The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Dr. Linus"

Season 6, Episode 7
Episode Air Date: 03/09/10

Point 1

Ben Ilana

I was dubious when Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse called season six a bookend to season one. That seemed a little convenient seeing as season one is when "Lost's" pop culture relevance reached its zenith. But now I see that Darlton were being more overt in those season one comparisons. Many of the characters are literally going back to where they began. And frankly, I like it. This episode's final scene was a shout-out to those slo-mo reunion moments we used to see at the beach camp. Back before Dharma and donkey wheels and time traveling, it really was just a bunch of screwed up people trying to survive another day on a mysterious tropical island. I'm not saying all we've experienced since those simpler days was worthless -- I truly love what the show has become -- but I really enjoyed that callback and I won't mind seeing more of that kind of thing as the final episodes unfold.

As for the episode at hand ... I was shocked to look up at the 20-minute mark and see how much running time was left. This felt like a two-parter! There's a lot to parse, so let's get to it.

The good news -- can't believe I'm saying this, given the guy's history -- is that Ben is still with us. It looked pretty bleak for a while there, with Ilana forcing Ben to dig his own grave after Miles revealed Jacob's true killer (that would be Ben). But 11th-hour help from Flocke and a tearful monologue from Ben led to a temporary stay of execution. We'll see how long that holds up, however. Ben admitted the island is his Precious -- more important to him than Alex -- and I imagine its siren song will sing in his ears again before all is said and done. That's doubly true now since Flocke dangled a future position as the island's steward (a role that may be powerless, however). Ben looked like a drooling schnauzer staring down a steak after Flocke made that offer. And despite Ben's weepy self-actualization, I have deep doubts our dear Mr. Linus can so easily set aside his power-mad cravings. The Linus will rise again!

Other developments and observations from the 2007 island scenes included ...

-- Ilana tells Sun she's supposed to protect the six remaining candidates: Sun or Jin (Ilana doesn't know which), Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid. That last guy seems a little iffy, though. Ilana also informs Sun that she'll find out what all this candidate business means if Sun is "selected." And that leads to two questions: Who's on the selection committee? And, will a dance-off be part of the elimination process? (Please say yes ... please say yes.)

-- Speaking of Ilana ... who is this chick? We know she's a devoted Jacobin; she considered the guy a "father" after all. We know she's reasonably good with Latin ... and bounty hunting ... and kicking guys in the head with knee-high boots. But that's the extent of it. We still don't know why Jacob visited her in that hospital. Nor do we know how she recovered from what appeared to be significant facial injuries (I'm assuming Jacob had a role in that, but that's not confirmed). Heck, we don't even know if her current appearance matches her previous appearance. It's entirely possible she looked completely different years ago.

-- Nikki and Paulo make a guest appearance of sorts. Miles not only knows about their buried diamonds, but at some point he actually digs up the stones. Not sure how he did that. Maybe his ghost whispering has blossomed into full-on telekinesis.

-- Now then, this final bit is aimed at all you complainers. All those "we don't get any answers" layabouts! How you feelin' now? Chagrined, perhaps? A little sheepish? I hear tonight's crow is particularly delicious ...

In this episode we finally unlock one of the show's biggest mysteries. A huge reveal. Epic, really. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, then shame ... on ... you.

Okay. I'm kidding. I just think it's funny that back when we were first introduced to Frank Lapidus, there was a decent amount of ambiguity and ominousness (if that's a word) surrounding his absence from Oceanic 815. He was slated to pilot that ill-fated flight, and that seemed important. Was he up to no good? Did Richard Alpert slip a Roofie in his scotch the night before? But now that we're in the sixth season and time is running short, we discover in this episode that Frank's excuse was quite pedestrian: he overslept. That's it. Dude missed his wake-up call. So have at you, answer mongers!

-- One last thing: Jacob wasn't lying when he said someone else is coming to the island. And now we know that someone is Charles Widmore. He's steaming in via sneaky submarine and it appears his arrival is imminent.

Point 2

Ben Locke

Ben's flash-sideways segment lacked the angst of Sayid's or the surprise of Jack's, but it was just so damn interesting to watch Ben Linus -- sorry, Dr. Benjamin Linus -- in an alternate reality. It's now clear -- abundantly clear -- that the island really brought out the worst in this guy.

And how do we know this? Because in Ben's alt timeline he's presented with a delicious power play: blackmail his boss and assume the rightful role as high school principal. All the Ben Linus issues and tics are at play here: the inflated self worth, the aroma of victimization, those buggy eyes (made worse by coke-bottle spectacles). And yet, when it comes down to seizing power or giving his favorite student, Alex Rousseau, a shot at Yale, he chooses to help Alex. If that's not redemption, I don't know what is.

Ben's flash-sideways scenes also offered a juicy nugget of alt-island information. We learn that Ben and his alive-but-ailing father, Roger, were part of Dharma. They were on the island. At some point they left and resettled in Los Angeles, but we don't know why they left or when. Perhaps in this alt timeline, young Ben and Roger evacuated when the electromagnetic pocket under the Swan station started to give way (if that still happened). And perhaps -- total conjecture here -- that same electromagnetic pocket is responsible for the alt version of the island sinking to the bottom of the ocean.

Point 3

Jack Hurley Richard

Oh Jack, you wily bugger! It took six seasons, but you're finally growing wise to the island's wacky rules! In one of Jack's best scenes, he challenges Richard to dynamite roulette. And he correctly assumes that since his name was in Jacob's lighthouse, and since Jacob deems Jack oh-so-important, there's no way an old stick of Black Rock dynamite is going to cut his island destiny short. And he's right. Think about that. Jack is right. When's the last time that happened?

The Black Rock scene was also a fantastic set up. We got a hint of Richard's past -- just enough to know that Jacob is the one who gave him eternal youth -- but it's still unclear how, when or why this happened. And Richard is completely strung out, now. Even his guyliner is vulnerable. He dutifully (and stupidly) served Jacob for untold years because he was promised eventual answers and purpose. But with his boss gone and resolution seemingly gone with him, Richard just wants to end all this nonsense. His rock-bottom state might finally yield some info.

Point 4

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "This like a Terminator thing? You a cyborg? A vampire?" -- Hurley to Richard, asking about his eternal youth.
  • Second Best Line: "Want to try another stick?" -- Jack to Richard.
  • Third Best Line: "You make friends easy, doncha?" -- Frank to Ben.
  • If Flocke is to be believed, he's going to initiate Operation Get the Hell Out from a base camp at the Hydra Station. But what's so special about the small island? Is it the bear cages? I know they're brimming with aphrodisiac fish biscuits (see "bear cage sex" in SE0306), but beyond that I can't see the importance.
  • Unearthing alt-Ben's latent megalomania didn't appear to be alt Locke's intention -- and ultimately alt Ben kept it in check -- but it was interesting to see Locke acting as the inadvertent catalyst for alt-Ben's power play.
  • After watching Leslie Arzt in action in the alt timeline, I'm kinda glad he blew up. He's an ass in every universe.
  • Has anyone spotted the name "Linus" on the lighthouse wheel or Flocke's cave? Was Ben ever a candidate?

That's all I've got!

Next Episode:

"Recon" -- The sparse details suggest we're in for a Sawyer-centric episode. Airs Tuesday, March 16, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Awesome, Mac.

#1. Posted by: JT at March 10, 2010 12:02 AM

First!

#2. Posted by: Denise at March 10, 2010 12:03 AM

mif.

#3. Posted by: undauntid at March 10, 2010 12:06 AM

OOM

(out of the money)

#4. Posted by: glostover at March 10, 2010 12:12 AM

Other big reveal: candidates are to replace Jacob.

I know it was pretty obvious, but the confirmation didn't hurt.

#5. Posted by: cyp at March 10, 2010 12:16 AM

OOM

(out of the money)

#6. Posted by: glostover at March 10, 2010 12:20 AM

GRAA, Mac, this sure was one heck of an episode. I felt like a lot of answers were given for the first time in a long while.

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

#7. Posted by: csmithfdub at March 10, 2010 12:21 AM

GRAA Mac!!

Ben episodes never seem to disappoint. =]
Gotta love that man...

We saw him dig again! Just this time it was his own grave...

Best line: "cheese curls!!" (Hurley)

#8. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 10, 2010 12:29 AM

Best Arzt-based episode since the death of Nikki and Paulo!

#9. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 10, 2010 12:35 AM

The dynamite not going off and killing Jack (along with Richard) immediately reminded me of Michael and how the island (or Jacob??) wouldn't let him kill himself. Or Jack for that matter (suicide interrupted) or Locke (Ben interrupted him and killed him). Could this also explain Mikhails 143 lives - if Jacob had touched him too. Richard says I can't kill myself...Jacob touched me.

#10. Posted by: beth at March 10, 2010 12:36 AM

GRAA Mac, but (and with all due respect) I disagree with your assessment of Ben's on-island headspace. I understood the parallel Ben stories as revealing his redemption in both "realities." I think that with the series wrapping up forever, we're starting to get closure for the open issues. Big issue from the get-go was whether Ben is really a good guy or not. All evidence to the contrary, it seems that deep down (which may be part of what these ALT-2007 scenes are here to show us), Ben strives to do the right thing. I actually cried during his speech as I saw that moment as his on-island epiphany.

Re Flocke's choice of locale for his island breakout, the appearance of Widmore's sub (AND HOW SURPRISING/AMAZING WAS THAT?!), suggests that there will be an(other) important showdown coming soon to the Hydra station! I can't wait.

It looks like the show is really setting up to provide the satisfying closure we have been hoping for.

#11. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at March 10, 2010 12:37 AM

"I was picking bits of Arzt off me for two days!" Hurley

#12. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 10, 2010 12:38 AM

When Ben was bribing Miles to help him escape, it reminded me of Tyrion Lannister from A Song of Ice and Fire series. It just made me smile. They're both highly intelligent and manipulative characters.

I'm glad Ben isn't dead. Of course, when the sub showed up at the end, I thought they might snipe him. XD

I really don't want Kate to end up with Sawyer. Egh.

If Widmore is coming back into the picture, does that mean Desmond and Penny will as well? I really hope so.

#13. Posted by: Silhouette at March 10, 2010 12:42 AM

Who Knew?

That Miles could read ashes?

Or that Jacob was human enough that Miles' talent could work on him in the first place?

That crazy-a**ed Jack would be so much fun? And not one tear? And no breathing noises?

Question: When Richard told Hurley "Don't believe a word he says" about Hurley's post-death Jacob conversations, was he voicing disgust with Jacob, or was he saying that the apparitions were really Smokey-Locke?

#14. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 12:44 AM

Question: Ilana said there were six candidates. A few episodes ago she thought Frank could be a candidate. Did I miss something where she became informed or do we assume this happened somehow. Obviously, Jacob's ashes not talking to her :).

Also, wondering if counting Sayid as in still since Ben said he killed Dogen.

#15. Posted by: beth at March 10, 2010 12:52 AM

Hey, I can use that annoying commercial time to write down my comments, so I won't forget anything. :)

-Just caught part of the "extended episode" (or whatever they call it) from last week. Usually I don't watch them, but I must say the extra commentary is worthless. For example, they wrote that the sideways story is about what would have happened had 815 not crashed. This is obviously not the main driving force behind the ALT world with all the background details for the characters being different as well.

And now to this week's episode.

-Miles' "uh oh" was priceless. :)

-The one-liners keep coming. Lapidus: "You make friends easily." Hurley: "Cheese curds"

-So Roger Linus did sign up with Dharma in the ALT world, but left the Island and hasn't been in touch with them since. He doesn't seem to know the Island is beneath the water now.

-Does anyone have screen caps of the stuff Ben was rummaging through at the beach camp? Any clues in there?

-So Ilana was sent to protect the candidates. Send by whom? Did Jacob travel off Island again or do the off- Island Others not take their orders from the Island?

-Richard Alpert is opening up. He seems less bothered with keeping mysteries. I guess he doesn't have to keep his power base safe anymore.

-They're really stuffing a lot of comedy into this one. Miles' comment about Nikki, Paolo, and their diamonds was great. I guess Miles has really changed, since he didn't go for the money.

-Hurley voicing fan speculation about time travel and cyborgs again. Great! But it turns out to be Jacob's touch. Does that mean the Candidates won't die either? They seem to age, don't they?

-For a moment there in ALT world when Ben told Artz the purpose of his email inquiry I thought that ALT Ben didn't need to depend on secrets to have power, but immediately after he started making deals. Turns out he isn't that different from Island Ben after all.

-Anyone notice Richard looking at the chains? ANRLATC?

-Jack has gone completely stark raving mad. Hasn't he figured out yet how Locke's man-of-faith schtick got him killed?

-So now Flocke can unlock chains at a distance? Great, more mysterious unexplained powers.

-Oops... I guess I wrote too soon about Miles and the diamonds.

-So, how did Widmore manage to find the Island?

End of episode. Let's post my initial thoughts above and read your review MAc and the other poster's thoughts. :)

#16. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 1:00 AM

Hurley: Well, if you change your mind, I'll be right about a mile away.

#17. Posted by: unhandyandy at March 10, 2010 1:01 AM

Oh, and Hurley, please don't break Sun in two. I was worried there for a moment at the end.

#18. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 1:04 AM

GRAA Mac!!! Thanks for all you do as you really pull things together.

Dr. BL was interesting to watch tonight. When he was cooking up the gourmet dinner I was blown away when he served it up to his dad. That I did not expect.

Can't wait to see what others write about this show.

#19. Posted by: dk at March 10, 2010 1:16 AM

#16 Plain Simple: Ben rummaged and the book "The Chosen" by Chaim Potek. I almost forgot about that until your reminder. Set after WWII story of two young boys - friendship, role of faith, father-son relationships, etc

#20. Posted by: BC at March 10, 2010 1:18 AM

GRAA Mac!

It seems that in both timelines Ben found redemption, but it's a fragile one in both cases. It's clear that the temptation of power is there and the will to seize it is also present in both.

Silhouette @13 wrote "I'm glad Ben isn't dead. Of course, when the sub showed up at the end, I thought they might snipe him. XD"

I had the same thought. Must have been the periscope shot.

#21. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 1:22 AM

Love how Ben “gassed” his sideways dad - heheh

Welcome back, Alex!

#22. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 1:24 AM

Thanks BC @20! I think I even might have read that book a long time ago. Did we see that book before or is it the first time it popped up? In other words, was it a reference back to season 1 or just thematically relevant to the episode at hand?

#23. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 1:25 AM

@15/beth - "Ilana said there were six candidates. A few episodes ago she thought Frank could be a candidate"

see @4 in the MoJo Interview thread for further discussion .. you are right though!!!

@16/Plain Simple - "Does anyone have screen caps of the stuff Ben was rummaging through at the beach camp"

per Alaïs_Longthought ... "The Chosen"

#24. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 1:25 AM

Skipper @22: "Love how Ben “gassed” his sideways dad - heheh"

Good catch! I missed that reference.

#25. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 1:26 AM

#23 - To the best of my recollection, first time seeing book.

#26. Posted by: BC at March 10, 2010 1:34 AM

per #24 & #15 ... theory of the day ... Frank is the one!

I'll suggest his name is at 360 on the lighthouse dial, not that it matters ...

I mean, what really matters, you know? Does it matter what shoes I wear, or what shirts I wear, or whether Michael Jordan's underwear is caressing my nether regions? No, I say! Basketball and underwear have NO bearing whatsoever upon one another, and I *challenge* anyone out there to prove otherwise! ;) :)

Speaking of ball ... what was the deal with Len Bias anyway? I mean, dude, he's like old and stuff, but like, he's dead and whatever ... is he really dead? Duh, that's Elvis, not Len, what am I thinking?! ...

Okay ... the five second pause to clear the brain cells out has ended ... anyone still think there's something to the "Frank's *THE* candidate" theory?

#27. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 1:44 AM

What's The Deal?

- So Jacob and MIB keep making these "deals" with various candidates and non-candidates.
o Dogen was promised that his son would live if he moved to the Island and took on a new job.
o Sayid was promised that Nadia would be alive but he would not be with her – in return Sayid must deliver a message for MIB.
o Richard might have been promised to be released from his chains in return for servitude.
o Ben was promised that he could rule the island in exchange for ?? (not sure here).
o Sawyer (who is probably waiting for everyone at the Hydra Station) also made a deal with MIB that he could go home if he helps MIB.
- But once you make a deal you have to follow the terms of the agreement or the “rules” of the agreement. If you break the agreement (rules) then the deal is off. One of the terms or rules is that you cannot kill a candidate. If you do, the deal is off. So, Dogen could not kill Sayid because if he did, his son would no longer be alive – the deal would be off. I think this is also why Christian wouldn’t help Locke turn the FDW, etc. because it would be breaking the terms of his particular agreement, therefore nullifying the deal. Same with Ben and Widmore – they cannot kill certain people or else they lose everything they bartered for the deal. Unless you find a loophole, which some have found, i.e. MIB and Widmore using Keemy.

That is all.

#28. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 1:46 AM

@28/Skipper - Faust ... or Glenn Beck

#29. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 1:50 AM

Dr. Linus says, “And it was on this island that everything changed, that everything finally became clear. Elba. This is where napoleon faced his greatest test because exile wasn’t the worst of his fate. What was truly devastating to him was the loss of his power. Sure they allowed him to keep the title of emperor but without any power it was meaningless. He might just as well have been dead”.

It sounds exactly like our Island and our Ben. His power is so important to him even if it’s meaningless. Even if Alex had to die for it – and all this time, he was actually pretty powerless. Ben realized this and that’s why he didn’t end up following Flock.

#30. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 2:40 AM

In the teacher’s lounge, Locke is the one who suggests to Ben that, “maybe it’s time for a change”, and that Ben should be the principal. On the Island it is also Flock who suggest that Ben become the new leader. How cute of Darleton to do that. :P

#31. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 2:41 AM

Good episode! A couple of observations:

1. Richard said that once you were touched by Jacob, you couldn't die. Locke appears to contradict that -- Ben was able to kill him, and he's one that Jacob definitely, directly touched. On the other hand he IS alive in some form. And does the indirect touch (through a candy bar as I recall) explain why Jack couldn't die?

2. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the alt-reality isn't real at all. It seems like a "Wizard of Oz" thing, where everything turns out just right and just about every character anyone runs into is someone from the island.

("You were there, and you and you!")

Seems like too many coincidences for a real alternate reality. I still think the sideways reality will turn out to be a "dream world" that MiB offers the candidates to tempt them to his side.

The Wizard of Oz scenario could work both ways, of course. Maybe the island is the imaginary place...

#32. Posted by: Michael Moncur at March 10, 2010 2:50 AM

Great episode and probably the best sideways story next to jacks so far and great review Mac!

The sideways stories getting a little more twisted as you brought up the fact about Dharma still existing and all. It just doesn't make sense (when does anything in Lost make any right..) how the island could even exist and if we all assuming the the other timeline got rid of it then how to explain its existence under water?

Also another weird thing that happened, Hurley makes a comment about Richards look not changing in 30 years but did he ever meet him back then? Just thought it was weird but probably means nothing...

#33. Posted by: ogchavez at March 10, 2010 2:57 AM

Miles: “linus killed him”
Ben: “Whaaaaaaaat? That’s not true”

It’s funny when Ben lies

#34. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 2:57 AM

Oh and did you catch Ben’s reflection in the microwave when he was making a turkey meal for his dad? Another mirror reference!

#35. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 3:15 AM

Where the heck did Richard come from in the jungle? He told Jack that he wouldn’t believe him if he told him, “net yet”. I mean, are there still things that Jack wouldn’t believe?

H-bombs/electromagnetic forces, $400
Time Travel, $8000
Moving Island, 15,000
Healing Jacuzzis, 16,000
Lighthouse Mirrors, 23,000
Smoke Monster, 42,000,000
Where Richard popped out from, PRICELESS!

#36. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 3:34 AM

I guess it’s implied that Danielle rousseau is a single parent off Island since Alex says that her mom works 2 jobs just to pay rent. Never mentions a dad.

The way that Ben looks at Alex and protects her makes me thing that he knows about the ‘sideways island’. Also the way that Ben is sarcastic when his dad says that the Island would have given them a better life makes me think that Ben has memories of living there as an adult, not just a child. I think that in future episodes we’ll see Ben make a deal with MIB or Jacob to bring his Dead daughter and father back to life in exchange for “something”. I think each lostie will make a similar deal to bring back dead loved ones (jack’s father, Kate’s old love who died in the car, Sawyer’s parents, Hugo’s grampa (or was it an uncle that died when the porch collapsed?) Hugo might ask for Libby. Jin and Sun don’t really have anything I can think of to barter for….maybe they’ll ask for Locke’s life).

#37. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 3:43 AM

DATNOTOHGGMS?: Did Anyone Take Notice Of The Olympic Hockey Game Gold Medal Score? It seemed like a fairly matched game. Apart from the terrible sportsmanship by half of the Canuck team, and most of the their fanatics.

#38. Posted by: Oly Gold at March 10, 2010 4:34 AM

Got such a thrill when I saw Alan Dale's name in the opening credits - bout time we saw Widmore again! Looks like he's putting that Black Rock ledger to good use.

#39. Posted by: Jin + Tonic at March 10, 2010 4:41 AM

I'm so looking forward to the deep thoughts that will be up here later on today. GRAA Mac, because there were major themes mixed with quick tidbits of oh-so-important information that were easy to miss.

I've been grateful for the humorous parts injected into each episode, lest we take things too seriously. (Too late for that!) Miles' and Hurley's one-liners never fail to satisfy. But I'm a high school science teacher. Seeing Arzt go to the "dark side" for some lab aprons and a better parking space made my night.

#40. Posted by: jaybee at March 10, 2010 4:51 AM

Gosh, I loved this episode so much. Michael "deserves an Emmy" Emerson really spoke to me and made my heart ache for him. He looked so defeated when everyone else was hugging and shaking hands at the end of the episode. He just stood there. "What about you?" as Jacob has previously said. Oh, I wanted to hug em myself. And the speech he gave Ilana was redeeming enough in my eyes. Apparently it was honest enough for her, too. She said, "I'll take you", without hesitation. Poor Ben, he's the last person to get picked in a game of Dharma Dodgeball.

Widmore in a sub? If he could get to the island via sub in the first place then what took him so long to find it? Is he just now finding it b/c Jacob is dead and no longer protecting the island? If so, how did Widmore know that Jacob was dead? How convenient that the sub would be pulling up on the exact same beach that the Losties are on instead of pulling into the "Sub docking Station" near New Otherton, which Widmore knows about since he was exiled from that same spot. I can’t wait to see the Widmore/Linus reunion, oh, they should have a pot luck lunch for them so that everyone can catch up. Last time we saw Widmore was when Ben called him to say that he’s looking right at Penny’s boat and that he was going to kill her! Good times!

#41. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 4:59 AM

Just got done watching here in Samoa.
==============
re: Oh, I wanted to hug em myself. And the speech he gave Ilana was redeeming enough in my eyes. Apparently it was honest enough for her, too.
==============
really sure on that? Mr. (sorry Dr.) Linus - (he didn't go to evil european history school for seven years just to be called mister) - dude ALWAYS has a plan!!!

I betcha he has ALWAYS been in contact with Jacob..... he has ALWAYS been Alperts' MASTER...... he will soon be pimpslapping Ilana all over the island... and he will ultimately be the next generation PROTECTOR of the island.... minus fLocke, and the fLosties, and the flAJirans - etc.

#42. Posted by: ANON2 at March 10, 2010 5:42 AM

What's so special about Hydra Island?

You mean other than the mostly intact plane sitting there on a convenient runway?

#43. Posted by: Nevermore at March 10, 2010 6:26 AM

Something really bugging me from last night: Isn't Jin on the same beach as Sun et al??? Isn't that where Claire left him after she stitched him up? I mean, I know it's an island and the perimeter is beach all around, but I thought Claire set up camp in the same area. I was waiting all night for the reunion....am I missing something???

#44. Posted by: Vikki at March 10, 2010 6:33 AM

Prediction: Jack will be The Chosen One

Observation: A book titled "The Chosen" in Sawyer's beach stash that Ben was rooting through

Fact: Michael Emerson is BRILLIANT!

Question: Will we ever learn why Sun did not get expelled from the plane (and hence into the 70s) with Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley when the Ajira plane crashed? This is still bothering me...is it a sign that it is Jin that is the "Kwon candidate" and not her perhaps?

#45. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 7:12 AM

Well, I didn't read all of the posts but I just had to say...just kidding!

Great episode! I still think that Ben is THE BEST CHARACTER EVER!!

Now, off to read!

#46. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 10, 2010 7:15 AM

The last two episodes remind me of the folk legends of meeting the devil at the crossroads to trade your soul.

Sayid faces his crossroads, and sells his soul for the promise of being reunited with Nadia, losing any chance to be redeemed either on the island or in the sideways world.

Ben meets the demon at the crossroads, but rejects Smokey's offer of what he has valued most- power. Instead he chooses his love for Alex and the acceptance of the beach camp, and in so doing finds redemption both on-island and in the sideways world.

I understand the view that "following Jacob = redemption" is too simplistic for a complex show like Lost, but when it is masterfully handled- as it was last night, it reminds me of why I love this show. A powerful episode, one of the best of the season, and a nice emotional rebound from the darkness of last week's temple massacre.

Perhaps we now finally get to see the fully whole leader Jack, the Shephard, healed both on-island and off-island and preparing to lead Jacob's followers- if that means no more anguished or conflicted Jack, then I'm in.

Widmore surfacing near the beach but proceeding onwards is IMO a foreshadowing that Widmore is firmly in Smokey's camp, and headed for the rendevous at the Hydra.

Why did Widmore tell Ben he could not sleep at night- was it because he had "sold" his soul for power, that which he most desires? Certainly he has played an instrumental part in getting Oceanic to the island, getting the Oceanic 6 off the island, and getting Locke to return in the meatbag vessel for Smokey's use.

Since it was Jacob that said someone else is coming, I'm guessing he doesn't mean Widmore- my bet is on Desmond, the man who has been completely intertwined with Widmore since the start of the series.

Regardless of how it turns out, great stuff that emotionally harkened back to the classic Lost episodes of season past, even down to the music and happy rendevous back on the beach. Now Kate and Sawyer- get your rear ends back over to the beach camp where you belong.....

#47. Posted by: Mizzed at March 10, 2010 7:23 AM

The name "Linus" is on the lighthouse wheel, number 117. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lighthouse#Names_and_numbers
No way to know if this was Ben or Roger though.

#48. Posted by: james poteet at March 10, 2010 7:23 AM

#43 - Nice Catch! Everyone go back and read his/her post. Has a ring of possibility to it!

That was a very entertaining episode last night. Nice review on Mac's part.

#49. Posted by: davidrh at March 10, 2010 7:28 AM

@ #49. Posted by: davidrh at March 10, 2010 7:28 AM
43 - Nice Catch! Everyone go back and read his/her post. Has a ring of possibility to it!

That was a very entertaining episode last night. Nice review on Mac's part.

*******************

But the pilot, Lapidus, is on Team Jacob. Can't do much with a plane unless you have a pilot who knows the right coords. to get off the island. right? Taking off in a plane is too obvious and lack-luster. I think MIB's plans for leaving the Island are going to blow our socks off... I hope!

#50. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 7:36 AM

@14. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 12:44 AM
Question: When Richard told Hurley "Don't believe a word he says" about Hurley's post-death Jacob conversations, was he voicing disgust with Jacob, or was he saying that the apparitions were really Smokey-Locke?

I think Richie was just pissed and felt used and abused. Wanted to take his frustration out on someone – and since Jacob is the one who hurt his feelings, he was bad mouthing Jacob by telling Hugo not to believe anything he says. i don't think there's anymore to it really.

#51. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 7:39 AM

Awesome and very entertaining episode! Unless I forgot something that was previously revealed (which could very well be the case)… I thought the biggest reveal, (while not an outright confirmation but at least a very strong suggestion), was that Richard IS INDEED from the BLACK ROCK.

#52. Posted by: frogurt at March 10, 2010 7:50 AM

Can someone please tell me why Flocke didn’t just turn onto Smokey and waste Ilana and the others when he stopped to talk to Ben? It would have been very easy to wipe out the competition at that point. Is everyone at the beach somehow protected that he couldn’t kill them? If he couldn’t kill them, why didn’t he tell Ben to make sure he killed Ilana?

#53. Posted by: opserc at March 10, 2010 7:59 AM

It is my understanding that Jacob's touch prevents the recipient from being able to commit suicide but NOT from murder or accidental death or natural death.

Hence, now we know Michael was a candidate too (we were just never shown his Jacob touchy moment). Remember when he tried to off himself via car wreck and gun-to-head and Mr. Friendly told him he couldn't. The island wouldn't let him. Well, now that is clarified.

#54. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 8:03 AM

Can someone clarify...........

How Miles knew about the diamonds? He wasn't even on the island during the demise of the Nikki/Paulo duo. And he hadn't arrived yet to be there for teir funeral either.

Are we supposed to believe that Nikki and Pauolo spoke to him from their graves and told him "$8 million of diamonds are buried on top of me."? Does Miles' ability to "hear the dead" have any time limit? I wonder if he will talk to Adam/Eve in the cave in the end....

#55. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 8:07 AM

Mac, I posted a list of the names that were legible on the lighthouse wheel in the discussion of that episode (Lighthouse, post 280 something). Linus is 117, and is crossed out. As for what's waiting on Hydra Island, well how about an intact airplane and possibly a submarine in the near future?

After Ilana's conversation with Sun I am convinced that it is Jin who is the Candidate. Sun's last name is not Kwon, but Paik. It also furthers the theory I posted earlier that only Candidates can time travel, that's why Sun stayed in 2007 instead of fooming with Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid. DamCar said that that mystery would not be overtly answered this season, but that fans would get enough clues to piece together an answer.

I really loved this episode. The on Island stuff was great. Jack has not just become a man of faith, but a preacher of that faith. Miles and Ben are at their snarky best, and Hugo had great one liners as well. The confirmation of a few of our RA speculations was nice, but I cannot wait till we get a Richard centric episode. And Widmore in the sub? Nice. Now we find out if he wanted a live Locke to go back to the Island to stop MIB, or a dead Locke to go back For MIB to inhabit back when he told Locke that if he didn't return the wrong side would win the war...

But the off Island stuff made the episode for me. Ben taking care of his dad, sacrificing power to help Alex instead of the other way around...I can't wait to see how these two realities merge!

#56. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 10, 2010 8:26 AM

It was great to see Alex again, and not just because she's s'darn cute. I kept expecting Malcolm to pop out at any second.

And Ben's "Doctor" comment reminded me of Jack Sparrow's "Captain."

Miles' "Uh oh" and Jack's "Wanna try another stick?" - Best of the night.

Ben's redemption, I believe, was part of Jacob's plan the whole time. There really was a good man in there (just like Sayid? Hmmmm....), but it took an awful lot to drag it out and make Ben believe that he was a good man. I could see Ben being the one to make the ultimate sacrifice to save everyone else and the island if/when it comes to that.

BTW - loved Ben's digging his own grave and removing like 3 tablespoons of sand at a time. "Want some green beans?"

Don't those folks get a bit stinky? I mean, no showers and no deoderant and all that running through a tropical jungle and digging graves tends to make one a mite funky in the nethers...or does a Jacob touch take care of that too?

#57. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 10, 2010 8:33 AM

Great job with these episode recaps!!!! This site is a "must-read" for me once I have seen an episode. I love all the comments..... you guys help me remember important and minute points that I've forgotten.

FenwayBen your post #56....blew me away!!! I forgot about Widmore's and Locke's conversation, so it possible that Widmore is on team MiB. Could Miles have been a candidate...since he was also time jumping?

#58. Posted by: Alexis at March 10, 2010 8:55 AM

GRAA, Mac. I know you're a baseball fan and you might be superstitious so I'm not gonna talk about that string you have going on this season, but as a Lost fan, I don't believe it's a coincidence...so good luck!

Interesting that Jack has now become a man of faith (but I guess Locke hadn't become a man of science...cuz he's dead and all).

Ben lies to see another day. Amazing! I'm disappointed in him in the alt timeline, though. The Ben that I know would have let the principal write the recommendation for Alex and THEN pulled the trigger on his blackmail plan.

Elba is an acronym for Abel, the shepherd who became the first martyr when he was killed by Cain. Just sayin'.

Nice Nikki/Paolo diamonds tie-in. Planned all along or a shout-out to the fans, either way a nice touch.

How does Flocke know Jacob was hoping he was wrong about Ben before stabbing him? Further evidence that he and Jacob are halves of the same whole?

@16 Plain Simple. How did Widmore find the island? My guess is he knew the approximate physical location from the freighter's coordinates, and he could have figured out when the island was based on when the Ajira flight lost radio contact (and could have figured out from Ben's call to him from the docks or by keeping tabs on Sun after their meeting in London that they were both on the flight)...Or of course he could have just asked Mrs. Hawking...Or, worse, she could have been helping him find the island all along by leaving him the Ajira flight breadcrumbs. Moving on...

@53 opserc. Why doesn't Flocke kill or try to kill Ilana? I wondered the same thing. My interpretation is that it's proof that the real battle is over hearts and souls, so killing her accomplishes nothing.

#59. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 10, 2010 8:57 AM

@55 How Miles knew about the diamonds? He wasn't even on the island during the demise of the Nikki/Paulo duo. And he hadn't arrived yet to be there for teir funeral either.

He knew because he can see the deceased persons last thoughts. And since this was the first time he got close to the gravesite, he probably heard both of their thoughts. I.E. why he knew they were burried alive.

Also it would be interesting to hear what other thoughts he heard since there were so many dead people there!!

@43 the plane on hydra

That plane is pretty much non flyable, even by a epic pilot such as Lapidus. For one the cockpits windshield is busted, so its going to be kind of hard to fly period with that. Plus I'd be willing to bet that the landing gear suffered some form of major damage. But definitely a great thought!

#60. Posted by: Dharmaemployee108 at March 10, 2010 9:02 AM

@#59. Posted by: Scooby-Dude asks:
How does Flocke know Jacob was hoping he was wrong about Ben before stabbing him? Further evidence that he and Jacob are halves of the same whole?

It was Miles who told Ben that Jacob was hoping he was wrong about him…..

#61. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 9:07 AM

I have to say that I do think Flocke was knowingly trying to "unearth Ben's latent megalomania." He said, regarding Ben taking Jacob's place: "I can't think of anyone better for the job - can you?" This was an obvious appeal to Ben's ego. And isn't that what Flocke been doing to everyone - offering them what they want most in the world? Ben wants power more than anything else (at least up to this point in time). He admitted it in his speech to Iliana. However, I do tend to think, like Lost in Ra'anana (@11), that this episode was Ben's turning point. However, I would have liked to see more of a moment of decision for him - the way he immediately followed Iliana back to the beach made it seem like he had something else up his sleeve. Who knows? That's part of what makes Ben Ben. :)

If he has turned a corner, who better to fight the approaching Whidmore?? Maybe Ben will find redeption after all...

#62. Posted by: Christin at March 10, 2010 9:13 AM

GRAA Mac and great epi

I know everybody doesn't agree, but I love how TPTB are revealing details or answering questions a little at a time. And it doesn't bother me that some answers bring on new questions...this is what I've loved about this show since the begining...it forces you to think and to me, that's a good thing.

Anyway, reading the posts got me thinking...Both Widmore (via Eloise) AND Ben wanted Locke's body on AJIRA...why is that. Was it for smokey, was it for another reason...

Also, I have a feeling that Jacob's last words "they're coming" means everybody...Widmore, Eloise, Desmond, etc...every "important" person that has been on the Island and that was off it, was summoned back by Jacob. I think he wanted to say to smokey "hey, you might have killed me but this thing isn't over..."

#63. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at March 10, 2010 9:15 AM

As for Flocke & Co. getting off the island (I don't think it's so much "& Co." who will be getting off the island...more like just Flocke), could old pal Chuckie Widmore be coming to pick him up?

#64. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 10, 2010 9:21 AM

Excellent epi ... ah, the morning light (and a cup o' joe) once again brings sobriety, and an end to quirky drunken posts (maybe ;) ).

Lots of great commentary, and not much to add to what's been said above, but would like to mention again what beth said in #15 ... Frank Lapidus has been called out by Ilana as a candidate.

Had completely forgotten this, but Alaïs_Longthought dug deep into her mental trivia vault, and recalled that Ilana said Frank was a candidate (in a discussion with Bram ... back before he was dead I mean ... oh, maybe I need another cup! ;) ). She also pointed out that the illegible, but apparently not crossed out, name at 360 degrees on the lighthouse compass dial is possibly/probably "LAPIDUS."

So ... Ilana said there were six candidates left: Frank, Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and "Kwon" (Sun and/or Jin) ... I take it that Sayid has now been eliminated, whether Jacob (or anyone else) has crossed his name off the lighthouse and cave wall lists.

#65. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 9:33 AM

@55 GatorGal asked:

>Are we supposed to believe that Nikki and Paolo spoke to him [Miles] from their graves and told him "$8 million of diamonds are buried on top of me."? Does Miles' ability to "hear the dead" have any time limit? I wonder if he will talk to Adam/Eve in the cave in the end....

Hey, if he can read the ashes of an entity who may or may not be human, and read the stories of four soldiers who have been buried for four weeks (see Jughead), I'm prepared to believe he can read a couple of people buried 2-3 months ago.

Plus haven't we seen he has some capability to read the living, also, as when he asked Charlotte about when she returned to the island?

Somebody take him to the caves and see what we can find out about Adam and Eve.

#66. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 10, 2010 9:38 AM

What did we learn from last night's episode?

1. Miles is a grave robber.
2. Richard stated that Jacob's "touch" was a curse, which led him from chains of slavery to endless servitude on the island.
3. Jack finally realized that you have to go crazy in order to keep your sanity.
4. Ilana apparently has the mother of all daddy issues if Jacob is the closest thing to a father she has had in her life.
5. Ben would give up the promise of power for the chance of having a single friend.
6. Sun's role is now that of show set decorator.

#67. Posted by: welh at March 10, 2010 9:42 AM

@66/Cecil Rose - "Somebody take him to the caves and see what we can find out about Adam and Eve."

But that'll really suck for Sun and Jin if they're around when Miles does his reading! (okay, now jumping on the theory A&E are Jin/Sun ... my previous A&E=Jacob/MIB theory just doesn't seem plausible any longer ...)

#68. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 9:44 AM

"Richard dutifully (and stupidly) served Jacob for untold years because he was promised eventual answers and purpose."

Mac, that's almost sounding like us viewers.

Great recap.

xed

#69. Posted by: xedout at March 10, 2010 9:45 AM

@57 Fenway Ben propounded:

>It also furthers the theory I posted earlier that only Candidates can time travel, that's why Sun stayed in 2007 instead of fooming with Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid.

But are/were Charlotte, Faraday and Miles candidates? They foomed? And didn't the whole Lostie contingent, Rose, Bernard, Frogurt, and multiple red-shirts/sock puppets foom as well?

Remember the two red shirts who were killed by Claymore mines in 1954? The Fooming Losties ended up with the rest of the Losties before the flaming arrow attack. Was that supposed to have been in current time which the Foomers just happened to Foom into?

#70. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 9:46 AM

I found it odd that Ben commented on a porno mag in the stash at the beach; but then alt-Ben almost used an affair to oust the principal. Seems like a minor point, but TPTB very rarely film a scene for no reason; so is Ben some sort of prude, and is this important?

Best episode of the season, so far IMO.

#71. Posted by: runningman at March 10, 2010 9:49 AM

@#66. Posted by: Cecil Rose
I'm prepared to believe he can read a couple of people buried 2-3 months ago.

Mr. Rose, correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t Paulikki been buried for at least 3 years – the same amount of time that Clair’s been roaming around the jungle?

XO, S.

#72. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 9:50 AM

@72 Skipper:

Whoops, you're right, I'm getting my 2004's confused with my 2007's/

#73. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 9:53 AM

@67 welh "2. Richard stated that Jacob's "touch" was a curse, which led him from chains of slavery to endless servitude on the island."

Actually, he said it was a GIFT, not a curse. Right?

Everyone seems to be saying that being touched by Jacob means you can't die/be killed/kill yourself. But it seems that immortality was Jacob's gift to Richard. The gift might be different for everybody.

#74. Posted by: Christin at March 10, 2010 9:54 AM

Don't know whether to be sorry or relieved that Miles didn't turn to Hurely and say "By the way, they were alive when you buried them."

#75. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 9:55 AM

Interesting ... #30 Napoleon was exiled to the island of Elba. Elba spelled backwards is Able, like the the story of Cain and Abel. Of course the spelling is off, but the story is one of good and evil. 2 sons one good, one evil, vying for the attention of their father. Cain, who is the evil son, kills Abel, the good son. Hmmm.

#76. Posted by: Colleen Ounan at March 10, 2010 9:56 AM

You mean other than the mostly intact plane sitting there on a convenient runway?
Posted by: Nevermore
****
But the pilot, Lapidus, is on Team Jacob. Can't do much with a plane unless you have a pilot who knows the right coords. to get off the island. right? Taking off in a plane is too obvious and lack-luster. I think MIB's plans for leaving the Island are going to blow our socks off... I hope!
#50. Posted by: Skipper
****
That plane is pretty much non flyable, even by a epic pilot such as Lapidus. For one the cockpits windshield is busted, so its going to be kind of hard to fly period with that. Plus I'd be willing to bet that the landing gear suffered some form of major damage. But definitely a great thought!
Posted by: Dharmaemployee108
****


I know there are only 10 episodes left, and the whole idea of “the plane as escape” is somewhat off the table, but I keep thinking about a 1960‘s book and a couple of movies called “The Flight of the Phoenix” where everybody built a new plane from the scraps of an old one and flew out of the Sahara Desert. Let’s face it, as wild as this show has been, how about the BLACK ROCK suddenly takes wing like the “Flying Dutchman” and all our folks drift home on the clouds with Richard Wagner opera music blaring in the background . . ? . . .

#77. Posted by: davidrh at March 10, 2010 9:57 AM

Mac GRAA.
"Ilana tells Sun she's supposed to protect the six remaining candidates: Sun or Jin (Ilana doesn't know which), Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid".

this whole business with Kate is confusing me. she is #51 and therefore i suppose she is "technically" a candidate but we know she's REALLY not one right? she's not one of the all important numbers 4,8,15,16,23,42. and we know #4 is out and no longer a candidate.

So maybe Ilana is just refering to the 6 she must protect as Sun AND Jin (until she finds out), Jack, Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid?

thoughts anyone?

#78. Posted by: Ames at March 10, 2010 9:57 AM

Thanks Mac for the review.

So.....

there are candidates that do not know why there are there....

and then there are people like the Others who "think" they know why they are there...

and then there are the ones like Ilana.

She and maybe the ones that came with her seem to be actually working with Jacob. So do they know (Really Know) what is going on?

And I wonder why they would agree to work with him?

Was Ilana just recovering from a Jacob mission when he visited her in the hospital? and asking her to help again? Protect candidates? Or did he put her in the hospital to show his power and she has to do his bidding. Return to the island and protect the candidates.

Is she a willing worker? I would like to know this.

Also, Is the FDW still there? can't one just go and move it to escape the island? Who knows about this? Ben does. anybody else? Did Sawyer know that John was going down the well to move something?

And in the last supper picture, Ilana and Richard are on the side of the MIB team. Everybody else has sided up as we see them on the show.

Jack, Jin,(Not sure about him yet) Ben, Hurley, Sun, Miles, Lapidus on the "Good side" - and

Flocke, Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Richard and Ilana on the MIB side.

Very happy with the answers we are getting. But I still enjoy trying to figure things out

#79. Posted by: berkyo at March 10, 2010 9:59 AM

Dr.Linus referring to "ELBA"

ELBA can be rearranged to spell "ABEL"

oooooh...yeah, it's a stretch, I know.

#80. Posted by: alex_can_get_it at March 10, 2010 10:01 AM

@78/Ames - "thoughts anyone?"

Uh, yeah, #68 ... time for another cup I guess, still a bit punchy! ;)

#81. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 10:02 AM

@80 et al

ANTEA = Anyone Notice The Elba Anagram?

definitely need more coffee ...

#82. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 10:05 AM

@32 Michael Moncur - Richard DIDN'T say you couldn't die if Jacob touched you he said that Jacob touched him and gave him a gift. #74 Christin touched on this & i tend to agree different people, different gifts. ALSO rewatch the scene where Jacob hands Jack the candy bar. Jacob actually touches him. their fingers touch, it wasn't just thru the candy bar.

#83. Posted by: Ames at March 10, 2010 10:05 AM

@78/Ames & @81/ealgumby - I meant #65 ... REALLY need another cup ... later!

#84. Posted by: ealgumby at March 10, 2010 10:09 AM

@#65. Posted by: ealgumby
So ... Ilana said there were six candidates left: Frank, Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and "Kwon" (Sun and/or Jin) ... I take it that Sayid has now been eliminated, whether Jacob (or anyone else) has crossed his name off the lighthouse and cave wall lists.
I agree that Sayid is eliminated because when Ben reported to Ilana that Sayid killed Doged and Lennon, she asked him, “are you sure?” to which he replied, “he was standing over their bodies with a bloody dagger, so yeah, I’m sure.” I think that Ilana was looking for confirmation that Sayid was no longer a candidate which is why she needed Ben to be sure – after all Ilana is the one who handcuffed Ssayid and brought him on the Ajira flight to begin with.

#85. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 10:21 AM

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but.... the reason the dynamite didn't go off is likely because Jack lit it, and someone who Jacob has touched cannot kill himself.

If Jack had lit it and walked away, it likely would have killed RA.

#86. Posted by: LostInConnecticut at March 10, 2010 10:26 AM

#43 -- Thank you! I've been wracking my brain trying to think why Flocke was taking his flock to Hydra Island. It's got to be the intact plane sitting on the runway!

Mac, thanks for the musings about Ilana. I'm intrigued by your idea that Ilana *used* to look a different way and that she had some sort of facial reconstruction. I have no idea why they would do this .... And hope it isn't a stupid "reveal" (i.e. Ilana is really Claire!!, LOL). However, I am still intrigued by that scene last season with Ilana in bandages in the hospital. WTF???

I'm a longtime LOST fan, but this season is .... very CHALLENGING. I'm completely confused by the Sideways Stories. I know Darleton tells us to be patient -- that the connection between Sideways World and Island World will be made clear. However .... I'm confused!!!

I also thought Desmond was the person coming to the island ... but last night, it looks like Widmore is the man.


Meanwhile .... WHERE'S SAWYER?!

#87. Posted by: DC-Matt at March 10, 2010 10:37 AM

@74/ Christin:

At the Black Rock, Richard said Jacob touched him and although this is considered a "gift" it is actually a curse. The reason Richard wants to die is that he has devoted his life in the service to Jacob who claimed to have a plan, that everything was happening for a reason and that he would share the plan when the time was right. Since Jacob is now "dead," he now believes that his entire life was wasted and had no purpose.

#88. Posted by: welh at March 10, 2010 10:37 AM

Regarding the Candidates. Is Jacob's successor already chosen (by whom or what?) and is it just a matter of finding out who it is, or is it still up in the air who will be chosen? Is there some jury watching the Candidates (or the show) and deciding who to pick? I hope they don't ask us to call in at the end to pick our favorite Candidate.

@33, ogchavez: We already knew Dharma existed in the ALT world as well, since we saw the sunken barracks in LA X.

@36, Skipper: Your comment, priceless as well. :) Later on in the episode Richard says he was at the Temple and everyone there is dead. Jack was a little incredulous about that at first.

-When ALT Ben is tutoring Alex in the library the question she doesn't know the answer to is which parts of India the East India Company didn't control at the time of the Charter Act in 1813. The question is never answered on the show, so I wondered if the answer might be of importance in some way. Courtesy of Wikipedia http://tinyurl.com/yglp9wr : the Punjab, Sindh and Nepal.
I don't see any direct relevance to these specific places. Of course the whole issue of power, who has it, who wants it, and why, is very relevant to the episode, but these specific places.... anyone?

-If Jack can't die why did Jacob want him away from the Temple when Flocke arrived? Afraid he would change sides? Or was it just to protect Hurley? Someone above made a good point saying that Locke was touched by Jacob and still died, so perhaps just being touched by him is not enough to gain protection. Or was that MIB's loophole? Perhaps it only works on the Island? No, it worked fine for Michael off Island... until Jacob (?) told him his work was done. But that was Christian, so Christian is Jacob after all? Which makes sense, since MIB was trapped on the Island and we've seen Christian off-Island. Ow, too many intertwining thoughts here. Back to Locke: Perhaps Jacob's touch didn't work its protecting mojo on Locke since it was already used to more or less resurrect him after his fall?

#89. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 10, 2010 10:39 AM

Gotta say the best part was when Ilana told Ben " I'll take you". My heart just melted.

#90. Posted by: imnotdeaf_mozart at March 10, 2010 10:44 AM

@ #32 Richard did not say that anyone touched by Jacob COULDN'T die, just that they can't kill themselves. He obviously did not know that Jack had been touched by Jacob.


Council for the Plaintiff: Can you tell me where Jacob touched you?

Jack Shepard MD HB (Heavy breather): Right here.

Council for the plaintiff: Let the record show that the witness pointed to his hand.

#91. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 10, 2010 10:52 AM

@89 i said it before...i think different people, different gifts. maybe Jacob's gift to Locke was that we would walk again once he reached the island. not that Locke couldn't die.

Jack’s gift *might* be the same as Richard's, that he can’t die, but I think more so Jack didn’t die because he is one of the candidates (one of the “chosen”) and his destiny isn’t fulfilled yet. Maybe Jack’s gift is twofold that he can’t die AND....something else we haven’t been told yet.

#92. Posted by: Ames at March 10, 2010 10:56 AM

I wonder if the East India Trading Company will tie in with the Black Rock. The ship had originally set sail from England to Siam; the first mate's journal ended up near Madagascar.

#93. Posted by: Jeremy at March 10, 2010 10:57 AM

re:53 and 59;
When the Losties first crashed smokey only shook the trees near the beach but never actually appeared on the beach except as a dead person (Locke, Christian, etc) I don't think Smokey can go there for some reason. Maybe the beach sand has ashes in it. :)

Emerson should get another Emmy for last night. Incredible acting.

Am I wrong or did Alpert say that when jacob touched someone "they were given a gift?"
I don't remember him saying that they would ALL live forever by the touch ... but that was Alperts gift but not necessarily everyones elses gift, too. And if this is true, what "gift" could the other touched people have gotten? Can someone clarify EXACTLY what Alpert said?

#94. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 10, 2010 10:58 AM

let me amend my last comment..not that they can't ever die but they can't kill themselves....

#95. Posted by: Ames at March 10, 2010 10:59 AM

I haven't read all posts yet, so these may have been mentioned already.

@10/beth
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. If Jacob touches you, you are immortal and cannot kill yourslef. But others can kill you. Michael and Mikkal both did not die when they attempted suicide (walking through the fence was Mikkal's doing; pulling the grenade was also Mikkal's doing). Is this also related to MIB not being able to kill any of those who Jacob touched?

#14/Cecil
When Alpert says "don't believe a word he says" (about Jacob) I thought it was because Richard belived that MIB was using Jacob's dead body, but then I realized it was because he was disgusted with him. Also, when he said he was going to kill himself, I thought he was going to re-encarnate himself or something.

Were the 6 candidates confirmed? I don't think so.

It seems the sideways worlds match up as far as going to the bad vs good side. Last week Sayid went bad despite trying to be good. This week Ben started to go to the bad, but then chose the good.

Why didn't Flocke kill everyone at the camp? If it's because he can't kill candidates due to rules, then Ilana must know this and then what is the purpose of her protecting them? Unless it's to make sure they don't go over to the dark side. But Flocke is likely able to kill the spares (non-candidates) so why didn't he?

Where is Jin, Sawyer, Rose & Bernard???

If Alex exists, then either Rosseau left with her shortly after whe was born (and before Ben and Ethan kidnapped her), or the french team never made it to the island. Since they are French, how would they end up in LA anyway?

#96. Posted by: BEMH at March 10, 2010 11:01 AM

#91. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD

Jack doesn't even know that Jacob touched him. I'm pretty sure he won't remember a quick, casual encounter with a random person - but then again, he does remember meeting Desmond in a brief exchange at the stadium. Looks like Jack's mom was too busy getting plastic surgery to teach him not to talk to strangers. :P

#97. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 11:01 AM

Geez, I typed my post at #73 and by the time I wa done it was at 94 and everyone had the same thoughts. Sorry.
Still, can we get a quote on exactly what Alpert said?

#98. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 10, 2010 11:06 AM

@88 welh

Oh, gotcha! I missed that part. Thanks. :) I can certainly see why Richard would think it was a curse.

His speech on the black rock reminded me a little of how Christ's disciples might have felt after he died. Devoted their lives to following him, were promised answers/a purpose, then felt abandoned when he was killed. Does this point to the possibility of a Jacob resurrection?? :)

I still think that Jacob's gifts are different for everyone, though.

#99. Posted by: Christin at March 10, 2010 11:07 AM

re: 96 Smokey, for some reason, can't be on the beach in the form of the smoke monster or he would have killed the losties right after they crashed. He has never been seen on the beach as smoky

#100. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 10, 2010 11:10 AM

Also, great line about Ben's seeing Sayid standing over Dogen and Lennon and saying, "So yeah, I'm pretty sure..." he killed them. And then Miles using the same line to describe Ben standing over Jacob.

I don't think that the skin mag and Ben's willingness to use the principal's sordid affair were meant to show that Ben is a prude, just that, dare I say it?, he's an old-fashioned gentleman? An anachronism? A man born in the wrong time?

#101. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 10, 2010 11:12 AM

@91 LOST_MY_HEAD

ROFL!!!! That was great.

#96. Posted by: BEMH

Either the french team would have made it to the island so Ben and Russeau could concieve Alex (don't picture it, please), or Ben and Russeau could have had a fling in the Sideways World. Maybe Ben got his doctorate in France and hooked up with Russeau there. Either way, Sideways Ben does not seem to be aware that Alex is his daughter. But she HAS to be his daughter, or she would not be who she is... right?

#102. Posted by: Christin at March 10, 2010 11:16 AM

@98 "Still, can we get a quote on exactly what Alpert said?"

This is not exact, but he said 'When Jacob touches you, it's considered a gift...but it's not a gift at all, it's a curse'

This was right after he was inferring he cannot kill himself, somebody else has to.

#103. Posted by: 74 aka Steve at March 10, 2010 11:17 AM

I can just see the last scene now...Jack and Flocke sitting on the beach saying 'see, told you so!'

#104. Posted by: 74 aka Steve at March 10, 2010 11:19 AM

@100 I don't think Smokey can go near the water for some reason which also explains why he has been trapped on the island. Perhaps with seeing the island under water, it spells the end for Smokey and good prevails over evil?

#105. Posted by: srharmon at March 10, 2010 11:20 AM

#102. Posted by: Christin

Ben, in no way, shape or form fathered Alex.

Danielle Rousseau's baby daddy is.....

Maury, the cards please....

......Robert!

#106. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 11:24 AM

@89 Re: Punjab Sindh Nepal

Djinn Plane Hap Sub ?
Djinn Plane Ash Pub ?
Djinn Plane Asp hub ?

*** head explodes ***

Oh nevermind.

#107. Posted by: Egyptian Magician at March 10, 2010 11:24 AM

"...they wrote that the sideways story is about what would have happened had 815 not crashed. This is obviously not the main driving force behind the ALT world with all the background details for the characters being different as well."

Not necessarily -- the Alt-verse may indeed be what would have happened if the plane had not crashed. The original flashback universe is what happened BECAUSE the plane crashed -- Jacob (and his touchy fingers) were able to go into the past and alter it for the Losties.

What we have always thought of as "the past" is really "the past as manipulated by Jacob because of the crash."

#108. Posted by: Pelecanus at March 10, 2010 11:26 AM

#105, #100 ... Oooh, yeah. Good points there, especially how the island is under water in the Sideways world.

Re: Sideways World-- I'm still confused about its relation to Island World.

So, Jack, Claire, Kate and Ben seem to have semi-Happy Endings in Sideways World. They're not perfect. But they seem to have learned and made different choices ... Did we see Ben looking in a mirror last night (like the others have in their Sideways World stories?)

Of course, the Sideways World exception is Sayid, who seems not to be so happy and not to have changed so much. And he also did not ponder his reflection when he visited Nadia.

#109. Posted by: DC-Matt at March 10, 2010 11:29 AM

@100 I don't think Smokey can go near the water for some reason which also explains why he has been trapped on the island. Perhaps with seeing the island under water, it spells the end for Smokey and good prevails over evil?


well then, he's gonna have a hard time getting to they Hydra Station. I'm guessing that he CAN go the beach, but choose not to because Ilana knows too much. She probably knows how to stop him and/or kill him and he was hiding from her. Flock needs Ilana to die, that's why he tried to trick Ben into killing her...even left him a gun. Which, by the way, Ilana never questioned where that gun came from, hmmm.

#110. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 11:30 AM

Hi I've never posted before, but i've been reading for years. I thought when I read the blog everyone would be talking about this, but so far I haven't read it. I think that we got confirmation that Richard came on the Black Rock last night. FLocke said, "nice to see you out of those chains", then Richard had a moment with the chanins last night. Jack said, "have you been here before", Richard said, "yes, but after all these years I haven't been back".

Does anyone else thing he came on the Black Rock?

#111. Posted by: HugostheONE at March 10, 2010 11:31 AM

@100..et al

maybe smokey not being on the beach has to do with the water..what is it about water that prohibits him????

loved this episode and loved the beach reunion at the end, definitley made me miss the slo mo(a la mac)reunion scenes too :)

not sure who posted the comment about sdieways ben blackmailing the principal after he wrote the letter for alex but i was so sure that that was what he was going to do and surprised he didnt.

how the hell did miles dig up the diamonds w/o anyone seeing him?

maybe des, ellie, pen & charlie jr are on the sub with widmore?... a lot of characters coming in to play as the battle for the island comes to a showdown, could there be a third side, good, evil and ??....

after rewatching the "sundown" episode last night, flocke's look when he saw kate coming out of the temple was one of unsureness(if that's even a word) not confusion or suprise as some stated on last week blog. i took it as he was unsure of why she was coming along becasue she knows the real john is dead but he's willing to play along to try and see what her motives are.

or maybe some stated that kate looked confused when she walked out the temple but i didnt see confusion. she had enough sense to grab a rifle before leaving.

namaste!!!

#112. Posted by: tiffani at March 10, 2010 11:34 AM

GRAA Mac! As usual, thanks!

When they showed Dr. Linus at home, I was sure that we were going to see that he was with Annie. But, when I saw the microwave dinner...quick realization that he was a bachelor. I don't think it matters too much when Ben and his dad left the island. Seems as if Ben is Ben due to his whole existence (on or off the island) and his relationship with his dad. His dad's resentment (and poor parenting skills) shaped him from the start. In that brief dinner scene, I saw a dad that probably did the best he could in raising him alone and felt remorse and sadness that he perhaps couldn't give him more. In regards to Ben and his attitude towards his dad...devoted son. He obviously takes care of hsi ailing dad. (Said he wanted him to eat well so that he could be healthier.) Quite the change from suck in the poisonous gases you SOB. I liked seeing Ben like that. I think it wasn't so much the island and the power, but the love and devotion of his father that makes this a better life for ole' Ben. Actually, seems more like redemption for his dad.

#113. Posted by: Boodle at March 10, 2010 11:38 AM

@111 - ahhhhh yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone got that. RFTBR (Richard's From The Black Rock)

Also, ANTD (Anyone Notice The Diamond?)

AHHHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! (You're welcome davidrh)

And Cecil - totally agree with your post #75. My thought exactly! Would have LOVED to have seen the looks on their faces finding out NikkiPaulo were buried alive.

#114. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 10, 2010 11:39 AM

@110 I still think Smokey has an issue with water. When talking about where they (Ilana and gang) should go since they can't go back to the Temple, Ben suggests the beach since they are familiar with the surroundings and "the water (ocean) is at our backs."

#115. Posted by: srharmon at March 10, 2010 11:39 AM

In the lighthouse Jack and hurley needed to signal someone that was coming to the island. Then widmore shows up?? Maybe 360 was widmore.

#116. Posted by: Kevin at March 10, 2010 11:40 AM

Great ideas by many.

What I want to know is where is Sawyer and Jin?

Kate is someone because she was touched by Jacob. Even if her number is 51. So, I think she is a candidate.

#117. Posted by: dk at March 10, 2010 11:42 AM

@ # 102
Alex isn't really Ben's daughter. he stole her from Frenchie and raised her but they are not genetically connected. Therefore no need to picture Frenchie and Bug Eyes gettin it on!'

#118. Posted by: Alex B. at March 10, 2010 11:43 AM

@ #97 Skipper - Jack doesn't even know that Jacob touched him. I'm pretty sure he won't remember a quick, casual encounter with a random person - but then again, he does remember meeting Desmond in a brief exchange at the stadium.

To the best of my recolection, Jack has no idea what Jacob looks like so of course he wouldn't remember ever being touched briefly by a stranger.

#119. Posted by: DW at March 10, 2010 11:44 AM

@97 Skipper observe:

>ack doesn't even know that Jacob touched him. I'm pretty sure he won't remember a quick, casual encounter with a random person...

More importantly, since Jack has no idea what Jacob looks like, he has no way to connect that random stranger encounter with Jacob. Should he ever actually meet Jacob, or see his image, he might make the connection - "Hey, it's that guy that handed me the candy bar!"

#120. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 10, 2010 11:44 AM

#97. Posted by: Skipper

Too true and I do realize that, but the fact of the matter is that even though he probably won't REMEMBER it, he will know that it happened by now, thus the dynamite performance in the Black Rock (AH HA see what I did there.........)

Council for the defense: Isn't it true that you only met Jacob once and that was years ago when you had horrible hair.

Jack Shepard MD WB (Whiny Bitch): Yes, but he had this mirror...

Council for the defense: No further questions

#121. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 10, 2010 11:48 AM

@119 DW: @120 Me

I see great minds think alike.

#122. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 10, 2010 11:51 AM

#122

You guys are killin' me! lol Anyway, in all seriousness, as I said, I am aware that Jack will not remember a chance meeting with some random guy (coughs to cover saying the name Desmond) but after what Richard told him there was a spark of recognition of the fact of being "touched by Jacob." He recognizes that he is special from the combination of that talk and seeing his home in the lighthouse mirror.

#123. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 10, 2010 11:56 AM

I don't think Jacob's touch marks a person as immortal, but rather prevents their death until after they have completed the task that jacob has "assigned" to them.

#124. Posted by: kevooon at March 10, 2010 12:02 PM

@119, 120, 121....

Jack thinks that the dynamite won't kill him because he's special enough to be #23 on the lighthouse contraption - NOT because he knows he's been touched by Jacob. only us, the audience, MIB and Sawyer know that Jacob touched Jack. Sawyer was told by MIB that everyone on the cave wall was touched at one point or another..."he probably came to you when you were vulnerable...."

(I didn't include Richard as someone who knows Jack was touched because I don't think he has as much information as we thought he did).

#125. Posted by: Skipper at March 10, 2010 12:08 PM

DANCID

Did Anyone Notice Carl In Detention?

#126. Posted by: jiggy at March 10, 2010 12:10 PM

He made the connection. Remember, he may make stupid decisions on the island, but he is a doctor, and speaking as someone studying medicine, it ain't for dummies.

#127. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 10, 2010 12:12 PM

Re: 110
As stated in post 94, seems Smokie can't be on the beach in smoke form but has been on the beach in Dead People form (Christian, Locke, etc) He hasn't killed anyone in DP form only Smokie that's why he didn't kill Ilaina on the beach at the statue or last night (didn't kill Ap at the statue either)
If he stays in Flocke form he may just be able to cross on top of water (boat/raft/SUBMARINE?) to the Hydra station but probably not as Smoky.

#128. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 10, 2010 12:12 PM

And remember, water was Jacob's element to heal

#129. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 10, 2010 12:15 PM

@ FenWay Ben (#66)

THANKS for answering my question about Sun not fooming with others on Ajira flight. I agree that it is JIN who is the candidate and not her. That means that Ben's candidacy status went away a while ago, too since he (like Sun) did not time travel with the rest of the now-known candidates.

#130. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 12:20 PM

First and foremost, I appreciated all of Mac's main points and cannot quibble except that I was more moved by Ben's redemption and less, but not completely less, cynical about a future backslide. I was particularly moved by Ben's admission in following Flocke that "No one else will have me" that Ilana, after thinking (mind reading?) says, a little reluctantly, "I'll have you."

This episode led me to think of Sideways as serving as a make believe place where the principal characters have a second chance to realize their true natures.

A point of clarification: My memory of Ben allowing Alex to be shot was one of Ben making a desperate bluff. His look of shock when Keamey actually shoots Alex seems to confirm this. He didn't sacrifice Alex for the island because he didn't actually think Keamey would go through with it. But he was not acting out of concern for the island but for his mistakenly perceived role as the island's protector, as Jacob's chosen one.

I liked also the fact that not only were Roger and Ben involved with the Djarma initiative, but did they indicate that they had actually been on the island? I can't remember. It was also interesting that both remembered it as a good time in their lives. Roger instead of being bitter about being a janitor, had enjoyed helping this grand experiment and evidently his relationship with his son Ben was a loving one.

All of which reinforces that TPTB keep insisting that LOST is a study of character and the choices people make. All the weird stuff is just something to propel the story and confront the characters with choices.

And William Atherton continues to be my favorite bad guy.

#131. Posted by: August Paul at March 10, 2010 12:27 PM

@August Paul: Agreed re: William Atherton. Not a bad career for that guy: Walter Peck in "Ghostbusters," Jerry Hathaway in "Real Genius," Dick Thornberg in "Die Hard."

#132. Posted by: mac at March 10, 2010 12:33 PM

Ben, in no way, shape or form fathered Alex.

#106. Posted by: Skipper

Yeah, ok I knew that. :) Haha. Sorry. So hard to keep all this straight in my head.

Maybe I'll have whatever ealgumby is having... :)

#133. Posted by: Christin at March 10, 2010 12:35 PM

First things first (or MIF), GRAA Mac!

@96 BEMH "Since they are French, how would they end up in LA anyway?"

My thoughts exactly. It makes me hope that Jacob is involved in these people's lives because it would all feel very contrived if that were not the case. Why Danielle would move to L.A. is a valid question and deserves an answer. But it was good seeing Alex again so I won't dwell on that too much.

As for the Dr Linus timeline, are we to assume that Ben was still shot by Sayid in this version of his life? Is that why Roger Linus feels regret for not giving Ben more? I guess my question really is, did the Oceanic survivors cross paths with the Dharma folks in the 1970s? Is that just an assumption we have to make or is that fact? Or am I having an ANTP moment?!?

I bring this up because while reading the posts (@111 HugosTheOne) it hit me that there are certain things that we accept as fact but are never really confirmed explicitly. Richard being from the Black Rock is one. We assumed he was because the evidence pointed in that direction. But it was never confirmed until last night. Remember that for a long time it was the Island that was pulling the strings...until we were introduced to Jacob. The Oceanic survivors (and Ben) all have lives that went in different directions well before the crash of flight 815. Makes me wonder if the alternate timeline is a continuation of the 1970s timeline or something different entirely.

#134. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at March 10, 2010 12:36 PM

@108 - Pocahanus:

According to the official LOST website at ABC:

"A flash sideways is not a flashback, flash-forward or an alternate timeline. It posits what would have happened if Oceanic flight 815 didn't crash on the island but instead landed in Los Angeles."

#135. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 12:42 PM

@126 jiggy reported:

>Did Anyone Notice Carl In Detention?

No! Good catch. So that makes:

Arzt
Karl
Alex
Uncle Rico/Roger Linus

Anybody else revisited in this ep?


#136. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 12:45 PM

@134 I too think that the Flash Sideways could be a continuation of the 1970's timeline, which would mean that is when the changes in the lives of the losties in the Flash Sideways started...in other words the bomb truly worked. Now the losties left on the island need to catch up with their Flash Sideway's self. Could it be their death that will accomplish that? Remember Juliett seemed to be converging with her Flash Sideways self as some have mentioned when she talked about "going dutch" as she died on the island.

#137. Posted by: HugosTheOne at March 10, 2010 12:45 PM

I think the "official" flash-sideways definition needs revision, and I bet Darlton would love to take a crack at that. As we've seen, the flash-sideways go *way* beyond using Oceanic's safe arrival as a lynchpin. As far as I'm concerned, that wasn't the fork in the road.

#138. Posted by: mac at March 10, 2010 12:46 PM

@131 August Paul, @132 mac

>And William Atherton continues to be my favorite bad guy.

I kept waiting for Ben to say:

"And I'm going to send YOU a nice GIFT BASKET."

#139. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 12:49 PM

@109 DC Matt and #131 August Paul:

While the sideways flashes have shown us that redemption is possible and that the characters do have choice, I believe it has also shown that the TRUE NATURE of who these people are (and how they instinctively react) has NOT changed:

Isn't it intersting that in the whole Destiny -vs- Free Will philosophy of LOST, the characters we have seen so far in the alt/sideways world are still behaving/reacting as they always have despite different circumstances:

Jack still fixes
Kate still runs
Claire still nurtures
Locke still struggles
Sayid still kills/hurts
Ben still schemes

#140. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 1:01 PM

Does the reunion at the end confirm that the A Bomb + Island Power Source, did indeed work and propel Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Sayid back to 2007 where Ben, Flocke, Ilana, Frank and Sun have been all along? And does this also suggest that the disappearance in mid-air of Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate and Sayid back to 1977 to reunite with Sawyer and Jin et al give us the indication that the six candidates were six of those seven? That Jin, not Sun, is one of the candidates.

#141. Posted by: August Paul at March 10, 2010 1:02 PM

This was one of my favourite episodes ever!

The quality of character (agent) development on Lost is so much more complex and interesting compared to other series.

The writers clearly decided for quality instead of making money until there are not enough remaining viewers.

#142. Posted by: Margot at March 10, 2010 1:16 PM

Hey Mac - Great Recap. As Always!

I've been reading the comments and I think Jacob's touch marked the candidates, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're all immortal now, ala Richard Alpert. I also don't think that his touching them gave them their "abilities" - remember, Hurley was seeing and talking to dead folks before he met Jacob in the cab. We also don't have any indication that Jacob ever met Miles, and Miles had his ability since childhood.

Sorry - just my $0.02 worth.

Keep up the great work Mac!

#143. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at March 10, 2010 1:23 PM

Mac.....You should apologize to and thank Artz for his assiness. Without Artz we would have no PiecesofArtz and by not having been touched by Pieces we all may never have existed in this timeline or blogline or whatever.

#144. Posted by: lostsox at March 10, 2010 1:26 PM

mild SPOILER ALERT ********************
____________________________

The omnipotent Damon and Carlton have said that the answer to the question "What IS the island?" can be summed up in one word that has:

four letters (of course)
one vowel
no As
no Es

We are to get the answer mid-way through the season, most likely in E9. So....anyone wanna play? Here are some initial possibilities:

soul
show (i.e. Truman-esque)
film
bomb
cork
ship
port
link
host
tomb
lock
fold
post

#145. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 1:27 PM

If Jacob's warning to Hurley was that "someone bad is coming" - can we assume that someone is Widmore? And if Widmore is the bad guy, does this mean Ben has been the good guy all along?

#146. Posted by: Vikki at March 10, 2010 1:28 PM

@141 I was also wondering if Juliet's "it worked" meant that the bomb sent 1977 folks to 2007 so that everyone is now on the same timeline. If not, how to explain Jack and Hurley reuniting with Ilana's folks?

#147. Posted by: srharmon at March 10, 2010 1:29 PM

One more thing: instead of good vs. evil -- wouldn't it make more sense if it's all about destiny/fate (Jacob) vs. free will/independence (MIB)? I think this assumption would have a much stronger correlation to the reoccurring 'men of faith' vs. 'men of science' theme.

#148. Posted by: Margot at March 10, 2010 1:32 PM

@ #145:

Sorry - SOUL has two vowels, not one. Hope you can figure it out. I, personally, am dying to know the answer.

#149. Posted by: Mister_Grimm at March 10, 2010 1:36 PM

@lostsox: You make an excellent point. In retrospect, it's clear the fabric of the universe is bound by the power -- and the assiness -- of Arzt. Seems only fitting that a name I can *never* spell correctly on first attempt would be oh so very important ;)

#150. Posted by: mac at March 10, 2010 1:43 PM

I don't think Jack has become a man of faith, more a man who has finally accepted the fact that supernatural forces are at work, and that he has a part to play in their plans. He's learning to deal with that. He is learning about the rules, eventually he might use them to his advantage.

Now that I know that in the ATL, Ben and his dad were on the Island, that kind of messes up a theory I had.

I was thinking, Jack will be the one who saves everyone (well, not everyone) in the end. The end, that leads up to the beginning of the ATL. The ATL is technically not an ATL. The current timeline will somehow end and be reset to a previous moment in time. Maybe Jack destroys the mechanism of the FDW. The FDW may be keeping the space/time-altering force within the Island subdued. When it is destroyed, the bottled up power is released, causing the reset of time to just before the Jughead incident. But this time, something different happens. It works, like Juliette said. The incident causes the Island to sink and everyone who has been brought to the Island, now living or dead, their souls/minds are reset to the time before they were 'touched' by Jacob or any other leader.

The conversation between Doctor Linus and his dad just messed that theory up :(

Somewhere in the near future, I see Hugo speaking to a large crowd of Island folk, repeating the words that Ghost Jacob, standing next to him, dictates.

#151. Posted by: Mischa at March 10, 2010 1:46 PM

mild SPOILER ALERT ********************
____________________________


The omnipotent Damon and Carlton have said that the answer to the question "What IS the island?" can be summed up in one word that has:

four letters (of course)
one vowel
no As
no Es


How about "myth"?

#152. Posted by: sandivon at March 10, 2010 1:48 PM

IF Jacob's touch marks you as a candidate.... when Jacob visited Jin & Sun at their wedding, which one of them did he actually touch? Does anyone have access to that episode?

#153. Posted by: LostInConnecticut at March 10, 2010 1:50 PM

I like "ship"... or "bull"... or some combination of the two.

#154. Posted by: LockeBox at March 10, 2010 1:55 PM

@149 Mister Grimm:

Dooh! (smacks head). My bad!
Thanks for catching that one.
Any other ideas?
My $ is on "port".

#155. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 1:55 PM

@152 Sandivon:

I like it! Here are a few other possibilities:

body
fork (like fork in the road)
jury (plays nicely with redemption)
exit
plug

If I were a bettin' gal, I'd put it on "port" though

#156. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 2:01 PM

My thoughts on why Ben is a better person in the Alt Timeline is because in the Alt Timeline the Oceanic Flight 815 never crashed. Therefore Sayid never tried to kill Ben when he was a child & Kate never took him to the "others" to have him healed. The others warned Kate that Ben would be changed forever. I think that is what made Ben evil in the first place, before that he was a sweet kid & was trying to help Sayid.

#157. Posted by: Totally Lost at March 10, 2010 2:02 PM

Favorite line....

After Ilana finds out that Ben killed Jacob. She tells Ben that Jacob was like a father to her---Miles looks at Ben and says..."uh oh"

That just cracks me up!

#158. Posted by: gg at March 10, 2010 2:02 PM

In thinking about which Kwon is meant to be a candidate, I have a thought (which may or may not be correct, but anyhoo...)

If I am remembering correctly, in Korean culture I don't think that the bride automatically takes her husband's surname upon marriage. She is still known by her family's name, except when speaking specifically about her husband and/or children. If this is correct, then it would have to be Jin that is the true candidate.

Also, I would totally watch any show that would put Hurley, Miles, and Lapidus together for a weekly poker/snark fest.

#159. Posted by: Tinkerbean at March 10, 2010 2:04 PM

My theory on the two timeline threads is the paradox created by the detonation of the bomb in 1977 in the first place and explains the current state of things on the island and the sideways flashes.

Ergo... what's happening on the island now is if the bomb detonation failed and what's happening in Sideways is if the blast succeeded in completely dissipating the magnetic energy.

The problem is that for the Oceanic Six to ever get to the island in the first place, the 1977 bomb detonation would have had to have failed. So, Sideways is what might have been, but really can never be because of that paradox.

But I can't wait to see how they deal with this issue as I think it probably gets to the heart of the final conflict and probably someone's final sacrifice on behalf of everyone else.

So who have we NOT seen in Sideways world? All of a sudden, the needle swings in one particular direction.

#160. Posted by: Hector Savage at March 10, 2010 2:06 PM

Alternate Best Lines
Why would I want 3.2 million when there's Nikki and Paolo's diamonds right over there? (Miles)
He was standing [over the body] with a bloody knife. Yeah, I'd say he did it. (Miles echoing Ben's ironic line about Sayid killing Dogen and Lennon)
Uh oh! (Miles.. this was an awesome 'You in trou-ble' line)


@16: Plain Simple
-They're really stuffing a lot of comedy into this one. Miles' comment about Nikki, Paolo, and their diamonds was great. I guess Miles has really changed, since he didn't go for the money.

Miles didn't need Ben's manipulative 'promise' of the money when he had the diamonds right there. 8 million in diamonds in the hand beats Ben's 3.2 million bush league offer. ;)


I think Widmore is on MiB's team. MiB promised to get the others off the island. The Ajira plane did land, but I thought it crashed and could not fly. Didn't a palm tree through the windshield impale the co-pilot? I think the mode of transportation off the island is Widmore's sub. And...I think eventually that when it's time to go, Frank will be the one driving it.


I wonder if Locke was selected by Jacob is purposeful in this regard: after surviving that 8 story fall, Locke is wheelchair bound. Now as a vessel for MiB, if he gets off the island, will Locke's body revert back to its wheelchair restricted state. This would imprison MiB in the confines of Locke's body rather than the confines of the island. If MiB had thought himself restricted on the island,imagine him in the confines of Locke's wheelchair-bound body.

#161. Posted by: Gumbo at March 10, 2010 2:16 PM

I need to rewatch the episode after reading all of these comments. I thought it was interesting that Miles defined his abilities very clearly last night. He said that he could see the manner in which the dead person died and their last thoughts before dying as long as he was near the body. Assuming this is true (since we know Miles has con man tendencies), this could prove interesting. My brain is on stall. Am I remebering correctly that Miles is Pierre Chang's son? And remember that Miles was also a part of the the freighter folk who were Team Widmore. This could explain Miles's indifference to Ben's suffering last night (considering the Ben/Widmore dynamic). Maybe Miles is going to turn Ben over to Widmore, which was the original mission of the freighter folk...am I right? I would love to see Ben go down in a smoking fire fight to protect the island and to protectthe ultimate candidate. This would have to be in the finale, though, I love Ben's character too much to have him go out any sooner. Have I said this week that I LOVE this show?!

#162. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 10, 2010 2:25 PM

Mac........oooh I forgot "z before t except after d."

#163. Posted by: lostsox at March 10, 2010 2:42 PM

I still want to know what Miles saw/heard from Sayid when he was dead.

As for Adam and Eve, I think they're Rose and Bernard, because they don't have the daddy issues (and that makes them fit the adam 'n eve mold HOW, exactly??) I don't know, I just do...

...and what about the kids? Aaron, Sun and Jin's daughter, etc? The ones that are not on the island?

#164. Posted by: sandivon at March 10, 2010 2:44 PM

A few WHAT IFS:

...Juliet is Jack's "baby mama" (aka: David's mom) but the reason she and Jack are no longer together is b/c Juliet left Jack for another man. A hottie named James Ford!

...The Locke we saw in lat night's ep (as well as in The Substitute) is really Flocke/Smocke. Either he got his wish and got off the island or he has been inhabiting Locke's body for longer than we thought.

Also, ABC has posted a NEW SNEAK PEEK of next week's episode. This one features Claire and Kate having a conversation about Squirrel Baby. Check it out here:

http://abc.go.com/shows/lost
(click video titled "Sneak Peek: Lost with Claire's pic)

#165. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 2:46 PM

Funniest line. When Miles threw Linus' words back in his face after reading Jacob's ashes (sounds like a book -- oh wait, it was "Angela's Ashes")and found out that it was Linus who killed Jacob.

Ilana: Are you sure?

Miles: He was standing over the body with a bloody knife, so yeah, pretty sure.

Same response Linus used after he told Ilana and company that Sayid killed Dogen and friend and she asked him if he was sure.

My apologies if others have already posted about this. I thought it was hysterical. Love Miles!!

#166. Posted by: grannyvi at March 10, 2010 2:47 PM

The Lost writers do love their religious allusions. The story of Ben has turned into a true Christian redemption story. Ben has done some of the worst things possible-he deserves to die. The church teaches us that we all participate in the killing of Christ through our sins, and of course Ben has participated in Jacob's murder directly. But just as through Christ's death we are all offered forgiveness, so Ben is given his shot at redemption. And when Ben says he is sorry, just as the Church is supposed to do, Ilana says "I will have you." In Romans 6 it says "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord."

#167. Posted by: Sara at March 10, 2010 2:52 PM

I enjoy reading your roundup more than I enjoy watching the show. Thanks again, Mac.

#168. Posted by: Dan at March 10, 2010 3:02 PM

@146 Vikki asked:

>If Jacob's warning to Hurley was that "someone bad is coming" - can we assume that someone is Widmore? And if Widmore is the bad guy, does this mean Ben has been the good guy all along?

I thought he was talking about FLocke coming to kill everyone who didn't defect. Especially since he said it was
'too late to warn the temple' which was true for FLocke, but not for Widmore.

#169. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 3:02 PM

#43 -- Thank you! I've been wracking my brain trying to think why Flocke was taking his flock to Hydra Island. It's got to be the intact plane sitting on the runway!

Isn't the Hydra station where they have cable tv and can catch the Red Sox World Series games?

#170. Posted by: Gumbo at March 10, 2010 3:05 PM

#114 - AHHHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! - BunnyLover

Thanks, Kiddo. I’ve been away from the computer for several hours.
(However - I KNEW it would eventually come to this!)

#171. Posted by: davidrh at March 10, 2010 3:07 PM

@157 Totally Lost proclaimed:

>My thoughts on why Ben is a better person in the Alt Timeline is because in the Alt Timeline the Oceanic Flight 815 never crashed. Therefore Sayid never tried to kill Ben when he was a child & Kate never took him to the "others" to have him healed. The others warned Kate that Ben would be changed forever. I think that is what made Ben evil in the first place, before that he was a sweet kid & was trying to help Sayid.

I'm with mac on this one. If something changed, and produced all the results we see in the off-island time line, I think it had to change much earlier than the flight of 815, even granted that the 815 crash started a chain of events that included time travel back to before 2004. How would any of that make Roger Linus a better person?

#172. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 3:10 PM

Preppy, college alt-Alex is as mega hot as jungle rifle-carrying Alex!!!!!
Arzt is a dumbass!!

#173. Posted by: mapache at March 10, 2010 3:18 PM

All I could think of last night was Bill Murray's line "yes it is true...this man has no dick!!!" .

I also thought the look shared between Jack and Ben at the end was interesting

Locke is not going to be happy that Ben chose the other side.

#174. Posted by: weepict at March 10, 2010 3:23 PM

A lot of comments about Flocke and the airplane on the Hydra Island. Somehow, the idea of a being that can manifest itself as lighting-containing killer smoke snakes or any handy dead body does not strike me as the sort of being that is going to need an airplane. MIB is a captive and he wants to go home, but of what is he a captive, just the physical island? And where is home for such a being? An epic story such as this with archetypes such as our principals is going to need a much bigger and more metaphysical plane to get the personification of evil back to where he belongs or where he longs to be. Even if he/she/it is the personification of something else.

#175. Posted by: August Paul at March 10, 2010 3:34 PM

@109: DC-Matt
Did we see Ben looking in a mirror last night (like the others have in their Sideways World stories?)

Ben sees his reflection in the microwave when he cooks dinner for his dad.


@115: srharmon
Ben suggests the beach since they are familiar with the surroundings and "the water (ocean) is at our backs."
Ocean at their back reduces the sides one has to defend.

@130 and @131 I was wondering when someone would bring up Atherton. Especially funny to me is that as the EPA Walter Peck in Ghostbusters there were numerous jokes about his name (Pecker and '...until Dickless turned off the power grid.... Is this true? Yes, this man has no ...), and as the Principal his inappropriate behavior is because the married man couldn't keep it away from the school nurse.

And one of my favorite movie lines is from Real Genius. Val Kilmer says, "In the immortal words of Socrates, 'I drank what?'"


mild SPOILER ALERT ********************

The omnipotent Damon and Carlton have said that the answer to the question "What IS the island?" can be summed up in one word that has:

four letters (of course)
one vowel
no As
no Es

DIRT
ROCK

What is an island but a pile of dirt or rock surrounded on all sides by water?

TOLL (the toll one pays the ferryman)

#176. Posted by: Gumbo at March 10, 2010 4:02 PM

#175 August Paul posited "...the idea of a being that can manifest itself as lighting-containing killer smoke snakes or any handy dead body does not strike me as the sort of being that is going to need an airplane."

Isn't that pretty much the gist of the "God" character in ST5: TFF who needed help to traverse the universe and good ol' James Tiberius asked, "Excuse me. Why does God need a starship?"

#177. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 10, 2010 4:07 PM

@115 srharmon / 176 Gumbo
Ben suggests the beach since they are familiar with the surroundings and "the water (ocean) is at our backs."
Ocean at their back reduces the sides one has to defend.

Another echo of earlier seasons, when the original Losties thought the same thing until they got raided by the seafaring others - and now they back up against the water, only to have Widmore sneak up in a sub.

Also, the airplane makes sense for getting DeadLocke's followers off the island, if not himself, but begs the question of what the "home" is he's returning to - tell me it's not L.A.!

#178. Posted by: LockeBox at March 10, 2010 4:13 PM

@145

What IS the island?

It's a "gift."

Just my two cents.

#179. Posted by: smitr at March 10, 2010 4:34 PM

@14 Cecil Good point about Richard telling Hurley "Don't believe a word he says" Disappointment with Jacob? I agree with Skipper (@51) here. My thought was that all the manifestations of Jacob were not Jacob at all but Smokey in all its forms. Richard following the wrong guy.

@16 Plain Simple: It did look like Ben was up to his old sneaky self in Sideland, and if it hadn't been for the threat to Alex, he would likely have gone through with it. And, after all, our principal was being very naughty and so perhaps should have been replaced by a compromised though otherwise superior Ben, but when presented with the threat to Alex, Ben did the almost right thing, almost because naughty principal could continue with his naughty ways. Others talked about Ben being true to his nature, the nature we had come to expect of him, but this is about redemption.

@22 Great comment about Ben gassing Sideways-Roger again, this time with life preserving oxygen. Kudos to the writers for including this.

@45 GatorGal I agree that it is Jin that is the "Kwon candidate" because she stayed in 2007. And I liked your point about Michael's failed suicide as well (@54)

@53 opserc as to why flocke didn't metamorph into smokey and kill everyone on the beach. Perhaps he can't if one of them is going to be the candidate. He certainly suggested to Ben that Ben get the rifle and do the obvious.

@70 Cecil: Not all Foomers are candidates, but those people who were not on the island during those fateful days of 1977 who were also candidates were foomed there from their Ajira flight.

@96 BEMH, I don't think that Sayid necessarily went to the "bad side" in Sidewaysland last week. He was kidnapped by Keamey and his ruffians and then told to keep paying up (do we believe Keamey when he told Sayid that Omar lied about paying the loan back?) Keamey then not so subtly suggested that harm would come to Sayid's two nephews if he didn't pay up. At this point, it was obvious to me as well as to Sayid that there was no way Sayid could protect the children other than by killing Keamey and the ruffians. Even so, it was one of the ruffians who shot first, killing the other, Omer, due to some quick manoeuvering by Sayid. Finishing Keamey off does not qualify Sayid for the dark side, it seems to me. Sayid looked truly sad about his forced decision when he said, "Sorry, I just can't."

#180. Posted by: August Paul at March 10, 2010 4:34 PM

@172 CECIL:

I totally agree that last night's reveal about Ben and his Dad having been on the island (and off) in Sideways World means that something changed well before flight the 815 timeframe.

So...if Locke is a lynchpin in everything, maybe that point in time is his premature birth? Remember his mother got hit by an unidentified driver which caused her to deliver early. Maybe this driver is someone like Jacob (or Widmore?) that knocked things off kilter on purpose. Kind of a strategic preemptive strike to try and prevent future events.

#181. Posted by: GatorGal at March 10, 2010 4:52 PM

@ 87 DC-Matt
Mac, thanks for the musings about Ilana. I'm intrigued by your idea that Ilana *used* to look a different way and that she had some sort of facial reconstruction. I have no idea why they would do this .... And hope it isn't a stupid "reveal" (i.e. Ilana is really Claire!!, LOL). However, I am still intrigued by that scene last season with Ilana in bandages in the hospital. WTF???

Ilana has Ana Lucia's snarl, maybe it's her.

#182. Posted by: dbnbc at March 10, 2010 5:07 PM

William Atherton in "Real Genius"

- 6 Degrees of Separation -

Let's not forget Jon Gries (Roger Linus) in "Real Genius".

They were polar opposites (MIB/Jacob) as scientists.

#183. Posted by: ANON2 at March 10, 2010 5:09 PM

@145 Four letters, one vowel: MIND (as in it's all in someone's mind?)

#184. Posted by: peglet at March 10, 2010 5:09 PM

@181: GatorGal - I totally agree that the sideways world originated well before flight the 815 timeframe.

Right or wrong (probably the latter) here is what popped into my head when watching the ep:

Given the reveal that Ben and daddy were in Dharma even in sideways world, I assumed they left the island when Dr. Chang was evacuating the island during last season's finale. I am thinking they made it off before the incident in the flash-sideways, and the incident is what caused the island to be underwater in the alt reality (remember, in the underwater scenes of the island, the Dharma barracks were visible). So in alt-world, at the time of the incident, the Dharma people either died or got off the island, and at that point the island ceased to exist because it got submerged. So Ben and dad got off in time in 1977, and lived their alt lives up until the point the story picked up last night. There could be a minor timeline discrepancy with certain events (i.e., the purge...was it before or after the incident?) but this could be easily explained away.

In general what I am thinking is that Jacob touched these people to 'push' them in the right direction...but instead of being a gift, it was a curse like Richard said. Total manipulation and complete disregard for free will and people's lives. The flash-sideways could represent how their lives would have (i.e., should have) panned out had Jacob not touched them. So, if Jacob 'cursed' these people and their lives turned out bad because of his influence, it lends itself to Jacob being the bad guy. Maybe in the end, as their reward for conquering bad-guy Jacob, they wind up "rewinding" their lives back to the time of the incident (1977) and essentially starting over at that time living their "normal" / "non-Jacob-influenced" lives, which is what we're seeing in the flash-sideways universe.

Ouch...nose bleed!

#185. Posted by: Big Al at March 10, 2010 5:09 PM

re to the smoke monster not being able to form on the beach.
Wasnt Jacob's lair (the giant foot) on the beach where Bram and his crew got smoked?

#186. Posted by: day1lostfanatic at March 10, 2010 5:10 PM

The omnipotent Damon and Carlton have said that the answer to the question "What IS the island?" can be summed up in one word that has:

four letters (of course)
one vowel
no As
no Es

How about L O S T ?

lost (definition)
adj
1. unable to be found or recovered
noun
1. people who are destined to die soon; "the agony of the doomed was in his voice"

#187. Posted by: Ali at March 10, 2010 5:18 PM

Darnit Ali - I was just going to post the same response!
@145 Four letters, one vowel = LOST

But NooooOOOOO... if I do that now I'll be commiting an evil "repeat" post and be AAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHHED by davidrh and you all everybody.

Darn you Ali...

#188. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 10, 2010 5:30 PM

@187 / 188

I agree -- LOST

#189. Posted by: srharmon at March 10, 2010 5:37 PM

I am wondering if Roger(work-man)Linus is sick for the same reason as Miles' mother?
I am NOT wondering where Jin and Sawyer are as I am sure they will be in upcoming episodes that will explain this very question.

#190. Posted by: Monster34 at March 10, 2010 5:43 PM

A Sawyer-centric episode with recon or re-"con" as the espisode title? Hmmm...maybe he is connning Flocke!

#191. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 10, 2010 5:57 PM

Or, maybe, as I suggested before in post 162, this refers to the recon job that Miles has been doing for Widmore regarding the island and the Losties. Miles now has a wealth of information on everyone, right?

#192. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 10, 2010 6:04 PM

Recon is short for reconnaissance.
The origin of the word is 19th Century French for "recognize."

I hope Sawyer (or someone) will finally recognize who/what MIB really is and tells us.

#193. Posted by: welh at March 10, 2010 6:13 PM

@181: GatorGal: "So...if Locke is a lynchpin in everything, maybe that point in time is his premature birth? Remember his mother got hit by an unidentified driver which caused her to deliver early. Maybe this driver is someone like Jacob (or Widmore?) that knocked things off kilter on purpose"

I've been thinking the same thing. The show has consistently used the game metaphor between light and dark, so why are we assuming that only Light Jacob moved game pieces off-island, and not Dark Smokey as well?

My guess is that the sidewayds world show lives without either Jacob or Smokey's influence.

Since Smokey is confined to the island, he needed someone off-island to move the pieces for him. My candidate? Widmore. Method of gameplay? car crashes.

In the first few seasons, I was bothered by the frequent, unexplained, game changing car crashes, in almost every case turning that character's life into a downward spiral.

* Michael is hit by a car just as he is trying to keep custody of Walt, putting him in a unhappy cycle not ended until his death

*Adam Rutherford and Sarah get into a serious car accident that will permanently warp Shannon (again, until her death), and maintain her unhealthy co-dependance with Boone.

No Sarah=no Jack marriage that ends in him breaking his relationship with his father and driving Christian to his death.

* Claire and her mother get into a car accident, depriving her of her mother's support, leading to her reliance on a psychic(?). In addition, this indirectly speeds up Christian's death, as Claire's aunt refuses his request to reconnect with Claire.

Further evidence here: Claire's mom miraculous recovery which allows her to take Aaron and send Kate back to the island.

*Kate has multiple car crashes- we knows she still ends up arrested in Australia, but perhaps Tom Brennan is never killed?

* If Dr. Burke is never hit by a bus, does Juliet ever end up on the island, underwater or not?

*Nadia is hit by a car, sending Sayid into a black spiral he will never full recover from. While some have speculated Jacob caused this accident, why was Nadia looking in her purse for her sunglasses in the middle of a busy street, and why did the car run her down without stopping?

* The real game changer is just as GatorGal noted- an alt world where Emily Locke is not hit by a car, and continues on to her rendevous with Anthony Cooper.

Given that we have already seen in the sideways world that Locke has a relationship with his dad, did Cooper run off with young Emily, raising John together, and eliminating the childhood spent in foster care?

And if Cooper reformed his gig even a little bit, does that mean he does not seduce Mrs. Ford and con Mr. Ford, erasing the dark mark on the future James Sawyer?

#194. Posted by: Mizzed at March 10, 2010 6:16 PM

Mizzed, I wouldn't restrict it to just car accidents. Seems no mode of transportation is safe. Two planes crashed, a freighter and sub explode, at least two other boats crash (Black Rock, and Desmond's boat).

Maybe traveling by train is the only way to go...

#195. Posted by: Gumbo at March 10, 2010 6:36 PM

#190 -- effects of exposure to radiation?

#194 -- Someone needs to look at the corporate connection between Dharma and Toyota!

#196. Posted by: Hector Savage at March 10, 2010 6:37 PM

i just watched the new episode,
wow, fantastic,
macs review was (as usual) great but also enthusiastic,
it feels so good when someone else has enjoyed an episode as much as me.

#197. Posted by: san at March 10, 2010 7:14 PM

@169 Cecil

I was thinking Jacob's warning to Ben about "they're coming" meant either Team Ilana or the Oceanic 6 returning to the island. On the other hand, Jacob's warning to Hurley at the lighthouse is that "someone bad is coming" (I don't think that's verbatim...), which I was thinking last night could mean Widmore. Given the strong theme of redemption regarding Ben's character in both timelines, sincere or not, got me thinking maybe he is meant to be the good guy after all....but who the heck knows. I am always open to interpretation by others! Not the weird, dressed in shambles, living in the jungle and temple kind of others, but you get the idea...

:)

#198. Posted by: Vikki at March 10, 2010 7:21 PM

Ok, if the island is underwater in 2004, why do we think that we are in 2007? just someone clarify this for me.

#199. Posted by: lis at March 10, 2010 7:30 PM

@Cecil: It's hard to say if all of the people on the beach that jumped to the flaming arrow attack are on the 360 list or not, mainly because we have not seen the whole list and we also never learned everyone's last names. (Daniel) Faraday, (Charlotte) Lewis, and (Miles) Straume are all on the cave wall, lighthouse wheel, or both.

@ Ealgumby: Go back and rewatch The Incident (part 1).

Bram: Why did we even bring this yahoo?
Ilana: Because we might need him.
Bram: For what? He didn't know the answer to the question.
Ilana: That doesn't mean he's not important.
Bram: What, you think he's a candidate?
Ilana: He's awake.

No one ever said that Frank was a candidate. It's still an open question.

#200. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 10, 2010 8:16 PM

@126. jiggy: I watched it twice...and did not notice Carl or detention.

#201. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 10, 2010 8:28 PM

@160. Hector Savage:
"So who have we NOT seen in Sideways world? All of a sudden, the needle swings in one particular direction."

Shannon Rutherford?

#202. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 10, 2010 8:31 PM

@199 lis: Why 2007?

Because Ajira departed in 2007 and didn't phoom when it crashed. As confirmation, there was a subtitle "30 years earlier" (or "30 years later", don't recall exactly which) in one of S5's episodes when switching between Dharma 1977 and Ajira. This was a subtitle in a regular episode, not part of the enhanced version.

#203. Posted by: LockeBox at March 10, 2010 9:17 PM

@131-132

I was waiting for someone to mention William Atherton. So good to see him playing his same old typecast character. Would he ever be believable as a nice guy?
"Is this true?"
"Yes it's true. This man has no d---."

#204. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 10, 2010 9:18 PM

And apparently several other people mentioned Atherton after that and quoted the same line I did. Dang I'm usually better about reading ALL posts before jumping in. Better give myself a preemptive AAGGGGHHHHH!!!!

"Did you get that???"

The decision to go back to the beach was amusing like the old days where they only had two plans: go to the barracks or go to the beach. They just kept going back and forth. Hey let's go back to the beach!
No wonder no one ever bumped into the lighthouse or the temple or the cave before...

#205. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 10, 2010 9:54 PM

I *have* read all the comments, even though it took me almost 24 hrs to watch on a lousy connection from Australia. *breaks arm patting self on back*

@59. Posted by: Scooby-Dude - I thought Ben still made a play in the HS. At the end, the principal finds someone else for the detention room. So Ben said something we didn't hear. I was originally surprised that he didn't wait until after Alex got the recommendation before threatening blackmail (which would have been so easy). But then when she told him how over-the-top she'd been praised (which, incidentally, she shouldn't have seen), and Ben got relieved from detention duty, I realized he was still holding those emails over the principal's head. Maybe he will get what he wants for the school while remaining a teacher.

@14. Posted by: Cecil - But we heard lots of Richard-breathing before the fuse fizzled. :)

@57. Posted by: ransomjackson - But the island/Jacob/Roger made Ben evil to begin with. Why wouldn't Jacob have started by keeping Roger from turning into an abusive alcoholic?

@94. Posted by: Kompletely Lost - I agree. The subtle changes across the episodes, from being innocent Henry Gale, to controlling Otherville, to the terrible lying last night. He has been just brilliant.

@101. Posted by: ransomjackson, 71/runningman - or an impotent, unwilling virgin. BWAAHAAHAA!

#206. Posted by: hurling at March 10, 2010 9:57 PM

When little Ben, who so longed to escape his abusive father and live among the lost boys, is shot and taken to the others to be cured, Kate and Sawyer are warned that he will never be the same. We don't see how, but we all assume that he was bathed in the temple pool of who knows what's in that water. It appears that people do not emerge necessarily as nice guys. Maybe Rousseau's science party got a good dunking as well. And as pointed out by someone, Ghost Jacob seems to be awfully contemplative about the pool when he appears to Hurley in the temple. The point being, did abused Ben undergo a brain transplant in the pool and emerge as big bad Ben? Is he then responsible for all the evil he perpetuated? Is gentle Ben still buried in there somewhere?

BTW, does anyone remember what Ben was after when he had his little breakfast party by the sea with Kate before throwing her in the bear cage? Just what point was he making?

#207. Posted by: August Paul at March 10, 2010 10:34 PM

@132: If Arzt had just developed a super-laser he would have gotten his lab coats and a parking space!

#208. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 10, 2010 10:36 PM

Defective dynamite fuses. Freighter bombs with little pop-up messages. I'm tellin ya, Acme Corporation must be making a KILLING!

#209. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 10, 2010 10:46 PM

@150-mac: I've already told you once how to spell it! (Four years ago!)

@159: Throw in Sawyer and you've got a show!

@164: I think Sayid'd last thoughts were "Glub glub".

#210. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 10, 2010 10:55 PM

the real TOTAL problem with the whole episode is the STUPIDITY around Ben being "reverse" blackmailed about the principle writing the YALE letter.

c'mon, BEN HOLDS ALL THE CARDS, he could bury the guy AND force him to write a great letter....

#211. Posted by: rooster at March 10, 2010 11:02 PM

Was Alex killed after Ben shot Locke? Maybe Ben shooting a candidate negated the deal he had made...

#212. Posted by: julia goolia at March 10, 2010 11:12 PM

Ack raises a good point that hadn't occurred to me on her blog:

"Smokey asked Ben to take over, and yet he’s the one who said the island doesn’t need protecting. What’s up with that?"

#213. Posted by: Cecil at March 10, 2010 11:57 PM

GRAA Mac! And a *wonderful* episode. The character-driven parts of LOST are what I’ve always been most interested in & the acting in this episode, especially from Michael Emerson, was outstanding. I agree w/the other posters; I was rather verklempt when Ilana told Ben she’d have him.

Speaking of that moment, contrast it w/Jacob’s telling Ben, “What about you?” As I’ve speculated before, perhaps Jacob said it in that way—neutral at best, cold at worst—to give Ben true free will to make his choice. But it was Ilana’s freely offered forgiveness that got Ben. I really, really, *really* hope that Ben’s repentance was genuine & not just another manipulative move.

Although we learned more about Ilana this episode, I still have lots of questions about her (but probably won’t get most of them answered ; > ). But I had been thinking about this since last week’s episode…how did Sayid get back to the island? (And no, he didn’t cross the road to avoid the chicken.) Ilana captured him, posing as a bounty hunter avenging Peter Avellino. When Sayid saw the O6 (well, 5) on Ajira 316, he wanted no part of the flight because he figured out what was going to happen. Does it seem likely that the help Jacob requested from Ilana when he visited her in the hospital was to ask her to bring Sayid to the island? If so, how does that fit in w/Sayid’s apparent embrace of FLocke’s team? Did Sayid really sell his soul for the chance to see Nadia again? Or is he just playing along?

I also was thinking about Sayid saying to Dogen that Jacob drives a hard bargain. Initially I thought that Sayid was thinking about what happened in his case when Jacob showed up, but then ealgumby pointed out that Sayid had no idea that it was Jacob who stopped him for directions, preventing Sayid from potentially saving Nadia. That got us thinking…how many of the O6, or the Candidates, know what Jacob looks like so that they know they were visited by him? Only Hurley & Locke, as far as I can remember.

A number of people have commented on Kate’s & FLocke’s expressions at the end of the last episode. JMHO, but I thought FLocke was initially surprised, then calculating. Kate looked aghast at the death & destruction, & she was certainly surprised to see FLocke looking like Locke. I’m assuming she’s smart enough to realize that it’s not Locke resurrected (I hope, anyway). I don’t think she’s part of Team FLocke; she’s w/them for now because that’s where Claire is. And as soon as Kate realizes that Claire wants to bury an axe in her mid-riff, she’ll be outta there.

Speaking of Claire, I’ve been wondering what it is she expects FLocke to do to keep his word to her.

Random thoughts:

In Alt-2004 nearly everyone has a better life & is a better person, w/the exception of Charlie. Poor guy. Why is he different?

We might not see much of Desmond this season (even though his name appears in the cast list) because of Henry Ian Cusick being charged w/on-set sexual harassment last season (or perhaps it was during S4, I’m not sure…did we see Desmond at all in S5?).

In “Lighthouse,” we see in David’s room in Jack’s place a copy of The Annotated Alice (an excellent book, BTW; I’ve read it & liked it enough to get my own copy). Alice in Wonderland has been a recurring theme in LOST (white rabbits, anyone? ; > )…but Lewis Carroll’s other Alice story is Alice Through the Looking Glass…aka a mirror. Alice climbs through the mirror over the fireplace mantel into an odd world (are Hurley & Miles Tweedledee & Tweedledum?). We’ve been thinking of Jacob’s lighthouse mirror as a farviewer, but I wonder if Jacob went through the mirror to travel off the island?

Why is MIB stuck in FLocke? How does Ilana know this? Why did Jacob’s body bleed & die when FLocke’s body doesn’t do either? Inquiring minds want to know…

There’s been a bunch of discussion (not only Ilana is confused) over whether it’s Jin or Sun who fits the “Kwon” candidacy. Does anyone know whether it’s customary in Korean culture for the woman to take the man’s name upon marriage? (Upon reading farther… thank you #159. Tinkerbean.)

#137. HugosTheOne & #138. Mac & probably a bunch of others (as opposed to Others):

Not to toot my own horn (but I guess I am ; ) ), but I had pointed out earlier this season that Alt-2004 can’t be a simple “this is what happened because 815 didn’t crash.” There were too many differences noticeable right from the beginning (e.g., Boone being okay w/o Shannon, Hurley being happy) for the “reset point” to be during the flight. Somewhere in the past is when the reset happened…as Juliet put it, “It worked”—just not when they had expected it to.

#145. GatorGal: What is the island?

What about “LOST”?

(Upon reading farther…#187. Ali & #188. BunnyLover & #189. Srharmon—you all everybody beat me to it!)

#214. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 10, 2010 11:59 PM

@212 julia goolia asked:

>Was Alex killed after Ben shot Locke? Maybe Ben shooting a candidate negated the deal he had made...

Ben SHOT Locke? When was this?

If you mean after Ben STRANGLED Locke, no, that was well after Keamy shot Alex.

#215. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 12:00 AM

Was Alex killed after Ben shot Locke?
#212. Posted by: julia goolia

ah, whatia Julia goolia? Who knewlia youlia could foolias into thinkina that long agolia Ben did shoot locke into the pit of dharmania skeletonias. Buttus I thinkus I degressus. THAT was so fun! No harm intended (us).

On a seriius note -- what happened to all the bunnyus rabbitosis?? Hum??

#216. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 11, 2010 12:10 AM

@215 Cecil: "Ben SHOT Locke? When was this?"

Ben shot Locke in "Man Behind the Curtain" at the Dharma grave site. BTW, I don't think there has ever been an adequate explanation to why Walt appeared to Locke at the grave site, urging him to get up. Jacob? Smokey? Walt astral projecting?

To answer @212 julia goolia, that shooting did occur before Alex's death by Keamy.

@207 August Paul: "does anyone remember what Ben was after when he had his little breakfast party by the sea with Kate before throwing her in the bear cage? Just what point was he making?"

Just part of his mental mind game involving Kate, Sawyer and Jack. The breakfast was the beginning of the manipluation that would lead Kate to convince Jack to do the surgery to save Ben's life.

#217. Posted by: Mizzed at March 11, 2010 12:18 AM

Thanks for the memmory Boost Bnnylvr Oh THAT time Ben shot (but didn't kill, at least as far as we know) Locke. Yes, that was well before Alex died.

#218. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 12:21 AM

@160. Hector Savage:
"So who have we NOT seen in Sideways world? All of a sudden, the needle swings in one particular direction."

@202 FenwayBen: "Shannon Rutherford?"

Nikki and Paulo?

All kidding aside, from the original plane the sideways world is still missing Michael and Walt, Ana Lucia, Eko, and Libby.

If you want to include key non-Oceanic characters, then add Juliet, Miles, Faraday, Charlotte, Frank, Ilana, Penny, Widmore and Hawking.

#219. Posted by: Mizzed at March 11, 2010 12:26 AM

Q: Why did the torturer fly from Sydney to Los Angeles?

A: Did get to the his Sayid-ways-flash.

~huz-ya-mama~

#220. Posted by: ConnieJEnglish at March 11, 2010 12:38 AM

The comment Ben's dad, Rodger, makes about how he wishes they never left the island because he could have given Ben a better life makes me think that they weren't evacuated, but rather chose to leave casually.

Here’s the dialogue:

Rodger: “….that's why i signed up for that damn dharma initiative, they were decent people, smarter than I'll ever be. Imagine how different our life would have been if we had stayed”.
Ben: “yes we would have both lived happily ever after”
Rodger: “.Oh I'm serious, Ben, who knows what you would have become”.


The part where Rodger says, “….imagine how different our life would have been if we had stayed”. Makes me think that there was an option to stay on the island and that they was not an evacuation. It sounds like Rodger made a decision to leave and he is now regretting it because he thinks Ben might have had a better life if they had stayed on the island. Obviously he doesn’t know that the island is under water either.

#221. Posted by: Skipper at March 11, 2010 2:06 AM

@@#213. Posted by: Cecil
Ack raises a good point that hadn't occurred to me on her blog:

"Smokey asked Ben to take over, and yet he’s the one who said the island doesn’t need protecting. What’s up with that?"
Smokey was not really trying to let Ben take over as Island Leader. He only said that to tempt Ben into killing Ilana. Smokey needs Ilana to die, but he can’t kill her himself (for whatever reason). Smokey persuaded Sayid into killing Dogen – he made a deal with Sayid in exchange for a service. Smokey was trying to do the same thing with Ben. “Sure Ben, you can be the Island leader, but there will be no one to lead since we’re all leaving and a war is coming”.

Remember the first part of the show where SW Ben is teaching his calss about Napoleon on the island of Elba….. Dr. Linus says, “And it was on this island that everything changed, that everything finally became clear. Elba. This is where napoleon faced his greatest test because exile wasn’t the worst of his fate. What was truly devastating to him was the loss of his power. Sure they allowed him to keep the title of emperor but without any power it was meaningless. He might just as well have been dead”. Well, same thing applies in Ben’s Island life.

#222. Posted by: Skipper at March 11, 2010 2:19 AM

You know what else is interesting? ….Correct me if I’m wrong, but that goes w/o saying…. None of the final (remaining main) characters have said anything about “God” having a plan for them. Or anything about their lives being in the hands of “God”. Or “Please God help me survive the smoky attack. Do any of them believe in a higher power? Are any of the candidates religious enough to stop and think that the Almighty might have something to do with this instead of thinking that a mere mortal (well, I say mortal because Jacob is now dead) such as Jacob is behind it all?

True believers would not believe that there is a force greater than God. By blindly following Jacob’s orders (like Ben and Richard did) even if the orders are in conflict with the 10 commandments (like killing) would that be the same as renouncing your faith for the church of Jacob? No? A bit David Koresh-ish, if you ask me. The cult of Jacob and the Tree-Branch Davidians.

I know Rose was religious, she’s no longer a main character. We know Eko was religious, he’s no long with us. We know Charlie helped to build a church, he’s dead. Eloise’s headquarters is in a church, and she likes to throw around the phrase, “God help us all”, as does Widmore. But that doesn’t really mean they’re religious or have faith in God. Who do these people worship? Who do they pray to? Sayid is/was Muslim, but we haven’t seen him pray in a long time. Jack’s dad’s funeral was in a church but I haven’t seen Jack pray.

When the dynamite fuse was lit and getting close to exploding, it sounded like Jack had faith that Jacob/Island would not let him die because he was obviously important. He didn’t seem to think that God had anything to do with whether he lives or dies. I mean, God trumps Jacob, emiright?

Thoughts anyone?

#223. Posted by: Skipper at March 11, 2010 5:23 AM

omg, Napoleon was mentioned in this episode. So was dynamite....

Napoleon
Dynamite

hmm....

Napoleon Dynamite!

I think I just figured out the whole show. Vote for Paco, i mean, Hugo!!

#224. Posted by: Skipper at March 11, 2010 5:32 AM

I can't help but think the Alt world represents some maifestation of the 'promises' made, or to be made, to the characters by Jacob and Smokey-MIB.

#225. Posted by: bearandbu at March 11, 2010 8:44 AM

@194/ Mizzed:

Purgatory theorists have used your list of serious accidents to conclude that the characters are "dead" but their souls are in limbo.

@223/ Skipper:

The most important element in the Jack Dynamite scene was as the fuse was nearing its end, Jack closes his eyes. When he opens them, the fuse stops. He "wished" for an outcome and he got it.

#226. Posted by: welh at March 11, 2010 9:31 AM

@ all those who beleive that richard was mislead by MIB pretending to be Jacob, i'm not buying that theory. if richard was able to tell the fake locke was actually MIB than why wouldnt he be able to tell if jacob was really jacob. i know he knew that the real locke was dead but who says that it had to be the MIB that took on locke's form?

#227. Posted by: tiffani at March 11, 2010 10:23 AM

Gee wilickers....

Joining the party here late really sucks! 200+ comments to read through!

First of all....
Did anyone notice that at first, Ilana wanted to Ben to dig his own grave, but then seemed to change her mind? Just checking.... ;)


@38. Posted by: Oly Gold
re: Olympic Hockey game

I totally noticed that the Canadians beat the Americans in OT. It was awesome! Both teams played well. The sportsmanship was fine, as were the fans. The only bizarre thing has been the odd sour grape folk who just can't let it go. John Locke - Is this you? ;)


@41. Posted by: Skipper
@90. Posted by: imnotdeaf_mozart
re: Emerson performance

Yeah - it was totally spot on! We so needed this, because the character of Ben had been so useless and weak throughout this season. After the emotional Ilana/Ben scene, am I the only one who thinks they will hook up? Will Ilana really (wink wink) take Ben?


@94. Posted by: Kompletely Lost
@103. Posted by: 74 aka Steve
@124. Posted by: kevooon
re: the gift of Jacob

I also don't think the touch of Jacob makes one "immortal", though this seems to be the gift he bestowed to Richard. I wonder if all other strange abilities that we have seen amongst different characters are the result of being a recipient of the gift of Jacob? Was Walt touched by Jacob? Was Miles touched by Jacob? Was Desmond touched by Jacob? Who else had a super bizarre ability?


@105 + 115. Posted by: srharmon
re: smokey no likey agua

But we've already seen Flocke near (possibly standing within) water. When Arija crashes, and we first see Flocke (who we think is Locke), wasn't there a scene where Ilana is looking at him staring off into the Ocean, with his shoeless feet in the water? This is when he had that awesome tasting Mango....

Ben suggesting the beach is just a smart tactical decision for someone who is trying to survive. With the water at their backs, they only have to keep their eyes on the jungle, which is key for such a small group of people.

But speaking about water.....

I found it weird that when Ben changed the oxygen tank for Roger (who was weird because he was no longer an a-hole), I couldn't take my eyes of the bottle of water/liquid that was in the cabinet (left side of screen). It just seemed out of place. Perhaps it was the shimmer that drew my attention. Sigh - insert joke about shiny objects!


@109: DC-Matt
re: Did we see Ben looking in a mirror last night?

As mentioned, the microwave. Speaking of mirrors, when Ben was talking about Napoleon's exile on Elba, all I could think about was the famous palindrome "Able was I ere I saw Elba". For those unawares, when you spell the phrase backwards, it is exactly the same. This is one of the more unique ones, in the sense that each word stands on its own.


@152. Posted by: sandivon
re: How about "myth"?

I like "myth". A mixture of ancient mythology along with the show's mythology.


@173. Posted by: mapache

re: Preppy, college alt-Alex is as mega hot as jungle rifle-carrying Alex!!!!!

It goes without saying that Alex is hot.

I salute all of us who have been making this declaration for as long as we have seen her.

At first, I was ready to cringe when she declared the principal was a perv, thinking there was going to be some story where he felt her up or made the moves on her. Did anyone not think it was weird that Alex would know where Ben lived? In high-school, I did not know where any of my teachers lived!

While we know that in the regular timeline Ben is a stepdad, how would sideways world people interpret Ben? Creepy older teacher doing all sorts of favours for the young hottie student? Mr. Robinson?

And then, I found out that life imitates art. There is irony with the dirty old man motifs in this episode, considering that in really life, the actress is dating Jeff Goldblum, a man who is 35 years her senior. Yikes!

@174. Posted by: weepict
re: "yes it is true...this man has no dick!!!"

That was what I kept thinking about too! Best line - EVER!


@222. Posted by: Skipper
re: Ben's Napoleon complex

Ben/Napoleon is an interesting parallel. Flocke offers Ben the title of island emperor, but likely without any power. I wonder if Ben ever rode a donkey across the Alps, but was painted doing so with a glorious horse?


@226. Posted by: welh
re: Jack closes his eyes

Yes - I also wondered if it were possible that Jack actually used the force to make it stop. Interesting.

#228. Posted by: shikotee at March 11, 2010 10:37 AM

@199 lis wondered:

>Ok, if the island is underwater in 2004, why do we think that we are in 2007? just someone clarify this for me.

Because the Ajira passengers (Sun, Lapitus, Illana, Ben, etc) who DIDN'T FOOM off the plane took off and apparently landed there in 2007, and subsequently met up with everybody that had been moving though time (Jack, Hurley, Kate, Jin, Sayid, Miles, Sawyer) and those that just lived though it all without time jumping (Richard and all the Others).

#229. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 10:55 AM

i remember sometime ago,
ben telling widmore he had broken the rules by killing his daughter,
since alex was not bens daughter & in fact no blood relative at all,
i dont see how the rules could have been broken.

#230. Posted by: san at March 11, 2010 10:57 AM

I always wondered if "LOST" ever stood for something. It's always printed in all caps, so maybe the letters stand for something. (T = time?). LOST is a 4-letter word with 1 vowel and no As or Es.

I agree that when Ben was taken to the others (and presumably dunked in the pool), it made him bad, or at least "morally flexible." Seems to have had the same effect on Claire and Sayid.

Off island, Ben made the right choice when he chose Alex's future, because he was never made evil.

And we could assume that Jacob is good and FLocke is bad, especially since they wore white and black (respectively, when FLocke was the MiB). But each does say that the other is bad. And maybe the writers will decide to do something slightly unexpected, and reveal that it is in fact the opposite. My main point is that we don't know for sure who is good and who is bad.

#231. Posted by: Steve at March 11, 2010 11:18 AM

One more thing....

And this goes out to all the salty critical folks who feel they just are not getting enough answers. Actually, it pretty much works with anyone who is not having things go their way.

Click on my name to visit the site, then press the button. Remember - only do this in for DIRE SITUATIONS!!! ;)

I keep a browser tab with this permanently open. Makes me chuckle! I love the URL...

#232. Posted by: shikotee at March 11, 2010 11:29 AM

just when we thought we were done with bleeding noses....ben gets one when digging his grave...

who bopped him? I missed how he got it?

#233. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 11, 2010 12:16 PM

@194: You make a good point Mizzed, but I'm not convinced the car crashes are Widmore's doing, or at least only Widmore's doing. Why? Because of this http://tinyurl.com/yjffk3k transcript of some dvd extras which have Darlton clearly state that the Others have used at least one car accident in the past to steer events. I know, I know, the show has contradicted many things Darlton have said, so perhaps this will be contradicted as well. But until that point I see more evidence for the Others using car crashes than Widmore. Or perhaps both do.

#234. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 11, 2010 12:19 PM

@206, hurling: "which, incidentally, she shouldn't have seen"

I was thinking the same thing. I guess more than one thing at this school is a little off. :)

#235. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 11, 2010 12:25 PM

Speaking of satire - I wrote a whole series on it.

#236. Posted by: sebastienwilcox at March 11, 2010 2:52 PM

Possible theory

Aaron is Jacob. Aaron is the only child ever to be born on the Island since the incident and is now a time traveller. He travels to the future and brings back Smokey and traps him on the Island knowing it cannot escape due to the Island properties. He needs to bring the candidates to the Island to ensure his birth is recreated exactly as it was. The whole thing has been a loop which has gone on for millenia.

Thats all I have got.

#237. Posted by: Kristian at March 11, 2010 3:10 PM

BEST LINE OF THE SHOW...Ilana"my name is Enigo Montoya, jou keeled my father, preepare to die"

#238. Posted by: myproshop at March 11, 2010 3:13 PM

An observation:
It's been commented that smokey has a problem being near or going through/over water, which is what is trapping him on the island.
Smokey is never seen on the beach, and Ben drained a pool leading to an underground cave which allowed him past the security fence.
We know Flocke does not have this problem, since he has been on the beach multiple times, and even crossed from the Hydra island to the main island. (He first appeared on the Hydra island after the Ajira crash)

My question: If smokey cannot cross the water, how did he get to the Hydra island to appear as Flocke in the first place?
Three possible answers I can think of:
1 - There is an underground cave linking the islands.
2 - Smokey was able to change into Flocke as soon as Lockes body was in the area, he then took a boat over to the Hydra island to meet up with the Ajira flight.
3 - When the Ajira plane flew over the island, at the same time some of the survivors disappeared from the flight (foomed), Smokey reached up and grabbed hold of the plane and hitched a ride. (and possibly caused it to crash).

#239. Posted by: Russ at March 11, 2010 3:18 PM

Smokey and water.

The human body is made up of 60-70% water. Smokey has no qualms of grabbing hold and crushing human bodies, releasing blood and guts through it.

The tropical island is surrounded by ocean which equates to a high water in atmosphere (humidity) content. Smokey would be in constant contact with water.

#240. Posted by: welh at March 11, 2010 3:53 PM

regarding smokey/flocke, it just occured to me that when kate and juliet were hand cuffed together it started raining, hard, and smokey was on the prowl and came after them so....does this debunk our water theory??

maybe smokey can only hold its smokey form for so long when it is around, near or in water? wouldnt water "short circuit" it so to speak if it is in fact made up of some sort of electrical material plus dark matter plus whatever other super mysterious "stuff"? :) obviously flocke/smokey is more powerful as the smoke monster than in human form so it makes sense that it would stay away from that which prevents it from changing/keeping its form.

i cant recall seeing flocke kill or harm anyone except as the smoke monster.

hope that made sense, it does while i'm thinking it and trying to type it.

namaste!!!

#241. Posted by: tiffani at March 11, 2010 3:58 PM

I read my recommendations I received from my high school teachers. I didnt' think that was strange at all.

I'm also not convinced that Charlie life is worse in the alt-time line. We have't seen him since he has been escorted off the plane.

#242. Posted by: Skulley at March 11, 2010 4:08 PM

@228. Posted by: shikotee - My 3rd grade teacher, who was also a distant cousin, lived on my block. I also knew where my totally hot HS Spanish teacher lived. They're not all unlisted. And Ben wasn't a perv - he didn't invite Alex to come in his house to study. The line about bringing coffee was so wrong tho - what HS library would allow anyone to bring coffee in, esp near the computers?

@ilovebenjaminlinusxx - only 1 post? And a short one - I thought you'd be babbling on in ecstasy! IMNSHO, this was one of the best episodes of the series.

#243. Posted by: hurling at March 11, 2010 5:42 PM

lost2theworld I like your idea of Miles doing recon for Charles W. Wasn't he able to tell that Michael, as he boarded the freighter, was not Kevin Johnson. So who knows how much info he has from both the living and the dead.

Something else came to mind as I was reading this week's commentary. Last week, Claire didn't give the temple much of a looking over for her baby, did she? And she left to follow Flocke so readily. That was a little odd since she is obsessed with finding Aaron.

#244. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 11, 2010 7:27 PM

gleaned (plagiarized) from elsewhere:

Ilana saying that Jacob was like a father to her, and Richard saying that a touch from Jacob was a blessing/curse. Is this why Jacob wore gloves when he visited Ilana at the hospital? Why was he so careful to not touch her?

#245. Posted by: mtncbn at March 11, 2010 8:10 PM

I think Widmore is a Jacob man.

#246. Posted by: Clementine at March 11, 2010 8:59 PM

@244> I guess Claire believes Kate. It will be interesting to see how Claire handles the realization that her "friend" has lied to her about Aaron's whereabouts for several years.

@245> I didn't notice that Jacob wore gloves when he was with Ilana at the hospital. I don't know why, but my impression of Ilana's injuries was that she had been burned.

I can't remember who said it, but someone here wondered if Ilana might be Ana Lucia after extensive facial surgery. I gotta say...if TPTB wanted to do something like that, they chose the right person for the part.

#247. Posted by: undauntid at March 11, 2010 9:01 PM

@184: If the word is MIND and this whole thing ends with an eyeball shot of someone waking up from a dream, I swear I'll go apopleptic! Seriously. That would be awful...so let's hope you're wrong! ;)

#248. Posted by: GatorGal at March 11, 2010 9:06 PM

#200. FenwayBen: Frank as candidate?

Sorry, that was my bad, not ealgumby's...I can't even use the immortal phrase "I misremembered"; I just read Lostpedia wrong. Mea culpa...

#249. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 11, 2010 9:09 PM

Speaking of missing persons, don't forget that Sayid went off with Nadia. I always thought is was strange that he insisted on taking her body off island.

#250. Posted by: pebspostal at March 11, 2010 9:10 PM

@187 - ALI

Or, to take that another step farther, if LOST is the answer to the "riddle" then maybe it is an anagram (we know D&C love those!):

L - laws
O - of
S - space
T - time

#251. Posted by: GatorGal at March 11, 2010 9:10 PM

250 - that's suppose to be Naomi not Nadia.

#252. Posted by: pebspostal at March 11, 2010 9:12 PM

#252. pebspostal: Fate of Naomi's body:

It was on the Kahana when the ship sank.

I don't know why Sayid insisted that her body be taken off-island rather than just buried...maybe because at that point he thought they were all going to be rescued? Or did they already know that the Kahana was not a friendly vessel?

#253. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 11, 2010 10:04 PM

Word games! :)

Lust
Wish
Corn (really, the Island could be corn)
dump (a dump for dudes and damsels with dangling daddy issues that is)
dumb (it's an Island, of course it's dumb)
Bull (and a lot of it)
Show (we all know it's a tv show in the end, complete with candidates; someone said that already?)
Troy (will Jacob's troop climb into Kate's horse and wait outside the Hydra station?)
Ploy (it's a ploy to get us to keep watching dammit)
Bird (the Island is a big Hurley bird, how else did it move?)

This could go on for a long time. We're not running out of four letter words anytime soon, are we?


Speaking of Richard (what do you mean, I was not?), since he was in chains he was probably either a slave or a prisoner. It has been mostly theorized I think that he was a slave, which would make nice thematic sense with him basically voluntarily enslaving himself to serve Jacob after his physical liberation from the Black Rock. MIB has a point when he says only after Jacob's death that it is nice to see Richard out of chains. Anyway, where I was going with this is that according to the almighty Wikipedia slavery was made illegal in England in 1772 (http://tinyurl.com/ytc6cm) and in 1807 slave trading was abolished in the British Empire. Why is this relevant? Well, according to the info on Lostpedia on the Black Rock the ship set sail from England in 1845 (http://tinyurl.com/b89tjo), long after slave trade in the British Empire was abolished (doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't going on anymore of course) and even in the exact year that (according to Wikipedia again) "36 British Royal Navy ships are assigned to the Anti-Slavery Squadron, making it one of the largest fleets in the world." So perhaps Richard wasn't a slave but a prisoner. I think the British were still using parts of Australia as penal colonies at that time. Is that why they were in those waters? And if he was a prisoner, will we get an episode entitled "What Richard did" soon?

#254. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 11, 2010 10:05 PM

@250 pebspostal confused me with:

>Speaking of missing persons, don't forget that Sayid went off with Nadia. I always thought is was strange that he insisted on taking her body off island.

Say what? Nadia died in Los Angeles, didn't she?

#255. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 10:19 PM

@252 pebspostal backtracked with:

>250 - that's suppose to be Naomi not Nadia.

Oh. Never mind.

#256. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 10:22 PM

@254 Plain Simple speculated:

>So perhaps Richard wasn't a slave but a prisoner. I think the British were still using parts of Australia as penal colonies at that time. Is that why they were in those waters? And if he was a prisoner, will we get an episode entitled "What Richard did" soon?

Never heard of any Australian deportees being shipped in chains, though.

Or for that matter any trade in white slaves, other than women.

#257. Posted by: Cecil at March 11, 2010 10:26 PM

#254. Plain Simple: Richard in chains:

I had wondered if there had been a mutiny on the Black Rock & he was on the losing side.

#258. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 11, 2010 11:03 PM

@258. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought

Mutineer was what I had in mind as well.

Remember when young Ben first meets Richard? He certainly looked more piratey. Do you think this Richard was flashing through time? I say this because this took place in the 70's, and 50's Richard was already clean-cut.
I wonder if TPTB will clarify this.

Lastly - when young Ben saw his mom, was this smokie, or just some not yet explained projection?

#259. Posted by: shikotee at March 12, 2010 12:39 AM

For all you people out there who have been translating the hieroglyphs, here's a nice bit: http://tinyurl.com/yaodszl

Go to the video of Totally Lost 3/9/10 part 2. At the beginning of that video director Jack Bender says "there is stuff there" about translating the hieroglyphs.

#260. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 12, 2010 1:19 AM

Mutineer was something I thought of as well. Not sure why I didn't mention it. It must have combined in my mind with prisoner. After all, it would make him a prisoner I assume. It does sound more likely than being shipped to Australia.

#261. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 12, 2010 1:21 AM

Great episode and Excellent review by MAC!

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, it seems like 'mirrors' and 'water' are 2 major clues.
In Flash Sideways we are seeing everybody in mirrors and on island every second scene they are standing over the water.

May be Smokey (MIB) can't come near the water, that might explain him not coming near the beach, and Ben releasing water (few seasons ago) for smokey to come out???

6 Candidates, interesting, not sure if Sayed and Kate are included in these. A confused Kate on MIB side could be the key in the final showdown i.e. changing side at the last minute or something?!?!

#262. Posted by: HK at March 12, 2010 6:04 AM

Some more random points...

- Richard always wears this pirate eyeliner(TM). Therefore, I suppose he was a prisoner on the Black Rock.

- the loophole which MIB found was that he was able to talk one of Jacob's own people/players/agents into killing him. Nevertheless, I think it could have been part of Jacob's plan to get "killed" by Ben (sacrifice is a common theme around faith and Jacob's people/players/agents). Another important component of MIB's loophole was that he managed to take over one of Jacob's people/players/agents (Locke).

- it looks like Jacob's death was important for Ben in order to regain him as one of his people/players/agents (Ben was tasked to do the same for Locke once -- he helped him to regain his faith). I wonder if MIB will again try to seduce Ben by promising him to bring back Alex (this strategy seems to have worked on Sayid).

- I'm pretty sure that it's all in software and that it's all a game or competition -- at least from Jacob's and MIB's point of view. It could be a simulation or an experiment from an external point of view. What I'm trying to say is that I suppose Jacob and MIB are unaware of the bigger picture. We have seen this scheme a couple of times before on Lost

- I think the word Avatar was never mentionend on Lost, but some similarities are striking http://tinyurl.com/y9tmyf6 . There are more interesting wikipedia articles around the word Avatar (which of course are not related to the movie).

#263. Posted by: Margot at March 12, 2010 6:16 AM

@260/ Plain Simple:
Thanks for the link. I don't think any of these temple courtyard columns made it in visible form during any episode broadcast.

To translate or not to attempt to translate, that is the question . . .

#264. Posted by: welh at March 12, 2010 9:14 AM

@264, welh: You're welhcome. I got the impression he meant the hieroglyphs on the show in general, not necessarily only the ones on the columns. But you're right, I guess that could be all he's talking about.

#265. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 12, 2010 10:13 AM

Yeah, bad video editing is a possibility. This season's attempted translations are getting harder because I think, purposeful or not, the set people are getting sloppier in execution of the symbols (or roughing them out to make them hard to read). In the courtyard video, there are several symbols I have never seen and can't find a corrolation to in my reference materials so 50-50 chance they could be made up window dressing and not meant to be seen.

#266. Posted by: welh at March 12, 2010 10:33 AM

@ #172. Cecil

I'm with mac on this one. If something changed, and produced all the results we see in the off-island time line, I think it had to change much earlier than the flight of 815, even granted that the 815 crash started a chain of events that included time travel back to before 2004. How would any of that make Roger Linus a better person?

>My thoughts on why Ben is a better person in the Alt Timeline is because in the Alt Timeline the Oceanic Flight 815 never crashed. Therefore Sayid never tried to kill Ben when he was a child & Kate never took him to the "others" to have him healed. The others warned Kate that Ben would be changed forever. I think that is what made Ben evil in the first place, before that he was a sweet kid & was trying to help Sayid.

Not sure why any of that would make Roger Linus a better person, BUT if you think back about the Locke episode it seems that his daddy issues have been resovled as well (invited his dad to the wedding).

#267. Posted by: Totally Lost at March 12, 2010 12:00 PM

@181 GatorGal

I don't remember Ben's mom getting hit by a car. I remember she and Roger were hiking in the woods and she went into labor early. Roger flagged down a car which turned out to be Horace and Olivia. If I'm wrong, my apologies.

#268. Posted by: marlisa at March 12, 2010 12:37 PM

I agree with people that events changed prior to the initial plane crash. I think Ben is a better person in the alt-timeline because his father is a better person not because he wasn't shot by Sayid.

#269. Posted by: Skulley at March 12, 2010 12:48 PM

@268 MARLISA

You are correct about Ben but in my post (#181) I was talking about LOCKE. His mom got hit by the car...an unidentified driver...when she ran out in front of it in a rainstorm. This accident caused her to go into premature labor.

#270. Posted by: GatorGal at March 12, 2010 1:48 PM

Long time reader, first time posting.

-First off, Mac amazing reviews over the years.

@257 - Richard being a prisoner.. I suspect he is fulfilling that role just like Kate & Sayid. I haven't worked out all the roles of the rest but I think its important

I am also of the view despite what TPTB say, is that its either a game or virtual reality group therapy, we shall see.

My wish is to have most important things fall into place... sorta like Sixth Sense or the finale of Life on Mars (American version) I feel we are missing something very obvious and the bleeding continues.......

Great Hockey Game btw!

#271. Posted by: Lostncyberspace at March 12, 2010 5:31 PM

@270 GatorGal

See? I told you I'd be apologizing! I don't know what made me think you were talking about Ben's mom. You are definitely right. I just have Ben on the brain. Felt sorry for him.

#272. Posted by: marlisa at March 12, 2010 6:31 PM

i reckon there are potentially enough main characters to give us side-flash episodes well into the final season,
maybe even right up to the finale itself,
i dont know what the next episode title is as i generally try to avoid any info on up-comming episodes but my guess is we will have side-flash episodes for:
sawyer
hurley
miles
ilana
frank
sun-jin (one episode, surely!!)
they may even give mac a s/f epi.
just have to wait and see,
im still not sure if im completely into the side-flash thing yet,
i find it intriuging-yet-irritating in equal measures,
but i have faith in the writers of this show,
not like the rather colourful and plain weird ending to late 60s television extravaganza THE PRISONER.
we live in hope.

#273. Posted by: san at March 12, 2010 7:04 PM

@249. Alaïs_Longthought: No problem! It's still an open question, but I am definitely leaning towards he's not.

#274. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 12, 2010 9:38 PM

@244 Sayidisn'tso...thanks for the support of my "Miles doing recon for Widmore" theory!

I just think it's interesting that Miles started out as one of the freighter folks on a mission to capture Ben Linus at all costs and then BAM, we just began to accept him as one of the Losties. Could he have a personal grudge with Ben related to having to leave the island? Did he find out some secret in his Mom's last thoughts before dying? I'm reaching but I just feel like there might be something there.

Of course I'll be proven totally wrong on Tuesday...Darlton giveth and Darlton taketh away...it is Lost!

#275. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 12, 2010 10:15 PM

#275. Posted by: lost2theworld

I just think it's interesting that Miles started out as one of the freighter folks on a mission to capture Ben Linus at all costs and then BAM, we just began to accept him as one of the Losties.
- - - -
1) Was Miles aware that it was an "all out mission to capture Ben"? or was he a noob that Naomi hesitated to hire in the first place.

2) BAM? It seems to me that after THREE years of hanging with Sawyer, Jules and Jin in mid-70's Dharmaville, he was 'gradually' accepted as a Lostie. A Dharma Deputy Sheriff's badge and the James Ford stamp of approval (perpetual nicknames) gained him 'jungle cred' with the rest of the Losties that returned on Ajira.

#276. Posted by: DocH at March 12, 2010 10:34 PM

Regarding Miles: He always just seems to be dragged along by the other Losties. It could be that we are lulled into ignoring his role in the main plot.

#277. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 12, 2010 11:35 PM

re: Neither water nor the ocean are kryptonite for Flocke

Just wanted to confirm that in season 5, after Arija crash lands on Hydra island, shoeless Flocke is standing at the beach, looking at the main island, whilst waves roll over his feet.

It's interesting to rewatch this scene, with the smokey context, considering how we originally thought it was Locke reborn. Smokey really really enjoyed eating that mango, for who knows when he was last able to do so!

#278. Posted by: shikotee at March 13, 2010 1:06 AM

@277. Plain Simple
Regarding Miles: He always just seems to be dragged along by the other Losties. It could be that we are lulled into ignoring his role in the main plot.
-----------
Of course. He has game. He has skill. Just now is he starting to "appear" on the radar screen. Wicked cool humor. Wood for Claire. Ghostbuster for Jacob's ashes. Extort Ben - $8M in diamonds, versus $3.2M in cash.

Miles was the favorite freighter monkey in all the tele reviews. Frank was a near second. Daniel a distant third. Charlotte got a heart felt - kill her now! et tu.

Straume and Lapidus may be clandestine spooks in the Widmore camp of inbound combatants.

#279. Posted by: CafeHawking at March 13, 2010 5:22 AM

More Miles questions:

I can't connect how Alana knows that he can read the dead. Didn't they just meet in the temple?

Also, I wondered if it was really Ben that he read, not a scoop of Jacob's ashes.

#280. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 13, 2010 11:08 AM

I've been trying to determine just when this chain of events started that took Locke's life. I feel like there's just one scene that sums it all up.

Locke has been saying through the whole show that it's his destiny. Maybe his destiny (planned out by Jacob) is to die so that the MIB can find his loophole to kill Jacob. After all, Jacob did walk into Ben so he could be stabbed.

The MIB wants off the island. Maybe Jacob is tired too and wants his job to end. He's planned out his own death because he can't commit suicide either.

It's the quiet ones that are the most dangerous.

I also think the Christian sighting are Jacob. Jack seems to be the one targeted for growth throughout the whole show. His father lead him to water, told the dog Jack had things to do and even started Locke on his quest after the 'help me' request. We all assumed it was a request to be saved. Maybe it was a request to die.

#281. Posted by: pebspostal at March 13, 2010 11:54 AM

@280. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso
re: I can't connect how Alana knows that he can read the dead. Didn't they just meet in the temple?

Hmmmmmmmm - Could this be a hint that Widmore is on Jacob's side? Widmore did assemble the crew for the freighter, and if both he and Ilana are on the same side, it would make sense that she would have this info.

With that said, Widmore could also be an agent for MIB, and Jacob's forces being aware of this, were simply keeping an eye on all of his activity.

And whose kidding who - maybe Jacob told her about Miles when he briefed her on what to do to get to the island?


@281. Posted by: pebspostal
re: Maybe it was a request to die.

All Lost viewers will be shocked when the show ends, and the main theme turns out to be a propaganda piece for assisted suicide. ;)

#282. Posted by: shikotee at March 13, 2010 1:03 PM

Don't forget, Bram tried to stop Miles from even getting on the freighter in the first place (Miles then demanded they pay him more than Widmore was, and when they wouldn't pay up, he went anyhow). Ilana's crew seemed to be very well informed about the Freighties even before their mission started.

More importantly, Bram told Miles that Miles was on the wrong side, and that Bram was on the side "that is gonna win".

#283. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 13, 2010 9:55 PM

@DocH #274 re: BAM!

The BAM was for our/the audience's acceptance of Miles as a Lostie. He has been played off as comic relief along with Hurley but now, with Widmore coming back into play, it will be interesting to see if his past allegiances will come into play.

I have been trying to decide if there is any way that Miles could blame Ben for the fact that he had to leave the island and never really had a relationship with his father. Daddy issues anyone? Don't know if it would fit, but again an interesting angle to consider.

@FenwayBen #283 re: "More importantly, Bram told Miles that Miles was on the wrong side, and that Bram was on the side "that is gonna win"."

Great recall! I need to go back and rewatch all of those episodes.

I am gonna be soo excited if my Miles theories pan out, although, I'm still not holding my breath that they will.

#284. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 14, 2010 12:00 AM

First Locke gets played for his kidney, due to his desire to have a father. Then The Island/MIB used his desire for a purpose to apparently long-con him out of his ENTIRE BODY!!! Was this the real reason he was brought to the island? Was he just recruited for the island because he was a born sucker, just like the drug narc guy used him to bust the pot-growing commune? OR... are there other forces at work and is there redemption for him yet? Is Locke's mind still in the body of Flocke, deep down, waiting to get out?

#285. Posted by: Pete at March 14, 2010 1:16 PM

@272 Marlisa:

No worries! Having Ben on the Brain is easy to do after Michael Emerson's BRILLIANT and provocative portrayal in last week's ep.

#286. Posted by: GatorGal at March 14, 2010 1:25 PM

Re: "Smokey can only look like Locke in human form now." ... Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but did anybody else notice that Smokey DID in fact take on the form of Alex during Ben's "judgement" scene in the temple? We did not yet know that Flocke was Flocke, but there it is. Inconsistency?

#287. Posted by: Pete at March 14, 2010 2:14 PM

@Pete

IMHO, Flocke was only trapped in Locke's body after Locke's dead body was buried. Ilana made the comment about him being stuck in Flocke's form as they were walking over to bury him. I think the two are connected.

#288. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 14, 2010 2:51 PM

While we are waiting for Tuesday, I was reading about the Biblical Jacob - so many similar themes and overlapping storylines with Lost:

Jacob's father was Isaac the one who was nearly sacrificed by his own father, Abraham.

Jacob has a twin brother Esau. Esau was born first, with Jacob grasping his heel. The name Jacob has a figurative meaning - "he deceives".

Jacob dreamed of a stairway (ladder) to heaven where angels came up and down.

Jacob "cons" his father Isaac into giving him the birthright intended for the older son.

Jacob gets "conned" into marrying Leah, the sister of the woman he loves.

He eventually marries his true love, Rachael, but she struggles with "infertility".

She finally has a son Joseph - who has "dreams and visions" and is able to interpret dreams, is hated by his brothers, sold into "slavery", but later becomes a ruler in "Egypt" in charge of the storehouse of grain.

Before Rachael dies she has another son named "Benjamin" (meaning son of my right hand)

Jacob has the opportunity to reunite with brother, Esau, from whom he has stolen the birthright. He wrestles all night with a man who turns out to be God. Jacob won't let go until God touches and injures his leg at the hip. God gives Jacob a new name, Israel, but does not reveal his own name.

Joseph is reunited with his family and forgives his brothers after a famine causes them to come to Egypt for food.

When Jacob dies he is embalmed in Egypt, then taken home and laid to rest in a cave - not with the wife he loved, but with the one he was first conned into marrying.

Just interesting, that's all.

#289. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 14, 2010 3:00 PM

@287. Pete: I hope that is explained at some point.

@288. lost2theworld: That makes no sense. Ilana says she was dragging the body all over the Island to show Jacob what he was up against, and that Smokey was "stuck" as Locke...that was all before Locke was buried.

#290. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 14, 2010 4:32 PM

@FenwayBen

Did she say that she was "dragging the body all over" to show Jacob *specifically* what he was up against? Or was she doing that to prove to everyone what they were up against...I really don't remember for sure. I was thinking that it was the the latter, though. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, just ask my husband ;-)

Even if that was true, I don't think it would negate my other point. They buried Locke's body after Jacob was dead. I am 99% sure that Ilana made the comment that Flocke was trapped on the trek over to bury Locke's body. Enough of the islanders had seen Locke's dead body by then that Ilana could count on others to help her spread the word about Flocke.

There have been many discussions here about why they always buried bodies and/or burnt them. That has led to speculation that if a body isn't buried, then it is fair game for Smokey to "use." I think there is a connection. As stated previously, I will be proven wrong on Tuesday, I'm sure!

#291. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 14, 2010 8:25 PM

I think Flocke became trapped in Locke's body when Jacob was killed. This would explain how he still did Alex embodiment, and why Ilana commented BEFORE burying body.

#292. Posted by: mtncbn at March 14, 2010 9:13 PM

#292. mtncbn: FLocke being trapped when Jacob was killed:

ealgumby said the same thing earlier this evening. My question is why would Jacob's death have that effect? (My earlier questions of why Jacob could be killed & would bleed as opposed to FLocke not being able to be killed & not bleeding still stand, too.)

If Jacob knew that his death would trap MIB in Locke's body, did Jacob engineer his being killed by Ben to make that come about?

#293. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 14, 2010 10:14 PM

Ack is up!

#294. Posted by: Skipper at March 14, 2010 11:37 PM

@293 AL

"My question is why would Jacob's death have that effect?"
because that's what fits the script?

"why Jacob could be killed & would bleed as opposed to FLocke not being able to be killed & not bleeding still stand, too.)"
Jacob was still a real body. Flocke is not?

"If Jacob knew that his death would trap MIB in Locke's body, did Jacob engineer his being killed by Ben to make that come about?"
Duh, that way he can engineer the final killing(termination) of MIB?

#295. Posted by: mtncbn at March 15, 2010 1:47 AM

One thing I'd forgotten in the excitement of the new season is "Lost Untangled". Those amusing recaps of the action are continuing on the ABC LOST website, and all the season 6 eps are using the 'Dr. Pierre Chang' puppet as the host.

Good fun, check them out. Oh, and by the way, don't know if the creators thereof read mac but they're going with Flocke for the MIB/Smoke Monster/Lockean character just like mac, although they pronounce it "Eff-Locke" rather than the "flock" I've been hearing in my head in mac's reviews and our discussion.

How about y'all, what's your version of the pronunciation of Flocke?

#296. Posted by: Cecil at March 15, 2010 8:19 AM

One thing I'd forgotten in the excitement of the new season is "Lost Untangled". Those amusing recaps of the action are continuing on the ABC LOST website, and all the season 6 eps are using the 'Dr. Pierre Chang' puppet as the host.

Good fun, check them out. Oh, and by the way, don't know if the creators thereof read mac but they're going with Flocke for the MIB/Smoke Monster/Lockean character just like mac, although they pronounce it "Eff-Locke" rather than the "flock" I've been hearing in my head in mac's reviews and our discussion.

How about y'all, what's your version of the pronunciation of Flocke?

#297. Posted by: Cecil at March 15, 2010 9:46 AM

I've been leaning toward fffa-Locke.

#298. Posted by: davidrh at March 15, 2010 10:51 AM

MIB is not trapped in Locke's body. Locke's real body is now buried on Boone Hill.
MIB is using a duplicate "body." And he is not trapped inside the duplicate, because he can continue to transform into Smokey.

#299. Posted by: welh at March 15, 2010 11:16 AM

@295/mtncbn- “Duh, that way he can engineer the final killing(termination) of MIB?”

Dude, who pissed in your Wheaties? “Duh” is such a troll response … but that’s obvious, duh!

Regarding the core questions, which are not quite as clear as you imply …
There’s a certain tautology associated with it being “obvious” that Jacob let himself be killed ala Obi-Wan … the “logic” seems to be, “he let himself be killed, because he knew that would result in Flocke being trapped in Locke’s body, which is going to eventually help Jacob bring him down, and we know that’s true because Ilana said so.”

SO many things wrong with this …

Ilana said Flocke was now trapped in Locke’s form, but she did not say why, or exactly when this had occurred.

Many have assumed (myself among them) that Jacob’s death was somehow the trigger for the Flocke body trap … once again though, this has not been definitively stated on the show, nor has any rationale been presented, via canon material, which would support that theory.

Lacking any verification that Jacob’s death was actually responsible for trapping Flocke in Locke’s form, let alone that he knew it would, it then does NOT follow that Jacob let himself be killed as part of some master plot to do MIB in. Therein lies the tautology … you cannot prove the premise by assuming the conclusion; it’s circular “logic.’ BTW, “because that's what fits the script” is not proof either, but I’m sure you know that, duh.

Next, Jacob actually bleeding and dying (apparently confirmed by Miles) seems to separate him from MIB … but how/why? In the beach scene where “Smokey” is still in the form of MIB with Jacob, they both still appear to be humans, if perhaps “immortal,” but again we do not know the details.

What happened to MIB such that he became Smokey? Did anything, or was he already Smokey in the form of MIB when he appeared in the beach scene with Jacob? Has MIB already “died?” Will Jacob now also have the ability to appear in the form of “Smokey” now that he’s “dead” too? Lots of legit questions without obvious answers, IMO …

Finally, if Flocke is “trapped” in the form of Locke, how is it that he can still appear as Smokey? If he can appear as Smokey, then why not in other forms as well?

These are all questions that arise from Ilana’s simple comment, and there are no canonical answers to any of them. For some reason though, many people are taking subsequent leaps of logic as givens, without any basis.

I would suggest this is almost “duh” obvious, yet little has been made of these issues, so apparently it is not that clear after all. Hence the questions being asked for further discussion …

#300. Posted by: ealgumby at March 15, 2010 1:15 PM

Ok so having been a bit of a lurker on the Blog and a previous regular contributor on the old filmfodder forum I am going to contribute my latest theory which no doubt has a number of wholes to pick at. I am not saying this is purely my own theory I may have been influenced by others.

Arron is Jacob and whole thing is the largest convoluted loop.

Ok so at the end of Season 5 Flocke says to Jacob it always ends the same way. Indeed I believe it does, and the reason it does is because Arron is always born on the Island in at least one timeline.

So Arron is the only child born on the Island since the Incident. He is therefore able to time travel both on Island and off Island. He changes his name to Jacob later, this is purely a story telling device since the writers would have given the game away way back in Season 2.

By the way I also believe the Incident is different everytime the loop is renewed. In the loop in which Arron is born on the Island, the incident was purely drilling into a massive pocket of radioactivity. This is the timeline which is currently on Island. The sideways timeline we are looking at now i.e. flash sideways off Island is the result of the Island sinking and blowing up in the 1970's.

The Island blowing up in the 70's solved nothing since Jacob was never replaced by the new candidates.

Flocke's comment was true, i.e. they never get replaced in their role as Ying & Yang Island protectors. Both Jacob and Floke protect the Island in their own way.

Now this where I go a bit random and out there.

Arron is now a time traveller, as he ages he hones his time travelling skills and learns from Kate, his mother or whoever that he was born on the Island. He seeks the Island out and probably learns he can just foom there whenever he wants to. His Island connection is the strongest of all.

At some point he fooms to the past and way into the future. Explaining Smokey/Flocke being a protector from the future forced to spend eternity trapped on the Island by Jacob. The adult Arron/Jacob is 1000's of years old by the time we see him now and is as tired of being the Island protector as Flocke.

The problem is that he has brought the same people to the Island hundreds of times and may even be working on clues he has given himself before. The candidates may not be the right candidates but he is only going on the clues, technology and lists a previous version of reality has left him.

Similar to the film Momento where a guy loses his memory and has to tattoo himself and is manipulated by those around him. He is essentially manipulating himself.

Maybe Jacob even create the Island properties himself by his ability to time travel picking up technology from Ancients and future society.

The end will be Jack taking over as Island protector only to end up dying and not being the candidate as the candidate system is a flawed plan.

Final scene cut to Jack waking up on Island, just a different version of himself, and the whole thing loops again with different events leading to different problems but eventually never breaking the loop.

Problems with my theory include.....

1. Where did the Island come from originally, my Jacob created it idea is a bit of a stretch.

2. The bit where Jack has a cut on his neck in Season 6 (ep 1/2) on the plane. This is significant. Also some of the acting seems to suggest the sideways flash people know something is not right.


#301. Posted by: Kris at March 15, 2010 1:22 PM

@300 ealgumby
My apologies if I came off that way, I didn't mean to.
My poorly expressed intent was to be humorous, as most of the questions about Lost have no answers, except in TPTB cortex's. Did you note that all my flippant remarks had question marks after them?

#302. Posted by: mtncbn at March 15, 2010 2:15 PM

Regarding my theory above.

1. I realise it should be Aaron not Arron.

2. Unlike others on the net I do not believe David, Jack's sideways son to be MIB/Flocke.

3. I was influenced by others but the whole Jacob creating the Island; being Aaron and being special because he was born on the Island; and creating his own false clues was purely my idea.

#303. Posted by: Kris at March 15, 2010 2:50 PM

flash forward is back! YEAH!!!! ;-)

#304. Posted by: tiffani at March 15, 2010 3:22 PM

@297-cecil,
i found ack's name for MIB very amusing,
"MOCKE"

#305. Posted by: san at March 15, 2010 3:45 PM

...ohh & by the way,her recap for "DR. LINUS" is up.

#306. Posted by: san at March 15, 2010 3:50 PM

Man o man o manischevitz, I gotta tell ya…I don’t trust either of those two, Jacob OR MIB.

Reminds me of the story…you know how to tell the difference between a schlemiel and a schlemozzle? A schlemiel is a guy who gets all dressed up to take his best girl to a fine restaurant and during dinner he spills his soup. A schlemozzle is the guy he spills it on.

These two, Jacob and MIB aren’t much different. They’re both all dressed up and spilling their soup on our Losties, manipulating thems to do their bidding. A touch of immortality here, a promise of island power there, a smattering of “they’re holding your baby” here, a spoonful of “let’s leave this island” there. It’s all a bunch of malarkey I tells ya.

I think it’s going to come down to Jack seeing through the Smoky screen and finding a third option, neither Jacob nor MIB. I also think Ben is going to be Gollum to Jack’s Frodo and play a crucial part in the end-game.

Either that, or Vincent is going to pull aside the curtain…

It’s just a stupid TV show – why does it make me so friggin’ nuts?!?!

#307. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 15, 2010 4:00 PM

#307. ransomjackson: Theory of the day:

I completely agree w/you...I would love to see either Sayid or Sawyer tell both Ghost Jacob (assuming he doesn't show up as someone else) & FLocke "A plague on both your houses!"

(Why them? Because Sayid's accent would make the line sound awesome & because Sawyer would find a way to make the line extremely smart-ass.)

If Ben is Gollum, then Jack better watch his fingers... ; >

#308. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 15, 2010 4:26 PM

You know, the POD was the Incident, so no duh they were in Dharma

#309. Posted by: Bob at March 15, 2010 8:35 PM

@300. Posted by: ealgumby

Well duh....... ;)

#310. Posted by: shikotee at March 15, 2010 10:10 PM

haiku cont.

Ben digs his own grave,

Diamonds motivate cad Miles,

Ilana pro-life.

#311. Posted by: DocH at March 15, 2010 11:39 PM

It's Tuesday! Now when's it going to be Eight o'clock?

#312. Posted by: Cecil at March 16, 2010 1:04 AM

Misunderstanding,
Emoticons anyone?
No harm duh(n) says Bob ;)

#313. Posted by: ealgumby at March 16, 2010 8:42 AM

@302/310/311 ... and 309:

Misunderstanding,
Emoticons anyone?
No harm duh(n) says Bob ;)

#314. Posted by: ealgumby at March 16, 2010 8:45 AM

Is it Tuesday yet?
When will it be 8 o'clock?
Probably at 8.

#315. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 16, 2010 11:48 AM

@297, Cecil: The Lost Untangled pieces are often quite funny. I posted a link to one of them in the comments of (I think) Sundown.

Anyway, the voice in my head pronounces Flocke like Flocke, not Eff-Locke. Eff-Locke is rather silly, isn't it? Now, if sideways Locke turns out to be Flocke I'll be willing to go for SFLocke, i.e. Es-Eff-Locke. :)

I don't know where the name Flocke originated, but also Doc Jensen over at EW uses it, among a host of other names, my favorite of which probably is the Locke-Ness Monster.

@293, Alaïs_Longthought, and others: Why would Jacob's death trap MIB in Locke's body?

Of course I can't provide any in-show reason, since I don't know more than any of you about what the writer's reasons are, but to my layman's eyes it does (sort of) make sense in a mythological way. I might be way off here (if there are any myth experts around, speak up), but I do notice a lot of parallels with (other) myths. Often deities or other `supernatural' beings in myths take on physical form, usually to exert some power over the physical world, but end up getting trapped in it or hindered by it. Sometimes it's the price they have to pay for their desire to dominate, in other stories it's apparently a choice they made knowing full well the consequences. It's not always as clear cut, so probably I'm seeing things that are not there, but often at least two of the three elements are there: 1. Deity takes physical form. 2. The reason is to have more direct influence over the physical world in some way, either benevolently or not (most often not). 3. There is a price to pay in the end.

Examples:

In Norse mythology Loki got captured while hiding from the Aesir in a waterfall in the form of a fish. The domination theme is not present here, not in this particular instance at least, but there is definitely a price to pay for taking on the form of a fish for Loki.

In Greek mythology Zeus often took on physical form, usually to go out and either seduce or rape someone. Taking on physical form to dominate women, that seems to be what it comes down too. He seemingly got away with it most of the time too.

In christian mythology god took on a human body for a while, apparently to teach directly without intermediary. The price is that he got killed or at the very least tortured. I guess we see all three themes in this case.

The most clear examples I can think of are in Tolkien's mythology (I like to take examples from his work, since not only many people are familiar with his work, but the way he constructed it means it carries many themes from older mythologies as well; and I happen to be relatively familiar with it). Morgoth, the original 'fallen angel' in Tolkien's mythology used to be the most powerful of all the Valar, but he started investing his power in creating physical forms as slaves (orcs, dragons, etc) and this diluted his power to a point where even he could be beaten. Also, he used to be able to take on any form he pleased, like all of the Valar, but as his power waned he got stuck in one form (sounds familiar?). This story is almost copied in his lieutenant Sauron. He too could take on many forms, which he actually used to his advantage, to deceive people. But after the downfall of Numenor, brought about in part through his deceit, he was stuck in his body. He had diluted his power, most obviously by pouring lots of it into the One Ring. But there are examples of this idea on the side of the `good guys' as well. The Istari, the wizards send to help the people of Middle-earth, they are deities as well, but they took on physical form with all its limitations of their own volition, in order to go and and help the people without giving in to the will to dominate. Didn't turn out all that well for most of them.


"If Ben is Gollum, then Jack better watch his fingers... ; >" @ 308: O great, now I have that image making the rounds in my head. :)

#316. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 16, 2010 12:01 PM

I was just reading Doc Jenson, whom I have found late in the series - this year....(Boy he makes some far reaching references.) and they were talking about the Black Rock and how strange it was when we found it in the middle of the Jungle.

Well, suppose the possible time loop we have all talked about is a HUGE one that repeats over a a LOT of time. Maybe the island sinks and rises and sinks and rises and that's how the black rock got there. I know we saw it sailing in to the island. but maybe it was at anchor, island sinks and then rises again. or the BR goes with the island down and up.

Just thinking....I am very much at sea myself this season.

#317. Posted by: berkyo at March 16, 2010 1:38 PM

I am in need of a dose of Lost to take me away from the real world for an hour or two. TGIT!

#318. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 16, 2010 2:11 PM

It's Flocke=Flock like in sheep.

So who was in the cabin?
Who asked Locke for help?

Was the ash circle to keep smokey out? or in?

In seems more plausible.
But he was roaming the island.
Right?

So It was to keep smokey out.
Why? Was Jacob in there?

In either case wouldn't it appear to be that "they"(Who?) were trying to keep Jacob and smokey separate? Why?

or was Smokey keeping Jacob prisoner? why? to keep him from helping the candidates? while he manipulated Locke so he could have use body and get Ben to kill Jacob?

OTOH Ilana and crew went directly to the cabin to show Jacob they had Locke's body. And they saw the break in the ash circle and were concerned. SO did Jacob break out? Smokey break in? What?

Or was Ben keeping Jacob or Smokey locked in the Cabin? Seems like it would be Jacob because smokey was out and about.

Sometimes it helps me to write things out here and get them clear in my mind. .......Not helping today.

#319. Posted by: berkyo at March 16, 2010 2:18 PM

Hey, all. Back again. Yes, I'm completely out of touch with this blog this season. Sorry. I've been reading every post, though. A *ton* of great ideas being posited and a lot of fantastic observations as well. The person who mentioned Ben "gassing" his dad - fantastic connecting the dots!

@317: berkyo (and everyone else for that matter) - If you're not reading Doc Jensen over at EW you REALLY need to start. His thoughts and observations are simply unmatched. He's put forth some ideas that I'm still contemplating weeks later, and this week will be no exception with his connecting all of the divorce/marriage/separation/death theme of this season.

I really miss the conversations here, it's been unavoidable with the new job I've taken on that requires me to travel from client to client with no real personal time available during the day any more to take a break, read this blog, and post my thoughts. That, plus the kids I come home to at night and starting a workout routine in the morning and all of my spare time is gone.

ilovebenjaminlinusxx - You must be simply dying with this whole last episode focused on Dr. Linus himself.

ealgumby, Cecil, Plain Simple, Alaïs_Longthought, randomjackson, shikotee, meg, mizzed, davidrh, gatorgal, scooby-dude, skipper, wehl, bunnylover, frogurt, lost2theworld, san, fenwayben, mtncbn, and all of the other regulars (I'm sorry if I've left some of you out), it's killing me not to be here. I *am* reading every single post as I can on the train to/from the city (boy, it's hard to keep up!), so I still feel like I'm here but with tape over my mouth (and you know I usually have a big mouth). But using what time I've got left to read what everyone here has to say just doesn't leave any time to comment. I'm going to try this coming week to find some new way(s) to find time to post. If not, someone just throw a shout-out my way once in a while. I'm out here, reading away...

#320. Posted by: LostedIt at March 16, 2010 2:48 PM

@319 berkyo muddled:

>Or was Ben keeping Jacob or Smokey locked in the Cabin? Seems like it would be Jacob because smokey was out and about.

>Sometimes it helps me to write things out here and get them clear in my mind. .......Not helping today.

Well, whe know, or think we know, that the Christian apparition was in the cabin when Locke met him, and presummably when Hurley stumbled onto the cabin. We also know that later he was out when he met Claire and Aaron at the campfire while Sawyer slept and Miles just looked on.

My supposition. It was always Smokey/ MIB in the cabin. (Including the "Help Me" moment). But it's only his human form whish is confined there. Smokey the monster is out (maybe was always out) while his human manifesting apability was trapped there. Which would sort of indicate that Smokey can do his manifesting from a distance, seeing as the Smoke monster couldn't cross the ash.

Alternative explanation: It was always Jacob in there, until whoever broke the ring let him out. In which case FChristian must be/have been Jacob, and was telling the truth when he said he could speak for him.

Blow your mind speculation: What if both Jacob AND MIB can manifest as smoke monsters, and somewhere along the way we have a showdown/smackdown?

I'd buy a ticket. Good as a monster truck ralley and a tractor pull rolled into one.


#321. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 16, 2010 2:51 PM

Here's some thoughts I have that have not been covered in the posts:
1) Jacob and MIB are following some set of rules. Whose rules are they? I mentioned after the first episode of this season or the season finale of S5 that perhaps we're going to see one final "pull-back" revealing one more layer we've not been privy to. Perhaps there's "one ring that binds them all" so to speak.
2) Jacob was a physical entity. Why was/is MIB *not* a physical entity? He appeared as someone on the beach in the S5 finale, yet since then we've never seen that actor. Are we to infer that he had a physical body that he could transform into the smoke monster and return to whenever he wanted? Or was that "person" we saw just another physical projection? Jacob certainly was human, wasn't MIB as well in that episode? And if he was, then couldn't Jacob have done similar, or the same, things as MIB prior to being killed? Or did he have different "powers"? We know Jacob had the power to touch people and give them special abilities (like Richard living forever). Could Jacob have manifested himself as smokey or as dead people?
3) In the debate of good vs. bad, certainly one can argue that both Jacob and MIB have pronounced grey areas that leave everyone wondering if either of them really is truly on either side. That being said, nobody really seems to have touched on the fact that Flocke has mostly been guiding people to kill others that are in his way but Jacob has been guiding others to some pre-determined path they need to (or should, or are he hopes destined to) follow. Granted, that path might be to replace him, which would seem a selfish act, but we don't know really what Jacob's job really is/was. Is he a protector of humanity's future, the island, his own future (A.D.)? Is his only job to keep MIB in check, lock him, as it were, on the island, to protect the rest of the world from him? Even in death he's still manipulating people's actions, to what end?
4) A lot of talk has been bantered about regarding what the alternate timeline really is and when it started. My two cents is it definitely didn't begin at the point that the plane didn't crash (and many others agree) but I also wonder if it started when Juliet detonated (or didn't) the bomb. Leaning away from that point is the fact that Ben is a good person who dotes on his father. That leads one to believe he wasn't scarred by his history with his father prior to that moment, and thus the fracture into two realities occurred much earlier than that. The alternate argument is that Ben was "changed" in being healed by Richard et al and that we all saw his dad seeming quite worried about his son and remorseful for everything he'd done up to that point, so perhaps Ben "forgot" his scarred past and Roger became a changed man. So one could go either way with this one. But what about a third possibility? What if this alternate timeline we're looking at isn't a split at ALL from the "primary" timeline? What if the other timeline always existed? The theory of infinite (or at least multiple) realities leads that that we each exist in multiple universes, multiple realities, and each one exists completely independently of the other ones, some slightly different than one another and some greatly different. The butterfly effect, if you will, where even the tiniest differences in a given action can have small or even great consequences to the future of everything else. So what if the bomb did detonate, and the "energy" at the bottom of the well that was accidentally tapped into reacted with the bomb in such a way as to partially join, or connect, the "primary" reality as we know it and this "alternate" reality we've be presented with this season? My thought is that the individuals one each "side" are now linked in some way(s) such that actions on one side are influencing actions on the other, or are moving in unison on both sides in ways that cannot consciously be realized. Thus the reason why we're being shown the similarities in the way people are acting on both sides and the similarities in the outcomes on both sides. This "alternate" reality is a "better" one for many of the Losties, and that "goodness" is being "leaked back" or is affecting the actions/results of things happening on the "primary" reality (from our perspective, the primary one is the one we've seen for the past five seasons). So perhaps the "alternate" reality isn't a goal, per se, to reach but rather a means by which the Losties can be "healed" of their faults, and thus return to (or start on) a path that is better for them and their future. I'm not saying the two won't be joined into one at some point, that certainly could be the goal of Team Darlton, or perhaps one reality will fade away in deference to the other. But I'm thinking of this new idea as a much better fit for what we've seen so far this season and for where the show may be going as the final episodes of this series wind to a close.

Ok, so there, I found time to post a good long note! Hooray for me! And I think I managed to not repeat anything that's been said before (mostly). Hoo-hah! davidrh, I await an AHHHHHH from you but I think I'm good.

I hope everyone manages to see this post, it being so late in the week. If not, I may re-post in tomorrow's blog.

TTFN!

#322. Posted by: LostedIt at March 16, 2010 3:27 PM

@322/LostedIt asked "Could Jacob have manifested himself as smokey or as dead people?"

Yes, and here is a wild tangent explanation: Jacob is MIB. Or more exact, MIB is to Jacob as Dave is to Hurley: an imaginary friend, his conscious incarnate, or his split personality.

#323. Posted by: welh at March 16, 2010 4:03 PM

@322 Lostedit, Better late than never. Very thoughtful, maybe even right, and remarkably clear for such a turgidity (is that a word?) as we have elected to submerge ourselves in for the past fice years (has it really been that long?), like the Temple Jacuzzi.

#324. Posted by: August Paul at March 16, 2010 4:49 PM

Speaking of Ack, who knew that she could channel Gloria Gaynor! Of Richard, she says: "He told Jack that at first he was afraid, he was petrified – he had spent his long-ass life thinking he could never live without Jacob by his side, but lately he’s spent so many nights thinking how he’d done him wrong, and he grew strong, and now he’s learning how to get along."

#325. Posted by: lovelost at March 16, 2010 4:58 PM

@320 LostedIt

Awww... Much luv right back atcha.
XOXO,
S.

#326. Posted by: Skipper at March 16, 2010 4:59 PM

@323: welh - That's some imaginary friend when he's what gets you killed. Though that is pretty much what Dave tried to do to Hurley. I probably would not subscribe to that theory, although I would "return serve" with a proposition that the two are inextricably linked, that one cannot exist without the other. That being said, Jacob doesn't exist in the physical sense any more. MIB doesn't know that, which is likely going to be his downfall at some point in the future, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't think they are one and the same, at least in the sense that one is a manifestation of the other. Smokey, Alex, Eko's brother, and others like them are manifestations. While smokey might be a special type of manifestation, kind of a "gaseous form" of Flocke vs representations of dead people that the rest are, I still don't think one could call Flocke just an "imaginary friend" of sorts of Jacob. With him being dead and all, that kind of eliminates the ability of Jacob to "imagine" him per se. If anything, his death should have killed off MIB as well. Don't know what exactly either one of them are enough to venture a guess as to what the "rules" are about whether one can be a manifestation of the other and whether death breaks that rule or not.

Here's what I would think, though. It's possible that Jacob made MIB who/what he is, thus the reason for his resentment towards him. Even if Jacob wasn't the one that made him who/what he is, he certainly is the reason he cannot escape. He knew that as long as Jacob was alive he was trapped on the island and that he could not kill Jacob himself, thus the whole "loophole" storyline. Thinking this through, there are two primary possibilities I can think of:
1) MIB is some type of evil entity for which Jacob was made a guardian over for all eternity. Jacob may not even be the first one to be guarding over MIB. Thus the idea of a replacement. Perhaps Jacob is a replacement for someone else, some time back in the Egyptian days, thus his knowledge of and weaving of Egyptian themes, or for perhaps Greek/Latin times.
2) MIB and Jacob are fulfilling some incredibly ancient guardianship of the island. Jacob inherited the position from someone else. MIB may have been forced into the position. Both are following some ancient guidelines by which their stewardship of the island is bound, or at least Jacob's. I think he's been a real pr*ck to MIB by not filling him in on all of the details and thus the resentment, but that being said I also think not knowing the whole back-story makes speculation about how they both got into the positions they're in and what exactly those positions on a bit sketchy.

Ok, that's my two cents.

#327. Posted by: LostedIt at March 16, 2010 5:25 PM

@297 Cecil and @305 san

I hear "flock" as well and that is the moniker I prefer. "Eff-locke" doesn't do it for me. Why use 2 syllables when one will suffice?

That said, we can always try:

Smocke - Smoke Locke
Socke - Smoke Locke but without the annoying M.
E-Locke - Evil Locke
Udalocke - Undead Apparition Locke
Not-Locke - Duh!

Of course, TPTB seem to prefer Un-Locke.

#328. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at March 16, 2010 5:25 PM

@ 319
- -
re: It's Flocke=Flock like in sheep.
- -
and who is in charge of a "flock like in sheep" ?

a shepherd (jack? christian? margo? aaron?)

#329. Posted by: ANON2 at March 16, 2010 5:37 PM

@LostedIt

I hate it when life gets in the way of Lost obsessive disorder. You know that's what we all have...LOD. I'm sure there are government funds available to help deal with our condition! Who wants to do the research? Anyone? Bueller?

We miss you and I feel your pain!

#330. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 16, 2010 7:16 PM

@ hurling - 243
@ilovebenjaminlinusxx - only 1 post? And a short one - I thought you'd be babbling on in ecstasy! IMNSHO, this was one of the best episodes of the series.

@ LostedIt - 320
ilovebenjaminlinusxx - You must be simply dying with this whole last episode focused on Dr. Linus himself.

_____

YES ah I wish I was able to be involved in the discussion of this episode. WOW it was AMAZING.

Now I am on Spring break but last week was all exams and papers. I had one 30 page research paper that I spent way more effort on than I should have, but probably because I decided to wait till the last minute to do it.

It's really bumming me out how I don't seem able to get the full "Lost Experience" with this blog because I don't seem to have much time. As opposed to the ridiculous amount of time I had last season. Obviously I would never miss watching an episode but ah.

I just started reading the posts today, which bites since today is also the new episode.

I felt for Benry this episode. I'm sure everyone did. Even those who dislike him. That speech to Illana was PRICELESS. Made me a bit teary... but I don't cry so...

Jack is getting better. I was impressed with the scene with Richard and the dynamite. Someone mentioned early on how he wasn't breathing all annoying in that scene! (Cecil - 14: "That crazy-a**ed Jack would be so much fun? And not one tear? And no breathing noises?") Completely agree. definitely made the scene all the more brilliant and awesome.

I must admit, at this rate, I'm cool with Jack getting Jacob status... as long as Kate's not anywhere near him.

Ben's character is amazing, and so is Michael Emerson as an actor. Best episode so far. Once again, Ben never disappoints. I love the way he runs! HA

A lot of irony in this episode as well. I found the parallels quite intriguing.

Loved when Ben changed Roger's oxygen! Also loved the island--school parallel.

I always had faith they'd make Paulikki's tidbit meaningful. I hope they take the diamond thing further with Miles, or anyone for that matter. But it was nice of Darlton to add that in.

Hopefully this week I can keep up with the posts. I feel so empty without this... and it's the last chance because it's the last season. =/

#331. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 16, 2010 7:24 PM

A question I thought of this week while watching the enhanced episode:

Why does Ben not wear glasses on the island anymore? He wore them as a child. He wears them in his flash-sideways. Why not present-time in island life? Did he lose them? Were they purely cosmetic because every evil mastermind needs something to hide behind? Did he get off the island a few years ago and have lasik surgery?

Just wondering if anyone knew...

#332. Posted by: Angelkiss at March 16, 2010 10:42 PM

@292. mtncbn: FWIW, in last week's podcast, the producers said that Jacob's death was what trapped him as Locke.

#333. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 16, 2010 10:58 PM

O M G ... Water- Ship- Down!?!???!!!!!
Seriously - THE BEST EVER EPISODE!! I have no idea how mac can summarize this epi without blowing up. I had so many WTF moments I actually cried...(and I think I peed my pants too - GIRLS. - back me up here)

WHAaaaa?? GOD I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!

#334. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 16, 2010 11:44 PM

LostedIt, I hope you'll find some time here and there to read and write. I'm reading. And thanks for the shout out!

@332, Angelkiss: "Why does Ben not wear glasses on the island anymore?"

Perhaps the Island's healing mojo? "Sorry dr. Linus. Can't heal your tumor directly, but I will do something about those bug eyes, thank you very much."


Just watched the new episode, on my way to the new blog post.

#335. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 17, 2010 10:41 PM