August 2003 is a whole year before the plane crashed in September 2004. Dan was watching the video of the wreckage that was found sometime after the actual crash. I guess he likes to keep old issues of Wired magazines around.

#138. Posted by: Skipper at May 1, 2009 12:48 PM

RE Post 128 -->The basic problem with that solution is that under the principle of conservation of energy the h-bomb's power (including additional EM/radiation pulse) is added with the island EM to create a more destructive explosion event.

What if the magnetic anomaly under the swan station would act as a counter to the explosion and absorb the energy. If the explosive energy acts as a counter force to the implosive gravitational properties of the material, this could neutralize the matter of both forces in a combined mass.

What did I just say?

#139. Posted by: steve at May 1, 2009 1:11 PM

RE: → 130. Posted by: tiffani at May 1, 2009 10:15 AM

i think i'm getting a little tired of richard always asking "do we know each other?" all the time. what kind of possible sacred god has a bad memory? :)
_______________________________

One explanation could be found in Egyptian burial practices. There were servants buried with the Pharaohs so that they would have help in the underworld. Maybe RA is a servant there to protect and serve.

#140. Posted by: Steve at May 1, 2009 1:17 PM

I just had a thought that I posted over on another lost blog site.

#

I had another random LOST thought –> Could Eloise have sent the Oceanic folks back to the island because they are variables that may bring about the end of the world. She could take them out of the equation by keeping them Lost on the island.

Note: “Out of the equation” I liked that one

#141. Posted by: steve at May 1, 2009 1:55 PM

@139/Steve:
The problem was posed as Chang releasing the EM under the Swan, i.e. explosive force.

Now, when Desmond used the fail safe key, the Hatch both blew up and imploded, which was never explained.

#142. Posted by: welh at May 1, 2009 2:06 PM

Watched it Thursday, so i may be late on this (and no time to read thru 140 posts), but my favorite line was Daniel, when Kate handed him a rifle at the Motor Pool, "Do you have anything for a beginner?" I'm gonna miss that guy.

#143. Posted by: bees at May 1, 2009 2:14 PM

63 - fpalma_is_lost

If that's true, then Charlie is his own grandpa!! :)

#144. Posted by: Christin at May 1, 2009 2:19 PM

80. @ Boharpe

I think the 'direct connection' is that they named Wee Charlie after DriveShaft Charlie (RIP). Right?

83. @ vintaag

That is a great clue - I totally missed that!

#145. Posted by: Christin at May 1, 2009 2:33 PM

90. Posted by: sandivon

Widmore can't be DriveShaft Charlie - we saw Widmore on the island when he was in his early twenties (?) and he looked nothing like Charlie. That would be a really cool reveal, but I think we know enough about Widmore now to know that it's not possible.

Then again, none of this is really 'possible.' :)

#146. Posted by: Christin at May 1, 2009 2:37 PM

106. Posted by: suze

Thanks, suze. I was still a little foggy on that. Good explanation.

#147. Posted by: Christin at May 1, 2009 2:43 PM

Now, I don't watch previews or read spoilers, so I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if any "reunion" that takes place happens in '77, not present day. Faraday's already suggested that the past *can* be changed. Also, there's nothing in the future for the writers to hang their story on. There is still a *ton* of action waiting with Dharma.

Finally, everyone's been saying that a War is coming. That could be the war that already took place between Dharma and the Others. That war is just ramping up now, and lasts a *long* time before the Purge.

#148. Posted by: ThingGuy McGuyThing at May 1, 2009 2:44 PM

Posted by: ThingGuy McGuyThing at May 1, 2009 2:44 PM
Now, I don't watch previews or read spoilers, so I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if any "reunion" that takes place happens in '77, not present day.
--------------------

It's definitely possible. Christian told Sun she had a bit of a journey ahead of her. And Locke said that he has some ideas on how to find Jin.

Still, it would make more sense if the incident causes the Lostees to foom back to present time. (yeah sure, that makes a lot of sense :-D )

#149. Posted by: Mischa at May 1, 2009 3:47 PM

@139/Steve:
The problem was posed as Chang releasing the EM under the Swan, i.e. explosive force.

Now, when Desmond used the fail safe key, the Hatch both blew up and imploded, which was never explained.
→ 142. Posted by: welh at May 1, 2009 2:06 PM
___________________________

I don't remember Daniel using the term explosive, he only described the incident as catastrophic. The explosion/Implosion is exactly what I was hypothesizing about. After the hatch implosion, the EM force is neutralized. Since Daniel knows that the hatch implosion has happened, he knows that this will work.

#150. Posted by: steve at May 1, 2009 4:08 PM

? 136. Posted by: Cecil Rose
I'm gonna make my guess:
Sawyer asks Dharma to marry him and Juliet before the scheduled execution...
Which is interrupted by the mother of all explosions (the incident?)...

Would this qualify as another "mother" issue?

*****
One thing I noticed, and I may be wrong about this, but when Faraday asks Richard for Ellie, Richard says she's not there. Did he simply not know, or was he lying?

If he was lying, I think this is the first time he's been caught in a lie.

What do you think the significance of that might be? Should we now view anything Richard says with skepticism?

After Ellie shoots Daniel, Richard says that he wasn't going to shoot.
How would he know that?

#151. Posted by: Gumbo at May 1, 2009 4:12 PM

Since we now know they can jump around in time, can we come up with a year for everyone that they would like to jump back too. Before:

Claire wreaked the car and almost killed her mother.
Locke was pushed out a window.
Kate blew up her father.
Juliet accepted a position with Dharma.
Sawyer killed Hibbs.
Jack wrecked his father's career.
Hugo won the money.
Desmond sailed the seven seas.
Syned killed his commander.
Charlie was a druggie.
Sun had an affair.

#152. Posted by: pebspostal at May 1, 2009 4:29 PM

→ 151. Posted by: Gumbo One thing I noticed, and I may be wrong about this, but when Faraday asks Richard for Ellie, Richard says she's not there. Did he simply not know, or was he lying?....If he was lying, I think this is the first time he's been caught in a lie.

I don't think he's a liar, but I do think Richard keeps the truth to himself and reveals only what is strategically advantageous.

This would apply to his repeated "Do I know you?" line. He's in front of his people and it may not be in his best interests to reveal knowing the strangers. Also, in a passive way he's finding out what the hell the intruder Losties are after--usually when he says that they blurt it all out.

#153. Posted by: freckles at May 1, 2009 4:44 PM

Here is another crazy theory –>

The world actually is going to come to end. Those on the island are the seeds of a new civilization that will re-populate the human race on earth. Those chosen are meant to be there, and this is why they are brought to the island.
The island is hidden in the past, but remains in a sychronouse time expanse with the outside world. Think of this as two cars following each other on the freeway. Both in the same lane, just say one car is an hour behind the first car. They both proceed down the road in the same direction and at the same speed. The first car gets in an accident that blocks the road for 20 minutes. The second car will approach the accident time of the first car and then go around it to some time past 20 minutes ahead, and only encounter an open road.

(I brought this up as the Bill and Teds excellent adventure time scenario - in other words the clock of the present time is always running. )

In this way they are all there to save the world. The Swan station is built to correct a catastrophic problem with maintaining life on the island and keeping the island fixed and shielded from the present day timeline in a bubble of sorts.

Desmond, by pushing the button is actually preventing the demise of the island, and thus actually saving the world, by preserving those who are meant to re-populate it.

Dharma and specifically Pierre Chang learned of Daniels theory about the H-Bomb explosion, from his journal and the meeting at the Orchid, about nullifying the catastrophic magnetic effect under the swan. Explosion vs implosion. This is why the fail safe is put in place. They don’t use it because they are not certain that will actually work and not totally devastate the island. Of course we know that it does work. Now There is the problem with having children. This would definitely hamper re-population efforts, but it would be needed for a while to prevent over population on the island while waiting for the present time world to be habitable again.

This re-population time may not be far off on the present time timeline. For all we know, Eloise, Charles, and a few others may be from far in the future on the present day time line. what we see as present day is actually the past to them just like Dharma is in the past for the Oceanic people.

The purpose of the Others is to preserve the seeds of the future until it is time to redeam man and re-populate the world.

Crazy, but fun to think about.

#154. Posted by: steve at May 1, 2009 4:45 PM

@ 150/Steve:

I think Lostpedia had the same impression I did when Daniel explained his plan:

"When Jack, Daniel, and Kate stop at a creek to rest, Jack asks Daniel to explain his intentions. Daniel reveals his knowledge of the impending disaster caused by a massive energy release at the Swan station."

Massive energy release = explosion in my mind. There was no mention of creating an implosion.

#155. Posted by: welh at May 1, 2009 4:49 PM

@152. This could be like the Christmas Carol. They all go back and learn their future and have a second chance at fixing it. THat would be lame but remember all of the old Santa Theories about Lost and the Polar Bear etc...

#156. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at May 1, 2009 4:59 PM

@→ 152. Posted by: pebspostal
Since we now know they can jump around in time, can we come up with a year for everyone that they would like to jump back too. Before..."

Excellent!! Juliet has been on island for ~3yrs, so has Desmond, Locke was paralyzed ~4 yrs?? Not sure about rest - some Lostpedia junkie will know :-)
So, maybe September 2000? That might work!

#157. Posted by: LostinVT at May 1, 2009 5:04 PM

→ 109. Posted by: Glostover
LOST WORST WIG AWARDS

Loved the awards...Daniel's latest do is yet another example of how TPTB think putting a random wig on people makes them look younger...when in reality it just looks like a thirty (or fifty) something with bad fake hair! At least the Oxford wig was entertaining in itself to watch, definitely stole the scene.

#158. Posted by: freckles at May 1, 2009 5:15 PM

i just got the chance to watch the new episode,
lots of action, plenty secrets revealed & a nice back-story re: twitchy dan,
im not so sure about his thin lizzy guitarist look though!!

#159. Posted by: san at May 1, 2009 7:59 PM

@155 Welh --> Massive energy release = explosion in my mind. There was no mention of creating an implosion.

I see where your going. I was thinking of the EM release as being similar to taking the lid of of a black hole. This is why everything metal is drawn inward to the source - an implosion.

#160. Posted by: Steve at May 1, 2009 8:57 PM

@-154 steve
i like your theory,
i believe the dharma initiative had little or no understanding of the unique properties of the island,
they just head-hunted people they thought could unlock the secrets they desired,
if we look at how ben & the others ran things in dharmavil - after the purge, then we see how this operation should have been run.

#161. Posted by: san at May 1, 2009 9:38 PM

While it is a creative idea, the journal that Hawking gives Daniel must be empty.

The suggestion that Hawking gives Daniel a full journal with the secrets of time travel would create a unsustainable paradox where the journal is never actually written- if Faraday is given a completed journal, he never actually writes in it himself, and if he never writes it, the journal can never contain his research notes.

TPTB talk about the show as being character first, sci fi/fantasy second. I think the journal gift giving scene was intended to show Hawking's conflict as a mother who knows her son's tragic fate and her own guilt over killing him: "no matter what, remember, I will always love you".

Rewatching the scene in HD, the journal's pages are pressed tightly together (i.e. brand new) and does not have the same appearance as a journal that has been heavily used and extensively written in.

#162. Posted by: Mizzed at May 1, 2009 11:11 PM

→ 157. Posted by: LostinVT at Excellent!!
Juliet has been on island for ~3yrs, so has ..
- - - -
Juliet has been on the island for 6+ years.
2001 to 2004+
1974 to 1977...

6 plus - by all counts.

#163. Posted by: ANON2 at May 1, 2009 11:49 PM

→ 127. Jo: "So we the viewers still have no idea whether anything really can be changed."

We've seen many examples the last five seasons of how future events can not be changed, and conversly, few if any that suggest that change is possible.

While free will can be exercised to create minor ripples in Lost, events consistently have course corrected to ensure the future will happen as needed.

TPTB have tied themselves ino knots to avoid time paradoxes. From the wiki entry on the Grandfather Paradox:

"Another resolution, of which the Novikov self-consistency principle can be taken as an example, holds that if one were to travel back in time, the laws of nature would simply forbid the traveler from doing anything that could later result in their time travel not occurring. For example, a shot fired at the traveler's grandfather will miss, or the gun will jam, or misfire, or the grandfather will be injured but not killed, or the person killed will turn out to be not the real grandfather, or some other event will occur to prevent the attempt from succeeding. No action the traveler takes to effect change will ever succeed, as there will always be some form of "bad luck" or coincidence preventing the outcome. In effect, the traveler will be unable to change history from the state they found it. Very commonly in fiction, the time traveler does not merely fail to prevent the actions he seeks to prevent; he in fact precipitates them (see predestination paradox), usually by accident."

Referring back to that paragraph, Faraday is a perfect example- he claims he has a way to change the future, but by trying to put his plan in action, he actually causes the very events he is trying to change.

Jack and Kate can't prevent the Swan from being built, or from Oceanic not crashing, because if they did, they would never have been back in 1977 in the first place.

Going back to the other examples, how many times in Lost have we seen the "gun misfire", or the person "injured but not killed"?

Continuing from wiki: "This theory might lead to concerns about the existence of free will."

The very same complaint many bloggers here have voiced.

And also: "Closely related but distinct is the notion of the time line as self-healing. The time-traveler's actions are like throwing a stone in a large lake; the ripples spread, but are soon swamped by the effect of the existing waves...the traveler could prevent a car crash from killing a loved one, only to have the loved one killed by a mugger, or fall down the stairs, choke on a meal, killed by a stray bullet, etc."

I'd say that pretty well describes Charlie and Desmond...

#164. Posted by: Mizzed at May 1, 2009 11:49 PM

Everyone's still in shock about Faraday, I know, but before I get started: let's hear it for Mac!
Anyhow...This may be nothing, or something potentially momentous - I don't know! But did anyone else notice the look on Widmore's face when he talked about the sacrifices HE's had to make?...I guess we are all supposed to think he was just refering to his daughter, but what if its actually about Desmond? ie. He knew he HAD to send Desmond to the island so he could do his 'constant' thing! In which case he knew he would have to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter! Which would make him, gulp, kind of heroic! OMG, could we really handle all this?! And what's worse, when we trace this all the way back, wouldn't we then have to believe that Widmore would somehow have to give poor Desmond access to a suitable boat...and how could he do that, unless he somehow PLANTED someone to, oh I don't know, just GIVE him one? Sounds crazy, don't it? Until you remember that the person who did that in season 2's finale was ex nut-bar LIBBY! It's 2.30 am here in Toronto, and I'm only just getting round to catching up, but is that my nose bleeding? Or am I just talking b*ll*cks?

By the way, I only connected these(potential)dots because I've just got round to revisiting season 2 with my wife (who's new to it all and loving every second). And I must say that seasons 2 and 5 fit really well together. From Locke's backstory with his girlfriend, through the DharmaDrops, Radzinsky's brain-matter, and now all this potential Libbyness. It's almost as if TPTB planned it! Now there's a thought...

#165. Posted by: FellowTraveller at May 2, 2009 2:47 AM

As far as changing things goes, I think things can be changed, but not the realy big things, not by mortals. They only decide how they happen. If you want to truely change things, first you have to know what's really going on. Who/What is really behind the curtain and is he/she/it nice? What exactly is it's true plan? If you don't know that, and I don't think anyone we have seen on the show so far does*, how do you know you changed womething if you tried?

So I'm really hoping to finally meet Jacob this season finale. Not that I'm expecting him to reveal much. Lost is such a tease.

* Well, maybe Alpert or Christian, but I find it unlikely that they know everyhing.

#166. Posted by: Mischa at May 2, 2009 1:23 PM

So I'm finding the need to talk about The Constant again.

This might be REALLY STUPID and it may have been explained already, but I need some clarification:

Did the events of Desmond's time jumping ALWAYS HAPPEN, or did they just happen again as he was jumping through time?

The reasons I ask.
1. Wouldn't he have remembered it? He wasn't jumping through time in '96, the other direction.
2. Obviously he's an exception to many things, but that night in the bar, he remembered what happened but he didn't remember remembering what happened.
3. Penny knew that he would call that night that he told her... so it seems as though those events ALWAYS happened with her.
4. If Faraday did write that "Desmond Hume will be my constant" entry, he would have written it after he visited him at Oxford.

I'm confusing myself thinking about this.

IGNABB!!!

Help?

#167. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 2, 2009 4:36 PM

i think dr. chang was ready to believe everything daniel was saying about being from the future & grown-up miles being his son,
chang then asked miles "is this true",
i just found it a bit strange that chang would be almost convinced he was hearing the truth then utterly disregard daniels twitchy rant based on the opinion of someone chang would see as being lower in status than himself.

#168. Posted by: san at May 2, 2009 5:25 PM

@→ 152. Posted by: pebspostal
Since we now know they can jump around in time, can we come up with a year for everyone that they would like to jump back too. Before..."

The problem is, most of the main characters (except Des,the guy on the freighter, and Theresa the coma girl) are jumping through time physically, not "mentally". So if they jumped back to a better time in their lives, their would be two of them...they wouldn't be re-living anything, or re-inhabiting their younger bodies.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I totally agree with Mizzed that the journal was brand new when Eloise gave it to Dan...it looks immaculate. It follows the same logic that the show has been consistently using about time travel...there can be "2" journals in existence, just as there are 2 Miles in 1977--baby and adult,,,There's 2 versions of every character who goes back to a time when they were younger, so why can't there be an "older" journal and a "young" journal as well?

------------------------------------------------------------------
@→ 167. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 2, 2009 4:36 PM. Did the events of Desmond's time jumping ALWAYS HAPPEN, or did they just happen again as he was jumping through time?

My impression is that when his 2004 consciousness entered his 1996 body, his 1996 consciousness blanked out...or was somehow suppressed. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's how I've been interpreting it.

#169. Posted by: suze at May 2, 2009 5:28 PM

This is funny. The LOST cast before they were on LOST. Richard has to be the best!

http://tinyurl.com/cps8fv

#170. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 2, 2009 5:49 PM

I have been thinking about Juliet. She and Sawyer are obviously in deep trouble. I think there may be a factor we haven't considered. Back when she was an Other and was on Hydra Island with Sawyer, Jack and Kate, she killed someone, and was later tattooed or branded with a "mark" on the small of her back. She would still have this mark in 1977. To someone with knowledge of the others, this would be telling.

Many of us have had suspicions about Amy, who might be an "other" spy or defector, or have some unknown relationship with the others. Since Juliet saved baby Ethan at birth, this might put her in a quandry, if she sees the mark. She seems to pull some weight with the Dahrma people and might persuade them one way or the other regarding Juliet's fate. If something like that happens, it would give a reason for the mark being included in the plot line in the first place.

#171. Posted by: smokygirl at May 2, 2009 6:10 PM

I think the best indicator of Faraday being dead for good is the chat he has with jack and kate before they cross over into Other territory. "We are living our present. It is naive to think that nothing can happen to us. All of us can die..." or something like that.

Again someone might have already said that (probably have)...I just watched the episode today!

#172. Posted by: JuGGaLO Aziz at May 2, 2009 7:55 PM

@→ 152. Posted by: pebspostal
Since we now know they can jump around in time, can we come up with a year for everyone that they would like to jump back too. Before..."

@ 157. Posted by: LostinVT at May 1, 2009 5:04 PM
Excellent!! Juliet has been on island for ~3yrs, so has Desmond, Locke was paralyzed ~4 yrs?? Not sure about rest - some Lostpedia junkie will know :-)
So, maybe September 2000? That might work!

When I read these, my thought process jumped to the end. What will it be?

Almost has to end with everyone on Flight 815 landing in LA, doesn't it?

In posts related to previous episodes, "The Stand" by Stephen King has been referenced. I think that might be the wrong Stephen King reference. "The Dark Tower" saga was a seven book opus that began with the passage (and I am only loosely paraphrasing here) "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed..."

Seven books later, the gunslinger finally completes his quest to reach the dark tower. He steps into the door at the top of the tower, and the saga ends with basically the same phrase with which it opened.

Make a note people, Lost will end on Flight 815...

Scream at that Davidrh?

#173. Posted by: add it up at May 2, 2009 8:22 PM

why does security guy phil-in the scene where jack is introduced to him in the closet remind me of the "gimp" from pulp fiction hmmm...

#174. Posted by: san at May 2, 2009 8:33 PM

→ 174. Posted by: san
why does security guy phil-in the scene where jack is introduced to him in the closet remind me of the "gimp" from pulp fiction hmmm...
------------------------
becauz u played the gimp in pulp-fiction? or that has happened to u in reel life?

#175. Posted by: tartty-mon at May 2, 2009 8:51 PM

@-175 tratty -mon.
well spotted san was indeed in pulp fiction as the "gimp"
my agent told me it was a good chance to climb the ladder hmm...

#176. Posted by: san at May 2, 2009 9:19 PM

@30- Pain on the scale of Charlie's death...

Sadly, only Hurley's death would rip my heart out. And I've thought for a couple of seasons that he would sacrifice his life.
_________

Cecil Rose @ 136:
"African Queen", anyone?

I was thinking the exactly the same thing!

#177. Posted by: undaunted at May 2, 2009 11:07 PM

"One thing I noticed, and I may be wrong about this, but when Faraday asks Richard for Ellie, Richard says she's not there. Did he simply not know, or was he lying?

If he was lying, I think this is the first time he's been caught in a lie.

What do you think the significance of that might be? Should we now view anything Richard says with skepticism?

After Ellie shoots Daniel, Richard says that he wasn't going to shoot.
How would he know that?"
→ 151. Posted by: GumbO

First of all, thanks for all the links, guys, and for running with the Worst Wig Awards. The winners get an Ace pocket comb, a supply of toupe clips and a can of Final Net. They've been great fun to follow.

About Richard, and the above mentioned scene. I think we all agree he's not really mortal. Further confirmation was given this episode when Ellie shot Daniel in the back. He looks down, and sees an exit wound in the front of his body. If the bullet continued on its course, wouldn't it have gone into Richard, too? Richard was obviously unharmed. So my thought is, why would Ellie need to protect a man who can't be killed?

#178. Posted by: Glostover at May 3, 2009 4:07 AM

Is Faraday the new charlie?? just as he stops being annoying someone pops a cap in his ass.... and has to be mumsy of all people....
where the chuck is the wacky Iraqi???
Where are super uber annoying rose and whats his face(?)???
People find eyeliner Richard annoying but i think he's just one cool MoFo... never aging eyeliner clad well dressed with no sweat whatsoever Richard.. HA!
This season has certainly answered a lot and made us re-think all our theories about the island and its powers.
There are still a million questions out there that i dont think that they will actually have time to answer them all. It is crazy!!!
there should be a Smoke monster flashback...
PS why have there been no forest whisperings in 1977?? it would be cool to see young other Tom.
Thx again Mac

#179. Posted by: mapache at May 3, 2009 7:03 AM

Thanks for the review, Mac

And thanks to all for making me look brilliant explaining what is going on to my daughter.

Also. Remember Sayid is still out there. He will could save Juliette and Sawyer.

#180. Posted by: berkyo at May 3, 2009 12:07 PM

funny - Hurley was locked in a closet in S4, Economist (i think) just like Phil...maybe same closet. Remember when Locke took over the barracks and Sayid, Miles & Kate went to go get Charlotte back? They found Hurley tied up in a closet and he told them to go to Ben's house, etc.... it was a trap.

Also, remember in S4 when Ben is tied up and tells Rousseau to take Alex and run as far as they can because the freighter people are going to kill everyone? Ben says something like, "I don't want my daughter to...." SMACK. Rousseau smacks him and says, "she's not your daughter". Very similar situation to the Eloise and Widmore's slap.

#181. Posted by: Skipper at May 3, 2009 12:52 PM

@ → 173. Posted by: add it up at May 2, 2009 8:22 PM about Dark Tower saga:

Come on man, do you have any idea how big a spoiler that is to people who haven't read (all of) that saga?

Glad I finished it years ago :)

#182. Posted by: Mischa at May 3, 2009 2:31 PM

i think miles has to accept some of the blame for the situation his friends now find themselves in,
if he had only went straight away to the recording machine and grabbed the video tape instead of starting on sawyer about his iraqi friend,
phil would never have seen the incriminating evidence which sealed sawyers fate.

#183. Posted by: san at May 3, 2009 3:59 PM

→ 182. Posted by: Mischa at May 3, 2009 2:31 PM

My humble apologies on not posting a spoiler alert regarding the Dark Tower!

Do you really think there might be folks who haven't slugged through Roland's story?

Maybe they can read it after season 6 ends...

#184. Posted by: add it up at May 4, 2009 12:38 AM

I don't know, but they should :)

#185. Posted by: Mischa at May 4, 2009 2:11 PM

****SPOILER ALERT********
****SPOILER ALERT********
****SPOILER ALERT********


Wow, that’s the first and last time I check out a preview. Way too much spoilers. And here they are! :D

-Said hooks up with Jack and Kate again. Jin’s with them as well.
-Jack follows through with Daniel’s plan. Kate opposes.
-Jack and Said go to the Other’s temple!! I think. They swim through an underwater cave to reach, what looks like the entrance to an underground temple, and there are people standing at the entrance. Torches everywhere.
-Radzynski beats up Sawyer.
-The evacuation starts. Sawyer and Juliet are marched to the submarine. Then, there’s a goodbye-scene between them.
-Locke, Ben and Sun hook up with Ilana, Alpert(!) and a large group of Ajirans/Others. Locke is leading them across a beach.
-Didn’t see Hurley or Miles.

****END OF SPOILER ALERT********
****END OF SPOILER ALERT********
****END OF SPOILER ALERT********

#186. Posted by: Mischa at May 4, 2009 2:44 PM

For all you foodie Lost lovers:

The Ace of Cakes episode Saturday night is going to be about the cake created to celebrate the 100th episode of Lost. Should be great fun!

Food Network 9/8c.

#187. Posted by: Glostover at May 4, 2009 3:46 PM

*****SPOLIER ALERT*******


So, yeah. I was snooping around wikipedia, minding my own business, i stumbled on information that spoiled a little of what the next episodes will bring. here they are:

1. The next episode is Richard Alpert centric. (This is based on a wiki entry only)

2. There will be a captain in next weeks episode leading me to believe we might get some Black Rock info.

3. This is the big one: the finale will feature seens with Jacob. And he's not Locke or Jack or Aaron, he is a completely different person all together played by an actor who has never been on the show. Verrrry interesting.

Thats all.
Hope I didn't ruin things for people who didn't want it to be ruined.

#188. Posted by: grimgravyX at May 4, 2009 5:22 PM

@mac

Wonder if you could come up with a separate "Spoiler" area so folks wouldn't post them here, warning or no warning.

I'm a speed reader and find it hard to avoid being spoiled even if warned, when I have to scroll past the spoiler.

#189. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2009 5:37 PM

→ 189. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Amen Cecil...

To full enjoy and "optimize" my viewing for the remaining 3 hours of S5, this may have to be my last read/post this season.

#190. Posted by: Island Hopper at May 4, 2009 5:43 PM

@-190 island hopper
that is such a shame if you cant read or make a post here for fear of having your enjoyment of lost spoiled,
i knew before season 5 even started that some of the losties would be in the dharma initiative,
i made no reference of this i here until it had been shown on lost,
i dont think most of the people who post these spoilers are malicious,
i suppose they are just over-eager to share a piece of info with people they imagine would appreciate it,
i like cecils idea, if it is possible to have a seperate area where people could post potential spoilers.

#191. Posted by: san at May 4, 2009 6:42 PM

sooo, for anyone bored and needing more lost distraction in their life, tptb just posted today a new audio podcast... it addresses whether or not daniel's character is really dead, (and more obliquely) what's going on with vincent, and whether whh or whether things can change...

and ack has her shtuff up to for a nice laugh

#192. Posted by: klughs at May 4, 2009 9:51 PM

Been thinking about Eloise telling Desmond that he wouldn't marry Penny and that he was going to push a button every 108 minutes to save the world.

If Eloise knew the future because of Daniel going back to the 70's, and if she was using this information to influence Desmond's destiny, was Widmore doing the same thing in preventing the marriage and keeping Desmond away from Penny? Maybe he's not such a bad guy after all. Maybe he was just really trying to protect Penny from years of heartache.

#193. Posted by: pebspostal at May 4, 2009 11:09 PM

dont get mad because of the spoiler. i put up a warning, if you can't see the heading and steer clear don't blame anyone but yourself.

#194. Posted by: grimgravyX at May 5, 2009 9:02 AM

I was thinking back to season 2 when John Locke was watching those Dharma videos. Remember the missing footage?

Do you guys think that might have been done by Jack and Kate as to not freak themselves out in the future?

#195. Posted by: Matt at May 5, 2009 9:27 AM

I had a strange vibe from the Eloise/Charles "He's my son too" slapdown.

I kinda felt that their physicist-producing love-fest might not have been as mutually consensual as one might hope. I'm not saying there was rape or roofies involved, but there coulda been.

That or Chuck just flat out deserted Ellie and Dan, foregoing his parental obligations, emotionally and financially, in his dogged pursuit of locating the island.

Either of those scenarios would justify Ellie slappin' Chuck.

#196. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 5, 2009 11:39 AM

187. Posted by: Glostover

Thanks for the heads up!

#197. Posted by: berkyo at May 5, 2009 11:50 AM

I agree about the spoilers. I can't NOT read them and I don't want to.

Last weeks Podcast or the one before this one spoiled the last epi too. I did not mention it here for that reason.

D and C debate in the podcasts about whether WHH is actually the truth. So I am very confused - because my views of the epis told me that they could change time. Somehow. I stil think something in time must have changed to stert the loops going. But TPTB said a while ago that they could not and posters here gave very logical reasons why it can't. So I am again open minded about what the hell is really going on on the island.

I'll keep it to myself though and discuss it with my daughter;)

Also saw Jack on The Today show last week and he says the finale will be a totally unexpected epi. We will be surprised. Hmmmm

See you all after the finale.

#198. Posted by: berkyo at May 5, 2009 12:01 PM

is it really that hard to scroll past and/or skip a spoiler post?? i know curiosity can be a killer but come on..... where's your free will. :)

#199. Posted by: tiffani at May 5, 2009 12:53 PM

Tiffani, Spoilers Alerts are like Sale signs.... They just pull me in ;P

#200. Posted by: Skipper at May 5, 2009 1:22 PM

so so true skipper ;)

#201. Posted by: tiffani at May 5, 2009 2:22 PM

the key players of the destiny of the island & those on it appear to be,
widmore,ellie, ben, & richard,
they have an understanding of causality which stretches over decades,
i just wonder what role bram,ilana & the people obsessed with statues & shadows will play when the battle for the island begins.

#202. Posted by: san at May 5, 2009 3:58 PM

hmmmm. your post, san, just made me think. it would make sense if the shadow statue group belongs to one of the most influential people on your list.

we don't know much about the statue group... their motives and plans are a mystery so far. the only thing we know about the statue shadow group, is that A) they are not widmore's people (we know this for certain from the fish taco scene).
B)we know they are not ben's people, since he hasn't had any contact with them since the crash on hydra island. and i believe that richard and ben have the same objectives in mind... mainly the purpose of the island (whatever that is).

so the only other person on your list is eloise, whose motives we really don't know or understand yet.

the only thing we know is that she helped out ben's oceanic group to get back to the island. but not because she is "with" ben... he only found out she knew how to get to the island until locke told him. so she's got her own motivations and purposes going on here. and we don't know what they are!

so i now posit that the statue shadow group is on a mission directed by eloise!

what do you guys think?

#203. Posted by: klughs at May 5, 2009 10:15 PM

i forgot to mention (and i guess this is kind of obvious... but anyway) i think we can also assume that eloise isn't on widmore's 'side' either since the whole slap scene.
she is her own separate entity. she directed ben/oceanic group onto the plane because it fit with her motives (whatever they are), not just because they wanted her to.

#204. Posted by: klughs at May 5, 2009 10:39 PM

→ 203 & 204. Posted by: klughs

Love it. Brilliant piece of inductive reasoning! And taking into consideration Eloise's mysterious contacts with Desmond, she does seem to be a player!

#205. Posted by: freckles at May 6, 2009 4:43 AM

@203&204
sounds good to me, hopefuly if this is true we will find out before going into the final season and hopefully we will know who and the agendas of all the players in the game are and can go into season six with all the cards being put on the table; so to speak.

#206. Posted by: tiffani at May 6, 2009 11:41 AM

@ 203 klughs posted "so i now posit that the statue shadow group is on a mission directed by eloise!"

While I don't actively disagree, and think you may well be on to something, may I point out that Paik Industries has been lurking in the background for quite some time?

Who knows what Sun's daddy's relationship to this Byzantine storyline might be?

And what about Alvar Hanso? He may well be the puppet-master (aka the Wizard of Odd). Didn't he disappear or something? Maybe he stumbled onto the time-travel thing and is buried in the shadow of the statue.

#207. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 6, 2009 1:59 PM

i commented on the statue/shadow group in my last post,
i have a feeling we will be shocked when we find out who they are actually affiliated to,
it seems as though the writers are trying to make us strike people from the list of possiblities,
this is only a theory but im kinda preparing myself for a huge plot twist.

#208. Posted by: san at May 6, 2009 4:27 PM

I'm with you, San, re:#208.

At this point, I could use a clever twist to pull me back into being mesmerized by this show. I feel like it's been predictable lately... maybe it's because I read this blog and then watch the brilliant comments unfold before my eyes as if they did a cut/paste from the blog into the script. Still love the show... i just need a good "wtf moment" to recharge me;) Hopefully we'll get that tonight! Can't wait!!

#209. Posted by: Skipper at May 6, 2009 4:58 PM

@204. Posted by: klughs -
i forgot to mention (and i guess this is kind of obvious... but anyway) i think we can also assume that eloise isn't on widmore's 'side' either since the whole slap scene.
she is her own separate entity. she directed ben/oceanic group onto the plane because it fit with her motives (whatever they are), not just because they wanted her to.
___________________________________

I had a theory on this I posted on LostBlog as well. --> Eloise may have changed the past because this time Jack, Kate & Co. were sent back as well. Remember, the Hospital scenes appears to take place the night of the Ajira flight, and Eloise had alredy srranged to have the Oceanic people on the flight. Then in 1977, Daniel tells Jack that they were not supposed to be there and Eloise was wrong about their destiny. IMO daniel was right and the Oceanic folks were not supposed to be there in the WHH scenario. By injecting this change, outcomes may change and this why for the first time in a long time Eloise does not know what will happen next.

In other words Daniels ultimate Past/future was unchanged, from his point of view, The Oceanic present is still rolling on, but the Island’s future, and the off-island present/past/future may be changed. In the new scenario, Kack and Kate know what Dharma is doing and what Daniel wanted to do. This time the ideas, Solutions, and information don't die with him.

I am assuming that the Hospital scenes are taking place in Desmond’s, Penny’s, and little Charley’s Present, but taking place in Eloise Hawking’s, and Charles Widmore’s past.

#210. Posted by: steve at May 6, 2009 5:05 PM

How did Widmore get to LA so quickly after Des was shot? And what was he doing outside of the hospital if he had no intentions of going in to see his daughter? Eloise wasn’t surprised to see him, so maybe she tipped him off?

#211. Posted by: Skipper at May 6, 2009 5:25 PM

i have a theory that the mysterious box ben found in the motel scene with jack was a cell phone, with widmores number on it, supplied by ????
i think all the key players are in touch with eachother to either gain something,
or to confirm that they are all set for what is to come.

#212. Posted by: san at May 6, 2009 6:46 PM

I think WHH is true, but incomplete. It should be like what happened, happened, but more importantly is how it happened. The "collateral events" may be more important and the only ones that do actually change. Say in the large scheme of things, Daniel was always supposed to die, but it matters if it was at the hand of his mother, versus the bullet he took from Radzinski. Maybe he changed just that. His mom (old Ellie) knew he is going to die, but we don't know if she knew that she will kill him. Maybe Daniel was supposed to be shot by Radzinski, but something changed and he wasn't. He dies either way, but now his mom knows and she can manipulate things and try to avoid her son's death later in the future (although, I have to admit, it didn't really looked like...)

#213. Posted by: Kindalost at May 6, 2009 7:58 PM

He watched them WHAT?!?!?!?

#214. Posted by: LostedIt at May 6, 2009 9:07 PM

@205 &@206
thanks so much! i often lurk but rarely comment so i really appreciate the feedback on my theory!

@207--ransomjackson
you may very well be right... in fact, i wouldn't be surprised to find that eloise is not her own independent agent, but has been working for hanso... or paik, (and for some reason i have a hunch that hanso and paik are together working towards the same goal).
@208--san
i hope you're right! as much fun as it is to come up with the answers from the clues, it's infinitely more enjoyable when the correct answer was so mind-blowing that it didn't occur to any of us!

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