Key Points from "Happily Ever After"

MIF!

Awesome episode! Can't wait to read your review, Mac! Keep up the good work

Desmond is first!

And if this isn't so, then my timing is "Constant".

@mac,

Much though it be desired, I doubt if we'll see desmond looking up Ethan, since ethan wasn't on 815.

ANTP in Widmore's office...a scale with black on one side and white on the other! Love this show!!

wow !!!

I'm confused!?

Great review Mac!

Well.... this episode was enjoyable!

Finally - things are starting to make sense with the flash sideways world.

I'm intrigued that Desmond has a realization about his role on the island. I wanna know what it is!

So - the wild card can take on a "massive burst of energy".

I get the feeling that it will be Desmond who will withstand the radioactive powers of the island, and help trigger the sinking.

I totally need to re-watch!

I believe this episode has clearly shown that the so-called Alt-timeline is, indeed, the end result of the efforts on the island. Eloise Hawking solidified the notion when she explained to Desmond that he received what he always wanted, to impress Mr. Widmore. I think the rest of the show will portray the events on the island as being influential in the rendering of their final chapter within the Alt-timeline. For example, Desmond is able to literally see, in a sort of deja-vu moment, his past on the island and then begins the process of completing his healing/life completeness by not only impressing Widmore but also courting his true love, Penny. It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out.

Thanks so much once again Mac

As I have been following this blog now for years and have listened to you all contemplate the show's "point", (and with much amusement I must add,) good and evil... making choices... and so on, I still beg the question "WHAT" is the flippin' Island????

We've all postulated on every character's purpose, how thing might be resolved... and so on, but "WHAT" is the Island???

Everybody... "WHAT IS THE ISLAND?!?"

Hey, that's Oscar winner George Minkowski! (Fisher Stevens was a producer on this year's Oscar-winning documentary feature "The Cove") Long time lurker, rare poster Mac, but that episode was a dooooozy so I had to contribute. I put that in my top five of the series (and two others include Our Favorite Scot. Coincidence? I think not). I definitely need to watch that again - so so so dense. I got chills when they cut to the stadium where Penny was running. Also I have a bad feeling we're going to have a tearful goodbye to Hurley next week - just a feeling, no spoilers acquired. But then I thought Des was gonna bite it this week with his return after a long absence (a la Faraday in "The Variable.") That's my rambling...GRAA Mac!

#11

you bloodly well made me snort my beer...(your post name)

that's 40 yr old Scotch donchya know

GRAA, Mac...& what a fantastic episode! *This* is the sort of episode that ealgumby & I have been waiting for.

Just a few random thoughts at this time of the night...

If I remember correctly, the characters who have leakage issues (I can just hear someone coming up w/an idea for Island Depends) all seem to be people who were exposed to EM while on the island, & the higher the dose, the more leakage. Des took the brunt of the Swan's implosion & thus seems to have the most vivid "leaks." (Yes, we really do need another word here.) Charlie was very close to the Swan & so also was exposed. And Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Hurley, Sayid, & Jin were all in the vicinity when Jughead went off. So I'm not sure if it's impending death that causes "leaks," or EM exposure.

Re Minkowski: OH! So *that's* why George looked familiar. W/his shades on he looked like Ringo Starr. ; )

Re Penny's mom: According to Lostpedia, no one knows who Penny's mom is. ealgumby & I were speculating about all of the last names used by the Widmore/Hawking clan...although we don't know if Alt-Eloise goes by Mrs. Widmore or Ms. Hawking. Alt-Eloise is, however, a complete & total bitch in any timeline.

Re Daniel being a musician: He's obviously channeling Stevie Ray Vaughn. And why couldn't the rest of the members of DriveShaft perform at the charity ball w/o Charlie?

Back to last names...the first thing that popped into my head when Penny's last name was revealed as Milton was John Milton's "Paradise Lost."

Des did seem to be...transformed...after his EM experience—definitely creepy. Adding Sayid to the mix ups the weirdness factor exponentially. Is Sayid acting on his own in rescuing Des? Or is this on orders from FLocke? I forget if we're supposed to know this already...

Is Alt-Charlie going to end up in the Santa Rosa Institute?

Random name-related factoid: Widmore's operative called the caged bunny (ANTB? ; > ) Angstrom. Not only is the angstrom a unit of measurement used to measure the wavelengths of EM radiation, it's a nod to John Updike's "Rabbit" novels, in which the protagonist, who wishes to escape from the constraints of his everyday life, is named Harry "Rabbit" Angstrom.

Random question: I wonder if Alt-Des carries around a copy of Our Mutual Friend.

yeah, I have to agree, the "leakage" thing has got to go... reminds me of a really bad "mother nature" commercial.

What do they call mix if timelines in "Fringe"?

My thoughts on tonight's ep (since sleep seems to be eluding me):

TGFMR! (thank god for mac's reviews...cause this episode was a doozy!)

Eloise is freaky-deaky...just sayin'

Even through his zombieness, Sayid is still a badass. Did you see him snap that guy's neck?

i am intrigued by this notion of sacrifice. Remember Dogan touched on this in regards to his son.

I wasn't able to catch all of the show since I was at my beau's this week and he lives in CO and I missed it by 15 mins or so. I'm going to re-watch it as soon as it's online, but I was able to catch up pretty quickly.

I was so happy to finally see Desmond and Penny, and Charlie again. =D Yay.

I don't have much to say other than I love Desmond-centric episodes and I enjoy how he's still able to time travel and that Eloise still seems to hold the key to crossing over into the other dimensions/time lines.

GRAA Mac! When this is all over, please compile a book of all your reviews & all our comments for all 6 seasons, I'll gladly be a paying customer.

I loved this epi. I kept moving around in my chair watching and then moving again. It really was a great episode, and having Des back was excellent. I can't wait to see what happens with Hurley. And I hope he makes it through to the end.

GRAA Mac - thanks oh so much.

I've got to watch again and then keep reading to see what everyone has to say.

GRAA Mac and great episode! So now all the leaking/mirror symbolism is making sense!

Most disappointing line:

Zombie Sayid to Zoe: "Run."

I wish it had been "Hasta la vista, baby!" followed by an appropriate action.

I look forward to everyone's comments as well!

GRAA Mac and great episode! So now all the leaking/mirror symbolism is making sense!

Most disappointing line:

Zombie Sayid to Zoe: "Run."

I wish it had been "Hasta la vista, baby!" followed by an appropriate action.

I look forward to everyone's comments as well!

Argh forgive the double post :-(

WOW!! GRAA Mac, one of the greatest episodes ever!! loved review especially the whole leakage joke you had going on. hahaha. I don't post alot mostly just read but a long time viewer and this season I have felt the need to try to post at least once.. even if its really late lol.

As Mac mentioned everybody has stared blankly but Des was the only one that actually 'leaked' from the original timeline into the alternate while staring at his reflection on the arrivals/departures monitor.

This is the third time (i think) he has traveled in some form through time (except maybe the flashes he gets in order to save charlie..) but this time he didn't know anything from the original timeline. Just thought it was weird how he traveled from the island to this alternate reality and wasn't freaking out right away like he did when he was traveling back and forth during helicopter ride. This seemed more like the time when he turned the key... right?

Thought it was interesting how Charlie proposed to Des if he wanted to see something or get out of car just like the red pill/blue pill conversation in the Matrix.

so getting confused with the whole alternate timeline mixing with the other one. So is it Desmond's purpose in the alternate timeline just to try to get everybody to remember or is there more going on afterwards than just that? cant wait to see what his purpose on island is though...

I think this was the best episode this season. Loved it. So did I get this right...it's not an alt universe or what would have happened if the plain landed safely BUT what happened because of the bomb - that it set things back but all MESSED UP.
For the ladies...Des sure does clean up well! yum
Thanks Mac.

For Mac
Do you think when this is all done they will put together a special- showing us what all the clues where? what we missed? something like that. I think 7 million people would LOVE that.

Best episode this season by far.

Thanks for the review Mac - GRAA.

Does anybody else agree that Des going off with Sayid was part of the plan? Seemed like he was half expecting it.

So, Des is underwater in his shirt and suit, then the same suit later dries, wrinkle free, and he goes to visit Eloise then has coffee with Penny. That suit is definitely not from JC Penny's (no pun with the name) because my suits from there can't do that.

Sorry to be the lone dissenter, but I thought this was the weakest episode of the season. The only reason that they made Daniel a musician instead of a physicist was to have a plot line that included Charlie. The whole "I showed it to a friend" scene regarding quantum physics was just lame.

Daniel, ethan, Ben and charlotte weren’t on the plane, how will Des find the people who are not on the plane's manifest? Also, there were innocent people on the plane - people who have nothing to do with the island, what is he going to do with their names and how will he identify who is "special" and who isn't?

So, do you have to love someone from the Island in order to remember your life on the island. Daniel's memory was triggered by Charlotte. Charlie saw Claire during his near death experience. Desmond saw Penny during his experience underwater.

Will the same thing happen to jack and Kate, Sawyer and Juliette, Ben and Annie, Hugo and Libby, Sun and Jin, Sayid and Shannon (or maybe Boone and Shannon), Poor Locke doesn't have an island love life.

@ #28:

Actually, there's a very good reason for Alt-Daniel to be a musician. In an previous episode, the young Real Daniel enjoyed playing piano but was discouraged by Real Eloise, who somehow KNEW that Daniel HAD to be a physicist (not a musician) in order for the proper sequence of events to occur. In the Alt Universe, the opposite happens, whether it's by chance... or whether it's because Alt Eloise somehow KNOWS that Daniel HAS to be a musician (and not a physicist) in order to make sure the two timelines don't intersect (e.g. so Daniel doesn't go running around for atomic bombs to detonate).

I agree though, the whole "I showed a friend" thing was a bit weak, but when you only have 6 episodes left, I guess they have to cut corners a bit here and there to cram all this stuff in =^)

Kitty #28.

FYI, your not looking at the links. Remember Daniel wanted to learn music but his mother never let him. He had to focus on science. So doesnt it make sense that he would be a musician??? Its clever plot linking, not convienient.

Great storytelling, hugely fun episode last night.

Eloise reminded me of no one more than the White Queen in Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass," who lives backwards in time...and she was looking a lot like her too.

And a silly question answered: Big EM device on Hydra Is., home of the polar bear cages. Polar bears in the desert... Jacob didn't like technology so Others traveled by FDW?

Instead of leakage how about seepage? Nah, that's gross, too ;-) Flashback, maybe?

After Eloise's talk with Des, the phrase that came to mind for me was, "Be careful what you wish for because it might come true." Our Losties are learning a great cosmic lesson. Sometimes your greatest heart's desire is what you thought it would be. It may just be right in front of you.

UGH! That should read...ISN'T what you thought...

I tend to think that Alt Des should listen to eloise and leave things alone. She has been right about everything else so far. It worries me that Des is going after Penny and the 815ers even after Eloise's warning that "he's not ready".

Wow! Really enjoyed last night's episode and Mac's review.

I'm guessing Eloise is the only (or one of the few) person who knows exactly what's going on. She would still remember her adult son (who wasn't even born yet) showing up at her camp and shooting him, the plot to detonate the bomb to change the future, and she should still have Farraday's notebook. And that's all without relying on the special powers she appeared to have in Flashes Before Your Eyes. I liked that in the new timeline she encouraged Daniel's true passion to be a musician, it seems she is using the second opportunity to support him instead of manipulating him (and leading him to his death...).

I liked how Jack could accept that he and Desmond were on the sane flight, but was incredulous that there might be a third person from that flight in the hospital.

And yes, I did notice the painting! And that's 60 year old Scotch! ;)

What a "WOW" episode! I must admit that when Dez walked into the office and hugged Widmore I laughed out loud. And then I wondered for the rest of the show what the heck Mac was going to do all night trying to tie this one together!

Charlie and Penny are back . . . soooo, "V" took a big break also. There's a chance we'll all see JULIET again!!!!!!
that would be way cool.

Sure, there were some silly dialogue . . Daniel's "I drew a graph on quantum physics without knowing it" was sort of "high school" story-writing, but you're right, we've only got so much time left.
I now have high hopes for a quality ending here.

Looking forward to the day of comments.

What if the whole alt timeline is the *wrong* result of detonating that bomb? (JWTB) Des wasn't there to act as the "failsafe key" for the detonation. Widmore and Ellie worked together to bring him back to the island to help in the "course correction" of things. I'm pretty sure that Ellie was at the hospital right after Des was shot so she could have helped facilitate his HotScot-napping.

What was Ellie's response to Des refusing to return with the rest? Did she tell him he needed to go back too? Or was he really just at the Lamp Post to deliver Daniel's message?

Maybe Ellie is the crazy Mama that keeps rebooting things until it all ends right a la Groundhog Day. To quote Jacob, "The rest is just progress." Or it's all just damn good TV.

Can't wait to read everyone's comments!

It’s about TIME …

So how is Des going to get them all on a flight back to Sydney! :) Speaking of flights …

@37/FenwayBen – “he and Desmond were on the sane flight” … so is the insane flight yet to come? ;)

Mac - “Maybe the alternate timeline isn't an either-or proposition, but rather a sort of wave that drifts over characters at different stages in their lives and gradually creates alternate realities.” … or perhaps interference patterns?

GRAA Mac! Not sure if it really matters at this point, but did Widmore really tell Des that he was shot 3 days ago, meaning all the on island stuff this season has happened in just 3 days of real time?

Anyone else feeling a "Mirror of Erised" kinda thing with the mirror/reflection theme going this season?

FYI: the Mirror of Erised is a magical device from the Harry Potter books. When you look in it, you see your heart's desire. Based on last night's ep, Des's is Acceptance. Maybe Kate's is Freedom. Sayid's is Peace. Sawyer's is Revenge. Jack's is Love. Thoughts?

Sometimes when I watch this show I ask myself, "Self? (Cuz that's what I call me) Now how do you s'pose Mac's gonna write up that little bit?" And then he just up and does it.

I was wondering how Des and Chah-lee were gonna flash-sturbate each other. Then as soon as I saw the car headed for the drink, I wondered if/how the "Not Penny's boat" could possibly come back as the scene was so reminiscent of the Looking Glass ep. Not disappointed I. Liked all them fishermen not coming to help. So L.A.

I do kinda wonder if Sayid was sent by Flocke to capture Des (did Flocke know Des was The Package?), or if Sayid's nocturnal mission was to grab Jin and he just found Des first. Any naked EM-hopping Scottish candidate in a storm, I s'pose.

With Charlie racing around in a hospital gown I was fearful we were headed for a reveal of a rather unpleasant sort.

Great review of a really riveting episode, easily the best of the season.

Very good episode (though Desmond eps usually are).
The one line that really stuck out for me was Ellie's mentioning the word "violation." Violation of what...the "rules" that have been brought up for the past 5 seasons? Nobody seems to be in the know more than Ellie, in both timelines...if there's a character who's story I'd like to see in greater depth it would definitely be her.

@42 GatorGal...The Mirror of Erised

Yep, I agree. That's similar to what I stated in #34/35. You just fleshed it out more for me. Thanks! Locke's is Helen's Love. Hurley's is Luck.

Crossovers?

Weird that two of the people, Charlie and Daniel, in alt-verse who think their reality is wrong and want to encourage Des to help put things right will end up dead if successful.

What part of the body was Des shot in three days ago? anyone remember? Seems like a pretty speedy recovery...

When I saw the EM generator and the bunny I thought "Bunnylover isn't gonna like this." But then a human died in the accident and the bunny was spared, so I'm figuring she must be quite relieved! :)

Desmond’s consciousness is time-traveling between IslandDez (circa 2007) and LADez (circa 2004) and will continue to do so. The consciousness traveling will only end if IslandDez is somehow reunited with Penny (his constant), or if he starts nose-bleeding and dies. Desmond is the variable, because IslandDez can access “memories” of what’s happening to LADez, even though the two timelines are not linear, they’re ALTERNATES. So, IslandDez is the only person on the island who can see the alternate reality and know that setting off Jughead was a success! AND LADez is the only one who can make the alternate timeline a success by looking up the other Losties and triggering their memories (apparently via LOVE, a constant and a 4-letter word), so they can use the wisdom gained on the island to change their lives.

I have no idea if that makes sense, but I had to get it out.

And LADez is hot. Nom nom nom. The End.

Daniel might be wrong in thinking he already set off a bomb. From the hints last night and Widmore's interest in the EM pockets last week, it seems like the AltVerse is the result of exploding the island in 2007 as a last-ditch effort to keep Smokey from escaping. And Desmond was planted by Widmore in the AltVerse to be able to reboot it once Smokey was destroyed. But is rebooting A Good Thing?

??? Exploding the island in 2007?

@49/Clementine - "apparently via LOVE, a constant and a 4-letter word"

We've previously seen Des have flashes between alternate times ... TIME was the 4-letter variable, and Penny, his LOVE, was his constant.

Now we're seeing Des have flashes between alternate realities ... so is TIME still the variable, or the constant? Is LOVE now the variable, as he's not with Penny in the sideways reality?

At any rate, I do expect Des, with George's help perhaps, to arrange for all the 815ers to end up back on a plane headed someplace (Sydney? Guam? other?) ... probably to wind up on the island. This will set up the great convergence of the divergent and/or interfered realities ... just my current guess.

"A branch without a merge is pointless."

Why isn't George Minkowski flashing? He was the only other one besides Desmond who this happened to on island time.

Also, did anyone else think that Charlie was acting more like his new character on Flash Forward than as the dopey Charlie we know and love? Maybe in the alt timeline, he becomes a physicist and the series ends in such a way that the spinoff show is Flash Forward. Charlie changes his name and becomes a physicist, exploring the time jumping deeper. Not sure how Penny's character would fit in there though.

U've never posted before, but have been enjoying your comments for a couple of years (I wish I had found you sooner). Without this forum I would have been more confused than I already am. :-)

@53 bemh
YES! Charlie was definitely more like his character on FlashForward than Charlie. That bugged me.

All in all, I really, really liked this episode. My jaw was on the floor for most, if not all, of the show. I have always loved that about Lost.

@ #47:
"Locke's is Helen's Love. Hurley's is Luck."
Actually, Hurley's is Libby -- I think he's at her grave in the next epi.

Long time reader, first time poster.

I am wondering if there is a connection between Desmond ‘switching directions’ by going with Sayid. After Des said he would follow Sayid, THEN we see Desmond waking up and inviting Penny for coffee and asking about the 815 manifest. What if the decisions that Desmond makes now on the island (i.e., going with Sayid instead of Widmore) is effecting how the alternate reality progresses. If Desmond didn’t go with Sayid, would that ending scene with asking Penny for coffee/asking for the 815 manifest still happen? When Desmond regained consciousness after the EM experience at Widmore’s hands, he had experienced not being with Penny and being admired by Widmore – Desmond knew he had to change things on the island to go back to the original being married to Penny and his son Charlie. What is the impact now that he is joining up with Sayid instead of staying with Widmore?

Another instance of “whatever happens happens” from Hawking.

I feel almost prescient in having raised the issue of Mrs. Hawking in the comments on Ab Aeterno and clearly it was still bothering me when we were commenting on “The Package.”
GRAA Mac—I needed this just to get all the stuff settled in my head. Clearly, I need another viewing of this episode. I did not think altverse was just a diversion to examine peoples choices and the effects of their circumstances though the show certainly emphasizes that. But altverse solely for that purpose would be a waste of valuable airtime as we come to the end. Desmond’s time traveling abilities are clearly not restricted just to time, but to parallel universes created out of cosmic singularities created by the islands special properties, aided and abetted by the occasional explosion of a nuclear device. And we saw that that leakage (I actually don’t mind that phrase at all) between times did have a profound influence on Desmond’s decisions.

On the other hand, I thought maybe the Desmond/Penny story was ended and that they would live happily ever after (my exact words, I think.) So much for prescience.

Mrs Hawkings/Widmore is certainly as major a person as Desmond. I think she understands a lot more than her husband. She has been pushing and manipulating Desmond from almost the very start. She keeps saying “Whatever happens, happens.” When she says “The island isn’t done with you, Desmond,” a line repeated by Widmore, she is indicating that the island is more than just a cosmic singularity, but has a consciousness, an awareness, perhaps manifested by Jacob and MIB. She knows things and acts an Oracle to interpret and in so doing influences—her prophesies become self-fulfilling prophesies.

Another reason to rewatch this program is to focus on the sequence of events and exactly what each character says. We have too little airtime left to waste it on red herrings.

I really, really liked this episode. Yeah, the physics is loopy, but the story is great!

What part of the body was Des shot in three days ago? anyone remember? Seems like a pretty speedy recovery...

shoulder or upper arm.

great season 6 episode next to alperts.
im thinking that widmore wants to use desmond to destroy flocke and regain control of the island and its powers. just unsure how jacob fits into this unless they somehow teamed up in the past to get rid of mib.

I award Mac the Award for the Best Figuring Out of an Episode Ever!

Concerning the EM result for Des.
Not only is there no swoosh, there appeared a lovely Microsoft desk top sky and then he was in the sideways world. I thought we were going to be on the plane again.

#4. Posted by: Cecil
I doubt if we'll see desmond looking up Ethan, since ethan wasn't on 815.

Neither was Desmond on the original 815. The one we saw first.

#39. Posted by:
Maybe Ellie is the crazy Mama that keeps rebooting things until it all ends right a la Groundhog Day. To quote Jacob, "The rest is just progress."

I am more convinced than ever that it is a time loop repeating over and over til it is right. Maybe Jacob and MIB are the guardians of this project set up by the Widmores.

Question now is "What are they trying to to get right? What is the correct time line?

This goes back to my theory of this starting in the future and the island is the reset clock to decide whether man lives or not. Perhaps Ellie and Chuck or maybe that should be "or" to put them on dif sides. Learned how to manipulate time to their advantage only to discover that doing that will result in the end of everything. Because What ever happened happened is really true. If they don't get back to that original time line, the line fizzles out.

#42. Posted by: GatorGa
Anyone else feeling a "Mirror of Erised" kinda thing with the mirror/reflection theme going this season?

Sounds good. Maybe when one manipulates time, their unconscious changes to a better timeline for them. Maybe they can't control it.

HEY! Maybe this sideways world is all in Desmonds head???? Is it HIS happy ever after????

#43. Posted by: ransomjackson
I do kinda wonder if Sayid was sent by Flocke to capture Des (did Flocke know Des was The Package?), or if Sayid's nocturnal mission was to grab Jin and he just found Des first. Any naked EM-hopping Scottish candidate in a storm, I s'pose.

I wondered if Sayid ,seeing DEsmond ,caused him to "wake Up". He was definitely feeling something and one who does not care about anything would have shot the physicist instead of telling her to go.

I really liked this episode. I kept turning to my husband with raised eyebrows and open mouth wanting to share in the revelations and he would say flatly - "What?"

I also thought( not that anybody really cares but that's what so nice about this blog.)that it didn't really answer any questions, it just hinted at what what might be happening. Like the old episodes in season 1 and 2. very enjoyable.

I have always thought that Jacob needed to create the Alt time line because he can see the future to a point. He had to steer everyone to the island and have them flash through time in order to detonate the bomb. He knew blowing the bomb next to the electromagnetic pocket would create the alt time line, where even he perhaps is still living. (No Ben to stab him so no dying in normal timeline. ) it was his way of foiling MIB's plan to kill him. And soon, Desmond will somehow get the timelines to Merge, right along with Alt Jabob.
This has been rattling in my brain. We shall see

Does anyone else think that the leakages between altverses are becoming more frequent and more vivid, in part because of Desmond’s special abilities? And could these leakages be an indication of a cosmic instability, like little earth tremors before a major earthquake? And it is the consequences of the cosmic instability that is worrying Widmore?

I liked very much the first guy in the giant magnet room ended up looking like a roast pig whereas Desmond came out a little dazed with a bad sunburn!

Now, after Desmond come to, does he remember everything he experienced in altverse? If so, does that explain his apparent sudden enlightenment when he sort of says to Widmore, “Hey Chuck, I’m cool with you on this bruthuh!” And his willingness to go off with Sayid (“Hey, sorry about losing your soul Bruthuh!” He seems to have total enlightenment and is now a man on a mission.

@Crispy #48

"What part of the body was Des shot in three days ago? anyone remember? Seems like a pretty speedy recovery..."

Wasn't he magically saved by a well-placed gallon of milk?

@69 berko posted:

>>#4. Posted by: Cecil
>>I doubt if we'll see Desmond looking up Ethan, since Ethan wasn't on 815.

>Neither was Desmond on the original 815. The one we saw first.

But swDesmond asked swMinkowski to get him a passenger manifest of sw815, in order to contact those people. Since swEthan wasn't on sw815, no reason for swDesmond to look him up.

Someone please answer this... why does Desmond want to change things? Alt Desmond is doing great! He's got a very promising date at the coffee shop for godsakes! He doesn't need to change anything. And island Desmond just needs to get away from all the fighting and get back to his wife and kid. Either way he's a winner. So why change things?

I'm wondering if the universe can indefinitely sustain the two realities, or if at some point someone (Desmond, perhaps?) will have to "open the box" and "collapse the probability functions" to use some of the terminology of our Schrödinger's cat discussion from seasons past.

Will the Losties collectively have to make a decision about which reality will prevail?

I kind of got a kick out of Charlie talking about his one true love, a love so profound and deep that he experienced it fully as he was about to die and go to the other side. And who was the inspiration for this love? Not Claire but Kate. Funny because I think I read somewhere that the two actors are an item. Writers having fun again? Dominic Monaghan's payment for showing up again? Or am I way behind in reading my copies of US in the dentist's office?

@Crispy #48 and glostover #63 re:"What part of the body was Des shot in three days ago? anyone remember? Seems like a pretty speedy recovery..."

I think it was someplace not particularly vital other than causing him to bleed nearly out. He was in the hospital for blood loss. Once his tank was filled, he was good to go.

@Cecil #66 You said it much better.

@29. Posted by: Skipper
re: how will Des find the people who are not on the plane's manifest?

I imagine that we will have a trickle effect. For example - when Des gets Locke to remember island things, he could possibly remember Ben. He then talks to Ben, and gets him to remember. I imagine Desmond will be able to sense who he needs to find.

@30. Posted by: Skipper
re: love is all you need

I'm not sure if this is necessarily the case for everyone. Love is a powerful emotion, but it is not the only one! I think what intrigues me most is that prior to the activation of the wildcard, it was dead people who made the connection. And for Charlie, it was near death experiences in the sideways world that triggered things.

@48. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
re: Weird that two of the people, Charlie and Daniel, in alt-verse who think their reality is wrong and want to encourage Des to help put things right will end up dead if successful.

I don't think that the end goal is returning that reality. In fact, I would wager that this will not be possible. I believe that the sideways world will triumph at the end. Mark my words - Desmond will sacrifice himself to sink the island, and thus bring sideways world into being.

@50. Posted by: LockeBox
re: exploding the island in 2007

I think we are on similar wave lengths! I think 2007 island Desmond will sacrifice himself to sink the island, which will create the sideways world. In order to be able to do this, he will need help from other 2007 people. For some unexplained reason, he will also need help/info from the sideways people that he will be visiting. When sideways Dez awakens sideways folk who are still alive in 2007, I wonder if they too will have some deeper understanding about what it is that they have to do. In other words, when sideways Jack remembers the island, will 2007 Jack gain perspective as well? Does this make sense?

@#52. Posted by: ealgumby

I do not believe Dez will be trying to bring everyone back together on a plane, unless you think the O6 storyline is bound to be repeated! I think Dez will be waking them up, which in turn will have some sort of effect on their 2007 counterparts.

@65. Posted by: Puck
re: why does Desmond want to change things?

I do not believe this is the case. Desmond is doing this so that the sideways world will come into being. Now that he is wise, he understands that with the sideways world, he will still hook up with Penny, and eventually have a son, which he will name Charlie.

Man - I really need to re-watch this!!!

Watching the episode last night I said, "Why are they showing us so much of the alt timeline?" Then the car crash. That's when I had a huge smile thinking that there isn't any filler in this show (well, maybe sometimes). I feel like there will be a good conclusion to LOST with lots of "Oh, I get it" parts. But I'm sure there will be things left undone for us to think about.

@ 25 - Jack I like the idea of a special with lots of clues. Maybe on the Super Special DVD that will be for sale.

Did anyone notice that the MRI machine made the same sounds as Smokey or vice versa?

@swCecil #64 (2x2x2x2x2x2) Very funny post!

That Alt hospital in LA is a pretty busy place. Right now Jack is there, Charlie, Desmond, and I bet that Sun and Jin are in the ER. Kate, Sawyer and Miles might be heading there after their car crash. If I was Sayid I would head there after being beat up. Maybe his brother is in the morgue with his wife Nadia standing by. If I remember right Alt Lock is due for spinal operation. Hope they have good insurance.
No matter what timeline you’re in Eloise Widmore (Hawking) and Husband Charles, seem to know most of the rules. What you should do and when and when you should do them. Ben and Daniel know some of the rules also. Just what I want to know is who made the rules and what happens if you break them?

#64. Posted by: swCecil
But swDesmond asked swMinkowski to get him a passenger manifest of sw815, in order to contact those people. Since swEthan wasn't on sw815, no reason for swDesmond to look him up.

Yeah.... lol .....I think..... but swDesmond now realizes that swpeople on the swmanifest might be important to get him to the real Penny. Especially if they all have swleaks too. I don't think swEtahn was on either plane was he? Talking like this is as bad as nose bleeding.And it's very hard to see if I have spelled anything wrong too.

It is suddenly just hitting me that Jacob explained that the island was like a cork, and that keeping the MIB on the island was basically keeping us all from being destroyed. But in the Sideways world, the island is underwater. Then do Jacob and the MIB still exist on the island (even underwater)? Is the island still a cork? Everyone's life isn't destroyed in Sideways world...so what does that really mean? I am definitely beginning to be on that side of things that believes everyone on the island is working to make things "right," to create the right set of circumstances. I think that Charlie and Desmond and Daniel all are realizing in Alt-World that there IS a "right" set of circumstances.

@August Paul: when Charlie talks about his true love, he is talking about Claire (he mentions specifically a blonde). But then he talks about Kate because she was with the agent, and he knew the cop might bust him, so then he goes and swallows his drugs and has the Claire vision.

Regardless, I loved last night's ep. I think Desmond has possibly gotten to a place of omniscience....or maybe just supreme acceptance of his place in the universe. What he does is going to rock the world (show).

Looking at the "TV Fodder Headlines: over on the right - How can Tina Fey be giving away "30 Rock" Finale Secrets when she's running around the island toasting the odd redshirt technician? (And running away from Sayid?)

I think our friend George Minkowski knows far more that what we have seen so far. He seems to be steering Des back to his ALT life. "Did you find what you're looking for". He seems far to knowledgable about Des than a limo driver should be. Eloise is steering Des away from his ALT life and George is pushing him towards it. Interesting!

I think (hope) Des will get the people together in ALT world that have died on the island. He will then convince Eloise to find a way to return them to the island and give them a second chance at life. Charlie, Locke, Daniel, and Julliet will live again. Yeh...Too soapy maybe, but I have to see Julliet live again.

GRAA Mac!!!

And great episode. My initial thoughts were "Oh crap! They're in the Matrix!" But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense that one of the timelines needs to be eliminated. Seems the Alt world needs to survive for Jacob to keep a handle on MIB.

Not sure that Des going off with Sayid is part of Widmore's plan. It seems that Flocke's appearance made Widmore accelerate his time frame, creating more chances for mistakes.

The Desmond and Penny storylines always get me. I agree with Mac that "The Constant" is the best episode of the series. Although why swPenny would agree to have coffee with a fainting stranger who shows up at her workout knowing her name was more than a little odd. I gotta start hanging around football stadiums. ;)

Only up to post @59.. seems like most are not liking the term *leakage*, how about *Peekage* ??

As a member of the loyal dissenters, I have to say this episode was a clunker.

It started with the illogic that Widmore took three days from LA to the island with a drugged Dez just to "test" him to see if he could survive a massive EM blast. First, Widmore has not been to the island in 25 years - - - he had no idea whether his "test" equipment is present or functioning. Second, it would have been easier to "test" Des in LA at Widmore's industrial facilities before blindly going off on a quest to slay MIB.

Also, Desmond wasn't the only man who survived the EM. Eko, Locke and Charlie survived the blast, as well as everyone on the island from its fallout. Plus, the foomers and FDW spinners all were exposed to the EM.

The only thing "special" about Desmond is that when you metaphorically microwave him into a Hot Pocket with polite zombie filling, he seems to need no further explanation of what is going on. Too convenient to keep the viewers in the dark this late in the game.

Maybe the big confrontation will be a stare-down between the two deer-in-the-headlight guys: zombie Sayid and toasted Dez.

@71 gone2alpine

MRI noises were very similar to some of the noises made by smokey. Not sure what it all means.

@ 67

i don't think you are correct about charlie being inspired by kate. charlie sees kate in handcuffs and the man WITH her, and knows that man is "the law" so that is what prompts him to go into the lav and swallow his drugs. while there, he says he experiences "spectacular, consciousness altering love" after seeing a beautiful blonde woman in his dream as he is choking on the heroin. there is no doubt that it is claire.

@81/welh - I actually liked this episode a lot. I think the reason why, for me personally, was that it did not involve Jacob/MIB at all. JMHO, but that plot angle is the weakness of the series ... it seems to have been "added" later, and is less-thoroughly worked out conceptually, than the alt/sideways timeline stuff. Obviously different people see various things to like/dislike in this show, but for me, this was a good epi.

I have to comment on Hawking's gaudy double star brooch. (Sideways tangent: brooch comes from the Old French word for "spit for roasting" which ironically is what happened to Desmond upon his return to the island).

I assume this is a reference to Luke Skywalker's planet, which may be a more subtle reference that this world is supposed to end. Hawking is taking the Obi-Wan role, while Desmond is taking the naive Luke role.

GRAA, Thank you Mac!

#61.bob: I've been thinking along the same lines recently. Is Jacob pulling an elaborate long con on MIB?

#62 August Paul: I 100% agree, Desmond struck me as enlightened and not a bit as stunned.
#67 August Paul: Yes they were (are?) an item! I know Charlie referred to Kate, but then I could swear I heard him later describe his beloved as "blonde"???? Did I make that up?

Sayid seems to be functioning better. I thought it was a very good sign that he didn't murder Zoe...it might be indicative of his independent thinking.

I wonder if the names on Desmond's requested 815 manifest will some how be associated with the names on the lighthouse wheel?

@84/ ealgumby:

Early on last night, I almost bit on the conceptual story building blocks that the flashbacks events were true, the alternative sideways time line was next in linear time and then the island events were representative of sideways characters tripping into their afterlives after death. But then I realized the sideways and flashback episodes do not synch properly, and the dialogue quickly reverted towards merging island and sideways universes.

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@ bocgirl #75, et al. Yes you all pay more attention than I do. I rewatched and Charlie did indeed say that his vision was blonde, rapturously beautiful. Oh well...

@welh #81, while I disagree with you, your post still made me laugh (zombie Sayid and Toasted Dez.) Widmore may not have been back to the island, but I think he has been keeping track of what has been going on there. And while others experienced the EM flash, Desmond was closest to the center. Doesn't the effect fall off as some power of the distance from the center? And since he has kidnapped Desmond, I would think it safer to conduct the experiment on an island that can't be found and at the place where he wants Desmond to fulfill his destiny.

I think Eloise knows a lot more about what is going on than Charles. In fact, Eloise knows so much stuff and is so coy talking about it, she must be...Darlton!

Next question: What is the relationship between Eloise and the little blonde boy who scolded Locke about the rules? Mother and son? Father and daughter?

@88

That is by far the best theory I have ever heard! The show is totally going to end that way. You are a genius!

************ SPOILER ALERT ***********

Who is Penny's mother?

Why she's Smokey's and Jacob's mom.

Widmore encountered her corporeal form on the island somehow and they had a fling. He was unaware of her role as a supreme entity in the mysticism of the island.

Widmore was banashed For two reasons: 1) getting too close to the Smokey/Jacob conflict which is intended to naturally play itself out, and 2) the birth of Penny, for which this mother would not want this child inhabiting the island thus delegating the father to look over her "off-island".

Desmond being the lynch pin? Only because of his link to Penny. Penny is the key character in this mess. Smokey might want off island to get back at mother for playing favorites. Remember, Smokey told Ricardo regarding his mother, "...if things had been different between us".

"The rules" often referred to throughout the series may be the rules around not messing with Penny's ultimate destiny planned by her mother, who appears to be THE supreme entity in all of this.

Another great line from the epi was when the tech was fastening Des in the MRI and said, "Here, you'll need this button". The look on Desmond's face was priceless.

Just some thoughts. I kept waiting for the irish man to enter the pub...cos the old joke always starts with a Scotsman, and Englishman and an Irishman sitting at a bar...oh wait...maybe it is a rabbi, a priest and a minister.

Did anyone else think that Charlie was going to take a flying leap thru the hospital window as his hospital gown floated in the breeze and end up in a broken heap a la Locke?

Charlie is very adamant that the sideways timeline is incorrect, however the sinking of the island has not let MIB loose on the world.

Loved the way Desmond tore the wee chair to shreds - tho his complete change of heart was a big disappointment - as it allowed Mr. Widmore to avoid giving all of us viewers a good explanation.

Was the hospital orderly who put Des into the MRI machine the same guy who Claire smacked with the axe earlier this season? Was the lady who was checking out Des's eyes when he awoke from the EM machine the same lady who was checking out his vision at the hospital?
Does the touch between Penny and Des have anything in common with the touch of Jacob, MIB or even Jack to Sun?

I am always extremely impressed with Desmond episodes. Leak much?

I'll be back after I read everything... hopefully.

I feel so behind on this blog... and deprived of it. =/

Does anyone else think that the crossovers (that is what I call it instead of leakage)have a bigger effect on them than just love. It's almost like they are brainwashed. It caused Charlie to almost kill himself and Desmond. LAdez is SO wrapped up he needs to find everyone and show them too, and IslandDez seems to be a little too easily persuaded. Maybe when they crossover, its more than what it seems.

Oh Charlie......

You crazy man!

Click my name for some Lost comical amusement.

Make sure you check out the other new ones too! Whenever I try to post several of the links in the comments, the message is blocked.

And for all of you Vincent fans, this one is a must!

Losties in other contexts:

Sam "Bernard Nadler" Cunningham as a reluctant assistant of "The Dark Man" on the 4 part tv-movie adaptation of Steven King's "The Stand" showing up on the SF channel lately.

Matthew "Jack Shepard" Fox as a presidential protection detail member in "Vantage Point" showing up on cable TV lately.

And of course Elizabeth "Juliet Burke" Mitchell just returned in "V", and Dominic "Charlie Pace" Monaghan and Sonya "Penelope Widmore" Walger in FlashForward.

How about "escapes" or "disclosures" instead of "leakage"

For all the doubters, my $5 TV set was right - in the latest edition of GeronimoJacksBeard, Jorge Garcia's audio podcast, #611-Happily Ever After, Jorge and his girfriend confirm that Kevin "Martin Keamy" Durand is being bombarded by questions about the what he said in last week's episodes, and swears (Jorge confirms this) that (1) the script says nothing about "the island" in his speech to Jin, and that (2) he, Durand, did not say "the island" when he delivered the lines.

I disagree with Mac, Love also causes the escapes from alt-timelineville.

Love will also be the key to either keeping Flocke in check on the Island or letting him loose to wreak havoc on the world. Don't know if it is Penny/Desmond, Sun/Jin, Jack/Kate, Sawyer/Kate, Hurley/Vincent....

All I got to say is "WOW" - this final season is definitely a "RIDE" and I am loving it, dreading the end.

Re: #14 - Do we think Angstrom is related to Maelstrom (Miles Strom)??

#85. welh: Eloise's brooch:

Thanks for reminding me of that...the double star made me think of something else. In the book Escape to Witch Mountain, Tia's little purse has a double star embossed on it. Not that that's really relevant, but it did cross my mind...just like wondering where Vincent is brought Lassie's trainer's name to mind (Rudd Weatherwax). ; )

Poor Daniel will feel like a fool when he realizes that the love of his life is a whore who would sleep with a blind date in the first 2 minutes of dinner.

It's about time that the two worlds crossed. This gets rid of all speculation that the two timelines are separate. As everything changes the scotch stays the same.

It was interesting when Eloise said that Desmond got what he always wanted so why chase other things. Is that what the sideways world is? Maybe Saywer always wanted to be a cop, maybe Locke always wanted to have his Dad, but he still ended up with the other malaise, Jack ended up having the son he always wanted, Hurley is happy and wanted to be rich. Sayid just wanted Nadia to be alive, she is but she is not his. It could be that "Be careful what you wish for" situation. Jin and Sun are together, but in a different way, Kate's step-dad didn't die in the blast but someone else did.

I was just complaining at how they removed the scientific angle of the show and BOOM! They bring it back. The leaks are happening for more than others, but it's not the first leak. Remember when they first introduced Daniel he was crying about 815 crashing but had no idea why? It could be that he has been through this already.
Also love the shoutout to the number 4, carousel 4. Locke being number 4. Wonder why they used that number.
I would say that is this the best episode yet over the last few seasons. Crazy good stuff writers.

Where does swDesmond live? He's visiting LA and staying at a hotel, so he obviously doesn't live in LA (even though his boss does). Where did he get the Mercedes that crashed into the water? Again, he doesn't live in LA, the company hired him a driver/car so where did the Mercedes come from?

swPenny, swWidmore and swEloise all have English accents but poor swDaniel doesn't. If Daniel grew up in the US (which would explain his accent) then maybe Penny grew up with her mum in England - maybe took on her step-father's last name or her mother's maiden name. So the clues for who might be Penny's mom are that her last name is Milton and she's English??

@105 Alaïs_Longthought thought:

>..just like wondering where Vincent is brought Lassie's trainer's name to mind (Rudd Weatherwax). ; )

Sounds like one of Dr. Chang's aliases.

@100. $5 TV hahaha. Doesn't compete with my $5000 system. It was clear as day he didn't say island. I wonder if Sayid and Claire being in their zombie forms allows their sideways life to see more of less of the leak.

So if the island is the cork...

what is the bottle?

When Charlie took the wheel and forced Desmond to drive off the road and into the water - why didn't Desmond just slam on the breaks? I always wonder about that when I see a scene like this in movies.

When Eloise saw Desmond for the first time, she totally knew who he was and had a surprised look on her face. I'm surprised Des didn't catch it and call her out on it.

After reading Nester Carbonell's interview that the ending will be "heartbreaking" I think Des will have to sacrifice his life with Penny and little Charlie and stay on the Island to keep MIB in check while everyone else goes back and fixes their lives.
The Des/Penny story has been the ultimate love story through this whole thing. It has been enduring and sweet and we ALL want them to be togther. He will ultimately choose to stay to save them all.
But what do I know.

@110. A 60 year old bottle of MacCutcheon

Q: Why did Zoe cross the road?
A: Because Sayid said to run.

@111/Skipper - "why didn't Desmond just slam on the breaks?"

I can unfortunately answer this from personal experience (which will come as no surprise to some I suppose ;> ) ... cars do not stop on a dime when you step on the brakes! In my case, slamming the brakes did not prevent me from leaving the highway, taking out two trees (6" diameter trunks), and ending up facing 180 degrees backward atop the second felled tree (no injuries either ... air bags are wonderful things). So I totally grant the writers credence in this case ... you can wonder no more.

#81. welh: Who's been exposed to EM:

I touched on this in #14...if I had to try to explain what TPTB are getting at (always dangerous), I would say that Des is the one who got the biggest dose of EM & that's why Widmore wants him. Charlie, Eko, & Locke aren't around any longer or perhaps Widmore would want to try them as guinea pigs (or perhaps I should say bunnies...sorry, Bunny Lover!) as well. And re "Toasted Dez": Sounds like a cocktail, as does Zombie Sayid. I wonder what ingredients would go into those drinks... ; )

#89. August Paul: Eloise = Darlton:

Now that's an LOL... ; )

#108. Cecil: Rudd Weatherwax:

Ha...yes, you're right; it could be a Pierre alias. ealgumby & I agreed that Weatherwax sounds incredibly artificial, like a name from a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys story.

FYI, I read the Readers' Digest Condensed version of this episode over on Lostpedia, & they pointed out something that had escaped me: Eloise's brooch appears similar to the brand that Juliet received lo these many years ago.

#84. ealgumby: No Jacob/MIB:

I hadn't thought of that, but perhaps that's one of the reasons I too really liked this episode. I was wondering if different writers specialize, so to speak, in certain plotlines & I just happen to like the writer(s) who are responsible for Des's plotline. Then again, it may just be that the focus was on the characters & the science-oriented end of things rather than the religious-mystical, or that the focus was Desmond & the episodes in which he features tend to be superb (à la The Constant, as Mac pointed out). Either way, for me this was a great episode.

My only quibble...& it's going to sound funny...is that Des kept his clothes this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah...I can hear you all everybody now... ; ) ; ) ; ) ...but it's a continuity error from Des's previous experience w/EM. I have to wonder whether The Time Traveler's Wife was influencing the writers at the time of the Swan implosion (the time-traveling protagonist in that book loses his clothes each time he travels).

Any bets on Sawyer and Juliet having coffee (LA X) at the same shop when Desmond meets Penny?

Could be that our wish to see her again is right around the corner...

WE NEVER SAW WHERE DES WAS SHOT

Ben starts to pull his gun as he passes Desmond getting groceries from the trunk of a car. Desmond yells at Ben "Hey, what are you doing here!." Ben turns around, pulls the gun and shoots Desmond. The bullet hits the groceries and a carton of milk but as Desmond is falling to the ground, no wound can been seen on his body.

#80

THAT WOULD WORK!
*Peekage*

@89. August Paul

Next question: What is the relationship between Eloise and the little blonde boy who scolded Locke about the rules? Mother and son? Father and daughter?

**I totally forgot about that little boy!! What the heck?

@92. grannyvi

Another great line from the epi was when the tech was fastening Des in the MRI and said, "Here, you'll need this button". The look on Desmond's face was priceless.

That was hilarious. Des was like "Button. Button. Why does that word strike fear and loathing into my heart?"

@100. Cecil

Good to know. That was still bugging me!

@60 berkyo...Question now is "What are they trying to to get right? What is the correct time line?"

I believe that what they are trying to get right is their humanity. All of our characters, as seen in their flashbacks, are flawed, selfish characters. Several people on the show have had discussions about the fact that there are always choices and that one should choose correctly on their own. I think ultimately, to get things *right*, our characters will have to begin to make the *right* choices, in other words, choices made from a place of love and selflessness. The *right* timeline will be the one that originates from that.

The MIB said that "it always ends the same." Death and destruction ensue every time. That is essentially what we have seen from our Losties up until this point. If they all have their "visions of love" and return, maybe the outcome will be different. Maybe they all need the Dharma juice that that man gave Sayid to get him to talk ;-)

@121:
But no one is truly happy in either timeline/reality.

@116. Don't confuse Lost with the Terminator.

I can't wrap my head around the theory that a 'course correction' needs to be made.

According to the entire history of the island, (and it goes waaaaaay back), was the island EVER in the right place or time? Haven't Jacob and MiB been trying to 'correct' the situation for centuries?

What makes anybody think that our crew is the one that is going to fix it now?

Which brings me back to the question... WHAT is the Island?

Universal Law of Attraction- the law of attraction can be described as the construction or procedure of an energy acting mutually between particles of matter, between people, and between circumstances, tending to draw them together, and resisting their seperation. attraction is the magnetic relationship existing between things or persons that are drawn together.

@124. The question is not WHAT but WHO.

@126

How can the Island possibly be a Who?!?

It's a physical and tangible land mass with trees, and sand, and wierd statues, and kick-ass gadgets...

How can an inanimate "thing" posess the capacity of free thought, intent?

What is it's ultimate purpose?

I have been wondering why Jin was kidnapped and brought to Hydra to witness the lets-microwave-a-person experiment. (Didn't work with the apocryphal dry the dog routine) But I guess it's because he had worked with Dharma for three years (but then so did Sawyer who was in the same little group as Jin--Miles is with the other group and Juliette, well, she has her hands full of Visitors right now.) So Jin know where the pockets of EM energy source are. Magnets, by the way, are always dipoles (searches for magnetic monopoles may or may not have been successful--I can't remember) and so we might expect the pockets to be in pairs. Evidently, Desmond having survived the test to W's satisfaction, is slated for a bigger zap, one that will obliterate one of the two alternate universes. Desmond seems to know this and no longer needs W to lead him. Hence he lets Sayid lead him away.

Did anyone wonder if Desmond would lose his clothing in the shack after the "test" like he did after the hatch explosion?

We have now been treated to performances of Fantasie Impromptu and You All Everybody on the same show. All you have to do is play them simultaneously and the two universes collapse into one! And up there in the sky will be a giant space ship with Mrs. Hawking's face beaming down and saying "What Happens Happens Earthlings."

Too much coffee.

I was seriously waiting to see George Minkowski on a ferris wheel.

I guess I have been scolded and banished from the island by today's Jeff Jensen episode review:

"If you've been a Sideways hater, and you remain one after last night's episode, you may as well call it a wrap on your Lost interest and skip ahead to the rest of your post-Lost life."

Aloha.

WHEN DES WAS WATCHING PENNY RUN THEY SHOULD HAVE PLAYED THIS OLD SONG BY THE TUBES

Amnesia
Tubes

It seems we stood and talked
Like this before
Why can’t I remember
Did we share something more

I must have loved you
Once upon a time
Amnesia has come
And clouded my mind

Was there a fire burning
Or were there tears
Did I ever whisper
Words of love in your ear

I can’t go on
Not knowing my own name
I only have
This curse of love to blame

What have I done to deserve this
Can’t find my love if I can’t find myself
I’m imprisoned by amnesia
And I can’t break the spell

The love of days gone past
Is haunting me
Your face looks so familiar
Who can you be

This is the price
That I have to pay
That’s why I cry
Cry out for yesterday

What have I done to deserve this
Can’t find my love if I can’t find myself
I’m imprisoned by amnesia
And I can’t break the spell

It seems we stood and talked
Like this before
Why can’t I remember
Did we share something more

I must have loved you
Once upon a time
Amnesia has come
And clouded my mind

What have I done to deserve this
Can’t find my love if I can’t find myself
I’m imprisoned by amnesia
And I can’t break the spell

#111. Posted by: Skipper

I was actually under teh impression that Charlie had put his foot over Des' on the gas pedal as well. I remember noting at the time that it sounded like the car was accelerating as it drove toward the water.

@wehl...nobody is happy anywhere

My point was that now in AltLA, when the Losties are "shown the love", they will begin to make the *right* choices. This may include a reboot trip to the island to do things *right* for once. Then they will all live happily ever after.

And wehl, don't go!! We make the *right* choices here. We love lovers AND haters. ;-) I've read Doc Jensen for the first time this season. Who needs him when we have Mac? I gave up on Doc after reading him about four times. He's way too out there and obscure for my tastes.

@WolfMom61...I was sure HOPING that he would lose his clothes!!

now we see things starting to come together,
now we see the seeds of the finale being sown,
fantastic episode which im happy to award 9 out of 10,
the fact that it featured a scotsman as the LOST version of the messiah kinda added 1 point to my score (my biassed),
i liked desmonds gaelic toast whilst sharing a drink with widmore,
also nice to see eloise hawking again although she seems a bit like betty white on steroids in this epi.
my hope is that we will have these types of episodes every week now,
i have doctor who on a sat. night,
and brand new lost on a wed. night,
thats why i dont play the lotto-
my life is already complete.

As a suggestion to replace "leakage" et al., I'd suggest 'crosstalk'. Quoting from a Wikipedia page:

"In electronics, crosstalk (XT) is any phenomenon by which a signal transmitted on one circuit or channel of a transmission system creates an undesired effect in another circuit or channel. Crosstalk is usually caused by undesired capacitive, inductive, or conductive coupling from one circuit, part of a circuit, or channel, to another."

Crosstalk seems apropos, as I'd say there has already been some undesired coupling...

Last night, I finally achieved a truce with the sideways world. I think we now can reasonably piece togther a plausible unified theory of Lost, one that combines last week's community theory on Smokey=EMF/island=hatch=cork with the developments of another great Desmond focused episode.

If this is the way it ends, I can certainly live with it:

The island is a cork/jail/hatch, designed to contain a powerful pocket EMF that if uncontained, would create some sort of singularity, ending life as we know it.

Apparently, this energy, even when contained, can create the physical anomolies of seasons past- the altering of light, shifts in time incurred when approaching or leaving the island, exit holes in the Sahara, and the FDW (don't worry, I won't reopen the conversation around wormholes, the Casimir effect, exotic matter, etc.).

MIB is the human manifestation of that energy- if he escapes the island, so does the energy. Jacob is the jailer or protector (and thus the connotations of Tawaret, who held back the evil of her consort, Apep). Whether either had an actual human identity and past that was somehow assimilated by the forces of the island, remains unknown.

This "escape" can be seen as a physical, scientific event, or as a faith-based vision of the end of the days or apocalypse- but to a dying world, what's the difference?

In the linear world of Lost represented by the first few season's character flashbacks, this event will in fact happen in the immediate future, as predicted by the Valenzetti equation.

In that Equation, there are constants that cannot be changed coupled with variables that can- the six infamous numbers, one of which must be changed to avert MIB's release and the end of the world.

Jacob correctly interprets these numbers as individuals, and as the "end of days" approaches, begins to collect 360 names which he draws to the island in an effort to find the final candidate or variable who will solve the "equation"- not to replace him as jailer, as we originally thought, but to alter time- to create a future event horizon where the world survives.

If Smokey can kill them or cause their death on island-they weren't the right candidate ("If the glove don't fit, you must acquit"..um, nevermind).

What has been perceived as general doucheness on Jacob's part is immaterial, because there is only one positive ending. When the puzzle is solved or the black/white game completed, all the candidates who were brought to the island and suffered painful deaths will be rebooted, and allowed to go along their merry life path.

While taking place three years earlier than current on-island events, the sideways world is essentially a flash-forward, showing what happens after the energy has been contained and the island submerged.

As seen so far, the ALT-characters appear to be better but are still not "whole".

Which takes us to redemption and sacrifice- the characters brought to the island are broken and flawed. They must overcome their failures, finding redemption through a trial and error process across time that will end in their exercising their free will and sacrifice themselves to save the world.

That redemption process is the first step and happens on-island, through all the events we have seen over the last five years. But would they choose to die to save the world in the current on-island timeline? They would, if their consciousnesses began to merge with their alt-selves.

This leads us to the second part of redemption. To find happiness, sacrifice is not enough- there must also be awareness, the wisdom gained from the mistakes made and right paths chosen, which was the epiphany realized by Desmond in this episode.

The last few episodes will likely play out as tragic, with the death of some or all of our beloved characters on-island, all sacrifices for the end-plot which will result in recapping or destroying the energy (MIB) and saving the world.

But last night showed us we may also get a full-on dose of happiness in the sideways world, as these characters gradually merge their island consciousness with their sideways consciousness, gain peace and wisdom from their sacrifices, reconnect with each other and fill their lives with what has been missing.

Get ready to pass the hankies....

In my last way too long post, I left out one important point- I believe we've been wrong to view the sideways world as a scenario involving no Jacob. I think the sideways world exists only because Jacob did intervene in their lives, giving them the opportunity to find the Dharma or path that leads eventually to their better Sidewayd selves.

In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" Desmond's consciousness traveled into the past. When he awoke naked on the island, we assumed initially that he only remembered what we saw in his flashback. But he also seemed to pick up an ability to "see" into the future. He saw Locke's speech and he knew about Charlie's death.

Again, I think TPTB are trying to trick us by leaving the impression that Desmond only saw his consciousness shift to the ALT world. But what if the EM not only shifted Des between Island and ALT time, but also re-ignited his visions into the future.

He seemed so confident in what had to be done and he was not the least bit surprised by Sayid's appearance.

DITK - Desmond is the Key

#140. Posted by: theoldred29 - He seemed so confident in what had to be done and he was not the least bit surprised by Sayid's appearance.

Of course he was not surprised to see Sayid...he had already seen him in the water when they were taking him out of the sub. Following him would also make sense. The last time the two saw each other they were friends and allies.

I wonder if there is any significance to the fact that when he is explaining to Claire that he only "needs" Kate to help him ensnare other candidates, MIB uses the phrase "Whatever happens, happens"?

#121. Posted by: lost2theworld
I think ultimately, to get things *right*, our characters will have to begin to make the *right* choices, in other words, choices made from a place of love and selflessness. The *right* timeline will be the one that originates from that.

I see what you are saying,the candidiates all had redemption experiences, but MIB and widmore and Hawking (has Jacob?) have predicted dire results for EVERYBODY. they would all cease to exist, like in all mankind. Why would the moral choices of the few candidates weigh in the balance of all mankind? I think it must be a bigger picture.

Just my thoughts here, not saying you are wrong.

#138. Posted by: Mizzed

Yes. I like this Mizzed. and answers my question above. At least as much as I need to know.

When Desmond tried to buy Penny's engagement ring several years ago-Eloise told him "you're not ready yet", just like she did last night.

OK, I had to choose between the Women's NCAA championship game and Lost. I made the right choice - but avoiding this blog til I viewed the show tonight was painful! I'm still catching up on the posts, but this needs to be said:

Mac, instead of focusing simply on the details of plot or dialogue, you nailed it with your description of how we were all FEELING. I found myself holding my breath during every scene, including Charlie's second drowning. Wouldn't it be something if a sci-fi/time-travel show was ultimately a love story?

Yay Huskies!

#132. welh: Aloha:

We don't need no stinkin' Doc Jensen, but we do need you!

#133. CHRIS: Song lyrics:

I had never heard (well, read) those lyrics before; thank you for sharing. I'll have to look for the song now.

#136. san: Gaelic toast:

I was actually thinking of you when Des made the toast! Was it "slainte" that he used? How exactly is it pronounced?

Milton = Paradise Lost

Anyone noticed that Daniel's equations had a graph with the x axis labeled "imaginary time"?
I'm not an expert, but this is a known physical concept. It has to do with all numbers having a real and imaginary part.
Sorry for my english, writing this from Chile (South America)

Alt universe is created by MIB, and is giving EVERYONE, what they desired.

This is the key.

Eloise is the one that trapped Jacon and MIB on the Island, if MIB gets off the Island, Alt reality becomes real.

@mac,
Do you know how we contact the writers of lost? an address or email?
I was thinking we should send them a note asking them if they would do a special DVD (after the show is done) to show us what all the clues were, what everthing meant and what we missed. They would make a lot of money on it!!!

When Keamy shot Alex in season five and Ben stated that "*He* changed the *rules*", was that the true turning point (rather than Juliette detonating Jughead?)? (*He* who and what *rules* and why and why then, by the way?) Did Ben know that from that point on everything would change? Or nothing would be predictable again? Or nothing that was going to happen from that point on would really matter? Or that au contraire the ultimate chain of events had just begun (Jacob at the end of season 5: "*It* only ends once. All in between is just progress"). And all we are seeing now is just the consequence of that "*He* changed the *rules*!"... so that *it* can end? *It* what? Or who?... Enjoying the ride, Mac's reviews and all of your comments! Naike

Why did the O6 have to recreate the 815 flight conditions on the Ajira plane in order to return to the Island, per Eloise's instructions? Apparently, any 'ol sub can just cruise right up to the Island w/o issue.

I read on another website that Desmond was wearing a gold wedding band when he sat next to Jack on the plane in LA X. I haven't seen this mentioned here, so I thought I'd post it. Probably just another production error.

Still wonder when Mr Eko is going to pop out of the cloud ?

@98:

and don't forget TOM (aka: Mr. Friendly) in previews for the new horror series, "Happy Town." (on the CW I think?)And the actor that plays BERNARD is in Flash Forward too, I believe.

FYI - both Evangeline Lilly and Matthew Fox have publically said they are done with acting for a while once Lost wraps.

It's interesting that Sawyer had the opportunity, while back in time, to save his parents yet chose not to do so.

All this time travel messes with my head but I think Eloise is manipulating things to prevent Daniel from being killed. Wouldn't you?

I'd also like to know how TPTB pitched this story to the studio. "I'd like to do a show about ...." All this brain power out there and we still are no closer than we were six years ago.

I'm enjoying August weather in April. Hope everyone has a great day.

@152 Skipper wondered:

>Why did the O6 have to recreate the 815 flight conditions on the Ajira plane in order to return to the Island, per Eloise's instructions? Apparently, any 'ol sub can just cruise right up to the Island w/o issue.

The speculation was that 'the island' (whatever that means) allowed flight 815 through its defenses for it's own reasons, probably due to the mix if people on board some of whom Jacob had touched (summoned) for his own reasons.

The Widmore faction, wanting to put people on the island, or at least get Ajira 316 there (In order to find it? To test their predictive power of where the island would be?) wanted to recreate as closely as possible the conditions of Oceanic 815 on Ajira 316 in the hopes that the island would let 316 through its defenses also.

Now suppose that those island defenses are carried out, not by some impersonal force, but by a personal protector, either Smokey or someone/something *like* Smokey. And suppose that, as we have seculated about Smokey, that personal protector is repelled/rebuffed/defeated/destroyed by water, why then a submarine could approach the island withough being molested/diverted/sent through time, etc, while a surface ship or airplane could not.

So..the four-letter word that describes the island was CORK. Now we know that the four-letter word that define's the show's overall theme is LOVE.

Yep. Damon confirms it (in an interview with E!'s Watch with Kristin). Excerpt below:

------------------

In tonight's episode of Lost, we learned what the entire series really is all about.

It's a four-letter word. It's not spoilery. And according to Damon Lindelof himself, it is what Lost "always has been…always will be."

That word is...

Love.

A couple weeks ago, after I got a little intel on tonight's episode, I floated the following theory to Damon: "Is it safe to say that at its very core Lost is a love story?"

Damon replied: "You are the very first person ever to get the meaning of the show. Yes. It is a love story. Always has been...always will be."

I tell you this not to brag (Damon's message framed above my mantel does the trick), but because if you are a fan of the show's "constants"--Desmond and Penny, Charlie and Claire, Sun and Jin, Rose and Bernard, Daniel and Charlotte, Richard and Isabella, etc.--then, like me, those words from Damon just might be the sweetest ones you've ever heard about this series.

Obviously, there will be plenty of other things going on in Lost's final episodes: What happens to the Man in Black, the Island, Jacob, etc. But after tonight's episode, I think we can safely assume why the actors and producers keep saying that the end of Lost will be "emotional"--and why Carlton Cuse told us, "If it matters to our characters, it matters to us"--because a huge driving force in the end is whether the Losties will reconnect with the people they love...or not.

Which brings us to the not-so-sweet part: Damon also told me: "It's gonna get painful before it's over."

-------------
Gulp. Maybe everyone must sacrifice their love for another in order to save us all...(like Dogan did for his son?)
And maybe the "sacrifice" isn't island penance and servitude but death? IE: do you love him/her enough to lay down your life for theirs?

@157 pebspostal asked:

>I'd also like to know how TPTB pitched this story to the studio. "I'd like to do a show about ...." All this brain power out there and we still are no closer than we were six years ago.

My recollection of the history is that it was more a case of the network pitching the show to TPTB (if you consider JJ Abrams to the TPTB).

Something like "We've got an idea for a show about plane crash survivors on an island that doesn't quite work and we'd like you to punch it up a bit." Abrams took the outline of the pilot and turned it into a script including the supernatural/superscience issues that got network approval to be made. Along the way he imported Damon Lindelof to help with the writing. Lindelof more or less took over as JJ Abrams was called on to other creative tasks and productions (including "Fringe") and Lindelof added Carleton Cuze as the other half of the creative writing/producing team.

They've maintained all along that the overall story was planned from the beginning though the individual eps were filled out as they went along, with obvious story diversions depending on what was working and what was not, actor availability, and other mundane production issues that are part of the collaborative creative medium that is TV.

I think the correct term for flashes between universes is "bleeding through" (in homage to the recent rash of head gashes). I also believe that if both universes were real and were to merge, instead of nose bleeds, characters' heads would explode.

I also have come to a speculative conclusion that one of the universes does not exist; it is an illusion, a Room 23 construct, part of a long con. That is probably the sideways world.

I think the sideways world was a way to attempt to overwrite the real world to test candidates, to see if they could be fully mind controlled by Widmore. In the sideways world, Desmond's only purpose was to serve Widmore. He had no family life. He was all work. Complete loyalty. No questions asked. After the EM blast, those are the strong memories that are guiding Desmond, who now suddenly is following Widmore's orders.

Comic book science answered my question about Desmond's being EM-microwaved: Widmore was not "testing" him but actually "creating" a new Smoke Monster (DeSmokey) to take on the old one, Flocke.

I can see this sad ending: Desmond defeating Flocke in a smoke and lightning battle. But instead of keeping the false memories, Desmond sees flashes of his real life with Penny and his son. He rushes to the Hydra dock to find Widmore's sub already leaving the island. "Come back! Don't leave me here!" he screams.

From the deck, Widmore tells him he was the sacrifice the island demanded, that he can never leave the island, and that he could never see Penny or his son again.

Enraged, Desmond turns into a dark smoke monster and turns back into the jungle, ripping up trees along his path,
just like the old Smokey in Season 1. He has become the new island Cerberus.

Good News! Damon and Carlton are breaking their previously-taken "vow of silence" following the Lsot finale.

They are sitting down with Jimmy Kimmel for an hour long post-show special, "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost." Lots of castmembers will be stopping by to chat too, so this is not to be missed.It will air following the last Lost episode (sigh) on 5/23.

I GOT IT!

So far we have seen the alt lives of those that were on the island whether alive of dead when the Jughead went off. This caused a shift to an alt world where 815 landed. The mirror represented a look into what there live should have been as opposed to the present. They all seem to have had what they wished for but no one seems to have had the perfect life that they wanted.

Desmond was not on the Island when jughead went off and Widmore knew that he had to blast Desmond to change his alt life. That's why Des was on the plane briefly but disappeared and Jack wondered if he really saw him. Des needed to be blasted with the electo magnetism to officially change his alt life because he avoided it before. That's why after getting blasted Hurley and Clair remember seeing him on the plane even though he really was on it until after he got blasted. Widmore knew that Charlie would be the key into showing him what his life will be like if things have changed. Somehow the bomb going off created a tangent in their lives and if MIB wins he will destroy the Island life they should have and they'll be permanently stuck in the alt world. Widmore knew that blasting Desmond would get him to the alt world and allow him to see Charlie and speak with his constant Daniel. When Desmond woke up in island world and past out in alt life this was the official meeting of the two tangents where Desmond can now alternate between the two worlds and knows that he can alter either one.
Eloise knows that Desmond changing the alt world is a violation of this and doesn't want him to change what has happened and to leave it alone, but widmore doesn't agree and wants Des to change it.
From what I gather, Widmore is going to set off another grand explosion in one of the pockets of energy to course correct what has happened.

One other note. Remember when Ben brought the Lockes dad to the island and said that the island had a magic box that we all though was a metaphor? Could it be that this box Desmond was zapped in is the actual box?

#148. Posted by: aferrer

Hola!
el Inglés es muy bueno. Mi español es muy lousy.

#150. Posted by: Christina

Damon has a FB page.

Does anyone think that Eloise's earrings and those odd broaches were significant? They look like magnets. Is there a closeup?

This episode seemed full of easter eggs.

@121 i dont see hurley fitting in the category of "flawed" and "selfish".....

@146-Alais_longthought,
what desmond said just before having a drink was slange which is pronounced slanj,
this is a shortened version of the scottish gaelic word slangevar meaning cheers or good health.

GRAA Mac! Great episode, great review. Great! :)
I'm not doing a good job catching up with the comments, so here's a first reply and some of my thoughts.

I must admit I'm a bit confused why people seem to think this episode was so difficult to grasp. Did I miss something, or was this the most straight forward episode in a long time? Very little happened on the Island: Widmore puts Desmond in his big generator thingy to test if Desmond can survive it, because apparently Widmore plans on bringing on some EM mojo. Desmond survives and agrees to help Widmore, only to be `freed' by Sayid in the end. Most of the story happened in Alt world, but also that was a linear story in which we even got some sort of answers (which for Lost means "answers"): Alt!Des has the respect of Widmore (or so it seems), but does not have Penny in his life. Alt!Charlie and Alt!Faraday teach him a Valuable Lesson^tm: Dying or seeing hot women takes you to a magical wonderland where you have a kid with Penny and we are dead.
I'm not saying it's not a hard episode to recap, it probably is just because we got so many Lost-style answers, not for the lack of them. Or perhaps I shouldn't say many, but a big ones about the nature of the Alt world and Des's role in the story.

Re: Penny Milton: Was Milton her last name? I got the impression it was the next name on the list they were reading. I could be mistaken. Whoever made the Lostpedia entry agrees with you, Mac.

@10, tweedle_dee: "WHAT IS THE ISLAND?!?"
Is he really? Hmm... didn't know that.

@14, Alaïs_Longthought: ""leaks." (Yes, we really do need another word here.)"

Sideways parallel flashes, or splashes. Yes, Desmond leaked a lot of splashes this week.

-Where was Liam? Did Charlie's bailout take place before the scene with Liam we saw before in Alt!Sawyer's ep?

-The Alt world is clearly evil. We lost a genius physicist and gained a musician... we're doomed!

-Speaking of Daniel, does anyone have a screen shot of those notes Alt!Daniel showed Alt!Desmond? Daniel said his friend at CalTech told him it was quantum mechanics, but at a first glance to me it looked more like some relativity theory. I could be wrong, it was gone too quickly. And of course I didn't spend all my life studying Lost's version of quantum mechanics. (One would need time travel to even have one's whole life to spend on that, no?)

@30, Skipper: "Poor Locke doesn't have an island love life."

The Island is ... sorry "was"... his love.

@41, lost_my_mind: "GRAA Mac! Not sure if it really matters at this point, but did Widmore really tell Des that he was shot 3 days ago, meaning all the on island stuff this season has happened in just 3 days of real time?"

Yes, I think that's perfectly consistent. Actually, in his earlier reviews this season Doc Jensen over at EW made a whole big deal out of how he thought season 6 was going to mirror the Easter weekend in Christian mythology. Most of the on-Island fragment's we've seen have focused on different characters doing things at the same time. It surely have been three eventful days, but I can see how all this fits into three days. The first day ended at Sundown, the second one I think last episode.

@50, LockeBox: "Daniel might be wrong in thinking he already set off a bomb."

Somebody set us up the bomb!

Since the Altverse doesn't take place before or after Islandverse, we can hardly speak of before and after, can we? If you purely go by dates, the bomb (they should have named the thing) went off in 1977 or around that time, Alt815 landed in 2004. But the "Not Penny's Boat" scene on-Island surely took place more than a couple of days after 815, so `before' the car diving lesson courtesy of drug addict Charlie.

@53, BEMH: "Also, did anyone else think that Charlie was acting more like his new character on Flash Forward than as the dopey Charlie we know and love?"

Yes, I noticed that too. I was wondering if it was just that I had gotten used to him in his new role, since I haven't seen the old Lost episodes in quite some time, or if it was bad acting. I hardly think it was intentional and I sure hope they won't try to bolster ratings for FlashForward by tying it in with Lost.

@ GatorGal #159. If I had thought of that and then received that note from Damon Lindelof, I would have framed it and put it over my mantel as well. Good Job!

@ Mizzed #138. Yes long, but Good Job! also.

It seems that all the characters, whether they be supernatural beings like Jacob & MIB or master (but somewhat clueless) manipulators like Charles & Eloise or mere mortals, are all playing out their roles under the influence of the mysterious but basically amoral properties of the island. We may or may not get explanations and those explanations may not be real explanations at all. For example, the smoke monster is really a being that can also take on the corporeal existence of dead people (complete with their memories), who had a crazy mother and is being kept on the island because he has a bad attitude about human nature. That is an explanation? But it does exemplify what we might get by way of explanation, whether loopy science or myth or quasi-religious. That is why we have to pay attention to what GatorGal and Mizzed were saying. It's about the people, and evidently about love though I am hoping it is a little more than kissy-facey love.

In order to please the fan base, the wrap up has to be satisfying on many levels. Looking forward to seeing if they can do it. Looking good Billy Ray. Feeling good Louis.

@138 Mizzed and @159 GatorGal -- I am completely on board with both of your theories. Well done!

@86, undauntid: "I thought it was a very good sign that he didn't murder Zoe"

Lol! Yes, I think not murdering people is generally considered to be a good sign.

@93, weepict: "Charlie is very adamant that the sideways timeline is incorrect, however the sinking of the island has not let MIB loose on the world."

Or has it...? Dum dum dum!

@106, ALEX ANGEL: "I was just complaining at how they removed the scientific angle of the show and BOOM! They bring it back."

It's frankly a little bit unsettling that all they have to do is leave out the Jacob-MiB mumbo jumbo and we suddenly start calling it "scientific". Hmmm...

@116, Alaïs_Longthough: "Ha...yes, you're right; it could be a Pierre alias. ealgumby & I agreed that Weatherwax sounds incredibly artificial, like a name from a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys story."

I think she's a character in Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels.

@127, tweedle_dee: "What is it's ultimate purpose?"
Well, the Island is a bottle, right? And according to many characters on the show it is trying to tell us something, so it has a message. So the Island is a message in a bottle. There you go. Someone threw a message in a bottle in the ocean and see what happened. Don't pollute the waters of our planet people. ;) Perhaps the Island is the bottle the rafters lost (gasp!) back in Season 1-2. Oh no, Sun found that on the beach, didn't she....

@128, August Paul: "searches for magnetic monopoles may or may not have been successful--I can't remember"

Last year some scientists managed to create some condensed matter that in a lot of ways behaves as if it was a monopole, but as far as I understand it's not quite the same. However, most news items covered it as if it was.

I think Sayid "spared" Zoe so she would be able to tell Widmore that MiB has his package (and Desmond too;).

#132 "skip ahead to the rest of your post-Lost life."

This blog has been a life-saver for me. Every time I say something enthusiastic about Lost, everybody I know gets a pained look on their face and mutters how they couldn't handle watching it. Even my sweetie is not as into as I am.

I know I will survive Post-Lost. But will I be ALT-me?

anyone notice Kelvin walking on the street when Charlie drove Desmond's car into the water?

Wow a soap opera episode about Richard gets 500 posts but probably one of the best episodes that actually explains what's been going on all season is just dragging along. Sheesh

@139. Mizzed
"I think the sideways world exists only because Jacob did intervene in their lives, giving them the opportunity to find the Dharma or path that leads eventually to their better Sideways selves."

I agree completely. In this world, Jacob doesn't have the benefit of the island to get his people where they need to be so he does it in other ways.

@138 MIZZED:

YOU are my hero! Clarity. Logic. Believability. Love your post and your explanation. :{}

Having breezed through all the posts, I noticed nobody has mentioned the opening of the show this week...the "Eye opening" shot. There was no "previously on Lost" intro either. Just a thought...

I'd just like to offer something I thought of. I haven't read the very latest comments so forgive me if it has been mentioned before.

I think it's possible that there was some discussion (and possibly more) between Desmond and the Widmore crew just before they encountered Sayid. Therefore, they were actually walking somewhere with the full intention of being "caught" - this is a good way to get Desmond to Flocke fast.

...Or maybe not on reflection :/. Other than Desmond it's assumed the Widmore crew didn't know about Sayid's presence. Plus surely they wouldn't risk "sacrificing" their lives and instead would just send Desmond without the bodyguards?

Who knows? It's rarely simple but sometimes it's also over-analysed. :P

At first I thought the fund-raising event was simply a plot to get Eloise, Charlie, Des, Daniel and Penny in the same story line. But once again, there is a "list". I wonder if we'll ever see who Eloise has invited to her party.

And, yes, Mac....who indeed is Penny's mother? It seems too late to introduce yet another new character, so it must be someone we already know. Or not!

@ ALEX ANGEL #175 I noticed the few postings as well but thought that was because this episode had so much to ponder. The Richard episode did not and so people could expound on all sorts of things about Jacob and MIB. Actually, it was for me more about Jacob and MIB than about Richard.

I'm wondering if Christians body was on the second 815 it wound have crashed like the first time.

Also: Who was responcible for the loss of his body? Sounds like something Widmore would pull.

@162 GatorGal announced:

>They [D&C] are sitting down with Jimmy Kimmel for an hour long post-show special, "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to Lost." Lots of castmembers will be stopping by to chat too, so this is not to be missed.It will air following the last Lost episode (sigh) on 5/23.

Really? A JKL on a Sunday night?

@138, Mizzed: Good attempt to form a coherent story.

"This "escape" can be seen as a physical, scientific event, or as a faith-based vision of the end of the days or apocalypse- but to a dying world, what's the difference?"

Assuming that you don't particularly look forward to the end of the world, having an actual explanation and mechanism for what will bring about this end, you can try to prevent it. Having faith in D. McD-alot might have the same positive consequence in the end, but it sure doesn't add any constructive help towards that end.

"What has been perceived as general doucheness on Jacob's part is immaterial, because there is only one positive ending. When the puzzle is solved or the black/white game completed, all the candidates who were brought to the island and suffered painful deaths will be rebooted, and allowed to go along their merry life path."

Whatever suffering you cause along the way doesn't matter, as long as the outcome is good? Yikes.

@148, "Anyone noticed that Daniel's equations had a graph with the x axis labeled "imaginary time"?
I'm not an expert, but this is a known physical concept. It has to do with all numbers having a real and imaginary part."

I didn't notice that, it went by too quickly, but I'd like to see a screen cap. Anyway, you're mixing up a couple of things here. Yes, mathematically there are so-called complex numbers, which have as you say a real and imaginary part, and they are heavily used in physics, although usually not in any direct connection with time. If I remember correctly, but it has been some years, there is a technique to compute something in quantum field theory where it is just convenient to look at your problem as if time was described by these imaginary numbers (which is just a big misnomer) and then the problem is easier to solve. I believe it's called "Wick rotation".

@156, GatorGal: "And the actor that plays BERNARD is in Flash Forward too, I believe."

Is he? I don't remember seeing him on Flash Forward. What role does he play?

@157, pebspostal: "All this brain power out there and we still are no closer than we were six years ago."

Closer to what? We know a lot more of the story of Lost now than we did six years ago. Or was there anyone six years ago who predicted the story of the past five and a half seasons with even the tiniest speck of reasonable accuracy?

"I'm enjoying August weather in April."

August Paul weather?

@159, GatorGal, re: Lost is about Love.

Doesn't all this talk about how Lost is about love sound very, I don't know, diminishing to the story? It's about the characters and obviously a very important part of human life --- hence also of the characters' life--- is love, but to boil the show down to saying it is "about love" as if that is in any way meaningful beyond the obvious and cliche distracts and takes away from instead of adds to the story. Imho.

@163, ALEX ANGEL: "I GOT IT!"

Don't worry. Modern medicine can cure a lot.

@169, August Paul: "@ GatorGal #159. If I had thought of that and then received that note from Damon Lindelof, I would have framed it and put it over my mantel as well. Good Job!"

So is GatorGal then the eponymous Kristin from "E!'s Watch with Kristin"?

@174, jiggy: "anyone notice Kelvin walking on the street when Charlie drove Desmond's car into the water?"

Nope. Well, at least I didn't. And no one on Lostpedia seems to have noticed him (there's nothing on Kelvin's page). Good catch if he's really there. I guess we need some screen shots.

@175, ALEX ANGEL: "Wow a soap opera episode about Richard gets 500 posts but probably one of the best episodes that actually explains what's been going on all season is just dragging along. Sheesh"

Perhaps it's just that: Too much explanation, too few questions left... ... ... Nah... this is still Lost we're talking about.

@178, Three Men and a Baby (I counted Hugo twice): "Having breezed through all the posts, I noticed nobody has mentioned the opening of the show this week...the "Eye opening" shot. There was no "previously on Lost" intro either. Just a thought..."

Did we ever figure out if there was any deeper meaning to all these eye openers? (Yes, I realized what I just wrote.)

***

Good thing about the `lack' of comments is that at least I managed to catch up with all of them within two days. :)

Did anyone else think it weird that Desmond met Penny in the alt timeline while she was running stairs in a stadium like the same scene that Jack found Desmondo in his first encounter with him?

Why the parallel with different characters? Are the people in the alt and "real" timeline somehow one step out of whack from "reality" whatever that turns out to be?

Did anyone else catch the fact that Charlie when describing his moments on the Oceanic flight said that he saw his "love" and first described Kate with the Marshall and then switched to describing Claire as his "love"...was that a mistake or something more?

No clue....anyone?

#185. Posted by: KPMCC
Maybe I take things a face value that I should not but, when I heard Charlie first describe Kate and the marshall and then refer to Claire as his love, it seemed to me that the marshall was the important part of what he was describing not Kate. It really wasn't her that she noticed, it could have been any person who was with the marshall. He was just saying what prompted him to try to swallow the heroin.

oops...that should be "at face value" and "that HE noticed" Too early in the morning, need more caffine

Lost Untangled was particularly funny this week (but I might think that every week): http://tinyurl.com/ybd5kw5

With a cameo by dr. Chang! (The human one, not the puppet.)

188. Posted by: Plain Simple

>Lost Untangled was particularly funny this week (but I might think that every week): http://tinyurl.com/ybd5kw5

>With a cameo by dr. Chang! (The human one, not the puppet.)

They just keep getting better and better, don't they? Touches I loved:

o The 'Smokey' noises preceding the entrance of real-Dr. Chang at the end - and his expressions

o The fan picture of a young Bill Gates on the wall

o PuppetChang's fixation on Kate. Sign me up as a ppchater.

o The coils in the bakground with all the stray metal objects 'glued' to them

o Extending theMarbleMouthed pronunciation of "Charles Widmore" to to "Eloise Widmore" as well.

@184/ Plain Simple and @148:

For Screen cap of Daniel's journal page
and comparison with Minkowski diagram,
click on my name below.

#169. August Paul I am hoping it is a little more than kissy-facey love.

There is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his brother.

There's going to be tears a-plenty.

Plain Simple & Cecil Rose: I agree, LOST Untangled is hilarious. I especially love the marblemouthed "Charles Widmore".

@183 CECIL:

Yep. It was reported as being scheduled for Sunday, May 23. A special post-show following the LOST finale which is scheduled for Sunday, May 23. So, I guess we'll have an episode on Tues, May 18 then the 2-hour finale on Sunday night. Probably trying to squeeze it in for sweeps is my guess....

@184 PLAIN SIMPLE:

I don't watch FF but could have sworn I saw the actor who plays Bernard on a promo clip for the show. And I've also been seeing lots of those L'Oreal hair care commericals with Evangeline Lilly.

And sadly, no, I am NOT Kristen from E! I cut and pasted HER WORDS here and feel bad that I did not make that more clear. It was Kristen (and NOT me) that got that response from Damon. Alas, no framed email over my mantle. Sigh. Was just passing along info from Kristen's scoop.

click on my name below.
#190. Posted by: welh

Nice site Wehl, Thanks for the comparison. As if I could read them....But it does loom the same!

I found this brief but compelling theory over at Dark UFO:

http://bit.ly/d24JQs

@194/berkyo

In my browser, if you click on the image
it will open up larger in a new window.

When Desmond was strapped to that chair, all I could think of was Jacob sitting in his chair in the cabin, saying "Help Me"

I think these two comments go together well:

#184. Plain Simple: "Whatever suffering you cause along the way doesn't matter, as long as the outcome is good? Yikes."

Exactly. In other words, the end justifies the means? No. You've put your finger on what bothers me about that whole idea.

#191. undauntid: "There is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his brother":

Certainly a compelling idea...such as Charlie's death. Is it still true if there's no choice involved, i.e., the character is sacrificed rather than chooses to sacrifice? I'm going to sound like a picky editor here, but note the difference in tenses between those two phrases.

*Jacob* choosing candidates (& let's not forget about the redshirts, who aren't candidates yet are dragged along for the ride) to come to the island to be sacrificed in his as-yet-unknown game/plan is entirely different than *candidates* (or simply castaways, if they're not on the Chosen List) choosing to sacrifice themselves so that their loved ones, or fellow castaways, or who/whatever, can be saved.

Did anyone notice if there were any “fooming” noises when Desmond received the dose of EM and entered sideways world consciousness? I definitely remember airplane jet engine noises (NOT smokey noises) when Desmond foomed to Penny after Desmond left with Sayid. Adds to my theory in #56 that decisions that Desmond is making now on the island is impacting the outcome in swWorld.

Screen cap if Scales in Widmore's office if you click the name below.

Maybe all of the cognitive dissonance surrounding the off-island characters is simply reminiscent of a typical dream-state: familiar people that are out of place.

I guess we wake up to the reality in the next few episodes!

i must admit to being rather surprised at the amount of comments posted for what i considered a great episode,
we normally see many more comments after a new epi.,
maybe some fans dont like the way the story is unfolding or feel that this episode lacked something,
i loved this one as i thought it brought some clarity to the whole side-flash thing.

@193, GatorGal: "And sadly, no, I am NOT Kristen from E! I cut and pasted HER WORDS here and feel bad that I did not make that more clear."

Don't worry, that was what I thought initially, but then August Paul's response made me reconsider. Since I only joined this blog last season it might have been common knowledge from season's past. ;)

Personally, my favourite part of the show was Des waking up and asking where he was, and that slight tremble in his lip when he found out. You just knew he wasn't going to take it well once that happened :-)

FWIW, I don't think we'll get many answers before the show finishes. Sure, they'll wrap up some of the big questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the 'questions' that have come up will remain unanswered. After all, you could argue that one of Lost's main strengths is that it gets people talking. Why kill off all the discussion and pontification once the finale airs?

I - sadly? - can't see a more fitting end than a thousand or so threads of the story left hanging for the fans to go over (and over, and over) and continue discussing. Plus - the story is so 'wide' that it will be a push to neatly tie up all the loose ends with the number of episodes they have left...

@ GatorGal #193. Apologies for not reading your post more carefully. My mistake. You were completely clear. I feel bad. You still get good marks for posting it here. I like it very much. I guess I just got swept away.

@ Plain Simple #202. Apologies to you for the confusion. While I made my first post to this blog over the picture on the abbot's desk (was that season 2?) I didn't go into overload until this season. One of the benefits (for me, not necessarily for this blog) of being retired.

A 'timely' article!

http://tinyurl.com/yeasoph

@206 mtncbn:

In the words of the late, great Jack Smith, "I counterpredict".

I'd love to see (unfortunately late, also) Richard Feynman sink his metaphorical teeth into the phenomenon, which I'm willing to go out on a limb and predict does not indicate any of the phenomena speculated on.

Let me know if youfind a citation in a scientific, as opposed to popular press, forum, as i'd love to read it. I'll be looking too.

@203, Stimps: "After all, you could argue that one of Lost's main strengths is that it gets people talking. Why kill off all the discussion and pontification once the finale airs?"

If the appeal of a mystery only hinges on it's answer being unknown and not on any deeper meaning, doesn't that basically say we've been staring at an empty box all this time?

@205, August Paul: Apologies, though unnecessary, accepted. Thanks.

@206, mtncbn: "A 'timely' article!"

What a lousy article. It's all over the place and manages to mix some vague references to real science with lots of unconfirmed speculation, science fiction stories, and outrageous mystification of science ("it's nearly impossible to understand if your last name isn't Einstein"; I guess I should be glad he put in the "nearly"). Please, do not encourage us to try and understand the world around us and instead engage in hero worship. So much easier, right? And did we actually learn something about the research that was done and which supposedly has these big implications....? A missed opportunity.

Hehe, I was just watching Stargate Universe, and in the preview for next week some guy is standing in an environment that could be right out of Lost saying "I believe we were brought here for a reason." Sounds familiar?

@208 Plain Simple - Lousy article

I agree, just thought it was fun. @207 Cecil had a much more productive response, and a direction for further research.

Preview still no worky.

HEY LOSTIES,
SINCE THE SHOW WILL BE OVER SOON MAYBE WE SHOULD TAKE UP A BLOG FOR FLASHFORWARD HERE (ON FILMFODDER)....
THE SHOW IS GOOD SO MAYBE IT WILL HELP US NOT BE SAD MISSING LOST.

@184. Plain Simple: "Whatever suffering you cause along the way doesn't matter, as long as the outcome is good? Yikes."

@198/Alais: "Exactly. In other words, the end justifies the means? No. You've put your finger on what bothers me about that whole idea."

I understand both of your points, but the alternative in Lost is...the end of the world. While Jacob's acts may be seen as morally gray, that same act of bringing people to the island with the end game of saving the world is at least morally defensible.

Dogen's sacrifice and story is a good example- in the alt-world, which I believe will prove to be the 'real" world at the end of the series, he is shown with his son, living the life he has "earned".

Early in the series, multiple peole theorized that the island was purgatory. It looks now like that theory was right allegorically, but wrong literally.

The flashbacks were their original, messed up life, the plane crash their symbolic death (but not actual death- sorry, welh), the events on the island (sometimes tragic and cruel) their penance, leading to sacrifice, redemption and spiritual rebirth (or better yet, awakening, hence the repetitive opening of the eyes in so many episodes) in the sideways world.

~~SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT~~

For those who enjoy analyzing episode titles, here are those remaining:

12. Everybody Loves Hugo
13. The Last Recruit
14. The Candidate
15. Across the Sea
16. What They Died For
17 & 18. The End

~~END SPOILER ALERT END SPOILER ALERT~~

I Googled Sweetzer and Melrose in LA to see if I could "see" the coffee shop mentioned by Penny. Interesting results. Found a YouTube video of a psychic looking for the ghost of Orson Wells at a pastry/coffee shop at that location. The psychic claimed there was no ghost of Orson Wells, but he did pick up on a female ghost lurking at a table near the front window! Wonder if this was inspiration for our Lost writers?

@Mizzed 138 & 212...This is hands down the best theory that I've read to date!

@212/Mizzed - I guess the problem I have, other than just the "ends justify the means" feel of things, is that not all the participants seem to understand, concur with, or even realize their "sacrifice." How many red shirts have their been? Was Frogurt's sacrifice integral to saving the universe? Do you think he knew, or even cared?

What if Jacob whimsically just decided that all Filmfodder Lost bloggers must all die today, so that some other few might be able to see the season finale ... but it's gonna be okay, because even though we'll never, ever see the final episode, at least we'll be alive in some alternate sideways universe! :)

Well now, I just feel fine and dandy about that, how bout you? ;) Oh Jacob, your cleverness never ceases to amaze me!

Sorry, but the whole deal really rubs me the wrong way ...

@212, Mizzed: "I understand both of your points, but the alternative in Lost is...the end of the world."

The alternative in Lost is... we don't know. With all the manipulating and lying ---or at least not telling the whole truth--- going on, who knows what action or lack of action will have what consequences? Jacob (or any of the other manipulators) hasn't even given the Losties any choice in whether or not they want to prevent the end of the world, if that's really what is coming. I'm sure that out of almost 7 billion people on the world, he would find a handful that are willing to prevent the end of the world. He could ask Buffy. ;)

#212, Mizzed: "I understand both of your points, but the alternative in Lost is...the end of the world."

I started wondering about that earlier this morning. How do we know that the alternative is the end of the world? Is it because of the Valenzetti equation? Is that canon? I don't think it was ever mentioned in the context of the episodes themselves. In any case, even if it is canon, this is something Dharma was working on, no? Based on all of the experiments they were conducting, I wouldn't put much stock in a claim by them that this equation needs to be changed to prevent the end of the world.

Aside from the Valenzetti equation, the only other hints at "the end of the world" have come from those paragons of truth, Eloise Hawking & Charles Widmore, w/their comments of "God help us all" & "Everything you know & love will cease to exist." Those seem to be more like statements designed to cause guilt & fear, which will in turn encourage the Losties to do what Eloise & Charles want.

While the drama of "the end of the world" is certainly guaranteed to catch the attention of the viewers, it doesn't seem to me to have been proven to be the alternate that Jacob, Charles, Eloise, etc., etc., are working to prevent. Based on what we've seen over the last five-plus years, I'd be a lot more inclined to say that Jacob, Charles, Eloise, etc., etc., have their own agenda(s) that they've working to promote, all together or singly.

@216,217,218:

Hey, three against one! Is that fair??!! (just kidding....)

Since I would bet my house that Lost will not end in the destruction of the world, I think Jacob's motivations and Hawking and Widmore's truthfulness re: MIB's threat and world destruction will ultimately have to be left up to viewer interpretation.

After several years of successfully building the habit in us to question everything, TPTB have increasingly been more and more open about revealing the cards in their hand, starting with the revelation of the Jacob/MIB relationship at end of last season.

It's ironic in some ways that as they open up the story and make the plot more transparent, they bump up against a certain sense of mistrust in their most loyal fan base- mistrust they helped create in earlier seasons.

With only a few episodes left, (IMO) they want us to follow them down their thematic roads of sacrifice, redemption, love, and the tight interpersonal connections we develop that are capable of transcending even death, time loops and world shifts.

As always, I remain open to the writers proving me wrong. But with so little time left, I will be very surprised if they take us down a different path, one that reveals major duplicity and scheming (or as Mac, would say, doucheness) on the part of Widmore and Hawking, let alone Jacob.

HEA Haiku:

Grand Pa Chaz Huge Spaz.
Pace Needs A BaBy SitTer.
DesMond Loves PenNy.

@210, mtncbn: "I agree, just thought it was fun. @207 Cecil had a much more productive response, and a direction for further research."

Yeah, I know, I'm sorry. Didn't want to come across as grumpy as I did, but these kind of articles really piss me off. A constant bombardment with bs like this helps bring about a completely skewed view of what science really is in the general public, which is a very dangerous development in societies as infused with science and technology as ours.

And on top of that, I wrote my reply quickly during a commercial break while watching SGU. Not an excuse, but a reason for why I wasn't more constructive.

Let me make it up to you:

Quite good popular story about this from the BBC: tinyurl.com/ybjc2ff

Popular discussion about this subject on a science podcast (around 34 minutes in) : tinyurl.com/yd8djdk

The article in Nature it's all about (even without access you can still read the abstract): tinyurl.com/y97yn2c

A freely accessible news item by Nature: tinyurl.com/yjdkcse

Two columns from Nature in response to the research (unfortunately not freely accessible): tinyurl.com/y2hu83q and tinyurl.com/y6j6s7k

A list of freely accessible pre-prints (i.e. papers before they are peer-reviewed, so no direct quality control) by A.N. Cleland, the scientist mentioned in the Fox and BBC articles: tinyurl.com/y69jhu5

I've only read the BBC article, listened to the podcast, and browsed through the rest, but this is a much more solid list of articles to read up on this research if you're interested in it. You'll notice how 99.5% of the Fox article has absolutely nothing to do with the actual research. Like I said, a missed opportunity.

But you were right to call me out on my grumpiness and lack of constructive feedback. Thanks.

@218, Alaïs_Longthought: "Is it because of the Valenzetti equation? Is that canon? I don't think it was ever mentioned in the context of the episodes themselves."

I'm pretty sure that was never mentioned on the show.

@221, @218, regarding Valenzetti and canon:

Damon Lindelof: I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzetti equation and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff canon to the show. Where there’d have to be wiggle room is the Rachel Blake story where she’s in the real world, in the outside world as we define it, the show Lost might be defined in an entirely different outside world so we can’t vouch for the overall fit ability and veracity of everything that Rachel was doing. But we can say that all the factoids that she was uncovering were vetted, in fact many of them were written by us personally so they are canon."

D&C have referenced the Valenzetti Equation multiple times in other interviews relating to the "Numbers", so I believe at least in the creators' minds, they have affirmed that the Dharma Initiative was founded to try and prevent this end of the world scenario.

In a simplistic "This is the House that Jack built" kind of way, so if no Valenzetti then no Dharma then no Des pushing the button then no Oceanic crash then the final six candidates don't come to the island then the world doesn't get saved.

#196. Posted by: welh

LOL
Let me rephrase that...."as if I could understand them."
but thanks anyway.

And looming as important to the plot they might be, I meant to write "Look the same."

MtnCbn and Cecil and others
you may have seen this already. It's the group that Cleland works with. Lots of un-or is it in-decipherable publications......Maybe there is something you can understand.
http://www.physics.ucsb.edu/~clelandgroup/

And I just noticed the original source of the first article on quantum time travel. Fox News - what do you expect?

Just re watched the epi. Has anyone posted about Desmond's knowledge after he shakes Penny's hand? I think he realizes that he is doing what he did after the swan implosion. swDes knows about the island and vice versa. How else do we explain his wanting to see the 815 manifest? Would you assume that everyone on a plane was experiencing what you and one other passenger experienced? Faraday was not on the plane so why else would swDes make that connection? and maybe that's why he is going along with Widmore, because either way he is connected to Penny.

@212/Mizzed
no offense taken . . .

at the very least, we are entitled to a real concrete explanation of what the Big Premise of the island was . . . and at this point, the after life is the best rug to sweep the unanswered questions under.

@223/ berkyo:

The only non-expert difference I see between the diagrams is that Daniel has
an arc between one point on Real Time line to another point on the Real Space Imaginary Time line, which he called "invariance." What is odd he is not plotting variable points on the graph itself, but tying two points on the different data axis.

@221 Plain Simple
Thank you for doing the research. Much more informative articles. Did you read the comments at tinyurl.com/yjdkcse, the first comment by Planx Constant lambasts this article much as your response to Fox article :>
I think we can add Plain Simple to our list of rocket scientists onboard on this blog.

@223 berkyo - yes, always good to go directly to the source. The research and publications pages were informative.

@221 Plain Simple:

Thanks for all the citations. Very interesting read. I notice that the "superposition" of states seems to be by inference from measurements, rather than direct observation. This seems strange given the amount of space devoted to 'a quantum device bi enough to see'. So we get to movies of the paddle simmultaneously waving and not waving.

I also wonder what a 'quantum of electical energy' introduced into the system is. Fancy way of speaking og a single electron? Or is there a smaller 'quantum of energy'.

@222, Mizzed: If the motivation of a key player in the story (Dharma) is only revealed via additional material, i.e. not on the show itself, that feels a bit like cheating, doesn't it? Not sure how I feel about that... not that it matters how I feel about it. But as far as I'm concerned, what we have been able to piece together from the show, Dharma was there to study the special properties of the Island.

@228, mtncbn: "Did you read the comments at tinyurl.com/yjdkcse, the first comment by Planx Constant lambasts this article much as your response to Fox article :>"

I had not read the article itself (like I said in my previous post, I only browsed through most of them, didn't have the time to read them yet), but now that I did read that particular article and the comment by Planx Constant I do agree with the commenter up to some level, but whatever the shortcomings of the Nature column might be, it nowhere comes close to the Fox article (luckily! I would start buying into end-of-the-world prophecies once the day comes along that Fox has better science than Nature). To quickly address some of the commenter's complaints: First of all, quantum mechanics is at its core a mathematical theory. You can throw words about all day long, but you won't really get a grasp of what's going on until you do the math. But we can try to give good approximations of what's going on in words, it would be too much to ask from people to get read up on a couple of years worth of math before diving into an article like that. So, I have no problem at all with popularizing science, on the contrary, but writer and readers alike should be very aware that you can't take an article like this as a source for specific scientific predictions. One of the things that scientists, and other people as well for that matter, like to do in everyday speech, is personify things: the electron chooses a state, evolution designs species, the Island isn't done with you, etc. That doesn't mean we really think that electrons or evolution (or Islands for that matter) are active agents with some conscious choice, it's just a matter of making an explanation more accessible. It's a figure of speech. Second, the sentence about the electrical circuit obeying the laws of quantum mechanics stood out as an odd sentence to me as well, since, as far as we know, everything obeys the laws of QM, so it's odd to single a specific thing out. It's like saying, I went for groceries to that shop which obeys the laws of gravity. I think the commenter Planx Constant said it well, when he said that probably the author meant to say that "some aspect of the circuit that exploits quantum indeterminacy".
Third, it would have been great if they could have given more explanation about what role the superconductivity plays and how the experiment was really designed. I agree that articles like this often tend to focus too much on the "wonderful weirdness" to a point where the rest of the reporting suffers. But, luckily not to the ridiculous degree as in the Fox article. :)

"I think we can add Plain Simple to our list of rocket scientists onboard on this blog."

If your aim is to create a grossly inaccurate list, you definitely should. ;)

@229, Cecil: "I notice that the "superposition" of states seems to be by inference from measurements, rather than direct observation. This seems strange given the amount of space devoted to 'a quantum device bi enough to see'. "

It's the size that matters, not the fact that it is visible by the naked eye. Iirc the previous record for getting an object in a state like this was 60 atoms, now it's so big you can see it, so that must be an improvement of about 23 orders of magnitude in terms of numbers of atoms I guess (a "1" with 23 zeroes). I would like to know a bit more about how they did the measurements without disturbing the state of the system too much. Perhaps if I have some more time, I'll look into that.

"I also wonder what a 'quantum of electical energy' introduced into the system is. Fancy way of speaking og a single electron? Or is there a smaller 'quantum of energy'."

Are you referring to the quote from the BBC article: "If just one quantum of energy is then carefully put back in a certain way, the atom can be said to be in two states at the same time: a superposition of states." ?

Atoms have discrete energy levels, which means that you can only bring an atom in a higher energy state by supplying exactly the amount to bridge the gap between one level and the next. Similarly, when an atom goes down in energy, it can only do so in very specific steps and hence the light that is send out in the process will have a very specific color (the energy of light is related to its color). This is the principle by which lasers work: A cascade is created of atoms going down in energy by a very specific amount (the same for each atom, because all the atoms are of the same element) and so all these atoms will send out light with exactly the same color.

Excellent recap as usual Mac.
I want to say that I think the term "leakage" is a brilliant term. You used it last week's recap, and while watching this week's episode with Des, that term popped into my mind a couple of times to explain the blending of the two timelines.

are ellie's "rules" and spirit Jacob/Aaron's rules the same?

Charlie to Desmond: I wasn't trying to kill you, I was just trying to show you something.

Desmond regarding the flight manifest: I just need to show them something.

How's he going to give them all a revelatory, near death experience with so few episodes left?

@Mizzed, Plain Simple, berkyo, Cecil, mtncbn, wehl, ealgumby

Geesh! I would love to know your professions/degrees. With all of your physics discussions, you all are making me realize how lacking my fine arts/social services degrees were in science electives. I guess I should've taken that physics elective after all! Then I may have been able to contribute. ;-)

Ack has a link posted on her site to an article in NY magazine. Here's what she says...

**************************************
Does your brain still hurt after Tuesday’s episode of Lost? Do you lack the time/energy to read every blog post about it to at least SORT of understand what it all means?

Never fear my friends, I have a solution.

Vulture has compiled a list of TONS of cool theories from all over the internet.

I feel like Lost fans’ collective IQ has got to be above average after reading some of those things. I love it.

***************************************

She's right. It's a cool article and worth the read. One of the theories the NY magazine article mentions is penned by none other than our beloved Mac! Kudos, Mac!!

As always Ack is at www.theackattack.net

#234. Posted by: lost2theworld
I have a BA in liberal arts. And I know how to Google. I know nothing about QM. LOL

@Grace #214. I tried to find the intersection of N.Sweetzer & Melrose on Google Earth and it had no indication of a coffee shop on that corner, but two blocks away on Melrose, the V cafe has recently opened. Hmmm.

I learned my QM from one of the masters many, many years ago. Quantum entanglement is beyond me. I don't even try. But when it comes to entertainment, I don't place many demands on scientific illumination. To all but its practitioners, modern physics is baffling and boring. Steven Hawking probably does the best job of trying to make it accessible to classics scholars.

Apologies, Stephen Hawking, it's past my bedtime.

Degrees in Aerospace Engineering, Data Processing, Systems mamangement - lifelong love of physics but no dgreees there. My roommate was a physics major, but he ended up a dentist .

Read every layman-language thing Richard Feynman wrote, big fan of all the Los Alamos guys and all astronomers.

Obviously no degrees or courses even in typing.

Make that "Systems Management" above.

For those that care, we finally get a new "House" ep tomorrow, with a title familiar to "Lost" fans. Click my name to go to a preview.

#230. Plain Simple, plus numerous others in other posts (as opposed to Others' posts ; > ):

Re the scientific validity, or lack thereof:

If I can be forgiven a digression from specifically LOST-related info, the lack of ability of the average person to understand, even in a basic way, the validity of anything other than basic general information w/which s/he reads is disturbing. This is something us nerdy librarians-to-be spend a lot of time talking about—these days doing a search for information generally means using a giant search engine such as Google, Bing, etc., reading the first half-dozen results, & thinking that that's that. There's no questioning of possible agendas of the person/organization promoting that information, no wondering why the first dozen or so results say the same thing (but if one was to trace all those results they often all stem from just one source), no interest in looking at other points of view. Rather like baby birds, beaks are opened, food is plopped in, & down the hatch it goes, w/no further thought. If one is interested in nothing much more complex than Jessica Simpson's views of beauty, it's not a big deal, but when it comes to anything that requires more than a little thought & comprehension, it becomes quite troubling, as w/these science-related articles. How many people are going to see the Fox News piece as opposed to the Nature piece? And how many people are going to look no further than the Fox News piece & think they understand?

Well,I say hurrah for nerdy librarians, and keep pushing people to research well.

I need help with my memory.... Did Desmond know that Charles Widmore lived on the Island at one point in time? I guess Des knew that the freighter folks were sent by Widmore, right? But did he ever find out how entwined Widmore is in the Island? I guess I feel like Des should have been more shocked when Widmore told him that he brought him back to the Island. I would have asked more important questions than, "Where's Penny?"

I think I'd like to go
back home
And take it easy
There's a woman that
I'd like to get to know
Living there

Everybody seems to wonder
What it's like down here
I gotta get away
from this day-to-day
running around,
Everybody knows
this is nowhere.

Everybody, everybody knows
Everybody knows.

Every time I think about
back home
It's cool and breezy
I wish that I could be there
right now
Just passing time.

Everybody seems to wonder
What it's like down here
I gotta get away
from this day-to-day
running around,
Everybody knows
this is nowhere.

Everybody, everybody knows
Everybody knows.

You all everybody, you all everybody knows
You all everybody knows.

#243. Cecil: Thanks! Or as the old Bartles & Jaymes commercials would say, "Thank yew for yer support." ; )

#246. ransomjackson: Hey! I think you've got the makings of a hit there... ; )

@246 ransomjackson

TOOOO funny!

There are such well-educated people on this blog!

@Alais #242

I worked with a high school librarian several years ago who made it her mission to get teenagers to question their sources. She would lecture endlessly on the evils of Wikipedia. Things may have improved with Wikipedia, but I know back in the day she would not let students near it.

I am amazed by the adults that don't consider their sources. I was having a discussion over the weekend about health care and someone was using information obtained from Michael Moore's movie "Sicko" to justify their opinion. I had a davidrh moment! ;-) I'm not saying that there is no good information in Michael Moore movies, but if this is your primary source of information and you take it as the gospel, I'm very worried.

@ 247 Alaïs_Longthought posted, "Hey! I think you've got the makings of a hit there..."

Yeah, I think it's pretty good too. I just need a junkie Hobbit bass player to round out my band Steering Column and I'll be gtg.

Woo Hoo! IITY?

@230 Alaïs_Longthought

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only person on this planet that feels that way. I hasn't watched Fox for ages. I always get very angry "example" when they advertise they have fair news.

p.s. anybody got a good use for used cat hair. I have a house full I will donate for free.

#249. lost2theworld: Wikipedia:

My brother likes to say he spells knowledge "W-i-k-i..." ; > Fortunately, he's just kidding.

The aspect of librarianship I'd like to work in is information literacy...teaching college kids to learn how to find information & evaluate it for validity. It's probably obvious I feel strongly about the subject, & I like teaching at the college level (I was one of those dreaded TAs for public squeaking...err, public speaking...when I earned my first master's). If anyone is living in western NY & hears of a job like that, please let me know! : )

#250. ransomjackson: Steering Column:

You guys could start out w/an album (oops, showing my age) of covers...

Drive
Driver's Seat
Baby You Can Drive My Car
I Can't Drive 55
Little Deuce Coupe
Dead Man's Curve
Fast Car
Hot Rod Lincoln
Little Red Corvette
Low Rider

#251. SamFin: Used Cat Hair:

Hmmm...wouldn't that be an interesting name for a band? ; >

@252 Alaïs_Longthought:

Let's not forget:

Mustang Sally
Fun, Fun, Fun ('Til Her Daddy Takes her T'Bird Away)
One Piece at a Time
The Caddie vs the Nash Rambler
(OK, kiddies, who recognizes the latter - or the Studebaker, for that atter)

What the heck is everybody talking about? I'm lost enough as it is.

Why isn't it tomorrow already? Need. New. Episode. Someone spin the FDW!!

Do you all watch these?
They really are pretty funny.

copy this to your URL or click my name

http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/lost-untangled/ThemeGallery/375500?playlistId=180098&clipId=257453

@230 Alaïs_Longthought
and @ #251. Posted by: SamFin
"Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only person on this planet that feels that way. I hasn't watched Fox for ages. I always get very angry "example" when they advertise they have fair news."

Please stick to LOST and keep your lame A%&(*^*% polital views to yourself. This is a lost blog period.

@257 Hurleys' Beard:

Softly, softly catchee monkey.

This blog has a long and honored tradition of digressions, especially as we near a new ep, and silliness as well. Some of our most memorable moments, even.

#257. Hurley's Beard:

You might want to carefully read what I wrote before you slam me...I responded to Plain Simple's (& others') posts, in which Fox News & Nature magazine were referenced. As such, in my post, I used Fox News as an example of a general news organization, many of which (not just Fox News) have difficulty in getting scientific details correct in their news stories. I contrasted that w/Nature magazine, which is a more specialized science magazine that can be expected (although unfortunately does not always) present a scientific story correctly. I finished by expressing concern over the fact that someone who reads a scientific story in a general news forum, especially a story that is of a high level such as quantum anything, will not understand what the topic is really about, but will think that s/he does & not look any further. I fail to see how this expresses a political viewpoint in any way, unless expressing a wish for people to be better educated is now a political issue.

@257/Hurley's Beard - "Please stick to LOST and keep your lame A%&(*^*% polital views to yourself. This is a lost blog period."

Let’s see just how fair and balanced I can be about this …

So the premise is that all posts here should only be about ”Lost” … okay, we’ve heard this complaint before, and I don’t think it’s completely invalid, within reason. A little silliness now and again does no harm, IMO, but there have been a few grumpy gus groans about such “pointless” frivolity in the past, so being touchy about such things is not without precedent. Fine, grant you that.

Still … couldn’t that point have been made without reference to politics? Oh wait, that would be “polits” apparently, but I digress. I mean, couldn’t you have said simply “Please stick to Lost discussions” or something of that nature? By mentioning politics, you surely must have realized you were, yourself, bringing political opinion to bear … if you were truly so interested in being politically disinterested, you would’ve kept your commentary limited to “Lost,” right?

Irrelevant though … “lame A%&(*^*%” pretty much cements your intent, doesn’t it. So we’ve established that you hold an adverse political view to that espoused rather tangentially by SamFin earlier, and you’ve been a tad more demonstrative in your opposition to said ideology. One might argue that using such inflammatory language might incite equally incendiary rebuttals, and that your response was hardly in keeping with your original “Lost-only” premise. I would be one of those suggesting that is the case … you don’t REALLY care about keeping commentary here restricted to “Lost” at all … you just don’t want to hear any words you might find offensive to your tender politically sensitive ears, right?

But let me build my case further …

So it’s all JUST about “Lost” right? Hmm … your own posts betray you …

Let’s see, S6E4 “The Substitute” post #224 – “Thank you for thumbs up on my new screen name. I was going a ‘steve’ for the last two seasons, and the first two episodes of this season, but I noticed that someone else named ‘Steve’ (Capitol S) was also posting.”

Well, it is about the blog, which is about Lost-related topics, and Steve, you changed your handle to something Lost-related … but is this really JUST about Lost? Frankly, I couldn’t possibly care less why you changed your screen name … seems pretty off-topic to me. Maybe, someone like you, should’ve jumped on you for wasting our precious time with your selfish digression. Except such a person … and oh, we have seen them … wouldn’t actually BE like you at all, because this comment had nothing to do with politics, right?

S6E5 “Lighthouse” post #238 – “The question is Why
Did the chicken cross the road?
Because it was Lost! I thought it was because it was stapled to the duck !”

I don’t know, Steve, pretty questionable there! I mean, it wasn’t even clever … how much more a waste of time could this post possibly have been? Seriously, keep your lame A%&(*^*% chicken jokes to yourself!

S6E10 “The Package” post 424 – “Which reminds me... Smoke on the Water, Fire in the Sky...And when the hatch imploded, didn't the sky turn a Deep Purple? Yes!!! I said the same thing to my wife, and she called me a nerd. Good to know I'm not alone”

No Steve, you’re NOT alone in posting completely non sequitur posts here now and then. Anyone who’s posted here for any length of time posts “irrelevant” things eventually. It’s part of this site’s charm, which you’ve commented on yourself … let me refresh your memory:

S6E4 “The Substitute” post #148 – “I also agree that LOST is much better because of this arena for thoughts. something I have looked forward to and will miss dearly in June.”

Remember that? Are those among us who might let slip a non-Lost opinion or two excluded from this blog community you claim will be so missed? I also find it interesting you didn’t jump on lost2theworld for commenting about Michael Moore’s asininity … wasn’t that expression of political opinion as well? I see, that was the “correct” political opinion though, right? Not really selling your “side” as being receptive to expression of different opinions, are you Steve? One could successfully argue you’re doing your ideological fellows a great disservice by so flagrantly displaying your inherent intolerance … or is that perhaps perceived of as a good thing? Maybe you should decide …

I complained about just this kind of nonsense earlier, and was made a target for doing so … this is EXACTLY the kind of “there is only one acceptable view” hive-mentality I was railing against. Thanks for making my point.

“No thanks” for ruining my evening …

Not that you self-righteously give a hoot, but you made Alaïs_Longthought very upset with your thoughtless response to her innocent post … for that you’re on my permanent “lame A%&(*^*%” list.

GFY.

What was written on Charlie's other hand?

"Sue Toyota for defective accelerator pedal!"

Well.... It looks like I've got some catching up to do. But now that I've skimmed the last few, I'm wondering if all I'm missing is more hissy fits? Methinks I will delay....

@261 - ealgumby

That is one of the best rebuttal's I've read in a while. Well stated indeed.

#253. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 12, 2010 3:04 PM The Caddie vs the Nash Rambler
(OK, kiddies, who recognizes the latter - or the Studebaker, for that atter)

Sadly I not only recognize it...I still know all the words! My Dad was a Rambler man until they quit making them :)

I was going to relate the "sunken Lost" to the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, but since I got most of my facts from "My Weekly Reader", I'm just a bit hesitant now . . .

Late to the game this week. First off, GRAA, Mac!

@100 Cecil. Thanks for the clarification on Keamy not saying "on the island" last week (and much belated birthday wishes).

I've been having terrible nightmares that FlashForward is really Lost 2.0 and will be a continuation of the story. I know, irrational. All the talk about Dominic Monaghan's acting got me thinking.

Really felt like a Bizarro World episode in the alt timeline. What's next, a Fusilli Jack episode?

@153 Skipper mentions Desmond having a wedding band in LAX but not in this epi. If true, either a production error or a significant change that occurred within the alt timeline.

Where was Charlie running off to in the alt timeline? Looking for Claire?

This week did feel like a love conquers all episode. Perhaps that's not the main or only theme of the show, but I do think the Sun/Jin love story will be important in driving the story toward its conclusion. The writers must be saving their long-awaited reunion for something big.

Charlie speaks of consciousness-altering love. Interesting word choice spoken to a consciousness time traveler.

Long post alert...

Daniel is probably the smartest character on the show, so when he suggests that the alt world was not supposed to be their life, it seems like something to take seriously. Trying to pull together a theory here; thanks to the following for inspiration:

#9. Posted by: l0stb0y
I believe this episode has clearly shown that the so-called Alt-timeline is, indeed, the end result of the efforts on the island...events on the island as being influential in the rendering of their final chapter

#39. Posted by: lost2theworld
What if the whole alt timeline is the *wrong* result of detonating that bomb?

#49. Posted by: Clementine
Desmond's consciousness is time-traveling between IslandDez (circa 2007) and LADez (circa 2004)...IslandDez can access "memories" of what's happening to LADez

#56. Posted by: LovingLost
I am wondering if there is a connection between Desmond 'switching directions' by going with Sayid....What if the decisions that Desmond makes now on the island (i.e., going with Sayid instead of Widmore) is affecting how the alternate reality progresses....When Desmond regained consciousness after the EM experience at Widmore's hands, he had experienced not being with Penny and being admired by Widmore – Desmond knew he had to change things on the island to go back to the original being married to Penny and his son Charlie

In this episode, it seemed to me that the alt timeline was the world in which Desmond clearly did not find happiness, even though he had fooled himself into thinking he had. (What's more important, having a comfortable life and impressing your boss or being with the woman you love?)

I agree with lost2theworld's proposal that the alt world is the "wrong" world, the evil world, as it were. Eloise looked scared when she saw Des in the alt world, like, "Oh no, he's not supposed to be here." She then goes on to tell him that what he's looking for is a violation because she doesn't want him to meet Penny. Why? Because she wants to help him find a way off the "island" of the alt world. (I'm theorizing that the alt world is a metaphoric island, where evil has found a home after Flocke escapes.) If he meets Penny in the alt world and they fall in love, he might just be comfortable enough to remain in that "wrong" world. Eloise needs him to go back to the real world so that the alt timeline doesn't become the real timeline, perhaps so he can help make sure Flocke doesn't get off our island.

I wonder whether the EM bolt on the island actually caused a change in the alt world or popped Desmond into that world (despite his brief flickering into that world in LAX).

After Des touched Penny in the alt world, he fainted and then woke up back on island after the EM bolt. That mirrored when he went off with Sayid, at which point he became zomielike on the island and flashed back to the ATL and woke up. It's almost as if he can't be consciously awake in both worlds simultaneously, some kind of mirror/leakage linkage.

Seems to me Desmond's memory flooding back after Charlie showed him his hand proves that the alt timeline occurs in a loop after the original timeframe. Same for Daniel already loving Charlotte and other similar references.

If all this holds true, Mr. and Mrs. Widmore are actually working together -- he in the real world and she in the alt world – to make sure that Flocke doesn't get off the island and the alt timeline doesn't become the real timeline.

@ 269 - Scooby-Dude I like. Nice summary. It'll be interesting tonight to see if your thoughts hold water, which I think they will.

@261. Posted by: ealgumby

"No thanks” for ruining my evening …
Not that you self-righteously give a hoot, but you made Alaïs_Longthought very upset with your thoughtless response to her innocent post … for that you’re on my permanent “lame A%&(*^*%” list.
GFY."

Mea Culpa! I only wanted to stress my disfaction with being jolted out of the fantasy world that is "LOST". I don't watch the show, ponder theories, or read and enjoy this forum in the real world, but in the wonderfully entertaining world of fantasy. I was not only reactionary, but most definitely hypocrytical. Please accept my appologies. In a brutal world of vitrolic attrocities, the hate and ignorance displayed in front of us on the "news" is worth escaping from. How many of us wish we were LOST? My passion got the best of me.

Again, I am sorry!!!

Stephen Ursino (Hurley's Beard)

#253. Posted by: Cecil Rose The Caddie vs the Nash Rambler

I remember that song! My dad had a Nash Rambler and a Studebaker.

#271. Posted by: Hurley's Beard: Stephen Ursino, that was a gracious apology!

******** LONG POST/RANT ALERT ************

Once again, ealgumby writes something that makes me go, "Damn, I wish I'd written that."

I mean, Mac does it on a weekly basis, but that ealgumby shore can gild that lily. Must be Irish.

This blog has such a long and storied past of getting side-tracked and devolving into silliness (Think Paolo and Nikki. Or Fish Slapping. Remember “Penultimate”?) as we near the next episode (sometimes sooner rather than later depending on the quality of the previous ep of course) that I don't know what I'd make of things if it didn't.

The idea of a community - as I understand it - is to share and grow and encourage its members to express themselves, and in the process we become something greater than the sum of its parts. Personal attacks cannot be countenanced.

I don't understand how attacking another person adds to the general fun and feel of this community we call Mac’s Lost Blog. I don't understand the bullying. I don't understand what makes one person think their idea or perspective is so much "righter" than someone else's. I don’t understand what makes one person think their way is the only way and what makes them feel that they have to change everyone else’s thinking to match their own. I don’t understand how they justify a personal attack, unless it’s the cowardly anonymity of the internet that emboldens them. I’m pretty naïve that way.

I was taught long ago to have respect for another person’s point of view. As the saying goes, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

It just so happens that in this instance I agree with Alais (sorry, I seem to have misplaced your umlaut). I believe that Fox news, well pretty much any televised or print or electronic news organization, hell any organization be it religion or government or corporate or the PTA, exists for one reason and one reason only: To make money. And as such their perspectives and their motives are suspect. Fox’s, CBS's, NBC's, CNN's ad infinitum ad nauseum presentation of the news, even their selection of the stories they present, is by the very nature of the medium, skewed and biased.

You gotta think for yourself. Use that hunk of gelatinous goo three feet above your ass for something other than stopping the wind whistling inside your cranium.

But I digress to non-Lost topics…please forgive me. Let’s get back on point.

Our show is going away.

There. I said it. Well, I wrote it. But since I said it while I wrote it I think I can write I said it.

I would truly hate to see something that I have truly and genuinely enjoyed for five years (I wasn’t here for Season 1…sorry Mac) leave me with a sour taste in my mouth like milk past its expiration date. One or two days, maybe. More than that? Do yourself a favor bruthuh…let it go. Trust me on this.

Alais certainly doesn’t need me to defend her. And ealgumby did so much more eloquently than I ever could. I happened to have a soapbox handy and a couple extra pennies in my pocket and thought I’d throw them into the fountain.

Steve – I don’t agree with what you said but I will defend your right to say it. Just not the personal attack. That was way uncalled for. Man up and apologize to Alais (where is that damned umlaut?), and let’s all hold hands as we sit around the communal table that is Mac’s Lost Blog, sing Shambala, and have us some Lost stew. The bottom of the stewpot is nigh.

I’m out of pennies (Penny?) and getting off my soapbox now.

****** END OF LONG POST/RANT ALERT ******

8 minutes late.

And I had such a good head of steam goin'...

Quoth Emily Latella, "Never mind."

#273. Posted by: ransomjackson

You are correct, and I did see post 271

@275 mac

Well spoken for me, mac. Ahh...one big, happy family again...

Not much longer until tonight's episode...I think we all can hold on until then...

with regard to the question of whether it is Jin or Sun who is the Kwon candidate: I wonder if the fact that Sun was isolated from the other candidates after the Ajira flight is indicative of her being The One. And if the actual candidate is their daughter, I wonder if Sun is destined to survive to raise her.

#261. ealgumby:

Thank you very much, sweetheart...as I've told you before & will undoubtedly tell you again, you're my knight in shining armor... : )

& #273. ransomjackson:

And thank you to you also...& just in case you're using a Mac, the umlaut is Option + u + whatever letter you want the umlaut over. Finding the umlaut on a PC, though, is like herding cats! ; )

#271. Hurley's Beard aka (steve):

Thank you for your apology; I do appreciate it.

One of the reasons this blog is absolutely tops is the almost complete lack of flaming & personal attacks, & if something like that does take place, nearly everyone who has done so has stepped up & apologized (I'm thinking of two posters here, but they're not around anymore). Mac has made this a great place to be, which has attracted great people, & for that he deserves accolades... : )

This is one of the reasons this blog is so great. One of us let's himself go for a moment and next thing you know instead of sliding down into senseless flaming, we get great well thought out rebuttals. Even though I've only been around since season 5 I too will miss this blog once the show's over.

Enough with the praise already! I've got some disagreeing to do. With ransomjackson @273 in particular. ;)

Actually, I do agree with most of what you wrote, but I can still pick out a few things that rub me the wrong way.
"I was taught long ago to have respect for another person’s point of view."

So was I. And I think over the years I've come to strongly disagree with this. I should have respect for other people, not their ideas. Ideas should be open to constant scrutiny, attack, discussion, a bombardment of reason and evidence to shape them into the closest approximation of the truth we can get. There's no need to be rude to people along the way and there is certainly no need to think less of the people holding the ideas you're arguing against, but I think it's a healthy attitude to not respect points of view, but the people who hold them.

"I believe that Fox news, well pretty much any televised or print or electronic news organization, hell any organization be it religion or government or corporate or the PTA, exists for one reason and one reason only: To make money."

While for most if not all organizations you mention making money will definitely be up there among the top motivators ---and it is always a good idea to consider what perspectives and motives an organization might have in doing things--- I think it's too simple to boil everything down to that. Surely not every (organized) action in the world can be explained by that single motivation only. It's like saying Lost "is about love" --- you see, back on topic. It's about love, among many other things. Love is not the sole motivator for all character actions on the show, is it? It's a strong motivator, but surely not the only one. Lost, like life, is more complex than that.

I should probably clarify my post @280 a bit more. I do agree with the sentiment ransomjackson posted at @273 immediately after the sentence about respecting ideas: "As the saying goes, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Definitely. And allowing people the right to speak their minds, means that they don't have to respect other ideas. But I can only hope that if people disagree, they back up their opinions with good arguments. Perhaps that's a form of respect for ideas in and of itself. Attack them, but only with good arguments.

This is one of the reasons this blog is so great. One of us let's himself go for a moment and next thing you know instead of sliding down into senseless flaming, we get great well thought out rebuttals. Even though I've only been around since season 5 I too will miss this blog once the show's over.

Enough with the praise already! I've got some disagreeing to do. With ransomjackson @273 in particular. ;)

Actually, I do agree with most of what you wrote, but I can still pick out a few things that rub me the wrong way.
"I was taught long ago to have respect for another person’s point of view."

So was I. And I think over the years I've come to strongly disagree with this. I should have respect for other people, not their ideas. Ideas should be open to constant scrutiny, attack, discussion, a bombardment of reason and evidence to shape them into the closest approximation of the truth we can get. There's no need to be rude to people along the way and there is certainly no need to think less of the people holding the ideas you're arguing against, but I think it's a healthy attitude to not respect points of view, but the people who hold them.

"I believe that Fox news, well pretty much any televised or print or electronic news organization, hell any organization be it religion or government or corporate or the PTA, exists for one reason and one reason only: To make money."

While for most if not all organizations you mention making money will definitely be up there among the top motivators ---and it is always a good idea to consider what perspectives and motives an organization might have in doing things--- I think it's too simple to boil everything down to that. Surely not every (organized) action in the world can be explained by that single motivation only. It's like saying Lost "is about love" --- you see, back on topic. It's about love, among many other things. Love is not the sole motivator for all character actions on the show, is it? It's a strong motivator, but surely not the only one. Lost, like life, is more complex than that.

This is one of the reasons this blog is so great. One of us let's himself go for a moment and next thing you know instead of sliding down into senseless flaming, we get great well thought out rebuttals. Even though I've only been around since season 5 I too will miss this blog once the show's over.

Enough with the praise already! I've got some disagreeing to do. With ransomjackson @273 in particular. ;)

Actually, I do agree with most of what you wrote, but I can still pick out a few things that rub me the wrong way.
"I was taught long ago to have respect for another person’s point of view."

So was I. And I think over the years I've come to strongly disagree with this. I should have respect for other people, not their ideas. Ideas should be open to constant scrutiny, attack, discussion, a bombardment of reason and evidence to shape them into the closest approximation of the truth we can get. There's no need to be rude to people along the way and there is certainly no need to think less of the people holding the ideas you're arguing against, but I think it's a healthy attitude to not respect points of view, but the people who hold them.

"I believe that Fox news, well pretty much any televised or print or electronic news organization, hell any organization be it religion or government or corporate or the PTA, exists for one reason and one reason only: To make money."

While for most if not all organizations you mention making money will definitely be up there among the top motivators ---and it is always a good idea to consider what perspectives and motives an organization might have in doing things--- I think it's too simple to boil everything down to that. Surely not every (organized) action in the world can be explained by that single motivation only. It's like saying Lost "is about love" --- you see, back on topic. It's about love, among many other things. Love is not the sole motivator for all character actions on the show, is it? It's a strong motivator, but surely not the only one. Lost, like life, is more complex than that.

#273. ransomjackson: "You gotta think for yourself":

Talk about a timely arrival...the American Libraries Association product catalog arrived today, w/the poster advertising Banned Book Week (just FYI, it's 9/25-10/2 this year). The poster shows three robots, two of which have electrical plugs in their heads & blank expressions on their faces. The third robot has unplugged the electrical plug from its head, its eyes are lit up, & it's smiling as it reads a book. The tagline is "Think for yourself & let others do the same." : )

I don't know what happened there, but I'm pretty sure I didn't post the same thing three times (280, 282, 283). Sorry.

Oh me, oh my! I'm so very glad that it is Tuesday!!

@Alias #284...Think for yourself & let others do the same.

I like it. Not following this advice is the root of so many problems in the world today. Live and let live. Give peace a chance. Make love not war. Bring back the hippies, I say. ;-) O.K., I got a little carried away there.

Now, back to serious Lost business. What are the chances of Saywer being shirtless tonight? How about Desmond? A girl can hope! ;-)

@Ealgumby:
Dude, how can you let that one post by Steve ruin your whole evening? You sound like a crybaby.

It's an open blog. If someone is really out of line, Mac is the moderator who can intervene. Beyond that, there are only opinions. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go and rebut those opinions if you want to try. It just annoys me how emotional your reactions are, the indignation and how much energy you put in your rebuttals. Granted, I'm putting some time in this post as well, but definitely not as much emotion. When you talk about being made a target for your opinions, that sounds like whining to me. What, we're they posting outside your house with picket signs? Come on man, it's a blog! Why not put all that energy in something more productive? You're often at a 10, when you should be at a 2, IMHO.

Your post was much more distracting to me than Steve's was. Not that I was deeply bothered by your's. I just wanted to give my opinion, seeing that a similar opinion had not yet been given. You write pretty well and have contributed greatly to the on topic discussion. You just annoy me.

Again, I'm not a native speaker, so unfortunately, I can't express myself as eloquently as I would like to.

@Ealgumby:
Dude, how can you let that one post by Steve ruin your whole evening? You sound like a crybaby.

It's an open blog. If someone is really out of line, Mac is the moderator who can intervene. Beyond that, there are only opinions. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go and rebut those opinions if you want to try. It just annoys me how emotional your reactions are, the indignation and how much energy you put in your rebuttals. Granted, I'm putting some time in this post as well, but definitely not as much emotion. When you talk about being made a target for your opinions, that sounds like whining to me. What, we're they posting outside your house with picket signs? Come on man, it's a blog! Why not put all that energy in something more productive? You're often at a 10, when you should be at a 2, IMHO.

Your post was much more distracting to me than Steve's was. Not that I was deeply bothered by your's. I just wanted to give my opinion, seeing that a similar opinion had not yet been given. You write pretty well and have contributed greatly to the on topic discussion. You just annoy me.

Again, I'm not a native speaker, so unfortunately, I can't express myself as eloquently as I would like to.

Hi Ho Boys and Girls. Sorry, I've been so busy at work I just now got to read the last two reviews and most of the comments.

Thank you Cecil for your Happy Easter posting and link. NICE size bunny for sure!

@48 Crispy Seaplanes - You're right. I absolutely didn't like the caged bunny, but was so happy it was spared. Can you imagine the smell of all that bunny hair being zapped? AAAUUUUhhhHHHGGGHH!

@14 - Alias Longthought - Thanks for discovering the bunny's name. I must have rewound a dozen times and could never figure it out. Angstrom huh? Any relation to Milestom? And, no offense taken for your post #116. Wait, is that offense or offence? Where's a spell checker when you need it. I know one is "football" and one is "feelings" but can never remember which one goes where. But I degress...

Hope everyone had a Happy Easter and I'm looking forward to a Hugo epi tonight. Hope I can hop on the forum tomorrow early enough to put my 2 cents in.

Later friends...

I think Eloise is aware of the alt-timeline, but I do not think Widmore is.

I am curious about Desmond and what he is going to do next. Which world will he fight for? In the alt-world he has Widmore's respect, but not Penny's love. At least, not yet...

I think Eloise is aware of the alt-timeline, but I do not think Widmore is.

I am curious about Desmond and what he is going to do next. Which world will he fight for? In the alt-world he has Widmore's respect, but not Penny's love. At least, not yet...

@280 Plain Simple Said:

>This is one of the reasons this blog is so great. ... Even though I've only been around since season 5 I too will miss this blog once the show's over.

Well to make a modest proposal, although Lost will end Film/TV Fodder will go on, and may I invote as many folks as care to to sample the Fringe Blog? (Click my name to go there). Fringe is also a JJ Abrams production, and has many of the same characteristics as Lost - not so huge a cast, but an overall story arc of mysterious things going on behing the scenes, momentous world-shaking things. We've got an alternate earth, ambiguous posiibly good, possibly evil characters, wierd science at every turn.

I'm currently working on a little essay called "A Lost Fan's Guide to Fringe" that I'll post around the end of the season to get folks aquainted with all the similarities.

So the discussion and fun can continue over there, if folks want. Meanwhile, let's enjoy the remaining eps of this wonderful, mind blowing entertainment that is Lost.

It's finally TUESDAY!

@289 BunnyLover asked:

>Wait, is that offense or offence? Where's a spell checker when you need it. I know one is "football" and one is "feelings" but can never remember which one goes where.

Actually, it depends on if you are Brit "-ce" or 'Murcan "-se'.

I read so much British science fiction when I was young (AC Clarke, HG Wells, John Brunner, many others) I 'spelt' things more often the Brit way than the American.

@287. Posted by: Mischa
re: the soap opera within this blog

I have to say - it is pretty annoying that we are experiencing these hissy fits as we are nearing the end of this show. I expect this type of drama from the show, and not within here.

Ealgumby - I also do not understand why you blow something like this up into major proportions? This is getting cheesy.

Mischa raises some good points. I hope you take them (silently) into consideration, as opposed to taking on some crazy long rebuttal that "proves" him/her (as well as myself now I guess) wrong.

More disscusion/analysis/fun with the show, and less territorial antler clacking, even if you are "right".

Peace.

So after last episode's revelations about the alt timeline, I'm really wondering what Juliette's "It worked" really refers to. Is it the fact that the Dharma losties and the current losties both ended up in the same time on the island or does it perhaps mean something different along the alt timeline especially in conjunction with "We should get coffee sometime. We could go Dutch?"

@287. Posted by: Mischa
re: the soap opera within this blog

I have to say - it is pretty annoying that we are experiencing these hissy fits as we are nearing the end of this show. I expect this type of drama from the show, and not within here.

Ealgumby - I also do not understand why you blow something like this up into major proportions? This is getting cheesy.

Mischa raises some good points. I hope you take them (silently) into consideration, as opposed to taking on some crazy long rebuttal that "proves" him/her (as well as myself now I guess) wrong.

More discussion/analysis/fun with the show, and less territorial antler clacking, even if you are "right".

Peace.

Its finally Tuesday!! 3.5 hours to go :)

@293 Cecil

Or a Canuck... we usually use the British but not always and with the very strong USA influence through the media, things get a little confused.

Reading all the recent posts with opinions, replies, and apoligies, etc brings to mind why I chose to post here after reading onlyfor 5 years (granted at the library, on a public computer -- I couldn't really let the guffaws out til I got internet at home). Posting for the first time can be a bit intimidating but this site rocks because for the most part even if I found it hard to 'defend' my point, I wasn't blasted for having it.

By the way ..Yah Librarians.. and Libraries, by far my favorite place to be away from home...

Apologies for the double post.

So after last episode's revelations about the alt timeline, I'm really wondering what Juliette's "It worked" really refers to. Is it the fact that the Dharma losties and the current losties both ended up in the same time on the island or does it perhaps mean something different along the alt timeline especially in conjunction with "We should get coffee sometime. We could go Dutch?"

@ 299. Posted by: srharmon

So after last episode's revelations about the alt timeline, I'm really wondering what Juliette's "It worked" really refers to. Is it the fact that the Dharma losties and the current losties both ended up in the same time on the island or does it perhaps mean something different along the alt timeline especially in conjunction with "We should get coffee sometime. We could go Dutch?"

Interesting take. I was thinking that Juliet got a glimpse of the ALT world as her consciousness jumped to her alt self, or her past self. I remember Charlotte having a flash back moment just before dying in Daniel's arms.

Anyone else have thoughts on this one?

@300. Posted by: Hurley's Beard

I think the popular belief was that we would eventually see Juliette in the sideways world, speaking those words to James. Now that "Love" is all the rage, I'd almost bank on it!

Nation!

It has come to my attention that our little internet "community" does not, at times, play well with Others, and I don't mean those crazy island freaks.

Which brings us to tonight's word:
DISS-COURSE

This thing called the Internet has brought people from around the world into each other's homes for some pent-up forums of ideas (INSTEAD OF SEEDY STREET CORNER MAGAZINE RACKS)

Yes, wide ranging community discourse
is a Western tradition (DRUNKEN BAR BRAWLS) which I for one, hope to nurture and foster (LIKE SELLING ORPHANS ON EBAY).

Now, today's dialog uses words that even I cannot say on cable television (VERIFIABLE INFORMATION) have made their
way onto our little web blogs in such a way as to get readers little touchy about being flamed (ROLL: FLAMING ARROWS BEACH SCENE).

Now, I make my living by making funny observations about people (JON STEWART STEALS ALL MY A-MATERIAL) so what right do I have to criticize someone's else's snarky opinion? (IT'S IN MY CONTRACT!)

Differences of opinion used to be settled on the playground, with scrapes and bleeding noses (FOOM!!!!! WHERE DID ALL THE PRETTY SCHOOL NURSES GO TO?)

But in our politically correct world, the weak cannot be preyed upon (EXCEPT IN A TAX-EXEMPT RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS) by the intellectually strong (NERD GLASSES NOT INCLUDED) because in the end someone's feelings will get hurt. (NOT COVERED IN NEW HEALTH REFORM BILL).

Not everyone in America can get up and vet their powerful, private emotions on cable television (SORRY, CONAN), without stepping on someone's toes along the way (STAY OFF MY LAWN, CONAN!)
Without our little blog communities, we would just be poor, lonely, frustrated people banging their heads against the wall seeking answers to their questions (SEE, LOST VIEWERS). So it is better at times to have the proper DISS-COURSE than to having an expensive, gourmet, pre fixe course of reconstituted cat food (DHARMA FORTUNE COOKIE NOT INCLUDED).

And that's today's Word.

An Enhanced Version is not available, apologies to S. Colbert.

Is anyone else experiencing a glitch when they post? When I post, I get stuck at this page:

cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-comments.cgi

@303 shikotee:

I'm frequently getting a broken blog when I post. In this situation DO NOT HIT *REFRESH*. Or the *back* button. That's how double posts happen. The best solution is tojusrt rebrowse to the blag, and you'll find your post is already there.

Did it again on that post, getting the

"The website cannot display the page -
HTTP 500" screen.

@304. Posted by: Cecil

I've seen this before on the odd occasion. Today - it seems to be happening with every single post.

It is safe to hit the back button - just don't hit the post button again, but instead hit your browser refresh button. You should then be able to see your post, if it made it.

@287/Mischa - "Ealgumby: Dude, how can you let that one post by Steve ruin your whole evening? You sound like a crybaby. ... You just annoy me."

@296/shikotee - "I have to say - it is pretty annoying that we are experiencing these hissy fits ... Ealgumby - I also do not understand why you blow something like this up into major proportions?"

Listen you sanctimonious pricks, I "blew things out of proportion" because some asshole threw an unnecessary "hissy fit" that MADE MY GIRLFRIEND CRY ... is that fucking okay with you? Or is that whining too much?

But you're right ... you worthless pieces of shit are not worth my time and consideration. Bye.

If it makes you feel better, you win ...

wowwhee!

two + hours to read to this point and THE "ONLY" THING WORTH READING was above Comment #1.

The swill, rants, nonsense, attacks, defenses, off-topics, etc... indicate this weblog/forum is on its' death bed.

(Great Review As Always)

wowwhee!

two + hours to read to this point and THE "ONLY" THING WORTH READING was above Comment #1.

The swill, rants, nonsense, attacks, defenses, off-topics, etc... indicate this weblog/forum is on its' death bed.

(Great Review As Always)

@307 ...

Wow. I think it would best for all if I simply left the forum. Too much ado about nothing.

Ealgumby - I overreacted, commented out off a bad place, and I stated my unconditional apppology along with my full name as too express my sincerity.

If I am now just "Some Asshole" what would call someone who says the vulger things you just did. Maybe you should be an Asshole and print an apology too.

I will continue to read, but this is my last post on this forum.

I have enjoyed all of your wisdom, that includes everyone.

Now lets enjoy tonights episode!!!!!!

Kum ba yah my lord kum ba yah . . . I swaying here . . . kum ba yah . . . everybody, right - then left . . my lord, kum bah yah . . . anybody bring the leftover Easter peeps to roast over the fire? . . . Kum bah Yah . . . .

AAAAUUUUUGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I just realized I'm going to be driving to Nashville while LOST is on and won't get to see it until tomorrow night when I get home . . . . ! . . .

I'm dying here...Kum bah yah . . . I'm drying here . . . Kum bah . . . .

@307. Posted by: ealgumby

Woah! Just so we are clear - I have not actually read up on what caused this whole curfuffle. I had not checked things out since last week, and when I was skimming, I decided to stop reading because of the "domestic dispute" type atmosphere.

I have nothing against anyone, nor do I think anyone should leave - I come here to talk about the show, joke around with playful banter, etc., but i simply prefer to have the drama come from my TV and not this blog.

Sorry if I have offended or insulted in the process - perhaps I should have read up on what this was actually about before commenting.

@310. Posted by: mac

I agree.
Just wanted to clarify where I was coming from.
Once again - apologies...

What happened here? 30 posts ago I complimented the blog on its constructive way to deal with arguments and suddenly people start leaving the blog all around?

I've enjoyed the contributions of ealgumby, shikotee, Hurley's Beard and Mischa over the course of the last years and I hope they stick around and can treat us to their insights on the upcoming episodes once the emotions have settled down a bit. The whole issue seems to be at least 95% miscommunication and not bad intent.

@Ealgumby:

Wow. I guess all I have to say to that is: bye bye and good riddance.

Mischa & shikotee:

Just FYI, as it appears that you missed reading the original posts that began this topic, ealgumby was sticking up for me, as Hurley's Beard entirely mistook the meaning of a post of mine & expressed his displeasure w/it in inappropriate terms. It did upset me. So I suppose if you are unhappy w/ealgumby's post, it's my fault for being upset. (And Hurley's Beard did apologize, which I accepted & appreciated.)

FWIW, & w/o going into detail, I spent many years w/someone who didn't care about my feelings & both actively & passively said & did things that eroded my self-esteem. To have someone who cares about me & sticks up for me, as ealgumby does, is something I deeply appreciate. There's not a day that goes by that he doesn't say or do something that reminds me of how lucky I am to have him as a partner, & how lucky I am that we found each other.

iv'e been away for a few days working,
sooo...
did i miss anything?

I am breaking my promise this one time to say

Give Ealgumby a break. Give him the break he did not give me. He was defending the honor of his beloved, and got overly passionate over a stupid thoughtless comment that I, and I stress "I" made. My one sentence comment started this, please let this end it. I have caused enough damage here already.

You know, I’m wondering if we aren’t on exactly the right track with our discussions of Schrödinger’s cat/superpositions. Talk about your macro superpositions – after rewatching “Happily Ever After” last night, it seems to me like the whole earth is in simultaneous ‘quantum’ states, whatever ‘quantum’ means in a system as big as this.

Trapped in two (equally?) probable states generated by some event (which may or may not have been Jughead) which both did and didn’t change things, and waiting for some “observer” to observe the event and ‘collapse the probability function’ to one or the other state. Schrödinger himself was scornful of such macro quantum events, his ‘cat’ illustration was intended to show the ridiculousness of such thinking, and by extension to even the quantum dynamics explanation of micro events. Nevertheless the idea has a powerful hold on laymen’s imaginations, and possibly even our PTB.

If this is where Lost is going, (1) What is the triggering event? (2) Who is the observer? (3) Can the observer have any control over the outcome of his or her observation? In the classic thought experiments, the observer has no control, but by looking cause one or the other outcome to become definitely established. Yet in our little Lost universe, at least one person inside the ‘states’ on each side appears to be desperately trying to force a particular outcome. That would be Charles Widmore. His warnings of ‘everyone we love would simply cease to be’ is entirely consistent with a probability collapse that leaves his (and the island’s) reality on ‘poof’ side while the alt-reality ‘wins’ and becomes the new reality.

In one sense, it would seem that the MIB must be the ‘observer’ and that if he/it escapes the island and is thus able to observe the world, that could be the event that collapses realities, causing one to cease to exist. On the other hand, Widmore’s words to Desmond about being asked to ‘make a sacrifice’ seem to indicate that perhaps Desmond is the observer, and that somehow he will be the one that forces one or the other reality to disappear.

So, to answer my own earlier question, perhaps the island is ‘the box’ that must be opened to determine which reality prevails, and the observer is inside, rather than outside, the box, and the whole world is the experiment that will fall one way or the other.

Thought: Can the two co-equal worlds go on indefinitely if the observer is prevented from ever observing,, as seems to be Jacobs (and Widmore’s?) intentions re the MIB? IS anyone in the alternate reality aware of the coming choice (Eloise Widmore seems to be but doesn’t seem to be doing anything to protect ‘her’ reality.

My friends, whom I cherish, do not watch Lost. (sigh)

They watch Dancing with the Stars, or American Idol, or that restaurant show with the crazy Brit. (yuck)

It would be ridiculous to call you all (everybody) my friends - I didn't even realize that two of my favorite brainy posters were husband and wife. (awww)

And yet, I cherish this blog.

I have LMAO over references to Douglas Adams and Monty Python - my kind of crazy Brits. (only a flesh wound)

I have been floored by the depth of knowledge, creativity, and passion that you all contribute. (geeks are cool)

With Mac as our constant, we have a place to review and predict and criticize and celebrate. (joy)

And we only have a few weeks left. (sob, wiping eyes with Cindy's scarf)

Let's all get our game faces on, crack open a bottle of wine, and shut the door on our significant others who "just don't get that show" --- it's Tuesday night!

My friends, whom I cherish, do not watch Lost. (sigh)

They watch Dancing with the Stars, or American Idol, or that restaurant show with the crazy Brit. (yuck)

It would be ridiculous to call you all (everybody) my friends - I didn't even realize that two of my favorite brainy posters were husband and wife. (awww)

And yet, I cherish this blog.

I have LMAO over references to Douglas Adams and Monty Python - my kind of crazy Brits. (only a flesh wound)

I have been floored by the depth of knowledge, creativity, and passion that you all contribute. (geeks are cool)

With Mac as our constant, we have a place to review and predict and criticize and celebrate. (joy)

And we only have a few weeks left. (sob, wiping eyes with Cindy's scarf)

Let's all get our game faces on, crack open a bottle of wine, and shut the door on our significant others who "just don't get that show" --- it's Tuesday night!

boy, that would have been more moving if I hadn't double posted...

I'm lucky. My wife, Carol, loves the show - not to the point of fanatacism (e.g. us), but enough to watch every show with me and speculate along side of me.

Interesting ideas by Cecil @ 319. Now, the "observer" does not necessarily need to be some conscious observer, it just means that the system which is in superposition has to interact with the outside world. So if Island world and ALT world are both possible states of the LOST system, then what would be the outside world with which it can interact to `collapse' into one of the two?

Like the schrodinger's cat analogy for the 2 worlds.

Initially, I thought there was a sideways world because the second "tangent" universe was created because of the paradox of the flight 815. How could people on a flight in 2004, arrive on an island which was supposedly blown up by them in the past?

But if there's some other choice that completes the loop, something to be played out in further episodes, than both those realities could exist until that point. After all if someone has some choice that could destroy 1 of 2 things, would both those exist until that choice was made, sort of like the cat being alive and dead at the same time?

Carlton Cuse wrote something about a "blast from the past" for tonight's ep. on his tweet. Maybe something to do with the hatch explosion??

@319. Cecil:

Absolutely awesome post. I came to this blog to freshen up before the episode, and for some reason got jolted out of the mood. But now that it's one minute away, I'm psyched again.

Hope to see everyone on the other side.

iv'e been away for a few days working,
sooo...
did i miss anything?

#317. Posted by: san

LOL

Alias

Sorry. I was the one who mentioned Fox News. I will keep my political persuasions to myself. Sorry you took the abuse for it. And Ealgumby, we all need you here.

#320. jaybee:

If you weren't referring to ealgumby & me, I'm going to be very embarrassed for taking the credit, but if you were, thank you very much for your kind words. We're not married...yet...but are definitely paired for life.

#328. berkyo:

Thanks, but it wasn't your mention of Fox News that was the issue...the original posts, which had nothing to do w/politics but were on some scientific articles, mentioned both Fox News & Nature magazine. As my post referenced the original posts, I used both those news organizations in (trying to) make a point, that general news organizations are generally not very good at getting scientific details correct, yet that people who saw the scientific story on Fox most likely will not look to the Nature article to get the real deal.

I appreciate your comment to ealgumby & will pass it along!

I did a 'find' in this webpage to see if I could 'find' anyone that noticed and posted about Desmond's cut on his forehead. Seems he had one very similar in both the 'alt' timeline and the 'current' timeline.

Any thoughts on this?? or was something blatantly obvious that I missed??

@undaunted #285 I have made the same points myself about dead Dave and MIB not being able to manifest off island. Needless to say but I'll say it anyhow, i agree completely.

@ Mizzed #274, "In Isabella's case- Smokey "stole" her memory from Richard on the Black Rock, then assumed her shape in an effort to manipulate Richard into killing Jacob" I must have been dreaming during that particular moment because I think I'm the only one who thought Isabella was just a dream or a hallucination of a very thirsty Richard rather than a manifestion of MIB. I will have to watch that episode again.

Re Christian, he remains the most interesting character for me because of the many ways to many people he has appeared. There are some excellent discussions above about this (e.g. #302 by Mizzed) that leave me feeling that I should go back and watch every episode again. Flocke is able to actually touch people but other manifestations, and Christian in particular, seem to not touch people. Did Christian help Locke stand up after he broke hs leg? Someone mentioned Christian actually holding Aaron. Jack, on the other hand, never touched his father. And that business about the shoes!

And Cecil, good job on the discussion of Schroedinger's cat and superimposed states and such.

So much confusion. Will tonight help? The Last Recruit? Or are TPTB going to give us another bunch of shockers to leave our brains bouncing around in our crania? Does anyone think that in some underground room in Burbank there is a Master Chart on the wall, like a giant Lostpedia, with all the connections, all the manifestations, all the relationships laid out in complete detail, allowing the writers to invent episodes that show us little windows of the Master Chart but never too much.

I love that you can check Charlie's checkered Vans shoes as he is running down the hospital stairs.