The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Candidate"

Season 6, Episode 14
Episode Air Date: 05/04/10

Point 1

Sun Jin

It seems that the only way for MIB to actually leave the Island is to orchestrate the death of all the candidates - without actually killing them on his own.  To that end, Flocke managed to cross a couple of high-profile names off the list tonight - Kwon and Jarrah.   The war we all knew was coming to the Island kicked into high gear, and I gotta admit that Flocke earned my respect as both a general and tactician.   The on-island action moves to Hydra Island this week as Sayid, Flocke and Jack mount a rescue operation to recover Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Lapidus, and Claire - after Charles Widmore tossed them into Polar Bear cages - supposedly for their protection.   The plan is simple and executed flawlessly - Smokey kills the posted sentries, and Jack springs open the cage.   Now armed with a full complement of candidates - plus a commercial airline pilot - Flocke heads to the grounded Ajira plane.  Since Widmore has already loaded the plane with C4 explosive wired to blow if they try to leave,  Flocke turns to the secondary protocol - hijacking the submarine.   Sawyer once again attempts to double-cross Flocke.  Despite Kate getting shot and Claire getting left behind, Sawyers plan to commandeer the sub and strand Flocke looked like it might work. Only this was exactly what Flocke had wanted all along - to get the candidates together in one place and wipe them out.  Flocke switched backpacks with Jack, leaving him to board the submarine with a bag of C4 wired to the watch Flocke swiped from one of the minions guarding the Ajira flight.  If Jack is correct, then the only way they could be killed is by each other - but Sawyer isn't prepared to bet his life on that so soon after watching Juliet die because of Jack's last great idea.  I'm with Sawyer on this one - I'd start pulling wires too.  The relief is short lived as the countdown resumes at Tivo speed.  Sayid seizes the bomb - and with it a chance for redemption - and speeds away from everyone else before .. BOOM!  MIB crosses Jarrah off the list.   Then the teary, long-awaited reunion of Sun and Jin quickly turned into an even more teary farewell.  Sun is firmly pinned in the debris of the sinking submarine, and Jin is unwilling to leave her.  And while we know that Jin is extremely resilient - having survived both the raft and freighter explosions, he won't be safely washing up on the Island shore this time. MIB crosses Kwon off the list.   I figured Lapidus would make it out somehow, but I didn't see him again after he was knocked underwater on the Poseidon so I'm presuming that he's a goner.  

Point 2

Jack Flocke Anthony Cooper

We've already witnessed a fair amount of "role reversal" in our characters this season - especially in the Alt Timeline. But this episode provided the most dramatic role reversals yet - such as Flocke trying to convince Jack to leave the Island, while Jack is committed to staying.  We learn that Alt Locke was paralyzed in a plane crash whereas Locke's paralysis was gone as a result of the original 815 crash.  And how about Alt John Locke being the cause of Anthony Cooper's paralysis? 

Speaking of Anthony Cooper, Locke's daddy may be "gone" according to Dr. Sheppard, but he somehow still manages to avoid law enforcement.  I wonder what Detective James Ford  will do once he finally tracks down the real Sawyer.   In the Alt timeline, the 815 passengers lives continue to intersect - Jack repairs the injuries Locke sustained when Desmond ran him down. then goes a step further by telling Locke that he's a Candidate.... for a procedure that could help him walk again.  To which Locke adamantly responds "Don't tell me what I CAN do!"   One thing absent from the Alt storyline was any tangible timeline crossover or memories - other than Locke's sleep mumblings "Push the button" , "I wish you had believed me", and "He was a sacrifice the Island demanded"   Wasn't that the reason Desmond ran him over? 

Point 3

Aaron Ji Jeon

They better get used to living with Grandma.  After this episode, I made my wife promise not to abandon our kid and try to rescue me if I ever end up on the Island. 

Point 4

Widmore Desmond Sayid

Still don't know what to make of Charles Widmore and his role in everything.  A part of me concedes that it's possible Widmore was always one of the good guys - until I recall him barking out the order to cut off Juliet's hand in 1954. So I'm still clinging to the belief that Widmore is not one of the good guys.  It's all a matter of perspective - in contrast to Flocke / MIB / Smokey who Dogen referred to as "Evil Incarnate",  even the most sinister villain can be made to look like the good guy.   I think Widmore seriously misses having Abbadon as his recruiter. I thought the freighter team with Keamy's crew seems much more formidable than "doughboy", "Tina Fey" and the rest of Widmore's current lineup. We know that ace in the hole (or Scot in the well) is Desmond and we learned that Sayid did not kill him (or help him out of the well).  Sayid's parting instructions to Jack stressed Desmond's importance - if Flocke wants him dead, he must consider Desmond a threat. 

Point 5

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "I'm with him" -- Jack referring to his partnership with Flocke in the rescue effort
  • Second Best Line: "Not anymore Doughboy" -- Sawyer after wresting a rifle from one of Widmore's minions
  • Third Best Line: "There is no Sayid" -- Jack after Sayid got blown up on the sub. 
  • Some things never change - Locke blows up another sub.
  • Did Locke's flight training in the Alt timeline adequately prepare Flocke to fly a commercial jet? 
  • Although Hurley and Sawyer are still "candidates", Sayid tells Jack "It's gonna be you". 
  • Only 3 episodes to go (4 hours)!!!

That's all I have.

Next Episode:

"Across the Sea" -- Prepare for an epic brain dump. Airs Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

DRH is first. Can you believe it!?!

#1. Posted by: davidrh at May 5, 2010 5:43 AM

woot! second!

#2. Posted by: Jin + Tonic at May 5, 2010 6:19 AM

I'm second!! awesome epsiode!! where's mac at?? wtf??

#3. Posted by: jenny tailia at May 5, 2010 6:20 AM

k 3rd [EDIT] stains

#4. Posted by: jenny tailia at May 5, 2010 6:21 AM

Thanks, Vacc, for stepping in. Doc Jensen’s latest column pointed out that the producers FINALLY last night ended any speculation that John SmokieLockie (or whatever he is called) might be a good guy in some weird sense of the word - He is definitely TOTALLY EVIL, his group-bomb-spatter plot proving the point.

Point of order: “group-bomb-splatter-plot” has no connection with the series ending MUD HOLE GROUP WAGGLE planned later this summer . . .

Several other reviewers last night are wondering if Frank really is gone, since we didn’t really see him actually get killed, just knocked down by a wall of water . . .uh, and a steel door. Won’t be the same without lovable Frank.

Of course, Sayid went out a hero and Jin and Sun went out as lovers should. Not much you can say about that. Hurley’s crying was pretty heart-wrenching. I’m a little worried about Kate being “expendable”. This seemed to be overplayed last night. (Well, at least she has the alternate world and some haircare product commercials to fall back on.)

Interesting query by “Brian” over on Lost and Gone forever. He note’s Sayid’s last dialogue:
SAYID: "There's a well on the main Island, half a mile south from the camp we just left. Desmond's inside. Locke wants him dead. Which means you're going to need him."
JACK: "Why are you telling me this?"
SAYID: "Because it's going to be you, Jack."

QUOTE - Did Sayid mean that Jack was going to be "The Candidate", destined to be the next Jacob? Or does this mean that he just knows that Jack is going to be the one to defeat SmokeLocke, and that Desmond is the key?-UNQUOTE

When this all ends, is the island actually going to be the “alternate world” that never really existed and life just picks up where it left off in Pleasantville, USA, for all the returning passengers on Flight 815?

#5. Posted by: davidrh at May 5, 2010 6:44 AM

Great review vacc!

I was totally getting the Poseidon Adventure vibe especially with Hurley playing Shelley Winters as he swam away with Kate. With everyone getting killed I half expected him to have a heart attack after dragging her up onto the beach.

Guess it doesn't matter which Kwon was the real candidate--unless it's Ji Yeon...
And now Sayid pulls an Artz...
When are Ben and Richard going to show up again?

#6. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 5, 2010 6:47 AM

Thanks for the great review...Vacc...? Where's Mac...?

Anyhoo...I was extremely upset after last night's episode. I cried so hard, I was sobbing out loud. Not even sure I can discuss the whole Jin and Sun death scene yet, but here goes... So, if I am to understand it right, they were spelling out the "candidate" role a little more last night. Sayid telling Jack, "...he was the one..." and we can assume he meant that Jack is the Candidate, but we don't know for sure. Sawyer breaking the news to Kate that her name was crossed out in the cave, so she's not that important and expendable. With Jin and Sun's tragic death, we now don't have to wonder which "Kwon" was a candidate...but it doesn't really matter now. So, is that where we are headed to the Finale...each candidate being picked off until only one is left...?

I also assumed Lapidus is done, although not certain of his whole role in all of this. It seems as if he was brought all this way, only to be wiped out!

I know that Anthony Cooper was seriously injured in the plane crash at the hands of his loving son, John. (Also big twist in the alt-world...all teary eyed Locke told Jack in what high esteem he held his dad...) Anyways...Locke's dad was so old compared to the dad that con'd Locke and pushed him out of the window. Wonder what was up with that...? Why so old...?

#7. Posted by: Boodle at May 5, 2010 6:48 AM

What, only one comment??? (As of 6:52 EST) - did I come to the finish in the money????

#8. Posted by: glostover at May 5, 2010 6:53 AM

And the answer is NO

#9. Posted by: glostover at May 5, 2010 6:53 AM

WHERE’S MAC?

On April 20, Mac issued a blog release that he was unavailable for last night’s episode and asked for volunteers to fill in. Vacc graciously offered his services.

WARNING: If anybody else asks this question . . . . Lucy, der’s gonna be sum screamin’ to do . . . .

#10. Posted by: davidrh at May 5, 2010 6:54 AM

Could the C4 explosives been put on the plane by Richard and Ben...? That was my first thought...not Widmore...

#11. Posted by: Boodle at May 5, 2010 6:55 AM

A couple of weeks ago I posted my top 10 questions that I still had (along with overusing the word "insightful", which is exactly what I tell my 5th grade students not to do in their writing). It looks as though I had a couple of them answered.

1. Can Flocke's "spell" on people be broken...It looks like yes. Sayid proved that he did still have a soul, and he got the redemption that he's been seeking by saving his friends. That was a touching scene.

2. This one is minor...We saw our old friend Bernard again. I didn't see any glimpse of recognition between Jack and Bernard, but it's interesting how they're all figuring out that they were on the same flight.

I think I cried an inappropriate amount at the Sun and Jin scene. It was a very poignant and sad moment for two of the original crew.

What I still don't understand is how this is going to play out in the Alt-Verse. If you died on the island, does that even matter? I know people on this blog have come up with some great theories about what the Alt-Verse is, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around it.

I woke up this morning thinking about Lost,,,is that normal???? :)

#12. Posted by: JG at May 5, 2010 7:07 AM

Great review Vacc...maybe you should change your name to The Substitute...

Anyway, lot's going on in this epi. One thing that seems clear is that Flocke is one step ahead of everybody because he KNOWS what's going to happen if not, then why take the watch off "dead guy guarding plane" BEFORE going into the plane and finding the C4...

I'm not sure who Flocke was refferring at the end though...does he know the sub blew up but not everybody is dead or was he talking about Desmond or Widmore when he told Claire "I'm going to finish what I started" or something along those lines.

So, Adam and Eve aren't Sun and Jin...maybe Jack and Kate then (still wondering why her name was crossed out in the cave if she's not dead)...sad to see them go but I get the feeling we better get used to it, i'm not sure alot of people are going to be left standing at the end. Seeing everybody cry at the end seems to confirm that the "lefties" (losties that are left) are FINALLY starting to realise that they're not in Kansas anymore!

Anyway, lots going on in my brain but I have to go to work. Can't wit to read your posts

#13. Posted by: Prosecutor67 at May 5, 2010 7:17 AM

Awesome epi, and great review. So much to comment on, but for some reason, I'm stuck on the mirror moment with Jack and Claire amd the music box (with her favorite tune playing). What was that supposed to tell us?

It's going to be tough to watch these characters die off!

#14. Posted by: giggity at May 5, 2010 7:21 AM

Did anyone else notice that Widmore said he had four names: Ford, Reyes and the Kwons. No mention of Jack (Maybe b/c he wasn't there at the time?). Initially it seemed like both Kwons were on the list and Jack had been crossed off, but I wonder if he just lumped them together b/c he didn't know which one it was.

WHO gave him the new and updated list??? Jacob was dead and Ilana had six names.

I bawled at Sun and Jin dying. Literally sobbed. Not a thought about Sayid. He had lost any emotional connection by this time. Completely forgot about Lapidus until hubby pointed it out. Feels like he was there simply to deliver zippy one liners.

Poor Claire.

Des must be getting pretty hungry by now.

Okay, now my big pet peeve. If they were five minutes from surfacing via sub, then wouldn't the pressure have killed them when they exited? I mean, they were DEEP. How did Sawyer buddy breath being unconscious and all? End of rant. Oh and where was the captain during all of this?


#15. Posted by: OtherKate at May 5, 2010 7:31 AM

I have to just say something about the C4 bomb. I'm pretty sure that Richard, Widmore, and/or Ben were not the responsible parties for planting that bomb on the plane.
Remember when FLOCKE showed up at the plane and killed the two watchmen? He stole one of their watches after they were killed. It was the same watch we saw in the bomb. So, not only is FLOCKE a very bad man, but he's also very manipulative, and planted the bomb that he was seemingly so offended to find on the plane.

#16. Posted by: Andrea at May 5, 2010 7:46 AM

Great job Vacc!

Where, oh where, are Richard, Ben and Miles?!

I am sooo glad Sayid redeemed himself!

Great episode. I can't wait to see how this all ends!!

#17. Posted by: lost2theworld at May 5, 2010 7:54 AM

ANFGW?

Any one notice Flocke got wet? Guess all that speculation was for naught.

#18. Posted by: lost2thworld at May 5, 2010 8:00 AM

How about that! You can’t intimidate him. You can’t shoot him. You can’t stab him. Is there any recourse? Of course…just push him into the water! lol

#19. Posted by: MySoulmateDigsLost at May 5, 2010 8:08 AM

MIF!
GRAA - vacc! Thanks for steeping in.
@ 13, I love the substitute reference.

A lot happened this epi, way too much to discuss. Steel doors blowing off hinges tend to leave a rather large mark. I really liked Frank, but I think he is a goner.

How did the Professor get to Hydra Island, from Gilligan's Island, to build the bamboo stairs leading up to the Ajira plane?

Does Widmore's sub have torpedo tubes? They could have launched the backpack out one of the tubes. At the very least they could have put the backpack in a separate compartment then sealed it. They had almost four minutes left to try do something, until Sawyer pulled the wires. I was also amazed at how quickly the sub left the dock. I guess the were powered up and ready to go. Yeah batteries.

#20. Posted by: onelostdude at May 5, 2010 8:09 AM

So...not ONCE did Sun even try to use JiYeon as a reason for Jin to save himself. Really? Seriously? What parent do yo uknow who would willingly strand their small child and choose death over him/her? Did Jin not EVER think of saving himself for the sake of their daughter?

This seemed unrealistic to me and a character flaw of sorts. Especialy since Jin and Sun had just been seen talking about their daughter and her photos. I just can't believe that at a moment of such tragedy, neither of the two would think of JiYeon. Seemed stupid and illogical. Especially for these two.

#21. Posted by: GatorGal at May 5, 2010 8:10 AM

So, is Sayid going to start whispering on the island with Michael and talking to Hurley? How about Jin, Sun and Lapidus? Not to sure if they are whispering material as they never went to the dark side.

#22. Posted by: opserc at May 5, 2010 8:10 AM

Nice job Vacc. Short comment (I'm almost at work), but I was reminded of the Looking Glass, when Sayid told Jack he would gladly go on a suicide mission if it meant saving everyone else.

I think Flocke knows not everyone died on the sub because he's still trapped on the Island, which means at least one Candidate is still alive. Shame on anyone who thought MIB was the good guy. He told us he would kill Jacob and all his replacements weeks ago!

#23. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 5, 2010 8:14 AM

I laughed out loud on the train when I read locke told jack " don't tell me what I CAN do" hilarious vacc

#24. Posted by: nes at May 5, 2010 8:18 AM

Good observation FenwayBen~~ I was wondering how he knew someone got off the sub! Of course!

#25. Posted by: LostLisa at May 5, 2010 8:20 AM

Thanks vacc, you're a fine "Substitute". I'm sure Mac will be joining us once he's free.

Andrea, good catch with the stolen watch! I'll be watching this one a second time for all the details. The writers are throwing all sorts of bits and pieces in there for the faithful viewers, too.

So much sadness last night. Hurley cried for us all. At this point, I'd much rather all the Losties end up in the alt timeline - even though Sayid and Charlie seem screwed in either.

And I just have to do this (sorry drh):

Anyone notice Jin bringing flowers to Sun while in the hospital? Why do some characters get direct contact and others just miss each other?

#26. Posted by: jaybee at May 5, 2010 8:25 AM

It would seem to me that Charles Widmore may be in cohoots with MIB. Otherwise, how else would he know about the remaining cantidates. Further, if he really cared about MIB leaving, why pull back the pylons from the plane? It seems the sub was not as well defended as could be, almost like they wanted the Lost team to get on-board with minimal effort. Interesting to note that only Kate (non-cantidate) was shot in the ensuing gun battle.

One other observation, the music playing on the music box was the same song that Kate sung to Aaron.

#27. Posted by: theoldred29 at May 5, 2010 8:27 AM

SIHF (shikotee is hopefully First) !!!!!!

Actually - nowhere near. :(

Didn't realize that the great Macness was indisposed, so I was lurking into the wee hours, wondering why he was off his steady game.

Anyhoots - I typed this up while waiting - so will post it now, read the review and comments, and see how things stand up.

I liked the episode, but did find some bones to pick.

My first impression was that I found it weird that Jack would be so obsessed with Locke, considering he just found out he has a sister. I mean - really? He'd choose paying a visit to Bernard over finding out more about Claire? Sure - he does meet Claire later, but this is only because she tracks him down at the hospital, via info given to her from the lawyer. What is up with the box that Claire inherited? Was its only purpose to play "Catch a falling Star"?

Ah - back in the cages! So - why wouldn't Kate just climb upwards and once again slip through the bars? Has she put on weight?

Best line - "I'm with him" - Jack referring to smokey - lol!

I found the whole Anthony Cooper/Locke side-plot really boring. Sure - I wanted to find out how Locke was injured - it just seemed like such a waste of time chasing this trail.

Flocke approaching the Arija plane guards was awesome! So - how did he know that the plane was rigged with explosives? Why else would he take the watch off the dead guard prior to boarding the plane? Smokey seems to have powerful intuition.

Where is Ben, Miles, and Ricardus? Did Juliette's magic bullet kill all 3 before they reached Hydra island?

And see - Flocke did not melt when he was pushed into the water! And he sure likes the long con! Where o where did he learn how to rig explosives with a watch? Did McGyver die somewhere on the island, and smokey snagged his memories?

No first aid kit on a sub? Really? Then Sawyer calls Frank on the phone, and you can see a First Aid Kit to the left of Frank's head. Shoulda looked harder....

So - Jack seems to have figured out the rules. Flocke can't directly kill any potential Candidates, but can help roll the dice to instigate it. Too bad Sawyer would not listen.

Sayid seemed pretty convinced that Jack would be the final Candidate, before going KABOOM. Not impressed with how they did this. There is less than a minute left on the speed timer, Sayid gives his final words regarding Desmond, then runs and blows up. How far could he really go? The explosion would not only reach the rest of them, but the sound alone would make them all deaf! Sigh!

Alas - poor Frank.... taken out by a sub door. At least he managed to utter a one liner of "Oh Hell" before being taken out.

Hurley taking Kate off the sub? Is this the same Hugo who was flipping out because he couldn't swim when the O6 returned to the island?

Sun and Jin - Shortest reunion ever. Good for Jin to stay true to his doomsdayish promise of never leaving Sun again. It was sad to see them go - I just wish they would have come up with something better than drowning. I say this only because I thought the Charlie drowning scene was so well done, and this seemed like a knock-off of sorts. I found the underwater footage annoying, as it was difficult to make out what they were showing - way too dark and blurry.

So - Locke crashed his plane, and thus Cooper was lobotomized. Doesn't leave much for the James Ford revenge plan. Have to wonder - what went wrong with the flight? Locke doesn't even know. Could some other force be involved? Jack quoting Locke "I wish you'd believed me" was pretty cool.

Ummmm - Upon making it to the beach, Kate seemed pretty OK for someone who was just shot, and almost drowned. Grief is grief - but c'mon!

So.... Flocke can somehow sense that the sub sunk, and that there are survivors. But he can't sense that Desmond is still alive? Hmmmmmm....

Anyways - as critical as I am - I still liked this episode.

As has been noted by davidrh, I should have waited an hour or so before submitting my Adam and Eve guesses. The again - who knows.... maybe there will be a huge storm that floods the island, and the bodies of Sun and Jin will washout of the sub, and.....

Sigh!

My third choice of Sayid and Claire is a no go. So - Rose and Bernard? Kate and Sawyer (or Kate and Jack)?

#28. Posted by: shikotee at May 5, 2010 8:38 AM

Looks like Flocke's "long con" paid off, even if a few escaped. Here's a thought - What if Claire is the "Shepherd" and not Jack? Technically she's got the same father, even if she didn't know and thus didn't take his last name officially? So if FLocke can just "feel" which candidates where/are still alive, what's with all of the questions from him about which Kwon was a candidate? Or is it that he can just feel the number of candidates still alive? Why did Jack seem to regress into his "fixer" mode in the Alt Timeline? With the next episode being named "Across the Sea" will we see Ji-Yeon and Waaaaaalt? I missed the first 18 mins of the ep. Will need to watch on abc.com. !($:$?@+ dvrs... I want more answers! I think it's sad we lost some characters but they'll likely just be shown more in the Alt Tiimeline. I agree about the Gilligans Island rpoe bridge to the plane. So Kate is shot but doesn't bleed out in the water? Sawyer is unconscious but doesn't drown? Where were Ben and Richard? Claire must have some serious abandonment issues at this point. Four hours left. So much to resolve, so little time....

#29. Posted by: Lostedit at May 5, 2010 8:38 AM

@26 Posted by jaybee

...but Locke looked at him as if he recognized him...

Again...the sobbing at my house last night was intensive. I cried before, during and after Jin and Sun's death and then when I thought I was okay...cried some more when Hurley, Kate and Jack mourned. My husband woke up from dozing off and asked me what happened to the sub and I told him it sunk still sobbing. He asked me why I was crying...I couldn't even answer. So upset!! When Jin passed Locke in the hospital hallway, I was rooting for Alt-universe!!! Way to go for the writers to show us Jin, all happy with Sun and the baby being okay, bringing her flowers...if he only knew... That is the Jin/Sun story I want to leave with after the Finale...

I couldn't make out the tune in the music box. If Dad left that for Claire...what is the significance of the box. Jack doesn't recognize it, but it was important for Claire to receive it...

#30. Posted by: Boodle at May 5, 2010 8:41 AM

Wow what a ride last night was. Had a feeling Sayid's time was going to be coming to an end really soon, just not this soon. His redemption made it a little easier to take, but he will be missed. I am glad Sun and Jin went out together, but I agree, as a parent, I would have done everything possible to have my wife save herself for the kids sake.

Jack is the "one" because he is the only one that has the faith. He knows Flocke can't kill any of them. Flocke couldn't even kill Desmond. If the candidates don't kill each other, then old Flocke will have to put up with staying for a very long time. I think these next three weeks are going to bring a lot of tears, but I also have faith in the show, and that we are going have closure.

Thanks to MAC and everyone else who has made this blog such a big part of my week.

#31. Posted by: LostnKansas at May 5, 2010 9:01 AM

I know that "Littleton" was crossed out, but isn't Claire's paternal name still "Sheapard".

@28 Shikotee - "I found it weird that Jack would be so obsessed with Locke, considering he just found out he has a sister."

Claire represents his father's betrayal of his mother. Jack has never been one to face his daddy issues... they just got multiplied.

#32. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 9:03 AM

Quick question...when Flocke and Claire were standing on the dock at the end of the episode, did Flocke say "It sunk," meaning the sub, or "It's Sun," possibly confirming that she was the Kwon candidate and he was able to tell that now maybe because she had died? I heard "It's Sun" but I think the proceeding dialogue was about the sub, so it was probably the former.

Oh well, good (though melancholy) episode. I guess Lapidus was only kept around this long to keep the Ajira Plane escape scenario in play. If I had to guess, his fellow, snarky buddy Miles will be joining him soon. Speaking of which, how long does it take to hike to the barracks, pack up some explosives and get to Hydra Island...especially since they were in a big hurry to blow up the plane?

#33. Posted by: Artz Vandelay at May 5, 2010 9:09 AM

i havent read all the post but i just wanted to convey how bummed, no make that heartbroken that my fav and might i add sexiest, lostie exploded into a thousand pieces. i knew it was coming but dam!!! did it have to be last night. :)

okay, now i can read all the post just had to get that off my chest.

namaste

#34. Posted by: tiffani at May 5, 2010 9:11 AM

Amazing episode last night --- I knew something bad was coming! Oy!

Thanks for the "substitute" recap, too!

Initially I thought Sideways World was BAD and that the Losties needed to "get out of it" and concentrate on their Island selves.

Now that some of my favorite characters have died, I'm really hoping Sideways World is GOOD and that they all end up there ... alive.

I'm worried that Sideways Locke = MIB/Smokie. They're dropping those sort of clues, aren't they?

There also seems to be a knowing with Bernard last night. I got the feeling that he knew more than he was telling Jack and that he was trying to encourage Jack to figure it all out. Could be wrong here.

I'm wondering about Ben + Richard + Miles ... I hear we won't see series regulars in next week's episode, so I'm hoping they show the status of that splinter group soon!!

#35. Posted by: DC-Matt at May 5, 2010 9:12 AM

Fenway # 23

I think Flocke thinks their all dead on the sub but just realized Sayid did not kill Desmand. That is why he is still trapped on the island

#36. Posted by: btly at May 5, 2010 9:19 AM

Nice job, Vacc. Very nice couple of spiffy one-liners in there.

Good to see Ol’ Bernard again. Looked like he hasn’t missed too many meals. So lemme get this straight…Bernard is Locke’s dentist, and Rose is Locke’s temp job finder? And Locke doesn’t recognize her last name (Nadler, isn’t it? Yeah, that’s common…) and say, “Hey, my dentist has that same name…small world, idn’t it?”

My first thought re. the bomb on the sub was that they should just toss it into a torpedo tube like in all those WWII movies when they stuffed mattresses and dead bodies into the tube and shot them out into the water to convince the enemy that they sunk. But then I thought that maybe Widmore-class submarines don’t require torpedos…torpedos taking up so much valuable pylon- and Scot-storing space. So then I thought why not toss it into the smallest room (cabin?) and seal the hatch?

Guess Sawyer’s gunna really hafta start trusting Jack now that Jack saved his life. For a conman, Sawyer sure gets taken a lot. First by Widmore, then by Flocke. Plus, he’s a pretty lousy cop. Been looking for Anthony Cooper for years, can’t find him. Jack gets a name on a piece of paper and shows up fourteen minutes later?

Sun and Jin…really thought those crazy kids would make it. Like Keamy said, “Maybe some people just aren’t meant to be together.”

Seems like the writers kept the whole “game” thing going. I kept waiting for FLocke to say, “G2.” And then Claire to say, “You sank my submarine!”

Couldn’t a whole lot of deaths been avoided if Widmore had just told them, “He’s going to have all of us kill each other so he can wreak evil upon the world.” Then Jack & Co. would have been all like, “Ohhhh…so that’s what’s what. Okay, gotcha. No more Follow The FLocke-Leader like the bunch of non-questioning lemmings that we are.”

Enjoyed the ep.

#37. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 5, 2010 9:23 AM

The "Alt" world rememberances really make me think about about the
knowledge that Eloise Hawking has of events to transpire.
Major events take place with only minor details changed "Whatever happenned,
happened" at least until Desmond got shot.


I still say the "Alt world" is the true timeline. Or could be a Red Harring, or Dharma Shark...

#38. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 9:32 AM

Hey, where's Mac?

(Couldn't resist that one -- short answer: I'm at a conference).

Of much more importance, let me let out a hearty GRAA for Vacc! Thanks *so* much for stepping in.

#39. Posted by: mac at May 5, 2010 9:38 AM

I was holding onto the hope that when Flocke got wet that he'd straight-up multiply like a mogwai! Claire better not feed him a squirrel-baby leg after midnight!

#40. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 5, 2010 9:45 AM

@21/ GatorGal

I absolutely agree.
There is a total lack of parental instincts, common sense and value of human life as the series winds down.

#41. Posted by: welh at May 5, 2010 9:57 AM

GREAT Review Vacc! Thanks for filling in for Mac, we all appreciate it!

#42. Posted by: rainlover57 at May 5, 2010 10:18 AM

Seems to me that since Flocke can see into the future that he must know everything that has/will transpire, at least in some respects. He performed a "long con" on Locke to get his body and get Jacob killed, now he's done the same to the Losties. He knew he needed to take the watch and the bomb and turn it into something the Losties would use to implement their own demise. He's *got* to know where things are going from here. The key, then, is for the Losties to do something beyond his ability to see. Or, perhaps, things will end as I had hypothesized at one point in the past where he really *does* get them all killed off, leaves the island, only to find out that in doing so everything really does "cease to exist" as Widmore stated and, because all of the Losties' lives have been transferred to the Alt-World, they and everyone around them live on while Flocke gets to live for all eternity in a universe that has ceased to exist because he couldn't see the Alt-World in time to find a way to get transferred to it as well.

Eloise definitely seems like she could show up again as some kind of dark horse in all of this, a key to everything, or at least with knowledge of everything in both timelines, who will influence, or has influenced, things to make this final battle against FLocke successful.

Ji-Yeon and Waaaalt next week, that's my bet. With some Bernard and Rose to boot. Subject to change at the flip of a coin, of course. ;)

#43. Posted by: LostedIt at May 5, 2010 10:25 AM

Flocke being pushed in the water didn't kill him, but he also didn't turn into the smoke monster to kill the shooters. I think water has an affect on the smoke monster.

#44. Posted by: Skulley at May 5, 2010 10:28 AM

I said this before, and I still say Desmond lies in the shadow of the statue!!! He is outside the rules, he is the key, the one Flocke can't read. He is not "afraid" so he does not act predictably.

Desmond is the key.

#45. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 10:31 AM

Great job Vacc!

Ji Yeon wasn’t mentioned between Sun and Jin in their final minutes together because there was no need. They both knew. I don’t consider Jin refusing to leave his trapped wife any worse than Sun leaving her child to return to the island and the possibility that neither she nor Jin would return. It makes me wonder if Kate will survive along with Jack and somehow they will bring both Ji Yeon and Aaron to the island to raise them. OR Hurley will raise Ji Yeon.

“Since Widmore has already loaded the plane with C4 explosive wired to blow if they try to leave, Flocke turns to the secondary protocol - hijacking the submarine.” ___I don’t know that Widmore wired that plane to explode. Possibility Ben, Richard & Miles did it and then were captured by Widmore’s people. But I think Flocke put the explosives in the plane as a failsafe, in case the 6 reached the plane without him.

Kate’s name crossed off the wall… to make Sawyer and all think she is unprotected by her candidate status so Flocke can use the threat of killing her as a manipulation device. Which is exactly what he did…Sawyer put the rifle down.

Claire asked Flocke, “They’re all dead?” Flocke said, “Not all of them.” Or something to that effect. Did he say some of the 6 on the sub survived, or was he implying that there are others who also have to die? Flocke said, “I’m going to finish what I started.” And off he immediately went to do his work. Does that support the idea that he thinks all on the sub are lost and he’s off now to finish up with Ben, Alpert, Miles and Widmore?

FenwayBen suggests Flocke knows someone is alive because he (Flocke) is still on island. I dunno; maybe. Odd if the moment all candidates are dead, poof….Flocke is released from the island…then again, why not?

Widmore moved the sonic fence to the cages, so it seems he was sincerely attempting to protect the candidates therein.

Sayid: I knew he would come through. I cried.

Sawyer: Can’t say that I blame him for not trusting Jack’s assertion that the bomb would not go off.

Flocke will kill Claire the moment he doesn’t need her.

My inclination is that Widmore is not a good guy, that he is in it for profit and power. I’m thinking he knows he can’t exploit the island if Smokey is still moving about so Widmore’s plan is to put the genie back in the bottle. For that he needs Desmond.

In the time it has taken me to write this, I am certain there were 100 more comments posted so I am going back in.

#46. Posted by: undauntid at May 5, 2010 10:33 AM

Did we actually SEE Flocke pull the C-4 out of the plane?
My recollection is:
(1) He shoots the Ajira plane guards.
(2) He pulls the watch off of one of them.
(3) He enters the plane; finds the wire.
(4) Opens a luggage compartment; looks inside (our view is of him looking in and rummaging about). We never get the outside-looking-in shot that reveals the C-4.
(5) He comes outside and pulls the C-4 from his bag.

Ostensibly, it came from the plane, but that was not explicitly revealed. I think it's at least possible he brought it with him, and THAT'S why he knew he would need a watch BEFORE he went into the plane.

Thoughts?

#47. Posted by: Callan at May 5, 2010 10:34 AM

Thanks Vacc for the review. This remains the first place I visit after watching a downloaded episode.

A couple of picky-points...Interesting that no one has pointed out that Jin and Sun chose to speak to each other in English, as Sun did when she found Jin on the beach last week. Why would you do that when you're both Korean? Also, how did Sawyer not die when being brought to the surface, why hasn't everyone who did get off the sub got the benz (SP?) from surfacing too quickly and how hasn't Kate bled to death?

Sorry about Sayid and Jin and Sun being killed off, but it was never going to be a happy ending, was it? I fear Lapidus is also dead - and, as someone else pointed out, I feel he was only left in the show so that the 'leave on the plane' story could be continued.

So, we've got 4 episodes left and a whole host of questions still to be answered. I can't wait.

A final word for Mac (in case I don't post again). You have no idea how grateful I am (and no doubt lots of others are) for the work you put in after each episode. It has made sense of areas of confusion so many times and it is always a fabulously enjoyable read. My heart-felt thanks to you.

#48. Posted by: English Addict at May 5, 2010 10:34 AM

@28 - Shikotee
"Hurley taking Kate off the sub? Is this the same Hugo who was flipping out because he couldn't swim when the O6 returned to the island?"

I think that Hurley was having difficulty after being awakened under water. Remember he did the Cannonball into the ocean before. he can swim, but was simply disoriented and confused. After all it was his first foooming!!!

#49. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 10:41 AM

Well, now we know why they didn't overdo the Sun-Jun reunion 2 weeks ago - they wanted to save all the emotion for their death scene.
It's nice that Jin wanted to stay with Sun, but you gotta think about your baby back home. Let it have at least ONE parent.

#50. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 5, 2010 10:41 AM

Anyone else catch the homage to "Billy Jack" with Flocke telling Jack that he can kill him and his friends "and there's not a thing you can do to stop me". That's almost exactly the same line Billy Jack used on that fat sheriff just before he laid him out with a barefooted roundhouse!

And that music box Claire showed Jack, did anyone else jump up and yell San Francisco Music Box Company ?! I'm sure I bought one of those for my girlfriend in the '90s. BTW, those boxes have one or more inserts that Jack and Claire neglected.

#51. Posted by: Jacob's Revenge at May 5, 2010 10:51 AM

Hurley's crying scene was great acting ... not so much for Jack
I wondered why MIB didn't let them get blown up in the plane and all killed as he ultimately wanted until I thought that MIB needs the plane to leave himself and not the sub.
@18: SMOKEY is the one who can't cross water. MIB needs to be Flocke to deal with water. Flocke was standing in water two shows ago and had no problem with it.
I think Eloise gave Widmore the list. She seems to know way more than anyone else.
Can "Adam" be MIB? He said he lost his body because of Jacob. Was he then the captain (Hanso?) of the Black Rock in the scene between him and Jacob on the beach? Is Eloise his crazy mother?

#52. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 5, 2010 10:54 AM

Flocke can't kill anyone directly so he could not have planted the C-4. I most likely was Widemore.

Hurley last night got to me the most with his crying. It almost scared me when he started. It certainly put the "!" on the end of the evening.

Jack looks like he's pissed now!

#53. Posted by: dk at May 5, 2010 10:56 AM

There was a GREAT show on the history channel last night about alt-universes and it really put things in perspective. You CAN be in more than one ALT at a time and be alive in one and dead in the other so Sun and Jin can have a happy ending in the Alt. Yay!

#54. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 5, 2010 10:59 AM

SIHF: Actually Jack being obsessed with Locke makes sense for his character. Jack was being denied an opportunity to "fix" some thing and didn't understand why. And I presumed he had an understanding he would see Claire at some point in the future anyway.

What was less explained is why Jin wouldn't leave Sun in order to be a parent for thier child. That was a more "dropped the ball" issue for me.

#55. Posted by: Brandon at May 5, 2010 11:02 AM

My favorite line was from Frank: "Aw, hell." right before the door hit him. I'm gonna miss him.
Just a couple of things that bug me. Are we seriously supposed to believe that Sun still had Jin's ring in her shirt pocket after all she's been through since crashing?
And who really remembers their flight numbers after their trips. I don't fly that much, but it seems rather far fetched.
@#37. Posted by: ransomjackson
Couldn’t a whole lot of deaths been avoided if Widmore had just told them, “He’s going to have all of us kill each other so he can wreak evil upon the world.” Then Jack & Co. would have been all like, “Ohhhh…so that’s what’s what. Okay, gotcha. No more Follow The FLocke-Leader like the bunch of non-questioning lemmings that we are.”

I totally agree. That was my first thought.

Still enjoyed everything, though and can't believe it is going to end soon.


#56. Posted by: Amyr at May 5, 2010 11:04 AM

Kate is now the only bargaining chip both Widmore and MIB can use to manipulate the candidates. She should jump off a cliff

#57. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 5, 2010 11:05 AM

Jack is really mad now, and by the way he looked to the heavens in a rage, he resents where he is. The loss of Jin, Sun, Sayid, and frank aside, Jack was helping everyone to leave the island once again. This time he wanted to be the only one left behind. Once everyone he felt responsible for was gone, he would only have to make decisions that affect him. Having Sawyer, Kate, and Hurley still with him is quite inconvenient. I know this sounds very cynical, but I think that Jack actually may understand the situation for the first time. They are all going die “again”, he just can’t face being responsible for it.
On another note, I am very sad to see my favorite characters ultimate demise, but this episode marked the first time I felt the series is actually turning the corner towards the end. Next week should be yet another huge revelation.

#58. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 11:10 AM

I laugh every time one of the characters in the Alt Uni says "Oceanic 815." Who remembers flight numbers, unless the plane crashes or some other tragedy strikes? It's like someone asking, "Where you on Delta 2236 last week?"

Ah, plot devices.

#59. Posted by: CDog at May 5, 2010 11:16 AM

#32. Revelation: “Claire represents his father's betrayal of his mother. Jack has never been one to face his daddy issues... they just got multiplied.” ___ I don’t think so. Jack was working, trying to help a patient. When he saw Claire he invited her to come stay at his home because, “we’re family.”

Revelation: “The "Alt" world rememberances really make me think about about the
knowledge that Eloise Hawking has of events to transpire.” ___Remember when Eloise said (when Desmond was shot on the dock ) that for the first time in a long time she didn’t know what was going to happen. It just occurred to me that her foreknowledge might be due to her reading Faraday’s journals. Faraday died, no more entries, ergo: No more foreknowledge …..or not!

#35. DC-Matt, “There also seems to be a knowing with Bernard last night.” __ Yep. I felt it too. Bernard seemed more….what? Maybe it was that he felt less Bernard like. There was a grace and wisdom about him. Typing that, it strikes me that he was more like Rose than Rose was.

If Widmore moved the sonic fence to the cages, does that mean 1.He doesn't realize Smokey can't kill them? 2. He knows Smokey/MIB won't/can't leave on the plane so there is no need to use the sonic fence to keep him away from it?

#60. Posted by: undauntid at May 5, 2010 11:19 AM

At the very end, when Claire asks Locke if the people on the sub died, and Locke says "not all of them." (or something to that effect)

I don't think he knows what happened on the sub, but knows that there is at least one surviving candidate alive, or else something significant would have happened.

#61. Posted by: Kevooon at May 5, 2010 11:20 AM

More and more, it seems that a majority of us are beginning to lean to the reality of the “Alternate World” as being the REAL world all of our losties exist in. Even tho many of them have these psychic “inklings”, in appears that it is only Desmond who really knows that the “lost island world” is indeed the true alternate universe of some consequence.

I know we were all doing the “what the heck is this storyline” at the beginning of Season Six - but I’m starting to see it as (except for Kate and Charlie, perhaps) the safest world to be in, but also the completion of the “uninterrupted” flight story started 6 seasons ago. It may turn out that all our participants actually end the series going about their lives, mundane for some, deliriously happy for some, and chaotic for others, but none realizing that somewhere in a “crack in time” they all had part in an unbelievable adventure that either SAVED the human race or unleashed a maelstrom of evil that will eventually destroy all good in the world.

Obviously, I hope they save the world. However it is also painfully obvious that in this great “battle” most of them may lose their lives.

On the other hand, it appears that losing one’s life ON the island has nothing to do with one’s mortality in the “Alternate World” - So I’m rooting for Team Island-Jack-&-Desmond to defeat Team Smokie-Lockie and Hurley living happily ever after with his new found love-of-his-life, Jin and Sun raising dozens of little Korean cuties, Jack having a good and prosperous life with his son David, Sawyer running off to Venezuela with Kate, Rose going into total remission and moving to Tahiti with Bernard, and . . . o why not! John and Helen marrying and having a contented life together in suburban LA.

Good night John-Boy.

Good night Erin.

Good night GrandDad.

Good night Mac.

#62. Posted by: davidrh at May 5, 2010 11:22 AM

Just a theory here -- the writers at this point have been pretty much underlining now that Jack is "The Candidate" but what if he's not... what if the Candidate is actually... Kate?

Think about this for a second. What's been going on this entire time is that candidates are brought to the Island and have essentially been killing one another off in thier petty power struggles. This has been going on a long time in a number of variations, and the Others against the 815ers, the 815ers against (briefly) the tailies and the OThers against Dharma... these were all just iterations of the same thing. And they happened becuase the Island was viewed as a powerful place, or a dangerous place, and for all the people claiming to follow Jacob few if ever actually did what he wanted -- which only Richard sort of understood, which was at the core of why he was unhappy with Ben and ready for Locke to be the new leader.

Until MIB had Ben kill Jacob, it was probably going to go on a lot longer.

Now, I think, that's that: there will be no more Candidates because there's no Jacob to go out and touch them. So what's there is what's there. Jacob probably knew this was coming.

Now as stated, the only for MIB to succeed is to have the candidates kill off one another. Eko, apparently, was not a candidate (probably an oversight on Jacob's part becuase he would have been a damn sight better than just about all the other Candidates ended up being). Although anyone else not killed by Smokey might have been a Candidate.

But so far the only way one no longer becomes a Candidate is if they are killed. It's been said that Kate's name WAS amongst the Candidates but was crossed off. But Kate's not dead.

Is it possible that Jacob crossed her name off just to throw off the MIB? That maybe he knew his list was compromised and so one of his last acts was to cross off a name of a perfectly active and still viable candidate so that the MIB would THINK she was expendable when she actually was not? That way the MIB could kill the other candidates, not focusing on Kate, leaving her as the one who actually takes over? By simply crossing a name off his wall, a name easily forgotten anyway since she's not the "hero" type, Jacob could have been subtly throwing off his opponent.

#63. Posted by: Brandon at May 5, 2010 11:26 AM

Didn't see the deaths coming.

OK, here is my take:
All will have to die for the MIB to escape.
Jack will be the last. MIB will give him a choice, bring back all his friends (alt. universe, one of free will) or have the power of the island.
Jack will have a leap of faith, and die.
Alt. universe comes true.
Locke has a leap of faith (and forgiveness) and walk down the asle.
Everyone finds love (Jack/Kate, Sayid/Shannon, Miles/Ana, etc.)and have memories of a vague other life.
Show ends with Jack's dad's body showing up. Fade to black.

Any takers?

#64. Posted by: Stock at May 5, 2010 11:30 AM

In the back of my mind, I keep seeing this elderly couple sitting in front of a shack in the jungle just off the beach.
There is a long since used rope collar hanging next the door, and some tea on the table before them.

#65. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 11:31 AM

@ onelostdude #20 I was most interested in the bamboo stairs leading to the plane as well. Of course, they could simply be there to allow the scene of Flocke discovering the C4, but the stairs were too obvious and other more spontaneous avenues of ingress would have worked.

I am also bothered by how Flocke got the battery to ignite the C4 since, on the plane, it was the starting of the plane that sent the juice to the bomb. I also think that a bomb going off in the plane was likely to be less deadly than in the sub as long as the plane was on the ground. Setting up the whole timing device, with its speeded up watch once the wires are pulled, by Flocke as he and his team race through the jungle is very far fetched. Flocke can do all sorts of clever, magical things, but on the spot circuit design does not seem to be one of them. I think he had it already rigged. (shikotee@38 raised this point as well)

We still have the airplane for possible escape and perhaps also a waterlogged pilot washing up coughing somewhere on the beach.

@ GatorGal #21 Agreed--JiYeon should have figured in Sun and Jin's final conversation.

@FenwayBen #23 Yes, it does also seem to imply that once all the Candidates are dead, MIB is free to flee without need of airplane, sub, canoe, raft, sailboat, or freighter and Flocke has a builtin Candidate Detector.

Doughboy reminded me a lot of young Widmore: hotheaded bully punk. Glad to see him nipped in the bud. And it now appears that previous speculation about MIB and Widmore being in some sort of cahoots is wrong unless the writers have done a superb job of misdirection.

@shikotee #28 After reading this I was tempted to trash this whole post because you hit all the high points. But I'm too vain to quit. I'm with you on Jack's obsession with Locke over his newly discovered sister Claire. In fact, it is so strange that it was probably intentional. Some form of leakage between universes? The struggle between Jack and Flocke may be playing out in some reverse (mirrors!) fashion in Altverse.

And speaking of leakages, was not Bernard looking awfully prescient when he was questioning Jack? I do not think this was just a chance to show Alt-Bernard but to again suggest some sort of spiritual connectivity between the Losties. (Also noted by DC-Matt @ #36)

@undauntid # 46 Agree with you that Flocke will kill Claire the moment he doesn't need her. But why did he stop Claire from killing Kate? MIB is keen on killing everybody and that may be what he meant by "not all of them." because that is what MIB does. But MIB can't kill a candidate. Perhaps once touched by Jacob, the candidates have "protection." But if they have "protection" what are the so-called "Rules?" I have been left with the impression that the Rules can be broken, because Jungle Boy reminds MIB about the rules. Maybe if a Rule is broken, something really bad happens. Maybe MIB is no more and he would rather be quasi-live than nothing at all.

I am posting this following #48, but bet there are a lot more when it comes up.

One last thought. It might have been interesting to reverse all the images in altverse when editing the final cut. Since everything is digital anyhow, it could not have been too difficult except they would have to have all signs reversed which would have made it not worth the effort. But everyone would have looked a little different though still familiar.

#66. Posted by: August Paul at May 5, 2010 11:40 AM

I loved it when Jack told Flocke that the reason he was staying on the island is because John Locke told him he needed to. Like….Ha, smokey, that’s what we call irony.

#53. dk: “Flocke can't kill anyone directly so he could not have planted the C-4. I most likely was Widemore.” ___ Yes. I hadn’t thought of that.

#67. Posted by: undauntid at May 5, 2010 11:46 AM

So is Flocke actually Anthony Cooper or has at least taken his form at times? They are both con men.

#68. Posted by: Sulphent at May 5, 2010 11:52 AM

Could it be that when we saw Jin's hand let go of Sun's, he was on his way out of the sub instead of dead? He only left Sun after she was clearly dead. Jin may still be alive and out to seak revenge.

Just a thought.

#69. Posted by: Glen at May 5, 2010 12:00 PM

why did flockers take the watch before he even knew there was a bomb on the plane? Did he think it was a nice watch and then when he found the C4 thought it would make a great bomber timer?
It is a shame that with 5 hours left we have a full wasted hour, no answers to anything, just more setup for some epic battle. The way Sayid went was well lame, but did he really go? he was never there in the first place. Jinsun was odd. I kept on waiting for one of them to mention their daughter, but nope. Little girl has no hope. I really wonder though id Sun was really Sun or was she a zombie from when she smacked her head and Locke found her. Who knows.

#70. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at May 5, 2010 12:05 PM

shikotee #28: I have nothing to add. You covered all of the bases. However, part of me strongly objects to you using logic. Denial IS a river in Egypt!

#71. Posted by: Montag the Cat at May 5, 2010 12:05 PM

Wait a minute here. If MIB can't kill the candidates and needs them to kill each other, then how does he get rid of the last candidate? Sounds initially like a lose-lose situation for him. But there are a lot of other non-candidates floating about. Widmore comes to mind. If he lets Widmore kill the last candidate then MIB is free to go and Widmore has his island all to himself. And by himself. Like Arvin Sloane at the end of "Alias"

#72. Posted by: August Paul at May 5, 2010 12:06 PM

Here's a though - Flocke either planted the C-4 or found it, but since Jack said he wouldn't be on the plane Flocke couldn't kill them all there because Jack would still be on the island. Therefore, we turn to the "get off the island via sub" plan. Once again, Jack says he won't go, but Flocke puts the C-4 in Jack's backpack then shoots Kate, knowing that is the only way to get Jack on the sub. In this line of thinking, maybe Kate doesn't die because she is actually a candidate, and Flocke shot her, and he can't kill a candidate.

#73. Posted by: Melieb at May 5, 2010 12:06 PM

another two silly observations that leaves me wondering WHAT? - Why does Sawyer attempt "disarm" the "bomb" when Sayid is standing a couplpe of feet away. Besides C4 is very stable, and once the detonator is removed... Just pull it out and your done.

#74. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 12:06 PM

@ CDog #59 et al on remembering your flight number. That's just the point. You don't remember your flight number unless, unless, your were on..... OCEANIC FLIGHT 815. Well, actually I agree with you.

@davidrh #62 I'm bereft. You left out Juliet and her dutch treat date. That aside, you propose about as satisfied an ending as is possible at this point. We seem to pretty consistently have witnessed throughout this tale the notion that with redemption comes death (reminding me a bit of Koko's observation in the Mikado, "Matrimonial devotion doesn't seem to suit her notion. Burial it brings.") We will also end up with some resolution on the island, a reborn Jacob and mean old MIB playing the same game. Didn't we see the hint of it for next week's episode.

Speaking of which, it suggested to me the notion that we will see the island resolution next week with Jacob Redux and MIB playing backgammon with all the pieces representing people in altverse acting out their part for the final episodes.

#75. Posted by: August Paul at May 5, 2010 12:12 PM

@75 - @62

I hope Kate is not the one. I know I am going to take a raft of crud about this, but while I have reflected heavily on Kate, and find she does have some fine charateristics and I do like her character more than I have in the past. Once again she is the distraction, the leverage used against her friends. This is one situation where Sawyer should have called Widmore's hand and shot the hostage. Kate, as usual, was all that was standing in the way.

#76. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 12:23 PM

@29 Lostedit-maybe the reason kate and sawyer didnt drown is becasue the island isnt done with them yet and there is still work to do.

my question is, if jack was so convinced they wouldnt die if the bomb went off than why not take it and run off with it, like sayid did, and just let the time expire to prove his point??

than sayid would still be alive and i wouldnt have been so heartbroken.

namaste!!

#77. Posted by: tiffani at May 5, 2010 12:28 PM

All this talk about Flocke planting the C4 on the plane is silly. They obviously showed him poking around on the plane, discovering the wires, following them to the overhead baggage compartment (where your contents may have shifted during flight) and then pulling out the C4. If he had planted it, he would have just produced it from his bag.

I also agree that Flock's ability to rig up the watch with some wires as a timer for the bomb was hokey, especially given the brief amount of time he had to do it. Of course, perhaps his special abilities simply allow him to "will it" into being, but it that were the case, there are dozens of other things he would have willed by now.

Maybe I've seen too many movies, but it seems that 4 bricks of C4 would have caused an explosion *much more* massive than what we saw on the sub.

But, it was nice to seem them sweeten-up Sayid before he was "blowed up real good" saving some of the others. (John 15:13 - Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.)

#78. Posted by: NotLost at May 5, 2010 12:33 PM

You know what I want to know. How in the hell was Dharma still dropping food to the Losties in 2004ish time when they were purged way back when?

#79. Posted by: Schiano at May 5, 2010 12:36 PM

#73. Posted by: Melieb
My thoughts exactly. I also thought MIB shot Kate to get Jack in the sub

#69. Posted by: Glen
They only really showed Sun in the parting shot and just Jin's hand letting go. Jin may well have survived but it's a long way up to the surface for Jin and/or Lapidus

#80. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 5, 2010 12:40 PM

@ #62

I love your theory - to me it would be the most satisfying ending to all this. I seriously can't see where this could go from here - the white and dark pebble game - the two men - Richard - Ben, Boone and Shannon, Bernard and Rose...all of it. Who is Widmore - what does he want - where's Penny and finally Desmond.

Bernard seemed to say some interesting stuff last night - like he knew that something was up with all these flight-mates - anyone else get that feeling?

Tima

#81. Posted by: TS at May 5, 2010 12:43 PM

@Brandon #63: "Is it possible that Jacob crossed her name off just to throw off the MIB? That maybe he knew his list was compromised and so one of his last acts was to cross off a name of a perfectly active and still viable candidate so that the MIB would THINK she was expendable when she actually was not?"

I also think that Kate is a candidate, but that *the MIB* crossed her name off in an attempt to mislead everyone else. If the MIB's best chance to leave the Island necessitates killing off all of the candidates, then in the extreme case, he has the best chance of success if *everyone* is dead. And from what we've seen, the MIB doesn't seem to be all *that* concerned with keeping the body count low (see: the Temple). So Jacob could not protect Kate either way: if she's a known candidate, then Flocke knows that he *himself* cannot kill her, but he'd still want her dead. If she's an "undercover" candidate, Flocke would believe that he *could* kill her, and certainly wouldn't be averse to doing so once she had outlived her usefulness (as Sawyer and/or Jack bait). While Widmore may want to control the candidates, he also seems to want to keep them alive. The MIB cannot kill Kate himself, and needs to set up situations in which other people would be willing to do so. By making it seem that Kate has dropped off of the list, the MIB has made Kate expendable *to Widmore*.

@Artz Vandelay #33: "Speaking of which, how long does it take to hike to the barracks, pack up some explosives and get to Hydra Island...especially since they were in a big hurry to blow up the plane?"

Is it possible that the explosives on the plane were planted by Alpert's team?

#82. Posted by: Marissa at May 5, 2010 12:43 PM

GRLMUWT (Great Review Like Mac Usually Writes Them) Vacc. Great observation on the "Don't tell me what I CAN do!" bit.

But when did Alt!Locke say "He was a sacrifice the Island demanded"? I must have missed that.

"Did Locke's flight training in the Alt timeline adequately prepare Flocke to fly a commercial jet?"

Nifty

I've read up to and including post #56. My comment is running long as it is, and I have to leave for work, so I'm just going to post it and hope I won't incur DavidRH's Scream of Wrath^tm. ;)

Some random thoughts:

-How did Sayid get to the generator? (No chicken jokes!) Shouldn't the generator be kept within the sonic fence area.

-Was it me, or was there a Star Trek communicator sound when Jack said he isn't leaving at the Ajira plane site. Or did Kirk just walk past my apartment at that moment?

-I completely missed what happened to Frank. What exactly is the last we saw of him? I remember him finding the leak after the bomb blast and after that my mind is blank, where it concerns Frank.

-How was Sayid dezombified? Desmond's doing?

-What on earth was Alt!Bernard doing with that teeth model? It looked like he was just randomly destroying it?

-Very emotional scenes at the end there, and well executed in themselves. Although story wise I'm a bit disappointed that Island!Sun&Jin apparently had no role to play at all this season. At least Sayid got to do something this season, even if I'm not sure what. Otoh, the stuff Sayid did do, made him virtually into a non-character and so lessened the impact of his presumed death. And Frank? If he's gone I have to wonder why he was there in the first place. Just to keep the plane red herring story line in place? (Vacc's great observation about Alt!Locke's flying lessons leaking over to Flocke might be the reason why Frank is not needed anymore story wise, even if Flocke needs the plane --- after all why else not just blow up the plane instead of the sub). The moment when Hurley started crying was great. Well done!


-Sawyer wasn't conscious at the end of the episode, was he? So is anyone else thinking that Hurley, Jack, and Kate will drag Sawyer into one of those outriggers and go back to the main Island for Desmond, only to encounter a time travelling group of Foomies along the way? With Sawyer out, who is going to warn them not to shoot? No one I guess. Oh oh.

@7, Boodle: "I know that Anthony Cooper was seriously injured in the plane crash at the hands of his loving son, John. (Also big twist in the alt-world...all teary eyed Locke told Jack in what high esteem he held his dad...)"

I'm thinking that the plane crash happened during the time when Cooper was 'bonding' with Locke, planning to con him, but never got to it because of the crash. So Alt!Locke never got betrayed and hence loved his father a lot and blames himself for the crash. Of course, we never learned if Alt!Anthony has kidney problems as well.


@21, GatorGal: "So...not ONCE did Sun even try to use JiYeon as a reason for Jin to save himself. Really? "

I was thinking the same thing, but apparently having been separated for so long and knowing that their daughter is in good hands with grandma made them choose death together. Perhaps not the most noble thing to do, but believable enough under these unbelievable circumstances I think. But I agree, it did irk me as well.


@22, opserc: "So, is Sayid going to start whispering on the island with Michael and talking to Hurley? How about Jin, Sun and Lapidus? Not to sure if they are whispering material as they never went to the dark side."

O, good point. I keep forgetting that Lost has *grumble* stupid *grumble* ghosts.

@33, Artz Vandelay: "Quick question...when Flocke and Claire were standing on the dock at the end of the episode, did Flocke say "It sunk," meaning the sub, or "It's Sun," "

I had close captioning on and don't remember anything out of the ordinary in that scene, which means it must have been "It sunk".


@37, ransomjackson: "Seems like the writers kept the whole “game” thing going. I kept waiting for FLocke to say, “G2.” And then Claire to say, “You sank my submarine!”"

Lol!

@38, Revelation: "Major events take place with only minor details changed "Whatever happenned,
happened" at least until Desmond got shot."

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Whatever Happened Happened or there are changes, minor or not.

@43, LostedIt: "He's *got* to know where things are going from here."

That's a big leap. There are many ways in which Flocke could've known the things he knew. He sent Locke off-Island to get the O6 back because he needed them on the Island to kill them, or better, to have them kill themselves. If there needed to be a dead body on the plane for the O6 to return, then he might not have cared who it was, it just happened to be Locke. Or perhaps he knew that people who turn the FDW can't return to the Island (what about Ben?) and so if Locke was to return it would be dead? Anyway, no need to have future sight there. And the bomb on the plane? He might have planted it there, he might be suspicious of Widmore (after all, he seemed to know what he was looking for when entering the plane), he might be in cahoots with Widmore and he asked them to put it there etc etc. Many options to choose from before resorting to "looking into the future".


@46, undauntid: "Kate’s name crossed off the wall… to make Sawyer and all think she is unprotected by her candidate status so Flocke can use the threat of killing her as a manipulation device. Which is exactly what he did…Sawyer put the rifle down."

Widmore used it as threat, not Flocke. But I was thinking along similar lines. What if the cave and/or lighthouse were designed to put either the Losties of Flocke on the wrong track?

"Claire asked Flocke, “They’re all dead?” Flocke said, “Not all of them.” Or something to that effect. Did he say some of the 6 on the sub survived, or was he implying that there are others who also have to die? Flocke said, “I’m going to finish what I started.”"

My impression is that he would know the moment he is free to leave the Island. Since he apparently still feels trapped, he can safely assume that at least one of the candidates is still alive.


@47, Callan: "Ostensibly, it came from the plane, but that was not explicitly revealed. I think it's at least possible he brought it with him, and THAT'S why he knew he would need a watch BEFORE he went into the plane."

Good point actually! This show has made such a habit out of not showing anything explicitly that there always remains room for speculations like this.


@48, English Addict: "couple of picky-points...Interesting that no one has pointed out that Jin and Sun chose to speak to each other in English, as Sun did when she found Jin on the beach last week."

I did wonder about this. It was more a problem with last episode, this week's English talk was just a continuation of that. Anyway, here's my ad hoc rationalization for it: English represents their new life together, their new found love, their hope for a better future away from their nightmarish past. Jin saying "I love you" in English is the New Jin, not the old one whom Sun fell out of love with. But yes, I am grasping here.


@54, Kompletely Lost: "There was a GREAT show on the history channel last night about alt-universes and it really put things in perspective. You CAN be in more than one ALT at a time and be alive in one and dead in the other so Sun and Jin can have a happy ending in the Alt. Yay!"

Haha, you say that like there is actually some real knowledge out there about existing alternative universes.

@56, Amyr: "And who really remembers their flight numbers after their trips. I don't fly that much, but it seems rather far fetched."

Agreed, I usually don't even remember the flight number while I'm on the flight. Now, if the number is 815, I might remember. ;)

#83. Posted by: Plain Simple at May 5, 2010 12:47 PM

#53. dk: “Flocke can't kill anyone directly so he could not have planted the C-4. I most likely was Widemore.”
#67. Posted by: undauntid: Yes. I hadn’t thought of that.

I think Flock could have planted the bomb, as long as Jack "chose" to take it from him and "chose" to leave him behind.

#84. Posted by: LostedIt at May 5, 2010 12:48 PM

How is it that Sawyer can spend most of his life (and have access to LAPD resources )looking for Anthony Cooper and can't find him yet Jack can track him down in a couple of hours?

#85. Posted by: PZ at May 5, 2010 12:52 PM

@83 - Plain Simply

"@38, Revelation: "Major events take place with only minor details changed "Whatever happenned,
happened" at least until Desmond got shot."

"You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either Whatever Happened Happened or there are changes, minor or not. "

I should have clarified. I was paraphrasing something that Eloise Hawking said to Desmond after the man in the Red Shoes was killed. Something to the effect that major events in your life will still take place even if the circumstances leading up to it are different. Charley still dies, just not in the same way without Desmonds interference.
This is why I think her aknowledgement of not knowing what was going to happen next was probably very significant.

#86. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 1:05 PM

I think that Jin may still be alive and I'll tell you why.

I'm not sure if it means anything but in the ALT universe when Locke is leaving the hospital and Jack is saying goodbye we see Jin walk by with roses for his gunshot wife and he's kinda in a panicked state almost like something happened to Sun.

#87. Posted by: JasonB at May 5, 2010 1:08 PM

I think TPTB are starting to explain the more fantasy elements of the show.

For instance, it's been hinted that Sayid was turned into some sort of Zombie. But I think in actuality, he was just told what Flocke told Jack -- "I could kill you".

Sayid knew that Flocke brought him back, and that he could (or so he thought) just take him right back out. This realization must of been pretty demoralizing and would of made Sayid like a "Zombie".

#88. Posted by: Dan at May 5, 2010 1:09 PM

Not everyone remembers their flight numbers, but a couple probably do. And if you keep running into each other talking about the flight you were on together, then you'd keep mentioning 815.

I also agree that Bernard the dentist seemed rather enlightened. (someone mentioned why didn't Locke recognize that he knew them both - well he went to Bernard once 3 years ago, and only met Rose once 3 years later as the manager of the temp agency, so maybe he didn't get Rose's last name, or forgot about the dentist he met years earlier).

The sub started to surface before the bomb went off, and still could have surfaced a bit more before too much water flooded in, so it's possible they were close enough to the surface to swim up without getting the bends. Though I am amazed that Hurley was able to swim back to shore with an injured Kate.

#89. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 5, 2010 1:12 PM

#78. Posted by: NotLost

Good point about Locke finding the C4 (if in fact that's what it was). Why would he have to trace the wires into the overhead compartment if he had already planted it there? No one was watching so he didn't have to pretend to find it.

#82. Posted by: Marissa

I think you're right - Ben, Miles and Richard planted the bomb. But MIB knew they would do it. He posed as Isabella (or ordered her spirit) to convince Richard not to let MIB leave the island. Which meant blowing up the plane. So, the 3 amigos planted the bomb, but MIB knew it would be in there... somewhere, all along.

#90. Posted by: Christin at May 5, 2010 1:23 PM

@89. Posted by: BostonSteve

"Though I am amazed that Hurley was able to swim back to shore with an injured Kate."

Hurley packs a hefty load of balast, and with an oxegen egress breather to share, they could take the time to float up.

#91. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 1:25 PM

I think that there might be a chance that Flocke’s seemingly villainous behavior is meant to provoke the survivors to redeem themselves through love and/or self-sacrifice. Maybe that is the only way each individual can ever really get off the island. Flocke can’t make them better people. They must redeem themselves. He might want them together because he knows how close they have grown, and threatening the “family,” brings out the best in the individuals within the group. He knew that Sawyer would do what he did too.

#92. Posted by: CATON at May 5, 2010 1:25 PM

#83. Posted by: Plain Simple
I think you would have to have seen it to know what the physicists were explaining. It was part of the series "Universe" and they do have some proof of some electrons in atoms leaving and returning from "other universes/dimensions" and also occupying two places at the same time. It also described thin membranes between realities and because some electrons can cross over and return it reminded me of the "leakage".
Did anyone else catch this show and understand quantum physics better than I to explain it to Plain Simple?

#93. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 5, 2010 1:26 PM

Maybe Sayid was dezombified when he was sealed in the sub - no direct contact with Flocke? Also, underwater?

#94. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at May 5, 2010 1:30 PM

"Ostensibly, it came from the plane, but that was not explicitly revealed. I think it's at least possible he brought it with him, and THAT'S why he knew he would need a watch BEFORE he went into the plane."

If Flocke can get off the island without killing any of them directly and the C4 was planted by Widmore, then all of them would have been taken care of in one fell swoop. Callan has a point then: was the C4 really on the plane or did Flocke manufacture the scenario?

#95. Posted by: PV in NYC at May 5, 2010 2:18 PM

Great review Vacc!!!

I want to know what Ricardos and Ben are up to. I miss him.

I love the irony and how everything is connecting so well! They did a great job!

It's also funny how Sawyer is getting really annoying and I am really starting to like Jack. His character is becoming the Jack we all wanted him to become and were annoyed that he was not this. He also doesn't breathe as annoying anymore... and even if he does (sometimes), it's not as annoying because his actions make up for it.

Kudos to Flocke for getting rid of 3 (possibly 2) of 6. The Sun/Jin scene was dramatic.

Epic deaths seem to always involve water. I guess it's because they are on an island. One could argue that Charlie's death was one of the saddest on television. If I had feelings, I would probably have cried.

I personally was hit by Alex's death... maybe just because of Ben's face after it. Arzt's was my favorite... and Paulikki after that.

I can't wait to learn more about Jacob and MIB.

... I'll be back. Only two finals left and I'm done with my freshmen year!! Maybe nobody even noticed I was gone... Haha. =]

#96. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 5, 2010 2:19 PM

I too have a problem with the C4 on the plane. Should have been in the hold or bythe gas tanks in the wings, not in a overhead compartment where it was so easily found.

#97. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 2:22 PM

A good article interviewing the producers and actors and getting their reaction to last nights show. A little spoilery, so beware.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/

#98. Posted by: geo at May 5, 2010 2:24 PM

I don't remember C4 being mentioned in the barracks weapons inventory, just gun powderand hand granades. Widmore had C4 on the freighter, ergo most likely was "not Flocke's explosives."

#99. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 2:26 PM

@51- The music box should have at least one hidden compartment. I was yelling at Claire to pick up the tray. There has to be something in there that would make sense of the gift...although it was awfully purty.

Ahhh... the animal cages. Such fond memories of better days where you escape enclosures for monkey sex with Sawyer while Jack watches from a video camera while mouth-breathing. No wait... that part was pretty creepy. Nevermind.

#100. Posted by: lardiea at May 5, 2010 2:29 PM

With just three episodes left this show is still going nowhere fast. They have created so many convoluted twists that as the series closes we are given "solutions" that appear forced if not ridiculous.Jack "saves" Sawyer by pulling him underwater without even a choke or cough from Sawyer upon being revived. Unconscious people don't hold their breath automatically under water. All that work reuniting the Kwons for three years and they both drown? Sayid proves to be a master tech at assembling radios, bombs, etc but somehow cannot deactivate this bomb. I am afraid that after 6 years the viewers are headed for disappointment of epic proportions.

#101. Posted by: Nebur at May 5, 2010 2:39 PM

@ post # 4

Your screen name is childish and somewhat inappropriet. To each his/her own, but really why?

#102. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 2:40 PM

up to #84

@37 ransomjackson (uh isn't the ...son quite new, or have I been asleep)
Quote-Plus, he’s a pretty lousy cop. Been looking for Anthony Cooper for years, can’t find him. Jack gets a name on a piece of paper and shows up fourteen minutes later?-endQuote
lol, thanks

#103. Posted by: mtncbn at May 5, 2010 2:48 PM

The submarine aspects of the episode were sub-par (I know it's just a TV show but):

1. The sub was located inside a harbor. It would take several minutes to leave the harbor to get into open water to dive.

2. The immediately diving of the sub plus Jack finding a bomb within a minute below deck meant that the submarine was not at any deep depth. The camera angle on the sub was level; this was not a "crash dive" but a gradual normal. Normal dive can be at most 50 feet per minute. Based on the sequence of events, the sub was probably less than 20 feet below the surface with more than 3 minutes left on the bomb clock (i.e. plenty of time to surface).

3. Submarines fixtures are all built in structures. A cabinet coming loose and trapping Sun was highly unrealistic. In addition, Sun being pinned by wall pipes meant that she had to wedge herself behind them before the explosion. Really?

If they were trying to re-create the Looking Glass scene, the set-up for Charlie's death was more believable.

#104. Posted by: welh at May 5, 2010 2:48 PM

Right now I feel like they'll all loosen the cork at the end and slip into hell.

#105. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at May 5, 2010 2:53 PM

I don't necessarily subscribe to this, but i'll just throw it out there:

Perhaps FLocke/MIB really IS good, and the only reason he has such disregard for human lives is because he knows this Universe doesn't matter, it's the Altverse which does, and those people will still be alive there.

#106. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 5, 2010 2:54 PM

#74. Posted by: Revelation
I was kind of thinking a similar thing about disarming the bomb that Jack should do it as he would have the dexterity in his hands to pull off such a maneuver. Granted Jack was opposed to trying to disarm the bomb, but before he voiced his objection I would have thought someone would suggest it. Why would Sawyer charge ahead with it himself when there were two others with more suitable skills for such things?

#107. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 5, 2010 2:58 PM

@106. Posted by: BostonSteve

I am with ya brother - I believe the alt timeline is the real timeline and our losties are living in a skewed timeline that was not supposed to happen. This is why they remember the false timeline in the alt world, but not the alt world in the island time.

#108. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 3:03 PM

#83. Plain Simple: “I'm thinking that the plane crash happened during the time when Cooper was 'bonding' with Locke, planning to con him, but never got to it because of the crash. So Alt!Locke never got betrayed and hence loved his father a lot and blames himself for the crash. Of course, we never learned if Alt!Anthony has kidney problems as well.” ____ Good point!

#92. CATON ____ I feel pretty confident in my belief that Flocke is not interested in the redemption or betterment of pretty much anyone, living or dead, animal, vegetable or mineral.

#94. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man:
"Maybe Sayid was dezombified when he was sealed in the sub - no direct contact with Flocke? Also, underwater?"
____ I think the "dezombification" of Sayid happened when Desmond brought to his attention that Sayid's beloved would not approve of what he paid for his reunion with her.

#109. Posted by: undauntid at May 5, 2010 3:05 PM

Headlines: Young Jedi Fails.

After successfully tricking Richard into letting the fuse in his dynamite burn into dud status, Young Jedi Jack Shephard was unable to use his mind tricks on stoic veteran, the wily Darth Sawyer. Sawyer failed to 'gain faith' in 'the force' that Shephard was selling that day, and the fuse he was holding actually accelerated, instead of dudding. In typical Jedi fashion, Shephard saved Darth Sawyer's sorry ass anyway. Quoted later on the beach, while bawling like a baby and mouth-breathing like a knuckle-dragging Neaderthal, Shephard said, "I just want to fix everything in the world, but these big meanies just won't trust."

Film at Eleven.

#110. Posted by: This Just Inn at May 5, 2010 3:26 PM

@ 103 mtncbn questioned, "isn't the ...son quite new, or have I been asleep)

I'm leaning toward sleepy.

I've been ransomjackson (nickname) since I was a wee toddler. He was a baseball player for the Cubs, Dodgers (Brooklyn and LA), and Indians.

We share a first name - Handsome. But he hit and threw from the "wrong" side.

#111. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 5, 2010 3:34 PM

WOW...great episode, didn't expect to see so many characters die in 1 episode. According to wikipedia, the next episode's features a flashback of MIB and Jacob...argh can't wait.

#112. Posted by: Lost Fan at May 5, 2010 3:50 PM

I believe to the fullest extent that
Justin M. Of new york needs to get a life. Trust in yourself and your erroneous ideas and you'll find your own answers. Now get off the computer and go mow your lawn...with each grass clipping comes the visions u seek....and what you seek is help...I love you

#113. Posted by: cipsta at May 5, 2010 4:10 PM

I thought Smokey could not go in the water? And there he was just coming out of the water like nothing! I thought he would vaporize or something.
I guess that must have been a lie?
Or as long as smokey is in another body he can go in water....?

#114. Posted by: Christina at May 5, 2010 4:21 PM

I can get emotional mind you, but I must admit when Hugo barked out that cry, I found it quite funny. And was Widmore hiding in a spider hole from MIB or in cahoots? If the latter, perhaps that's why he had his Tier 4 missionaries. Ya know, the ones that need breaks.

#115. Posted by: Rich in Baltimore at May 5, 2010 4:25 PM

@114. Posted by: Christina

I think that as long as he is a human form, he can be in water. He can not be in water as smoke thing, nor can change form to smoke thing when in the water.

Curious, but could this be tied to Waaaaaaalt! being drenched driping wet when he appears to shannon.

Anyone have any insight to this?

#116. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 4:35 PM

As I think abnout smokie and the water (no BOC references intended here) IF smokie uses the islands electro-magnetic energy, and even though electromagnets work under water, he may not be able to sustain himself in water if his power source is not insulated.

#117. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 4:43 PM

I think Jacob's plan is insidious and genious.

He's going to have Jack as his replacement and Jack's breathing will annoy MiB for all eternity.

#118. Posted by: Gumbo at May 5, 2010 4:47 PM

backgammon
has a rule called the jacoby rule
interesting

#119. Posted by: jack at May 5, 2010 4:50 PM

where was it said that smokey/Flocke/MIB couldn't go in the water?

#120. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 5, 2010 5:12 PM

Funniest line to me was when the power went out in the cages and Hurley said, "And...we're dead." Could also be a loaded statement.

#121. Posted by: jk at May 5, 2010 5:22 PM

Do we think that Desmond is a canidate?

#120. BostonSteve
Smokey mentioned some thing about the water. I cannot recall if he said it to Sawyer or Sayid...cause he sent both of them over to the the Hydra Island. Too much time gone by now.

#122. Posted by: Christina at May 5, 2010 5:32 PM

@122. Posted by: Christina
them over to the the Hydra Island. Too much time gone by now.

I think Sawyer asked him why he didn't just do his smoke think and fly over to the hydra island to rescue Jin, andf Flocke said that if he could do that he already would have - paraphrased, but close enough.

#123. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 5:40 PM

@ Schiano 79

YEAH, what's with the dharma food drop?? This was always one of my favourite never-explained mysteries. And I bet they won't answer this.

#124. Posted by: Potiguar at May 5, 2010 5:40 PM

@ Schiano 79 & 124

YEAH, what's with the dharma food drop?? This was always one of my favourite never-explained mysteries. And I bet they won't answer this.

At first, in my mind i think I attributed the food drop to time window issue, but later on after the man from tallahassee, I credited the food drop to Jacob and the big box that ben was talking about. The box that gives whatever you desire thing.

Or it was just a really funny moment so that hurley could looked terified that evryone hated hurley again.

#125. Posted by: Revelation at May 5, 2010 5:52 PM

The alt universe better be the real one, we're running out of people!

I have to back the crowd in awarding the Kwon's "Worse Parenting of the Year" for not considering their daughter. Seriously?

Next episode should be chock-ful of answer goodness. Can't wait!

#126. Posted by: The Duf at May 5, 2010 5:58 PM

Why do we think Widmore had Jin brought to his camp? What was the purpose of that?

#127. Posted by: tesla at May 5, 2010 7:10 PM

@18 lost2thworld asked:

>ANFGW?

>Any one notice Flocke got wet? Guess all that speculation was for naught.

We'd seen him wading in the surf and eating mangoes before. The specualtions as that *in smokeyform* he couldn't handle water, that being why he needs a lift to "go home".

o===========

@20 onelostdude speculated

>Does Widmore's sub have torpedo tubes? They could have launched the backpack out one of the tubes. At the very least they could have put the backpack in a separate compartment then sealed it. They had almost four minutes left to try do something, until Sawyer pulled the wires. I was also amazed at how quickly the sub left the dock. I guess the were powered up and ready to go. Yeah batteries.

Yeah, I was yelling at Sayid - "Just toss it in a compartment and dog thewhater-tight hatch!" It woulod havebeen a lot more effectivat containing the explosion than mere distance alone could provide.

o================

@27 shikotee:

>Ah - back in the cages! So - why wouldn't Kate just climb upwards and once again slip through the bars? Has she put on weight?

I asked my wife the same thing. Not about the weight - has Kate forgotten she can climb out through the top?

o================

@66 August Paul wrote:

>One last thought. It might have been interesting to reverse all the images in altverse when editing the final cut. Since everything is digital anyhow, it could not have been too difficult except they would have to have all signs reversed which would have made it not worth the effort. But everyone would have looked a little different though still familiar.

They did this once, creating all the signs in reverse, plus costumes, etc, then reversing the film so as to make the streets of Honolulu look like Sydney with right-hand drive cars and reverse side of street driving. Trouble is, done well, nobody notices.

#128. Posted by: Cecil at May 5, 2010 7:31 PM

I believe to the fullest extent that
Justin M. Of new york needs to get a life. Trust in yourself and your erroneous ideas and you'll find your own answers. Now get off the computer and go mow your lawn...with each grass clipping comes the visions u seek....and what you seek is help...I love you
#113. Posted by: cipsta


Obviously, someone is taking this "alternate World" to heart . . . Did we just step into a family spat!?!

#129. Posted by: davidrh at May 5, 2010 7:39 PM

a highly entertaining episode in which we saw original characters bite the dust,
however, im kinda with welh @-104,
the submarine scenario did stretch things just a wee bit,
but we have to remind ourselves that this is drama & that we sometimes have to use a bit of imagination in order to keep the story enjoyable yet credible.
i will award this episode a generous 8 out of 10,
i have 1 episode in mind that i gave a perfect 10 to in a previous season,
feel free to hazard a guess as to which episode i'm referring,
answers on a postcard only, competition ends at midnight on tues. 11 may,
answers after stated time/date will be deemed INVALID,
(your statuatory rights are not affected)

#130. Posted by: san at May 5, 2010 8:02 PM

DIBS: Please note I am officially changing my name from Sayidisn’tso to DEZOMBIFICATION, although I might still be a bit zombified as I didn’t shed even one tear last night – very unlike the real me. Did anyone think of Ack Attack’s “JEARS” when Jack was crying?

#22 opserc (you new around these here parts?) I guess backwards whispers from Sayid are better than nothing, right Tiffani?

#28 Shikotee, Maybe the music box tune was meant to establish a type of “leakage” Zombie Claire somehow already knew the song of the music box that Alt Claire hadn’t yet received.
Then I had a sad thought of the Little Prince… and B12… and the days when we thought everything had an interwoven connection waiting to be scrutinized and uncovered.

Just Inn, I think you're funny.

BTW: My hubs had shoulder surgery on Tuesday and with a totally straight face I asked him if he knew what a certain friend was doing on Tuesday night. He said he didn't know and why? With perfect delivery I said, I was just thinking that after your surgery you might need something and I'll be busy watching LOST!

#131. Posted by: DEZOMBIFICATION at May 5, 2010 8:32 PM

Two more quick things...I took United Flight 100 last week, and no I did not have to look that up to remember it!

Dharma might have been purged, but they still had a couple people in a hatch saving the world by pushing a button that they needed to feed...hence the continued food drops.

#132. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 5, 2010 9:15 PM

@83 Plain Simple
GRLMUWT (Great Review Like Mac Usually Writes Them)

Beat me to it. Mine was GORAA (Great Occasional Review As Always). Just realized that Vacc rhymes with Mac.

Anyone else think of Fantasy Island and Tattoo when Sayid said, "Welcome...to Hydra Island"?

@96 Ilovebenjaminlinusxx
Welcome back. But what's this all about: "If I had feelings, I probably would have cried??" Have you been zombified?

BTW, I think Sayid was dezombified when he went BOOM.

Don't think Richard planted C4 on the plane. Why would he plant a bomb in the plane instead of just blowing it up if his goal was to remove Flocke's means of escape? I vote Widmore. And my guess is that Flocke figured out rather quickly by the lack of protection around the plane that it was booby-trapped and went inside guessing he might find some explosives.

I have a great new business idea, like Kramer's Reality Tour. Offer tourist flights on Oceanic 815. Maybe you'll land on a mysterious island, maybe you'll arrive at LAX. Now if I could just find a good trademark lawyer and get my hands on a plane.

#133. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at May 5, 2010 9:47 PM

I too hope that the "Dharma Drops" of season two get explained. Someone knew how to get to the island. Who?
Got a feeling it has to do with Faraday's mom. (only couldn't find island after it moved.)

#134. Posted by: Stock at May 5, 2010 9:55 PM

@27 shikotee /@128 Cecil

>>Ah - back in the cages! So - why wouldn't Kate just climb upwards and once again slip through the bars? Has she put on weight?

>I asked my wife the same thing. Not about the weight - has Kate forgotten she can climb out through the top

Also, all of the other people in the cage had longer arms than Kate, and they all stood around while she grasped for the keys that were just... out.. of... her... reach.

#135. Posted by: LockeBox at May 5, 2010 11:01 PM

Hope this works...click my name for my Lost tour photos.

#136. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 5, 2010 11:19 PM

@104./welh: AND that pier is in a fishing pond that is only 2 feet deep! They should have been able to get back to the surface in no time!

#137. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 6, 2010 12:01 AM

My thought exactly - re: the sub. I sure got out to deep water in a hurry. And I mean deep. That sub was going down like it was in the Mariana Trench.

#138. Posted by: dk at May 6, 2010 1:37 AM

My thought exactly - re: the sub. It sure got out to deep water in a hurry. And I mean deep. That sub was going down like it was in the Mariana Trench.

#139. Posted by: dk at May 6, 2010 1:38 AM

Yes, a long post, but with only 3 epis left, how many more chances do we have to knock these things around?

TPTB have gone to such great lengths this season to affirm that yes, MIB is evil, a liar and a manipulator, they even asked Doc Jensen to post interview quotes to that effect immediately after last night's broadcast.

It's too bad Ealgumby and Alais are boycotting the blog- they so eloquently argued the viewpoint that the "MIB as evil" plotline was too obvious to be true, I wonder how they feel now as we enter the final episodes?

I'd argue that TPTB are being deliberately obvious this year, asking Lost viewers to go along for the ride rather than playing doubting Thomas.

Yes, Virginia, MIB is evil, Jack (the hero from the first second of the first episode) is the Chosen One, the future of the world as we know it is at stake, and unless I am completely off my game, the alt-world is the epilogue to the series- chronologically what comes next for the characters once MIB is contained and the island submerged- call it a reboot, reincarnation, whatever, only needing self-reflection (the mirror images) and awakening (the constant motif of eyes opening).

Darlton have kidded in the past that Stephen King should sue them for transplanting The Stand to an island. Certainly the bomb episode last night was very similar to a shocking hidden bomb incident in the Stand that occurs about 3/4 of the way through and sets the stage for the remaining characters to begin their final journey to confront evil.

Last night also flipped the Jack-Sawyer leadership dynamic back to its original orientation- from the moment Sawyer asserted himself in Dharma he has clearly been in charge, allowing Jack to take the lead only once- a decision which led to Juliet's death.

Now that Sawyer is responsible for causing the deaths of several of his friends, we should see his self-loathing climb to never before seen heights, and Doc Jack will resume his role as leader.

I am also 100% on board with Widmore as a MIB dupe. The bear cage attack came across as staged for the Losties benefit- rather than conducting a full scale Temple like assault, MIB tosses around Doughboy and leaves.

Widmore launches a mortar attack into a group where Jack is standing? C3 happens to be stowed aboard a lightly guarded plane? The sub is completely undefended- until they get in it, when gunfire pins our castaways INSIDE the sub?

Compared to the Keamy commando team Widmore sent last time, this group seems comical- a theatrical version similar to the costumes and beards the Others once wore to fool the Oceanic survivors.

Claire has now been left behind 3 times- don't know what it means, but it seems significant. The biggest clue regarding the music box was her admission that she never met Christian.

That means there was no car accident with her mother, the event that brought Christian to the land down under to first meet Claire.

I've argued before that in the Alt-world, the mysterious car crashes do not occur because they are not needed to steer the characters on their detined path.

Claire's mom never goes into a coma. Emily Locke is not hit by a car when pregnant, and so Locke grows up with a relationship with his father.

Sarah and Adam Rutherford don't crash- so Jack marries someone else and has a son, while much angst is spared Boone and Shannon. Michael is not hit by a car, so Walt never goes to Australia and is not on the plane. Nadia is alive and well, and certainly not hit by that car.

The alt-world is showing us where these characters had their lives interfered with in the original timeline. However many personal decisions, such as Christian's alcoholism and death, Charlie's drug habit, etc.- never had anything to do with the island, Jacob or MIB, and are unchanged in either timeline.

Finally, I agree with an earlier poster that the Jin-Sun reunion scene was deliberately underplayed so they could emotionally punch us in the face the next episode with their death scene- well played, Darlton!

#140. Posted by: Mizzed at May 6, 2010 1:39 AM

#137. FenwayBen
Lost tour photos -- were awesome. Thank you for sharing. Would you mind if I asked how much they charge for that tour? If we can go to HA soon, I'd like to take it.

#141. Posted by: sweetpea at May 6, 2010 1:43 AM

You can use the cue point marker to further adjust the placement of the cue point. Rescue Recover Wholesale

#142. Posted by: Rescue Recover Wholesale at May 6, 2010 1:48 AM

#64 (Stock) "All will have to die for the MIB to escape.
Jack will be the last. MIB will give him a choice, bring back all his friends (alt. universe, one of free will) or have the power of the island.
Jack will have a leap of faith, and die.
Alt. universe comes true."

I hope the series will end this way. Jacob dead, MIB dead and all Losties dead. The "original" Lost timeline, and also the Island, will cease to exist. The Alt. timeline becomes the "real" timeline which means we already saw the result of the actual "ending" in the first episode of season 6.

Further observations and speculations:
- the writers chose the option of letting Jin and Sun die together because this timeline will cease to exist anyway. So there won't be a need for Jin to care for their daughter. Nevertheless, Jin didn't know this ;)
- in my opinion, an Alt. timeline of free will and without any intervening gods would be a beautiful ending -- especially in contrast to the crappy BSG ending.
- I suspect Desmond eventually succeeds in saving Charlie since Charlie won't die in the Alt. timeline. Retrospectively, this would make the scene from "The Constant" where Charlie sings Wonderwall even greater.
- I'm beginning to believe that there won't be a consistent explanation for all the Lost mysteries. Maybe the writers deliberately chose not to explain the mystery. I choose to believe that I won't be disappointed by this decision since the Alt. timeline (which could be seen as our timeline) doesn't really depend on mystery. The premise of the show would be that the writers were able to create some kind of parallel Lost universe with rules that differ from our world.

#143. Posted by: Margot at May 6, 2010 6:16 AM

I don't know if anyone else mentioned it but on second viewing, I saw that Jin insisted that Jack take a breathing apparatus for Sawyer so this is how he probably survived the water while being unconscious. Also, as far as the kids go, I think at this point they are probably better off in their grandparents' care given how messed up their parents will be after 3 years of this insanity. I have PTSD just watching them. But this might be taking things too seriously.....

#144. Posted by: miss vicki at May 6, 2010 7:09 AM

#69. Posted by: Glen
Could it be that when we saw Jin's hand let go of Sun's, he was on his way out of the sub instead of dead?

Jin has blown up and mysteriously and unconsciously washed ashore several times (the raft - appearing with the tailies, the freighter - appearing with the French team and now the sub blowing up...)

Jin may be alive, because he is a candidate, whether he likes it or not.

#145. Posted by: Addicted to LOST at May 6, 2010 7:27 AM

@144 - Margot wrote:
"I hope the series will end this way. Jacob dead, MIB dead and all Losties dead. The "original" Lost timeline, and also the Island, will cease to exist. The Alt. timeline becomes the "real" timeline which means we already saw the result of the actual "ending" in the first episode of season 6."

I agree for themost part, and I have posted this theoiry twice on past threads, except I don't think the "Alt" world BECOMES the "Real" world. It already is the real world. Jacob/MIB created the island timeline to accomodate this contest. Whatever happened, happened on the "Real" world timeline and Jacob/MIB cannot interfere with that reality. He/They made a copy a very long time ago, and started to alter the copy instead. I also believe you are right about Jack having to make a decision (Free will).

#146. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 8:47 AM

@136/ FenwayBen:
Nice tour.

#147. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 8:56 AM

I continue to dislike the sideways world because I think it is a last season crutch to be probably used as "an out" to not explain the mysteries that have piled up in the previous five seasons.

#148. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 9:11 AM

@136/ FenwayBen:
Great pictures. Thank you for sharing them with us!!!


#149. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 9:16 AM

@tiffani #77 While a good point, and he should have done it for the sake of the others, he didn't need to because, in his opinion, it wasn't going to go off. Leaving the question, would it have gone off if Sawyer hadn't pulled the wires? Rule Number whatever, MIB can's kill candidates. Therefore bomb wouldn't go off. But Sawyer pulling the wires is what really set the bomb and therefore MIB would no longer be responsible, rather Sawyer was. And Flocke figured that one of the alpha males would do that.

#150. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 9:40 AM

What a funny feeling looking through Fenway’s pictures. You know this whole thing is JUST a television production, but deep down inside a little voice keeps popping up . . .

“. . What? You mean it was all make believe? . . . . “

#151. Posted by: davidrh at May 6, 2010 9:46 AM

@136 FenwayBen:

>Hope this works...click my name for my Lost tour photos.

It wwored great - great photos. Envy, envy, envy.

#152. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 6, 2010 9:47 AM

@142 Rescue Recover Wholesale:

Is the "cue point" where the two realities diverged?

#153. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 6, 2010 9:50 AM

@64 / 123 / etc. on the "Alt" timeline being or becoming the real timeline:

Here's my concern: all season long, we've been wondering whether to care about the Alt timeline. Seeing Sun and Jin d... well, you know, and then seeing Locke, Jin and all the other dead people going strong in Alt, made me wonder whether we should care about the ORIGINAL timeline at all. And that's just a nasty, uncomfortable feeling.

#154. Posted by: LockeBox at May 6, 2010 9:56 AM

@143 Margot prophesied:

>- in my opinion, an Alt. timeline of free will and without any intervening gods would be a beautiful ending -- especially in contrast to the crappy BSG ending.

I'v heard several references to a dissappointing BSG ending, but I never followed the new BSG...

Whar did thay do that was so dissappointing?

And was it intentional, or (as sometimes happens) a result of the final episode being in the can before they found out the series was cancelled?

#155. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 6, 2010 9:58 AM

@undauntid #60 "It just occurred to me that her [Eloise's] foreknowledge might be due to her reading Faraday's journals. Faraday died, no more entries, ergo: No more foreknowledge" Very interesting point which we need to keep considering. I guess that the only time/place she could read them was on the island after she shot him before he was born, but not conceived as she was pregnant when helping retreive the atom bomb. If so, then she would have known more or less his entire life and while making claims on the inevitability of the future, forced the future herself by forcing Faraday into science rather than his preference, music. It's enough to give me a headache.

#156. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 10:04 AM

I'm sorry to be so dumb, but what is BSG?

#157. Posted by: davidrh at May 6, 2010 10:14 AM

@156. Posted by: August Paul

Eloise makes the choice to push Daniel towards science after some revelation that she gets. We see the scene where she interupts Daniel on the piano. He is quite good, not unlike Jacks Son in the other, "Real" timeline, and he did not get this way overnight. Someone, or something, convinced her to put a stop to Daniel's musical pursuits. My bet is interference by Jacob. Interesting that in the other timeline , which IMO is the Real timeline, Daniel is a musician that knows nothing about physics until he has a conciousness bleedover from the other timeline. This is where the conciousness time travel jumps are going. See how it all ties together!!!

All TPTB need now is big red bow to put on top.

#158. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 10:22 AM

Several people have commented on the dezombification (my spell checker just loves that word) of Sayid and I come down on the side that the zombification is a form of hypnosis out of which one can be snapped. I think it was his little discussion with Desmond and Desmond's enlightening question "What will you tell her you had to do to be reunited with her again?" that did it. I believe that Sayid has always had a moral core but is susceptible to being conned into thinking that his bad actions (torturing enemies of the state, slaughtering Widmore agents i.e., enemies of his friends, killing Dogen and Lennon) were for some greater good. I think that Claire also snapped out of it when she had her heart to heart with Kate just before getting on the sailboat.

#159. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 10:25 AM

((((((((())))))))))

Can someone help me out with this question - where is Ben and Miles? Are there any other main people we missed this past episode? (Desmond in well)

((((((())))))))))))

#160. Posted by: Mr_Naysayer at May 6, 2010 10:26 AM

#146. Posted by: Revelation: " (the alt world) It already is the real world. Jacob/MIB created the island timeline to accomodate this contest...He/They made a copy a very long time ago, and started to alter the copy instead."

That's interesting. The "original" time line was fabricated. The mystery then is: To what end?

Do you think Jacob & MIB have long known the circumstances under which "the world will end"? And all this business with the island & candidates is simply intended to bring a specific group of people together in the For Real True Time Line (FRTTL). Their sense of familiarity (caused by the fabricated timeline) being what brings them together to do whatever it is that needs to be done to prevent the end of the world. "It takes a village"...Maybe something as simple as Ji Yeon and Aaron being raised among these friends, will marry and have a child and through that child's good works, mankind's mindset will shift and WWIII will be averted ????

#161. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 10:30 AM

@159 - August Paul - On Dezombification of Sayid. I love that word too.

I agree with most of your take on sayid's moral core. IMO you are right about the completion of Sayid's return being the conversation with Desmond.
I had a more detailed view of Sayid's dezombification that involves the underlying theme of free-will in LOST. I posted 4/15 as follows:
"Sayid did not volunteer to be one of the minions. He was baptized in the temple pool without consent, much like Ben was. Ben seems to have been able to overcome the brutally dispassionate walking dead mentality of the others, and I believe Sayid will overcome this as well. He mentioned to Flock that he felt nothing, yet when given the opportunity to kill Widmore’s right hand girl Zoe, he tells her to run instead. I believe that Sayid is exercising the one thing evil cannot usurp, his freewill. He is aware of the possession, and did not consent. His lack of Consent is a violation of the rules, so he is free to reject the infection"

#162. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 10:34 AM

@161. Posted by: undauntid

I like this!

#163. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 10:37 AM

#157. Posted by: davidrh: Battle Star Galactica

#160. Posted by: Mr_Naysayer: Ben, Miles, and Richard Alpert headed off to some Dharma facility to fetch explosives from with which to blow up the ajira jet. So if it wasn't them who placed the c4 in the plane, then the possibility exists of them showing up packing some serious heat.

#164. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 10:46 AM

#157 (davidrh) "I'm sorry to be so dumb, but what is BSG?"

BSG = (new) Battlestar Galactica

You're not dumb, you're lucky not to have seen it.

#155 (Cecil Rose) "I'v heard several references to a dissappointing BSG ending, but I never followed the new BSG...

Whar did thay do that was so dissappointing?"

They explained all remaining mysteries by the intervention of god.

I'm confident the Lost writers will be able to give us at least one of the following:
1) a consistent explanation of the Lost mythology (i.e. simulated reality)
or
2) a sandbox scenario: only the Island timeline relies on mysteries (i.e. the existence and intervention of Jacob and MIB (good vs. evil), time jumps, ghosts, ...). The "real"/Alt. timeline represents the world as we know it.

#165. Posted by: Margot at May 6, 2010 10:51 AM

Let me be clear: the ending to BSG was fantastic. I'm not sure what folks were expecting, but I found it clever, compelling and -- most importantly -- a fitting conclusion that made perfect sense within the context of the entire series. And how do I know this? Because the more I thought about it (and I thought about it a LOT because I love BSG), the more I appreciated it. To me, that's the mark of great content: if I keep coming back to it, turning it over in my head and examining different angles.

That's my only hope for "Lost's" conclusion, too. And I have great faith the creators -- who are undeniably clever and smart -- can do it. What I don't want is anything that feels out of place within the rest of the show. And I seriously doubt they'd go down that road.

#166. Posted by: mac at May 6, 2010 11:02 AM

131@dezombification, yes backwards whispers from sayid are better than nothing ;-) would be nice if he werent in jail in the alt timeline too.

namaste!!

#167. Posted by: tiffani at May 6, 2010 11:03 AM

#156. Posted by: August Paul: "If so, then she would have known more or less his entire life and while making claims on the inevitability of the future, forced the future herself by forcing Faraday into science rather than his preference, music. It's enough to give me a headache."

Not to be unkind but, contributing to the headache.... Reading your response to my comment raises this question: If she knew that Faraday's study of physics would end up with her murdering her own son, why wouldn't she have encouraged his continued study of music? Unless she,or his father, thought his study of physics could be guided to prevent ....oh dear, I just stepped onto the whirling vortex of time travel and my nose is bleeding.

#168. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 11:07 AM

@ Fenwayben #136 Fun tour. Was this a guided tour put on by ABC or an affiliate or some enterprising soul who saw a great opportunity?

#169. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 11:17 AM

@168 - Undaunted asked:
"If she knew that Faraday's study of physics would end up with her murdering her own son, why wouldn't she have encouraged his continued study of music?"
IMO - Jacob interfered and convinced her that this course was needed.

Do you think that it is significant that both leaders of the others, Eloise/charles and Ben, both sacrificed their kid to the island?

#170. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 11:24 AM

@ Revelation #158 Well thought out. My cynical side thinks that TPTB didn't put much thought into how Childe Faraday became so good a pianist, just wanted to show his resistance to science and his evil mother's pushing him in a direction that would lead to his death, thus avenging the pains of childbirth (just messing here.) I like your analysis very much, also about Alt being either "real" or the timeline that perseveres.

#171. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 11:26 AM

@157:

davidrh, this has been discussed on this blog MANY times. I suggest you read every comment before posting.

#172. Posted by: Take That, Bitch! at May 6, 2010 11:26 AM

@172 - by whatever. - Do really mean you want Davidrh to read all 4830 something entries from the begining of this season, (not including the hiatus threads) or the almost 25,000 entries since the inception of the blog before he asks a question?

If please feel free to do the same.

Whatever!

#173. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 11:34 AM

#166 (mac) "Let me be clear: the ending to BSG was fantastic..."

I guess there isn't much in between ;)

Would you be satisfied with "Jacob=god=good" and "MIB=satan=evil" which self-sufficiently would explain all mysteries? Maybe Desmond is some kind of angel? This wouldn't differ much from the BSG ending.

#174. Posted by: Margot at May 6, 2010 11:36 AM

@171 - Undauntid - Follow up to 158

Heres the real mind torque-
If jack becomes the island leader, will he have to sacrifice the life of his "Real" world son in order to live the "Alt" world timeline and keep MIB trappped? Making him keep to the tradition of sacrificing their kids to the island.

#175. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 11:42 AM

Contributing to favorite unanswered questions (like the Dharma CARE packages) Who is the Economist? Maybe that was answered, but I don't remember it. I guess we all thought it was Widmore, but that was never clear.

#176. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 11:44 AM

For post 175 - I meant to add to Undauntids replay and August Pauls reply as well. Sorry for the omission.

#177. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 11:47 AM

@176 - August Paul -
The Economist was Mr. Avellino. Sayid killed him on a gholf course. He was later captured by his family to return him to Guam...

#178. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 11:53 AM

@173 Revelation

No, it was sarcasm.

#179. Posted by: Take That, Bitch! at May 6, 2010 11:53 AM

@176 - 178

Wait! The economist was Elsa's boss and Sayid told her he was not an economist, but her boss was on the list that Ben gave Sayid. I assumed the Economist was part of widmores assiation. Avellino was just anothr from Ben's list

@179 - Sarcasm, Ok. Mine question was Rhetorical.

#180. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 12:01 PM

@176 Revelation, Let me first state by way of explanation that I occasionally put my car keys in the refrigerator. Actually, I thought he bumped off Mr. Avellino before meeting Elsa who calls the Economist before they shoot each other, thus making the Economist someone other than Mr. Avellino.

#181. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 12:04 PM

#174. Margot _____ Well, really what the heck else can it be?

They are certainly not just two guys stuck on an island!

How to explain it but through something fantastical... they are either aliens, deities, angels OR Two regular guys on an island who have been mystically transformed into extraordinarily long lived super-beings by the mysterious properties of the island OR Two regular guys on an island who have been mystically transformed into extraordinarily long lived super-beings by God.


#182. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 12:05 PM

@180, 181 Another time warp!

#183. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 12:06 PM

@181 - Mr. Avellino -- You are correct. I need to find my keys now. I'll check the refrigerator!

#184. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 12:06 PM

@178 Revelation misremembered:

>@176 - August Paul -
>The Economist was Mr. Avellino. Sayid killed him on a gholf course. He was later captured by his family to return him to Guam...

Avellino was killed in the EPISODE, The Economist, on a golf course in the Seychelles.

Sayid then went to berlin where he romances Elsa as a means of getting to her boss, who is the econopmist. Elsa and the boss are on to Sayid and she ends up shooting Sayid, but he then kills her.

We never see the economist nor learn hsi name, but presumably since in a later episode Ben says all the people on his list are taken care of and Sayid cab go back to his life, Sayid must have killed the economist at some point.

Lostpedia specifically says, on this point:

"It was speculated by many fans that the first flash-forward scene in this episode on the golf course actually took place after the final scene with Ben and that the man Sayid killed, Mr. Avellino, was in fact the next person on the list. This was however debunked by the producers."

They don't say what, specifically was debunked, but I think they're referring to is when D&C said all the 'flash forward' scenes in a given episode were in chronological order, rather than any specific mention of Avellino.

#185. Posted by: Cecil at May 6, 2010 12:08 PM

@172 by whoever, are you one of us who have received a justly deserved davidrh "AAAAUUUUUGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!?" I have always viewed these as being some sort of initiation rite to this site. Like getting dunked when crossing the equator for the first time.

#186. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 12:17 PM

@166 - As another MIB once said, "Get used to disappointment."

#187. Posted by: Blue at May 6, 2010 12:53 PM

@186

I don't know if I've ever received one, but I find them terribly obnoxious, and also a bit hypocritical since they are no more useful than the posts which elicit such a response.

#188. Posted by: Take That, Bitch! at May 6, 2010 12:55 PM

@187 - Blue
"Get used to disapointment"
Another MIB... Classic - LOL
now if only Jack had a wheel barrel and a holocoust cloak...

#189. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 1:14 PM

Wow, is this season so meh that this board has devolved into being like every other discussion forum on the internet?

Not the recaps, though. Great job, Vacc. Don't forget to let Mac out of the well for next week.

#190. Posted by: LockeBox at May 6, 2010 1:15 PM

@mac #166 wrote >> the ending to BSG was fantastic.... ...a fitting conclusion that made perfect sense within the context of the entire series.

I'm 100 percent in agreement about BSG - I found the series finale to be a satisfying conclusion to an awesome series.

That said, I believe LOST is a completely different animal in that (at least for me) BSG didn't have us going into the final weeks brimming with dozens of unanswered questions. Also, LOST fans have been led to believe that many of the questions that may go unanswered were of great significance to the story - such as the importance of Walt, and Aaron. I'm okay if not every question get answered - like the food drops. But there are some that must be answered, or else Annie Wilkes might hobble Team Darlton and force them to write a season 7.

#191. Posted by: vacc at May 6, 2010 1:22 PM

All this speculation of the Alt world being the "real" one and the Island being the big bad dream makes me feel so incredibly sad. All the excitement of all the Island adventures, trials, tribulations... all being reduced to the tedium of everyday life that we all slog through everyday. Such a downer.

This whole "let's teach mankind a lesson thing"... I don't know, reminds me of so many episodes of Star Trek, TNG, Voyager, and DS9. Just on a bigger budget. I'll just crap if the whole thing ends in a trial being judged by "those of higher conciousness"

One burning question I would like to see answered is why does the island have to move, (and why does it have a device - (FDW) - to do it)? And Eloise's big ole lethal swinging pendulum thingy to find the darn thing when it disappears from (who's?) radar....

AAAAARRRRGGGGG

#192. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 1:32 PM

What's up with the comments this week? I feel like I don't know you guys anymore?! What's with the spam and public messages of a private nature? What's up with the new, inappropriate nicknames?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "where my homies at?"

Shikotee, my brother from another mother, only 1 post?

I'm just not feelin' the love this week. It feels weird to tell you the truth.

Now, just to stay on the topic of Lost, I'll throw in that I really enjoyed the epi. and can't wait to rewatch.

#193. Posted by: Skipper at May 6, 2010 1:33 PM

#193 - Skipper

I'm so with you on this.

I truly am missing the old regulars that twist my brain in ways I didn't think possible ;(

#194. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 1:43 PM

@192 - Tweedle Dee -
"All this speculation of the Alt world being the "real" one and the Island being the big bad dream makes me feel so incredibly sad."

I know this will get me in trouble, but what the heck-

Be not sad for all our posturing is merely speculation. There is still four hours of cannon to come that will tell us what we are meant to know.

I know this will get me in trouble, but what the heck-

IMO it is not a bad dream. With everything combined postulated, and revealed in the show, remember the major themes. and note other then Eloise and Ben, there was an other who sacrificed their only son for the salvation of mankind. There may yet be a bigger role for the island timeline...

(Had to throw that in for the National Day of Preyor in U.S.)

Just putting it out there, or maybe I'm really just Tweedle-Dum

#195. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 1:51 PM

@41: welh
I don't know how much of a critique on parental instincts this truly is. Their baby was in the hands of gran-ma-ma, so the "go so you can take care of the baby" argument doesn't really work for me. Well, not that much. Don't get me wrong. It is a powerful argument. Yet, in the cages they discuss that the baby is with the grandma.

The sentimentality of the notion is there, particularly when Sun does tell Jin to go. Sun's "parental instincts" are for Jin to go. Her wishes are for him to survive for his own sake if not for the baby's are there as well. Yet still, she is relieved that he chose to stay.

You have to remember that Jin has never seen Ji-Yeon. For Jin the baby is a picture, but Sun is his reality. I'm ok with his choice to stay with Sun. His thoughts are not for a child he has never seen, but rather for a wife he has not seen in three years who is right there.

I'm not sure if I'm verbalizing this well, but do you follow what I mean?

@83 Plain Simple: AltCooper and the kidney con.
I don't think AltCooper was planning a kidney con at all. I think the plane ride was really nothing more than a face-value father/son bonding. I think our views of Island world, where cons and skepticism run rampant, might be skewing your judgment on that one (since Cooper is bad in IslnadWorld, he must be bad in Altiverse).


Re the C4. I believe the Alpert Trio planted that C4 on the plane as their effort to prevent the plane (and therefore MiB) from leaving the island. I think that they got caught, and Widmore was "interviewing" them when the great sub escape occurred. Flocke had his own C4 stash and needed the timer, which is why he snagged the watch before going into the plane.

MiB is an evil being that's lived for hundreds or thousands of years. He's not stupid. I think he planned to tell everyone that the plane wouldn't fly anyway to get them all into the sub, a closed confined space, and probably left the plane still wired just in case they tried to leave that way. Covers both bases.

Interesting juxtaposition with Claire. On island she has the major abandonment issues (3 years with squirrel skull baby), ditched in the woods, and then again at the sub. AltiVerse, FugiKate comes back for her to take her to hospital so she won't be alone there, and then Jack welcomes her to stay with him as she's "family".

Can't wait for next week to find out what exactly this whole game is, what the rules are, and what the "prize" is for "winning" it.

#196. Posted by: Gumbo at May 6, 2010 1:53 PM

#195 - Revelation

"Be not sad for all our posturing is merely speculation."

Now this is where I miss the old posters, they postulated so well alot of the next episode and some of the "answers" have not come as a surpise.

"There may yet be a bigger role for the island timeline..."

Yeah, an eternity of red shirts...

#197. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 2:10 PM

@196: Gumbo

The net critics on the parenting question are about 50-50, for and against, Jin's decision to stay.

If Richard and Ben had stable Dharma C4, they would have had Ilana's crew go get that instead of the Black Rock dynamite.

#198. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 2:12 PM

If Flock needs all of the candidates to die in order for him to leave the Island, then why didn't he just let Widmore's mortar bombs kill the candidates? Remember when Zoe came over to the camp and threatened to bomb the camp if Flock didn't return Desmond? Why didn't Flock just let her bomb the camp? He had all the candidates there except for Jin (and Jin might not even be a candidate - he had Sun which gave him a 50/50 chance of possibly having ALL the candidates in one place at the same time).

#199. Posted by: Skipper at May 6, 2010 2:15 PM

@197 - Tweedle-Dee

"Now this is where I miss the old posters, they postulated so well alot of the next episode and some of the "answers" have not come as a surpise."

I can appreciate your feelings here. I have been reading this blog for the last three years, and only recently built up the nerve to post. I know I can never be as insightful as some of the regulars that I have read in the past, but I am putting all I have out there for ridicule. I guess I just got it. I will try do better in the short time we have left together. I will try not to hog the blog as I have been.

#200. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 2:19 PM

@188 someone said

>I don't know if I've ever received one, but I find them terribly obnoxious, also a bit hypocritical since they are no more useful than the posts which elicit such a response.

Only for the risablilty impaired.

#201. Posted by: Cecil at May 6, 2010 2:23 PM


. . gulp . . .

I'm actually a really nice guy . .

really.

however, I think I know one person I'm taking off my "loving scream" list . .

not to mention the invitation list to the MUD HOLE GROUP WAGGLE . .

#202. Posted by: davidrh at May 6, 2010 2:27 PM

Revelation, post all and as much as you want. I've enjoyed reading them and find them insightful. As, I'm sure, do the majority fo the folks here. The blog is and unlimited source. As long as you're on topic, post a million of them.

And we've got other blogs for off-topic general posting, s well. Don't know how well attended they'll be after them main reasin for coming here [-sniff-] goes away, but I for one would love to keep as many of the community together as choose to indefinitel.

And after all, we'll probably still be debating the meaning of the finale for a year at least.

#203. Posted by: Cecil at May 6, 2010 2:31 PM

@202 - Davidrh

I always found the "AAAAUUUUUGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!?" a very funny reference to the Charlie Brown/Lucy Football scenario.
I guess I missed something else!

#204. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 2:32 PM

#201 - Cecil

(I actually had to look that one up)

LOL

(I'm so sorry, "risibilty", couldn't help myself)

#205. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 2:34 PM

@192. tweedle_dee, @195 Revelation

For the first five seasons, the island world could have been classified either as a) real, b) real people in a different realm, c) the after life, or d) something else (dreams, mind control).

By adding the sideways story arc, as its own contained and separate universe, the classification of the island world to the final story resolution has multiplied the confusion. There is now at least 16 possible explanations of the saga (example, island world is (d) mind control in the sideways (a) real world; or island world is (c) after life test of redemption to pass on to (a)/(c) a "new life" in the sideways world.)


#206. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 2:34 PM

Perhaps, heresy alert, if the candidates had played nice and let Flocke on the boat, he would have taken back his C4 and disarmed it and they would all have sailed off to meet their destiny.

Anyone got a bridge to sell?

#207. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 2:35 PM

Thank you for your kind words. I am humbled.

#208. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 2:35 PM

#206 - welh

With regard to option d)

On the original 815 flight:

The air marshal fired a ceramic bullet (a scuffle with Kate or something) which hit the battery of Locke's wheelchair releasing toxic fumes which mixed with the industrial carpet cleaner they use for cleaning the carpets in airplanes inducing a state of "la la land" and now they are all players in a whopper of a really wild "trip"...

...well it's possible isn't it?!?

isn't it?

#209. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 3:11 PM

@209
oh, I could go through an old stack of alternative theories from years past like that:

815 flies through EM which causes all sleeping passengers to have a collective dream/nightmare; and they "die" on the island by "waking up."

#210. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 3:19 PM

#188. poster: I can see where it might appear obnoxious when read here are there as an isolated post. But for the people who read every single post and see the same "I haven't read all the posts, but..." and also read the same question several times, as well as the answer to that question or the same observation a half dozen times.... "arghhhhhhhhhhhh" is actually pretty funny. As I said, what is important is to know that it is not mean spirited.

#211. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 3:30 PM

#202. Posted by: davidrh
. . gulp . . .
I'm actually a really nice guy . .
really.
==========
Isn't that what the serial murderer/rapist says on "Criminal Minds" just after they cuff him.

#212. Posted by: Know-A-Fence at May 6, 2010 3:35 PM

Thanks Friends.

#213. Posted by: davidrh at May 6, 2010 3:37 PM

#210

Oh Mr. welh, I like that one.

Now that's a whole other dilemma, the EM quandry. Typically in other shows it has been used as a devise to jump to alternate universes. So if Widmore is "amped" on getting this thing to work then he is in knowlege of an Alt uni. If that's the case, which one of the universes is he trying to "jump" to, or who is he wanting to "jump" where to do what?

#214. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 3:44 PM

@198 welh: If Richard and Ben had stable Dharma C4, they would have had Ilana's crew go get that instead of the Black Rock dynamite.

Fair enough...forgot about that

#215. Posted by: Gumbo at May 6, 2010 3:44 PM

HEY davidrh, you can "arghhhhhhhhhhhh" at me any ol' time, as long as I get the invitation...

#216. Posted by: sandivon at May 6, 2010 3:53 PM

Long time lurker and first time poster,
Think we’re being set up for Jack being the chosen one. Not sure who’ll be sitting next to Flocke (MIB) on the final beach scene but keep hearing whispers of the following exchange.

Flocke: do you know how much I want to kill you?
Winning candidate: Dude, chill. Care for a bucket of chicken?

#217. Posted by: Dharmaville at May 6, 2010 3:59 PM

Shikotee where are you? I miss your posts.

#218. Posted by: Jack at May 6, 2010 4:02 PM

@214 tweedle_dee

If this season's premise is multi-universes, then there still is no point for Widmore to change one to affect the other. He is super rich in the island universe, and he is super rich in the sideways universe.

#219. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 4:03 PM

@219 myself

The analogy would be ordering two sunny side up eggs (universes), but the cook decides to scramble them instead. I don't want scrambled eggs!!

#220. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 4:06 PM

@217. Dharmaville

I had a different take earlier in the day. Click on name to see.

#221. Posted by: welh at May 6, 2010 4:10 PM

#219 Mr. welh

Widmore's purpose I don't think, is to become super super rich. Super rich leads to super boredom for an overachiever which gives him the money and resources to dabble in all things LOST, and at this time, that EM thing and his obsession with it is still a mystery. no?

#222. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 4:21 PM

@ 221 welh

My bad, but confess to not reading through all the posts. Solidarity here for sure and welh, ya da man. Nice graphic!!!

#223. Posted by: Dhamaville at May 6, 2010 4:21 PM

My apologies to all Sci-Fi fans.

Just got to thinking that an "EM field" is also frequently used to keep things in, or keep things out. (my faux pas...)

So it still begs the question, What is Widmore's ultimate purpose for the home-made Stargate looking thing that buzzes or chars people but leaves bunnies alone?

#224. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 4:30 PM

I don't think it is more money that Widmore is after. More like power. And not the power of owning megacorporations. Maybe it is the power over life and death. Maybe it is the healing powers of the island. Maybe he wants eternal life like Richard. Maybe he just wants to be left alone like Greta Garbo. Maybe he wants to be the next Jacob and not having been anointed figures what the heck, he'll just grab it.

#225. Posted by: August Paul at May 6, 2010 4:41 PM

I see Charles Widmore as a means to an end. He has delivered Desmond back to the island. His entire purpose from the time he is banished, has been to bring Desmond to the island.
First he drives Desmond to prove himself which puts him in a sailing contest, which is facilitated by Libby's boat. and Desmond ends up on the island.;
Desmond gets off the island, and as soon as Charles gets a fix on his location, he kidnaps him from the hospital, and brings him back to the island.

I still say that Desmond is the "one who saves them all"! Charles' purpose is to make sure Desmond is there to do it.

I still don't understand why Charles was not on ben's list, or maybe it wasn't Ben's list

#226. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 5:00 PM

The guy in Time Square who tried to blow up the car should of taken some advice from Flocke. Flocke is a better terrorist than that guy. HA!

#227. Posted by: LostIsFound at May 6, 2010 5:02 PM

I've mentioned this once before, but have never seen it discussed...

the fact that LOST has always been used in all caps makes me think it is an acronym. For what, I don't know. T could be time.

#228. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 6, 2010 5:17 PM

Land
Of
Stolen
Time

MMMmmWwwwaaaaHAHahah (evil laugh).

#229. Posted by: Skipper at May 6, 2010 5:32 PM

I was thinking along the same lines
Land
Of
Simultaneous
Timelines

#230. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 5:42 PM

How about
Loosing Ones Sanity Totally
OR
Living On Satan's Turf
or even
Last One Standing Triumphs

#231. Posted by: Revelation at May 6, 2010 5:48 PM

Living
Out
Sins of
Time

#232. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 5:51 PM

welh & tweedle_dee: ___ I've always figured Widmore wants that island for power, not money. But if he did want it for money, skipping forward in time a few days would permit some excellent investment opportunities.

Revelation: Living On Satan's Turf!

#233. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 6:32 PM

Why did the chicken cross the road?

To get away from the bomb carrying Sayid.
--------------
What did the chicken say when Sayid exploded all over the road?

Tastes like Ilana.

#234. Posted by: Oh Blivious at May 6, 2010 6:39 PM

Limitless
Other
Stinkin
Timelines

#235. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at May 6, 2010 7:04 PM

@206/welh: "For the first five seasons, the island world could have been classified either as a) real, b) real people in a different realm, c) the after life, or d) something else (dreams, mind control)."

While you know I am with you on MIB as a symbol of death, I think you can safely remove options c and d from your list of possibilities.

TPTB have been so adamant for so long about rejecting both options that they would lose all credibility to pull either of those rabbits out of the hat at the end of the series.

As viewers, we get hung up on the mythology of the show. But as the creative force behind the series, Darlton views the show as primarily about the characters and their arc of redemption.

Having the characters already dead, or in some sort of Bob Newhart-Bobby Ewing extended dream sequence destroys the reality of everything that has occurred over the first five seasons.

The events of the first five seasons were actual "real" events in the Lost universe. IMO, any theory on the ending has to accomodate that statement and not dilute the viewer and character investment in what has already happened.


@233/undauntid: "I've always figured Widmore wants that island for power, not money."

I agree- the whole "Dr. Linus" episode between Ben and the school principal is a stand-in for what happened on the island between Ben and Widmore- except that on island, Ben went through with the extortion, exiled Widmore and ultimately sacrificed Alex.

MIB manipulates people by offering what they want most- Doc Jensen keeps speculating immortality for Widmore, but I think it is control and domination over the island.

I posted @140 my speculation around Widmore as MIB minion. If not, with the sonic fences off, couldn't MIB as Smokey have easily killed Widmore and his entire group during the bear cage scene?

#236. Posted by: Mizzed at May 6, 2010 7:24 PM

Glad I could share the pics and that they were enjoyed!

@169/August Paul: It's a private tour company (KOS Tours), so there is no access to the Diamond Head Studios, but they do have exclusive rights to take TV/Movie location tours to many of the Lost filming locations (like Jughead, the sub piers, Hurley's golf course, and also locations for movies like Jurassic Park, Godzilla, Pearl Harbor, 50 First Dates, You, Me & Dupree, Karate Kid II...). Other locations are on public land/visible from public roads, and several companies offer tours to those sites.

@141/sweetpea: There are different tours that go to different locations. You need at least two tours (day and a half) to hit most things. Even then a lot of the Honolulu sites are skipped or glossed over. Tours are not cheap, they range from $100 to $200 per person.

#237. Posted by: FenwayBen at May 6, 2010 7:50 PM

#236.Mizzed: I too am leaning in the direction of Widmore as MIB minion, so your observation that: "...with the sonic fences off, couldn't MIB as Smokey have easily killed Widmore and his entire group during the bear cage scene?" is ver interesting.

And I have to answer, "Why yes, Mizzed you are correct about that!"

Widmore is Flocke's minion (WIFM)

#238. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 7:56 PM

I REALLY want to know why all the women died while pregnant. I don't see even a hint of this being divulged. It was so crucial for a while and now it's been dropped. ideas?

#239. Posted by: OtherKate at May 6, 2010 8:01 PM

#235 Scooby-Dude

LMSAO

snort snort

#240. Posted by: tweedle_dee at May 6, 2010 8:06 PM


That Widmore is Flocke’s minion
Is only my opinion.
Flocke’s payment is tendered
For services rendered
In Widmore’s island dominion.

#241. Posted by: undauntid at May 6, 2010 8:15 PM

@Mizzed #140 - that's an interesting observation about all the car crashes. I had been wondering if we are going to see Juliet again in the alt-timeline. Your post reminded me about how her meanie husband was hit by a bus enabling her to go to the island initially.

#242. Posted by: jane at May 6, 2010 8:23 PM

Lots
Of
Silly
Theories

#243. Posted by: dk at May 7, 2010 12:08 AM

I think Sawyer is inadvertently responsible for the death of Sayid, the Kwons and Lapidus. Now that he's getting over his control issues, Jack is quickly figuring out the rules. MIB couldn't strap an armed bomb to his back. While Flocke could give him a bomb that appeared to be armed, someone else had to actually arm it, which is what Sawyer did. However, Jack also gets some blame for putting on a backpack that Flocke handed him without looking in it first. That's way to much trust to have in him.

I'm guessing that Flocke realizes that Desmond is still alive, assuming that is why he can't leave the island. Desmond is some sort of constant who, as long as he is on the island, maintains balance. Can MIB convice Claire to kill Desmond?

This may give Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley some advantage as MIB may not be expecting them.

The following is pure speculation about what might happen next, which I don't think would qualify as spoilers, but just in case that's my warning...

There will likely be a race to the well (even if Flocke and Jack aren't aware of what the other is doing). MIB and possibly Claire will be on their way, as will Jack and possibly others.

This all sounds like it could get very complicated. As noted by many, Kate will be used to Flocke's advantage to manipulate the rest. Jack is starting to see the bigger picture and might even be willing to sacrifice lives to ensure that MIB's attempt to leave the island is thwarted. However, Sawyer is out of touch and a loose canon, so he might be more easily manipulated. Hurley has a little more going on upstairs than Sawyer, seeing dead people and what not, but he's also a softy who can be manipulated.

Whereas Smokey can kill or threaten Kate, Claire, who has a rifle, can be manipulated to kill Sawyer, Hurley and/or Jack. Sawyer would seem to be pretty high on that list, given that Claire saw him closing the hatch. Claire probably won't be able to kill Jack though, given their bond.

Curve balls will be coming from Widmore, Richard, Ben, Miles and Lapidus (if we're lucky).

I can see it getting down to everyone on the island beign dead except for Flocke and Jack, at which point it would seem like the cycle would start itself over with Jack as the new Jacob. It will be tough to see Sawyer, Kate and Hurley all get wacked. I see Sawyer and Jack making their peace, possibly Sawyer will have a vision at the time of his demise and he will realize that Jack is Neo.

Perhaps the redemption will come in the merging of the altverse with the real universe. Possibly the dead will live again. All part of Jacob's master plan. Maybe this has all played out before and maybe it will again.

I have to imagine that Eloise Hawking will be instrumental. We know she believes Desmond is a bit ahead of schedule with his realizations about the island. Somewhat like Desmond, she seems to be aware of both of her existences. I assume she will know when the time is right to take action to merge the two parallel worlds.

As to how this plays out, it is very difficult to imagine at this point. Getting everyone on a plane seems like a real stretch and over used. However, the way they all keep bumping into one another, it may be possible for all to come together in the same place at the same time. Desmond seems to be a very good people herder. Maybe Daniel Faraday will set off a nuclear bomb or something when everyone is together in the altverse and it will merge the two worlds.

That would make for a great ending ... Suffer through watching Sawyer, Hurley and Kate die (and everybody else for that matter, except for Flocke and Jack) ... Desmond gathers everybody up in the altverse and Daniel sets of a nuke ... Everyone is alive and happy again, unaware of what happened but somehow better off in a new third universe that represents a merging of the two (Jack doesn't have control issues, Hurley is with Libby, you name it) ... and Jacob is back chillin on the island with one pissed off MIB, getting ready to start over.

Sorry, that should have been it but one more thought. I wonder if Jack will kill Flocke. There has been much to do about how to kill Flocke and Jacob and it seems like there is a particular dagger that has made more than one appearance as the intended murder weapon over the season, what Ricardo took to kill Jacob and Sayid took to kill Flocke. Maybe Jack will have the opportunity to plunge that sucker into MIB's heart right as the folks in the altverse merge.

Adios! This has been a great blog for a great show!

#244. Posted by: Mike at May 7, 2010 1:33 AM

#237. FenwayBen
Thanks. I would have thought it would cost a lot more. Thanks for sharing.

244. Mike
This has been a great blog. I wish you would all blog on the Fringe site. Man the show ended good tonight!

#245. Posted by: Christina at May 7, 2010 1:42 AM

Yes, ya'll come on over to Fringe.

Tonight's ep seemed like filler when the mystery turned out to have a mundane explanation, then right at the end they hit us with the big one.

And may I point out that I called the double elimination in Survivor earlier today? I'm betting they really intended to finish on the 23rd, until they found out LOST was having its finale that night and did some hasty editing.

#246. Posted by: Cecil at May 7, 2010 2:39 AM

Just watched the latest Lost video podcast...and at the beginning Kris White mentions that the finale has been extended to 2 and 1/2 hours!!!

That's awesome. So there are 4 and 1/2 hours total left of the series.

#247. Posted by: JoePike at May 7, 2010 8:31 AM

So, why did Desmond have to run over Locke? He didn't kill him and except for being a little sore, Locke is just the same. So, what was the point? I think if Desmond wanted to send Locke to the hospital he could have done something less extreme than running over him.

#248. Posted by: Not Zero at May 7, 2010 8:54 AM

@248. Posted by: Not Zero

"So, what was the point? "

IMO - Desmond was trying to kill Locke. How do hit someone wioth a car in such a way as to only hurt them.

Besides they took artistic liberties with the medical situation. Locke was wheelchair bound for some time and his muscles would have atrophied by now. The impact of Desmonds car would have shattered legs, hip, ribs, scull, arms... I did not see a cast on any part of Lockes body.

If we can excuse this inconsistancy... whell we will believe anything.

#249. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 9:22 AM

@249. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 9:22 AM

Besides they took artistic liberties with the medical situation. Locke was wheelchair bound for some time and his muscles would have atrophied by now

funny thing is that it is actually more believable that he could survive being hit by a car without serious injury than that he could jump up immediately after the 815 crash and run and yet i don't think i have ever seen anyone here question that (i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong) i do realize he was taking physio daily but there is more to walking/running than that...balance for instance.

that being said, i think desmond's intention was a near-death experience like charlie gave him, and judging from locke's mumbling about the button etc, i think it worked. Which leads me to wonder it there might be some leakage at a critical moment that will affect Flocke's actions.

#250. Posted by: surefoot at May 7, 2010 9:50 AM

@250. Posted by: surefoot

I totally agree with you that is more believable that Locke survived the accident without serious injurty then his immediate rehab after the 815 crash. my point was that there are inconsistancies with what we know real life to hold for us. Locke should have broken bones in that impact, but in LOST he did not, and I am Ok with that specifically because I don't expect "Real" life consequences to actions on LOST.
Perhaps Desmond knows he cannot kill Locke and your last lines about the near death conciousness leakage is really cool!!!

#251. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 10:25 AM

So if we had to define "What is the Island"? based on the events of this year...

Scientifically, the island is a "hatch" or containment zone for massive EMF that if released into the world would destroy it. This hatch must be monitored by an observer (Jacob, candidate) at all times- otherwise, if "the button is not pushed", it's end of the world time.

Spiritually, the EMF has taken a human manifestation or avatar, the MIB, who can be viewed as a god of evil or death. The island is a prison designed to prevent that god from bringing death and chaos into the world. The prisoner is guarded by another spiritual avatar or god (Jacob, final candidate), whose purpose is to protect humanity from destruction.

From the POV of the two gods or avatars, the island is a game board, and the humans they manipulate to achieve their strategic ends the game pieces.

From the POV of the "game pieces", the humans brought to the island, the island is an allegory for purgatory, a way station between their old, previously "unaware" lives and their future rebirth into an elightened, aware life where they find dharma (using the definition of following in the righteous path to ultimate reality).

So my question to the group is: do you agree with that description, and if so, will you be satisfied if nothing more is revealed about the island than what we already know?

#252. Posted by: Mizzed at May 7, 2010 10:39 AM

@244:
The dagger didn't work for Sayid, presumably because he let Flocke talk to him, so it shouldn't work for Jack either. Has anyone not let him talk to them? I think I recall someone mentioning Miles?

Re: Locke's immediate rehab after the 815 crash, wasn't it the island that healed him? And made him a believer in the first place.

#253. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 7, 2010 10:55 AM

surefoot: __ The island "healed" John Locke. Doesn't make much sense that his paralysis would be healed and the atrophy of his muscles would not be healed. I always assumed his physical healing was total.

Thinking about that just now...I was also going to point out that all the non-fatal wounds heal quickly on island, when it occurred to me that Locke's facial woumds from the crash sure took a long time to heal and the scars (over and under his right eye) are still visible.

What does it mean? I dunno. Probably doesn't mean a damn thing.

#254. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 10:55 AM

@252./Mizzed

I would agree with the Jacobian description of the island, but "why" needs to be explained and confirmed.

Why is there an EM breach? (Is this the portal between the parallel universes that needs to be capped?)

Why are humans brought to the island if the EM science is beyond their knowledge and technological skills? (Are tasty human souls the real food for Smokey?)

Why would the guardians treat their island mission (holding back the breach) as a game?

#255. Posted by: welh at May 7, 2010 10:59 AM

@252. Mizzed: "the island"

Agree, but not satisfactory, because it doesn't explain fate, and "the Island isn't done with you yet." I would need some sort of explanation of that rule. An example of such a rule, though not the one I expect to see, would be: the island or its guardians were sent back in time, and whatever happened happened.

#256. Posted by: LockeBox at May 7, 2010 11:00 AM

236:Mizzed
If not, with the sonic fences off, couldn't MIB as Smokey have easily killed Widmore and his entire group during the bear cage scene?
I wondered about that, too and also wondered why when Widmore's gang came to ask for Desmond back why they weren't all just "Smokied" right there. Certainly would have weakened Widmore's position

I have never seen an AAAARGGGG that I didn't like and have been on this site (in one form or another) almost since the beginning. Love it! Really miss certain posters though.

Looking forward to the MUD HOLE GROUP WAGGLE almost as much as the finale.

Have a "blog" question that I've wanted an answer to for years. How did Crispy Seaplanes get his moniker? I have numerous theories about that but they are all too stupid to post :)

#257. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 7, 2010 11:01 AM

He explained it in a blog entry a short time ago. It's clever and mundane at the same time.

I won't spoil his fun by explaining it further - I'll let him if he wishes.

#258. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 7, 2010 11:06 AM

252 Mizzed: Very well put. That sums it up quite nicely.

244 Mike: great and plausible predictions.

Not sure if it is a red herring, but Ji-Soo Kwon (actor that plays Jin), when asked in a recent interview whether it was Jin or Sun that was the candidate, said something like "remember that there are three Kwons". He also suggested that Sun and Jin's daughter would play a role in the final episode. Red Herring, plot spoiler or neither?

#259. Posted by: Paul_C at May 7, 2010 11:12 AM

#257. Posted by: Kompletely Lost

Sadly (like many of the Lost mysteries) the answer is not as interesting as the mystery and your theories are probably less stupid than the real explanation.
On the etiquette and general goodness blog I expressed an interest in keeping in touch with anyone from here who cares to and an open invitation to anyone interested to "friend" me on Facebook. Over on that site I can be found under my real name--Chris Plane
(Chris P., C. Plane)
grooooan! :)
So there you have it--just doing my humble part to ensure that everyone gets as many answers to their Lost burning questions as possible!
(And my invitation to any and all who might want to keep in touch stands indefinitely. I'll greatly miss this forum when Lost goes away...though I have a feeling there will be much to discuss for a loong time following the show's finale!)
And don't forget to grab a box of everyone's favorite Dharma breakfast cereal, Crispy Seaplanes, on your next trip to your local grocer!

#260. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 7, 2010 11:15 AM

Glad to hear you weren't the pilot/passenger of a burning seaplane on a fishing trip in Alaska. Thanx for the answer (can't believe I missed it on the blob ... I read EVERYTHING ... but forget most of it quickly apparently)

SPOILER (MAYBE)

Just went on ABC.com and saw the preview for next Tues. They have 2 boys one blonde, one dark haired but similar looking and they are hunting on the island. There are men hunting too but you only see their clothes. Can't place the outfits ... almost Vicking or Roman-like? Or did Egyptians dress like that?

#261. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 7, 2010 11:28 AM

@259 Posted by Paul C-
" "remember that there are three Kwons"."

Also remember that Claire's paternal name is Sheapard. Aaron is only part Sheapard

#262. Posted by: Revalation at May 7, 2010 11:29 AM

#262
You were always such a good speller (unlike me) It's Shepard isn't it? And you spelled your own name wrong. This time there is an "a" in Revelation
Hmmmm
Been watching Lost for two long ... everything is suspect

#263. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 7, 2010 11:35 AM

@263 - Komletely Lost -
Yes you are correct!!! I am hitting the "a" key by mistake.

I need to stop hitting the liquor cabinet before typing!!!!

#264. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 11:41 AM

I mispelled your screen name . sorry - Iam now Kompletely Lost!!!

#265. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 11:43 AM

I have had to change monikers more than once on this blog over the years because others or Others started posting under that name so I guess I am a little leery. Dopey me
Save some liquor for the Mud Hole Group Waggle!

#266. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 7, 2010 11:44 AM

#252. Posted by: Mizzed : "So my question to the group is: do you agree with that description, and if so, will you be satisfied if nothing more is revealed about the island than what we already know?"

___ Do I agree? What came first, the chicken or the egg? If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that someone has always monitored the island.

I do not agree. The island is a cork, the purpose of which is to contain malevolence. I think Jacob and/or MIB did something (as children) to bring about a momentary dislodging of that cork and whatever they did caused MIB to become Smokey. Once MIB became Smokey, it was necessary for Jacob to remain on island to assure that the cork was not dislodged again and to monitor MIB.

That came to me a couple of episodes ago when MIB whined to somebody that Jacob had deprived him of his body. At that time I wondered if (as children) Jacob had either pushed or cajoled MIB into one of the em pockets.

Will I be satisfied if nothing more than what we know now is revealed about the island? Well, no. But that is moot because I am certain more will be revealed.

I don't need to understand the physics of it all, I just need to know the nature of what it is and I am confident that will be revealed.

#267. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 11:58 AM

although, now that I think about it, if Jacob and MIB are twins, perhpas their mother was monitoring things before MIB's unfortunate accident.

#268. Posted by: unduantid at May 7, 2010 12:12 PM

Great job, vacc!

#269. Posted by: James at May 7, 2010 12:15 PM

I want as much as I can get about everything we have been exposed to on LOST.
Why do pregnant woman die?
Why can MIB not be killed if he speaks to you, but Jacob can?
What did Jacb do to Richard?
If Malevolence is like wine in a bottle, does get better with age?
What gives the island healing powers?
Why does light disperse differently on the island?
Why does the island move around?
Why can't the island be found easily on a standard map?
Who cuts Bens hair?

These things need to be addressed!

#270. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 12:16 PM

Technical issue from a scuba course I took: when bringing an unconscious person to the surface, you have to plug their nose. Also, they won't be able to breathe from the air tank. So I don't get how Jack brought Sawyer up to the surface successfully. (That said, I'm happy to suspend belief in the interest of the plot).

#271. Posted by: ebk at May 7, 2010 12:37 PM

>Why do pregnant woman die?

Hyperactive immune system thinks fetus is a foreign invader.

>Why can MIB not be killed if he speaks to you, but Jacob can?

Because he's very persuasive and will talk you out of it. Jacob could too, but he's too proud to. You should want not to kill him without being told.


>What did Jacob do to Richard?

Sent already hyperactive immmune system into overdrive, now it even rejects age-related changes.


>If Malevolence is like wine in a bottle, does it get better with age?

Nah, it's more like beer, and just gets skunky. Which wouldn't stop Sawyer, of course, from enjoying it.


>What gives the island healing powers?

You know how all those new-agers believe in sleeping under magnets? Well, the island is this super-dooper magnet, see and...


>Why does light disperse differently on the island?

Strong mangnetic field warps even light.


>Why does the island move around?

It just stands still while the earth moves.


>Why can't the island be found easily on a standard map?

Rand-McNally refuses to print new maps every time the island moves.


>Who cuts Bens hair?

No one. Ben is living backwards in time and his hair grows shorter and has to be pulled back out, periodically. It's a painful process, and has soured his disposition.

QED

#272. Posted by: Cecil at May 7, 2010 12:40 PM

I've been trying to keep it simple lately, because my head is spinning for this last season of LOST, LOL!

I've decided (for now) this, based on theories others have posited, and my own ideas:

The Sideways story is, in essence, the show's epilogue. Please, let these tortured island people live happily! An alive Sayid, even if he's not reunited with his love, would please me greatly! + alive Libby, Charlie, and others!

I'm not 100% sure that the last scene of LOST is going to be Jack and [insert name here] sitting on the beach like the "new" Jacob and MIB. I think that's too easy.

I'm betting Jack decides to end the games once and for all .... and he is the one who "sinks" the island. And somehow, he destroys the island timeline and everyone ends up happily ever after in Sideways world.

And .... I've been trying to see how the writers are going to tie up the whole visual motif of THE EYE OPENING. I'm wondering if it a metaphor for being awake/aware/present/conscious. And the only thing seemingly MISSING from from Sideways World is ..... consciousness of the island. (At least for Jack --- he's *almost* got it!!)

#273. Posted by: DC-Matt at May 7, 2010 1:03 PM

Thanks Vacc for the fill in review!

#136. Posted by: FenwayBen
And thanks FenwyaBen! What a treat! You have made me aware if the magic that the show's people do each week. Lucky Ben.

#274. Posted by: berkyo at May 7, 2010 1:17 PM

@272. Posted by: Cecil

I like it.

The island stands still... great point!! but if so, could we just stay in one place, off the surface, and let the island come to us?

With ya on most of it, like the magnets and the skunky beer, but when John was stabbed, he had only said a few words, and none of them were persuasive. Jacob was much more persuasive and he was stabbed and "Died".

@271 - ebk wrote: "So I don't get how Jack brought Sawyer up to the surface successfully. "

Jack used the egress tank and gave Sawyer buddy breathing all the way up. Not the most pretty picture, but it could work as long as Jack's buddy breathing is more powerfull then the pressure on Sawyers lungs.

#275. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 1:27 PM

#193. Posted by: Skipper
This is why I am back to being a lurker. It's not so bad from out here.

#276. Posted by: berkyo at May 7, 2010 1:37 PM

@193 Skipper & @276 berkyo

Please try to change the tone on the blog. Participate and make it the forum it was when you wanted to participate.

I, along a few others, continue to try, but I am not as insightfull as many of those are now sitting out. I am trying to make a difference and I need your help as well as your insight.

#277. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 1:46 PM

#260. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes


So . . . . WHICH Chris Plane? There are only 247 of you on Facebook!


I'm guessing Manchester, England, but not sure. (It's the only one that comes up on "Christopher")

#278. Posted by: davidrh at May 7, 2010 2:03 PM

Why are the two worlds time shifted?
The sideways world is set in 2004.
The island world is currently in 2007.

If a single universe, looping on itself:

How could sideways Desmond, Charlie or Faraday "pull" memories from the island future, if their present was already changed in past?

If parallel universes:

How could sideways Desmond, Charlie or Faraday "pull" memories from the island future, when there is no "overlap" in both worlds to act as a portal? (the island in sideways 2004 is underwater, so no of the 815ers are there to start any process of change).

#279. Posted by: welh at May 7, 2010 2:28 PM

@279. Posted by: welh

In other words What Happened in one , Did Not Happen in the other. It is relative. Do you Remember the Langoliers?

#280. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 2:43 PM

Two "sneak peeks" up on the ABC LOST site. One with Alison Janney playing some kind of "medicine woman" to a young Rousseau. And the second with two young boys chasing a wild pig and meeting with some very strangely dressed hunters.

My imagination is peaked!

Only 102+ hours away!

#281. Posted by: davidrh at May 7, 2010 2:51 PM

After seeing the sneak peeks I went back to Ab Eterno. I was looking at Ab Eterno again, and the exchange between Jacob and Richard on the beach is very interesting.

1. Jacob asked richard what MIB told him. Richard responds: "That you are the Devil". Jacob not only does not deny it, he looks at richard increduously and says... And?

2. Richard goes on to tell Jacob that he knows that he is in Hell, and Jacob does not dispute it. but he makes a point to dispute Richard's assertion that he is already dead.

Interesting. If, as MIB claims, "The Devil betrayed me. He took my body. My humanity" is a true statement. Then the MIB we see is the little blonde boy before Jacob took his body. and MIB is left with what he has. Furthermore, if this is true, then when Flocke see's the little blonde boy, MIB is looking at his own body. If this is all true, then Jacob is Satan, and thats why Flock/MIB is scared of the blonde boy. He wants to kill Jacob so he can go home. With Satan gone, he can leave, because he no longer needs to stand as the sentinel.

#282. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 3:09 PM

#280. Revelation
I commented weeks ago that this reminded me of the Langoliers...and you are the FIRST person to notice it with me! THANK YOU I guess me and you are either the bright ones or the stupid ones....hum :)

#283. Posted by: Langoliers are coming at May 7, 2010 3:14 PM

welh, you have given us something for the ages: "How could sideways Desmond, Charlie or Faraday "pull" memories from the island future, if their present was already changed in past?"

#284. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 3:20 PM

@283. Posted by: Langoliers are coming
We are the New People.

#285. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 3:22 PM

@279 and @284

"How could sideways Desmond, Charlie or Faraday "pull" memories from the island future, if their present was already changed in past?"

Apples and oranges!

Only their consciesness exists in both realities/dimentions/timelines.

Juliet speaks of going dutch not in her timeline/dimention, but the alt world. Her consciousness jumps across the dimentional timeline divide.

One timelines present, future, and pastdoes not reflect the other timeline in any relative way.

#286. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 3:29 PM

@davidrh
247 huh? Never looked myself up on there...I'm the one in Rochester, NY
I think I also put the Crispy Seaplanes name on my account so searching that should come up with me as well...
Cecil managed to find me...did you have any trouble Cecil? :)

#287. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 7, 2010 3:51 PM

In addition to 282 --> in all fairness, Jacob does tell Richard that wanting to live is the first sensible thing he had said. Keep in mind that sensible and true are sometimes two different things.

#288. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 3:54 PM

@davidrh
using Crispy Seaplanes in the search doesn't work--but putting "chris plane rochester ny" did

#289. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at May 7, 2010 3:56 PM

#282.Revelation: ___ I don't believe that Jacob is the devil and I don't think MIB believes it either.

I don't think we can believe much of anything MIB says. "MIB claims, "The Devil betrayed me. He took my body. My humanity". That is the statement that led me to think that MIB holds Jacob responsible for his dilemma. I don't think MIB actually thinks Jacob is the devil, but I do think he blames Jacob.

This just occurred to me: MIB in the jungle chasing the blonde boy yells to the boy, "Don't tell me what I cannot do." I wonder if, as children, Jacob told MIB, "You can't go in that well". And MIB yelled at Jacob,"Don't tell me what I cannot do." and went in anyway.

And that makes me wonder if MIB using that phrase is Locke leaking into MIB, or if Locke's use of those words was MIB leaking into Locke.

#290. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 4:12 PM

remember little boy Locke's drawing that Richard saw? the drawing of smokey.

#291. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 4:23 PM

@290 - undauntid
I am still not sure who is what. I hope we get some answers tuesday night.


"Don't tell me what I cannot do."

I took that as Locke bleedover. If MIB took lockes boby and his humanity, something of Locke must have been left over.

#292. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 4:26 PM

@253 BostonSteve and @254 undauntid ... I totally agree about the Island healing powers, I was thinking more of his mind catching up to the recovery. I mean, he wiggles his foot once and then jumps up and runs. Just seems like he processed the information a tad quickly.

Cecil proposed:
>Why can't the island be found easily on a standard map?

Rand-McNally refuses to print new maps every time the island moves

And once again I am sitting alone laughing out loud!

Don't think the garb in the preview is Viking (any Scadians about have any thoughts on that?). I'm betting we are going to find out who built the statue and/or the temple. Any takers??

#293. Posted by: surefoot at May 7, 2010 4:26 PM

@291. Posted by: undauntid
the drawing of smokey.

Good memory, I forgot about that.

How long has MIB influenced John? Could MIB have been with John Locke from when he was born and Richard went to see him at the hospital? If so, is it possible that when Jacob touches John after he falls out the window, that Jacob was talking to MIB when he said he was sorry that this had to happen to him? So many questions; Nose Bleeds galore!!!!

I dont think TPTB would have gone this far down the rabbit hole.
(That was a shout out to bunny lover who we have not heard from in a while)

#294. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 4:33 PM

@281 -- I don't think it is a young Rosseau -- timeframe doesn't seem to fit based on the clothing. Plus, imb has her listed as "Claudia." I'm thinking that she is Jacob/MIB's mom.

#295. Posted by: srharmon at May 7, 2010 4:38 PM

NEW YORK – "Lost" has found an added half-hour to expand its big series conclusion.

ABC says the May 23rd finale originally scheduled for two hours is now set to air from 9 p.m. to 11:30 p.m. Eastern.

Preceding the finale will be a retrospective special, "Lost: The Final Journey," airing from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern. It will look back at the past six seasons of this mystical thriller.

And to finish out the big night, ABC late-night host Jimmy Kimmel bids the series farewell on a special edition of his show, "Jimmy Kimmel Live: Aloha to `Lost,'" airing from 12:05 a.m. to 1:05 a.m. Eastern.

#296. Posted by: Christina at May 7, 2010 5:16 PM

@287 Crispy Seaplanes asked:

>Cecil managed to find me...did you have any trouble Cecil? :)

You know, I can't remember how we did it now? Did you friend me or did I friend you? Looking back at your post on the 'niceness' post, I must have searched for you. It looks like if you use the full "Christoper F Plane" you get right to you, but shortened versions may produce multiple hits.


#297. Posted by: Cecil at May 7, 2010 5:38 PM

@286/ Revelation stated

Only their consciousness exists in both realities/dimensions/time lines.

One time lines present, future, and past does not reflect the other time line in any relative way.

>>>> That is the paradoxical point: there is no need for consciousness to move from one dimension to the other if the parallel universes are already self-contained, separate time lines. The island incident did not reboot a single time line/universe because apparently the island time line still exists in 2007. There is no evidence that the island incident created the sideways universe.

#298. Posted by: welh at May 7, 2010 5:39 PM

@298. Posted by: welh
"There is no evidence that the island incident created the sideways universe."

You are correct IMO. The sideways universe was created long before incident, long before flight 815.

I think the two time lines coexist but the mystical forces that are unexplained on the island allow certain individuals that are on the island to transcend the other time-line on a consciousness level. Memories of an alternate life are uploaded with the help of a special catalyst. I think Desmond is that catalyst

I will probably be disproved very shortly, but is fun to speculate!

#299. Posted by: Revelation at May 7, 2010 6:45 PM

It's taken me days to read everything and the post I've been working on all day didn't go through and I couldn't get back to it, but I do want to add something! (So I hope I'm not repeating anyone or myself!)

1. Thanks, Vaac.
2. I love David's scream.
3. @272 Cecil: Good answers! LOL
4 Thanks everyone for your insight, theories, etc. I don't always comprehend them, but they're fun to read and always thought-provoking.

Each week, the writers bring more pieces and phrases back to the story: pushing the button, Apollo candy bar, Catch a Falling Star, mirrors....and now the music box. Didn't Sayid fix one for Rousseau way back when?

It seems that the altverse people can't find happiness until they die on the Island. If that's the case, then MIB is helping them achieve that.

I think the final series scene will be Jack's eye popping open. The question is: where will he be? I truly hope he's not looking up at Locke who is asking, "Do you know how much I want to kill you?"

#300. Posted by: lovelost at May 7, 2010 7:03 PM

#300. Posted by: lovelost: "It seems that the altverse people can't find happiness until they die on the Island. If that's the case, then MIB is helping them achieve that." ___ Murder victims can't go to heaven until they're dead, but that doesn't make their murderers benevolent. MIB is a bad bad bad guy.


#301. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 9:01 PM

mac! first post but i've been reading your reviews for a while! ...and they have really changed my perspective on watching LOST!
I still feel like we're not getting all our questions and doubts solved EVER!
Does anyone remember when Ben apparently summoned the black smoke!? It still doesn't make any sense to me... did Ben know what/who it is? All I can think of is Flocke atacked Keamy's team because they worked for Widmore, but still I don't get the Ben-Flocke rekationship...
Anyway, saludos desde México!

#302. Posted by: varis at May 7, 2010 9:18 PM

#302. varis: This is my take on the Keamy/Ben "summoning" Smokey to the compound...The sonic fences prevented Smokey from entering the compound above ground. And the water covering the grate in the basement kept Smokey from entering the compound below ground through tunnels. When Keamy was raising hell, Ben decided to raise his own hell by giving Smokey access to the compound through the tunnel.

He didn't summon Smokey, he just had to open the cage door and Smokey did the rest.

#303. Posted by: undauntid at May 7, 2010 9:31 PM

Cecil, I loved your answers on post 272, but I still want to know why they dropped the "pregnant women die" storyline. Could be jughead's radiation, magnetic hyperimmunity, or maybe MIB's mommy issues, but it's one of those pesky things that TPTB dropped.

And now for something completely different:

I never really was bothered by Jack's breathing, didn't notice it. But I've been cracking up since last season's finale at Jack's "I'm gonna shoot you with my big, bad handgun" face. He also seems to have near-perfect aim, infinite bullets, and an invinciblity cloak when others are shooting at him. I cannot take him seriously when he starts shooting at people.

And one more gripe:

Daylight, night, daylight, night. Jack and Locke go into the jungle with torches, come out and it's morning. Everyone boards the sub in daylight, but wash up on the shore after the explosion in the dark. I know it adds drama, but even the normal passage of time isn't normal on the island. No wonder we can't keep track of how long they've been stuck there!

Keep it coming with the theories, everyone! I need so much help making sense of all the clues and twists.

#304. Posted by: jaybee at May 7, 2010 10:24 PM

@301. Posted by: undauntid
"MIB is a bad bad bad guy. "

I really want to believe in Jacob as the good guy and MIB (he who is never named) as the bad bad guy, but I am still out on this one.
So far, Jacob seams to be the manipulative, interfering one, and MIB has been pretty honest,or at least not proven dishonest, even if he is violent and vindictive, but at least he does what he says he will do, and does not use others to his dirty work. I just don't buy the whole Black and white thing. something is not right here.

I can't get beyond Ab Eterno... MIB tells Richard that if he goes with him he will see his wife again. nothing more. If Richard's wife is in Heaven, then Richard needs to turn from evil and accept good in order to enter heaven and be with his wife again. Jacob cannot promise this, but can grant Richard eternal life. Quite the Faustian promise. I don't know, but this reaks of deception. I still think Jacob is a squid stick! (shameless John Candy reference)

#305. Posted by: Revelation at May 8, 2010 4:54 AM

Hey Everybody! I haven't been posting lately, but I read faithfully every week/day/minute. I want to thank Mac and Vacc for giving us such hilarious recaps. Thanks you guys! And I just want to add my voice to the chorus and say how much I value this blog and the community therein. I think I would've dropped LOST a long time ago if I couldn't come here and gain insight and momentum to continue watching.
I don't post anymore cuz you all have such great comments and usually say all the things (and more) that I'm thinking.
I sent a friend request to Crispy Seaplanes. Thanks for offering your Facebook page for us Lost Addicts.
I was wondering if it's possible to make a Facebook page for Mac's Blog? You Facebook savvy posters, is this possible? I'd be fun to keep the community going after THE END. Sniff.

#306. Posted by: En Provence at May 8, 2010 5:13 AM

And one more gripe: Daylight, night, daylight, night. / #304. Posted by: jaybee
This HAS been very noticeable this season. I don’t think it’s been as prevalent in former years, or at least I don’t remember it. Can’t help but think there’s a reason for it by the writers. Otherwise it sure seems like pretty shoddy cinematography.

I was wondering if it's possible to make a Facebook page for Mac's Blog? #306. Posted by: En Provence

I know I just found Crispy Seaplanes on facebook, but let’s face it (no pun intended) - all of us probably have hundreds of “friends” and how will we ever keep track of the LOST folks in all the everyday facebook minutia!?!. This seems like a good idea. I’m sure there’s going to be a LOST facebook page - if there isn’t one already, but we need a MAC PAGE. Surely one of us is techno-savvy. Not me. I just do music and model trains.

#307. Posted by: davidrh at May 8, 2010 6:33 AM

There might be more to Dogen’s role in all this. His backstory, the way he explained it to Said, raises questions. He says that his son was in some kind of mortal danger. Jacob came to him and told him that his son would be saved, if Dogen came to the Island, never seeing his son again. That seems so un-Jacob like. More like MIB, promising Richard to be with Isabela again, Sayid with Nadia, etc.

So was it really Jacob who manipulated him this way, into becoming a player on the board? Dogen had a very important position, guarding the Temple. He seemed to know a great deal about the game and the rules. Regardless of whether he was, perhaps unwittingly, under the influence of MIB, I think we will learn more about his backstory. He may also pop back up in ALT.

In fact, what if his son ends up in Jack’s hospital, in mortal danger, and it’s actually in ALT where Jacob or MIB shows up to claim Dogen. Wait, that would… never mind, I’m not even going there.

#308. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 8:09 AM

There might be more to Dogen’s role in all this. His backstory, the way he explained it to Said, raises questions. He says that his son was in some kind of mortal danger. Jacob came to him and told him that his son would be saved, if Dogen came to the Island, never seeing his son again. That seems so un-Jacob like. More like MIB, promising Richard to be with Isabela again, Sayid with Nadia, etc.

So was it really Jacob who manipulated him this way, into becoming a player on the board? Dogen had a very important position, guarding the Temple. He seemed to know a great deal about the game and the rules. Regardless of whether he was, perhaps unwittingly, under the influence of MIB, I think we will learn more about his backstory. He may also pop back up in ALT.

In fact, what if his son ends up in Jack’s hospital, in mortal danger, and it’s actually in ALT where Jacob or MIB shows up to claim Dogen. Wait, that would… never mind, I’m not even going there.

#309. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 8:10 AM

There might be more to Dogen’s role in all this. His backstory, the way he explained it to Said, raises questions. He says that his son was in some kind of mortal danger. Jacob came to him and told him that his son would be saved, if Dogen came to the Island, never seeing his son again. That seems so un-Jacob like. More like MIB, promising Richard to be with Isabela again, Sayid with Nadia, etc.

So was it really Jacob who manipulated him this way, into becoming a player on the board? Dogen had a very important position, guarding the Temple. He seemed to know a great deal about the game and the rules. Regardless of whether he was, perhaps unwittingly, under the influence of MIB, I think we will learn more about his backstory. He may also pop back up in ALT.

In fact, what if his son ends up in Jack’s hospital, in mortal danger, and it’s actually in ALT where Jacob or MIB shows up to claim Dogen. Wait, that would… never mind, I’m not even going there.

#310. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 8:10 AM

There might be more to Dogen’s role in all this. His backstory, the way he explained it to Said, raises questions. He says that his son was in some kind of mortal danger. Jacob came to him and told him that his son would be saved, if Dogen came to the Island, never seeing his son again. That seems so un-Jacob like. More like MIB, promising Richard to be with Isabela again, Sayid with Nadia, etc.

So was it really Jacob who manipulated him this way, into becoming a player on the board? Dogen had a very important position, guarding the Temple. He seemed to know a great deal about the game and the rules. Regardless of whether he was, perhaps unwittingly, under the influence of MIB, I think we will learn more about his backstory. He may also pop back up in ALT.

In fact, what if his son ends up in Jack’s hospital, in mortal danger, and it’s actually in ALT where Jacob or MIB shows up to claim Dogen. Wait, that would… never mind, I’m not even going there.

#311. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 8:11 AM

oh... sorry :(

#312. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 8:12 AM

We need to beg the (really beg sniff sniff sniff) the writers to do another show after lost. We just need this kind of show on tv! Yes it would be different..you know what I mean :)

I wonder if we will see ALT-Juliett or ALT-Michael...who else have we not seen in the ALT?

#313. Posted by: Christina at May 8, 2010 9:08 AM

@313:
altwalt, altlapidus, altdanielle, althorace, among others

#314. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 9:32 AM

thank you. I mean more MAIN characters. But yes, there is A LOT we have not seen. Meaning more main.

#315. Posted by: Christina at May 8, 2010 9:37 AM

@306 En Provence

>I was wondering if it's possible to make a Facebook page for Mac's Blog? You Facebook savvy posters, is this possible? I'd be fun to keep the community going after THE END. Sniff.

How nice to hear from you again.

I facebook searched on En Provence but only came up with some commercial products. Feel free to search my name and friend me, if you wish.

I think the idea of a way to keep the group together after "The (sniff) End" is an excellent suggestion.

I have researched Facebook groups, and I could set one up, or another possibility is a Yahoo Group. There are advantages and disadvantages to each.

I think we need to have a little discussion before setting up a group, and for that matter, see if the desire is really there.

Rather than clutter the episode blog up with off-topic discussion, let's take it over to Random Topics - click my name below to go there. The only random Topic blog open for posting right now is the 'niceness' blog, but I think that's an appropriate forum for discussing keeping a community of friends together.

See ya'll over there.

#316. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 8, 2010 9:58 AM

@305/revelation: "I really want to believe in Jacob as the good guy and MIB (he who is never named) as the bad bad guy, but I am still out on this one. So far, Jacob seams to be the manipulative, interfering one, and MIB has been pretty honest,or at least not proven dishonest..I just don't buy the whole Black and white thing."

You mean other than lying to the candidates to get them into the sub so he could kill them? Throwing Des into the well and sending Sayid to kill him? Conducting the masssacres at both the temple and the Ajira landing site? Murdering Eko, the Oceanic pilot, Nadine, and ripping off Montand's arm?

I know some viewers are holding out hope for a switcheroo ending, but here's what Cuse had to say after the "Candidate" episode aired:

“There is no ambiguity,” says Cuse. “He (MIB) is evil and he has to be stopped.”

Says Cuse: “There will be very little debate at the end of this episode that [Fake Locke] is evil and bad and has to be stopped. The main narrative reason for him killing our main characters is to establish how much of a bad guy he is and to clearly identify him as the antagonist rolling into the end of the series.”

If anyone ever re-edits the entire six seasons of Lost into pseudo-chronological order, I think it will be clear that the entire plotline has been one long con by MIB to kill Jacob, the final candidates, and ultimately destroy the world.

Whether Jacob is "white" can still be debated, but there is no question at this point that MIB is "black".

#317. Posted by: Mizzed at May 8, 2010 10:14 AM

I agree that MIB is obviously evil, but that doesn't mean he has always been. Maybe he was turned evil, like Anakin, but is in essence a decent guy.

#318. Posted by: Mischa at May 8, 2010 10:46 AM

I once worried that all the mysteries were merely clever out-of-order editing, in order to sell a massive "Lost in Order" DVD box by ABC after the show ended.

We have three reference points:
1. the flashbacks
2. the island world
3. the sideways world.

We assumed that the flashbacks are part of the island linear time line. But what if the flashbacks are a separate universe like the sideways world?

If you believe the 1977 incident made some conscious connection to the sideways world, then it is possible that the unexplained "1985 incident" on the blast door map created a conscious connection from the flashback world to the island time line universe.

The "progress" Jacob says may be a slight variation in the characters lives (a variable in an experiment) to get the right result. A long time ago in my high school advanced physics class, we set up our wave experiment and recorded the results. Our results were 1000% off the norm. No one knew what went wrong, but the teacher said, "well, getting results is part of the experiment."

Jacob and MIB may have been conducting hundreds of thousands of re-tests (on humanity) trying to find the correct result.

#319. Posted by: welh at May 8, 2010 10:56 AM

@193. Posted by: Skipper
What's up with the comments this week? I feel like I don't know you guys anymore?! What's with the spam and public messages of a private nature? What's up with the new, inappropriate nicknames?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "where my homies at?"

Shikotee, my brother from another mother, only 1 post?

I'm just not feelin' the love this week. It feels weird to tell you the truth.

Now, just to stay on the topic of Lost, I'll throw in that I really enjoyed the epi. and can't wait to rewatch.

@276. Posted by: berkyo
This is why I am back to being a lurker. It's not so bad from out here.

@277. Posted by: Revelation
Please try to change the tone on the blog. Participate and make it the forum it was when you wanted to participate. I, along a few others, continue to try, but I am not as insightfull as many of those are now sitting out. I am trying to make a difference and I need your help as well as your insight.
*********
Just to be clear, I was not complaining about the review or the insightful comments that people have contributed. I love this blog and I will, of course, continue to contribute if I have any input. I was trying to say that this week’s entries feel different than they have in past weeks (See posts such as 113 and 142 for examples). I just thought the element of spam and personal messages was out of the norm. for this blog. Remember last week when we had someone contribute foul language to one of the posts? I’m merely saying that there’s been a shift and I think I know what it is – Obi-Locke has achieved ultimate mind control over our posters!
Keepin’ it real,
XO, S.

#320. Posted by: Skipper at May 8, 2010 11:13 AM

@319. welh:

what if the flashbacks are actually part of the alt-time and that's the real universe (real world)?
The island timeline would be like the not-real timeline or kind of a sideway world...

What I'm trying to get to: we have thought of flashbacks and alt-universe as separate timelines, while they could be part of the same universe (before and after flight 815). Maybe the island timeline isn't the real one and has nothing to do with the real one.

#321. Posted by: varis at May 8, 2010 2:06 PM

@319. welh:

what if the flashbacks are actually part of the alt-time and that's the real universe (real world)?
The island timeline would be like the not-real timeline or kind of a sideway world...

What I'm trying to get to: we have thought of flashbacks and alt-universe as separate timelines, while they could be part of the same universe (before and after flight 815). Maybe the island timeline isn't the real one and has nothing to do with the real one.

#322. Posted by: varis at May 8, 2010 2:07 PM

WAAAALLLTT! They took mah boi.

http://tinyurl.com/3ym6ajj

Glad Malcom and his family are ok :)

#323. Posted by: Skipper at May 8, 2010 4:48 PM

#317. Posted by: Mizzed: "Whether Jacob is "white" can still be debated, but there is no question at this point that MIB is "black"."

Yep! I'm not surprised that Darlton said what they said because I was convinced Smokey/MIB was a bad guy when he murdered Eko. Eko was not in need of redemption, he had been redeemed. He had turned his life around, he went through the process of confession, penance and tonsure in a process of what was essentially self ordination. Eko had reached a level of self awareness & understanding which freed him of his sense of guilt; consequently, his past no longer controlled him.

And Smokey murdered him. Everything Smokey has done from that point forward I have watched in the light of his murder of Eko. Not only have I seen nothing to indicate to me that I misjudged Smokey, but I have seen many things which support my initial opinion that Smokey/MIB is very very bad.

Ricardo could have learned a thing or two from Eko. In fact, I think the reason Jacob could not absolve Ricardo's sin is illustrated in Eko's redemption....it has to come from within oneself. No one can do it for you.

#324. Posted by: undauntid at May 8, 2010 4:50 PM

Given the information Darlton gave us about apparitions on island.... It occurs to me that Hurley's friend Dave was real off island in the institution. And on island Dave was MIB. And the reason MIB could manifest as Dave without having his body on island is because Hurley's friend Dave is/was Libby's husband and 1. Dave's sail boat was on island and 2. Dave's wife was on island.

#325. Posted by: undauntid at May 8, 2010 5:06 PM

Many die on LOST,

Trapped in sub below the sea,

Mo' better off dead.

#326. Posted by: MorBid0 at May 8, 2010 5:11 PM

Now that's a real shame when people be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that.

Bittersweet yet best
Life counterbalanced in death
Not haiku but true

#327. Posted by: Clementine at May 8, 2010 5:55 PM

Maybe it's LOST that has changed, not the bloggers.

#328. Posted by: mtncbn at May 8, 2010 6:10 PM

i am enjoying the last few episodes immensely but i think the show NEEDED a season 7 to provide clarity to many pertinent & loads of trivial questions which i guess cant be answered in the few remaining episodes.
im going to re-watch this episode tonight,
first time around was a bit of a blur,too much going on in 40something minutes to take in first time around lol.
im sure going to miss the excitement,anticipation & amazing buffet i make up for a new episode.
maybe some day someone will come up with a show that comes close to provoking anything close to our LOST expirience.

#329. Posted by: san at May 8, 2010 9:24 PM

I just read an interesting thought by RPKJr429 over on Dark UFO.

He points out that since a candidate cannot commit suicide, that Sun (who was trapped on the sub) was the candidate and Jin (who chose to die) was not the candidate.

But the interesting idea was that Jin Yeon is actually the Kwon candidate because Jacob touched both Jin and Sun at the same time, thus anointing their child.

But it appears as though Jack is actually the one, so.... I dunno. That got me to thinking.

Clearly, MIB is trying to manipulate the situation to accomplish his release from the island. And Jacob is trying to prevent MIB from escaping.

I think I'm beginning to get flashes of what is going on. MIB is trying to get off island. Jacob is trying to prevent that and Jacob is trying to bring his successor on island; MIB is getting rid of the candidates as they arrive. Jacob makes a move, MIB counters the move.

After watching each other play for so long, Jacob now anticipates MIB's next move (just as we see MIB anticipate the candidates move to the sub).

So Jacob begins setting up the board to create the circumstances which will make Desmond impervious to the island's electo-magnetism. So when MIB attempts to eliminate all the candidates, this time Desmond will be an unexpected fly in the ointment. Desmond will assist The Chosen One (which sure looks to be Jack) in a way that no candidate before him has been assisted. And in the event that Jack (or whoever) fails this go around, MIB is unaware that Ji Yeon is waiting in the wings.

MIB said it always end the same. But Jacob said it only ends once, all else is progress. That tells me Jacob is setting it up, a tiny bit at a time and though MIB sees each failed attempt as an end, Jacob sees each failed attempt as one step closer to the win.

When Jacob had all his pieces in place, he made a sacrifice final move, he permitted Ben to kill him. MIB now thinks that his own plan is in it's final stage. But Jacob has put everything in place to beat MIB once and for all.

or not.

#330. Posted by: undauntid at May 9, 2010 11:30 AM

http://www.theackattack.net/?p=1793
Have to share this from Ack's site. Lots of little puzzles in this photo.

#331. Posted by: berkyo at May 9, 2010 2:37 PM

Sayid killed himself by doing a kamikaze.

I thought candidates cannot get themselves killed?

Also, Sawyer couldn't have killed himself either because he was a candidate. (just like the scene at the Black Rock)

Looks like a 'law' is broken in this script.

#332. Posted by: Aven at May 10, 2010 3:08 AM

Sayid killed himself by doing a kamikaze.

I thought candidates cannot get themselves killed?

Also, Sawyer couldn't have killed himself either because he was a candidate. (just like the scene at the Black Rock)

Looks like a 'law' is broken in this script.

#333. Posted by: Aven at May 10, 2010 3:10 AM

I know this is a long shot, but does anyone think it is possible that Locke actually died in the very first plane craqsh on the island, episode 1 and that was the moment that MIB took over his body and became Locke/Flocke.. It just amazes a man in a wheelchair could suddenly walk, after of all things, A PLANE CRASH!!
I know there are holes in the theory, but who knows.

#334. Posted by: martymuls at May 10, 2010 7:17 AM

@193. Posted by: Skipper
What's up with the comments this week?
@277. Posted by: Revelation
@276. Posted by: berkyo
@328. Posted by: mtncbn


...maybe this is an alt-blog and we're all our sideways selves these last couple of weeks.... ( say, you look kind of familiar--do I know you from somewhere...?)

#335. Posted by: sandivon at May 10, 2010 8:07 AM

@333. Posted by: Aven said...Sayid killed himself by doing a kamikaze.

Not that it makes any difference to your point, but what Sayid did was the complete opposite of a kamikaze. Kamikazes were pretty much just suicide bombers who used their planes as the weapon with the intent of taking out as many of the enemy as possible. Sayid sacrificed his life to get the bomb as far away from anybody else as possible.

@334. Posted by: martymuls ... I can definately see that as a possibility. Did not TPTB say that there was something in the pilot that fans were overlooking that would explain a lot of the mysteries (or words to that effect)?

Can anybody out there refresh my memory on this?

#336. Posted by: surefoot at May 10, 2010 8:32 AM

#332. Posted by: Aven: Looks like a 'law' is broken in this script. ____ Not really. In order for it to be suicide, your primary intent must be to take your own life. Jack was correct; MIB cannot kill them therefore, that bomb would NOT have gone off. Sawyer didn't believe that, his thought was that he had to disarm the bomb to prevent everyone from dying...that is not suicide. Then Sayid took the bomb and ran with it to prevent the deaths of his friends. That is not suicide, it is sacrifice and it is noble.

MIB cannot kill the candidates himself. He sent an unarmed bomb on to the sub. But he was banking on those people trying to "disarm" the bomb and in so doing, arming it for him. It's a technicality but it appears it falls within the rules.

#336. Posted by: surefoot: Did not TPTB say that there was something in the pilot that fans were overlooking that would explain a lot of the mysteries (or words to that effect)? ___ I think someone here debunked that a while back, but I may be mistaken. But if it is true, I don't think Locke walking is the clue. If its anything I think it's the placement of Jack, away from the crash site. And then there is also that black cylindrical object laying next to jack when he is unconscious. Lots of speculation about that object being the same object (kickass stick) Ben carried with him when visiting the real world.

#337. Posted by: undauntid at May 10, 2010 9:50 AM

@321 varis:

If the island events are the "fake" time line, that is probably the worst possible story line since we have invested five years in it.

I don't see the flashbacks and sideways being part of the same time line because key character differences, like Desmond knowing Penny before the island events in the flashbacks.

I don't like the idea of the sideways universe being the Projected reward universe for those who made deals with MIB.

For a show that started off with survival of a plane crash on an unchartered island searching for rescue as its main plot, is turning into one massive human hunt.

#338. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2010 10:56 AM

@305 and @317: I don't for one second think that MIB is good any way, shape, or form. And I don't believe his vague promises of what he'll give someone if he/she goes with him. I don't trust him at all, never had, never will. MIB has always wanted to get the Candidates back to the island to kill them so that he can leave the island. Jacob has wanted to get the Candidates back to the island so the "One" could be chosen. And, yes, Jacob's methods were manipulative, but I don't see his motives as being evil or bad.

#339. Posted by: srharmon at May 10, 2010 11:26 AM

@305 by me

Let me clarify:

I don't think either of the two are good. Jacob brings people to the island, manipulates them... MIB kills some of them, decieves them with images of loved ones, and manipulates as well.

I wanted to point out that the distinction between Jacob and MIB was that Jacob is responsible for bringing people to the island, for what appears to be his own gain, and he does not care that everyone he has brought to the island has died.

Maybe Tueday's episode will shed more light on these two characters.

I can't wait to find out more!!!

#340. Posted by: Revelation at May 10, 2010 11:36 AM

@ 321/322

The alt timeline is not the same as the flashbacks. These are where all the differences occur!

Hurley was cursed with his lottery in the flashbacks (and this continued on the island), but in sideways universe, he is lucky (blessed?).

Locke's dad paralyzed him in the flashbacks, but in sideways universe he paralyzed his dad.

There are many more like this.

#341. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 10, 2010 12:18 PM

@332/333

Sayid didn't kill himself, Sawyer caused the bomb to explode.
Perhaps if Sayid didn't run away with it, everyone else would have died except Sawyer?

#342. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 10, 2010 12:22 PM

@334: "I know this is a long shot, but does anyone think it is possible that Locke actually died in the very first plane craqsh on the island, episode 1 and that was the moment that MIB took over his body and became Locke/Flocke."

this is exactly what I was thinking after reading post #293 (1st paragraph). Though I feel like this may have been discussed before.

#343. Posted by: BostonSteve at May 10, 2010 12:33 PM

@334 and @343 - MIB takes Locke after 815 Crash.

I thought that for a while, but now I have my doubts as to the extent of MIB's influence on Locke even before the crash. Locke had visions of MIB when he was a child, this was pointed out to me on this message thread. I had forgotten about Richard's test and the picture Locke drew of MIB as smokie. Now I am not sure that MIB was not with Locke long before the Crash.

#344. Posted by: Revelation at May 10, 2010 12:41 PM

So MIB has been wanting to kill all the candidates for a long time. Candidates leaving the Island, out of his reach, was the worst thing that could happen. So why didn't he try to prevent the O6 from escaping? In fact, he helped them, when he rescued Ben and some of the candidates from Keamy's men. He took Claire, he told Locke to move the Island. It's not like he wasn't interfering with these people. Maybe he knew that the O6 escaping was unavoidable anyway, so he was already planning ahead.

Btw, did Locke ever tell Ben that it wasn't Jacob but Christian, aka The Notorious MIB, who told him to move the Island? What was his motive? Did he know about the time skipping and nosebleeds? Was he hoping to kill the remaining candidates on Island that way?


Here's what I would like to find out:

The history of the Island, from the very beginning, when it was formed, up to the moment of Jacob and MIB sitting on the beach, watching the Black Rock approach.

What happened on the Island, after Jacob named Richard as his spokesman? The period between the Black Rock and that day back in the 50's, when John Locke walked into Richard's camp.

What happened on the Island in the period between the 50's and the foomers joining Dharma?

What happened on the Island during and after Jughead's detonation? The period between Jughead and the purge.

What happened after the purge? The period between the purge and Rousseau and then between Rousseau and Oceanic 815.

Ofcourse, I also have about 50 more specific questions that I feel I deserve answers to. Sigh, with so many current time and ALT time events yet to unfold as well, I wish we had one more season left :(

#345. Posted by: Mischa at May 10, 2010 1:39 PM

Oh wait, I got confused about Rousseau, that was pre purge, right?

#346. Posted by: Mischa at May 10, 2010 1:47 PM

What the deuce?!? It is Monday already! Zoiks!

Yeah - I totally time warped this week, and did not get a chance to keep up.
With that said - I did copy and paste several comments, so brace yourselves for one very long-assed post.

Seriously. Put on a pot of coffee, drink it, and start making burgers (Simpsons reference).


@40. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man
re: multiply like a mogwai

That would have been awesome. Alternatively, as soon as he hits the water, the hissing sound of steam (like water on a red hot rock), and have Flocke turn to smoke would have been really cool. I've always observed that they never show smokey transform. I wonder if this is for a good reason, budget reasons, or if they just couldn't find a good CGI method to make it happen.


@44. Posted by: Skulley
re: I think water has an affect on the smoke monster

I think this is an erroneous deduction. h2o is not kryptonite. Smokey simply cannot leave the island. I think the scientific answer will be related to the magnetic activity on the main island.

Correct me if I am wrong - but we have not seen Flocke in smokey form on Hydra island?

I wonder if he is able to manifest himself like that there at all? Flocke kicks ass in human form, unlike all other times where he has whooped some ass.


@48. Posted by: English Addict
re: Also, how did Sawyer not die when being brought to the surface, why hasn't everyone who did get off the sub got the benz (SP?) from surfacing too quickly and how hasn't Kate bled to death?

Having scuba dived several times myself, these thoughts crossed my mind as well. ebk @271 addresses this as well - "when bringing an unconscious person to the surface, you have to plug their nose. Also, they won't be able to breathe from the air tank. So I don't get how Jack brought Sawyer up to the surface successfully"

Even if the sub did not submerge all that much, these issues of compression do not just go away. Suspension of disbelief is the only real answer.


@49. Posted by: Revelation
re: Cannonball Hurley

True - Hugo did like the cannonball. Anyways - still relatively fishy. I think it would have made more sense to have him flip out, and for someone like Jack to advise him what he needs to do make it to the surface. Such a pep talk would make things more believable.


@50. Posted by: BostonSteve
re: Jin, Sun, and the baby back home

I find it odd that so many people are cheesed by this. I think they handled this well. In a very stressful panic filled situation, Jin made a choice to not let his wife die alone. Keep in mind, there was only one oxygen tank left, and Jin chose to let Jack use it, so he could escape with Sawyer. After being unable to free Sun, instead of risking swimming up to the surface with no tank (and likely dying in the process), he chose not to let her die alone.

Ultimately - I think it is stupid for people to apply rational points towards a highly irrational situation. Jin never has the time to weigh the options of his decision. His daughter (whom he has never met) is not at risk - his wife, whom he had not seen for 3 years, is facing death. I very much respect his sacrifice, and I believe that it is very consistent with his character.


@51. Posted by: Jacob's Revenge
re: music box

"BTW, those boxes have one or more inserts that Jack and Claire neglected"

No kidding! I couldn't believe how lame their inspection skills were. To me, it was clear that there must be some secret compartment or something. I have to believe that they introduced this for a reason, and that they were not just killing time. I wonder what the box will contain?


@55. Posted by: Brandon
re: Jack's obsession with Locke/Cooper over Claire

Sure - there is plausible reasons as to why Jack would do it, but it still is wishy-washy. They could have handled this better. It would make more sense that Claire be given priority, while the Locke thing is something he is doing in between. Keep in mind, this isn't just for him - but also for his son (she is his aunt), and for his mom (who might not be too thrilled to find out about a bastard child fathered by her late husband).

My above post addresses your "dropped the ball" thoughts on Jin staying with Sun.



@37. Posted by: ransomjackson
@59. Posted by: CDog
re: flight numbers

Yeah - this is a stretch. I've never ever identified flight #'s when I've flown. I was always annoyed at having to find my ticket to copy it over when filling out a customs card. With that said, with all the bleeding from the island verse, I can buy into the flight # sticking to the mind.


@63. Posted by: Brandon
re: Kate off the list

We've speculated about this from the onset of the cave scene. We did not actually see her name anywhere there - it was crossed out at the lighthouse. We'll see how this plays out.


@66. Posted by: August Paul
re: Jack and Lock and Claire

I think the leakage answer is the most probable explanation. We'll see how things hold up once we know more about all that.

@69. Posted by: Glen
re: Jin survived

GONG! Sorry - I simply refuse to buy into this possibility. Why bother with this deception? If anything, the one guy who might not be dead is Frank, because we saw that he was hurt by that flying door, and did not see him die. With that said, why have Frank survive? Does he have a greater purpose for the end game, or are there simply some clever one liners he needs to deliver that Sawyer can't?


@71. Posted by: Montag the Cat
re: Denial IS a river in Egypt!

LoL! Exactly - logic really can only take us so far when we are talking about this show. Like I said - I liked the episode - just nitpicking (which seems to be the thing to do in these last days, when there is less far reaching speculation to think about).

@72. Posted by: August Paul
re: how does he get rid of the last candidate?

I guess this is shy he was trying to get them all at once. Problem solved!


@85. Posted by: PZ
re: "How is it that Sawyer can spend most of his life (and have access to LAPD resources )looking for Anthony Cooper and can't find him yet Jack can track him down in a couple of hours?"

I believe that we are to assume that he spent many years looking for Sawyer, and various other aliases. Is it not possible (I think we were actually lead to believe this) that James only recently came across the info that he is using the Cooper alias? Keeping in mind that the name is very common, it's not easy to track. Also, this is the alias that Locke's dad stuck with, so it is likely the least incriminating. Why would anyone stick with a name that has trouble attached?

In any case - agreed - it is weakish that jack would be able to track the whereabouts of Anthony Cooper, but not know that he is Locke's father. Wouldn't this type of info be available to Jack via patient information records (that Helen would have to fill out)?

@117. Posted by: Revelation
re: smokie and the water

"IF smokie uses the islands electro-magnetic energy, and even though electromagnets work under water, he may not be able to sustain himself in water if his power source is not insulated"

Totally!

@131. Posted by: DEZOMBIFICATION
re: music box tune

Sure - it could have a leakage effect. This does not explain why Christian would specifically will it to Claire. Why would he leave this to her? There must be more to it.

@132. Posted by: FenwayBen
re: Food drops

Once time travel came into play, I just assumed the food drop came from a time in the past. It is confusing. I'd like to know more about Dharma post incident. If they still had a presence on the island post purge, and could deliver supplies, why not build up a force and try to take the island back from the hostiles?

@136. Posted by: FenwayBen
re: Lost tour photos.

Thanks for sharing. That must have been loads of fun!

@140. Posted by: Mizzed
re: "Finally, I agree with an earlier poster that the Jin-Sun reunion scene was deliberately underplayed so they could emotionally punch us in the face the next episode with their death scene- well played, Darlton!"

Agreed. Having a super cheesy lengthy reunion sequence makes no sense when you know you are going to off them shortly.


@166. Posted by: mac
@174. Posted by: Margot
@191. Posted by: vacc

re: the ending to BSG

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was fantastic, much like I wouldn't say it was utter rubbish.
It was what it was, and it didn't change the fact that the series was well written and very enjoyable. My money is on fandom having a similar reaction to the end of Lost. Whatever Jacob/MIB/the island turns out to be, it will not meet expectations. Alas.

Totally agree with vacc that BSG had managed to tie up many loose ends in advance, but there are those in fandom who found several threads that were left dangling too. It all depends on how seriously you look at things. In any case - as I've mentioned several times - I hope TPTB eventually write a book explaining why some things were dropped.


@180. Posted by: Revelation
@181. Posted by: August Paul
@185. Posted by: Cecil
re: The Economist

I still stick to my guns in my belief that Ben was the Economist, though I concede there are many factors that make this more difficult to swallow. It just seemed right, especially at the time.


@193. Posted by: Skipper
re: Shikotee, my brother from another mother, only 1 post?

The tally has increased to 2.

"Who does #2 work for"?
"You tell that turd who's boss!"


@196. Posted by: Gumbo
re: Sun and Jin

Agree with you, and I add my input from above!


@200. Posted by: Revelation
re: I will try not to hog the blog as I have been.

Poppycock!

If you have the time and the inclination - Just give 'er!

I think everyone is feeling the butterflies in their stomach as the end draws near.
Instead of wondering at the marvel of where something might lead us, we're paranoid and worried about how it is all going to wrap up.

Instead of an atmosphere of hoping A evolves to B, or C, or D, we're faced with the negativism of "they better explain X, Y, and Z."

So many of the natives are getting restless with this.

I think the problem comes when people focus on the negative, while ignoring the positive. It just makes them come across as surly, and it makes the ones who are enjoying feel like the oxygen is being sucked out of the room. It could be that some have posted less, simply because they do not want to cut things up as we approach the end. Do really need everyone to be bitching and complaining?

This is not to say that bitching and complaining is unwarranted. My advice is that people balance their dislikes with what they liked, even if the thing they liked was small and trivial. Less funeral march, more celebration of life!

@202. Posted by: davidrh
re: "loving scream"

As others have mentioned - if readers have not done their homework and followed along, outside of this context, I could see how people could interpret it negatively. Context is key. Life is all about miscommunication and misunderstandings. Isn't that what this show really teaches us? Be the bigger man and extend the invitation to the WRAGGLE!


@218. Posted by: Jack
re: "Shikotee where are you? I miss your posts."

There was a great disturbance in the space time continuum. As such, Wednesday became Monday. Now I know how the time traveling Losties felt! In any case - Thanks for the love Doc!


@224. Posted by: tweedle_dee
re: "EM field"

I think this will have to do with the true nature of the island, whatever that is.


@225. Posted by: August Paul
re: what is Widmore is after?

No matter what, Widmore believes he is serving humanity. His interpretation of this is what might be sketchy. He believes he is saving the world, and this might actually turn out to be the case. Can't wait till we have more light on this.


@246. Posted by: Cecil
re: Yes, ya'll come on over to Fringe.

Well - we all saw what happened at the end coming now, didn't we?


@306. Posted by: En Provence
re: I was wondering if it's possible to make a Facebook page for Mac's Blog? You Facebook savvy posters, is this possible? I'd be fun to keep the community going after THE END. Sniff.


Something like this would be nice. With that said, my fingers are crossed that something outside of facebook can be found. Living in the digital age, I keep strict rules of separating my real identity from my alias, for a wide range of reasons. This is not something that I am willing to compromise, as I use this alias in various places outside of this blog. Don't read into this as something mysterious, as in I have something hide. It's just the code that I live by. I consider this common sense.


@315. Posted by: Christina
re: people we have not seen in the alt world

Why have we not seen Alt world Tom Friendly? I miss that guy (in a pure hetrosexual way)!


@320. Posted by: Skipper
re: Obi-Locke has achieved ultimate mind control over our posters

This could be it. Perhaps things from the island and sideways world are leeching into OUR world? My god! Are they doing it through water?

"Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?" ;)

My god - how can we protect our precious bodily fluids?


@325. Posted by: undauntid
re: Hurley's friend Dave

And here I thought he was simply Hank Moody's agent!


@328. Posted by: mtncbn
re: Maybe it's LOST that has changed, not the bloggers.

Ouch!


@340. Posted by: Revelation
re: Jacob/MIB

"he does not care that everyone he has brought to the island has died."

Which then makes you wonder - considering we have seen an alternate timeline, perhaps island time really is inconsequential in the grand scheme - it all just leads to the end.


Well - that about does it for my short quaint response.....

#347. Posted by: shikotee at May 10, 2010 3:04 PM

shikotee @ 347 : "I think this is an erroneous deduction. h2o is not kryptonite. Smokey simply cannot leave the island. I think the scientific answer will be related to the magnetic activity on the main island."
____ I think water does have a negative effect on Smokey because in order for Ben to allow Smokey access to the compound to beat down Keamy, Ben first had to drain water from a grate to permit Smokey to come through.

Correct me if I am wrong - but we have not seen Flocke in smokey form on Hydra island?
___Yes, we did on this episode Smokey manifested on Hydra Island.

How did Jack find Anthony Cooper so fast when Sawyer couldn't find him?
___I don't understand why this is a concern. Jack had the man's name and direct access to people who knew where he was. Sawyer didn't.

Nice to have you back Shikotee!

#348. Posted by: undauntid at May 10, 2010 3:38 PM

I just realized that my apparent distrust of both Jacob and MIB might be a Subconscious leftover from playing Myst. I played that game for a month before finishing, and the end game was similar in a way.

I will be watching tomarrow very closely, and I am totally jazzed about the extended finale!!

#349. Posted by: Revelation at May 10, 2010 3:43 PM

@347 shikotee mentioned:

>@246. Posted by: Cecil
>re: Yes, ya'll come on over to Fringe.

I think we all saw the "What" but can you figure out "Why" or "What's next?"

#350. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 10, 2010 4:23 PM

@348 undauntid pointed out:

>>How did Jack find Anthony Cooper so fast when Sawyer couldn't find him?
>___I don't understand why this is a concern. Jack had the man's name and direct access to people who knew where he was. Sawyer didn't.

For that matter, we doen't even know if alt-Anthony Cooper IS the Sawyer that Detective Ford is looking for.


>Nice to have you back Shikotee!

Second the motion.

#351. Posted by: Cecil at May 10, 2010 4:27 PM

@348. Posted by: undauntid

Drat! Did I forget to mention how the disturbance in the space time continuum also affected my short term memory?

Egads! How could I so quickly forget about the butt kicking smokey unleashed on Chip (from "Kate and Allie")? I blame the obvious communist plot to get to us via the fluoridation of our water. That's why I drink grain alcohol mixed with distilled water!

In any case - I think we're just expected to believe that he can't fly over water in smokey form, likely due to some magnetism mumbo jumbo. With that said, it's not like he can leave the island in human form - the powers of the island will not let him, though this might not be the case if he is able to kill all candidates.

When Ben drains the water, MIB can enter Dharmaville via his smokey form, which does not work in water. He could not do this in human form, because he would not fit?

In any case - alas - no one on the island is singing Deep Purple....

#352. Posted by: shikotee at May 10, 2010 4:32 PM

Just throwing out a wild ass hypothesis based on pretty much nothing.

Is it possible that Kate is in cahoots with MIB?

It seems to me that she’s always been “right there” when big things were a-happening. Her motives have always seemed to me to be just a tad fuzzy, her alliances fickle at best, her skills entirely too convenient. She saw her horse? Really? Aren’t we fairly certain that her horse was MIB/Smoky? She always seems to “find” who/what she’s looking for? And in Altworld, she seems a pretty inept felon, but seems to get away time after time after time…or would that be foom after foom after foom…?

Sure, she got shot, but to me that almost smells like a red herring two weeks past. Makes for a great alibi/cover. And what better foil for MIB than a hot “temptress” to seduce our likeliest heroes away from following the “true” path, clouding their minds with thoughts selfish and impure and unbecoming for a “hero”?

As the (apparently) sole surviving female Lostie, she is undeniably unique in her situation. I’m trying to recall her interactions with Locke/Flocke, and other than a slyly knowing grin as she “joined” him after he laid waste to the Temple party-goers, I don’t recall her having a whole lot to do with Locke/Flocke.

Or I’m just plain wrong. Flip a coin.

#353. Posted by: ransomjackson at May 10, 2010 4:37 PM

@353 - Kate.

I am trying real hard to like Kate. I have postulated in the past about what a total tool Kate is. (A wrench specifically) She is always in the way of jacks plans. She foils his efforts at almost every turn. She was the one who busted up Jacks play with tom in the jungle after she follows him when told not to and gets captured. Kate is the one who takes little Ben to the others when Jack refuses to help. Kate takes Sawyer over jack in the cages...Kate gets shot and Jack has to get in the sub. She seems to always be in the wrong place at the right time.

You might have something here.

#354. Posted by: Revelation at May 10, 2010 4:53 PM

One of my gnawing questions remains that after Jack, Sawyer and Kate were captured: what "deal" did Ben make with Kate during that new sun dress beach meeting?

#355. Posted by: welh at May 10, 2010 5:47 PM

I must admit, all this "Kate Doubt" in recent posts is intriguing. Some interesting questions are being raised . . .

Especially wehl's reference to that "new sun dress beach meeting" with Ben . . . What WAS that all about anyway?

Gosh I hope this is all empty guessing because I've always been a Kate fan. Wouldn't want to be let down now.

20 hours to go.

#356. Posted by: davidrh at May 11, 2010 12:58 AM

Long week with little post-reading time.
I echo Plain Simple @83 - Vacc, GRLMUWT! Especially liked you catching Jack's "I'm with him" line.

@132 Fenway Ben - What's up with all the obsessing over Dharma food drops out of the blue all of a sudden?

@136 Fenway Ben - Thanks for sharing the great pix (Envy Envy!) Looks like someone's grave's been robbed by Eko's church!

@140 Mizzed - Don't believe I expressed appreciation for your car-crash theorizing when you first posted - bravo! I concur - it still holds.

@156 August Paul, with Revelation and undauntid into the 180's - Nice theorizing interplay, y'all! In this season's alt line Daniel is a musician, still alive & well. Interesting that Eloise and Ben, proponents and instruments of the island, had a hand in their children's island-related deaths while the children of Jin & Sun and Claire, who can be seen as victims of the island are safe off-island. Who are the real victims of the island?

@217 Dharmaville - I'm leaning toward Hugo as the dark horse candidate myself.

Responses to Boston Steve's post @228 - Nice Acronymicry!

@246 Cecil - I've declared my allegiance to Fringe & your blog here - it is the OTHER best-written show on TV, IMO. Last week's "Brown Betty" episode is a classic that I believe will ultimately stand with other series' classic fish-out-of-water episodes (Star Trek, Moonlighting and Star Trek TNG come immediately to mind.)

@270 Revelation
@272 Cecil - "Answers!" as muppet Pierre Chang would say in Lost Untangled. By the way The Gangster of LOST stated that "everyone made it but Jin and Sun. Oh, and murdering Sayid." So Chesty survives!?

@306 En Provence (your name makes me want to cook...and eat!)- Great Idea. Hopefully Mac will let this blog go on for a while post-LOST, maybe even with new Mac-style reviews of info periodically? I agree with shikotee that Facebook isn't the place, not just because of aliases (though that's a very good point!) but because this could get lost in all the FB posts. I like the fact that this is a dedicated discussion group that we seek out - the subject matter and present company deserve no less.

@347 shikotee - avoiding those davidrh screams can make for a long post, eh? Damn real world gets in the way.

Your comments in your response to Revelation @200 are REQUIRED READING for those who wish to post from here on out.

Namaste!

#357. Posted by: robinpiney at May 11, 2010 1:43 AM

Didn't get a chance to check out the Twitpic comics.

Click my name to experience Jack's veil of vagueness....

#358. Posted by: shikotee at May 11, 2010 8:59 AM

Jack's powers of self confidence....

#359. Posted by: shikotee at May 11, 2010 9:01 AM

Jack will save everyone.....

#360. Posted by: shikotee at May 11, 2010 9:09 AM

The ghost of Jin has a question....

#361. Posted by: shikotee at May 11, 2010 9:11 AM

@357 robinpiney pondered:

Long week with little post-reading time.
I echo Plain Simple @83 - Vacc, GRLMUWT! Especially liked you catching Jack's "I'm with him" line.

@132 Fenway Ben - What's up with all the obsessing over Dharma food drops out of the blue all of a sudden?

@136 Fenway Ben - Thanks for sharing the great pix (Envy Envy!) Looks like someone's grave's been robbed by Eko's church!

@140 Mizzed - Don't believe I expressed appreciation for your car-crash theorizing when you first posted - bravo! I concur - it still holds.

@156 August Paul, with Revelation and undauntid into the 180's - Nice theorizing interplay, y'all! In this season's alt line Daniel is a musician, still alive & well. Interesting that Eloise and Ben, proponents and instruments of the island, had a hand in their children's island-related deaths while the children of Jin & Sun and Claire, who can be seen as victims of the island are safe off-island. Who are the real victims of the island?

@217 Dharmaville - I'm leaning toward Hugo as the dark horse candidate myself.

Responses to Boston Steve's post @228 - Nice Acronymicry!

@246 Cecil - I've declared my allegiance to Fringe & your blog here - it is the OTHER best-written show on TV, IMO. Last week's "Brown Betty" episode is a classic that I believe will ultimately stand with other series' classic fish-out-of-water episodes (Star Trek, Moonlighting and Star Trek TNG come immediately to mind.)

>@270 Revelation
>@272 Cecil - "Answers!" as muppet Pierre Chang would say in Lost Untangled. By the way The Gangster of LOST stated that "everyone made it but Jin and Sun. Oh, and murdering Sayid." So Chesty survives!?

D&C were non-committal about Lapidus's fate in their latest podcast as well. I've got a feeling he'll turn up.

#362. Posted by: Cecil at May 11, 2010 9:22 AM

My apologiees for that last, I thought I was cutting and pasting just the remarks to me, not the whole thing.

#363. Posted by: Cecil at May 11, 2010 9:24 AM

I too think Lapidus will show up.

#356. Posted by: davidrh: I suppose Kate could be a mole, but I don't think so.

Why is she no longer a candidate? Interesting that there were 2 female candidates, possibly a third (Kwon is ambiguous). Maybe Kate and Claire are no longer candidates because they each left Aaron to be raised by another. For that matter, so did Sun. If those children are "special" as we suspect they are, then Kate, Claire and Sun's candidacy might have been predicated on their willingness to make the protection of those children their first priority.

We know that children are important in this story. And it is beginning to look like "mommy" issues also play a part in the story.

#364. Posted by: undauntid at May 11, 2010 10:43 AM

In regard to Kate's foggy story arc,
remember when we had the first flash forward at the airport?
When Jack was upset that Kate had to go back to "him."
The vast majority thought that meant Sawyer. (We later learned it was Aaron.)

But at the time, I had a creepy thought that "him" was Ben.

#365. Posted by: welh at May 11, 2010 10:59 AM

@347. Posted by: shikotee "re: what is Widmore is after?

No matter what, Widmore believes he is serving humanity. His interpretation of this is what might be sketchy. He believes he is saving the world, and this might actually turn out to be the case. Can't wait till we have more light on this."

I don't think you're the only one giving Widmore a break, but I'll pick on you anyhow. I still think Widmore is lying when he talks about everything ceasing to exist. He may be talking about Widmore ceasing to exist or he may be lying only to get people to do what he wants them to do. I think he is extraordinarily selfish., like the rich man who wants poor people to remain poor so he will have people to look down on. I remember the young Widmore ordering Ben to kill baby Alex, the even younger Widmore who snapped his colleagues neck when the colleague told Juliet (in Latin) where to find the others' camp, or the older supposedly mellower Widmore who wouldn't waste good scotch on Desmond. He is a nasty, arrogant man who cares only for his own agenda which is controlling the power of the island to give himself immortality and power over the lives of others.

But if I am wrong here (as I so often am) I will be the first to be delightfully amused and to apologize publicly for doubting you.

I would like to add that I have been very interested in the Kate doubts expressed above (too lazy to search and give attribution) and will now be watching her like Rose watched Miles (still one of my favorite lines.)


#366. Posted by: August Paul at May 11, 2010 12:56 PM

I hope that tonights epi addresses the rules a bit as well other things with MIB and Jacob. Is it a s simple as a king can't take a king like in chess, or is it more complicated?

#367. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 1:11 PM

I hope that tonights epi addresses the rules a bit as well other things with MIB and Jacob. Is it a s simple as a king can't take a king like in chess, or is it more complicated?

#368. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 1:14 PM

#365. Posted by: welh
But at the time, I had a creepy thought that "him" was Ben.

I thought the same thing ... sure glad it wasn't.

Wonder what Ben's fate will ultimately be?

#369. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 11, 2010 1:51 PM

This probably is not very important at this point, but on the sub dock, why would the snipers shoot Kate? They had Jack, Claire, and Sayid as targets as well. Furthermore, why did the gunmen wait until Locke was no longer on the dock, but in the water? Even furthermore, why was the dock not heavily guarded as Locke said it would be?

#370. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 2:20 PM

I don't think the snipers shot Kate. I think it was MIB/Locke, knowing Jack would grab her and get her out of harms way into the sub. It was the only way MIB could get Jack in the sub.
Don't know about the other questions ... maybe MIB/Locke held the guards at bay until he could get off a shot at Kate ... who knows

#371. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 11, 2010 3:21 PM

I don't think the snipers shot Kate. I think it was MIB/Locke, knowing Jack would grab her and get her out of harms way into the sub. It was the only way MIB could get Jack in the sub.
Don't know about the other questions ... maybe MIB/Locke held the guards at bay until he could get off a shot at Kate ... who knows

#372. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 11, 2010 3:23 PM

#370. Revelation ___ The dock wasn't heavily guarded because Flocke wanted them to get on the sub. They shot Kate because they knew Jack would grab her and carry her onto the sub. Had they shot Sayid, he would have managed on his own, had they shot Claire, Sayid would have grabbed her and carried her on board.

But here is the big question about all the hullabaloo on Hydra Island: Why, when Smokey was in full murderous bloom, didn't he kill Widmore and the bulk of his crew instead of a couple of lackeys at the cages? Because MIB and Smokey are in cahoots, that's what I'm thinking.

#373. Posted by: undauntid at May 11, 2010 3:27 PM

geesh....MIB and Widmore are in cahoots. Which is also why the dock was unguarded. and why the plane was lightly guarded.

#374. Posted by: undauntid at May 11, 2010 3:33 PM

VERY Interesting theory about the canoe shoot out scene found on another site

"The Losties are traveling on the canoe were John(the original), Charlotte, Daniel, Miles, Juliet, and Sawyer. They begin to be shot at by what appears to be 3 people. Juliet turns around and fires her gun at them. One of these mysterious men appears to be shot.

Here is the kicker. What if these three men were Richard, Ben, and Miles traveling to try an blow up the Ajira plane. They might be following what appears to them to be FLOCKE and his followers. They are on the canoe perhaps for easy travel around the island. Wouldn't it be dramatic for them to be shot. Think, they are on a mission to stop FLOCKE, then they see a canoe with him in it. The time shifting Miles says to Juliet "Are these your people?" and she responds "No, are they yours?" This would be funny if Miles was the one shooting from the other canoe."

Thanx to Sosquatch

#375. Posted by: Kompletely Lost at May 11, 2010 3:37 PM

If the Widmore/Flocke conspiracy is true, then Widmores people have an extreemly low life expectancy. The are seamingly expendable and simply serve a Flocke Food!

#376. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 3:38 PM

#376.Revelation ___ I think Flocke has cut a deal with Widmore... Get me off this island, help me eliminate the candidates, and you can have the island to do with what you will unencumbered by do-gooders.

The problem with that theory is Desmond. Why did Widmore bring Desmond back? The only thing I can think of is that Widmore hopes to double cross Flocke by using Desmond to put the genie back in the bottle...after which Widmore will do with what he will unencumbered by either do-gooders or do-badders.

#377. Posted by: undauntid at May 11, 2010 4:34 PM

@377 - Undauntid I can buy your theory about widmore making a deal w/MIB then doublecrossing him with Desmond. I am not sure why you referenced my entry @376. It was not my theory... I did not said anything about widmore and Flocke in 376; my point was just that widmore must not have told his henchmen just how meaningless their lives were. Hence the Flocke-Food reference.

#378. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 4:53 PM

@375. Posted by: Kompletely Lost

another take ...

The canoe could have had four on it, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, and Kate. Kate was laying down, and Sawyer was shooting. They were on their way to the main island when they encounter the other canoe.

#379. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 5:22 PM

There's an interesting article on TVSquad.com on the 25 favorite Lost guest stars, and where are they now? With special section on stars shared with Deadwood.

Click my name to go.

#380. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2010 5:24 PM

MIB plays good role in Deadwood

#381. Posted by: Revelation at May 11, 2010 5:37 PM

Did we actually see Sun and Jin drown? All I saw was their hands releasing from each other - sure she probably did because she was physically trapped - but he wasn't - think about that- could we see him again - especially since we saw him pass Jack and Locke in the hall at the hospital in the sideways flash?

#382. Posted by: S at May 11, 2010 5:41 PM

Nah, artistic integrity demands that Jin dies. Lapidus, on the other hand...

#383. Posted by: Cecil Rose at May 11, 2010 5:57 PM

@366. Posted by: August Paul
re: what is Widmore is after?

Without a doubt, Widmore is a flawed human being. With that said, I think you are mistaking arrogance with selfishness.

Yeah - young and old Widmore has been a total A-hole many a times. All the more reason as to why he would make a compelling character serving good.

Think of Widmore as a Darth Vadar archetype, which fits well when you consider the various SW references.
This was a person who did good things, then many many horrible things.
If you did not meet his expectations, your windpipe would tingle, followed by darkness. Despite all of the horrible things that he did, he saved his son (and the universe) by offing his boss.

I believe Widmore is a similar morally flawed character, much like Ben and Sayid have been. Like Eloise, he lived with the knowledge that his son will die. For this reason, protecting Penny is priority #1. For Widmore, other people are like ants, unless they serve a bigger purpose. As such, they are inconsequential.

I think Widmore believes that what he is doing will protect the world, and thus protect Penny. In pursuing this goal, many ants could get crushed, maimed, and destroyed. He cares not about such things.

Worse yet - his interpretation of things could be flawed.

It will be interesting to see how things play out...

#384. Posted by: shikotee at May 11, 2010 6:15 PM

In Oklahoma: LOST started promptly at 8pm

#385. Posted by: undauntid at May 11, 2010 9:00 PM

@384 Posted by shikotee You make a compelling case for Widmore yet I cannot bring myself to place him in the same category as Ben and Sayid. Your comparison with Darth Vader is an interesting one, but following that story line would require Widmore to have a compelling reason to repent and redeem himself. Darth Vader was moved to save his son. Who will move Widmore thus?

Just watched tonight's episode and my brain is so numb that all I can think is who is the father of Jacob and whozit? Did they actually say MIB's name? If so, I missed it. Will wait for Mac's recap.

#386. Posted by: August Paul at May 11, 2010 11:05 PM

He was a 'son', a 'brother'...but the MIB never had a name. Gee, my head hurts!

#387. Posted by: MySoulmateDigsLost at May 11, 2010 11:21 PM

Guess those two characters will just have to be called Adam and Eve!

#388. Posted by: MySoulmateDigsLost at May 11, 2010 11:24 PM

lol nothing was explained in this episode except how MIB became smokey. guess we have to wait for the finale to get all the answers

#389. Posted by: Lost Fan at May 11, 2010 11:45 PM

["If Jack is correct, then the only way they could be killed is by each other - but Sawyer isn't prepared to bet his life on that so soon after watching Juliet die because of Jack's last great idea. I'm with Sawyer on this one - I'd start pulling wires too."]


I do blame Sawyer, because he should have known that Jack was solely to blame for the Incident. It was Daniel Farrady's idea to set off the bomb. After his death, Jack was determined to continue with the idea. But in the end, it wasn't Jack who set off the bomb. It was Juliet who made the decision on her own.

Sawyer should have known this. But true to his character, he needed a sole scapegoat to blame for his pain. And he chose Jack.

#390. Posted by: Rosie at May 15, 2010 3:42 AM

it's interesting so many people keep talking about "doughboy." He was the one Widmore lacky that really irked me and i couldn't put my finger on why. I kept feeling he was somehow both stupid and somehow evil. Then I realized the actor had a role on an episode of "The Mentalist" last season where he played the part of a down-syndrome man. Only later you find out he was an evil killer faking his mental illness the whole time for his own sick amusement. While I know I shouldn't base my feelings on Widmore on a casting call... I still feel it's hard to trust him since he hired on "doughboy" Oh yeah, and also killed Alex (indirectly), threatened to kill Juliet, ect ect.

#391. Posted by: latejoiner at May 22, 2010 4:45 AM