Key Points from "What Kate Does"

MIF

ILBLXX!!!!

Best line: (paraphrased, I don't remember exactly) -- Sawyer about Sayid -- He's an Iraqi torturer that shoots kids... he deserves a second time around.

GRAA, Mac. And last week's too.

1. The Hero-wifey suggests that Kate may truly be innocent in the new timeline, which could explain some of her subtly different characteristics.

2. Obviously Ethan Goodspeed got on the sub with Amy before Juliet blew up the bomb. Ethan being in Los Angeles is random, but may give us a way to learn whether the bomb is really what sunk the whole island.

3. When are we going to see Plymouth Air crash? (From last summer's promo clip)

I was also entertained by the "sense of humor" line from the translator dude (Lennon? I forget), to Jack.

Once again, I really dig the whole hating Jack thing. Sawyer isn't entertaining all depressed... and I'm sure Kate cried in the scene with Sawyer throwing the ring in the water for selfish reasons. She probably was sad because she wants him but his mind is still on Juliet. Sorry Kate, he's not looking for a rebound. Although at one point I thought he might.

We should make a dance... "Flash back, flash forward, flash sideways!!" It'd be the most confusing dance in the world.

By the way, GRAA Mac. Excellent, once again. You never disappoint.

I feel the same way about Kate episodes. But everyone knows that already.

After re-watching "LA X Pt. 2" - ENHANCED, I got more frustrated about how Kate made Jack stop trying to save Sayid. And in this episode, she just had to go running after Sawyer.

As someone said in last weeks thread, the enhanced version revealed that the ash around the cabin was to keep Smokey OUT, it was Jacob's cabin, and the break in the ash that Illana's crew discovered meant it was subject to invasion of Smokey.

This season has not let me down so far. I am very pleased, yet obviously confused.

So my boyfriend is convinced that the cab driver lost his pants and that it was blurred out when he was running from the cab. Did anyone else get that impression? I know this has no relevance to the story but he wanted me to ask.
Mac I adore you after all these years still!

What Kate Does.....is jump over the most humongous shark I've ever seen.
She's got US Marshalls chasing her, yet she drives all over town in an easily traceable cab, finds Claire at a bus stop, because of course Claire is not giving a statement to police, the police who finally show up at the hospital have no idea that Claire was in the cab when it was hijacked because they didn't question the cab driver......
I am SOOOOOOO disappointed with that whole bit of the story. Just a few minor changes could've made it a tiny bit believable.

I did love Jack: "How can I trust you when I don't trust myself?"

lingering questions from last week:

-was that Lapidus's voice over the intercom on alt815?

-Is Hurley really, really large this season and is his red t-shirt a harbinger of doom for him?

Anybody notice that the date on ultrasound (10/22/04)doesn't match date of original crash (9/22/04)?
http://i.imgur.com/ZTyvf.jpg

As much as I love Lost, I really, really, really dislike the "sideways" LA scenes. While it is slightly humorous to see Ethan as your friendly neighborhood OB/GYN, or Artz channeling Ratso Rizzo ("I'm walking over here!"), these scenes seem all filler, no meat.

So on to the temple and the far more interesting "stuff". I made the case last blog for Jacob as Life, Smokey as Death, and this epi did nothing to move me off that path.

First, Dogen administers the medieval "trial by ordeal" to Sayid- in this case, fire, electricity, and possibly, ash. This ceremony, aside from the modern enhancement of electricity, could have been taken out of "Medieval Tests for Sorcery and Witchcraft 101".

Then, they prescribe a suspicious green pill to "cure" Sayid. While the pill could be anything, there is a poisonous bean called the Calabar, which originates in the Calabar (naturally) area of Nigeria.

Why is that (maybe) important? Calabar was a hot and heavy destination for English slave ships (where have we seen an English slaver before..hmm), and the Calabar bean was administered in suspected cases of witchcraft- the innocent (Jack) spit it out, the guilty (maybe Sayid?) die from the poison.

So people die: Sayid, Locke, Christian, and possibly Ben, Claire and all the varsity members of the Rousseau science team.

They are "claimed" by some force. They are resurrected (which matches the hieroglyphics at both the FDW and the Smokey/Anubis Best Friends Memorial Plaque in the temple), become "infected", and gradually lose their humanity ("heart"), after which they become something far more darker than their original selves.

Hurley jokingly asked if Sayid was a zombie, but you could take that last paragraph and it would neatly describe virtually any vampire or zombie (in other words, the undead) movie you ever saw.

And don't even make me go into next week's coming soon quotes. I won't repeat them here for those who abhor spoilers of any kind, but let's just say that the word "dead' was repeatedly and emphatically used.

Think about it. Every season we have at least one "silly" show where everything is simply just too far out for even the most "reality bendable" mind, and yet . . . When all is said and done, we take it all at face value and joyously wait for the resolution to come . . . I'm that way already. I'm not that bothered by the "life as it should have been" and "life as it is on the island" ping-pong match going on. It all seems to be coming back to the "wacky" surprise after surprise that I enjoyed in the first season. Before I got so DEAD SERIOUS about this fabulous romp.

Admittedly, I AM intrigued by Claire, the Rousseau Redux! It's hard to beat a hot chick with a gun! Or two chicks fighting in a mud hole. Or washing off in the ocean. Or . . . Sorry. Got distracted there for a moment.

Can't wait to hear what others have to say. thanks for the recap MAC.

So this is my first post, but I've enjoyed this forum for a long while (and recommended it to others)... Mac, you can really turn a phrase and have a great knack for this -- Thanks for all the great recaps!

... now... Having said that, I am not at all happy with all this Kate-bashing! (or Jack-bashing!) Where does this come from?? She is one of the very central characters of the show, is a tough, sometimes confused, but always good-hearted character, and is gorgeous! Leave her alone! I love Jack as well. Another sometimes confused, often put-upon, but always good-hearted man. Sure, Sawyer is great, as is Locke, as are all of them... but I don't like this "characterism", if you will. If you love LOST, love 'em all, I say!

Claire should have let kate borrow her wig instead of her credit card - would have gotten kate much further. seriously, after seeing the cops in clair's room, kate is just going to walk right out of the hospital like that?

What did sayid do to make hom NOT pass the test? was he not supposed to scream and cry?

@Mac

re: I was surprised they killed off Aldo the Other

Aldo is busy with other ventures:

http://tinyurl.com/yl5gawv

He is the creator, producer, and actor for one of the funniest/twisted comedies on tv these days - "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia".

The show has many loyal fans who no doubt appreciated seeing a little bit of "Mac" (his character on his show) on Lost. Definitely not a waste of the "good stuff"!

I think Hugo's question to Sayid of whether he is a zombie is a nod to the LOST fan community. Damon and Carlton have been talking for years about doing a spin-off starring undead versions of the cast.

My favourite part was Sayid saying in ultra-wounded fashion, "They TORTURED me!" Me, the harmless Iraqi who wouldn't hurt a fly...

How did Claire know she was having a boy? In the original island birth scenario did Claire know the sex of the baby? I guess it doesn't really matter - the "2004 LAX Landed Safely" crew has many subtle differences, so I guess this could just be one of them.

Of course Dharma was there as part of the alt-timeline. Remember the dive under the ocean during the plane ride last week? Dharma village, Dharma shark.

Ethan left the island with Amy pre-Incident when he was still an infant.

What I'm wondering about is what was up with Amy, Paul and the ankh, before Ethan was born. I hope we get some satisfaction on that.

...oh and Sawyer broke my heart when he tossed that teeny tiny diamond ring into the sea. Was that a Dharma Blood Diamond? I wanted to start singing Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On". I mean, why not, if we're tossin' jewelry into the sea and stuff.

LOST haiku 6:2

I do not like this
Episode at all, damn it
I have to re-watch

Maybe Rousseau or her daughter 'claimed' Claire. They did have some unfinished business reuniting for a very short while.
Also, the reason the group even ended up at the temple was Jacob's directions to Hurley, where it could be Jacob who's 'claimed' Sayid.
Smokey's 'claimed' Locke, so it can't be him.
Can I stop using quotes around the word 'claim' now?

A kate episode has has me setting the bar very low and this ones did not disappoint. Ugh! At least we got this out o the way.Why the writers continue to be enamored with this weakest link character, I do not know Now get me back to the beach where Flocke just walked away with richard over his shoulder. Let me see whats going on with Desmond. SO many more intersting threads. If Kate will stay away from Sawyer, I could ignore her, but chasing after him when Juliet's body isnt even cold is beyond the pale.

To "add it up": The pilot's voice on the intercom of Alt815 was none other than Greg Gunberg. The actor (Alias, Heroes, etc.) who played the pilot in the Lost pilot.

Hey there! I'm another longtime reader, first time poster. I haven't seen the episode yet (I know, I know...I'm slacking), but I had to post my friend's theory just to get some feedback. Buckle up...it's not short.

Much like Star Wars (or at least my limited understanding of it) on the island there are two sides: The Light side and the Dark side. Both are essential to the island. The Light side is important for the inhabitants' protection, and the Dark for the island's protection. The Light = Jacob, and the Dark = Smokey/Man in Black/Christian. I think that as long as White and Black exist in harmony/tension, the Others can harness both powers. Remember Adam and Eve from season 1. They had two stones: one white and one black. Not just one or the other. This is why Ben, a follower of Jacob, can summon the smoke monster to kill the freighter people. Although he is a follower of Jacob, he knows the importance of the MIB in the island's protection. So he summons the smoke monster because he knows it will judge and kill all those he encounters that aren't protected (I'll get into this later). I think the power of rejuvenation in the temple fountain may also draw on the strength of the MIB. Could this be why the results are so "unpredictable" and "risky". Up until his death, Jacob protects the Others from Smokey. The sonar fence isn't there to protect the Others but Dharma. The Others come and go as they please. I think the fence is only kept operational by Ben to keep out pesky intruders.

At some point in the past Widmore is banished from the island. I think he does this at Jacob's request because Widmore has become too aligned with the the Dark Side. Maybe this is why Ben cannot kill Widmore (much like Jacob can't kill MIB). He sends the Freighter to get revenge on Ben, but Widmore also knows that he can get back to the island if he helps the MIB kill Jacob. He knows that the MIB can’t kill Jacob himself, and none of his followers would ever dare to do so, so he finds a loophole by taking up Locke's body and convincing Ben to do so himself. Jacob has no power to protect himself against his own people. This is why he needs body guards. This is why he doesn’t fight back against Ben. Christian Shephard, the previous vessel for MIB, is adamant that Locke (and not Ben) turn the donkey wheel because this will set into motion the sequence of events that will inevitably lead to Jacob's murder. Who is waiting for Locke when he arrives in Tunisia? None other than Widmore himself. And who insists that Locke's dead body return with the Oceanic 6, Eloise Hawking (Widmore's former partner in crime). Ilana and the Shadow of the Statue people know Widmore is up to no good. This is why they try to convince Miles not to join the freighter crew. Their primary goal is to defend Jacob.
Now with Jacob dead, the Others have no control over Smokey and they need a circle of ash for protection.

Now about that "protection" I talked about earlier. I think Jacob's "touch" confers "chosen-status" and protection from Smokey. Jacob brings a lot of people to the island, but not everyone he brings is a candidate to be an Other (i.e the captain of 815 who gets killed by Smokey). Remember those lists of Jacob's chosen people. There are no island natives per se, just people "touched by Jacob" who become others and perhaps do not age (i.e. Richard who presumably came on the Black Rock). Some people make the cut and the rest are left to fend for themselves.

We already know that people who die on the island become part of Smokey/MIB (Christian, Alex, Yemi, etc.) These people were unprotected by Jacob. Sayid on the other hand was touched by Jacob. His death would be all the more devastating because it would give the MIB the upper hand. With Sayid resurrected the war that Widmore spoke of to Locke may be more even-handed.

Thoughts?

From MAC's recap: In case you're wondering (and I know some people are because I wondered this myself), the guy running the chop shop in the alt timeline is not Tom Friendly.

I don't know his name, but this actor first showed up in CHINA BEACH years ago as the pseudo love interest to the Dana Delaney nurse character (Desperate Housewives). He usually plays a villain. A real nasty one of Walker, Texas Ranger several years ago.

did sayid's wound heal w/ the bullet still inside of him?

Do u think the electric shocks that sayid received the same frequency as the sonic fence? Is that why he didn't pass the test?

I do have one question.

Last week there was made mention that of all the folks on the “life as it would have been” airplane, Jack seemed to have a moment of “vague recollection”. I know, it’s tough to think about it with all the griping we’ll no doubt do about the airport scene this episode, but didn’t that same look of “vague recognition” come on Kate’s face when she glimpsed Jack on the sidewalk at the airport?

this episode was just ok for me, although josh holloway brought it home this episode. he just gets better and better and like mac i hope he goes on to do good things after lost.

on last weeks blog alot of people were wondering about dogen. not many may recognize him but he is a really good actor and a very nice person. if you ever get the chance to check out the movie "the last samurai", he was phenomenial as ken wantabee's(who shouldve won an oscar for his performance) right hand man. one of my all time favorite movies and the battle scenes were some of the best. just an fyi. :)

claire as a badass, interesting story arc and curious how she came to be that way.......

i'm not sure where they are going with the sayid story line, nor if i will like it.......

i dont really have anything to add, just wanted to get those things out there.

namaste!!!!

Claire of the Jungle (Rousseau Redux) was awesome. I wonder if she's gonna go on a Rousseau-esque Oy-want-moy-boybee-back crusade, shouting AAAAAAAARRRROOOOONNNNNN all over the place a la Michael.

Kate's storyline unbelievable, unrealistic, and far-fetched. My disbelief is suspended so far out there it's ferrying traffic over the SF Bay.

IASIP with Rob McIlhenny is the funniest show on television right now. Well, not right now, but when it starts up again.

Dogen's baseball? $1 says it's from the BoSox world series.

I agree Mac that the episode had many impossible situations…Why would Claire ride with someone who just held her at gun point?? Sawyer’s acting was phenomenal and I was overly impressed…The real question is if Claire and Sayid share the same infection when did Claire die? The explosion in New Otherton? I was thinking that maybe Danielle had it backwards and maybe she was infected not her team? Aldo’s henchman was about to mention Claire after he said Danielle’s name

I had a thought about last week's episode. I think when Jacob said "They're coming" he was refering to Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc. I think his death, and not the bomb, brought them back to 2007. Jacob did appear to Hurley shortly after they time jumped.

Last night's episode made me finally agree with others on how selfish and annoying Kate has become. She annoyed me last week when she started to whine at Jack while he was trying to resusitate Sayid. "Jaaaack. Stoooop. He's goooone." When did she get her MD? I'm pretty sure most people can get revived shortly after drowning! In this week's episode she so selfishly breaks the law with every move she makes, and puts everyone else in danger, focusing on her own wants. She even tries to convince
Claire she's innocent. Back on the island, she's being all google-eyed with Sawyer. Didn't she just sleep with Jack less than a week ago? She is so insensitive! And she can't take the hint Sawyer wants nothing to do with her. She even cries and feels sorry for herself after he throws Juliet's engagement ring off the dock. Boo hoo. He loved Juliet! Get a life Kate! I was so hoping Sawyer shot her back in Darmaville as she intruded during his moment of grief!

On another note, if Sayid and Claire are infected, is Ben infected too? Are you on the "bad side" when infected, and is that the side of the man in black? And if that's true, why did Claire help Jin? Do they need him on their side?

Why did Dogen try so hard to make Jack spit out the poison? Didn't he order his crew to shoot all of them just a short while ago? Is it because he knows they are with Jacob now? Also, why did they let Jin, Kate, and two of their own out so easily when they just frantically secured the fort?

omg - i just realized that the mixture of green paste that Dogen was mixing could be the same green paste that Locke mixed up when he drugged boone.

@15 and 30 - shikotee and ransom jack....when I saw him, I yelled out "MAC!" and had to rewind to make sure it was really him. Always Sunny is the funniest show on television, agreed. I was thinking that including AS's Mac was a shout out to our Mac???? Perhaps???? And was there any truth to him being the guard that Kate knocked out when she escaped the bear jail?

I like the parallel between Rousseau and Claire - both did lose their children to the island in a way, right? I wonder if that has anything to do with being claimed or infected or whatever...On another Claire note, when Dogen said she was claimed by the dark thing, wasn't it Pseudo Christian that lured her out of/into the cabin a few seasons ago?

As far as Sayid's torture scene, it only furthered my belief (well I guess it's everyone's belief at this point) that something else is inhabiting him at the moment as I don't think Bad-A**-Torturing-Been-Tortured-Before Sayid would have reacted and yelped the way he did while being subjected to Dogen's "tests"....I am not sure how else he (or anyone) would have reacted at that moment, but it's just something I noticed...

I am intrigued by the Dogen/Jack dynamic....now Jack has to wrestle with another man of science...I wonder how that will go...

I noticed the change os swoosh sound too...but I thought it sounded more like airplane noises...

WGNABB!

If Dogen is the leader of the others (according to his chat with Jack), then who did Richard/Widmore/Ben lead?

It seems to be just one group of Others, even if some live in the temple - witness Aldo being on Hydra Island, then moving to the temple.

Besides some awesome, this week had all the worst elements of Lost - unbelievably poor procedural (like Kate's trial once upon a time) (agreed @14), Kate being Kate (sorry @13), and finally the Losties appearing to ask questions but then giving up feebly.

Doesn't it really seem like we've learned practically nothing in 3 episodes? I remember more revelations from previous premieres.

I'm with you Red Neck Man - I was thinking near the end of the episode that we have 14 episodes left and they are laying this episode on us??? I'm not a Claire fan , so spending the next 13 episodes finding out she's the holy grail of the island world is disappointing. Sorry to be Diggler-downer, but that was not a good episode.

@34 Vikki
I too was thinking airplane noises when I ehard the swoosh.

Also I couldn't help but think of Star Wars/Han Solo references in this episode. After the torture Sayid says "They never even asked me any questions"

And the Other dude (when Kate points out that one of the trails is a fake and Sawyer went a different way) says something like "after you Princess" (don't remember the exact line) but it reminded me of Leia trying to lead the way around the Death Star and Han getting upset by it.

I do remember Mac as prison guard a few years ago. If I'm not mistaken, he was leaning back in his chair, leaning against a building, reading A Brief History of Time when Katy-kins bonked him on the bean.

Where's Dennis, Charlie, Frank, and Sweet Dee?!?!

besides some awesome SAWYER, that was supposed to say.

"Excuse me Miss, are there any fugitive killers in here?"
"Uh, no."
"Thank You Miss." "C'mon, let's go get a donut."

Like others, I've followed this site for a long time. It is the BEST!

A couple of thoughts, and then I have to go to work.

1. Wasn't there an episode in a past season called "What Kate Did"? Is that the one when she helped deliver Claire's baby? This one was called "What Kate Does"? Comments?

2. Jacob's body was pushed into the fire by Flocke. If a body is burned, maybe it can't be claimed or resurrected. There was a death in a past season (one of the pregnant women or the lady Other that was shot by Sun on the boat) where the body was burned in a floating pyre at sea. The only appearances of "dead" folks have been in bodies that weren't burned.

Just random thoughts.

I posted this comment in last week's episode recap:

Now, after the Others at the Temple heard Jacob was dead, the immediate reaction was PANIC. Ash around the grounds to ward off Smokey's attacks. Firing off rockets and grabbing arms: The reaction was like defending the palace from a coup.

And as tangent in looking up the word, there is a historical North American Indian word "coup" which means the act of touching an armed enemy in battle as a deed of bravery or an act of first touching an item of the enemy's in order to claim it. Add another item on the Jacob touching theory pile.

>>> An ancient Chinese rocket went off in my head when Dogen said Sayid had been CLAIMED. He also indicated that the "infection" would increase until it made its way to his heart. Sayid is possessed with an (evil) spirit. If so, in the Egyptian final judgment, a person's heart is weighed against a feather. If a person's heart is burdened with sins, it would weigh more resulting in the person's ba and ka to be destroyed (i.e. no eternal life).

>>> This also got me to thinking about once an Egyptian person dies, their soul, personality and life force separately goes to the underworld, joined by a substitute body, for a journey through the afterlife towards final judgment. With this concept of Sayid being possessed, I think Jacob and MIB are the same person (the last Pharoah?) but upon his death, his soul and spirit did not recombine in the underworld leading to the conflict between the two entities. One is trying to recombine, the other does not want to recombine because that would mean final judgment.

>>> Also, I had postulated that in order for Jacob to reincarnate, he needed to have all his "touched" persons together in the same place and time. At the Temple, only Sun was missing. Now, in this episode, what happens? Three of the elements, Sawyer, Kate and Jin go rushing off into the jungle!

AAAAHHHHH! It's only 9:30 and there are 40 posts already...geesh! Off to read...

@ Mac

"Infected or not, Claire best watch herself. Jin's in no mood." You crack me up, Mac.

Why was Dogen in such a panic (after hearing about Jacob's death) in last week's episode and now he suddenly has time to make tea? AND play with a baseball? doesn't he have some swords to polish, or knives to sharpen?

I think the test to see if you are infected by the darkness has to do with pain.

Remembering back when Jin saw Rousseau's team pulled into the depths of the temple by Smokey you hear screaming pain until his arm comes off then you hear nothing. I think once changed you don't feel pain anymore.

Dogen was testing Sayid to see if he felt pain and somehow Dogen realized that Sayid was faking it. Maybe he had the electrocution level on high enough to cause someone to pass out or something else.

Also people who are infected tend to be near death. Claire was stumbling out of the explosion in Otherville where she was in the forest before Christian found her. Does smokey need to be physically near the dying person to infect them?

This episode was just strange. I felt like all the characters were in the wrong timeline and “acting” their lines, but somehow knowing things should be different. And that applied to both on and off island.

On the island, Kate looked like she was running through a fake jungle-set. She was exhibiting old Kate behavior of chasing either Sawyer/Jack (whichever one is currently giving her the cold shoulder.) In LA, Kate was having the same “almost-knowing” looks that Jack had on the plane last week. Did you notice her reaction when Claire was calling out Aaron’s name? It reminds me of Des when he jumped back to 1996 and knew things were different, but couldn’t remember exactly how at first. My guess is some of our Losties will be using the knowledge gained in their island days to correct their character flaws in the Alt-timeline, even if they don’t remember exactly why. “What Kate Does” is run away, but here she felt compelled to go back for Claire. As Mac said, that is completely against everything we know about how fugitive Kate operates.

As for Sayid and Claire, remember how Rousseau’s husband behaved when she confronted him about being “infected”? He told her he loved her to convince her to put down the gun, and then he tried to shoot her (before she shot him.) Dogen said when it gets to Sayid’s heart, there will be nothing of him left. Is there anything left of Claire? Can she or Sayid overcome the “infection” or are they servants/vessels to a dark force with nothing left of themselves? If I were Jin, I’d be wary of that confused look on jungle-Claire’s face.

At least costuming did a better job with Claire’s wig this season. But now it’s just way too big and full. Even when Emilie had long hair, it was never that thick. But I promise not to complain about the wig all season.

@ 44. Skipper: Yeah, Dogen tells Jack there's no time to explain... while he waits for Jack to go to Sayid, and dawdle, and come back, and..

What was Dogen doing that was so urgent, reading the future from which way the baseball spins?

@38...ransom jack: I would like to see Rickety Crickets running from the mafia through the island woods...now that would be funny! :)

The Night Man Cometh!

Behold! Green Man!!

If MattS' pain theory is correct, I'll betcha that the jumper cable gizmo puts out no electrical charge whatsoever. That poker looked kinda painful tho...

I thought that the little pill had ash in it. Kinda like giving a vampire a holy water enema.

February is "Sweeps Month" for ratings revenue? They should have swept this stinker under the carpet. I can't believe Bad Robot aired this Nikki & Paulo swill so late in the game. Kate & Claire are officially the new Nikki & Paolo. Plus ultra-complex Mister Miyagi is a laughing stock... and more suited to "Heroes" charactherisations.

Maybe some dead are claimed by the good side (Claire, Christian) and others are claimed by the bad/smokey side (Russeau's team, Ben, Yemi, Sayid *sniff*). The risk is you don't know which side will claim them. But if they are buried, they are not claimed at all.

Anybody else worried about the “sideways” world? When Ethan showed up it didn’t seem to mean anything to me because why should we be invested in a what if scenario? Also Kate looking in the mirror might have some significance. She went in there to “change” and seemed like a different person after looking in the mirror just like Jack last week. Could the mirror be what jogs their “sideways” memories?

I take all the "they would never do that" moments from this ep - like when Kate comes back to pick up Claire, and the friendship they develop - to be a major hint that subconsciously, they are "remembering" the 1st time line. This holds true with Claire shouts "Aaron!" in the hospital, even though in Time line 1 she didnt know what to name the baby for a week or so.. Love this concept!

I like this Dogen character but it does seem really odd they would introduce such a seemingly major character so late in the game. Makes me a little uncomfortable. Why have we not seen most of these characters before? They couldn't have had one of them pop up earlier somewhere so they would be a little familiar?
Also makes me wonder what the leadership structure of the Others is. Does Richard outrank Dogen? Are they equals?
The whole Kate driving around in the taxi thing seemed a bit ludicrous to me. For some one so used to being on the run I would expect a bit more savvy to ditch the car and obtain a new ride.
I liked the episode. Lost is as mindbending and frustrating as ever but it just seems like theyre still raising new questions. At some point some major character is going to have to spill a whole lot of beans to explain the key questions.

@#46
Yeah, what's up with all the wigs?
It looks like Sun's wearing one too.

@ mac: hashish reference was excellent....I'm positive Dogen can score some too, even if it's in pill form....

I think the guy who was in the crosswalk blocking Kate/Claire's cab was Dr. Artz, the chemistry teacher who ended up blowing himself up with dynamite

The theme of redemption is looming large. Jack is offered a chance to "redeem" himself by getting Sayid to take the pill. Sayid is tortured (as redemption for being a lifelong torturer himself?)

"43 minutes in a coffin" - LOL! That was great, although really it would now be 43 minutes in the sand since that's where the real Locke currently resides. He's got to be smelly by now.

Josh Holloway is great, I agree. Sawyer started out as one of the most annoying characters on the show for me but has become one of the most compelling and liked characters. He's got such a great character arc. I think he's found redemption more than any other character and suffered heavily for it.

I knew going into this season that the promo material - "The time for questions is over"- was a bunch of bologna, but damn - this episode drove me crazy. All will be made clear, I'm sure, but it was just nothing but mystery and more questions. It was great to see Claire again though - that made all the confusion worth it.

I wonder how far we're get into the season before they finally get around to Widmore and all that stuff.

Now to read through the posts...

As much as I never thought say this, I am not enamored with Lost this season. Yet. I have been such an obsessed fan up till now and am not giving up hope.

It all just feels very forced and we are piling up yet more questions and have very little answers. I feel like things are fraying apart instead of coming together. sigh...

@ #11 Mizzed: I totally agree with your Life/Deathchoice scenairio. Insteresting info too about the calabar bean and your suggested ties into the hieroglyphics on the statue wall.

Random catch: The stuffed Orka that kate finds in Claire's luggage is the same one that we saw toddler Aaron toting around when living with Kate and Jack.

If Sayid is 'claimed', what happens if he swallows the pill? Does he go back to being dead?

Ugh the whole Kate/Claire end of the episode was one big yawn-fest of incredulity for me. I was far more interested in the Sayid/Dogen/Jack moments. I too thought it was very unlike our Sayid to be such a wimp in the face of his "testing."

Mac - loved this: "His name is Dogen. He owns a typewriter and a baseball." I wonder what he was typing - his memoirs???

Can't wait to read all your comments!

I have disliked the Kate-centric episodes. I have grown tired of the Kate mini-soap opera of who is going to take her to the jungle prom.

Jack and Dogen's (slow but sure) bonding will finally yield some long awaited answers- and translator Lennon ain't gonna be happy being the odd man out.

Why didn't Miles talk to Sayid when he died? Or did he, and is just not saying? He seemed to know something when Hurley told Sayid upon his death "If you ever need to talk, come see me".

I have an idea to help quell the frustrations of all those irritated with Kate mooning over Sawyer while he's grieving for Juliet. Oh, how we miss the days of the love rhombus, right?

How about if during Sawyer and Juliet's flash sideways dutch coffe date, Kate shows up. She proceeds to hit on Sawyer and Juliet finally, really gets to kick Kate's arse...right in the middle of Starbucks no less. That would provide closure and some satisfaction for all of us who were rooting for Juliet, right?

Few comments:

I think all the things that people felt were ridiculous in this episode couldn't be a bunch of mistakes by the writers/crew. It's just too much. I think there has to be an explanation for it.

I've felt from the first season that Claire would end up being a lynch pin in the entire series. We never actually learned what happened to her when she disappeared in season 2 for a short while (it was season 2, right?). We learned some of it but I don't think we learned all of it. Then she up and disappears in season 3 or 4 (it's all blurring together nowadays) and is seen briefly with Christian at Jacob's cabin. I think when we discover the full extent of her story we'll know pretty much everything.

I also noticed the shifting-to-alternate-timeline sounds. To me it sounds like something being played backwards. Don't know if there's any significance to that but that's what I get from it.

One lingering thought: I'm not wholly convinced Juliet managed to set off the bomb at the end of season 5. If you watch the season finally you can hear all the sounds we've heard before when the island 'jumps'. We end with a white flash, which we've seen before, also when the island 'jumps'. Maybe the pocket of energy ruptured and the season actually ended on a time flash. Either way, why did they end up in a different location this year? I don't get that.

UGH! Kate episodes! At least we get witty banter in the jungle, some great Sawyer moments, and Clarie!

Mac, I assumed that Amy and young Ethan were evacuated when Dr. Chang ordered all women and children off of the Island.

@6. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: I said that, and you're welcome.

@9. add it up: It was not Frank Lapidus, it was Captain Norris, the original pilot we saw get smited (smote?) by Smokey in the Pilot.

@11. Mizzed: I took the Zombie question as a nod to the Zombie season that Darlton has been joking about doing for years now. On an older Podcast ***SPOILERS?*** Darlton stated that they have a big board with photos of all the cast. They are separated into 3 categories, live, dead, and undead. At the time (season 4) there were only 3 photos in undead section...Christian, Yemi, and Kate's horse...****

@12. davidrh: Yes, and notice how that episode is always a Kate episode? Surprising, Eggtown and What Kate Does were not written by the same pair of writers...

@13. Capybara: I like Kate as she interacts with the group, but I have not enjoyed a Kate-centric episode since Season 3. I also don't understand the Jack-hate on here, but I have enjoyed watching him get the crap beat out of him this season!

@17. Jo: LOL!

@28. davidrh: Jack and Kate met on the plane, he could have recognized her from there...since she was close enough to reach into his pocket!

@35. LockeBox: Well we got the confirmation that Flocke is Smokey, we got to see the Temple, two pretty big reveals if you ask me.

@40. lostsox: LMAO!

I did not know what to make of this quiet episode. Many of you are saying that the show is still introducing plot and new characters but maybe we are supposed to be sifting through this and answering the questions we have with this new info.I am patiently waiting for you all to figure it out for me.

As to Kate, I think she always made bad choices. That what Kate does. The heart of gold is not an asset, it's her downfall. She blows her father up and then tells her mother that she did it expecting to be rewarded instead of being greeted by an agry mom who says she loved him. Why not just say she didn't know anything about it? or disappear? And when the Aussie farmer was about to turn her in, she takes the time to get him out of the way so he wouldn't be killed instead of getting a head start. Didn't sh make bad choices when she got her childhood friend killed ( I can't remember off hand)and when they were looking for her, she takes the time to go visit her real dad, instead of keeping out of site. trying to visit her mom when Cassidy (Spelling?)helps her out.I think Kate is a tragic figure. What Kate does is screw things up.

And I don't understand the writers saying that the two scenarios are just as true as any flashback/forward we have seen. How can they both be true and going on at the same time and not be an alternate reality? Are we sure that the plane they on was the same 815 as the one that crashed? I did not see the number anywhere. and would that make a difference?

First of all when I realized it was a Kate centric episode I had to BOOOOOOOO.

Secondly, why was badass sayid acting like a whiny b*tch on the table when he was getting shocked. That is not how he would have normally acted. It almost seemed like how Locke acted. When he screamed "Why are you doing this?" it sounded like what Locke was thinking when Ben killed him. Is it possible that Locke took Sayid's body? He just seems a lot more whiny and a lot more like Locke.

@68. Seriously, has it been confirmed that DeadLocke is Smokey? I mean, it seems pretty clear, but then it was just for a "grand entrance" that the smoke monster poured into the room when DeadLocke had been standing right behind the pillar? Just bugs me.

I guess I'm feeling very bugged after 3 weak hours.

Random thought- Now that we know Claire is back…what if when she was talking to Kate in Aaron’s bedroom in the season 4 finale when she said ‘ Don’t bring him back Kate no matter what” if she was talking about dead Locke’s body not Aaron…Could be possible with some thinking MIB took over Claire and Sayid?

I think we are to assume that Claire became infected when Keamy's men blew up her house. For a minute it appeared she had died when Sawyer found her sprawled out on the ground. When she woke up, she was very confused, like Sayid is now.

Later, in the jungle, Miles was staring at her suspiciously (before Sawyer put a restraining order on him), similar to how he was asking Sayid disbelieving questions ("Did you see a bright light? Anything?" or something like that).

Then, apparently after the infection spread to her heart, she wandered off into the jungle after Christian.

Loved that Sayid whined about being tortured. Seriously? Iraqi National Guard and former prisoner of Rousseau and you're going to whine about a little puff of dust and then electrical current? Not likely. The original Sayid was a tougher customer than that. Don't know what that portends exactly.

Agree that Always Sunny is the funniest thing on tv these days. Was just waiting for Frank and Charlie to bumble out of the jungle to tell Mac about their latest scheme.

Still waiting for my questions to be answered...still waiting...

@65 BEHM: My first thought was Miles knew right away that Sayid was no longer Sayid.

This Kate centric epi maybe a real low point. It's even reached the funnies!

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/bc;_ylt=ArWv_T0XuPWM2lEogGdFbI_ocLQF

How did Sawyer get hold of a gun? Did the Temple Others check him for weapon before they took him there? Have I missed anything?

If there is one thing I don't get is that, in my opinion, this is still one of the better shows on tv. Some character can be selfish and stupid at times, but that is real life. Looking back at the older episodes, we are finally learning about the true nature of the island. If there are still many unknowns then good. They obviously can't write the show to suite everone and if they made it any more complex their rating will drop off the chart. I still look forward to the show every week and will be upset next year when all we have to go back to is all the police crap dramas that are left. Long live the mysteries that remain and bring on some new ones.

@71.LockeBox: Yes. After he reverts back to Flocke, he tells Ben "Sorry you had to see me like that". Also, Darlton confirmed it both on Jimmy Kimmel Live and the Podcast.

So I now have to wonder, was Rousseau infected as well?

Love Mac's work and have been here since the beginning but also enjoy Jensen's insight and for this episode he is helpful. Or at least fun.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20343202,00.html

I am feeling the same way as many of you about the Kate episode. I just can't think of a reason why we needed to see what we saw.

I do find it interesting that the whole being touched thing could be connected to being claimed after death. Seems like those who were touched are being claimed as the undead. which side is claiming though is another, or should I say an-other, matter.

That reminds me... since Juliet was an other, but was marked as punishment for killing Danny, does that make her fair game in the claim department?

What did Kate do in this episode? Other than to tell Claire to keep/raise the bay. Did I miss something?

I agree that Josh Holloway displayed fine acting in this episode (and last week's, too).

Seems Jack turned a corner - he stopped and questioned what he was told to do. This is different. I think Jacob's final words to Ben - You have a choice - is significant for all the characters.

Jacob's words to his nemesis: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress. Has Jack made progress?

Dogen ordered the intruders be shot before he saw Jacob's note, and yet last night he and Lennon seemed to know all about them: Jack and Claire are siblings, "Sawyer's" real name is Ford...

And if the Losties are special, why would Aldo even consider killing Kate or Jin?

@83. LockeBox: Because Aldo is sick of getting hit in the face!

I absolutely agree with those above who think the differences we're seeing in the characters in the new timeline (why would Kate go back for Claire?) are intentional and important. We're seeing the differences in the new timeline continued from the differences we saw on the plane, which the writers said are intentional and important. I think it's the "progress" made on the island in the first 5 seasons. No idea how the two timelines will be resolved though.

Also agree that the difference in Sayid is very similar to the differences in Claire after she "died" in the explosion. Probably different from the differences in Ben after being healed at the temple because I think Sayid died and was "claimed", while Ben did not. I like the idea of bodies being claimed by good or bad forces, but I'm having trouble figuring out how that could work.

And I agree that Kate is annoying and this episode was not as good as some, but still better than 95% of what's on TV.

Could we not really know the island "Jacob" from Off-island-Jacob? If, as Doc Jensen calls it, "The Locke-ness Monster' can take the form of others, why not the take the form of Jacob as well?

I totally agree with Kate episodes being, well, a little boring!

a few points of interest though...

Kate's reaction when Claire called the baby "Aaron". A little recognition there? Maybe a memory?

Did you notice the way Miles was acting after Sawyer made him see what Juliet (in the grave) wanted to tell him ("it worked"). He sat there after Sawyer walked off and seemed to be listening intently to something, also when Sayid died at the temple, it looks to me like he seemed to be listening intently to something then too. Even Hurley gave him a look and said "what?"

I can't help wondering if he is hearing some chatter from who/what has "infected" Sayid or maybe it's talking directly to him. If that's true then whoever infected Sayid is dead so why didn't Hurley see them. Which leads me to another question--why couldn't Miles hear Jacob when he came to talk to Hurley about taking Sayid to the temple?

Maybe Hurley is on Jacob's list and Miles is on MIB's list and they only communicate with the ones on their list. Like a nice and naughty list. I guess Santa will be in the next episode! Sorry, this show is making my mind swirl but I still love it!!

O====================

@mac

So where, in the midst of all the chaos, did Sawyer GET an engagement ring for Juliet?

-----

>I'm curious about this infection business. Is this the same malady that worked its way through Rousseau's team? Or was that something different? And how is it transmitted?

I'm thinking that "infected" and "Claimed" are the same thing and he's about to become a host to Jacob, MIB/Flocke, and/or other *as yet unseen* Island Overlords.

O====================

@4 Herobill:

>Obviously Ethan Goodspeed got on the sub with Amy before Juliet blew up the bomb. Ethan being in Los Angeles is random, but may give us a way to learn whether the bomb is really what sunk the whole island.

But Ethan had defected to the Others long before that as evidenced by the fact he was along Ben's "Kill Rousseau" mission that turned into a "Kidnap Alex" mission.

O====================

@9 add it up:

>-Is Hurley really, really large this season and is his red t-shirt a harbinger of doom for him?

Large and in charge. I like this new Hurley and new-Hurley wears red in defiance of the conventions.

O====================

All:

For a second there I thought Kate was going to deliver Claire's baby out in the street. I could just see the dialogue,,,

Kate: "I can do this, I've done it before."
Claire: "You've delivered a baby before?"
Kate: "I've delivered *your* baby before."

O====================

@65 BEMH wondered:

>Why didn't Miles talk to Sayid when he died? Or did he, and is just not saying? He seemed to know something when Hurley told Sayid upon his death "If you ever need to talk, come see me".

It looked to me like he was try9ing and coming up blank, and he showed a great deal of surprise. Later he was very interested in what Sayid experienced from his side; "Angels? Dead relatives? Bright lights?"

O====================

@69 berkyo wondered:

>And I don't understand the writers saying that the two scenarios are just as true as any flashback/forward we have seen. How can they both be true and going on at the same time and not be an alternate reality? Are we sure that the plane they on was the same 815 as the one that crashed?

I've got an idea about that, and I'm working it into my grand (scientific) scenario/theory if I ever get time to write it down:

@mac! How about a theories blog to give a permanent place to post such instead of in episode blogs.

O====================

@71 LockeBox asked:

>Seriously, has it been confirmed that DeadLocke is Smokey? I mean, it seems pretty clear, but then it was just for a "grand entrance" that the smoke monster poured into the room when DeadLocke had been standing right behind the pillar?

After the Bram crew smackdown Flocke reappeared and said to Ben "I'm sorry you had to see me like that."

O====================

@78 Glen

>I still look forward to the show every week and will be upset next year when all we have to go back to is all the police crap dramas that are left. Long live the mysteries that remain and bring on some new ones.

Might I put in a word for "Fringe"? Crazy scientists, daring heroes and heroines, an alternate world, a coming war, more mysteries than you can shake a stick at, and a JJ Abrams production, to boot. Sound familiar? Even ends with "Bad Robot!".

Click my name below to go to the blog.

O====================

Another random query...

Why is it the Smokie, Locke-ness monster cannot seem to go very far from the ground? The monster appears to have a limit to the distance from the ground that it can fly. many references to the height of the temple outer wall, and the fact that the sound fence stops smokie in it's tracks. Couldn't a floating cloud of smoke fly over the fence just like birds do. I don't recall seeing a host of dead birds just on the other side of the barrier. even Flocke goes under the temple wall.

Any ideas? Is this important?

@88. Cecil Rose: After the Bram crew smackdown Flocke reappeared and said to Ben "I'm sorry you had to see me like that."

See, one more thing, and then I'll be quiet here for a while: that line never made any sense to me. Ben already *summoned* the smoke monster to whup Keamey, and got frightened by Smokey underneath the temple ruins. What was new?

@mac:

re: the comment above. Oops, I remember/see that there already is a Lost Theories blog, and all we need is for it to be openeed back up to comments.

@90 Lockebox:

What was new is Ben realizing that the Smoke Monster was - at least in come sense - a person.

@88. Cecil Rose: The bomb went off in 1977. Alex was born in 1988. If the bomb did sink the island, then the French Research Team would also never had made it there.

Ethan was under the age of three when the bomb went off, since Juliet delivered him and she was only in Dharma from 1974-77. No way he had already defected to the Others.

When Dogen used the term "claimed" to describe Sayid's condition, several things came to mind. First, possession by an outside force, such as an (evil) spirit. Second, a more scientific explanation, like an infection. Rousseau claimed to Sayid that all the Others were infected by the "sickness." And we learned she was referring to the transformation of humans after being captured (consumed) by Smokey. It is also of note that when Desmond was caged up in the Hatch, he was routinely giving himself a "vaccine" against an unknown illness. That is why the Island was under some kind of quarantine.

In a pseudo-scientific explanation of the Dogen analysis could follow the pattern of a supernatural staph infection:

Staph bacteria are normally found on the skin or in the nose of about one-third of the population. If you have staph on your skin or in your nose but aren't sick, you are said to be "colonized" but not infected. Healthy people can be colonized and have no ill effects. However, they can pass the germ to others.

>>>> This is what could have happened to the 815ers. Once they were "brought" to the Island, they have been in contact with the Island bacteria and "colonized."

Staph bacteria are generally harmless unless they enter the body through a cut or other wound, and even then they often cause only minor skin problems in healthy people.

>>>> More proof that you are safe unless you have an open portal for the Island bacteria to invade a body. Prime example: Sayid's gunshot wound in the belly.

A weakened individual can have the bacteria grow into a serious infection. The bacteria could be immune from antibiotics as over time the germs find a resistance to the drugs. Also, germ mutations can form making current antibiotics ineffective.

Using this foundational knowledge, we can transfer it to a sci-fi plane of existence:

Smokey can have the pattern of a mutant Island bacteria colony. It can infect human bodies when they are in a weakened state, such as just before death. Example, during the freighter fire-fight, Claire's cabin was blown up, and she came back to life in a groggy state (just like Sayid at the Temple). Dogen claims that Claire is like Sayid, infected by the darkness that will spread to their heart, obliterating that person as you would know them (like Flocke). Whether this Smokey bacteria can be a parasite and use dead bodies like Christian as a reanimated host is unclear. There may be two different minute cellular organisms at work.

The bacteria can only take hold with a weakened individual. In an Island sense, that may mean an individual whose mental or moral state has been weakened to a state of collapse and abandonment of hope. Sayid's conversation to Hurley at the van was a good example: Sayid was resigned to his fate because knew his time was up, and he knew he was going to hell ("an unpleasant place"). But little did he know, he would have a second chance on the Island to become a different kind of monster.

I think that since the Island is a spiritual place, elements such as free will and faith have more power than in a material world. A person who is in a weakened spiritual state would be in greater danger of being infected by then consumed by the dark side.

#74. Posted by: amy lardie

re: Sayid. Seriously? Iraqi National Guard and former prisoner of .......
***********
Q: Iraqi 'National' Guard?

Interesting - does that mean he only only tortures one weekend a month, and two weeks every summer?

(answer: Iraqi Republican Guard)

I can't help wondering if he is hearing some chatter from who/what has "infected" Sayid or maybe it's talking directly to him. If that's true then whoever infected Sayid is dead so why didn't Hurley see them. Which leads me to another question--why couldn't Miles hear Jacob when he came to talk to Hurley about taking Sayid to the temple?

Maybe Hurley is on Jacob's list and Miles is on MIB's list and they only communicate with the ones on their list. Like a nice and naughty list. I guess Santa will be in the next episode! Sorry, this show is making my mind swirl but I still love it!!
#87. Posted by: gg at February 10, 2010 2:04 PM

Miles can't talk to dead people unless he has something of theirs or he's near their grave. remember the grieving dad who lost his son and hired Miles to communicate with him. Miles lied and said that he spoke to him, then later confessed and returned the money to the grieving father.

#13. Posted by: Capybara thankyou for defending jack and kate--I like jack, educated, successful, ballsy (like when he took the pill) and always puts his heart out there, please don't throw tomatoes at me but he can breathe on me anytime....

and I don't think kate's motives are to find love - it's to be the kind of parent she didn't have. a selfless one. I think it's pretty noble how kate is so determined to find claire for aaron's sake -she's snot lovesick, she's focused --she wouldn't even kiss jack goodbye.

#32. Posted by: BEMH - I think you're right that Jacob saying they're coming refers to the Losties who will be the ones to finally "end" it.

#67. Posted by: badsmokeybad - the digital tv guide info for last week said "The aftermath from Juliet's detonation of the hydrogen bomb is revealed" .so we can be pretty sure the bomb did go off but they time-foomed just before or simultaneously

I think this episode was just to show that the new no-crash-timeline is just a beltway that will intersect with the interstate of the on-island-timeline.

Love this season so far! I'm ready for and ending.

Did anyone catch that the lady who was backed out of the adoption of Aaron was Juiliet's sister? I may be wrong.

@98. Chris: I'll have whatever it is you're smoking! That is totally not Juliet's sister!

I wonder if in the flash-sideways Claire was also told by the psychic that she must be the one to raise Aaron and if that had anything to do with the adoption falling through???

@69 berkyo...you asked regarding the two timelines: How can they both be true and going on at the same time and not be an alternate reality?

Unless - gasp, NO!!! - one of the two is someone's dream.....ugh! Let's pray that's not the case...

(smells episode, tastes episode)

hmm... needs more Vincent.

Something else to think about: the most important aspect of nearly every Kate centered epsisode...Aaron!!! I've always believed that Aaron is the key to the entire show and the ultimate reality of the what the show is and always was. I saw a really important tidbit of info in "What Kate Does," which occurs when Kate, Claire and Doc Goodspeed are in the hospital. While quick and understated, I think it was the most important part of the episode-- when the baby's heartbeat on the monitor appeared to flatline, and then come back. This could represent something happening to Aaron for a brief moment prior to being born. Just like what happened in his original after 815 crash timeline. In the pilot, the same thing happened. Claire couldn't feel the baby kick for a while, maybe Aaron actually died in utero as a result of 815 plane crash? Then, Claire ate the fish, the fish with unique healing properties from the island (remnants from the Black Rock? maybe actually Jacob or MIB??)... and feels the baby kick again. From that time, Claire was infected, and something happened to Aaron. Something helped the baby to be ok or could Aaron have also been infected like Sayid? Or maybe Claire's biggest sacrifice was taking on the "infection" herself to sacrifice to protect Aaron? Aaron represents something HUGE in this episode and series and everything about the island can be somehow linked and explained through his existence. Maybe that's why Jacob made it explicit that Aaron should not be on the return flight when Oceanic 6 returned?? Because Aaron's entire existence is different than it was during the original flight when Claire was pregnant with him?

I agree that the Island is a mirror somehow, like other posters have mentioned. Jacob and MIB are the embodiment of that mirror, actually manifestations of the same person. Not good or evil, just two parts of same being, both trapped. That's why neither can kill the other, but have to find "loopholes," like Christian, John Locke, Alex, etc. But the loophole has to be dead in order to act on either one's behalf? Claire never actually dies, so she is utimately just infected...and maybe there is hope for her.

The mirror Jack looks into on the plane and then has a recollection, the mirror Kate looks into after having her handcuffs cut, and remembers somehow, and of course the Looking Glass episode. Maybe the water on island is the mirror? Most characters have 2 distinct personalities that emerge- mirror images of themselves as island people or now part of the sideways timeline??

When they acknowledge this, when Jacob and MIB somehow reconcile, will be the end, or beginning?? of the show

@69/berkyo – “I don't understand the writers saying that the two scenarios are just as true as any flashback/forward we have seen. How can they both be true and going on at the same time and not be an alternate reality?”

One possible interpretation …

Been a while since we can bring “real” physics into the discussion, but here’s an example … lots of time travel concepts were examined at length here previously, so not starting down that path again, but just want to hit on one of the outcomes of all those discussions. Look up wiki for “Closed timelike curve” and see how in some time travel scenarios there can be multiple simultaneous worldlines from the same origin, hence “it opens the possibility of a worldline which is not connected to earlier times, and so the existence of events that cannot be traced to an earlier cause.”

If one believes in this version of time travel, then it is possible to have two simultaneous, but different, “worldlines” advancing through time together … hence the “sideways” flashes. For it to appear now on Lost implies TPTB want us to believe that previously there was one worldline looping back onto itself, the skipping-record theory more or less, or WHH. Something changed now though, so the loop has been broken out of, resulting in two separate but simultaneous worldlines. Whether we will see them converge at some point in the season, or have one “win” and the other disappear somehow, remains to be seen.

Personally, I hope nothing of this sort comes to pass. I do not like this approach to the time travel conundrum, as it negates causality, and hence eliminates the significance of free will.

I know someone mentioned this above, but I do not think people have made a big enough deal of it. The ultrasound was the day of the crash and was 30 days after the original plane took off. 10-22-04! That is a serious clue for the future.

I trust TBTB and am going with the 2 timelines. They have a plan and we will be satisfied.

We have to remember that the island/someone on it influences events and can even keep you from killing yourself. Course correcting etc. The "unbelieveable" events are likely "influenced" so they work out so well.

Great stuff folks. My $0.02...

There seemed to be a big deal about the credit card Claire gave Kate. I'm thinking it'll come back into play. I wonder if the number on the card was/is 4080 1501 6023 0420 or something like that?

With Juliet, she lay in the same pocket of energy that Desmond was in when he blew the hatch, and the others were right there too. It took Desmond back to relive his past and then gave him future flashes. Juliet had some kind of experience related to coffee and then "knew" another outcome. Same effect? Somehow causes the same effect on the other losties?

The bomb was supposed to be powerful enough to neutralize the exotic matter. Did it blow hole in spacetime?

#18 Skipper, #87 gg, #102 Deb et al re: "Aaron" - I only watched once last night, but wasn't it Ethan who actually said the name Aaron first? Then after he left, Claire and Kate discussed the name. I also thought Ethan said Claire was at 36 weeks. Maybe it's just another number; but numbers are usually important in LOST. And I wondered, too, how we know for sure it's a boy. Erin is also a girl's name. And this was a sideways event, after all.

Did anyone else out there graduate from Lost University? (Season 5 blu ray and www.lostuniversity.org)

I learned a lot and even bought the LU sweatshirt and coffee mug! Graduation is Thursday night - whatever that means!

Also have to give a shout out to www.theackattack.net as the funniest LOST review out there. Learned about it a year or so ago from this site.

Juliet's sister was played by Calamity Jane from Deadwood. I think her name was Robin Wiegert.

My feeling was that Miles could "get" nothing from Dead Sayid, which to me meant that Sayid was merely dead, not really and sincerely dead. In contrast to his "getting" something from Juliet, who seems to be getting a lot of facetime in the promos for V

@104

I agree. Somehow the past was changed by a month So there is a month gap that may have been thrown off by the bomb.

Were we told that it was September 22 when the sideways flight was landing, or did we assume that and the TPTB needed a way to show us that it is actually October 22?

Did anyone catch that the lady who was backed out of the adoption of Aaron was Juiliet's sister? I may be wrong.

#98. Posted by: Chris at February 10, 2010 2:49 PM
***

That was my immediate thought when I saw her at the door. She favored Juliette (didn't think it WAS Juliette) and she didn't look like Juliette's sister (with the chemo scarf) but it looked a lot more like Juliette than the chemo scarf sister. Anyway, maybe she was supposed to look like Jules to throw in a red herring.

...and for the record, (sorry ILBLXX and MAC) I like both Kate and Jack, even though I rolled my eyes when she took the (stolen and identified) cab back to the airport (where she was being hunted) where she found Claire (who appeared to be the only passenger in the entire airport who didn't score a ride home and was sitting at the bus stop right where Kate could see her immediately from the street)...I mean, seriously, how long was Claire waiting for the bus when Kate had the time to find a chop shop, get out of the handcuffs, find the orca instead of clothes to change into and drive all the way back??? What, do they have only 1 bus in that city? I'm just saying...

- I watched this episode from a Daddy Issue Ripple Effect pov - Kate, Sawyer, Jack & Claire's actions & reactions all had roots in issues with their fathers, IMHO. Even to the adoptive father of Aaron bugging out and exploding Claire's future path. Much better for me than the Chick Flick vs. Adventure/Suspense Flick pov many of y'all seemed to have chosen.

@Mac, @34 Vikki, @37 Crispy Seaplanes - Watched this episode online and had to stop & rewatch/relisten at beginning of Sawyer & crew trekking into jungle - I never do that! That swoosh-replacing noise is eerily similar to the Smokey ratcheting noise. Methinks it's foreshadowing the significance of Smokey in this final season's climax and denouement.

@11 Mizzed - Did you ghost write this episode, or what? You and Darlton & the boys are at least drinking the same flavor Kool-Aid - excellent info/theories!

@28 davidrh, @46 Clementine, et al. - I anticipate these "vague recollection" moments to be a consistent plot device through the early episodes this season. Get used to it.

@37 Crispy Seaplanes by way of @25 HearTheEcko's friend - Yes, The Force is with us.

@42 welh - More informed illumination as to the exact flavor of that Kool-Aid.

@45 matts, @68 FenwayBen, @71 & @90 LockeBox, @94 welh - I've come to think of Smokey as some sort of primordial element or force, at least as relates to the island. It has always been there, perhaps "calling" people there (seems most true in Locke's case.)I like the conjectures that it can "infect" those weakened or wounded physically (Ben, Locke, Sayid), emotionally (Claire), spiritually (Eko) or karmicly (Christian). Probably Jacob & MIB/Esau, maybe Richard and others fit in there somewhere, too. Once infected you have some degree of control over Smokey; Smokey may or may not have control over you. Jacob seemed to be the most experienced in controlling Smokey. It seems Dogen & the Templetons fear the lack of control now that Jacob's dead more than the control MIB/Esau could have.
It's possible that Smokey is Yin to the island's electromagnetic Yang.
- Weigh in, people -

@68 FenwayBen = Smote, brutha!

@95 ChadWick - ROFL!

-When they first showed the temple with the people milling around in front, the first thing I thought was ...oompah, loompahs!!
- Does Jack know that Claire is his sister?
- Do we know that Rousseau is dead? The men from the temple said that she had died years ago.
- The whole submerging the almost-dead Sayid into the temple hot tub reminded me of "Pet Semetary" where they buried the dead and they were re-born only the soil had become "sour" and they came back evil.
- When they said that Sayid was infected, I remembered "The Green Mile" where the old man was said to be 'infected with life' by his lady-friend. (Any Steven King fans out there who can agree?)
- I also agree with #75 and #65 that Miles seems to know that Sayid is not really dead. He has a strange look to him when appears to try to "read" him.

I hate it when they deliberately stall and give you tiny bits of info, without revealing or explaining anything major. I feel like Ben, following Jacob patiently for years without knowing what's really going on. The Kate/Claire stuff was fine, as were the temple scenes. But I really could have used one dramatic MIB a.o. Jacob/Locke/Alpert/Ben-scene. Can't wait till next week, Locke-centric episodes are the best!

And what's with all the different ways to die and come back?

-Christian, died off Island, then... I don't know what happened and what he is now.
-It's different with Locke. He also died off Island, but he was somehow copied by MIB
-Sayid and Claire died on Island and came back to life. Sayid by drowning in a spring with muddy water. Now he is 'infected', whatever that means. Claire was also infected. But apparently not by the muddy pool, or at least Dogen doesn't know about it.
-Jacob presumably died on the Island. Now he exists as an apparition, but not everyone can see him, or so he says.
-Horace died on the Island and came back to chop some wood and talk to Locke (or his image was used by someone/thing else ofcourse)
-Alex dies and comes back as an incarnation of Smokey
-Libby, Charley, Ana and others died on-Island and came back as apparitions off-Island (or their images were being used)
-Others die but don't come back at all
(froghurt)

And that's just one of a gazillion aspects of this story that totally confuse me. There cannot be one solution/answer to the mysteries of Lost, there are just too many questions.

Btw, maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but is Froghurt the annoying orange from Youtube?

Hey apple! :P

@102 - great post! Very interesting.

@114. erinb: yes, jack knows that Claire is his sister. Her mother told him at Christian Shepherd's "funeral" after the Oceacnic 6 returned. And yes, we know Rousseau is dead, we saw her shot and then Sawyer and Miles found her (barely) buried body. That was 2004, or three years ago in Island time.

One thing that I don't think has been discussed is the signifiacance of Jack having to give "Sayid" the pill. They could have poisoned him in a myriad of ways if they wanted to. Why did Jack have to do it???

@118/coolass - "One thing that I don't think has been discussed is the signifiacance of Jack having to give Sayid the pill. They could have poisoned him in a myriad of ways if they wanted to. Why did Jack have to do it???"

Seriously, a bullet could've done the job if they really truly just wanted him dead, right? Why mess with the ridiculous poison pill?

@ 118 - Coolass
"One thing that I don't think has been discussed is the signifiacance of Jack having to give "Sayid" the pill. They could have poisoned him in a myriad of ways if they wanted to. Why did Jack have to do it???"

I thought they said that he had to take the pill of his own free-will, and Jack had a better chance of getting him to take it.

@ welh #94..."I think that since the Island is a spiritual place, elements such as free will and faith have more power than in a material world. A person who is in a weakened spiritual state would be in greater danger of being infected by then consumed by the dark side."

I like it. Everyone who has come back in a ghosty form was having some type of "spiritual" crisis or loss of faith. Great theory!

I agree that Jack has made his "progress" when he asked how can he trust Dogen when he can't trust himself. Jack is getting redemption and becoming "unbroken". I love his character this year (I ignore the breathing).

@120. steve: That's what they said. We have no idea why that is the case.

a scene we would like to see --- Rabbi Dogen running thru the jungle screaming like a little girl..... as Vincent runs him down to rip out his throat.

Just a thought. We all assume the island time line is 2007. Didn't the Aria flight flash from night to day after Jack and crew were sent to 1977? This means they could be in any time after the hatch explosion.

I have never understood how critical people get about the choices the creators of Lost make. Its their show folks. Part of the greatness of the show is what we don't know. How can people be so critical about something they don't know? None of us knows what is going to happen yet so many seem to know what's wrong about certain characters behavior. Pontificating about what makes sense and what doesn't. Personally I feel so lucky to have found this needle in a haystack on television that it doesn't occur to me not to like something that happens on it. Brilliance is so rare on TV I cannot concern myself with how it misbehaves from time to time.

Monster 34 @126 I agree totally, It so rare that I find a show I don't know the ending halfway through that I am excited before each ep.
No matter what happens I will always treasure this ride.
That said: Jack and Sawyer will replace Jacob and MIB as the islands rivals through time.

i just watched the new episode,
i wasn't very enthusiastic when i heard this would be yet another kate centric one,
kate episodes are like waiting for a bus-one will come soon,
the focus on her charecter has been good in some parts & mediocre in others,
i agree with macs comments at the start of his review,
i dont look forward to these kate episodes,
lets have a frogurt centric episode (just messin)
we all need to find out about the man in chains (richard alpert)
NOW THAT WOULD BE AN EPISODE!!

Totally random question...

My Aunt and I regroup every Wednesday morning over Dharma French Roast to discuss the previous episode...

Does anybody know whos Penny's MOTHER?? Thanks for taking the time to think about it...and thanks,in advance, to anyone who may respond.

Checking to see

I can't confirm this on IMDB yet, but I'm pretty sure the guy who cut Kate's handcuffs off is Mike, the guy from the weed-growing agrarian society Locke belonged to.

@ Confused 125: last season the text over said "30 years earlier" when it cut from Ajira to Dharma - in the episode proper, not just as part of the enhanced episodes. So it's official.

P.S. The date on the ultrasound machine has to be right. When they crashed in the pilot, Claire told Jack she was 8 mos pregnant, which is 32 weeks. Ethan told her she was at 36 weeks, which would put it a month later. Good thinking, writers!

@128. Posted by: san
.....lets have a frogurt centric episode...

Lets! --- as long as we don't see him and Artz getting recruited off-island --- touched by the spirit of Mr. Friendly --- at a West Hollywood bar.

(ehh.... maybe in the LOST spin-off series in 2011)

@126/Monster 34 - Okay, indulge me for a moment, and consider the following ever-so-slight reword:
>>>
I have never understood how critical people get about the choices the creators of laws make. Its their show folks. Part of the greatness of the government is what we don't know. How can people be so critical about something they don't know? None of us knows what is going to happen yet so many seem to know what's wrong about certain legislators' behavior. Pontificating about what makes sense and what doesn't. Personally I feel so lucky to have found this needle in a haystack on democracy that it doesn't occur to me not to like something that happens on it. Brilliance is so rare in government I cannot concern myself with how it misbehaves from time to time.
>>>
Just doesn't taste right on the tongue (as Dogen might opine), does it?
In both cases, it really is NOT "their show," it's ours ... without reelection the govt goes away, and without ratings so does the TV show.
In both cases, doing what we expect, well, will earn positive feedback, but surprising us with unexpected brilliance will earn devotion, and association with terms such as "greatness."
In both cases, we can be critical of how things are being run, even if we don't have ALL the deep intel they do on the inside from day to day.
In both cases, knowledge of what's going to happen isn't necessary to differentiate a turd from a diamond.
In both cases, "pontificating" about what makes sense and what doesn't, isn't ... it's a matter of opinion, and God help us all if voicing opinions about such things is no longer allowed, or even simply discouraged.
In both cases, we can feel both proud and lucky with regard to our circumstances, and still find room for improvement.
In both cases, true brilliance is rare, and should be cherished when we're favored with its presence, yet not immune to reprimand for misbehavior.
Finally, in both cases, past brilliance is not a guarantee of future performance, and to grant a pass based upon that assumption is pure folly.

Hey, you stated your opinion, and I just stated mine. Apples and oranges are irrelevant to this discussion ... JMHO.

This episode sucked ...

If MIB has been appearing as various dead people etc... just wondering if Jacob might have appeared as Vincent. That dog always seemed like more than a dog...

@ealgumby #135

"past brilliance is not a guarantee of future performance, and to grant a pass based upon that assumption is pure folly"

For now I am going to chose to be a woman of faith. I am going to tell myself that Darlton would not lead us astray after we have committed so much time to this journey. It will end well, it Will end well, it WILL end well - come on, say it with me every one.

Consider Doc Jensen's perspective...

"Lost has a habit of following up its premiere extravaganzas with scaled-down follow-ups that seek to ground the audience and orient them to a more deliberate pace to the season. ''What Kate Does'' conformed to the mold, and I'm going to hazard a guess and say that not everyone here appreciated that choice, especially those who came to the final season expecting Lost to be all We've Got A Lot To Do And Not Much Time To Do It So Let's Just Rip Into This! Nope. Apparently, Lost has decided to ring itself out by continuing to do ''What Lost Does.'' Which has always been a pretty good thing, in my book, even if means so-so second episodes."

I chose faith!

Oh, crap. That should read - I choose faith. UGH! My brain is clouded by snow!!

Has anyone thought about how much the translator, Lennon, looks like John Lennon?

J.

@124/SnidleyW - What do you mean by "Rabbi" Dogen?

#140. Posted by: hurling
What do you mean by "Rabbi"..?
- - - - -
Rabbi --- the guy in charge of temple. At least that is what we call the guy in charge of the temple I go to.

{:~)

One sure way to measure the impact of an episode . .

Last weeks postings literally continued until air time of the new episode.

This week: 36 hours after endtime we already have a seven hour lull in postings.

So . . what's new with everyone? Wanna complain about the new FaceBook look? Anybody buy a iPad? Broccoli prices up at your local grocery? . .

anything?

Well, better luck next week. There HAS to be a reason for this weeks episode. Except for Jack's tats, there's always been SOMETHING special about each episode.

Jack's tattoos...hmmm...asian characters...Dogen is Asian...maybe he has matching tats? They could still tie this in!
And while their at it Dogen could be related to Miles and Dr. Chang or to Jin (since everything Asian on this show must be related in some way right?)
Being facetious of course...:)
Is it next Tuesday yet????????

Not soon enough, CS, not soon enough!

...oh and Sawyer broke my heart when he tossed that teeny tiny diamond ring into the sea. Was that a Dharma Blood Diamond? I wanted to start singing Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On". I mean, why not, if we're tossin' jewelry into the sea and stuff.
#20. Posted by: Skipper at February 10, 2010 6:43 AM

hahahhaha, skipper - you're so funny!! Leo DeCaprio's character on Titanic was named "jack" after-all - coincidence? AND kate winslet's character was named Rose. :P

I think Claire has been "infected" by dead Rousseau. I think dead people on the island become pawns of the major players on the island MIB/Jacob - who else?

So Sayyid is probably 'somebody' and Claire is 'somebody'.

The alternate timeline representing the non-crashed people seems to show where people's lives were destined to cross. They were going to cross somewhere - the crash forced one set of paths, but the non-crash and the bomb years before it set off another set of paths, with very similar intersections in the paths.

So a person has to go from Point A to Point B, and meet another person at Point B, but how they get there can be different in each timeline.

Choice is part of the equation, but so is destiny, which seems inescapable.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but this is not the first time Sayid has been electroshocked while on the island. When Rousseau captured him back in season 1 she tied him to a bed frame and proceeded zapped him with a car battery(I think). Is there a connection between what she and Dogen did? Could she have been doing her own diagnosis? I can't go back and watch the episode right now so I don't if she explains *why* she zaps Sayid.

Rousseau being dead years ago? When they found the traps and Aldo called it Rousseau's trap the black guy says that it can't be because Rousseau died years ago, but that's not true. She died the same year. If these guys are so in tune with the island how come they don't know that? Something odd about that. Was Rousseau a ghost as well?

What about Sawyers ring being under the floor boards for 30 years. I presume he hid it there in the 70's and when they foomed into current time that it remained there, right under the boards. Why of all places would he hide it there?

Sayid is acting weird o' rama. He is not Sayid at all. He is acting like Wheelchair Locke. Maybe Locke figured a way to claim a body while on the island.

Hi....I´m a Lost Vet... Yuo guys angals have apretty neat all-together storyline almost finished...let me say my last theorie...
The end...all the oceanics originals,back in the "new" 2004,Knows actually what happen in the other timeline... so they now regroup themselves and help the originals to free from the evilforces...at the end of course we can see couples diddimilar,like a sawyer original with a new julit, a New jack with his former ex wife (he is the lover back in the pre 2004 original timeline) an so one...so..how bout that?

EXACTLY!

If dead people can infect dead bodies then maybe Sayid is infected with Juliet...Then Sawyer finds out the love of his life is inside the body of an Iraqi torturer...omg my brain is whacked out today!
And boy if the two timelines could intersect and we could have the alternate versions of each character meet and we could have two Jack's breathing all over everybody and two Kates and I don't know if there's room on the screen for two Hurleys and...okay I'm stopping now!

@149- Danielle died before they moved the island 3 years ago…So it has been 3 years since she died…Aldo also told the other guy to shut up when he was talking about Rousseau because he was about to say that the trap was set by Claire

I was thinking that the sickness that Sayid has is related to what happened to Danielle’s team…Maybe Danielle had it backwards and she was the one infected? Maybe Robert needed to kill her? Montand went into the temple and was killed by smokie but we don’t know that the rest of the team was infected

#151. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man

lOL

#102. Posted by: deb
The mirror Jack looks into on the plane and then has a recollection, the mirror Kate looks into after having her handcuffs cut, and remembers somehow, and of course the Looking Glass episode. Maybe the water on island is the mirror?

I had not noticed all the mirror scenes. You may be onto something.

I think a Temporary split in time that heals again sounds reasonable. The one month difference in the two scenarios (which I did not notice either)is probably important and may have to do with that. Maybe they have one month to course correct. But I'll have to think on that for a bit.

Flockey = Flocke/smokey

@37 Glad i wasn't the only one with the SW:ESB references in mind. they were exact.

Yes, dogen will absolutely explain that the baseball is from Red Sox 1st world series title. Maybe Dogen is really Byun Hun Kim, he disappeared off the face of the earth

I think the purpose of this episode was to show us that in the alt timeline, our Losties have changed, perhaps as a result of their experience on the island (which they don't remember per se but which has nevertheless influenced them). So Kate "became good" on the island, and whereas the thing she did in "What Kate Did" was to bring death, what she does in "What Kate Does" is help bring life.

Otherwise, I agree that her going back to retrieve Claire was not a believable plot development whatsoever (and made me very ankh-ry).

MIB says he just wants to "go home." Maybe home for MIB is Earth, humanity, mortality. The Fall. MIB just wants to go home and be human. Home for Jacob is the island, immortality. Jacob represents the Island, the Garden of Eden. The struggle for either MIB or Jacob to prevail is the premise of the show Lost and life. And it "only ends once."

Humans, on the Black Rock, accidentally discovered the Island years ago and have been traveling back and forth ever since through the choices they make-- either by wanting to stay there or not. "They come, they destroy, they corrupt," etc. But babies have a Tabula Rosa so to speak, so in order for MIB or Jacob to conquer the other, they have to start all over in a baby with new life choices. They've been waiting for the right moment forever.

I have a feeling Aaron #1 (original 2004 Timeline) is Jacob. Aaron #2 (sideways 2004 Timeline) is MIB. Or something like that. That's the "loophole." Not Locke. After all, locke is the lock, but what's the key that opens it all?? Aaron.

Obviously its just me but I found Dr Goodspeed/Ethan really creepy and fishy. I felt like Kate (who I really didnt think I could despise more- this ep proved me wrong) was looking at him suspiciously as well. I was weirded out by his convo with Claire so much I was surprised when I read Macs review saying he was nice.

I was thinking of Rousseau torturing Sayid as well-- but I didnt think about that she was testing him too- good connection.

The whole alternate timeline thing keeps making me more solid in my personal belief that all things happen for a reason and if I controlled everything based on my willfullness then it would not turn out for me nearly as beautifully as if I accept my path. They tried to "correct" having crashed (so short sighted) so in the other reality they didnt crash but life isnt really better for any of them. Trust the process of life.

LOL @ Crispy
Josh Holloway may be a good actor but I just can't see him gazing into Sayid's eyes.

@158. stuckinthesnow: Life is better in the new time line for Boone, Arzt, Frogurt, Scott/Steve, Nikki and Paulo, and probably for Hurley, Claire, and Sayid!

If the date really is October and not a typo, what airline would have let Claire get on board that close to her due date?!?

El- I see hwat you mean. I guess with regard to Claire I was thinking that in order for her to "keep" Aaron (like the seer told her to) thee man left his wife in order for the adoption to go thru. In my head Sawyer is going to con Hurley (based on his convo on the airplane. IT will be different at least. Fair? (PS- I guess I dont care about Paulo and Nikki- and Boone couldnt "save" ..whatsername (sorry new baby, snowed in for eons). Sayid.... meh. Im just throwing out things.....

One thing that is nagging me is how familiar the smoke monster (aka MIB) is with the outer structure of the temple. He drug Montand down into the temple wall…and he confronted/judged Ben in the hidden chamber, just below the temple wall, in what looked to be his own lair. However, just like the rest of the temple, this hidden chamber (home lair for the smoke monster) would have had to have been made by the Others. And in fact, according to Rousseau and Robert, the smoke monster was once considered the guardian of the island/temple. But the temple is supposed to the refuge of Jacobites. To add to the confusion, we also know that as late as 2004, Ben, then leader of the Others, was able to summon Smokey for protection by draining a small pool beneath the barracks. However, now in 2007 after hearing of Jacob’s death, the Others seem to be afraid of him.

So there seems to be a past relationship between both the MIB/Smokey and Others that we are not aware of yet. Theories anyone? We desperately need a Richard centric episode.

Ultrasound date.

Could it just be that the October 22, 2004 date is Claire's due date?

Dr. Goodspeed said she was 36 weeks along. Due dates are based on 40 weeks, so 4 weeks prior to Oct 22 would roughly be Sept 22. Could mean the flights are on the same day...

@GFish- good thinking- but there are no other dates on the screen...?

@124, 141 SnidleyW - Oy! I thought of Dogen as rabbi/Jewish for the way he expertly used Guilt-As-Motivation on Jack in the Heimlich scene.

@162 bizarro workman - I think the Templetons've got their panties in a wad more over the loss of protection from Smokey that Jacob had apparently long afforded them - see my rudimentary theorizing @113.
And yes, we do need a Guyliner-centric episode. Darlton & Co could hook up with Revlon as the exclusive sponsor!

also the time--9:29:42AM is right above the date as the time and date the ulrasound is being done.

If Said and Claire have been infected/claimed, whatever, by folks like Rousseauand other familiar cast members, than what exactly was MIB's loophole about?
If it was just about claiming dead Locke and convincing Ben to kill Jacob, wouldn't MIB (and Jacob) have thought of that possibility sooner?
Or was it just impossible to find a human that could be persuaded to even attempt killing Jacob, before Benjamin?

About the ashes:

- Why did the Others not put a huge circle of ash around the Temple before? Why wait until there's an emergency?
- Wouldn't it be easy for MIB to convince or force a human, on the out- or even inside, to break the ash circle for him?

@#150 about lostees meeting and helping their doubles
That would be somewhat awesome, but it doesn't feel right to me. Not like that, anyway. I would enjoy it if at some point someone does meet their future/past/sideways self, though.

Or maybe the separate timeline people do find out about their doubles and it turns out that they have actually influenced past events in our familiar timeline, stuff that happened to people in the first few seasons (like visions, whispers, etc)

Ep 3 kind of sucked, but I understand the mechanics of this show, how it likes to unfold it's story, and have been addicted to it for years.
I am pretty sure that I will have mixed feelings when this show is over. Not because the ending won't be amazing. I am convinced that it will. It's because it can never be as amazing as I want it to be.
Avidly following Lost is in a way like dating a girl for 4 years before even reaching third base. By now, I expect this to be the best p***y ever!

@robinpiney

i think it was established a few seasons ago that maybelline should be the official sponser because their black eyeliner is the absolute best!!!

trust me :)

@167, mischa WOW!!!....I too hope you are satisfied to your satifaction when the series ends. ;)

ok....I am calling my shot for the final scene of the series. Somehow Juliet's final words: "want to get some coffee, we can go dutch" will be front and center. I am guessing Sawyer and Juliet somehow meet up again in the future/past. Sawyer somehow retains his memory of Juliet, but she does not.

Does anyone else think Sayid's accent has changed? He doesn't sound nearly as Middle Eastern as he used to.

@169
Yeah, I'm at least expecting major fireworks, trumpets and choirs :)

But, so what is the ash made of?

Also, who is Christian really? He took Claire with him, but left Aaron to eventually be taken away from the Island. He claimed to speak for Jacob, told Locke to leave, told Jack to come back to the Island. There have been hints that he ís or is with Smokey, bur if he is Smokey aka MIB, why did he appear to Sun and Frank, while at the same time being with Ben, disguised as Locke. We did see Smokey split itself up before (I think), but it doesn't really make sense. He could be Jacob, I guess.

#150

Son of Laffo Returns.

I have been following this posting for quite a while and very rarely post anything to it myself. But, since this is a fairly slow one, do you mind if I back track and ask a question that has bugged me forever??

If Bernard was in the restroom when 815 crashed, why was he strapped into a seat in that tree?

In depth analysis from Vozzek69

http://bit.ly/bEpnkW

@174 tesla
Was Bernard (the Tallie) the one in the tree in the seat??

@174. tesla: The explanation I remember is he was on his way back from the restroom and took a free seat in the back to buckle up during the turbulence...

Google me this Batman?

"lostpedia bernard tree"

(had the answer in 1.24 seconds)

Hey ya'll glad to see someone still cries MIF!!! LOL

I have lots of ideas, but I really just wanted to stop in and say hi to long ignored friends. Way too busy to comment, but I'll be back. Still an avid watcher!!!

O.K., so everyone is tired of talking about this lackluster episode so I have a suggestion for a game we could play. Everyone pick a category, list your choice and explain why...

Favorite/Least Favorite Character

Favorite Quote

Favorite Scene

My Ultimate Lost Ending in 100 Words Or Less

Now to ponder my own choices...

Once it was revealed that Smokey=MIB=Flocke, I went back to my rewatch notes to try and understand his after-crash role. Since it's slow here, a History of Smokey since the crash, part 1:

Day 1 and 2: Smokey haunts the edges of the beach, makes a lot of noise, and generally frightens the bejeezus out of the Oceanic survivors. Oh, and in between, he embarks on a little R'n'R to kill the Oceanic pilot.

half-baked theory: have yet to hear a truly plausible theory around the killing of the pilot. Since lapidus was originally supposed to be at the controls, was he actually trying to take out Frank?

As for the beach antics, Smokey never got this close to the beach again. In later episodes, the beach goes from a highly scary place to Club Med II.

It's also interesting that the tailies were 100% Smokey-free. So what if Smokey was 'scanning' the Beach survivors thoughts, looking for a suitable candidate for the loophole?

Day 5: After several days of sitting on the beach in a virtually meditative state, Locke leads Kate and Michael on a boar hunt. Smokey travels past Michael and Kate and zooms right in on his target, Locke.

Initially, Locke denies seeing anything to Michael. The next day, however, Locke admits to Jack "he looked into the eye of the island and it was beautiful".

After this experience, Locke is overnight transformed into Obi-Locke, man of faith and defender of the island.

Day 6: Jack sees Christian on the beach and chases him into the jungle, where he promptly falls right off a cliff (bad Smokey!). Smokey mechanical sounds are heard during the chase. Fortunately, Locke is there to save the day.

That night, Christian leads Jack to the caves, the empty coffin, and the Adam and Eve skeletons holding the black and white stones.

Day 15: Claire has the Aaron gone/crib full of blood dream, and sees a demonic Locke playing backgammon. Foreshadowing!

Day 16: While supposedly chasing Ethan and Claire, Locke splits off the rescue mission. When Boone asks Locke where they're going, Locke says he's can feel "it". They immediately find the hatch.

more to come....

@167/Mischa - "Wouldn't it be easy for MIB to convince or force a human, on the out- or even inside, to break the ash circle for him?"

Why even bother with that? We saw Smokey knock Bram out of the ring ... so why not just throw a big rock at it and disturb it that way? Why not, what are the rules? It's okay for Smokey to throw a rock at someone in the ring to knock him out, but not at the ring itself? How about knocking a tree trunk down over the ring ... is it still intact if partially concealed? Can Smokey then drag the trunk back, and break the ring that way? If not, then why not? How about a big wind storm, which it seems likely Smokey could swirl up, to blow at least some of the ash away? Why are these obvious solutions to the dreaded ring problem not allowed?

Part of me wants an explanation, but after seeing the whole Kate/Claire debacle, I'm terrified of how lame it could end up ...

so maybe it's better just left as one of those "doesn't make any damned sense" mysteries, rather than completely ruined by an even sillier attempt to explain it.

GRAA Mac!

I'm a bit late to the party, so I should catch up on some posts first, but I'd like to say your last line "or maybe it's 43 minutes in a casket" cracked me up.

@141/SnidleyW
Oh, gotcha. I'm not Reform, I always say "shul." Or synagogue, but that takes too long to type. ;) (not actually sure what I am, but we like Reconstructionist or Conservative egalitarian services)

#180. Posted by: Mizzed

I, too, think that Locke was MIB long before it was confirmed to the viewers.

I mentioned this in a post over the summer, but I'll say it again now; During my re-watch of season 1 I noticed that Locke started out with green eyes and then at some point they changed to light blue. With "eyes" being such a reoccuring theme I thought it might mean something - maybe the eyes changed color when MIB first took over Locke's body?

@171/shannon - I noticed, and I also noticed his whiny tone & wondered if it's because he's not Sayid anymore.

@ealgumby #135
Are you seriously suggesting that the government and a silly tv show should be held to the same standards? That is...what is the word I am searching for here...oh, that is dumb. It is a tv show. It is not important.
I was only saying that in such a sprawling story some parts are more interesting than others. No big deal. To nit-pick seems to be short sighted that's all. If I am dying of thirst in the desert and someone offers me water I am going to drink it not criticize the giver for it being tap water instead of bottled water. I am going to drink it and be grateful because I may never see anything like it again.
Lost is not your show. You may like it a lot but you have contributed nothing to its creation.
The government IS yours and therefore you have an obligation to be critical of it.

@186/monster

No, I was not suggesting they be held to the same standards, hence the apples/oranges comment, which I obviously made because I correctly anticipated you'd misconstrue my intent. I also did not say YOUR opinion was dumb, simply that criticism of the show did not justify criticism itself. Now that I see how disagreeing with you is dumb, I would feel more enlightened already, if I were not so thick. ;)

#186 / #187:

Boys boys! Let's play nice. I don't want to have to call your mothers! . .

So who wants ice cream?

:-)

I was clicking around the Lostpedia sight yesterday and happened on Kate's time capsule. The screencap of the contents featured a baseball. It looked a lot like Dogen's. They may not be the same one, since Kate's had some signatures on it, and I didn't see any on Dogen's, except for a small mark on an edge, which could be a partial signature. Chances are it's not the same one, but it was an interesting discovery.

TPTB have been so vehement in their rejection of the "alternative reality" theory for season 6 that I am reluctantly trying to view the LA-X scenes as part of the existing island reality.

The only way I see to reconcile this is a scenario where the remaining survivors on the island complete their purpose in the Jacob-Smokey battle, probably through some super burrito combo of sacrifice, death and redemption.

Once the mission is accomplished, they are essentially reborn or rebooted back to the Oceanic airline, where they can live out their modified and improved storylines.

Since they share this connection of their earlier passages through the island, their new, off-island lives will slowly converge as well, sometimes in ways that will stretch the boundaries of normal believability (see: Claire, Kate and a taxi cab).

In other words, in the Lost timeline, the LA-X scenes represent the final chapter. D&C have never allowed themselves to get pinned down about the science fiction and mythology of the Lost series, much to the chagrin of a lot of Lost viewers.

Instead, they regularly describe the show as a character driven story arc about broken people who must work towards peace and redemption in their lives.

I can see how all that hangs together. I can also see how many Lost fans may find that unsatisfying.

If alternate reality is not an option, is there another explanation I've missed?

What if the loophole Jacob describes is not specifically MIB taking the form of Locke....but rather by MIB taking the form of Locke, he can now influence the one man/mortal that would have reason to kill Jacob (since he/MIB technically can't) based on his past confusion and frustration about his relationship with said Jacob....Ben!

That's more loopholey than the plain obvious....YES, I've figured everything out!!

Had a thought that I just can't shake. Maybe some of you who are smarter than I - and there are so many of you - can find the flaw in my thinking.

It smells to me like TPTB are laying the groundwork to get all of our Losties headed back to Australia.

Jack’s father’s body missing, Locke’s knives gone AWOL, Jin (and Sun) maybe getting deported, Hurley’s Aussie chicken empire (wasn’t he on his phone with somebody discussing a troubled Aussie franchise?), Kate and Claire maybe taking Aaron down under, Sawyer dogging Hurley’s millions…

It’s like there could be some wormhole or time portal or something that they need to go through to connect up with their “split” selves.

IITY?

why was claire even at the bus stop? how was she going to pay for her bus ticket without her purse/money? wouldn't it make more sense for her to catch another cab and hope that Aaron's new parents would pay for the cab upon her arrival. I mean, she doesn't even know her way around LA, how did she even know what bus to take? And let's say she does get dropped off at a bus station near brentwood, then what? walk around until she finds the address on that piece of paper? doesn't it make more sense to just get into a new cab and give him the address and a COD payment? I mean, not calling the police is one thing - i can excise one stupid thing per scene, but not like 7 stupid things in a row!!

i can EXCUSE one stupid thing per scene, but not like 7 stupid things in a row!!

oops, typo above....

#179 Lost2theworld-
O.K., so everyone is tired of talking about this lackluster episode so I have a suggestion for a game we could play. Everyone pick a category, list your choice and explain why...

Least favorite: Keamy- he's a smirk-jerk

Most favorite: Miles- I just like him

quote: "He's Korean, I'm from Encino"

(_see why I like him? Also, he's apparently Norwasian.)

sCENE: Just when Hurley starts to jump the cliff, Libby lets him know she likes him, then the picnic. (more than one scene-sorry)

LOST ending 100 or less:

...and then Smokey gets more and more condensed, gets smaller and smaller, the dolphin clicks turn into rattles, he turns into a rattlesnake, gets back to the Garden of Eden with Rose and Bernard and we all start over again!

or not.....

I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooo bored!!!!! Damn you TPTB!! How dare you throw another giant middle finger at us....DAMN YOU ALL TO HELLLLLLLLL!!

@RNM: bored? With the possibilities of wild speculative endings to infinity and beyond?? For example, we find out that balloonist Henry Gale is actually grown up Walt.

I think all of the characters, Jack, Locke, Sayid, Kate, Ben, Sun, Jin, Sawyer, the others, Rousseau etc. ALL of them were on the island since the very beginning--in some form but maybe not as they appear now. They go through cycles of living and dying off the island without any memory of being there until Jacob finally awakens something deep inside them when he touches them. Thus creating a sense of need to get back to the island. Maybe they begin to recognize a connection with each "island" person they encounter and once all the right people are in place on the island a showdown will finally take place and MIB guy can get the Flocke outta there!!!

What is the relationship between Ben and smokey? Ben summoned smokey once. Ben as seen smokey many times, yet FLOCKE felt the urge to apologize to Ben that he had to see him that way. But he's seem him that way many times. Are there two smokeys? Maybe they don't put ash everywhere because good smokey is needed at the temple where they need to keep out bad smokey but the ash may affect them both.
I still can't wait to see if Locke takes Jack up on the offer to check his spine. I wonder what he'd fine.

Also wouldn't Vincent be on the plane? OR at least in an animal cargo hold?

Something about Smokey and the ash really bothers me. Isn't smoke something that rises out of the ashes? If it can pick up a rock to knock someone out of an ash circle why can't it just jump over it. For crying out loud it is smoke--it's doesn't have to touch the ground.

another thing...Has anyone really pondered the meaning of what Flocke said to the group outside the foot of the statue when he left? Something about being very disappointed in them. That stays in the back of my mind and makes me wonder if he's a good guy. Also, why hit Richard in the throat? Is that his way of keeping him from talking? Is he worried that Richard will help or corrupt the people by what he says?? So many questions...so few episodes left to find the answers!!!

GRAA, mac.

I have read the first 102 comments. I apologize if this has been stated.

Rousseau electrocuted Sayid in the first season. I assume she was doing the same test that Dogan was performing. Sayid passed the first test, but not the second. What was different, what was the same? Sayid was clean then, but not now. I agree that Miles has noticed a difference. Good catch.

#180. Posted by: Mizzed
When Boone asks Locke where they're going, Locke says he's can feel "it". They immediately find the hatch.

A few people have been referring to season one and trying to fit MIB and Jacob in the picture. Can we trust that TPTB had any idea of this whole thing? like showing he was somebody else by changing his eye color? Didn't they expect the show to get dropped early on?

In spite of that, Why would MIB or Jacob want Locke to find the hatch? or if Locke is already Flocke why would he have so much trouble getting in? wouldn't he know where the other door was? Why is Desmond special? Is Faraday still alive? How about Charlie? and Eko and Libby? and the people from the tail end? If Rousseau was infected why would she be electrically testing Sayid for whatever.Wouldn't she be able to tell who was on whose (Is that spelled right?) side? And most important, what am I going to make for dinner?

Anybody read Doc Jenson? There is a lot of stuff there.

@me #179 OK, I'll play my own game...

Favorite Lost Chacter - BENJAMIN LINUS!

What other character has had such a huge evolution? Ben went from sad, verbally abused little boy, to pawn of the others, to daddy killer, to Undercover Henry Gale, to evil bug-eyed Ben, to ass-kicking/leather wearing/manipulative Ben, to sniveling "what the hell just happend" Ben following Flocke like a lost puppy, to stabbing Jacob in the heart Ben. I, personally, bought Michael Emerson playing every single version.

I LOVE BEN with a courtesy nod to super dirty hot Sawyer of course ;-)

Least Favorite Lost Character - Paulikki

I don't need to explain, do I?

@203
I think Locke may have been influenced by MIB way back then but was not fully taken over until hiss body returned to the island on Ajira. It sounds like the infection process takes some time and that it has to reach your heart before the transformation is complete. Even after Locke's body returned to the island he still often acted as if he were not fully MIB yet, often acting like Locke and no tknowing things he should know.
Dont know if TPTB knew that there would be a Jacob or MIB or exactly what was affecting Locke in Season one and I'm not so sure about all the eye color changing stuff whether it was intentional or not. But I would guess that they knew that they would reveal eventually that something was affecting him. they may not have figured out exactly what yet at that time.

#240 continued...

Best Quote

"What? Do I need to make you a mix tape?" - Sawyer to Kate after she turns down his request for some "afternoon delight."

Best Scene

The scene where Ben wakes up in the Hydra Station after the Ajira flight lands with Flocke staring at him. Ben's eyes go all buggy and I believe Flocke just looks at him and says, "Hello Ben." Priceless.

The Ultimate Lost Ending

?!?! I don't know but it better be a good one or I'm sending Darlton my counseling bills.

That stuffed orca affects Kate because it's Aaron's when she's raising him. See season 4, episode 10: Something Nice Back Home. Aaron is holding it when Kate picks him up after her fight with Jack about Sawyer.

i will re-watch this episode tonight,
who knows, maybe second time round i will enjoy it more,
if not, i will put this episode to bed (like the jack tattoo or paulo/nicki episodes)
i cant think of a show where every episode or season went the way i would have liked,
my guess is that evaneline lilly (kate) will be pretty much absent from the next few episodes, as she has featured quite heavily since the start of season 6.
reading through some of the posts some of us may come across as "kate-haters"
NOT THE CASE,
i actually like the character but dont enjoy the amount of time allotted to her storyline.

#200 Mizzed "In other words, in the Lost timeline, the LA-X scenes represent the final chapter."
The significance and creation of the LA-X timeline has been bugging me too and your explanation makes sense (I don’t like it but it makes sense). However, wouldn't this technically be a “flash forward” to our current storyline which according to the audio podcast on 02/04/10 TPTB have stated it is not. I know it’s a matter of semantics but so is them stating that they don’t like the phrase “Alternate” or “Bizarro” because it assumes one timeline is more real than the other. Or do you think TPTB would be fine by saying “flash sideway” because “flash forward” and “flash back” does not refer to our current storyline but rather liner chronology? If so, shouldn’t have all of the ’77 storyline been considered a “flash back”.

Anyway, semantics aside, that's why I like #103 ealgumby's thought of “Closed timelike curve”. But then TPTB still have to show us the significance for this co-existing (I hope they don’t mind that term) time line.

I know we're supposed to be patient but come 'on! We’ve been patient for 5 years! We want to watch episodes that are relevant and significant to our story. Who cares, if in another time line Shannon decided to stay in Australia in her fake abusive relationship!!

Oops typo.. my previous post is in reference to #190 Mizzed not #200.

Why is it so difficult for the losties to believe that there are two Lockes. If The Lockeness Monster (Doc Jensen Reference) infects locke and flashes through time to be present at a time after his own death. Locke specifically avoids himself during the time flashes; he does not head towards the light beam from the hatch. He has Richard tend to his GSW and tell him he had to get ebveryone who left to come back...

There have two Lockes on the island at times before the only difference now is that one of likenesses is dead.

How to explain the fact the the alive lockenessnes knows the other lockenessnes's last thoughts, has really been bothering me. Perhaps another consciousness jump?

ok i just re-watched & enjoyed this episode!!
no smoke monsters or batton of death action but very small pieces of information which could be significant later in this final season.
these writers are smart & know we are smart,
maybe after this whole thing is done,
i will write my own ending & post it,
just for fun.

Long post.

I do not have the knowledge some of you do here and get totally confused on time travel. And now they throw this "flash-sideways" on me.

So from an apparently less educated individual like myself does the following make any sense or am i still totally confused:

I do not think there are specifically two distinct timelines running at the same time here in season six. When the flashbacks were dominant in the first three seasons and then the flashforwards came into play at the end of season three in Jack's famous yell, "We have to go back!", TPTB were showing us only what had happened and what will happen in the current timeline of our losties.
Now, when the bomb was being dropped in '77 our losties were experiencing their present and then apparently foomed to '07, and are still experiencing their present at the temple. I do not believe that their existence split into another timeline or worldline with the result being them on the island in '07 and also on 815 with a successful landing at LA X in the new 2004.
TPTB were only showing us that the alternate or as they call it, the flash sideways timeline that now gave birth in '77 and then up until it landed in LA.

My thought is that the losties that landed safely now in the sideway timeline will begin to somehow remember things (Like the mirror-flashes Jack and Kate are having and Claire calling her child Aaron without any knowledge of why she did) to where they will all decide that they need to go back to the island and their consciouses will converge together with the present bodies in '07.
far fetched but this is what the lesser educated lost fanatic thinks anyway.

my lost series scene finale prediction is (with my crazy theory i spoke of above) will have Jack at the airport and yelling at Kate, "We have to go back!"

@69/berkyo – “I don't understand the writers saying that the two scenarios are just as true as any flashback/forward we have seen. How can they both be true and going on at the same time and not be an alternate reality?”

Maybe the they ARE "just as true" as the flashbacks and flash-forwards we've seen - meaning that they are all not true. Last scene of LOST - Locke comes out of his sweat lodge after drugging himself with that green paste and realizes everything after that was a hallucination! Everyone is back at the beach still and no rescue in sight...WALTTTTTT!

@add it up, #9, no, that was not Lapidus flying alt815. That was Greg Grunberg's voice. He was the pilot in the pilot. Heh. He was Smokey's first victim.

Re-watching the pilot with the data from Season 6 so far makes for a very different viewing experience. Why did Flocke/Smokey attack them right away? Now that we know who he is, and not just a random monster, that poses more questions. Or maybe it's an answer.

I haven't posted in ages, but I've been keeping up. I have this nagging feeling that I should all be able to figure this thing out, but to do so I'd have to turn my home into a scene from A Beautiful Mind. The scraps of paper taped up everywhere would say things like...Jacob asks Illana to help, Illana gets to Sayid and gets him on the plane so he can be shot before she ever meets him. Sayid survives between the two seasons and Jacob gets Hurley to take near death Sayid to the temple. The temple that was at one time known to be Smokey's retreat. Now Sayid is in the temple but somehow changed. Is this exactly what Jacob wanted? And What lies in the shadow of the temple? John Locke's dead body? How did that save them all? And how many things had to happen to John Locke's legs? Falls from a building, trapped under the blast doors, shot in the leg, falls down a well and breaks a leg. And Desmond: why did Daniel tell him he is special and that the rules don't apply to him? It is all right under out noses I tell you!

Also...let's not forget that Locke was "touched" by Jacob long before he ever got to the island. Like the other characters Jacob visited in the past, Locke must be protected by Jacob somehow. Jacob knew all along that he would need John Locke and although Locke at this point appears to be an agent for MIB, perhaps he has been serving the greater purpose for Jacob all along....

That's why it's important to always show us the two Locke bodies, because at one point the real Locke will experience redemption...

@217 Deb -- Why would we assume that it was actually Jacob that touched Locke. Smokie takes shapes, so why not Jacob's shape to hide his own identity. It seams that in a battle of "Black" vs "White", or Destiny vs Free Will, the one who is pushing for destiny will do what they must in order to achieve the desired outcome. The one who is for free will and the natural progression of events would back off and observe. The free will advocate might go as far as to remind the players that they have a choice, but never would they interfere in the natural progress. Just a thought... I still am not convinced that what we see is what reality and it really is not all "Black" & "White".

#217. Posted by: deb

...let's not forget that Locke was "touched" by Jacob long before he ever got to the island.
- - - -
But then again... all of our Losties have time-travelled. Maybe Jacob went back in time and tried to alter his destiny, touching those he believed would add to his advantage (not dying).

I've been trying to connect the dots on how Jacob could have planned his own death (and future redemption) by going off island and helping bring back all those involved. Still some holes, but I'll give it a try. Kate returned to the island and saved Ben (as a kid) so he was able to kill Jacob. Locke manipulated Ben to kill Jacob (though that was really Flocke). On the possible future redemption side, Sayid reprogrammed the nuke and Jack dropped it in the hatch, enabling them to return to the 1970s timeline and bringing Jin along for the ride (he must have SOME role later in the story). Similarly, Sawyer, Sun and Ilana must have some roles in the coming epis. And at the very least, Hurley saved them all from Dogen by carrying the guitar case with the note, but hopefully he'll play a larger role in the endgame and possibly Jacob's redemption.

Dogen hurried put the temple into protection mode when he heard that Jacob was dead. Was he concerned that Jacob was no longer around to keep peace or did he have a reason to think Jacob was dangerous now that he was dead? hmmm.......

@ 218: steve

At each point when Jacob "appears" to the Losties in the past, it is at a crucial time of choice. He never actually changes anything, just acts as an agent of free will, reminding them of the choices they have...never changes the natural progress

But with Locke it is a bit different. I believe that after Locke falls out of the window, he actually dies. So when Jacob "touches" him and says I am sorry you had to go through this, for some reason it is important b/c Locke was actually dead at that point? He knew Locke was going to die and needed to be there at that precise moment.

At the end of last season's final episode, just before Jacob "dies," it's as if he expected it all along. He doesn't seem too worried. With the exception of saying, "they're coming," he willingly lets it happen without much of a fight because he knew it all along.

I don't think the fight is necessarily solely between good and evil, or even at all between good and evil, because I think Jacob and MIB are the same person, just two facets of the same person, who are split in two for some reason for eternity...

See post # 102, 157 above...

Dogen's necklace:

Might it be a whistle...
a sonic whistle...
an anti smokey sonic whistle!!

@222 Deb - I see your point about Locke. But you have to admit that if John Died, then Jacob most absolutely interfered with free will by saving John. He gives the extra little push to coerce the outcome he desires.
Saves John.
Saves Sayid.
Keeps James Obsessing.
Allows Kate to get away with shoplifting thus never paying the price.
and learning the lessons that go with it.
Pushes jack away from facing his imperfection...
IMO I may have gotten the roles confused between Jacob from the beach and MIB. MIB actually goes back into the jungle, and Jacob waits for the Black Rock.
Either way we will learn the trutrh soon.

@233 - mtncbn - Maybee a dog whistle!!

@48 & @49

I will have the milk steak, boiled over-hard, and a side of your finest jelly beans, raw!

How come we don't play "Nightcrawlers" anymore?

@255 - The lady will have the linguine with white clam souse and a coke with no ice...

But WHEN did Jacob touch Losties? Before or after OA815? or another time?

Sawyer, Kate and Jack seem to be before OA815... Locke too?

Sawyer and Kate (kids), Jack (dad alive), Locke (after high fall).

Hurley and Sayid after OA815?

Hurley (nut farm - when?), Sayid (Nadia reunite - pre/post 815)

Jin/Sun? Wedding touch before OA815? or after LA X, where they weren't married?
- - - -
I fully expect to see a flashback Jacob where he is waking-up Desmond in 'The Swan' to tell Des that he slept thru a button pressing shift... don't worry Des - I entered the numbers for ya brutha.

****not really SPOILER, but sort of****

read this on another site:

Because on Claire's ultrasound there was a date: 10/22/04. Some peeps wrote in to Gregg Nations, who keeps track of each and every little crazy detail about the show, and asked if the 10/22/04 was a mistake or a clue. He said it was a bit of both, and in this thread on Lost's creative team's official site, you can all but discern that the date should've been 9/22/04 (the mistake being the "10," and the clue being the "04"). The crew's just human folks -- they can goof up every once in a while just like the rest of us. So moving forward I will be working from the all-but-confirmed assumption that the alternate timeline is taking place in the fall of 2004.

A few people above posted how Kate cried after Sawyer threw the ring into the waters and how they thought she cried because she knew Sawyer loved Juliet and she would never have him. I think she cried because TPTB showed us in this episode the change in Kate. From "what Kate did" to "what Kate does" is a dramatic change of character for her.

Kate went from a ruthless woman to only caring about herself to a woman who cares for others.

She went back for Claire at the bus stop (albeit, highly improbable scenarios as explained above) but she did go back for her.

I believe Kate cried after the ring toss, because she knew she led to the destruction of Sawyer. She NOW doesnt only care about herself.

Was Jacob's official cause of death stabbing or burning? He was still talking when Flocke kicked him into the fire.

Happy Valentines Day Red...Neck...Ma'am!!!

surprised that the taxi driver didn't get a bigger part,
this guy played a character named doyle in season 3 of heroes,
he played the part of a 41 year old loner who had the ability to make people behave like his puppets,
very small part for a guy who can give you the creeps!

PS,
happy valentines day mrs.san

Jacob told Hurley to ask Jin for directions to the place where he met the French team (where Montand lost his arm). Then they all went through that hole in the ground that took them to the tunnels, then eventually into the Temple.

I think Ben did the same thing when he went to be judged by Smokie.

My question is - why didn't they just use the gate/door that Sawyer so casually walked out of when he left the Temple? Kate, Jin, Aldo and Justin all walked right out of the temple with no use of any tunnels. Did Jacob NEED Sayid to go in through the tunnel so that Smokie could attach himself to Sayid? Hm. But why would Jacob be helping Smokie? Why did they use the tunnel instead of the gate/door, dammit??

ack recap is up....

Skipper: Ever notice that when you go to a large mall or such, with multiple entrances, you usually go to the one you know - probably the first one you used. I suspect that is why the folks used the hole in the wall - it was the only one they knew about.

We'll probably never get to see the gates from the outside, but I suspect that they may not be that obvious - probably disguised - to keep traveling salesmen and Jehovah Witnessess from knocking every week . . . And those pesky little girl scouts with their cookie brouchures . . .

#236. Posted by: davidrh

I guess you're right. The 815ers did the same thing with the hatch door. They used the less convenient entrance for the longest time before they realized there was another entrance complete with doorbell and welcome mat just around the corner. :P

I guess these last few days have been so boring that I'm just grasping at anything that might lead to a sliver of an 'ah-ha' moment even if it's just for a few minutes, it gives me hope that this episode was not a complete waste of my time. I need a Lost fix - I need a revelation, something big PLEASE!

Does anyone know how many episodes are in this our last season of LOST???
thanks

I think i read that there would be 16 episodes.

Wanna hear something funny? The night of the season 6 premier, I almost lost track of the time. In a panic, I turned on the t.v. and hollered out loud and to myself, "Oh my god! They're in final jeopardy!"

No new posts since 8:30 this morning. Sooooo depressing!!

John: Surgery isn't gonna do anything to help me, my condition is irreversible.

JACK: Nothing is irreversible.

Sounds like Jack is the man of faith and John is the man of science in the new timeline.

@241: lost2thworld: "No new posts since 8:30 this morning. Sooooo depressing!!"

The number of posts following an episode is an unscientific but pretty accurate way to guage how well an epi engaged everyone's interest.

An off-island Kate story combined with virtually no plot movement on-island equals 100-200 fewer posts than normal and sucks out all of the energy generated from "LA-X".

Good thing tomorrow looks like a Locke/Smokey episode involving Richard and Sawyer...

***** POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT *****

There are reports circulating that one of the Losties is going to have a baby. Smart money is on Sun. I kinda like the longshot on Libby (with Hurley?). Even longer shot would be if they manage to bring Juliet back. I could see her surrogating for her sister. Or Sawyer as a baby daddy. No way it's Kate.

Then there’s Rose and Bernard… that’s a visual I did not need. Now I have to go wash my retinas.

***** END OF POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT *****

The silence here is deafening … so how about a little silliness (?) to fill the void?

Imagine if you will, flashing sideways to a reality in which there has been no dissent whatsoever regarding the content of Lost; instead we all simply rhapsodize over its utter and complete brilliance …

In this bizarro-world of rampant Lost fanaticism, Mac’s blog overflows with a record-setting 1500 entries for this last episode! A sampling …

“Wow! Nikki and Paulo really brought it home tonight! :) I am still in awe over how TPTB skillfully managed to integrate the Lost storyline into the TV blockbuster event of the century … the ‘Jersey Shore’/’Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains’/’Lost’ crossover episode! So it’s been Jeff “Jacob” Probst’s watchful “eye” behind the island mysteries all this time … who woulda thunk it? Brilliant! It all makes sense now … amazing the writers had this all planned since the very beginning, I am SO impressed by how they wove it all together, going back to season one. Never saw the Losties/Tailies/Others story as the Galu/Foa Foa/Aiga deal it really was … b’duh, it’s clear to me now though. Also, having Coach take out Locke after he punched Snooki in the face … just … awesome! At least Shannon was there to talk to her about it over and over; there has never been better use of air time, ten minutes of pure heaven. Although, I didn’t really get it when Michael suddenly came wandering through Tribal Council yelling WAAAALLLT, but I’m sure the producers have a really good reason for that. Did anyone else catch the Sue Hawk homage, when Jenni got all drunk on Dharma beer and said ‘this island is pretty much full of snakes and rats’ … but she said on Tonight Show with Conan last night that it wasn’t scripted though, so I believe her. Anyway, just call me Grampa and send me to a home, because I will continue to drool and soil myself with excitement over this outstanding programming!”

Meanwhile, back in our bleak existence, it’s eleven more hours until potential redemption …

PS: Sorry if I offended anyone with this egregious attempt at satirical hyperbole … okay, I’m not. ;)

re: #245

Yeah, you could even add "Amazing race--The Time Travel Season"!

Whoa, we ARE getting desperate. I can't wait until tonite. Please let their be some good meat to chew on!!!

Hello....anyone here? Did someone move the blog and forget to send me the memo? Did you all timeshift back/sideways to 2004? 2007? Wait, what year are we in now? Oh I forgot, NO ONE'S HERE TO ANSWER!!!!

I still want to know how Flocke knew the real Locke's final thoughts. was this an orchestrated consciousness jump?
Did the statement by Flocke under the staue to Ben "I am sorry you had to see me that way" remind anyone else of Jacob's comment to Locke when he revives him outside the window falling event. he said he was sorry locke had to go through this, or something similar to that?

Another question -- any thoughts anyone...

Why is it significant that Cidy recognizes the loasties from as being on the first plane with her. when she says this it is in a reassuring way that the losties were a not a real threat to them. if so then why would, and I assume the second plane was Ajira Air, have people on it that were a threat. Maybe Illana and Bram pose a threat to the Templetons.

Furthermore, if Illana and Bram + Co. are threats to those at the Temple, perhaps the bodyguards of Jacob are not really the good guys. Perhaps the Jacob they know is not really who he said he was.

So far no response. So I will pile it on deeper.
Someone explain why Zack and Emma seem to be catatonic. There is no life in their eyes, like there was outside the polar bear cages. They simply follow orders to bring in the food, and quietly, and utterly unemotionally, leave. Is this the better life they are supposed to have after being stolen from the beach?

One more thing that sticks in my mind. -- If the temple is a place of healing, why was Montand not healed after his arm gets ripped off? We see his rotted body in the passage under the temple wall.

Also - Why the fireworks and not a flare gun, afterall they temple folks have firearms.

Now I am just going stir crazy!!!!!

Is there anybody out there?

@steve

maybe a flare gun was on richard's "to get" list the next time he went off island. ;->

@tiffani - I like the idea of Richard going off-island with a shopping list.

1. Flare gun for Dogen

2. Replacement first aid kit materials for John Locke/The Other guy.

3. Peanut Butter to use as bait for Claire.

4. Set of jumbo's for Sayid as replacements.

5. Child prodigy to replace current leader in the future.

5. a little cheese to go with Jacks whine.

I like where this could go !!!!

So let's see . . . What are my choices tonight? . . .

Lost.

Ice Dancing.

Cleaning lint from belly button.

Waxing my curling stone.

There's a lot to ponder . . .

not.

@#250. Steve
- If the temple is a place of healing, why was Montand not healed after his arm gets ripped off? We see his rotted body in the passage under the temple wall.
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It is a healing place - IF YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THE POOL. Montand barely made it in the back door. Plus, methinks the pond does not regrow limbs.
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Dogen - about the dirty pool water - "I told you guys to stop washing your socks in here!"

@davidrh

how about LOST with a nice glass of wine and a little snowboarding on the side. :-)

@254 Snidley - You've got a point. Montand was only dragged in so far. I just thought that if smokie was going to go through the trouble of draggin' him in, smokie would have tried to preserve him to use him for something. Then again, maybe smokie only dragged him in in order to lure the others down the rabbit hole.

@248. Scott: I pondered that, too, and concluded that DeadLocke "copied" Locke's body once it arrived on the Island, including the state of his brain at the time of death.

Of course, there would be decay, and what about whether short-term memories and thoughts make it into long-term memory while you're being asphyxiated, etc., but it seems like DeadLocke is superimposed on dead Locke.

how about LOST with a nice glass of wine and a little snowboarding on the side. :-)
#255. Posted by: tiffani

Half of that sounds like a winner!

Cheers, my dear!

@#256: steve
...if smokie was going to go through the trouble of draggin' him in, smokie would have tried to preserve him to use him for something. Then again, maybe smokie only dragged him in in order to lure the others down the rabbit hole.
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Concur. Particularly the "lure" possibility. Maybe Smokey has different modes, or there is more than one. Smokey was referred to as "Cerberus" early in the series... a three headed dog that guards the "Gates to Hades" - maybe the temple guard dog just bit the first Frenchie he could find.
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Does, Mib + lOCKe +smoKEY = MOCKEY

(mock) "The Substitute" --- MOCKE-Centric

Would you watch LOST Winter Olympics, drh?

Strength Event: Frozen Donkey Wheel Push. Total spins in thirty seconds.

Races: Polar Bear Sledding. Like the Iditarod dog sled, but they hang Charlotte on a stick in front of the bear, like a carrot to a horse.

I read somewhere, Here? I did not see a discussion, or else I missed it. Could be.
If the Left behind Losties Foomed out of time on the day that the island blew up and the O6 began their time back home (Jan 2005) and then came back to the island on the Ajira flight,(2007)and some of them foomed to the seventies, and then the bomb blew up as they all foomed to the present catching up with the ones on Ajira who did not foom - Big Breath - Isn't there a chunk of time missing that The foomers did not live through? Is that allowed? Can you check out of time and back in with a hole in the Space time thingee? Maybe the foomers have to live time - until 2007 in a limbo land that has a mixture of both their island lives and home lives? maybe I have this all mixed up.

And tonight it's spaghetti.

i hope we get some answers in the next episode,
i want to know what frank may be a candidate for,
i want to know when & by whom sayid was claimed,
but most of all i want to know if dogen's sidekick lennon knows the words to imagine?

I want to know if when Dogen blows his little dog whistle, Vincent comes running.

@263/steve - "I want to know if when Dogen blows his little dog whistle, Vincent comes running."

Didn't know Dogen had a little dog, let alone named Whistle. ;)

#264. ealgumby:

Naughty naughty! But I have to know...is Whistle a dachshund? And if yes, is he a dufensmertz (sp) or a wienerschneitzel (sp again)? ; >