The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Substitute"

Season 6, Episode 4
Episode Air Date: 02/16/10

Point 1

Locke Sawyer

Remember when Locke and Sawyer tag-teamed on Cooper? They were an odd couple, to be sure, but dammit, those guys got stuff done. Men of action! Men of conviction!

And yet, strangling Cooper in the bowels of the Black Rock was but a mere prelude to what Sawyer and the artist formerly known as Locke may truly accomplish. Their latest partnership (or new partnership, if you want to get technical about it) appears to revolve around two of the sixth season's biggest questions: Why does Flocke/Smokey/Man in Black want to get off the island? And related to that, how will he get off the island?

After this latest episode, we still don't know the why, but I'm guessing the how involves assistance from a scraggly-haired grieving con-man who really, truly, couldn't give a damn about anything at this point. (Except his whiskey. He does love his whiskey.)

In addition to this unusual new partnership, we also learn a few important details about Flocke himself (the usual disclaimers about distrust of dubious characters applies to what follows ... caveat emptor and all that):

-- Flocke claims to have been "trapped" for a very long time. Who trapped him hasn't been clarified. The likely suspect is Jacob, but there may be a higher power at play as well. More on that in a moment.

-- The Man in Black / Smokey used to take on multiple forms (Christian Shephard, Yemi, etc.), but Ilana reveals he's now stuck in Locke's body. How she knows this is beyond me.

-- Flocke found the Jacob administration's policy of non-disclosure quite silly. He's flabbergasted to learn that Richard really had no idea why Jacob did the things he did.

-- Flocke says he was once a man who felt joy, fear, anger, betrayal, loss, sunburn, spider bites, mild nausea after consuming dairy ... all that fun human stuff. But seeing as he can now dent bullets and take the form of a smoke pillar, I'm guessing he's traded all that complicated emotion for something more fundamental: revenge. Whether that revenge is justified is another matter.

-- He's occasionally visited by a pre-teen blond-haired boy who likes to flash his blood-stained hands. This boy -- who just has to be some type of Jacob apparition -- reminds Flocke about the "rules," specifically the one that forbids killing "him." Don't you just love it when tween ghost boys use open-ended phrasing? We have no idea what governing body sets these rules (that's the higher power I was alluding to a moment ago). Nor do we know who the "him" in question is here. It could be Sawyer. That would seem reasonable. But it could also be Richard ... or Jack, Jin, Sayid, Hurley, Miles, Frank, Ben, Lennon, Dogen or any other living or sorta-living island male. (Note: Sawyer sees the blond boy, too. This doesn't seem like Hurley/dead people redux.)

-- Flocke has access to a secluded beachside cave that he once timeshared with Jacob. They chose a Spartan aesthetic for the place: a simple scale -- one side holding a black rock, the other a white -- was once the foyer's most dominant element. But Flocke never cared much for that white rock. Down the hall, a little to the right, you'll find a dark study where Jacob (allegedly) wrote castaway names and numbers on the walls. Most of the names are crossed out, but Flocke points out a few that are still in play: Reyes, 8; Ford, 15; Jarrah, 16; Kwon, 42; Shephard, 23.

Let's spend a moment on this cave business. Besides being the most TiVo-worthy moment since Radzinksy's map was uncovered, it also plugs into the series' long-percolating destiny vs. free will motif. If Flocke is to be believed, Jacob has for centuries -- millennia perhaps -- manipulated the life choices of potential "candidates" so they'll come to the island and someday take over Jacob's role as island protector. We saw hints of this in the season five finale (we also saw oddly overt flashbacks to those same moments in this episode -- anyone else find that jarring?).

So the cave stuff filled my head with a bunch of questions. In no particular order:

  • Jacob seemed content with his position -- smug even -- so why bother looking for a replacement? Is that part of the job description? "Must train successor"?
  • I didn't see Kate's name on the wall and it's unclear if "Kwon" refers to Sun or Jin. All the other names were men. Is the island exhibiting a little male chauvinism here? As eagle-eyed commenter Mizzed notes in comment #14 below, the wall includes the names Burke (Juliet), Rousseau (Danielle) and Littleton (Claire). I offer my sincere apologies to the island. Clearly, it's an equal opportunity life destroyer.
  • Flocke raises a good point: What, exactly, was Jacob protecting the island from?

Update 2/17/10 Lost-Media has a bunch of high-resolution screencaps showing the cave walls.

There's lots more to consider with this Flocke/cave business, but let's move on for now.

Point 2

Locke

In this episode's alternate timeline scenes, John Locke loses his job but finds a more suitable one as a substitute teacher (with assists from Rose and Hurley); he finds a potential friend in fellow teacher Benjamin Linus (a European History instructor ... of course); he's engaged to Helen; and, best of all, he finally admits there are things he can't do, and maybe, just maybe, that's okay.

It's such an interesting shift for this character. The John Locke we've known for years needed external validation. He needed someone else -- or something else -- to deem him special. But the alt-timeline version of Locke seems to find the peace Original Locke never could. And he does it quietly, by just letting go.

Granted, a peaceful resolution doesn't make for high drama, but I wonder if the writers will use the same driving question -- What would happen if these people weren't crazyballs? -- to explore characters in the alt timeline.

One other thing from the alt universe: Oceanic found Locke's missing knives. I really thought certain props would be plucked from the alt timeline and used as breadcrumbs back to the original timeline. So much for that idea.

Point 3

Ilana Ben Sun Frank

The assorted characters who spent the last four episodes milling about the statue have now scattered to the winds. Most are headed for the temple. Ilana, Ben, Sun and Frank are going that way, too, but first they have to bury Locke in the Oceanic castaways' cemetery. There isn't a whole lot of action in this storyline, but we do see Ilana scoop and save a handful of ash from Jacob's extinguished fire. Jacob's remains are supposedly mixed in with that ash, so I wonder if it'll later reappear as some sort of super-repellant in a future run-in with Smokey.

These scenes are also interesting because Ben freely (and awkwardly) admits to killing Locke but he lies to Ilana about Jacob's murder. Good to see Mr. Linus is in fine duplicitous form.

Point 4

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "Well I guess I better put some pants on." -- Sawyer to Flocke.
  • Second Best Line: "This is the weirdest damn funeral I've ever been to." -- Frank, muttering to himself after Ben's awkward eulogy/confession.
  • Third Best Line: "Randy Nations ... that guy is a huge douche." -- Hurley to Locke.
  • Sun and Jin are never going to reunite. I'm convinced of it now. Ilana tells Sun that Jin -- if he's alive -- will be hiding out at the temple. But as we know from last week, Jin is now in Claire's clutches. These two are doomed to wander the island and miss each other by mere seconds over and over again.
  • The producers have noted a number of times that season six will be a bookend to season one. So far, it's more like a mirror. The first four episodes of season one went like this: pilot 1 & 2 (all characters, but most of the focus on Jack), "Tabula Rasa" (Kate-centric), "Walkabout" (Locke-centric). Compare that to season six: "LA X" 1 & 2 (all characters, but most of the focus on Jack), "What Kate Does" (Kate-centric), "The Substitute" (Locke-centric). And it looks like the pattern will hold next week: season one, episode five ("White Rabbit") was Jack-centric; season six, episode five also appears to be Jack-centric.

That's all I've got!

Next Episode:

"Lighthouse" -- We take another dip into Jack's on-island angst and alt-timelline adventures. Airs Tuesday, Feb. 23, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

MIF!

#1. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 12:14 AM

MIS!

#2. Posted by: meg at February 17, 2010 12:15 AM

shikotee is third! ;)

#3. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 12:17 AM

Here are some random observations:

3PCI068 - Locke's Cali licence plate. Any meaning?

Locke in tub, comparing the light and dark fabric! LoL!!!

Helen mentions to skip the big wedding, and just invite her folks, and Locke's dad. So - One would assume that he was not the one responsible for Locke's leg injury?

Smokey P.O.V. shots were awesome! Loved it when you could see smokey's reflection off the window of Sawyer + Juliet's house in Dharmaville - with "Search and Destroy" by Iggy Pop and the Stooges playing in the background (during this scene, and when he returns to visit Sawyer in the house).

Good choice of song for Sawyer's state of mind. Check out the lyrics:

"I'm a street walking cheetah
with a hide full of napalm
I'm a runaway son of the nuclear A-bomb
I am a world's forgotten boy
The one who searches and destroys
Honey gotta help me please
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby detonates for me
Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology !
Ain't got time to make no apology
Soul radiation in the dead of night
Love in the middle of a fire fight
Honey gotta strike me blind
Somebody gotta save my soul
Baby penetrates my mind
And I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
And honey I'm the world's forgotten boy
The one who's searchin', searchin' to destroy
Forgotten boy, forgotten boy
Forgotten boy said
hey forgotten boy"

#4. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 12:27 AM

I found Ben's admission to killing Locke oddly compelling. He seemed to truly express remorse for something. He's seemed sorry for things such as his daughter's death, but to hear him actually come out and say it seemed to be growth for him.

What made John qualified to teach? Does he have a degree in education?

If the black rock on the scale seemingly represented MIB then why does it seem that Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island?

Are the names on the wall the source of the lists? Does assigning numbers to the names indicate that the characters are components of the Valenzetti equation?

So much to think about here. much better than last week...

#5. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 17, 2010 12:29 AM

Great review again Mac, you've done great in helping nerds like myself find something else to satisfy our lost addictions in the space between episodes.

I'm still not convinced that Flocke is the man in black. But my only basis for that is the interview with the producers on Jimmy Kimmell after the first episode of this season aired. I guess I will have to wait and find out.

I really hope Sawyer somehow sticks around to save everyone, I never bought that crap about him being a coward when he jumped from the heli, pure heroics and selflessness is what I saw.

Until next week...

#6. Posted by: csmithfdub at February 17, 2010 12:30 AM

The number for Kwon is 42. =)

#7. Posted by: Silhouette at February 17, 2010 12:31 AM

@Mac
0============

>-- The Man in Black / Smokey used to take on multiple forms (Christian Shephard, Yemi, etc.), but Ilana reveals he's now stuck in Locke's body. How she knows this is beyond me.

Not too sure about this. We saw him as Smokey tonight, or, at least, from his viewpoint as Smokey. So why couldn't he turn in to others also?

0============

>There's lots more to consider with this Flocke/cave business, but let's move on for now.

What I'm wondering is - how is Sawyer getting back out of there, given that the rope-ladder broke? Will Flocke have to change into Smokey and carry him?

0============

>Third Best Line: "Randy Nations ... that guy is a huge douche." -- Hurley to Locke.

Especially funny when you realize it's probably a shout-out to production staffer Greg Nations.

0============

>Sun and Jin are never going to reunite.

I absolutely, positivily guarantee they reunite. If fact, we've already seen it (he said mysteriously.)

0============

#8. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 12:34 AM

Scooping the ash: Pouring ash around the cabin, in the jungle -- Jacob has died and been burned before? The kid is a reincarnation.

#9. Posted by: Will at February 17, 2010 12:35 AM

Scooping the ash: Pouring ash around the cabin, in the jungle -- Jacob has died and been burned before? The kid is a reincarnation.

#10. Posted by: Will at February 17, 2010 12:35 AM

4-8-15-16-23-42

No mention of the numbers revealed?

4Locke-8Reyes-15Ford-16Jarrah-23Sheppard-42Kwon!

And these names are definitely on the list that was in Hurley's guitar.

#11. Posted by: KD at February 17, 2010 12:45 AM

Yes, Mac, those were all funny lines, but I'm still LMFAO at giving a eulogy for someone & closing with "and I'm very sorry I murdered him." That is just standalone hysterical.

#12. Posted by: hurling at February 17, 2010 12:55 AM

Sun and Jin will reunite in the last episode and we will all cry like babies!

Compare and contrast: Radzinski telling Desmond that he was grooming him to replace him (so he could leave the island) and Jacob grooming replacements (for leaving the island)?

Could they have never aired last week's Kate episode and we would have been just as far along in the story?

Now we finally know that Hurley did own Locke's box company.

Maybe Ilana is going to use the Hottub to bring Jacob back? Or just needs a bag of ash in case Smokey returns?

#13. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at February 17, 2010 12:56 AM

First, still not seeing anything inconsistent with the theory of the island as a tropical purgatory gameboard between life/light (Jacob) and death/dark (Smokey), where the characters are the gamepieces and the fate of the island is literally (per the scales in the caves) in the balance.

I've also suggested before that Smokey is "pinned" or trapped to the island itself- he can't get high enough off the ground to go over the barrack sonic fence or go through the water in the underground caves. For the second time this season, Smokey has talked of being "trapped" and wanting to escape.

But the big reveal this episode is the explanation of the numbers, a true high-def frame by frame DVR moment. Here's what I've gathered:

First, according to the numbering, there are over 300 names on the ceiling. Included are members of the 1954 US Army (Mattingly, Cunningham, and Jones), the Rousseau science team (Lacombe and Rousseau), the Others (Juliet Burke, Pickett), the freighter team (Faraday, Charlotte Lewis) and the Dharma initiative (Goodspeed, Straume- presumably meaning Dr. Chang?)

The names include both men and women, all called to the island by Jacob. I'm guessing that pre-island Jacob touched all of these candidates, not just the ones we've seen. The act of touching is the physical manifestation of Jacob's tapestry- weaving the destiny of the selected individuals.

The names include unfamiliar names- both Spanish (Almieda, Bargas, Kalin, Costa, Domingo) and English (Goldstein, O'Toole, Reynolds, Petersen, Grant, Martin).

Crossed out Oceanic names included Rutherford, Pace, Carlyle, Troupe, Sullivan- and Littleton. Sorry, Claire, I guess you really are one of the undead.

If Sawyer was paying more attention, he would have noticed that Smokey deliberately omitted the emotional zing of Kate's name/number when convincing him to play ball for the other team.

He also missed his recently lost love Burke- and the major clue that the only way that pieces come off the board (i.e., get crossed off) is death.

Going way back to post-season 1 and the Lost Experience, the numbers were developed as the Valenzetti equation and the start of the Dharma project: mathematical variables necessary to stop the end of the world (Faraday to Jack: "we're the variables").

Hurley won the lottery with those numbers but felt cursed. A good metaphor for the last six survivors- the final selected ping pong balls out of hundreds of other candidates, but cursed to go round and round the island merry-go-round until when?

#14. Posted by: Mizzed at February 17, 2010 12:58 AM

-Numbers are the Numbers, so who is 4 (and why are the Oceanic people that important that their numbers are used so much)
-I am guessing that the cabin had some type of locked in affect for Flocke and Jacob wasn't in it ("Help Me" said by Flocke), someone broke seal and Ilana upset. Yes smokey was active but hadn't since Richard in a long time, the Others were more or less free of it and Ben seemed to control it to some level (thus Flocke was controlled by being in the cabin with the ash around it, Jacob didn't need it cause of the "rules")
-kid is not Jacob (Aaron?), perhaps one of them (Flocke and Jacob), Angels or aliens, who knows
-getting bored with second timeline, they need to start giving more answers

#15. Posted by: Stock at February 17, 2010 12:59 AM

My only question is... why in the season finale of season 2 Hurley was not on the list of the others and had to go back... What is his role in the story now that he is written on the wall?

#16. Posted by: Bushhound2 at February 17, 2010 1:05 AM

It was Kelvin not Radzinski making Desmond take his place

#17. Posted by: Stock at February 17, 2010 1:06 AM

Mac, great review as always.

Mizzed, that's good stuff. Thanks for the analysis.

Thanks to all the blog contributors. This blog adds a lot to the lost experience IMHO.

#18. Posted by: D Cyprian at February 17, 2010 1:13 AM

Great ep!!!

My theory on the show, after seeing this episode... and I know will likely be contradicted a thousand times before the end - and may even not jive with some things we've seen - goes like this:

Flocke/MIB/Smoke Monster represents some sort of incarnation of the Devil, who has been banished to the Island. I get this when Flocke tells Sawyer, "I was a man once too" - or something to that effect.. Knowing the ties to Christianity, the Devil was a "man" once - or a fallen angel, turned to the dark side.
So the Smoke Monster Man is banished to his Island prison where he can not leave, and can not return home. He is kept in line by Jacob, et all. But now he wants to go home.

But what happens when/if he gets home? My theory is that he will bring about nothing less than the end of the world. The religious apocalypse that has been hinted at throughout the series

We already know that the numbers were tied to some sort of 'world saving formula' - and that each of the characters (minus Kate???) are assigned these numbers, based on what is written in Jacob's cave. Because these people are the specific formula who have the ability to save the world - but only if they go to the island and that things happen the way they are "supposed to". This makes sense why these numbers are so important to the island, because these numbers do, inevitably save the world. Unless Flocke gets his way, and wins this war. Then the world goes bye-bye.

I think the thoughts are a lot clearer in my head, but does this make sense to anyone? Anyone care to expand?

#19. Posted by: vintage at February 17, 2010 1:15 AM

Answers!!! =]

#20. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 17, 2010 1:16 AM

Long time reader, first time poster. This was SO much better than last week.
RE: Post # 8, when we saw the reflection of Smokey in the window of Sawyer's Dharma duplex, it looked white to me. So, that would not have been Flocke, but rather the white smoke that Locke encountered early on?

I could be wrong. It's happened before.
Linda

#21. Posted by: linda hardman at February 17, 2010 1:17 AM

The most believable lie is one that contains a fragment of truth. Maybe Flocke was being honest...and the island DOESNT need protecting (from outsiders). Maybe it was protecting everyone outside from Smokey/MIB/Flocke. A jail, as it were.

#22. Posted by: Wyatt at February 17, 2010 1:18 AM

More observations:

You know things are weird when the guy who freaks people out with visions of dead people is seemingly freaked out by a vision of young boy (Jacob?).

Best line - Sawyer: I don't give a damn if you're dead - or time traveling, or the ghost of christmas past - all i care about is this whiskey. So bottom's up... and get the hell out of my house!

Loved how Flocke and Sawyer lie to each other. Sawyer about talking to Richard, and Flocke about talking to the kid. They both know they are lying, and leave it at that.

Before smokey was "trapped", he was a man, just like Sawyer.

The Ben eulogy was awesome! Love it when Frank delivers his observations...

"Don't tell me what I can't do" - Interesting that Flocke shouts this out to the young boy, while flash sideways Locke perspective has changed after talking to Rose. He recalls shouting at the people who denied his walkabout, but now accepts that they were right.

#23. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 1:21 AM

All I want to know is this... How the heck does Locke drive? If he can't walk and is stuck in a wheelchair, how'd he just whip home from the airport, and get back and forth to work? Is there something about driving while handicapped that I just don't know of?

#24. Posted by: Steve at February 17, 2010 1:30 AM

Also love the "Inside Joke" line as Flocke throws the white stone away...

#25. Posted by: Steve at February 17, 2010 1:33 AM

Flocke surpised that Sawyer could see the boy (young Jacob likely) while Richard didn't. Didn't Sawyer also see Kate's horse in season 1 and Kate was surprised he could see it too? Interesting if true.

#26. Posted by: Beth at February 17, 2010 1:35 AM

It is definitely a different /alternative universe or God know what cause even though paths cross and our islanders mingle and know each other somehow in this ATL (alternative time line)everything about them is different, their personalities, their perspectives in life, etc... Ben a schoiol teacher? Ethan a nice Dr.? Obviously the writers have something surprising in mind, could it be two different endings???

#27. Posted by: mapache at February 17, 2010 1:39 AM

@5. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes

I think many will agree that this was much better than last week!
Good old Ben! Admits that he murdered Locke (awesome the way he did it), but still lies about how Jacob died. I would not like to play poker against this man!

@11. Posted by: KD

Looking forward to the HD folks that will analyze the cave footage.

@14. Posted by: Mizzed

3 posts later, and the analysis is already in the works! Good stuff!

@16. Posted by: Bushhound2

I too started to think about Jacob and his lists. On hydra island, didn't some Others also say someone else was not on the list? Who was it?

@22. Posted by: Wyatt

The island as a jail seems plausible. Looking forward to when we find out why/how Jacob was able to leave/return.

@24. Posted by: Steve

There are custom cars whose acceleration and brakes are controlled by hand.

#28. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 1:48 AM

Wow, what an episode! The alternate world finally interested me with a fantastic Locke story that had the same themes with a different veneer. Fake Locke was manipulating Sawyer back on the island, and we finally learned what the numbers are for—as long as we believe Fake Locke.

Review of the episode on my blog:
http://th3tvobsessed.blogspot.com/2010/02/review-lost-season-6-episode-4.html

#29. Posted by: TV Obsessed. at February 17, 2010 2:00 AM

Interesting to note that while discussing wedding plans, Helen suggests they just invite her parents and Locke's dad. Does this mean Papa Locke isn't a kidney-thieving conman in this alternate reality?

If that's the case, then there's no father/son conflict of the I'm-going-to-push-you-out-a-window-thus-breaking-your-spine variety. And if THAT'S the case, how did Locke end up in the wheelchair??

#30. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 3:01 AM

Great Review!

Just a quick observation: Darlton announced (recently on Jimmy Kimmel) that the finale is set to air on May 23. Could that 23 be a reference to Jack?

#31. Posted by: Omom at February 17, 2010 4:44 AM

Great Review!

Just a quick observation: Darlton announced (recently on Jimmy Kimmel) that the finale is set to air on May 23. Could that 23 be a reference to Jack?

#32. Posted by: Omom at February 17, 2010 4:45 AM

Observation: Helen said that the wedding was in October, this confirms that Claire's ultra sound we saw last week had a mistaken date of 10/22/04 (production error - which is what I suspected). The events we watched last night (Locke losing his job, Hugo talking to him, Rose giving him a job, etc.) happened sometime between 9/22/04 and 9/30/04.

Observation: did you notice Helen's shirt? Peace & Karma

Opinion: Jacob is the little boy we see. Arron is only 3 years old, so it's not him. Plus Aaron is in LA with his granny.

#33. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 4:55 AM

#5. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
What made John qualified to teach? Does he have a degree in education?
You don’t need a teaching degree to sub. Only need a Bachelor’s degree in any field. Interesting that he ended up being a “substitute”, the title of the episode. Who is the substitute on the island?

#9. Posted by: Will
Scooping the ash: Pouring ash around the cabin, in the jungle -- Jacob has died and been burned before? The kid is a reincarnation.
If Jacob is going to be reincarnated each time he dies, then why does he need a successor? There were plenty of child emperors and kings in history. Plus, if Jacob is just going to end up reincarnated, why did MIB even bother to go to allllll this trouble (FDW, Ben, Locke, etc. etc. all that he had to do…) to kill him?


#24. Posted by: Steve
All I want to know is this... How the heck does Locke drive? If he can't walk and is stuck in a wheelchair, how'd he just whip home from the airport, and get back and forth to work? Is there something about driving while handicapped that I just don't know of?
they make modified cars for handicapped people. Yes, they can drive.

#34. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 5:02 AM

I don't think Flocke is satan, because of the reference to 'I was once a man'. Satan was an angel, not a man.

And...
Well, of course there are all manners of lesser imps and demons, Pete, but the great Satan himself is red, scaly, has a bifurcated tail and he carries a hayfork.

#35. Posted by: SnakeJake at February 17, 2010 6:08 AM

I don't think Flocke is satan, because of the reference to 'I was once a man'. Satan was an angel, not a man.

And...
Well, of course there are all manners of lesser imps and demons, Pete, but the great Satan himself is red, scaly, has a bifurcated tail and he carries a hayfork.

#36. Posted by: SnakeJake at February 17, 2010 6:09 AM

Was Sawyer ever in charge of entering the numbers at the hatch? I don't remember any scene of him doing it, but if he did, then he will probably make the connection between the numbers in the screen with the numbers in the cave.

If Hurley sees the cave, he will think those names are "bad luck".

#37. Posted by: phg at February 17, 2010 6:37 AM

Is it me, or did this episode raise new questions about the entire alt timeline. Not only do we (presumably) not know how Locke ended up in a wheelchair, but there seem to be changes in events we have seen in previous seasons' flashbacks, notably that Locke and Helen have not broken up. And when Kate asks Claire last week, "Would you believe me if I said I was innocent," who knows, maybe someone else killed her stepdad and she has been falsely accused.

Also, interesting to see how many times the Losties (plus Ben and Ethan) are crossing paths in the alt timeline. Are we going to see them reunite on Flocke Airways Flight 2342?

#38. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 17, 2010 6:46 AM

If Hurley sees the cave, he will think those names are "bad luck".
#37. Posted by: phg

Would love to see Hurley climb down that ladder.

#39. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 6:52 AM

I wonder if Flock is going to convince Sawyer to turn the FDW?! How are they gonna get out of that cave? more tunnels? When they were walking, I thought Sawyer was going to kill Flock just like Des killed Kelvin. It really reminded me of that scene.

#40. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 6:55 AM

Water, Earth, Wind and Fire; classic elements.

The simplest essential parts and principles of which anything consists or upon which the constitution and fundamental powers of anything are based. they are important elements Japanese, Buddhist, Chinese, Hindu, Greek, etc. teachings.

If the Ice tea Jacuzzi is linked to Jacob, then maybe he's in charge of all water, even the sea. which is why MIB can't just swim or sail off the island. He's also in charge of wind - keeping MIB low to the ground and unable to fly over the sonic fence or to another island for that matter. Direction of the wind also brought the black rock to the island and was responsible for the turbulence that crashed flight 815.

MIB might be in charge of Fire, since he takes the form of smoke. And he also gets to be in charge of Earth since he lives/travels through tunnels.

why would they split up the elements between the two? no idea - unless they were once the same person and got separated.

#41. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 7:08 AM

To clarify my own comment @38, what I'm suggesting is the alt timeline started much much earlier than flight 815 -- days, months, years, decades, who knows? And that calls into question whether a lot of the flashbacks we've seen did occur in the alt timeline.

No Shannon on 815 pretty much proves that the alt timeline started before 815. Hurley being successful means he didn't experience all that bad luck in the time period (months?) before going to Australia (and why did he go to Australia in the first place -- to buy the term "outback"?)

Oh, and one small thing: Helen is dead, or at least Abaddon "revealed" to Locke that Helen had died earlier in 2004.

#42. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 17, 2010 7:23 AM

The differences in the alt timeline have to be because the island was destroyed and Jacob haas not come to touch each of them and push them toward coming to the island. So many of the major events in their lives are different becaause Jacob was not there influencing them.

#43. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 17, 2010 7:27 AM

I thought it interesting that Jack was number 23. Psalm 23 begins with "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want". I looked at Psalms 4, 8, 15, 16 and 42 as well and there may be some connections with everyone else too. Psalm 4 seems to reflect Locke as it starts with a plea "Answer me when I call to you, O my righteous God. Give me relief from my distress; be merciful to me and hear my prayer." Locke was always looking for answers. Coincidence?

#44. Posted by: Tim at February 17, 2010 7:40 AM

Does Flocke/Smokey's comment about being trapped refer to him being physically attached to the island and thus needing to be unattached before he can leave, either by FDW or Sub or by traveling at a compass bearing of 325? (Side note: Why has Walt fallen so far off the radar?!) Perhaps he will become untrapped if he is able to manipulate Sawyer to take over as his successor. (Don't worry, though. I'm sure James is planning a long con on Flocke.)

#45. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 17, 2010 7:48 AM

I didn't understand a darn thing last night, but I sure enjoyed watching it!

You folks have a good time! Thanks for the recap Mac.

(I sure hope Meg and Cecil can get along from now on . . . It must be Olympic fever that has them staying up late, racing for first place and the "____ is first" Gold Medal!)

So what is the national anthem of the island?

#46. Posted by: davidrh at February 17, 2010 8:01 AM

Was smokey taking the form of Christian Shepard? -- Not sure on this one. I think that he was "infected" like Claire and the Reasseau team and working with the MIB.

Did it seem that in the Smokey perspective that he was able to hop between different locations, at on point zooming around the jungle then popping into Dharmaville?

#47. Posted by: Theoldred29 at February 17, 2010 8:20 AM

As always...thanks for a great review Mac!!

#6. Posted by: csmithfdub I'm still not convinced that Flocke is the man in black.

I'm pretty certain Flocke is the MIB based primarily on what I thought was the best line last night when Flocke threw the white stone on the scale into the ocean and replied to Sawyer about that being an "inside joke". I laughed out loud!!!!

#15. Posted by: Stock

I also thought that the mysterious boy in the jungle could be Aaron. (Remember how big Walt looked when John Locke met him on the street corner...?)

Only 3 episodes into this season, I really wished I had done what I wanted to do prior to the beginning of Season 6...and that was to watch all the episodes again starting with Season 1.

Also, found interesting, when watching the enhanced episode of "What Kate Does", one of Locke's "bubbles" referenced back to Locke and Walt's backgammon game and the comparison of the "white and black" side. Tying it all back together...

Another observation for the "sideways" alt timeline. Seems as if there are some who's lives are slightly different/better than before they crashed. Hurley is not cursed and very successful having invested his lottery winnings in different businesses and endevours. Locke lives with and is engaged to Helen (although still in a wheelchair) and has come to terms with his injury. Rose comes to terms with her cancer and instead of searching for that miracle, is content with making the most of the time she has. Boone has no problems with leaving Shannon in Australia in her current "unhappy" relationship vs his "need" to save and rescue her due to "feelings" he had for her. Then there's the others...Jack's dad is still dead and worse off now since he's been "misplaced". Kate is still in handcuffs and going to jail. Charlie is still the drug addict destined for either jail or coffin... Sun and Jin still are uncomfortable together...Jin telling Sun to button her top button of her sweater...and also throwing in more turmoil with all the money smuggling issues... Can't really gauge what's up with Sawyer in the alt timeline...is he still a con...? Did killing the wrong man in Australia straighten him up...? Just wondering...

#48. Posted by: Boodle at February 17, 2010 8:30 AM

Much better episode.

Great job on the high-def cave ceiling recap. No Kate? Veeeeeerrrrry interesting...

Somehow I suspect if Sawyer had fallen off the cliff face Flocky (Fake Locke + Smoky) would've crossed off Ford and just gone after the next "substitute."

Just throwin' this out there...When Locke was substitute teaching and he stopped a kid to ask where 's the teacher's lounge...was that kid supposed to be a bit off a shout-out to Walt? I mean, he asked a black boy...he could've asked a Chinese girl or a grown-up, so...

Don't know what kind of whiskey Sawyer was drinking but he sure seemed to sober up fast.

Cool and controlled Richard running away like a frightened schoolgirl? Priceless.

#49. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 17, 2010 8:36 AM

If the alt timeline is about what would happen if the plane landed safely, why would that effect Ben or Ethan? They would have already been living on the island as the plane flew over. They never went to the island because of 813 right?

#50. Posted by: sadrhino at February 17, 2010 8:42 AM

Have been here since the beginning and for me this is the BEST tv show i have ever been for a ride on. Few quirkly observations:
1)Man does Hugo look boss in his suit with those sideburns and smile.
2)What is up w/that spooky goofy chick that was interviewing Locke at the temp agency?
3)In alt time did you hear Locke's alarm clock. Sounded the same as when the numbers needed to be entered in the computer, anybody else hear that?
4)And this is the best. Almost a Sharon Stone moment w/Sawyer in his undershorts. Woohoo! Sorry iloveben.... but Sawyer is the thing that sexual fantasies are for. Love that man.
Just rewatched and i agree that last weeks episode was "fodder", this week was WOW.

#51. Posted by: PegLegRider at February 17, 2010 8:43 AM

Just a thought about smokey. When he moves you hear the metalic sound, Like the clinking of slave chains. Maybe those are what keeps him chained to the island and why he couldn't completely leave the ground to jump the sonic fence.

#52. Posted by: S. W. Confused at February 17, 2010 8:43 AM

Anybody else notice that Locke's alarm sounded like the "1 minute" countdown warning from the hatch?

#53. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 8:50 AM

oops forgot @24, yes they have hand controls for handicapped car drivers and i (see my name) have one leg but still ride my Harley. Modifications make it possible for us to do all things - except be Jacobs replacement

#54. Posted by: PegLegRider at February 17, 2010 8:50 AM

Some observations:

- Flocke crosses out Locke's name in the cave. It was still up there. Has he crossed out (some of) the other names as well? Maybe Jacob keeps on bringing candidates to the Island and Flocke keeps wiping them out.

- There are numbers to match all the names in the cave, like 313 Littleton, 272 Kalin, etc. What's up with those numbers?

- So Locke didn't go to the conference, and he didn't go on the walkabout. Where did he go then? And what was he thinking? That his boss wouldn't find out or that he would forgive him? He's got a marriage coming up, why risk everything?

- Flocke seems afraid when he sees the little blonde boy. Not sure if it's Jacob, but almost sure. Did both of them come to the Island as children?

- My favorite quote, when Sawyer asks Flocke if he has read Of Mice and Men: 'Nope. A little after my time'

#55. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 8:54 AM

@37 We saw Sawyer enter the numbers in the Long Con when he told Jack he was trying to get the high score on Donkey Kong

Amazing episode…The fact that Claire’s name is crossed off means she is dead which is sad…Flocke made a very compelling case I wonder who is really good and who is bad?

#56. Posted by: Deebo at February 17, 2010 8:54 AM

@Silhouette: Thanks for the heads up on 42! I made the edit.

@mizzed: Thanks for the HD breakdown! That's a huge help.

#57. Posted by: mac at February 17, 2010 8:56 AM

Did we know for sure before that Dogen's sidekick was really called Lennon? I didn't realize that was the character's actual name until watching the enhanced episode last night. I just thought we'd given him the moniker because of his glasses. I must have missed something. Not te first time--won't be the last.

#49 ransom
Maybe the whiskey was like Star Trek synthehol...
And Richard...when did he become such a whuss? That was funny!

And another thought on sounds...listened during the rewatch of last weeks ep and in the new ep for the FOOM sounds and it definitely sounds like airplane noises starting with how it would sound when flying then the rattling from the event leading to the crash. Though the rattling also resembles Smokey's sound.

#58. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 17, 2010 8:56 AM

Just grabbed this from elsewhere...so I can take no credit (or flack!) for the accuracy of the analysis:

NAMES ON THE CAVE WALL:
Oceanic (alive)
8 – Reyes
15 – Ford
16 – Jarrah
23 – Shepard
42 – Kwon (Jin or Sun? Both?)
313 – Littleton (Claire? Aaron?)

Oceanic (Dead)
195 – Pace
4 – Locke

Others
10 – Mattingley
317 – Cunningham
117 – Linus (Roger? Emily? Ben?)
55? – Burke

Dharma
??? – Goodspeed (Horace? Olivia? Ethan?)
134? – Chang

French Team
? – Lacombe

Freighter
Lewis
Faraday
171? – Straume

US Army
233 – Jones

Undetermined
222 – O’Toole
291 – Domingo
346 – Grant

Partial
33 – XW?
20 – Rouf…
62 – …?
90 – Tr(oup?)
…? – …ersen
285 – Jen…
49 – …chan
30 – …la
195 – …?
?? – Reyno(lds?)
27? – …?
1? – Sullivan
…? – …zki

#59. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 9:07 AM

I just LOVE this show!!

If the MIB/Jacob represent two halves of the same person separated somehow, could that be what we are seeing in our characters in the alternate timeline. Perhaps we are seeing the "other half" of them that was "lost" when Jacob interferred in their lives?

Random thoughts...

Interesting no Kate on the ceiling of the cave. Jacob definitely touched her. Does that mean that he figured out she wasn't a candidate? Are all of the others that Jacob touched represented? Are we missing everyone?

Freaky pre-teen boy creeped out the MIB too! He must be powerful. I, too, immediately thought a reincarnated Jacob. The image of him with bloody hands in the beam of sunlight seemed very symbolic-y.

Loved the scene of Ben Linus being pissy about people not brewing more coffee in the teachers' lounge. Priceless! I kept wanting WAALLTT to show up at the school. Oh, if only he was ageless like Richard!

I bet Juliet will end up being Sun's OB/GYN in the sideways flashes!

#60. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 17, 2010 9:10 AM

If Locke is number 4, who are 1,2 and 3?

#61. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 9:15 AM

Did anyone else make this connection: Jacob is just like the knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? He has to stay on the island until he finds a worthy replacement. But alas, he's chosen . . . poorly.

Cheers!

#62. Posted by: Geof at February 17, 2010 9:16 AM

After Sawyer got the scoop on Flocks true intensions from Richard Alpert, I believe he is now running the long con on MIB/Flock to find out the truth. He will later use this against him.

#63. Posted by: Glen at February 17, 2010 9:23 AM

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but we've speculated that the smoke monster/MIB can take the form of dead bodies on the island. I guess it seems obvious at this point. But didn't some people a while back have strange visions of Walt on the island? And he never died.

#64. Posted by: MiketheChemist at February 17, 2010 9:24 AM

OK there are a ton of posts, and I only read the recap, but wanted to get my random thoughts in while I had time.

I noticed that neither Flocke nor Sayid took drinks when offered (Jack offered Sayid a drink of water last episode, and Sawyer offered Flocke wiskey)

The "numbers" were well in play before Hurley was ever touched by Jacob (about a week ago?). So how can it be that Hurley still made the cave ceiling hall of fame?

I suspect Jacob protects the island by being the prison guard of Flocke, preventing him from ever leaving.

The rules may be that Flocke cannot kill Jacob or any of his candidates. Somehow Ben and Witmore fall into these same rules, but what "side" are each of them on? Ilana must know these rules and therefore also must know that Ben is lying when he said Flocke killed Jacob.

Why did Flocke say "what kid" after Sawyer asked if he caught up with him?

Off-island Locke's fate met him with a spinal surgeon, just like a spinal surgeon fatefully fell out of the sky when Ben needed one.

OK, so Locke didn't go on the walkabout after all, but how did he end up with Helen and how in the world did they both make amends with Locke's father after he tried to kill him? Further Locke originally was told to go on walkabout by Abbadon, not his company, and he wanted to bring his dial-a-date with him.

The title of the episode "Substitute" is the same position Locke ends up with in the end

Perhaps before the incident, the numbers/candidates were "bad" but after the incident they are good. Did sides somehow change?

Great episode! Watched it twice!

#65. Posted by: BEMH at February 17, 2010 9:24 AM

Random theory on Kate, based on what someone wrote about perhaps in this timeline, she is really innocent:

If the alt-timeline is attempting to portray the lives of the characters as being "better" and/or resolved in some way, then it would make sense that she must be innocent and never committed the crime.

Originally, as a young girl, she stole something and Jacob was there to bail her out. Thus, she learned she can get away with things -- such as murdering her step father. therefore, as an older women, she murder him thinking she could get away with it.

However, if in the alt timeline Jacob never visited her, and she got caught and punished as a young girl when stealing the lunch box, she might have learned an important lesson and therefore would *not* have then killed her step father. Thus, in the alt-timeline, it could be that she is really innocent.

Of course, attacking the cop and escaping and all that can't help her case much!

#66. Posted by: Jeff at February 17, 2010 9:25 AM

i am not entirely convinced that Kate's name isn't on the cave wall or shouldn't be there. What has Flocke said or done to make us believe that anything he says should be taken at face value? I think he is trying to pull a fast one on Sawyer, who is most vulnerable at this time, to pull off his own self serving agenda. Maybe it was Locke's name all along that shouldn't have been on that wall. His name was never on the "list" in previous seasons, and that really irked him, didn't it? And Locke's name is crossed off the cave as 4. Maybe it's Kate's name all along that should be listed as 4...I don't know. I would tend to believe real Locke over Flocke any day....

I loved the parallel timeline this week. I think it's interesting that the first encounters that Locke has with other "numbered" 815-ers resulted in his benefit of some sort - Hurley getting him a new job, Jack offering a free consult. I betcha he will somehow meet up with Kate, Kwons, and Sayid in this timeline and this will benefit him somehow too. What this could possibly mean, I couldn't tell ya, but I thought it was interesting...

Also loved the reference to _Of Mice and Men_....now to figure out who's really supposed to be George and who's really supposed to be Lenny. White bunny, anyone????

WGNABB! :)

#67. Posted by: Vikki at February 17, 2010 9:27 AM

I'm loving it all. Like the idea that we're coming down to the finish line and all things will be answered - - - I hope.

I too am in the mind set that Jacob and MIB are the same or were the same, just the two sides put together like Yin and Yang. That we're seeing that in the island time vs. the alt time.

I also like that Sawyer can see the young boy as Richard didn't. And from what someone posted that he saw the horse and others didn't.

Thanks for all the ideas that people post as it's fun to see where everyone's mind goes.

#68. Posted by: dk at February 17, 2010 9:33 AM

There's more to the ATL (Alttimeline) than Jacob not touching people. Hugo's life in the ATL is completely different, regardless of Jacob touching him, which happens after his first visit to the Island.

If the Incident caused the ATL, by sinking the Island, why is Ben present in the ATL? He was brought to the Island before the Incident, so shouldn't he have just died in the Island-sinking ATL?

I think the cause of the ATL coming into existance, is the outcome of whatever war is yet to be waged. Or something.

#69. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 9:34 AM

I'm having a hard time seeing Jacob as "good" and the MIB/Flocke as "evil". Ben has killed how many people (?) supposedly to protect the island and in Jacob's name. None of the Greek/Roman gods were on the side of humankind - some were just nicer to humans than others. If anything, the show is starting to feel less like a Star Wars analogy, and more like the movie Dogma, where the fallen angels just want to come home, no matter how many mortals are wiped out along the way.

I'm also suffering from an absence of certain characters: on the Island timeline, what's happening with Desmond, Penny, their child Charlie? Last season we were all panicking that little Charlie had been kidnapped - has that been dropped just like Libby? There's so little time for all the answers we are craving!

#70. Posted by: jaybee at February 17, 2010 9:36 AM

-So Locke didn't go on the walk about....WHO WANTS TO FIGHT?!?!?!?!

-@ #49 ransomjackson: "I mean, he asked a black boy..."

easily the best post this season! LOL

-I would have lost my shizznit if on the cave wall it said, #1 - MIF

#71. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 17, 2010 9:44 AM

If Lockes father is no longer a con man in alt world, then James Ford never lost his parents to Sawyers con. Perhaps James is not a con man in alt world.

#72. Posted by: Glen at February 17, 2010 9:51 AM

Thanks #35, O Brother Where Art Thou is one of my favorite movies! #47 - I noticed smokey seeming to hop around the island as well. Was there a flash? I'll have to re-watch. Maybe Smokey and Jacob can be in all places at all times.

In the alt timeline, the bomb blew up the island in 1977, right? Who would have died and who should be alive because they hadn't made it to the island yet? Ben is alive as a school teacher. Did young Ben go to the island after 1977? There is a Dharma initiative in the alt timeline - the Dharma neighborhood was seen underwater. Would Widmore have died? Confused.

#73. Posted by: MiketheChemist at February 17, 2010 10:05 AM

@16/Bushhound2 wrote "My only question is... why in the season finale of season 2 Hurley was not on the list of the others and had to go back"

Hurley was not on the list because he was not yet touched by Jacob, but then again neither was Sayid.

@19/Vintage Great Theory!

Why was Desomond not touched by Jacob to steer him to the island, but instead was recruited by Eloise?

If Littleton and Jarrah were not crossed out, does this mean they are not dead? They are obviously still candidates. Can they be saved?

IF Kate's name is on the wall, why is she not one of the core numbers? She is the only other known person touched by Jacob. Also shouldn't there be 2 Kwon names since Jacob touched both Jin and Sun? Perhaps women either do not qualify or are counted as part of their man. So who is Kate's man?

What about Miles? He is a main character now and not one of the core numbers. But someone mentioned his name was seen on the cave ceiling. Was it crossed off?

#74. Posted by: BEMH at February 17, 2010 10:14 AM

This whole "Kate's name not being on the grotto wall" thingy is bugging me. So...here's what I think:

It IS on the wall....we just didn't see it and Flocke purposely did not reveal it to Sawyer. Why? Because Richard is right -- Flocke/MIB does want to kill Sawyer and all his friends. The only way for him to "go home" is to rid the island of all the candidates. He will get Sawyer to help with this by MANIPULATION. How?

1. by telling Sawyer that he gets to go home too..and taking initial actions to make Sawyer believe this is possible

2. by tricking Sawyer into believing that Kate won't be affected (i.e. doesn't count) since her name wasn't on the list. Maybe he will even go so far as to promise Sawyer that Kate goes home too. Then he will try to kill them as well since they really are both candidates.

I know that lots of y'all don't care for Kate and have bashed the episodes that focus on her. However, Damon and Carlton have repeatedly said that this final season is about the characters and she IS a main character. So...I tihnk there is lots more to be played out involving our scrappy, think-on-your-feet fugitive. Especially in regards to her candidacy.

#75. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 10:26 AM

Slightly off topic ... politics gets LOST:

http://townhall.com/cartoons/2010/02/17/3

#76. Posted by: drew458 at February 17, 2010 10:27 AM

@53. Posted by: GatorGal

Locke's alarm totally sounded like the hatch countdown warning. Made me smile!

#77. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 10:33 AM

Alrighty fellow losties . . . I know many of you are better at this than I am.

Darlton (producers) came out and said that we could figure out a big clue to who the MIB/smokey is. They said that if we take the name "Johnny", then add two vowels and three consonants, that it would create an anagram that would tell us who the MIB is. (By the way, they also said it is in a foreign language - which makes this extra difficult, but some of you are ridiculously smart, so I'm sure you'll come up with something.)

Any takers on this challenge?

Good luck.

#78. Posted by: ANTP? at February 17, 2010 10:38 AM

If we are to believe that the ATL occurred because of the bomb being blown up in 1977 there are some things that need explaining.

@72 Glen - Sawyer told Jack in 1977 that he could have gone off island to stop his parent's from being killed in 1976. So presumably if all events happened the same until 1977, Locke's dad did con Sawyer's parents, ultimately leading to their deaths.

But maybe Locke's dad changes his ways at some point. Or who Helen refers to as Locke's dad in the ATL is not Anthony Cooper. An adoptive father, maybe?

@73 - Ben was on the island in 1977. Sawyer and Kate took him to Richard, and last we saw of Ben he went in to the temple. If the bomb sunk the island, how is Ben alive and teaching in LA? Wouldn't he have gone down with the island. Does ATL Ben remember being on the island until 1977?

Wouldn't the sinking of the island in 1977 also mean that Richard, Widmore, Eloise, and all other Hostiles also died when the island sunk? Or did the 'Hostiles' somehow know to evacuate like the Dharma folks did?

The flash sideways are confusing if they are supposed to be a split from 1977 forward.

#79. Posted by: GFish at February 17, 2010 10:38 AM

@ BEMH #74:

- I believe Miles (Straume) name IS crossed out on the grotto wall. Perhaps death is not the only way that Jacob had of determining candidate viability since he is alive.

- Maybe Kate is NUMBER 108! (and we just haven't seen that part of the wall yet) Hmmm.....

#80. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 10:44 AM

Interesting that Juliet Burke was written on the cave ceiling, though we never actually saw Jacob touch her to choose her in the flashback...?

#81. Posted by: vintage at February 17, 2010 10:54 AM

re: where is Kate and what is her #?

Perhaps Kate simply is not Candidate material? I wouldn't trust her with the island!

I AM NOT A NUMBER - I AM A FREE MAN!

Speaking of which....

That remake of the Prisoner was garbage. There were some good ideas, but they just didn't deliver it right. It was so boring - I actually nodded off a few times.

#82. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 10:55 AM

Help! Did Miles stare "too long" @ Sayid when he came back to life in the Temple? Or was it just my imagination? Do you think Miles "saw" something in a "dead" or "UN dead" person?

#83. Posted by: Brian at February 17, 2010 10:55 AM

(snicker) those were some _dirty_ shorts that Sawyer was wearing...

#84. Posted by: alexx at February 17, 2010 11:08 AM

@78 ANTP?
"Darlton (producers) came out and said that we could figure out a big clue to who the MIB/smokey is. They said that if we take the name "Johnny", then add two vowels and three consonants, that it would create an anagram that would tell us who the MIB is."

I got "Jehovah" for starters by adding e and a and h and v, which leaves Nyn from "Johnny" and an unknown consonant. This is a fun one - any other ideas?

#85. Posted by: glostover at February 17, 2010 11:09 AM

re: the Jacob cave

All in all, I'd have to say this was a pretty weird hang-out. If I didn't know any better, I'd think Jacob was just some sort of deranged stalker. Therapy? Libby?

#86. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 11:09 AM

I tend to fall into the category of MIB and Jacob being one entity that is at war with the good and bad sides of itself. Jacob was no goody-two-shoes ordering Ben to do evil things as posted above and Smokey was benevolent to Locke and also Ben when he killed the freighter guys for him.
Have always thought Smokey's sound effects sounded like chains. He can only walk freely as a claimed unburied body. Burying Lockes body after the fact seems to have had no effect on MIB except he suddenly could see the boy at around the same time Locke's body was buried.
Does Richard and Sayid's personality transformations (tough, calm to scared and wimpy) mean something?
Who knew Mile's dad (chang?) was really a meteor-studying astronomer that loves Bud Light! What a revelation!

#87. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at February 17, 2010 11:11 AM

After sifting through all the posts, a thought about how some of our characters are off island...

If 815 never crashed... then there would have never been a need for the freighter crew to come to the island.... Faraday would have never told the Others to bury the A-bomb, it would have exploded, thus sinking the island and resulting in Ben never going to the island... One could also assume that if the island was destroyed, then Jacob would have never visited our young Losties or Jack as a surgeon, Sun and Jin at their wedding, Hurley in the cab, so on and so on... and this would have kept these people on the path they were "destined" to follow.

A big theme in the show is destiny... maybe what we've seen wasn't destiny at all... and the alt-timeline is their true destinies, however uneventful it may seem for some of the characters.

Also, I like the idea that we don't know if the MIB and Jacob are good or bad. The biblical references in the show are off the charts and I find the devil, Christ analogy to be of particular importance. Did anybody notice how Sayid's arms were outstretched like a cross when they carried him out of the hot tub (the healing pool of Bethesda in the Bible?)

I loved the Psalm 23 post as well... very interesting.

I keep going back to Daddy issues as well... I would really be convinced if the MIB's name turned out being Esau... some other daddy issues we've seen

Jack and Christian
Kate and her step father
Jin and his poor father
Sun and her Mob like dad
Penny and Whidmore
Locke and Cooper
Ben and Roger workman
Hurley and his Father leaving him
Sawyer and his Dad killing his mom
Miles and Dr. Chang
Faraday not knowing who his father was
Claire and Christian
Walt and Michael

The list goes on and on... somehow I think this might tie into some sort of role in the grand scheme of things

#88. Posted by: csmithfdub at February 17, 2010 11:17 AM

Perhaps the cave names are more of a census -- a "list" of all the inhabitants of the island over the years. Only SOME of them were brought there as candidates while others came by other means (Dharma recruits, Rousseau's team, etc).

I still think there are plenty of names that are there but have just not yet been revealed. Frank Lapidus, for instance. Iliana said he was "a candidate" but his name wasn't shown. Kate, too, has been on "the list" twice (once on Michael's list from the Others and again on the list from Jacob inside the ankh) and yet we just did not see her name.

#89. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 11:20 AM

@79- Concluding that the bomb and the Alt. timeline were a result of each other is completely wrong and that was the purpose of showing the island sunk…This reality has no relation with Jughead

#90. Posted by: Deebo at February 17, 2010 11:28 AM

Vintage @ 19
Vikki @67
GatorGal @ 75

I completely agree. Just as little Jacob/Island reminded him last night, according to the rules of the game, Flocke cannot kill candidates and/or Jacob himself. However, he cannot go home as long as any of them remain alive on the island. The game is still afoot.
Flocke thought that he had solved this problem by of having all of the candidates removed from the island and getting Ben to kill Jacob. No candidates left on the island, no general around to protect The Others. Now I can go on a killing spree and kill everyone (Richard sure seems this is next to do on his “to do” list at least) and finally go home.

However, Jacob trumped him. He brought back the 06. “They’re coming”.

Now Flocke has to re-strategize and recruit. So he scans the island similar to what he did when flight 815 first crashed. He needs a new someone to do the dirty business for him. Who would be believable to the other candidates in getting them to leave the island and/or kill them if they don’t agree. You immediately think of Ben, but Ben has seen MIB’s dark side already “you used me”, and he has lost a lot of influence with the others. How about Richard? I have a feeling Richard too has seen MIB darkside and, as such, is unwilling to believe or join his side. Enter Sawyer. A con man by nature, who is broken, and willing to do whatever it takes to forget this d@mn island!

#91. Posted by: bizarro workman at February 17, 2010 11:36 AM

#33 I can't believe that the ultrasound date was a production error. The date is just too significant of a detail and of such importance to the entire story timeline. But if Helen referred to an October wedding, then maybe you are right. But this group of TPTB's seem to relish the "details" and providing clues to the story through them so if in fact this was a production error then I would be shocked because that would be a huge storyline impact. I don't believe that to be the case

#58 I think the change in Richard since the death of Jacob (cowardly or wuss or whatever term we use) is a way of letting us know the seriousness of the circumstances that come with the death of Jacob. We see similar responses from Ilana and Dogen(sp?) when they hear of his death as well.


Another great episode, and hanging out with you guys afterward help me to pick up on things that I didn't see or didn't realize while watching the episode. Thanks for enhancing my Lost experience through this blog.

#92. Posted by: duheb at February 17, 2010 11:36 AM

wasn't the blond kid one of the children stolen by the Others in Season One? Specifically, wasn't he the boy in the Pilot episode standing with the little girl on the beach looking for their parents? Then they were approached by the stewardess seen last week in the temple? I'm terrible with names, but I'm sure that's them...

#93. Posted by: Donnie at February 17, 2010 11:45 AM

Kate's name IS on the wall. I think that is what Mizzed said in number 14, correct?

#94. Posted by: D Cyprian at February 17, 2010 11:50 AM

#4. Posted by: shikotee
Thanks for the Lyrics!

13. Posted by: PiecesofArz
Compare and contrast: Radzinski telling Desmond that he was grooming him to replace him (so he could leave the island) and Jacob grooming replacements (for leaving the island)?

Long musing.
What if.... since the island has a fertility god standing on it and Ben was trying to deal with women not being able to carry to full term....The island is from a future where man has just about wiped himself out. The island is an experiment where people from the end of the world, were trying to see if man is worthy of being saved.

Jacob and MIB have been sent to this piece of "earth out of time" to find this answer. Jacob, from the conversation between himself and MIB is hopeful. It only ends once and all is progress. He thinks man can be saved and is manipulating them to the island to test them. MIB is tired of it and his immortality in this time capsule. He wants to go home and is willing to end it all. Despair. But if Jacob or MIB leave the island before they find an answer, then man is doomed and the end of the world will occur. Or maybe it has occurred? And they need to find "candidates" to continue the line of man. The statue has to be involved somewhere. And many people have said "God help us all " if this doesn't work. Why they can't leave is perhaps some catch that the people who sent them there have attached to insure their success. MIB's loophole now could bring the end.

#95. Posted by: berkyo at February 17, 2010 11:53 AM

regardng: Kate's name IS on the wall -

Yes. #14 = Queenbeyotch

#96. Posted by: Dastardly1 at February 17, 2010 11:56 AM

There was something written on the cave wall that I thought was odd. It said, "More mud fights with Juliet & Kate"....isn't that wierd?

#97. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 17, 2010 12:00 PM

Even the guards who went with Kate and Jin to find Sawyer know about Jin possibly being a candidate. So they probably know about Sun as well. I think it's kind of weird that these schmucks know something important like that.


Also, can someone help me remember? What did Richard answer, when Ilana asked him what lies in the shadow of the statue?

#98. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 12:06 PM

@ 98 Mischa:

He answered in Latin, "He who will save us all."

#99. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 12:15 PM

Oh yeah, thanks!

So who is it? :P

#100. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 12:20 PM

@83: I think Miles was listening to Sayid when Sayid was "dead". He may have heard something he did not want to hear or did not understand. Same thing when he listened to dead Juliette. I don't think Miles told Sawyer everything dead Juliette said to him.

@90: How do you draw that conclusion? If it didn't happen that way, it seems that the writers wanted us to believe the bomb went off, sunk the island, and caused the alt timeline.

#101. Posted by: MiketheChemist at February 17, 2010 12:48 PM

GRAA Mac

Haven't posted for a while but never stopped reading.

As to the "flash-sideways" we're seeing, I believe it represents what could or would have been if the island hadn't influenced our losties and everybody else that was on the island.

This goes to show though that even without the influence of the island, most of the charcacters were ment to cross paths but under different circumstances.

The only thing I haven't figured out is if what we our seeing is post "big bang" or post series finale as some other posters mentionned after LA X.

I also believe that Sawyer is playing Flocke. The last thing he's going to do is trust something (his words) that seems to play the con as good as himself.

@ Cecil #8

Thinking Adam and Eve could be Jin and Sun now are we...Jury's still out for me as to those two.

That's all for now.

#102. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at February 17, 2010 12:50 PM

IF Jacob i toying with mortal's lives in order to find a replacement, then he keeps bringing "Candidates" to the island. If all the Candidates had left the island, and has someone kill Jacob, perhaps the cycle would be broken. What if MIB is on the island to keep Jacob in check. (Chess Pun intended) Once another player takes Jacob out, the game ends and MIB can go home. I think that Jacob just rooked himself.

Also - how we know that MIB/Cave Locke is not the one who has been crossing names off in the cave. He makes a point of crossing out Locke.

#103. Posted by: Hurleys Beard at February 17, 2010 12:51 PM

notice numbers 108 or 815 was ever revealed? Perhaps Austen is one of them and that completes the formula

#104. Posted by: KD at February 17, 2010 1:08 PM

@ Skipper #39 - "Would love to see Hurley climb down that ladder." - classic.

I think they were a bit over-the-top with the whole look-how-pathetic-crippled-Locke-is thing. Yes, we're supposed to feel bad for him but his wheel chair lift breaks, he falls on his face, and then the sprinklers turn on? A bit heavy-handed in my opinion.

Love these episode summaries and all the great commenting. First and only place to go every "morning after".

#105. Posted by: Greg at February 17, 2010 1:08 PM

The whole loophole thing did not really work because in essence MIB did kill Jacob, which is against the rules. By appearing to Ben as Alex, MIB manipulates ben into following everything Locke Says. Lock is MIB therefore MIB tells ben deceptively to do what ever MIB ask of him or Ben will suffer death in a gruesome manner. MIB tells Ben to Kill Jacob. Ben does not really kill Jacob of his own free will. It was only under the manipulation of MIB that Ben believes he tried to kill jacob. Besides, Jacob was alive when MIB kicked him into the fire. Had MIB's haste not gotten the best of him MIB may have succeeded. But in the end, the Pheonix rises once again from the ashes.

#106. Posted by: Hurleys Beard at February 17, 2010 1:08 PM

Am I the only one who thinks he saw a picture of Desmond and some dark haired woman hanging behind Locke when he was in Rose's office?

#107. Posted by: LostSoul at February 17, 2010 1:11 PM

Do you remember in S5...."After Ben tells Sun that Richard has been around for "a very long time", Sun interrupts Locke and Richard with the 1977 DHARMA Recruits picture, asking Richard if he recognizes the people in it. Richard replies he recognizes them because he "watched them all die"".

Ok, so what was he talking about...they haven't died and we're already back to 2007....????

#108. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 1:22 PM

So where the hell does Jacob live? The cave, cabin or foot statue?

#109. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 1:24 PM

@109. Posted by: Skipper

I'm sure there is tons of Jacob's hangouts that we have not yet seen. The dude's in charge of the island - he knows where all the premo real estate is hidden.

Perhaps they have written Jacob a Paulo character arch, and we will find out where Jacob likes to drop a deuce or two. Perhaps this is the real answer to what lies in the shadow of the statue...

#110. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 1:29 PM

Ilana knows that Ben is telling a lie when he says that Flock killed Jacob. Ilana seems like she knows the rules - she knows that Flock can't kill Jacob therefor it had to have been Ben since he was the only other person there. Ilana is gonna open up a can of whoop a$$ on Ben. She's keeping her cool for now...but just wait.

Also, I loved how Lepidus just walked around working on his tan and flaunting his chest hair while letting Ilana do all the heavy lifting while carrying Locke to his grave.

#111. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 1:34 PM

@discussion between 90&101: About the ATL (Alttimeline)

In ATL, the Island has sunk. We don't know when it sunk or how. It could be because of Jughead or something else. If it was Jughead that sunk the Island, ATL must have been created as a result of that incident. In that case, it is a co-existing reality, a separate string of time that started in the 70s. Because if the explosion caused the Island to sink, there would not be an on-Island future for the foomers to return to or an island for Alpert, Ben, etc to have lived on in that future... right? (wipes blood from nose)

This show is never straightforward. What we think we see, is usually something else. After hearing Daniel's theory, and seeing this season's opening episodes, the most logical assumption to make, is that Jughead worked and that caused the ATL. So that is probably not true :)

I'm sticking with ATL not being ATL, but STLYTBCBFEICTLOS (substitute timeline, yet to be created by future events in current timeline, or something)

#112. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 1:35 PM

@ Shikotee #4
Locke in tub, comparing the light and dark fabric! LoL!!!

Did you also notice that his mug was dark on one side and light on the other?

#113. Posted by: AmyR at February 17, 2010 1:39 PM

re: Kate's name being on the wall, i think we need to drop it. Flock did tell Sawyer that all of his friend's names are there. so it's implied that Kate's name is on there. Plus we know she was touched by Jacob, so she's there - we just didn't see it. DANKN?

#114. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 1:40 PM

@108:
I've been wondering about that as well. Why would he lie about that? If he did see them die, he must have been present at the Incident and assumed that they died. He didn't seem very surprised to see Sawyer alive and back in current time, though.

#115. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 1:46 PM

many many christian Christ/God and Satan references that could be there or maybe just the usual good vs evil going on. My take is the timeline on the island will end when everyone dies. The ultimate sacrafice to save mankind from the Smoke Monster who is "evil" and the alternate timeline will take over as the ONLY timeline. The lives of those on the plain will cross in a good way...everyone is happy. A little Disney, and I am still not sure Abrams will give us that, but I think its all pointing that way. I even suspect that Juliet and Mr McHotty (Sawyer) will meet in the alternate time line and be together.

My only question is where is Michael??!! Did he piss off Abrams or something....you would think they would have paid GOOD MONEY to have him on the flight and start his story up again with Walt.

#116. Posted by: mich at February 17, 2010 1:52 PM

We are seeing the ending of the show playing out in the flash sideways scenes. These flashes are showing how things will end up for each character with each new episode. What we are missing now is the in-between part. It's like all the in-between stuff happened in the blink of an eye for the characters because they end up in the same period of time--with altered futures of course and obviously with some recognition of each other.

The reason why Kate's name wasn't there could be that her character was never considered a real "candidate" but her strong connection to some or all of the "true candidates" somehow drew her into the mix. Maybe Jacob knew that by using her in this way he could give her the chance to have a better future since her life would be altered as well.

Another ?--Is it the assumption that "Shephard 23" on the cave wall refers to Jack? Could it be his dad?

#117. Posted by: gg at February 17, 2010 1:53 PM

@114. Posted by: Skipper
re: kate's name not on wall

I don't agree. Really - how can you take Flocke at his word? My impression is that he will say/do anything to achieve his objective, which seems to wanting to leave the island (if this can be believed).

For whatever reason, the writers opted not to show Kate's name, nor is it associated with one of the numbers. This could be important, or irelevent. It could just be that the writers are messing with us. With that said, I would not assume that it is on the wall somewhere.

Some people have mentioned that Shepherd could also be referring to Christian. This crossed my mind too. I also wondered if this could also refer to Kate. In normal time, they were engaged. Perhaps in sideways world, they will meet and actually get married.

#118. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 2:06 PM

@ #85 Posted by glostover …

Well, it's not in another language, but if I add two ee's, an ar, a double-yew, and an ess, I can come up with Henry W Jones (aka Indiana).

I know, I know…I'll keep trying…

#119. Posted by: ransomjackson at February 17, 2010 2:07 PM

Is it possible that Ilana knows that the MIB/Smokey can't change his appearance now because they have Locke's body? Perhaps he was able to switch from Christian to Yemi to whoever else because those bodies were never recovered?

#120. Posted by: Keluha at February 17, 2010 2:10 PM

@51 #2: Weird temp agency interviewer is the same character that (falsely) read Hurley's tarot card fortune back in "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead".

#121. Posted by: enobeet at February 17, 2010 2:11 PM

#118. Posted by: shikotee
I don't agree. Really - how can you take Flocke at his word? My impression is that he will say/do anything to achieve his objective, which seems to wanting to leave the island (if this can be believed).

I'm not ONLY using Flock's word to come to the conclusion that Kate's name is on there somewhere. I'm using context clues and drawing conclusions based on what I saw and heard. I also asked myself, "Skipper, what would be the point in leaving Kate off?" (but I used my real name). And I can't think of anything that the storyline has to gain (at this stage of the game - season 6, folks) by leaving Kate off the wall and having Flock lie to Sawyer when he says, "all your friends are there".

Based on everything I've seen and heard - and based on the implications, I just think it's safe to say that she's on there somewhere and we just don't see it. Maybe she's not THAT important. I didn't see Eloise's name on there either, but it doesn't mean that she was left off. I can take what I know about the show - which is that Eloise was once the leader of the Others, and I can assume that her name is on there somewhere, too, it just wasn't shown to us. It's also possible that we were seeing the names from Sawyer's point of view - what his eyes were seeing. And maybe she saw kate's name out of the corner of his eye and chose not to focus on it - for emotional reasons.

Who knows. this will all change next week - or it'll never be answered and never effect the direction of the show.

That's all I'm sayin' Shikotee. Bottom like is that we just don't know - but we can make good guesses, sometimes they're right and other times they're right for exactly 6 days until the next episode airs:)

XO, Skipper

#122. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 2:25 PM

@113. Posted by: AmyR
re: Did you also notice that his mug was dark on one side and light on the other?

No - I did not notice this. Good eye!

#123. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 2:26 PM

#118. Posted by: shikotee
I don't agree. Really - how can you take Flocke at his word? My impression is that he will say/do anything to achieve his objective, which seems to wanting to leave the island (if this can be believed).

one more thing - if Flock was trying to lie and manipulate Sawyer re: the names on the wall, what would taking Kate's name off the wall achieve. Sawyer has more emotional attachment to Juliette (at this point in the season) and her name was on there. You'd think that if ANYONE was going to be removed so that Sawyer joins Team Flock, it would be Juliette. So, that's another reason I think Kate's name is there - we just didn't see it.

#124. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 2:29 PM

I think Aaron (Blonde boy in Jungle) is the current form representing the "higher power" on the island. I think he is the one that has been calling the shots all along. He created the rules which Jacob and MIB have to follow. Maybe Jacob and MIB stumbled onto the island and became his prisoners long ago and he will not release them until they achieve certain tasks which made them face-off in some sort of game-like situation. Their roles in the game were decided by the rocks on the scale in the cave which resulted in MIB only getting to go home if he beats Jacob. MIB/Locke feels he has a leg up in the game at this point so he threw Jacob's white rock into the ocean and turned the scale as a little..."private joke".

#125. Posted by: Losite at February 17, 2010 2:36 PM

#118
"I also wondered if this could also refer to Kate. In normal time, they were engaged. Perhaps in sideways world, they will meet and actually get married".

Good point--it would be just like Jin & Sun.

#126. Posted by: gg at February 17, 2010 2:40 PM

Anyone notice that it was "JACOB'S LADDER" that Sawyer almost fell off of.

wiki: Jacob's Ladder is a ladder to heaven, described in the Book of Genesis, which the biblical patriarch Jacob envisions during his flight from his brother Esau.

#127. Posted by: Skipper at February 17, 2010 2:44 PM

Maybe Kate's name was listed as one of her aliases. Maybe Kate is an alias and her real name is up there but we just don't know it.

#128. Posted by: gg at February 17, 2010 2:45 PM

#88 I would really be convinced if the MIB's name turned out being Esau.

I started this season with the remarkably reliable conjecture (rumor) from a 14 year old who said that MIB was going to be named "Esau."

Between Jacob and Esau- there are no clear good and evil, though perhaps a "black" and "white."

Jacob's son, Joseph went down to Egypt (Richard?).

In Egypt there was Moses and his brother.....Aaron.

Lotsa Genesis/Exodus schtick from a show produced by two boys who logged in many afterschool hours at Hebrew School.

I'm just sayin'........

#129. Posted by: skybox at February 17, 2010 2:54 PM

@Shikotee #123
Thanks, but I can't take credit for a good eye. I noticed the mug because I liked it but I didn't make the dark/light connection until I read your post. That's why I read this blog and all the comments. I tend to just watch for enjoyment and leave the conjecture to the smarter folks! Thanks for all the insight.

#130. Posted by: AmyR at February 17, 2010 2:54 PM

@108/Skipper wrote Do you remember in S5...."After Ben tells Sun that Richard has been around for "a very long time", Sun interrupts Locke and Richard with the 1977 DHARMA Recruits picture, asking Richard if he recognizes the people in it. Richard replies he recognizes them because he "watched them all die"".

Maybe Richard will still watch them all die. There could be another time jump/flashback where this time they die, and then the island sinks, and then the ATL is the real one. My head is spinning.

#131. Posted by: BEMH at February 17, 2010 2:54 PM

@ 106. Hurley's Beard - let's talk about that "free will" thing some more. Ostensibly Jacob and his followers espouse free will, yet they're extremely secretive and manipulative to the point that it's a farce.

So while I don't trust DeadLocke to tell the truth any more than I trust the writers to be straightforward, there had to be something to what he said in the cave - that Jacob's touch TOOK AWAY choices and forced the candidates down the path to island. Doesn't that make DeadLocke at least partially not ungood?

#132. Posted by: LockeBox at February 17, 2010 3:00 PM

Let's not forget that the whole reason Iliana and Bram are dragging Lapidus around is that "he is a candidate." And yet, we weren't actually shown his name on the grotto wall. Doesn't mean it isn't there. Same for others: Kate, Eloise, Widmore, Alpert even!

This whole show is like a puzzle: you are dying to complete it but when you dump the box and get started, you realize that there are pieces missing. Until those pieces are found (or revealed) completion can not occur. So...we wait like good little Lost fans!

#133. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 3:09 PM

Awesome episode! I have a few observations to share:

As many have said, why does anyone believe anything MIB is saying? I don't even believe that the cave he took Sawyer to was Jacob's cave. Perhaps it is HIS cave and he wrote the names on the wall and crossed them off after they were killed (like he did with Locke)

Also, I have this feeling that the flash sideways is the "new reality" the plane never crashed and we are witnessing what would have happened, but with a twist -- I think that Hurley is the one that "takes over" for Jacob. His new attitude in the new timeline for example. The luckiest guy in the world, how he interacts with Locke (coincidence? like Jacob?) Rose also happens to work for him?

The problem with this is that I can't decide if I am being manipluated into feeling that Hurley "takes over" for Jacob, or not.

I HATE Lost, I LOVE Lost, I HATE Lost, I LOOOOOOVE Lost......sigh

#134. Posted by: wendy at February 17, 2010 3:11 PM

I gotta tip my hat to mac on this particular review. Some may recall that I've stepped in for mac twice before for what turned out to be very deep and eventful episodes (both turns of the donkey wheel). The one recurring thought I had as I watched last nights ep is that I did not envy mac one bit. GRAA mac!!

#135. Posted by: vacc at February 17, 2010 3:13 PM

As to which Kwon is the candidate, doesn't Jacob actually touch Jin's arm when he goes through the receiving line at their wedding reception? Does Jacob ever lay hands on Sun in a similar fashion? Also, Jin is allowed into the temple. I vote that Jin is the Kwon in question. Anyone else?

#136. Posted by: add it up at February 17, 2010 3:14 PM

I believe that seeing the Island at the bottom of the ocean in the opening sequence of this season is clear evidence that the Locke-Ness Smoke-Monster is wrong when he tells Sawyer that the Island does not need to be protected!

#137. Posted by: vacc at February 17, 2010 3:23 PM

GRAA Mac!!! =]

I haven't read the posts yet so I'm really sorry if I repeat someone but...

How entertaining was it seeing Ben "dig". I don't think we've every seen him do anything really "hands on" other than shoot someone.

And I don't remember for sure, but from the screenshots it seems like Jacob only touched Jin (from the link Mac posted). So maybe Sun is insignificant to him.

Screenshot:
http://tinyurl.com/ygw78ne

It looks like he just touched Jin while looking at him in the eye.

I might be wrong.

#138. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at February 17, 2010 3:32 PM

#132. Posted by: LockeBox - Yes that is what I am sayin'. I don't think Jacobs's "You have a choice" line is honest. He is the one who is manipulating.
So far MIB has not really lied, he has omitted things, and we are led to believe that he has immitated others on the island. He
acts in self defense when attacked. But so far he has not been shown to "bring" anyone to the island to use for his purposes, and He is the one who leaves Jacob on the beach and does not wait for the Black rock to arrive.
If anything else it is interesting how we automatically assume roles.

#136. Posted by: add it up Jacob clearly puts his right hand on Jin's arm and his left hand on Sun's arm at the same time. I thought he was going to pull them in for a three-way Kum-Bye-Yah moment.

#137. Posted by: vacc - But what/who does the island need protection from?

#139. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 17, 2010 3:42 PM

Sorry I meant Left hand on Jin and Right hand on Sun.

#140. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 17, 2010 3:44 PM

@ 133 - You got it GatorGal. I like what you said.

@ 136 - He touches them both at the same time with his arms outstretched.

And I forgot to say GRAA - you certainly have made LOST a whole lot more fun.

#141. Posted by: dk at February 17, 2010 3:46 PM

New Observations (upon second viewing of episode):

Sideways Locke has two pictures in his cubicle -- one of he and Helen in a trpoical locale and one of he and his father/Anthony Cooper together. In both, he appears to be STANDING.

In Sideways Locke's box of office junk, it looks like there is a polar bear figurine!

The house that Sideways Locke pulls up to in the opening scene (the one he shares with Helen, presumably) looks an awful lot like the one he inspected for Nadia. Could it be the same neighborhood? Will we see Nadia and Sayid cross paths with Locke in this sideways world? What if they are neighbors????

#142. Posted by: GatorGal at February 17, 2010 3:49 PM

#138 -How entertaining was it seeing Ben "dig". I don't think we've every seen him do anything really "hands on" other than shoot someone.

He ALSO, almost made a pot of coffee...go Ben...

#143. Posted by: sandivon at February 17, 2010 3:55 PM

I hope in sideways world Hurley marries Libby and has Drive Shaft play at their wedding reception. Last scene...all the Losties and a few Others doing the electric slide at the reception with Jacob and the MIB watching from the bushes!!! ;-)

#144. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 17, 2010 3:58 PM

Random thoughts:

Manipulation I:
Along the lines of that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out there trying to get you, MIB and Jacob (and Ben and Sawyer for that matter) specialize in manipulation. However, just because manipulation is used doesn't mean free will is completely gone. Choices are still presented, even if they are heavily steered in one direction or another.

4 - Locke uses philosophical arguments to influence decisions
15 - Ford -- con man...makes his living off manipulating others
16 - Jarrah -- um ... torturer... I'm sure that qualifies as manipulation on several levels (skin, blood, soft tissue, muscle, bone...etc.)
23 - Shepherd -- spinal surgeon, physically manipulates scalpel during surgery. verbally manipulates/tempers expectations of his patients
42 - Kwon -- Jin as the muscle for Daddy Sun...physical intimidation/manipulation

8 - Reyes ?? I haven't figured this one out yet, so I believe there is something significant by omission

Manipulation II:
Ilana likely sees through Ben's "I didn't do it" lie about Jacob's death. But Jacob is dead. He told Hurley that. I don't think that the boy is Jacob reincarnated, but rather some new character, perhaps the very one that put Jacob and MIB into their contest in the first place. Deities in the various mythological pantheons have played games using mortals as pawns

Sawyer:
Sawyer possesses some quality that enables him to see the visions others see (Kate's horse, the boy MIB sees). Either that or I gots to get me some o that whiskey. In any event, he's conned and been conned before, so I think he's saying "yes" till he has to say "no" to DeadLocke.

The kid
Who is the kid? I do not think it is Jacob, but rather someone new. This kid could be a manifestation of a deity that set Jacob and MIB in their contest against one another. The kid's warning to FLocke "you can't kill him" I think is directed about Sawyer -- a reminder that Sawyer has been "selected" for one of the teams in that island pick-up game.

Richard and an "Origin Story"
I believe there will be a Richard "origin story" episode. I'm not sure where I heard it, but I think it's been rumored. I think in that episode, we will have many of the questions answered, so I would imagine it would be one of the final three episodes of the series. This is all speculation, mind you, but I think this is along the info we would gain from it.

The whole "I saw them die" reveal could be very simply set up as Richard being by the pit when Juliet hits Jughead and they FOOM to 2007. Richard would see the bright light and then would see them gone. He knows Jughead is the bomb (sorry davidrh). But as Richard is "really old", and likely a prisoner or something from the Black Rock, he doesn't truly know what to expect from nuclear devices. A bright light and people gone could very easily lead him to believe that they all died.

#145. Posted by: Gumbo at February 17, 2010 4:00 PM

Also, in the search for answers, we've only made progress (?) on the Jacob/MIB front. We still don't know anything new about the Island itself. And so far I'm buying DeadLocke's claim that he's trapped there, for better or for worse.

In other words, some Island with strange properties was around long before Jacob etc. landed on it, it's not like "Jacob and MIB crashed to earth on a flying saucer with strange properties."

The "protection" debate goes back to the Ben-Widmore battles, and Dharma's efforts to exploit the island - can mankind handle knowing and harnessing the awesome power of the Island (MIB's position), or does the truth need to be hidden and people saved from themselves (Jacob's position)?

At least thematically, it's coming together for me.

#146. Posted by: LockeBox at February 17, 2010 4:00 PM

Whenever did Ilana mention that MIB took form of Yemi or Christian?

Can anyone clear this up for me?

#147. Posted by: Veritas/Aequitas at February 17, 2010 4:10 PM

#133. Posted by: GatorGal - I too agree with most of this. Illana takes Lepidus along because he MAY be a candidate. remember Jacob appears to have brought everyone included in the known current candidate list in on flight 815. Lepidus was supposed to pilot the flight, but he did not. shortly after the crash the pilot is destroyed by a smoke monster. Maybe Jacob is also a smoke monster, and when he realized that Lepidus was not on the plane, he takes it out on the pilot that was there. Maybe MIB as a smoke monster thought that the pilot was Lepidus and takes him out of the equation early. I dunno, but I can't wait to find out and read what all of you have to say.

I also agree that LOST is much better because of this arena for thoughts. something I have looked forward to and will miss dearly in June.

#148. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 17, 2010 4:12 PM

I didn't see if anyone else mentioned this, so forgive me if this was already pointed out BUT ...
In the beginning of the episode dead John was in a brown suit and the new shots of dead John Locke he's in a dark blue suit. Sloppy continuity OR YET ANOTHER alt timeline???
DId anyone else notice this and do you have thoughts?

#149. Posted by: JoyofLost at February 17, 2010 4:12 PM

@147 - Whenever did Ilana mention that MIB took form of Yemi or Christian?

Can anyone clear this up for me?
#147. Posted by: Veritas/Aequitas

I think it was Sun that commented about it taking on lockes form, and what would prevent it from just taking the form of someone else. That is when Illana said that he was stuck in Locke's form.
Anyone remember this in more detail?

#150. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 17, 2010 4:14 PM

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already...Adam and Eve - the cave bodies... we holding a small bag with a black rock and a white rock.....

#151. Posted by: nicole at February 17, 2010 4:16 PM

I think it's clear that the alternate timeline/flash sideways are meant to represent a different reality that could have happened starting back in 1977, when the bomb was detonated, NOT starting in 2004 with the plane simply not crashing. There are too many differences otherwise. It's the only way it makes sense that Ben appears as a teacher in ATL; his dad never took him to the island after the death of his mother.

#152. Posted by: DJ Ativanex at February 17, 2010 4:20 PM

@151 nicole

Perhaps the skeletons really are Adam and Eve and the rocks were for Cain and Abel, aka Jacob and Esau? In Genesis, Cain did kill Abel, after all...

#153. Posted by: freckles at February 17, 2010 4:24 PM

The real LOCKE IS NOT DEAD.

This is just a theory (obviously) but did anyone else notice the spider that crawled off of "dead" Locke's body when they covered it up? Is it possible that Locke was saved by someone that night in the hotel? Could he have been given the same spider poison that paralyzed Nikki and Paolo? I know it may be wishful thinking but I feel like it was an odd choice. We also do not see the end of the burial scene, which seems disingenuous. WAKE UP LOCKE! Anyone agree? Refute?

Also: Kate. She was "pushed" by Jacob as a child and her name is not on the wall of Candidates. What gives?

I think the "Kwon" on the wal of Candidates is Ji-Yeon. Jacob touched both of her parents, pushing them to her birth?

Also, Hurley is new Jacob in Alt Timeline. Convinced of that.

Sawyer will become the replacement for MIB and Jack will be the new Jacob. Epic? Totally.

#154. Posted by: Instanthuner at February 17, 2010 4:28 PM

i am not sure if anyone posted this, but maybe the ashes will make the dunking tank @ the temple pure again??

#155. Posted by: todd at February 17, 2010 4:39 PM

@vacc: Thank you sir! As you're well aware, dense episodes are a double-edged sword. Great to watch, kinda tough to recap.

#156. Posted by: mac at February 17, 2010 4:52 PM

42 – Kwon
313 – Littleton

Could be Je-Yeon and Aaron. They are both hanging with grandma. Adam & Eve?

I like Hurley as the new Jacob (MIW) and Sawyer as the new MIB. Can you imagine the torture for Hurley? An eternity of insulting nicknames. And the torture for Sawyer? An eternity of boundless optimism. With no glasses and nothing to read.

#157. Posted by: SnidleyW at February 17, 2010 5:10 PM

@122. Posted by: Skipper

Tempted to sign off as Giligan...... ;)
Skipper!!!!!!!!.....

With all due respect - just because you can't think of any reason why Kate would be omitted from the wall doesn't mean there isn't one!

Perhaps we need to revisit the cave scene with more detail.

When they first enter, Sawyer asks what the place is, and Flocke does not respond. Flocke takes the white rock off the balanced scales (thus, tipping the scales in favour of black), and chucks it in the ocean. When Sawyer asks about this, Flocke responds "Inside Joke".

Sawyer gets pissed, and pushes Flocke to fulfill the promise of answers. They then move further into the cave.

"That James, is why you are all here" says Flocke, when James Ford first sees stalker Jacob's creepy name collection.

James asks "Why are all the names crossed out?"

Flocke replies "They're not all crossed out"

They then go over all the names not crossed out (with flashbacks of when Jacob made contact).

"23 - Shephard" - Sawyer confirms "that would be Jack Shepard".

Flocke responds "He's not the only one".
The torch then moves to "8 - Reyes". Then "16 - Jarrah". Then "42 - Kwon", to which Flocke adds that he does not know if this Sun or Jin. Next, is "4 - Locke". Flocke then says "last but not least", and shows "15-Ford".

Sawyer doubts he has ever met Jacob, but Flocke insists "I'm sure you did meet Jacob. At some point in your life James, probably when you were young, when you were miserable and vulnerable, he came to you. He manipulated you, pulled your strings like you were a puppet, and as a result, choices that you thought you made were never really choices at all. He was pushing you James... pushing you to the island."

Flocke then explains the whole candidate thingy, and crosses Locke's name out.

FYI - Flocke never actually said "all your friends are there" when discussing the cave wall/ceiling. The whole premise of going to the cave was to answer the question "Why are you on this island?" (which is how Flocke gets Sawyer to put on some pants).

What is clear is that for whatever reason, Kate's name is not included by Jacob. This either means she is not a candidate, or Jacob chose not to write her name for some reason.

If, as many have suspected, Jacob did anticipate that he would be killed, perhaps he did not include her name because he knew Flocke would eventually enter the cave, while trying to recruit people to his side. So much manipulation going on - hard to tell what is planned!

What is seen in the cave is not from Sawyer's point of view - it is from Flocke's, as he is the one who guides/shines the torch to each name, ending with the words "finally" when he comes to "Ford".

As mentioned - this could be big, this could be nothing - I agree with you - we will only know once they address it.

#158. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 5:24 PM

@154: I think that was a crab, not a spider

#159. Posted by: alexx at February 17, 2010 5:27 PM

@152 DJ Ativanex -
Ben was already on the island in 1977 though, as was his dad, who shot Sayid on the same day that they detonated the bomb.

IF the split takes place in 1977, Ben somehow survived, made it off the island, and became a European History teacher.

IF the split took place before 1977, then when did it take place?

Lostpedia has the first Dharma recruits arriving in 1972, including Roger & Ben Linus. The Dharma initative started in 1970. Since we see the Dharma houses underwater, it seems like the island would have to have been sunk after 1970. In order for Ben to have not been on the island it would have had to have sunk before 1972.

Unless in ATL the bomb restarted EVERYTHING, back to day 1. Events take place similar to MTL, but not the exact same. The Statue gets built, Dharma arrives on the island, etc.

In that case, Dharma could start in 1970 again, but this time Roger and Ben don't come to the island in 1972. So the barracks get built, the shark gets a logo, etc. But things happen differently than the MTL. And maybe something else sinks the island so that it is underwater in 2004.

I'll be curious to see how the writers plan to merge the timelines, if at all. Do the Losties continue to "reset" the island over and over until they finally get it right?

It only ends once, everything else is progress.

#160. Posted by: GFish at February 17, 2010 5:28 PM

Re: Alternate Timeline (ATL)

Most people seem to assume that the ATL starts with the non-crash of Oceanic 815. I think the ATL starts in 1977 when Juliet set off the bomb. The women/kids were being evacuated, which explains why Benjamin and Ethan are present in the ATL. It would explain why Locke is inviting his father to his wedding, and why Hurley isn't cursed in the ATL.

#161. Posted by: Lost@work at February 17, 2010 5:31 PM

@154 - While I would enjoy seeing Locke rise from the dead, that was a crab, not a spider, on his head.

#162. Posted by: The Duf at February 17, 2010 5:37 PM

@161. Posted by: Lost@work

I agree - 1977 seems the most logical.
With that said - it does not necessarily mean that the island was "nuked". For whatever contrived reason, the Swan site could have absorbed the actual blast/radiation, which resulted in the island sinking.

At this point, women and children have already been evacuated. Depending on how fast the island actually submerged itself, others (wink wink double meaning) could have escaped.

What is certain is that the island sunk some time after Dharma is on the island, which is why we see the ruins of Dharmaville.

In theory, it could have sunk some time after 1977 too, but I doubt it.

Looking forward to seeing more of Ben the school teacher, and his vague memories of a childhood somewhere on a tropical island...

#163. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 5:46 PM

the date on the ultrasound is usually the estimated due date of the baby based on it's size which makes sense if Claire's only got a month to go.

when the Flocke child apparition says "you can't kill him" because it's against the rules, I think it means that it's against the rules to kill a candidate.

I think the alternate timeline Losties are so different because it's the story of the Losties untouched by Jacob. Maybe he messed up their lives to get them to the island so they wouldn't want to leave to go back to their crappy lives.

#164. Posted by: julia goolia at February 17, 2010 5:56 PM

@ 108 & 115

I haven't read all the posts and don't know if someone has already said this, but I believe that Richard was refering to the purge where all of DHARMA was wiped out by the others. That's why he sais he saw them ALL die...

#165. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at February 17, 2010 5:56 PM

Didn't the guy who repeated the numbers to Hurley hear them during wartime? and wasn't that before any of the Oceanic numbered names were born?

#166. Posted by: julia goolia at February 17, 2010 6:05 PM

@154:
I'd love it if Locke was still alive, but I'm afraid it's wishful thinking. The spider scenario is kind of lame to begin with. Also, it was a crab on his head, not a spider. And even if it was a spider, why would the spider still be on his body, if he was poisoned by it before even returning to the Island? Furthermore, Ben is not that sloppy, he made sure John was dead.

It would be über awesome though, if he actually returns from the dead and crawls out of that grave.

#167. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 6:06 PM

Boodle 48:
"Can't really gauge what's up with Sawyer in the alt timeline...is he still a con...? Did killing the wrong man in Australia straighten him up...? Just wondering..."

If the alt timeline came into effect because Jacob never touched the Losties, then little Sawyer was never given the pen to write his letter to the man who killed his parents. He could have had a whole different life, and let all that bad stuff go like his uncle told him to at the funeral... Interesting thought, wonder how it'll play out...

If Locke was #4 then how does his death change things? He is the only one of The Numbers that's crossed out - that seems like it should be significant...

#168. Posted by: Jo at February 17, 2010 6:24 PM

Re: Lapidus:

Bram asked Iliana if she thought he was a candidate. She stated that he might be. We never got confirmation either way if Frank is one or not. If not, that would explain why we didn;t see his name on the cave wall. But even if he were, he could have become one since the last time Jacob went to the cave...maybe Jacob didn't get a chance to write his name there before he died. Or maybe he did and we just didn't see it.

Also, a lot has been made about all the BAD things Ben did in the name of Jacob, but how do we know Jacob actually ordered him to do those things? Ben never even MET Jacob, how much of his actions were Ben going rogue?

#169. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 17, 2010 6:32 PM

@151, Nicole: Yes. Repeatedly.

#170. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 17, 2010 6:37 PM

@167 by: Mischa

It would be über awesome though, if he actually returns from the dead and crawls out of that grave.
-----------
I think that crab, and all his crab buddies, have there lobster bibs on at this point. Crawl Dead Locke! Crawl!

#171. Posted by: SnidleyW at February 17, 2010 6:41 PM

@103 Cave Locke
Cave Locke = Clocke!?

@136 I vote for Jin

@154 YES! That would be totally epic-ally cool!

#172. Posted by: jms at February 17, 2010 6:46 PM

Just pondering the "Kwan 42" business and what it means for Sun and Jin in the alternate timeline - when they get stopped at customs at LAX, Sun is referred to as "Miss Paik" and doesn't appear to be wearing her wedding ring.

Theories??

#173. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 6:52 PM

Also didn't someone make a comment that Locke's body was getting kind of ripe? He's sadly dead.

#174. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 17, 2010 6:52 PM

@ 33 (Skipper) Definitely not a production error:

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/lost/video/-/watch/18186203/

#175. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 7:00 PM

@173. Posted by: JJ

My understanding is that Korean women traditionally keep their family name after marriage. As for the wedding ring - many people take this off when flying.

With that said - perhaps they are not married in the Alt universe. Jin still seems to be working for Paik - would he send him with his daughter if they were not married?

#176. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 7:00 PM

@175. Posted by: JJ

"This video is not available in your location"

Booooooooooo!

#177. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 7:03 PM

@~~~~~~~~

@24 Steve (or was it Scott?) asked:

>All I want to know is this... How the heck does Locke drive? If he can't walk and is stuck in a wheelchair, how'd he just whip home from the airport, and get back and forth to work? Is there something about driving while handicapped that I just don't know of?

There are handicapped-capable vans that allow the driver to steer, brake, and accelerate all by hand control, and that have ramps just like the one we saw that enable the driver to roll back to the sliding door and lower himself out of/raise himself into the floor level.


@~~~~~~~~

@42 Scooby-Dude commented:

>Oh, and one small thing: Helen is dead, or at least Abaddon "revealed" to Locke that Helen had died earlier in 2004.

Of course we never actually *saw* her die. Maybe Widmore just wanted Locke to *think* she was dead for reasons, perhaps, of not letting him have any ties that would keep him from wanting to return to the island. And remember that was in 2007. Anyone know what the death date on her tombstone was, given that last night's scene was in 2004?

@~~~~~~~~

@46 davidrh anticipated:

>(I sure hope Meg and Cecil can get along from now on . . . It must be Olympic fever that has them staying up late, racing for first place and the "____ is first" Gold Medal!)

Actually I was on my way to bed and thought I'd see what the last posts in the "What Kate Does" blog were, when to my surprise the new one was posted already. I appointed myself the 'honorary Meg' and posted, not realizing she would be right behind me or I'd have stepped aside and allowed 'Ladies First'.

>So what is the national anthem of the island?

"Ajira Uber Alles"?
"Let's Call the whole Thing Off"?
"Try to Remember the Times of September (2004)"?
"Some Enchanted Island"?
"What is That Voodoo That You Do So Well"?
"South Pacific"?
"I'm a Cranky Old Yank, in a Clanky Old Hatch, and I'm On My Way to LAX"?

@~~~~~~~~

@51 PegLegRider asked:

>2)What is up w/that spooky goofy chick that was interviewing Locke at the temp agency?

Just a little satire, I think, on typical HR people.

@~~~~~~~~

@61 Mischa wondered:

>If Locke is number 4, who are 1,2 and 3?

You are number six!

@~~~~~~~~

@76 drew458

You beat me to it!

@~~~~~~~~

@82 shikotee:

Agreed on all points.

@~~~~~~~~

@93 Donnie speculated:

>wasn't the blond kid one of the children stolen by the Others in Season One? Specifically, wasn't he the boy in the Pilot episode standing with the little girl on the beach looking for their parents? Then they were approached by the stewardess seen last week in the temple? I'm terrible with names, but I'm sure that's them...

We already saw that boy (who was from one of the Tailies episodes, probably "The Other 48 Days") in the Temple bringing food to the Losties. (Zack, I think his name was). He'd only be three years older in 2007, much younger that the blond in the jungle.

@~~~~~~~~

@102 Prosecutor67 said:

>@ Cecil #8

>Thinking Adam and Eve could be Jin and Sun now are we...Jury's still out for me as to those two.

Nope, that's not the "already seen them reunited" I'm thinking of.

@~~~~~~~~

#178. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 7:05 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned yet ...

Can't help but wonder if Flocke was lying to Sawyer about "Ford" in the cave referring to him ...

makes me wonder if Kate & Sawyer are destined to be married, and "Ford" refers to Kate, so her name would be on the wall after all.

In which case Sawyer's not a Jacob candidate, just a MIB tool. Based upon Richard's warning to Sawyer, I'm guessing something about the big reveal in the cave isn't exactly true, and this could be the wrinkle.

#179. Posted by: ealgumby at February 17, 2010 7:06 PM

@ 107 Lostsoul

Certainly looks like Des! That is, when Locke gets his big bald noggin out of the way long enough to see it. Judging by the other posters in the room, which are largely of the inspirational-job-seeking variety, it would seem it is just another piece of office decoration....

#180. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 7:08 PM

@175 JJ gave us a link:

Thanks for tthe link, but when I try it I get "This video is not available in your location."

#181. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 17, 2010 7:08 PM

I looked up the Biblical meanings of the numbers that are now linked to Locke-4, Reyes-8, Ford-15, Jarrah-16, Kwon-42 & Shephard-23. I got this off the internet. Meanings differ per website so these are loose translations....

4--Refers to all that is created. Four is the number of all things that have a beginning. Four dimensions contain all we can experience; length, width, height and time. The fourth dimension, time, is separated from the rest in that we only have a limited movement through time compared to the other dimensions

8--Eight is seven plus one; it is the start of a new order, the beginning of a new era. It represents regeneration, new beginning. (Seven represents this perfect completeness and also it represents rest. One represents unity, it excludes all differences for there is no second with which it can either harmonize or conflict)

15--Refers to a new direction, redirection--However fifteen is also the sum of seven and eight, two very significant numbers as noted above. Fifteen is often seen where new life or resurrection are featured and is associated with a world cleansed of the violence and sin of the old world

16--Sixteen represents the power of Love: devotion, commitment, sacrifice.

42--loose translation: In opposition or opposing to the will of God.

23--I found 2 meanings here that were pretty opposite:
#1 Twenty three represents prosperity, abundance, wealth, fruitful life.
#2 Death, redemption through death, cursing turned to blessing.

Interesting???

#182. Posted by: Lostie at February 17, 2010 7:11 PM

@ 177 Shikotee

Sorry dude, must only be available to in Australia. I'll try to find the video elsewhere, but all it reveals is a close-up shot of Claire's ultrasound with the date (D: 10-22-2004) on it, then the message:

"Does D stand for Claire's Due Date - Or Today's Date?"

#183. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 7:20 PM

I think Flocke is a prisoner on the island. And I wonder if it works like it does in the old story of the incarcerated devil...he is in a cell with a closed but unlocked door, but cannot open the door himself, he has to have someone open it for him. Vampires work the same way...they cannot enter your house unless they are invited.

Otherwise, why does Flocke need Sawyer's assistance to escape the island? Why does he need anyone's assistance? If he knows how to get off the island why doesn't he just go? Because he can't; he has to be released.

Flocke is clearly misrepresenting things in an attempt to manipulate Sawyer; his characterization of Jacob having manipulated Sawyer as a child is askew. Jacob offered kind words to a distraught child.

I don't think Claire is dead.

#184. Posted by: undauntid at February 17, 2010 7:37 PM

A couple of things. It may be a small point, but people keep talking about the "bomb" denotating. Remember it wasn't "the" bomb, it was only the triggering device from within the bomb. Still a pretty good explosion, but "The" bomb would have pretty much vaporized a large part of the island.

It's rather amazing how Sawyer sobbered up so fast, it's important that Flocke didn't drink, only tasted.

Question, could Flock had stopped a bullet if he didn't know it was coming? And, if Flocke and Jacob are equal opposites, why was a knife able to penetrate Jacob, but bullets flatten out on Flocke. An answer, Jacob allowed himself to be stabbed, a sacrifice was made (to be explained latter is my guess) and the body (as in the OT and Egyptian sacrifices) burned and the ashes (which are important, see Numbers 19:9) are retained. Please also note about the ashes Jacobs were white and the ash used to keep the Smoke Monster away is always black.

Flocke crossed through Locke's name on the ceiling, that may or may not be an important fact. Has he crossed off all of the names? Is that parts of his job in the "rules?"

Flocke's angry outburst to the boy regarding the rules, "Don't tell me what I can and cannot do." Seems to indicate that Flocke is considering doing something that breaks the rules or that at least he could be pushed into doing so. What is the outcome of "breaking the rules"? In Highlander for instance, there is one reference to an immortal "breaking the rules" and taking a head on holy ground, the result, the eruption of Vesuvius.

At the end, a little irony, on the Island Flocke is looking for a substitute, in the ALT Locke is a substitute.

#185. Posted by: Dennis at February 17, 2010 7:39 PM

@183. Posted by: JJ

While not 100% certain, i thought it was clarified by the production team that there was a date error. Anyone?

#186. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 7:51 PM

Re: #46 - The national anthem of the island is "Back to the Island" by Leon Russell. One of my favorite songs because I am a BOI (different island). Come to think of it, so are Miles, Aaron, and Ethan.

#187. Posted by: tesla at February 17, 2010 8:01 PM

Can't remember if there's ever been a comment on this. My husband was reminded last night of the 1977 horror movie "The Sentinel" about the protector of the gates of hell. The themes seem similar. Has anyone heard of it?

#188. Posted by: Laurie at February 17, 2010 8:05 PM

4th best line - "He's getting pretty ripe" - Frank J. Lapidus

#189. Posted by: vacc at February 17, 2010 8:13 PM

So.... was Locke the only one who was visited by Richard when he was younger? How does that play into all of this? Was Richard sent by Jacob? The MIB?

#190. Posted by: Keluha at February 17, 2010 8:14 PM

Two posts really made me laugh when they used the phrase "my only questions is..." As for me, I have questions that I don't even know how to formulate!

Here are somethings I'm pondering. Sayid's first act on the island was to build the bonfire so that they could get off the island. One of the first things that happened to John Locke was he fell in love with the island. Sayid has no recollection of his death. Flocke remembers Locke's death. It is also weird that Flocke uses the same "Don't tell me what I can and can't do" line that Locke is famous for. Didn't Locke use that line even as a teen before he ever fell from the window? Flocke is more like Locke than Locke. Revived Sayid isn't much like our old Sayid.

#191. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at February 17, 2010 8:17 PM

@ 182 Lostie

The numbers stuff is interesting. I kinda connect all the meanings to the characters but Kwon-42 and especially Shepard-23 don't really seem to fit. Maybe that's part of the loose translation thing you were talking about.

Did anyone else have thoughts about Lostie's post at #182?

#192. Posted by: gg at February 17, 2010 8:17 PM

I think Locke skipped out on the conference in Sydney to go see Isaac of Uluru. Just like Rose, Isaac probably couldn't help him.

#193. Posted by: Trinity at February 17, 2010 8:19 PM

I think the numbers thing is interesting but I got started Googling around and searched for how to sink an island. One way, besides global warming raising water levels, seems to be to bomb coral reefs supporting the island.

#194. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at February 17, 2010 8:23 PM

@185 Dennis Pointed out:

>It may be a small point, but people keep talking about the "bomb" denotating. Remember it wasn't "the" bomb, it was only the triggering device from within the bomb. Still a pretty good explosion, but "The" bomb would have pretty much vaporized a large part of the island.

Totally agreed. The trigger of an H-Bomb is an A-Bomb, 500 to 1000 times less powerful. It irritates me when fans and reviewers call it an H-Bomb when it wasn't.

Of course the show contributes to the confusion by having Faraday announce "I'm going to detonate a Hydrogen Bomb." which, according to Sayid's reading of his notes, he totally WASN'T.

Even if it had been the more powerful Hydrogen Bomb, it couldn't come close to "blowing the island away" much less sinking it with the surface intact.

Castle Bravo was a 15 Megaton H-bomb, about the largest the US ever produced. The Castle Bravo nuclear device, exploded on an atoll in the Pacific on March 1, 1954 created a crater 6500 feet wide. This was in a flat level coral atoll only a few feet above sea level in the first place. The Lost island is maybe twenty miles long by ten or so wide, and has elevations of several thousand feet. Even an H-Bomb could make only a dent in a mass that large, much less an A-Bomb.

#195. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 8:26 PM

184. Posted by: undauntid

re: Flocke is a prisoner on the island

We thought Ben was the master of misdirection, but he is more the king of lies. Flocke is the true master of misdirection and manipulation. Unlike Ben, he does not seem to directly lie - he just knows which buttons to press.

Flocke has powers, but he has to stick to the rules. His salvation can only be obtained via the actions of others. I think one reason he can't leave the island is because he does not have a body. Perhaps this is why Jacob could leave the island - he actually still had a body. Now that he is dead, maybe he can't. If the young boy is a young Jacob, perhaps he is now limited to the tricks smokey has pulled off (impersonation).

I do find the Locke/Sawyer/Cooper parallel with Flocke/Sawyer interesting. We still need an explanation of why Locke had to kill Cooper. Unable to do it, he gets Sawyer to do it. Flocke is unable to kill Jacob, and gets Ben to do it. Now Flocke is working his manipulative mojo on Sawyer.

@185. Posted by: Dennis

Valid points about the partial bomb!

Yeah - i noticed Flocke did not drink. I think we've seen him drink water, and he certainly ate a mango. Reminded me how Christian couldn't help Locke get up to turn the frozen donkey wheel.

I'm not sure if Flocke/Jacob are equals - they are opposing forces. As mentioned, I think Flocke was once mortal (as he himself suggested), but lost his body when he became smokey. It was only through his scheme that Flocke regained the use of a body, and for whatever reason, he is now stuck with it (if you believe Ilana). Now that Jacob has lost his body, he seems to be demonstrating the abilities smokey has (ie. dead people appearing). Naturally, maybe he could do this when he still had a body?

#196. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 8:28 PM

One thing people may be overlooking: Jacob and MIB may be there to keep the scales even (good vs. evil ; destiny vs. free will) but the island protector Jacob is looking to replace may be replacing Linus/Locke. Ben came back to the island illegally and Locke is dead who was the next leader of the others. I think THAT position is the protector or maybe even possibly the one above Jacob and MIB. I just think that they are there to provide a service separate from the protector.

#197. Posted by: Sanderson at February 17, 2010 8:33 PM

@190 Keluha asked:

>So.... was Locke the only one who was visited by Richard when he was younger?

Kate was visited as an equally young girl while shoplifting a 'New Kids on the Block' lunchbox at the corner store.

#198. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 8:33 PM

very good review mac,
you touched on many important topics in this episode including "the rules"
siblings never get to make the rules, only parents get to make these choices,
im not sure if jacob & fake locke are brothers but i do know 1 thing,
these guys are not ultimately in charge.

#199. Posted by: san at February 17, 2010 8:39 PM

I got a little confused, I must admit. It's the first time though, because I've always been able to keep the timelines straight before. But, wasn't Locke, fake Locke, in the "real" time with Jin, and then he went to Sawyer's time. Don't know, but it bugs me.

#200. Posted by: meg at February 17, 2010 8:42 PM

For chuckles and giggles, check out the results of the Lost photoshop contest @AckAttack:

http://tinyurl.com/ydg54dh

I liked Dogen Ono!!!

#201. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 8:45 PM

This might have already been cleared up... And I'm doing something that I hate when Other people do this... I'm going to post something with out reading all the previous post. Some people are speculating that the date on the ultrasound is a typo or a mistake. Its not, When the plane crashed in the first season Claire was 7mo pregnant. In this new time line she is 36wks pregnant = 8mo.

#202. Posted by: natasha at February 17, 2010 8:53 PM

oh, and it wasn't the true meg posting second. Imposters be darned!!!

I know Kate's name wasn't on the wall, but remember she was also excluded from the group in the beginning by someone saying she was bad, a murderer, whatever it was. Perhaps this makes her stand apart from the group somehow???

#203. Posted by: meg at February 17, 2010 8:57 PM

@194 Sayidisn'tso "I think the numbers thing is interesting but I got started Googling around and searched for how to sink an island. One way, besides global warming raising water levels, seems to be to bomb coral reefs supporting the island. "

I hope you don't get a visit from Homeland Security. I don't think that's a good thing to google in this day and age...;-)

#204. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 17, 2010 8:58 PM

@198 -> Cecil answered: >So.... was Locke the only one who was visited by Richard when he was younger?

Kate was visited as an equally young girl while shoplifting a 'New Kids on the Block' lunchbox at the corner store.

She was visited by Richard? I thought it was Jacob who was there when she was taking the lunch box ... totally cool lunch box by the way; I believe I had one of those ;)

#205. Posted by: Keluha at February 17, 2010 9:03 PM

RNM said: I would have lost my shizznit if on the cave wall it said, #1 - MIF

That is so awesome. We need a mock-up of the cave wall with our names.

I miss bcre8ve :(
~~Wishing him well~~

******

Nomination for best new moniker: Hurley's Beard

******

GRAA, Mac. "What would happen if these people weren't crazyballs?"
Uh, you wouldn't have such great blog fodder, for one thing. ;)

******

Will alt-Jack lose the "dys" in his functional next week? Is that even possible?

#206. Posted by: Clementine at February 17, 2010 9:17 PM

I think Cecil mentioned previously that he is a big fan of Nikki Stafford, and the Lost books that she writes.

I'll admit - I'm a fan of her blog. She blogs about other shows, and who's kidding who - I gots to support a fellow Torontonian.

In any case - just read an interesting speculative theory that I wanted to share entitled "Not-Locke = Jacob?"

http://tinyurl.com/ye2vzle

I'm intrigued because it also addresses the possible issues related to losing a body. Also - some good spec on the young boy...

#207. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 9:29 PM

@205 Keluha corrected:

>She was visited by Richard? I thought it was Jacob who was there when she was taking the lunch box ... totally cool lunch box by the way; I believe I had one of those ;)

Oops, excuse me, you're right. I misread the question.

#208. Posted by: Cecil at February 17, 2010 9:40 PM

@207 shikotee mentioned:

>I think Cecil mentioned previously that he is a big fan of Nikki Stafford, and the Lost books that she writes.

And I just got her guide to Season 3 through interlibrary loan. Four and Five in the works. Thanks for the URL. I didn't know she had a blog until reading her intro to the S-3 gude an hour ago.

#209. Posted by: Cecil Rose at February 17, 2010 9:44 PM

Ok, how about this.

The side flash is the REAL time line. The one that the universe has been trying to correct back to. When Jacob first started picking people to come to the island - out of time - THEY screwed things up. the Time line needs to be corrected from WAY back and all the people who had been manipulated had their REAL time line disturbed. So the whole six seasons we have been watching have been wrong and not real. The side flash is the way the world SHOULD HAVE been without the interfering Island duo.
So whatever happened happened, But it happened a long time ago.
And MIB could be a Bionic .Part man part machine. the Security system for the island.

#210. Posted by: berkyo at February 17, 2010 9:45 PM

Ben was only really sorry that he murdered Locke because it allowed MIB to manipulate him to kill Jacob.

#211. Posted by: berkyo at February 17, 2010 9:47 PM

for me it feels like season 6 has really kicked off now,
double season opener was fantastic but lacking in clarity,
we all held our breath waiting for the next installment & were treated to a mediocre kate-centric episode, which was ok in parts,
now we have this new episode which "spoils" us lost fans,
we have some answers,
i expect this to be a long & drawn out affair to find out more but this episode was a step forward.

#212. Posted by: san at February 17, 2010 10:14 PM

@209. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Her blog is awesome! Actually, it was via Nikki's blog that I found out about AckAttack, and shared it with you folks last season.

Been following off and on for years, but never got around to commenting there. Crazy how big her blog has grown over the years!

Wow - its got to be weird reading the older books now, when you have knowledge from the future....

#213. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 10:19 PM

Lastly - Cecil, as you were doing some re-watching, you might be interested in checking out her Lost re-watch blog.

Between S5 and S6, she re-watched and re-blogged on all episodes of Lost.

I must admit, while I had meant to follow along, I didn't.

No Lost for me during the off-season!

http://tinyurl.com/ycymcqr

#214. Posted by: shikotee at February 17, 2010 10:29 PM

Hey there all you "crabby" folks, LostPedia has stated that it was a spider seen by DeadLocke's ear.

#215. Posted by: freckles at February 17, 2010 10:49 PM

In season three when the hatch blew up, we heard the same loud noise and flash of light..did the island move in time then may be by a month...is that the reason the date in the ultrasound is 10/2004 instead of 9/2004?

#216. Posted by: Jag at February 17, 2010 10:49 PM

I just rewatched last season's finale and it occurred to me that the boy that FLocke sees is probably one of the "they" Jacob refers to when he says "They're coming." I think it makes more sense than the Ajira folks, because FLocke doesn't seem too frightened of them, and more sense than the people Jacob touched (Jack, Kate, etc.) since FLocke seems pretty safe around them too (Sawyer).

So, I'm guessing that the boy is probably one of several entities that are coming to the island and who are at least as powerful as FLocke.

#217. Posted by: CDog at February 17, 2010 11:01 PM

John Locke in alt timeline is shaking hands - Touching a la Jacob - the islanders...Boone, Jack, Hurley, Rose, Ben

#218. Posted by: Lostie at February 17, 2010 11:39 PM

Lots of posts debating Kate, Lapidus, et al, exclusion from the cave wall of names.

Regarding my post @14 with the list of names, based on the numbering system, there were at least 350 names on the ceiling- I was able to decipher about 35 or 10%, and that was with frame by frame analysis in HD.

The truth is we weren't shown the overwhelming majority of names on the ceiling, so it's pure conjecture at this point to argue about who might be missing and why.

The key points from what we were shown: the names represented people called to the island, and includes groups that previously were believed to have "stumbled" across the island- including the US Army, the Dharma Initiative, the Rousseau team, etc.

Going back to the Jacob-MIB scene at what may be the arrival of the Black Rock, I think there's a strong suggestion that the island is only accessible at Jacob's bidding and choosing.

This would help explain why Widmore, once banished, can never go back- even when he correctly located the island's whereabouts.

Secondly, even if Smokey was less than 100% honest with Sawyer in the cave, his explanation of the numbers- candidates selected by Jacob to come protect the island- fits very well with past revelations about the numbers as the Valenzetti Equation, as well as Faraday's "Variable" speech that convinced Jack to take Jughead to the Swan.

Third, every crossed out name that we can identify is dead. This supports the idea that Claire is dead (or Undead), while Sayid (not crossed out yet) is still in the process of crossing over to the other side.

The other big debate over this episode was when the alternate timeline was created. At this point, we have nothing to go on except for after 1970 (when Dharma was created) and before 2004 (when the Oceanic flight flew over).

Ben being off-island is not a clue, because in the alternate timeline, Ben may have never been on the island. Who knows what the ripple effects might be?

We've already be shown what happens in the Jughead/Incident timeline- they foom forward to 2007- island still afloat, all memories still intact. Whatever happened to the island in the alt world, it doesn't seem like it was caused in '77 by Jughead's detonation.

#219. Posted by: Mizouni at February 18, 2010 12:16 AM

#158. Posted by: shikotee (Giligan)

Keep the awesome posts coming!! Let’s wait and see what comes of the whole Kate’s not on the wall thing. I get your point(s). What I was trying to say – Mizouni said better than me @ 219:

“Regarding my post @14 with the list of names, based on the numbering system, there were at least 350 names on the ceiling- I was able to decipher about 35 or 10%, and that was with frame by frame analysis in HD.

The truth is we weren't shown the overwhelming majority of names on the ceiling, so it's pure conjecture at this point to argue about who might be missing and why.

The key points from what we were shown: the names represented people called to the island, and includes groups that previously were believed to have "stumbled" across the island- including the US Army, the Dharma Initiative, the Rousseau team, etc.”

#220. Posted by: Skipper at February 18, 2010 1:03 AM

#175. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 7:00 PM

@ 33 (Skipper) Definitely not a production error:

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/lost/video/-/watch/18186203/

AND

#183. Posted by: JJ at February 17, 2010 7:20 PM
Sorry dude, must only be available to in Australia. I'll try to find the video elsewhere, but all it reveals is a close-up shot of Claire's ultrasound with the date (D: 10-22-2004) on it, then the message:
"Does D stand for Claire's Due Date - Or Today's Date?"

you posted the video in response to my post # 33 which says:

Observation: Helen said that the wedding was in October, this confirms that Claire's ultra sound we saw last week had a mistaken date of 10/22/04 (production error - which is what I suspected). The events we watched last night (Locke losing his job, Hugo talking to him, Rose giving him a job, etc.) happened sometime between 9/22/04 and 9/30/04.

now, how does your video make my post wrong? And how can you use the word “Definitely” in season 6? Nothing is definite in this show! Please see the attached link below and read what Gregg Nations (who works for ABC) said about the date on the ultrasound. It’s a production error and a bit of a clue.

http://tinyurl.com/yga7rhn

#221. Posted by: Skipper at February 18, 2010 1:05 AM

Hey ilovebenjaminlinusxx (and everyone else) - did y'all catch your man on Jimmy Kimmel Tues night? He freaks me out every time he smiles. It's hard to imagine him as a comedian!
And now for a bit of humor amidst all this life and death discussion - did anyone else notice that Hurley's parking job would make it just as impossible for Hurley to get out of his SUV as it would be for Locke to get into his van? A nice excuse for the two characters to interact, but there was NO WAY that Hurley was going to squeeze his body out of the space between the two vehicles.

#222. Posted by: jaybee at February 18, 2010 8:18 AM

@ #105 Greg I think they were a bit over-the-top with the whole look-how-pathetic-crippled-Locke-is thing. Yes, we're supposed to feel bad for him but his wheel chair lift breaks, he falls on his face, and then the sprinklers turn on? A bit heavy-handed in my opinion.

I think that scene was to show us how Locke had come to terms with his inabilities (the "you can't do this") and that he "can't" do some things. He's fallen out of his van/chair and while he's still trying to figure out how to get out of this, sprinklers turn on. I noticed that he kind of chuckled and "gave in" whereas the Locke that we knew before might have punched a hole in the ground below him due to frustrations about his limitations.

#223. Posted by: Boodle at February 18, 2010 8:22 AM

@ #206. Posted by: Clementine

******
Nomination for best new moniker: Hurley's Beard
******

Thank you for thumbs up on my new screen name. I was going a "steve" for the last two seasons, and the first two episodes of this season, but I noticed that someone else named "Steve" (Capitol S) was also posting. After this last episode, the vision of the chops was prominent in my mind.

#224. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 18, 2010 9:51 AM

#224:

You join good company because very early in this blog "Mulhausen11" changed to the notorious . . . Red....Neck...Man.

Who became so famous he actually found a wife!

#225. Posted by: davidrh at February 18, 2010 10:22 AM

I posted earlier about how the bomb could have sunk the island because Faraday would have never told the Others to bury it... can anyone remember what year that was during the flashes? After hearing a little more on the power of an H-Bomb and A-Bomb, I'm beginning to think I may have been off a little but it was worth a shot.

Also, with discussion related to Claire's sonogram... did anyone notice the name of the hospital she was at?
It was "Angel of Mercy Hospital."

Significance? I'm not sure, it could be referring to her... maybe Aaron... even a clue back to our good old friends Jacob and MIB.

Perhaps Jacob being the Angel of Mercy and MIB being the Angel of Death? This would mean that they are essentially on the same team but they have polar opposite views on how things should be settled (Yin Yang).

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts...

#226. Posted by: csmithfdub at February 18, 2010 11:11 AM

Also, I forgot to mention that someone had commented earlier about the dates on her sonogram being a production error... on some other website I found while googling... Gregg Nations has said that is it a little of both... a clue in fact. He states that 2 of the numbers are a clue, and one is a mistake. Any thoughts?

Also, The Angel of Mercy's name in theology is Gabriel and The Angel of Death's is Micheal. This whole "Johnny" clue from Darlton is throwing me for a loop and I wonder if either of those names in a Different language could match up?

#227. Posted by: csmithfdub at February 18, 2010 11:17 AM

I always enjoy reading your recap.

"it's unclear if "Kwon" refers to Sun or Jin"

Did you know in Korea women keep their surname after marriage? I am not sure what Sun's surname was before marriage. "Kwon" is a pretty common name in Korea (I think, I am Japanese). Does anyone know? Or is this just a cultural oversight on the producers?

#228. Posted by: Yoko at February 18, 2010 11:43 AM

@#226. Posted by: csmithfdub

"I posted earlier about how the bomb could have sunk the island because Faraday would have never told the Others to bury it... can anyone remember what year that was during the flashes? -
I think it was 1954 - September

"After hearing a little more on the power of an H-Bomb and A-Bomb, I'm beginning to think I may have been off a little but it was worth a shot."

Remember Jughead was a two stage cryogenic thermonuclear device. The "Atom" bomb, Jack drops in the Swan hole was a thermal fuse/catalyst for the hydrogen (Liquid Deuterium)bomb. The two combined for a heck of blast (I thing rated at 15Mt) .

#229. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 18, 2010 11:43 AM

@#228. Posted by: Yoko
"Did you know in Korea women keep their surname after marriage? I am not sure what Sun's surname was before marriage."

I think her name is Paik

#230. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 18, 2010 11:45 AM

There seems to be a cyclical thing going on where the plane crashes, they do the time travel thing, bury the bomb, the bomb sinks the island, the plane then never crashes.
With the island sunk and the plane not crashing, they don't time travel and the bomb doesn't get buried. then the island doesn't sink and the plane crashes again. Cycle repeats.
This seems to work until considering how they could have ended up in 2007 on the island. Maybe something they do in the 2004 timeline resets things so they end up in 2007. Therefore the 2007 scenes we are seeing are the end of the series and not the 2004 scenes. All the flashes of recognition people are having in 2004 when looking in mirrors etc... could be progress toward breaking the cycle and allowing them to end up where they should be in 2007.
Who frigging knows?

#231. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 18, 2010 11:50 AM

#228. Posted by: Yoko at February 18, 2010 11:43 AM
I always enjoy reading your recap.

"it's unclear if "Kwon" refers to Sun or Jin"

Did you know in Korea women keep their surname after marriage? I am not sure what Sun's surname was before marriage. "Kwon" is a pretty common name in Korea (I think, I am Japanese). Does anyone know? Or is this just a cultural oversight on the producers?


Paik. Sun's last name was Paik as in Mr. Paik, her father and Paik industries, his company and the company that Jin worked for. It's pretty important to the show - you're gonna wanna remember that.

#232. Posted by: Skipper at February 18, 2010 11:53 AM

It was a typical Ben move to confess to Locke's murder in front of Ilana, Sun and Lapidus. It's already obvious to all of them that he is a baaad man anyway. This way, at least he comes across as sincere, someone who has seen the error of his ways and is not afraid to share such a horrible secret because of it. That may give him some more credibility with them later on.

Ofcourse he is not being sincere. Sure, he liked Locke in some ways. He has spent a lot of time with him and they have been through a lot together. But Locke was always a tool to Ben, untill he became a threat. A few days ago, he was already planning to kill Locke again, even before knowing that it wasn't really Locke at all.

He always lies, it's just what he does best. Another example that I love, is when Richard states that Locke may become a problem, and Ben replies: why do you think I tried to kill him? Again, a lie. He killed him because he was still thinking that Locke was his replacement as leader of the Others, not to protect Jacob or his people.


------------------------------------------

I think Richard somehow betrayed Jacob in the past. He chose Jacob's side initially, but eventually did something to upset Jacob (maybe he was tricked into doing that by MIB) and was kept out of the loop from then on. For years now, he has been ashamed and afraid to face Jacob, only picking up notes that Jacob left for him from time to time.

Now, with Jacob gone (presumably), and MIB threatening the Temple, he is in panic. He knows that it is up to him now to step up and protect the Island, saving Jacob's legacy.

#233. Posted by: Mischa at February 18, 2010 12:12 PM

I don't know if anyone on the board touched on this because I'm at work and couldn't read everything. BUT, did anyone else notice that the characters whose names were still not crossed off (Reyes-8, Ford-15, Jarrah-16, Shephard-23, Kwon-42 & the recently crossed off Locke-4) not only were the numbers that Hurley won the lottery with, but were the numbers that Desmond had to input every 108 minutes at the Swan?

This just makes me an even firmer believer that everything that has happened hasn't been destiny at all; it was all Jacobs purposeful doing/planning. So! Desmond was SUPPOSED to stop inputting the numbers and have those particular numbers/people arrive at the island.

Further, it makes me think that Locke never had a chance on the island because, as you all know, he was the "everything-that's-happening-is-fate guy."

By bringing Locke to the island, Jacob gave Smokey/Man in Black the opportunity to take advantage of Locke. Isn't Jacob supposed to know everything? Why would he bring someone like Locke to the island if it had the possibility of leading to his [and Locke's] ultimate demise?

...or maybe Jacob knew he and Locke were supposed to die?

#234. Posted by: m-class at February 18, 2010 12:21 PM

MAC! Great review, enjoyed it a lot as usual.

You all are awesome. Glad I perused the posts before I wrote because everything I wanted to say has already been covered ten fold.

I'm really enjoying the alt-timeline. Seeing the Losties in normal lives with actual good luck is pretty cool.

I want more explanation from Miles about exactly what he saw/heard when he knelt over Juliet's grave. Obviously he could tell she's not dead, or sense that she's alive but faraway, or sense that something just isn't right... isn't what he normally deals with in terms of dead people.

I can't wait to see how the alt-timelines get pulled together!

#235. Posted by: JoePike at February 18, 2010 12:40 PM

We saw in one of the previous episodes that Michael couldn't be killed when he finally made it off the island? He was bulletproof!

So how was John Locke killed when he finally made it off the island? or was the little blonde kid talking about John Locke when he told "Smokie" that he couldn't kill "HIM"?

#236. Posted by: JBush at February 18, 2010 1:35 PM

When did we see that Ben was bulletproof?

#237. Posted by: Rudy at February 18, 2010 1:37 PM

Also, Let us not forget that Ben Linus went through the same "fountain of youth" healing that Sayid did when he was a young kid. So did the infection take over Ben as well which is why he is so evil now?

#238. Posted by: JBush at February 18, 2010 1:38 PM

Ben wasn't bulletproof...Michael was.

#239. Posted by: JBush at February 18, 2010 1:40 PM

Right! Tom "Mr. Friendly" told Michael he couldn't die until the island was finished with him. Then Christian told him he "could go now".
So I guess the island was done with Locke, or did MIB over ride that rule and influence Ben to kill Locke?

#240. Posted by: Rudy at February 18, 2010 1:51 PM

When I saw the writing of the cave - I couldn't help but think of Mr. Eko's stick. The numbers were on that stick - the word Revelations - were on that stick. Could there be a connection to the stick and to the cave?

What really happened to Mr. Eko and why?

#241. Posted by: TS at February 18, 2010 2:03 PM

I just rewatched the episode and, yes, as was noticed by an earlier poster:

Locke's suit turned from brown when Flocke stomped past with Richard over his shoulder to dark blue in this episode.

But I'm not alarmed. Afterall: According to Stacy and Clinton . . .

Brown is soooo last year!

#242. Posted by: davidrh at February 18, 2010 2:05 PM

One thing that popped into my mind when I saw the phrase "23-Shephard" is Psalms 23 which starts out "The lord is my shephard, I shall not want..."

This could just be a coincidence but then again all of this seems very bible related.

#243. Posted by: JBush at February 18, 2010 2:07 PM

Long time reader/lurker/benefactor/lover of this great great Blog.

@233 I have to agree the a great redemption awaits Ben. His lifelong service to Jacob and the Island will not go unrewarded

I cannot wait for a RA centric episode. I suspect some sort of proposal from Esau/Flocke to woo Richard to his side and wonder what sacrafice RA will have to make... maybe becoming mortal again? I do worry that a RA centric episode will leave me wanting more based on Producer comments Lindelof: "We've been coming up against what we call the chicken and the egg conundrum, which is every time we answer a question, there's two questions left in its wake. So we have to decide where we draw the line. So if the question is, "Are we going to learn more about Richard? Are we going to see his origin story?", the answer is, we would be remiss if we were not to present that. But if we were to say, "Are we going to definitively answer all these mysteries regarding Richard?", it's literally impossible to do."

Also, I wanted to point out that for anyone with a Netflix account, every episode up to this season is available for streaming. I have been using/abusing that feature to feed my addiction and fill time between the new episodes. Its nice to be able to wonder if I saw what I think I saw in a previous season and hop on the internet and confirm that.

Great stuff folks.

#244. Posted by: Egyptian Magician at February 18, 2010 2:14 PM

#242. Posted by: davidrh
But I'm not alarmed. Afterall: According to Stacy and Clinton . . .

Brown is soooo last year!
***********
I needed that. It was worth clicking "refresh" over and over again for the last 2 hours, hoping that something of value would be posted so that my day can be complete. I like to end on a good note.

#245. Posted by: Skipper at February 18, 2010 2:19 PM

I thought this was a rather weak Locke-centric episode. The LA X alternative story line is getting more tedious and contrived; like making New Yorker Rose a headhunter for Hurley in LA.

The inconsistent treatment of the stated "rules" within the story line is getting troublesome. There are so many vague rules that there may be no real rules at all.

Ilana stated that Flocke could no longer change, he was stuck in that body, but we have seen him change into Smokey. Is it because Dead Locke real body was buried that seals MIB into Flocke? Well, Alex was buried when she showed up to scold Ben, and we have not seen her again. And we have Dead Claire running around the island at the same time as Flocke.

I went back and reviewed when the freighter soldiers blew up Claire's house in the raid. Sawyer went through the rubble and found her. It was after that when Ben summoned Smokey to attack the soldiers. Claire witnessed the attack. From that time line, we can only assume that Dead Claire is possessed by something other than Smokey. Or that every single fatality is possessed by a Smokey: Christian, Sayid, Locke, Alex, Rousseau's crew. The island's original inhabitants were not the Others but a colony of Smokeys.

#246. Posted by: welh at February 18, 2010 2:25 PM

Since the following Losties are assigned "The Numbers" as follows:

4 - Locke
8 – Reyes
15 – Ford
16 – Jarrah
23 – Shepard
42 – Kwon

Does that make them Constants?

If so, maybe Kate, Juliete, Miles, Daniel, Charlote ... are all variables.

#247. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at February 18, 2010 2:33 PM

@210

I'm thinking this too. The alt timeline doesn't seem to have started at a particular moment, it just seems to show how things would have been without Jacob's intervention in everyone's lives.

- Ben/Roger (whichever one Linus refers to) wasn't touched by Jacob and didn't come to the island, so Ben has no island ties and is a teacher.
- Sawyer wasn't touched and therefore may not be a tormented conman.
- Goodspeed was on the wall - if Horace didn't come to the island then Ethan wasn't raised there hence being a nice doctor.
- Hurley was never touched 'til he left the island anyway (that we know of) - this is a bit of an anomoly... We're under the impression that the numbers drew him, and this seems to be different in the alt timeline as he is happy and rich and lucky.
- Locke is an interesting one: he obviously is in a wheelchair in the alt timeline, so how did he survive the fall if Jacob didn't revive him? Or did he get injured some other way?

Any more for any more??

Also, if Kwon is Jin, that might explain why Sun didn't foom back to 1977 when they returned to the island - perhaps only the candidates were required?

#248. Posted by: Jo at February 18, 2010 2:37 PM

I haven't read all the comments yet, but a couple of people have mentioned that the names crossed off must mean they are dead. Maybe it isn't that they are dead, but they are no longer candidates.

#249. Posted by: Skulley at February 18, 2010 3:11 PM

interesting how Ilana helped bury Locke but left Bram and her other buddies to rot in the foot statue.

#250. Posted by: Skipper at February 18, 2010 3:19 PM

Couple of thoughts...
First - I changed my name because I noticed I stole someone else's (sorry).

Second - How did Ilana know about Jin?

Third - The kid (who I think is Jacob) did not have bloody hands the 2nd time he appeared.

Fourth - Any significance to the movie posters in the office when John was being interviewed?

Fifth - Flocke was VERY scared when Sawyer slipped on the ladder and fell - he did NOT want Sawyer dead...he needs him for something.

Finally - I am in the middle of rewatching the other seasons - just finished Season 3 - and I noticed a couple of things that I missed before. In the monks office when Desmond was being "let go" there was a picture of the monk with Eloise...
Also - was the woman that Charlie saved from the mugger in the ally - was that Nadia?

Love this site - thanks for all the insight.

#251. Posted by: Lostie 2 at February 18, 2010 3:58 PM

#246. Posted by: welh at February 18, 2010 2:25 PM
I thought this was a rather weak Locke-centric episode. The LA X alternative story line is getting more tedious and contrived; like making New Yorker Rose a headhunter for Hurley in LA.


I'm not finding it tedious yet, and I enjoyed the ATL Locke storyline, but I understand what you mean. The ATL takes up a big part of each episode and so far, it has only raised more questions, and provided no answers. Still, it's easier to be patient, knowing that it will all be resolved by the end of the season. Most of the important stuff anyway.

#252. Posted by: Mischa at February 18, 2010 4:02 PM

Well, it's taken me a while to read all the posts from last week and this week. Most of my suggestions have already been mentioned so I'll spare davidrh any AUUUUUGGGGGHHH moments.

One thing that I noticed about last week's episode that I haven't seen yet is when Kate is at the airport and had to get in line for a taxi (gee thanks Frogurt), she was behind Hurley. He was on the phone and I believe he said something along the lines of "yeah... outback... it's juat a name..." ~~~ SO, is Hurley the owner of OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE instead of that chicken place this go around? Hummm... I know, not that important, but I'm funny like that.

Also, here is an excellect link to a site that has nothing to do with LOST so they are not "looking" for answers, but may have answered a few for me. It's entitled "THE BATTLE OF HORUS AND SET: PERSONIFICATION OF LIGHT VS. DARKNESS" and here's the link if you are so inclined to read:

http://tinyurl.com/yldc44e

And I also found this interesting. Forget where I got this from (I think it was posted here after the season opener so sorry to repeat) and kudos to the people that have enough time on their hands to do the researh. "Dogen's name probably comes from a 13th century Japanese Zen Buddhist philosopher(!): Dogen Zenji. One of his major writings was "Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma."

Woah...

A shout out to Sawyer for mentioning "Of Mice and Men" ~~~ "Can I pet the rabbit George? Can I?"

GRAA mac and good to see all the familiar posters. You guys are awesome.

My final note and this is just a thought and I'm trying to remember my old Sunday School classes. What if this place is "Eden" and smokey is the devil that tempted Eve. He used a snake as his "vessel" that time. Eden was supposed to be the very beginning of, well, everything. Life on earth, sin, lust, etc. If memory serves, there was supposed to be a healing pool there. Oh, I better go do some research before I get corrected to death, so nevermind.

I think WGNABB because there are two boats you could ride on. 1) The Biblical boat or 2) The Egyptian "Gods" boat.

Hum - I'm split. Which boat are you on?

#253. Posted by: BunnyLover at February 18, 2010 4:43 PM

@253/BunnyLover:
As long time posters know, I have been on the Egyptian underworld theory for a long, long, long time.

#254. Posted by: welh at February 18, 2010 5:17 PM

It looked like flock wanted sawyer to fall off the ladder when they were going down to the cave. Flock made a point of crossing to the 2nd ladder up to and he didn't tell sawyer to.

#255. Posted by: babydoll at February 18, 2010 5:18 PM

Flocke says that he knows what it's like to lose someone you love, and to be betrayed. Interesting.

#256. Posted by: Mischa at February 18, 2010 5:25 PM

@ #225 davidrh: That was a true LOL moment for me...very well put! I've got her on the blog now so she'll see it too. She's scared to post though...she's either afraid to use the phrase 'long time lurker' or just cringes at my laffo stories!

#257. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at February 18, 2010 6:10 PM

I think the alternate time line is just one of many that might have happened; things might have gone any number of ways for our principal characters. BUT, I think the point of it is that no matter what road those people went down, their paths would cross and they would effect one another's lives. Most importantly, I think Kate is going to be a pivotal factor of Aaron's life, no matter when or where.

#258. Posted by: undauntid at February 18, 2010 7:03 PM

I commented a while ago regarding the 1977 movie "The Sentinel" about the guardian of the gates of hell and the search for a replacement to keep the devil from escaping to destroy the world. Lots of parallels to Lost that I can see. I found a link to someone else who did some research (on the Chris and Dana Reeve Foundation website - an article about portrayal of people using wheelchairs on tv) and actually discovered that the movie synopsis writer on IMDB also was a writer for Lost early on. Haven't confirmed it myself but here's a link.

http://tinyurl.com/yzw666w

Pretty interesting if true.

#259. Posted by: Laurie at February 18, 2010 7:22 PM

One more thing...didn't they foom back to 1977. A clue?

#260. Posted by: Laurie at February 18, 2010 7:25 PM

@ Cecil 195

Totally agree...I don't think the island sank, I think it's been submurged.

The view we got in LA X seemed to show everything intact: Dharmaville, 4 toed statue, etc but underwater

This made me think about the fact that the island disappeared when Ben turned the FDW...Timetravel does not explain the island moving physicaly...still no answer for that though.

As for Adam and Eve, I'm starting to wonder if it might not be MIB and the one he loved and lost...

#261. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at February 18, 2010 7:40 PM

Had more time to check - the writer I referred to in post #259 seems to just be a reviewer at IMDB, for Lost among many other shows. However, the original point about "The Sentinel" still seems to hold water. Good vs. evil, searching for a candidate, a "being" trapped on the island. I'm going to try to watch it at some point. My husband says it scared the crap out of him in 1977.

#262. Posted by: Laurie at February 18, 2010 7:47 PM

Finally - I am in the middle of rewatching the other seasons - just finished Season 3 - and I noticed a couple of things that I missed before. In the monks office when Desmond was being "let go" there was a picture of the monk with Eloise...
#251. Posted by: Lostie 2

**************

OK Fans! I've been waiting for this moment...

AAAAAUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

whew. Was that as good for you as it was for me? . . .

#263. Posted by: davidrh at February 18, 2010 8:26 PM

Maybe the island is in a water globe. Wasn't there discussion early on about the island being in a snow globe type of thing?

#264. Posted by: Rudy at February 18, 2010 8:30 PM

O Lord Ruby! Two times in 5 minutes!


AAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

I don't know how long I can keep this up....

#265. Posted by: davidrh at February 18, 2010 8:34 PM

Thanks, Mac. I have sent your recaps to all my Lost buddies and they're sending to their buddies, etc...you are the greatest!

#88 re: daddy issues list--the greatest "daddy issue" duo ever was/is God/Jesus/Satan, if you are Christian.

Can't find the post, but it was in the 40's and it was brilliant and got me thinking: maybe the alt timeline we're seeing now, and getting to appreciate with its nicer differences, is the timeline that leads to the release of MIB and the end of the world as we know it, Revelations-style. (Faraday's mom saying "God help us all".) Perhaps the bomb also explodes as well, leading to all kinds of time-line splits and overlaps that destroy our world as we know it. (In 2012, Azetc-calendar prediction??)

So good to see posters, old and new, who struggle with possible theories. The writers will have new ideas until forever, thanks to you guys. I for one can only handle maybe two more Lost-type shows in my lifetime. Well, maybe three.

nose bleeding, head hurts....namaste

#266. Posted by: stontilam at February 18, 2010 8:56 PM

@251:
How did Ilana know about Jin?
-----------
Sun told her. They have been together for almost 15 episodes, since the Ajira crash --- except where Sun and Lapidus went to the Barracks. Two women, surrounded by men. You bet they talk.

#267. Posted by: SnidleyW at February 18, 2010 9:00 PM

Dear Lostie 2: Your question was once so common here, a poster actually uses the acronym as his/her blog name... ANTP?... Anyone Notice the Picture?

And thank you for the flashback, because nothing gets the juices flowing like a good DRH primal scream. Ahhh, so refreshing!

Also, if you're not happy with your new Lostie "2" blog handle, may I suggest a name in honor of this episode: ANTN?

#268. Posted by: Clementine at February 18, 2010 9:17 PM

I thought ANTP was from the Miles episode where he went updtairs to talk to the lady's dead grandson, and when he came back downstairs, the picture on the wall next to the stairs was different.

#269. Posted by: Rudy at February 18, 2010 9:23 PM

The scene at the beginning where Locke lands on the front lawn and the sprinklers come on reminded me of the first time Locke sat there on the beach where Locke experienced the rain for the first time.. although under 2 very different circumstances...

#270. Posted by: vintage at February 18, 2010 10:05 PM

Rudy: It all began in the comments section of Season 3 Key Points from "Catch 22" ...

tinyurl.com/ycl4xjc

And, interesting to note, it was DRH himself with the first remark about the picture and Mac who pointed out the acronym (gasp, as he called some of us "smartasses"! I resemble that remark!")

And, of course, the joke was resurrected in Season 4 Key Points from "Confirmed Dead", because we do love to beat a dead acronym.

tinyurl.com/yeekrts

Of course, for an abbrev. answer to your question, please visit the LBAG.

tinyurl.com/y8vphsn

#271. Posted by: Clementine at February 18, 2010 10:14 PM

The scene in the middle where Locke is in the tub and Helen walks in to talk and he is feeling friskie and pulls her into the tub on top of him and she says I guess not everything down there is handicapped then says not today John and he says don't tell who I can't do Helen... although I did watch this episode on Cinemax...

#272. Posted by: oldie at February 18, 2010 10:20 PM

@265 DavidRH:

ANTP?

[fingers in ears]

#273. Posted by: Cecil at February 18, 2010 10:33 PM

I feel like I was channeling the spirit of Cecil Rose in my last few posts...

#274. Posted by: CRementine at February 18, 2010 10:34 PM

If MIB was in Christian's form in the island before Locke (which I am quite convinced given how he told Locke to sacrifice his life)..the Christian that drunk addicted Jack was seeing in flash-forwards in his hospital could not have beeb MIB but just his vision/hallucination..becoz MIB says he is trapped in the island and can't get out..we have never seen MIB outside island even though we have seen Jacob..may be Jacob is not protecting the island but rather protecting earth from MIB

#275. Posted by: Jag at February 18, 2010 10:36 PM

273/274 Jinx!

If Ben shows up at my door with an electrical cord, I'll know you're behind it all, Cecil. You can't claim me.

Shouldn't you be off writing a Survivor recap?

#276. Posted by: Clementine at February 18, 2010 10:52 PM

Quick question.

When they buried the increasingly aromatic John Locke (next to Nikki & Paolo, btw) - did they bury Christian's nice dress shoes (that Jack borrowed from grandpa Ray) with him?

Grandpa Ray also declared about his nursing home - that he would one day escape. (MIB-like?)

#277. Posted by: DocH at February 18, 2010 11:45 PM

Skipper, maybe bring it down a notch? We're all fans here, no need to be churlish.

#278. Posted by: frankthetank at February 19, 2010 1:26 AM

#278. Posted by: frankthetank

Ok, will try. but what post are you referring to just so I know which one was rude?

#279. Posted by: Skipper at February 19, 2010 1:56 AM

Been thinking about Illana why she collected Jacob's ashes. Seems a pretty creepy thing to do, so you've gotta have a good reason. We've seen the ash in action before, so there's clearly a link here.

Maybe, and this is a BIG maybe, it's been Jacob's ashes all along. As the caretaker of the island, his ashes have a protective force: Bram and his circle, the ashes around the cabin etc.

We can even chuck the mysterious blond youngster into this mix by considering that Jacob can't be killed but is continually reborn, when stabbed repeatedly and pushed into fires, for example. Doesn't explain why Richard couldn't see the boy, but Richard is kind of inexplicable anyway.

Immortal island guardian, never-ending supply of magic ash?

#280. Posted by: Jin + Tonic at February 19, 2010 2:12 AM

OFF SUBJECT

Cecil? Do we still have our Lost Picture Page? I've lost the bookmark. It would be nice to get some pictures of our new blog members.

Plus the new and improved Cecil Rose, for that matter.

DRH

#281. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 7:48 AM

BTW:

Jin+Tonic's "Constantly reborn, Immortal island guardian, never-ending supply of magic ash" theory doesn't seem that far-fetched.

I had somewhat the same thought the first time I saw that bloody-handed boy.

#282. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 7:52 AM

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I wonder if there is a reason that Jacob doesn’t number people in sequence? I know there are numbers at least in the 300’s, why are their numbers all below 50? Do they show more promise as Jacobs’s successor?

Last year when they showed Jacob and MIB sitting on the beach and watching the ship come in, the talk led me to believe that whomever Jacob brought to the island always let him down. Did they let him down on the island or before they got there? I would think that Sawyer killing Locke’s Dad would be a let down, but his name isn’t crossed out?

I hope they expand on the reasoning for the numbering and not just another question that will not be answered.

#283. Posted by: opserc at February 19, 2010 8:52 AM

Anyone pick up on Flocke's response to Sawyer's ""Of Mice and Men" reference..."it was AFTER my time". So was Flocke a mere mortal at some point?

Also...I commented on this earlier (#107)...but it definitely WAS Desmond in that job poster in Rose's office. Not sure who the woman was but it wasn't Penny.

#284. Posted by: LostSoul at February 19, 2010 9:33 AM

I want to second Instanthuner's comment @154 that Kwon on the cave wall could be Ji-Yeon. And others who say the boy could be Aaron.

Back to the cave wall, seems interesting to note those we didn't see on the cave wall besides Kate, with the caveats that there are a number of unknown names and we probably didn't see the entire wall. (Maybe there's a separate section reserved for those who admitted using steroids?)

No Lapidus
No Tailies, especially those with DUIs
No Cindy
(Don't know about Zack and Emma since we don't know their last names.)
No Scarfy
No Tom Friendly or any Others except Juliet, Ben, Karl and possibly Alex and maybe they are all "New Others."

Are the candidates people who have been brought to the island, as opposed to descendants of the original native Others who were born on the island?

#285. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at February 19, 2010 9:36 AM

#285. Posted by: Scooby-Dude ...(Maybe there's a separate section reserved for those who admitted using steroids?)

LOL!!! Thanks for that!

#286. Posted by: Boodle at February 19, 2010 10:12 AM

We saw a wheel turn and the island 'sink' below the water surface.

In this last season, we assume the bomb went off -- as a result, we're shown the island below the water surface.

Can this be a coincidence?

#287. Posted by: Schiano at February 19, 2010 10:19 AM

What If....

the "ford" name on the wall refers to Sawyer's daughter, Clementine?

and "Littleton" refers to Aaron.

and "Kwon" refers to JiYeon

harkens back to the whole "kids are really, really important" theme.

#288. Posted by: GatorGal at February 19, 2010 10:32 AM

http://bit.ly/djV0km

This is of funny. Someone who never watched lost is watching the last season and blogging on it.

#289. Posted by: berkyo at February 19, 2010 11:00 AM

@ 288

Great thought..but what if Shepard is Aaron (that should be Claire's last name), becoz Littleton was not un-crossed...

#290. Posted by: Jag at February 19, 2010 11:02 AM

@276 Clementinesaid to me:

>Shouldn't you be off writing a Survivor recap?

It's up, click my name to go there

#291. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 11:57 AM

@258 - "BUT, I think the point of it is that no matter what road those people went down, their paths would cross and they would effect one another's lives."

Bingo! And if it wasn't a coincidence in the original timeline then why would it be a coincidence in the LA X one? The odds are just too great that these people would bump into one another by accident. So who or what is influencing them this time?

#292. Posted by: BrianV at February 19, 2010 12:24 PM

@281 davidrh remenisced:

>Cecil? Do we still have our Lost Picture Page? I've lost the bookmark. It would be nice to get some pictures of our new blog members.

It took me a while to dig up the link, but it's still there on bcre8ve's website. Click my name below to go there. All credit to him for the the creativiy exhibited there.

I dug up his email address somewhere and wrote him last year telling him how much we missed him. He replied that there's been a lot of turmoil in his personal life that had gotten him away from blogging, but he hoped to come back. Still haven't seen him though. bcre8ve, old pal, if you're lurking out there, we miss you.

For that matter, when's the last time we heard from ButchM?

>Plus the new and improved Cecil Rose, for that matter.

But if I turned sideways, you couldn't see me.

>DRH

Every time I see your initials I'm thinking Digital Rights.... what?


#293. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 12:49 PM

On a totally different note: I think I saw Cindy AND her scarf in the newest McDonalds commercial which has the parents vying for the chance to give the kid his Happy Meal.

#294. Posted by: Zup at February 19, 2010 12:54 PM

@289. Posted by: berkyo

http://bit.ly/djV0km

That is an awesome idea!
Thank you for sharing!

#295. Posted by: shikotee at February 19, 2010 1:24 PM

@289 berkyo broke the bloq with a too-ling URL and forewarned:

>This is of funny. Someone who never watched lost is watching the last season and blogging on it.

I think I've found my new secod-most-favorite Lost blog.

#296. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 1:25 PM

Anybody see "Fogotten" Wednesday night with Tania 'Alex Linus/Rousseau' Raimonde as a surrogate mother?

And William 'Ethan Rom/Goodspeed' Mapother was a baddie on last week's "Human Target' - which is a decent mid-season replacement show, btw.

#297. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 1:33 PM

#293 CECIL:

I have this. What I'm referring to is the REAL pictures that everyone added to a MAC Lost Blog picture page.

Ring a bell?

#298. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 2:02 PM

I don't think anyone else has posted this. When I saw the numbers next to their names I thought they represented the number of Shepherds or kwons. Like Jacob knows the last names of his replacement but has to go through many until he finds the right one. Just a thought

#299. Posted by: vlh at February 19, 2010 2:46 PM

#297 - Cecil

I missed HUMAN TARGET week before last and seeing “Ethan”, however it is fun to find actors in old roles . . . This last week, Kevin Weisman, who played the nervous scientist guy "Marshall" on ALIAS showed up on HT playing . . . well, another nervous scientist.

And a few nights ago on a repeat of FRASIER, “Abby” from NCIS was a waitress at the coffee cafe that the KSCL folks visit . . . She had a couple of lines and got to give the "Abby Look" at Frasier . . .

#300. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 2:55 PM

@298-davidrh,
are you maybe thinking of the lost reader map,
its the only place i have seen pictures of the people who post in here.

#301. Posted by: san at February 19, 2010 3:56 PM

Hey guys, I've never posted before, so I'm sorry if this has been brought up before.

I was just thinking, as to the good/ evil thing... Flocke tells Richard that he can't believe Richard would have followed Jacob for so long without actually knowing who Jacob was or why he was following him. Doesn't that sound a lot like something Satan would say? Like you shouldn't follow God because he never gives you answers, and I would.

Just rang a bell with me.

#302. Posted by: mel at February 19, 2010 4:28 PM

#301

EXACTLY!

#303. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 4:42 PM

@298 davidrh rejoindered:

>I have this. What I'm referring to is the REAL pictures that everyone added to a MAC Lost Blog picture page.

>Ring a bell?

[Too-wit, toowoo] [*crickets*]

Nothing up there.

----

@301 san contributed:

>@298-davidrh,
>are you maybe thinking of the lost reader map,
>its the only place i have seen pictures of the people who post in here.

If that's the case the Frapper map is still there, at least temprorarily - click my name to go there.

They've been threatening to shut it down since Jan 1, since they're going pay-only. They offer a tool to download map and images to "a convenient KML file" And I've done so, but I have no idea what one does with the KML file once you've got it.

#304. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 4:53 PM

Incidentally, the Lost Blog Reader Map Blog is still there (click my name below) id you want to read the comemnts that people made about map. It's in the "Lost Blog Etc" category.

The map no longer displays there, but clicking the grey bar at the botton of the empty frame will take you to the Frapper Site, same as the URL under my name in the earlier post.

If anyone wants to see the map, I suggest going quickly, no telling how much longer it will stay up.

#305. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 5:07 PM

iv'e been to the reader map a few times,
you have to be quite patient as it takes a few minutes to load up,
it was fun during the haitus to check out some of the regulars in here & put a face or avatar to the name,
i put my own location & a picture up for fun,
it only took about 5mins.

#306. Posted by: san at February 19, 2010 5:25 PM

Frapper is going into the crapper?!

#307. Posted by: welh at February 19, 2010 6:28 PM

Here are the FilmFodder LOST pictures that count.

www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/2008/04/second-annual-f.shtml

Where is the South Park image?

#308. Posted by: MorBid0 at February 19, 2010 7:03 PM

@308 MorBid0 asked:

>Here are the FilmFodder LOST pictures that count.

>www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/2008/04/second-annual-f.shtml

>Where is the South Park image?

Shortly after soliciting the South Park images, bre8ve dropped off the face of the earth, if not down the temple well. I think Smokey got him.

#309. Posted by: Cecil at February 19, 2010 7:45 PM

@304-cecil.
rejoindered is now my new favourite word,
i experimented with its usage earlier during a conversation with mrs.san,
she stormed off to bed, hmmm...
(word to the wise)
good word - be careful when you use it!

#310. Posted by: san at February 19, 2010 7:58 PM

OK, I know 2 businesses Hurley obviously doesn't own...

1--A Barber Shop

2--A Weight Loss Clinic

I know, I know, I shouldn't be messin' with Hurley. I really love the guy but I just couldn't help myself! Ooh, anyone wanna bet that he was talking to Libby on his phone while waiting in line for a taxi...wait a minute, Oh heck to the naw, why was he waiting in line for a taxi? Wouldn't he have a limo to pick him up?

Oh yeah, anybody think there's anything to Randy saying "Hello Colonel" when he was walking up to Locke right before he fired him? Was Locke in the military? Maybe he was in Desert Storm and got captured by the Iraqi's and Sayid tortured him by breaking his legs. Hmmm...maybe not.

Oh well, the countdown to next Tuesday continues.

gg

#311. Posted by: gg at February 19, 2010 9:01 PM

Locke and his coworker play an army strategy board game at lunch time in the fourth episode of the first season. His buddy calls him Colonel. His boss mocks him with it.

(your not that website author of NeverSeenLost Until Now, are you?)

#312. Posted by: SnidleyW at February 19, 2010 9:48 PM

i guess we will be treated to a side-flash episode dedicated to each of the main characters one by one,
we had kate then locke.....
i can understand why some fans may not enjoy this diversion,
sub-plots in tv shows are something we have come to expect & enjoy as long as it doesn't infringe on our enjoyment of the main plot,
season 6 kicked of with a 50/50 plot,
yet another bold move by the writers & producers,
i think back to all these airplane disaster movies from the 70s & 80s with their groundbreaking flashback moments,
i also think about the first time LOST showed us a flash forward,
(jack telling kate they had to go BACK to the island)
like many fans im not sure where this 50/50 plot is going but i have a feeling there will be another OMG moment when we find out.

#313. Posted by: san at February 19, 2010 9:51 PM

Thanks to san and cecil for the clarification about the lost map blog. That WAS what I was wondering about. I would have responded sooner, but after a day sitting at the computer editing music parts, the wife and I went to the opera tonight.

VERY SHARP retort by SnidleyW about the military board game. Talk about being a Lost Trivia HotShot!!!! I'm impressed.

#314. Posted by: davidrh at February 19, 2010 9:52 PM

@304 Snidley

Gimme a break. This long after Tuesday's show all the meaty issues were already hashed over. I tried a little comedy to shake things up a bit since the posts were slowing down. I was only joking around about the Desert Storm stuff (no, I didn't remember the military board game until I read your post). This show means a lot to me for reasons I won't go into and I've watched it from the very beginning but my memory is somewhat lacking compared to the rest of you. I'll quietly continue reading the comments and reap the benefits of your wisdom. You guys do have some great observations.

#315. Posted by: gg at February 20, 2010 12:12 AM

@315 gg chimed in:

>I'll quietly continue reading the comments and reap the benefits of your wisdom. You guys do have some great observations.

Oh, please, do keeo contributing. This is really a friendly blog, by intentional design of mac the magnificent. There's a few rough spots at the beginning of each season as new posters become acclimatized, but honest, allt he regulars are great friends and welcome new talent.

Welcome gg, and others newbies or lurkers as well. Please post and let us hear your take on things, which enrich us all and add to the experience.

After all we've only got what, 12 more episodes and then it'll all be over. (wah!) Don't miss a chance to be part of something great.

#316. Posted by: Cecil at February 20, 2010 12:24 AM

#314. Posted by: davidrh at
VERY SHARP retort by SnidleyW
Trivia HotShot!!!! I'm impressed.
--------------
Do not be. There is this wicked-cool new thing called Google. I typed the word "Lostpedia" and then the word "Colonel" in to their Search Engine --- and wham!!! --- in 0.47 seconds I had the exact answer to the hillbilly question that was raised.... I know! wicked-cool. Y'all should check it out. I think that the Google Search Engine will be the next big thing on the interweb/net. (it starts with httttp://wwwwww.somethin'.somethin' - or something like that)

#317. Posted by: SnidleyW at February 20, 2010 4:08 AM

HAHAHAHA

"There is this wicked-cool new thing called Google." #317. Posted by: SnidleyW.

I HOPE you're putting us on! . . .

:-)

#318. Posted by: davidrh at February 20, 2010 7:14 AM

Just speculating here.
I have a feeling that Jacob and MIB are time travelers who have somehow accumulated power over eons of time hopping and MIB's "home" is another alternate timeline...a timeline that doesn't bode well for the rest of us. Lost's writers have kept the island's secrets "rational" and haven't played a supernatural/mythological/biblical angle yet (hoping that there’s a reason for Miles to hear dead people).

#319. Posted by: Gopakumar Sethuraman at February 20, 2010 1:24 PM

@309. Posted by: Cecil

re: South Park Pics

Such a shame that it did not come together. When was this again? I'm thinking somewhere during season 4?

Does anyone have contact info for bre8ve? I wonder if he still has the SP images that everyone sent him. Compiling everything in photoshop should be relatively easy - I'd be willing to do it.

With that said - Any ideas for a final season group pic? I'd be willing to put this together. We could get everyone to re-create South Park renditions of themselves, or do something completely different.

Ideas?

#320. Posted by: shikotee at February 20, 2010 1:30 PM

Dear Fellow Lost Obsessed Friends,

So, I was talking to a "friend" this weekend who said after last year's finale, he just gave up on Lost. He said it was too complicated and they (Darlton) had gone too far with the crazy storylines! What? I was speechless. How do I possibly maintain my friendship with this traitor?? Please advise, ASAP!

Yours truly,

#321. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 20, 2010 1:52 PM

@321-lost2theworld,
if your friend was confused by the storyline he could have just paid a visit to this blog,
thats what i did a long time ago,
some theories in here are a little off the wall but many have turned out to be correct,
the whole point of a show like LOST is to cause some confusion which in turn evokes debate & speculation,
i spent a few seasons just reading macs review & the comments posted here before i decided to post my own thoughts

#322. Posted by: san at February 20, 2010 4:12 PM

321 Lost2theworld, some friendships just aren't meant to be.

#323. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at February 20, 2010 4:50 PM

Why don't we all get matching Lost tattoos? The numbers on our knuckles and a tiny Dharma logo right beneath our left eye. We all shave our heads like Locke and dress ourselves as MIB. Then we walk around town, breathing heavily and shouting out the numbers. Drinking Dharma beer.

#324. Posted by: Mischa at February 20, 2010 6:25 PM

@324-mischa,
yeah! fantastic idea,
then people wouldn't confuse us with those star trek freaks.

#325. Posted by: san at February 20, 2010 6:52 PM

Heavy stuff as always: Brian's analysis

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/

#326. Posted by: mtncbn at February 20, 2010 7:22 PM

most amusing one liner post in here goes to....
wait for it.....
307-welh for "frapper is going into the crapper?!)
that made me laugh.

#327. Posted by: san at February 20, 2010 7:56 PM

Interesting observation (if true)

According to another Lost blog, Harper - another of the Others - was in the teachers' lounge, too, working on a crossword puzzle.

gleaned from tinyurl.com/ykdhzqm

#328. Posted by: mtncbn at February 20, 2010 8:33 PM

Heavy stuff as always: Brian's analysis
http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/
#326. Posted by: mtncbn

I've had this Brian's site on my bookmarks for several years. He always seems to bring up something interesting each episode, but this time HE HAS PERHAPS OUTDONE HIMSELF! Admittedly at times I think we're more on the money over here, but who knows. He usually waits three or four days before posting his ideas.

It's a long read, but everybody probably should go there for a time and check it out. Then post here your reaction.

#329. Posted by: davidrh at February 20, 2010 11:12 PM

I was curious if anyone has any thoughts on how we're supposed to reconcile the appearance of "The Numbers"—which have been demonstrated repeatedly to originate w/Dharma—on the roof of a cave that has been shown to be a place of the Others—Dharma's enemies.

#330. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at February 21, 2010 12:46 AM

@330:Alaïs_Longthought

That's a great question. I think the answer takes us from the original, more mathematical explanation of the Valenzetti equation to the realm of the mystical.

Early on, TPTB explained they came up with the numbers from a parent who had an interest in numerology, as well as "borrowing" from the movie Pi.

In Pi, numbers are hidden throughout the Old Testament. When properly understood and translated, they can be used for both evil and good- from predicting the future to playing the stock market (just like Hurley's lottery).

In that movie, essentially the numbers (and the bible) are an encrypted message from God.

Jacob identifies and calls people to the island. The island can not be found any other way- invitation only. Each person is a number or variable, a possible fit into a final equation that will solve whatever the central "problem" that Lost is revealing- end of the world, end of the island, etc.

Valenzetti was attempting to predict the end of the world via a mathematical equation, and his theory was that certain numbers or variables were necessary to prevent that disaster from happening.

Dharma is founded to identify those variables. (And since Goodspeed, the on-island Dharma leader, was a number on Jacob's cave himself, presumably they were also drawn to the island upon Jacob's invitation).

Dharma's transmission of those numbers certainly draws both Rousseau and Hurley to the island, but more importantly, by building the Swan hatch, they create the circumstances that bring all of the needed variables or numbers to the island.

I think that's why in the "Variable" episode in season 5, the writers make this connection explicit when Faraday tells Jack "we're the variables"- a figurative statement now made literal by the revealing of the numbers on the ceiling.

Once Dharma's purpose has been fulfilled, they are no longer needed on the island, leading to the purge. It will be interesting to see whether the purge was Jacob or Smokey's idea.

I don't know how much of this was preplanned by the writers in the pilot development process, but after six seasons, I have to admire how well this thing has hung together, occasional missteps like PauloNikki aside.

#331. Posted by: Mizzed at February 21, 2010 11:35 AM

I wonder if in the alternate time line, if Locke's father is still responsible for Locke's paralysis...hunting accident?

I'm trying to sort some stuff out and having a hell of a time with it... Ben told Locke he had to kill The Man from Tallahasee. Then Locke enlisted Sawyer to commit the murder for him. But Locke took credit for the murder. Could it be that Ben wondered if Locke was The Man in Black back then, and whether or not Locke did it would tell Ben if it was Locke or a Flocke. Locke did it, or so Ben thought, so Ben thought it was Locke, not Flocke.

But it was Richard who told Locke that Sawyer has motive to kill TMFT. Was that Richard or the Man In Black who handed that file to Locke? If it was the man in black, was he preventing Locke from being "soiled" by the murder so he could use him later? If it was Richard...why would Richard prefer that Sawyer, rather than Locke kill TMFT?

Down the line a bit, Flocke uses Ben to kill Jacob.

Now we have Flocke attempting to con Sawyer for some purpose, perhaps to kill Jack? To open the gate for him so he can escape the island?

Way back at the beginning of the show we saw Smokey scan people. We speculated that he might be judging their lives. I think he was determining whether or not those people were usable for his purposes. He liked John Locke. He did not like Eko. When Smokey murdered Eko I realized Smokey was a bad guy who was trying to find people who could help him and eliminate people who would oppose him.

I have no idea where I'm going with this. lmao

#332. Posted by: undauntid at February 21, 2010 1:47 PM

#326. Posted by: mtncbn

#329. Posted by: davidrh

About Brian's analysis, it's the best theory I've seen so far. Explains so much that you really have to read it yourself to get it. I just have these small things to add:

His theory of MIB/Smokey as dissatisfied scheming security system jibes with Smokey lurking in the tunnels beneath and around the walls of the Temple. Like a guard dog outside a house. Of course, we've always know this of the Smokester, ever since Danielle said so in Season 1.

And remember the tapestry Jacob was weaving back in the Shadow of the Big Toe? It is essentially a large, tightly knit grid. Perhaps the numbers assigned to the castaways signify their position on the tapestry, which, once woven in, shape events in the world, pulling them all towards the island.

Cheers!

#333. Posted by: freckles at February 21, 2010 2:58 PM

@318. Posted by: davidrh

HAHAHAHA

I HOPE you're putting us on! . . .
------------------
I believe I was. Maybe I should'uv used my ancient Roman callsign
--- Maximus Sarcasticus

==================
@332. Posted by: undauntid

Way back at the beginning of the show we saw Smokey scan people... He liked John Locke. ...realized Smokey was a bad guy who was trying to find people who could help him and eliminate people who would oppose him.
------------------
He scanned Locke and let him go. He went back for Locke later and tried to drag him into a hole in the ground --- when Locke was headed to the Swan to blow open the hatch. So? Smokey wanted Swan to remain sealed and functional? Jack and team blasted Smokey with the dynamite/nitro to get Locke back. Was Smokey going to recruit Locke once he got him into the vent, or just kill him? Or get him onto the davenport for some snacks, sodas and tele? Maybe get to first base?

#334. Posted by: SnidelyW at February 21, 2010 2:59 PM

#326. Posted by: mtncbn

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/


Thanks for the link!

#335. Posted by: berkyo at February 21, 2010 6:54 PM

Image for ilovebenlinusxxx, and all other Jack Shephard fans... you can almost hear him breathing.

pics.livejournal.com/ack_attack/pic/00bzzddw

#336. Posted by: ANON2 at February 21, 2010 8:17 PM

Anyone notice the same questions being asked not only week to week, but several times in the same thread? It's almost as if people don't bother to read what others have posted before rushing to get their ideas/questions out there!

#337. Posted by: FenwayBen at February 22, 2010 12:22 AM

Hey...

Anyone notice the same questions being asked not only week to week, but several times in the same thread? It's almost as if people don't bother to read what others have posted before rushing to get their ideas/questions out there!

;)

#338. Posted by: shikotee at February 22, 2010 1:42 AM

and therefore . . .


DRHIS

#339. Posted by: davidrh at February 22, 2010 7:12 AM

Hey did ANTP?!? You guys are so snarky. It makes me laugh!

FYI - Ack's review is up. She makes me laugh, too. Her snarkiness would be much appreciated over here!! She has also posted the new EW article on Lost, which is good. Enjoy!

#340. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 22, 2010 8:42 AM

I think there is something major in leaving Kate's name out, as whether people like it or not, she has been a major charactar in the show!

I'm sure it'll be revealed why Kate's name is not in the wall in future episodes OR we might find out that its actually 'Kate Shephard' or 'Kate Ford'! as the names are all surnames may be covering the whole family (if married) rather than individuals e.g. 'Kwan'.......

#341. Posted by: HK at February 22, 2010 10:30 AM

Guys, I think that Flocke is taking Sawyer for a ride.....What if that's not Jacob's hiding place at all? We know that Jacob spent most of this time within the infamous foot. What if it was smokey's cave all along.....

I have a feeling that we will be finding Jacob's real list soon enough..

#342. Posted by: Michael at February 22, 2010 10:34 AM

@326/mtncbn – “Heavy stuff as always: Brian's analysis”

@331/Mizzed – “I think that's why in the ‘Variable’ episode in season 5, the writers make this connection explicit when Faraday tells Jack ‘we're the variables’- a figurative statement now made literal by the revealing of the numbers on the ceiling.”

I have just a few comments/questions before the new epi, mostly involving both Brian’s and Mizzed’s analyses.

Re the numbers in the cave as constants and unnamed people variables … I like the high concept, but still question where the names/numbers in the cave originated, exactly who is crossing them off, and why. Perhaps, somewhat as Brian suggested, Jacob is looping through time again and again, tweaking the variables each time (by touch and/or bringing to the island), and also perhaps being able to whittle down the list of constants on the wall … is each loop through time “progress” toward whatever is Jacob’s goal, which only “ends” once? If so, and the names were added sequentially, then how did the 815ers end up with such low ordinals? Did Jacob put the numbers there, or is he just trying to work his way down through them to reach the final one? Do we know it is Jacob crossing off the names, or perhaps MIB? Perhaps Jacob already knows who his successor is, and the names/numbers are an obfuscation to keep MIB from finding out? Perhaps as the list is now shrinking down toward one, “young Jacob” felt compelled to warn MIB that “You know the rules. You can't kill him.”

Brian seems to think it is obvious that this comment refers to Sawyer, but I find it anything but clear! It would make more sense to me if it refers to the one “true” candidate, rather than Sawyer. I also have to wonder if the one true candidate will end up being Aaron, and once again perhaps the cave names are intended to divert/confuse MIB from this truth?

Or perhaps the other way around? Truth … I think this will be important. Recently reminded of the potential plot correlation to Zoroastrianism, asha/druj, and Angra Mainyu/Ahriman, among other concepts. These seem to fit well with the Jacob/MIB dynamic, it all ending once, yadda yadda, but of course as yet just another element of the multi-cultural/religious tapestry of the show’s plot. What gets me though about this particular analogy is … who represents truth (asha)? The whole deal with liars/deceptors, as presented in numerous religious and traditional lore, is that they are very hard to identify … I keep feeling like the “obvious” interpretation (Jacob/MIB = asha/druj) is too easy, and will end up being turned upside down. I have no proof of this, but would suggest there is no “true” proof otherwise either, merely strong appearance, and by cliché of course that can be deceiving.

Going way out into the pure conjecture zone here, but I’m going to guess this is where Vincent will reappear and prove significant to the plot. In fiction at the very least, animals often seem instinctively able to ignore the trickery which so effectively clouds human judgment … I’ll suggest Vincent will end up being instrumental in the final identification of the true nature of asha/druj on the island.

Some general issues:

If Desmond is Daniel’s constant, is there a Hume number in the cave?
If Penny is Desmond’s constant, is there a Widmore number in the cave? Was Charles confused with Penny, due to the last-name-only thing?
Does Smokey react badly to gunfire because he’s the “Security System” per Brian? Is he/it hard-wired to attack when provoked? Is that why Richard was so adamant about not shooting Flocke when he emerged from the foot? If so, how did he know?
Who was the protector before Jacob? Was one?

#343. Posted by: ealgumby at February 22, 2010 2:14 PM

The Discovery Channel had an Egyptian theme marathon on yesterday as a preview for its new King Tut special.

A few interesting points:

I did not realize that there were numerous child kings of Egypt. Many successions were the direct result of murderous politics to control the blood line to the pharaoh's throne.

The duties of a pharaoh were two fold:
1. protect the nation from outsiders as a warrior king; and
2. protect the Egyptian religion as the liaison with the gods.

Temples were the place of worship of religious rights. Egyptians believed strongly in magic and spells. Tombs were the instruction manuals of how a pharaoh would be able to fulfil his duties in the afterlife. The most important duty was to guard the sun god Ra in his nightly journey through the underworld. If the mission failed, the sun would not rise again and Egypt would be destroyed in darkness. Many tombs have been found in desert caves.

When MIB stated that he was once human, had emotions, and had been betrayed in the past, by Jacob or someone acting in his behalf, it resulted in MIB being trapped on the island. It could be that Adam and Eve found in the caves were the last pharoahs or royals who fled Egypt to this magical island to protect their nation and religion from total destruction. However, they were killed and buried in a cave without the "instructions" on how to pass on their knowledge to their children, Jacob and MIB. As children, they had no idea what to do except to make up "rules" to live by, like in a game. But since they never gained the knowledge of the afterlife, their souls became trapped on the island with no way to go home (to their dead parents/paradise). Jacob keeps on bringing people to the island to see if they have the knowledge, but they do not because ancient Egyptian rites have been lost for centuries.

#344. Posted by: welh at February 22, 2010 2:49 PM

I swear some of you could teach a course on Lost theory and analysis. I feel so unworthy!

#345. Posted by: lost2theworld at February 22, 2010 9:16 PM

I still have 5 cents that I'm willing to bet that NikkiPaulo/diamonds/spiders have some relevance to the overall story. I only say this because I can not possibly imagine what it would be, so it must be so.

#346. Posted by: mtncbn at February 22, 2010 9:25 PM

Hmmm.....

from the lostpedia trivia section on Exposé

When Nikki throws a spider on Paulo, the chitter noises the Monster makes can be heard as a large group of spiders appear and bite Nikki. After much speculation, these noises, and the subsequent spiders, were confirmed to have been the work of the Monster in the Official Lost Podcast/March 21, 2008.

I raise to $0.25 !!

#347. Posted by: mtncbn at February 22, 2010 9:47 PM

Ealgumby: I am totally with you about Vincent! TPTB didn't bring him in because he is cute...he's important.

#348. Posted by: undauntid at February 22, 2010 9:47 PM

@mtncbn: Did we decide if it was a crab or a spider in Locke's grave? Was that a sign not to forget about the Nikki/Paulo story? I think Sawyer and those diamonds are destined to be together.

#349. Posted by: Clementine at February 22, 2010 9:56 PM

I'm giving up trying to read all the posts here. I just don't have the time unfortunately. So, before we're off to the next episode: GRAA Mac. :)

I think everything I can possibly write down here now has been said, but I do want to mention that I keep hoping for some reference to Walt. In LA X I hoped his name would be on the list in the ankh, now I was scanning the cave wall for his name. I sure hope they do manage to tell us why this kid was so special before the end of the show.

#350. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 22, 2010 10:30 PM

@Clementine
When Locke was laying on the beach getting ripe? - I believe it was a crab.

Sawyer sounds like a good bet. He may have already recovered them.

Maybe TPTB were headed off somewhere else, then abandoned it. Just doesn't seem likely to me.

And now that you've got me off on that bent, how about the frog Sawyer squished, and the Hurley Bird????
$0.05 on the frog being important!
Raise NikkiPaulo/etc to $0.50

#351. Posted by: mtncbn at February 22, 2010 10:37 PM

One more thing. In trying to make sense of the flash parallels one keeps running into problems with the current information we have. If it is a parallel timeline, when did it split off? And if it's not, what is it. One detail that peaked my interest is the supposed continuity error on Claire's medical record last week where the date was given as 10-22-04. Instead of October 22 2004, could this be April 22 2010? Perhaps whatever we are seeing takes place a month before the end of the series and the final episodes will be follow ups to the flash parallels? Could the flash parallels just be the future of the main timeline, with some event taking place that makes the castaways loose their memories of most of what happened on the Island? This would explain why the castaways seem to recognize each other, how Jack could have a mysterious cut, and why Jack's dad's body was not on the plane (it's on the Island after all). I doesn't explain why the rest of the world doesn't act surprised at the castaway's return in 2010 or why Charlie is still alive (although it does explain why he claimed that he should be dead) or why Helen is alive (well, Abaddon might just have lied to Locke last season). And is Claire's parallel!baby then really `our' Aaron?

There are probably too many facts this hypothesis cannot explain or even contradicts, but most other explanations also seem to fall short. Although with all the time travelling going on last season, if the split off of the new timeline really occurred in 1977 then its effects might well have travelled back to an earlier time then 1977 and so for example have prevented Ben coming to the Island. Who knows...

#352. Posted by: Plain Simple at February 22, 2010 10:44 PM

Once again man makes all the right choices -NOT-
Although the characters refer to the frog as a "tree frog", which are members of the Hylidae family, the actual species of the frog is Dendrobates auratus, which is a member of the Dendrobatidae family (i.e., poison dart frogs). They are native to Central America but were introduced to Hawaii, where Lost is filmed, as means of controlling the mosquito population.

I won't past all of this here, re: Sawyer/frog, but it may be of interest:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Frog

#353. Posted by: mtncbn at February 22, 2010 10:55 PM

@352 - Plain Simple
The majority of my reading says the date on the sonogram was a production error. -------------(HOW DARE THEY)------------

#354. Posted by: mtncbn at February 22, 2010 11:00 PM

@44 Tim - Taking the Psalms approach to the numbers yields much:

Locke 4:5 Offer right sacrifices and trust the Lord. Is Lock a/the right sacrifice?

Reyes 8 This Psalm asserts that the majesty of God (Dude!)assures the worth of mankind.

Ford 15:4 who keeps his oath even when it hurts. Sawyer has remained loyal to Juliet and has followed his own "code" the entire time he's been on the island.

Jarrah 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the grave. Sayid was revived from death and spared the grave.

Shephard 23 In addition to the name-check, I can hear Jack repeating this to himself as he's gone about his various missions on the island.

Kwon 42 The authors keep referring to being downcast, mourning, forgotten, as Jin has no doubt felt.

@ 343 ealgumby - Brian's hypothesis does fill in and tie together lots of things. I wonder if the cave wall numbers are like Social Security numbers - once a candidate is eliminated their number is open for reuse. This could explain the 815'ers low numbers. "The Numbers" supposed origin with the Dharma Initiative coupled with their presence on the cave wall makes me think there's some correlation there, maybe pre-dating the Others somehow.

Dharma folks have referred to their security system as the Cerberus System. Cerberus is the (typically) 3-headed dog who guarded the gate of Hades in Greek mythology, keeping the living out and the dead from escaping by devouring them. Can't help but compare that with Smokey, the island's security system according to Rousseau. Continuing the Cerberus analogy with the island security system, could Jacob, Smokey and Esau/MIB act as the system's three components, each with particular responsibilities? We have seen Smokey seemingly devour people - were they devoured because they were about to escape? And Smokey's depicted in the heiroglyphics - been around awhile. Jacob's role could have been to recruit people to curate the island - could he have also been a candidate in days gone by? And Esau/MIB's role...? If he was also a candidate who picked the two of them? And were the two of them candidates at the same time?

Bedtime - answers beget questions!

#355. Posted by: robinpiney at February 23, 2010 12:32 AM

It wouldseem the numbers predate Dharma. We thought they originayed with Dharma. They were merely the ones who broadcasted them when they discovered their importance. Dharma was searching for the mathematical equation which could predict/prevent the end of the world. They discovered the numbers trough scientific experimentation. They didn't create the equation. That would have always existed. Much like the outer planets of the solar system always existed even before we humans found them. They were akways there.
Jacob discovered these numbers through his own scientific methods of trial and error. He's gotten farther than Dharma over his lifetime as he had found out what/who the numbers represent and he is trying to now use them accordingly.

#356. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 23, 2010 5:29 AM

Sorry if this has been addressed already but by the time I read thru 356 comments we'll be discussing the next episode.
If the ALT storyline takes place in a reality where Jughead exploded and oceanic 815 didn't crash, then how can there be an adult Ben Linus living as a history teacher off-island? Wouldn't he have been in the Temple when Jughead went off, meaning he died as a kid?

#357. Posted by: zed at February 23, 2010 9:20 AM

@356/Crispy Seaplanes – “Dharma was searching for the mathematical equation which could predict/prevent the end of the world …”

Makes me wonder if Valenzetti has a number on the cave wall? :)

*** WARNING: WACKY THEORY FOLLOWS ***

So I went back and further reviewed Zoroastrianism … for those interested in plot/cultural correlations, I would *highly* recommend looking further into this topic, as it seems to fit very well (IMO, on par with the Biblical/Egyptian analogies, particularly in terms of the Jacob/MIB relationship).

Specifically, I found this site interesting, and something I noticed here has led me to a rather radical (partial) theory:

http://tinyurl.com/ylrclnc

So here’s my theory … MIB is not a man after all, but female. In fact, the infamous “Adam and Eve” from the cave are none other than …

Jacob and MIB!

Before you ridicule this theory too much, consider a few things: MIB can take the form of others, so why not the opposite gender? If MIB represents druj, then he’s a liar, so him telling Sawyer he was once a man, means absolutely nothing. Other collaborating snippets, from the referenced site:

“Druj-, Avestan feminine noun defining the concept opposed to that of aša”
“The corresponding verbal root in Indic (druh: dru‚hyati) seems to have the basic meaning ‘to blacken’“
“if the meaning of aša- is ‘truth,’ then that of druj- must be ‘lie,’ but, if the meaning of the former is ‘order, justice,’ than druj- must mean ‘error, deceit.’” (note: works both ways IMO!)
“the opposition was probably between ‘real order’ and ‘illusory, deceptive order,’ the first being linked to the lights of the day, the second to the shadows of the night”

Okay, so back to my theory … Adam/Eve were supposed to have been dead in the cave for about 50 years, according to Jack’s assessment when their bones were found (accuracy, who knows, but I’m assuming we were given this info for a reason). That would place them dead at around the time of the Jughead epi (1954). I have no idea what the significance of that time period is, but would suggest that somehow Jacob/MIB (WIB?) “died” in that timeframe, but travelled (once/twice/many?) through time (perhaps in an alternate “sideways” timeline?).

For whatever reason (perhaps related to the white/black stones in the pouch, perhaps Jacob's?), they have become the personifications of asha/druj, with Jacob the island’s protector patiently searching for his replacement, and MIB the antagonist eager to escape from being “trapped” on the island. I also cannot help but wonder about the possible connection between a female MIB and the apparent problems with bearing children on the island … don’t have a good idea to explain that yet, but makes me ponder, that’s all.

I know, loads of holes, and still have the nagging doubt regarding who is really truth/chaos. My bottom line though is simple … many have wondered who Adam and Eve will be since they first appeared, and just about every possible combination of male/female characters has been suggested.

No one has yet suggested Jacob/MIB yet though, as least not that I’m aware. In a rather perverse sort of way, it even makes sense, and would certainly prove to be a “Sixth Sense”/”Crying Game” type shock to most of the audience! For that reason alone, I give it credence …

#358. Posted by: ealgumby at February 23, 2010 9:41 AM

@153/freckles - "Perhaps the skeletons really are Adam and Eve and the rocks were for Cain and Abel, aka Jacob and Esau? In Genesis, Cain did kill Abel, after all..."

Damn, not only has the theory been proposed already, but right here previously in this thread! Sorry I missed that (or perhaps it planted the subconscious seed?) ... Now I suspect it's probably been posted elsewhere too, so will concede non-originality without the hunt. There is truly nothing new under the sun when it comes to Lost, is there? ;)

#359. Posted by: ealgumby at February 23, 2010 10:21 AM

New Podcast up at ABC.

#360. Posted by: berkyo at February 23, 2010 10:48 AM

Did anyone question how Ben got off the island in the "non-crash" reality then became a teacher? First he's brought to the island as a kid, then shot, then brought to the temple, then the bomb goes off assumingly sinking the island, and THEN...somehow he's in the US complaining about coffe discourtesies. That Ben had been on the island and escaped somehow.

#361. Posted by: redhotryan at February 23, 2010 12:09 PM

In reference to the importance of Vincent in the final story line:

Cats are mostly associated with the royals in Egypt, but dogs do have an important place in that society, as hunting dogs, shepards, guard dogs and pets.

Dogs were reflected in their gods, including Anubis, who is shown with the head of a jackal. A jackal is a desert wild canine, a bottom feeder who would dig up graves. They used those observations to symbolize a dog's role in the after life.

Anubis was not a god of the dead, in the sense that he was the ruler of the underworld, he was the god who supervised the embalming and burial of the deceased and who guided the dead to the underworld. The symbol of the "dog" seems to have been associated with the notion of "guiding."

Wepwawet, another canine god, is often represented on the bough of a boat, leading the way. The name Wepwawet means "the one who opens the ways," I think this may describe Vincent when Ghost Christian told Vincent to wake up Jack after the original plane crash.

Once in the underworld, Anubis, assisted by the god Thoth, supervises the weighing of the heart of the deceased. Only when the deceased's heart was found to be in balance with all that was as it should be, Maat, was he introduced to Osiris.

Anubis was also the guardian of the necropolis or cemetery. He was also described as the "lord of the cave", where "cave" refers to the tomb.

#362. Posted by: welh at February 23, 2010 12:20 PM

... Vincent will reappear and prove significant to the plot....animals often seem instinctively able to ignore the trickery which so effectively clouds human judgment ... Vincent will end up being instrumental in the final identification of the true nature of asha/druj on the island. 343 ealgumby

There have already been many Wizard of Oz references throughout LOST. I can see it now. At the end, Vincent somehow shows us the big reveal. And MIB is shouting, "Pay no attention to the Man Behind The Curtain!"

I agree with #345 lost2theworld: some of you could teach a course on Lost theory and analysis. I feel so unworthy!

#363. Posted by: lovelost at February 23, 2010 1:01 PM

Preshow amusement ...

Re @359 -
Reading @153 again I see it is not the same theory after all, so just had to take a quick look online and see if someone else has presented this idea elsewhere. Quickly found this from last Wednesday:

http://tinyurl.com/ykdmvzc

as well as a couple more after that. Not exactly the same take, but fundamental idea is the same:

Adam/Eve = Jacob/MIB

So not original, but I'll still stick with it for now ... I like having something to look for during the show to directly prove or (usually) shoot down.

Now if we only had evidence of young Adam/Eve having a dog, the Vincent circle would be near completion! ;)

#364. Posted by: ealgumby at February 23, 2010 2:23 PM

One more thought … When Ilana indicated MIB was stuck in Locke’s body, perhaps this is what Flocke meant by being “trapped” for a long time … once again (assuming Flocke’s current situation is similar to that when MIB appeared on the beach with Jacob) she (if MIB is Eve) is trapped in a male body. Also, maybe this is the source of the island’s fertility issues? Just throwing things out there …

#365. Posted by: ealgumby at February 23, 2010 2:37 PM

@ #361. Posted by: redhotryan

In the non crash reality, the plane did not crash and Sayid did not travel to 1977 to shoot lil Ben. so Ben would not have been in the temple when the incident happens.

By that logic then the bomb also isn't taken to the Swan and the bomb does not go off so how does the island sink? something else?
This cyclical nature of time travel and causation of events has caused me many sleepless nights since I saw the first Terminator movie.
The plane crashes, they go back in time, set off the bomb, the plane doesn't crash, they don't go back in time, they don't set off the bomb, then the plane crashes again.
Somehow they broke free of this cycle and ended up in 2007.
OMG I need some Tylenol...

#366. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at February 23, 2010 3:07 PM

To Ealgumby Re #358 About Adam and Eve you wrote: [it] would suggest that somehow Jacob/MIB (WIB?) “died” in that timeframe, but travelled (once/twice/many?) through time (perhaps in an alternate “sideways” timeline?).

I like your logic there and it is backed up by the freighter doctor being able to be both dead on the beach and fine on the ship. Hmm

#367. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at February 23, 2010 5:49 PM

watching the replay of last week & note a couple of things. Locke on his lawn, the captions said this is a flash sideways and shows what would have happened if 815 hadn't crashed. That seems unlikely since the non-crashing of 815 would hardly have caused Helen to come back to John and John to be on good enough terms with his father to invite him to his wedding. I do not think this alt reality represents what would have happened if 815 didn't crash, I don't care what the captions said.

Sawyer was Locke's second choice...if Richard had agreed to go with Locke, Sawyer could have drank himself to unconsciousness in peace.

#368. Posted by: undauntid at February 23, 2010 8:19 PM

@304/Cecil - "They offer a tool to download map and images to 'a convenient KML file' And I've done so, but I have no idea what one does with the KML file once you've got it."

Here's what you need to do ...

Go here and download Google Earth if you don't have it ... it's free! (sorry, Windows only):

http://tinyurl.com/2yjw33

Then go to Cecil's Lost Frappr map:

http://tinyurl.com/ycvepu4

Click the link to "EXPORT KML PAGE 1" to the lower right of the map ... it'll give a warning pop up about taking a while, and it will ... this is okay, just click "OK" and wait for it.

When it pops up a new box and asks "Do you want to open or save this file?" click "Save" and then save the zip file to your hard disk. Open the zip file and extract everything to a new folder (all files should be in the same folder).

Now find the single KML file among all the image files, and open it ... if you have Google Earth installed, a very nice globe/map will open with all the Frappr stuff in it, plus lots of other goodies.

Very cool ... thanks Cecil!

#369. Posted by: ealgumby at February 23, 2010 8:53 PM

@369 Ealgumby

Thanks, I'll give this a try when I've got time, then see if we can get mac to post it somewhere. Then all we've got to do is figure out how to put new entries on the map.

#370. Posted by: Cecil at February 23, 2010 10:28 PM

If Locke is number 4, who are 1,2 and 3?

#61. Posted by: Mischa at February 17, 2010 9:15 AM


How about The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.

#371. Posted by: Moe at February 24, 2010 12:19 AM

@370/Cecil - More map info:

Google Earth versions for Mac OS-X and Linux (as well as Windows) found at:

http://tinyurl.com/ddg43

The Google Earth API for web site integration is found at:

http://tinyurl.com/5k4vaz

This is not quite as plug & play as just opening a KML file from your desktop, but can be done. I'm sure Mac has tons of spare time for this! ;)

#372. Posted by: ealgumby at February 24, 2010 9:20 AM

в конце концов: отлично. а82ч

#373. Posted by: Woderce at February 26, 2010 2:20 AM