The Lost Blog

Key Points from "Ab Aeterno"

Season 6, Episode 9
Episode Air Date: 03/23/10

Point 1

Richard Alpert Man in Black Jacob

Let me apologize in advance for the things I'll surely miss. Subsequent viewings will undoubtedly uncover clues and developments from this dense episode, so I might break with tradition and add to the review in the days ahead. (Or not ... don't hold me to that.)

Anyway, here's a feeble first stab at the recap.

Richard Alpert -- better known as "Ricardo" to his friends in the late 1860s -- began life as a regular man. A working man, in fact. He and Roger Linus would have gotten along quite well (save for that gassing incident). Both were a little naive. Both were under-educated. Both fell under the spell of powerful entities. Both ... knew Ben?

Okay, so that line of thought fell apart. Alpert and Roger Linus have virtually nothing in common.

Let's ditch that and get to the important stuff. After getting a brain dump of Alpert backstory and island lore, here's what we now know about the Mysterious Mr. Guyliner:

-- He's originally from Tenerife. It's the largest of the Canary Islands. "Tenerife" is also Spanish for "cork." (No, not really.)

-- Alpert's story picks up in 1867, so if Richard was in his 30s or 40s at that point, that puts his current age in the 170-180 year-old range (remember, the island is still in 2007). Let's call it 175, just for kicks.

-- A twist of fate, and a bit of consumption, set Richard on his path to the island. The short version goes like this: In an attempt to procure medicine for his beloved, a woman named Isabella, he accidentally kills a Very Powerful Man. And because "Lost" just loves tragedy, it turns out Ricardo's murderous medicinal efforts were for naught because Isabella -- that ungrateful harpy -- goes and dies before he can sprinkle her with antibacterial powder. Richard is hauled off to jail, but he's saved at the 11th hour by two things: the English he's been practicing and the greedy needs of Magnus Hanso, captain of the Black Rock. (We never actually see ol' Magnus; his minion Whitfield does all the dirty work).

Of course, "saved" is a relative term on this show. What really happens is Richard swaps one bad outcome for another. Jacob lures the Black Rock to the island (we caught a glimpse of this in "The Incident"), the ship stages a dramatic landing (it wipes out 95 percent of the Taweret statue and somehow lands way, way inland), and then Richard spends an ungodly amount of time pulling at his chains and fending off wild boars. (Some have questioned if the ship we saw in "The Incident" is actually the Black Rock. This is the only screenshot I could dig up. It's inconclusive.)

And then there's that whole run-in with Smokey and has undead wife.

Yeah, about that. So Smokey / the Man in Black / the Artist futurely known as Flocke swoops in and kills everyone on the Black Rock ... except Richard. Smokey does his Polaroid thing -- scanning Richard for blemishes and sins -- and, for reasons unknown, Smokey allows Richard to live.

Post-Smokey, Richard remains chained to the Black Rock without food or water. And things get really, really bad when Isabella -- formerly dead Isabella -- appears in the Black Rock, attempts to free Richard, and then is dispatched to the hereafter (again) by Smokey.

So let's tally the emotional toll, shall we? Richard loses his wife ... twice; he commits manslaughter; he's imprisoned; he's sold into slavery; he's in a shipwreck; he watches everyone around him die; he's "read" by a pillar of smoke; and he's starved and thirsty. And all of that happens before the Man in Black appears in human form and tells Richard he's in Hell. Like, literal Hell. And the only way out is to kill the devil himself.

-- El diablo is, of course, Jacob. Or so the MIB tells our naive-and-broken Ricardo. See, Richard is actually MIB's first (attempted) assassin. Per the rules laid out in "The Incident" and in subsequent episodes, we know that MIB could not kill Jacob directly. What we didn't know is that, before Flocke convinced Ben to plant a knife in Jacob's chest, the Man in Black had tried this sort of business at least once before.

MIB was ultimately successful. It took a while, but he came through. But back in 1867, Jacob was a little faster and a little more aggressive. A little angrier, it would seem. And when Ricardo brandishes a dagger, Jacob kicks the snot out of him. (He does not, however, smudge his eyeliner.)

-- And then, in the end, Jacob gives Richard three things:

  1. A confusing description of the island involving old wine and a cork (more on that in Key Point 2).
  2. Eternal life (so Richard doesn't have to go to the real Hell).
  3. A job as his duly-appointed representative; the guy who intervenes in Jacob's silly experiments so Douchey McDouchealot doesn't get his hands dirty.

    So that's pretty much the story. But there's a couple other aspects and questions that deserve mention here:

    • Jacob claims that he cannot bring Isabella back, nor can he offer Richard absolution. Yet, he can grant eternal life, or some variation on it, and he can lure hundreds of people to a mystical island. Hell, Batman has better superpowers than this guy (and yes, I know Batman doesn't have superpowers ... that's my point).
    • The Man in Black gives Richard the exact same instructions Dogen gave to Sayid -- even down to the "don't let him speak" bit. Is this some sort of universal killing rule I don't know about? More importantly, do those instructions ever work? Sayid failed to kill Flocke. Richard failed to kill Jacob.
    • Picking up on something I noted earlier: Sometime between 1867 and 2007, Jacob mellowed out. The slightly stoned guy we've grown accustomed to was once a younger hothead who didn't take kindly to knives. He also had a wicked chip on his shoulder about "stepping in" to help the lab rats (i.e. "castaways") find salvation. He was cockier, too. He really didn't view the Man in Black as a threat -- even to the point of taunting him.
    • The Man in Black tells Richard he can ditch Jacob and join Team Evil whenever he likes. And at the end of the episode, Richard does just that. Granted, he quickly recants after Hurley delivers a message from dead Isabella, but couldn't Flocke simply ignore the back-track and force Richard into his evil plan? And what are the repercussions of Richard wearing Isabella's cross? Isn't that asking for it?
    • Finally, why did "Ricardo" bother changing his name to "Richard"? And I'm guessing "Alpert" wasn't his given name.

    Point 2

    MIB

    Now, for the cork business.

    To explain the island's true purpose and, by extension, the very forces of good and evil, Jacob turns to a prop ... just like Carrot Top would.

    He begins by showing Richard a bottle of wine. Imagine, if you will, that the wine sloshing about the sides of the bottle represents Hell (or evil, or malevolence, or your chosen form of unniceness). If it get out of the bottle, it'll spread like a virus. But if it's contained ... well, life might not be great, but it's still manageable.

    And what keeps the evil at bay? What keeps badness sloshing in its bottle?

    Why, a cork of course!

    "The cork is this island," Jacob says. "It's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs."

    Got that? The island is ... a wine stopper.

    And this leads to a whole bunch of questions:

    • Who created the cork in the first place?
    • If the island keeps a lid on evil by default, what's Jacob's role? Does he (well, did he) make sure it doesn't slip?
    • If the remaining candidates somehow find redemption, will that make the cork unnecessary? Put another way, what's the connection between Jacob's centuries of experiments and the perpetuation of evil?
    • Taking that a step further ... doesn't the black stone / white stone stuff suggest the answer lies in balance between good and evil rather than one triumphing over the other? And if that's the case, did Jacob actually want his experiments to succeed?
    • And what are we to make of the alternate timeline? The "cork" in that universe is no longer bobbing.

    Point 3

    Ilana

    Remember when Jacob visited Ilana in the hospital? It was all very mysterious ... with the speaking foreign languages and the bandages and the whatnot. Well, we saw an extended version of the same scene in the early moments of this episode. And in that we learn that Jacob charged Ilana with protecting the "remaining" six candidates (I found that word choice intriguing). We also see that Jacob's mere presence seems to heal Ilana. When he first appears, her face is almost entirely covered in bandages. Then, sometime later, she looks as we now know her. No signs of scarring at all. Handy!

    Point 4

    Island

    A few closing questions and observations:

    • Best Line: "Oh, this should be interesting." -- Ben, murmuring to himself just before Jack learns that Locke isn't dead.
    • Second Best Line: "If it's any conciliation, it's not exactly Locke." -- Ben to Jack.
    • Third Best Line (not clever, but relevant): "It's good to see you out of those chains" -- Man in Black to Ricardo.
    • Things I still don't understand: How did the Black Rock get so far inland? How did Isabella and her necklace get on the island? Was Isabella actually the Man in Black? And if so, does that mean he can take on the form of any dead person? And continuing that thread, who/what was Anthony Cooper? Who/what was off-island Christian Shephard (the guy who appeared to Michael on the freighter and Jack in Los Angeles)? We're nearly six seasons in and I still don't have the dead/undead rules sorted out.
    • I'm starting to think Sun isn't the "chosen Kwon." I know this has been discussed before, but six "remaining" candidates -- to steal Jacob's phrasing -- were foomed and/or donkey-wheeled to 1977: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer and Jin. You'll notice Sun isn't on that list. She got dumped in 2007 with Lapidus, Ben, Ilana and those poor suckers from Ajira 316.
    • Speaking of the chosen: we should start a pool. My money's on Hurley to assume Jacob's throne, but Sawyer might be the dark horse. Jack? Maybe. Seems kinda obvious though. Jin? He's got off-island responsibilities. And Kate? No friggin way. I am not comfortable with Flakey Katie guarding my cork.
    • Kudos to the eagle-eyed commenters who noticed last week that one of Widmore's rifle-toting goons is played by Fred Koehler -- aka Chip from "Kate & Allie."

    That's all I've got!

    Next Episode:

    "The Package" -- Stop giggling. This appears to be a Sun/Jin episode. Airs Tuesday, March 30, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

    All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

    yeah, first

    #1. Posted by: nidia at March 24, 2010 12:14 AM

    MIF!

    #2. Posted by: HearTheEko at March 24, 2010 12:14 AM

    ricardus running around in swarthy scoundrel clothes for 70% of the show? it looked like a bad, cheezy (queso) romance novel that fabio did not get the cover art for. "Ricardo la Fea"

    #3. Posted by: TanziTwo at March 24, 2010 12:19 AM

    I placed.

    #4. Posted by: dk at March 24, 2010 12:20 AM

    Oh, "hell" - not first...
    And no bunnies either. But glad to know (thanks to extreme closeup) RA's not a real maybeline guy but just born lucky with GREAT THICK body hair - including eyelashes.

    That aside - this episode was AWESOME !!

    #5. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 24, 2010 12:23 AM

    I think that we will find that the male viewers felt the episode was fluff, while the ladies dug it. I watched with my sister, and she really liked it.

    Myself - I'm just not amused at how the Black Rock took out the statue, and crashed on the island.

    And c'mon - if you crash on an island, would you not want to keep the prisoners/slaves so you could force them to do useful survival things?

    #6. Posted by: shikotee at March 24, 2010 12:28 AM

    Not sure about this epi.

    What is the meaning of the wine bottle being smashed?? It was said that the cork was keeping things inside but if the bottle gets broken then *hell* gets out...so what represents the bottle????

    #7. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 24, 2010 12:29 AM

    When we first see the Black Rock it was calm and just sitting out in the ocean. Unless that was another ship that was brought to the island either before or after the Black Rock incident.

    #8. Posted by: dk at March 24, 2010 12:32 AM

    @7 (lostncyberspace) I think the bottle represents the world that we see the Island in. It could be the reality/world we know or it could be in another dimension.

    Either way, I thought it was rather interesting that the MIB broke the bottle at the end. I half though he was going to run after Jacob and stab him. XD

    And as for the 'devil' I wanted to really believe the MIB for being the 'good' guy since it seems that Jacob is a little too smug. That and angels and demons are clothed in light, so just because Jacob wears and represents white doesn't necessarily mean he's good.

    Also, I wonder if Jacob and the MIB used to be on opposite sides at one point since Jacob (if we're to believe the MIB) stole his body. Hmmm.

    #9. Posted by: Silhouette at March 24, 2010 12:33 AM

    Mac said "Jacob claims that he cannot bring Isabella back, nor can he offer Richard absolution."

    That could have been "Can't" like "I'm unable to do it" or "Can't" like "I'm not allowed to do it." I had the sense it was the latter one...

    #10. Posted by: Geoff at March 24, 2010 12:33 AM

    I wondered at first how the Black Rock got so far inland, but on second watch the boat rammed the statue near its head.
    Had to be one hell of a wave they rode in on.

    And another thing i thought of was when last season finale when Jacob and MIB saw the Black Rock sailing towards the island, wasnt it during the day and calm seas? No hurricane type weather.
    so, was that really the Black Rock they were watching?

    #11. Posted by: day1lostfanatic at March 24, 2010 12:33 AM

    @8 (dk) I thought about that too but I'm sure it was a later time period, to show that they're still betting on human lives.

    I actually liked the CGI for this episode, it wasn't too bad. =) When the camera paned in on the name of the ship I thought it would read 'Black Pearl' for a moment hehe.

    #12. Posted by: Silhouette at March 24, 2010 12:35 AM

    Haven't read your review yet, Mac. But I am sure it is great!!

    I just wanted to say that Richard's laugh in the beginning was EPIC. =]

    This was a very "touching" episode. Ha.

    I think he and Ben are the best characters on the show. I'd say this episode lived up to our "Eventual Richard Episode" expectations.

    The ending was also epically amazing. Well done.

    In the beginning I wasn't sure if they confirmed the "hell theory" or not. I decided not to believe him.

    #13. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 12:39 AM

    The Black Rock ended up so far inland because the massive wave it was sailing on carried it inward. It's unclear whether that wave was a tsunami or a storm surge.

    #14. Posted by: Ricki Albert at March 24, 2010 12:40 AM

    Ughhhh....

    I get the feeling that there is going to be tons of complaining for this episode, and rightly so!

    Sure - we had high expectations, but it just struck me as sloppy.

    So - the doctor refuses to ride for half a day to visit Isabelle. Richard doesn't even describe what is wrong, and the Doc already has an expensive cure? But what bugged me even more is that Richard flees the scene, spends a half day returning, and is then captured instantly upon returning.

    How is this possible?

    #15. Posted by: shikotee at March 24, 2010 12:48 AM

    I'm sure there will be a lot of mixed feedback on this episode.

    Downside: the bad special effects of the tsunami wave which took off the top of the statue, and Nestor's highly uneven acting.

    Upside: this episode was a "fan episode"- not 100% necessary in the scheme of things, but a present to fans clamoring for Richard's backstory.

    Things we learned (I think):

    * Magnus Hanso was immediately killed in the shipwreck, so that ends any speculation about his role in future on-island affairs

    * Hurley actually does see dead people- not fake Smokey dead people, but the real deal. That helps add a lot of substance to his off-island Oceanic 6 visions of Charlie, Ana Maria, Eko, etc.

    * Any speculation that the classroom lesson in Dharmaville on volcanos is related to the demise of the Tawaret statue has now been officially squashed

    * MIB can take on the appearance of any dead person, not just those killed on the island or left unburied. This leads to the suggestion that it was MIB who first appeared as Ben's mom, as part of the overall loophole strategy

    * While impersonating a dead person, Smokey can touch and interact with the living- he's not just a phantom. Since we've twice heard Smokey Sounds around Christian's appearance, I think the evidence is strongly tilting towards MIB appearing as Christian

    * As a caveat to the above, perhaps we file Christian's off-island appearance to Jack in the hospital waiting room in the same file as Charlie appearing to Hurley and Isabella appearing near Richard- the deceased actively trying to give a "push" to the living

    * As a reverse of that last point, Smokey "robs" the living of their memories of the dead to engage in full-on emotional manipulation. Case in point: MIB appearing as Isabella and faking her abduction by Jacob to entice Richard into killing Jacob

    * The skips in time around the dislodged FDW were not random, but purposeful, and apparently controlled by MIB who needed Locke, et al to appear at specific places in time to create specific actions to work towards the loophole, manipulating Richard and Locke along the way

    * To Mac's question on the cross, I believe Richard was wearing the cross both in jail and on ship, which is how MIB was able to retrieve it

    #16. Posted by: Mizzed at March 24, 2010 1:02 AM

    Oh snap mac. You pulled a "jughead" moment... "How did Isabella and her necklace get on the island?"

    aaaaaauuuuugggghhhhhh!

    I can only hope people read the posts this far cause I'm sure someone's already answered that. If not, sorry I didn't - I'm on iPhone n it hard to Type rite now...

    #17. Posted by: Bunnylover at March 24, 2010 1:05 AM

    "..do those instructions ever work?"
    I think they don't matter. Ben wasn't given those instructions by Flocke and Jacob spoke to him before he plunged the knife into his chest. I believe what he said to Ben before the deathstryke was "what about you?"

    #18. Posted by: Carlos at March 24, 2010 1:08 AM

    GRAA, Mac!

    I personally loved this episode. I felt like we got a whole lot of background information that is setting us up for one epic climax, some sort of war between the devil and whatever the other side is.

    One thing I thought was pretty interesting in the episode was that Jacob was wearing an awful lot of black in a few scenes to be our MIW. Just interesting to me.

    As Hurley is my favorite character on the show, I really hope we get to see what is going on with him and these "abilities." For so long we were led to believe he was crazy, but the guy has got some major talents working for him. Could this be a result of Jacob's touch?

    As far as the wine bottle being smashed... I don't have a clue as to its significance yet... but that was some major foreshadowing.

    One question I had though... That sub Whidmore is on must be going really really slow.... 200 yards from the beach.... still no sign of it. Maybe next week....

    #19. Posted by: csmithfdub at March 24, 2010 1:09 AM

    GRAA, Mac!

    I would really like to know what brand of guyliner RA uses...neither sweating nor salt water budge those great lines... ; >

    I have to say that I found some parts of this episodes satisfactory, but others were roll-my-eyes moments. Satisfactory...finding out Richard's backstory, & how the Black Rock arrived on the island. Unsatisfactory...it requires a major suspension of belief to think that a small wooden sailing vessel would take out 95% of a large stone statue. It also requires major suspension to find said wooden sailing ship in the middle of the jungle, several hundred yards inland (if I heard MIB correctly, telling Richard he needed to walk 300 yards toward the beach), w/o any path of destruction leading to the ship. Any tsunami wave that's big enough to carry a ship inland would pretty much scour the surrounding vegetation.

    Side note: Supposedly TPTB said we were done w/flashbacks, yet Richard's story was presented in flashback form...but w/no swooshing noises. Hm?

    I did like Jacob's speech about wanting his candidates to make their own choices. It appears that in future times he veered away from that. I wonder why?

    In the scene w/Jacob & Ilana in the hospital, I noticed his black gloves, which others have commented on as having prevented him from directly touching Ilana. Did he directly touch, as in skin to skin, the 815 candidates? His touch seemed to work just fine through clothes on Richard, so it would seem that the gloves aren't really important & that it was just cold in whatever Russian locale Jacob was visiting Ilana.

    Why did Richard bury Isabella's necklace rather than wearing it? Why did he put it back on after she visited him through the offices of Hurley? And was anyone else reminded of the movie Ghost during this scene?

    What was the purpose of the priest selling Richard to Hanso? Why was it important that Richard spoke English if all he was going to do was to be chained in the hold?

    It appears to be somewhat contradictory that the logbook of the Black Rock states that its final voyage began in 1845, yet the crash took place in 1867 or 1868 (depending on how long Richard was in prison). I checked Lostpedia to see if this logbook date was from a non-canon source, but couldn't find anything definite one way or the other.

    Was Magnus Hanso still alive when the ship came to rest? Did his crew have time to bury him if he was dead before MIB/Smokey showed up, & put up a grave marker that would have lasted until the 1980s to be discovered by Inman or Radzinsky, who added that to the blast door map? If he was killed by Smokey, there shouldn't be any grave for Hanso.

    Does Jacob make his own wine? It appears that MIB doesn't have access to wine.

    #13. ilovebenjaminlinusxx: Richard's laugh:

    Agreed; that was an LOL moment for me! : )

    #20. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 24, 2010 1:15 AM

    Wasirite or what?
    "To Mac's question on the cross, I believe "Richard was wearing the cross both in jail and on ship, which is how MIB was able to retrieve it"

    Please posters spare us from any future repeat JWTB posts.

    And thank you mizzed for the first answer!

    I LOVE THIS BLOG !!

    #21. Posted by: BunnyLover at March 24, 2010 1:17 AM

    I think the storm was the ship passing through the outer region like Desmond did in the constant. From the island everything is calm, but from the ship it is a storm.

    #22. Posted by: Kevin at March 24, 2010 1:18 AM

    The article says: Jacob lures the Black Rock to the island (we caught a glimpse of this in "The Incident")

    The scene referred to had Jacob on the beach with the man in black watching the ship come in on a very beautiful, clear, and calm day. The Black Rock crashed onto the island in a storm of epic proportions as we saw in this episode.

    These two ships arrived at the island under very different circumstances. I don't see how we can assume them to be the same.

    #23. Posted by: Lax at March 24, 2010 1:22 AM

    Other, more philsophical meanderings, inspired by an epi with Very Big Philosophical Statements:

    The episode was titled "Ab Aeterno", latin for "since the beginning of time". While that can refer to Richard's seeming immortality, the larger suggestion may be that the struggle between Jacob and MIB is an eternal one.

    The metaphor of the wine in the bottle reminds me of Pandora's Box (originally Pandora's jar in the original Greek)- the struggle to contain (in Jacob's words) "malevolence, evil, darkness" from the world.

    My idea on why the 19th century Jacob seemed more violent and less serene is because while MIB is ancient and eternal, our particular "Jacob" may not be. It may be that every era needs a new "Jacob" to hold back the darkness- that each new Jacob struggles with their role, eventually finds wisdom and Dharma, and passes on when they find a successor. Just a thought....

    Jacob described his statue as "no one comes in unless I invite them in"- the statue is a metaphor for the island itself. Consequently the selection of the deity Tawaret- a symbol not only of fertility but also the consort of Apep, the God of Evil. In that role, Tawaret held evil in check: "Taweret was seen as one who protected against evil by restraining it" (Wiki).

    Finally, Jacob described the battle against MIB as a sort of social experiment, a debate on the human condition, which is interesting because the Dharma Initiative was partly described as a social experiment with the goal of saving humans from self-destruction.

    Jacob on MIB: "he believes everyone is corruptible because it is in their nature to sin". Whether MIB is the serpent in the garden or not, to me this concept seems similar to the Christian concept of Original Sin.

    Lost has thrown everything plus the kitchen sink in the mix from a religious overtone, using a lot of ancient religious motifs as well as concepts like the Bagua and Dharma from eastern religions, where the notion of original sin does not exist.


    I don't know what that mix means (probably nothing), but the story of the balance between light (knowledge, progress) and darkness (animal nature, temptation) is a very old myth cycle that was often played out by brothers or matching pairs: Egypt (Osiris vs. Set), Greece (Apollo vs. Dionysus) and Judaism (Jacob the father of Israel vs. Esau the "hairy", almost wild man, hunter).

    #24. Posted by: Mizzed at March 24, 2010 1:42 AM

    The first thing I thought of when MIB broke the bottle was "hell breaking loose".

    GRAA Mac. It really was quite superb! Your review, and this episode, exceeded all expectations.

    I'm excited to read the transcript for this episode. The dialogue seemed to be the important part. Many clever play on words.

    #25. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 1:44 AM

    @csmithfdub Whidmore's sub was shown in last week's episode tied to a dock on Hydra Island.

    Great review Mac! This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. We finally received some answer regarding the most mysterious character on the show! This is going to be a wild ride to the finish.

    #26. Posted by: l0stb0y at March 24, 2010 1:45 AM

    Batman doesn't have super powers? Really?! I can't believe I missed that all of these years!

    #27. Posted by: Ben Notlinus at March 24, 2010 1:49 AM

    Great posts Alaïs and Mizzed! =]

    I'm surprised some are not content with this episode.

    I also find it interesting how Jacob/MIB have very laid back and chill conversations with each other, that usually involve MIB stating how much he wants to kill Jacob and that he will find a way someday to do so. Word choice in these conversations interest me.

    I wonder "what" exactly these two beings are.

    #28. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 2:05 AM

    @ Ben Notlinus - 27

    You're kidding... right?

    #29. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 2:06 AM

    Smokey saved Guyliner because Smokey "saw" that he could use Guyliner's dead wife as leverage to manipulate Guyliner to try and kill Jacob.


    Also Jacob mentioned to Guyliner that when people arrived on the island that their past was erased and didn't matter anymore. That theme has played over and over through the years.

    #30. Posted by: Aztecdoug at March 24, 2010 2:15 AM

    #23. Posted by: Lax

    The ships did arrive under different conditions. That bugged me a lot too.

    Also, something Faraday said back in the day about how the light was different on the island. That is still bugging me and I need an answer!

    #31. Posted by: Aztecdoug at March 24, 2010 2:19 AM

    Where do you find transcripts of this episode?

    #32. Posted by: Lorna at March 24, 2010 2:19 AM

    @23: I agree. I was surprised when they landed on the island during a storm. The first ship "had to be" different. I recall Carlton being very vague on confirming if the ship in the Season 5 finale was the black rock. If that is the case, just how long does it take to make a rug if you make the thread yourself?

    @20 - I agree on the ship taking out a huge stone statue. Let's say we do suspend belief and the Black Rock broke off the statue. Wouldn't the pieces of the statue be scattered about the island?

    On Jacob. He said no one was allowed into his home unless they were invited. When was Locke ever invited in? -- Or Ben? Seems that as mediary, one of Richard's jobs was to decide who sees Jacob. What else did Richard do? Did Charles Widmore or Eloise Hawking ever meet Jacob face to face? Seems Jacob cannot re-incarnate (dead is dead) or provide redemption (that has to come from within).

    MIB meanwhile tries to manipulate by providing visions of important people that can cause vunerability. I wonder if Dave was Smokey trying to get Hurley to kill himself knowing Hurley's gift.

    Also, Hurley had that gift before Jacob touched him. From what we have been shown, Jacob did not touch Hurley until a day before Ajira 316.

    #33. Posted by: theoldred29 at March 24, 2010 2:21 AM

    Wasn't the "Statue" in one piece when Jack and company where traveling through the 50's and 70's???

    #34. Posted by: Guy at March 24, 2010 2:27 AM

    Whats up with the blue butterfly that was fluttering by just before Isabella appeared to Richard in the bowels of the Black Rock?? It looked pretty fake...not sure what they represent... maybe rebirth??? but we haven't seen it before have we?

    #35. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 24, 2010 2:40 AM

    What I find interesting is that in the opening credits of the show, each and every episode lists the name Henry Ian Cusick. Not all the actors are listed, but he is constantly. And each time
    I see it I think to myself "oh cool! Finally Desmond is back in this episode!" and yet, with the exception of a brief appearance on the plane in the season premier... there has been no Desmond this season. So why does this guy continue to get top actor billing when he is so rarely on the show? Why don't the others, who actually are on the show get listed? And how/when will Desmond show back up on the show. I heard we'd be seeing more of him this season.... Just thought I'd ask...

    #36. Posted by: Steve at March 24, 2010 2:46 AM

    GRAA Mac!

    I agree with ilovebenjaminlinusxx. I don't see how anyone was disappointed with this episode. Very satisfying from the standpoint of "the time for questions is over".

    And while I'm on that thought, I have been really annoyed that some people throughout this season have been posting comments like "they said the time for questions was over, but we're not getting any answers! Wah wah wah!"

    Let's look at what HUGE answers we got from just the first few episodes:

    -MIB/Flocke is Smokey. (If you don't consider this an epic answer, I don't know what is.)

    -The numbers signify the candidates to replace Jacob.

    -The numbers were assigned according to compass bearing.

    And now we can add to that list:

    -Richard has been on the island since the 1860's.

    -Richard was given his "eternal life" by Jacob.

    -The Black Rock was what destroyed the statue.

    -The Black Rock ended up so far inland because of a tsunami/rogue wave put it there.

    I, for one, am very pleased with the way Darlton is feeding us the answers this season. If they did it any faster, it would just ruin it.

    Now, if we take a look at the conversation that Jacob and MIB have in "The Incident", it starts to make more sense. MIB complaining that people keep coming to the island...now we know that Jacob is bringing them, and why. Jacob telling MIB "It only ends once. Everything that happens before that is just progress." I used to think that Jacob was referring to some larger "game" that they were playing or something, but now it appears that Jacob was referring to MIB with that comment. Jacob is trying to convince MIB that not all people are prone to sin, and that not everyone can be persuaded to do evil. And that every time he brings people to the island and they get killed by whatever means, it only helps MIB progress through his wall of denial.

    And if the criteria for being Jacob successor are "not prone to sin" and "cannot be corrupted or persuaded to do evil", then no one fits the bill for that more than Hurley. My money's on him.

    Now, here is one big question that I have had rattling around since the 4th episode this season: How the heck do the numbers tie in to the Dharma Initiative? I can't find any way to explain to myself why the numbers are so prevalent in Dharma. Any ideas?

    BEST LINE: Richard's laugh at the start of the episode.

    #37. Posted by: jamers503 at March 24, 2010 2:52 AM

    @25 All Hell breaking loose....interesting thought

    #38. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 24, 2010 2:57 AM

    @32 Lorna asked:

    >Where do you find transcripts of this episode?

    Not sure how soon they'll be up, but you can find them on Lostpedia.

    #39. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 24, 2010 2:58 AM

    Not to spoil anyone's fantasy about Nestor Carbonell and eyeliner, but in some of the DVD extras, they address this. He doesn't wear eyeliner. He just has really thick, long eyelashes. And for most of the shots that we see him in, Makeup has actually put concealer on his eyelashes to tone when down!

    Not what I was expecting, but it's good to finally know.

    #40. Posted by: jamer503 at March 24, 2010 2:58 AM

    @34 Some Guy observed:

    >Wasn't the "Statue" in one piece when Jack and company where traveling through the 50's and 70's???

    The Foomers defientely say a statue in one piece (from behind, from the jungle). Now it would seem that we can date that FOOM considerably earlier than we had thought.

    #41. Posted by: Cecil at March 24, 2010 3:01 AM

    Tonight's episode seems to establish that the base of the statue has always been Jacob's hangout, so it would seem that the cabin was MIB's spot all along. Did Ben know this or did he visit the cabin (with Richard?) thinking it was Jacob's and if so, what was Richard's thnking behind so decveiving Ben?

    #42. Posted by: Cecil at March 24, 2010 3:04 AM

    I can anticipate great discussions throughout the week! Hopefully I will be able to attend...

    @ Lorna - 32
    Where do you find transcripts of this episode?

    Transcripts can be found at Lostpedia:
    http://tinyurl.com/y9bzhaf

    They currently have up to last week's episode "Recon".

    #43. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 3:04 AM

    Pardon a Non-Lost observation (It does involve an island in the South Pacific, though).


    !SURVIVOR IS ON WEDNESDAY THIS WEEK!

    Survivor fans tune in tonight, Wed 3/24 to see if Boston Rob can make good on his threats, despite Russell's holding a hidden immunity idol (not Tawaret, though).

    Review up ASAP afterwards.

    We now return you to your regular LOST content.

    #44. Posted by: Cecil at March 24, 2010 3:10 AM

    @42: Was Ben being manipulateed by Smokey? I have thought on this as well. I recall when Ben said he was taking John to see Jacob (In "The Man Behind the Curtain") Richard stands up and looks somewhat puzzled, surprised the Ben would know where to find Jacob.

    Later Ben admits to have pretended to talk with Jacob in the chair. But then John turns on the flashlight and the cabin shakes. Flashes appear of somone in the chair (I believe it is Christian Shepard, who is on team Smokey)

    So whose cabin is it? Ilana sure thinks it is Jacob's. But notes it was used by someone else...

    #45. Posted by: theoldred29 at March 24, 2010 3:11 AM

    @mac - "Douchey McDouchealot" - ROTFL - and for the record, yes, I also laugh at fart jokes.

    @15. Posted by: shikotee - It was 1867. The "dr" didn't know anything, nor could he cure anything, except by accident. He mostly likely didn't even know as much as the local medicine woman (who would've been executed as a witch). He probably DID know that coughing up blood was gonna be fatal. I can see the hired men setting off to chase Richard right away, but I was wondering why the butler just stood there like an idiot with the towels.

    I think the only Spanish that wasn't translated was Hurley's conversation with Isabella. I couldn't hear every word, but basically, he agreed to look for Richard, but didn't know where to find him.

    #46. Posted by: hurling at March 24, 2010 5:36 AM

    Probably wrong, but perhaps Ricardo praying the Lord's Prayer stopped Smokey from killing him.

    #47. Posted by: ben at March 24, 2010 6:45 AM

    Very interesting episode. I was going to point out what no-one else was mentioning, that the Losties actually saw the full, unbroken statue, in one of their flashbacks but #34/Guy beat me to it. That being said, my not getting to be first doesn't minimize the significance of that fact. Up until now, we've through they've always been in the 1950's and forward. Now we know that they have traveled at a minimum 175 years into the past! What is the significance of that fact, and will it play a major role in a future episode? I hope this isn't just another red herring being thrown at us.

    Regarding Isabella, it definitely was MIB playing a scam on Alpert to gain his allegiance. She was never there for him to see (although she obviously was there when Hurley "channeled" her for him), and the whole idea of the island being Hell, while surprising in its revelation at the beginning of the episode, was merely another trick by MIB to get Ricardo to do his dirty deed.

    Gotta run!

    #48. Posted by: LostedIt at March 24, 2010 7:17 AM

    I love how you guys are all upset on how a ship could be thrown so inland, how it's not possible, and how fake it is.

    Uh, people, there is a fucking black smoke monster on the island. How's that for real?

    #49. Posted by: Schiano at March 24, 2010 7:23 AM

    Whew! I thought they were in heaven! Whew, what a relief!

    #50. Posted by: Not Zero at March 24, 2010 7:36 AM

    I'm a bit concerned to see what may be a dead Sun in the previews. Anyone else?

    #51. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 7:57 AM

    CORK??? the 4 letter word without e or i is CORK?? I hope it's something a little more.... uh..less.. BLAH.

    #46 I couldn't hear every word, but basically, he agreed to look for Richard, but didn't know where to find him.

    I though he was saying something like, "I want to help you but I don't know how" or something to that effect... i could barely hear him (and Spanish isn't my first language).

    And speaking of Hurley, when he tells Richard, Oh there's one more thing, she says you have to kill the MIB or we'll all go to hell". We never saw her say that, right? It would KILL me if he was making that up and he was being "Ben-ish" , using Richard's anguish as a tool, but he looked kind of funny (not haha) when he said that... like he waited just a tad too long or something. I'll have to watch that part again.

    #52. Posted by: sandivon at March 24, 2010 7:59 AM

    Maybe not the best episode of the season, but definitely the best review of the season! Lots of laugh out loud moments, Mac!

    Anyone else remember when Ben first met Richard? Ben told him he had seen his dead mother, and Richard wanted to know one thing: did she die on the Island? I think we saw last night why. Was the MIB luring young Benjamin into the jungle even then?

    I know some forum members disliked this episode (some even ranting that Lost jumped the shark) but I enjoyed the information we got last night, and I don't see any of it as inconsistent with what we already know.

    #53. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 24, 2010 8:09 AM

    Ok, hang on....so the island is a "cork" and we're now supposed to believe it is preventing hell and evil from being unleashed on Earth. So what does the island being "moved" do to that?

    Did the island need to be moved because it needed to seal a new entrance to hell?

    If that's not the case, wouldn't the island being moved uncover the entrance?

    I'm real confused by this cork business and the moving island. Not sure I get the way that works together.

    #54. Posted by: DW at March 24, 2010 8:24 AM

    @19
    "One question I had though... That sub Whidmore is on must be going really really slow.... 200 yards from the beach.... still no sign of it. Maybe next week...."

    Did you not watch last weeks episode where Sawyer went to Hydra Island??

    #55. Posted by: LostIsFound at March 24, 2010 8:30 AM

    @52. Posted by: sandivon - I'll listen again tomorrow, but it was something like "No se como encontrarle." And no, we didn't hear her say anything about killing MIB.

    #56. Posted by: hurling at March 24, 2010 8:36 AM

    One thing that nags me. Dogen sends Sayyid to kill MIB. Warns him not to let MIB talk. MIB does talk and doesn't die.

    MIB tells Richard to kill Jacob. Warns him not to let Jacob talk. Jacob does talk and doesn't die.

    Flocke tells Ben he will kill Jacob. Doesn't say anything about not letting Jacob talk. Jacob and Ben have a bit of a natter and then Ben kills Jacob.

    Have Jacob and MIB switched places at some point?

    #57. Posted by: Ian at March 24, 2010 8:37 AM

    And one big question: If they all think they're dead & in hell, why are they afraid of dying? How many times can you die or kill someone? OK, if you're Locke, I guess it's unlimited - but isn't the whole death thing kind of a moot point?

    #58. Posted by: hurling at March 24, 2010 8:38 AM

    few points:

    - it looked like jacob was baptizing richard at the end.

    - and the wave along with the ship could have destroyed the statue. Actually it was probably the wave. I worked several years at sea on oil tankers and have been in storms, and yes the natural force of waves can and will do that to man made objects

    - my money is on hurely to replace jacob.

    back to work

    #59. Posted by: lostatwork at March 24, 2010 8:45 AM

    Quick observations:

    1. Smokey inside the Black Rock had "electric-magnetic" flashes when moving about than current island time . . . a hint that it has evolved over time.
    2. @47/Ben, I agree, Richard's prayer stopped Smokey from killing him. I also agree the scan of memories was used to control Richard in the future.
    3. Isabella died of the plague, The Black Death.
    4. After the shipwreck, the theme was not survival but "kill or be killed" when the officer began killing the slaves, the boar eating the dead corpses in the hold, and MIB telling Richard what he had to do.
    5. Flocke watching Hurley-Richard in the jungle made me think that Flocke was puppeteering Hurley throughout that entire scene.

    As a very early adopter of "there all dead" theories of the show premise, the cork analogy fits nicely into my Nexus-Buffer theory that the island was a gate-portal between heaven and hell to stop Satan from attacking heaven.

    #60. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2010 8:46 AM

    Funny how one episode completely changed the way I looked at Richard. Who knew what a sensitive, loving guy he was? Who knew he was a praying man? Whe knew the reason he is agelss is because he was told he could never be absolved from the sin he had commited, therefore he told Jacob he wanted to live forever.
    *someone defrock that priest, would ya?*

    #61. Posted by: love the new ricardo at March 24, 2010 8:49 AM

    All right! Now that we know Richard's backstory, BRING ON THE HENRY GALE episode...

    #62. Posted by: Three Men and A Baby (I counted Hugo twice...) at March 24, 2010 8:51 AM

    Many of my points have been made already, so I won't repeat. When the priest came to visit Ricardo in prison, he took the Bible from him and realized that he could read English. Was that the only purpose for that part of the scene...realization that he knew English or was the particular chapter/verse/page of any significance? I really need to re-watch this episode. I dozed a few times near the end (GASP!)...long week already. I don't believe this to be a "fluff" episode, so dozing was a big mistake.

    #63. Posted by: Boodle at March 24, 2010 8:51 AM

    Nice write-up Mac. That's why you get the big bucks.

    I enjoyed the ep but was a little disappointed. Back whenever, Richard told Jack I think that he’d been on the island “…longer than you can imagine…” Well, I don’t know about all y’all, but I can imagine a helluva lot longer than 150 years. I was thinking thousands. I had a much better backstory written for Richard. If only they’d asked…

    The police busting in on Richard practically right after he rode half a day to give Isabella the medicine? I’m not sure they even would’ve known who he was, let alone where he lived, let alone gotten after him that quickly. In a downpour.

    And what exactly was the point of Hanso’s man asking if Richard spoke English? And then Richard’s being unable to respond, “Why, yes I do.”? I mean, if I’m on my way to the gallows, and someone asks me if I speak a language, and I actually speak that language, I’m jumping up and down shaking that man’s hand reciting every Bible verse I taught myself.

    And Smoky did give Richard the Polaroid treatment – nice one, Mac. Methinks Smoky does that to acquire useful knowledge with which he can manipulate that individual. Why doesn’t Smoky Polaroid everyone? Seems like he gives them the terrier-and-rat treatment first, and ask questions second. Didn’t Locke (with the big L on his fivehead) get the same Polaroid treatment?

    And was it just me or was Jacob’s dunking of Richard in the surf very baptismal? And then with the wine?

    I agree with Alais that the Hurley / Richard / Isabella scene was very Ghost. Hurley as Whoopee? Now I gotta go wash my retinas.

    #64. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 24, 2010 8:54 AM

    Oh, and can I just throw this out there?

    Do we really know that Magnus Hanso was on the Black Rock?

    Just because it was his ship, and the crew was working for him, we never saw him on the ship, did we?

    He may have already been on the island waiting for its arrival. Or somewhere else altogether.

    Just a thought...need more caffeine.

    #65. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 24, 2010 9:02 AM

    At first I was a little disappointed with this epi - but this morning I liked it a whole lot better. Reading everyones posts and of course Mac's great recap gets one's mind going.

    I thought the same thing about Jacob baptizing Richard in the sea.

    I also thought Richard was from farther back in the past.

    And Hurley is my pick for island leader.

    #66. Posted by: dk at March 24, 2010 9:11 AM

    @60. Posted by: welh - You didn't really & truly write "there all dead," did you?

    #67. Posted by: hurling at March 24, 2010 9:15 AM

    OK, so put me in the group that really liked this episode.

    @ Mac..."The Package" -- Stop giggling.

    This commment followed by a picture of a big black tool was just too much. I giggled.


    I liked Richard's "way" backstory. I think that Whitfield & Hanso wanted him to be able to speak English because they were taking him to the "New World" as a slave. Perhaps slaves were more marketable if they spoke English? I wondered how they ended up in the south Pacific if they were headed to the New World. Someone needs a better compass!

    @16 Mizzed..."Magnus Hanso was immediately killed in the shipwreck, so that ends any speculation about his role in future on-island affairs"

    I found it interesting that we never saw Hanso. Does that mean he's not really dead and that he will come back into play? Who knows at this point, but I think it might.

    @16 Mizzed (again)...Smokey "robs" the living of their memories of the dead to engage in full-on emotional manipulation.

    Using this explanation, which I agree with, makes Smokey's scanning of people more interesting. Can we assume then that Smokey takes out those he evaluates as being unmanipulatable (new word!) like Eko? And on the flip side, that he keeps around those who he feels he can manipulate or use like Ben and Locke?

    @24 Mizzed...Whether MIB is the serpent in the garden or not, to me this concept seems similar to the Christian concept of Original Sin.

    I had this same discussion with my husband after last night's episode. Smokey, after scanning people, tempts them with their heart's greatest desire to gain their allegiance and to get them to do his bidding.

    I thought the scene with Jacob and Ilana in the hospital was interesting. Could Ilana have gotten her injuries acting as a part of Jacob's off island security team? Maybe trying to stop the freighter folk?

    Hurley was great in this episode! I can see him in his bed as a kid telling his crazy Mama, "I see dead people!" LMAO!! I think that Hurley is taking over Richard's role as Jacob's errand boy until the new candidate is crowned, then he will work with the "new" Jacob.

    Finally, best Mac line...

    And Kate? No friggin way. I am not comfortable with Flakey Katie guarding my cork.

    Agreed...Kate shouldn't be guardian of anyone's cork ;-)

    #68. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 24, 2010 9:23 AM

    Mac said:
    "I am not comfortable with Flakey Katie guarding my cork."

    LOL...you are the man. Great review as always - thanks for hitting all the keys and then some.

    I'm really diggin' these last couple eps. The show is really on a roll. To find out 100% of Richard's past and have all our questions about him answered was phenomenal. My guess is that in the end he'll get some vindication from Jacob and all his time on the island as a Jacob puppet will not have been wasted. Especially if he helps 'stop the man in black from leaving the island' per his dead wife's instructions.

    Looking forward to a super-cheesy Jin/Sun reunion. But something tells me those two, in the immortal words of Def Leppard & Winger, will be bringin' on the heartbreak and headed for a heartbreak.

    #69. Posted by: JoePike at March 24, 2010 9:23 AM

    I get "Ricardo" equals "Richard", but where did the name "Alpert" come from (not very Spanish)? Are we missing (yet) another clue?

    #70. Posted by: Ken Siegal at March 24, 2010 9:24 AM

    RE: Why move the Island? Maybe wormholes or "gateways" to Hell open randomly at different periods of time, and in different places on the earth; requiring it to be moved via frozen donkey wheel to seal the gateway...conjecture, of course.

    RE: Broken wine jar: while it COULD be easily summed into "All Hell breaking loose", Wine has important significance in a variety of religions. For Christianity, wine represents a covenant with God through the blood of Jesus. In Islam, it represents the bringer of joy, put it's power of destruction is even greater and one must keep it "contained"...now, how this all fits into a simple corked wine bottle on the Island, I really don't know.

    IMO, one of the Best Lines of the episode was Hurley's response to nosey Jack: "...this kinda doesn't concern you."

    #71. Posted by: Donnie at March 24, 2010 9:24 AM

    I haven't seen a comment on this, so just to tie a loose end up...

    Back in the season opener, the reason Richard recognizes Flocke as the "man in black" is that right before Flocke knocks Richard out, Flocke says "it's nice to see you out of those chains". And that's the same think MIB said to Richard in the hull of the Black Rock.

    #72. Posted by: LostInConnecticut at March 24, 2010 9:24 AM

    @67 and myself:
    Oops. Bad spell checker: "they're all dead"

    #73. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2010 9:25 AM

    Posters about the ship that MIB/jacob see from the beach vs Blackrock:

    Jacob said that he has brought hundreds of people to the island, and he said it like he meant A LOT of hundreds. So it's quite possible that that was a different ship all together.

    I think it's safe to assume that smokey is every dead person that we have seen in the show (other than Hurley's I-see-dead-people stuff). The only one that I find inconsistent is Christain appearing to Jack off island.

    I think we got a lot of answers, and agree with jamers503 that we have been getting lots of great answers at just the right pace. Any quicker would ruin it. The biggest question of the show is WHAT IS THE ISLAND?, we sorta got a bit of an answer in this epi...there is more to it, but it's a start.

    #74. Posted by: HurleystheONE at March 24, 2010 9:33 AM

    Bit of a tangent here, but is anyone else convinced that Widmore is working for/with MIB? Or perhaps being manipulated by MIB? It was Widmore's team, we recall, that threatened the island, which allowed our heroes to be convinced that they "had to move the island". Moving the island played into MIB's loophole construction where he could manipulate Locke into the position of "leader" and take his body when he came as a dead man. Alternatively, if the islanders didn't move the island, Widmore's instructions were to kill everyone except Ben. That would have included the "candidates," right? Leaving who? Widmore and Ben? So maybe Widmore thought (a) he was positioning himself to take the Jacob post or (b) positioning himself to benefit from MIB's gratitude? Or perhaps Widmore is as arrogant as he appears and he thought he could contain MIB for his own purposes once all other obstacles were out of the way. Finally, where does Dharam fit into this? Manipulated into place by one of MIB/Jacob or simply a third party?

    #75. Posted by: Crazyhorse at March 24, 2010 9:35 AM

    OH! One more thing...

    So if the island is the cork keeping EEEVIL from spreading around the world, and in the ALT time the island is at the bottom of the ocean, does that mean evil has spread around the world??? ..or is evil (smokey) just no more?

    #76. Posted by: HurleystheONE at March 24, 2010 9:37 AM

    Some random thoughts:

    I think the significance of the people that are candidates are that they can 'tip' - they are not decidedly good or evil yet - and therefore can change the balance. I don't think the island is a cork in that there is something underneath the island that it's keeping in (one commenter was confused by the physical aspects of this.
    I think the island is a cork in that it has to maintain the balance of good and evil, and what we are watching is that Jacob and the MIB are tired of their jobs maintaining the balance, but they are compelled by forces external to them to maintain it.

    Things move naturally toward equilibrium - that's why unbalanced things fall - they move toward their most balanced state (vaguely recalling this from physics...) So if you remove the 'cork' - the balance point changes and the evil has to spill out everywhere...

    #77. Posted by: HES at March 24, 2010 9:37 AM

    @mac

    That Point 1 pic of Titus Welliver is about the worst i've ever seen. Totally unrecognizable to Deadwood fans. Can we find a better one?

    #78. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 24, 2010 9:39 AM

    All right! Now that we know Richard's backstory, BRING ON THE HENRY GALE episode...
    #62. Posted by: Three Men and A Baby


    Didn't we already do that last season or the season before?

    #79. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 9:46 AM

    Smokey's scanning of Richard is also consistent with the killing of Eko: Richard was spared, maybe not precisely because he prayed, but because he was expressing remorse and desire for absolution, which could be *exploited* by MIB. Whereas Eko regretted nothing, and could therefore not be manipulated against Jacob.

    It might even give MIB particular satisfaction to win his bet and his freedom with that extra twist - not just that all people are corruptible, but that the most penitent, the most motivated to be good, are actually the most easily corrupted.

    Even more interesting (for the transcript readers), remember that once again, MIB did *not* promise anything to Richard, just like he didn't promise anything to Sayid. He doesn't state, "I can reunite you with your true love," instead he asks "Do you want to be reunited with your true love?" He lies and tricks, while Jacob makes actual (but hard) deals.

    #80. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 9:47 AM

    Ricardo is (eternal) living proof of what can happen if everyone doesn't have quality affordable health care.

    #81. Posted by: lostsox at March 24, 2010 9:51 AM

    The actor that plays Richard (Nestor?) was OUTSTANDING last night! Some of the best acting I've seen on this show. It was nice to finally learn his backstory.

    If Jacob gave a list of the 6 remaining candidates to Ilana when he visited her at the hospital, why did she think Lapidus could be a candidate?

    In posts of prior episodes, some said that Smokey cannot get too close to the beach/water. If this is true, how can he get off-island to LA to take the form of Christian, Claire, etc? Also, have we seen smokey on the small island with the cages?

    #82. Posted by: BEMH at March 24, 2010 9:52 AM

    Pardon, "MISTER Eko." No disrepect intended.

    #83. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 9:54 AM

    This may be way off but in the Bible St. Michael was a protector of heaven, warding off (and keeping) the devil in hell. It seems like Jacob is playing the role of the biblical St. Michael.

    #84. Posted by: Red Shirt at March 24, 2010 10:00 AM

    If i understand this correctly, shouldn't Jacob be alive still?? He spoke to Ben before Ben stabbed him and Flocke kicked him in the fire.. Thats why I was confused at the end last night when Jacob and the MIB were sitting next to each other with the wine bottle. Was that the past or present time? Please help!! Other then that, I thought last nights episode was outstanding! Best of the season by a mile... Great review as always

    #85. Posted by: Joey at March 24, 2010 10:01 AM

    Why is everyone confused at seeing the Black Rock in calm and then rough waters? The ship is first seen in the morning by Jacob and MIB using binoculors so it's off in the distance. Ships didn't have motors back then so they traveled a bit slower. I also didn't see the slaves rowing. The ship didn't crash on the island until dark, plenty of time to conjure up a big storm, mysterious-island-style!

    #86. Posted by: BEMH at March 24, 2010 10:02 AM

    Who else got the Polaroid flash-flash-flash treatment from Smokey? I only remember it once with Kate & Juliet when they were tied together & hiding out in a rainstorm. Locke didn't get it when he first 'saw the eye of the island' in the 1st season (just re-watched that).

    #87. Posted by: shannon at March 24, 2010 10:03 AM

    @#68 lost2theworld:

    "Using this explanation, which I agree with, makes Smokey's scanning of people more interesting. Can we assume then that Smokey takes out those he evaluates as being unmanipulatable (new word!) like Eko? And on the flip side, that he keeps around those who he feels he can manipulate or use like Ben and Locke"

    Ding ding! That's what I thought too. Also, there seem to be a lot of "killers" among the ranks of the surviving castaways - maybe Smokey looks for people who are capable of taking Jacob out to "recruit."

    It was likely the Black Rock that was shown offshore in the earlier episode. Jacob could have conjured that storm to bring it (and its passengers) to the island, just like he summoned 815 by crashing it on the island. Which maybe had nothing to do with the magnetic anomaly.

    OK, I'm going to bring it up again. I think the bottle with the cork was another hint that MIB is a djinn - i.e., a genie in a bottle wanting to be free?

    Great review, Mac, and great observations by all so far!

    #88. Posted by: glostover at March 24, 2010 10:10 AM

    Great review as always Mac. Intersting to hear that you think the 6 candidates are the ones that flashed to the 70s... but why was there so much emphasis on the numbers 4.8.15.16.23.42 and then those numbers not match up with the 6 people that went to the 70s? The only one that's off is #8 Locke wasn't in the 70s and Kate is #51 if I remember correctly.

    thoughts anyone?

    #89. Posted by: Chessy at March 24, 2010 10:14 AM

    @87. shannon (so you ARE back this season!):

    Mr. Eko got flashed when Charlie was in the tree nearby, Ben got flashed under the temple.

    #90. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 10:15 AM

    Not sure if it was supposed to be obvious and that I'm just slow on the uptake, and maybe everybody else got it but me, but I took it that the end of the show, the convo between Jacob and MIB took place just after Richard came to the island, and not "present" time. And that Jacob was referring to Richard's woefully inadequate attempted "murder" and not Ben's.

    #91. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 24, 2010 10:20 AM

    Score one for vacc???

    On this very blog three years ago (tinyurl.com/ylz75qd post #35) I wrote in vivid detail the entire scene where the Black Rock takes out the 4 toed statue.

    Sure, there were quite a few "inaccuracies", and I admit that this was written more for entertainment than as an actual theory.. But considering how little we knew at the time about the Black Rock, Alpert, Jacob, and even Rousseau, I hope it still registers on the theory scoreboard. Not a slam dunk by any means - more like a 3-point shot from midcourt that glances off the backboard and bounces around the rim several times before dropping into the net..

    I'll repost it seperately here for anyone who's scoring the game at home, and limit this very lengthy post to the "directors commentary"

    I prefaced my Black Rock backstory with this very loose theory:

    "Wouldn't surprise me if Richard Alpert had been aboard the black rock"

    If I had stuck with that, my version would now seem eerily accurate. Instead, I wrote in Rousseau as the captive aboard the slave vessel and Alpert as a four toed Island native.
    This was partly due to my craving for Danielle's flashback, and also to maintain support the more entertaining idea that Alpert was 488 years old (in the LOST timeline of 2004) based on a birth date of April 8, 1516 at 11:42 PM (4-8-1516 23:42).

    I also explored the idea that the statue was an entity in and of itself -
    "The figure's arms were bound together in front of it with shackles - not part of the sculpted stone figure, but actual restraints made of a metal that shone as brightly as the day it had been forged. The ankles were similarly bound."
    I just thought that would be such a cool "first look" at the statue, and could add support to the Jinn Theory that I've explored on this blog - and which Damon and Carlton commented on and graded when I submitted to USA Today during Season 4. (You can see all the theories that Team Darlton graded at the time at - http://tinyurl.com/ykmddd9 )

    I believe this part of my Black Rock story was near the mark:
    "the prisoners turn their attention back to the captain who had drawn his pistol during the distraction. He cocks back the hammer on the weapon, and is about to squeeze the trigger when he is encircled by a thick swirling column of smoke."

    Addressing some of this episodes prior comments about the credibility of the wooden ship destroying the statue and winding up so far inland, I believe this was more of a "misfire" by the production and special effects team than anything else. I was disappointed that they seemingly skimped on these highly anticipated moments (the arrival of the Black Rock and the destruction of the Statue) while so much time was spent detailing Alpert's attempts to break from his chains. Admittedly the latter was more crucial to the story since it set the framework for Alpert's state of mind at the time MIB approached him while the former would've been solely a visual treat.

    Side note: When MIB finally appeared to Alpert, how many were reminded of Randall Flagg's visit to Lloyd Henreid's cell in The Stand? Will we see a deleted scene from "The Incident" where Jack says "My life for you" before dropping the H-Bomb into the Swan Hole?

    Okay, so I agree that this episode failed to capture the sheer magnitude and force of the type of wave that would topple the mighty Tawaret and deposit the Black Rock so far inland. However, it is likely that the statue has worn over time, and may even have a few cracks near the base after supporting such a heavy load for so many centuries. And my description of the wave accounts for a crest so high that the ship was hurled towards the top of the statue.

    "A gargantuan wave forms behind the ship. The ship begins to quickly rise, and then pitches towards the island."

    "The ship, which had already risen to about the height of the statue's shoulders, is slowly drawn backwards toward the wave's forming crest. It seems to pause for an instant atop the wave before being violently propelled forward."

    Let's not give the Black Rock too much credit - the sheer force of the water would contribute more to the demise of the statue than the ship itself.

    And even though I was off base about an Island of ageless four-toed people led by Rich Alpert, I still wish I had been in charge of creating that scene for millions of very deserving LOST fans. I wouldn't have let you down.

    #92. Posted by: vacc at March 24, 2010 10:26 AM

    It occurs to me that since MIB said the "devil stole his body," Flocke was immune to being stabbed to death by Sayid because unlike Jacob he doesn't have a real body. The warning about not letting Jacob speak was probably because as MIB observed, he is very persuasive. Dogen seemed to be going on old instructions to Sayid; what worked on Jacob doesn't work on MIB, and Dogen either didn't know it or really did want MIB to kill Sayid.

    #93. Posted by: glostover at March 24, 2010 10:28 AM

    The bottle is the island, keeping the "evil" contained.

    Jacob's "task" is as the cork is to the bottle, containing the evil on the island.

    Would the destruction of the bottle (without destroying/removing the cork) be analogous to the evil being set free when the island was destroyed by the bomb? Do the experiences of the 815'ers in the alt time line occur in a world where the evil has been released from the island or was the MiB likewise destroyed?

    #94. Posted by: Flubberlange at March 24, 2010 10:31 AM

    Question:

    Are we SURE MIB can appear as only dead people? Like, is there any chance he was WAAAAAAALT appearing to Locke telling him he had work to do?

    It would make sense for his purposes, but not sure if it jives with what else we've seen from him.

    #95. Posted by: K9Vincent at March 24, 2010 10:32 AM

    This is the re-post of my "Black Rock backstory" - which I wrote during Season 3 and referred to in my prior post.
    ------------

    The five questions I want to see answered, along with my guess on the answer :

    5)Q: When is Richard Alpert's birthday?
    A: April 8, 1516 at 11:42 PM (4-8-1516 23:42) making him 488 years old.

    4) Q: Are there any descendants of the Black Rock survivors (or actual survivors) among the island natives? For that matter, how about a flashback to the Black Rock's arrival on the Island.

    A: Wouldn't surprise me if Richard Alpert had been aboard the black rock. I doubt we'll get that backstory, so here's my own crack at it -

    The first moments of the season 5 premiere episode: We see a tall sailing ship caught in a fierce tropical storm and being tossed about like the SS Minow. Water is spilling over the sides of the ship and into the main cabins.. the camera follows the flowing water on it's journey to the lowest parts of the ship. Below deck we see hundreds of prisoners - men and women - frantically trying to escape from their chains as the water keeps rising. "Captain!" we hear a shout from the deck above.. As the captain comes into our view, we follow his gaze and are shown the peaks of the Island mountains. A gargantuan wave forms behind the ship. The ship begins to quickly rise, and then pitches towards the island. As the ship nears the shore, screams come from the crew on deck - directly in their path is a seemingly ancient statue of a human figure, at least 100 feet tall. The figure's arms were bound together in front of it with shackles - not part of the sculpted stone figure, but actual restraints made of a metal that shone as brightly as the day it had been forged. The ankles were similarly bound. Even as the captain's mind raced with fear of the impending disaster, he noticed that each of the figure's sandaled feet have only four toes. The ship, which had already risen to about the height of the statue's shoulders, is slowly drawn backwards toward the wave's forming crest. It seems to pause for an instant atop the wave before being violently propelled forward. The ship collides sideways with the statue and sends it toppling. The wave carries the ship nearly a mile inland before depositing it in the thick of the jungle trees. The deck appears empty, as most of the crew had been thrown overboard. Inside the ship, we see the captain pull himself to his feet. As he emerges onto the deck, he is faced by about a dozen of the ship's captives who managed to escape their chains. "Stand Back" the captain barks, then takes a catious step backward. A sudden loud thump and a crackling sound come from the nearby trees. As everyone turns towards the sound, several distant trees get seemingly uprooted as something appears to be approaching the ship. A few more trees get uprooted, then ... quiet. After nearly a minute of silence, the prisoners turn their attention back to the captain who had drawn his pistol during the distraction. He cocks back the hammer on the weapon, and is about to squeeze the trigger when he is encircled by a thick swirling column of smoke. This is accompanied by a rattling sound not unlike several anchors being raised at once. The captain, firmly in the grasp of the black smoke pillar, is hoisted briefly above the stern of the ship, then impaled on a splintered piece of wreckage. The camera pans slowly from left to right to show us the reaction of those on deck - then pauses on one particular face - a familiar face to us all - it's Danielle Rousseau! She looks filthy and haggard, exactly as we are used to seeing her. The camera pulls back until we can see the entire ship - and the inscribed words "Black Rock" and "Portsmouth" at the stern. The camera pans along the length of the Black Rock until the bow comes into our view. Beyond the wreck, at the base of the tree line, we see a handful of people emerging from the jungle - at first we see only their legs and feet - some are barefoot and some are wearing sandles - but all have four toes. The camera zooms out and we see at the forefront of the native islander gathering is Richard Alpert - who looks nearly the same age as he did in Ben's childhood flashback. The word "LOST" flashes accross our TV's and we are all treated to our first commercial of the season.

    #96. Posted by: vacc at March 24, 2010 10:34 AM

    @34/Guy and @48 LostedIt
    "...the Losties actually saw the full, unbroken statue, in one of their flashbacks..." "Up until now, we've thought they've always been in the 1950's and forward. Now we know that they have traveled at a minimum 175 years into the past! What is the significance of that fact, and will it play a major role in a future episode? I hope this isn't just another red herring being thrown at us."

    --------------------------------

    Actually, when the Foomers saw the full statue, Sawyer was holding the rope that was sticking out of the ground where the well once was (in the future pre-Orchid Station days). So the well wasn't even built that days and it was pre-Black Rock. So the rope probably was the marker for the construction of the well and subsequently of the Orchid Station.

    So that fact brings up 2 interesting questions:
    - Who built the well?
    - Who built the FDW?

    And now i leave you with Richard's laugh (hee-hee-hee) ;)

    #97. Posted by: fpalma_is_lost at March 24, 2010 10:35 AM

    The battle between Jacob and MIB reminds me of this passage from Revelation in the Bible:

    1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

    #98. Posted by: Adam Young at March 24, 2010 10:36 AM

    @15

    As a medical student, I can tell you that I can probably diagnose Isabella's condition just from the blood she coughed up. Considering the year it was set in and incidence rates, she probably had TB. Even now, that blood would immediately start my mind racing in that direction. As for a cure, antibiotics weren't invented for another 20 years, so it was probably snake oil (figuratively of course).

    #99. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at March 24, 2010 10:37 AM

    I may be "misremembering" this but did I hear MIB say something last night about Jacob taking his body when talking about being trapped there? Could it be that the form we see him in is the body of Hanso? We've never seen him before.

    Of course, if I am wrong about the taking of the body thing, this point is all moo (kinda like a cow's opinion, it doesn't matter).

    #100. Posted by: DW at March 24, 2010 10:39 AM

    Also, I wonder if Jacob and the MIB used to be on opposite sides at one point since Jacob (if we're to believe the MIB) stole his body. Hmmm.

    #9. Posted by: Silhouette at March 24, 2010 12:33 AM

    Interesting - keeps buying into the Old-Testament biblical story of Jacob and Esau (Esau being MIB), where Jacob buys Esau's birthright from him, only for Esau to realize what he'd done later. Like "stealing" Esau's "body"?

    #101. Posted by: Krysmopompas at March 24, 2010 10:40 AM

    "We didn't land on the Black Rock..
    The Black Rock landed on us!!"

    - Tawaret during his 1967 campaign for Island President

    #102. Posted by: vacc at March 24, 2010 10:40 AM

    @ #87. And didn't Rose and Bernard FOOM to the 70's too? Then the only-the-candidates-FOOM theory doesn't hold up...

    #103. Posted by: HurleyIsHot at March 24, 2010 10:41 AM

    #16. Posted by: Mizzed
    * The skips in time around the dislodged FDW were not random, but purposeful, and apparently controlled by MIB who needed Locke, et al to appear at specific places in time to create specific actions to work towards the loophole, manipulating Richard and Locke along the way

    This is interesting
    -------------------------------------
    #18. Posted by: Carlos
    "..do those instructions ever work?"
    I think they don't matter. Ben wasn't given those instructions by Flocke and Jacob spoke to him before he plunged the knife into his chest. I believe what he said to Ben before the deathstryke was "what about you?"

    They are both master manipulators and both know the other can be very convincing.
    ----------------------------------------
    #23. Posted by: Lax
    These two ships arrived at the island under very different circumstances. I don't see how we can assume them to be the same.

    This is also interesting. Different time loops? Different circumstances? Same people? Or if you think of it,And Jacob has been bringing people to the island again and again, Ships were the main means of conveyance.
    ----------------------------------
    #47. Posted by: ben
    Probably wrong, but perhaps Ricardo praying the Lord's Prayer stopped Smokey from killing him.

    MIB looks for people who "believe". Men of faith.OTOH as some one said, Eko was a man of Faith but was rejected. Maybe it has to be Blind faith.
    -----------------------------------
    #52. Posted by: sandivon
    but he looked kind of funny (not haha) when he said that... like he waited just a tad too long or something. I'll have to watch that part again.

    I think it is just that Hurley does not like delivering bad news. This may make him a bad candidate. But as someone else said, I think he would be my choice to keep the cork in the bottle.
    ---------------------------------

    Keeping the cork on the bottle does not seem to work very well. Isn't there an in balance in bad versus evil in the world already? Hate to see what would happen if it popped.

    Some one also mentioned the sideways would with the island at the bottom of the sea. It did not appear to be overrun with evil. But then we haven''t seen the end. the candidates all have the ability to be "good" and it seems like they are doing better in the sideways world, But maybe that is falling apart. First Sayid letting his emotions bring out his bad side and the Sawyer unable to let his anger go. And Kate had a menacing look on her face, I thought when she got caught.

    #104. Posted by: berkyo at March 24, 2010 10:50 AM

    Something I’m struggling with...Did Jacob intend to bring all people from Black Rock to island or just Richard? If Richard was important to him, then why leave him bound in chains on the ship to starve and potentially interact with MIB? And initially, Jacob asks whether or not Richard had talked with MIB before coming to kill him…How else would Richard be free if MIB didn't help him escape the chains? It’s not like Richard had the choice or power to escape on his own.

    @49- BEST.POST.EVER!

    Another thought - So the Black Rock and Desmond's boat both go thru a nasty storm before crashing on the island. Back in the tanker/helicopter days, I thought I recalled that they had to go through a storm of sorts to get from the tanker to the island. Is there some kind of weather barrier around the island that helps to protect it from being found by outsiders? And the weather does not affect island hopping on the canoe or the Other’s/Tom’s boat, which somehow Michael used to escape the island. So “people in the know, (Widmore, Dharma people, Ben) would use the submarine to come and go from the island – being the safest way because its less vulnerable to the weather.

    #105. Posted by: Selmie26? at March 24, 2010 11:12 AM

    @46. Posted by: hurling
    @99. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD
    re: 1867 medical knowledge

    I'm fully aware that medical science was quite different during this time, and consumption was all the rage. The way it was delivered just seemed off to me. Yeah - the butler standing with the towels, and not rushing closer to inspect was off too. Based on what we saw, no one other than the doctor knew where Richard came from. So - out of curiosity - how does one track a horse through the rain, especially when it is a half day journey? Anyways - this is minor, and not really worth getting into. For me, it set the tone....


    @72. Posted by: LostInConnecticut
    re: "it's nice to see you out of those chains"

    This kinda bugs me too! It leaves the impression that between 1860 until the time of Flocke, Richard never encounters Flocke again? I guess I'm a little let down because I was hoping the episode would flesh out how Richard becomes involved with the Others. Are they already on the island (in some form)? Does Richard spend years in isolation, or does he hang with Jacob? How would he not go crazy like Rousseau or Claire? Why was 50's Richard so clean, while 60's Richard (who meets young Ben) more like a pirate? Instead of addressing any of this, we had extended scenes of bondage Richard! Arghhhhh!


    @75. Posted by: Crazyhorse
    re: Widmore

    The more I think of it, the more I believe Widmore is on MIB's side, or at the least, not on Jacob's side. Perhaps there were more reasons for banishment than we are aware of!


    @80. Posted by: LockeBox
    re: Death of Eko

    Sound plausible!

    @82. Posted by: BEMH
    re: smokey, "how can he get off-island to LA to take the form of Christian, Claire, etc"


    I think the impression is that this is not actually smokey.


    @86. Posted by: BEMH
    re: was that the Black Rock that we saw earlier?

    I don't think it really makes a difference. But yeah - the storm could have taken place a few hours later, which would cause the ship to go all over the place, possibly even return to the island. The island also moves, so it could have been stalking the ship ;)

    @90. Posted by: LockeBox
    re: "Mr. Eko got flashed when Charlie was in the tree nearby, Ben got flashed under the temple"

    Quoting this because it sounds funny!


    @92. Posted by: vacc

    Agree with you - that the BR taking out the statue was a misfire. We've been waiting so long for these explanations, so frustrating that such little time was used to explain what happened, when so much time was used showing bondage Richard.


    re: The episode was kinda weak....

    Here in Canada, the episode was on at 7pm, so I watched it at that time. 8pm, was last week's episode with the captions, then 9pm, the episode was on again. From 9pm onwards, I was working on something on my computer, and only on occasion did I feel compelled to re-watch the episode for clarification. Unusual, as I generally enjoy re-watching an episode.

    #106. Posted by: shikotee at March 24, 2010 11:12 AM

    Great review Mac! You always make me laugh.

    I've thought from the outset that Hurley was going to be a part of the island, either as the Boss or as the consigliere. I've also thought Sawyer would die a noble and heroic death. Sometimes I toy with it visa versa, but bottom line I've always thought only Sawyer and Hurley had the humanity and vulnerability and humility to do what needs to be done.

    About Hurley: I guess Dave at the sanitarium was a dead guy. Libby's husband?

    Jacob's statement that only those he invited could enter his abode... that reminds me of the old "rule" that evil must be invited in, it cannot come in of its own accord. The very old story that the devil is closed in a cell with only a twig keeping the door closed. the devil cajoles, begs, beseeches anyone to remove the twig to release him. Why doesn't he remove the twig himself? He can't enter the world unless he is invited.

    I still think MIB cannot open the door to leave the island himself. He needs someone else to voluntarily let him out.
    That's what he's been doing for years, trying to find someone who will choose to let him off the island. He finally found Ben who chose to kill Jacob. No need to warn Ben not to let Jacob speak, because there was nothing Jacob could have said to dissuade Ben.

    And I think one of the conditions that must be met for someone to release him is that the person doing the releasing be aware to some extent, the true nature of who it is they are releasing. Which is why the MIB is telling some people that he is Smokey.

    And I love that he told Sawyer! For all his experience, MIB is not a very good judge of character.

    Poor Richard...Jacob said I can not absolve you so Richard asks for eternal life to avoid hell! The whole point of all this is that no one can absolve anyone else; forgiveness/redemption of a sinner can only come from the sinner himself. Case in point: Eko.

    That's all for now. Gotta get ready for a job interview.

    #107. Posted by: undauntid at March 24, 2010 11:15 AM

    @105.
    So the Black Rock and Desmond's boat both go thru a nasty storm before crashing on the island. Back in the tanker/helicopter days, I thought I recalled that they had to go through a storm of sorts to get from the tanker to the island. Is there some kind of weather barrier around the island that helps to protect it from being found by outsiders? And the weather does not affect island hopping on the canoe or the Other’s/Tom’s boat, which somehow Michael used to escape the island. So “people in the know, (Widmore, Dharma people, Ben) would use the submarine to come and go from the island – being the safest way because its less vulnerable to the weather.

    Which also would mean Walt and Michael went through a pretty nasty storm to get off the island.

    #108. Posted by: LostIsFound at March 24, 2010 11:28 AM

    OK, no one is discussing Hurley's last comments. With him declaring that Isabella is now "gone", boy did she have a fast mouth to tell him to stop man in black. It seemed fake and I thought the camera shot around Hurley was to show she was gone. Something fishy.
    My guess, Jacob told Hurley to say it.

    (other sci-fi thoughts, only time rules don't let you kill someone is when that someone is an early version of you in time or your future father, just idle thought.)

    #109. Posted by: Stock at March 24, 2010 11:31 AM

    @107 undauntid mentioned:

    >That's all for now. Gotta get ready for a job interview.

    Good luck! Let us know how it comes out. Looking to change jobs ot looking for a job?

    #110. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 24, 2010 11:34 AM

    I agree with post #107 about only Hurley and Sawyer having the humanity and vulnerability to "lead" the island. What if this whole series leads up to a replacement of the island "cast" with the "newcomers." The balance of good and evil passes to Hurley (the new Jacob) and Sayid (the new MIB?) Sayid is being noticeably quiet right now but sure seems to have gone to the dark side--most recently he would have let Claire kill Kate.

    With Hurley in the Jacob role (surely he is the most humane and kindly of them all, if we are to believe that Jacob is either of those two things. Also Hurley clearly has "special" powers that the rest of the "candidates" do not have), could Sawyer become his consigliere in much the same way that Richard Alpert seemed to have been Jacob's? Or does the current MIB stay in place but in checkmate because of Jacob's replacements? Do the rest of our main characters become the new "others," i.e., the long-term residents of the island. Jack could be the leader instead of Ben Linus. Do we end the series with everything still in balance?

    Just some ramblings with TONS of loose ends, but you can't help but try to project at this point where everything is going? How will it all be wrapped up?

    Any thoughts?

    Jane

    #111. Posted by: Jane Gibson at March 24, 2010 11:34 AM

    re: 82 My opinion is that the off-island dead people sightings were Jacob. There is no evidence that he doesn't have the same power to appear as someone else as MIB. Maybe he can ONLY do it off-island, maybe not.
    Why did Jacob ask Richard if he talked to a man in black? I could swear when MIB got up after giving RA the knife he wasn't wearing black, in fact I thought he looked like he was wearing "Other" rags. Can someone look at that scene again and post?
    Someone posted Flocke was watching the Hurley/Richard/Isabella encounter but I don't remember that either. Can someone confirm if I was dozing in and out of this episode or not. I could happen!
    I don't really believe Jacob is "dead". I think it was a ruse to make MIB believe he was and to test RA, Ben and the candidates. It was just too easy and broke the rule of kill him before he talks.
    I agree with the fact that i we saw a daylight scene with a ship and a night scene with a storm and other transports to the island went through a "storm" to get there. The only fact here is that the Black Rock ship was the ship that came at night on the crest of a BIG wave.

    #112. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 24, 2010 11:42 AM

    Didn't we already do that last season or the season before?

    #79. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 9:46 AM

    I think we got the "story" of Mr. Gale, but I don't ever recall, even when everyone was "Fooming" around, seeing a balloon crashing into a tree. Just that Ben assumed his identity when he was caught by the losties and that Sayid dug up the grave and found his driver's license...

    Just curious if it's a loose end, or we'll get some difinitive answer. Same thoughts with Libby too...

    #113. Posted by: Three Men and a Baby (I counted Hugo twice) at March 24, 2010 11:51 AM

    Thank you Cecil! I quit my old job 2 weeks ago, and am now looking for something else. In fact, I'm leaving right now.

    #114. Posted by: undauntid at March 24, 2010 12:03 PM

    Stellar recap, Mac! As always, thank you!

    NOT being the diligent, church going Catholic, I kept pondering the shots of the tree where MIB and Ricardo had most of their intrinsic conversation. I kept thinking of the association between this tree and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. MIB=serpent slithering down from the tree to tempt Adam & Eve...I mean Ricardo and Isabella?

    #115. Posted by: ChiTownTeach at March 24, 2010 12:10 PM

    # 32 transcripts

    This one seems to always be up first.
    I read this before I read Mac's and that is generally at 6:00 am on Thursday morn.
    Later in the week she does an audio transcript

    http://tinyurl.com/yzthwxq

    #116. Posted by: btly at March 24, 2010 12:11 PM

    #107. Posted by: undauntid
    If you want the job, I hope you get!


    #111. Posted by: Jane Gibson

    I like this. I could be happy with it. Really, I can't see them as in the sideways world........who am I kidding? I want this to make sense! ARRRGGGGHHHHH

    #117. Posted by: berkyo at March 24, 2010 12:12 PM

    One curiousity/clue to point out...

    They referred to "the New World" a few times. I find this curious, because by 1867, "the New World", particularly the part where English would be useful, has a well established name - the good ole U.S. of A.

    Also, any route from the Canary Islands (in the Atlantic just off the coast of Africa) to the US (if that's what "the New World" actually refers to) and any route from Sydney to LA wouldn't have any intersection points, unless one of them is going WAY out of the way. This leads me to a few options:

    1) "New World" does mean the US and is just a strange usage here, and thus the island has moved at least once between the Richard's arrival and Flight 815.

    2) The "New World" usage is intentional and perhaps refers to something other than the US. What else could it refer to? Who knows. But consider the fact that the Black Rock made it awfully far inland and the awfully high up to destroy the statue. It's far-fetched, but could the New World have been literally another world, not necessarily on Earth? And perhaps the Black Rock is a Zephyr (a la Chris Van Allsburg's Wreck of the Zephyr)?

    3) Boring option: Island never moved, and one of flight 815 or the Black Rock took an INSANELY wrong turn on route to the States.

    Finally, what think we of the name of the ship, Black Rock, and the fact that Jacob and Smokey are playing some sort of world Backgammon with black and white rocks?

    #118. Posted by: chrisvanb at March 24, 2010 12:22 PM

    How does the idea of Smokey being the island's "security system" play into all of this?

    MIB doesn't seem to love the island the same way Jacob does... Why would he want to protect it if he just wants to get off of it?

    Maybe he wants it without intruders for as long as he is on it.

    Not sure if this post made any sense.

    #119. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 24, 2010 12:25 PM

    In the end when MIB was sitting there by the tree overlooking the landscape and Jacob came and sat next to him, am I the only one who fully expected them to say, "Mornin' Ralph." "Mornin' Sam."?

    OK, I'm probably the only one.

    #120. Posted by: jk at March 24, 2010 12:31 PM

    maybe the new world is in fact not the states but austrialia and new zealand. and isnt that where the british too prisoners as well (and the fact someone was a slave would be noticed less than the states, circa civil war???)

    #121. Posted by: lostatwork at March 24, 2010 12:33 PM

    @120 - no i was thinking the same thing

    maybe it ends with -

    thats all folks

    #122. Posted by: lostatwork at March 24, 2010 12:35 PM

    @121

    Agreed. I failed to recognize Australia as another English-speaking "New World" possibility. That would also make more room for the paths of Black Rock and Flight 815 intersecting.

    Anyone on the tie between the name Black Rock and the rock barter going on between Jacob and Smokey?

    #123. Posted by: chrisvanb at March 24, 2010 12:39 PM

    If you speak English, seems pretty common sensical to require that your slaves speak English. Not for their re-sale value in the New World, but for the simple reason that when you bark orders at them, you want them to understand you instead of staring back blank-faced.

    #124. Posted by: Rms at March 24, 2010 12:45 PM

    @107. undauntid:

    Good luck! At least you'll have some original answers to What is your greatest weakness?

    Um... circles of ash?
    Free will?
    Unable to stop looking at LOST blogs during work hours?

    #125. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 12:53 PM

    @118. Posted by: chrisvanb
    re: the new world

    I see this as a rather uneducated look at North America. Richard's knowledge of things at that point in his life could be limited by his education, which likely has depended on access to old books and what not.

    Also, it isn't surprising that an outsider would use this frame of reference. Many people referred to it as the New World simply because that is what they believed, in relation to something like "Old World" Europe, which had been around for so so long.

    At this point - I think it is safe to say Richard has never met anyone from North America who would correct his terminology.

    With all this in mind, I can't help but wonder how Ricardus educated himself. When was he able to leave the island (we know he has - when he was spying on Juliette's sister for Ben) and experience the USA for himself? No doubt, this must have been very emotional for him, considering how long he had been planning to start a new life there with his wife.

    #126. Posted by: shikotee at March 24, 2010 12:58 PM

    Like others have mentioned, I was expecting Richard's history to go much further back, especially with Illana, et al's Latinized version of his name (Ricardus) and the use of Latin in the Other community. (About which we've heard very little since the ep about that bomb - what was it's name again?)

    #127. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 24, 2010 1:09 PM

    GRAA Mac!

    Been doing more reading than posting lately so I'll try to stay brief (really I could keep going). My answers/comments to you Mac (before I’m convinced otherwise by other posts):
    -Black Rock ended up in jungle because it rode a wave up/over/through the statue, thus breaking our favorite pregnant Hippo-lady Hummel/statue
    -Don't think the boat in The Incident is the Black Rock. That boat was barely off the coast under clear weather and calm seas while the Black Rock was rolling around in the open ocean in a storm, THEN somebody spotted land and shortly after that the sea rose a few hundred feet and made landfall at the statue
    -Omitted from Ricardo's bad couple of weeks of existence was condemned to be hung, denied absolution of sin and condemned to hell.
    -could the cork be the electro-magnetism that is in different spots of the world? That "healer" in Australia mentioned different types of energy in different locations, etc. So perhaps those locations relieve pressure, but the island keeps the mother lode of energy at bay. And the electromagnetism is what contains Flocke there.
    -Think Smokey kills those that have not sinned or sins that aren't so bad. “scanning Richard for blemishes and sins” he figures out that Ricardo killed somebody, cannot be absolved of his sin and therefore belongs to the Evil Club
    -Aren’t there “stories” with people that are the watchmen over the River Styx, or Cerberus guards the gates of Hell, etc. so why can’t the position Jacob hold’s be of a similar purpose. Evil has their toll booths and folks watching who comes and goes from Hell, perhaps the good guys have the same on their side. Hench no absolution of sins or zombie Isabella creation abilities.

    #128. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 24, 2010 1:10 PM

    (sorry original post not easily read)

    GRAA Mac!

    Been doing more reading than posting lately so I'll try to stay brief (really I could keep going). My answers/comments to you Mac (before I’m convinced otherwise by other posts):

    -Black Rock ended up in jungle because it rode a wave up/over/through the statue, thus breaking our favorite pregnant Hippo-lady Hummel/statue

    -Don't think the boat in The Incident is the Black Rock. That boat was barely off the coast under clear weather and calm seas while the Black Rock was rolling around in the open ocean in a storm, THEN somebody spotted land and shortly after that the sea rose a few hundred feet and made landfall at the statue

    -Omitted from Ricardo's bad couple of weeks of existence was condemned to be hung, denied absolution of sin and condemned to hell.

    -could the cork be the electro-magnetism that is in different spots of the world? That "healer" in Australia mentioned different types of energy in different locations, etc. So perhaps those locations relieve pressure, but the island keeps the mother lode of energy at bay. And the electromagnetism is what contains Flocke there.

    -Think Smokey kills those that have not sinned or sins that aren't so bad. “scanning Richard for blemishes and sins” he figures out that Ricardo killed somebody, cannot be absolved of his sin and therefore belongs to the Evil Club

    -Aren’t there “stories” with people that are the watchmen over the River Styx, or Cerberus guards the gates of Hell, etc. so why can’t the position Jacob hold’s be of a similar purpose. Evil has their toll booths and folks watching who comes and goes from Hell, perhaps the good guys have the same on their side. Hench no absolution of sins or zombie Isabella creation abilities.

    #129. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 24, 2010 1:12 PM

    @68 "...because they were taking him to the "New World"."

    Did they actually say they were going to the "New World"? Not sure, will have to watch again.

    Perhaps they wanted an English speaking slave to translate to the non-English speaking slaves.

    #130. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 24, 2010 1:13 PM

    The MIB knew about Jacob's analogy using the wine bottle, and he knew what the cork symbolized.

    MIB has been shown numerous times to have a knack for going "around the rules". By smashing the bottle, he released the wine without ever touching the cork.

    If you don't have the key to Pandora's box, just break the hinges holding the lid.

    #131. Posted by: Paul at March 24, 2010 1:17 PM

    Question - wasn't there a promo that showed Richard with a ship in a bottle? I didn't see that in the show last night...did I miss something?

    Also, I am on the fence w/the whole 'New World' thing because if you look at it as someone (sorry, too lazy to scroll backwards) mentioned...to europeans, it was still the 'new world', immigrants coming over as late as the early 1900s...still referred to the US as the 'new world' and when they would return to europe or wherever, they'd say they were going back to the 'old country'. However, that's not to say that having an entire 'New World' wouldn't be impossible given the circumstances. JMHO.

    #132. Posted by: almostlost at March 24, 2010 1:17 PM

    @127. Cecil Rose: "(About which we've heard very little since the ep about that bomb - what was its name again?)"

    The name of the episode was "Jughead" - not sure about the name of the bomb.

    #133. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 1:17 PM

    @132. almostlost: "Question - wasn't there a promo that showed Richard with a ship in a bottle? I didn't see that in the show last night...did I miss something? "

    That shot is from last season, when Richard is rigging the model in his tent when the time travelers come into his camp - I think it was Daniel in his last minutes, or was it Widmore on his horse instead of the time travelers?

    Sorry for the numerous short blasts, but so posts go up so quickly here.

    What do we make of the fact that Richard had no flash-sideways? Is he underwater? Wouldn't that suck if he's immortal?

    #134. Posted by: LockeBox at March 24, 2010 1:24 PM

    I agree with Alais that the Hurley / Richard / Isabella scene was very Ghost. Hurley as Whoopee? Now I gotta go wash my retinas.

    -------------------------------------
    I also agree. As the camera panned around the back of Hurley's head I half expected it to zoom in and show Richard with his head nestled on Hurley's shoulder like when Whoopie let Patrick Swayzee use her body to touch Demi Moore.

    #135. Posted by: Arionis at March 24, 2010 1:25 PM

    @127. Posted by: Cecil Rose
    re: that bomb - what was it's name again?

    Was it "women hater"?
    Was it "Cheeseburger lover"?
    Was it "Archie's best friend"?
    Was it "Lazy teenager"?

    I'm at a loss! ;)

    Arghhhhhhhh!

    #136. Posted by: shikotee at March 24, 2010 1:28 PM

    @134 - thanks for the quick response. Another reason I love this blog!

    #137. Posted by: almostlost at March 24, 2010 1:29 PM

    Sorry if I'm repeating others, just had to get my thoughts out first.

    I thought the episode was awesome. Loved the Ricardos backstory, loved the on Island stuff, especially at the end.

    So Man in Black is definitely evil, and Jacob may not be a nice guy, but he is the one who pushes down on the cork that holds evil inside the bottle. If he dies and isn't replaced in time, MIB can push his way out and enslave the world. So, MIB is actually The Evil One. nothing he says, can be trusted. What does that make Jacob? God's little helper, I guess.

    I think dogen learned from Alpert about MIB's trickery, trying to get Richard to kill Jacob. Maybe he thought that it could work both ways.

    @Mac: MIB left Richard alive, because he planned for him to kill Jacob. That's why he let him starve for a while in the ship, between his dead friends, taunting him with a vision of his dead wife, then slaying her, etc. Pretty damned evil! He wanted to mess him up enough, so he would do anything MIB wanted. I don't think the part about not letting the guy speak a word before you kill him, is significant in terms of the rules. MIB just didn't want Jacob to have a chance to counter his lies.

    The second time he uses Ben. He benefits from the fact that Jacob doesn't interact with (most of) the people he brings to the Island, he wants them to judge for themselves, instead of being judged. So as much as he may want to (if he even does), he can't answer Ben's question: What about me? If Ben wants to kill him, knowing what he does, so be it. however, he didn't have to taunt him. he could have remained silent, like he usually does to Hugo. So I guess he knew that the time for his replacement was at hand and somehow, he feels that he can do more good dead than alive.

    This one definitely makes my Top 5 best epi's so far.

    #138. Posted by: Mischa at March 24, 2010 1:31 PM

    @ #136. shikotee - Am I understanding your question..

    Wasn't the name of the bomb JUGHEAD?

    #139. Posted by: HurleystheONE at March 24, 2010 1:39 PM

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUURRRRRRGGH!

    #140. Posted by: glostover at March 24, 2010 1:45 PM

    AAAAAUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


    (timing just felt good.)

    #141. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 1:45 PM

    HEY!

    #142. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 1:46 PM

    davidrh just threw my stone into the water.

    #143. Posted by: glostover at March 24, 2010 1:49 PM

    I think the two visions of the Black Rock are in fact the same ship. Crazy stuff is going on, so I see no reason why Jacob couldn't conjure up a monster tsunami/storm from a clear beautiful day. I mean we are existing in some quasi-hell, no reason to question the "realism" of a storm coming out of no where.

    Secondly, I am fine with the statue being ripped to shreds. The statute must have been like 200ft tall, and we know the ship was at head level, so it is the wave, not the ship, that destroyed the statute and scattered it about. That seems possible.

    I am looking forward to seeing how the final "battle" plays out. If the six are candidates, and every other candidate ever has died, I anticipate we will see the tragic end of some major players. Its the last season so they can kill off whoever is not the chosen one - and in keeping with the back story they almost have to.

    I think Richard's path is leading him to death as well. He longs to die - and it will take him to his wife.

    #144. Posted by: HeyYo at March 24, 2010 2:04 PM

    Every time I get a good davidrh AAAAAUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!-bomb, I hear Charlie Brown as Lucy yanks away the football.

    My day is complete.

    Also, watched the V recap last night. Old Pal Juliet is chewing gum and kicking ass...and she's all out of chewing gum...

    #145. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 24, 2010 2:04 PM

    @132 almostlost asked:

    >Question - wasn't there a promo that showed Richard with a ship in a bottle? I didn't see that in the show last night...did I miss something?

    Richard was shown in a tent working on a ship in a bottle in the season 5 episode "Follow the Leader" which is undoubtedly where the promo clip came from.

    #146. Posted by: Cecil at March 24, 2010 2:16 PM

    undaunted, good luck w/the interview...let us know how it goes! : )

    #147. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 24, 2010 2:20 PM

    About the candidates and them being at a "tipping point" between good and evil, as well as what is becoming more apparent as Hurley's major role in all this, I think Hurley is being played by both sides….and appropriately so. Maybe, in the end, the argument isn’t that good should triumph over evil or vice verse (like Mac said), but that the only harmony that’s correct for the world is the harmony between the two…like ying and yang, black stones and white stones, pieces of a backgammon game, etc…And an individual’s ability to choose between the two is their true destiny and fate….their true “heaven” or “hell”…which is why Jacob explained to Alpert that he refuses to step in to steer a candidate’s choice to one side or the other…

    #148. Posted by: Vikki at March 24, 2010 2:21 PM

    A few things.

    There's already evil in the world. So, the evil on the island must be some (wait for it...) UBER-evil right? Like zombie-plagues, fire and brimstone etc...

    Also, the whole Jacob/MIB thing doesn't really explain the Dharma role right? So, did human technology finally catch up with the supernatural and that's how they found/charted the island? Or did Jacob/MIB want to be found and essentially allowed themselves to be found/studied... And if so for what purpose?

    #149. Posted by: Toner at March 24, 2010 2:22 PM

    I am a die-hard LOST fan, but I think the wine-bottle smashing at the end is getting a little too much attention and interpretation.

    Jacob used the wine bottle just as a prop to describe the situation to Richard, because he also drank from it like it was a common practice. The white rock he sends to MIB is a taunt, and I think the wine bottle at the end was the same thing. Just a little "in your face" trash talk from Jacob. MIB smashing it was just his temper flaring.

    Although I wonder, too, if it was a taunt from Jacob about MIB's limits: have we ever seen MIB, Flocke, or any of his incarnations eat or drink?? I don't think he does, perhaps even can't. Then the taunt is two-fold giving MIB wine he can't even enjoy.

    I also noticed the tree under which Richard buried the necklace and met with the MIB was a common shape/type for the Tree of Knowledge in biblical representation. I think this tree will have significance in the future. Have we seen it before?? I can't remember.

    And my favorite moment was Richard's giggle at the beginning of the ep - classic.

    #150. Posted by: Angie at March 24, 2010 2:23 PM

    Could that Tree of Knowledge been in the Garden of Eden? Ricard walked through two small pillars, like a gate to a park to get to the bench. And MIB seemed to like the location. Maybe that is how MIB got there, he is the Snake and was punished for what he did to Adam and Eve

    #151. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 24, 2010 2:31 PM

    Maybe i missed someone saying this...why can't Richard's service to Jacob be that penance he was to be denied through hanging? The Priest, with his warm pew-side manner, saw an opportunity from God to provide "mercy on his soul", as he requested. Sell Richard to Hanso so he lives and has a chance to complete his penance. And in the last episode we learn that he has, just before Richard dies.

    #152. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 24, 2010 2:36 PM

    Can anyone answer my questions?
    Why did Jacob ask Richard if he talked to a man in black? I could swear when MIB got up after giving RA the knife he wasn't wearing black, in fact I thought he looked like he was wearing "Other" rags. Can someone look at that scene again and post?

    Someone posted Flocke was watching the Hurley/Richard/Isabella encounter but I don't remember that either. Can someone confirm?

    #153. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at March 24, 2010 2:44 PM

    #153: Kompletely Lost: Questions:

    The very last scene of the episode showed FLocke watching the Hurley/Richard/Isabella encounter from a distance.

    Re MIB wearing black: I don't have any screen caps to confirm it, but I'm fairly certain that MIB was wearing his customary black shirt during his initial encounter w/Richard. I think if he had not been wearing black, it would have stood out more.

    #154. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 24, 2010 2:56 PM

    @150:

    Shouldn't a die-hard LOST fan remember when we see FLocke for the first time, he is eating fruit. In fact, the best he's ever tasted?

    While I'm posting, why did the guy say "May God have mercy on your soul" if he'd just said "You're going to Hell to be with the devil"

    #155. Posted by: BostonSteve at March 24, 2010 3:00 PM

    I can't believe all of you guys missed the biggest reveal of all. HANSO. This explains how Hanso got to the Island and started the whole Dharma thing.

    #156. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 24, 2010 3:04 PM

    he was in black; he did say "did you met a man in the jungle dressed in black?"; Flocke did watch them

    #157. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 24, 2010 3:04 PM

    I did a search and didn't see this pop up, so here goes:

    Did anyone else catch the section of the Bible Ricardo had open when the priest came to see him? It was from Luke - Chapter 4. Part of what I saw flash across the screen related to Jesus teaching that a prophet is never received by his own. That is, Jesus was in Nazareth and people really only accepted him as Joseph's son - NOT as the Son of God.

    I have to wonder how this relates to the story, let alone WHICH character it might relate to. The producers have a clear history of putting books and references in the show and they typically tie in somehow. I'm fairly certain this was not a random page he had open.

    Peace!

    #158. Posted by: scubagaunt at March 24, 2010 3:06 PM

    2 quick things. When MIB tells Richard that Jacob can be very 'convincing', it reminded me of Kate telling Claire or someone that she could be very convincing when she had to be...

    And...when Jacob and MIB meet at the end of the show, they are sitting under the large tree but is it the current island time, since the tree is grown v. when we first see MIB under it. I am asking because if MIB says he wants to kill Jacob, is he dead yet or did he ever die? Sorry if this is confusing but I'm confused..

    #159. Posted by: almostlost at March 24, 2010 3:07 PM

    It seems that before Jacob was killed, when we saw smokey we always heard a sound like a chain being unwound from where it was tethered. Now the sound is more like a broken chain that clicks as it hit the ground. Just an observation that smokey is no longer chained to the island.

    #160. Posted by: george at March 24, 2010 3:10 PM

    @#49. Posted by: Schiano

    BAHAHAHAHHA!! You made me laugh. You cuss like a sailor, er, I mean, like Hanso.

    #161. Posted by: Skipper at March 24, 2010 3:25 PM

    @#88.glostover
    OK, I'm going to bring it up again. I think the bottle with the cork was another hint that MIB is a djinn - i.e., a genie in a bottle wanting to be free?
    **********
    I’m a genie in a bottle, gonna love you the right way…..J/K

    Actually, I noticed that a Genie grants 3 wishes and Richard asked for 3 things before Jacob finally granted one of them.

    #162. Posted by: Skipper at March 24, 2010 3:27 PM

    Why did Ben go looking for smokey in order to be judged for killing Alex? Why would Ben need to be judged by smokey if Ben’s allegiance is with Jacob? Is EVERYONE working for smokey under the guise that he’s Jacob?

    And I'm so glad that hundreds of people had to die just so that Jacob could try to prove a point to his "friend". The "point" is yet to be proven, by the way. Let's say Jacob actually makes his point and people come to the island and don't get corrupt. Then what? I pose a big phat, "SO?"

    #163. Posted by: Skipper at March 24, 2010 3:31 PM

    I get the feeling that Jacob and MIB are the same person. It is the struggle that all people fight balancing themselves. They are not two distinct people as we think they are. That's why they have civil conversations. It is the internal struggle of man of good angel on one shoulder and bad angel on the other.

    #164. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 24, 2010 3:33 PM

    #156. ALEX ANGEL: Biggest reveal of all:

    Sorry, but no. Capt. Magnus Hanso died upon arriving on the island, either in the wreck of the Black Rock, or in the Smokey attack shortly thereafter. There was no way he could have started anything to do w/DHARMA.

    #165. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 24, 2010 3:36 PM

    I had to watch the show on my slingbox since i'm overseas - super grainy and didn't see much detail, which is why I need your help, posters. Can someone tell me if the knife that MIB gave to Richard is the same knife that Dogen gave to Sayid?

    #166. Posted by: Skipper at March 24, 2010 3:36 PM

    Jorge Garcia's Podcast for Ab Aeterno is up, with special guest star Nestor Carbonell.

    He reveals two 'casting' bits that aren't really spoilers, because they have nothing to do with the actual story, but are interesting production tidbits.

    Nevertheless, if you don't want to learn anything that wasn't revealed directly on the show, consider this a

    ***** SPOILER WARNING !!! *****

    Remember all the speculation about who was the figure in the chair in the three frame shot in "The Man Behind the Curtain"? Some people guesssed Dennis Hopper, my own guess was Michael Gross. Well, Jorge reveals the ghostly 'Jacob' figure was .....
    .
    .
    .
    (wait for it)
    .
    .
    .
    Rob Kiker - a props guy on the set.

    ---

    Also, in the episode where Hurley stumbles on the cabin in the woods, looks in and sees Christian in a chair, then a bloodshot eye appears in the hole Hurley is looking through, freaking Hurley out......

    The eye belongs to....

    A guy Jorge can't remmeber the name of, but he's the one reading off the number on the hatch cover as the Swan station is buing built in a late S-5 episode.

    #167. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 24, 2010 3:42 PM

    1. I don't see how the Black Rock could have smashed the stone statue without suffering more damage itself.

    2. I got the impression that the Black Rock's original route was to be from the Canary Islands to the Caribbean. Jacob must have some real power to "pull" a ship all the way from the Canary Islands, in the east Atlantic, to Lost Island in the Pacific.

    #168. Posted by: peggy at March 24, 2010 3:46 PM

    Sorry I am so late to the party. A catastrophe of EPIC proportions happened yesterday....our cable went out. For over 12 hours! Seriously. No Tv. No iternet. No Lost. I was absolutely out of my mind. Apparently, the wind took down a huge transformer and wiped out service throughout several communities in our area. Yes, that really did happen and you should have seen me storming around and raging at 8:45 at night.

    Needless to say, I just had the chance to view the episode on Hulu (love that!) but have not read comments yet. More later once I have a chance to get through everyone's posts. Thanks, Mac for a fab review!

    #169. Posted by: GatorGal at March 24, 2010 3:46 PM

    @165 Alaïs_Longthough

    All speculation. Nothing is ever revealed that Richard was the only survivor or that Hanso did not get away. Maybe Jacob saved Hanso before Smokey got there to start Dharma?

    #170. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 24, 2010 3:49 PM

    @Peggy / 168 -- I was playing with that same idea last night. I'm guessing that the island moved at some point from the Atlantic to the Pacific. We know it's capable of such things, and the charts and graphs and very long equations in Mrs. Hawking's Lamp Post suggested it's moved many times before.

    #171. Posted by: mac at March 24, 2010 3:52 PM

    I recall a crew man stating that Capt Hanso was dead, before the smoke monster showed up to kill the remaining crew.

    #172. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2010 3:56 PM

    @170 ALEX_ANGEL

    It was ALVAR Hanso who founded the Dharma initiative. Capt. Magnus Hanso was his great grandfather.

    #173. Posted by: stan at March 24, 2010 4:19 PM

    @ALEX ANGEL, Alais & welh

    re: Hanso being dead
    I mentioned in an earlier post that I question Hanso's "death" because we never saw him on screen alive or dead. I thought that was very strange and wondered if it could mean something fishy was going on, hmmmmm...

    @Undauntid...Hope all went well!

    @GatorGal...My sympathies! I think that I would need tranquilizers if that happened, especially for the much-anticipated Richard back story!

    @shikotee...Archie's best friend was Jughead, amiright? That bomb on the other hand, I have no clue ;-) Sorry I couldn't be of assistance Cecil.

    @davidrh...FYI, every time a post starts with, "I haven't read the posts yet, but I just wanted to say..." I let loose with a very loud AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH in your honor even if I don't post them. I've done it several times today. It is very freeing!

    #174. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 24, 2010 4:19 PM

    Sorry quick correction: Alvar Hanso helped fund the Dharma Initiative; he wasn't the founder - the DeGroots were.

    #175. Posted by: sta at March 24, 2010 4:25 PM

    @167 Cecil...Really, a prop guy? Oh, the hours of discussion, and it was a prop guy. Guess we don't need to see screen caps of those anymore. LOL!

    #176. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 24, 2010 4:27 PM

    @174/ lost2theworld:
    A suspicious death on LOST(?)
    As in, how did the ship's log get to the auction house if all the crew men were dead?

    I suspect TPTB had no time to add a Hanso actor and story line, so that arc, like many others, will wind up fading away.

    #177. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2010 4:28 PM

    Loved this episode, and everything I wanted to add has been added, except I caught that when MIB said to Jacob that he just wanted to leave the island, it reminded me of Juliette saying to Ben "Just let me leave" after another pregnant woman died. Doesn't mean anything, but I had to post something after this info filled episode.

    #178. Posted by: Rudy at March 24, 2010 4:29 PM

    Doc Jensen has a 12 page(?!) recap up. Anyone wanna read it and give me the cliff notes version? ;-)

    #179. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 24, 2010 4:35 PM

    Yowie! 172 contributions by the time I turned to the blog! Has everyone been laid off by the floundering economy? So apologies for repeated opinions--I will read them later and apologize again, contritely. My opinion of the dead Isabella visiting Ricardo on the boat was that she was not MIB but rather an apparition to a man deranged by grief, hunger, thirst, boar terror, and snake like smoke with lightning in side that smashed people to pieces. That Ricardo told her to run when he heard smokey returning does not prove that she is not MIB, but it did suggest it. I changed my opinion a bit when she appeared to Hurley, both with and, on the beach, without Richard. Is this an island of spirits as well? Is it a nexus between this world and the next where people parted by death can get caught up and give good advice?

    And my bet is on Hurley as the ultimate replacement of Jacob. His dead people talking skills are getting better and he is adopting some pretty serious miens.

    I will really have to watch this episode again, particularly the three way conversation with Ricardo, Hurley, and Isabella.

    Now I go back and read 172 (probably 200 by now) posts.

    #180. Posted by: August Paul at March 24, 2010 4:55 PM

    Re: the "new world"... that would include all of North and South America. Ricardo and Isabella might have intended to go to Mexico or Peru.

    Smokey is not scanning people to determine their level of sin, he's scanning people to determine their susceptibility to his manipulation.

    Maybe I am missing something, but why does the island have to have moved with regard to The Black Rock? If that ship was headed to Chile (for instance) it would have rounded Cape Horn and been in the Pacific.


    #181. Posted by: undauntid at March 24, 2010 5:36 PM

    @ #173. Posted by: stan

    I know that Alvar started it but how did he find the Island? Magnus must have lured him there somehow or someway. TPTB must fill us in on the whole Dharma thing since it was the main focus for 4 seasons. How did they end up there? Why the Island? What was their purpose. I bet it all starts from Magnus.

    #182. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 24, 2010 5:43 PM

    Thank all of you for your well wishes in my job hunt! I thought the interview went well. I applied for a different position, but was called in for this higher position on the basis of my experience, so that bodes well. I made the two men who interviewed me laugh out loud and they smiled broadly throughout the interview. We will see what we will see.
    Thank you again for your kind words.

    #183. Posted by: undauntid at March 24, 2010 5:43 PM

    @ #53
    Anyone else remember when Ben first met Richard? Ben told him he had seen his dead mother, and Richard wanted to know one thing: did she die on the Island? I think we saw last night why. Was the MIB luring young Benjamin into the jungle even then?

    It seems logical that Smokey can only make loved ones appear after he has "scanned" you. So Ben must have had an encounter with Smokey at some time before meeting Richard. AND remember that Ben can "call" on Smokey for help.

    Hurley is my first choice too but he is becoming more and more mysterious to me. Something is up with him. Flocke was watching the whole time Hurley was translating to Richard. I wonder....was that Flocke materializing as Isabella? Hurley clearly adds the bit about killing MIB.

    @#111 and Sayid (the new MIB?)

    I don't think there could be a replacement for MIB because if he gets released then all hell breaks loose...and if he doesn't get loose then there does need to be a replacement for Jacob to keep him on the island. I don't think it is possible to kill MIB. Dogen wanted MIB to kill Sayid.

    @#120 LOL!!!! I was laughing so hard at this one!!! Thanks!

    That's all I got for now.

    #184. Posted by: jms at March 24, 2010 6:05 PM

    One more thing...sorry.

    As for the storm I don't think we need to doubt that anyone who could bestow immortality to someone could conjure up one huge storm of epic propotions that would take out the statue and land 300 feet inland.

    #185. Posted by: jms at March 24, 2010 6:07 PM

    davidrh just threw my stone into the water.
    #143. Posted by: glostover

    Actually post number 142 was supposed to be: HEY! A Duet!

    But I hit the post button by accident early.

    #186. Posted by: davidrh at March 24, 2010 6:21 PM

    If Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island, did he not cause the destruction of the statue? Is this pointing to the fact at that moment, his micro-Egyptian island lab rats had been killed off, resetting the experiment?

    And if the whole purpose of bringing souls to the island to see if they were good, bad or corrupt, Smokey-MIB did not waste a second in killing off the entire Black Rock crew (who never had a chance to even leave the ship after it crashed in the jungle). No test shown; pure violence.

    #187. Posted by: welh at March 24, 2010 6:22 PM

    @109. Posted by: Stock - Hurley doesn't lie, so if it was Jacob, Hurley still thought it was Isabella.

    @125. Posted by: LockeBox - Oh, yes, let's help undauntid practice her interview! "How do you handle conflict?" "Well, I haven't shot or stabbed anyone because I know they won't die anyway, so I make empty promises instead." - maybe you *will* need a lot of luck with us helping. ;)

    @127. Posted by: Cecil Rose - Ummm...Archie? Veronica?

    @169. Posted by: GatorGal - I feel your pain. I'm in Australia this season & having an awful time watching the current show.

    @@52. Posted by: sandivon - Here's the Spanish I got, it's about 4:30 in....

    ¿Qué?
    ¿Qué va a hacer?
    Si, yo puedo ayudar pero...
    Yo no sé como encontrarlo si no se....

    What?
    What are you going to do?
    Yes, I can help but...
    I don't know how to find him/it if ...not...
    I didn't catch the last verb after "no se"

    I'm not a native speaker, but I would've said "encontrarle" for "find him" - "encontrarlo" would be "find it" - but it could be dialectical usage or a common grammatical error, just like in any language.

    #188. Posted by: hurling at March 24, 2010 6:39 PM

    Ab Aeterno Haiku.

    Richard survives wreck,
    Stands between heaven and heck,
    Bachelors live longer.
    ----or----
    Fred and Ethel feud,
    Cruise ship can't find Havana,
    Ricardo (less Lucy).

    #189. Posted by: MorBid0@acninc.net at March 24, 2010 6:41 PM

    To me, the episode was just fair. Yes, it was good to get Richard's "origin" story. It confirmed much of what we had already pretty much ascertained about Richard. He got to the island via the Black Rock. He received a "gift" from Jacob that enabled him to not age. He had previously encountered the Man in Black. He is the island consigliere.

    The most significant thing I took away from this episode was that Richard taught Jacob something I don't think he had ever considered before. In his conversation with Richard, Jacob freely admits that he brought people to the island...many times, in fact. However, he did not interact with them directly once there. MiB seems to have no problem interacting directly with people once they get to the island. Whether as smokey, as MiB, or as someone near and dear and departed, MiB interacts directly both verbally and physically. Jacob seemed particularly intent in discovering what exactly MiB did with Richard before their beach play. Richard said to him something along the lines of well, why don't you guide them. then Jacob asks Richard if he wants a job...the job as that guide...as Jacob's intermediary. I think Jacob got a glimpe of what MiB was doing and how he planned to get around the island rules, and Jacob "countered" that move by installing Richard as advisor.

    #190. Posted by: Gumbo at March 24, 2010 7:05 PM

    Re: the numerous posts regarding the ship since from shore by MIB and Jacob and when the Black Rock tore through the statue. Why should that be surprizing? How many times on the Island have we seen it go from sunshine to Torrential downpours and looking as dark as night?? I just chalked it up to wierd weather on the Island

    Am I the only one that saw the blue butterfly??

    I do correct myself that it was just before the pig appeared at Richards side and not Isabella

    #191. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 24, 2010 7:32 PM

    re: 35 and 191 - butterfly
    just finished rewatch. Yes I saw it, what is that about??

    #192. Posted by: mtncbn at March 24, 2010 7:54 PM

    @75/Crazyhorse: "Widmore is working for/with MIB? Or perhaps being manipulated by MIB?"

    @106/shikotee: "I was hoping the episode would flesh out how Richard becomes involved with the Others. Are they already on the island?"

    @163/Skipper: "Why did Ben go looking for smokey in order to be judged for killing Alex?"

    I think there may be a similar answer to all three questions. Prior to Jacob enlisting Richard's help, all the previous island arrivals had either been killed by Smokey or self-destructed.

    Richard becomes the island advisor, and slowly builds a successful, small on-island society of carefully selected "Others".

    Since Jacob refuses to interact with anyone other than Richard, apparently all of the so far seen Others leaders- Widmore, Hawking and Ben- had no interaction with Jacob and quite possibly did not know what he looked like, or where he lived.

    The interaction that the Others have with a spiritual presence on island is actually MIB, who has no problem manipulating them as part of his long con "loophole" plan.

    **********

    @105/Selmie26?: "Is there some kind of weather barrier around the island that helps to protect it from being found by outsiders? And the weather does not affect island hopping on the canoe or the Other’s/Tom’s boat, which somehow Michael used to escape the island."

    @108/LostIsFound: "Which also would mean Walt and Michael went through a pretty nasty storm to get off the island."

    The arrival of the freighter crew went to great lengths to explain that safe access to/from the island could only happen if a very specific navigational heading was followed, which is how both the sub and Michael's boat were able to safely travel from the island.

    Failure to navigate this heading led to not only wreckage of incoming boats (or years later, planes and helicopters), but to time shifts as well.

    ************

    @156/ALEX ANGEL: "This explains how Hanso got to the Island and started the whole Dharma thing."

    @177/welh: "As in, how did the ship's log get to the auction house if all the crew men were dead?"

    As Alais and welh have pointed out, the crew clearly called out that Hanso was dead, before Smokey made his appearance.

    The easiest explanation to the log is that a future ship arrives and/or crashes on to the island, finds the wreckage of the Black Rock, and some members of that second crew make it off island with the ship's log.

    The Hanso family would be searching for an answer to the disapearance of Magnus, leading to their eventual acquisition of the log.

    #193. Posted by: Mizzed at March 24, 2010 8:07 PM

    @#166. Posted by: Skipper
    Yes, same knife.

    #194. Posted by: mtncbn at March 24, 2010 8:10 PM

    #189. Posted by: MorBid0@acninc.net

    Hilarious...

    #195. Posted by: sandivon at March 24, 2010 8:11 PM

    How did Jacob survive the tsunami/wreckage of statue? That was one big wave!

    #196. Posted by: mtncbn at March 24, 2010 8:16 PM

    Anyone know why MIB and Jacob both speak with American accents? If they have been on the Island for centuries surely they would not have American accents? Angels, Egyptian demi-gods, genies, laprauchans, stranded-on-Earth aliens... how would they speak???

    #197. Posted by: weepict at March 24, 2010 8:18 PM

    Apologies regarding my post @ 19.

    Usually if Lost is on I won't let anyone around me talk, lest I be distracted or miss an important line, yet last week I was visiting my parents during spring break and I must have missed that scene while we were catching up.

    I meant to watch the episode again since I didn't really get to pay full attention (and I usually watch each episode at least 2 to 4 times just to catch what some of you comment about) but alas I was busy and didn't get the chance.

    Great posts so far though, just want to thank Mac and everyone for all their contributions. I followed this blog since about season 3 (mainly straight to the forums after reading Mac's review) but have really enjoyed contributing (or trying to anyways) for this last season.

    Only a handful left to go...

    #198. Posted by: csmithfdub at March 24, 2010 8:23 PM

    I think the jacob is the angel referred to in revelation 20:

    "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand. He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while."

    MIB is Satan and he is bound in chains (that is the chain-like sound whenever Smokey comes looking for prey).

    The wine bottle represents the abyss - the bottomless pit that MIB resides in (under the temple and the island).

    The island represents the locked door to the abyss and Jacob is the angel responsible for keeping him in the abyss - although he has enough rope to wander the island, he can't leave.

    That's my theory after last night!

    #199. Posted by: tim at March 24, 2010 8:55 PM

    George @ 160

    I also thought that the noise sounded different, not sure what it means, or if its important. It getting harder to know what's important and whats not.

    I also like the earlier post about MIB and Jacob being one and the same...that wouldn't surprise me

    #200. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 24, 2010 9:03 PM

    im happy with this episode,
    i moaned a while back about not having a richard episode so no point in complaining when i do get 1,
    when i saw the black rock smash into the taweret statue my mind jumped back to the tapestry ilana took from the cabin & showed to bram,
    it had the exact event woven on it.

    #201. Posted by: san at March 24, 2010 9:06 PM

    Although this goes back a bit, I recalled the "interview" that Richard gave to Locke as a child, and realize now exactly why the selection of a knife by Locke was so deeply troubling to Richard.

    #202. Posted by: The Duf at March 24, 2010 9:11 PM

    Okay, I have read through 111. I sense a theme here.....

    1) MIF
    b) GRAA, mac
    i) There seems to be major discussion on the storm when the Black Rock "set ground on the shore of this uncharted desert isle" vs. the scene at the end of season 5 with Jacob and MIB on the beach.

    I believe that ship was the Black Rock as well, and it appeared to be reasonably close. When the Ajira flight landed day changed to night, or night changed into day. I forget which, but the point is that it changed. I believe that the weather could have changed as well. It all makes perfect sense to me, but I don't understand anything about this show! :-D

    #203. Posted by: onelostdude at March 24, 2010 9:28 PM

    Hurling: Hurley does lie, he is just very bad at it (time shift conversation with Miles' dad and what year it was.) Which makes sense, cause his discomfort is the thing that I found odd when he told Richard that the man in black had to be stopped.

    As for the ship's route, how do we know where it was going????

    Richard just said he wanted to go to the new world. Hanso was collecting slaves, why is a question we don't know the answer to. SO going near the island is not that far out.

    One other thing, Hurley running the island??? No seriously, Hurley couldn't run a Chicken Shack.

    Now Kate, that is a great suggestion.

    #204. Posted by: Stock at March 24, 2010 9:35 PM

    @106 Shikotee mentions leaning towards Widmore not being on Jacob's side. I agree after we've figured out that Jacob doesn't give much info. MIB, (after 3 punches to knock out Richard) said Jacob kept Richard in the dark, but he, on the other hand, would have told Richard everything. Then Widmore made a comment to Sawyer about how amazingly little he (Sawyer) knew. That seemed like both Widmore and MIB were making comments against Jacob. Or...maybe Widmore was commenting against MIB who had sent Sawyer.

    Like, wehl, I am also wondering why Jacob would have caused his own statue-for-a-house to get destroyed by a storm he likely caused.

    Also, I am intrigued that 2 (107 &111) people on this blog used the term consigliere. No wonder I feel smarter after I read this blog!

    #205. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 24, 2010 10:33 PM

    I wasn't that thrilled about the episode because it merely told longtime viewers of this blog what we already surmised: Richard came on the boat and he was made immortal.

    I was hoping for a "Richard Alpert: The Island Years" showing his relation to each of the eras. (Even the one with the bomb named ???) Instead we got Richard accidentally killed some rich guy and was sold into slavery by a corrupt clergyman. Oh well.

    I thought earlier today that Hurley was going to be the new Jacob but now I think it will be Sawyer. I thought Hurley because he is able to talk to all the dead people which Jacob also seems able to do but now, based on some of the comments here, I think it will be Sawyer because he is almost a mirror image of Jacob's story. At first he was a jerk and willing to fight everyone but after living in the 70's he mellowed out and still was willing to do what's right. He is essentially good but knows when to be bad and can fight dirty when necessary. Hurley might take Richard's role as intermediary to MIB and Sawyer since he follows orders so well.

    Just throwing this out there as a time frame guess. There was a point after the Indian Ocean tsunami/earthquake we discussed Charlie setting it off (season 3, ep. 21). We also didn't know the island could move and pooh-poohed the idea because the island was supposed to be in the Pacific Ocean not the Indian Ocean. Maybe the Krakatoa explosion (1883) set off the tsunami which carried the Black Rock inland? It would put Richard on the ship 16 years later but who knows?

    @70/Ken Siegel: Alpert is not a Spanish name but Herb Alpert had a Tijuana Brass!

    #206. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 24, 2010 10:55 PM

    I have been thinking of Eloise Hawking of late. Wife or lover of Charles Widmore. Apparent leader of the Others for a time. She was a friend of the Abbot of the monastary where Desmond flunked out of Monk school. Her picture was on his desk. It was at the Monastary that Desmond met Penny. It was the shop where Desmond bought an engagement ring for Penny that Eloise told him about the immutability of the future. Did Charles and Eloise use Penny to get him to the island? If so, to what purpose? If so, was Penny a party to this? And Eloise did tell Desmond that the island wasn't done with him yet. And Eloise raised her son to be able to control time so that she could kill him before he was born. Does this woman have a yet unidentified relationship with the island? With Jacob? With the MIB? With Richard Alpert? Or is she just a fancier of Foucault's Pendulum, vintage electronics, and island vacations?

    #207. Posted by: August Paul at March 24, 2010 10:57 PM

    @54. DW: There is no magic box. It's a metaphor.

    @75. Crazyhorse: I'm inclined to think Widmore is on his own side!

    @82. BEMH: ARGH! Ilana NEVER said she thought Frank was a candidate! ARGH!!!!

    @103. HurleyIsHot: Who says they didn't USE to be candidates? Miles used to be one, but isn't any more.

    @113. Three Men and a Baby (I counted Hugo twice): Seriously?!? I thought you were joking the first time, but with all the important things left to work out, you care about a guy we never even say on screen (except in a driver's license photo)?!? Next you'll be asking for a Kelvin Inman episode...

    @121. lostatwork: True, they could have been going to Australia or New Zealand. Or get this, you might have heard the Island moves. Why is everyone assuming it only moves around the Pacific?

    @138. Mischa: Sorry, since you can't be bothered to read our posts, I can't be bothered to read yours.

    @171. mac: Hey mac! I like that idea!

    @181 Undauntid: hope you knocked the socks off of them! But why on Earth would Richard, who speaks Spanish fluently, learn English in order to move to Peru?!?


    #208. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 24, 2010 11:14 PM

    Has anyone noticed that the Internet Movie Data Base lists the casts of all the Lost episodes and more importantly, the titles of the episodes we have not yet seen. Could be a spoiler or a tease depending on you look at it. If you're interested start at:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1467629/

    for next weeks episode and click next in the upper right.

    #209. Posted by: August Paul at March 24, 2010 11:33 PM

    Why does MIB kill people?

    #210. Posted by: August Paul at March 24, 2010 11:41 PM

    So many posts and still so many questions. In fact they're the same questions I'm still asking myself. Here's a few thoughts I'm still pondering and will probably still be thinking about in September!

    The sounds of the smoke monster appeared while Richard was seeing Isabella. If Isabella was the smoke monster does that mean the smoke monster can split apart? We've seen small puffs of it in the forest and then there was the train size version that attacked Keamy and crew. Could there be more than one?

    Were there any other people on the island when Richard arrived? Just who are the people Richard was running around with. If they were not candidates then why did Jacob bring them there knowing MIB would use them or kill them?

    I don't think Richard was a candidate. His ship crashing onto the island was probably a mistake or why else wasn't he chosen to replace Jacob?

    Why didn't Miles see Isabella when Hurley was talking to her on the beach?

    I wonder what the qualifications are to be a candidate. Surviving the smoke monster maybe.

    Has anyone considered that the progress that Jacob is talking about is the MIB's repentence? Maybe that's how you kill a smoke monster.

    Just how long has Jacob been looking for his replacement and why.

    And, my first thought when I saw the tree was of Judas. He's a major character missing in our story so far. Can anyone identify the type of tree?

    Mac's site is so therapeutic. It's like being in group therapy. Everyone understands each other.

    #211. Posted by: pebspostal at March 25, 2010 12:20 AM

    I can't answer all of your questions, but Miles doesn't see dead people. He reads the last thoughts of dead bodies. Isabella's body was never on the Island, so he can't know anything about her.

    #212. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 25, 2010 12:23 AM

    Thanks FenwayBen for a prompt reply.

    I also thought Miles could only read the dead, but he confuses me because he knew who Michael was when he arrived at the boat and he also knew about Charlotte having lived on the island. Off the top of my head I can't remember any other instances of mind reading but those two have always stood out.

    #213. Posted by: pebspostal at March 25, 2010 12:31 AM

    #208 FenwayBen "But why on Earth would Richard, who speaks Spanish fluently, learn English in order to move to Peru?!?"

    Well, ummmm, yes, there's that. lmao


    #214. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 12:50 AM

    I'm one day late in watching the episode and joining the party on this blog, and there are over 200 comments already. :) GRAA Mac! Let's start reading the comments and commenting.

    ....some time later....

    I got to post 106, but I have to call it a day now. So apologies if anything I'm going to say here appeared in a post after 106 already.


    -Regarding the commenters that suggested the scene in The Incident was another ship: I also found it interesting that during the Jacob-MIB conversation at the end of this week's episode MIB had to explain to Jacob why he wants to kill him. In The Incident iirc Jacob seemed aware of this desire of MIB's.

    -Jacob's usage of the word "sin" when talking to Richard is interesting. He seems to be using religious language to manipulate the extremely religious Richard.


    -A couple of weeks ago there was some hypothesizing (might have been Doc Jensen on EW) that the ALT Locke we saw in dr. Linus was actually Flocke. Since, as noted, the "cork" that keeps MIB trapped is missing in ALT world, or better, has sunk, this suddenly seems like a possibility.

    -In all the posts I've read up until now everyone seems to accept that Hurley really saw Isabelle at the end of the episode. Dude, she's dead dude! That wasn't Isabella, dead people don't do stuff. Well, perhaps Jacob does, but he's the only exception I'm making until conclusively shown otherwise. And even Jacob could still be just Hurley's vivd imagination. I'm positing that `Isabelle' was Douchey McDouchealot creeping into Hurley's head to manipulate Richard into returning to Camp White.

    #215. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 25, 2010 1:16 AM

    Is EVERYONE just ignoring the obvious connection between Jacob and MIB and the biblical story of the twin sons of Issac, Jacob and Esau?

    Jacob (Yaakov, “One that takes by the heel”)

    Esau (from the Hebrew word “osso” -- finish)

    The betrayal? The losing of the birthright (island)? The rise of Jacob to become "Israel".

    http://bit.ly/bqtdRN

    PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME IM NOT GOING CRAZY HERE

    #216. Posted by: King Richard Lear Henry at March 25, 2010 2:06 AM

    @#216. Posted by: King Richard Lear Henry

    It's not being ignored. It's been mentioned a hundred times on this blog and other blogs. I think people are keeping their baskets full of several theories (including the jacob?Esau theory) as to not invest all of their hard earned theorizing in just 1 possible theory only to be disproved ever 7 days. Did I say theory enough times?

    #217. Posted by: Skipper at March 25, 2010 2:13 AM

    Several people are wondering if Isabella really told Hurley to tell Richard that he needs to kill MIB - or did Hurley just make that last part up? The reason I think that it was actually Isabella telling Hurley (off screen) is that we don't hear Hurley refer to Smokey/Flock/MIB as "Man In Black." How would he have known to call him that unless Isabella really did give him that message? Right, guys?

    #218. Posted by: Skipper at March 25, 2010 2:17 AM

    @194. Posted by: mtncbn

    @#166. Posted by: Skipper
    Yes, same knife.

    Not that any of this matters but......

    MIB gives Richard a special knife to use to kill Jacob. 175 years later, Dogen gives this same knife to Sayid to kill MIB. I propose that Dogen really DID want Sayid to kill MIB because he gave him the special knife to do it with. IF dogen was just setting Sayid up so that Flocke could kill him then why go to the trouble of giving him the special knife – why not regift him a knife you got for Christmas that you didn’t really like?

    #219. Posted by: Skipper at March 25, 2010 2:24 AM

    Re: Storm vs Nice Day Black Rock arrival. It's possible the ship was near or on the island before the storm... maybe when the storm hit they were already trying to leave the area... like Desmond in Libby's boat, they just went in a circle. More likely, Jacob snapped his fingers and WHAM, there was an instant, island-electromagnetism-powered, semi-supernatural storm. Is that thin?

    #220. Posted by: Pete at March 25, 2010 2:56 AM

    @164 Posted by: ALEX ANGEL

    Interesting theory...Jacob and MIB being the same person. Their conversations are calm and I have also noticed that they are always side by side when they talk.

    @191 Posted by lostncyberspace re: blue butterfly

    YES...I saw the butterfly. How odd was that...? Definitely means something, but no freakin' idea what it means...

    #221. Posted by: Boodle at March 25, 2010 7:57 AM

    Uh... so if the scene we saw in the season opener of the island at the bottom of the ocean is true, does that mean the cork got pushed into the wine bottle, so to speak, and is floating around in the evilness? Or that all the evil seeped out? FYI, here is the quote that (kinda sorta) explains this concept:

    "Think of this wine as what you keep calling hell," Jacob tells Richard Alpert, holding the wine bottle. "There's many other names for it too--malevolence, evil, darkness, and here it is, swirling around in the bottle unable to get out because if it did, it would spread. The cork is this island. And it's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs."

    #222. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 8:09 AM

    MILD SPOILER BELOW.................


    More Four-Play:

    Now that we know that the four-letter word that describes what the island is CORK, the producers have tossed out a NEW four-letter word...a word that "describes what this series is ultimately all about."

    This word:

    - has no As

    - does have one E

    - will be revealed during episode 11 (not next week but the week after in the ep titled "Happily Ever After.")

    - just might end up connecting the two worlds (the island and the Flash-Sideways)

    Hmmm. .. could it be LOVE? The strength and power of one's love for others like Jack's for David, Kate's for Aaron, Sawyer's for Juliet, Sun/Jin's for JiYeon?

    #223. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 8:19 AM

    PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME I’M NOT GOING CRAZY HERE - #217. Posted by: King Richard Lear Henry

    OK, let’s get something straight here . . . YOU ARE NOT CRAZY!

    There is a slight possibility that you are, however, addicted, absorbed, dependent, fanatical, habituated, obsessed, spaced out, strung out, overly analytical, catechized, probing, studious, excessive, progressive, thorough, uncompromising, agitated, iconoclastic, precocious, unconventional, nihilistic, militant in your perceptions, avaricious, avid, covetous, demanding, desirous, rapacious, voracious in your desire for answers, fixated, bedeviled, beset, bewitched, captivated, doggedly dominated, engrossed, infatuated, possessed, and constantly preoccupied by thoughts of Kate and Juliet wrestling in a mud hole, but that’s just normal.

    No doubt there’s a rider in the new health care sham . . eh, I mean, plan . . for such a problem as this. If you’ll just hang on for six more years, your predicament will be resolved.

    The Kate and Juliet mud hole problem? I’d hang on to that fantasy for as long as I could!

    Please, don’t thank me. Helping folks is what I do.

    #224. Posted by: davidrh at March 25, 2010 8:29 AM

    I really don't think that this has any real relevance to the storyline but it bothers me so I am asking. Why did the MIB need Locke's body? What happened to the one he has been occupying for seemingly centuries? I guess to win the trust of people that knew Locke? But they all seem to understand that he is not Locke so why?

    #225. Posted by: irishfan at March 25, 2010 8:40 AM

    If I may pick at a nit for just a second...it really bugged me at the time and I've yet to come to terms with it and it hasn't been mentioned yet.

    When Richard is digging the chains out of the wall and the boar rushes by and knocks the nail out of his hand, he attempts to retrieve it by using his tongue. As he is not Gene Simmons, he fails and weeps like a little girl. But then a scene or two later, we see that his feet are clearly unchained and he could've easily gotten the nail with his chimp-like feet.

    "Mornin' Sam."

    "Mornin' Ralph."

    Priceless.

    #226. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 25, 2010 9:21 AM

    ransomjackson - I had the same thought last night as I rewatched the episode.
    "USE YOUR FEET, MAN! USE YOUR FEET!!!!"

    #227. Posted by: davidrh at March 25, 2010 9:29 AM

    I think Filmfodder has screwed up the final "remaining" candidites.

    Kate is not one of the 4,8,15 etc numbers.

    The remaining comment is because Locke was a candidate and is now dead.

    Also, not really digging the hate on Jacob. I really like that character.

    Series will conclude with Sawyer and Locke on the beach watching a freighter or something come in replacing Jacob and MIB respectively.

    #228. Posted by: DD at March 25, 2010 9:29 AM

    @224 davidrh

    What thesaurus do you use? I need to buy it 'cause I'm jealous of your synonym skillz!

    #229. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 25, 2010 9:30 AM

    @206 PiecesofArzt:

    Ex-cell-ent! I too was immediately reminded of the excellent other Mr. Alpert and his Tijuana Brass. However, before we get too deep in hispanic theorizing, there's another school of thought that the "Richard Alpert" name was a call-out to the former name of Baba Ram Das, one of the Oregon guru's (Maharaj Gi) lieutenants.

    #230. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 25, 2010 9:32 AM

    @218 Skipper posited:

    >Several people are wondering if Isabella really told Hurley to tell Richard that he needs to kill MIB - or did Hurley just make that last part up?

    My recollection is that Hurley said (that Isabella said) that they have to keep MIB on the island, not kill him.

    #231. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 25, 2010 9:35 AM

    @226. ransomjackson: Yes, thought the same thing at the time - in fact, I thought, why doesn't he use his feet, they'd reach further, oh, his feet must be chained up, too.

    Also thought it was clumsy direction the way he held the nail out right in front of the charging boar. I thought he was trying to stab it, but apparently he was trying to have it knock the nail out of his hand.

    #232. Posted by: LockeBox at March 25, 2010 9:36 AM

    @224 davidrh diagnosed:
    (Or, alternatively Thesaurized:)

    >There is a slight possibility that you are, however, addicted, absorbed, dependent, fanatical, habituated, obsessed, spaced out, strung out, overly analytical, catechized, probing, studious, excessive, progressive, thorough, uncompromising, agitated, iconoclastic, precocious, unconventional, nihilistic, militant in your perceptions, avaricious, avid, covetous, demanding, desirous, rapacious, voracious in your desire for answers, fixated, bedeviled, beset, bewitched, captivated, doggedly dominated, engrossed, infatuated, possessed, and constantly preoccupied by thoughts of Kate and Juliet wrestling in a mud hole, but that’s just normal.

    I assume that'a a collective "you" referring to all of us.

    #233. Posted by: Cecil at March 25, 2010 9:41 AM

    @120 jk WarnerBrothered:

    >In the end when MIB was sitting there by the tree overlooking the landscape and Jacob came and sat next to him, am I the only one who fully expected them to say, "Mornin' Ralph." "Mornin' Sam."?

    >OK, I'm probably the only one.

    Only if there'd been a time clock nailed to that tree.

    #234. Posted by: Cecil at March 25, 2010 9:46 AM

    LONG ANSWER POST ALERT

    Many have asked about what the butterfly means. In some Japanese anime, it is used to represent a soul. But I decided to do further research and found:

    The Western view is that the butterfly is a carefree creature. The Dalai Lama explains that, rather than carefree, it is uncaring:

    "The butterfly never meets its mother. It must survive independently and remains a stranger to affection. An animal nurtured by mother's milk, however, is dependent on another for its basic survival. A child who grows up in a cold and detached home environment is similar to the butterfly, in that kindness is sparing. Once an adult, it will be very difficult for that person to show compassion."

    In other cultures, the butterfly is symbolic of rebirth after death.

    In the 1600s, in Ireland, killing a white butterfly was prohibited since it was believed to be the soul of a dead child.

    For Christians, the butterfly's three steps of metamorphosis -- as caterpillar, pupa and then winged insect -- are reminiscent of spiritual transformation.

    The caterpillar's incessant crawling and chewing reminds us of normal earthly life where people are often wholly preoccupied with physical needs. The chrysalis (cocoon) resembles a tomb and empty, can suggest the empty shroud left behind by Jesus. Therefore, a butterfly represents the resurrection into a new condition of life that is free of any material concerns.

    In images of the Garden of Eden, Adam's soul is symbolized by a butterfly, or drawn with butterfly wings. In paintings of Mary and her Child, the presence of butterflies stands for their care for human souls. The Gnostics depicted the Angel of Death by showing a winged foot stepping on a butterfly.

    Others have stated that since the insect is so fragile it can be torn apart by a hard rain, the butterfly stands for human frailty, both moral and physical. Also, as its life is not a long one, it is also a symbol of the ephemeral nature of physical existence.

    In America among the Aztec and Maya, the god of cosmic fire is symbolized by a butterfly. Fire is considered the element of transformation, as in cookery and the smelting of metals.

    The ancient Greeks depicted the spirit of a person as a winged stick figure. Interpretation of that symbol gave rise to the idea of the "soul" as a butterfly.

    The ancient Romans associated the butterfly with the wandering consciousness that seems to occur during the dream state.

    In science, there is The Butterfly Effect.

    This is an aspect of chaos theory: the way a seeming insignificant event can cause dramatic consequences.

    From wikipedia: The butterfly effect is a metaphor that encapsulates the concept of sensitive dependence on initial conditions in chaos theory; namely that small differences in the initial condition of a dynamical system may produce large variations in the long term behavior of the system. Although this may appear to be an esoteric and unusual behavior, it is exhibited by very simple systems: for example, a ball placed at the crest of a hill might roll into any of several valleys depending on slight differences in initial position.

    The butterfly effect is a common method in fiction when presenting scenarios involving time travel and with "what if" scenarios where one storyline diverges at the moment of a seemingly minor event resulting in two significantly different outcomes.

    #235. Posted by: welh at March 25, 2010 9:48 AM

    My wife and I were talking about "The New World" and by the mid 1800's when Richard was taking his 3 hour tour - they wouldn't be calling the America's The New World. That was a term used earlier in the 1500 and 1600's. Maybe just a hic-up in the script - or they were talking about Australia which could have been called that.

    Love the Mornin' Ralph - Mornin' Sam.

    #236. Posted by: dk at March 25, 2010 9:52 AM

    @218

    I've been one of the people questioning the validity of Hurley's statements to Richard at the end of the episode, but mainly because of the view we get of Flocke watching from afar. One important thing to remember, which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, is that according to Ilana, MIB is now trapped in that form. I take this to mean that he can either be Flocke or Smokey. If we take this to be true, then at the very least, Hurley wasn't being manipulated by MIB at the end of the episode.

    Even with this part kinda sorta figured out in my head, i'm still spinning with the thought that Jacob was atking the form of dead people off the island. And moreso at the idea that Hurley actually does see dead people. This show will drive me to drink.

    #237. Posted by: Cheese at March 25, 2010 10:02 AM

    What thesaurus do you use?
    #229. Posted by: lost2theworld

    Thesaurus!?! What Thesaurus!?!? I use those words every day in my job as the head dietician at the local Cinnabon franchise . . . Don’t you? . . .

    OK, I'm razzin' ya! Go to Thesaurus.com - It's a great site and very handy - obviously!

    #238. Posted by: davidrh at March 25, 2010 10:08 AM

    @FenwayBen #208

    "@82. BEMH: ARGH! Ilana NEVER said she thought Frank was a candidate! ARGH!!!!"

    Now now, Ben. Ilana DID say "he could be a candidate" in regard to Lapidus. It was while she, Bram & co. were bringing him out of the water. Why she said this when Jacob gave her a list, I know not.

    #239. Posted by: glostover at March 25, 2010 10:10 AM

    Still slogging through the comments, but commenting when I remember something I had wanted to comment on. I am still moved by the confrontation between Ilana and Ben where she thinks for a couple of seconds before saying to him, "I'll have you." Even the look she gave Ben on saying this was brilliant. This seems to me to be consistent with Jacob's appreciation of penitence, a sort of "all people are sinners but only the truly penitent can be saved and in particular saved for something useful, like MIB's keeper." I am thinking that Ilana, who has been on no one's list, might be the best candidate for Jacob's job now that there is an opening. Even her excellent job of beating up the seemingly unbeatable Sayid reminds me of Jacob's treatment of Ricardo in the water. If I were Ilana, I might just be thinking now "Where did Jacob come up with this dysfunctional bunch of characters?"

    #240. Posted by: August Paul at March 25, 2010 10:24 AM

    Dare we think TPTB had that old Chuck Jones/Warner Bros. cartoon in mind when they filmed that scene?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_and_Sheepdog

    If they did, the last six years have not been spent in gape-jawed futility.

    I mean, it's my understanding that they are lovers of comic books, and it's not so great a leap of faith to go from comic books to cartoons, and what greater source of inspiration could there be than Bugs and Daffy and Elmer and Foghorn?

    #241. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 25, 2010 10:25 AM

    Warning - ridiculous theory alert!
    However - I do believe the references to Ralph and Sam may well explain LOST. I too had the same thought as others watching the final Jacob/MIB scene. and here it is - from Wikipedia:
    "The series is built around the idea that both Ralph and Sam are just doing their jobs. Most of the cartoons begin at the beginning of the workday, in which they both arrive at a sheep-grazing meadow, exchange pleasant chitchat, and punch into the same time clock. Work having officially begun, Ralph repeatedly tries to abduct the helpless sheep and invariably fails, either through his own ineptitude or the minimal efforts of Sam, who always brutally punishes Ralph for the attempt. Ironically, Ralph works very hard at his job to catch a sheep and always fails while Sam works very little at his job (he is frequently seen asleep) to protect the sheep and always succeeds.

    At the end-of-the-day whistle, Ralph and Sam punch out their time cards, again chat amiably, and leave, presumably only to come back the next day and do it all again."

    #242. Posted by: LostinVT at March 25, 2010 10:25 AM

    @ #241. Posted by: ransomjackson

    SNAP!
    lol

    #243. Posted by: LostinVT at March 25, 2010 10:28 AM

    @231. Posted by: Cecil Rose
    My recollection is that Hurley said (that Isabella said) that they have to keep MIB on the island, not kill him.
    *******
    Oops, you're right, that's what I meant :)
    XO, S.

    #244. Posted by: Skipper at March 25, 2010 10:31 AM

    So SUN thinks she is a candidate, but I think she is wrong. It's either Jin or the baby. Jin was part of the original six in the 70's. It will turn out Jin has the past that will not be judged according to Jacob.

    #245. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 25, 2010 10:40 AM

    This episode leaves me thinking that Jacob is an a-hole. He brings people (most unknowingly or against their will) to this island, and leaves them to their own devices, whilst knowing a huge, pissed off pillar of smoke is lurking about ready to kill them for no apparent reason. And when asked about it he says it's not his place to intervene?

    I'd want to stab him and push him into a fire too, just sayin'.

    #246. Posted by: Artz Vandelay at March 25, 2010 10:41 AM

    @246. Posted by: Artz Vandelay
    This episode leaves me thinking that Jacob is an a-hole. He brings people (most unknowingly or against their will) to this island, and leaves them to their own devices, whilst knowing a huge, pissed off pillar of smoke is lurking about ready to kill them for no apparent reason. And when asked about it he says it's not his place to intervene?

    I'd want to stab him and push him into a fire too, just sayin'.
    _________

    But isn't that what God does to human kind? He brings us into this world against our will - we're just born, we don't have a say in it. Then he leaves us to fend for ourselves and hopes that we make good choices. Meanwhile the devil tempts us and tries to sway us away from what's right and good. God doesn't talk to us directly but he sends prophets to give us his message (hundreds of prophets have been sent). Isn't that the same thing that Richard does for Jacob?

    #247. Posted by: Isabella's Cross at March 25, 2010 10:57 AM

    - @ fenwayben - yes i thought about the island moving, but just wnated to throw out the other idea, but then again, you sox fans, always have to prove a point

    lol

    but, part of my rationale - was what dk said: they would not call the states the new world, that would be pre-dated to earlier times. The new world that i would think of would be nz and aust.

    #248. Posted by: lostatwork at March 25, 2010 11:04 AM

    Jacob is playing some sort of God Role where it is pure free will. He will not interfere except for the eternal life thing with Ricardo, which I wonder why they call him Ricardus? I found it very strange that with only 8 episodes left they dedicated a full one to a backstory without any fooming whatsoever until the end. Don't we deserve a Jacob and the Black Man backstory?

    #249. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at March 25, 2010 11:30 AM

    If you want to contain evil on a deserted island, Jacob, KEEP IT FREAKING DESERTED!

    Bringing people in is just stupid because it provides that evil you're so desperate to keep imprisoned with opportunities to screw you!

    #250. Posted by: Puck at March 25, 2010 11:36 AM

    @149. Posted by: Toner
    re: Evil in the world

    Man - you're making me think this is a secret season of Buffy!

    But yeah - I hear ya! It's not like the island contains all evil - just this particular flavour. Perhaps the story they will never tell is how in the early 1930's, a man named Adolf visited the island for a brief stretch, and then moved on?

    @177. Posted by: welh
    @193. Posted by: Mizzed
    re: ship's log

    I'm sure there are plenty of ways that the Black Rock logbook could have left the island. We've seen that several people have been able to leave and come back - who knows how many more have been able to do so. Any single one of them could have taken this with them, and sold it for some $$$.

    @201. Posted by: san
    re: tapestry

    Really? Good eye!


    @202. Posted by: The Duf
    re: child Locke interview by Richard

    First of all, at the least, I do hope they explain how Richard is able to leave and return to the island. So - you think the choice of the knife is a bad link to smokey? I don't get it, considering the knife was also used by Sayid in an attempt to whack smokey.


    @205. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso
    re: Widmore

    I'm also leaning towards Widmore being in league with smokey at some point, and now serving his own interests. Remember how proud young Widmore was at being the king of the island? Perhaps he gets pissed that his application for candidacy was crossed out? He might have plans to try and screw over both waring factions, and rule over everything!


    @206. Posted by: PiecesofArzt
    re: "I was hoping for a "Richard Alpert: The Island Years" showing his relation to each of the eras. (Even the one with the bomb named ???) Instead we got Richard accidentally killed some rich guy and was sold into slavery by a corrupt clergyman. Oh well."

    Repeating this because you articulated my thoughts exactly. They could have instead explored so many more aspects of his time on the island which would have made things much more enlightening. Point being - they could have easily shortened the origins story, leaving us with the same emotional/informational impact, but also so much more. Instead - they just dragged things out with fluff. Unless this is still meant for another episode, I look at it as a wasted opportunity.

    @210. Posted by: August Paul
    re: Why does MIB kill people?

    To get to the other side! ;)


    @236. Posted by: dk
    @248. Posted by: lostatwork
    re: New World

    Reading previous comments can be enlightening. Just sayin'.....


    @246. Posted by: Artz Vandelay
    re: Jacob is an a-hole

    Totally! It's all but a game to him, where the slaughter of inconsequential pieces is irrelevant so long as the true goal is in sight.


    @250. Posted by: Puck
    re: If you want to contain evil on a deserted island, Jacob, KEEP IT FREAKING DESERTED!

    This assumes Jacob simply wants to contain MIB. We've seen evidence that he seemingly wants to reform him, or teach him, or something like that....

    #251. Posted by: shikotee at March 25, 2010 12:24 PM

    @247, Isabella's Cross: You seem to be making the right arguments, but the wrong point.

    #252. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 25, 2010 12:42 PM

    #242 LostinVT: Thank you for the explanation! I had no idea who Sam and Ralph were.
    The criteria for a candidate has nothing to do with pasts being judged or not judged. Didn't Jacob say it doesn't matter? Indeed, it doesn't matter...each of the Lostees has the opportunity upon arrival to the island to re-invent themselves. Take all the mysticism out of it and we see that it is true of anyone who suddenly finds themselves in a totally new environment with strangers. The slate has been wiped clean. A prostitute can become the nurse. A thief can become the trusted confidante. The only thing preventing the change is the individual's perception of himself. That is (in my view) real re-birth. It doesn't require allegiance to a savior, it requires self examination and introspection and the ability to let one's past go. It takes faith in one's own fundamental worth as a human being. And that takes guts.


    #253. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 12:42 PM

    @ #80 LockeBox:

    But what about Juliet? She had quite the encounter with Smokey -- she stood her ground, faced him head on and then he scanned her. And left. Do you think Juliet was deemed "uncorruptible" to him? Seems unlikely with all the secretive, manipulative stuff she did for Ben. And all the meaness she put the Losties throguh before she joined them. Thoughts?

    #254. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 12:46 PM

    Richard was upset that Locke chose the knife, because he was suppose to choose the compass. I believe Locke gave Richard the compass in the 1950's...

    I think Miles can do more then what he lets on. He can definitely speak to dead people. Remember his backstory, he talked to a dead person to find money in that person's bedroom.

    I don't think the butterfly means anything.

    #255. Posted by: Skulley at March 25, 2010 1:03 PM

    Richard was upset that Locke chose the knife, because he was suppose to choose the compass. I believe Locke gave Richard the compass in the 1950's...

    I think Miles can do more then what he lets on. He can definitely speak to dead people. Remember his backstory, he talked to a dead person to find money in that person's bedroom.

    I don't think the butterfly means anything.

    #256. Posted by: Skulley at March 25, 2010 1:04 PM

    Richard was upset that Locke chose the knife, because he was suppose to choose the compass. I believe Locke gave Richard the compass in the 1950's...

    I think Miles can do more then what he lets on. He can definitely speak to dead people. Remember his back story, he talked to a dead person to find money in that person's bedroom.

    I don't think the butterfly means anything.

    #257. Posted by: Skulley at March 25, 2010 1:08 PM

    @183 undauntid:

    Sounds positive! Do keep your friends here posted...we'll keep our fingers crossed for ya. Hope it works out well. In this economy, just getting the interview is a huge plus! Glad it seemed to go so well.

    #258. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 1:23 PM

    Since the butterfly keeps popping up in posts, I'll just throw this in, though it probably doesn't have anything to do with the story.

    There was a special about Devil's Island on TV where they showed what looked like that exact butterfly. They said the prisoners used them for money, (catching them live and selling them to the guards) because the blue color was so beautiful and rare. Like I said, it probably doesn't have anything to do with the story, but the special was on about 10 minutes before Lost and it was just a coincidence I saw them both within an hour of each other.. [COINCIDENDE on LOST? I think not....]

    ;)

    #259. Posted by: sandivon at March 25, 2010 1:27 PM

    @ SKIPPER #219:

    "Why not regift him..."
    that was CLASSIC!

    ;)

    #260. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 1:38 PM

    Do we really know that Magnus Hanso is dead? We have only Jonas Whitfield's word for it while he was slaughtering the below deck slaves-to-be. That incident, by the way has been questioned as to why kill someone who could be useful. An answer to that could be the "sickness" that takes over some, but not all, of the people who arrive on the island. I have asked this before, is it necessary to be dunked in the temple pool to contract the sickness that turns people into murderers? Can they be cured like Ben may have been cured?

    HurleyIsHot@103 Rose and Bernard didn't FOOM. They remained on the island when the Oceanic Six left and ended up in 1977 with Sawyer, Juliet, et all. Because they were living for 3 years in their shack in the jungle, they may not have realized that they were whizzing around in time with Sawyer, Juliet, et al. The shack just moved with them. There was always a little inconsistency about what whizzed around in time with the 815 folks. By adding up the minutes the 815 folks spent in any one time zone before being whizzed, it may have totalled less than a day. I just don't recall.

    skikotee@118 I like your ruminations on Richard upon seeing the USA. With all the experiences gained watching the microcosm of humanity struggling on the island and his visits off island to Locke and Juliet, it is a little surprising he still comes across as the distraught naif at the end of this episode. It's as if none of those experiences touched him.

    Undauntid @ 253 I really, really like this. And what was the title of the first episode after the pilot? Tabula Rasa.

    #261. Posted by: August Paul at March 25, 2010 1:38 PM

    @210. Posted by: August Paul
    re: Why does MIB kill people?

    @251. Posted by: shikotee
    To get to the other side! ;)

    That's actually a nice, simple explanation for what could be happening on the island. In a Death Note vibe, Jacob and MIB could have the same job, as Gatekeepers to Hell of the Afterlife. The island is the gate. What do gatekeepers do? Allow people to pass through or hold them up for interrogation or inspection. That may be why both the lighthouse and the cave have the same list of names, which each striking out names who they have allowed to pass through the gate.

    Just as a cork keeps liquid in a bottle, a cork also acts as a stopper so more liquid cannot get into the bottle (for example, to make it overflow).

    #262. Posted by: welh at March 25, 2010 1:41 PM

    @224 DAVIDRH and #233 CECIL:

    Guilty as charged. Although for those of us of the female persuasion I would probably sub in Sawyer and Jack vs Kate and Juliet...

    #263. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 1:43 PM

    So...if the island is sitting atop a HELLMOUTH maybe it moves around in locale based on where the most protection needs to be placed. Kinda like plugging up the largest holes in a sandbag wall before you keep adding to the protection on the top?

    #264. Posted by: GatorGal at March 25, 2010 1:52 PM

    Wow 263 comments? I'll read them later and post anyway...just kidding! It is amazing how many comments popped up so quickly and almost all were really insightful/interesting. I have a lot to look for now upon rewatch.

    Hurley for island leader? That's one big cork! If anyone can stop up that bottle full of malevolence, it's Hugo.

    Is it possible Widmore brought the Black Rock log with him off island?

    #265. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 25, 2010 1:54 PM

    ANTB Anyone Notice The Butterfly

    Watched it again, the butterfly is outside and inside the Black Rock. Very obvious, and I would say digital for sure. Me thinks it must have some meaning.

    #266. Posted by: mtncbn at March 25, 2010 1:59 PM

    blue morpho butterflies: South American rain forests, abundant on devil's island. is that a hint as to the location of the island in 1861? or is it symbolic of the island being a prison as devil's island was a prison.

    #267. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 2:04 PM

    @267 undauntid

    I think either theory is possible. Digitally added...has to have meaning after all that trouble...

    #268. Posted by: Boodle at March 25, 2010 2:29 PM

    #262 welh:
    "In a Death Note vibe, Jacob and MIB could have the same job, as Gatekeepers to Hell of the Afterlife. The island is the gate. What do gatekeepers do? Allow people to pass through or hold them up for interrogation or inspection. That may be why both the lighthouse and the cave have the same list of names, which each striking out names who they have allowed to pass through the gate."

    I don't think its a gateway. I think it's a prison. MIB is the prisoner and Jacob is the guard. woe be to the world if that prisoner escapes.

    #269. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 2:29 PM

    re: #239. Posted by: glostover "Now now, Ben. Ilana DID say "he could be a candidate" in regard to Lapidus. It was while she, Bram & co. were bringing him out of the water. Why she said this when Jacob gave her a list, I know not."

    Perhaps for the same reason when you first meet someone, you don't know their name? Ilana may not have known whether or not Lapidus was a candidate because she didn't know WHO Lapidus was. I am sure that Jacob didn't provide a FaceBook profile pic with his list of candidate names ;)

    #270. Posted by: Keluha at March 25, 2010 2:33 PM

    #179. Posted by: lost2theworld
    Can I have a copy too? His train ofr thought is not always easy to follow.

    Regarding MIB/Smokey apparitions. I think he has to have the dead body on the island or something that belonged to them, Like Isabella's cross. She died in Tenerife but she gave her cross to Richard who brought it to he island. The reason Richard asked Ben if his mother died on the island or not, might be he was trying to determine if it was a true spirit of his mother - if she died off island - or the MIB - If she Died on the island.

    And thinking on this, Isabella appears to Richard in the ship, and gets smoked on her way out.Can a spirit get smoked?) Then Richard buried the cross and Isabella never appeared to him again becasue MIB could not "Use" the cross to appear as her. When Richard digs it up though, She appears again.

    We hear Hurley talking to her - before or after Richard digs up the cross? If before, then it might have been her spirit asking Hurley to help Richard. And we see her with Hurley and Richard after he digs it up. So I suggest that she appeared to Hurley as her own spirit and then as MIB's apparition. MIB would have asked her why she buried the cross - which he did.

    The question is whether MIB was watching at the same time as Hurley, Richard and Isabella were chatting - than he can't be her and be watching her. Or was he only watching and listening to Richard and Hurley and discovering that Hurley talks to spirits and maybe even Jacob.

    "USE YOUR FEET, MAN! USE YOUR FEET!!!!"
    #227. Posted by: davidrh
    ME TOO!

    #235. Posted by: welh
    Butterfly effect - A slight change in any of the recurring time loops will get a different outcome down the road. I still like the time loop theory.

    #247. Posted by: Isabella's Cross
    God doesn't talk to us directly but he sends prophets to give us his message (hundreds of prophets have been sent). Isn't that the same thing that Richard does for Jacob?

    I was just going to say that!

    All the speculation and disbelief about the landing of the Black Rock misses the most flaberghasting thing. How come the boxes of TNT didn't blow them sky high?


    #271. Posted by: berkyo at March 25, 2010 2:34 PM

    @177/wellh - As in, how did the ship's log get to the auction house if all the crew men were dead?

    @193/Mizzed
    The easiest explanation to the log is that a future ship arrives and/or crashes on to the island, finds the wreckage of the Black Rock, and some members of that second crew make it off island with the ship's log.

    I think Jacob could have provided the log to Alvar Hanso like the guitar case to Hurley or the pen to Sawyer. Hence, setting things in motion to bring the Dharma initiative to the island.

    One of the things that I'd like to see answered is why Smokey sounds so "mechanical". The steam whistle sound, followed by either gears or chains, and the electric snaps and flashes reminded me of the some of the constructs in Greek mythology (Hephaestus' automotons, Icarus' wings, etc.)

    Do you think that Smokey is a type of mechanical avatar being controlled by whatever is underneath the "cork"?

    #272. Posted by: DM Arch at March 25, 2010 2:44 PM

    @255 Skulley

    The butterfly must have symbolism. The camera actually follows it while inside the Black Rock. I doubt TPTB would trace its flight without some purpose. IMHO.

    #273. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 25, 2010 2:47 PM

    @davidrh, cecil & GatorGal

    Mud fights all around! I vote for DESMOND and Sawyer!

    Haven't we had this discussion before? I'm sure we have 'cause the images have invaded my dreams ;-)

    #274. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 25, 2010 2:51 PM

    @259 sandivon

    Interesting that you brought that up about Devil's Island. Papillon (a character in the movie of the same name) was a prisoner relegated there. The name Papillon means butterfly. The one thing that kind of blows the association of Papillon is that it was set in the 20th. century and Ricardus' time period was 1867.

    It does make one wonder though. Wierd huh?

    #275. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 25, 2010 3:07 PM

    @177. Posted by: welh
    @193. Posted by: Mizzed
    @251. Posted by: shikotee
    re: ship's log

    A long-service ship may have multiple logbooks throughout its service time, once one fills, they start a new one. The fact that the one sold at auction ended in the 1840's and Richards voyage was in the 1860's means the one from the auction never went to the Island. The one from Richards journey is probably still in the wreckage and decomposed beyond recognition by now.

    #276. Posted by: Russ at March 25, 2010 3:09 PM

    All the speculation and disbelief about the landing of the Black Rock misses the most flaberghasting thing. How come the boxes of TNT didn't blow them sky high?


    #271. Posted by: berkyo at March 25, 2010 2:34 PM


    I could be wrong, (It happened once before) but I think you have to have a fuse to blow dynamite. The reason Arst got..well...ARSTED, is because after all that time, the dynamite had become unstable, and the dynamite was sweating nitro. (Thank you Harold Lauder).

    #277. Posted by: sandivon at March 25, 2010 3:09 PM

    #270. Posted by: Keluha

    Yeah, after I posted that I remembered that Ilana probably didn't know Frank's name.

    BTW, I am tickled that after all they've been through Frank STILL has his little wings pinned on his shirt :-)

    #278. Posted by: glostover at March 25, 2010 3:12 PM

    Classic dynamite consists of three parts nitroglycerin, one part diatomaceous earth and a small admixture of sodium carbonate. This mixture is formed into short sticks and wrapped in paper. Nitroglycerin by itself is a very strong explosive, and in its pure form it is shock-sensitive (physical shock can cause it to explode), degrading over time to even more unstable forms. This makes it highly dangerous to transport or use in its pure form.

    DANG it!! Now, I've been wrong twice... sorry Berkyo. Didn't mean to override your point.

    #279. Posted by: sandivon at March 25, 2010 3:19 PM

    Regarding my previous post @275 and further research, Devil's Island was opened in 1852. So who knows.

    It has to be TPTB just tickling us into researching and seeing what theories we come up with. Well... it worked (at least in my case). It's all fun anyway...

    #280. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 25, 2010 3:25 PM

    @271 berkyo wondered:

    >All the speculation and disbelief about the landing of the Black Rock misses the most flaberghasting thing. How come the boxes of TNT didn't blow them sky high?

    Perhaps they were fresh then and not yet geown unstable from 'sweating' nitroglycerine in the hot humid jungle for 140 years?

    Of course one wounders how there could be dynamite on a ship in 1867 given that Alfred Nobel had only just patented (in the U.S.) dynamite in 1867.

    Perhaps his countryman Magnus Hanso got and early pre-production sample?

    More likely, the dynamite was brought to the island at some later date by someone else and placed in the Black Rock at that time.

    #281. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 25, 2010 3:37 PM

    re: dynamite

    A fuse won't do anything to dynamite. You have to have a blasting cap at the end of the fuse. A standard way of disposing of unused dynamite is to burn it. I have done this (sniff), it is very safe to burn, even old sweaty sticks.

    #282. Posted by: mtncbn at March 25, 2010 4:10 PM

    #254.GatorGal:
    It might be semantics, but I think Smokey isn't looking for uncorruptible, he's looking for people he can manipulate. The people he manipulates cannot think they they are being drawn to the dark side, they need to believe they are getting what is rightfully theirs. That's what made Locke so ripe for the picking...he did not want to be ordinary. Manipulate him by ostensibly acknowledging his extraordinary-ness and he is putty in your hands.

    Jacob and MIB game... I wonder if the two of them were alone for many years but became bored and decided to bring people to the island to test their positions. Jacob was winning; all that time and no one had yet assisted MIB with his escape. Was he trying to wear MIB down so that MIB would concede that he would never be able to leave the island and the two of them could go back to playing backgammon to while away the hours.

    #283. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 4:12 PM

    #274.lost2theworld

    Mud fights all around! I vote for DESMOND and Sawyer!

    I concur.Although I'd be content with just watching Sawyer shave.

    #284. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 4:15 PM

    @283/ undauntid

    Only MIB clearly said he was trapped on the island. If the cosmic prison is the final premise of the show, that does not explain why the main characters were brought to the island by Jacob. For recreation for MIB? You would think a guard would want to encourage less violence in his prisoner.

    #285. Posted by: welh at March 25, 2010 4:30 PM

    More likely, the dynamite was brought to the island at some later date by someone else and placed in the Black Rock at that time.

    #281. Posted by: Cecil Rose

    However Richard knew about the dynamite and told Jack he hadn't been back inside the Black Rock since he'd gotten there. Still could mean that it came later and he told his Others minions to store it on the ship, but the initial implication to me is that it was there when he arrived on the island.

    #286. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 25, 2010 4:42 PM

    After seing this episode, now it makes sense why Richard was so bothered being back in the ship last week.

    #287. Posted by: Rudy at March 25, 2010 4:44 PM

    @274 Lost2theworld

    I agree mudfight would be dandy. Or either one could read the phone book to me.... :)

    #288. Posted by: lostncyerspace at March 25, 2010 4:45 PM

    welh: Yes, I agree that only MIB is trapped. We know that Jacob wanted to retire and brought in candidates for his job, but it still might be that bringing those people in was a form of passing the time while trying to prove a point and find a replacement. And it might be the reason for those damned "rules".

    #289. Posted by: undauntid at March 25, 2010 4:46 PM

    @223 Gatorgal:

    LOVE is one possibility. How about HOPE?

    @251 Shikotee:

    Well, what I was trying to say is, Richard's first experience on the island involved someone giving him a knife, and look how it turned out. So when he see's someone select a knife as an "answer" he thinks back to that, and associates it to poor decision making or perhaps even implications of betrayal, to some extent. MIB = knife, Jacob = compass (lighthouse).

    #290. Posted by: The Duf at March 25, 2010 4:53 PM

    @273 dbwebdude

    the camera follows it around..

    Seems like an awful lot of work/money to spend on something unimportant however

    @280 has a point TPTB might be tricking us, leading us down the wrong path on purpose (gasp)

    #291. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 25, 2010 4:55 PM

    @291 "...TPTB might be tricking us..."

    Maybe, but I tend to believe tickling (as stated) in my comment (@280), but I know what you mean. I believe these guys have taken it so far and that it is a game for them. Why not? They have captured the interest of thousands with these blogs and have control over every plot, sub-plot, and even a snapshot of a scene that we try to dissect something/anything that we see. This is a total "Ben Linus" manipulation in progress. I think it's fun.

    Now back to their reasoning...

    I have read so many comments about how this, that or the other should be answered. I personally don't believe everything CAN be answered. There are teasers out there in so many ways and they want us (the viewing public) to try to see if we can figure it all out. I can see it now... a summer special... "LOST Answered".

    But I digress..

    What I really wanted to say is that it is really cooooool that they interject all these little symbolisms into the show. It makes us think. It makes us use brain power which results in research/investigation/theorizing etc. I am not a believer that everything has to be answered in the end. Each little bit of symbolism has its own property. The "butterfly" theme may just invite us to research the symbolism and thus come up with a theme they wish to present. If it means soul/rebirth/freedom so be it. It is done. What it does do is add to the complexity of the plot and intrigues us even more.

    Intrigue=Attention=Audience Participation.

    What a great marketing skill, especially if you are planning a new series.

    I really doubt (IMHO) that they are going to p*ss of thousands of fans by leaving us high and dry. It doesn't make sense. I do believe however there will be plenty of unanswered ??? but as a true fan, it is up to us to decipher certain points for ourselves.

    And isn't that one of the main themes of the show anyway?

    #292. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 25, 2010 5:42 PM

    My apologies if someone has already made this observation. Didnt have time to read all the posts.
    I noticed that in the scene where MIB comes to Richard in chains on the Black Rock, it reminded me a lot of Stephen King's The Stand. The part where the dark man comes to Lloyd when Lloyd is locked in prison and everyone is dead. The dark man releases Lloyd, and Lloyd says he will do anything the dark man asks.
    A lot of similarities there.

    #293. Posted by: thelostwaltz at March 25, 2010 6:01 PM

    == Future Quotes & Stage Direction ==

    Sawyer: (standing in bow of outrigger canoe) "One if by Ajira, two if by sea... I on the opposite team shall be."

    Frank: (staring out of the gaping hole in the cockpit window) "I pray, and vow - with MIB as my co-pilot - I can fly this thing."

    Sayid: (talking quietly to himself in front of the campfire) "No, no... no problem. Just find me the owners manual and I can drive this submarine all the way to Baghdad. We trained for just such a thing in the elite Republican Guard. Ten, ten... ten minutes to Wapner."

    Kate: "I've changed my mind James. Let's go back and help Jack." (collapses in a pool of blood from 'terminal' lead poisoning/hail of bullets).

    Hugo: "I've just had a chat with the ghost of Pablo Picasso and he says we should..." (everyone in earshot turns and walks quickly away)

    Zoe: (to giggling sub crew) "Stop calling me Liz Lemon!"

    #294. Posted by: Eye Digress at March 25, 2010 6:06 PM

    @292 dbwebdude

    Agreed, I may have come across saying *tricked* like it was a bad thing... i'm thinking more along the lines of movie *the sixth sense* where the character and story leads away from the obivious.... I love trying to figure it all out!

    @294 I just remembered that Jack said he'd taken a few lessons (on flying) and it wasn't for him... However I seriuosly doubt anyone is leaving my plane

    #295. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 25, 2010 6:51 PM

    @295 obviously I know the correct spellng....and OOPs that should read *by plane*

    #296. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 25, 2010 6:53 PM

    Best ShouldHaveBeenLines: (SHBL?)

    Jacob: Here... something for you to pass the time.
    MIB: You know I hate red wine... it gives me a headache.
    Jacob: Yeah, I know, but it's a really good vintage... 1865.

    Hugo: She kinda said one more thing. Something you have to do.
    Ricardo: What?
    Hugo: You have to stop the Man In Black. You have to stop him from selling the Apollo Candy Bar Co to Hershey's. Because if you don't, M&M's will go out of business. And I really love those Snicker bars, dude.

    #297. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 25, 2010 7:39 PM

    First time, long time. Haven't read all the posts b/c this is a popular place and there are so many fans, so excuse me if this is old stuff. Anyhoo, it seems that some assume the Black Rock incident is the first time outsiders were brought to the island. I believe the Jacob/MIB thing has gone on for a long, long time. Who knows how many poor souls have been brought to the island? I'm looking for a Gunslinger ending -- good, metaphysical stuff, but no complete resolution.

    #298. Posted by: suckittrebek at March 25, 2010 8:11 PM

    After rewatch of the last couple of episodes, it seems to me that Jacob and MIB have less of an adversarial relationship than originally thought. Maybe Jacob is more like a Dr than a prisoner...bringing people to the island to prove to MIB that we are capable of good, as a means of saving MIB from his own zombie darkness. He seems bent on proving his point in order to end the game, and MIB has grown tired of the process. Any takers?

    #299. Posted by: giggity at March 25, 2010 8:23 PM

    @ 292 dbwebdude...I do believe however there will be plenty of unanswered ??? but as a true fan, it is up to us to decipher certain points for ourselves.

    And isn't that one of the main themes of the show anyway?

    **********

    Yes, it is, and intellectually I say here, here! That's right! Great idea!

    Emotionally, if this happens, I may be sitting in front of the TV at the end of May saying, "Seriously? WTF?!"

    #300. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 25, 2010 10:04 PM

    @239. glostover: ARGH!

    Go back and rewatch The Incident (part 1).

    Bram: Why did we even bring this yahoo?
    Ilana: Because we might need him.
    Bram: For what? He didn't know the answer to the question.
    Ilana: That doesn't mean he's not important.
    Bram: What, you think he's a candidate?
    Ilana: He's awake.

    No one ever said that Frank was a candidate!!!!!!!!!

    As for all the knives, am I the only one expecting Padma Lakshmi to show up and say "Pack your knives and go!"

    #301. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 26, 2010 12:10 AM

    @247/Isabella's Cross: "But isn't that what God does to human kind? He brings us into this world against our will - we're just born, we don't have a say in it. Then he leaves us to fend for ourselves and hopes that we make good choices."

    I've come around to the thinking that Jacob is more jailer/protector than "God", but I like your line of thinking and it fits well within the storyline.

    @285/welh: "If the cosmic prison is the final premise of the show, that does not explain why the main characters were brought to the island by Jacob."

    Unless MIB represents something eternal, while the Jacob role is only temporary, requiring periodic replacements? That's more of an idea than a conviction, btw, but how else to explain the whole candidate business?

    @290/The Duf: "LOVE is one possibility. How about HOPE?"

    That's a great thought, especially if you buy the Pandora's box/jug analogy. When Pandora released the darkness into the world, she also released....hope.

    On a unrelated note, we know that an ancient civilization, presumably Egyptian, discovered the island and stayed long enough and with enough people to construct the statue, temple, etc.

    Apparently, Smokey left them alone while they did this- he was clearly there, as pictured on the temple walls.

    Did they pacify Smokey by worshiping him? Was he not aware/conscious that he was trapped at that time?

    We will probably never know what happened between the time of the Egyptians and the arrival of the Black Rock. But when the Black Rock arrived, Smokey was in all-kill mode, as he immediately wiped out the crew- no hesitation, no scanning.

    Jacob tells Richard he is the only man alive on the island and then makes him immortal. This makes him immune to being killed by Smokey, who may have wanted to keep Richard around anyway for his own future potential use.

    Does that mean that between the Black Rock and the US Army encounter in 1954, that there was a gradually growing community of Others, with Richard as the liason? That Richard watched them arrive on the island, live their lives there, have children, and eventually die?

    Until Jacob's death, the Others showed no fear or concern re: Smokey, freely walking through the underground passages of the temple.

    So for 140 years Smokey bided his time, searching for the appropriate "candidates" for his plan to kill Jacob? Periodically killing those who he did not find useful, but essentially laying low?

    When Richard describes the arrival of the US Army, he says he gave them an opportunity to withdraw in peace- he doesn't say "and then they landed with their bomb, and Smokey immediately tore them to shreds..."

    #302. Posted by: Mizzed at March 26, 2010 12:24 AM

    @276. Posted by: Russ

    re: multiple ship's logbooks

    Nice attention to details! We are such geeks!

    @290. Posted by: The Duf

    How about PIPE?
    My original choice was BONG, but there was no "e".
    It sure would explain all that smoke!!! ;)


    @302. Posted by: Mizzed

    Correct me if I am wrong, but we have not seen smokey kill anyone from the Others? Up until the slaughter-fest at the temple, which takes place after Jacob is dead. I'm guessing that they were off limits? Dharma folk and anyone else, not included?

    #303. Posted by: shikotee at March 26, 2010 1:27 AM

    My apologies if someone has already made this observation. Didnt have time to read all the posts. #293. Posted by: thelostwaltz

    Haven't read all the posts b/c this is a popular place and there are so many fans, so excuse me if this is old stuff. #298. Posted by: suckittrebek

    AAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    (If you're an regular here, you KNOW why I'm screaming . . . )

    #304. Posted by: davidrh at March 26, 2010 6:34 AM

    @283 undauntid:

    Yep. Agree. That makes sense. Especially the way you put it. So, since Mantaud, Eko and all the folks at the temple couldn't be manipulated, they were killed. Smokey must have "scanned" something in Juliet though that made him think she had potential for manipulation since she faced him down, he scanned her, then retreated. But, since she is dead at the bottom of the swan station...I suppose it doesn't matter much now. Maybe ol' Smokey was feeling extra benevolent that day! ;0

    #305. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 8:45 AM

    First posting this week. Took me a while to, ahem, read all the posts before posting my observations, questions and wacky thoughts.

    It's cool that Hurley has become the go-to ghost whisperer. He's come a long way from being in charge of the Dharma food pantry.

    The island being underwater in the alt timeline could mean evil has been destroyed or Smokey has been drowned (cuz he's allergic to water). But if instead it means the metaphoric cork is gone and evil has been released, then the alt timeline could be the evil timeline (misdirection by the writers making us think all is right in the alt world).

    The blue butterfly seemed kinda Disneyesque if you ask me (and thanks to welh at 235 for that great post about the symbolish of butterflies among various cultures). I also thought I heard the sounds of birds chirping several times, and I've been wondering for a while if Jacob has the ability to transform into a bird (have been wondering for some time if he was the Hurley Bird....wacky theory alert ahead). Sooooo, what if Jacob is a Phoenix (symbol if immortality, rebirth and all that)? There's also an Egyptian version of the Phoenix called the Benu or Bennu. Not sure how it would tie in, but maybe if MIB wins the "game," Jacob/Phoenix could rise anew and somehow start the whole thing over again.

    OK, back to more solid ground, why does Jacob choose to live in the foot of the statue as opposed to somewhere else? Have a feeling this goes back to his Egyptian roots.

    #306. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 26, 2010 8:50 AM

    Here is a LINK to a recent interview with Nestor Carbonell (actor who plays Richard). Sounds like there is "heartbreak" coming...gulp.

    http://bit.ly/cWKrTB

    #307. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 9:08 AM

    ***** LONG POST ALERT *****

    @ 302 mizzed posted "Unless MIB represents something eternal, while the Jacob role is only temporary, requiring periodic replacements? "

    That got me to thinking...

    If the island is all about redemption and penance and forgiveness and second chances and hope, and I think we can all pretty much at this point agree that that’s where the show is headed…what if...now hang with me for a second here...what if the candidates are not intended to replace Jacob, but MIB?

    Here's where I go a bit off the rails.

    MIB = Man in Black…yes, but I’m thinking something along the lines of the movie Men in Black with Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith. TLJ wasn’t training a partner, he was training a replacement.

    Jacob and MIB are not so much protagonist and antagonist as they are teacher and pupil. This theory was brought up previously, can’t take credit for it.

    So Jacob is trying to teach MIB that not everyone is bad and corruptible, but MIB is an obstinate student, and they go through candidates like Kleenex. Finally, with the last candidate, MIB gets it. Humanity is flawed, yes, but there is hope, mankind has potential. MIB finally turns away from the Dark Side. Jacob’s job is done, he can “move on” to wherever/whatever that may be. And he takes his consigliere, Richard, with him.

    Before Jacob ascends, he appoints MIB as his replacement to become Protector of the Island because, while MIB has re-discovered his faith in humanity, his penance is not quite completed until he can pass on what he’s learned. So now MIB needs a replacement to maintain balance, an angry, cynical, flawed and tortured soul who’s lost faith in himself and humanity. And it is now MIB’s job to teach/fix/cure/absolve this wayward soul before he himself can move onward and upward.

    I know I know…I got a lot of time on my hands because it’s still too cold to golf here.

    ***** END OF LONG POST ALERT *****

    #308. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 26, 2010 9:14 AM

    Interesting theory, ransomjackson. I was about to post that, though unlikely, is it possible that MIB (and not Jacob) was the one who gave Richard eternal life when he first touched him? Not sure how that fits in with your theory but it doesn't seem to conflict with it.

    #309. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 26, 2010 9:29 AM

    When I heard the name Whitfield, the first thing I thought was that it sounds a bit like Widmore. Any chance Widmore is a granson or great-grandson of Whitfield? Like Widmore, Mr. Whitfield sure had a taste for killing anyone who got in his way.

    Interesting that Richard was putting a ship in a bottle in that prior episode. Maybe he was following Jacob's metaphor and it was his way of symbolically locking up the evil slave ship.

    Aside from being the longest or second-longest flashback we've seen, something small bothered me about Richard in this episode. When he first spoke English, he spoke with an accent, but now it sounds like he speaks English as if it were his first language. Don't most people speaking their second language retain some sort of accent, however mild, even after many, many years?

    Talk about Douchey McDouchealot, what about that priest telling Richard the devil waits for him in hell and then sells him as a slave. Nice. I'm guessing that when MIB scanned Richard, he saw that scene and used Richard's fear of hell to recruit him and try to kill Jacob.

    #310. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 26, 2010 9:31 AM

    @ 310. Posted by: Scooby-Dude

    I thought the exact same thing about Whitfield and a possible connection to Widmore. It's way too close to just be some sort of coincidence.

    Also, we're all under the impression that we are searching for Jacob's replacement. Does anyone think Richard may need a replacement as well? It seems like Hurley is more like a new Richard than he is a new Jacob.

    #311. Posted by: Cheese at March 26, 2010 9:44 AM

    @284 undauntid
    @274 lost2theworld
    @288 lostncyerspace

    ABC has created and posted individual LOST character video montages. Sawyer's is up! And set to the tune "Cowboy Cassanova." So...treat yourselves and check it out!

    Ben's is up too...set to the tune "Ben" by Michael Jackson. Both provide intersting insight into the characters...who there are, what they stand for, perhaps their "role" in the show.


    -----MILD SPOILER ----------------------


    Also, ABC has posted 2 sneak peeks for next week's episode. The first is titled "When Will You be Back?" and features a conversation b/n Flocke and Sayid (made me think of Dementors from Harry Potter). I think Sayid is not long for this world..or any other perhaps.

    The second is titled, "What is the Money for?" and is a conversation b/n Sun and Jin in the airport in the Sideways world...

    #312. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 9:46 AM

    ransomjackson: "Jacob and MIB are not so much protagonist and antagonist as they are teacher and pupil."

    I don't think so. We were told the only thing keeping the Temple people safe was Jacob being alive. The minute Jacob is dead, Smokey moves in and slaughters all the people at the temple. That is hardly indicative of MIB finally being ready to graduate to the next level. Not to mention the fact that MIB has every intention of leaving the island.

    I think MIB is malevolence.If he was a human being he'd be a sociopath. You can't rehabilitate a sociopath. One of the things about a sociopath is that they attempt to mimic normal responses to emotional situations, but they lack the emotion behind the response so it always comes out oddly inappropriate. We've seen that with MIB.

    Someone with a better memory might be able to be more specific, but I remember when Rousseau's team arrived on the island and one of them was pulled underground and called out for help...that cry for help was chillingly hollow; that was MIB using his victim's voice. And Flocke's response to Claire attempting to murder Kate, also a disconnected response to an emotionally charged event.

    MIB tries to appear empathetic, but because he doesn't understand the emotional content, all he can do is fake the words and actions. Was it Susan Smith who murdered her two young sons? She was in a news conference beseeching the public for help to find her boys, she said the words, she made the face of anguish, her body shook with barely controlled sobs, and not a tear in her eye.

    #313. Posted by: undauntid at March 26, 2010 10:18 AM

    307 GatorGal:

    Thank you so much for that link. It gives me a good feeling about the finale.

    If you haven't already, treat yourself to Jorge Garcia's latest GeronimoJacksBeard podcast. Hearing Nestor talk about preparing for "Ab Aeterno" is an education in the acting craft that went into his performance.

    #314. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 26, 2010 10:22 AM

    Way back in the Otherville school room when they were talking about volcanos, did they say there's a volcano on the island? If so that HAS to come up at some point...maybe leading to the island sinking? Some major eruption coinciding with the climactic battle in the finale?

    #315. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 26, 2010 10:31 AM


    @315 Crispy Seaplanes asked:

    >Way back in the Otherville school room when they were talking about volcanos, did they say there's a volcano on the island? If so that HAS to come up at some point...maybe leading to the island sinking? Some major eruption coinciding with the climactic battle in the finale?

    They absolutely did and HP-Ben's teacher, (who was Horace Goodspeed's wife at the time, although later replaced by Amy without explanation) even made and used a baking soda/papier mache' model of the volcano and said its ersatz eruption was "just like the volcano on *our* island". I said at the time that Chekov's rule of drama meant that volcano absolutely must eventually erupt.

    ---

    ["If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." From S. Shchukin, Memoirs (1911) ] - one of a number of similar quotes from Chekov, who was apparently in the habit of making this point repeatedly.

    #316. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 11:03 AM

    #304. Posted by: davidrh

    AAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    I get it!! it's an anagram for

    AAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    I just rearainged the a's u's g's and h's within themselves.

    #317. Posted by: mtncbn at March 26, 2010 11:07 AM

    @306 Scooby-Dude...Jacob as the Hurley Bird! Nice. That would be a cool way to solve that little mystery for obsessive fans!

    @308 ransomjackson...Jacob/MIB = teacher/student Interesting take on things, I like it. Redemption for the MIB, I would say he could use it after all of his Smokey assassinations! After all, Richard's penance for one murder was over 100 years!

    Long post alert! But I think there's some good stuff.

    Here are my thoughts after re-watching:

    **Richard's rant about hell at the beginning sure seems like a shout out to all of the purgatory theorists in the fan base. If THAT turns out to be the case, I'm not sure how I'll feel.

    **Although I think the preist was totally working for Magnus Hanso, I think his speech was important. Penance is most definitely a huge part of the overall theme of the show, along with choosing a different path. And finally, that there is little to no black and white in the world, just lots and lots of grey.

    **Richard threatening a huge pig with a little nail = HILARIOUS!!

    **the MIB must have an advanced degree in psychology, because he can manipulate the H-E-double-hockey-sticks out of people!

    **this whole "if he speaks it will be too late" concept is interesting. Both *sides* have used it. It could be looked at in many different ways. It is a test of...

    loyalty - do you follow my instructions

    OR

    leadership - will you make your own decisions

    mercy - will you allow someone the chance to prove themselves before killing them

    OR

    evil"ness" - will you blindly kill someone to get what you want

    **interesting that MIB tells Richard too, that he is Smokey. Also states that Jacob took his body and his humanity. What does that mean? Whose "body" is he using then?

    ** MIB to Richard, "We can talk all day long about what's right and wrong but the question before you remains the same. Do you ever want to see your wife again?"

    Translation: Are you willing to do what you know is wrong to get what you want? Are you corruptible? Hmmm...

    **We've talked about the MIB/Flocke "touching" people to transfer his "darkness." The MIB touched Richard before he went off to try to kill Jacob and he didn't turn evil. Either this is not how people turn evil or it has more to do with choice. Richard chose to be good, given the chance. If that is the case, Sayid and Claire still have a choice to make.

    **Maybe Jacob brings people to the island that are already corrupted, that already have that evil sloshing around inside them and and uses the island to keep that evil from spreading. He then waits to see if they will find the goodness within themselves. They have to do this while continually being tempted by evil/the MIB.

    **Richard buries Isabella's necklace because he's choosing to go with Jacob. He knows by doing this he'll never see her again. He's letting go. He goes back to dig it up when he decides to return to the MIB because he thinks he's gonnna see her again.

    **I said it in a much earlier post but I'll say it again. I really believe that Hurley has taken over Richard's role. Isabella's message to Richard about stopping the MIB from leaving the island was really Jacob's order to Richard through Hurley.

    One more idea and I'll end this ridiculously long post...

    **Not sure if it's valid but I like the idea of Jacob and the MIB being two halves of one whole. They are the physical manifestation of the good vs. evil battle inside each of us. (a la Animal House with the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other ;-))
    We never hear MIB's name because he represents the evil that Jacob drove out of himself. This is why the MIB says that Jacob "stole" his body and his humanity.

    Am I on to something?


    #318. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 26, 2010 11:11 AM

    I posted my ridiculously long post when there were only 308 posts. Interesting that Cheese in #311 supports my Hurley as the new Richard theory! And undauntid's discussion of MIB as pure evil fits with my thought that MIB is the "evil" driven out of Jacob. Left to his own devices he is "pure Evil." Uh-Oh!

    #319. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 26, 2010 11:23 AM

    Why or when did we assume the candidate was for Jacob? I've been wondering about this but thought it was just a scene I've forgotten about. Was there any indication anywhere that Jacob also wanted to leave the island? I've been confused about all this since Jacob deliberately walked up to Ben to be stabbed. There must be more to this. He went so willingly. I don't feel like the MIB accomplished his goal of finding a loophole. I think Jacob is still very much in control of the situation and it will end with him winning. I'm just disturbed that so many had to be sacrificed for the better good. I know that's life but like TV to be an escape from reality.

    Regarding Jacob living in a shoe, I think he liked having a beach house.

    #320. Posted by: pebspostal at March 26, 2010 11:36 AM

    Sounds like there is "heartbreak" coming...gulp. #307. Posted by: GatorGal

    Yes, I followed some of the links out of that article and there appears a chance that we are losing more of our losties than we really wanted to. I’m still concerned about that screen shot of Sun lying out in the grass looking very “dead-ish” in the previews last Tuesday.

    We shall see what we shall see.

    *****

    I just rearranged the a's u's g's and h's within themselves.
    #317.Posted by: mtncbn

    Some of you people are just TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! I just can't get ahead of you. grrrrr.*

    *NOT an anagram.

    #321. Posted by: davidrh at March 26, 2010 12:00 PM

    Had an interesting thought this morning. The rule about "don't let him speak" or you won't be able to kill him; I think this directly ties into the show's premise of the influence of good vs. evil. Since many times in the show we've seen scales representing the balance and the white and black stones used to show one side of light and the other dark.

    At the point of both instances where the "don't let him speak" rule has been iterated, the person been given the instructions has only been influenced by one side (Sayid by the Others; Richard by MIB). The scale of the light vs. dark influence was tipped greatly to one side at a point of a soul's true path (Sayid and Richard wanting absolution for their past sins).

    Sayid had the Others speaking to him and was attempting to tip the scales of his soul to the light. If Flocke was able to influence him (speak) then the balance could be tipped back toward the dark side. Probably bringing him to a neutral point to where he wasn't fully clear in his intentions and be unable to kill Flocke.

    In Richard's case it was the opposite, the MIB had convinced Richard that Jacob was the devil and if he let him speak, the balance of influence would also be tipped back toward the light and the same rules apply. If the person is not fully convinced of his actions being the right choice, then any influence can knock his/her soul back to the balance.

    I have no idea if I'm even close to the mark but I thought I'd throw it out there and see what the community thought.

    #322. Posted by: DM Arch at March 26, 2010 12:04 PM

    Does Claire know that Jack is her 1/2 brother?

    #323. Posted by: Skulley at March 26, 2010 12:14 PM

    DM Arch/322
    I was thinking something along those lines as well. Whereas Ben was given a choice and clearly had intent to kill Jacob (although he didn't use the magic dagger), it occurred to me that once Sayid saw Flocke, his stabbing of him was somewhat of the reflexive action of a trained killer rather than a full-on desire to kill. On the other hand, I thought his killing of alt timeline Keamy was much more intentional and a sign that he did have evil in his heart in the alt timeline. How was his killing of Keamy any different than Whitfield's killing of the shipwrecked slaves?

    #324. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 26, 2010 12:18 PM

    I think the consensus is that the final battle will be good vs. evil. But what is the the actual battlefield for this conflict?

    Author Joyce Meyer said the mind is the battlefield for good and evil.

    #325. Posted by: welh at March 26, 2010 12:35 PM

    @321 davidrh growled:

    >>I just rearranged the a's u's g's and h's within themselves.
    #317.Posted by: mtncbn

    >Some of you people are just TOO SMART FOR YOUR OWN GOOD! I just can't get ahead of you. grrrrr.

    OK, it you're all so smart...

    Name two US states that, if you take all the letters of both names, can be rearranged to form the name of two *different* US states.

    #326. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 12:38 PM

    The difference between Sayid killing Keamy and Whitfield's killing of the chained slaves is this: Whitfield felt there was an implied threat that the freed slaves would kill him. Whereas Keamy had just threatened harm to Sayid's niece and nephew. So Whitfield murdered to protect his own woefully sorry ass and Sayid killed to protect the lives of two innocent children.

    The problem murders for Sayid were the retribution killings of the people on Ben's list. Although if I remember correctly, Sayid thought he was doing that to protect the remaining Lostees...but I may be wrong about that.

    #327. Posted by: undauntid at March 26, 2010 12:40 PM

    @323 Skulley asked:

    >Does Claire know that Jack is her 1/2 brother?

    It's a least potentially possible. Dogen told Jack that his sister had been infected, so the Temple-Other high command is (was) aware of the relationship. We have no evidence one way or the other. Whether they ever told her. Likely not, is my guess.

    Some Temple-Others are currently travelling with FLocke and company, and could potentially have told her along the way.

    Kate knows (I think - given Jack's 'you're not even related to him' remark to her during their engagement, he would seem to have told her, and he knows because Claire's mom told him.) and could also have told her, but again, no evidence either way.

    #328. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 26, 2010 12:44 PM

    #326.Cecil: I am SO not good at this sort of thing! But I eagerly await the solution by someone else.

    #329. Posted by: undauntid at March 26, 2010 12:48 PM

    The new Lost Podcast is out. In it Damon and Carlton talk about Ab Aeterno and also next week's Ep "The Package." Kinda. They answer fan questions and some are maybe a little spoilery. Depends, I guess, on how much you want to know in advance.

    They do clarify that YES, the ship that jacob and MIB saw on the beach 9at breakfast) WAS the Black Rock. Just early in the a.m. before the evening storm that brought it crashing ashore.

    Next week's episode is character-centric and all about Sun/Jin. Check out the podcast (I lsitened at popwatch.ew.com but it is also on ABC.com) if you want to hear some intel on Desmond and Libby!

    #330. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 1:03 PM

    Does Claire know that Jack is her 1/2 brother?
    #323. Posted by: Skulley


    No, but she did stay at a Holiday Inn once with Cecil playing stupid word games til her hair-doo exploded . . .

    (I have no idea why I even wrote this. It just seem silly at the moment.)

    #331. Posted by: davidrh at March 26, 2010 1:26 PM

    #316. Cecil: Chekov's Rule of Drama:

    In which case there aren't many episodes left in which to have a volcano explode, find out why Waaaaaaaaaalt is so special (aside from his phenomenal growth rate), why Aaron needed to be raised by Claire & what the consequences of that not happening are going to be, why women who become pregnant on the island die, who Jacob & MIB really are, who's been using Christian's body, how the de Groots found the island in the first place to use it for the DHARMA initiative, if Adam & Eve are really Rose & Bernard, where Vincent is... Oops, sorry, complaining once again. ; )

    #332. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 26, 2010 1:34 PM

    Moraleja: nunca dejes que Jacob te manosee...

    #333. Posted by: Lily at March 26, 2010 1:35 PM

    I couldn't find a screenshot of the bible, but re-watching the episode, I saw that it was from Luke 4. Reading that chapter of the bible, there was a significant passage that I found, copied here:

    Luke 4: 6-7
    "And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all sall be thine."

    Significance:
    MIB askes Richard to pledge his allegiance to him, and then he could have his wife back (his wife was all that he wanted). MIB states that the offer will always be on the table, and I think that he did this because Richard's allegiance swings the balance of power towards whomever Richard follows.

    Just my thoughts.

    #334. Posted by: ANTP? at March 26, 2010 1:43 PM

    Name two states that, if you take all the letters of both names, can be rearranged to form the name of two *different* states.
    Posted by: Cecil


    Ok, I’m giving it a shot. I’ll use the state of “confusion” and the state of “despair” and the answer is:

    CROINAP and FSUSEINO

    O wait . . .you meant like REAL states . . like Kansas and Wyoming, didn’t you?
    OK then. I give up.


    I'm getting off the computer now. I've overstayed my welcome.

    #335. Posted by: davidrh at March 26, 2010 1:45 PM

    I can take all of the letters from "North Carolina" and "South Dakota" and rearrange them to "South Carolina and North Dakota"

    #336. Posted by: Cheese at March 26, 2010 2:03 PM

    @332 Alaïs_Longthought commented:

    >316. Cecil: Chekov's Rule of Drama:

    In which case there aren't many episodes left in which to

    1 have a volcano explode,
    2 find out why Waaaaaaaaaalt is so special (aside from his phenomenal growth rate),
    3 why Aaron needed to be raised by Claire and what the consequences of that not happening are going to be,
    4 why women who become pregnant on the island die,
    5 who Jacob & MIB really are,
    6 who's been using Christian's body,
    7 how the de Groots found the island in the first place to use it for the DHARMA initiative,
    8 if Adam & Eve are really Rose & Bernard,
    9 where Vincent is...

    >Oops, sorry, complaining once again. ; )

    I'm betting that 4, 5, 6, 8, and maybe 9 will be answered in the next few eps.

    As to 3, perhaps the admonition was not so much for Aaron's sake as for Claire's. SHE must do the raising or the consequences would be severe for HER. And we've already SEEN the severe consequences as she didn't raise Aaron.

    #337. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 2:07 PM

    @336:

    The Cheese stands alone!

    #338. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 2:09 PM

    I can't get the podcast to work. Anyone else having trouble? I have been able to listen to them all up to now.

    #339. Posted by: berkyo at March 26, 2010 2:16 PM

    ABC Podcast:

    Works for me.

    You do realize it's an AUDIO posdcast, right?

    #340. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 2:20 PM

    ABC Podcast:

    Works for me.

    You do realize it's an audio podcast, right?

    And they're doing it differently this year so that you have to use their player, can't download to Windows Media Player. (although, with the appropriate skillz...)

    #341. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 26, 2010 2:23 PM

    @ #49 LMFAO! I am just now reading through all the posts...I can't believe I waited this long! I was thinking the same thing..."dudes, first of all, it's a show, second, it's a show with a smoke f'n monster!!!!! LMAO!!!!

    Seriously though, you guys are awesome and I'll truly miss this site once Lost is over :(

    #342. Posted by: Critter at March 26, 2010 2:32 PM

    @ #49 LMFAO! I am just now reading through all the posts...I can't believe I waited this long! I was thinking the same thing..."dudes, first of all, it's a show, second, it's a show with a f&*king smoke monster!!!!! LMAO!!!!

    Seriously though, you guys are awesome and I'll truly miss this site once Lost is over :(

    #343. Posted by: Critter at March 26, 2010 2:32 PM

    #337. Cecil: Questions answered:

    Re Claire & Aaron, true...she's certainly not in a good place right now. At this point even if Claire gets off the island I would think Aaron would be better off w/Carol.

    Re getting answers: I suppose I should clarify; not only would I like to get answers to the large plot points that we've been hit over the head w/over the years, I'd like them to make logical sense. I realize those posters who think that "it's a f*cking smoke monster" (& gee, sure wish I had that sort of command of the English language!) are going to disregard this entirely, but one tenet of good storytelling is that if the creator of a story wishes to introduce fantastical elements, the rest of the story needs to make sense for the readers/viewers to accept said fantastical elements & remain immersed in the story. W/o that, it's far too easy to say the entire thing is ridiculous & not buy any of it.

    welh has pointed out how the entire storyline of Kate in the courtroom made no logical sense whatsoever. In the case of this episode, the historical storyline was deeply flawed as well. For example:

    *Great Britain didn't ship slaves to Australia & New Zealand; they shipped convicts, & only to Australia. And they didn't stop in various countries taking on convicts of other nationalities.

    *If Richard were being shipped out as a convict or slave, it wouldn't have mattered whether he spoke English or not. After all, the slave traders in Africa didn't bother asking the people they captured if they spoke English.

    *A slaver would have been stuffed full of slaves, not have just a few of them in the hold.

    I'm willing to explain away the first point by saying that the Black Rock was no longer an official ship sailing for England; at some point before 1867 she had been sold & was now running illegal operations. This could explain why the "last logbook" of the Black Rock was dated 1845, not 1867.

    Finding out if Richard spoke English would have made sense if Whitfield, or Hanso, or whoever put up the money to buy Richard, wanted him for a body servant. But if that was the case, Richard would not have chained in the hold.

    However, I'm at a complete loss as to how to logically explain that the hold wasn't crammed full if the Black Rock really was a slaver. And if it wasn't a slaver & was up to some other nefarious purpose, then there are still some questions to be answered about it. And we're running out of time to have all these questions answered.

    In the past TPTB have used far more complicated ideas, such as all the physics that we dissected a couple of seasons ago, as part of the show. These historical facts behind this episode are nowhere near as complicated or esoteric; it should have been easy to construct a storyline that made logical sense.

    All that said, I agree w/the poster who said that rather than spending all the time on Richard & Isabella, it would have been more illuminating to see Richard on the island over the years. And like ransomjackson, I felt the need to wash my retinas after the Ghost homage at the end. There have been some incredibly moving emotional moments (e.g., Juliet's death) & superb acting (e.g., Michael Emerson) over the last five & a half years, but I wouldn't include this in them. JMHO, though! : )

    #344. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 26, 2010 3:03 PM

    344 Alaïs_Longthought:

    I too have the same misgivings and lean upon the slender reeds of TPTB's early assurances that there was no supernatural involvment, and Arther C. Clarke's third law:

    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    #345. Posted by: Cecil at March 26, 2010 3:11 PM

    @339 BERKYO:

    Try this "backdoor" approach:

    go to www.ew.com
    click on the LOST link at the top (in the vertical bar)
    under "More LOST coverage" section click on "Darlton Dish"
    the podcast is at the bottom. Just click and listen.

    Hope this helps!

    #346. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 3:15 PM

    @ BERKYO:

    I meant the HORIZONTAL bar (not vertical). This headcold is making my brain go all fuzzy....

    #347. Posted by: GatorGal at March 26, 2010 3:17 PM

    #345. Cecil:

    I hope those slender reeds stand up!

    #320. pebspostal: Jacob's beach house:

    I hope his homeowner's insurance included flood damage. ; )

    In light of all of the discussion about free will, choice, etc., I thought that this quote was apropos:

    “It is our choices, Harry, that show us what we truly are, far more than our abilities.”
    —Albus Dumbledore, J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter

    So just out of curiosity, what one question would you like to have answered before the end arrives? And if you were one of the creators of the show, what would you do differently (dare I say WWYDD) if you were coming up w/a LOST-like show?

    #348. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 26, 2010 4:02 PM

    I like the idea of Jacob and the MIB being two halves of one whole. We never hear MIB's name because he represents the evil that Jacob drove out of himself. This is why the MIB says that Jacob "stole" his body and his humanity. Jacob got the body, which is why he could die. The MIB is just the evil part of Jacob's soul, hence the black smoke and need for a "host" once Jacob died.

    Am I on to something? Any one? Opinions?

    #349. Posted by: losttotheworld at March 26, 2010 4:06 PM

    @ 348 Alaïs_Longthought asked "if you were one of the creators of the show, what would you do differently (dare I say WWYDD) if you were coming up w/a LOST-like show?"

    I would call it FOUND, and only give the viewers answers to unknown questions.

    #350. Posted by: welh at March 26, 2010 4:13 PM

    Random thoughts:
    Maybe Jacob is tired of the whole island thing and wants to trade in for a timeshare chalet in the Alps.

    Did something happen AFTER Richard arrived that caused Jacob and MiB to establish rules for how to treat island visitors? I think there must have been something, otherwise how else can the establishment of New Otherton, Dharma, the blooming population of the Templetons, the declining population of the Losties and the Ajirans be explained. MiB pretty emphatically and efficiently wiped out everyone on the Black Rock (except Richard), as well as the Templetons when he had the chance. Similarly, he took Montand right away, and drove Rousseau nuts enough to kill off the rest of her "infected" crew. Or was that MiB's attempt to try a different strategy vs. Jacob.

    Given all the references, allusions, etc. to Stephen King, the two principal ones that come to mind are: the Dark Tower epic (the Gunslinger's -- mankind's -- journey through life....bringing the "candidates" to the island is very much like The Drawing of the Three) or like The Stand (epic conflict between Good and Evil).

    I can see how TPTB can have the show end the way either book does. King has employed unconventional methods to ending some of his works before. He's introduced characters at the beginning of a novel with a reader perception of that character being a "hero" or a "principal" only to kill them off just to set tone. Similarly, he has not been afraid to challenge conventions as he did with the ending of Cujo (the book, not the film). He is willing to have children die off in his stories and not have a "happy" ending.

    However, I hope this story (LOST) does NOT end like either The Stand or The Dark Tower. The end of the former (pardon me, but it is difficult to articulate it without divulging anything) I found to be ... reasonable and satisfactory in its way. The latter, not so much. The conclusion of The Dark Tower was a reasonable (reasonable in that I really couldn't see any other way for it to conclude) but unsatisfying ending. However, I can't really lambaste him for it because he even had said that about it himself.

    Maybe they'll go for a route more like how the ending of the movie The Mist differed from how the short story ended.

    #351. Posted by: Gumbo at March 26, 2010 4:14 PM

    @306 Jacob being a Phoenix bird.. it would tie in well with him dying.. in the fire.

    @310 Richard not having an accent, it did bug me too, however I was reminded of one of the vampire stories.. Lestat series maybe where he continued to learn things because he was so bored, stands to reason that he could have *lost* the accent.

    @312 Thanks for the link

    @318 Jacob and MIB being a devil/angel on a shoulder....gave me goosebumps for some reason...WHO's shoulder???

    #352. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 26, 2010 4:19 PM

    @350 welh: very very funny

    #353. Posted by: August Paul at March 26, 2010 4:57 PM

    @361 Gumbo That's why I asked the question, "Why does MIB kill people?" He seems to be able to wipe out people randomly, either singly or in bunches. The only answer is that he doesn't kill people who may be allies. Why does he need allies? To help him get off the island? How many allies does it take to get a snake like plume of smoke shooting lightning within off the island? Why would he need an army to fight, for example, the Widmore clan, to get to their submarine? Why couldn't he just wipe them out like he did the people in the temple? Does MIB need to get his body back? If so, from where? Or is he using his allies as a garden of potentially useful bodies to have when he does get off the island. I suppose a snake like plume of smoke shooting lightning within would not have a very satisfying existence in LA.

    So who he kills and who he doesn't must somehow relate to getting his body back and what the rules are. And who is that kid he keeps seeing reminding him of the rules? Eight episodes?

    #354. Posted by: August Paul at March 26, 2010 5:08 PM

    minor irritation:
    with all this CGI in recent episodes,(the sub,the statue,the ship...)
    are we to expect "LOST THE ANIMATED SERIES" next year,
    it could be made at reasonable cost using puppets (supermarionation),
    no need for expensive locations, tracy island would do nicely,
    ben linus on strings,
    i'd watch that.

    #355. Posted by: san at March 26, 2010 5:34 PM

    @354 - "Why does MIB kill people?" He seems to be able to wipe out people randomly, either singly or in bunches."
    =======================
    howz about - it can kill anyone that it wantz - except those (candidatez) touched by jacob - it can convince itz surogatez to kill candidatez for it - thatz why the smoke thing lookz at peoplez facez - to see if they are touched

    #356. Posted by: Joey Pantz at March 26, 2010 5:50 PM

    I'm pretty sure this hasn't been said. It's probably because it's so effing absurd, but what if MIB's body is behind the locked door of the sub!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!

    #357. Posted by: Cheese at March 26, 2010 6:03 PM

    #354 August Paul: I believe the MIB can't kill everybody because he needs someone to "open" the door for him to leave the island. That's standard operating procedure for various "devil" (and vampire) myths. In the case of MIB's situation, it might be that more than one person is needed to get to the door so that the one person can open it for him. In which case, once the door is opened I'd expect to see Smokey annihilate everyone who assisted him.

    Alaïs_Longthought: 1st I want an explanation about why that staged plane wreck was planted in the wrong freaking ocean and why no one seemed surprised by it being in the wrong freaking ocean....drives me absolutely crazy! #2. How were the candidates chosen?
    #3. What makes Desmond unique among the past & present residents of the island?

    Good answers to those questions would satisfy me.

    #358. Posted by: undauntied at March 26, 2010 6:29 PM

    #350. welh: FOUND:

    Tee hee...do you mean known unknowns or unknown unknowns? ; >

    #358. undauntied: Answers:

    Good questions all...I especially would want to hear about Desmond. Just as a trivia note, Desmond is now the character who's been missing in action for the longest streak of episodes & still been listed as part of the main cast.

    #359. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 26, 2010 8:57 PM

    I can take all of the letters from "North Carolina" and "South Dakota" and rearrange them to "South Carolina and North Dakota"
    #336. Posted by: Cheese

    Point = cheese

    #360. Posted by: mtncbn at March 26, 2010 10:05 PM

    @348 Alias...Oh, Dumbledore! I love him and the whole Harry Potter series. Great quote!

    Also, my question...if this is a character driven show, which Darlton has said many times, please explain exactly how they are all intertwined. Mainly how the Dharma Initiative, the Others, Widmore & Hawking fit with what we are currently seeing with the Losties, Templetons and the Candidates. We've seen a little explanation, but give me more, please.

    @351 Gumbo...I have decided that I must read "The Stand." I have seen so many comments on here about it and heard Darlton reference it. The reviews of it on Amazon are phenomenal. I feel like I'm missing out.

    @352 lostincyberspace...Jacob and MIB being a devil/angel on a shoulder....gave me goosebumps for some reason...WHO's shoulder???

    Well, in Animal House they were on John Belushi's shoulder, I believe. It's been a long time so I may be wrong, though.

    On the island, Jacob & the MIB would be the angel & devil respectively on the shoulders of any and everyone that they are trying to get to do their bidding, right? Richard would be their most recent example shown.

    #361. Posted by: lost3theworld at March 26, 2010 10:21 PM

    I'm sad I was at work and didn't get to answer Cecil's word teaser. Congrats to Cheese for knowing it though!

    #362. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 26, 2010 10:36 PM

    @361

    You must read The Stand, it is my all time favorite book. Stephen King always has excellent character driven books which is why I like his books and Lost...if I could just give you one piece of advice...wait until flu season is past.

    Since it seems like a slow night...

    Why did Kate cross the road???

    She was tracking the chicken!!

    #363. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 26, 2010 10:38 PM

    Did nobody notice that the whole episode was supposed to have Spanish people talking but instead it was Cuban accent all the way?? That was kinda funny. You would think such a high profile show would care about these things...that was not a Spanish accent AT ALL.

    #364. Posted by: juan at March 27, 2010 12:03 AM

    I can take all of the letters from "North Carolina" and "South Dakota" and rearrange them to "South Carolina and North Dakota"
    #336. Posted by: Cheese

    If there was a possibility of another season of LOST, this particular comeback MIGHT have dethroned RedNeckMan for "Gotcha" of the Year! RNM escapes by the hairs on his chinnie-chin-chin...and eight episodes!

    #365. Posted by: davidrh at March 27, 2010 12:11 AM

    I would have thought from previous shows that Richard(Ricardus) would have had a Latin origin. He did answer "what lies in the shadow of the statue" in latin, didn't he? And Juliet and Widmore spoke latin?

    #366. Posted by: mtncbn at March 27, 2010 12:24 AM

    Could the butterfly just be symbolic for The Moth episode from season one?

    #367. Posted by: pebspostal at March 27, 2010 12:36 AM

    @ 357 Cheese:

    I'm pretty sure this hasn't been said. It's probably because it's so effing absurd, but what if MIB's body is behind the locked door of the sub!!! DUN DUN DUN!!!

    Phew-eeee, now that would be a scent to be reckoned with!

    #368. Posted by: glostover at March 27, 2010 9:21 AM

    @ 364. juan: Given how awful Jin's Korean is, I doubt anyone really cares if they used a Cuban, Mexican, or Canary island accent.

    #369. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 27, 2010 10:00 AM

    Nestor said Alpert was from the Canary Islands (not Spain)and that the accent is similar to a Cuban accent. In any case...I can honestly say that I did not notice the regional accent being untrue. For one because I was impressed that his Spanish was good and for two because although I've heard Spanish spoken by Spaniards, Salvadorians, Mexicans, Columbians, Venezuelans, Panamanians, Cubans, etc, I've never heard Spanish spoken by a native resident of the Canary Island.

    #366 mtncbn: ? Richard is from a Latin background...he speaks Spanish and he is Catholic. Back then the Mass was said in Latin, so no doubt Richard could recite the entire Mass and several prayers in Latin (I use to be able to do it...Although I'm not as old as Richard, I am old enough that the Mass was still said in Latin when I attended church.)

    #370. Posted by: undauntid at March 27, 2010 11:17 AM

    Why does MIB kill people?
    To get to the other side??

    Cricket, cricket.

    The lack of a backstory swoosh, as Alaïs_Longthought mentioned way back at #20, has been tickling my noggin since Tuesday. I can think of several possible reasons it was missing:

    1. This flashback was odd in that it went back a century and a quarter, plus it was all about Richard, so maybe the writers got distracted by those B-A-Uteeful eyelashes and just forgot the swoosh.

    2. A good portion of the flashback occurred on the island so maybe the rules of backstory swooshing don't apply.

    3. The flashback was not really a flashback at all but instead showed an alt timeline for Richard from an earlier timeline split. Or rather, bear with my nosebleeding for a sec, it was a flashback in an alt timeline. No alt timeline airplane sound effect because it wasn't the Oceanic 815 timeline split, but there was a swoosh back to the present (maybe to indicate convergence of Richard's alt timeline with the current timeline?)

    Let's say Jacob wasn't watching Jack, Kate and crew their whole lives but rather traveled back in time after Oceanic 815 landed and he figured out which ones were worth getting to know (and who looked good on TV). If Jacob can travel back in time 30 years to visit Kate and Sawyer and, say, 10 years to visit Jack and Jin/Sun, why couldn't he travel back to 1867, perhaps at the request of Alvar Hanso to visit Grandpa Hanso? Maybe there was some kind of timeline split back in or around 1867.

    #371. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 27, 2010 12:11 PM

    @367 Pepspostal

    Interesting point, I'd forgotten about that entirely. I've reread the transcripts for that epi and it mentions the moth. Now I'm off the find the current epi transcripts to see it its mentioned there.

    #372. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 27, 2010 12:13 PM

    @361 lost3theworld, I think the angel and devil were on Larry Kroger's (Tom Hulce) shoulder.

    #373. Posted by: August Paul at March 27, 2010 12:21 PM

    @344, Alaïs_Longthought regarding the story making sense: I'm with you there. If the track record of the show so far is any indication I'm guessing TPTB will not give definite answers where they can get away with ambiguous ones. A good example of this, but by no means the only one, is the case of Anthony Cooper, Locke's dad, coming to the Island. Iirc on the show it was never definitively answered how he got there, who brought him, how, why... Some clues where dropped and we could decide for ourselves what to think about them. In some extra `non-canon' material Darlton confirm that the Others staged a car accident and brought him to the Island, which to me seems to say that at the moment of writing they have some idea of what is going on, but they deliberately do not make it explicit. Both to add mystery to the show and probably also to make possible future continuity errors less severe. My guess is that a lot of questions on the show will be left open to such ambiguity, at least the second tier questions (you know, the ones that we think are important, but the general viewer has forgotten about long ago) like "what's the deal with Claire's psychic?", "what has been going on with Jacob's Cabin?", "are all the walking dead MIB?", "do Hurley and Miles really communicate with the dead or are they being played by MIB, Jacob, or someone else?", "how does Eloise Hawking know that monk (forgot his name)?" etc etc etc


    @350, welh: Lol. Lost already did that by including 42 in the Numbers.


    #355, san: "are we to expect "LOST THE ANIMATED SERIES" next year,
it could be made at reasonable cost using puppets (supermarionation),
no need for expensive locations, tracy island would do nicely,
ben linus on strings,
i'd watch that."

    Then watch Lost Untangled on the ABC website!

    #374. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 27, 2010 12:36 PM

    @371 I defer to you on the angel & devil. It has been almost two decades since I have watched that fine piece of American cinema. ;-)

    #375. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 27, 2010 12:44 PM

    cheesy denouement: Hurley seems to be the only person who can talk to dead people. Jacob, dead, is the only person who sort of knows what's going on and while alive had some sort of power over MIB. So in the end, we will have to have Jacob explaining the entire plot to us through Hurley, maybe sitting around a campfire on the island. Maybe ALL the dead people can drop by and let us know how they feel about all of this. At which point the MIB appears and kills Hurley and we are left with Hurley talking to himself by the fire. Fadeout.

    #376. Posted by: August Paul at March 27, 2010 12:47 PM

    I'm trying to figure out Smokey.

    The anti-smoke towers on the island and the towers (assuming they are also anti-smoke towers) erected by Widmore's people from the sub. If Widmore is on the side of MIB and if MIB is Smokey, why does Widmore need protection from Smokey?

    If MIB is Smokey and they (it) are the opposition, how does Ben have the ability to release Smokey from the underground "cage" and sic it on Keamy?

    How was it Ben had to release Smokey on Keamy when Smokey had been roaming the island from the outset? Was that an underground path that by-passed the anti-smokey towers and permitted Smokey inside the protected perimeter?

    Is MIB lying about "being" Smokey? Are there three entities involved in this upcoming battle, Jacob, MIB, and Smokey?

    Is Smokey less an entity and more a weapon?

    Are MIB and Jacob both jailers charged with the containment of Smokey on the island?

    Or is Jacob charged with keeping the specific entity which we call MIB and Smokey from joining?

    Was the entity we saw kept in the cabin kept there specifically to prevent it and Smokey from hooking up?

    Smokey can present as Yemi or other dead but those dead have no consciousness. Whereas MIB has only a consciousness...does Smokey hooking with that consciousness represent an entirely new form? That is, there is Jacob, there is MIB, there is Smokey and now there is the hybrid Smokey/MIB.

    What happened that now prevents MIB from changing physical appearance? Was it the death of Jacob or the burial of Locke's remains? Or might it be that Smokey and MIB hooked up and "created" that fourth entity?

    Just wondering.

    #377. Posted by: undauntid at March 27, 2010 1:07 PM

    In the latest ABC audio podcast, D&C revelaed, not the codeword for the finale, but the actual title of the finale.

    Two words, three letters each, only one vowel, and the same vowel, in each.

    #378. Posted by: Cecil at March 27, 2010 1:29 PM

    @377/undauntid: Is MIB lying about "being" Smokey? Are there three entities involved in this upcoming battle, Jacob, MIB, and Smokey?

    This season:

    * we've repeatedly heard the Smokey sound leading up to MIB's appearance
    * MIB disapearing/reappearing when going into or coming out of Smokey attack mode
    * an episode where we actually saw Smokey's POV as he traveled across the island, followed by him immediately appearing as MIB
    * MIB verbally acknowledging that he is Smokey

    You raise some interesting theories, but at this point I think we have to take it for what it is and accept that MIB and Smokey are the same entity.

    #379. Posted by: Mizzed at March 27, 2010 1:41 PM

    Random observation:

    Jin/Sun & Ricardo/Isabella: Learning English. Is that what people in love do nowadays?

    #380. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 27, 2010 1:50 PM

    Mizzed: Then my question is: Who was "trapped" by a ring of ash in that cabin if not MIB? Certainly not Smokey.

    Do you think it was Jacob?

    #381. Posted by: undauntid at March 27, 2010 2:01 PM

    #378. Posted by: Cecil at March 27, 2010 1:29 PM

    Two words, three letters each, only one vowel, and the same vowel, in each.

    hmmmmmmmmm...The End????

    #382. Posted by: surefoot at March 27, 2010 2:45 PM

    But if that was Jacob in the cabin (as Illana seemed to think it was supposed to be) was Richard trekking to the cabin for his instructions? And if Richard was trekking to the cabin, and it was Jacob in the cabin, why did Jacob ask Locke, "Help me." ? Why couldn't Richard render the assistance Jacob needed?

    my nose is bleeding.

    #383. Posted by: undauntid at March 27, 2010 3:26 PM

    #380. Plain Simple: Couples learning English:

    I suppose technically Jin & Sun didn't learn English together...but "Bonding Over Berlitz" & "Romancing the Rosetta Stone" were just too punny to pass up (you can insert the rim shot at any time here)... ; )

    #382. surefoot: Title of the finale:

    You beat me to it...that's the first thing that came to mind, though! : )

    #383: undaunted: Nosebleeds:

    I just got six boxes of Puffs at the store the other night...the type w/lotion. I have the feeling we're going to need them. ; )

    #384. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 27, 2010 4:13 PM

    Great comments everyone!

    I can't help thinking about the wine bottle breaking. It seems to me that if the wine is the evil, and the cork is the island, then perhaps the bottle is time. I think there was a point to be made when MIB broke the bottle. Not only did he shatter time, but the cork, or island stayed in tact. In fact, it seems somewhat irrelevant in "containing" the evil. So, the island's role, geographic position, etc. seems to have no bearing on whether or not the "evil" is contained. And whether time is linear (as a whole bottle), or jagged (shattered glass), the evil will find its way out.

    ...Just a thought.

    (If I could save time in a bottle...haha -- someone had to say it!)

    #385. Posted by: Andrea at March 27, 2010 4:53 PM

    #379. Posted by: Mizzed at March 27, 2010 1:41 PM
    You raise some interesting theories, but at this point I think we have to take it for what it is and accept that MIB and Smokey are the same entity.
    - - - - - - - -
    Agreed. Plus the enhanced episodes and the preseason recap with Mike Emerson narrating have been using the names:
    Jacob's Nemesis, Man In Black and Smoke Monster, interchangeably.

    #386. Posted by: Polar Bears Wanted at March 27, 2010 4:59 PM

    @383/undauntid: "But if that was Jacob in the cabin (as Illana seemed to think it was supposed to be) was Richard trekking to the cabin for his instructions?"

    Okay, here's a too long theory on Smokey, the cabin and MIB. (I stress theory, because these are just ideas, not deinitive statements.)

    The cabin was never Jacob's. Ilana never refers to Jacob by name when investigating the cabin, but says "he" "is no longer living there, and hasn't for some time."

    Ben said it was Jacob's cabin, but we later find out that Ben never spoke to or saw Jacob, making him an unreliable source.

    When Flocke demanded Richard take the Others to see Jacob, Richard headed right for the statue, not a cabin in the woods. Even the Jacobites secret passcode starts with "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

    We see that MIB was plotting how to kill Jacob just as the Black Rock arrived, as seen in the finale of last season.

    Recruiting Richard as an assassin was an initial clumsy attempt. Requiring a more sophisticated plan, MIB stopped indiscriminately killing everybody in sight, and instead started "scanning" for candidates.

    This allowed newer arrivals to band together as the Others, relatively immune to physical attacks from Smokey.

    Smokey finds an initial partner in a power mad Widmore, chafing behind his #3 designation in the Others power structure, behind Richard and Hawking.

    Widmore sells his "soul" for power and money, and begins the off-island plotting necessary for the loophole plan to work.

    Sometime after the Purge, part or all of this plan is uncovered, leading to Widmore's exile from the island. At the same time, Jacob somehow seperates MIB from his Smokey abilities (MIB: Jacob stole my humanity).

    MIB's human self- the portion that can touch, walk, etc., is trapped in the cabin, surrounded by a circle of ash he cannot break.

    Meanwhile his Smokey part still travels around the island in a sort of animal-like state- a body without a head. he can appear in human state only as a phantom (Christian to Jack, Yemi to Eko, etc.).

    It is this disconnected human self that Ben and Locke encounter in the "Help Me" cabin scene.

    By the beginning of season 4, someone has broken the circle of ash, and allowed both the cabin to move (as seen by Hurley) and for MIB/Smokey to take on a full physical presence, explaining how Christian can carry Aaron away from the camp.

    He continues to appear as Christian to Locke because he needs to deliver the critical message "Tell my son I said hello" that will drive Jack to work with Ben to bring Locke's dead body back to the island.

    MIB doesn't actually need the physical body of Locke- he is assuming shape, not reanimating corpses. But he needs Locke back on island, so that the manipulation already in place with Richard (as handled in the time jumps) and with Ben can result in the end of Jacob ("You wouldn't believe all I've gone through").

    #387. Posted by: Mizzed at March 27, 2010 6:28 PM

    377 Undaunted posted:

    I'm trying to figure out Smokey.

    The anti-smoke towers on the island and the towers (assuming they are also anti-smoke towers) erected by Widmore's people from the sub. If Widmore is on the side of MIB and if MIB is Smokey, why does Widmore need protection from Smokey?

    MISHA:

    If MIB is Smokey and they (it) are the opposition, how does Ben have the ability to release Smokey from the underground "cage" and sic it on Keamy?

    MISHA:

    #388. Posted by: misha at March 27, 2010 8:43 PM

    377 Undaunted posted:

    I'm trying to figure out Smokey.

    The anti-smoke towers on the island and the towers (assuming they are also anti-smoke towers) erected by Widmore's people from the sub. If Widmore is on the side of MIB and if MIB is Smokey, why does Widmore need protection from Smokey?

    MISHA: *Maybe Widmore is not with MIB, or there is another smoke entity (Christian?) he wants to keep out.something else*

    If MIB is Smokey and they (it) are the opposition, how does Ben have the ability to release Smokey from the underground "cage" and sic it on Keamy?

    MISHA: *maybe it wasn't summoning, maybe it was pleading, not sure at all if MIB would agree. How much did Ben really know about what he was doing? Maybe it was in MIB's best interest that Ben didn't know much about him, what he was really capable of and what his agenda was. The water with the plug thing could simply be ritual stuff, not having much, if anything to do with rules/limits that MIB faces*

    #389. Posted by: misha at March 27, 2010 8:45 PM

    I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this before, but I use stop motion on the smoke monster. In the smoke there are brief white flashes. The flashes are images, on the ship as the Smoke Monster approaches Ricardo we see a head shot that appears to be Richard latter on in life. In addition when the Smoke Monster comes eye to eye with Mr Eko there are images in the smoke of Jesus on the cross. Those were the only two times that I checked is stop action

    #390. Posted by: bfried7 at March 27, 2010 11:19 PM

    #387. Mizzed:

    Interesting, but the timing is off for part of it...when the Black Rock wrecked on the island in 1867 is when MIB told Richard "the Devil" stole his humanity, meaning that his humanity had been stolen prior to that date. The Purge didn't happen until the 1980s or early 1990s (Lostpedia says it might have been 1992, based on Locke's dream in which Horace appeared), & Widmore wasn't exiled from the island until after the Purge.

    #391. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 28, 2010 12:50 AM

    2x2x2x2x2x2=me

    #392. Posted by: Cecil at March 28, 2010 1:39 AM

    If Smokey can travel about committing mayhem independent of MIB and MIB can be imprisoned in a cabin independent of Smokey, then I consider that separate entities. Like oxygen atoms are oxygen atoms and iron atoms are iron atoms but when joined together they become hematite. And if I knew anything about chemistry I'm thinking I could have come up with two elements that, when combined, result in something powerfully explosive...but I don't, so I can't.

    #393. Posted by: undauntid at March 28, 2010 1:56 AM

    @384, Alaïs_Longthought :)

    @387, Mizzed: "Sometime after the Purge, part or all of this plan is uncovered, leading to Widmore's exile from the island. At the same time, Jacob somehow seperates MIB from his Smokey abilities (MIB: Jacob stole my humanity)."

    Iirc MIB said that Jacob stole his humanity to Richard back in the 19th century, not after the Purge.

    #394. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 28, 2010 2:04 AM

    Knowing that Richard is immortal and kinda important to Jacob, is it okay to say that he is Jacob's CONSTANT? (not so sure if Jacob needs one)

    #395. Posted by: vaz at March 28, 2010 7:34 AM

    Why would Jacob need a cabin if he's got that nice cozy studio with beautiful columns, wall paintings and a fireplace?

    #396. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 28, 2010 8:18 AM

    Scooby-Dude, why are you begrudging the man a vacation home?

    #397. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 28, 2010 8:28 AM

    Well, sure, if he needed a place for himself and the missus, but he seems like a desperate bachelor to me -- goes fishing, drinks with his buddies, plays with his loom....

    #398. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 28, 2010 9:51 AM

    Yeah...about Jacob stole MIB's "humanity". What does that mean anyway?

    I wonder if MIB is referring to his imprisonment? That he is caged like an animal.

    And that just brought something to mind...Are the polar bears and the cages a symbol of MIB's predicament? Those poor bears were taken from their natural habitat, imprisoned in the tropics, and prevented from exercising their polar bearness.

    #399. Posted by: undauntid at March 28, 2010 11:52 AM

    Yeah...about Jacob stole MIB's "humanity". What does that mean anyway?

    I wonder if MIB is referring to his imprisonment? That he is caged like an animal.

    And that just brought something to mind...Are the polar bears and the cages a symbol of MIB's predicament? Those poor bears were taken from their natural habitat, imprisoned in the tropics, and prevented from exercising their polar bearness.

    #400. Posted by: undauntid at March 28, 2010 11:53 AM

    @391/Alais, @394/Plain Simple

    I don't think the timing of the Purge matters here, because we have no idea what Smokey/MIB was doing between 1992-2004- in theory, part of him could have been trapped in the cabin during this time.

    Good catch from both of you on the "humanity" comment, though, which certainly puts a large hole in my theory.

    Okay, since it still seems illogical that Jacob was in the cabin saying "help me", I'm back to the place otherwise known as "I have no idea what those scenes were all about in the cabin but we better get a reasonable explanation sometime in the next 8 episodes".

    #401. Posted by: Mizzed at March 28, 2010 12:07 PM

    Re the question as to whether the ship seen in the calm water in the "Incident" is the same as the Black Rock which arrived in a storm... Didn't we see flight 316 go from clear skies in the day to storm clouds at night almost instantaniously???

    #402. Posted by: Andy at March 28, 2010 12:50 PM

    #392. Cecil wrote early in the morning: 2x2x2x2x2x2=me

    We still love you!

    #403. Posted by: LockeBox at March 28, 2010 3:23 PM

    @402 ANDY:

    The producers have said (in this week's podcast) that the Black Rock was indeed the ship seen off in the distance in "The Incident" episode. Their explanation was a clear/sunny morning turned later into a stormy afternoon. Same ship though. Same day.

    #404. Posted by: GatorGal at March 28, 2010 4:04 PM

    @403 LockeBox wrote:

    >#392. Cecil wrote early in the morning: 2x2x2x2x2x2=me

    >We still love you!

    Will you still need me?
    Will you still feed me?

    #405. Posted by: Cecil at March 28, 2010 6:50 PM

    #405. Cecil:

    And do you have grandchildren named Vera, Chuck, & Dave? ; >

    Happy Birthday! : )

    #406. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 28, 2010 6:53 PM

    Anthony and Keila are over and we're about to have to have cake, and I've made then honorary Chuck-Dave and Vera.

    With the surgery last fall the "Yours sincerely, wasting away" line really applies.

    See www.carepages.com/carepages/alabamao68

    for the full story on that.

    #407. Posted by: Cecil at March 28, 2010 7:49 PM

    A very happy birthday to you Cecil!

    #408. Posted by: undauntid at March 28, 2010 8:14 PM

    Happy Birthday Cecil!
    Got any pictures from your summer on the Ilse of Wight? Or was it too dear?

    #409. Posted by: berkyo at March 28, 2010 9:34 PM

    Happy birthday Cecil!

    #410. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 28, 2010 9:57 PM

    Happy, Happy Birthday, Cecil!!!

    The MIB not only said that Jacob stole his humanity, but also his body. That was my reason for my theory in #318 & #349.

    The MIB is the Jacob's "evil spirit" separated from his body. This is why Jacob could bleed & die and MIB couldn't. This would also explain MIB's dependence on/attachment to Locke after Jacob died. This would explain their ying and yangness.

    #411. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 28, 2010 10:33 PM

    Happy birthday Cecil.

    I was really slow figuring out the clue.
    Just barely made it in today(east coast time).

    #412. Posted by: mtncbn at March 28, 2010 11:47 PM

    @304/davidrh
    Yes I do follow this blog. I have been for the last couple of years. I also know that Lost has been compared to the Stand, since about the beginning of the show. Yes I have since read all the posts. I happen to really like the Stand and know that it has been mentioned many times before, but never about this episode and this scene in the book or the show. I like that. I'm so sorry if it upset your little blog paradise.
    I don't post on here much, but I had always thought it was something one could do, and not be spit on.
    I'm sorry that you are an ass, but there is nothing I can do about that.
    BTW your mouse has a roller to scroll past postings you don't like. Use it.

    #413. Posted by: thelostwaltz at March 29, 2010 8:57 AM

    @304/davidrh
    Yes I do follow this blog. I have been for the last couple of years. I also know that Lost has been compared to the Stand, since about the beginning of the show. Yes I have since read all the posts. I happen to really like the Stand and know that it has been mentioned many times before, but never about this episode and this scene in the book or the show. I like that. I'm so sorry if it upset your little blog paradise.
    I don't post on here much, but I had always thought it was something one could do, and not be spit on.
    I'm sorry that you are an ass, but there is nothing I can do about that.
    BTW your mouse has a roller to scroll past postings you don't like. Use it.

    #414. Posted by: thelostwaltz at March 29, 2010 8:58 AM

    Happy birthday Cecil!

    You're not getting older, you're getting longer.

    I have no idea what that means.

    #415. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 29, 2010 9:04 AM

    @415 ransomjackson said:

    >Happy birthday Cecil!

    >You're not getting older, you're getting longer.

    >I have no idea what that means.

    In the fourth, timewise, dimension, of course. While shrinking in width and breadth. Hopefully staying the same in length, though when buying pants recently the 30" inseam I've worn all my adult life now seems to be too long.

    #416. Posted by: Cecil at March 29, 2010 9:15 AM

    How many episodes are left????
    This is really important people.. anyone have an idea?

    #417. Posted by: mapache at March 29, 2010 9:31 AM

    #413 !!!! thelostwaltz

    WHOA BOY! I think there’s been a BIG MISUNDERSTANDING HERE!

    First of all, I don’t know anything about “the stand” . . I don’t read Stephen King . . my little blog scream is a RUNNING JOKE for about four seasons and refers to the “I haven’t read all of the posts” line that we see so often...

    And surely you have seen it (and shared in the laugh) if you have been “following the blog for the last couple of years” as you state here . . .

    And it was meant as a running joke which even you should have realized immediately from the sentence inserts I used in my post.

    So I’m sorry if I offended you . . . obviously you are REALLY MAD because you double posted your note . . . There are times when I pound on my kepboard also . . . it’s like hitting the up or down button on an elevator callboard . . . it you keep hitting the elevator comes sooner . . .

    So please forgive me for irritating you. I promise to overlook your posts from now on.

    Peace and Love Brother. :-)

    #418. Posted by: davidrh at March 29, 2010 10:02 AM

    Everyone feel better? Good. Now let's all return to our corners and be nice.

    #419. Posted by: mac at March 29, 2010 10:08 AM

    :-)

    #420. Posted by: davidrh at March 29, 2010 10:53 AM

    @417 According to the ABC website, there are 7 new episodes remaining before the finale.

    #421. Posted by: srharmon at March 29, 2010 10:53 AM

    Yikes! Some tension in here....

    Perhaps I could suggest some Lost themed mental relaxation to change the mood?

    Just started checking some of these out today, and they have cracked me up!

    From the looks of things, these twitpics mini comics are posted after each episode. No idea when this started. Here are some of the ones I really enjoyed:

    http://twitpic.com/1ajs2u
    http://twitpic.com/1ajjxo
    http://twitpic.com/1ai9pd
    http://twitpic.com/17nv9q
    http://twitpic.com/17nlpk
    http://twitpic.com/17nk0r
    http://twitpic.com/16bbom
    http://twitpic.com/16b9im
    http://twitpic.com/150fih
    http://twitpic.com/150dxz
    http://twitpic.com/150d14
    http://twitpic.com/150auc
    http://twitpic.com/13p3li

    Check it out - you will not regret!

    If you click on my name, it will take you to his entire collection, which consists of other stuff!

    #422. Posted by: shikotee at March 29, 2010 11:39 AM

    shikotee those are hilarious! Thanks for posting them! I especially liked the ranch dressing one :-D

    #423. Posted by: glostover at March 29, 2010 11:50 AM

    davidrh
    I am sorry I over reacted to your post. I so seldom post that I take it way too personally. My bad.
    I have noticed your "screams" many times here. To be honest, I have passed them by, thinking they have nothing to do with the story. Also my bad. (50yr old women are way too emotional).
    I love Lost, and I think this blog is really great.

    #424. Posted by: thelostwaltz at March 29, 2010 12:01 PM

    I'm getting a tad weepy...feeling the love...smearing my guyliner...like they shot Ol' Yeller again...or when Cujo died...or when Godzilla met Bambi...or when Richard Gere says in Officer and a Gentleman, "I got no place left to go..."

    Oh wait...that last one always cracks me up. Never mind.

    #425. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 29, 2010 12:14 PM

    #425. ransomjackson: Guyliner:

    You need to get whatever brand Richard uses...it's impervious to sweat, surf, & the sands of time... ; >

    #426. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 29, 2010 12:46 PM

    Sharpie?

    Here it comes...I just know it...thanks Alais.

    Now we're gonna get lambasted by every Laverne and Shirley and Lenny and Squiggy out there on the interweb reminding us that Nestor doesn't use guyliner, that his eyes are just naturally thick and dark and dreamy and luscious and...ah crap...

    NO, he is not my man-crush.

    That would be Jason Statham.

    Davidrh...get your aauugghh ready...no better not.

    Crap...what's left?

    IITY? WGNABB?

    How 'bout that House blog? Hey, I heard Cecil is 64. And he's damn handy at mending a gate.

    Ransom out.

    #427. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 29, 2010 1:25 PM

    Sharpie?

    Here it comes...I just know it...thanks Alais.

    Now we're gonna get lambasted by every Laverne and Shirley and Lenny and Squiggy out there on the interweb reminding us that Nestor doesn't use guyliner, that his eyes are just naturally thick and dark and dreamy and luscious and...ah crap...

    NO, he is not my man-crush.

    That would be Jason Statham.

    Davidrh...get your aauugghh ready...no better not.

    Crap...what's left?

    IITY? WGNABB?

    How 'bout that House blog? Hey, I heard Cecil is 64. And he's damn handy at mending a gate.

    Ransom out.

    #428. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 29, 2010 1:25 PM

    #428. ransomjackson: Sharpie:

    Just couldn't resist: "Maybe he's born w/it....maybe it's Maybelline." ; >

    FWIW, I hated Laverne & Shirley.

    What about WGNMG (We're going to need more guyliner)?

    Perhaps I should return to my homework... ; )

    #429. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 29, 2010 1:35 PM

    I hated L&S w/ a passion...but it was on after Happy Days and I was too lazy to get up to turn the channel because we didn't have a remote.

    I saw League of Their Own (directed by Penny Marshall aka Laverne) this weekend and just realized that the Big Ragu was Madonna's dance partner in the Suds Bucket dance scene.

    I'm going out for another Sharpie...

    Maybe Mac can delete my double post...first one errored out on me so I hit Post again. Gracias, jefe.

    #430. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 29, 2010 2:11 PM

    @421 Thanks sharmon!!!
    thats sad though, i really look forward to this show every week....

    #431. Posted by: mapache at March 29, 2010 2:14 PM

    GreaT review as always Mac! I have been a frequent & avid reader of this blog for the past several but this is my first post since there was an observation that I made in last week's episode that may have some significance going forward. Let me know what you think!
    First Observation, last week there was a very deliberate display of Mani in Black touching Richard's shoulder prior to giving him the drink of water in the bottom of the "Black Rock". Later, we also see him touched directly by Jacob on the beach. At this point, it appears as though Richard was the only one on the island to be touched by both of these adversaries AND to receive an offer from both of them. PERHAPS, that explains why HE is the one who must kill/stop FLOCKE to prevent him from taking everyone there "to hell". PERHAPS, he was endowed with powers form BOTH of them & we may find out later on.

    Side note: If Man in Black was in fact the mysterious black horse on the island touched by Kate & Sawyer way back in Season 1, PERHAPS that might come into play later this season as well.

    Second Observation, Flocke seems to make dleiberate attempts to shake/ hold hands with Kate to help her up in the prior week's episode and apparently with Sun in the next episode when he tries to get her to go with him to re-unite with Jin! That is when it struck me as odd and that it might Flocke's way of begining the exertion of his influence over people. Food for thought!

    Things we still need & want explained:
    1) Who really are "Jacob" & MIB/Flocke and how did the get there. We really need an origin story here!
    2) Where did the lighthouse, the temple; the frozen donkey wheel & that Statue orginate from (Egyption?, Phoenician?) and perhaps that water well near the FDW.
    3) Confirmation about what the island really is and how it si able to move and not "unseal" or "Uncork" the opening to Hell!

    Let me know your thoughts!

    Thanks,

    Todd in RI

    #432. Posted by: Todd In RI at March 29, 2010 2:14 PM

    Happy belated birthday Cecil!

    #433. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 29, 2010 2:51 PM

    re: Touched by Jacob/MIB

    We've discussed the relevancy of the touch of Jacob, to the point where it was observed that we even looked at the relevancy of his wearing gloves when he visits Ilana. But does touch alone really do anything?

    I'd have to re-watch, but when Jacob fights Richard, does he not touch him in the process? In doing so, does this already change things for Richard? It is only after that Jacob decides to bestow the gift of immortality.

    My point being - could it not be that it has to be a combo of touch and intent?

    #434. Posted by: shikotee at March 29, 2010 2:52 PM

    TNGHDTP!
    There Not Getting Hurley Down That Porthole.

    Hugo is not getting off the island by submarine, unless he is riding on top of it. He won't fit through the hatch/ladder way. I guess he could dive into it and he could be "the cork" for once.

    That means Hurley needs to leave by Ajira, or stay. Hugo still does own 90% of the seats on Ajira, since they haven't made it to Guam yet. I guess he could sell seats to those that want to leave the island. For profit. Temple folks get a discount. Don't feel sorry for the rotting Ajirans on Hydra... Hugo tried to buy as many of the seats that he could in LA.

    #435. Posted by: ANON2 at March 29, 2010 4:17 PM

    @ransomjackson

    WGNMB: Tip #1

    They make extra fine line Sharpies now. That would enable you to get the perfect width for your luscious lashes. We don't want you looking all racoonish.

    Just trying to help you a brotha out.

    #436. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 29, 2010 4:24 PM

    D'oh! That should read...

    WGNMG: Tip #1

    #437. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 29, 2010 4:27 PM

    thinking about the candidates....

    I wonder if the candidate Rousseau (or Linus) was Alex? Because that would explain Ben thinking Keamy wouldn't or couldn't kill her. Poor Ben was incredulous. Didn't he even say something like, "he broke the rules." And that makes me wonder what was it that Ben miscalculated? What wasn't the way Ben thought it was?

    I wonder if Jacob and/or Richard met all the candidates when they were kids but we only saw it with a couple of them. Because it is interesting to me that Richard has been around Locke since Locke was born. Was Locke unique among the other candidates in that regard?

    #438. Posted by: undauntid at March 29, 2010 6:12 PM

    #438. Posted by: undauntid

    I'm pretty sure Richard only went to see Locke when he was born because he told him to do so when they were Fooming around back in the 50s and saw that big green thing that they buried. I forget what that was called though...

    #439. Posted by: Cheese at March 29, 2010 6:38 PM

    #438. Posted by: undauntid

    I'm pretty sure Richard only went to see Locke when he was born because he told him to do so when they were Fooming around back in the 50s and saw that big green thing that they buried. I forget what that was called though...

    #440. Posted by: Cheese at March 29, 2010 6:39 PM

    @432, Todd in RI: "2) Where did the lighthouse, the temple; the frozen donkey wheel & that Statue orginate from (Egyption?, Phoenician?) and perhaps that water well near the FDW."

    I think we know the well was built after the statue. Iirc during one of the FOOMs the Foomies see the unbroken statue while Sawyer is holding the rope of the well, but the well hasn't been built yet. Or am I mixing up my FOOMs here?

    #441. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 29, 2010 7:28 PM

    cheese: yep. you are right; I'd forgotten thar.

    #442. Posted by: undauntid at March 29, 2010 7:47 PM

    When we try to figure out what’s going on here in these last eight episodes we have to be reminded about the Rules:
    Ben said to Keamy after killing Alex “He broke the rules” -. There are other times that rules come up, when Ben visits Widmore in his London bed. Ben kills everyone in site but doesn’t kill Widmore. “You know I can’t kill you” it’s not in the rules. Another time Desmond tries to buy a ring for Penny, in London. Mrs. Widmore (Daniels Mother) is the Jeweler. He says “OK I’ll take that ring” she says’ no you don’t you’re not supposed to say that. Your supposed to walk right out of here and buy nothing. - What are the rules? Who made the rules? Aren’t rules usually for games like Baseball, Basketball, Golf or even Backgammon? The overall theme of Lost is why are they are on the Island., But if you really look deep into this show. The real question is why are we here, meaning you and me. Where did we come from and how did it all start. This is truly a great show.

    #443. Posted by: bfried7 at March 29, 2010 8:09 PM

    #443. BFried7. Where did we come from and how did it all start?

    I'll have some of what you are smokin'.

    ;-)

    #444. Posted by: Cabernet Heiress at March 29, 2010 9:05 PM

    bfried7: here's a question: Is there one rule which prevents Widmore and Ben from killing each other? Prevents Keamy from killing Alex? Prevents MIB from killing Jacob?

    And related to this "who cannot kill who rule" .... Is that why Locke needed for Sawyer to kill TMFT and then took credit for it himself? Because the rule prevented "Locke" from killing Anthony Cooper? And if so, is that precisely why Ben ordered "Locke" to do it, because he suspected that Locke was not Locke and put him to a test.

    Then that opens up another can of worms: Because why on earth would Richard provide Locke with Sawyer's file to help Locke circumvent the rule and deceive Ben?

    I keep going over it and over it, hoping to identify what each incidence has in common with the other so I can identify the rule. No luck so far.

    #445. Posted by: undauntid at March 29, 2010 9:26 PM

    Long post warning …

    I’ve already voiced my distinct displeasure with this episode; judging by what I’ve read here and elsewhere, it seems safe to say my harsh opinion falls far outside that held by the vast majority. Well, I’m going to be so bold as to suggest that doesn’t mean I’m wrong. What follows is a synopsis of my rationale.

    Let me start by presenting six, apparently random, numbers (but I assure you, they are not haphazardly selected):

    7, 9, 45, 58, 74, 84

    What could they possibly mean? Here’s a big hint: they have something to do with Mac’s filmfodder Lost blog. Another hint: they have something to do with this season. Pretty big hints, really, relative to the infinite possibilities given no such information. Regardless, the numbers still effectively remain indecipherable without further explanation.

    That said, let me just give you the answer … here you go:

    7 vacc
    9 ilovebenjaminlinusxx
    45 LostinVT
    58 glostover
    74 LockeBox
    84 Ames

    Well then, mystery solved … right? Any fool can see the numbers correspond to the names of blog posters. I mean, what more could you possibly want to know? To suggest my answer is incomplete reeks of being a complaining malcontent … geez, it’s *obvious* what the numbers mean!

    Okay, so if you agree with that sentiment, then there’s no point in reading further; my apologies for having bothered you.

    Now, if you think my “answer” is woefully inadequate, that would be entirely sensible, IMO. Listing names, even ones you may recognize, next to these numbers, doesn’t explain the numbers at all. Why these names? Why those numbers? Reasonable questions, and without the answers, there is no explanation of the numbers, is there?

    In fact, I have very explicit answers: (1) the names represent the first six posters to use the word “mirror” in the thread for episode S6E5, “Lighthouse,” (2) and the numbers represent the first post where each poster used the word “mirror” in that thread. That’s an answer, rather than just some disjointed list of names and otherwise nonsensical numbers. Yet I know, one could further ask, why that episode, and why that word? Hey, once again, very reasonable, and perhaps we’ve established the value in asking questions. [Not that it really matters, but I chose that episode, because it’s been mentioned frequently as having explained The Numbers. I used the word “mirror” for no particular reason, other than to establish a firm rule upon which my list of names and numbers could be based.]

    Hopefully you see my point; I propose The Numbers have NOT been “explained” on Lost in any fashion even remotely approaching a sensible answer. I’d also like to emphasize I do not *demand* an explanation. It may seem like a fine point, yet identifying lack of explanation is not the same as insistence for rationale. I have taken great pains in the past to mention I do not believe many elements of the show need to be explained, and think rather that it would be a mistake to even try. However, I have also pointed out that a good story, especially in the realm of science fiction and fantasy, is internally consistent and logical within its own mythology. The presentation of the cave and lighthouse lists made me nervous, because they seem to have been embraced by so many as the long-awaited explanation of the numbers, while I saw nothing but hollow waiving of hands.

    Throwing random bits of information out for consumption is not the same as laying a sound foundation for what follows, and then carefully building upon well-crafted structure. Many people don’t seem to care. Hey, that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean *I* have to see brilliance in a poorly constructed house of cards; it may be interesting to watch it go up, but at some point you just know it’s going to tumble down. IMO, this episode represented that breaking point, with the toppling of the Tawaret statue an apt metaphor for the Lost story collapsing under its own portentous weight.

    “Where doubt is, there truth is - it is her shadow.”
    Ambrose Bierce

    Clearly in opposition to prevailing popular opinion, I was incredibly disappointed by this episode. I hesitate to even begin discussing all I found wrong; there are so many gaffes of implausibility, lack of continuity, poor writing and acting that I’m overwhelmed. So let me address just one to make my point: the Black Rock’s arrival to the island. As presented, it makes the “explanation” of the numbers seem downright levelheaded in comparison.

    Before I even start, I must say a word about TPTB’s confirmation of the Black Rock being the same ship seen off the coast by Jacob and MIB in “The Incident.” Oh, come ON! One need only look up “Black Rock” on Lostpedia for a shot of that scene, as well as the view of the island from onboard shortly before crashing ashore, to realize just how ludicrous that is. So, let me get this straight … the ship sits just off shore in calm seas, under a sunny, early morning sky, with sails billowing. Yet … the island is not reached, and apparently not noticed (based upon the “Ignacio” character’s surprise upon seeing land) until evening. Right.

    Yeah, I know all the “explanations” provided for how this could happen. I also realize there’s no way I will ever be able to dissuade the passionate adherents to TPTB gospel, what with rational thought and all failing to show this just doesn’t make any damned sense. Holding this opinion doesn’t make me uncreative, or unable to “just enjoy the show,” or any other insult likely to come my way for questioning the veracity of that premise; it merely makes me reasonable. What I find unreasonable is how TPTB’s blithe declaration seems to have largely terminated discussion of this glaring continuity problem. Does the phrase, “pay no attention to that man behind the curtain” ring any bells?

    It makes me wonder just how much of a joke TPTB might find this to be. I’ve been somewhat irked by Damon in particular of late, for his making disdainful comments about viewers, and intelligence-insulting proclamations like this Black Rock “explanation.” Then again … if I were in his shoes, I might be rather contemptuous as well, wondering just how ridiculous a comment I’d have to make before being called out for it. This latest one is quite preposterous, yet so many people seem to be swallowing it hook, line and sinker, without so much as a whimper of dissent.

    I can envision Damon and Carlton bantering about just how far to push this:

    Damon: “I say we announce the butterfly is … Isabella’s soul! Yeah, that’ll work.”
    Carlton: “You are such a douche … must you torture them?”
    Damon: “Look, we’ve only got seven episodes left, time is short!”
    Carlton: “It only ends once.”
    Damon: “That’s right. It only ends once.”
    Carlton: “Fine. Isabella’s soul it is. Run with it.”
    Damon: “Soul, hmm. Four-letter word, one O, no A, and everyone has one.”
    Carlton: “Except you.”
    Damon: “Right.”

    Whatever, I’m getting as silly as this episode now. I was going to expound on how Jacob apparently felt so compelled to bring the Black Rock to the island, that he sacrificed his home (i.e. the statue) to do so … yet was also apparently oblivious to the fact that MIB would’ve killed the entire crew, had he not spared Richard and sent him off to Jacob’s lair. Not much of a freaking mastermind, is Jacob? For a guy who seems to be able to manipulate nature to a very large extent, enough to bring people to the island against their will, he seems pretty damned clueless as to what’s actually going on, ON the island itself. Also seems to be somewhat of a future vision disconnect going on here. I mean, say the entire crew of the Black Rock had been killed by MIB … why bring them to the island then? Given he was so surprised to meet Richard on the beach, his survival and subsequent service doesn’t seem to be part of some grand plan either. Yet later on we see Jacob seemingly “moving pieces into place” as if he’s prescient … what gives?

    I’ll tell you … this episode made no logical sense whatsoever, that’s what. Like I said, I was planning to delve into the vast stench of this episode a bit further, but really, I see no further point. I suppose those who loved this installment will continue to do so, regardless of me wasting my breath. Likewise, I will continue to state this as being the worst episode to date, despite the all gushing over how exceptional it was supposed to be. This had the potential to be a truly monumental experience, but IMO, they aimed low, and produced a completely insipid hour of television pabulum. Regrettably, few seem to have noticed. I guess it no longer matters what the quality of the product is, just that it is.

    So now we have a four-letter word that “describes what this series is ultimately all about,” with no A and one E. Some have suggested HOPE … how about changing one letter: HYPE.

    Fire away …

    #446. Posted by: ealgumby at March 29, 2010 9:41 PM

    It doesn't bother me to the extent it bothers you...you know, it's like some people think a Hershey's Bar is terrific chocolate, not only do I accept that, I celebrate it. And too, I am inclined to wait and see because it ain't over til its over.

    You're absolutely right about the umbers; what exactly has been explained? We now know the numbers correspond to names on a compass dial...AND the serial number on a hatch door AND a repeated radio message AND a winning lottery ticket AND a crazy man's rantings... So, that clears that up. lol!

    But the numbers don't bother me because I am an appreciator of synchronicity. I'm willing to accept their occurrence as a mind bogglingly interesting coincidence.

    That being said....I do feel your pain Ealgumby. Why do you think I continue to ask this question: Why the hell doesn't anybody give a sh*t that the wreckage and survivors of flight 815 were found 4000 miles in the opposite direction of it's flight plan, in the wrong freaking ocean? Who thought that was a viable plan? Preposterous!
    Yet there it sits. I'm hoping TPTB will explain that.

    #447. Posted by: undauntid at March 30, 2010 12:18 AM

    446. Posted by: ealgumby
    re: "Fire away …"

    Long time reader - first time poster.
    Yeah - I guess I'm feeling ballsy enough to take on your challenge.


    Volley One

    While we're all pretty into this show, you're coming across as a jaded lover. My fingers are crossed that you do not morph into some jaded stalker who starts sending death threats to the creators (now - the enemy) for ruining something that had the potential to be so much more beautiful. And the more whining I hear on this, the more I just want to say "Hey Mister Smartie pants - Why don't you move your butt down to hollywood and start making the perfect product that everyone will enjoy. Cause you know - it totally is a snap - they just can't do it because they lack the superior brain that you obviously have!"


    Volley Two
    re: The Black Rock

    Seriously - you are actually jaded that TPTB confirmed that it was sighted in “The Incident?” You are tossing and turning at night over this? HOW DARE THEY!?!? Are you kidding me? Let's imagine that it was a different ship. Would it actually make a difference? IMHO - this is a prime example of constructing a mountain out of a molehill. What's next - It can't be them (Jacob and MIB) because the hairstyles from both episodes do not correspond?


    Volley Three
    re: "passionate adherents to TPTB gospel"
    "so many people seem to be swallowing it hook, line and sinker, without so much as a whimper of dissent"

    Well - they keep pouring that Kool-aid, and we just love drinking it! But you're too smart for that. Blessed are you o great wise one for being able to see through their chicanery, and offer us the pure truth that we just can't seem to get. It could be black magic that they are using, that only affects the dimmer of the species, which fortunately, you are not. Alas, these hucksters of lies have got us hooked so strong, we just can't break away. And seriously - you refer to yourself as "reasonable"?

    And you know what? These insults I'm lobbying your way have nothing to do with your actual position - it's your arrogance. You've pretty much insulted us, suggesting that we are sheep. But this is not the case. Most of us pick up on the problems you mention, and love discussing them. We're simply capable of compartmentalizing it. At this stage of the game, we're letting a lot of shit slide because we want to savour these moments, and not froth in rage and anger. It's a bloody choice. What are you - some sort of subversive EMO nut whose totally fighting the system? Get over yourself!


    Volley Four:
    re: Jacob

    Were there some upper floors that were lost when the statue was destroyed? No? As far as I saw, his sparse bachelor pad was still a go after the statue went bye-bye, so I guess it wasn't really "sacrificed." And yeah - there totally seems to be some weird shit with him. He seemingly makes mistakes. I'm not having a tough time bending my mind around this. Now if you were Jacob, we could imagine things would be totally different, right?


    Volley Five
    re: four letter word

    As in - I could think of one that fully expresses how I feel about your BS rant.

    Is the battleship sunk? I doubt it.
    Funny thing is - this isn't even an emotional reaction to your post. I'm simply giving you what you were seemingly fishing for ("fire away"), and maybe a little bit more.
    Just so we are straight - I frankly don't give a turd whether you loathe or love the way this show is progressing. Just stop insulting the people who are enjoying with BS pretenses of superiority.

    It had to be said!

    Seacrest Out!

    #448. Posted by: seacrest at March 30, 2010 1:11 AM

    All I can say is, "Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave."

    New epi in less than 20 hours.

    #449. Posted by: dk at March 30, 2010 1:19 AM

    #448. Posted by: seacrest

    Seacrest, I love you with all my heart. AMEN, brutha!

    #450. Posted by: Isabella's Cross at March 30, 2010 2:56 AM

    Last!

    #451. Posted by: Flambe moi at March 30, 2010 5:03 AM

    NOT!

    #452. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 30, 2010 9:07 AM

    The biggest problem to date is that the Premise of the show is still the biggest mystery. Is the show (island) purgatory, hell, heaven, a space ship, Atlantis, a parallel dimension, a multiverse gate, the crazed dreams of a brillant scholar, an on-line video game, or a supernatural child's playground? Until that is clearly shown, everything we see is based on personal assumptions.

    #453. Posted by: welh at March 30, 2010 9:33 AM

    Not to get overly meta here, but I think the fact that we're spending all this time debating the "problem" of the show reveals there's no problem at all. At least not in an enthusiasm sense. It's certainly reasonable to pick apart the pieces.

    How many other shows generate this level of debate and discourse in their final acts? Most (*cough, cough, 24, cough*) limp into the home stretch.

    #454. Posted by: mac at March 30, 2010 9:41 AM

    @448/seacrest - "I'm simply giving you what you were seemingly fishing for ('fire away')"

    Thanks for the reply. You see, discussion and presentation of differing opinions is a good thing.

    Unfortunately, IMO, there has been a rising tendency of late on this blog to rather quietly quash all dissent ... the tacit status quo seems to be one of joining the adoring masses, or facing sour consequences. Anyone who's not "with the program" just needs to shut the hell up, or become the subject of subtle (or otherwise) personal attack. Fortunately, I'm thick-skinned, and the "anti-complainer" assaults are generally of the same repetitive nature anyway:

    "If you're so smart, why don't you try writing your own show!"
    "If you hate it so much, please leave this blog to those who love the show!"
    "Why can't you just kick back and enjoy the ride, like the rest of us who are trying to savor the remaining episodes!"
    "You people who nitpick each episode to death need to get a life!"
    "You're dumb!"

    Clever.

    So, you see Mr. Seacrest, "fire away" was not invitation, but expectation. So happy you saw fit to oblige, and you covered most of the standard bases. Wow, a new variety of personal attack as well, excellent of you to mix things up:

    "My fingers are crossed that you do not morph into some jaded stalker who starts sending death threats to the creators ..."

    Nice. Actually, if you reread my post, you may note my tune toward TPTB has changed slightly, as I can completely understand their frustration with an undiscerning audience. As of course I am an ass, I can identify. ;)

    Seriously though, dude, you may consider me an arrogant bastard, but that's just a bit of a cheap shot, don't you think? I mean, someone with your vast capacity to demean me, as indicated by your "this isn't even an emotional reaction" quip, shouldn't have to stoop to such a low blow, no?

    You might also note, that despite the admittedly unpleasant tone of my post, I did not personally attack anyone in writing it; so kind of you to reciprocate! You see, there are writing techniques you may eventually pick up, in English 201 perhaps, whereby one can assail another's position without directly insulting them, yet they'll still get the point. It's called implication and inference.

    Here's a likely unintended example: your "subversive emo nut" comment ages you, as well as outing your intolerant, closed-minded nature. What are you - some sort of Youth for Western Civilization campus fascist? BTW, not an emo fan. So, have you tweeted all your friends to let them know how you pwned me? Does we feels all growed up now? ;)

    Really, I don't want to get into playing The eDozens with you, because this site has thankfully been devoid of that kind of nonsense. Besides, I would bury you, and where's the fun in a completely one-sided contest! Wait, was that condescending? Why, yes, it was. :)

    Your kind of drivel is just indicative of the creeping digital Maoism I had hoped to counter with my post, while I knew damned well someone like you would try to put me in my place for daring to stir the pot. I have no regrets, and make no apology.

    I'm a happy guy. I have a wonderful girlfriend, fabulous kids, a great job, and a comfortable home; I can deal with the inevitable minor problems along the way, like the flooded basement I had last week when my sump pump failed. I watch very little television, and a one-hour weekly drama certainly does not define my life. I enjoy watching the show overall, or clearly I wouldn't be here posting regularly about it, but I am far from obsessed. I can live with or without it. I can also live with both criticism and praise, because that's life; can you?

    #455. Posted by: ealgumby at March 30, 2010 10:22 AM

    I like pie.

    #456. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 30, 2010 10:27 AM

    ransomjackson LOL!!!

    @445. Posted by: undauntid

    "And related to this "who cannot kill who rule" .... Is that why Locke needed for Sawyer to kill TMFT and then took credit for it himself? Because the rule prevented "Locke" from killing Anthony Cooper? And if so, is that precisely why Ben ordered "Locke" to do it, because he suspected that Locke was not Locke and put him to a test."

    I also want to know who set all these "rules" - and am sure we will get the answer to it. I don't think Ben suspected Locke was anyone but Locke until Richard pushed him down in front of the real Locke's body. Ben seemed awfully shocked at that. I also felt that was the end of Ben's reign as an insider on the island.

    #457. Posted by: glostover at March 30, 2010 10:51 AM

    I would like to scream now . . .

    but I'm really scared of the consequences.

    #458. Posted by: davidrh at March 30, 2010 11:08 AM

    Pie. glglgllglglglg.

    #459. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 11:08 AM

    ealgumby@446: Thanks for posting that ealgumby. I was hoping you would. Since you said last week that you were unhappy with the episode I hoped that you would manage in your post to put into words the things that also put me off. Yeah lazy, I know. This episode didn't sit right with me, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was, perhaps I couldn't even put my finger on what this episode was. I hoped for some clarification from your post, but alas, you didn't get to discussing the episode much beyond the Black Rock arrival scene either. It's hard to get a handle on this one, isn't it?

    -The Numbers: I for one do not consider the cave or lighthouse to be an explanation for the Numbers and if I ever implied I did I must have been temporarily been taken over by MIB or Jacob. The lighthouse might work as an `explanation' to some degree if it needs to. Apparently the numbers are the direction in which the mirror had to be pointed to keep an eye on specific people. Sort of a Big Brother navigation map. It doesn't explain why these specific six numbers keep popping up everywhere, but at least it could be half an explanation for why specific names are connected to specific numbers. I say "half an explanation" because we've only pushed the unknown back a bit further to "how did the lighthouse work?"

    -The Black Rock's arrival: You find it unreasonable that TPTB's declaration on the matter stopped discussion, but really what's there left to be discussed? People were wondering if both ships were supposed to be the same, TPTB said they were and since they are the ones who presumably oversee the writing there is no in-show mystery left to discuss. We can discuss why they screwed up so badly in putting it to the screen. We can discuss if we have to believe that "Ignacio" didn't look out of the window the whole day until the storm started. We can discuss a lot of extraneous things, but what mattered to most people was the question "was that the Black Rock in The Incident or can we look forward to seeing a second ship soon?" TPTB's declaration basically said "stop looking for clues in these scenes, the ships were meant to be the same." Not very satisfying, but this is what we have. What is there left to discuss about?

    -Making sense of Jacob: People here are continuously leaping to conclusions about Jacob, him being a deity or supernatural or what not. What do we really know about him? He apparently has lived for at least some 150 years before he died, and since then he apparently is able to manifest in Hurley's, although that could be Hurley's imagination as well. That's about all, really, isn't it? For all his big words about corks and candidates we haven't actually seen him do anything but die. And we don't really know much more about MIB either, apart from that he claims to be able to be Smokey and he can take on the appearance of dead people, at least Locke, probably others as well.

    I think what bugs me most of all this is that for the first five years the show did an admirable job to keep things reasonably.. uhmmm... reasonable. Sure, there were fantastic elements to it, but there always was this feeling that they could be explained somehow. It seems this season we went off into `everything goes' territory and efforts to connect the dots and string together clues are no longer paying off. I'm still enjoying the show, but I do hope it will regain some of its old glory before the end.

    #460. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 30, 2010 11:09 AM

    (BTW: I want ealgumby on my team.)

    #461. Posted by: davidrh at March 30, 2010 11:11 AM

    No fair! I always get chosen last.

    #462. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 11:51 AM

    Yikes! Who woulda thunk that the Ricardus episode would release such emotion?

    As I've indicated - I didn't think much of the episode. I felt it had some weak writing, the Black Rock crash was meh, and the chained Ricardus was way too stretched out. Most of my displeasure came after it ended, because I wanted to know more about Richard's life. I didn't think the episode was bad, but I also didn't feel the need to rewatch.

    I predicted there would be a split, but I did not anticipate how many people would actually be more like my sister and really really love this episode.

    I mentioned previously that on occasion, I check out fellow Torontonian
    Nikki Stafford's blog. I was shocked to read that not only did she like the episode, but that she ranked it as her favourite episode ever.

    http://tinyurl.com/yfptq8v

    She writes:

    "I just finished watching “Ab Aeterno,” the episode I’ve been waiting for since Richard Alpert was standing outside the hospital window looking at baby John Locke. The episode that promised us answers. The episode that would go right back to the beginning. I expected a lot from it.

    But I didn’t expect this. Guys, I’m writing this through tears. Tears that Lost just moved from the epic to the sublime. Tears of happiness at the answers we finally got. Tears of sadness from Isabella’s moving speech to Richard at the end (I sobbed like a baby through that entire scene). Tears of sheer wonder at Nestor Carbonell’s UNBELIEVABLE performance.

    THIS is the episode we’ve wanted from the beginning. THIS is the hour of television that just made almost six years of loyalty worth it. THIS is the stuff I just KNEW in my heart was coming. THIS is the episode that all of those naysayers will have to eat their words over. This is my new favourite Lost episode ever (oddly, structured unlike any other Lost episode before it with the exception of Meet Kevin Johnson, which also flashed back to Michael’s backstory and didn’t do a constant back and forth throughout the episode) and I will defend it against any critics to my dying day.

    I am still crying. I am SO HAPPY to have seen this. It was like watching a series finale... and MAN if the series finale can conjure up the wild emotions in me that this episode just did, then this really will be the greatest TV show of all time."

    And yet - I was indifferent. As I mentioned before, I think there is a difference between the sexes with regards to this episode.

    Anyhoots - I think I will re-watch tonight.

    And on that note, I present to you the saddest (unseen) moment of the the S6 premiere episode:

    http://twitpic.com/114p61

    Awwwwwwwwwww.....

    #463. Posted by: shikotee at March 30, 2010 11:57 AM

    Warning: Sentimental post ahead:

    #455. ealgumby: "wonderful girlfriend":

    Thank you sweetheart...& you know the feeling's entirely reciprocated! : ) : ) : )

    #464. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 30, 2010 12:01 PM

    awwwww.

    And they met here.

    Did the late lost blog map facilitate this romance?

    I feel like a matchmaker.

    #465. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 12:18 PM

    @463 shikotee:

    I think maybe the differences in the reactions to Ab Aeterno are between those who, like myself and ealgumby approach Lost more like a mystery novel, trying to follow clues and 'figure out' the mystery behind the events we see, and those who, apparently like Nikki Stafford, watch Lost more like a romance novel, for the emotionl ties between and developements of characters.

    Neither method of appreaciation is right or wrong, just different approaches to a story and leading to appreciation of different componenets of the story. I think the writers have done a reasonable job of balancing the two, and the remaining episodes will show us how satisfying they can make it to each mode of viewing.

    Nestor Carbonell's interviews after the most recent episode, and about having viewed the finale script, lead me to some cautious optimism in the rationalist side.

    #466. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 30, 2010 12:28 PM

    @464. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought

    Well - this sure explains a lot!

    In previous posts, where you name-dropped your other half, I was like - Man, are they totally getting it on? Turns out - you actually are! Context is everything. Congrats...

    #467. Posted by: shikotee at March 30, 2010 12:31 PM

    @461/davidrh - You sure about that? I can be mighty unpleasant, you know! ;)

    @463/shikotee - re Nikki Stafford's blog: "Nestor Carbonell’s UNBELIEVABLE performance."

    And she unintentionally stumbled upon the perfect adjective! ;)

    @464/Alaïs_Longthought - I'm blushing! :):)

    @465/Cecil - "Did the late lost blog map facilitate this romance?"

    Many thanks to becre8ve for the South Park avatar exercise, which led to our direct communication. Your Lost blog map DID facilitate things as well though ... thank you! :)

    #468. Posted by: ealgumby at March 30, 2010 12:36 PM

    I am getting in the mood to predict denouements and I still have some 50 new posts to read! I recall JJ Abrams finish to Alias where lots of characters were dead, a few reached a final (and I thought kinda neat) closure and the really, really bad guy ended up with immortality but pinned beneath a boulder in a deep, dark, hole that no one would ever discover. How satisfying is that! So I am thinking that in the end, Widmore will have his wish--eternal life on his beloved island, existing as a puff of smoke prone to uncontrollable rage and unable to lay a finger on the new Jacob, the redeemed Ben! As for everyone else, they will live happily ever after in sidewaysland, having played their role in bringing events to their ultimate conclusion. And, by the way, Miles was right! It was setting off the bomb that made it all happen.

    #469. Posted by: August Paul at March 30, 2010 12:41 PM

    @469

    re: JJ Abrams

    Everyone makes the Alias references and whatnot. But seriously - how much has this guy been involved with this show since the pilot? My impression is - very little. He was the name brought in for the jump start.

    As I've mentioned before - I hope TPTB release a tell all book after the show finishes that explains/breaks down who was involved with what, where they were going with certain things, and why they didn't.

    With the finale - is JJ really involved? He still is a producer - but I wonder how much input he actually provides. I'm sure they have gone over things with him, but how much say does he have?

    #470. Posted by: shikotee at March 30, 2010 12:53 PM

    Anybody else ready for another week of unbelievable levels of dissappointment?!?! Cause I sure am.....

    #471. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at March 30, 2010 12:54 PM

    A really belated happy birthday Cecil from someone who is a very unclever 73x1

    #472. Posted by: August Paul at March 30, 2010 1:04 PM

    haiku cont.

    Episode => enhanced,

    Ericgumby => my new FLocke,

    Ab Aeterno => solved!

    #473. Posted by: DocH at March 30, 2010 1:41 PM

    Speaking of "enhanced" episodes, there won't be one tonight, acccording to my TV schedule. IS ABC done with those?

    And for some reason they never put out an "Untangled" version of "Recon" which I was looking forward to, even though they're since releases Ab Aeterno Untangled.

    #474. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 1:49 PM

    @471. Red...Neck...Man: Getting there, and grateful to ealgumby for putting it out there. My feeling is, if the next 8 episodes make the whole show worthwhile, then they still will have squandered the previous 8 episodes and my time with it.

    #475. Posted by: LockeBox at March 30, 2010 1:51 PM

    #474. Cecil queried -- "enhanced" episodes, there won't be one tonight, acccording to my TV schedule. IS ABC done with those?
    -------
    They are gone. DWTS results show is now in-place. That's a better lead-in anyway. Steals some of the ratings from A-Idol and gives it to LOST.

    Wanna bet we see the last group of enhanced eps toward the end of the summer and/or just before they release Season 6 DVD Box Set? re-peaking interest and sales.

    #476. Posted by: DocH at March 30, 2010 2:26 PM


    "....from someone who is a very unclever 73x1 - #472. Posted by: August Paul

    OH NO! Cecil and I have been out-grandpappied!

    #477. Posted by: davidrh at March 30, 2010 2:32 PM

    @477 davidrh wailed:

    >>"....from someone who is a very unclever 73x1 - #472. Posted by: August Paul

    >OH NO! Cecil and I have been out-grandpappied!

    Poor guy has a prime birthday. No way to get clever.

    #478. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 3:01 PM

    @ 478. Cecil: "Poor guy has a prime birthday. No way to get clever."

    8+23+42?

    #479. Posted by: LockeBox at March 30, 2010 3:09 PM

    For those who will miss the "enhanced" episode of "Ab Aeterno:"

    This is Richard.

    He was an adviser to the Others.

    It looks like he wears eyeliner, or is Egyptian.

    In reality, he is a Canary Islander.

    This is Richard's wife. She is sick.

    This is not Kate's horse as seen on the island.

    People get wet when it rains.

    This is the doctor's butler. People in the 1860s really lived well.

    This is 19th century medicine without universal health care insurance.

    Oops . . . that's gotta hurt.

    This is Richard's house. He has returned with the medicine. Oops . . . too late.

    This is a prison on the Canary Islands where Richard has been placed for killing a doctor.

    This is the prison priest. He will hear Richard's confession before he is hanged. Oops . . . no time for penance so Richard will suffer an eternal burn.

    There is no frozen donkey wheel in the prison so Richard can go back in time to pray for his own soul.

    This man is from a slave ship. He is looking for an English speaking slave to go to the new world. Craigslist had not yet been invented.

    This pouch contains money. It is the price Richard will pay for escaping immediate death for eternal damnation as Jacob's parrot.

    This is the hold of the Black Rock. In cruise line terms, this is steerage class.

    Richard's life is improving, he has made some new friends.

    This is a storm. Someone forgot to watch the Weather Channel.

    This is the Black Rock surfing atop a 100 foot tsunami wave toward the island's Tawaret statue, Jacob's home.

    This is the hold after the storm. The crew is upset that their captain has died and the bingo cards got wet.

    The Black Rock is greeted by the island welcoming committee, which viewers have come to know as the Smoke Monster. No reservations means trouble!

    This is Richard in chains. He is slowly starving to death. He is dehydrated. He needs a hair cut.

    This is the man in black, the man about town. He offers Richard something he never had in the Canary Islands: a job.

    This is the broken statue. This confrontation is with Jacob, who is upset that he did not get hurricane storm damage coverage for his house.

    Jacob offers Richard a free bath at Club Jacob.

    Here is Richard 140 years later. He is telling his fellow islanders ghost stories around the camp fire because, well, he is a ghost, right?

    This is Hurley. He is the luckiest man on the island. He won the lottery and is a multimillionaire. He left the luxury comforts of home and his family to go back to subsistence living on the island. Hurley is not too bright.

    This is Hurley speaking to no one. This represents how loyal viewers feel during the past five seasons.

    This is a tree. It has a trunk and green leaves.

    This is Richard digging like a ground hog. This is his wife's necklace. There are no pawn shops on the island.

    This is Hurley. He can talk to dead people. He is telling Richard what he already knows: his wife is still dead.

    Hurley tells Richard he must not let Locke leave the island.

    This is not John Locke. This is the man in black looking like Locke. This Locke is the smoke monster. The man in black is the smoke monster. The smoke monster who once tried to kill Locke. Locke was killed by Ben. Ben once summoned the smoke monster to kill Widmore's men. Ben killed Jacob for Locke, the smoke monster. Ilana was going to kill Ben for killing Jacob but Ben's bug eyes hypnotized her. You can't read this anymore because ABC is showing previews.

    #480. Posted by: welh at March 30, 2010 3:16 PM

    @ #480. Posted by: welh

    Oh, Thank you! Priceless.

    #481. Posted by: LostinVT at March 30, 2010 3:23 PM

    @479 LockeBox Now that is clever. I feel special. Three of the special numbers including the answer to life, the universe and everything. I am ready for tonight's episode after I pick up a couple of my grandchildren from the airport.

    #482. Posted by: August Paul at March 30, 2010 3:46 PM

    Holy Flocke! There sure have been some long posts since yesterday! Off to read!

    #483. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 30, 2010 4:03 PM

    @Welh, 480:

    HAR!

    #484. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 4:14 PM

    @474, Cecil: I'm pretty sure I watched the Untangled episode for Recon. Hmmm... it's not up on the ABC website. O, here it is on YouTube though: http://tinyurl.com/yadxhcz

    @480, welh: Thank you. :)

    #485. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 30, 2010 4:27 PM

    @485 Plain Simple:

    Thanks, it was great, as are they all.

    #486. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 5:34 PM

    #467. shikotee: ealgumby & me:

    Thank you! I have been blessed beyond all measure...even if LOST's last season tanks I'll still be grateful, because of what I've gained. I am soooooo very lucky... : )

    And BTW, as I've said before, there are a whole bunch of you here on the blog that I've thoroughly enjoyed spending time w/over the years. I'm not looking forward to not spending time w/you after May... : (

    #480: welh: Okay, that was a total LOL, except that I'm sitting in the middle of a class right now... ; ) You should write the LOST version for children...

    #487. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 30, 2010 5:43 PM

    @480-welh,
    we dont get & never have had these enhanced episodes in my country,
    your comedic version of the enhanced episode had me laughing so much,
    i wont see the new episode until tomorrow night so im glad to be cheered up with your post.

    #488. Posted by: san at March 30, 2010 5:45 PM

    @Ealgumby rant:

    I somewhat feel your pain, but thankfully I'm not invested as much in this show as you seem to be. It's the kind of rant that can only be written about something or someone you deeply love.

    About the numbers, they haven't really been explained, but who says that won't happen? There's still plenty of time left. Maybe it won't be directly explained, but bigger answers to bigger questions will cover the numbers as well. Same goes for the Black Rock in the storm. We've seen other examples of vehicles getting caught up in weather changes (even day to night), while approaching the Island. We could still get an explanation for that.

    I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you're jumping the shark a bit. I somewhat expect to post similar rants after the show is over (sort of like Annie Wilkes: he didn't get out of the cockadoody car!!), because I just don't see TPTB tying everything together in a satisfying way, but untill the final credits roll, I can't be sure about that. I'm not saying that you shouldn't express your opinion, just giving you mine.

    I really don't agree with you about the quality of the episode. It didn't even reveal any huge secrets, but it did show us a lot of stuff we've been wondering about, and I myself was really satisfied by that. I thought most of the actors did a fine job, especially the guys who play Richard, Jacob and MIB. Richard's love story was a bit corny, I guess, but I think that's partly because all of it was presented in one episode, so we weren't really invested in that background story. I still thought it was servicable to the overall plot, though. I really liked the scenes in the wreck, it felt like something out of a Stephen King story. Again, not hugely original, but cool nonetheless, especially the stuff about MIB prepping Richard to kill Jacob. The Ghost scene with Hugo was okay, but I didn't choke up or anything. Again, we only just met Richard's wife, so there wasn't much of a connection to her, for me. But overall, I thoroughly enjoyed the epi, also on second and third viewing. Earlier, I posted that it has entered my top 5 favorite episodes. I might have a bit too enthousiastic there. When I eventually rewatch everything, it might drop a few places on the list. Still, I just can't imagine anyone calling this the worst epi ever.

    Btw, I'm Dutch, so excuse me if my English is not perfect.

    #489. Posted by: Mischa at March 30, 2010 5:48 PM

    @487 Alaïs_Longthought said "you should write the LOST version for children..."

    "Jacob, share your human souls with me!"
    "No!"
    "You know the rules"
    "Go away!"
    "Mom! Jacob won't share with me!!!"

    #490. Posted by: welh at March 30, 2010 5:56 PM

    @489-mischa,
    i know how you feel,
    im scottish,so my english isn't too good either!

    #491. Posted by: san at March 30, 2010 6:04 PM

    Woop-woop....

    In 45 minutes, the episode goes live here in Canuckerville!

    And this fine Easter week-end, way out in the UK, we finally have the return of Doctor Who, under the helm of a new production staff lead by Steven Moffat. Will get to check out the new Doctor - played by Matt Smith, and the newly designed TARDIS interior.

    Good times people.... Good times!!!

    #492. Posted by: shikotee at March 30, 2010 6:17 PM

    I love that such a wide range of people of every age are so passionate about Lost. My 9 year olds are starting to get into the show and right here on the blog we have everyone from ilovebenjaminlinusxxx to August Paul.

    And while I may not share ealgumby's opinion (I personally liked this episode though I wish they'd shown more of Richard on the island over the years) it's great that we can all share our opinions here and appreciate each other's comments. I hope we all find something we can still share together when this is gone.

    And this episode must have been pretty decent. It inspired anough fodder for the most comments of any episode yet this season--even more than "What KAte Does"!
    LEts get this puppy up to 500 before gametime huh?

    #493. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 30, 2010 6:34 PM

    Shikotee, I'm pretty sure we still have to wait over 2 hours in the real Canucks city! But what do I know, it's not like I'm Canadian, eh. ;)

    #494. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 30, 2010 7:45 PM

    80 minutes til showtime here in oklafreakinghoma.

    #495. Posted by: undauntid at March 30, 2010 7:51 PM

    @487/Alaïs_Longthought – “I am soooooo very lucky”

    Now, you know I’m the lucky one … don’t make me seacrest you! ;) I also know you’re on the road right now, enduring the long drive home from class to see me tonight … be safe, my love, and I will rejoice upon your arrival.

    @489/Mischa – “It's the kind of rant that can only be written about something or someone you deeply love.”

    Perhaps if you knew me you’d think otherwise; I’ve been told I am a very intense, passionate person. Not saying I don’t like the show … I do, it’s good. Love though … now that’s something different altogether; ephemeral in conception, eternal in resolution. I dearly love Alaïs_Longthought, and always will.

    Those of you who truly are long-time readers here, might know that I suffered grievous, unspeakable pain in my personal life a few years ago, of the type no one should ever have to bear. This blog offered rather anonymous solace in my time of need, and for that I will always be grateful. I asked of it nothing, and it gave volumes freely in return.

    What I never expected was to find my future life partner, through such a trivial thing as commenting about a TV show! She brought me out of my depths of darkness, and my love for her now is surely forever … thank you, so much my darling … you saved me.

    #496. Posted by: ealgumby at March 30, 2010 8:03 PM

    @489-mischa,
    i know how you feel,
    im scottish,so my english isn't too good either!

    #491. Posted by: san at March 30, 2010 6:04 PM

    I'm Southern, so my English is probably worse than both of you-- but wait'll ya hear me play the banjo...

    #497. Posted by: sandivon at March 30, 2010 8:28 PM

    That was much truer than that whole Hurley-Isabelle-Richard scene last week, ealgumby!

    #498. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 30, 2010 8:43 PM

    @488 san mentioned:

    >@480-welh,
    >we dont get & never have had these enhanced episodes in my country,
    your comedic version of the enhanced episode had me laughing so much,

    They're putting them on the ABC website now, if you have a way of cracking into them.

    #499. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 8:47 PM

    I went from laughing at #490 (thank you, welh, & so true!) to tearing up at #496 (thank you, sweetheart) to smiling at #498 (thank you, Plain Simple)... I think mac deserves some recognition for providing such a great place to hang out! : )

    #500. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 30, 2010 8:48 PM

    @489 Mischa saud:

    >Btw, I'm Dutch, so excuse me if my English is not perfect.

    &@#491 san said:

    >im scottish,so my english isn't too good either!

    Yore English are more better'n our'n.

    #501. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 8:52 PM

    tick, tock, tick, tock!

    Time to go warm up the telly. See ya'll
    afters.

    #502. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 8:56 PM

    P.S. We broke 500.

    #503. Posted by: Cecil at March 30, 2010 8:57 PM

    Yay--knew we could do it! :)

    #504. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 30, 2010 9:01 PM

    By chance does any one know why they are not giving us the enhanced version of Richard's show? This sucks. Stupid dancing with the stars.

    #505. Posted by: Christina at March 30, 2010 11:46 PM

    Welh, that was brilliant! Thanks for the morning laugh!

    Ealgumby, I didn't have time to reply last night, so apologies for dragging this up again. You sound like a great guy. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading (most) of your posts over the years. I also think very highly of Alais_Longthought, so if she says your good people, I trust her.

    But you gotta admit your post was baiting a response like Seacrests's. You might not have individually insulted anyone, but you were somewhat insulting to the group of people you say are drinking the kool-aid.

    You make some excellent points, but I disagree (or have a different view) in a number of instances. Firstly on it being the same ship as seen in the Incident. I am willing to take TPTB at their word not because I am an easily duped simpleton, but because we have seen sudden changes of weather on the Island, and especially when approaching or leaving the vicinity of the Island. But more so, because I don't care if it's the same ship or not. That is such a minor plot point to me that it's not something I chose to spend a lot of time analyzing.

    As for your question about why Jacob brought the ship to the Island if he knew the MiB was going to kill everyone (except Richard, whom he would then send to kill Jacob), I think you're making a lot of assumptions. What do we know as fact? We don't know if Jacob can see the future (or if he can, how clear that vision is), so I'm not convinced he knew that would happen. It seems to me that Richard was the first attempt the MiB ever made to kill Jacob, so perhaps he was taken off guard by this new strategy. Perhaps killing the ships officers was also a new strategy for the MiB. I got the impression from the Incident that past visitors to the Island had killed each other, not that Jacob was bringing people to the Island for the MiB to slaughter wholesale. Finally, I'd like to point out that the MiB did NOT kill everyone on the ship. Whitfield killed the other slaves, and perhaps the MiB is well within his rights to kill the murderous slave trading officers. Now you might counter that if Jacob wanted the slaves to come to the Island, why didn't he protect them from the Officers? I would say Jacob in 1867 seems young and idealistic, he really believes that if he interferes with the choices people are making those choices are then meaningless. He seems to have mellowed by 2004 and willing to give advice. This change might be the direct result of realizing that the MiB was not playing by the rules (looking for his loophole).

    I agree with you that the writing on this show is not always as good as it should be. Eggtown is one of the least sensicle things I have ever watched. But for every Eggtown, we also get a The Constant. On the whole I still think Lost is one of the best shows ever created, and I look forward to each Tuesday night. I also disagree with you about Nestor's acting in this episode, I think it was his best work.

    #506. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 31, 2010 8:47 AM

    I skipped down here to respond to the question of why the bottle was smashed. I'm sure it's been answered a half dozen times already. Anyways, The bottle was broken because come what may the island's bad guy/malevolent spirit is determined that he will be free and will leave the island sooner or later

    #507. Posted by: LostInThought at April 8, 2010 12:12 PM