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Author Topic:   The Matrix 2 & 3
NeoMorph
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posted 05-27-2003 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoMorph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my reading some time ago I found that the matrix is actually a VERY BIG version of Manhattan. Funny how we have never seen any corn fields, west coats surfers, etc. But hell someone could blow my hypo out of the water with the castle being up in the mountains, 500 miles away.

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The Omega
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posted 05-27-2003 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Omega     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, it is 99,9% of the test subjects. And since some of the Zion residents are born in the human city, it’s impossible to tell how many humans are plugged in.
The Architect, however, tells us that 0,01% of humans do not accept the program. That doesn’t mean they’re unplugged like Neo, Trinity or the rest was. They just constitute that escalating probability of disaster.

I agree partly with furiousgeorge, that Neo is more than just ”a” One. He could be the One. However, in M1, the Oracle is right. Neo does die. The Oracle says that he had the potential, but seemed to be waiting for something, maybe his next life. Neo is brought back to life by something the machines do not comprehend. Human emotion. And becomes The One. The Architect is right, too. Trinity does die. In both M1 and M2 we see the screens go flatline.
Neo turned out ”all right”, as the Oracle says (I’m still puzzled as to whether or not it was just a piece of RED candy she gave him), and he has even made a believer out of HER.
The Architect even tells us that Neo is “faster” than his predecessors, and has experienced humans emotions far more specific. So for love he’s willing to risk all of humanity. Or did he realise something that we haven’t yet?
I only know for sure, that I don’t have to be plugged into my TV to turn it off. I just need a remote-control.

Neo tells Morpheus that the prophecy is a lie. Who knows what Neo will say when he wakes up again? Maybe he finally realised the truth?

------------------
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire

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nupe494
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posted 05-27-2003 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nupe494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if anyone has brought this up or not yet...but Neo never returned to the source. He chose to save Trinity instead. Also, Trinity did die in M2 just as Neo died in M1. They were both brought back to life one way or the other. So neither the Oracle nor the Architect were wrong.

Some seem to think that Zion was destroyed and I didn't get that impression from M2. Only that the counter-attack was destroyed. Why else would the machines start digging again?

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DoogsDC
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posted 05-27-2003 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DoogsDC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Omega:
Actually, it is 99,9% of the test subjects. And since some of the Zion residents are born in the human city, it’s impossible to tell how many humans are plugged in.
The Architect, however, tells us that 0,01% of humans do not accept the program. That doesn’t mean they’re unplugged like Neo, Trinity or the rest was. They just constitute that escalating probability of disaster.

I agree partly with furiousgeorge, that Neo is more than just ”a” One. He could be the One. However, in M1, the Oracle is right. Neo does die. The Oracle says that he had the potential, but seemed to be waiting for something, maybe his next life. Neo is brought back to life by something the machines do not comprehend. Human emotion. And becomes The One. The Architect is right, too. Trinity does die. In both M1 and M2 we see the screens go flatline.
Neo turned out ”all right”, as the Oracle says (I’m still puzzled as to whether or not it was just a piece of RED candy she gave him), and he has even made a believer out of HER.
The Architect even tells us that Neo is “faster” than his predecessors, and has experienced humans emotions far more specific. So for love he’s willing to risk all of humanity. Or did he realise something that we haven’t yet?
I only know for sure, that I don’t have to be plugged into my TV to turn it off. I just need a remote-control.

Neo tells Morpheus that the prophecy is a lie. Who knows what Neo will say when he wakes up again? Maybe he finally realised the truth?



Alright then man, 99.9%. That's 250,000 X 1000 = 250,000,000. 249,750,000 still left in the real world. That makes a little more sense. It's definately not 6 billion, rather, its 4.1% of the actual world population. You'd think the Matrixians would figure something's a little strange.

However, couldn't the "scientific authorities" tell everyone that 6 billion people lived and the world and everyone would believe it? Think about yourself. Do you know that 6 billion people live in the world? Do you know each of them? You just know the census or the world almanac did some calculations and made up the figure. You rely on them for accuracy. Maybe there are only 1 billion people on the planet and the authorities delude us into believing there are more so they can control population growth. Canada is the only country I've been to outside the U.S.

China and Japan and Europe may be imaginary. Maybe everyone around me is programmed to believe that they exist. Maybe the pictures and videos are all bogus holographic projections and CGI.

Just kidding. But it kind of makes you wonder a little bit.

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stiletto
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posted 05-27-2003 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stiletto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont know how many of you out there have played Enter the Matrix, but today I found a transcript of a scene from the game where Niobe and the "new" Oracle are talking about what has to happen. Makes for some interesting reading and I want to know what everyone thinks it means.............
http://www.moviexplosion.com/niobe.html

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Brenson
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posted 05-27-2003 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brenson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the councilor was the one, there are somethings that must be true. The 100 years of fighting should be a lie, but only a lie told by all the councilors, to keep the people in check. When the councilor says that he can't believe some of the stuff that neo does, that would support the theory that Neo is the ACUAL One, and not the machine supported "ones" in the past (i.e. the past five). I think that with the Matrix the truth lies somewhere BETWEEN the lies, whether it be concious, or unconcious. Like it is said by the Oracle, we already know the choices we make, we just need to learn to understand them.

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WRLunatic
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posted 05-27-2003 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WRLunatic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,
I have enjoyed the conversation throughout this topic. I would pose two questions which may not go in line with the MiM thoery, but they may have some bearing on the characters.

1) Who was the operator for Cypher in M1? Doesn't a person need an operator to load into the Matrix and also get an exit?
2) Is there any signifigance in the conversation at the begining of M1 between Trinity and Cypher? I ssem to recall words to the effect of Trinity liking to "watch" him and Cypher stating that "We'll have to kill him."
I look forward to your combined insight into this matter.

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Casper314
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posted 05-28-2003 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Casper314     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FYI - I started a separate forum to discuss the game "Enter the Matrix".

Click on Spotlight above to see a list of all the forums.

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HoriRori
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posted 05-28-2003 04:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for HoriRori     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Misery restrains us from higher thought.

Some support for the theory that Zion is a type of Matrix itself:

Separately, Smith and the Architect inform our heroes that the first Matrix was a paradise, and that humans could not accept such an ideal world. "Entire crops were lost". The solution was to make a Matrix with everyday miseries, our world of 1999. This Matrix, with it's everyday distractions, is accepted by the vast majority of humanity.

However, some small percentage of people do not accept this Matrix, either. Following the same theory, a solution might be to offer these humans another world of even greater misery and conflict, that is to say, Zion.

Perhaps, as crisis approaches for the machines, a further stage of misery may distract the humans from pondering the higher truth. Hence, bring war to their doorstep. War is a great distraction from reality.

It has never been in the best interest of the Machine to allow humans even the opportunity to observe and philosophise.

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NeoMorph
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posted 05-28-2003 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoMorph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, I will say this again. The councilor is not the pervious "one". If Morpheus was not lying in M1...by telling Neo that "before he(the one) died, he prophesized his return, and that return would mean the end of the war..."

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WWFWWF
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posted 05-28-2003 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WWFWWF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wino monkey you retard, that bane guy isnt actuallt agent smith he has just been taken over by him!

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NeoMorph
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posted 05-28-2003 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoMorph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
CYpher doesn't say "we have to kill him"...he says "we are going to kill him".
He also says "you like watching him, don't you".


Those statements still confuse me. Maybe Trinity is/was like Cypher...tired of the real world. Somewhere floating around the ney people are saying that Trinity is/was an informant like Cypher. Hmm...

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The Omega
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posted 05-28-2003 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Omega     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neo didn’t actually go through the door in the Architects room to get to the source. But he could have interacted with it, when he stepped through the door that turned into light and transported him to the Architect.
Having had contact with the Source might explain why Neo can suddenly stop the sentinels – part of his mind is now in the machine main-frame. That realisation more than stopping the sentinels might have caused him to collapse.

DoogsDC> Just that people in the Matrix does not accept the program, doesn’t mean they become unplugged. They’ll just be like Neo at the beginning of M1. Restless, knowing something is wrong, but unable to figure out what it is.
If we dig into the, ”how do you know there are 6 billion people on Earth” none of us do of course. *Head spins.*

WRLunatic> GOOD question. Who operated Cypher in M1 when he talked to Smith?
In the beginning of M1 Trinity and Cypher are not in the same place, as the agents trace the line. That Trinity likes watching Neo is perhaps not so strange, considering what the Oracle told her.
Cypher says ”We’re going to kill him, you understand that?”
However, after that Trinity says something along the lines of Morpheus believing he’s the One. Who knows? Maybe our heroes have to protect themselves from being found out by people still plugged into the Matrix, when they’re too old to be unplugged? Cypher may simply have been playing a jalousi-scare card against her.

Stiletto: Well, first of all it seems to mean, that the Oracle is on the side of the rebels. She’s programmed to send Neo to the Source, and as I pondered below, he has made a believer out of her (The Oracle). There seems to be a lot of emphasis on choice. And the reasons behind choices. If what the Oracle says in said transcript is the truth it makes a lot of sense, and the matrix-within-the-matrix theory is not needed anymore to explain why Neo could suddenly stop the sentinels.
Actually… It makes for an utterly great plot-twist, which is in line with the M1 and M2. That love can save the day. But it also seems to imply, that Neo is indeed the prophesised One, not The One the machines managed to tweak into their programming, but the real One. I mean, imagine the first One (the one Morpheus refers to in M1), finding his way to the Architect the first time. He chooses to save humanity and Zion.
Knowing what he does, that the anomaly will reappear, he makes the prophecy. The machines prepare their version and for five times it has looped, and the AI’s been able to catch it. They let 24 humans rebuild Zion, so they have something to black-mail the anomaly with.
But for whatever reason the Oracle now chooses to help humanity.

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WWFWWF
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posted 05-28-2003 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WWFWWF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Architect:

=He is a programme which is why he lived so long


What codes does the one have, why is the code needed to reload the matrix the 6th time?

=

Why does neo have to chose which door when he meets the designer, why doesnt he just get forced?

=

why are the equations unbalanced and why would the matrix crash, why would all humans die

=becuase it would?

How did neo stop the sentinels?

=Possibly, if it is not a matrix inside a matrix, then neo used brain waves that only travelled a short range and took
all his energy which is why he fainted, he may have a connection with the machines, because Agent Smith said
that when they connected something happened, a connection.

What was neo meant to do once he got to the source?

=

Who was he french guy and his lady, are they computer programmes, if not are they like neo, trinity or
if they are normal people why dont agents take them over?

=

What are the twins?

=Deleted programmes originally created in conjunction with the beliefs of people, that gosts etc. exist. Once deleted
they were ordered to return to the mainframe, the source, but instead rebelled and joined forces with the french guy.
they cannot be truly hurt because ghosts are programmed as dead and unharmable

Why do the twins work for the French guy?

=

What does Agent Smith intend to do now he is deleted, kill neo?

=

How do the doors work?

=The doors are normal doors, but because it is a computer system, when a special key opens the door it loads a
different section of the program, the door leads to a hall of doors which, if open into certain areas, such as countries
with mountains or just parks etc. The door neo uses leads to the source only he can enter.

Why will the matrix break down if neo does not return to the source?

=

Why can't agents fly?

=agents cant fly because there computer programed as humans, and if they flew public would be supiciou. Morpheus
says , that there strength and speed are based on rules which is why they shall never be as strong as neo can be.

Why did the first matrix fail?

=It was a graden of eden, people kept trying to wake up from a dream

The theory of the current matrix?

=The intuitive program (Persephone?) figured out that a choice had to be given to each person.
Most people would accept (99%), but a few wouldn't. This solution, as the Architect was fully aware
was still fundamentally flawed and would result in unbalanced equations which eventually would
result in an anomaly such as Neo. Such an anomaly would have to be found and returned to the
source so his code could be disperesed, distributed and spread out.

Why did zion survive so long?

=ASSUMING that they are removed into the ‘real world’ (eg. as Neo was removed in the first Matrix) it appears
that the machines were unable to tell which humans rejected the programming and/or were unable to figure
out which human would be the anomaly. This explains why the humans who rejected the programming simply
weren’t terminated and leads to the purpose of Zion. The machines allow the freed minds to ‘escape’ from the
matrix to Zion knowing that the 'The One' would be found eventually and re-enter the Matrix.
The question arises as to whether the machines created Zion or it was a result of the first human resistance.
Once, 'The One' was found and inside the Matrix again, the architect planned for 'prophecies' to eventually lead
the one back to the source. Meanwhile, in reality, once it was discovered that 'The One' was found
(they would know this once they saw him kicking agent ass) and was nearing the end of the path set out
by the prophecies the machines would begin digging toward Zion to destroy it as planned.

The prophecy:

=The prophecy was made up by the architect who new of rejection and the prophecy was made to give them something
to fight for, and to lead neo the one into returning to the source

The oracle is always right:

=She tells neo he is not the one, but is waiting for something, maybe the, 'next life' and he is killed in the hallway and
comes back into the nex tlife as the one when he kills the agent Smith, and stops bullets.

Why does the oracle help neo and trinity etc. when she is a computer programme?

=

What was the objective of the key maker?

=

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the hoodedtraveler83
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posted 05-28-2003 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the hoodedtraveler83     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mariosgr12:
...can someone explain to me why, if the Keymaster was so important for the rebooting of the Matrix, why did the agents try to kill him? Without him, Neo wouldn't be able to enter the source. He wouldn't even have learned about the server-building!

I believe that the agents were not programmed with this knowledge. They did not know the integral part that he played; they only knew that he was an exile and was to be destroyed (beyond that, a very powerful exile who held keys to special doors). I could be wrong though.

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Majmun
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posted 05-28-2003 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Majmun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't read the forums lately so I don't know if my next statement has been established or not. Anyways, Zion hasn't been destroyed yet. If you listen to that guy at the end talking about what happened, he said that someone set off the EMP too early and it didn't affect the machines, then the machines broke through-to where the ships were-and destroyed everyone except for one survivor-then the machines continued digging. So, if the machines continued digging, they are still headed for Zion.

[This message has been edited by Majmun (edited 05-28-2003).]

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wazoo
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posted 05-28-2003 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wazoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well Guys!

Besides these spectacular theories and stuff we should not forget the main issues of the movies!

1. We got neo - (according to this tale) he must be the one to break the circle! Like "many" of you said before, he must be the real one! Why is that? Some think that he isn't simular to the past Neo - but this time the oracle did her job well and manipulated the whole scene, so that trinity and neo felt in love - a love that gives hope - and a hope that lets neo finally take the right choice (choosing the right door - nobody can question that). so basically in a very reduced explanation, it is nothing but a fight between the oracle (mother) and the architect (father).

2. on the other hand we must think of what the architect said! He said that neo is nothing but an anomaly - mathematic imperfection! But at this point remember that the architect tried to deceive neo im making the right choice! this time according to his hope and love to trinity he didn't fail. the others failed - but what i do question now, is did the other neos also have the ability to controll physics in reality? If they don't the prophecy we constantly hear about is referring to the whole - not to every single neo! He must be the real choosen-one!

3. Being aware of the whole story is telling me so much, but basically telling one single story or philosophy! It is the main issue of the matrix movies!

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shaun_lee30
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posted 05-28-2003 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shaun_lee30     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey everyone, just saw the movie and wanted to ask a question. I know that alot of people think that Zion may be a part of the matrix and that is why Neo could still control the sentinals. Which could very well be. What I was wondering is if it had something to do with Bain triggering the EMP device. Maybe Neo doesn't have power in the "real world" he just got lucky that Bain is taken over by an agent. Neo could have been affected by it because he was so close to the sentinals when the EMP device effected them. Only problem is that the machines would have had to destroy the other ships really quick, and continue their dig really quick after the sabotage. Just a thought.

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jletcher
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posted 05-28-2003 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jletcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WR has a very good point. In M1, Cypher met with Agent Smith in the Matrix. Who was Cypher's operator and how did Cypher get into the Matrix for the meeting without someone on the ship helping? And how did Cypher know where and when to meet Smith?

The discussion is fascinating and probably endless.

In the older Scifi novels, characters were frequently able to discover mental abilities that were fantastic. The ability to read minds or to teleport oneself come to mind. I recall one such story where the main character is basically told he can defy gravity and walk across a chasm if he believes strongly enough and frees his mind, which he does. If the W brothers are scifi fans, they may have something like that in mind for Neo, rather than a matrix in matrix.

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HooMaster
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posted 05-28-2003 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for HooMaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe I'm confused, but the Matrix in a Matrix theory seems very plausible to me.

The 1% of those who will wake up is not an acceptable number to the architect, and thus he created a boundry matrix that included Zion so those who woke up from the secondary Matrix would be more willing to accept its reality. They would feel like they had a choice to rebel and destroy the machines.

It also seems to me that all those people who appear to have more power than Neo (the architect, the Oracle, the Frenchie) are concious in the Real-Real World and are jacking in the the secondary Matrix for the purpose of harnessing the power it generates.

When Neo stopped the Sentinals, he had awoken to this idea of Zion being part of a Matrix, and this may have had an impact on his brain in the Real-Real world, causing him to slip into a coma-like state.

Does anyone believe I have any valid points?

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rimi
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posted 05-28-2003 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rimi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
all those beautiful speculations about Zion being or not second level of matrix are based on belief that everything said by Architect is true.. of course, it's logic to assume that movie would become too sophisticated for average audiences, but think and read carefully previous posts - it is still uncertain if Oracle is really helping Mr. Anderson (not just guiding in wanted direction).. so, all s/w controlled or purely integrated within matrix, could be programmed to lead the threat (mr. anderson) to the source, where he could be eliminated.. and the main purpose of Architect's speech was to de-motivate and convince mr. anderson to choose the right door.. why still choices? well, actually, in Architect's opinion, considering his arrogance, there where no choices already (if he chooses source, elimination of mr. anderson and machines effortlessly destroy Zion; if he chooses ms Moss, he returns to Zion with great news like "we are doomed"), i suppose he wasn't aware of mr. anderson's new ability to control machines without direct connection to matrix and without such control men are truly forceless against machines in real world..

ok, i admit there are several weak points in this version, for instance, why elimination by entering source? - well, i suppose even such powerful force like mr. anderson couldnt destroy kernel otherwise machines are too stupid to protect their peace of art.. and remember, mr. Andreson had no choice behind "the correct" door even in logical version, just to choose 23 men/women and leave to Zion..

or here's second weak point - why to guide mr. anderson at all - he can play superman, fly around, eat ice-cream and have cool chicks, but think - by doing so, he motivates people to re-think their lives etc., he can even become icon of political parties who struggle for independence or take part in ads "JOIN ZION FOR FREE!" and so on. in other words - create unnecessary circus.. i just don't understand machines - they could create let's say - 15 million agents in civil dress, to invite mr. anderson to some desert, fight him there while capturing Morpheus, getting codes of Zion mainframe from him and live happily ever after.. well, it's hollywood, i know, but as someone said - no happyend (c) wachowski bros? let's wait and see..


ahhhh, the great power of interpretations

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MRM
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posted 05-28-2003 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MRM     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HooMaster:
Maybe I'm confused, but the Matrix in a Matrix theory seems very plausible to me.

The 1% of those who will wake up is not an acceptable number to the architect, and thus he created a boundry matrix that included Zion so those who woke up from the secondary Matrix would be more willing to accept its reality. They would feel like they had a choice to rebel and destroy the machines.

It also seems to me that all those people who appear to have more power than Neo (the architect, the Oracle, the Frenchie) are concious in the Real-Real World and are jacking in the the secondary Matrix for the purpose of harnessing the power it generates.

When Neo stopped the Sentinals, he had awoken to this idea of Zion being part of a Matrix, and this may have had an impact on his brain in the Real-Real world, causing him to slip into a coma-like state.

Does anyone believe I have any valid points?


this has already been discussed and I agree with some of the points you made. Zion could very well be a higher level of the matrix designed to give the 1% the illusion of choice and hence act as another level of control (a running theme in the second movie).

But I think you missed the point of the oracles speech - she clearly states that she as well as many others in the matrix are 'programs'. So the Merovingian and his henchmen, along with the oracle and the architect are not 'jacked' into the matrix, they are programs within the matrix.

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mariosgr12
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posted 05-28-2003 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mariosgr12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think there is a URL somewhere in the internet, listing all the "sources of inspiration" that the Wachowski Brothers used in creating the "Matrix".It includes:
a)the novel "Neuromancer"
b)the book "Simulacra and Simulation"
c)the anime "Ghost in the shell"
and other things. If somebody has seen it anywhere, could he please post the URL?

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AndreasG2000
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posted 05-28-2003 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndreasG2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MRM:
this has already been discussed and I agree with some of the points you made. Zion could very well be a higher level of the matrix designed to give the 1% the illusion of choice and hence act as another level of control (a running theme in the second movie).

But I think you missed the point of the oracles speech - she clearly states that she as well as many others in the matrix are 'programs'. So the Merovingian and his henchmen, along with the oracle and the architect are not 'jacked' into the matrix, they are programs within the matrix. [/QUO

The wachowski brothers have acheived exactally what they have intended to do with the 2nd installment of the matrix, they have used it so that viewers become confused and have jaded conseptions of what the matrix actually is.

In the first matrix it was very clear and a little boring knowing that it was man against machine, matrix vs zion ( and underground society)and for the more educated viewers would be seen as a little basic. But the matrix reloaded adds a whole different side to the equation, i came out after seeing it not knowing what had gone on. But soon began to realise that the film was designed to misguide us, so dont read to much into the matrix inside the matrix thoery because the third part is the last peice of the puzzle and will clear everything up

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NeoMorph
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posted 05-28-2003 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoMorph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What actually did happen when Neo held out his hand and the sentinels stopped, sputtered, and fell down.

Well Bane/Agent Smith was unconcious on the ship when Neo did his magic trick so the "Bane EMP" theory is out the window.

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nupe494
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posted 05-28-2003 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nupe494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does everyone believe that the Architect was lying when he called Neo the "result" of the anomoly and not the anomoly itself?

Also, the Architect didn't seem a bit surprised by Neo's decision. Thus far everything the Oracle has said has come true. What is any different about Neo's decision in M2 than in M1? That being in his belief that he could save Trinity and mankind. Why would he believe in fate at this point?

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ninj4
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posted 05-28-2003 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ninj4     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a few things to say...first about the books that someone mentioned. I looked into it and found that the book Neuromancy is part on in a trilogy of books. The first Neuromancy, the 2nd Count Zero, and the 3rd Mona Lisa Overdrive (yes....a song on the reloaded soundtrack is also called this)....and there there is Simularc and Simulation which happens to be one of the most boring books ever...but also genius at the same time. Another intresting book is called Out of Control by Kevin Kelley.

Now on to what I think and believe. Lets start with Neo....why the hell can he stop these sentinals?....well...I'll have to agree with WWFWWF...I think it has something to do with Smith...heres why:

1. Smtih says something happend...some kind of connection.
2. In the first movie Morpheus says The agent are sentinate programs...or in other words they can control the sentinals.
3. At the end Bane is in a "coma" also...now we all know that bane is smith...smith transferred himself into Bane's body...(you all know its true...stop denying it)...now...Bane was also in this coma state...what if maybe he did the same thing that neo did to save himself from the sentinals...he was the only survivor..and he was in the same state as neo at the end....or so it looked...or maybe he was controlling the sentinals....and yes..ive thought about the fact that smith is no longer an agent...but we all know that he is an incredibly powerful program....this can make everything possible.
4. The only reason Neo is able to stop them...or feel the sentinals now is because smith is now in the real world...the connection between them is now not only in the matrix...but also in the real world.

This last one here is just something i kinda of thought of....
5. Persephone...Now why would she just want a kiss...and why did she put on lipstick...I just find it kinda strange...and you can hear a faint buzzing noise as there coming out of the kiss. I think she may have a bigger part then we all think.

Something else that has been bothering me in the movie was the scene as Morpheus, Neo, and Trinity walk up to the French Guy. Neo has some very distinct Eye contact with a man that is being taken away...At first i thought this was the keymaker...cause i wasnt paying attention....but I saw the movie again (actually 6 times now...helps working at the theater and getting in for free) and this man is spanish...or something along those lines....but there is a distinct eye contact between both of them.

Well...if you have anything that might add to my thought...feel free to email me or post...later. NINJ4

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EBOLA
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posted 05-28-2003 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EBOLA     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Majmun:
I haven't read the forums lately so I don't know if my next statement has been established or not. Anyways, Zion [b]hasn't been destroyed yet. If you listen to that guy at the end talking about what happened, he said that someone set off the EMP too early and it didn't affect the machines, then the machines broke through-to where the ships were-and destroyed everyone except for one survivor-then the machines continued digging. So, if the machines continued digging, they are still headed for Zion.

[This message has been edited by Majmun (edited 05-28-2003).][/B]


This is an obvious reference to the Animatrix episode the flight of the osiris.

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NeoMorph
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posted 05-28-2003 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NeoMorph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is a Game and movie SPOILER ******

In the game, one of the scenes is that all of the crew members on Bane's ship appear to be dead, and Bane is walking down the platform.


Now saying this...I believe that Bane set off the SHIP EMP and not one of his own. That is killed everyone and took over the ship, fired the ship EMP, and screwed everything up. I may change my mind about this later.

K-

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no. 47
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posted 05-29-2003 03:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for no. 47     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think the mother of the matrix is someone who hasn't been introduced yet, because that I have a strong feeling about the voice from the Revolutions trailer is hers and I don't seem to recognize it from anyone else.

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markjoes
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posted 05-29-2003 05:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for markjoes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PERSEPHONE

okay people a bit of a history lesson here on the greek myths. To know Persephone, you need to look at the greek myths. I have found this:
The beautiful daughter of Demeter (The Mother?) and Zeus (Architect?), Persephone is the focus of the story resulting in the division of the seasons, giving us the sweetness of Spring and the bitterness of Winter.

Hades (Merovignian) did not woo the beautiful Persephone, he abducted her and took her to his underground kingdom. After much protest, Persephone came to love the cold blooded king of the underworld but her mother, Demeter (The Mother?), was consumed with rage and sorrow. She demonstrated her anger by punishing the earth’s inhabitants, gentle and fierce with bitter cold and blustering winds (pursuance of Zion?).
Unless Persephone was returned of to her mother’s side, the earth would perish.

NOTE ON MEROVIGNIAN

* Part of legend of Merovignian....is thatthe beginning of the bloodline came from a sea creature that came out of ocean in Mediterranian his name Merovee. When already pregnant by her husband King Clodio
Merovee's Mother supposedly went swimming in the ocean in the water she is said
to have been seduced and or raped by an unidentified marine creature from beyond the sea Beast of Neptune similar to a "quinotaur".

NOTE: Do you remember those statues in Merovignians mansion!!!!


Herakles (Neo) came to the rescue. He entered the kingdom of Hades and negotiated a compromise between the (usually cold and selfish) Hades (Merovignian) and the (usually loving and caring) Demeter (The Mother?_ . All agreed that Persephone would to spend part of the year with her husband, Hades (Merovignian), and part of the year with her mother, Demeter (The Mother?).

NOTE ON HERAKLES (Neo)

* The skyphos in the Mount Holyoke College Museum shows similar scenes on both sides of the main body-that of a seated Herakles (Neo), accompanied by Athena (Trinity?) and Hermes (Morpheus), and on either side, below the handles, are included two goat-like creatures. These scenes show Herakles (Neo) at the end of his labors and his life on earth as a mortal. He is in fact the only one among the many heroes to undergo an apotheosis, thereby securing for himself a seat amidst the blessed immortals on Olympus.

When Persephone is with Hades (Merovignian) the earth is wracked by the sorrow of her mother. But, when Persephone returns from the underworld to walk the earth again, Demeter pours forth the blessings of Spring to welcome her beloved daughter home.

Well this is my theory anyway?

The Mother will ask Neo to return her daughter Persephone (Architects daughter) from Merovginian?

[This message has been edited by markjoes (edited 05-29-2003).]

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markjoes
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posted 05-29-2003 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for markjoes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DEMETER - goddess of agriculture and fertility (The Mother)

She is mother nature; goddess of the harvest, fertility. She has a gentle character, but once her ire brought about a disaster. Hades (Merovignian) fell in love with Demeter's daughter, Persephone, and went to Zeus (architect) for permission to marry her. Zeus (architect) would not offend his brother with an outright refusal, but knowing that Demeter (The Mother) would not wish her daughter committed to Tartarus (a place of punishment for sinners in Greek myth), he answered that he neither gave nor withheld his consent. This was enough for Hades (Merovignian). As Persephone was picking flowers newar Eleusis, the earth opened, and Hades (Merovignian) in his chariot drawn by black hors es carried the shrieking girl down to Tartarus. Demeter (The Mother) searched in vain for her daughter, until Triptolemus, who had seen the abduction, told his story. Demeter (The Mother) was so angry, that instead of returning to Olympus, she wandered about the earth forbidding any plants to yield fruit (the human crop), until the race of humans approached extinction.

NOTE ON TRIPTOLEMUS

* Triptolemus received from Demeter (The Mother) a chariot of winged dragons and wheat with which, flying through the sky, he sowed the whole inhabited earth. - possibly could be the sower of the human fields.

Zeus (architect) sent Hermes with a message to Hades (Merovignian - rogue program?), "Return Persephone, or we are all undone!" and another message to Demeter (The Mother), "You may have your daughter back, if she has not tasted the food of the dead. (The Cake?)" Persephone had not eaten anything since the abduction (and so had not been re-programmed). Hades (Merovignian) hid his anger at the message and told her, "You seem unhappy here, and your mother cries for you. So, I have decided to send you home."

NOTE ON HERMES (new character for Revolutions???)

* Hermes is the messenger of Zeus and the herald of the gods. To him is ascribed the introduction of the sending of embassies to sue for peace. Hermes, the robber and cattle driver, the prince of tricksters, the thief at the gates, the bringer of dreams (The connection to the Matrix?), the patron of travellers, is also the governor of the tongue, and the guide of intelligent speech

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markjoes
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posted 05-29-2003 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for markjoes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MORPHEUS

Morpheus is a cunning imitator of the human form, skilled in representing the features and the speech of men in dreams, as well as the clothing and the accustomed words of each he represents.

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markjoes
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posted 05-29-2003 06:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for markjoes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THE ORACLE

In ancient times, virgins delivered the oracles because virgins, having their natural innocence intact were supposed to guard the secrecy of the oracles. But in historical times, as sexual violence was offered against a prophetess, the Delphians appointed an elderly woman to prophesy.

(Remember the young black women in The Matrix where the Oracle lived)

the Oracle at Delphi received many inquiries, answering them in both prose and verse. Even though the oracles were clearly spoken by the Pythia, not always were they properly understood

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RwD
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posted 05-29-2003 07:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RwD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before commenting:
There have to be people all over the world inside the matrix, simulating them would cost power (cpu uses more power when it has more to do)


My Comments:

quote:
Originally posted by WWFWWF:
What does Agent Smith intend to do now he is deleted, kill neo?

Agent Smith was altered, I can see him so he was not deleted, or he was undeleted. But like the operator says "he doesn't register as an agent". He states what he wants, go see the movie again...

quote:
Originally posted by WWFWWF:
Why can't agents fly?

=agents cant fly because there computer programed as humans, and if they flew public would be supicious. Morpheus
says , that there strength and speed are based on rules which is why they shall never be as strong as neo can be.



You're not correct enough: Agent's can't fly because (and this is states very clearly in M1 and M2) everything in the matrix has to obey the rules set by the matrix programming. Agents do not have wings or any other thing to explain flying, thus they can't fly....

quote:
Originally posted by The Omega:
DoogsDC> Just that people in the Matrix does not accept the program, doesn’t mean they become unplugged. They’ll just be like Neo at the beginning of M1. Restless, knowing something is wrong, but unable to figure out what it is.
If we dig into the, ”how do you know there are 6 billion people on Earth” none of us do of course. *Head spins.*


Why didn't I think of this before (in fact I did, 30 minutes before I read this) The mentally disturbed people could be the 1 percent

quote:
Originally posted by WRLunatic:
1) Who was the operator for Cypher in M1? Doesn't a person need an operator to load into the Matrix and also get an exit?

Ow come on... Ever heard of a VCR?? The matrix is a futuristic movie, I'm sure they canb pre-arrange exits and set a timer that connects them after a few seconds!! Perhaps Cypher was working on this when Neo disturbed him, he did turn off the monitors...

quote:
Originally posted by The Omega:
Actually, it is 99,9% of the test subjects. And since some of the Zion residents are born in the human city, it’s impossible to tell how many humans are plugged in.
The Architect, however, tells us that 0,01% of humans do not accept the program. That doesn’t mean they’re unplugged like Neo, Trinity or the rest was. They just constitute that escalating probability of disaster.

The Architect says that almost 99% of the test subjects accepted the programming, so it would actually be even more then 1%

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