The Lost Blog

Key Points from "The Package"

Season 6, Episode 10
Episode Air Date: 03/30/10

Point 1

Sun Jin

We are officially done with character development. Here's how I know: If a Sun / Jin episode has the mythological density previously reserved for Locke or Ben episodes, then it's quite clear we've arrived in a whole new "Lost" era. Screw the poignant relationships. Bring on the revelations!

And that shift isn't necessarily a bad thing. Frankly, the mythological parts of this episode glossed over some of the harder to swallow aspects of Jin and Sun's storyline -- and I'm not even referring to Sun's sudden inability to speak English (see key point No. 4 for more on that).

But let me stop there. I have a strict "no bitching" rule for season 6 -- what's the point? -- and I intend to stick to it. (That's only applicable to me, though. I certainly think criticism from others is warranted and justified.)

So enough with the intro. Let's jump in.

I find it interesting that we learned more about various rules and repercussions in this episode than we did in Richard Alpert's history lesson. That was very unexpected and quite clever.

For example, we discover that for Flocke to leave the island, all the candidates that haven't been crossed off the list need to go together. And it would seem, based on Flocke's brief conversation with Sun, that he can't force candidates to do anything; they have to go forth on their own.

In addition, we confirm that Flocke can't travel to the Hydra island in his far-more-convenient Smokey form. And -- this is just a guess -- he may need to go there in the company of a candidate. That would explain why he recruits Zombie Sayid for "Operation: Recover Jin."

Flocke also claims that Claire's name is not on the cave wall. More interesting, he also says Kate's name isn't on the wall "anymore." I have no idea what that means (does Flocke have access to industrial strength Wite-Out?). Nor do I know what the relationship is between the cave wall and Jacob's lighthouse (where we did see Kate's name). Which one contains the real list of candidates?

And in a very curious and ambiguous bit of dialogue, Charles Widmore says that if Flocke successfully leaves the island, "everyone we know and love would simply cease to be." That sounds pretty dire, almost as though Flocke's incarceration is tied to time itself.

See what I mean about density? You don't encounter that kind of stuff with Sun and Jin. Typically, we get a running motif of true love with a garnish of adultery or misunderstanding or forgiveness or the Korean Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Something like that.

And all that lovey/romanticized business is still present in this episode, mind you (the pictures of Ji Yeon got me, I'll admit). It wasn't jettisoned outright. But here's the thing: the longer Jin and Sun are separated on the island, the tougher and less poignant their story becomes. Hell, Rose and Bernard got back together faster than these two (I know, I know ... that's an outright lie; but it certainly feels that way).

Now, I realize that Sun and Jin have only been in the same time period for a matter of days -- perhaps a week. From that standpoint, it's not outrageous to think it might take a while for their paths to cross on the island's seemingly infinite mass. But the audience doesn't really care about island time. Most of us function on "episode" time, and in that sense Sun and Jin's separation is far harder to understand. Especially now with Jin in Widmore's custody and Sun stuck speaking Korean with the raggiest taggiest crew of islanders you've ever seen.

Point 2

Jin Sun Sayid

The alternate timeline scenes in this episode were odd. I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from them, other than tying up loose ends introduced in other alternate storylines.

Anyway, we learn that Jin and Sun aren't married, but they're carrying on a clandestine affair. Then we learn the affair isn't as clandestine as they thought, and Mr. Paik hired Keamy and his goons to kill Jin as retribution for groping his daughter. Mikhail Bakunin cameos, Sayid sorta-kinda helps Jin escape from that meat locker, bullets fly, Sun gets shot, and then, with a bullet lodged in her belly, Sun tells Jin she's pregnant.

Since we still don't know what the alt timelines are supposed to represent, I do think it's worth considering the repercussions of Sun being wounded and/or killed. What happens to your island self if you die in the alt verse?

Point 3

Desmond Richard Jack Sun widmore

Unlike most episodes, where' the A-line island story, the B-line flashback/forward/sideways, and a reasonably-organized C line, "The Package" had a mish mash of extra bits tossed into the mix. A gumbo of "Lost," if you will. So my apologies for what follows. This may be the messiest key point ever.

In no particular order, here's the other stuff that blipped on my radar:

  • Desmond = Widmore's package. Hrm. Let me rephrase. Desmond = the guy locked in Widmore's submarine. And it would seem he's an important part of Widmore's plan to stop Flocke. How? Why? Where's Penny? Where's little Charlie? All great questions. All unanswered.
  • Jin is briefly locked in Room 23, the subliminal-message cell once used by the Dharma denizens (and Ben's Others) to keep horny teenagers in line. But here's a question: remember how the subliminal messaging Karl endured featured the line "God loves you as He loved Jacob"? Was that line added by the Others or was it part of Dharma's material? These questions dovetail with something I've been mulling lately: were all of the island's inhabitants lured there by Jacob? Or, was it a smattering of Jacob's candidates and anyone else who happened to stumble across the place? Put another way: Was Dharma Jacob's attempt at a massive recruitment effort?
  • Remember how Claire tearfully apologized to Kate for that whole attempted stabbing thing? Yeah, don't put much stock in that. Flocke reignites Claire's bloodlust by suggesting that once Kate helps him assemble the candidates, Claire is free to do whatever she likes to her former friend/midwife.
  • Richard's big plan is to destroy Ajira 316. Now, I don't mean to be callous, but wouldn't it be just as easy to destroy the one guy who can fly that plane? Everyone knows I'm Frank Lapidus' biggest fan. Love that guy. "We're not going to Guam, are we?" still ranks as one of my all-time favorite lines. But, you know, if we're talking life-death-future-of-the-universe stuff, I could see how Lapidus' survival could at least surface as a discussion point.
  • Jack and Sun have come a long, long way. I'm sure Jin's non-dead status cracked the ice. But even so, it's really something to see Sun put so much trust in a guy she once despised.
  • Jack also says he's going to help Sun and Jin get "on that plane and as far away from this island as you can get." That's a curious line. It doesn't exclude Jack from the passenger manifest, but it doesn't include him, either. Is Jack secretly organizing a campaign to run for Jacob's vacated seat?
  • It's never a good sign when an adversary quotes you back to you (the "wise man" Flocke referenced was Widmore himself). So I'm guessing Flocke and Widmore aren't on the same team, and that opens up the really intriguing possibility of Widmore and Ben working together.

Point 4

Island

A few closing questions and observations:

  • Best Line: "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I don't think Hugo can track anything." -- Miles.
  • Second Best line: "Hey! Don't talk about bacon." -- Frank.
  • Third Best Line: "She hits her head and forgets English? We're supposed to buy that?" -- Miles.
  • Fourth Best Line: "No, because that'd be ridiculous." -- Sawyer to Flocke, after learning Flocke can't fly to the Hydra island as Smokey.
  • Sun's inability to speak English sure feels like a groan-worthy soap opera twist, but what if -- and this is a big if -- it actually represents a "leak" from the alternate timeline? Could this be evidence of Alt Sun and Island Sun meshing? Alt Sun doesn't know English, after all. Is that a reach? Sure. But we already saw Juliet mumble something about "going dutch" just before she died, so I think there's a hint of precedent for this leak theory. And, from a storytelling perspective, I could see the "Lost" crew using what initially appears to be a cliched plot device (Amnesia? Really?) in a unique and twisty way.
  • Zoe is a geophysicist who's got a soft spot for electromagnetic pockets and chunky glasses. I'm starting to wonder if she's got a connection to Radzinksy.
  • I challenge you to convince me that Sayid is not a zombie. Good luck.

That's all I've got!

Next Episode:

"Happily Ever After" -- Mr. Hume, I presume? Airs Tuesday, April 6, 2010 at 9 p.m. on ABC.

All photos and episode descriptions © ABC Inc.

Hee Haw!

#1. Posted by: Ripper at March 30, 2010 11:55 PM

Thanks for the recap, Mac.

Who would have guessed that a Constant could be 'packaged'!

#2. Posted by: JT at March 30, 2010 11:55 PM

MIF

#3. Posted by: TRM at March 30, 2010 11:55 PM

MIF!

#4. Posted by: meg at March 30, 2010 11:56 PM

The Robot Revolution is here!
Prepare to be conquered!!
None shall be spared!!!

Such is the price you pay when Shikotee is not FIRST!!!!

#5. Posted by: shikotee at March 30, 2010 11:57 PM

Mac, regarding Island Sun & Alt Sun *meshing* that was the first thing that crossed my mind.

Pretty sure that Jack mentioned he'd taken a few flying lessons but they werent for him, so as much as I like Frank he might not be the only one able to pilot the plane

#6. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 31, 2010 12:06 AM

ILBLxx is 6th!!! (I think).

The first thing I thought when Jin first spoke on the beach was, why is his accent Korean again? He seemed to be having a hard time. But then it got better.

Very interesting how they showed significant things we know about characters in the "original world" happen in the "sideways".

Now off to reading Mac's review. I am sure it's great!

#7. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 31, 2010 12:07 AM

DESMOND!!!!!!!! FINALLLYYYYY!!!!!! I knew it!

#8. Posted by: l0stb0y at March 31, 2010 12:07 AM

ahhhhhhh, not first

#9. Posted by: nidia at March 31, 2010 12:09 AM

re: Sun losing English

So - Flocke had to just leave her be when she knocked herself out cold. Is it possible he had anything to do with her losing her English speech abilities?

Nice to see patchy, without a patch at first, and then with a blood patch later.

And Mr. Paik - What a d*ck!

#10. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 12:10 AM

GRAA Mac. And a very interesting episode. Some disjointed observations as usual:


-Best line: Sawyer voicing fan concerns that "That would be ridiculous." (paraphrased)

-Widmore to Jin: "If that thing posing as John Locke would leave the Island everything would simply cease to be." (paraphrased) Note that he didn't say, he would destroy everything or anything like that, it would simply cease to be. Strong clue for those who argued that our primary story takes place in an alternative world? Or at least that the primary timeline or whatever it is will get replaced by the ALT world if Flocke happens to leave the Island?

-More hints towards the parallelism of ALT world this week: ALT!Sun getting shot and Island!Sun getting a stubborn tomato. Kate's brain taking a vacation (or how did Sawyer put it?)

-Poor Mikhail's eye. Did we ever find out what happened to it in the Island world?

-Yay! Desmond's back.

-Was anyone else expecting to see The Little Prince's Time Foom Outrigger Shooting Incident (tm) this episode, with Flocke and Sayid going on their trip?

-So Smokey was The Other's boogeyman. Myth, ghost stories, and noises in the jungle.

-Anyone with a medical background here? Was Sun's condition really plausible?

-TPTB sure made it seem like there is something to Mac's "leak" theory. More staring in mirrors and all.

-ALT Sun got a mirror scene before she opened the door for Keamy. Did Jin get one?

-Jack's back to promising to fix things again, is he? This guy is all over the place this season.

#11. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 12:11 AM

Sayid is fixing to become the new MIB. The question is: Who will be the new Jacob?
I think Sun's inability to speak English could be the result of something Flocke did to her while she was unconcious. We never did get to see what happened after she knocked herself out, now did we?

#12. Posted by: Trinity at March 31, 2010 12:14 AM

P.S. I don't think killing Lapidus is the answer here because they'd just find someone else to fly the plane, or find another way of leaving.

#13. Posted by: Trinity at March 31, 2010 12:17 AM

This has been discussed before but I guess without resolution. How did Flocke get on Hydra island after the plane crash if he can't cross the water? How was he able to stand in the water barefoot? He must be lying about that.

#14. Posted by: pebspostal at March 31, 2010 12:20 AM

Did Martin Keamy seem to have a Russian accent when he was *revived*?? I need to listen to him again. He creeps me out and I was hoping *dead is dead* applied in his case, sadly not the case.

#15. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 31, 2010 12:20 AM

Was it me or were some of the alt-Sun/Jin scenes using the regular whoosh and not the jagged whoosh?

#16. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 31, 2010 12:22 AM

@15/lostncyberspace: I think Keamy's accent is the rare Walkenese accent.

#17. Posted by: PiecesofArzt at March 31, 2010 12:24 AM

I thought it was a nice parallel to have Sun hit on the head and then Jin was hit on the head in the same spot in the Sideways world.

I couldn't really focus on this episode for some reason, so thanks for the recap (as always) Mac. =)

#18. Posted by: Silhouette at March 31, 2010 12:36 AM

I was surprised to hear that Mr Palik sent $$$ in the envelope with Jin: doesnt surprise me that he'd pay to have his daughter's lover killed, but wouldnt you think a successful, international businessman would know that you can't get into the US with a boatload of cash in your pocket?

#19. Posted by: linda at March 31, 2010 1:25 AM

Anyone else have a problem with the constant V countdown clock all through show taking up a good chunk of screen real estate? I was struggling to read some of the subtitles as it was placed over the top of it. Insanely annoying! I know the Lost producers have nothing to do with this, its all ABCs marketing dept. But that kind of crap just ticks me off. Let us have our show while we still have it and enjoy the few remaining hours, not fill our screen with your stupid advertising. I wasn't in to V anyway, so I had no intention of watching it. but even if I did, I'd boycott the show, just for pulling that prank.

I don't know if the rest of you had to deal with it, but here on the west coast, it was very annoying!

#20. Posted by: Steve at March 31, 2010 1:38 AM

GRAA Mac,
I loved the episode. And I'm soo glad that Desmond is finally back!:D I can't wait for next week!

P.S. Yes, Steve I was also annoyed with the V countdown. Although the episode of V was a good one.

#21. Posted by: Haley at March 31, 2010 1:48 AM

Dear Mr. Mac:

"Speaking of Jack, he tells Sun that he'll get she and Jin "on that plane and as far away from this island as you can get."

1000 times please:

"Jin and her"

#22. Posted by: Gramma Pole Lice at March 31, 2010 2:06 AM

@11 Plain Simple observed:

>-Poor Mikhail's eye. Did we ever find out what happened to it in the Island world?

You may be on to something here. What if all the alt-verse stuff happens BEFORE the 815 we first encountered, and this is how Patchy lost his eye? Can we refute this possibility?

#23. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 31, 2010 2:11 AM

@20 Steve (oe was it Scott?) said:

>Anyone else have a problem with the constant V countdown clock all through show taking up a good chunk of screen real estate?

KILLDIEMURDERDEATHBADTHINGS
DESTRUCTIONLOOTPILLAGEHANDSTOMP
BEATEVISCERATESTRANGLEDISEMBOWEL
ANDPOOHPOOHSON ABC MARKETING.

#24. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 2:17 AM

@mac

Apologies, I didn't know it would do that, (above) please feel free to break it up.

#25. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 2:22 AM

GRAA Mac,

Flocke told Charles Widmore that "A wise man once said 'War is coming to this island'. I think it just got here."

Can someone remind me who the wise man was?

#26. Posted by: flambe moi at March 31, 2010 2:25 AM

Why didn't they give us the enhanced version of Richard's show? I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. That bites.

#27. Posted by: sweetpea at March 31, 2010 2:34 AM

The only other person I can recall saying 'a war was coming' was Jacob...

#28. Posted by: Jack at March 31, 2010 2:42 AM

@27 sweetpea:

They're posting the enhanced versions on ABC.com now. "Ab Aeterno" isn't up yet, but "Recon" is. We'll just have to wait and see if they post it.

#29. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 31, 2010 2:42 AM

@me 26, @Jack 28,
I was thinking more prior to Jacob's appearance - back to season one or two - I have a vague recollection someone (Locke?, Jack?, Mr Friendly?) said "war is coming"...

If you had gone to all the trouble to tranquilise Flocke's group, surely you'd take their guns away?

#30. Posted by: flambe moi at March 31, 2010 2:52 AM

They said "aphasia," not "amnesia." I'm checking with my sister the speech pathologist if this is possible.

#31. Posted by: hurling at March 31, 2010 2:57 AM

Best line:

Ben: "Why won't you believe me?"

Ilana: "Because you're speaking"

#32. Posted by: flambe moi at March 31, 2010 3:04 AM

@11 and @ 31
Aphasia is a neurological disorder caused by damage to the portions of the brain that are responsible for language. Primary signs of the disorder include difficulty in expressing oneself when speaking, trouble understanding speech, and difficulty with reading and writing. Aphasia is not a disease, but a symptom of brain damage. Most commonly seen in adults who have suffered a stroke, aphasia can also result from a brain tumor, infection, head injury, or dementia that damages the brain.

#33. Posted by: Christina at March 31, 2010 3:05 AM

Charles Widmore said "a war is coming to John Locke" (the live one, not Franken-Locke) "and if he (J Locke the living, again) doesn't return to the island then the wrong side is going to win"

#34. Posted by: tim at March 31, 2010 4:08 AM

I think Widmore's line about everything and everyone "simply ceasing to be" is the big takeaway from this episode.

It does sound like a timeline thing. In fact, it's a pretty good description of what would have happened (did happen? is happening?) if the bomb at the end of last season worked as planned.

Maybe the whole purpose of the island is not to trap an "evil" (MiB / Flocke) but to stabilize time somehow. The MiB is just trapped there as a side effect.

Maybe our "real" timeline (the one where 815 crashed, and the one Widmore is trying to save) was created by Jacob's time-traveling meddling, and if MiB escapes all of that will be undone, leaving the alt timeline instead.

Maybe the island is some kind of gateway/wormhole between universes and Jacob's job was to prevent people from traveling between them.

I'm so confused...

#35. Posted by: Michael Moncur at March 31, 2010 4:16 AM

SPOILER SPOILER


Not sure if the Series Finale title has been mentioned yet:

http://bit.ly/bRV2T7

#36. Posted by: Jin + Tonic at March 31, 2010 4:29 AM

It was funny seeing Ben acting so concerned about Sun after he found her unconscious.

I think MIB needs all the candidates because he would need Jacob's replacement to go with him. Only way to ensure that since he doesn't know who's chosen, is to take them all.

Notice how when Jack is talking to Sun he tries to take her hand as UnLocke always seems to do when trying to get someone to join his side.

If Dharma was a recruitment project for Jacob then why was there such tension between the Others, Jacob's followers, and Dharma?

I think UnLocke can stand in the water as his feet can touch the ground on the bottom. He can't turn to smokee and fly over to the other island nor swim away from the island as he would no longer be in contact with the ground.

#37. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 31, 2010 6:52 AM

@36 Jin + Toni gave us a link to an article about the last ep and its title:

They got one thing wrong - it's SUNDAY, May 23, not TUESDAY.

#38. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 7:24 AM

Best...scene...yet...

Sun doing the blouse-button tease!

Giggity, giggity.

#39. Posted by: giggity at March 31, 2010 7:25 AM

I think the magnetic bubbles on the island define where MIB can take on the smokey form. Where the magnetic field strength is low, such as over the water, Flocke can not transform himself into smokey. This is why the geophysisist 'Zoe' is so determined to find out more on these bubbles from Jin.

Just a theory.

#40. Posted by: Glen at March 31, 2010 7:34 AM

I really thought the "package" was going to be Walt...

#41. Posted by: JPaul at March 31, 2010 7:38 AM

I agree with Mac's "mish mash gumbo" comment. I actually found my mind wandering during this episode. Good grief, even the commercial breaks didn't irritate me. However, I don't think I even noticed the "V" countdown going on. Obviously my pea-sized brain can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

On the other hand, Sun's buttons were mesmerizing.

Now that I'm thinking about it . . I still remember Juliet's stiletto heels crawling out of that sub . . . and a mudhole fight . . . and a . .

I'm going to go take a cold shower while we wait for the west coast to chime in here.

#42. Posted by: davidrh at March 31, 2010 7:38 AM

So my theory that MIB had recruited Widmore to his side years before is now officially toast.

Apparently that means that all of the manipulation that Widmore and Hawking have engaged in over the years was designed to keep MIB on the island,not assist him off, even to the point of knowingly sacrificing their own son.

There was a debate at the end of the last blog, in part based on whether season 6 will be seen as a disapointment for those of us who have puzzled over the mysteries and mythology of Lost, and who now are in full-on "answer' mode.

Robert Bianco, the TV critic for USA Today, came out firmly on the character over mythology side yesterday:

"Still, while those magical-mystery answers are of interest, it's a mistake to let them consume your viewing energy. As the show reminds us time and time again, it's not the island that's 'lost', but rather the characters...Jacob and the Man in Black are beyond our grasp; it's the people they're using who are the soul of the show, and they're the ones who deserve our focus."

While I respect that viewpoint, how do we understand season 6 in that context?

Entire episodes have left key cast members with either nothing to do or with only a handful of throw-away lines.

Even worse, can you be emotionally engaged in the Sideways world when we have absolutely no framework with which to deal with it?

The shooting of Sun and possible loss of Ji Yeon generated no reaction from me during viewing- is the Sideways world real or not? Future or past? What is or what will never be?

IMO, compare the emotional pull of "Ji Yoen", contrasting the Jin panda flashbacks against Sun giving birth, all in a context of uncertainty over whether Jin was still alive.

That was a powerful commentary on Jin and Sun's relationship. Last night, for me, not so much.

#43. Posted by: Mizzed at March 31, 2010 7:45 AM

As always...thanks Mac!!

#16. Posted by: PiecesofArzt
Was it me or were some of the alt-Sun/Jin scenes using the regular whoosh and not the jagged whoosh?

Yes...the whoosh was a flashback whoosh. I noticed that right away and then was confused...is this a flashback...flash sideways...?

Was pretty sure Desmond was the "package" since Widmore talked about Penny and knowing how it felt to be "kept away" from his daughter. He has always blamed that on Desmond. As for Penny...saw her on a commercial for Flashforward last night. Wonder if she will make a cameo on a remaining Lost episode...

#44. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 7:48 AM

Mac, Sayid is not a zombie because zombies can't swim! That according to two extremely reputable zombie web sites. The 2nd site goes on to argue that zombies are able to make whoopie because they have all the required anatomical equipment! Good to know.

#45. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 31, 2010 8:07 AM

#11. Posted by: Plain Simple
-ALT Sun got a mirror scene...Did Jin get one?

Yes, when he was locked in the pantry, near the end of the scene with Sayid, you could see his reflection to his left. I believe it was off of a fridge.

#20. Posted by: Steve (and others)

Yes, V logo was v. annoying!

Mizzed, 43
Amen, brotha. Having a hard time feeling engaged in the alt timeline.

That being said, I really hope there's some leakage between the alt timeline and the island world. There has to be. Aphasa?! Come on! I'm still hoping TPTB have something up their sleeves.

#46. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 31, 2010 8:19 AM

Faraday did tell Desmond he was extremely "special" in relation to time. He was able to go back, have a constant, see flashes of the future (BTW did that stop or does he still see them?), understands course correction and was able to take Faraday's 30 year old message to his mom. He has clearly been our tie to time as a "special" person so it will be interesting to see how he fits in against the "cease to be" warning.

#47. Posted by: Addicted to LOST at March 31, 2010 8:20 AM

@20 Steve

The V countdown clock annoyed the crap out of me too! I couldn't see anything that Sun was writing after Jack gave her the paper and pen. Was anything she wrote significant? If so- someone please fill me in. Thanks.

#48. Posted by: irishfan4 at March 31, 2010 8:26 AM

Great Recap. Thanks MAC.

Here's my big-picture guess of what's gonna happen. A few intro comments, apologies for the length--it attempts to be somewhat comprehensinve. Also, I don't think this qualifies as a spoiler as I have no inside info, just the theory.

The alt-verse is going to be how the show ends. Here's why:

First and foremost, it would be too unsatisfying to us, the dedicated viewers, if our beloved castaways end this rollercoaster ride with the struggles and angst that both island life and their prior "real" lives consisted of. (Go at it Gramma Pole Lice).

Moreover, they all appear to be shaping up to be far better off in this season's alt-verse. That is definitely true for:

Ben, the history teacher with a big heart (and Yale-bound Alex and Rousseau, the financially struggling single mom)

Sayid (who is neither torturer nor possessed zombie and who may yet become united with Nadia if his brother's medical situation turns south)

Sawyer (still charming, but on the side of the law)

Miles (ditto and with girlfriend)

Locke (who has accepted his fate, has a positive relationship with his dad and is about to marry Helen)

Hurley ("the luckiest guy in the world")

Boone and Shannon (who, if nothing else, are alive)

Those whose situations are still yet unclear in alt-2004 include:

Kate (who may really be innocent as she profferred to Claire--perhaps connecting with Cop-Sawyer will unveil that storyline)

Claire (though definitely better off than Crazy Island Claire, we don't know what will become of her and the baby)

Jack (who may or may not be happier in the alt-verse. What we do know at least is that he and his son seem to be building toward a more solid relationship)

Sun and Jin (in love in the 2004 alt-verse but facing some pressing and serious health, economic and language challenges)

Charlie (though better than dead, not in a happy place)


If the alt-verse is the ending, the obvious question is how will they get there? The coming showdown will enable the Time-Clock of Life (I'm open to a better title for that) to reset for our characters to be his season's 2004 "alt-verse." Of course, we don't know how that will happen (and we likely will not ever learn the specifics of how it "works") but we have had hints to the possibility.

Dogen said that his "deal" with Jacob involved giving his son a new lease on life that he (Dogen) would not be part of. We saw though that not only did the son get to live (with a healthy dose of musical talent) but also that an alternative Dogen (of whom Island Dogen was unaware) in fact DID get to be part of the son's life. Also, Widmore's comment in this week's epi that everyone "would cease to be" hints at the scenario that an entire reality can just vanish.

The way off the island will not be via plane or even sub (too conventional) but rather via the electromagnetic pocket that Zoe is trying to locate.

A few more random speculations of what's to come:

Jin will take Sun to the hospital where Jack will be on hand to save the day.

Juliet will come across Sawyer somehow and they will have their long awaited coffee date, dutch treat.

And, finally, somehow, innocent and newly-freed Kate will have to stumble across Doctor Jack in a way that doesn't feel too contrived but lets them, too, live happily ever after.

#49. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at March 31, 2010 8:28 AM

okay - so forgive me if someone else thought of this and did it in one of the THOUSANDS of posts this season, but i thought to take a stab at a list of many of the characters and if they were better or worse off being touched by jacob:

(off island meaning to me - jacob did not touch them)

- JACK: Better of in off island life (limited daddy issues/etc)

- KATE: Better on island life (i think at least)

- HURLEY: Better off island life. Happy go lucky (and lucky) guy

- BEN: Better off island life

- SUN/JIN: Better on island. They are not shot and on a hit list.

- LOCKE: Better off island (i mean he is not dead)

- SAYIED: Toss up?

- SAWYER: Toss up? Maybe off island

- MILES: Toss up.

I am sure i missed someone(s), but anyway, I was thinking about that.

Also - if you notice, the people who clearly are better OFF THE ISLAND want to save it? Mostly anyway.

#50. Posted by: lostatwork at March 31, 2010 8:28 AM

@#45 Scooby-Dude

The 2nd site goes on to argue that zombies are able to make whoopie because they have all the required anatomical equipment! Good to know.

Ah, poor Sayid. Bummer for him that he now "can't feel anything." :-)

GRAA Mac and @32 flambe moi - yep, that was my favorite line too!

#51. Posted by: glostover at March 31, 2010 8:35 AM

and one other thing

when sayid came out of the water - did he remind you of martin sheen in apocolyaspe now?

would that mean flock is marlon brando (i mean he looks like him a bit)

C

#52. Posted by: lostatwork at March 31, 2010 8:38 AM

Re: @#50 lostatwork

Are you also eating a yogurt and apple RIGHT NOW?????

#53. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at March 31, 2010 8:38 AM

@ Lost in Ra'anana

u lost me on that one

c

#54. Posted by: lostatwork at March 31, 2010 8:40 AM

#52. Posted by: lostatwork

I was totally thinking he looked just like Rambo. Though come to think of it that's the same thing as a zombie anyway. "Yo, Brains!"

#55. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 31, 2010 8:41 AM

Lost in Ra'anana

talk about posting at almost the same time

woah.. similar but not exactly the same

#56. Posted by: lostatwork at March 31, 2010 8:44 AM

Boy Mac, when you get to brewin' up a big ol' pot o' Lost gumbo you don't mess around.

Somehow I liked a whole bunch of little things about this ep, but the ep itself left me feeling meh.

Patchy's eye - cool. Sun's buttons - way cool. Ilana's crack to Ben about how she knows he's lying because, like a lawyer, he's speaking - bitchin' cool. Mile's crack about Hurley's tracking abilities being liited to bacon-laced food goods - wicked awesome. Des = Package - priceless.

The premise with the money and smuggling it into the country and it wouldn't be found nor would Jin get in trouble if it was found - sorry...unable to suspend my disbelief.

Have we seen that banker chick before?

If Smoky can't travel over water without a boat, what happens when his little island paradise is underwater? Hmmmmmm.... Does somebody pull the plug on the cork?

#57. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 31, 2010 8:45 AM

Can aphasia be temporary?

Yes. Temporary aphasia, called transient aphasia, refers to a communication problem that lasts only a few hours or days. More than half of those who initially show symptoms of aphasia recover completely within the first few days.

#58. Posted by: IStillBelieve at March 31, 2010 8:52 AM

Two quick comments...

I think the "cease to be" line is very important. It's implying that there will be no battle of any kind, moreso like what would happen in Dogma if ben afleck and matt damon got into heaven. It also kinda reminded me of Jumanji, where everything would reset and start over.

Also, I'm betting sawyer and miles will end up on the restaurant murder case, go to the hospital to interview Sun, and meet the obgyn Juliette while she's checking on sun's baby. Then they can go Dutch.

#59. Posted by: Cheese at March 31, 2010 8:54 AM

Just a few more comments:

Jacob represents God. He (note the capital "H"-- LOL) wants to let the people/candidates choose for themselves, without his involvement, whether to make moral choices.

The corkiness of the island may be the ability of people to repent. When someone arrives on the island, their past acts don't matter, Jacob said in last week's episode. Jacob also told Richard in last week's show that without the cork, the evil stuff would spread throughout the rest of the world.

If our heroes are able to truly repent for whatever their personal shortcomings have been, then they will be freed from their prior burdens and their lives will be better.

Not really sure what that means for candidacy.

What we really need is more Widmore/Ellie backstory to learn some more about the science and the mythology or role of the island. Also to learn why Chuck isn't such a bad guy.

Speaking of Widmore, it seems that Ben and Charles are unwittingly on the same side now. Interesting to see how that plays out when they come face to face.

And, the canoe shootout from one of the fooms of last season still has to work into the story on one of the upcoming boat rides across to Hydraland.

#60. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at March 31, 2010 9:06 AM

Thanks for the recap, Mac!

My first impression of the episode was the reversal in Jin and Sun's story. In the original timeline they boarded Oceanic 815 married, but maybe no longer in love. In the new timeline they were deeply in love, but not married.

Re: Kate on the wall, in an earlier podcast (skip ahead ealgumby! ;) ), the producers revealed that Austen was crossed out on the cave wall but not on the lighthouse wheel. They speculated that this was perhaps done to throw someone off and make them think she was no longer a candidate when she really was.

Okay ealgumby, you can start reading again! I wrote a lengthy (and nonhostile) response on the Ab Aeterno thread this morning. Check it out if you have the time.

#61. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 31, 2010 9:09 AM

Re @#57 ransomjackson

"If Smoky can't travel over water without a boat, what happens when his little island paradise is underwater?"

Yes, if Smokey/Man in Black/Esau/Lucifer is unable to be in the water, then submerging the island will be the way it (and/or the rest of the world) is protected from evil forces. I like that.

Re @59 Cheese

"Also, I'm betting sawyer and miles will end up on the restaurant murder case, go to the hospital to interview Sun, and meet the obgyn Juliette while she's checking on sun's baby. Then they can go Dutch."

Great speculation!

#62. Posted by: Lost in Ra'anana at March 31, 2010 9:17 AM

About that "V" promo: Damon Lindelof feels your pain.

http://bit.ly/aXarIh

#63. Posted by: mac at March 31, 2010 9:17 AM

Sawyer's snarky again and Des is back...all in one episode! *long sigh*

This episode definitely had some great dialogue. As pointed out before, Ilana's "b/c you're talking" comment to Ben was awesome. Sawyer was also in top form.

Des and Sayid staring at each other at the end was HI * LAR * I * OUS! I must say, though, it's time to explain what is going on with Sayid already.

@ransomjackson

"Somehow I liked a whole bunch of little things about this ep, but the ep itself left me feeling meh."

My feelings, exactly!

#64. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 31, 2010 9:18 AM

And if I may be so bold as to speak for this blogosphere...

Congratulations to Yunjin Kim on her recent nuptials.

Smokin' hot, newly married, hit show, living in Hawaii...musta sold her soul to MIB.

Now if only she could get that pesky bullet outta her tummy...

Re @59 Cheese Speculation...spot on, Bruthuh. Me likey.

#65. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 31, 2010 9:29 AM

Is there any evidence that Sun can't speak English in the alt-verse? I always assumed she was just hiding it like she did in the original timeline.

#66. Posted by: GhostlyFigure at March 31, 2010 9:41 AM

@48: Sun wrote that Flocke said he had found Jin, when Jack asked why she didn't go with him, she wrote, "I don't trust him".

#67. Posted by: Freewill1978 at March 31, 2010 9:47 AM

@#66 GhostlyFigure

No evidence that Sun can't speak English in the alt-universe. In fact, when Jin was being dragged off at Customs and the woman told her she'd better speak up, looked like to me that she does speak English and didn't want to give it away.

Agree with poster about needing to find out what's up with Sayid. We are learning a little at a time...wish he would just spit it out! He told Kate that he was not "okay" and then before he could elaborate, Claire attacks Kate from the back. Then last night episode...he doesn't feel anything... AND...?!! Not as much frustrating as it is building up an excitement of wanting to learn the answers. Over all, has been satisfied with what we are discovering.

#68. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 9:53 AM

This episode was a dud. Who edits a commercial break in the middle of the Flocke-Sun chase?

Anytime the story line deals with medical-legal issues I cringe as they falter. It is one thing to suspend disbelief, it is another to defy common sense.

Do Korean crime bosses outsource their hits to America?! Plus, who would put their only daughter in the middle of a US homicide investigation as Jin and Sun were traveling together.

When do U.S. chartered banks allow non-account holders to close secret accounts without permission of the account holder (the actual bank customer)? Simple answer: they do not.

Sun bumps her head and now can't speak English, but she can understand it, and even write it? This gimmick has no purpose - - it does not advance the plot.

And that was the major issue with this episode: the plot has again stalled. In Recon, we assumed that it was a bridge to get the characters in place for the sprint to the finish. Now, returning to the main island story, our characters are stuck in the mud waiting for an overdue tow truck to pull them out of this mess. We are left with the expectation of more keystone cop missions.

#69. Posted by: welh at March 31, 2010 9:55 AM

So, what is the reasoning behind Widmore’s plan of using the ‘package’ (Desmond) to counter Flocke (i.e., MIB, smokey) in the near future? There is no strong connection earlier in the series.

#70. Posted by: JT at March 31, 2010 10:02 AM

@ 59 cheese "Also, I'm betting sawyer and miles will end up on the restaurant murder case, go to the hospital to interview Sun, and meet the obgyn Juliette while she's checking on sun's baby. Then they can go Dutch."

YES YES YES

Also: Did anyone else crack up laughing when Keamy opened up the bathroom door and there was Jin, standing like a body builder. I don't know why that was funny to me. Totally gratuitous shot of Jin sans-shirt. :)

#71. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 10:07 AM

@66. GhostlyFigure: [can AltSun speak English?]

Only "evidence" after last night would be that she learned English in the original timeline to escape Jin, and "now" she doesn't need to. Though, if she suggested skipping out while in L.A., then maybe she learned to escape her dad. But maybe... Mr Paik knew she was learning English, and planted a teacher who only taught her gibberish. That would be hilarious.

Except I have to think, that if she were in trouble with the law and then hitmen, that at some point she would plead with someone in English. Especially if she would have wanted to save Jin (because she Altloves him) at the airport.

So I guess that's not really evidence, and I'm not sure why I posted.

#72. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 10:09 AM

OH! When Keamy was duct-taping Jin in the walk-in fridge, did anyone else think he said something about "I can't let you find out what's happening on the island..." Or something like that?? I didn't catch it. Or maybe I'm nuts.

#73. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 10:19 AM

@LockeBox #72

I think you have a valid point as I was thinking the same thing. Why shouldn't she hop in when Jin was about to be dragged off by customs, especially if she is not afraid of/trying to escape Jin in this timeline?

I also was half hoping when she wrote on the pad that she would show Jack Korean characters....

#74. Posted by: glostover at March 31, 2010 10:21 AM

@ Cristin

Keamy was referring to "what is about to happen to you [Jin]" which is being popped for $25,000 from Mr. Paik. Jin was delivering his own hit money. Yikes.

#75. Posted by: glostover at March 31, 2010 10:24 AM

sideways flash is if plane never crashed right? I may be losing my mind, but weren't Jin and Sun married before they even went to australia?

loved the line where sawyer says to flocke something to affect of flying his #$# off this island? glad snarky sawyer is back!

i thought this episode was ok, but didn't get real exciting until last ten minutes. don't want this season to end so soon! wah! :(

hmmmm desmond! wonder what his importance is this time around!

love this show!

#76. Posted by: Aub at March 31, 2010 10:26 AM

@#14 pebspostal wrote: "This has been discussed before but I guess without resolution. How did Flocke get on Hydra island after the plane crash if he can't cross the water? How was he able to stand in the water barefoot? He must be lying about that."

I had an idea about that. Locke was leaving the island via the FDW, and Christian was there. Christian was a manifestation of MIB, who suddenly vanished after John got himself to his feet. MIB connects with lock as a passenger/parasite just before John turned the wheel. MIB can only truly take the form of someone if they are dead. Once John dies, MIB can fully take the form, this is why he knows what Johns final thoughts were as Ben was strangling him. In Locke's form he can stand in the water. I need to go back and see if the Smoke appeared while john was off-island. Remember MIB does not just want to leave the island, he wants to "Go Home"; not unlike ET.

#77. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at March 31, 2010 10:29 AM

@ 76. Aub: "sideways flash is if plane never crashed right?"

No, despite what the pop-up episodes say, we know that's wrong. Differences started much earlier, whether it's Roger and Ben leaving Dharma, or Jack having an appendectomy at age 7-8. (Clue hunt: how old *is* Jack? What year was he 7 or 8?)

We just don't know exactly what how or when sideways world came to be.

#78. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 10:29 AM

"what how or when sideways world came to be"

Let me take this opportunity to point out that the "preview" button always gives me an error, but post works fine. Mac/anyone else aware of this problem?

#79. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 10:32 AM

Did anyone else think that the whole use the plane to leave the island was bogus ruse. MIB does not need the plane. If he did, Widmore would have destroyed it already. Gullible losties actually buy the notion that a column of smoke needs a plane to "go home". Any other thoughts?

#80. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at March 31, 2010 10:35 AM

#75. Posted by: glostover

Ok, thanks! I knew Keamy planned to kill Jin. I just mis-heard something about the island. I've got island on the brain!

#81. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 10:50 AM

Mac: Great review, great forum, I will dearly miss all of you guys when LOST is over.

Aphasia can be brought on suddenly by a closed head injury (or a stroke). And there are incidences of bilingual people losing their ability to speak one or the other of their languages.

#49>> Perhaps Sun goes to hospital, Juliet (prenatal specialist) takes care of her and Sawyer meets Juliet while investigating the shooting.

What was up with what appeared to be night vision shots of Sawyer & Kate chatting at the beginning of the episode? Was that the bad guys watching them?

So we have Widmore who opposes MIB. And Ben who opposes MIB. And Ben and Widmore who oppose each other. And Ilana who opposes MIB and Widmore. Is it that Widmore opposes MIB AND Jacob? Is that the difference? Will the coming war be like the uneasy alliance of the USSR & the Allies against Nazi Germany?

It seems that MIB/Smokey + water = annihilated Smokey.

So I wonder if Widmore differs from Ilana and Ben in that he wants to sink the island and be rid of MIB once and for all, whereas Ilana and Ben want to save the island and contain MIB thereon?

Desmond is back! I wonder if he is needed to sink the island? And I wonder if finding the electro-magnetic hot spots has something to do with exploding the island. And I wonder if that volcano will play into the finale.

Will it be that the sinking of the island is what will "set" the alt timeline?

Someone (sorry, I forgot who) suggested that MIB must take all the candidates off island because he doesn't know which of them is The Chosen One. That makes sense.

If Widmore is correct and MIB leaving the island will cause everyone/thing to "cease to exist", then is it possible that Smokey prefers suicide to continued imprisonment on the island?

That's all I can think of for the moment.

#82. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 10:57 AM

Awesome review Mac. Your Point 3 random musings were right on.

Not sure what the fuss over Sun's inability to speak English now is all about. It's a plausible medically verifiable result of her head trauma. They didn't just write that into the episode for no reason - we'll soon see why they chose to have this happen to her. I have faith!

I'm starting to get bummed about there only being 6 eps left...with all of our questions not being answered. Can someone please remind me why pregnant women always died on the island (much to Juliet's chagrin)? Did we ever find that out or is it still a mystery that may or may not be answered?

#83. Posted by: JoePike at March 31, 2010 11:00 AM

Sawyer: Cause if Locke rowed over in the boat with Sayid, then Charlie Widmore blew him right out of the water.
Kate: And what if he didn't?
Sawyer: Then we're screwed six ways from Sun.

Not... "Six ways from Sunday..."

Me thinks there is some symbolism there.

#84. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 31, 2010 11:04 AM

I wish we knew what these flash sideways mean... but it is interesting that there seems to be (at least HINTS) of cross overs again this episode...
It was interesting that Mikhail is shot in the eye. Now he'll need an eye patch it seems. (is this the same eye that he is missing in the island timeline?). And will this sort of thing play a role, if we ever see the 2 timelimes come together?

Also, the Sun speaking Korean on the island is interesting, if you consider the fact that it appears she never did learn English in the alt time line. My first thoughts of this were... her consciousness seemed to cross over to the alt timeline..

#85. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 11:09 AM

@69. Posted by: welh
re: "Sun bumps her head and now can't speak English, but she can understand it, and even write it? This gimmick has no purpose - - it does not advance the plot."

It's like the show is channeling Gilligan's Island!

#86. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 11:19 AM

Mikhail eye shot: This might be an example that some things are meant to be and there is nothing we can do to prevent them. Locke was going to be in a wheelchair, Rose was going to have cancer, Mikhail was going to lose his eye, Claire will raise Aaron.James Ford will kill Anthony Cooper, though it might not be as retribution, it might be an accident.

All the photos of Locke and his father hunting...I thought then that Cooper was still responsible for Locke being in the wheelchair via hunting accident.

#87. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 11:24 AM

@69. Posted by: welh
re: "Sun bumps her head and now can't speak English, but she can understand it, and even write it? This gimmick has no purpose - - it does not advance the plot."

Mostly I agree with you, but there is the possibility that her head injury plays into the viability of her candidacy or foreshadows her demise. Didn't Claire receive a severe blow to the head prior to abandoning her byebee?

#88. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 11:30 AM

Another good Lapidus line...

Miles: She hits her head and forgets English? We're supposed to buy that?

Lapidus: Asks the man who communicates with the dead.

ROTFL... he is the best.

#89. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 31, 2010 11:32 AM

I have a theory that is probably wrong... but what if Desmond is the new Jacob? We've already seen him demonstrate his ability to time travel with his consciousness... to go back to events and effect them (due to his involvement with the hatch explosion).

Here's what I am getting at... We have seen Jacob go back and seemingly travel through time to meet up with certain people and give them a "push" to the island.. Well, it seems Desmond is a prime candidate for this. He could travel to any point in his history, effect the lives of the people he needs to, then return -- all mentally -- to the island.


On a separate note, I find it interesting with all the hand holding going on. FLocke has offered his hand before, to Kate. He does it again to Sun this episode. Jack also offers his hand to Sun... what does all this mean? (if anything...)

#90. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 11:41 AM

@86 shikotee
It's like the show is channeling Gilligan's Island!


HEYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

#91. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 11:43 AM

How about that Lapidus....He doesn't defend Hurley from a fat joke, he defends the BACON!

Flocke to Claire re: Kate: "Whatever happens happens" (nice touch).

Did Keamy survive another gunshot?

How long can Sayid hold his breath?

#92. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at March 31, 2010 11:43 AM

Uh! Claire abonded her byebee after being critically wounded (i.e., dead, by real world definition)...thus becoming one of the zombie-like creatures...afterwards only making strange appearences.

#93. Posted by: JT at March 31, 2010 11:44 AM

Whew! got to all the comments entered before 9:55 this AM Long contrib to follow which will appear after #69 which was last when I started typing.

GRAA Mac seems to be mandatory before posting, but it's true and as always, helpful in trying to focus on what I got out of the episode and what I didn't. My spouse of half a century has given up on the show but always wants a synopsis the following morning.

I am left with episodic random thoughts in response to a random show.

I am starting to think that the Alt-verse is going to serve some purpose other than filling in time. The writers have been pretty clever up to now and there is no reason to think they are going to have a brain wart.

To all those people who thought Desmond would be in the locked room, my hat goes off to them but I was left with a bit of confusion. Jin was held prisoner in Room 23 (love the numbers) but was taken to see the package in the locked room on the sub. Well, I guess Room 23 on Hydra is not too far from the sub dock. I commented last week that I thought Desmond and Penny might be heading for happily ever after but in my defense, I did remember Mrs. Hawking's comment that the island wasn't done with him. She did seem to think kindly of Desmond and Penny in the hospital, but that may have just been her relief that her weapon against MIB, viz., Desmond, was still in operating condition.

I am fascinated by the role Desmond will play. Some ideas on this topic have been expressed above and my limited imagination has nothing new to offer.

Widmore lies. When he says that we will all cease to exist if MIB gets off the island, I assumed he meant "I cease to exist."

I am not yet giving up on the idea that the alt-verse is the universe that would have existed if the bomb hadn't gone off; that Miles was right in warning that setting off the bomb is what caused the incident. The incident seems to have caused a number of changes both before and after (Sun & Jin not married, Jack with child, Sawyer & Miles with badges, etc.) The relevance to the plot may be the importance of character, of which we are getting glimpses (e.g., Ben isn't really bad, he just got contaminated by the temple jacuzzi.)

Others, Ra'anana@49 and lostatwork@50 seem to be working this idea.

Why didn't Widmore's Marauders just kill all the people in Flocke's camp? He was certainly interested in having Keamey wipe them out earlier. What is Jin's role viz a viz Desmond in keeping MIB on the island? If MIB is eradicated (I don't think killed is an appropriate verb here) is it as bad as MIB getting off the island by some other means?

@23 Cecil Stuff we are seeing in the alt-verse is after the 815 crash that didn't happen. Therefore, this is not necessarily a leak. On the other hand, when dealing with two universes, time may get quite leaky though there is no physical basis for this. But this is myth, remember.

@69 welh, Korean crime bosses with Widmore connections can probably bump off unwanted suitors anywhere. Better off in the U.S. where the connection will be more difficult to trace back, particularly his daughter. And my daughter had a problem with a complete stranger (via spectacular theft of her debit card number) emptying her bank account so I would expect a well connected gangster to have no problem at all. Besides, I thought it was a U.S. branch of a Korean bank. The aphasia does not seem to advance the plot beyond to push Suns growing frustration to the near breaking point.

@61 FenwayBen, I'm going to read your lengthy and nonhostile response to the Ab Aeterno thread now.


#94. Posted by: August Paul at March 31, 2010 11:45 AM

Forgot to mention in that long rambling, that now both MIB and Jacob seem to need people to ally themselves to them voluntarily.

#95. Posted by: August Paul at March 31, 2010 11:50 AM

@91. Posted by: Skipper

OUCH! Stop smacking me in the head with your hat already!

Nevertheless, I have it on good authority that in two weeks, Room 23 will be used to brain switch Jin and Sayid. One week later, a basketball team will arrive. Good times!

#96. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 11:52 AM

Remember when Kate & Sawyer were held prisoners on Hydra Island? The others were building the runway, Kate asked why and I believe Juliette said "we don't know." or something like that. (obviously an order from Jacob, right?) Why would the others/Jacob order to build the runway if it would *possibly* help MiB get off the island?

#97. Posted by: Ames at March 31, 2010 11:53 AM

@32 flambe moi - Absolutely the best line

@57 I was wondering the same thing

@59 Sawyer and Mile might investigate the crime scene which brings mind this thought:

Charlie is in jail (brother looking for him)
Mile & Sawyer work there
Kate could be arrested and taken there by Sawyer/Miles
Clair could somehow have to go file a report about her ride to the hospital
Sayid's criminal actions could take him there too
Suns injuries would need investigation

I dont have a *theory* yet but it seems that the *jailhouse* might be a meeting place for them all?? Thoughts?

@Hurley Beard and Mac -- I've never had success with the preview button either

#98. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 31, 2010 11:55 AM

@98 lostncyberspace
I dont have a *theory* yet but it seems that the *jailhouse* might be a meeting place for them all?? Thoughts?
******

Reminds me of the last episode of Seinfield - remember when they all ended up behind bars. I would cry if that were the last scene of Lost. I'd much prefer if Boone's mom would plan Locke's wedding and somehow everyone would magically get invited and we had a nice happy ending. Mozeltoff!

#99. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 12:00 PM

@96. shikotee: "One week later, a basketball team will arrive. Good times!"

Which begs the questions: Kate or Juliet?

(Or, for that matter, Sawyer or Desmond?)

#100. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 12:03 PM

@ Mac, you asked, "...were all of the island's inhabitants lured there by Jacob? Or, was it a smattering of Jacob's candidates and anyone else who happened to stumble across the place? Put another way: Was Dharma Jacob's attempt at a massive recruitment effort?

I think that people get to the island both ways. mostly because the U.S. army planned an H bomb test there (unless Jacob or MIB needed an H bomb to accomplish something.) It now seems that maybe Jacob brought Desmond to the island. Desmond does seem to have been manipulated all along to this end, including Libby's offering of a boat. It also seems very Jacobish to bring Peace and Harmony Dharma to the island though they didn't turn out to be such nice Hippiesh folks in the end (Radzinksy was a nasty piece of work as was "He's our You" Oldham.) Maybe that was the "sickness" that took them. The others appear to be a collection of various people from various times, mostly not Dharma people. Like where did Mrs. Hawking and young Charles Widmore come from? The most recent appearance by Widmore seems to demonstrate that people can come to the island by means other than the influence of Jacob. If so, what do we make of the conversation between Jacob and MIB in "The Incident?"

Maybe if you're on the island long enough, e.g., millenia, you turn into a Jacob like entity or a MIB like entity.

#101. Posted by: August Paul at March 31, 2010 12:12 PM

@99 Skipper - Never watched Seinfield. I do agree it would not be a great ending just seems like too much of a coincidence for me, but like I said early its just a thought thats been bothering me since Recon epi

#102. Posted by: lostncyberspace at March 31, 2010 12:16 PM

Random fact: Listening to Collective Soul's "Heavy" to get Barry Manilow out of my mental soundtrack...

GRAA, Mac! I like your description of this episode as "gumbo" (as well as #57 ransomjackson's description of "meh"). A bit of this, a bit of that...that didn't add up to much.

I spent a good bit of this episode laughing. As other posters have mentioned, it's great to have Snarky Sawyer back. Frank & Miles' repartee was cool. And Ilana's comment to Ben elicited a big guffaw.

Speaking of that comment...it's interesting that a few episodes ago Ilana welcomed Ben, yet in this episode she's totally suspicious of him. Is it just that Ilana's on edge between Jacob's death, the lack of guidance from Richard, & the weight of her mission on her mind? Or was it Ben's bringing the injured Sun in that aroused suspicions? Will Ben's repentance hold true in light of his being viewed w/distrust?

FLocke chasing Sun, in retrospect, made no sense. If she needs to come w/him willingly, then why chase her? Even if he wanted to try again to persuade her to go w/him, chasing someone when s/he's made it clear that s/he doesn't trust you isn't the way to win friends & influence people.

Random question, never to be answered: Where did Sun get tomato seeds to plant in the first place? I don't think tomatoes are native to the South Pacific.

Another random question which has been raised above: Why would Mr. Paik bother to send Jin to the U.S. just to get him whacked? Isn't it easier to do that at home where he's much more familiar w/the homegrown underworld? And was Mr. Paik going to leave Sun stranded in the U.S. w/no money? Was this a way to force her to call home, so to speak, & submit to his authority? Or is there another Paik-provided minion stalking Sun?

Another laugh-worthy moment: Mikhail getting shot in his right eye. Sorry, not very kind of me...

I guess Widmore's quite familiar w/knockout darts from his time on the island...if I remember correctly, the Others used the same thing on Jack, Sawyer, Kate, & Hurley way back in S2.

Although it's unlikely based on previous experience w/the show & the fact that Dogen said Sayid's "infected," Sayid's symptoms remind me of classic major depression.

So what are we to make of Desmond's appearance? Did Widmore bring Penny & Little Charlie too, saying it's for their safety? I wonder what drug Zoe gave Desmond...was it to knock him out, or wake him up? Either way, it's good to have the brutha back again.

#24. Cecil: LOL!

#57. ransomjackson: The banker chick looked a bit like a cross between Naomi & Cindy, at least to me.

#69. welh: Yep, we are rather bogged down again, aren't we? Where's the DHARMA towing service when it's needed?

#82: undaunted: Did you hear anything about your interview?

#83. JoePike: IMHO, finding out why pregnant women die is one of the must-answer-questions...I sure hope we get one. There's not much time left.

#103. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 31, 2010 12:18 PM

"... your wife, your daughter, my daughter. Everyone we know and love would simply cease to be. I came here to make sure that doesn't happen."

Wouldn't it be plausible if the (submarine) Widmore came from the alternate timeline?

This would explain why he chose Jin to be taken to him, and also why he showed him the photos of Sun and his daughter -- it's because Sun, his daughter and also Penny may be dead in the alternate timeline.

Nevertheless, I'm sure there's only one Desmond and the alternate timeline is just another simulation run a.k.a. fork() ;)

#104. Posted by: Margot at March 31, 2010 12:23 PM

Great Review Mac! I really needed it this week.

You said "But what if -- and this is a big if -- it actually represents a "leak" from the alternate timeline?"
and #18. Posted by: Silhouette
I thought it was a nice parallel to have Sun hit on the head and then Jin was hit on the head in the same spot in the Sideways world.

I like this idea. Has there been any other - even really tiny thing we may have missed - event that has "leaked" ? In either direction? (I have a new project to investigate!)

All of the "who's going to fly the plane theories are not necessary because the plane is not flyable! No cockpit windows. Do they have enough gas? How are they going to get it out of the trees> And do we think Lapidus still ha the keys to that thing??? Do planes have keys?

And Flocke is lying about everything. I don't think he is a reliable source of Info. He is just trying to manipulate everyone to do what he wants. So while I went "WHOA!" when he said "All will cease to exist" I think we need to think who he was talking to and what he was trying to get them to do. Who WAS he talking ti? sawyer?

#20. Posted by: Steve
Anyone else have a problem with the constant V countdown clock
YES!!!!!!!

#23. Posted by: Cecil Rose
You may be on to something here. What if all the alt-verse stuff happens BEFORE the 815 we first encountered, and this is how Patchy lost his eye? Can we refute this possibility?

Oh Cecil...Then why did they not know each other other on the 815 flight that crashed?
I know! Maybe the sideways world will have another trip from Sydney to LA.with all the characters on it and everyone saying "Hey! what are you doing here?" And "Son of a bitch, I did not know you were on this flight!" And it WILL crash, But they all die because the island is not there anymore.;)

#60. Posted by: Lost in Ra'ananag -
And, the canoe shootout from one of the fooms of last season still has to work into the story on one of the upcoming boat rides across to Hydra island.

I think wee have to get two canoes on the lost beach before we can see it from the other canoe's perspective. So far there is only one. Right?

Didn't Flocke take the canoe with Sayid to Hydra Island and speak with Widmore?? Why are people saying he can't cross the water? Did I miss something?

#105. Posted by: berkyo at March 31, 2010 12:24 PM

100 LockeBox:

Ginger.

#106. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 12:29 PM

I am embarrassed that I didn't recognize Mikhail or even think of him. I guess the eyepatch (which was missing) was my only visual clue. But it raises the interesting point that Mikhail and Keamy are associates of some sort. If this is not one of those alt-verse changes in history, then this created lots of links. Paik and Widmore are business associates of some sort. We have now learned that Keamy works for both of them. Mikhail was associated with the others when Ben was nominally in charge and after Ben had had Widmore expelled. Was Mikhail a Widmore plant? Is that why he rushed to find Naomi?

BTW, Preview doesn't work for me either which is why I use a text editor to write out my comments and then paste them into this little box. It also allows me to write out long posts (;-))

#107. Posted by: August Paul at March 31, 2010 12:31 PM

GRAA, Mac!

So Zoe's a creep. Her glasses make her look mad sketchy but that mercenary line was funny.

Sayid is a bigger creep. The way he looked at Desmond from the water!! SHEESH. The look in his eye was PRICELESS.

War? Can't wait!

#108. Posted by: ilovebenjaminlinusxx at March 31, 2010 12:32 PM

@106. Cecil: "Ginger."

Judges...? Yes, I believe that is the correct and official answer.

#109. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 12:32 PM

Alais: Not a word on the job! So it goes.

BTW, How lovely for you and ealgumby. Sweet.

PS: I sign on as undauntid because when I originally tried to sign on as undaunted, it wouldn't let me in, but I'm going try undaunted again. didn't work.

#110. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 12:34 PM

@103 Alaïs_Longthought thought:

>Random question, never to be answered: Where did Sun get tomato seeds to plant in the first place? I don't think tomatoes are native to the South Pacific.

If anyone on the plane had a salad in the last 24 hours before it took off, there could be sproutings at the latrine. The settleing ponds in the LA sewer plant are rife with tomato sprouts.

#111. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 12:35 PM

Re: can Sun speak english in ATL

She new what Keamy was saying when he first came in, and gave him the watch.

#112. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 12:37 PM

#89. Posted by: dbwebdude

I did love that line by Ladipus, because it seemed to nod at the fans who have no trouble conceiving of a giant pillar of vindictive smoke taking over people's dead bodies, or an ageless eyeliner wearing island oracle - but then gripe about how the legal process at Kate's trial was like, SO unrealistic. Haha.

Not making fun of those who do this - I do it too! It's just cool to see the producers hinting at in the character's dialogue.

#113. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 12:38 PM

Came across some great comments and theories over on the USA Today page. They do a top 10 comment re-cap. Good idea to promote good comments and theories to the top so people can be sure to read them.

http://bit.ly/dv2tXz

#114. Posted by: Mike at March 31, 2010 12:41 PM

Favorite line :
Jin telling Keamy "thank you"

Wouldn't the ultimate redemption be if Sayid can overcome his zombieness - he seems very unhappy about his loss of all emotion - and actually help one of the candidates? I bet he helps Jack or Desmond at some point in the future, probably dies for it, but regains his soul as the true reward!!!

#115. Posted by: weepict at March 31, 2010 12:41 PM

@105 berkyo asked:

Do planes have keys?

No, but they do usually need starter carts (ground equipment) to start the engines.

Fighter jets (F-4's, at least) do have a capabilty called cartridge start - (not greatly different from the "Flight of the Phoenix" scenario) using basically a big blank shotgun shell to start the engine turning, but I don't think the bigger jets can do this.)

#116. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 12:42 PM

So Keamy strapped on the infamous watch from Mr. Paik - could you tell if Keamy was wearing it when he was frying eggs and torturing people?

I'll have to go back through the comments from the "Sundown" recap to look for ANTKWWMPW? (anyone notice that Keamy was wearing Mr. Paik's watch?)

#117. Posted by: Java at March 31, 2010 12:42 PM

Alrighty, then. I just have a lot of thoughts swirling around my brain and they are not neatly categorized, so I'm just gonna list them.

** Jacob said "It only ends once" - this makes me think that what they are doing will all be undone if they make the right choices (island under water, etc)

** I was totally wondering about the tomato seeds... and the requisite bees...

** I know wonder if the Ben/Widmore rivalry was more of a personal nature (who gets to be leader) rather than Jacob/MIB loyalty. Seems they are both team Jacob. Both are power hungry. Widmore seems to know more of what is going on and realizes that not much matters until the end game.

** Loved ones cease to exist or everyone ceases to exist? How far out would 'loved ones' go? Does grandma get to exist? Very Star Trek (original episode with Joan Collins - forgot the title)

** What did Flocke mean when he told Claire that he needed three more (Jack, Hurley, Sun?) to join them.

Swirly brain over.

#118. Posted by: The Other Kate at March 31, 2010 12:52 PM

@105 berkyo:

>Oh Cecil...Then why did they not know each other other on the 815 flight that crashed?

My thinking - the 815 crash/island odyssey can't have come first, because people die that show up on the alta-815 = Boone, Locke, Charlie, etc.

But what if the alt-815 flight happened first, (trying to integrate all these things so that they're all equally real), and *something* (malevolent/beneficent, who knows) tok scan on them as they flew over the sunken island and thought hmmm, I could use some of these people,

Then, somehow cranks back time and their memories to the state of S-1, Ep-1, and plops them on the island this time to a very different fate.

Have there been any casualties in the alt-815 world that woudl preclude the original 815 from happening? My first thought was Keamy, but The Package seemed to show he wasn't dead after all.

If Claire's had her baby, that would have been a change, but she didn't.

Sun's shooting/pregnancy might be a stoppr, but we can't be sure yet. We know she was pregnant when she went to the island on orig-815.

#119. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 12:56 PM

Re: tomato seeds

Sun planted an entire garden and I don't really remember where the seeds came from? I thnk they may have been Dharma seeds, but can't quite remember. (Makes me think of the radioactive seeds planed on Gilligan's Island that gave the Castaways special powers and abilities...) Does anyone remember?

#120. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 12:56 PM

@ #73. Christin

Re: Keamy saying something about "the Island"

I thought I heard that too!! And then figured I must have misheard... Definitely need a rewatch!

#121. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 12:57 PM

Thanks, that makes me feel better. :) Sadly, I do not have DVR so if you re-watch let me know!

#122. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 1:01 PM

@119. Cecil
Sun's shooting/pregnancy might be a stoppr, but we can't be sure yet. We know she was pregnant when she went to the island on orig-815.

******
Actually, Sun got pregnant on the Island. that's how she knew it was Jin's baby and not the other guy's baby - the one she had an affair with.

#123. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 1:01 PM

Yes, that V countdown was a big pain in the eyeballs. Toward the end of Lost it really covered things that needed to be seen.

#124. Posted by: Janet at March 31, 2010 1:05 PM

@ 73. Christin
@ 121. vintage
Re: Keamy saying something about "the Island"
*******
I'm so glad i'm not the only one who heard that. I need to rewatch. Maybe it was just his Chris Watkins accent that made it sound like he said the word, "island".

#125. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 1:05 PM

Haha, probably. I love Keamy.

#126. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 1:08 PM

@106 and 109
Always been more of a MaryAnn kind of guy myself...

And Cecil your breadth of knowledge is inspiring...from LA sewer plants to how to start a jet engine...you should go on Jeopardy! :)

#127. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 31, 2010 1:08 PM

@125 vintage

They were in a restaraunt kitchen... maybe he meant the kitchen island. :)

#128. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 1:09 PM

@120. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 12:56 PM
(Makes me think of the radioactive seeds planed on Gilligan's Island that gave the Castaways special powers and abilities...) Does anyone remember?
********
Um, Yes, Shikotee and I remember ;P

#129. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 1:10 PM

In addition to the lovely V in the lower right, the local Boston channel decided to remind us that it was still raining outside instead of letting us view the preview for next week. Not enough room to type all the expletives I used in that 30 seconds.

#130. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 31, 2010 1:13 PM

Could that blow to the head have killed Sun? She was moving as fast as she could. Let's say it's hours before Ben finds her, isn't that how long Sayid was down before zombie Sayid woke up? claimed by whomever it would explain losing english...argh, but she can understand and write it. Maybe i'm way off.

#131. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 31, 2010 1:20 PM

Did anyone see the hilarious Jimmy Falon video clip of Lost called "LATE"? He and his friends get off an elevator on the wrong floor and they're "Lost"...er "Late".

Click my name to view the video :)

#132. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 1:21 PM

@100. Posted by: LockeBox

Rumour has it that Juliet makes a mighty fine coconut cream pie.


@120. Posted by: Boodle
Re: radioactive seeds

Classic!

I can't remember the specifics of the episode - I only watched in syndication as a kid during the early 80's.

Will we see an episode where someone is bowling, and is struck by lightning, thus fusing the ball to the hand?

#133. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 1:22 PM

@#125 et al.

Here's a video clip - you're not alone.

http://bit.ly/cyxxp3

I still think he was just mumbling. I don't know why he said "just in case you forgot (???) what's about to happen to ya, and I can't have you freakin' out."

Of course when the transcript is available, the riddle will be solved for good.

#134. Posted by: glostover at March 31, 2010 1:24 PM

@#133 shikotee

Radioactive seeds... They each (except for The Professor, Mr. Howell and the Skipper, I think...) ate more of their favorite veges...Mary Ann liked the carrots and they gave "bionic" vision...Mrs. Howell liked the beets and they gave her extra energy...Gilligan liked spinach and he became super humanly strong. I think that was all. (Might have to include Ginger in that other list...can't remember if she had any of the tainted veges.) Ah...such good TV memories.

#135. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 1:32 PM

To prevent this post from getting too long, I'll post it now. Responses to posts up to and including #67.

@32, flambe moi: "Ben: "Why won't you believe me?"
Ilana: "Because you're speaking""
And again with the "don't let him speak". What's up with that? Is it just that the Island turns everyone into a skilled wordsmith, letting loose his/her talents on the world to manipulate?

@40, Glen, 49, Lost in Ra'anana and undoubtedly many others: How about saying "hypothesis" instead of "just a theory"? Ahhh, damn you casual speech!

@49, Lost in Ra'anana: "First and foremost, it would be too unsatisfying to us, the dedicated viewers, if our beloved castaways end this rollercoaster ride with the struggles and angst that both island life and their prior "real" lives consisted of."

Yes, it is always much more satisfying when the characters you have been following for six years are replaced by new characters you hardly know.


@52, lostatwork: A couple of episodes ago Doc Jensen in his column over at EW made some connections with Apocalypse Now. But then, this guy goes off on at least ten tangential ramblings per episode.


@59, Cheese: Sounds good! And since Boone's wedding planning business is so damned expensive and everyone has to chip in to get Charlie through rehab, Locke&Helen, Sayid&Nadia, and Sun&Jin decide to have one big wedding party together, until ... ohoh... Sawyer spots daddy Cooper and all hell breaks loose.... yeah.. good thing I'm not on the writing staff...


-Random Sun-Jin thought floating to the top of my consciousness: Why does ALT!Jin work for Paik? In Island world it was in return for marrying Sun, wasn't it?


-Here's a thought. Yes, I know it's full of holes, for one most of us are not murdering wisps of smoke who want the show to end, but bear with me, it was a fun thought, though almost certainly a failed hypothesis from the get-go: This week again we were reminded of MIB not liking secrets. And if he leaves the Island the whole LOST-world will cease to be! Do we know someone like that? Do we know people who would like answers? Do we know people who could have made/make the LOST-world disappear by turning their back on the Island? Do we? Do we?... Take a look around you boy, it's bound to scare you boy. That's right! Pleased to meet you, I hope you guessed my name. MIB is us, the viewers. (dum dum dum!) Good, had fun now, didn't we? Back to the hole shooting.

#136. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 1:33 PM

So Flock can't just fly over to Hydra whenever he wants. I'm thinking that it must have been Widmore who killed the remaining Ajira survivors then?

#137. Posted by: Skipper at March 31, 2010 1:33 PM

I'm late to the party....Happy Birthday, Cecil. I'm not far behind you.

Re: mirror reference. I had a very eerie feeling when Sun looked in the mirror. It was as if she saw something she didn't recognize. I like the cross-over/leak suggestion.

Going back to the four-letter word that describes the Island: Path?

To TPTB: You like me! You really like me! Ok, ok. So it really wasn't about me.

#138. Posted by: lovelost at March 31, 2010 1:38 PM

@134 glostover

Thanks! I listened and he might be saying "just in case you figure out what's about to happen, I (pause) can't have you freaking out."

Like you said, we'll see when the transcrips posts.

Speak up, Keamy!! Haha.

#139. Posted by: Christin at March 31, 2010 1:40 PM

@135. Posted by: Boodle
re: Radioactive seeds...

Awesome! I loved watching that show as a kid. Realism was totally irrelevant!

Many moons ago (maybe season 3?), the similarities between Lost and Gilligan's island were brought up, and I posted a link which very much amused me. Click my name.

Keep in mind, the links to Lost were in relation to Season 1 (maybe 2) of Lost.

#140. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 1:44 PM

@#140 shikotee

Similarities between Lost and Gilligan's Island may soley be due to the fact that survivors on a deserted (not so deserted on Lost) island are bound to go through similar circumstances.

@#138 lovelost re: Sun and the mirror

Agreed!! I think Sun's reaction while looking in the mirror was the most "reactive" of all of them. It really seemed as if she saw something...had some revelation...may choke it up to better acting maybe...

#141. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 1:52 PM

Alais pondered, "Why would Mr. Paik bother to send Jin to the U.S. just to get him whacked? And was Mr. Paik going to leave Sun stranded in the U.S. w/no money?"

I think you've nailed it exactly. Old Man Paik was sending a message to his daughter and his "employees": No matter who you are and no matter where you go, I will hunt you down, I will find you, and I will kill you. Or steal your Bunco money."

Those Koreans gangsters are a whack-y bunch.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet - Keamy said as he was tying up Jin (& Tonic...sorry...just had to) something along the lines of, "Some people just aren't meant to be together."

I think that gets a dunh dunh dunnnhhhh...

#142. Posted by: ransomjackson at March 31, 2010 1:53 PM

@#141 Boodle re: "choke"

Ooops...meant "chock" not "choke"... :o)

#143. Posted by: Boodle at March 31, 2010 1:55 PM

@123.
"... Sun got pregnant on the Island. that's how she knew it was Jin's baby and not the other guy's baby - the one she had an affair with."


Actually, Sun did not know where she got pregnant or who the father was. She sought Juliette's opinion based on the tests conducted at the Dharma
medical station.

#144. Posted by: JT at March 31, 2010 1:56 PM

@ #73

We watched this quote 3 times and every time we heard 'the island'. I'm still trying to figure this one out!

Now if the alt-verse is the real one - then Sun cannot be a candidate b/c she's not a Kwon. This leaves only dudes as candidates. Boo!

#145. Posted by: Moi at March 31, 2010 1:57 PM

@59 Cheese:
Brilliant about the hospital w/Juliet.


Thinking about the alt-timeline/sideways how there have been many characters they have accounted for. We have seen/heard about: Hurley, Rose, Bernard, Charlie, Liam, Jack, Christian Shephard, Kate, the US Marshall, Claire, Ethan, Boone, Shannon, Locke, Helen, Anthony Cooper, Ben, Roger Linus, Frogurt, Arzt, Alex, Rousseau, Hurley, Randy Nations (douche), Myles, Sawyer, Cindy, Charlotte, Dr. Chang, Dogen, Patchy, Keamy, Omar, Sayid, Nadia, Sun, Jin, Mr Paik and Desmond briefly

So where is Mr. Friendly, Michael, Walt, Horace Goodspeed, Juliet, Jack's Sarah, Ben's childhood crush Annie, Eko, Yemmi, Penny, Vincent, Anna Lucia, Goodwin, Naomi, Radzinsky, Faraday, Ilana, Lennon, Lapidus, and Charles Widemore

Thoughts?

and i'm sure we've discussed before but, Ben and Locke's mothers have the same first name. Odd coincidence?

#146. Posted by: CC_Boston at March 31, 2010 2:01 PM

@140 shikotee - Lost on Gilligan's Island

That was great!

also
The V countdown was extremely irritating

Preview button has always seemed worthless-just previewed the same box, not wysiwyg. Just tried it, and get the err message.

#147. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 2:09 PM

I do think Alt-Sun knows English; when the bank teller told her that her father had retired all the money from her account and closed it, I sort of noticed a reaction in her face, as though she was understanding.

#148. Posted by: Daniel Rivera at March 31, 2010 2:12 PM

Wow, so many posts to read.

#90 -

I was thinking the same thing about Desmond being a candidate. Flocke said Kate wasn't a candidate, so who are the 6 candidates to replace Jacob? Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid (?), Sun or Jin, and ???. Maybe Desmond, Ben or Frank is a candidate?

#149. Posted by: geo at March 31, 2010 2:31 PM

@90, vintage: "We have seen Jacob go back and seemingly travel through time to meet up with certain people and give them a "push" to the island.."

When have we seen Jacob (seemingly) travel through time? I mean, apart from the regular 1 second per second forwards in time thing we all are quite good at?

#150. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 2:35 PM

@#139 Christin

Thank you so much for translating Keamy's Walkinese! "Figure out" - that makes much more sense! :-)

#151. Posted by: glostover at March 31, 2010 2:43 PM

@73 @121 @125 @134 @146

If you scroll down the page below the video clip (http://bit.ly/cyxxp3) that glostover provided, you will see the editor's transcript (interpretation) of the dialogue.

"I'm going to strap you in here...just in case you figure out what's about to happen at the island. I can't have you freaking out."

I put on headphones, turned it up and I have to somewhat agree. The only thing that makes me doubt it is, that if you read Keamy's lips, they don't quite mesh.

It would be cool if he did utter those words. It would be another reference to the island like Roger's account in "Dr. Linus".

Can't wait for the transcript to arrive. Could be a lot of debate after that happens.

#152. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 31, 2010 2:48 PM

Long Post alert

@90, vintage: "We have seen Jacob go back and seemingly travel through time to meet up with certain people and give them a "push" to the island.."

I think this is a good point, and makes us look at some of the things we've seen up to this point. I'm just going to list a few "beliefs" which i think the majority of us are in agreement with. I think they've got some serious implications.

We know that Jacob was keeping MIB on this Island, but now that Jacob is dead, the responsibility of keeping MIB on the island has fallen to the candidates. It seems like the only way for MIB to leave is to leave with either Jacob or the remaining candidates. If (it's a big if) this is the case, then how could Jacob have actually left the island all of those times we saw him in flashbacks? One would think that as soon as Jacob left to go touch each of the candidates, that MIB would have simply left with him. Or at least snuck out while he was gone.

This makes us either seriously examine Desmond's "ability" to go through time with his mind and changing the course of events, or look back to the cabin and ponder if MIB really was trapped inside while Jacob went on his trips.

#153. Posted by: Cheese at March 31, 2010 2:51 PM

!#105. Posted by: berkyo

yes! it happened in "what kate does" - when Claire shouted out "Aaron!" even though she had no prior idea of if it was even a boy...

I also thought the Claire/Kate connection in this episode was a type of "leak"

I'm sure there are more instances - must investigate!!

#154. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 2:58 PM

@141. Posted by: Boodle
re: Gilligan's Island - Lost similarities

C'mon - I don't think anyone is actually seriously suggesting that there is a real connection.
This is all about fun! With that said - I wouldn't be surprised if the writers put in the odd wink wink nudge nudge in tribute of a show they likely watched when they were young.

With that said - when we watch the season finale, which will guest star Kurt Russell playing a grown up version of "The Jungle Boy", boy will you be eating crow! ;)

@147. Posted by: mtncbn

Glad you enjoyed!

#155. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 3:08 PM

@123 Skipper corrected:

>@119. Cecil
>>Sun's shooting/pregnancy might be a stoppr, but we can't be sure yet. We know she was pregnant when she went to the island on orig-815.
******
>Actually, Sun got pregnant on the Island. that's how she knew it was Jin's baby and not the other guy's baby - the one she had an affair with.

Whoops you're right, so for the alt 815 to eb first, Sun would ahve to lose this aby, or be wrong about being pregnant. Or the reversing being would have to have power to reverse even that.

#156. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 3:13 PM

@127 Crispy Seaplanes said:

>@106 and 109
Always been more of a MaryAnn kind of guy myself...


I smile, I grin, when the gal with the touch of sin walks in, I hope, I pray, for Hester to win just one more "A", the sadder but wiser girl's the girl, for me....


>And Cecil your breadth of knowledge is inspiring...from LA sewer plants to how to start a jet engine...you should go on Jeopardy! :)

Been there. Done that. Twice. 1979 and 1988.

#157. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 3:20 PM

My Desmond theory...
Whitmore brought Desmond back to the island because he knows how to use the magnetic fields to keep MIB on the island. I believe the numbers and pressing the button was to keep Smokey/MIB contained somewhere. He was Locked (no pun intended) by the magnetic fields. When Desmond failed to press the button that brought the flight 815 down Smokey was released and this battle between Jacob and MIB started again. Now how Smokey got contained is the question and for how long. I bet they show us how in future episodes.
Thoughts on that?

#158. Posted by: LostIsFound at March 31, 2010 3:22 PM

@121 vintage concurred:

>@ #73. Christin

>Re: Keamy saying something about "the Island"

>I thought I heard that too!! And then figured I must have misheard... Definitely need a rewatch!

Ack thought she heard that, too, and posted:

"1. Did I hear this correctly? Did Keamy tell Jin that he wasn’t going to let him know “what’s going to happen on the island?” WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!? The island’s under water! "

"EDIT: Thanks to Jess, apparently Keamy said “…just in case you figured out what’s about to happen to you, I can’t have you freaking out…” nothing about an island haha oh well."

#159. Posted by: Cecil at March 31, 2010 3:27 PM

Re: Jeopardy
Been there. Done that. Twice. 1979 and 1988.
#157. Posted by: Cecil

What no appearance in the 90's? You're overdue! Get back on there!
How'd you do when you were on?

#160. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at March 31, 2010 3:27 PM

A gumbo of "Lost," if you will.

Thanks Mac!
:)

Oh...you didn't mean me...:(

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd heard Flocke say something more than needing the other three on the plane...that he needed Kate to fly the plane. Was it just the Sun/button thing making me hallucinate a little?


@98: lostncyberspace...So the show will end with them all sitting in a jail cell? I thought this was LOST...not Seinfeld (as several have already pointed out...sorry,,,I started to read posts this am and by the time lunch rolled around this was hit up a few times...). Would Hurley be responsible for getting them all out of jail, whereas in Seinfeld, Jon Pinet was responsible for putting them all in jail.


#161. Posted by: Gumbo at March 31, 2010 3:39 PM

@#150. Posted by: Plain Simple

Sorry, I should have been more clear.. I was simply theorizing that maybe Jacob knows how to find everyone, knows when to show up, etc because he is able to mentally time travel to the past, leave the island, do his business and get back to the island. It would be just one of the ways I could see him knowing exactly where/when/how to show up when he does...

i'm likely waaay off, but thought I'd throw it out there.

#162. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 3:40 PM

@Alais...I agree that Sayid seems majorly depressed. The guy was just ready to die 'cause his life just stinks and he can't even do that. I hope they resolve what happened. I liked Sayid's character.

@Cecil...I hope you've never had the pleasure of touring the LA sewer facility. That doesn't sound pleasant, that sounds like a Dirty Job. Maybe someone should call Mike Rowe ;-)

Spoilerish?

I had someone tell me that they saw/read an interview with Darlton that stated that the finale would all take place on water. I haven't been able to confirm. Has anyone heard anything similar?

#163. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 31, 2010 3:56 PM

#160. Crispy Seaplanes: Jeopardy! appearances:

I covered for Cecil in the '90s. ; ) And ealgumby was on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, & Vikki won an episode of The Price Is Right (I think that's "right" ; > ). There was a ton of discussion on the topic of who's been on what game shows during the hiatus in February/March 20008, if you want to check out those threads. : )

#164. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 31, 2010 4:03 PM

@160 Crispy Seaplanes asked:

>What no appearance in the 90's? You're overdue! Get back on there!
How'd you do when you were on?

One of the saddest parts of being oon Jeopardy is that you can never be on Jeopardy again. I slipped in twice because the first was, technically, a network show (with Art Fleming) - in its brief West Coast revival incarnation - and the second was the syndicated show (with Alex Trebek), technically two different shows.

I did modestly well (the prizes were much lower in those days.)

I did better on a cable (Family Channel) show that lasted only a few monthes called "The Challengers" with Dick Clark hosting.

So in my brief game show career i met Art Fleming, Alex Tebeck (in fact the 1000th syndicated show, complete with cake on the set of Soul Train), Mewrfv Griffin, and dDick Clark.

Also got union scale on a bunch of gane show pilots/play-through try-outs once I got into several producers' rolodex of reliable contestants.

#165. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 31, 2010 4:04 PM

Ok maybe I missed something, why was Jin asked about the electromagnetic pockets by Zoe? Why would Jin know and why would he have drawn the maps? Does it relate to his time when he was working security with Sawyer?

#166. Posted by: dan at March 31, 2010 4:14 PM

@166/dan:

I thought it was to get us on board with a scientific explanation of what the island is, but when Jin said he would only talk to Widmore about it, the subject was never discussed with him.

We have only seen two pockets of EM energy: the Swan station and the Orchid/FDW. The map appears to show a third location.

#167. Posted by: welh at March 31, 2010 4:27 PM

#75 Christin
I really thought he said some thing like you will know what happened on the island...I was like what, and played it back. But I really think he said you will know what is about to happen to you. Yes, talk about island on the brain.

#168. Posted by: Christina at March 31, 2010 4:29 PM

Has any one ever thought the story of Lost reminds you of Steven King's The Langoliers?

#169. Posted by: Jack at March 31, 2010 4:46 PM

#75 - I too, could have sworn that Keamy used the word "island" in whatever he was whispering to Jin. We re-played several times and could still here the word "Island."

#170. Posted by: tesla at March 31, 2010 4:47 PM

Hee Hee.

In the "Totally Lost" video attacked to Doc Jensen's EW Lost review of Ab Aeterno, they actually intercut the Jacob.Mib meeting with the Ralph/Sam Warner Brothers cartoon.

#171. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 31, 2010 4:54 PM

#83. Posted by: JoePike at March 31, 2010 11:00 AM

Can someone please remind me why pregnant women always died on the island (much to Juliet's chagrin)? Did we ever find that out or is it still a mystery that may or may not be answered?

My theory has always been that pushing the button every 108 minutes set time back that far each time, not allowing the fetus to grow. Kinda like Ben's cancer didnt start growing until after Desmond turned the key. However, I am not sure why that would actually kill the mother. Juliet noticed that the one woman's uterus was like that of a 90 year old while her actual age was early 30's. So maybe repeated short hop time travel messes with the inner body in weird ways?

#161. Posted by: Gumbo at March 31, 2010 3:39 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I'd heard Flocke say something more than needing the other three on the plane...that he needed Kate to fly the plane. Was it just the Sun/button thing making me hallucinate a little?

It was the buttons, lol. He said he needed Kate to "get the other 3 on the plane."

#172. Posted by: jade at March 31, 2010 4:57 PM

Don't know if this has already been discussed a lot already, but are there theories about why some people are different in the alternate reality and some are not? Why aren't Sun and Jin married? Why does Jack have a son? Why is Sawyer a cop? And then why does Charlie appear to be the same? And Clare and Kate are in the same respective situations (preggo and fugitive)? I'm confused about how the island being destroyed impacted some people's lives and not others - thoughts??

#173. Posted by: stephjane at March 31, 2010 5:01 PM

I recently rewatched Season 5 finale where Flocke has a conversation with Richard about the other Ajirans left on Hydra island. Flocke says something along the lines of "after we're done talking to Jacob we'll need to take care of the other Ajirans." and Richard says, "what do you mean by take care of" And Flocke says "You know what I mean."

Or something along those lines. So does that mean smokey killed those Ajirans. How does that reconcile with the fact that he can't fly over water and he was a bit busy to take an outrigger out there before Widmore's arrival....

#174. Posted by: Matt S at March 31, 2010 5:09 PM

@171 tesla
I also played it over and over many times and he DOES use the word island. It's almost like he says BOTH...
he says "just in case you figure out what is about to happen to ya - island". The YA and ISLAND are burred together. Go see it on line it's FF to 29:55. It's BOTH.

#175. Posted by: Christina at March 31, 2010 5:18 PM

Issue: Desmond fails to press the button vs. Jacob placing the candidates on the plane needs reconciling. I forget why Desmond doesn't press the button - - can someone remind me please. Was Jacob somehow involved? You have to assume at this point that he was if the Lostlogic is supposed to hold true. I vaguely remember him being lured away.....and then the whole thing with the space suits when he walked outside- I want to see that readdressed. We still don't have the real answer as to why that button had to be pressed.

#176. Posted by: samiam at March 31, 2010 5:38 PM

@103
I apologize if someone responded to this already, but I think the reason Mr Paik allowed Sun and Jin to go to the US was the catch them in the act, and to find her secret account. He probably knew the money would be confiscated, and sent Keamy to demand it knowing Sun would step in to provide it for her Jin. So really he caught her having an affair with Jin and found her account (when she took Mikhail to the bank) at the same time.

#177. Posted by: HurleysTheONE at March 31, 2010 5:42 PM

DKSI = Did Keamy say island? (IMO, he didn't by the way. My husband heard island, though. LOL, crazy!)

Also on the "Totally Lost" video attached to Doc Jensen's review of Ab Aeterno, he too said that he thought maybe Jacob is the body and the MIB is the soul of one person. Yay me! At least for a moment, until I'm proven totally wrong, as usual!

#178. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 31, 2010 5:46 PM

We have a classic case of AHKSSATI!

(Anyone Hear Keamy Say Something About The Island) lol!

I can't hear anything but "island", I need to see those transcripts!

#179. Posted by: vintage at March 31, 2010 5:49 PM

Here's what Lostpedia transcripts reports:

Keamy says, "I'm going to strap you in here, just in case you figure out what's about to happen to you... can't have you freaking out."

#180. Posted by: Cecil Rose at March 31, 2010 5:56 PM

@115, weepict: "he seems very unhappy about his loss of all emotion"

Lol! Does that mean he is now also very together with Nadia because she died? And he's a torturer who doesn't harm anyone? Well, Jacob sure seems aroused by his own impotence. And Jack is so broken, he doesn't need fixin'. And I guess MIB is crushed under the weight of his bodylessness. You're right, the show does make a lot more sense when looked upon in this way. This calls for a haiku from one of our resident poets. And why did we identify the foot of the statue all these years by referring to its missing toe instead of say, oh, its missing rest of its body? (Why?! did I think of that now?)

#181. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:03 PM

@180
Transcripts clear that up! But what i think he actually said was "...about to happen to ya-I....can't have you freaking out" That "I" he threw in there did make it sound like he said Island.

#182. Posted by: HurleysTheONE at March 31, 2010 6:06 PM

I guess the Keamy saying Island thing has been figured out by now, but just to put it to rest even a little more: I had close captioning on during the episode and although I don't remember exactly what he said, I'm sure he didn't reference the Island. I would've remembered that.

#183. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:12 PM

by request @181.
haiku cont.

Plain - yes - Simple - no,

Four toe statue had to go,

Eviction notice!

#184. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 6:14 PM

Haikus are easy.
But sometimes they don't make sense. Refrigerator.

#185. Posted by: Cheese at March 31, 2010 6:18 PM

re: And why did we identify the foot of the statue all these years by referring to its missing toe?...
-----
It didn't have a missing toe. It had all of its' toes. All four of them. The rest of the statue was missing. We can't call it the missing Tawaret statue because we never saw that part. I am sure that if we saw a sandaled foot statue with five toes to the left of 4toe and another sandaled foot with six toes next to that, we would have named them similarly. (Just be glad they didn't erect a statue to the fertility god. Well, maybe on Cinemax. But not ABC.)

#186. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 6:24 PM

A couple of things:

1. Desmond coming back to the island opens up an interesting feature. When Jack et al, blow up the unfinished hatch we only see them tossed back on the island in the future. In the now current reality on the island was the station ever even finished, was Desmond ever even in it? Yes, you have a reference to an "incident" in the building of the hatch that could account for this, but it doesn't have to. The actual "reality" of those occurances are only in the minds of the people who experienced it.

2. I doubt Sun not being able to speak English is inconsequential.

3. I'm not persuaded by the discussions of if the people are "better off" or "worse off" on or off the island. That's a matter of perspective. For instance, Hurley may from our view be "better off" in the alt-verse; but even if he knew about the alt-verse (which he doesn't) would he chose that or staying on the island? Personally, I lean towards the latter at this point. Everything with Jacob and MIB with all the people they encounter is the matter of "choice" until and unless the two timelines merge in such a way that the people have full knowledge of their lives in both places, they don't have the ability to choose between the two.

4. MIB can't leave the island unless Jacob lets him or perhaps leaves with him. So MIB can't leave without the replacement letting him or leaving with him, so take all the candidates at once.

5. Widmore believes that if the MIB leaves the island that things "cease to exist" but he also admits that his knowledge of the MIB is sketchy and based on myth in places. But the MIB tells Claire that after they leave the island she can kill Kate, so there is apparently life if MIB leaves the island. Now MIB does lie with great regularity and Widmore may know more than he's saying, but there does seem to be a conflict there.

6. I'm not sure Hurley will be the replacement for Jacob, but I do see him as a very good replacement for Richard.

7. One thing that seems to have escaped people's notice. MIB talked about his "mother" who seems to have had some part in trapping him on the island. There is still going to be, I think, a higher power at play here at some point.

#187. Posted by: Dennis Swanson at March 31, 2010 6:30 PM

@186, DocH: I didn't mean missing as in missing compared to a healthy Egyptian bipedal hippopotamus fertility goddess with feline limbs, but as in missing compared to our human centric expectations.

Ah well, it was just a point that floated to the top of my confused mind, induced by Sayid's state of unhappiness over the loss of his emotions. Nothing to be taken seriously, just some fun.

#188. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:34 PM

@59 re: Also, I'm betting sawyer and miles will end up on the restaurant murder case...
- - - -
Sawyer on a sting against a con woman suggests they are working in the Fraud Division. Why would they suddenly be working a Homicide Division case?
(does Miles even have ghost whispering skills in the F-sideways timeline?)

#189. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 6:35 PM

@187, Dennis Swanson: "But the MIB tells Claire that after they leave the island she can kill Kate, so there is apparently life if MIB leaves the island. Now MIB does lie with great regularity"

That's not exactly what MIB told Claire iirc. He said that after Kater delivered the three remaining candidates to the plane "whatever happens happens". And why do you say MIB lies with great regularity? I only remember his lie about Aaron to Claire. If anything, he seems to go out of his way to tell the truth about himself and his goals. At least, he doesn't outright lie, he might keep information to himself, but doesn't usually give false information. And keeping information to yourself is national sport #1 on the Island. I was surprised that apparently Sawyer had told Jin about Flocke as we found out in yesterday's episode (or did it involve someone else, can't remember exactly... at least someone told someone else about Flocke).

(P.S. Just tried the "preview" button: Didn't work.)

#190. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:40 PM

@186. ...but as in missing compared to our human centric expectations.
- - - -
I knew what you meant. But you answered your own question. We named it 'The Four Toed Statue' - because it was contrary to our human centric expectations - making it a more memorable nomenclature.

#191. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 6:41 PM

@184, DocH: "by request @181.
haiku cont."

Thanks!

#192. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:43 PM

@191, DocH: But it wasn't really a question that needed answering. Just an observation induced by the list of unintelligible contradictions in my post. Anyway, we're making too much out of this. Let's agree to disagree on whether we agree. ;)

#193. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 6:46 PM

@193 re: ...Just an observation....
- - - -
Ohhh. My bad. I have old PC equipment. It doesn't distinguish between regular question marks and rhetorical question marks.
[:^)

#194. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 6:59 PM

#194. DocH: regular question marks and rhetorical question marks:

Now if you had a Mac, on the other hand... ; > ; > ; >

#195. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 31, 2010 7:08 PM

Why don't they eliminate MIB/Locke by each of them attacking him with buckets of water?

Or why didn't Widmore bring a water cannon?

#196. Posted by: Not Zero at March 31, 2010 7:15 PM

The more I think about MIB gathering all the candidates "to get off the island", the more I am convinced the reason he is gathering them is because he needs all the candidates in one place so he can arrange for them to be killed because he doesn't know which one is Jacob's successor. He's going to arrange for all of them to die ...that's why he tells Claire she can come and "whatever happens, happens" with Kate, because Claire will die too.

But thinking that I realize that is the same reason all the Oceanic 6 had to go back to the island, because no one knew which of them Jacob would choose, so all had to return.

#197. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 7:31 PM

@195 Alaïs_Longthought

Oh great, here we go, it finally happened. A Mac vs. PC jab has surfaced on a LOST blog. What's it going to be next, a Firefox or Netscape vs. IE battle? Can't wait for that...

BTW, the IBM PC was introduced on August 12, 1981 and the MAC on January 24th, 1984.

Perhaps DocH is running IE (Text) Version .02

#198. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 31, 2010 7:35 PM

@196 not zero
So your hypothesis is that MIB is the wicked witch of the west?

#199. Posted by: monster34 at March 31, 2010 7:47 PM

Not Zero: Water cannon? At first it seems silly, but why doesn't Widmore have a water cannon?

I am assuming that once Flocke is on Hydra, he can covert to Smokey again; it's Smokey, not Flocke, for whom water is a problem. Is that why sudden downpours have been important on LOST?

An ocean of water and a water cannon could slow Smokey down.

#200. Posted by: undauntid at March 31, 2010 7:48 PM

Minor grievance. Alright. Less than 24 hours since the end of The Package and folks can't stay on topic. About 50 of prev 200-ish comments with nothing to add to the topic. Latrines, seedlings in sewers, Jeopardy, PC wars.... really? plz. The party is coming to a close here in a few weeks, and Mac Slocum is gonna be all "moving along people... you don't have to go home... but you can't stay here".

I quaintly request that we all tighten our belts a little in the brain power use/abuse department. Let - 'us putting our best foot forward' - for the next two months be our permanent legacy when this blog gets frozen in archive somewhere in the not too distant future.

(no more food-fights with our Dharma Peanut Butter Cups - Hey! You got Seacrest on my ealgumby... Yeah! Well you got ealgumby on my Seacrest. If it's not worth reading - it shouldn't be worth writing. Go find a padded-Filmfodder Forum for therapy and/or to duke-it-out in.)

#201. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 8:01 PM

#198. dbwebdude & #201. DocH: My sincerest apologies for offending you both w/my PC-Mac joke. I thought that the three emoticons at the end of the sentence were enough to indicate that I was just joking, but evidently not.

#202. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 31, 2010 8:05 PM

Does anybody know, or have a solid theory, on how long it has been since the Aljira crash for Sun, Ben et al? Just trying to figure out timelines (a fool's errand I know)

#203. Posted by: surefoot at March 31, 2010 8:08 PM

@202. Alais: My sincerest apologies for offending you both w/my PC-Mac joke.
- - - -
No offense taken here. My beef is about the focus of all the wonderful brain-power here. It is the day after the episode and many comments have already degraded to the level of Monday, close-of-business, can't wait, just blowing-off steam, jokes'n'jabs.

#204. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 8:15 PM

Regarding MIB, Flocke, Smokey and water: Since we saw Flocke standing in water, my best guess at this moment would be that Smokey can't travel over water, but in Flocke form MIB can. Hence he cannot just turn into Smokey and fly away, but he can turn into Flocke and stand in the water or take a boat. He might even be able to swim short distances as Flocke, who knows. At least this seems consistent with what we've seen (right?), no way to tell if this is what TPTB have in mind until they tell or, preferably, show us.

#205. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 8:23 PM

Which reminds me... Smoke on the Water, Fire in the Sky...And when the hatch imploded, didn't the sky turn a Deep Purple?

#206. Posted by: Plain Simple at March 31, 2010 8:27 PM

@189. Posted by: DocH

I like your "F-sideways timeline"

reference. And no the F isn't for Flash in my mind.

#207. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 8:36 PM

Plain Simple: I actually thought the way you played off the weepict's comment was moderately profound - even though you weren't trying to be. Made me say "hmmmm..." I liked it.

August Paul: Congrats on 50 years of marriage. We just celebrated our 30th. My husband gave up on Lost, too, and I do my random recap on the way to work on Wednesdays. I laughed when you said you didn't recognize Mikhail without his eye patch because I had the opposite reaction. I said to myself, there is something different about Mihail...

Alias_Longthought: Sayid suffering from depression is simple yet brilliant. What about Claire, could she just have a mental illness? I guess I'm somehow still looking for logical answers to some of my questions.

Lost2theworld: I frequently agree with your comments, but I don't really want MIB and Jacob to be a split personality...oh then again...that is a form of mental illness, too, isn't it?

#208. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at March 31, 2010 8:43 PM

The afore discussed degeneration of the blog. I think this is my main gripe about the show lately. In years past intelligent speculation and deep analysis was the norm. It seems to me the show just doesn't lend it self to that any more.:-(

#209. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 8:47 PM

#110. undauntid: I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you in your search...& thank you for the well-wishes. : ) BTW, I just can't used to spelling "undaunted" any other way than how it was in the Forums...I'm enough of a geezer on the site that I remember when you were the Mexican-sombrero'd intrepid! : )

#118. The Other Kate: Classic Star Trek episode w/Joan Collins:

It's "The City on the Edge of Forever"...one of my favorite episodes. I love DeForest Kelley's acting.

#163. lost2theworld: Sayid's character:

I too like Sayid & hope that his character has a positive outcome, but am not feeling very hopeful about that.

#176. samiam: Why Desmond failed to push the button:

You're correct in remembering it was something to do w/the yellow hazmat suit...9/22/04 was the day that Desmond noticed that the suit Kelvin was wearing had a rip in it (in the leg, I believe), which told Des that Kelvin had been lying all along about the atmosphere of the island being poisonous, which meant that Des had been kept prisoner for three years for no reason. Des angrily followed Kelvin & discovered that he (Kelvin) had been repairing the Elizabeth, the yacht that Des had crashed into the island on, w/the intent of sailing away & leaving Des behind. Des attacked Kelvin & in the struggle Kelvin's head was smacked into a rock & he died. Des then realized that he had been out of the hatch for too long, & even w/a desperate sprint back to the hatch, didn't arrive in time to push the button before 108 minutes had elapsed.

#203. surefoot: Timeline:

According to Lostpedia (insert standard disclaimer here about how it's not necessarily canon ; ) ), our Ajirans have been on the island for nine days.

#210. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at March 31, 2010 8:50 PM

@203. surefoot ... how long it has been since the Ajira crash for Sun, Ben et al? Just trying to figure out timelines.

I've been tracking (imprecisely). It has been about 2.5 to 3 weeks.
They got off Hydra pretty quickly (D2)
There was the trip to the Barracks. There was the march to T4TS to kill Jacob.
There were days+ in Temple.
Now the march from Temple with FLocke.
- - - -
Here is the thing. That means the last time we saw Desmond - walking out of Hawkings church, later assaulted by Ben at the dock - was about three weeks prior to his being delivered as 'The Package'. That means Widmore only had 2.5 to 3 weeks to capture Des, get Des on the sub, assemble Team Widmore, then get the sub to the island.

Q: How did Widmore even know where to take the sub?

A: Widmore didn't know until someone told him that all of the Losties were getting on the Ajira flight. Hmmm. I wonder who "ratted" on them? Of course she mentioned to Widmore too that the one man that they had sent to the island, Desmond, was running around SoCal after he stormed out of her science basement.

#211. Posted by: DocH at March 31, 2010 8:55 PM

If smokey can't leave the island, who/what took over Christian Shepards body when he ventured off the island???

#212. Posted by: Dags at March 31, 2010 8:55 PM

@202 Alaïs_Longthought

You didn't offend me... I forgot to add a smiley face at the end to note I thought it was funny. I should have added my own emoticons... :>) My bad...

@201 DocH

Whoa... there have been hundreds of similar posts over the years that make us laugh or respond to comments perhaps outside the realm of the event. Like Wiki tells us... "The ability of readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs..."

So why now do we (or you) decide to impart our desires on others, just because LOST nears the end? I think not.

I would like to kindly (and I truly mean that) remind you that you have posted comments (http://tinyurl.com/ylzxvu2 @138) before that might have been interpreted as comical/off topic/just a way to express your feelings at the time. I didn't see any negative replies to your comments at the time and they could have possibly been taken as "off-topic".

So I "quaintly" ask that we all put forth what comments we have and let the generations that follow decide. This is not a scientific exploration, it is a snapshot of who we are and the generation that we live in. Perhaps the future will look back and say... "Wow..., those people really knew how to express themselves... wish we had that."

#213. Posted by: dbwebdude at March 31, 2010 9:02 PM


#158. Posted by: LostIsFound
Whitmore brought Desmond back to the island because he knows how to use the magnetic fields to keep MIB on the island. I believe the numbers and pressing the button was to keep Smokey/MIB contained somewhere.
Thoughts on that?
and
#172. Posted by: jade
My theory has always been that pushing the button every 108 minutes set time back that far each time, not allowing the fetus to grow.

Hmmmm. This is interesting too.Perhaps the answers to all our questions are in the first 2 or 3 seasons. (Schedules in hours of re watch on weekly planner)

@Alais...and others,
regarding Sayid, he does not seem to exhibit the craziness of Rousseau or Claire. He's just empty. He is in complete despair. One of the greatest sins as I remember my catechism. So I guess his soul is "lost" (ahem) until FLocke or someone gives him direction. And whether good or bad, he will follow it.

#164. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought
I covered for Cecil in the '90s. ; ) And ealgumby was on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, & Vikki won an episode of The Price Is Right (I think that's "right" ; > ). There was a ton of discussion on the topic of who's been on what game shows during the hiatus in February/March 20008, if you want to check out those threads. : )
Good grief, I Know they SOUND smart and use real words and make logical connections but I did not know they have been on a TV game show! Wow! They really ARE smart! ;)

#203. Posted by: surefoot
Just trying to figure out timelines (a fool's errand I know)

Lostpedia has a good timeline section.

Speaking of the Tomato.... And someone was, I forget who. Is this symbolic of not giving up? Not despairing? I know the writers reach to all kinds of connections for this show, but there is a group called Pink Martini and they sing a song called "Hang on Little Tomato"
Wait! NO, Really! LOL. It's good!
Is the Tomato trying to tell us something?

Pink Martini
Hang on Little Tomato Lyrics

Pink Martini
Hang on Little Tomato Lyrics
:
The sun has left and forgotten me
It's dark, I cannot see
Why does this rain pour down
I'm gonna drown
In a sea
Of deep confusion

Somebody told me, I don't know who
Whenever you are sad and blue
And you're feelin' all alone and left behind
Just take a look inside and you will find

You gotta hold on, hold on through the night
Hang on, things will be all right
Even when it's dark
And not a bit of sparkling
Sing-song sunshine from above
Spreading rays of sunny love

Just hang on, hang on to the vine
Stay on, soon you'll be divine
If you start to cry, look up to the sky
Something's coming up ahead
To turn your tears to dew instead

And so I hold on to his advice
When change is hard and not so nice
You listen to your heart the
whole night through
Your sunny someday will come
one day soon to you
Lyrics: Hang on Little Tomato, Pink Martini
http://www.mp3lyrics.org/p/pink-martini/hang-on-little-tomato/

#214. Posted by: berlyo at March 31, 2010 9:03 PM

@197. undauntid: "because no one knew which of them Jacob would choose":

I'm not sure that's how it works - if Jacob is an orthodox free-willer (So how much are they paying you to be my jailer?) then wouldn't the candidate have to choose himself? Someone has to decide to stay to protect the island, or die, or whatever the hell it is that happened to Jacob.

#215. Posted by: LockeBox at March 31, 2010 9:07 PM

#209. Posted by: mtncbn
The afore discussed degeneration of the blog. I think this is my main gripe about the show lately. In years past intelligent speculation and deep analysis was the norm. It seems to me the show just doesn't lend it self to that any more.:-(

I think it was easier to theorize and put this with that and come up with some scathingly brilliant conclusions - and who was to say we were wrong? and of course, anything was possible because we really did not know anything. Or not as much as we do now. Some would say we still don't know anything. But Now that we are running out of time, we have to make our mental ramblings make sense with the end we see coming. I think it's not as much fun. We all have a picture of how we think it should end. At this point I just want it to end so I know what happened. Even if it isn't what I thought happened. Maybe that's what Whatever happened Happened means.

#216. Posted by: berkyo at March 31, 2010 9:16 PM

im going to give this episode 7 out of 10,
it was almost 6 out of 10,
but as always i enjoy any episode featuring the smugness of our old buddy chuck widmore,
almost every scene i have seen widmore in reveals something of substance,
in the battle for the island i think he will win,
widmore is passionate about the island,
his rivals:
locke,flocke,mocke,MIB,smokey(all 1 guy) wants to leave,
jacob only stays to keep locke flocke...thingy do-da there,
in my opinion i dont think any of these people are or ever were candidates,
they have been caught up in a game between 2 masters of deception,
the story thus far paints jacob as a kind gentle man who has a point to prove against evil,
MIB is shown in a very different light.

#217. Posted by: san at March 31, 2010 9:24 PM

Alais_Longthought re: answers. We have a Lost discussion board at work, and today one of my coworkers posted a dozen questions that he "needed" answers to before Lost ended. It made me realize I do not feel the same way. I want answers on only two areas: Candidates (namely how are they chosen, other than death how are they eliminated, and who or what will make the final selection?) and flash sideways (namely how does it tie in with the timeline we've been watching since season one). I will enjoy any other revelations that come our way, but if I never learn the precise reason that Miles and Hurley can communicate with the dead (in two completely different ways), Walt can summon birds, or how the Island heals I'm okay with accepting that it occurred without knowing the why. Same goes for Ben's cancer and the pregnancy troubles. Heck, Richard even said something along the lines that Ben was wasting his time with trivial issues like pregnancy instead of focusing on what was really important backbin season 3!

I know others feel differently and are going to be disappointed if their favorite mystery are not resolved, but I'm just enjoying the ride.

#218. Posted by: FenwayBen at March 31, 2010 10:04 PM

From darkUFO Vozzek69 recap

"There's no possible way you can convince me that Keamy didn't say "Just in case you figure out what's about to happen TO THE ISLAND..." here. Closed captioning can kiss my ass, that's what the man said. "

He also hi-lights 8 things we learned for sure!

Off to read Robz888 at same place.

#219. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 10:54 PM

@200. Posted by: undauntid

I really don't think water is his kryptonite. For some reason, he can't fly over it. As someone mentioned previously, perhaps the strange main island geologic locations are what also help him be all smokey?


@201. Posted by: DocH
@209. Posted by: mtncbn
re: We need to be serious here folks!!!

Bah humbug!

It has been pointed out that this blog has a long deep rooted history of silliness. If memory serves me correct, Season 3 in particular ranked really high on the silliness scale, where things such as MIF, and Cindy's scarf gave us hearty chuckles a plenty. If memory serves me correct, the same old battles and complaints were raised back then.

It's almost like life is imitating art, with all the dueling going on over here!

We have the serious VS the clowns (refer to me as the flasher clown: "Ex-bozo")
We have seacrest VS ealgumby
We have smokey VS cindy's scarf (rumour has it the show down is two weeks from now)

And like the show, the war seems to be building up! Who is gonna win? ;)

In any case - I'm a renaissance Lost man - I like a little bit of everything.
At times I can go pretty deep, while at others - pie in the face.
I pick away at things that bug me, and laugh at the things that amuse me.
As much as I love this show, I think it is dangerous to take it too seriously.

In other words....
We all have to learn to live together, or die alone!


@205. Posted by: Plain Simple
re: water

Yup - that sounds like you've nailed it so far, based on the info we have been given.


@216. Posted by: berkyo
re: time is the fire in which we burn

Yup - We're all getting anxious as time is running out, and we are getting closer to the finish line! And spring is in the air....


@218. Posted by: FenwayBen
re: I'm just enjoying the ride.

The surf is totally up, and I'm with you bruddah!
I plan on riding the big Kahuna with a big smile on my face!

#220. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 11:06 PM

One more thing....

For those of you who like to indulge in a little comic strip tee-hee-hee's, click on my name for the latest waka-waka's!

#221. Posted by: shikotee at March 31, 2010 11:10 PM

I think the fact that we are 24 hours in and being silly already is a testament to the fact that...

1. we are getting answers

2. we don't have as many questions to pose OR

3. we accept that what will be answered, will be answered in the next two months for better or worse

I enjoy it all!

#222. Posted by: lost2theworld at March 31, 2010 11:23 PM

@220. Posted by: shikotee

"re: We need to be serious here folks!!!"
I have no problem, and really enjoy the silly tangents of this blog. My comments were only about my perceived change in the shows blogability(I don't think that's a word).

"In other words....
We all have to learn to live together, or die alone!"
touche! (once again I may have fumbled that one- like fencing? term. aka point=shikotee)

#223. Posted by: mtncbn at March 31, 2010 11:35 PM

@Alais

Thanks for the review! But my question still nags: Other than Jacob 'pushing' them onto the plane, where is his interaction/instruction that allows for Desmond to abandon his duties? I'm just trying to tie it all up to the begining...unless we are to believe that arrival on the island is a mixture of 'pushing' and destiny.

#224. Posted by: samiam at March 31, 2010 11:43 PM

On aphasia, from My Sister The Speech Pathologist, who has specialized in stroke & head trauma patients for 25 yrs:
"It is actually documented that some people who have had strokes revert back to their birth language, even if they have not spoken it in 50 years. I have had maybe one patient with this phenomenon. It is somewhat unusual that she would totally lose her English, but it is a TV show. It's in the script. Aphasia is loss of language after stroke. Head injury patients can also exhibit aphasia."

#225. Posted by: hurling at March 31, 2010 11:57 PM

@Undaunted & Alaïs - Maybe you should switch to Dauntless? ;)

#226. Posted by: hurling at April 1, 2010 12:34 AM

@Undaunted & Alaïs - Maybe you should switch to Dauntless? ;)

#227. Posted by: hurling at April 1, 2010 12:37 AM

A long post in "Defense of the Numbers"- not an attack on ealgumby's post from the last blog, just a different perspective.

Acknowledging that trying to explain something that D&C are determined to leave ambiguous is probably whistling in the dark, we can still peel back the onion, IMO:

1. With the motif as island-as-prison, Jacob-as-jailer, MIB's potential escape represents some sort of "end of days" event, whether full-on apocalypse (western religion) or end of current time cycle (eastern religion).

The Valenzetti Equation predicted when these end of days would take place (could it be 2007-2008, as in current events on island?).

2. In the Valenzetti Equation, the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 were identified as human OR environmental factors that lead to this end of days. The Dharma Initiative was founded to change any ONE of these factors.

Because this was the central purpose of Dharma, they used these numbers and their combinations everywhere- from the numbers engraved on the hatch to the code needed to push the "button".

3. The Dharma Initiative built a radio tower to broadcast these numbers until a solution was found- sort of a doomsday clock. At the very least, this transmission was heard by Sam and Leonard (and then passed on to Hurley), as well as the Rousseau team.

4. The Dharma Initiave ended before it could successfully determine whether the numbers were environmental factors which could be changed (directly said in the Lost Experience, inferred in the show).

Implication- the change needed to save the world was a human factor, not environmental. Second implication: the solution would be driven not by science, but by faith.

5. Cue the faith part. Jacob selected 360 "candidates" to potentially replace him, with the intention of maintaining the island prison and preventing the end of days. Both the cave and lighthouse reinforce the number of candidates.

Why 360? Degrees in a circle, corresponding to the symbolic nature of the circle and the life cycle, nature of time, etc.

6. Jacob used the lighthouse to select and/or view and/or call the candidates to the island.

The exact process of how this occurred is unknown, and I highly doubt this will ever be explained. In the context of the show, I'm not sure the "how" is anywhere as important as the "why", which was revealed this season.

In addition, does it matter why Jacob assigned #20 to Rousseau, #31 to Rutherford, etc,?

Jacob may have known the candidates but not the final equation, resulting in a lot of unnecessary people (and their subsequent deaths) coming to the island.

Dharma, Valenzetti and mathematics had determined the final equation, but had not understood that the numbers were people.

Combining the scientific and the spiritual, the pool is narrowed from 360 to 6, one of which must be changed to prevent the end of days: Locke, Reyes, Ford, Jarrah, Shepherd and Kwon.

7. For MIB to leave and cause the end of days, none of these six numbers can be changed, i.e. become the new Jacob. They must either be killed (Locke, Sayid) or neutralized by coming over to his side- and as several posters have already commented, that may amount to the same thing.

8. There is a mystical, spirtual element to the numbers which adds to the mythology of the show. Why do they appear everywhere? Are they a message from God (as Jake or Elwood would say) or some other higher being? Do they represent an urgent message from the universe? And would we enjoy the show any more if that was clearly answered on the show?

From the TPTB perspective, that answer is no:

Lindelof: "There are some questions that are very engaging and interesting, and then there are other questions that we have no interest whatsoever in answering...because at a certain point, explaining something mystical demystifies it. To try and have a character come and say, "Here is what the numbers mean," actually makes every usage of the numbers up to that point less interesting."

There are a couple of quotes from D&C several years ago that pop up here frequently and are often taken out of context.

One is the "no time travel" in Lost, which was an answer to a question after season 1, when D&C were bombarded with where/when island questions and generally answered no to them all: is it Atlantis? purgatory or hell? Eden? Did the Oceanic plane travel through time?

The second misquote is that everything on Lost has a scientific basis. In that interview, they said Lost had to pass the "Jurassic Park" test of scientific reality- you must believe that a scientific process exists to clone dinos to become immersed in the story.

D&C said Lost has to contain enough scientific basis to suspend disbelief while deliberately skirting the line between science and the supernatural. Admittedly, this line will fall in a different place for each of us, but I personally have never felt misled or betrayed by the writing. Disapointed? Occasionally. Engaged? Always. Manipulated? Nope.

#228. Posted by: Mizzed at April 1, 2010 1:08 AM

Anyone else thought that when Sun was getting angry with Richard she seemed to be one of the only sane people left on the Island? She, and perhaps Jin. I seem to remember saying that before...

@216, berkyo: "We all have a picture of how we think it should end."

I don't think I do, not in any detail anyway. I just hope it sort kinda makes sense and doesn't resort to the "everything goes because it's `supernatural' " type of thing it slowly starts to look like. Even if you have fantastical elements in your story, there should still be some limits or else we, as viewers, get jerked out of the story every time a new boundary is crossed. Consider this hypothetical situation: In the final episodes aliens land and do whatever needs to be done to bring the show to a close. Wouldn't you feel cheated that we have watched and tried to understand these characters for six years, only for some unprecedented element to be introduced into the show to explain everything away? It feels a little bit like that every time a new ghost or never before seen magical building, or new important characters we've never seen before or even new realities pop up and take time away from the characters and story lines we actually have been following. What good has all the clue dropping and hypothesizing and hinting at underlying stories been, if it doesn't lead to something in the end? It's not real life, it's a story. And a story needs an end.


@218, FenwayBen, re: Who wants answers to what and why?

Everyone probably has their favorite little questions and answers, but there are a couple that have played such a big role over large parts of the show that TPTB shouldn't hope that we just forget about them. The two you mention (candidates and flash parallels) are among them, but they are mainly season 6 questions. There are a few big ones left from earlier seasons (what's the deal with Waaaaaalllt! -- seasons 1 and 2 mainly; related to that, why the fertility problems on the Island? ... this was a major plot point in the first half of the show; the over-arching question What Is The Island? And then of course, what are the goals and allegiances of the main players... MIB, Jacob, perhaps Christian, Widmore, Hawking, Ben to some extent; perhaps even why are The Numbers so special? All these things are not individual plot points that were raised and never answered, but they are vital to the overall structure of the story and hopefully will be answered to some extend. TPTB can give a gazillion interviews in which they claim that it is all about the characters, but fact is that these characters for the past six years have been pawns in a larger game in which the aforementioned plot points and people pulled the strings, so they better give us the background against which we have to interpret these characters. In my ever so humble opinion of course. ;) That's not to say that I'm not enjoying the ride, but I think the whole, when the show is complete, will be much better and have added rewatch-value, if the main back bone of the story is clarified. Doesn't mean every little mystery should be solved... It's fun if there are some things left to guess, hypothesize, and interpret.


@224, samiam: "Thanks for the review! But my question still nags: Other than Jacob 'pushing' them onto the plane, where is his interaction/instruction that allows for Desmond to abandon his duties? I'm just trying to tie it all up to the begining...unless we are to believe that arrival on the island is a mixture of 'pushing' and destiny."

Or if, like I pointed out in comment #460 for last week's episode, we have to focus on what we've actually seen Jacob do, instead of what he claims to be doing. We've seen him punch Richard, touch a bunch of people, and die. Whoop-ti-doo. O yeah, and he lived for what seemed to be quite some time (unless there is some time travel weirdness involved and he actually didn't live through all the intermediate time between Black Rock & Oceanic 815). Some might want to add "appearing in Hugo's mind" to that list, and although that seems the most straightforward explanation, it is also an incredibly unlikely one judged by real-life standards, so I'm a bit reluctant yet to accept that as a given. We might be played there.

Lindelof via Mizzed @228: "To try and have a character come and say, "Here is what the numbers mean," actually makes every usage of the numbers up to that point less interesting."

I agree to some degree, having a character say it is not very interesting. But at least one would hope that TPTB have had a consistent idea in mind over the years when using the Numbers so that, in theory, someone could go over all the episodes and be able to reconstruct that idea from the clues they've put in the episodes. If it's just "ah well, the numbers can mean whatever they mean; it's mysterious after all... oooohhh...ahhhh... mystery..." then I call BS. That's not mysterious, that's just lazy writing. I'm not saying that is the actual case, but Lindelof's quote doesn't alleviate this concern either.


Hmm, I might come across angry in this post. I don't intend to, still enjoying the show. I just hope that TPTB can deliver and not weasel out with ridiculous nonsense about how making sense out of a story somehow demystifies it. They sound like those people who claim that knowing the science behind a flower takes away one's appreciation for the simple beauty of it. Nonsense! It intensifies your awe and opens up wonders you never considered possible. It doesn't restrict your view, but opens up more angles to look at it. Not only is it now a beautiful flower, but it is this whole microcosm of ideas and concepts, complex interconnections between small scale and larger scale structures. It opens up the possibility not only to appreciate the flower, but to appreciate the world it lives in, to appreciate its interaction with us, through our senses, through our brains. It becomes a gateway to learn more about ourselves and the world. Good stories are like the flower + science. Other stories might look just like a flower, but when you dig deeper there's nothing there. I think all of us have stuck with Lost for these six years because we think there is something there. Let's hope we're right and I just misinterpreted Lindelof's quote in the worst way possible.

#229. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 2:01 AM

okay - some random thoughts, sorry very tired, does anyone have any ideas?
1. desmond didn't unleash the smoke monster - remember it was there when they first arrived, before the hatch
2. Is desmond brought back by Widmore as the next candidate for Jacob?
3. real life and 'island' life are obviously in direct correlaton. what they decide to do in island life affects them in real life
4. Sun hits her head and black outs....did she die, did she become a Sayid... and isn't it a coincident that Ben found her?.... hmmmm
5. When they die in one world you don't see them in the other world anymore. Sun hit her head and let's say she died... does that mean she also died in the 'alt' life. Sayid died in the island life and you don't see him anymore in the alt life
6. what happen to the girl that hurley liked.
7. What did Sayid's body (when he died) say to Miles, remember Miles looked like he heard something?
8. Why did Ben and his father come back from the island
9. in one of the first episodes... you see jack saying " i love you, just wanted to hear you're voice'. we assumed that he was talking to a girlfriend etc about the death of his father... but in fact in this season you see that he was leaving the message for his son.
10. Everyone has a child to worry about a child in the 'alt life etc. Sayid has his niece and nephew, Kate- claire, jack his son, sawyer his son, Sun and Gin

#230. Posted by: so lost at April 1, 2010 2:04 AM

@212 Dags
THIS QUESTION WAS REALLY GOOD DAGS!!!!!
If smokey can't leave the island, who/what took over Christian Shepards body when he ventured off the island???

#231. Posted by: Christina at April 1, 2010 2:07 AM

13. Money in the suitcase for Jin and Sun... does anyone remember that Sun was the one who put it in there? and then she asked jin where it came from, I don't get it, she put it in there because she was going to escape from Jin?
14. If they're marriage never happened as shown in the new episode.. .then how did Jacob touch them? Remember they were standing there and Jacob wished them good luck and then touched them and then the both of them said... who was that?

#232. Posted by: so lost at April 1, 2010 2:09 AM

@228/Mizzed - "There are a couple of quotes ... often taken out of context."

Not that it really matters, but:

http://tinyurl.com/ydsoppj

"Lindelof said that a DVD set of the first season will come out this summer, before a second season begins in the fall. As the show progresses, he added, it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. 'We're still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,' he said in an interview. 'I don't think we've shown anything on the show yet ... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn't be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel.'"

Like I said, not that it really matters, but I am curious why it can't simply be that he was ... wrong? Why do we need to somehow show that he didn't really say, what actually, he did? I totally no longer care about what was said by TPTB during season one, but really, what happened, happened, and what he said, he said. Sometimes I get the feeling it's almost sacrilegious to suggest TPTB are not infallible ... and what's so wrong if they are, in fact, human?

"Absurdity, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion." - Ambrose Bierce

We are all absurd.

#233. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 2:29 AM

@@@@@@@@@Newsflash@@@@@@@@@

ABC just announced a surprise season 7 with an additional 10 new episodes airing this summer!!!! Lindelof and Cuse lobbied ABC for the additional episodes, arguing that they just didn't have enough airtime left to wrap up the series and answer all the outstanding questions.

In a separate announcement, ABC announced that J.J. Abrams has been brought in to revive the "V" franchise and has promised Lost fans to remove the "V" countdown timer during the airing of Lost episodes.

#234. Posted by: April Fool's Dude at April 1, 2010 6:39 AM

OK, back on topic.

Cecil theorized @119 (and earlier) that (paraphrasing) alt 815 could have occurred and then something knocks them and their memories back in time to the state of S-1, Ep-1 and plunks them down on the island. But wouldn't that negate all the alt timeline differences that occurred prior to 2004, waaaaay prior to 2004 (e.g., Sun and Jin not being married)?

That got me thinking about Sun and Jin's wedding ring and linkage between the alt and original timelines. Isn't it interesting that Sun and Jin are still apart on the island and they are not married in the alt world (and Jin doesn't have a wedding ring in either)? They've made a pretty big deal about that wedding ring so I think there could be some relevance.

Not so sure about Sun's aphasia, because she was speaking only Korean in the alt time prior to her run-in with the tree in island time. But then again maybe we're not supposed to notice that, just like we weren't supposed to notice that Mikhail never translated "Your secret is safe with me" back to Jin from Keamy.

#235. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 1, 2010 7:05 AM

Ealgumby, you're ignoring the word "yet" in the quote you posted. Maybe you're right that TPTB had no idea in season one what directions they would take the show in. Or maybe they deliberately waited until later seasons to slowly expand the sci fi and mystical elements of the show. In the end, does it even matter?

Alais_longthought, I know I won't change your opinion, but given that we only have 6 episodes left to the finale, I'd rather they didn't dredge back up Walt's storyline, which has essentially been over for 4 years now. When the season started, I was excited that we might get a Charlie story since he is one of my favorite characters. But I have since realized there is really no where to go with his story any more. Cameos in the off Island world by characters that are dead in the original time line are fun, but with so little tine left I agree with DamCar's decision to focus on the remaining regular cast members and what is important to them. None of the people currently on the Island care why Walt was special. Unless TPTB have decided that Walt is the key to the finale and bring him back, how do you even bring up the subject again? A long exposition scene talking about a character we haven't seen for years? That isn't very good writing in my opinion. Do any of the people currently care about the pregnancy issue? Nope. Ben used to, but his priorities have shifted majorly. Jin and Sun cared because she was pregnant, Kate cared because she might get pregnant, Claire cared because she was pregnant and a guinea pig...none of that applies today. Do any of them care about the numbers? Yes. Hurley thinks they're cursed. Maybe this one still has more explanation to come.

Just MHO, but I don't need to see old storylines reopened that have been closed for years even with dangling threads.

#236. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 1, 2010 7:30 AM

@233/ealgumby:

"Sometimes I get the feeling it's almost sacrilegious to suggest TPTB are not infallible ... and what's so wrong if they are, in fact, human?"

No argument from me- I have been extremely critical about the sideways plot line this year.

I have posted in the past about the story directions or character arcs have been scrapped because they simply weren't serving the story well- in general, D&C have been pretty open about admitting the mistakes and moving on.

I do think they have been remarkably consistent within their vision of where the central story arc needs to go, pruning the unnecessary branches with each succeeding season.

#237. Posted by: Mizzed at April 1, 2010 8:39 AM

@236/FenwayBen – “Ealgumby, you're ignoring the word ‘yet’ in the quote you posted.”

Actually, no, I did not. First, and most importantly, I did not bring up the issue, which IMO has now expired (pertinent a few seasons ago, yes, but no longer); I merely replied to a suggestion that the nature of the quote was one of rapid-fire Q&A yes/no answers, taken out of context. I know everyone sees things through their own lens, but surely you aren’t suggesting that is the case, right? It’s not so much exactly what he said, but rather *that* he said it; that was my intended point.

Okay, now on to the fine semantics of the word “yet” embedded within the quote (once again, I emphasize that I did not bring this point up, although I now expect to get jumped on by somebody for nitpicking! ;) ) Yikes, talk about talking things out of context … within the context of the surrounding quote, there is no indication Damon was trying to imply any plans (or even options) for future use of time travel, et al. IMO, to suggest otherwise is to assign WAY too much importance to what is effectively a superfluous, conversational filler word. At the risk of offending (and Jacob knows I’m loathe to that ;) ), I think it’s more than a tad unreasonable to dismiss the clear intent of the entire quote, based upon the haphazard insertion of one throw-away three-letter word buried in its midst.

Finally, it really doesn't matter what Damon’s intent behind the word “yet” was anyway. Let’s just say I take the position that “yet” does carry clever significance, what difference does it make? In that case, we’d have conclusive evidence of TPTB intentionally jerking the audience’s collective chain, which doesn’t strike me as being worthy of kudos. If the word “yet” means nothing, which is the case IMO, then we see that there have likely been changes made to the direction of the show since season one, which is fine. I have *never* had a problem with TPTB changing things up as they go, and I say that whether or not they even had an underlying grand concept guiding things since day one. When this quote was brought up originally, it was not done to demonstrate that point, as much as it was to show that they were being more than slightly disingenuous by implying everything had been planned all along. Then (as now), suggesting that anything other than absolute truth might flow from the mouths of Damon and Carlton, was likely to bring swift rebukes from many (should I add "fire away" here? ;) ).

Ultimately though, as you suggest, it just doesn’t matter, does it? I thought I had (apparently not) made that point, by twice stating “not that it really matters” … I said what I meant, and I meant what I said.

#238. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 9:03 AM

@237/Mizzed - I agree! Peace. :)

#239. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 9:04 AM

Sorry if this posted twice. I hit post but nothing showed the first time.

Ok, forgive me but I only got up to 185 but I need to get to work and have a few thoughts to throw out there.

First, didn't Jin start off with two watches?

Next, we've got Mrs. Hawkins saying everyone must return to the island and now we have Flocke saying everyone must leave the island. Could these two be working together? She also said that Desmond had to return. Guess who's back.

I can't get a clear picture of who's working with who or whom, whatever.

Clarity anyone?

#240. Posted by: pebspostal at April 1, 2010 9:27 AM

Re making changes as the show progresses ... one final point.

I have made the point many times in the past, that it would be a sign of great writing, to have everything presented on the show fall within an internally consistent framework. I still believe that, absolutely. In terms of writing a book, I'd consider this essential. Yet these things take time ... and lots of it!

I also realize, that in television, this is not ever likely to be the case with an original screenplay. There are too many variables in terms of schedule, funding, cast, and changes in direction from upper management, for that to ever be a reasonable expectation.

I've also stated that I think the writers for Lost have found a way to mitigate the problem (a loophole, if you will ;) ), via the "stub" technique I've beaten to death here in previous discussions. It does make things annoying at times, when threads are left dangling without resolution, but overall I certainly have no problem with that. I just think that reality is something which should be acknowledged.

I know many will disagree with me on this point, but I simply do not believe D&C when they aver that every major plot element has been planned since the beginning. Not only is it unlikely, for practical reasons I've mentioned above, but we also have too many canonical indications this is not the case. Whatever "complaining" I have done in the past with regard to this point has always centered around TPTB's denial of change along the way, rather than the necessity for change itself.

I just wanted to clarify ... that is all.

#241. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 9:30 AM


Keamy thick tongue talk
plus strike against silly stuff
makes me scream out AAAUUUUGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

#242. Posted by: davidhr at April 1, 2010 9:32 AM


Whoops! It appears I posted with my alias.

#243. Posted by: davidrh at April 1, 2010 9:34 AM

The thing that sucks most about this season.

1. No more Dr. Change/Candle/Wickman/candleabra Dharma training videos. The writers owe us the full unedited version of all of these videos so that we can see what was cut off.

The way this show should end is with one last video from Chang that sums up the whole series.

#244. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 1, 2010 9:47 AM

@179. vintage "(Anyone Hear Keamy Say Something About The Island) AHKSSATI"

Haha love it!

@219. mtncbn "There's no possible way you can convince me that Keamy didn't say "Just in case you figure out what's about to happen TO THE ISLAND..."

I really hope Keamy said soemthing about the island because... well that would just be cooler. :)

#245. Posted by: Christin at April 1, 2010 9:48 AM

At this pace this show is going to end with more loose ends than a whorehouse on a Saturday night.

#246. Posted by: gables79 at April 1, 2010 9:49 AM

Couple of points:

1. If Widmore thinks Desmond is the key to stopping or containing MIB, there is no evidence of any skill set Dez had on the island except a) punching numbers in a keyboard, and b) running through the jungle.

2. In the past, tomatoes were considered poison because they are part of the nightshade family. It is odd that Dynamite Jack found a single tomato on a dead vine in an overgrown garden.

3. It is possible that Sun hit her head and "died" like Sayid, and now has to be "retouched" to be claimed by either Jacob or MIB.

4. Sun refused to follow Richard to Hydra Island, but in the end she agrees to the same thing with Jack. Question: did we really see Jack with Sun or someone else in Jack's form?

5. I can't wait for the enhanced version of "The Package" in Egyptian hieroglyphs.

#247. Posted by: welh at April 1, 2010 9:52 AM

Keamy didn't say a thing about any Island. When I watched the show online it did sound like he say Island, but then when I watched it at home on my $5000 system it was clear as day that he doesn't say island. He just says I *pause* can't

#248. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 1, 2010 9:57 AM

@210 Alais_Longthought: Yikes! You mentioned something I hadn't thought of, viz., Desmond being on the island for three years before he noticed Kelvin's hazmat suit had a tear in it. If this was thoroughly discussed in season 2, then I apologize. But if Desmond had been on the island for three years, what was he doing in the football stadium talking to Jack? Did he start on his sailboat race the day after the stadium? Let me think here. The stadium incident occurred while Jack was contemplating the operation that introduced him to his wife. If so, then the entire time is ok. I guess Jack and Desmond recognizing each other after three years made the interval seem less than that. Too much stuff in this show to keep track of!

#249. Posted by: August Paul at April 1, 2010 10:02 AM

@247. I agree. All of a sudden Desmond is going to be this secret weapon against MIB. The only thing I can think of is that he is the heir apparent to Jacob and will be able to contain MIB. Maybe his flashes of the future will come in handy in figuring out what MIB has planned. I'm not sure if the writers thought they would get more of an OOOOOO! impact by ending the show with desmond being the package but to me it ended in a big thump. They've done that a few times this season end an episode with a tame/lame cliffhanger.

#250. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 1, 2010 10:04 AM

@178 -- I have been kicking around the idea of "soul and body" myself over the last couple of weeks especially looking at mirrors and water. After some research, I found the following:

There is the belief that the soul projects out of the body and into mirrors in the form of reflection. [When looking in mirros, are the characters seeing some part of their sould?]

The soul was believed to be attracted to water, since it was seen to spring into any body of standing water near at hand.

The ancient Greeks believed that water spirits, lurking in reflective pools, lakes, and streams, would drag the unwary reflected soul underwater, leaving the now-soulless person to die.

The various symbolic meanings of the mirror highlight: (1) purity of the soul, (2) self-knowledge and moral integrity, as well as (3) its ability to reflect reality.

In regard to Sayid and the "healing pool" in the temple, I am wondering if the pool somehow also restored the soul. However, in Sayid's case and perhaps the water had turned colors, his soul was removed and he is now "empty" unable to feel any emotions.

And I'm wondering if the fight for good and evil is a fight over the soul of the person (i.e., we are all born inherently good and the choices we make dictate whether we take a "good" or "bad" path). Jacob seems to believe man will somehow made the "right" or "good" choices while the MIB thinks that all people are capable of being manipulated to turn to the "bad" or "corruptible."

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I'm still mulling over the concept of the soul and the body.

#251. Posted by: srharmon at April 1, 2010 10:11 AM

Many comments above about what we hope for or fear about the ending reminded me of that fantastic movie from what, the 60's?, "Oh Lucky Man" It was one of Malcolm McDowell's first movies and after a very long movie with bizarre adventures (and cast members playing multiple roles to give the entire thing a deja vu feeling) it ends up with a try out for the film we have just been watching followed by a cast party with dancing and balloons, featuring all the people we have been watching but with our hapless hero still just as confused but accepting it. They wouldn't dare do something like that!

#252. Posted by: August Paul at April 1, 2010 10:31 AM

#180. Posted by Cecil Rose:
"Here's what Lostpedia transcripts reports:

Keamy says, "I'm going to strap you in here, just in case you figure out what's about to happen to you... can't have you freaking out."

#182. Posted by: HurleysTheONE:
"Transcripts clear that up! But what i think he actually said was "...about to happen to ya-I....can't have you freaking out" That "I" he threw in there did make it sound like he said Island."

So glad I can sleep tonight. But,gosh darn it, Kevin Durand's improvs are OUT OF CONTROL.

#253. Posted by: glostover at April 1, 2010 10:34 AM

Am I remembering wrong, or has *every* *single* *episode* this season introduced a dunh... dunh... dunh... surprise new character in the final minutes?

OK, maybe Isabella doesn't count. But seems like the cliffhanger structure is cookie cutter.

#254. Posted by: LockeBox at April 1, 2010 10:35 AM

#214 So I guess his soul is "lost" (ahem) until FLocke or someone gives him direction. And whether good or bad, he will follow it.

I agree with this that he is "lost" and simply waiting for someone to give him direction. Watching season 1 again and i noticed something that confirmed this in my mind. In the episode where Ethan takes Claire and Charlie, Charlie is hanged and seemingly dead. Jack miraculously saves him. But if you watch the next couple episodes Charlie is just sitting around on a log with a glazed "Sayid like look" on his face. He doesnt say anything or do anything, he is just "lost"! That is until Rose confronts him and talks to him and gives him a direction, something to do. After that Charlie is as nice a guy as there is on the island and is/was one of my favorite characters.

#255. Posted by: addicted at April 1, 2010 10:40 AM

@254 Mac said it best that there is a huge Soap Opera undertone to a lot of these storylines. It seems that the writers should have made lost 6 seasons and not stretch it to 6 like they did.

#256. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 1, 2010 10:40 AM

#154. Posted by: vintage

ok, that's a good point for leaking.

#218. Posted by: FenwayBen
We have a Lost discussion board at work,

WOW! you work at a way cool place. Hardly anyone I know even recognizes Lost as a TV program.

#220. Posted by: shikotee
And spring is in the air.....
and it smells DEE licious! I will have trouble getting anything done with an open window nearby today.

#228. Posted by: Mizzed

but I personally have never felt misled or betrayed by the writing. Disapointed? Occasionally. Engaged? Always. Manipulated? Nope.

I'll give them til the end to decide if I am satisfied or not. I won't say now. Maybe the end will be fantastic and I will say WOW! That was really Great!

But..... maybe I need to know where the numbers came from in the first place. The numbers are a very consuming problem for me. They touch so many things in this show. Did Jacob find them? create them? Where did he get them? OTOH, If the show does not tell me this, I can search back and decide for myself , with the info from the show where "I" think they came from. Others may not agree with me, but maybe this would be better than TPTB telling me something I would scoff at.

If this number thing is not resolved, I can return to my "Jacob and MIB travel through time from a future of a dying earth caused by man. They are to determine if Man is worthy of being saved, etc" theory that I like a lot. And no one can say I am wrong. They can argue my facts (or lack of them) But I could be right!

#229. Posted by: Plain Simple
Wouldn't you feel cheated.

Yes I would. Let's hope we don't go there.


#234. Posted by: April Fool's Dude

AH HAH HAH!

#241. Posted by: ealgumby

I don't care if they changed their minds along the way. I believed them at the time and tried to make the show make sense in their parameters. And it was FUN! I have enjoyed this show soooo much that I forgive them as long as the end is not Aliens or a particular God or a dream, etc. :(

Maybe there will be a DVD EXTRA - The Secrets of Lost! Where the writers will explain what they thought along the way.
Where the various loose ends were supposed to go but had to be dropped for whatever reason. I would watch that.

#257. Posted by: berkyo at April 1, 2010 10:42 AM

@253. glostover

That solves that. Oh, well. :)

#258. Posted by: Christin at April 1, 2010 10:45 AM

@Welh (#247)
"1. If Widmore thinks Desmond is the key to stopping or containing MIB, there is no evidence of any skill set Dez had on the island except a) punching numbers in a keyboard, and b) running through the jungle."

I'm not surprised at all. It's consistent with my speculations from episode #109 (Sundown).

Regardless of the underlying main premise of Lost, which hasn't been revealed yet, Desmond is definitely different:

- he is the only "character" who got the vaccine against "infection" (maybe "infection" from MIB and/or Jacob)
- he is able to switch between "timelines"
- he is not on the "list"
- he is not affected by the "rules" (Mrs. Hawking told him)

It remains to be seen if it's all in software ;)

#259. Posted by: Margot at April 1, 2010 11:06 AM

@254, Good question, let's see. We had Desmond this week and if you count Isabella, then her last time. We've had an episode where Claire popped up in ---I think--- What Kate Does, Widmore arrived in his sub in Dr. Linus, was it, who else? Dogen and his Temple Others were early on LAX, no? Sundown didn't end with a surprise character. How did we end Recon? Not with a new character did we?

@231, Christina: "If smokey can't leave the island, who/what took over Christian Shepards body when he ventured off the island???"

Have a look at my long post #294 in the "Recon" comments where I try to make some sense of that. I'm not sure if I succeeded, but boy did I try. ;)


@236, FenwayBen: "Just MHO, but I don't need to see old storylines reopened that have been closed for years even with dangling threads."

Now that's one of the differences between `just another TV show' and `a good story'. If TPTB are aiming for the latter, then I think the major story lines that have been an integral part of the show for years, sometimes in the background, sometimes as focus of the plot, should have some kind of satisfying payoff. I'm not saying every question should be answered, even if it were possible (which it is not, due to the realities of TV making, as ealgumby pointed out), but you can't make this fertility issue a major recurring plot point for at least half of your story and then not have it lead to some kind of satisfying conclusion in the end, imo.

You're saying, who's still interested in this? Perhaps none of the characters, but if the reason for the fertility problems (to stick with this example) are tied in to the greater story of Jacob and MIB which I suspect they are, that shouldn't be an obstacle to addressing it in some way. But what's even more important is that the viewers care. You mentioned that you don't need to see old story lines reopened. See, that's from the POV of watching a TV show. Those story lines are three years old, what do I care. But what about those people five years from now who will discover the show on dvd (or blueray or ...) and watch it all over the span of say a few months? Those people will experience the show as a single story, not a TV show spread over six years. They will notice major story lines being dropped, they will presumably care.

If Lost's TPTB are just interested in having a highly hyped TV show then they are justified in not caring (if in fact, they don't care; I don't know, they might, I'd even go so far as to say they probably do), but if they are interested in leaving us with a good story after the show ends that is worth revisiting from time to time, then they better care. I've always had the impression that the latter was the case, but something about this season has me started worrying (within the confines of my capacity to worry about a TV show; I'm not loosing any sleep over it, nor any waking time, but for the sake of a discussion like this, let's call it "worrying"). I'm not sure what it is, and my `worries' might be proven completely unnecessary by season's end. We'll see. Just my two cents.

#260. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 11:08 AM

@23, Cecil, re ALT happening before Oceanic 815: Interesting thought. It mirrors (gasp!) my early hypothesis that it will happen after the end of the series, so after Oceanic 815 (see comment #352 at "The Substitute"). I don't think my idea holds water anymore (if it ever did in the first place), but it's interesting that we both try to make sense of it without introduce whole new timelines and realities.

#261. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 11:13 AM

@259/ Margot:

Desmond was not the only character who got the vaccine. Claire and Aaron were injected by Ethan. It is also assumed that the vaccine was in the supply drops (with the label containing the Numbers), the Dharma people, including Ben, Ethan, Changs, were given the vaccine at some point.

We still do not know what truly is the Sickness that Rousseau or Kelvin referred to; Dogen called it a "darkness" which has infected both Claire and Sayid.

#262. Posted by: welh at April 1, 2010 11:20 AM

@231/260 My theory is that Jacob (or a representative of Jacob) has used bodies (or visions) of people who have died on the island to appear to others off island and perhaps on island as well.

Off island:
Charlie appears to Hurley
Christian appears to Jack
Claire appears to Kate (telling her not to bring Aaron back to the island)
Ana Lucia to Hurley ("You've got a lot of work to do")

On island:
Christian to Michael ("you can go now")
Walt to Locke ("you have work to do")

Again, just a theory.

#263. Posted by: srharmon at April 1, 2010 11:36 AM

@180 Cecil Rose re: Keamy's dialogue

When I read the transcript, it seems to be incomplete like it has not been finished. The last line is the following:

HURLEY: I don't think she wants to come.

This is before the Keamy/Jin scene. Am I missing something?

#264. Posted by: dbwebdude at April 1, 2010 11:41 AM

@263, srharmon: I would add "Isabella to Hurley" to the On Island list.

#265. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 11:42 AM

@263/srharmon - "people who have died on the island"

Except Christian did not die on the island.

Related question (maybe) ...

@247/welh - "Question: did we really see Jack with Sun or someone else in Jack's form?"

Has MIB/Smokey (assuming they are one and the same of course, and also assuming Jacob isn't popping up in the guise of other people as well) ever appeared as anyone who isn't dead?

I do not ever recall this happening. Why not? Would seem pretty useful ...

#266. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 12:05 PM

@260/Plain Simple - "within the confines of my capacity to worry about a TV show; I'm not loosing any sleep over it, nor any waking time, but for the sake of a discussion like this, let's call it 'worrying'"

Don't you just love feeling the need to preemptively provide evidence of *not* being a psycho? Wouldn't want anyone here to WORRY about that, now would we? ;)

#267. Posted by: ealgumby at April 1, 2010 12:12 PM

I'm sorry David but I can't keep up. I'm on my lunch break and am only up to 200 and need to ask this.

#200. Posted by: undauntid
"I am assuming that once Flocke is on Hydra, he can covert to Smokey again; it's Smokey, not Flocke, for whom water is a problem. Is that why sudden downpours have been important on LOST? "

Locke has always been able to predict the rain. There was an episode this season when it started raining on Flocke. I'm sorry I don't have the time to research for the episode but - wait for it - did anyone notice the expression on Flocke's face? I did. It was very noticeable. It was like "where did this come from?"

Could it be possible that the rain was a form of containment for the smoke monster? It put it back in it's hole?

Here it comes - Did anyone notice the expression on Flocke's face when it started raining

#268. Posted by: pebspostal at April 1, 2010 12:15 PM

ealgumby@267: Indeed, we don't. ;)

@268, pebspostal: Some weeks ago I was reading Mac's Season 1 reviews and a couple of times he noted how "bad things" always seemed to be preluded by sudden rainfall. A cheap trick to play on the viewers emotions and expectations, or is there more to it?

#269. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 12:46 PM

When did it start to rain at The Temple, was it during or directly after the massacre? That is, does it appear that the rain ended Smokey's rampage? All I can remember is that it rained towards the end and Flocke was standing in the rain.

#270. Posted by: undauntid at April 1, 2010 12:58 PM

I always thought of MIB as Jacob's doppleganger, more-or-less equivalent physically and metaphysically - Jacob's evil twin. I must be way off on this one, since clearly Jacob can come and go from the island whilst MIB is trapped and can only leave under very special conditions. Hmm.

#271. Posted by: bearandbu at April 1, 2010 1:00 PM

Haven't read anything yet.....

Without a doubt, the best line in the history of the show is now "Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I don't think Hugo can track anything." -- Miles.

This unfortunately for me surpasses my previous favorite line of "Red...Neck...Man" by Hurley to Sawyer, but I'm ok with that. These were the only two moments when I actually LOL'd in the show's history....and I love to laugh!!

Mac said: Charles Widmore says that if Flocke successfully leaves the island, "everyone we know and love would simply cease to be."

What if he doesn't mean cease to be as in they all die....but rather he means that (as you eluded to in Sun's multiverse meshing and the potential Juliet's multiverse meshing) the people will cease to be as we know them currently, because their coexistence will combine creating a new person which is quite unpredictable. All of this looking in the mirror stuff would start to make a lot more sense if that's where they're headed.

WOW...I actually posted something because my brain was jolted for the first time in a while. Ya Mac, I've been trying not to bitch for the last few episodes...it's been hard. But I understand why I haven't been motivated....it's because the show always provided so many questions that we all could speculate 1,000 different ways as to what potentially could come down the road. But since they're giving us 'answers' (ya right), there can't be the same level of wonder. I'm still along for the ride.....

Sorry if this has been covered....peace c ya later!!

#272. Posted by: Red...Neck...Man at April 1, 2010 1:02 PM

@266 Correct -- Christian didn't die on the island, but his dead body was on the island. And I believe that Christian's body has been used by MIB on the island to serve his manipulations just as Locke's is being used now.

#273. Posted by: srharmon at April 1, 2010 1:20 PM

Ok, *finally* got through all of the posts from *last* week's episode. I see as I write this that I now have 273 posts to go through just to catch up for this week. I will *never* catch up at this point...

A quick response to last week's...umm..spirited conversation regarding ealgumby's post...we need some dissent around here now and then. This final season is rightfully a love-fest for most of us but some of us need to pipe up once in a while and point out the emperor has no clothes, cynicism and anger be damned. Ealgumby, good to hear your frustration, maybe a little less condescending to the rest of us who have suspended out disbelief but I'm sure you've already heard that from the rest of the gang. Keep up the vitriol!

Davidrh, I almost snorted my drink up my nose when you mentioned you were afraid to AAAAAAAAAUUUUGHHHH... Definitely miss the ability to interact with everyone because I refuse to post anything without having read everyone else's posts first.

I haven't even managed to *watch* the latest episode (I know, blasphemy), but I'm hoping perhaps tonight I'll be able to do so. I may yet catch up (doubt it, but miracles do happen) and converse, or I may continue to post completely outdated responses to things I've just recently read! ;)

Speaking of which, happy birthday to Cecil! Belated wishes for your 64th!

Mac, I'm sure your review was great as always. That much I can safely post without reading. ;)

Lostedit O-U-T (of my mind, I think, but that's another story...)

#274. Posted by: LostedIt at April 1, 2010 1:51 PM

#272. Red...Neck...Man: "everyone we know and love would simply cease to be." I never thought of it as meaning everyone would die; his statement is too precise to assume it meant they would die. If that is what Widmore meant, he would have said it and it would have packed quite a wallop "Everyone we know and love will die." If you are recruiting people to help prevent something from happening, it seems telling them that our loved ones will die if we don't take action to prevent it would be a major step in enlisting their cooperation.

Widmore is saying something else entirely. He doesn't say "we" will cease to be; he says "everyone we know and love" will cease to be.

So what does that tell us? I'll be damned if I know!


With regard to our discussions here changing during this final season: I can only speak for myself...My problem is that I don't have the wiggle room to hypothesize as I once did. There are still lots of questions, but we've had enough answers that I find myself starting out with an idea and then giving it up because something we've discovered lately eliminates it as a possibility.

PS: I love this show. The ending will be satisfying or not satisfying, but as I've said before, as long as it doesn't end as The Sopranos or (worse yet) Deadwood ended, then it's all good.

#275. Posted by: undauntid at April 1, 2010 2:22 PM

Part of problem that this season may seem flat to some viewers is that there is no clearly defined purpose or goal for our main characters.

The general goal in Season 1 was to survive and find a way off the island to get back to their off-island lives. The next seasons brought us stories of personal temptation and personal redemption. The O6 had some heroic purpose of getting back to the island to save their friends, but at the same time had no focus or clue on what was happening to them, or how they could get off the island once they returned to it. The blind leading the blind.

Now, in Season 6, there is no sense of total purpose. In many respects, once the Losties returned to the island, they have dumb downed any motivation to leave to that of being followers in an unknown game of tag between Jacob and MIB. Only Sawyer has kept his eye on the prize (freedom by stealing the sub). The rest have been, well mostly at rest: they are not forcing any action, and have mixed reactions to events occurring on the island. The main characters have no idea what their roles are in the island melodrama.

#276. Posted by: welh at April 1, 2010 2:47 PM

OMG....


Naturally, this is an April 1st prank, but I would totally buy this Lost related product.

Click my name, and dream....

And make sure you watch the video!

#277. Posted by: shikotee at April 1, 2010 2:48 PM

@229 Plain Simple I like the arguments and ruminations you present here and find myself nodding yes a lot as I read them.

#278. Posted by: August Paul at April 1, 2010 4:02 PM

@#264. Posted by: dbwebdude
Re AKTKSSATI

When I read the transcript, it seems to be incomplete like it has not been finished. The last line is the following:

HURLEY: I don't think she wants to come.

This is before the Keamy/Jin scene. Am I missing something?

Argh frustrating! The second half of the script seems to be missing!

#279. Posted by: glostover at April 1, 2010 4:05 PM

Most of my friends do not watch LOST. Many have not even heard of it and if I lose control of myself and expand on what they have been missing and they express an interesting in perhaps watching it, I discourage them. You won't like it, I say, because too much as transpired for you to appreciate what is going on. I am hoping for an ending that puts this show way out of the crowd on TV series of the past. It has not been weird, just to be weird. It has had mythic proportions and has dealt with fundamental notions of good and evil, of possibilities not realized, of redemption. With a fixed audience who will see the program through to the end, this is an opportunity for those writers, many of whom may have had to read in the course of their education, Homer or Shakespeare, or the Bible, or the philosophers whose names have been borrowed. This is an opportunity that will not come along again in commercial TV and may not in something like HBO or Showtime. It is an opportunity to create something really great that will make us so pleased to have stuck with for so long, often with the criticism of friends and family. It is futile at this point to plead to TPTB to step up to the place, as by now the final shooting of the final episode may be done. We can only hope now...

#280. Posted by: August Paul at April 1, 2010 4:12 PM

@76, welh: "Now, in Season 6, there is no sense of total purpose. [...] The main characters have no idea what their roles are in the island melodrama."

Exactly, welh put. To some extend they've always been the objects rather than the subjects of the action, but this season it seems to be extreme. Sawyer appears to be an exception, Hurley to some degree, even if it is just following mind!Jacob's orders. This episode Jin and Sun tried to assert themselves, but then promptly were either kidnapped or ran into a tree.

@278, August Paul: Now and again I try to make sense. :)

#281. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 1, 2010 4:49 PM

#277. Posted by: shikotee

Pretty funny site! I am now a subscriber to something or other.

#282. Posted by: berkyo at April 1, 2010 5:27 PM

I forgot to to tell Shikotee that Ii ordered the wireless extension cords. I've been looking for them for some time now.

#283. Posted by: berlyo at April 1, 2010 5:28 PM

I think I have found the main reason for the major elements of the show we obsessed on for the past five seasons:

Minor character plane crash survivors: red shirts.

Tailies: red shirts.

Dharma: red shirts.

The Others: drones to red shirts.

Freighter crew: red shirts.

Unless otherwise proven, the Island appears to be a red shirt factory.

#284. Posted by: welh at April 1, 2010 5:49 PM

Read no further if you're someone who doesn't appreciate something off the topic of the current episode.

After Recon, some of us were saying we'd love to see a buddy cop show with Sawyer and Miles. Someone suggested it could be Hawaii Five-O.
Just read in EW that a new Hawaii Five-O is indeed in the works for CBS for the fall starring Alex O'Loughlin and...Daniel Dae Kim!
We weren't too far off!

Back to our regularly scheduled "serious" discussion.

#285. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 1, 2010 6:07 PM

The folks over at Lostpedia can't figure out what Keamy said either. At one point yesterday in the episode recap, it read, "I'm going to strap you in here, just in case you figure out what's about to happen to (mutters something inaudible)....can't have you freaking out."

Now it's back to "....just in case you figure out what's about to happen to the Island."

Mystery unsolved. Lostpedia transcript still appears to be incomplete.

On another note, you have to admire Jacob's layered security system for keeping MIB on the island. If Richard and Ilana fail, there's Widmore. If Widmore fails, there's Jack. Plus a bunch of random wildcards including Sawyer and the Kwons and perhaps Desmond, if you credit Jacob with bringing each of them to the island.

#286. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 1, 2010 6:32 PM

So, I was look Amazon for stuff to read on my Kindle and came across this...interesting.

The Gospel According to Lost
by Chris Seay

Product Description

Lost is NOT just a television show. It has become larger than that-a massive story filled with mystery that has garnered over twenty million participants. Some might call them viewers, but one does not just watch Lost, one participates in it. It demands that you dialogue with the story, seeking theories and comparing yourself to characters. Lost breaks all the formulas for television, and in doing so has drawn together millions of people on a shared journey that explores life, faith, history, science, philosophy, hope, and the basic questions of what it means to be human. It is the seemingly infinite ideas, philosophies, and biblical metaphors that make this story so engaging.


The focus on faith and truth is never more clearly explained than in the words of John Locke as he questions Jack Shepherd asking "Why do you find it so hard to believe?" Jack responds quickly "Why do you find it so easy?" But Locke declares "It's never been easy." This tension between Faith and Reason drives every episode and story line. Locke summed this up as he explained to Jack "That's why you and I don't see eye‐to‐eye sometimes, because you're a man of science…Me, well, I'm a man of faith."

Chapter Topics

Faith and Reason - The war within?

Guilt -The single common denominator that binds everyone on the island

Fate - Do we choose our path, or does fate happen to us?

Quantum Spirituality - What if everything and everyone is connected?

Dharma - Is there any truth to be found in Institutional Religion?

Island Life - If we are made for the garden is it the consumer world that is killing us?

Salvation - Will it ever come, and will we recognize it when it does?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

O.K., fess up, which one of you is Chris Seay? Crispy Seaplanes maybe? ;-)

I've really enjoyed the discussions here today! You guys are awesome!

#287. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 1, 2010 7:02 PM

***SORRY-Random and delayed a week***

In the Black Rock, MIB touched Richard on one shoulder. On the beach, Jacob touched his other shoulder. Like a little angel and devil on opposite shoulders.

Richard-o sounded very Jack-o with his I can fix this attitude regarding his wife.

#288. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at April 1, 2010 7:19 PM

@238 ealgumby: one throw-away three-letter word buried in its midst.
Does it have an 'E'?

Damn!

@261 Plain Simple: I don't think my idea holds water anymore
If it doesn't hold water...does it hold Smokey?

@263 srharmon: Jacob (or a representative of Jacob)
If Jacob has representation...I bet he's got Scott Boras as his agent

I believe that in much the same way TPTB revisited Michael Emerson's role -- expanding it into the one of loveable, bug-eyed splendor it has become -- the "specialness" of Walt was originally going to have more of an impact, yet the concerns over the actor's growth caused the writers/producers to revisit that as well and ultimately chose to replace WAAAALT!'s "specialness" with Desmond's.

BTW, has anyone created a list of "Best lines" from the show?
Frank and Miles have some pretty good ones.

Frank: Weirdest damn funeral I've ever been at. (after Ben says Locke was a better man than I; I should know since I murdered him.)

#289. Posted by: Gumbo at April 1, 2010 7:28 PM

#234 april fools
Did ABC REALLY announce a surprise season 7? Are you April Foolin' me? If it's real, where did you see this. If it's not real, please pop my bubble!

#290. Posted by: Christina at April 1, 2010 8:03 PM

In many ways I work in the dorkiest place on Earth. Being a huge dork myself, I love it there. ;)

#291. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 1, 2010 8:58 PM

#287. Posted by: lost2theworld


I am an aspiring writer but in this case--"not it!" :)

#292. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 1, 2010 9:21 PM

Can someone remind me - does island Jack have a son in the real world, or is the son only in the alt-reality? Would make sense, seeing as the other alt-reality characters are not quite the same gang that took off from Sydney in season 1 (i.e. Sawyer is a cop, Hurley's lucky, Shanon isn't even around, thankfully). If so, then the son in alt-reality is a device to allow the doctor to resolve his father-son issues. How will this occur on-island? As far as I'm concerned, Christian was always smokey, so there's no other manifestation of him that's going to pop up.

And another question... any inkling that Walt might come back into the picture? My preference is no, I actually don't need ALL the questions answered.

Hey, I'm easy. I'll be happy if it all ends with Rose, Bernard, and Hurley rolling in to the showdown in a dharma v-dub, guns a 'blazin'!

#293. Posted by: goteamvincent at April 1, 2010 10:58 PM

okay... so if Jacob didn't give Richard his wife or help in the after life, as not to mess with free will, then how come he promised Doju (the Asian guy that Sayid killed in the Temple.. .forget his name) that if he came back he would give back his son's life... I thought he couldn't do that?

#294. Posted by: ace at April 1, 2010 11:23 PM

From the transcript - MS. Hawking to Desmond: You may not like your path, Desmond, but pushing that button is the only truly great thing that you will ever do."

What else can we read into this? Did she really mean the 108 button or another button?

What year are we in on the island? Is Desmond married to Penny yet?

#295. Posted by: pebspostal at April 1, 2010 11:47 PM

re: Jack having a son in the alt-time.

Since we have seen that the alt-time "mirrors" island-time, could it be that Jack has a son on the island...WAIT, don't scroll down yet. Remember when he had "relations" with Kate the night before boarding the Ajira flight? Kate could be prego with Jack's son on the island. Now you can scroll down because I've just realized that this neither adds or takes away from the story and in no way would it answer any questions regardless. but it would be cool!

#296. Posted by: Skipper at April 2, 2010 2:41 AM

#290. Posted by: Christina re: #234 april fools

Sorry, Christina, no season 7 -- I was just funning.

And thanks everyone else for the recent therapy sessions. Maybe my Lost nightmares will finally end -- you know, the one where Dr. Linus and a 7-foot tall Walt are co-teaching a seminar called Adam and Eve: Why Women Can't Get Pregnant on the Island and Other Unsolved Mysteries.

#297. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 2, 2010 8:31 AM

Maybe I am way behind on this, but I was talking to a friend about LOST yesterday and she was wondering if Widmore is on "Jacobs side". It made me think that Jacob is only the current protector of the island/keeper of smokey. He may have had a predecessor. Maybe he's not that special after all. At some point he was a candidate just as our losties are now. I feel like I've always assumed it was Jacob vs MIB, but probably not the case as smokey precedes Jacob.

#298. Posted by: HurleysTheONE at April 2, 2010 10:14 AM

@243 davidrh said:

>Whoops! It appears I posted with my alias.

We just thought that post came from the Human Resources division of David, Inc.

#299. Posted by: Cecil at April 2, 2010 10:36 AM

#227. hurling: undauntid + Alaïs = Dauntless?

Only if we get to keep the umlaut! ; > ; > ; >

What are you doing in the Land Down Under? Is it an extended vacation?

#300. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 2, 2010 10:46 AM

@248 ALEX ANGEL declared:

>Keamy didn't say a thing about any Island. When I watched the show online it did sound like he say Island, but then when I watched it at home on my $5000 system it was clear as day that he doesn't say island. He just says I *pause* can't

On my $5 secondhand from a hotel chain's surplus TV, that's the same thing I heard, too.

#301. Posted by: Cecil at April 2, 2010 10:47 AM

Rambling...........
#23. Cecil Rose "You may be on to something here. What if all the alt-verse stuff happens BEFORE the 815 we first encountered, and this is how Patchy lost his eye? Can we refute this possibility?"

I've been wondering since the first time we saw the alt-verse if our Lostees were being assembled by Providence for another go around to set things right. Flight 815 couldn't crash on the island because the island is under water. So, that appears to be a problem, but it might be my own limited vision...nothing says that whatever needs to be set right can't be done with the island underwater. It would help if I had some idea of what it is they are supposed to accomplish.

Wouldn't it be something if it's all a Rube Goldberg contraption...loop de loops, spins, back tracks,switches, hops skips, jumps....to do something as simple as crack an egg.

Why these people at this time? It appears MIB & Jacob have been on that island for a very long time...what brought things to a head? What was the game changer?

What triggered That Which Must Be Neutralized (twmbn)? The arrival of the bomb on the island? The arrival of the Dharma Initiative?

Obviously that button wasn't always there to be pushed every 108 minutes. Did we ever see the plane that dropped the bomb? Why didn't it explode on impact?

One of the things I notice with the names on the lighthouse compass: There's no Bubba HoTep sort of names on it. There are no "Andrew the Tall"s. A couple of Asian names, but other wise western names mostly. When were those names put on that compass?

What was the name/# Jacob directed Jack to dial to in the lighthouse? I wonder if that is Charles Widmore's right hand geo-physicist?

#302. Posted by: undauntid at April 2, 2010 10:52 AM

@277 shikotee reported:

>OMG....

>Naturally, this is an April 1st prank, but I would totally buy this Lost related product.

But.... you can leave them your email address to be told if the product is ever actually available - if enough of us register, I'll bet someone will make one.

I totally want the Dharma Initiative Jumpsuit Jammies, too.

#303. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 2, 2010 11:11 AM

@283 berlyo posted.

Are you. Perchance, related to berkyo?

#304. Posted by: Cecil at April 2, 2010 11:15 AM

@283 berlyo posted.

Are you. Perchance, related to berkyo?

#305. Posted by: Cecil at April 2, 2010 11:16 AM

@291 FenwayBen tantalized:

>In many ways I work in the dorkiest place on Earth. Being a huge dork myself, I love it there. ;)

The UN? Disney Studios? MIT?

#306. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 2, 2010 11:23 AM

How does Hawking know if the O6 did not return to the island, "god help us all?"
How does Widmore know that if he does not stop Flocke, everyone would cease to exist?

If there was a good reason (to save humanity from destruction from "X") for the main characters to be on that island, then why doesn't somebody tell them that? Why not tell the people you need what is "X?" Wouldn't that be motivation enough for Jack the fixer to try to save the world? Or Sawyer's self preservation skills try to save the world to save himself?

Substance and clarity and not further on- and off-island manipulations is what we need now. Without knowing "X," we don't know why.

#307. Posted by: welh at April 2, 2010 12:02 PM

@287, lost2theworld, re "The Gospel According to Lost"

Big Red This-Is-Only-Meant-To-Empty-Your-Wallet Flag: "Quantum Spirituality"


@289, Gumbo, "If it doesn't hold water...does it hold Smokey?"

If my silly hypothesis at comment #136 holds true, then it does. If MIB is us, the viewers, and our ideas about the show are the things that keep bringing us back to the Island and moreover, give the Island a raison d'etre, then yes, my idea, just like all of yours, is holding Smokey trapped. And since Smokey=MIB=Us according to this hypothesis, that would mean that both MIB and we are trapped by our own ideas about and interest in the Island. Very fitting for MIB in the Evil is self-defeating mythological sense (see my comment #316 in the Dr. Linus blog). And very fitting for us, as Lost truly is an addiction story that invites the viewers to participate.

@294, ace: "okay... so if Jacob didn't give Richard his wife or help in the after life, as not to mess with free will, then how come he promised Doju (the Asian guy that Sayid killed in the Temple.. .forget his name) that if he came back he would give back his son's life... I thought he couldn't do that?

Iirc Dogen's story was rather vague on whether his son died or `only' got severely wounded (with permanent disability as a result).


@295, pebspostal: "What else can we read into this? Did she really mean the 108 button or another button?"

Perhaps she was trying to push his buttons, like Flocke did with Claire.

"What year are we in on the island? Is Desmond married to Penny yet?"

The year is 2007 (or possibly 2008) unless the Ajirans foomed without them or us realizing it. In other words, we have not seen anything that happens after the current Island scenes, apart from the outrigger scene during one of the Foomies' FOOMS --- unless it turns out that ALT world is somehow in the Island world's future.

@296, Skipper: "Now you can scroll down because I've just realized that this neither adds or takes away from the story and in no way would it answer any questions regardless."

I beg to differ: It does add to the story. It would give us one more candidate for MIB's identity. A couple of episodes ago he said he had a crazy mother and everyone was wondering if the mother, and hence MIB as well, was someone we had seen before. What if Kate is the crazy mother and MIB is Jack's son? And if that's the case, how should we interpret the fact that MIB basically just gave Claire carte blanche to whack his mother after he gets on the plane? Will she give birth on the plane? That seems too early. Does MIB have suicidal thoughts? Is that his way to get out, by killing his mother before she gives birth to him? But what about Whatever Happened Happened? It might tie in to Christian taking Claire away from Aaron as well, though I can't clearly formulate how or why. If the Christian we've seen on the Island really is MIB or at least working for MIB as I previously proffered (post #294 in the "Recon" comment), then he might suspect that Aaron is Jacob (his stepbrother, raised by Kate, MIB's biological mother) and he might want to take away and drive crazy Jacob's mom in spite from his own situation. Or Christian only knows that MIB is his grandson and, since Jack doesn't have a kid yet, he suspects Aaron of being MIB. In this case, if MIB has suicidal tendencies as contemplated above, then perhaps Christian was leaving Aaron to die, but not being able to kill his own grandson directly (either Christian really is Christian, or if he is MIB he might have taken on some of Christian's traits, as Flocke seems to be getting Lockier all the time ----- Tangential Wild Speculation Alert: What if Flocke reverts back to Locke completely after some time, then we would have the resurrection Doc Jensen at EW seems to be looking for with his whole Season 6 = The Easter Weekend hypothesis)?

Or perhaps I have this completely wrong and David turns out to be Jacob and Aaron MIB, in which case all the suicidal tendencies alluded to above just turn out to be quite murderous intentions indeed. Erase Jacob from history, leading to ALT ---i.e. Jacob's touch-less--- world?

Thanks Skipper for leading in this ramble.


@302, undauntid: "Did we ever see the plane that dropped the bomb? Why didn't it explode on impact?"

I don't think that when the military does atomic tests they drop a bomb by airplane. Surely do they something that's more controlled?


@307, welh: "How does Widmore know that if he does not stop Flocke, everyone would cease to exist?"

According to Widmore himself via "myths, ghost stories, and noises in the jungle" (paraphrased). Seems like awfully shaky grounds to built this conclusion on.

"If there was a good reason (to save humanity from destruction from "X") for the main characters to be on that island, then why doesn't somebody tell them that?"

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? In The Lighthouse Jacob told Hurley that Jack had to figure out by himself what to do. But why? Who knows? (Apparently we don't.)

#308. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 2, 2010 12:17 PM

Cecil @301 - LOL Just about choked on my coffee!

#309. Posted by: lostncyberspace at April 2, 2010 12:41 PM

@308/ Plain Simple: they have to figure it out themselves. . . .

Our Candidates for greatness have rarely tried to figure things out (in fact, most have been content at running away from their problems rather than solving them).

So in the big picture, our Candidates need to make the connection that MIB is a great evil spirit, then on their own figure out how to deal with it (destroy or contain it)? Sounds like it is outside their collective SAT scores.

So how does one stop an evil spirit? Some theologists believe that evil spirits cannot act directly upon a person; they can only manipulate you to do something of your own accord (serpent in the garden of Eden). The battle between good and evil is fought in one's own mind. I don't like the idea of a computer graphic light bulb going off over the head of a Candidate, then he or she closes his or her eyes, and wishes Smokey/MIB away (mind over matter).

#310. Posted by: welh at April 2, 2010 1:02 PM

#307. welh: precisely so!

What is the point of withholding "X" ?

Is it that motive is as important, perhaps even more important than action?

I think most people would forfeit their lives in order to save all humanity. But not many people would forfeit their lives to save the stranger next to them. Is that why they are withholding "X"? To separate the chaff from the grain? Are they trying to determine whose motive is pure?

Sawyer jumped from the helicopter for the safety of his fellow passengers. Kate put her own well being in jeopardy when she went back to help Claire. Charlie sacrificed his life for others, Desmond turned that key thinking he would die in the process.

#308 Plain Simple: Earlier when I wondered if MIB might be suicidal, I wasn't thinking in of terms of his doing it to prevent or accomplish this or that, I was thinking in terms of his killing himself and the hell with anyone else who might perish as a result. Supreme selfishness.

Re: Dropping hydrogen bombs: I'm guessing that, when testing a hydrogen bomb, it is more controlled to do it from as far away as possible...delivery by air seems pretty controlled. Drop, high tail it out before it detonates.

#311. Posted by: undauntid at April 2, 2010 1:48 PM

#294 / 308 -- Dogen said:

And then, in the hospital, a man came to me. A man I had never met. And he told me that he could save my son's life, but I would have to come here... to this island... where I would have a new job. And I could never see my boy again.

#312. Posted by: srharmon at April 2, 2010 1:52 PM

@310, welh: "Our Candidates for greatness have rarely tried to figure things out (in fact, most have been content at running away from their problems rather than solving them)."

I'm not agreeing with Jacob, just saying what he seems to think and thus what his justification might be for not telling the Losties anything. As I've alluded to before, the only reasonable people left on the Island seem to be Sun, Jin, and Sawyer (perhaps add Frank and Miles, since they just let others duke it out; and Rose, Bernard and other secondary Losties if they are still around somewhere). Sun, Jin, and Sawyer are the only ones who keep their eyes on the real goal: Find their loved ones and get off the Island, all the others are just being dragged over the Island playing a game they don't know the rules or the goals of and in which they are the pawns. At least MIB seems honest about his goals (getting of the Island), if not always about his means, but he has the downside of killing people by the dozen.

#313. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 2, 2010 1:55 PM

@ 311/undauntid & 313/Plain Simple

Is it that motive is as important, perhaps even more important than action?

One needs to know what he is facing in order to make choices on how to act. If "X" is the devil, that information would be needed to determine what to do and how to solve the problem (i.e. pray really really hard). If "X" is an alien overlord bent on destroying the earth, then you would at least plot some strategy to lock "X" down or find a weakness.

I don't like the "Let's Make A Deal" choice: do you want what's in the box or what's behind the curtain? Yes, the goofy contestant's motivation is pure greed, and the choice is freely made, but is that how Lost is supposed to end? By blind stumbling luck?

#314. Posted by: welh at April 2, 2010 2:09 PM

#310 welh "So how does one stop an evil spirit? Some theologists believe that evil spirits cannot act directly upon a person; they can only manipulate you to do something of your own accord (serpent in the garden of Eden)."

Yes. And isn't it interesting that of the candidates, MIB has Sawyer, Kate, and Sayid in his camp? Those are the three with blood on their hands. MIB is judging them on their past actions, not on the content of their hearts. He thinks he can manipulate them to do his bidding. I think MIB is mistaken. I think Sayid believes he sacrificed his very soul to protect Nadia and her children in the alt-verse. And I think he did the same thing when he "killed" Dogen and his side kick in the temple pool. Sayid is down, but he is not out.

#315. Posted by: undauntid at April 2, 2010 2:10 PM

@315/ undauntid:

A game of hand grenade dodgeball?
Sawyer, Kate, Claire and Sayid vs.
Jack, Sun, Hurley and Frank?

By Season 2, I thought knowledge was the key to the island. On the island, knowledge is power. Ben knew the secrets, so he had the power (except it could have been perceived knowledge and faux power in retrospect).

At the time, I thought only two characters gained the knowledge of their plight after the plane crash: Locke and Rose. Locke by regaining his incurable legs, and Rose being cured of her cancer could only mean one logical thing: they realized that they were dead. They had passed on to a new plane of existence. The other passengers have not gotten through that mental hurdle. Time and time again they have been told that they are dead (Naomi, Cooper and recently Richard), but they just don't believe it. Once they accept the truth of their situation, that knowledge will empower them in the after life.

#316. Posted by: welh at April 2, 2010 2:51 PM

a recent episode of HOUSE featured a young woman who was diagnosed as a psychopath,although i have heard this term many times on tv, i was never quite sure what it meant as it would almost always be used out of context,
my point is,sayid in this episode says he feels nothing,so i guess locke has turned him into a psochopath.

#317. Posted by: san at April 2, 2010 4:04 PM

#316 welh: I don't think they are most sincerely dead, but I will go along with their metaphorical deaths. In either case, same thing holds true...the island represents a new beginning.

I discount the testimony of Naomi because she also thought 815 crashed in the Sundra Trench (don't get me started on that...). Richard is superstitious; he asked for an immortal body to avoid eternal hell because a corrupt priest did not absolve him of his "sin". Cooper thought he was dead; given his nefarious life, it was logical for him to assume he woke up in hell.

No, I think this is going to have something to do with motive. Not just doing the right thing, but doing it for the right reason.

Fear/Greed vs Love. Corny, but that's where I'm thinking we're headed.

#318. Posted by: undauntid at April 2, 2010 4:28 PM

San: Sayid is not a psychopath. Psychopaths are as animated as anyone else. But they are extraordinarily manipulative and they lack empathy or remorse. They can feel, but only their own feelings, they don't have the ability to feel your feelings, so if a psychopath wants your car, they can kill you and take your car and not bat an eye about it. The best description I have heard of a psychopath or sociopath is that they are human predators.

#319. Posted by: undauntid at April 2, 2010 4:40 PM

@319-undauntid,
thank you for your definition of the word,
i understand now why the term would not apply to sayid, he is manipulated by flocke rather than being manipulative himself,
maybe the best way of putting it is that flocke stole sayids "mojo".

#320. Posted by: san at April 2, 2010 5:20 PM

At the time, I thought only two characters gained the knowledge of their plight after the plane crash: Locke and Rose. ...They had passed on to a new plane of existence. The other passengers have not gotten through that mental hurdle. ... Once they accept the truth of their situation, that knowledge will empower them in the after life.
#316. Posted by: welh

Another "welh"-put theory. I like it.

An image that keeps popping into my head - from the previous ep - is when Flocke is leading his new group, single file, through the jungle. Early in the series, two Losties (Sayid and Jin?) take cover and watch a group of Others walk by. They only see the Others from about the waist down. In both these scenes, the little boy is carrying a teddy bear. Was someone also on crutches in the earlier ep? Not sure what I'm suggesting. Maybe it's just a common theme...people blindly following a 'leader'.

Happy Easter, (you all) everybody.

#321. Posted by: lovelost at April 2, 2010 6:02 PM

#321. Posted by: lovelost at April 2, 2010 6:02 PM Happy Easter, (you all) everybody.
*******************
And
Good Friday (Fri)
World Party Day (Sat - World)
Tomb Sweeping Day (Mon - China)
National Poetry Month (Apr - US)
Spring Break (16 Apr - Pakistan)
Earth Day (22 Apr - Earth)

#322. Posted by: Tidings at April 2, 2010 9:12 PM

more ramblings... anybody have opinions.
1. How many times has Ben killed John (shot him in the pit... and he survived and then strangled him). Why is it he was only surprised the second time. Ben made some sort of comment (paraphrasing) that he's seen the island do incredible things, but never bring back the dead.
2. I think when Sayid died his 'spirit' said something to Miles.. who happened to be standing over his dead body I think Miles knows something and he's the one I trust the most... maybe he's the one being the most honest
3. How many times has Ben died? fall out of building - to which Jacob brought him back, shot in the pit and then strangled.
4. He was shot in the same place as Sayid stabbed him.
5. In one of the first episodes in the first seasons... a psychic told Claire that (paraphrasing) she was evil, her child was evil, and that she would not be raising the child... they would be apart. Is Aron the MIB
6. everyone has a child that has been a surprise, cliff hanger etc. Kate - claire, Jack - his son, Sawyer his son, sayid .. his neice and nephew, Desmond his son, Ben his daughter, Sun and Jin their daughter
7. Charlie when he came back and was missing... hanging by a tree, came back in a stunned state and after awhile (can't remember why) he came around and was good... so if you are in a veg. state, is your soul in limbo... like Sayi? I think he'll turn good.
8. Is the 'sideways' life what would have happened if Jacob hadn't interfered?
9. Jacob talking to Hurley said that Jack needs to figure it out on his own, he can't tell him, ... figure what out??
10. Claire is going to kill Kate... who is going to save Kate. She's no longer on the list... so says Flocke... is that cause she dies?
11. I predict that somehow they are all going to end up in the same room or something and somehow linked together
12. Will Desmond remember Sayid... and give him up... will Sayid try and save Desmond?

... any words my brutha ...

any comments???

#323. Posted by: ace at April 2, 2010 10:14 PM

#321 -- great thought... perhaps what Sayid and Jin were watching Flocke and his group in some weird time loop. One of the kids had a teddy bear when Flocke was leading them single file.

#324. Posted by: lostlove at April 3, 2010 12:11 AM

@40/Glen and @158/LostisFound helped get the ball rolling on Smokey and the EM map, with supporting comments from @167/welh, @214/berkyo and @220/shikotee.

We have been so deep in "Man of Faith" territory since the intro last year of Jacob and the MIB, that the introduction of the EM map may prove to be the most important point of this last episode, and a welcome return to old-style Lost storylines which operated on the balancing point between faith and science.

The various posts referenced above make a lot of sense, so let me take a stab at tying some of them together:

Smokey may be the conscious manifestation of the EM energy on the island.

Essentially, the Swan was a version of Jacob's cork analogy- as the Swan was designed to cap the energy that Dharma had released, thereby saving the world from destruction, the entire island can be viewed as one giant hatch, keeping Smokey contained and saving the world from destruction.

(as a side note, from the writers perspective, how clever would the island as hatch concept be- they could later say that the clues to "what is the island" were given as early as the first season).

Smokey cannot hurdle the Dharma sonic fence or "fly" to Hydra Island because if he loses contact with the ground and this energy source, he becomes powerless.

He could not pass through the underwater caverns to get to the barracks (until Ben pulled the plug) or escape from the island via water for the same reasons.

Apparently, the sonic fences disrupt the energy Smokey pulls from the island, again making him helpless.

While in his Flocke body he can overcome some of these obstacles, but as Locke he has the same physical limitations that the human Locke did- hence his clumsy jungle chases after Sun and the ghostly blond boy.

We saw that children could be safely born before the Incident (Ethan), so it is possible that the partial release of this energy in the Incident was the x-factor that stopped all future births on the island (the event has to be fairly recent as Richard called it a "novelty").

The implosion of the Swan may have resulted in Smokey becoming more powerful, allowing him to move from a phantom like appearance (such as Yemi and Christian) to being able to constitue himself in a full corporeal
body, such as the Christian who could carry Aaron or the current Flocke.

If Smokey escapes the island, it would have the same effect as if the button had not been pushed- the release of the island's massive electromagnetic energy would essentially "end time", killing everyone on Earth in the process.

Desmond has been exposed to this energy twice and has survived- he has developed an immunity to its effects, and has been brought to the island by Widmore to somehow control the energy on the island, containing Smokey in the process.

As for the Egyptian symbolism and the other religious motifs, Cecil already gave one of my favorite quotes from Arthur C. Clarke- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

Visitors to the island unable to explain the magical properties of the island would surely frame it in a religious context as a way of trying to achieve understanding, including the belief that it was the home of some of their Gods- leading to the construction of the Temple, the statue of Tawaret, etc.

It is a very intriguing theory, because it integrates neatly with the story arc from the entire series.

If at least some of this is true, a key question would be what was Jacob? Did he gain his abilities from the same exact energy source?

#325. Posted by: Mizzed at April 3, 2010 3:01 AM

#297. Posted by: Scooby-Dude

You got me there for a second!
You are funny.
I know what your next nightmare is....
YOU are the next canidate :)

#326. Posted by: Christina at April 3, 2010 3:44 AM

@Mizzed (#324)
"If at least some of this is true, a key question would be what was Jacob? Did he gain his abilities from the same exact energy source?"

There have been a couple of hints regarding the Aaron/MIB connection. However, I'm unable to think this through without severe nose bleeding.

MIB told Richard that Jacob stole his body. If we assume MIB didn't lie, this would have a very weird implications.

Jacob would have lived in Aaron's body for several hundred years without getting significantly older (we saw him at about the same age at the arrival of the Black Rock). Therefore, Jacob's body must have traveled back in time for several hundred years and his natural aging process must have stopped decades in the future from the current timeline since we know when Aaron was born.

MIB would also have arranged the murder of his own former body. Although Aaron's body at the age of Jacob is dead in the current timeline, young Aaron is still alive in the same timeline...

Besides all the resulting craziness around Aaron's body, we still would know almost nothing about MIB and Jacob themselves.

I hope there's a less convoluted explanation.

#327. Posted by: Margot at April 3, 2010 6:14 AM

@321/ lovelost: "They only see the Others from about the waist down. In both these scenes, the little boy is carrying a teddy bear."

In the Tailies arc, it showed us other 815 survivors. I always thought they also showed us "Other Others," a band of children (Lord of the Flies) who were not part of Ben's group. That's why the Others were fixated on children (Walt, Emma, Zach) because the island's children were a different band, who rejected their parents or adults. With the arrival of the blond Jungle boy and the dark haired boy at the temple, we may be getting back to who that group of children means to the island.

#328. Posted by: welh at April 3, 2010 10:18 AM

Mizzed: The em energy is what fuels Smokey...that has the ring of truth!

I wonder if an initial contact with the em energy is what "stole" MIB's body? Jacob and MIB as children playing together, Jacob pushes MIB into a deep chasm and zap. If Desmond had been more immersed in the em of the implosion, perhaps he would have lost his body too. Instead he has been altered in ways we don't yet understand.

I completely agree that the island mythology represents only an attempt to understand the phenomenon of the island.

As the swan corked the electro-magnetism, so does the island cork Smokey. I like it.

So then I was thinking, what affect does water have on electro-magnetism or visa versa...and I came across this interesting sentence wikipedia:
"If a powerful magnet (such as a supermagnet) is covered with a layer of water (that is thin compared to the diameter of the magnet) then the field of the magnet significantly repels the water. This causes a slight dimple in the water's surface that may be seen by its reflection." That's exactly what we saw from the helicopter, a dimple in the ocean where the island use to be.

#329. Posted by: undauntid at April 3, 2010 10:31 AM

ABC is running a couple of sneak peeks now.

#330. Posted by: davidrh at April 3, 2010 11:07 AM

#321. lovelost & #324. lostlove: Other Others (?) single file in the jungle:

I'm almost positive that it was Eko & Jin that hid in the bushes rather than Sayid & Jin. I'm also pretty sure that the teddy bear was the big tip-off that the kids were Emma & Zack, as we saw the bear w/them on the beach w/the Tailies in S2, & then again in a Temple scene this season.

And I just have to note the coincidence of your names...you wouldn't be Jacob & MIB in disguise, by any chance? ; >

#325. Mizzed: Smokey as manifestation of EM:

I like this line of thought...very interesting, especially how it explains Smokey becoming more "solid" & able to actually interact physically w/the people on the island; e.g., carrying Aaron away from Claire.

#329. undauntid: EM & Desmond:

The water/magnet interaction is intriguing...I did not know that. The idea of the island physically moving has always bothered me, so perhaps masking the EM just masked the island? Random thought: does the island in the Alt-timeline end up underwater physically because of a massive overdose of EM? Perhaps the Frozen Donkey Wheel controls the amount of EM & only releases the amount needed to hide the island from view.

Speaking of which, I forget whether it was Christian or Ben who said that whoever turned the FDW couldn't return to the island, but he was either mistaken or lying, as both Ben & Locke are back on the island, albeit in Locke's case as FLocke.

As far as Desmond being exposed to a huge amount of EM in the Swan's implosion, perhaps that would explain why he lost all of his clothes & Jack, Kate, et al., didn't lose theirs when Jughead was set off. Aside from setting up a funny scene w/Hurley & starting the idea of the Hot Scots Replicator, I couldn't figure out the point of having Des lose his duds in the first place.

I hope you all everybody is having the same lovely weather that we're enjoying in upstate NY...unbelievable for so early in April! : )

#328. welh: What do children mean to/on the island:

I agree; it's one of the three questions I'd really like to have answered before The End.

#331. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 3, 2010 11:38 AM

I was just watching clips on ABC.com and saw the exchange between Flocke and the blonde kid in the jungle. The kid says, "You cannot break the rules" and Flocke responds, "Don't tell me what I cannot do."

Hearing the boy reference the rules and hearing Flocke's response really struck me as incredibly juvenile. And that led me to this: They are indeed brothers, MIB and Jacob. In an earlier post I suggested that Jacob might have pushed MIB into a chasm of electromagnetism which resulted in MIB's losing his body. But now I wonder if MIB, who doesn't like being told what he cannot do, broke a rule set down by his parents and ventured into a place he was forbidden to go. It might be that he was egged on by Jacob to do it which explains MIB blaming Jacob for his current predicament.

I know others have suggested that if there are rules, there might be a third entity responsible for making the rules. Alais, was it you who suggested a while back that the entity responsible for the rules could be Mom?
That is beginning to feel right.

#332. Posted by: undauntid at April 3, 2010 12:16 PM

@325, Mizzed: I like a lot of what you're proposing. And it raised some new questions. :) If the fertility problem is a novelty, does that mean it is just coincidence that the four toed statue turned out to be of a fertility goddess? The statue was around long before the Incident. Or perhaps before the Incident the Island was a fertile place instead of a barren one. I guess the question is, was the statue build as a thank-you offer to Tawaret or a as plea?


@328, welh: Wasn't the boy carrying the bear during the Tailies arc the Taily boy? Didn't we see him with his bear just after the tail end's crash on the beach? I might be misremembering.
....
Never mind, thank you Alaïs_Longthought @ 331


@329, undauntid: "So then I was thinking, what affect does water have on electro-magnetism or visa versa"

I'd say that would depend on what the situation is exactly. What kind of em, what kind of water even. Pure water is a poor conductor of electric current, but with some salt in it, it becomes a good conductor. As you mentioned, a strong magnet might polarize the water. What else...? In visible light you see it and it reflects and refracts light on its surface with, for example, air. Shooting X-rays at it you might be able to excite the molecules. Lots of fun with em and water. I'm sure there are dozen more things you can do with it.

@331, Alaïs_Longthought: "As far as Desmond being exposed to a huge amount of EM in the Swan's implosion, perhaps that would explain why he lost all of his clothes & Jack, Kate, et al., didn't lose theirs when Jughead was set off"

You've lost me here. How would that explain Des's lack of clothing?

"I agree; it's one of the three questions I'd really like to have answered before The End."

During would be fine too. :)

#333. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 3, 2010 12:22 PM

#332. undauntid: "Mom" setting the rules:

It wasn't me who thought of that, but when you mentioned it, the first thing that came to mind was The Year Without a Santa Claus, w/Mother Nature & her two quarreling boys, Heat Miser & Snow Miser. ; > ; > ; >

#333. Plain Simple: Des's clothes (or lack thereof):

I don't have any explanation for why EM would cause Des to lose his clothes...I was just speculating as to why Des lost his clothes & the Losties didn't, & wondering if, as undaunted had said, Des got an extra-strong dose & that was the difference. Maybe all it was intended to do was to set up that scene w/Hurley... : )

#334. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 3, 2010 12:30 PM

#333 Plain Simple" "In visible light you see it and it reflects and refracts light on its surface with, for example, air."

I wonder if this is the light phenomenon Faraday referred to when he first arrived on the island. I can't remember his exact observation, but it was along the lines of "mighty peculiar light on this island."

#335. Posted by: undauntid at April 3, 2010 12:31 PM

Palin simple: "Pure water is a poor conductor of electric current"

Is that why Smokey disappears when it rains?

#336. Posted by: undauntid at April 3, 2010 12:37 PM

MIB and electromagnetism, hmmmmm:

The Lost X-Men, starring:

Smokey as Magneto
Jacob as Professor Xavier
Ben as Iceman
Charlie as Pyro
Sayid as Wolverine
Kate as Rogue
Mrs. Hawking as Dr. Grey
Sun as Storm
Jin as Toad
Lapidus as Sabretooth
Miles as Kid Omega
Faraday as Beast
MIB as Mystique
Widmore as Senator Kelly
And of course Mikhail as Cyclops

With special guests The Fantastic Four:

Jack as Mister Fantastic
Hurley as The Thing
Claire as Invisible Girl
Sawyer as The Human Torch

**************************

#326. Posted by: Christina
YOU are the next canidate :)

AAAUUUUGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

#337. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 3, 2010 1:19 PM

@335, undauntid: "I wonder if this is the light phenomenon Faraday referred to when he first arrived on the island."

I assumed at the time it was somehow supposed to be connected to the strange EM properties of the Island. I don't think we will ever get an explanation for what these properties are supposed to be, if TPTB even have a clear idea themselves, so I just assumed that was it. Nowadays `we' can construct a lot of different metamaterials that have interesting interactions with em waves: superlensing, cloaking etc. Perhaps the Island didn't move at all and was `just' cloaked. Perhaps strong localized em fields on the Island make the atmosphere behave locally as a metamaterial. No clue if that is even remotely feasible, even in the best of controlled circumstances.

@336, undauntid: "Palin simple: "Pure water is a poor conductor of electric current"
Is that why Smokey disappears when it rains?"
I doubt it. Rain is as purely water as I am related to a Palin, either of the intentionally or unintentionally hilarious kind. Well, perhaps a bit more pure.

#338. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 3, 2010 2:06 PM

i am glad the martin keamy character is dead(again),
i find it so difficult to understand what he is saying,perhaps they could have subtitles for those of us who dont speak fluent "goon",as for the resurrection of mikhail for this episode,
an eye patch wont help him with the hole jin put in his head,
it was a nice touch however to see these two characters who had no previous association with each other as fellow mobsters.
changing the subject slightly:
i mentioned a few weeks ago about not buying LOST via domus game for the ps3 after reading very,very poor reviews for it,
i recently spotted the game pre-owned for just a few pounds at a game store i use,
being the curious guy that i am, i just HAD to see how bad this game actually was,
i completed it within a few days & was tempted to build a fire to burn it when i was done with it so that no other LOST fans or gamers could be offended by it but decided instead to trade it & recoup a few quid,
apologies to the poor sod who buys it from the shop where i traded it!

#339. Posted by: san at April 3, 2010 3:25 PM

@333/Plain Simple: "If the fertility problem is a novelty, does that mean it is just coincidence that the four toed statue turned out to be of a fertility goddess? The statue was around long before the Incident."

Well the island quickly solved Jin's little sperm problem, so it may well have been the Club Viagra of the Ancient World....

The problem isn't fertility, as women have repeatedly been shown as becoming pregnant on the island, and the island's unique energies supposedly create a scenario for men of "sperm on steroids".

Instead, it's an infection or disease issue post-conception, and only in the 2nd trimester. Per Juliet, "the mother's immune system is triggered. The white blood cell count plummets. It's like the … immune system turns on the fetus."

Since radiation and chemotherapy can create a reduction in white blood cells, and since this happened post-Incident, I'm going with the diseased wombs as a Smokey-releated/EM discharge problem.

If the pregnancy issue happened years after the Incident, then another cause may have been the purge and the gas discharge- soldiers exposed to mustard gas in WWI were shown to have much lower than normal white blood cell counts.

If that's the case, then the preganancy problems can be seen as punishment for the Others committing genocide on Dharma, especially if Dharma was brought to the island by Jacob.

Anyway, I thought initially that Tawaret was an odd choice for the statue, but given her dual role as fertility goddess and protector against evil, it now seems like a more inspired selection.

#340. Posted by: Mizzed at April 3, 2010 3:45 PM

This sucks! They still have NOT put the enhanced versions on line (for Richard's episode and the package). I wonder if they even plan to do that....

#341. Posted by: Christina at April 3, 2010 4:19 PM

@307 welh Why is Ms. Hawking so obtuse and cryptic? Why doesn't she just explain a few things to the O6? Because she's the kind of person who sends her son off to the island so she can kill him. She and Widmore are power junkies and I think we are well advised to not believe a thing they say. Their manipulation of Locke drove him to suicidus interruptus.

#342. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 5:23 PM

What gives with the little boy that makes MIB so nervous. Was it Sawyer who also saw him? As I recall, he seemed to be sprouting up Walt-like. Is there some significance to this? If nothing then this is one of the most irritating red herrings since the picture on the Abbott's desk.

#343. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 5:26 PM

And as for Desmond pushing the button as the most important thing he will do in his life, it may be that it is the most important thing in Ms. Hawking's little universe that Desmond will do. And her little interaction with him, certainly messed up his subsequent life. Maybe she is also MIB's crazy trigger-happy mother as well as Daniel Faraday's. Which leads me to wonder if there is some deep connection between MIB and Daniel Faraday.

#344. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 5:37 PM

And is there a connection between Faraday giving Desmond the message to deliver to Faraday's mother? How did Faraday know that Desmond would be successful in escaping the island and the mercenaries on the boat and thus be able to deliver said message? And is that why Desmond got shanghaied (I assume he didn't come willingly. Or maybe that was Desmond's little Charlie that MIB saw standing in the jungle and that's what Widmore & Hawking used to get him to go back.

#345. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 5:44 PM

I've had too much coffee. Time for the martini titration.

#346. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 5:45 PM

fluent "goon"
#339. Posted by: san

A+ for phraseology!

#347. Posted by: davidrh at April 3, 2010 6:51 PM

#346. August Paul: Martini titration:

LOL! And inquiring minds want to know, vodka or gin?

I wonder what they drank on the island if they didn't like beer?

#348. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 3, 2010 7:29 PM

Okay, so I'm thinking about the relationship between alt-reality and island time (I'm totally on-side with Keamy's mumbled reference to the island on this episode).

It seems as though our alternate reality is making good on whatever end/fate we've come to know for our characters (one-eyed Mikhail, Keamy dies, Kate's a fugitive, Jack has to sort out his daddy issues...)

What if the 2 realities have to somehow balance each other out? We could look for a kind of parallel resolution to each character's dilemma in each. Example: Doctor Linus seemed to have an ending note to it for alt-reality Ben. He winds up being essentially a good guy doing what's best for Alex (sure, by manipulating others, but hey that's why we love him). Case closed. Now, how will island Ben's story balance / parallel this?

This can be interpreted a couple ways: either the two realities have similar fates in store for each character ... OR... the two realities sort of "balance" one another out to a zero sum (as in white rock/black rock, good/evil, faith/reason, take your pick).

And these scenarios aren't really mutually exclusive, either.

The 2 Hurleys illustrate it (bad luck/good luck, but essentially a good guy through and through). Both Sawyer's have got revenge issues and he's a lonely guy, the balance being cop vs. con-man. Sayid seems to be well on his way to becoming a kind of ambiguous nice guy/assassin-zombie in each reality, and Ben's a creepy bug-eyed manipulator to the core, regardless of his vocation.

It gets back to that backgammon game Locke and Walt played in the oh-so-simple days of Season 1. White and black kind of leapfrogging over one another, neither can advance without the other advancing, too.

If that's too much philosophical yin and yang, I'll settle for an extended dharma van chase scene. Just a suggestion.

Oh and by the way, Keamy said "Dan's friend, the Russian guy..." Who's Dan?

#349. Posted by: goteamvincent at April 3, 2010 7:47 PM

Question: Why did the chicken canoe to Hydra Island?

a) To get the FLocke off the island.

b) That crazy chick with the wild hair keeps staring and sharpening her knife.

c) Getting nervous about Hurley’s recurring conversation with the ghost of Mr. Cluck.

d) The Smoke Monster keeps looking at it square in the beak.

e) Kate jealous of plump, juicy breasts.

f) Tired of Sawyer’s nicknames – 'Nugget' and 'Cordon Bleu'.

g) Biggest chicken on the island, Jack, getting territorial.

h) Sayid needs a ‘wingman’.

===================

Answer: h). The chicken, a former member of the Elite Poultry Guard, is proficient in the ancient martial art of Kung Pao.

#350. Posted by: Mona L at April 3, 2010 9:17 PM

@347 davidrh expounded:

>>fluent "goon"
>>#339. Posted by: san

>A+ for phraseology!

Translations available: See "Goon, for Fun and Profit"; Sellers, P; Secombe, H; and Milligan, S; G.B.; 1953

#351. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 3, 2010 9:18 PM

@346 Alaïs_Longthought Tonight, gin, Beefeaters, heavy on the juniper berries bouquet. Mellow now. Time to retire, let the youngsters have the night.

#352. Posted by: August Paul at April 3, 2010 9:28 PM

@300. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought - Pagecarl always calls her Dauntless. I tell him he's cute when he's senile.
My husband is on a special exchange program for work; I took a leave of absence. We've here for 6 mos, going home in 3 wks. The internet here is terrible & the downloads are frustrating, but I didn't get the V popups that everyone complained about. :)

#353. Posted by: hurling at April 3, 2010 9:38 PM

@309 lostncyberspace observed:

>Cecil @301 - LOL Just about choked on my coffee!

Oh, you thought I was kidding? Nope, literal fact. In fact we got two at a local thrift shop for $10 total, and both are still working fine three years later. No HD, but what do you want for $5?

#354. Posted by: Cecil at April 3, 2010 9:51 PM

G'day Hurling. True that, Pagecarl always called me dauntless. I had that name for about 2 hours which I had forgotten until you reminded me.

#355. Posted by: undauntid at April 3, 2010 11:13 PM

@354 Cecil

No I knew you where serious...Still a little new to this posting and getting a point across. I shop for the same kind of bargins so maybe I should have I was LOL all the way to the bank -- make that the *piggy bank* when I go shopping :)

#356. Posted by: lostncyberspace at April 3, 2010 11:47 PM

All I care about is Lost.

http://tinyurl.com/yfkyyxy

#357. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 4, 2010 1:56 AM

Not that it matters, but the reason that Jin's 25K was confiscated is because he failed to declare it when entering the country. "If you want it back, you're going to have to fill out the necessary paper work." I'm only pointing this out because someone above said that Paik sent Jin and Sun to the US knowing that they'd lose the month and that Sun would resort to her secret account... truth is, Paik had no way of knowing that Jin would not declare the cash AND get "randomly selected"....

#358. Posted by: Skipper at April 4, 2010 6:52 AM

IF Widmore is on Team Jacob, then why didn't he save Sawyer, Kate, etc. from Flocke when they attacked the camp? It was Widmore's opportunity to get as many candidates as he could and protect them. But instead, they only grabbed Jin and left the other candidates and the weapons. I don't think Widmore is interested in helping Jacob. I think he wants to exploit the Island and he needs Jin to tell him where the EM fields are.

#359. Posted by: Skipper at April 4, 2010 6:57 AM

Skipper: Good point. It might be that the only reason Widmore is concerned about containing/neutralizing MIB is because he wants to control the island for personal gain. The fact (or assumption on our part) that if MIB gets loose there will be hell to pay is secondary to Widmore's own agenda.

That fits with my ever deepening belief that motive is as important as action in this morality tale. Perhaps motive is more important than action. Jacob as much as said so when he told Richard he didn't want to tell people what they should do, he wanted them to do it because it was the right thing to do.

If Widmore brought Desmond to the island to be sacrificed (my guess) for Widmore's personal gain...that does not bode well for Widmore's future.

So although Widmore's plan might accomplish the containment or destruction of MIB and thus save humanity, he will be held to answer for his selfish motive.

#360. Posted by: undauntid at April 4, 2010 11:36 AM

@359. Skipper: I don't think Widmore knows about the Candidates. Ben didn't. Richard didn't. He took Jin because of his Dharma connections and because he could play emotional blackmail with photos of Ji-Yeon.

#361. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 4, 2010 2:17 PM

Hello havn't posted this season but I have read all the posts.

I don't think Widmore is looking for riches at his age. He must be looking for power or extended life. I mean being "richer" for a couple of years doesn't turn people as old as Cecil or me on does it ? "joke joke"


And wish someone would come up with a good theory on the boy that tell's Flock what to do.

I also think we are missing something simple. "like the forest for the trees" thingy.

Glad to see all your posts and Mac's the greatest....

#362. Posted by: SamFin at April 4, 2010 2:27 PM

#362. SamFin: Hi! : ) Good to see you're here again...ealgumby & I were wondering where you've been.

#360. undauntid: Doing the right thing:

Like Charlie? It was the right thing to do to help his friends by freely choosing to sacrifice himself, & thus he gained redemption? Guess this is a pretty appropriate theme for today...

#363. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 4, 2010 2:46 PM

@361 FenwayBen - I don't think Widmore knows about the Candidates. Ben didn't. Richard didn't.

Well, We don’t know FOR SURE what Widmore knows, I can agree with you on that. But remember, he was very instrumental in getting Locke and the O6 back to the Island. He sent Abbadon to Locke’s rehab center and Hugo’s mental hospital. He sent the Freighter folks to the Island. He made sure Faraday went to the Island and even funded his research at Oxford. He paid for Teresa’s medical bills. He pushed Desmond to the Island as well. He was involved with Eloise in a “complicated” relationship. He knew about the Black Rock and Magnus Hanso. He knows Mr. Paik…etc. etc. etc.

Ben never had the level of knowledge and influence that Widmore has had. Ben didn’t push people to the Island - he was basically head of HR for the Others. He hired, fired, kept discipline records on people, offered retirement packages and health care, etc. Ben was more concerned with infertility, keeping Alex a virgin and his personal grudge against Widmore. Richard sacrificed his life because Jacob told him that he had a plan, but obviously Richard didn’t know the details of the plan. He had blind faith in Jacob and followed his orders.

So the level of Widmore’s involvement as compared to Ben and Richards was significant. That’s why I tend to believe that Widmore did know who the candidates are/were – even if peons Ben and Richard didn’t.

#364. Posted by: Skipper at April 4, 2010 3:12 PM

And another thing….

Richard was alllll about going to Hydra and “destroying the plane”. Jack actually thinks this is a good plan (very Locke like behavior, blowing things up). Jack agrees with Richard so much that he convinces Sun to get on board with the plan. Doesn’t Jack realize that if they destroy the plane, they too, will have no way off the island (unless Ben tells them about the FDW, or they take the outrigger and follow the correct coordinates)? Why hasn’t Ben said anything to the effect of, “hey guys, I know how to get innocent bystanders off the Island?” And why hasn’t Lapidus said anything like, “Can you get me some Dharma tools so that I can assess the damage on the plane instead of sitting here cracking smart-ass jokes?”

#365. Posted by: Skipper at April 4, 2010 3:22 PM

Welh - I wasn't exactly sure what you meant about the transcript of the numbers, but the security system at our house has a code for "away", a different one for "stay", and another one to be entered if you are being held against your will and need "help"

#366. Posted by: Sayidisn'tso at April 4, 2010 4:59 PM

Do you think the candidates could all be related. Could Richard be Hugo's great great great great grandfather? Could this be all one big family reunion that goes back 100's of years?

#367. Posted by: pebspostal at April 4, 2010 7:24 PM

i have a feeling there will be a certain amount of panic in here as the show heads toward its conclusion,
will all questions be answered, my guess is NO,
will all the main questions be answered, my hope is YES,
its all the small things we are unlikely to ever find out:
why didn't claire steal shampoo & conditioner from the dharma folks,
why does jack always look away when he's talking to someone,
can jin (who now has better english than san) sing catch a falling star (from start to finnish) in english?
so many more minor questions remain.

#368. Posted by: san at April 4, 2010 8:35 PM

@362. Posted by: SamFin "I have read all the posts."

You so rock!

BTW, did you notice the numbers add up to 108?

#369. Posted by: hurling at April 4, 2010 8:54 PM

Now that we've learned MIB is Smokey & can't leave the island - Remember when Abaddon left Hurley & we saw black smoke under the door? Do we now think this was Darlton changing their mind? It makes more sense that Smokey can't leave than that he can but there's some more elaborate ruse going on.

#370. Posted by: hurling at April 4, 2010 8:57 PM

@362 Hurling

BTW, did you notice the numbers add up to 108?

DARN that must have been the only ONE that I missed ! But, did you see the picture?

#371. Posted by: SamFin at April 4, 2010 9:08 PM

@363 Alaïs_Longthought

Thanks for noticing !

Say just curious. Does ealgumy really look like an ealgumby? "What ever that is" :)

#372. Posted by: SamFin at April 4, 2010 9:14 PM

372 SamFin asked:

>Say just curious. Does ealgumy really look like an ealgumby? "What ever that is" :)

We used to have a pretty good pic on the Lost Blog Map before Frapper withdrew the free maps. Decent looking guy with caption "My brain hurts!" (MP ref.)

BTW, glad to see you back in time for the finale'.

#373. Posted by: Cecil at April 4, 2010 9:27 PM

#372. SamFin: "Does ealgumy really look like an ealgumby? 'What ever that is' :)":

I'm probably the wrong person to ask as I'm somewhat prejudiced...Cecil says ealgumy's "a decent-looking guy," but I think he's gorgeous. And sexy. And intelligent. And.... ; )

#374. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 4, 2010 10:27 PM

@374/Alaïs_Longthought - Who is this "ealgumy" you speak of, who's all trying to look like me? Now I'm jealous ... ;) :)

#375. Posted by: ealgumby at April 4, 2010 10:34 PM

@370 Hurling: Wha? Wha? "Remember when Abaddon left Hurley & we saw black smoke under the door?" Are you making this up? Was there really black smoke under the door? It's late, I'm too tired for a martini, I need to trust this staggering piece of information.

#376. Posted by: August Paul at April 4, 2010 10:43 PM

@374 Alais: Listening to you and ealgumby is a bit like watching Sun and her buttons, which, this late in the show, made me feel a little embarrassed. Like maybe I shouldn't be watching. But truthfully, it is a delight to see people so happy.

#377. Posted by: August Paul at April 4, 2010 10:49 PM

#377. August Paul: Whoops! ; ) Thank you; we are *very* happy...but I need to remember this is a family-friendly forum! : )

#378. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 4, 2010 11:06 PM

@376 August Paul encountered:

>@370 Hurling: Wha? Wha? "Remember when Abaddon left Hurley & we saw black smoke under the door?" Are you making this up? Was there really black smoke under the door? It's late, I'm too tired for a martini, I need to trust this staggering piece of information.

Some people thought they saw black smoke at the door when Abbadon exited the mental hospital suddenly when Hurley began calling for help (when Abbadon was posing as a represenative of Oceanic and pumping Hurley for information). Me, I just thought it was a shadow on the closing door.

Similar questions were raised when Christian met Sun and Lapitas at the abandoned Dharma rec hall. Some thought there was a suggestion of black smoke in a doorway scene.

#379. Posted by: Cecil at April 4, 2010 11:10 PM

People tend to read a lot into things even when nothing's there.

#380. Posted by: FenwayBen at April 4, 2010 11:35 PM

@371. Posted by: SamFin - I DID notice the picture! Do you think we're gonna need a bigger boat?

@376. Posted by: August Paul, 379. Posted by: Cecil
I tend to miss a lot of details, but I thought it clearly looked like smoke. If someone remembers the season & episode, I could go for a rewatch.


@378. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought - Yes, because it's perfectly alright that we all drool over TV stars that we haven't got a chance of scoring (not to mention those of us who have spouses who would be quite put out), but terrible to observe real people in love. ;) Go ahead & flaunt it, I think it's great.

#381. Posted by: hurling at April 5, 2010 6:04 AM

Back to serious business... I am still struggling with where the others have come from. I assume some were left over from the Dharma initiative, who were not found wanting and didn't end up in the pit or left in their VW buses to slowly decay away. Many of the others were just background crowd scenes, but where did Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore come from? They were there in the 50's when the U.S. army brought a hydrogen bomb to the island to test and were wiped out. I have assumed that the others moved the island after that, but if some of Hawking's statements in the basement of the church (what was the Dharma station called?) the island could simply have shifted on its own cosmic tide. So were they born there? If so, how? Or was the plague of dying pregnant woman something visited only on them as punishment for committing genocide? Or was the placement of Dharmatown on some magnetic pocket (the DFW was just below) causing the plague?

Whatever, I am wondering where Charles and Eloise and the rest came from, how they survived MIB, and what their relationship to Jacob, if any, was. I presume there was some relationship because Richard, Jacob's COO, was living with them at the time. Were they all candidates? Were they part of Jacob's attempt to show MIB that humans could live in peace and harmony?

Where did Mr. Friendly come from? How much time did he spend on the island as opposed to his Manhattan pad? Or wherever.

In any event, the others were there 10 to 20 years before Dharma showed up. What were the others doing while Dharma was established and doing its research? What led the others to take over Dharmatown after the genocide and start their dealings with the outside world?

We have seen that Widmore was a vicious and ruthless fellow, even as a post-teen. How did Ben survive, let alone achieve ascendency over him? Were they being restricted in what they could or could not do by Jacob or by MIB? For that matter, where did Widmore get his horse?

Did Eloise get banned from the island at the same time as Charles or did she get kicked off some other time? Did she and Charles have an ongoing relationship after they left the island?

Finally, can someone tell me how to pronounce Dharma?

#382. Posted by: August Paul at April 5, 2010 9:49 AM

@340/Mizzed:
Per Juliet, "the mother's immune system is triggered. The white blood cell count plummets. It's like the … immune system turns on the fetus."

>>> Juliet's explanation really bothered me because it is backwards: when a person's immune system is triggered, white blood cells increase to attack an invading body.

Unless this is a really bad clue that the island is in "opposite world," the who fertility story arc appears to have dead ended.

#383. Posted by: welh at April 5, 2010 9:58 AM

@333/Plain Simple:
@328, welh: Wasn't the boy carrying the bear during the Tailies arc the Taily boy? Didn't we see him with his bear just after the tail end's crash on the beach? I might be misremembering.

>>> My original impression was that it was a line of children wandering through the jungle, oldest to youngest. I don't remember Zach with a teddy bear after the crash, but he did have one in Flocke's march to Hydra.

So if the Tailie story was to show Zach as part of the Others, the current story does not explain where are the other children? If the children were so important, why weren't they all at the temple? And why are only Zach and Emma still alive in Flocke's group?

#384. Posted by: welh at April 5, 2010 10:05 AM

@283. Posted by: berlyo [who is this guy?] ;)
re: wireless extension cords

They do have some awesome products! Glad you enjoyed!


@303. Posted by: Cecil Rose
re: Dharma Alarm Clock

Last year, they had the Star Wars Taunton sleeping bag as an April fools joke, which resulted in lots of emails from people who wanted to purchase. There was an article in the NYtimes that explains that they originally wanted to really make the product, but had problems getting the rights from Lucas to do it (as in - their communication was not returned). After the prank, Lucas reps got in touch with them and they figured it out.

Sigh - I'd also *love* to have some Dharma Jumpsuit Jammies!


@325. Posted by: Mizzed
re: Smokey may be the conscious manifestation of the EM energy on the island.

While I'm late for the party, I did want to say - Well played, good sir!
Your post did a good job of fleshing out this possibility, especially with regards to Desmond, and what makes him the "wild card" that he is. Agreed - the theory does integrate well with the shows mythology.

@329. Posted by: undauntid
@332. Posted by: undauntid
re: initial contact with the em energy is what "stole" MIB's body

I do get the feeling that it could be something like this. I'm convinced that the kid the Flocke encounters (chases) is a young Jacob, which could mean that there was a young MIB. If they turn out to be brothers, that means they both had the same crazy mother. I suspect that we will learn more about this as the series winds down. Yup - you followed the same train of thought @332! But if the EM is responsible for smokey, what is it that powers Jacob?

@362. Posted by: SamFin

Chances are, the young boy was a young Jacob. But was the spirit of Jacob what manifested this? I'm not so certain. If the brothers or multiple personality thing pans out, what if this is the work of crazy mama dearest? Call me crazy, but I think it is reasonable to think that some of the images of dead people we have seen might be the result of someone other than MIB or Jacob.

@370. Posted by: hurling
re: Now that we've learned MIB is Smokey & can't leave the island

I can't help but wonder if the whole leaving the island thing is a ruse.
Seems to be more of a sympathetic propaganda campaign to get people to help him.
The ultimate goal is to prevent the succession of Jacob's powers.


@382. Posted by: August Paul
re: where the others have come from

I really hope they explain this. If they serve Jacob, and he is the one who lets people find the island, how is it that Dharma is given access to the island? What was Richard up to for all those years prior to Dharma? Did Jacob selectively choose who could make it to the island, or did he take the non interference thing seriously?


@384. Posted by: welh

And what ever happened to the Sheriff, who branded Juliet? Was she slaughtered @Temple, or is she off island?

#385. Posted by: shikotee at April 5, 2010 10:58 AM

@385. shikotee
If they turn out to be brothers, that means they both had the same crazy mother. I suspect that we will learn more about this as the series winds down.

What if their crazy mother is the one responsible for all the whispers? Do we know what the whispers are yet? Remember when Ben took Alex from young Rousseau and told her "if you want to live, when you hear whispers you run the other way." (or something like that).

#386. Posted by: Skipper at April 5, 2010 11:58 AM

@362 SamFin

...missing something simple...


I agree with you...I keep puzzling and puzzling... now my puzzler is broke :)

#387. Posted by: lostncyberspace at April 5, 2010 12:23 PM

@386, Skipper: Turns out Lostpedia has transcripts of a lot of the whispers: http://tinyurl.com/9pu6jf

You probably knew that for the last four years at least, but it was new to me. They don't seem too coherent, they appear to be consistent with being either The Others or Smokey... I think.

#388. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 5, 2010 12:48 PM

Jin didn't know what was in the briefcase that Mr. Paik gave him.

I like the theory that Mr. Paik did this on purpose to show Sun that he is in charge.

#389. Posted by: Skulley at April 5, 2010 12:53 PM

@388 Plain Simple marvelled:


>You probably knew that for the last four years at least[whisper transcripts on Lostpedia], but it was new to me. They don't seem too coherent, they appear to be consistent with being either The Others or Smokey... I think.

Some seem to be dead people. When Sawyer walks out a whisper says "It'll come back around." - what the mane he mistakenly shot believining hm to the the real Sawyer in Australia said. Another time, as Shannon walks through the jungle we hear "Hi, Sis!" This after Boone was dead.

#390. Posted by: Cecil Rose at April 5, 2010 1:57 PM

Sorry all. I am berkyo or some reasonable facsimile of myself. I did not know I could misspell my name and have it post correctly.

#325. Mizzed: Smokey as manifestation of EM:

very interesting, especially how it explains Smokey becoming more "solid" & able to actually interact physically w/the people on the island; e.g., carrying Aaron away from Claire.

but isn't MIB in a real body when the black rock arrives?

He can hold the wine bottle and I think he put his hand on Richards shoulder. What happened to that body? Did he lose it? Did Jacob and Richard figure out out to imprison him (in the dark haired body) in the Cabin? So he was just smokey and various apparitions? reducing his powers? and then when he was freed from the cabin, he goes to Hydra island and waits for the Ajira plane to arrive and takes over John's body that he is stuck with because the real John is buried?

#329. undauntid: EM & Desmond:

The water/magnet interaction is intriguing...I did not know that. The idea of the island physically moving has always bothered me,

A friend who does not watch Lost was listening to my daughter and I discuss things. She said there is a quantum theory that Light (Faraday was interested in the light being different on the island)acts like a wave AND a point at the same time. And that things, like a sock, is made up of quantum stuff that is in the sock but also in a chair and maybe the table and a banana in south America all at the same time. That non quantum physics is based on locality and quantum can be anywhere? So maybe that's why the island is sometimes here and there. Just thought I'd share this.

#391. Posted by: berkyo at April 5, 2010 2:14 PM

#388. Posted by: Plain Simple

Oh, no, I didn't know they were on Lostpedia. Just looked at a few of the transcripts and I guess it's not Flock's mom after all. It was a nice try - it is Monday and everyone knows that Monday is the day I start pulling things out of my arse and try to force them into the storyline. :P

Hey, at least I got you to reply to two of my posts!! It's gonna be a good day after all!!
XO, S.

#392. Posted by: Skipper at April 5, 2010 2:53 PM

#388. Posted by: Plain Simple

Oh, no, I didn't know they were on Lostpedia. Just looked at a few of the transcripts and I guess it's not Flock's mom after all. It was a nice try - it is Monday and everyone knows that Monday is the day I start pulling things out of my arse and try to force them into the storyline. :P

Hey, at least I got you to reply to two of my posts!! It's gonna be a good day after all!!
XO, S.

#393. Posted by: Skipper at April 5, 2010 2:54 PM

Why doesn't Wiidmore simply erect his fancy anti-smokey pylons around Flocke?
He knows he's on the other island, there should be plenty or room to box him in next to the sea.

#394. Posted by: Mat,UK at April 5, 2010 3:09 PM

Widmore! Not the Nintendo version!

#395. Posted by: Mat,UK at April 5, 2010 3:13 PM

how did the whole smokey alarm system come into play? I presume smokey was always a thread but while they were building this large system why didn't smokey just kill them all? Who figured out that some sonic fence would hold him back? Was smokey ever able to leave the island and that was how they built this sonic fence? I just don't get how he would just sit there.

Also remember when Faraday first got to the island the first thing he did was go that building and turn off the chemical system. What was that about?

#396. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 5, 2010 3:19 PM

I meant threat not thread.

#397. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 5, 2010 3:20 PM

#381. hurling: "Flaunting it": Thanks! : )

BTW, I hope you've been having a great time Down Under...we've got friends in Canberra that we plan to visit someday (i.e., when time & money coincide). ; )

#384. welh: Line of kids:

It's been long enough ago that I can't remember for sure, but I thought that most of the single-file-group that Eko & Jin observed were adults, not kids. And I think it was Emma who was holding the bear after the Oceanic crash, but again, am not sure. In any case, I think Emma & Zack are the only kids on the island at present.

#385. shikotee: Isobel the Sheriff:

Lostpedia says that she's dead, as stated by TPTB after S3. There're no specifics given as to how or exactly when she died, though it's implied that she might have died as part of the Battle on the Beach.

#398. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought at April 5, 2010 3:37 PM

Why can't Smoky pick up a rock, throw it, and knock down the Sonic Death Fence pylons? Or chunk 'em at people's heads?

Stabbing him and shooting doesn't seem to do much damage...what's he afraid of? Wedgies? Purple nurples? Pink bellies? What's Smoky's kryptonite? Other than that ash and mud-covered hot chicks?

Oh wait...mud-covered hot chicks...that's MY kryptonite...never mind.

#399. Posted by: ransomjackson at April 5, 2010 4:28 PM

A late Easter present for Bunnylover:

http://bit.ly/dcHC8k

or just click on my name...

#400. Posted by: Cecil at April 5, 2010 4:38 PM

@399/ransomjackson - "Why can't Smoky pick up a rock, throw it, and knock down the Sonic Death Fence pylons? Or chunk 'em at people's heads?"

Great question ... he did same to knock Bram out of the ash circle. He also seems able to rise up off the ground pretty far to fling people around, snatch pilots out of airplane cockpits, and pluck naughty sailors from below deck of the Black Rock ... why can't he just reach over the sonic fence barrier? I'll even grant the theory that he needs to touch the gound, but we've still seen him extended pretty high up; so how high does the sonic fence force field go up off the ground? Hmm, we saw the Losties scale it way back when, so apparently not any higher than the pylons.

Already anticipating the "there's no point in saying 'it doesn't make sense' when nothing on the show makes sense" reply from somebody, or getting the "but that would be ridiculous" Sawyer quote thrown back at me ... but I still say it doesn't make *consistent* sense, although many people will think that's nitpicking. Whatever. If nothing has to make ANY sense, then what's the freaking point of speculating about *anything* on the show?

But I relent ... just don't expect it to make sense. Accept it; it is what it is. The sonic fence keeps Smokey out, end of story.

#401. Posted by: ealgumby at April 5, 2010 4:58 PM

@401: by Why the sonic fence keeps Smokey out is the clue to What Smokey is.

#402. Posted by: welh at April 5, 2010 5:41 PM

@398. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought - Yes, it's been great fun. Expensive & far to visit everything, but we've seen a good bit. You can see all of Canberra in a day, but it's just a few hrs drive to the Blue Mountains & Sydney.

#403. Posted by: hurling at April 5, 2010 6:25 PM

@396. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL
re: sonic fence defense

Yeah - I'm curious as to how Dharma figured out both the need and the way to implement this defense system. I almost get the feeling that smokey was AWOL at some points. This at least seems implied via Richard's encounter with Flocke - did they really not bump into each other in the 140+ years?


@398. Posted by: Alaïs_Longthought
re: Isobel the Sheriff

Sniff - sniff
Isobel - we hardly knew ya!
Ya deserved more than an off screen redshirt death!
Case closed!

@399. Posted by: ransomjackson
re: mud-covered hot chicks

Who would have thought that smokey and I have the exact same weakness?
And now that you all know - don't anyone dare exploit this..... unless I deserve it........ which......... is always....... so do it.......... PLEASE! ;)

@399. Posted by: ransomjackson
@401. Posted by: ealgumby
re: the limitations of smokey

In the case of Bram, didn't smokey slam itself into a support beam, which caused structure collapse, which caused Bram to move? What have we seen smokey touch/move? Obviously - humans. Trees. Anything else? Could he be limited to contact with organic materials?

@402. Posted by: welh
re: Why the sonic fence keeps Smokey out is the clue to What Smokey is

Bum-Bum-Buuuuuuuuuuum! (Dramatic mysterious sound of revelation)
Who woulda thought that Vincent's dog whistle had the ability to stop smokey! ;)

#404. Posted by: shikotee at April 5, 2010 6:57 PM

OK here's another theory. If Jacob stole the MIB's body and humanity sometime before Richard arrived, what if Jacob LITERALLY stole his body - and what we see as Jacob is really something wearing MIB's body?

Would that have anything to do with MIB being stuck in his John Locke suit upon the death of Jacob ('s body)?

I know, too many Cadbury eggs, jelly beans and Peeps.

#405. Posted by: glostover at April 5, 2010 11:36 PM

Oh yeah, Duke wins. But don't kid yourself, the whole nation will be talking about BUTLER tomorrow!


That is, until LOST comes on.

And then, IT'S A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME, SPORT!

#406. Posted by: davidrh at April 5, 2010 11:46 PM

Oh - if that last minute 3 pointer would have gone in. That would have been the best ending in history.

Now, onto LOST.........

#407. Posted by: dk at April 6, 2010 12:32 AM

@399 ransomjackson
Why can't Smoky pick up a rock, throw it, and knock down the Sonic Death Fence pylons? Or chunk 'em at people's heads?

....Or pick up a gun for that matter and shoot Widmore since he was standing right in front of him.

*****

@402 Welh
by Why the sonic fence keeps Smokey out is the clue to What Smokey is.

Two negatives make a positive. I think that Smokey has the same charge that the pylons are giving off - therefore, repelling him.

#408. Posted by: Skipper at April 6, 2010 12:37 AM

does anyone remember seeing Myles' face when Sayid died... I'm sure that Sayid's dead body said something as Myles can listen to the dead.... am I the only one believing that Myles knows something?

#409. Posted by: milesawayfrommyles at April 6, 2010 1:08 AM

does anyone remember seeing Myles' face when Sayid died... I'm sure that Sayid's dead body said something as Myles can listen to the dead.... am I the only one believing that Myles knows something?

#410. Posted by: milesawayfrommyles at April 6, 2010 1:08 AM

I just wanted to say that the Doctor Who season premiere episode was bloody fantastic! I would highly recommend it to anyone and everyone.

Looking forward to the remainder of the season!

My understanding is that it is debuting in the US on April 17th, on BBC America. Naturally - the episode can also be found on the interwebs.

#411. Posted by: shikotee at April 6, 2010 9:20 AM

@408 Skipper:
I have forgotten most of my high school physics, but I think that all waves, whether EM, magnetic or sound, can collide, disperse, refract or interfere with each other in the same medium (air). I suppose the show theory is that the sonic fence produces sound waves which interferes or disperses Smokey's electromagnetic wave form.

#412. Posted by: welh at April 6, 2010 10:17 AM

No one has mentioned Ack's review yet. She's always funny but this week she was exceptionally funny. I snorted aloud several times!! Enjoy! Now outside to enjoy the BEAUTIFUL weather!

For those who aren't familiar, you can find it at www.theackattack.net

#413. Posted by: lost2theworld at April 6, 2010 10:26 AM

From Faraday to Jacob this show has taken a weird turn. Faraday started to explain the whole island in scientific terms and the show shifted away from the whole Religulous theme and then this season it is 100% religulous based. Annoying. I enjoyed the scientific explanations better.

#414. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 6, 2010 11:13 AM

Errr....it looks like Sawyer lying "dead" in the sneak peak for tonight's ep right after the words "Lives Lost". That doesnt bode well for this fan fave. I will be one really unhappy camper if they kill off Sawyer. We have all heard the doomsday info about all of the pending deaths but Sawyer? Better not be....

#415. Posted by: GatorGal at April 6, 2010 12:19 PM

Question: how does Jin know that Flocke isn't the real Locke? Jin never left the island so are we to assume that Jack told Jin (Sawyer too) back in the time-flashing 70s?

#416. Posted by: GatorGal at April 6, 2010 12:32 PM

@415

Could it be that when juliet shot someone on the other outrigger that she shot future Sawyer. Wouldn't that suck!

#417. Posted by: ALEX ANGEL at April 6, 2010 12:49 PM

I don't trust those promos. Last week it looked like Sun was lying dead in a promo but she didn't die in the episode. Sawyer will be fine. Maybe.

ANMF? (Myles' face?)

#418. Posted by: Crispy Seaplanes at April 6, 2010 1:18 PM

Woah!

Who be playing with de fonts?

7pm once more here in Toronto (which I concede is less Canuckerville than Vancouver)!

#419. Posted by: shikotee at April 6, 2010 1:32 PM

#414... soooo true...

#420. Posted by: more lost at April 6, 2010 2:03 PM

Had tp walk over to another building in the state govenment complex for a briefing a few daya ago. It was a beautiful spring day with all the trees in flower, so i detoured trhough a little park with benches ont he way back to sit and make a cell phone call.

As I entered the park, there was a man walking toward me pushing a small baby carriage. As I slowed to take a look at the baby, I saw that in the carriage instead were two full grown bunnies, one all white, one all black. I was too taken aback to ask if one was named "Jacob" and the other "MIB", or why they were being taken for a stroll.

#421. Posted by: Cecil at April 6, 2010 2:41 PM

If we use the "cork in the bottle" analogy, maybe the ALT universe, where the island is seen to be under water, is the equivalent of the under side of the cork.

#422. Posted by: Paul C at April 6, 2010 2:55 PM

Once the island emerges again, do we smell the island to see if the wine of evilness has soured?

#423. Posted by: Cecil at April 6, 2010 3:07 PM

@ #206. Posted by: Plain Simple

"Which reminds me... Smoke on the Water, Fire in the Sky...And when the hatch imploded, didn't the sky turn a Deep Purple?"

Yes!!! I said the same thing to my wife, and she called me a nerd. Good to know I'm not alone.

#424. Posted by: Hurley's Beard at April 6, 2010 4:14 PM

Possible spoiler: tonight's episode listing states that Desmond wakes up to find himself on the island. Oh, my.

One of the unanswered questions is why on earth does everyone traveling to the island via submarine needs to be knocked out? There are no windows on the sub.

#425. Posted by: welh at April 6, 2010 5:00 PM

#173. Posted by: stephjane Why does Jack have a son?
#293. Posted by: goteamvincent Can someone remind me - does island Jack have a son in the real world, or is the son only in the alt-reality?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I forget the episode/season, when jack is on the bridge...he ends up in the hospital and they call his ex-wife (was it Sarah), she shows up at the hospital as he's never changed his emergency contact. I believe they allude to the fact that she is now with someone else (she had an affair at one time too) she's clearly pregnant at the hospital. It's not addressed by anyone in the show but maybe in the alt-time, Jack had a child with her.

#426. Posted by: penny'sboat at April 6, 2010 5:28 PM

Anyone think we're gonna learn about Desmond's parents this week?

#427. Posted by: Scooby-Dude at April 6, 2010 7:55 PM

Cecil @390 said "Some seem to be dead people. When Sawyer walks out a whisper says "It'll come back around." - what the mane he mistakenly shot believining hm to the the real Sawyer in Australia said. Another time, as Shannon walks through the jungle we hear "Hi, Sis!" This after Boone was dead."

This could be Smokey of course.


@391 berkyo fell into the trap of using the word "quantum" to explain away the Mystery of the Day: "And that things, like a sock, is made up of quantum stuff that is in the sock but also in a chair and maybe the table and a banana in south America all at the same time."

Uhhmm... no. Sorry. I'm thinking if I can explain why this explanation does not work, but apart from giving an introduction to quantum mechanics (which other people surely have done better in other places than I ever could) I'm not sure where to start. This just doesn't make sense. It's vaguely reminiscent of quantum entanglement (Wikipedia has lots of info), but not really. Sorry, I wish I could be more of a help there.

Well, even if it doesn't make sense in real science, who knows what TPTB are thinking.

@393, Skipper: "Hey, at least I got you to reply to two of my posts!! It's gonna be a good day after all!!"

Glad to have helped you out there.

@404, shikotee: "This at least seems implied via Richard's encounter with Flocke - did they really not bump into each other in the 140+ years?"

Are you referring to Flocke's remark to Richard on the beach about seeing him out of chains? This could very well have served two purposes: Letting Richard know that Flocke is MIB and telling him that he's finally free from Jacob.


@412, welh: "I have forgotten most of my high school physics, but I think that all waves, whether EM, magnetic or sound, can collide, disperse, refract or interfere with each other in the same medium (air). I suppose the show theory is that the sonic fence produces sound waves which interferes or disperses Smokey's electromagnetic wave form."

I hate to be the physics police here, but nope again. First, EM stands for electromagnetism, so you don't have to mention "magnetic" separately after that. Second, sound are pressure waves in air, meaning that literally the air is a little compressed in places when sound waves travel through it. EM waves don't have a medium like that (once upon a time people thought it had, they called it ether, but experiments have shown that that doesn't exist). That's the reason why light does travel through space (where there's no air) and sound doesn't. Now granted, if you apply a very strong electric field to a batch of air, perhaps you can ionize the air and somehow change the speed of sound in the ionized air? Probably, I'm not sure. But the other way around, using sound waves to change the em properties of air.... don't think so. Unless Smokey is made of piezoelectric material, perhaps than you can think up something fun. :)


@415, GatorGal: The promo's usually make things seems different than they are, but still, perhaps you could put up some spoiler warnings next time? Thanks.

@416: "Question: how does Jin know that Flocke isn't the real Locke? Jin never left the island so are we to assume that Jack told Jin (Sawyer too) back in the time-flashing 70s?"

Sawyer knew. I guess he told Jin. Like I mentioned in an earlier post: Yay! The Losties are communicating with each other!

@419, shikotee: As a real temporary Vancouverite I thank you. :)

@424: Hurley's Beard: "Yes!!! I said the same thing to my wife, and she called me a nerd. Good to know I'm not alone."

Being in the same category as me hardly qualifies as a point against being a nerd.

***

Ten minutes to go to the new episode. Bring it on!

#428. Posted by: Plain Simple at April 6, 2010 9:51 PM

Well, it looks like I am last.

Just want to say that if Mac can make sense out of this episode, he should get some kind of an award.

I think we learned A LOT!

But I'll be damned If I can think it out straight.

#429. Posted by: berkyo at April 6, 2010 10:18 PM

Finally . . . A "WOW" EPISODE!!!!!

#430. Posted by: davidrh at April 6, 2010 10:35 PM

Shhhhhhhhhhh!

You must wait until X-mas before you open your presents! ;)

#431. Posted by: shikotee at April 6, 2010 10:44 PM