The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Recon"

Season 6, Episode 8
Episode Air Date: 03/16/10

Point 1

Sawyer Flocke

This felt like a moving-the-pieces episode. Widmore is here. Flocke is there. Sawyer is playing both sides. That kind of thing. There's always one or two of these in every season. That's not a bad thing -- not by any stretch -- but this type of "groundwork laying" always signals a season's final act. And this year, the ramp-up to the conclusion is bittersweet.

But enough of that! There was plenty of good stuff to chew on in this episode. So let's get to it.

Sawyer wants to sulk. He wants to be selfish. He really wants to squish a frog. But his days in Dharma and his relationship with Juliet and that do-gooder streak he desperately tries to hide keep conspiring against his bad habits. If you think about it, Sawyer is far more heroic than Jack. Who bailed from the helicopter? Who weaved the grand lie that kept Miles, Juliet and Jin safe for all those years? That's why, when early in this episode Sawyer tells Jin they won't leave the island without Sun, and later, when he assures Kate they'll both get off the island, I believe the guy. He's a killer and a con man, but he's also Mr. Clutch. I'd rather give him the ball with two seconds left than watch Jack chuck a low-percentage three from half-court.

But is our con man with a heart of gold the one who's actually being conned? That's the big question. Flocke sends him off to the Hydra island to spy on the remaining Ajirans. Or that's what he wants Sawyer to believe. Whether Flocke knows Charles Widmore has set up camp on the small island is up for debate. Flocke seemed surprised at Widmore's return. He also seemed pleased with Sawyer's honesty. But what does Flocke already know? If he shares Jacob's omniscience, all that "surprise" is just window dressing in his own long con. It's going to be a damn shame if Sawyer gets out-conned here.

There's also the possibility that Widmore and Flocke are on the same team. If that's the case, Sawyer is deeply, deeply screwed. Now, I know we clearly saw Widmore's science geeks setting up Sonic Fence 2.0, but that might be a misdirection. Who knows what that thing does? It might be some wacky electromagnetic atmospheric device dreamed up years ago by Faraday. Or maybe it's a beacon that'll guide Desmond, Penny, little Charlie and Mrs. Hawking to the Widmore Family Luau.

That covers the broad strokes, but there are a couple other aspects to these Sawyer/Flocke/Widmore scenes we need to explore:

-- Flocke is infinitely fascinating to me. He fibs a bit with Cindy, Emma and Zack, telling them that the Temple denizens were killed by the smoke monster, but failing to mention that he is said monster. Yet moments later he admits to Sawyer -- without much prompting, mind you -- that he and the smoke monster are one in the same. Is this a "candidate" thing? Does Flocke bend the truth with underlings but play it straight with Jacob's chosen ones? (Cindy's last name is Chandler, by the way. Did anyone see that name in Jacob's lighthouse or on the cave wall?)

Flocke also has two intriguing conversations with Kate. First, he tells Kate that he's the one who convinced Claire the Others took Aaron. His honesty is disarming and his reasoning, hard to believe, is actually quite sound: he gave Claire something to hate so she could survive. But then, in a bizarre second conversation, Flocke reveals that his own mother was a wackjob whose insanity caused him "problems that could have been avoided had things been different." What is that about? I know he draws a parallel between his mother and Claire -- I get that -- but the "had things been different" part is what really intrigues me. Is that an allusion to an alternate timeline? Does Flocke's flight to freedom involve rewriting his own history?

Speaking of flights ... as many smart commenters predicted last week, we learn in this episode that Flocke has designs on Ajira 316. The plane appears to be in reasonable shape, but who's going to fly that sucker? Either Flocke's supernatural abilities extend to jet piloting or he'll need to be very nice to Frank Lapidus. Or, it's entirely possible the airplane is one giant distraction and Flocke intends to kill everyone moments after he commandeers a cruise ship and sets off for Fiji.

-- Widmore's arrival ushers in a new batch of characters we'll need to monitor and/or watch die in the inevitable firefight to come. The only one we formally meet in this episode is Zoe, a bespectacled woman who initially claims to be the only remaining Ajira 316 survivor. But Sawyer doesn't buy it so she calls in a foursome of armed and chubby cohorts. En route to a meeting with Widmore on the submarine, Sawyer also notes a smattering of additional guards and science types.

-- Lingering shots on a padlocked door usually means something important resides behind that door. And Sawyer went out of his way to mention those locks and that door to Flocke. Any guesses as to what Widmore has stowed away on his sub?

-- I must be slipping because I completely forgot about the other Ajirans. You know, the ones not sent to 1977, or the ones who didn't paddle to the big island, or the ones who weren't sent to protect Jacob and the candidates. I'm referring to those other poor suckers who were actually traveling to Guam. Ah, but someone surely remembered them because now they're all dead. But who's to blame? Smokey? Widmore? Zombie Karl?

Point 2

Sawyer Miles Charlotte

We've got a new variation in the alt timeline. Alt Sawyer exists in the gray area between the full-fledged redemption of Alt Jack and Alt Locke and the lost cause of Alt Sayid. It may be that Alt Sawyer -- and now that I think of it, Alt Kate, too -- represent ambiguity. Their alternate paths are certainly different than what we've seen from the originals, but they're still ethically dubious and/or motivated by base desires that transcend timelines. Put another way: Kate was always going to be a fugitive in one way or another and Sawyer was always going to be vengeful.

But I'm getting a little too deep. Sawyer's alt timeline is most notable for the following reasons:

  • He's a cop, not a con man. He goes by Det. James Ford in the altverse.
  • His LAPD partner is Miles.
  • James' tragic backstory is still the same: a con man named Sawyer seduced and duped James' mother, which led to the same murder-suicide that defined the original James Ford. And in the alternate reality, James Ford continues to hunt for Sawyer / Anthony Cooper. One key difference: it doesn't appear that Alt James wrote a letter to Sawyer. Perhaps in the altverse, Jacob wasn't there to give little James that pen.
  • James is single, which makes him an easy target for blind dates. Miles sets him up with a woman who works with Miles' father, and that woman turns out to be Charlotte. She and Sawyer get carnal (something to do with Indiana Jones and a whip ... I blocked most of that out). But their blossoming romance is sidetracked when Charlotte unwittingly looks through James' not-at-all-well-hidden "Sawyer" dossier. James' later attempt at reconciliation is denied by the cold-hearted Charlotte.
  • Alt Kate literally runs into James, which makes it very easy for James the cop to catch her. You'll recall that James actually facilitated Alt Kate's escape from the airport in the season six opener, "LA X." He recognizes her in this latest run-in.
  • Charlie's brother, Liam, briefly crosses paths with James at a police precinct. Liam is looking for Charlie, who's locked up while that "heroin overdose on an international flight" mishap gets ironed out by Driveshaft's legal team (or he gets a public defender).

Point 3

Kate Claire Sayid

First things first. This is the greatest prop in television history:

Claire's squirrel baby

It's also a segue into the anti-climactic "battle" between Claire and Kate. Claire, true to her word, does try to kill Kate. But Kate fends her off just long enough for Flocke to swoop in and send Claire to a Time Out.

And then, literally hours later, Claire apologizes and she and Kate embrace. Whether this uneasy truce holds up remains to be seen, but for now it appears that Kate is no longer on Claire's "to kill" list.

And Sayid? Good lord, what did Flock do to this guy? He's a glazed donut.

Point 4

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "Take me to your leader." -- Sawyer to Zoe.
  • Second Best Line: "It's kill or be killed. And I don't want to be killed. " -- Flocke to Sawyer.
  • Last week we learned from Ben and his father that Dharma and a non-sunken version of the island once existed in this alternate timeline. And this week, Miles offhandedly mentions that Charlotte works with his father at a museum. Was Alt Dr. Chang ever involved with Dharma? Did baby Miles spend any time on the island? Did young Charlotte? And, if so, why did they all leave?

That's all I've got!

Next Episode:

"Ab Aeterno" -- Hmm ... a title that roughly translates to "from the eternal." Wonder who that could be about? Airs Tuesday, March 23, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

First!

#1. Posted by: Kid at March 17, 2010 12:17 AM

second

#2. Posted by: Nidia at March 17, 2010 12:18 AM

Charlotte - a science whore??

Guess that be da' fact!

#3. Posted by: Charlotte at March 17, 2010 12:21 AM

WATERSHIP DOWN.

Nuff said. Oh, that n best f-n epi EVER!

Go-n to read the review now mac. Can't believe u got it up so fast. YOU ROCK!!!

#4. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 17, 2010 12:31 AM

Charlotte Nye !!!

The science Whore (guy) !!

#5. Posted by: Charlotte at March 17, 2010 12:33 AM

It seemed to me Flocke already knew Sawyer was trying to con him. So...I hope he doesn't die at the end of the show.

Who knows.

But I was happy to see he was a cop in the alternate (sorry) - sideways timeline. I would think they're essentially the same thing. Hm.

I was hoping Juliette would show up as the blind date but I was surprised when it was Charlotte. I half expected Daniel to come out and say 'Come with me if you want to live' to her. =)

#6. Posted by: Silhouette at March 17, 2010 12:39 AM

GRAA Mac!!!

I must say... I was very impressed with the opening of this episode. Very nice.

Charlotte??? Seriously?!?! Wow.

The Claire-Flocke dynamic was interesting.

Kate's naivety will kill her yet again. It's good that she seems to see that Claire is psychotic though.

I will be back... hopefully.

#7. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 17, 2010 12:39 AM

Oh, BunnyLover, we always knew you were a Sawyer junkie.

When Sawyer asked Kate "What's for dinner?" and she said "Rabbit, I think," how many wondered, like me:

"Did it have a number on it?"

#8. Posted by: Cecil at March 17, 2010 12:41 AM

Mac,

Thanks, from a serial lurker from season 2 on. OK, I posted a bit in season 3-4 - I was, (am?) convinced Naomi wasnt dead and was bitten by the Paulo/Nikki/Arzt (if only hed had an apron) spiders.

Anyway...

Smokey/Flocke's mommy issues were the most interesting thing to me in this episode. Is this why baby mamas on the island cant give birth and die - because MIB doesnt want to create any more screwed up babies like him? The ramifications for Aaron, and by extension Kate/Claire, are really interesting...

Sawyer was rad in this one. Ive come around on him in a big way. If you'll indulge a Sox fan, Jack is like Manny 2004 - the easy hero, the guy you wanted to like, the guy you knew would hit 40 dingers. But Sawyer is David Ortiz 2004 - a good-looker you werent too sure about, who turned out better than you could have dreamed. Just saying, 3-4 yrs later, both can still hit, but at least Papi didnt take steroids. Wait... OK, at least he didnt take steroids post-2004. I might be drunk...

Anyway, Mac, thanks. Excited to live the next (last) 8 episodes with y'all.

As always,

xo
-chopkins

#9. Posted by: chopkins at March 17, 2010 12:44 AM

There's a new sheriff in town!

And wow, what a slap in the face!

That prop should win some award.

#10. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 17, 2010 12:49 AM

Oh, Cecil, we always knew you were a Bunny Lover too.

When Sawyer asked Kate "What's for dinner?" and she said "Rabbit, I think,"
Well, I think I puked a litte in my mouth.

"Did it have a number on it?"

oh my - the irony my dear Cecil - you were post # 8.

Aaaaaaggh

Aaauuuggghhhh!!!

#8. Posted by: Cecil at March 17, 2010 12:41 AM DOWN.

Nuff said. Oh, that n best f-n epi EVER!

Go-n to read the review now mac. Can't believe u got it up so fast. YOU ROCK!!!

#11. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 17, 2010 12:58 AM

GRAA, Mac. One thing: I think Alt-Sawyer would still have written the letter to Sawyer. Sawyer's parents were killed in 1976, and the explosion happened in 1977. Unless of course, the explosion is not the driving force behind the alternate timeline at all. (That's my brother's theory.)

#12. Posted by: Freewill1978 at March 17, 2010 1:16 AM

Sawyer is the most interesting character, period. Loved the beginning with him being a cop. And Miles as his partner? Great.

I think the plane is just a decoy. I really don't think it can take off on the runway as it ran off the end when it landed.

I'm wondering when they'll quit the "Sideways" timeline - or will it go on till the end of the show?

Mac - Thanks man. You're the greatest.

#13. Posted by: dk at March 17, 2010 1:31 AM

"Ab Aeterno" really means "since eternity" or, in other words, since the beginning of time.
(trust me, portuguese came from latim)


I think we're finally get some answers about what the heck is, in fact, the Island and Richard's history.

#14. Posted by: PreacherOnun at March 17, 2010 1:40 AM

@dk: Maybe the Locke-Monster plans to turn the plane around himself. He's strong enough to uproot trees straight out of the ground, so perhaps he's also strong enough to manipulate a plane and get it facing the right way? (That would be some serious CGI at work.)

#15. Posted by: Freewill1978 at March 17, 2010 1:54 AM

@dk, #15 - so flocke is kind of a more heavy, uber-meaningful Yoda? I like it... he did undo Ben's ankle shack in a force kinda way... but I was pretty sure Yoda was all good, and didnt lie to innocent moms and plane-wrecked children. Ehh, details...

xo
-chopkins

#16. Posted by: chopkins at March 17, 2010 2:02 AM

Anyone notice the magic word Sawyer gave for cops to bust in. La Fluer! Made me smile ear to ear! Do

Did anyone see the title of the book that Charlotte touched on Sawyer's dresser? Had a rabbit on the cover.

#17. Posted by: Beth at March 17, 2010 2:38 AM

GRAA, Mac! You got an LOL bigtime w/your picture of Claire's faux "bay-bee." What the heck type of skull is that anyway???

*Totally* agree w/the assessment of Sawyer as the true hero, not Jack. Excellently stated, Mac.

Charlotte was a surprise, no? I should have guessed as soon as I saw the red hair. Miles's comment that Charlotte works w/his dad was a good reminder of just who Miles's dad is...it would be interesting to see if the alt timeline ever has Miles & Ben bumping into each other if Miles, his dad, & Charlotte still have a past history w/the island.

Poor Sayid.

Recon...reconnaissance, as in Sawyer scoping out Hydra for FLocke? or re-con, as in Sawyer conning both Widmore & FLocke? Just as a side note, the word reconnaissance stems from the French verb reconnaître, meaning to recognize or identify.

ealgumby pointed out that Sawyer recognized that Kate was fleeing from the marshal at the airport, as he noticed the handcuff on her right wrist in the elevator, but he helped her get away. How does this square w/him being a detective?

Do we now have a smoke monster w/mommy issues? (This would be a change from daddy issues, at least.) Or is MIB tapping into some of Locke's memories? As I recall, Emily was a few Apollo bars short of a full case...

I thought it was interesting that Kate refused to take FLocke's hand when he extended it to her to help her up. And if I were Kate, I wouldn't trust Claire, at all, ever.

#8. Cecil: Bunny w/a number?

Oh, you bet! Both ealgumby & I said the exact same thing! : )

#18. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 17, 2010 2:48 AM

1. Love how Sawyer’s code word is, “La fleur”
2. Miles says he has a girlfriend. Wonder who she is?!?! Any guesses?
3. Miles seems to know that James is lying to him from the very beginning. I wonder if he has psychic powers in the sideways world.
4. Flock says: The people at the temple were convinced that they were protecting the island from me. It’s kill or be killed and I don’t want to be killed – so it IS possible to kill MIB/Flock?
5. I don’t think Flock has any intention of getting on the plane – that’s just too easy. I think it’s a trick, he has something else up his sleeve. He was testing James to see where is alliance lies. I don’t think Flock REALLY wanted to know what the other Ajirans were up to. I don’t think he’s actually threatened by the other Ajiran’s. He knew Widmore was there. That’s why he was so pleased when James told him the truth. He knew, just like Miles knew in the Sidways world that james was hiding the truth.
6. What was the book that Charlotte touched right before she opened the drawer to look for a t-shirt? It had a bunny on it.
7. Awww, Sawyer finds Kate’s old dress and sees the bear cages. Did I sense a moments of nostalgia?!
8. Like all the other Losties, Sawyer has his moment of reflection in the mirror, but he actually smashes it.
9. Why wasn’t Claire mad at Flock for lying to her about Aaron’s whereabouts? He puts her in time out like he’s her daddy.
10. Funny how Sawyer/zoe and Sawyer/con mans wife were so similar – Sawyer says, “LaFleur” and his back up shows up. Zoe whistles and her back up shows up.

#19. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 3:09 AM

Based on Flocke's comment about his mother..did anybody else get the feeling that he may be Faraday, trapped in that island due to time travel

#20. Posted by: Jag at March 17, 2010 3:09 AM

A few thoughts:

1) Sayid's going to the dark side.

2) Zoe......ummmm, Tina Fey!?!?!??!

3) Miles and Sawyer: Could a Cop Show spin-off be far behind?

4) Book with rabbit was Watership Down.

5)When exactly is the Alt Timeline fork-in-the-road? We learned last week that Ben Linus and dad spent time on the island. But we saw the island submerged at the beginning of the season (looks likeit had been submerged for decades).

5) Next week Richard-centric episode's gonna knockk all our socks off!!!!!!!

Lost still rocks!

#21. Posted by: skybox at March 17, 2010 3:11 AM

Man... I can't imagine how much I'm going to miss you all... (tear, sob)

Mac; I'm sure all of us can't thank you enough for your recaps: always rife with wit and insight. (shits and giggles)

What an Epi!

BunnyLover - thought of you as soon as I saw the cover of the book on Sawyers bureau in the ALT. (Such a cute Bunny Cover, reminded of Beatrix Potter) Didn't catch the title but I'm sure there's something there...)

Now that Flocke has admitted to being Smokey, is he now Slocke?

And WHAT A CHUCK scene when Flocke? Slocke? gives the ole heave-ho to Claire by the nape of her neck and her midrift when he chuck's her off Kate. That was just a really good shot. (IMHO)

Mac? The "Lock Box" on the sub has me Totally! intrigued.

Loved the Sawyer mirror take, he's never looked so "distorted".

Beleive me, that ruddy plane ain't goin nowhere, aside from a Widmore miracle. (But something is up with it. I could only imagine -in my head- when Sawyer saw it, was collecting all the goodies for "trade"...)

#22. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 17, 2010 3:25 AM

Watership Down was the book Sawyer was reading on the beach back in Season 1.

#23. Posted by: IslandPearl at March 17, 2010 3:26 AM

1. Flock says he had a mother just like everyone else. This revelation strengthens the theory that Jacob and MIB are brothers. They had a crazy mom and she did something to set these events into motion. He said that things could have been avoided had things been different. He said that he has problems that he’s still trying to work my way through. Well, seems to me like Jacob was his biggest problem and he IS trying to work through that. Aaron has a crazy mother too, might strengthen some people’s theory that Aaron is Jacob – if MIB and Jacob are indeed brothers or ½ brothers.
2. Was that Little House on the Prairie sawyer was watching? Michael Landen says something about dead people not really being dead…. But I don’t remember the rest of it.
3. How did Widmore know that MIB has taken over Locke’s body? I know he was instrumental in getting the O6 on the Ajira flight but it was Ben and Eloise who hid Locke’s body at the butcher and got him on the flight. You’d think that they wouldn’t share that info. with Widmore since they’re enemies and all. How did Widmore know that MIB was manifesting in Locke’s image?
4. I thought Claire was going to strangle kate during their hug.
5. “We aint taken the plane, Freckles” Awwww, Sawyer called her freckles!

#24. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 3:29 AM

Crapper - We're in for such a whollop(sp?) with Sayid. This dude is seriously not himself.

* That girl Sawyer is in bed with in the begining in the ALT, is she the science geek, con, on the island?

#25. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 17, 2010 3:48 AM

So what do we think is in the locked cupboard on the sub? I am personally hoping for Desmond, mainly due to his general awesomeness, but also because it makes a weird kind of sense.

Des and the island have a certain connection, and Mrs. Hawking herself said the island wasn't done with him. And Widmore got to the island awfully quickly and with seemingly few obstacles.

At first I thought this was because he had the Black Rock ledger in his hot little hands, but maybe it's because he has the island's favourite Scotsman to guide him there. Really don't see the seed to lock Desmond in a cupboard, but Widmore has always danced to his own beat.

Just putting it out there...

#26. Posted by: Jin + Tonic at March 17, 2010 4:20 AM

-BunnyLover

Do you write for the show or something? I looked up the notes on "Watership Down" and these are the first lines I read -

"Watership Down is the tale of a group of rabbits in search of a home. Fiver, a small, young rabbit, has a gift: He can tell when things are going to happen and he can sense whether they will be good or bad. Fiver foresees great danger to the rabbits' home warren. His brother Hazel, who is slightly larger and helps take care of Fiver, takes Fiver to the Chief Rabbit, the Threarah. Fiver tells the Threarah that he foresees great danger, but the Chief Rabbit does not believe him.)...

(courtesty of sparksnotes.com)

I just about busted a bloody gut...

#27. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 17, 2010 4:22 AM

- BunnyLover & et al

Further from "sparksnotes.com"

"The rabbits live happily in their warren and Campion returns to run the Efrafan warren. They decide to build a third warren halfway between the two and fill it with rabbits from each warren. Hazel lives several years, longer than most rabbits live, and he sees the warren prosper and thrive before he dies."

Crapper, how much can we read into this?!?!?

#28. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 17, 2010 4:40 AM

As to exactly when the timeline forks --

I don't think it forks at all. I think the alt timeline is "how things would be if Jacob hadn't manipulated them."

So in that timeline Sawyer didn't get handed a pen, Kate got in trouble for stealing a lunchbox, and so on. Their lives diverge from that point forward.

Crackpot theory #37:
---

Jacob is some kind of a time traveller who's been zipping through time, giving things a push now and then, in order to send various people to the island.

Smokey might be one too.

This season will end with someone (Jack? Ben? Faraday? The Doctor?) defeating Jacob (and possibly Flocke) once and for all. This causes time to "course correct" every moment that was previously manipulated, creating the sideways universe and destroying the 2007 universe.

#29. Posted by: Michael Moncur at March 17, 2010 4:50 AM

Further thoughts on my Jacob-is-a-time-traveller theory:

1. The bomb at the end of last season didn't create the alt timeline. Ben killing Jacob did.

2. As Jag said above, maybe Jacob is a future version of Faraday. Or maybe Smokey is.

3. Jacob and Smokey are THE SAME PERSON. One is the future version of the other. Dialog from the last episode of S5:

Ben: Have you [Jacob and Flocke] met before?

Flocke: In a manner of speaking.

4. If they're not the same person, maybe one of them is Desmond.

#30. Posted by: Michael Moncur at March 17, 2010 5:11 AM

@ et al

I guess we can all speculate on all the rythms of "good and evil" and who is with who...

BUT... (and I know someone mentioned this before, sorry, I forget who it was,)

"WHAT IS THE ISLAND?????"

Who Drives What or What Drives Who?

(does horton hear a who?)

#31. Posted by: tweedle_dee at March 17, 2010 5:28 AM

Great review Mac. What a fun episode, even if it wasn't terribly revealing. Interesting that Liam showed up...are we due for a Charlie episode soon? I'm not holding my breath since he's dead in one time line, but that would be sweet.

#32. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 17, 2010 6:40 AM

Great review Mac. What a fun episode, even if it wasn't terribly revealing. Interesting that Liam showed up...are we due for a Charlie episode soon? I'm not holding my breath since he's dead in one time line, but that would be sweet.

#33. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 17, 2010 6:41 AM

Wow...Kate should be pretty ticked at Zombie Sayid for not coming to her defense during the Claire fight!

#34. Posted by: giggity at March 17, 2010 8:01 AM

I LOVED this epi since I think Josh rocked it. There were a couple of things that bothered me, though:

1. So the room was miked up and Sawyer was having hot sex with a woman while undercover? With the homeboys listening in? How creepy is that?

2. My first though about what was locked on the sub was the "magic box" is back!

3. Flocke is the only one smart enough to out-con Sawyer. I hope our hero doesn't set himself up for a nasty fall. Clearly he was seeing what Sawyer would tell him when he got back.

4. Sawyer once again starts to get his sh!t together and here comes Kate.... yuck.

5. Widmore seemed genuine when he said he didn't kill all of those people. They were pretty ripe, so they had probably been dead a few days. I smell Smoke.

6. Good for Charlotte for closing the door on him. I would have totally caved. Guess that flower only works on Juliet (RIP). :(

7. Who is Miles' girlfriend? Ana Lucia?

More after some coffee. Thanks for all you do, Mac!

#35. Posted by: Other Kate at March 17, 2010 8:06 AM

Gotta love it when Miles said to cop Sawyer, "You want to die alone?" A direct slap at Jack's favorite mantra.

And I'm just wondering if it isn't Aaron or even WAAAAALT in the sub's locked room? At one time, they were both pretty important to the island.
(probably not. I've never been right yet about Lost.)

#36. Posted by: dorothy gale at March 17, 2010 8:06 AM

Miles' girlfriend is Juliet...?

#37. Posted by: Boodle at March 17, 2010 8:10 AM

"I'm sorry, I forgot my manners!" .. then, "take me to your leader"..... good ol' Sawyer. Never lets us down with the quips.

#38. Posted by: sandivon at March 17, 2010 8:14 AM

As to the timeline split or alt timeline: I think Jack's appendix scar was a big clue. His mother said it was removed when he was 8 or 9. So, the alt timeline must have started before that. Can't wait for next week's episode, been wondering about Richard for a long time.

#39. Posted by: Mike at March 17, 2010 8:38 AM

When Zoe first came out from the bushes, I thought she was the going to be the next crazy Rousseau, who was replaced by crazy Claire, to be replaced by crazy Zoe - but WRONG!

Loved this episode!

#40. Posted by: Sayiditisn'tso at March 17, 2010 8:40 AM

Great episode and GRAA Mac!! Thought I was gonna pass out when Flocke started talking about his crazy Momma. This has to be a major clue to his true identity.
And may I just say WOO HOO, a Richard episode...I'm gonna throw a party! Who can come?

#41. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 17, 2010 8:45 AM

Okay - my first thought was that sawyer is/was setting himself up for either way going home.

Maybe he is not sure who he is conning and states many times that he is doing this for himself.

So I can totally see him just sitting on the sidelines while they duke it out.

Also - my first thought on those sonic things was the tracking device that faraday set up when he came to the island not the smoke monster repeller thing.

and i forgot - what happened to faraday anyway???

love the idea of sawyer/ford being a copy - if any of you have seen the wire - probably the greatest show ever on tv - the line btwn cops and criminals is not that great. So really him leaning that way is not a surprise.

Gonna need a bigger boat tho..

CA


#42. Posted by: lostatwork at March 17, 2010 8:56 AM

@42 and i forgot - what happened to faraday anyway???

His own mother, Eloise, shot him dead.

#43. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 9:02 AM

Cooked rabbit seems more like a "Fatal Attraction"...

#44. Posted by: JaSoN at March 17, 2010 9:11 AM

Very nice review Mac. Especially the pic of Squirrel-baby. Suitable for framing.

ANTB?

Can someone verify the brunette in bed w/ Sawyer...sorry...Detective Ford...in the beginning in the same chick Zoe on thebeach? I can't quite convince myself either way.

Sawyer and Freckles sittin' on the beach
Gonna steal the submarine
Fought off Claire
Sayid's bad hair
Then comes Widmore and his time machine.

The lock box? It's chock full of MacCutcheon's.

#45. Posted by: ransonjackson at March 17, 2010 9:18 AM

I'm going to be busy with some music editing today so I thought I would just get ahead a little bit . .

ANTBOTCOTBOS/FDATUTWWD?

Anybody Notice The Bunny On the Cover Of the Book on Sawyer/Ford's Dresser and That It's Title was Watership Down?

AAAAUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

#46. Posted by: davidrh at March 17, 2010 9:20 AM

ransonjackson wins by a nose!

#47. Posted by: davidrh at March 17, 2010 9:22 AM

Ahhh. Sawyer. Yum-O! My fave character from the beginning, btw. Only questino at this point (which someone else already posed too) is:

If Sawyer is a cop, why does he "look the other way" in regards to Kate's escape from the marshal? Because he is smitten? Because he has a "there but for the grace of God go I" moment?

#48. Posted by: GatorGal at March 17, 2010 9:24 AM

@#24 - SKIPPER:

The quote from Michael Landon (aka: Papa on Little House on the Prairie):

"That's what life is all about. Laughing and loving each other. And knowing that people aren't really gone when they die."

hmm....

#49. Posted by: GatorGal at March 17, 2010 9:29 AM

Longest anagram ever award to davidrh!

@Freewill1978:
re:Flocke turning the plane around himself--considering how bad CGI traditionally has been on this show with every underwater shot of the sub (even the periscope shot last week) and the god awful sunken island shot, I truly hope we're not subjected to something so ambitious as the smoke monster moving a plane...


@Skybox
I thought the same thing about a spinoff Sawyer/Miles cop show. It would be a great way to have a spinoff from Lost without having to continue the Lost story line in any way. I would totally watch that.

Speaking of Sawyer: How is he planning on driving a sub? Is that more realistic than hoping to fly that plane?

#50. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 17, 2010 9:32 AM

#48 GatorGal

...and also...Det James Ford did not engage at all over Charlie's "drug" bust and almost overdose. Wouldn't a police officer be summoned to detain him, etc until they landed? Wonder if sideways Sawyer was going to be a cop or was that written/added in after 1st episode was filmed...? Again...posed with if this is production/writing oversight or done on purpose.

#51. Posted by: Boodle at March 17, 2010 9:32 AM

@#50. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes Speaking of Sawyer: How is he planning on driving a sub? Is that more realistic than hoping to fly that plane?

*****

I was thinking that Sawyer would hijack the sub along with it's captain and helmsman. Not only would he not know how to drive the sub, he also wouldn't know where to go, so he needs the team's help. Wonder if he'll drug the passengers ;P

#52. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 9:42 AM

@51Boodle
...and also...Det James Ford did not engage at all over Charlie's "drug" bust and almost overdose. Wouldn't a police officer be summoned to detain him, etc until they landed?

********

By that logic, then the Marshall that was holding Kate in custody should have also stepped in when Charlie over dosed... Maybe it has to do with being off duty or jurisdiction or not being in the best interest of the story line ;P

#53. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 9:46 AM

@ 21 skybox

"2) Zoe......ummmm, Tina Fey!?!?!??!"

YES YES YES I thought it was a guest appearance at first glance. Haha.

#54. Posted by: Christin at March 17, 2010 9:47 AM

#48 GatorGal

...and also...Det James Ford did not engage at all over Charlie's "drug" bust and almost overdose. Wouldn't a police officer be summoned to detain him, etc until they landed?

Let's also remember that Sawyer/Ford was on a "secret" trip to Australia and getting involved would put him "on the record" - obviously something he didn't want anyone to know.

#55. Posted by: davidrh at March 17, 2010 9:51 AM

Wow, an hour is not long enough! and 8 or 9 more episodes is not enough! :)

love your reviews! a few things:

1)I was hoping to see Charlie!
2)Confused about sides (widmore, flocke, etc) thinking that widmore and flocke are on same side and since sawyer is playing both "sides" and will be in trouble! no!
3) when ben summoned smokey to kill the keamy team, whose side was smokey on then?
4) cheesy, but i want everyone to all be friends again! don't like the new sayid and claire! creepy!
5) come on! when will Jin see Sun!?
6) and my continuing rant: I STILL wish Claire could have found Charlie's "greatest hits" note that he wrote before he died!
7) can't wait to learn more about Richard next week!!

#56. Posted by: Aub at March 17, 2010 9:52 AM

#30
When Flocke said he had met Jacob "in a manner of speaking" I took that to mean when he was MIB from waaaaaay back.

#57. Posted by: Rudy at March 17, 2010 9:56 AM

Just to confirm, the woman in bed with Sawyer was not Zoe. It was "Ava," played by Jodi Lyn O'Keefe of "Prison Break" fame (http://j.mp/aiVw85). Zoe is played by Sheila Kelley (http://j.mp/9NwWny).

#58. Posted by: mac at March 17, 2010 9:58 AM

@53 Skipper
By that logic, then the Marshall that was holding Kate in custody should have also stepped in when Charlie over dosed... Maybe it has to do with being off duty or jurisdiction or not being in the best interest of the story line ;P

I thought about the marshall too, but didn't want to be a really big Party Pooper! :o)

#59. Posted by: Boodle at March 17, 2010 9:59 AM

In regards to Alt Sawyer not arresting Kate at the airport or getting involved with Charlie's overdose -- remember, he didn't want anyone to know he went to Australia instead of Palm Springs.

#60. Posted by: mac at March 17, 2010 10:01 AM

Ugh! @davidrh -- you beat me to it!

#61. Posted by: mac at March 17, 2010 10:01 AM

Damn...mispeled my owne nayme...

Momma tol' me there'd be days like this...

2 minutes davidrh...two minutes...

Looked to me like some of Widmore's goons would have a wee spot o' bother getting through the hatch to get into the sub. Those guys come straight off the set of Biggest Loser? At least the freighties LOOKED like mercs. These guys look like they been playin' a little too much D&D in mommy's basement.

So Widmore wipes out a bunch of innocent civilians...Flocky (Fake Locke + Smoky) wipes out a bunch of folks at the temple...I'm starting to think they might be bad guys. But who's badder?

Either that, or they know when they "reset" the clock, all of these horrible acts will have never happened.

#62. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 17, 2010 10:02 AM

Did anyone notice that the bodies of the dead Ajiran folks were positioned in a specific formation...? Zoe claimed she dragged each one up there...out of the sun... Why are they positioned so? Didn't look too carefully...almost looked like the shape of the Dharma logo...

#63. Posted by: Boodle at March 17, 2010 10:13 AM

What was the deal with Claire briefly taking Kate's hand during Locke's reasuring speech to the children? Could this be a similar Jacob-touch connection? Claire also hugged Kate later, but this was after she tried to kill her.

#64. Posted by: BEMH at March 17, 2010 10:13 AM

FIRST!

#65. Posted by: Captain Sandwich at March 17, 2010 10:18 AM

@Captain Sandwich: Well played. (Awesome name, too!)

#66. Posted by: mac at March 17, 2010 10:20 AM

@34: giggity - My thought exactly. Why the heck was Sayid just sitting there like a... zombie... oh... right... Seriously, though, he's completely in a daze. What the heck?

So, apparently, the teams are now divided into three real groups, with stragglers added for effect:
1) The "resolved in a good way individuals" - Jack, Ben, (who else?) who have had some type of resolution to their troubles via their sideways stories
2) The "resolved in a bad way individuals" - Sayid (who else?) who have had their troubles compounded in their sideways stories and despite their best efforts have only reinforced that which is troubling them. That being said, I think Sayid in the sideways world has a chance at resolving towards happiness nontheless.
3) The "unresolved individuals" - Sawyer, Kate, even Claire, people whose sideways stories do not really have a leaning towards one direction or another as of yet, although one could say Sawyer's is leaning towards good resolution.

More soon! (Maybe?)

#67. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 10:23 AM

Sorry, forgot to mention that the "resolved in a good way" people are all together, while the ones who are "unresolved" or "resolved in a bad way" are together on a separate "team". One must believe that, much as in Stephen King's "The Stand", these "teams" will continue to coalesce and lead up to a "final battle". Some people will still switch sides, some will stay but prove crucial to the other side.

#68. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 10:25 AM

GRAA Mac!

Interesting how Sawyer has distilled the con down to its essence...trust or don't trust. no attempt to draw either Flocke or Widmore into a web of deception.

I think Claire has transferred her anger from Kate to Flocke and no longer represents a threat to Kate.
Claire might be crazy (or not) but she isn't stupid. Flocke could have told her from the outset that Kate took Aaron to keep him safe and Kate would be back to rescue Claire and reunite mother & son. But instead Flocke told her Aaron was held in the temple which resulted in Claire acting as a soldier for Flocke. He used her; she knows it.

Still thinking Smokey is imprisoned.

Interesting that Kate did not take Flocke's hand.

I don't think Flocke's statement "and I don't want to be killed" carries any expository weight re: his mortality. He is lying. He isn't trying to avoid death, he is trying to escape.

#69. Posted by: undauntid at March 17, 2010 10:26 AM

Smokey has mommy issues, Sawyer is still chasing Anthony Cooper, Sawyer and Miles' bromance carried over to the sideways world, Charlotte cleans up well, and somebody did something nasty to the remaining Ajira passengers.

Last night's episode was about 10 minutes of plot development stretched out over an entire 60 minute episode.

Somewhere in the official "Lost writer's guide to script pacing" there must be a rule that anytime there is a high quality, revealing episode, it must immediately be followed by a generic placeholder episode where virtually nothing of substance occurs.

If next week's teasers are correct and we finally get the Richard backstory we've been waiting for, then I'm all too ready to put "Re-Con" in the recycle bin and move on to next week.

#70. Posted by: Mizzed at March 17, 2010 10:28 AM

Hey everybody... I've got another theory.

Sticking with the Egyptian theme, Locke might be the God Seth who killed Osiris.

And... wait for it... his mother's name was

NUT!

Get it? His mama was a nut!

Ohw never mind. You people have no sence of humour.

#71. Posted by: SnakeJake at March 17, 2010 10:37 AM

I'm thinking the marshall who was escorting Kate on the plane could not assist with Charlies arrest or detain Charlie because he already had a prisoner he was responsible for.

Flocke answering "have you met jacob?" with, "In a manner of speaking". could be indicative of Jacob and MIB being siblings.

#72. Posted by: undauntid at March 17, 2010 10:49 AM

They don't tell us MIB's name because it is a name we are all familiar with and would give a way too much.

I submit his name is Aaron. Last night where he mentions his mom was crazy 'like Claire' clinched it for me.

#73. Posted by: Steve E at March 17, 2010 10:53 AM

@34. Posted by: giggity
re: Wow...Kate should be pretty ticked at Zombie Sayid for not coming to her defense during the Claire fight!

Totally! She's got a knife itching closer to her neck, and the dude's catatonic. At the very least, Sayid deserved a bitch slap - much like the one Flocke planted on Claire - it snapped her out of her crazy mode!


@67. Posted by: LostedIt

Look at you! Did you skip your exercising this morning! ;)
Good for you to keep up on things, even on the late side.
It's tough, especially if you don't manage to get in on Wed!


re: James Ford, the cop

As has been mentioned, his trip to the land down under was hush hush, so he did not want to break his cover. Regarding Kate, I think we need to keep his personality in mind. As he explained to Charlotte, he made a choice between criminal and cop. As a cop, he is still the same morally ambiguous Sawyer that we have known and loved. He is still on the hunt for Anthony Cooper, and he still wants to kill him (despite the rules of law). In other words, he'll break and uphold the law whenever he sees fit. Now that Kate is in his custody, I expect he will get to know her, and likely once again bend the law to help her.

In terms of weak writing, I thought the hiding of his top secret file on the bottom of the drawer was very contrived and lame.


re: Sub secret chamber

Is it - what is in there, or who is in there? I kept thinking who? Desmond? Walt? Aaron? Eloise? Like Mac, I'm still not sure whose side Widmore is on. This episode was all about cons, and making us think Widmore wants to kill Flocke could be following the same pattern. Widmore was rather amused by how little Ford knows about what is going on.

re: Red in bed

Charlotte was pretty hot! Just sayin'....
Good for her to slam the door on those puppy eyes!!


re: mirrors

Ford angry..... Ford smash mirror!!!!


re: Crazy mama!!!

Interesting! I kept thinking - could Flocke be Aaron? Was this a smokey memory, or a Locke memory? We've seen a few crazy mama's - Rousseau, Locke's mom, possibly Smokey's mom, Claire. Anyone else?

#74. Posted by: shikotee at March 17, 2010 10:54 AM

Tiny observation: I don't think I'd ever seen Kate as distressed/upset/scared as she was on last night's episode. She's usually Miss CalmCoolandCollected. It was nice to see that she IS affected by the goings on around her. Yay for Kate's misery!

#75. Posted by: m-class at March 17, 2010 10:56 AM

Mac hits the nail on the head. Sideways is the world without Jacob's touch.

Free Will vs Destiny

End of the series will be a choice for all, and they will pick the happy non-Jacob world.

Disagree about Sayid in sideways land, Nadia will not be his but Shannon, um where are you?

Will Desmond be the protector of this brave new world?
Will it end with Island refloating to ensure a movie will be in the future?

Now, let's have some secrets next week, Richard, you are up.

#76. Posted by: Stock at March 17, 2010 10:58 AM

@75. Posted by: m-class
re: Kate's misery!

Her breaking down as such is pretty believable. Her primary motivation for returning to the island was to find Claire. She finds her, only to discover that the loss of Aaron has helped make her crazy. Claire then tries to kill her.
If I were Kate, I'd be pretty upset.

What is rather unbelievable is her lack of demanding more answers from Flocke. She just tosses out a one liner about Locke being dead, and doesn't press for more. Really?

#77. Posted by: shikotee at March 17, 2010 11:07 AM

Did anyone notice that this episode was directed by Mario Van Peebles? I thought he was more of a B actor than a director.

#78. Posted by: Doug at March 17, 2010 11:08 AM

@ Doug

I noticed that too. e is a B actor but has directed some respectable stuff. I seem to recall him getting good notices for something a year or two ago called "SuperBadAssssss" or something like that. Think it had something to do with a movie his father was in in the 70's.

#79. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 17, 2010 11:25 AM

Is it over yet? Wake me up when it's done because this crappy season is putting me to sleep. We spent 5 awesome seasons with this mythological theme, weird things going on to end up with half a season of build up to a smack down. Is that really what season six is about? Lame answers to mind boggling questions and a war? For what? Going back over each character episode by episode is keeping this season at a sloooow pace and is boring. So now do we have to endure a Hurley back story, a claire backstory, a richard backstory, a nd then some lame 4 hour battle royal and LOST is done? Come on. Give me a break. I expected more this season than that.

#80. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 17, 2010 11:30 AM

Another vote for a Miles/Sawyer cop buddy show!

After what I thought was a slow start to the season, the show is picking up speed for me. Admittedly Jack and Kate are probably the two most vanilla characters on the show. Sayid, Ben, and Sawyer with the Richard episode we've been dying for? Oh Yeah!

@35/Other Kate: I like Ana Lucia as Miles girlfriend. That would give her a nice cameo.

#81. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 17, 2010 11:40 AM

Little house of the prairie??? Are you kidding me???

And did Sayid toke up on some of that black smoke??? That dude seemed high on something!!

#82. Posted by: Puck at March 17, 2010 11:43 AM

@70 Mizzed

Could not agree more...although this episode was easy to watch (I enjoy the Sawyer centric episodes), it lacked a certain kind of substance that I had hoped every episode was going to contain from here on out. I do like that this ep put some pieces in place re: Widmore/Team Flocke (who's telling the truth, who's not?), but the FS sequence with PoPo Ford was rather unrevealing and vanilla. One item of note...while the ep was Sawyer centric and it was revealed (to most people's surprise) that Sawyer is a cop...i think it's important not to forget that Miles too is a cop in bizzaro world, a stray from his previous occupation of holding séances for considerable sums of cash. A logical question would be, does Miles still possess the ability to listen to the dead?

I still do not fully grasp what exactly has happened to Claire and Sayid...they are "infected" and their bodies have been "claimed" by an evil presence. Is this presence controlled by Flocke...are they now his devoted servants / army of darkness? Does this infection affect everybody the same way...it seems Sayid has become a zombie, while Claire has become a lunatic. Maybe it drives you crazier and crazier the longer it inhabits your body?

#83. Posted by: Artz Vandelay at March 17, 2010 11:44 AM

Good episode, not great, but good. It was a lot of set up for future events.

What I would like to comment on is an exchange my wife and I had when Sawyer took Charlotte home.

Me: Holy CRAP is that girl pasty!!!!!!

Wife: Well, she IS a redhead.

That being said, HAPPY ST. PATRICK"S DAY!!!!

#84. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 17, 2010 11:52 AM

Artz Vandelay--love the name!
While Miles is a cop in bizarro world instead of holding seances for cash, what he really always wanted to be was an architect!

#85. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 17, 2010 11:54 AM

@51Boodle,

sawyer was coming back from Sydney when he was supposed to be in Palm Springs and doesn't want his lie exposed by Charlie incident or by detaining Kate.

#86. Posted by: aj at March 17, 2010 12:00 PM

@73: Steve E - Excellent observation! There's been talk that MIB is Aaron but I've totally been in the dismissive camp on that one, but now MIB has made the comparison. Wouldn't it be ironic that he is Aaron and he was the reason that his own mother is crazy? To be honest, I really don't think it's him, but it is an intriguing development that a link has been established.

@74: shikotee - No exercise this morning ;) I do agree the fact that the folder was in his drawer and she just happened to go to the wrong drawer was a bit contrived but it's conceivable. I agree Charlotte will give Alex a run for the money on the hotness scale.


#87. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 12:02 PM

Flocke said Claire needed someone to hate as motivation to keep her going ... is his hatred of Jacob what has been sustaining him? Someone else, Mommy maybe?

If MIB does turn out to be Aaron, then one might think he took real perverse pleasure in slapping his crazy momma (who ruined his little 'ol smoky life!) ... also, in a manner of speaking, it could be said that those in the temple *had* been holding Aaron in that case, as they (apparently) had MIB/Smokey trapped at some point, right? So him telling Claire that was maybe a quibble, rather than an outright lie ... if MIB=Aaron, of course.

Finally, if that is true, then who "equals" Jacob among those we know? Anyone? Are the bodies we have seen for Jacob and MIB just Locke-type vessels they happened to pick up alonf the way? What is their *true* form?

#88. Posted by: ealgumby at March 17, 2010 12:14 PM

Why couldn't they get in the hatch?

Locke's been changed...

#89. Posted by: Puck at March 17, 2010 12:14 PM

i think miles' girlfriend will be shannon......

mario van peebles, albeit a B actor has been directing for a number of years and is a pretty good one. NEW JACK CITY anyone?

@puck...."toke on the black smoke"..funny!!!!

soooooooooooo looking forward to next week's epi as i am sure everyone else is and has been since season two i believe. will we also find out what brand of eyeliner he uses as well? :-)

#90. Posted by: tiffani at March 17, 2010 12:16 PM

Hey PTB, we *need* the key to Un-Locke!

Puck you!

#91. Posted by: ealgumby at March 17, 2010 12:21 PM

It looked to me like Charlotte was looking for something. It's doubtful she was looking for Sawyer's woefully inadequate salute to scrap-booking, but she was digging around in there pretty good.

If she just wanted a t-shirt to cover up her Irish pasty white skin she just woulda grabbed one right off the top.

It's just common sense to never go rooting around in a guy's poopoo undies and stinky socks drawer.

Could it be that Miles - or his dad good ol' Doc Chang - was never touched by Jacob and therefore never became the corpse whisperer?

#92. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 17, 2010 12:22 PM

(my apologies ... best I could think of on the spot ... ;) )

#93. Posted by: ealgumby at March 17, 2010 12:22 PM

did Fonzie jump the shark?

#94. Posted by: d at March 17, 2010 12:27 PM

@84: LOST_MY_HEAD - Hah! Thought the same thing. That was one white back!

@92: ransomjackson - I agree, it looked like she was going way beyond casual happenstance. I totally thought she was going to turn out to be a private investigator or something the way she was rummaging through the drawer with such purpose.

For everyone that didn't see my posts yesterday, go back to last week's conversation and scroll down to near the bottom. I posited a few thoughts about Jacob/MIB that would do well for further discussion.

#95. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 12:38 PM

re: i♥jamesfordxx
--------------
why did the gender-confused chicken cross the road?
--------------
to get to the hotel to have rough sex with undercover cop james "the flower" ford.... caught in his fraud sting.... arrested and verbally abused by miles "cagney&lacey" straume.... then cavity searched by ana "former-sapho" lucia cortez.

#96. Posted by: i♥jamesfordxx at March 17, 2010 12:43 PM

Crispy Seaplanes - Defintely! Or an importer/exporter...although he probably would consider dropping the exporting and focusing on the importing.

#97. Posted by: Artz Vandelay at March 17, 2010 12:45 PM

#86. Posted by: aj

AAAAAUUUGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


:-)

#98. Posted by: davidrh at March 17, 2010 1:12 PM

re: Crazy mamas

Reminded me that I have not watched Psycho (the original - how could anyone approve a remake?) for quite some time.

I wonder - Was smokey's mama a-la Mama Bates calibre? Looking at koo-koo Claire and "the greatest prop in television history", reminded me of what Norman kept in the rocking chair! Creepy!

"Norman"!!!!

#99. Posted by: shikotee at March 17, 2010 1:14 PM

Why the drawn out plan to leave the Island. If Flocke is not scared of water why did he not just kill everyone on Hydra Island before he even left there. Grab Lapidus in a Smokey grip to fly the plane back home. Hey Presto! Off the Island fun!

#100. Posted by: Kris at March 17, 2010 1:24 PM

@92 and 95: I agree that Charlotte was completely looking for something and I think she found it when she found the "scrapbook." Since Miles set the date up, he in on it also? Could they be doing recon for Anthony Cooper?

#101. Posted by: srharmon at March 17, 2010 1:39 PM

#36. Posted by: dorothy gale
And I'm just wondering if it isn't Aaron or even WAAAAALT in the sub's locked room?

This is interesting. Who was Aaron's daddy? He was an artist and his name was Tom I think. He had paintings in the apt that he shared with Claire and they later turn up in Widmore's house in a later epi. Could he be related to Widmore?

But I think it would be more logical to find Little Charlie in the locked room on the sub. Desmond, last time we saw him, said he was done with the island. So If Widmore and Hawking need him to return (or God help us all!!!!), they kidnap Charlie and get Desmond to follow them. Why would Desmond go back to the island on his own?


#65. Posted by: Captain Sandwich
FIRST!
LOL!

#71. Posted by: SnakeJake
Get it? His mama was a nut!
Ohw never mind. You people have no sence of humour.
Yes we do. I thought it was funny.

#102. Posted by: berkyo at March 17, 2010 1:43 PM

@100. Posted by: Kris

At that juncture, you might recall that Jacob was still "alive". I would assume that the killing Jacob objective had to be achieved before anything else.

With that said - can we be certain that Flocke didn't kill the Arija passengers? Widmore claims it wasn't his work. Who did it, and more importantly, why do it?

Which reminds me....

Going back to Hydra island by canoe reminded me that we never did find out who was shooting at Sawyer/Juliet when they were in the canoes and skipping through time in S5. Didn't they shoot back and hit someone? Does anyone get the feeling we are soon going to see this play out (from the perspective of the other canoe), with very ironic and tragic results?

#103. Posted by: shikotee at March 17, 2010 1:45 PM

Why don't people just take turns at the donkey wheel and leave? They don't care where the island is? Are Ben and Sflocke the only ones who know about it?

And I agree, why doesn't Sflocke just wipe everyone out and leave. Does he need help? Does he need all those people? Why is he dragging them around? Maybe hostages?

And didn't the plane's front windows break? Can't fly that plane.

#104. Posted by: berkyo at March 17, 2010 1:48 PM

104. Posted by: berkyo
Why don't people just take turns at the donkey wheel and leave? They don't care where the island is? Are Ben and Sflocke the only ones who know about it?

@@@@@@

Not only that but Ben even said to Miles, I can get us off this island and get you the money - i have a network of resources, etc.

Ben was traveling off island with all those passports at some point. And Widmore traveled off island enough to have time to father a child.

#105. Posted by: Skipper at March 17, 2010 2:04 PM

berkyo--
They'll just throw some Dharma duck tape (now one thousand and two uses!) over them windows to make the plane perfectly believable (in the Lost universe anyway) as flightworthy!

#106. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 17, 2010 2:07 PM

My favorite part was the "sad" sunflower and the six pack. LMAO What class!
Does anyone else think Flocke's mom could be Eloise Hawking? Faraday's brother?
What about Penny?
Or if we keep it in the Egyptian theme maybe it was Cleopatra! :)

#107. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 17, 2010 2:09 PM

First off, shout out to TPTB for giving so much screen time to Sawyer's pecs. Bless you. I've been going through some withdrawals. Sorry, guys, that Kate and Claire (who's crazy but still hot, acc. to Miles) didn't fall into a mud puddle.

Best scene is when Det. Ford leaves the flower for Charlotte but takes back the 6-pack. I can hear him muttering, "Ain't leavin' that woman my beer. I ain't that sorry!"

Last random thought- I'm wondering if Flocke's mama wouldn't be Eve. I don't know if her bones look crazier than Adam's necessarily, but it's just a thread to unravel. Any other takers on that one?

#108. Posted by: lardiea at March 17, 2010 2:18 PM

pasty white skin be damned -- she needs to have that mole looked at.

Have you driven a Ford lately?

Charlotte: "Why yes. I took a ride on one yesterday."

#109. Posted by: LadaneThom at March 17, 2010 2:36 PM

I thought the episode was a thud. I completely tune out the sideways stuff now because of the forced "connections."

I did not buy into Sawyer's "triple cross." First, Flocke already knew what was going on at Hydra (he was heading his recruits there). The Ajira victims appeared to be mowed down like the Temple people. Second, Widmore was too quick to "deal" with Sawyer (besides if both know he is Smokey, no one said they know how or if Smokey can be killed). Third, Flocke expected Sawyer to lie to him, and when he did not, Smokey's plan self-executed. Fourth, when Sawyer told Kate he is going after the sub, he was in essence telling Smokey because after Claire's "hug" I believe Kate is now "infected"= partially under Smokey's control.

History will repeat itself. If Smokey is channeling Locke's memories, Flocke will blow up the sub: no one is leaving the island, including Flocke. Flocke just wants "loyal" worshippers.

#110. Posted by: welh at March 17, 2010 2:42 PM

I agree with those that think Charlotte was definitely looking for something while getting the shirt. She even had this smile and look of satisfaction when she found the folder. Maybe that look was just Sawyer's doing!

#111. Posted by: irishfan at March 17, 2010 2:42 PM

Why did Miles really hook Sawyer up with Charlotte? She and Miles are in-cahoots to -
1) Take Sawyer's ?
2) Reveal Sawyer's ?
3) Determine Sawyer's ?
4) Coerce Sawyer to ?
5) Prevent Sawyer from ?

#112. Posted by: Hellooooo Newman at March 17, 2010 2:56 PM

@111. irishfan (happy day to you): That was really frustrating at two points in the episode, where possibly bad acting might have gotten in the way of understanding what was going on:

1) Charlotte definitely looked like she was hunting for something defininte, but maybe it was just bad acting of casually snooping. I mean, how would she/Miles know to look in that one drawer, that Sawyer happened to point her to.

2) Zoe was utterly *un*convincing. Sawyer said, "You're good, but you're not that good" - but she was nowhere near good.

#113. Posted by: LockeBox at March 17, 2010 3:00 PM

Doc Jensen's review of last night's ep is up:

http://tinyurl.com/yd6nu9p

#114. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 3:02 PM

Thoughts on this episode.

Is there anything significant about holding hands? Claire holds Kate's hand, Flocke offers his hand to Kate, in next week's preview we see Jack offer his hand to Sun and she takes it. Same as Jacob touching his candidates?

When Flocke sent Sawyer to the Hydra Island the instructions were same as/similar to those that Ben gave to Ethan and Juliet's boyfriend when 815 crashed.

Flocke seems to be getting "softer" as the episodes progress. When he was talking with Kate about Claire needing someone to hate I wondered if Flocke might be missing Jacob - he did say how much he hated Jacob in a past epi.

#115. Posted by: DHall at March 17, 2010 3:05 PM

@110: welh - The implication to date is that getting "infected" is done by dying. ie: Sayid died in the pool and the discussion has long been that Claire actually died in the cabin explosion. So, both of them are "infected", or perhaps "inhabited" because their bodies were available.

#116. Posted by: LostedIt at March 17, 2010 3:06 PM

#113 LockeBox

Thanks- and happy St. Paddy's Day to all my fellow Irishmen and Irishwomen in Lost land!

I thought that Miles was pressing Sawyer quite a bit about his trip. I get that they are partners but are Sawyer's vacation plans really of that much concern to him? I am not convinced that there isn't something going on there. Pardon the double negative. And I agree that Zoe was awful!

#117. Posted by: irishfan at March 17, 2010 3:31 PM

@116/LostedIt:

I agree.

I don't think Kate got out of the temple pit alive. I think the 180 degree out of character Claire hug was to accelerate the infection in Kate.

#118. Posted by: welh at March 17, 2010 3:32 PM

Forgive me if this was mentioned before but

I picture at the end we have the 2 "sides" squaring off (for war?) and all of our losties looking across at each other and the 2 "sides" say..."pick which side you're on."
I think there will be a lot of looking at each other, looking around and everyone trying to figure out the "good" side and the "evil" side. Hey...maybe all the losties will make their own "side" and get the heck out of there!

#119. Posted by: jms at March 17, 2010 3:39 PM

I know crazy things happen on Lost, but why do people think MIB is Aaron? Just because he reference a crazy mother like Claire. How would any of that make sense for him to be Aaron? Just saying.

#120. Posted by: LostIsFound at March 17, 2010 3:48 PM

Ohhhhh ... now I get it! The island is set-up and guarded to keep Flocke/Smokey ON the island, and not to create havoc on the rest of the planet. The whole thing is an elaborate prison system for the safety if the world. Got it. I think?

#121. Posted by: Joss at March 17, 2010 4:01 PM

When Sawyer was standing outside the door with the 6pack of beer, it reminded me of JIm Carey's friend in the movie Truman Show who use to come over all the time with a 6 pack.

#122. Posted by: LostISFound at March 17, 2010 4:03 PM

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER!!!!!!!!


SPOILER COMING!!

The trailer for next week is exciting! Especially when Richard says that everything around them on the Island, is not what they think it is. Also, there is an extended version of Jacob's scene with Ilana in the hospital, where he asks her to protect the remaining six candidates for him. This should easily be the best epi this season, maybe evah! I'm glad that the Richard epi wasn't saved till almost the very end. There is a lot to be revealed yet, but then again, you can reveal a lot in 8 hours or so.


END OF SPOILER!!


END OF SPOILER!!

#123. Posted by: Mischa at March 17, 2010 4:13 PM

it sure would be good to see mr eko in one of the sideway flashes..... ;)

#124. Posted by: tiffani at March 17, 2010 4:15 PM

Maybe Charlotte was looking for chocolate (because she wasn't allowed to have any before dinner).

Hmmmm, that got me thinking -- good day for a limerick:

There once was a chocolate-loving tart
Who on Lost had a limited part
If she mixed in some nuts
And married Leslie, that putz
We could call her Reese's of Arzt

#125. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 17, 2010 4:18 PM

@74 shikotee..."In terms of weak writing, I thought the hiding of his top secret file on the bottom of the drawer was very contrived and lame."

But as a single guy who lives alone, who would you have to hide things from?

@88 ealgumby

I can't wrap my mind around how MIB could possibly be Aaron. Claire gave birth to him in 2004. Am I missing something really stinking obvious? Help!

@92 ransomjackson..."It's just common sense to never go rooting around in a guy's poopoo undies and stinky socks drawer."

I hope if they are back in the drawer they are no longer "poopoo." As stated above, though, he is single. YUCK, TMI.

@102 beryko..."So If Widmore and Hawking need him to return (or God help us all!!!!), they kidnap Charlie and get Desmond to follow them. Why would Desmond go back to the island on his own?"

Love that idea! How about little Charlie AND Penny. Even better, right brutha?

@108..."First off, shout out to TPTB for giving so much screen time to Sawyer's pecs."

Amen! Man he's a fine specimen. Give this guy another show, quickly!!

I know that there are several saying negative things about this episode, but I really liked it. We got an awful lot of information about Flocke state or shown to us in his interaction with others.

1. His leadership role with the Templetons. Remind anyone of Jack with the Losties?

2. His directness (could be false) with Sawyer. Said he is Smokey!

3. His treatment/control of Claire.

4. His answers (again not great and could be lies) to Kate. More info about his past!

People say the pacing is slow but I don't see it. IMO, we are getting tons of answers. We may be disgruntled 'cause they aren't the answers the think they should be, but we're getting them.

Almost afraid to press "post." The counts at 119 right now.

#126. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 17, 2010 4:32 PM

@119 JMS I picture at the end we have the 2 "sides" squaring off (for war?) and all of our losties looking across at each other and the 2 "sides" say..."pick which side you're on."

Maybe they'll just have a big game of Red Rover.

#127. Posted by: Amyr at March 17, 2010 4:45 PM

@#127 Amyr
Maybe they'll just have a big game of Red Rover.

LOL!!

@102 Charlie in the locker.

Yes! Remember little Charlie was kidnapped a while back.

#128. Posted by: jms at March 17, 2010 5:04 PM

I need confirmation please.
It looked to me like there is a slightly lower set of dresser drawers to the right(Sawyer said top right) of the one Charlotte is digging thru. And I didn't see ANY t-shirts in the one she was rooting thru.

#129. Posted by: mtncbn at March 17, 2010 5:16 PM

#129. mtncbn: Where's the T-shirt?

I agree...I didn't see any T-shirts in the top right-hand drawer either. And just out of curiosity, who keeps their T-shirts in the uppermost drawer? That seems to me to be the logical place for underwear & socks, poo-poo or otherwise. (Perhaps Sawyer needs to switch detergents...)

#130. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 17, 2010 5:20 PM

I know it has been mentioned above somewhere, but I'm bringing it up again. It seems to me that of all the "mirror" sightings, Sawyer was the only one to break his image. Someone smarter than me needs to come up with a theory as to what that could mean. Maybe nothing, but I think it was a foreshadowing of something.

#131. Posted by: Amyr at March 17, 2010 5:28 PM

Clearly Charlotte found what she was looking for in Det. Ford's drawers! ;)

Remember when we saw Claire in the cabin with Christian shortly after she disappeared...she appeared to be drugged, very spacey. I wonder if Sayid was drugged?

I don't think Claire is crazy and I don't think Sayid is lost to us. It doesn't make sense if this is about free will or destiny. Maybe Sayid did not intervene with Claire & Kate because he knew Flocke would. I'm still inclined to think Sayid is keeping his enemy close.

#132. Posted by: undauntid at March 17, 2010 6:32 PM

#103. Posted by: shikotee
Going back to Hydra island by canoe reminded me that we never did find out who was shooting at Sawyer/Juliet when they were in the canoes and skipping through time in S5. Didn't they shoot back and hit someone? Does anyone get the feeling we are soon going to see this play out (from the perspective of the other canoe), with very ironic and tragic results?

I was thinking about this driving home tonight. I do not rememebr if we ever saw that.

#109. Posted by: LadaneThomHave you driven a Ford lately?
Charlotte: "Why yes. I took a ride on one yesterday."

LOL

#111. Posted by: irishfan
I agree with those that think Charlotte was definitely looking for something while getting the shirt. She even had this smile and look of satisfaction when she found the folder. Maybe that look was just Sawyer's doing!

I said the same thing to my husband.That she was rooting - not necessarily satisfied.

#112. Posted by: Hellooooo Newman
Could be.....

#128. Posted by: jms
Yes! Remember little Charlie was kidnapped a while back.
I do not remember that -refresh my memory please.

#133. Posted by: berkyo at March 17, 2010 6:43 PM

@114/LostedIt: "Doc Jensen's review of last night's ep is up".

Well, I'll tip my hat to the Doc that he managed to wring 8 pages of analysis out of last night's episode.

While I get at least 1 good insight each week from his column, that nugget demands wading through pages of never ending obscure references. I suspect he invests more time in making these literary and cultural connections than the Lost writers do themselves when actually writing the script.

Jensen does have some interesting thoughts about Smokey Flocke and his psychology, comparing him to a grail knight and Jacob to the Fisher King.

But the more I see of Flocke, the more unsure he seems- almost childish or immature. Anyone else getting this vibe?

The good Mr. Jensen supposes that Smokey may be Faraday reincarnated, which I guess is as plausible as Aaron or any other more modern candidate.

But what do we make of the Egyptian and Greek motifs throughout the ancient island structures? While time frames on the island may be slippery at best, do we really believe that Aaron or Faraday or any other current character really went back in time 3000 years to become Jacob or Smokey, just waiting for the day when Oceanic would crash?

When Smokey Flocke spoke of his mother, I had a simpler thought- what if those memories aren't Smokey's at all, but John Locke's, who certainly had his share of tortured childhood memories and a crazy mother?

Smokey has scanned other's memories before, and has used them to engage in emotional manipulation while "dressed" up as somebody else- Yemi to Eko, Christian to Jack, Alex to Ben.

Why couldn't he be doing that again- utilizing Locke's memories to suggest that he is human and has a past, when the reality may be that he has never been human and is trying now to "flocke" his way through the part?

#134. Posted by: Mizzed at March 17, 2010 6:48 PM

Regarding Sawyer on the plane with Charlie, and then at the airport in the elevator with Kate letting her go.

I took this as being either 'out of jurisdiction' or 'not my problem'.

The onboard airline security would handle Charlie. At the police station, Liam asking about his druggie brother would fall to narcotics division rather than Sawyer's division (whatever it is).

Kate at the airport is 'not his problem' either, but as a cop, he probably should/would have detained her. Yet, since he was returning from Australia following a lead on Cooper perhaps he was just too tired to give a damn. It only became relevant to him when Kate crashed into his car.

Flocke and Kate's conversation on the beach was intriguing to me. Does anyone know if biblical Rebecca went crazy? It lends to speculation that MiB is Easu. Easu's life certainly could have been very different had baby Jacob not grabbed his ankle and forced his way out first.


Plus, some carry over from last week:
When Ben stabbed/killed Jacob, I don't recall seeing blood on the blade in much the same way that there was no blood on the blade Sayid rammed into Flocke's chest. There was no blood because they have no blood. Both Jacob and MiB are spirits that manifest as humans from time to time. (Miles's line about Ben standing over Jacob's body with a bloody dagger was more figurative, parroting Ben's line about his seeing Sayid that way with regard to Dogen and Lennon.)

Smokey takes the form of Flocke (or Alex or Yemi, etc.) simply because it is easier for humans to comprehend that they are having a conversation with another human rather than a pillar of ash/smoke.

Can you imagine how different the scene on the beach (where we are first introduced to Jacob and MiB) would be if instead of two men talking, we saw a pillar of white smoke talking to a pillar of black smoke? (I think Locke referred to the first smoky he saw as white and beautiful. The second one he saw was the black smoke that tried to pull him into a hole in the ground.)

I don't know when Ilana became the arbiter of truth on the show. Her assertions are accepted as "fact" based on what, exactly?

Why is it that we simply believe her at face value?

I believe that Ilana is flat out wrong in her assessment that MiB is now trapped in Locke's body. It is obvious that he is not. Smokey went all Wrath of G-d on the Templetons.

She tells Bram that Lapidus could be a "candidate". IMHO, I think this is simply because she didn't want Bram to kill him.

We do know that Jacob appeared to her in a hospital where she was all bandaged up. She was a bounty hunter who captured Sayid and got him onto the Ajira plane. She claims to be the "protector" of the candidates. (That is actually a claim I tend to believe.)

#135. Posted by: Gumbo at March 17, 2010 6:49 PM

I think we (& the lostees) tend to believe Ilana because 1.she showed up with Locke's body and 2. the whole "what lies in the shadow..." exchange.

I don't recall Ilana saying MIB is trapped in Locke's image. My sense of it was that MIB cannot switch into someone else's image. But that doesn't mean he is unable to manifest as smokey.

#136. Posted by: undauntid at March 17, 2010 7:46 PM

@ 27 - tweedle_dee

Watership Down has always been a favorite book of mine, and I posted a theory WAY LONG AGO that the story line was *curiously* familiar. I even had two bunnies named Hazel and Fiver (and one named Oreo). They've since passed, but who knows... mawaahhhaaa ha ha ha haaaa...

#137. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 17, 2010 7:57 PM

Miles & Sawyer's cop show should be called...

wait for it....

Hawaii Five-0!!!

Now that would be a remake worth doing...and they're already all set up in Hawaii...just saying...

#138. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at March 17, 2010 8:17 PM

135 Gumbo, I think there was blood when Ben killed Jacob because I seem to remember Flocke wiping it on a corner of the tapestry or rug.

#139. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 17, 2010 8:22 PM

Haven't read through all the posts yet (I know bad me...but come on 137 posts in a day....)

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the fact that in the las episode, Flocke told Bev that after shooting Ilana, he should join them on Hydra Island.

I'm going to go back and watch th epi but if Flocke knew Widmore is there, he was sending Ben straight into a trap...

TTMYGH
(Things That Make You Go Hummmm...)

#140. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at March 17, 2010 8:22 PM

132 Undaunted, I like the connection you're making to how Claire was at first "infection" and how Sayid is now. You are reminding me that in the cabin she was wildly mellow! That is a lot like Sayid is now. If Kate starts getting mellow, I'll assume she is infected too.

Unfortunately, I don't think Sayid is faking anything in an effort to keep his enemies close - He didn't even flinch when Kate was nearly killed by Claire. I'm afraid my "lost blog name" is turning out to be rather prophetic.

#141. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 17, 2010 8:29 PM

#134. Mizzed: MIB's or Locke's memories?

Um, yes. See Post #18.

#135. Gumbo: A bunch of stuff:

Rebecca, Esau, & Jacob: As far as I know, Rebecca did not go crazy. And while Jacob did grab Esau's heel, he was still the second-born, not the first.

Ben's stabbing of Jacob: There was definitely blood (gee, sounds like a movie title... ; > ). I believe Sayidisn'tso is correct in that the knife was wiped on a corner of the tapestry.

Lapidus being a candidate: This was my bad from last week...I misread what Lostpedia said. Bram asked Ilana why they were hauling Lapidus from Hydra Island to the main island & if he was a candidate. Ilana didn't answer Bram's question, saying only that Frank was waking up.

#140. Prosecutor67: FLocke sending Ben to Hydra Island:

Good point...it's hard to say which way that's going to play out. Did FLocke have no intention of going to Hydra Island & thus, as you suggested, planned to send Ben there into the arms of Widmore? Or was FLocke planning to go to Hydra & wanted Ben on his team? Or did FLocke want Ben on Hydra Island as part of his team, but if Ben turned on FLocke Widmore would be conveniently there to capture Ben?

Just randomly...I was looking through the new Coldwater Creek (women's clothing) catalog that arrived today. There's a dress in the catalog that's practically a copy of Kate's bear cage dress. I did not add it to my wish list. ; )

#142. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 17, 2010 8:49 PM

Sawyer was looking mighty fine last night. Thank goodness they hacked off the '70s hair - I like the shorter version. I wouldn't have the willpower to close the door on him! Bow-chicka-bow... sorry :)

I wish his Alt-world hookup had been Ana Lucia instead of Charlotte. They, at least, had some history and chemistry.

My vote for Miles' girlfriend: Naomi.

The Alt-world stories seem too contrived or simplistic or something. Sawyer’s a cop and his cop-buddy-partner is Miles and he gets set up on a date and his date finds a folder with his secret past in his sock drawer and he gets mad, but then he reveals his past to his cop-buddy-partner but meanwhile they get side-swiped by a car being driven by a hot fugitive love interest... I feel like I’m watching the equivalent of Expose. Which leads me to believe the Alt-timeline is not where the show will end up (as I was kind of thinking originally). It’s somebody’s contrived version of what might be (MIB or Jacob), maybe? Or else the Lost writers are just really throwing softballs in the Alt-timeline to keep the story moving.

Add me to the list of people who thought, "Hey, that chick looks like Tina Fey!"

Agree about Flocke maybe channeling some real Locke memories of his crazy mom. I'm sure it's not that simple, but I don't think Flocke is Aaron, either.

MVP also directed a previous ep this season. I remember seeing his name on the credits.

Berkyo, they should totally all get in line at the Frozen Donkey Wheel! Too funny!

Call me dense, but I just noticed last night that the hole in Flocke’s t-shirt from Sayid stabbing him is in the same place as where Ben shot Locke, right? Or wrong?

What's behind the locked door on the sub? I don't think it's a person, but probably the equivalent of Flocke kryptonite... what has the power to kill or contain a Smoke Monster/MIB?

Biggest bust so far this season: Sun and Jin. Has either done anything interesting yet? I’m sure they’ll have a very special episode sometime soon, but sheesh, do they have to make alternating and completely irrelevant appearances every week? They are my favorite couple story (even more than Des and Penny), but their characters have been totally wasted so far. They’re approaching Nikki/Paulo “reactionary bystander” status. That being said, Jin looked pretty dazed when Sawyer woke him at Camp Crazy. Has he been claimed/infected by MIB? Will it be revealed that Sun and Widmore made other plans together besides killing Benjamin Linus?

Can’t wait to see the origins of Richard Alpert and the Black Rock next week! Maybe our first flashback in S6? (Maybe he's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline!)

#143. Posted by: Clementine at March 17, 2010 9:11 PM

sawyer thinks his con man skills are fantastic,
MIB knows sawyer will double cross him,
widmore knows too,
sawyer is the one being played but doesn't know it yet!

#144. Posted by: san at March 17, 2010 9:15 PM

142. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought

"Just randomly...I was looking through the new Coldwater Creek (women's clothing) catalog that arrived today. There's a dress in the catalog that's practically a copy of Kate's bear cage dress. I did not add it to my wish list. ; )"

Wow-small world. Coldwater Creek is a local company here in town(of 5,000).

#145. Posted by: mtncbn at March 17, 2010 9:19 PM

#145. mtncbn: CC being local:

I do like a lot of their clothes & have been buying from them for years...the Rochester area got a CC store a few years ago when one of the local malls added a swanky new wing. I need more $$ to shop there often, though. Hey...maybe I should swipe a few of those diamonds... ; >

#146. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 17, 2010 9:30 PM

Alais:

Eastview's too rich for my blood as well!

#147. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 17, 2010 10:03 PM

I remember having to read "Watership Down" in middle school...

#148. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 17, 2010 10:22 PM

Is anyone else a Kate & Allie fan? Was that young Chip (Frederick Koehler) leading the Widmorian SWAT team out of the bushes?

#149. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 17, 2010 10:33 PM

charlotte and the drawer and the theory she was looking for something other thana tshirt...did Ford say top right drawer and she was looking in the top left?
I like the talk of a possible Miles/Charlotte connection going against Ford. Miles was rather insistent on that date.

#150. Posted by: 74 aka Steve at March 17, 2010 10:48 PM

@149 - fenwayben, re: Kate and Allie

My wife got so excited when she put that guy as the kid on Kate and Allie! Too funny!

#151. Posted by: 74 aka Steve at March 17, 2010 10:53 PM

Just got a chance to watch the episode. Great fun and GRAA Mac!

I just browsed through the comments (150 already), but I just quickly wanted to comment on shikotee's comment @103:

"Going back to Hydra island by canoe reminded me that we never did find out who was shooting at Sawyer/Juliet when they were in the canoes and skipping through time in S5. Didn't they shoot back and hit someone? Does anyone get the feeling we are soon going to see this play out (from the perspective of the other canoe), with very ironic and tragic results?"

I was thinking the exact same thing and couldn't remember either if we had seen this. I thought not, but then since it hasn't come up in recent weeks among the "open questions", I started doubting. Some Lostpedia search revealed that we haven't seen the resolution to this yet (the scene was in last year's "The Little Prince").

#152. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 17, 2010 11:16 PM

And the luck of the Irish be with ye'all as this St. Paddy's day draws to a close.

#153. Posted by: Cecil O'Rose at March 18, 2010 12:01 AM

Something that no one seems to have mentioned yet: Are we to believe that ALT Anthony Cooper is ALT Locke's father? If so, is he really the con man ALT Ford is after or is Ford being misled? And if Cooper is the con man, did he better his life and not con Locke? Or did Locke refer to a step dad instead of his biological father back when making the wedding plans with Helen?

As some people noted in the comments back at the ALT Locke episode, I wouldn't be surprised if the ALT story lines will come together at the Locke-Helen wedding.

#154. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 18, 2010 12:04 AM

@128, jms: "Yes! Remember little Charlie was kidnapped a while back."

Was he? Which episode was that? I remember he was a kid, and probably did a lot of napping.

#155. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 18, 2010 12:31 AM

@128, jms: "Yes! Remember little Charlie was kidnapped a while back."

&&&&&&&

Are you talking about when Des went to the hospital after being shot by ben and Eloise came to see Penny at the Hospital? Eliose apologized to Penny for everything that's been going on, then the nurse called Penny in to see Des. And the nurse offered to watch Charlie so that Penny could be alone with Des. I think that in the chat board we all speculated that "oh no, Charlie is gonna get kidnapped b/c he was left alone with Eloise near by" ...but to my recollection, it didn't actually happen - well, not on screen anyways.

#156. Posted by: Skipper at March 18, 2010 12:47 AM

Hm... Sawyer asks Kate - what's for dinner? - "Rabbit" she says...

Alt-reality, Sawyer-cop is reading Watership Down (synopsis: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/watership/summary.html) - a story about several cute fluffy bunnies who leave their warren because one of them senses something disastrous to come, which later turns out to be a poisoning (dharma initiative?) They encounter "Other" bunnies, more or less cute, with allegiances to different bunny leaders. Big fight at the end.

A deep and meaningful analogy, or a cheeky and gratuitous Lost-ism? And what's the difference, as long as we like it?

#157. Posted by: lahal at March 18, 2010 12:58 AM

@129, mtncbn: "It looked to me like there is a slightly lower set of dresser drawers to the right(Sawyer said top right) of the one Charlotte is digging thru. And I didn't see ANY t-shirts in the one she was rooting thru."

ANNAT?: Anyone Not Notice Any T-shirts?


@131, Amyr: "I know it has been mentioned above somewhere, but I'm bringing it up again. It seems to me that of all the "mirror" sightings, Sawyer was the only one to break his image. Someone smarter than me needs to come up with a theory as to what that could mean. Maybe nothing, but I think it was a foreshadowing of something."

I seem to remember from back in literature class that mirrors indicate death. So perhaps Sawyer is the only one who will defy death and survive. More likely though, I am way off.


@134, Mizzed: "Why couldn't he be doing that again- utilizing Locke's memories to suggest that he is human and has a past, when the reality may be that he has never been human and is trying now to "flocke" his way through the part?"

If he's been living with other people's memories all the time, he might even believe that he is/was human? And if you're one of those people that say that a person is nothing but his/her memories you might even agree with Flocke on that.


@135, Gumbo: "Flocke and Kate's conversation on the beach was intriguing to me. Does anyone know if biblical Rebecca went crazy? It lends to speculation that MiB is Easu. Easu's life certainly could have been very different had baby Jacob not grabbed his ankle and forced his way out first."

I don't think Lost is going the "characters are really characters from another mythology" way. That doesn't seem to be the style of the show. They might borrow characteristics from other characters, stories, and mythologies, but in the end these characters are just who they are: Jacob and MIB. If it is ever revealed that these characters are characters we know, I think they will turn out to be characters we know from Lost, not from Egyptian, Greek, or Jewish mythology.


@138, Prosecutor6: "Miles & Sawyer's cop show should be called... wait for it.... Hawaii Five-0!!!"

Not CSI: The Island?

@143, Clementine: "Call me dense, but I just noticed last night that the hole in Flocke’s t-shirt from Sayid stabbing him is in the same place as where Ben shot Locke, right? Or wrong?"

Good observation if true!

"what has the power to kill or contain a Smoke Monster/MIB?"

A vacuum cleaner?

#158. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 18, 2010 12:58 AM

does anyone find it odd that claire, even in her state of being "infected," hasn't asked kate a single thing about aaron to this point? even if she's completely crazy and thinks that kate stole aaron from her or whatever, you'd think she'd still like to know a few details about the first three years of her son's life. ("so tell me, kate... uh... does he like cheerios?")

#159. Posted by: schmaboo at March 18, 2010 1:11 AM

The 'war' is finally making sense. All the candidates are stacked up on the 'good side'. Even Ben is with 'em.

#70. Posted by: Mizzed
If next week's teasers are correct and we finally get the Richard backstory we've been waiting for, then I'm all too ready to put "Re-Con" in the recycle bin and move on to next week.
at March 17, 2010 10:28 AM

amen Mizzed.

#160. Posted by: King Popcorn at March 18, 2010 1:12 AM

re:#138. Posted by: Prosecutor67
Hawaii Five-0! Now that would be a remake worth doing...and they're already all set up in Hawaii...just saying...
=========================
Done deal. But Daniel Kim (gin/Jin) is already signed-up.

#161. Posted by: Book'em Dano at March 18, 2010 3:59 AM

@159 schmaboo asked:

>does anyone find it odd that claire, even in her state of being "infected," hasn't asked kate a single thing about aaron to this point? even if she's completely crazy and thinks that kate stole aaron from her or whatever, you'd think she'd still like to know a few details about the first three years of her son's life. ("so tell me, kate... uh... does he like cheerios?")

Is also strikes me as odd that Kate hasn't asked Claire anything, like:

"What happened three years ago?"

"Why did you leave the camp where you and Sawyer and Miles were bedded down for the night?"

"Who was the older man with you that Miles said you said was your father?"

"Why was Aaron left in the woods where Sawyer found him?"

#162. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 18, 2010 7:43 AM

Sawyer said "top drawer on the right" which could be interpreted (at least) two ways. The topmost drawer, and then look inside the drawer on the right hand side, which is what Charlotte did, or the top drawer of the right hand dresser (which was shorter than the left hand dresser), which seems to be the drawer Sawyer meant.

I think those trying to read more than that into are trying to hard. She just met this guy, likes him so far, and is curious to learn more. So she checks out what books he's reading, and when a cute family photo falls out of a binder, she looks to see if it's full of other childhood memories.

Trust me, if you ever bring a guy or girl home for the first time, you gotta expect them to snoop a little.

#163. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 18, 2010 8:06 AM

All I have to say is, that Little House clip was amazing, and Melissa Gilbert=freckles.

#164. Posted by: MckFreckles at March 18, 2010 8:18 AM

the sawyer/mirror moment was a nod to "bullitt", the movie jimmy boy says made him want to be a cop

#165. Posted by: ray at March 18, 2010 8:20 AM

@158/Plain Simple -
>>>
"what has the power to kill or contain a Smoke Monster/MIB?"

A vacuum cleaner?
>>>

The Ghost Busters' ectoplasmic containment vessel? Is MIB really Gozer? Hey welh, how's your ancient Sumerian? ;)

#166. Posted by: ealgumby at March 18, 2010 8:52 AM

@ealgumby: That's it!

"Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

(Love that movie.)

#167. Posted by: mac at March 18, 2010 8:56 AM

Anybody recognize Alex in the back ground shot before Sawyer approached the bar? I surely thought she would be his date.

#168. Posted by: Guy at March 18, 2010 9:08 AM

@162: Cecil Rose - That's been bugging me like crazy since the two of them hooked up. You don't even once ask how Aaron is? You don't ask what the hell were you thinking leaving your baby in the middle of nowhere? I know there's a certain suspension of disbelief we're all attempting here with smoke monsters and disappearing islands a time travel, but not even a "Hey, so do you have a picture of my baby?".

#169. Posted by: LostedIt at March 18, 2010 9:14 AM

@158: Plain Simple, @166: ealgumby - Given that Ben released the smoke monster once from allowing water to go down a drain, wouldn't it be funny if they ended up calling in the Roto-Rooter man to eradicate them of this problem once and for all? ;)

#170. Posted by: LostedIt at March 18, 2010 9:17 AM

"Going back to Hydra island by canoe reminded me that we never did find out who was shooting at Sawyer/Juliet when they were in the canoes and skipping through time in S5. Didn't they shoot back and hit someone? Does anyone get the feeling we are soon going to see this play out (from the perspective of the other canoe), with very ironic and tragic results?"

I was thinking the exact same thing and couldn't remember either if we had seen this. I thought not, but then since it hasn't come up in recent weeks among the "open questions", I started doubting. Some Lostpedia search revealed that we haven't seen the resolution to this yet (the scene was in last year's "The Little Prince").
#152. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 17, 2010 11:16 PM

Could it be possible that Jack was in the second canoe and he was the one that got shot? He had a mark (cut) on his neck that hasn't been explained yet.

#171. Posted by: btly at March 18, 2010 9:31 AM

@171. btly: Do we remember who was in the canoe? Because they got fired on first, so it wouldn't make sense for any of them to be in the rear canoe (unless they're shouting, wait, don't shoot, that's us).

I think it was all the time jumpers except Jin and Sayid, right? (Both of whom are with DeadLocke now). Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Charlotte, Daniel...?

#172. Posted by: LockeBox at March 18, 2010 9:59 AM

@143/Clementine asked what's behind the sub door?

It depends on the shock value the writers want to convey:

1. If it is to "disarm" Flocke, then it could be Locke's crazy mother, who would scold Flocke for his bad behavior, causing MIB to short circuit based on Locke's old memories.

2. If it is to make the time line more "loopy," it could be Anthony Cooper. A shocked Sawyer would say "I already killed you!" And the con-man will snark back, "well, you did a lousy job."

3. If it a final test for Sawyer, it could be Sawyer's own father. Reason: to become an island leader you need to kill your father.

4. Or, if the script elements are being recycled, the room will be filled with C4 explosives like on the freighter.

@166 ealgumby asked "how's your ancient Sumerian?"

Nil. I don't think I have the time to double major in Egyptology and Ancient Sumerian Studies.


#173. Posted by: welh at March 18, 2010 10:07 AM

Who goes to Australia for the weekend? I actually took the flight from LAX to Sydney and it was 14 miserable hours. the time difference and the 28 hours in the air (round trip) would not make it possible to go to Australia for "the weekend". I'm just nit picking - It's not a clue and there's no revelation attached to this comment - just bugged me and had to vent about it.

#174. Posted by: Skipper at March 18, 2010 10:08 AM

#172. Posted by: LockeBox at March 18, 2010 9:59 AM

I guess I didn't think that through as Jack wasn't on the island at that point.
Still wondering about the cut on his neck.

#175. Posted by: btly at March 18, 2010 10:20 AM

As we continue to hurtle toward the end of LOST, I think we need to keep a few things in perspective regarding our beloved show:

(1) I seriously doubt ABC/Disney wold agree to have this whole show be based on religious themes. Just not gonna happen. Way too deep. Way too polarizing.

(2) While we are obsessed with this show and with analyzing every fact and nuance, there are plenty of viewers who aren't. They just watch and enjoy. That said, our "answers" to the island mysteries are just not going to be complicated and involved. Remember advertisers want to appeal to the masses and the show doesn't happen without the almightly ad dollars flowing in.

(3) all along, since the pilot episode, the producers have repeatedly said this show is about a core group of characters. So, all the folks who are theorizing that "secondary" characters are the lynchpins are misguided. While it might be fun to see Dogan pop up in Jack's Sideways world and Charlotte in Sawyer's, at the ned of it all it is about Jack, Sawyer, etc and NOT about Charlotte, Dogan, etc.

(4) If we take the producers at their word that they had an end planned all along (and were not making it up as they went) then it all really has to come down to the ORIGINAL characters that signed-on to this show for the long-haul. And NOT those that we just saw in a few episodes or have been billed as "guest stars."

#176. Posted by: GatorGal at March 18, 2010 10:48 AM

Vampires!!! I got it!!! The whole secret behind Lost is vampires! Jacob... seemingly immortal... killed by a knife in the heart! Locke turns into mist (well mist is smoke)... and needs to occasional bloodbath to survive!

So here's the thing... The island harbors the coven on vampires. Jacob is one of these veggie vamps like in Twilight. Flocke, blood maniac, has been trying to convince him that they need to get out of there and seize the world by the jugular. They both need candidates for their new coven. The losties are potential vampires... except Hurley who's the reservoir they'll all feed on in the end!

Charlotte would make one hot vampire by the way!

Can anyone find holes in this theory? Watertight if you ask me!

#177. Posted by: Puck at March 18, 2010 10:58 AM

Re GatorGal @178:

(1) How does this not contradict the fact that the show has been filled with (among other things) religious themes from the start? Sure, the show is not simply a retelling of one of the major religion's mythologies, but it sure borrows themes and stories from a lot of them.

(2) The people who stuck with the show thus far obviously either don't mind or even like (!) complexity in a tv show, or they don't mind not understanding what's going on. Either way, I don't see any reason for TPTB to change the tone of the show drastically in the last couple of episodes.

(3) I don't think you would a lot of disagreement on this one. The discussion comes in the gray areas: Desmond, Walt, Eko, Charlie, Faraday... once upon a time all these characters seemed like they would be important players in the show ---no, let me rephrase, they were important players in the show as long as they were on it--- but they seemed to have been all but forgotten by now. Can we expect the return of some of them in some major role? Charlie seems likely, even if it is in ALT world; Desmond... likely as well I'd say; Walt... hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath; Eko and Faraday... probably not, perhaps Faraday in an ALT world cameo.

#178. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 18, 2010 11:12 AM

@176/GatorGal -
>>>
(4) If we take the producers at their word that they had an end planned all along (and were not making it up as they went) then it all really has to come down to the ORIGINAL characters that signed-on to this show for the long-haul.
>>>

Wasn't Jack *originally* supposed to die?

#179. Posted by: ealgumby at March 18, 2010 11:22 AM

@158 Plain Simple said:
I seem to remember from back in literature class that mirrors indicate death. So perhaps Sawyer is the only one who will defy death and survive. More likely though, I am way off.

Sounds good to me. I have thought all along that Sawyer would end up being the "hero". I don't have have theories as to how or why, I just can't wait to see it happen.

#180. Posted by: Amyr at March 18, 2010 11:23 AM

Great review, Mac. Great comments, everyone.

1) I agree: Miles' girlfriend has GOT to be Ana Lucia.
2) Charlotte in Ford's drawer: She was awfully grabby. Like she was looking for something other than a Tshirt.
3) Flocke = Aaron. Hmmmmm. Interesting, and I *could* go with this theory. However, I'm going to keep it simple and assume FLocke was manipulating Kate and setting her up to kill Claire or at least keep Aaron for herself.
4) How many thought Widmore and Flocke/Smokey were working together? Maybe ... although Widmore brought those anti-smoke thingys to the island.
5) Sideways World: This episode confused me more. IMHO, Sawyer and Sayid's Sideways stories are not "happy endings", whereas Jack and Ben's seem to be more happier -- but not perfect by any means. I DON'T GET WHY THE WRITERS ARE GIVING US THESE STORIES?? I am going to stick with it; but I'm frustated!
6) Inside the sub: Gotta be Desmond! He's GOT to come back to the island, and I'm betting he's not crashing in a plane anytime soon.
7) I have a feeling the writers are going for a final theme that is ... more NUANCED than GOOD vs. EVIL. I also wonder if Sawyer smashing the mirror is a foreshadowing of things to come ... will Sawyer be the one to "smash" this weird mirror-sideways world?

#181. Posted by: DC-Matt at March 18, 2010 11:48 AM

I think if we figure out what kind of room is behind the lock, we'll be able to figure out who's in there.

Janitor's Closet – Kevin Johnson
Maccutcheon Storage Room - Desmond
Dharma Lampshade Station – A Drunk Mrs. Hawking
Padded Room – Charlie
Baby's Room – Charlie Hume, Ji-Yeon or Aaron
Game Room (With Backgammon) - Waaaaaalt
Casket Storage – Christian Shephard or John Locke 2.0 (or 3.0?)
Bathroom - Poopy Paolo
Room of Disguises - Tom Friendly (c'mon, can't we get just a little cameo. He rocked!)
Dressing Room – Helen, getting ready for her wedding (can she soothe the savage Flocke?)
Egyptian Tomb - Mrs. MIB (Grabs Flocke by the ear: "C'mon dear, stop playing with that dirty smoke and come back home.")

Or maybe it's just Betty White.

#182. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 18, 2010 12:19 PM

I'm still wondering if Smokey and Widmore aren't on the same side. Ben has always claimed to be loyal to Jacob but is enemies with Widmore. So either Widmore was jealous of and a rival with Ben for Jacob's attention or he plays for MIBs team.
If Jacob turns into a white pillar of smoke aas some have theorized, then Widmore's Porta-Sonic-Death-Pylons could be to protect against Jacob or his successor (who would likely eventually have Jacob's abilities.

If Jack is the successor to Jacob the would the white smoke be accompanied by heavy breathing noises rather than the rattling chains sound of black smokey?

#183. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 18, 2010 12:26 PM

@126. Posted by: lost2theworld
re: But as a single guy who lives alone, who would you have to hide things from?

With this logic, why would you hide anything at all? And if you hid something in the dresser, why wouldn't you grab Charlotte a shirt, instead of guiding her close to the hidden treasure? He's a detective - you'd think he'd be a little more crafty? It's weak writing, but not a deal breaker as it is somewhat plausible. It would have made more sense if he was already in the shower, and she just opted to snag a shirt on her own.

@lost2theworld
@berkyo
re: kidnap Charlie

Is Widmore that much of a monster that he would kidnap his own grandson, and keep him locked in a room like that? Maybe. I think we just expect that Desmond will be back in some capacity, and this seems like the easiest way to do it. If Desmond is not on the sub, I would expect that neither is Eloise, as she would be needed to help Desmond locate and return to the island. How else would he do it?

@134. Posted by: Mizzed
re: Flocke's mama = Locke's mama

A couple of us have mentioned this.

The one thing I don't think that has been brought up is that this episode has confirmed that Flocke is capable of lying. Up until know, we've seen him manipulate with pseudo-truthes, but we've never seen him flat out lie. Even at the beginning of the episode, he talks about how smokey killed the temple folks - he just omits the fact that he is smokey! But he completely flat out lies to Claire when he tells her that the Others have Aaron, though he justifies this with some pretty good reasoning. The point being - we now know that Flocke is capable of lying, so long as there is a strong enough motivation. Leaving the island could be a red herring.


@135. Posted by: Gumbo
re: Smokey and the form of Flocke

Silly Gumbo! Everyone knows that smoke monsters don't have mouths, and are therefore incapable of speech! Hence why he takes human form... ;)


@162. Posted by: Cecil Rose
@159. Posted by: schmaboo
@169. Posted by: LostedIt
re: Claire is Odd

C'mon folks! This is Lost! We must suspend our disbelief, and just assume people would never press further on obvious questions (such as Kate and the reborn Locke). Think back to the earlier seasons - No one likes telling each other anything important!!!! I'm willing to buy into Claire's excuse - she is a zombie after all. She's busy thinking about how tasty Kate's brain would be....

@133. Posted by: berkyo
@152. Posted by: Plain Simple
@171. Posted by: btly
@172. Posted by: LockeBox
re: the 2nd canoe

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Does anyone remember who fired the shot back? I think it was either Sawyer of Juliette? The key thing to remember is that it was the mystery canoe who fired first. If it turns out to be any of our regulars, I guess I would wander about why they would open fire onto a random canoe? Now that Widmore and goons are on Hydra island, it would make more sense that it would be some of these folk on board the mystery canoe. Still - imagine it turns out to be Sawyer who gets shot? How weird would that be (either shot by himself, or his dead girlfriend).


@174. Posted by: Skipper
re: week-end flight to the land down under

Totally. Having done it myself, it is a very long flight. Thankfully, was with a group of friends, and we drank lots of booze!


@177. Posted by: Puck
re: Vampires

Arghhhhh! Criiiiiiiiinge!
I beg of you - no linkage to Twilight!!!

Can't you simply say:

"If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumber'd here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yielding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend:
if you pardon, we will mend:
And, as I am an honest Puck,
If we have unearned luck
Now to 'scape the serpent's tongue,
We will make amends ere long;
Else the Puck a liar call;
So, good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends."

#184. Posted by: shikotee at March 18, 2010 12:30 PM

@176/GatorGal: "then it all really has to come down to the ORIGINAL characters that signed-on to this show for the long-haul."

@179/ealgumby: "Wasn't Jack *originally* supposed to die?"

D&C have consistently said that the framework for the story arc and the central mythology for the show was in place from the beginning.

However, as they see the show as character driven, they have felt free to tinker extensively with the show based on which characters are working and which aren't, without (in their minds) disturbing the overall integrity of the story direction.

The intention in the pilot episode was for a central character to be killed off to demonstrate to the viewers that traditional tv rules would not apply on Lost.

As they continued to rewrite the pilot script, they warmed to Jack's character, and decided to kill the Oceanic pilot off instead of the good doctor.

A similar example is the development of Ben. He was not originally intended to be the leader of the Others, but as they continued to work with Michael Emerson, they liked his work so much that they merged his character with their plans for a yet to emerge Others chief.

In retospect, season 1 could be retitled, "Lost: Open Tryouts". Everyone rotated through their backstories, everyone got an island adventure.

The characters that worked and had room to be developed- Sawyer and Hurley for example- found their roles expanded and their characters fleshed out.

Those that didn't- paging Boone and Shannon- found their roles pruned back, with an untimely island death just ahead.

Fresh off his Lord of the Rings role, Dominic Monaghan was considered a "name" actor, and Charlie got as much screen time as anyone in the beginning of the series.

TPTB admitted they ran into a wall with his drug addict character and couldn't figure out how to develop his arc, leading to his heroic death at the end of season 3.

Charlie's death had the side effect of seriously diminishing Claire's character value, causing the writers to put her into actress timeout for two seasons.

Malcolm David Kelly's huge growth spurt played havoc with the internal timeline on the island (1st three seasons= 100 days on island), and caused a major left turn for both Walt and Michael, as well as never to be cured viewer angina on how Walt went from super magic child to MIA.

Season 2 introductions Ana Lucia, Eko and Libby didn't work well, either for off camera or on camera reasons, leading to sudden character endings that still frustrate some viewers (exactly why did Smokey target Eko again?).

They tried again in season 3 with PaulNikki, and we all saw how that went.

The only really successful character introductions to the main cast since season 1 were Ben and Des in season 2 and Juliet in season 3, meaning there were more misfires than successes in additions to the cast. (I guess if you want to include Miles, you can, but he's still on the second banana club in my view).

IMO, TPTB are sticking to where they want to go, but trying to do it through the most interesting characters possible. Seems reasonable to me...

#185. Posted by: Mizzed at March 18, 2010 12:33 PM

@142/Alaïs_Longthought "Mizzed: MIB's or Locke's memories? Um, yes. See Post #18."

@184/shikotee "Mizzed: Flocke's mama = Locke's mama. A couple of us have mentioned this."

Sorry, not trying to co-opt anyone's earlier suggestions. I do try to read everyone else's posts before posting myself. We're definitely all on the same track.

My thoughts after the last episode was to question whether Smokey Flocke has ever actually been human, regardless of his claims, or has he been internalizing other's thoughts and memories from the beginning?

#186. Posted by: Mizzed at March 18, 2010 12:46 PM

@77 Posted by: shikotee

You bring up a good point. I mean, I know I'D be upset as well; but what's up with her? None of her behavior was very Kate-like (i.e. not demanding more answers from Flocke). I'm kinda disappointed that she didn't power through her emotion like she usually does. I guess I just always expect her to be strong but, alas, she is only human.

#187. Posted by: m-class at March 18, 2010 12:55 PM

@ 184

You're the only one to mention Robin Goodfellow... i'm impressed! Usually posters just go puck you or something like that... and are mighty pleased with themselves :)

I'm telling you the vampire thing stands... they're all starting to hate mirrors this season!

#188. Posted by: Puck at March 18, 2010 1:02 PM

@175 btly. Pretty sure supergirl Juliet fired the shot from the canoe. (Amazing, how the island grants Others combat mastery - sorry, just bringing up another minor mystery certain to be left in the dust.)

No reason Jack or another of the O6 couldn't be in the rear canoe, as long as someone trigger-happy and confused (Ilana? Ben?) is there too, or if they're hostage to some of DeadLocke's crew.

#189. Posted by: LockeBox at March 18, 2010 1:40 PM

@185 Mizzed:

Well said! I totally agree. Thanks for the detailed insight.

Also, for the record, I was not trying to stir up controversy in my previous post, simply trying to say that Damon and Carlton have said this is a character-driven story and IF it is important to the central characters they have developed, then it will be answered.

#190. Posted by: GatorGal at March 18, 2010 2:10 PM

@184 Shikotee

No one tells anyone anything...

Couldnt agree more, its bugged me the whole time, whatever they find, see, hear or know is rarely and inconsistantly shared with the rest of the group. I can't understand why or if its even important but because its such common theme it could be important

Loved seeing Sawyer this week...he's my fav character. He seems to have *grown* the most IMHO

@143 LOL

Cant wait to see Richards back story, will we see him in dreadlocks AKA Johnny Depp??

#191. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 18, 2010 3:13 PM

@ 185 - Good summery but - some people get killed off just to kill them off. It's not Leave It To Beaver on an Island, where the Bev learns a lesson. People live - people die. I liked Mr. Eko and would have liked to see him on the show still. Just like Rose & Bernard. But, they needed to go their own way.

I think the main people are the main people and we'll find out what it's all about Alfie in a few short episodes.

#192. Posted by: dk at March 18, 2010 3:14 PM

Upon rewatch of this episode I noticed:

(1) Sawyer's opening line "mirrored" Juliet's last: "Son of a bi**h!"

(2) The closing scene where Detective Ford pins Kate up against a chain link fence "mirrored" the other famous scene they had together in the bear cages ...

(3) the fact that Claire never asks Kate ANYthing about Arron (where is he now? How is he? What does he look like? Is he healthy? etc) is really, really buggin' me. Just sayin'...

#193. Posted by: GatorGal at March 18, 2010 3:25 PM

James demands that Widmore won't harm the people on his boat, when he takes them across. How tragic would it be if Juliette shoots and kills James :(

#194. Posted by: Mischa at March 18, 2010 4:14 PM

Confusion At The Bar. The difference between English and American pick-up lines.

Det. Ford: (playfully) Hey sweetheart, you wanna go back to my place and "go through my drawers?"

Dr. Lewis: (thinks - what an odd bodkin) Why not. But to warn, wear your sunglasses, I have a terrible glare... and only offer me water. (thinks - at least he didn't ask me if I wanted to check-out his "shag" carpet.)

#195. Posted by: Already Bored at March 18, 2010 4:29 PM

If anyone is interested - there will be an auction of LOST items coming up this summer. Take a look at the auction house website. You'll find lots of props that will be auctioned off.

http://bit.ly/bSq99h

#196. Posted by: dk at March 18, 2010 4:52 PM

About Eko: I've said from the gitgo that Eko died because, of all the main characters, he had reached a level of self forgiveness and understanding that prevented Smokey from manipulating him. And if he had lived, he would guided his 815er pals down the same path. yes, the actor wanted out, but I was satisfied with how TPTB did it.

About Claire: Claire only just found out Kate really did have Aaron. Right now she must be fuming angry with Flocke and trying to process the implications of his lie to her. I think we will see her ask about Aaron pretty quick.

#197. Posted by: undauntid at March 18, 2010 4:55 PM

re: 191 Lostncyberspace: "Loved seeing Sawyer this week...he's my fav character. He seems to have *grown* the most IMHO"

Ah. Me too! Those dimples! That delicious accent! That Southern charm. All make me swoon. And, like you, I appreciate his character's depth, growth and self-effacement. If he ends up on the "die alone" side of the fence instead of the "live together" one I will be SO unhappy.

#198. Posted by: GatorGal at March 18, 2010 5:03 PM

James Ford certainly has grown the most. He is practically an Einstein. Let's see. --

He always has a book in his hands.

Hot con man sex with the mark.

Hot cage sex with Kate.

Hot barracks sex with Juliet.

Hot apartment sex with Charlotte.

Maybe he met Bai Ling in Sydney for some hot Holiday Inn Express sex, just for the weekend.

#199. Posted by: Tripping Hard at March 18, 2010 5:23 PM

I am all for a character driven show, so long as TPTB actually have a destination, and I don't mean group therapy or "trust exercises" at a corporate retreat.

#200. Posted by: welh at March 18, 2010 6:51 PM

-- Flocke's mama = Locke's mama == FLLama


Perhaps this Richard-centric episode will answer the canoe-shooting dilemma.
Juliette is shooting at...a canoe with Richard/Black Rock pirates.

#201. Posted by: Gumbo at March 18, 2010 7:34 PM

WGNALBO !

( We're Gonna Need A Longer Black Out ! )

ooops. sorry. wrong weblog.

#202. Posted by: JoeFiennes at March 18, 2010 8:10 PM

Will another blackout do?

#203. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 18, 2010 10:17 PM


#183. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes - If Jack is the successor to Jacob the would the white smoke be accompanied by heavy breathing noises rather than the rattling chains sound of black smokey?

So would it kill people, or just annoy them to death?

#204. Posted by: surefoot at March 18, 2010 10:18 PM

Losties in other contexts:

Maggie "Shannon Rutherford" Grace as a kidnapped American tourist saved from a fate worse than death by her ex-CIA dad (Liam Neeson) in "Taken", a movie that's been out for a while but is now showing up on cable.

Dominic "Charlie Pace" Monaghan back with a vengance on tonight's spring premiere of "Flash Forward".

Francois "Dr. Pierre Chang" Chau in a beer commercial as the chief astronomer in an observatory. When he announces that a newly sighted comet will destroy the world all the scientist decide to have a wild party featuring the sponsor's beer. When the comet threat fizzles out, they party on.

#205. Posted by: Cecil at March 18, 2010 10:33 PM

@92 ransomjackson
"Poopoo undies"...Young Frankenstein reference?

#206. Posted by: monster 34 at March 18, 2010 10:40 PM

HIL! Hurling Is Last! Took me 2 days to get the download - I was afraid I'd have to wait 'til next Wed & be a week behind. :(


@8/Cecil - Yep, we all wondered what number. :)

@20/Jag - OOOOOOOH, interesting idea! Faraday's been time-tripping for eons! Doesn't seem that he's scheming enough to duel Jacob, but I guess you can develop that skill after a few centuries.

Charlotte was just plain rude & didn't deserve Sawyer's apology. Who looks through someone's personal things when they're only supposed to be getting a T-shirt? Does she search medicine cabinets at all her friends' homes too? And why was it Miles' business where Sawyer went on vacation? Can a person get a little PRIVACY here? I agree with everyone who said she looked suspicious - I thought she was digging on purpose. So did she refuse his apology thinking he'll come back a 2nd time? That's risky. Or did she get what she needed when she saw the article?

I keep thinking Claire is dead. And if she's dead, can she leave the island? I think being dead makes her unable to ask questions about Aaron. She is stuck trying to find him, but can't understand that he's grown.

@83. Posted by: Artz Vandelay - Claire was crazy right away - remember when she was in the cabin with Christian acting stoned?

@126. Posted by: lost2theworld - ransom was a little confused. The new hamper in the bathroom is for socks & poopoo undies, not the dresser drawer.

@131. Posted by: Amyr - But Jack smashed Jacob's entire mirror.

@174. Posted by: Skipper - Exactly. I'm in Australia now. If you leave LAX at 10 pm Fri, you arrive in Oz at 6 am Sun. You can then leave Mon 11 am and arrive back Mon 7 am, which gives you just about 24 hrs on the ground. Barely time to leave the airport, shoot someone (if you know exactly where he is) & get back to the security line. But it wasn't a miserable flight - I watched movies. "I am not our father." :)

#207. Posted by: hurling at March 19, 2010 1:52 AM

@ 26 Jin + Tonic

DES IN THE CUPBOARD?!

Love it! Totes makes sense.

#208. Posted by: semsav at March 19, 2010 3:35 AM

For anyone interested in a solid hypothesis for the overall concept of our favorite obsession, check out this link.

http://bit.ly/dBNvFE

Helps to reaffirm my belief that MIB and Jacob are life and death personified! Or, it will be disproven next Tuesday!!

#209. Posted by: giggity at March 19, 2010 7:54 AM

Re #209 giggity:

Thanks for posting that link. Her theory is very similar to one that Doc Jensen (over at EW) posed a few weeks ago: that Jacob and MIB are representative of Alpha and Omega, the beginning (life) and the end (death). You can't have one without the other and a balance must exist or chaos will ensure.

I enjoyed reading it (hers was more fleshed out) so again, thanks for sharing!

#210. Posted by: GatorGal at March 19, 2010 8:28 AM

@ #206 monster 34 queried, "Poopoo undies"...Young Frankenstein reference?

Yup, you betcha. In the top 5 funniest movies of all time.

Man, I miss Madeline Kahn. And Peter Boyle.

And now Fess Parker too? Wussup widdat?

#211. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 19, 2010 8:40 AM

@ Hurling:"But Jack smashed Jacob's entire mirror." Jack smashed a mirror showing his past. Sawyer smashed a mirror showing himself in the here and now. Was this representative of each of them rejecting their pain and finally moving on? They each showed a marked divergence from their typical behavior after the smashing incident.

re Charlotte: "Or did she get what she needed when she saw the article?" was it my imagination or did I note a look of alarm when she saw the photo? As though she recognized someone in it? I wonder if they share a parent? That would certainly explain her rejection of James Ford, totally hot guy with dimples. And I can understand keeping that info to herself while she tried to wrap her brain around a major, sceazy (accidental as it might be) "oops."

#212. Posted by: undauntid at March 19, 2010 10:43 AM

...and don't forget Marty (EEE-gor, it's pronounced EYE -gor) Feldman, who was the first to go.

Maybe there's more to the connection to Young Frankenstein, the Abby-Someone -- Normal, I think -- brain...it did have a song with it...'Ain't no body got. Hackitacha'

#213. Posted by: Gumbo at March 19, 2010 11:38 AM

I re-watched the episode today. Miles seems to be to be acting like a jealous, manipulative boyfriend with James in this episode.

"Who is Anthony Cooper?"
"You went to Palm Springs?"
"Is there something you want to tell me?"
"You lied to me!"
"Why did you go to Austrailia?"
"Fine, we are not partners anymore!"

Cue the psycho music as the camera pans to the bunny boiling on the stove! Yeah, they're partners, but really?!

I think Miles set up Charlotte with James to do some snooping for him. (That idea has probably already been put out there.) After rewatching, it seems obvious that that's the case IMO. The hot Sawyer sex was just a bonus for Charlotte...can't say I'm blame her for grabbing that opportunity when it presented itself ;-)

#214. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 19, 2010 2:18 PM

@186. Posted by: Mizzed

No worries.... just busting your balls! It is very hard to keep track of things in this forum, which is a shame.

It is interesting to wonder about how much control old smokey has over the thoughts he has absorbed. Makes me think of DS9, and the whole Dax/Kurzon (Trill) relationship.


@187. Posted by: m-class

In this situation, Kate's reaction coincides with the overall plan to roll-out the plot!


@188. Posted by: Puck

Will the show end in a classic Vampire VS Zombie battle? Brains and Blood! Mmmmm...

As for the bard reference, I'm glad there was more to you than being a hockey fan!

And speaking of the Bard - with the next episode being about Ricardus (and thus likely "The Black Rock"), can we draw up some parallels with The Tempest?

Prospero - Richard
Ariel - Jacob
Caliban - Smokey
Sycorax - mother of Jacob and Smokey

Just sayin....


@189. Posted by: LockeBox
@194. Posted by: Mischa
@201. Posted by: Gumbo
re: Juliet fired the shot

Indeed - shooting with such accuracy, whilst in a canoe/pontoon, in the wavy ocean. If memory serves me correct, mystery shot #1 nailed an oar. And you're right - it would be easy to write anyone into the situation of the other boat. With that said, should anyone from the time travel boat be on board, you'd think they'd make the connection? Then again - 3 years have passed since! Juliette killing Ford would be tragic, but I doubt they will go this route. Would it not be too similar to Eloise killing Faraday?

I doubt the canoe will be Black Rock Pirates - did it not look to be exactly the same type of boat that the time travelers were in? The again - it was a far distance, so maybe this is just an assumption I made/


@191. Posted by: lostncyberspace

The island has powers that limit communication skills? ;)


@192. Posted by: dk
@197. Posted by: undauntid
re: Eko

Yeah - I'd love to hear more about what they had in mind with Eko, had ha not insisted to leave the show. What's he done since? I know he was in the GIjoe movie. I still keep my fingers crossed that we will see him in the sideways world, but I've heard nothing on this front. I do hope they flesh out why smokey opted to smoke him at that time!


@204. Posted by: surefoot
re: So would it kill people, or just annoy them to death?

Zing!


@214. Posted by: lost2theworld
re: Miles

3 years of Dharma sure brought them close. Perhaps in a Tom friendly kind of close?

What I was wondering - Does sideways Miles have his ability, which he then uses as a detective? Could this be why he suspects things with Ford?

#215. Posted by: shikotee at March 19, 2010 3:20 PM

i hope to see sayid return to his normal self before the finale,
im not a fan of the lethargic zombie flocke disciple he has become,
flocke must have scooped some of sayids brain out.

#216. Posted by: san at March 19, 2010 4:14 PM

First of all, though late in posting, I want to congratulate Mac not only for a fine recap as usual but also for a very funny line, "And Sayid? Good lord, what did Flock do to this guy? He's a glazed donut." Brilliant!

By the time I reached the end of the comments it was three days later. Whew. I do think TPTB were playing with us when Sawyer's date turned out to be Charlotte and not the Juliet we were all expecting. And to hammer it home, then included the scene with the flower (though I don't think it was a sunflower with Juliet, just some yellow flower.)

I think the exchange between MIB and Jacob at the end of Season 5 is still critical to the eventual ending. When they are watching the ship (probably the Black Rock) approaching the island, MIB tells Jacob "... you brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong."

"You are wrong"

"They come, fight, they destroy and corrupt. It always ends the same.

"It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."

Whoever can figure this conversation out probably had a good grip on how this will all play out. I am almost going to vote for Jacob & MIB being David Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

What happened to the original MIB? Why does he always appear as someone the people he's appearing to know.

(I've asked this before) Does the sickness have anything to do with MIB or Jacob or is it the corruption MIB was talking about?

Why can't MIB leave the island? Where is his home?

I'm pretty much with Mizzed@185. When all is said and done, a lot of stuff we puzzle about will be as relevant as how do the sirens turn people into pigs or what happened to Cyclops' other eye?

#217. Posted by: August Paul at March 19, 2010 4:47 PM

re:@205. by Cecil
--Dr. Pierre Chang in a beer commercial as the chief astronomer -- he announces that a newly sighted comet....

Was it a new comet, or did he just see Charlotte's nakid backside?
-------
"HMS" Littleton.
Now that we know Miles and Claire are both in LA (and single?) maybe their destiny is to hook-up as Miles has been hinting towards. Det. Straume wants to hope on the HMS Littleton and take her for a cruise. (HMS = 'Hot Mess' Survivalist)

#218. Posted by: NoeDamFeer at March 19, 2010 4:52 PM

My late sweetheart was a cop. It doesn't strike me as strange at all that Miles is demanding answers from his partner James Ford. You want to know that your partner has your back, that he is not distracted. You want to know that he can be trusted and that he trusts you because otherwise, you can't count on your back being covered.

#219. Posted by: undauntid at March 19, 2010 4:54 PM

Just throwing this out here for speculation... Given the way that time and space distort around the island, is it possible that the Widmore in the sub is the alt-Widmore?

#220. Posted by: BrianV at March 19, 2010 5:32 PM

@212. undauntid: Or she was shocked because the same cute family photo she found of Sawyer is also in a news article about a homicide/suicide. I'd find that shocking.

#221. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 19, 2010 8:04 PM

on re-watch it now seems obvious that sawyer was meant to see the padlocked door,
the guard in the corridor could have stood next to the door, thus blocking sawyers view.

#222. Posted by: san at March 19, 2010 10:12 PM

I saw the episode again and this time around Charlotte's snooping around James' room seemed less suspicious to me. It could just have been searching for a t-shirt.


Here's a strange thought I had. We've all been assuming that the sideways flashes started this season. What if they actually started at the end of season 5, just like the flash forwards started at the end of season 3? What if Jacob touched the Candidates in the ALT world, not in the Island world?

I have to admit that I'm not convinced at all that this is the case, especially since we saw the scenes of Jacob's touches again in The Substitute when Flocke and Sawyer were in the cave, but still... this show invites us to challenge our preconceptions.

#223. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 19, 2010 10:26 PM

How do you explain the scene with Jacob and Hurley in the cab then?

#224. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 19, 2010 10:34 PM

^Good point. I think you just put the last nail in the coffin of this short lived hypothesis.

#225. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 19, 2010 10:37 PM

Tom told Michael the island "won't let you kill yourself." MIB couldn't kill Jacob. Richard couldn't kill himself but thought someone else could. If Jacob touched someone, does that mean that person can't die or that they cannot kill theirself?

So once touched suicide is not an issue. There was the scene when Jack pulled the trigger on Locke. Locke later said there were no bullets in the gun. I'm not sure about that because Keamy also pulled the trigger on Michael and the gun jammed. So, Michael couldn't be killed by someone else.

Are we to assume that somewhere in time Michael was touched by Jacob also? Is the only way to die to be blown up? Jin survived the explosion. He was touched. Am I missing any other scenes where our losties should have died?

#226. Posted by: pebspostal at March 19, 2010 11:52 PM

I forgot the biggest scene of all. Ben killing John Locke. How did that happen?

#227. Posted by: pebspostal at March 19, 2010 11:57 PM

#226...

Jack and Richard at the Black Rock. The dynamite didn't go off because Jack has "the Gift" like Richard does. If Jack had walked-off with Hugo, Richard would have had his Artz-splatter moment. But since Jack stayed, the dynamite would have been an act of suicide... so it shafizzled.

Juliet appears to have been untouched by Jacob. She smacked lil'Jughead, resulting in her death a short time later.

Mikhail seems to have been immortal for a time too - not just touched, but molested by Jacob ... but ... if he grenaded Charlie and died as a result... maybe he didn't have the "gift'.

Hate to think what gift Mr. Friendly recieved, or gave. Curious where he is going to show in the flash-sideways... straight as an arrow and conservative??

#228. Posted by: ANON2 at March 20, 2010 12:16 AM

@215/shikotee - "should anyone from the time travel boat be on board, you'd think they'd make the connection? Then again - 3 years have passed since!"

Heck, it's only been one year, and I had just about forgotten about the shooting incident with the outriggers! Went back to last year's posts, both to refresh my memory, and to see what had been speculated back then, seen in the light of what we know now. Unfortunately, not much new.

We do know the boats found on the beach in "The Little Prince" are the ones brought to the island from Hydra by 316 survivors. So, theoretically we could be seeing this scene again, with the fooming Losties stealing a canoe off the beach, and six people jumping in the other one to chase after them.

I'd have to ask, who and why? There was still a boat left on Hydra, so it could be Widmore's people coming to the island and running into the foomers, rather than people from the island in the other canoe giving chase. If it is Widmore's people, the person Juliet shot could be a red shirt. If it's people from the island though, then at least the potential is there for one of them to have been in the fooming canoe when fired upon.

In either case, there's still the question of why they were fired upon. It's also very possible that we'll never find out ... this could be a classic example of a plot "stub" which will never be revisited. After this much time, I'd suggest the majority of viewers *have* forgotten about this, and it just won't matter. So, at this point I'd be pleasantly surprised to see this scene pop up again.

At any rate, it was fun to read through some of the old posts ... I had speculated then (S5E6/274) that Juliet would end shooting herself in the other canoe. Well, scratch one more theory off as wrong! ;) I also came across this one I posted last year, and thought it was interesting in retrospect:

S5E7/212/ealgumby - "I'd love to see what happens when dead Locke meets up with Jacob and/or Christian and/or RA!"

Indeed! Guess I'm not *always* wrong ... although didn't quite anticipate the irony behind dead Locke meeting Christian. Along those lines, the prize for most prescient post goes to someone else:

S5E11/27/richardalpert - "I'm also convinced that Locke is a ghost or smoky image since he was dead on the airplane ala Christian Sheperd."

Finally, still wondering about this question I posed last year:

S5E8/501/ealgumby - "Who knew that the Hydra Island runway needed to be constructed for 316 to crash-land on?"

#229. Posted by: ealgumby at March 20, 2010 1:30 AM

A bit tangential ...

As I just mentioned, thinking about the canoe shooting, and whether or not we'll ever see this point revisited, brought me back to thoughts about plot "stubs" again. Perhaps because I deal with software engineering every day, I often find correlations between the Lost writing and programming techniques.

My latest such discovery came yesterday, when I stumbled across this article while looking up something about Subversion branching:

http://tinyurl.com/ylmqsoh

I know the whole multiverse thing has been discussed to death, but I still found this take on the subject interesting, in light of its application to Lost and the "sideways" universe currently portrayed.

The quote from the article I found amusing: "Although branching offers the seductive appeal of infinite possibility with very little risk, it also brings along something far less desirable: infinite complexity."

Can't help but wonder if the Lost writers fell victim to the seductive appeal of the sideways reality concept ... leaving the viewers to suffer the far less desirable effects of that decision! ;)

Sorry for the rather non sequitur ramble ...

#230. Posted by: ealgumby at March 20, 2010 1:58 AM

@220. Posted by: BrianV
Just throwing this out here for speculation... Given the way that time and space distort around the island, is it possible that the Widmore in the sub is the alt-Widmore?

$$$$$$$$$

This is not possible b/c in the sidways world, the Island is under water.

#231. Posted by: Skipper at March 20, 2010 3:10 AM

Thoughts on Jacob's touch. Richard says it is 'considered a gift' - considered a gift by who? Does everyone who is touched get a gift? Is that gift simply 'immortality' of some kind, or is it different for each person?

People we know have been touched:
- Jack (as a young man)
- Sawyer (as a child)
- Kate (as a child)
- Jin and Sun (as newlyweds)
- Hurley (after leaving the island)
- Sayid (after leaving the island)

People we know have special unexplained abilities:
- Hurley - chats with dead people (but this started before Jacob touched him. Still, Jacob refers to this as a 'gift' I think - is it possible he was also touched some time before?)
- Miles - hears the last thoughts of dead people
- Possibly Jack - he 'miraculously' healed his future wife, could this be considered a Jacob-imparted gift? Also we now see he couldn't kill himself in the last episode
- Possibly Michael - couldn't kill himself until the island was done with him
- Possibly Locke and Rose - Locke was apparently brought back to life, and both were healed by the island; Locke also had lots of islandy dreams.
- Possibly Eko, he had islandy dreams too...
- Desmond - lots of random stuff!
- Walt - also lots of random stuff!

And obviously Richard is the only one we know was touched and is non-aging and cannot kill himself (or apparently be killed by Jack) as a result. I wonder when he was touched? While on the island? Or before he came? MIB says to Jacob about the Black Rock, 'You brought them here'.

I'm wondering if a 'gift' from Jacob is simply that from that moment forward your path will lead to the island. Or perhaps that Jacob has chosen you for a particular task that (maybe) you are guaranteed to stay alive long enough to fulfil, or at least choose whether or not to fulfil? Sometimes that involves imparting special abilities, sometimes not - but even pre-island Kate and Sawyer showed remarkable ability to get away with stuff and not be caught or killed. Perhaps Jacob's touch enhances certain character traits that will lead them to the island to fulfil their destiny?

#232. Posted by: Jo at March 20, 2010 7:27 AM

229/ealgumby - "Who knew that the Hydra Island runway needed to be constructed for 316 to crash-land on?"

The simplest answer is Jacob. Ben was the director of operations of the Others but took his orders from Jacob, via Richard. Now why he needed the runway is still an open question -- to bring the Ajira flight and its passengers to the island or as a mechanism for departure from the island (maybe he's trying to help MIB leave the island?).

#233. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 20, 2010 8:29 AM

I am sure that fooming will be involved in events yet to come. Why?

-There has to be some kind of payoff to the FDW
-It's a handy storytelling device, enabling the characters and thus the audience to experience past events on the Island for themselves, instead of just learning about them
-It opens up more possible explanations for how the ATL came to be

#234. Posted by: Mischa at March 20, 2010 9:36 AM

@228. ANON2: "Hate to think what gift Mr. Friendly recieved, or gave. Curious where he is going to show in the flash-sideways... straight as an arrow and conservative??"

Hope you meant your comment to be funny, and not homophobic...

#235. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 20, 2010 10:00 AM

@229, ealgumby: "Who knew that the Hydra Island runway needed to be constructed for 316 to crash-land on?"

Funny you bring that up. I was thinking the same thing when I was watching the scene from this week's episode where Sawyer arrives at the plane again. As Scooby-Dude pointed out @233, Jacob is an option. It might also hint at the possibility hypothesized by some, that it was actually not Jacob who was giving Ben orders, but it was MIB posing as Jacob.


ealgumby @230: "My latest such discovery came yesterday, when I stumbled across this article while looking up something about Subversion branching"

Great read, ealgumby! The line that struck me as particularly relevant to the current Lost branching was: "All branches are created with the intention of eventually merging, somewhere. A branch without a merge is pointless." And a bit later he notes that branching has "its own set of anti-patterns" among which "Mysterious Branches: Nobody can tell you what the branches are for."

Sounds like the ALT branch thus far alright.

Skipper @231: "This is not possible b/c in the sidways world, the Island is under water."

He did come in a sub. (just joking, I know what you meant)... hmmm now I'm picturing Widmore in a loaf of bread...

#236. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 20, 2010 10:39 AM

#232. Posted by: Jo
Perhaps Jacob's touch enhances certain character traits that will lead them to the island to fulfil their destiny?

Yes

-------------
Long musing to follow...
#236. Posted by: Plain Simple
It might also hint at the possibility hypothesized by some, that it was actually not Jacob who was giving Ben orders, but it was MIB posing as Jacob.

Again, I posit the question of who was in the ash encircled cabin and who was roaming the island and who put the break in the ash letting the guy(in the Cabin) get out? And of course why?

I cannot make this work out.

If it was MIB/Smokey (because there is ash to contain him as we saw Ilana's crew do to Flocke) then did Jacob put him there? and why?

[This is a link to a page with the photo of the "man who says Help me" to Locke.
http://interlost.wordpress.com/2009/04/
looks like Locke.]

This would appear to be wrong because we saw the smoke monster frequently. Even after Ben and Locke visited the cabin .

So It was NOT Sflocke.
So It must have been Jacob. Put there by MIB ? why? How long was he there? And when did he get out and who broke the ash ring for him?

We saw Jacob (I assume it was Jacob) visit the Losties earlier in their lives than the crash except for Sayid and Hurley. Locke was still alive and himself if we assume MIB did not use his body until he died and got to Hydra.

When Ilana comes to the island and goes to the cabin, she sees the ash ring broken and the cabin in a shambles with the Knife and piece of carpet(?) from Jacobs suite in the foot of the statue. Lostpedia says - "Bram discovered that the ring of ash around the cabin was broken, and the group appeared distraught. Ilana stepped over the ash and went inside to look for clues that would tell her what to do. She found a scrap of cloth that bore the picture of the statue, and before they left. She told the group that someone other than Jacob had been using the cabin and that they had to burn it."

http://tiny.cc/fWa7E this page has the knife and the rag

And how does she know where the cabin is and where the statue and Temple are? She must have been there or else found the island on Google earth.

Well, as you seem I have lost my train of thought again.....And the dog wants to go out.

There are a lot of clues that we are forgetting - like the canoe shooting. And just looking up what happened where for this musing I am reading a lot of things I had forgotten all about.

#237. Posted by: berkyo at March 20, 2010 12:03 PM

I have searched for a picture of the knife that Locke gave to Ben to kill Jacob with to see if it was the same knife in the Cabin . I cannot find one. The knife in the cabin was the knife that Jacob used to slice his fish in the scene with MIB when we first meet them.
Where did Flocke get the knife to kill Jacob. Was it Jacob's knife? Did Ben bring Locke's knives with him? I guess Locke left them on the island when he went down the well.I will re watch and find out.

#238. Posted by: berkyo at March 20, 2010 12:34 PM

@216 san..."flocke must have scooped some of sayids brain out."

Maybe he had them with some fava? beans a la Silence of the Lambs ;-)

@237 berkyo...I think that the pic looks like the MIB with long hair!

#239. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 20, 2010 12:44 PM

@238/berkyo - "I have searched for a picture of the knife that Locke gave to Ben to kill Jacob with to see if it was the same knife in the Cabin."

I was curious about the same thing after S6 premiere and checked ... they are NOT the same knife (the knife in the cabin is a machete, the one Ben stabbed Jacob with is a hunting knife ... BTW your tiny URL to the knife in cabin pic is not working).

I was *more* curious to see if the piece of cloth stabbed to the wall in the cabin was the same piece Flocke cuts from Jacob's tapestry to clean the knife blade after Ben killed Jacob.

... it is not ...

The cloth in the cabin has a pic of Tawaret on it ... the one cut from the Jacob's statue tapestry does not.

So, different cloth & different knives ... still wondering if this is yet another "production error" and they were *supposed* to be the same. This is where previous prop gaffes (e.g. multiple compasses used in different episodes, that were supposed to be the same one) make it hard to tell what TPTB's intent was here ... were the statue tapestry piece & knife *supposed* to be the same ones found in the cabin, but the prop shop couldn't find the same pieces shown last season? Or are they completely unrelated?

This particular instance of the "production error" problem irks me, because the answer to that question is potentially hugely important ...

Say the knife/tapestry props were intended to match ... what does that imply? To me, it shows that a time (or at least timeline) jump has occurred, because Ilana would've found the knife and cloth in the cabin BEFORE Ben killed Jacob. If that is true, I would suspect it might mean something (or once again, could just be sloppy writing).

At this point though, I have been burned too many times by things like this to believe there is any significance ... so I tend to think it all means nothing. Yet another "stub" the writers can use (or chose not to) any way they want ... and always fall back on "production error" to explain away plot inconsistencies if need be ... grr!

Rather long response to your question, sorry ...

#240. Posted by: ealgumby at March 20, 2010 1:00 PM

Yes, just watched 5 finale and the knife is different.

Why would they show a knife with a piece of cloth on the cabin wall? even if they are not the same as the ones Flocke cuts.( and for that matter why does he cut it off???)

Was it to show Ilana where he - Jacob - went? That he was alive and wll in the statue? I really wish they would not throw things like that in the plot unless it means something.

Anyway, If Jacob left the "note " for Ilana then that answers my question about who was in there. It Jacob . Now I need to know why Ilana says someone else has been using the cabin.

#241. Posted by: berkyo at March 20, 2010 1:07 PM

#238. Posted by: berkyo asked "where did Flocke get the knife to kill Jacob?"

and does anyone know if it is the same knife that Richard showed Locke as a child? If I remember correctly Locke did claim it as his at that time and Richard got all freaked out and left.

#242. Posted by: surefoot at March 20, 2010 1:18 PM

@237/berkyo - re interlost pic of "Jacob" in cabin ...

That was the first time we "see" Jacob (S3E20, "The Man Behind The Curtain") ... I actually find the wiki link better than the Lostpedia link for this epi (Lostpedia seems to have been "cleaned" reflecting what we're now supposed to know):

http://tinyurl.com/apfytz

I remember reading at the time that since the shot was just a shadowy flash frame, TPTB didn't put much thought into who would be playing Jacob in the scene, and just grabbed "somebody" off the set team ... imdb credits no one as Jacob in the epi.

More production error! :)

At any rate, I do not think it was either Jacob/MIB actor we've seen since then ... who it really was is probably immaterial now.

One thing I find interesting about the wiki link though ... "Locke pulls out a flashlight, which Ben had warned him not to do (saying that Jacob 'dislikes technology')" ... wow! That actually *could* mean something ...

I tend to think the whole Ted Kaczynski tech-hater aspect of the Jacob plot was abandoned by the writers long ago as a path that didn't pan out (I know, it's blasphemy for me to suggest TPTB have actually CHANGED the plot along the way, gasp!). Still, I have to wonder about the light sensitivity thing ... could that be a clue regarding MIB?

I know, but if MIB was in the cabin, then why was Smokey out and about, and if Jacob was in the cabin, why does he hate light so much? Makes no damned sense ...

Or ... it *could* simply be the case that the writers have (yet another gasp) changed the plot since S3, and there are inherent inconsistencies revealed now if you dig back to previous seasons.

Occam's Razor leads me to that conclusion ... in short, many things like this will just never make sense, because they can't ... too many changes in plot direction along the way to fit them all together nicely now.

So, like I said earlier about the canoe gun battle ... if TPTB can manage to work it back in somehow, I will be pleasantly surprised ...
but honestly I do not expect some of the older plot lines and hanging threads to be resolved by the end of May.

#243. Posted by: ealgumby at March 20, 2010 1:31 PM

@ berkyo: "I cannot make this work out."

ain't that the truth! The man in the cabin has to be telling us something important but I cannot figure it out.

Smokey was all over the place when that ash ring was intact around the cabin. We saw Christian wandering around when the ash ring was in place. So the ash has nothing to do with either keeping smokey or apparitions inside the cabin.

We saw smokey held back from murder by a ring of ash around his target.

So it would seem the ash was around the cabin to keep someone inside safe from smokey. But if that someone was Jacob, was Richard visiting the cabin on a regular basis to receive his instructions? How long was Jacob in the cabin? He was back and forth island/real world for years right up until the Ajira flight was organizing.
When did Jacob move from the cabin to the foot?

OR...could the cabin have been housing the being that is MIB? Not his physical self, but his "soul". And could it be that he was enclosed to prevent him from taking a human form?

Is smokey really the same critter as MIB? Why would Ben have the ability to unleash smokey if smokey was MIB? Why did Ben have to drain the water to release smokey when we had seen smokey all over the island? Did Ben or some other Other always release smokey and we just don't know it? Or could it be that there is a family unit of smoke monsters? a flocke of smokeys? lol.

apropos of nothing...it is snowing in sw oklahoma. schitzy crazy weather!

#244. Posted by: undauntid at March 20, 2010 1:31 PM

AND... how come only some people can find the cabin and other people cannot? Did Horus actually build the cabin in the 70s or was that just someone's dream? Doesn't the cabin move around a lot - meaning that it's not always in the same place? What could that mean?

People who have seen the cabin: Locke, Hurley, Richard, Ben, Claire, Christian, Ilana et. al and ??

#245. Posted by: Skipper at March 20, 2010 1:44 PM

Re: Production errors and TPTB don't know where we are going

I think part of the problem with production errors is that DamCar are in LA, while the show is shot in Hawaii. Even if they perfectly describe in their scripts what they want to see in the finished product, the people filming the scripts do not not every detail of where we are going or how significant something that is minor in one episode is meant to resonate throughout the series. For example the original script called for Charlotte's DOB to be in 1971. The people in Hawaii thought that Rebecca Mader didn't look that old and asked to change it to 1979 (Mader's actual birth year), without realizing that the change would mess up a future episode's continuity. I'm sure there are plenty of things that are not scrutinously double checked because we, the audience, were never meant to see it. Like the date on the sonogram or the profile of the man in the cabin. Do I wish they were perfect in every execution? Yes. But I think over all they do a pretty good job on the continuity front for a show this complex taking place in so many locations and time periods (and not filmed or shown in chronological order).

As for how much did the producers know, and when? Well I think there are a lot of things that had their seeds planted in season one that are still relevant. The backgammon games, the black and white stones with Adam and Eve, Montand's arm...

Are there storylines they started and didn't make it to the end? Sure, actors get arrested, go through growth spurts, get hired full time on other shows...characters reach the end of their story arcs or fail to connect with the audience or overall plot. Others (no pun intended) knock their initial scenes out of the park and become more important.

Sure the initial script had Jack dying. It also was described as "Melrose Place meets Survivor". Once DamCar and JJ Abrams reimagined the whole thing (all before filming the pilot), that went out the window and the Island's basic mythology was born.

Did they know then every line of dialogue we'd hear for 6 seasons? Of course not. But they knew the ending we'd be heading towards. Will they answer every question the viewers have? No, but if it is important to the main characters, they will. And don't for a second think the side flashes are unrelated to the answers.

#246. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 20, 2010 3:17 PM

Cabin note

Just watched the bit where Hurley finds the cabin and TPTB do not indicate as ash ring nor does Hurley see it.

You are right Ealgumby, the loose ends may never tie up but I am hoping that some do. I think things like the cabin may pan out to make sense in the end. And Skipper and Undaunted are doing the same thing I am . All those "Yes,buts" to think of. It could be they lied to us about MIB being smokey.

Aside - I foolishly went out to tackle the garden in yesterday's lovely spring weather - sorry undauntid - and threw my back out. Which is why I am sitting and Lost gathering on a beautiful Saturday.

#247. Posted by: berkyo at March 20, 2010 3:29 PM

After Sun and Frank met up with Christian on the big island, where did Sun go and who was the first person she encountered on the island? I'm completely brain dead on this and don't have time to re-watch the shows.

And going back over that not asking questions between Claire and Kate, why wouldn't Sun ask where everyone has been when she finally meets up with them again on the beach?

#248. Posted by: pebspostal at March 20, 2010 3:45 PM

Just came back to get caught up on late postings and must say there is some good stuff, well written and well thought out, in there. A strange thought has occurred to me. What fun it would be to be a writer on this show and to join, anonymously, a blog like this and sprinkle it with teasers or false clues. I don't want to sow seeds of mistrust, but it was an intriguing idea and would that not be a kick? And if it were to be so, what should such a contributor do when it is all over? Apologize? Crow? Carry his or her secret to the grave?

#249. Posted by: August Paul at March 20, 2010 4:16 PM

August Paul (#249) has suggested a somewhat titillating supposition that maybe a LOST writer would cruise blogs about the show and sprinkle in teasers or EVER GET IDEAS from the participants banter . . . Well, if that were to happen, I’m sure that they would certainly pick out THIS BLOG SITE over ALL the others because . . . well, we’re obviously the brightest and the best there is . . . or at least, we’d like to think so.

Now, no offense to the other 14,694 blog sites around the world associated with conversations about this TV show, but I think I know how to find out if some LOST writer is perusing OUR “MAC-DADDY” site. We, in turn, should PLANT A TRICK PHRASE that is so dynamic, so gripping, so fervent and appealing, as to capture that writer’s imagination in such a burning and obsessive manner that he or she is COMPELLED, yes, has such an inner urgency and desire to act upon that byword, locution, verbiage, yes, even maxim - that it becomes the HALLMARK CATCHPHRASE for the next eight episodes of this series . . . .

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you . . .

AAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


And now, blog-mates . . . we have but to wait and listen . . .

#250. Posted by: davidrh at March 20, 2010 4:54 PM

@248. pebspostal: "why wouldn't Sun ask where everyone has been when she finally meets up with them again on the beach?"

Why would she? She knows where they have been. The only thing she needs to ask them is where Jin is.

#251. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 20, 2010 5:18 PM

FenwayBen @251 Agreed, but did she necessarily know that they were back from 1977? And what was that long journey that Christian Shepard referred to? Did I miss something here? (I miss lots of stuff.) It looks more like the rest took a "long" journey all the way back from 1977. Granted, the whereabouts of Jin are a lot more important to Sun than any other question that might pop into her head.

#252. Posted by: August Paul at March 20, 2010 5:33 PM

@ Berkyo: "I foolishly went out to tackle the garden in yesterday's lovely spring weather - sorry undauntid" This is oklaschitzyhoma...yesterday was a lovely spring day here too! Sorry your back hurts.

#253. Posted by: undauntid at March 20, 2010 5:50 PM

OK, I'm just hanging around waiting til time to go out to dinner and I went back and looked at the Onion spoof of Lost Fans noted on this blog in January. Then I looked at the comments and noticed one from Cecil, something about 42 being the largest of the "special" numbers and I suddenly flashed. Wasn't 42 the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy? Maybe I didn't flash... just had a brain wart?

#254. Posted by: August Paul at March 20, 2010 6:02 PM

#246. FenwayBen: Stubs, plot continuity, etc.:
Seeing as how that's a perpetual topic of discussion around here, it's apparent that we all have strong views on it. I think there are certain things we'd all like to have explained, & we all have individual things that each of us would like to have explained but that may not matter to someone else. For example, while it's almost certainly not an important plot point, I really would like to hear an explanation for Kate's horse, especially as TPTB placed the horse in the undead category w/Yemi & Christian. But I imagine that will remain a mystery...

#247. berkyo: I'm sorry to hear about your back! Having done that myself several times in the last couple of years, I can relate...I hope you're feeling better & up & around again soon.

Unrelated, but I just have to brag a little...Miss Longthought was first chair trombone in the elementary all-county band today. : )

#255. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 20, 2010 6:41 PM

^ Congrats!

And Berkyo, feel better soon!

#256. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 20, 2010 8:13 PM

@242/surefoot - "does anyone know if it is the same knife that Richard showed Locke as a child?"

No, it's not the same knife.

I'm shocked. ;)

Actually, I am in shock, NCAA-wise ... Nova & KU both out ... now THAT'S a shock!

#257. Posted by: ealgumby at March 20, 2010 8:24 PM

^ It's great seeing some small schools get some wins, here's hoping the tournament keeps giving them at large bids.

#258. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 20, 2010 8:49 PM

@250 davidrh proposed:

>but I think I know how to find out if some LOST writer is perusing OUR “MAC-DADDY” site. We, in turn, should PLANT A TRICK PHRASE that is so dynamic, so gripping, so fervent and appealing, as to capture that writer’s imagination in such a burning and obsessive manner that he or she is COMPELLED, yes, has such an inner urgency and desire to act upon that byword, locution, verbiage, yes, even maxim - that it becomes the HALLMARK CATCHPHRASE for the next eight episodes of this series . . . .

>Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you . . .

>AAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

>And now, blog-mates . . . we have but to wait and listen . . .

I think I already heard that one on "You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown"

#259. Posted by: Cecil at March 21, 2010 1:06 AM

>255 Alaïs_Longthought bragged:

>Unrelated, but I just have to brag a little...Miss Longthought was first chair trombone in the elementary all-county band today. : )

Congratulations to Miss Longthought! An elementary school trombonist? Are her arms long enough for the low notes?

Cecil Rose, who had two trombonist brothers, one of whom has made his living with it for the last forty years, though Cecil was an indifferent Frenh Horn, himself.

#260. Posted by: Cecil at March 21, 2010 1:12 AM

An indifferent typist as well - make that "French" horn.

#261. Posted by: Cecil at March 21, 2010 1:14 AM

Congratulations to Miss Longthought! An elementary school trombonist? Are her arms long enough for the low notes? #260. Posted by: Cecil

Believe it or not, there is a company that makes a "handle contraption" that fits on the trombone slide for elementary trombone players! And anyway, we're always careful not to write notes in 6th and 7th position for elementary bandsmen. It would kill sales! Not to mention little trombone people.

#262. Posted by: davidrh at March 21, 2010 7:46 AM

#256. FenwayBen, #260. Cecil, #262. davidrh:

Thanks! Last year she did all-county orchestra, but wasn't first chair. She started playing in 4th grade & yes, the extended trombone was longer than she was tall at that point. I had never heard of the "helper handle," though. I think Miss Longthought likes playing an instrument that's not a typical "girl instrument." : )

#263. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 21, 2010 12:27 PM

#250 davidrh - I really like your idea of secretaly implanting a codeword into a blogmate/lost writer/spy's subconscious mind. But I think it should be something more obvious like:

"My ONLY question is...did Anyone Notice The...aaaauuuugggghhhh?"

#264. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 21, 2010 1:12 PM

Just FYI if interested ...

Some screen snap pics of a few recently discussed items:

Various knife images:
http://tinyurl.com/ybgqrpy

Ajira canoes from Hydra in different epis:
http://tinyurl.com/yldus59

Some things from the lighthouse:
http://tinyurl.com/yjca8oy

#265. Posted by: ealgumby at March 21, 2010 2:03 PM

re: ...if some LOST writer is perusing OUR “MAC-DADDY” site. ...PLANT A TRICK PHRASE that is so that it becomes the HALLMARK CATCHPHRASE for the next eight episodes of this series....
===========
tough to do - all the episodes are written - they are filming the final episode now.

#266. Posted by: Catch Frasier at March 21, 2010 3:18 PM

#266 Catch Frasier - We were talking about in our alternate reality. The one where we get all of our questions answered!

#267. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 21, 2010 3:48 PM

We were talking about in our alternate reality...
==========
So was I. I just called "Good Robot Productions" in our alternate reality and they confirmed all of those scripts are written - and they are getting ready to wrap filming. (Turns out that Claire is the only one who survives the final battle scene. The crazy helmet hair saved her life when Smoke Monster tossed her off the top of the Lighthouse).

#268. Posted by: Catch Frasier at March 21, 2010 4:29 PM

darn!

#269. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 21, 2010 5:26 PM

Thanks for checking.

#270. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 21, 2010 5:28 PM

@266. Posted by: Catch Frasier, et al
Doesn't matter if the scripts are written, the actors are surely reading everything we write & they can ad lib. Some of the best lines ever are ad libbed. My fave: Free Enterprise, Sean: "Robert was cooking. Like with a pan & fire!"
But I vote NO on "AAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" simply because it's probably already been copied by every other forum. How about, "Just answer the question!!!!!!!" - repeated until someone actually answers it.

#271. Posted by: hurling at March 21, 2010 7:07 PM

Whoo-hoo! American Men win Paralympic Hockey Gold. Best ever hockey game in the history of the winter games. Canadian fans (and team) not heard from for days.

#272. Posted by: Oly Gold at March 21, 2010 8:25 PM

#250. Posted by: davidrh
ROTFLOL

#254. Posted by: August
you are correct. Do you remember what the question was?

#265. Posted by: ealgumby
Thanks. Looks like dif knives and dif rags.

back is much better, thanks for the good wishes.

#273. Posted by: berkyo at March 21, 2010 8:34 PM

it seems that most of us enjoyed this episode,although it started differently from the normal start,
no - "previously on lost" deep voice guy,
straight into the action,
thats why i agree with mac that this was a moving the pieces episode,
i thought the battle to win the ultimate prize (the island )
would be a huge gun battle or hand to hand combat,
but it now seems that the battle is psychological & very measured by both sides.
i would love to see a printed copy of these rules that apply to certain characters.

#274. Posted by: san at March 21, 2010 10:10 PM

#272. Posted by: Oly Gold

As a Canadian I would like to say congrats to your team! (see, that is how MATURE fans respond to a win by the opposing team!) ;P

#275. Posted by: surefoot at March 21, 2010 10:13 PM

@275. surefoot: Thanks! Sorry your guys could only manage fourth place...

#276. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 21, 2010 10:18 PM

#275. surefoot: Amen to that! : )

#277. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 21, 2010 10:25 PM

Berkyo@273 I seem to recall that the question asked of the most powerful computer in the universe was something like what is the meaning of life, the universe and everything or close to it. The computer worked for 3 million years and then came up with the answer 42. But in a later book, I seem to recall that Arthur Dent found a significant scrap of paper that asked what is 9 times 7? No other clue was given about the significance of this question or its relationship to 42. Which is why I loved that book. Just hit some arcane error in my visual basic program and would have gone to bed depressed were it not for this blog which brings me back to reality. How pathetic is that?

#278. Posted by: August Paul at March 21, 2010 11:02 PM

I was looking thr that auction site of LOST stuff(mentioned above) and noticed the handwritten stay of execution from Ben. I don't recall seeing that in the show. Does anyone else?

Isabel,
I hereby commute Juliets sentence. exicution is off of the table.

The normal rules do not apply here. I will however order that Juliet be marked and I suggest that Tom carry out this order.

Ben

spelling and caps seem kinda odd.
http://tinyurl.com/yz5uaet

#279. Posted by: mtncbn at March 21, 2010 11:03 PM

Per the URL in my 279, if you go to the lost auction preview (the listing of all the items), can anyone tell me the meaning of hero in many of the listings?

#280. Posted by: mtncbn at March 21, 2010 11:21 PM

@279. mtncbn: We saw the note, I don't think we were ever able to read what it said though.

#281. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 21, 2010 11:31 PM

@281 FenwayBen I agree, thanks

My question about 'hero' -- It's used in the other auctions on this site, and other auction sites that sell tv and movie memorabilia. I still have no idea of the meaning. Maybe it is an acronym?

#282. Posted by: mtncbn at March 21, 2010 11:43 PM

I was just watching Season 3's "I Do." Back in the bear cage days, Danny makes the comment that 'Shepherd wasn't even on Jacob's list.'

#283. Posted by: pebspostal at March 22, 2010 12:49 AM

@282/mtncbn:

A “hero” prop is a prop that has been identified as being directly used in the show for a specific scene or a specific episode. “Hero” props are generally of higher quality, durability and functionality. They feature finer details, as such props may be meant for—or have been used in—close-ups.

#284. Posted by: welh at March 22, 2010 10:00 AM

#278. Posted by: August Paul

I think that is right. LOL. I know it was not the correct statement to equal 42. LOL what a great series. I am sorry that he is not with us anymore. Have you read his mysteries? They are also very good. Same kind of humor. Why doesn't some one copy him?

Do you read Ack Attack on Lost? She has a screwy thought process too and I LOL every paragraph.

This is from her Lost blog on Recon.I thought it was very clever and did not get it until 3/4 through it.

"Sawyer: You and me are Outlaws, Kate.

Kate: You’re a Confidence Man, I was Born to Run.

Sawyer: Whatever the Case May Be, I can’t get Left Behind again.

Kate: Look, Whatever Happened,
Happened. Just don’t trust Locke okay?

Sawyer: You trusted me as LaFleur. Do you trust me now?

Kate: I Do.

Sawyer: Then it’s Every Man for Himself.
Kate: …Eggtown."

#285. Posted by: berkyo at March 22, 2010 11:31 AM

@272 Congrats on the Gold Medal, heard it was an excellent game. Canada didn't play well enough to win, too bad! oh well there is alway next time :)

Re: Richards backstory, its been mentioned in the past but not recently, do anyone else think Richard is not from the Black Rock but further in the past, ie. Egypt? I sure do.

Also its really bugging me what FLocke said to Claire when he pulled her off Kate "This is completely inappropriate" sounds like something you'd say to a teenager or an employer to an employee...FLockes speech and mannerisms are strange and almost *formal*

The hand holding and hugging also seem so out of character and very childlike and I know I wasnt the only one to think that Claire was going to take Kates gun and attack.
-Maybe it was to give Kate was she *needed*?? forgiveness, acceptance, make her feel wanted and part of that group???

#286. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 22, 2010 1:46 PM

Biggest LOST question that has to be answered this season.

HOW DID CHARLIE KNOW THE TUNE TO PLAY ON THE PIANO IN THE LOOKING GLASS?

This has to be answered.

By the way. Where's Desmond? he's been real absent all season. Is he going to remain hidden then ride in to save the day at the last minute?

#287. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 22, 2010 2:03 PM

@286, about Richard:

I have kept the possibility of Richard pre-dating the Black Rock open as well, despite the obvious hint we got earlier, when he was fidgeting with the ship in the bottle.

But watching him in the Black Rock wreck, with the chains that Flocke referenced to earlier, I'm pretty sure that's how he came to the Island.

I guess, the longer it takes for Desmond to show up this season, the more dramatic his involvement with the plot will be. Same goes for Aaron. I'm betting at least one of them is on Widmore's sub.

#288. Posted by: Mischa at March 22, 2010 2:35 PM

Tue. Lost is 6 minutes longer than usual! Yay, extra content.
Make sure to set recorders appropriately.

9pm to 10:06pm

#289. Posted by: mtncbn at March 22, 2010 2:55 PM

One of the treats of listening to Jorge Garcia's podcasts, especially the one for "Dr. Linus" in which Michael Emerson was a guest, is seeing quite dramatically that the actors have no more clue where the series is going than we do, and engage in all the same speculations we do in trying to anticipate the direction the plats will take.

#290. Posted by: Cecil at March 22, 2010 2:58 PM

An interesting comment from Michael Emerson on Jorge's podcast: "About every three or four episodes I get a scene where the writer's directions (about Ben Linus) say "We've never seen him so earnest and truthful before."

#291. Posted by: Cecil at March 22, 2010 3:15 PM

@289 mtncbn waerned us:

>9:00pm to 10:06pm

Thanks for the warning but I've gotten in the habit of providing some overlap on recordings anyway, because ABC has always had a habit fo going a few minutes extra anyway, and even when they didn't plan to sometimes American Idol ran long and Lost was unnofficially shoved back.

So I always set the DVR to go a few minutes extra (my standard is five, so I might have missed a little) and then trim the epidoses at the same time I take out the commercials before dubbibng to DVD.

#292. Posted by: Cecil at March 22, 2010 3:21 PM

Berkyo@285 - If I read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, I have forgotten it. I only recognize the title. In fact, while the first books were side splittingly funny, they began to wear on me. Along the same lines, I don't know if I would want another year of "LOST" as heretical as that may sound. If you haven't read any of Jasper Fforde's books, you and other "LOST" fans might find them interesting as well. Like "LOST" they are bizarrely strange.

#293. Posted by: August Paul at March 22, 2010 4:11 PM

@285, berkyo: "Why doesn't some one copy him?"

Because copying another author never works? That being said, last year a sixth book in the Hitchhiker's to the Galaxy series appeared called "And another thing..." written by Eoin Colfer. It was okay I guess. No classic DNA, but I was entertained as long as it lasted.

Back to Lost. Some posts above there was a discussion about who was in Jacob's cabin during the previous seasons, Jacob or MIB. I'm positing that it was a third person/entity. Who, you ask? Well, Christian of course, or at least the entity we've seen taking the form of Christian. Let's have a look at why I am saying this.

First of all I am going to assume that all apparitions of Christian were the same entity. If that's not the case, then everything goes.

I think the following things we can be fairly certain of (unless they are those infamous continuity errors):

-MIB has a hard time getting of the Island and presumably wasn't even capable of getting of the Island before the events of the season 5 finale.

-Jack saw Christian off Island during his time as an O6'er.

Hence Christian is not MIB. This was also suggested by Claire distinguishing between her "father" and her "friend" a couple of episodes ago.

So, is Christian Jacob then? If I remember correctly we have not seen a confirmed instance of Jacob taking on the form of death people, so if Christian is indeed Jacob that means Jacob has an ability we don't know about yet. Also, Ilana said that someone had been using Jacob's cabin. Who do we know have been using the cabin? Claire and Christian. So who can this "someone else" be?

-MIB
-Claire
-Christian
-The owner of the eye that Hurley saw in "The Beginning of the End"
-Someone else completely

MIB seems unlikely, since I think there was still ash around the cabin I think (?) when Locke met Christian and Claire there. Claire is definitely a candidate to be the "someone else". She could have broken the circle of ash for her "friend". Unless Jacob was hanging out with MIB's friends in his cabin, it seems unlikely that Christian is Jacob. And who's eye did Hurley see? It was before Claire vanished, but whoever it was, (s)he was no longer there when Locke visited the cabin and met Christian and Claire and so must have been long gone by the time Ilana noticed that "someone else" was using the cabin. So the prime suspects for being "someone else" are Claire and Christian. Which all in all suggests that Christian in not Jacob.

What have we seen the Christian-apparition do? (yay for Lostpedia)

-He led Jack to the caves. Was that his goal, or a side-effect?

-Jack heard his voice over the intercom in the Hydra saying "let it go". This could have been apparition-Christian, manipulation by The Others, or just Jack going crazy (well, that last one goes for a lot of the apparitions).

-He appears in Jacob's cabin, first just before Hurley sees the unknown eye and later with Claire where he tells Locke to move the Island.

-Later he appears to Locke again stressing that he himself, i.e. Locke, should move the Island. Why? If Christian is Jacob you could think that he's trying to manipulate Locke in getting his precious Candidates back to the Island. But then why send Locke and not someone who's more convincing? If Christian's MIB this could be an elaborate plan to get Locke killed and back on the Island (how could he know this would work?), but we've already ruled out the possibility that Christian is MIB to a high degree of certainty. Christian did tell Locke to "say hi to my son". Is he really Christian and did he want to get Jack back to the Island to prevent him falling off the wagon?

-Christian was the one who told Michael that he could "go now", just before he blew up together with the freighter. That sounds like a very Jacob-y thing to do, especially in the light of what we learned two weeks ago about the "gift of Jacob",

-Christian appeared to Sun and Frank in one of the Barracks. He showed them the Dharma picture with the Ajira Foomies in it and then told Sun that she had to go to Ben's old house to wait for Locke. This can again go either way. If Christian is MIB or working with him, he might have been trying to recruit Sun. If he's Jacob or working with him he might have hoped that Sun would see through Flocke's disguise and prevent him from killing Jacob. But if that's the case, he could have been more direct. And if he's none of the above, a separate entity with its own agenda? Then I don't know why he did, what he did. If he's really working in Jack's interest, perhaps he hoped that by showing Sun that the Ajira Foomies had foomed back to the seventies and by bringing her in contact with MIB she could figure out a way to bring them all, including Jack, back. Anyway, whoever he is, he turned out to be right. Jin is with Flocke's group now, so if Sun would still be with Flocke, she would be with Jin as well.


So, who is Christian? MIB seems very unlikely because of his off-Island appearance (again, unless this is a continuity error). Most of his appearances however do seem more compatible with him being on MIB's team and not on Jacob's team (with the possible exception of his appearance to Michael): sending Locke off-Island, appearing to Claire who is clearly in team Flocke, sending Sun to Flocke, perhaps breaking the ash circle around the cabin (or having Claire do it) etc. So my guess is he is a separate entity from MIB and Jacob, but probably working for MIB. He might have his own agenda, but we know so little about him and what we know seems mostly to line up with what's probably MIB's agenda.

And what is he? A reanimated corpse? And which corpse? Christian's or missing ALT Christian's? We have not had any confirmation of anyone on the show coming back from the death, do we? All the other`undead' we've seen are either very probably (???) manifestations of MIB (Yemi, Alex, Locke) or were probably not dead to begin with (Mikhail) or it's even unclear wether they are really the same animal as the original (Kate's horse) and not just a horse that happens to wander the Island.

So, any ideas? Is Christian MIB's son (or daughter) perhaps? That would explain why he seems to be working with MIB (finally someone without daddy issues!) and why he appears as a death person (that surely must be heritable), without resorting to the unsubstantiated claim that death people are coming back to life. It might even explain the fertility problems on the Island, come to think of it. What if that's Jacob's way of preventing MIB from pulling a trick like that (fathering a kid) a second time? I'm starting to drift off even further into speculation territory. Time to stop and post this already long ramble.

#294. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 22, 2010 8:57 PM

@287. ALEX ANGEL: He knew because the cute red head told him what song to play before she died.

#295. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 22, 2010 10:33 PM

Here's one to ponder ...

Near the beginning of last season's "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" we see a shot of John Locke's coat, tie, and shoes he had on in the coffin, followed by a pan to Flocke standing barefoot in the surf. Of course we did not know it was "Flocke" at the time.

Later we see Flocke back in his old jungle garb, wearing brown boots ... clearly he ditched the coffin clothes. In "The Substitute" we see Locke's body being buried, fully clothed in his funeral outfit.

Here are screen snaps that show what I'm talking about:

http://tinyurl.com/yd8sa69

So my question is ... when Smokey materializes as Flocke, including clothing, and then discards various items like the shoes, how does that work? I mean, are the shoes really shoes if he takes them off and leaves them on the beach, or are they still somehow "essence of Smokey" and capable of turning into something else? If he leaves the clothes behind, is he leaving part of himself behind as well? Or is he an entity of energy which is somehow manufacturing Flocke's body (and clothes), but they aren't really "him" so can be left behind like the shoes on the beach?

I know, thinking about it too much ... it's a detail the writers do not expect viewers to debate. Still though ...

#296. Posted by: ealgumby at March 23, 2010 12:44 AM

Regarding the sightings of Christian, I think the first sighting, and the first scene of the show chronologically is when Christian tells Vincent to wake Jack up. That would mean whoever or whatever Christian is, he took over the body immediately after the crash.

There was a comment way back about something in the pilot episodes that was missed by the viewers. Did we ever figure out what that was?

We really don't know what Jacob and the MIB are either. Maybe those 'bodies' came from the ship. I'm leaning towards the Black Rock not being a slave ship but a ship filled with more people listed in the lighthouse, more of Jacob's candidates.

I also agree that there is a third entity involved here somehow. I higher authority.

This show needs to end so I can find my life again. My whole family is sick of me talking about it.

#297. Posted by: pebspostal at March 23, 2010 1:24 AM

My hubby was on Facebook last night and read a theory that made me go hmmmm...

What if the MIB is Magnus Hanso? Don't know if this question has been discussed here. I don't remember it but my apologies if it has.

I thought it was an interesting idea. I can't wait for the Richard epi tonight!!! TGIT!

#298. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 23, 2010 9:03 AM

@ealgumby: I can't imagine MIB ducking behind a bush to change clothes... I think he does "project" himself as Locke, including that dirty old t-shirt with man-boobs :)

@pebspostal: Way back in one of our discussions about a Ben episode, wasn't it suspected that Ben's telescoping baton was lying on the ground next to Jack in the opening shot of the pilot?

Woo-hoo! It's Tuesday!! And tonight, we're gonna get old-skooolll, Black Rock style, pirating and pillaging and maybe a MIB/Jacob cameo? Oh, goody!! (That's just speculation, not a spoiler.)

#299. Posted by: Clementine at March 23, 2010 9:46 AM

Wow, the last ten or so comments have my head spinning! So much to think about!
The comment about the FLocke's clothes really got me thinking and there might be something to it. Yes, I noticed the moobs, too! lol
Can't wait for tonights ep. I am curious as to RA's origin. We are lead to believe he's from the pirate ship but another comment mentioned he could be from Egyptian times (eyeliner and his initials RA)
Great comments all!

#300. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 23, 2010 10:24 AM

Any one got a theory why Flocke took his shoes off for the outrigger trip to the main island? And were they still his funeral shoes? Maybe he didn't have deck shoes and didn't want to scuff up the finish on the outrigger ;-)

#301. Posted by: mtncbn at March 23, 2010 11:26 AM

TGIT! And also having a dish so I can watch the show hours earlier than local time. then the wait for the reset of the continent to catch up so we can all post/discuss.

I am so glad for this site, as my circle of friends do not watch, or if they do don't want to discuss in any detail (I know, I know, maybe I need some new ones )

#302. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 23, 2010 11:29 AM

lost2theworld et al,

I’m liking where this is headed…

What if Magnus Hanso was successful with his time travel experiments and realized Valenzetti was right and he has until 12/21/12 to fix things? He only needs to get it right once...everything else is progress.

What if MH is the daddy of Jacob and MIB? And they’re just a couple of sparring omnipotent omniscient omnipresent brats. Explains a lot of daddy issues…

What if MH was the “Help Me…” guy in the cabin? And he put the ash ring around the cabin to keep his ungrateful kids out? Wonder if that ash is available on eBay...

What if MH knew the secrets of Smoky-ism and was Christian and Kate’s horse? That is to say, not Christian’s and Kate’s horse, but Christian comma and Kate’s horse.

What if MH is the unseen force, the TRUE man behind the curtain?

What if today was Tuesday and I didn’t have to engage in all of this silly What if-ing…?

Hot Damn! Today is Tuesday.

Never mind.

#303. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 23, 2010 11:33 AM

I need help - did I miss something?

@297 "Regarding the sightings of Christian, I think the first sighting, and the first scene of the show chronologically is when Christian tells Vincent to wake Jack up."

I just started re-watching the show from Season 1, Epi. 1, and there's no "Christian telling Vincent". Is there some other source I missed? Mobisode? Other??

Help much appreciated

#304. Posted by: Shannon at March 23, 2010 11:37 AM

@298/lost2theworld - re Facebook "MIB is Magnus Hanso" theory

I'm not on Facebook :), but Alaïs_Longthought saw that yesterday as well ...

Alvar Hanso (his character from the orientation video) looks more like Jacob to me than MIB ... assuming Alvar looks anything like his great grandfather, Jacob might make more superficial physical sense as Magnus Hanso.

What about the DeGroot connection? Could MIB be the as-yet-unnamed great grandfather of Gerald DeGroot? Hanso & DeGroot, both Dutch names, right? Shipmates on the Black Rock perhaps?

BTW, what ever happened to Gerald and Karen DeGroot? Adam and Eve maybe? Or (more likely) never to be referred to on the show again?

#305. Posted by: ealgumby at March 23, 2010 11:56 AM

Oh well, Hanso is Danish, not Dutch ... should've looked it up first!

Also, I realize Jacob's name is Jacob, not Magnus, but thought maybe Jacob could be a nickname (Sting or Bono anyone?), middle name (I know unlikely), or just taking upon a new name given his change of status to semi-immortal whatever he is ...

Still think Jacob looks like Alvar. ;)

#306. Posted by: ealgumby at March 23, 2010 12:50 PM

@304, Shannon: I think it was in one of the webisodes iirc.

@305/306, ealgumby: I just realized that "groot" in Dutch and "magnus" in Latin both mean "great". Hmmm.... I'm probably way late to this particular party, but since you were trying to connect the two...

#307. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 23, 2010 1:06 PM

#296. Posted by: ealgumby
I know, thinking about it too much ... it's a detail the writers do not expect viewers to debate. Still though ...

Yes. Don't get bogged down like me. LOL Continue reading to see the mess in my head.


#294. Posted by: Plain Simple

Your ramblings have made me side with MIB is NOT Christian and that they- Christiian and Claire are working together as a family to get Jack to do something to save the world. Are they working with Jacob? I don't know. Maybe Jacob choose Jack's dad too.

There was a speech early on that I posted about a looooong time ago. Speech is at the end of this. I had, back in season 4, thought that all that has happened on the island has happened before and it will repeat until it has corrected to the universes wishes. ( I had just read about the so called appearance of Ben's death baton near Jack in the opening scene)

The reason the losties don't rememeber looping is the same reason that the losties in the sideways world don't remember the island or can't make the connection. Some of them seem to have an inking. I suggest that the sideways world is one of the times the loop is reapeating in different ways to see which one is correct. They are not alternate realities in that the whole of history is different for everybody, just alternate loops of the same time period for the losties lives. Does that make sense?

I had originally thought the losties would KNOW they were reliving time for a specific outcome and they would try to achieve it. But maybe Jaocob ,needs them to use free will and "You have a choice" doesn't let them know they are looping so that they make the right choice (jacobs outcome at the end) on their own. Jacob believes that these chosen are the best chance to achieve the outcome he needs.

The speech was by Christian to Jack and here it is. All cowboys have daddy issues
"CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: I know I have been hard on you, but that is how you make a soft metal into steel. That is why you are the most gifted young surgeon in this city. And this, this is a career that is all about the greater good. I've had to sacrifice certain aspects of my relationship with you so that hundreds and thousands of patients will live because of your extraordinary skills. [Long Pause.] I know it's a long, a long time coming. What happened yesterday, I promise you, will never happen again. And after all what I've given -- this is not just about my career, Jack. It's my life. " So he tells Vincent to wake Jack. He has work to do.

Do you think Christian was telling Jack that he was preparing him to be on the island? That Christian did not think Jack had it in him to succeed and so drank himself to death in despair? Only to find himself on the island where he can gather his children and fight .....What? Jacob? MIB? Work with Jacob?

#298. Posted by: lost2theworld
Hey! That's a good idea! I could go in antirely different direction now! LOL

#303. Posted by: ransomjackson
Did you ever play the Myst games? A Man who creates worlds and stores them in books. he has two evil sons who go and plunder those worlds. One son is eviler than the other. Maybe Lost Island is Myst world.

#308. Posted by: berkyo at March 23, 2010 1:07 PM

Re Flocke's wardrobe and the true identities of people who should otherwise be dead, why can this not be a mind thing of MIB and/or Jacob. He/they do not transform themselves into the living dead but, like The Shadow, have the power to "cloud men's minds" (remember the radio show was on when women were in the kitchen and didn't necessarily have minds to cloud) so that everyone thinks they are talking to a living dead but are really talking to a spiritual being, a disembodied essence, an IT. It could be that people see IT as Flocke wearing whatever they remember Locke or possibly Christian wearing. Even the black smoke disappears into a puff occasionally but presumably the essence of IT is somewhere about. IT even appears as a rustling in the trees or the whispering of many voices. If this were the case, Claire could be seeing just one IT, but someone who makes her think she is seeing Christian or Locke, ITs choice. Which would lead Claire to call IT father or my friend, depending on ITs choice. The IT of the MIB has proven to have at least two confessed forms, smoke and Locke.

That said, I rather like where Plain Simple is leading us @294 and I like some of the speculations on the relationship of MIB & Jacob to Hanso and others.

I am harboring the fear that tonight's big "Reveal" will be a little powder puff. Or, like the classic shaggy dog story, "Life is a fountain" but in this case "The Island is a Mystery" I hope to eat my words.

Egad--Could this whole "LOST" business be a colossal shaggy dog story? If so, I know some TV producers who will have to go into the witness protection program.

#309. Posted by: august paul at March 23, 2010 1:33 PM

Plain Simple @ 294 on whether Dead Christian Walking (DCW for want of another acronym) is not MIB and not Jacob but someone special. Can anyone remember if DCW appeared in any of the times prior to the crash of 815? He appeared to Sun and Lapidas but they were in 2004 while the rest were back in 1977. It would seem that this confirms the notion that someone has borrowed Christian's body or put on Christian's appearance. Isn't DCW always rather nicely dressed?

#310. Posted by: August Paul at March 23, 2010 1:41 PM

Maybe tonight's episode will put some steam back into the story engine, but I have been wondering where this is all heading: what is going to be the final payoff?

#311. Posted by: welh at March 23, 2010 2:21 PM

@310 August Paul:

I don’t recall exactly at one time Locke fell down the well, during the fooming, but I’m pretty sure it was before 1977. Christian appeared to him in the cave.

@307 Plain Simple:

The Dutch word groot does translate as great, but the word is used more commonly as big, large, tall. De Groot is a very common last name in Holland.

@294 Plain Simple:

Good post, and I tend to agree about Christian. Remember when he took Claire, that night in the jungle, and left Aaron? I mean, there has to be some significance to this kid, right? Christian has an agenda, whatever it is. So he had a good reason to leave Aaron to be found by the Lostees. Did he want him off the Island? Why? To protect him? From Flocke, perhaps? Does Flocke want to leave the Island, so he can get to Aaron? Why? What? How? Who??? Whatever :P

#312. Posted by: Mischa at March 23, 2010 2:37 PM

You all have taken the MIB/Magnus thing and run with it! That is why I love this blog. You're so smart.

I do like the whole tie everything back into Hanso/the Black Rock/Dharma etc. angle. The DeGroots as Adam & Eve? Nice! That would be awesome! Christian working in as another being but still tied to everything would be sweet.

I'll say it again...I hope we all don't watch 5/23 and say, "What the hell did I just spend the last 6 years of my life doing?! I have faith but I'm just sayin'...

#313. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 23, 2010 2:47 PM

Ethan's wife & child died in childbirth???!!! Do we know anything else about Ethan's wife?

(Thanks, Plain Simple @307 -- I just watched all the mobisodes).

#314. Posted by: shannon at March 23, 2010 3:51 PM

@297 pebspostal asserted:

>Regarding the sightings of Christian, I think the first sighting, and the first scene of the show chronologically is when Christian tells Vincent to wake Jack up.

Surely the first scene of the show, chronologically, is Jacob and MIB on the beach watching (presumably), the Black Rock sail in.

Arguably, it could alternatively be the scene where the FOOMERS see the intact Tawaret statue from the jungle - no way to tell which of these is first.

#315. Posted by: Cecil at March 23, 2010 4:10 PM

did ya'll know that The Black Rock is a real ship that disappeared in 1881? i'm sure you do....i've only been reading the blog for the last three seasons so i apologize from the bottom of my heart if it's been mentioned before. A friend of mine brought it to my attention today.

And the Crew (the actual historical crew are now characters in LOST. This seriously blew my mind):

Captain: *Magnus Hanso*
1st Mate: Alexander *Widmore*
2nd Mate: Clifford *Widmore*
Crew:
Robert Broughton
Johannes Bedell
*Richard Alpert*
*Jacob Deyer*
Daniel Linderman
Henrick Skeggs
Peter Thompson
Thomas Parys
Anthony Forster
*Miles Strom* ... yes i realize it's spelt differently
*Adam Monroe*...A man wearing a uniform labeled "Monroe" was one of the Others who aided Ellie in apprehending Daniel Faraday, Charlotte Lewis, and Miles Straume in 1954, during the time that the survivors were skipping through time.
Thomas Hetley
Henry Wingfeild
Conrad Strughold
John Poulter
Alvin Kurtzweil
Thomas Mettlewerk
Reginald Knolles
*Daniel Farraday*
Edward Jackman

so out of this list who is the MiB?

#316. Posted by: Ames at March 23, 2010 4:28 PM

Wild guess: John Poultergeist

#317. Posted by: welh at March 23, 2010 4:41 PM

@316/Ames - Black Rock

I do not see a winky, but kidding right?

Um, all of that "history" was created for "The Lost Experience" ARG ...

http://tinyurl.com/8v6ctz

"The narrative for the The Lost Experience was designed to be a parallel story line not part of the TV show. ... Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse first mentioned the ARG in the official podcast that the Hanso Foundation website, which was offline for several months (or in their words, 'down for remodeling')."

Neither TLE, nor any of the other various production "extras" associated with Lost (games, etc.) are to be taken as canon, and any info contained therein should be considered promotional material only.

Not joking, see no winky ...

Beware of what "real" (ahem) sites/info you may find on the web related to anything Lost ... example:

http://tinyurl.com/yd2qbv7

Pretty sure ( ;) ) this is a fake linkedin entry for "Gerald DeGroot, Chief Analyst at Hanso CW" ...

#318. Posted by: ealgumby at March 23, 2010 4:57 PM

@ealgumby - i'm not too proud to admit i could be douped... i loved the idea of TPTB taking a real historical event and molding it to their purposes.... too good to be true. i couldn't figure out this website... http://www.onentofl.com/magnushanso.html where i got the info. then fuel was added to my flame when i saw this...
http://www.coderetard.com/2008/12/02/black-rock-wreck-from-lost-found/

#319. Posted by: Ames at March 23, 2010 5:07 PM

@312, Mischa: "The Dutch word groot does translate as great, but the word is used more commonly as big, large, tall. De Groot is a very common last name in Holland."

While the common last name probably stems from the simple fact that the first person to adopt the name happened to be tall, it was common to use the same word to indicate greatness of leaders, like "Karel de Grote" for Charlemagne. Anyway, I just realized the connection mainly because I never thought about it before I guess, and thought it was a fun little tidbit.

@316, Ames: Have you got anything to back that up? After a bit of googling the only thing I came up with is a wikianswers page with the same list you have, but anyone could have put that there. I didn't find any other reference to the Black Rock being a real historical ship. And there are many things to throw doubt on this list. For example Conrad Strughold and Alvin Kurtzweil were characters from the X-Files (and perhaps there are more in this list). And if the Lost writers have been using names from this list, then why use Thomas Mittelwerk instead of Thomas Mettlewerk?

#320. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 23, 2010 5:09 PM

@ Ajira 316 Ames said:

>did ya'll know that The Black Rock is a real ship that disappeared in 1881? i'm sure you do....i've only been reading the blog for the last three seasons so i apologize from the bottom of my heart if it's been mentioned before. A friend of mine brought it to my attention today.

>And the Crew (the actual historical crew are now characters in LOST. This seriously blew my mind):

>Captain: *Magnus Hanso*
>1st Mate: Alexander *Widmore*
>2nd Mate: Clifford *Widmore*
.
.
.

And your source for this information is....?

#321. Posted by: Cecil at March 23, 2010 5:20 PM

Re: Did baby Miles spend any time on the island? Did young Charlotte?

(and from last week) Re: We learn that Ben and his alive-but-ailing father, Roger, were part of Dharma. They were on the island.


Yes, Miles and Charlotte were on the island, and yes Ben & Dad were on the island. They were all on the island pre-"The Incident" and therefore were all on the island before timelines were forked. Thus, regardless of timeline anything that happened pre-fork remains the same.

Miles was born on the island.
Charlotte spent time on the island.
Ben was on the island, got shot on the island, and was healed in the temple on the island.
All of this happened before the incident so is therefore common to both of the timelines.

#322. Posted by: Lax at March 23, 2010 5:32 PM

@322, Lax: "Thus, regardless of timeline anything that happened pre-fork remains the same."

Only... we don't know that for certain, do we?

#323. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 23, 2010 6:51 PM

I have been watching the series Millennium and Terry O'Quinn was on the show. One episode was entitled "walkabout" and several episodes talk about men of science vs. men of faith. I thought this was quite a coincidence. If you believe in them.

#324. Posted by: rviviano at March 23, 2010 7:21 PM

Hey lost2theworld, I almost forgot to say that Miles DID do a little bit of recon, didn't he? But not to the extent we thought it could be. I guess he still could be delving into "Sawyer" for Widmore. Gotta go get the tv warmed up - it's nearly time for final jeopardy!

#325. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 23, 2010 7:45 PM

@316. Ames: Linderman? Isn't he from Heroes?

#326. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 23, 2010 8:13 PM

@325 sayidisn'tso

Yep! I was right about the "re"con. I listened to the podcast from Darlton dated 3/11 and they even said that it was meant to have the two meanings. Yay me!

#327. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 23, 2010 9:00 PM

Ker-SPLASH!

What? Was that the sound of Lost jumping the shark?

No, thank Jacob, it was just the sound of the orca toying with the trainer! ... phew! ... uh, no wait ...

Actually, it WAS the sound of Lost jumping the shark ...

worst ... episode ... ever ... !!!

If anyone out there still thinks this was all planned from the beginning ...

Hey Damon, what did you promise the MIB if he kept you on-air while you LIED to your audience?

#328. Posted by: ealgumby at March 23, 2010 10:29 PM

Easy there elgumby... I may not be the intellect you are, but I thought this was one of the BEST epi's EVER. ****no spoilers**** here, but this epi ALSO kept the confusion going between good/evil etc. Loved it. (except no bunny references this time... WHA???)

#329. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 23, 2010 11:54 PM

@328

Was that really necessary?

Could you not keep together your scorn until Mac posted the review? Is your wrath really that important?

Poor form monsieur....

#330. Posted by: shikotee at March 23, 2010 11:55 PM

@328 ealgumby

I hear you... not happy

#331. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 23, 2010 11:58 PM

@330/shikotee - "Poor form monsieur"

Really?

Did I leave any spoilers?

Have I ruined your Lost experience somehow?

"What's the matter with the truth, did I offend your ears?"

#332. Posted by: ealgumby at March 24, 2010 7:33 AM