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Author Topic:   Lost: Season 1
Deep Cover
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posted 10-06-2004 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deep Cover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xedout:
DC, sounds like you've paid a visit to the XF Official Site messageboard. Mudslinging is the order of the day...

I was never a regular visitor, though I peeked in there from time to time.

I do remember them shutting down the site at one time, because things got so viscious (see 'turn on you like crazed weasels'). Did they ever put it back up?

People here may recall (or may not ) that I bagged TXF after the end of Season 7. I never heard anything about it that made me regret that as error. A lot of folks prefer staying in a dysfunctional relationship and screaming at the partner they used to love. I've never understood such folks. Life is short. I move on.

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trustno1
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posted 10-07-2004 02:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm putting the final touches on Filmfodder's new "Lost" blog, but I wanted to give you guys the inside scoop on my very first list of Key Points from the latest episode (the latest installment aired last night). My aim is to offer these reviews/key point lists once new episodes air. They're not as comprehensive as my old X-files recaps, but I hope you find them enjoyable nonetheless.

Here's the first one: Key Points from "Tabula Rasa"

[This message has been edited by trustno1 (edited 10-07-2004).]

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Deep Cover
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posted 10-07-2004 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deep Cover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the key points page, TN1. A fine job. I think you've got the right focus breaking it down on a character-by-character basis. Character threads are more important than a linear recounting, it seems.

I'm going to throw thoughts out in a less organized fashion.

First, the latest 'appearance' of the monster, once again, obeys the pattern. It remains unseen, but the rustling of the foilage and the menacing noise strike fear /1/ into the heart of our hapless dogcatcher. He runs, blinded by fear, pursued by the unknown, until he is shocked by the sight of a semi-nude woman. /2/ Distracted from his fear, he never quite seems to realize that the tree-top-shaking terror-beast seems to have simply vanished with his fear.

If Locke isn't their undercover island host, they're wasting an awful lot of time with extreme closeups of his face, punctuated by ominous music. He's also doing a pretty mean imitation of any number of supernatural characters from the old Twilight Zone. I'm going to be put out if this is all misdirection. Misdirection that is subtle and ambiguous is clever. Misdirection this heavy-handed is a violation of the trust that your audience extends you with suspension of disbelief.

I'm OK with the tease on Kate's (if that *is* her real name) crime. This is a prime time drama, and there will be no escaping some amount of soap opera element to the plotting. /3/ We'll get there eventually. My money is now on 'murdered her abusive foster father' [Evidence includes: "I have trust issues" statement, and federal agent's assertion that she's extremely manipulative].

It strikes me that the writers are moving Hurley up to the #2 slot in the 'who wants to be the secret island host?' contest. Several lingering shots of Hurley's scowling face in dark shadow, combined with his insertion into the euthanasia drama making him a contender for the crown.

The euthanasia sub-plot was a high point of episode quality. I like the way that they implied, without saying or showing, that Dr. Jack (hmmmm, another interesting name coincidence) finished the job that Sawyer botched.

The meeting where they agree not to tell the other survivors about the distress call is a classic staple of scifi. The well-meaning Authorities (the capitalization is always implied in the pronunciation) inevitably decide early on not to make their knowledge public, lest it cause a panic. And, as certain as day follows night, someone turns right around and violates the no-telling rule because they have a love interest they feel they must warn.

My suspension-of-disbelief skills were stretched to the breaking point, however, when Dr. J was clearly more upset at what Kate (if that *is* her real name) didn't tell him than what she did. Let's run this one by you again, Dr. J. YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF RESCUE! Did that part of the conversation fail to sink in on the first try?

/1/ The monster's chief weapon is fear...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... its two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... its *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... its *four*...no... *Amongst* its weapons.... Amongst its weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.....

/2/ Acutally, officer, he swears he didn't see a thing. Swears it. Honest. Apparently, he never saw "Witness", or he'd have known that the appropriate way to handle this situation is to stare at the Old Culture Woman intently. She may shame you with her proud refusal to shrink from your gaze, but you'll get to see the goods.

/3/ Musical montages would be another concession you make to the medium.

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trustno1
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posted 10-07-2004 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent recap, DC. My responses are below.

He runs, blinded by fear, pursued by the unknown, until he is shocked by the sight of a semi-nude woman. /2/ Distracted from his fear, he never quite seems to realize that the tree-top-shaking terror-beast seems to have simply vanished with his fear.

I sensed a romantic vibe there, too.

Sun: "This running man from the woods didn't abuse me. I love him."

Michael: "Maybe island livin' isn't so bad."

If Locke isn't their undercover island host, they're wasting an awful lot of time with extreme closeups of his face, punctuated by ominous music.

Not just ominous music -- it was ominous montage-interrupting music. If he's not the host, he has to be something equally sinister (The devil? A Yankee fan? -- Sorry Cass, had to be done!)

I'm OK with the tease on Kate's (if that *is* her real name) crime. /3/ We'll get there eventually.

Oh I know. I was just pulling for a different technique -- maybe something where the truth comes out and Jack has to actually deal with it rather than sweep it under the rug so it can be whipped out during Sweeps.

My money is now on 'murdered her abusive foster father'

It certainly looks that way. Maybe boyfriend? Husband? It's likely something domestic since there was only one agent pursuing her. If it was terrorism or something of that ilk, I imagine there'd be more than one person in that Standard Issue Black SUV. Or maybe the cast budget was tight, who knows?

My suspension-of-disbelief skills were stretched to the breaking point, however, when Dr. J was clearly more upset at what Kate (if that *is* her real name) didn't tell him than what she did. Let's run this one by you again, Dr. J. YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF RESCUE! Did that part of the conversation fail to sink in on the first try?

You cracked me up with this one. I totally forgot this moment -- but you're dead on. His squinty-eyed stare had NOTHING to do with hope being lost. NOTHING. And his response: "Anything else?" What the hell? Where are we, Middle School: The Island? Jack, you're STRANDED ON AN ISLAND. No one is coming. Monsters threaten you at every turn. AND PREVIOUS INHABITANTS ARE PRESUMABLY DEAD. But you're pissed because Kate (whom you've known for what? Two days? Three?) won't be straight with you. Classic.

/1/ The monster's chief weapon is fear...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... its two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... its *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... its *four*...no... *Amongst* its weapons.... Amongst its weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.....

No one can escape the Spanish Island Inquisition! ... wait wait wait, let me do it again ... our chief weapons are fear, surprise, a fanatical devotion to sci-fi archetypes ...

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Deep Cover
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posted 10-07-2004 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deep Cover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In another forum I inhabit, someone has started an off-topic thread on "Lost". In there, someone made a very good point: there's no reason to believe that shrapnel man was a law enforcement officer. The person who observed that asserted he was likely a bounty hunter.

Evidence cited: he was carrying a wanted poster, not an arrest warrant; he behaved rather unprofessionally; he had no partner; the conversation implied he had a personal interest in the reward money.

Sawyer said he got the gun and badge off of a dead body. Sawyer's not the most honest fellow, but shrapnel man has been watched over by someone pretty much full time. Sawyer's gun probably didn't come from him.

We really need to scrape the rust off of our conspiracy disecting tools. Test all assumptions.

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trustno1
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posted 10-07-2004 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I had that thought during last night's episode. I threw in an offhand "(bounty hunter?)" into my recap to cover that base

He certainly seemed to be more in line with a bounty hunter rather than a fed.

I can feel those conspiracy skills coming back ...

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xedout
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posted 10-07-2004 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for xedout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DC, I too was thinking bounty hunter.

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shiplore
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posted 10-07-2004 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shiplore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to agree. There was a US Marshal on the plane. But I think shrapnel-guy was a bounty hunter. We never saw HIM with the gun on the plane.. he never asked about it. and Sawyer said he took it and the badge off a corpse. Shapnel guy did have one in flashback... but i didn't see it on the plane...

Jack is hiding something too. I think he actually BOTCHED that surgery he talked about and lost his liscense or something. Maybe he was in Austrailia because he could practice medicine there? But he's got enough in his past where he doesn't want questions asked.. so he's not asking...

Anyone else notice Walt's comic book? It had a big polar bear in it.

and when Walt's dad said he'd look for the shifty dog, when it stopped raining.. it STOPPED raining..

hmmmmm

two theories i'm tossing around:

1) it's purgatory. where everyone has to choose good or bad. Kate who's oh so bad (mmmmmmmm) is choosing "good" where dr. annoying is heading the other way... Locke would be the archangel or somesuch.

It's like the Isle of Moral Uncertainty.

2) It's all Walt's imagination.. the last scene of the series will be him looking out the window down on an island from a plane.

[This message has been edited by shiplore (edited 10-07-2004).]

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trustno1
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posted 10-07-2004 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jack definitely has a past, which makes his dismissal of Kate's past slightly less egregious. Nonetheless, it's still lame. Bad people like to gossip, too.

Purgatory -- interesting idea Shiplore. So would that mean that, technically, they all died?

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shiplore
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posted 10-07-2004 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shiplore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jack said as much last episode.


"We all died, We all deserve a new start"...

hmmmmm

shippy.

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xedout
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posted 10-07-2004 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xedout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shiplore, welcome.

I checked your profile and have noticed that you're new to the messageboard.

What brings you here?

xed

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xedout
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posted 10-07-2004 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xedout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, if what you think shows up, I'm surprised no one has thought up a rescue plane.

That theory reminds me of an old original Star Trek episode - the fantasy planet, where anything the crew dreamed up, showed up. Kirk's old enemy, the WWII plane, etc.

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xedout
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posted 10-07-2004 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xedout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Deep Cover:
I was never a regular visitor, though I peeked in there from time to time.

I do remember them shutting down the site at one time, because things got so viscious (see 'turn on you like crazed weasels'). Did they ever put it back up?

People here may recall (or may not ) that I bagged TXF after the end of Season 7. I never heard anything about it that made me regret that as error. A lot of folks prefer staying in a dysfunctional relationship and screaming at the partner they used to love. I've never understood such folks. Life is short. I move on.


The OS shut down for about three weeks. People complained and it was re-opened under the Fox Home Entertainment banner (to promote the DVD releases). I hear you about the turn on you like crazed weasels part. Depending on your POV, things there can be quite interesting. It's two basic camps now -those who are hopeful for a movie and those who are Carter and Co-haters. I'm surprised no one has been sued for slander or libel (ah but that's the short-term IMDB XF2 messageboard - 'yikes' describes that place).

I still hang around the OS - there are a few smart, witty, and funny people that I like chatting to.

Some people at the OS need to move on.

[This message has been edited by xedout (edited 10-07-2004).]

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Deep Cover
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posted 10-07-2004 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deep Cover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome, Shiplore!

I have to say that I'm not a big fan of the idea that this is all an afterlife. It would take a lot of skill to pull that idea off without tipping everything over into melodrama.

At present, though, I don't see any argument to be made against the possibility. I'm tempted to say things like, "The afterlife shouldn't have the corpses of non-survivors in it", but the afterlife has no hard and fast rules that I'm aware of. That's another thing that would bother me about that direction. All internal inconsistencies can be dismissed by simply saying that there are no rules in the Great Beyond. That's the ultimate in deus ex machina abuse.

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shiplore
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posted 10-07-2004 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shiplore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the warm welcome folks.

Yeah I'm certainly not convinced of any theory myself. I love shows that let you think up theories in and of themselves!

As for imagining... I don't think the isle reflects what everyone thinks.fears just Walt...(polar bear, rain, scary monsters) Course doesnt' explain what happens when he's not around...

ship.

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trustno1
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posted 10-07-2004 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe the pilot gave Walt the hairy eyeball before taking off. See what happened to him?

The lesson: Don't mess with Walt.

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Ittot
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posted 10-08-2004 11:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ittot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What if Sawyer, the guy who botched the shooting, didn't *really* botch it up? Maybe he was/is another bounty hunter, or a young Fed, and shot the guy Kate was talking to on purpose that way?

Maybe he and Kate are in cahoots... or he has something to do with her or is in control? I know I know, I'm stretching here, but all possibilities, folks.

Why else would Kate (if that really IS her name) give HIM the gun?

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trustno1
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posted 10-08-2004 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting take, Ittot. Sawyer and Kate in cahoots. I suppose it's possible, especially since Kate was able to yank the gun away from Sawyer with relative ease and the two seemed to have an oddly familiar relationship while talking about the mercy killing. Heh. I might be reaching too, now.

One thing I forgot to bring up in my review: On two occasions it's been noted that the plane was turning around:

1. The pilot says they were turning around to head back to Fiji.

2. Sayid illustrates the plane's path with a flaming stick (very visual Sayid, nice job) and says the plane turned.

HOWEVER, Sayid also says something to the effect of "the plane turned without anyone noticing."

How does a plane turn without anyone noticing? That's one SLOW SLOW turn. And even if it was slow, there would have to be notable G force pressure. Not excruciating pressure, but notable.

So how did the plane turn without anyone knowing? Does this mean anything? Have I been paying too much attention?

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Deep Cover
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posted 10-08-2004 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deep Cover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Other than that Kate is a criminal and Sawyer behaves like one, I don’t see the connection between Sawyer and Kate. It would take a lot of backfill to explain why Sawyer made the big show out of accusing Sayid of being the prisoner, Kate holding the gun on Sawyer earlier, etc. A façade of this sort would take some substantial advance planning. Since people don’t normally plot out ahead of time the secret ruse that they’ll engage in if the plane crashes on an island, I don’t think this is a likely plot development.

We are to believe that Kate gave Sawyer the gun because he pushed her buttons in that little conversation where he asserted that whoever had the gun was going to have to use it on the dying man. Not the best writing in the show so far, but it seems pretty clear to me that is what happened, within the Lost universe as we see it. Personally, I thought that if Sawyer got his hands on the gun that way, he’d just keep it. One of my speculative points with Mrs. DC is that one thing in Sawyer’s backpack of looted items that he didn’t inventory for Dr. J is a spare clip of ammo for the gun.

Sawyer’s primary role appears to be to personify the famous quote about what lies behind the ‘thin veneer of civilization’. His “I’m in the wild” remark to Dr. J was pregnant with meaning.

Did you know that there is a science fiction writer named Robert J. Sawyer? He has written a series of novels about a link opening up between our own universe and a parallel universe where Neanderthals survived, but Homo Sapiens did not. These are not low profile books, but recent years' Hugo Award nominees/winners. I would expect scifi writers to be familiar with them. Interesting that this character should have this name.

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pegasus_x
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posted 10-08-2004 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pegasus_x     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK. I'm onboard too. I like the optimism of this thread having "Season 1" in its title.

I told my husband after ep 2 that I would watch the show until the "monster" was revealed. With the repartee that has already been generated here I now hope that it will take some time for said revelation to occur. Yes, starting to seem like old times. I hope the other X-Filers drift over here soon.

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trustno1
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posted 10-08-2004 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome and mea culpa Peg!

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Ittot
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posted 10-10-2004 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ittot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pegasus_x:
OK. I told my husband after ep 2 that I would watch the show until the "monster" was revealed.

Why only until the "monster" appears? They could have mysteries within mysteries (if the show is done *right*!).

I only hope they handle it well -- shows with mysteries that drag on without some kind of resolution, or just to tease, without any other basis, just irritate the heck out of me: like The Pretender, Nowhere Man, Crossing Jordan, that other show where the guy knew all the facts but didn't know about himself -- I hate when the mystery itself is the focus, and not the characters in those kind of situations. Am I explaining myself at all? Anyhow, so far, The Lost seems more about the characters than the "mystery", which is fine with me!

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pegasus_x
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posted 10-11-2004 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pegasus_x     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ittot:
Why only until the "monster" appears? They could have mysteries within mysteries (if the show is done *right*!).

At the end of ep 2 I wasn't convinced that the show had potential. I was poking as many holes in the plot as I could thinking that the "monster" element would deteriorate into some real beast for the lowest common denominator in the audience. I guess I am still a bit disappointed by how TXF ended up and jaded by so many shows since that have not bothered to tackle a plot that spans more than one or two episodes. I got enthused by the response here and now hope that things will progress in an interesting and possibly arresting manner.

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pegasus_x
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posted 10-11-2004 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pegasus_x     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, trust. I do have one problem with this new setup. After I post I am sent back to page 1 ! of the thread and have to click on the page 2 link and then have to page to the bottom to see my post. That seems inefficient. Can't we be sent back to page we came from?

[This message has been edited by pegasus_x (edited 10-11-2004).]

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trustno1
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posted 10-12-2004 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Peg: I'm not sure if there's a way around that. I could change the display to show more than 50 responses or I could make sure to switch over to a new thread upon hitting the 50 response threshold.

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pegasus_x
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posted 10-12-2004 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pegasus_x     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by trustno1:
Peg: I'm not sure if there's a way around that. I could change the display to show more than 50 responses or I could make sure to switch over to a new thread upon hitting the 50 response threshold.

Do what's easiest for you. It was nice when the old way put you right back where you came from.

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ma4utopia
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posted 10-14-2004 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ma4utopia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
any one notice in episode 4 when lock wakes up at the crash scene that he wiggles his toes.. but more inportantly that the camera does a closeup of the sole of his shoe.. there is no wear to the bottoms.. the writers have been giveing many clues like this since the beginning of the series....

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xedout
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posted 10-14-2004 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for xedout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The ep also revealed that Locke had been in a wheelchair. So, with him being unable to walk, it is unlikely that his shoes would be worn.

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trustno1
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posted 10-14-2004 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome ma4utopia!

Nice pick up. Hopefully this type of detail will continue throughout the series. It's clues like that that make shows like this a joy to watch.

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trustno1
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posted 10-14-2004 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trustno1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys,

I started a new "Lost" thread. To keep things manageable, I'm going to create new threads for each new episode.

You can find the "new" conversation here.

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takenneames
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posted 10-20-2004 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for takenneames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ladies and gent HI IM MR. ROUKE.WELCOME TO THE NEW 3RD VERSION OF ISLAND.....

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