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Author Topic:   The Matrix 2 & 3
n0rmal
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posted 05-18-2003 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n0rmal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are a lot of implications concerning the interdepent and cyclical nature of the relationship between man and machine here.

If Neo is, in fact, a program, could it be that he has 'evolved' artificial intelligence sophisticated enough to experience emotion and seperate himself as a distinct entity from the system of which he is a part?

If this is the case, what happens internally within the programming of the matrix would be a microcosm for the original war between man and machine.

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neotic
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posted 05-18-2003 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neotic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tocco, that explosion that Neo flys through is the bombs on every level of that building going off since 1) the electricity is back or 2)its not in the 314 second window.

Personally I believe the reason the Matrix isn't being destroyed when Neo chooses the left door is because it was a bluff. The machines believe humans are often illogical or inferior. I'm sure that despite their attempts to force the One to go through the right door, the machines still couldn't allow every human in the Matrix to die, so therefore it is a bluff.

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se7en
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posted 05-18-2003 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for se7en     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soulman, almost everything you said is wrong. I don't mean to be offensive, but you'll know what i mean once you see it 3 or 4 times. Your questions you have are completely off base because your facts that precede them are incorrect. I don't feel like going through every point and saying what is wrong. Just go see it more. No offense at all. Read all my explanations. I cover a lot and offer my own opinion.
-se7en

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neotic
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posted 05-18-2003 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neotic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
se7en, no offence. why not just hold off your reply till you do feel like pointing them out? just seems the logical way to disprove someone, if you aren't feeling up to it now.

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Narib18
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posted 05-18-2003 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Narib18     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok ive read most of these replies and some of you seem to disagree with the 2 matrix theory. while it would be very clever for the brothers to make everyone think there are two matrix and then have them find out that there is only one is cool, it leaves me with the following question. how would neo's choice to save zion or trinity in the matrix have any affect on the "real world" if its not another matrix?

This question may be confusing so ill give you an example for us living now in the real world. ok there is a giant meteor coming towards earth and will destroy it in 24 hours. so while im waiting to die i start playing a computer game. suddenly the game asks if i would like to repopulate earth by choosing 16 women and 7 men and save the earth. now i choose yes and pick my people, great whoop-de-freakin-doo that doesnt mean that suddenly everything goes back in time and suddenly the meteor isnt going to destroy the earth. bottom line: my choice in some stupid video game isnt going to make any difference in the real world.

so, if neo had chosen to save zion then suddenly the machines wouldnt be blowing up zion and things just go back in time? no that makes no sense. unless zion is really part of the matrix, then if neo makes the choice to reload the matrix then the machines wouldnt be still attacking because the matrix was reloaded and since they were still in the matrix, then they too were put back to the start.

Make sense?

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se7en
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posted 05-18-2003 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for se7en     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Narib18. The fact remains that the People who created your computer game have "armies" in the real world. Any decision you make in the computer game, these people understand. Think of the matrix as a way of communicating. What you do in the matrix DOES have affect in the "real world" due to the mental connection. "If you die in the matrix, you die in the real world. The body cannot live without the mind." I see the intelligence of the question, but there are ties between the Matrix and the "real world." Decisions within the matrix do affect what happens in the real world. We saw that from the first matrix. Just because decisions in the matrix affect you in the real world doesn't mean that whoever is in control of the matrix, controls the real world. Or in other words, this doesn't prove that the real world is another matrix. If you want to get nitty gritty, how do you even know Neo was in the matrix when he made that decision? Just because he was wearing the same clothes? I am just playing devil's advocate here. Seriously though, you think the Brothers would just make all that you learned from Matrix 1 about what is real and what isn't, they would say, you were living in ANOTHER dream world! That would defeat a lot of purpose that was in the First Movie. That would ruin profits. It's as if Matrix 1 is made as is, but then at the way end after he flies away, he wakes up from a dream, and it was all fake. In a sense, it is kind of like that. Come on now. That would be no fun.
A big reason why people think the "real world" is another matrix is, I guess, because the Zionites are being controlled, and the machines are efficent at destroying Zion. Of course the Architect knows all this because the Machines LIVE in the real world along with the Zionites. It was already known that the Machines are more powerful, and that they are a huge threat to Zion. We cannot conclude that because Zion has been destroyed 5 times before, and they are under control by the machines, that it is another matrix. That is the point of Neo. He is going to overpower the very powerful machines. He is the ONE. He is going to lead this REVOLUTION. What? We already knew that the Zionites were weaker. EMP's are their only defence against the sentinels. That is a sign they need help. Neo is that help. It can't be another matrix.
-se7en

[This message has been edited by se7en (edited 05-18-2003).]

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DRiFTER
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posted 05-18-2003 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DRiFTER     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Early EMP that was set off was set off by agent smith in the other guys body. If you play the Enter The Matrix game you will see the cutscene that shows this but its not in the movie. This game is offial since the Wachowski brother directed it.

[This message has been edited by DRiFTER (edited 05-18-2003).]

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se7en
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posted 05-18-2003 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for se7en     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Drifter, what's your point? Everybody knows that. Was somebody confused about that?

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Average Joe
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posted 05-18-2003 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Average Joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The most interesting theory on the matrix was posted by Xcubetion who suggests that the answer to EVERY question is some form of software and mainframe code. Of course, this should be completely clear to mainstream audiences. We all know that the main operating system is utilizing an "anomoly software package" to break itself or de-bug itself from the 5-cycle iteration. The horrible 'circular' that we have all experienced utilizing excel spreadsheets in every day life. Beta software, "old" Macro software, protectorate software, the 2nd operating system (Zion), etc..

I must say, I like it......and if a majority of the people who spent the $100 million this weekend on the movie had a computer geek to consult, they would realize that the entire movie is about the mainframe operating system debugging itself! I, especially, like the self-replicating "virus," Agent Smith.

Most of you probably sense a little sarcasm in my commentary. This is true. While I like the concept, the entire trilogy is meant to entertain mainstream audiences around the world...who are not computer speak geeks. Many of Mr. Mainframe's points are probably correct. i.e. Agent Smith is, in fact, a form of virus that can now replicate itself...an ability that undoubtedly emanates from Neo fusing with Agent Smith at the end of the first movie. However, the core plot suggested by Mr. Mainframe is incorrect. Commensurate with the reasons why the "layers" of different matrices (matrixes?) is not the answer to the riddle, the "debugging" theory, while it has merit, is also a semi-copout.

The Average Joes of the world want to see Neo and his clan actually fulfill the messiah destiny, break free of the controls, crush the machine world, and rebuild the world.....AND the creators of the matrix will deliver to the Average Joe, probably with some happy Trinity/Neo love ending and a slice of velveeta cheese.

The ability of Neo to stop the sentinels with his own EMP could (and probably does) derive/originate from the Agent Smith fusion, I don't think it is just a nice consequence of the nearby hover-craft emitting its own EMP (I hope not, anyway). Or, Neo could be the first of the humans to realize (due to his connection with the matrix) that the real weapon against the machines is our innate ability to generate EMPs, just like our innate ability to generate heat. The irony is that while our ability to generate btus (by the way, what is a btu?)provided life for the machines, our own ability will also lead to their demise.

Like Muadib in Dune who led the Fremen on a rebellion (utilizing the new weapon, the weirding modules), Neo will do the same in REVOLUTIONS. Yes, I am a Sci-Fi freak and like Mr. Mainframe, who is undoubtedly a computer wiz, this "ego" of mine is drawing its own conclusions.

I enjoyed reading your ideas. Thanks, your not so average joey.

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benny44
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posted 05-18-2003 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could someone please explain the scene with the Matrix architect for me? What would have happened if Neo opened the other door? Was he the first chosen one to pick the door that he did? Since that building blew up is the Matrix now destroyed? Under what circumstances would the cycle have started over again? Was the Oracle really trying to help or was she just doing what she was programmed to do? I thought the architect said that if he chose to save Zion that the cycle would then start over again and if he chose to save Trinity that the entire world would be destroyed? Why didn't the world get destroyed then? Please help I am really confused. Thanks

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Narib18
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posted 05-18-2003 08:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Narib18     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
se7en you do make some good points but consider what you are saying. the other "the ones" made the choice to save zion and repopulate it with 23 people, as the arcitect said "we have destroyed it several times now and we are becoming very efficient at it" or something like that. so basically what you are saying is that a previous "the one" saves zion, the machines come and destroy zion or kill all the people there execpt these 23 people, take all the bodies off somewhere, and leave the 23 chosen people there to start a new?

that seems to me like an awful lot of trouble not to mention the 23 chosen people would remember what happened and tell all the future people. this doesnt even take into consideration that everytime the machines get to that point again they will drill new holes to get to zion, why not just take the ones already there from the previous attack?

to me it just seems a lot easier for the machines to have a second matrix or a higher level matrix then to go through all this other crap

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Average Joe
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posted 05-18-2003 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Average Joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Benny44. All of your answers are posted in previous messages.

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QuarkSong
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posted 05-18-2003 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for QuarkSong     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First I must say: arguing about what hollywood writers are thinking by logically piecing together hints from the two movies, or bringing together logical inferences from the real-world is very much the same as pissing in the wind- its relieving in the short term but ultimately leaves you all wet. Look at all the plot holes in every single science fiction movie/book, these are just people (often somewhat less than intelligent) writing books. They won't be totally coherent and completely thought out from every single view point (or any view point in some cases).

That said, the matrix-in-a-matrix wouldn't be plausible (but again, I won't put it past the writers to do the matrix-in-a-matrix). The 1% of the 1% is not actually correct, its much worse than that. When you use antibiotics to remove 99% of the germs in your body, the 1% remain are much more resistant, and you can't expect to wipe out 99% of the remaining 1% by another batch of antibiotics, thus the problem with overprescribing antibiotics.

The 1% who didn't accept the matrix are in Zion, and these people and their offspring are much more resistant. Ergo, many more than 1% in Zion would be able to detect flaws in the matrix-in-a-matrix scenario.

There- you dragged me down into this pointless debate. The real fact is that they can do whatever they want in the story. The more hanging unanswered questions they leave, the better. By giving us something half thought up, they can let us fan fools come up with coherent explanations, we are usually much better at it. I think we like it better also, it gets us involved in interpreting the story.

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soulman
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posted 05-18-2003 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soulman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there any significance in the 23 men and woman picked to rebuild Zion ?

Why 23 ?? and not 22, or 24 ? Why is 23 the number ?

Also, for computer geeks out there, I hope you all caught Trinity when she successfully ssh'd to root. (we'll save that for moviemistakes ).

-soulman

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se7en
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posted 05-18-2003 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for se7en     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Average Joe: That is a good point. The "everybody is a program" theory could easily and very likely be an allegory of the trilogy. And to your idea about the irony of the situation. As Morpheus said in the first Matrix. "Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." (or something like that) Could that be Neo's innate power, or was it imprinted in him because of Smith? Because of "what happened" Smith can control a human, and Neo can control a machine (or stop the sentinels, because that power is basically control) Or is it innate? Who knows.

Narib18: What the Architect didn't make very clear, is that when you choose the right door like the other anomalies, Zion is saved, not the people within it. The people are killed, and they don't go to waste. If you remember the first one, Morpheus explains that the dead are fed to the humans in the pods to feed them and keep them alive. Human waste is actually their way of feeding the humans. So therefore, the machines benefit from this. They also destroy Zion because like the architect said, "If unchecked, it would be an escalating probability of disaster." BUT, it is CHECKED, by the sentinels. The other 5 anomalies chose 23 people, and the others died. What else would happen to them? Although the architect didn't make it obvious where the other thousands of people go, i believe it is obvious. Either they can put them back in pods (if they can) or they feed them as food to the humans in the pods. Frankly, it doesn't matter.
You may be right, the 23 people would remember and tell future generations, but they didn't, because as neo said, "there are two possible explanations, either nobody told me, or nobody knows" and the architect replies, "exactly." Who really knows why they don't tell, or if they even know, or if they were wiped clean of that memory. (which seems highly unprobable, because we don't know if machines can do that to freed men.) But for that one little reason, or hole in my argument, you cannot derive the theory of the 2nd matrix.
I thought it was obvious with the fact that only 23 people are chosen, and that way Zion can be saved. Only 23 people are saved. Salvation of Zion? In a sense, yes, the city itself is saved, but a city cannot be a city without people.
Yes, it may sound easier, but it seems more complex. So where are the people? In some real world, but where and what is their state? Are they also in pods serving as energy for the machines? Because the machines need (for a certain level of comfort) a source of energy as abundant as the sun. Sounds a lot like this matrix. How else would they be able to use the human as a battery?
SOO in real life, the humans in these pods are plugged into another world, where they are also in these same-looking pods, who are plugged into, again, another world, which is like the peak of Humanity's civilization, in the 21st Century. Come on! That sounds dumb. And that is what everyone is inferring by saying the "real world" is another matrix. What makes more sense is the way it was from the first Movie.
-se7en

[This message has been edited by se7en (edited 05-18-2003).]

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benny44
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posted 05-18-2003 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benny44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everyone needs to give up the second matrix theory because in theory (according to several plot facts) it doesn't work.

Fact: The architect stated that 1% of people would not accept the matrix

If this is the case then 1% would not accept the 3rd matrix, 4th matrix, 5th matrix, etc. The two matrix theory is impossible. The only possible theory that is logical is the infinity matrix theory. But that doesn't make for a very good conclusion considering there would be no revolution or resolution to the trilogy only a realization of never ending repetition.

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Mica
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posted 05-18-2003 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mica     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, these are the reasons I've seen for the Neo vs. Squiddy squence in M2.

1- He's superhuman, (it is after all a Sci-Fi film). So the philosiphy there is 'why the hell not, eh?'

2- He finally realised that he's still in the Matrix, so he can do what he wants.

3-The whole Smith copy/imprint Neo copy/imprint suggestion.

But- the question that comes after every single theory on how he did it, 'Why in the name of popsicles did he pass out?!'

'Maybe by being in the coma he's out, you know? Him and Smith are out of the 2nd matrix'-my friend.

I didn't really understand the reasoning behind that one but *shrug* anything is possible.

Do I think he's a program? Uh, no? Isn't the entire point that he's human? The concept is interesting, (that he's one of the rogue programs, made to 'become' human, goes a-wall and makes a decision for himself. IN WHICH case, if the matrixes were ever really destroyed, he'd die! Agh!)


Other random points-

The Proficy is established as not true. Si? It was made to keep the 1% in check. Therefore Neo must be part of the control, the program, the system, he's a fake, a phony, source of eeevvviiiilll.

Therefore I came up with the dumb and overly indeapth concept that Neo is the onyl one awake. Everyone else is part of the program meant to keep HIM in check. Hence, THE ONE.

Sure, it has flaws. Point'em out to me please, I'm tried. lol.

Ciao.

------------------
::I always felt trapped...metaphorically and physically. It was this pressure, like walls all around me no matter where I was. Except at night, when I could see the stars and everything just seemed, endless.::

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Average Joe
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posted 05-18-2003 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Average Joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Matrix upon Matrix theory is entirely the wrong rabbit hole. This is the Average Joe response for a chain of events they cannot fully comprehend. I'm not suggesting I have all the answers (I'm only human), but lets delete this theory from the hard drive.

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se7en
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posted 05-18-2003 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for se7en     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Benny, you make a good point. Thank you. In a sense, there will always be anomalies that will result, due to a glitch in the matrix. (Its all mathematical) Since there will be anomalies, that would require another another matrix for the preceding one, forever and ever, thus in other ways, describing what Benny was also saying. Good point.
You too Joe. And Mica, your reasoning is very flawed.

[This message has been edited by se7en (edited 05-18-2003).]

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Tocco
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posted 05-18-2003 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tocco     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems to me that several people have created the "extended" matrix theory as an easy way to explain Neo's ability at the end of the movie to stop the sentinnels. I have found this theory not only lacking in evidence, but a cop-out in general. Here is one reason: Were you all surprised when Neo stopped the machines? I was not. Remember, Neo has repeatedly performed supernatural feats since the first movie, several of which are certainly beyond the realm of his incredibly fast matrix-manipulation skills. Of course we all understand his mental superiority in the matrix allows him to kick so much ass. But does his speed explain his resurrection from death in the first movie? The resurrection of Trinity? Both Trinity and Neo were seen to be irrefutably dead in the real world (Morpheus witnessed both deaths) and both were resurrected because of the love they shared for one another. This supernatural phenomenon, occuring well outside the reaches of Neo's matrix skills, could be answered by those who support the 2nd matrix theory, of course, but what about Neo's dreams? Even if the real world is an Upper level of the matrix, the theory cannot answer Neo's ability to see the future, precisely correct in each instance. As the oracle says, Neo now sees outside of time. No, Neo is something very special, too special even to be explained by this depressing theory. I am curious what the brothers have in store, and I will be honest now because someone has to bring it up: I would rather discover in November that Neo has true supernatural powers, given by the grace of a true God, than learn that he is just an artificial program. Just the sound of that theory makes me sad and frustrated. I am confident the brothers have created something nobody has yet thought of. On a brief side note, though, if robots every decimated this Earth and enslaved the human race, I would be surprised if our loving Father didn't stick his foot in the door.

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beastie
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posted 05-18-2003 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for beastie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are you talking about you can ssh as root, unless you disable that feature. ?? Some computer geek yoiu are.

quote:

Also, for computer geeks out there, I hope you all caught Trinity when she successfully ssh'd to root. (we'll save that for moviemistakes ).



[This message has been edited by beastie (edited 05-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by beastie (edited 05-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by beastie (edited 05-18-2003).]

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saby2244
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posted 05-18-2003 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for saby2244     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am new to this idea of posting my ideas but bear with me. I have seen the Matrix Reloaded and read almost all of your opinions about the "matrix inside a matrix" idea and it doesít seem plausible. The oracle said that he already made the choice not b/c he was programmed to but b/c she thought that Neo like all the other "ones" before him would choice mankind. What I believe was a cycle... The oracle said the war would end when the "one" goes through the door. Yes the war would end, that particular war between those humans and the machines would end but she. Never said that they would win, she only said it would be over. The 1% of people who rejected the matrix would be kept in check by this cycle created by the architect. Every time the one walks through the door and picks new people to rebuild Zion, the machines rewind time and start the humans back on the same years to repeat and it starts all over again. The things that people said about Agent Smith and Neo swamping codes or something is completely true b/c Smith said that itís true. He said that Neo had done something to him to make him the way he is. Remember how the oracle said about systems going into denial or back to the roots, I think that is what smith did b/c Neo freed him so now he could become reprogrammed. I also believe that what the architect meant by destroying mankind and the matrix meaning that everyone in the matrix dies and so the matrix is evidently is destroyed b/c no one is alive in it who hasn't been free. The matrix can't function w/out plugged in people. That's what he meant by it being destroyed not that the Matrix would all of a sudden shut down but that it would useless because everybody would be dead. That is why Neo and Trinity could be on the rooftop. The only humans left are the ones on the ship in the end. The even bigger question: Why did Neo go into a coma? He disabled the sentinels but got a shock of electricity through his body because heís not an agent or machine but a human and he couldnít take the blow. This is what I got out of the movie.
~Saby2244

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aidfarh
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posted 05-18-2003 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aidfarh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the 1st movie, when Smith was interrogating Morpheous, he told the other agents to leave the room, and then he unplugged his earpiece, thus effectively disconnecting himself from the other agents. To me, this indicates that Smith has his own agenda, and he was going say something that he didn't want the other agents to hear. So I think it's safe to assume that what he told Morpheous was the truth, or at least what he believed to be the truth. Because, why would he hide himself, if he was going to lie anyway, right?

From what Smith told Morpheous, we know that he was present since the first Matrix. This follows that he knew about the Reloading cycles. He wanted the code to the Zion mainframe because he wanted to destroy Zion. Right before the other agents leave, one of them said something like, "Maybe we're asking the wrong question", meaning that they didn't share Smith's thought. To Smith, that was, in fact the right question, because he had his own plan, to use the code to destroy Zion before The One is identified. Why? I can think of possible reasons: 1) He didn't know about the potential of catastrophic crash of the Matrix; 2) He knew the theory, but didn't believe the Architect, and somehow believed that the Matrix will be able to endure; 3) He wanted the Matrix to crash, so that he can exit into the Real World, by transferring his program to a physical Machine.

I think (3) is the most probable, because he said to Morpheous that once Zion is gone, there would no longer be a need for him to be there. Of course, then there would be the problem of where the Machines would get power once the Matrix is gone. Maybe Smith had a plan for that, too, or maybe he had actually gone mad, and didn't think about the consequences.

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brijo
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posted 05-18-2003 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brijo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Average Joe, To answer your simple question from one of your earlier post today (Since you already answered most of the hard questions for me):

"by the way, what is a btu?"

It is a acronym for "British Thermal Unit"
As in 12,000 BTU's = 1 Ton of refrigeration, That is how much heat would be required to melt 1 Ton of ice in a 24 hour period
(I think).

[This message has been edited by brijo (edited 05-18-2003).]

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Drevi1
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posted 05-18-2003 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Drevi1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok let me put it to everyone simply...THERE IS ONLY ONE MORE MOVIE LEFT IN THIS TRILOGY, HENCE WHEN RELOADED ENDED IT SAID "TO BE CONCLUDED" IF ANY SMIDGE OF WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING AS THEORIES OF WHAT HAPPENED OR IS TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT MOVIE WERE TRUE IT WOULD TAKE EITHER A 4 HOUR LONG MOVIE OR 2 OR 3 MORE SEQUELS TO FINISH THE DAMN STORY.

So really, the most simple explanation for things is most likely the correct explanation. This movie was made to entertain everyone, not just the 1% of computer dorks that are going to see each of the movies 10 times and try to apply crap in a movie to their own lives in reality.

So I can pretty much gaurantee that there is NO SECOND MATRIX! If you all payed attention to the movie and not Trinity's breasts you would have realized that the first time you saw it and be pretty clear on whats going.

[This message has been edited by Drevi1 (edited 05-18-2003).]

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larkface123
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posted 05-18-2003 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for larkface123     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Drevi1:
If you all payed attention to the movie and not Trinity's breasts you would have realized that the first time you saw and be pretty clear on whats going.

I was actually looking at Persophone's, thx.

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lilburk4
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posted 05-18-2003 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lilburk4     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anybody know what song played during the first agent fight ("upgrades!")

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Oex0L
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posted 05-18-2003 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oex0L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK if u think about it the matrix is really just an allusion of Jesus. Neo is part program and part man. Just like Jesus if part man part god. The oracle tells Neo that he has already made the choice. This symbolically represent the narrow minded choice of the programed man, however he must discovery why which is only a quesion that a man would ask. It was first matrix Morpheus says
"Have u even had a dream that u were so sure was real? What if u were unable to wake from that dream? How would u know that difference between the real world and the dream world?"

Morpheus never answers this question because the answer is that there is no way.

They may very will be a duel matrix. Love is their driving force, not hope be hope is a curse when it should be a blessing.

The truth is it is up to the directors on what they want to do.

The driving question is what is the meaning of life ~ "Why am i here" says neo, the arcitect answers that no one knows the answer to that question

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Average Joe
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posted 05-18-2003 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Average Joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks brijo. It would seem that Drevi1 emits more british thermal units than the rest of us. No need to get LOUD. The plot of the Matrix is not exactly simple. It can be interpreted in many ways and while I agree that the Matrix^2 theory is ridiculous, my reasoning is not because it would require more film time. Hollywood could conceivably take the rabbit hole in ANY direction mentioned on this message board in 2 hours.

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Average Joe
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posted 05-18-2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Average Joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OEX....Morpheus does answer the question by giving him the Red Pill (Red, right?). Hence, Neo "awakens" from the dream world and he learns the difference b/w the real and dream.

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Oex0L
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posted 05-18-2003 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oex0L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vienna:
I have a few questions/comments regarding the second Matrix. I've read through pretty much all the posts here, but there are a couple things I still don't get:

2. I thought that the guy laying on the table in the end was not Smith. Remember the guy that cut his hand and was sneaking up to Neo before Neo left Zion? He gave Neo the spoon. He's also the same guy that whispered to his friend during the council meeting that they should volunteer to go "help" Morpheus' crew. I think that was the guy on the table in the end. If so (if he was not Smith), who was he? It seems like he wanted to hurt/kill Neo in Zion and perhaps he aided in the supposed destruction of Zion - didn't they say in the end that someone messed w/ the machines in Zion - that could have been that guy.


~Kristy



First of all im pretty sure the guy on the table is Smith because if u remember Smith infected his mind so i dont kno what u r talking about.

[This message has been edited by Oex0L (edited 05-19-2003).]

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Oex0L
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posted 05-19-2003 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oex0L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Average Joe:
OEX....Morpheus does answer the question by giving him the Red Pill (Red, right?). Hence, Neo "awakens" from the dream world and he learns the difference b/w the real and dream.

Morphues doesnt answer him cause there is NO way to tell the difference between the real world and the dream.
Neo did awake from it, but Morpheus never showed him how to tell the difference

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Oex0L
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posted 05-19-2003 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oex0L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
trinity has beautiful eyes

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Oex0L
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posted 05-19-2003 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oex0L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
u know i could write anything i want i ppl should watch donnie darko btw Monica is the one wit nice ass and tit ill screw that shit any day
Larkface EAT A COCK

[This message has been edited by Oex0L (edited 05-19-2003).]

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Casper314
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posted 05-19-2003 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Casper314     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Any idea on who the guy was that was with Merovingian before Morpheus and crew arrived? Neo noticed him leaving the table....

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