The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Last Recruit"

Season 6, Episode 13
Episode Air Date: 04/20/10

Point 1

Hurley Flocke

Hang on, folks. This is going to be a weird one. There was no "centric" aspect to this episode. Not even a little bit. Characters were joining up, splitting apart and coming back together, which is why you'll find an unusual number of key points in this recap. There was no other way to swing it.

So let's get started.

Jack and Flocke are now on the same island, but not necessarily on the same team. We learn there's some odd rule that once you let Flocke talk to you, you're one of his recruits (if that's true he'd be the world's greatest college coach). Of course, Claire is the one who reveals this little tidbit, and I don't recommend taking Ms. Squirrel Baby at her word ... unless she's talking about squirrel babies.

Beyond this team business, we were also presented with two additional Jack-Flocke developments:

-- Flocke admits to Jack that he took the form of Christian all those many years ago. I'm now concluding, perhaps incorrectly, that anytime we've ever seen Christian on-island, that was actually Smokey showing off his fancy Dr. Christian Shephard costume. So that means Smokey was sitting in the the cabin with Claire. And it was Smokey who told Locke to spin the donkey wheel. But if we're to believe that Flocke could no longer take on Christian's form once he claimed the body of John Locke -- yet another wacky rule -- then who was playing "Christian" in the season five episode, "Namaste"? Dr. Shephard was the one who told Sun and Frank that Jin, Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet and Miles were in 1977. And hadn't Flocke claimed Locke at that point? Also, if Smokey is trapped on the island (as he clearly appears to be), then which "Christian" did Jack see off-island? Did Jacob orchestrate that?

-- Jack is now a full-on island convert. In a conversation with Sawyer, Jack whips out all of Locke's old talking points: "the island isn't done with us" and "we have a purpose" and destiny and fate and "hey, those Apollo Bars aren't so bad," etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And, most interesting, Jack also understand that Flocke should not leave the island. I imagine that'll hinder their budding bromance.

Point 2

Jack Sawyer Hurley Kate Sun

Mental note: If Sawyer tells you he has a plan, challenge him on the finer points. You'll discover he hasn't thought it through.

Our heroic but hotheaded con-man-turned-security-chief somehow manages to get Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Frank and Claire on Desmond's old sailboat (which has survived years of storms and direct sunlight with nary a scratch). The "plan" is to hightail it to the Hydra island and then stick a gun in someone's face (presumably Widmore's) until they fork over the submarine's keys and allow Sawyer's castaways to chug merrily into the sunset.

I'll give him credit. The plan was audacious. And Sawyer did put one over on Flocke (for the time being). But I felt kinda bad for the guy when, in the final moments, his house of cards falls down. Sawyer seemed so ... surprised. And that's just pathetic. Of course it fell apart! You can't swipe a sailboat from a supernatural smoke pillar and expect everything else to just work out! You need contingencies, man! You need to Keyser Söze this thing!

Perhaps worst of all, because Sawyer booted Jack off his boat (literally ... Jack had to swim back to the main island), he's put himself in a real bad pickle. Who's Sawyer going to blame when Widmore's geeky/homicidal science team kills everyone? Hurley? Frank? Himself? Oh hell no.

Here's a few other observations relevant to this Key Point:

-- We wondered for years if Jack and Claire would ever get the chance to discuss their shared bloodline -- and I even concocted an icky Luke-Leia scenario way back when -- but now we can put all that to rest. At the beginning of this episode, Jack and Claire acknowledge that they're brother and sister. Sadly, Jack has to also acknowledge that Claire is out of her friggin' mind. That chick takes abandonment issues to a whole new level.

-- Jack apologizes to Sawyer for getting Juliet killed. While the sentiment and effort are commendable, Juliet's death isn't really his fault. And I think he knows it. This is the same guy who's now spouting off about the island bringing them all there. That destiny is in the air and fate is a given (blah blah blah). And yet, Jack is somehow responsible for Juliet's demise? I don't buy it.

Point 3

Desmond Sayid

Do not mess with Desmond Hume. Even when he's crumpled at the bottom of an ancient well, that man can mess with your mind. And if you assume you're immune because you're a zombie, well think again brain eater! He'll screw with you, too!

That's why, despite Sayid's claim he killed Desmond, I'm pretty sure we'll see Mr. Hume again, on-island. How he gets out of that well is anyone's guess, but DESMOND WILL RISE AGAIN!

A couple of additional thoughts here:

-- Last week it seemed, at least for a moment, that Desmond actually thought he was talking to John Locke. But when he asks Sayid in this episode what he was offered in return for being Flocke's wet work guy, it was clear to me that Des is fully aware Locke isn't Locke anymore. And that casts some interesting perspective on Desmond's alternate universe actions. I'm guessing vengeance was not his motivation for running down Alt Locke.

-- It's going to be pretty funny when Flocke thinks he's coming through on his promise and he mistakenly reunites Sayid with Shannon instead of Nadia. "No! No! Wrong dead lover! That was a hook up!"

Point 4

Sun Jin

Finally. Seriously. Finally. Now stop all this island nonsense and get back to your child. Grandma's pissed!

(And yes, Sun's sudden ability to speak English upon reuniting with Jin was pretty ridiculous. But hey, they're together and neither is dead yet, so I'll let it slide.)

Point 5

Island Locke Sun Jin Kate Locke

The alternate timeline was labyrinthine in this episode, but the chess pieces are clearly moving into place for some sort of cross-timeline reveal. Here's where the players currently stand:

Jack and Claire -- He briefly crossed paths with Claire at Ilana's law office, but he had to run off to repair Locke's dural sac. And we know Jack's a dural sac master thanks to his history of nicking and fixing those buggers.

Locke -- On the operating table with Jack hovering over him.

Sun and Jin -- When Sun was closest to death (thanks to the bullet in her gut) she actually recognized Locke. But now that she and her unborn child are both safe, her knowledge of the alternate timeline appears to have subsided. But if she follows the trajectory established with Alt Charlie, Alt Desmond, Alt Hurley and Alt Libby, she'll have residual memories of the island. Jin, on the other hand, doesn't appear to have any island knowledge at this point.

Sawyer, Miles and Sayid -- The grisly doings in that restaurant kitchen catch the attention of Sawyer and Miles. They track down Sayid and use guns and a garden hose to snatch him.

Kate -- Sawyer arrested her, then he flirted with her, then he left her handcuffed to a chair in the police station.

Desmond -- His cupid act is getting a little creepy, now. He somehow lures Claire to his attorney's office, which is super convenient because Ilana (Des' lawyer) was looking for her. I'm not sure what Desmond's next move will be, but he might want to tone the act down a bit.

Missing / unaccounted for -- Charlie, Faraday, Charlotte, Penny, Minkowski, Boone, Hurley and Libby aren't seen in this episode's alt-timeline scenes. Ben makes a brief cameo in Locke's ambulance, and it would seem he's at or near the hospital where Locke was taken.

Point 6

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "You, me, Jack, Sun, Hurley and that pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie." -- Sawyer, rattling off his wish list to Kate.
  • Second Best Line: "The plan, chesty, is to land on Hydra island." -- Sawyer to Frank.
  • Third Best Line: "It would never work, sweetheart. I'm a cop, you're a murderer." -- Sawyer to Kate
  • Fourth Best Line: "You look ... great." -- Hurley to Claire.
  • I'm guessing Flocke didn't spend all these episodes whittling that giant stick just so he could destroy Zoe's walkie-talkie. You just know someone's gonna get impaled on that thing.
  • Now, far be it from me to challenge the great Charles Widmore, but he and his cronies do realize they're dropping explosives on an unkillable smoke monster, right? Are they hoping to thwart Flocke's escape by taking out a candidate or two?
  • The mystery of Juliet's outrigger victim remains unsolved. It initially seemed like someone on Sawyer's crew would take a time bullet en route to Hydra island, but that theory fizzled when the sailboat came into play. Now, I'm concerned we'll never know who was firing / fired upon or we'll see Bernard take one right between the eyes.
  • I know it sounded like "Radzinsky," but it looks like Ilana's last name is "Verdansky."

That's all I've got!

Next Episode:

"Ab Aeterno" -- REPEAT! Bound to happen since the number of episodes doesn't match up with the finale date. Airs Tuesday, April 27, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

MIF?

#1. Posted by: dk at April 21, 2010 12:20 AM

MIF!

#2. Posted by: laodoufu at April 21, 2010 12:20 AM

MIT! (third)

#3. Posted by: meg at April 21, 2010 12:23 AM

Very funny part: when Sawyer and Kate were coming out of the jungle on the beach to find the sailboat, Sawyer comes out of the brush first and pretty much smacks Kate in the face with a branch as he's pushing through it. It was pretty fast, and no one probably noticed, but I thought it was hysterical!

#4. Posted by: erin at April 21, 2010 12:29 AM

again with the Jack commitment issues. jumps ship to what? join forces with an evil power that throws innocent people around a stone building to kill them? i hope the losties that went to hydra island join forces with widmore AND WIN. then, three years from now, return to the island to crap on jacks grave. imagine what jacks 'whispering' ghost self is gonna say when he sees hugo returning and dropping trousers to take a dump on the docs rotting skull.

#5. Posted by: dez gruntled at April 21, 2010 12:31 AM

I thought I heard Radzinsky too, but he was the limo driver. Of course, he could have also doubled as a lawyer hehe.

This episode just seemed a bit cheesy to me, what with Sun/Jin reuniting and Frank saying 'well someone finally got her voice back', I expected a laugh track after that line.

But I am liking how this is shaping up. I'm waiting for the final show down. And I'm really liking the new roles some of the Losties are coming into, especially Jack.

Did anyone else see those short videos of the cast members? Today Juliet said 'mmm cake' and I think Sun said that same thing a few weeks ago. I don't know what it means.

#6. Posted by: Silhouette at April 21, 2010 12:32 AM

Did anyone else think that the well Des was in would be a lot deeper? It kind of looked like they dug just a little bit - or it somehow got filled in. Of course that's why Flocke stuck him in there and knew he wouldn't have been killed.

Loved the Burt Reynolds comment the most.

#7. Posted by: dk at April 21, 2010 12:33 AM

Thanks for the recap, Mac. We still may not know what the island is, but are enjoying the run. Who would have thought that 'answers' could leave one confused and 'lost'!

#8. Posted by: MySoulmateDigsLost at April 21, 2010 12:33 AM

Mac said: "There was no "centric" aspect to this episode. Not even a little bit."

BS. I was Jack. He is the 'Last Recruit' - probably the only one needed by fake-Locke. Recruited in the last scene when he was carried to safety. Los Angeles had all of the players, but the only really new missing piece there was when Jack filled in the blank on his new half-sister Claire.

#9. Posted by: xxxsunilneb sevol ybmuglae at April 21, 2010 12:37 AM

Few season reader, first time poster. GRAA
I think that because Jacob was killed then Flocke was stuck. Before when he talked with Sun/Frank he was able to move freely as Christian and Locke, then after Jacob died the rules of the game changed.

#10. Posted by: desisbest at April 21, 2010 12:38 AM

I'm still questioning the validity of Ilana's claim that smokey was stuck with the Locke appearance. Not only did he appear as Christian after taking on Locke's appearance, he appeared as Alex to Ben. I'm thinking Ilana was mistaken or we misunderstood her or something. Flocke definitely can take on other appearances still.
Still not sure how he appeared as Chrisitan off-island, unless that wasn't him. Would like that explained...

And alt-Claire actually going with alt Desmond to Ilana's office? Really? After his creepy stalker act? Seemed a little carzy of her. Guess she's a whack job in both timelines.

#11. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 21, 2010 12:39 AM

As always thanks for a great review Mac...I've been a faithful follower since season 1 and wanted to post a comment before the end of the season :)))Looking forward to reading what everyone else has to say:)))

'You, me, Jack, Sun, Hurley and that pilot who looks like he stepped off the set of a Burt Reynolds movie' line cracked me up ...love Sawyer:)))

#12. Posted by: Dee at April 21, 2010 12:42 AM

Illana didn't say mib was stuck as locke until after jacob was dead - hence his ability to change beforehand. Also to #10 - jack didn't jump to go join flocke he jumped because he thought it was how to stop him. You can hate jack all you want but atleast pay attention to the epi.

#13. Posted by: billy at April 21, 2010 12:50 AM

@2 laodoufu:

Is that Korean on your website? Have we had someone amidst us all along who could translate Sun and Jin?

#14. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 21, 2010 12:50 AM

@2 laodoufu:

Incidentally, just for fun, here's what Babel Fish malkes of the first section:

2010年4月14日 星期三
Lost回顾:S6E12 "Everybody Loves Hugo"
Lost的编剧们肯定都是沐浴过甜蜜爱情的人。没有经过刻骨铭心的爱情,不可能写出这么多催人泪下的片段。不要说当年Desmond和Penny的时空交错还有Sawyer和Juliet的生死离别,就连混搭口味偏重的Hugo和Libby,都让人百感交集。我虽然打心眼里对两位大神排斥,在厚重的科幻、神秘、悬疑之余能经常享受这样的drama,却正是我如此喜爱《Lost》的根本原因。


只剩四集了,剧情貌似依旧不紧不慢,但一切都正向高潮稳步前进。

1. 平行世界#2:终于完成的野餐

TRANSLATION:

2010 years [wel]]] day Lost: S6E12 " Everybody Loves Hugo" Lost people. under and possible person. years Desmond Penny empty Sawyer Juliet lifestyles and Hugo Libby, people hundred. ,、 mysterious、 national disgrace drama and > underlying causes. and step. 1. Balance #2:

#15. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 21, 2010 1:02 AM

@14 Cecil Rose:

that's definitely not korean; i believe it's chinese.

on another note, isn't it comforting to know that (for now) jack and the rest of the "candidates" aren't together? MIB needs them to be together in order to get off the island and therefore DESTROY THE UNIVERSE! (he's so selfish)

#16. Posted by: schmaboo at April 21, 2010 1:18 AM

Nice recap Mac, there was a LOT going on.

Let's hear it for Sayid coming out of zombie-status! His smooth delivery of "Why don't you go see for yourself if you don't believe me..." had Flocke looking a little concerned I thought! But probably more from Sayid regrowing his spine a bit than actual doubt. His mistake there will hit him later, and hard methinks. I agree with you 100% Mac, Desmond is due for a BIG return brutha!

Loved the "reversal" of the jumps, last time it was Sawyer, this time Jack.

Two weeks(?!#) until we get to see Smokey go all medieval on their butts! The preview certainly leaned in that direction anyhow. All in all, a good episode with questions answered ("Yeah... it was me...") and some action delivered too.

Oh, one last thing. Could it simply be that the off-island Christian seen in the hospital was induced by Jack's huge misuse of alcohol and prescription drugs? Can one scene be explained that simply, or must we assume that each and every detail needs to be tied out 100% for our complete satisfaction? Any other drama, we'd think the guy was just having a breakdown, but here, we expect to cross-reference every moment.

Personally, I'm willing to cut a wee bit o' slack, if they will at least not skip anything important. Seems the two best biggies left are: 1) Who (and what dammit!) is Smokey and 2) Who/what is the Island. Add to this list with 3), 4) etc. and let's come up with a "Top 10 Island Questions" remaining! I have a couple more, but I don't want to be greedy and hog the list...

#17. Posted by: The Duf at April 21, 2010 1:44 AM

Mac - you're on your game tonight!! Flippin loved your review!!

Sawyer - Miami Vice look out, trip 'em up with the old garden hose trick. ( laughed my but butt off ((I wish)) )

The comment by Sawyer: "The Locke Cool-Aid", I guess you could view the whole thing as a little Charles Mansonesk.

So the Boat's name is "Elizabeth", anything there?

And what has Jack got in is backpack, he looks like a 6yr old going to school. What do you pack when you're running for your life?? and from an Island where you have no possesions?

So I wondered last week whether the well was going to be wet or dry. Now I got my answer, it't arf way tween. So how does Des get out? He's got (or the well does) one of those mini DW's (remember the little one Ben turned?) the water will drain and reveal a passage into the tunnels, and off he goes...

Love TPTB and their sound effects. Every swHospital scene and the life monitors sounded like the hatch countdown. Look out everybody! It's gunna blow!

#18. Posted by: tweedle_dee at April 21, 2010 1:52 AM

@16 schmaboo:

Guess you're roght, trying a Chinese translation gives a much smoother text:

TRANSLATION:

on April 14, 2010 on Wednesday Lost review: S6E12 " Everybody Loves Hugo" The Lost screenwriters definitely have bathed the happy love person. Has not passed through love which remembers with eternal gratitude, is impossible the fragment which writes these many moves people to tears. Do not say that in the past Desmond and the Penny space and time interlocked also has Sawyer and the Juliet life and death leaves, mixed builds the taste imbalance Hugo and Libby, let person all sorts of feelings. Although I to two big god repels, in sincere science fiction, mystical, time suspense can enjoy such drama frequently, is actually precisely I so like "Lost" the basic reason. Only remained four volumes, the plot apparented as before a moderate pace, but all are proceeding steadily to the high tide. 1. Parallel world #2: Completes finally picnic

#19. Posted by: Cecil at April 21, 2010 1:53 AM

Anyone gotta guess on who Jack's kid's mom is? Ok, I am gonna put my guess out there....I think it's Juliet.
Oh and where the heck is Richard tonight? Just running around the jungle????

#20. Posted by: Christina at April 21, 2010 1:56 AM

Interestingly, if i tell Babel Fish the original was Japanese, I get:

2010 April 14th star period three Lost time 顾: S6E12 " Everybody Loves Hugo" Lost 编 剧 们 affirmative capital right 沐 bath 过 甜 honey 爱 feeling person. The sinking possession 经 过 carving/moment bone 铭 mental 爱 feeling, impossible copying it comes out, 这 么 the one step under the multi 催 human 泪. Unnecessary 说 this year Desmond harmony Penny 时 empty intersection 错 还 possession Sawyer harmony Juliet life and death 离 别, engaging in 连 mixed tower oral taste overemphasize Hugo harmony Libby, capital 让 human hundred impression intersection collection. Our 虽 way hitting heart eye village 对 两 rank large God rejection and resident in thick it is heavy mark course vision, mystery, a little more than the 悬 doubt 之 talent 经 normalcy enjoyment 这 样 mark drama, 却 correct right our 如 此 happiness 爱 > mark basic cause. Merely, 剩 four collection Ryo, 剧 feeling 貌 it is similar, before the depending old non- 紧 non- slow/lazy, 但 all capital correct direction high tide 稳 步 进. 1. Parallel worldwide #2: 终 于 complete field 餐

I could almost write a pretty goot story form that. Maybe I'll try if some time.

#21. Posted by: Cecil at April 21, 2010 1:57 AM

So if Claire is to be believed, then you are with Flocke, like it or not, if you let him talk. This means that Miles is the only one that hasn't spoken to Flock. Hmm...

#22. Posted by: Coone at April 21, 2010 2:01 AM

For the life of me I do not recall where that sail boat (the Elizabeth) came from....???????????????? My brain is toast! Do you recall?

#23. Posted by: Jack at April 21, 2010 2:05 AM

#23 - Sailboat brought Desmond to the island. Libby gave it to Desmond - named after her "Elizabeth". Was her husband's (David) boat - before he died.

#24. Posted by: Coone at April 21, 2010 2:07 AM

#24. Posted by: Coone
Ah ok, I thought that looked like the boat Desmond took to the island. I just cannot recall where the boat has been (all these years). Oh now they can just sail away...wha am I forgetting?

#25. Posted by: jack at April 21, 2010 2:13 AM

Cecil, dhaaaarling

Your passion for Mr. laodoufu is extemely admirable.

I'm not sure what his/her purpose is of posting here when none of (maybe?) us can read the language. I can't thank you enough for your tenacity of translation.

Sincerely

(there's always the conspiracy theory, we'll all ponder that one... hidden messages, hidden meanings, ect. ect. ect.)

#26. Posted by: tweedle_dee at April 21, 2010 2:15 AM

# 24 - Mr.? Coone: "Ah ok, I thought that looked like the boat Desmond took to the island. I just cannot recall where the boat has been (all these years). Oh now they can just sail away...what am I forgetting?"


My thoughts exactly, and in pretty good condition too.?

#27. Posted by: tweedle_dee at April 21, 2010 2:33 AM

Let's recap this nonsense!


Jack (to Locke): "I don't have any idea what you are."
Locke: "Sure you do."


Jack is fine with this answer.

The Smoke Monster says he appeared to Jack as his father. Why? Because Jack needed to find water. I hope that's good enough of an explanation for you because that's as good as it gets on Lost.


The Smoke Monster to Jack: "John Locke wasn't a believer Jack. He was a sucker." Man, do I know that feeling.


Claire has a heart to heart with big brother Jack. Strangely, she's not acting crazy anymore. Locke must have slapped the crazy out of her a few episodes ago... or maybe the actors really have no clue how to play these characters because even they have no clue what's going on.


Locke, Jack, and Claire return to camp from their chats in the jungle. It's now daylight. Wow. Those were some long chats.


Sawyer is in the police station with Kate. Kate tells Sawyer that he let her go previously because he went to Australia and didn't want anyone to know he was there. Kate is a runner, an expert tracker, and a psychic.


Poor man's Tina Fey who previously proclaimed she was a geophysicist not a mercenary, is now a tough as nails negotiator. Apparently Widmore now thinks he can kill the Smoke Monster with a mortar round... although previously Desmond was the only answer to save the world.


Llana is a lawyer of course. Desmond knows Llana somehow and somehow has been following Claire and somehow gets Claire and Jack together for the reading of their father's will. Don't ask any questions. Just go with it.


Locke tells Sawyer to go get the sail boat. Sawyer asks why they aren't all going together. Locke says, "The bigger the group, the slower it moves." I guess gravity has a greater effect on a large object thus slowing down the time that it takes it to move from point A to point B.


Sawyer decides he's going to skip out on Locke and take the sail boat to Hydra island. He asks Kate if she knows how to sail the boat. Surprisingly she does. Runner, expert tracker, psychic, and sail boat captain. That's our Kate.

Meanwhile, over in the Flash Sideways... Sawyer and Miles go to arrest Sayid. Somehow they figure out that Sayid is at his brother's house. Hey, these guys are good. Sayid almost gets away but Sawyer tricks him with the old garden hose trip routine because it's much cooler than just yelling freeze when Sayid walks through the back door.

Here's where things get interesting... and by interesting I mean really dumb. Sawyer pulls Jack aside and actually says the line, "Listen up because I'm only going to say this once." I would make an Allo Allo reference here but only a couple people in the UK would get it. So Sawyer easily convinces Jack to not go with Locke... just as easily as Hurley convinced Jack they should go see Locke... just as easily as Jacob convinced Hurley to leave the temple because Locke was coming to kill them.... just as easily as Michael convinced Hurley to get Jack to go see Locke. Don't think about any of this too much or your head will hurt and you'll start speaking Korean. Sawyer says he has a deal with Widmore and all this is good enough for Jack. Sawyer tells Jack to round up all the cool kids and sneak away from Locke.

Sayid goes to the well to kill Desmond. Locke can't do it because there are some vague island "rules" that help hide the fact that Lindelof and Cuse have no rules. The depth of the well has descreased quite a bit. Desmond asks Sayid what he's going to tell Nadia he did to see her again. Desmond words seem to touch the tiny zombified heart of Sayid- a complete rip off of How the Grinch Stole Christmas. We're left wondering if Sayid really killed Desmond. The tension is killing me. Really.


Claire, who has a major abandonment issues, is abandoned by the cool kids but makes a crazy face and follows them through the jungle to the sail boat. Claire confronts them, Kate tries to do some dramatic acting, unfortunately is not shot in the heart, and everything is cool before you know it... or is it? Jack ruins everything when he decides to start thinking. Jack thinks maybe they should stay on the island because Locke wants them to leave the island. I'm reminded of a certain incident involving the detonation of a nuke. We're not going to help detonate the nuke, we're getting on the sub, now we're going to help so we're getting off the sub, now we're not helping, now we are because I saw you look at her, hey maybe we shouldn't do this because it could be the thing that caused the incident.


The three major players in this drama are Locke/MIB, Widmore, and Jacob. No one has tried asking any of them any pertinent questions about what is going on. Our band of merry morons are in a life and death situation, have been told the fate of humanity is at risk, and they make decisions based on... what? It's all contrived silliness to try and create tension and delay moving the plot anywhere. The characters are morons.


The sail boat crew arrives at Hydra island and are met by Widmore's all-purpose geophysicist/mercenary/Sayid's nurse/negotiator/gun toting guard. She tells Sawyer the deal is off. Imagine that. Widmore is backing out of the deal. Sawyer should have made him pinky swear. Bad move con man.


And now the big moment no one has been waiting for. Jin pops up on the beach (because he's apparently able to roam around freely) and is finally reunited with Sun. Years of "Where's Jin" and "I must find my wife" have finally paid off. Oh, and Sun can conveniently speak English again. I'm glad that plot line paid off well. Lindelof and Cuse are geniuses.


Jack is back on the beach with Locke. Widmore starts firing mortar rounds one at a time from 2 miles away. Jack goes down but Locke carries Bubba to safety Forrest Gump style. This gives him the chance to delvier the line, "It's OK. You're with me now" while dramatic music lets me know the plot is really heating up. No really, this time they mean it.

#28. Posted by: Colin at April 21, 2010 4:18 AM

Re @ 28

I feel the need to take a long shower to wash off your rant of negativity. But even your colossally bad attitude shall not ruin my enjoyment of this amazing show!

A bit of advice, my friend: lighten up! It's a television show--and while, yes, many feel it is an exceptionally smart one, of course it can be attacked on the basis of being incredulous.

For those willing to suspend some disbelief though, our gratitude goes to the writers and producers who with this show have given us a six-year ride of unpredictable twists and turns with suspense, mystery, comedy and heart. I commend them and regret for you that you haven't been able to enjoy the ride.

#29. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at April 21, 2010 5:40 AM

Totally agree with Colin. The first five seasons were, for the most part, well-written, but this season feels slapped-together and meandering.

#30. Posted by: Lost in Barbados at April 21, 2010 6:23 AM

GRAA Mac. So Christian on the Island was Smokey and Christian in the hospital was in Jack's head. Then who/what/why was Christian the one to come to Michael on the frieghter?

#31. Posted by: surefoot at April 21, 2010 6:56 AM

...and which "Christian" was it that appeared to Michael on the freighter? If it was SMokey how did he get across the water?

#32. Posted by: GatorGal at April 21, 2010 7:10 AM

@31 surefoot: Sorry! Your post must have been posting when I was writing mine! Great minds think alike, right?

#33. Posted by: GatorGal at April 21, 2010 7:27 AM

Big Picture, I am thinking we are headed to a place that looks like this in the end:

Jack stays on island.
He defeats (or keeps at bay) MIB/Smokey.
Jack becomes the New Jacob/island gatekeeper.
Jack's "sacrifice" allows the others to leave/go home.
Sawyer and team defeat Widmore et al.
Final shot: Jack and Flocke on the beach watching the plane fly overhead.

#34. Posted by: GatorGal at April 21, 2010 7:31 AM

Did that mortar strike on the beach kill Jack? Flocke said to Jack while helping him off the beach, "Now you are with me". Made me think Flocke made him an undead.

#35. Posted by: peterg at April 21, 2010 7:37 AM

GRAA, Mac.

Props to Colin @28 for a thorough Airing of Grievances. Now let's move on to Feats of Strength and Festivus Miracles.

Seems clear to me Widmore knows he won't kill Flocke with the explosives, but he knows Flocke needs to protect his, um, flock of candidates so is going after them.

We see Jack's reflection in the ER right before he sees Locke. Don't know if there's any connection, but in the next scene on the island he is "with" Flocke.

Seems like Desmond in the alt timeline is like Abbadon was in the original timeline -- getting people to where they need to be.

#36. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 21, 2010 7:56 AM

BAHAHAHAHA

OK . . . “Colin” and “Lost in Ra’ababa” . . . Let’s recall the consequences of last week’s little ranting war and wait at least 125 posts before skewing each other . . . Don’t make me scream on the first day out from a new episode! :-)

I need to save my strength for the “I haven’t read the posts . . .” folks who will show up later this afternoon . . .

#37. Posted by: davidrh at April 21, 2010 8:03 AM

Looooong time reader (since the beginning), but I haven't posted in a couple of years. A couple of things: Mac, reading your clever and insightful recaps has really enhanced the whole Lost experience. When I'm watching an episode, I often think about what you and "the blog" are going to have to say about it.

Best line tonight: "You look....great." I laughed out loud. I am just waiting for Claire to get killed. I am really sick of her and her craziness. I was never a huge Claire fan (although she and Chahlie did have a sweet romance), but let's get rid of her!

I must say that I really miss the real John Locke. He was always one of my favorites (and Sawyer), and I'm still holding on to the hope that he will end up ok and with Helen.

So here are my not-so-insightful top 10 questions that I still have...we can start with the obvious ones:

1. Who/what is Flocke, and what would really happen if he got off the island??

2. Is Widmore a good guy or bad guy?

3. Who is that little boy running around? Also, I do think it has been the same one.

4. I can't wait to find out who Jack's baby mama (ex-wife) is.

5. Are we ever going to see Juliet, Ana Lucia, Eko (probably not), Walt, Paulikki (Ugh!), or Tom (love him) in the alt-verse??

6. Is Desmond just going to get creepier and creepier??

7. Who is going to be the next Jacob?

8. Can Flocke's "spell" on people be broken and make them uncrazy again?

9. Where are lovely Rose and Bernard?

10. WIll Cindy's scarf survive through the epic soon-to-be battle????

My post has added no insight, but I felt I had to chip in after learning so much about this awesome show from all of you!

#38. Posted by: JG at April 21, 2010 8:22 AM

why did the chicken cross the road? to get away from the mortar fire directed at flocke and jack.

#39. Posted by: snarky bastuhdson at April 21, 2010 8:34 AM

I agree with the others who posted that Smokey wasn't stuck in Locke form until after Jacob was killed.

But at the beginning of this season Flocke was on Hydra island when Christian appeared to Sun and Frank at New Otherton.

So, my question is how did Smokey get from Hydra island (in Locke form) to the main island (Christian form) to see Sun and Frank and then back to Hydra island so quickly? Was he lying to Sawyer when he said he couldn't fly from one island to another in smoke form?

#40. Posted by: IStillBelieve at April 21, 2010 8:35 AM

@36. Posted by: Scooby-Dude
Seems clear to me Widmore knows he won't kill Flocke with the explosives, but he knows Flocke needs to protect his, um, flock of candidates so is going after them.

But Locke wants the candidates to die. Remember, he told Jacob (in Ab Aterno) that he would kill all of them? Also the little boy who keeps showing up was reminding Flock that he "Can't kill him". Flock wants the candidates dead so that no one replaces Jacob - because whoever replaces Jacob will impart the same rules on Flock and keep him tied to the Island. Anyways, why does Widmore's threat to bomb them all effect Flock? He should just turn into smokey and float away while everyone else dies. He only needs the candidates to come with him if they are alive. If they die, then his problem is solved. obviously the other 300+ candidates that were brought to the Island and died aren't coming with Flock to the Ajira plane and it's not deterring Flock from his plan. Once a candidate is dead, they are no longer a threat to Flock. He needs the living candidates to come with him so that they don't replace Jacob. phew, I probably could have summed that up in fewer words :P

#41. Posted by: Skipper at April 21, 2010 8:38 AM

@20 Christina: You have asked the most interesting question so far and it bears repeating...

Where is Richard???

#42. Posted by: Tim at April 21, 2010 8:55 AM

@Mac
re: mystery of Juliet's outrigger victim

Great review!

You seem to have forgotten that Ben, Miles, and Richard will be (or are) heading to Hydra Island via the outriggers. My money is on Miles, but I suppose it would be more poetic if Juliet ends up shooting Ben. Karma. Keep in mind - whoever gets shot does not necessarily have to die. It could be a mere flesh wound!

@11. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
re: was stuck with the Locke appearance

As mentioned @13, the stuck thing seemed to happen after Jacob died. I think this whole "stuck" gimmick was put together simply so Terry O'Quinn would have more screen time.

LoL - Desmond was totally creepy. Funny how the Ilana's office was right across from the Adoption place. But is all of this not making a strong case that sideways world is NOT real? One would almost think Desmond was able to make the 15th floor what it needed to be.


@17. Posted by: The Duf
re: off-island Christian

This is what I suggested last week - that the simple answer could be true. I still suspect that some other force has the power of projection. It could be Jacob, or perhaps mama?


@20. Posted by: Christina
re: Jack's kid's mom

Juliet would seem to make sense. This parallels the island, where Jack and Juliet had some brief nookie before she ended up with Sawyer. In the sideways world, Jack and Juliet have split, which means she could still go dutch with Sawyer.

Richard is off with Ben and Miles to take an outrigger to Hydra island, where it is highly likely that one of them will be shot by Juliet.


@28. Posted by: Colin

You forgot to mention that there is in fact no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, and no Tooth Fairy. Also, when we all die, there will be no afterlife - just empty nothingness. Good times!


@29. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana
re: I feel the need to take a long shower

LoL - totally!


@30. Posted by: Lost in Barbados
re: this season feels slapped-together and meandering

I think many of us are aware of this observation - we just choose not to get angry about it.


@31. Posted by: surefoot
@32. Posted by: GatorGal
re: freighter Christian

I'm thinking that projections are via Jacob or his mom. It could also be a clue that MIB and Jacob are one and the same, or are controlled by the one true power.


@36. Posted by: Scooby-Dude
re: Airing of Grievances

LoL! And yeah - Desmond has totally become like Abbadon.


@37. Posted by: davidrh
re: consequences of last week’s little ranting war

Hurley - Hurley - Hurley - Hurley - Hurley - Hurley......


@38. Posted by: JG

Here are some guesses!

1. Who/what is Flocke, and what would really happen if he got off the island??
- Flocke and Jacob are both manifestations of the true power - the island - aka crazy mama.

2. Is Widmore a good guy or bad guy?
- I'm gonna go grey on this one. He's a little of both!

3. Who is that little boy running around? Also, I do think it has been the same one.
- The little boy is what eventually becomes Jacob/MIB.

4. I can't wait to find out who Jack's baby mama (ex-wife) is.
- My money is on Juliet. I doubt it will be whatever her name was (his ex from normal time).

5. Are we ever going to see Juliet, Ana Lucia, Eko (probably not), Walt, Paulikki (Ugh!), or Tom (love him) in the alt-verse??
- I think it is safe to say that we will not see Eko or Paulikki. Eko - because the actor had a big falling out with the production team. Paulikki - because no one wants to go there.

6. Is Desmond just going to get creepier and creepier??
- LoL!

7. Who is going to be the next Jacob?
- I'm not even certain that this is going to happen. Seems like it is the carrot tied to a string. With that said, it seems like Jack will likely turn out to be the Candidate.

8. Can Flocke's "spell" on people be broken and make them uncrazy again?
- Seemingly. But I think most of their craziness comes from the experiences they have had. 3 years of solitary life isn't easy to shake off. Being an on/off again torturer/killer also leaves considerable baggage. Normalcy is just not in the cards for Sayid and Claire.

9. Where are lovely Rose and Bernard?
- Adam and Eve? But yeah - I'm still curious as to whether they remained in the 70's or not. I would guess "NOT".

10. WIll Cindy's scarf survive through the epic soon-to-be battle????
- Not only will the scarf survive, but we will see that crazy island mama will in fact be wearing the scarf, which is the true source of power.

Awesome questions!!!!


@41. Posted by: Skipper
re: But Locke wants the candidates to die.

I would assume that MIB has changed his game plan since Ab Aterno. Instead of killing them all, he changed his plan to operation escape, where he kills some, and spares others. I still think this whole replace Jacob and escape the island thing is bogus - "the carrot". They are pursuing these goals, but I doubt they can be achieved.

Speaking of which - it really bugged me that when Flocke and Jack were talking, that Jack didn't question smokey's assistance. Thanks for the water, but did you really need to scare the crap out of me, Kate, and Charlie, when you snagged the pilot from the cockpit? How were you helping me there, you big freak?

#43. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 8:58 AM

I haven't read all the posts yet so I apologize if someone said any or all of these points already.

Regarding smokey as Christain -- Are we sure that Locke can't be Christain since he has claimed Lockes form? We've seen him become smokey then Flocke, so why wouldn't he be able to become Christain too. I personally think that last nights episode was to put to bed who was Christain. ...and maybe when Jack sees him off-island it's his paranoia/daddy issues. Just a thought.


Desmond certainly was all Jacoby when he talked Sayid off the zombie cliff. Haven't we seen Jacob screw with minds like that before. Same off island, he is behaving an aweful lot like Jaocob.

Mac, I think you're right that we may never find our who as on that outrigger. It is possible that they went back in time to an unrelevant group of people, and it was just the writers showing them skipping through time rather than anything more meaningful. At least that is what I'm telling myself.


#44. Posted by: HurleysTheOne at April 21, 2010 9:04 AM

I have been racking my brain trying to recall all the important points where "dead" characters appear. I think Christian appears as both MIB version and perhaps a trapped version (like Michael) who might be on the island/Jacob's side.

Walt was able to project himself (the others asked can he appear places he should not be?. Ben saw his mom - dead off island -Richard was impressed - island power or MIB? Hurley can see more people than anyone with and without whispers. The boy can appear and disappear and is not Flocke.

Clearly there are "other" ways to appear. Sometimes there are whispers and sometimes not. Telling clue like the flash noises? Have to rewatch the whole show now!

#45. Posted by: Addicted to LOST at April 21, 2010 9:14 AM

Maybe Sun not being able to speak to Flocke has some significance. Once you speak to Flocke you become a recruit. This could have saved her somehow.

#46. Posted by: Gram at April 21, 2010 9:15 AM

@#35. Posted by: peterg
Did that mortar strike on the beach kill Jack? Flocke said to Jack while helping him off the beach, "Now you are with me". Made me think Flocke made him an undead.

I like that point, was thinking the same thing last night.

#47. Posted by: 74 aka Steve at April 21, 2010 9:16 AM

@35 peterg

Good Point! or maybe he had a near death experence and he'll have soem alt-world knowledge. ...or stop speaking English.

#48. Posted by: HurleysTheOne at April 21, 2010 9:20 AM

@28: Colin - cynicism aside, you make a ton of valid points, most of which I agree with. That being said (and also being said that I'd probably complain abou some of the same things) it's one thing to complain about issues with the show. Do try to avoid the I hate this show mentality if only because it would ruin your enjoyment of an overall fantastic story. We truly are witnessing a story unlike any other in a long long time. If a lot of liberties are being taken with our ability to suspend disbelief, we can observe the issues but need to respect the show.
@35 - Great observation regarding Jack possibly being dead now! I'd like to extend on that observation and point out that Claire became "one of Locke's flock" by the same method - an explosion.

I'm completely torn as to whether Flocke or Widmore is a "good" person at this point. I think Widmore showed his true colors today - that he wants to use the Island for his own nefarious purposes, anyone else be damned. All individuals on the island are collateral to him in the end. Would the world truly end if Flocke got off the island? I think Eloise is going to have some pivotal position in all of this. Perhaps she's the one who really knows everything and is pulling Widmore's strings but he doesn't know it. Once he "owns" the island she swoops in and takes it from there thank you very much.

Oh, and I've typed all of this from a cell phone!

#49. Posted by: Lostedit at April 21, 2010 9:23 AM

I think the other group with Ben, Richard & Miles are on their way to one of the Dharma places to get dynamite - then go to Hydra. Or am I confused?

#50. Posted by: dk at April 21, 2010 9:32 AM

first!

#51. Posted by: Captain Sandwich at April 21, 2010 9:38 AM

can we assume that MIB was Anthony Cooper when Locke had Sawyer 'kill him'?

That confuses the heck out of me since Ben ultimately set that union up and he was always convinced that all the islands special powers derived from Jacob. Was Ben unaware of MIB existence- despite the fact his right had man Richard had MET the MIB???

#52. Posted by: elturdo at April 21, 2010 9:52 AM

@elturdo (nice name, btw): I've never been able to figure out who/what on-island Anthony Cooper could be. If the MIB rulebook requires the body to be *on the island*, then I'm not sure how Cooper's corpse got there.

#53. Posted by: mac at April 21, 2010 9:55 AM

#35. Posted by: peterg
Now that is a very interesting observation.
The show last night was "the last recruit". Which was Jack.
He must be dead...or the undead.
The so called 'canidates' with him must no longer by canidates but his recruits.
They are the 'undead'.
Lock's body, sayid, claire and now jack.
Hum, interesting...

#54. Posted by: Christina at April 21, 2010 9:57 AM

Maybe i misheard, but did Claire say that she has been with FLocke since Jack et all left 3 years ago? But couldn't FLocke only take this form after they arrived back here, which is about a week ago Island time...?

#55. Posted by: vintage at April 21, 2010 10:02 AM

Great Mac...thanks for a great review...once again...

Interesting about Jack possibly being "dead" and "The Last Recruit". During Jack and Flocke's jungle sidebar...Flocke said something to the effect of Jack being "picked by Jacob". Yes, could mean "picked" as a candidate, but for some reason, I automatically heard that to mean that Jack is the replacement that Jacob picked.

Also, Widmore's geeky mercenaries crack me up every time they pop out of somewhere with rifles a-blazing. I know they are pointing loaded firearms at our people, but hard to take them seriously. LOL!!!

#56. Posted by: Boodle at April 21, 2010 10:15 AM

Random Thought of the Day:

Claire's new personality reminds me of Kate Gosselin.....

#57. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 21, 2010 10:18 AM

I think the last scene was a red herring. I don't believe Jack died from the mortar blast, but rather Locke's comment "you're with me now" was meant to be intentionally misleading to provoke discussion. Overall, I don't think Jack is now zombie-doc, he actually seems more focused and deliberate than ever.

#58. Posted by: Kevooon at April 21, 2010 10:37 AM

Wonderful review, thank you Mac!

#50.dk: "I think the other group with Ben, Richard & Miles are on their way to one of the Dharma places to get dynamite - then go to Hydra. Or am I confused?"

I'd forgotten that...they were headed to Dharmaland to grab explosives.

#59. Posted by: undauntid at April 21, 2010 10:42 AM

@58. Posted by: Kevooon

I also do not believe that Jack is "dead" from that mortar blast, but I concede that it could be a possibility. Ultimately, it is too soon to tell. Two weeks from now, we'll see if he is displaying any zombie like tendencies.

Now if only Dogen was around to conduct a test or two!

#60. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 10:42 AM

After the mortar blast we heard the "deafened" effect (similar to what Kate suffered from in the premiere, but not as severe). That indicated to me that Jack was alive.

#61. Posted by: LockeBox at April 21, 2010 10:43 AM

My sense is that in previous weeks, the leakage originated on the island, where events there affected the alt timeline, but this week it seemed to work in the opposite direction:

- Sayid's arrest in the alt contains him so that he (presumably) doesn't kill Desmond on the island
- Claire goes to the will reading, then gets on the boat
- Jack gets called away from the will reading, then jumps off the boat
- Locke saves Jack after Jack starts saving him in the alt

Is there some kind of struggle going on whereby Flocke wants the alt timeline to become the "real" reality and Jacob wants the original timeline to prevail?

#62. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 21, 2010 10:45 AM

@52. Posted by: elturdo
re: Was Ben unaware of MIB existence- despite the fact his right had man Richard had MET the MIB???

This has bugged me ever since we learned the backstory of Ricardus. Why would Richard not tell the Others about MIB? It doesn't make any sense. Did Jacob instruct Richard to be hush-hush about MIB?

#63. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 10:47 AM

"The plan, chesty, is to land on Hydra island."

Any US Marines out there? "Chesty", like Col Chesty Puller, landing on an island.

Has Sawyer been watching "The Pacific"?

Nah, probably rehashing the Burt Reynolds thing...

#64. Posted by: Robbo at April 21, 2010 10:49 AM

#62, I'm thinking this, too.

Another point:

- Sun is shot in alt-world and loses her voice in island-world.
- Sun wakes up in alt-world and the baby lives + Sun gets reunited with Jin in island-world and gets her voice back.

I noticed the "deafened" sound effect with Jack, too. It reminded me of the opening of the season with Kate in the tree. I did not think that Jack was "claimed" ... but wondered if the blast knocked some consciousness into him. Will we see his alt-self get some consciousness of island-world at the operating table with Locke??

#65. Posted by: DC-Matt at April 21, 2010 10:49 AM

@65. Posted by: DC-Matt
re: blast knocked some consciousness into him.

That sounds like an interesting possibility!

#66. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 10:59 AM

I don't agree that once you have "gone to the dark side" there's no coming back. Both Sayid and Claire seemed to be snapped into moral consciousness by Desmond and Kate, respectively. Why wouldn't James give them the benefit of the doubt that they can and will come around, instead of just writing them off so quickly? Doesn't he recognize trauma when he sees it? And what about Cindy, the kids & the rest of the crew? Are they not worthy of saving? Well maybe not Cindy's scarf...

#67. Posted by: BEMH at April 21, 2010 11:04 AM

More mirroring in the alt timeline: Sun recognizes Locke - she says "It's him" or such to Jin when she sees Locke on the stretcher next to hers. Also, about "claiming" and "infection" - what does it mean regarding MIB. How were the members of Rousseau's party "infected" and is that what Desmond was vaccinating himself against while he was down the hatch, as it were?

#68. Posted by: glostover at April 21, 2010 11:07 AM

@62. Posted by: Scooby-Dude

Is there some kind of struggle going on whereby Flocke wants the alt timeline to become the "real" reality and Jacob wants the original timeline to prevail?


I said this in the last thread. I believe you are correct!! below is my original post from Everybody Loves Hugo:

#331. Posted by: Revelation at April 20, 2010 3:16 PM OK. Now my head is really going to explode!!! This thought just occured to me:

MIB is trying to get home. Maybe His home is on another timeline. The MIB timeline was altered way in the past, and the timeline we have seen leading up to flight 815 crashing, and desmond using the failsafe, is not the real timeline. The pre-815 lives our Losties know as reality, is actually the result of the original alteration back in MIB’s day. By going home, MIB sets the time line straight, and the alt reality we see for our Losties is actually the intended reality. Everything we have seen in the sideways world is the true timeline, and everything pre flight 815 was the alternate universe created back in MIB’s time.


#69. Posted by: Revelation at April 21, 2010 11:07 AM

“I haven't read all the posts yet so I apologize if someone said any or all of these points already.”
#44 - Posted by: HurleysTheOne

It’s only been 43 entries!!!! SO SOON!!!!!! A new Record, for sure!

AAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

#70. Posted by: davidrh at April 21, 2010 11:12 AM

#57. Red...Neck...Man: LMAO!

#55. Posted by: vintage: "Maybe i misheard, but did Claire say that she has been with FLocke since Jack et all left 3 years ago? But couldn't FLocke only take this form after they arrived back here, which is about a week ago Island time...?"

But Claire knows that Flocke is not Locke. Didn't Jin refer to him as Locke and Claire corrected Jin, saying it wasn't Locke, it was her "friend".

I do not think Jack was made undead by the explosion. Flocke's reassuring remark to Jack, "You are with me now"
.....creepy. And I think indicative of Flocke's disconnection from the reality of it all. He appears to believe that his recruits are now under his control.
He thinks Claire will do as she is directed, that Sayid will do as he is directed. My guess is that he thinks Jack will now do his bidding.

#71. Posted by: undauntid at April 21, 2010 11:15 AM

Ben is the only Other who doesn't seem to know the MiB. Dogan and his right hand man did. Richard does. Who ever locked, pun not intended, the MiB in the cabin (yes, that is why the ash was surrounding it) did. Unless Ben continues to play dumb.

More and more, Des seems Jacob like. Making things happen.

Oh and does alt-Jin know English, cause it seemed like it when they were entering the hospital.

Officially, I am lost.

#72. Posted by: Stock at April 21, 2010 11:16 AM

@70. Posted by: davidrh

LoL! I've been patiently waiting to hear from you on this! ;)

#73. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 11:17 AM

Ho hum. Another boring episode leading to an ever lame FINAL BATTLE ending. Still loving it though.

#74. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 21, 2010 11:20 AM

When Jack said, "I don't know what you are." Flocke responded, "Yes you do." and that was that.

The implication I drew from that is that Flocke is the devil. And if Flocke is the devil, I guess that makes Jacob the Archangel Michael.

#75. Posted by: undauntid at April 21, 2010 11:27 AM

I suppose my big frustration right now is with the alt-storyline. I want to make a judgment: is it GOOD? or is it BAD?

For some reason, I'm assuming alt-world is BAD, because it's a "cheat" -- I believe you should deal with your REALITY (i.e. the island timeline) and not escape to some alternative storyline.

However, all season long they have hardly given us any clues as to whether showing up in the alt-world is a good or bad thing.

Did the characters cheat?

Jack got on my nerves last season because he wanted to cheat and simply erase all the island timeline and start over with the plane landing in LAX. Kate challenged him on that -- they would have never met. Jack sort-of justified it by saying that those who died on the island wouldn't have died ... which is noble. But still a cheat.

So .... I realized I'm putting my judgment onto the alt-storyline, but, I can't get a handle on it.

And does it matter how or WHO created the alt storyline?

Finally ... I'm really ready for more clues (or how about ANSWERS) to whether Jacob or MIB is "good" or "bad".

I really wonder if they're going to pull a DRAGONSLAYER with Jacob's ashes.

#76. Posted by: DC-Matt at April 21, 2010 11:33 AM

@62: Scooby-Dude - It does seem interesting that in the ALT world Jack gets pulled back to Locke to help save his life and in the "real" world he feels pulled back to the main island to...what? Was he intending to stay with Flocke? Go find Ben, et al? Open up a Cluck McHugo's Chicken branch?

#77. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2010 11:34 AM

Another one of those "there is no time to explain this to you" comment from Jack. How long would it take to say "We aren't going to follow Locke, we are meeting Sawyer with the boat at a new location", a total of 5 seconds?

#78. Posted by: LovingLost at April 21, 2010 11:37 AM

@53/mac
Also who/what was Walt when he appeared to Locke in the Dharma pit telling him he had work to do. Clearly the real Walt is not dead, and was off the island at the time.

#79. Posted by: BEMH at April 21, 2010 11:42 AM

Administrative note: Google is serving up some real crap ads right now. I just made a tweak to the settings to eliminate those. Sorry about that.

#80. Posted by: mac at April 21, 2010 11:45 AM

@76: DC-Matt - Regarding what exactly the ALT timeline is, an interesting tidbit of info we've gleaned from Eleanor is that she told ALT-Des "You have everything you ever wanted/desired" (don't remember the exact quote), implying that the ALT life Des was living was created and guided to what it is for him by some unknown force(s) to meet his wants/desires for his life, perhaps entirely based on his wants/desired from "real" timeline. Could it be that some force hs been directing the Losties in the ALT timeline in a way to accomplish some goal? Are the Losties in the "real" timeline sacrificing themselves and their lives for the goal of meeting their wants/needs in a new lifeline (ie: the ALT timeline)? Is the idea that the "leak" we're seeing is a breakdown between the corrections of their lives in the ALT timeline and their "real" and soon to be "former" lives? Has the plan all along been to allow Flocke to actually get off the island because, as Widmore said, everything will "cease to exist", but because these parallel lives in the ALT timeline were created, everyone will gracefully "transcend" into their ALT lives the moment that Flocke escapes and everything ceases to exist and Flocke will now be not only trapped but trapped in an existence that has, for all intents and purposes, ceased? Flocke would exist in "nothingness" and the Losties (and perhaps everyone else in the world) would continue onwards in their "fixed" lives because of the sacrifices they made in the formerly "real" timeline. Perhaps the idea is that the ALT timeline is completely hidden from Flocke so that he cannot attempt to escape to it.

Two cents, corner pocket!

#81. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2010 11:45 AM

@BEMH: I can accept Walt's on-island appearances as something different because he was always vaguely labeled as "special." I guess I assume "island apparition" is one of his superpowers.

#82. Posted by: mac at April 21, 2010 11:47 AM

@79: BEMH - I have to say, if there's one thing that's been bugging me, it's the whole "who was really behind a given spector" issue, which you've rightly once again brought up yet another seeming contradiction. There's an awful lot of continuity problems cropping up, especially with the revelation that Flocke was at one time "FChristian".

#83. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2010 11:48 AM

In response to #6:
"...Frank saying 'well someone finally got her voice back', I expected a laugh track after that line."

I feel like Frank is pretty much useless at this point. He has like 1 line per week, and it's usually a cheesy one-liner. I can't remember what it was last week but I remember thinking the same thing.


I was just catching up on posts from last week, and someone said that MIB seemed go give more honest answers and Jacob seemed a bit manipulative.
But I'd disagree, because MIB clearly lies and manipulates people. He "stole" Desmond, hid him from his followers, and then acted like he didn't know what they were talking about when Widmore's people asked him to return what he stole.

#84. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 21, 2010 11:56 AM

@84. Posted by: BostonSteve
re: I feel like Frank is pretty much useless at this point.

When Tina Fey and the gang pulled out the guns on Hydra Island, I really expected Frank to get popped, just to emphasize that they mean business.

Nevertheless - gotta love the one liners of "Chesty"!

#85. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 12:02 PM

#81: LostedIt -- I'm with you. I just did some (quick) reading about Vladimir Vernadsky. Ilana shared his last name in alt-world last night.

Vernadsky came up with the concept of the NOOSPHERE, which basically is "the third in a succession of phases of development of the Earth..."

If the writers are trying to give us a clue here, then I'm going to bite.

Let's say, then, that LOST is ultimately about we humans on Earth growing into a new phase of existence. Eckhart Tolle wrote about how we're all on the verge of changing consciousness, too.

Anyway .... If I embrace that, then I can see LOST's alt-world as this NOOSPHERE which already exists but which is trying to become real. In order to become real -- where we all are conscious of our choices and our actions and our interconnection -- then we all must "die" in our previous ways of relating and choosing.

So ... in this scenario, Island-world is where our heroes made many mistakes and battled hard to transcend their very human foibles.

It's time to let go of all that, "die", and enter the noosphere -- a place where their desires are created and manifested ... and where their human weaknesses don't run their lives.

(My brain hurts).

#86. Posted by: DC-Matt at April 21, 2010 12:04 PM

I have to agree with some of the negative reviews so far; this episode was poorly constructed and frustrating from a writing/continuity standpoint.

Any time the show brings in medical-legal elements, I find them poorly executed and really mind boggling: example, Jack is 20 minutes away from the hospital. Sun and Locke arrive together. When Jack arrives, Sun is waking up in a private room perfectly fine after being treated for a gunshot wound in the stomach, with no damage to her internal organs or baby. Wow, if I am Locke I want Sun's doctor - - stat!!!

The contrived scenes were really annoying too: 1) when Tina Fey and her boys choir with guns confronts Locke in the jungle, that's plain dumb. He is the smoke monster!! He can't be killed by conventional weapons! There was no point to that exchange. 2) Desmond getting the manifest can't lead him to Claire in an office lobby, in the same building as Jack's lawyer. Besides, Jack already knew the contents of the will because his mother found it in her home and read it to Jack. 3) There must be no crime in LA if Miles and James can get a grainy video picture of an unknown man and arrest Sayid in less than a half hour for triple murder.

And the stubborn illogic of Sawyer that the only way to get off the island is by the sub . . . when the people around him know that is not true! Michael left by boat, the freighter found the island by boat, and the O6 were rescued by Penny's boat. It was a weak method of getting Sawyer back to the beach for the Widmore double cross which we knew was coming.

By the end, we just had the deck of cards (characters) shuffled, and instead of dealing a hand to play (real action), the dealer (writers) reshuffle the deck, and reshuffle again, to the point beyond stalling the plot line.

The one key point of the episode, that MIB was ghost Christian, should have made Jack aware that there was no reason for him to stay on the island. His "quest" for his father ended with that information. Instead, Jack does the exact opposite of common sense. He has taken Locke's "sucker" role for MIB.

#87. Posted by: welh at April 21, 2010 12:10 PM

@62- I'm intrigued by your theory. I do love it when things connect!

I've been enjoying the parallels between previous seasons and this, the final season. Jack jumping off the boat neatly mirrors Sawyer's dive from the helicopter (not as sexy, however). Artz demise and Ilana's demise (easy with the water bottle, sister!). The car going into the marina/ Charlie's drowning. There are others but those leap to mind at the moment.

I also enjoy the positivity overall that this blog has. There are few mean-spirited comments between writers and mistakes are gently and humorously corrected. It's been a fascinating community to be involved. It certainly has made watching the show a richer experience when I can draw from your collective (and considerable) intelligence.

#88. Posted by: lardiea at April 21, 2010 12:13 PM

Anyone else catch that Alt-Jack's son's name is David? David Shephard? Is there any religious parallel to read into that? Or just a funny coincidence/play on words?

#89. Posted by: jeremiah89 at April 21, 2010 12:31 PM

Hey, haven't read any of the post yet - but has davidrh written anything yet? Just kidding.

I also want to know why is it that the only place they seem to land on Hydra island is the same damn place over and over. Seems you may want to try another part of the island to go ashore. But, that's just a thought.

#90. Posted by: dk at April 21, 2010 12:31 PM

@ #11 Crispy Seaplanes

Perhaps I can shed some light as a medical student on Jack's Off Island Christian sighting

First off, the alcohol. Let us remember two things. First, alcoholics can develop a couple of things: 1) Weirnicke-Korsakoff syndrome which presents with ataxia and psychosis. It is a very bad sign to see this and can be indicative of end stage liver failure. Mostly it is irreversible at this point, but if it is early in presentation I can see it being transient and cured by elimination of the offending agent. 2) Delerium Tremens (or the DTs) which presents with psychosis and seizures. This is usually from withdrawl in a heavy drinker and also very end-stage. Also, let us not forget that he was popping pills, and considering his suicidility, it was most likely a depressant (probably a barbituate, since bezodiazepines can actually be used to treat alcohol addiction). I said we needed to remember two things. The other thing was that he was depressed. Although rare, depression can sometimes lead to psychotic symptoms.

#91. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD at April 21, 2010 12:33 PM

@87. Posted by: welh
re: Tina Fey

It's only dumb if you believe that their intent was to harm smokey. As someone already mentioned - smokey needs these people alive for whatever reason in order to further his supposed escape plan. So - If Flocke goes all smokey and kills Tina Fey and crew, projectiles are launched, thus killing the people smokey needs to keep alive. This does not seem all that dumb to me.

The point of the exchange was to retrieve Desmond, or at the least, learn more about his whereabouts. If you were in Widmore shoes, what would you do to retrieve Desmond, given that they believe Flocke has him?

re: Desmond getting the manifest can't lead him to Claire in an office lobby,

Indeed - what are the odds that this could happen? Is it really poor writing, or is it trying to tell you something about the sideways world? I'm willing to suspend my judgment on this until we see all the pieces.

re: Miles and James

Honestly - what is so hard to understand? The restaurant, where the murders were committed, is owned by Sayid's brother. If I was investigating, I would go seek the owner, which is what they did. While at the house, they may have seen Sayid through a window, then executed operation garden hose.

re: stubborn illogic of Sawyer

I don't have a problem with this. He lived 3 years of his life where he saw this done for good reason. He is also aware that Desmond was unable to leave with that same sailboat (that somehow survived for 3 years). He's not perfect. He simply believes the sub is his best chance at success.

#92. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 12:40 PM

I have not had a chance to read the whole feed so sorry if I am repeating something someone already said. But, did anyone notice alt. Ilana does not have the same accent as before?

#93. Posted by: Lost Fan at April 21, 2010 12:48 PM

@Gram/46 “Maybe Sun not being able to speak to Flocke has some significance. Once you speak to Flocke you become a recruit. This could have saved her somehow.”

I don’t understand the whole “talk to Flock and you’re doomed” thing, but if it’s true, this could be interesting.

@Mac/53: “If the MIB rulebook requires the body to be *on the island*, then I'm not sure how Cooper's corpse got there.”

Ben said to bring him the man from Tallahassee, but he didn’t say alive or dead. Didn’t Cooper say the last thing he remembered was being in a car crash? Maybe Alpert brought his corpse to the island. So, if Ben/Richard knew about the dead body thing, did Ben know Locke would be taken over? Or just that he would “come back to life”? And, as elturdo asked, did Richard not tell Ben about the dueling demigods? Maybe Jacob had Richard keep Ben on a need-to-know level.

@BostonSteve/84 “I feel like Frank is pretty much useless at this point.”

I was thinking the same, but wouldn’t it be funny if he turned out to be the chosen candidate?

#94. Posted by: Clementine at April 21, 2010 12:49 PM

#17 - questions to be answered.

I would add:

1. What was so special about Walt and Aaron?
2. What is the origin of the "others"? Were they all recruited by Jacob?
3. What is the "infection"? what was the vaccine?
4. Why can't women give birth on the island?
5. Why does the island have healing powers?

#95. Posted by: geo at April 21, 2010 12:55 PM

@#93

Uh oh.
*clamps hands down on ears*

#96. Posted by: glostover at April 21, 2010 1:02 PM

#91. Posted by: LOST_MY_HEAD


... in other words, Jack was a weepy, alkie junkie?

#97. Posted by: sandivon at April 21, 2010 1:08 PM

Maybe i misheard, but did Claire say that she has been with FLocke since Jack et all left 3 years ago? But couldn't FLocke only take this form after they arrived back here, which is about a week ago Island time...?
#55. Posted by: vintage

That is what I heard also, but Claire actually left with "Christian" 3 years ago. So, I wonder if/when she saw the MIB/Christian form become "Locke".

When Flocke says to Jack, "Hello, Jack", I was so hoping Jack would say, "Hello, Locke".

Can someone remind me how Claire knows that Jack is her brother?

#98. Posted by: lovelost at April 21, 2010 1:10 PM

@98. Posted by: lovelost

Claire mentioned that Smokey told her. This was mentioned during a previous episode. When Claire refers to being with Flocke for three years, she means the entity, and not the actual form. She is aware that smokey/Christian/Flocke is the same entity - something she came to grasp during her 3 year crazy binge.

#99. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 1:16 PM

I have not had a chance to read the whole feed so sorry if I am repeating something someone already said. But....
Posted by: Lost Fan

@#93
Uh oh.
*clamps hands down on ears*
#96. Posted by: glostover

o man . . . If I hadn't been away for lunch I would have been RIGHT ON TOP OF THAT ONE!!!!!!

well executed "glostover".

We'll just consider this a moment of silent inner screaming . . .
hhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa . . .

#100. Posted by: davidrh at April 21, 2010 1:21 PM

@93 Lost Fan

I noticed she didn't seem to have the same accent too.

#101. Posted by: zup at April 21, 2010 1:22 PM

@92 shikotee:

Tina Fey's group did not track down Desmond's location, just deliver the ultimatum. Fey's group rushed back to Hydra to be the welcoming party for Sawyer's Gilligan Island cruise.

I guess it could all be smoke and mirrors to confuse everyone that Flocke and Widmore are working together.

#102. Posted by: welh at April 21, 2010 1:24 PM

#28 - I am Sawyer of Le Resistance!

Just so long as he doesn't get the hots for Rene. Um, I mean Hurley.

#103. Posted by: Lost in the UK at April 21, 2010 1:25 PM

I'm thinking Flocke sent all the remaining candidates out on the boat just to see who would return...thus making that person "the one". Jack will be the one to replace MIB so he can leave the island. ???

#104. Posted by: gg at April 21, 2010 2:00 PM

But the ALT Timeline isn't necessarily good for all of them, well maybe just not for Sayid, and he is a zombie on the island anyway. Ids everyone else happier in Alt Timeline?

#105. Posted by: Rudy at April 21, 2010 2:04 PM

@102. Posted by: welh
re: Tina Fey hunting Desmond

I think it is highly reasonable to assume that they scoped out Flocke's camp first, did not find Desmond, then proceeded with their next contingency - the ultimatum. Also, they knew their little stun dart thing would not work this time, because Flocke was there, would not be affected, and would totally kick their asses in if they tried. They got out of there because their bargaining chip was blowing that area up - why would you stick around?

Returning to Hydra makes the most sense, as over there, they have a way to protect themselves from smokey. I would not want to hang around too long on an island with a smoke monster that I have consistently been pissing off!

#106. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 2:05 PM

@Colin: I hear you on most of those points on the writing and production. But remember, it only ends once. Everything before that is progress. There's still enough time for a lot of satisfying explanations that might also shed a different light on the epi's we've seen so far this season, especially the ALT part. I believe we will learn about the origin of the Island, the game that is being played on it, (most of) it's rules and it's main players. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure I will end up with mixed feelings when the show is over.

#107. Posted by: Mischa at April 21, 2010 2:10 PM

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet...(famous last words on a blog so popular and so many posts) ... but, when Locke was on his way to the hospital with Ben he said "Helen, I was going to Marry her" for someone they could contact. Of course that could just be altLocke saying what is happening in altworld... or it could be leakage from the island version of Locke... After his near death experience it would make sense that like Desmond and Charlie he has "island memories".

As always, thanks for a great review Mac!

#108. Posted by: tim at April 21, 2010 2:21 PM

GRAA Mac!

@Mac
"Sun's sudden ability to speak English upon reuniting with Jin was pretty ridiculous."

Probably. Unless her reuniting with Jin somehow cut off her "leak" to the sideways world that was preventing her from speaking English. It would certainly give that part of the storyline more significance.

#109. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at April 21, 2010 2:22 PM

The first thing that came to mind was that the alt is what should be real and so they all need to die on the island and then they will somehow live out their alt timeline as it becomes real.

So they have to stay on the island and die "doing good" so they don't get "trapped?" Not sure how it will all play out.

I'm reading posts about Ben not really knowing the whole story but I keep thinking Ben is kinda like Locke - a sucker who believes in the island. But maybe that is a good thing.

I think Miles, Ben and Richard will find Des on their way to the plane. And then Des might talk them into going to Hydra for the showdown. He might tell them that the plane is not important. I'm sure he will persuade them to do whatever he wants. Although Richard can be a hard sell. He's getting a little nutty (not in the possessed way).

#110. Posted by: jms at April 21, 2010 2:23 PM

Just love Hurley's affinity w/ Star Wars.

Hurley: What about Sayid?
Sawyer: Sayid aint invited. He's gone over to the Dark Side.
Hurley: Yeah, but you can always bring people over from the Dark Side. I mean, Anakin (Skywalker).
Sawyer: Who the hell is Anakin?

... my fav line.

#111. Posted by: dbwebdude at April 21, 2010 2:27 PM

@Alex (Not Rousseau) / #109: Totally agree re: the aphasia representing something more than just a quirky plot device. That's my take, too. I just thought the whole "look who found her voice" thing was a little much.

#112. Posted by: mac at April 21, 2010 2:27 PM

I think smokey is already on the loose spreading all over Europe not allowing planes to fly.

#113. Posted by: dk at April 21, 2010 2:28 PM

#87. Posted by: welh "The one key point of the episode, that MIB was ghost Christian, should have made Jack aware that there was no reason for him to stay on the island. His "quest" for his father ended with that information. Instead, Jack does the exact opposite of common sense. He has taken Locke's "sucker" role for MIB."

I totally disagree with you on this point. I've never thought that Jack's attraction to the island was fueled by his quest for his father. So discovering that the man on the island that he thought was his father was really Flocke actually serves to focus Jack on bringing Flocke down.

#94. Posted by: Clementine:"Ben said to bring him the man from Tallahassee, but he didn’t say alive or dead. Didn’t Cooper say the last thing he remembered was being in a car crash? Maybe Alpert brought his corpse to the island. So, if Ben/Richard knew about the dead body thing, did Ben know Locke would be taken over? Or just that he would “come back to life”? And, as elturdo asked, did Richard not tell Ben about the dueling demigods? Maybe Jacob had Richard keep Ben on a need-to-know level."

Why would Richard arrange for the transport of TMFT's body to the island? Was it specifically to invite MIB to inhabit the body? Why?

What has always bothered me about the whole TMFT situation is: Why would Richard aim Locke in the direction of Sawyer as step-in assassin? To dupe Ben? For what purpose?

#114. Posted by: undauntid at April 21, 2010 2:43 PM

@112 Mac

"I just thought the whole "look who found her voice" thing was a little much."

Yeah. Poor Lapidus. Not only is he stuck on the island but he's also responsible for pointing out the obvious.

#115. Posted by: Alex (Not Rousseau) at April 21, 2010 2:50 PM

In reference to your asking who was Christian Shephard that talked to Sun and Frank in 2007, don't you remember when Ilana said that it was after people saw the dead locke that the smoke monster can't take other forms? so before that, he not only took the form of Jack's dad, and asked Sun and Frank to wait for Locke to show up, he also showed up to Ben as his daughter, telling him to do whatever Locke asks.

Also, off Island Jack was pretty messed up, he was high out of his mind and told that other doctor to bring his father down and ask how drunk he was, so it's pretty obvious he was hallucinating.

#116. Posted by: Errol at April 21, 2010 3:01 PM

So, was I the only one screaming at the TV when Sun and Jin were running towards each other on the beach "NO! The sonic fence! Wait don't do it"

After the incident with the dynomite, I was really expecting to see them rendered senseless and writhing before they got to each other. Is it just me?

#117. Posted by: Wendy at April 21, 2010 3:08 PM

@117

Nope, it wasn't just you Wendy. I was totally thinking the same thing. :D

#118. Posted by: zup at April 21, 2010 3:16 PM

Listen very carefully for I will say zeeis only once!!!!

I loved when Jack looked into the mirror and saw both his and Locke's faces reflected simultaneously.

Loved Sawyer smacking Freckles with the leaf. as waiting for Evangeline Lily to break character and say "Thanks!!!"

I wonder if Jack finding Claire in Alt is what has heloed her break crazy on the island

Like the idea of Sayid and Des working together

#119. Posted by: weepict at April 21, 2010 3:17 PM

No. 117 Wendy:

I was right there with ya! I figured one of them was going to get zapped and that Keamy's words "some people are just not meant to be together" would have proven to be crafty foreshadowing.

On that same note, was I the only one that found that reunion to be a little bit blah? We've been anticipating it for two seasons and it came across as pretty ordinary. I was expecting something much more dramatic (which is why I figured they would get zapped by the fence)

#120. Posted by: Paul_C at April 21, 2010 3:19 PM


@38 et al
I watched the previous weeks ep before this weeks & noticed that the young boy seemed genuinely happy that Des could see him. It's like the boy is trying to determine who can see him & who can't as if that's confirmation that whoever is with Flocke at the time might not have joined "Team Flocke" if they can see him. So far we've only seen the kid when Flocke is walking around with someone. I think Sawyer saw the kid. But I can't remember those who didn't. Richard maybe?

#121. Posted by: Cookie at April 21, 2010 3:28 PM

Why, oh why has no one mentioned to Claire that she left Aaron in the jungle to go have a tea party with daddy at his vacation home. Claire did not seam too concerned about who was raising Aaron while in the cabin.

Kate did refer to finding Aaron and not being able to find Claire, but really, not even a "Where the heck were you!!!".

#122. Posted by: Revelation at April 21, 2010 3:38 PM

@117. Posted by: Wendy
re: sonic fence reunion

I totally forgot about this. Thanks for mentioning! Yes - I felt the same!


@120. Posted by: Paul_C
re: reunion was blah

Yup - I felt the same. They really did not milk this for all the emotion that they could have. It was nice to see - It just didn`t feel fantastic. I think the sonic fence worry totally played a part in this. Also, the lack of slow-mo with tear-jerking music. Alas....

#123. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 3:46 PM

Why does Sun speak in english to Jin. How would she know he could understand her. I don't remember anyone telling her that Jin learned english. The last she saw of him he was yelling in Korean from the deck of the ex-freighter.

Please let me know if missed something. (aside from the cheesy way she got her english voice back)

#124. Posted by: Revelation at April 21, 2010 3:47 PM

@35 peterg et al - regarding Jack being blown away by the mortar blast (kudos to the stunt guy, btw)...

I'm expecting to find that Jack can't move his legs as a result of the impact. Something landed next to him in the sand. Looked like a dural sac to me. :)

Flock carried Jack away from danger, just like Jack carried Locke away from danger when they first crashed on the island.

Now who will fix Jack, hmmmm?

#125. Posted by: Java at April 21, 2010 3:49 PM

Re: Jin and Sun

I was writhing in discomfort during their reunion on the beach, but somehow the scene in the hospital was not as cringeworthy. I couldn't help but wonder if they were really going to be "just fine." Yes, they escaped Keamy and his goons, but isn't Jin still in mortal danger from Mr. Paik?

MIB's shape shifting:

I am confused about Isabella's appearance in the Black Rock as well. It seemed a manifestation of MIB, but her body wasn't on the island. Was her cross enough?

#126. Posted by: glostover at April 21, 2010 3:53 PM

@117
Oh yes--I was so thinking the long awaited reunion was going to turn into a bug-zapper moment. And like Paul_C @120, I was pretty let down by that scene. And puzzled by Jin's promise that they will never be apart again. Considering their current circumstances, that doesnt sound like an easy thing to guarantee....

Long time reader, almost-never poster. I've loved the discussions here and will miss them terribly when it's all over.

#127. Posted by: linda at April 21, 2010 4:06 PM

No. 124 Revelation:
Very very good point. Sun should have no idea that Jin speaks English. She should at least be surprised.

That said, I have a feeling that if we think too much about these botched details (including the aparitions, date innacuracies, etc.), it's going to ruin what has been an overall great story.

I think that the question that intrigues me the most is about Charles Widmore and Desmond. Who is Widmore and what does he want with/from the island? Why is he intent on killing its inhabitants? What is his beef with MiB? How do Ben and Desmond play into this, neither being candidates but both having occupied very important positions on the island and both being of particular interest to Widmore? How does Eloise fit into all of this?

The whole concept of the island as mother is very intriguing. As is the question of who Jacob and MiB's mother was/is. Motherhood is an interesting theme in all of this - Ben lost his mother, mothers on the island are unable to give birth, Claire and Rousseau notwithstanding (I forget if Rousseau gave birth on the island).

I can't wait to see how the end plays out.

#128. Posted by: Paul_C at April 21, 2010 4:10 PM

@ 43 - Shikotee said:

"You forgot to mention that there is in fact no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, and no Tooth Fairy."

hhhhWhat? No Easter Bunny? NO EASTER BUNNY???? *&^*$&%^*!!!!!

Blasphemy!

#129. Posted by: BunnyLover at April 21, 2010 4:12 PM

Maybe Jack was having a psychotic break when he saw his dad off island. It seems pretty cheesy to have two different explanations for him seeing Christian. Well on island it was the smoke monster but off island he was hallucinating. It feels like reaching for excuses for the inconsistencies. Maybe. But I think I'd buy it more if the off island appearances were manifestations of another entity trying to influence him like MIBs mother. Or maybe Eloise has facilitated a way Smokey can get off island or at least project an image of himself off island somehow. To go with a completely separate explanation like hallucination just doesn't sit well for me.

And as others pointed out what about Christian appearing to Mike on the freighter? How does Smokey get across the water to the freighter and why appear to Mike as Christian? Or was Mike just hallucinating about someone else's father due to the stress of being so close to blowing up?

I'm also better with the explanation that perhaps some appearances of Christian were really Christian's spirit appearing. We have seen people see spirits on this show. So if the second explanation of Christian was a spirit, that would work for me better. Though still not sure why Christian's spirit would appear to Mike...ugh I just don't see a satisfactory resolution to this.
Let it go and move on.

#130. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 21, 2010 4:20 PM

Paul C: The giving birth problem on the island only effects women who become pregnant on the island. Claire and Rosseau were pregnant prior to coming to the island so birth was not a problem. Sun had to get off the island before her pregnancy got to the point that it would kill her.

With regard to Sun knowing Jin speaks English...Sawyer was around, he probably told her.

#131. Posted by: undauntid at April 21, 2010 4:36 PM

Jin and Sun's whole story has been one long, drawn-out pffft. That they should have had their ears blown out by the sonic fence just to drag things on longer, while preferable in one way, would have been even more contrived than necessary.

Jack is totally going to fix Locke's legs and he's going to be able to walk again. Or perhaps he'll die, leaving Flocke with no way to "leak" over to the ALT timeline? Would actually be interesting if Jack can't walk after the explosion, however I think the "infected as a zombie" idea holds more water. At the same time I do agree with those that think they won't "go there" on the show. Who knows, though? One thing I've learned this season is no matter how many times it becomes "obvious" what's going on and where the storyline appears to be going, there's another pivotal turn of events just around the next hill waiting to pounce on us. I predict I'll predict lots of things and most of them will turn out wrong. There, I predict that that prediction will be wrong too! ;)

So is it me or are we grasping at straws this week to sustain a conversation? There just isn't so much meat to chew on this week, despite the huge amount of things that occurred on the show. I'm sure we'll find something really good to talk about any moment now, but right now my returning to the land of the posting this week seems to have been ill-timed. Perhaps well-timed, since there's few enough posts that I can actually stay caught up. Conundrum...

#132. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2010 4:36 PM

@106/ shikotee wrote:
"I think it is highly reasonable to assume that they scoped out Flocke's camp first, did not find Desmond, then proceeded with their next contingency - the ultimatum."

Upon further reflection, I think it was not an ultimatum. It was a message that Widmore was ready to proceed with the end game. And when I mean end game, the final "home" points of a backgammon board, which each player trying to win by "taking pieces off" the board. Widmore's beach rocket launch wiped out a handful of red shirt Others. I think Tina and her boys are next. Then it just whittles down to our characters killing each other off.

#133. Posted by: welh at April 21, 2010 4:38 PM

@132. Posted by: LostedIt
"So is it me or are we grasping at straws this week to sustain a conversation? There just isn't so much meat to chew on this week"

Ok, I am with you on this so far...let's talk about some meaty things from last week and beyond.

I posted a theory about the true timeline being the alt time line in Post 69 of this week (also Post 331 from last week.

I postualated that Desmond might be what lies in shadow of the statue (Post 185 last week.

A theory about how Sayid's involuntary baptism violated the rules, so he may not be a full zombie (Post 202 Last week).

The idea Rose and Bernard may be the key to man's redemption because they disprove the man is evil and does not change idea of MIB (Post 204 Last Week.

The Theory that MIB was Jacob’s last replacement theory (Post 326 Last week)

#134. Posted by: Revelation at April 21, 2010 5:00 PM

@133: welh - Is that really what it's going to come down to? Everyone killing each other off until there's only a few or one left standing? I don't necessarily disagree, but at the same time I wonder - how is this progress (in the terms that Jacob talked about)? Isn't this more of "it always ends the same" (as MIB talked about)? As much as D&C specifically went out of their way to mention that a number of people are going to die over the final episodes, I'm wondering how many more people must die before it becomes too much of the same.

Here's a thought I've had bouncing around my head today. Flocke may be a brutal, lying, manipulating murderer, but what if in the end it turns out he is the only one on the island whose intentions are "honest"? Everyone has an agenda here, be it Flocke, Widmore, Eleanor, etc. I'd like to know more about who Flocke really is, understand what got him here in the first place and how everyone that seems to know so much about what's really going on got their information. I want ANSWERS, darn it to heck! [Keeping things rated G for the younguns and because it just sounds funnier... ;) ] Let's storm the Lost set and demand a "back story" book, the complete story as they have it. A good portion of it will never make it to screen. I want to see it once the last episode has played before our eyes.

Hey, on that note, D&C had an interview where they stated that they've given out all of the information they ever intend to give out regarding the numbers. I think it was in the latest edition of Wired magazine, if my memory serves me (it never does, but what the heck). Anyone good with that? I'd like to at least know how the names got on that lighthouse dial before putting things to rest.

Ok, rant over...

#135. Posted by: LostedIt at April 21, 2010 5:06 PM

I am trying to wrap my arms around the scene where Sun recognizes Locke and blurts out... "No... no. It's him." ...and have not been able to correlate any similar recognition with Locke in the Alt-Sideways other than Desmond. I realize others have possibly recognized each other in prev epis, but Ben, Jack and Hurley didn't reco him.

I have really liked the idea that each of our characters has his/her own "Constant" and that is what entwines them in all timelines. Other than the epi where FLocke tries to persuade Sun to come with him to Jin (and that wasn't really a cruelty imposed on her), I remember Locke always being supportive, caring and helpful to Sun. So, is that moment her reality check with Locke? I wonder where that road will lead...

Any ideas?

I also apologize in advance if it has been mentioned before or a theory on that. I have read all the posts and did not find any similarities.

#136. Posted by: dbwebdude at April 21, 2010 5:18 PM

On their latest ABC Audio Podcast, D&C say they will NOT appear live on Jimmy Kimmel's Sunday 5/23 live "Aloha Lost" show.

They WILL tape a segment on Kimmel's 5/21 show to be aired on the 5/23 show but will NOT be answering any questions live after the finale.

#137. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 21, 2010 5:37 PM

@135/LostedIt:

At this point of the season with minor answers but more questions, I don't see a big payoff coming down the road.

#138. Posted by: welh at April 21, 2010 5:46 PM

#93. Posted by: Lost Fan
But, did anyone notice alt. Ilana does not have the same accent as before?
---------
Yeah. So? She also wore a dress and a jacket, not pants and a tanktop. She carried a briefcase, and not a rifle. She was a legal professional and not a bodyguard. She worked in a highrise building, not in the Waikiki Botanical Gardens. I guess her flash sideways was way different than her original timeline.

Here's a whopper for ya. Sawyer? Not a crook -- HE'S A COP!

#139. Posted by: Oblivious Janee at April 21, 2010 5:55 PM

M.I.F!

#140. Posted by: R Wizzle at April 21, 2010 6:02 PM

Am I the only one who has started to lower his expectations of an incredible payoff at the end? Love the show, am all in, but hope that I haven't built this up to be more than they can deliver.

Maybe a few great answers will be better than a ton of so-so answers.

And why the week off...really? Cold shower anyone?

#141. Posted by: giggity at April 21, 2010 6:45 PM

@132. Posted by: LostedIt
re: grasping at straws this week to sustain a conversation?

I can see that. With that said - we have two weeks to fill this thread up, so there isn't really any rush.

To be honest - I think I prefer posting later, to a certain degree. With day #1, so many people are shooting off comments from all directions, and much gets lost and buried in the process.


@133. Posted by: welh
re: the end game

I could see this as a possibility.
"There Can Only Be One"

I don't think Widmore is on side with either Jacob or MIB - He is going after whatever is the main source of power - aka The island. He will use the wildcard to ignore the normal rules of the game that Jacob/MIB seem to be stuck in.

@139. Posted by: Oblivious Janee
re: Yeah. So?

Um......... meow?

@140. Posted by: R Wizzle

M.I.L.F!!!!

#142. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 6:47 PM

I have read this blog faithfully for 6 years (only way I really understand the show), but have never commented. I too have the same questions and wonder about Rose and Bernard. I think the best line was Claire's, "He's going to be mad." I love understatement.

#143. Posted by: Paul Gant at April 21, 2010 6:52 PM

this episode was a strange one but also a very interesting one,
so much interplay between characters in alt-world,
my feeling is that flocke knew where sawyer would sail to & his "plant" claire would be going along for this mini-voyage.
there are just so many twists & turns in the plot to keep up with who is telling the truth, telling half truths or telling bald-faced lies.
P.S "IF YER OOT THERE DESMOND, I HOPE YER WELL BRUTHA"
(no pun intended)

#144. Posted by: san at April 21, 2010 7:09 PM

@69 Revelation

I could see that. The reason MIB wants the alt timeline to "win" is that he wants to go back to his timeline, which split way back in the past.

I've never been 100% convinced that the Incident is what triggered the timeline split. Jacob gave James the pen to write the note in 1976, starting his lifelong search for Sawyer. But James in the alt says he didn't start looking for Sawyer until he graduated from the police academy. If we're assuming that Jacob did not touch people in alt timeline as he did in the original one, then the timeline must have split prior to 1976, because if it split in 1977, Jacob still would have touched James in 1976.

So when did the timeline split? 1954? 1867, back to the Black Rock days? Egyptian times? Obviously this is a wildly crazy stretch, but could the conflict date back a couple of millennia ago between MIB, who represented ancient Egypt, and Jacob, representing the ancient Roman Empire (could explain the Others' and Jacobites' use of Latin, the name Ricardus, Tunisia being only about 500 miles from Rome as the crow flies). Lots of obvious Egypt references, but have we missed a bunch of references to Ancient Rome?

(OK, I'll take my medication now.)

#145. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 21, 2010 7:32 PM

Has anyone noticed if AltDes has "touched" any of the O-6ers in AltWorld?

That could make an (albeit marginal) argument that AltDes is Jacob 2.0.


Re; Frank and his uselessness...
1) who else can fly a commercial aircraft?
2) who else can be considered being "from the set of a Burt Reynolds movie", "chesty", and a source of up-until-recently great one-liners?


@117 Wendy: I was thinking the exact same thing about Jin, Sun and the sonic fence...I told my wife...I hope they turn that thing off in time.

#146. Posted by: Gumbo at April 21, 2010 7:47 PM

Great recap Mac!

Best Mac line...

"Finally. Seriously. Finally. Now stop all this island nonsense and get back to your child. Grandma's pissed!"

You crack me up!

Whew! My internet was down for part of the day. Now I have empathy for all of those who say, "So many posts already? I'll never catch up!" And yes, davidrh, I have read all of the posts.

A few random thoughts about last night:

*I kept watching last night with one eye opened and one eye closed. I just keep waiting for really bad stuff to start happening to our Losties.

*Someone needs to take out Zoe quickly. As pointed out in previous posts, she does not play hard-a** with much authority so she just comes off as annoying. I propose someone tell crazy Claire that Zoe has Aaron.

*I, too, found the Des/Claire interaction very stalkerish and was wondering why in the world she didn't run, not walk, away from him. But, I guess we have to remember, this is the same Claire that got in the cab with Kate after Kate car jacked her cab. Not the brightest bulb in either timeline.

*I thought for sure that Claire was going to go into labor right there in Ilana's office. This would justify *her* trip to the hospital.

*I LOVED the scene between Des and Sayid at the well. The force is strong with Des now, he will bring Sayid back from the darkside. (love the Star Wars references) Sayid will redeem himself by saving Jack or Des from Flocke.

*I have a different idea about the off-island and or don't-fit-the-MIB-profile "apparitions." Could they have been leakages from other timelines? Jacob is another strong possiblity in my mind. If the MIB can shape shift, why not Jacob?

*Finally, bring on the Ben. I love Michael Emerson. He is arguably the most talented actor on this show and I hate the "in the background" status his character has had since Dr. Linus!


#147. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 21, 2010 9:06 PM

@Gumbo + Frank's uselessness.....
Re point 1 .... I believe Sayid can fly the plane. He just can't take off or land.

#148. Posted by: lostsox at April 21, 2010 9:16 PM

So do Zoe(aka Tina Fey) and crew travel between Hydra and main island by way of sub? I guess that would be the obvious answer, but seems unlikely as there is probably only the one deep water dock near the barracks, and might be quite a hike to Flocke's camp(s).

#149. Posted by: mtncbn at April 21, 2010 9:18 PM

One other point...

The thought of the MIB, after *finally* reuniting all of the candidates, looking at Sawyer and saying, "You, take a few people and meet us here. I'll just wrangle a few pokey red shirts and meet you there." seemed very fishy to me. Homicide by Widmore, maybe?

And then the fact that crazy Claire was observant enough to notice Jack taking off? I was sure she was going put a large hole in Kate with that shotgun.

#150. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 21, 2010 9:25 PM

I haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but the numbers add up to 108! Oops, forgot to put a spoiler alert in front of this post!)

Just needed a little levity. Sit back ,relax, and just enjoy the rest of the ride folks.

#151. Posted by: add it up at April 21, 2010 9:43 PM

Hey everyone, nice review Mac!

Some thoughts (sorry if I don't quote anyone, I read all the comments on my phone but waited until I could sit at a real keyboard to comment).

Christian. What struck me is that Hugo warned Jack that he would be visited (no, not by three ghosts, but it was kind of Jacob Marley of him). He says that Charlie told him this. I got the impression that it wasn't a "look out, the smoke monster is coming to get you!" kind of warning. I infer that either the Charlie ghost that talks to Hugo is a manifestation of the MiB, and so is the Christian ghost at the hospital (after all, the smoke alarm did go off), both Charlie ghost and LA Christian ghosts are real ghosts who interact with each other, or they both are representations of some other force/entity. But just because Christian in the episode White Rabbit was the MiB, does not necessarily mean that every time we saw Undead Christian he was the MiB. Also the producers very strongly alluded to the death of Jacob being the turning point after which Flocke could no longer change bodies, FWIW.

Second thought, where was Jack's mother at the reading of the will? I've never been to one (thankfully), but wouldn't the widow sort of be the guest of honor?

Cecil, that is definitely Chinese. Since classical Chinese is the root of Chinese (both Mandarin, Cantonese, etc), Japanese, and Korean it's not surprising you got some kind of translation for each language. It's like if you took a Spanish text and inputted it as Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. Since all have Latin roots and developed closely to each other, you'd get a readable translation for each. Korean and Japanese also use some Chinese characters, despite also developing their own alphabets/characters.

Finally, some of you know I used to live on Oahu. I am going "home" on Friday and have booked a Lost locations tour for Saturday. I understand filming is done so I don't expect to see anyone from the show, but I will report back on anything of interest!

#152. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 21, 2010 9:44 PM

re Sun speaking English to Jin...if memory serves, she had started teaching Jin some English before he went to the freighter. I am sure I remember him speaking broken English to Michael right before the explosion

#153. Posted by: surefoot at April 21, 2010 9:46 PM

@125 Java -
ANTDS (anyone notice the dural sac?)

And...yes - I was totally cringing, waiting for Sun and Jin to get zapped!

Alt Des as Jacob...hmmm
Alt Des able to make his lawyer's office be right next to Claire's adoption agency...hmmm

#154. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at April 21, 2010 9:47 PM

@152 FenwayBen revealed:

>Finally, some of you know I used to live on Oahu. I am going "home" on Friday and have booked a Lost locations tour for Saturday. I understand filming is done so I don't expect to see anyone from the show, but I will report back on anything of interest!

Shooting green rays of envy in your general direction. Keep us posted.

#155. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 21, 2010 9:48 PM

Random memory...

Any SNL fans here? Remember back in the 80's when the Cosby Show was all the rage? When Theo hosted SNL, they did a parody called "The Crosby Show", where Theo dreams that Bing Crosby is his dad instead of Bill. Whenever the family would encounter a problem, instead of the peaceful Bill approach, Bing (played by the late Phil Hartman) would stroke his belt buckle, and insist that the offending child go for a private talk in the next room (ie - the belt resolves all problems).

In any case...

The one thing I've noticed that is seemingly overused by Flocke is his private little talks with various different people. It happens so often, and I can't believe people walk off with him. I'd be like - Yo - um - lets just stay here and talk, OK?

This episode reminded me of the sketch.

#156. Posted by: shikotee at April 21, 2010 10:17 PM

To those who are unhappy with the direction of the show:
Maybe a few have to be sacrificed so that many others can be happy. Myself and many other fans don't really have too many issues with the show and are, for the most part, content with the results so far. Since you can't please everybody, perhaps you are the few and we are the many. Sucks for you.

#157. Posted by: monster34 at April 21, 2010 10:45 PM

I don't think it is anything magical or ominous re: the whole "if Locke talks to you, you belong with him" thing. I just think that they meant that Locke (or, I'm sorry, Flocke) can be very convincing (and manipulative).

#158. Posted by: erin at April 21, 2010 11:09 PM

can't believe that no one said anything about welh's comment (#102):

"I guess it could all be smoke and mirrors..."

smoke and mirrors?! BRILLIANT!!!

#159. Posted by: schmaboo at April 21, 2010 11:13 PM

Would totally love to see SNL do a spoof of the show. They can ask the real Tina Fey to come back, get all grubby and sweaty, demand information from confused Koreans, hurl walkie-talkies at monsters in smoking jackets, and tell Sawyer to get down on his knees with Sarah Palinesque/dominatrix authority.

That would be a blast!!!!

#160. Posted by: Weepict at April 21, 2010 11:18 PM

24 hours later and already we are slowing down . . .

I find I'm yearning for the "good ol'days" with a crisis or two every week . . .

Oh, I didn't mean on the show, I meant in the blog.

#161. Posted by: davidrh at April 21, 2010 11:18 PM

I GOT IT!!! It's all so simple really..

Quote:
"'Marihuana'..."it causes errors in time and space." -Reefer Madness (1936)

Those crazy kids..

...OK, so it doesn't explain everything, but since we do have 2 weeks..check out the movie if you get a chance. It was on
Showtime. It's definitely good for some hearty chuckles...

#162. Posted by: Beth at April 21, 2010 11:41 PM

Last week in Oz - back to real time! I read all the posts except the ones that start with "I haven't read the posts."

I think Darlton really blew it on the script this week. When Widmore's biotch asked Sawyer who else was with him, he should've replied, "If there'd been anyone else, we'd NEED A BIGGER BOAT!" :p

@51. Posted by: Captain Sandwich - LOL!

@55. Posted by: vintage, 99. Posted by: shikotee - Claire refered to him as "my friend," not by a name. I think she's a zombie anyway.

@122. Posted by: Revelation - Exactly. But she's a zombie, so nothing she says matters.

@147. Posted by: lost2theworld - Claire was mildly suspicious, but she's Australian, not American. I've only been here for 6 mos, I'm not a native, but people are HONESTLY friendly here. When someone offers to help you, they mean it. Seriously. There are drunks & perverts & creeps here too, but there are so many sincerely friendly people.

#163. Posted by: hurling at April 22, 2010 12:27 AM

@160. Posted by: Weepict

Out of curiosity, has anyone from Lost hosted SNL? I would assume they have done a parody. Or maybe not, considering the rival network thingy.

#164. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 12:29 AM

Last week in Oz - back to real time! I read all the posts except the ones that start with "I haven't read the posts."

I think Darlton really blew it on the script this week. When Widmore's biotch asked Sawyer who else was with him, he should've replied, "If there'd been anyone else, we'd NEED A BIGGER BOAT!" :p

@51. Posted by: Captain Sandwich - LOL!

@55. Posted by: vintage, 99. Posted by: shikotee - Claire refered to him as "my friend," not by a name. I think she's a zombie anyway.

@122. Posted by: Revelation - Exactly. But she's a zombie, so nothing she says matters.

@147. Posted by: lost2theworld - Claire was mildly suspicious, but she's Australian, not American. I've only been here for 6 mos, I'm not a native, but people are HONESTLY friendly here. When someone offers to help you, they mean it. Seriously. There are drunks & perverts & creeps here too, but there are so many sincerely friendly people.

#165. Posted by: hurling at April 22, 2010 12:33 AM

Just got to watch the episode and read Mac's Key Points. No time to comment now --- well, no time to read the 165 comments posted so far and then comment, but I do have time for a quick

GRAA Mac!

#166. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 22, 2010 12:59 AM

@164 shikotee queried:

>Out of curiosity, has anyone from Lost hosted SNL? I would assume they have done a parody. Or maybe not, considering the rival network thingy.

I believe Foxy has hosted more than once. Click my name for one of the sketches that came from it. Not a parody, exactly, but very funny.

#167. Posted by: Cecil at April 22, 2010 1:28 AM

There ARE lots of great Lost parodies out there. For a good one from Mad TV click my name.

#168. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 22, 2010 1:37 AM

Significance of the sailboat being named "Elizabeth"... that boat was Libby's (Libby is one of many nicknames for Elizabeth, I believe), it was a gift from her dead husband. Libby gave the boat to Desmond and it eventually brought him to the island. The good ship Elizabeth also floated up to the beach camp with Desmond aboard after he tried to escape the island by sailboat, as he arrived, but his course returned him to the island right at the Losties beach camp... and during Libby's own funeral, no less!

#169. Posted by: Pete at April 22, 2010 2:10 AM

@157. monster34: content/sucks

It's not the direction, it's the quality. "Well-constructed" is objective. Now, granted, following the whole Roger Ebert-Transformers 2 blog debate, that doesn't necessarily correlate with "entertaining." But there's every indication that we should fear and mourn a great creative opportunity squandered.

See also bait-and-switch.

#170. Posted by: LockeBox at April 22, 2010 2:15 AM

Off topic and just for fun (because we have to wait 2 weeks for a new Lost epi):

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Answer: go to youtube, enter "Migros Brandkampagne: Huhn" and enjoy the video clip. It's the most beloved commercial in Switzerland (and still going strong after more than a year now). It's really, really sweet. The chicken is named "Chocolate", by the way. ;o)

#171. Posted by: Naike at April 22, 2010 2:33 AM

#89. Posted by: jeremiah89
David Shephard
The only thing I can think of is before David was king (the SECOND King of Israel) he was the SHEPHERD boy who took down Goliath the giant. No one else was brave enough or able to do so.
See any parallels there?

#172. Posted by: Christina at April 22, 2010 2:45 AM

@86 DC-Matt
I think you may be onto something. A quick persual of Verdansky on wiki led me to noosphere and then, believe it or not, cyberspace (whose meaning back before the Internets connects nicely with a Lost theory or two).

@156 shikotee
Yeah, and when MIB says, "Scoobs, you got a minute?" I'd say, "No man, gotta run, text me later...."

#173. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 22, 2010 7:50 AM

Ok...bear with me for a minute....

When the plane crashed (the first time), Locke couldn't walk, but then could when he landed on the island.

In the flash-sideways, Locke can't walk.

Now, is it a coincidence that in this episode, Jack seems to be coming to the realization that Locke was onto something? In fact, he even quotes him: "The island isn't done with us yet," and seems to be searching for Locke-like guidance.

Could it be that when Locke is on his surgical table, Jack will essentially become the island for Locke, and make him walk again?

Is it possible then, that even though we know about constants (Daniel, Desmond, etc.), Jack and John could be each others' constants?

#174. Posted by: Andrea at April 22, 2010 7:50 AM

@28 Colin - It's a test, a suspension of disbelief test. The writers are chuckling as they ask, The Scott Miller-like, "Are you with me?" And we are.

#175. Posted by: robinpiney at April 22, 2010 8:35 AM

@28 Colin - It's a test, a suspension of disbelief test. Not really so far a stretch considering Smoke Monster, island-moving, re-animation, Black Rock-taking-out-Tawaret, etc., etc.
The writers are sitting back chuckling as they ask us, The Scot Miller-like, "Are you with me?" And we are.

#176. Posted by: robinpiney at April 22, 2010 8:47 AM

Fifth best line: "I just shot somebody in cold blood - I needed a minute" Sayed to Flocke

#177. Posted by: thegoadman at April 22, 2010 9:40 AM

The post-well Desmond-Flocke talk reminded me of recycled scene: the one which Henry Gale professed his innocence and gave Desmond directions to his crashed balloon to prove his point.

#178. Posted by: welh at April 22, 2010 9:50 AM

#174. Posted by: Andrea: "Is it possible then, that even though we know about constants (Daniel, Desmond, etc.), Jack and John could be each others' constants?"

I thought a "constant" was a person that you contacted when you were in danger of going nuts because you felt isolated and lost in time.

Desmond was uncontrollably skipping through time, he got disconbubulated, so he calls his constant Penny to ground him in time...so Desmond can calm down by telling himself, Everything is OK, Penny is here in this time, I am not nuts.

If I remember correctly, the only two people we know who have/had constants are Desmond and Faraday. And each of them chose who their constant was to be.
Penny was Desmond's constant and Desmond was Faraday's constant.

#179. Posted by: undauntid at April 22, 2010 10:19 AM

@28

Hey Colin, I loved your rant and didn't view it as negative. You obviously are paying attention to the show :). I interpreted your comments as tongue in cheek and chuckled as I read them. Hey, we all love this show or we wouldn't be here at this forum, the BEST LOST BLOG THERE IS.

#180. Posted by: rainlover57 at April 22, 2010 10:35 AM

@167. Posted by: Cecil

Thanks for the link! I have actually seen this sketch before. Awesome!


@168. Posted by: Cecil Rose

Cecil - What kind of trickery is this? You entice me with Mad TV sketches to lure me to the Fringe blog! I feel so duped.... :(


@176. Posted by: robinpiney
re: test

But c'mon... the episodes have been so un-realistic, lol! I have it on good authority that smoke monsters do not behave this way. What gives? LoL!


@178. Posted by: welh
re: recycled scenes

Honestly - we've seen so much recursion in this show from the beginning, and that you are grumpy, it becomes lazy writing and recycling? Those lazy writers - did they run out of ideas for Jack, that they decided to insert the personality of John Locke? How dare they?

Don't get me wrong - I agree with some of your observations - It just seems like you are so focused on the negative aspects of the show, and this in turn biases you somewhat. Instead of searching for plausible answers, you're huffing and puffing at anything that rubs you wrong.

The impression you leave (which I concede is likely not true) is that you are very unhappy with how things have played out, and you watch every episode under a microscope so as to further your argument that this season blows goats.

Anyways - I just hope you can find some things to enjoy from this show as it winds down. If finding faults is what you enjoy at this stage, then I wish you well with this as well! But it is a glass half empty or half full kind of thing, where the choice is yours.

#181. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 10:38 AM

Click my name, and experience what we were all thinking when we watched the Jin - Sun reunion.

#182. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 10:43 AM

Click my name, and you will have a better understanding of how Sawyer assembles his long-con.

#183. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 10:46 AM

Observe how Kate takes the wheel... ;)

#184. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 10:47 AM

@Cecil

The SNL post was hilarious! Purgatory! I should have know...lol.

The MadTV link didn't work. It took us to your Fringe recaps. Fringe, btw, is the second best show on TV. I'll have to start reading the recaps.

#185. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 22, 2010 10:47 AM

Lastly, see how different the 815 survivors are.....

#186. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 10:48 AM

#181. Posted by: shikotee: "But it is a glass half empty or half full kind of thing, where the choice is yours."

I'm an optimist; I'm holding on to the hope that TPTB will pull it off. Even at this late date, I am still trying to put it all together BEFORE they put it together for me. My perspective is that I am missing something important that will explain it all, rather like The Sixth Sense...Where afterwards you say, "How on earth did I miss that?"

#187. Posted by: undauntid at April 22, 2010 10:57 AM

@147 lost2theworld

"I thought for sure that Claire was going to go into labor right there in Ilana's office. This would justify *her* trip to the hospital."

Methinks your prediction may still come true - they are still in the office, are they not? I'll bet Dharma dollars to EMF doughnuts Claire's going into labor really soon and off to the hospital she'll go.

#188. Posted by: glostover at April 22, 2010 11:03 AM

@188. Posted by: glostover
re: Claire

My money is on Claire meeting Charlie while she is still pregnant. I fully expect those two to hook up in the sideways world, so he can be there for her when she does give birth.

@187. Posted by: undauntid
re: optimist

I think I'm realistic. I look upon this show like something from Agatha Christie, or a Sherlock Holmes story by Doyule. All of the fun is in the experience, and you were never meant to figure it out after reading the first chapter. In fact - you were never meant to figure it out at all until the very moment when they explain it to you.

I think the most successful episodes of this show have been the ones that gave some answers, but also expanded the tapestry in various different directions. As we approach the finish, they are giving us trinkets, and they are bringing things closer to the endgame. The answers in themselves are nowhere near as satisfying as the mystery that surrounded them.

I was pretty critical about the introduction of the sideways world, but I must admit that it has grown on me. My fingers are crossed that there will be a good payoff which explains its validity, which in turn will make re-watching the season much more interesting.

#189. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 11:21 AM

@181 shikotee et. al.

>@168. Posted by: Cecil Rose

>Cecil - What kind of trickery is this? You entice me with Mad TV sketches to lure me to the Fringe blog! I feel so duped.... :(

Whoops, blame Windows Autocomplete for thowing in the wrong one. Try my name now for the MadTV Parody.

#190. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 22, 2010 11:32 AM

@189. shikotee: Christie/Doyle.

Man, can you imagine enjoying those, though, if Poirot and Holmes *weren't* trying to figure it out themselves?

Holmes: Why did you do it?
Butler: You know why I did it!
Holmes: You're right, and I don't even care how!

Ultimately, I'm with you and hoping for an "Unusual Suspects" culmination of coherence and brilliance.

#191. Posted by: LockeBox at April 22, 2010 11:46 AM

GRAA MAc

#192. Posted by: berkyo at April 22, 2010 11:55 AM

@181/189 shikotee:

I am more critical of the episode construction than negative on the show.

187 undauntid:

I agree that show has piled on mystery after mystery, making viewers seek out the clues and answers before confirmation. This blog has been the perfect forum to help figure out the clues, easter eggs, challenge posed science as reality or fiction, and trying to find the truth through the smoke screen of lies.

I know that any past speculation on my part will probably be wrong, which is fine, but I do want the Big Premise revealed and these questions answered:

Who is in charge?
What is the island?
Where are the main characters going (final fates)?
Why were the main characters really brought to the island?
How did the supernatural events (such as the disappearing island) happen?

#193. Posted by: welh at April 22, 2010 11:57 AM

Hey guys, first time poster. First of all, cheers to Mac for this blog and awesome recaps.
I thought in the AU, the reason Des went to go see Ilana in the first place was to get some legal help for running over Locke. Then he decided to help Claire, and was unaware of Christian's will reading.

#194. Posted by: Fazamacaz at April 22, 2010 12:38 PM

It's been proposed that Ben might have been unaware of MIB's existence during all his years as leader of the Others. But what if -- wait for it -- Ben is a spy for MIB!

So far, the only other person we've seen revived in the Temple Bathhouse has been Sayid. What if Ben has been with MIB ever since he got baptised as a kid and he's been pretending to work for Jacob all these years? Think about it: Ben's the best liar around and has played both sides many, many times. Besides that, he did kill Locke and bring him back to the island, providing a vessel for MIB, and he did kill Jacob after all. True, he did seem genuinely affected by Jacob's rejection, but since when do we believe anything coming out of Ben's mouth? Ben could be pulling the longest of the long cons.

#195. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 22, 2010 1:06 PM

I'm assuming that the flight manifest only gave Desmond the names, and then he had to stalk the people. That's how he found Claire. Obviously the manifest didn't tell him exactly where to find her, but some investigation is assumed.

Also, I'm actually glad that they didn't milk the Sun-Jun reunion. Who really cares at this point?

#196. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 22, 2010 1:26 PM

"Christian" told Sun that she had a long journey ahead of her to reunite with Jin. But didn't she merely have a long wait?

Sure, Jin had quite a journey, through the 1970s and getting shot and kidnapped and all, but what did Sun endure besides barren tomato plants and a little bout of aphasia?

#197. Posted by: LockeBox at April 22, 2010 1:35 PM

so, will Ben, Miles, and Richard show up just in time to save Sawyer et al?
Or will Sawyer wisen up and convince them with something along the lines of "How can you work for Widmore? He obviously can't be trusted and will just turn on you the way he's turning on me."?

#198. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 22, 2010 2:00 PM

Don't know if anyone has commented on this. Did anyone get the same feeling I did when Jack and Locke got bombed. When Jack woke up from getting thrown by the explosion, I honestly had deja vu to the very first scene of the entire series! Where Jack wakes up from the plane crash in that haze of fire and smoke and goes to help. Maybe this was an experience that rattled Jack's consciousness back to that time. If you watch both scenes again, you will notice the similarities. Whats interesting, is that I got the same feeling when Desmond hit Locke with his car. The shot of Locke opening his eyes was the exact same shot to when he was pushed out of the buidling by Another Cooper. Can anyone understand these connections...are these the "near-death" experiences that jar the Losties consciousness to where it needs to be.

It seems like everything is now going back to the beginning of the show, which makes sense given the strong parallels between Season 6 and Season 1 episodes.

#199. Posted by: Michael at April 22, 2010 2:02 PM

I wasn't happy with how the Sun/Jin reunion either... I agree with whoever said it looked like they might get zapped between the pylons... and why were their first words in English in such an emotional moment? (if only to show that Sun's language center is functioning again.) But I don't like to complain about anything at this point, because I know how much I will be missing this show and just want to savor the final episodes.

Michael/199: I had the same deja vu moment when the explosion knocked out Jack's hearing on the beach... And when Jack was about to operate on Alt-Locke, I wondered if we would see a throwback to his operation on Ben, where Jack would threaten to let Locke/MIB die for some reason (maybe Des will bust in with some explanation of MIB on the island, which will lead to Jack making some demands?)

#200. Posted by: Clementine at April 22, 2010 2:30 PM

@199 Totally. Brought me back to Season 1, Pilot when this whole thing began.

Two whole weeks!

#201. Posted by: IWantToBeKatesTShirt at April 22, 2010 2:37 PM

@ 28 Colin - I was wondering where your hatred for Lost was coming from then I read your Allo Allo reference and it became clear. Nobody that watched Allo Allo could truly appreciate Lost!!!

#202. Posted by: El at April 22, 2010 2:56 PM

@200 Clementine

It was a very trippy, nostalgic scene. His hearing goes out and he seems to not know where he is after that. I also thought back to the Jack/Ben operating scene. I'm surprised more people arent talking about the parallels here, I remember that being a huge game-changer in the series...he decided to save Ben right? When Juliet wanted him dead. Maybe thats going to affect or change what Jack does to Locke? You're right, we could get a Desmond intervention too. What if Jack realizes Locke is MIB while operating hiim and has to decide whether to save or kill him? But I'm guessing since we heard about Locke's dural sac, that Jack will get his redeeming moment and save Locke's life and help him walk again...for not being able to save the woman after her car crashed (or for an island parallel, Jack killing Juliet). We shall see.

I also just thought this. What if the bomb going off kind of set everyone back to their old selves? Claire was joining the party. And like i said, even Locke appeared to be acting different. Maybe he was truly trying to save Jack because he was the real Locke!! My mind is racing with ideas!

@201 Glad you saw that too! Obviously a connection there then. What if everything is going back to the beginning somehow...just hard to make sense of it all.

#203. Posted by: Michael at April 22, 2010 3:04 PM

GRAA, Mac.

@113, dk : "I think smokey is already on the loose spreading all over Europe not allowing planes to fly."

LOL, I thought the same thing. Maybe the on island reality is finally bleeding through into our own reality ;). Awesome PR stunt from TPTB, they really went out of their way to show the powers of the Smoke Monster, heh heh.

Anyways, I've read all the posts (!) and didn't see anybody mention this. It's probably nothing at all, but I couldn't help but notice something at around 25 minutes into the episode. Locke is walking with his group of followers & Cindy's scarf, and this little kid is carrying a teddy bear (drops it & picks it up again). Then he hurries back to the rest of the group.

Wasn't there something with the Others and kids carrying teddy bears. I vaguely remember a shot of (the legs of) some children walking in line, one carrying a bear. I cannot remember if this had any importance.

Anyone with a better memory than me who can help me shed some light onto this? Thanks!

#204. Posted by: ihearttheweakerthans at April 22, 2010 3:29 PM

This ep kinda - once again - left me feeling meh. Mac's review very nicely done. It was the ep that was lacking.

It used to feel like the writers had too much stuff and they were trying to cram it all in before the end. Now it feels lke they're stretching it out again.

As was stated up above, any legal and/or medical scenes seem to have been written by someone who's never even seen a police or lawyer show on tv, let alone having firsthand knowledge or experience.

Des in the well? How does a torch drop for four seconds, but Des only half a second?

Sun and Jin? Their reunion looked more to me like a couple of junior high schoolers getting back together at the junior prom after one of them went to the bathroom than a married couple who'd been desperately searching for each other for two seasons.

Kate captaining a sailboat? What can't she do? Where's that skill come from? Wasn't she from the midwest? Not sure about that last one. Correct me if I'm wrong but that sail looked furled to me. How long's that gas been sitting in that boat's tank?

My memories a bit foggy...smokey if you will. When Zoe said do you have the target in sight, did she specifically mention FLocke? Do we know for sure FLocke was the target? Seems to me Jack was standing right next to him when the mortars fell...

I still love the show, and will most assuredly watch til the end, but my disbelief is beyond being suspended. More like it's been expelled.

Was that too snarky?

#205. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 22, 2010 3:53 PM

@204. Posted by: ihearttheweakerthans
re: kids carrying teddy bears

LoL! This is Zack and Emma, brother and sister, survivors of 815, taken by Others, watched over by Cindy.

I don't really understand why they even bother popping them back into the story. Perhaps we'll all be shocked at the end when Zack defeats smokey, and becomes the new Jacob. ;)

#206. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 3:57 PM

Speed reader here and elsewhere, but things become a blur after a few thousand comments... so, what I gathered from around the internet is that the rerun of "Ab Aeterno" next week has been replaced with a new episode they were going to release on the DVD box set. It is a Smokey-centric episode called "Reefer Madness". It isn't about Maui-Wowwie pot-i-ju-wana mmkay, it focuses on MIB going crazy (madness) at not being able to cross the coastal waters (reefs).

I live. I ride. I am.

#207. Posted by: Sayido MissKateIsm at April 22, 2010 4:03 PM

@199 Michael

When Jack wakes up from the explosion it reminded me of when Sawyer gets Clare from the Dharmaville house that Keamy blew up. They were both disoriented - which is when I think Clare became the "zombie" as people are calling her.

#208. Posted by: salemcross at April 22, 2010 4:10 PM

Will Sawyer and team be killed by Widmore's cronies?

Has Sayid finally killed the "one to whom rules do not apply"?

Is Jack dead from Widmore's blast and "infected"/claimed by the Smoke thing?

Stay tuned for in 2 weeks we (may or may not) get the ANSWERS to these and other vital questions.

My guess on these is no, no, and no.

Seems like they tried for a cliff-hanger with several characters...

Still loved the episode though.

#209. Posted by: GFish at April 22, 2010 4:12 PM

@205. Posted by: ransomjackson
re: meh

LoL - It seems they are consistent with their legal/medical scenes.

Des in the well?
Yeah - tossing him in head first wasn't very bright either. He's one lucky S.O.B.


Kate captaining a sailboat?

I'd have to look back, but wasn't Sun the only person who had sailing experience? This is why she joined Sayid (and who else?) to surprise the Others at their fake camp. It would be interesting to look back to that episode to see if Kate was actually around, but did not go by boat due to lack of experience. With that said, who knows - maybe she took up sailing while she was raising Aaron? Anyhoots - this bugged me too.

Was that too snarky?

Nah! Just keep in mind that this world is one where the island can allegedly stop guns from firing, and stop people from committing suicide. Just assume it can do all sorts of other whacky things too!

#210. Posted by: shikotee at April 22, 2010 4:17 PM

@206, Posted by Shikotee
Re: who are these kids carrying teddy bears? ----- "LoL! This is Zack and Emma, brother and sister, survivors of 815, taken by Others, watched over by Cindy."

Thanks for clearing that up :).

#211. Posted by: ihearttheweakerthans at April 22, 2010 4:23 PM

Kate piloting the sailboat while running on the engine isn't anything. It's pretty easy to do out in the open water. It's getting leaving a dock and then docking that's the hard part. So, it's real easy to believe that. (I sail on Lake Michigan)

#212. Posted by: dk at April 22, 2010 4:38 PM

A sailboat without using the sail and gas that must be old and motor that would have been seized. The reason why Locke wanted Sawyer to get it was because Flocke can't swim or go over water.

Holes and more holes as the story goes.

#213. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 22, 2010 5:02 PM

I too have only now had a chance to read Mac's synopsis of this episodic plot. It took me longer than the broadcast to relate it to my wife! My only comment until I read 213 posts (by which time it will be more than 300) is GRAA Mac and I admit defeat that Christian was not the MIB (although he might not be the MIB all the time.) Was glad to see Ilana again in one piece. Nice suit too!

#214. Posted by: August Paul at April 22, 2010 5:18 PM

Kate wasn't available to join Sayid, Sun and Jin on their sailing trip. She (and Sawyer) were on Michael's list and were following him (and Jack and Hugo) into the Others' trap.

Maybe the glass is really neither half full or half empty, but twice the requisite size instead.

#215. Posted by: fenwayben at April 22, 2010 5:32 PM

The OA 6 that left the island were all infected. That is why they had visions on the mainland (Jack=his dad, Hugo=Ana/Charlie/etc.., Kate=Claire) once they had settled down. Jacob "touched" them before they got to the island. After they were rescued - it was MIB's infectous nature that got the brain sparks flying and envisioning others.

#216. Posted by: SlappaHo at April 22, 2010 5:36 PM

@undauntid

"I thought a "constant" was a person that you contacted when you were in danger of going nuts because you felt isolated and lost in time.

Desmond was uncontrollably skipping through time, he got disconbubulated, so he calls his constant Penny to ground him in time...so Desmond can calm down by telling himself, Everything is OK, Penny is here in this time, I am not nuts.

If I remember correctly, the only two people we know who have/had constants are Desmond and Faraday. And each of them chose who their constant was to be.
Penny was Desmond's constant and Desmond was Faraday's constant."

I agree with your definition of a constant -- definitely. But I can't help wondering if we haven't seen the depths of the relationship between Jack and Locke as we have with Desmond and Faraday.

Also, I think that being someone's constant also has something to do with a special connection with a person -- regardless of time and place. And this came to mind: John/Jack. Desmond/Daniel. Claire/Kate? James/Juliet?

I just find it interesting...the pairings' names begin with the same initial consonant sound. Which makes me wonder if there's something more to this, or perhaps it's reaching and just a pie in the sky notion. :) Sorry if i'm stretching.

#217. Posted by: andrea at April 22, 2010 5:38 PM

@136 I also really like the idea of everybody having *a constant*. Thats all for now as I haven't finished reading all the posts :)

#218. Posted by: lostncyberspace at April 22, 2010 7:16 PM

@216
Interesting idea SlappaHo

I don't know about infection since Sayid was not infected until coming back...but some similar concept could be used to explain away visions of Christian/MIB off island
OR maybe off island Christian is really Jacob. But Jacob appeared as himself to people off island so why bother appearing as Christian. Dunno. The whole off island Christian thing still confuses me.
All I do know is I like saying SlappaHo. So there. I said it again. SlappaHo.

#219. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 22, 2010 7:55 PM

@213. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL

"A sailboat without using the sail and gas that must be old and motor that would have been seized."

Holes and more holes as the story goes.

It was not so hard to believe that Gas would be just fine. I stopped to think about all the other convenient properties of the island. I mean if Richard could not age for over a hundred years, why couldn't a tank of gas stay fresh.

I'm just sayin'

#220. Posted by: Revelation at April 22, 2010 9:27 PM

#219. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes
I don't know about infection since Sayid was not infected until coming back...but some similar concept could be used to explain away visions...
= =
Agreed witdat. Not "infected" like Sayeed. (evil in word and evil in deed). The Oceanic 6 just tested .. "M-I-B-positive"!

#221. Posted by: Tootsy at April 22, 2010 10:32 PM

As far as the gas and motor for the sailboat, there was a far older and more decrepit VW van that Hurley was able to get running. By comparison the sailboat was brand new! :)

#222. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 22, 2010 11:03 PM

@ 213 The reason why Locke wanted Sawyer to get it was because Flocke can't swim or go over water.

Then how did MiB get to Hydra island after the plan crash landed to become Flocke?

#223. Posted by: dk at April 22, 2010 11:21 PM

@223. Posted by: dk
re: sailboat

Flocke states why he wants he wants to limit the load on the boat - he believes it will slow the boat down. So - he sends Sawyer and Kate to snag it, with the plan to meet at a rendez-vous point that is closer to Hydra Island. It sort of makes sense - I can't say with authority whether it is plausible or not.

#224. Posted by: shikotee at April 23, 2010 12:21 AM

Most sail boats use diesel engines for auxiliary power. 3 years, even in the tropics, probably OK. The way older VW, not likely, the gas would have all evaporated to sludge.(maybe part of the time was in Siberia, who knows where the island was?)

#225. Posted by: mtncbn at April 23, 2010 12:39 AM

Ok, for 3 years Des' boat has been there, not damaged and with gas in it...
why the hell didn't they just sail away 3 years ago? Save Michael the trouble of making one. Wouldn't have lost Walt to the others. So what the heck is with that? If they can use it now, they could have used it then!

#226. Posted by: sweetpea at April 23, 2010 1:55 AM

Sweetpea, if that had known about the sailboat in season 1, then they might have done that.

#227. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 23, 2010 4:13 AM

#189 - shikotee (is that trek talk? Voyager that is...we're all coming clean now aren't we?)
* re: Sherlock, Poirot ("not Parret Sir") I soo love your idea on that one.

#191 - LockeBox
* You make me chuckle

#195 - Scooby-Dude: Ben's Long Con
* This is sooo plausible. Liar Liar Pants on Fire.

#199 - Michael: Parallel times
* Just so happens it's Thurs. and I watched Fringe. It was described so well: Two metronomes set side by side set on the same weight, they are out of sync for the most part, then for a brief moment they coincide...and bang, they're in sync for the briefest moment. It is simple physics that explains the possibility of "leakage", the 'window' for cross-transferance between alternate realities...(crap, I've actually done this, the metronomes that is, not bumping between sw times.)

#222 - Crispy
* I'm soooooooo glad you brought up the Hippy Van scene. Man I love Hurley. (the one where they hurl (gfuhh) down the mountainside trying to start the bloody thing. Great tunes!)It's got to be my absolute favorite scene of the entire show!!!!!!!!!! Thank you.

#225 - mtncbn
* Ok, a couple guesses
Mack The kNife Can't Be Noughty?
MounTaiN CaBaNa?
MounTaiN CaBiN?
Give it up brutha, we're almost done.
We need ya for the MUD HOLE GROUP WAGGLE!


#228. Posted by: tweedle_dee at April 23, 2010 4:21 AM

For those of you who like spoilers, there is supposedly a call sheet for the finale floating around the Internet. Or as Joey from Friends says, supposably.

#229. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 23, 2010 6:13 AM

#228. Posted by: tweedle_dee
I loved that scene too. It is evidence that to me some of the wild implausibilities people complain about on this show are part of what give it a lot of its charm and make it fun.
I get a kick out of enjoying the show and being able to get a laugh like, "Well I guess Kate's a sailor too now!" It's fun!


Then how did MiB get to Hydra island after the plan crash landed to become Flocke?

#223. Posted by: dk
And for that matter why did he need to look like Locke so badly? He was apparently able to manipulate people while he looked like Christian. People who didn't even know who Christian was!
I really need to let the whole issue of Christian's appearances go. It just keeps harshing my mellow.

#230. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 23, 2010 7:57 AM

@223. Posted by: dk

"Then how did MiB get to Hydra island after the plan crash landed to become Flocke? "

I had an idea about that. I think MIB may have attached himself to Locke before he turned the FDW. He was with Locke as Christian at the time, and then he disappeared just before Locke turns the wheel. He simply hitched a ride back to the island in Lockes body. I think this explains how MIB knew what Lockes final thoughts were.

MIB can't travel over water as smokie, but can in human form. Once on Hydra, he reconstituted and took on the familiar form of John Locke.

I know that Locke wants to leave the island, but I believe that he wants to go back to his own timeline, and simply getting off the rock would not accoplish that goal.

#231. Posted by: Revelation at April 23, 2010 8:52 AM

@223: dk - There's this belief/perception that MIB cannot pass over or through water on his own. I don't think that is actually true. Remember, he went to Hydra Island with Sayid, but as far as I know he came back alone (he left Sayid there to identify who/what was in the locked room on the sub). Anyone?

#232. Posted by: LostedIt at April 23, 2010 9:10 AM

Attention LOST fans in the LA Area - Special Opportunity:

From ABC:

LOST LIVE: The Final Celebration

Oscar winning composer Michael Giacchino will conduct a live orchestral performance, featuring the iconic music of "LOST," at UCLA's Royce Hall in Los Angeles, CA on Thursday, May 13, to celebrate the upcoming series finale. The concert will also feature appearances by LOST cast members, including Nestor Carbonell, Michael Emerson, and Jorge Garcia. In addition, a special preview of the penultimate episode will be screened immediately after the concert.

Tickets will go on sale Friday, April 23rd at 10 a.m. on uclalive.org and ticketmaster.com.

Click my name below for tickets and more information:

(Warning: They ain't cheap)

#233. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 23, 2010 9:10 AM

#226. Posted by: sweetpea "Ok, for 3 years Des' boat has been there, not damaged and with gas in it...
why the hell didn't they just sail away 3 years ago? Save Michael the trouble of making one. Wouldn't have lost Walt to the others. So what the heck is with that? If they can use it now, they could have used it then!"

They didn't know the sail boat was there. And if they had known, they (like Desmond before them) wouldn't have been able to navigate away from the island. Whether raft or sail boat...Walt would still have been snatched.

With regard to MIB traveling on/in/over water: What we have seen seems to indicate that Smokey cannot go in or over water. MIB can wade in water without negative consequences, but it seems he can not swim through water. MIB can travel over water in a vehicle and I don't recall seeing anything that indicates he must have a second party with him to do that.

We cannot believe anything MIB says, but if he is really planning to use the ajira plane to get off the island, then he can travel over water. And widmore has erected the sonic fence on Hydra island, so he either knows or believes MIB can get to the island.

#234. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 10:34 AM

@234 undauntid asseyed:

>They didn't know the sail boat was there. And if they had known, they (like Desmond before them) wouldn't have been able to navigate away from the island. Whether raft or sail boat...Walt would still have been snatched.

Desmond was still in the Swan and unknown to the Losties at the time (end of S-1) that Michael was building and launching the raft. The hatch was blown just after the raft was launched.

Desmond ran away from the Swan and (unknown to the Losties) took the sailboat shortly into the bginning of S-2, and was gone virtually the whole season, sailing back into the Losties lives just before the finalyy (first knowledge they had of the boat). Sayid's scheme to use the boat to attack the Others from an unexpected direction resulted in the loss of the boat to the Others (sarly S-3) shortly thereafter, do the Losties never got a chance to attempt leaving the island with it. And by them they knew desmond's attempt had failed ("We're living in a bloody snow-globe.")


>We cannot believe anything MIB says, but if he is really planning to use the ajira plane to get off the island, then he can travel over water. And widmore has erected the sonic fence on Hydra island, so he either knows or believes MIB can get to the island.

Widmore KNOWS - remember the scene with Widmore and Flocke talking to each other across the barrier of the sonic fence on the Hydra?

#235. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 23, 2010 10:44 AM

#235. Posted by: Cecil Rose: "Widmore KNOWS - remember the scene with Widmore and Flocke talking to each other across the barrier of the sonic fence on the Hydra?"

Right you are!

#236. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 10:55 AM

@189 shikotee - "...you were never meant to figure it out until the very moment they explain it to you." EXACTLY! Great thoughts in your post about why so many of us have hung in there, watching every LOST through episodes buth thick and thin. Every season there have been episodes lacking in forward movement. At the time they aired it was like, "What?...," but later epis would reference something in them that was a key to going forward. Many times late-in-the-season epis have slowly put in a puzzle piece here & there then in the last 10 minutes - BAM, BAM, BAM, BAM - pieces filled in several areas of the overall puzzle that had been slowly developing all season and, voila! A bigger picture is revealed! I'm looking forward to that!

Cecil Rose and Fringe Followers - Suprised no one has yet mentioned a reference Walter Bishop made in last week's White Tulip episode. It featured Alistair Peck, a MIT scientist who had apparently discovered how to travel through time. When Walter approached Peck and saw he had surgically implanted all kinds of sensors and wiring under his skin Walter states, "You've implanted a Faraday Mesh!...A shield, to create a temporal pocket around your body. Of course." Peck then flashes back in time. Daniel Faraday lives, in the Fringe altverse!

#237. Posted by: robinpiney at April 23, 2010 12:07 PM

VERY LONG POST ALERT (that's what you get for making me read all the comments before commenting myself :) )

@18, tweedle_dee: "The comment by Sawyer: "The Locke Cool-Aid", I guess you could view the whole thing as a little Charles Mansonesk."

Actually the phrase "drinking the Kool Aid" originated with the Jonestown tragedy in 1978 when over 900 people committed suicide by drinking poisoned Flavor Aid (which somehow became Kool Aid in the saying). Nothing to do with Charles Manson.


@28, Colin: "Locke tells Sawyer to go get the sail boat. Sawyer asks why they aren't all going together. Locke says, "The bigger the group, the slower it moves." I guess gravity has a greater effect on a large object thus slowing down the time that it takes it to move from point A to point B."

Actually, that made sense to me. If you've ever tried to get a group moving, you'd know that it never goes as fast as just one or two people going somewhere.


"I would make an Allo Allo reference here but only a couple people in the UK would get it."

Listen very carefully, I will say this only once! (There you go, neither a UK citizen or resident.)

"Our band of merry morons are in a life and death situation, have been told the fate of humanity is at risk, and they make decisions based on... what? It's all contrived silliness to try and create tension and delay moving the plot anywhere. The characters are morons."

Unfortunately, this is one of the things that especially this season has been really obvious. With the exception of Sawyer, none of the characters is pro-active, they just react to what happens. For a time I thought Sun would be driven to action by her desire to find Jin, but that was quickly knocked out of her by an English stealing tree.

"Jack is back on the beach with Locke. Widmore starts firing mortar rounds one at a time from 2 miles away."

Apparently not caring about the possibility of hitting Desmond, who might have been near Flocke for all Widmore knows. Or are Widmore's (wo)men keeping track of Flocke so closely that they knew Desmond wasn't with him, but not so closely that they followed Sayid to Desmond-in-the-Well?


Random thought: These converted Temple Others are really trigger happy. They seem to work for Flocke 100%.


@35, peterg: "Did that mortar strike on the beach kill Jack? Flocke said to Jack while helping him off the beach, "Now you are with me". Made me think Flocke made him an undead."

At the very least that's what they want you to think of. Just like his sister.


@36, Scooby-Dude: "Props to Colin @28 for a thorough Airing of Grievances. Now let's move on to Feats of Strength and Festivus Miracles."

Lol!


@40, IStillBelieve: "So, my question is how did Smokey get from Hydra island (in Locke form) to the main island (Christian form) to see Sun and Frank and then back to Hydra island so quickly? Was he lying to Sawyer when he said he couldn't fly from one island to another in smoke form?"

I'm willing to suspend final judgement on the matter until the show's finished, but right now it looks like there is little to no consistency to all those little things that once upon a time we thought (were led to believe?) were important clues. I'm just enjoying the show for what it chooses to be, which does not seem to be what it promised to be for five years.

Another random thought: I do have to give props for the way this whole sixth season manages to sneak in a lot of references to the earlier seasons in all episodes. This week we had for example Desmond's boat, Jack jumping off the boat mirroring Sawyer jumping of the helicopter, Flocke coming out of the tent like Locke in his leader of the Others days.


@43, shikotee: "It could be a mere flesh wound!"

Ah you people. Allo Allo, Seinfeld, Monty Python. Keep 'em coming!


"I think many of us are aware of this observation - we just choose not to get angry about it."

It's probably more disappointment than anger, at least for me. The show seems to squander a lot of its potential. It's not so much that I don't like particular answers to particular questions, after all it's TPTB's story and they can make it as they see fit, but it's the fact that the five year built up made us believe that there was this intricate story where all details would fit together to at least some degree. How much time have we not spend discussing over apparent contradictions, thinking that they might hold a clue to the story. Turns out, they are just contradictions or ambiguities at best and there was never any more meaning to them. And that's disappointing. Add to that the fact that the characters the show is supposed to be about don't actually do much this year, and what we're left with is a show that still entertains, but also disappoints. It set a high standard in previous years against which it will be measured now.

Of course if I ever go back and watch the whole show again from beginning to end I might have to change my mind. Perhaps I'm just not remembering everything (correctly) and not seeing that actually it does all tie together.

@52/53, elturdo & mac, re Anthony Cooper: Have a look at Cooper's Lostpedia page. I know it's not canon, but they mention a transcript of some dvd extras in which Darlton `confirm' that the Others off-Island staged a car accident in which Cooper was involved and brought him to the Island.

@72, Stock: "Oh and does alt-Jin know English, cause it seemed like it when they were entering the hospital."

Hardly. He was just shouting "pregnant" and "baby" if I heard correctly, and didn't even seem to realize that the medical personnel had understood him, because he just kept saying "baby", even after they had told him that they understood she was pregnant.


@75, undauntid: "When Jack said, "I don't know what you are." Flocke responded, "Yes you do." and that was that.
The implication I drew from that is that Flocke is the devil"


Because of the Stones? Pleased to meet you. I hope you guess my name. But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game.

@76, DC-Matt: "Finally ... I'm really ready for more clues (or how about ANSWERS) to whether Jacob or MIB is "good" or "bad"."

Why the need for this kind of simplicity? All the simplistic answers given to complex questions thus far (the Whispers, Christian) seem to have fallen a bit short of what could have been. I agree it would be nice to learn more of the back ground and motives of MIB and Jacob, but I hope their not going the good guy-bad guy way. That, again, does not seem to fit with what came before.

@87, welh: "He can't be killed by conventional weapons! There was no point to that exchange."

We don't know what Flocke can or can't be killed by and we don't know if Widmore knows what Flock can or can't be killed by. Having said that, I admit that it doesn't seem like the best plan.

"Desmond getting the manifest can't lead him to Claire in an office lobby, in the same building as Jack's lawyer."

Neither is there any reason Desmond would go to the exact Mr. Cluck's location where Hugo was going to eat his depression away. My guess is we are supposed to think at this point that Desmond somehow had a stroke of insight during his EM treatment and to some degree knows how he can accomplish what he wants to have accomplished.

"Besides, Jack already knew the contents of the will because his mother found it in her home and read it to Jack.

I'm no legal expert, but I can see the need for all people mentioned in the will to go to a lawyer and sign off on it. Right?

@87, welh: "And the stubborn illogic of Sawyer that the only way to get off the island is by the sub . . . when the people around him know that is not true!"

But they need a specific bearing to be able to leave and apparently they don't know or remember what it is (or they have no instruments on the boat to find it, but that seems odd). I think the idea was that perhaps these rules don't hold under water, or if they do, surely Widmore's people (and specifically the one that ends up with Sawyers gun against his head) do know the bearing.

"By the end, we just had the deck of cards (characters) shuffled, and instead of dealing a hand to play (real action), the dealer (writers) reshuffle the deck, and reshuffle again, to the point beyond stalling the plot line."

That I agree with. Good analogy. Let's play already!

"He has taken Locke's "sucker" role for MIB."

He sure has. I have been saying this all season long. Whether he's a sucker for Jacob or MIB, it all doesn't matter. He's a sucker.

@91, LOST_MY_HEAD: Thanks!


@94, Clementine: "@Gram/46 “Maybe Sun not being able to speak to Flocke has some significance. Once you speak to Flocke you become a recruit. This could have saved her somehow.”
I don’t understand the whole “talk to Flock and you’re doomed” thing, but if it’s true, this could be interesting."

Didn't Sun speak to Flocke before she ran into the tree which lead to her aphasia?


@103, Lost in the UK: "Just so long as he doesn't get the hots for Rene. Um, I mean Hurley."

Ooooohhhh 'Ugó!

@106, shikotee: "Tina Fey hunting Desmond"

New on ABC, "Tina Fey: Philosopher Hunter"! This Saturday Night, follow Tina Fey live as she goes out to rid our planet from our most prolific and deep thinkers. First up, mr. Hume!
`Mr. Hume, how do you feel about being hunted by Ms. Fey?'
`I say, bring it on! No one thought I could outconsume Wilhem Friedrich Hegel either, but I pulled that one of as well! Tina Fey, pfff... she just makes me laugh!'

@117, Wendy: "So, was I the only one screaming at the TV when Sun and Jin were running towards each other on the beach "NO! The sonic fence! Wait don't do it""

No, same here. (Well, I wasn't screaming, but I was thinking it.)

@122, Revelation: "Why, oh why has no one mentioned to Claire that she left Aaron in the jungle to go have a tea party with daddy at his vacation home. Claire did not seam too concerned about who was raising Aaron while in the cabin."

I was thinking the same thing. Claire talks about when the Losties abandoned her, but of course in reality she abandoned them and Aaron. Perhaps it's not the best thing to bring up when in the presence of crazy mommy.

@123, shikotee: "Yup - I felt the same. They really did not milk this for all the emotion that they could have. It was nice to see - It just didn`t feel fantastic. I think the sonic fence worry totally played a part in this. Also, the lack of slow-mo with tear-jerking music. Alas...."

I liked that they underplayed it. After all the ridiculousness of weeks past here we finally had a moment that only depended on how much we actually still care about these characters instead of some silly gimmick. Turns out, I still care. It wasn't the best scene ever, but it worked for me.

@125, Java: "I'm expecting to find that Jack can't move his legs as a result of the impact. Something landed next to him in the sand. Looked like a dural sac to me. :)"

Interesting thought Java!

@145, Scooby-Dude: "Obviously this is a wildly crazy stretch, but could the conflict date back a couple of millennia ago between MIB, who represented ancient Egypt, and Jacob, representing the ancient Roman Empire"

Perhaps MIB is Cleopatra and Jacob Mark Anthony and the Losties are just caught in a really bad domestic fight.

@152, FenwayBen: "after all, the smoke alarm did go o"

I forgot about that. Hmmm... what to make of that now. Do'h! There I go again, trying to make sense of the details. Bad Plain Simple, bad!

"Finally, some of you know I used to live on Oahu. I am going "home" on Friday and have booked a Lost locations tour for Saturday"

Enjoy!

@156, shikotee: "The one thing I've noticed that is seemingly overused by Flocke is his private little talks with various different people. It happens so often, and I can't believe people walk off with him. I'd be like - Yo - um - lets just stay here and talk, OK?"

Well, since it happens so often and nothing bad seems to happen during these talks, I guess the Losties don't have any particular reason not to talk to him. I mean, apart from the reasons not to be with him in the first place. Remember, they don't know what he did to Des, or even that Des is back on the Island.

@167, Cecil: Lol!

@174, Andrea: "Could it be that when Locke is on his surgical table, Jack will essentially become the island for Locke, and make him walk again?"

Jack is the Island? I wonder what the FDW is then.

@195, Scooby-Dude: "So far, the only other person we've seen revived in the Temple Bathhouse has been Sayid. What if Ben has been with MIB ever since he got baptised as a kid and he's been pretending to work for Jacob all these years?"

So why would Richard and the Temple Others recruit for MIB? Or perhaps they don't know that the Wacky Whirlpool whisks one to Whisper World?

@199, Michael: "Can anyone understand these connections"
...
"It seems like everything is now going back to the beginning of the show, which makes sense given the strong parallels between Season 6 and Season 1 episodes."

I think you just answered your own question.


@202, El: "Nobody that watched Allo Allo could truly appreciate Lost!!!"

You stupid (wo)man! ...... (Before anyone goes off thinking I'm serious here, brush up on your Allo Allo quotes.)

On a more serious note though, why do so many posters feel the need to comment on Colin's post without addressing his actual points? Are you so insecure in your own appreciation of Lost that you don't want to hear anything negative about it? Sure, his post seemed a bit snarky, but so what? Perhaps it was intentional, perhaps it's the usual lack of body language that prevents us to see his real intentions more clearly, it hardly matters. He makes some good points that could be discussed, instead of just focussing on his apparent negativity.

@205, ransomjackson: "As was stated up above, any legal and/or medical scenes seem to have been written by someone who's never even seen a police or lawyer show on tv, let alone having firsthand knowledge or experience."

You can't hardly blame television writers for not having "first hand knowledge or experience" with medical (or legal) issues. Second hand would do just fine.

"Des in the well? How does a torch drop for four seconds, but Des only half a second?"

Ooh, riddles... mmmm... Des is magnetized by Widmores contraption and was pulled towards the pocket of EM energy down the well? Did I win, did I win? ;) Ad hoc rationalization for dummies!

@224, shikotee: "Flocke states why he wants he wants to limit the load on the boat - he believes it will slow the boat down. So - he sends Sawyer and Kate to snag it, with the plan to meet at a rendez-vous point that is closer to Hydra Island. It sort of makes sense - I can't say with authority whether it is plausible or not."

O, so it wasn't just the group size dragging down the travelling, but specifically using the boat to bring them all to Hydra Island? Too much mass?

@230, Crispy Seaplanes: "I get a kick out of enjoying the show and being able to get a laugh like, "Well I guess Kate's a sailor too now!" It's fun!"

It all depends on what show they want to tell. Do they want to tell a show that's funny and wacky and where, hey, this week Kate's a sailor too? If so then fine. But as I understood they claim the show is all about the characters, so at least they can try to write some consistent characters --- and have them actually do something for a change! I actually liked that Sawyer got off his ass this week and did something, no matter how ill conceived it might have been.


@237, robinpiney: "When Walter approached Peck and saw he had surgically implanted all kinds of sensors and wiring under his skin Walter states, "You've implanted a Faraday Mesh!...A shield, to create a temporal pocket around your body. Of course." Peck then flashes back in time. Daniel Faraday lives, in the Fringe altverse!"

Click my name and enjoy.

#238. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 23, 2010 12:58 PM

********SHORT POST ALERT*********

Whew!

#239. Posted by: davidrh at April 23, 2010 1:38 PM

I love this show and that won't change. But I will admit to some disappointments along the way especially this season. The explanation of Christian sightings keeps sticking with me.
Some seem to want to let this ruin their enjoyment of the series as a whole. I'm trying not to do that.
It reminds me a bit of the Star Wars prequels. Many look only at their faults and want to throw them out altogether. Personally I find much to like about them and try really hard to enjoy them despite their many inconsistencies with the other movies. How is Obi Wan so old in Episode 4 considering it takes place only about 20 years after part 3? Midi-chlorians?Really? Why does Leia have memories of her mother in Jedi though her mother dies in childbirth in Revenge of the Sith? Its like we're supposed to just ignore these inconsistencies and go with it. Most of the time I'm ok with doing that and can overlook them to enjoy the whole. It doesn't make me wish any less that the writers of Lost and Lucas in the case of StarWars would have paid more attention to these details as we did and truly tie it together. Rather than make inconsistencies, just leave them unexplained. Doing so could make something I've enjoyed so much become even greater. So I see both sides. I can see why some are angry or just disappointed and I can see why some want to just blindly enjoy the show without question. I find myself vacillating wildly among all these feelings. One thing I do know is I don't think I've ever felt this invested in a tv show and I doubt I ever will again.
That in itself probably makes Lost a success.

#240. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 23, 2010 2:01 PM

@237 robinpiney observed (not to accuse you of being an "Observer", or anything):

Cecil Rose and Fringe Followers - Suprised no one has yet mentioned a reference Walter Bishop made in last week's White Tulip episode. It featured Alistair Peck, a MIT scientist who had apparently discovered how to travel through time. When Walter approached Peck and saw he had surgically implanted all kinds of sensors and wiring under his skin Walter states, "You've implanted a Faraday Mesh!...A shield, to create a temporal pocket around your body. Of course." Peck then flashes back in time. Daniel Faraday lives, in the Fringe altverse!

I believe the reference was o the original scientist *Michael* Faraday, who observed that electical charge on a metal shell remains in the outside and does not penetrate the interior, which is why an automobile is a good place to be in a lighning storm. The usual term is a Faraday Cage.

Of course a protection from "temporal" rather than electical energy is a bit of scientific extrapolation.

Lost's own *Daniel* Faraday's name is believed to be a nod to the original.

Of course since Fringe, like Lost, is a JJ Abrams creation, the refereance might have had a dual meaning.

There have been a number of convergences with Lost between both Fringe and House lately, and I've remarked on them in reviews. (None in Survivor, yet). The review for "White Tulip" is up.

#241. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 23, 2010 2:22 PM

#240/ Crispy Seaplanes

I agree.

When Roddenberry created Star Trek, he complied a "bible" to explain his sci-fi worlds, and the head writer was responsible to make sure the scripts were true to his continuity bible.

Part of the Lost viewer issues may be caused by the rush in creating the pilot episode, and the show taking turns from being a drama, to science fiction, to now possibly being a fantasy show (cue Willie Wonka soundtrack).

#242. Posted by: welh at April 23, 2010 2:57 PM

That is a great point of how it has been and can be done right. Star Trek has done a good job over decades and many different incarnations to try to remain consistent as much as possible as a way of rewarding their die hard fans for their scrutiny. Small things will always be missed, but when things that at least at one time seem like big issues just get ignored and dismissed, it is tough to overlook as a fan.
I'm still hopeful Lost will have such an epic send off that these types of inconsistencies don't seem too important overall.

#243. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 23, 2010 3:09 PM

This must be the 815th time that I've started a comment about how I feel about certain developments on or aspects of this show, and changed my mind after like, 30 seconds.

I need to get a girlfriend. I'm going out for a beer.

#244. Posted by: Mischa at April 23, 2010 3:10 PM

@ 224/Shikotee:

I really think you misunderstood. FLocke's concern was how long it would take a large group, including children, to walk all the way to the boat. It's like if you're at the mall with your grandma or baby (insert any other slow moving person here) and one person runs ahead to the parking lot and brings the car around to the entrance, that way the entire (slow moving) group does not have to trek out to the parking lot.

#245. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 23, 2010 3:39 PM

@#226. Posted by: sweetpea
Desmond did try to sail away, but ended up back on the island, saying something to the effect of... "The ISland is a bloody snow globe!". He couldn't sail out at all.....

#246. Posted by: vintage at April 23, 2010 4:07 PM

#246,etc
I was wondering why they didn't use the boat when they were shuttling groups of people to the freighter on the raft. They had the coordinates at that point so couldn't they have just left on it then?

Unrelated - I'm also curious about a comment Richard made. Didn't Sun show him a photo with Jin in it last season and ask if he saw him? I thought he responded that all the people in that photo died. Was it ever addressed as to what he meant? He saw them all again recently and I don't recall him appearing surprised that they were still alive.

#247. Posted by: gris at April 23, 2010 4:16 PM

@247 gris wondered:

>I was wondering why they didn't use the boat when they were shuttling groups of people to the freighter on the raft. They had the coordinates at that point so couldn't they have just left on it then?

At that point the Others had taken the boat.

>Unrelated - I'm also curious about a comment Richard made. Didn't Sun show him a photo with Jin in it last season and ask if he saw him? I thought he responded that all the people in that photo died. Was it ever addressed as to what he meant? He saw them all again recently and I don't recall him appearing surprised that they were still alive.

Good point. Could it be that we're wrong about which is the reality stemming from Jughead going off?

#248. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 23, 2010 4:45 PM

@ dez gruntled #5 A little over the top I would say. I think Jack is only responding to something he feels coming from the island and not from Flocke whom he has made no bones about not trusting. I don't completely agree with Mac's view of his blamelessness in the death of Juliet, but at that point he was taking what he thought was the necessary step to put their universe back on its course. I would be pretty passive and dispirited myself at this point. But I don't think he is joining Flocke. In fact he made it pretty clear that he wants to prevent Flocke from escaping.

@BEMH #57 re the dawning of Sayid & Claire. I noted that as well and agree with you but as I have mentioned in past posts, I am a sucker for redemption. The enlightenment on Claire's face was very noticeable. I think she is a very good actress. She can certainly be really, really creepy & scary. She'd be great in a remake of Fatal Attraction

@glostover #68 I too feel this is one of the ten big questions: What is the infection? Is it smokey taking over your soul as in Claire & Sayid and Rousseau's research party? Both Dharma and Others people have shown violent, murderous tendencies, most notably Widmore husband and wife, Radzinksy, Michael, not to mention Ben and the Dharma genocide. Were they all "infected"

#249. Posted by: August Paul at April 23, 2010 4:54 PM

#245. Posted by: FenwayBen: Exactly so!

Plain Simple: lol, No, I wasn't thinking of the Stones, although it sure fits!

Considering Jack is certain Flocke is not only not Locke, but not a person ("I don't know what you are.") I just can't think of an idenity other than the devil which would allow Flocke to respond to Jack with, "Yes you do" (know what I am) and also which Jack would accept without further question.

And...the fact that Flocke's answer to Jack permitted Flocke to avoid giving his name which fits the devil mythology.

With regard to the inclination to suspend belief and go with the flow: It helps to have watched a soap for years (Days of Our Lives) where three different guys have been Roman and one of them use to be someone else entirely on the same soap!

#250. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 4:54 PM

@BEMH #79 "Also, who/what was Walt when he appeared to Locke..." This brings up the subject again, which has been discussed at great length on this blog in previous episodes, namely, what are manifestations (Flocke and the now admitted Christian leading Jack to water, maybe the jungle boy) and what are visions (Walt talking to Locke in the pit, Horace Goodspeed talking loopily to Locke, Walt talking backwards to Shannon, and possibly many more) and what are ghosts (whom Hurley sees a plenty.) I think that only the manifestations will be explained to us. And Jacob talking to Hurley could be any of the above. I know I'm repeating here but only because it seems such an unresolved plot problem in spite of all our ideas.

#251. Posted by: August Paul at April 23, 2010 5:14 PM

@146 Gumbo - I'm pretty sure that Jack has taken some flying lessons... Not that I really think they'll be able to leave the island

@187 undauntid - I agree, but for the life of me can't figure out what is so obivious that we've ALL missed it :)

#252. Posted by: lostncyberspace at April 23, 2010 5:15 PM

#247. Posted by: gris: "I'm also curious about a comment Richard made. Didn't Sun show him a photo with Jin in it last season and ask if he saw him? I thought he responded that all the people in that photo died. Was it ever addressed as to what he meant? He saw them all again recently and I don't recall him appearing surprised that they were still alive."

I don't remember that. What group photo did she show Richard?

#253. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 5:18 PM

IMO, when Christian appeared off island to Jack, it was actually Jacob (or his agent/ally) simply because MIB can't leave the island. I’m also inclined to believe that Jacob has used Christian’s body on island (to Vincent and on the freighter to Michael). I think that Ana Lucia and Charley off island were both Jacob. Remember, Jacob is trying to manipulate the Candidates/Losties just as much as MIB. I think Jacob appeared to the Candidates in other forms rather than as himself to be more persuasive and get them to make the moves he wants. We know the MIB can only take the form of a dead person on the island, but I think Jacob can take the form of either a living person or dead person either on island or off. I think it was also Jacob who appeared as Walt to Locke when he was in the pit of dead people. Remember this dialogue:
LOCKE: He shot me and I can't, move my legs.
WALT: You can move your legs. Now get out of the ditch, John.
LOCKE: Why?
WALT: Because, you have work to do.

And Ana Lucia to Hurley:
ANA LUCIA: You didn't think. What if I were real? What if a real cop stopped you? They already have pictures of you covered in blood with a gun in your hand.
HURLEY: Actually, it's ketchup. We went to a--a drive-thru, and, uh...
ANA LUCIA: Well, you need to pull it together. You've got a lot of work to do.

And this from the pilot:
It is Christian Shephard, who calls the Labrador closer. Christian wears white tennis shoes. He tells Vincent to go wake up his son, who is unconscious and not far away. As the dog trots off, Christian adds, "He has work to do."


Just my opinion.

#254. Posted by: srharmon at April 23, 2010 5:31 PM

@245. Posted by: FenwayBen

Upon reviewing the scene, either or scenario can work. When Sawyer asks Flocke why they don't all head to the boat, Flocke replies "The bigger the group, the slower it moves." "It" could refer to the group, or "it" could refer to the boat.

I initially thought it referred to the group, but on 2nd viewing, determined it could be referring to the boat.

The easiest way to resolve this would be to see a map, and get an idea of the distance relativity.

Not really worth it though, as it is a small minute point.

#255. Posted by: shikotee at April 23, 2010 5:31 PM

@253. Posted by: undauntid

"I don't remember that. What group photo did she show Richard? "

I think it was the photo taken of the new recruits in 1977 with the big "NAMASTE" banner above it. The one that Christian(manifestation) showed her in the remnants of the Dharma induction center.

#256. Posted by: Revelation at April 23, 2010 5:32 PM

#251. August Paul: Your references to Walt talking backwards and the oddly looping Horace Goodspeed ... When I see them next to each other like that it gets more difficult to reject the possibility that some of the "manifestations" are mechanical projections of some kind. And the Hurley bird too, that was a very strange bird!

#257. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 5:33 PM

@ shikotee #92 "re: Desmond getting the manifest can't lead him to Claire in an office lobby, Indeed - what are the odds that this could happen? Is it really poor writing, or is it trying to tell you something about the sideways world? I'm willing to suspend my judgment on this until we see all the pieces." I have concluded that Desmond's Magnetic Bottle experiment coupled with whatever abilities he had left over from his previous time jumping experiences and his turning the key magnetic experience have now rendered him, are we ready for this,.... Deus Ex Machina!!! (Des ex machina?) As DEM/Des he is now able to do all sorts of super powerful things like instantly know who Claire is and where she ought to be and with that boyish charm (which some have labeled as Mr. creepy) persuades her to be there. It could well be that this show with have more than one Deus Ex Machina, but no good epic should be without one.

#258. Posted by: August Paul at April 23, 2010 5:35 PM

To Revelation @ 256: Thank you! If that is the photo Sun showed Richard and Richard actually said all the people in that photo are dead, then I'm bewildered! Because clearly, they are not all dead...yet.

#259. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 5:46 PM

#253. Posted by: undauntid; #256. Posted by: Revelation
Yes, I was referring to the photo that Christian Shephard showed to Sun and Frank from 1977. She must have taken it with her back to camp.

#260. Posted by: gris at April 23, 2010 5:47 PM

@251 and 257 -- the oddly looping Horace was in Locke's dream not an actual occurrence.

#261. Posted by: srharmon at April 23, 2010 7:02 PM

#261. Posted by: srharmon: "the oddly looping Horace was in Locke's dream not an actual occurrence."

No kidding? lmao. My memory absolutely sucks!

#262. Posted by: undauntid at April 23, 2010 7:27 PM

Don't worry undauntid, my memory sucks too but luckily we have srharmon's (#254) memory to make up for it. Thanks for putting together the "work to do" quotes. Makes sense that if MIB can impersonate people, why not Jacob, too?

I remember the scene where Richard is shown the "class picture" of the losties as Dharma recruits. He said something like "I watched them all die." Chilling at the time, but I wonder when that happened?

#263. Posted by: glostover at April 23, 2010 9:26 PM

@238: Plain Simple - Ok, that had to be the longest post I've ever seen, hands down. That was like 10 posts. How did you even find the time to write that much stuff, and how am I going to find the time to read it?!?! ;)

#264. Posted by: LostedIt at April 23, 2010 10:32 PM

Quite a few people felt the reunion between island Sun and island Jin after three years of separation was blah, but I don't know how it could have been done better. Would we have preferred a slo-mo running toward each other, arms outstretched with Chariots of Fire music? It looked convincing enough for me. And past comments on the source of Sun's loss of English also indicated that it could return any time and the shock of seeing her husband again could be such a trigger. I haven't been paying attention to who has spoken to Locke and who hasn't. When exactly was the rule about not talking to MIB (as opposed to not listening to him) enunciated?

#265. Posted by: August Paul at April 23, 2010 10:34 PM

@265. by: August Paul

re: Sun/Jin...Would we have preferred a slo-mo running toward each other, arms outstretched with Chariots of Fire music?
+++++
Hell yeah.

Better yet. Make it a Bo Derek beach run from "10" (Sun!... not Gin) and a bed romp to Ravel's "Bolero". (again... not Gin, but me.)

#266. Posted by: RebBloodedBoy at April 23, 2010 10:58 PM

Guys,
1 - Jack can't die, remember his experience with Richard and the dynamite that won't explode.
2 - I think Desmond was killed, Flocke turned into his form, tricked and defeated Whitmore and left the island with the crew.
3 - and that's why everybody is back to the real world and Abbaddon is so creepy, ater all he is the smokey villain.
Cheers,
Sergio

#267. Posted by: Sergio Almeida at April 23, 2010 11:28 PM

#254. Posted by: srharmon

I really hope something like this turns out to be the case and that they aren't done with explaining Christian appearances.

#268. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 23, 2010 11:43 PM

Thank you, Mac Slocum, for providing this wonderful forum for all of us to reflect, vent, theorize, chide and wax poetic about LOST!

@238 Plain Simple - Plain Classic!
I especially appreciated the "Sympathy for the Devil" reference and "Tina Fey-Philosopher Hunter" and my direction to The Faraday Cage - muy enjoyable! After reading the Wiki entry, I realize knowledge of Michael Faraday was swimming around way in the back of my gray matter, but it was the "temporal pocket" part of Walter's comment that I connected (and feel the writer did, as well) with Daniel Faraday.

Keep it up, folks!

#269. Posted by: robinpiney at April 24, 2010 12:21 AM

What does GRAA, Mac mean?

#270. Posted by: spoilerquest at April 24, 2010 12:57 AM

@254 srharmon: "And this from the pilot:
It is Christian Shephard, who calls the Labrador closer. Christian wears white tennis shoes. He tells Vincent to go wake up his son, who is unconscious and not far away. As the dog trots off, Christian adds, "He has work to do.""

I think this actually is from one of the webisodes? But good catch on the work-to-do similarities. However, it seems very unlikely that the off-Island appearances were MIB, unless MIB managed to sneak off-Island but could manifest itself only to the O6. Perhaps that's why Smokey needs this elaborate set-up to get off the Island, something has to happen for it to be able to freely roam the outside world and not just as an appendix of the O6. Jack had his appendix removed (brought to you by Free Associations inc.)


@258, August Paul: "Des ex machina"

Heheh.


@264, LostedIt: "@238: Plain Simple - Ok, that had to be the longest post I've ever seen, hands down. That was like 10 posts. How did you even find the time to write that much stuff, and how am I going to find the time to read it?!?! ;)"

I usually have a little text editor window open next to my browser, so I can comment while I read, and if a later post addresses the same issue, I can alter my comment so as not to double post too much. Although most of the time I scan ahead as well to see if the issue hasn't already been addressed, before starting to write. When I have caught up with all the posts, I copy everything into the browser and post it.


@267, Sergio Almeida: "1 - Jack can't die, remember his experience with Richard and the dynamite that won't explode."

Meh... perhaps the Island is done with him. That seems to go around a bit nowadays. ;)

"2 - I think Desmond was killed, Flocke turned into his form, tricked and defeated Whitmore and left the island with the crew."

Uhm... when did that happen?


Thanks robinpiney @ 269!

@270, spoilerquest: GRAA means Great Review As Always. At least, I hope it means that. For all I know I've been insulting Mac on a weekly basis for the past two years. ;)

#271. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 24, 2010 1:16 AM

Mac is Fearless Leader and Blog Master. GRAA means Great review as always

#272. Posted by: undauntid at April 24, 2010 9:37 AM

#272. Posted by: undauntid
>Mac is Fearless Leader and Blog Master. GRAA means Great review as always

Really? I thought we were all just growling at Mac, like, "GRAAAAA I'm really gonna sink my teeth into this post"

#273. Posted by: Skipper at April 24, 2010 9:49 AM

@Skipper / #273: That's awesome. Totally made my day!

#274. Posted by: mac at April 24, 2010 9:56 AM

@257/undauntid: on mechanical skipping projection of Horace to Locke.
@261/srharmon: Horace appearance was a dream

Well, there is a third possible explanation: Horace was time skipping. He did have a nose bleed.


#275. Posted by: welh at April 24, 2010 10:03 AM

@271 Yes, the Christian to Vincent is from one of the webisodes. I had stated that MIB can't leave the island -- he is trapped. That is why I think the Christian appearance to Jack was Jacob (or his agent/ally). None of the off island appearances are MIB. I forgot about Claire appearing to Kate telling her not to bring Aaron back to the island. Again, Jacob.

However, I just had a thought. Could MIB also have an agent/ally to do his bidding off island? Both Jacob and MIB need the Candidates back on the island, but for different reasons. Jacob needs to find a replacement and MIB wants to get rid of all the candidates so he can leave the island.

Hmm.....

#276. Posted by: srharmon at April 24, 2010 12:17 PM

Just a couple of random thoughts:

Watched the episode where Sayid shot Ben as a kid. In that episode, after that weird guy administered truth serum to Sayid, he went back to jail but had changed. He was at peace with the world. Sawyer wanted him to sock him in the face and steal his keys to escape, but Sayid refused saying that he "now knows why he is here." Next scene of Sayid shows him waiting patiently for young Ben to rescue him and after they escape he shoots Ben - this being the reason he was there.

Now, either he thought he was preventing a lot of problems by killing Ben before he grew up or he knew that Ben had to be baptized in the temple pool in order to keep things rolling as they should.

This seems to create an infinite loop - earlier episodes, Ben is who he is because Sayid shot him. Sayid shot him because he (Sayid) came to the island, left the island, and came back on Ajira. All this would result in Ben being the older Ben we saw in earlier episodes, which would loop again back to Sayid getting to the place where he shot Ben.

There are probably lots of other loops like this one. But, the recent episodes are giving me the impression that "whatever happens happens." The happenings are not necessarily happening to the same characters, but it all ends the same.
They can never escape the loop because whatever happens happens. They can change actions along the way but it all leads back to the same outcome.


A

#277. Posted by: tesla at April 24, 2010 3:24 PM

Now I lay me down to sleep,
six seasons of LOST that make me weep.
If I should die before I wake,
will I go with Smokey, or Jacob, for heavens sake?

#278. Posted by: JaniceBoree at April 24, 2010 3:24 PM

How did Kate learn to sail?

@28/colin
@205/ransomjackson
@210/shikotee

In Season 1 Episode 22 "Born to Run" Kate is trying to bump Sawyer from the raft that Michael and Jin are building. As she explains her reasons for being a better choice (I was going to say candidate...) than Sawyer she says "I spent 2 summers crewing J-Boats, I know my way around a sailboat".

#279. Posted by: rainlover57 at April 24, 2010 5:23 PM

#279. Posted by: rainlover5: "In Season 1 Episode 22 "Born to Run" Kate is trying to bump Sawyer from the raft that Michael and Jin are building. As she explains her reasons for being a better choice (I was going to say candidate...) than Sawyer she says "I spent 2 summers crewing J-Boats, I know my way around a sailboat".

That is why I love this site...Thank you rainlover5 for settling that point of skepticism for us!

#280. Posted by: undauntid at April 24, 2010 5:49 PM

#280. Posted by: undauntid:

Happy to contribute, usually I just read all the posts.

I spent the last week or so re-watching season 1 and the comment Kate made about learning to sail was fresh in my mind. I went back to the episode to get the exact quote.

I too love this blog. Great and interesting minds are lurking and posting here.

#281. Posted by: rainlover57 at April 24, 2010 8:10 PM

@247/gris
@259/undaunted
@263/glostover

all commenting on Richard's remark that the Jack/Kate/Hurley group from the 77 class photo were dead.

When Richard made that comment, the Jack group had not yet foomed from 1977. Assuming Richard was watching from a safe distance at the "Incident", he probably did believe they had all died in that accident, especially as their bodies were never recovered.

@254/srharmon on Jacob as the off-island "ghosts":

We have never seen Jacob take alternate form, although we have seen him as himself multiple times off-island. Wouldn't the simplest answer to the Charley, Ana Lucia and Christian off-island sightings be that they were the actual spirits of the deceased?

Why would Jacob as Charley go talk to Hurley at the asylum, or appear as Eko to engage him in a game of checkers? We've already seen that Jacob had no problem approaching Hurley directly in the taxi.

@226 sweetpea
@246 vintage

As plain simple mentioned, you can sail away from the island, but only if you know the exact heading to escape the "snowglobe"- which is why the Dharma/Others sub was able to travel back and forth, and how Michael and Walt sailed safely home.

Even the slightest variation causes effects ranging from time shifts to insanity and death.

On a larger point, I don't believe there is any evidence that the Jughead explosion created the alt timeline- in fact, I'd say it's just the opposite- the Losties zoomed forward to c. 2007 and resumed their lives in the original timeline.

The only evidence to the contrary has been Juliet's comment "it worked", but she was dying, and we've already seen that the characters island and alt consciousnesses merge when near death.

I'm still going with the simplest, most straight-forward answer- the Losties will eventually defeat/contain MIB, probably sacrificing themselves in the process and submerging the island.

That new "incident" will create a rebooted time line where Jacob never calls the oceanic group to the island. While the main characters will live superficially better lives, they still lack the awareness of their past, a situation which is rapidly being remedied one character at a time by either near death experiences or Mr. Hume.

Better lives + awakened consciousness + reconnecting with forgotten loves= happy happy. Fade to black...(no "Don't Stop Believing" on the jukebox, please).

#282. Posted by: Mizzed at April 25, 2010 1:49 AM

Hey gang, interesting tour today. Unfortunately they had already dismantled the beach camp in advance of the upcoming auction, but still got to see lots of neat lost related sites. I'll post pics when I get home.

Also unfortunate: I couldn't swing a ticket to the cast wrap party at the Kahala Mandarin tonight...

#283. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 25, 2010 2:03 AM

To all those who were expecting a Sun/Jin head explosion by the sonic fence - I had exactly the same thought but just re-watched the episode and Zoe says "Turn the fences off. Ford just showed up on a boat with five of his friends" into her walkie-talkie just before the reunion. It happens off camera.

#284. Posted by: flambe moi at April 25, 2010 11:03 AM

@ FenwayBen #283 Enjoyable or bittersweet experience?

#285. Posted by: August Paul at April 25, 2010 4:38 PM

@28, Colin: "Locke tells Sawyer to go get the sail boat. Sawyer asks why they aren't all going together. Locke says, "The bigger the group, the slower it moves." I guess gravity has a greater effect on a large object thus slowing down the time that it takes it to move from point A to point B." As I understood it, the more people in the boat, the lower the boat rides in the water giving a larger surface area exposed to the water giving a larger drag on the boat. Or something...

#286. Posted by: August Paul at April 25, 2010 4:50 PM

284 - flambe
You're right. I do remember hearing that, but as Sun and Jin ran toward each other i turned to my wife and said "I hope they turned the fence off in time...". I expected a lostie flambe...

#287. Posted by: paul_c at April 25, 2010 5:07 PM

at #263 Glosover

I remember reading somewhere that the original ending scene choosen for season 5 was not the Juliet smashing the rock on jughead scene but a scene of Richard watching from a safe distance away as the events transpired. He was suposed to witness them foom away and therefore assume that they had died.

Producers decided to not proceed with the scene and instead choose the juliet scene.

#288. Posted by: michael at April 26, 2010 10:50 AM

Realizing that tomorrow's episode (if not the entire cycle of Island events) is a repeat, will there be a new discussion topic? Anyone know if it's an enhanced episode? 'Cuz I could imagine some interesting discussions if the pop-up bubbles say,

"This is Smokey reading Richard's mind."

"Isabella is a manifestation of the smoke monster."

"This is really the ghosts of Isabella, even though she died on the Canaries."

"This conversation with Isabella, as well as the entire series, transpires only in Hurley's head."

#289. Posted by: LockeBox at April 26, 2010 1:17 PM

I'm fed up with the ALT. Some of the events that reference earlier seasons are cool, but there are too many of them, it's become gimmicky. It was great to see the real Locke again, to see familiar and beloved characters in different roles, but that's also kind of gimmicky, like something a sitcom does after a few seasons, to renew the formula.

Also, because they didn't reveal what the ALT is, it's hard to really care about anything that happens to the people in it. We are now beginning to find out about it with help from Desmond, but I still don't really care that much. Please, will you just tell me, what is the Island? How old is it? What happened on it? Jacob, MIB, etc. At least 50% of screen time this season should be dedicated to those past events.

Instead, the ALT takes up 50% of the season so far. Why all the intricate little stories? If this was season 5, I'd be fine with it. But comeon, we're almost at the end here and only one measly episode (Ab Aeterno) about stuff we REALLY want to know about. Oh, plus a few lame answers to huge questions (whispers, Christian) here and there. They will probably cram all the remaining Island/Jacob/MIB backstory in one episode.

I would have gladly given up half of the ALT scenes, in favor of a more extensive Richard/Others/Jacob/MIB/Island backstory, smeared out over the entire season. I know the show is supposed to be more about the characters than about the mythology, but... it's not. Not for me, anyway. I love most of the characters on this show and the great jobs that the actors do, portraying their development. I loved to be teased, puzzled, confused by all those hints, contradictions, wtf-moments, etc.

I never complained about TPTB refusing to give clear answers to big questions in previous seasons, instead adding ever more questions and contradictions to the list. But I feel like they're messing up their own legacy this season. So frustrating :(

#290. Posted by: Visitor L at April 26, 2010 2:32 PM

The clue is in the lyrics.....

Desmond has a barrow in the marketplace
Molly is the singer in a band
Desmond say to Molly, girl I like you face
And Molly says this as she takes him by the hand

Ob-la-di, ob-la-da,
Life goes on, bra
La la how the life goes on
Ob-la-di, ob-la-da
Life goes on, bra
La la how the life goes on

#291. Posted by: dk at April 26, 2010 2:36 PM

Hurley is the walrus!

Coo coo ca joob...

Ooooohhh...I'm going to Hell for that one.

Gonna be a long week.

#292. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 26, 2010 2:55 PM

When Jack asked Locke if he had appeared as Christian, I wish he also would have asked: "So where is my father's body??" One of many un-asked and un-answered questions. Christian's body is missing in the alt world, too. hmmmm

I wonder if Desmond's real (or dual) purpose in steering Claire to the attorney's office was actually to abort (yes, abort) her attempt to give the baby up for adoption and thus raise Aaron herself.

It has taken me almost a week to read all these posts. If I've repeated something, it's because my memory is short. I really do appreciate David's scream, but I do not wish to incur his wrath ;O)

#293. Posted by: lovelost at April 26, 2010 5:54 PM

@237, robinpiney: a Faraday Mesh
Every week when I watch Fringe I hope they will put some kind of clue about Lost. Probably so tiny I would never see it. But I hope. That would be very cool. The first night that V was on Scott Peters put the address of the builiding 4400. So assume(d) JJ would do some thing like this. I would love to have cross hints (fringe/lost).

#294. Posted by: Christina at April 26, 2010 7:12 PM

#294. Posted by: Christina

Abrams hasn't had a thing to do with Lost since season 1. With Fringe he just 'helps' write the season finales & premieres now.

#295. Posted by: DocH at April 26, 2010 8:58 PM

@ 285/ August Paul:
a bit bittersweet, especially when we arrived at the beach camp and saw it mostly dismantled. But overall enjoyable.

#296. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 27, 2010 2:44 AM

#288. Michael said:

"I remember reading somewhere that the original ending scene chosen for season 5 was not the Juliet smashing the rock on jughead scene but a scene of Richard watching from a safe distance away as the events transpired. He was supposed to witness them foom away and therefore assume that they had died."

Thanks, Michael, that makes sense and also allows the series to dispense with the Juliet character so Elizabeth Mitchell could go on to another gig.

#297. Posted by: glostover at April 27, 2010 9:25 AM

My digitial cable guide says nothing about "enhanced" on tonight's repeat of Ab Aeterno, alas. If also says the time is 9:00-10:02. As I recall the original ran six minutes over the hour. Trimming, one wonders, or fewer/shorter commercials?

#298. Posted by: Cecil at April 27, 2010 9:27 AM

@288, michael: "I remember reading somewhere that the original ending scene choosen for season 5 was not the Juliet smashing the rock on jughead scene but a scene of Richard watching from a safe distance away as the events transpired"

Do you remember where you read that?


@298, Cecil: "My digitial cable guide says nothing about "enhanced" on tonight's repeat of Ab Aeterno, alas."

I think if you're in the US you can watch the enhanced episode on the ABC website, right? Not being in the US I can't test it, but I seem to remember that being mentioned on this blog.

#299. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 27, 2010 11:10 AM

@Cecil: thanks

@Michael: interesting, any indications what Richard saw when the Incident transpired?

#300. Posted by: LockeBox at April 27, 2010 11:11 AM

I’m a little corn-fused and more than a little concerned…

Jacob said “It only ends once…the rest is just progress…” or something like that.

What only ends once? This “human experiment”? Okay, I know that’s the big question, but it leads me to my next questions.

If some mystical s**t happens and “it” ends, what then? The island never happened? One of the timelines never happened? They both continue to happen simultaneously? The timelines merge and all the Losties – the ones who haven’t been Flocked – continue on their merry way with new insights into their island-enhanced yet flawed personalities? The last six years (Ab Aeterno notwithstanding) didn’t happen?

If “it” doesn’t happen and what we’ve witnessed is just progress, does the whole thing happen all over again with Jack and Locke sitting on the beach clinking mai tais? Do they go back in time a hundred or a thousand years and start manipulating their own new set of human pawns and backgammon stones?

Either way, my limited imagination fails to find a satisfactory resolution. Unless…

Is this whole bloody thing a Trading Places-type $1 wager?

That I could live with.

“Looking good, John.”
“Feeling good, Jack.”

#301. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 27, 2010 11:30 AM

@299 Plain Simple asked:

>I think if you're in the US you can watch the enhanced episode on the ABC website, right? Not being in the US I can't test it, but I seem to remember that being mentioned on this blog.

Equally alas, they've never posted and enhanced online for Ab Aeterno or anything since. I guess if they're not going to broadcast it, they don't make it.

#302. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 27, 2010 11:34 AM

Do we know how the sonic fence keeps Smokey out? I remember seeing Smokey rear up and stop short at the fence but I have no idea how it prevented Smokey from passing through. It appears Smokey needs to be (to some degree) in close proximity to land in order to function. It appears as though water prevents it's function. Does the sound frequency disrupt Smokey's function in the same way water does?

I wonder if Desmond's exposure to the electromagnetism prevents Smokey from approaching him, making him impervious to Smokey. Is that why he is so important in this war? Because the island's #1 super weapon cannot touch him?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>SPOILER ALERT<<<<<<<<<<<<

Why isn't Desmond in the last supper portrait? Ilana is, but no Desmond. Odd.

#303. Posted by: undauntid at April 27, 2010 11:41 AM

From Facebook: Lost will air an enhanced version of "Ab Aeterno" tonight at 9|8c on ABC giving you an inside look into the Richard centric episode. After tonight, there are 3 new episodes before the Series Finale on Sunday, May 23.

#304. Posted by: srharmon at April 27, 2010 1:44 PM

Can not wait to see what comes next. Lost is the greatest show ever!
Check out my blog and please leave a comment.
http://the-dharma-initiative-lost.blogspot.com/

#305. Posted by: Michal at April 27, 2010 2:24 PM

A lot of people seem to be questioning good and bad...is the MIB the good guy or the bad guy? Is Jacob good or evil? Does Widmore have good intentions or bad intentions?

Personally, I don't think there is any such thing such as good or evil. That would be way too black and white for a story like this. I think that none of these characters are inherently good or evil, but simply want what is best for themselves...which is human nature.

#306. Posted by: Sally at April 27, 2010 2:57 PM

@306. Posted by: Sally

I can respect your position here, but I do not agree. This is a story about, among other things, "Black and White", Science and Faith, Destiney and Fate, Damnation and Salvation, Doubt and Belief... Many of the characters do things that have nothing to do with what is right for themselves. (Charley, Hurley, Jack, Eko, Desmond, Daniel, Boone, Juliet...)

I may be proven wrong yet, so I will stop here.

#307. Posted by: Revelation at April 27, 2010 3:11 PM

#302. Posted by: Cecil Rose
the enhanced episode on the ABC website
They have NOT put the last three on the website. Many other episodes have their enhanced ep just NOT the last three! What is up with that????

#308. Posted by: Christina at April 27, 2010 4:16 PM

#309

"Personally, I don't think there is any such thing such as good or evil."

So it would be cool if I were to crack open your skull and take your wallet? (Or, say, fly a plane into a building to kill thousands of people?)

You may say your don't believe in good or evil, but it most certainly exists, despite all of the relativists out there clammering to deny it, in order to put their own fears at ease.

#309. Posted by: NotLost at April 27, 2010 4:34 PM

@309
I think he was just talking about the show, not life in general.

#310. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 27, 2010 4:42 PM

she, not he. i think.

#311. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 27, 2010 4:43 PM

@310, myself:
she, not he. i think.

#312. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 27, 2010 4:44 PM

@308 Christina bemoaned:

>They have NOT put the last three on the website. Many other episodes have their enhanced ep just NOT the last three! What is up with that????

My working theory is they only make an enhanced episode if they intend to broadcast one. We'll just have to see about tonights.

#313. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 27, 2010 4:58 PM

Preview of tonight's enhanced episode:

"This is Richard."

"He wanted the best for his wife, Isabella."

"He invested all their money in Egyptian eyeliner. He wanted to corner the market."

"Richard is poor. Very poor."

#314. Posted by: welh at April 27, 2010 5:27 PM

Need a LOST fix to hold you over till next week? DarkUFO has posted chapter 2 of Vozzek69's book (29 pages).

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/

#315. Posted by: mtncbn at April 27, 2010 5:39 PM

*SIGH* Tuesday and no LOST. My only consolation is that I'm a Cavs fan and they play tonight. Go Cavs!

#316. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 27, 2010 6:33 PM

Question for the east-coasters from a west-coaster, was Ab Aeterno enhanced? My online TV listings show 2 hours for LOST(9-11)??

#317. Posted by: mtncbn at April 27, 2010 9:08 PM

#317

Sorry. No.

#318. Posted by: davidrh at April 27, 2010 9:14 PM

I'm in Oklahoma and watching right now. It is enhanced with the captions, "...and Richard has been entrapped for 5 horrifying days." etc.

#319. Posted by: undauntid at April 27, 2010 9:30 PM

oh my. howsaboutthat.

#320. Posted by: undauntid at April 27, 2010 9:33 PM

#317 mtncbn asked:

>Question for the east-coasters from a west-coaster, was Ab Aeterno enhanced? My online TV listings show 2 hours for LOST(9-11)??

We only got one hour here, but it WAS enhanced. Dunno what DavidRH was watchin' over in Tennessee.

The Enhanced version specifically stated that the "Isabella" in the hold of the Black Rock was NOT Isabella, but did not comment on the reality or not of the Isabella that Hurley was translating to Richard.

#321. Posted by: Cecil at April 27, 2010 11:54 PM

* * * * Spoiler Caution * * * *

No spoilers herein. However there are links available to a Wired interview with D&C in several places frequented by folks on this blog, and the initials of those places are are AckAttack and DocJensen.

BE WARNED that, although the article is not spoilery and is quite interesting along with several clever sidebars, such as a list of all the materials salvaged from Flight 815, that

at the

VERY TOP OF THE ARTICLE

there is a

HUGE, SPOILER-RICH PHOTOGRAPH

of Damon and Carleton with a whiteboard behind them in

LARGE HIGH DEFINTION FORMAT

That is the most spoiler-intensive thing I've seen in years, so if you must follow those links to the article,

TURN, TURN your EYES from the TOP PHOTO

lest ye be majorly spoiled.

THAT IS ALL.

#322. Posted by: Cecil at April 28, 2010 12:05 AM

#321. Cecil: "The Enhanced version specifically stated that the "Isabella" in the hold of the Black Rock was NOT Isabella, but did not comment on the reality or not of the Isabella that Hurley was translating to Richard."

That tidbit was what moved me to post #320!

#323. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 1:14 AM

And, I should mention, specifically SAID that the Isabella in the hold WAs the smoke monster.

#324. Posted by: Cecil at April 28, 2010 1:24 AM

Well, should we go back to the blogs for the Richard epi so we can talk about it?

#325. Posted by: Christina at April 28, 2010 3:14 AM

I've read a lot of LOST blogs and this is one of the best - glad I found you guys.
Glad someone cleared up the Kate the Sailor issue...and the Flocke is trapped in Locke's body AFTER Jacob is killed issue, too...things are so much easier when the facts are laid out.

Wish I had more to contribute here as far as theories or witty one-liners. Just wanted to say that I'm a Lostie 'til the end, but many of you pointed out some things that made me think (or admit to thinking), for the first time, "...yeah, they're right": our Losties are, in fact, acting like morons. Which feeds the fear that Darlton are missing opportunities in the storytelling. Jack's full of faith, so he's like, "whatever. I'll do what feels right, and I won't know until it's right in front of me.." and that is okay; That, I can buy. It's his arc. But what's up with so many following Flocke? The guy who looks like your dead friend but admits to being a smoke monster that you've personally seen kill people? What would you be thinking? Either "I've got to play my cards right or I'll get killed, so I'll just pretend to go along with this until I find a means to escape (sure,I guess that is plausible)";
I'm going insane! I want to get the hell out of here!!!" (Knee-jerk and totally understandable); "I have a big role to play and I don't know what it is, but I'm here until I find it (again, with our Losties, plausible)." I guess the core group realizes, on different levels, that they came back for a reason, at least individual reasons, that are now merging. Jack, to find his destiny; Hurley, because "they needed him"; Kate, to reunite Aaron with Claire; Ben, to regain power(?); and Sun, to find Jin. For those who never left the island, they're just along for the endgame, I guess.

The comment that one person made about "reshuffling the deck to stall the plot" felt real, and I shirked a little in my chair for being such a gullible Lost fan...it's just, I don't want to be disappointed. None of us do, we love this show. But behavior and "answers" of late leave a little to be desired, I think...and does anyone else feel that the show itself, the scenes themselves, feel a little rushed? This could be intentional, and again, it could just be my looming Lost separation anxiety speaking, but it feels like the quality of the show has changed. I hope I am totally wrong about this. Maybe it's just because it's on network TV and I don't Tivo it as opposed to watching multiple episodes back to back on DVD, but it just feels...less involved.

But, yeah - giving away answers (Flocke's yes-I-was-your-Dad and Michael's we-are-the-stuck-ghosts) seemed, well, too easy and unnecessary; I would've preferred they remain mysteries forever, or had been answered in more "show" rather than "tell" styles. And now our Losties' motivations are all over the place, and unless nearly every single one of 'em has a perfect plan-secret agenda that will be revealed at the perfect moment, they mostly just seem like puppets being paraded around by Flocke and Widmore and Eloise and Darlton...but I still have faith. And, I just remembered reading somewhere that what we've seen so far in Season Six is taking place in just a few days or a week's worth of the losties' time, so that might explain their confusion and aimlessness.
And all of this is just my way of saying, PLEASE DON'T SUCK IN THE END LIKE GALACTICA DID!

[Edited for language]

#326. Posted by: helas at April 28, 2010 5:18 AM

It's just, well, THIS:
Lost is an amazing and complex show, and the creators respected our intelligence enough to ask us to pay attention, closely. And, we are - so I hope they repay that by making things connect, make "sense", and not contradict or fumble or ignore the details. And when I say make sense, I don't mean that every mystery should be neatly explained, just that they play by the rules they've set up and honor the close attention we've paid them, that's all. Phew.

#327. Posted by: helas at April 28, 2010 5:30 AM

@326 Please clean it up a little. One of the reasons this blog is so popular is the absence of a lot of profanity. It's Not needed and is offensive. Thanks.

#328. Posted by: not zero at April 28, 2010 8:56 AM

So, last night's epi was four minutes shorter than the original broadcast. I couldn't point to anything missing. Anybody else notice any?

Anybody else see our favorite Hobbit on Jimmy Kimmel Live last night, showing off his broken (surfing) foot?

#329. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2010 9:28 AM

Am I the only one who has observed that Kate is the distraction in action?

Strange as it sounds; Kate is the embodiment of everything MIB says that man is and does. She comes, conquers, corrupts and destroys. Kate leaves a wake of sadness, pain, and death behind her.

#330. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 9:48 AM

My version was enhanced last night (with a local TV station logo covering the right bottom quarter most of the time.)

Cecil, I did not notice any difference from original airing; but I must say that I viewed it differently this time. The first time, I was focused on the Richard and his back story. This time, I focused in on Jacob and MIB.

#331. Posted by: welh at April 28, 2010 9:55 AM

Much as I want to accept the enhanced revelation that Isabella on board The Black Rock was actually Smokey, I am remembering that the enhanced comments a few weeks back also told us that the Alt timeline was a result of 815 not crashing.

We had trouble with the idea that the the alt timeline is a result of 815 not crashing because we noted substantial differences in the lives of the alt timeline Lostees which pre-date the flight of 815.

Now we have Smokey was BR Isabella. Really? But there are differences between this enhanced statement and the other.

Isabella appears and tells Ricardo he must kill the Devil. Then MIB arrives and tells Ricardo that Jacob is the devil. It is also interesting that they made a point of showing us MIB handing Ricardo Isabella's cross; I take that as an indication that MIB does not need a person's dead body on island in order to manifest as that person. All he needs is something that belonged to the dead person.

Also, TPTB showed us Ricardo seeing Isabella on The Black Rock, but not seeing her when Hurley accompanied her. And her words to Ricardo through Hurley were loving and meant to soothe Ricardo. Whereas BR Isabella's words were intended to move him to murder.

All things considered, I buy that Smokey was the BR Isabella.

So...if all MIB needs is something that belongs to a dead person, do Christian's shoes take on greater significance? I know MIB appeared as Christian prior to the arrival of Christian's shoes, but he didn't appear as Locke prior to the arrival of Locke's body/Christian's shoes.

#332. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 10:59 AM

@ Cecil Rose, #329 I thought I missed the conversation between Hugo & Isabella on the beach when Jack came up to him and asked him who he was talking to. Was this cut or was I out of the room getting ice cream?

#333. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 11:02 AM

#317. Posted by: mtncbn
Question for the east-coasters from a west-coaster, was Ab Aeterno enhanced?
#318. Posted by: davidrh
Sorry. No.

This east coaster did have the advanced version. Watched it on HDTV. Could this have made a difference.

So according to the enhanced version, Isabella, when she appeared on the Black Rock, was indeed an MIB manifestation, contrary to my doubt expressed earlier. I suppose it makes some sense that when MIB is doing one of his impersonations, Isabella appears as flesh and blood, but when the real Isabella wants to give Richard some comfort and some advice, she is only a ghost whom only Hurley can see but Richard can only dimly perceive. I was confused mostly because when Isabella tried to run away from the smoke monster, we heard all that screaming and what seemed like shadows of the smoke monster. So MIB put on quite a multimedia show for poor Richard (something for his almanac?)

Finally, did MIB watching Hurley and Richard at the end also see ghost Isabella?

#334. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 11:04 AM

@330.

Good point, but the same could be applied to Sayid. Or even Sawyer.

#335. Posted by: glostover at April 28, 2010 11:08 AM

I am sure someone must have mentioned this, but in the many posts I don't recall seeing (forgive me Davidrh) the comparison between Alt Roger Linus, aged and gasping for oxygen and the Alt Pierre Chang, who looked just as young and spry and ambidextrous as he back did in 1977. Was this a continuity problem or did the good Dr. Chang receive one of Jacob's blessings?

#336. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 11:10 AM

#327. Posted by: helas: "Jack's full of faith, so he's like, "whatever. I'll do what feels right, and I won't know until it's right in front of me."

I see him differently, not that Jack is a man of faith now. All his life Jack has been driven to "fix things" in an attempt to prove to his father that he does indeed have the right stuff.

I think the change in Jack has come about because he realized he made some bad decisions in his habitual rush to fix something in order to prove to himself that he has the right stuff. He's come to the point (and he even said so) that his decisions are not always sound.

Over these remaining episodes I think we will see Jack shift his thinking so he can make decisions free of the compulsion to prove himself.

#337. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 11:14 AM

#333. Posted by: August Paul "I thought I missed the conversation between Hugo & Isabella on the beach when Jack came up to him and asked him who he was talking to. Was this cut or was I out of the room getting ice cream?"

You're right; that was missing!

#338. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 11:17 AM

@330 Glostover

That is true, but both Sayid and Sawyer are candidates. Why is Kate still around? She may be there to be the fly in the ointment that keeps the candidates distracted. Just a thought.

Also if Ilana is no longer needed, has the replacement been found?
I did find it significant that her death followed Desmonds arrival on the main island.

#339. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 11:18 AM

It's funny how someone else'

s innocuous, obvious comment can stir sudden understanding.

So, if the Losties (minus Hurley and Des) can see the dead person - it's MIB. BR Isabella, Christian, Yemi, etc. He manifests by having something of the persons'.

If they can't, then it's the ghost of the person. Okay, got it.

So why did Eloise insist on Jack putting Christian's shoes on dead Locke? I don't buy that she works for MIB, so is she just making sure things happen a certain way so that the Candidates have to make a choice? Did Smokie need the shoes to go from Christian to Locke? That seems unlikely so I'm not clear on this.

Was Jacob limited to 360 candidates for a reason? (I'm assuming that number since it's how many degrees are in a circle per the Lighthouse.)

I wonder if they will explain why some Losties stopped being candidates while they were still alive - Kate, maybe Claire (maybe it was the squirrel hair), Miles. Why get crossed off when you're still alive?

#340. Posted by: Other Kate at April 28, 2010 11:41 AM

#330. Posted by: Revelation "Strange as it sounds; Kate is the embodiment of everything MIB says that man is and does. She comes, conquers, corrupts and destroys. Kate leaves a wake of sadness, pain, and death behind her."

I don't see it. In her life pre-island, she did bad things. But since coming to the island she has been a standup friend. Two men on island have fallen in love with her. Of couse they did...she's a man in a beautiful female form. She's smart, hard working, she has the backs of her friends, she volunteers for dangerous missions, she can track, she can shoot, she can sail, she sewed up Jack's wound, she nursed Sawyer back to health, she delivered Aaron, she took on the responsibility of another woman's child when that woman disappeared, and then she gave the child up to go back and find his mother for him. In the alt world she jeopardized her own getaway to go back to help Claire and she stayed with her until Claire was calm and out of danger.

I just don't see "conquers, corrupts and destroys".

#341. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 11:48 AM

@332 undauntid worried with:

>We had trouble with the idea that the the alt timeline is a result of 815 not crashing because we noted substantial differences in the lives of the alt timeline Lostees which pre-date the flight of 815.

So maybe the effects of 815 not crashing propagate backwards in time? Or maybe the time had to change further back in other to bring about 815 not crashing. (if the quantum event is in 1977 then anything post that if fair gamee.)


>Isabella appears and tells Ricardo he must kill the Devil. Then MIB arrives and tells Ricardo that Jacob is the devil. It is also interesting that they made a point of showing us MIB handing Ricardo Isabella's cross; I take that as an indication that MIB does not need a person's dead body on island in order to manifest as that person. All he needs is something that belonged to the dead person.

Good point. Also note the amount of touching between Ricardo and not-Isabella. Apparently Smokey apparitions are completely tactile as well as auditory and visual.

#342. Posted by: Cecil at April 28, 2010 11:52 AM

@ #340. Other Kate:

Eloise said Christian's shoes were needed on the flight because the returning flight had to be as close to the original flight as possible, and Christian's body was on the original flight, so his shoes were his "stand-in". And it may be as simple as that. But when I saw Isabella's cross in MIB's hand, it made me wonder about Christian's shoes.

Did I miss something? Did Ilana indicate that Kate (or others) were no longer candidates? I'm not so sure that some people have been eliminated as candidates. What evidence do we have of that? No names have been crossed off the lighthouse compass.

MIB is the one who wrote the names on the cave wall and he is the one who crossed names off. It might be that MIB has his own criteria for crossing those names off. Maybe he has determined that he cannot use them, or maybe he is crossing off names from his "To Do" list... "Sayid: Corrupted...check."

#343. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 12:20 PM

OOPS: Sorry...Yes, names have been crossed off the lighthouse compass!

With regard to the 6 remaining candidates: How do we know there are 6 remaining candidates?

Per Ilana, Kwon represents only one of the two Kwons? Ilana says she doesn't know which Kwon is the candidate so she will protect them both.

So if, according to Ilana, we have one Kwon, Shepard, Reyes, Ford, and Jarrah. That's 5 candidates... unless Ilana misunderstood and both Jin and Sun are candidates.

So if Ilana misunderstood and both Kwons are candidates, that's 6 candidates, no prblem. But if Ilana did not misunderstand, who is the 6th candidate?

#344. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 1:23 PM

#341. Posted by: undauntid

"In her life pre-island, she did bad things. But since coming to the island she has been a standup friend."

LONG POST ALERT - Sorry just got going and ...

I will conceed that Kate has done quite a few things on island that could be seen as friendly. Yes two men fell for her. But she invited bnoth men to fall for her pretty much at the same time. this pitted one against the other. She puts herself in the middle intentionally, and then appears to be put out or left out when crutial decisions are made, especially when Jack makes the decisions. Some friend she is Jack. Of course if Jack is always wrong, she may be just the friend he is in need of here. Examples

Jack decides that the Caves are a good place to relocate - Kate remains on the beach. This betrayal was especially odd because of all all the losties, she would be the one that would not want to be found).
Jack tells Kate to stay behind, but Kate betrays him yet again, and is captured by Tom and the Others and used against Jack.
Kate sleeps with Sawyer in the bear cage and betrays Jack again.
Jack tells Kate not to come back after securing her release from the others. She betrays him again and comes back for him.
Jack refuses to care for a young Ben Linus. Kate betrays him and takes Ben to Richard.
Jack decides to go to the Jughead, and Kate once again betrays him and goes back to Dharmaville only to get caught again and screw up Sawyer and Juliet's plans resulting in Juliet's eventual death.

I may be dwelling on the negative side of Kates character, but it seems she is always in Jacks way.

Oh well we will know if any of this was significant in a few weeks time.

#345. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 1:39 PM

"I don't see it. In her life pre-island, she did bad things. But since coming to the island she has been a standup friend. Two men on island have fallen in love with her. Of couse they did...she's a man in a beautiful female form. She's smart, hard working, she has the backs of her friends, she volunteers for dangerous missions, she can track, she can shoot, she can sail, she sewed up Jack's wound, she nursed Sawyer back to health, she delivered Aaron, she took on the responsibility of another woman's child when that woman disappeared, and then she gave the child up to go back and find his mother for him. In the alt world she jeopardized her own getaway to go back to help Claire and she stayed with her until Claire was calm and out of danger." #341. Posted by: undauntid


WOW. That's the best review Kate's gotten in four seasons! I would think now all the "Kate-Haters" would pause to reflect on that for a moment or two.

Well said, undauntid.

#346. Posted by: davidrh at April 28, 2010 1:43 PM

#344 I believe Jacob told Ilana there were six left. At that point Locke was still alive, so he was the sixth candidate.

I thought about the shoes being a stand-in but it just seemed weird. But then again, sending another man's dead body as a replacement was not exactly normal either.

At one time there was a Straume, Linus and Littleton on the wall that are now crossed out. I could think that Claire and Ben were 'claimed' when they died/almost died, but I don't know why Miles and Kate would be eliminated. Just something that has been bothering me.

#347. Posted by: OtherKate at April 28, 2010 1:49 PM

@344 - Undauntid

"So if, according to Ilana, we have one Kwon, Shepard, Reyes, Ford, and Jarrah. That's 5 candidates... unless Ilana misunderstood and both Jin and Sun are candidates."

#4 was Locke the sixth candidate.

#348. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 1:53 PM

299 Plain Simple


I honestly do not recall where I read it at. It may have been either on this blog or somewhere else online. I do remember that the information came from a solid source so I took it as fact.

#349. Posted by: Michael at April 28, 2010 1:59 PM

@336 "as he back did in 1977" should have read "as he did back in 1977" All this jumping around between universes messes up my typing.

#350. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 2:02 PM

On second viewing, I believe the keys to understanding LOST may be contained in "Ab Aeterno." For an "extremely" long post, click on name below.

#351. Posted by: welh at April 28, 2010 2:26 PM

@351:

If I understand your post correctly, you think that the people on the island aren't actual people? but souls, or ghosts, or something?
but what about when they left the island for 3 years and came back? or the other people that come and go from the island - widmore and his sub, keamy and the tanker, the Dharma Initiative, etc. Also, while they were stranded on the island, people/family members off island did notice that they were gone and missed them.

#352. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 28, 2010 3:27 PM

@welh
I like it because it would mean that the off island stuff when they got "rescued" was illusory as well and would therefore explain why someone seemingly trapped on the island could seemingly appear off island. Maybe Jack will realize he saw his father off island and that may trigger his realization to what's happening.
So what of the Alt-world then tho...?

#353. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 28, 2010 3:35 PM

Has anyone ever brought this up before? Sorry I do not recall....
Maybe Adam and Eve are Jacob and Smokey (their original bodies before they took these bodies we see them in).

#354. Posted by: jack at April 28, 2010 3:38 PM

@351 posted by welh,

I read your extremely long post which I found interesting and well presented, certainly worth the read. I think I disagree with you on some points. I say "I think" not because I am, but because the story confuses me. If we think of the story as being a made for TV myth or as an epic like The Odyssey, then for me this makes sense. When the Odyssey is over, we don't care how sirens turn men into pigs or how one eyed giants can live on an island somewhere in the Mediterranean. The story is not diminished because these questions are not answered. We enjoy the story for the adventure and because it reveals something of the human condition. If this comparison is apt, then the story is not a character study but is a story of how people's various strengths and weaknesses coupled with extraordinary circumstances drive them to behave in one way or another. In the end, it is a good story filled with fantastic ideas about interesting people, some of whom have won our sympathy.

I will be disappointed when this adventure ends. It has been a most interesting experience, not just because of the story itself, but because of all the discussion among strangers that the internet has allowed. The blogs have become little communities brought into existence by a TV show and like all communities has developed something like friendships and hurt feelings. In the end, the show will be no more, the island will very likely be under water, and the characters making up the blogs will vanish. If I may quote the immortal words of Roy Batty, "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

#355. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 3:44 PM

#342. Posted by: Cecil

....all he needs is something that belonged to the dead person....
man C that is such a good thought! He doesn't need the body just something that owned. Interesting.

...the amount of touching...
When Richard was really weak and seemed like he "may" be close to dealth, Smokey comes and TOUCHES him for a LONG time! I thought it was quite interesting. OH and then he was a bit better.


#356. Posted by: Christina at April 28, 2010 3:46 PM

Might it be possible that both Jacob and the Man in Black each are manifestations themselves of the two sides of all the characters who are drawn to the island by its peculiar physical properties. Jacob and MIB individually grow stronger according to the degree of goodness or evil in each of the individuals. Neither one can leave the island because they are the trapped goodness and evil of the people on the island. It is as if goodness and evil were just two other properties, like weight or hair color. And the magnetic properties of the island can accumulate goodness and evil into personifications of each. Evil is a human trait and therefore a human representation of evil is appropriate and makes sense. Similarly for goodness. Perhaps even the evil or goodness remains after their owners are dead. Hence both grow stronger as each reaps more evil or goodness from the island's arriving guests. And hence again, all of that is progress.

A somewhat vaguely related question: Is Widmore just another individual though with more money and therefore more clout and more ability to shift the balance between good and evil on the island, but with no more idea of the effect of the island's special electromagnetic (or weak force, or gravitational or whatever) properties on people who arrive on the island.

If Jacob is like Diogenes, always looking for, in this case, a Good person, and MIB goes around killing people, then who are the "Others?" Why are they allowed to live? What do they perceive to be their purpose?

We have been left with impression that Richard, Ben and the Others, wiped out most of the Dharma people. Did they do this with guns and knives or did Smokey lend a helping hand?

When Horace told Locke in a dream to find the map to Jacob's cabin in his corpse's pocket, that clearly had to be MIB since Dharma folks had absolutely nothing to do with Jacob, maybe didn't even know about him. And the vision appeared to be skipping and looping because Locke was fighting the growing influence of MIB over Locke.

#357. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 4:09 PM

@357 August Paul asked:

>If Jacob is like Diogenes, always looking for, in this case, a Good person, and MIB goes around killing people, then who are the "Others?" Why are they allowed to live? What do they perceive to be their purpose?

What Jacob and MiB said to each other and to Richard in last night's repeat seem to come down to:

o Jacob summonses people to the island in order to prove something (about the nature of humankind?) to MIB.

o MIB sees the same story being worked out each time ("They come, they fight, they die.") I'm not sure he necesarily always kills those who come - maybe they kill themselves.

o Jacob never used to interfere in any way, thinking that sullied the results, and that people had to work out the answers for themselves or it didn't prove anything.

o However, after Richard put the idea into his head, Jacob decided he could bend his principles enough to interact with the summonsees to the extent of communicating with them through Richard. This was the genesis of the Others (or so sayeth the enhanced edition), which we can now date to 1867, not back to Roman/Greek/ or Egyptian times (leaving the source of all these hieroglyphs, tunnels, temples, etc. still a mystery.)

What we still don't know:

) The Nature of Jacob and MIB.

) What, exactly, Jacob's trying to prove.

) Why MIB wants to leave the island and what, exactly, happens if he does.

) Why Jacob wants to prevent that.

Is is just me, or are there a lot of resonances with the story of Job here?

#358. Posted by: Cecil at April 28, 2010 4:35 PM

@358 - Cecil.

Very nice synopsis. I only differ in my opinion of Jacob summoning people to the island. If he does this I don't think the people he summons are aware that he has done so. I would use the words trapped, and manipulated in place of summonses.

Job - yes

to add the following question postulated:
"Why MIB wants to leave the island and what, exactly, happens if he does."

I think this would be answered broadly if we could find out what, where, and when is MIB's Home that he wants to go back to. I don't think he is talking about a little house with a picket fence somewhere in Nebraska...

This really irked me that after MIB said he wanted to go home, he is not asked, and where would home be? another obvious question glossed over!

#359. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 4:48 PM

@ #345 Revelation: with regard to Kate betraying Jack..... It may be a matter of semantics, but what you are calling betrayal I see as Kate refusing to go along with Jack when she thinks he is wrong. Best example of that is when Jack refuses to help the wounded child Ben, so Kate takes steps to help the child.

The closest thing Kate did to "betray" Jack was to have wild bear cage sex with Sawyer...that happened immediately after Kate had beseeched Jack to perform Ben's surgery in order to spare Sawyer's life, but if I remember correctly, Jack did not say he would do it. So when Kate was escorted back to her cage after speaking with Jack, she believed she had failed to convince Jack to perform the surgery consequently, she believed Sawyer would be murdered. Yes, Jack did perform the surgery, but not until after he saw video of the cage sex.

#360. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 5:02 PM

#358. Posted by: Cecil: "Is it just me, or are there a lot of resonances with the story of Job here?"

I'll say!

#361. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 5:42 PM

@352-359
Thanks for the comments. I know that is probably not The Answer, people may not like it, and it does not follow my previous line of thinking, but it could give TPTB enough cover to sweep all the major questions under the rug.

If the ending is not a coherent resolution of the Jacob-MIB story, then there may be No Answers.

#362. Posted by: welh at April 28, 2010 5:46 PM

@360 - Undaundtid

I see your point.
I may be a bit pre-disposed and jaded on Kate from seasons past. I will have to re-evaluate the opinions I have formed and give her character some more in depth thought from a more "untainted" point of view. perhaps walk in her shoes for a while.

I'm actually kind of jazzed about possibly being wrong about Kate and starting to have reason to like Kate's character more.

#363. Posted by: Revelation at April 28, 2010 5:47 PM

@333 August Paul predicted:

>@ Cecil Rose, #329 I thought I missed the conversation between Hugo & Isabella on the beach when Jack came up to him and asked him who he was talking to. Was this cut or was I out of the room getting ice cream?

Got it on the nose. The entire beach scene after Richard's departure to go find MIB was edited out. Almost exactly two minutes. There may be another two minutes missing somewhere, but I haven't the time to find it right now.

#364. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 28, 2010 6:52 PM

@ 364 Cecil

Long time reader, first time poster. The other part that I noticed was missing in this airing was the encounter that Richard had with Smokey in the Black Rock. This is when Smokey approaches Richard after killing all of the officers on the ship and 'scans' Richard.

#365. Posted by: Voices in the Jungle at April 28, 2010 8:34 PM

@ 365 Voices in the Jungle,

Good job! Good Memory!

#366. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 8:59 PM

@358. Posted by: Cecil Yes, Job to a certain extent, to the extent that we have God arguing with his staff (I don't think that Satan is ever actually identified as such in Job) about the nature of man's virtue. But the whole business about free choice and the importance of people discovering their own virtue reminds me more of Jesus' arguments on the importance of being born of the spirit and not just following a set of written rules. It reminds me of something else as well, but I just can't drag it out of the clutter in my badly fragmented brain. I think I'm going to get it defragmented before the next episode.

#367. Posted by: August Paul at April 28, 2010 9:09 PM

@357/August Paul: "We have been left with impression that Richard, Ben and the Others, wiped out most of the Dharma people. Did they do this with guns and knives or did Smokey lend a helping hand?"

They used the Dharma chemical facility (the same one later defused by Faraday and Charlotte) and gassed Dharma with their own poison. Why Dharma was putzing around with toxic chemicals has never been explained...

@332/undauntid: "I take that as an indication that MIB does not need a person's dead body on island in order to manifest as that person. All he needs is something that belonged to the dead person."

Great insight that makes a lot of sense. This goes along with my general theory that we often overcomplicate the mysteries of Lost when the true "answers" are usually far simpler and more straight-forward.

#368. Posted by: Mizzed at April 28, 2010 9:16 PM

Yes, Satan is mentioned in The Book of Job in the King James version of the Bible.

#369. Posted by: undauntid at April 28, 2010 10:41 PM

@365 Voices in the Jungle:

I haven't had te to go back and check the dsik(s) btu I think you've accounted for the other two minites.

Now we can all get paranoid about which is the "official" version, just like we debate whether 'deleted scenes' and other materal count as canon. Remember the little girl looking though the window at Jack in the shark tank? The scene with Vincent sailing away with Michael and Walt in the 'making of' portion of one of the DVD sets? The Comicon version of the time traveling rabbit(s?) video that was somewhat different from what ended up in Season 5?

#370. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 1:54 AM

@369 Undauntid, I stand corrected. After writing that post, I thought it was time to go back and have a look at Job. Satan is indeed identified by name
in my New English Bible version but in the sense, as I understood it, that Satan is not the devil but one of God's heavenly attendants. Satan is evidently the Hebrew word for adversary or accuser. This certainly strengthens Cecil's identification of the similarity between the book of Job and Jacob and MIB's discussions on the nature of humans. But I think the comparison only goes so far in that if Jacob and MIB represent God and Satan, then who is Job? The LOST writers seem to have taken their inspiration from a variety of sources, many of which are unfamiliar to me since my own education was so filled with math, physics and chemistry there was no room left for classics, history, or poetry. Much the poorer I am for that. The use of books as props throughout lost give an indication of the variety of the writers' muses.

I better keep my yap shut before I get into more trouble. Better to use the time defragging my brain.

Are Cecil and Cecil Rose one in the same, like Flocke and Fchristain?

#371. Posted by: August Paul at April 29, 2010 6:13 AM

@370 Cecil Rose: "Remember the little girl looking though the window at Jack in the shark tank?"

No! Egad. Does that suggest that jungle boy may meet the same fate?

#372. Posted by: August Paul at April 29, 2010 6:19 AM

There are two characters we have not seen this year... Walt & Vincent so they are not being discussed. Walt is special - Vincent is MIB? I could see the show ending with Walt being the candidate that stays with Vincent at his side and everyone else leaving the island, realizing Walt has been left behind and everyone screaming the final line of the show.."WAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLTTTT!!!!!"

So what about Walt? What about Vincent? Will we see them again? What will their role be in the ending???

#373. Posted by: Not zero at April 29, 2010 8:42 AM

@371 August Paul asked:

>Are Cecil and Cecil Rose one in the same, like Flocke and Fchristain?

We am indeed. I always sign my name but so many people were addressing me by both names I figured some were viewing it as a moniker, so I started signing just the single name sometimes, to emphasize that it's a real name, and we're all friends here and you can call me by my first name.

I try to remember to use both when I'm including a specific (click my name) type link, just so folks have a larger target.

When thre's no specific invitation to click my name, the links go to one of the three blogs I write here - Survivor, Fringe, or House.

#374. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 9:39 AM

@371 August Paul asked:

>Are Cecil and Cecil Rose one in the same, like Flocke and Fchristain?

We am indeed. I always sign my name but so many people were addressing me by both names I figured some were viewing it as a moniker, so I started signing just the single name sometimes, to emphasize that it's a real name, and we're all friends here and you can call me by my first name.

I try to remember to use both when I'm including a specific (click my name) type link, just so folks have a larger target.

When there's no specific invitation to click my name, the links go to one of the three blogs I write here - Survivor, Fringe, or House.

#375. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 9:41 AM

@372 August Paul asked:

>>@370 Cecil Rose: "Remember the little girl looking though the window at Jack in the shark tank?"

>No! Egad. Does that suggest that jungle boy may meet the same fate?

The little girl appeared in either a publicity still or a "Next week on Lost", I can't remember which at this point, in the Hydra season(3), but never actually showed up in a broadcast, provoking much discussion at the time on canonicity, to coin a word.

I think the jungle boy is a bit more firmly established, although such an unexplained character with only 4 eps to go is - whats the word I want? - aggavating? - nervous-making? You just feel likehe's got to be an important key in some way, but i can't imagine what.

#376. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 9:47 AM

@ Cecil #372

Maybe jungle boy is Charles Widmore who has come to the island to find his inner child.

Maybe the word you're looking for is flocculating (as in the sense of coming out of the colloidal suspension of the smoke monster) ;)

I can't imagine what his role will be either other than a fall back as a Jacob replacement in case the candidates don't pan out.

#377. Posted by: August Paul at April 29, 2010 10:01 AM

@377 - August Paul.

Maybee Jacob re-born from the ashes like a Pheonix.

#378. Posted by: Revelation at April 29, 2010 10:16 AM

********************%%

I've been lurking in the background, but always reading! I have a couple questions maybe someone can shed light on:

Walt - what happened with him? That was a MAJOR plot point that was never revisited.

Alex - remember when Ben was surrounded by smoke and he observed the past memories of Alex floating around him? Not to mention when Ben "released" the smoke monster from the underground in the back room of his house? What and why?!?! If Smokey could do whatever he pleases (obviously) why would Ben have control over it? Any why doesn't Smokey show any of that "Alex inducing power" to anyone else... ?

Hopefully in the next rushed few episodes, we find out... but I doubt it.

**********************&&&

#379. Posted by: Mr. Naysayer at April 29, 2010 10:39 AM

Not exactly on this episode, but since our beloved losties seem to be oblivious to the obvious questions, and followup inquiries. I do not understand why, back in the 1970's, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley... would not have tried to leave themselves a message, say in the caves, that would warned them against some of the misery that thney had met with in the future.

Another thing that really torqued my mind was that Miles went back to 1970's, and met a young charlotte. If Miles is living in his present time, how did he know about Charlotte's quest to return to the island. Charlotte dies before the last foom to the 70's. This could mean that Miles has memories of peices of this "present timeline".

I know this is a blast from the past, but it still lingers in my thoughts.

#380. Posted by: Revelation at April 29, 2010 10:44 AM

@379 Mr. Naysayer asked:

>Walt - what happened with him? That was a MAJOR plot point that was never revisited.

Nice to see you back in print.

I think Walt was just a practical production problem. He quickly outgrew the character. They leapfrogged the problem once by having the three year jump from 2004 to 2007 that paralleled the season 1-3 actual filming time, but unwilling to jump again to 2010 or more the actor's growth just created to many continuity problems.

In the beginning the writer/producers just had no idea exactly how long this thing would keep going, and laid some hints they just couldn't bring to fruition,

#381. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 10:49 AM

@381 - Cecil.

I figured that was why the actor could not come back. He was too big. Then I thought. with all the time travel, why not bring him back from the future. They could always say he was from 6 years in the future, right?

#382. Posted by: Revelation at April 29, 2010 10:55 AM

@379 Mr. Naysayer also asked:

>Not to mention when Ben "released" the smoke monster from the underground in the back room of his house? What and why?!?! If Smokey could do whatever he pleases (obviously) why would Ben have control over it? Any why doesn't Smokey show any of that "Alex inducing power" to anyone else... ?

Remember *how" Ben released the smoke monster? By "pulling the plug" on a pool of water.

We've already established that the smoke monster, at least when in smoke monster form, has some sort of difficulty with water. So maybe the Others had some method of penning him up and blocking the exit with water, then could release him by draining the water.

#383. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 10:56 AM

@380 Revelation asked:

>Another thing that really torqued my mind was that Miles went back to 1970's, and met a young charlotte. If Miles is living in his present time, how did he know about Charlotte's quest to return to the island. Charlotte dies before the last foom to the 70's. This could mean that Miles has memories of pieces of this "present timeline".

Are you confusing Miles with Daniel Faraday, here? Faraday is the one who met the young Charlotte.

Miles did seen to know about Charlotte having been previously been on the island before they began travelling back in time ("What *do* I mean?"), but I think a lot of us attributed that to his seeming to have some gifts for reading the living as well as the dead - remember how he appeared to read Michael's mind when Michael first reported to the freighter as 'Kevin Johnson'?

#384. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 11:03 AM

@ 379 Mr. Naysayer and @380 Revelation

Excellent questions about the nature of the Smoke Monster. Does this imply that as the smoke monster, the MIB does not have a consciousness, that it is just some form of energy fluctuation in which the island manifests itself independently of MIB's control. Is MIB lying as Flocke or Echristian (for Ersatz Christian since Fchristian is too difficult to pronounce?) in claiming to be the smoke monster? Still, many have noted the ability of the smoke monster to scan people and refrain from bashing them into trees or straining them through a grating.

@380 Revelation Not only did they not think of leaving themselves a message I didn't think of it either! Excellent and amusing point. Wonder if the writers thought of it and rejected it. If they had done it, it would have changed the entire plot when they landed on the island and discovered the note. But the nuclear device incident implies that they created the future that they were all experiencing, but they didn't know it. But I agree with you re writing a note. They should have thought of it and given it a try. Ah the paradox of time travel.

I am still waiting for an explanation of the different apparent ages of Roger Linus and Pierre Chang back in Altland.

#385. Posted by: August Paul at April 29, 2010 11:06 AM

@382 Revelation observed:

>I figured that was why the actor could not come back. He was too big. Then I thought. with all the time travel, why not bring him back from the future. They could always say he was from 6 years in the future, right?

It was probably just a complication they didn't want to introduce. All the time travel is in the vicinity fo the island, so they'd have to supply a reason to get him there, then is seems to his everybody (to ar least some classses of people) simultaneously, not single individuals. Plus it doesn't seem to be under anyone's control. Too many loose ends to tie up, I would guess.

#386. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 11:07 AM

@385 August Paul wondered:

>I am still waiting for an explanation of the different apparent ages of Roger Linus and Pierre Chang back in Altland.

Chang took better care of himnself.

While I was mentioning comic-com videos, I forgot there was another one of Chang broadcasting a warning through time because he didn't expect to survive. Which still may be relevant in Original-Flavor-Relaity.

#387. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 11:11 AM

You may a point about miles reading both the living and the dead. I was remembering Miles conversation with charlotte when she told him she wanted leave the island, and he responded that he found it so odd that she wanted to leave so soon becuase she had worked so hard to get back. When she questions what he meant, he turned away and said yes, what do I mean?. it was his tone that cought my attention. alnmost as if he might have given something away, and retracted.

#388. Posted by: Revelation at April 29, 2010 11:15 AM

#378. Posted by: Revelation

On who is Jungle Boy (a/k/a Mowgli):

"Maybee Jacob re-born from the ashes like a Pheonix."

Hmmm, I wonder then if he shouldn't be missing a leg or arm since Ilana took a big handful of his ashes and put them in her little sack....hee hee

#389. Posted by: glostover at April 29, 2010 11:23 AM

@389 - glostover

"Hmmm, I wonder then if he shouldn't be missing a leg or arm "

If lost an arm he would be in good company.

That french guy Montand, Pierre Chang, and Roger Linus(Vincent brings his arm with the Dharma bus keys to Hurley)

#390. Posted by: Revelation at April 29, 2010 11:36 AM

#389. Posted by: glostover
Maybe he's missing some parts we can't see.....like his appendix or a kidney or something.....

And I think with the Walt thing they had Desmond take on some of the role Walt would have played if he hadn't grown four feet in just a couple months (of island time)

#391. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 29, 2010 11:45 AM

@344, undauntid: "Per Ilana, Kwon represents only one of the two Kwons? Ilana says she doesn't know which Kwon is the candidate so she will protect them both."

What if Kwon means both Sun and Jin? But not as separate candidates, but as one. After all, the show is supposed to be all about love, so what better choice for The Candidate(s) than a loving couple who went through space and time to find each other?


@349, Michael: "I honestly do not recall where I read it at. It may have been either on this blog or somewhere else online. I do remember that the information came from a solid source so I took it as fact."

Good thing we have Lostpedia then. :) Follow the link under my name and go to the last bullet point of the production notes. If you follow reference [2] there, you can see the infamous white board with the outline for this scene as well.

@356, Christina: "....all he needs is something that belonged to the dead person....
man C that is such a good thought! He doesn't need the body just something that owned. Interesting."

So, does he need the legal documents that confirm ownership as well? Or just some bits of dna left on the object to grow a new body close to the original one. ;)


@357, August Paul: "Jacob and MIB individually grow stronger according to the degree of goodness or evil in each of the individuals. Neither one can leave the island because they are the trapped goodness and evil of the people on the island. It is as if goodness and evil were just two other properties, like weight or hair color."

So whoever is the personification of weight on the Island must have gotten a huge boost when Hurley arrived? (bad Plain Simple, bad... must...not...make...jokes...)

@358, Cecil: "Is is just me, or are there a lot of resonances with the story of Job here?"

Definitely. Look back at my post #306 at the "Everybody Loves Hugo" blog, specifically the part about Satan. I didn't mention Job explicitly there, but was one of the things in mind when I wrote "Actually, if I remember correctly, in the Hebrew Bible "ha-satan" was the name of one or more angels who were sort of the prosecutors for god, pointing out the flaws in humanity and saying either "go get him/her", or "let me have a go at him/her". This could jibe very well with what MIB seems to be doing."


@370, Cecil Rose: "Now we can all get paranoid about which is the "official" version, just like we debate whether 'deleted scenes' and other materal count as canon. Remember the little girl looking though the window at Jack in the shark tank? The scene with Vincent sailing away with Michael and Walt in the 'making of' portion of one of the DVD sets?"

No, I don't think I do... Care to elaborate a bit?

"The Comicon version of the time traveling rabbit(s?) video that was somewhat different from what ended up in Season 5?"

And don't forget the ALT world clips from last year's comic con, with the Hurley ad's, Kate on Most Wanted and Oceanic's flawless record.

#371, August Paul: "Satan is indeed identified by name
in my New English Bible version but in the sense, as I understood it, that Satan is not the devil but one of God's heavenly attendants."

Same difference. The Satan-accuser character(s) have been amalgamated with different god-characters from other religions at the time (like Beelzebub) and possibly different real-world people who were political enemies of the writers of the particular bible stories. Eventually in christian lore it all ended up as this one character which nowadays is known as the devil. Like I said before, if TPTB go this way I have a feeling that they follow the modern pop culture idea of the devil and don't look too far into the literary history of this character.

"But I think the comparison only goes so far in that if Jacob and MIB represent God and Satan, then who is Job?"

Well, who got f'ed over by the same beings he blindly followed? Locke. Hey, and he even got a new wife in ALT world after Helen died the first time (I know, they weren't married before). And it sure seems Jack is being set up as the new Job. Hey, Jack is The Candidate! He's the man for the Job.


@376, Cecil: "The little girl appeared in either a publicity still or a "Next week on Lost", I can't remember which at this point, in the Hydra season(3), but never actually showed up in a broadcast, provoking much discussion at the time on canonicity, to coin a word."

Ah, thanks!


@377, August Paul: "Maybe the word you're looking for is flocculating (as in the sense of coming out of the colloidal suspension of the smoke monster) ;)"

That would be Flockulating then?

@379, Mr. Naysayer: "Walt - what happened with him? That was a MAJOR plot point that was never revisited."

He grew up, which surprised TPTB apparently. So much for planning ahead. I guess they never thought they'd make it beyond the first season. I'd like to see or at least hear some more about him. It might still happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

@380, Revelation: "I do not understand why, back in the 1970's, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley... would not have tried to leave themselves a message, say in the caves, that would warned them against some of the misery that thney had met with in the future."

Whatever happened, happened. So even if they would leave a message, they could be sure they would not read it before fooming to the 1970's because, well, they did not read it before fooming to the 1970's.


"Another thing that really torqued my mind was that Miles went back to 1970's, and met a young charlotte. If Miles is living in his present time, how did he know about Charlotte's quest to return to the island. Charlotte dies before the last foom to the 70's. This could mean that Miles has memories of peices of this "present timeline"."

Not quite sure what you're saying here and the details of those scenes are not quite clear in my mind anymore, but as far as I remember it went like this: In Miles's own timeline he met Charlotte first when going to the Island on Widmore's boat, then they foomed around together until Charlotte died. Miles foomed on to the 70's and met young Charlotte (did he?), who in her own chronology obviously had not met Miles or any of the Foomies yet.

@387, Cecil: "While I was mentioning comic-com videos, I forgot there was another one of Chang broadcasting a warning through time because he didn't expect to survive. Which still may be relevant in Original-Flavor-Relaity."

O yes, and that one. :)


@389: glostover: "Hmmm, I wonder then if he shouldn't be missing a leg or arm since Ilana took a big handful of his ashes and put them in her little sack....hee hee"

Perhaps he's Jungle Girl?

#392. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 12:03 PM

#371 August Paul: I think that the viable comparison of LOST to the Book of Job is specifically that God and Satan's positions in Job mirror Jacob and MIB's positions in LOST.

That is, Satan (the pessimist)tells God (the optimist), "Sure Job is devoted to you but only because you give him cool stuff; take away the cool stuff and his devotion will disappear." And God responds, "No, you are mistaken...why don't you smite him with misfortune and I'll prove to you that Job's devotion is not dependent on having all his cool stuff." PS:God was correct.

In LOST, MIB is the pessimist and Jacob is the optimist. I suppose we could argue that Job's equivalent on the island is each and every candidate who has been to the island OR Job could be all mankind.

But I think that is the extent of the comparison because I don't think Jacob is concerned with candidate's devotion to him, he just wants people who will do the right thing without being coerced by promise of heaven or threat of hell ... just do it because it is the right thing to do. Jacob differs from God in that way.

When Ricardo asks Jacob to be absolved of his sin of murder, Jacob tells him he can't do that. Of course he can't! Jacob knows that forgiveness and absolution must come from within the sinner.

"...as I understood it, that Satan is not the devil but one of God's heavenly attendants."

My understanding of the origin of the devil/satan is that he is a fallen angel. I think if MIB & Jacob represent bibilical entities, that MIB is the fallen angel whatever his name is and Jacob is the Arch Angel Michael.

#393. Posted by: undauntid at April 29, 2010 12:04 PM

@392, myself : Forgot to put the link under my name. to Lostpedia and the Richard Alpert White Board Scene. Here it is.

#394. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 12:05 PM

Not positive on this, but just reading the previous posts and from previous episodes one of the greatest questions seems to be from when Ben lets Alex get shot and then Ben says he broke the rules. It has been a while since ive seen this episode, but isnt it after Alex is shot that he decides to release the smoke monster? So maybe up until that point smokey was somewhat contained and only after the rules were broken did Ben fully set him free. Not sure if that works but just a thought

#395. Posted by: addicted at April 29, 2010 12:05 PM

Off-topic alert:

@371, August Paul: "The LOST writers seem to have taken their inspiration from a variety of sources, many of which are unfamiliar to me since my own education was so filled with math, physics and chemistry there was no room left for classics, history, or poetry. Much the poorer I am for that. "

Why the false dichotomy? When do we finally start appreciating that math, physics and chemistry are as much a part of our collective culture as literature, history, and poetry, and that they are just as riveting if not more so. You are not poorer for studying math and physics. What a nonsensical thought. You are richer for doing so and for recognizing the gaps in your understanding of other subjects and your desire to fill them. Have we really not progressed much since C.P. Snow's "The Two Cultures"? A quotation:

"A good many times I have been present at gatherings of people who, by the standards of the traditional culture, are thought highly educated and who have with considerable gusto been expressing their incredulity at the illiteracy of scientists. Once or twice I have been provoked and have asked the company how many of them could describe the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The response was cold: it was also negative. Yet I was asking something which is the scientific equivalent of: Have you read a work of Shakespeare's?

I now believe that if I had asked an even simpler question — such as, What do you mean by mass, or acceleration, which is the scientific equivalent of saying, Can you read? — not more than one in ten of the highly educated would have felt that I was speaking the same language. So the great edifice of modern physics goes up, and the majority of the cleverest people in the western world have about as much insight into it as their neolithic ancestors would have had."

#396. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 12:16 PM

@370, Cecil Rose: "Now we can all get paranoid about which is the "official" version, just like we debate whether 'deleted scenes' and other materal count as canon. Remember the little girl looking though the window at Jack in the shark tank? The scene with Vincent sailing away with Michael and Walt in the 'making of' portion of one of the DVD sets?"

The little girl appeared in, I think, a publicity still, but was never shown in an actual episode.

For years, I heard that in a 'deleted scene' shown on the S-2 DVD, Michael and Walt took Vincent with them when they left the island at the end of season 2 - so how did Vincent show up on the island in season 3? Smoke monster imitation? Vincent=Jacob?

When I finally got the DVDs myself, it turned out the scene was in, iirc 'Lost on Location' but it was definitely there. So do we just ignore it or read something into the fact that Vincent was taken away and returned? My take - Vincent jumped off the boat and swam back, a la Jack in the last ep. Just couldn't leave all those delicious island mangos.

#397. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 12:22 PM

Dear Vacc:

Any chance you could post one last Lost Photo Caption to tide us over during this bye week?

Sincerely,
Your Biggest Fan,
Clementine

#398. Posted by: Clementine at April 29, 2010 12:22 PM

Dear Clementine:

Why does there only have to be *one* last Lost Photo Caption?

Sincerely,
Your Biggest Fan,
Cecil

#399. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 12:31 PM

#396. Posted by: Plain Simple

I read August Paul's statement differently than you did! I didn't think he was saying he regretted his course of study in math and the sciences, but that his intense focus on the study of math and the sciences regrettably left no room for the additional study of classics, history, or poetry.

#400. Posted by: undauntid at April 29, 2010 12:43 PM

#397. Cecil Rose

Admittedly. my memory sucks but I don't think Vincent went on the raft because I specifically remember feeling sad that Walt had to leave him behind for no good reason at all.

In any case...I have never followed any of the extra LOST stuff, comic-con videos, etc; consequently, the only LOST story I am familiar with is that story presented in the TV episodes.

My position is that if something didn't happen on the show, it flat out didn't happen. So that means Vincent was never on that raft.

#401. Posted by: undauntid at April 29, 2010 1:06 PM

@400, undauntid: "I read August Paul's statement differently than you did! I didn't think he was saying he regretted his course of study in math and the sciences, but that his intense focus on the study of math and the sciences regrettably left no room for the additional study of classics, history, or poetry."

I basically read it the same way, although his "Much the poorer I am for that" struck me as odd. During one's time in the educational system (actually, during one's entire life) one has a limited amount of time to spend studying and so choices have to be made. Sure, it would be great if we could all be polymaths, but that's not realistic. So I don't see making one choice or the other as leading to a poorer life. What I do see leading to a poorer life is dismissing the subjects you have not studied yourself as irrelevant, perhaps out of a fear of the unknown. Clearly August Paul's regret in not having much knowledge of literature and history is a sign of the opposite mindset. He doesn't dismiss them because he wasn't educated in them, but he desires to learn about them. So, all I'm saying is, he's not the poorer for that. He has knowledge of great, beautiful, and important subjects like math and science, and a desire to learn more about other intriguing subjects like history and literature. The culturally imposed dichotomy between the two always strikes me as dishonest, dangerous, and frankly a childish lashing out against that which one did not like back in school.

#402. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 1:14 PM

@402, myself: "he culturally imposed dichotomy between the two always strikes me as dishonest, dangerous, and frankly a childish lashing out against that which one did not like back in school."

Again, let me be clear here. I'm not saying that that is August Paul's mindset. Au contraire. But it does seem a larger cultural frame of mind in "the West".

#403. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 1:16 PM

#396. Posted by: Plain Simple

I have come accross this attitude as well. There many diverse types of intelligences among people. I have always found that where I may excel at one, someone else does not and visa versa. I realize that being intelligent and being wise do not go hand in hand. I still wish I had put more time into the classics on top of all the time i put into mathematics, physics, and chemistry. I f I had, my spelling would be much gooder!!

#404. Posted by: revelation at April 29, 2010 1:18 PM

@401 undauntid recalled:

>Admittedly. my memory sucks but I don't think Vincent went on the raft because I specifically remember feeling sad that Walt had to leave him behind for no good reason at all.

...

My position is that if something didn't happen on the show, it flat out didn't happen. So that means Vincent was never on that raft.

Not the raft. (S-1 finale). The motorboat that Ben gave Michael after he betrayed his friends into captivity (S-2 finale) right after the purple sky event.

We didn't see it in the actual episode, but in the scene shown on the "Lost on Location" section of the S-2 DVD, Vincent was definitely on the boat.

#405. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 1:27 PM

If Vincent was meant to have left the Island, I guess they could've shown him with Walt when O6!Locke met him. Since they didn't and we actually have seen (what seems to be) Vincent after the season 2 finale I'm going with the interpretation that Vincent did not leave on the boat.

#406. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 2:50 PM

Hurley is wrong about Anakin. Anakin never came back from the dark side. he became the epitome of what the dark side is by becoming Darth Vader.

Why would Hurley make such an incorrect reference to sawyer about Sayid's ability to come back from the dark side?

#407. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 29, 2010 2:53 PM

@407
But anakin did come back from the dark side! He became darth vader but in episode 6 he saves Luke from the dark sith, sacrificing his own life, and restores order to the force.

#408. Posted by: addicted at April 29, 2010 2:57 PM

And Anakin's spirit dances in the trees along with Yoda, Obi Wan Kenobi, and all the happy little Ewoks in the forests of Endor. Aren't we geeks!

#409. Posted by: Cecil at April 29, 2010 3:48 PM

If Vincent was meant to have left the Island, I guess they could've shown him with Walt when O6!Locke met him. Since they didn't and we actually have seen (what seems to be) Vincent after the season 2 finale I'm going with the interpretation that Vincent did not leave on the boat.

#410. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 4:06 PM

Sorry for the double post. Seems like blog trouble again?

#411. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 4:09 PM

Re: Vincent....I've owned Labs for years. I have a lab/chessie retriever now and I have to tell you that I've been suspicious of Vincent's true nature ever since Charlie was chucking the madonna statues in the ocean and Vincent the Labrador retriever did NOT swim out and bring back each of those statues. :)

#412. Posted by: undauntid at April 29, 2010 4:36 PM

Why in the previews for "Recruit" did they show Sayid shooting into the well. Maybe that happens in the next show.
What happened to the Dharma shark?

#413. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at April 29, 2010 5:03 PM

@ALEX ANGEL, addicted and Cecil/407-409:

Oh. My. Gawd.
I can't believe you just ruined the end of Stars Wars for me... spoiler tags, people!

:)

@Kompletely Lost/413: Good point... I forgot about the preview of Sayid shooting into the well! Now, is it a deleted scene that we'll never see again, will someone else end up in the well, or did Sayid actually shoot Dez (or at Dez)?

#414. Posted by: Clementine at April 29, 2010 5:22 PM

@413, Kompletely Lost: "What happened to the Dharma shark?"

And more importantly, did Lost jump it?

#415. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 29, 2010 5:28 PM

The Dharma Shark (J. Ezra Sharkington) was clearly visible swimming over the sunken island in the alt-world as Flight 815 flew by overhead in this season's premiere episode.

#416. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 5:54 PM

@Plain Simple
Lost is probably the one show that is soo out there that it might be able to (and may actually have) jumped the shark many times and you wouldn't really be able to tell for sure!

As far as the Vincent on the boat scene I think that was left out from the episode purposely as they must have realized they wanted to use him on the island more. Also if Vincent was Smokey as I've always thought then he wouldn't be able to leave. But that really brings the question why they included it in deleted scenes and not the many other such scenes they probably have. What do they put out outside the actual show meaning for it to be accepted as important?
I haven't followed much of what's been presented outside the show except for this blog. Certain things, like the Valenzetti equation have only truly been explained by things outside the show like the Lost Experience. If not for this blog I would have no understanding of what that equation meant. It seems like a fairly important concept to just leave out of the actual show. So do they expect us to accept answers given to us in other media and look at Lost as more than a show but an all encompassing experience with many pieces for us to put together? If so how are we to determine which pieces to keep and which to discard? I always wished they would have given the equation more actual screen time. I felt it was important enough to deserve that.
But I guess that's why I'm sitting here at home rather than writing for a big network show!

#417. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 29, 2010 6:00 PM

Well there's one you won't see on Lost:

Lance Reddick sings!!!

Also Anna Torv, Joshua Jackson, John Noble, and Jasika Nicole.

That was tonight's Fringe. In the midst of a possible interdimensional war, they took time out for an all-singing, all-dancing show, couched as a 40's film noirish fantasy detective tale spun by Walter Bishop (Noble) for the amusement of a child. Real oldsters will recall a similar episode of "The Prisoner" from the sixties.

Click my name below to go to a review but it won't be up until approximately two hours after this post.

#418. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 29, 2010 11:08 PM

Fringe Review's up.

#419. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 1:28 AM

Has anyone given any thought to where the Black Rock was for 20 years? A shame it's almost over because that could be a whole season on its own. Do you think it circled the island like Desmond did?

#420. Posted by: pebspostal at April 30, 2010 9:54 AM

@420 pebspostal:

I'm confused. What 20 years? The Black Rock crashed on the island in 1867, driven into the interior by a massive tidal wave in the storm. And has been in the middle of the jungle for 140 years. Or am I missing something?

#421. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 10:06 AM

#421. Cecil ____Could pebspostal be referring to the time frame between The Black Rock's voyage of 1845 (which was noted in the ship's log that Widmore bought) and it's crash on the island in 1867?

#422. Posted by: undauntid at April 30, 2010 10:47 AM

Hmmm didn't know about the date in the log. Time jump?

#423. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 10:54 AM

@ 420, 421

Someone help me here - the "enhancements" of Ab Aeterno actually explained the gap between 1842 and 1867 and how the 1842 log got into Widmore's hands at the auction, but I forget the details. I had got home late and wasn't able to focus yet.

Also, is it a stretch to think MIB can impersonate animals (Vincent, Kate's Horse, the random cow, etc.)?

#424. Posted by: glostover at April 30, 2010 10:54 AM

@418, Cecil Rose: "Real oldsters will recall a similar episode of "The Prisoner" from the sixties."

Iirc from waaay back when I saw The Prisoner (must have been the good old summer of '09 when I watched it on dvd) there was no song and dance involved, was there? You're talking about "The Girl Who Was Death", right?

Btw, click on my name to go to a website where you can watch the episodes.

@424, glostover: "Also, is it a stretch to think MIB can impersonate animals (Vincent, Kate's Horse, the random cow, etc.)?"

If MIB could impersonate cows he would've been called MOOB (must...resist...another...Hurley joke).

But seriously (never thought that was a realistic reply to the question if smoke monsters impersonating cows was overstretching it), we have no clue whatsoever what the limits of MIB's powers of disguise are. If this were the real world then of course I would like to see some evidence that MIB turns into dogs and cows, but seeing as this is a TV show and we're completely at the mercy of TPTB I guess we are invited to believe that at least Kate's horse was MIB. Not sure about the cows and why would you include Vincent here at all?

#425. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 30, 2010 11:22 AM

@425 Plain Simple expounder:

>>@418, Cecil Rose: "Real oldsters will recall a similar episode of "The Prisoner" from the sixties."

>Iirc from waaay back when I saw The Prisoner (must have been the good old summer of '09 when I watched it on dvd) there was no song and dance involved, was there? You're talking about "The Girl Who Was Death", right?

Right. No singing, no dancing, but the entire episode was a bedtime story told to children.

>...we have no clue whatsoever what the limits of MIB's powers of disguise are. If this were the real world then of course I would like to see some evidence that MIB turns into dogs and cows, but seeing as this is a TV show and we're completely at the mercy of TPTB I guess we are invited to believe that at least Kate's horse was MIB. Not sure about the cows and why would you include Vincent here at all?

And how about Sawyer's frog and Sawyer's hog? Patchy's cat? Hurley's bird? Pretty sure the cows were just cows. Vincent may be a special case. A most un-Lably Lab, as someone pointed out.

Now here's a twist. Could the smoke monster appear as *Jacob*? Especially all those appearances to Hurley after Jacob's "death" (which I'm still not sure if I completely believe in.) Don't recall anyone questioning the authenticity of the post-death Jacob apparitions but what if they're all Smokey too?

#426. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 12:13 PM

Just occurred to me that "Jacob" was the one who caused Sayid to be taken to the temple and dunked, which apparently ended up serving Smokey's ends creating the First Iraqi Zombie Corps. Evidence?

#427. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 12:17 PM

(Groan alert, be forewarned...it's Friday)

Plain Simple,

That's b-a-a-a-a-a-a-d. Of horse MIB can't turn into animals. Bear with me, don't want to boar you with the details, but that would bee for the birds. I mean, ha ha, it would be bunny to see, but doggone it, frogedaboudit, cats got to be urchin toward jumping the shark.

#428. Posted by: Scooby-Doolittle at April 30, 2010 1:54 PM

@407 ALEX ANGEL
@408 addicted
@409 Cecil

This little exchange enlightened me to interpret Hurley's Anakin comment this way: Maybe like Anakin, Sayid is destined to remain on the dark side, but at a key point in this endgame he will become a sacrifice that will:

a) unite the Alt lines
b) "elect" the candidate
c) miraculously restore Claire's hair to its former shine and luster
d) all the above!

@412 undauntid - I've had retrievers, too, know exactly what you mean about Vincent!

@413 Kompletely Lost
@415 Plain Simple
@416 Cecil Rose
@417 Crispy Seaplanes

I think LOST has added another dimension to the "Jumping The Shark" idiom, say maybe "Slalom The Shark"!

#429. Posted by: robinpiney at April 30, 2010 2:02 PM

ok, we're starting to get weird now.

#430. Posted by: davidrh at April 30, 2010 2:03 PM

nevermind.

#431. Posted by: davidrh at April 30, 2010 2:05 PM

@426, "Don't recall anyone questioning the authenticity of the post-death Jacob apparitions but what if they're all Smokey too?"

Skipped all my posts this season, have you? ;)


@428, Scooby-Doolittle: Stop badgering me with those foxy cats phrases.

#432. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 30, 2010 2:06 PM

@400 undauntid and related posts by Plain Simple and Revelation

Yes, I did not mean I regretted my course of study in math and sciences, but rather there was much in literature and history that I did not pick up. I made an entire career out of scientific research: in the lab, on the computer, and in the corridors of power. I have always wished I knew more about almost everything. I wish I could read Flaubert in French. I suppose I was overreacting when I said I was the poorer for it, but it sounded sort of artsy, so I wrote it.

Before leaving this off-topic, I might add that I have experienced less of the two cultures "debate" (in quotes because it was a one sided debate with the non-scientists not paying much attention) in the last 20 years than in the years before that. I think we have gone beyond that even though the populace is not particularly more scientifically literate than it was 20 years ago. I read that a significant fraction (I've heard 50% but I can't believe it) still think the sun goes around the earth.

LOST is interesting primarily because of its references to both cultures. If the references to classics, myth, and religion are as loopy as its references to science, then I have probably given the writers with more credit than they deserve. But they have created a whale of a good story (a Dharma shark of a good story whether jumped or not) and loose ends or not, it has been a great ride.

oh yes, I enjoyed the C. P. Snow novels better than "The Two Cultures."

#433. Posted by: August Paul at April 30, 2010 2:22 PM

@432 Plain Simple objected:

>>@426, "Don't recall anyone questioning the authenticity of the post-death Jacob apparitions but what if they're all Smokey too?"

>Skipped all my posts this season, have you? ;)

Point me to one of those, I promise I've read every word, but my memories sometomes plays tricks on me.

#434. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 2:25 PM

#426. Posted by: Cecil "Now here's a twist. Could the smoke monster appear as *Jacob*? Especially all those appearances to Hurley after Jacob's "death" (which I'm still not sure if I completely believe in.) Don't recall anyone questioning the authenticity of the post-death Jacob apparitions but what if they're all Smokey too?"

Oh man Cecil....If MIB can appear as Jacob without appearing....then everyone's dreams, Hurley's "visions", and the dead's last thoughts via Miles are all suspect.

#435. Posted by: undauntid at April 30, 2010 2:50 PM

@436:
I think Miles has been proven correct in his interpretation of the dead's last thoughts, right? He was right that Linus killed Jacob, and I think he's been right about some others too.

#436. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 30, 2010 3:37 PM

@436:
I think Miles has been proven correct in his interpretation of the dead's last thoughts, right? He was right that Linus killed Jacob, and I think he's been right about some others too.

#437. Posted by: BostonSteve at April 30, 2010 3:37 PM

Oh man, y'all are getting silly now! LOL and *groan*.

The late and no longer intact Ilana said that now that Jacob is dead MIB is Locke stuck (and barrel). So he can't be Jacob....or Vincent...any more.

#438. Posted by: glostover at April 30, 2010 3:38 PM

@438 glostover said:

>The late and no longer intact Ilana said that now that Jacob is dead MIB is Locke stuck ... So he can't be Jacob....or Vincent...any more.

And on what basis do we conclude that she knew what she was talking about, this woman who slams water bottles on top of unstable dynamite?

#439. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 30, 2010 4:20 PM

@434, Cecil: "Point me to one of those, I promise I've read every word, but my memories sometomes plays tricks on me."

No worries, I was just making fun. However, I have been critical of Hurley's apparitions, including the Jacob one. I don't have time now to look for a specific example buried in all the posts this season, but I'm pretty sure that whenever I mentioned Jacob's apparition to Hurley I put in some quantifier like "if it's not all in his head".

I don't particularly think that we will get any more info on this than we currently have, so within the confines of the show you can think whatever you want about those appearances I guess.

@438, glostover: "Locke stuck (and barrel)"

Lol!

#440. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 30, 2010 4:38 PM

@440 Plain Simple qualified:

>I'm pretty sure that whenever I mentioned Jacob's apparition to Hurley I put in some quantifier like "if it's not all in his head".

I think the "not all in his head" part can be refuted by such facts as:

1) "Jacob" told him what flight to go to and that was indeed the flight that got him back to the island.

2) "Jacob" have him a physical object (guitar case, with ankh inside case, with note inside ankh) and said object convinced Dogen not to kill him and his friends.

3) "Jacob" gave him instructions to the temple and the instructions got them thre.

4) "Jacob" told him where to take Jack, and the instructions led them to the lighthouse.

These examples pretty well dispel the 'all an illusion inside hurley's head hypothesis', to me. But they still leave open the "Jacob" isn't really Jacob hypothesis, or at least on-island, post-death Jacob" isn't really Jacob.

#441. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 4:47 PM

#421. Posted by: Cecil

From The Constant, S4E5

"AUCTIONEER: The Black Rock set sail from Portsmouth England on March 22, 1845 on a trading mission to the kingdom of Siam, when she was tragically lost at sea. The only known artifact of this journey is the journal of the ship's first mate, which was discovered among the artifacts of pirates on the Ile Sante-Marie off the coast of Madagascar seven years later. The contents of this journal have never been made public, or known to anyone outside the family of the seller, Tovard Hanso."

Where was this ship until it crashed in 1867? Why did the family finally put the journal up for auction?

#442. Posted by: pebspostal at April 30, 2010 5:43 PM

A great poem for Losties. I can't believe I didn't think of this first.
Click my name.

#443. Posted by: Cecil at April 30, 2010 6:11 PM

Is it possible:

Jacob can only create ghosts of other people he wants some one to see or hear;

while MIB creates physical manifestations of those people.

Example, when dead Charlie shows up at Santa Rosa, and Hurley says he is not real, but then Charlie physically slaps him: Ghost or physical manifestation of Charlie?

#444. Posted by: welh at April 30, 2010 6:30 PM

@434--Great poem is right. And despite wracking my brain for seconds I couldnt come up with anything better for U and X than the author did.
@438--well of course we are getting silly. That's what happens when we are so close to the end and all we got this week was an enhanced re-run. I've personally gone beyond silly to nervous and cranky. And please dont tell me that Vincent appearances are actually MIB. Because then I will get ugly too....

#445. Posted by: Linda at April 30, 2010 6:44 PM

In my post above, that first comment should read @443. Apparently I'm also losing my ability to type....

#446. Posted by: Linda at April 30, 2010 6:47 PM

Thanks for the link Cecil. Splendid poem!

#447. Posted by: undauntid at April 30, 2010 10:24 PM

To the conversation on MIB and animals, TPTB confirmed that Smokey appeared as a Medusa spider in the Paulo-Nikki biting scene, and the mechanical Smokey sounds can clearly be heard in this scene.

That use of Smokey as insect always seemed a little silly to me, diluting its menance and mythic power, but there you go.

I'd have to dig through the podcasts. but I think there has also been the inference that MIB appeared as Kate's horse as well.

Smokey/MIB's appearances throughout the show always seem to come in one of two flavors: instrument of death, or emotional manipulation to advance its agenda.

Given that, it's ironic that so many Lost characters seem to take what he is saying at face value (and yes, I know- they don't share information very well).

Still holding out hope that Widmore is in cahoots with MIB, and is working to facilitate the erasing of the candidates- just seems like a nice little twist that would explain a lot of open ends in the show.....

#448. Posted by: Mizzed at April 30, 2010 11:41 PM

#448.Mizzed _____ See now, the MIB does have a compassionate side: He rid us of Paulikki.

Re: Widmore being in cahoots with MIB: I'm with you on this. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that is the case. Widmore has an agenda and it has nothing to do with serving Jacob or the island. I can't shake the sense of Widmore and Paik being most high mucky-mucks in a paranoid's Tri-Lateral Commission kind of way.

#449. Posted by: undauntid at May 1, 2010 10:52 AM

I actually had a little trouble deciding who "The Last Recruit" was. At times, I'm rather slow. Mac opined, "We learn there's some odd rule that once you let Flocke talk to you, you're one of his recruits" I went to the ABC site to review what it was that Claire actually said:

Claire: It means a lot you're coming with us.

Jack: Actually, I haven't decided if I'm coming with you

Claire: Yeah you have. You decided the moment you let him talk to you. Like the rest of us. Like it or not, you're with him now.

I am not sure I buy this. I am sure Claire believes what she is saying, but maybe she is making excuses for leaving baby Aaron and following Fchristian. Also through the use of "us" she believes the rest of them are with Flocke. But they aren't are they? Sawyer isn't really with him unless Sawyer doesn't know it. And Jack's purpose for returning to the island was not to join Flocke in helping him leave the island but to fulfill the island's purpose and keep MIB there.

I suppose Jack was the last recruit in that he was the last candidate to encounter Flocke. And Flocke made it clear that ALL the candidates had to go with him. Perhaps the title "The Last Recruit" was intended to be ironic.

But MIB/Flocke/Fchristian lie when it suits him. As when he tells Jack, "All I've ever been interested in is helping you."

I think I do believe Flocke's comment to Jack, "Because Jacob chose you, you were trapped on this island before you even got here."

I was also struck by Sun's recognition of Locke in Altverse when they were being wheeled into the hospital on stretchers. Others have noted it as another sign of universal leakage. I was more struck by her reaction, "It's him. It's him!" She did not seem pleased to see him at all! If we hadn't been told otherwise, I might have thought that the Altverse was the future after all the events on the island had come to a conclusion and the losties are living normal lives but with residual memories of their experiences.

Other comments to early posters,

@ xxxsunilneb sevol ybmuglae #9 "...Jack. He is the 'Last Recruit' - probably the only one needed by fake-Locke." Not so, as Flocke told him later that they all had to go.

@ Gram #46 "Maybe Sun not being able to speak to Flocke has some significance. Once you speak to Flocke you become a recruit." According to Claire, it is when you let Flocke speak to you.

#450. Posted by: August Paul at May 1, 2010 10:54 AM

@Cecil #443 As a fan of Gorey, I appreciated this poem very much.

@Mizzed #448 I'm with you and Undauntid on this.

#451. Posted by: August Paul at May 1, 2010 11:20 AM

Off topic: Hooray, Hooray
The First of May
The outdoor fun begins today

#452. Posted by: August Paul at May 1, 2010 11:22 AM

#450. Posted by: August Paul: "Claire: Yeah you have. You decided the moment you let him talk to you. Like the rest of us. Like it or not, you're with him now." I agree with you August Paul...Claire believes it, but it isn't so.

RE: Sun's reaction to seeing John in the ATL, "I was more struck by her reaction, "It's him. It's him!" She did not seem pleased to see him at all!" Yes, interesting because she didn't say to Jin, "OMG, That's John Locke." Seemed she was zeroing in on Flocke specifically.

How can that be? I know the captions on the enhanced episode told us the alt-verse is what happened if 815 never crashed. Right here I was going to hypothesize on how that could be, but I got dizzy and had to stop thinking for a minute.

Of the people in Alt-verse who knew MIB on the island, Sun is the only awakened one (via near death experience) who thus far has seen John Locke. Is that why she (appears) to recognize MIB? Hurley is being awakened, Charlie is awakened, when they see "Locke" will they also recognize him as MIB? I can't even venture a guess about what it is Desmond recognizes or knows.

I am flummoxed (IAF)

#453. Posted by: undauntid at May 1, 2010 12:02 PM

Speaking of Widmore... Are he and Eloise on the same team? They were both on the island back in 1954 so they both have first hand knowledge of the island. I believe Widmore wants to exploit for personal gain the island's unique properties, but I think Eloise's interest (and work) is solely predicated upon an agreement she made with either MIB or Jacob.

It seems that Eloise knows everything in every timeline we have seen … except for the 1954 incident where she kills her future son. It is only after she murdered Daniel that she becomes privy to what happens in all time lines. Although now that I think about it, Eloise said that, for the first time in a long time, she wasn't sure what was going to happen when Ben shot Widmore at the dock.

Who is Penny's mother?

I wonder if #108 Wallace on the lighthouse wheel might be Desmond's real surname. Jacob wanted Jack to "tune" the compass, mirrors to 108. Maybe Wallace is Zoe?

#454. Posted by: undauntid at May 1, 2010 3:04 PM

@undauntid #454

I think you are on to something in the analysis of Eloise. Her killing of Faraday may also have occurred because of some rule that was accidentally broken. I don't think she is bad so much as arrogant. I believe we will see more about this. Also I agree with your view of Widmore's motives.

Ben shot Desmond at the dock which I am sure is a mistype on your part.

Who is Penny's mother indeed. Maybe it doesn't matter.

I don't think Zoe is interesting (i.e., not significant to the story line, she might be a really interesting person but that doesn't matter.)

#455. Posted by: August Paul at May 1, 2010 4:59 PM

#455 August Paul: "Ben shot Desmond at the dock which I am sure is a mistype on your part.

Who is Penny's mother indeed. Maybe it doesn't matter.

I don't think Zoe is interesting (i.e., not significant to the story line, she might be a really interesting person but that doesn't matter.)"

I concur on all points.

#456. Posted by: undauntid at May 1, 2010 7:18 PM

OK Colin and all you other haters... STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY AND GO WATCH ANOTHER SHOW... SICK OF HEARING IT!!!!

#457. Posted by: TrueFan at May 1, 2010 10:44 PM

OFF SUBJECT -

FLASHFORWARD is beginning to pick up speed. Maybe it WILL last more than one season.

#458. Posted by: davidrh at May 2, 2010 9:48 AM

@ davidrh

I really hope so. I've been trying to get caught up with my dvr'd episodes the past few weeks and I'm still way behind. It's the closest thing that engages me with the characters and story the way Lost does.
I tried to get into Fringe end of last season but it just wasn't doing it for me. I didn't really care about any of the characters.
FlashForward seems to be getting pretty good at ending the episode with a zinger that makes you anxious to see what happens next. I hope it lasts awhile.

#459. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 2, 2010 10:28 AM

Totally agree re: "Flashforward" and "Fringe." I thought "Fringe" really found its footing at the end of season one, and season two has been consistently fantastic. The hiatus appears to have given "Flashforward" a much-needed shot of creativity.

BTW -- Cecil is doing an awesome job with TV Fodder's "Fringe" blog: http://www.tvfodder.com/fringe

#460. Posted by: mac at May 2, 2010 10:39 AM

@ davidrh #239. Warning, short post. LOL! Don't know why I didn't LOL the first time through.

#461. Posted by: August Paul at May 2, 2010 2:40 PM

I'm afraid I have started too late to really know what is happening on FRINGE. Perhaps this summer I can catch up.

FLASHFORWARD has really improved in just the past three weeks. The story has really branched out and ALL the characters are beginning to have some importance to the entire plot. The allure of "Charlie" and "Penny" as a draw is becoming less important.

As for "V", as much as I loved "juliet", I stopped dvr-ing the show two weeks ago. It was just not going anywhere that really held my interest. It's all so "I've seen this all before"-ish.

I saw one of those newspaper articles several weeks ago about show "on the bubble" and both V and FF were on the "in danger" list. Hopefully FF manages to redeem itself.

#462. Posted by: davidrh at May 2, 2010 2:41 PM

@ TrueFan #457 Tsk Tsk, see rule 4 below. You must have jumped straight to the comment box after reading Colin's list of grievances since his post provoked a host of responses pro and con. I will admit to a certain sense of pique when I read them, but figured a forum like this is an exchange of ideas, pro and con. So I took a deep breath and told him why a full boat may go slower than an empty one. I like music by Philip Glass and my wife hates it, but we are still married after 51 years. I have yet to be called an imbecile by the posters here for which I am eternally grateful.

#463. Posted by: August Paul at May 2, 2010 2:51 PM

V isn't doing it for me either. Been listening to the episodes but not paying full attention. Still have them on the dvr with thoughts of catching up but who knows. I was a huge fan of the original and this one while it has good points just isn't as original or compelling. And it's so different. I would have preferred a straight up sequel than a reimagining.
And I've thought of giving Fringe another shot. Not sure how to catch up at this point though other than just reading all Cecil's recaps. That might be doable.
IITY?

#464. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 2, 2010 10:30 PM

I'm working on something called "A Lost Fan's Guide to Fringe" which I hope to post in a few weeks. Sort of a way to introduce folks to both the similarities and differences of the two seriees

#465. Posted by: Cecil at May 3, 2010 2:02 AM

@279. Posted by: rainlover57
re: How did Kate learn to sail?

Well played rainlover57...... well played!


@293. Posted by: lovelost
re: "So where is my father's body??"

No kidding. I felt let down that he did not ask this. You'd think he'd at least inquire if the body is buried, or go pay some last respects.


@336. Posted by: August Paul
re: Alt Pierre Chang

Chang leads a much healthier lifestyle that Linus. All those years of stress and boozing caught up with Roger. Chang might be sensitive, and colouring his hair. I know plenty of people who age gracefully - ie resemblance does not change much. Lucky genes?


Lastly,

Click my name for an amusing take on how things are wrapping up with the show!

New episode in a day - Woop!

#466. Posted by: shikotee at May 3, 2010 9:58 AM

So the whisperers are people who died on the island and can't move on..... That makes them ghosts. Sorry, I just can't believe that LOST has ghosts on it.

I know it's silly for me to reject ghosts while embracing a FDW. But I think the fact that those are dead people whispering is giving us a big hint. About what? I have no freaking idea!

Speaking of the dead on the island, it occurs to me that the only reason for Miles to still be on the show is so he can tell us someone's last thoughts and at this late date, one of the BIG mysteries is Adam and Eve. So I'm thinking Miles will reveal their last thoughts and then ....Happy Trails Miles.

#467. Posted by: undauntid at May 3, 2010 11:20 AM

@467. Posted by: undauntid

Maybe Adam and Eve are still around on the island and can't move on.

#468. Posted by: Revelation at May 3, 2010 12:09 PM

#468.Revelation, "Maybe Adam and Eve are still around on the island and can't move on."

Oooooooooo....Perhaps they are!

#469. Posted by: undauntid at May 3, 2010 12:59 PM

The Latest ABC Video Podcast (4/29) features Rob Kiker - props man, who was also the figure in the chair (Jacob?) in "The Man Behind The Curtain."

When you see him you can definitely tell that the figure was him, and also see why I guessed Michael Gross (and some people guessed Dennis Hopper) there's definitely a resemblance there.

#470. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 3, 2010 2:58 PM

What if "Adam & Eve" really are Adam & Eve? And the parents of MIB and Jacob? Eve ate the apple and brought original sin into the world (MIBs reference to his 'crazy' mom) and pain upon childbirth to womankind. Three of their kids were Cain, Abel and Seth but their other children were unamed in the bible. On second thought it can't be ... no one would name their kid MIb or Flocke :)

#471. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 3, 2010 3:55 PM

@471. Posted by: Kompletely Lost
re: What if "Adam & Eve" really are Adam & Eve?

It's quite possible that Cain and Abel wanted to distance themselves from their folks, and opted to legally change their names to Flocke and Jacob. Rumour has it that the legally binding etchings can be found in a cave or ruin on the island.

#472. Posted by: shikotee at May 3, 2010 4:25 PM

@471 - 472
The whispers said that Adam changed his name to the entity formerly known as Abel.

#473. Posted by: Revelation at May 3, 2010 4:31 PM

Guenter Wendt died today - one of the little know heroes of the space age - the "Pad Fuhrer" in charge of the clean room nestled around the Apollo capsules where the astronauts were shoe-horned into their craft for launch into space.

R.I.P. Guenter Wendt

#474. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 3, 2010 4:58 PM

I just realized that it's MAY and this freaking show is over in 20 DAYS!!!!

AAAAAAAAAURGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#475. Posted by: Clementine at May 3, 2010 8:14 PM

@471, Kompletely Lost: "What if "Adam & Eve" really are Adam & Eve? "

I always fail to see the attraction these kinds of ideas seem to have on people. What do we gain, in terms of understanding the story of Lost, when it turns out that any or all of the characters on Lost are `really' some characters from another story? It doesn't add anything to the Lost story, except for a lot of confusion when suddenly faced with the need to turn the combined Lost/Genesis story into a coherent whole, it doesn't tell us anything insightful about the characters ---or should I think along the following lines: If MIB and Jacob are Adam and Eve's kids they might have learned the manipulation game from seeing their parents being tossed around by beings even more powerful?

Lifting ideas and themes from other stories and incorporating them in Lost to add that extra layer, sure, great. But just wholesale lifting characters from one work and putting them in Lost seems very uninspired.

Well, I don't think we're heading for such a literal literature transplant, but if we are, you may count me amongst the disappointed.

#476. Posted by: Plain Simple at May 3, 2010 8:20 PM

@476. Posted by: Plain Simple

Now I'm confused. I was under the impression that we were totally joking about Adam and Eve being Adam and Eve.

But just to keep playing - for those of you who are worried that there does not appear to be "Apple" trees on the island, just remember that it is actually a "fruit" from the tree of knowledge. The other thing is but propaganda from Steve Jobs....

#477. Posted by: shikotee at May 3, 2010 9:50 PM

@477, shikotee: "Now I'm confused. I was under the impression that we were totally joking about Adam and Eve being Adam and Eve."

Well, in that case consider it a serious comment in reaction to a joke. :)

But this is not the first time that people have offered the hypothesis that MIB and Jacob might be Cain and Abel; or god and satan; or (in years past) a whole host of Egyptian deities, etc. etc.

#478. Posted by: Plain Simple at May 4, 2010 12:54 AM

Funny! I think just like you all here! So interesting.
I am sad Lost is over in 20 days (it ends on my birthday so at least it's my present).
I hate V, it sucks.
I love Fringe.
I like Flashforward.
We are have minds the same!
Now, nobody every replied -- do you think Adam and Eve could be the dead bodies of Jacob and MiB??

#479. Posted by: Christina at May 4, 2010 1:46 AM

@479 Cristina

I think it's possible, but it would make more sense to me if they were their (or at least MIB's) parents.

#480. Posted by: Mischa at May 4, 2010 5:19 AM

AAAAAAAAAURGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#475. Posted by: Clementine

For some strange reason, I concur completely with your statement . . .

#481. Posted by: davidrh at May 4, 2010 6:25 AM

#476. Plain Simple >>>> I agree. The only reason I can up with for Adam and Eve being Adam and Eve (or Cain and Abel) is that is would be evidence of the antiquity of the island's settlement; however, for all intents and purposes, the Egyptian statue accomplishes that.

I think Adam and Eve will be revealed to be people directly connected to the LOST story line... MIB and someone else, perhaps Mom.

When we first met Adam and Eve I thought it would be interesting if they were Amelia Earhardt and Fred Noonan.

#482. Posted by: undauntid at May 4, 2010 9:39 AM

When we first met Adam and Eve I thought it would be interesting if they were Amelia Earhardt and Fred Noonan.
#482. Posted by: undauntid


Now THAT would be really be a twist!!! And pretty LOL surprise!

#483. Posted by: davidrh at May 4, 2010 10:00 AM

The writers teased us in with Amelia Earhart in "Not in Portland" with Herarat (anagram of Earhart) Aviation, but I think that's all it was - a tease.

Those proposing Jacob/MIB forget that Jack identified one of the skeletons as female. Plus we're not even sure if Jacob and MIB HAVE bodies.

I'm leaning toward Bernard and Rose, or possibly Jack and Kate (sorry Skaters), especially if Jack is shown to be THE candidate tonight.

#484. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2010 10:26 AM

Even with an extra week to accumulate posts "The Last Recruit" still needs 14 more to pass the Season Six record holder, "Ab Aeterno". Of course comparisons are complicated in that many of the extra posts accumulated herein are ABOUT "Ab Aeterno" which was rerun in the off week.

#485. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2010 10:30 AM

@482, undauntid: "When we first met Adam and Eve I thought it would be interesting if they were Amelia Earhardt and Fred Noonan."

Star Trek Voyager once did an episode where the Voyager finds Earhart, Noonan, and a bunch of other people on the other side of the galaxy. Apparently they had been abducted by aliens and brought there. It's ages ago I saw this (a little Google search says the title is "The 37's"), but from what I remember the whole thing was rather nondescript except for the Earhart gimmick. Based on that one example of Earhart in SciFi I'm glad Lost didn't go there.

#486. Posted by: Plain Simple at May 4, 2010 11:14 AM

Doc Jensen just published a good lead-in column to tonight's episode. Click myname for the link.

#487. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2010 5:19 PM

Quick note to all, and no I haven't read all of the posts - I just don't have time to catch up with the final 200 I haven't yet read so if someone else already posted this you've have read it twice... ;)

Doc Jensen will have an "instant reaction" to the episode that he's already crafting as we speak (he has already seen the episode or at least knows a lot of it already). It will be available at around 10:30pm EST for those of you that just can't wait until Mac gets his typed up and just need some kind of fix to get you through until it's finished. Doc's latest post can be found at:

http://tinyurl.com/29ek9fb

I expect that you should be able to navigate your way to his latest post once it becomes available from somewhere within the above listed link.

Hope everyone had a great two weeks. Onwards!

#488. Posted by: LostedIt at May 4, 2010 5:29 PM

Doh! Cecil beat me to it while I was typing up my note!!! Aaaaaaaauuuuuugh!!!

#489. Posted by: LostedIt at May 4, 2010 5:32 PM

In a last minute reaction to Cecil's observation that we need a few more posts to this week's comments and since I've been here since Season Two and have only contributed once in that time (I added my pin to the map of the blog's followers), I figured I'd make at least one comment before the end: I hope Charlie brings Claire some peanut butter. Thanks for all of your insightful and interesting commentary over the years!

#490. Posted by: Lagniappe at May 4, 2010 6:03 PM

@490, Lagniappe: "I hope Charlie brings Claire some peanut butter."

Real or imaginary? (P.S. Still some weeks to go and contribute more Lagniappe!)

#491. Posted by: Plain Simple at May 4, 2010 7:01 PM

@479. Posted by: Christina

I have not watched V. Why does it suck?

Fringe is awesome. Once this show wraps up, will have to check out Cecil's write-ups. Potential new stalker here!

I have not watched Flashforward.

I already watch way too much TV, and I prefer to wait until a show is picked up for a 2nd season before checking it out.

I think Adam and Eve will be characters that we know. My first choice is Sun and Jin. Next - Rose and Bernard. Sayid and Claire. Lastly - Kate and Sawyer (maybe Jack).

#492. Posted by: shikotee at May 4, 2010 8:23 PM

@492 shikotee et al Fringe-o-philes - Why wait? Cecil's been doing some great synopses. Sacrilige here, perhaps, but IMO Walter Bishop is the best character on TV, my favorite anyway. He resonates with me like no other character I can recall. He combines two types that became common and all-too-well-known from my school peer groups: The Geeky Obsessed Science Nerd and The Acid/Drug Casualty Burnout. Don't believe anyone has written a character so thoroughly embracing these two archetypes before now.

#493. Posted by: robinpiney at May 4, 2010 9:48 PM

checking in from oklahoma: just finished watching it. Be warned it runs a little long so if you are recording add some time. I didn't pay attention to how long it ran over because.... wow.

#494. Posted by: undauntid at May 4, 2010 10:19 PM

Doc Jensen's post-episode "wrapup" is up. Click my name for the link.

Unbelievable.

I think what's more unbelievable is that my @#$%@#$@ dvr didn't record the show and when I checked in at 9:18 like I usually do so I can watch the show uninterrupted and still end on time I was devastated to find out that I'd missed 18 minutes of the episode!!!!!

Now I'm going to need to wait for Mac's review AND wait for the post of the episode on abc's site so I can see it for my own eye. Mac, if you truly love me you'll go into that *little* extra detail about the first 18 minutes so I can find out as quickly as possible what I missed. ;)

#495. Posted by: LostedIt at May 4, 2010 10:33 PM

@493. Posted by: robinpiney

Just a time thingy really. I need to set limitations to my obsessions. Once Lost is finito, I'll have an opening, and will likely read up on Fringe between S2 and S3.

And yeah - Walter Bishop is a great eccentric character.

***** Fringe Spoiler ******

My money is on parallel Walter being the one who crosses over to the regular dimension. I expect he will be quite the jerk.

#496. Posted by: shikotee at May 4, 2010 10:36 PM

I think Adam and Eve will be characters that we know. My first choice is Sun and Jin. #492. Posted by: shikotee

BBBBUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZ! Do Over.

#497. Posted by: davidrh at May 4, 2010 11:16 PM

@496 shikotee:

Hey, come over to the Fringe blog and say that (it's under my name) - maybe we can get a discussion going.

FWIW, I agree with you, but I'm wondering why they went to all that trouble and expended so many resources to get one man over in their one chance for the next seven months, when they, as we saw, clearly have the capability to send much more.

#498. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2010 11:33 PM

Well, what's the overs and unders on the time for vacc's review going up.

First "Jughead" and now "The Candidate". How is it mac always goes out of town on the most earthshaking eps?

#499. Posted by: Cecil at May 4, 2010 11:43 PM

Also, Ack's mini-recap for "The Candidate is up. Click my name to go.

Caution: Let's avoid any revelations about "The Candidate" here so folks in the future watching the DVD's and referring to mac's reviews won't be spoiled by "The Candidate" revelations in "The Last Recruit" blog.

#500. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 4, 2010 11:47 PM

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#501. Posted by: Pharmc535 at May 6, 2010 7:47 AM

Michael didn't convince Hurley to get Jack to speak with Flocke. He simply told Hurley where the latter could find old Smokey. Hurley had already made up his mind.

#502. Posted by: Rosie at May 15, 2010 3:35 AM

Hi all!


Bye

#503. Posted by: Test at May 18, 2010 7:16 AM